From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 02:59:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3hBs-0000cGa; Mon, 1 Apr 96 02:50 PST X-Path: spdc.ti.com!mack From: mack@spdc.ti.com (Caren Mack) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: suggestions, please? Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 04:46:36 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <9604011046.AA26089@epcot.spdc.ti.com> References: <<1996Apr1.6367.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Put your foot down. If it is a class for those with the > basics done, then they shouldn't be there. IF they insist > on staying - then you should not make any effort to teach the > fundamentals. Set aside NO time for them. If they insist on staying, I guess thats they're right if they're paying for it. BUT... when you give assignments and they need help with basic skills they should know, I would politely let them know that they should know how to do that at this point and you don't have time to teach them "now". You have other students to consider who are learning more advanced skills, and thats what your teaching is advanced skills. How many of us have had children who think they know everything and when you try to teach/correct them they resent it. So, you let them go on and they "learn" sooner or later they don't know everything and maybe its time to start listening and take the correct steps. Just my opinion... for what its worth. Caren ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 04:21:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3iUy-0000zwa; Mon, 1 Apr 96 04:14 PST X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Edging projects Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 07:05:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199604011205.HAA13992@brutus.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Regarding the flex-braid you're talking about...should it be used on most >sized projects? Is it a mesh type of stuff? How do you apply it, do you >just hold it over the edge you are working on and flux and solder as usual? > From your description it sounds like it just makes a thicker edge...is that >right? I haven't seen it in this area---Idaho that is! My information tells me that you really don't have to reinforce unless a project gets to 4 sq ft. Now I have come across other instances where I decided, even though the project was smaller, that I really should reinforce, but I don't have any rules, just instinct. I made the angel on the front of Majestic Christmas, and the horn is so fragile, and sticking out with very little support. I reinforced all around the outside of it. Yes, it is a mesh type. And you've got the right idea on attaching it. The solder is what maked it strong, and anyway you have of getting a thicker solder bead will increase the strength of the piece. Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 05:22:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3jXW-0000uia; Mon, 1 Apr 96 05:20 PST X-Path: light.lightlink.com!sharrow From: "Ray Sharrow" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: (Fwd) Re: suggestions, please? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 07:47:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199604011320.IAA23687@light.lightlink.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: suggestions, please? Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 01:07:03 I'm new to this (will complete my beginner's 6-week course this Wednesday). I am an electronics technician by trade and brought soldering skills to this course; I' I've also replaced many panes of broken window glass. The biggest benefit of these transported skills was to see how different the various forms of soldering are, and how intricate methds of cutting glass can be. (I've also mixed various forms of cement and concrete to recipe -- obviously qualifying me as a master pastry chef and baker, right?) More to the point: I plan to take continuing classes, finding this craft very enjoyable. I would resent an instructor who spent 20 minutes of MY class time catering to folks too stubborn or proud to admit that they are beginners. I may not have been a beginner to ALL of the skills that I've learned over the past six weeks, but it would have been rude on my part, and unprofessional on my instructor's part to presume that I could handle an intermediate, continuing course without wasting a lot of my classmates' time. Offer a refund or credit for a novice course to your 2 brats, but please don't waste 20 minutes of the 8 qualified students time (8 X20=160 minutes - 2hours 40 minutes per class)time, to placate these boors. Just an opinion. > >any glass teachers out there? a bit of advice please... > > > >I teach in an adult ed program - and this term I have two people in the > >continuing classs who have never done glass before. One is a master > >electrician who insists he's an expert at soldering and how difficult can > >the rest of it be? the other is a hairdresser who's "along for the ride". > >The remaining 8 in the class all have completed a basic course - and 3 are > >working their way through their 4th and 5th continuing class - working on a > >worden lamp this term, having done panel lamps, boxes, picture frames and > >large reinforced panels. THe two newbies insist that they don't need to take > >a beginners course...any suggestions, other than alloting 20 minutes a class > >to them and hoping for the best. I don't want to short change the others in > >the class?who knows, maybe it's the effect of the comet? a full moon? > > > >thanks in advance > > > >Judy in Northern MA > >glaslady@tiac.net ************************************************ ** ALL CATEGORICAL STATEMENTS ARE FALSE. ** ************************************************ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 06:00:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3k7B-0000w7a; Mon, 1 Apr 96 05:57 PST X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: suggestions, please? Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 08:57:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr1.35720.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am not a glass teacher, but I would like to put my two cents worth in there. I think the people who responded have valid ideas. My thought though is, can't you just be perfectly honest? Tell, them that because you have advanced students in the class that have paid for advanced instruction, that you will not have time to set aside for teaching them basic instruction, like learning to actually cut glass for example. Explain that because you love the glass craft, that you do not want to turn them off to it do to the fact that you don't have time to teach them the basics during an advanced class. I just hate to see anyone turned off the the craft because they go to a class and feel they are being ignored by their instructor. Glass means so much to me, I don't know though whether I would have kept at it if my instructor had been someone that made me feel like I was so much extra baggage, and that I wasn't worth the time. Just be up front and firm. "I don't want you to waste your time and money only to get discouraged, so I really must insist that you take a basic course before moving on to a more advanced class such as this. It wouldn't be fair to you or to my other students if I let you enroll in a class that you don't have the skill for. There is more to this craft than you think, you need to learn ALL the basics BEFORE moving on to this level. People invest a lot of time and money in this craft and if you bite off more than you can chew you will get frustrated and quite or blame me for not giving you this speech. If you insist on staying in this class, I need to forwarn you that I will NOT be able to stop to teach you a step that my other students already learned in their previous class(es) as it wouldn't be fair to them." Ok, so maybe it was more like five cents worth. Sorry and good luck... :-) Janet on Governors Island IMN2GLASS@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 07:09:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3lBR-0000ota; Mon, 1 Apr 96 07:06 PST X-Path: aol.com!NAPPERzzzz From: NAPPERzzzz@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Workbenches Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:05:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr1.5548.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Anyone have any good plans, blueprints, ideas for a sturdy workbench for stained glass. Most of the plans I find in books are geared to the woodworker. Some ideas on glass storage bins would be helpful too...the area I will be designing a workshop is about 10X9. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 09:46:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3nfJ-00018Va; Mon, 1 Apr 96 09:45 PST X-Path: mhs.unc.edu!jha.cashiers From: "Jennifer H. Austin" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: need for a forum moderator Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:47:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr1.7476.0> References: <<09F25F3101CC0060>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: UNC Precedence: bulk If I am alone in this, please forgive me and if I am posting this to the wrong add, please correct me. I really enjoy being on this list, but we desparately need a forum moderator here. So that when we post a message, we fix the subject and a moderator lists them categorically and member's replies to the particular subject, weeding out repeats, etc. ... Then we would all receive ONE "digest" post daily, instead of the 40 messages I got on Monday morning. I will have to remove myself from the list if this cannot be easily remedied. Any suggestions??? Anyone else experiencing this?? Jennifer H. Austin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 10:02:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3nuY-00019Ua; Mon, 1 Apr 96 10:01 PST X-Path: mhs.unc.edu!jha.cashiers From: "Jennifer H. Austin" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: grinders and cuts Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:00:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr1.8054.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: UNC Precedence: bulk I bought a pair of small leather baseball gloves to use while grinding.. I still use a metal thimble on my right thumb, because I don't want to grind through my gloves and that seems to be my "pressure finger". Jennifer H. Austin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 11:29:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3pGm-0001BKa; Mon, 1 Apr 96 11:28 PST X-Path: smtplink.dis.anl.gov!lernerk From: "Ken Lerner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re[2]: Workbenches Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 13:04:16 CST Message-ID: <9603018283.AA828394144@smtplink.dis.anl.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Regarding workbench plans... I recently built one in my (newly designated) glass room, which is is somewhat smaller than yours, about 7 X 10. I patterned it more or less after the workbenches in the glass shop where I take classes. It runs the length of one wall, about 7 ft. long, and I made it about 3 ft. wide -- any wider and I wouldn't be able to easily reach stuff near the back. I just used 2 X 4 framing, with a chipboard top, and on top of that I laid a piece of drywall. The drywall provides a smooth flat work surface, and you can easily stick pushpins, drywall screws, etc. into it to hold things in place while leading & soldering. Also its basically nonflammable, in case your soldering iron winds up on it. When the drywall eventually gets too torn up, you can just replace it; a 4 X 8 sheet is about $4.00. The workbench sits under a window for light and ventilation. I don't have enough glass to warrant a glass rack yet -- I'd be interested in any plans for those. -- Ken Lerner ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 12:41:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3qNS-00015Ha; Mon, 1 Apr 96 12:39 PST X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: need for a forum moderator Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:38:46 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "need for a forum moderator" on Apr 1, 12:47, "Jennifer H. Austin" writes:] > If I am alone in this, please forgive me and if I am posting this to the > wrong add, please correct me. I really enjoy being on this list, but we > desparately need a forum moderator here. So that when we post a message, > we fix the subject and a moderator lists them categorically and member's > replies to the particular subject, weeding out repeats, etc. ... Then > we would all receive ONE "digest" post daily, instead of the 40 messages > I got on Monday morning. I will have to remove myself from the list if > this cannot be easily remedied. Any suggestions??? Anyone else > experiencing this?? Yes. Please remove yourself from the list by mailing to glass-request@bungi.com This list is designed for the timely exchange of information. The only way to do that is with an unmoderated forum. Moderation generally adds between 2-14 days of delay in messages. This is unacceptable, particularly when we have such a diverse group of professionals (and amatuers) subscribed to the list. The volume of this list is extremely small in comparison to many other lists. We have only about 200 people on the list and the volume ranges between 0 and 10 msgs a day. If you're getting more than that with the high probability your mail service was out of commission for 1 or more days (this happens with every single message - at least one person's email does not get through) If you really want to read digest form you can access the archives at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 13:48:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3rQz-00018ha; Mon, 1 Apr 96 13:46 PST X-Path: mhs.unc.edu!jha.cashiers From: "Jennifer H. Austin" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: need for a forum moderator Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:47:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr1.114753.0> References: <<582F603101CC0060>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: UNC Precedence: bulk Thanks Glenna! There must be a problem with my e-mail then.... Today I got 25 repeats of the same posts.... I'll look into it! Jennifer H. Austin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 14:10:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3rl7-0000VQa; Mon, 1 Apr 96 14:07 PST X-Path: highlander.cbnet.ns.ca!jcunning From: jcunning@highlander.cbnet.ns.ca (Joanie Cunningham) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Glass Painting Question Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:10:40 +0400 Message-ID: <199604011410.SAA02158@highlander> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am new to this list, and after lurking for a little, I have a question. I have been working with glass now for about 10 years, so I am familiar with the basics. Now, I want to try my hand at glass painting. I have the materials and someone to do the firing, but the instructions I have are vague when it comes to the firing times and temperatures. So any time/temp sugestions for semi antique glass, glass stains, and an electric kiln? Also, with our first test piece, the kiln wash seemed to adhere to the piece - any ideas why? I have more questions but they can wait. Looking forward to talking glass! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 15:17:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3spF-0000hma; Mon, 1 Apr 96 15:15 PST X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: jhendershott@macnet.com (Janie Hendershott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Painting Question Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:10:57 -0800 Message-ID: <199604012310.PAA11961@jack.macnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I am new to this list, and after lurking for a little, I have a question. I >have been working with glass now for about 10 years, so I am familiar with >the basics. Now, I want to try my hand at glass painting. I have the >materials and someone to do the firing, but the instructions I have are >vague when it comes to the firing times and temperatures. So any time/temp >sugestions for semi antique glass, glass stains, and an electric kiln? >Also, with our first test piece, the kiln wash seemed to adhere to the piece Get a copy of Boyce Lundstroms Glass Book Two, Advanced Fusing Techniques. There is a whole section on enamels and lusters. Lots of other good advice. Janie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 16:49:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3uGa-0000fSa; Mon, 1 Apr 96 16:48 PST X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire From: Doug Scale To: glass@bungi.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: suggestions, please?] Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 19:47:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr1.14473.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <31606A34.3FE9@ebtech.net> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 18:43:48 -0500 From: Doug Scale X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: suggestions, please? References: <199603312332.SAA17946@mailserver2.tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 glaslady wrote: > > any glass teachers out there? a bit of advice please... > > I teach in an adult ed program - and this term I have two people in the > > thanks in advance > Judy, I teach in a college and if I was faced with your sit'n I would go back on the coordinator or dean of Con-ed to make sure the students meet your prerequisites. You are right, it is not fair to the rest of the class and if I was in that class I sure would be upset!! Have you tried that route yet? Doug S. > Judy in Northern MA > glaslady@tiac.net > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 19:58:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3xDT-0000sta; Mon, 1 Apr 96 19:57 PST X-Path: sage.wt.com.au!rdeint From: Rexort International P/L -- HIGLASS To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: waterproof? Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:56:25 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <199604020356.LAA19805@sage.wt.com.au> References: <<9604010046.AA27703@corb>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >Forget trying to totaly waterproof a art glass project. Double glaze if > >you want true waterproffing. > > > >ms > > Does everyone agree with Mr. Sunshine? I have seen "water-tight" projects > and would like to hear from more of you. Fused art glass panels can be installed very similiar to plain window glass. As they can be manufactured in one piece, they are certainly waterproof. Harald. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 1 23:15:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u40H7-0000zqa; Mon, 1 Apr 96 23:13 PST X-Path: macmail1.cig.mot.com!Beise_Tom From: "Beise Tom" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Web sites for stained glass Date: 1 Apr 1996 22:58:58 -0600 Message-ID: <1996Apr1.165858.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Tried the website. Looks good & I'm glad to see you got your photos in. Well done. _______________________________________________________________________________ From: glass@bungi.com on Wed, Mar 27, 1996 4:36 PM Subject: Re: Web sites for stained glass To: glass@bungi.com > From: Pristine > Please inform me of stained glass web sites. I am putting together a list I'm jumping the gun slightly but my Web site is starting to come together - at least it was at 5am today. :-) My commissioned glass panels get fitted to the door tomorrow. I've promised the artist that the North Lights Web pages will be launched by the time the panels are fitted! So, while the fitting is in progress I'll be frantically editing photo's into the placeholders on the Web pages. Real 'hold the front page' stuff! Step carefully over all the scaffolding. This is the URL of Kris's Gallery of Wood and Glass - which currently features the stained glass of North Lights. http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris Feedback appreciated - especially any viewing problems. Kris -- email: kris@gardencitynet.co.uk "Everything in life is transient; including life itself" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by macmail1.cig.mot.com with SMTP;27 Mar 1996 16:36:46 -0600 Received: from motgate2.mot.com ([129.188.136.20]) by pobox.mot.com (8.7.3/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id QAA09593 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 1996 16:36:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [204.119.71.2]) by motgate2.mot.com (8.7.3/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with SMTP id WAA12599 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 1996 22:36:19 GMT Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u22zZ-0000nUa; Wed, 27 Mar 96 13:42 PST X-Path: mail.gardencitynet.co.uk!kris From: "Kris" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Web sites for stained glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 21:38:28 +0000 Message-ID: <199603272148.VAA05209@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 2 04:07:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u44cp-00017oa; Tue, 2 Apr 96 03:51 PST X-Path: imcnet.net!drgnswve From: Dragon's Weave To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Loose Foil Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 06:52:36 -0500 Message-ID: <9603311152.AA04797@ns1.imcnet.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I Subscribed to this list a week ago or so, and have been lurking since. I have picked up a few good tips and always look forward to getting my mail these days. I've been doing glass for about 6 months now and I typically work on projects for at least 3 to 4 hours a day. Mostly small panels, suncatchers, etc. Recently, though, I've run a cross a problem I've never encountered before and was wondering if any of you had suggestions. I've had 3 pieces in the past few weeks where my foil has pulled loose and I've had to glue it back on. I clean my glass well before foiling. I burnish the foil. When finished soldering, I clean the piece with baking soda and water. As far as I know, I'm doing everything correctly. I recenlty purchased a new soldering iron with a ceramic element. Could it be too hot and causing this problem? (Although, it's not the entire piece that loosens.) Thanks for your input, - Jen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 2 06:25:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u46oj-0000oSa; Tue, 2 Apr 96 06:12 PST X-Path: ccinet.ab.ca!kgreenwell From: kgreenwell@ccinet.ab.ca (Pat Greenwell) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: need for a forum moderator Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 07:06:27 -0700 Message-ID: <9604021406.AA04772@bach.ccinet.ab.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >If I am alone in this, please forgive me and if I am posting this to the >wrong add, please correct me. I really enjoy being on this list, but we >desparately need a forum moderator here. So that when we post a message, >we fix the subject and a moderator lists them categorically and member's >replies to the particular subject, weeding out repeats, etc. ... Then >we would all receive ONE "digest" post daily, instead of the 40 messages >I got on Monday morning. I will have to remove myself from the list if >this cannot be easily remedied. Any suggestions??? Anyone else >experiencing this?? >Jennifer H. Austin I want to agree with Jennifer about the advantages of a digest form for the messages. I want to keep receiving the newsgroup but there are some subjects which I find more interesting than others, and the digest format is more time-efficient. I subscribe to 6 other groups and all have the digest option. Just my 2 cents-worth. Pat kgreenwell@ccinet.ab.ca (Mrs)Pat Greenwell 5302 57th St., Ponoka,Alberta,Canada T4J 1M4 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 2 11:47:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4C2E-0001ENa; Tue, 2 Apr 96 11:46 PST X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!rosochac From: "Lisa Anne Rosochacki" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: waterproof? Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:46:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199604021946.OAA111130@pilot04.cl.msu.edu> References: <<9604010046.AA27703@corb>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > > >Forget trying to totaly waterproof a art glass project. Double glaze if > >you want true waterproffing. > > > >ms > > Does everyone agree with Mr. Sunshine? I have seen "water-tight" projects > and would like to hear from more of you. > I have seen alot of things that were successfully sealed with Silicone applied to all the soldered joints. I think that the key is getting enough to seal the joint and not putting so much that it detracts from the piece. Lisa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 2 11:50:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4C51-0001EOa; Tue, 2 Apr 96 11:49 PST X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!rosochac From: "Lisa Anne Rosochacki" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: patio blocks & rotten winters Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:49:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199604021949.OAA163446@pilot04.cl.msu.edu> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > I live in mid-MI and the snow/ice/temperature have not done in my > smaller blocks. I haven't made any really large ones (like the octagon > mold you can purchase) so can't tell you if our extreme cold would crack > something larger even if it is reinforced. We consistently get -20 and > lots of snow and occasionally get -30 without the windchill. > > Sue > 1091@nethawk.com I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan (West side of the state) and I have had mine out all this winter and they have done fine. They are about 18 inch round ones. Lisa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 2 12:05:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4CJR-0001D2a; Tue, 2 Apr 96 12:04 PST X-Path: stf1.css.edu!RKOLBAK From: RICK KOLBAK To: Stained Glass Listserve Subject: Subscription Verification Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 13:33:00 PST Message-ID: <3161A488@mailgate.css.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Note: To Glass Server Please respond with a subscription verification. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rick Kolbak RKolbak@stf1.css.edu 1119 E. 10th Street Duluth, MN 55805 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 2 12:54:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4D4e-00017Ta; Tue, 2 Apr 96 12:53 PST X-Path: mail.utexas.edu!kgbryant From: kgbryant@mail.utexas.edu (Kelly Bryant) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Subscription Verification Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:53:00 -0600 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Here is my subscription verification. If you need any more info. please let me know. >Note: To Glass Server > >Please respond with a subscription verification. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Rick Kolbak RKolbak@stf1.css.edu >1119 E. 10th Street >Duluth, MN 55805 >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass =================================================================== Kelly Bryant Placement Coordinator Department of Geological Sciences The University of Texas at Austin (512)471-4486 (512)471-9425 FAX kgbryant@mail.utexas.edu =================================================================== ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 2 16:08:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4G6n-0000bXa; Tue, 2 Apr 96 16:07 PST X-Path: tiac.net!glaslady From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: need for a forum moderator Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:08:10 -0500 Message-ID: <199604030008.TAA08158@mailserver2.tiac.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > the digest format >is more time-efficient. I subscribe to 6 other groups and all have the >digest option. it's interesting - with one exception, this is the lightest volume listerve to which I belong . I'm in one where 300 messages per day is the norm (don't ask...) while the digest may be more efficient for the participants, it requires a great deal of work on the part of the 'moderator', who on most lists, also serves as a censor/miss manners..... personally , I appreciate the work already done here, and while a digest 'might' save me some time, the volume is low enough, that it wouldn't be substantial for me. actually, it's easier for me, with this size volume to just blip through the messages, saving those I want and discarding those I don't - with a digest, I'd have to save the whole, then edit it to cull the pieces I want to save. as I understand the normal evolution of a list, it starts small, then begins to grow as word of it gets out. eventually, it ends up being 'owned/moderated' and digested, when it gets too unwieldy. the down side to a large list is evidenced in what's been going on at U of kentucky for the past couple of months (which hosts 2 of the big ones I'm on) - one has tried to push users into a usenet situation and the other is frequently down, simply because of the volume passing through the digest ... and if you want to see a real horror show, imagine someone selecting 'reply' on a 300 message digest and resending it to everyone accidentally (that's happened twice in the past month on one of my big lists - and there were MANY cranky campers who pay by the line who went nuts when literally thousands of lines of digest came spewing back to them in a reply...) just my 2 cents.... Judy in Northern MA Glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 2 17:43:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4HYQ-0000hUa; Tue, 2 Apr 96 17:40 PST To: rglass-42 X-Path: cpcn.com!maruca From: maruca@cpcn.com (la madrugadora) Subject: nay vote on moderator/digests Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 20:37:40 -0500 Message-ID: <9604030137.AA25960@info.cpcn.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk If only this server would send italics! That way we could underscore what Glenna wrote about moderated lists delaying posts 2 to 14 days. Personally I am gratefully that the Rands are so generous as to relay these messages for us. It obviously costs them something, and I don't remember any of us every offering to contribute to defray those So, should we ask for more unpaid work from them? In the bargain, as Glenna pointed out, we'd lose the spontaneous responses. I love posting a question and having an answer back within hours! Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 2 19:06:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4Irk-0000P0a; Tue, 2 Apr 96 19:04 PST X-Path: Wittenberg.EDU!cutler From: cutler@Wittenberg.EDU To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: nay vote on moderator/digests Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 22:03:49 EST Message-ID: <1996Apr3.3349.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I support the "no moderator" side of this discussion. It takes only a second to hit the delete key after another second to determione if the topic is of interest. I also appreciate the efforts of the list server to handle the posts and keep things going smoothly. I'd rahter keep it simple. Cutler ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From camadm.Camosun.BC.CA!COOPERD Tue Apr 2 19:49:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: from camad1.Camosun.BC.CA by daver.bungi.com with esmtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4JYM-0000fFC; Tue, 2 Apr 96 19:48 PST Received: from camadm.Camosun.BC.CA by camadm.Camosun.BC.CA (PMDF V5.0-4 #3258) id <01I32TFD6ETC8ZEDJX@camadm.Camosun.BC.CA>; Tue, 02 Apr 1996 19:48:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 19:48:10 -0800 (PST) From: cooperd@camadm.Camosun.BC.CA Subject: Re: nay vote on moderator/digests In-reply-to: <9604030137.AA25960@info.cpcn.com> To: glass@bungi.com Cc: rglass-42@daver.bungi.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I agree with Mary, nay on a moderator, I also enjoy asking a question and receiving a reply quickly. I always check my mail directory and read the ones I'm interested in first then when I have the time, check each one individually and delete if they don't apply to me. Donna! ! - U From owner-glass Tue Apr 2 19:50:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4JYc-0000kza; Tue, 2 Apr 96 19:48 PST X-Path: camadm.Camosun.BC.CA!COOPERD From: cooperd@camadm.Camosun.BC.CA To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: nay vote on moderator/digests Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 19:48:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1996Apr2.114810.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I agree with Mary, nay on a moderator, I also enjoy asking a question and receiving a reply quickly. I always check my mail directory and read the ones I'm interested in first then when I have the time, check each one individually and delete if they don't apply to me. Donna! ! - U ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 01:37:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4OsM-0000uDa; Wed, 3 Apr 96 01:29 PST X-Path: rmplc.co.uk!mdcglas From: mdcglas@rmplc.co.uk (Phil Speedwell) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Intro And Question (Round Panel) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:28:01 +0100 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk After lurking in the background for some time, I think it's time to say hello. My name is Phil Speedwell, I live in a village in Ayrshire in Scotland, I have been working in glass for about 5 years, quite seriously for the last 2 years, although not enough to give up the day job! I do the rounds of craft fairs and pick up a few commissions, and in that last bit is my recent problem. I Have been asked to make a round panel 24" in diameter edged in lead. Drew the pattern - no problem, Cut the Glass - no problem, the problem is how do I keep the edge pieces from moving as I assemble the panel, obviously when it's a rectangular panel the right-angled edges on my assembley board hold the perimeter leads in place what do I do about a round one? Any suggestions will be greatly received. Many Thanks, Phil ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 04:37:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4Re8-0000lna; Wed, 3 Apr 96 04:26 PST To: rglass-42 X-Path: cpcn.com!maruca From: maruca@cpcn.com (la madrugadora) Subject: re: round project Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 07:22:25 -0500 Message-ID: <9604031222.AA04523@info.cpcn.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello Phil! This assembly board of yours, how easy is it to hammer in and remove later small nails? That's what we usually do! all the best Mary Armstrong ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 05:51:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4So8-00011la; Wed, 3 Apr 96 05:41 PST X-Path: rrcc.mb.ca!browning From: browning@rrcc.mb.ca To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Cancel subscription Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 07:44:13 -0600 Message-ID: <199604031326.HAA00822@post> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Please remove me from your mailing list. Thanks, Walter Browning ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 06:08:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4T1i-0000GPa; Wed, 3 Apr 96 05:55 PST X-Path: YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu!UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: need for a forum moderator Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 08:39:56 EST Message-ID: <960403.084325.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<9604021406.AA04772@bach.ccinet.ab.ca>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I suppose I could jump into this too. I hate digests. Can't pick and choose what I want to read. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 06:22:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4TKq-0000KYa; Wed, 3 Apr 96 06:14 PST X-Path: avery.med.virginia.edu!lbl From: Laurie Hall To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Intro And Question (Round Panel) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:12:20 -0500 Message-ID: <199604031412.JAA137876@avery.med.Virginia.EDU> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 10:28 AM 4/3/96 +0100, you wrote: >, the problem is how do >I keep the edge pieces from moving as I assemble the panel, obviously when >it's a rectangular panel the right-angled edges on my assembley board hold >the perimeter leads in place what do I do about a round one? Any >suggestions will be greatly received. > > >Many Thanks, > >Phil Hi, Phil, Laurie from Virginia here. Glasswork is a hobby for me, and I'm no expert, but I am thrilled that I can finally offer a "tip"! I don't have an assembly board, so, when working on a piece that has straight edges, I nail wooden strips onto a piece of plywood and use them to hold my glass in place. When working on a piece that does not have straight edges, I use horseshoe nails to brace the glass. They are about three inches long and have a flat head which makes it easy to hammer them into the plywood board. I just keep adding them as I add pieces to the outside of the design, and they do an excellent job of holding the glass in place. I don't know what metal they are made of, but I expect they are made from iron. I bought them at a hardware store, and they were very inexpensive. Say, what sort of weather are you having in Scotland today? It is beautiful here, supposed to get up into the high 70's, which is making it very hard for me to sit at my desk when what I want to do is get outside and work in my yard! Laurie Laurie Hall E-mail: lbl@virginia.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 07:43:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4UYQ-00013ka; Wed, 3 Apr 96 07:33 PST X-Path: aristotle.net!rwsmith From: Rebecca Smith To: glass@bungi.com Subject: moderator Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:49:27 -0600 Message-ID: <2.2.16.19960403093222.2f0f8884@aristotle.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I just thought I would add my two cents on this discussion of a monderated list. I believe, first, that Glenna is doing an excellant job with this list as it is. Second I hate the thought of missing out on any post made. Going on line to get the post from this list is the first thing I do in the morning, after or with the first cup of coffee and before the newspaper. I have learned too many valuable ideas to ever thank of possibly missing a single one. If we try to put to much on Glenna we could wind up with out this list all together. Again, I would like to thank Glenna for this very informative list and to all the great crafts people who help all the rest of us enjoy the wonderful art of stained glass. Nay to moderator is my vote. Rebecca Smith (rwsmith@aristotle.net) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 09:45:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4WZv-0000cfa; Wed, 3 Apr 96 09:42 PST X-Path: microsoft.com!a-mattla From: "Matthew Lang (S&T Onsite)" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: Confirmation of subscription Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:42:08 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Apr3.1428.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Matthew Lang x-20751 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 10:49:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4XZ0-0000Mva; Wed, 3 Apr 96 10:45 PST X-Path: compuserve.com!101670.3010 From: "Philip M. Kenchatt" <101670.3010@compuserve.com> To: Stained Glass Archives Subject: Round Panel (reply) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:44:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr3.84434.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I joined this forum two days ago and this is the first message that I have replied to. I am a stained glass craftsman with 18 year’s experience, working principally on the repair restoration and conservation of church windows. Phil Speedwell writes >I Have been asked to make a round panel 24" in diameter edged in lead. Drew >the pattern - no problem, Cut the Glass - no problem, the problem is how do >I keep the edge pieces from moving as I assemble the panel. Hi Phil, There are two methods that I would recommend when glazing irregular shapes. 1. Cut a number of 1/2 pieces of flat profile boarder lead - fold the two leaves on one side of the lead towards the heart to form a U shape. The open leafs can then be placed around the glass and a horseshoe nail used against the other side to position the glass against the cutline. In this way the glass is protected from ‘shelling’ when the nail is banged in. Assemble each piece of glass working from the left-hand corner as normal. When the project is nearly complete you will have all the pieces glazed together surrounded by nails. Form the boarder lead into shape, remove one or two nails and offer up the boarder lead, reposition the nail on the outside of the boarder lead and carefully work your way around the piece. 2. Take a piece of 3mm float glass place it on the cutline so that lower edge is about 2 inches below cutline - use your glass cutter to follow the perimeter and cut out the glass. You should be left with a piece of glass with rectangular sides and bottom and concave top edge. [( Take your boarder lead and lay it into the curved section. Finally before securing the glazing battens, adjust your cutline, glazing battens and glass so that they line up with the cutline. I have just discovered how hard it is to describe an action without being their to demonstrate. I hope that the above helps. _______________________________________________________________ Phil ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 10:56:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4Xgl-0000Ssa; Wed, 3 Apr 96 10:53 PST X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: jhendershott@macnet.com (Janie Hendershott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Intro And Question (Round Panel) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:48:51 -0800 Message-ID: <199604031848.KAA05075@jack.macnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >At 10:28 AM 4/3/96 +0100, you wrote: >>, the problem is how do >>I keep the edge pieces from moving as I assemble the panel, obviously when >>it's a rectangular panel the right-angled edges on my assembley board hold >>the perimeter leads in place what do I do about a round one? Any >>suggestions will be greatly received. I build my panels on another sheet of clear glass with the pattern taped to the back of it. I use tacky wax to hold the pieces on. When you've soldered one side, just heat the glass with a hairdryer if its big, or put it in the oven at 200 deg to soften the wax, flip it over and solder the other side. Janie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 11:09:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4Xsf-0000Uya; Wed, 3 Apr 96 11:06 PST X-Path: microsoft.com!a-mattla From: "Matthew Lang (S&T Onsite)" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Intro And Question (Round Panel) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:05:12 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Apr3.3512.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Phil, Why not just adapt the basic concept of the standard methodology. That is, instead of using straight boards and nailing them to your working surface, use small wooden blocks that are nailed around the circumference of the circle that defines your outside edge. As you progress, you nail down additional blocks. Matthew Lang x-20751 >---------- >From: mdcglas@rmplc.co.uk[SMTP:mdcglas@rmplc.co.uk] >Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 1996 1:28 AM >To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: Intro And Question (Round Panel) > >After lurking in the background for some time, I think it's time to say >hello. > >My name is Phil Speedwell, I live in a village in Ayrshire in Scotland, >I >have been working in glass for about 5 years, quite seriously for the >last >2 years, although not enough to give up the day job! I do the rounds of >craft fairs and pick up a few commissions, and in that last bit is my >recent problem. > >I Have been asked to make a round panel 24" in diameter edged in lead. >Drew >the pattern - no problem, Cut the Glass - no problem, the problem is >how do >I keep the edge pieces from moving as I assemble the panel, obviously >when >it's a rectangular panel the right-angled edges on my assembley board >hold >the perimeter leads in place what do I do about a round one? Any >suggestions will be greatly received. > > >Many Thanks, > >Phil > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 12:12:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4Yrl-0000paa; Wed, 3 Apr 96 12:09 PST X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: Elaine & Howard Rubin To: Glass list Subject: Moderation Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 12:07:32 -0500 Message-ID: <199604032009.MAA09742@desiree.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- This is Howard....To the best of my knowledge at this time (legalese) anyone who wants only a moderated list is free to form of their own. I for one, who has a VERY limited scope of interest of the craft of which I care enough to comment on can choose not to reply as I see fit. The postings for patio blocks DID indeed catch my attention, and i will probably try a few. If I was on a moderated list, there was a chance that that post may have not been seen by me or deemed un-fit for distribution. I prefer to make the choice for myself as to what I want to read in full, comment on, save or delete. Glenna has been good in keeping us from digressing too far from the main gist of the list, and her suggestions to take the correspondence to a personal rather than list discussion is CERTAINLY the way to go. If one is on too many lists to devote the time it takes to garner the wanted information from the chaff, be more selective in the lists you subscribe to. The old adage of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" seems to apply here. As an aside to Glenna, kudos for ALL your work and PLEASE keep on, keeping on! -- UNDER CONSTRUCTION...Check out http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/hrubin. htm Elaine and Howard, mastering technology one byte at a time! E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 14:22:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4avC-0000f8a; Wed, 3 Apr 96 14:20 PST X-Path: pennet.net!rloftus From: Ray Loftus To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Patterns Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:13:41 GMT Message-ID: <199604032213.WAA18088@willgate1.Pennet.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Gleanna-- you mentioned in your description of one of your panel lamps that you re-designed the original pattern on your computer. Could you tell me what program(s) your using? Also I read in one of the digest a discussion about patterns but I did not see how to access them. Could anyone help with this? By the way I'm new to the list so-- hello everyone! I have been working with stained glass for about a year and I love it. This is one great list -- thanks for the tips. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 14:46:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4bIq-0000cla; Wed, 3 Apr 96 14:45 PST X-Path: exis.net!pbornem From: pbornem@exis.net (Phil Bornemeier) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Digest Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 17:45:09 -0500 Message-ID: <199604032245.RAA26583@marlin.exis.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> the digest format >>is more time-efficient. I subscribe to 6 other groups and all have the >>digest option. Please note that last word. "option". In the other listservs that I subscribe to digest is an option. Once each day (or each number of hours set by the listserv owner) the people with the option set get a single message with all of the messages since the last digest was sent. Those who do not set the digest option continue to get the individual messages. -- pbornem@exis.net Not making a choice Phil Bornemeier is making a choice. It is a choice Virginia Beach, VA to stay where you are. ------------------------------------------------------------ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 15:24:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4btP-0000Mda; Wed, 3 Apr 96 15:23 PST X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire From: Doug Scale To: glass@bungi.com Subject: more two cents worth!! Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 18:21:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr3.132158.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Obviously lots of us feel the list is fine just the way it is and i want to add my thanks to Glenna for her efforts on out behalf.. Doug S. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 15:57:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4cPq-0001ERa; Wed, 3 Apr 96 15:56 PST X-Path: tiac.net!glaslady From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Intro And Question (Round Panel) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:56:41 -0500 Message-ID: <199604032356.SAA15261@mailserver1.tiac.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>I Have been asked to make a round panel 24" in diameter edged in lead. Drew >the pattern - no problem, Cut the Glass - no problem, the problem is how do >I keep the edge pieces from moving as I assemble the panel, obviously when >it's a rectangular panel the right-angled edges on my assembley board hold >the perimeter leads in place what do I do about a round one? Any >suggestions will be greatly received. Phil, one of my continuing students is fond of building jigs out of plywood using (whatelse!) a jigsaw... he has done a complicated duck and several rounds and he finds that if he cuts the jig so that it allows for the outside lead, then places that , it works well. He actually will cut one face off of scrap lead, so that he can place the glass properly, then when it's time to install, he removes the 'scrap lead and replaces it with his final edge finish. he got into the habit of jigs while working with foil and found it a good way to keep control of non rectangular leaded pieces. He them uses the 'scrap lead' to do castings. ingenious, and thrifty, too. Judy in Northern MA Glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 16:21:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4cml-0000eha; Wed, 3 Apr 96 16:20 PST X-Path: utah-inter.net!stainedglass From: stainedglass@utah-inter.net (Creative Glass - Ben Benedict) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Intro And Question (Round Panel) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:24:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr3.102411.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 10:28 AM 4/3/96 +0100, you wrote: >After lurking in the background for some time, I think it's time to say hello. > >My name is Phil Speedwell, I live in a village in Ayrshire in Scotland, I >have been working in glass for about 5 years, quite seriously for the last >2 years, although not enough to give up the day job! I do the rounds of >craft fairs and pick up a few commissions, and in that last bit is my >recent problem. > >I Have been asked to make a round panel 24" in diameter edged in lead. Drew >the pattern - no problem, Cut the Glass - no problem, the problem is how do >I keep the edge pieces from moving as I assemble the panel, obviously when >it's a rectangular panel the right-angled edges on my assembley board hold >the perimeter leads in place what do I do about a round one? Any >suggestions will be greatly received. > > >Many Thanks, > >Phil > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Phil If your work is in foil, just use push pins. (Like map pins but with a metal head so they don't melt with your iron) If using lead, you need more support, we use horse-shoe nails or friar (?spelling) nails. Hope this helps. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 16:47:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4dBo-0000cfa; Wed, 3 Apr 96 16:46 PST X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patterns Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:46:04 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk you mentioned in your description of one of your panel lamps that > you re-designed the original pattern on your computer. > what program(s) your using? (Dave here) For the panel lamp, we used a Unix program, called troff. Technically, I used the 'pic' preprocessor, and then fed the result into troff. This allowed us to create a mathmatically perfect representation of the image. The exact source for the image follows: .PS move right 2.5i {line right 1.5i} move right 0.75i;move down 9i {line left 3i} {line right 3i}; {line from left of 1st line to left of 2nd line;} {line from right of 1st line to right of 3rd line;} move up 0.6i; {line left 3i} {line right 3i}; move up 0.6i; {line left 3i} {line right 3i}; move up 0.6i; {line left 3i} {line right 3i}; move up 0.6i; {Al: line left 3i} {Bl: line right 3i}; move down 2.7i {line to 1/2 of the way between Al.w and Al.e} {line to 1/2 of the way between Bl.w and Bl.e} move right 0.5i from right of 1st line; Tp: line right 2i; move left 1i; move down 1.5i; {line left 0.75i;line to Tp.w} {line right 0.75i;line to Tp.e} .PE .ce 6 Sided Lamp (Glenna here) I am now using Corel Draw 4.0 I have only used it to do a design similar to the contemporary style the Frank Lloyd Wright does. Enjoy the list! -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 3 17:37:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4dx5-0000h4a; Wed, 3 Apr 96 17:35 PST X-Path: utah-inter.net!stainedglass From: stainedglass@utah-inter.net (Creative Glass - Ben Benedict) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Edging projects -Debby- Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:38:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr3.113849.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 12:40 AM 4/1/96 -0500, you wrote: >Joyce, > >Regarding the flex-braid you're talking about...should it be used on most >sized projects? Is it a mesh type of stuff? How do you apply it, do you >just hold it over the edge you are working on and flux and solder as usual? > From your description it sounds like it just makes a thicker edge...is that >right? I haven't seen it in this area---Idaho that is! > >Debby >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Debby We sell copper braid for reinforcing in Salt Lake City, Utah. You can pick up a similar product at your local hardware store as solder wick (used to remove solder from electrical joints) A far stronger internal bracing system is put out by Morton called "Morton Strong Line". You can also use copper reinforcing (not as strong but easier to bend) put out by the people that make foil. Ben B Creative Glass, Inc 57 E 700 S SLC UT 84111 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 4 12:08:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4vI7-00016Ta; Thu, 4 Apr 96 12:05 PST X-Path: microsoft.com!a-mattla From: "Matthew Lang (S&T Onsite)" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: Computer what!?! Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:05:43 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Apr4.4543.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello there! My name is Matthew Lang. I am a computer graphic artist by trade. I have just recently joined this news group. I am doing so as part of my research while I am developing a new CD-ROM product called, "Art Glass." This product is a collection of stained glass and stylized windows and cartoons for visual artists in various fields. People will use art from the product for web site development, multimedia, and print backgrounds. So the target audience is not stained glass amateurs or professionals per se, rather graphic arts professionals who are tired of the same old assortment of stone and wood backgrounds and textures for their publications. The collection could be used though by a person wanting to design a window using common programs such as Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, and Pagemaker. Is this something that would be of interest to you? It also contains an interactive instructional program that shows people how to make a "digital stained glass window." For those of you familiar with L.C. Tiffany's work, you can experiment with a digital version of Tiffany's plating technique. You can work from Cartoons that come with the product or scan your own. Each cartoon is offered in two different visual formats: the first is for a backlit window, the other for a frontlit window (in which the leadlines are lit). The product will be available on CD-ROM only on both Windows and Mac platforms. Also, if you have any suggestions or comments about what you would like to see in a product such as this, I welcome your input. The product is about 3/4 finished at this point and there is still time to make changes and improvements. Thanks for your interest and for reading this somewhat lengthy email. Matt Lang Matthew Lang x-20751 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 4 13:09:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4wGb-00014Ha; Thu, 4 Apr 96 13:08 PST X-Path: mail.gardencitynet.co.uk!kris From: "Kris" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:02:29 +0000 Message-ID: <199604042111.VAA12547@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: "Matthew Lang (S&T Onsite)" > Also, if you have any suggestions or comments about what you would like > to see in a product such as this, I welcome your input. The product is There are several generic lighting conditions that I have observed in stained glass - particularly when the glass is textured or has imperfections 1 Morning/Evening warm colour temperatures 2 Cloudy cool colour temperatures 3 Clear cold colour temperatures 4 Front lit reflective 5 Back lit diffused 6 Back lit strong Other conditions appear to be site dependent. Will you beta the software; will it be Shareware? Look forward to at least seeing the results it produces. :-) Kris -- email: kris@gardencitynet.co.uk "Everything in life is transient; including life itself" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 4 15:58:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u4yuS-00018La; Thu, 4 Apr 96 15:57 PST X-Path: aol.com!FStryczek From: FStryczek@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:57:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr4.135732.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The CD-ROM sounds interesting. Please let me know when you've finished your project, and how it can be obtained. Thanks. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 4 18:37:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u51OQ-0000NLa; Thu, 4 Apr 96 18:36 PST X-Path: advtel.net!pittman From: Paul Pittman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Patterns Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:52:41 -0600 Message-ID: <199604050252.UAA02673@aopen.advtel.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glad to be here! This is my first experience with a posting discussion group. It's good to find serious stained glass hobbyists and professionals willing to share ideas and tips. I have been working with stained glass for about two years. I generally work with smaller pieces (less than 20", rectangular, circular or elliptical) using the copper foil method. I have trouble finding pre-designed patterns I want to build, so I design many of my own. I have a scanner and a personal computer. If I find a picture or pattern in a magazine, book, or whatever, I scan it and convert it to Autocad format. I can then redraw it (using the scanned image as a guide) and make all the lines, arcs, curves smooth and clean. Also, with the Autocad program, I can plot the pattern to any scale I need. It ends being a lot of work but I like patterns to be sharp and controlled. Creating an interesting pattern is almost as challenging and satisfying as building the finished glass piece. I wonder if any readers would like to exchange patterns. I have about half a dozen "original" patterns. Also, I have reproduced a few from pattern books, catalogs, etc. Most of my patterns are birds, or flowers, usually less than 20". If anyone would like to exchange patterns, please contact me through the posting. P.S. I think the posting group is great. Paul Pittman Prairieville, Louisiana ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 4 19:11:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u51uY-00011Na; Thu, 4 Apr 96 19:10 PST X-Path: idirect.com!mrum From: mrum@idirect.com (mike & carol) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: nay vote on moderator/digests Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 22:09:57 -0500 Message-ID: <199604050309.WAA08743@lucid.idirect.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I agree, lets just stay the way we are! Carol >If only this server would send italics! That way we could underscore >what Glenna wrote about moderated lists delaying posts 2 to 14 days. >Personally I am gratefully that the Rands are so generous as to relay >these messages for us. It obviously costs them something, and I don't >remember any of us every offering to contribute to defray those > > >So, should we ask for more unpaid work from them? In the bargain, as >Glenna pointed out, we'd lose the spontaneous responses. I love posting >a question and having an answer back within hours! > >Mary ******************************************* Mike and Carol Rumak Mississauga, Ontario Canada Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at: http://web.idirect.com/~studio ******************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 05:42:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5Bcq-00017Ja; Fri, 5 Apr 96 05:32 PST X-Path: idirect.com!gayowsky From: Ted Gayowsky To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patterns Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 08:30:03 -0500 Message-ID: <199604051330.IAA18987@lucid.idirect.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Folks, I've just started drawing up patterns on AutoCAD for the same reasons as Paul. I think that an electronic pattern exchange is a great idea. Although there are many more artistic computer formats for drawing, AutoCAD is sort of the standard for engineering and architecture. It works wonderfully for line drawings, and can be read by almost any other drawing program. I have a few patterns drawn up for panel lamps, suncatchers and leaded panels which could be sent to the news group. If there is sufficient interest, maybe a subgroup could be set up that was an electronic archive of original patterns? Ted Gayowsky Toronto, Ont.> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 06:58:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5CvY-0000iCa; Fri, 5 Apr 96 06:55 PST X-Path: aol.com!SClark4647 From: SClark4647@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patterns Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:55:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr5.45539.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I would be very interested in exchanging patterns with you. Email SCLARK 4647. Shelli ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 10:21:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5G7E-0000xoa; Fri, 5 Apr 96 10:20 PST X-Path: awinc.com!jthomson From: "Julie M. Thomson" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patterns Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 10:12:43 -0800 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 08:30 AM 96-04-05 -0500, Ted wrote: >If there is sufficient interest, maybe a subgroup could be >set up that was an electronic archive of original patterns? I think this is a great idea! I'm fairly new to stained glass (less than a year) and have limited patterns available. My only concern is that if you are to put patterns in AutoCAD DWG format, please don't use a version of AutoCAD which my version can't read! ===================================== Julie M. Thomson - jthomson@awinc.com Rossland, British Columbia, Canada ===================================== ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 13:46:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5JHS-00010Ha; Fri, 5 Apr 96 13:42 PST X-Path: elixir.isu.edu!CATHY From: "Catherine Heyneman" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Sun Pattern Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:44:04 +0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr5.21444.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: ISU College of Pharmacy Precedence: bulk Hi All! I'm looking for a pattern that features a sun, preferably with a smiling face and lots of rays. Any leads? Thanks! Cath ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 14:40:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5KA2-0000tla; Fri, 5 Apr 96 14:39 PST X-Path: mail.gardencitynet.co.uk!kris From: "Kris" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Problems with Accessing Kris's Gallery Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 22:33:17 +0000 Message-ID: <199604052239.XAA03070@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk AOL users are reporting problems accessing the Kris's Gallery main page with the URL I published. I have no idea why it doesn't work for them but it may be because the AOL system isn't compatible when there is an implicit HTML main page. The full URL for my main page is: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/index.htm The direct access to the North Lights showcase main page is: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlig/index.htm Hope this sorts out the problem. :-) Kris -- email: kris@gardencitynet.co.uk "Everything in life is transient; including life itself" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 14:49:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5KJ5-0000lUa; Fri, 5 Apr 96 14:48 PST X-Path: dlr From: dlr (Dave Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Stained glass web site update Date: Fri, 5 Apr 96 14:48 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, Just a quick reminder that there is a place to store glass patterns at ftp://ftp.bungi.com/pub/incoming/glass I can then move them to the web page, and keep them available for ftp as well. On other topics, if you have some good pictures of your stained glass, please send them to us to put up on the web page. No charge if you send them electronically (either on disk, or ftp them to use). If you send negatives, we have to put them on photo-CD, and that costs about $1 per image. We prefer if you send them electronically. I'm still experimenting with the best way to photograph stained glass. Most of the images you see on our web page were taken with a 35mm camera, against Glenna's studio window (south facing, looking over Silicon Valley). They were then developed, and the best images were tagged and converted to photo CD. We then use Photofinish to crop and colour balance, and convert to jpeg format. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 16:34:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5LwF-0000zTa; Fri, 5 Apr 96 16:33 PST X-Path: fox.nstn.ca!jteuwen From: "Juergen Teuwen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained glass unsubscribe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:32:23 -400 Message-ID: <199604060032.UAA20967@Fox.nstn.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk unsubscribe by mistake I subscribed you stained glass group. please unsubscribe. E.Schwarzer *-*-*- Webmaster Novacan Information Services 1302 East Petpeswick Road Musquodoboit Harbour, N.S. Canada - B0J 2L0 *-*-* url: http://novacan.ns.ca/ *-*-* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 20:04:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5P59-00012Aa; Fri, 5 Apr 96 19:54 PST To: rglass-42 X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Date: Fri Apr 5 19:54:25 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr5.194554-0800pdt.205567-14446+385@orb.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Matthew, You wrote: >Hello there! >My name is Matthew Lang. I am a computer graphic artist by trade. I have >just recently joined this news group. I am doing so as part of my >research while I am developing a new CD-ROM product called, "Art Glass." >This product is a collection of stained glass and stylized windows and >cartoons for visual artists in various fields. People will use art from >the product for web site development, multimedia, and print backgrounds. >So the target audience is not stained glass amateurs or professionals >per se, rather graphic arts professionals who are tired of the same old >assortment of stone and wood backgrounds and textures for their >publications. > I, for one would be very interested in the CD-ROM. I have in the past adapted and used patterns from my other crafts and from books out of the library, but it is a tedious process to photocopy them all. When I do a full size pattern, 66 X ? it take me a long time to draw it out & then redraw it before I like it and feel that the pattern will work. A program which could be accessed would be wonderful. I have tried Corel Draw but as yet I have not mastered this process. I would like to be kept posted on your progress. Much appreciated, Karin >The collection could be used though by a person wanting to design a >window using common programs such as Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, and >Pagemaker. Is this something that would be of interest to you? It also >contains an interactive instructional program that shows people how to >make a "digital stained glass window." > >For those of you familiar with L.C. Tiffany's work, you can experiment >with a digital version of Tiffany's plating technique. You can work from >Cartoons that come with the product or scan your own. Each cartoon is >offered in two different visual formats: the first is for a backlit >window, the other for a frontlit window (in which the leadlines are >lit). > >The product will be available on CD-ROM only on both Windows and Mac >platforms. > >Also, if you have any suggestions or comments about what you would like >to see in a product such as this, I welcome your input. The product is >about 3/4 finished at this point and there is still time to make changes >and improvements. > >Thanks for your interest and for reading this somewhat lengthy email. > >Matt Lang >Matthew Lang >x-20751 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 20:13:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5PIy-0000mIa; Fri, 5 Apr 96 20:08 PST X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grinder tongs Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 23:08:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr5.18823.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-03-27 17:30:14 EST, you write: >ruin my finger nails. You have finger nails!!!???!!! :-) I have mortons and someone else's tongs and neither are wholly satisfactory. If I could remember to do it, the taping sounds like a good idea. I go through a lot of New Skin and Liquid Bandage. Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 20:21:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5PSv-0000x1a; Fri, 5 Apr 96 20:19 PST To: rglass-42 X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo Subject: Re: nay vote on moderator/digests Date: Fri Apr 5 20:19:00 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr5.201339-0800pdt.290047-26356+85@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk For what my 2 cents are worth, I enjoy scanning the list. I always seem to get something useful. And, I believe that if I want to read something I should have the opportunity to at least scan the info and make my own choice. And I agree with Glenna that we would lose the spontaneity. Karin >I agree, lets just stay the way we are! >Carol > > >>If only this server would send italics! That way we could underscore >>what Glenna wrote about moderated lists delaying posts 2 to 14 days. >>Personally I am gratefully that the Rands are so generous as to relay >>these messages for us. It obviously costs them something, and I don't >>remember any of us every offering to contribute to defray those >> >> >>So, should we ask for more unpaid work from them? In the bargain, as >>Glenna pointed out, we'd lose the spontaneous responses. I love posting >>a question and having an answer back within hours! >> >>Mary >******************************************* >Mike and Carol Rumak >Mississauga, Ontario >Canada > >Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at: >http://web.idirect.com/~studio >******************************************* > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 20:25:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5PXw-0000yDa; Fri, 5 Apr 96 20:24 PST X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Fusing Spectrum Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 23:24:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr5.18248.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-03-30 13:28:50 EST, you write: >don't try to fuse Spectrum pieces together at all. Just got back from the Vegas show (more on that later) and while I was there visited the local sg shops and galleries. One in particular was very gracious, taking us into their back room and allowing us the run of the place. She had a BEAUTIFUL, LARGE fused piece which she had lying on the table - all in pieces!! It was all Spectrum glass, but obviously not compatible with itself. Talk about making lemonade from lemons - the artist was going to make that shattered piece into a mosaic and thereby save the beauty. By the way - they were also making stepping stones from previously fused pieces. Looked great! Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 20:29:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5Pae-0000zca; Fri, 5 Apr 96 20:27 PST X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grinder tongs Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 23:26:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr5.182648.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-03-30 18:39:21 EST, you write: >save your fingers For one project I had to grind teeny tiny pieces - a butterfly antennae - and I put on some cotton gloves. It worked, but they were very wet by the time I was done. Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 20:34:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5PfG-0000w7a; Fri, 5 Apr 96 20:31 PST X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stepping stones Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 23:30:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr5.183022.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-03-30 19:22:29 EST, you write: >stained glass patio blocks out in the winter conditions of north They'll be fine if you treat them right. ALL concrete will eventually disintegrate if left in contact with wet soil. I learned this with my concrete ducks. What you need to do, is sprinkle some gravel or sand on top of the earth, then place the stepping stones on top of them. Sealing them is a good idea, too. Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 20:42:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5Pnd-0000wDa; Fri, 5 Apr 96 20:40 PST X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: suggestions, please? Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 23:40:14 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr5.184014.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-04-01 01:50:38 EST, you write: >Offer a refund or credit for a novice course to your 2 brats, but please >don't >waste 20 minutes of the 8 qualified students time (8 X20=160 minutes - 2hours > 40 minutes per class)time, to placate these boors. I agree!!!! - it's unfair to the rest who have put in the time and money to learn the basics traditionally. Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 20:56:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5Q1E-00011Da; Fri, 5 Apr 96 20:54 PST X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: nay vote on moderator/digests Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 23:54:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr5.185419.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-04-02 20:44:03 EST, you write: >I love posting >a question and having an answer back within hours! > > Me, too! I also vote Nay (as if I had anything to say about it). Great big Kudos and thanks to Glenda and the other Rands for providing this service! Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 21:10:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5QEQ-0000rKa; Fri, 5 Apr 96 21:08 PST X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grinder tongs Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 23:10:06 -0500 Message-ID: <960405231006_265187153@emout07.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-03-28 00:16:35 EST, you write: >VICKI PAYNE KEEP HER NAILS SO BEAUTIFUL?? fake nails ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 21:10:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5QFC-0000k5a; Fri, 5 Apr 96 21:09 PST X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 00:07:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr5.19728.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >The CD-ROM sounds interesting. Please let me know when you've finished your >project, and how it can be obtained. Thanks. DITTO!!! Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 5 21:43:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5QmC-0000sOa; Fri, 5 Apr 96 21:43 PST X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Wasser Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 00:43:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr5.19430.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I've just discovered Wasser and yes, I know it's no longer being produced. However, I know some stores still have it. Can anyone out there point me to a source - I'm looking for opaques, patterns and diecuts. Thanks! Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 6 02:43:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5VMN-00014ra; Sat, 6 Apr 96 02:36 PST X-Path: mail.gardencitynet.co.uk!kris From: "Kris" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained glass web site update Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 10:30:08 +0000 Message-ID: <199604061036.LAA01930@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: dlr@daver.bungi.com (Dave Rand) > I'm still experimenting with the best way to photograph stained > glass. I've been very pleased with the results I'm getting using video capture to Hi-8 tape. The definition is more than enough for Web pages. Using a Miro DC1 board to digitise into the PC with Adobe Premiere and then Photoshop SLE 2.5 to reprocess the images. They usually require a contrast & colour boost and some benefit from sharpening. The images on my Web page were both direct video and also video of photographs or even laminated colour xeroxes of photographs. This may not be the cheapest option for most people but you get instant results and can bracket exposures etc for no extra cost. Kris -- email: kris@gardencitynet.co.uk "Everything in life is transient; including life itself" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 6 08:25:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5amn-0000cGa; Sat, 6 Apr 96 08:24 PST X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: Delphi Stained Glass To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Fusing Spectrum Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 11:24:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199604061624.LAA15233@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 11:24 PM 4/5/96 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 96-03-30 13:28:50 EST, you write: > >>don't try to fuse Spectrum pieces together at all. Spectum glasses can be fused together. You have two options; either test your glass first for compatibility before starting your project or contact Spectrum directly to find a supplier that carries their tested compatible 96 COE line. Several years ago, I made a beautiful fused picture frame from Spectrum which went through 3 firings. There was no problem with compability since I tested first, I only had trouble with devitrification which was easy to correct with Super Spray. Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 6 13:10:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5fEc-00012la; Sat, 6 Apr 96 13:09 PST X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: waterproof? Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 13:08:30 -0800 Message-ID: <199604062108.NAA23307@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >> > > > >I have seen alot of things that were successfully sealed with Silicone applied >to all the soldered joints. I think that the key is getting enough to seal the >joint and not putting so much that it detracts from the piece. > >Lisa > that sounds like a fun time. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 6 13:19:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5fMv-00011Na; Sat, 6 Apr 96 13:18 PST X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Intro And Question (Round Panel) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 13:16:49 -0800 Message-ID: <199604062116.NAA20663@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > When working on a piece that does not have straight edges, I use >horseshoe nails to brace the glass. They are about three inches long and >have a flat head which makes it easy to hammer them into the plywood board. >I just keep adding them as I add pieces to the outside of the design, and >they do an excellent job of holding the glass in place. They are made of steel. Another tip: save your lead cuttoffs 3/8 "h" or bigger, strip them off of the heart, then cut them into 2" long "tabs". use the tabs to cushion the glass from the nails by sliping an end under the glass bend it up and over then set you glazing nail. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 6 13:33:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5fap-00012Ea; Sat, 6 Apr 96 13:32 PST X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Intro And Question (Round Panel) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 13:31:25 -0800 Message-ID: <199604062131.NAA23964@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Dear Phil, >Why not just adapt the basic concept of the standard methodology. That >is, instead of using straight boards and nailing them to your working >surface, use small wooden blocks that are nailed around the >circumference of the circle that defines your outside edge. As you >progress, you nail down additional blocks. > The idea of nails holding in the pieces of glass is the quickest solution. with the use of a cushion of lead you will be fine. Don't worry about small movemennt of pieces, you can always tap pieces back into place after you have fully assembled the piece. It is often best to remain flexible in glazing as sliping a piece in slightly off line can cause problems that you may not catch for a while. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 6 14:31:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5gUJ-00014xa; Sat, 6 Apr 96 14:29 PST X-Path: aol.com!GlassTrphy From: GlassTrphy@aol.com To: kris@gardencitynet.co.uk, glass@bungi.com Subject: Problem viewing stained glass graphics Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:28:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr6.122858.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm one of the AOL subscribers that was having trouble viewing Kris's stained glass peacock at the http: address that was indicated on {glass@bungi.com} Thanks to you, Kris@gardencitynet.co.uk, I finally got through but I am still having a problem. All of the text that has been written appears fine with no problem. In the area where your photos are to appear... I see nothing but an AOL symbol's with the name of the photo under it. For some reason I can't view any of your graphics on the web no matter how long I wait. For some reason it seems like my computer just locks up. I've tried to reload the program but still no luck. I'm not extremely computer literate but I have been told that if I purge or delete my Cache file that this will remedy the problem. Would you, Kris, or anyone want to comment on this problem? Thanks in advance, Dusty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 6 21:24:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5mtR-000139a; Sat, 6 Apr 96 21:20 PST X-Path: aol.com!Fundy19 From: Fundy19@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Stained Glass Workshops/Shows Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 00:19:52 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr6.191952.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello All! This is my first time here; Ijust spent an enjoyable hour reading through. I live in Tallahassee, Fl. and am wondering how to find out about major workshops/shows in the Southeast? Can anyone help me? I also have some beautiful ( if I do say so myself!) original patterns, that I'm more than happy to share...if someone can tell me how. I'm a complete novice at this computer thing. Thanks, Adrienne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 6 22:20:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5nmo-00014La; Sat, 6 Apr 96 22:17 PST To: rglass-42 X-Path: mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com!19-74_server From: "19-74 Server" <19-74_server@mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com> Subject: Undeliverable Mail Date: 6 Apr 1996 22:25:15 U Message-ID: <1996Apr6.142515.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: waterproof? Sent: Sat, Apr 6, 1996 1:35 PM To: Rund, Sharen On Server: Telecom Date: Sat, Apr 6, 1996 10:25 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 7 08:17:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u5wBD-00012Ta; Sun, 7 Apr 96 08:15 PDT X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass Workshops/Shows Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 08:14:49 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > also have some beautiful ( if I do say so myself!) original patterns, that > I'm more than happy to share...if someone can tell me how. I'm a complete > novice at this computer thing. Thanks, Adrienne If they are on paper you need to have them scanned. We don't have a scanner here but perhaps someone on the list does. If it's an electronic pattern you need to upload it using the ftp protocol. An example of how to do this follows however the details may change depending on your system. See your local administrator for details. ftp ftp.bungi.com (it will prompt you for an account name) anonymous (it will prompt you for a password) use your email address cd hub/incoming/glass bin put Hope this helps. Happy Easter to everyone! -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 7 16:05:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u63UO-0000cAa; Sun, 7 Apr 96 16:03 PDT X-Path: idirect.com!mrum From: mrum@idirect.com (mike & carol) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grinder tongs Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 19:01:57 -0400 Message-ID: <199604072301.TAA02980@lucid.idirect.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >In a message dated 96-03-27 17:30:14 EST, you write: >>ruin my finger nails. >You have finger nails!!!???!!! :-) >I have mortons and someone else's tongs and neither are wholly satisfactory. > If I could remember to do it, the taping sounds like a good idea. I go >through a lot of New Skin and Liquid Bandage. Barbara >---- Hi everyone, this is Carol I think we are missing the obvious here. why is everyone grinding so much that their fingers are being worn down? Is the volume of work you are doing so great (Hoorah) or are your patterns poorly cutt? Is your glass cutting too generous? Are you staying on the outside of the marker line instead of the inside? After a long time of doing glass, I really closely check to see how pattern pieces made from cardboard or glass fit together, before I use them as templates. Remember to leave space for the foil. It may sound ridiculous, but if there are 10 or more pieces of glass before the outside perimeter, that is a lot of room. If your pattern and/or glass pieces fit tight before being foiled, will they fit at all after foiling? NOT!! Yes, it took more than 10 years to burn out the first grinder. Hopefully, it will take 20 years to burn out the second, but by very very carefully making patterns/ templates, my need for grinding has been greatly minimized. Just my humble opinion. Carol ******************************************* Mike and Carol Rumak Mississauga, Ontario Canada Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at: http://web.idirect.com/~studio ******************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 7 19:31:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u66hQ-00015aa; Sun, 7 Apr 96 19:29 PDT X-Path: gnn.com!YaNvrNo From: Craig McKellar To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Tree Designs Date: Sun, 07 Apr 1996 22:27:50 Message-ID: <199604080228.WAA07700@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have been looking for a final glass design of 24" x 67" Window Pane in neutral colors (Forest Green, Amber off whites and other soft tones. This design is of an outdoor scene of Oaks and/or Pines using long needle pine branches with Pine cones. Something that can be framed in a 1-1/2" Oak Frame. Thank You for taking the time to respond. I had thought of engraving the detail of the branches and cones and using rub & buff to give greater detail but dont believe I ever seen anything quite like this. Would like any advice and suggestions. "Ya-Nvr-No" 1824 White Oak Lane Interlochen MI 49643 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 03:20:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6Dsp-0000dQa; Mon, 8 Apr 96 03:09 PDT X-Path: mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com!19-74_server From: "19-74 Server" <19-74_server@mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com> To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Undeliverable Mail Date: 7 Apr 1996 20:14:10 U Message-ID: <1996Apr7.121410.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Intro And Question (Round Panel) Sent: Sat, Apr 6, 1996 1:45 PM To: Rund, Sharen On Server: Telecom Date: Sun, Apr 7, 1996 8:14 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 03:20:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6Dsp-00012Ha; Mon, 8 Apr 96 03:09 PDT X-Path: mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com!19-74_server From: "19-74 Server" <19-74_server@mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com> To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Undeliverable Mail Date: 7 Apr 1996 20:14:14 U Message-ID: <1996Apr7.121414.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: RE: Intro And Question (Round Panel) Sent: Sat, Apr 6, 1996 2:00 PM To: Rund, Sharen On Server: Telecom Date: Sun, Apr 7, 1996 8:14 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 03:21:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6Dsp-000156a; Mon, 8 Apr 96 03:09 PDT X-Path: mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com!19-74_server From: "19-74 Server" <19-74_server@mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com> To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Undeliverable Mail Date: 7 Apr 1996 20:14:21 U Message-ID: <1996Apr7.121421.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Problem viewing stained glass graphics Sent: Sat, Apr 6, 1996 2:59 PM To: Rund, Sharen On Server: Telecom Date: Sun, Apr 7, 1996 8:14 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 03:23:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6Du9-0000s2a; Mon, 8 Apr 96 03:10 PDT X-Path: mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com!19-74_server From: "19-74 Server" <19-74_server@mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com> To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Undeliverable Mail Date: 7 Apr 1996 20:15:40 U Message-ID: <1996Apr7.121540.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Undeliverable Mail Sent: Sat, Apr 6, 1996 10:42 PM To: Rund, Sharen On Server: Telecom Date: Sun, Apr 7, 1996 8:15 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 03:23:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6Du9-0000dHa; Mon, 8 Apr 96 03:10 PDT X-Path: mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com!19-74_server From: "19-74 Server" <19-74_server@mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com> To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Undeliverable Mail Date: 7 Apr 1996 20:15:23 U Message-ID: <1996Apr7.121523.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Stained Glass Workshops/Shows Sent: Sat, Apr 6, 1996 9:52 PM To: Rund, Sharen On Server: Telecom Date: Sun, Apr 7, 1996 8:15 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 03:25:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6Dws-0000tKa; Mon, 8 Apr 96 03:13 PDT X-Path: mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com!19-74_server From: "19-74 Server" <19-74_server@mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com> To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Undeliverable Mail Date: 7 Apr 1996 20:16:40 U Message-ID: <1996Apr7.121640.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Stained Glass Workshops/Shows Sent: Sun, Apr 7, 1996 8:31 AM To: Rund, Sharen On Server: Telecom Date: Sun, Apr 7, 1996 8:16 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 06:19:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6GcM-0000mOa; Mon, 8 Apr 96 06:04 PDT X-Path: ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu!elgarber From: elgarber@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu (Ellen Garber) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Fusing Spectrum Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 08:02:34 -0500 Message-ID: <9604081302.AA27679@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I would like to hear about the time in Las Vegas. Thanks.>In a message dated 96-03-30 13:28:50 EST, you write: > >>don't try to fuse Spectrum pieces together at all. > >Just got back from the Vegas show (more on that later) and while I was there >visited the local sg shops and galleries. One in particular was very >gracious, taking us into their back room and allowing us the run of the >place. She had a BEAUTIFUL, LARGE fused piece which she had lying on the >table - all in pieces!! It was all Spectrum glass, but obviously not >compatible with itself. > >Talk about making lemonade from lemons - the artist was going to make that >shattered piece into a mosaic and thereby save the beauty. > >By the way - they were also making stepping stones from previously fused >pieces. Looked great! Barbara > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 09:10:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6JUJ-00012ha; Mon, 8 Apr 96 09:08 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sun Pattern Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:07:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199604081607.MAA23573@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Cath! >>I'm looking for a pattern that features a sun, preferably with a >>smiling face and lots of rays. Any leads? The best sun pattern I have found is in the book "This and That 1" by GlasDesigns. Regards, Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 09:41:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6JyV-00018fa; Mon, 8 Apr 96 09:39 PDT X-Path: elixir.isu.edu!CATHY From: "Catherine Heyneman" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sun Pattern Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:40:30 +0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr8.174030.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: ISU College of Pharmacy Precedence: bulk Dear Stephanie, Thanks for your reply - I'll check it out! Cath ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 13:00:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6N5u-0000g8a; Mon, 8 Apr 96 12:59 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: test Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:59:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr8.115914.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Is it just me or is everybody getting someone's undeliverable mail from Microsoft mail?? Sending this to see if I have a problem. Thanks for the indulgence. Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 13:03:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6N8o-0001D1a; Mon, 8 Apr 96 13:02 PDT X-Path: aol.com!LegalSteph From: LegalSteph@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: test Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 16:02:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr8.12215.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Not just you getting bad messages, Barbara. I just got added to mailing list, and got a bunch of undeliverable messages among the good stuff - I thought maybe it was just me!! Steph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 13:49:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6Nr8-0001J0a; Mon, 8 Apr 96 13:48 PDT X-Path: max.state.ia.us!jwhite From: Jolene White To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: test Date: Mon, 8 Apr 96 15:54 CDT Message-ID: <1.5.4b12.16.19960408145433.439fc9f8@max.state.ia.us> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have been getting the same message. Hope they get it figured out soon, if they haven't already! At 03:59 PM 4/8/96 -0400, you wrote: >Is it just me or is everybody getting someone's undeliverable mail from >Microsoft mail?? >Sending this to see if I have a problem. Thanks for the indulgence. Barbara >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 14:48:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6OmR-0001Gda; Mon, 8 Apr 96 14:47 PDT X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: test Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 14:47:16 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: test" on Apr 8, 15:59, BLFstar@aol.com writes:] > Is it just me or is everybody getting someone's undeliverable mail from > Microsoft mail?? This person's mail started bouncing for some reason or another and their postmaster send the messages to the group. We think we got this problem recified. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 15:51:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6PlN-0001J9a; Mon, 8 Apr 96 15:50 PDT X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu (Kathe R. McDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: test Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199604082250.PAA07120@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi. I've recently subscribed and am trying to find Grateful Dead patterns. Any leads? (PS Nice group) Kathe R. McDonald Office of Curricular Support "Aint no time to hate." J. Garcia 1995 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 18:22:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6S8F-0001Ila; Mon, 8 Apr 96 18:22 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: test "Microsoft undeliverables" of 8.4.96 Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:19:27 +0000 Message-ID: <199604090122.CAA09720@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, am dipping my toe into the water here for the first time, a little nervously. I got those messages too and could for the life of me not understand what was going on. At least - IT WASN'T ME !! Re: Smiling suns and sunrays ideas: Ed Sibbeett in his prolific pattern books have one or two in his "suncatcher" books, at least as a starting point; Another source - and don't laugh - are children's colouring-in books (they are also cheap!). I find them great for ideas for all sorts of things, including stylized animals....and their suns are always smiling. Once I get some scanning facilities working, I hope I can contribute more visual offerings of help and ideas. Re: Grinder tongs: I think you either cut / trim glass, or you have nails.... not both - at least not professionally. My Computer Guru has put together my WWW "Home Page" for me, which is already up and running (if as yet not quite complete). It will tell you more about me and my work. Am enjoying the discussions..you sound a great bunch. Bye for now. Tobynco ---- North Lights Stained Glass As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 8 21:09:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6UiD-0000hNa; Mon, 8 Apr 96 21:07 PDT X-Path: detroit.freenet.org!ae479 From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: stepping stones Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 23:30:20 -0400 Message-ID: <199604090330.XAA09946@detroit.freenet.org> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk A friend has asked me whether it would be possible for me to make stepping stones to be included in a driveway he will be pouring. Has anyone experience with such a project. Am concerned not so much with the stones as their effect on the rest of the concrete driveway. Thanks. Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org -- p ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 9 04:36:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6bQO-0000tVa; Tue, 9 Apr 96 04:17 PDT X-Path: rmplc.co.uk!mdcglas From: mdcglas@rmplc.co.uk (Phil Speedwell) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Thanks! Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:16:01 +0100 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Everyone, Thanks for your replys to my query about the round leaded panel. I got a lot of very useful tips from every-one and am using a combination of them and the panel is slowly taking shape. It's great having access to such a wealth of experience. Phil PS Dusty I'll contact you directly about your visit to Scotland ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 9 06:42:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6ddp-0001Cpa; Tue, 9 Apr 96 06:39 PDT X-Path: aol.com!SClark4647 From: SClark4647@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: stepping stones Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:39:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr9.53917.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am also very interested in the stepping stones, and would like to know if it is possible to use the premade ones that you can buy at Builder's Square, or do have to be made from scratch, and if so, where do you find the molds. Not very experienced in this new type of glass and masonry work, but have a husband with some concrete experience. Shelli ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 9 06:44:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6dgN-0000r5a; Tue, 9 Apr 96 06:42 PDT X-Path: aol.com!SClark4647 From: SClark4647@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: test Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:42:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr9.5420.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Grateful Dead patterns? Cool idea! Let me know if you have any luck - but I think you may end up with a projector and and large piece of paper on the wall of a dark room. Good luck. Shelli "What goes around comes around" - not profound, but definately true. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 9 10:28:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6hBZ-00018Qa; Tue, 9 Apr 96 10:26 PDT X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu (Kathe R. McDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Patterns Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 10:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199604091726.KAA19727@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I've recently joined the group and am appreciative of the helpful tips and nice folks! I'm looking for a Grateful Dead pattern for a window. Anyone have any leads? Kathe R. McDonald Office of Curricular Support "Aint no time to hate." J. Garcia 1995 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 9 10:38:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6hLu-0000Xea; Tue, 9 Apr 96 10:37 PDT X-Path: aol.com!RTMEMT From: RTMEMT@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com, kris@gardencitynet.co.uk Subject: Re: Problem viewing stained glass graphics Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 13:35:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr9.93546.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Kris, "All of the text that has been written appears fine with no problem. In the area where your photos are to appear... I see nothing but an AOL symbol's with the name of the photo under it. For some reason I can't view any of your graphics on the web no matter how long I wait. For some reason it seems like my computer just locks up. I've tried to reload the program but still no luck." In using a friend's system, I noticed aol 's default in the pref's menu (on the web) was set to show no graphics using 2400 baud. Have you checked this? Make the change and then access the url. This worked for me. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 9 15:32:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6lwx-0000xla; Tue, 9 Apr 96 15:31 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!glaslady From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patterns Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 18:32:54 -0400 Message-ID: <199604092232.SAA28072@mailserver1.tiac.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk kathe >I've recently joined the group and am appreciative of the helpful tips and >nice folks! I'm looking for a Grateful Dead pattern for a window. Anyone >have any leads? > do my favorite trick - find a poster/picture and photocopy it or scan it - then clean up the copy. Last year one of my students did a large rendition of the Klimt lovers using fused glass (using specturm , by the way) for the opatterned cloth. he scanned in a small photo of the painting, tweedled around a bit on the design, then sent it to a plotter at 3 x 5 ft..... used the pattern to lay out the to-be-fused pieces.... Judy in Northern MA Glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 9 15:35:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6lzX-0000xPa; Tue, 9 Apr 96 15:34 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!glaslady From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: begineers in continuing class Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 18:35:55 -0400 Message-ID: <199604092235.SAA28289@mailserver1.tiac.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk many thanks to all of you who offered support/suggestions on dealing with my new folks in tahe advanced class. I had planned on nicely lowering the boom tomorrow - and suggesting that they might want to switch to the Thursday night (same time/same place) class, but since we're supposed to get 8-12 inches of heavy wet snow tonight, I'm not sure that there will be classes tomorrow. if so, will let you know the outcome. ttfn Judy in Northern MA Glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 9 16:05:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6mSo-0000XOa; Tue, 9 Apr 96 16:04 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Strain77 From: Strain77@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patterns Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 19:04:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr9.15433.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I take it that you are in the Sacramento area as the address is ucdavis.com. There's a shop on the K street mall that has lazer art for sale. (Can't think of the name of it right now). Anyway about a year ago i bought a round (about 5 inch diameter) Grateful Dead logo decoration. I Xeroxed it and blew it up and then traced it onto pattern paper. You might think about shopping some of the record shops in town as well like Virgin records in Arden Fair or Tower. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 9 17:45:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6o0h-00018Ca; Tue, 9 Apr 96 17:43 PDT X-Path: metrolink.net!bodgesfl From: bodgesfl@metrolink.net (bodgesfl) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: http://www.bungi.com/glass/digest-9503 Date: Tue, 09 Apr 96 19:40:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr9.124038.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk http://www.bungi.com/glass/digest-9503 Hope that I have delivered this to the right place. I have searched EVERY search engine that I can find, looking for a bottle cutter. K-Tel made one many years ago. I am looking for either a new or used one to use as a prototype, or I would like to find a manufacturer as I need a large quantity of them. Thanks for the help. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 9 18:49:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6p0k-0001AVa; Tue, 9 Apr 96 18:47 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grinder tongs Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 18:46:52 -0700 Message-ID: <199604100146.SAA21967@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Hi everyone, this is Carol >I think we are missing the obvious here. >why is everyone grinding so much that their fingers are being worn down? Here,here. throw away your grinders!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 9 22:33:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6sW1-0000uwa; Tue, 9 Apr 96 22:32 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: begineers in continuing class Date: Tue Apr 9 22:32:20 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr9.222654-0700pdt.205746-24097+283@orb.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: >many thanks to all of you who offered support/suggestions on dealing with my >new folks in tahe advanced class. I had planned on nicely lowering the boom >tomorrow - and suggesting that they might want to switch to the Thursday >night (same time/same place) class, but since we're supposed to get 8-12 >inches of heavy wet snow tonight, I'm not sure that there will be classes >tomorrow. > >if so, will let you know the outcome. > >ttfn >Judy in Northern MA >Glaslady@tiac.net > Just wanted to wish you luck with your class tommorrow. And just to rub it in a little, (your 8-12" of snow) I sitting here 10:00pm 13 C. in my shorts. Tulips are out & so is the patio furniture. Interior of B.C. today we had 24 C. which is 78'F. Karin > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 9 23:04:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6t0O-0001ASa; Tue, 9 Apr 96 23:03 PDT X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: Elaine & Howard Rubin To: Michael Smoucha Subject: Re: Grinder tongs Date: Tue, 09 Apr 96 23:01:51 -0500 Message-ID: <199604100603.XAA27779@desiree.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Cut closer, grind less! -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Tuesday, 09-Apr-96 06:46 PM From: Michael Smoucha \ Internet: (izzy3@ix.netcom.com) To: Glass list \ Internet: (glass@bungi.com) Subject: Re: Grinder tongs You wrote: > >Hi everyone, this is Carol >I think we are missing the obvious here. >why is everyone grinding so much that their fingers are being worn down? Here,here. throw away your grinders!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- -- UNDER CONSTRUCTION... http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/hrubin.htm http://www.teleport.com/~weaver51 Elaine and Howard, mastering technology one byte at a time! E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 10 03:59:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6xOh-000109a; Wed, 10 Apr 96 03:45 PDT X-Path: ste0426.wins.icl.co.uk!C.J.Horrobin From: C.J.Horrobin@ste0426.wins.icl.co.uk To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: http://www.bungi.com/glass/digest-9503 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 11:40:54 +0100 Message-ID: <1996Apr10.124054.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk By a bottle cutter I presume you mean the device which allows you to turn a bottle into a drinking glass etc? I'm sure I have one on the "it'll come in useful one day" shelf in the garage. Now the difficult point - where are you? - I'm in England. Kris ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 10 04:50:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u6yIZ-0000pIa; Wed, 10 Apr 96 04:42 PDT X-Path: aol.com!APasquini From: APasquini@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: http://www.bungi.com/glass/digest-9503 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 07:41:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr10.34142.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk please cancell my subscription thank your apasquini ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 10 08:10:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u71UV-0000kna; Wed, 10 Apr 96 08:07 PDT X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu (Kathe R. McDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patterns Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 08:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199604101507.IAA27871@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk THANKS! Kathe R. McDonald Office of Curricular Support "Aint no time to hate." J. Garcia 1995 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 10 08:55:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u72Ca-000194a; Wed, 10 Apr 96 08:53 PDT X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: New Link at my website Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 08:52:46 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I would encourage you to visit the new link off my web page, Tashiro stained and leaded glass. He has done some beautiful work and I found it to be quite inspirational. Enjoy! -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 10 12:15:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u75KV-0000dYa; Wed, 10 Apr 96 12:13 PDT X-Path: calvin.stemnet.nf.ca!rcrane From: "Robert M. Crane" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patterns Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:39:05 -0230 (NDT) Message-ID: <1996Apr10.7515.0> References: <<199604051330.IAA18987@lucid.idirect.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk anyone out there have or know where I can find patterns for sandblasting? Any help would be appreciated ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 10 12:18:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u75Np-0000bka; Wed, 10 Apr 96 12:16 PDT X-Path: compuserve.com!101670.3010 From: "Philip M. Kenchatt" <101670.3010@compuserve.com> To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: stepping stones Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 14:16:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr10.101656.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi I don't know if this will help, but have you thought of using Dalle de Verre. These are 1 x 12 x 8 inch slabs of coloured glass which are cut, faceted and set in either epoxy-resin or concrete. The effect in a large window is stunning. Contact Blenko Glass Co. Tel: (304) 743-9081 Fax: (304) 743-0547 regards to all, Phil ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 10 13:41:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u76g3-00012Xa; Wed, 10 Apr 96 13:39 PDT X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu (Kathe R. McDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patterns Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 13:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199604102039.NAA26515@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Robert, I have an old book at home I can look for. I'll see what's in it. You can reach me directly at krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu Kathe R. McDonald Office of Curricular Support "Aint no time to hate." J. Garcia 1995 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 10 14:04:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u772p-0000oYa; Wed, 10 Apr 96 14:03 PDT X-Path: microsoft.com!a-mattla From: "Matthew Lang (S&T Onsite)" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: Pattern searches Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 14:02:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr10.7256.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk As I have read the stream of mail concerning sources for patterns, I continue to wonder whether people are aware of copyright considerations. For those who create windows simply for their own enjoyment this is a moot point. However, those who doing paid work should be sensitive to the copyright status of your source materials. Unless your works are original, in the public domain, you have permission from the artist/creator, or you have perchased/licensed rights to use an image, you may be in violation of copyright law. While copyright is a very complex legal issue, at the core of copyright law is an ethical question of whether your use of an image will deprive the original artist of any possible income. Not only must you be able to answer, "No" to this question, you must also document the grounds by which you can clearly show that there is no copyright violation. As a result of developments in the digital image field, there is a spate of literature in periodicals about copyright. Also, the government copyright office has several good publications about various aspects of copyright. They can also perform copyright searches for you. There are a number of fine copyright attourneys out there who can also be very helpful. Many reference librarians can offer help in copyright research. Finally, there is a periodical called The Public Domain report that documents various types of media that have come into the public domain. With so many fine resources out there to help working professionals, why not take the time to not only find out about YOUR copyrights, but to honor the legal rights of others? Matthew A. Lang Matthew Lang x-20751 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 10 17:37:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7ANK-0000pQa; Wed, 10 Apr 96 17:36 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Scan1996 From: Scan1996@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patterns Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 20:36:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr10.163626.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I recently sandblasted a pattern on a box that I made. Transfer a pattern that you like onto contact paper (for shelves) and stick it to the glass. Then, take an X-acto knife and carve off the contact paper in places to be blasted. It works really well. But remember, replace your blade every 5 to 10 minutes. From, Sandy in western MA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 10 19:23:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7C1S-0000Rqa; Wed, 10 Apr 96 19:22 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patterns Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 19:21:09 -0700 Message-ID: <199604110221.TAA15809@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >anyone out there have or know where I can find patterns for sandblasting? >Any help would be appreciated >---- >I dont know where you are located, but in the Chicago area there is a company called the JPD group that supplies sandblast patterns already cut on a resist that you just apply and weed. they work great!! I dont have the phone # off hand but can get it if you are inteested. If you go there tell them I sent you. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 11 08:11:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7O0i-0000Y6a; Thu, 11 Apr 96 08:10 PDT X-Path: wc1.wc.edu!warren From: Alan Warren To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Copyrights Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:10:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr11.51018.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk RE: Matthew A. Lang Matthew Lang x-20751 Copyrights --------------------------- It seems that the folks who sell patterns are in the business of selling patterns and not necessarily creating the glass art on those patterns for profit and since they have made their money selling the pattern they have not lost any income. I don't remember seeing any copyright notices in my pattern books that mentions reserving the right of creation of art glass for profit based on those patterns. In music, the copyright notice always adds the phrase "including the right for performance for profit". If an art glass pattern maker wants royalties on pieces sold based on their patterns, they should include a phrase similar to that used in music copyrights--"including the right of creating an art glass piece based on any pattern in this book for profit" since there is already an implied right to duplicate the pattern in the form of an art glass piece. Alan in Texas ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 11 08:27:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7OGn-0000XWa; Thu, 11 Apr 96 08:26 PDT X-Path: internexus.net!lwaldeck From: Lew Waldeck To: glass Subject: Kilns Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 11:25:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr11.42553.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Speak For Yourself Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any experience with glass kilns for use in a microwave oven. Can they be built? Any plans? Do they do the job? Mary Waldeck-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 11 13:15:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7SkF-0000pQa; Thu, 11 Apr 96 13:13 PDT X-Path: MENTORG.COM!becky_gerlach From: Becky Gerlach To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Writing on Glass Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 13:12:56 PDT Message-ID: <9604112012.AA21139@glass> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk So I'm going to do a new baby project, and I would like to "write" the baby's name on the glass with something that won't come off or chip off when it's cleaned in the future. I've tried those permanent markers, but they wash off with window cleaner. I've heard something about paint, but keep in mind that I have no kiln or any other device to bake it on, other than my regular oven. I could really use some leads to some products, and experiences using them. Thanks, Becky Gerlach (Newbie and loving it.) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 11 14:49:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7UDN-00015wa; Thu, 11 Apr 96 14:47 PDT X-Path: prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Writing on Glass Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 17:37:28 EDT Message-ID: <096.05744371.MPGP79B@prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Becky, you might want to investigate chemical etching cream and rub-on stencils as a possible low-tech solution. They come in picture designs and alphabets. You rub on the stencil, brush on glass etching cream, wait 5 minutes and wash off stencil and cream with tap water, leaving the etched pattern on the glass. Warner Crivellaro ~1-800-523-4242~ (and no doubt Delphi and others) carry the supplies if you can't find them locally. Good luck with your project! Peggy > So I'm going to do a new baby project, and I would like to "write" the > baby's name on the glass with something that won't come off or chip off > when it's cleaned in the future. > > I've tried those permanent markers, but they wash off with window cleaner. > I've heard something about paint, but keep in mind that I have no kiln or > any other device to bake it on, other than my regular oven. > > I could really use some leads to some products, and experiences using > them. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 11 14:54:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7UJU-00016Fa; Thu, 11 Apr 96 14:54 PDT X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu (Kathe R. McDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Writing on Glass Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 14:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199604112153.OAA23527@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk How about sandblasting it or acid etching it? You can get "template patterns" in a glass shop. Acid costs just a couple of dollars. Sandblasting looks better, but either one will permanently "etch" your glass. I once did that on a black champagne bottle for a wedding shower and it turned out nice. Kathe R. McDonald Office of Curricular Support "Aint no time to hate." J. Garcia 1995 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 11 16:21:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7VeL-0001B9a; Thu, 11 Apr 96 16:19 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grinder tongs Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 19:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199604112312.TAA21481@brutus.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 06:46 PM 4/9/96 -0700, you wrote: >You wrote: >> > >>Hi everyone, this is Carol >>I think we are missing the obvious here. >>why is everyone grinding so much that their fingers are being worn >down? >Here,here. throw away your grinders!! Sometimes people don't say whether they are doing lead projects or copper foil. I always wondered why everyone said you really don't need to grind until I realized they were talking about lead, when I was doing all copper foil. Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 11 20:29:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7ZVI-0000Xea; Thu, 11 Apr 96 20:26 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Writing on Glass Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 20:23:26 -0700 Message-ID: <199604120323.UAA26184@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > >So I'm going to do a new baby project, and I would like to "write" the >baby's name on the glass with something that won't come off or chip >off when it's cleaned in the future. > > One posibility is to use an epoxy based paint. Though it is not nearly as hard as a fired on paint it will stand up to casual cleaning. There are also some low fireing paint (Oven temps) on the market, though I doubt these would work any better than epoxy paint. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 11 22:25:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7bJF-0000q8a; Thu, 11 Apr 96 22:22 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Copyrights Date: Thu Apr 11 22:22:06 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr11.221613-0700pdt.205896-11233+298@orb.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >RE:Copyrights my 2 cents worth. Laws are open to interpertation. And it is generally not until you get to court & then it is the judges interpertation of the law and he will use precedents. Anyway, As I see it, the publications may be used for personal only, ie. the patterns themselves shouldn't be reproduced and sold for profit,if a glass store copied & then resold the patterns this I believe would be an infringement. The patterns could be copied and given away. The other point is that when glass people use these patterns they are never "exactly" as the pattern shows. Some patterns are not okay to use as copied and need to be adjusted. Also, the other consideration is the country in which the copyright is registered, in the USA only, or Continenal Canada & US or world wide. I think inorder to get the literal interpertation we need to look at how the book/pattern is registered. I have a tendancy to agree with Alan, and I certainly wouldn't worry about it until I saw someone doing some sabre rattling. My thoughts only. Karin > >Matthew A. Lang >Matthew Lang >x-20751 >Copyrights >--------------------------- > >It seems that the folks who sell patterns are in the business of selling >patterns and not necessarily creating the glass art on those patterns for >profit and since they have made their money selling the pattern they have >not lost any income. I don't remember seeing any copyright notices in my >pattern books that mentions reserving the right of creation of art glass >for profit based on those patterns. In music, the copyright notice always >adds the phrase "including the right for performance for profit". If an art >glass pattern maker wants royalties on pieces sold based on their patterns, >they should include a phrase similar to that used in music >copyrights--"including the right of creating an art glass piece based on >any pattern in this book for profit" since there is already an implied >right to duplicate the pattern in the form of an art glass piece. > >Alan in Texas > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 12 05:30:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7hyO-0000hma; Fri, 12 Apr 96 05:29 PDT X-Path: YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu!UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Why grind: was Re: Grinder tongs Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 08:22:31 EDT Message-ID: <960412.082855.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<199604112312.TAA21481@brutus.bright.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In my opinion...even the cleanest, most accurate cuts sometimes "cave" a little, or have fine, sharp corners. I swipe every piece along my grinder (except mirror), just to get a flat DULL edge for foiling. And there are those nibs left on curves which grozing just doesn't do completely accurately. Off on a glass shopping trip tomorrow! (Can you imagine. I've only got 1/2 sq ft of glue chip left!) -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 12 05:44:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7iC7-0000vla; Fri, 12 Apr 96 05:43 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Writing on Glass Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 08:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199604121242.IAA14576@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Becky! >So I'm going to do a new baby project, and I would like to "write" the >baby's name on the glass with something that won't come off or chip >off when it's cleaned in the future. > >I've tried those permanent markers, but they wash off with window cleaner. >I've heard something about paint, but keep in mind that I have no >kiln or any other device to bake it on, other than my regular oven. You can use the Plaid "Ultra Gloss" paints which come in squeeze bottles. Plaid also have a writing tip which can be screwed on the end of these bottles. All you have to do it fire them on in the oven. One caution, though. Make sure the glass is absolutely clean in the areas you paint on. Good Luck! Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 12 07:53:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7kCU-0000IVa; Fri, 12 Apr 96 07:51 PDT X-Path: gr.cns.net!Pristine From: Pristine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Writing on Glass Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 09:51:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr12.25159.0> References: <<199604121242.IAA14576@vixa.voyager.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Pristine Glass Co. Precedence: bulk > >So I'm going to do a new baby project, and I would like to "write" the > >baby's name on the glass with something that won't come off or chip > >off when it's cleaned in the future.I would recommend the brand DEKA enamel paint. It can be low fired in your oven at home. It is VERY durable. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- * mickey mackenzie for Pristine Glass Co. * pristine@gr.cns.net * http://www.cns.net/pristine also * mickey@grfn.org * http://www.grfn.org/~mickey ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 12 15:47:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u7rba-0000tda; Fri, 12 Apr 96 15:46 PDT X-Path: gnn.com!dbaldinger From: dbaldinger@gnn.com (David Baldinger) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Copyrights (sort of long) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 18:46:48 Message-ID: <199604122245.SAA24731@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Greetings glass artists and crafters! This is my first attempt at submiiting my .000001 cents worth so here goes: As a practicing professional artist, the matter of copyright infringement is of great concern. While it is safe for most crafters to utilize someone else's design for their "own use' you venture into dangerous territory by selling anything made using someone else's design work or recognizable ideas. If I were to stumble across a window that was made and sold using a design or image that I had created, I would definitely drag someone to court. Someone posted previously that they liked to use coloring books as a source for patterns. This is fine for personal use but NOT for commercial applications. Just ask anyone who the Disney company caught using their characters for a business logo or sign. I would be very cautious with even pattern books. If in doubt, call the publisher to find out if using their designs for commercial use is Ok. I have seen pattern books have a disclaimer about being for personal use only. With the availability of scanning, the problem has grown tremendously. Folks, if you didn't draw it, design it or concieve it, it ain't yours! Don't let the notion that everyone is doing it make you think it's alright. You probably won't get caught, but then again, you may someday. It is my feeble opinion that too many glass artists rely on ready-made patterns. I've been to so many craft shows where most glass booths were indistinguisable from each other. Be original! By all means, study other artists and learn from them. Let you own hand make marks on a sheet of paper. I think the best thing you can do is get a copy of the copyright law from: Superintendent of Documents US Government Printing Office Washington DC 20402-9371 Stock number 030-002-00168-3 circular 92 telephone 202-783-3238 fax 202-275-0019 Hopefully, my info isn't too dated. This stuff is probably on-line somewhere. -Please excuse my typos and the probability that my text didn't wrap to fit your screens. I'm having problems with my configuration. Everything is set correctly, it just refuses to work! David ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 13 14:47:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8D81-0000raa; Sat, 13 Apr 96 14:45 PDT X-Path: po.cwru.edu!txh4 From: txh4@po.cwru.edu (Theodore P. Hasenstaub) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Copyrights Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 17:44:57 -0400 Message-ID: <199604132144.RAA18642@cornelius.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk There seems to be quite a discussion going on about copyrights and what infrigement is. I hereby throw my .015 cent worth in. To me their seems to be 2 sets of standards to look at when working for profit with glass items. A good example is Tiffany style lamps. Everyone makes and sells these lamps which are exact duplicates of ones that Tiffany himself produced. However I don't see anyone, Including Tiffanys of New York complaning about it. What gives? If you build and sell one of these lamps are you a copyright infringement criminal? I've never heard of anyone going to jail or getting pulled into court for building a Tiffany lamp. Every one is complaining that you can't reproduce an item already thoughtof and then turn around and sell it for a profit. Someone please explin this parody to me. Ted ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 13 15:16:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8Dbh-0000V0a; Sat, 13 Apr 96 15:15 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: Janie Hendershott To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Copyrights Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 15:17:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr13.81724.0> References: <<199604132144.RAA18642@cornelius.INS.CWRU.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > To me their seems to > be 2 sets of standards to look at when working for profit with glass items. > A good example is Tiffany style lamps. Everyone makes and sells these lamps > which are exact duplicates of ones that Tiffany himself produced. However I > don't see anyone, Including Tiffanys of New York complaning about it. What > gives? If you build and sell one of these lamps are you a copyright > infringement criminal? I've never heard of anyone going to jail or getting > pulled into court for building a Tiffany lamp. Every one is complaining that > you can't reproduce an item already thoughtof and then turn around and sell > it for a profit. Someone please explin this parody to me. In addition, people sell patterns copied directly from these lamps! And the Tiffany lamps are reproduced in the same medium. I can understand and agree with the fact that you cannot photocopy an pattern and sell it, however, I don't see why you cannot reproduce the pattern in glass and sell it. Many of the sites on the internet have obvious copies of published pattern made up in glass and for sale. Also I have seen published patterns in books that are modified copies of clip art in Corel software. So it seems that that type of copying is far closer to being illegal infringement that reproducing in glass??? Any legal eagles out there?? Janie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 13 22:13:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8K70-0000nHa; Sat, 13 Apr 96 22:12 PDT X-Path: cetlink.net!karlp From: "Karl L. Preisach" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Stained glass lamps Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 01:10:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr13.181025.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I would appreciate it very much if someone could help me in finding a supplier of wiring,downrods,candelabra,etc. for completing stained glass chandeliers. Thanks; Karl karlp@cetlink.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 05:07:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8QZO-0000QTa; Sun, 14 Apr 96 05:06 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: What's in a name? Date: 14 Apr 96 08:04:05 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr14.1245.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm just curious: where did the name of this list come from? "Bungi"? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 05:07:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8QZO-0000x9a; Sun, 14 Apr 96 05:06 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Copyrights Date: 14 Apr 96 08:03:57 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr14.12357.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ----Forwarded Message(s)---- > I'm new to this "mailing list" business, so I'm not sure you'll see my > comments to Ted about copyrights generally. Let me know and I'll forward a > copy to you. Okay, let me see if I have this right, Janie. I'm "forwarding" this to the list at large, so everyone will see it. (As a TechSupp in the Glass section of the Handcrafts Forum on CompuServe, I'm accustomed to the fact that any answer in the open forum is automatically seen by everyone who visits ... an advantage, by my way of thinking, since if one person has a question on a certain subject (like yours, on copyright), there are others who have or may eventually have the same question. Answers seen by a larger group are more helpful, I think, than answering the same question over and over. To recap (and I'll be less repetitive in future, I promise): >There seems to be quite a discussion going on about copyrights >and what infrigement is. I hereby throw my .015 cent worth in. To >me their seems to be 2 sets of standards to look at when working >for profit with glass items. A good example is Tiffany style >lamps. Everyone makes and sells these lamps which are exact >duplicates of ones that Tiffany himself produced. However I don't >see anyone, Including Tiffanys of New York complaning about it. >What gives? > >Ted There aren't really two sets of standards with regard to copyright. Even if Tiffany had copyrighted his designs (and he didn't), the protection would have run out long ago. A copyright is only good for the life of its owner, plus 52 years. Of course, if Tiffany & Company -- a corporation whose life never ends until it goes out of business -- had owned those copyrights, the protection *would still be in force and they *would be complaining about their designs being infringed upon. But they didn't, so they don't. >In addition, people sell patterns copied directly from these >lamps! And the Tiffany lamps are reproduced in the same medium. I >can understand and agree with the fact that you cannot photocopy >an pattern and sell it, however, I don't see why you cannot >reproduce the pattern in glass and sell it. > >Janie Since Tiffany never copyrighted his designs, publishers are perfectly free these days to make up pattern books that incorporate them. It's legal for you to use the patterns to create lamps (for example) and to sell those lamps; it wouldn't be legal for you to copy the *books and sell *books of patterns! As for other people's creative work, it's automatically covered under current copyright law (which is different than the law in effect during Tiffany's time). They don't have to register the copyright to stop anyone else from copying their work, but they can't collect any damages (read: "money") from those who infringe on their design. So: you *can* sell the work created from copyrighted books of copyrighted patterns -- you *cannot* copy the patterns, make a book and sell books. And no, I'm not a lawyer. I've just answered this question a few times. I think any attorney will pretty much agree, though. >Thank you for an understandable explaination of this confusing >and confused subject. In my mind, I had a feeling that is how it >is, but was unsure enough that I did not want to get into >trouble. Reading the copyright notices in some books is enough >to scare you into hiding even personal pieces. :-} Well, you don't have to hide your work. If copyright notices are alarming and frightening, remember that the publishers do have some interest in protecting their investment in time and money. Just because some of the designs could arguably not be defended by them in court doesn't mean that they won't try to make you *think they *could be. You, too, could create patterns derived from old pieces, prepare them for press and publish books of them. After doing all that work, even if the pieces on which your "new" patterns were based were the *same as those on which others' published patterns are based, you'd want to protect your work ... and those others wouldn't have a leg to stand on, because you'd have created "new" patterns from the actual pieces, just as they had. But your patterns would be "different" than theirs because you made them up from scratch all by yourself, see? Your house sounds really nice. My wife and I fiddle around with our 200-year-old farmhouse, too, but there's not much stained glass in it. A couple of Frank Lloyd Wright sample squares that she uses in lectures; medieval-looking medallions handpainted as a gift to us from a French friend of ours; a couple of contemporary pieces ... but nothing installed in the architecture itself. Glad you enjoyed the Light Show in NJ during the show. That's pretty much been mothballed ... it's too expensive to mount, alas. Thanks for your warm welcome. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Tonetta Lake Road *** Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 05:44:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8R9e-0000ima; Sun, 14 Apr 96 05:43 PDT X-Path: server.northernnet.com!hensley From: Mike & Jodi Hensley To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Sheep Patterns Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 07:44:46 -0500 Message-ID: <199604141244.HAA12035@server.northernnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am new to the group and, up to this point, I have just been listening. However, I am looking for a sheep farm pattern. I have asked the local store and they informed me that they had never seen a sheep pattern. I asked mail order and same response. I am really new to stain glass and I do not feel comfortable drawing my own pattern yet. Also, I have looked for coloring books, but all I find are the mickey mouse, lion king, etc. Not the type of coloring books that were around when I was a kid. I raise sheep for a wool and yarn business and I thought it would be nice to have something that tied my new found art and my business together. Any help would be appreciated. Jodi (hensley@northernnet.com) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 07:10:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8STY-0000lLa; Sun, 14 Apr 96 07:08 PDT X-Path: interserv.com!ebsousa From: ebsousa@interserv.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Lamp and candelabra parts Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 07:08:01 -0700 Message-ID: <199604141408.AA17304@relay.interserv.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Karl, I have two glass supply catalogs that sell lighting hardware: Whittemore-Durgin Glass Co. 1-800-262-1790 or Fax 1-800-786-3457 (just reading their unique catalog is an enjoyable experience in itself) Warner-Crivellaro 1-800-523-4242 I have found both of these companies reliable , I am sure their are others but these are the two I happen to have on hand. Donna S. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 07:10:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8STd-0000RQa; Sun, 14 Apr 96 07:08 PDT X-Path: interserv.com!ebsousa From: ebsousa@interserv.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Grinders Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 07:08:06 -0700 Message-ID: <199604141408.AA17311@relay.interserv.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just like to add my two cents worth to the grinder question. I agree with Joyce that grinding is necessary when using foil. I usually end up with sharp edges and points on the glass edge that tear the foil and cut my fingers while crimping, so I grind every edge at least slightly. However I do agree that it is an easy trap to fall into ,especially for a beginner, to use the grinder as a substitute for accurate cutting. If you want to develope your skills to the utmost this should be avoided. However, (and I hope the purists out there don't faint at what I am about to say) if you are a hobbyist just enjoying yourself and are happy with the results of your work then I don't think it really matters how you get there. Just keep having fun . Donna S. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 10:20:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8VSF-000121a; Sun, 14 Apr 96 10:19 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Sheep Patterns Date: 14 Apr 96 13:16:48 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr14.171648.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I am looking for a sheep farm pattern. Jodi, You might try these people ... they just came out with a zillion (well, 17) different patterns-on-disks for PC and Mac: Hackney Designs, 300 Myrna Lane, Cave Junction OR 97523-9648. Phone: (541) 592-6752. E-mail: hackney@cdsnet.net __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 10:44:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8VqC-00010Ha; Sun, 14 Apr 96 10:44 PDT X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Copyrights Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 13:43:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr14.94346.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I believe from talking to several people about this issue, that the copyright law is only in question if you make something for a profit when there is a disclaimer on the pattern stating "for personal use only". Or when copying your pattern for someone else, instead of them buying them themselves. I can understand that if I were publishing patterns to sell, that it would take away from my profit if someone bought my pattern the copied it for all their friends or started spreading it around the internet. Also if you do your own designs you can't "borrow" part of someones copyrighted design and then sell it or copyright it, it mut be original. I think it's only fair. JMHO... Janet IMN2GLASS@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 11:26:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8WUZ-0000eSa; Sun, 14 Apr 96 11:25 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Copyrights Date: 14 Apr 96 14:23:06 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr14.18236.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >the copyright law is only in question if you make something for a profit >when there is a disclaimer on the pattern stating "for personal use >only". Well, as I said, I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that you can make an object exactly as outlined by any pattern ... *and you can sell that object. That would be "personal use." You cannot legally -- as you point out -- copy the pattern for anyone else, much less post the pattern on the internet. Since someone else would be using it, that wouldn't be "personal use" and you would have infringed on the owner's copyright. I think you're wrong about borrowing part of someone else's copyrighted design, though. If you make it part of your design, then it's your entire design that's copyrighted to you, but there would be a restriction on how *much of the other design you "quoted" under what's called "Fair Use," a very subjective question. In written materials, for example, to quote 2-3 lines of text from a 250-page book would be "fair use" -- you wouldn't have to ask for permission from the copyright owner and it wouldn't be considered an infringement of copyright. But 2-3 lines from a haiku poem would be the majority of the poem ... unfair use. Personally, I've seen instances of pattern publishers who announce strict copyright protection of their stuff ... and at the same time admit that some (or most) of the material is from other sources unknown to them, that they are publishing it without permission because they couldn't find out who owned it. Pretty brave of them, eh? Of course, if push came to shove in a court of law, they'd have a hard time proving that *any of the patterns in a book with such an announcement would be (or should be) protected. Albert Lewis, IGGA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 11:38:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8Wgg-0000vva; Sun, 14 Apr 96 11:38 PDT X-Path: cdsnet.net!hackney From: hackney@cdsnet.net (Craig Hackney) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Sheep Pattern on disk Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 11:38:03 -0700 Message-ID: <199604141838.LAA22799@mail.cdsnet.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Jodi: I saw a response from Albert Lewis to your email regarding sheep patterns (thank you Albert). As Albert mentioned, we recently introduced 17 different categorized collections of patterns on disks (see below) for full descriptions. They are available through several of the larger wholesale and retail stained glass suppliers. We do have one sheep panel with border pattern and 2 cartoonistic lamb patterns as well as some patterns of rams available. If you are interested, please email us at Craig Hackney HACKNEY DESIGNS Announcing inexpensive stained glass pattern software. Hackney Designs is now shipping 17 different collections of stained glass patterns on 3.5" disks for IBM windows and Macintosh. Each disk contains 20 to 30 great patterns that can be manipulated utilizing your existing paint or drawing program. Just some of the manipulations you can perform on these patterns are: print unlimited copies, size up or down to any size you wish, print on one 8.5x11 sheet of paper or print on multiple sheets for large patterns, flip vertical, horizontal,left or right (to reverse pattern or cut out pattern on back), add lines, circles, arcs & text, cut and paste (to combine different patterns together), add color and texture (to preview finished piece before you start cutting glass). You can use any paint or drawing program that recognizes the .BMP format for the IBM version or the bitmap/MACPAINT format for Macintosh. Such as MS Paintbrush, MS Desktop Publishing, ASL Paint, Paintshop Pro, Image & Bits, Lview Pro, Leadview and many others. There is a README file on each disk with complete instructions. Each disk comes in a very eye catching colorful package with complete instructions, a list of all patterns on the disk and manipulation capabilities on the outside of the package so it sells itself. Titles available are: TROPICAL BIRDS- macaws, cockatoos, toucans, cockatiels and lovebirds etc. WILD BIRDS- eagles, ducks, humming birds, peacocks and penquins etc. NITELIGHTS- flowers, animals, angels, child related, etc. FLOWERS- iris', roses, orchids, calla lillies, gardenias, tulips, pansies, poppies, etc. MARINE ANIMALS- whales, seals, starfish, sharks, clownfish, dolphin, sea horses, swordfish, walrus, sea turtles, etc. NAUTICAL SCENES- sailboats, power boats, lighthouses, mermaids, sea shells, anchors, etc. 2-D PROJECTS- humming birds, humming birds w/flower standing, standing butterfly lady, standing angels, candle holders, pencil holders, business card holders, etc. PANEL LAMP PATTERNS-panel lamp patterns for 4 sides, 6 sides, and 8 sides with information on vase caps, harps, & lamp bases WILD LIFE- deer, tiger, lion, squirrel, bear, raccoon, skunk FARM- horses, pigs, cows, chickens, and farm related scenes CATS- a various collection of cats DOGS- a various collection of dogs SUNCATCHERS I- animal suncatchers including butterflies SUNCATCHERS II- flowers SUNCATCHERS III- misc. such as rainbows, hearts, balloons, etc. MYTHICAL- dragons, wizards, castles, unicorns, pegasus, angels SCENIC- mountain scenes, wine/cheese scenes, wine related scenes, desert scenes, tree scenes, water scenes, etc. The Price for each disk is $10.99 or 3 for $30.00, 4 or more $9.00each Plus .75 cents for 1-3 disks, $1.50 for 4-6 disks or $4.00 for 7 or more to cover shipping and packaging. Send check or money order MADE PAYABLE TO CRAIG HACKNEY to: Craig Hackney Hackney Designs 300 Myrna Lane Cave Junction, OR 97523-9648 If you have any questions, please email us at: hackney@cdsnet.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 12:06:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8X7Y-0000tGa; Sun, 14 Apr 96 12:06 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep Patterns Date: Sun Apr 14 12:05:56 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr14.120046-0700pdt.309328-26186+95@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Jodi (hensley@northernnet.com) >Hi jodi, Welcome to the group. I believe I have only one sheep pattern, If you like I will post it to you. Post your address here or to me directly, which ever you prefer. It may take a little longer from here,( Canada) but you'll get it. Karin >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 13:52:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8YmB-0000mya; Sun, 14 Apr 96 13:52 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Sheep Pattern on disk Date: 14 Apr 96 16:50:26 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr14.205026.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hullo, Craig! Nice to see you here; I'm a newbie, myself, having only just begun reading/responding here. We just put 30 files of suppliers into Library 5 [GLASS] of the Handcrafts Forum on CompuServe, your company among them, natch. Hope they're helpful. Albert Lewis, IGGA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 18:14:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8crp-0000bka; Sun, 14 Apr 96 18:14 PDT X-Path: cdsnet.net!hackney From: hackney@cdsnet.net (Craig Hackney) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep Pattern on disk Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 18:13:59 -0700 Message-ID: <199604150113.SAA12635@mail.cdsnet.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Albert: Welcome to the group, there are alot of great people that partic- ipate in this forum, they all for the most part are very helpful to one another and it's a great place to learn and inlite. Thank you very much for thinking of us and for adding us to your Library. I'm sure we'll be talking soon until then take good care. Craig, Hackney Designs > > >Hullo, Craig! Nice to see you here; I'm a newbie, myself, having only just >begun reading/responding here. > >We just put 30 files of suppliers into Library 5 [GLASS] of the Handcrafts >Forum on CompuServe, your company among them, natch. Hope they're helpful. > >Albert Lewis, IGGA > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 19:10:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8dhs-000136a; Sun, 14 Apr 96 19:07 PDT X-Path: server.northernnet.com!hensley From: Mike & Jodi Hensley To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Sheep pattern Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 21:08:39 -0500 Message-ID: <199604150208.VAA08738@server.northernnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Karin, I would really like the sheep pattern. Thanks a bunch. If I can ever help you find a pattern, just let me know. My address is: Jodi Hensley 7992 Hayland Road Embarrass, MN 55732 USA Jodi ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 14 19:22:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8dud-0000O1a; Sun, 14 Apr 96 19:21 PDT X-Path: server.northernnet.com!hensley From: Mike & Jodi Hensley To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Sheep patterns Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 21:22:03 -0500 Message-ID: <199604150222.VAA09003@server.northernnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert, thank you for the information regarding Hackney Designs. Hopefully, they will have a sheep pattern. I really appreciate your help. Jodi ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 15 06:12:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8o2N-0000SRa; Mon, 15 Apr 96 06:09 PDT X-Path: mail.utexas.edu!kgbryant From: kgbryant@mail.utexas.edu (Kelly Bryant) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep Patterns Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 08:09:36 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jodi: It seems like I saw a pattern of a little shepard boy and some sheep on a farm. This was in one of the Stained Glass Quarterly magazines (I can't remember which issue, but it would be one within the last year). In the magazine they did it as a mosaic. Good luck. =================================================================== Kelly Bryant Placement Coordinator Department of Geological Sciences The University of Texas at Austin (512)471-4486 (512)471-9425 FAX kgbryant@mail.utexas.edu =================================================================== ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 15 09:41:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8rJz-00016Da; Mon, 15 Apr 96 09:40 PDT X-Path: MENTORG.COM!becky_gerlach From: Becky Gerlach To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Writing on Glass Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 09:39:48 PDT Message-ID: <9604151639.AA07654@glass> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Your message dated: Fri, 12 Apr 96 09:51:59 PDT > > >So I'm going to do a new baby project, and I would like to "write" the > > >baby's name on the glass with something that won't come off or chip > > >off when it's cleaned in the future.I would recommend the brand DEKA ename l paint. It can be low fired in > your oven at home. It is VERY durable. > -- > * mickey mackenzie for Pristine Glass Co. > * pristine@gr.cns.net * http://www.cns.net/pristine > also > * mickey@grfn.org * http://www.grfn.org/~mickey > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Well, my local store only had the DEKA brand paints (thanks to the rest of you all for the other suggestions). The actual instructions on the bottle don't mention "baking" the glass at all. It just says to let it dry for 2 hours. I assume that firing it will make it more durable, but I need some directions. Thanks again, Becky ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 15 14:09:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8vV9-0001Dta; Mon, 15 Apr 96 14:07 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Stepping stone forms Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 17:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199604152100.RAA02327@brutus.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Has anyone bought an economy stepping stone form recently? Can you tell me what you paid for it? I just got in a shipment, and would like to know the going rate. Thanks. Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 15 15:35:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8wp2-0001DJa; Mon, 15 Apr 96 15:32 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Copyright questions from Date: 15 Apr 96 18:29:12 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr15.222912.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Matthew, I did say I'm no attorney; I was just saying what I *understood to be the case. Of course, whether copyright is now 75 or 52 years is immaterial if LCT never copyrighted his designs in the first place, right? Don't you think Tiffany & Co. would have been in court years ago (say about the time that the lamps topped the quarter-million-$ mark at Christie's) enforcing their copyright? You betcha. Besides, if LCT *had copyrighted his designs (and registered those copyrights), and it's my understanding that he never *did, it would have been under the law then in effect ... not under the current law. At the moment, you don't have to send anything to the gummint for your original work to be protected; to collect damages, though, you do. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 15 15:38:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8wuM-0001E5a; Mon, 15 Apr 96 15:38 PDT X-Path: dialnet.net!kwood From: Ken Wood To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stepping stone forms Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 17:37:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Apr15.123754.0> References: <<199604152100.RAA02327@brutus.bright.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Joyce Moran wrote: > > Has anyone bought an economy stepping stone form recently? Can you tell me > what you paid for it? I just got in a shipment, and would like to know the > going rate. Thanks. > Joyce Moran Just bought the 16" hexagonal yesterday and paid $32.95 for it. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 15 15:57:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u8xBj-000107a; Mon, 15 Apr 96 15:56 PDT X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!rosochac From: "Lisa Anne Rosochacki" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stepping stone forms Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199604152255.SAA63804@pilot03.cl.msu.edu> References: <<199604152100.RAA02327@brutus.bright.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > Has anyone bought an economy stepping stone form recently? Can you tell me > what you paid for it? I just got in a shipment, and would like to know the > going rate. Thanks. > Joyce Moran > $22.95 is what our store sells them for. lisa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 15 18:57:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9007-000107a; Mon, 15 Apr 96 18:56 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Copyright questions from Date: 15 Apr 96 21:54:00 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr16.1540.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Could you tell me from what source you base your >belief that Tiffany never copyrighted his designs? Matthew, It's kind of hard to prove something on the basis of lack of evidence, but that's what this is: there are no copyrights recorded in the Library of Congress records for LCT's designs. Actually, he gets a lot more credit that is his due: his employees (mostly women) designed the stuff. He *did* trademark "Favrile" glass in 1894 or thereabouts and butted heads in court with John La Farge over who of the two "invented" opalescent glass ... but no copyrights. Alastair Duncan couldn't find them; Egon Neustadt couldn't, either; Paul Crist, who wouldn't be doing what he does if copyrights existed, obviously hasn't found any. But the Library of Congress copyright records are online; if you can find any LCT copyrights, you'll have bested the best! __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 15 21:00:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u91vF-0000q9a; Mon, 15 Apr 96 20:59 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep pattern Date: Mon Apr 15 20:59:16 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr15.205353-0700pdt.309296-27949+348@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Hi Jodi, I'll put it in the mail tomorrow. Sheep patterns seem to be far & few between, same as cows & pigs. Actually, maybe some nice artist out there will draw some of these farms animals for us without threatening copyright protection. What do ya think! Karin >I would really like the sheep pattern. Thanks a bunch. If I can ever help >you find a pattern, just let me know. My address is: > >Jodi Hensley >7992 Hayland Road >Embarrass, MN 55732 USA > >Jodi > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 04:08:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u98bC-00016na; Tue, 16 Apr 96 04:07 PDT X-Path: server.northernnet.com!hensley From: Mike & Jodi Hensley To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep pattern Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 06:07:43 -0500 Message-ID: <199604161107.GAA21067@server.northernnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Karin, Thank you so much. It would be nice if someone would draw some farm animals. I looked through at least 25-30 different books and did not find anything except a barn. Copyright protection seems to be a hot topic. You have a fear of using any part of the pattern. Once again, thanks a lot for the sheep pattern. If you ever need anything, just let me know. Jodi:) > >>Hi Jodi, >I'll put it in the mail tomorrow. Sheep patterns seem to be far & few >between, same as cows & pigs. Actually, maybe some nice artist out there >will draw some of these farms animals for us without threatening copyright >protection. What do ya think! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 04:35:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u991k-0000oma; Tue, 16 Apr 96 04:34 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Sheep pattern Date: 16 Apr 96 07:32:19 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr16.113219.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >anything except a barn. Copyright protection seems to be a hot topic. >You have a fear of using any part of the pattern. You've just gotta smile at the irony of what could be the result: the publishers of pattern books get so bothered about copyright protection that you and everyone else is afraid to *use the patterns, so nobody *buys the pattern books, because they can't use them without being afraid they'll upset the pattern book publishers, who then go out of business, because nobody's buying their books! Arrragh! Again: it's perfectly all right to use the patterns as published (or parts of them in your own designs) and to sell the resulting work. If you've incorporated part of a published pattern -- as long as it's not the *majority of the published pattern -- into your own design, your design is copyrighted to you. Be sure to write "Copyright (C) 1996 Jodi Hensley" on the edge of your pattern; etch or paint that phrase into into the glass somewhere, too (it can be small enough to not be intrusive, but it must be readable to have effect). If you want to *register the copyright, ask the Library of Congress for the forms, send 'em in with the $20 and the requisite photos of the work and/or pattern, then you can sue the socks off anyone who infringes on your copyright. (Real Americans Sue Everybody They Can.) Relax. Have fun. Enjoy! __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 05:48:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9AAk-0000qNa; Tue, 16 Apr 96 05:47 PDT X-Path: server.northernnet.com!hensley From: Mike & Jodi Hensley To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep pattern Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 07:48:52 -0500 Message-ID: <199604161248.HAA22018@server.northernnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert, Thanks for the tips. If my understanding is correct, I sue everyone, eh? Just kidding. Jodi Be sure to write "Copyright (C) 1996 Jodi Hensley" on >the edge of your pattern; etch or paint that phrase into into the glass >somewhere, too (it can be small enough to not be intrusive, but it must be >readable to have effect). If you want to *register the copyright, ask the >Library of Congress for the forms, send 'em in with the $20 and the requisite >photos of the work and/or pattern, then you can sue the socks off anyone who >infringes on your copyright. (Real Americans Sue Everybody They Can.) > >Relax. Have fun. Enjoy! > > __________________________________________ > Albert Lewis Executive Director > International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. > __________________________________________ > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 11:30:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9FV2-0000eha; Tue, 16 Apr 96 11:29 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!glaslady From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stepping stone forms Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 14:28:47 -0400 Message-ID: <199604161828.OAA10954@mailserver1.tiac.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> >> Has anyone bought an economy stepping stone form recently? Can you tell me >> what you paid for it? I just got in a shipment, and would like to know the >> going rate. Thanks. >> Joyce Moran >> > > $22.95 is what our store sells them for. > >lisa >hate to burst your bubble, but just picked up 4 cicluar ones for $19 through one of Home Improvements catalog. is not as sturdy as the ones designed specifically for stained glass, but will do and has advantage of having 2 companions ets - one with bas relief flowers & another with leaves. will make nice combo with glass stones Judy in Northern MA Glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 11:31:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9FWV-0000Yfa; Tue, 16 Apr 96 11:30 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!glaslady From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re: copyrights and tiffany Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 14:31:42 -0400 Message-ID: <199604161831.OAA11203@mailserver1.tiac.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk to add a bit more fuel to the fire, I think the Tiffany family would probably be oging after the dale tiffant company tooth and nail if designs. name copyright were a iffue. As I understand it, altho I may be wrong , Dale Tiffany is not Dale Tiffany's real nameand If I were the tiffany estate, I'd be really supset oabout the stores selling real tiffany (dale) lamps that are made offshore, passing them off to unsuspecting buyers as 'the real thing' Judy in Northern MA Glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 12:20:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9GHw-0000oja; Tue, 16 Apr 96 12:19 PDT X-Path: avery.med.virginia.edu!lbl From: Laurie Hall To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stepping stone forms Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 15:15:09 -0400 Message-ID: <199604161915.PAA167329@avery.med.Virginia.EDU> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 02:28 PM 4/16/96 -0400, you wrote: >>lisa >>hate to burst your bubble, but just picked up 4 cicluar ones for $19 >through one of Home Improvements catalog. is not as sturdy as the ones >designed specifically for stained glass, but will do and has advantage of >having 2 companions ets - one with bas relief flowers & another with leaves. >will make nice combo with glass stones > >Judy in Northern MA Judy, could you please give me the toll free number to that catalog? I would like to order these forms! Laurie Laurie Hall E-mail: lbl@virginia.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 14:34:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9IMz-0000ONa; Tue, 16 Apr 96 14:33 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: re: copyrights and tiffa Date: 16 Apr 96 17:28:52 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr16.212852.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Tiffany is not Dale Tiffany's real nameand If I were the tiffany estate, >I'd be really supset oabout the stores selling real tiffany (dale) lamps >that are made offshore, passing them off to unsuspecting buyers as 'the >real thing' We'd probably have to define "real thing," wouldn't we? There are very few _real_ Tiffany lamps around (and the prices they bring are an indication of that). The word itself, "Tiffany," has been debased and misused, applied to everything that's even close. We've all seen *plastic swag lamps at K-Mart being sold as "Tiffany Lamps," much as we ask someone to hand us a "Kleenex" and get a store brand tissue instead. But Dale Tiffany has as much right to make lamps offshore (and on) as you or I do ... we just choose not to. And I suspect that someone's last name is "Dale" and that he/she/it sells "Tiffany," in the broadest sense of the term. As for offshore manufacture of good for sale within the U.S., we'd have to change the entire economy, stop buying Calvin Klein and DKNY, stop buying "American" cars stuffed with offshore parts, etc., etc., before we start condemning a tiny business selling decorative lamps! But that's, as they say, a whole 'nuther subject. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 15:19:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9J4i-0000qfa; Tue, 16 Apr 96 15:18 PDT X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!rosochac From: "Lisa Anne Rosochacki" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stepping stone forms Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 18:18:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199604162218.SAA66425@pilot08.cl.msu.edu> References: <<199604161828.OAA10954@mailserver1.tiac.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >> > > > > $22.95 is what our store sells them for. > > > >hate to burst your bubble, but just picked up 4 cicluar ones for $19 > through one of Home Improvements catalog. is not as sturdy as the ones > designed specifically for stained glass, but will do and has advantage of > having 2 companions ets - one with bas relief flowers & another with leaves. > will make nice combo with glass stones > > Judy in Northern MA > Glaslady@tiac.net > No bubble was burst for me > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 18:36:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9MA9-0000g4a; Tue, 16 Apr 96 18:36 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stepping stone forms Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:34:26 +0600 Message-ID: <9604161334.AA12803@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk What is an economy stepping stone form anyway????? At 02:28 PM 16/4/96 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>> Has anyone bought an economy stepping stone form recently? Can you tell me >>> what you paid for it? I just got in a shipment, and would like to know the >>> going rate. Thanks. >>> Joyce Moran >>> >> >> $22.95 is what our store sells them for. >> >>lisa >>hate to burst your bubble, but just picked up 4 cicluar ones for $19 >through one of Home Improvements catalog. is not as sturdy as the ones >designed specifically for stained glass, but will do and has advantage of >having 2 companions ets - one with bas relief flowers & another with leaves. >will make nice combo with glass stones > >Judy in Northern MA >Glaslady@tiac.net > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ****************************************** Richard and Meg Laval Monteverde, Costa Rica ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 18:40:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9MDC-0000QTa; Tue, 16 Apr 96 18:39 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Writing on Glass Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:37:37 +0600 Message-ID: <9604161337.AA13221@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I would like to konw more too. Are Deka paints transparent? Light fast? are there other paints on the market which are? I am using Talens paints for glass which are transparent, and fairly light fast. However they do have limited colors. What are the Kodak glass stains? do they have to be fired? Meg At 09:39 AM 15/4/96 PDT, you wrote: >Your message dated: Fri, 12 Apr 96 09:51:59 PDT >> > >So I'm going to do a new baby project, and I would like to "write" the >> > >baby's name on the glass with something that won't come off or chip >> > >off when it's cleaned in the future.I would recommend the brand DEKA ename >l paint. It can be low fired in >> your oven at home. It is VERY durable. >> -- >> * mickey mackenzie for Pristine Glass Co. >> * pristine@gr.cns.net * http://www.cns.net/pristine >> also >> * mickey@grfn.org * http://www.grfn.org/~mickey >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >-- > >Well, my local store only had the DEKA brand paints (thanks to the rest >of you all for the other suggestions). The actual instructions on the >bottle don't mention "baking" the glass at all. It just says to let >it dry for 2 hours. I assume that firing it will make it more durable, but >I need some directions. > >Thanks again, >Becky > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ****************************************** Richard and Meg Laval Monteverde, Costa Rica ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 19:38:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9N7I-0000mva; Tue, 16 Apr 96 19:37 PDT X-Path: computek.net!adamsfam From: adamsfam@computek.net (Todd Adams) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep Patterns Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:50:25 -0500 Message-ID: <199604170150.UAA20627@ns1.computek.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I am new to the group and, up to this point, I have just been listening. >However, I am looking for a sheep farm pattern. I have asked the local >store and they informed me that they had never seen a sheep pattern. I >asked mail order and same response. I am really new to stain glass and I do >not feel comfortable drawing my own pattern yet. Also, I have looked for >coloring books, but all I find are the mickey mouse, lion king, etc. Not >the type of coloring books that were around when I was a kid. I raise sheep >for a wool and yarn business and I thought it would be nice to have >something that tied my new found art and my business together. Any help >would be appreciated. > >Jodi (hensley@northernnet.com) > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >Hello!! I too have been a casual observer on this mailing list. I am but a babe in the art of stained glass and have mainly only done pieces for friends and family. I have done a small sheep panel for one of those friends. I found the pattern in the book "Country Roads" by Donna Eller. Your local stained glass supplier should carry it. If not then Glass Crafters or Hudson Glass carry it. Good Luck, Jeannette ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 20:12:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9Nd2-0000yia; Tue, 16 Apr 96 20:10 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lamp and candelabra parts Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:06:27 -0700 Message-ID: <199604170306.UAA05398@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Karl, > I have two glass supply catalogs that sell lighting hardware: >Whittemore-Durgin Glass Co. 1-800-262-1790 or Fax 1-800-786-3457 (just reading >their unique catalog is an enjoyable experience in itself) > check www.penrose.com/glass/ this is Whittemore-Durgin Glass Co. web site. ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 16 21:55:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9PFu-00004Ca; Tue, 16 Apr 96 21:54 PDT X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: Elaine & Howard Rubin To: glaslady Subject: re: copyrights and tiffany Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 12:48:36 -0500 Message-ID: <199604161951.MAA28939@desiree.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- This is Howard...I have been following the "Tiffany" copyright discussion, and I too, feel the imported crap Dale Tiffany sells should have a disclaimer. HOWEVER if a buyer thinks it is the "real" Tiffany, that buyer deserves what is bought and the price paid. My reproductions are signed by me, touted to be accurate representations of the originals, with my interpretion of color and quality. >From a technical standpoint, MINE are far superior to the craftsmanship of the originals. If you have not handled or own an original....DO NOT waste time (mine) refuting my craftsmanship as you probably do not have one of mine, either. You get what you are willing to pay for, and the buyer beware adage CERTAINLY applies to buying reproduction pieces. As an aside, Dale Tiffany, Polk Street Tiffany, Paul Shalin Tiffany are just a few of the names using Tiffany for their purposes. Enjoy....H -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Tuesday, 16-Apr-96 02:31 PM From: glaslady \ Internet: (glaslady@tiac.net) To: Glass list \ Internet: (glass@bungi.com) Subject: re: copyrights and tiffany to add a bit more fuel to the fire, I think the Tiffany family would probably be oging after the dale tiffant company tooth and nail if designs. name copyright were a iffue. As I understand it, altho I may be wrong , Dale Tiffany is not Dale Tiffany's real nameand If I were the tiffany estate, I'd be really supset oabout the stores selling real tiffany (dale) lamps that are made offshore, passing them off to unsuspecting buyers as 'the real thing' Judy in Northern MA Glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- -- UNDER CONSTRUCTION... http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/hrubin.htm http://www.teleport.com/~weaver51 Elaine and Howard, mastering technology one byte at a time! E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 03:23:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9UDS-00012ia; Wed, 17 Apr 96 03:12 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: re: copyrights and tiffa Date: 17 Apr 96 06:06:14 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr17.10614.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >and I too, feel the imported crap Dale Tiffany sells should have a >disclaimer. HOWEVER if a buyer thinks it is the "real" Tiffany, that buyer >deserves what is bought and the price paid. One man's trash is another man's treasure, so it is said, and since the definition of "crap" is a subjective one, I'll bet that, regardless of that subjectivity, many people who've bought Dale Tiffany lamps are as pleased with them as they would be with the real thing. Of course, it's too bad that their appreciation of what makes a *good lampshade, one with well-chosen colors and well-crafted assembly on a high-quality base, is not also well-informed, but that's part of our job, isn't it, to educate them? >My reproductions are signed by me, touted to be accurate representations >of the originals, with my interpretion of color and quality. I'm sure your reproductions (of Tiffany lampshades, I assume) are fine examples of the genre, and that your color selection and the level of your craft are superior to the less-expensive, imported, cranked-out models. But those inferior versions make yours look good by comparison, don't they? Or have you run into a lot of "Oh, I can get that cheaper at K-Mart!" kind of comments? That would be maddening, of course, but that's the point at which you should point out the quality of your craftsmanship, the superiority of the glass you use, the excellence of the color selection ... in short, the fact that H. Rubin Stained Glass produces investment quality items ... much like the Tiffany lampshades on which the designs are based. >>From a technical standpoint, MINE are far superior to the craftsmanship >of the originals. I haven't seen your shades, but am willing to accept your suggestion that the quality of your craftsmanship is very high. (Actually, I'm not sure you said the above, since you had a > in front of "From a technical ...", but I'll comment anyway.) Your motivations are praiseworthy: that you want to create work with high standards is a stance I'll support wholeheartedly any day of the week. But that doesn't necessarily make Dale Tiffany (or any of the other 64 people in our 32,068-name database who also use the word "Tiffany" in the name of their shop or studio) a bad person. Dale Tiffany, among others, is appealing to the low- to mid-range of the market; you (I assume) are appealing to the mid- to high-range end. In my book, *both of you are right, *both of you are okay. Not everyone can afford your work (much less the cost of an *actual, for-real Louis Comfort Tiffany Studios lamp. >You get what you are willing to pay for, and the buyer beware adage >CERTAINLY applies to buying reproduction pieces. Just out of curiosity, what is the range of prices on your lamps? To be honest, I don't know what Dale Tiffany charges on average, either ... I'm guessing it's very low ... less than $100? I do know that many of Paul Crist's reproductions of Tiffany lamps approach or exceed $25,000. Are yours in that range, too? (I'd love to see slides of your work, by the way; I'd pass them along to the editor of Common Ground: Glass, the Guild's newsletter.) >As an aside, Dale Tiffany, Polk Street Tiffany, Paul Shalin Tiffany are >just a few of the names using Tiffany for their purposes. Quite right. See my comment above about 64 of the 32,068 names in the Guild's database. A pretty small percentage (.002 is the number my trusty computer gave me). __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 03:23:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9UDS-00012ga; Wed, 17 Apr 96 03:12 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: membership information Date: 17 Apr 96 06:05:58 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr17.10558.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Please send membership information It's on the way, Steve. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 03:35:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9UPU-0000ZTa; Wed, 17 Apr 96 03:24 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!glaslady From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: more on tiffany Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 06:23:29 -0400 Message-ID: <199604171023.GAA10078@mailserver1.tiac.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk to concur with Howard, I've had the privilege several times of walking into a huge room, dark except for the light of about 100 tiffanies (the real thing) - in NYC at the NY Historical society. I understand that the museum fell on hard times and closed - does anyone in NYC know if that's the case. I'm planning a trip to NY and wanted to do a bit of research on color & texture. the Met has a 'wall' - the lovely birches, which is set up so that you can walk behind it and view the wonderful plating technique that gives the birches so much textural feel. compare any of these to what's frequently passed off as tiffany and it's like comparing a rollsroyce to a Yugo. The interesting thing is that several craftsmen and studios are turning out tiffany quality (and sometimes better reinforced) work that anyone qould be proud ot own. however, I go crazy when someone says to me - look how great that looks at a crafts fair or 'antique' shop. My advise is to look at the underside. one of my favorites was the nicely soldered on the outside (with clear foiling booboos), nicely patinaed on the outside....bare foil with bleedthrough globs on the inside, no patina, and two solder points on the vasecap..with the inscription, "Proudly made by the Lois Tiffany Studio=1856" that I saw at an 'antique' show. must have been mdae by Louis' Aunt Lois..the pricetag on this gem, which used some of that thin glass that was around a couple of years ago (whose name fails me - probably the result of lead fumes), was $4700! brings new meaning to caveat emptor - and a fool & his money are soon parted. right now, I'm working of a tiffany repro for a customere. as is usually the case on a custom job for me on lamps, I showed her the classic tiffany glass chips that would be used in this lamp from several manufacturers...she wanted some different shades/textures, so she's getting a tiffany style lamp, but in colors that work with her house. is it now a tiffany repro? well, a purist would say no...it's in the tiffany style. but I'll have a happy customer - and my customer will have a quality product, signed by me, using my name Judy in Northern MA glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 03:36:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9URK-0000eWa; Wed, 17 Apr 96 03:26 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stepping stone forms Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 06:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199604171016.GAA05254@brutus.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 07:34 PM 4/16/96 +0600, you wrote: > >What is an economy stepping stone form anyway????? It is basically the same as the Tiffacny Garden Stepping Stone, but is slightly more shallow and has sharper corners. And it retails for about $10.00 less than the original from the book. Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 03:36:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9UQp-0000ema; Wed, 17 Apr 96 03:25 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!glaslady From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re_stepping stones Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 06:25:20 -0400 Message-ID: <199604171025.GAA16353@mailserver2.tiac.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk someone asked for improvements phone # to get catalog with stone forms- 800-642-2112 Judy in Northern MA glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 04:46:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9VXF-0000w0a; Wed, 17 Apr 96 04:36 PDT X-Path: server.northernnet.com!hensley From: Mike & Jodi Hensley To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep Patterns Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 06:35:04 -0500 Message-ID: <199604171135.GAA18000@server.northernnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jeannette, Thanks. I looked through all the books at the local store to no avail. I have Glass Crafters catalog. I will check there. However, could you provide me with a number for Hudson Glass. I do not have their catalog. Thanks, Jodi >>Hello!! I too have been a casual observer on this mailing list. I am but a >babe in the art of stained glass and have mainly only done pieces for >friends and family. I have done a small sheep panel for one of those >friends. I found the pattern in the book "Country Roads" by Donna Eller. >Your local stained glass supplier should carry it. If not then Glass >Crafters or Hudson Glass carry it. >Good Luck, >Jeannette > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 07:20:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9Xwm-00015La; Wed, 17 Apr 96 07:11 PDT X-Path: atlas.na.informix.com!marissat From: Marissa Toghyani To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re: copyrights and tiffany Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 09:06:28 -0700 Message-ID: <199604171410.JAA23546@informixs-bh.na.informix.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I attended a seminar in Baltimore recently and while walking through a mall I noticed many stained glass lamps with price tags ranging from $100 to $1500. I was told that the $1500 lamps were actually made by Dale Tiffany, a grandson to Louis Tiffany and that Dale learned the craft from his grandfather personally. I had no reason to disbelieve this until reading the email of the past few days. Does anyone know the whole story? Who, exactly is Dale Tiffany, and does he craft any lamp shades himself? Or, is he a businessman cashing in on an accident of birth? I'm just curious. Incidentally, the cheaper lamp shades were of obviously inferior craftsmanship. The interiors were'nt even soldered, much less patinad (is patinad a word?), and lopsided copper foil was showing through everywhere. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 10:03:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9aS8-0001Cpa; Wed, 17 Apr 96 09:51 PDT X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: Elaine & Howard Rubin To: Marissa Toghyani Subject: re: copyrights and tiffany Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 09:44:32 -0500 Message-ID: <199604171647.JAA19572@desiree.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- This is Howard....To the best of my limited recollection, this is DALE TIFFANY company of Moonachie, N.J. I do believe the founder and owner is of Asian (Korean) descent. THe work is produced in countries where under $2.00 per week is considered a good wage. It is hard for our labor intensive industries to compete with the HOURLY wage...However when craftsmenship and color count, and the purchaser can afford the best and is knowledgeable of what is out there, we have a chance to sell a piece. NEVER sacrifice quality for time as you can not work cheaply enough to be competitive. Some of our major lamp people in this country have sent their people over to the Asian market to "help" them produce a better product, and in all probility will and have been complaining of the final product cutting into their market. Anyone see any irony in that? I could go on for a bit more...but will not, and I believe I have had enough on this subject for awhile. Enjoy....H -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Wednesday, 17-Apr-96 09:06 AM From: Marissa Toghyani \ Internet: (marissat@atlas.na.informix. com) To: Glass list \ Internet: (glass@bungi.com) Subject: re: copyrights and tiffany I attended a seminar in Baltimore recently and while walking through a mall I noticed many stained glass lamps with price tags ranging from $100 to $1500. I was told that the $1500 lamps were actually made by Dale Tiffany, a grandson to Louis Tiffany and that Dale learned the craft from his grandfather personally. I had no reason to disbelieve this until reading the email of the past few days. Does anyone know the whole story? Who, exactly is Dale Tiffany, and does he craft any lamp shades himself? Or, is he a businessman cashing in on an accident of birth? I'm just curious. Incidentally, the cheaper lamp shades were of obviously inferior craftsmanship. The interiors were'nt even soldered, much less patinad (is patinad a word?), and lopsided copper foil was showing through everywhere. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- -- UNDER CONSTRUCTION... http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/hrubin.htm http://www.teleport.com/~weaver51 Elaine and Howard, mastering technology one byte at a time! E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 16:30:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9gen-0001Dqa; Wed, 17 Apr 96 16:29 PDT X-Path: utah-inter.net!stainedglass From: stainedglass@utah-inter.net (Creative Glass - Ben Benedict) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Kilns Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 17:32:13 -0600 Message-ID: <1996Apr17.113213.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 11:25 AM 4/11/96 -0700, you wrote: >Does anyone have any experience with glass kilns for use in a microwave >oven. Can they be built? Any plans? Do they do the job? > >Mary Waldeck-- > >---- > Mary Years ago, before the "Quick-Fire" 4 & 6 there was a very small micro wave kiln that worked fairly well and pretty fast. The circlular kiln was coated on the inside with some type of product that absorbed the energy from the microwaves generating the needed heat. One problem, the by-products of the fusing or slumping would stay in the microwave oven - - - not so good if you want to use it to warm your meal next day! Ben B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 16:42:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9gq1-0000nga; Wed, 17 Apr 96 16:40 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Sheep Patterns Date: 17 Apr 96 19:39:36 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr17.233936.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >a number for Hudson Glass. I do not have their catalog. Jodi, Hudson's info from the 1996 Sources Guide, just published by the Guild: Hudson Glass Co., Inc., 219 N. Division Street, Peekskill NY 10566-2700. Phone: (914) 737-2124. (800) 431-2964. (800) HG-HAS- IT [(800) 444-2748)]. Fax: (914) 737-4447 or (800) 999 FAX-IT [(800) 999-3294]. Offering quality supplies and service to the stained glass industry. Distributor, full line wholesale/retail. Very complete line of books, patterns, glass, bevels, jewels, crystals, dichroic, easel backs, their own imported tools, vase caps, adhesives, business cards, fusing supplies, grinders and accessories, kaleidoscopes and accessories, lamp supplies, paints, saws, Worden System, Morton System, filigrees, fluxes, foil, chemicals, clock parts and box parts are just a few things this distributor offers. They maintain an extensive inventory that enables them to keep their prices competitive. Worldwide shipments. Catalog $3. ------------------------------------------------------ Note: Any companies identified with [SuppSupp] before their names are Supporting Suppliers to the Guild, offering members discounts on tools, equipment and supplies of 5% to 50%. See page 19 of the 1996 Sources Guide or download IGGASUPP.TXT from Library 5 [Glass] of the Handcrafts Forum on CompuServe for details. Prepared by Albert Lewis for the International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Copyright (c) 1996 International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. All rights reserved. May be freely copied for personal use and passed along to others for their personal use, but not republished in any form without express written permission from the International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 17:30:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9hYq-00019Wa; Wed, 17 Apr 96 17:27 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: re: copyrights and tiffa Date: 17 Apr 96 20:24:50 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr18.02450.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I was told that the $1500 lamps were actually made by Dale Tiffany, >a grandson to Louis Tiffany and that Dale learned the craft from his >grandfather personally. Louis Comfort Tiffany had one son, Charles, who was believed to be infertile, but who in any case had no children. In order for the present owner of Dale Tiffany to be LCT's grandson and also bear the name of Tiffany, he would have to be a direct descendant ... but there are none. Tiffany never made any money in the glass business anyway, wasn't much of a businessman by any stretch of the imagination ... the fortune inherited from his father kept him more than just afloat ... but he was perhaps one of the best self-promoters ever. He'd be delighted at the amount of press he gets even now, nearly 100 years after his heyday! The current owner of Dale Tiffany ... oh, I'm not sure he's the owner, so let's say he's our *contact at Dale Tiffany ... is Mr. Ye Chung. I've *met the owner (but am not making a connection in my mind between that meeting and the name) and he is/was Oriental in extraction. A nice fellow, as I remember, just as I am a nice fellow of European extraction. We're both Americans now. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 17:30:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9hYq-0000UPa; Wed, 17 Apr 96 17:27 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: re: copyrights and tiffa Date: 17 Apr 96 20:24:55 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr18.02455.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >NEVER sacrifice quality for time as you can not work >cheaply enough to be competitive. Well said, Howard! Reminds me of a story I've been known to tell on myself (just a minute, while I get into Walter Brennan mode). This is more about the way one sells oneself short by selling work too cheaply than anything else: Time was I ran a hot shop in East Oakland, California, along with raising 200 laying hens and a big garden. (Ah, the 60s ... those were the days!) The Owens-Illinois glass factory around the corner let me take all the rejected Gerber's baby bottles I wanted and soda ash, too, so I'd melt them down and blow square-bottomed, round-mouthed, winged, loop-handled iridescent mugs. My cost? Practically nothing. So at $5 apiece, I figured I'd really make the shop profitable. But they wouldn't *sell because people'd make the connection with *other $5 things they could buy ... like at the "dime store." So one day I started pricing them at $25 ... and they *flew off the shelf! Sold all my work through the museum shops after that. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 17:31:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9hYq-0000uya; Wed, 17 Apr 96 17:27 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: more on tiffany Date: 17 Apr 96 20:24:45 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr18.02445.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >a huge room, dark except for the light of about 100 tiffanies (the real >thing) - in NYC at the NY Historical society. I understand that the museum >fell on hard times and closed - does anyone in NYC know if that's the >case. I'm planning a trip to NY and wanted to do a bit of research on >color & texture. It would be a good idea to call first ... they're _sort of_ open (and kinda *not), undergoing renovations, etc. Call (212) 873-3400. >"Proudly made by the Lois Tiffany Studio=1856" "Aunt Lois" ... ROFL -- that's great! The number can't be a year date, though. Must be a part number they've imitated. The earliest Tiffany lamps date from the 1890s. >it's in the tiffany style. but I'll have a happy customer - and my >customer will have a quality product, signed by me, using my name That's exactly what Louis was doing, Judy. Of course, his clients were the super-rich and able to afford a bit more than most people. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 17:57:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9i0o-0001AVa; Wed, 17 Apr 96 17:55 PDT X-Path: mbay.net!drno From: "Joseph D. Noble" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: guild Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 17:55:37 -0800 Message-ID: <199604180155.RAA11520@otter.mbay.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Quite right. See my comment above about 64 of the 32,068 names in the >Guild's database. A pretty small percentage (.002 is the number my trusty >computer gave me). > > __________________________________________ > Albert Lewis Executive Director > International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. > __________________________________________ > Al, could you give me some more info on this guild? I am relatively new to stained glass and am curious about your guild. Thanks David DR NO Monterey, CA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 18:37:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9idF-0001C1a; Wed, 17 Apr 96 18:35 PDT X-Path: computek.net!adamsfam From: adamsfam@computek.net (Todd Adams) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep Patterns Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 18:45:24 -0500 Message-ID: <199604172345.SAA01633@ns1.computek.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Jeannette, > >Thanks. I looked through all the books at the local store to no avail. I >have Glass Crafters catalog. I will check there. However, could you >provide me with a number for Hudson Glass. I do not have their catalog. > >Thanks, > >Jodi > Jodi, Sure, the number for Hudson Glass is 800-431-2964. Jeannette >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 19:10:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9j9t-00018Aa; Wed, 17 Apr 96 19:09 PDT X-Path: aol.com!AMWalts From: AMWalts@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: membership information Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:09:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr17.1894.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Help!! I had no idea that the subscription would mean my mailbox would be completely unmanageable... way too much mail!! Thank you very much for signing me up, but I simply don't have the time to read *all* of it! Pleas remove my name from your mailer. Thank you very much. Amy Matson Walts ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 20:25:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9kIh-00018La; Wed, 17 Apr 96 20:22 PDT X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: Elaine & Howard Rubin To: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@compuserve.com> Subject: My look at "Tiffany" Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 17:52:46 -0500 Message-ID: <199604180055.RAA20615@desiree.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Dear Albert, You have piqued me enough to address a few of your comments and deductions. Not in any particular order..... As to the disclaimer, I sold some shades to a place in Beverly Hills, CA and on the next set of negotiations the purchaser explained to me that by my signing my shades, there was no way he could say that there was a possibility of them being a "Tiffany". He insisted that they NOT be signed, I refused, but did compromise by signing deeply in the ring, and under the filigree. He shoe polished over my patina to "age" it and further allow for the possibility of an original. Buyer beware certainly applies in his shop. My shades are fine examples without having to compare them to less-expensive , imported mass produced imports. Comparing them to quality pieces also does not diminish their quality. They have juried at the highest professional level and were as good as any other entries. The, "Oh, I can get them cheaper", has never been a factor in my selling, and I usually suggest that "perhaps you are not meant to own of mine". If the potential purchaser can not tell the difference from Kmart to mine, then I will not spend the time and effort to explain the difference in price as well as quality. In my opinion, the final judge of the product, is the consumer who is willing to buy it. In many instances my outlets have relayed to me the customers pleasure at finding a superior product and gladly paying to own it . I have letters thanking me for producing and making such a product available. As to the inference that Dale Tiffany is a bad person, I am fairly sure that I did not disparage Dale in any post, and even if I did, how can a non- existent person be disparaged. Try calling and asking for "Dale" himself in person. To assuage partially your curiosity, my shades with a good quality bronze base in the "Tiffany" tradition could light up your life from a retail price of $2,900 and go to $14,000. The average retail price shade that I speculate on and consign to qualified outlets is in the $3,300 area. Your pointing out 64 appearances of Tiffany out of 32,068 names in your data base does not impress me, as Tiffany had little or nothing to do with the references to .002 percent of the usage. If you still are willing to converse with me, I would be interested in more information on the International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. (if the guild does not include "hot glass" artists as well, then perhaps is should be craftsmen rather than artists). Sincerely, Howard E-Mail Address weaver51@teleport.com -- UNDER CONSTRUCTION... http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/hrubin.htm http://www.teleport.com/~weaver51 Elaine and Howard, mastering technology one byte at a time! E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 22:58:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9mhT-00013na; Wed, 17 Apr 96 22:56 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Writing on Glass Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 01:55:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr17.215559.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >brand DEKA enamel paint. It can be low fired in Do you use a paint brush to apply this or spray gun? What kind of brush? Can you describe the technique, please. Thanks. Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 17 23:13:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9mx6-0000uda; Wed, 17 Apr 96 23:12 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stepping stone forms Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 02:12:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr17.221215.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-04-17 07:02:32 EDT, you write: >economy stepping stone form Are these forms also being marketed with the Tiffany Garden woman's company name (forgot what it is)? I have unfortunately discovered that the two-of-each-size forms I have are just slightly different enough as to create problems. That is, the glass cut from a pattern will fit in one of the molds, but not the other (of the same size) without serious grinding. And the completed stones don't line up well when used together. I'm contemplating calling the company as I've already used the molds and obviously can't return them. What do you think? Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 04:15:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9rcs-00011ha; Thu, 18 Apr 96 04:11 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: guild Date: 18 Apr 96 07:09:12 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr18.11912.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Al, could you give me some more info on this guild? I am relatively new >to stained glass and am curious about your guild. David, Sure, no problem. It's not *my Guild, of course ... I'm just the "chief clerk," you might say. The Board of Directors calls me Executive Director, but my job's to keep track of things, deal with the printer of the newsletter (if 48-72 pages is still a 'newsletter') and so on. See below about sending us your street address privately so we can send off a set of printed information about the Guild and its programs. And thanks for asking! International Guild of Glass Artists ==================================== an international association of artists, artisans and craftspeople who work with glass as a crafts and art medium. Many of those who participate here are members of the Guild and they share this welcome being extended to you! There is an almost instinctive solidarity among those of us who work with glass. As we individually pursue our artistic expressions in this unique and fascinating medium, we share a great kinship with those who have preceded us in the magnificent legacy that is glass art work. However, glass remains a solitary pursuit for many of us. As autonomous as we are in the greater glass community, as individuals we are seldom able to give voice to our enthusiasm about glass, and to share our experiences with it. As passionate as we are about our work, we seldom find much emotional support for our devotion to this compelling medium. The IGGA has accomplished much in the past three years to bring glass artists and enthusiasts together from many diverse backgrounds for the purpose of fabricating new bridges to allow glass artists to discover our "common ground." We have come together to give voice to our mutual concerns, to work together to support each other in our visions, and to share ourselves with fellow artists and enthusiasts. We have a great deal to be excited about and look forward to furthering our existing programs, as well as developing new ones. Your input, energy, and enthusiasm will help us to realize those goals, and strengthen the greater glass community. We hope to hear from you soon and to welcome you as a member of the International Guild of Glass Artists! Gerry Phibbs Chairman Send us your address -- that's your post office mailing address -- and we'll send you information about membership at the following levels: Student/Hobbyist $ 25/year -- newsletter Individual Artist 45/year -- newsletter, referrals service and discounts on supplies! Partner Artists 55/year -- all of the above for husband/wife (etc.): two full memberships, but only one copy of the newsletter Studio/Corporate 150/year -- five full memberships, with five newsletters to the same address! We'll also send you information about setting up local chapters of the International Guild, Local ChapterGrants to help get those local chapters running, and more information about the Guild's many other programs and services. _____________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Tonetta Lake Road *** Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _____________________________________________ An IRS 501(c)(6) Not-for-Profit Organization ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 04:15:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9rcr-0000fWa; Thu, 18 Apr 96 04:11 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: glass guild Date: 18 Apr 96 07:09:16 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr18.11916.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Carol, I hope to see some of Howard's work at some point ... yours, too, for that matter. I've been involved with a number of glass magazines and books over the years; my driving motivation has been the documentation of as much of the excellent work being done as possible, something that's difficult, since there's so *much of it. I didn't mean to challenge Howard -- or anyone else. I'm just trying to contribute what I can to the dialogue, not start any kind of verbal fisticuffs or oneupmanship. Thanks for your interest in the Guild ... I just posted a quick note about it generally, 'cause I sensed that a lot of other people might ask. That way I can avoid answering the question again and again, not that I'm lazy ... just efficient. Maybe the SysOps here will pop those few paragraphs into the archive and I can avoid reposting it. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 04:16:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9rcs-0000IVa; Thu, 18 Apr 96 04:11 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: My look at "Tiffany" Date: 18 Apr 96 07:09:26 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr18.11926.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard, Thanks for your comments. I admire your honesty in the face of dealers (well, at least *one) who are less than. The kind of chicanery and trickery some dealers are willing to indulge in is amazing and your story is not the first time I've heard of it, of course. Does he charge the "going rate" for authentic Tiffany lamps? Say, a quarter of a million dollars? If not, the customers should immediately become very suspicious. I wouldn't be surprised if he acts a little dumb, giving them the idea that they know something he doesn't, that he's unaware really that it's an authentic piece and that they're taking advantage of him. Greed is a great motivator in the hearts of those who are sucked in by scam artists. I'm sure your work is of very high quality, since others here have spoken highly of it. I'd be delighted to see a few slides, if you could spare them. My address follows. I think you're quite right to charge for your lamps what your time, talent and expenses are worth. I've seen far too many artists and craftspeople struggle along because they've tried to compete with imports, knockoffs and cheap reproductions. "The laborer is worth his hire," if I'm quoting (the Bible?) correctly ... that's something I believe in strongly, so good for you for sticking to your principles and your guns. The point of my story on myself about the mugs was that people *do tend to equate one's work with K-Mart brands and other knockoffs if one tries to compete with them on price. My work sold much better when it was priced at five times the competition ... a certain signal goes off in the buyer's brain when the object is expensive: "Oh, if it costs that much, it must be *worth it!" Of course, there's an upper limit to that kind of effect and finding it for one's work can take some fiddling around and testing. But when the work is selling for a reasonable price that allows one to earn as much as a plumber, say, one feels better about oneself, too. Self-respect is worth a lot. It wasn't you who implied that Dale Tiffany is a "bad person." Someone else (more than one, actually) seemed to be making the point that anything made outside the U.S. is inherently bad, that Americans can't compete on price with goods made overseas, the bottom line appearing to be that we should somehow institute protectionism for American labor. The point of my response about DKNY clothing, etc., is that as Americans we're part of a global economy, that we wouldn't like it at all if our borders were closed to imported goods, that we've become dependent on cheaply produced goods and that much of what makes our lives worthwhile and rich is already manufactured overseas. Naturally, it's tough to compete with such goods on price if we try to go head-to-head with it. I'm suggesting that artists and craftspeople can succeed by taking what might be called the "Tiffany Approach": the jewelry sold at Tiffany & Co. is beautiful, well-made, and very expensive. The thought never crosses the buyer's mind that he/she can get something like what's in the cases at Tiffany more cheaply at K-Mart. They *know that already; they also know that the goods at Tiffany & Co. are head-and-shoulders above anything else in terms of quality. So the prices asked at Tiffany's, therefore, are fair. Mentioning the 64/32000 ratio was merely in response to your comment about the use of the Tiffany name being somehow misleading and dishonest. I don't think it's either, since "Tiffany" has come to mean "stained glass," just as "Kleenex" has come to mean "tissue." I was simply interested to know how many people working with stained glass used the Tiffany name in their shop or studio names. Not very many, as it turned out, so apparently you're not alone in your feeling that it's misleading. It's at least trite. Tiffany had nothing to do with the references; you're right. He also had very little to do with the work connected with his name ... he was running a business, of which lighting was only part, and he ran it badly and not at a profit. The work wasn't, for the most part, designed by him; as in the medieval cathedrals, the workers remain anonymous. Lastly, your interest in the Guild is welcome. All forms of glass art are encompassed by the work its members do; any and every form of glass art or technique is represented, although stained glass makes up the majority. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 04:59:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9sLl-0000eHa; Thu, 18 Apr 96 04:58 PDT X-Path: avery.med.virginia.edu!lbl From: Laurie Hall To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stepping stone forms Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 07:56:48 -0400 Message-ID: <199604181156.HAA21709@avery.med.Virginia.EDU> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 02:12 AM 4/18/96 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 96-04-17 07:02:32 EDT, you write: >I have unfortunately discovered that the two-of-each-size forms I have are >just slightly different enough as to create problems. That is, the glass cut >from a pattern will fit in one of the molds, but not the other (of the same >size) without serious grinding. And the completed stones don't line up well >when used together. I'm contemplating calling the company as I've already >used the molds and obviously can't return them. What do you think? Barbara Barbara, you bet you should contact the company. You've put too much work into cutting the glass and preparing the stones to have the quality turn out less than touted. Let us know what you hear back! Laurie Laurie Hall E-mail: lbl@virginia.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 06:16:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9tX1-0000Rqa; Thu, 18 Apr 96 06:13 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stepping stone forms Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 09:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199604181313.JAA06711@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Barbara! >>economy stepping stone form > >Are these forms also being marketed with the Tiffany Garden woman's company >name (forgot what it is)? > >I have unfortunately discovered that the two-of-each-size forms I have are >just slightly different enough as to create problems. That is, the glass cut >from a pattern will fit in one of the molds, but not the other (of the same >size) without serious grinding. And the completed stones don't line up well >when used together. I'm contemplating calling the company as I've already >used the molds and obviously can't return them. What do you think? Barbara I would definitely contact the store you purchased them from so that they can notify their distributor or the manufacturer about this problem, so that it can be solved. IMHO Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 08:13:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9vNz-0000w8a; Thu, 18 Apr 96 08:12 PDT X-Path: GAS.UUG.Arizona.EDU!mdonovan From: Meghan E Donovan To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My look at "Tiffany" Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 08:16:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <1996Apr18.11636.0> References: <<1996Apr18.11926.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Well, I have a question....When one says "I charge for what I put into it", does this mean an hourly wage? You see, I made an ordament for a Christmas exchange at my job and everyone "ooh"ed and "ahh"ed over it. A lot of people have come up to me since that time and have said that I should see this stuff, that I would definately have buyers there. My question is how much should I charge for my labor? Should I charge by the size and difficulty of the piece, by the type (I do both mosaic and stained glass) or something else? I have been working in glass for about 3 yrs. now, but I would still consider myself somewhere around a novice because I can't devote too much time to it because I am a full-time student with a part-time job. This means if I'm lucky, I can devote my extra time to it 3 days a week. If I'm not so lucky, it's once or twice a month. Also, equating fine stained glass to Tiffany Jewelery. I don't know how many people have had the opportunity to see Tiffany Jewelery, but those who have notice how specific a lot of the jewelery is. Jewelery sold there usually can't be found anywhere else because it's one of a kind. I think the same could be said for a lot of artists on the web whom a person not familiar with the art of glass would deem as "very pricey" art. Unfortunately, these people never see how unique and creative these pieces are. However, I think that a majority of these people would probably never buy Tiffany Jewelery because it's "Too expensive". But I'd much rather see somebody with my art whose going to cherish it, not buy it and be indifferent about it after a few weeks. Anyways, that's my thought on the whole thing. Meghan (mdonovan@gas.uug.arizona.edu) On 18 Apr 1996, Albert Lewis wrote: > > Howard, > > Thanks for your comments. I admire your honesty in the face of dealers > (well, at least *one) who are less than. The kind of chicanery and trickery > some dealers are willing to indulge in is amazing and your story is not the > first time I've heard of it, of course. > > Does he charge the "going rate" for authentic Tiffany lamps? Say, a quarter > of a million dollars? If not, the customers should immediately become very > suspicious. I wouldn't be surprised if he acts a little dumb, giving them > the idea that they know something he doesn't, that he's unaware really that > it's an authentic piece and that they're taking advantage of him. Greed is a > great motivator in the hearts of those who are sucked in by scam artists. > > I'm sure your work is of very high quality, since others here have spoken > highly of it. I'd be delighted to see a few slides, if you could spare them. > My address follows. > > I think you're quite right to charge for your lamps what your time, talent > and expenses are worth. I've seen far too many artists and craftspeople > struggle along because they've tried to compete with imports, knockoffs and > cheap reproductions. "The laborer is worth his hire," if I'm quoting (the > Bible?) correctly ... that's something I believe in strongly, so good for you > for sticking to your principles and your guns. > > The point of my story on myself about the mugs was that people *do tend to > equate one's work with K-Mart brands and other knockoffs if one tries to > compete with them on price. My work sold much better when it was priced at > five times the competition ... a certain signal goes off in the buyer's brain > when the object is expensive: "Oh, if it costs that much, it must be *worth > it!" Of course, there's an upper limit to that kind of effect and finding it > for one's work can take some fiddling around and testing. But when the work > is selling for a reasonable price that allows one to earn as much as a > plumber, say, one feels better about oneself, too. Self-respect is worth > a lot. > > It wasn't you who implied that Dale Tiffany is a "bad person." Someone else > (more than one, actually) seemed to be making the point that anything made > outside the U.S. is inherently bad, that Americans can't compete on price > with goods made overseas, the bottom line appearing to be that we should > somehow institute protectionism for American labor. The point of my response > about DKNY clothing, etc., is that as Americans we're part of a global > economy, that we wouldn't like it at all if our borders were closed to > imported goods, that we've become dependent on cheaply produced goods and > that much of what makes our lives worthwhile and rich is already manufactured > overseas. Naturally, it's tough to compete with such goods on price if we > try to go head-to-head with it. > > I'm suggesting that artists and craftspeople can succeed by taking what might > be called the "Tiffany Approach": the jewelry sold at Tiffany & Co. is > beautiful, well-made, and very expensive. The thought never crosses the > buyer's mind that he/she can get something like what's in the cases at > Tiffany more cheaply at K-Mart. They *know that already; they also know that > the goods at Tiffany & Co. are head-and-shoulders above anything else in > terms of quality. So the prices asked at Tiffany's, therefore, are fair. > > Mentioning the 64/32000 ratio was merely in response to your comment about > the use of the Tiffany name being somehow misleading and dishonest. I don't > think it's either, since "Tiffany" has come to mean "stained glass," just as > "Kleenex" has come to mean "tissue." I was simply interested to know how > many people working with stained glass used the Tiffany name in their shop or > studio names. Not very many, as it turned out, so apparently you're not > alone in your feeling that it's misleading. It's at least trite. > > Tiffany had nothing to do with the references; you're right. He also had > very little to do with the work connected with his name ... he was running a > business, of which lighting was only part, and he ran it badly and not at a > profit. The work wasn't, for the most part, designed by him; as in the > medieval cathedrals, the workers remain anonymous. > > Lastly, your interest in the Guild is welcome. All forms of glass art are > encompassed by the work its members do; any and every form of glass art or > technique is represented, although stained glass makes up the majority. > > __________________________________________ > Albert Lewis Executive Director > International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. > __________________________________________ > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 11:51:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u9yku-0001Boa; Thu, 18 Apr 96 11:48 PDT X-Path: nscad.ns.ca!patk From: patk@nscad.ns.ca (Patrick Kelley) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Glass Slumping Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 16:15:59 -0300 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all! This is the first time you have heard from me but I have been apart of this group for about a year now. I was wondering if anyone has done any glass slumping. A friend of my has an antique panel lamp with one of the panels broken. Each of the panels are slumped so we can make a mold out of an impression of one of the other panels. Could anyone please tell me: 1. What material should be used to make the mold? 2. Do you have to drill holes in the mold to allow for air to escape? (if so) How do you stop the air holes from making an impression on the glass? Thank Pat K. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 13:49:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uA0cW-0000u7a; Thu, 18 Apr 96 13:48 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Glass Slumping Date: 18 Apr 96 16:46:01 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr18.20461.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Pat, Sounds to me like you could really use a book or two ..."The Fused Glass Book" ($19.95) by Gil Reynolds, for instance. Or "Kiln Firing Glass: Glass Fusing Book One" ($35) by Boyce Lundstrom ... the king of fusing. Then there's "Glass Fusing Book Two ($40, same author), but "Glass Casting and Moldmaking" ($40, by -- who else? -- Boyce Lundstrom) is probably exactly what you need. Those are all available quite widely from wholesale and retail stained glass suppliers, from The Book Exchange in Corning, NY ... or from The Guild (ahem ... is that a blatant plug?) If you buy any books from the Guild's "Glass Library," the profits are set aside for the Guild's "Dream School," the year-round glass school that's being planned. (Of course, the Guild is not-for-profit, so it's not profits that are being set aside, but something else ... er, "extra leftover money"? Anyway, you get the idea. If you want the full particulars on The Glass Library and the books it carries, I'd be glad to oblige (of course). __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 13:50:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uA0cW-0001Aba; Thu, 18 Apr 96 13:48 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: My look at "Tiffany" Date: 18 Apr 96 16:45:57 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr18.204557.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ROFL! I *love Raymond! He's so much smarter than Tom Cruise. Well, *everybody's smarter than Cruise, truth be told. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 14:19:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uA15D-0001APa; Thu, 18 Apr 96 14:17 PDT X-Path: gr.cns.net!Pristine From: Pristine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Slumping Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 16:17:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr18.91747.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Pristine Glass Co. Precedence: bulk Patrick Kelley wrote: > I was wondering if anyone has done any glass > slumping. > 1. What material should be used to make the mold?I use a castible firebrick called Puro-lite 30 and make a concave mold from an original piece of glass w/ saran wrap as a separator. > 2. Do you have to drill holes in the mold to allow for air to escape?No. Slumping shuold occur before the glass is so hot that it would pick up any mold marks. -- * mickey mackenzie for Pristine Glass Co. * pristine@gr.cns.net * http://www.cns.net/pristine also * mickey@grfn.org * http://www.grfn.org/~mickey ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 15:11:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uA1ua-0000uda; Thu, 18 Apr 96 15:10 PDT X-Path: mailhost.hooked.net!nsherman From: "Neil Sherman" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: That Lovely, Shiny, Black Patina Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 15:07:55 -0800 Message-ID: <199604182210.PAA15172@mom.hooked.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Could someone share some tips with me for producing a nice shiny black patina on my finished work? Mine always comes out a little dull and I'd like it to look like the things I've admired in stores. What do you do, start to finish? Thanks! Bonnie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 16:05:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uA2kc-00018Ta; Thu, 18 Apr 96 16:04 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: That Lovely, Shiny, Black Patina Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 19:04:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr18.15423.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello: I have just recently started in stained glass. I have a company in the Houston TX called "Shattered Images". I have found 2 things that will help you get the desired results. 1) Use a cloth (rag) to apply the patina. Turn the rag frequently to a clean area to prevent uneven application. 2) After the patina is applied and the piece has been thouroughly washed and dried, apply a coat of carnouba-based car wax. Be sure to get the kind of wax that contains no abrasives. I use McGuires show car glaze personally. I have a '57 Chevy show car and it works great on both the stained glass and the car. Be sure to cover any areas that contain a rough pattern, such as "glue-chip", etc. The wax, even though it dries clear, is almost impossible to get out of all of the recesses. Hope this helps. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 16:32:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uA3Av-0000dHa; Thu, 18 Apr 96 16:31 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!glaslady From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re; offshore Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 19:33:02 -0400 Message-ID: <199604182333.TAA15173@mailserver1.tiac.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk well, jumping in again, I was one of the folks who commented about 'offshore' - and i meant offshore factories, rather than offshore artists. I was lucky enough a couple of years ago to visit the far east (offshore to many of us) and to be invited into the studio of one of the leading glass artists in Tokyo who then referred me to a studio in Hong kong. the differences in techniques that I observed there, particularly for wallsized panels , was fascination., they were using computers & plotters to lay out and adjust huge patterns. the artisans worked much like we do, but in quite cramped spaces, but what they produced was wonderful. any of you lucky enough to see the catalog of Japanese glass artisits show from 1990 (which stained glass workshop in NY was selling back then) will know what I mean. some REALLY interesting lamps that were unlike any I've seen here - one was a lighted woman's torso - lifesized. another was wonderfully sluped and blasted glass on a horizontal with an intersting abstract , contorted brass base. The artist I visited had done several walls for japanese schools (try this in most US schools - gone in 60 seconds) and hotels, his portfolio was really interesting. what made it more interesting was the retail outlet he had on site. with workareas & storage places for his customers - who couldn't work at home, due to the normal japanese home's cramped living space. the retail outlet was opened 20 hrs a day, to accomodate everyone. folks were constructing really intersting stuff for themselves or as gifts - there must have been 20 people there the day I vistied. The hong kong facility was even more modern and the quality of work was equally impressive. In both cases, the proprietors were very gracious to me and my non-glass friend who accompanied me - and we stumbled along in Japan through the language barrier quite well. The Japanese do one big show in TOkyo every year - with international participants. it's work on an impressive scale. however, in both locations, the employees were viewed as skilled artisans and were taking home nice checks - and the work turned out will never show up at HQ or Home depot. Actually the stuff I see at HQ reminds me of the "tiffany lamp' one of my aged aunties bought in Tijuana in the 60's (of course this is the same auntie who calls the 3 ft by 3 ft panel that I made her , with lashing s of dichroic glass in it a 'suncatcher' and doesn't mean it to be insulting....so... now this aunt LOVES the work I did, took it to church to show her church lady friends, points it out ot all visitors, so she's getting alot of enjoyment out of it - and she now understands the difference between a 'swap meet' lamp and a nicely put together one....so education goes a long way, I guess..... Judy in Northern MA Glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 17:21:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uA3wN-000150a; Thu, 18 Apr 96 17:20 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Looking for "Tiffany" Books. Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 20:20:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr18.162034.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello: I am looking for VERY USED copies of either "The Lamps of Tiffany" (neustadt) or "The Lamps of Tiffany Studios" (Duncan/Feldstein). I stress the terms very used as I could not possibly afford the current asking price for these. Hopefully, someone out there will have an old copy that they no longer want. Guitarshop@AOL.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 18:03:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uA4ah-0000wna; Thu, 18 Apr 96 18:02 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: discussions and esp.Albert Lewis / Howard Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 01:58:28 +0000 Message-ID: <199604190103.CAA24299@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everybody, Have followed the various discussions of Copyrights, Tiffany, Guild/s and miscellaneous patterns from my corner in the UK for some time now. It's been absolutely fascinating. And, yes Albert, you are quite right; it is a very "solitary" speciality. You sound an immensely "down-to-earth" chap with tons of common sense, knowledge and resources (and a nice touch of diplomacy....) Does "International" in your Guild , also conceivably include a Swede in the UK?? I too would be interested in receiving more details about "your" Guild ....?? You are also quite right in the comparison between "Kleenex" and "Tiffany". I am more of a "lead" person, I do make the occasional lamp in copper foil ; ( I also make clocks, because I happen to like clocks in general. ). My lamps are very simple, yet when people see them, they say "Oh, look! There is a "Tiffany" lamp!" The lamps that I do is ANYTHING ELSE B U T !! But this is how people here in Europe perceive any lampshade handmade out of glass. Howard, I have got a great sympathy for your reactions about people who just have no idea whatsoever.. As part of my promotional work (for stained glass) I also teach and allow myself to get dragged into "demonstration days" I have "even" been asked questions like "How do you "glue" the glass toether?" (It makes you cringe, no!!) I would love to hear more details about using my microwave oven as a kiln!! What type of microwave oven, please? (I have the revolving type) Just for slumping, fusing ? Could it possibly "cook" some colour details?? (An idea for the Baby writing project perhaps??) On the whole I don't fire glass at all, if I can avoid it. But I am in the position of getting together with a "potter" to buy a kiln jointly. I need higher temperatures than the potter does. I wouldn't mind having to get a second microwave oven for heating up my spagetti bolognese and keep the other one for the limited slumping/fusing/colouring I am likely to do. Ideas, experience, feed-back most welcome. please. Another question loosely tied to "copyright"; What is the difference between an "order" and a "commission", i.e. who owns the original drawings and the right to reproduce a second/third etc copy of these drawings - the Artist OR the Customer? I know I am asking from my corner in the UK, but so often what happens initially "over there" also ends up happening "over here". (Any comments, Albert?? Anyone??) Elisabeth ---- North Lights Stained Glass As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" ---- Visit my homepage:http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/nothlig/index.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 18 18:35:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uA55J-0000vIa; Thu, 18 Apr 96 18:34 PDT X-Path: idirect.com!mrum From: mrum@idirect.com (mike & carol) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: That Lovely, Shiny, Black Patina Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 21:33:45 -0400 Message-ID: <199604190133.VAA26968@lucid.idirect.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Could someone share some tips with me for producing a nice shiny >black patina on my finished work? Mine always comes out a little >dull and I'd like it to look like the things I've admired in stores. >What do you do, start to finish? >Thanks! >Bonnie Hi Bonnie, this is Carol. What works for me is well cleaned solder, patina applied while the solder is still warm from the hot water, a carnuba type wax or stained glass finishing compound, lots of terry cloth rags and most importantly, lots of elbow grease! Good luck ******************************************* Mike and Carol Rumak Mississauga, Ontario Canada Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at: http://web.idirect.com/~studio ******************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 19 01:42:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uABTh-0000wna; Fri, 19 Apr 96 01:23 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: That Lovely, Shiny, Black Patina Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 04:15:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199604190815.EAA16413@brutus.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 07:04 PM 4/18/96 -0400, you wrote: >Hello: > I have just recently started in stained glass. I have a company in the >Houston TX called "Shattered Images". I have found 2 things that will help >you get the desired results. > There are a couple of things I would like to add to this. When I use black patina, I apply it, then rinse it off, and dry it. But I don't rub the solder lines much, because it will rub off some of the patina. I let it wait for about 24 hours, then I apply the carnauba wax. And I have tried most car polishes - maybe not the one he is suggesting, but I prefer Kem-o-pro finishing compound because it is much easier to rub off. Then you will get your nice shiney *dark* black solder lines. Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 19 03:26:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uADFG-0000t5a; Fri, 19 Apr 96 03:16 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: discussions and esp.Albe Date: 19 Apr 96 06:12:53 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr19.101253.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elisabeth, The "international" in the Guild's name means precisely that ... there are already members in England, as well as in a number of other countries, including local chapters in South Africa, local chapters forming in India and Australia (at least, we've been asked for the model bylaws and have been told of great enthusiasm in those places), as well as in the U.S. Of course, the great majority of Guild members are in the States, but if I, as a Welsh/ Norwegian can be associated with the GUild, so can you as an England-dwelling Swede. I've sent the further info on the Guild to you privately. Thanks for your compliments and interest. To your question on the difference between an "order" and a "commission": Personally, my reaction is this ... let's say you're a producer of a line of stained glass lamps, model A, model B and model C. A customer calls and says, "I'd like two model As and one model C shipped to me." That's an order. A week later, he calls back and says, "Love the lamps you sent, but I'd like something different, something that's not in the catalog ... a large stained glass lamp to be hung over a billards table. It should be in the Tiffany tradition, but of your design. What would that cost and how long would it take to design, build and install?" That's a commission. IMHO. As to who owns the drawings and the right to reproduce work: Designs are copyrighted to the designer, unless the copyright is expressly signed over to and sold to someone else and that transfer made in writing by contract. Again, I'm no lawyer, but that's my understanding. If I were you (or any other artist/ craftsperson, I'd make it part of the small print on the back of every quote, invoice, contract ... well, every bit of paper that moves between myself and any customer, large or small. And I'd be sure to write "Copyright (C) 1996 Albert Lewis" on every drawing, sketch, and proposal, plus I'd etch it into the glass on panels and solder it into lamps. (For those who may be unaware ... and I'm citing U.S. copyright practices here ... the word "copyright" provides protection within the U.S., the c-in-a-circle is the international Swiss convention protecting it overseas.) Then I'd *pay the $20 and send the forms to the Library of Congress *registering the copyright, so if ever anyone *did reproduce the work in question, I could not only get a court to *stop them doing that, but also collect damages. Hey! That's *my creative work and you have no right to it unless you pays up! Of course, current copyright law in the U.S. doesn't require that you write *anything on drawings or finished work ... it's copyrighted as soon as you create it. But I'd rather err on the side of "overdoing" it, just to be sure. That's *my take on it. So, in sum: the customer has no rights to reproduction of designs, drawings or work unless he/she has entered into an agreement with you and paid you what you've agreed to take for those rights. By the way, I know an excellent copyright lawyer (U.S.), if anyone's interested. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 19 09:59:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uAJVF-00010ma; Fri, 19 Apr 96 09:57 PDT X-Path: MENTORG.COM!becky_gerlach From: Becky Gerlach To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Writing on Glass: REPORT Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 09:57:15 PDT Message-ID: <9604191657.AA26129@glass> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Well I ended up picking a DEKA brand paint, and while I haven't used it on the project yet(New baby project I wrote about), I have finished the expirements and thought I would tell you all the results. I basically tried 2 methods on an assortment of glass scraps. Method 1: Use a regular paint brush, apply a relatively thick coat and let air dry for 2 hours. (I checked at 2 hours and 24 hours) These are the directions on the bottle of paint. Method 2: Use a regular paint brush, apply a relatively thick coat, and bake in a 275 degree (Farenheit) oven for 15 minutes on a cookie sheet coated with aluminum foil. Both methods worked in that the paint will not come off with glass cleaner or scraping with a finger nail. I think I like the oven method a little better because it "became one" with the glass. With the air dry samples you can still feel a bump when you come to the border of the paint, but on the oven ones you can barely feel the paint at all. The other advantage to the oven ones is less scratching. I mentioned that I can't scrape the paint off with my fingernail, but it can sort of scratch the shine. It scratches less on the oven baked one. For those of you who are unfamiliar with these paints, they are transparent. One of my samples was a clear baroque, and you can still see through the painted bits. Thanks again to everybody for all their suggestions and help. Becky ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 19 11:45:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uALAa-00015Oa; Fri, 19 Apr 96 11:44 PDT X-Path: wnc.com!artglass From: artglass@wnc.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Web sites for stained glass Date: 19 Apr 1996 14:30:36 EDT Message-ID: <199604191841.OAA29484@mail-hub.interpath.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Try Glassgiraf@AOL.com or www.crescendoweb.com/glassgiraf/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 19 11:52:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uALH4-00019qa; Fri, 19 Apr 96 11:51 PDT X-Path: wnc.com!artglass From: artglass@wnc.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Computer what!?! Date: 19 Apr 1996 14:37:26 EDT Message-ID: <199604191848.OAA00184@mail-hub.interpath.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Please work on research and development of software that can be used by the stain glass artist which is relatively simple and will speed up the design process by using a design library that is easily changed or enhanced!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 19 11:55:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uALKK-00010Ha; Fri, 19 Apr 96 11:54 PDT X-Path: wnc.com!artglass From: artglass@wnc.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Sun Pattern Date: 19 Apr 1996 14:40:46 EDT Message-ID: <199604191851.OAA00525@mail-hub.interpath.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Try looking in the mosiac stepping stones pattern book, it has a great sunshine that you can adapt to foil or lead. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 19 12:16:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uALeN-00014Qa; Fri, 19 Apr 96 12:15 PDT X-Path: wnc.com!artglass From: artglass@wnc.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: stepping stones Date: 19 Apr 1996 15:01:20 EDT Message-ID: <199604191912.PAA02443@mail-hub.interpath.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You need to ask the concrete co., but I think if the stepping stones are done properly that there should be no problem. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 19 12:19:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uALhG-00013Ya; Fri, 19 Apr 96 12:18 PDT X-Path: wnc.com!artglass From: artglass@wnc.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patterns Date: 19 Apr 1996 15:04:06 EDT Message-ID: <199604191915.PAA02700@mail-hub.interpath.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glasdesign systems in CA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 19 12:25:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uALnU-000146a; Fri, 19 Apr 96 12:24 PDT X-Path: wnc.com!artglass From: artglass@wnc.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Stepping stone forms Date: 19 Apr 1996 15:10:48 EDT Message-ID: <199604191921.PAA03315@mail-hub.interpath.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Yes, paid $30.00 for it and Lowes has it for $25.00. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 19 16:04:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uAPCy-0000ona; Fri, 19 Apr 96 16:03 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Copyright discussions Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 23:59:12 +0000 Message-ID: <199604192304.AAA31796@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis; Many thanks for your info and replies. Have sent you further mail direct. Regards ---- North Lights Stained Glass As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" ---- Visit my homepage:http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/nothlig/index.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 19 16:46:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uAPrO-000198a; Fri, 19 Apr 96 16:45 PDT X-Path: netzone.com!lorley From: "Lorley L. Oneyear" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Side Panel Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:44:42 -0700 Message-ID: <199604192344.QAA23567@nz1.netzone.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello gang, Thinking about doing a side panel for a door for a co-worker.. Approximate dimensions are 10" wide by 70" tall.. I have done some panels that are not as tall and was wondering if I will have to reinforce this one at all.. The panels really seem to firm up after grouting (I use came mostly) so I'm not sure if there is any rule of thumb about adding those reinforcement strips across the panel. Any suggestions?? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 19 21:17:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uAU3L-0000mva; Fri, 19 Apr 96 21:13 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 00:12:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr19.201253.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I recently purchased "Glass Magic" ver 2.0. Althought it is limited to panel lamps and a few boxes, it is the only thing that I have found. I have thought about using ACAD, but, it is too complicated for most users. I too would like to see somone come up with something easier. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 20 02:02:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uAYRY-0000XOa; Sat, 20 Apr 96 01:55 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Date: 20 Apr 96 04:52:23 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr20.85223.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk There's been a lot of discussion in the Glass section on CompuServe about this subject. The (fairly) final take seems to be that Corel Draw is the easiest to use; you can lay down the shapes, change their colors, make global changes of line weights (so the heart is accounted for, if you're using lead), etc. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 20 14:34:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uAkGk-0000KEa; Sat, 20 Apr 96 14:32 PDT X-Path: compuserve.com!104444.3177 From: ALLEN GREEN <104444.3177@compuserve.com> To: Glassbungi Subject: Subscription Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 17:32:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr20.13323.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk subscribe Glass 104444.3177@compuserv ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 20 19:18:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uAohn-00016Oa; Sat, 20 Apr 96 19:16 PDT X-Path: qed.net!scott From: scott@qed.net (Scott Liebert) To: Glass@Bungi.com Subject: Sconces Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 22:18:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr20.15182.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Iam interested in stained glass sconces{ tiffany style}. Can you Help? Thanks Scott ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 20 19:35:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uAoyu-0000xta; Sat, 20 Apr 96 19:34 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Side Panel Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 22:34:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr20.18347.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Haven't done one that size myself, but I was discussing one exactly that size with Carolyn Kyle (the pattern designer and book author). She suggested breaking the pattern into three parts and actually building three panels. Any other thoughts? Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 02:39:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uAvXa-0000vza; Sun, 21 Apr 96 02:34 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Sconces Date: 21 Apr 96 05:31:40 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr21.93140.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Iam interested in stained glass sconces{ tiffany style}. Can you Help? In what way are you interested? Do you want to buy in bulk, find patterns, or locate auctions in which they might be included? __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 09:57:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB2QP-0000UEa; Sun, 21 Apr 96 09:55 PDT X-Path: aol.com!LBettin From: LBettin@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: "Glass Sculptor" Cutter Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:55:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr21.85540.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have this glass cutter, which I have not used yet so can't comment on performance. However, the manufacturer seems to be: Distlefink Designs, Inc. P.O. Box 24 South Britai, CT 06487 It is sitting in the box that I bought it in and the assembly instructions seemed a little daunting, so I decided to wait til I had some time (which I obviously have not found, or made, to date). Let me know if you are able to contact these people and if you have any luck. Laura, in Carson City, NV ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 10:17:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB2k8-0000ZJa; Sun, 21 Apr 96 10:16 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Writing on Glass: REPORT Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:14:26 +0600 Message-ID: <9604210514.AA13891@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am wodering how light fast these Deka paints are. And if they are more or less so depending on how you dry them? Anyone know? Meg At 09:57 AM 19/4/96 PDT, you wrote: > >Well I ended up picking a DEKA brand paint, and while I haven't >used it on the project yet(New baby project I wrote about), >I have finished the expirements and thought I would tell you all >the results. > >I basically tried 2 methods on an assortment of glass scraps. > >Method 1: > >Use a regular paint brush, apply a relatively thick coat and let >air dry for 2 hours. (I checked at 2 hours and 24 hours) >These are the directions on the bottle of paint. > >Method 2: > >Use a regular paint brush, apply a relatively thick coat, and >bake in a 275 degree (Farenheit) oven for 15 minutes on a >cookie sheet coated with aluminum foil. > > >Both methods worked in that the paint will not come off with glass >cleaner or scraping with a finger nail. I think I like the oven >method a little better because it "became one" with the glass. >With the air dry samples you can still feel a bump when you come >to the border of the paint, but on the oven ones you can barely >feel the paint at all. The other advantage to the oven ones is >less scratching. I mentioned that I can't scrape the paint off >with my fingernail, but it can sort of scratch the shine. It scratches >less on the oven baked one. > >For those of you who are unfamiliar with these paints, they are transparent. >One of my samples was a clear baroque, and you can still see through the >painted bits. > >Thanks again to everybody for all their suggestions and help. > >Becky >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ****************************************** Richard and Meg Laval Monteverde, Costa Rica ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 11:00:12 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB3PD-0000pIa; Sun, 21 Apr 96 10:58 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Side Panel Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 10:55:58 -0700 Message-ID: <199604211755.KAA09870@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Hello gang, Thinking about doing a side panel for a door for a co-worker.. >Approximate dimensions are 10" wide by 70" tall.. I have done some panels >that are not as tall and was wondering if I will have to reinforce this one >at all.. The panels really seem to firm up after grouting (I use came >mostly) so I'm not sure if there is any rule of thumb about adding those >reinforcement strips across the panel. Any suggestions?? > >---- I would suggest using rebar on a panel this long especialy in a doorway as the air preasure change can cause stress in the long run. The question in regards to strength is more one for the long term. In a commision how long would you like to waranty your installation? The rebars alone are not a solution however, anchoring them into the frame or moldings is of equal or greater import. A good rule of thumb is one bar every 8"-12". Run the bars to just over "heart" and by all meens make sure that they are long enough to notch into the molding or frame. Proper anchoring of the panel is also very important. If you are not using continuous molding tack the panel at every oportunity (read every joint) Good Luck MS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 11:02:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB3RK-0000sFa; Sun, 21 Apr 96 11:00 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:01:43 -0700 Message-ID: <199604211801.LAA10769@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > >There's been a lot of discussion in the Glass section on CompuServe about >this subject. The (fairly) final take seems to be that Corel Draw is the >easiest to use; you can lay down the shapes, change their colors, make global >changes of line weights (so the heart is accounted for, if you're using >lead), etc. > The only problem of course is the size restrictions that corell places on your designs. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 11:10:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB3Ze-0000iWa; Sun, 21 Apr 96 11:09 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Side Panel Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:09:48 -0700 Message-ID: <199604211809.LAA09362@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Haven't done one that size myself, but I was discussing one exactly that size >with Carolyn Kyle (the pattern designer and book author). She suggested >breaking the pattern into three parts and actually building three panels. > Any other thoughts? Barbara >---- Why?? What problem would that solve? The question is not "panel size" but proper installation techniques. Installation is an art in itself and requires the same attention to method and detail that proper design and construction of an art glass panel requires. A properly reinforced and installed panel can go for fifty years or more without problems even if there are "design flaws". But a wonderfuly designed and executed panel poorly installed is destined to fail in short order. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 11:15:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB3eU-0000vva; Sun, 21 Apr 96 11:14 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Slumping Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:14:57 -0700 Message-ID: <199604211814.LAA09567@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Hi all! > >This is the first time you have heard from me but I have been apart of this >group for about a year now. I was wondering if anyone has done any glass >slumping. A friend of my has an antique panel lamp with one of the panels >broken. Each of the panels are slumped so we can make a mold out of an >impression of one of the other panels. Could anyone please tell me: > >1. What material should be used to make the mold? >2. Do you have to drill holes in the mold to allow for air to escape? > (if so) How do you stop the air holes from making an impression > on the glass? > > Slumping is a very tricky job. many many things can and do go wrong. One way to go is to use "metal casting plaster". This product is designed to vent the gasses incountered in high temp firings. The problem with theses temps is that most plaster revert back to calcium when exposed to heat. be prepared to experiment, and loose a few pieces. MS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 14:58:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB78B-0000wBa; Sun, 21 Apr 96 14:57 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Side Panel Date: 21 Apr 96 17:55:56 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr21.215556.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >The rebars alone are not a solution however, anchoring them into the >frame or moldings is of equal or greater import. A good rule of thumb is >one bar every 8"-12". Run the bars to just over "heart" and by all meens >make sure that they are long enough to notch into the molding or frame. That seems closer than is really needed, but it certainly won't hurt. Don't forget to use tie wires to connect the support bars to the panel, though. I've actually seen installations where there was no connection at all! Guess the craftsperson thought it was support by association or appearance. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 16:04:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB8A6-0000QJa; Sun, 21 Apr 96 16:03 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Side Panel; Re-inforcement? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 00:01:17 +0000 Message-ID: <199604212305.AAA05284@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Breaking down the panels into approx. 3 ft sections is one option, but it can be quite complicated. My own stained glass mentors in the UK and in deed text books , over here, prescribe that panels designed in one section should be re-inforced every 20"-24" (width and height). On front door panels (i.e. a structure that is frequently moved about i.e. open, shut, banged etc), the re-inforcement should be tighter. However, your panel is a SIDE-panel. I assume it is fixed, i.e. no opening mechanisms involved, so it will remain static and not subjected to handling and/or other stresses. Although the panel is just under 1 ft. wide, it is nevertheless almost 6 ft. tall. It would be foolhardy NOT to re-inforce it. The likelihood of it starting to bow within 3-5 years is almost inevitable. There are 4 methods you can employ to re-inforce the panel; 1, externally through fitting iron bars across the panel and into the wood /masonary work with saddles (every 20"-24" !!) 2. "Hole-in-the-heart " lead through which you feed steel bars internally (though they are difficult to work); 3. Thin-ner steel re-inforcement bars that you lay against the heart of the lead (and hence can work more sympathetically WITH your design - but you will need more of it); 4. A combination of all three above. Make sure you keep the drawings for future problems, so that should something go wrong (heaven forbid), you know exactly where your re-inforcements are. Hope this is helpful. Best Regards, ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 16:08:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB8Dg-0000xta; Sun, 21 Apr 96 16:07 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Side Panel Date: 21 Apr 96 17:56:02 EDT Message-ID: <960421215602_70544.3642_JHD96-3@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>breaking the pattern into three parts and actually building three >>panels. Any other thoughts? Barbara >Why?? What problem would that solve? Actually, stacking panels is quite the traditional method. Note that Julie Sloan, in "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," [1995, Art in Architecture Press]: T-bars are usually set into the sash or frame of the window opening with the flange to the outside, supporting the weight of the upper panel on the leg of the T. This keeps the weight off the panel beneath it. The top member of the T, which is vertical in installation, is a flange that holds the panels vertical and keeps them from leaning outward. So a design divided into segments, each segment separately supported, yet resting on the segment beneath it, benefits from being easier to dismantle should restoration or repair become necessary, as well as easier to handle than a window created and installed as a single, continuous panel. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 16:08:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB8Dr-0000Msa; Sun, 21 Apr 96 16:07 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Date: 21 Apr 96 17:55:59 EDT Message-ID: <960421215559_70544.3642_JHD96-2@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >The (fairly) final take seems to be that Corel Draw is the >easiest to use; you can lay down the shapes, change their colors, >make global changes of line weights (so the heart is accounted for, if >you're using lead), etc. >The only problem of course is the size restrictions that corell places >on your designs. What sort of restrictions do you mean? Size? Hmm. I've designed for 2" square layouts ... and 6'x 9', although I haven't tried anything larger. Of course, I'm just guessing that you mean larger than that. There's no limit that I can see ... I just click on "Custom" for layout size and enter whatever I want. (Running CorelDraw 4.0 at 133MHz with 64Mb RAM) __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 17:09:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB9AX-0000aIa; Sun, 21 Apr 96 17:07 PDT X-Path: netline.net!leestat From: leestat@netline.net (Lee Boe) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Slumping Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 19:29:38 -0400 Message-ID: <199604212329.TAA15272@tesla.netline.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Here is a suggestion, try using Jewelry casting investment, Like Satin Cast or Ultra-Vest. Package comes with directions. I have fired (in a kiln) this material to 1325 deg & 1450 deg (in a flask for burn ing out a wax positive model to create a negative mold to cast the gold into. The material holds up very well in this use, so once dry would be a temporary mold for slumping. Are are the temps used in slumping much higher than this???? Just a thought, but there may be a specific material out there that is used for glass. Satin-cast & Ultra Vest is also used in Dental casting. It is Available from Rio-Grande in Alburquerque, NM 1-800-545-6566 They will send their tool catalog, and many jewelry tools are useful for Stained Glass work and Glass Painting. Casting Plaster will disentergrate after firing when exposed to water. (In jewelry making it must, as it is quenched to release the casting. I quench in a bucket of water when the "button has quit glowing" about 700 deg I think. Lee Boe-Sarasota Florida >You wrote: >> >>Hi all! >> >>This is the first time you have heard from me but I have been apart of >this >>group for about a year now. I was wondering if anyone has done any >glass >>slumping. A friend of my has an antique panel lamp with one of the >panels >>broken. Each of the panels are slumped so we can make a mold out of >an >>impression of one of the other panels. Could anyone please tell me: >> >>1. What material should be used to make the mold? >>2. Do you have to drill holes in the mold to allow for air to escape? >> (if so) How do you stop the air holes from making an impression >> on the glass? >> >> >Slumping is a very tricky job. many many things can and do go wrong. >One way to go is to use "metal casting plaster". This product is >designed to vent the gasses incountered in high temp firings. The >problem with theses temps is that most plaster revert back to calcium >when exposed to heat. be prepared to experiment, and loose a few >pieces. > >MS > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 17:16:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB9HE-0000x4a; Sun, 21 Apr 96 17:14 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BLFstar From: BLFstar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Side Panel Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 20:14:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr21.16142.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Actually, stacking panels is quite the traditional method Albert: Thanks for the defense. I wasn't trying to start a word war. Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 17:30:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB9Ub-0000era; Sun, 21 Apr 96 17:28 PDT X-Path: PRMSMESSCALL.nwest.attws.com!POSTMASTER From: "Adminstrator" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mail failure Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 5:26pm Message-ID: <199604220028.RAA22898@nwestmail.nwest.mccaw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk TIME: 17:26 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: TELEPAGE\MESSGDEV/phillg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Albert Lewis [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] To: glass [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] Date: 1996-04-21 17:55 Subject: Re: Side Panel --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The rebars alone are not a solution however, anchoring them into the >frame or moldings is of equal or greater import. A good rule of thumb is >one bar every 8"-12". Run the bars to just over "heart" and by all meens >make sure that they are long enough to notch into the molding or frame. That seems closer than is really needed, but it certainly won't hurt. Don't forget to use tie wires to connect the support bars to the panel, though. I've actually seen installations where there was no connection at all! Guess the craftsperson thought it was support by association or appearance. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 17:31:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB9Vm-0000xFa; Sun, 21 Apr 96 17:29 PDT X-Path: PRMSMESSCALL.nwest.attws.com!POSTMASTER From: "Adminstrator" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mail failure Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 5:27pm Message-ID: <199604220029.RAA23127@nwestmail.nwest.mccaw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk TIME: 17:27 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: TELEPAGE\MESSGDEV/phillg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Toby [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] To: glass [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] Date: 1996-04-22 00:01 Subject: Re: Side Panel; Re-inforcement? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Breaking down the panels into approx. 3 ft sections is one option, but it can be quite complicated. My own stained glass mentors in the UK and in deed text books , over here, prescribe that panels designed in one section should be re-inforced every 20"-24" (width and height). On front door panels (i.e. a structure that is frequently moved about i.e. open, shut, banged etc), the re-inforcement should be tighter. However, your panel is a SIDE-panel. I assume it is fixed, i.e. no opening mechanisms involved, so it will remain static and not subjected to handling and/or other stresses. Although the panel is just under 1 ft. wide, it is nevertheless almost 6 ft. tall. It would be foolhardy NOT to re-inforce it. The likelihood of it starting to bow within 3-5 years is almost inevitable. There are 4 methods you can employ to re-inforce the panel; 1, externally through fitting iron bars across the panel and into the wood /masonary work with saddles (every 20"-24" !!) 2. "Hole-in-the-heart " lead through which you feed steel bars internally (though they are difficult to work); 3. Thin-ner steel re-inforcement bars that you lay against the heart of the lead (and hence can work more sympathetically WITH your design - but you will need more of it); 4. A combination of all three above. Make sure you keep the drawings for future problems, so that should something go wrong (heaven forbid), you know exactly where your re-inforcements are. Hope this is helpful. Best Regards, ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 17:32:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB9Vi-0000pza; Sun, 21 Apr 96 17:29 PDT X-Path: PRMSMESSCALL.nwest.attws.com!POSTMASTER From: "Adminstrator" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mail failure Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 5:27pm Message-ID: <199604220029.RAA23112@nwestmail.nwest.mccaw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk TIME: 17:27 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: TELEPAGE\MESSGDEV/phillg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Albert Lewis [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] To: glass [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] Date: 1996-04-21 17:56 Subject: Re: Side Panel --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>breaking the pattern into three parts and actually building three >>panels. Any other thoughts? Barbara >Why?? What problem would that solve? Actually, stacking panels is quite the traditional method. Note that Julie Sloan, in "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," [1995, Art in Architecture Press]: T-bars are usually set into the sash or frame of the window opening with the flange to the outside, supporting the weight of the upper panel on the leg of the T. This keeps the weight off the panel beneath it. The top member of the T, which is vertical in installation, is a flange that holds the panels vertical and keeps them from leaning outward. So a design divided into segments, each segment separately supported, yet resting on the segment beneath it, benefits from being easier to dismantle should restoration or repair become necessary, as well as easier to handle than a window created and installed as a single, continuous panel. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 17:53:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB9q7-000059a; Sun, 21 Apr 96 17:50 PDT X-Path: PRMSMESSCALL.nwest.attws.com!POSTMASTER From: "Adminstrator" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mail failure Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 5:49pm Message-ID: <199604220050.RAA24791@nwestmail.nwest.mccaw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk TIME: 17:49 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: TELEPAGE\MESSGDEV/phillg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Lee Boe [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] To: glass [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] Date: 1996-04-21 19:29 Subject: Re: Glass Slumping --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is a suggestion, try using Jewelry casting investment, Like Satin Cast or Ultra-Vest. Package comes with directions. I have fired (in a kiln) this material to 1325 deg & 1450 deg (in a flask for burn ing out a wax positive model to create a negative mold to cast the gold into. The material holds up very well in this use, so once dry would be a temporary mold for slumping. Are are the temps used in slumping much higher than this???? Just a thought, but there may be a specific material out there that is used for glass. Satin-cast & Ultra Vest is also used in Dental casting. It is Available from Rio-Grande in Alburquerque, NM 1-800-545-6566 They will send their tool catalog, and many jewelry tools are useful for Stained Glass work and Glass Painting. Casting Plaster will disentergrate after firing when exposed to water. (In jewelry making it must, as it is quenched to release the casting. I quench in a bucket of water when the "button has quit glowing" about 700 deg I think. Lee Boe-Sarasota Florida >You wrote: >> >>Hi all! >> >>This is the first time you have heard from me but I have been apart of >this >>group for about a year now. I was wondering if anyone has done any >glass >>slumping. A friend of my has an antique panel lamp with one of the >panels >>broken. Each of the panels are slumped so we can make a mold out of >an >>impression of one of the other panels. Could anyone please tell me: >> >>1. What material should be used to make the mold? >>2. Do you have to drill holes in the mold to allow for air to escape? >> (if so) How do you stop the air holes from making an impression >> on the glass? >> >> >Slumping is a very tricky job. many many things can and do go wrong. >One way to go is to use "metal casting plaster". This product is >designed to vent the gasses incountered in high temp firings. The >problem with theses temps is that most plaster revert back to calcium >when exposed to heat. be prepared to experiment, and loose a few >pieces. > >MS > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 17:53:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB9qW-0000IZa; Sun, 21 Apr 96 17:51 PDT X-Path: PRMSMESSCALL.nwest.attws.com!POSTMASTER From: "Adminstrator" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mail failure Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 5:49pm Message-ID: <199604220051.RAA24842@nwestmail.nwest.mccaw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk TIME: 17:49 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: TELEPAGE\MESSGDEV/phillg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Adminstrator [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] To: glass [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] Date: 1996-04-21 17:27 Subject: Mail failure --------------------------------------------------------------------------- TIME: 17:27 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: TELEPAGE\MESSGDEV/phillg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Albert Lewis [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] To: glass [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] Date: 1996-04-21 17:56 Subject: Re: Side Panel --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>breaking the pattern into three parts and actually building three >>panels. Any other thoughts? Barbara >Why?? What problem would that solve? Actually, stacking panels is quite the traditional method. Note that Julie Sloan, in "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," [1995, Art in Architecture Press]: T-bars are usually set into the sash or frame of the window opening with the flange to the outside, supporting the weight of the upper panel on the leg of the T. This keeps the weight off the panel beneath it. The top member of the T, which is vertical in installation, is a flange that holds the panels vertical and keeps them from leaning outward. So a design divided into segments, each segment separately supported, yet resting on the segment beneath it, benefits from being easier to dismantle should restoration or repair become necessary, as well as easier to handle than a window created and installed as a single, continuous panel. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 17:53:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB9qQ-0000J9a; Sun, 21 Apr 96 17:51 PDT X-Path: PRMSMESSCALL.nwest.attws.com!POSTMASTER From: "Adminstrator" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mail failure Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 5:49pm Message-ID: <199604220050.RAA24830@nwestmail.nwest.mccaw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk TIME: 17:49 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: TELEPAGE\MESSGDEV/phillg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Adminstrator [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] To: glass [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] Date: 1996-04-21 17:26 Subject: Mail failure --------------------------------------------------------------------------- TIME: 17:26 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: TELEPAGE\MESSGDEV/phillg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Albert Lewis [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] To: glass [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] Date: 1996-04-21 17:55 Subject: Re: Side Panel --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The rebars alone are not a solution however, anchoring them into the >frame or moldings is of equal or greater import. A good rule of thumb is >one bar every 8"-12". Run the bars to just over "heart" and by all meens >make sure that they are long enough to notch into the molding or frame. That seems closer than is really needed, but it certainly won't hurt. Don't forget to use tie wires to connect the support bars to the panel, though. I've actually seen installations where there was no connection at all! Guess the craftsperson thought it was support by association or appearance. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 21 17:53:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uB9qW-0000QJa; Sun, 21 Apr 96 17:51 PDT X-Path: PRMSMESSCALL.nwest.attws.com!POSTMASTER From: "Adminstrator" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mail failure Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 5:49pm Message-ID: <199604220050.RAA24836@nwestmail.nwest.mccaw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk TIME: 17:49 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: TELEPAGE\MESSGDEV/phillg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Adminstrator [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] To: glass [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] Date: 1996-04-21 17:27 Subject: Mail failure --------------------------------------------------------------------------- TIME: 17:27 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: TELEPAGE\MESSGDEV/phillg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Toby [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] To: glass [SMTP:glass@bungi.com] Date: 1996-04-22 00:01 Subject: Re: Side Panel; Re-inforcement? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Breaking down the panels into approx. 3 ft sections is one option, but it can be quite complicated. My own stained glass mentors in the UK and in deed text books , over here, prescribe that panels designed in one section should be re-inforced every 20"-24" (width and height). On front door panels (i.e. a structure that is frequently moved about i.e. open, shut, banged etc), the re-inforcement should be tighter. However, your panel is a SIDE-panel. I assume it is fixed, i.e. no opening mechanisms involved, so it will remain static and not subjected to handling and/or other stresses. Although the panel is just under 1 ft. wide, it is nevertheless almost 6 ft. tall. It would be foolhardy NOT to re-inforce it. The likelihood of it starting to bow within 3-5 years is almost inevitable. There are 4 methods you can employ to re-inforce the panel; 1, externally through fitting iron bars across the panel and into the wood /masonary work with saddles (every 20"-24" !!) 2. "Hole-in-the-heart " lead through which you feed steel bars internally (though they are difficult to work); 3. Thin-ner steel re-inforcement bars that you lay against the heart of the lead (and hence can work more sympathetically WITH your design - but you will need more of it); 4. A combination of all three above. Make sure you keep the drawings for future problems, so that should something go wrong (heaven forbid), you know exactly where your re-inforcements are. Hope this is helpful. Best Regards, ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 22 08:29:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBNT0-0000pWa; Mon, 22 Apr 96 08:23 PDT X-Path: aye.net!chh From: Charles Harmon To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Door Transom Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 10:09:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr22.397.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I recently purchased a transom from a old house that was being demolished. It is 76" wide and 18" high. The frame has been doved tailed together and there are no broken or missing pieces of glass. The problem is that the panel is bowed outward is there any way that this panel could be flattened back short of removing it from the frame that iss holding it. The panel was set into a channel cut in the frame then the frame was assembled. The frame is in perfect shape and the joints are not loose on any corner. I would like to preserve the panel as close to original as possible. Any suggestions? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 22 15:59:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBUYF-0001G1a; Mon, 22 Apr 96 15:57 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Door Transom Date: 22 Apr 96 18:56:45 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr22.225645.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >The problem is that the panel is bowed outward is there any way that this >panel could be flattened back short of removing it from the frame that >iss holding it. Again, from Julie Sloan's "Conservation of Stained Glass in America" [1995, Art in Architecture Press], available from the Guild's "Glass Library": Flattening Bowed Windows If the came of the window does not require replacement, the window can usually be flattened. In order to flatten a window successfully, all elements must be removed from it that might prevent that flattening. This usually includes the frame or sash, all bars, putty, and sometimes plates. In order to be flattened, the window must be able to be placed horizontally. To try to flatten a window in place is likely to either cause damage to the window or to be unsuccessful; it is not a recommended approach. It is not usually advisable to try to flatten a window in its frame. It is difficult to support the glass well in a horizontal position while it is framed. In addition, the overall dimensions of the panel may increase as it flattens out, because the lead is stretched. If the panel is framed, this growing often cannot occur and the panel may not flatten. Therefore, take the panel out of its frame before attempting any flattening. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 22 17:19:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBVob-0000jga; Mon, 22 Apr 96 17:18 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Side Panel Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 17:17:56 -0700 Message-ID: <199604230017.RAA03738@ix13.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > >That seems closer than is really needed, but it certainly won't hurt. Don't >forget to use tie wires to connect the support bars to the panel, though. >I've actually seen installations where there was no connection at all! Guess >the craftsperson thought it was support by association or appearance. > Another common practice is to use 1/8 x 3/8 galvanized steel rebar soldered at every joint directly to the panel. You are right regarding the closeness in this particular case. In a larger window however this rule works well. It is better when stating general guidlines to be over cautious MS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 22 17:26:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBVvQ-0000uta; Mon, 22 Apr 96 17:25 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Side Panel Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 17:22:11 -0700 Message-ID: <199604230022.RAA16083@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > >>breaking the pattern into three parts and actually building three > >>panels. Any other thoughts? Barbara >>Why?? What problem would that solve? > >Actually, stacking panels is quite the traditional method. Note that Julie >Sloan, in "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," [1995, Art in >Architecture Press]: > > T-bars are usually set into the sash or frame of the window > opening with the flange to the outside, supporting the weight of > the upper panel on the leg of the T. This keeps the weight off > the panel beneath it. The top member of the T, which is vertical > in installation, is a flange that holds the panels vertical and > keeps them from leaning outward. > >So a design divided into segments, each segment separately supported, yet >resting on the segment beneath it, benefits from being easier to dismantle >should restoration or repair become necessary, as well as easier to handle >than a window created and installed as a single, continuous panel. > > __________________________________________ >This is true but we are talking about a panel of only 12" x 60" or so. It seems like using "t" bars, which would cause a 1" min. sight line might be a bit of overkill. In any case My main point is that installation technique is the issue, not the size of the panel. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 22 17:52:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBWKr-00015Ya; Mon, 22 Apr 96 17:52 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 17:53:09 -0700 Message-ID: <199604230053.RAA18839@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > >What sort of restrictions do you mean? Size? Hmm. I've designed for 2" >square layouts ... and 6'x 9', although I haven't tried anything larger. >Of course, I'm just guessing that you mean larger than that. There's no >limit that I can see ... I just click on "Custom" for layout size and enter >whatever I want. (Running CorelDraw 4.0 at 133MHz with 64Mb RAM) > > Where you able to print out the large designs? If so What service did you use? Did they need to convert your work into a vector format? Though corell is fun to work in it seems to be more oriented towards desktop publishing than large scale art work imo. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 22 18:12:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBWdi-0000lLa; Mon, 22 Apr 96 18:11 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Door Transom Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 18:15:00 -0700 Message-ID: <199604230115.SAA17801@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > > >The problem is that the panel is bowed outward is there any way that this > >panel could be flattened back short of removing it from the frame that > >iss holding it. > >Again, from Julie Sloan's "Conservation of Stained Glass in America" [1995, >Art in Architecture Press], available from the Guild's "Glass Library": > > Therefore, take the panel > out of its frame before attempting any flattening. > > __________________________________________ >I agree. The only way to properly do work of this sort is through removal af the panel from the sash. Once the panel is out it is important to determine why the panel bowed in the first place. It is not uncommon for a panel to be installed to large for it's surround. All architectural elements expand and contract due to a variety of causes. they do this dance at different rates depending on the material. therefore proper installation of an art glass panel calls for an allowance to be made for this movement. If such an allowance is not made the panel will move other dirrections. As I mentioned in an earlier note, the proper anchoring of properly affixed rebar ( weather saddle bars secured with copper wire or flat galvanized stock soldered dirrectly to the panel) into the frame or the frame moldings is also very important. Another element worth note is the type and condition of the sealant. An old dryed out sealant can actualy cause damage to a panel by resticting the movement that the panel requires. I've seen panels that have literaly torn themselves apart because the perimeter pieces were held in the vise lie grip of old putty, while the rest of the panel continued to move. This problem can also extend to the glazing compound used to "cement" the window. Some studios used to use portland cement in their "cement" formulas. You can immagin what this stuff was like when it dried out. As noted in Julie Sloans exerpt, removal of old dried out glazing compound (cement) may be nessesary to flatten the bow. MS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 22 18:33:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBWy4-0000uya; Mon, 22 Apr 96 18:32 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Side Panel Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 18:31:23 -0700 Message-ID: <199604230131.SAA06133@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Albert: Thanks for the defense. I wasn't trying to start a word war. > Barbara > > >---- Barbara: I was not trying to get involved in a "war" I was only offering information on a subject that was not often if ever addressed in this group. People often fail to see the importance of method in installation. As I mentioned installation is an art in itself and if not done properly can cause an early demise to a beautiful piece of art. Even stacked panels need to be properly installed, and if anything the additional hardware actualy raise more issues and problems. This is especialy true for people who havent had much experience with installation. For instance, the "t" bar needs to be anchored independently of the panel that it is sitting on. If it is'nt it can actualy cause a problem. Space needs to be left at the base and head of each panel to allow for movement. The panels should be seated on blocks, and the panel still needs to be anchored at the rebars into the sash, or moldings. I have been working professionaly in all phases of the glass arts for twenty five years and have had quite a bit of experience in all types of installations, from stone regglets to wood and steel sash. I've seen many failed panels and many that have been in place for 60 - 80 years and are still in great condition except for the dirt. In any case installation should not be seen as the red haired stepchild of art glass. It needs to be approached with the same dedication to detail that many of those on this list seem to show in the design and fabrication of their works. MS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 22 18:38:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBX33-0000Ypa; Mon, 22 Apr 96 18:37 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Writing on Glass: REPORT Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 18:36:24 -0700 Message-ID: <199604230136.SAA19103@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >I am wodering how light fast these Deka paints are. And if they are more or >less so depending on how you dry them? Anyone know? Meg > >>Well I ended up picking a DEKA brand paint, >>For those of you who are unfamiliar with these paints, they are transparent. >>One of my samples was a clear baroque, and you can still see through the >>painted bits. >> If you want a light fast product try a black epoxy paint. Pratt & Lambert makes one that works quite well. It does not have to be fired, and though it can be scraped off with persistence is quite immune to the casual fingernail. If you want a mor secure bond you can ligthly blast or etch the lettering prior to applying the paint. ****************************************** > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 22 20:41:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBYwh-0000VBa; Mon, 22 Apr 96 20:39 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Side Panel Date: 22 Apr 96 23:35:49 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr23.33549.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >In any case installation should not be seen as the red haired stepchild >of art glass. It needs to be approached with the same dedication to >detail that many of those on this list seem to show in the design and >fabrication of their works. Absolutely on the money! Well-designed work must also be well-installed. Lovely phrasing: "the red-haired stepchild of stained glass." ROFL Went along on a tour of four Manhattan churches, led by Julie Sloan for the Cooper-Hewitt last Sunday. A certain very-well-known studio restored windows in one of the churches a few years ago; they apparently found it easier to leave the plates off plated windows in most cases, to cut 1/2"-1" of original glass off and throw it away (and where they'd cut too much, to merely fill in the spaces with dark putty!), to leave out fillets that had been in the windows no doubt because it wasn't cost-effective to take the time and spend the labor doing the work right ... in short, to do the windows more harm than good and still have the gall to call it "restoration." Aaarragh! What were originally rich colors with mysterious overlays and gorgeous intonations are now glaringly bright and thin. Betcha they sold the church on how "clean" the windows had become, thanks to their "restoration," and I'll also lay odds on how much original Tiffany glass they ended up with. Tons. (Well... a few hundred pounds, anyway.) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 22 21:09:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBZNX-0000eOa; Mon, 22 Apr 96 21:07 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Date: 22 Apr 96 23:35:46 EDT Message-ID: <960423033545_70544.3642_JHD75-1@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Where you able to print out the large designs? If so What service did >you use? Did they need to convert your work into a vector format? Well, no ... I couldn't print them out on my desktop; I'm limited to 11x17 at the moment (but am hoping for a 12x18 color printer later this month). In the case of the large drawing, it was vectored and driven to 8x10 tranny, then photo-enlarged to the final size. The point I was making was that I had to develop it at final size on my desktop, because I had to position full-scale 9x12 color scans in place (several book covers were scanned and had to be represented that way). All in all, it was a 14 Mb file ... and this was before IOMEGA zip drives were available, so I had to drop it onto a laptop and send it over to NJ the company's VP. Nowadays (what, 6 months later?), I'd just zip it onto a 3.5 floppy and overnight it! If you want the name of the service, I can dig it up at work tomorrow. Kinda pricey, though; if I remember, the big color print came to about $1200. Obviously, not a good basis for creating patterns to cut glass from, but I was talking about the flexiblity of Corel Draw size-wise, not its expense. Fun to work with? Sure, but it's work for me ... bread and butter on the table, but it's still fun. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 02:59:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBelA-0000tga; Tue, 23 Apr 96 02:51 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!glaslady From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re: large computer designs Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 05:52:12 -0400 Message-ID: <199604230952.FAA12454@mailserver1.tiac.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I too use corel - then take the floppy to work and have someone in engineering print on their plotter. can do design up to 6 ft wide and indefinite length. without a plotter, I'd be limiter, altho could print many quadrants and them paste together. having to pay for professional printing gets really expensive Judy in Northern MA glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 04:33:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBgDu-0000gla; Tue, 23 Apr 96 04:25 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: re: large computer desig Date: 23 Apr 96 07:22:34 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr23.112234.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I too use corel - then take the floppy to work and have someone in >engineering print on their plotter. can do design up to 6 ft wide and >indefinite length. But it's not CorelDraw that's limiting you, right? Isn't it the plotter? I'm just guessing that the widest material the plotter will handle is 6' and that it comes off a roll, so that the length is "unlimited." (I put that in quotes because obviously a roll would have a limited length, even if it's 300'. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 05:52:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBhZY-0000wba; Tue, 23 Apr 96 05:52 PDT X-Path: highlander.cbnet.ns.ca!jcunning From: jcunning@highlander.cbnet.ns.ca (Joanie Cunningham) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Door Transom Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 09:55:44 +0400 Message-ID: <199604230555.JAA28330@highlander> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>I agree. The only way to properly do work of this sort is through >removal af the panel from the sash. Once the panel is out it is >important to determine why the panel bowed in the first place. It is >not uncommon for a panel to be installed to large for it's surround. >All architectural elements expand and contract due to a variety of >causes. they do this dance at different rates depending on the >material. therefore proper installation of an art glass panel calls for >an allowance to be made for this movement. If such an allowance is not >made the panel will move other dirrections. I think that you should clarify this movement so that reinforcement can be used properly in counteracting the movement. The expansion and contraction of metals and glass is extreemly small (this is the metallurgist in me talking now), might as well forget about it. But, lead cannot support its own weight let alone the weight of the glass. So it undergoes what is called creeping - slow relaxation and stretching. Any window will sag, but just from its own weight. I would suggest one rebar installed along the verticle length of the window, attached every foot or so with wire, which will aid in the support in the weight of the window. One other thing that causes a window to bow happens when it is installed next to an existing window and then the window is then framed or sealed in. This creates an air tight space. When light hits the window, or more importantly the lead work, it heats the lead which in turn heats the air. The air expands and the window bows. At night, the air cools and shrinks and pulls the window in. I would say that this can be more damaging. The solution is to leave venting. This will also allow any moisture to escape. Sounds pretty basic, I know, but I have still seen windows with this done. Joanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 08:35:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBk5w-0000yBa; Tue, 23 Apr 96 08:33 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: lead Date: Tue Apr 23 08:33:29 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr23.082728-0700pdt.267737-267+389@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have perhaps a silly question for you Albert or Michael or actually anyone else that has a lot more experience. I have done some research and can not find anything which tells me or gives me some idea of what size lead to use for different applications. I know the idea is to get your glass cutting to such precision that it can fit into the smallest came possible. But, would you suggest perhaps larger came (the cap being larger ie, 1/4" ) for movable glass ? And the smaller came for windows ? I also wanted to mention that here in Canada we have available copper strips for re-inforcing, this fits inside RH9 came when stretched. I found the RH8 does not hold it properly, as some sections of the lead (the heart) was every so slightly smaller than in other areas. We also have reforced lead, which if lead came that has been reinforced by putting a brass strip in the heart of the channel. It comes in various sizes. We also have extra strength cames. And on flux, there is a manufacturer here that makes non toxic flux. You can brush it on your lead and patina over it. It will not eat thru your work. I've been using it for years and it is a great product. Less smoke & spitting too. Thanks for all the discussion on re-inforcing. Ya just don't get the same type of interaction out of books, or for some reason there seems to be important information left out. Thanks guys. Karin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 08:54:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBkNy-0000mRa; Tue, 23 Apr 96 08:52 PDT X-Path: monmouth.com!clambert From: C Lambert To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Computer what!?! Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 11:45:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr23.74557.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB310A.911C3700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello... I am fairly new at this computer tag thing everyone seems to = be utilizing here. Where can I find more information on Corel Draw? = Any one know if I could get to see a demonstration of its use?(I am in = New Jersey) Also I would like to find out the address for = International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Thanks in advance for your help! CRZKT ---------- From: Albert Lewis[SMTP:70544.3642@CompuServe.COM] Sent: Sunday, April 21, 1996 5:55 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Computer what!?! >The (fairly) final take seems to be that Corel Draw is the=20 >easiest to use; you can lay down the shapes, change their colors,=20 >make global changes of line weights (so the heart is accounted for, = if=20 >you're using lead), etc. >The only problem of course is the size restrictions that corell places=20 >on your designs.=20 What sort of restrictions do you mean? Size? Hmm. I've designed for = 2"=20 square layouts ... and 6'x 9', although I haven't tried anything larger. Of course, I'm just guessing that you mean larger than that. There's no = limit that I can see ... I just click on "Custom" for layout size and = enter=20 whatever I want. (Running CorelDraw 4.0 at 133MHz with 64Mb RAM) __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB310A.911C3700 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjYPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD0AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AU01UUABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAAAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4A ATABAAAAEgAAACdnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAVAAAAU01UUDpHTEFTU0BCVU5H SS5DT00AAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAN8KwEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5N aWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAVAAAAUkU6IENvbXB1dGVyIHdoYXQhPyEAlQYBBYAD AA4AAADMBwQAFwALAC0AOQACAGEBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcEABcACwAqACIAAgBHAQEJgAEAIQAAADg4 QzQ4QUI2RjI5Q0NGMTFBREY0NDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwABgHAQOQBgDcBgAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAm AAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AMBH4vYrMbsBHgBwAAEAAAAVAAAAUkU6IENvbXB1dGVy IHdoYXQhPyEAAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbsxK/a5torEiZzyEc+t9ERFU1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABYAAABjbGFtYmVydEBtb25tb3V0aC5jb20AAAADAAYQ3FzU5QMA BxBzBAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASEVMTE9JQU1GQUlSTFlORVdBVFRISVNDT01QVVRFUlRBR1RISU5H RVZFUllPTkVTRUVNU1RPQkVVVElMSVpJTkdIRVJFV0hFUkVDQU5JRklORE1PUkVJTkZPUk1BVElP Tk9OQwAAAAACAQkQAQAAAF0FAABZBQAAnQkAAExaRnVMarLZ/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBj aArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqB DbELYGBuZzEwMxRQCwNseGkzNg3wC1UUUQvyY6EAQCBIZWwVoC4boAAgIEkgYW0gZkELcHJseSBu B9FhKQVAdGgEACAFoG1w7nUT0AXAAZBnHRIZEBvQlGV2BJB5AiBlIBGwwxPgBCB0byBiHyAdsKkD EGl6HmJoBJBlG8G8IFcgoh1gA5Eb8GYLgLxkIARgIVELgAIQcgDAeyAQAiAgIxEIUBYQAyBEkHJh dz8b0EFuHJDxHwJrbm8H4AaQG+EFoPR1bCIQZxHAH5IfQRwA7iANsARgAIB0I+Ai9CUglGl0BCB1 EbA/KBvzmwuAB7NKBJARsHkpJCFsbHMfsBvhdyVzGdBrPx8gH6Eh4whgHQImUWRkvxYQBBEioQrh GksTUG8T0H5jBUAb4AIwBJEi4wdAINxHdQMQKxElIEcLYAQRJwcQIBATwHMsLeFjLpMKjxp8IFQR gG5rBCDrKIErsHYAcGMfICwyHvAjCHAgkWxwITCVQ1I4WktUMJUwmxnQMTiCMALRaS0xNDQN8KcM 0DczC1kxNi1XLTlXrzCXOAsMMC1mRgNhOjpeny1mDIIpcR/QACAgTAfQAQQAW1NNVFA6NxQwNTdA LhnwNDJADwhQHZEGYR7ALkNPTX5dOf87DQZgAjA8Pz1LU9J1IgBheTAwQRNQAxEEMjEwMDE5OTYg xDU6GFAgUE1A3zsNLFRvQx89S2cvckBicUUAZ2kuHXFG30HudZxiai2hSP89S1JlTjCLP+MdwncR gHQhPzSGbzXNGf8tWBvQPjKQHyAo/xxEKVAh4S6hAZAqgR9KHSB/HPEjeCJwH4ErgTCVVFJl3y+A CJATwB+SJ+E7M+Ihc7sLYByQZCTgA6ArcnMRgL5wB5AwMBFxGRBWsmUcYH8dYRWhMCFYSQDAKoFK 0G9+Yi6hW8QEICdxUpAfEXfpXFBnaCexKCmhK3IgoP8KwAVAHUEA0CVhLgEiECKh7zAwJRFYSTPx JyFRJ+AeYvJsWPBkKTAwEcAwdzCV/1SDAiAcgS1hAmAT4CdiJWF3EaFXxgCQeh8gK+Em8Gn/LbAj AVfiHPEFoRthZdALYH8zgAQgZNYjETPzDbAAkGf/AIAbwFFcMJUhIBzxKaA+UX8ncWfLWrBZ4weA AHAkEVOjZ4EkEUhtbRvCJx7AF2q1YYRFwCI1tnNxdf8KwB8gWnErMQQgG6IAcCIQwDYneCA5JzAw B0A/HSAIYF+wG+ERgB7AbidvHQEIgSIQAHB5HkQLYHK1JcByMIZPZnYwMSccIPZqJ+AFQGcKUAQQ HmJW0/9udnW1VsJa4hzwG8FUkRYQ3icEICTQNbZSkG0noFbEvyVBA5EmMhuiG/B3k2NSkORjayMy IkN3oQNwcSD/LDJyJGdkcuJC4R3RMJVQ4s8esinSAHB6QihSRQADAK8ecSNzV4M/cDAc4jEZUHhN SHop8CegdBA/oE2xT/FBTSlRXIW+X4bPP4ffiFWFX4nEPhqJykV49wWQIAFwEUQcYC2hBbCJb/+N 1C3/Lw8wHYXPkv+UD4j86zCVOblGBbFzTdAE9CMC/16FMDALUFjxHyAAwAMRH6D7TjBK0y0WEHHA WTFLL0jQ/x8xIgEfoStyUpATwDAwkeP/mM9K7zDCBxARcIyxYPEzUB8DEAGgY7Ac4l/AdHA6qC8v d6FwLks3L55Dv2tfUf9TDy2iMJUVMQCmwAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwYCfSfSsxuwFA AAgwYCfSfSsxuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAABIg ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB310A.911C3700-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 12:41:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBnvH-00013Ga; Tue, 23 Apr 96 12:38 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Door Transom Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 20:36:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199604231942.UAA14907@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I hesitated to comment on this one, because the "real" answer felt too cruel (if that is the right word). However, Albert Lewis has said exactly what I had in mind to say , except my refences would have been UK ones. It has also been my own working experience. In this instance, you either save the glass OR the frame. I know what I would chose... Good luck! Let us know how you fared. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 14:49:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBpwZ-0001CIa; Tue, 23 Apr 96 14:48 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Door Transom Date: 23 Apr 96 17:46:31 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr23.214631.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >you either save the glass OR the frame. I know what I would >chose... Good luck! Let us know how you fared. Can't *both be saved? I suspect that careful attention will tease the frame apart, allowing it to be stripped and primed while the glass is relaxing, then re-used. As I remember, the remark was that it was in good shape. Why waste it? __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 14:50:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBpwc-0000Oda; Tue, 23 Apr 96 14:48 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Computer what!?! Date: 23 Apr 96 17:46:26 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr23.214626.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Hello... I am fairly new at this computer tag thing everyone seems to = >be utilizing here. Where can I find more information on Corel Draw? = >Any one know if I could get to see a demonstration of its use?(I am in = >New Jersey) Also I would like to find out the address for = >International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Dear C, Everyone's new, so don't be shy. I've only been on this newsgroup for the past week or so, although I'm a TechSupp in the Glass section on CompuServe and have been for the past couple of years ... no, three years, I guess. Corel holds workshop sessions around the country all the time. I'll see what I can dig up for you, informationwise. The Guild's address? No problem. Bear in mind (if you call) that you're going to reach an answering machine; non-profit groups don't pay the bills, so I'll be elsewhere during the day, natch. But we will respond quickly to any questions or requests for information by snail mail. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Tonetta Lake Road *** Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 14:50:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBpwj-0000iqa; Tue, 23 Apr 96 14:48 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: lead Date: 23 Apr 96 17:46:23 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr23.214623.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I have perhaps a silly question for you Albert or Michael or actually >anyone else that has a lot more experience. I have done some research and >can not find anything which tells me or gives me some idea of what size >lead to use for different applications. There are no silly questions, Karin. You won't find anything on size, because there are too many variables. "Too narrow," and it won't support the weight of what it's been assigned; "too wide," and it looks gross. On the other hand, I've seen European artists (and quite a few American imitators of same) use wide and narrow leads to very handsome effect ... but for *graphic reasons, not because part of the window required the extra support. >I know the idea is to get your glass cutting to such precision that it >can fit into the smallest came possible. But, would you suggest perhaps >larger came (the cap being larger ie, 1/4" ) for movable glass ? And the >smaller came for windows ? It's impossible for me to generalize broadly enough to be able to answer the question; perhaps someone else will be more daring. Short of that, why don't you make an outing next weekend and visit, say, a dozen churches to examine the widths of the leads used. If you're lucky enough to have some American opalescent windows by La Farge and Tiffany, et al., you'll see some remarkable differences in widths, mostly due to the layering effects they were after. Traditionalists wouldn't be using the copper-wire-reinforced came (not that there's anything inherently *wrong with it ... it's just *new! and they can't stand that). Same thing with cutters; no carbide-tipped, oil-pumped new- fangled gizmos for that crowd. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 15:00:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBq7x-0000uLa; Tue, 23 Apr 96 15:00 PDT X-Path: internexus.net!lwaldeck From: Lew Waldeck To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Came bender Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 17:58:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr23.105822.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Speak For Yourself Precedence: bulk I need to bend some zinc came in a semicircle 36" in diameter. I have seen various came benders in catalogs that claim to facillitate this. Does anyone have experience with these? How do they work? What brands? I have seen the thread about hardening glass paint in the oven. Could someone comment on the relative merits of these paints as opposed to kiln fired paints ? Thank you for your help. Mary Wakdeck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 15:19:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBqQL-0000w6a; Tue, 23 Apr 96 15:19 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: jhendershott@macnet.com (Janie Hendershott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:12:04 -0700 Message-ID: <199604232212.PAA12463@jack.macnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Corel holds workshop sessions around the country all the time. I'll see what >I can dig up for you, informationwise. > I have seen, but I don't remember the URL a user group and a corporate site for Corel. I sure if you search the internet, you will find it. There are a lot of users, and a lot of discussions about using the software. They should be able to answer some questions and tell us how to do some of the more complex things with Corel. Janie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 18:11:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBt6F-00011Ra; Tue, 23 Apr 96 18:10 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Date: 23 Apr 96 21:07:02 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr24.172.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I have seen, but I don't remember the URL a user group and a corporate >site for Corel. It's http://www.corel.com on the Web. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 18:17:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBtBS-00018Aa; Tue, 23 Apr 96 18:15 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Side Panel Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 18:16:56 -0700 Message-ID: <199604240116.SAA16126@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > >Went along on a tour of four Manhattan churches, led by Julie Sloan for the >Cooper-Hewitt last Sunday. A certain very-well-known studio restored windows >in one of the churches a few years ago; they apparently found it easier to >leave the plates off plated windows in most cases, to cut 1/2"-1" of >original glass off and throw it away (and where they'd cut too much, to >merely fill in the spaces with dark putty!), to leave out fillets that had >been in the windows no doubt because it wasn't cost-effective to take the >time and spend the labor doing the work right ... in short, to do the windows >more harm than good and still have the gall to call it "restoration." >Aaarragh! What were originally rich colors with mysterious overlays and >gorgeous intonations are now glaringly bright and thin. Betcha they sold the >church on how "clean" the windows had become, thanks to their "restoration," >and I'll also lay odds on how much original Tiffany glass they ended up >with. Tons. (Well... a few hundred pounds, anyway.) > It is unfortunate, but not that unusual for churches to be taken in on such "restorations". The shame of it is that usually the church needs to restore the windows again in the very near future. And often times the undoing of the previous "restoration" only add to the difficulty and expense of the work. It sounds like the studio that did the "job" on the windows you saw also altered the windows in fundamental ways thus not even allowing for future proper restoration. The lesson to draw from this is let the buyer beware as Howard mentioned as regards "Tiffany lamps" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 18:33:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBtR9-0000qUa; Tue, 23 Apr 96 18:32 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Door Transom Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 18:28:27 -0700 Message-ID: <199604240128.SAA19345@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >I think that you should clarify this movement so that reinforcement can be >used properly in counteracting the movement. The expansion and contraction >of metals and glass is extreemly small (this is the metallurgist in me >talking now), might as well forget about it. But, lead cannot support its >own weight let alone the weight of the glass. So it undergoes what is >called creeping - slow relaxation and stretching. Any window will sag, but >just from its own weight. I would suggest one rebar installed along the >verticle length of the window, attached every foot or so with wire, which >will aid in the support in the weight of the window. > >One other thing that causes a window to bow happens when it is installed >next to an existing window and then the window is then framed or sealed in. >This creates an air tight space. When light hits the window, or more >importantly the lead work, it heats the lead which in turn heats the air. >The air expands and the window bows. At night, the air cools and shrinks >and pulls the window in. I would say that this can be more damaging. The >solution is to leave venting. This will also allow any moisture to escape. >Sounds pretty basic, I know, but I have still seen windows with this done. > >Joanie > > >The expansion and contraction is not limited to the window (lead & glass) but the frame surround also moves. I have seen many windows installed at full size allowing for no movement. You are correct in stating the importance of proper venting. But I would suggest the use of horizontal rebars placed at intervals appropriate for the size and design of the window with the rebars notched into the frame moldings or otherwise independently anchored into the frame to take the weight of the window and distibute it to the frame. This metod in effect creates virtual panels of smaller size than the true size of the panel. > >---- > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 18:38:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBtVv-0000mva; Tue, 23 Apr 96 18:37 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re: large computer designs Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 18:34:57 -0700 Message-ID: <199604240134.SAA14600@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >I too use corel - then take the floppy to work and have someone in >engineering print on their plotter. can do design up to 6 ft wide and >indefinite length. > >without a plotter, I'd be limiter, altho could print many quadrants and them >paste together. having to pay for professional printing gets really expensive Does the plotter you use have a driver for correl or is a conversion progam required? MS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 18:42:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBtZe-000105a; Tue, 23 Apr 96 18:40 PDT X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: lead Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 21:40:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr23.174041.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Karin, What is the name of the flux that you are using? I'd be interested in seeing if I could find some to try. My glass shop is in my basement and I'm always interested in a product that smokes less. Janet IMN2GLASS@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 18:44:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBtbm-0000sFa; Tue, 23 Apr 96 18:43 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Came bender Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 18:40:18 -0700 Message-ID: <199604240140.SAA13912@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > >I have seen the thread about hardening glass paint in the oven. Could >someone comment on the relative merits of these paints as opposed to kiln >fired paints ? > >The main merit is that you dont need a kiln. ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 18:53:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBtk8-0000gha; Tue, 23 Apr 96 18:51 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Door Transom Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 18:52:45 -0700 Message-ID: <199604240152.SAA18071@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > >you either save the glass OR the frame. I know what I would > >chose... Good luck! Let us know how you fared. > >Can't *both be saved? I suspect that careful attention will tease the frame >apart, allowing it to be stripped and primed while the glass is relaxing, >then re-used. As I remember, the remark was that it was in good shape. Why >waste it? > There should be no reason that with care both can be saved. It would be unusual but not unheard of, for the frame to be assembled in such a way that it could not be disassembled without destroying it. Just look closely at the joints or look to make sure that no molding exsist. I have seen some frames that have moldings installed and finished so skillfully that it looks as if there are no moldings. Often varnish coats can cover seams quite thoroughly thus fooling even the most seasoned pro. Try sliping your glazing knife blade where a molding seam should be. good luck ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 19:03:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBtt9-00018ba; Tue, 23 Apr 96 19:01 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: lead Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 18:57:30 -0700 Message-ID: <199604240157.SAA18302@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > > >There are no silly questions, Karin. You won't find anything on size, >because there are too many variables. "Too narrow," and it won't support the >weight of what it's been assigned; "too wide," and it looks gross. > >On the other hand, I've seen European artists (and quite a few American >imitators of same) use wide and narrow leads to very handsome effect .. but >for *graphic reasons, not because part of the window required the extra >support. > > >I know the idea is to get your glass cutting to such precision that it > >can fit into the smallest came possible. But, would you suggest perhaps > >larger came (the cap being larger ie, 1/4" ) for movable glass ? And the > >smaller came for windows ? > >It's impossible for me to generalize broadly enough to be able to answer the >question; perhaps someone else will be more daring. Short of that, why don't >you make an outing next weekend and visit, say, a dozen churches to examine >the widths of the leads used. If you're lucky enough to have some American >opalescent windows by La Farge and Tiffany, et al., you'll see some >remarkable differences in widths, mostly due to the layering effects they >were after. > > >Albert is correct on all counts. Think of the lead lines as the lines in a pen and ink drawing. The various lead weights are used to control the amount and flow of light. This use is very personal thus has no rules except those that are meant to be broken. As far as structure goes design and glazing methods and techiques have much more of an impact on the strenght and longevity of the work than the width of the leads. Care should be used when using alloy mixes as they can be stiffer ( seems like a good idea) and more prone to breaking due to metal fatigue. > __________________________________________ > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 23 20:12:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uBuwl-0001Bya; Tue, 23 Apr 96 20:08 PDT X-Path: compuserve.com!104444.3177 From: ALLEN GREEN <104444.3177@compuserve.com> To: anyone Subject: does any know... Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 22:40:23 -0400 Message-ID: <199604232240_MC1-2F2-2C1@compuserve.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk does anyone know of other places to advertise the next IGGA meeting in Chicago? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 24 03:44:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uC22Q-0000jFa; Wed, 24 Apr 96 03:43 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: re: large computer desig Date: 24 Apr 96 06:42:05 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr24.10425.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Does the plotter you use have a driver for correl or is a conversion >progam required? Corel will print-to-disk using *any printer driver (those are usually DLL or PRD files) unique to the printer you plan to use. All you have to do is find out if the printer (or plotter) that will be used has its own unique driver or whether a generic driver will suffice. Then you install the driver on your computer and select it at the moment you're going to print-to-disk. What results is a file on your disk that can be copied to a floppy ... or sent by modem ... for outputting on the actual selected printer. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 24 04:07:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uC2OD-0000g4a; Wed, 24 Apr 96 04:05 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Computer what!?! Date: 24 Apr 96 07:04:05 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr24.1145.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Where can I find more information on Corel Draw? = >Any one know if I could get to see a demonstration of its use? I'm sorry, but I wasn't able to turn up a list of upcoming Corel workshops ... only this, which is taking place as we speak. I'd suggest that you contact Rick Altman (phones, etc., below) by email to see if he can give you a list. ----------------------------------------------------- SUMMIT96: The Annual Conference for Ventura Users and Electronic Publishers April 22-26, 1996 San Jose, CA SAN JOSE, CA -- The seventh annual conference for Ventura users, Summit96, is scheduled for the week of April 22-26, 1996, at the Red Lion Hotel in San Jose, CA, and this year's event will reflect the many sweeping changes that are crossing the electronic publishing landscape. As in the six previous years, the Summit will offer high-quality seminars and presentations across three full days, with specific tracks for users of different interests and levels of experience. Hosted by Rick Altman, the Summit will feature the most notable authors and publishing specialists, including Daniel Will-Harris, Carol Lovelady, Foster Coburn, Byron Canfield, and David Satz. As always, the Summit Help Center will be open all day for free drop-in technical support. Furthermore, the 1996 event will take on a greatly expanded role from previous years--similar to a mini-Seybold conference just for Corel users. With two days of optional seminars and workshops, registrants can pick and choose the topics they want to learn about, enroute to building their own personal conference. Among the highlights during that week: CORELDRAW SEMINARS Rick Altman's eight-city West Coast seminar series makes a stop at the Summit on April 22-23. The complete agenda for this highly-acclaimed two-day seminar is available at www.altman.com. Registration for these seminars is $279 alone, or just $175 if added to the main conference. CRASH COURSES For the most comprehensive overviews on today's hot publishing topics, these $99 half-day seminars are the perfect complement to the main event, or excellent appetizers all by themselves. At the Summit, you'll find courses on the following topics: - An Introduction to Ventura - In Step with Windows 95, Part I and II - Exploring the Internet - PhotoPaint WOW, Part I and II - A First Look at CorelXara The Crash Courses take place on Monday and Tuesday, April 22-23, before the main event on Wednesday. CONTACT INFORMATION You can reach host Rick Altman the following ways: PHONE: 408-252-5448 FAX: 408-252-5451 EMAIL: rick@altman.com or CIS 72341,1714 You can receive an immediate brochure on the Summit by calling the Conference fax hotline at 408-252-5586, or by visiting www.altman.com. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 24 04:29:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uC2kZ-0000uHa; Wed, 24 Apr 96 04:28 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Came bender Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 07:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199604241128.HAA09266@brutus.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 05:58 PM 4/23/96 -0700, you wrote: >I need to bend some zinc came in a semicircle 36" in diameter. I have seen >various came benders in catalogs that claim to facillitate this. Does anyone >have experience with these? How do they work? What brands? > >I have seen the thread about hardening glass paint in the oven. Could >someone comment on the relative merits of these paints as opposed to kiln >fired paints ? > I don't have a lot of experience with came benders, but I did pick one up for a repair on a small church window last fall. It worked GREAT! I got a Cascade came bender from Franklin Art Glass (1-800-848-7683). The came bender has three wheels. You feed the came in between the wheels. It has an adjustment mechanism which determines how far apart the wheels are which determines the amount of curve it gives the came. You turn the wheels with a handle, going from not very curved, then adjust a little more, turn the handles, adjust a little closer until you get the proper curve. I used it on 1/2" zinc, and as I said before it was wonderful. Again, I don't have much experience with painted versus fired paints, but it seems to me for craft type projects the Deka works very well. The fired on paints of course require a kiln, and some trial and error until you build up your skills. The advantage is that they are actually fused to the glass after firing, and provide the best means of getting a permanency to your piece. I would use this on a bigger project that would be worth repairing in the future if something happened to it. But for suncatcher eyes and limited detail, the Deka is much handier and will not rub off unless you scrape it with a razor blade (which I do sometimes to get clean lines). Deka comes in transparent or an opaque black. But I do not find it readily available. Hope this helps! Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 24 05:26:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uC3cV-0000o8a; Wed, 24 Apr 96 05:24 PDT X-Path: YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu!UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Deka paints Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 08:22:49 EDT Message-ID: <960424.082413.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<199604241128.HAA09266@brutus.bright.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have not seen Deka glass paints in glass stores. I have seen them in art stores. (I believe Deka makes several kinds of paints, so read your labels!) -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 24 05:32:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uC3he-0000gla; Wed, 24 Apr 96 05:29 PDT X-Path: YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu!UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Computer what!?! Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 08:25:59 EDT Message-ID: <960424.082933.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1996Apr24.1145.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk If you want to design some smallish geometric things, just try messing around with the Paint program that comes with Windows. You can get some interesting effects. Also, my husband has taken coursework on AutoCad and he says there is an easy to use AutoCad Light (which I have to learn), that he's used a little for design work. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 24 09:54:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uC7nq-00014Aa; Wed, 24 Apr 96 09:52 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!glaslady From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re:plotter & drivers Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 12:54:28 -0400 Message-ID: <199604241654.MAA06421@mailserver1.tiac.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk the driver is actually on the pc i use at work to print - came with the plotter - so it's really transparent. I do a miniprint from my HP deskjet in color at home - if I like it, I schlep it to work with some baked goods (quid pro quo) for the guy to whom the plotter 'belongs' - he noshes while he prints for me & we're all happy campers. Judy in Northern MA Glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 24 20:57:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCI9Q-0001Hqa; Wed, 24 Apr 96 20:55 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: IGGA in Chgo Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 23:55:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr24.195517.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I didn't know IGGA was IN Chicago!!! I'd be happy to put the info out on AOL, Prodigy and MSN bulletin boards. Please provide us with the info. Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 24 21:24:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCIZT-0000rla; Wed, 24 Apr 96 21:22 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: flux Date: Wed Apr 24 21:22:18 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr24.211638-0700pdt.267959-22249+896@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Janet You wrote: >What is the name of the flux that you are using? I'd be interested in seeing >if I could find some to try. My glass shop is in my basement and I'm always >interested in a product that smokes less. > >The name of the flux is " Flux 2000 " Universal Self-Cleaning Soldering Flux. It is acid and leadfree. I'm not sure if it is available outside of Canada. from what I understand & I could be wrong, that it is made here. It is certainly more costly than regular flux, but it can be left on your project until your ready to patina, & you can patina over it, and any residue can be removed with water. It certainly last a lot longer than regular flux. In five years I've used 2 small sample bottles & I then purchased a large 340 ml.which I'm still working on. Comes with it's own brush which is attached to the cap. I could never go back to using regular flux. Actually on the bottom of the bottle it stamped B.V. Chemische Fabriek, Schiedam, Holland. Karin >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 24 22:20:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCJPo-0000xHa; Wed, 24 Apr 96 22:16 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Lead Date: Wed Apr 24 22:16:18 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr24.221049-0700pdt.268078-12867+47@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thank you both Albert & Michael on your info. Up here in Canada we have a National Building Code which requires that all exterior doors and sidelites are made with safety glass front and back & the decorative glass is sealed between. These are compeletly sealed units and after the discussion on repairs to a transom it makes sense that all our exterior doors are made with brass instead of lead. I had wanted to do something different, as this type of door is becoming almost generic here, I'm there for looking for alternatives. Bevels & gc can be nice, but they all look the same after awhile no matter how their assembled. Perhaps I should re-design my patterns to accomodate brass, except that brass doesn't have the flexability and you most certainly loose the antique look. The doors that I've made are solid enough, but because of my profession I suppose I'm more paranoid or careful, but I would rather have some over kill on reinforceing and materials used than end up in litegation. Again thanks for the info, I thought I was missing something or not looking in the right place. Karin. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 02:10:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCN2t-0000rla; Thu, 25 Apr 96 02:09 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@Bungi.com Subject: Re: Sconces Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 05:08:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199604250908.FAA17159@brutus.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 10:18 PM 4/20/96 -0700, you wrote: >Iam interested in stained glass sconces{ tiffany style}. Can you Help? > Thanks Scott The only sconces I have seen are the Bradley Kits and they are more like panel lamps than rounded tiffany lamps. Inland is supposed to be coming out with sconces since they sent me some free patterns to give out that go with their product, but I haven't seen them yet at my wholesaler. I probably will see more of this at the convention in July. Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 03:02:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCNqi-0000RQa; Thu, 25 Apr 96 03:00 PDT X-Path: spdc.ti.com!mack From: mack@spdc.ti.com (Caren Mack) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Painted window now etched? Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:58:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <9604250958.AA23057@epcot.spdc.ti.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi folks, I have just finished two 17" octegon windows which are the replacement for two that had the painted on stained glass. I "thought" I was going to be able to scrap the old faded and peeling off paint with a razer blade, but now have discovered thats not the case! Theres a white shadow were the paint was and I'm afraid it may have actually etched into the glass. I treid a 000 steel wool to try to take it off which wasn't hurting the actual glass, but it didn't work. Is there a glass polish or chemical I might try which is my last possible resort? I was really hoping to use the exsisting glass as a cover to protect the new stained glass windows. I may have to completly build a new window frame if I can't get this exsisting window cleaned off. Also, with all the talk about transon windows, I was going to put my new windows up against the exsisting glass, then seal it into place using a silicon sealer. Would this cause a problem with saging, heat/cold build up as mentioned in previous messages? The window is copper foil and the edge is H channel came. Thanks! Caren mack@spdc.ti.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 03:28:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCOEZ-00017ea; Thu, 25 Apr 96 03:25 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Lead Date: 25 Apr 96 06:22:53 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr25.102253.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Karin, Gee, if you are forced by the Code to sandwich your leaded work between two pieces of safety glass, I don't think you have any reinforcement concerns at all! Assuming that all of the glass, safety and stained, is behind or between the interior and exterior moldings, it's not going anywhere and nobody's going to walk *through it. I think you can eliminate the sometimes intrusive lines of additional reinforcement from your design considerations altogether! __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 03:28:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCOEa-0000uEa; Thu, 25 Apr 96 03:25 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: IGGA in Chgo Date: 25 Apr 96 06:22:49 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr25.102249.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I didn't know IGGA was IN Chicago!!! >I'd be happy to put the info out on AOL, Prodigy and MSN bulletin boards. >Please provide us with the info. Barbara Allen Green of Oak Park is organizing a local chapter of the Guild in the Chicago environs, Barbara. That's the news that he's trying to get out ... that he's planning a get-together of all interested glass artists, hobbyists, craftspeople, afficianados, etc. The time and date of Allen's planned meeting I'm not sure of ... you should contact him directly at Allen Green 104444.3177@compuserve.com Let There Be Light 743 N. Lombard Avenue Oak Park IL 60302 Phone: 708 386 3298 but if you're interested (and for your convenience and easy capture and re-release on other bulletin boards, on AOL, Prodigy and MSN, here's the online version(ette) of the printed materials the Guild sends out: ------------------------------------------------------ International Guild of Glass Artists ==================================== an international nonprofit association of artists, artisans and craftspeople who work with glass as a crafts and art medium. From the Chairman of the Guild: =============================== There is an almost instinctive solidarity among those of us who work with glass. As we individually pursue our artistic expressions in this unique and fascinating medium, we share a great kinship with those who have preceded us in the magnificent legacy that is glass art work. However, glass remains a solitary pursuit for many of us. As autonomous as we are in the greater glass community, as individuals we are seldom able to give voice to our enthusiasm about glass, and to share our experiences with it. As passionate as we are about our work, we seldom find much emotional support for our devotion to this compelling medium. The IGGA has accomplished much in the past three years to bring glass artists and enthusiasts together from many diverse backgrounds for the purpose of fabricating new bridges to allow glass artists to discover our "common ground." We have come together to give voice to our mutual concerns, to work together to support each other in our visions, and to share ourselves with fellow artists and enthusiasts. We have a great deal to be excited about and look forward to furthering our existing programs, as well as developing new ones. Your input, energy, and enthusiasm will help us to realize those goals, and strengthen the greater glass community. We hope to hear from you soon and to welcome you as a member of the International Guild of Glass Artists! Gerry Phibbs Chairman Send us your address -- that's your post office mailing address -- and we'll send you information about membership at the following levels: Student/Hobbyist $ 25/year -- 32- to 72-page "newsletter" Individual Artist 45/year -- newsletter, referrals service and discounts on supplies! Partner Artists 55/year -- all of the above for husband/wife (etc.): two full memberships, but only one copy of the newsletter Studio Corporate 150/year -- five full memberships, with five newsletters to the same address! We'll also send you information about setting up local chapters of the International Guild, Local ChapterGrants to help get those local chapters running, and more information about the Guild's many other programs and services. _____________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Tonetta Lake Road *** Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _____________________________________________ An IRS 501(c)(6) Not-for-Profit Organization ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 04:49:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCPWa-0000sBa; Thu, 25 Apr 96 04:47 PDT X-Path: server.northernnet.com!hensley From: Mike & Jodi Hensley To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Sheep Patterms Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 06:48:51 -0500 Message-ID: <199604251148.GAA15830@server.northernnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Karin, Tnak you very much. I received the sheep patterns yesterday. I think I can incorporate them into another pattern that I have. I will keep you posted. Jodi ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 14:31:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCYaS-00019Ka; Thu, 25 Apr 96 14:28 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Painted window now etche Date: 25 Apr 96 17:27:30 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr25.212730.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Theres a white shadow were the paint was and I'm afraid it may have >actually etched into the glass. I treid a 000 steel wool to try to take >it off which wasn't hurting the actual glass, but it didn't work. >Is there a glass polish or chemical I might try which is my last possible >resort? Caren, We like to think of glass as being kind of permanent, difficult to damage in some ways. But all one has to do is call to mind what wine will do to a glass tumbler over time and you'll realize that it's not that tough. I'd say the paint-on "stained glass" has indeed etched the glass you're trying to clean. Unfortunately, it's probably going to be both easier and cheaper to replace it. But you might try this advice first: Laquer thinner is a fairly potent solvent, but it's a blend of several things, mineral spirits, acetone, MEK, toluene, etc. You might have a bit better luck with something like straight acetone, or MEK, but be warned, both of these products are both extremely flammable, and also toxic both as vapors, fumes, and liquids. Gerry Phibbs, Chairman, IGGA >Also, with all the talk about transon windows, I was going to put my new >windows up against the exsisting glass, then seal it into place using a >silicon sealer. Would this cause a problem with saging, heat/cold build >up as mentioned in previous messages? The window is copper foil and the >edge is H channel came. Venting *any window is a good idea. Would you have space to neatly drill a 1/4" hole every 6" or so? (I'm guessing on the dimension, since you didn't say what the measurements are.) Could you avoid the use of the sealer? That would allow the window to "breath," even if you seal the outside, but not the interior panel (you're sandwiching it?) If none of these ideas are helpful, c'est la vie. I *did do a search of the archives for a better answer, but come back with more questions and I'll try to be more helpful. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 15:32:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCZYU-0000u7a; Thu, 25 Apr 96 15:30 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 15:35:01 -0700 Message-ID: <199604252235.PAA06175@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Thank you both Albert & Michael on your info. > >Up here in Canada we have a National Building Code which requires that all >exterior doors and sidelites are made with safety glass front and back & the >decorative glass is sealed between. These are compeletly sealed units and >after the discussion on repairs to a transom it makes sense that all our >exterior doors are made with brass instead of lead. I had wanted to do >something different, as this type of door is becoming almost generic here, >I'm there for looking for alternatives. Bevels & gc can be nice, but they >all look the same after awhile no matter how their assembled. Perhaps I >should re-design my patterns to accomodate brass, except that brass doesn't >have the flexability and you most certainly loose the antique look. >The doors that I've made are solid enough, but because of my profession I >suppose I'm more paranoid or careful, but I would rather have some over kill >on reinforceing and materials used than end up in litegation. Again thanks >for the info, I thought I was missing something or not looking in the right >place. >Karin. > Karin: You never mentioned that you were going to sandwich the window between two pieces of lami. That changes the picture considerably. Useing applied rebar on an encapsulated installation is difficult at best. Your solutions under these conditions will depend on the tye of pocket that you are dealing with. In any case try to anchor your art glass indepentently of the protective layer as a slipping piece of art glass between lami is a pain to say the least. ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 15:37:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCZdw-00010pa; Thu, 25 Apr 96 15:36 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 15:33:33 -0700 Message-ID: <199604252233.PAA02254@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Thank you both Albert & Michael on your info. > >Up here in Canada we have a National Building Code which requires that all >exterior doors and sidelites are made with safety glass front and back & the >decorative glass is sealed between. These are compeletly sealed units and >after the discussion on repairs to a transom it makes sense that all our >exterior doors are made with brass instead of lead. I had wanted to do >something different, as this type of door is becoming almost generic here, >I'm there for looking for alternatives. > >---- >Sorry for the duplication . One thought is trying high heart lead and designing and fabricating using lami Which does come in several different colors and textures. Check your local commercial glass distibutor for details. This will likely cost more as cutting lami especialy to organic patter is a challenge, but what is life with out an ocasional hurdle? ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 15:45:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCZlY-0000E3a; Thu, 25 Apr 96 15:44 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Painted window now etched? Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 15:41:56 -0700 Message-ID: <199604252241.PAA28679@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Hi folks, > > I may have to completly build a new window frame if >I can't get this exsisting window cleaned off. Why not just replace the glass? > > Also, with all the talk about transon windows, I was going to put my new >windows up against the exsisting glass, then seal it into place using a silicon >sealer. Would this cause a problem with saging, heat/cold build up as mentioned >in previous messages? The window is copper foil and the edge is H channel came. > > If the piece is large enough for re-bars use these and notch them into your molding. If you are not using molding turn the bars and anchor them into the frame. Use a setting tape to seperate the exterior glass from the at glass (preferably the breathable kind) and be sure to vent by leaving gaps in your sealant. Make sure to leave enough room all around the art glass for expansion and contraction (dependent on space and surround sizes. ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 18:33:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCcNz-0000osa; Thu, 25 Apr 96 18:31 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!100354.1531 From: Michael Read <100354.1531@CompuServe.COM> To: BUNGI Subject: LIST Date: 25 Apr 96 21:27:20 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr26.12720.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Subscribe Glass 100354.1531@Compuserve.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 18:44:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCcYn-00019Ga; Thu, 25 Apr 96 18:43 PDT X-Path: nz1.netzone.com!lorley From: "Lorley L. Oneyear" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Phx Suns Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 18:50:03 -0600 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960426005003.006774f4@mail.netzone.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Well Phx area has already hit it's first 100 degree day of many and I have a question about foil. Six months ago I moved my stained glass workshop into the corner of my 2 car garage. So far working in the garage has been a pleasure since I've been able to expand my work area. But I am now worried about the effect of heat on some of my stained glass supplies, ie foil. A friend of mine once foiled a small wall sconce where the foil fell off before he had the soldering finished. He contributed it to the fact that he stored his foil out in a hot room off his garage. Should I store the foil inside the house? Any other supplies that I should be careful of? Thanks .. and send a cool breeze down my way please. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 19:29:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCdG1-0000Roa; Thu, 25 Apr 96 19:27 PDT X-Path: idirect.com!mrum From: mrum@idirect.com (mike & carol) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Phx Suns Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 22:26:56 -0400 Message-ID: <199604260226.WAA20330@lucid.idirect.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Well Phx area has already hit it's first 100 degree day of many and I have a >question about foil. Six months ago I moved my stained glass workshop into >the corner of my 2 car garage. So far working in the garage has been a >pleasure since I've been able to expand my work area. But I am now worried >about the effect of heat on some of my stained glass supplies, ie foil. A >friend of mine once foiled a small wall sconce where the foil fell off >before he had the soldering finished. He contributed it to the fact that he >stored his foil out in a hot room off his garage. Should I store the foil >inside the house? Any other supplies that I should be careful of? Thanks >.. and send a cool breeze down my way please. Hi, this is Carol Well aren't you the lucky one! Its only 40 degrees here in rainy, blustery Toronto. IMHO, the temperature of the iron and solder are much greater than conditions in your workshop and there might be other reasons why your friend's foil fell off. If the iron is on the solder for too long, the solder gets so hot that the adhesive 'melts' and can ooze out from under the copper foil. A roundabout way of saying no, I don't think your foil needs to be stored in the house. ******************************************* Mike and Carol Rumak Mississauga, Ontario Canada Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at: http://web.idirect.com/~studio ******************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 20:53:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCeZU-0000p9a; Thu, 25 Apr 96 20:51 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!glaslite From: glaslite@ix.netcom.com (Fred Sorg ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Phx Suns Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:50:36 -0700 Message-ID: <199604260350.UAA29167@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Laurie, I too work out of a corner in my garage...in sunny, humid, south Florida!!!! I keep my foil, masking tape & any tools (like pliers,etc), in the air conditioned house. Note, even though I clean my tools, in south Florida, with the hunidity & the heat, I still bring them inside. Also, if I am working on more than 1 project at a time (which I usually do), I keep all foiled glass inside until I'm ready to solder-then leave it out in the garage for about an hour to let the glass reach the garages "room" temperature - then solder. Hope this helps, Happy glassing, Fred ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 21:04:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCeja-00016Na; Thu, 25 Apr 96 21:02 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Phx Suns Date: Thu Apr 25 21:02:14 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr25.205459-0700pdt.268066-12868+633@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: >Well Phx area has already hit it's first 100 degree day of many and I have a >question about foil. Six months ago I moved my stained glass workshop into >the corner of my 2 car garage. So far working in the garage has been a >pleasure since I've been able to expand my work area. But I am now worried >about the effect of heat on some of my stained glass supplies, ie foil. A >friend of mine once foiled a small wall sconce where the foil fell off >before he had the soldering finished. He contributed it to the fact that he >stored his foil out in a hot room off his garage. Should I store the foil >inside the house? Any other supplies that I should be careful of? Thanks >.. and send a cool breeze down my way please. > >Enough of this hot weather stuff. How about we trade you some of your sun shine for some of our rain. At last weather report on the weekend we had 153cm of rain for the month of April. No darn wonder we all have webbed feet & look like ducks up here. Anyway, enough of the ---- , I had the same problem with my copper foil only is cool & damp here. Now I keep it at in a large zip lock baggie in my house where the temperature stays relatively the same, with less moisture. I also found that some brands were better than others. Almost like the manufacturer of that particular brand didn't apply enough adhesive. It would be fine for several feet of foil & then there seemed to be bare spots. I'm guessing, but I would think that the adhesive is applied to the foil by machine, and if the machine is not set properly or the guy (operator) falls asleep out of boredom & doesn't notice we're going to get ugly foil. Perhaps you & I have had some of the same brand ! Karin >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 21:21:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCez4-0000sWa; Thu, 25 Apr 96 21:18 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Phx Suns Date: Thu Apr 25 21:18:13 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr25.211235-0700pdt.268051-12885+680@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Hi Carol this is Karin: >You wrote: > >Well aren't you the lucky one! Its only 40 degrees here in rainy, blustery >Toronto. >IMHO, the temperature of the iron and solder are much greater than >conditions in your workshop >and there might be other reasons why your friend's foil fell off. If the >iron is on the solder >for too long, the solder gets so hot that the adhesive 'melts' and can ooze >out from under >the copper foil. > Sorry I got there first & traded some of "our rain" for some of that PH sunshine. Although, it's been worse for you this winter. >A roundabout way of saying no, I don't think your foil needs to be stored in >the house. My foil was falling off before I got to the other side of my glass. I was also careful to clean my pieces and drying them before I would foil, as a process of elimination. I also in my very early days made a lamp, foiled & soldered it, & the whole thing melted away like an ice cream. Darn good thing it wasn't a large lamp, but I still felt like hucking it out my patio door (not that that would have solved anything), but I would have felt good. I think that was a flux problem, not cleaning it off properly. >******************************************* >Mike and Carol Rumak >Mississauga, Ontario >Canada > >Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at: >http://web.idirect.com/~studio >******************************************* > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 21:30:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCf9a-0000vGa; Thu, 25 Apr 96 21:29 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep Patterms Date: Thu Apr 25 21:29:03 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr25.212321-0700pdt.268089-12882+741@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Hi Jodi, > >Tnak you very much. I received the sheep patterns yesterday. I think I can >incorporate them into another pattern that I have. I will keep you posted. > >Actually that didn't take at all. I found them in X-mas books. I enlarged the picture with 3 sheep & it looked pretty good. If I find any more I'll send them along. But I'll let you know before hand because I just had a quick look over my desk & guess what, can't find your address. Put it one a piece of paper & someone else in this house came along and also used my note.(gremlins) >Karin >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 22:17:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCfpr-00011Va; Thu, 25 Apr 96 22:12 PDT X-Path: sprynet.com!glassy From: glassy@sprynet.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Phx Suns Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 22:13:18 -0700 Message-ID: <199604260513.WAA16666@m2.sprynet.com> References: <<2.2.32.19960426005003.006774f4@mail.netzone.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Debby here. Not only sun, but does cold or freezing effect foil too? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 22:18:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCfr2-0000yKa; Thu, 25 Apr 96 22:14 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead Date: Thu Apr 25 22:13:53 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr25.220758-0700pdt.268004-12864+796@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >You wrote: >> >>>You never mentioned that you were going to sandwich the window between >two pieces of lami. That changes the picture considerably. Useing >applied rebar on an encapsulated installation is difficult at best. >Your solutions under these conditions will depend on the tye of pocket >that you are dealing with. In any case try to anchor your art glass >indepentently of the protective layer as a slipping piece of art glass >between lami is a pain to say the least. > >Sorry Michael, perhaps I was thinking & writing at a different level. Old age you know, and I take full advantage of using that as an excuse. > The pieces I made are for interior use only, because of our national building code. My concern was having the glass pop out of the came, due to movement. And I was thinking that perhaps I should be using came with a larger cap for safety reason. Which of course would to some extent take away from the design, especially if some of the pieces are smaller. Then I was thinking of having them put into sealed units for exterior use until I read the discussion on the transom. Which finally dawned on me why every one up here is using these generic bevel & brass exterior doors and sidelites which are in sealed units. So I was inquiring if there was an alternative or something else that I could do or use to adapt my patterns to accommodate sealing. Don't get me wrong I love bevels & brass, but their all the same & now that every house on the block has it, its not pretty anymore. I will certainly inquire with the distributor on the lami. I may have to draw on your expertise again when I get it, if you don't mind. I'm sorry but I have to comment, the older homes were built so much better before the national building code came in. Now they make what I call recyclable homes because they won't last 25 years, but our doors & windows will still be standing. Karin >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 22:19:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCfrQ-0000zAa; Thu, 25 Apr 96 22:14 PDT X-Path: sprynet.com!glassy From: glassy@sprynet.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Phx Suns Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 22:14:58 -0700 Message-ID: <199604260514.WAA16881@m2.sprynet.com> References: <<2.2.32.19960426005003.006774f4@mail.netzone.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Debby here. Not only sun and heat, but does cold and freezing effect foil? I'm here in Idaho and we've had a cold winter. My workshop is not heated unless I'm in it working! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 22:36:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCgBY-0000jpa; Thu, 25 Apr 96 22:35 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead Date: Thu Apr 25 22:35:12 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr25.222939-0700pdt.268051-12873+712@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Albert, Thank you for your information. As I said before I'd rather be safe & ask a silly questions than be sorry later. >>Karin > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 22:40:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCgEK-0000pza; Thu, 25 Apr 96 22:38 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead Date: Thu Apr 25 22:37:59 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr25.223211-0700pdt.268113-12856+779@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>You wrote: >>> >>>>You never mentioned that you were going to sandwich the window between >>two pieces of lami. That changes the picture considerably. Useing >>applied rebar on an encapsulated installation is difficult at best. >>Your solutions under these conditions will depend on the tye of pocket >>that you are dealing with. In any case try to anchor your art glass >>indepentently of the protective layer as a slipping piece of art glass >>between lami is a pain to say the least. >> >>Sorry Michael, perhaps I was thinking & writing at a different level. Old >age you know, and I take full advantage of using that as an excuse. >> >The pieces I made are for interior use only, because of our national >building code. My concern was having the glass pop out of the came, due to >movement. And I was thinking that perhaps I should be using came with a >larger cap for safety reason. Which of course would to some extent take away >from the design, especially if some of the pieces are smaller. Then I was >thinking of having them put into sealed units for exterior use until I read >the discussion on the transom. Which finally dawned on me why every one up >here is using these generic bevel & brass exterior doors and sidelites which >are in sealed units. So I was inquiring if there was an alternative or >something else that I could do or use to adapt my patterns to accommodate >sealing. Don't get me wrong I love bevels & brass, but their all the same & >now that every house on the block has it, its not pretty anymore. >I will certainly inquire with the distributor on the lami. I may have to >draw on your expertise again when I get it, if you don't mind. > >I'm sorry but I have to comment, the older homes were built so much better >before the national building code came in. Now they make what I call >recyclable homes because they won't last 25 years, but our doors & windows >will still be standing. >Karin > >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 22:41:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCgFd-0000yra; Thu, 25 Apr 96 22:39 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep Patterms Date: Thu Apr 25 22:39:23 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr25.223348-0700pdt.267814-12873+714@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>Hi Jodi, >> You wrote >>Tnak you very much. I received the sheep patterns yesterday. I think I can >>incorporate them into another pattern that I have. I will keep you posted. >> >>Actually that didn't take at all. I found them in X-mas books. I enlarged >the picture with 3 sheep & it looked pretty good. If I find any more I'll >send them along. But I'll let you know before hand because I just had a >quick look over my desk & guess what, can't find your address. Put it one a >piece of paper & someone else in this house came along and also used my >note.(gremlins) >>Karin >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 25 22:42:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCgGg-00017Ia; Thu, 25 Apr 96 22:40 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Phx Suns Date: Thu Apr 25 22:40:32 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr25.223450-0700pdt.267895-12867+790@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>Hi Carol this is Karin: > >>You wrote: >> >>Well aren't you the lucky one! Its only 40 degrees here in rainy, blustery >>Toronto. >>IMHO, the temperature of the iron and solder are much greater than >>conditions in your workshop >>and there might be other reasons why your friend's foil fell off. If the >>iron is on the solder >>for too long, the solder gets so hot that the adhesive 'melts' and can ooze >>out from under >>the copper foil. >> Sorry I got there first & traded some of "our rain" for some of that PH >sunshine. Although, it's been worse for you this winter. > >>A roundabout way of saying no, I don't think your foil needs to be stored in >>the house. > >My foil was falling off before I got to the other side of my glass. I was >also careful to clean my pieces and drying them before I would foil, as a >process of elimination. I also in my very early days made a lamp, foiled & >soldered it, & the whole thing melted away like an ice cream. Darn good >thing it wasn't a large lamp, but I still felt like hucking it out my patio >door (not that that would have solved anything), but I would have felt good. >I think that was a flux problem, not cleaning it off properly. >>******************************************* >>Mike and Carol Rumak >>Mississauga, Ontario >>Canada >> >>Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at: >>http://web.idirect.com/~studio >>******************************************* >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 03:22:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCkd0-00015ya; Fri, 26 Apr 96 03:19 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Phx Suns Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 06:19:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199604261019.GAA29495@brutus.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Should I store the foil >>inside the house? Any other supplies that I should be careful of? Thanks >>.. and send a cool breeze down my way please. >A roundabout way of saying no, I don't think your foil needs to be stored in >the house. This is only my own personal experience, and indeed maybe we should get the definitive answer from the manufacturer, but I have had loads of trouble with foil I have stored on my sunporch. It is enclosed, but has twelve windows, and is on the 2nd story with no ventilation. It may have been the light, though, because after I started storing my unused rolls in a closed box, I had better results. I usually try to get the freshest foil possible and rotate my stock. And I have never had very good results with silver backed foil, no matter how fresh it is. I always knew I had a problem, because it would occur even before I started soldering, when I was actually foiling the piece. Now, I don't store any foil up there except the roll I am using, and it usually gets used up before I have a problem. Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 04:39:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uClny-0000nta; Fri, 26 Apr 96 04:35 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Lead Date: 26 Apr 96 07:32:11 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr26.113211.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Thank you for your information. As I said before I'd rather be safe & ask >a silly questions than be sorry later. Don't worry about it, Karin. I've been known to give silly answers, too, but I think even a silly answer is better than none at all, not that that's a problem here. There are some pretty sharp people taking part in these discussions ... ain't technology swell? __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 04:39:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uClny-0000eOa; Fri, 26 Apr 96 04:35 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Lead Date: 26 Apr 96 07:32:09 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr26.11329.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk PMFJI, but wouldn't *glass be better as the slices of bread in the sandwich than "lami." By that, I take you to mean laminated plastic ... or are you talking laminated glass? If the latter, ignore this post. Certainly the plastic would be safe, although it'd scratch up pretty easily over time. >recyclable homes because they won't last 25 years, but our doors & windows >will still be standing. ROFL! __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 04:39:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uClny-0000tBa; Fri, 26 Apr 96 04:35 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Phx Suns Date: 26 Apr 96 07:31:56 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr26.113156.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Well Phx area has already hit it's first 100 degree day of many and I >have a question about foil. Ah. From the header I thought this was going to be a *sports commentary. How well I remember the Arizona heat, having spent a couple of years in Winslow as one of the last uniformed brakemen on the El Cap and Super Chief between Needles CA and Albuquerque NM. But it was familiar to me, the heat, since I grew up in the southern San Juaquin Valley of California, where 110 degree summers were the norm. I'd say the heat's affecting the adhesive on the foil. The traditional method of cutting strips of foil from thin sheet copper and affixing it to the pieces of glass with beeswax wouldn't work, either, for the same reason. You could keep the foil in the refrigerator, I guess, but then you'd have to periodically stick you work in there, too. Might as well move right in and set up your studio in the reefer, as well, I guess ... an answer that's more silly than helpful, I'm afraid. Why not put off the foil work to the late fall and winter, doing something else during the hot months? If you switch to leaded work during the summer, you could at least avoid this particular problem. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 04:53:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCm1n-00017Fa; Fri, 26 Apr 96 04:49 PDT X-Path: spdc.ti.com!mack From: mack@spdc.ti.com (Caren Mack) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Painted window now etched? Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 06:47:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <9604261147.AA11585@epcot.spdc.ti.com> References: <<199604252241.PAA28679@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > You wrote: > > > >Hi folks, > > > > I may have to completly build a new window frame if > >I can't get this exsisting window cleaned off. > > > Why not just replace the glass? Because of the way the window is constructed. I build, fix and construct everything I want and have so I have the knowledge, skill and knack (or talant) and tools, and believe me, this is put together so you can't get the glass out of the metal frame without a fight, which will probably break the glass. But, I haven't tore it apart yet, and might be surprised. I was just trying to avoid this hastle and use the windows I already have in place. Things don't always work out the easy way unfortunatly. Thanks, Caren ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 04:57:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCm68-00016Ma; Fri, 26 Apr 96 04:54 PDT X-Path: spdc.ti.com!mack From: mack@spdc.ti.com (Caren Mack) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Painted window now etche Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 06:52:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <9604261152.AA11701@epcot.spdc.ti.com> References: <<1996Apr25.212730.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >Theres a white shadow were the paint was and I'm afraid it may have > >actually etched into the glass. I > > > Caren, > > I'd say the paint-on "stained glass" has indeed etched the glass you're > trying to clean. Unfortunately, it's probably going to be both easier and > cheaper to replace it. But you might try this advice first: > > Laquer thinner is a fairly potent solvent, but it's a blend of > liquids. > Albert Lewis Executive Director > International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Thanks Albert, I will give this a try before trying to tier the window apart. Caren ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 05:26:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCmYp-0000eHa; Fri, 26 Apr 96 05:23 PDT X-Path: westol.com!davidbdr From: David Baldinger To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Phx Suns Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 08:25:16 -0400 Message-ID: <199604261223.IAA24329@oak.westol.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>and there might be other reasons why your friend's foil fell off. Greetings everyone. This is my first attempt at posting to the list. I have found that if the glass pieces aren't clean and free of skin oils or grinder residue, the foil will fall off as fast as it can be applied. I usually wash every piece with window cleaner and dry with paper towels before foiling and try not to handle much while foiling. This works rather well when trying to foil glass globs. David >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 07:02:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCo12-0000M9a; Fri, 26 Apr 96 06:56 PDT X-Path: monmouth.com!clambert From: C Lambert To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:51:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr26.55124.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello everyone! Thanks for the helpful information about Corel...Visited their website = neat place. Now onto my question. I live in central New Jersey and = have been "doing" glass for about three years. The place I learned = never did anything but foil work and now I would like to learn more = about "caming?" I dont even know if that is the right word... I need a = really basic book or someone in the fifty mile radius that would give = lessons. Thanks in advance and I hope the warm sunny spring weather I = am having here filters out for all of you:) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 07:24:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCoO5-00018ca; Fri, 26 Apr 96 07:20 PDT X-Path: crown.net!butch From: ASK Systems/BUTCH STIDAM To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: No more E-Mail Please Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:18:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr26.2181.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Could you quit sending me E-Mail, I have been gettig bombarded by = E-Mail from many people from your site. I cannot keep up with all of it. = Please send a reply message of confirmation. Thank you.=20 butch@crown.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 08:16:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCpDR-0000s6a; Fri, 26 Apr 96 08:13 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: glass info Date: Fri Apr 26 08:13:35 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr26.080658-0700pdt.268106-12873+874@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks to all this new electronic equipment, I have learned more about stained glass than I did in the past 5 years trying to learn it all by trial & error. It also gets very costly that way. Thanks to the server for providing us all the opportunity participate in these discussions. Karin. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 10:31:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCrKm-00016Na; Fri, 26 Apr 96 10:29 PDT X-Path: anuxc.mv.att.com!bacci From: Louis.H.Barchey@att.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: mirrors and silvering Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 13:27:27 EDT Message-ID: <9604261727.AA17764@anuxc.mv.att.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk New kid on the block would like to know information on working with mirror glass as well as re-silvering. I did stop off and picked the solutions form the web site ~mickey and thanks. But what to do with it? Can other solutions be used ?? Gold, bronze or colors tints to be baked on the glass then the whole thing silvered???? Many years ago when the earth was green. I rember reading about shadding stained glass and then putting them in the oven/kiln, is this still a pratice. My ultimate goal is to get a picture, a view, done in a mirror/stained glass. Someting like reverse painting then silver the whole thing and possibally add shading too. As I said I am new at this.....I have been recently working in other mediums. thanks in advance all answers welcome Lou ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 11:47:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCsWq-0000hga; Fri, 26 Apr 96 11:46 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: Janie Hendershott To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: Re: CHAT - non-glass email Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 11:48:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr26.4486.0> References: <<199604261514.IAA09828@chimera.us.oracle.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Can everyone help these kids out. Please respond to: smc@tiac.net Thanks, Janie ============================== > > Hi, our names are Stevie and Amanda. We are in the 5th grade at the > Phillipston Memorial school, Phillipston, Massachusetts, USA. We are > doing a science project on the Internet. We want to see how many > responses we can get back in two weeks. (We are only sending out 2 > letters). > > Please respond and then send this letter to anyone you communicate > with on the Internet. Respond to smc@tiac.net. > > 1. Where do you live (state and country)? > 2. From whom did you get this letter? > > Thank you, > > Stevie and Amanda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 12:17:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCszy-0001AGa; Fri, 26 Apr 96 12:16 PDT X-Path: monmouth.com!clambert From: C Lambert To: "'Pat Lambert'" , Subject: FW: CHAT - non-glass email Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:07:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr26.11750.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk hey send the kids some email will ya? CRZKT ---------- From: Janie Hendershott[SMTP:jhendershott@macnet.com] Sent: Friday, April 26, 1996 2:48 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: CHAT - non-glass email Can everyone help these kids out. Please respond to: smc@tiac.net Thanks, Janie ============================== > > Hi, our names are Stevie and Amanda. We are in the 5th grade at the > Phillipston Memorial school, Phillipston, Massachusetts, USA. We are > doing a science project on the Internet. We want to see how many > responses we can get back in two weeks. (We are only sending out 2 > letters). > > Please respond and then send this letter to anyone you communicate > with on the Internet. Respond to smc@tiac.net. > > 1. Where do you live (state and country)? > 2. From whom did you get this letter? > > Thank you, > > Stevie and Amanda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 13:13:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCtsh-0000w6a; Fri, 26 Apr 96 13:12 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:12:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr26.121234.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello: I haven't been "doing" stained glass very long myself. I too was interested in learning leading techniques. My vendor suggested a book by Valarie Hixson "Learning Leaded Glass." I really enjoyed the book. It seems to be very through in the basics. It has two patterns included. I built the hot-air balloon panel. I think it turned out well for my first attempt. In my opinion, leaded work is more difficult than the "Tiffany" method. The precision needed for a good fit is critical. You don't have the opportunity to "fix" a mistake as easily as with foil. Also, I really didn't care for all of the mess associated with "weather-proofing" the panel when completed. All and all, I prefer foil to came any day. I think that you will enjoy the book if you can find it. Hopefully, you will have a different opinion of Lead work than I. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 13:21:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCtzW-0000zqa; Fri, 26 Apr 96 13:19 PDT X-Path: intran.xerox.com!liz From: liz@intran.xerox.com (Liz Lynch) To: glass@bungi.com, plambert@monmouth.com Subject: Re: Non-Glass Email Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:23:14 PDT Message-ID: <9604262023.AA03417@moose.intran.xerox.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The Email address provided for "Stevie & Amanda" (smc@tiac.net) is not valid. Thus another urban legend is born. On a more positive note I'll take this opportunity to say 'hi' to everyone in the glass group. This has been very interesting reading. Liz. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 14:05:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCugD-0000qpa; Fri, 26 Apr 96 14:03 PDT X-Path: YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu!UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Phx Suns Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 09:14:31 EDT Message-ID: <960426.091918.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<199604261223.IAA24329@oak.westol.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I find that in the summmer (Hot and humid around here) that bringing my work into an air conditioned room works best. (Of course, that might be because I am more comfortable!) (re: foiling) I too have had dreadful luck with silver backed foil and have just decided not to use it again. If I want silver lines with mirror or colorless glass, I'll use black backed foil. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 14:23:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCuxF-0000jga; Fri, 26 Apr 96 14:21 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!aaaz From: Andy Zimmerman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: E mail user group Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:29:29 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Apr26.82929.0> References: <<96Apr23.082728-0700pdt.267737-267+389@aphex.direct.ca>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Boston Children's Hospital Precedence: bulk Please unsubsribe me from your user group Thank You ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 14:34:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCv8q-0001ARa; Fri, 26 Apr 96 14:33 PDT X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu (Kathe R. McDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: FW: CHAT - non-glass email Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 14:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199604262133.OAA19476@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I tried. It bounced. Kathe R. McDonald Office of Curricular Support "Aint no time to hate." J. Garcia 1995 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 15:07:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCveR-00013fa; Fri, 26 Apr 96 15:06 PDT X-Path: YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu!UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: CHAT - non-glass email Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 15:49:54 EDT Message-ID: <960426.155227.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1996Apr26.4486.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You know, this is the kind of thing that crashes sites and clogs mail boxes for MONTHS! Years, even. If there is no specific range of dates given for a reply, I wouldn't answer. It's kind of people to want to help, but... On my way for foil. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 18:37:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCytv-0000V6a; Fri, 26 Apr 96 18:34 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Learning Lead Caming Date: 26 Apr 96 21:30:30 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr27.13030.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Thanks for the helpful information about Corel...Visited their website = >neat place. Now onto my question. I live in central New Jersey and = >have been "doing" glass for about three years. The place I learned = >never did anything but foil work and now I would like to learn more = >about "caming?" I dont even know if that is the right word... I need a = >really basic book or someone in the fifty mile radius that would give = >lessons. Thanks in advance and I hope the warm sunny spring weather I = >am having here filters out for all of you:) Glad you liked the Corel site ... I haven't looked at it myself; too busy all day long *using Corel Draw to take time off to see what I hear is a pretty neat site. Oh, well. Two really good books about working with lead came are Peter Mollica's "Stained Glass Primer," available almost everywhere, and Patrick Reyntiens' "The Technique of Stained Glass, which is more difficult to find, I think. Both of those can be ordered through the IGGA's Guild Library (blatant self-promotion here) but also through nearly any retailer or wholesaler, but also through: The Book Exchange, 90 West Market Street, Corning NY 14830. Phone: (607) 936-8536. Fax: (607) 936-2465. As for places to learn the lead came technique, give Si Isenberg (oh! he has a book out, too! I don't know if his touches on caming, though) a call; he should be able to point you to programs and workshops near you. He can be reached at: Glass Craft Festival, 696 Palisade Avenue, Teaneck NJ 07666. Phone: (201) 836-8940. Fax: (201) 836-4107. Other that what Si can suggest, these are the New Jersey schools we show as having glass programs. Do they teaching came techniques? I don't honestly know, but you could give them a call and ask. Markeim Art Center, Lincoln Avenue and Walnut Street, Haddonfield NJ 08033. Phone: (609) 429-8585. Salem Community College, 460 Hollywood Avenue, Carneys Point NJ 08069-2799. Phone: (609) 299-2100. Fax: (609) 351-2634. [Admissions Office fax: (609) 299-9193]. If you do talk to any of these people, would you mention that you heard about them from IGGA via this newsgroup? We don't want money ... we just want to get credit for what we do ... which is to help out however we can. Hope this helps, __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 18:37:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCytr-0001C5a; Fri, 26 Apr 96 18:34 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: glass info Date: 26 Apr 96 21:30:35 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr27.13035.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Thanks to all this new electronic equipment, I have learned more about >stained glass than I did in the past 5 years trying to learn it all by >trial & error. It also gets very costly that way. That's the way people are, isn't it? First a message from someone who's getting "too much" information, then yours expressing your joy at *getting more information! >Thanks to the server for providing us all the opportunity participate in >these discussions. Yes, indeed! Unsung heroes they are, since they never make an appearance here (do they?). Let's have a big round of applause for all the work (and surely all the *expense!) of keeping a true service to the glass world like this going. Hip! Hip! .... __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 18:37:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCytr-000107a; Fri, 26 Apr 96 18:34 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Non-Glass Email Date: 26 Apr 96 21:30:48 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr27.13048.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >The Email address provided for "Stevie & Amanda" (smc@tiac.net) is not >valid. Thus another urban legend is born. Hi, yerself, Liz. Thanks for the tip on the email address. I was halfway through answering and taking part in it when I realized that if the note was to be forwarded to everyone I correspond with in email I'd be contributing in a major way to the proliferation of "junk email" that's going around. Gosh, I *love kids, too, and want to help them where/whenever I can, but I finally just couldn't bring myself to send out several hundred email msgs just to help out two kids who can't have any *idea! what their small request can lead to. I wondered about the address, anyway, since it ended with a period. That's supposed to be the end of the sentence, I guess, but it won't work that way, I suspect. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 19:03:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCzK1-00014Xa; Fri, 26 Apr 96 19:01 PDT X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass info Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 22:00:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr26.18055.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk HOORAY!! For the server. I've been n2 glass for 1 1/2 years and I can't tell you all how much I look forward to reading all the wonderful ideas you all have. It is truly inspiring!!! I'm thinking of designing a Golden Retriever in glass. Where do I start? I've done quite a few designs of my own, but mostly still life type things. What do I do with something which can be so expressive? It almost seems like starting from pictures is too hard, I think starting with drawings may be better. Any designers out there that can give me tips? Maybe I just need to sit down and start drawing and trust my instincts. What do you think? TYIA, Janet IMN2GLASS@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 19:31:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uCzlX-00017ja; Fri, 26 Apr 96 19:29 PDT X-Path: aol.com!LegalSteph From: LegalSteph@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: non-glass message Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 22:29:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr26.182936.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, everyone. I've been subscribing to this server for a couple of weeks and really enjoy reading all the messages (yes, there can be a LOT, but I also learn a lot!). This is my first time adding a message, though, and it's about that non-glass message that was forwarded yesterday or today. Someone also forwarded that message around at my office last week, and it showed at that time that the 19th was the last day that messages should be sent for the school project. That's probably why the address is no longer valid, must've been set up just for that project. Just thought I'd let everyone know what I'd seen, FYI. Thanks to everyone for sharing their expertise - it really helps beginners like me!!! Steph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 26 21:04:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uD1B9-0000Rua; Fri, 26 Apr 96 21:00 PDT X-Path: gr.cns.net!Pristine From: Pristine To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: mirrors and silvering Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:01:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Apr27.1710.0> References: <<9604261727.AA17764@anuxc.mv.att.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Pristine Glass Co. Precedence: bulk > New kid on the block would like to know information on working with > mirror glass as well as re-silvering. I did stop off and picked the > solutions form the web site ~mickey and thanks. But what to do with it? > > Can other solutions be used ?? Gold, bronze or colors tints to be baked > on the glass then the whole thing silvered???? I have more recipes and information slowly going up at my site. Please bear with me. YES, I found formulas for gold. I will also post instructions. ISO: the supplier for silvering supplies is Peacock Laboratories. anyone got an address??? > > Many years ago when the earth was green. I rember reading about shadding > stained glass and then putting them in the oven/kiln, is this still a > pratice. Yes it is. There are variations to the method and materials. Some painters derive the color from the glass and use black paint almost exclusively. This is typical of most traditional stained glass work. Another way is to use colored enamels applied to clear or nearly colorless glass.(sounds applicable to your needs.) > > My ultimate goal is to get a picture, a view, done in a mirror/stained > glass. Someting like reverse painting then silver the whole thing and > possibally add shading too. > Sound feasible to me. > As I said I am new at this.....I have been recently working in other > mediums. Welcome to our nightmare -- * mickey mackenzie for Pristine Glass Co. * pristine@gr.cns.net * http://www.cns.net/pristine also * mickey@grfn.org * http://www.grfn.org/~mickey ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 27 04:49:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uD8SH-0000RQa; Sat, 27 Apr 96 04:46 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: glass info Date: 27 Apr 96 07:44:07 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr27.11447.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I'm thinking of designing a Golden Retriever in glass. Where do I >start? Janet, Here's a supplier of PC and/or Mac disks that includes, among quite a few other items, "DOGS -- a varied collection of dogs." I don't think they sell direct to the customer, but they'd probably tell you the name and address of the nearest supplier where you *can get the disks. Then all you have to do is select the dog pattern you want (don't know if there's a retriever, but since that breed is one of the most popular in America -- *we have one -- I wouldn't be surprised if there *is) and pop it onto the screen. Then you can enlarge, change, fiddle with and do anything you want to make the pattern the way you *want it to be before you print it out. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ [SuppSupp] Hackney Designs, 300 Myrna Lane, Cave Junction OR 97523-9648. Phone: (541) 592-6752. E-mail: hackney@cdsnet.net Inexpensive stained glass pattern software: Hackney Designs is now shipping 17 different collections of stained glass patterns on 3.5" disks for IBM windows and Macintosh. Each disk contains 20 to 30 great patterns that can be manipulated utilizing your existing paint or drawing program. Each disk wholesales for $5.00 with a suggested retail price of only $10.99. Just some of the manipulations you can perform on these patterns are: print unlimited copies; size up or down to any size you wish; print on one 8-1/2"x 11" sheet of paper or print on multiple sheets for large patterns; flip vertical, horizontal, left or right (to reverse pattern or cut out pattern on back); add lines, circles, arcs & text; cut and paste (to combine different patterns together); add color and texture (to preview finished piece before you start cutting glass). You can use any paint or drawing program that recognizes the.BMP format for the IBM version or the bitmap/paint format for Macintosh, such as MS Paintbrush, MS Desktop Publishing, ASL Paint, Paintshop Pro, Image & Bits, Lview Pro, Leadview and many others. There is a README file on each disk with complete instructions, a list of all patterns on the disk, and manipulation capabilities on the outside of the package so it sells itself. They also can be hung on a peg hook so they do not take up much retail space. Titles available are: TROPICAL BIRDS -- macaws, cockatoos, toucans, cockatiels and lovebirds, etc.; WILD BIRDS -- eagles, ducks, hummingbirds, peacocks and penguins etc.; NITELIGHTS -- flowers, animals, angels, child- related, etc.; FLOWERS -- iris, roses, orchids, calla lilies, gardenias, tulips, pansies, poppies, etc; MARINE ANIMALS -- whales, seals, starfish, sharks, clownfish, dolphins, seahorses, swordfish, walrus, sea turtles, etc.; NAUTICAL SCENES -- sailboats, powerboats, lighthouses, mermaids, seashells, anchors, etc.; 2-D PROJECTS -- humming birds, hummingbirds w/flower standing, standing butterfly lady, standing angels, candle holders, pencil holders, business card holders, etc.; PANEL LAMP PATTERNS -- panel lamp patterns for 4 sides, 6 sides, and 8 sides with information on vase caps, harps, & lamp bases; WILDLIFE -- deer, tiger, lion, squirrel, bear, raccoon, skunk; FARM -- horses, pigs, cows, chickens, and farm- related scenes; CATS -- a varied collection of cats; DOGS -- a varied collection of dogs; SUNCATCHERS I -- animal suncatchers, including butterflies; SUNCATCHERS II -- flowers; SUNCATCHERS III -- misc., including rainbows, hearts, balloons, etc.; MYTHICAL -- dragons, wizards, castles, unicorns, Pegasus, angels; SCENIC -- mountain scenes, wine/cheese scenes, wine-related scenes, desert scenes, tree scenes, water scenes, etc. The initial minimum order is one of each category in each format (i.e., 17 IBM disks plus 17 Mac disks, totalling 34 disks for a total of $170, plus shipping; thereafter, $25 minimum. ------------------------------------------------------ Note: Any companies identified with [SuppSupp] before their names are Supporting Suppliers to the Guild, offering members discounts on tools, equipment and supplies of 5% to 50%. See page 19 of the 1996 Sources Guide or download IGGASUPP.TXT from Library 5, HANDCRAFTS forum on CompuServe for details. Prepared by Albert Lewis for the International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Copyright (c) 1996 International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. All rights reserved. May be freely copied for personal use and passed along to others for their personal use, but not republished in any form without express written permission from the International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 27 05:21:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uD8xJ-0000wda; Sat, 27 Apr 96 05:18 PDT X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass info Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 08:18:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr27.41820.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert, Thanks for the info. I always enjoy reading your replys. You are a fountain of information. :-) Janet PS > Aren't goldens great? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 27 08:19:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uDBkX-00012Pa; Sat, 27 Apr 96 08:17 PDT X-Path: tiac.net!glaslady From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: chain letter Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 11:19:59 -0400 Message-ID: <199604271519.LAA24355@mailserver1.tiac.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk an example of why most listservs ban chain letters - I've passed the message on to my inet server (tiac) to see if they can resolve the address issue.... Judy in Northern MA glaslady@tiac.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 27 17:24:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uDKGH-0000eha; Sat, 27 Apr 96 17:22 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Phx Suns Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 17:27:15 -0700 Message-ID: <199604280027.RAA13787@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Debby here. Not only sun, but does cold or freezing effect foil too? >---- >Of course it does. all extremes of temp are going to effect the adhesive on tape. dry to keep all in cool dry place ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 27 17:29:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uDKLh-0000Zta; Sat, 27 Apr 96 17:28 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 17:28:14 -0700 Message-ID: <199604280028.RAA07043@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > By that, I take you to mean laminated plastic ... or are you >talking laminated glass? If the latter, ignore this post. > I am talking about laminate glass. ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 27 17:32:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uDKO0-00017Va; Sat, 27 Apr 96 17:30 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Phx Suns Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 17:34:06 -0700 Message-ID: <199604280034.RAA14023@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > > >Well Phx area has already hit it's first 100 degree day of many and I > >have a question about foil. > >Ah. From the header I thought this was going to be a *sports commentary. >How well I remember the Arizona heat, having spent a couple of years in >Winslow as one of the last uniformed brakemen on the El Cap and Super Chief >between Needles CA and Albuquerque NM. But it was familiar to me, the heat, >since I grew up in the southern San Juaquin Valley of California, where 110 >degree summers were the norm. > >I'd say the heat's affecting the adhesive on the foil. The traditional >method of cutting strips of foil from thin sheet copper and affixing it to >the pieces of glass with beeswax wouldn't work, either, for the same reason. > >You could keep the foil in the refrigerator, I guess, but then you'd have to >periodically stick you work in there, too. Might as well move right in and >set up your studio in the reefer, as well, I guess ... an answer that's more >silly than helpful, I'm afraid. > >Why not put off the foil work to the late fall and winter, doing something >else during the hot months? If you switch to leaded work during the summer, >you could at least avoid this particular problem. > > could keep it in the basement or in the pantry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 27 17:36:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uDKSg-0000QLa; Sat, 27 Apr 96 17:35 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: mirrors and silvering Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 17:32:57 -0700 Message-ID: <199604280032.RAA04810@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >New kid on the block would like to know information on working with >mirror glass as well as re-silvering. I did stop off and picked the >solutions form the web site ~mickey and thanks. But what to do with it? > >Can other solutions be used ?? Gold, bronze or colors tints to be baked >on the glass then the whole thing silvered???? > >Many years ago when the earth was green. I rember reading about shadding >stained glass and then putting them in the oven/kiln, is this still a >pratice. > >My ultimate goal is to get a picture, a view, done in a mirror/stained >glass. Someting like reverse painting then silver the whole thing and >possibally add shading too. > >As I said I am new at this.....I have been recently working in other >mediums. > > sorry but post is hard to understand. What are you asking?? ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 28 04:35:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uDUjw-0000tBa; Sun, 28 Apr 96 04:34 PDT X-Path: mclink.it!mc8040 From: Paolo Corpetti To: glass@bungi.com Subject: stained glass course online free Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 13:26:44 +0200 Message-ID: <1996Apr28.152644.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Vetrarte di P.Corpetti Viale jonio 127- Roma Precedence: bulk We are glad to let you know that the first lesson of our course is on line.It's available in English too. The address is: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/2741/ see you soon Paolo:^) -- Paolo Corpetti Http://www.mclink.it/personal/MC8040 Http://www.geocities.com/Paris/2741/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 28 09:41:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uDZWa-0001CUa; Sun, 28 Apr 96 09:40 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 09:41:46 -0700 Message-ID: <199604281641.JAA00422@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >>You wrote: >>> > My concern was having the glass pop out of the came, due to >movement. And I was thinking that perhaps I should be using came with a >larger cap for safety reason. Which of course would to some extent take away >from the design, especially if some of the pieces are smaller. You should not have a problem with glass popping out of even the smallest came as long as your pieces are well cut, The came is sized properly, and the panel itself is sized to fit the opening ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 29 11:13:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uDxPn-0001F3a; Mon, 29 Apr 96 11:11 PDT X-Path: longwood.lwc.edu!scarter From: Shannon Carter To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 14:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk unsubcribe ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 29 13:54:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uDzwi-0000GVa; Mon, 29 Apr 96 13:53 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: jhendershott@macnet.com (Janie Hendershott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 13:46:19 -0700 Message-ID: <199604292046.NAA25265@jack.macnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Subscribe jhendershott@macnet.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 29 14:40:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uE0fM-0001Iia; Mon, 29 Apr 96 14:39 PDT X-Path: interserv.com!ebsousa From: ebsousa@interserv.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Tips Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 14:39:11 -0700 Message-ID: <199604292139.AA15810@relay.interserv.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi! Just a short note with a tip. I use a Toyo oil cutter which I like but I found the round shape of the barrel difficult to keep a good grip on. At an office supply store (Staples) I found this product called pencil pillows. These are spongey cylinders that slip over your pencil or pen to pad them for a more comfortable grip. I put one on my cutter and it gives me a better grip. They were only around $1.00 for a pack of 5. I also put one one my cheapo disposable cutter and found that it would stretch over the wide part of the handle. (grip wasn't a problem but this adds to the comfort. Donna S. Hickory Cottage Crafts ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 29 15:21:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uE1Hq-0001IKa; Mon, 29 Apr 96 15:19 PDT X-Path: snowfall.colorado.edu!marilyn From: Marilyn Kaminski To: glass@bungi.com Subject: sealers Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 16:19:09 MDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm making a piece for a customer that will have a paper label on a glass design of a wine bottle. She suggested that I *shellac* the piece to make sure the label sticks on. This made me cringe, but then I got to thinking ... would it work? Or is there something more suitable I could use instead? Or should I just suggest that she not pick at the edges of the label? Any suggestions appreciated! - marilyn -- ___________________________________________________________ * * /\ Marilyn Kaminski /\ * /\/ \ ECS System Engineering Liaison /\ / \/\/ \ @ /\ National Snow and Ice Data Center / \/* / \ \|/ *\ phone: (303)-492-1477 / @ \ / @ \ * \ @\ fax: (303)-492-2468 \|/ / \|/ \ \|/ email: marilyn@snowfall.colorado.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 29 16:37:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uE2Uv-0001BGa; Mon, 29 Apr 96 16:36 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: sealers Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 16:35:38 -0700 Message-ID: <199604292335.QAA09826@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >I'm making a piece for a customer that will have a paper label >on a glass design of a wine bottle. She suggested that I >*shellac* the piece to make sure the label sticks on. This >made me cringe, but then I got to thinking ... would it work? >Or is there something more suitable I could use instead? Or >should I just suggest that she not pick at the edges of the label? > >Actually shelacing or varnishing are accepted ways of sealing work on glass (non-fired) My father was a sign letterer and when doing signs on storefront glass, the sealer was always the finishing coat. ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 29 19:52:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uE5XO-0001DDa; Mon, 29 Apr 96 19:51 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Tips Date: Mon Apr 29 19:51:33 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr29.194552-0700pdt.267856-290+1369@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: >Hi! Just a short note with a tip. I use a Toyo oil cutter which I like but I >found the round shape of the barrel difficult to keep a good grip on. At an >office supply store (Staples) I found this product called pencil pillows. These >are spongey cylinders that slip over your pencil or pen to pad them for a more >comfortable grip. I put one on my cutter and it gives me a better grip. They >were only around $1.00 for a pack of 5. I also put one one my cheapo disposable >cutter and found that it would stretch over the wide part of the handle. (grip >wasn't a problem but this adds to the comfort. > >Donna, I've always used the pistol grip and I find that for female hands they seem to be more comfortable. I also had an injury to my index finger last year, (injected with paint from a paint sprayer) from the tip into the palm of my hand and because I now am unable to use that finger (hopefully only temporily) I am still able to use my pistol grip cutter, not as well as before, but I manage. Karin >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 29 20:17:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uE5uK-0001Gpa; Mon, 29 Apr 96 20:15 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead Date: Mon Apr 29 20:15:14 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr29.200930-0700pdt.267856-287+1419@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>>Michael: >>>>You wrote: > >You should not have a problem with glass popping out of even the >smallest came as long as your pieces are well cut, The came is sized >properly, and the panel itself is sized to fit the opening > In response to my concern with the lead popping out. I know now from first hand experience that the glass won't pop out. Took my very large piece out side to take a picture of my master piece. Leaned up against the fir tree, took a couple of shots. Moved it around the other side of the tree in order to capture the sun coming thru (we get so little of it) snaped the camera just in time to have a gust of wind blow it over onto my lawn. Yup, a couple of pieces broke, but it all stayed together. Hey, it was a good experience in doing repairs to a rather large piece. That's what I call learning the hard way, but then some of us just have to do that. Karin >> >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 29 21:17:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uE6r7-0001D5a; Mon, 29 Apr 96 21:16 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep pattern Date: Mon Apr 29 21:16:02 1996 Message-ID: <96Apr29.211000-0700pdt.28493-14747+73@orb.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Jodi, You wrote, > >Thank you so much. It would be nice if someone would draw some farm >animals. I looked through at least 25-30 different books and did not find >anything except a barn. Copyright protection seems to be a hot topic. You >have a fear of using any part of the pattern. > >Once again, thanks a lot for the sheep pattern. If you ever need anything, >just let me know. > >Did you get any other sheep patterns ? In response to "If you ever need anything, just let me know." Do you sell your wool to a manufacture of yarns. Just curious ! Have made "buffalo sweaters" years ago from unspun yarn. Anyhoo, I'll keep looking for more sheep patterns Karin >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 30 05:17:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uEELS-000105a; Tue, 30 Apr 96 05:15 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!ElsieTurqman From: Elsie Turqman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Golden Retriever Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 12:15:54 GMT Message-ID: <199604301215.MAA11436@mailhost.worldnet.att.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 02:00 AM 4/27/96 +0000, you wrote: >HOORAY!! For the server. I've been n2 glass for 1 1/2 years and I can't >tell you all how much I look forward to reading all the wonderful ideas you >all have. It is truly inspiring!!! I'm thinking of designing a Golden >Retriever in glass. Where do I start? You did't say if you just wanted to to a head or complete dog. If just the head try to find the design book "Dog'Gone" by Randy DeMello, Hixson Studios, Grass Valley CA. It has patterns from Afgans to Yorkshire Terriers. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 30 05:23:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uEEQj-0000DKa; Tue, 30 Apr 96 05:21 PDT X-Path: YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu!UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass info Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 08:17:09 EDT Message-ID: <960430.082105.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1996Apr26.18055.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Re: designing a golden retriever....Try photocopying a favorite picture, enlarging to a decent size. Now sandwich this with carbon paper over another sheet of paper and trace around the dog's outline, also marking eyes, nose, ears. Now you have a good idea of the shape and can use that as the basis for design. Remember that you don't have to design at the size you want, but can enlarge your design later. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 30 09:34:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uEIM1-0001G7a; Tue, 30 Apr 96 09:32 PDT X-Path: server.northernnet.com!hensley From: Mike & Jodi Hensley To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sheep pattern Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 11:33:34 -0500 Message-ID: <199604301633.LAA20579@server.northernnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Karin, >>In response to "If you ever need >anything, just let me know." Do you sell your wool to a manufacture of >yarns. Just curious ! Have made "buffalo sweaters" years ago from unspun >yarn. Eventually, I will sell my wool. Right now, I use it to spin and make sweaters. My flock is rather small. Once I have a larger flock, I hope to produce wool, yarn, and the like to sell. I wouldn't be spinning the bulk then. I would send the fleece and have it spun. Do you spin? If you would like, after I have my sheep shorn, I could send some wool. I think it will be a while before I have them sheared though. I hear we are going to get another foot of snow. Argh, how long is this winter going to be:) >>Did you get any other sheep patterns ? I am going to order the CD from Hackney Designs if I ever get around to it. Hopefully, I will be able to incorperate several designs together to create what I want. I have several different breeds and I think I can adapt the pattern that you sent me to represent them. Well, I will keep you posted on how it turns out. I just started a window for my Mother so, it will be a while until I can get started on a new one. Also, it is time to lamb and I wil be in the barn for a while. Jodi. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 30 10:49:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uEJWI-0000qIa; Tue, 30 Apr 96 10:47 PDT X-Path: Wittenberg.EDU!cutler From: cutler@Wittenberg.EDU To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Shop names Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:46:54 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr30.174654.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all. I have been following the various threads with interest. I am thinking about what to put on my business card by way of a name for my custom stained glass "shop." I use ""'s because I'm not sure I'll ever have a real SHOP, but assuming I do for now, I am wondering what to call it. Is there someplace "out there" a list of names already in use? Just wondering. Bob Cutler ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 30 15:05:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uENWq-0001AKa; Tue, 30 Apr 96 15:04 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: Albert Lewis <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Shop names Date: 30 Apr 96 18:01:55 EDT Message-ID: <1996Apr30.22155.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I am thinking about what to put on my business card by way of a name >for my custom stained glass "shop." Bob, There are 17,716 shop (and "shop") names on our database of glass people, but IMHO you should come up with a name that's expressive of how *you work with glass, of the kind of work you do, etc. ... and one that's not being used in your town or area (which you can check by looking in the Yellow Pages under "Glass, Stained and Leaded," usually. For instance, "Tiffany Lampworks" would imply that you use JCT's techniques to produce *only lamps, but "Cutler's Architectural Art Glass" seems broader in its scope and would allow for not only lamps but homes and offices. If you ask me for my personal gripe about studio names, it is those that are kind of off-color, like "Pane in the Glass" or, even worse, "A Nice Piece of Glass." I would think that more than a *little business would be driven away than attracted by a shop name like that. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 30 16:08:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uEOVN-0001Joa; Tue, 30 Apr 96 16:06 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 15:27:38 -0700 Message-ID: <199604302227.PAA29676@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >>>>Michael: >>>>>You wrote: >> >>You should not have a problem with glass popping out of even the >>smallest came as long as your pieces are well cut, The came is sized >>properly, and the panel itself is sized to fit the opening >> >In response to my concern with the lead popping out. I know now from first >hand experience that the glass won't pop out. Took my very large piece out >side to take a picture of my master piece. Leaned up against the fir tree, >took a couple of shots. Moved it around the other side of the tree in order >to capture the sun coming thru (we get so little of it) snaped the camera >just in time to have a gust of wind blow it over onto my lawn. Yup, a couple >of pieces broke, but it all stayed together. Hey, it was a good experience >in doing repairs to a rather large piece. That's what I call learning the >hard way, but then some of us just have to do that. > >Karin > > Bet you'll use mono fish line to secure the panel next photo outing. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 30 17:45:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uEQ1P-00019ea; Tue, 30 Apr 96 17:43 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: I.G.G.A. & Golden Retriever Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 01:38:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199605010050.BAA01506@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Have had computer problems, so been off-line for a few days. ..suffered withdrawal symptoms... This is really a question to Albert Lewis, but I thought I'd ask it in the group, in case there were other non-USA interested parties. I received all the info about the IGGA (many Thanks Albert!), but nowhere a mention of exactly how to pay my money (i.e.name/place of your bank, bank code, account no etc). Sure, I can go and buy an International Money Order, but that will cost me more than the subscription itself; I can also ask my own bank to find out (for which they will charge me about $30), or I - if I had them - can supply my bank with the details, in which case they will only charge me about $14.( All exclusive of the subs itself, of course). Also, couldn't find anything specific about Chapters in Uk or Europe - or did I miss something? Elsie and the Golden Retriever project; if you don't have any pictures/photos yourself, a good place to start is your nearest vetinary surgeon and ask him if you can "borrow" a dog poster (smile sweetly) they invariably have in the waiting room and then copy one from there in line with what Dorothy has already suggested. Dog encyclopeadias (the children's ones are often excellent) in your local library . Have already designed a pekinese, a labrador , poodle , a bobtail and a number of others some years ago. Most of them went to a canine "beauty parlour" in France . The pekinese was the trickiest one....Good Luck! ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 30 17:45:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uEQ1O-0001Bda; Tue, 30 Apr 96 17:43 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Shop names Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 01:38:17 +0000 Message-ID: <199605010050.BAA01504@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You asked: Hi all. I have been following the various threads with interest. I am thinking about what to put on my business card by way of a name for my custom stained glass "shop." I use ""'s because I'm not sure I'll ever have a real SHOP, but assuming I do for now, I am wondering what to call it. Is there someplace "out there" a list of names already in use? Just wondering. My advice to you : Never mind what names other people have used; try and sit down with a blank sheet of paper and analyze yourself (in stained glass terms, that is) Who are you? Where are you? What are you about? What do you want to achieve? What are your unique strengths? Break it down to single key-words, then play about with 2-3-4 of these words to find your own unique name for your shop.... But only you can come up with the final answer. Good Luck! ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 30 21:18:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uETLg-0001DYa; Tue, 30 Apr 96 21:17 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Shop names Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 00:16:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr30.201659.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello All: I just recently set up my "shop" too. I went to the county clerk's office in my county and tried to register several names that my wife and I thought of. "All of the good ones we taken", so to speak. I would suggest making a list of possibles, including many more than you think you will need. The clerk will probably look them up in the computer, and tell you which ones have been registered. Here in Houston, there is no charge to check the names for use, and only a minimal charge to register one. Good luck in registering your D.B.A. Also another thing to consider. If you AND a significant other are going to be joint owners/operators, both will need to be present to sign the D.B.A. appilcation form. Hope this info helps... P.S.... My "shop's" name is "Shattered Images." ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 30 21:54:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uETur-00019Ta; Tue, 30 Apr 96 21:53 PDT X-Path: monmouth.com!clambert From: C Lambert To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Shop names Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 00:48:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Apr30.20486.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB36F7.E03DF740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am not sure if this is going to sound silly but I used one of my = favorite pieces to name my shop... I made the wizard from the dream = world pattern book. Took a really good picture of it and had my = business cards printed up with "Enchanted Glass" It seems to have = worked for me:) Katie ---------- From: cutler@Wittenberg.EDU[SMTP:cutler@Wittenberg.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 1996 1:46 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Shop names Hi all. I have been following the various threads with interest. =20 I am thinking about what to put on my business card by way of a name for my custom stained glass "shop." I use ""'s because I'm not sure I'll ever have a real SHOP, but assuming I do for now, I am wondering what to call it. Is there someplace "out there" a list of names already in use? =20 Just wondering. Bob Cutler ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB36F7.E03DF740 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig0EAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD0AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AU01UUABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAAAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4A ATABAAAAEgAAACdnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAVAAAAU01UUDpHTEFTU0BCVU5H SS5DT00AAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAN8KwEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5N aWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAPAAAAUkU6IFNob3AgbmFtZXMAvwQBBYADAA4AAADM BwUAAQAAADAABgADABIBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcFAAEAAAAuAA0AAwAXAQEJgAEAIQAAADM2MjJDQ0M0 OEJBMkNGMTFBREY0NDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAAMHAQOQBgBgBQAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAAL ACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AGDdkmMZN7sBHgBwAAEAAAAPAAAAUkU6IFNob3AgbmFtZXMAAAIB cQABAAAAFgAAAAG7NxljesTMIjeiixHPrfRERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAf DAEAAAAWAAAAY2xhbWJlcnRAbW9ubW91dGguY29tAAAAAwAGED/dYH0DAAcQGgMAAB4ACBABAAAA ZQAAAElBTU5PVFNVUkVJRlRISVNJU0dPSU5HVE9TT1VORFNJTExZQlVUSVVTRURPTkVPRk1ZRkFW T1JJVEVQSUVDRVNUT05BTUVNWVNIT1BJTUFERVRIRVdJWkFSREZST01USEVEUkUAAAAAAgEJEAEA AADqAwAA5gMAALAGAABMWkZ1x57OEP8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKD MgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLkBxMCgH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsK FFEFC/JjAEAgSSBhbSggbm8FQHMIcGUgcQaQIHRoBAAbwAQgZ2pvC4BnG/BvG3AIYG4GZBtwAxBs eSAgYvZ1BUAa8HURsB1QAiAbsIpvG+BtHbBmYXYFsNJpE9AgcAiQYweRHOEObhsQG7AfAXNob3D+ LiEgGuEAwA2wG/EbsAPw3noLER8gA2Ehw2QWEBsR+ncFsGwdUAqwAkAEkgbgZG9rIUAgVCRhGwAg nyMhHZIcgARwH7FjdBuS/x7RH4AbAB1BEYAdUB8BHeD3AJAeoAQRYwsRBCATUAuAMxPQHVB1cCIB HAAgImxFbhFxKKNHC2AEECJvHcAa4BthCeBtIBMRgHZ7IfEFsGseYQIQBcAHgDp6KQqFSyPgCJAK hQqLbBBpMTgwAtFpLTE8NDQN8AzQL1MLWTE2zwqgA2AT0CYQIC0xdwqH1zArDDAw9kYDYToyfjD2 lwyCKAAd8GwEkEBXH4AJE9BuYgSQZy5FRIBVW1NNVFA6Nj/9N0JdMh8zLQZgAjA0XzVrglQKUHNk YXksFLATKHEDIDMwPdAxOTmSNj6AOjQ+wFBNOU+vMy0kwDuPNWtnKjJAHeBpGRBpLgWgbT9fOl51 3GJqMTFBfzVrUyDxIFPmcy1/LoMzNi/3GkUw9vxIaRsAHZAkkRrwK3M3AHcJ8CwhHZBvA/AcsiHh du0KwGkIYCARaCMhKEEpI38okhYQE8AkkQqFGvMcAW7eaxyiAaAIYAVAdxGABUB9HOFwHfECICdP HdAdsHf/PbAewiUQIGIKhSwzHbA34P8TwCKhE8ALcR5hQ1MpYCDj5ypwHiMpYCInBCA3ACgQWVfi SScbKFBmJx2QID5lK5AFwCtzJRQGAEhPzlA90B3iKkF1bRyiGvDuZBzwLDIbQHc90BrzI3D/HUAG cRkQCoVSFigQWkEfgP4uUGZOwk/hHQEHgAtRH/D/KWBR0mCDKnAlEC6wE8Aewr9I40xRTwIdsAuA HjI/UEeeSlYBXdhf1gqFQm82EG5DN/MKhTHZRgWxG4Bi7wT0TpADoCmiZweQPdALUH8jMFfxAMAD ERzgRrBDUy31FhBxPXF0Q68kwCrRHUH/HOEh0mJiPdBuE2n/Q28KsvsHEBFwaSuQYyFOYAMQAaAX OBAbAAVAaAJAcDov1C93cqAuQ7cvb3NJPF9Jr0q/MQUKhRUxAHfwAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAA QAAHMEBJEiAZN7sBQAAIMEBJEiAZN7sBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAD8jA== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB36F7.E03DF740-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass