From owner-glass Tue Oct 1 08:17:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v86YL-0000Ufa; Tue, 1 Oct 96 08:16 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Toby Subject: Re: Indian chief design Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Oct1.11222.0> References: <<199610010112.CAA17710@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Elizabeth and Toby: You did give sufficient clues on how to handle the client and get her input UP FRONT. After asking you to provide more clues, I can only say Thank You. That was definitely better. Peggy. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 1 08:23:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v86cN-0000VKa; Tue, 1 Oct 96 08:20 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Indian chief design Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 11:15:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct1.71548.0> References: <<1996Sep30.184917.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Joyce Moran wrote: > > Duh! yes I finally thought about surfing and came up with several great > pictures of good looking chiefs, as well as one sourpus chief with a > great looking headdress, I'm getting my brother's copy of Dancing with > Wolves, and am eagerly looking forward to receiving info from a few > other sources. The lady is vacationing in Fl for two weeks, so I have a > while now to work on it. I think this final drawing will be a composite > of many different ideas taken from many different sources? Is that > still copyright infringement, Albert? The photos I found on the net > were taken in the 1800's of the actual chiefs, wouldn't that be public > domain by now? > > I will abide by the letter of the law, but am not expecting to make an > exact copy of anything...just using these for inspiration. > > So thanks for all your help...I think we can lay this one to rest for > now. > > Garden of Glass > Joyce Moran > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the way i feel about the copyrights is this. since your reproducing it in a different medium it should'nt count. especialy since it is glass, it would look nothing like the original photo. however if you were to do the coke symbol and sell it i might worry then. here at home i have a couple of file cabinets worth of pictures from magazines, (acually my mothers, she paints), this is our refrence section when we need to find a picture of something. and when i see a photo i never think of copyrights, unless it's a famous place or picture, which anyone can identify and prove it's thier own. so i say if you find a good picture that you can use, use it, i don't think anyone would notice. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 1 10:55:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8926-0000Fna; Tue, 1 Oct 96 10:55 PDT X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: Coke and Paint: was: Indian chief design Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:55:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct1.95524.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike said the way i feel about the copyrights is this. since your reproducing it in a different medium it should'nt count. especialy since it is glass, it would look nothing like the original photo. however if you were to do the coke symbol . . . . . . Mike,Funny you should mention COKE! I just drew a Coke bottle last night, actural size so I can make my sister a Coke bottle night light. This one will be the old all green coke bottle with white paint for the lettering and the bottle will be empty. Yes, even the "curvy" bottle is copyrighted. I was toying with the idea of making another for a collector here at the office with two layers, green glass over Rootbeer colored to get the effect of a full bottle. Guess I can give them away but I can't sell them, eh? Does Anyone have any experience with the paints for use on glass? Can I get something opaque enough the do the Coca-Cola? Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 1 14:29:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8CM4-0000zJa; Tue, 1 Oct 96 14:27 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Coke and Paint: was: Indian chief design Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 17:23:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct1.132322.0> References: <<1996Oct1.95524.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > Mike said > > the way i feel about the copyrights is this. since your reproducing it > in a different medium it should'nt count. especialy since it is glass, > it would look nothing like the original photo. however if you were to do > the coke symbol . . . . . . > > Mike,Funny you should mention COKE! I just drew a Coke bottle last night, > actural size so I can make my sister a Coke bottle night light. This one > will be the old all green coke bottle with white paint for the lettering > and the bottle will be empty. Yes, even the "curvy" bottle is copyrighted. > I was toying with the idea of making another for a collector here at the > office with two layers, green glass over Rootbeer colored to get the effect > of a full bottle. Guess I can give them away but I can't sell them, eh? > > Does Anyone have any experience with the paints for use on glass? Can I get > something opaque enough the do the Coca-Cola? > > Linda Campbell > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i guess you could sell it as long as you don't call it a coca-cola bottle, or the person is'nt going to advertise for your with that bottle. however i think (i'm not a legal expert) if you made the bottle with the little coke wave they really can't prove it's their symbol. kinda like O.J. simpson saying that an orange juice company stole his name that he tried to copyright. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 1 15:57:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8Dk7-0000z3a; Tue, 1 Oct 96 15:56 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Update 1 and Thanks 1 - MSDS sheets (Health) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:31:09 +0000 Message-ID: <199610012255.XAA23321@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear ALL, Frustrated by British inertia, ignorance and "not-my-responsibility"- type attitude, I turned in desperation to ask for your help last April/May. . My Problem: My friend, Susan, forcedto take early retirement as Head of Art Department in a secondary school in UK, on grounds of ill health. She contracted asthma and lung congestion in her work-place, because her school - faced with a financial squeeze - decided that spending on computers was more important than spending money on basic hygiene, cleaning and health and safety.Hence, dust and irritants accumulated in the Art Dept accumulated from one year to the next and nobody did anything about it; not even basic cleaning. In addition, Art Dept staff was cut back person by person, year after year. My friend Susan finally succumbed; I spent 2 years nursing her, carrying her up and down stairs,and all else. Now 3 years on we are suing the school (and therefore the County).. I am putting it all together, phrasing it and "smelling out where all the catches are. Susan has seen several specialists, had a number of tests at THE Lung Hospital in the UK - The Brompton Hospital in London. The long and the short of it is, the specialists and the lawyers have agreed that provided we have documentation on all the substances used, there is a 95% certainty case. The school does not possess a single MSDS sheet on ANY material or substance used in the school by pupils and/or teachers. It's safety rep had no idea what's expected of him; sorry - he said - I am only the safety rep, because nobody else wants the job. I am too busy teaching to get involved in these issues. I am only safety rep by "default". So no joy there. So make a list of products used in "an Art Department" and then ask the manufacturers to supply the MSDS sheets. Easy, you think..... It wasn't! The ideas, suggestions, help, information, lists and goodness knows what else started pouring in from you all. With the weight of ALL you fed me with, I was able to "lean" a little more forcibly on the UK manufacturers and distributors (often of American produced products..) This afternoon, September 30th, Susan and I finally sealed up a parcel of MSDS sheets (in UK called HASAWA-sheets) and posted it to the Union Lawyers. It measured 3 inches thick! The tabular, tightly typed "Summary" sheet runs into 6 pages; of products still missing MSDS-sheets to 2 fully typed pages. It cost us $30 to send it 65 miles. It's been a marathon. I could not have achieved this without your help! Thank You , Thank You, Thank You! There is one particular person I would like to single out. She is usually up to her eye balls in work, work. She is pulled at from a multitude of directions. I have tried very hard to draw on her time as little as possible. Monona - it is you. Thank you. Thanks for your ideas, encouragements and helpful suggestions. I forwarded your "tongue-in-cheek" idea about preparing a " Press Pack" - adding no comment. Let's see what happens. YES, there will be more questions - I did say this would be a long business. Whatever questions come along, I will deal with when they happen. I know I can depend on all of you, when I am stuck. The bi-product of all of this: I have compiled a list of substances, producers and MSDS sheets used in an Art Department of a secondary school ( i.e. teaching children between 11-18). I have even listed frequency of usage. A lot of us teach, adults OR children. I will be very happy to share my research with any of you, who may require it. I know that my "angle" is British orientated, but the hazards are still the same. (And I mean REAL hazards here - not the odd cut piece of flesh or the amputated finger...).Over half of it, also shared with stained glass people, as I discovered. So let me know, if this might be useful to you... We probably won't hear a squeak out of the Union Lawyer (too busy recovering from the heart attack) for some time.. 3 inches is a lot of paper to read through....... In April/May I promised you to keep you up-dated. This is it. The pre-amble is for you guys who weren't with us then. Thanks - a thousand times Thanks. You are really a bunch of great people. Next progress report to follow probably next January.... Just Elisabeth ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 1 15:57:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8Dk7-0000sba; Tue, 1 Oct 96 15:56 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Message only, non-stained glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:31:09 +0000 Message-ID: <199610012255.XAA23318@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Malcolm Spann, Have tried to reply to your e-mail. Keeps on bouncing back as "user unknown". Had the same problem with you, before your travels, if you remember.. Will keep on trying. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 1 18:24:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8G2X-00014Za; Tue, 1 Oct 96 18:23 PDT X-Path: aol.com!ANLGlass From: ANLGlass@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: splash guard Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:22:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct1.172226.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk My splash guard was made about 7 years when we renovated our kitchen. The new appliances (dishwasher, trash compactor) came with 3 or 4 different colored panels that could be used to customize the appliance. I took 3 of the trash compactor panels and taped them together. (Just had to replace the tape this year!) When they get gunky with glass dust I just spray them off. Speaking of grinders, I had a problem recently grinding GNA. The backs of the pieces got really scratched. I assume it was from moving them across the grinder surface where there must have been glass gunk. Is this typical? Are my grinder- cleaning habits too sloppy? I do try to clean the surface before I start grinding a project, but I don't do it every day. - Marilyn Kaminski A New Light ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 1 18:27:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8G58-000111a; Tue, 1 Oct 96 18:26 PDT X-Path: aol.com!ANLGlass From: ANLGlass@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Do stepping stones scratch? Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:26:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct1.172628.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I've gotten a lot of good feedback about the stepping stones I've made, but the universal question is: "Don't they get scratched?" (Actually this comes right after "Don't they break?") I've come up with a good answer for the breaking question, but the scratching question has me stumped. (I've never had one out long enough to see how they wear.) Do they scratch? Is there some type of sealer to use that prevents or minimizes it? Or what's a good answer to the question? - Marilyn Kaminski A New Light ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 1 19:00:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8Gbo-0000x3a; Tue, 1 Oct 96 19:00 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: splash guard Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 21:55:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct1.175554.0> References: <<1996Oct1.172226.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ANLGlass@aol.com wrote: > > My splash guard was made about 7 years when we renovated our kitchen. The > new > appliances (dishwasher, trash compactor) came with 3 or 4 different colored > panels > that could be used to customize the appliance. I took 3 of the trash > compactor > panels and taped them together. (Just had to replace the tape this year!) > When they get gunky with glass dust I just spray them off. > > Speaking of grinders, I had a problem recently grinding GNA. The backs of > the pieces got really scratched. I assume it was from moving them across the > grinder > surface where there must have been glass gunk. Is this typical? Are my > grinder- > cleaning habits too sloppy? I do try to clean the surface before I start > grinding a > project, but I don't do it every day. > > - Marilyn Kaminski > A New Light > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah i have that problem too. that is just too soft, it may even be happening as you grind. i guess if it was critical that no scratches exist, (usally is) maybe if you put masking tape on the back of the glass, like a resist (only cheaper). maybe that could work. i've tried to clean the grinder but that usally does'nt help much. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 1 21:43:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8J9O-00014pa; Tue, 1 Oct 96 21:43 PDT X-Path: concentric.net!MSPANN From: "Malcolm Spann" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Message only, non-stained glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:41:19 +0000 Message-ID: <199610020442.AAA17882@cliff.cris.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk To 'Toby' (& Elisabeth) Hey there. Don't know what the problem is with the messages 'bouncing back'. The address should be: MSPANN@CRIS.COM or, perhaps: MSPANN@POP3.CONCENTRIC.NET Please try both. I've sent messages to myself (kind of vain, don't you think?) at the first, and gets to me. Don't know. If all else fails, you can reach me at my CompuServe address, which is: 102515.2265@compuserve.com Keep trying . And give Toby a bug hug for me! Malcolm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 01:51:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8N1J-0000qUa; Wed, 2 Oct 96 01:51 PDT X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Do stepping stones scratch? Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:50:20 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <9610020850.AA12895@crosfield.co.uk> References: <<1996Oct1.172628.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > I've gotten a lot of good feedback about the stepping stones I've made, but > the > universal question is: "Don't they get scratched?" > Do they scratch? Is there some type of sealer to use that > prevents or minimizes it? Or what's a good answer to the question? > > - Marilyn Kaminski Hmm. Can you scratch glass? Yes, you certainly can, as the inside of my aquarium demonstrated when I got a bit of gravel caught in the algae scrubber :-). Quartz (in various forms) is a fairly common rock, hardness 8 on the Mohs scale, and that's hard enough to scratch glass. Sealant is unlikely to help, I suspect - it'd probably be softer and easier to scratch than the glass. On the other hand, unless you're scraping a sharp pebble across it, I'd *guess* that you're more likely to see gradual wear to a semi-matt finish than deep scratches. That seems to be what's happening to the glass inlay on a design in our local market. (It's a maze/picture of Henry VIII, mainly brick, with occasional glass blocks for "jewels".) -Jerry -- _|_ Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) / | Hemel Hempstead, UK jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \_|_ jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) \__/ www.selune.demon.co.uk (soon) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 02:05:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8NEc-0000SVa; Wed, 2 Oct 96 02:04 PDT X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Coke and Paint Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:04:06 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <9610020904.AA12989@crosfield.co.uk> References: <<1996Oct1.95524.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda asked: > Does Anyone have any experience with the paints for use on glass? Can I get > something opaque enough the do the Coca-Cola? You should be able to find something opaque - maybe enamel? that's certainly opaque enough, but whether it adheres to glass... On the other hand, while that would work for something lit from the front, it'll show up black when lit from behind, which may not be what you want. If you really want white and green when backlit, you may need to go for clear glass with translucent white and translucent green paint, or white opal glass with transparent green paint. (or a more complex white/green multipiece glass design). -- _|_ Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) / | Hemel Hempstead, UK jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \_|_ jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) \__/ www.selune.demon.co.uk (soon) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 03:45:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8OnI-0000HYa; Wed, 2 Oct 96 03:44 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Coke and Paint: was: Date: 02 Oct 96 06:42:29 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct2.104229.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > the way i feel about the copyrights is this. since your reproducing it > in a different medium it should'nt count. especialy since it is glass, Hmm. Not quite, methinks. Famous sculptor (have forgotten his name, but he's very contemporary and married that Italian porn star who became an Italian politician?) used as the basis for a sculpture a photograph taken by someone else (a gaggle of puppies gathered up in someone's arms) and had his shorts sued off. Just because you produce a copyrighted, trademarked item in another medium won't protect you from the allegation of infringement, although to be honest, it's unlikely Coca-Cola's going to sue an individual for doing something on the order you're discussing. On the other hand, if you were to go into production, manufacturing thousands of the item for sale throughout the U.S. and the world, you betcha Coke'd sue. Albert __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 05:29:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8QQg-0000lJa; Wed, 2 Oct 96 05:29 PDT X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Coke and Paint: was: Indian chief design Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 08:20:54 EDT Message-ID: <961002.082812.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1996Oct1.95524.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk When creating a stained glass work from a photo or a painting, I suspect that what you are doing is creating a "derivative" work, which is still covered by copyright...but if you aren't churning out hundreds to sell, I wouldn't worry. As for using several pictures in composite, I don't know when it stops being derivative and simply becomes inspiration. As for the Coke bottle, that I believe is covered under Trademark. (So, here's a hypothetical...a client asks you to make Mickey Mouse suncatcher. Will pay, say, $40. Do you even try to get permission from Disney?) -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 05:58:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8QsI-0000NRa; Wed, 2 Oct 96 05:58 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Coke and Paint: was: Indian chief design Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610021257.IAA07536@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >When creating a stained glass work from a photo or a painting, I suspect >that what you are doing is creating a "derivative" work, which is still >covered by copyright...but if you aren't churning out hundreds to sell, >I wouldn't worry. As for using several pictures in composite, I don't >know when it stops being derivative and simply becomes inspiration. >As for the Coke bottle, that I believe is covered under Trademark. >(So, here's a hypothetical...a client asks you to make Mickey Mouse >suncatcher. Will pay, say, $40. Do you even try to get permission >from Disney?) In instances like this, you could always sell a copy of the book or pattern along with it. Not necessarily practical, but it does fall within the letter of the copyright law. Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 06:48:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8Res-0000OGa; Wed, 2 Oct 96 06:48 PDT X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!wrightk5 From: "Kristen Marie Wright" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Do stepping stones scratch? Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610021346.JAA80931@pilot03.cl.msu.edu> References: <<1996Oct1.172628.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > how they wear.) Do they scratch? Is there some type of sealer to use that > prevents or minimizes it? Or what's a good answer to the question? > Silicone sealer may help to prolong the life of the stone, but don't seal the bottom so if water does get trapped it has a way to escape kristen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 07:06:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8RwR-0000Wha; Wed, 2 Oct 96 07:06 PDT X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "',delphigl@voyager.net'" <,delphigl@voyager.net>, Subject: RE: Coke and Paint: was: Indian chief design Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:06:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct2.6659.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Stephanie, I'm not clear about what you are saying when you say sell a copy of the book or pattern with the object. How does this work? Linda Campbell >When creating a stained glass work from a photo or a painting, I suspect >that what you are doing is creating a "derivative" work, which is still >covered by copyright...but if you aren't churning out hundreds to sell, >I wouldn't worry. As for using several pictures in composite, I don't >know when it stops being derivative and simply becomes inspiration. >As for the Coke bottle, that I believe is covered under Trademark. >(So, here's a hypothetical...a client asks you to make Mickey Mouse >suncatcher. Will pay, say, $40. Do you even try to get permission >from Disney?) In instances like this, you could always sell a copy of the book or pattern along with it. Not necessarily practical, but it does fall within the letter of the copyright law. Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 07:22:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8SBs-0000eya; Wed, 2 Oct 96 07:22 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Coke and Paint: was: Indian chief design Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 10:17:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct2.61754.0> References: <<961002.082812.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > When creating a stained glass work from a photo or a painting, I suspect > that what you are doing is creating a "derivative" work, which is still > covered by copyright...but if you aren't churning out hundreds to sell, > I wouldn't worry. As for using several pictures in composite, I don't > know when it stops being derivative and simply becomes inspiration. > As for the Coke bottle, that I believe is covered under Trademark. > (So, here's a hypothetical...a client asks you to make Mickey Mouse > suncatcher. Will pay, say, $40. Do you even try to get permission > from Disney?) > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah that question still bugs me. they have that disney dook of various caracters, and it's ok to make them. does that mean that if i designed my own disney thing, would that be ok or not. or if i modified the existing pattern to something new, would that modified pattern be covered by the book? i dunno.... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 07:33:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8SMM-0000Xia; Wed, 2 Oct 96 07:33 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Sandblast resist Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:33:07 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct2.14337.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk we have a pretty good computer setup that allows us scan in any image, size it to just about any dimensions and print it back out directly onto our resist. it even works well with Microsoft Word for nice messages in different fonts, etc. the big problem is that we still have to cut the resist with knives. well, one of our customers came a few weeks ago and showed us some of his work on coffee mugs and it looked much better than anything we could have done. after some discussion, it seems that we have similar computer equipment, but the customer also has a nice x-y plotter that uses knives (rather than pens)and cuts the image out right on the resist. he says the plotter (an H-P) sells for about $5000. we have checked with all of our local used equipment dealers and no avial. anyone have one of these Hewlett-Packard plotters for sale? anything equivalent (but cheaper)? any ideas or comments welcome. Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 09:24:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8U4m-0000soa; Wed, 2 Oct 96 09:23 PDT X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Coke and Paint: was: Indian chief design (fwd) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 12:17:47 EDT Message-ID: <961002.122101.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >(So, here's a hypothetical...a client asks you to make Mickey Mouse >suncatcher. Will pay, say, $40. Do you even try to get permission >from Disney?) In instances like this, you could always sell a copy of the book or pattern along with it. Not necessarily practical, but it does fall within the letter of the copyright law. Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ And if you've designed your own Mickey...just to carry this along? (I suspect that if you tried to get permission, you'd NEVER hear back, but if you did, the answer's be "NO") ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 09:59:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8Ud5-0000sDa; Wed, 2 Oct 96 09:58 PDT X-Path: volcano.net!MCGREEVP From: "Patrick B. McGreevy" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sandblast resist Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:51:50 -0400 Message-ID: <199610021651.MAA18763@cozmo.nortel.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ... the big problem is that we still have to cut the >resist with knives. well, one of our customers came a few weeks ago and >showed us some of his work on coffee mugs and it looked much better than >anything we could have done. after some discussion, it seems that we have >similar computer equipment, but the customer also has a nice x-y plotter >that uses knives (rather than pens)and cuts the image out right on the >resist. he says the plotter (an H-P) sells for about $5000. >Mike Peck >Summit Stained Glass >summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net Don't settle for HP until you shop around. My generic cadd program lists 20 different vendors. Check with your local sign makers for opinions and local sales reps for plotters that cut vinyl. Also do a www search. Prices range from $5-10K. We focused on Gerber (www.gerber.com) and Allen Datagraph (search yahoo on allen datagraph) friction feed vinly cutters and bought an Allen Datagraph, 800 series vinyl cutter, 30" which cost ($7,400). We are very pleased and cut both stain glass and sand blast patterns. The quality of our work improved dramatically! It takes minutes to cut a perfect stencil! Pat McGreevy @ Magali's Glass Art ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 11:20:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8VtN-00010Ia; Wed, 2 Oct 96 11:19 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sandblast resist Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:16:05 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct2.18165.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" >To: mike peck >Subject: Re: Sandblast resist >X-Sender: edupjohn@spork.callamer.com >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 15:15:30 +0000 > >Mike: I am not interested in the HP equipment but I am very interested in >being able to get pre-cut sandblast designs. If this happens, let us >know. PJ from CA. > > PJ, Try Pre-Cut Patterns, 18 West 18th Street, Holland Michigan, 49423, tel:1-616-392-4415. I talked with a Lori Corbat-Appeldorn there about 3-4 months ago and she sent me a catalogue of some nice pre-cut patterns that she does. I tried a few, they were all 4 mil thick so you have to use fine abrasive, but they worked very well. But, I felt they were VERY pricy, which is why I'm still looking for alternatives. Good luck, Mike ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 11:28:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8W1M-0000oya; Wed, 2 Oct 96 11:27 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Coke and Paint: was: Indian chief design (fwd) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610021827.OAA25930@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>>(So, here's a hypothetical...a client asks you to make Mickey Mouse >>>suncatcher. Will pay, say, $40. Do you even try to get permission >>>from Disney?) >> >>In instances like this, you could always sell a copy of the book or pattern >>along with it. Not necessarily practical, but it does fall within the >>letter of the copyright law. > >I'm not clear about what you are saying when you say sell a copy of the book >or pattern with the object. How does this work? I'm saying to sell an original of the pattern or book along with the finished item. Very much similar to having a customer select a pattern and purchasing it, and then asking to make up this design for them. The end result is that only one stained glass piece has been made up for every pattern purchased. I'm not suggesting to split up any of the pattern books or portfolios and parceling them out, but to sell the entire publication intact. In the long run, it would probably be more inexpensive to contact the owner of the copyright directly and coming to an agreement if you desire to mass produce any of the designs. >And if you've designed your own Mickey...just to carry this along? >(I suspect that if you tried to get permission, you'd NEVER hear >back, but if you did, the answer's be "NO") If your original design of Mickey in anyway resembles the Disney's copyrighted design, you will still need to "pay" for using their design. I heard of a horror story where someone was selling finished items which were recognizable as Disney designs, and by law the Disney representative was able to confiscate ALL of the offending items and also sued this individual. I don't think that the answer from Disney would be no, but the royalty price would be a very high one and wouldn't be able to justify making only a couple of this particular piece. Also referring to the Coke bottle, don't forget that the shape of the Coke bottle is copyrighted, so using this shape is a copyright infringement if the proper authorization hasn't been granted. I would like to say in closing that I'm not an expert on copyright laws, but this is a frequent question and I'm learning a little at a time. If I am in anyway incorrect, *please* let me know. Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 12:38:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8X78-00012ra; Wed, 2 Oct 96 12:37 PDT X-Path: Loundy.com!David From: "David J. Loundy" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Coke and Paint: was: Indian chief design Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:16:22 -0500 Message-ID: References: <<961002.082812.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 10:17 AM -0400 10/2/96, Mike Savad wrote: >yeah that question still bugs me. they have that disney dook of various >caracters, and it's ok to make them. does that mean that if i designed >my own disney thing, would that be ok or not. or if i modified the >existing pattern to something new, would that modified pattern be >covered by the book? i dunno.... I usually don't jump into discussions so soon after signing up for a new list, but... First, if the book is not put out by or licensed by Disney, it may be an infringement in itself. Second, if it is an authorized book of Disney patterns, a reasonable interpretation is that there is an "implied license" to make the patterns contained in the book. (This would not be limited to a Disney book, but would go for any pattern book.) The argument is that by nature of the copyrighted works being in a pattern book, the purpose of which is to construct pieces of stained glass, the author is impliedly giving you permission to make the copies necessary to carry out the purpose of the book. How far these implied licenses would extend is a tough question. Implied licenses are kind of a murky area of the law-- there is very little case law that has addressed the issue. Unfortunately, it is also becoming a crucial area of copyright law, particularly in the computer context. According to U.S. case law, in order to read this message, you had to make at least one copy. If not for a license implied by the act of sending this note to a mailing list and all that entails, it might be an infringement to even read this note. --David-- ____________________________________________________________________ David J. Loundy | E-Mail: David@Loundy.com | WWW: http://www.Loundy.com/ "I love deadlines. I like | Phone: (847) 926-9744 the whooshing sound they | Listserv (for my Technology Law column): make as they fly by." | Send a message reading "subscribe" --Douglas Adams | to Loundy-request@netural.com ____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 16:16:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8aWC-00013fa; Wed, 2 Oct 96 16:15 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!tonsper From: direct.ca!tonsper To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: splash guard Date: Wed Oct 2 16:15:53 1996 Message-ID: <96Oct2.161457-0700pdt.30448-25257+2@orb.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I had a problem recently grinding GNA. The backs of >the pieces got really scratched. >- Marilyn Kaminski >A New Light Marilyn, I had this problem awhile ago. With each pass of a piece of glass grit does build up. Now I am in the habit of holding my glass up off the surface of the grinder. This has solved the scratching problem, as well as adjusting the grinding head up and down. The downside is that sometimes I may not be perpendicular to the grinding head. But then again I do not claim to be perfect(:{). (How do you guys make this face without a mustache?) Non Stained Glass Stuff. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 16:32:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8alO-0000IPa; Wed, 2 Oct 96 16:31 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!tonsper From: direct.ca!tonsper To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: scratched glass Date: Wed Oct 2 16:31:36 1996 Message-ID: <96Oct2.163019-0700pdt.270196-29807+35@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I had a problem recently grinding GNA. The backs of >the pieces got really scratched. >- Marilyn Kaminski >A New Light Marilyn, I had this problem awhile ago. With each pass of a piece of glass grit does build up. Now I am in the habit of holding my glass up off the surface of the grinder. This has solved the scratching problem, as well as adjusting the grinding head up and down. The downside is that sometimes I may not be perpendicular to the grinding head. But then again I do not claim to be perfect(:{). (How do you guys make this face without a mustache? Non Stained Glass Stuff.) Talk about lack of computer knowledge. I sent this message once without signing it. Debbie Alexander Wild Rose Stained Glass Studio P.S. I have done some Home Page Visiting. Well done Steve, Mike, Elizabeth and Toby. I enjoy seeing how other people use glass to create works of art. Makes me very humble about my own work. P.S.S. I love your picture Toby! I have two girls that would love to meet you. Thanks to everyone who contributes. Each day I can learn something different or put a different spin to a problem. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 17:09:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8bLt-00012da; Wed, 2 Oct 96 17:09 PDT X-Path: lodz.pdi.net!michu-g From: "=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" To: Subject: glass software comparison,beveling equipment and health care Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2096 23:58:24 +0100 Message-ID: <199610030009.BAA08407@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk For April Paine I would gladly share with you any feedback received if I had received = any. Up till now no one mentioned topics we both seek answers to / is that = correct English?/ Probably list of questions was too long or covering too wide area for = single person to answer which prevented one to speak-up. Or it might be that products mentioned are not in use by our = glass-group. Is there anybody making own bevels? Will keep in touch when somebody responds. It's interesting also to hear more on health-care and lung illnesses = prevention in context of soldering flux fumes.If one does a lot of soldering it might be = really hazardous and problem as far as I know, is neglected by most of us.How do you April and the = rest of the pack cope with it? Best regards Greg ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 17:39:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8boc-0000psa; Wed, 2 Oct 96 17:39 PDT X-Path: usaor.net!madglass From: madglass@usaor.net (Mary Ann Dulemba) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: my page 2 Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 20:35:51 -0400 Message-ID: <199610030051.UAA05776@gate.usaor.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Mike, Just wanted to tell you I stopped by your page and it was wonderful! I really enjoy checking out other peoples ideas and creativity! Mary Ann >welp, if anyone is intrested i just updated my shop page. the pictures >are a little smaller, but i was running out of space. > >---Mike Savad > >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >-- >Mike's Stained Glass >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > -- Registered ICC User check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 18:06:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8cDx-00010ia; Wed, 2 Oct 96 18:05 PDT X-Path: accesscomm.net!spinn From: spinn@accesscomm.net (Stephen Pinn) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sandblast resist Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 01:05:16 GMT Message-ID: <1996Oct3.1516.0> References: <<1996Oct2.14337.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: PinnCorp. Precedence: bulk Mike, the device you speak of is a vinyl cutter. These cutters are used by almose every sign shop in the country to product sign images. I bought mine used for $900. Most plotter companies (Summagraphics, Roland, IOline, etc.) sell these devices. They do work great except for fine lettering (less the 8 point) which is better left to photoresists. Hope this helps - Steve On Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:33:07 +0000, you wrote: > >we have a pretty good computer setup that allows us scan in any image, = size >it to just about any dimensions and print it back out directly onto our >resist. it even works well with Microsoft Word for nice messages in >different fonts, etc. the big problem is that we still have to cut the >resist with knives. well, one of our customers came a few weeks ago and >showed us some of his work on coffee mugs and it looked much better than >anything we could have done. after some discussion, it seems that we = have >similar computer equipment, but the customer also has a nice x-y plotter >that uses knives (rather than pens)and cuts the image out right on the >resist. he says the plotter (an H-P) sells for about $5000. we have >checked with all of our local used equipment dealers and no avial. = anyone >have one of these Hewlett-Packard plotters for sale? anything = equivalent >(but cheaper)? any ideas or comments welcome. > >Mike Peck >Summit Stained Glass >summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 18:11:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8cJ6-0000yXa; Wed, 2 Oct 96 18:10 PDT X-Path: accesscomm.net!spinn From: spinn@accesscomm.net (Stephen Pinn) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sandblast resist Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 01:10:45 GMT Message-ID: <1996Oct3.11045.0> References: <<199610021651.MAA18763@cozmo.nortel.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: PinnCorp. Precedence: bulk Pat is correct, do shop around. Roland's 950 is priced at about $2000 and is a good cutter. For used equipment try www.signweb.com, they maintain a classified area for sign making equipment. Steve On Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:51:50 -0400, you wrote: >... the big problem is that we still have to cut the >>resist with knives. well, one of our customers came a few weeks ago = and >>showed us some of his work on coffee mugs and it looked much better = than >>anything we could have done. after some discussion, it seems that we = have >>similar computer equipment, but the customer also has a nice x-y = plotter >>that uses knives (rather than pens)and cuts the image out right on the >>resist. he says the plotter (an H-P) sells for about $5000.=20 >>Mike Peck >>Summit Stained Glass >>summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net > >Don't settle for HP until you shop around. My generic cadd program = lists 20 >different vendors. Check with your local sign makers for opinions and = local >sales reps for plotters that cut vinyl. Also do a www search. Prices = range >from $5-10K. We focused on Gerber (www.gerber.com) and Allen Datagraph >(search yahoo on allen datagraph) friction feed vinly cutters and bought= an >Allen Datagraph, 800 series vinyl cutter, 30" which cost ($7,400). We = are >very pleased and cut both stain glass and sand blast patterns. The = quality >of our work improved dramatically! It takes minutes to cut a perfect = stencil! >Pat McGreevy @ Magali's Glass Art > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 2 19:02:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8d6V-00010ra; Wed, 2 Oct 96 19:01 PDT X-Path: scv.net!fullspec From: Kay Allen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sandblast resist Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 19:00:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961003020019.00685c24@mail.scv.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 14:33 2-10-96 +0000, you wrote: > >. but the customer also has a nice x-y plotter >that uses knives (rather than pens)and cuts the image out right on the >resist. he says the plotter (an H-P) sells for about $5000. we have >checked with all of our local used equipment dealers and no avial. anyone >have one of these Hewlett-Packard plotters for sale? anything equivalent >(but cheaper)? any ideas or comments welcome. > >Mike Peck >Summit Stained Glass >summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net > .Mike, Have you checked out GlasDesign Systems? The brochure they sent me included info on the Allen Datagraph series of plotters. Their number is 800-850-9340. >. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 3 03:41:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8lDb-000120a; Thu, 3 Oct 96 03:41 PDT X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: B J Snell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: your experience with software & beveling equipment Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2.2.16.19961003064127.18ff9e3a@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At , you wrote: >Hi, >Can anyone having experience or good knowledge of following topics = >advice me >about choosing best products I'm about to buy?: >1/ How do you compare S.G. designing computer software-Dragonfly's = >"Glass eye" >versus Micro Glass Corp.'s "Glass magic" both for Windows 95 IBM PC = >standart. >Knowing that first one is for flat pieces only while second has also = >flat panel's >lamps shades designing option I,m curious if second software can do all = >that first can as far as flat >pieces are concerned /size of your work and printing/plotting = >facilities./ >How do they work practicaly in everyday use and if there are advantages = >of one how does it stand against >price difference if there is one /how much is "Glass magic"?/ > Greetings Greg: I purchased Glass Magic and had to get three sets of the discs before I was able to install them. The first two sets were defective. When I finally was able to work with the program I found the clip art to be limited. The cost of the program runs around thirty dollars. The program that I used was for Windows 3.1 .... I do not have Windows 95... so I am not sure that the programs are exactly the same. I did not notice a designing option in the Glass Magic software. I took it off my hard drive and plan on donating it to the high school for a beginners class if they choose to try one. If you would like more information about Glass Magic, their internet address is MicroGlass@aol.com. You can get a lot of information about The Glass Eye at: glasseye@dfly.com and http://www.dfly.com. At that sight you can register with the firm, they will send you additional information about the program. The site also has a demonstration feature of The Glass Eye program. I received my information from them just yesterday. The program costs about $150.00. Hope this helps a little... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 3 04:21:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8lqS-0000ZCa; Thu, 3 Oct 96 04:21 PDT X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: B J Snell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Coke and Paint: was: Indian chief design Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:21:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2.2.16.19961003072138.25aff776@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Second, if it is an authorized book of Disney patterns, a reasonable >interpretation is that there is an "implied license" to make the patterns >contained in the book. (This would not be limited to a Disney book, but >would go for any pattern book.) The argument is that by nature of the >copyrighted works being in a pattern book, the purpose of which is to >construct pieces of stained glass, the author is impliedly giving you >permission to make the copies necessary to carry out the purpose of the >book. Just a note: When I took a pattern book to Kinko's for copies... they informed me that as a result of a lawsuit they (employees) will no longer make copies of patterns from a book with a copyright, however they will allow YOU to do the copying... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 3 05:08:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8mZR-0000Y0a; Thu, 3 Oct 96 05:08 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass software comparison,beveling equipment and health care Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 08:05:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct3.4543.0> References: <<199610030009.BAA08407@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?= wrote: > > For April Paine > > I would gladly share with you any feedback received if I had received = > any. > Up till now no one mentioned topics we both seek answers to / is that = > correct English?/ > Probably list of questions was too long or covering too wide area for = > single person to answer > which prevented one to speak-up. > Or it might be that products mentioned are not in use by our = > glass-group. I'm the one that originally posted the american bevel site url when coming home from the Nashville show, and I was so excited about seeing it there. After the web site wasn't up, and I talked to my supplier about the program, they suggested to wait, because American Bevel is just a very slow provider. My interest was in the glass chips that could be painted into the design once drawn, and now that you say only 8 bevels are included, I'm even more disappointed. So basically I don't have much to comment on the software. I don't bevel my own bevels, so nothing to comment there. As for fumes, I solder in a fairly large room, with 12 windows (some of which can be opened) and I have my lead levels checked. I don't use a mask or fume collector or even have a fan drawing the fumes to the window. So far my blood levels have been fine. I don't get irritation in my nose, or any such thing, so I figure why change something that seems to be working. I know a lot of people do have sensitivities, and they should try other methods....but for now I'm happy without all the contraptions. (Btw, I do only copper foil work, no lead dust involved) I hope this non response is better than no response at all! Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 3 06:23:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8njt-0000iZa; Thu, 3 Oct 96 06:22 PDT X-Path: scv.net!fullspec From: Kay Allen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass software comparison,beveling equipment and health Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 06:20:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961003132027.00688974@mail.scv.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Joyce, I purchased the AB software a few months ago. Although I didn't know it was an incomplete program at the time I had plenty of files with which to do the tutorial. He (Richard Ashoff) mentioned something at the time about "glassifying" some more pieces to the program. I guess it was the remaining bevels, etc. I have heard from him recently and he says he has completed the drawings of the rest of the bevels and will ship them out in about two weeks. He also will have instructions on how to draw the flowers in the tutorial. I'm really anxious about those glass chips also. Kay From owner-glass Thu Oct 3 08:17:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8pVw-0000mJa; Thu, 3 Oct 96 08:16 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75713.716 From: Constance Hall <75713.716@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: air compressors Date: 03 Oct 96 11:14:32 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct3.151432.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Need a new air compressor and wonder if anyone has any opinions on good or bad ones. Am going to sandblast with it and also run air to my hot shop. Also what is the difference between single and two stage besides two stage being twice the price? Thanks. E-mail from: Constance Hall, 03-Oct-1996 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 3 08:47:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8pzP-0000m4a; Thu, 3 Oct 96 08:47 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Bevels-Fumes Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 11:50:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct3.45050.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Greg> > Is there anybody making own bevels? > It's interesting also to hear more on health-care and lung illnesses = > prevention in the context of soldering flux fumes.If one does a lot of soldering it might be => really hazardous and problem. Hi Greg, My computer has been in the shop waiting for a new hard drive. I found 130 bad clusters with the DOS surface scan. The whole back of the visual was lined with B's on a less than a month old drive. I'm not experienced with computers. I am thankful for the tip from Loveta that this once happened to her prior to a crash. The shop replaced my drive free. I haven't done any bevels but Charlie (my husband) is working on converting an old industral machine tool into a beveling one. He is in the research phase figuring out the mathematics to program it (differential geomentry) not my area. It's an old jig grinder. He says he'll add a few computer-controlled motors and a tilting head. If anyone already has done this and has any tips we would love to hear from you. I am still looking for software. We have ordered the Glasseye from Dragonfly. I decided Monday since we haven't gotten good reviews on the others and my Coreldraw 4 has a few bugs that it was worth having it consolidated in one program. I am for prevention. I am also a RN and from a health prospective by the time you find out there is a problem with fumes damage has already taken place. If you have children and work out of your home as I do, exhaust and periodic blood monitoring are a must. Lead poisoning sypmtoms mimic the flu "colicky abdominal pain, headache, constipation and irritability. Severe poisoning may cause coma and convulsions." Lead targets the nervous system, GI tract and the blood. Chronic intoxication of children can cause learning disorders and motor problems. You should tell your pediatrician so that it's noted in your kid's chart in the event signs and symptoms occur. I chose not to solder during pregnancy. However you should check with your M.D.. There is a federal law stating that workers with lead levels >60ug/dl must be removed from the site of exposure (data 1992). Just as an example I once new a man that worked in a muffler shop and he thought working with the garage doors open was enough exhaust. It wasn't and he spent alot of money and time having chelation treatments. This does not even address the potential long term effects. I'm not claiming to be an authority on the subject but it is better to be safe than sorry. "Ounce of prevention..." April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 3 10:57:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8s0s-00015na; Thu, 3 Oct 96 10:56 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Bevels-Fumes Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610031756.NAA01018@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April, >I am still looking for software. We have ordered the Glasseye from >Dragonfly. I decided Monday since we haven't gotten good reviews on the >others and my Coreldraw 4 has a few bugs that it was worth having it >consolidated in one program. Have you received this software yet? I have had mine for 3 weeks now and for the most part have been very satisfied with results from this program. After installation, I completed a small panel (less than 12" in diameter) in less than 10 minutes of use and had a great time to boot! The only thing that I haven't been completely satisfied with is the fact the files are saved as ".eye" and I really would rather have been able to save them as ".tif" or ".gif" and hopefully been able to use them with other programs. Today, I have been playing with the demo version of the new software from American Bevel. It's pretty slick. I really like the fact that there are so many base bevel shapes available to create with. This version only contained 8 clusters, but someone here mentioned to me today that the most recent "registered" version contains over 150 clusters. Very impressed with the possibility of "coloring" the finished design and that this program recognizes ".gif", ".tif", ".jpg" formats. Since Spectrum Glass now has an established, and very well put together site now (http://www.SpectrumGlass.com) and shows actual representations of some of their glass, maybe they will consider making these files available to "plug" into the the color palette for this program. I realize that it's only one manufacturer, but it would be a beginning..... Just my two cents, Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 3 14:26:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8vH1-00019ra; Thu, 3 Oct 96 14:25 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Bevel cluster software Date: 03 Oct 96 17:23:40 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct3.212340.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I'm the one that originally posted the american bevel site url when >coming home from the Nashville show, and I was so excited about seeing >it there. ... My interest was in the glass chips that >could be painted into the design once drawn, and now that you say only 8 >bevels are included, I'm even more disappointed. Joyce, American Bevel's president, Dick Ashoff, sent us a copy of the just outta beta program to review, but pointed out that the version he'd sent (like yours) didn't include all of their bevel clusters ... only 10 of 'em ... but that all of them *would be included as of that week ... his letter's dated September 24, so I'd guess that they're included now. The point AB's software, of course, is to sell AB's bevel clusters, which Ashoff admits aren't the cheapest on the market, but I assume that the time you save trying to plan doors, entries, transoms, etc. *without AB's software will more than make up the difference in the clusters' cost. If you've already bought the software and need an update, so that all of the clusters *are included, I suspect that they're ready to hear from you. Write to them at ab@americanbevel.com Hope this helps. Albert __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 3 16:51:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8xXN-0001B8a; Thu, 3 Oct 96 16:50 PDT X-Path: lodz.pdi.net!michu-g From: "=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" To: Subject: how glass making relates to other arts- if it is an art -or is it just a craft Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2096 00:50:43 +0100 Message-ID: <199610032350.AAA09791@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Today is a big day for cultural Poland. Literature Nobel Prize 96 goes to poet Wislawa Szymborska. She's second polish poet awarded this prize these years. First one ,in early 80's was Cz. Milosz ,literature profesor at Berkeley.Ca. =20 Being musician and glassman myself,I often am inspired by other branch' = art works. Visual inspires musical and vice versa but also poetry is very "kicky". What are your experiences with re-planting emotions felt while in = contact with other than visual art-works? Sorry it's not strictly"technical glass oriented" but I believe it = relates if we are not only craftsmen/persons/. Greg on a virtual ,high-flying Pegasus / this time-instead of everyday's = swearing beast = from savage East/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 3 16:51:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8xXN-0001B3a; Thu, 3 Oct 96 16:50 PDT X-Path: lodz.pdi.net!michu-g From: "=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" To: Subject: Re: your experience with software & beveling equipment Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2096 00:17:15 +0100 Message-ID: <199610032350.AAA09780@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks for sharing your experience with software Seems that Glass Eye is a lot better than Glass Magic,if it only was also for lamps. Is there any 3D spherical software to design shades of half ball shape? What a great idea to have glass samples in-build into designing software What a tool it would be as for presentation to ordering customer. Greg ---------- > From: B J Snell > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: your experience with software & beveling equipment > Date: 3 pa=BCdziernika 1996 11:41 >=20 > At , you wrote: > >Hi, > >Can anyone having experience or good knowledge of following topics = =3D > >advice me > >about choosing best products I'm about to buy?: > >1/ How do you compare S.G. designing computer software-Dragonfly's = =3D > >"Glass eye" > >versus Micro Glass Corp.'s "Glass magic" both for Windows 95 IBM PC = =3D > >standart. > >Knowing that first one is for flat pieces only while second has also = =3D > >flat panel's > >lamps shades designing option I,m curious if second software can do = all =3D > >that first can as far as flat > >pieces are concerned /size of your work and printing/plotting =3D > >facilities./ > >How do they work practicaly in everyday use and if there are = advantages =3D > >of one how does it stand against > >price difference if there is one /how much is "Glass magic"?/ > > > Greetings Greg: > I purchased Glass Magic and had to get three sets of the = discs > before I was able to install them. The first two sets were defective. = When > I finally was able to work with the program I found the clip art to be = limited. > The cost of the program runs around thirty dollars. The program that = I used > was for Windows 3.1 .... I do not have Windows 95... so I am not sure = that > the programs are exactly the same. I did not notice a designing = option in > the Glass Magic software. I took it off my hard drive and plan on = donating > it to the high school for a beginners class if they choose to try one. = If > you would like more information about Glass Magic, their internet = address is > MicroGlass@aol.com. =20 > You can get a lot of information about The Glass Eye = at: > glasseye@dfly.com and http://www.dfly.com. At that sight you = can > register with the firm, they will send you additional information = about the > program. The site also has a demonstration feature of The Glass Eye = program. > I received my information from them just yesterday. The program costs = about > $150.00. =20 > Hope this helps a little... >=20 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 3 17:21:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8y00-0000qka; Thu, 3 Oct 96 17:20 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Bevels-Fumes....yes, and software Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:54:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199610040018.BAA23223@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi April, Can't advise you about bevels, as regads fumes, see my earlier posting. However, as regards "Glass Eye" I have spent 3 months doing an evaluation for Dargonfly for the 3.1 version that they had shelved in a drawer, thinking that everybody was "fighting to obtain Windows 95", which is where they concentrated their main efforts. My own computer system has evolved from an old 286 "machine" that I obtained for nothing out of a skip (I belive you in USA call it a dumpster). It was very efficient in doing my correspondence in DOS Wordstar and filing and a primitive - but adequate - DTP package. Enter White Knight Customer, who is a very senior Computer Consultant at a large international computer company (no NOT IBM), who hi-jacks my entire system, rebuilds it, installs new and mysterious software. Hey Presto, I am on the Internet.....!! Presented to me as a Birthday Present! In the wake of this, comes the Dragonfly evaluation. I am not one for fancy computer drawing tools. But I quite like this programme and will use it. I hear it is not compatible with some other computer systems (MacIntosh ??). It's got some lovely, neat features, which I was quite impressed with (the step-by-step-by-step delete feature - one of them, as the reverse restore). Available for Windows 95 and NOW for Windows 3.1 I myself have Windows 3.11 For Workgroups. More than that, in my experience, Dragonfly is not a "Craig Hackney" outfit. Dragonfly delivers! I got answers 10 minutes after I asked the questions.... I'll be happy to share my evaluation experiences with those of you interested. Still have all my notes and correspondence with them. On or off the Group... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 3 17:21:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v8y03-0000yNa; Thu, 3 Oct 96 17:20 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass software comparison,beveling equipment and health car Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:54:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199610040018.BAA23226@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Greg, April and all, After so many years of teaching stained glass in colleges in several counties, I am now for the first time being presented with Health and Safety Evaluation forms, for me to formally evaluate, putting my neck on the line and formally commit in writing. Interesting that, considering the Health and Safety battle I am having for my friend, who has NEVER been confronted , asked, informed about these matters and who is now ill. But all of a sudden, these Colleges want these written technical Evaluation reports, signed, sealed and delivered by YESTERDAY!! Modifying a spare room in one's home into a stained glass workshop, where dogs, cats, children run in and out, where the space is very possibly small and confined is a totally different matter to using a room that is perhaps 15 - 30 feet in height, designed to accommodate 30 - 40 people at any one time, has got 2-3 doors and perhaps 10 - 15 windows (each 5 ft x 6 ft) that all open ....; where there is no carpeting, but workshop/laboratory type flooring and where all the work benches are purposebuilt; where industrial cleaners are employed . I don't allow any of my students to do copper-foiling until they have produced at least 3-4 leaded panels. By then, they know the principles of soldering, the hazards. At coffee break/lunch-breaks I personally supervise them all washing their hands thouroughly, before allowing them anywhere near food or drink. (Oh, yes, I am quite dictatorial and "bossy"!!) For a leaded panel, soldering consumes a relatively small percentage of the "creation process", so exposure to fumes are limited, within the given environment. Handling lead consumes a greater time. There again, by observing rigorous hygiene you can reduce risks and exposure. Most of the time, you are handling glass. That is where the concentration of health & safety training is directed. If you are trained how to handle the glass itself securely, confidently and safely, you will also have reduced the time when you have to handle lead (a knock-on effect; if you have cut a piece of glass badly, then you are going to have to spend much more time in making the lead fit...) I too have my lead-level tested every 3 years or so. My philosophy must pay off, as I there isn't a "murmur" of any problem. I am also fast in my leading and soldering, not because this is an onerous task! If anything, it is my leading that actually creates my vision of the panel I am making. The glass has to be accurate first. In the final analysis, it boils down to preparation. Anyhow, I am now bombarded by these forms and "risk evaluation reports". To give a fair evaluation of the soldering aspecct, I intend to consult with Safety people at BBC tv engineering staff, who do nothing else all day and who have a strict health & safety criteria, before I commit my neck on paper. If only Susan had had the benefit of this type of Health & Safety protection........ Will keep you posted. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 00:42:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v94s2-0000nqa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 00:40 PDT X-Path: rmplc.co.uk!mdcglas From: mdcglas@rmplc.co.uk (mdc glasgow) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: software evaluation Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:43:40 +0100 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elizabeth wrote ..... >I'll be happy to share my evaluation experiences with those of you >interested. Still have all my notes and correspondence with them. >On or off the Group... >Elisabeth 'n Toby I for one would be very interested in reading your evaluation of the software in my dual roles as a computer support person {I wonder if I could convince my boss that this software could be used for CAD in schools mmm.... (g) } and glass artist anything you could forward would be great Thanks Phil ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 01:36:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v95jL-0000kaa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 01:35 PDT X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass software comparison,beveling equipment and health car Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:34:44 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <9610040834.AA25080@crosfield.co.uk> References: <<199610040018.BAA23226@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elisabeth writes: > I don't allow any of my students to do copper-foiling until they have > produced at least 3-4 leaded panels. By then, they know the > principles of soldering, the hazards. Interesting... I'd have thought that the whiting stage would be more hazardous than soldering - but that may just be that I'm used to soldering from electronics :-) and don't regard it as "dangerous". -Jerry -- _|_ Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) / | Hemel Hempstead, UK jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \_|_ jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) \__/ www.selune.demon.co.uk (soon) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 04:34:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v98VZ-0000oga; Fri, 4 Oct 96 04:33 PDT X-Path: newtech.net!frogfoot From: Elizabeth Magurczek To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:41:01 -0400 Message-ID: <199610031841.OAA08066@wchester.newtech.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 04:35:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v98Wa-0000B0a; Fri, 4 Oct 96 04:34 PDT X-Path: newtech.net!frogfoot From: Elizabeth Magurczek To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:41:32 -0400 Message-ID: <199610031241.IAA03966@wchester.newtech.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 05:07:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v991Z-0000H0a; Fri, 4 Oct 96 05:06 PDT X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: RE: PlastiCame Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 07:25:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct4.32519.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sus said: Hi All, I just got the new Glass Patterns Quarterly today and am curious about the 'PlastiCame' that is advertised. Does anybody know anything about it? Sue 1091@nethawk.com Me too, Sue. I sent for information on the reader service card from Glass Patterns Quarterly and searched the web for anything about the plasticame but haven't found a thing. Anyone know anything about it? Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 05:09:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v994Y-0000JXa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 05:09 PDT X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz From: llutz To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: air compressors Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 22:03:08 +1100 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.938.0> References: <<1996Oct3.151432.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Constance Hall wrote: > > Need a new air compressor and wonder if anyone has any opinions on good or bad > ones. Am going to sandblast with it and also run air to my hot shop. Also what > is the difference between single and two stage besides two stage being twice > the price? Thanks. > > E-mail from: Constance Hall, 03-Oct-1996 >Constance- a two stage compressor just compresses the gas part of the way in the first stage, then takes the partially compressed gas to the second stage to compress it to the final pressure. There are size and efficiency implications but I won't bore you with the details. Sorry I can't help with brand names as I doubt You would find Aust. ones there. Larry from Minore > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 05:10:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v994d-0000eqa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 05:09 PDT X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz From: llutz To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: how glass making relates to other arts- if it is an art -or is it just a craft Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 22:14:10 +1100 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.91410.0> References: <<199610032350.AAA09791@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?= wrote: > > Today is a big day for cultural Poland. > Literature Nobel Prize 96 goes to poet Wislawa Szymborska. > She's second polish poet awarded this prize these years. > First one ,in early 80's was Cz. Milosz ,literature profesor > at Berkeley.Ca. =20 > Being musician and glassman myself,I often am inspired by other branch' = > art works. > Visual inspires musical and vice versa but also poetry is very "kicky". > What are your experiences with re-planting emotions felt while in = > contact > with other than visual art-works? > Sorry it's not strictly"technical glass oriented" but I believe it = > relates if we are > not only craftsmen/persons/. > > Greg on a virtual ,high-flying Pegasus / this time-instead of everyday's = > swearing beast > = > from savage East/ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Personally- I like to play something like Liszt, Mozart or similar while I work- and turn the volume up (nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away)- a real luxury- Larry from Minore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 05:15:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v999c-000199a; Fri, 4 Oct 96 05:14 PDT X-Path: newtech.net!frogfoot From: Elizabeth Magurczek To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:34:21 -0400 Message-ID: <199610030034.UAA30101@wchester.newtech.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 05:17:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v99Bu-0000F5a; Fri, 4 Oct 96 05:17 PDT X-Path: newtech.net!frogfoot From: Elizabeth Magurczek To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:37:29 -0400 Message-ID: <199610021937.PAA25204@wchester.newtech.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 08:38:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9CKe-0000bIa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 08:38 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Linda Campbell Subject: RE: PlastiCame Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Oct4.13414.0> References: <<1996Oct4.32519.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just guessing, but I suspect the plasticame is the product that is used by the fold who make fake stained glass panels, i.e., using colored plastic sheeting and then simulating lead lines with the PlasticCame. I purchased some several years back thinking it might be useful to use in repairs. So far, I haven't opened the package. PJ from CA. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 10:55:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9ERV-0000yEa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 10:53 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: PlastiCame Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:53:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610041753.NAA09820@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All, Well, now I've learned a bit more. I found the ad in Glass Patterns Quarterly and contacted the manufacturer. They will be sending us a package of more information so that we can make a better decision. What I did find out is that this came requires no soldering at all and I am still uncertain if puttying is necessary or not; my guess is that it is. Also a colored matched glue is available which it squeezed into the joints and cures so that you don't have to solder; and they mentioned that it will clean off glass when still wet with a damp rag, or can be trimmed with a utility knife when it has set up a bit. Currently they have only 3 colors available: white, black, and gray. The "H" channels are flexible and the outside "U" channels are rigid. Currently the sizes available are: 3/16" and 1/4" Round H, 3/8" Flat H, and 1/2" Flat U. The strips would come in 5 foot lengths (whereas lead is 6 feet). Drat it all; I forgot to ask if it can be cut with lead nippers or if it requires a saw. They did mention that their product line hasn't been firmed up since they are still such a new company and they are awaiting ideas and constructive criticism on their products. When I have more information, I would be happy to give you my opinions on this. I will admit up front that I am still skeptical because I don't think plastics will hold up so well over time. If a large panel is made, how will support be added if you can't solder reinforcing bars or loops to insert the bars through? Will the plastic look either too fake and devalue the finished glass piece or detract (or distract) from the beauty of the glass? This inquiring mind wants to know, too. Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 13:34:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9Gw3-00014Ha; Fri, 4 Oct 96 13:33 PDT X-Path: newtech.net!frogfoot From: FEFranks To: glass@bungi.com Subject: doberman Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 16:32:13 +0000 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961004163213.00677c18@POP3.newtech.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone know where I can find a pattern of a doberman head. I've seen other dogs but have been unable to find one of a doberman. Thanks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 13:46:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9H8L-0000hQa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 13:46 PDT X-Path: lodz.pdi.net!michu-g From: "=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" To: Subject: Re: Bevel cluster software Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2096 21:46:59 +0100 Message-ID: <199610042045.VAA04989@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Albert Lewis [IGGA] <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Bevel cluster software > Date: 3 pa=BCdziernika 2096 22:23 >=20 >=20 > >I'm the one that originally posted the american bevel site url = when > >coming home from the Nashville show, and I was so excited about = seeing > >it there. ... My interest was in the glass chips that > >could be painted into the design once drawn, and now that you say = only 8 > >bevels are included, I'm even more disappointed. >=20 > Joyce, >=20 > American Bevel's president, Dick Ashoff, sent us a copy of the just = outta beta > program to review, but pointed out that the version he'd sent (like = yours) > didn't include all of their bevel clusters ... only 10 of 'em ... but = that all > of them *would be included as of that week ... his letter's dated = September 24, > so I'd guess that they're included now. >=20 > The point AB's software, of course, is to sell AB's bevel clusters, = which Ashoff > admits aren't the cheapest on the market, but I assume that the time = you save > trying to plan doors, entries, transoms, etc. *without AB's software = will more > than make up the difference in the clusters' cost. >=20 > If you've already bought the software and need an update, so that all = of the > clusters *are included, I suspect that they're ready to hear from you. = Write to > them at ab@americanbevel.com Hope this helps. >=20 > Albert > __________________________________________ > Albert Lewis Executive Director > International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. > __________________________________________ > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ >=20 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 16:18:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9JVM-0000r2a; Fri, 4 Oct 96 16:18 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: PlastiCame Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:17:51 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct4.231751.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just curious, have you talked to anybody associated with Stained Glass Overlay? They should consider this a competitor product and, hopefully are on top of its performance (relative to theirs). Check with your local franchisee. Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass (aka -- "no SGO here, thank you") At 05:53 PM 10/4/96 +0000, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Well, now I've learned a bit more. I found the ad in Glass Patterns >Quarterly and contacted the manufacturer. They will be sending us a package >of more information so that we can make a better decision. What I did find >out is that this came requires no soldering at all and I am still uncertain >if puttying is necessary or not; my guess is that it is. Also a colored >matched glue is available which it squeezed into the joints and cures so >that you don't have to solder; and they mentioned that it will clean off >glass when still wet with a damp rag, or can be trimmed with a utility knife >when it has set up a bit. > >Currently they have only 3 colors available: white, black, and gray. The >"H" channels are flexible and the outside "U" channels are rigid. Currently >the sizes available are: 3/16" and 1/4" Round H, 3/8" Flat H, and 1/2" Flat >U. The strips would come in 5 foot lengths (whereas lead is 6 feet). Drat >it all; I forgot to ask if it can be cut with lead nippers or if it requires >a saw. They did mention that their product line hasn't been firmed up since >they are still such a new company and they are awaiting ideas and >constructive criticism on their products. > >When I have more information, I would be happy to give you my opinions on >this. I will admit up front that I am still skeptical because I don't think >plastics will hold up so well over time. If a large panel is made, how will >support be added if you can't solder reinforcing bars or loops to insert the >bars through? Will the plastic look either too fake and devalue the finished >glass piece or detract (or distract) from the beauty of the glass? This >inquiring mind wants to know, too. > >Stephanie >______________________________________________________________________ >Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net >Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass >2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) >Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) >USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) > 1-517-482-4028 (International) >_____________________________________________________________________ > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 17:10:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9KJT-0000OVa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 17:09 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: crashes Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 20:05:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct4.16514.0> References: <<1996Oct4.231751.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. there using Smail, but others are also using Smail, so i'm not sure whats going on. the only way i've been able to fix it, is to edit the file directly. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 17:17:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9KQB-0000Tca; Fri, 4 Oct 96 17:16 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: doberman Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 00:50:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199610050015.BAA01879@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk FEFranks - "frogfoot" what a wonderful e-mail address!!! Welcome aboard! Glad to hear from you! If all else fails, go along to your local vetinary clinic and / or hospital and ask them for a "dog chart", which - of course - should include the doberman. From this chart, you should then be able to create a suitable design. Splendid dogs they are. We have a number of Dobermans in my village, where I live "Across the Pond", my favorite is a female total "softie" called Tara. I have made a number of stained glass dog panels, including a Pekinese. (the others were poodles, beagles, labradores, bloodhounds and Old English Sheepdogs). If I can help further, please let me know. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 17:17:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9KQB-0000VHa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 17:16 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: PlastiCame Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 00:50:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199610050015.BAA01834@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >From Stepanie at Delphi on 4th oOctober, having ordered her first lot of plasticame..... ....Dunno here.... perhaps I'm just a bit old fashioned. Just don't like the sound of this. Why just stop at having plastic edging lead, let's go the "whole hog" and replace ALL lead with plastic and ALL glass with plastic panes or coloured plastic adhesive films. Come BACK cheap. nasty, producers from the Far East; ALL is forgiven - AT LEAST you produce REAL glass and REAL lead! I am not at all adverse to new ideas and new technology, far from it. In a way I equate it with this analogy; when you sit down to dinner, what would you rather drink your red wine out of? A plastic mug or a hand-cut lead crystal glass?? And NO, I am not a snob,. give me an ordinary glass tumbler (preferably large) full of wine and I will devour it with immense gusto; but glass is glass, lead is lead and plastic is plastic. I design and make traditional stained glass leaded panels. I bow to and respect tradition and I work within that confines of tradition. To me, plastic has no place in that area - but it's great for use in the microwave and for picknicks and great for using in new automotive tecnology ( car), for medical/surgical applications and many, many other fields. Some years ago, I got briefly involved with the plastic imitation "wave" of stained glass. Coloured plastic film was attached to double glazed panels, on top of which adhesive strips of lead were "stuck" onto the glass and the plastic film. It became quite a "vogue" in the UK for a while and even spilled over into the DIY-industry.Then the adhesive lead got replaced by plastic "lead-effect" strips. It was AWFUL! Plastic cames !!?? Please do think twice!! Elisabeth ' Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 17:23:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9KW7-000164a; Fri, 4 Oct 96 17:22 PDT X-Path: aimnet.com!tcolson From: Tom Colson To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 17:20:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct4.10204.0> References: <<1996Oct4.16514.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Tiles On The Web: http://www.aimnet.com/~tcolson/webtiles.htm Precedence: bulk Hi Mike- Same problem here. The only solution I've found is the same one you have: edit your "inbox" file in the mail directory and delete the offending message. I'm betting that the crashes are due to some encoding snafu since the messages originate in Europe. May be a bug in Netscape. Regards, Tom M. Savad wrote: > > does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from > certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net > seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. there using Smail, but > others are also using Smail, so i'm not sure whats going on. the only > way i've been able to fix it, is to edit the file directly. > > ---Mike Savad -- Tom Colson tcolson@aimnet.com Tiles On The Web: http://www.aimnet.com/~tcolson/webtiles.htm The web site for handmade tiles. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 19:07:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9M97-0000yBa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 19:07 PDT X-Path: newtech.net!frogfoot From: FEFranks To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 22:05:49 +0000 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961004220549.0066b054@POP3.newtech.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 05:20 PM 10/4/96 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Mike- > >Same problem here. The only solution I've found is the same one you >have: edit your "inbox" file in the mail directory and delete the >offending message. I'm betting that the crashes are due to some >encoding snafu since the messages originate in Europe. May be a bug in >Netscape. > >Regards, > >Tom > > >M. Savad wrote: >> >> does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from >> certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net >> seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. there using Smail, but >> others are also using Smail, so i'm not sure whats going on. the only >> way i've been able to fix it, is to edit the file directly. >> >> ---Mike Savad > >-- >Tom Colson >tcolson@aimnet.com >Tiles On The Web: http://www.aimnet.com/~tcolson/webtiles.htm >The web site for handmade tiles. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >I recently dl'd Netscape 3.0 and have been unable to use the mail part of the program also. I think it is a bug in the program. I switched to Eudora light and have not had any further problems. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 19:24:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9MPj-000175a; Fri, 4 Oct 96 19:24 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: "J. Hendershott" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 19:27:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct4.122746.0> References: <<1.5.4.32.19961004220549.0066b054@POP3.newtech.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >Same problem here. The only solution I've found is the same one you > >have: edit your "inbox" file in the mail directory and delete the > >offending message. I'm betting that the crashes are due to some > >encoding snafu since the messages originate in Europe. May be a bug in > >Netscape. > >> does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from > >> certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net > >> seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. there using Smail, but > >> others are also using Smail, so i'm not sure whats going on. the only > >> way i've been able to fix it, is to edit the file directly. > >I recently dl'd Netscape 3.0 and have been unable to use the mail part of > the program also. I think it is a bug in the program. I switched to Eudora > light and have not had any further problems. Add me to the list too. My Netscape 3.0 crashes when I am retrieving messages. I haven't noticed if any specific message brings it down, because I can't read them after the crash. Sounds like a netscape bug. Janie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 19:43:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9MhU-0000Q8a; Fri, 4 Oct 96 19:42 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: "J. Hendershott" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Inbox Bug Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 19:46:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct4.124620.0> References: <<1996Oct4.122746.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Add me to the list too. My Netscape 3.0 crashes when I am retrieving > messages. I haven't noticed if any specific message brings it down, > because I can't read them after the crash. Sounds like a netscape bug. I just checked out the netscape usergroup and found the answer to the problem. It is a bug in netscape related to the date on a message. Go to the Netscape usergroup and look for the messages on "INBOX BUG". Now I have to see if I can figure out what they're talking about. Janie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 20:00:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9MyE-0000GOa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 20:00 PDT X-Path: arn.net!loveta From: "Loveta" To: Subject: Re: crashes Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:00:35 -0500 Message-ID: <199610050257.VAA24654@arnet.arn.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have had so many crashes I gave up. I am now using microsoft, with no mail problems. Loveta ---------- > From: M. Savad > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: crashes > Date: Friday, October 04, 1996 7:05 PM > > does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from > certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net > seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. there using Smail, but > others are also using Smail, so i'm not sure whats going on. the only > way i've been able to fix it, is to edit the file directly. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 20:01:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9Mz5-0000VCa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 20:00 PDT X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: Shirley Suter To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Crashes Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 21:52:35 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct4.165235.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Suter's Stained Glass - (409) 687-3841 Precedence: bulk NOT GLASS RELATED! Hi there Crashed Mail Folks!!! If you are using Netscape 3.0 (I'm using it with no problems, knock on wood), there are several other options to consider. For you Windows 95 people, you can use Explorer available for downloading at http://www.microsoft.com/ie/ For the users of Windows 3.1, you can use Eudora available for downloading at http://www.eudora.com If you need any further assistance, please contact me personally at: ssuter@intrastar.net and I will help any way I can. Professional Stained Glass Artist and Internet Service Provider, Shirley Suter Grapeland, Tx. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 20:39:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9NZc-00011va; Fri, 4 Oct 96 20:38 PDT X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz From: llutz To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 13:38:13 +1100 Message-ID: <1996Oct6.03813.0> References: <<1996Oct4.16514.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk M. Savad wrote: > > does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from > certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net > seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. there using Smail, but > others are also using Smail, so i'm not sure whats going on. the only > way i've been able to fix it, is to edit the file directly. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I too have crashed Netscape 3.0 twice in the last day. I had just composed an email to a site unrelated to glass- clicked send and was informed that an illegal operation had taken place- when I restarted- of course the email was lost- However- I can't associate it with the glass list. Larry from Minore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 4 21:30:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9ONH-0000nTa; Fri, 4 Oct 96 21:30 PDT X-Path: arn.net!loveta From: "Loveta" To: Subject: Re: Crashes Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:29:49 -0500 Message-ID: <199610050426.XAA00776@arnet.arn.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Evidently you have not had the problems, we have had. It gets so bad it even freezes up my new computer. Loveta ---------- > From: Shirley Suter > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: RE: Crashes > Date: Friday, October 04, 1996 9:52 PM > > NOT GLASS RELATED! > > Hi there Crashed Mail Folks!!! > > If you are using Netscape 3.0 (I'm using it with no problems, knock on > wood), there are several other options to consider. > > For you Windows 95 people, you can use Explorer available for > downloading at http://www.microsoft.com/ie/ > > For the users of Windows 3.1, you can use Eudora available for > downloading at http://www.eudora.com > > If you need any further assistance, please contact me personally at: > ssuter@intrastar.net and I will help any way I can. > > Professional Stained Glass Artist > and Internet Service Provider, > Shirley Suter > Grapeland, Tx. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 02:56:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9TT9-0000csa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 02:56 PDT X-Path: source.com.au!aking From: Andrea King To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Dragonfly Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 19:57:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct4.125720.0> References: <<199610040018.BAA23223@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elizabeth wrote: > > I'll be happy to share my evaluation experiences with those of you > interested. Still have all my notes and correspondence with them. > On or off the Group... Elizabeth, I'd love to hear your views, on or off the group. I am thinking about acquiring the Dragonfly program while I'm in the USA in December. How is that I'm of to USA soooooon, and getting very excited. Andrea Melb, Australia ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 04:51:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9VFu-0000qFa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 04:50 PDT X-Path: lodz.pdi.net!michu-g From: "=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" To: Subject: crushes Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2096 12:50:41 +0100 Message-ID: <199610051150.MAA09003@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Here at michu-g@lodz.pdi.net we are using Microsoft Internet Explorer for Windows 95.As you know there's soft-war between the two /Netscape the other oponent/ - maybe this plus time difference couses problems althou we never had any. As for european trouble-makers:-SHOOT THEM FIRST THAN look for bugs in your software! Greg ---------- > From: Andrea King > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Dragonfly > Date: 5 pa=BCdziernika 1996 03:57 >=20 > Elizabeth wrote: > >=20 >=20 > > I'll be happy to share my evaluation experiences with those of you > > interested. Still have all my notes and correspondence with them. > > On or off the Group... >=20 > Elizabeth, >=20 > I'd love to hear your views, on or off the group. I am thinking about = > acquiring the Dragonfly program while I'm in the USA in December. How = is=20 > that I'm of to USA soooooon, and getting very excited. >=20 > Andrea > Melb, Australia >=20 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 06:42:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9Wzt-0000PBa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 06:42 PDT X-Path: lodz.pdi.net!michu-g From: "=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" To: Subject: Re: your experience with software & beveling equipment Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2096 14:25:16 +0100 Message-ID: <199610051342.OAA11594@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Thanks for sharing your experience on software. Is there a program to do designing for half-ball shaped lamp-shades or flat panels' shades? Best regards Greg ---------- > From: B J Snell > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: your experience with software & beveling equipment > Date: 3 pa=BCdziernika 1996 11:41 >=20 > At , you wrote: > >Hi, > >Can anyone having experience or good knowledge of following topics = =3D > >advice me > >about choosing best products I'm about to buy?: > >1/ How do you compare S.G. designing computer software-Dragonfly's = =3D > >"Glass eye" > >versus Micro Glass Corp.'s "Glass magic" both for Windows 95 IBM PC = =3D > >standart. > >Knowing that first one is for flat pieces only while second has also = =3D > >flat panel's > >lamps shades designing option I,m curious if second software can do = all =3D > >that first can as far as flat > >pieces are concerned /size of your work and printing/plotting =3D > >facilities./ > >How do they work practicaly in everyday use and if there are = advantages =3D > >of one how does it stand against > >price difference if there is one /how much is "Glass magic"?/ > > > Greetings Greg: > I purchased Glass Magic and had to get three sets of the = discs > before I was able to install them. The first two sets were defective. = When > I finally was able to work with the program I found the clip art to be = limited. > The cost of the program runs around thirty dollars. The program that = I used > was for Windows 3.1 .... I do not have Windows 95... so I am not sure = that > the programs are exactly the same. I did not notice a designing = option in > the Glass Magic software. I took it off my hard drive and plan on = donating > it to the high school for a beginners class if they choose to try one. = If > you would like more information about Glass Magic, their internet = address is > MicroGlass@aol.com. =20 > You can get a lot of information about The Glass Eye = at: > glasseye@dfly.com and http://www.dfly.com. At that sight you = can > register with the firm, they will send you additional information = about the > program. The site also has a demonstration feature of The Glass Eye = program. > I received my information from them just yesterday. The program costs = about > $150.00. =20 > Hope this helps a little... >=20 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 07:05:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9XLo-0000zga; Sat, 5 Oct 96 07:05 PDT X-Path: aristotle.net!rwsmith From: Rebecca Smith To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Crashs Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 09:41:56 -0500 Message-ID: <2.2.16.19961005090810.300704d8@aristotle.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All: We had problems with Netscape 3.0 crashing while on the Net. We have always used Eudora Light and now Eudora Pro and have not had any mail problems at all. When we started having problems on the Net we just switched back to 2.02. All problems solved. Rebecca Smith (rwsmith@aristotle.net) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 07:21:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9XbH-0000k4a; Sat, 5 Oct 96 07:21 PDT X-Path: lodz.pdi.net!michu-g From: "=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" To: Subject: Re: PlastiCame Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2096 15:21:01 +0100 Message-ID: <199610051420.PAA13455@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk What a great idea to prevent soldering health hazards. Let's switch to plastic panels and shades-additional advantage is that we could get high on plastic's adhesives. While working on that ," a must" is to listen to Plastic Ono Band. Results guaranteed. /J.Lennon please forgive -it was her influence/ Greg - your plastic surgeon ---------- > From: Toby > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: RE: PlastiCame > Date: 5 pa=BCdziernika 1996 01:50 >=20 > >From Stepanie at Delphi on 4th oOctober, having ordered her first lot = > of plasticame..... >=20 > ....Dunno here.... perhaps I'm just a bit old fashioned. Just don't=20 > like the sound of this. > Why just stop at having plastic edging lead, let's go the "whole=20 > hog" and replace ALL lead with plastic and ALL glass with plastic=20 > panes or coloured plastic adhesive films.=20 > Come BACK cheap. nasty, producers from the Far East; ALL is forgiven=20 > - AT LEAST you produce REAL glass and REAL lead! > I am not at all adverse to new ideas and new technology, far from it. > In a way I equate it with this analogy; when you sit down to dinner,=20 > what would you rather drink your red wine out of? A plastic mug or a=20 > hand-cut lead crystal glass?? > And NO, I am not a snob,. give me an ordinary glass tumbler=20 > (preferably large) full of wine and I will devour it with immense=20 > gusto; but glass is glass, lead is lead and plastic is plastic. I=20 > design and make traditional stained glass leaded panels. I bow to and=20 > respect tradition and I work within that confines of tradition. To=20 > me, plastic has no place in that area - but it's great for use in the=20 > microwave and for picknicks and great for using in new automotive=20 > tecnology ( car), for medical/surgical applications and many, many=20 > other fields. Some years ago, I got briefly involved with the=20 > plastic imitation "wave" of stained glass. Coloured plastic film was=20 > attached to double glazed panels, on top of which adhesive=20 > strips of lead were "stuck" onto the glass and the plastic film. It=20 > became quite a "vogue" in the UK for a while and even spilled over=20 > into the DIY-industry.Then the adhesive lead got replaced by plastic=20 > "lead-effect" strips. It was AWFUL! > Plastic cames !!?? > Please do think twice!! > Elisabeth ' Toby > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm=20 > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 07:56:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9Y9f-0000Xoa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 07:56 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 10:50:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.65049.0> References: <<1.5.4.32.19961004220549.0066b054@POP3.newtech.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk FEFranks wrote: > > At 05:20 PM 10/4/96 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi Mike- > > > >Same problem here. The only solution I've found is the same one you > >have: edit your "inbox" file in the mail directory and delete the > >offending message. I'm betting that the crashes are due to some > >encoding snafu since the messages originate in Europe. May be a bug in > >Netscape. > > > >Regards, > > > >Tom > > > > > >M. Savad wrote: > >> > >> does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from > >> certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net > >> seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. there using Smail, but > >> others are also using Smail, so i'm not sure whats going on. the only > >> way i've been able to fix it, is to edit the file directly. > >> > >> ---Mike Savad > > > >-- > >Tom Colson > >tcolson@aimnet.com > >Tiles On The Web: http://www.aimnet.com/~tcolson/webtiles.htm > >The web site for handmade tiles. > > > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > >I recently dl'd Netscape 3.0 and have been unable to use the mail part of > the program also. I think it is a bug in the program. I switched to Eudora > light and have not had any further problems. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the main problem is, is that it just started to happen, i've had netscape 3.0 since beta 2, and never had this particular problem, so whatever is happening, it's that one persons' mailers' fault. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 07:58:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9YBD-0000DKa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 07:58 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 10:53:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.65339.0> References: <<1996Oct4.122746.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk J. Hendershott wrote: > > > >Same problem here. The only solution I've found is the same one you > > >have: edit your "inbox" file in the mail directory and delete the > > >offending message. I'm betting that the crashes are due to some > > >encoding snafu since the messages originate in Europe. May be a bug in > > >Netscape. > > > >> does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from > > >> certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net > > >> seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. there using Smail, but > > >> others are also using Smail, so i'm not sure whats going on. the only > > >> way i've been able to fix it, is to edit the file directly. > > > >I recently dl'd Netscape 3.0 and have been unable to use the mail part of > > the program also. I think it is a bug in the program. I switched to Eudora > > light and have not had any further problems. > > Add me to the list too. My Netscape 3.0 crashes when I am retrieving > messages. I haven't noticed if any specific message brings it down, > because I can't read them after the crash. Sounds like a netscape bug. > Janie > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, either way, netscape still crashes because of one person, now i don't want to make one person feel bad, i just want that person to stop using what their using and go back to what they were using before. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 08:01:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9YEA-0000Sva; Sat, 5 Oct 96 08:01 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Inbox Bug Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 10:56:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.65645.0> References: <<1996Oct4.124620.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk J. Hendershott wrote: > > > Add me to the list too. My Netscape 3.0 crashes when I am retrieving > > messages. I haven't noticed if any specific message brings it down, > > because I can't read them after the crash. Sounds like a netscape bug. > > I just checked out the netscape usergroup and found the answer to the > problem. It is a bug in netscape related to the date on a message. Go to > the Netscape usergroup and look for the messages on "INBOX BUG". Now I > have to see if I can figure out what they're talking about. > Janie > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass what is the name of the newsgroup? the date thing sounds right when i edited the file i noticed where it was supposed to say date, (using Smail) instead it said =?iso-...something and did'nt say date at all. though even after fixing that it still crashed. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 08:05:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9YI4-0000Yja; Sat, 5 Oct 96 08:05 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 10:59:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.65932.0> References: <<199610050257.VAA24654@arnet.arn.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Loveta wrote: > > I have had so many crashes I gave up. I am now using microsoft, with no > mail problems. > > Loveta > > ---------- > > From: M. Savad > > To: glass@bungi.com > > Subject: crashes > > Date: Friday, October 04, 1996 7:05 PM > > > > does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from > > certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net > > seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. there using Smail, but > > others are also using Smail, so i'm not sure whats going on. the only > > way i've been able to fix it, is to edit the file directly. > > > > ---Mike Savad > > > > -- > > Mike's Stained Glass > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass is that the new microsoft that has the big bug in it, where it allows the other side to break into your computer? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 08:21:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9YX9-0000mqa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 08:20 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Crashes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 11:16:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.71620.0> References: <<199610050426.XAA00776@arnet.arn.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Loveta wrote: > > Evidently you have not had the problems, we have had. It gets so bad it > even freezes up my new computer. > > Loveta > > ---------- > > From: Shirley Suter > > To: glass@bungi.com > > Subject: RE: Crashes > > Date: Friday, October 04, 1996 9:52 PM > > > > NOT GLASS RELATED! > > > > Hi there Crashed Mail Folks!!! > > > > If you are using Netscape 3.0 (I'm using it with no problems, knock on > > wood), there are several other options to consider. > > > > For you Windows 95 people, you can use Explorer available for > > downloading at http://www.microsoft.com/ie/ > > > > For the users of Windows 3.1, you can use Eudora available for > > downloading at http://www.eudora.com > > > > If you need any further assistance, please contact me personally at: > > ssuter@intrastar.net and I will help any way I can. > > > > Professional Stained Glass Artist > > and Internet Service Provider, > > Shirley Suter > > Grapeland, Tx. > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah i know, now i know it's not glass related, but i don't want to remove my self from the list. ok this part of the message is for the e-mail address i posted earlier, for greg, try posting a few messages with something else. it's just weird netscape crashes on only your messages, i just delated yours from the inbox and from the mail cache, and everything works fine now. the strange part is other people are also using Smail and it's working just fine, the only difference is that yours has =?iso-8859 etc before your name, and that seems to be crashing everything. what it could be is either a bug on your side, or where you put your name in it's says that iso thing. could you check on that, or try to re-install it..thanks... it's jsut that it's crashing everyone. and for all we know maybe you have a virus on your system that dissolved a part of your mailer. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 08:31:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9Ygv-0000Qsa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 08:31 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: cutter caps and archives Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 11:28:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.72842.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm interested in carrying the cutter caps in my retail store. Someone described them a while back and at the time, I wasn't planning on buying them, so didn't save the post. However today I went to the archives to try to retrieve the info....and got totally lost. Is this post in there somewhere? Is there an easy way to find it? Or would it just be easier to post to the group? I'm totally confused, and would like input on the achives, as well as my question about the source for cutter caps. Thanks Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 08:32:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9YiX-0000Yma; Sat, 5 Oct 96 08:32 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: "J. Hendershott" To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 08:36:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.1368.0> References: <<199610051150.MAA09003@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?= wrote: > > Here at michu-g@lodz.pdi.net we are using Microsoft Internet Explorer > for Windows 95.As you know there's soft-war between the two > /Netscape the other oponent/ - maybe this plus time difference > couses problems althou we never had any. > As for european trouble-makers:-SHOOT THEM FIRST THAN look for bugs > in your software! > > Greg Well Greg, You had better duck the bullet, because according to my research, the date on your posts is the problem bringing the netscape users down. The dates on your posts are dated the year of 2096. This evidently can be caused by two reasons. 1. you system is set wrong, or 2. You are using a unix system that interprets the seconds of the time as a formula that translates to 2096. As soon as I change the date on your posts with a text editor to 1996 everything works fine. Darn ol netscape, I hope they fix it soon. Information is available from the Netscape users news group listed under "inbox bugs". If you can't locate it e-mail me back and I will send you a copy of it. By the way, I'm not complaining, just advising ;-) Janie Hendershott Portland Or jhendershott@macnet.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 09:09:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9ZI7-0000Ooa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 09:09 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: "J. Hendershott" To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: [Fwd: Re: E-mail Freezes] Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 09:10:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.21031.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------466875577A04 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the response I got from the news group. I reached the news group from the Netscape home page. Near the bottom there is a link to tech support, newsgroup and it is the navigator group. Janie jhendershott@macnet.com --------------466875577A04 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from vista.hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by jack.macnet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA21905 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 00:12:19 -0700 Received: from HB by vista.hevanet.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0v9NUk-0010YrC; Fri, 4 Oct 96 20:33 PDT Message-ID: <3255D747.2186@hevanet.com> Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 20:34:31 -0700 From: hb Reply-To: hb@hevanet.com Organization: Hevanet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: netscape.navigator To: "J. Hendershott" Subject: Re: E-mail Freezes References: <3255C506.67EB@macnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit J. Hendershott wrote: > > I'm running Netscape 3.0 with Windows 3.1. Lately when I download my > e-mail I get an error message "general protection fault Netscape.exe at > 002D:10D3. I am forced to leave netscape and log back on. I can use the > browser but not email or I get the same message again. If I go in and > empty or delete my mail files using file manager, I can then use e-mail > again. My entire mail directory is usually under 1 meg. What's going on > here? I want to keep some of my e-mail. It's recently been noted that certain mail message dates are corrupting the file. Open INBOX with NOTEPAD and copy/paste any mail you want to save. Mail folders are text files. If you see a message date in INBOX that's above the year 2038, change it to 1996 and save. Or simply rename the file to INBOX.BAK as your archive. Netscape will built a new INBOX next time mail is received. -- No expertise claimed. Corrections welcomed. Please post to the group. --------------466875577A04-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 09:30:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9Zc5-0000T0a; Sat, 5 Oct 96 09:30 PDT X-Path: gte.net!leestat From: leestat To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 12:27:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.52759.0> References: <<1996Oct4.16514.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Lee Boe Precedence: bulk M. Savad wrote: > > does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from > certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net > seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. Yes, I have crashed a couple of times-all the way out to c:/ prompt, when receiving mail from this group-but I had no idea why. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 10:15:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9aJv-0000bZa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 10:15 PDT X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: B J Snell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2.2.16.19961005131523.23dfbefc@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 12:27 PM 10/5/96 -0700, you wrote: >M. Savad wrote: >> >> does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from >> certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net >> seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. This is very odd, I have netscape mail also and have had no problems at all..... except it runs slow. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 10:26:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9aU7-0000fea; Sat, 5 Oct 96 10:25 PDT X-Path: internexus.net!lwaldeck From: Lew Waldeck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 12:48:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.84818.0> References: <<1996Oct4.16514.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk M. Savad wrote: > > does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from > certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net > seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. there using Smail, but > others are also using Smail, so i'm not sure whats going on. the only > way i've been able to fix it, is to edit the file directly. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Yes, I've had the same problems and thought iot was my system or perhaps my net provider. I don't know what it is cause I can't find a way to see the messages other than reading the inbox files directly. Nothing seems wrong, but then I don't know what the files are supposed to look like. Lew Waldeck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 10:28:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9aW1-0000b3a; Sat, 5 Oct 96 10:27 PDT X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Crashes Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1996Oct5.92723.0> References: <<1996Oct5.71620.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Mike, I have reproduced below for the sake of those just entering this discussion. Readers who are familiar with the crashes should skip the quoted material. You are incorrect in stating that Greg "crashes everyone." Unix with Pine is the internet cross I bear, yet it has no problems at all with his posts. So please, be a little less universal in your assertions. Not everyone has a problem simply because you do. Do you suppose that the real problem is that Netscape is xenophobic and unable to read anything but ASCII? I know Pine gives me a notice that some ISO characters maybe displayed incorrectly, but at least it toddles along, throwing something on the screen. Mary On Sat, 5 Oct 1996, M. Savad wrote: > > yeah i know, now i know it's not glass related, but i don't want to > remove my self from the list. ok this part of the message is for the > e-mail address i posted earlier, for greg, try posting a few messages > with something else. it's just weird netscape crashes on only your > messages, i just delated yours from the inbox and from the mail cache, > and everything works fine now. the strange part is other people are also > using Smail and it's working just fine, the only difference is that > yours has =?iso-8859 etc before your name, and that seems to be crashing > everything. what it could be is either a bug on your side, or where you > put your name in it's says that iso thing. could you check on that, or > try to re-install it..thanks... it's jsut that it's crashing everyone. > and for all we know maybe you have a virus on your system that dissolved > a part of your mailer. > > ---Mike Savad > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 10:34:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9abl-0000H5a; Sat, 5 Oct 96 10:33 PDT X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Crashes Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 10:33:41 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I have reproduced below for the sake of those just entering this > discussion. Readers who are familiar with the crashes should skip the Please send crash messages to individuals who care and not to the whole list. Thank you..... -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 10:51:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9asT-0000csa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 10:51 PDT X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: Shirley Suter To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: PlastiCame Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 12:42:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.74255.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Suter's Stained Glass - (409) 687-3841 Precedence: bulk I'm sure that PlastiCame will have its place......I plan to use it myself on the next entryway and tub surround order I get for Barbie and Ken's Dreamhouse. Your Plastic Pal You Love To Be With, Gumby and Pokey :) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 10:52:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9au2-0000bHa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 10:52 PDT X-Path: juno.com!cubacigrco From: cubacigrco@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Toxic fumes Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:12:04 PST Message-ID: <1996Oct5.20124.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all, Just read April's message. I am 4 months pregnant and was told the lead-free solder I was usiing was ok. Now, I'm beginning to wonder and am also questioning the fumes from anything else, like flux, etc. And no, I won't get near came until the baby is no longer nursing. Any comments? Michele ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 11:03:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9b4V-0000QWa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 11:03 PDT X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: RE: PlastiCame Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:04:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.10428.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Here, here, Shirley. I love a good rollicking thread - besides the thread on the crashes, this is the only thing that has kept me sane today, on this non-work day and I'm in here slaving away. Well, back to the drawing board. I want to get out of here early. Linda ---------- From: Shirley Suter[SMTP:ssuter@intrastar.net] Sent: Saturday, October 05, 1996 1:42 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: PlastiCame I'm sure that PlastiCame will have its place......I plan to use it myself on the next entryway and tub surround order I get for Barbie and Ken's Dreamhouse. Your Plastic Pal You Love To Be With, Gumby and Pokey :) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 11:15:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9bFn-0000jya; Sat, 5 Oct 96 11:15 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: "J. Hendershott" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Crashes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 11:18:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.41832.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenna Rand wrote: > > > I have reproduced below for the sake of those just entering this > > discussion. Readers who are familiar with the crashes should skip the > > Please send crash messages to individuals who care and not to the > whole list. Thank you..... > > -- > Glenna Rand > gjr@bungi.com Glenna I would have thought that as the moderator of this list that YOU "would care" if many of the subscribers were having major problems with their entire e-mail due to the postings of one individual. I realize Greg has nothing to do personally with the problem, however the way in which his program or system interacts with those using netscape 3.0, which is quite a few, does appear to be the problem. We were simply trouble shooting and since there is no way for anyone to know who is running Netscape 3.0, the list is the appropriate place to post the solution. All messages were clearly marked crashes and could have been deleted by those not effected. I find it quite interesting that this is the only topic you have chosen to censor. Janie jhendershott@macnet.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 13:18:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9dAN-0000gPa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 13:17 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 20:51:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199610052016.VAA20070@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Crashes due to Netscape 3? Originating in Europe? Hi Mike, I am using Netscape 2, so hope it's not me... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 13:18:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9dAN-0000V0a; Sat, 5 Oct 96 13:17 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dragonfly Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 20:51:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199610052016.VAA20035@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk OK, Guys, Would help if you asked me specific questions about "how does it do so-and-so"; I have already mentioned one rather neat feature, e.g. the step-by-step-by-step "undo" and likewhise " restore". One thing my version does not do (yet): the programme cannot receive external images from a scanner or scanning device (I use a little conversion box attached to my fax machine), but Michael Wilkes tells me that this is planned for the next up-date of the programme. You can make your drawings using hair-line lines, to "heart" widths lines, using only lead width lines or using heart and lead width lines in combination. That feature too is quite neat. You can even design 3d copper-foil projects; my first attempt was a bat. Michael Wilk was quite "polite" about it, but suggested several ways how to improve my computer techniques with his programme. Another thing I found I couln't do, was to add captions/text to the drawings within the Dragonfly programme. (e.g. as short explanations to customer). However, I was probably being too "picky". In any case, I had a visitor a couple of weeks ago, who is a recent retired Chair of a a University Faculty of Computer Technology. He spent a couple of hours playing with the programme in my study. When he finally emerged downstairs to join the rest of us, he told me he thought the programme was very good. The Dragonfly also uses another feature called "spline"; it took my UK "computer guru" (and me) a little while to really understand the meaning of this; but my overseas visitor just nooded his head sagely in approval..... The colour palette, by the way, contains 16 million possible variations..... Phew...! I have tried all sorts of other CAD programmes on other peoples' systems, but never got to grip with any of them; I have followed comments and findings of other people about programmes like or similar to the Corel-Draw series, and always been put off. I am basically a total "computer nerd"; I can't even get to grips with the accounting programme my accountant installed for me (to make HIS work easier!). So I was pleasantly surprised to find that I could actually get my head round Dragonfly. And yes, Michael didn't let me down. I don't think you will have any problem with "after sales support" there. Your questions please! Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 13:51:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9dfU-0000lJa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 13:49 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: PlastiCame Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:23:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199610052048.VAA22883@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Shirley Suter: Plasticame has its place... Ok, Shirley, I know I sounded sceptical. That doesn't stop me from waiting to hear with great interest how you got on with your project. Keep us posted. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 16:31:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9gAo-0000Qra; Sat, 5 Oct 96 16:30 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Infinite loop? Date: 05 Oct 96 19:29:39 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct5.232939.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike, I sympathize with your mail/crashing problem ... could you tell me if there's a way (I may have asked this before) for you (and others?) to respond to messages on the group without repeating the message you're replying to? Oftentimes, the previous message also contains *your previous ... and your previous contains *their previous, sort of like an infinite Russian doll. I find myself hitting the spacebar again and again, hoping to eventually see your short message after pages and pages of previous messages. Don't get me wrong ... I'm not angry, just hoping for a cleaner, leaner thread. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 16:31:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9gAo-0000OYa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 16:30 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: PlastiCame Date: 05 Oct 96 19:29:46 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct5.232946.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >the next entryway and tub surround order I get for Barbie and >Ken's Dreamhouse. ROFL! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 16:31:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9gAo-0000XWa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 16:30 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: crashes Date: 05 Oct 96 19:29:40 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct5.232940.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Janie, Just by way of input, I haven't had any crashes at all on the date field. I'm running TapCIS via CIS ... an offline reader over CompuServe. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 16:32:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9gAo-0000Zra; Sat, 5 Oct 96 16:30 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Bevels-Fumes Date: 05 Oct 96 19:29:49 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct5.232949.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >The only thing that I haven't been completely satisfied with is the fact >the files are saved as ".eye" and I really would rather have been able to >save them as ".tif" or ".gif" and hopefully been able to use them with >other programs. If it's like most other programs, you should be able to go FILE | SAVE AS and be presented with a list of options, including .GIF and .TIF ... the other possibility is that you might be able to FILE | EXPORT AS either (or more) of those file types. (FILE should be at the left-hand end of the tool bar along the top, although I'll admit I haven't *seen the program, but am assuming that it's set up similar to most others.) >American Bevel. ... recent "registered" version contains over 150 >clusters. Wow! I really *do have to load the disk that's at my left hand. I do! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 18:06:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9hfa-0000EDa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 18:06 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Toxic Fumes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 21:10:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.14104.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi Michele, Congrats! You should be able to feel him/her kick soon. When you are in doubt about the safety of something during pregnancy "don't do it". Do some research and ask your M.D. make an informed choice. Ask the company of the product in question for the MSDS sheet(material safety & data sheet). This can give you more info than is on the bottle. You can also take this with you to the M.D. so that there is no confusion on what you are asking about. You can also request info from OSHA (Occupational Safety & Health Administration). If you happen to live in a large area a perinatologist is an excellent resource to get answers. April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 18:07:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9hgb-0000e3a; Sat, 5 Oct 96 18:07 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 21:02:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.17240.0> References: <<1996Oct5.84818.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lew Waldeck wrote: > > M. Savad wrote: > > > > does anyone here use netscape 3.0? lately i've been having crashes from > > certain mailings from this group. the address of michu-g@lodz.pdi.net > > seems to be one of the one that's doing it most. there using Smail, but > > others are also using Smail, so i'm not sure whats going on. the only > > way i've been able to fix it, is to edit the file directly. > > > > ---Mike Savad > > > > -- > > Mike's Stained Glass > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Yes, I've had the same problems and thought iot was my system or perhaps > my net provider. I don't know what it is cause I can't find a way to > see the messages other than reading the inbox files directly. Nothing > seems wrong, but then I don't know what the files are supposed to look > like. > > Lew Waldeck > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah thats the main reason i decided to clog up this group. i just want this little problem fixed. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 18:11:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9hkB-0000eIa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 18:10 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Crashes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 21:05:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.1756.0> References: <<1996Oct5.92723.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk maruca@netaxs.com wrote: > > Dear Mike, > > I have reproduced below for the sake of those just entering this > discussion. Readers who are familiar with the crashes should skip the > quoted material. > > You are incorrect in stating that Greg "crashes everyone." Unix with Pine > is the internet cross I bear, yet it has no problems at all with his > posts. So please, be a little less universal in your assertions. Not > everyone has a problem simply because you do. > > Do you suppose that the real problem is that Netscape is xenophobic and > unable to read anything but ASCII? I know Pine gives me a notice that some > ISO characters maybe displayed incorrectly, but at least it toddles along, > throwing something on the screen. > > Mary > > On Sat, 5 Oct 1996, M. Savad wrote: > > > > > yeah i know, now i know it's not glass related, but i don't want to > > remove my self from the list. ok this part of the message is for the > > e-mail address i posted earlier, for greg, try posting a few messages > > with something else. it's just weird netscape crashes on only your > > messages, i just delated yours from the inbox and from the mail cache, > > and everything works fine now. the strange part is other people are also > > using Smail and it's working just fine, the only difference is that > > yours has =?iso-8859 etc before your name, and that seems to be crashing > > everything. what it could be is either a bug on your side, or where you > > put your name in it's says that iso thing. could you check on that, or > > try to re-install it..thanks... it's jsut that it's crashing everyone. > > and for all we know maybe you have a virus on your system that dissolved > > a part of your mailer. > > > > ---Mike Savad > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass when i said "everyone" i was referring to everyone who posted they were having a problem too. but it seems to be a strange bug to crash netscape over a date. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 18:18:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9hrD-0000Ofa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 18:18 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 21:13:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.171335.0> References: <<199610052016.VAA20070@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Crashes due to Netscape 3? Originating in Europe? > Hi Mike, > I am using Netscape 2, so hope it's not me... > Elisabeth 'n Toby > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass that's ok it seems to be that one person greg. if your reading this greg, change your date back to 1996, and post again, i want to find out if thats the whole problem, so we can stop this crash topic. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 18:23:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9hvc-0000E0a; Sat, 5 Oct 96 18:22 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 21:18:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.171810.0> References: <<1996Oct5.232939.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis [IGGA] wrote: > > Mike, > > I sympathize with your mail/crashing problem ... could you tell me if there's a > way (I may have asked this before) for you (and others?) to respond to messages > on the group without repeating the message you're replying to? > > Oftentimes, the previous message also contains *your previous ... and your > previous contains *their previous, sort of like an infinite Russian doll. I > find myself hitting the spacebar again and again, hoping to eventually see your > short message after pages and pages of previous messages. > > Don't get me wrong ... I'm not angry, just hoping for a cleaner, leaner thread. > > > Albert > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass in the option panel there is an auto quote feature, that does that repeat thing. i personally like having it on, sometimes people write to me with an answer and i don't know what the question was, so i write back asking what the question was, and the other person does'nt remember. thats why i quote things, so people have a refrence to what we were talking about. if it's too long i just edit it down a bit. except that can be annoying too. but....oh well.... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 18:56:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9iRP-0000Uxa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 18:55 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Toxic fumes Date: 05 Oct 96 21:54:26 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct6.15426.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Michele wrote, > I am 4 months pregnant and was told the lead-free solder I was usiing was > ok. Now, I'm beginning to wonder and am also questioning the fumes from > anything else, like flux, etc. And no, I won't get near came until the > baby is no longer nursing. Any comments? Michele ---- Good thinking. There is so much we don't know about chemical exposure and the fetus that it is always good to err on the side of caution. If the flux is a fluoride, we know that this element crosses the placental barrier and excess amounts can cause bone and tooth defects. The composition of the solder is also important. If it contains antimony, this metal is known to have reproductive effects and to be very toxic. In any case, we should supplement our minerals by eating a good diet rather than inhaling them as flux fumes. Staying away from came is also a good idea. For a hundred years we assumed that getting lead oxide on the skin from touching lead was not a problem. Then in 1991, a study financed by the Australian Government showed that lead dust, lead oxide, and lead nitrate skin absorb readily. Once lead is in the body--from skin absorption, ingestion or inhalation--the body can't tell the difference between the lead and calcium. As a result, we deposit lead in our bones. During pregnancy a woman mobilizes this stored lead and it can redeposit in the baby. To prevent this, it is important to keep calcium intake up so the baby will take up far more calcium than lead. Careful stained glass workers can expect to deliver perfectly normal babies. Lead at the low levels found in most stained glass workers are not likely to cause birth defects or obvious problems. What lead does at low levels is to reduce mental acuity. The I.Q.s of young children whose blood lead is 10 micrograms per deciliter have been shown to be lowered by lead. Since the fetus is even more susceptible, we assume that this effect occurs at even lower levels in the fetus. Congratulations on your pregnancy and my compliments on the care you are taking to give your baby the very best start. Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety Board IGGA 181 Thompson St., #23 New York, NY 10012-2586 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 20:04:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9jV8-0000kua; Sat, 5 Oct 96 20:03 PDT X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: Shirley Suter To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Re: PlastiCame Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 21:53:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct5.165358.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Suter's Stained Glass - (409) 687-3841 Precedence: bulk Elisabeth 'n Toby wrote: I know I sounded sceptical. That doesn't stop me from waiting to hear with great interest how you got on with your project. Hi Elisabeth, Bow-wow Toby! Oh please sound skeptical!!!!! I HATE PLASTIC!!!!! Quite frankly, I drink my wine from a wide-mouth canning jar (quart size, 100% glass)!!! The posting referring to the Barbie and Ken Dreamhouse was a joke that was evidently lost to those of you "beyond the great pond". Barbie and Ken are "horribly American" plastic dolls that have a pukey pink "Dreamhouse"....the entire line of products is enough to make a maggot gag! Evidently, this is one of the few "American Ass Warts" that happily has not made it to your neck of the woods. Consider yourself lucky in this respect. I too, am a traditionalist (when it comes to stained glass, but quite rebellous in other areas) and have already posted a sign in my studio stating that I will not work with plastic and will not repair any plastic-containing panels. I am afraid that the plasticame crap will be on our studio doorsteps in a few years with customers demanding them to be rebuilt in traditional lead came. I, for one, am not looking forward to seeing the faces of these customers when I quote the prices it will take to turn "these sows ears" into works of art. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your postings. Frankly, I look forward to them. You seem to know your business and your own mind, and I always enjoy your knowledge, wisdom and wit. Please keep it flowing in this direction! :) Let us know if you are able to visit our young country. I'd damned near pay money for the opportunity to meet you. Sipping from my quart jar in your honor! Shirley Suter Grapeland, Tx. P.S. Pitts, Hieroglyphics, Grey Dog, Chester (my cats) and Dildo (my armadillo) send their best to Toby!!! :) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 21:33:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9ksp-0000fBa; Sat, 5 Oct 96 21:32 PDT X-Path: c031.aone.net.au!Gordon.Newell From: Gordon.Newell@c031.aone.net.au To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Crashes (Not Glass Related) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 96 15:02:46 +1100 Message-ID: <199610060431.OAA17541@mail.mel.aone.net.au> References: <<1996Oct4.165235.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In <1996Oct4.165235.0>, on 10/04/96 at 09:52 PM, Shirley Suter said: >NOT GLASS RELATED! >Hi there Crashed Mail Folks!!! >If you are using Netscape 3.0 (I'm using it with no problems, knock on >wood), there are several other options to consider. >For you Windows 95 people, you can use Explorer available for downloading >at http://www.microsoft.com/ie/ >For the users of Windows 3.1, you can use Eudora available for >downloading at http://www.eudora.com And for those that use a REAL operating system, OS/2 includes WebExplorer . . . Sorry, I couldn't help myself :) ~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'-._.-'~ Gordon Newell, Chalcot Micro Systems Telephone: +61 3 9708 0134, Fax: +61 3 9222 1124, Mobile: 041 111 6636 OS/2 is D.E.A.D (Definitely Efficient And Durable) ~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'-._.-'~ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 5 22:24:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9lgc-0000j6a; Sat, 5 Oct 96 22:23 PDT X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz From: llutz To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 15:17:06 +1100 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.2176.0> References: <<1996Oct5.232939.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis [IGGA] wrote: > > Mike, > > I sympathize with your mail/crashing problem ... could you tell me if there's a > way (I may have asked this before) for you (and others?) to respond to messages Yes- just leave enough of the message to know what it is about- then cut the rest out and start typing- at least it works on Netscape 3 Larry from minore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 09:12:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9vop-0000Qia; Sun, 6 Oct 96 09:12 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 09:12:33 -0700 Message-ID: <199610061612.JAA14244@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Albert Lewis [IGGA] wrote: >> >> Mike, >> >> I sympathize with your mail/crashing problem ... could you tell me if there's a >> way (I may have asked this before) for you (and others?) to respond to messages >> on the group without repeating the message you're replying to? >> >> O >> Don't get me wrong ... I'm not angry, just hoping for a cleaner, leaner thread. >> > >in the option panel there is an auto quote feature, that does that >repeat thing. i personally like having it on, sometimes people write to if it's too long i just edit it down a bit. except >that can be annoying too. but....oh well.... > > >- At the very least edit down the extranious info such as all the signature text. I think leaving the salient part of the question is enough. ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 09:37:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9wC8-0000Nya; Sun, 6 Oct 96 09:36 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Glasseye exporting Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 12:41:17 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct6.54117.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk April Paine wrote: Will you be adding export features? > Dragonfly Software wrote: you can copy your design onto the Windows > Clipboard, and then paste . The product you see today will be quite > another thing in a few months! > > > > -Michael Wilk > > wilk@dfly.com Upgrades available in future. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 10:06:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9weX-0000eia; Sun, 6 Oct 96 10:06 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Waterwheel Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 13:09:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct6.6950.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi all, I am looking for any information on stained glass waterwheels. I'm working on a project now for a garden (about 5 feet). I need support information on the skeleton. Has anyone seen this done before? Any large 3-D info would be helpful (3 feet or larger). April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 10:16:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9wob-0000xna; Sun, 6 Oct 96 10:16 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Waterwheel Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 13:10:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct6.91042.0> References: <<1996Oct6.6950.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April Paine wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am looking for any information on stained glass waterwheels. I'm > working on a project now for a garden (about 5 feet). I need support > information on the skeleton. Has anyone seen this done before? > Any large 3-D info would be helpful (3 feet or larger). April > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the only thing i can think of right now is to either make or buy a wooden wheel of the size you want and cover it in glass, just make sure the glass is securly attached to the wood. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 10:28:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9wzY-0000kqa; Sun, 6 Oct 96 10:27 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Where's SpectrumGlass? Date: 06 Oct 96 13:26:20 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct6.172620.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I tried to take a look at http://www.SpectrumGlass.com (spelled case-sensitively, that way, as well as all lower case) and got a "No DNS Server for that address" message. Any ideas? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 12:25:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9ynp-0000IQa; Sun, 6 Oct 96 12:23 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlass? Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 15:18:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct6.111846.0> References: <<1996Oct6.172620.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis [IGGA] wrote: > > I tried to take a look at http://www.SpectrumGlass.com (spelled > case-sensitively, that way, as well as all lower case) and got a "No DNS Server > for that address" message. > > Any ideas? > > Albert > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glas just tried it right now, worked fine for me. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 13:12:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v9zXR-00014Ba; Sun, 6 Oct 96 13:11 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: Delphi Stained Glass To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlass? Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610062010.QAA10202@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert, >I tried to take a look at http://www.SpectrumGlass.com (spelled >case-sensitively, that way, as well as all lower case) and got a "No DNS Server >for that address" message. I noticed several comments similar to yours in rec.crafts.glass and Jim Matthews of Spectrum followed up with: >My tech support says your problem is a DNS server problem on your end, >and he wants to know if it is still happening. Try to email me, or >answer here. Also, try to get around the problem by using the IP >address: 206.63.62.43 instead of the URL http://www.SpectrumGlass.com. > >PS: some PC users using Netscape v1.2 are having difficulty, no >accessing the site, but using the imagemap on the home page. Upgrade! >Download for free via Netscape home page. If you are still having difficulties using this address, Spectrum's address is artglass@SpectrumGlass.com Hope this info is helpful. Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 13:50:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vA08q-0000xPa; Sun, 6 Oct 96 13:49 PDT X-Path: lodz.pdi.net!michu-g From: "=?Windows-1250?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" To: Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 22:48:10 +0100 Message-ID: <199610062049.VAA23051@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk O.K. Changed my date . Does it help? Greg ---------- > From: M. Savad > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: crashes > Date: 6 pa=9Fdziernika 1996 02:13 >=20 > Toby wrote: > >=20 > > Crashes due to Netscape 3? Originating in Europe? > > Hi Mike, > > I am using Netscape 2, so hope it's not me... > > Elisabeth 'n Toby > > ---- > > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > > ---- > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >=20 > that's ok it seems to be that one person greg. if your reading this > greg, change your date back to 1996, and post again, i want to find = out > if thats the whole problem, so we can stop this crash topic. >=20 > ---Mike Savad >=20 > --=20 > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 14:29:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vA0k8-0000yXa; Sun, 6 Oct 96 14:28 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 17:23:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct6.132332.0> References: <<199610062049.VAA23051@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk =?Windows-1250?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?= wrote: > > O.K. Changed my date . > Does it help? > Greg > ---------- > > From: M. Savad > > To: glass@bungi.com > > Subject: Re: crashes > > Date: 6 pa=9Fdziernika 1996 02:13 > >=20 > > Toby wrote: > > >=20 > > > Crashes due to Netscape 3? Originating in Europe? > > > Hi Mike, > > > I am using Netscape 2, so hope it's not me... > > > Elisabeth 'n Toby > > > ---- > > > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > > > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > > > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > > > ---- > > > ---- > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >=20 > > that's ok it seems to be that one person greg. if your reading this > > greg, change your date back to 1996, and post again, i want to find = > out > > if thats the whole problem, so we can stop this crash topic. > >=20 > > ---Mike Savad > >=20 > > --=20 > > Mike's Stained Glass > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah i got it without it crashing, changing the date helped. your from: is still a little messy looking. but other than that, that silly little date bug, was the problem. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 15:36:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vA1mn-0000g2a; Sun, 6 Oct 96 15:35 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: "J. Hendershott" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 15:38:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct6.83854.0> References: <<199610062049.VAA23051@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > O.K. Changed my date . > Does it help? > Greg Wow Greg, received your message with no problem. That seems to have fixed the problem on my end. Thanks for your efforts. Now I REALLY want to here from you! :-) Janie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 16:56:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vA32J-00011Ta; Sun, 6 Oct 96 16:55 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: 06 Oct 96 19:53:45 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct6.235345.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I noticed several comments similar to yours in rec.crafts.glass and Jim >Matthews of Spectrum followed up with: Well, *my problem turned out to be fingers much too speedy ... I entered the url without the www What *was I thinking? Nice site, though, isn't it? I'm looking forward to their photos of all of their glass. (I just had to see what they'd done with "clear" glass ... very, very nice work.) albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 17:11:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vA3Ge-0000jYa; Sun, 6 Oct 96 17:09 PDT X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: Shirley Suter To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 19:00:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct6.14055.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Suter's Stained Glass - (409) 687-3841 Precedence: bulk Hey Albert and all!!! I too, was impressed with the job that Spectrum Glass did on their web page. This will be a wonderful tool for my out-of-town and -state customers to be more involved in the selection of glass for their projects. I just hope the rest of the glass manufacturers will follow suit!!! This could eliminate my sending glass samples to those "most picky" customers who enjoy being VERY involved with the creation of their stained glass commissions. Also, the timing couldn't be better. My wholesaler is running Spectrum on sale this month.....Definite inspiration to rush out and purchase more glass! THANK YOU SPECTRUM!!!!! Shirley Suter Grapeland, Tx. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 17:50:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vA3t8-0000maa; Sun, 6 Oct 96 17:49 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 20:49:35 -0400 Message-ID: <9610070049.AA29892@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >you wrote:Hey Albert and all!!! > >I too, was impressed with the job that Spectrum Glass did on their web >page. This will be a wonderful tool for my out-of-town and -state >customers to be more involved in the selection of glass for their >projects.>> >I just wish I could view it......................... I am having a major problem getting to view this site. Since Albert forgot the www. i double check everything. I have the URL right but when it goes to load it freezes up my system. Funny no other site does this. I am using Netscape 3.0. Any suggestions??? my best, pj frozin in time ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 19:00:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vA4ye-0000xCa; Sun, 6 Oct 96 18:59 PDT X-Path: scv.net!fullspec From: Kay Allen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 18:58:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961007015819.006946a0@mail.scv.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 20:03:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vA5xX-0000jGa; Sun, 6 Oct 96 20:02 PDT X-Path: InterAccess.com!David From: "David J. Loundy" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 20:39:53 -0500 Message-ID: References: <<1996Oct6.235345.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 7:53 PM -0400 10/6/96, you wrote: > >I noticed several comments similar to yours in rec.crafts.glass and Jim > >Matthews of Spectrum followed up with: > >Well, *my problem turned out to be fingers much too speedy ... I entered >the url >without the www What *was I thinking? > >Nice site, though, isn't it? I'm looking forward to their photos of all of >their glass. (I just had to see what they'd done with "clear" glass ... very, >very nice work.) As an aside, one neat thing about fairly recent versions of netscape, is that you can leave out the "http://www" and the ".com" and Netscape will add it for you. For instance, if you type "Loundy" into the location box, it'll pull up my web page. Same thing for "Spectrumglass" or "yahoo" or "Apple" and the like. --David-- _______________________________________________________________________ David J. Loundy | E-Mail: David@Loundy.com | WWW: http://www.Loundy.com/ "Don't forget:Apple and Honda| Phone: (847) 926-9744 have the same size market | Listserv (for my Technology Law column): share in their respective | Send a message reading "subscribe" businesses" --G. Kawasaki | to Loundy-request@netural.com _______________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 20:03:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vA5xX-0000dea; Sun, 6 Oct 96 20:02 PDT X-Path: InterAccess.com!David From: "David J. Loundy" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Coke and Paint: was: Indian chief design (fwd) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 21:10:50 -0500 Message-ID: References: <<199610021827.OAA25930@vixa.voyager.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sorry about the delay in responding... Mandatory disclaimer to make my liability insurance provider happy: The following is not legal advice, see a lawyer to discuss your particular situation, the following does not create any attorney/client relationship, your milage may vary, contents may have settled during shipping. At 2:27 PM -0400 10/2/96, Stephanie Braman wrote: >>>>(So, here's a hypothetical...a client asks you to make Mickey Mouse >>>>suncatcher. Will pay, say, $40. Do you even try to get permission >>>>from Disney?) >>> >>>In instances like this, you could always sell a copy of the book or pattern >>>along with it. Not necessarily practical, but it does fall within the >>>letter of the copyright law. >> >>I'm not clear about what you are saying when you say sell a copy of the >book >or pattern with the object. How does this work? > >I'm saying to sell an original of the pattern or book along with the >finished item. Very much similar to having a customer select a pattern and >purchasing it, and then asking to make up this design for them. The end >result is that only one stained glass piece has been made up for every >pattern purchased. I'm not suggesting to split up any of the pattern books >or portfolios and parceling them out, but to sell the entire publication >intact. The argument here is that by selling a copy of the book along with the piece, there is no displaced sale of the licensed book-- the copyright holder is therefore not loosing a sale. This would work to support one of the "fair use" factors of the U.S. copyright law. As to the sale of the book along with the suncatcher, it does not clearly fall within the letter of the law-- as I mentioned in my last post on the topic, the law is not all that clear. If the book is initially an infringement (a possibility) than anything made from the book would probably also be an infringement, regardless of whether you also sold a copy of the (infringing) book along with the glass. If the book is appropriately authorized, then we are back to the issue of implied licenses-- presumably by selling a pattern book, you are impliedly being given permission to use the pattern book for the purpose for which it was intended, making the glass pieces for which there are patterns in the book. _If_ the implied license is that you can only make one piece from each pattern, then yes, transferring the book makes sense. The next question is, how much further can you take this-- is there some type of limitation on whether you can make pieces to sell, or only for personal consumption? Who knows! But, if the permission is implied to make the piece to sell, and there is no implied "one pattern, ane piece" limitation, then transferring a copy of the book as well would be irrelevant. Yep, lots of "ifs." >In the long run, it would probably be more inexpensive to contact the owner >of the copyright directly and coming to an agreement if you desire to mass >produce any of the designs. If the alternative is buying a copy of the book each time-- probably. >>And if you've designed your own Mickey...just to carry this along? >>(I suspect that if you tried to get permission, you'd NEVER hear >>back, but if you did, the answer's be "NO") > >If your original design of Mickey in anyway resembles the Disney's >copyrighted design, you will still need to "pay" for using their design. I >heard of a horror story where someone was selling finished items which were >recognizable as Disney designs, and by law the Disney representative was >able to confiscate ALL of the offending items and also sued this individual. Disney is particularly litigious. Part of the problem is not so much the copyright, but the trademark in the designs. If you do not police your trademarks, you can lose your trademarks. Instead of letting this happen, they just make photocopies of their cease and desist letters on their Xerox brand photocopiers, while blotting the tears from their eyes with Kleenex brand tissues while soothing their tension headaches with a Bayer aspirin. >I don't think that the answer from Disney would be no, but the royalty price >would be a very high one and wouldn't be able to justify making only a >couple of this particular piece. You never know until you ask. >I would like to say in closing that I'm not an expert on copyright laws, but >this is a frequent question and I'm learning a little at a time. If I am in >anyway incorrect, *please* let me know. I am trying to be! ;-) I hope this answer helps a bit-- it is really a fairly complex subject. As my copyright professor in law school put it, "Copyright laws are the one set of laws people violate on a regular basis without even knowing it." --David-- _______________________________________________________________________ David J. Loundy | E-Mail: David@Loundy.com | WWW: http://www.Loundy.com/ "Don't forget:Apple and Honda| Phone: (847) 926-9744 have the same size market | Listserv (for my Technology Law column): share in their respective | Send a message reading "subscribe" businesses" --G. Kawasaki | to Loundy-request@netural.com _______________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 6 22:22:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vA88M-0000zma; Sun, 6 Oct 96 22:21 PDT X-Path: gte.net!leestat From: leestat To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 01:19:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct6.181929.0> References: <<199610062049.VAA23051@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Lee Boe Precedence: bulk =?Windows-1250?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?= wrote: > > O.K. Changed my date . > Does it help? > Greg That seems to have fixed it, wonder what all the computers and programs are going to do on Jan 2, 2000???????????/ By the way, I don't have any sample sets, does anyone know of a "Turqouise" colored opal or whispy??? Let me know name of maker and # if you have it. Thanks Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 02:59:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vACST-0000h3a; Mon, 7 Oct 96 02:58 PDT X-Path: vladmire.voiceisp.net!mhooper From: mhooper@vladmire.voiceisp.net (Mark Hooper) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 05:55:15 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 8:49 PM 10/6/96, pj friend wrote: >>you wrote:Hey Albert and all!!! >> >>I too, was impressed with the job that Spectrum Glass did on their web >>page. This will be a wonderful tool for my out-of-town and -state >>customers to be more involved in the selection of glass for their >>projects.>> >>I just wish I could view it......................... >I am having a major problem getting to view this site. >Since Albert forgot the www. i double check everything. I have the URL >right but >when it goes to load it freezes up my system. Funny no other site does this. >I am using Netscape 3.0. Any suggestions??? > >my best, >pj >frozin in time Gee I'm glad to hear that someone else is having the same problem as I...Starting to think it was a Mac problem! Anyone have ANY ideas on this? _____ O o [_/-\_] o (0)====== --ooO--------Ooo-- Mark ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 03:31:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vACxf-00016Ka; Mon, 7 Oct 96 03:30 PDT X-Path: nethawk.com!1091 From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 06:35:48 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >Gee I'm glad to hear that someone else is having the same problem as >I...Starting to think it was a Mac problem! > >Anyone have ANY ideas on this? I'm using a Mac and had no problems. Sue 1091@nethawk.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 04:10:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vADZT-0000fZa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 04:10 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Copyright Date: 07 Oct 96 07:08:15 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct7.11815.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Disney is particularly litigious. Part of the problem is not so much the >copyright, but the trademark in the designs. If you do not police your >trademarks, you can lose your trademarks. This may be an old wives' tale (sorry, old wives), but as I understand it, Kleenex did *not take Disney's stance and now you can refer to a tissue as a "klennex" with impunity. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 04:42:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAE4V-0000eHa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 04:42 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Bevels-Fumes Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 07:39:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.33945.0> References: <<199610031756.NAA01018@vixa.voyager.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Delphi Stained Glass wrote: > > April, > > >I am still looking for software. We have ordered the Glasseye from > >Dragonfly. I decided Monday since we haven't gotten good reviews on the > >others and my Coreldraw 4 has a few bugs that it was worth having it > >consolidated in one program. > > Have you received this software yet? I have had mine for 3 weeks now and > for the most part have been very satisfied with results from this program. > After installation, I completed a small panel (less than 12" in diameter) in > less than 10 minutes of use and had a great time to boot! The only thing > that I haven't been completely satisfied with is the fact the files are > saved as ".eye" and I really would rather have been able to save them as > ".tif" or ".gif" and hopefully been able to use them with other programs. > > Today, I have been playing with the demo version of the new software from > American Bevel. It's pretty slick. I really like the fact that there are > so many base bevel shapes available to create with. This version only > contained 8 clusters, but someone here mentioned to me today that the most > recent "registered" version contains over 150 clusters. Very impressed with > the possibility of "coloring" the finished design and that this program > recognizes ".gif", ".tif", ".jpg" formats. Since Spectrum Glass now has an > established, and very well put together site now > (http://www.SpectrumGlass.com) and shows actual representations of some of > their glass, maybe they will consider making these files available to "plug" > into the the color palette for this program. I realize that it's only one > manufacturer, but it would be a beginning..... > Stephanie, That was the whole idea why I was so excited after the Nashville Show, Richard said that all of the manufacturers had agreed to provide samples of their glass to plug into this program. Looks like Spectrum is the only one making any progress toward that goal. I will wait until the color chips are included with the program, that was the main attraction for me. Right now I have other means of computer design that do use .jpg, pcx, and other formats. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 05:22:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAEgS-0000pUa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 05:21 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: doberman Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 08:19:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.4190.0> References: <<1.5.4.32.19961004163213.00677c18@POP3.newtech.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk FEFranks wrote: > > Does anyone know where I can find a pattern of a doberman head. I've seen > other dogs but have been unable to find one of a doberman. Thanks I have a catalog that lists a pattern for a doberman from Animal Images from Dick Keane Studios, this was in a Hudson Stained Glass catalog from several years ago, and you would have to contact them to see if it is still available....product number at that time was 935 0002...800# is 800-431-2964 Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 05:43:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAF0B-0000Wua; Mon, 7 Oct 96 05:41 PDT X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 08:38:51 EDT Message-ID: <961007.084034.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I found the Spectrum pages to be extememly slow. Who can wait five minutes to see a picture of a sheet of glass? Could have been the traffic, the time of day...What I saw looked good, but didn't see enough. I'll try again when I have time. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 06:00:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAFH2-00016Ya; Mon, 7 Oct 96 05:59 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Subject: eudora Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 06:55:51 -0600 Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19961006200511.225714f4@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi; I highly reccomend Eudora.... you can download Eudora Light off the net. It is much nicer than netscape for email!!! My two cents worth. Meg ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 07:34:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAGkz-0000k8a; Mon, 7 Oct 96 07:34 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:33:59 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.143359.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 08:19 AM 10/7/96 +0000, you wrote: >=?Windows-1250?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?= wrote: >> >> O.K. Changed my date . >> Does it help? >> Greg > >That seems to have fixed it, wonder what all the computers and programs >are going to do on Jan 2, 2000???????????/ > >By the way, I don't have any sample sets, does anyone know of a >"Turqouise" colored opal or whispy??? >Let me know name of maker and # if you have it. Thanks > >Lee Boe >Rain-Boe's Creations >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the best turquoise i know of is bullseye 0116, nice catspaw texture. also wissmach makes a 250-D that is a tourquois/white wisspy. good luck mike peck summit stained glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 08:24:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAHWW-0000lSa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 08:23 PDT X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!wrightk5 From: Kristen Wright To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlass? Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 11:26:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.4265.0> References: <<1996Oct6.172620.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis [IGGA] wrote: > > I tried to take a look at http://www.SpectrumGlass.com try http://www.spectrumglass.com/ for Spectrum Glass two other glass manufacturers that I have found are Wissmach glass "http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/wissmach/home.html" and Kokomo Opalescent Glass at "http://www.kog.com/" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 08:28:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAHaW-0000tJa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 08:27 PDT X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!wrightk5 From: Kristen Wright To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlass? Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 11:29:51 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.42951.0> References: <<199610062010.QAA10202@vixa.voyager.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk "No DNS Server" errors sometimes mean that too many people are on the server. All you need to do is keep trying until you are able to get in. Kristen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 08:51:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAHx6-0000wza; Mon, 7 Oct 96 08:50 PDT X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!wrightk5 From: Kristen Wright To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 11:53:30 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.45330.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >>I just wish I could view it......................... > >I am having a major problem getting to view this site. > >when it goes to load it freezes up my system. Funny no other site does this. Have you cleaned your caches lately? Spectrum has many pictures and if you don't have enough RAM, the churnning of your hard drive may cause the system to freezebecause the memory is used up. Some suggestion are 1 make sure that netscape is the only program running when you view sites with lots and lots of pictures. By no other program running, I mean programs like Word that are always auto doing something that is taking up RAM space. 2. You may need to clean your memory cache before you use these sites. Remember, pictures take up more memory than normal text. 3. If this does happen clean your cache first thing when you open netscape. Finally, don't think this is only happening to you. I have used several computeres throughout the university and have experienced similar problems. It seems that no one knows how to clean up the cache. Kristen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 09:07:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAIBg-00010Ya; Mon, 7 Oct 96 09:05 PDT X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!wrightk5 From: Kristen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 12:08:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.586.0> References: <<961007.084034.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > I found the Spectrum pages to be extememly slow. My personal computer is rather slow and does not have enough memory, So to solve this problem I turn the option off for loading pictures. I even turn this option off when I use the super fast university computers. When I want to view a picture I just click on it. I want patience and I want it now. Kristen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 09:47:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAIpx-00013Ma; Mon, 7 Oct 96 09:47 PDT X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu (Kathe R. McDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: For Andrea Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199610071647.JAA16338@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Andrea, don't forget to pack for "winter" when you come over. Your summer is our winter. I always have a hard time figuring out what to wear when I go "down under." Kathe R. McDonald Office of Curricular Support "Aint no time to hate." J. Garcia 1995 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 13:33:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAMHJ-0000ZGa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 13:27 PDT X-Path: aol.com!RTMEMT From: RTMEMT@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:27:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.122725.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Mike, I also agree with Albert: >I sympathize with your mail/crashing problem ... could you tell me if there's a >way (I may have asked this before) for you (and others?) to respond to messages >on the group without repeating the message you're replying to? I like to efficiently zip thru my messages, and am always tempted to completely skip yours (and some others) because you don't bother to be succinct. Sorry to offend...none intended....just frustrated re-reading same messages over and over. Thanks in advance for being considerate of the group. Rita ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 13:56:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAMiT-0000u8a; Mon, 7 Oct 96 13:55 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: It's not "klennex"! Date: 07 Oct 96 16:54:40 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct7.205440.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Kleenex did *not take Disney's stance and now you can refer to a tissue >as a "klennex" with impunity. Oh, you know what I meant! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 13:57:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAMjg-0000kXa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 13:57 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Emptying caches quickly Date: 07 Oct 96 16:54:43 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct7.205443.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >It seems that no one knows how to clean up the cache. Kristen, Since I run two versions of Netscape, CompuServe's Mosaic, AmericaOnLine's browser, I'd very quickly run into space problems, so I wrote a batch file that's run from the DOS prompt to clean up the disk in a couple of nanoseconds: cd\netscape deltree /y cache del *.hst md cache cd\aol30 deltree /y cache md cache cd\cserve\mosaic deltree /y cache md cache cd\tap del xfer.log cd\ cls I called it NOC.BAT (for "no caches") and put it in my PATH. You doubtlessly know how to do that, but I'd be happy to tell anyone else who wants to know. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 14:24:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAN9K-0001ICa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 14:23 PDT X-Path: interserv.com!ebsousa From: ebsousa@interserv.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Plasticame Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:22:56 -0700 Message-ID: <199610072122.AA28523@relay.interserv.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I for one am interested in learning more about plasticame, not for my own work but as a potentially safe way to introduce my 8 year old to Stained Glass. Perhaps even go to the school art class to show the kids, something I definetly wouldn't do with soldering. Donna S. Avalon Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 15:40:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAOL3-0001CWa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 15:39 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: crashes Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 18:33:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.143359.0> References: <<1996Oct6.181929.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk leestat wrote: > > =?Windows-1250?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?= wrote: > > > > O.K. Changed my date . > > Does it help? > > Greg > > That seems to have fixed it, wonder what all the computers and programs > are going to do on Jan 2, 2000???????????/ > > By the way, I don't have any sample sets, does anyone know of a > "Turqouise" colored opal or whispy??? > Let me know name of maker and # if you have it. Thanks > > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass spectrum has a turqouise or teal whispy. you'll have to check thier site http://www.spectrumglass.com ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 15:52:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAOX2-00010Ya; Mon, 7 Oct 96 15:52 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 18:47:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.144736.0> References: <<9610070049.AA29892@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk pj friend wrote: > > >you wrote:Hey Albert and all!!! > > > >I too, was impressed with the job that Spectrum Glass did on their web > >page. This will be a wonderful tool for my out-of-town and -state > >customers to be more involved in the selection of glass for their > >projects.>> > >I just wish I could view it......................... > I am having a major problem getting to view this site. > Since Albert forgot the www. i double check everything. I have the URL > right but > when it goes to load it freezes up my system. Funny no other site does this. > I am using Netscape 3.0. Any suggestions??? > > my best, > pj > frozin in time > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass are you using any type of plugin that interfere's with the graphics? that's usally the first thing i check into. try also to erase the cache in netscape, maybe there's some bad graphic in there. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 16:00:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAOeb-00012Pa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 16:00 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Copyright Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 18:55:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.145521.0> References: <<1996Oct7.11815.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis [IGGA] wrote: > > >Disney is particularly litigious. Part of the problem is not so much the > >copyright, but the trademark in the designs. If you do not police your > >trademarks, you can lose your trademarks. > > This may be an old wives' tale (sorry, old wives), but as I understand it, > Kleenex did *not take Disney's stance and now you can refer to a tissue as a > "klennex" with impunity. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass maybe... but that is a common thing, it not like i would go out and say i'm going out disney'ing or something like that when i have a good expensive time ;). it's like calling a PC and IBM everyone knows what your talking about, but there are alot more companies then just IBM. or something like that. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 16:10:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAOnw-00018Xa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 16:09 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 19:03:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct7.15352.0> References: <<1996Oct7.122725.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk RTMEMT@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > I also agree with Albert: > > >I sympathize with your mail/crashing problem ... could you tell me if > there's a > >way (I may have asked this before) for you (and others?) to respond to > messages > >on the group without repeating the message you're replying to? > > I like to efficiently zip thru my messages, and am always tempted to > completely skip yours (and some others) because you don't bother to be > succinct. Sorry to offend...none intended....just frustrated re-reading same > messages over and over. Thanks in advance for being considerate of the > group. > > Rita > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass personnaly i don't care either way if you read it or not, that's up to you, just don't re-read those parts, make the quoted parts bold, i don't like it when people don't quote the message and i have no idea at all what their talking about. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 17:11:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAPl2-00016ta; Mon, 7 Oct 96 17:10 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: 07 Oct 96 20:08:14 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct8.0814.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >personnaly i don't care either way if you read it or not, that's up to >you, just don't re-read those parts, make the quoted parts bold, i don't >like it when people don't quote the message and i have no idea at all >what their talking about. I guess there's not much one can say to you, Mike, given that kind of an attitude on your part. Ask for a little courtesy, a little thoughtfulness, and whaddya get? A slap inna face. Nice. Very nice. That's enough for me, thank you. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 18:31:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAR0I-0000xDa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 18:30 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: was plasticame - thanks for the "Rose" Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:04:09 +0000 Message-ID: <199610080129.CAA03948@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Shirley (Suter) your posting to Group of 5 Oct:., Thanks for your "Rose". Am sometimes worried that my comments & observations might get up somebody's nose.... It's never intended. Often kick myself and think I ought to be cutting glass in my solitude instead.... Yes, the "Barbie & Ken " joke was in deed lost "in translation", though the "Barbie-Doll" did cross my mind. Even funnier though, was the mental picture of a "maggot gagging". That really made my day! Got the picture, loud & clear! :-)) If any of you have visited my WEB-page recently, you may have noticed that at the bottom of the "Award" page is a listing of some of my teaching venues and more importantly "On The Drawing Board" is the proposed visit to CHARTRES in France next Easter.... Having a Meeting with the Co-Ordinating College later on this month to discuss the matter in greater detail. Will report back. "Kris", my Computer Guru" is also searching for an appropriate more detailed NET-site for Chartres Cathedral to include to my "Links". Mike (Savad), paid a visit to your site last night. Loved the cars! Also thought your approach to explaining the various copper-foils & their uses very thoughtful and comprehensive. Dear Hobbyists & Learners!: Pay his site a visit! As regards "infinite loops", must admit I agree with Albert..... Your quotes do tend to be v-e-r-y long. ( My own tend perhaps to be too short, I am told). As regards visiting the "Young Country"; I am green with envy at Andrea's imminent departure - I am working on it!! It won't be next Easter, that's for sure. I will be "ruminating" on the thought for a while and might yet surprise you, after all.... Would I get a visa for a start!!?? (and yes, Andrea!! HEED Kathe's advice re winter!! - BUT, where, oh where are the details of YOUR 2 Aussies' UK programmes!! I am still waiting) Stick to the Quart Jar Glass, Shirley! A girl to my own heart!! Salut!! (A few further "Off-Group" comments I will make to you directly...) Elisabeth 'nToby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 21:06:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vATQr-0000IQa; Mon, 7 Oct 96 21:06 PDT X-Path: sympatico.ca!taylor_buckner From: "H. Taylor Buckner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: no messages Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 00:05:47 -0400 Message-ID: <199610080405.AAA22480@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I haven't seen any new posting to the bungi list since late last week. Is there a problem or has everyone run dry at the same time? Jennifer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 7 21:47:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAU4e-0000Yka; Mon, 7 Oct 96 21:47 PDT X-Path: mars.ark.com!ggjcon From: ggjcon@mars.ark.com (Gordon Conway) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: glass Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 21:47:09 -0700 Message-ID: <199610080447.VAA20620@mars.ark.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thank you for adding me to your list, I have recieved all the information I need for now, so could you please remove me from the stained glass list until further notice. Thank You Sincerely, Georgena Conway ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 01:37:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAXfO-0000dua; Tue, 8 Oct 96 01:37 PDT X-Path: juno.com!roadrunner47 From: roadrunner47@juno.com (Jacque E Smith) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Indian chief design Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:03:41 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct8.8341.0> References: <<199609280559.AAA19698@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Indian chief body shot ...in Southwest expressions (first book) by Gloria Fohr Indian chief portrait (panel) Southwest expressions book 2 by Gloria Fohr I am sure there are a lot of others out there..might look thru the delphi catalog at the pattern section. Roadrunner.. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 02:38:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAYbp-0000dea; Tue, 8 Oct 96 02:37 PDT X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Brass Came Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 23:05:25 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct8.3525.0> References: <<1996Oct6.235345.0>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I've never worked with brass came. Is there anything special to know about it? Does it tarnish like zinc? Is there something special you put on it after it's finished (like say, to frame a panel)? Thanks, Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 05:51:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAbcj-0000lEa; Tue, 8 Oct 96 05:51 PDT X-Path: aol.com!GlasCrafts From: GlasCrafts@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: ?????????? Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:50:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct8.45053.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk maybe... but that is a common thing, it not like i would go out and say i'm going out disney'ing or something like that when i have a good expensive time ;). it's like calling a PC and IBM everyone knows what your talking about, but there are alot more companies then just IBM. or something like that. ---Mike Savad What ARE you talking about?????? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 06:11:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAbw7-0000rna; Tue, 8 Oct 96 06:11 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:10:56 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct8.131056.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 03:05 AM 10/8/96 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, > > I've never worked with brass came. Is there anything special to >know about it? Does it tarnish like zinc? Is there something special >you put on it after it's finished (like say, to frame a panel)? > >Thanks, Jerri > all hard cames,( ie brass, copper and zinc) work pretty similar. i think copper is a littler harder metal than the others so it tends to be more tenacious. it helps to have a cutoff saw like jarmac or gryphon, a miter block and hacksaw will wear you down eventually. also a good came bender is worth the investment, but if your short on cash, cut a round "wheel" from 1/8" plywood using a hole saw, then wrap the heart of the came around the wheel to get the arc you want. it's a little slow, but i did it that way for years before i broke down and bought a came bender. if you don't use something to butt up with the channel heart, the came will roll to one side while you bend it and will be unusable. try to cut any corners with a 45 degree miter, don't just butt the end of one to the side of the other, sure sign of an amature. when soldering, use a hot iron, ie 800-900 degrees. this will get the came hot much quicker and allow the solder to flow completely into the joint ........ but move quickly because if you heat brass or copper too high, it will discolor, so try soldering a few scrape pieces of came first. good luck, and i'll be interested to see others reply to this one. mike peck summit stained glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 07:05:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAcmi-0000Yaa; Tue, 8 Oct 96 07:05 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 10:00:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct8.6039.0> References: <<1996Oct8.0814.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis [IGGA] wrote: > > >personnaly i don't care either way if you read it or not, that's up to > >you, just don't re-read those parts, make the quoted parts bold, i don't > >like it when people don't quote the message and i have no idea at all > >what their talking about. > > I guess there's not much one can say to you, Mike, given that kind of an > attitude on your part. Ask for a little courtesy, a little thoughtfulness, and > whaddya get? A slap inna face. Nice. Very nice. > > That's enough for me, thank you. > > Albert > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass you know i've been getting other e-mail about the subject, don't get me wrong or anything, i'm not NEGATIVE or anything. basically everyone is telling me that i should waste my time editing down a text, when other's don't do it either, i don't see the problem just scroll down to the bottom of the screen, and if your reader does'nt do that, get another reader. but don't take that the wrong way. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 07:14:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAcut-0000y7a; Tue, 8 Oct 96 07:13 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Brass Came Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 10:18:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct8.31829.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Mike Peck wrote: > > Jerri asked, > > I've never worked with brass came. Is there anything special when working with brass came?. Mike answered, It helps to have a cutoff saw like jarmac or gryphon, a miter block and hacksaw will wear you down eventually. also a good came bender is worth the investment. April asked, Which saw do you like? What is the best came bender anyone knows of? What solder did you use with the brass came? Will the solder points tarnish like brass if outside (that would be desirable)? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 07:20:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAd0g-0000y6a; Tue, 8 Oct 96 07:19 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ?????????? Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 10:15:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct8.61511.0> References: <<1996Oct8.45053.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk GlasCrafts@aol.com wrote: > > maybe... but that is a common thing, it not like i would go out and say > i'm going out disney'ing or something like that when i have a good > expensive time ;). it's like calling a PC and IBM everyone knows what > your talking about, but there are alot more companies then just IBM. or > something like that. > > ---Mike Savad > > What ARE you talking about?????? > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass what do mean what am i talking about, i was replying to another text, it should have quoted, and if it did'nt , then i guess in this form it just does'nt make any sense at all, does it? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 07:40:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAdKY-0000oya; Tue, 8 Oct 96 07:40 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 10:34:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct8.63422.0> References: <<1996Oct8.31829.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April Paine wrote: > > Mike Peck wrote: > > > > Jerri asked, > > > I've never worked with brass came. Is there anything special when working with brass came?. > > Mike answered, > It helps to have a cutoff saw like jarmac or gryphon, a miter block and > hacksaw will wear you down eventually. also a good came bender is worth > the investment. > > April asked, > > Which saw do you like? What is the best came bender anyone knows of? > What solder did you use with the brass came? Will the solder points > tarnish like brass if outside (that would be desirable)? this is what i have: for cutting came and other small thin metal items i use the Glasscor Mini Miter II that's a great tool to have, the first on was kind of a pain to use because the blade was directly driven which meant the motor was in the way if you tried to miter a certain direction, the new one does'nt. anyway, the came bender i have (though don't use very often, it just another toy for my collection :) ) is the Cascade Came Bender, which i think is the only came bender that's around, or atleast that i know of. i don't think it makes a big difference which solder you use. i would probably use 50-50 for it's strength and cheapness. if your worried about whitning, try (after cleaning) coating the points of solder with nail polish, then with a brass marker, so the solder will blend better. and as for brass tarnishing, hmmm... i wonder what door manufactures do? there came stays shiny for a long time, i guess they use laquer or something, but that would'nt solder too well, i would probably just use my chem-o-pro glass wax, that should be fine. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 07:46:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAdQV-0000fna; Tue, 8 Oct 96 07:46 PDT X-Path: aol.com!RTMEMT From: RTMEMT@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Back to SG? Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:45:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct8.64511.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert, >I guess there's not much one can say to you, Mike, given that kind of an >attitude on your part. Ask for a little courtesy, a little thoughtfulness, and >whaddya get? A slap inna face. Nice. Very nice. I like your style; always so diplomatic. I prefer the high road myself. But my partner is trying to teach me Irish Diplomacy: Tell someone where to go in such a way as they enjoy the trip. I haven't quite perfected it yet. Glenna has already stated the obvious: some people just don't get it. "Salient" must be a foreign word. In this case I think it's just laziness hiding behind a bad memory. Oh well, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Mom always said: don't beat a dead horse, our time is too precious. So for those of us with full schedules, it appears the only effective answer is a few keystrokes on that delete button. (Sorry, couldn't help myself.) End of story. Back to SG, which I think used to be the topic of this list. I'm designing a prairie style window for a customer now using Youghiogheny Stipple. It's a great joy because both style and glass are my personal favorites. No cranky customer or artisan here! ...But I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep, and miles to go before I sleep. Rita ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 09:04:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAedy-0000v9a; Tue, 8 Oct 96 09:04 PDT X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came and Brass Markers? Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 11:52:53 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct8.155253.0> References: <<1996Oct8.31829.0>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks Mike and Mike for the help. Where do you find the brass markers? I've heard of them, but never seen one. Maybe I've overlooked them in my catalogs. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 09:17:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAeqW-0000vYa; Tue, 8 Oct 96 09:17 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 16:14:00 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct8.16140.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >April asked, > >Which saw do you like? What is the best came bender anyone knows of? >What solder did you use with the brass came? Will the solder points >tarnish like brass if outside (that would be desirable)? >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > i just read mike savad's reply to this and must agree with his assessment of the smaller came saws. we originally bought a jarmac and it worked fine, but it is difficlut to use on small cuts because the table is so small that you need another person on the end of a six foot piece of came in order to handle it SAFELY! the jarmac seems to be real durable, and the blades have a good lifetime, but it is akward at best because it is so small. the gryphon is a good saw, but you can't see the mark on your came when your trying to cut to a specific length because the plastic housing hangs over too far. you have to get on your knees to see underneath the housing. my other complaint is that the blades do not last long at all, we use 2-3 per month, and they are not cheap, and only available from gryphon (imagine that!). i like the "chop saw" design much better than the "table tops", but i think there are still improvements that could be made to the gryphon. brass is brass and as long as it is exposed to oxygen, it will tarnish. door manufacturers that use the brass came will usually sandwich the piece between two tempered sheets of clear plate, then flood the inside with argon or nitrogen to flush out the oxygen. other than that, i have heard of some coating with polyurethane or a good coat of carnuba wax that seems to retard the tarnish, but you should plan on a good cleaning every 1-2 years. brass, and copper is high maintenance material, zinc and lead are no maintenance ........ that argument in itself tends to sway my customers! mike peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 10:37:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAg5l-0000bIa; Tue, 8 Oct 96 10:37 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 12:33:26 -0500 Message-ID: <199610081733.MAA06339@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 11:05 PM 10/7/96 EDT, Jerri M Roey wrote: >Hi, > > I've never worked with brass came. Is there anything special to >know about it? Does it tarnish like zinc? Is there something special >you put on it after it's finished (like say, to frame a panel)? > >Thanks, Jerri Hi Jerri, The first piece I did was with brass *crowned* came that is brass over lead which I think is a little easier to work with...it doesn't kink as easily and the lead heart cushions the glass. Brass came will facet your glass on occasion when you insert it in the came. These panels were installed in door transoms in 1984 they now look pretty crappy the brass is all tarnished with green streaks the gold marker is gone off the solder joints. They were just installed against the existing glass from the inside. Ofcourse all it would take to renew them would be to take them down buff out the brass and repaint the solder joints. So I guess 10-12 years aint too bad. To Mike S, Most of the commercial brass camed panels are installed inside of thermopanes, and are pretty much immune to moisture. I think thats why they hold up. We'll see what happens to them after time when they are in a *leaker*. ---------------------------------------------------- I personally do not care for brass camed panels It is a material that has been adopted by commercial door and window manufacturers who produce a lot of mediocre designs It's a pain to work with... always charge a substantial premiun if you do use it...its a real time sucker if your doing alot of curves I can hardly think of one good reason why one would want the matrix of a SG panel to be highly reflective I will continue to steer clients away from it as best I can. Although it seems like more folks are asking after it. The only brass panels I have done that I can say that I really liked were a set of kitchen cabinet panels all straight line 20's looking geometrics in deep green, amber and red textured cathedrals against mahogoney stained frames. That application held some appeal for me. Len OBTW.. if you don't have a came saw and you have a table saw you can take an old fine tooth plywood blade put it in backwards (teeth to the rear) and cut hard came with it in a pinch ...BE CAREFUL! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 14:34:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAje6-0000nMa; Tue, 8 Oct 96 14:24 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came and Brass Markers? Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 17:20:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct8.132013.0> References: <<1996Oct8.155253.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerri M Roey wrote: > > Thanks Mike and Mike for the help. Where do you find the brass markers? > I've heard of them, but never seen one. Maybe I've overlooked them in my > catalogs. > > Jerri > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass welp, i've gotten mine at pearl paint and at a local craft store, however you can probably find it in a good stationary and office supply store. they run about 2-3 bucks. ---Mike Savad oh yeah choose ex fine, so you can use it to mark on dark glass. -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 15:15:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAkQK-0000XLa; Tue, 8 Oct 96 15:14 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Back to SG? Date: 08 Oct 96 18:13:16 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct8.221316.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Mom always said: don't beat a dead horse, our time is too precious. Yes. Personally, I always liked "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig." O'course, I'm talking about one made of glass. Albert __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 15:16:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAkRY-0000Maa; Tue, 8 Oct 96 15:16 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: 08 Oct 96 18:13:15 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct8.221315.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I can hardly think of one good reason why one would want the matrix of a >SG panel to be highly reflective Len, I bite my lip *all the time to keep from saying anything about all of the interest in bright, shiny cames. Yours is the first comment I've seen (or that I can remember, senility to one side) that actually comes down on the side of patinated leads. Good for you. I keep having this vision of Chartres or Notre Dame (or, closer to home, St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC) with shiny cames. Ouch! Of course, it's a matter of taste and mine just doesn't happen to run toward shininess. Others' do, obviously, and that's fine. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 16:12:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAlJK-0000kBa; Tue, 8 Oct 96 16:11 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 19:11:29 -0400 Message-ID: <9610082311.AA02090@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike wrote: > >are you using any type of plugin that interfere's with the graphics? >that's usally the first thing i check into. try also to erase the cache >in netscape, maybe there's some bad graphic in there. > >---Mike Savad > Mike, I clear my caches always...thats not the problem. I have no poblems at any other site but this one. And I view some pretty heavy sites!! Got a few thing I need to check out. Thanks all for your suggestions. my best, pj> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 16:59:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAm2z-0000gca; Tue, 8 Oct 96 16:58 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 00:32:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199610082357.AAA21209@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len, Mike Peck and Albert; Shiny, reflective cames??? YUK!! Imagine "li'lle Ole England" with low-slung cottages, village churches,; Canterbury, St.Paul's, Ely, Liverpool, Coventry & York Cathedral with bright, shiny, reflective cames!!! Come to that, what a nightmare to photograph!! This "trend" has not yet quite reached us Across the Pond, although I have seen the first "murmurs" of it. Will make sure I get into heavy boots to "stamp it out". Now and then, strangely enough, my students express a preference for "shiny" reflective lead-came on their work. I get quite horrible and brutal and promptly tell tem that Mother Nature prefers that lead oxidizes and unless they are prepared to scrub, polish, wirewool their lead every 5 minutes (and eventually wear the lead out [at least- that's what I tell them]), they are far better to work WITH Mother Nature and help/control the oxidizing process along.... When the dirty word "brass-cames" is mentioned in class, I remind my students that we are not a bunch of double-glazing merchants, but Artists & Craftsmen of lead (and copperfoil) and glass..... That soon shuts them up........... :-) In any case, I don't use chemical "patinas" to clean/polish my lead, but use an old fashioned black stove polishing cream; used for old cast iron wood-stoves. It gives the lead that georgeous old mellow "sheen", that I have never found that modern liquid patinas can achieve. I am sure you have your own equivalents "Over There". (If in doubt, ask Grannie!) I just KNOW what will happen now..... someone will tell me off and point out that Brass Came has "its role and place"... I agree that it does, but I'd sooner avoid it, if I possibly can. >From this corner you will not find any "shine" or mirror reflections; only a "mellow glow". (Like me, really...? ;-) ) Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 16:59:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAm2z-0000kYa; Tue, 8 Oct 96 16:58 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Back to SG? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 00:32:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199610082357.AAA21206@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Back to SG? Date: 08 Oct 96 18:13:16 EDT Reply-to: glass@bungi.com >Mom always said: don't beat a dead horse, our time is too precious. Yes. Personally, I always liked "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig." O'course, I'm talking about one made of glass. Albert ..... A stained glass pig, Albert??!! Of course, that's what you mean !! >From Across the Pond, comes another expression.... and Pigs may fly.... ;-)) Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 17:11:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAmEr-0001Hoa; Tue, 8 Oct 96 17:11 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where's SpectrumGlas Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 20:06:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct8.16624.0> References: <<9610082311.AA02090@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk pj friend wrote: > > Mike wrote: > > > >are you using any type of plugin that interfere's with the graphics? > >that's usally the first thing i check into. try also to erase the cache > >in netscape, maybe there's some bad graphic in there. > > > >---Mike Savad > > > Mike, > > I clear my caches always...thats not the problem. > > I have no poblems at any other site but this one. And I view some pretty > heavy sites!! Got a few thing I need to check out. Thanks all for your > suggestions. > > my best, > pj> > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass does it crash at a particular point on the page, at a certain graphic, it could be a pluggin conflict, maybe it can't read a particular code in one of the gifs. how big is your netscape's cache? i set mine to 12 megs, it helps a bit. i also set the memory cache to 600k. try the memory size adjustments, and if those don't work, i'll try to dig through my brain and figure something out. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 17:57:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAmxn-0000aFa; Tue, 8 Oct 96 17:57 PDT X-Path: vladmire.voiceisp.net!mhooper From: mhooper@vladmire.voiceisp.net (Mark Hooper) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came and Brass Markers? Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 20:54:33 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 5:20 PM 10/8/96, M. Savad wrote: >Jerri M Roey wrote: >> >> Thanks Mike and Mike for the help. Where do you find the brass markers? >> I've heard of them, but never seen one. Maybe I've overlooked them in my >> catalogs. >> >> Jerri > > >welp, i've gotten mine at pearl paint and at a local craft store, >however you can probably find it in a good stationary and office supply >store. they run about 2-3 bucks. > >---Mike Savad If wou have a wholesale account Brass "Unipaint Markers" can be had from The Glass Emporium North Wales, PA...can't recall the number just now, if interested let me know, I'll look it up. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 21:40:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAqRL-0000hia; Tue, 8 Oct 96 21:40 PDT X-Path: fbo.com!dloda From: Dave Loda To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: scratched glass Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 21:47:26 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct8.144726.0> References: <<96Oct2.163019-0700pdt.270196-29807+35@aphex.direct.ca>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk daver!direct.ca!tonsper wrote: > > > I had a problem recently grinding GNA. The backs of > >the pieces got really scratched. > >- Marilyn Kaminski > >A New Light > I had this problem awhile ago. With each pass of a piece > of glass grit does build up. Now I am in the habit of holding > my glass up off the surface of the grinder. This has solved > the scratching problem, as well as adjusting the grinding > head up and down. Debbie, I hope you take precautions when you are grinding like this. Glass dust is not something you want to get into your lungs. I have met a lady who did dry grinding and was in the hospital for over 6 months. Dave ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 8 22:53:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAraD-0000Eaa; Tue, 8 Oct 96 22:53 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!104344.622 From: "Christie A. Wood" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM> To: "bungi.com" Subject: Glass Emporium in North Wales, PA Date: 09 Oct 96 01:45:36 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct9.54536.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mark Hooper wrote: The Glass Emporium 322 S. Pennsylvania North Wales, PA 19454 215-699-7007 ***Caution*** This place has very strict rules about who it deals with, since it is a wholesale only supplier. I know...I live in North Wales, PA and Glass Emporium is only 9 blocks from my house/studio, and I can't get on their list since I don't own a store front even though I meet all the other wholesale purchase criteria. ...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 02:42:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAv9M-0000lOa; Wed, 9 Oct 96 02:42 PDT X-Path: source.com.au!aking From: Andrea King To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: For Andrea Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 18:50:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct9.115013.0> References: <<199610071647.JAA16338@peseta.ucdavis.edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Kathe R. McDonald wrote: > > Andrea, don't forget to pack for "winter" when you come over. Your summer > is our winter. Thanks Kathy, I'm terrified as I don't know just how cold it will be and brrrrrrrrrr I hate the cold. My biggest worry is when I visit Stephanie in Lansing. Then I'm heading for Charlotte in North Carolina and I don't think it will be as cold there (at least I'm praying). Andrea ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 02:42:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAv9l-0000dXa; Wed, 9 Oct 96 02:42 PDT X-Path: source.com.au!aking From: Andrea King To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 19:38:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct9.12389.0> References: <<199610082357.AAA21209@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > In any case, I don't use chemical "patinas" to clean/polish my lead, > but use an old fashioned black stove polishing cream; used for old cast > iron wood-stoves. It gives the lead that georgeous old mellow > "sheen" I also use stove polish on lead came and it give a lovely mellow sheen. About brass came, I have not used it as yet and am surprised to hear it is used in a double glazed process. I would have thought it would have been used on its own for its strength therefore eliminating double glazing. I personally don't think it compares to the look of lead came but as Elizabeth said, it probably has its place. Anyway I'll not rush to experiment with it, particularly if its a b@#$!%! to work with. Andrea Melb, Aust ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 05:44:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAxyw-0000vqa; Wed, 9 Oct 96 05:43 PDT X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!wrightk5 From: "Kristen Marie Wright" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 08:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610091243.IAA41525@pilot02.cl.msu.edu> References: <<1996Oct8.31829.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > What solder did you use with the brass came? Will the solder points Don't forget that brass is a hard metal. A way to get around this hardness is to buy capped lead. It has a greater flexability and looks just like brass or whatever metal is capped over the lead. depending on that ammount of cash you want to spend on gadgets, this can be the cheapest way around the hard metals kristen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 07:44:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAzrG-0000bwa; Wed, 9 Oct 96 07:43 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Brass Came Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:48:17 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct9.34817.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk > April asked, > > Which saw do you like? What is the best came bender anyone knows of? > What solder did you use with the brass came? Will the solder points > tarnish like brass if outside (that would be desirable)? I think you guys misunderstood what I was asking. I make a line of garden art (windmills, waterfalls, birdhouses, etc..) and this old green tarnished look is what you want but you also want the solder points to match so what is used. April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 07:47:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAzu1-00012pa; Wed, 9 Oct 96 07:46 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com, Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 09:42:41 -0500 Message-ID: <199610091442.JAA29247@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >Of course, it's a matter of taste and mine just doesn't happen to run toward >shininess. Others' do, obviously, and that's fine. I really don't visit too many glass shops/studios/retailers but the people that I do know are not making any attempt to encourage the use of brass came, for several valid reasons, and I've yet to see one as a display panel in a storefront studio. Most of that brass stuff is installed in entries... pro... alot more folks are exposed to SG...con...they are conditioned to think that the brass look is in so they ask for it Why have commercial outfits decided on brass as the standard?; That's what everybody's doing?....... It makes for a very stiff panel that requires no bracing or cement (true, from personal experience)......... It's a conspiracy... flood the market with a product that's in most cases impractical to reproduce at your friendly local SG shop....... It nicely matches the doorknob and porch ceiling fixture........ Whatever, it's out there hopefully it will run it's course. There have been several good points brought up on how to deal with folks who ask about it and I'll add all of them to my arsenal in the war on brass :-) All of the above is IMHO Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 07:49:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vAzwS-00013ma; Wed, 9 Oct 96 07:49 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Subject: black stove polish was Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 09:45:14 -0500 Message-ID: <199610091445.JAA29288@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >In any case, I don't use chemical "patinas" to clean/polish my lead, >but use an old fashioned black stove polishing cream; used for old cast >iron wood-stoves. It gives the lead that georgeous old mellow >"sheen", that I have never found that modern liquid patinas can >achieve. I am sure you have your own equivalents "Over There". Hi Elisabeth, Since you finish off with stove polish can I assume that your cement is either the white stuff or it does not have any blackening or polishing properties in the formula or is it just another step in the finishing process? Just curious. I'm going to look around for black stove polishing cream. It's that time of year to fire up the ol' wood stove ( Jotul 602 ) and it can use some spiffing up. I'll try it on the lead came too. I agree with you on the chem patina on lead thing too. Although I do occasionaly use black patina on solder joints that get shiney from the way the panel is handled, being slid on a table before or after flipping usually. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 08:09:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB0Fz-0000x6a; Wed, 9 Oct 96 08:09 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 11:03:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct9.736.0> References: <<199610091442.JAA29247@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk len alcamo wrote: > > > > > >Of course, it's a matter of taste and mine just doesn't happen to run toward > >shininess. Others' do, obviously, and that's fine. > > I really don't visit too many glass shops/studios/retailers but the people > that I do know are not making any attempt to encourage the use of brass > came, for several valid reasons, and I've yet to see one as a display panel > in a storefront studio. > > Most of that brass stuff is installed in entries... pro... alot more folks > are exposed to SG...con...they are conditioned to think that the brass look > is in so they ask for it > > Why have commercial outfits decided on brass as the standard?; > > That's what everybody's doing?....... > > It makes for a very stiff panel that requires no bracing or cement (true, > from personal experience)......... > > It's a conspiracy... flood the market with a product that's in most cases > impractical to reproduce at your friendly local SG shop....... > > It nicely matches the doorknob and porch ceiling fixture........ > > Whatever, it's out there hopefully it will run it's course. There have been > several good points brought up on how to deal with folks who ask about it > and I'll add all of them to my arsenal in the war on brass :-) > > All of the above is IMHO > > Len > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i think the brass look is in because people like bright shiny things. it gives a house more class. which would you rather see: scenerio a mansion typr house, double door entry: bevels with dull lead came, or bevels with shiny brass. i would probably chose brass (as the owner). lead just kind of depicts old, old churches, etc. and of course the lead threat to people (the consumer might be afraid because there is another source of lead in the house) where as we the glass person knows the exposure is fairly minimal, unless you lick the panel. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 09:35:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB1ad-0001BAa; Wed, 9 Oct 96 09:34 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:17:42 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct9.131742.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >About brass came, I have not used it as yet and am surprised to hear it >is used in a double glazed process. I would have thought it would have >been used on its own for its strength therefore eliminating double >glazing. I personally don't think it compares to the look of lead came >but as Elizabeth said, it probably has its place. Anyway I'll not rush >to experiment with it, particularly if its a b@#$!%! to work with. > >Andrea >Melb, Aust > Andrea, just a point to clarify. as part of our local building codes (midwest usa), builders are REQUIRED to place any kind of multi-paned window that will exist within an exterior door, sandwiched in a triple glazed unit using tempered glass. there are a lot of older homes, (ie, 20 plus years) that went up before this code came into effect, but the new code has presented quite a boon to us. people still love that leaded and beveled glass look in their entryways and are willing to pay the extra price for the triple glazed inserts. the brass and beveled glass look is also popular, but not as much as lead. personnaly, i agree with the lady from the UK on brass, YUK, but if the customer really wants it, i'll brass it out rather than send them down the road! also a point of interest, another area where people want natural light with privacy are the bathrooms. local building codes require triple glazed units here also for any installation within 60 inches of a drain (greatest risk for slippery floors). mike peck midwest, usa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 10:39:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB2bJ-0001HQa; Wed, 9 Oct 96 10:39 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:35:34 -0500 Message-ID: <199610091735.MAA02752@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >i think the brass look is in because people like bright shiny things. it >gives a house more class. which would you rather see: scenerio a mansion >typr house, double door entry: bevels with dull lead came, or bevels >with shiny brass. i would probably chose brass (as the owner). lead >just kind of depicts old, old churches, etc. and of course the lead >threat to people (the consumer might be afraid because there is another >source of lead in the house) where as we the glass person knows the >exposure is fairly minimal, unless you lick the panel. > >---Mike Savad Your probably right Mike, I'm reading too much into this thing. This stuff is popular because people like the way it looks. These same folks might never have considered commissioning a window from a glass studio but are willing to pick out a design (like picking out wallpaper or carpeting) no fuss, no muss, boom!, there it is, new door and glass the whole enchalada. They were able to successfully mainstream SG in spite of all our efforts to do the same. Great bit of marketing. But if look back into the history of SG in this country there was an movement by an outfit called the National Ornamental Glass Manufacturers Association that attempted to standardize designs and mass market mediocre SG. It proved to be a dismal failure in the long haul and almost buried residential SG. I worry what effect this stuff will have on the smaller operators who depend on window commissions for their income. You can call me old fashioned but I always thought that the lead was there to hold together the glass, apparently the case now is that the glass is there to hold together the brass. ;-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 10:42:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB2eD-0001Hra; Wed, 9 Oct 96 10:42 PDT X-Path: juno.com!roadrunner47 From: roadrunner47@juno.com (Jacque E Smith) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 13:41:54 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct9.174154.0> References: <<199610082357.AAA21209@linux.nildram.co.uk>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk How do you apply and remove excess stove black.. I think that is a terrific idea and would like to try it..Does it have anything that will weaken the foil or the adhesive in stove black. Thanks for the idea ..Roadrunner ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 14:32:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB6Dz-000143a; Wed, 9 Oct 96 14:31 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 17:26:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct9.132647.0> References: <<1996Oct9.34817.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April Paine wrote: > > > April asked, > > > > Which saw do you like? What is the best came bender anyone knows of? > > What solder did you use with the brass came? Will the solder points > > tarnish like brass if outside (that would be desirable)? > > I think you guys misunderstood what I was asking. I make a line of > garden art (windmills, waterfalls, birdhouses, etc..) and this old green > tarnished look is what you want but you also want the solder points to > match so what is used. April > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass so basically your asking what you use to make the solder look green, without electroplating it, i'd suggest you try verre de gree (spelling?) paint. either the type that you use copper paint then green patina, or just go for green paint to match. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 14:36:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB6I2-0001Kaa; Wed, 9 Oct 96 14:35 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 17:30:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct9.133057.0> References: <<199610091735.MAA02752@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk len alcamo wrote: > > >i think the brass look is in because people like bright shiny things. it > >gives a house more class. which would you rather see: scenerio a mansion > >typr house, double door entry: bevels with dull lead came, or bevels > >with shiny brass. i would probably chose brass (as the owner). lead > >just kind of depicts old, old churches, etc. and of course the lead > >threat to people (the consumer might be afraid because there is another > >source of lead in the house) where as we the glass person knows the > >exposure is fairly minimal, unless you lick the panel. > > > >---Mike Savad > > Your probably right Mike, I'm reading too much into this thing. This stuff > is popular because people like the way it looks. These same folks might > never have considered commissioning a window from a glass studio but are > willing to pick out a design (like picking out wallpaper or carpeting) no > fuss, no muss, boom!, there it is, new door and glass the whole enchalada. > They were able to successfully mainstream SG in spite of all our efforts to > do the same. Great bit of marketing. But if look back into the history of SG > in this country there was an movement by an outfit called the National > Ornamental Glass Manufacturers Association that attempted to standardize > designs and mass market mediocre SG. It proved to be a dismal failure in the > long haul and almost buried residential SG. I worry what effect this stuff > will have on the smaller operators who depend on window commissions for > their income. > > You can call me old fashioned but I always thought that the lead was there > to hold together the glass, apparently the case now is that the glass is > there to hold together the brass. ;-) > > Len > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah pretty much, the 'coomon' people who don't do stained glass, generally don't know what goes into stained glass, and as long as it goes well inside the house, then that's ok by them. what people could do, to get out of working with brass, is to have a different price range for solid brass, brass capped, zinc, lead, etc. giving you a little more money in the pocket, and they feel (maybe) it's a little better, because it's (solid brass), kind of a show off point. even though the strenth is around the same if you putty it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 14:47:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB6TR-00015Ka; Wed, 9 Oct 96 14:47 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: 09 Oct 96 17:45:56 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct9.214556.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >These same folks might never have considered commissioning a window from >a glass studio but are willing to pick out a design (like picking out >wallpaper or carpeting) no fuss, no muss, boom!, there it is, new door and >glass the whole enchalada. They were able to successfully mainstream SG in >spite of all our efforts to do the same. Great bit of marketing. Sears Roebuck's catalog was carrying stained glass by the yard a hundred years ago, believe it or don't. It was all the rage. But like all "fads" of taste and decoration, people's interests moved on to other things .. just as they will eventually these days, too. >But if look back into the history of SG in this country there was an >movement by an outfit called the National Ornamental Glass Manufacturers >Association that attempted to standardize designs and mass market >mediocre SG. It proved to be a dismal failure in the long haul and almost >buried residential SG. That's what the Stained Glass Association of America (SGAA) was originally called; it was formed primarily to combat the imported European stained glass by doing everything they could to have tariffs imposed, etc. Albert __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 17:08:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB8f5-0000D8a; Wed, 9 Oct 96 17:07 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!tonsper From: direct.ca!tonsper To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: scratched glass Date: Wed Oct 9 17:07:35 1996 Message-ID: <96Oct9.170637-0700pdt.270132-273+37@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I hope you take precautions when you are grinding like this. Glass dust >is not something you want to get into your lungs. I have met a lady who >did dry grinding and was in the hospital for over 6 months. Dave I guess that I was not specific enough. Although I am holding the glass off the surface of the grinder, the grinding head is constantly being wet by a sponge. I also dip my glass pieces in a bucket of water, a bit of dish soap, and sponges, that I keep to the side of my grinder. I have the greatest of respect for glass dust and do not wish to injure myself in any way. The worst that I do is usually paper like cuts from my copper foil or the odd nick, when I am not paying attention, from a piece of glass. That is when it is time for a cup of tea. Thanks for the warning though. We sometimes cannot be too careful. Debbie Alexander ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 17:26:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB8wG-0000sTa; Wed, 9 Oct 96 17:25 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:58:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199610100023.BAA30114@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Roadrunner, How to apply stove black and remove excesses? Over here we buy it in tubes. I apply it mainly on leaded panels, but suppose it should work fine on copperfoil also. Gentle squeeze and dab in small quantities only (and I mean small!) onto the solder joints of a leaded panel. Then I just simply brush it in with a large soft shoebrush and kepp on polishing - in a way just like shoes.... The favorite brush I have , is quite large and looks rather like an old fashined horse brush, with a bowed piece of wood added to the back of the brush for extra grip when holding. It not only polishes the lead, but also cleans the glass a real treat. As regards damaging the copperfoil, I would think that it does less damage than a chemical patina. Assuming however, that you have got a nice rounded solder "beading" on to your copper work, then the copper and solder will have bonded into one. The adhesive on the copperfoil is at that time on the whole redundant, as the solder should do the job. With a soft brush, you are doing no more (really) than what you would do in a general domestic situation, i.e. cleaning & polishing the objects around you. If my copperfoil work cannot stand up to general domestic dusting & cleaning, then I haven't done them right. Hope this helpful... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 17:26:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB8wI-0001Lza; Wed, 9 Oct 96 17:25 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:58:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199610100023.BAA30120@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike to Len : Agree with you Mike! To "Joe Public" Brass Equals Class, he thinks, without the faintest idea of what traditional stained glass is all about. Making solder "green" to match brass (...when green), your e-mail addressed to April: "verre de gree" (spelling?) - try: verre de gris Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 17:26:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB8wG-0001Awa; Wed, 9 Oct 96 17:25 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:58:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199610100023.BAA30117@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Len, "Now the glass is there to hold together the brass..." Nicely put and interesting comment altogether. And I agree wholeheartedly. But then, perhaps I am old-fashioned too. (So much for the image of a radical Swede... sigh... !) Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 17:26:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB8wG-00017da; Wed, 9 Oct 96 17:25 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: .....OLD...??? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:58:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199610100023.BAA30108@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Mike Peck, Interesting how cultural differences with us folks who speak the same language creep up again and again. (Quite fun too!) ...Older house (i.e. those bult 20 years or so), you said. That is OLD?? In UK this would be a modern house (i.e. new) What in YOUR eyes would my little 250 year old cottage be?? And if you are taller than about 5'9", you'll have to duck, to avoid banging your head... TRIPLE glazing! WOW!! ( Here it's REALLY modern to have DOUBLE-glazing....) I haven't even got THAT! :-( Mind you, I get up some mornings and feel 250 years old too... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 17:26:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB8wI-000185a; Wed, 9 Oct 96 17:25 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:58:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199610100023.BAA30124@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Albert, You said, That's what the Stained Glass Association of America (SGAA) was originally called; it was formed primarily to combat the imported European stained glass by doing everything they could to have tariffs imposed, etc. Wonderful!! We Europeans get it in the neck again :-( Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 17:26:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB8wG-0000yva; Wed, 9 Oct 96 17:25 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: black stove polish was Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:58:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199610100023.BAA30111@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Len, "Do I use white cement or one that does don have any "polishing agent" in it?" Neither is the best answer, The cement I use is itself black, not at all like any other "putty" I have seen and certainly does not resemble "glaziers' putty in the remotest. Nor does it polish - if anything, it does everything BUT polish. It's horrible, grungy, "gooey" and floats about in linseedoil that you have to mix back in again. You try and cement your panels using gloves, the gloves (whatever material you use) end up being shredded, so I have given up using gloves Brushes, hm... but unless you spend a good while afterwards cleaning them (which still gets the grunge underneath your fingernails and everywhere else...) they go stiff, clogged up and un-useable.... So you end up using your bare hands in the end. My hands and fingernails are in a dreadful state as a result. For the "dainty ladies" , of which there are always one or two in my classes, I recommend using an old toothbrush (and tell them to clean it carefully after use, ready for the night's oblutions.... :-) ). If ever I get an apprentice (sigh... and pigs may fly...), apart from cleaning the floor, making the tea, cementing would be the most important job for him/her to do (i.e. the one I like doing myself the least). Why not use silicone sealant?, asked one of my students once. Hmm, certainly got me thinking. God, I MUST love stained glass to subject myself to the torture of the cementing process.... The stove polish is the very last, final touch the cherry on the cake, for me. It also highlights very cleary the odd spot of black cement still stuck on the glass that I will then need to "pick" off. Mind you, I DO occasionally use chemical patina. Occasionally I get the odd solder joint that just WILL NOT blend in with the stove polish, It stubbornly refuses to lose its white shine (often for the very reasons you mentioned). I dab it with a little bit of black patina, leave it for a while and then repolish with stove polish. That usually does it. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 17:38:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vB98N-00019da; Wed, 9 Oct 96 17:37 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 20:31:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct9.163157.0> References: <<199610100023.BAA30120@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Mike to Len : Agree with you Mike! To "Joe Public" Brass Equals > Class, he thinks, without the faintest idea of what traditional > stained glass is all about. > > Making solder "green" to match brass (...when green), your e-mail > addressed to April: > "verre de gree" (spelling?) - try: verre de gris > Elisabeth 'n Toby > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i was close...:) but you knew what i was talking about at least. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 9 19:05:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBAUV-000153a; Wed, 9 Oct 96 19:04 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: .....OLD...??? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 02:04:43 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct10.2443.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 12:58 AM 10/10/96 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Mike Peck, >Interesting how cultural differences with us folks who speak the same >language creep up again and again. (Quite fun too!) >...Older house (i.e. those bult 20 years or so), you said. >That is OLD?? In UK this would be a modern house (i.e. new) >What in YOUR eyes would my little 250 year old cottage be?? >And if you are taller than about 5'9", you'll have to duck, to avoid >banging your head... >TRIPLE glazing! WOW!! ( Here it's REALLY modern to have >DOUBLE-glazing....) I haven't even got THAT! :-( >Mind you, I get up some mornings and feel 250 years old too... >Elisabeth 'n Toby > Hi Toby, I put that comment in parens because I knew that people from Europe were looking in on this group. Yes, old in our neck of the woods is 25 years and a house 50 years old is probably ready to be razed to make room for the new shopping center, or whatever. A house 250 years old might be called ....... a teepee! I do enjoy the cultural differences and exchanges! Hope to get to know you better! Mike ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 00:34:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBFcm-0001Jla; Thu, 10 Oct 96 00:33 PDT X-Path: juno.com!roadrunner47 From: roadrunner47@juno.com (Jacque E Smith) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 03:10:14 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct10.71014.0> References: <<199610100023.BAA30114@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks very much for the clear and concise explaination on using the stove black..I will give it a try..especially on my leaded panel. I really don't care for the look of patinas on my foil pieces, but do use it as it makes some of the features of the glass come alive. I am into doing, southwestern pieces and always looking for new ways to finish them..Thanks again. Roadrunner ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 01:11:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBGCq-0001BQa; Thu, 10 Oct 96 01:11 PDT X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz From: llutz To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: .....OLD...??? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:13:41 +1100 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.51341.0> References: <<199610100023.BAA30108@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Hi Mike Peck, > TRIPLE glazing! WOW!! ( Here it's REALLY modern to have > DOUBLE-glazing....) I haven't even got THAT! :-( > Mind you, I get up some mornings and feel 250 years old too... > Elisabeth 'n Toby > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm Out here in sunny Australia- a majority of houses don't even have insulation in the house walls- much less double glazing. Our winter days are usually about 20 degrees C (about 65-75 degrees F) and we would only get 10 or 12 decent frosts over winter- and never snow where I live. We have a single wood heater for the entire house and it does a good job too. The brass came is popular for front doors here- but it is only a single thickness panel. Larry from Minore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 03:20:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBIDb-0000ZJa; Thu, 10 Oct 96 03:19 PDT X-Path: source.com.au!aking From: Andrea King To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: .....OLD...??? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 20:09:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct10.13931.0> References: <<1996Oct11.51341.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk llutz wrote: > > Out here in sunny Australia- Our winter days > are usually about 20 degrees C (about 65-75 degrees F) Hi Larry, Try moving down to Melbourne for winter, try 12-13 degrees C, I think I'll move up your way next winter!! Andrea Melb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 03:20:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBIDY-0000Zra; Thu, 10 Oct 96 03:19 PDT X-Path: source.com.au!aking From: Andrea King To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 19:43:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct10.12430.0> References: <<1996Oct9.131742.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mike peck wrote: >just a point to clarify. as part of our local building codes >(midwest usa), builders are REQUIRED to place any kind of multi-paned >window that will exist within an exterior door, sandwiched in a triple >glazed unit using tempered glass. Mike thanks for the clarification. It is interesting and I can understand the safety aspects. By triple glazing doors, does this stop the possibility of damage to the leadlight (I do realise people's safety come first, but I hate to see a beautiful panel damaged). Doors take a bit of a pounding and sometimes result in a crack in the leadlight panel here or there. I also can understand, what the custsomer wants.... The reason I was going to put it into my door was for strength and secutiry, but I love the look of lead and the way it weathers over time. I'll just design a panel that will lend itself to lots of reinforcement. I might even think of double glazing. Andrea ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 06:21:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBL31-0000iAa; Thu, 10 Oct 96 06:21 PDT X-Path: Loundy.com!David From: "David J. Loundy" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: .....OLD...??? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:19:34 -0500 Message-ID: References: <<199610100023.BAA30108@linux.nildram.co.uk>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 6:13 PM +1100 10/10/96, Larry from Minore wrote: >Out here in sunny Australia- a majority of houses don't even have >insulation in the house walls- much less double glazing. Our winter days >are usually about 20 degrees C (about 65-75 degrees F) and we would only >get 10 or 12 decent frosts over winter- and never snow where I live. We >have a single wood heater for the entire house and it does a good job >too. The brass came is popular for front doors here- but it is only a >single thickness panel. >Larry from Minore I recently had to repair a piece that was put directly into a window without panes on either side (against my recommendation). It cracked from the cold. Gotta love those 80 below zero (F) wind-chills here in the midwest... (This was in Iowa.) --David-- _______________________________________________________________________ David J. Loundy | E-Mail: David@Loundy.com | WWW: http://www.Loundy.com/ "Don't forget:Apple and Honda| Phone: (847) 926-9744 have the same size market | Listserv (for my Technology Law column): share in their respective | Send a message reading "subscribe" businesses" --G. Kawasaki | to Loundy-request@netural.com _______________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 06:31:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBLD4-0000p2a; Thu, 10 Oct 96 06:31 PDT X-Path: indy.net!jlaws From: "James R. Laws" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mail Problems Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:31:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct10.33133.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I know this was already discussed, but I am using Navigator Gold Beta and some of the correspondence from this group has caused my mail to freeze. I have reported the problem to Netscape. Unfortunately, I had to totally reload my program to be able to read my mail and I lost all of the discussion on the problem without being able to read it. Was there any conclusion? Thanks! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 07:23:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBM0E-0000tma; Thu, 10 Oct 96 07:22 PDT X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen From: David Cogen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: How to repair foiled stained glass? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 10:15:10 -0400 Message-ID: <9610101015.AA00983@LL.MIT.EDU> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone. I am new to the list, and an amateur stained glass maker. I have made several pieces, but have never had to repair one yet. I am wondering: If I have a piece made from foiled glass, how to I remove a broken pane? It would seem that I would have to simultaneously melt all the solder surrounding the pane, so that I can remove the broken pane while the solder is melted. Obviously a soldering iron will not do that; it only melts near where the iron is at that instant. How is this done? -- David. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 07:42:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBMJn-0000isa; Thu, 10 Oct 96 07:42 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Mail Problems Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:37:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct10.63750.0> References: <<1996Oct10.33133.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk James R. Laws wrote: > > I know this was already discussed, but I am using Navigator Gold Beta > and some of the correspondence from this group has caused my mail to > freeze. I have reported the problem to Netscape. Unfortunately, I had > to totally reload my program to be able to read my mail and I lost all > of the discussion on the problem without being able to read it. Was > there any conclusion? Thanks! > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass welp, number one download the final version of gold. the problem was the date on gregs side, it was 2096, it turns out there's a bug in netscape that won't allow the date to be above 2038, so it crashes. the only way to fix it it to either edit the inbox, or erase it all together. but greg fixed the date, and every thing is working fine now. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 07:54:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBMUc-0000rsa; Thu, 10 Oct 96 07:53 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: How to repair foiled stained glass? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:49:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct10.6493.0> References: <<9610101015.AA00983@LL.MIT.EDU>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk David Cogen wrote: > > Hi everyone. I am new to the list, and an amateur stained glass maker. > > I have made several pieces, but have never had to repair one yet. I am > wondering: If I have a piece made from foiled glass, how to I remove a broken > pane? It would seem that I would have to simultaneously melt all the solder > surrounding the pane, so that I can remove the broken pane while the solder is > melted. Obviously a soldering iron will not do that; it only melts near where > the iron is at that instant. How is this done? > > -- David. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ok it's a little difficult to describe by typing, but i'll try. 1. clean the project off, just to get any gunk off. 2. score the broken piece like crazy, criss cross in a grid across the piece. 3. tap on the back of the piece, with the ball, to crack out the lines. 4. carefully poke out the pieces with a needlenose pliers, be carefull though you might bend the project. 5. try to remove as much of the glass as you can, though don't force any of it out. 6. heat up your iron. 7. apply alot of flux to both sides of the project, where the outline of the piece was. 8. melt the joint out with the iron, using the iron like a putty knife, 'walk' the iron under the foil so it lifts away. becarefull in this step, because you could cause the surrounding pieces to crack, the opposite foil to lift out or rip. 9. continue doing this until all the old foil and glass is removed. it might be difficult and smelly at first if the piece was patinaed. 10. reflux the opening, and melt out any execess solder, just be sure the opening is smooth. 11. clean the project off, remove flux, dry, etc. then sweep off your bench, you don't have to turn off your iron, unless the piece is going to take a while to cut. 12. put your new glass under the project, trace the opening onto the glass (so you have a tight fit later). 13. cut, grind (and be sure that it's going to fit), and foil the piece. 14. stick it in the opening, and solder as usual, the only tricky part is that the piece will be lower, depending on the height of the solder on the back of the project. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 09:09:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBNeq-00011Ma; Thu, 10 Oct 96 09:08 PDT X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 09:08:10 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1996Oct10.71014.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk Does anyone have a contact place, or type of place to look, to purchase stove black in the US? There aren't that many old stoves around anymore, especially in Phoenix, that this is a common grocery store item. adthanksvance --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 10:32:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBOyC-0001MDa; Thu, 10 Oct 96 10:32 PDT X-Path: aol.com!RTMEMT From: RTMEMT@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: How to repair foiled stained glass? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:32:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct10.93219.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike, Nice explanation. Since there are infinite ways to skin a cat, I'd like to offer an option to one of your steps: >8. melt the joint out with the iron, using the iron like a putty knife, >'walk' the iron under the foil so it lifts away. becarefull in this >step, because you could cause the surrounding pieces to crack, the >opposite foil to lift out or rip. I do this a little differently, for the following reasons. One, too much risk of damage to glass, soldering tip (if too aggressive) and individual (more exposure to fumes than necessary. Having manufactured radioactive drugs for 20 years incredibly safely, my best advice is to limit your exposure to the nasties whenever you can. Working with radioactivity is one of the best ways to understand how seemingly insignificant techniques can easily cause contamination; because it is so easy to detect.) Two, soldering out the lead takes too long and is very awkward. Since labor is the highest cost component of SG, I try to reduce labor costs as much as possible allowing my pricing to be more competitive. So, I perform radical surgery. After popping out offending piece as Mike described, I use my grozing pliers and lead knife (or triangular file) to remove solder and foil from edge of adjacent "good" glass. ( If the spirit moves me, I'll leave about 1/4 inch at joints for an overlap with new foil...tho this isn't entirely necessary. If you do it's best then to remove as much solder with your iron as you can to get a better foil to foil contact...tho this presents the same issues as noted above, but to a lesser extent.) I refoil these edges, getting as close to existing solder as possible. Then proceed as Mike described. >14. stick it in the opening, and solder as usual, the only tricky part >is that the piece will be lower, depending on the height of the solder >on the back of the project. You can raise this piece by placing something handy underneath it, like washers, popsicle sticks, cardboard, nails; be creative. Just another way to skin the cat. Do what you're comfortable with. Rita ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 11:43:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBQ53-00019Za; Thu, 10 Oct 96 11:43 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:37:27 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct10.183727.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 04:08 PM 10/10/96 +0000, you wrote: >Does anyone have a contact place, or type of place to look, to purchase >stove black in the US? There aren't that many old stoves around anymore, >especially in Phoenix, that this is a common grocery store item. > >adthanksvance >--- >Charles Spitzer there's a small shop down the street from us that says they have it: Hearth and Home Specialties 555 NW Blue Pkwy Lee's Summit, Mo 64063 (816)524-7492 mike peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 14:20:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBSWT-0000z9a; Thu, 10 Oct 96 14:20 PDT X-Path: Loundy.com!David From: "David J. Loundy" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: How to repair foiled stained glass? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:13:38 -0500 Message-ID: References: <<9610101015.AA00983@LL.MIT.EDU>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 10:49 AM -0400 10/10/96, Mike Savad wrote: >13. cut, grind (and be sure that it's going to fit), and foil the piece. > >14. stick it in the opening, and solder as usual, the only tricky part >is that the piece will be lower, depending on the height of the solder >on the back of the project. > I find that by holding the piece in place with something like packing tape you can adjust the height of the piece you are inserting and thus solder it in level. It also helps contain any solder that runs through. --David-- ____________________________________________________________________ David J. Loundy | E-Mail: David@Loundy.com | WWW: http://www.Loundy.com/ "I love deadlines. I like | Phone: (847) 926-9744 the whooshing sound they | Listserv (for my Technology Law column): make as they fly by." | Send a message reading "subscribe" --Douglas Adams | to Loundy-request@netural.com ____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 17:13:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBVDo-0000xia; Thu, 10 Oct 96 17:13 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:12:52 -0700 Message-ID: <199610110012.RAA20412@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike wrote: > > > >personnaly i don't care either way if you read it or not, that's up to > Albert wrote > >I guess there's not much one can say to you, Mike, given that kind of an >attitude on your part. > >Albert > >---- I agree with Albert and Rita. A little pruneing of the previous messages is not to much to ask. I also tend to delete most of your and some others responses for lack of time. Please try to help all of use our time eficiently, as you often have interesting things to say, things that may be lost to those of us to busy to hassle with lazy responses. ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 17:40:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBVdz-0000ypa; Thu, 10 Oct 96 17:40 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:39:54 -0700 Message-ID: <199610110039.RAA28449@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > > >I can hardly think of one good reason why one would want the matrix of a > >SG panel to be highly reflective > >Len, I bite my lip *all the time to keep from saying anything about all of the >interest in bright, shiny cames. Yours is the first comment I've seen (or that >I can remember, senility to one side) that actually comes down on the side of >patinated leads. Good for you. > > The other part of Len's reply is also of interest. That is brass as the other "hard" cames are are REAL pain to work in. They also do not hold up the way lead does. I have seen copper, brass and zinc panels that are 30 to 40 years old and well beyond repair. On the other hand I've seen leaded panels from the 12th century where the came is still viable. In truth in a proper installation all the cames become black lines anyway. ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 18:49:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBWii-0000fsa; Thu, 10 Oct 96 18:49 PDT X-Path: nz1.netzone.com!lorley From: "Lorley L. Oneyear" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: fishin line Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:51:23 -0600 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961011005123.006775b4@mail.netzone.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just finished two small suncatchers.. approx 6" sq and 10" sq .. wondering what size/kind of fishing line I'll need to buy to hang em.. (didn't know there were so many sizes to choose from!!!) Thanks. Lorley in Arizona ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 10 21:26:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBZB8-0001Dga; Thu, 10 Oct 96 21:26 PDT X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Warner Crivellaro Problems? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 23:27:34 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct11.32734.0> References: <<1996Oct10.183727.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Everybody Thanks for all the responses to my little brass came question. I've enjoyed all the reading. Next question: Has anyone had problems with returning items or broken glass to Warner Crivellaro? I recently placed my first order with this company. One of the things I ordered was the patchwork pattern bevels with the brass came frames (that's where my question came from). Having no experience with bevels or brass came, it seemed like a way to be introduced to both. It turned out that the patten was bigger than the frame, and after I cut it down, I noticed the patterns were very poorly drawn. They are simple patterns that should have been easily done with a ruler and protractor, but lines on the simple geometric shapes that should have been parallel weren't and the pattern should have been mirror image when folded in half, but pieces that should have been the same size, weren't. I faxed WC a message over a week ago and asked them to send me a new pattern if this problem had been corrected, but I have not heard from them. Also, I placed my order over five weeks ago and received no information about an item that was backordered until my husband called to check on it the other day. ("Uhhhhh, maybe in a couple of weeks.") I guess I'm used to companies that either give a backorder date, or say it will be out within 30 days and then notify me if it's not. All this after waiting 5 months for a catalog. So far I'm not real impressed with the company, but they have a great catalog with items I've never seen anywhere else. I live in a rural area and the nearest glass shop is over an hour away, so I do everything via mail, BUT I'm very excited to say a brave couple is opening a store about 10 miles from where I live. As I don't even know another person (other than you all) that does glass, I'm thrilled. I just wondered about anyone else's experience with Warner Crivellaro. I was wondering about returning broken glass. Their catalog says to notify the shipper re: damages, but my local UPSer tells me that UPS will tell me to notify the company. WC says they don't send replacements until the receive the damaged items. UPS also said they may not want to return broken glass. (I know how UPS treats things: I clerked for them in college, many years ago. I also married one of them.) I guess I'm used to Delphi, where when I've had breakage, I just call them up and they send a replacement right away. I was getting ready to place a large (for me, anyway) glass order. While WC's prices are considerably better, I'm not sure I want to order through them. Thanks for any comments. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 03:37:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBey6-0000kwa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 03:37 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Subject: stove black source Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 06:35:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.2355.0> References: <<1996Oct10.183727.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mike peck wrote: > > At 04:08 PM 10/10/96 +0000, you wrote: > >Does anyone have a contact place, or type of place to look, to purchase > >stove black in the US? There aren't that many old stoves around anymore, > there's a small shop down the street from us that says they have it: > > Hearth and Home Specialties > 555 NW Blue Pkwy > Lee's Summit, Mo 64063 > (816)524-7492 > Is this the same thing as lamp black that you can add to putty to make it black? Been looking for that stuff for years! If not, can anyone give me a source? BTW still need a wholesale source for cutter caps. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 03:44:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBf4V-0000Wua; Fri, 11 Oct 96 03:44 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: How to repair foiled stained glass? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 06:41:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.24145.0> References: <<1996Oct10.6493.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > 14. stick it in the opening, and solder as usual, the only tricky part > is that the piece will be lower, depending on the height of the solder > on the back of the project. > > ---Mike Savad > I use popsicle sticks to lay under the new piece of glass to support it to the height of the old glass. (And for anyone who doesn't know....popsicle sticks are about 1/16 of an inch thick wooden sticks about 4" long.) If that's not exactly the right thickness, I use layers of light cardboard cut to fit smaller than the repair piece and use as many as necessary to make it the desired thickness. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 03:51:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBfBq-0000K2a; Fri, 11 Oct 96 03:51 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: fishin line Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 06:49:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.24920.0> References: <<2.2.32.19961011005123.006775b4@mail.netzone.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lorley L. Oneyear wrote: > > Just finished two small suncatchers.. approx 6" sq and 10" sq .. wondering what size/kind of fishing line I'll need to buy to hang em.. >(didn't know there were so many sizes to choose from!!!) Thanks. > Lorley in Arizona I personally like fishing line, but just a note, my customers won't buy anything with fishing line, they want chain! I only use the jewelry chain for box lids, and use the med jack chain for all suncatchers, for anything heavier, I put a wood frame around and use heavy duty chain. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 05:06:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBgMM-0000UNa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 05:06 PDT X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: How to repair foiled stained glass? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 08:07:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.4740.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike says: 8. melt the joint out with the iron, using the iron like a putty knife, 'walk' the iron under the foil so it lifts away. becarefull in this step, because you could cause the surrounding pieces to crack, the opposite foil to lift out or rip. I'm new but a friend of mine cuts aluminum cola cans into strips. She forces the corner of the strip in between the two foiled pieces as she is melting the solder with the iron. this keep it from flowing back together as she slides it along all around the piece. Primative but it seems to work. Linda begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(BX,`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &``@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```#T`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!G;&%S``,P`0```! ```!G;&%S[`1X`< `!````* ```%)%.B!(;W<@ M=&\@`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X` M'PP!````$@```&QC8F5L;$!M96UA8V@N8V]M`````P`&$ ]T;K(#``<0M0$` M`!X`"! !````90```$U)2T5305E3.CA-14Q45$A%2D])3E1/5517251(5$A% M25)/3BQ54TE.1U1(14E23TY,24M%05!55%192TY)1D4L5T%,2U1(14E23TY5 M3D1%4E1(149/24Q33TE43$E&5%-!5T$``````@$)$ $```!M`@``:0(``,H# M``!,6D9UX'C%R_\`"@$/`A4"J 7K`H,`4 +R"0(`8V@*P'-E=#(W!@`&PP*# M,@/%`@!P)S=&5M`H,S-P+D!Q,"@S0$1A,S,2!W"%4'L@* ?0J ",\) MV3OQ& \R-34"@ J!#;$+8&!N9S$P,Q10"P-L>&DS-@WP"U4440OR8P,`0 70 M:6ME('-A71.P.@J''$L34&\3T&.C!4 *A3@N( > ; 5 Y'1H'8!J;PN !4 ( M8"\%0 /P(, @LVD#8&XLW"!U`) ;$"'G(!O0'7$(82!P(7!T>2!KD0,`9F4L M"H4G=P= Y&LG(NAU;@2!(+,"$/D#$7-O(B %0!O0`8 $(.IA)3!Y(%!B!9 * MP W _'5L`R +@""Q! `*A1/!7G B<"@R(I =@'D(8""[!: HH&0JT"I3(,)S M"'!7`V F(2*R< B08P>1='@`_ BP6(M82T!9^\1P"#0!< [)7,; MT VP-?'_,V$7H"+!!T #( K +"(@L[LLHR!04 40`, [\'8=@#\S0B=!$; 3 MX"SS.A!R:\LP5C!E3 N 9&$P:QO?%1\O(!;+>[`4 `"# `9*=>;+>[`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B ` %````414` ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 06:00:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBhCO-0000asa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 06:00 PDT X-Path: falcon.cc.ukans.edu!elgarber From: elgarber@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Ellen Garber) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Photographs Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 08:00:14 -0500 Message-ID: <9610111300.AA09801@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I know this was discussed sometime back, but too long ago for me to recall. I need some tips on taking photographs of my work. How do I take a picture of a window without getting a background, or flash glare, with transparent glass? Ellen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 06:58:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBi4Y-0000ZSa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 06:56 PDT X-Path: scv.net!fullspec From: Kay Allen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Pricing a Beveled Window Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 06:54:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961011135456.006a2618@mail.scv.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all, A while back I read alot of good info on how to price our work by the sq.ft, etc. But how does one arrive at a price when rather expensive bevel clusters are included in the design? The panel totals about eleven sq.ft and has approx. 130 pieces with a central cluster and two lesser clusters on each side. TIA Kay ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 07:25:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBiWh-0000lNa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 07:25 PDT X-Path: aol.com!RTMEMT From: RTMEMT@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Photographs Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:24:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.6244.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Ellen, > How do I take a picture of a window without getting a background, or flash glare, with >transparent glass? This is a difficult question to answer simply in this venue. Glass is one of the most difficult items to photo correctly, even for many pros. Explanation also depends on how much you know about photography and light and what equipment you have. If you don't have a lot ofequipment, you can jerry rig a few things which will produce a result without the problems you mentioned above. Some suggestions: 1. To eliminate background: tape transparent mylar (aka polyester drafting film) or tracing paper to back of window. 2. To eliminate glare: glare is caused by angle of light reflecting from glass surface back to lens and also harshness of light. You will need to experiment a lot depending on your equipment. Your window should be both backlit thru mylar and front lit in a way to reduce glare. Without making major investments, use natural light (sunlight) for backlighting. Hopefully you have a non-automatic 35mm camera, so you can manually bracket different exposures. If you don't, this will be an arduous experimentation task. If you have one, a light meter at the glass will help position your light sources and help with bracketing exposure settings. For front lighting, don't use flash attached to camera. If you have detachable flash, try bouncing it off a light colored ceiling or large white cardboard (there will still be some glare with this). Better still, use 2 floodlights (reasonably inexpensive via mailorder photo ) with 3200 degrees K bulbs (approx. natrual light) at 45 degree angles to window on right and left. Also, better to diffuse this lighting in a number of different ways. It can be bounced like the flash. Mylar or white sheets can be placed a non-flammable distance away between light and window. Baffles of white cardboard can be set up to filter and bounce light (this is too complicated to explain here......check some photog books at library). I haven't tried this, but you could try to take window (if not installed) outside on a overcast day (no direct sunlight). Unroll mylar (or white sheet) so it is both behind window and rolls underneath and in foreground of window. This would probably be the least expensive option. I photo my own work because I've had a lot of photo classwork. But I know several glass artists who don't bother and take their work to a pro who is knowledgable in glass photography (not all are, or are willing to do set-up). If you want pro quality photo, you need some special equipment to do that. Hope this helps. If you have more specific questions, I'll try to help further. It would help to know what equipment you have. Rita ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 07:29:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBiaI-0000mJa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 07:29 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:24:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.62423.0> References: <<199610110012.RAA20412@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Michael Smoucha wrote: > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > >personnaly i don't care either way if you read it or not, that's > up to > > > > Albert wrote > > >I guess there's not much one can say to you, Mike, given that kind of > an > >attitude on your part. > > > >Albert > > > >---- > > I agree with Albert and Rita. A little pruneing of the previous > messages is not to much to ask. I also tend to delete most of your and > some others responses for lack of time. Please try to help all of use > our time eficiently, as you often have interesting things to say, > things that may be lost to those of us to busy to hassle with lazy > responses. > > ms > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass you see i see it the other way. #1 are people that lazy they can't move the scroll bar down a noth or two? #2 i find it more convient when the original messages are in there. when someone replies to me with out quoting, i have know idea what there replying about. usally i just ignore the quote, but on occasion i had to refresh myself, and the only way i could do that was to look into my trash folder, if i did'nt erase it already. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 07:34:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBieK-0000aGa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 07:33 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: fishin line Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:27:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.62716.0> References: <<2.2.32.19961011005123.006775b4@mail.netzone.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lorley L. Oneyear wrote: > > Just finished two small suncatchers.. approx 6" sq and 10" sq .. wondering > what size/kind of fishing line I'll need to buy to hang em.. (didn't know > there were so many sizes to choose from!!!) Thanks. > > Lorley in Arizona > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass generally i go with the heaviest that i can tie in a knot. i found 20lb works pretty well, just be sure to give it a good knot, and pull on it while you do it, you would'nt want it to untie on you. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 07:36:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBigi-0000oRa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 07:35 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: How to repair foiled stained glass? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:31:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.6312.0> References: <<1996Oct11.24145.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk glasschic wrote: > > > > > 14. stick it in the opening, and solder as usual, the only tricky part > > is that the piece will be lower, depending on the height of the solder > > on the back of the project. > > > > ---Mike Savad > > > > I use popsicle sticks to lay under the new piece of glass to support it > to the height of the old glass. (And for anyone who doesn't > know....popsicle sticks are about 1/16 of an inch thick wooden sticks > about 4" long.) If that's not exactly the right thickness, I use layers > of light cardboard cut to fit smaller than the repair piece and use as > many as necessary to make it the desired thickness. > > Garden of Glass > Joyce Moran > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass in general i just use tape or my fingers. though i've used popsicle sticks for spacers, on complex lid's and bases, for boxes. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 07:38:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBijH-0000pba; Fri, 11 Oct 96 07:38 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: How to repair foiled stained glass? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:33:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.63340.0> References: <<1996Oct11.4740.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > Mike says: > > 8. melt the joint out with the iron, using the iron like a putty knife, > 'walk' the iron under the foil so it lifts away. becarefull in this > step, because you could cause the surrounding pieces to crack, the > opposite foil to lift out or rip. > > I'm new but a friend of mine cuts aluminum cola cans into strips. She > forces the corner of the strip in between the two foiled pieces as she is > melting the solder with the iron. this keep it from flowing back together > as she slides it along all around the piece. Primative but it seems to > work. > > Linda > > Name: WINMAIL.DAT > Part 1.2 Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream) > Encoding: x-uuencode > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass whatever works, generally i found my iron would melt the can. i will also use a pair of small pliers, to carefully pull at the foil while it's melting. which ever way works, there are lots of ways to do something, but fixing stained glass, is a pain regardless of what method you choose. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 07:42:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBin2-0000qOa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 07:42 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Pricing a Beveled Window Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:37:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.63735.0> References: <<1.5.4.32.19961011135456.006a2618@mail.scv.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Kay Allen wrote: > > Hi all, > > A while back I read alot of good info on how to price our work by the sq.ft, > etc. But how does one arrive at a price when rather expensive bevel > clusters are included in the design? The panel totals about eleven sq.ft > and has approx. 130 pieces with a central cluster and two lesser clusters on > each side. TIA > > Kay > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass what i would first do is to add the price of the clusters in. then i'd choose the other methods discussed. because basically it's the same, just because you did'nt cut out have the panel, does'nt mean it was less work. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 07:42:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBimW-0000Sha; Fri, 11 Oct 96 07:41 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Photographs Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:35:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.63545.0> References: <<9610111300.AA09801@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Ellen Garber wrote: > > I know this was discussed sometime back, but too long ago for me to recall. > I need some tips on taking photographs of my work. How do I take a picture > of a window without getting a background, or flash glare, with transparent > glass? > Ellen > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass although i'm no expert, and i'm courious on the subject too. i heard if you use a etched piece of glass or gluechip for a background it maybe diffused enough. latley i've been bringing my stuff outside, putting it on an off white sheet, and taking them in direct strong sunlight. this method works prettywell for most stuff. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 08:06:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBjAE-0000bwa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 08:06 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Warner Crivellaro Problems? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:06:01 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.1561.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 03:27 AM 10/11/96 +0000, you wrote: > I live in a >rural area and the nearest glass shop is over an hour away, so I do >everything via mail, BUT I'm very excited to say a brave couple is >opening a store about 10 miles from where I live. As I don't even know >another person (other than you all) that does glass, I'm thrilled. > > I just wondered about anyone else's experience with Warner >Crivellaro. I was wondering about returning broken glass. Their catalog >says to notify the shipper re: damages, but my local UPSer tells me that >UPS will tell me to notify the company. WC says they don't send >replacements until the receive the damaged items. UPS also said they may >not want to return broken glass. (I know how UPS treats things: I clerked >for them in college, many years ago. I also married one of them.) I >guess I'm used to Delphi, where when I've had breakage, I just call them >up and they send a replacement right away. I was getting ready to place >a large (for me, anyway) glass order. While WC's prices are considerably >better, I'm not sure I want to order through them. > > sorry to hear of your troubles, but delighted to hear that it was with a cataloge dealer! being in the retail business myself these catalogue businesses tend to be difficult at best to deal with. the couple you refer to that are opening a shop nearby are indeed very brave. do everything you can to support them and you should get some much better deals, not to mention service, in the long run. regarding my experiences, obviously i don't do any business with the catalogues, but i know the reputable wholesalers will take merchandise back. however, there are some "special" arrangements on small shipments of glass where they will send up to four sheets, cut in half (about 24"x24") in a box at your risk. and i ask for such shipments all the time and have never received a single broken sheet. the unfortunate side of the retail story is that we can't get the margins that catalogue houses have because we don't have the volume. so when you're dealing with a retailer, you're going to pay more, but the good retailers are going to make it up in service. blah, blah, blah ........ sorry, i didn't intend to jump on the soapbox that quickly. just delighted to hear of frustrations dealing with catalogue businesses. i'll be sure to keep your comments handy for the next customer that says "How much for that?!!! Man, I know where I can get it for a lot less!", or how bout this one, "Hey, I bought this thing out of a catalogue and they sent me the wrong size, color, whatever. Could I just exchange it with you?" mike peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 08:10:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBjEE-0000oma; Fri, 11 Oct 96 08:10 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Warner Crivellaro Problems? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 11:10:16 -0400 Message-ID: <9610111510.AA13303@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerri wrote: > Has anyone had problems with returning items or broken glass to >Warner Crivellaro? >> All I can say is....How long did it take you to get your cat?????? Most people tell me it takes them months. Why would you order from someone like this????? my best, pj > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 08:15:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBjJ0-0000sJa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 08:15 PDT X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Fishing line for light catchers Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 11:12:12 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct11.151212.0> References: <<1996Oct11.6244.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Lorley, In 8th grade Home Ec. (I only lasted two weeks, but I did learn something.) we made beaded jewelry using fishing line. The teacher showed us, after the project was completed, how to melt the ends of the line with a match to melt the knot into a glob or melt the ends into globs to keep the knot from coming undone. You have to be careful not to go to far, but I've done this for lightcathchers too. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 08:16:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBjJ0-0000s8a; Fri, 11 Oct 96 08:15 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 11:15:05 -0400 Message-ID: <9610111515.AA13507@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike,: >> >> Mike wrote: >> > >> >you see i see it the other way. #1 are people that lazy they can't move >the scroll bar down a noth or two? #2 i find it more convient when the >original messages are in there. when someone replies to me with out >quoting, i have know idea what there replying about. usally i just >ignore the quote, but on occasion i had to refresh myself, and the only >way i could do that was to look into my trash folder, if i did'nt erase >it already.>> I agree with Mike...if there is not some context of what the original message was the thought gets lost. And if people are to lazy or not interested in it...well delete it. Geezzz how much easier could it get????? my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 08:38:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBjfQ-0000tva; Fri, 11 Oct 96 08:38 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glasschic Subject: Re: stove black source Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 08:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Oct11.13157.0> References: <<1996Oct11.2355.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk re: places to get lamp black. If lamp black and stove black is the same, then the lamp black is available at most hardware stores that carry tile grout and/or paint. At least that is where I have found it in CA. PJ. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 09:10:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBk9u-0000wPa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 09:09 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 16:09:44 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.16944.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > By triple glazing doors, does this stop >the possibility of damage to the leadlight (I do realise people's safety >come first, but I hate to see a beautiful panel damaged). Doors take a >bit of a pounding and sometimes result in a crack in the leadlight panel >here or there. the triple glazed units that we have put together have been VERY rugged to abuse so it certainly reduces the amount of repairs we get calls for. but you know, the oldest triple glazed units that are out there are probably only ten years old at best. so, already, we have seen that some seals have failed allowing the argon or nitrogen to escape and the unit fills with condensate every time the humidity goes up, and many of the brassy ones are tarnishing out very badly. so now we sandwich the unit between tempered plate glass, then line the perimeter with a dessicated band to soak up any moisture, then seal it up with butyl rubber. i know the seals that we use today are much more durable than those we used only a few years ago, but sooner or later the butyl rubber will deteriorate and the dessicant will become saturated, then the unit will fill with condensate, etc. most of the residential jobs we get will have some double glazed window in place (two sheets of clear plate sealed with dessicant) and we work with whatever mouldings the trim man left us to mount a leaded window on the interior of the home. we use clips to mount the leaded window so it will be removable for cleaning, etc. from the inside of the home, the leaded window will be in full brilliance, but from the outside of the home, the leaded window seems very subdued. it's a trade off, but if (or when!) the seal fails on the glazed window, the plate glass fogs up and there is no damage to the leaded window, it's much cheaper to repair, etc. >I also can understand, what the customer wants.... The reason I was >going to put it into my door was for strength and secutiry, but I love >the look of lead and the way it weathers over time. I'll just design a >panel that will lend itself to lots of reinforcement. I might even think >of double glazing. > >Andrea in a commercial setting, i would encourage you to look at triple glazing simply for the strength and safety. but, residential is not as prone to abuse, so a pattern affording good reinforcement might be all that is necessary. if you want to look at triple glazing, then i am NOT an advocate of sealing the unit up (per our local codes) rather i think a sandwich between tempered plate with some kind of venting top and bottom might be more durable. even double glazed should be vented. hope this helps, any other comments on this one? Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 12:28:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBnEz-0000qPa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 12:27 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Greek /Crashes(not glass related) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:31:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.83114.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi, Has anyone been crashing today due to bungi mail? I noticed some mail showing up in Greek before you go to"next" why? Is this common? April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 13:10:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBnt9-0000x8a; Fri, 11 Oct 96 13:08 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!phil7 From: Philip McRae To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 14:53:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.75314.0> References: <<199610110012.RAA20412@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Michael Smoucha wrote: > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > >personnaly i don't care either way if you read it or not, that's > up to > > > > Albert wrote > > >I guess there's not much one can say to you, Mike, given that kind of > an > >attitude on your part. > > > >Albert > > > >---- > > I agree with Albert and Rita. A little pruneing of the previous > messages is not to much to ask. I also tend to delete most of your and > some others responses for lack of time. Please try to help all of use > our time eficiently, as you often have interesting things to say, > things that may be lost to those of us to busy to hassle with lazy > responses. > > ms > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Hey Mike; Talk about lazy? Ever hear, or use, the shift key? Lazy Phil. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 13:52:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBoXz-00019aa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 13:51 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: stove black source Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 21:24:14 +0000 Message-ID: <199610112049.VAA28213@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Joyce, .....is stove black same as lamp black....? you ask. To the best of my knowledge, don't think it is.. Stove black is literally an old fashioned polish for old-fashioned cast iron stoves. But the black dye used in it, is so strong and powerful, you could experiment at adding it to your cement mixture. In UK it used to be called "Zebrite", but was renamed to "Zebo" a few years ago. Here it is produced by Reckitt & Colman Products Ltd., Dansom Lane, Hull, UK, They do export, as they have their own export Division Reckitt & Colman (Overseas) Ltd. The product description reads: "Restores the appearance of cast iron. Polishes and protects cast iron, steel, objects such as grates, firebacks, barbecues, stoves boilers and pipes". I haven't used it on boilers & pipes, but it does a very good job on lead... Hope this helpful. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 14:29:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBp8t-0000nHa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 14:29 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Greek /Crashes(not glass related) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 17:24:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.132426.0> References: <<1996Oct11.83114.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April Paine wrote: > > Hi, > > Has anyone been crashing today due to bungi mail? I noticed some mail > showing up in Greek before you go to"next" why? Is this common? > > April > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass welp, the only crashing we had was because of the date thing. never seen any in greek yet, unless it has'nt come yet. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 14:34:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBpDh-0000uza; Fri, 11 Oct 96 14:34 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 17:28:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.132812.0> References: <<1996Oct11.75314.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Philip McRae wrote: > > Michael Smoucha wrote: > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > > >personnaly i don't care either way if you read it or not, that's > > up to > > > > > > > Albert wrote > > > >I guess there's not much one can say to you, Mike, given that kind of > > an > > >attitude on your part. > > > > > >Albert > > > > > >---- > > > > I agree with Albert and Rita. A little pruneing of the previous > > messages is not to much to ask. I also tend to delete most of your and > > some others responses for lack of time. Please try to help all of use > > our time eficiently, as you often have interesting things to say, > > things that may be lost to those of us to busy to hassle with lazy > > responses. > > > > ms > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Hey Mike; > > Talk about lazy? Ever hear, or use, the shift key? > > Lazy Phil. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass dont' mean to sound rude or anything...but what the HELL are you talking about?? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 15:03:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBpej-0001Dra; Fri, 11 Oct 96 15:02 PDT X-Path: aol.com!GlasCrafts From: GlasCrafts@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Warner Crivellaro Problems? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 18:01:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.14158.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike Peck, Your implication that Warner-Crivellaro is "not reputable" because they are a cataloger is completely out of line. Why is it the responsibility of W-C to replace glass (presumably at no charge) that is broken by UPS? Particularly in light of the statement "I know how UPS treats things....." Obviously Delphi can afford to replace glass if their prices are "considerably more". That is Delphi's business choice. As you said, you have to pay extra for extra service from a retailer, why would it be different for a cataloger? You completely miss the fact that you are accepting the same terms from your "reputable" wholesaler. By your own admission you accept special box shipments of glass cut in half AT YOUR OWN RISK! Mr Peck, that means if you do get breakage, it is not going to be replaced at no charge. If you sold a couple of sheets of glass to a customer and they walk outside your store and drop them......would you replace their glass at no charge? Would the customer who dropped the glass expect to have it replaced at no charge? If the answers are no, then why is the cataloger responsible for free replacement of glass when it is broken in shipment? Ultimately, each problem must be resolved individually, to the satisfaction of all parties involved. If each party is realistic and reasonable in their expectations, then this is usually not difficult - whether you are a retailer, cataloger, or customer. Glass Crafters Stained Glass, Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 16:28:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBqzs-0000qWa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 16:28 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Greek /Crashes(not glass Date: 11 Oct 96 18:24:21 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct11.222421.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Has anyone been crashing today due to bungi mail? I noticed some mail >showing up in Greek before you go to"next" why? Is this common? April Only in Greece (just foolin') What are you using for reader software? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 16:28:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBqzs-0000tJa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 16:28 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Photographs Date: 11 Oct 96 18:24:10 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct11.222410.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >How do I take a picture of a window without getting a background, or >flash glare, with transparent glass? Ellen Having done a little glass photography myself, I'd say having no background when photographing transparent glass is not a good idea. You can't see the glass ... that is, you can't see its character. If you use a narrow focal length (low F-stop number), bushes and trees in the background are out of focus, but because the *glass is in focus, those items are distorted by its texture and give life to the image. Take a look at Spectrum's great shots on their site (www.spectrumglass.com) and you'll see what I mean. Of course, kids' trikes and bikes and passing cabs are another story altogether. Albert __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 16:28:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBqzs-00013Aa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 16:28 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: 11 Oct 96 18:24:18 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct11.222418.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I agree with Mike...if there is not some context of what the original >message was the thought gets lost. And if people are to lazy or not >interested in it...well delete it. pj The concern that's been expressed is that it's not thoughful to lazily hit "Reply" and retransmit 50 lines of previous message(s) in order to respond, instead of echoing only part the message ... as I have done above. More disturbing than the lack of thoughtfulness, though, has been the in-your-face truculance that reminds me more of my 14-year-old boy than another adult. What's interesting is that I've had several private notes agreeing with my surprise at the lack of thoughtfulness. An example: Just a note to let you know that I thought Mike took a cheap shot but to be honest it doesn't surprise me. I for one hate they way they print out the entire previous message and then add "thanks" at the bottom as their answer. I totally support you request and wanted you to know that. I for one lately when I see, "M. Savad" I click on it and drag it to the trash unread. Then "dump the trash" often. ... Others have dropped me notes, too, saying they agreed, that they'd written to Mike and gotten flames back from him. He's a wee bit defensive, methinks. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 16:28:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBqzs-00004ia; Fri, 11 Oct 96 16:28 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Pricing a Beveled Window Date: 11 Oct 96 18:24:12 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct11.222412.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >But how does one arrive at a price when rather expensive bevel >clusters are included in the design? Kay Size and number of pieces have nothing to do with the formula: Your cost of materials + The value of your time and labor + Profit Margin = Retail price So if the materials are expensive, the retail price is higher; if it's taken you a long time to build the piece ("there's 18,572 pieces in that panel!"), the retail price is higher; if you need a fat margin, the price is higher. Of course, I know of a glass artist whose windows for a while had only three pieces of glass in them ... and he *still commmanded very high prices. (They were the *right three pieces of glass, you see.) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 17:31:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBrzB-0000z2a; Fri, 11 Oct 96 17:31 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 20:26:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.162637.0> References: <<1996Oct11.222418.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis [IGGA] wrote: > > >I agree with Mike...if there is not some context of what the original > >message was the thought gets lost. And if people are to lazy or not > >interested in it...well delete it. > > pj > > The concern that's been expressed is that it's not thoughful to lazily hit > "Reply" and retransmit 50 lines of previous message(s) in order to respond, > instead of echoing only part the message ... as I have done above. > > More disturbing than the lack of thoughtfulness, though, has been the > in-your-face truculance that reminds me more of my 14-year-old boy than another > adult. > > What's interesting is that I've had several private notes agreeing with my > surprise at the lack of thoughtfulness. An example: > > Just a note to let you know that I thought Mike took a cheap > shot but to be honest it doesn't surprise me. I for one hate they > way they print out the entire previous message and then add > "thanks" at the bottom as their answer. I totally support you > request and wanted you to know that. I for one lately when I see, > "M. Savad" I click on it and drag it to the trash unread. Then > "dump the trash" often. ... Others have dropped me notes, too, > saying they agreed, that they'd written to Mike and gotten flames back > from him. He's a wee bit defensive, methinks. > > Albert > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ok i think this is getting a wee bit out of hand, alot of you are righting me and agreeing with me, and we're all agreed that the people who keep posting about this topic is a bit hyper sensitive to this little thing. it's not a big deal. if you want to delete fine, miss out on the wisdom that i'm dispensing. i flamed the people who wrote to me, because they type it out in such a way, that i had too. it's not like i'm cursing everyone out, sending out subjects that don't relate anything to glass (like this one), or anything like that. your saying that i'm lazy for not deleting lines, i say your lazy for not pushing scroll down. basically it's scroll, read, delete, not very hard. and besides i'm not the only one who does this. and by the way, i'm not going to change either, why should i? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 17:36:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBs4D-0000zIa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 17:36 PDT X-Path: sympatico.ca!taylor_buckner From: "H. Taylor Buckner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Warner Crivellaro problems Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 20:36:03 -0400 Message-ID: <199610120036.UAA04324@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I, too, am running out of patience with the people at W-C. On Aug 16 I placed orders with both Delphi and Warner Crivellaro. The Delphi order arrived within 7 - 10 days. Two subsequent orders to Delphi have been filled promptly. After the middle of Sept. when the order from W-C had not arrived, I called to see what the problem was. I was told that the came bender I'd ordered had been on back order but was in that day, the rest of my order (patterns) was ready and that the parcel would be going out the next day. I called AGAIN on Oct 9 to find out that, yes the came benders were indeed in but that several of my patterns were on back order and would I like to wait until the whole order was together before they sent it? I am to say the least underwhelmed by these folks and yes, I'm willing to pay the extra that Delphi charges for the assurance that I will get what I order in reasonable time. And, to reassure Mike Peck and other retailers, I do give my local supplier (in my case local means 85 kilometres away) enough business that he recently started giving me a significant discount. Jennifer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 19:16:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBtcQ-0000VMa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 19:16 PDT X-Path: scv.net!fullspec From: Kay Allen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mike Savad Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:14:40 -0700 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961012021440.006a6b3c@mail.scv.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NOT GLASS RELATED Hello all, I would like to pitch my two cents in regarding whats going on with this list and Mike Savad. It's not easy to do but a very important lesson to learn in life is that all people are DIFFERENT. . We cannot expect everyone to do as we do. We will always be disappointed. I understand the frustration of those that wish to archive the list responses but please remember that Mike is usually the first one to jump in and reply to someone's question. I tend to focus on this part of his personality rather than on his lack of typing or editing skills. Kay Allen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 20:09:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBuSD-0000lWa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 20:09 PDT X-Path: scv.net!fullspec From: Kay Allen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Pricing a Beveled Window Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 20:08:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961012030809.00667bb4@mail.scv.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 20:25:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBuhN-0000W1a; Fri, 11 Oct 96 20:25 PDT X-Path: cetlink.net!karlp From: "KARL L. PREISACH" To: Subject: CAUTION!! NOT GLASS RELATED Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 23:18:06 -0400 Message-ID: <199610120322.XAA06822@moltar.cetlink.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello everyone, I noticed from some of the postings that a few people are having problems with crashes, gibberish, etc. Since I personally have had no problems, might I humbly suggest using Microsoft Mail & News. As I am sure most of you know, this software is free form MS homepage along with Internet Explorer 3.0. No problems with either one. Just my 2 cents, Karl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 20:27:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBujk-0000maa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 20:27 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: W C Problems? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 23:32:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.163221.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Jerri M Roey wrote: Their catalog says to notify the shipper re: damages, but my local UPSer tells me that UPS will tell me to notify the company. WC says they don't send replacements until the receive the damaged items. UPS also said they may not want to return broken glass. (I know how UPS treats things: I clerked for them in college, many years ago. I also married one of them.) > Jerri Hi Jerri, Mike and ...Glass, Inc. This is my opinion. Hope it helps. 1. Never let UPS leave until you check the package. If something is damaged request a inspection report for damaged delivered goods. They may call it something else in different areas but you get the idea. 2. If they say there is no such report refuse to sign for it and ask for their supervisor's name and number. (Everyone should know this drill) Don't except the shipment. 3. Call the supervisor make a complaint back it up in writing. Send a fax to ... Glass Inc, request timely replacement attach copies of damage report and your complaint to UPS. Follow with phone conversation. 4. If you don't receive response in 2-4 weeks fax again your request and notice of plans to file with the Better Business Bureau. Follow up with phone. 5. No response. File a complaint with BBB let them resolve it. In the future if it takes this long to get a catalog a red flag should go off. 6. If you plan to do more than $100 or what you are willing to lose to a mailorder business check them out call BBB in there area ask if they have resolved or unresolved claims. (I've went so far as to call the local police department to verify a questionable business) 7. Don't do business with mailorder catalogs that say they are not responsible for damaged goods. The nature of their business (mailorder) is for you to get undamaged goods. It is the responsibility of the ... Glass, Inc. to establish a responsible relationship with their deliverer. 8. It is a poor business practice to do otherwise. They have lost potential customers. It is a small amount of money to fix a problem like a broken piece of glass. It costs a lot of money to fix a bad reputation. 9. The money spent fixing "broken glass" generates more sells ie.. Delphi. 10. There is nothing like being able to look at your glass in person with someone you enjoy seeing. It maybe worth more than you know. April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 20:36:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBura-0001Ada; Fri, 11 Oct 96 20:35 PDT X-Path: nz1.netzone.com!lorley From: "Lorley L. Oneyear" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: W/C Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 20:36:25 -0600 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961012023625.0068c0fc@mail.netzone.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Jeri. I too am under whelmed w/ Warner Crivellero.. I placed an order and received a booklet that I did not order. I called customer service before 6 am on a Saturday and left a message for a return call. No one called back. I called Monday morning and did get through to a rep and was told they don't have customer service on the weekend. Their phone message did not state this, however. It took almost 3 weeks but I did get the correct booklet in the mail. Another thing.. they were out of stock for one of my items..I thought it would be back ordered, but she said I would actually have to reorder the item. Well.. I did.. I ordered it from Delphi... Just my observation.. Lorley ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 21:15:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBvTQ-0000sxa; Fri, 11 Oct 96 21:14 PDT X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz From: llutz To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Warner Crivellaro problems Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 14:21:16 +1100 Message-ID: <1996Oct13.12116.0> References: <<199610120036.UAA04324@smtp1.sympatico.ca>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk H. Taylor Buckner wrote: > > I, too, am running out of patience with the people at W-C. On Aug > 16 I placed orders with both Delphi and Warner Crivellaro. The Delphi order > arrived within 7 - 10 days. I'm glad I chose to order from Delphi- it reached me in inland Australia in 10 days and the 2 boxes were in perfect condition. I would find it very difficult to deal with W-C. Having to phone anyone about an order would drive the cost up too much- (we can't use your freecall numbers from Australia). I know where I will continue to order from. Larry from Minore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 11 21:28:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vBvgB-00014ha; Fri, 11 Oct 96 21:28 PDT X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Warner Crivellaro Problems? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 23:44:54 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct12.34454.0> References: <<1996Oct11.1561.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:06:01 +0000 mike peck writes: regarding my experiences, obviously i don't do any business with the >catalogues, but i know the reputable wholesalers will take merchandise >back. >however, there are some "special" arrangements on small shipments of >glass >where they will send up to four sheets, cut in half (about 24"x24") in >a box >at your risk. and i ask for such shipments all the time and have >never >received a single broken sheet. Hi Mike, Thanks for your comments. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but it seems like I've had at least one piece of glass broken with every order, even though they were packed very well. I've had some breakage that I didn't call about because I could still use the glass as I had planned. I had one box of 12 sheetes that looked like it'd been dropped off a 10 story building, but the pieces in the middle were fine. The outer six sheets must have been in 500 pieces and a lot of crumbs. Delphi was great about it. I guess I'll stick with the "good guys". And YES I plan to support my local shop. I'm so afraid they won't make it, I want to do all I can to help. I've already met one of the owners and told him I want to take all his classes. He was great and gave me my first lesson in reinforcing while we stood there talking (something I want to learn about). I've only had one class in copper foil, and that was several years ago. If they don't hurry it up, I'm going to go down and help them get the store in order (just kidding). It's just a shell of a store right now, and they're working on getting their shelve's built. The husband is doing most of the work himself. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 07:02:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vC4eJ-0000Mqa; Sat, 12 Oct 96 07:02 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: Stephanie Braman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: What's this group coming to? Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 10:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610121402.KAA26119@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am really becoming very distressed at the lack of courtesy within our group of late. The verbal sparring and gutter-sniping has really become too much. What has happened to everyone? The majority of the posts lately haven't been related to glass and when the topic is glass, individuals who have generally lurked come out swinging. Sure isn't very productive and leaves a bad taste in one's mouth. Until the past several weeks, I would open up my mail with anticipation and now it's just dread. This isn't fun or interesting anymore. Can't we lighten up and starting sharing glass questions and ideas again? Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 07:07:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vC4iy-0000Qra; Sat, 12 Oct 96 07:07 PDT X-Path: mail.bcpl.lib.md.us!panthony From: "last name: Anthony" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Warner Crivellaro Problems?misaddressed Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 10:05:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct12.6512.0> References: <<1996Oct12.34454.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerri M Roey wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:06:01 +0000 mike peck > writes: > > regarding my experiences, obviously i don't do any business with the > >catalogues, but i know the reputable wholesalers will take merchandise > >back. > >however, there are some "special" arrangements on small shipments of > >glass > >where they will send up to four sheets, cut in half (about 24"x24") in > >a box > >at your risk. and i ask for such shipments all the time and have > >never > >received a single broken sheet. > > Hi Mike, > > Thanks for your comments. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but it seems > like I've had at least one piece of glass broken with every order, even > though they were packed very well. I've had some breakage that I didn't > call about because I could still use the glass as I had planned. I had > one box of 12 sheetes that looked like it'd been dropped off a 10 story > building, but the pieces in the middle were fine. The outer six sheets > must have been in 500 pieces and a lot of crumbs. Delphi was great about > it. > > I guess I'll stick with the "good guys". And YES I plan to > support my local shop. I'm so afraid they won't make it, I want to do > all I can to help. I've already met one of the owners and told him I > want to take all his classes. He was great and gave me my first lesson > in reinforcing while we stood there talking (something I want to learn > about). I've only had one class in copper foil, and that was several > years ago. If they don't hurry it up, I'm going to go down and help them > get the store in order (just kidding). It's just a shell of a store > right now, and they're working on getting their shelve's built. The > husband is doing most of the work himself. > > Jerri > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 12:08:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vC9Pv-0000hVa; Sat, 12 Oct 96 12:08 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: BlindCopyReceiver:;@compuserve,.com Subject: IGGA ONLINE 10/12/96 Date: 12 Oct 96 15:05:49 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct12.19549.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ----------------------------------------------------------------- IGGA Online News Memo! October 12, 1996 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Random glass info passed along after being compiled by the International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Two new web sites of interest Perhaps you're interested in the restoration of stained glass? Then you should check out Julie Sloan's site at http://www.jlsloan.com She showcases restoration work done at St. Columba's in Newport, Rhode Island; at Judson Memorial Church in New York; and at Grace Church in that city. She includes a large feature on the glass work of Frank Lloyd Wright -- photographs are being added to the site at the moment, so it's going to get even richer -- and the Owner's Manual of Stained Glass Conservation for free downloading. Pass it along to those responsible for your local churches and public buildings that include glass. It's packed with useful information. Art in Architecture Press' new site features her award-winning book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," as well as the celebratory 125th anniversary edition, "Kunst aus Glas in der Architektur" (that's "Glass Art in Architecture") from Derix Studios; it features tons of photographs of stunning work from around the world. They've also got Otto Rigan's "Palace Doors of Abu Dhabi," the sumptuous recounting of the design and installation of Hubbel's fantastic work in Saudi Arabia. Art in Architecture's site is at http://www.aiap.com ================================================================= Do you like receiving this online news memo? Don't do anything; we'll send it to you whenever we get around to it, which might be fairly often. Or not. It depends on how busy the Exec. Dir., Albert Lewis, might be that day or week. You don't like it? If this is addressed to you DIRECTLY, simply reply to 70544.3642@compuserve.com saying UNSUBSCRIBE in the text of your message. If you receive it via a NEWSGROUP with a glass focus, you'll have to UNSUBSCRIBE from the newsgroup, alas. If you're receiving TWO copies, that's because you get it direct at your email address AND via the NEWSGROUP. Let us know in a note to 70544.3642@compuserve.com and we'll set the program to eliminate the duplicate copy. ================================================================= Our Mission: To facilitate communication among glass artists, to encourage education and promote excellence in the glass arts. __________________________________________ International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Tonetta Lake Road *** Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 [msg] Fax: (914) 278-2481 __________________________________________ Web site: http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ Membership info: 70544.3642@compuserve.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 12:25:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vC9gm-0000vRa; Sat, 12 Oct 96 12:25 PDT X-Path: usaor.net!madglass From: madglass@usaor.net (Mary Ann Dulemba) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What's this group coming to? Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:22:22 -0400 Message-ID: <199610121928.PAA25019@gate.usaor.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Bravo Stephanie! I must agree. As one of the new 'lurkers' to this newsgroup. >I am really becoming very distressed at the lack of courtesy within our >group of late. The verbal sparring and gutter-sniping has really become too >much. It makes a newcomer to the group sit back and wonder if anything they have to add will not be a *good enough* addition, solution or helpful hint for everyone. Remarks lead to me believe only a few have all the right answers. I have often thought about unsubscribing. Yes, I have found interesting little tidbits and helpful hints, but I must agree with Stephanie. In fact, Stephanie was the one who introduced me to this group and I was pleased with the comments, suggestions and tidbits. Thanks for letting me vent and to the many of who you have taken the time to help someone or offer assistance, even the occasional pat on the back, I applaud you. -- Registered ICC User check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 13:14:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCARk-0000NJa; Sat, 12 Oct 96 13:14 PDT X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: W C Problems? Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 16:13:47 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct12.201347.0> References: <<1996Oct11.163221.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >1. Never let UPS leave until you check the package. If something is >damaged request a inspection report for damaged delivered goods. They > >may call it something else in different areas but you get the idea. > >2. If they say there is no such report refuse to sign for it and ask >for >their supervisor's name and number. (Everyone should know this drill) >Don't acccept the shipment. Hi April, The only problem I see with this is that where I live, UPS does not require a signature. They do require signatures for apartments and businesses, but not in residential areas where they feel it's safe to leave a package. I usually am not home, and find a UPS package at my door. My driver tells me that they will not stand and wait for you to inspect a package unless the package is apparently damaged. If there's damage, they'll tell you to contact the shipper. Also, the shipper is UPS's customer, not the recipient. UPS replaces the loss to the shipper, not the recipient. I'm not worried about UPS. They're a great company and very customer oriented. I really just wanted to hear about anyone's experience returning broken glass to WC. It sounds like a big pain, but maybe it's not, AND yes I realize waiting 5 months for a catalog should have sent up a red flag. It did, but not having access to shops locally, I have to do everything via mail order, and I was willing to risk it. WC does carry a lot of things I haven't seen in any other catalogs. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 14:32:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCBes-0000q7a; Sat, 12 Oct 96 14:31 PDT X-Path: lodz.pdi.net!michu-g From: "=?Windows-1250?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" To: Subject: Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 01:24:26 +0100 Message-ID: <199610122128.WAA10492@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lately we got in for repair German-made front door triple glazed panel = /means 3 layers of glass plus SG done in foil and lead-heavy as hell/.It was sealed with butyl = and tiocol rubbers. Sealants lost their sealing properties due to flood.Not much damage to = SG seen yet due probably to absorbent used in inside alu distance frames.What is visible = is rainbowy fog on the inside of front float glass which side-effect is considered as = damage by client and curiously beautifull adornment by us 'couse it resembles iri effect = done on purpose by some glass-makers.If this is not removable we'll have a patent for = home-iridising. Probably it'll go off,only a matter of proper chemical-on the other hand = I wonder how come it developed.Got to delay delivery much to have chance to experiment = more. Greg ---------- > From: mike peck > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Brass Came: Shine on or off? > Date: 11 pa=9Fdziernika 1996 17:09 >=20 >=20 > > > By triple glazing doors, does this stop=20 > >the possibility of damage to the leadlight (I do realise people's = safety=20 > >come first, but I hate to see a beautiful panel damaged). Doors take = a=20 > >bit of a pounding and sometimes result in a crack in the leadlight = panel=20 > >here or there. >=20 > the triple glazed units that we have put together have been VERY = rugged to > abuse so it certainly reduces the amount of repairs we get calls for. = but > you know, the oldest triple glazed units that are out there are = probably > only ten years old at best. so, already, we have seen that some seals = have > failed allowing the argon or nitrogen to escape and the unit fills = with > condensate every time the humidity goes up, and many of the brassy = ones are > tarnishing out very badly. so now we sandwich the unit between = tempered > plate glass, then line the perimeter with a dessicated band to soak up = any > moisture, then seal it up with butyl rubber. i know the seals that we = use > today are much more durable than those we used only a few years ago, = but > sooner or later the butyl rubber will deteriorate and the dessicant = will > become saturated, then the unit will fill with condensate, etc. >=20 > most of the residential jobs we get will have some double glazed = window in > place (two sheets of clear plate sealed with dessicant) and we work = with > whatever mouldings the trim man left us to mount a leaded window on = the > interior of the home. we use clips to mount the leaded window so it = will be > removable for cleaning, etc. from the inside of the home, the leaded = window > will be in full brilliance, but from the outside of the home, the = leaded > window seems very subdued. it's a trade off, but if (or when!) the = seal > fails on the glazed window, the plate glass fogs up and there is no = damage > to the leaded window, it's much cheaper to repair, etc. >=20 > =20 > >I also can understand, what the customer wants.... The reason I was=20 > >going to put it into my door was for strength and secutiry, but I = love=20 > >the look of lead and the way it weathers over time. I'll just design = a=20 > >panel that will lend itself to lots of reinforcement. I might even = think=20 > >of double glazing. > > > >Andrea >=20 > in a commercial setting, i would encourage you to look at triple = glazing > simply for the strength and safety. but, residential is not as prone = to > abuse, so a pattern affording good reinforcement might be all that is > necessary. if you want to look at triple glazing, then i am NOT an = advocate > of sealing the unit up (per our local codes) rather i think a sandwich > between tempered plate with some kind of venting top and bottom might = be > more durable. even double glazed should be vented. >=20 > hope this helps, any other comments on this one? >=20 > Mike Peck >=20 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 14:44:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCBqt-0000rra; Sat, 12 Oct 96 14:44 PDT X-Path: cetlink.net!karlp From: "KARL L. PREISACH" To: Subject: First "Large" Panel Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:40:05 -0400 Message-ID: <199610122144.RAA25617@moltar.cetlink.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello Everyone, I am starting my first project of any size and could use some advice as to it's construction. The finished size is 27" square. Looks to contain app. 100 to 125 pieces. It is a copper foiled panel,and I plan to frame it when done. As to questions; 1) Should the panel be reinforced? If so, with rods or that flat flexible stuff on a roll that goes between the pieces? 2) If I use the flat stuff, does it go around every piece or just in some areas? 3) As to framing; should I use the "U" shaped framing stock or is standard framing with glazier points strong enough? 4) The panel will be hung on a white painted wall with two recessed "eyeball" ceiling spotlights shining on it. Should there be any consideration made as to glass color? That is, should I use relatively light colored glass so that the light reflects off the wall or does it matter? 5) What would be the best way to hang it? A small cable like a conventional picture or a chain that would be visible? I realize that this a lot if information to ask, but I know of no better source. Many TIA Karl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 15:41:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCCkP-000165a; Sat, 12 Oct 96 15:41 PDT X-Path: calhoun.lakes.com!oddjob From: "Edward W. Reitmann" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Another Stove Black Source Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:39:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct12.123929.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I was able to pick up Stove Black at my local "True Value Hardware = Store". Manufactured by MEECO, Seattle Washington..1-800-426-9393 , Red = Devil Black Stove and Iron Polish. 8 oz.bottle, $ 3.39. The lable claims = " it is for use on stoves and cast iron. Non-toxic water based = combination of high quality waxes and black pigment.Buffed to a high = luster it adds life and beauty to surfaces while protecting against rust = and corrosion." I have yet to try it but will report when I do. Being non-toxic and water soluble would be a plus over the current = comercial black patina. There seems to be a lot of interest in this subject. I am curious to = know if manufacturers "here across the pond" as Toby says, will wonder = why there is all of a sudden a demand for a product that is basically = for use on items that are not being used anymore by the average = household.( ie: cast iron cookware and wood stoves . Sue Reitmann Artistry In Glass Shorewood, MN ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 16:35:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCDZu-0000s3a; Sat, 12 Oct 96 16:34 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: Stephanie Braman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Fireplace Screens Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610122334.TAA03494@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lately, I have been receiving many inquiries about fireplace screens. Does anyone have any idea what the standard dimensions of the 3 pieces would be? There are several beautiful examples in a new book "Stained Glass Basics" by Chris Rich with my personal favorite being a Victorian design done with clear textures, teal blues and purples. I especially liked the creative use of a bevel cluster in this design. Instead of the cluster being closely grouped it has been spread out into the design in a "burst" type of pattern. It's very lovely. Thanks for any assistance. Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 16:52:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCDqO-0000fQa; Sat, 12 Oct 96 16:51 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Mike Savad Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 23:40:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199610122305.AAA13492@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk To Kay Allen You wrote: ... Mike Savad is usually the first one to jump in.... Yes you are absolutely dead right, a point I have put on record many times. He is quite magnificent in that respect. But "even" the great minds must be "tamed" on the odd occasion..... It's precisely BECAUSE I don't wish people to miss his message, that I am pleading with him to help us focussing... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 16:52:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCDqP-0000ola; Sat, 12 Oct 96 16:51 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Warner Crivellaro Problems? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 23:40:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199610122305.AAA13498@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk To Glass Crafters and general Info: You wrote: ...Why is Cataloger responsible for free replacement of glass, when it is broken in shipment? .... Simple, my friend, .... and not wishing to make "heavy weather" out of this issue: If "seller" appoints "shipper", then they are jointly responsible for shipment until it has been accepted by "buyer" as received in tact. THEY should argue it out between them (e.g. badly packed by "seller", carelessly shipped by "shipper" etc, etc). "Buyer" should have and DOES have redress, and should not even have to get involved. But until "buyer" has received goods and received them in tact, HE is NOT responsible for what happens until the moment he unpacks goods and inspects them. Hence, your analogy of handing something over in a shop - where buyer has had the opportunity of inspecting goods before accepting them - is not valid. Perhaps you might like to check up on your International Shipping Regulations, which is acceptable standard world-wide..... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 16:52:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCDqN-0000rJa; Sat, 12 Oct 96 16:51 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Infinite loop? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 23:40:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199610122305.AAA13489@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Mike (Savad), Go and have a nice, refreshing, c-o-o-o-l beer; We all love you really.... You have so much to contribute; I am often impressed by your sharp and comprehensive guidance. But could you edit just a tiny, little, weeny bit.... Just a tiny touch; ... like "top and tail" vegetables (like getting rid of too many titles and too many signatures) ;-) Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 17:44:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCEef-0000OVa; Sat, 12 Oct 96 17:43 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:16:42 +0000 Message-ID: <199610130041.BAA27201@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Brass Came Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 20:31:57 -0400 Reply-to: glass@bungi.com Toby wrote: > > Mike to Len : Agree with you Mike! To "Joe Public" Brass Equals > Class, he thinks, without the faintest idea of what traditional > stained glass is all about. > > Making solder "green" to match brass (...when green), your e-mail > addressed to April: > "verre de gree" (spelling?) - try: verre de gris > Elisabeth 'n Toby i was close...:) but you knew what i was talking about at least. ---Mike Savad Yes Mike, You were very close. I myself have been "corrected" by Mary. The term should be verdigris - one word -, and apparently it is a term referring to the greenish patina on copper, brass or bronze. The oracle has spoken, and I am quite happy to stand corrected. Keep smiling Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 17:54:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCEod-0000eha; Sat, 12 Oct 96 17:54 PDT X-Path: aol.com!ScottSGN From: ScottSGN@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: [WARNING: LONG POST] Re: photographing glass Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 20:52:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct12.165245.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I noticed a question about photographing stained glass a couple of days ago. Here's a column that Randy Wardell wrote for an issue of Stained Glass News that was published last April. Hope you find it useful: *********************************** Spring is here (or at least should be by the time you read this) and it's a great time to dust off the camera and take some pictures. Photographs, that is, of your finished glass projects. I don't know how many times I've heard someone say "I did a beautiful stained glass (fill in any subject matter here) a couple of years ago but I didn't take a picture of it to show you." (Truth is, I've heard myself say that.) Barb from Oregon asks: "I have a good 35mm camera with focus and light adjustments. Would it be best to take the picture (of a panel) in an east window after the sun has passed over? Do I use a flash? Any advice would be appreciated." And Harold from California says "I am having problems taking pictures that show true colors. I need an article on this." Thanks for the questions and the suggestion for the article. I have been taking photographs of stained glass for more than 18 years. Some of the images are very impressive with dramatic lighting and saturated colors and some, quite frankly, are odoriferous and that is the nature of the beast. Taking good photographs of stained glass is difficult and involves a proper setup, perfect lighting (either natural or artificial or both), the right equipment and film, and a bit (or a lot) of luck. The fact is, Barb, there is no easy answer for the "best way" and as for Harold's achieving "true colors," that's a doctoral thesis in itself. There are some basics that we can make sure are in place and some tips and tricks to try. First, equipment. Barb has a 35mm camera with manual controls and that can be a big help. However, you can get excellent results with one of the fully automatic "point and shoot" cameras as well. Depending on the subject matter, you may need supplemental lighting. I like to use tungsten lights which are standard bulb type lights (as opposed to flash or professional strobe lights). I prefer the tungsten lights because I feel they let me see my lighting setup a little better. You can purchase a metal cone & socket lamp with a spring clip mount at most department stores, but you will need to go to a photography supply shop to get the special "tungsten blue-photo bulbs." You will also need a "scrim," which is simply a backdrop on a movable frame. A bed sheet hung from a makeshift frame can work for this. When photographing windows, especially if they contain bevels, you will need a large silk plant (or a fake Christmas tree in a pinch). Finally, I want to recommend a tripod. It will make the setup process a lot easier and more reliable. If you have a manual 35mm camera that can be set for long exposures, it is essential. So let's set up a typical photographic scenario. You have installed a new entry door panel and sidelight combination. The panels contain some color in the borders, clear textures in the background and a bevel cluster in the center. The entry faces east and has a porch roof overhang that partially shades the top part of the windows. This photograph can be set up in two different ways-from the inside using natural light and from the outside at dusk using tungsten lights inside. First, take the photograph from the inside of the house. Set your camera on a tripod and frame the shot, centering the entire entryway or perhaps even include a bit of the house interior if possible to give a feeling of how the stained glass fits into its environment. Now here's a major tip: Look carefully through the lens and observe every little thing. Look for glare or hot spots, look for harsh shadows (especially shadows from objects that are not in the photo), check that the light is even across the glass (subject) and on the frame or any other items you may want to include in the photograph. Decide if you need any supplemental lighting. Usually, you will need at least one fill light above and to one side of the camera. This will give definition to interior details (the door, frame etc.) and avoid making the stained glass look as if it's installed in a black hole. Add the tungsten lights and look through the lens again to check for glare. Move the light until the glare disappears. Now look through the lens and then through the window panels and observe what is on the other side. If you have bevels and clear textures, chances are they are almost flat looking with no bevel edge definition and little texture. Here's where the silk plant comes in. Place the plant about 2 or 3 feet from the window on the outside. Position it so it's centered in the window, while looking through the lensx are you sensing a prevailing theme here? You will notice that the plant allows the bevel and texture to bend and break the light and gives them a frame of reference. (This is a photographic trade secret-use it often.) With luck, it will be a partly cloudy day, so I can take photos both with full sun and with no direct sun. If it's overcast, you could add some lights or if it's not cloudy at all, you just have to wait until the sun has moved past the window completely. The idea is to take photos in all these conditions because you never know for sure which one will be the "keeper." The second setup will be from the outside at dusk (or even after dark) looking toward the entryway. Set up the camera and tripod, and frame the photograph the way you want it. Be sure to look through the lens and through the glass window to see what is beyond the door. Very often there will be something undesirable (for the photo) that can be moved or covered up, like a painting on the wall or some dark colored furniture. Move these items or use the bed sheet you brought to cover up and kill this distraction. Now add your tungsten lights. Another tip: don't shine the lights at the window, shine them on the objects just behind the window. The wall, the ceiling or if these are too far away, you will need to set up the scrim we talked about earlier. Finally place the silk plant behind the window to give it a frame of reference and definition. To sum up: take lots of pictures. If you have a manual camera, use the light meter to get an average reading and "bracket" your shots on either side of this average. (Take at least two photos with slower exposures, one at the average setting and two at faster exposures.) If you have an automatic camera, turn off the flash and take a photo. Then turn the flash on and cover the flash with your finger (or put some black tape over it) to prevent it from putting glare on the glass. By turning on the flash, you fool the automatic camera into thinking it is in a low light situation and it adjusts the exposure a little bit slower. If you have a manual focus camera, focus often and always re-focus just before you shoot. And now, at last, I will answer Harold's "true colors" question. You are probably using the wrong type of film for the light you are in (daylight vs. tungsten film). You may need to use some color correcting filters or a different film. Color problems can be confusing and I would suggest that you take your photos to a pro-camera shop and get some individual advice. I hope this helps. Please do always take photos of your work. However they turn out, they're better than nothing. Until next timex (c) 1996 Stained Glass News ************************************ Scott Stained Glass News ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 18:07:12 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCF16-0000pna; Sat, 12 Oct 96 18:06 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: W C Problems? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 23:40:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199610122305.AAA13495@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April Payne on 11 Oct.: Your 10 Point Rules on Damaged Goods: Well said April!!! Don't forget that there is also a point of Law, that many ordinary consumers are oblivious of. As a rule, ordering from mail order catalogue houses, it is THEY who contract shipper and insurance coverage; it's THEIR responsibility to ensure that the goods are received by you in tact AND HASSLE-FREE. If YOU are incurring costs for handling, returning and communicating about damaged goods, then you are entitled to financial recompense from the SELLER. Make sure that you are paying for "free delivered address", i.e. you have paid the SELEER for freight, insurance and costs. The Seller then contracts HIS shipper, HIS insurers and any subsequent damage arguement should be between Seller and HIS contractors and NOT between you & Shipper, you & Insurer and you & Seller. So don't allow yourself to get browbeaten and intimidated by some bu&88%sh+=A3$* !!! However, Sellers all too often try and "pass the Buck" and often play on peoples' ignorance. End your purchase orders to these high & mighty Mail Order Houses with a phrase (in writing) something like "Failure to replace damaged goods within 7 working days without extra costs of any kind to ourselves, directly or indirectly,, will automatically result in Court Proceedings being taken against you". Something outrageous. If nothing else, it will certainly make them sit up and take notice and be evvvver so careful how they handle you.... and write it in LARGE RED LETTERS. YOU are the customer, after all - so call the tune Don't be afraid to call a spade a shovel! Elisabeth 'n Toby. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 18:42:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCFXm-0000R8a; Sat, 12 Oct 96 18:40 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Another Stove Black Source Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:13:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199610130138.CAA03712@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sue Reitman: Another black stove polish source..... . Yes, Sue : .... and so WHAT... Let's keep the Manufacturers on their toes.... I buy my "stove black polish" from an old market town hardware shop that has been established for over 150 years. They too are quite puzzled why the sudden demand in old black stove polish, when I appear to buy 20 -30 tubes for my students. I just smile sweetly and say something like - "ain't Life funny and strange", pays ,me money, get my tubes wrapped and depart wickedly with a silly grin on my face..... They are doing a grand job in keeping up with me..... Don't worry, it's not YOUR job informing the manufacturers of what you want; it's THEIR job supplying what you want to buy......:-) Let's keep them guessing!! The Wicked Witch from the Wicked Forest of Europe Elisabeth 'n Toby (who stirs the cauldron...) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 18:42:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCFXm-0000Pga; Sat, 12 Oct 96 18:40 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: software evaluation Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:13:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199610130138.CAA03709@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: mdcglas@rmplc.co.uk (mdc glasgow) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: software evaluation Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:43:40 +0100 Reply-to: glass@bungi.com Elizabeth wrote ..... >I'll be happy to share my evaluation experiences with those of you >interested. Still have all my notes and correspondence with them. >On or off the Group... >Elisabeth 'n Toby I for one would be very interested in reading your evaluation of the software in my dual roles as a computer support person {I wonder if I could convince my boss that this software could be used for CAD in schools mmm.... (g) } and glass artist anything you could forward would be great Thanks Phil ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Yes Phil, Still waiting for your input. Would be quite happy to help, bu I too need to rationalize on time spent between earning a living anbd time answering questions. Hence would welcome focussed questions that I could get my teeth around... Fire ahead... Elisabeth 'n Toby. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 20:05:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCGrh-0000ora; Sat, 12 Oct 96 20:05 PDT X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz From: llutz To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Fireplace Screens Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:02:06 +1100 Message-ID: <1996Oct14.026.0> References: <<199610122334.TAA03494@vixa.voyager.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Stephanie Braman wrote: > > Lately, I have been receiving many inquiries about fireplace screens. Does > anyone have any idea what the standard dimensions of the 3 pieces would be? >From what I have seen- fireplace sizes vary a lot- I'm sure there are some reasonably standard screen sizes- However, I feel that if you put labour into a project like this, aim for something that suits the individual fireplace and don't worry if it isn't a standard size. I couldn't have one here- the cats wouldn't have their place to stretch out and stay warm. Larry from Minore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 20:06:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCGs7-0000tda; Sat, 12 Oct 96 20:05 PDT X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 20:42:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct12.134239.0> References: <<199610122144.RAA25617@moltar.cetlink.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk KARL L. PREISACH wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > I am starting my first project of any size and could use some advice > as to it's construction. The finished size is 27" square. Looks to contain > app. 100 to 125 pieces. It is a copper foiled panel,and I plan to frame it > when done. As to questions; > 1) Should the panel be reinforced? If so, with rods or that flat > flexible stuff on a roll that goes between the pieces? > 2) If I use the flat stuff, does it go around every piece or just in > some areas? > 3) As to framing; should I use the "U" shaped framing stock or is > standard framing with glazier points strong enough? > 4) The panel will be hung on a white painted wall with two recessed > "eyeball" ceiling spotlights shining on it. Should there be any > consideration made as to glass color? That is, should I use relatively > light colored glass so that the light reflects off the wall or does it > matter? > 5) What would be the best way to hang it? A small cable like a > conventional picture or a chain that would be visible? > I realize that this a lot if information to ask, but I know of no > better source. > Many TIA > Karl > ---- > Hi, Yes, that's a lot of questions. They're good ones though and I'm anxious to hear the responses as I too would like to know several of the points you've asked about. T. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 20:16:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCH29-00016Oa; Sat, 12 Oct 96 20:16 PDT X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: Stained Glass Subject: Soldering Irons Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 20:53:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct12.13535.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Hi, I would like some info on soldering irons. I've been using an older Weller 100, put a new 1/4" No.7 tip on about 6 months ago and two days ago the tip became corroded, won't hold solder. The iron also heats inconsistently, sometimes causing the iron tip, solder and lead joint to all become One; it takes 2 to 3 seconds for the iron to heat enough to disengage the above. I'm thinking I need a new iron. Agree? Do I need different irons or tips for lead than for copper foil? Is there a place to mail order a Weller 100 at a reasonable price? Do you recommend another brand of iron? If so, which brand and what are the advantages? Please respond to: chip3@montana.com -- Thanks, T. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 12 20:19:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCH4f-0000XDa; Sat, 12 Oct 96 20:18 PDT X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: Stained Glass Subject: Copper came Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 20:56:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct12.135614.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk I'm looking for any advice on soldering copper came. I incoporated some in a leaded piece and had a battle trying to do it justice. Either the solder wouldn't stick, or the glob of solder looked like I was practicing, a novice (though I'm relatively new at this). In other words, the copper came joints were a real mess after I tried to solder them. I cleaned the copper well with 0000 steel wool before assembling the pieces into the leaded piece. I used a regular amount of flux, but the copper seemed to "wick" away so much heat from the iron that I couldn't get a decent joint. Any advice? Please respond to: chip3@montana.com -- Thanks, T. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 04:23:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCOcg-00019Za; Sun, 13 Oct 96 04:22 PDT X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz From: llutz To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Copper came Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:22:13 +1100 Message-ID: <1996Oct14.82213.0> References: <<1996Oct12.135614.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Phil Taylor wrote: > > I'm looking for any advice on soldering copper came. I incoporated some > in a leaded piece and had a battle trying to do it justice. Either the > solder wouldn't stick, or the glob of solder looked like I was > practicing, a novice (though I'm relatively new at this). In other > words, the copper came joints were a real mess after I tried to solder > them. I cleaned the copper well with 0000 steel wool before assembling > the pieces into the leaded piece. I used a regular amount of flux, but > the copper seemed to "wick" away so much heat from the iron that I > couldn't get a decent joint. Any advice? Please respond to: I would make sure of a close fit & if the joint is pulling the heat out of the iron too quickley- use an iron with more mass (in other words- bigger) but not necessarily hotter- Larry from Minore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 04:23:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCOcg-0000cGa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 04:22 PDT X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz From: llutz To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Soldering Irons Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:14:05 +1100 Message-ID: <1996Oct14.8145.0> References: <<1996Oct12.13535.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Phil Taylor wrote: > > Hi, I would like some info on soldering irons. I've been using an > older Weller 100, put a new 1/4" No.7 tip on about 6 months ago and two > days ago the tip became corroded, won't hold solder. The iron also > heats inconsistently, sometimes causing the iron tip, solder and lead > joint to all become One; it takes 2 to 3 seconds for the iron to heat > enough to disengage the above. > I'm thinking I need a new iron. Agree? > Do I need different irons or tips for lead than for copper foil? > Is there a place to mail order a Weller 100 at a reasonable price? > Do you recommend another brand of iron? If so, which brand and what are > the advantages? Please respond to: chip3@montana.com -- Thanks, T. I'm not sure what a Weller 100 is but suspect it has a plated tip- I use an iron with a right angle bend (my favorite- at least). It does not have a plated tip and is copper and replaceable- so can be gotten after with a big file when it starts getting pitted. The footprint is a circle. I have some chisel pointed ones too, but prefer the right angle one- I have an 80 watt & 120 watt- I use a home made reostat to control the temperature as there is no inbuilt heat controller- very similar to a dimmer switch for lights. Both can be used on foil or lead work- One other feature of my soldering irons- they have wooden handles- some of the irons with plastic handles can get a bit warm after awhile. I know this wasn't exactly the answer you were looking for but hope it gives you a different perspective on choosing a new iron. Larry from Minore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 06:30:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCQbu-0000Esa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 06:29 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Copper came Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:29:35 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct13.132935.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 03:56 AM 10/13/96 +0000, you wrote: >I'm looking for any advice on soldering copper came. I incoporated some >in a leaded piece and had a battle trying to do it justice. Either the >solder wouldn't stick, or the glob of solder looked like I was >practicing, a novice (though I'm relatively new at this). In other >words, the copper came joints were a real mess after I tried to solder >them. I cleaned the copper well with 0000 steel wool before assembling >the pieces into the leaded piece. I used a regular amount of flux, but >the copper seemed to "wick" away so much heat from the iron that I >couldn't get a decent joint. Any advice? Please respond to: >chip3@montana.com -- Thanks, T. Copper is a tremendous heat sink so your right that the came "wicks" away the heat from your iron. I use a hotter iron 800-900 degrees (F) for all hard cames, but for copper you might try 900-950. Also use a smaller tip because the came will discolor if you stay on it with a hot iron very long .... a larger tip will apply so much heat to the surroundings that you will get discoloration very easily, or worse, yet, get some heat cracks in your glass. Your tip should be a smaller one, about 1/8" works best for me, use a liberal amount of WATER BASED flux, and 63/37 solder (because it has the lowest melting point). I know it's tough to determine the tip temperature of your iron, but basically you should start with some scrap came and turn your rheostat full tilt and let it reach max temp. Experiment with the scrap came using the tip, flux and solder I suggested above to see if your getting a good flow of solder into the joint. If so, then back your rheostat off about 10%, give it a few minutes to equilibrate, then try another joint. Keep going until you see the copper is sucking your heat too quickly for the solder to soak in before freezing, then turn it up another 10% and that's your setting. This should give you max temperature to melt your solder into the joint and minimize potential for discoloration. Generally, with an iron rated at max temperature of 1000 degrees, a rheostat setting of 85-95 seems to work best on hard cames, I'm estimating this to be 850-950 degrees. Good Luck, Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 07:15:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCRK0-0000oIa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 07:15 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: Stephanie Braman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 10:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610131415.KAA25159@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Morning, Karl, >The finished size is 27" square. Looks to contain >app. 100 to 125 pieces. It is a copper foiled panel,and I plan to frame it >when done. As to questions; > 1) Should the panel be reinforced? If so, with rods or that flat >flexible stuff on a roll that goes between the pieces? Reinforcement never hurts and for a piece this size you can use whichever you prefer, but personally I would send to lean more toward the flexible reinforcing strips. > 2) If I use the flat stuff, does it go around every piece or just in >some areas? When using the flexible strip, it doesn't need to go around every single piece, only in one or two lines continuous strips horizontally from side to side. Plan the route on your paper pattern in advance before you even begin to cut out the pattern pieces and either indicate its route with a wider darkened line or with a bright highlighter. By doing this, you don't have to remember the route you selected and you can also accommodate this area by leaving a slightly wider gap between the glass pieces so that there is enough room for the restrip. > 3) As to framing; should I use the "U" shaped framing stock or is >standard framing with glazier points strong enough? Again, this is your preference. The "U" framing allows for a bit of flexibility with design. By this I mean that if your piece either shrinks or grows a tad, you can wait until it is finished and remeasure and adjust accordingly. I would advise that you consider using a came channel around the edges of your piece, because some of your design will be lost behind the framing otherwise. Standard Framing would also work. You know, I don't like to use glazier points because I have split a frame or two before. Instead, I secure my panels with silicone glue and use a wooden reed on the back side to cover this area and give it a more professional looking touch. > 4) The panel will be hung on a white painted wall with two recessed >"eyeball" ceiling spotlights shining on it. Should there be any >consideration made as to glass color? That is, should I use relatively >light colored glass so that the light reflects off the wall or does it >matter? No to color, but to opacity. This is a situation that I would tend to use more opaque or dense opal glasses because the coloring you see on the surface will be the look of the piece when it is on the wall. If you decide to use any mirror at all, then pass out sunglasses so you don't blind the viewer. > 5) What would be the best way to hang it? A small cable like a >conventional picture or a chain that would be visible? You could use hangars on the back of the frame so that they are in effect "hidden". For a piece this size, I would recommend finding the studs in the wall, for extra hanging strength and measuring the distance between them to determine where to place the hangars on the back of the frame. Also, always mount your hardware *before* putting the glass in it. Hope this is helpful. Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 07:40:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCRhm-0000UTa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 07:39 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!104344.622 From: "Christie A. Wood" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM> To: "bungi.com" Subject: Wierd glass rod lamp advice Date: 13 Oct 96 10:35:49 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct13.143549.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all. I need some advice on a possible work I might be doing (how's that for being non-committal?). An artist friend and I are trying to design a unique lamp/sculpture. The base is to be one of those very large champagne bottles (Nebukinezer, Jerhebohim, sorry about the terrible spelling). And out of this bottle the champagne is supposed to be spewing and bubbling, with the cork at the top of the whole thing. We want to make the "spewing champagne" out of something that transmits light and looks like champagne and won't look bad after a decade or two. We were thinking bent glass rods and optic fibers combined with clear glass nuggets. The "cork" at the top could have a light bulb hidden in it to shine light down through the "champagne", as well as the bottle having a light bulb in it to provide light from the bottom up. This objective requires hiding the wires up to the light bulb in the "cork", possibly through a hollow glass rod. Any thoughts on this? Ever seen anything remotely like it? Any comments will be greatly appreciated. ...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 07:41:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCRjS-0000roa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 07:41 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!104344.622 From: "Christie A. Wood" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM> To: "\"KARL L. PREISACH\"" Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: 13 Oct 96 10:35:52 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct13.143552.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi there Karl. Excellent questions. Here's my humble take on them. 1) Should the panel be reinforced? If so, with rods or that flat flexible stuff on a roll that goes between the pieces? Seems that the size (27" square) does dictate reinforcement. I like to use the flat flexible reinforcing tape for my copper foil pieces. In fact, it is the only type of reinforcing I CAN use in some of my very wierd, very irregular pieces. I have found it works well and is completely invisible in the finished product. 2) If I use the flat stuff, does it go around every piece or just in some areas? Just use it in some areas. I try to find the longest horizontal continuous line through the panel, and include the reinforcing that there. This way more than one individual piece of stained glass is connected to others along the line. I like to first layout the horizontal reinforcement lines, then go back and add additional vertical reinforcing lines as dictated by the pattern. You can bend the reinforcing tape around even the most ackward angles and curves by using some needlenose plyers. I layout the reinforcing lines during panel assembly prior to soldering. In most cases you can slip (wedge) the reinforcing tape between the copper-foiled pieces without sacrificing dimensions. But sometimes you might have to allow for the extra width of the reinforcing tape, if your dimensions are particularly critical. I have never had to do this though. The largest panel I've done using the reinforcing tape is a 6 feet horizontal by 3 1/2 feet vertical panel. I've got lots of reinforcing tape throughout the whole structure. The panel is inside a zinc U channel frame, which is then inside an oak external frame. 3) As to framing; should I use the "U" shaped framing stock or is standard framing with glazier points strong enough? I like framing with zinc U channels. If the piece requires the formality of wooden frames, I go with Northern Hardwood's frames for copper foil panels. 4) The panel will be hung on a white painted wall with two recessed "eyeball" ceiling spotlights shining on it. Should there be any consideration made as to glass color? That is, should I use relatively light colored glass so that the light reflects off the wall or does it matter? When working with direct lighting being the primary light source for a stained glass panel, rather than light shining through the panel, I choose opaque glass rather than clear cathedral glass. The darker colors do tend to all look dark brown or black, so a more pastel color pallet works best for me. The baroque streaky glass also shows up very well against a wall. But you have to be careful in using it so that the swirls in the streaky glass don't overwhelm your overall design. 5) What would be the best way to hang it? A small cable like a conventional picture or a chain that would be visible? I think the client might be able to help you here. Perhaps they have a preference. Sometimes on my abstract pieces which cannot be framed I just solder hanging loops into the structure and let the client hang it on the wall from nails. Hope this helps. Keep us posted on your progress! ...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 07:55:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCRx5-0000HEa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 07:55 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Soldering Irons Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:55:27 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct13.145527.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 10:14 AM 10/13/96 +0000, you wrote: >Phil Taylor wrote: >> >> Hi, I would like some info on soldering irons. I've been using an >> older Weller 100, put a new 1/4" No.7 tip on about 6 months ago and two >> days ago the tip became corroded, won't hold solder. The iron also >> heats inconsistently, sometimes causing the iron tip, solder and lead >> joint to all become One; it takes 2 to 3 seconds for the iron to heat >> enough to disengage the above. >> I'm thinking I need a new iron. Agree? >> Do I need different irons or tips for lead than for copper foil? >> Is there a place to mail order a Weller 100 at a reasonable price? >> Do you recommend another brand of iron? If so, which brand and what are >> the advantages? Please respond to: chip3@montana.com -- Thanks, T. Dear T. I have two Weller 100's that are both over ten years old. I find it to be one of the most rugged on the market, but not one of the most versatile because it does not work on a rheostat (ie, you must change the tip to vary the temperature). Wellers work on a bimetal expansion principle so you need full power for it to operate properly. Thus, the problem of sticking to the pieces sounds like it is not running at full power. Tip maintinance is easy, first of all, NEVER take a file to your tip. Get a salammoniac bar and rub the fully heated tip over it for several seconds with a small glob of melted solder (the molten solder will gently flow back and forth across the tip as you rub). The salammoniac bar will catalyze transfer of the tin from the molten solder to your tip. If your tip is badly corroded, then you may spend several minutes rubbing and turning your iron over the salammoniac bar, but it will re-tin. Have a wet sponge handy so you can quickly wipe away any crust that develops ......... and try to have some kind of ventilation going that will pull the vapors away from your face because it will smoke like hell! An artist came into my store one day complaining that her Weller 100 would not heat up enough to melt the solder. I took it over to my bench, plugged it into the wall and let it heat for a few minutes, then pulled out some solder and tried it out. It melted everything I tried, even solid lead when I held it for a full minute or so. Well, of course, I wasn't surprised, but she was. My first question was whether or not she was using a rheostat. No, she wasn't. Did it work before? Yes, it worked fine until her husband moved her studio from one end of the house to the other. Oh, maybe you need an electrician to see if your getting full power to the wall outlets at your new location. There where no wall outlets at the new location, so her husband ran three 25 foot extension cords in tandem from one end of the house to the other, through the rafters, around the water pipes and dangled it down over her bench. AHA! As it turned out, there was enough resistance in 75 feet of extension cord to drop the power to her iron just enough to interfere with normal operation of the iron. The moral here is that Wellers must have full power in order to operate properly, and it is sensitive to even slight reductions in power. Like I said earlier, the Wellers are certainly rugged, but not very versatile. I also like the Hakkos because they operate by a ceramic heating element that allows them to be used on a rheostat. You can dial in abouvt any temperature you like between 500 - 1000 degrees, and its idling temperature range is very narrow (maybe +/-25degrees) so it maintains very constant temp. I don't have any old Hakkos so can't speeak for their ruggness, but I like what I have seen so far. Don't give up on your Weller 100. Try the salammoniac bar on your tip. If you have already taken a file to it, pitch it and buy yourself a new tip. The tips come in 600 degree (#6) tip for decorative soldering, 700 degrees (#7) for foil and lead work, and 800 degrees (#8) for hard cames. 1/4" is most common, but I prefer to use a smaller tip (ie, 1/8") when decorating, or when using a #8 tip on hard cames. Good Luck, Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 07:56:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCRx5-0000COa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 07:55 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Soldering Irons Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:55:31 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct13.145531.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 10:14 AM 10/13/96 +0000, you wrote: >Phil Taylor wrote: >> >> Hi, I would like some info on soldering irons. I've been using an >> older Weller 100, put a new 1/4" No.7 tip on about 6 months ago and two >> days ago the tip became corroded, won't hold solder. The iron also >> heats inconsistently, sometimes causing the iron tip, solder and lead >> joint to all become One; it takes 2 to 3 seconds for the iron to heat >> enough to disengage the above. >> I'm thinking I need a new iron. Agree? >> Do I need different irons or tips for lead than for copper foil? >> Is there a place to mail order a Weller 100 at a reasonable price? >> Do you recommend another brand of iron? If so, which brand and what are >> the advantages? Please respond to: chip3@montana.com -- Thanks, T. Dear T., My first question is whether or not you are using a rheostat. Weller 100s do not work on a rheostat because they operate on a bimetal expansion principle. They must receive full power before they will maintain idling temperature, otherwise they will run cool and stick to your foil or lead, as you note is your problem. I have two Weller 100s that are both over ten years old and they are still running just fine. I think they are among the most rugged on the market, but certainly not the most versatile because you cannot run them on a rheostat. To change temp, you must change the tip. A 600 degree tip (#6) is used for decorative work, a 700 degree tip (#7) is used for lead and foil, and an 800 degree (#8) tip is used for hard cames. Also, a salammoniac bar is a must for retinning your tip (NEVER use a file on your tip!). Just heat your iron to full temp, put a small glob of fresh solder on the tip and rub it (hard, back and forth) across a salammonic bar. Keep a wet spong handy to wipe away any crust that develops and keep rubbing until you see a nice shiny tip. Also, leave a glob of solder coated on your tip when you store it as the solder coat will prevent any oxidation from happening at the tip surface. Also, try to have a slight cross-wind going while you're rubbing the tip out on the salammoniac bar as it will smoke like hell! An artist came into my shop one day complaining that her Weller 100 did not heat up. I took it over to my bench and plugged it into the wall and tried it out. It melted every type of solder I tried, including pure lead when I held it for a full minute or so. Well, I wasn't surprised, but she was. My first question was whether or not she was using a rheostat. No. Did it work OK before? Well, yes, until her husband moved her studio to another part of her house. Well, maybe you need an electrician to check out your wall outlets on that side of the house. Well, there were no wall outlets over there, so her husband ran three 25 ft extension cords in tandem, through the rafters, around the heating ducts and water pipes and dangled it down over her bench. AHA! ................. As it turned out, there was enough resistence in the extension cords to drop her overall power to the iron sufficiently to interfere with normal operation of the iron. The moral here is that Weller 100s need FULL power to run properly and are suseptible to even slight decreases in power. Don't give up on that Weller. If you have already filed on the tip, throw it away and get a new one. I like a 1/4" for general purpose soldering and I like a 1/8" tip when using a hot tip (#8) on hard cames, or when using a cold tip (#6) for decorative work. Also, I like the Hakkos. The 60 Watt general purpose iron works great on a rheostat, it dials in a specific temperature nicely, has a good idling range (rated at +/-25 degrees), and has a good ergonomic design and weight. I can't speak for its longevity as have only used it for a couple of years, but so far so good. Hope this helps. Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 08:20:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCSKg-0000SPa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 08:20 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:19:54 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct13.151954.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 03:42 AM 10/13/96 +0000, you wrote: >KARL L. PREISACH wrote: >> >> Hello Everyone, >> I am starting my first project of any size and could use some advice >> as to it's construction. The finished size is 27" square. Looks to contain >> app. 100 to 125 pieces. It is a copper foiled panel,and I plan to frame it >> when done. As to questions; >> 1) Should the panel be reinforced? If so, with rods or that flat >> flexible stuff on a roll that goes between the pieces? I usually recommend that you have some reinforcement every 18" or so through your panel. Since yours will have 100-125 pieces, it sounds kindda busy so not much chance you planned a straight break across the pattern to accommodate some rebar on the backside? If not, the "Strong Line" is a pretty good option. >> 2) If I use the flat stuff, does it go around every piece or just in >> some areas? Looking at your pattern, try to find a good series of breaks across the middle left to right, or top to bottom. Then, fit the Strong Line (flat stuff) in between these breaks by cutting and bending to the contours of your glass. Try to over lap the Strong Line so that when you come to a junction in your pattern where you cannot go on, drop down a few inches to one side or the other and look for another series of breaks that works it way to the edge of the panel. This will give your panel a "line of strength" through the middle. >> 3) As to framing; should I use the "U" shaped framing stock or is >> standard framing with glazier points strong enough? I use both. First, I run zinc U came around the piece (for something 27" square I'd use 1/2" U), then I frame it in wood so that the dado in the wood just covers the U channel. This is slightly over-built, but that's my choice. >> 4) The panel will be hung on a white painted wall with two recessed >> "eyeball" ceiling spotlights shining on it. Should there be any >> consideration made as to glass color? That is, should I use relatively >> light colored glass so that the light reflects off the wall or does it >> matter? Interesting approach, but i don't think your going to get much transmitted light through. I would suggest strong opals or even rough textured glass, I'd stay away from cathedrals completely. In fact, I think the rough textures would be much more interesting in this type of display because the viewer will get a broken reflection from the eyeball lights, rather than a sharp flash type of reflection. I'll be interested to see others reply to this type of display. >> 5) What would be the best way to hang it? A small cable like a >> conventional picture or a chain that would be visible? This depends on the glass you choose, with solid opals, I don't think you will get any (or much) transmitted light so a cable across the back (ala picture hanging) would be fine. But, if you do go with some cathedrals, you'll see the cable through the glass so the traditional chain hanging might work better. Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 08:41:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCSfa-00001sa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 08:41 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Wierd glass rod lamp advice Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:41:28 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct13.154128.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 02:35 PM 10/13/96 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all. I need some advice on a possible work I might be doing (how's that for >being non-committal?). > >An artist friend and I are trying to design a unique lamp/sculpture. The base >is to be one of those very large champagne bottles (Nebukinezer, Jerhebohim, >sorry about the terrible spelling). And out of this bottle the champagne is >supposed to be spewing and bubbling, with the cork at the top of the whole >thing. > >We want to make the "spewing champagne" out of something that transmits light >and looks like champagne and won't look bad after a decade or two. We were >thinking bent glass rods and optic fibers combined with clear glass nuggets. >The "cork" at the top could have a light bulb hidden in it to shine light down >through the "champagne", as well as the bottle having a light bulb in it to >provide light from the bottom up. This objective requires hiding the wires up >to the light bulb in the "cork", possibly through a hollow glass rod. This sounds like a great idea, but over the years, light bulbs become discontinued, electrical parts wear out, etc. I have seen some incredible sandblasted panels that mimik a foamy sea. In fact, Rebecca Marvel just described a technique that she has using liquid lead to get a foamy sea appearance. Look at some of the past issues of Common Ground magazine at 70544.3642@compuserve.com, or she can be reached directly at RAMARVEL@aol.com. Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 08:48:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCSmB-0000g2a; Sun, 13 Oct 96 08:48 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:48:19 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct13.154819.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 02:15 PM 10/13/96 +0000, you wrote: >Morning, Karl, >Standard Framing would also work. You know, I don't like to use glazier >points because I have split a frame or two before. Instead, I secure my >panels with silicone glue and use a wooden reed on the back side to cover >this area and give it a more professional looking touch. > Stephanie, Just curious on your coment regarding a wooden reed. Do you mean that it borders the U came somehow. What is it? A thin strip of wood? How thick? More details please, Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 08:57:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCSuP-0000W8a; Sun, 13 Oct 96 08:56 PDT X-Path: cetlink.net!karlp From: "KARL L. PREISACH" To: Subject: Large Panel Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 11:53:18 -0400 Message-ID: <199610131556.LAA12942@moltar.cetlink.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Many thanks to Christie and Stephanie for the advice. I feel much more confident that my project will be a success. The pattern I am using is from the Delphi catalog- "Admiring the Peonies" on page 33 of the new catalog. Well, looks like it's time to fill out another order to Delphi. Excellent people, products and service! Karl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 09:27:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCTO6-0000mJa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 09:27 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: Stephanie Braman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610131627.MAA09116@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike, >Just curious on your coment regarding a wooden reed. Do you mean that it >borders the U came somehow. What is it? A thin strip of wood? How thick? > >More details please, For the reed, imagine a circular piece of wood like a dowel that has been quartered. Generally the reeds are approx 3/8" - 1/2" wide. Cut the lengths of reed to the necessary dimensions for the openning in the back of the frame, also remember to mitre the reed so that it will fit snugly and give the backside of the frame a finished look. Place the frame face side down and position the glass panel in the openning face down. After positioning the glass, glue the panel in place with silicone, then finish off the edges over the silicone with the wooden reed. Silicone seems to be the best answer for framing, because if it is necessary to repair the glass panel as a later date, it is fairly simple to cut through and remove the silicone without destroying the frame. Does this explanation make more sense, Mike? Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 10:06:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCTzM-0000CKa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 10:06 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: How to repair foiled stained glass? Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 11:02:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19961013001142.18ef7268@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks from me too... the directions seem very clear and reasonable..... I used a coin to hold the glass at the level of the old glass on something I did recently. Meg At 10:49 AM 10/10/96 -0400, you wrote: >David Cogen wrote: >> >> Hi everyone. I am new to the list, and an amateur stained glass maker. >> >> I have made several pieces, but have never had to repair one yet. I am >> wondering: If I have a piece made from foiled glass, how to I remove a broken >> pane? It would seem that I would have to simultaneously melt all the solder >> surrounding the pane, so that I can remove the broken pane while the solder is >> melted. Obviously a soldering iron will not do that; it only melts near where >> the iron is at that instant. How is this done? >> >> -- David. >> >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >ok it's a little difficult to describe by typing, but i'll try. > >1. clean the project off, just to get any gunk off. > >2. score the broken piece like crazy, criss cross in a grid across the >piece. > >3. tap on the back of the piece, with the ball, to crack out the lines. > >4. carefully poke out the pieces with a needlenose pliers, be carefull >though you might bend the project. > >5. try to remove as much of the glass as you can, though don't force any >of it out. > >6. heat up your iron. > >7. apply alot of flux to both sides of the project, where the outline of >the piece was. > >8. melt the joint out with the iron, using the iron like a putty knife, >'walk' the iron under the foil so it lifts away. becarefull in this >step, because you could cause the surrounding pieces to crack, the >opposite foil to lift out or rip. > >9. continue doing this until all the old foil and glass is removed. it >might be difficult and smelly at first if the piece was patinaed. > >10. reflux the opening, and melt out any execess solder, just be sure >the opening is smooth. > >11. clean the project off, remove flux, dry, etc. then sweep off your >bench, you don't have to turn off your iron, unless the piece is going >to take a while to cut. > >12. put your new glass under the project, trace the opening onto the >glass (so you have a tight fit later). > >13. cut, grind (and be sure that it's going to fit), and foil the piece. > >14. stick it in the opening, and solder as usual, the only tricky part >is that the piece will be lower, depending on the height of the solder >on the back of the project. > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 10:20:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCUDM-0000p1a; Sun, 13 Oct 96 10:20 PDT X-Path: cetlink.net!karlp From: "KARL L. PREISACH" To: Subject: Thanks, Mike Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:17:07 -0400 Message-ID: <199610131720.NAA14546@moltar.cetlink.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks to you also, Mike. I wouldn't want to leave anybody out! All of the advice I have received is very helpful and much appreciated. Karl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 10:32:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCUOq-0000VDa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 10:32 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 17:32:20 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct13.173220.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 04:27 PM 10/13/96 +0000, you wrote: >Mike, > >>Just curious on your coment regarding a wooden reed. Do you mean that it >>borders the U came somehow. What is it? A thin strip of wood? How thick? >> >>More details please, > >For the reed, imagine a circular piece of wood like a dowel that has been >quartered. Generally the reeds are approx 3/8" - 1/2" wide. Cut the >lengths of reed to the necessary dimensions for the openning in the back of >the frame, also remember to mitre the reed so that it will fit snugly and >give the backside of the frame a finished look. Place the frame face side >down and position the glass panel in the openning face down. After >positioning the glass, glue the panel in place with silicone, then finish >off the edges over the silicone with the wooden reed. Silicone seems to be >the best answer for framing, because if it is necessary to repair the glass >panel as a later date, it is fairly simple to cut through and remove the >silicone without destroying the frame. > >Does this explanation make more sense, Mike? > >Stephanie > Yep, makes sense now, thanks for your reply. Sounds like your using a wooden frame with a profile similar to a picture frame (ie, rabbet groove on the back side). I have also thought of using such frames, but generally the depth of the rabbet is not deep enough to take your U came and a wooden reed. So, I opt to use frame stock with a dado wide and deep enough for the U, then I miter the corners and use countersunk screws on the ends to hold it together. That way i can take it apart for repairs if necessary. Where are you getting your frame stock? Or, do you supply it? (from your email address, may I assume you are with Delphi). Mike ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 10:55:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCUlH-0000cka; Sun, 13 Oct 96 10:55 PDT X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:54:12 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct13.175412.0> References: <<199610131415.KAA25159@vixa.voyager.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Stephanie, I was wondering about when you were talking about reinforcing the panel from side to side? Do you also reinforce top to bottom? For example, say you had a large rectangular panel. I know I've heard you don't want the panel to buckle, so I wasn't sure if your reinforce both ways. I've been trying to learn about reinforcing too. I've never done it. Thanks to Christie and MIke too. I'm saving your advice to keep on reference. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 11:19:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCV8K-0000jja; Sun, 13 Oct 96 11:19 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: Stephanie Braman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610131819.OAA21098@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike, > Where >are you getting your frame stock? Or, do you supply it? (from your email >address, may I assume you are with Delphi). Looks as thought I've been found out. Yes, I am with Delphi and have been doing glass for 10+ yrs. We supply ready to use wood frames that are have rabbets that are deep enough for both the glass and the reed. They are manufactured by McNeil Woodworks. Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 11:30:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCVIZ-0000c8a; Sun, 13 Oct 96 11:30 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: Stephanie Braman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610131829.OAA22066@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Jerri, > I was wondering about when you were talking about reinforcing the >panel from side to side? Do you also reinforce top to bottom? For >example, say you had a large rectangular panel. I know I've heard you >don't want the panel to buckle, so I wasn't sure if your reinforce both >ways. I've been trying to learn about reinforcing too. I've never done >it. It's possible to reinforce either horizontally or vertically. Generally it's the shortest path, and I definitely agree with Mike to do so approximately every 18". In Karl's example of a 27" square, he can go either direction. If I were to use the external reinforcing bar, I would probably install is horizontally to help support the weight of the glass. Months ago, I read another tip in the "Stained Glass News" that suggests if you are using the Adjustable "U" channel, that has a hollow portion, to insert a dowel into this openning on the bottom piece to help support the glass before soldering it into place. The idea behind this is to keep the glass from forcing its way through the channel into the hollow area and again, keep the piece from buckling. I'm sure that there are others in our group who have their own methods of reinforcement and I for one would be very interested in hearing from them as well. Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 14:23:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCXzc-0000mxa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 14:22 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 17:17:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct13.131748.0> References: <<199610122144.RAA25617@moltar.cetlink.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk KARL L. PREISACH wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > I am starting my first project of any size and could use some advice > as to it's construction. The finished size is 27" square. Looks to contain > app. 100 to 125 pieces. It is a copper foiled panel,and I plan to frame it > when done. As to questions; > 1) Should the panel be reinforced? If so, with rods or that flat > flexible stuff on a roll that goes between the pieces? > 2) If I use the flat stuff, does it go around every piece or just in > some areas? > 3) As to framing; should I use the "U" shaped framing stock or is > standard framing with glazier points strong enough? > 4) The panel will be hung on a white painted wall with two recessed > "eyeball" ceiling spotlights shining on it. Should there be any > consideration made as to glass color? That is, should I use relatively > light colored glass so that the light reflects off the wall or does it > matter? > 5) What would be the best way to hang it? A small cable like a > conventional picture or a chain that would be visible? > I realize that this a lot if information to ask, but I know of no > better source. > Many TIA > Karl > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass 1 & 2. it all depends on what the panel look s like, to know if you should reinforce. that newish reinforcing tape works pretty well. round bar, although strong, you may see from the front. that flat kind (i would choose brass) does'nt have to go over every piece just the flexible ones. but it's hard to work with because of all the bends, and then it's difficult to frame. 3. it all depends on what look your going for, as to what framing method should be used. i would first border it with 1/2" zinc border came, and then go with a hard wood fram of some kind. even if you were going to put it in an exterior wall, i probably would'nt glaze it (or at least not with points, just not stong enough) instead i would fram wood around it and sandwhich it in. 4. choosing color is up to you, and what the pattern is. these are my suggestions: choose opal's and light clear colors, the white behind it will show through. since your going to have reflected light as well, put in textured glass, that faces you not the wall. also irridesents may look good in the panel. 5. to hang: cable may not be strong enough (or at least the contacts won't be) it all depends on how heavy it is. if you choose a zinc (or simaler) border, make two hooks by using two old keychain rings, tin them and solder them in the two top corners. just be sure to solder them on both the top and side cames. another method would be to use a frame like a painting has, or if you use a hard wood frame, try using sash chain to hang it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 14:49:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCYPG-0000s1a; Sun, 13 Oct 96 14:49 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Soldering Irons Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 17:44:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct13.134421.0> References: <<1996Oct12.13535.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Phil Taylor wrote: > > Hi, I would like some info on soldering irons. I've been using an > older Weller 100, put a new 1/4" No.7 tip on about 6 months ago and two > days ago the tip became corroded, won't hold solder. The iron also > heats inconsistently, sometimes causing the iron tip, solder and lead > joint to all become One; it takes 2 to 3 seconds for the iron to heat > enough to disengage the above. > I'm thinking I need a new iron. Agree? > Do I need different irons or tips for lead than for copper foil? > Is there a place to mail order a Weller 100 at a reasonable price? > Do you recommend another brand of iron? If so, which brand and what are > the advantages? Please respond to: chip3@montana.com -- Thanks, T. i've used weller's before, they make good irons, so does hexacon (though a bit heavy). as long as you have a reostat it does'nt make much difference which iron you choose (as long as it's hot enough). have you tried tinning the tip with a sal amoniac block? that's usally one of the first things done on an iron, (it works suppringly well). but tips do burn out. basically the irons i've used are these: 1. UNGAR - with screw on heater unit. CONS: expensive, if the tip burns out but not the heater you'll need a new heater unit. the other type with the screw on heaters (the kind with the changable tips, don't get hot enough. PROS: very light weight, heats up in under a minute, cools down in around five. cord is flexible. and the handle stays completly cool. 2. HEXACON - i have several very large ones, 300w and a 550w. CONS: (at least mine anyway) are very heavy to hold. the 550w for example has a 1" dia tip, it takes 15-20 mins just to heat up and over an hour or more to cool. other's i've used (the type with the wood handle.) this type also has steam vents, and i've burned my self more than once on these. also the handles tend to get on the warm side. PROS: it has alot of 'torque' if you will, it stays hot under quite a bit of abuse. 3. INLAND - i had the one with the tips that went on with a collet. CONS: the first one i had, the collet corroded away. the cord has a mind of it's own, it's very thick, and moves the iron in the holder (and the holder is the big kind too). PROS: you can get a nice small tip for it cheaply (unlike unger which even if they had a smaller tip you would have to fork out another $40 to get it.) the handle stays pretty cool. 4. WELLER - i've had used ones, never really new ones. (i don't think anyway) CONS: i found the tips are harder to remove, alot come with a little set screw that corrodes to nothing in a little while. the tip tends to lock it self in barrel, and if you twist the bit to remove it, a burr might occur, and it may never come out. PROS: it's a good iron for the money, they may have improved it since i had one. it's light waeight and easy to use. it's a good beginners iron. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 14:53:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCYTU-0000sLa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 14:53 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Copper came Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 17:48:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct13.134842.0> References: <<1996Oct12.135614.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Phil Taylor wrote: > > I'm looking for any advice on soldering copper came. I incoporated some > in a leaded piece and had a battle trying to do it justice. Either the > solder wouldn't stick, or the glob of solder looked like I was > practicing, a novice (though I'm relatively new at this). In other > words, the copper came joints were a real mess after I tried to solder > them. I cleaned the copper well with 0000 steel wool before assembling > the pieces into the leaded piece. I used a regular amount of flux, but > the copper seemed to "wick" away so much heat from the iron that I > couldn't get a decent joint. Any advice? Please respond to: > chip3@montana.com -- Thanks, T. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, the came might have a clear coat on it, try using a solvent to clean it. try using a courser steel wool or a small clean wire brush. put more flux on, the worst that can happen is splattering. the iron might not be hot enough. or you can experiment on a seperate project for this one. try putting flux on the joint, apply heat to the joint put more flux on, then solder it. maybe a paste flux will work better. or once the solder it on the joint (regardless of how bad it looks), apply more flux, then let the iron sit there on the joint for a few seconds, and let the joint absorb the solder. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 13 15:00:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCYa2-0000pxa; Sun, 13 Oct 96 15:00 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Wierd glass rod lamp advice Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 17:55:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct13.135529.0> References: <<1996Oct13.143549.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie A. Wood wrote: > > Hi all. I need some advice on a possible work I might be doing (how's that for > being non-committal?). > > An artist friend and I are trying to design a unique lamp/sculpture. The base > is to be one of those very large champagne bottles (Nebukinezer, Jerhebohim, > sorry about the terrible spelling). And out of this bottle the champagne is > supposed to be spewing and bubbling, with the cork at the top of the whole > thing. > > We want to make the "spewing champagne" out of something that transmits light > and looks like champagne and won't look bad after a decade or two. We were > thinking bent glass rods and optic fibers combined with clear glass nuggets. > The "cork" at the top could have a light bulb hidden in it to shine light down > through the "champagne", as well as the bottle having a light bulb in it to > provide light from the bottom up. This objective requires hiding the wires up > to the light bulb in the "cork", possibly through a hollow glass rod. > > Any thoughts on this? Ever seen anything remotely like it? Any comments will > be greatly appreciated. > > ...Christie > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well i'm having a hard time picturing it, but i sort of see an image in my head. if you go the way of using flat glass, try using a wickedly bubbly piece of pink cathedral. also you could try using Youg. white stipple (looks like fresca) that should desperse the light enout to hide wires. if your going to go with fiber optics (which should work) another idea might be to use white LED's and use a this wire. or even to hide the wires, if you going to have an edge anywhere (foiled) carefull attach or solder a small tube to conceal the wires...anyway it's food for thought. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 04:55:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vClc3-0000zma; Mon, 14 Oct 96 04:55 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 07:52:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct14.35244.0> References: <<1996Oct13.154819.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Just curious on your coment regarding a wooden reed. Do you mean that it > borders the U came somehow. What is it? A thin strip of wood? How thick? > > More details please, > > Mike Peck > I get my reed from caning suppliers. (The ones that do caning chairs) It comes in a variety of sizes and thicknesses. This is helpful if you are doing something that is not the standard size that McNeil makes, and most stained glass suppliers will not sell just the reed, because they have only enough to supply with their frames. However to get it shipped, I had to buy a quantity of it, and it will last me many years! Hopefully you can find someone locally. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 05:50:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCmSz-0000CHa; Mon, 14 Oct 96 05:49 PDT X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Caution Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 08:44:36 EDT Message-ID: <961014.084847.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Well, after 10 years or so of making stained glass, I finally did it. In a moment of inattention, my soldering iron slipped in my right hand and I automatically grabbed for it with my left hand. Fortunately, the burns are minor. I feel rather stupid, but thought I ought to remind all of us that lead's not the only danger! Also had to finally replace my ancient Glastar grinder this past week, too. Three bandaged fingers and still foiling... -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 05:51:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCmUf-0000Lpa; Mon, 14 Oct 96 05:51 PDT X-Path: falcon.cc.ukans.edu!elgarber From: elgarber@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Ellen Garber) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: WC problems Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 07:51:39 -0500 Message-ID: <9610141251.AA02201@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have ordered from Warner C for a number of years and have never had any problems. They are a good deal slower than Delphi, but they are less money. I was impressed with the very personal attention I received from Delphi and do order from them more now, even though it is more costly. I can usually get exactly what I want in glass, whereas from Warner C its a guessing game. Ellen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 06:26:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCn20-0000F5a; Mon, 14 Oct 96 06:26 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Caution Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:21:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct14.52116.0> References: <<961014.084847.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > Well, after 10 years or so of making stained glass, I finally did it. > In a moment of inattention, my soldering iron slipped in my right hand > and I automatically grabbed for it with my left hand. Fortunately, the > burns are minor. I feel rather stupid, but thought I ought to remind > all of us that lead's not the only danger! > Also had to finally replace my ancient Glastar grinder this past week, too. > > Three bandaged fingers and still foiling... > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i did something simaler once only i was'nt looking and grabbed the wrong end. or of course the time i dripped molten solder in my hand...that was fun ;). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 07:42:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCoDl-0000oIa; Mon, 14 Oct 96 07:42 PDT X-Path: sympatico.ca!taylor_buckner From: "H. Taylor Buckner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: First large Panel Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:41:58 -0400 Message-ID: <199610141441.KAA22900@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Karl, If you plan to frame your project in zinc "U" channel and hang it like that, you might think about inserting some strong braided picture wire into the hollow portion of the sides and around the bottom of your frame. Drill a tiny hole in each corner of the top section and pull the braided wire out through these holes before soldering the corner joints. Once the joints are soldered, pull the wire tight and form the ends into small rings or loops for chain or whatever you choose to hang the panel with. This method gives the whole panel support constantly but obviously should be used in conjunction with reinforcing wire throughout the glass. Jennifer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 08:33:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCp0z-0000ola; Mon, 14 Oct 96 08:33 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!knowitall From: Roseanne Campbell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: mosaics Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 15:33:05 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct14.15335.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Does anyone make the mosaic stepping stones as in Tiffany Gardens? What, if anything, so you put on them to preserve them-i. e. make them more weather resistant? I have made several and hesitate to spray them with something that will change their color or the affect the glass. Also, does anyone have any idea where to get some nice patterns for mosaics other than stepping stones? I don't like them to look like miscellaneous shards of glass-I cut out a stained glass picture and set it in cement-any new ideas,techniques or books would be appreciated. Thanks, Roseanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 08:41:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCp8A-0000W8a; Mon, 14 Oct 96 08:40 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Mainly for Albert - lead sources Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:13:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199610141538.QAA21743@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sorry Albert, :-( Better late than never.... Promised you Stilleman's address etc absolutely ages ago. Hadn't forgotten. Here goes: Stillemans S.A. Rue Jean Tieboutstraat 1730 ASSE (Zellik) Belgium Tel: +00-32-2-4660466 Fax: +00-32-2-4666352 telex: 2577 STIPLO B Best Regards Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 08:50:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCpHj-00011ba; Mon, 14 Oct 96 08:50 PDT X-Path: sprynet.com!labette From: Laura Bettingen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Safety Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 08:28:51 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct14.12851.0> References: <<1996Oct14.52116.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This must be the season for accidental burns. I just burned the entire first joint on my index finger -- but on a glue gun. It was jammed up and when it unjammed a glob of glue burst forth and jumped about six inches to my other hand. It happens, I guess, but I have renewed my resolve to keep a bowl of ice water next to my work area when I am soldering glue bunning, etc. Hope you all do too. Dorothy -- watch out for secondary infection, which can be common for severe burns. Hope you heal soon. Laura Bettingen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 12:35:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCsn1-0000fna; Mon, 14 Oct 96 12:35 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Dalle de verre Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 19:34:55 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct14.193455.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Anyone familiar with slab glass? We have done some small jobs using dalles, but have an opportunity to bid on a small commercial job and wonder if there is a good "per sq ft" type estimate that we can guage our figures on. Basically, we are looking at COGS + Labor + Profit Margin, but wonder if we're in the ballpark, low, high, etc. Any input appreciated. Thanks Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 12:38:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCsos-00014ja; Mon, 14 Oct 96 12:36 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Take a Break Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 15:41:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct14.84141.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk STAINED GLASS STAINED GLASS WINDOWS SPARKLE AND SHINE BROKEN PIECES ENTWINED DARKEN COLORS THROUGH WHICH LIGHT SHINES A PEACEFUL GLOW CATCHING THE SUNSHINE SENDING THE BEAMS DEEP WITHIN MY SOUL BEAUTY TO BRING HOPE TO RENEW WARMING MY THOUGHTS WHILE I SIT IN THE STILL CAUGHT IN A MYSTICAL SPELL CARRIED AWAY SURROUNDED BY THE WARMTH IN THE REFLECTIONS OF THE DAY COLORS FADING AWAY AS THE SUN SLOWLY SLIPS BEHIND THE CLOUDS JUST AS MY LIFE CHANGES FROM BLUE TO GRAY J. MOORE ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 12:58:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCt9S-00015ca; Mon, 14 Oct 96 12:58 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: mosaics Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 19:54:46 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct14.195446.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 03:33 PM 10/14/96 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, > >Does anyone make the mosaic stepping stones as in Tiffany Gardens? What, if >anything, so you put on them to preserve them-i. e. make them more weather >resistant? We use Thompson's Waterseal, doesn't change any colors, repels water just fine. Be sure to dig a hole about 8-10 inches deep where you want to put the stone, then fill it with medium size gravel and put your stone on top. This will provide some drainage so the stone is not in standing water. Take it in during freezing weather. I know the book says it's not necessary, but I am not optimistic that they will survive freeze/thaw for many years. Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 13:53:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCu0z-00014ja; Mon, 14 Oct 96 13:53 PDT X-Path: cetlink.net!karlp From: "KARL L. PREISACH" To: Subject: April's Posting Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:48:37 -0400 Message-ID: <199610142053.QAA13955@moltar.cetlink.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April, Thanks so much for sharing that with us. What a lovely thought! Karl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 14:30:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCuaE-00012Ua; Mon, 14 Oct 96 14:29 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: glass bottle lamp thing Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:25:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct14.13257.0> References: <<199610142053.QAA13955@moltar.cetlink.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk i forget who posted that bottle overflowing thing, but i have another idea. what if you were to find an oil or something that bubbles in heat. what you do is: fill the bottle with the liquid, and put a lamp under the bottle (like a lava lamp). then if you can, make the overflow a sandcarving. and be sure the overflow piece fits in the neck of the bottle. then when the light heats up it will make the fluid bubble, and light up the top, using the bottle like a fiber optic. ---Mike Savad Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 17:35:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vCxT7-0000qIa; Mon, 14 Oct 96 17:34 PDT X-Path: sympatico.ca!taylor_buckner From: "H. Taylor Buckner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: mosaics Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:34:23 -0400 Message-ID: <199610150034.UAA21475@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Roseanne You'll find a number of interesting mosaic patterns for floors,jewellery,tabletops etc. in a book called "The MOSAIC BOOK Ideas, Projects and Techniques" by Peggy Vance & Celia Goodrick-Clarke, published by Conran Octopus Ltd. It can be ordered from Delphi. Jennifer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 21:20:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD0yW-00018La; Mon, 14 Oct 96 21:19 PDT X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: WC problems Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:56:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct14.145634.0> References: <<9610141251.AA02201@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Ellen Garber wrote: > > I have ordered from Warner C for a number of years and have never had any > problems. They are a good deal slower than Delphi, but they are less money. > I was impressed with the very personal attention I received from Delphi and > do order from them more now, even though it is more costly. I can usually > get exactly what I want in glass, whereas from Warner C its a guessing game. > Ellen > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi Ellen, If you order within a short period of time after Delphi issues a new catalog, you can get 25% off any item in the catalog (except the start-up kit) when you use the enclosed coupon. Then the price drops down into the neighborhood of Warner-Crivellaro's, and you can still have that wonderful service that makes Delphi so nice to deal with. T. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 21:25:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD133-0000vka; Mon, 14 Oct 96 21:24 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Soldering Irons Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:24:05 -0700 Message-ID: <199610150424.VAA26938@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Hi, I would like some info on soldering irons. I've been using an >older Weller 100, put a new 1/4" No.7 tip on about 6 months ago and two >days ago the tip became corroded, won't hold solder. Sounds as if you are not tinning your iron. Tinning and cleaning need to be an ongoing process. At this point you may need to clean your tip with a little more vigor than usual. Try course steel wool to clean, then re tin by alternatly fluxing and applying solder to the hot tip. If this proves to solve your problem you will need to clean and tin your iron on a regular basis. Keep it shiny. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 21:28:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD165-0000mqa; Mon, 14 Oct 96 21:27 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Copper came Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:27:09 -0700 Message-ID: <199610150427.VAA19153@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >I'm looking for any advice on soldering copper came. Either the >solder wouldn't stick, or the glob of solder looked like I was >practicing, a novice (though I'm relatively new at this). I cleaned the copper well with 0000 steel wool before assembling >the pieces into the leaded piece. I used a regular amount of flux, but >the copper seemed to "wick" away so much heat from the iron that I >couldn't get a decent joint. You need to tin the copper prior to soldering it. It is also possible that you may need to use a different flux. flux for lead and flux for zinc/copper et.al. is different. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 21:38:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD1FX-0000Qra; Mon, 14 Oct 96 21:37 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:36:56 -0700 Message-ID: <199610150436.VAA27859@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Hi Jerri, > >> > > > >Months ago, I read another tip in the "Stained Glass News" that suggests if >you are using the Adjustable "U" channel, that has a hollow portion, to >insert a dowel into this openning on the bottom piece to help support the >glass before soldering it into place. The idea behind this is to keep the >glass from forcing its way through the channel into the hollow area and >again, keep the piece from buckling. > > This is a very good point. I have seen many a window in zinc came where every piece on the bottom has fallen in to the hollow of the came. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 14 21:46:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD1Mz-0000XLa; Mon, 14 Oct 96 21:44 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:44:37 -0700 Message-ID: <199610150444.VAA18041@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >KARL L. PREISACH wrote: >> >> >> 5) What would be the best way to hang it? A small cable like a >> conventional picture or a chain that would be visible? >> I realize that this a lot if information to ask, but I know of no >> > >5. to hang: cable may not be strong enough (or at least the contacts >won't be) it all depends on how heavy it is. if you choose a zinc (or >simaler) border, make two hooks by using two old keychain rings, tin >them and solder them in the two top corners. just be sure to solder them >on both the top and side cames. > > another method would be to use a frame like a painting has, or if you >use a hard wood frame, try using sash chain to hang it. > >---Mike Savad > >-- I would avoid using rings soldered onto the perimeter chanels on a window this size. They are bound to fail. An alternate method is to run a galvanized re- bar along the top and 1/4 down the sides attached to the back of the panel. Solder these bars in as many spots as practical at exsisting joints but at least 4-6 places on a panel this size. drill holes in the corners and hang from the holes. This method helps to distribute the weight of the panel over more of the surface. ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 03:05:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD6Mh-0000zwa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 03:04 PDT X-Path: nethawk.com!1091 From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: soldering iron problem Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:09:57 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>Hi, I would like some info on soldering irons. I've been using an >>older Weller 100, put a new 1/4" No.7 tip on about 6 months ago and >>two I discovered last night that I have a problem at the other end of the tip. My number 8 tip, about 4 years old, has deteriorated at the end with the 8 stamped on it. Part of the end is gone and another part looks like it has been mashed in. I keep the other tips really well cleaned, etc. but am I supposed to be doing something to the other end? My other tip ends don't look like that. Why is this tip eroding away? Is it safe to use? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Sue 1091@nethawk.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 04:37:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD7oM-0000Vxa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 04:37 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: mosaics Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:34:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct15.33454.0> References: <<1996Oct14.195446.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mike peck wrote: > > At 03:33 PM 10/14/96 +0000, you wrote: > >Hi, > > > >Does anyone make the mosaic stepping stones as in Tiffany Gardens? What, if > >anything, so you put on them to preserve them-i. e. make them more weather > >resistant? > > We use Thompson's Waterseal, doesn't change any colors, repels water just > fine. Be sure to dig a hole about 8-10 inches deep where you want to put > the stone, then fill it with medium size gravel and put your stone on top. > This will provide some drainage so the stone is not in standing water. Take > it in during freezing weather. I know the book says it's not necessary, but > I am not optimistic that they will survive freeze/thaw for many years. > Last winter, several people from Michigan and Wisconsin or Montana commented that their stones held up just fine in up to -30 degrees F weather. I'd say that should be good enough for most of us in the rest of the US as a test. Garden of Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 05:42:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD8oY-0000vca; Tue, 15 Oct 96 05:41 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:36:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct15.43649.0> References: <<199610150444.VAA18041@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Michael Smoucha wrote: > > You wrote: > > > >KARL L. PREISACH wrote: > >> > >> > >> 5) What would be the best way to hang it? A small cable like a > >> conventional picture or a chain that would be visible? > >> I realize that this a lot if information to ask, but I know of > no > >> > > > >5. to hang: cable may not be strong enough (or at least the contacts > >won't be) it all depends on how heavy it is. if you choose a zinc (or > >simaler) border, make two hooks by using two old keychain rings, tin > >them and solder them in the two top corners. just be sure to solder > them > >on both the top and side cames. > > > > another method would be to use a frame like a painting has, or if > you > >use a hard wood frame, try using sash chain to hang it. > > > >---Mike Savad > > > >-- I would avoid using rings soldered onto the perimeter chanels on a > window this size. They are bound to fail. An alternate method is to run > a galvanized re- bar along the top and 1/4 down the sides attached to > the back of the panel. Solder these bars in as many spots as practical > at exsisting joints but at least 4-6 places on a panel this size. > drill holes in the corners and hang from the holes. This method helps > to distribute the weight of the panel over more of the surface. > > ms > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass welp, my method is best used for lighter panels, nothing larger than 16x20". now i thought that solder does'nt stick to galvanized metal. how do you get the solder to stick to it? in time galvanic action will occur causing it to seperate from the solder. brass rebar i can see. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 05:43:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD8q5-0000SFa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 05:43 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:38:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct15.43822.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sue Eiszler wrote: > > >>Hi, I would like some info on soldering irons. I've been using an > >>older Weller 100, put a new 1/4" No.7 tip on about 6 months ago and > >>two > > I discovered last night that I have a problem at the other end of the tip. > My number 8 tip, about 4 years old, has deteriorated at the end with the 8 > stamped on it. Part of the end is gone and another part looks like it has > been mashed in. I keep the other tips really well cleaned, etc. but am I > supposed to be doing something to the other end? My other tip ends don't > look like that. Why is this tip eroding away? Is it safe to use? Thanks > in advance for any suggestions. > > Sue > 1091@nethawk.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it may just be time for a new tip, 4 yeears a pretty long time for a tip to last, mine last only about a year (though i do use it quite often). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 05:46:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD8sk-0000kua; Tue, 15 Oct 96 05:46 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: hinges Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:41:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct15.44112.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk i'd like to know from anyone who knows (or the people that tun catalogs), i need hinges. the hinges i need have to be brass and a 1/4" wide. the only place i've seen them (and it's an old catalog) is WC but i have to pay the 5 bucks, etc, etc. does anyone know if Delphi carries those type's of higes? i'd be buying in bulk definetly at least a gross (depending on cost). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 06:13:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD9Ik-0000fsa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 06:12 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!104344.622 From: "Christie A. Wood" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM> To: "\"M. Savad\"" Subject: Re: glass bottle lamp thing Date: 15 Oct 96 09:08:04 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct15.1384.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike; I'm the person with the wierd glass bottle lamp thing. Thanks so much for your suggestions! I hadn't thought of the "lava lamp" type design, but it just might work. Thanks to everyone for the comments and suggestions. ...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 06:14:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD9K5-0000ZPa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 06:14 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!104344.622 From: "Christie A. Wood" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM> To: Stephanie Braman Subject: Re: Silicone removal Date: 15 Oct 96 09:08:05 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct15.1385.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone know of an easy and (hopefully) quick way to remove GE Silicone Gel from glass? It sure likes to bond with the glass! ...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 06:17:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD9Ma-0000sMa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 06:16 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: hinges Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:16:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610151316.JAA06001@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike, >does anyone know if Delphi carries >those type's of higes? i'd be buying in bulk definetly at least a gross >(depending on cost). We don't carry this type of hinge. We have the small bent nail and tube version, and also the separate hinge tube and rod. To purchase hinges of this nature, I'm sure that you could find them either at a local hardware or I've seen many woodworking catalogs which contain all sort of small findings like hinges, great hangers for frames and the like. Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 06:42:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD9ke-0000rLa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 06:41 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610151341.JAA09900@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hey Sue! >I discovered last night that I have a problem at the other end of the tip. >My number 8 tip, about 4 years old, has deteriorated at the end with the 8 >stamped on it. Part of the end is gone and another part looks like it has >been mashed in. I keep the other tips really well cleaned, etc. but am I >supposed to be doing something to the other end? My other tip ends don't >look like that. Why is this tip eroding away? Is it safe to use? Thanks >in advance for any suggestions. The tips erode inside the barrel because flux fumes do rise and enter the barrel and will corrode both the threading of the collar holding the tip in place and inside the barrel. I strongly recommend that after using an iron, unplug it and let cool down. When cool, go back and loosen the collar (nut, screw, etc) so that you keep the threaded portion operational. If this isn't done, then over time, the metals will become "bonded" together and there is nothing you can do replace the tip, short of purchasing a new iron. Also, I would suggest that you use an antifreeze compound just for the threads as this will further protect these joints and make it to screw and unscrew these parts *and* can help protect them from flux fumes. I'm still using the same Weller 100, which is 10 years old, and looks very battle worn, especially the cord which has only been melted a couple of times and has been carefully bandaged with electrical tape. For longevity of your soldering iron tip, Weller has tips for caring for the soldering iron tips. *Remove tip and clean with suitable cleaner for flux used. The frequency of cleaning will depend on the type of work and usage. Tips in constant use should be cleaned at least once a week. *Don't try to clean tip with abrasive materials and never file tip, to do so will greatly reduce tip life. *Don't remove excess solder from heated tip before storing. The excess solder will prevent oxidation of the wettable surface when tip is reheated. *Don't use anti-seize compounds on tips, they have been plated for oxidation protection. Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 06:53:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vD9vQ-0000x1a; Tue, 15 Oct 96 06:52 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silicone removal Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:52:44 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct15.135244.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 01:08 PM 10/15/96 +0000, you wrote: >Does anyone know of an easy and (hopefully) quick way to remove GE Silicone Gel >from glass? It sure likes to bond with the glass! >...Christie > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Try straight ammonia. We sandblasted a cabinet door panel with a light frosting background, then got sloppy with the silicon caulk when putting it in the door frame. Ammonia straight out of the bottle took the caulk off the sandblasted surface just fine. But, keep the ammonia off any finished wood surface ........... unfortunately we found that out the hard way! Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 07:39:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDAe7-00010pa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 07:39 PDT X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silicone removal Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:38:59 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: Silicone removal" on Oct 15, 9:08, "Christie A. Wood" writes:] > Does anyone know of an easy and (hopefully) quick way to remove GE Silicone Gel > from glass? It sure likes to bond with the glass! Hi Christie, Try take a razor blade (in a holder) and gently scrape.....it should come off with ease if your glass is a smooth texture. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 08:08:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDB5M-0000zoa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 08:07 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silicone removal Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610151506.LAA23259@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike, >Try straight ammonia. We sandblasted a cabinet door panel with a light >frosting background, then got sloppy with the silicon caulk when putting it >in the door frame. Ammonia straight out of the bottle took the caulk off >the sandblasted surface just fine. But, keep the ammonia off any finished >wood surface ........... unfortunately we found that out the hard way! Great tip! And to think all these years, I've just been using a razor blade and and some elbow grease. Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 08:10:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDB7B-00018La; Tue, 15 Oct 96 08:09 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Michael Smoucha Subject: Re: Copper came Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Oct15.1519.0> References: <<199610150427.VAA19153@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Michael. You say the flux for lead is different than for zinc and copper? Would you tell us more. What flux do you use for zinc and copper? Thanks, PJ from CA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 08:15:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDBCM-00010Ra; Tue, 15 Oct 96 08:14 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: "M. Savad" Subject: Re: hinges Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Oct15.11040.0> References: <<1996Oct15.44112.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Mike: You asked where to get hinges. I see brass hinges at art and craft stores all the time. We have a chain store, Artlandish, that carries the little brass hinges. Good Luck. PJ from CA. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 09:27:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDCKK-00012ca; Tue, 15 Oct 96 09:26 PDT X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silicone removal Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 09:26:19 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1996Oct15.1385.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > Does anyone know of an easy and (hopefully) quick way to remove GE Silicone > Gel from glass? It sure likes to bond with the glass! > ...Christie from my use of this on aquariums, i can say that there isn't anything that will dissolve it off of anything once it has cured. about the only thing you can do is use a straightedge razor blade to scrape it off. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 09:53:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDCjx-00016Ra; Tue, 15 Oct 96 09:53 PDT X-Path: snowcrest.net!beermug From: beermug@snowcrest.net (Paul Deutsch) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: hinges Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:53:07 -0700 Message-ID: <199610151653.JAA27690@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike-If you can't find hinges in your area, try contacting J. Floyd at: Designers In Stained Glass Sparks, Nevada (702) 359-4527 Fax (702) 359-7288 I get mine from Joanne all the time, plus an assortment of other brass items. Happy hunting! Sherry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 11:21:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDE7A-00012Sa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 11:21 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silicone removal Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:17:17 -0500 Message-ID: <199610151817.NAA15380@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >from my use of this on aquariums, i can say that there isn't anything that >will dissolve it off of anything once it has cured. about the only thing you >can do is use a straightedge razor blade to scrape it off. > >--- >Charles Spitzer > I've had success using Acetone on cured silicone, it does brake it down enough so you can rub it off unsmooth glass. I will check out ammonia next time, it would be great if it works as advertised! I've never tried to remove uncured silicone because of the smear factor. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 11:33:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDEIH-00013La; Tue, 15 Oct 96 11:32 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: Virus Notice] Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:28:54 -0500 Message-ID: <199610151828.NAA15510@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Can this really happen???? Or just another hoax? Sorry about the bandwidth. Len >>SUBJECT: New and Dangerous 'E-mail' Virus For your information... >>>>> >>>>> Please pass on this information to your colleagues. >>>>> >>>>> There is a computer virus that is being sent across the >>Internet. >>If >>>>> you receive an email message with the subject line "Good Times", DO >>>>> NOT read the message, DELETE it immediately. Please read the messages >>>>> below. Some miscreant is sending email under the title >>>>> "Good Times" nationwide, if you get anything like this, DON'T DOWNLOAD >>>>> THE FILE! It has a virus that rewrites your hard drive, obliterating >>>>> anything on it. Please be careful and forward this mail to anyone you >>>>> care about. >>>>> >>>>> The FCC released a warning last Wednesday concerning a matter of >>>>> major importance to any regular user of the Internet. Apparently a new >>>>> computer virus has been engineered by a user of AMERICA ON LINE that is >>>>> unparalleled in its destructive capability. Other more well-known >>>>> viruses such as "Stoned", "Airwolf" and "Michaelangelo" pale in >>>>> comparison to the prospects of this newest creation by a warped >>>>> mentality. What makes this virus so terrifying, said the FCC, is the >>>>> fact that no program needs to be exchanged for a new computer to be >>>>> infected. It can be spread through the existing email systems of the >>>>> Internet. >>>>> >>>>> Once a Computer is infected, one of several things can happen. >>If >>>>> the >>>>> computer contains a hard drive, that will most likely be >>>>> destroyed. If the program is not stopped, the computer's processor >>>>> will be placed in an nth-complexity infinite binary loop-which can >>>>> severely damage the processor if left running that way too long. >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately, most novice computer users will not realize what >>is >>>>> happening until it is far too late. Luckily, there is one sure means >>>>> of detecting what is now known as the "Good Times" virus. It always >>>>> travels to new computers the same way in a text email message with the >>>>> subject line reading "Good Times". Avoiding infection is easy once the >>>>> file has been received simply by NOT READING IT! The act of loading the >>>>> file into the mail server's ASCII buffer causes the "Good Times" >>>>> mainline program to initialize and execute. >>>>> >>>>> The program is highly intelligent- it will send copies of itself >>to >>>>> everyone whose email address is contained in a receive-mail file or >>>>> a sent-mail file, if it can find one. It will then proceed to trash the >>>>> computer it is running on. >>>>> >>>>> The bottom line is: - if you receive a file with the subject >>line >>>>> "Good Times", delete it immediately! Do not read it" Rest assured >>>>> that whoever's name was on the "From" line was surely struck by the >>>>> virus. Warn your friends and local system users of this newest threat >>>>> to the Internet! It could save them a lot of time and money. >>>>> >>>>> Could you pass this along to your global mailing list as well? >>>>> >> >><< end of forwarded material >> >> >> >> >> >Andrew Phillips >Secretary Senior >WSU Coop. Ext. Clallam County >223 East 4th Street >Port Angeles, WA 98362 >Off # (360) 417-2279 >Fax # (360) 417-2414 > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 12:20:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDF0y-0001CLa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 12:18 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: Virus Notice] Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 14:15:04 -0500 Message-ID: <199610151915.OAA16238@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 11:40 AM 10/15/96 -0700, Charles Spitzer wrote: >no. this is an urban legend and has been debunked years ago. i wish it would >not keep getting resurrected. Hi Charles, Sorry I started this, just the nervous naivete of a computer newbie. A response to the list of origin put it quite succinctly; Quote *The *virus* is the sending of the notice itself, the *damage* is the time it takes you to read the notice and try to figure it out and the time it takes for people like me to tell you it is a fake* I apologize for being a little too quick on the trigger Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 15:17:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDHnk-0000zka; Tue, 15 Oct 96 15:17 PDT X-Path: nethawk.com!1091 From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:22:35 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hey Stephanie, Thanks for the info. See you in a month at Delphi. Sue 1091@nethawk.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 15:55:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDIMI-0000Xma; Tue, 15 Oct 96 15:53 PDT X-Path: gte.net!leestat From: leestat To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: hinges Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:51:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct15.11513.0> References: <<1996Oct15.11040.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Lee Boe Precedence: bulk Hi all, Try the Glass Crafters Catalog-I saw some in there. Page 16 has both the 1/4" and 7/16 inch tiny hinges. 1-800-422-4552, 8 cents each in 100 quant. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 16:13:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDIee-0000SFa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 16:12 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silicone removal Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 19:07:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct15.15714.0> References: <<1996Oct15.1385.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie A. Wood wrote: > > Does anyone know of an easy and (hopefully) quick way to remove GE Silicone Gel > from glass? It sure likes to bond with the glass! > ...Christie > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass try scraping the silicone off with a new razor, then clean the glass with denatured alchohol. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 16:19:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDIlu-0000Iua; Tue, 15 Oct 96 16:19 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: Virus Notice] Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 19:14:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct15.151445.0> References: <<199610151828.NAA15510@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk len alcamo wrote: > > Can this really happen???? Or just another hoax? Sorry about the bandwidth. > > Len the Good Times virus is a hoax. it's just a e-mail chain letter, it does'nt do anything. the hare virus on the other hand is real and very bad. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 16:38:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDJ3r-00016za; Tue, 15 Oct 96 16:38 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silicone removal Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:10:48 +0000 Message-ID: <199610152336.AAA25708@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie Wrote, Does anyone know of an easy and (hopefully) quick way to remove GE Silicone Gel from glass? It sure likes to bond with the glass! Hi Christie, The surest way I know of is using a rzor blade and then to clean with white spirit. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 17:30:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDJro-000109a; Tue, 15 Oct 96 17:29 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!104344.622 From: "Christie A. Wood" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM> To: "bungi.com" Subject: Re: Silicon removal techniques Date: 15 Oct 96 20:25:27 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct16.02527.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Man! Everyone at bungi.com is quick on the uptake! Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Since the glass in question is smooth, I think I'll do the razor trick. I certainly appreciate everyone's quick replies. ...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 18:18:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDKcO-00014Qa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 18:17 PDT X-Path: usaor.net!madglass From: madglass@usaor.net (Mary Ann Dulemba) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: Virus Notice] Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:14:38 -0400 Message-ID: <199610160122.VAA00744@gate.usaor.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Okay - so I must have had my head in the ground. Someone care to inform me about the hare virus? >len alcamo wrote: >> >> Can this really happen???? Or just another hoax? Sorry about the bandwidth. >> >> Len > > >the Good Times virus is a hoax. it's just a e-mail chain letter, it >does'nt do anything. the hare virus on the other hand is real and very >bad. > >---Mike Savad > > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > -- Registered ICC User check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 18:37:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDKvF-00016Ea; Tue, 15 Oct 96 18:37 PDT X-Path: brinet.com!reflections From: "Kathy Sagy" To: Subject: Re: Fireplace Screens Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:34:10 -0600 Message-ID: <199610160140.VAA12547@bones.brinet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The fireplace screens in the "Stained Glass Basics" book are great, they are made by a couple of women who have a shop in Virginia. My husband made a screen a couple of yrs. ago for my parents, measured the opening and went to a fireplace shop to check on the size of the screen needed. Keep in mind that the ladies in VA are billing these screens as usuable, we will sell ours for beauty only, not to be used w/heat I don't think they will stand up to the heat. You may want to talk with Marti the feature artist in "Stained Glass Basics" she works out of "A Touch of Glass" in Asheville, NC, and by the way is an excellent instructor, t/p 704 258-2749. ---------- > From: Stephanie Braman > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Fireplace Screens > Date: Saturday, October 12, 1996 5:34 PM > > Lately, I have been receiving many inquiries about fireplace screens. Does > anyone have any idea what the standard dimensions of the 3 pieces would be? > There are several beautiful examples in a new book "Stained Glass Basics" by > Chris Rich with my personal favorite being a Victorian design done with > clear textures, teal blues and purples. I especially liked the creative use > of a bevel cluster in this design. Instead of the cluster being closely > grouped it has been spread out into the design in a "burst" type of pattern. > It's very lovely. > > Thanks for any assistance. > Stephanie > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 18:43:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDL17-000168a; Tue, 15 Oct 96 18:43 PDT X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 19:20:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct15.122039.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Sue Eiszler wrote: > > >>Hi, I would like some info on soldering irons. I've been using an > >>older Weller 100, put a new 1/4" No.7 tip on about 6 months ago and > >>two > > I discovered last night that I have a problem at the other end of the tip. > My number 8 tip, about 4 years old, has deteriorated at the end with the 8 > stamped on it. Part of the end is gone and another part looks like it has > been mashed in. I keep the other tips really well cleaned, etc. but am I > supposed to be doing something to the other end? My other tip ends don't > look like that. Why is this tip eroding away? Is it safe to use? Thanks > in advance for any suggestions. > > Sue > 1091@nethawk.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi Sue, Seems like the season for soldering iron questions. A No. 8 tip will achieve 800 degrees when heated, hotter than is needed for lead or foil soldering. Could be a couple things going on. Don't leave your iron on longer than you need to be using it. Also, sounds like maybe you should have the amount of electricity going to your iron checked. I've been told that a Weller needs full power, no more and no less, to work correctly. You didn't say what brand you're using, but am passing along what I know. Also, tips aren't made to last forever and yours may just be at the end of its usefulness. Contact the manufacturer, or there's a soldering iron company on the net that has a technical section for such questions. They've been most helpful to me even though their irons are designed for electrical soldering, on circuit boards and such. Good luck, T. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 15 19:29:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDLir-0000YQa; Tue, 15 Oct 96 19:28 PDT X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Jersey glass expo Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1996Oct15.182816.0> References: <<199610160140.VAA12547@bones.brinet.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk A while back Albert tempted us with a tease of a conference alleged to be coming at the end of this month to New Jersey. I eagerly called the number he included requested more details. Nothing. Does anybody have anything solid? Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 00:46:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDQfZ-0001Ana; Wed, 16 Oct 96 00:45 PDT X-Path: source.com.au!aking From: Andrea King To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Take a Break Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:39:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct15.15392.0> References: <<1996Oct14.84141.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April Paine wrote: > > STAINED GLASS > > Thanks for sharing hat April, just what I needed after an evening of classes. Andrea Melb, Aust ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 01:56:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDRlz-0000ZWa; Wed, 16 Oct 96 01:56 PDT X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:55:15 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <9610160855.AA12294@crosfield.co.uk> References: <<1996Oct15.122039.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > I discovered last night that I have a problem at the other end of the tip. > > My number 8 tip, about 4 years old, has deteriorated at the end with the 8 > > stamped on it. Part of the end is gone and another part looks like it has > > been mashed in. I keep the other tips really well cleaned, etc. but am I > > supposed to be doing something to the other end? My other tip ends don't > > look like that. Why is this tip eroding away? Is it safe to use? Thanks > > in advance for any suggestions. As far as I know, weller tips use a magnetically switched thermostat to control the temperature; I believe the back end of the tip (that goes into the iron) contains a compound/alloy or whatever that changes its magnetic characteristics at a particular temperature, and so switches the power off when the tip gets hot enough - if that's correct, then you may find that damage to the back could affect the temperature regulation, and you probably don't want it shedding bits inside the iron :-). -- _|_ Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) / | Hemel Hempstead, UK jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \_|_ jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) \__/ www.selune.demon.co.uk (soon) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 05:27:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDV3x-0001Bua; Wed, 16 Oct 96 05:27 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Jersey glass expo Date: 16 Oct 96 08:25:49 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct16.122549.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >A while back Albert tempted us with a tease of a conference alleged to be >coming at the end of this month to New Jersey. I eagerly called the number >he included requested more details. >Nothing. Mary I can't remember exactly where that info came from ... an inbound fax with info? Maybe. Anyway, it's being run by the following people; try them, unless it was them you tried to reach ... in which case, I'm at a loss. Shirley Harvey Las Vegas Management 2408 Chapman Drive Las Vegas NV 89104 3455 (800) 217-4527 1996-1997 ... the Glass Craft Conference at the Clarion Hotel in Mt. Laurel, NJ from October 31-November 4, 1996 then Glass Craft Expo '97 at Cashman Field Convention Center in Las Vegas, NV March 13-16, 1997. In New Jersey, the regional conference will offer an optional tour to Wheaton Village, a variety of stained glass and hot glass workshops presented by popular instructors, plus a product display area. Special events include a reception hosted by Joe Porcelli of Glass Craftsman magazine and a glass harmonica concert. In Las Vegas, a consumer show open to the public will feature more than 100 classes in all categories of art glass design, techniques, and marketing presented by well-known instructors from across the nation. A trade show open March 14-16 will feature new products and services, manufacturers' demonstrations and an art glass gallery. The show's primary objective is education, the secondary aim is for everyone to have fun and achieve success. If you missed it before, don't miss it this year. Albert __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Tonetta Lake Road *** Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 [msg] Fax: (914) 278-2481 __________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 08:26:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDXrb-00019ia; Wed, 16 Oct 96 08:26 PDT X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: I found a Glass Glue Recipe Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:27:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct16.72710.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just thought I'd share this with you. I found it at: http://www.dfc.com/scouts/craft059.htm for those of you with access. I haven't tried it yout but it sure sounds promising. Waterproof or Glass Glue 2 packets (1/2 ounce) unflavoured gelatin 2 tbls. cold water 3 tbls. skim milk several drops oil of cloves (optional) 1. In a small bowl, sprinkle gelatin over cold water. Set aside to soften. 2. Heat milk to boiling point and pour into softened gelatin. Stir until gelatin is dissolved. 3. Add oil of cloves as preservative if glue is to be kept for more than a day. Makes about 1/3 cup How to use it: While the glue is still warm, brush a thin layer on the objects to be glued. This is the best glue to use for projects in which glass must be adhered to glass. For gluing decorations on glass jars, it is best to use the glue in its liquid state. For gluing marbles together or gluing metal ornaments to metal cans, use the glue in its gelled state. This glue is waterproof and can be used to mend china, to glue labels on home-canned foods and jellies, or to glue wood to wood. Store glue in a screw-capped jar. It will gel as it cools, but this will not affect its adhesiveness. Set jar in a pan of hot water to soften glue for reuse. ___________ Hey, if it will glue marbles together it will do ANYYHING. Linda begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@P/`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &``@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```#T`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!G;&%S``,P`0```! ```!G;&%S M`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````$@```&QC8F5L;$!M96UA8V@N M8V]M`````P`&$ 5W2T8#``<0"00``!X`"! !````90```$I54U142$]51TA4 M24132$%2151(25-7251(64]5249/54Y$251!5#I(5%10.B\O5U=71$9#0T]- M+U-#3U544R]#4D%&5# U.4A4349/4E1(3U-%3T993U57251(04-#15-324@` M`````@$)$ $```!5! ``400``.\&``!,6D9U1/A&JO\`"@$/`A4"J 7K`H,` M4 +R"0(`8V@*P'-E=#(W!@`&PP*#,@/%`@!P)S=&5M`H,S=P+D!Q," M@'T*@ C/"=D[\18/,C4U`H *@0VQ"V#@;F0``20):$AL06Q M1PM@!!$_* `*4"9,)DP1X JP8VOC$< $("@Q+Q'@'8$BD&PI(!V0&.%V"&$C MP6?Z90M@= N *?<"42+!%8$M&^!W)S(*A3,M=7-KY0=P("70;&L*A1&P(S"K M(% #(&0#8' $(&\#$?TAL6,5H",P*N$Q$"S `B"U!T I)DPQ'3$#H&$;\(T` MP&P#( ;@=VPL&_#S$U +@&ML'$ LA2&@,)%_+=D=, 9@'>$`D VP&S!O/R4A M`8 )\!TP*8T=,$AE_QX`+[,WH@;@`Q F`260,5#_`C =\!VA.L ($/\G$!QP-5$;0#5A0J43 MP ,0DP,@+C!R;3308G(;`.\B41Q2`Z +8'DV(0(@25/X;V)J!9 JT4,40I(_ M#_Y4'')"XDEQ0T ;$4*32%7O(1(EH4RD-=%W'' 1<$*!S2@B;1L"0T%A9$EP M+$+W-[%1XQTP1@6Q0I$Z@@6#NRRQ`B!S"H5,$5'D:A&1_S30'=$<@4]S2%5) M:#XQ*M'].G!Q5$ ;X0&0$]!3RP# _G("8 >1-[ L@$EA2_%9R.\1P = 548$ MH&$'@ (P0O/_7 ,MT !Q--!7CRK1+($U4/]9%TZS0I8N,R=T.R)=\4,R=TB! M4R-=`60*A1%P"X!A_S304T-"L0M@0T MH$P"&U#]!X M7?$\4@(0!'!!01VA MOTR@-& (D%9Q(2)D57=F,?\WHF@".$X]($026 8T$04`\P?09:%P<"/!5D$= M,05 _P/P-&$L@4%2'=$%H ;P5G'G)'(<931A;F\=X0W03+'_6'-2P@"0(S$B MHS<25D$[H?\*A300"K UX2' &U!K\2H0H0A$A802($F-E]T:/E'/65Y M5H$AP!W1;!1"H@M:7W9V9#? 04Y96;!(24Y')CT*A4P+@!=$P J%%3$`>^ ` M```#`! 0``````,`$1 `````0 `',$!1VOIUN[L!0 `(,$!1VOIUN[L!'@`] /``$````!`````````#^Y ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 08:55:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDYJY-0000tta; Wed, 16 Oct 96 08:55 PDT X-Path: sympatico.ca!taylor_buckner From: "H. Taylor Buckner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Band Saw Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:55:00 -0400 Message-ID: <199610161555.LAA08803@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk After waiting almost four years, I finally bought a band saw last month. It's a Diamond Tech Laser 3000 and I'm really excited with the possibilities, but I'm getting pretty desperate about some difficulty I'm having with it. Every time I cut, the water (which I know is necessary) floods the glass and, since it contains glass powder, it covers the pattern line totally, preventing me from seeing where I'm cutting. I think I've spoiled more glass with the band saw than I ever did when I was first learning to cut by hand. I called the customer service rep. at the company, who was very obliging and gave me several suggestions (such as turning the top water feed off, and changing the sponge in the bottom reservoir to one with a coarser grain), but these really don't improve matters to a point where I want to cut more glass on the saw. Having spent a considerable sum of money on the saw, and having had my local retailer, who sold it to me, tell me that it wasn't returnable, I am, as you can understand, anxious to make a go of it. Does anyone on this list have a Laser 3000, and if so, do you have the same problem? How do you cope with it? Any constructive suggestions and advice would be appreciated. Jennifer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 10:20:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDZcG-0000ffa; Wed, 16 Oct 96 10:18 PDT X-Path: indy.net!jlaws From: "James R. Laws" To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: Newsgroup Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:17:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct16.71759.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Is there a stained glass newsgroup? How do I find it? Thanks. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 10:25:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDZhI-00012ca; Wed, 16 Oct 96 10:24 PDT X-Path: indy.net!jlaws From: "James R. Laws" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Band Saw Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:23:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct16.72312.0> References: <<199610161555.LAA08803@smtp1.sympatico.ca>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk H. Taylor Buckner wrote: > > After waiting almost four years, I finally bought a band saw last > month. It's a Diamond Tech Laser 3000 and I'm really excited with the > possibilities, but I'm getting pretty desperate about some difficulty I'm > having with it. Every time I cut, the water (which I know is necessary) > floods the glass and, since it contains glass powder, it covers the pattern > line totally, preventing me from seeing where I'm cutting. I think I've > spoiled more glass with the band saw than I ever did when I was first > learning to cut by hand. > I called the customer service rep. at the company, who was very > obliging and gave me several suggestions (such as turning the top water feed > off, and changing the sponge in the bottom reservoir to one with a coarser > grain), but these really don't improve matters to a point where I want to > cut more glass on the saw. > Having spent a considerable sum of money on the saw, and having had > my local retailer, who sold it to me, tell me that it wasn't returnable, I > am, as you can understand, anxious to make a go of it. Does anyone on this > list have a Laser 3000, and if so, do you have the same problem? How do you > cope with it? Any constructive suggestions and advice would be appreciated. > Jennifer > I would push the issue with the retailer. I bought the saw and returned it after three days. It was difficult to clean and nothing I did would keep the saw from flooding my work and my entire work bench. I bought a Taurus II ring saw and I love it. I also tried a Gripon band saw and liked it. Sorry if I offend anyone but the laser 3000 is garbage. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 10:48:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDa3W-0000wha; Wed, 16 Oct 96 10:46 PDT X-Path: mail.smu.edu!gshultz From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Newsgroup Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:46:10 -0600 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The Stained Glass Newsgroup is at rec.crafts.glass =Gary >Is there a stained glass newsgroup? How do I find it? Thanks. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~ ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~ ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665 Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~ ~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 11:16:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDaVn-000102a; Wed, 16 Oct 96 11:16 PDT X-Path: california.com!cmcmurdo From: Chris McMurdo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: How to repair foiled stained glass? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 14:30:52 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct11.143052.0> References: <<1996Oct10.6493.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: St. Rose Hospital Precedence: bulk Thanks, Mike, for that nice,concise, step-by-step procedure on repairing stained glass. I'm also new to stained glass and bungled my first attempt to repair a piece. Does anyone know of a good, comprehensive book on stained glass making, covering the basics and more advanced techniques? I've taken a basic class in stained glass, but other than taking more classes or learning through trial and error, it would be nice to have such a book to refer to. Chris McMurdo San Mateo, CA M. Savad wrote: > ok it's a little difficult to describe by typing, but i'll try. > > 1. clean the project off, just to get any gunk off. > > 2. score the broken piece like crazy, criss cross in a grid across the > piece. > > 3. tap on the back of the piece, with the ball, to crack out the lines. > > 4. carefully poke out the pieces with a needlenose pliers, be carefull > though you might bend the project. > > 5. try to remove as much of the glass as you can, though don't force any > of it out. > > 6. heat up your iron. > > 7. apply alot of flux to both sides of the project, where the outline of > the piece was. > > 8. melt the joint out with the iron, using the iron like a putty knife, > 'walk' the iron under the foil so it lifts away. becarefull in this > step, because you could cause the surrounding pieces to crack, the > opposite foil to lift out or rip. > > 9. continue doing this until all the old foil and glass is removed. it > might be difficult and smelly at first if the piece was patinaed. > > 10. reflux the opening, and melt out any execess solder, just be sure > the opening is smooth. > > 11. clean the project off, remove flux, dry, etc. then sweep off your > bench, you don't have to turn off your iron, unless the piece is going > to take a while to cut. > > 12. put your new glass under the project, trace the opening onto the > glass (so you have a tight fit later). > > 13. cut, grind (and be sure that it's going to fit), and foil the piece. > > 14. stick it in the opening, and solder as usual, the only tricky part > is that the piece will be lower, depending on the height of the solder > on the back of the project. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 11:25:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDaeG-0000tta; Wed, 16 Oct 96 11:24 PDT X-Path: VKM.COM!ABBES From: Steve Abbe To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Band Saw Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:12:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <1996Oct16.8120.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, <-- snip --> >Does anyone on this > list have a Laser 3000, and if so, do you have the same problem? How do you > cope with it? Any constructive suggestions and advice would be appreciated. > Jennifer I recently (6 monthes ago) got one of these saws. The first thing I did was remove the rubber stopper from the bottom water pan and attached a hose running to a bucket on the floor. (i used a combination of a plumbing fitting, silicone glue, and a rubber hose) This had the effect of keeping a lower water level in the water resevoir, but still keeping the sponge moist. and the blade wet. After standing a while (several days) the sponge dries out, but in that case I just pour a little water on the sponge first. Also, I don't turn the water bottle value on full, just about 1/2 way. Just enough to trickle a little on the blade. Using these two methods I don't have a problem with over abundance of water, nor do I have a problem with build up of glass dust on the glass being cut. Over all I am please with the saw. hope this helps Steve A. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 13:28:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDcYj-0000jpa; Wed, 16 Oct 96 13:27 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: How to repair foiled stained glass? Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610162027.QAA28977@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Chris, >Does anyone know of a good, comprehensive >book on stained glass making, covering the basics and more advanced >techniques? I've taken a basic class in stained glass, but other than >taking more classes or learning through trial and error, it would be >nice to have such a book to refer to. Two books come to mind. "Stained Glass Basics" by Chris Rich has very good instruction for both construction and repair along with some very beautiful and inspiring photos of stained glass works. Also, "Stained Glass Projects and Patterns" by George Shannon & Pat Torlen is a wonderful beginning book as it has many step-by-step photos of works in progress. Both are winners for anyone's stained glass library. Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 14:38:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDdeD-0000tZa; Wed, 16 Oct 96 14:37 PDT X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Stained Glass Reference Book Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:14:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct16.8144.0> References: <<1996Oct11.143052.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Chris McMurdo wrote: > > Thanks, Mike, for that nice,concise, step-by-step procedure on repairing > stained glass. I'm also new to stained glass and bungled my first > attempt to repair a piece. Does anyone know of a good, comprehensive > book on stained glass making, covering the basics and more advanced > techniques? I've taken a basic class in stained glass, but other than > taking more classes or learning through trial and error, it would be > nice to have such a book to refer to. > > Chris McMurdo > San Mateo, CA > > M. Savad wrote: > > > ok it's a little difficult to describe by typing, but i'll try. > > > > 1. clean the project off, just to get any gunk off. > > > > 2. score the broken piece like crazy, criss cross in a grid across the > > piece. > > > > 3. tap on the back of the piece, with the ball, to crack out the lines. > > > > 4. carefully poke out the pieces with a needlenose pliers, be carefull > > though you might bend the project. > > > > 5. try to remove as much of the glass as you can, though don't force any > > of it out. > > > > 6. heat up your iron. > > > > 7. apply alot of flux to both sides of the project, where the outline of > > the piece was. > > > > 8. melt the joint out with the iron, using the iron like a putty knife, > > 'walk' the iron under the foil so it lifts away. becarefull in this > > step, because you could cause the surrounding pieces to crack, the > > opposite foil to lift out or rip. > > > > 9. continue doing this until all the old foil and glass is removed. it > > might be difficult and smelly at first if the piece was patinaed. > > > > 10. reflux the opening, and melt out any execess solder, just be sure > > the opening is smooth. > > > > 11. clean the project off, remove flux, dry, etc. then sweep off your > > bench, you don't have to turn off your iron, unless the piece is going > > to take a while to cut. > > > > 12. put your new glass under the project, trace the opening onto the > > glass (so you have a tight fit later). > > > > 13. cut, grind (and be sure that it's going to fit), and foil the piece. > > > > 14. stick it in the opening, and solder as usual, the only tricky part > > is that the piece will be lower, depending on the height of the solder > > on the back of the project. > > > > ---Mike Savad > > > > -- > > Mike's Stained Glass > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi, It was passed along to me and I'll pass it along to you. No matter what level of stained glass work, the best shelf reference I've been told about (and have also purchased) is a book titled, Stained Glass Projects & Patterns, by George Shannon & Pat Torlen. It's well illustrated, good photos, lots of technical explanations, a must for any SG studio. Enjoy, T. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 14:45:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDdmD-00014Ma; Wed, 16 Oct 96 14:45 PDT X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Band Saw Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:22:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct16.82221.0> References: <<199610161555.LAA08803@smtp1.sympatico.ca>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk H. Taylor Buckner wrote: > > After waiting almost four years, I finally bought a band saw last > month. It's a Diamond Tech Laser 3000 and I'm really excited with the > possibilities, but I'm getting pretty desperate about some difficulty I'm > having with it. Every time I cut, the water (which I know is necessary) > floods the glass and, since it contains glass powder, it covers the pattern > line totally, preventing me from seeing where I'm cutting. I think I've > spoiled more glass with the band saw than I ever did when I was first > learning to cut by hand. > I called the customer service rep. at the company, who was very > obliging and gave me several suggestions (such as turning the top water feed > off, and changing the sponge in the bottom reservoir to one with a coarser > grain), but these really don't improve matters to a point where I want to > cut more glass on the saw. > Having spent a considerable sum of money on the saw, and having had > my local retailer, who sold it to me, tell me that it wasn't returnable, I > am, as you can understand, anxious to make a go of it. Does anyone on this > list have a Laser 3000, and if so, do you have the same problem? How do you > cope with it? Any constructive suggestions and advice would be appreciated. > Jennifer > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi Jennifer, I too have a band saw, about 1/4" blade. I don't put water in the top bottle at all. I merely put about 1/2" water in the bottom catch reservoir and placed a sponge diagonally in the reservoir (I cut a large sponge in half so that it's about 2-/12"X4") so that the sponge soaks up the water in the bottom yet is partially wedged against the saw blade. It works well for me, I don't get a lot of water on the working surface, just enough for the blade to do its job. Give this a try and let me know how it worked for you. Good luck, T. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 14:51:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDdra-0000WDa; Wed, 16 Oct 96 14:50 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Band Saw Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:45:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct16.134556.0> References: <<199610161555.LAA08803@smtp1.sympatico.ca>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk H. Taylor Buckner wrote: > > After waiting almost four years, I finally bought a band saw last > month. It's a Diamond Tech Laser 3000 and I'm really excited with the > possibilities, but I'm getting pretty desperate about some difficulty I'm > having with it. Every time I cut, the water (which I know is necessary) > floods the glass and, since it contains glass powder, it covers the pattern > line totally, preventing me from seeing where I'm cutting. I think I've > spoiled more glass with the band saw than I ever did when I was first > learning to cut by hand. > I called the customer service rep. at the company, who was very > obliging and gave me several suggestions (such as turning the top water feed > off, and changing the sponge in the bottom reservoir to one with a coarser > grain), but these really don't improve matters to a point where I want to > cut more glass on the saw. > Having spent a considerable sum of money on the saw, and having had > my local retailer, who sold it to me, tell me that it wasn't returnable, I > am, as you can understand, anxious to make a go of it. Does anyone on this > list have a Laser 3000, and if so, do you have the same problem? How do you > cope with it? Any constructive suggestions and advice would be appreciated. > Jennifer > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, i have the diamond laser 1000, same problems there too, the water landing on the glass is a good thing, unfornutally the white residue is going to be there. i would use the top feeder to wash away the grit at the blade. also i found if i blow on the glass while working with it will move the water out of the way so i can see what i'm doing. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 15:16:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDeFe-0000q0a; Wed, 16 Oct 96 15:15 PDT X-Path: MMAC.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM!Rund#m#_Sharen From: "Rund, Sharen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: OOF: RE: Stained Glass Reference Book Date: 16 Oct 1996 15:20:20 U Message-ID: <1996Oct16.72020.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello, I'm away from the office but will be returning on 10/28/96 - please see Mike Fabel for any questions, etc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 16:09:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDf4Z-0001Bsa; Wed, 16 Oct 96 16:08 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Fireplace Screens Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:40:41 +0000 Message-ID: <199610162306.AAA15092@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Stephanie, et al, Ain't life funny; about 2 weeks ago, a black-smith contacted me. He had rescued some rather fabulous, genuine wroght iron Victorian fire screen from a back yard somewhere, bought them for peanuts, cleaned them up and renovated them. Now he wants me to make the stained glass to go into them. As it makes a nice change for me (normally doing buildings), I was delighted to accept. In any case, I want to "befriend" an old fashioned blacksmith (NO! Don't get the WRONG idea, here!!), as I have designs of my own for his skills (in wrought iron, silly!!). For the first screen, he had already his own design idea. He had been to the Library. When I saw the design I groaned.... It was so unmistakeable... it was so awful. WHERE did it come from???? Sure enough, my "pet-hate" Ed Sibbett Junior.... No giggles PLEASE!! Needless to say, I drew a deep breath and told him I wouldn't do it that way. He agreed (Thank God!). I am looking forward to it. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 16:09:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDf4Z-00017Ma; Wed, 16 Oct 96 16:08 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: I found a Glass Glue Recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:40:41 +0000 Message-ID: <199610162306.AAA15095@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda (Campbell) Many thanks for sharing your glass glue recipe with us. What a great idea. ;-)) sounds delicious ;-) Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 16:09:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDf4Z-0001Dma; Wed, 16 Oct 96 16:08 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:40:41 +0000 Message-ID: <199610162306.AAA15098@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sue (Eiszler), 4 years is a very long time for a tip. Mine last MAX about a year, and that is with careful maintenance. It's nothing so frustrating using a tip that is "pitted and refuse to melt the solder. Pension off your old one and invest in a new (over here approx. $7.00 - so not yet a "fortune"). Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 16:29:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDfNY-0001Bna; Wed, 16 Oct 96 16:28 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com, "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: Re: I found a Glass Glue Recipe Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 18:24:04 -0500 Message-ID: <199610162324.SAA18360@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >Hey, if it will glue marbles together it will do ANYYHING. > > >Linda > Sounds like a good breath freshener or a quick snack to boot ;-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 16:50:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDfhj-0000sba; Wed, 16 Oct 96 16:48 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Fireplace Screens Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:43:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct16.154354.0> References: <<199610162306.AAA15092@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Hi Stephanie, et al, > > Ain't life funny; about 2 weeks ago, a black-smith contacted me. He > had rescued some rather fabulous, genuine wroght iron Victorian fire > screen from a back yard somewhere, bought them for peanuts, cleaned > them up and renovated them. Now he wants me to make the stained > glass to go into them. As it makes a nice change for me (normally > doing buildings), I was delighted to accept. In any case, I want to > "befriend" an old fashioned blacksmith (NO! Don't get the WRONG idea, > here!!), as I have designs of my own for his skills (in wrought iron, > silly!!). > For the first screen, he had already his own design idea. He had been to the > Library. When I saw the design I groaned.... It was so > unmistakeable... it was so awful. WHERE did it come from???? > Sure enough, my "pet-hate" Ed Sibbett Junior.... > No giggles PLEASE!! > Needless to say, I drew a deep breath and told him I wouldn't do it > that way. > He agreed (Thank God!). > I am looking forward to it. > Elisabeth 'n Toby > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i dunno something about fire place screens and art nuvo (i spelled how i pronounced it), always seem to go together, even though it's real ugly. something to think about is to do what tiffany did. he did all the pieces in a wide came, then doubled or tripled up the came (stacked) to give it a look of wrought iron. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 19:41:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDiNT-00011pa; Wed, 16 Oct 96 19:40 PDT X-Path: qni.com!bmorgan From: Brian Morgan To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:41:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3264F400.708@qni.com> References: <<199610162306.AAA15098@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Sue (Eiszler), > 4 years is a very long time for a tip. Mine last MAX about a year, > and that is with careful maintenance. > It's nothing so frustrating using a tip that is "pitted and refuse > to melt the solder. > Pension off your old one and invest in a new (over here approx. $7.00 > - so not yet a "fortune"). > Elisabeth 'n Toby > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass If you own a Weller and really want to save money. DON'T BUY YOUR TIP FROM THE STAINED GLASS OR HOBBY STORE!!! Take it from a buyer, purchase your iron accesories from a local electronics supplier or catalouge such as Marshall, Newark ect... I can buy tips for $4.50 at my local supplier Brian Morgan Kansas City, Mo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 19:59:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDiew-0000Mva; Wed, 16 Oct 96 19:58 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:58:02 -0700 Message-ID: <199610170258.TAA21505@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Michael Smoucha wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >-- I would avoid using rings soldered onto the perimeter chanels on a >> window this size. They are bound to fail. An alternate method is to run >> a galvanized re- bar along the top and 1/4 down the sides attached to >> the back of the panel. Solder these bars in as many spots as practical >> at exsisting joints but at least 4-6 places on a panel this size. >> drill holes in the corners and hang from the holes. This method helps >> to distribute the weight of the panel over more of the surface. >> >> ms >> ---- > >welp, my method is best used for lighter panels, nothing larger than >16x20". now i thought that solder does'nt stick to galvanized metal. how >do you get the solder to stick to it? in time galvanic action will occur >causing it to seperate from the solder. brass rebar i can see. > >---Mike Savad > >-- Hot diped galvanized rebar is a standard in the industry. The galvanizing process is a method of zinc coating steel bars. getting solder to stick to the zinc is no problem. These bars ( we use 1/8 x 3/8 or 1/8 x 1/2 on realy large projects) can be bent to follow the lead lines. When used properly and coupled with proper installation you can count on them to last for decades or more ( our company offers a 50 year warrenty on new work.) To tell the truth we advise against rings soldered directly on the perimeter came even on small (12 x 12) panels. I personaly have seen to many panels come in for restoration due to a fall from even "properly installed" rings. It simply is'nt worth the risk. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 20:04:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDijm-0000dNa; Wed, 16 Oct 96 20:03 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silicone removal Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:03:05 -0700 Message-ID: <199610170303.UAA28448@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Does anyone know of an easy and (hopefully) quick way to remove GE Silicone Gel >from glass? It sure likes to bond with the glass! >...Christie > >---- >The only way is a razor blade (and lots of care). My inquirerys with the local G.E. rep ended with this solution because I was told that there is no solvent for silicone. This is one of it's strengths, until you are trying to remove it ( rather tenacious adhesion).If anyone has any contrary information I would be very interested. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 20:07:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDinI-0000lRa; Wed, 16 Oct 96 20:06 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silicone removal Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:06:41 -0700 Message-ID: <199610170306.UAA03664@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Try straight ammonia. We sandblasted a cabinet door panel with a light >frosting background, then got sloppy with the silicon caulk when putting it >in the door frame. Ammonia straight out of the bottle took the caulk off >the sandblasted surface just fine. Was this cured silicone? Was it 100% silicone or siliconized latex caulk? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 20:34:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDjE7-0001F0a; Wed, 16 Oct 96 20:34 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Band Saw Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:34:25 -0700 Message-ID: <199610170334.UAA06070@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > I finally bought a band saw last >month. Every time I cut, the water (which I know is necessary) >floods the glass and, since it contains glass powder, it covers the pattern >line totally, preventing me from seeing where I'm cutting. This is a problem with any cutting or drilling process on glass. Even "waterproof" markers do not stay on long enough. There are a couple of posible solutions, depending on your skill, patience etc. One way to cope is to use adhesive vinyl for your patterns. Make sure the glass is clean then apply the vinyl to the glass and cut away. Another option if the glass is transparent and light in color is to draw on the back of the glass and cover the ink with tape. If you feel confident in your cutting you can try scoring the pattern on the glass then cutting to this line (though this can be a little risky). As you not the water is indespensible. It is also important to have plenty of it. Good luck. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 16 20:55:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDjXo-00012Pa; Wed, 16 Oct 96 20:54 PDT X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:32:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct16.14320.0> References: <<3264F400.708@qni.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Brian Morgan wrote: > > Toby wrote: > > > > Sue (Eiszler), > > 4 years is a very long time for a tip. Mine last MAX about a year, > > and that is with careful maintenance. > > It's nothing so frustrating using a tip that is "pitted and refuse > > to melt the solder. > > Pension off your old one and invest in a new (over here approx. $7.00 > > - so not yet a "fortune"). > > Elisabeth 'n Toby > > ---- > > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > > ---- > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > If you own a Weller and really want to save money. DON'T BUY YOUR TIP > FROM THE STAINED GLASS OR HOBBY STORE!!! Take it from a buyer, purchase > your iron accesories from a local electronics supplier or catalouge such > as Marshall, Newark ect... I can buy tips for $4.50 at my local > supplier > > Brian Morgan > Kansas City, Mo > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi Brian, got any addresses for the catalogs you mentioned for buying electronic stuff, like soldering iron tips? If so, how about passing the addresses along? Would appreciate it. Thanks for the info -- T. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 01:18:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDnem-0001B8a; Thu, 17 Oct 96 01:18 PDT X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Glass Magazines Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 01:01:46 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct17.5146.0> References: <<199610162306.AAA15092@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everybody, I've been getting Glass Patterns Quarterly and like some things about it, but not others. I'm not crazy about the book review column because each review ends with "Run out and buy it today!". Not too objective. I do enjoy reading the articles and patterns. Even if it's not something I intend to make, a lot of times I pick something I didn't know. I like the ads and reading about new products. Since I'm not into hot glass (yet, anyway), or sandblasting, I'm not interested in those parts. I know there's another glass magazine out there that is primarily stained glass, but can't remember the name. Could someone tell me the name and phone #? If there's anyone out there who gets it, I'd like to hear some comments. How do you like it? I love Stained Glass News and can't wait until our glass retailer opens, so I won't miss an issue. Thanks for any comments. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 02:11:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDoU0-00019ma; Thu, 17 Oct 96 02:11 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Glass Magazines Date: 17 Oct 96 05:09:44 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct17.9944.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I know there's another glass magazine out there that is primarily >stained glass, but can't remember the name. Jerri There's Glass Craftsman at (215) 860-9947. But its book reviews are the same. On the other hand, no trade magazine is the New York Times Book Review ... the style is really more on the order of a recommendation, rather than a review. If they don't like a book, they don't review it, IMHO. Albert __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 03:39:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDpr5-0000hta; Thu, 17 Oct 96 03:39 PDT X-Path: nethawk.com!1091 From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 06:44:27 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Brian, Color me ignorant...could you supply addresses please. I just bought a new tip for $12 last night and would love to have addresses of Marshall and Newark for the future. When you say local supplier, do you mean a Radio Shack type place? >If you own a Weller and really want to save money. DON'T BUY YOUR TIP >FROM THE STAINED GLASS OR HOBBY STORE!!! Take it from a buyer, purchase >your iron accesories from a local electronics supplier or catalouge such >as Marshall, Newark ect... I can buy tips for $4.50 at my local >supplier Sue 1091@nethawk.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 05:21:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDrQn-000191a; Thu, 17 Oct 96 05:20 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: How to repair foiled stained glass? Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 08:17:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct17.41727.0> References: <<1996Oct11.143052.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Chris McMurdo wrote: > > Thanks, Mike, for that nice,concise, step-by-step procedure on repairing > stained glass. I'm also new to stained glass and bungled my first > attempt to repair a piece. Does anyone know of a good, comprehensive > book on stained glass making, covering the basics and more advanced > techniques? I've taken a basic class in stained glass, but other than > taking more classes or learning through trial and error, it would be > nice to have such a book to refer to. > > Chris McMurdo > San Mateo, CA > I also suggest getting as many back issues of possible of Stained Glass News, they not only have articles on technique and products, they have tips from people who actually have tried out unusual procedures that really work. I really think Stained Glass News is a plus for anyone starting out in Stained Glass. Stained Glass News should be available at your local retailer. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran P.S. I am not involved in Stained Glass News in any way. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 06:10:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDsDS-0000t0a; Thu, 17 Oct 96 06:10 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!knowitall From: Roseanne Campbell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: mosaics Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 13:10:19 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct17.131019.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 12:34 AM 10/15/1996 +0000, you wrote: > Roseanne > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >Dear Jennifer, Thanks for information on mosaics. Roseanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 06:11:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDsDt-00015ya; Thu, 17 Oct 96 06:10 PDT X-Path: aol.com!GCmagazine From: GCmagazine@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Jersey glass expo Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 09:09:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct17.5935.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Maruca, The Glass Craft Conference Autumn 96 will be held Nov. 1,2 3, 1996 at the Clarion Hotel in Mt. Laurel, NJ. It has a full schedule of how-to workshops and glass related festivities including a trip to Wheaton Village on October 31. Instructors include Phil teefy, Tommy "G" Giambusso, Linda Abbot and John Smith, Hugh Naggar, Joe Porcelli, Rachel Martin, Norm and Ruth Dobbins, Darlene Johnson and Judy Lee, Linda Huneycutt-LeGrand and Steve Belle and others. Call 800-217-4527 or 702-734-0070 for details. If you have any problems getting through, call the Glass Craftsman magazine office and maybe we'll be able to help you. It promises to be a great weekend, hope to see you there. Glass Craftsman Magazine GCMAGAZINE@ aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 06:58:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDsxM-0000Zua; Thu, 17 Oct 96 06:57 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass Reference Book Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:02:33 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct17.3233.0> References: <<1996Oct16.8144.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Phil Taylor wrote: > > Chris McMurdo wrote:, the best shelf reference I've been told about (and have also purchased) is a book titled, Stained Glass Projects & Patterns, by George Shannon & Pat Torlen. It's well illustrated, good Hi, My choice is "How To Work In Stained Glass" by Anita & Seymour Isenberg ISBN 0-8019-7355-4 334 pages B&W 16 color pages. I'm task oriented and the text is concise. It's not glittery like "Stained Glass Projects & Patterns" George Shannon & Pat Torlen ISBN 1-895569-40-0 128 pages color, a lot of illus. but its meaty. I'de get both of them. April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 07:26:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDtOr-0001Cfa; Thu, 17 Oct 96 07:26 PDT X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Jersey glass expo Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1996Oct17.62557.0> References: <<1996Oct17.5935.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks for the info! That 800 number is the same one that failed me last time, so I believe I'll give you a call. What I really want are the detailed times/teachers/titles for various classes, so I can register before all the good stuff is booked up! On Thu, 17 Oct 1996 GCmagazine@aol.com wrote: > Dear Maruca, > The Glass Craft Conference Autumn 96 will be held Nov. 1,2 3, 1996 at the > Clarion Hotel in Mt. Laurel, NJ. It has a full schedule of how-to workshops > and glass related festivities including a trip to Wheaton Village on October > 31. Instructors include Phil teefy, Tommy "G" Giambusso, Linda Abbot and John > Smith, Hugh Naggar, Joe Porcelli, Rachel Martin, Norm and Ruth Dobbins, > Darlene Johnson and Judy Lee, Linda Huneycutt-LeGrand and Steve Belle and > others. Call 800-217-4527 or 702-734-0070 for details. If you have any > problems getting through, call the Glass Craftsman magazine office and maybe > we'll be able to help you. It promises to be a great weekend, hope to see you > there. > > Glass Craftsman Magazine > GCMAGAZINE@ aol.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 07:36:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDtXu-0000V0a; Thu, 17 Oct 96 07:35 PDT X-Path: aol.com!RTMEMT From: RTMEMT@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First "Large" Panel Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:35:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct17.63530.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >To tell the truth we advise against rings soldered directly on the >perimeter came even on small (12 x 12) panels. I personaly have seen to >many panels come in for restoration due to a fall from even "properly >installed" rings. It simply is'nt worth the risk. Agreed. I've repaired several myself. Try to distribute the weight of the panel over as much support system as is practical. Remember solder is very soft and the weight of the panel can easily pull out hangers from the solder. If you've had a physics course, think about vector forces, and tackling reinforcing and installation will make more sense. Someone mentioned planning this out in the design stage....excellent advice. It won't end up being an afterthought and structurally unsound. Rita ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 09:03:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDuu5-0000h9a; Thu, 17 Oct 96 09:02 PDT X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Fireplace Screens Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 09:02:25 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1996Oct16.154354.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk The last 2 issues (aug/sept and oct/nov 96) of Glass Craftsman magazine had a 2 part article on designing and building a fireplace screen. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 09:12:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDv2u-00015ca; Thu, 17 Oct 96 09:11 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Fireplace Screens Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:44:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199610171609.RAA15087@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Mike (Savad); You replied: > ---- > ---- i dunno something about fire place screens and art nuvo (i spelled how i pronounced it), always seem to go together, even though it's real ugly. something to think about is to do what tiffany did. he did all the pieces in a wide came, then doubled or tripled up the came (stacked) to give it a look of wrought iron. Interesting idea which I hadn't thought of before. But, yes.. of course....! Will try it out next time. Many thanks Mike! Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 09:12:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDv2u-0001BZa; Thu, 17 Oct 96 09:11 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass Reference Book Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:44:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199610171609.RAA15084@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi April, Phil, et al, Unusually for me, I re-quote the last 2 quotes in full, I found relevant. April's suggestion of the "Isenberg" book is an excellent one and I agree with her comments, The same team has also written a further book "Stained Glass - Advanced techniques and Projects", which is equally excellent. ISBN No. 0-8019-6194-7, or for its paperback issue 0-8019-6195-5 pbk. Not "glitzy", but down to earth practical and "easy" to read. Elisabeth 'n Toby Phil Taylor wrote: > > Chris McMurdo wrote:, the best shelf reference I've been told about (and have also purchased) is a book titled, Stained Glass Projects & Patterns, by George Shannon & Pat Torlen. It's well illustrated, good Hi, My choice is "How To Work In Stained Glass" by Anita & Seymour Isenberg ISBN 0-8019-7355-4 334 pages B&W 16 color pages. I'm task oriented and the text is concise. It's not glittery like "Stained Glass Projects & Patterns" George Shannon & Pat Torlen ISBN 1-895569-40-0 128 pages color, a lot of illus. but its meaty. I'de get both of them. April ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 09:19:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDv9X-0000e7a; Thu, 17 Oct 96 09:18 PDT X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 09:18:23 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<199610162306.AAA15098@linux.nildram.co.uk>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > If you own a Weller and really want to save money. DON'T BUY YOUR TIP > FROM THE STAINED GLASS OR HOBBY STORE!!! Take it from a buyer, purchase > your iron accesories from a local electronics supplier or catalouge such > as Marshall, Newark ect... I can buy tips for $4.50 at my local > supplier not only that, but my local home depot carries weller irons and tips. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 10:24:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDwB2-0000L5a; Thu, 17 Oct 96 10:24 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Easter Visit to Chartres in France - UPDATE Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 17:56:32 +0000 Message-ID: <199610171722.SAA00217@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Evereybody, There is a special file in my e-mail system called "Cartres 97", where all e-mails from/to individuals have been stored, for reply. Our "fantasies" now firming up to something realistic and realizable. The following is an e-mail copy of a News Release gone out to 3 Colleges yesterday (17.10.96) and to a number of other interested people. In short, it looks as if the trip is ON!! Here goes: EASTER 1997 VISIT TO CHARTRES IN FRANCE =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D THE CATHEDRAL OF THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS & BEAUTIFUL STAINED GLASS. 4-5 days trip by coach (from UK) 3 nights accommodation in Chartres WEDNESDAY 2nd - SATURDAY 5th APRIL 1997 Preliminary Estimate of cost UK=A3150.00 per person (single's supplement approx. UK=A3 50). This includes: 1) Departure by coach from regional point in UK and return journey to/from ferry. 2) Ferry crossing to/from France 3) Return coach journey to/from Chartres 4) Use of coach + driver in/around Chartres (excursions etc.). The driver is part of "the team" and speaks fluent French. 5) Bed and Breakfast accommodation in Central City of Chartres (i.e. NOT out in the "sticks"). The accommodation is 2* - rated. THIS TRIP is aimed MAINLY at Stained Glass Enthusiasts, but we also welcome: "Glass@ Bungi" visitors Photographers Painters/Sketchers French Learners (Adults) Wine Tasters Church Members Spouses/Partners & Friends PLEASE REGISTER YOUR INTEREST N O W , SO WE CAN KEEP YOU INFORMED AND GIVE YOU FURTHER DETAILS AS/WHEN AVAILABLE. Full Name, address,telephone/fax number (or e-mail address). The coach company is a reputable company who has done many similar trips to France before. They are deliberately planning "free space" in the coach (for alcoholics and souvenir hunters...). More presice costings will emerge soon. Payment details for "glass@Bungi visitors" we will work out by New Year. There is likely to be a non-refundable deposit and the balance to be paid some time in February. (I am working on setting up US$ payment to be set up for you). As regards fares to get to UK, I have numerous ideas sent to me from you about "Air Miles/Frequent Fliers Points", as well as Delta Airways "Starvers' " Deals. All of which I hope to bring out into the open now. Accommodation in UK: I am located about 40 miles north of London. Do not book LONDON Hotels!!!! Good, "country" accommodation at a fraction of the price is available locally around the area where I live. If you smile sweetly enough, I might even throw the odd Swedish dinner at you (Vegetarian or otherwise...) If any of you care to pick up the odd little bit from Delphi for me, I might even stretch it to an extra lunch...... :-)) The "Underwriting"/Organizing organization for this this trip is: Samuel Whitbread Community College Shefford Road Clifton Bedfordshire SG17 5QS United Kingdom tel: 00-44-1462-811997 fax:00-44-1462-851200 Mrs. Judith Robinson (pint-sized American who - I think - is joining us) ... In a Meeting only this afternoon, above pint-sized "Judy" said to the Director of a prestigeous Crafts College; "Elisabeth wants to go to Chartres, so we are organizing this trip....." I have a lot of time for her AND her College, they are a rural Further Education College with a lot of "get up and go". I think I already mentioned that they sponsored me financially last year for the Hungarian Exhibition. It wasn't a lot, but it was an act of faith. ... and myself as "liaison"; name and contact as already infamously known: Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 10:51:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDwak-0000oya; Thu, 17 Oct 96 10:50 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Fireplace Screens Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 13:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610171750.NAA16430@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >The last 2 issues (aug/sept and oct/nov 96) of Glass Craftsman magazine had >a 2 part article on designing and building a fireplace screen. Just a little correction: First article is in the June/July 96 and the second in the Oct/Nov 96. Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 13:56:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDzTp-0000GMa; Thu, 17 Oct 96 13:55 PDT X-Path: lodz.pdi.net!michu-g From: "=?Windows-1250?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" To: Subject: Re: Take a Break Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 02:35:34 +0100 Message-ID: <199610172055.VAA00765@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Bravo April and thanks for such wonderful break. Translated into music this would be Gary Burton/vib/+Chick Corea/piano/ on album Cristal Silence released some years back.Worth listening = especialy while designing. Is there more poetry,music or prose devoted to S.G.? Greg ---------- > From: April Paine > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Take a Break > Date: 14 pa=9Fdziernika 1996 23:41 >=20 > STAINED GLASS =20 >=20 > =20 > STAINED GLASS WINDOWS > SPARKLE AND SHINE > BROKEN PIECES ENTWINED > DARKEN COLORS THROUGH WHICH > LIGHT SHINES > A PEACEFUL GLOW > CATCHING THE SUNSHINE > SENDING THE BEAMS > DEEP WITHIN > MY SOUL > BEAUTY TO BRING > HOPE TO RENEW > WARMING MY THOUGHTS > WHILE I SIT IN THE STILL > CAUGHT IN A MYSTICAL SPELL > CARRIED AWAY > SURROUNDED BY THE > WARMTH IN THE REFLECTIONS > OF THE DAY > COLORS FADING AWAY > AS THE SUN > SLOWLY SLIPS BEHIND THE CLOUDS > JUST AS MY LIFE > CHANGES > FROM BLUE TO GRAY >=20 >=20 > J. MOORE > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 13:56:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDzTy-00010Ra; Thu, 17 Oct 96 13:55 PDT X-Path: lodz.pdi.net!michu-g From: "=?Windows-1250?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" To: Subject: Re: mosaics Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 02:45:27 +0100 Message-ID: <199610172055.VAA00769@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Is mosaics ,especialy steping stones for garden and alikes, such hot = item nowadays in US as we hear of here in Europe.What are the prices/how do you price it? How about "slipery when wet" problem. Greg /and europeans of only 4 months a year gardening season./ ---------- > From: Joyce Moran > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: mosaics > Date: 15 pa=9Fdziernika 1996 12:34 >=20 > mike peck wrote: > >=20 > > At 03:33 PM 10/14/96 +0000, you wrote: > > >Hi, > > > > > >Does anyone make the mosaic stepping stones as in Tiffany Gardens? = What, if > > >anything, so you put on them to preserve them-i. e. make them more = weather > > >resistant? > >=20 > > We use Thompson's Waterseal, doesn't change any colors, repels water = just > > fine. Be sure to dig a hole about 8-10 inches deep where you want = to put > > the stone, then fill it with medium size gravel and put your stone = on top. > > This will provide some drainage so the stone is not in standing = water. Take > > it in during freezing weather. I know the book says it's not = necessary, but > > I am not optimistic that they will survive freeze/thaw for many = years. > >=20 >=20 >=20 > Last winter, several people from Michigan and Wisconsin or Montana=20 > commented that their stones held up just fine in up to -30 degrees F=20 > weather. I'd say that should be good enough for most of us in the = rest=20 > of the US as a test. >=20 > Garden of Glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 14:22:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vDztY-000190a; Thu, 17 Oct 96 14:22 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silicone removal Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:22:17 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct17.212217.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 03:06 AM 10/17/96 +0000, you wrote: >You wrote: > >> >>Try straight ammonia. We sandblasted a cabinet door panel with a >light >>frosting background, then got sloppy with the silicon caulk when >putting it >>in the door frame. Ammonia straight out of the bottle took the caulk >off >>the sandblasted surface just fine. > > >Was this cured silicone? Was it 100% silicone or siliconized latex >caulk? I just read the label, looks like it was acrylic latex w/silicon. Mfr is macklanburg-Duncan. It goes on white, but cures to clear over 2-3 days. The caulk had cured for about 3 days when we hit it with the ammonia. We took a cotton ball and saturated it with ammonia then swabbed the area, then threw the cotton ball away, swabbed it again with a fresh cotton ball, threw it away, etc. It wicked the caulk right up. I saw that the other replies to this recommended scraping, but we didn't want to do that because we didn't want to scratch a sandblasted surface. If there are "no solvents" for the other type of caulk, I suggest you look into this stuff, it has a 35 year guarantee and holds glass to wood surfaces as good as anything we've seen. Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 14:36:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vE06N-00019Za; Thu, 17 Oct 96 14:35 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Easter Visit to Chartres in France - UPDATE Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:08:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199610172133.WAA19670@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk CORRECTION!!!! To our e-mail sent on 17.10.96 at 17.56:32 hrs 1) the " =3D".......... was supposed to be underlining. Looked fine on my screen, but when received back, looked anything but... 2) UK prices. Just dunno why my perfectly adjusted internationally accepting key-board and screen wouldn't return a UK Pound Sterling symbol. Again, it was OK on my screen but when posted, came up as "UK=A3..." This should read UK Pound Sterling 150.00 and UK Pound Sterling 50. Sorry about confusion. This hasn't happened before.... Don't understand why now.... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 15:22:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vE0pI-0001Aha; Thu, 17 Oct 96 15:22 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Easter Visit to Chartres in France - UPDATE Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 18:21:55 -0400 Message-ID: <9610172221.AA21979@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >EASTER 1997 VISIT TO CHARTRES IN FRANCE>> I am leaving for Paris on Thursday. We will be in Chartes on the 26th and meeting with the people from the internationle ecole du vitrail. We were there the year before last and spoke to a number of the students and teachers. I am looking forward to our trip. One of the most magnificent glass installations in Paris is Sante Chappelle. If you get the chance to stop there it is a must. Any information I can get for you while I am there just let me know. my best, pj > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 15:25:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vE0sG-0000owa; Thu, 17 Oct 96 15:25 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Jersey glass expo Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 18:25:03 -0400 Message-ID: <9610172225.AA22148@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > >> Dear Maruca, We are about five minutes from the Clarion Hotel. If yourself or anyone else who will be attending the conference nneds information about the area just let me know. We will probably be there on November 12th I am not sure about the rest of the dates as yet.. But would be glad to help anyone!!! my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 15:56:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vE1MN-000196a; Thu, 17 Oct 96 15:56 PDT X-Path: qni.com!bmorgan From: Brian Morgan To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 05:57:03 -0500 Message-ID: <326610FF.2DB1@qni.com> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sue Eiszler wrote: > > Brian, > Color me ignorant...could you supply addresses please. I just > bought a new tip for $12 last night and would love to have addresses of > Marshall and Newark for the future. When you say local supplier, do you > mean a Radio Shack type place? > > >If you own a Weller and really want to save money. DON'T BUY YOUR TIP > >FROM THE STAINED GLASS OR HOBBY STORE!!! Take it from a buyer, purchase > >your iron accesories from a local electronics supplier or catalouge such > >as Marshall, Newark ect... I can buy tips for $4.50 at my local > >supplier > > Sue > 1091@nethawk.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I will get the address and current cost from some of the larger suppliers. Radio Shack isn't the knid of place I'm talking about. They need to be a tool supplier to the electronis industry that individuals can also buy from. Brian ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 16:18:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vE1hi-0001Dia; Thu, 17 Oct 96 16:18 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Stepping stone pricing? Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:22:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct17.122254.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi, I went to a herb festival last Saturaday and they had simple stepping stones for $35-$40 with messages like "My Herb Patch" 12"x12". We charge $10-$20 in case you want to step more than once. ha! ha! Actually, that's what we do with scrap glass you can't do anthing else with. April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 16:27:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vE1qS-000164a; Thu, 17 Oct 96 16:27 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Take a Break Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:31:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct17.123150.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi, Author of poem resumed maiden name now is Joni Hensly not J. Moore. She also wrote "Kaleidoscope" won award from Library of Congress. April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 19:19:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vE4WK-0000V4a; Thu, 17 Oct 96 19:18 PDT X-Path: sympatico.ca!taylor_buckner From: "H. Taylor Buckner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Band Saw Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:18:07 -0400 Message-ID: <199610180218.WAA05495@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Many many thanks to all of you who took the time and trouble to respond to my queries about the band saw. I'll try each and every one of your suggestions and see where they take me. Mike Savad, I did try blowing the "sludge" away but I got so dizzy I had to stop cutting! Jennifer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 17 21:28:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vE6Xi-0000dIa; Thu, 17 Oct 96 21:28 PDT X-Path: snowcrest.net!beermug From: beermug@snowcrest.net (Paul Deutsch) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Take a break Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:28:09 -0700 Message-ID: <199610180428.VAA24318@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk One day a group of us "glassies" were sitting around trying to figure out what kind of glue was best to use to glue overlay eyes on a suncatcher, my husband popped up with this: What kind of glue do glass globs use When glass won't glue to the glass? Any kind of glue that glues glass globs Will help the glass globs stick like glue. By the time we all tried to say that, we were rolling on the floor laughing. Sherry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 18 07:19:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vEFkc-0001M0a; Fri, 18 Oct 96 07:18 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Band Saw Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:13:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct18.6138.0> References: <<199610180218.WAA05495@smtp1.sympatico.ca>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk H. Taylor Buckner wrote: > > Many many thanks to all of you who took the time and trouble to > respond to my queries about the band saw. I'll try each and every one of > your suggestions and see where they take me. Mike Savad, I did try blowing > the "sludge" away but I got so dizzy I had to stop cutting! Jennifer > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah i know that's the only week spot of the whole idea. usaully i blow and memorize the next part. an idea that might work is to have a air compressor with a small nozzle at the end, blowing at the work. it's a little more complicated and noisy, but should work. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 18 23:53:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vEVGk-0001NLa; Fri, 18 Oct 96 23:52 PDT X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: shyguy To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Band Saw Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 01:49:17 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct20.184917.0> References: <<199610161555.LAA08803@smtp1.sympatico.ca>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk H. Taylor Buckner wrote: > > Does anyone on this > list have a Laser 3000, and if so, do you have the same problem? How do you > cope with it? Any constructive suggestions and advice would be appreciated. > Jennifer > I have a Gryphon, and have the same problem, but to a lesser degree, as I can see the lines, but I use many different colors of markers to maximize conrast to the pattern line vs. the glass. some one I know uses a cheap aquarium air pump, with a piece of hose that points the air flow on the glass in front of the blade. Rather than resrict the water, it gets moved out of the way. Cheap fix for $15 or 20$, or free if you are an ex-fish hobbiest. Since I'm pushing 50, and my eyes are not getting better with age, I may be hooking something like this up in the near future. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 19 09:48:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vEeYu-0000Sva; Sat, 19 Oct 96 09:47 PDT X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Warner Crivellaro Problems Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 12:46:59 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct19.164659.0> References: <<199610180428.VAA24318@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Thanks to all those who responded about WC problems. I'm glad I'm not the only one. After waiting 6-7 weeks for a back ordered sample set of Kokomo, we called again to ask about it. Finally someone told us that they only get those sets once a year from Kokomo and they have no idea when they'll be getting more. The first time we called about it, we were told "about 2 weeks." We canceled that order and put in an order to Delphi. Since we're finally getting a retailer in the area, I'm not as interested anyway. Funny thing was, two items I wanted from Delphi were back ordered and they let me know right then how long they were backordered and asked if I still wanted them. It's a shame WC has such a nice catalog. I hope Delphi will start carrying a lot of the things in there. Maybe we should start a fan club. Think we could get a group discount? Jerri -hoping our BRAVES will win the series, even though I'm not a big baseball fan, it's fun to see everyone around here so excited. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 19 18:10:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vEmOj-0001EDa; Sat, 19 Oct 96 18:09 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Waterglass Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:14:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct19.141428.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Who has the best price on waterglass? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 19 18:20:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vEmZ3-0001Jva; Sat, 19 Oct 96 18:20 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Waterglass Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:15:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct19.171522.0> References: <<1996Oct19.141428.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April Paine wrote: > > Who has the best price on waterglass? > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass off hand i really don't know, i only buy glass from local stores. i don't like dealing with catalogs for glass because of breakage, but mainly i like to see the glass i'm getting. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 19 19:43:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vEnrF-0001Q1a; Sat, 19 Oct 96 19:43 PDT X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Waterglass Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:42:44 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct20.24244.0> References: <<1996Oct19.141428.0>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:15:22 -0400 "M. Savad" writes: >April Paine wrote: >> >> Who has the best price on waterglass? >> ---- Hi April, Looking at my catalogs, I picked out the lowest priced sheets (most of the glass is in the lower price): Delphi 16x18" $10.45 2 sq ft. WC 24x24" $14.70 Glass Crafters $4.95 sq ft or $4.20 sq ft. if you buy an 8-9' sheet Whittemore Durgin sells by the pound. Too confusing for me. I've never bought from them. It looks like WC has the best price, but I've never ordered glass from them. They substitute if they don't have what you want in stock, so be sure to specify if you don't want them to. I received a post from someone who told me they never knew what they were going to get, glass-wise, when the ordered from WC. Hope this helps. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 20 05:39:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vEx7Q-0000Vsa; Sun, 20 Oct 96 05:36 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Waterglass Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:34:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct20.4344.0> References: <<1996Oct19.141428.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April Paine wrote: > > Who has the best price on waterglass? > ---- My prices run from $4.99/sf to $6.49/sf depending on the color, of course that doesn't include shipping. I agree, when picking out glass, it is best to see the actual piece you are getting BEFORE you buy it, many have defects, that you may or may not be able to use. Buy from your local retailer! Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 20 06:14:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vExha-0001Pha; Sun, 20 Oct 96 06:14 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Waterglass Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 09:18:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct20.21837.0> References: <<1996Oct20.4344.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Joyce Moran wrote: > > April Paine wrote: > > > > Who has the best price on waterglass? > > ---- > > My prices run from $4.99/sf to $6.49/sf depending on the color, of > course that doesn't include shipping. I agree, when picking out glass, > it is best to see the actual piece you are getting BEFORE you buy it, > many have defects, that you may or may not be able to use. Buy from > your local retailer! > > Garden of Glass > Joyce Moran Hi, Does anyone buy bulk wholesale waterglass? Best price or quality manufacturer? April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 20 14:29:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vF5P8-0001Uga; Sun, 20 Oct 96 14:27 PDT X-Path: indy.net!jlaws From: "James R. Laws" To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: Black Patina Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:26:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct20.11268.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I just completed a job with a wide zinc frame. When I applied the black patina it went onto the solder lines perfectly but looks very splotchy on the frame. I steel wooled the fram before applying the patina. Did I do something wrong? Any suggestions? Will a zinc frame hold a black enamel? Help! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 20 19:54:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFAUq-0001FOa; Sun, 20 Oct 96 19:53 PDT X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Black Patina Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:30:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct20.13303.0> References: <<1996Oct20.11268.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk James R. Laws wrote: > > I just completed a job with a wide zinc frame. When I applied the black > patina it went onto the solder lines perfectly but looks very splotchy > on the frame. I steel wooled the fram before applying the patina. Did > I do something wrong? Any suggestions? Will a zinc frame hold a black > enamel? Help! > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi James, There may be a couple of things you can do. First, the black patina may be for solder and not zinc. Even though the black patina for solder will turn the zinc black, it will look splotchy and will rub off easily. I recommend that you use the patina just for zinc. The other term you used, "enamel" -- I assume that you meant patina. Anyway, using steel wool on zinc doesn't do that much because it doesn't oxidize quickly like lead, zinc and copper. You do need to make sure that the zinc is clean. I recommend you wipe it with rubbing alcohol to remove hand oils and such. Wish you well - T. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 20 23:19:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFDhP-0000yFa; Sun, 20 Oct 96 23:18 PDT X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Black Patina Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 01:47:23 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct21.54723.0> References: <<1996Oct20.11268.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:26:08 -0500 "James R. Laws" writes: >I just completed a job with a wide zinc frame. When I applied the >black >patina it went onto the solder lines perfectly but looks very splotchy >on the frame. I steel wooled the fram before applying the patina. >Did >I do something wrong? Any suggestions? Will a zinc frame hold a >black >enamel? Help! Hi, I've used black patina for zinc and it's terrible. A couple of us had the same question a while back and no one seems to get good results using patina on zinc. I did tin the zinc on one panel and then patinaed it. The tinning didn't go on smoothly, more like a textured look, but it came out looking nice for that panel. I've given up on patina for zinc. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 21 05:57:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFJv0-0001ELa; Mon, 21 Oct 96 05:57 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Fireplace Screens Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 08:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199610211257.IAA03865@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Kathy, >The fireplace screens in the "Stained Glass Basics" book are great, they >are made by a couple of women who have a shop in Virginia. My husband made >a screen a couple of yrs. ago for my parents, measured the opening and went >to a fireplace shop to check on the size of the screen needed. Keep in >mind that the ladies in VA are billing these screens as usuable, we will >sell ours for beauty only, not to be used w/heat I don't think they will >stand up to the heat. You may want to talk with Marti the feature artist >in "Stained Glass Basics" she works out of "A Touch of Glass" in >Asheville, NC, and by the way is an excellent instructor, t/p 704 258-2749. Thank you very much for this information! I imagine that I will be in contact with Marti soon! Thanks again! Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 21 06:32:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFKSe-0001cTa; Mon, 21 Oct 96 06:32 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Black Patina Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 09:27:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct21.5274.0> References: <<1996Oct20.11268.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk James R. Laws wrote: > > I just completed a job with a wide zinc frame. When I applied the black > patina it went onto the solder lines perfectly but looks very splotchy > on the frame. I steel wooled the fram before applying the patina. Did > I do something wrong? Any suggestions? Will a zinc frame hold a black > enamel? Help! > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass you'll need a patina that can stick to zinc. reg. black will go on but also wipe right off. JAX pewter works pretty well. paint should stick (as long as all the oxides are off, and maybe seal it first with shellac or something), but may not match the solder. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 21 06:36:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFKWm-0000aGa; Mon, 21 Oct 96 06:36 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Black Patina Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 09:31:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct21.53119.0> References: <<1996Oct21.54723.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerri M Roey wrote: > > On Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:26:08 -0500 "James R. Laws" > writes: > >I just completed a job with a wide zinc frame. When I applied the > >black > >patina it went onto the solder lines perfectly but looks very splotchy > >on the frame. I steel wooled the fram before applying the patina. > >Did > >I do something wrong? Any suggestions? Will a zinc frame hold a > >black > >enamel? Help! > > Hi, > > I've used black patina for zinc and it's terrible. A couple of > us had the same question a while back and no one seems to get good > results using patina on zinc. I did tin the zinc on one panel and then > patinaed it. The tinning didn't go on smoothly, more like a textured > look, but it came out looking nice for that panel. I've given up on > patina for zinc. > > Jerri > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass since i've had simaler problems usally if the came is visable, i'll but a semi-rough sponge texture on it. in which you drop hot solder blobs on the zinc, then quickly, with a wet sponge, sploosh it down, splattering the solder giving it a neat "semi-industrial, antiquey" look. al little hard to polish though, theis methos is a modified use of grape vine decorative soldering. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 21 08:06:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFLvN-0000Uva; Mon, 21 Oct 96 08:05 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Black Patina Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:04:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct21.7435.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello James: This is an on-going problem. I wrote to the group eariler asking the same question. The best results that I got involved a 2-part process. Start off by making sure the zinc is clean. steel wool the zinc with 4-0 steel wool. Clean the zinc again (rubbing alchol) to remove any residual oil left by the steel wool. Next, apply a LEAD patina. Wash off the piece immediately. When you wash the piece, most of the zinc patina will come off. Not to worry. Dry the piece. Next, apply the Zinc-Specific patina. I usually use a paint brush. For some reason, applying the lead patina first seems to pre-etch the zinc. When the zinc patina is applied, it seems to take better. We just recently completed a project consisting of 36 12"x12" panels, all of which we used the above described technique with mostly good results. Admittedly, some zinc strips just refuse to take a patina, no matter what you do. If you decide to use this technique, please let me know how things turn out. Michael & Donna Shattered Images Studio Houston,TX. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 21 09:43:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFNS1-0000W1a; Mon, 21 Oct 96 09:43 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Health and Safety - To Monona Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:15:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199610211641.RAA09399@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Monona, Posting my appreciation and thanks for all to see. Thank you for your invaluable Health & Safety Info re stained glass teaching, received in snail-mail this morning. That was quite a package! Believe it or not, the conclusions I have reached during very recent travels around my own and neighbouring regions, talking/discussing to other stained glass teachers, is that there simply is NO such thing as a real Health & Safety implementation. What I hope to set up in my courses, will probably be the most extensive, comprehensive practice in the UK. It is very clear, from initial first "scanning through", that rules & permissable practices are far stricter in USA than they are in UK. It may come as a surprise to you, that "how I do things" , would probably have closed down my classes had they been in the USA, over here, other Colleges are looking to ME as an example of implementing UK Health & Safety rules....No other stained glass instructor, for example, is a qualified First Aider. I make a point of emphasizing that I am and I also make a point of keeping my First Aid training up-to-date (That means a full-time 1-week's course every 2 years, for which I/my business pays). I also carry heavy-duty gloves and safety goggles for my courses. In UK for vocational courses, you can inform, provide and encourage use of "personal" safety accessories, but you cannot dictate. I think this is the subtle differences between our Continents. About 15 years ago I was asked to act as an official interpreter for a Swedish Trade Union Delegation visiting the main Ford Car Factory in the UK. We spent about 3 solid days exploring the factory buildings, facilities, machinery and staff conditions. It was the height of fashion for young men to have long hair, they turned up at work with long shoulder-length hair. The young men stood over super high-revolving machinery with their locks flowing. Their hair got caught up in the macchinery and there was quite a number of young men having their hair caught up in the machinery and being literally totally "descalped". When the number of "descalped" young men became so large tha it became an embarrassement to the Company, they provided Company "hair-nets" for these young men. They stopped short of making it a "condition of employment". With the result that these macho chaps would neither cut their locks, but nor did they want to be seen "dead" wearing a hair-net..... The Swedish Trade Union delegation ahhpen to arrive a week or so just after one such incident, where a young lad was recovering in hospital. The Swedes were absolutely horrified and totally speechless, the Brits were embarrassed and tried evry which way to "dilute" the issue I was caught in the middle, because on the one hand, the Brits paid me, but on the other hand I myself horrified to see the what was going on in the "conveyor belt industry". This little eye-opener (and a number of others subsequently), AFTER my employment at Du Pont de Nemours in UK, where I had signed on the dotted line that I would be dismissed instantly without redress or recourse if I violated ANY of the Company's Health & Safety Rules. My health screening, before I was allowed to be hired was so comprehensive, thorough and detailed, that it caused total incredulity amongst my family & friends in UK. I was medically examined from toe nails to hair roots by London Harley Street Specialists, underwent x-rays after x-rays, tests after tests, that was totally unthinkable in the UK. I went through a mandatory "health-screening" every 2 years; Du Pont paid for me to have private medical insurance (in UK in those days - virtually unheard of). They wern't satisfied that I had a UK driving licence, they paid for me to have "Advanced Driving Tuition"; they even sent me on a special course run for Police Drivers. I know this was now some years ago, but even though we advance a little bit, the RATIO doesn't seem to change that much. Du Pont educated me extremely well as regards Health & Safety . College authorites in Further Education just simply have no idea whatsoever. Now they are beginning to "panic". Many thanks, will come back to you directly for specific points. Elisabeth ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 21 15:44:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFT4h-0000w2a; Mon, 21 Oct 96 15:43 PDT X-Path: sympatico.ca!taylor_buckner From: "H. Taylor Buckner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Black Patina Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:43:32 -0400 Message-ID: <199610212243.SAA14322@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike Savad, I was intrigued by your reference to "grape vine" decorative soldering. Could you expand on that technique a bit more? And, by the way, when you talk about the sponge-like texture being difficult to polish -- try using an old tooth brush. It's a bit tedious but it does get into all the little grooves and dips. Jennifer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 21 17:55:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFV7n-0001cGa; Mon, 21 Oct 96 17:55 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Black Patina Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 20:50:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct21.165011.0> References: <<199610212243.SAA14322@smtp1.sympatico.ca>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk H. Taylor Buckner wrote: > > Mike Savad, > I was intrigued by your reference to "grape vine" decorative > soldering. Could you expand on that technique a bit more? And, by the way, > when you talk about the sponge-like texture being difficult to polish -- try > using an old tooth brush. It's a bit tedious but it does get into all the > little grooves and dips. Jennifer > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass grape vine is my most favorite of decorative solderings. first put some flux on the line, then get a hot blob of solder and place it on the joint. while the solder is still in it's molton state press it quickly with a wet sponge. the sponge sould be just wet enough to be able to squeeze water out of it. the result is a rough looking splattered solder look, and depending on where you push the solder it kind of looks like hanging grapes. i like this one because it hides the most ugliest of beads, and i was able to hide a very irregular joint with it. the tricky part is polishing, the final shiny polish because it grabs the towel. another thing to be carefull of is sharp peaks, you'll have to carefully run your finger over the solder too feel for pointy spots. the feel should be rough, and it should'nt bite. :) ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 22 04:52:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFfJ9-0000Lya; Tue, 22 Oct 96 04:47 PDT X-Path: vladmire.voiceisp.net!mhooper From: mhooper@vladmire.voiceisp.net (Mark Hooper) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Black Patina Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 07:42:59 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 4:26 PM 10/20/96, James R. Laws wrote: >I just completed a job with a wide zinc frame. When I applied the black >patina it went onto the solder lines perfectly but looks very splotchy >on the frame. I steel wooled the fram before applying the patina. Did >I do something wrong? Any suggestions? Will a zinc frame hold a black >enamel? Help! Hi James, Try mixing a teaspoon or a tablespoon (I can't recall) of salt with 8oz patina. Apply, rinse, and let dry for a day...Hope this helps Mark | The Tiffany Touch | mhooper@vladmire.voiceisp.net | | | | | | | | Altoona PA | | ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 22 05:44:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFg85-0000m9a; Tue, 22 Oct 96 05:40 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com, medplant@sol.racsa.co.cr, amasters@sol.racsa.co.cr, Subject: *** IMPORTANT *** Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 06:36:25 -0600 Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19961022061752.2f47b316@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Return-Path: >Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:07:17 -0500 >To: carl@dpilink.com, epbowman@ro.com, jhudsone@inreach.com, > 102045.2210@CompuServe.COM, Ikoniclast@aol.com, > SYBIL TERRES GILMAR <73024.2035@CompuServe.COM>, costatravl@aol.com >From: jlowther@seraph1.sewanee.edu (Jan Drake-Lowther) >Subject: *** IMPORTANT *** >Cc: rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr, mlawton@ro.com, lowther@abs.net, > schne-l@arch.buffalo.edu, moyetoy@aol.com, MYB@cu220.nslsilus.org > >This message comes from a reliable source. Thought you might want to see it. > >Best, > > >Jan > > > >>Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:20:13 -0400 (EDT) >>X-Sender: jbaron@pop.interport.net >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>To: friedman@stevens-tech.edu, bmcgrath@stevens-tech.edu, >> pdonnell@stevens-tech.edu, icharisc@stevens-tech.edu, >> caddison@injersey.com, bsran@admin.nj.devry.edu, >> pjurkat@stevens-tech.edu, msteranc@stevens-tech.edu, >> carroll@rucs-admin.rutgers.edu >>From: jbaron@interport.net (Joshua D. Baron) >>Subject: *** IMPORTANT *** >>Cc: lostow@unitedmedia.com, krotem@susie.ecs.umass.edu, LKlein13@aol.com, >> charlson@juno.com, zimbo@inlink.com, ctmead@connectinc.com, >> jmbaron@pipeline.com >> >>Hello all- >> >> Thought everybody should read about this...FYI --> josh >> >> >>>>X-Status: >>>> >>>>Guys, please read this message thoroughly. It could save you >>>>a lot of money. >>>> >>>>Kirk >>>> >>>>V----------------------------------------------------------V >>>> >>>>******* SPECIAL ALERT ******* >>>> >>>>=========================================================== >>>> SCAM: >>>> >>>> Don't Respond To Emails, Phone Calls, Or Pages Which Tell You >>>> To Call An "809" Phone Number >>>>=========================================================== >>>> >>>>This is a very important issue of Internet ScamBusters! because >>>>it alerts you to a scam that is spreading *extremely* quickly, >>>>can easily cost you $100 or more, and is difficult to avoid >>>>unless you are aware of it. We'd like to thank Paul Bruemmer and >>>>Brian Stains for bringing this scam to our attention - both will >>>>receive Internet ScamBusters! tee shirts. This scam has also >>>>been identified by the National Fraud Information Center and is >>>>costing victims a lot of money. >>>> >>>>There are lots of different permutations of this scam, but here >>>>is how it works: >>>> >>>>Permutation #1: Internet Based Phone Scam Via Email You receive >>>>an email, typically with a subject line of "*ALERT*" or "Unpaid >>>>account." The message, which is being spammed across the net, >>>>says: >>>> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------- >>>>I am writing to give you a final 24hrs to settle your outstanding >>>>account. If I have not received the settlement in full, I will >>>>commence legal proceedings without further delay. If you would >>>>like to discuss this matter to avoid court action, call Mike >>>>Murray at Global Communications on +1 809 496 2700. >>>>---------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>Permutation #2: Phone Or Pager Scam You receive a message on your >>>>answering machine or your pager which asks you to call a number >>>>beginning with area code 809. The reason to you're asked to call >>>>varies: it can be to receive information about a family member >>>>who has been ill, to tell you someone has been arrested, died, to >>>>let you know you have won a wonderful prize, etc. In each case, >>>>you're told to call the 809 number right away. >>>> >>>>Since there are so many new area codes these days, people >>>>unknowingly return these calls. If you call from the US, you >>>>will apparently be charged $25 per-minute! Sometimes the person >>>>who answers the phone will speak broken English and pretend not >>>>to understand you. Other times, you'll just get a long recorded >>>>message. The point is, they will try to keep you on the phone as >>>>long as possible to increase the charges. Unfortunately, when >>>>you get your phone bill, you'll often be charged more than >>>>$100.00. >>>> >>>>Here's why it works: The 809 area code is located in the British >>>>Virgin Islands (the Bahamas). The 809 area code can be used as a >>>>"pay-per-call" number, similar to 900 numbers in the US. Since >>>>809 is not in the US, it is not covered by US regulations of 900 >>>>numbers, which require that you be notified and warned of charges >>>>and rates involved when you call a "pay-per-call" number. There >>>>is also no requirement that the company provide a time period >>>>during which you may terminate the call without being charged. >>>>Further, whereas many US phones have 900 number blocking (to >>>>avoid these kinds of charges), 900 number blocking will not >>>>prevent calls to the 809 area code. >>>> >>>>We recommend that no matter how you get the message, if you are >>>>asked to call a number with an 809 area code that you don't >>>>recognize, investigate further and/or disregard the message. Be >>>>*very* wary of email or calls asking you to call an 809 area code >>>>number. >>>> >>>>It's important to prevent becoming a victim of this scam, since >>>>trying to fight the charges afterwards can become a real >>>>nightmare. That's because you did actually make the call. If you >>>>complain, both our local phone company and your long distance >>>>carrier will not want to get involved and will most likely tell >>>>you that they are simply providing the billing for the foreign >>>>company. You'll end up dealing with a foreign company that >>>>argues they have done nothing wrong. >>>> >>>> >>>>Please forward this entire issue of Internet ScamBusters! to your >>>>friends, family and colleagues to help them become aware of this >>>>scam so they don't get ripped off. >>>> >>>> >>>>Anne Douglas Milburn >>>>Senior Producer >>>>Time Warner Electronic Publishing >>>>http://pathfinder.com/twep >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>----------------------------------------------- >>Joshua D. Baron >>Internet Curriculum Coordinator >>Stevens Institute of Technology >>Center for Improved Engineering and Science Education >>Castle Point on Hudson >>Hoboken, New Jersey 07030 >>URL: http://njnie.dl.stevens-tech.edu/~jbaron >>Email: jbaron@interport.net >>Voice: (201)216-8070 Fax: (201) 216-8069 Pager: (917) 738-9262 >> > > > > Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 22 06:38:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFgyp-0000qLa; Tue, 22 Oct 96 06:34 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!knowitall From: Roseanne Campbell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: oval frames Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:34:40 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct22.133440.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Does anyone have a suggestion for a source for odd size oval frames? I'm making the Madonna and Child picture that was in a 1981 Judy Miller Christmas pattern book. The picture itself is 153/8" by 203/8" and the nearest standard frame is 16 by 20 inches. I hate to recut half the glass to make it fit this other frame and am not sure about the allowances on the edges-if I do the edge in copper foil it won't change much but if I do the edge in lead I'm not sure how to go about it or what the measurements would be. I've done this before but was able to find someone to make a frame to fit and have moved away from my source. Please help-this is for my Mom for Christmas. Thanks in advance for any help. Also, I really appreciated all the replys to my mosaic questions. Roseanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 22 07:49:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vFi5W-000102a; Tue, 22 Oct 96 07:45 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: oval frames Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:40:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct22.64043.0> References: <<1996Oct22.133440.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Roseanne Campbell wrote: > > Hi, > > Does anyone have a suggestion for a source for odd size oval frames? I'm > making the Madonna and Child picture that was in a 1981 Judy Miller > Christmas pattern book. The picture itself is 153/8" by 203/8" and the > nearest standard frame is 16 by 20 inches. I hate to recut half the glass > to make it fit this other frame and am not sure about the allowances on the > edges-if I do the edge in copper foil it won't change much but if I do the > edge in lead I'm not sure how to go about it or what the measurements would > be. I've done this before but was able to find someone to make a frame to > fit and have moved away from my source. Please help-this is for my Mom for > Christmas. > > Thanks in advance for any help. Also, I really appreciated all the replys > to my mosaic questions. > > Roseanne > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, lets see, if you go up a frame size larger, you can put an adaptable glass border around it so it will fit the frame. and acually that's all i can think of for the moment, to keep the piece "neat" looking. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 23 04:48:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vG1n7-0001Ega; Wed, 23 Oct 96 04:48 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: oval frames Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:30:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct22.123053.0> References: <<1996Oct22.133440.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Roseanne Campbell wrote: > > Hi, > > Does anyone have a suggestion for a source for odd size oval frames? I'm > making the Madonna and Child picture that was in a 1981 Judy Miller > Christmas pattern book. The picture itself is 153/8" by 203/8" and the > nearest standard frame is 16 by 20 inches. I hate to recut half the glass > to make it fit this other frame and am not sure about the allowances on the > edges-if I do the edge in copper foil it won't change much but if I do the > edge in lead I'm not sure how to go about it or what the measurements would > be. I've done this before but was able to find someone to make a frame to > fit and have moved away from my source. Please help-this is for my Mom for > Christmas. > > Thanks in advance for any help. Also, I really appreciated all the replys > to my mosaic questions. > > Roseanne > I have a local carpenter make mine. He was able to make any oval, if you draw around the finished item, to give him a template. He charges about $40.00 for a large oval frame, but that doesn't include the spline to hold it into place. Where are you, and is shipping a concern? Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 23 06:43:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vG3Yl-0000zba; Wed, 23 Oct 96 06:41 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: New Webpage Info Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 09:41:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct23.54123.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello to All: Well I finally did it! I finally set up our webpage. I would appreciate you all looking at it and giving me some feedback. Please be gentle, since this is my first time (for setting up a webpage). |;-).... Michael & Donna Shattered Images Studio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 23 06:59:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vG3oS-0001Nta; Wed, 23 Oct 96 06:57 PDT X-Path: intran.xerox.com!liz From: liz@intran.xerox.com (Liz Lynch) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: New Webpage Info Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 07:01:22 PDT Message-ID: <9610231401.AA00913@moose.intran.xerox.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk First recommendation I have is to let us know the website address :) (Or remind us if it's been sent before). * * Hello to All: * * Well I finally did it! I finally set up our webpage. I would * appreciate you all looking at it and giving me some feedback. Please be * gentle, since this is my first time (for setting up a webpage). |;-).... * * Michael & Donna * Shattered Images Studio * ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 23 12:30:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vG8zk-0001E6a; Wed, 23 Oct 96 12:29 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Newsgroup Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 20:01:11 +0000 Message-ID: <199610231927.UAA28803@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: gshultz@post.cis.smu.edu (Gary Shultz) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Newsgroup Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:46:10 -0600 Reply-to: glass@bungi.com The Stained Glass Newsgroup is at rec.crafts.glass =Gary Thanks Gary, for "computer nerds" like myself, could you please give the complete address...... Thanks Elisabeth 'n Toby >Is there a stained glass newsgroup? How do I find it? Thanks. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~ ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~ ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665 Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~ ~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 23 12:30:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vG8zk-0001afa; Wed, 23 Oct 96 12:29 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: New Webpage Info Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 20:01:11 +0000 Message-ID: <199610231927.UAA28798@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Donna, Love to have a look at your new WEB-Site!! But WHERE, oh WHERE????? Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 23 15:16:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGBas-0001Sya; Wed, 23 Oct 96 15:16 PDT X-Path: selune.demon.co.uk!jc From: Jerry Cullingford To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Newsgroup Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 23:02:14 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <199610232202.XAA00949@gond.selune.demon.co.uk> References: <<199610231927.UAA28803@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elisabeth asked: > The Stained Glass Newsgroup is at rec.crafts.glass > > =Gary > > Thanks Gary, > for "computer nerds" like myself, could you please give the complete > address...... > Thanks > Elisabeth 'n Toby Er.. that *is* the complete adress. sort of :-). You could try "news:rec.crafts.glass" which might work, but most likely you'll need to set up some newsreading software - netscape has a seperate window for reading news (have a hunt through the menus); not sure what/if microsoft internet explorer does. In both cases, you probably need to tell the software where to find a news server to get the articles from; unlike websites, where there's a single source with a fixed address, news works like mail - copies of the articles are passed from site to site; each site may have different articles at any given instant, but they should eventually get passed around to everywhere that's interested - whenever the different news servers talk to each other, they exchange messages that the other site hasn't seen; sometimes replies can show up before the original article, if the reply travels by a faster route... Usually, your internet service provider will provide access to a news server as part of the service they provide, in the same sort of way they provide a mail service. in the case of demon, my home ISP, they have two servers - news.demon.co.uk for subscribers, and pubnews.demon.co.uk for non-subscribers - but you'd probably do best by checking with your service provider or technical guru :-). -Jerry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 24 07:13:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGQWI-00001va; Thu, 24 Oct 96 07:12 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Well Duh!!!! Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:11:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct24.6117.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sorry to All: I guess that I was so excited about finally getting the page to look just right that I forgot to include the URL. The URL is: HTTP://members.gnn.com/guitarshop Please don't hold my stupid omission against me..... Michael & Donna Shattered Images Studio Houston,TX. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 24 10:47:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGTrj-0000zoa; Thu, 24 Oct 96 10:46 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!phil7 From: Philip McRae To: glass@bungi.com Subject: looking just right Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:31:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct24.53113.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hey Michael & Donna Wow, great work on your site. The large images are very clear, and large to boot. Howard's should be as good. Nice work on your projects, especially the 2 dollar base. Your selection of projects shows concern for final pricing. Not way, way out in left field. You are commended for a fine craft site. Perhaps Al will recommend you be added to the Glass Line web site for a new link. I've bookmarked you and will return often. Phil7 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 24 11:26:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGUTe-00011pa; Thu, 24 Oct 96 11:25 PDT X-Path: alison.sbc.edu!melinton From: Liz Linton To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Newsgroup Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 14:22:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct24.92220.0> References: <<199610232202.XAA00949@gond.selune.demon.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Sweet Briar College Library Precedence: bulk > > for "computer nerds" like myself, could you please give the complete > > address...... > > Thanks > > Elisabeth 'n Toby If you have access to the world wide web you can read all the newsgroups at: http://www.zippo.com/ The "naughty" groups (alt.) are restricted to Zippo members who pay--I think the fee is $12 per year. But groups like rec.crafts.glass you can read for free. --Liz in central VA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 24 12:37:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGVae-0001U1a; Thu, 24 Oct 96 12:37 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: "J. Hendershott" To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: No dumb llamas here Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:44:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct24.5449.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just dumb owners. It's started to rain and she brought him right up to the barn. They always come in during the day when it rains. She let Lalique in the barn but Tawny isn't allowed in? Mom and baby are kushed in the door watching the world go by. I turned off the florescent light, and they seem to like that better. Maybe it makes a noise I can't hear? No one came in the barn yesterday, even to eat hay (the light has been on day and night since tuesday). Humm, interesting. Even Lew stayed out yesterday, and now is in the barn, on his side. I'll have to test this theory. Maybe I'll have to switch light fixtures. I guess I'll just let them be llamas...they have brains enough to come in out of the rain even if I don't. ;-) Janie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 24 13:33:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGWSq-0000vPa; Thu, 24 Oct 96 13:33 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: "J. Hendershott" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Boy did I get a wrong address Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:39:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct24.63919.0> References: <<1996Oct24.5449.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sorry about that gang, I guess you all can guess that I raise llamas in addition to doing stained glass. Stained glass llamas anyone? :-) Janie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 24 15:11:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGXzV-00013Ea; Thu, 24 Oct 96 15:11 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: looking just right Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 18:09:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct24.14946.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello Phillip: Thanks for the complements! As I said, this is my first attempt at setting up a web page. I have been building, trouble-shooting, selling, and repairing P.C.'s for about 8 yrs now. I really felt dumb when I realized that I had not included my URL for my web page. We have only been doing glass since Feb. '96, and I am glad to hear that we seem to be doing the right things. I decided not to price anything on my page. I figure that if someone is interested in purchasing something from us, they can Email the request to me. Thanks again for the complements, Michael & Donna Shattered Images Studio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 24 19:55:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGcQR-00010Pa; Thu, 24 Oct 96 19:55 PDT X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!wrightk5 From: Kristen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: glass blowing seminar/ courses Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 22:58:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct24.15581.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Check out this site for a glass blowing class and several GOOD sites for glassblowing. http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/%7Eeberhart/ it's a bit expensive for a college student and it is at that other school, but i still may con the parental units into allowing me to "further my education" http://www.science.wayne.edu/~ddaenzer is the site of a course offered at Wayne State University in the heart of Detroit for the winter term 1997. there may be more courses offered that can be found at the URL http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/%7Eeberhart/ but I didn't check them out because their to far away for me. Happy hunting, -- [ Kristen ] [ wrightk5@pilot.msu.edu ] [ ] [ I speak for my self and only represent everything that I am. ] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 02:58:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGj1O-0000Uja; Fri, 25 Oct 96 02:57 PDT X-Path: source.com.au!aking From: Andrea King To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Well Duh!!!! Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 19:54:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct25.12547.0> References: <<1996Oct24.6117.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Guitarshop@aol.com wrote: > > Sorry to All: > Michael and Donna Visisted your site and enjoyed it immensly. You did a great job of your only leaded panel. Andrea Melb, Aust ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 04:30:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGkRj-0000ZGa; Fri, 25 Oct 96 04:29 PDT X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: B J Snell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Newsgroup Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 07:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2.2.16.19961025072932.34479d46@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >Thanks Gary, >for "computer nerds" like myself, could you please give the complete >address...... >Thanks >Elisabeth 'n Toby Elizabeth, (and Toby) Try this if you have Netscape (2.01) Select "Window " from the Menu, then select "Netscape News". In "Netscape News" select "File" , then "Add Newsgroup" Type in "rec.crafts.glass and select the "open" button. Netscape will open this news group for you.... trusting that your server subscribes to this group...... if not follow the advise sent by Jerry...... Hope this works. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Barbara J. Snell Jansen's Dining, Cornell University 255-5960 bjs10@cornell.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 07:07:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGmtn-0000hza; Fri, 25 Oct 96 07:06 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Well Duh!!!! Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:06:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct25.661.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Good-day Andrea: I've always wanted to say that to somebody.. I know, too much Crocodile Dundee here . Thank you for visiting our web site. Like I said, it's my first attempt at one. I have been making a living for the past 8 years repairing, building, and selling computers. I apologize for not including my URL in my announcement. We have only been doing glass since Feb. '96. I got laid off from my last job (on Dec. 22nd) and needed something to occupy my time. I decided to take a class at a local glass shop. It was supposed to be a 6 week course, but after the first class, I decided that I could take it from there. I never went back for the other 5 classes. I taught my wife Donna, how to do stained glass. She cut most of the backround glass for the Tiffany Dragonfly lamp. We used Youghagany glass to get as close to the origional as possible. I had a very hard time cutting that stuff. I was only able to get 2 of the 7 repeats done myself. After that, every piece that I tried to cut would shatter in my hands. Donna asked if she could try cutting it, and I gladly agreed. She was able to cut out the 5 remaining repeats in about 3 days. Well, gotta go for now. I've always wanted a "Global - Pen - Pal" down under. I have always wanted to come over there and visit you beautiful country. Some day...... Thanks again for the complements, keep in touch, Michael & Donna McGrew Shattered Images Studio Houston,TX. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 08:09:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGnsF-00019xa; Fri, 25 Oct 96 08:08 PDT X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Music to Work By Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:13:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct25.41322.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Personally- I like to play something like Liszt, Mozart or similar while I work- and turn the volume up (nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away)- a real luxury- Larry from Minore Hi all, Do you remember what you were listening to when you made your favorite stained glass piece? April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 11:51:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGrL3-0000Wma; Fri, 25 Oct 96 11:50 PDT X-Path: OnlineToday.Com!tbiegler From: Terry Biegler To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to Work By Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:50:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199610251850.NAA23981@online.OnlineToday.Com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 11:13 AM 10/25/96 -0700, you wrote: >Personally- I like to play something like Liszt, Mozart or similar while >I work- and turn the volume up (nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away)- >a real luxury- Larry from Minore > > >Hi all, > >Do you remember what you were listening to when you made your favorite >stained glass piece? April >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > I always listen to Pink Floyd when working. It inspires me like no other music, especially my Wish You Were Here cd, Shine On You Crazy Diamond in particular. Terry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 14:13:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGtYH-00014Ha; Fri, 25 Oct 96 14:12 PDT X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu (Kathe R. McDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to Work By Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199610252111.OAA12122@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I like listening to the Dead. I was a child of the 60's....I too appreciate Pink Floyd cranked up and classical as well. Kathe R. McDonald Office of Curricular Support "Aint no time to hate." J. Garcia 1995 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 14:59:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGuGZ-0001Aba; Fri, 25 Oct 96 14:58 PDT X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: Shirley Suter To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music To Work By Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 16:50:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct25.115055.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Another child of the 60's here!!!! Turn up the Floyd!!! Crank up The Dead loud enough for Jerry G. to hear it in heaven!!! Today is a Genesis, Eric Clapton and Bob Marley Day. If I'm not dancing while I'm working, the glass ain't happy!!! My theory: If the music's too loud....you're too darned old!!!! Dancing with the glass and the cows, Shirley Suter :) Grapeland, Tx. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 15:07:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGuOz-0000Fba; Fri, 25 Oct 96 15:06 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Music to Drive By Date: 25 Oct 96 18:05:00 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct25.2250.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I always listen to Pink Floyd when working. It inspires me like no other >music, especially my Wish You Were Here cd, Shine On You Crazy Diamond in >particular. Terry, Play "The Wall" and I'll come visit. I pop the CD into the player if I'm doing any long distance driving and crank it up! Wish I had a multi-CD player, though, since it's two disks. Mahler's "Kindertotenlieder" is another fave ... or Mozart's "Requiem," also loud. Guess my tastes are kinda across the map, eh? Albert __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 15:52:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGv6d-0001A0a; Fri, 25 Oct 96 15:51 PDT X-Path: cetlink.net!karlp From: "KARL L. PREISACH" To: Subject: Music to work by... Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:43:49 -0400 Message-ID: <199610252251.SAA13493@moltar.cetlink.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Yuns (a Pittsburgh expression), Also a child of the 60's. I enjoy the Beatles White Album, Jethro Tull (Benefit or Aqualung) and anything by Emerson Lake and Palmer (First album, Trilogy or Brain Salad Surgery). And of course most anything by Joplin or Hendrix. If the music is rockin', don't come knockin'! "Have you ever been experienced? Well I am" Karl P in SC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 18:56:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGxyO-0000NRa; Fri, 25 Oct 96 18:55 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to Work By Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 02:26:55 +0000 Message-ID: <199610260153.CAA25386@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Personally- I like to play something like Liszt, Mozart or similar while I work- and turn the volume up (nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away)- a real luxury- Larry from Minore Hi all, Do you remember what you were listening to when you made your favorite stained glass piece? April ---- When I made the Dolphin (the one on my WEB-page), my loudspeakers were blaring out Vivaldi's guitarconcerto; when I made 6 panels in a chapel of a Catholic boarding school to commemorate a rather excentric benefactress, but one who had been quite a remarkable lady in her time, I played One of Vivaldi's Glorias. Shostakovich's Piano Concertos Nos 1 & 2 are also firm favourites of mine. The slow movements from both of these totally "sends" me. When I'm experimenting, I dip back into my Swedish roots for musical "help". "Fiddly" bits and akward cuts are greatly helped by Bach, who also helps me when I'm sitting staring at a design that I have just started or am not happy with. ...my 2 cents worth.... Elisabetth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 18:56:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vGxyO-0000m9a; Fri, 25 Oct 96 18:55 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Newsgroup Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 02:26:54 +0000 Message-ID: <199610260153.CAA25383@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Wow!!! Thanks everybody for helping this "computer nerd" find her way through the Internet. ...And no... don't think I'll bother with the "naughty" sites, ... thanks all the same (Someone must obviously had had a "peep", if they could actually come up with membership fees for me!! ;-) ...No Names! ) Got dragged off by some friends tonight to a Greek Taverna. The food was great, but Jeez, you should have seen the belly-dancer who appeared at about midnight. She made us really cringe so much, we just ended up laughing. Phew, what a way to earn a living - especially if you can't dance... I think I'll stick to stained glass.... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 22:32:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vH1ME-00017La; Fri, 25 Oct 96 22:32 PDT X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Cutting irridized glass Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 00:47:13 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct26.44713.0> References: <<199610260153.CAA25386@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I have a question about cutting irridized glass. I think I remember reading not to cut on the irridized side, but what do you do with a textured piece such as an irridized granite? I don't want to damage my cutter. Isn't glass always irridized on the smooth side? Thought I'd better ask before I get some. Thanks, Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Oct 25 23:33:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vH2JA-00004pa; Fri, 25 Oct 96 23:33 PDT X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: Shirley Suter To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting irridized glass Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 01:26:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct25.202612.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi Jerri & the rest of the gang! I have personally cut at least a zillion miles of irridized glass on the irridized side and have had absolutely no problems with it damaging my cutter. I do have one suggestion if you are new to irridized. When grinding it, use a worn portion of your grinder head. If you have recently re-positioned your grinder head and it is fresh and sharp, it will tend to chip away the irridized edge of the glass and looks unsightly if you are using a thin foil on the project. I do this same thing when I am grinding dichroic glass! Have a day! Shirley Suter Grapeland, Tx. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 26 06:30:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vH8oA-0000lYa; Sat, 26 Oct 96 06:29 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to Work By Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 13:29:38 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct26.132938.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 09:11 PM 10/25/96 +0000, you wrote: >I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I like listening to the Dead. I was a >child of the 60's....I too appreciate Pink Floyd cranked up and classical >as well. > >Kathe R. McDonald My two cents worth: 60's ROCK! Doors, Dead, Hendrix, JJ, Beatles and Stones, Clapton, any of these guys. But, because I'm trying to run a respectable retail operation, I have to keep the volume down. Later artists also worth mentioning: Stevie Ray Vaughn, Led Zepplin, Eagles, ........... and even Hootie! Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 26 06:58:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vH9F6-0000fna; Sat, 26 Oct 96 06:57 PDT X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: WC problems Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 08:22:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct26.42239.0> References: <<9610141251.AA02201@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk I have never had to mail order from WC because we live close enough to drive up whenever is necessary, so I can't reply to that. As a **store** they are great! Everything is displayed so that it is easy to see/find. The help is pleasant and after one visit remembered me by name! But the winner item of the store is the way the hobby sheets are displayed. They are in bookshelf like arrangements with each kind of glass in its own compartment. Above each compartment is about a 3"x 5" sample of the glass with a light behind it!! And they are arranged mostly by color. So everybody's reds are together, and everybody's greens, etc. It makes choosing a glass really easy...well, if you can get past the choice overload matter...;-} They also have an amazing collection of things/panels/lamps/suncatchers/everything under the sun on display. They have several TV's around with comfortable chairs and it is very easy to arrange to be able to watch a video from their collection for no charge! It doesn't help the people outside the area, but if you live within driving distance of Allentown, it is worth the trip. Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 26 07:50:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHA4M-0000hMa; Sat, 26 Oct 96 07:50 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!104344.622 From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM> To: Bungi Subject: Music to work to Date: 26 Oct 96 10:45:49 EDT Message-ID: <1996Oct26.144549.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Depends on my mood, but some of the stuff I listen to: Classical music: almost anything but particularly choral works like Gregorian chant, Chanticleer, Kronos Quartet, J.S. Bach, Ralph V. Williams, Alan Hovahness, John Adams, etc. And even my own CD - "Gregorian Heritage" recorded by the group I sing with, Voces Novae Et Antiquae (shameless plus). And of course, Philip Glass (sorry, I just couldn't resist this pun). Pop: k.d. lang, Seal, Clannad (lots of Clannad), Joni Mitchell, the Police, Beatles, Peter Gabriel Jazz: Billie Holiday, Saturday Night Live Band, Sharri Winston Enjoy!...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 26 10:02:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHC6m-0000g8a; Sat, 26 Oct 96 10:01 PDT X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to Work By Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 10:36:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct26.33641.0> References: <<1996Oct25.41322.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk April Paine wrote: > > Personally- I like to play something like Liszt, Mozart or similar while > I work- and turn the volume up (nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away)- > a real luxury- Larry from Minore > > Hi all, > > Do you remember what you were listening to when you made your favorite > stained glass piece? April > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi, I was listening to "Middle Aged Woman Blues" by Sapphire. I highly recommend their album (Alligator label). Mostly, though, I tune into our local NPR station and their programs are ususally what I want to listen to, from classic to jazz to native. Thanks for asking, T. in Montana ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 26 11:09:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHD9k-0000fma; Sat, 26 Oct 96 11:08 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting irridized glass Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 14:07:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Oct26.10752.0> References: <<1996Oct26.44713.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerri M Roey wrote: > > Hi, > > I have a question about cutting irridized glass. I think I > remember reading not to cut on the irridized side, but what do you do > with a textured piece such as an irridized granite? I don't want to > damage my cutter. Isn't glass always irridized on the smooth side? > Thought I'd better ask before I get some. > > Thanks, Jerri > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass just cut it on the smoothest side, irridized stuff won't hurt the cutter, i think they may have said that because there's always a possibilty that you may chip the glass, but that mostly happens when grinding. sometimes i wish they did coat it on the rough side, for certain effects. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 26 14:53:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHGec-0000W0a; Sat, 26 Oct 96 14:52 PDT X-Path: nethawk.com!1091 From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 17:52:35 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All, I need your expertise. I just finished two 'Old English Lanterns' from the Lanterns for Home and Garden pattern book. For those of you who haven't seen the pattern, each side or door consists of 5 pieces: a 1" border of 4 pieces surrounding a 3 x 7.5" clear piece. The pattern calls for initial assembly of the sides and door and then addition of cross hatching on the clear center glass for decoration which is done with 7/32 black backed copper foil. All went well and looked terrific I used green and clear waterglass on one and blue glue chip and clear waterglass on the other. After final assembly, while doing the initial cleaning, I realized that several of the clear pieces had cracks running basically along the lines of the cross hatching. I also previously made another lantern of the same pattern but did not use cross hatching decor and there was no cracked glass. Did the heat from final assembly transfer somehow to the cross hatching??? Before you wonder if I allowed everything to cool down before cleaning, yes, I did . Also, the pieces were not forced together in any way. I really do like the cross hatch effect but sure don't want to construct another until I know what caused my problem. Thanks in advance. Sue 1091@nethawk.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Oct 26 19:55:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHLNA-0000SYa; Sat, 26 Oct 96 19:54 PDT X-Path: sympatico.ca!taylor_buckner From: "H. Taylor Buckner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Band Saw Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 22:54:20 -0400 Message-ID: <199610270254.WAA23421@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Here's a follow-up to my problem with the band saw that threw so much water and glass powder onto the glass surface that I couldn't see where I was cutting. Shyguy posted a suggestion to use an aquarium air pump to blow the water out of the way. I bought one on sale for $40.00 Cdn. and hooked it up. IT WORKS!! Thanks a million! Jennifer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 07:11:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHWqC-0000Kca; Sun, 27 Oct 96 07:09 PST X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Music to work by Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 11:14:18 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.31418.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi all, Thanks for all the feedback on "music to work by" seems like we all have something in common. Pink Folyd could possibly achieve the same state as Gregorian Chants. I also listen to James Taylor, Valvaldi and Baroque music. April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 07:11:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHWrO-0000Sma; Sun, 27 Oct 96 07:10 PST X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Terrarium patterns/came supplier Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 11:15:35 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.31535.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi all, Does anyone know of a pattern book for terrariums? I'm also looking for a bulk supplier for came? April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 08:16:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHXsa-0000xPa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 08:16 PST X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: "B. J. Snell" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 11:15:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2.2.16.19961027112226.090fa28a@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk , or there's a >soldering iron company on the net that has a technical section for such >questions. They've been most helpful to me even though their irons are >designed for electrical soldering, on circuit boards and such. Good >luck, T. Dear T. Thanks for this information, can you tell me what the net address is for the soldering iron company that you referred to? TIA Barbara J. Snell bjs10@cornell.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 08:28:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHY4C-0000xTa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 08:28 PST X-Path: ix.netcom.com!vnunit1 From: vnunit1@ix.netcom.com (RICK D VAUGHN) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to work by... Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 08:27:53 -0800 Message-ID: <199610271627.IAA03243@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm a west coast kid...Give me some of the local band HEART (the good old stuff from before the Bebe le Strange album) and I'm in fat city! Also do the classics- the Cannon in D Major by Pachabel preformed by the Canadian Brass up loud is one of my f favorites! (makes the neighbors wonder) My favorite story for all time has got to be the day that my teenage (16) daughter came down and told me to turn down the stereo...the music was too loud! Teresa V Color It Glass! "Baracuda" by Heart ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 08:35:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHYBS-0000Waa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 08:35 PST X-Path: ix.netcom.com!vnunit1 From: vnunit1@ix.netcom.com (RICK D VAUGHN) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting irridized glass Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 08:35:23 -0800 Message-ID: <199610271635.IAA07138@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Hi, > > I have a question about cutting irridized glass. I think I >remember reading not to cut on the irridized side, but what do you do >with a textured piece such as an irridized granite? I don't want to >damage my cutter. Isn't glass always irridized on the smooth side? >Thought I'd better ask before I get some. > >Thanks, Jerri The reason people are told not to cut on the irridized side is that it is more difficult to control the cutting process and the score is not as clean. However,the biggest problem with marking and cutting on the irridized side is that many of the markers used for transferring the pattern to the glass destroy the irridized finish. Teresa V Color It Glass! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 08:41:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHYFJ-00010oa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 08:39 PST X-Path: lodz.pdi.net!michu-g From: "=?Windows-1250?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" To: Subject: Re: Music To Work By Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 18:36:22 +0100 Message-ID: <199610271639.RAA30659@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Another child of 60's but with a twist towards jazz. Rock is fine while working with glass-groups like Blood Sweat & Tears, Chicago and alikes suites me well played loud especialy while grinding. Oposite with designing-than it's more inspiring jazz-Coltrane,M.Davies, Keith Jarret and classic like Chopin,Tschaikovski and other "moodies". For glass choosing there's nothing better than Ch.Corea-G.Burton "Cristal silence". How many faces one can have? How about reverse ,inside sides of each? Greg=20 ---------- > From: Shirley Suter > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Music To Work By > Date: 25 pa=9Fdziernika 1996 22:50 >=20 > Another child of the 60's here!!!! Turn up the Floyd!!! Crank up The > Dead loud enough for Jerry G. to hear it in heaven!!! Today is a > Genesis, Eric Clapton and Bob Marley Day. If I'm not dancing while = I'm > working, the glass ain't happy!!! >=20 > My theory: If the music's too loud....you're too darned old!!!! >=20 > Dancing with the glass and the cows, > Shirley Suter :) > Grapeland, Tx. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 09:07:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHYgF-0000kra; Sun, 27 Oct 96 09:07 PST X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Looking for Peep-Hole Material Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 17:07:14 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.17714.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All, I have a request to do a door insert panel with a peep hole. The pattern is ala Frank Lloyd Wright with contrasting clear textures so I can design it to accommodate a peep hole in some unobtrusive location. But, I am wondering if there is some material, other than the traditional peep hole from the local hardware, that would be less obvious. I have looked at a number of jewels, but all seem to provide two-way viewing. Two-way mirror would allow someone outside to look into the house when the lights are on and the customer wants total privacy. Any ideas? One thought I have is to use 3 or 4 peep holes in the pattern ..... like jewels. My thinking is that one peep hole may be obvious, but several (if placed asthetically in the pattern) may not be so obvious. Any comments on this approach? Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 10:00:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHZV5-00011fa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 09:59 PST X-Path: execpc.com!kshawkey From: Curt & Karen Shawkey To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Diegel Foiler Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 12:00:19 -0600 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961027180019.006829c4@mail.execpc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I saw advertised in the "Stained Glass News" #33 on page 16, the Diegel Foiler. My glass shop does not handle it nor is it in any of their catalogs. Does anyone out there know where I can get one and how much do they cost? My friend has one and says its so much better than any other type of foilers. I welcome anyones thoughts and information on this. The ad says its made by Hoevel Manufacturing. Karen Check out the webpage for "The Westport Squares" http://www.execpc.com/~kshawkey/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 10:11:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHZgH-0000Wza; Sun, 27 Oct 96 10:11 PST X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Diegel Foiler/Inland Foiler Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 13:08:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.8853.0> References: <<2.2.32.19961027180019.006829c4@mail.execpc.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Curt & Karen Shawkey wrote: > > I saw advertised in the "Stained Glass News" #33 on page 16, the Diegel > Foiler. My glass shop does not handle it nor is it in any of their > catalogs. Does anyone out there know where I can get one and how much do > they cost? My friend has one and says its so much better than any other > type of foilers. I welcome anyones thoughts and information on this. The > ad says its made by Hoevel Manufacturing. > I used this foiler at the convention in June, and was not impressed with it's features..the quality may be better than Inland's but Inland's foiler does another step by pushing the foil up on the sides. You still have to burnish, but it eliminates me from slicing my finger on the foil edge the way I used to. And the difference in the price is astronomical! Around $55.00 for the Hoevel, or $20.00 for the Inland. I do not usually like Inland products, but in this case I believe that the additional features and the lower price are really an incentive to use this particular model. As with all Inland products, it takes a little adjusting to get the wheels rolling smoothly, and practice to get the foil centered, but I LOVE my Inland foiler. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 11:13:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHadc-0000B0a; Sun, 27 Oct 96 11:12 PST X-Path: indy.net!jlaws From: "James R. Laws" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Looking for Peep-Hole Material Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 14:10:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.91054.0> References: <<1996Oct27.17714.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mike peck wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have a request to do a door insert panel with a peep hole. The pattern is > ala Frank Lloyd Wright with contrasting clear textures so I can design it to > accommodate a peep hole in some unobtrusive location. But, I am wondering > if there is some material, other than the traditional peep hole from the > local hardware, that would be less obvious. I have looked at a number of > jewels, but all seem to provide two-way viewing. Two-way mirror would allow > someone outside to look into the house when the lights are on and the > customer wants total privacy. Any ideas? > > One thought I have is to use 3 or 4 peep holes in the pattern ..... like > jewels. My thinking is that one peep hole may be obvious, but several (if > placed asthetically in the pattern) may not be so obvious. Any comments on > this approach? > > Mike Peck > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Sorry I can't help Mike but you did give me a bit of a shock. When my mail was listed in Netscape Mail your subject was shortened to read "Looking for Peep-Hole Mate.." I thought the group had suddenly taken a whole new turn while I was on vacation. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 11:22:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHamR-0000gKa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 11:21 PST X-Path: indy.net!jlaws From: "James R. Laws" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to Work By Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 14:20:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.9203.0> References: <<1996Oct25.41322.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April Paine wrote: > > Personally- I like to play something like Liszt, Mozart or similar while > I work- and turn the volume up (nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away)- > a real luxury- Larry from Minore > > Hi all, > > Do you remember what you were listening to when you made your favorite > stained glass piece? April > ---- I frequently put on classical when I work but one of the wonderful things about stained glass is that I don't hear anything while I am working. I have been doing glass as a hobby for about ten years. I have a very high stress job and I do stained glass because I have to concentrate so hard that I can't think of anything else. I am able to shut out the world and just enjoy. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 12:10:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHbXV-0000xja; Sun, 27 Oct 96 12:10 PST X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to Work By Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 12:06:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1996Oct27.4631.0> References: <<1996Oct27.9203.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Everyone. Is no one going to 'fess up to County and Western? What about, "You can't have your Edith and Kate to?" or something more of a concern such as, "Does your Bubble Gum lose its Flavor After Being on the Bedpost Overnight?" No, I am not serious. Just thinking I enjoy reading books to listening to 60's music. Or was the whole play to find out if stained glass folk were of class or a certain age group? PJ from CA. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 12:19:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHbfs-0000iXa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 12:19 PST X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Buying bulk came Date: 27 Oct 96 13:51:17 EST Message-ID: <1996Oct27.185117.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Does anyone know of a pattern book for terrariums? I'm also looking for a >bulk supplier for came? April I'm not sure what you mean by "bulk" (a ton at a time?), but you could try buying direct from the manufacturer ... I know several large studios that buy their came that way. Here are some numbers: Mayfield Manufacturing Canada Metal Company Limited P.O. Box 19397 721 Eastern Avenue Birmingham AL 35219 Toronto ON M4M 1E6 Canada ......Phone: (205) 942-4242 in Alab ......Phone: (416) 465-4684 ......F ax: (205) 945-8704 ......F ax: (416) 465-8053 Canfield Quality Solder Cascade Lead Products, Ltd. 1000 Brighton Street 1614 West 75th Avenue Union NJ 07083 Vancouver BC V6P 6G2 Canada ......Phone: (908) 688-5050 ......Phone: (604) 261-8884 ......F ax: (908) 688-6438 ......F ax: Chicago Metallic Coran-Sholes Industries 4849 S. Austin Avenue 509 E. 2nd Street Chicago IL 60638 Boston MA 02127 ......Phone: (708) 563-4600 ......Phone: (617) 268-3780 ......F ax: (708) 563-4552 ......F ax: (617) 268-0344 DHD Metals, Inc. Fry Metals, Inc. 1607-C General Arts Rd./PO Box 165 6th Avenue at 41st Street Conyers GA 30207 Altoona PA 16602 ......Phone: (404) 760-9404 ......Phone: (814) 946-1611 ......F ax: (404) 760-9032 ......F ax: (814) 944-8094 G.A. Avril Lead Products Gardiner Solder Company PO Box 12050 PO Box 488 Cincinnati OH 45212 Western Springs IL 60558 ......Phone: (513) 731-5133 ......Phone: (312) 847-0100 ......F ax: (513) 731-5135 ......F ax: (312) 847-2314 Hondo Lead Manufacturing Company Prism Glassworks, Inc. 1018 E. Libra PO Box 482 Tempe AZ 85283 McFarland WI 53558 ......Phone: (602) 894-3460 ......Phone: (608) 838-9878 ......F ax: ......F ax: (608) 838-6061 R. Lang Company Taracorp Industries Inc. 8521 Thys Court 1200 16th Street Sacramento CA 95828 Granite City IL 62040 ......Phone: (916) 387-1073 ......Phone: (800) 851-3300 ......F ax: (916) 387-0767 ......F ax: (618) 451-9310 Victory White Metal Company Wensley Metal Products Co. 6100 Roland Avenue 1445 Osage Street Cleveland OH 44127 Denver CO 80204 ......Phone: (216) 271-1400 ......Phone: (303) 623-1341 ......F ax: ......F ax: (303) 623-1341 White Metal Rolling & Stamping Willard Industries 4501 Circle 75 Pky NW #F6300 101 New Bern St., PO Box 11815 Atlanta GA 30339 Charlotte NC 28220 ......Phone: (603) 445-5511 ......Phone: (704) 523-1230 ......F ax: (603) 445-2153 ......F ax: (704) 527-8580 Beveldine/Camecraft 12282 Monarch Garden Grove CA 92641 ......Phone: (714) 379-9072 ......F ax: (714) 379-9075 Hope that's helpful. Albert __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 13:14:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHcWH-00010da; Sun, 27 Oct 96 13:13 PST X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Glass Wholesale Suppliers/manufacturers Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 16:18:05 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.8185.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Thanks Albert! You wouldn't happen to have a ready made list where all you have to do is push the button like that for glass too? Wouldn't want to put you to any trouble but I'm looking for whsle glass suppliers too. April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 14:01:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHdGy-0000o7a; Sun, 27 Oct 96 14:01 PST X-Path: erols.com!stndglas From: stndglas@erols.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Dragonfly software Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 18:05:21 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.10521.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm thinking of buying the glass design software from Dragonfly.Has anyone used it? Does it do what it claims? Would you recommend it? Thanks. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 14:54:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHe5s-00012za; Sun, 27 Oct 96 14:54 PST X-Path: indy.net!jlaws From: "James R. Laws" To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: Electro Plating Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 17:52:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.125218.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I frequently see sun catchers that have been electro plated. Where do you find such equipment? What does it cost. Can anyone describe the process? Thanks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 15:19:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHeU6-0000SPa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 15:19 PST X-Path: scv.net!fullspec From: Kay Allen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Terrarium patterns/came supplier Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 15:17:35 -0800 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961027231735.006bd824@mail.scv.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi April, I found this book listed in one of my catalogs: Patterns for Terrariums and Planters by Wardell. Hope this helps. Kay > > >Does anyone know of a pattern book for terrariums? I'm also looking for a >bulk supplier for came? April >---- > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 16:07:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHfEo-0000dfa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 16:07 PST X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dragonfly software Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 19:12:14 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.111214.0> References: <<1996Oct27.10521.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk stndglas@erols.com wrote: > > I'm thinking of buying the glass design software from Dragonfly.Has > anyone used it? Does it do what it claims? Would you recommend it? Hi, Check out the posts over the last month. I bought it. I love it and would highly recommend it. The tutorial is very easy to follow. The program is designed so you don't have to be a rocket scientist to use it. It's application to stained glass is the best I've found. The company plans to upgrade on it's shortcomings ie..exporting, importing. The owner is prompt in responding to questions and is there for techinical support. April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 16:11:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHfHw-0000ida; Sun, 27 Oct 96 16:10 PST X-Path: sm1.gte.net!leestat From: leestat To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Cutting tip Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 20:08:19 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.12819.0> References: <<1996Oct27.125218.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Lee Boe Precedence: bulk Just a tip on cutting-I have a movable lamp w/100 watt bulb above my cutting table. Position the lamp a few inches above the glass surface to warm the glass, then move lamp to cut. The warm glass scores and breaks much better, even fancy cuts. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 16:13:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHfJn-0000jca; Sun, 27 Oct 96 16:12 PST X-Path: limestone.kosone.com!dagenais From: rodrigue dagenais To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Electro Plating Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 07:20:23 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct26.232023.0> References: <<1996Oct27.125218.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: student Precedence: bulk James R. Laws wrote: > > I frequently see sun catchers that have been electro plated. Where do > you find such equipment? What does it cost. Can anyone describe the > process? Thanks > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassI'm not too sure for the process or equipment but try STEVE SCHAEFER Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHfrR-00010ta; Sun, 27 Oct 96 16:47 PST X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering iron problem Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 17:13:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.101349.0> References: <<2.2.16.19961027112226.090fa28a@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk B. J. Snell wrote: Dear T. > Thanks for this information, can you tell me what the net address > is for the soldering iron company that you referred to? TIA > Barbara J. Snell > bjs10@cornell.edu > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Hi Barbara, The notation I have on the top of a document titled, "Metcal Technical Note: Extending Soldering Iron Tip Life" by Edwin OH, Product Manager and Doug Wilkerson, Tech. Svcs. Mgr. is -- http://www.metcal.com/tchnotes/tipliftx.html Hope that helps, T. in Montana ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 17:13:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHgFz-0000Vsa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 17:12 PST X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 20:12:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.15127.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sue Eiszler wrote: > > Hi All, > I need your expertise. I just finished two 'Old English Lanterns' > from the Lanterns for Home and Garden pattern book. For those of you who > haven't seen the pattern, each side or door consists of 5 pieces: a 1" > border of 4 pieces surrounding a 3 x 7.5" clear piece. The pattern calls > for initial assembly of the sides and door and then addition of cross > hatching on the clear center glass for decoration which is done with 7/32 > black backed copper foil. All went well and looked terrific I used green > and clear waterglass on one and blue glue chip and clear waterglass on the > other. After final assembly, while doing the initial cleaning, I realized > that several of the clear pieces had cracks running basically along the > lines of the cross hatching. I also previously made another lantern of the > same pattern but did not use cross hatching decor and there was no cracked > glass. > Did the heat from final assembly transfer somehow to the cross > hatching??? Before you wonder if I allowed everything to cool down before > cleaning, yes, I did . Also, the pieces were not forced together in any > way. I really do like the cross hatch effect but sure don't want to > construct another until I know what caused my problem. > Thanks in advance. > > Sue > 1091@nethawk.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass my guess it would be thermal shock. since you did an overlay, the heat is too much and could crack the glass. if it was only one line it could be prevented, but since there was probably quite a few lines, there was simply too much heat. next time, either do one line at a line carefully, letting each line cool before doing the next. or cut seperate pieces. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 17:22:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHgOn-00012La; Sun, 27 Oct 96 17:21 PST X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Looking for Peep-Hole Material Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 20:21:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.152118.0> References: <<1996Oct27.17714.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mike peck wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have a request to do a door insert panel with a peep hole. The pattern is > ala Frank Lloyd Wright with contrasting clear textures so I can design it to > accommodate a peep hole in some unobtrusive location. But, I am wondering > if there is some material, other than the traditional peep hole from the > local hardware, that would be less obvious. I have looked at a number of > jewels, but all seem to provide two-way viewing. Two-way mirror would allow > someone outside to look into the house when the lights are on and the > customer wants total privacy. Any ideas? > > One thought I have is to use 3 or 4 peep holes in the pattern ..... like > jewels. My thinking is that one peep hole may be obvious, but several (if > placed asthetically in the pattern) may not be so obvious. Any comments on > this approach? > > Mike Peck > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i suppose one idea is to do a double panel (if it's small), because the peep hole is so long. maybe you can pop out the lens and use that. or use normal glass, and put a small door on it which would be opened from the viewers side. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 17:30:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHgWb-0001A6a; Sun, 27 Oct 96 17:29 PST X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Electro Plating Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 20:29:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.152922.0> References: <<1996Oct27.125218.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk James R. Laws wrote: > > I frequently see sun catchers that have been electro plated. Where do > you find such equipment? What does it cost. Can anyone describe the > process? Thanks > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i looked into it, it's easier to get it professionally done. the problem lies when you have to coat it with copper and the only one that will stick to solder is cyanide based, so it's pretty hazardas to work with. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 17:43:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHgj6-0000XDa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 17:42 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to Work By Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 02:13:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199610280140.BAA29982@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Oh Honestly Peggy!! :-)) "Does your Bubble Gum lose its Flavor After Being on the Bedpost Overnight?" How about: "I'm gonna wash that lamp right out of my hair! or "Flux gets in my eyes" or "Stand by your fan" I myself may be "ancient" (old enough NOT to care!!), but realized that there was an awful lot of music I forgot to include myself, (traditional jazz [Billy Halliday, Ella, Duke Ellington ,Satchmo et al), Rag, Scott Joplin, soul, soft soul and much, much else). So much Music that is "musical"..... I think one's musical tastes and development is not so much conditioned to "age", as it is to one's early musical exposure. The same is true - I believe - as regards one's visual tastes and development. In my own stained glass, I am obsessed with 1) light, 2) colours and 3) simplicity , function and fluidity of line. All of this, I can directly find explanations for from my Swedish back-ground and upbringing. I may live to be 100 (God forbid! - Yet my grandmother lived until she was 104!!), and I will probably NEVER lose my Swedish perspectives or frame of references...... (Oh Elisabeth!! , say my friends in sheer frustration; you are so SWEDISH!!!) My musical development is therefore also a product of my own early exposure. It has nothing to do with "age". In Britain we have a radio programme called "Dessert Island Discs". It's been running for about 40 years, and still going strong. The idea is, that a "public figure" chooses 10 discs to take with them to a dessert island and with which they may have to survive for the rest of their lives, ( + 1 book in addition to the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare + 1 single luxury [which is restricted so as not to aid and abet escape]). At 50+ that I now am, I know exactly what music would set me thinking, would set me dreaming, would set me creating, would set me singing, would set me meditating and would set me tripping the light fantastic across the sandy beaches...... (and what a silly sight THAT would be!) But AGE??? Oh no, not ME!! I think I must have managed to cram 4 life-times into my 50+ years and I don't regret ANY of them; if anything, I am probably "younger" than most of the teenagers growing up around me. Age is the question of "mind over matter"; If you don't mind - it doesn't matter!!! ..... And if Music be the food of Love..... PLEASE play on...... Howzat Peggy....? :-) Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 17:43:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHgj6-0000XVa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 17:42 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Looking for Peep-Hole Material Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 02:13:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199610280140.BAA29979@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi James, Please, may I be your "Peep-Hole Mate" ...? ;-) Sorry, just couldn't resist.... What with belly-dancers, "naughty" sites and belly-dancers, what is the stained glass world coming to!! ...?? Elisabeth ('n definitely NOT Toby... he wouldnt approve!) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 17:43:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHgjM-0000a2a; Sun, 27 Oct 96 17:43 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dragonfly software Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 02:13:53 +0000 Message-ID: <199610280140.BAA29988@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Who are you, and what are you looking for from a dedicated stained glass soft-ware design programme? Dragonfly have developed a design software programme specifically for stained glass. As such, it has some rather helpful and "neat" features. They are also excellent in providing "user guidance" and "after-sales guidance". Initially, their software was designed for use with Microsoft Windows 95; in the last 6 months they revived a project of a version for Windows 3..... I am located in the UK and was requested to "evaluate" this last mentioned version. I run Windows 3.11 for Work Groups" . I am a complete and utter "Computer nerd", know about stained glass, but not a lot about computers, software or computer "drawing software". >From April 96 until 31 August 96 I must have spent about 3-4 hours daily "nit-picking" with Dragonfly and making their life pretty tough. I had every question answered within maximum 12 hours, hence on communication level - in my grading - they score 10 out of 10. They DO have their limitations, but - from my own experience and of such reported back to me by other stained glass people - Dragonfly is totally up-front about these, with open and above board proposals and plans for the future. Their approach to stained glass is really a stained glass approach - rather than a universal DRAWING approach (e.g. Corel.....) Dragonfly is a bunch of computer specialists who have happened to fall in love with stained glass and decided to concentrate their soft-ware to be dedicated to the unique aspects of stained glass designing. The POTENTIAL of such software is enormous, though - from their point of view - initially not desperately commercial.Their prices are very reasoonable, hence I feel it's not a wasted investment. Their ONE weakness is that you cannot copy your own sketches, drawings onto the programme. But even this, they say they are working on to change.. As previously posted, I have my notes & correspondence filed and "pull-out-able". If you have specific questions, spell them out to me and I will endeavour to answer or make Dragonfly answer. I am known as a bit of a cynic and a Devil's Advocate. I also call a spade a shovel. Yet, I have been impressed with Dragonfly. Let me know how you get on. Let me know how else I can help... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 17:43:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHgjQ-0000S8a; Sun, 27 Oct 96 17:43 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Looking for Peep-Hole Material Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 02:13:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199610280140.BAA29997@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Mike (Peck), Interestingly enough, I have found some iridized glass providing this 1-way only view. There is also an iridized "clear" glass (can't remember who makes it...). It may be worth your while to experiment with this type of glass. Let me know how you get on, as it is an interesting problem/idea... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 17:55:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHgur-00011fa; Sun, 27 Oct 96 17:55 PST X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Looking for Peep-Hole Material Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 20:54:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct27.155424.0> References: <<199610280140.BAA29997@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Hi Mike (Peck), > Interestingly enough, I have found some iridized glass providing this > 1-way only view. There is also an iridized "clear" glass (can't > remember who makes it...). > It may be worth your while to experiment with this type of glass. > Let me know how you get on, as it is an interesting problem/idea... > Elisabeth 'n Toby > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the iridized i think you might be thinking of might be bullseye matt iridesent. as long as you get it in clear that is. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 18:17:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHhGH-0000e0a; Sun, 27 Oct 96 18:17 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Case of the Cracking Glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 02:35:53 +0000 Message-ID: <199610280214.CAA03009@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Could be thermal shock. since you did an overlay, the heat is too much and could crack the glass. if it was only one line it could be prevented, but since there was probably quite a few lines, there was simply too much heat. next time, either do one line at a line carefully, letting each line cool before doing the next. or cut seperate pieces. ---Mike Savad Yes Mike, As so very often happens - you have taken the very words from my mouth.... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Oct 27 22:20:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHl3E-0001Aza; Sun, 27 Oct 96 22:19 PST X-Path: sympatico.ca!taylor_buckner From: "H. Taylor Buckner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Terrariums Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 01:19:28 -0500 Message-ID: <199610280619.BAA14049@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April, In addition to the "Patterns for Terrariums & Plants" by Randy & Judy Wardell, which Kay Allen mentioned, there is also "Stained Glass for Plants" by Luciano & Don Malmstrom, pub. by Hidden House, Palo Alto, Ca. In the back of this book there is a list of other books published by Hidden House including "Stained Glass Lamps & Terrariums", "Terrariums & Aquariums", and "The 29.95 Greenhouse". The Malmstrom book was published in 1977 so I'm not sure if you can still get it, or if Hidden House is still in existence. Good luck. Jennifer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 04:41:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHqz6-0000gka; Mon, 28 Oct 96 04:40 PST X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz From: llutz To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music To Work By Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:41:20 +1000 Message-ID: <1996Oct29.84120.0> References: <<199610271639.RAA30659@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Another child of 60's but with a twist towards jazz. > Rock is fine while working with glass-groups like Blood Sweat & Tears, > Chicago and alikes suites me well played loud especialy while grinding. > Oposite with designing-than it's more inspiring jazz-Coltrane,M.Davies, > Keith Jarret and classic like Chopin,Tschaikovski and other "moodies". > For glass choosing there's nothing better than Ch.Corea-G.Burton > "Cristal silence". Not to make this too long- I'm a day late on all this- I like a lot of the music mentioned (but not a jazz fan). However, if I put on something like the Beatles, I find the words start distracting me at times. Larry from Minore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 04:42:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHr0W-0000c1a; Mon, 28 Oct 96 04:41 PST X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Glass Wholesale Supplier Date: 28 Oct 96 07:39:58 EST Message-ID: <1996Oct28.123958.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Thanks Albert! You wouldn't happen to have a ready made list where >all you have to do is push the button like that for glass too? Wouldn't >want to put you to any trouble but I'm looking for whsle glass suppliers >too. April April, set your browser to http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ and click on "Resources," about halfway down the page. You'll find suppliers of glass in the listings. Albert __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 05:33:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHron-0000bAa; Mon, 28 Oct 96 05:33 PST X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to Work By Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 08:27:12 EST Message-ID: <961028.083121.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1996Oct25.41322.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk And what do your fluxy fingers do to your tapes, cds and players? I just like to put on an oldies station on the radio. Besides, my favorite music is mostly on record (I'm a 60's folkie) and the record player is in the dining room. By the way, after soldering, what leaves your fingers feeling fresh and clean when you wash up? -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 05:44:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHrzP-0000Vua; Mon, 28 Oct 96 05:44 PST X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Looking for Peep-Hole Material Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:43:12 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <9610281343.AA02220@crosfield.co.uk> References: <<1996Oct27.17714.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I have a request to do a door insert panel with a peep hole. [snip] > Two-way mirror would allow > someone outside to look into the house when the lights are on and the > customer wants total privacy. Any ideas? Basic optical theory: there's no such thing as one way glass/mirrors; if light can pass through in one direction, it can pass through just as esily in the other - so most so-called "one way" systems rely on the fact that the viewers side is dark while the other side is lit, with a very dark glass or (usually) semi-silvered mirror. That way, a small ammount of light passes from the lit side to the dark side, which is enough for someone on the dark side to see what's happening on the lit side, while from the lit side, any light coming through from the dark side is hidden by reflections from the lit side. Unfortunately, this works in reverse for a peephole where the inside is lit and the outside isn't - and in any case, there's no easy way to prevent people noticing a shadow on (or lights coming on behind) a backlit piece of glass. Two possible suggestions: either (1) arrange for the outside to be brightly lit (perhaps one of the PIR movement sensor security lights) and don't light the interior - then semisilvered or iridised glass might work, as in a normal "one way" system, or (2) Look for alternatives to a human peephole - for example, you can get some pretty small CCD video security cameras; these can be mounted externally or possibly behind a clear glass section at the edge of the panel. I've seen one with Infrared illumination built in (some IR LEDS, like a TV remote) that even works in total darkness (B&W picture) - I'm not sure how well glass transmits IR, so you might need to check that, but it should probably be OK. -Jerry -- _|_ Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) / | Hemel Hempstead, UK jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \_|_ jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) \__/ www.selune.demon.co.uk (soon) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 06:12:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHsPT-0000j0a; Mon, 28 Oct 96 06:11 PST X-Path: CompuServe.COM!104344.622 From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM> To: Bungi , "IGGA (Albert Lewis)" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Dragonfly software review Date: 28 Oct 96 09:07:43 EST Message-ID: <1996Oct28.14743.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I purchased Dragonfly software and have used it sporatically in the past two months. Here's some pros/cons I've gathered from my own experiences, as well as others on bungi.com and in the CompuServe Handcrafts/Glass forum who have also used it: Pros: o This software is specifically a stained glass drawing package, not a general drawing package like Corel Draw or Harvard Graphics. All features and functions are based on stained glass drawing requirements. o Good documentation. Clear, easy to understand manual and good on-line support through Dragonfly's web page. Questions are answered usually within the day. The support/development staff are very helpful. o Good tutorial. o Intuitive drawing features. A few basic shapes to learn and then you're off and designing. o The program automatically stretches/contracts joints and supporting lines when you reposition a part of the design. o Lines can be set to show different came thicknesses, etc. o Excellent grid. This works really well when you have to design to specific dimensions. You can have the grid positions in inches or milimeters, and the grid coordinates can be displayed all the time or hidden. You can place points at specific coordinates or by 'eyeballing' it. o You can draw your design at any size (good zoom features) and print it out at any size. The print drivers are excellent. If the design is larger than your paper size, it automatically splits the design so that all you have to do is tape it together. o Affordable pricing (around $149 US). Cons: o There are some important features not included. These are: - Text is non-existent. So you cannot include pattern letters, or layout signage with text. - Textures of glass (i.e. streaky, water, bubbles, etc.) not supported. - Does not support dashed, dotted, etc. line types. Only supports hairline type in solid mode. It would be more useful if you could have dashed/dotted lines to use as non-cutting reference lines (i.e. for text placement, multi-sheet placement guides for fusing, etch lines, etc.). - Cannot save file as standard graphic format types (i.e. .bmg, .jpg, .gif, etc.) for export into other graphic packages. However, you can insert the design by doing an "Edit", "Select All", "Copy" action, and then doing an "Edit", "Paste Special" function in another package (like MicroSoft Works in my case). - Only supports design of 2-D objects. No boxes, lamps, etc. can be designed, as far as I can tell. Maybe someone has had better luck with this. Next release: o I've heard Dragonfly is working on the problem on import/export standard graphic file formats. To me, this is its weakest point. I will be happy to see this included. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 08:27:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHuVw-0000gKa; Mon, 28 Oct 96 08:26 PST X-Path: aristotle.net!rwsmith From: Rebecca Smith To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Music to Work By Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:09:11 -0600 Message-ID: <2.2.16.19961028112922.22e759de@aristotle.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all: I like reading the different types of Music that makes the world go round. I turn on 50 and 60's Rock n' Roll. (Motown, Paul Revire and the Raiders, Creedence Clear Water Revival, Steppenwolf, John Sebastian and last be certainly not least the good ole downhome Blues.) Boy couldn't we all have a major jam session! Rebecca Smith (rwsmith@aristotle.net) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 08:38:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHugg-0000wJa; Mon, 28 Oct 96 08:37 PST X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Looking for Peep-Hole Material Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:18:22 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct28.161822.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Sorry I can't help Mike but you did give me a bit of a shock. When my >mail was listed in Netscape Mail your subject was shortened to read >"Looking for Peep-Hole Mate.." I thought the group had suddenly taken a >whole new turn while I was on vacation. Well, that certainly wasn't planned, but always happy to put a smile on your face! Mike (not Savad, I'm the other Mike) Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 08:43:12 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHukt-0000k2a; Mon, 28 Oct 96 08:41 PST X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!wrightk5 From: Kristen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to work to Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:44:39 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct28.44439.0> References: <<1996Oct26.144549.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk My music taste for any type of working situation is a random assortment of Irish/Scottish, Jazz, Blues, swing, hard rock or what ever mood music I need. I my put in the Blues Brothers, Swing Kids, Ashley MacIsaac (Scottish/Pop fiddle music), Irish Rovers, Aero Smith, Eric Clapton, and Louis Armstrong. Then I hit Random and get just the right blend of music I need. Even though I'm not a member of the 60's or 70's generation I even listen to the tunes of the previous times. I can't listen to too much of one type of music or I put it away for a bit before I can listen to it again. I, however, do not hear the music as I work, but when I take I break I like to hear music. Maybe I need the music to subconsciously motivate me. -- [ Kristen ] [ wrightk5@pilot.msu.edu ] [ ] [ I speak for my self and only represent everything that I am. ] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 08:50:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHusa-0000jsa; Mon, 28 Oct 96 08:49 PST X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!wrightk5 From: Kristen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: thank you Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:50:46 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct28.45046.0> References: <<1996Oct9.54536.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thank you for the suppliesrs addresses in you area. My dad only went to W-c and didn't bring my niece because he has no patience to hold her hand the hole time ( she is a rather active 3 year old). He did like going to w-c again. It is a change from the glass and supplies that we have here at Delphi ( I live in East Lansing). -- [ Kristen ] [ wrightk5@pilot.msu.edu ] [ ] [ I speak for my self and only represent everything that I am. ] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 08:59:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHv2N-0000Iua; Mon, 28 Oct 96 08:59 PST X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Toby Subject: Re: Music to Work By Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 08:53:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1996Oct28.05357.0> References: <<199610280140.BAA29982@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Toby: Good chuckle from "your" Country Western Titles. Are there others? I'll search out my old music and see what I can come up with. I do prefer to listen to audio books simply because working in SG and listening/reading are my ideal ways to spend life. PJ from CA. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 09:00:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHv21-0000iFa; Mon, 28 Oct 96 08:59 PST X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:27:24 +0000 Message-ID: <1996Oct28.162724.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 01:12 AM 10/28/96 +0000, you wrote: >Sue Eiszler wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> I need your expertise. I just finished two 'Old English Lanterns' >> from the Lanterns for Home and Garden pattern book. For those of you who >> haven't seen the pattern, each side or door consists of 5 pieces: a 1" >> border of 4 pieces surrounding a 3 x 7.5" clear piece. The pattern calls >> for initial assembly of the sides and door and then addition of cross >> hatching on the clear center glass for decoration which is done with 7/32 >> black backed copper foil. All went well and looked terrific I used green >> and clear waterglass on one and blue glue chip and clear waterglass on the >> other. After final assembly, while doing the initial cleaning, I realized >> that several of the clear pieces had cracks running basically along the >> lines of the cross hatching. I also previously made another lantern of the >> same pattern but did not use cross hatching decor and there was no cracked >> glass. >> Did the heat from final assembly transfer somehow to the cross >> hatching??? Before you wonder if I allowed everything to cool down before >> cleaning, yes, I did . Also, the pieces were not forced together in any >> way. I really do like the cross hatch effect but sure don't want to >> construct another until I know what caused my problem. >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Sue >> 1091@nethawk.com > >my guess it would be thermal shock. since you did an overlay, the heat >is too much and could crack the glass. if it was only one line it could >be prevented, but since there was probably quite a few lines, there was >simply too much heat. next time, either do one line at a line carefully, >letting each line cool before doing the next. or cut seperate pieces. > >---Mike Savad > Also, a cold, wet sponge underneath the piece while you solder will act as a heat sink and keep the glass a little cooler. Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 09:27:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHvSK-0000nGa; Mon, 28 Oct 96 09:26 PST X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Dragonfly Stained Glass Software Update Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:31:16 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct28.43116.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi all, I noticed an update on the Dragonfly site. They have now included the ability to use scanned images. Check it out http://www.dfly.com April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 11:28:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHxL2-00016ra; Mon, 28 Oct 96 11:27 PST X-Path: CompuServe.COM!104344.622 From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM> To: Bungi Subject: Re: Clean fingers Date: 28 Oct 96 14:22:05 EST Message-ID: <1996Oct28.19225.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dorothy Kalahan asked I like Sunshine dishwashing liquid. Cuts the grease, washes the glass, and gets my fingers really clean. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 13:49:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vHzXl-0000q9a; Mon, 28 Oct 96 13:48 PST X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to Work By and hand cleaner Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:03:25 EST Message-ID: <1996Oct28.21325.0> References: <<1996Oct25.41322.0>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I guess I'm the only one who listens to the baby monitor. >By the way, after soldering, what leaves your fingers feeling fresh >and clean when you wash up? I really like "Fast Orange". It comes in a gallon pump container for about $8.00 at SAM's. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 15:09:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vI0nm-0001CCa; Mon, 28 Oct 96 15:09 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dragonfly software review Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:39:59 +0000 Message-ID: <199610282306.XAA20667@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all, especially Christie Wood Christie, you did an excellent job on your summary review!! My experience with other makes of drawing programmes is very limited, which made it difficult for me to make any kind of comparisons. Interestingly enough, I brought up the subject with Dragonfly in June/July about not being able to print text into the drawings. But I don't know if this is something they will be working on. On the whole, I know it won't be a disaster, if I haven't got it. I find that I can use the "hairline" for outlining 3D-designs and using a slightly thicker line for the front lines that you can see. I have as late as this evening received an e-mail from Dragonfly, telling me that their scanning facility will be released this or next week and that CURRENT customers will receive a free up-date. I call that service..... That was the ONE only thing that "bugged" me about the Dragonfly package, as I am often out and about with a sketch-pad - or doodle on the back of damask serviettes..... ;-) As I have said before, I like the package and am glad that you have "crystallized" so eloquently its pros and cons. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 16:54:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vI2QP-00014Ca; Mon, 28 Oct 96 16:53 PST X-Path: nethawk.com!1091 From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 19:52:43 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>my guess it would be thermal shock. since you did an overlay, the heat >>is too much and could crack the glass. if it was only one line it could >>be prevented, but since there was probably quite a few lines, there was >>simply too much heat. next time, either do one line at a line carefully, >>letting each line cool before doing the next. or cut seperate pieces. >> >Also, a cold, wet sponge underneath the piece while you solder will act as a >heat sink and keep the glass a little cooler. Someone suggested today that the waterglass might be the problem...if I had used an even-surfaced glass, I might not have had the cracking???? The only trouble is that I really life the effect of the candle flickering on the waterglass... Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions. I'll let you know what works. Sue 1091@nethawk.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 17:15:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vI2l8-0000sca; Mon, 28 Oct 96 17:14 PST X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to Work By Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 20:13:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct28.151342.0> References: <<961028.083121.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > And what do your fluxy fingers do to your tapes, cds and players? I > just like to put on an oldies station on the radio. Besides, my > favorite music is mostly on record (I'm a 60's folkie) and the record > player is in the dining room. > By the way, after soldering, what leaves your fingers feeling fresh > and clean when you wash up? > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i use rubber gloves when soldering, so i don't get flux on my hands. normal soap should clean flux off of any other part of your body flux lands on...hands, face, and the like. flux is just iritating stuff. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 17:28:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vI2xg-00019Ra; Mon, 28 Oct 96 17:27 PST X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 20:26:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct28.152638.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sue Eiszler wrote: > > >>my guess it would be thermal shock. since you did an overlay, the heat > >>is too much and could crack the glass. if it was only one line it could > >>be prevented, but since there was probably quite a few lines, there was > >>simply too much heat. next time, either do one line at a line carefully, > >>letting each line cool before doing the next. or cut seperate pieces. > >> > >Also, a cold, wet sponge underneath the piece while you solder will act as a > >heat sink and keep the glass a little cooler. > > Someone suggested today that the waterglass might be the problem...if I had > used an even-surfaced glass, I might not have had the cracking???? The > only trouble is that I really life the effect of the candle flickering on > the waterglass... > > Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions. I'll let you know what works. > > Sue > 1091@nethawk.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass water glass is'nt all that fragile (as glass goes anyway), however if there was an internal flaw ithat could account for something, but not likley seeing that it was spectrum. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 18:20:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vI3mL-00010Ka; Mon, 28 Oct 96 18:19 PST X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dragonfly software Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:35:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct28.113523.0> References: <<199610280140.BAA29988@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Hi, > Who are you, and what are you looking for from a dedicated stained > glass soft-ware design programme? > Dragonfly have developed a design software programme specifically for > stained glass. As such, it has some rather helpful and "neat" > features. They are also excellent in providing "user guidance" and > "after-sales guidance". Initially, their software was designed for > use with Microsoft Windows 95; in the last 6 months they revived a > project of a version for Windows 3..... > I am located in the UK and was requested to "evaluate" this last > mentioned version. I run Windows 3.11 for Work Groups" . > I am a complete and utter "Computer nerd", know about stained glass, > but not a lot about computers, software or computer "drawing > software". > >From April 96 until 31 August 96 I must have spent about 3-4 hours > daily "nit-picking" with Dragonfly and making their life pretty > tough. I had every question answered within maximum 12 hours, hence > on communication level - in my grading - they score 10 out of 10. > They DO have their limitations, but - from my own experience and of > such reported back to me by other stained glass people - Dragonfly is > totally up-front about these, with open and above board proposals > and plans for the future. Their approach to stained glass is really > a stained glass approach - rather than a universal DRAWING approach > (e.g. Corel.....) > > Dragonfly is a bunch of computer specialists who have happened to > fall in love with stained glass and decided to concentrate their > soft-ware to be dedicated to the unique aspects of stained glass > designing. The POTENTIAL of such software is enormous, though - from > their point of view - initially not desperately commercial.Their > prices are very reasoonable, hence I feel it's not a wasted > investment. Their ONE weakness is that you cannot copy your own > sketches, drawings onto the programme. But even this, they say they > are working on to change.. > As previously posted, I have my notes & correspondence filed and > "pull-out-able". If you have specific questions, spell them out to > me and I will endeavour to answer or make Dragonfly answer. > I am known as a bit of a cynic and a Devil's Advocate. > I also call a spade a shovel. > Yet, I have been impressed with Dragonfly. > Let me know how you get on. > Let me know how else I can help... > Elisabeth 'n Toby > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi Elisabeth 'n Toby! Yes, I have a question or two about Dragonfly software. I have their literature and am still mulling over a purchase. For rectilinear designs, are the corners truly square? Is the design the same dimension top to bottom? If I have to fit a piece into a predetermined size opening (i.e. a window, or cabinet door), can I adapt the design I like to fit these dimensions? Does the follow-up tech support cost? Would appreciate your responses. Thanks, T. in Montana ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 18:20:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vI3mL-0000JUa; Mon, 28 Oct 96 18:19 PST X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Subject: After Soldering Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:45:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Oct28.114520.0> References: <<961028.083121.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > And what do your fluxy fingers do to your tapes, cds and players? I > just like to put on an oldies station on the radio. Besides, my > favorite music is mostly on record (I'm a 60's folkie) and the record > player is in the dining room. > By the way, after soldering, what leaves your fingers feeling fresh > and clean when you wash up? > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi, While soldering, I always wear disposable rubber gloves which I buy (cheaply) by the box from my local veterinarian. I used to not wear the gloves, and even though I washed frequently and immediately after soldering, the flux, being an acid, made my hands rough. It can't be avoided. The rubber gloves I buy are cheap enough that if I want to remove one of them to change the stereo, then throwing one glove away is no big deal. T. in Montana ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 19:51:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vI5Cq-0000sZa; Mon, 28 Oct 96 19:51 PST X-Path: gte.net!leestat From: leestat To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:48:56 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct28.154856.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Lee Boe Precedence: bulk Sue Eiszler wrote: > > Hi All, > I need your expertise. I just finished two 'Old English Lanterns' > from the Lanterns for Home and Garden pattern book. For those of you who > haven't seen the pattern, each side or door consists of 5 pieces: a 1" > border of 4 pieces surrounding a 3 x 7.5" clear piece. The pattern calls > for initial assembly of the sides and door and then addition of cross I am interested in the solution too, am right in the middle of doing this lantern myself- If none other appears-I will use wet wash cloth underneath-and put on the lines at the same time I solder the parts of each side, instead of after assembly. I'll let you know how this turns out. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Oct 28 23:39:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vI8lN-0001DQa; Mon, 28 Oct 96 23:39 PST X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: Shirley Suter To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 01:32:30 -0600 Message-ID: <1996Oct28.193230.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hey Sue, Hey Lee, Hey All!!! In doing my kaleidoscope decorative soldering, I too had problems with glass cracking from heat. I have learned a trick that works wonderfully. I'm sure it will work on the lanterns too! Rush right out to your friendly neighborhood craft store (Michael's, Hobby Lobby, Crafts Etc.) and purchase a package of "Easy Solder Tin Sheet". I found it in the model train department at Crafts Etc. and it set me back a whopping $1.19 for a 4" x 6" sheet. Grab your trusty tin snips and cut a few strips the length that you need for your project. Careful, this stuff is sharper than glass!! Flux the strips and build a nice solder bead on them. If you have problems with the solder trying to run to the backside of the strips, before fluxing, coat the back of them with typewriter "White Out". Tack solder these strips on your assembled lantern. Voila!!! Works like magic! ;) Shirley Suter Grapeland, Tx. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 05:23:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIE8N-0000IZa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 05:23 PST X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dragonfly software review Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 08:19:20 EST Message-ID: <961029.082255.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<199610282306.XAA20667@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk A question...does it print "true" on standard printers? My husband has tried designing with another program (and my mind just went blank), but it's really designed for printing on a plotter, so on our printer, it only prints true in one direction, so that circles become ovals...(ah, AutoCad Lite) (Our printer is a Panasonic dot=matrix) -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 05:26:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIEB9-0000bVa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 05:26 PST X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 08:24:03 EST Message-ID: <961029.082545.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk How about making your overlay of pre-tinned twisted wire? It'll be different look, but still attractive. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 06:01:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIEjA-0000W1a; Tue, 29 Oct 96 06:01 PST X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: The BEST Music Ever Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:02:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct29.4219.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The most relaxing, creative, thought provoking music I have ever listened to is Ray Lynch's "Deep Breakfast", specifically the tune called "Celestial Soda Pop". He has several other albums out, but this is by far his best. I swear, even before I even thought of doing stained glass I could listen to his music and my mind's eye would see splashes of colors changing like a kaliedoscope. Nope, never done drugs, just music. Linda Campbell begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(AH.`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &``@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```#T`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!G;&%S``,P`0```! ```!G;&%S`' ``0```!0```!4:&4@0D535"!-=7-I8R!%=F5R``(!<0`!```` M%@````&[Q:',O_2-5D4Q7!'0N^ `W0$5E<@``!X`'@P!````!0```%--5% ` M````'@`?# $````2````;&-B96QL0&UE;6%C:"YC;VT````#``80; MO2 ,` M!Q!E`0``'@`($ $```!E````5$A%34]35%)%3$%824Y'+$-214%4259%+%1( M3U5'2%104D]63TM)3D=-55-)0TE(059%159%4DQ)4U1%3D5$5$])4U)!64Q9 M3D-(4R)$14500E)%04M&05-4(BQ34$5#249)0P`````"`0D0`0```!D"```5 M`@``M (``$Q:1G6#>_)1_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0`O()`@!C: K N M"&6X1<"<$("(B1 G@<"!" M'*%K9LIA$\ B''!S< 60!I ['H '0&P@@!TP&X!T=<\?P!R (L$?T2)#' `' MD \L /@'+!R''#_'R$# MH"CP`A 6$!ZA*>,=-N!O9B!D;QX2$\ +<3T?T6<+8 01'K %H'5L?Q_@'W0? M\B?2'E0`$A]P:_L;@"3P:P= ") KP 3P)2#Z92503C-!'' ?P!\R*\"I(W%D M Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIEuL-0000Xoa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 06:12 PST X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to work by Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:12:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct29.41237.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello To All: I know I'm a little late in responding to the questionaire but, my favorite "glassic" music ranges from Lynyrd Skynyrd, Jeff Beck, Atlanta Rythtm Section, Tower of Power, and Blood, Sweat, and Tears. Being a musician, my musical tastes range to both ends of the spectrum. Michael & Donna Shattered Images Studio Houston,TX. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 06:13:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIEuL-00004ia; Tue, 29 Oct 96 06:12 PST X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Thanks To All!!!! Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:12:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct29.41237.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just wanted to take a moment to thank all of you that have taken the time to visit our web site. Thanks for all of the nice complements. I have tried to respond to all those who contacted us directly. If I have missed responding you personally, I apologize. I will be adding some new photos to the site in the next few weeks, so feel free to visit often. Thanks Again, Michael & Donna Shattered Images Studio Houston,TX. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 06:54:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIFXw-0000KZa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 06:53 PST X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:52:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct29.45256.0> References: <<1996Oct28.154856.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk leestat wrote: > > Sue Eiszler wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > I need your expertise. I just finished two 'Old English Lanterns' > > from the Lanterns for Home and Garden pattern book. For those of you who > > haven't seen the pattern, each side or door consists of 5 pieces: a 1" > > border of 4 pieces surrounding a 3 x 7.5" clear piece. The pattern calls > > for initial assembly of the sides and door and then addition of cross > > I am interested in the solution too, am right in the middle of doing > this lantern myself- > > If none other appears-I will use wet wash cloth underneath-and put on > the lines at the same time I solder the parts of each side, instead of > after assembly. I'll let you know how this turns out. > > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass that may not work either, it's because of the size and the amount of solder you have to put on the glass is the problem. even if the glass remained cool with a cloth on the bottom, the glass may still crack do to thermal shock, only this time it maybe more localized to right under the line. in the other case where the glass broke, their could have been a hairline crack in the edge, due to a number of reasons, and the heat just helped it along. when doing your lines it would'nt hurt if you used a quick setting solder, like quickset, or ultimate. the problem lies when the solder is sitting on the glass "wet", if it set up faster it may help. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 07:19:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIFwK-0000Vua; Tue, 29 Oct 96 07:18 PST X-Path: MMAC.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM!Rund#m#_Sharen From: "Rund, Sharen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: OOF: RE: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: 29 Oct 1996 07:22:30 U Message-ID: <1996Oct28.232230.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello, I'm away from the office but will be returning on 11/4/96 If you have any questions or problems, please contact Mike Fabel ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 08:34:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIH7B-0000bGa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 08:34 PST X-Path: ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU!UURESPES From: UURESPES@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: First stitches Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 11:34:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct29.63448.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sniff, sniff. I have just experienced my first eight stitches as a result in working with glass for over two years now..... I pulled a sheet of glass off the counter and it sliced my knee big time! Ouch! I was lucky this time. If it wasn't for dumb luck........ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 09:56:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIIOb-0000wda; Tue, 29 Oct 96 09:56 PST X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: Shirley Suter To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First stitches Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 11:49:27 -0600 Message-ID: <1996Oct29.54927.0> References: <<1996Oct29.63448.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk UURESPES@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU wrote: > > Sniff, sniff. I have just experienced my first eight stitches... OUCH!!! Sending cyber-kisses to your boo-boo!!! Shirley ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 09:58:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIIQK-0000w5a; Tue, 29 Oct 96 09:58 PST X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu (Kathe R. McDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Easter Visit to Chartres in France - UPDATE Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:57:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <199610291757.JAA27996@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Elizabeth. I did book my tickets for Easter, but I guess I need to change them. I booked RT to DeGaulle. I didn't realize we'd start in England. Course I could land there and then head west and hook up with you guys. Also, I guess I need to change my dates. I arrive 3/19 and depart 4/1. Sounds like I need to move it forward a couple of weeks. I thought I'd give myself a few days to check out some wineries and look around a bit. Maybe I'll try to reschedule my arrival around 3/25 and depart France after the 5th. You asked for our intentions.... Kathe McDonald, 9613 Old Bridle Ct. Sacramento, CA 95827 USA Phone 916) 366-8731 Work fax: 916) 734-7958 E-mail: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu Kathe R. McDonald Office of Curricular Support "Aint no time to hate." J. Garcia 1995 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 13:38:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vILrE-0000fBa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 13:38 PST X-Path: nethawk.com!1091 From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First stitches Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 16:38:13 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Sniff, sniff. I have just experienced my first eight stitches as a result >in working >with glass for over two years now..... > Ooooh, sorry. After you are all healed up, why don't you get a tatoo which looks like a stained glass project you particularly liked making - that way you can cover the stitch marks and scar . It certainly would be a unique knee. Sue 1091@nethawk.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 14:27:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIMcP-0000wOa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 14:26 PST X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First stitches Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 17:25:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct29.122551.0> References: <<1996Oct29.63448.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk UURESPES@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU wrote: > > Sniff, sniff. I have just experienced my first eight stitches as a result in working > with glass for over two years now..... > > I pulled a sheet of glass off the counter and it sliced my knee big time! Ouch! > I was lucky this time. If it wasn't for dumb luck........ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ewww i guess that was a little messy...i know of someone who reached into the glass bin, only to find out that the corner of the sheet nearly went through her hand. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 17:05:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIP68-0000g2a; Tue, 29 Oct 96 17:05 PST X-Path: tznet.com!DIACCA From: Topp Shop & Gallery To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Listening? here's what! Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 19:04:30 -0600 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961030010430.0067f5c0@mail.tznet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk HI! I know I have been lurking again. Murphy's Law has been presiding over the residence AND shop! Still trying to catch up. BUT! I really feel sorry for you all listening to RECORDS? We here in Wisconsin listen to Wisc. Public Radio, the oldest public radio in the nation. We have two services here abouts, one with Classical Music and News and the other Information network and News. I listen to the Information Network most of the time, everything from cooking (our passionate field) to Astophysics! But! Now with the election so close to hand, I defer to CD's mostly Marion McPartland! Some Brubeck, and some old Smithsonian recordings of old stuff. My Favorite! Erskine Hawkins and "After Hours!" Real down and dirty...........Pat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 17:10:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIPAB-0000iXa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 17:09 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: OOF: RE: The Case of the Cracking Glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 01:40:33 +0000 Message-ID: <199610300107.BAA32529@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: "Rund, Sharen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: OOF: RE: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: 29 Oct 1996 07:22:30 U Reply-to: glass@bungi.com Hello, I'm away from the office but will be returning on 11/4/96 If you have any questions or problems, please contact Mike Fabel ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ..I think you have missed the boat.... 11/4/96 was a long time ago. Anyhow, what is your message supposed to mean.....?? Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 17:10:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIPAB-0000gsa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 17:09 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Thanks To All!!!! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 01:40:32 +0000 Message-ID: <199610300107.BAA32523@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Michael & Donna, I too have visited your new WEB site. Like the fact that you kept it nice and simple. Very straight forward and easy photography. Liked the little details complementing your pictures. As a "lead"-person liked your balloon panel; also liked the fact that you gave dimesnions (which I freely admit, is lacking in my own....) I will look very much forward to seeing your next all-lead panel..... Well Done!! Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 17:10:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIPAI-0000Xla; Tue, 29 Oct 96 17:09 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First stitches Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 01:40:33 +0000 Message-ID: <199610300107.BAA32532@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk . I have just experienced my first eight stitches as a result in working with glass for over two years now..... I pulled a sheet of glass off the counter and it sliced my knee big time! Ouch! I was lucky this time. If it wasn't for dumb luck........ ---- Yep!!! That is what glass will do! Never, Ever get complacent about GLASS. It can KILL. I look at my own hands, I have already received (loving) lectures from "Glass@Bungi" people in how badly I treat my own person. I have cuts & grazes on my hands, but - so far - even I respect glass sufficiently to avoid those "first stitches". Let's hope Monona is asleep or away..... OUCH, in deed!! (Are you OK??). Please learn from this experience and TEACH caution. When I FINALLY get myself across to USA, I want celebration parties - not funerals....! Thank you for sharing this with us. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 17:10:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIPAB-0000wPa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 17:09 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Case of the Cracking Glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 01:40:33 +0000 Message-ID: <199610300107.BAA32526@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Shirley (Suter), <"Model Train Department...."> Watching from "Across the Pond" as I do, I often have quick solutions to problems posed, but which are totally useless to you folks "over there". (Hence I more often than not keep quiet). How delighted I then feel, when I see inventiveness, imagination and improvisation ideas put forward, that really IS universal. What a lovely example you posted of improvisation and using what youv'e got around you, if you can't get the real (?) thing. Congratulations Shirley! .... and I thought that I had imagination...!!! Thank you for your input. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 17:10:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIPAO-0000wVa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 17:10 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Easter Visit to Chartres in France - UPDATE Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 01:40:33 +0000 Message-ID: <199610300107.BAA32542@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Kathe, Delighted to hear from you. Can't wait to meet up with you!!! Yep, you will need to change the dates. But whether or not you wish to make your "base" France or not, I must leave entirely to you. But then, in France, I can't help you that much. You are not alone from the "Glass@Bungi" Group from the USA coming over, by the way. So far, there are another 3-4 people who have actually bought their tickets. There are another 2-3 people "balancing their finances" in anticipation. Easter is one big vacation period in Europe. Easter next year falls into the the last days of March. Against this had to be balanced religious pilgrims from Europe and elsewhere who will/would/might pour into Chartres. Hence the period for OUR journey there has been fixed for the week immediately AFTER the Easter Days. Price-whise, people-whise, weather-whise, holiday-whise that was the most advantageous compromise. I was aware of the fact that you were considering joining us from France. From your money point-of-view, I would have no control over what you would be charged for accommodation in France. If you chose to join us here in the UK, I have a better chance of making sure you get a good deal. Thank you for your address. Noted and wil be dealt with. As I have said before, the "under-writing" body of this journey is a college in my area, where I teach stained glass. The Adult Education Manager of this College is a pint-sized, but dynamic American woman, called Judy Robinson. She's "The Boss".. She and I will be discussing the next stage of this Project within the next 10 days. The probable result will be that each interested person will be asked to put down a deposit on/around Christmas time. That deposit is likely to be in the range of UK=A3.50.oo. We have the transport, route and accommodation already sorted. We can make arrangements to pick you up in France, but it would be greater fun to have you with us from the starting post...... Develop your plans and let me know your details as and when you fix them up.... Elisabeth ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 17:15:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIPEz-00018la; Tue, 29 Oct 96 17:14 PST X-Path: brinet.com!reflections From: "Kathy Sagy" To: Subject: Re: Boy did I get a wrong address Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 21:11:11 -0600 Message-ID: <199610300217.VAA05282@bones.brinet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'll be happy to have my spouse commission a Stain Glass llamas, Just give us a call!! ---------- > From: J. Hendershott > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Boy did I get a wrong address > Date: Thursday, October 24, 1996 2:39 PM > > Sorry about that gang, I guess you all can guess that I raise llamas in > addition to doing stained glass. Stained glass llamas anyone? :-) > > Janie > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 17:22:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIPMS-0000fsa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 17:22 PST X-Path: brinet.com!reflections From: "Kathy Sagy" To: Subject: Re: Diegel Foiler Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 21:18:55 -0600 Message-ID: <199610300225.VAA05312@bones.brinet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Check w/Glass Giraffe, 704-456-6665, they also have a toll free # not sure what it is, they ship anywhere and are also producing a stain glass video series that is great. Tell Jeff that Kathy & Todd sent you, wait till after the 8th to call, he's gone to NY to produce the series. ---------- > From: Curt & Karen Shawkey > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Diegel Foiler > Date: Sunday, October 27, 1996 12:00 PM > > I saw advertised in the "Stained Glass News" #33 on page 16, the Diegel > Foiler. My glass shop does not handle it nor is it in any of their > catalogs. Does anyone out there know where I can get one and how much do > they cost? My friend has one and says its so much better than any other > type of foilers. I welcome anyones thoughts and information on this. The > ad says its made by Hoevel Manufacturing. > > Karen > > Check out the webpage for "The Westport Squares" > http://www.execpc.com/~kshawkey/ > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 17:30:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIPTP-0000oca; Tue, 29 Oct 96 17:29 PST X-Path: Loundy.com!David From: "David J. Loundy" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First stitches Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 19:27:33 -0500 Message-ID: References: <<199610300107.BAA32532@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 1:40 AM +0000 10/30/96, you wrote: >. I have just experienced my first eight stitches as a result in working >with glass for over two years now..... > >I pulled a sheet of glass off the counter and it sliced my knee big time! >Ouch! >I was lucky this time. If it wasn't for dumb luck........ >---- I seem to remember reading somewhere the very true statement that "with stained glass everything you use is either hot, sharp, or toxic." --David-- ____________________________________________________________________ David J. Loundy | E-Mail: David@Loundy.com | WWW: http://www.Loundy.com/ "The moving walkway is | Phone: (847) 926-9744 about to end. Please | Listserv (for my Technology Law column): look down." | Send a message reading "subscribe" --Anon. | to Loundy-request@netural.com ____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 18:26:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIQLz-00011fa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 18:26 PST X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: OOF: RE: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 21:25:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1996Oct29.162546.0> References: <<199610300107.BAA32529@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk 11/4 is November 11th en los EEUU. M ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 19:56:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIRkd-0000iBa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 19:55 PST X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Jerri's hand cleaner Date: 29 Oct 96 22:54:03 EST Message-ID: <1996Oct30.3543.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I really like "Fast Orange". It comes in a gallon pump container > for about $8.00 at SAM's. < I recommend against the use of this product. It contains d-limonene a solvent extracted from citrus rinds that is very toxic. It has an EPA pesticide registration as a fly killer and EPA has proposed to remove from its current use in small amounts as a flavor in food because it is ucsually ontaminated with pesticides from the spraying of the citrus fruit--especially the pesticide imazalil. A few years ago, the American Industrial Hygiene Association set a workplace environmental air quality (WEEL) standard for it because OSHA is not doing anything about it. Here's where it fits in terms toxicity by inhalation of other solvents--the smaller the number, the less is considered safe to inhale by healthy adult workers. SOLVENT...............standard in parts/million....Agency ethyl alcohol..................1000 ppm............OSHA acetone.........................750................OSHA odorless paint thinner..........300................OSHA Turpentine, xylene, etc.........100................OSHA Toluene, n-hexane, etc...........50................OSHA d-limonene.......................30................AIHA When Fast Orange first came out it was 25 % d-limonene. I sent the MSDS to FDA and filed a formal complaint. I believe the product now contains about 10 % and whether that was because of the complaint or not, I don't know. I especially don't like d-limonene in a hand cleaner because it is a skin irritant and sensitizer, especially when it gets old and oxidizes. As for cleaning--it sure will do a good job of that! Its even used in paint strippers. Monona Rossol ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Oct 29 20:17:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIS51-0000SDa; Tue, 29 Oct 96 20:16 PST X-Path: sympatico.ca!taylor_buckner From: "H. Taylor Buckner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Date Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 23:16:13 -0500 Message-ID: <199610300416.XAA08017@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk 11/4/96 is neither April 11th nor November 11th, but November 4th!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 05:21:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIaa5-0000zBa; Wed, 30 Oct 96 05:21 PST X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: "H. Taylor Buckner" Subject: Re: Date Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 08:21:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1996Oct30.3211.0> References: <<199610300416.XAA08017@smtp1.sympatico.ca>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 29 Oct 1996, H. Taylor Buckner wrote: > > 11/4/96 is neither April 11th nor November 11th, but > November 4th!! > Right you are! That's what I get for hitting the send key without looking! I'd meant only to make a little private tease to Elisabeth and instead made a hasty public mistake. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa (accompanied to much beating of chest). Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 05:27:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIafN-0000qua; Wed, 30 Oct 96 05:26 PST X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First stitches Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 08:21:51 EST Message-ID: <961030.082625.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1996Oct29.63448.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk OUCH!!! I once was rushing to leave to a craft show, reached for something on a shelf and caught my knuckle on a corner of glass. It bled like crazy. I --had-- to leave, so washed up, wrapped clean towels around my hand, grabbed bandages, and left. (Fortunately, my husband drove, so I could apply pressure to the cut and get the bleeding to stop.) I have a lovely scar now. I am much more careful now! But I am sure that somewhere there's another stupid accident waiting ... -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 05:48:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIazj-0000bSa; Wed, 30 Oct 96 05:47 PST X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Exhaust Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 08:52:30 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct30.05230.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi all, Now that it's getting colder I have to bring more soldering work in to the house one room low ceiling wide came single glazed windows. Need suggestions for exhaust hood or table exhaust fan vented outside. I have 8 month old baby and 3 lb molly dog. Fume trap on the market is not good enough the sml 6"x6" inland. I also make my wood frames, sawdust etc.. April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 05:59:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIbAo-0000CKa; Wed, 30 Oct 96 05:59 PST X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Jerri's hand cleaner Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 08:57:26 EST Message-ID: <961030.085852.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1996Oct30.3543.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Wow, thank you, Monona. How many people have this stuff around their bathrooms and garages for cleanup after tinkering with the engine, etc. I'm posting a copy of this at work. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 07:42:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIcmD-0000wxa; Wed, 30 Oct 96 07:41 PST X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Exhaust Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 10:41:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct30.5413.0> References: <<1996Oct30.05230.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April Paine wrote: > > Hi all, > > Now that it's getting colder I have to bring more soldering work in to > the house one room low ceiling wide came single glazed windows. Need > suggestions for exhaust hood or table exhaust fan vented outside. I have > 8 month old baby and 3 lb molly dog. Fume trap on the market is not good > enough the sml 6"x6" inland. I also make my wood frames, sawdust etc.. > April > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the best thing i can think of is to get a room air filter with a hepa filter. they are expensive but worth it, exspecialy if you can't open any windows. get the kind with a large front intake, with the exhaust going out the top. then put the whole thing right on your table, that should work. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 08:32:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIdZF-0000vka; Wed, 30 Oct 96 08:32 PST X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First stitches Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 08:28:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1996Oct30.02840.0> References: <<1996Oct29.63448.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sorry about those stitches. I had different stitches occur while carrying a sheet of glass. I really didn't think I had a problem but I looked down and saw a 12 inch slash in a pair of new $60 slacks I had worn to the supplier. Actually had no indication that the glass had sliced my slacks. So....beware. I now stay with denims while transferring glass. PJ from CA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 08:52:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIds5-0000eqa; Wed, 30 Oct 96 08:52 PST X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs From: April Paine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Exhaust Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 11:56:50 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Oct30.35650.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass Precedence: bulk > > Hi Monona and all, > > Any ideas on venting to the outside. It has been suggested that the > reverse pull of a fan attached to a dryer vent could be used to vent out through the window. What do you think? We already have floor model > hepa & charcoal filter. I wanted some table top exhaust that could pull > fumes as I work. Squirrel cage fan? Don't they already sell something > like this? In the greenhouse you know the CFM but in the house? Room size 8' x 30' x 20'. April ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 10:49:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIfgy-00013Aa; Wed, 30 Oct 96 10:48 PST X-Path: OnlineToday.Com!tbiegler From: Terry Biegler To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First stitches Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 12:48:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <199610301848.MAA20384@online.OnlineToday.Com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 05:25 PM 10/29/96 -0500, you wrote: >UURESPES@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU wrote: >> >> Sniff, sniff. I have just experienced my first eight stitches as a result in working >> with glass for over two years now..... >> >> I pulled a sheet of glass off the counter and it sliced my knee big time! Ouch! >> I was lucky this time. If it wasn't for dumb luck........ >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >ewww i guess that was a little messy...i know of someone who reached >into the glass bin, only to find out that the corner of the sheet nearly >went through her hand. > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Sometime I don't even know I've cut myself until I see blood somewhere! Luckily I have never cut myself too badly. Terry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 12:17:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIh4G-0000Wza; Wed, 30 Oct 96 12:16 PST X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First stitches Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 15:11:06 EST Message-ID: <961030.151624.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<199610301848.MAA20384@online.OnlineToday.Com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have noticed that after working for years with stained glass, I hardly notice the small cuts on my hands. I just try to keep the blood off stuff and keep the cut clean. There is no such thing as too much Neosporin and too many bandages! (NEVER had an infection, BTW. Now I knock on wood.) -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 14:47:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIjP7-0001A9a; Wed, 30 Oct 96 14:46 PST X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First stitches Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 17:45:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct30.124543.0> References: <<961030.151624.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > I have noticed that after working for years with stained glass, I hardly > notice the small cuts on my hands. I just try to keep the blood off > stuff and keep the cut clean. There is no such thing as too much > Neosporin and too many bandages! (NEVER had an infection, BTW. > Now I knock on wood.) > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah generally that's what most people that's been doing stained glass for while says. i don't care if i get cut, generally i don't even notice it, until i see blood getting on the glass. i only hate it when i get blood on the pattern or the foil. personnaly i can't wear bandaids on any of my fingers, no grip. i just let it bleed out, unless of course it's a real bleeder, then it'll take a bit longer. usally the main places i get cut is my pushing thumb (for grining), or the pointer finger of my left hand, when breaking glass. and of course the little "fun" bits that are around. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 14:53:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIjV0-0000zga; Wed, 30 Oct 96 14:52 PST X-Path: vladmire.voiceisp.net!mhooper From: mhooper@vladmire.voiceisp.net (Mark Hooper) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Case of the Cracking Glass Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 17:52:19 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 11:48 PM 10/28/96, leestat wrote: >Sue Eiszler wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> I need your expertise. I just finished two 'Old English Lanterns' >> from the Lanterns for Home and Garden pattern book. For those of you who >> haven't seen the pattern, each side or door consists of 5 pieces: a 1" >> border of 4 pieces surrounding a 3 x 7.5" clear piece. The pattern calls >> for initial assembly of the sides and door and then addition of cross > >I am interested in the solution too, am right in the middle of doing >this lantern myself- > >If none other appears-I will use wet wash cloth underneath-and put on >the lines at the same time I solder the parts of each side, instead of >after assembly. I'll let you know how this turns out. > >Lee Boe >Rain-Boe's Creations Just a thought: How about using wire in place of foil, or cut the face off H came and soldering the ends? | The Tiffany Touch | mhooper@vladmire.voiceisp.net | | | | | | | | Altoona PA | | ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 15:09:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIjkf-00017ma; Wed, 30 Oct 96 15:08 PST X-Path: qni.com!bmorgan From: Brian Morgan To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Music to Work By Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 16:09:29 -0600 Message-ID: <1996Oct30.10929.0> References: <<1996Oct26.132938.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mike peck wrote: > > At 09:11 PM 10/25/96 +0000, you wrote: > >I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I like listening to the Dead. I was a > >child of the 60's....I too appreciate Pink Floyd cranked up and classical > >as well. > > > >Kathe R. McDonald > > My two cents worth: 60's ROCK! Doors, Dead, Hendrix, JJ, Beatles and > Stones, Clapton, any of these guys. But, because I'm trying to run a > respectable retail operation, I have to keep the volume down. > > Later artists also worth mentioning: Stevie Ray Vaughn, Led Zepplin, > Eagles, ........... and even Hootie! > > Mike Peck > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Hey Mike, We will let you turn it up in the classes you teach if you ask nicely. I would perfer S.R. Vaughn or a little Thorogood. Brian Morgan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 15:54:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIkQv-00019ya; Wed, 30 Oct 96 15:52 PST X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First stitches Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 17:48:28 -0600 Message-ID: <199610302348.RAA17898@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 03:11 PM 10/30/96 EST, mail wrote: >I have noticed that after working for years with stained glass, I hardly >notice the small cuts on my hands. I just try to keep the blood off >stuff and keep the cut clean. There is no such thing as too much >Neosporin and too many bandages! (NEVER had an infection, BTW. >Now I knock on wood.) > Nor have I ever gotten an infection from a glass cut Since I'm a lead person the tips of my fingers are all cross-hatched with little cuts, worse on the right hand since I have callouses from guitar strings on my left which just need to be sanded occasionally :-) Getting the skin peeled off my knuckles from reaching into glass bins irks me the most, reminds me of a guy slicing salami at the deli When I handle a large sheet of glass I always hold it by the edge out in front of me and give it a little shake to find out if its got a run in it. This safety prceedure has saved me from sure disaster on more then one occasion. I've seen sheets come apart in peoples hands and you don't wanna know the gory details. Len listening to classical on public radio most of the time when working .... current CD favorites Los Lobos, Greg Brown, Lyle Lovett, Robert Cray.... alltime favorite **The Band** ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 16:36:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIl6p-0001G7a; Wed, 30 Oct 96 16:35 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Date Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 01:06:26 +0000 Message-ID: <199610310033.AAA14210@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 29 Oct 1996, H. Taylor Buckner wrote: > > 11/4/96 is neither April 11th nor November 11th, but > November 4th!! > Right you are! That's what I get for hitting the send key without looking! I'd meant only to make a little private tease to Elisabeth and instead made a hasty public mistake. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa (accompanied to much beating of chest). Mary Hi, ;-)) Serves you right for teasing a little innocent girl, like me!! Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 19:32:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vInpZ-0000pna; Wed, 30 Oct 96 19:30 PST X-Path: dwave.net!staingls From: Steve Schaefer To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Exhaust Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:28:57 -0600 Message-ID: <199610310328.VAA06688@home.dwave.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I use an kitchen exhaust fan over my workbench. I then have a light over my soldering table and a two speed fan for exhaust... I had to cut a hole in the wall, but it works great.. I did extend the intake of the fan down to the table so the fumes would be pulled out before they went past my face. Steve> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Oct 30 23:41:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIrkv-0001Bua; Wed, 30 Oct 96 23:41 PST X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: Shirley Suter To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Jerri's hand cleaner Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 01:35:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1996Oct30.193544.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi Ho Gang!!! Condensed version of what COULD be a long story: Just talked to the lady that makes my custom soap for me. Since I, too, have some experience in soapmaking, we discussed the use of "handmade" soap and fluxy, acid-coated hands that occur in stained glass work. GREAT NEWS FOLKS!!! She has promised to start TONIGHT developing a soap especially made for "creative" hands! Since flux is an acid and her soap is alkaline, it seems to be a perfect solution! She has promised to include some ground oatmeal (makes your skin feel luscious) to work as a "scrubbing" agent. She has committed to have the test bars ready in 10-12 days for my hands to try (Can you say "guinea pig"?). The finished bars should be ready in four weeks. All her soaps are soooo wonderful, that I am sure these bars will be magical on "working" hands. I will let you know how it works. She hopes to make it available for sale to anyone that may be interested. If you gotta have a day, make it a special one!!! Shirley Suter Grapeland, Tx. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 31 00:49:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIso2-0000owa; Thu, 31 Oct 96 00:48 PST X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: hand cleaner Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 02:25:14 EST Message-ID: <1996Oct31.72514.0> References: <<1996Oct30.3543.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Monona, Wow. Thanks for the input. You mentioned the danger of inhaling, what about as far as absorbption through the skin? Is there any danger? >I especially don't like d-limonene in a hand cleaner because it is a >skin >irritant and sensitizer, especially when it gets old and oxidizes. > I was also wondering how long before it gets old an oxidizes? I was really surprised because I've seen this cleaner around so much. Anything from workshops to mechanics. I'm sure going to look a little closer at what I buy. Thanks, Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 31 03:58:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIvlR-0001Bla; Thu, 31 Oct 96 03:58 PST X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz From: llutz To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Exhaust Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:57:58 +1000 Message-ID: <1996Nov1.85758.0> References: <<1996Oct30.05230.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk April Paine wrote: > > Hi all, > > Now that it's getting colder I have to bring more soldering work in to > the house one room low ceiling wide came single glazed windows. Need > suggestions for exhaust hood or table exhaust fan vented outside. I have > 8 month old baby and 3 lb molly dog. Fume trap on the market is not good > enough the sml 6"x6" inland. I also make my wood frames, sawdust etc.. > April My own solution would be to take a pane of glass out and re-frame the window area to fit in an exhaust fan. If it's one larger pane- have it divided into equal rectangular bits- one of them large enough for the fan and the rest could be made into a stained glass window perhaps. I'm lucky in having a farm workshop- I just custom built a room inside the workshop with heaps of lights, electrical outlets, glass racks, kitchen sink etc. Hope you find a solution- I am much more conscious of fumes after reading everyones comments- I put an exhaust fan in the ceiling when I built it and have now started using a small portable fan to blow air across the work area to keep them out of my face. Larry from Minore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 31 06:35:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIyDJ-00014Ta; Thu, 31 Oct 96 06:35 PST X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: hand cleaner Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:34:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Oct31.43430.0> References: <<1996Oct31.72514.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerri M Roey wrote: > > Hi Monona, > > Wow. Thanks for the input. You mentioned the danger of > inhaling, what about as far as absorbption through the skin? Is there > any danger? > > >I especially don't like d-limonene in a hand cleaner because it is a > >skin > >irritant and sensitizer, especially when it gets old and oxidizes. > > > > I was also wondering how long before it gets old an oxidizes? I > was really surprised because I've seen this cleaner around so much. > Anything from workshops to mechanics. I'm sure going to look a little > closer at what I buy. > > Thanks, Jerri > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass though i personnaly don't mind what's in it. it's alot better than cleaning your hands with gasoline. and other greese fighters (though not for your hands) contains lie. i just don't like using it because it's a waterless hand cleaner, and does'nt wash off real easy, kind of greasy. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 31 07:52:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vIzPW-0001Eya; Thu, 31 Oct 96 07:52 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dragonfly software Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:22:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199610311549.PAA02340@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All, Especially Phil Taylor and Dorothy Kalahan For others out there I am re-quoting selectively the correspondence about Dragonfly stained glass software. Through my own evaluation, I used a succession of about 4 printers, a Canon Bubble-jet and 3 HP printers (all HP also "evaluating"). My own feelings about printing "true" told me that this would depend on the printer itself more than on the software (i.e. Dragonfly). Personally I have never experienced any problem with this aspect whatsoever, in fact, even to the extent that I hadn't even expected the printing anything OTHER than "true". I have no experience with dot-matrix printers, , hence I checked back with Dragonfly. They responded: 1. Glass Eye definitely tells Windows to print "true" 2. However, the printer driver software must be done correctly 3. Mechanism of the printer must in itself be accurate. Dragonfly has only ever experienced one problem and in that case , they found that the printer itself was physically unable to print a design over multiple pages accurately. I have myself had no problems with the 4 different printers that I have used.This answers the first question (snip) < A question... does it print true" on standard printers? My husband has tried designing with another program (Auto-Cad Lite), but it's really designed for printing on a plotter, so on our printer it only prints true in one direction, so that circles become ovals. Our printer is a Panasonic dot-matrix> (snip).. Dorothy Kalahan Question No. 2 From: Phil Taylor Subject: Re: Dragonfly software Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:35:23 -0700 Toby wrote: >> Hi, Dragonfly have developed a design software programme specifically for > stained glass. As such, it has some rather helpful and "neat" > features. They are also excellent in providing "user guidance" and > "after-sales guidance".(snip)> Let me know how else I can help... > Elisabeth 'n Toby Toby! <( snip) Yes, I have a question or two about Dragonfly software. I have their literature and am still mulling over a purchase. For rectilinear designs, are the corners truly square? Is the design the same dimension top to bottom? If I have to fit a piece into a predetermined size opening (i.e. a window, or cabinet door), can I adapt the design I like to fit these dimensions? Does the follow-up tech support cost? Would appreciate your responses. Thanks, T. in Montana Again, I myself have never experienced any problems with this. I have found my designs exactly as I want them from top to bottom, more over, I found no difficulties whatsoever in getting my measurements absolute exact (don't forget - I work almost exclusively to fit my stained glass into pre-determined "holes". Accuracy for me is paramount!) However, I bounced your questions back at Dragonfly, had a reply back from them overnight (i.e. within 8 hours). Fast in itself! Then they tell me: Hey Elisabeth, you've missed the boat! We have already replied directly to Phil Taylor! This is what we said... snip. This is in essence their reply to you. It is also my own experience. But I thought it worth putting into the Group for anyone else who has been waiting for these answers. Other than above, I once more must refer back to Christie Wood's excellent review. It was very fair and objective. I am now eagerly awaiting my "scanning update" from Dragonfly. I do hope the above is helpful! Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 31 16:38:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vJ7ZX-0000uwa; Thu, 31 Oct 96 16:34 PST X-Path: usaor.net!madglass From: madglass@usaor.net (Mary Ann Dulemba) To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Sidelights - Pussy Willow Design Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:33:45 -0500 Message-ID: <199611010043.TAA02196@gate.usaor.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone remember seeing such a pattern? Any help would be appreciated! I can't even give you a clue more than I have! Thanks mad -- Registered ICC User check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 31 17:03:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vJ80G-0001TIa; Thu, 31 Oct 96 17:02 PST X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Easter Visit to Chartres in France - UPDATE Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 20:02:25 -0500 Message-ID: <9611010102.AA13022@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk To the Easter Tour to Chartres Group... Just returned from a wonderful trip to Paris. Spent two days at Chartres . If you get the chance take Mr. Miller's English tour (I hope he is there when you go) what a really enchanting man. Also he just published a book and will autograph it for you.. Stop in at the Centre and if you get a chance talk with Sylvie, she is the teacher there (you will have to be able to speak french......she doesn't do English). There are quite a few good hotels in the area. We looked at one for a future visit . The Chatelet. Even has parking if you are thinking of driving from the airport. Or if you are doing the train it is really close to the snfc station. I don't know how much time you plan to spend there but we have been there five or six times and never spend enough time there. If you are going to Paris I hope that Nortre Dame will be reopened. I don't know how long it has been closed but renovations are quite extensive this time. The is also a church across from the back of the Louve that is under renovations. There are some wonderful pieces there also. And then there's Sainte Chappelle........need I say more. Anything I can help with just let me know...sorry I can't join you at Easter as I will be in St. Tropez. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 31 17:19:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vJ8G4-0000x6a; Thu, 31 Oct 96 17:18 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Easter Visit to Chartres in France - UPDATE Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 01:49:19 +0000 Message-ID: <199611010116.BAA31495@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Peggy, Forgive me for my language and approach, but I feel a l;ittle bit with you that I am navigating in unchartred water..... I get the #feeling that I would look to you for teaching me a thing or to about Chartres - especially since this would be MY first trip.... I have lived in France, studied and worked in France, I speak French and have family connections in France. Yet - somewhere along the lines, I think you have "stolen a march" on me as regards Chartres. This - for me will be a first stained glass pilgrimmage to Chartres. I get the feeling, you would have many things to teach and show me - much, much more than you have been letting on. Is there any way I could possibly persuade you to join me/us next Easter??? You didn't say yes at the time, but you didn't say no either.... Please tell me more about San Chapelle....... I would enjoy immensely meeting up with you and introduce you to Swedish hospitality in England..... How might I tempt you... ?? Elisabeth ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Oct 31 17:27:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0vJ8Nc-0001Tya; Thu, 31 Oct 96 17:26 PST X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Easter Visit to Chartres in France - UPDATE Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 01:57:13 +0000 Message-ID: <199611010124.BAA00521@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Peggy, Talk about telepathy!!!! Your message crossed mine... Will respond tomorrow. Am heading for bed right now - desperately tired... Elisabeth ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass