From owner-glass Thu May  1 07:10:39 2003
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From: Jerry <jerryc34@attbi.com>
To: Carol Boyette <carol.boyette@verizon.net>,
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Subject: Re: Soldering wire
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 09:32:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@attbi.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@verizon.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Carol,

This is a true exercise in patience for me and often the most colourful
words spring LOUDLY from my lips during this stage.

I unroll a length of the wire from the spool and tack it somewhere,
generally what I know to be the back of my project (if a lampshade) or
somewhere where the ends won't show as much if I can't bead them perfectly.

If the edge is smooth, flat or gently curved I have an easier time and will
tack it every few inches, holding the wire down and soldering close to my
finger. Don=B9t solder too close as the wire heats up quickly.

If the edge is rather jagged, I will use my needlenose pliers to try and
bend the wire as best I can to conform to the shape. I'll tack it somewhere
near the deepest 'zig zag' but not right in the zig zag as I'd rather leave
that for the beading.

Once I get it tacked I have to stop for a few minutes as my hands hurt from
being so uptight. I'll then go back to it and very slowly and very carefull=
y
try to work as nice a beading as I possibly can.

This is one area where I really wish someone had a video to show the proper
way it's done.

Not sure if I've helped but I thought I'd throw my .50=A2 (inflation) worth
in.=20

Jerry
--=20
http://homepage.mac.com/jerry02149

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From owner-glass Thu May  1 07:12:08 2003
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X-Path: compuquestinc.com!marge
From: "Marge Lind" <marge@compuquestinc.com>
To: "Cheryl Parrott" <theglassparrott@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Bungi  Re: beveled snowflakes  it's a blizzard
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 08:54:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuquestinc.com>
Organization: http://www.compuquestinc.com
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Cheryl;

Congratulations!!!!

I would love to see pictures of your snowflakes. Also where are they sold?

Marge


On 30 Apr 2003 at 17:10, Cheryl Parrott wrote:

From:           	"Cheryl Parrott" <theglassparrott@hotmail.com>
To:             	glass@bungi.com
Subject:        	beveled snowflakes  it's a blizzard
Date sent:      	Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:10:44 -0700

Hi all.
I just received a $10,000 wholesale order for snowflakes. This is my third year for 
making them wholesale. The first year was a $2500 order and they sold within the 
first three weeks. Last year was a $6000 order and they sold in a little over a month. 
The retail prices range from $90 to $250. I am soooo excited. There will be a 
blizzard with all these snowflakes. That is just one customer. I have four other 
customers yet to place orders. Yikes!
Cheryl Parrott




Cheryl Parrott

The Glass Parrott 

theglassparrott@hotmail.com

425 776-8618







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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Compuquest, Inc.  Fax: 630-830-0877
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           Since 1983 
  Innovative Technology Solutions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






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From owner-glass Thu May  1 08:12:02 2003
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Subject: bungi:Soldering wire
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 10:30:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Carol Boyette"
>Can anyone give me advice on soldering wire around the edge of a project=

such as a lampshade, sun catcher. etc.?  This seems to give me more troub=
le
than anything else.  I can see that all of my skills are improving except=

for this one.  I would appreciate any advice any of you can give me.<

Layout the panel and make the copper wire conform exactly to the shape
FIRST.  Pin it down with lots and lots of push pins.  If the panel is
heavy, have the copper wire actually run into the body of the panel along=
 a
strong solder line.  Once all the copper wire is securely penned to the
panel, solder inbetween the pens.  Then remove the pens and solder the re=
st
of the unsoldered places.  Flip the panel over and do any touchup
necessary.  DO NOT attempt to run your soldering iron around the edge in
one fell swoop....this builds up too much heat in one area and the wire
will pull away as your iron goes along.

When doing the lampshade edge (I am assuming you already have the full
lampshade made - full soldering inside and outside and the copper wire is=

being added last), lay the lampshade down and solder the copper wire a
little at a time to the edge, leaving gaps unsoldered.  Since you can't u=
se
the push pens, hold the copper wire in place with a pair of pliers.  Bend=

the copper wire to conform to the lampshade edge as you go.  Go all aroun=
d
the lampshade like this, then go back and fill in the gaps just like on a=

panel.  I use a box stuffed with rags to hold my lampshade in a horizonta=
l
plane when soldering.  Flip the lampshade over and do touchups to the
outside edge.

Hope this helps.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Thu May  1 09:44:47 2003
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From: "Cheryl Parrott" <theglassparrott@hotmail.com>
To: pkelly@hot.rr.com, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: RE: beveled snowflakes it's a blizzard
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 09:20:49 -0700
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Patrick,</P>
<P>Yes, I sign them.&nbsp; I use my dremmel.&nbsp;&nbsp; My husband gave me the dremmel for a birthday present a few years ago.&nbsp; At the time I thought it was a strange gift to get, but now I love it.&nbsp; </P>
<P>Last year I offered a limited edition piece to stores with wholesale orders of $5000 or more.&nbsp; This year I added a second piece.&nbsp;&nbsp; Those snowflakes are signed and numbered.&nbsp; (Folks just love that kind of stuff)</P>
<P>The head gardner at the Seattle Conservatory wants to buy some pieces to use in their Christmas display.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm sure they will look beautiful hanging over the plants.&nbsp; I can't wait for that order to get finalized.&nbsp;&nbsp; Fun!!</P>
<P><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive" color=#0000cc></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive" color=#0000cc></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive" color=#0000cc>Cheryl Parrott</FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000cc>The</FONT><FONT color=#009900> Glass</FONT><FONT color=#0033cc> Parrott </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" color=#0033cc><A href="mailto:theglassparrott@hotmail.com">theglassparrott@hotmail.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" color=#0033cc>425 776-8618</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif"></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif"></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;From: "Patrick Kelly" <PKELLY@HOT.RR.COM>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;To: <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: RE: beveled snowflakes it's a blizzard 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 01:36:00 -0500 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Cheryl, 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Since you like to make them ( and of course sell them) do you sign them? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Perhaps you could also number them. You never know when you might see 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;one of your creations in the oddest places. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Patrick 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Roses and Rainbow 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;---- 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass 
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Protect your PC - <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMNENUS/2755">Click here</a> for McAfee.com VirusScan Online </html>
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From owner-glass Thu May  1 10:58:54 2003
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From: "Cheryl Parrott" <theglassparrott@hotmail.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: snowflakes
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:56:43 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Message-ID: <3EB151CB.000003.04028@your-ze8cxvr8tt>
Precedence: bulk


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My web site is under construction so I posted the pictures on a yahoo pho=
to
album site.   You can see them at   photos.yahoo.com/theglassparrott=0D
=0D
It always makes me nervous posting pictures.  A couple years ago a manage=
r
at Lowes hardware purchased a snowflake from one of the retail stores wit=
h
the intention of having it mass produced.  (some people have a lot of a
nerve.  That torqued my jaw!  After I heard about what happened I went to
see a patent attorney who encouraged me to get each piece copyrighted. =0D
=0D
I have gone to great length to make sure my snowflakes aren't in Deverie
Wood's pattern book "The Magic of Snowflakes I and II"  Deverie lives onl=
y a
few miles from here.  She said she doesn't care if they are copied as lon=
g
as they aren't mass produced or end up in a catalog.   She is also very
supportive of my work.  She's a nice lady!!=0D
=0D
Thank you to every one for your nice comments and encouragement.=0D
=0D
Cheryl =20
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<TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; CURSOR: auto; FONT-F=
AMILY: Arial" width=3D"100%">
<DIV>My web site is under construction so I posted the pictures on a yaho=
o photo album site.&nbsp;&nbsp; You can see them at&nbsp;&nbsp; photos.ya=
hoo.com/theglassparrott</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It always makes me nervous posting pictures.&nbsp;&nbsp;A couple yea=
rs ago a manager at Lowes hardware purchased a snowflake from one of the =
retail stores with the intention of having it mass produced.&nbsp; (some =
people have a lot of a&nbsp;nerve.&nbsp; That torqued my jaw! &nbsp;After=
 I heard about what happened I went to see a patent attorney who encourag=
ed me to get each piece copyrighted.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I have gone to great length to make sure&nbsp;my snowflakes aren't i=
n Deverie Wood's pattern book&nbsp;"The Magic of Snowflakes I and II"&nbs=
p; Deverie lives only a few miles from here.&nbsp; She said she doesn't c=
are if they are copied as long as they aren't mass produced or end up in =
a catalog.&nbsp;&nbsp; She is also very supportive of my work.&nbsp; She'=
s a nice lady!!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thank you to every one for your&nbsp;nice comments and encouragement=
=2E</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Cheryl&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></TD></TR>
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From owner-glass Thu May  1 12:17:13 2003
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X-Path: sympatico.ca!ron.amero
From: "Ron Amero" <ron.amero@sympatico.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: RE: snowflakes
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:07:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@sympatico.ca>
References: <<3EB151CB.000003.04028@your-ze8cxvr8tt>>
Precedence: bulk

Cheryl,
Nice designs and work.  One question - do you re-enforce the bigger pieces,
e.g. with very fine wire or something else?  Given the significant weight
and delicate nature of the designs, have you had any problems?  This has
always been a concern for me.  Appreciate any advice on this aspect.

Thanks,
Ron
PS: Not sure about others, but I am receiving a few posts such as this one
which are strangely encoded and difficult to read. I don't think it is my
set up but I may be wrong.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cheryl Parrott [mailto:theglassparrott@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:57 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: snowflakes


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My web site is under construction so I posted the pictures on a yahoo pho=
to
album site.   You can see them at   photos.yahoo.com/theglassparrott=0D
=0D
It always makes me nervous posting pictures.  A couple years ago a manage=
r
at Lowes hardware purchased a snowflake from one of the retail stores wit=
h
the intention of having it mass produced.  (some people have a lot of a
nerve.  That torqued my jaw!  After I heard about what happened I went to
see a patent attorney who encouraged me to get each piece copyrighted. =0D
=0D
I have gone to great length to make sure my snowflakes aren't in Deverie
Wood's pattern book "The Magic of Snowflakes I and II"  Deverie lives onl=
y a
few miles from here.  She said she doesn't care if they are copied as lon=
g
as they aren't mass produced or end up in a catalog.   She is also very
supportive of my work.  She's a nice lady!!=0D
=0D
Thank you to every one for your nice comments and encouragement.=0D
=0D
Cheryl =20
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AMILY: Arial" width=3D"100%">
<DIV>My web site is under construction so I posted the pictures on a yaho=
o photo album site.&nbsp;&nbsp; You can see them at&nbsp;&nbsp; photos.ya=
hoo.com/theglassparrott</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It always makes me nervous posting pictures.&nbsp;&nbsp;A couple yea=
rs ago a manager at Lowes hardware purchased a snowflake from one of the =
retail stores with the intention of having it mass produced.&nbsp; (some =
people have a lot of a&nbsp;nerve.&nbsp; That torqued my jaw! &nbsp;After=
 I heard about what happened I went to see a patent attorney who encourag=
ed me to get each piece copyrighted.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I have gone to great length to make sure&nbsp;my snowflakes aren't i=
n Deverie Wood's pattern book&nbsp;"The Magic of Snowflakes I and II"&nbs=
p; Deverie lives only a few miles from here.&nbsp; She said she doesn't c=
are if they are copied as long as they aren't mass produced or end up in =
a catalog.&nbsp;&nbsp; She is also very supportive of my work.&nbsp; She'=
s a nice lady!!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thank you to every one for your&nbsp;nice comments and encouragement=
=2E</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Cheryl&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD id=3DINCREDIFOOTER width=3D"100%">
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From owner-glass Thu May  1 14:11:43 2003
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com
	via smail with stdio
	id <m19BKbk-0000E0a@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Thu, 1 May 2003 13:24:44 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: hotmail.com!theglassparrott
From: "Cheryl Parrott" <theglassparrott@hotmail.com>
To: <ron.amero@sympatico.ca>, <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Multipart/related;
Subject: RE: snowflakes
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:11:18 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Message-ID: <3EB17F66.000018.04028@your-ze8cxvr8tt>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@sympatico.ca>>
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Ron,=0D
=0D
Thank you  I appreciate all the comments.  It's great and very encouragin=
g.=0D
=0D
As to reinforcement.  I reinforce some of the pieces where tips can come =
off
such as winter wonderland and Peace.   I am very careful as to where I
solder the chains which hold the piece.  I make sure that it is going int=
o a
joint that has the strength to hold the entire load.  You need to make su=
re
it won't pull apart.   I have never  had a problem with the chain not
holding or the piece falling apart other than from customer abuse.   I us=
e
curly wire which I curl and pound myself sometimes to add strength and fo=
r
the aesthetics of the piece..    You can buy pre curled and tinned wire, =
but
hey I like to do it myself plus it is cheaper.=0D
=0D
Wow, You are right, that post was difficult to read.   I don't know what =
is
causing it.  I don't think everyone received it in the same format.=20
Frustrating!!! =0D
-------Original Message-------=0D
 =0D
From: Ron Amero=0D
Date: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:49:26=0D
To: glass@bungi.com=0D
Subject: RE: snowflakes=0D
 =0D
Cheryl,=0D
Nice designs and work. One question - do you re-enforce the bigger pieces=
,=0D
e.g. with very fine wire or something else? Given the significant weight=0D
and delicate nature of the designs, have you had any problems? This has=0D
always been a concern for me. Appreciate any advice on this aspect.=0D
 =0D
Thanks,=0D
Ron=0D
PS: Not sure about others, but I am receiving a few posts such as this on=
e=0D
which are strangely encoded and difficult to read. I don't think it is my=
=0D
set up but I may be wrong.=0D
 =0D
-----Original Message-----=0D
From: Cheryl Parrott [mailto:theglassparrott@hotmail.com]=0D
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:57 PM=0D
To: glass@bungi.com=0D
Subject: snowflakes=0D
 =0D
 =0D
--------------Boundary-00=3D_JEW7G6G0000000000000=0D
Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative;=0D
boundary=3D"------------Boundary-00=3D_JEW7BHK0000000000000"=0D
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Content-Type: Text/Plain;=0D
charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=0D
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 =0D
My web site is under construction so I posted the pictures on a yahoo pho=
=3D=0D
to=0D
album site. You can see them at photos.yahoo.com/theglassparrott=3D0D=0D
=3D0D=0D
It always makes me nervous posting pictures. A couple years ago a manage=3D=
=0D
r=0D
at Lowes hardware purchased a snowflake from one of the retail stores wit=
=3D=0D
h=0D
the intention of having it mass produced. (some people have a lot of a=0D
nerve. That torqued my jaw! After I heard about what happened I went to=0D
see a patent attorney who encouraged me to get each piece copyrighted. =3D=
0D=0D
=3D0D=0D
I have gone to great length to make sure my snowflakes aren't in Deverie=0D
Wood's pattern book "The Magic of Snowflakes I and II" Deverie lives onl=3D=
=0D
y a=0D
few miles from here. She said she doesn't care if they are copied as lon=3D=
=0D
g=0D
as they aren't mass produced or end up in a catalog. She is also very=0D
supportive of my work. She's a nice lady!!=3D0D=0D
=3D0D=0D
Thank you to every one for your nice comments and encouragement.=3D0D=0D
=3D0D=0D
Cheryl =3D20=0D
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<DIV>My web site is under construction so I posted the pictures on a yaho=
=3D=0D
o photo album site.&nbsp;&nbsp; You can see them at&nbsp;&nbsp; photos.ya=
=3D=0D
hoo.com/theglassparrott</DIV>=0D
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0D
<DIV>It always makes me nervous posting pictures.&nbsp;&nbsp;A couple yea=
=3D=0D
rs ago a manager at Lowes hardware purchased a snowflake from one of the =
=3D=0D
retail stores with the intention of having it mass produced.&nbsp; (some =
=3D=0D
people have a lot of a&nbsp;nerve.&nbsp; That torqued my jaw! &nbsp;After=
=3D=0D
I heard about what happened I went to see a patent attorney who encourag=3D=
=0D
ed me to get each piece copyrighted.&nbsp;</DIV>=0D
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0D
<DIV>I have gone to great length to make sure&nbsp;my snowflakes aren't i=
=3D=0D
n Deverie Wood's pattern book&nbsp;"The Magic of Snowflakes I and II"&nbs=
=3D=0D
p; Deverie lives only a few miles from here.&nbsp; She said she doesn't c=
=3D=0D
are if they are copied as long as they aren't mass produced or end up in =
=3D=0D
a catalog.&nbsp;&nbsp; She is also very supportive of my work.&nbsp; She'=
=3D=0D
s a nice lady!!</DIV>=0D
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0D
<DIV>Thank you to every one for your&nbsp;nice comments and encouragement=
=3D=0D
=3D2E</DIV>=0D
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0D
<DIV>Cheryl&nbsp; </DIV>=0D
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></TD></TR>=0D
<TR>=0D
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For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com=0D
To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com=0D
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass=0D
 =0D
 =0D
----=0D
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com=0D
To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com=0D
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass=20
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<TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; CURSOR: auto; FONT-F=
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<DIV>Ron,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thank you&nbsp; I appreciate all the comments.&nbsp; It's great and =
very encouraging.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>As to reinforcement.&nbsp; I reinforce some of the pieces where tips=
 can come off such as winter wonderland and Peace.&nbsp;&nbsp; I am very =
careful as to where I solder the chains which hold the piece.&nbsp; I mak=
e sure that it is going into a joint that has the strength to hold the en=
tire load.&nbsp; You need to make sure it won't pull apart.&nbsp;&nbsp; I=
 have never&nbsp; had a problem with the chain not holding or the piece f=
alling apart other than from customer abuse.&nbsp;&nbsp; I use curly wire=
 which I curl and pound myself sometimes to add strength and for the aest=
hetics of the piece..&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; You can buy pre curled and tinned=
 wire, but hey I like to do it myself plus it is cheaper.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Wow,&nbsp;You are right, that post was difficult to read.&nbsp;&nbsp=
; I don't know what is causing it.&nbsp; I don't think everyone received =
it in the same format.&nbsp;&nbsp;Frustrating!!!&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV id=3DIncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-------</I></D=
IV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV id=3Dreceivestrings>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>From:</B></I> <A href=3D"m=
ailto:ron.amero@sympatico.ca">Ron Amero</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Date:</B></I> Thursday, Ma=
y 01, 2003 12:49:26</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>To:</B></I> <A href=3D"mai=
lto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Subject:</B></I> RE: snowf=
lakes</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Cheryl,</DIV>
<DIV>Nice designs and work. One question - do you re-enforce the bigger p=
ieces,</DIV>
<DIV>e.g. with very fine wire or something else? Given the significant we=
ight</DIV>
<DIV>and delicate nature of the designs, have you had any problems? This =
has</DIV>
<DIV>always been a concern for me. Appreciate any advice on this aspect.<=
/DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Ron</DIV>
<DIV>PS: Not sure about others, but I am receiving a few posts such as th=
is one</DIV>
<DIV>which are strangely encoded and difficult to read. I don't think it =
is my</DIV>
<DIV>set up but I may be wrong.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>-----Original Message-----</DIV>
<DIV>From: Cheryl Parrott [<A href=3D"mailto:theglassparrott@hotmail.com"=
>mailto:theglassparrott@hotmail.com</A>]</DIV>
<DIV>Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:57 PM</DIV>
<DIV>To: <A href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>Subject: snowflakes</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
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<DIV>charset=3D"iso-8859-1"</DIV>
<DIV>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>My web site is under construction so I posted the pictures on a yaho=
o pho=3D</DIV>
<DIV>to</DIV>
<DIV>album site. You can see them at photos.yahoo.com/theglassparrott=3D0=
D</DIV>
<DIV>=3D0D</DIV>
<DIV>It always makes me nervous posting pictures. A couple years ago a ma=
nage=3D</DIV>
<DIV>r</DIV>
<DIV>at Lowes hardware purchased a snowflake from one of the retail store=
s wit=3D</DIV>
<DIV>h</DIV>
<DIV>the intention of having it mass produced. (some people have a lot of=
 a</DIV>
<DIV>nerve. That torqued my jaw! After I heard about what happened I went=
 to</DIV>
<DIV>see a patent attorney who encouraged me to get each piece copyrighte=
d. =3D0D</DIV>
<DIV>=3D0D</DIV>
<DIV>I have gone to great length to make sure my snowflakes aren't in Dev=
erie</DIV>
<DIV>Wood's pattern book "The Magic of Snowflakes I and II" Deverie lives=
 onl=3D</DIV>
<DIV>y a</DIV>
<DIV>few miles from here. She said she doesn't care if they are copied as=
 lon=3D</DIV>
<DIV>g</DIV>
<DIV>as they aren't mass produced or end up in a catalog. She is also ver=
y</DIV>
<DIV>supportive of my work. She's a nice lady!!=3D0D</DIV>
<DIV>=3D0D</DIV>
<DIV>Thank you to every one for your nice comments and encouragement.=3D0=
D</DIV>
<DIV>=3D0D</DIV>
<DIV>Cheryl =3D20</DIV>
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<DIV>o photo album site.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; You can see them at&amp;nbsp=
;&amp;nbsp; photos.ya=3D</DIV>
<DIV>hoo.com/theglassparrott&lt;/DIV&gt;</DIV>
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<DIV>&lt;DIV&gt;It always makes me nervous posting pictures.&amp;nbsp;&am=
p;nbsp;A couple yea=3D</DIV>
<DIV>rs ago a manager at Lowes hardware purchased a snowflake from one of=
 the =3D</DIV>
<DIV>retail stores with the intention of having it mass produced.&amp;nbs=
p; (some =3D</DIV>
<DIV>people have a lot of a&amp;nbsp;nerve.&amp;nbsp; That torqued my jaw=
! &amp;nbsp;After=3D</DIV>
<DIV>I heard about what happened I went to see a patent attorney who enco=
urag=3D</DIV>
<DIV>ed me to get each piece copyrighted.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&lt;DIV&gt;I have gone to great length to make sure&amp;nbsp;my snow=
flakes aren't i=3D</DIV>
<DIV>n Deverie Wood's pattern book&amp;nbsp;"The Magic of Snowflakes I an=
d II"&amp;nbs=3D</DIV>
<DIV>p; Deverie lives only a few miles from here.&amp;nbsp; She said she =
doesn't c=3D</DIV>
<DIV>are if they are copied as long as they aren't mass produced or end u=
p in =3D</DIV>
<DIV>a catalog.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; She is also very supportive of my wor=
k.&amp;nbsp; She'=3D</DIV>
<DIV>s a nice lady!!&lt;/DIV&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&lt;DIV&gt;Thank you to every one for your&amp;nbsp;nice comments an=
d encouragement=3D</DIV>
<DIV>=3D2E&lt;/DIV&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&lt;DIV&gt;Cheryl&amp;nbsp; &lt;/DIV&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&lt;TR&gt;</DIV>
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;/TD&gt;</DIV>
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<DIV>ABLE&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;&lt;/TBODY&gt;&lt;/TABLE&gt;&lt;SPAN i=
d=3D3DIncrediStamp&gt;&lt;SPAN dir=3D3Dltr&gt;&lt;F=3D</DIV>
<DIV>ONT face=3D3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D3D2&gt;__________=
____________=3D</DIV>
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<TD id=3DINCREDIANIM vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dmiddle></TD></TR></TBODY></T=
ABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><SPAN id=3DIncrediStamp><SPAN dir=3Dltr><F=
ONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D2>______________________=
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Subject: Re: Bungi - Re: e-bay sales
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 17:08:30 -0400
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Message text written by "Cheryl Parrott"
>I do give discounts to friends and family members.   I have given
discounts
to clients occasionally.  You are right about not discounting art.  I
really
need to focus on that and not be a whimp!<

I also give a 20% discount off of retail price to family and my
apprentices.  But that's it.  Right now I am taking a wholesale client to=

the Texas DA's for bad checks.  He's had the nerve to bounce 3 checks on =
me
within the span of 1 month.  Grrrrrrr........  Gonna sic the DA on 'em!  =
My
county government is VERY, VERY GOOD at catching bad check writers and
getting your money to you without cost to the taxpayer!  Go get 'em,
cowboy!

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Thu May  1 16:10:26 2003
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Subject: Re: snowflakes
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 18:25:01 -0400
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@sympatico.ca>>
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Hi Ron,

Yes, I've gotten several notes with that strange encoding. I thought it was
just on my end as we've had problems with the cable modem the past week or
so.

Jerry

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From: "Cheryl Parrott" <Theglassparrott@hotmail.com>
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Ron, how is this.  Is the format better.=0D
=0D
=20
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From: "Atula Mathur" <atula25@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Beveled Snowflakes .
Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 09:42:36 +0000
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>See the stars. Upclose! <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMJENIN/2737">Bollywood photogallery.</a> </html>
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Dear Cheryll</P>
<P>Where can I view your Beveled Snowflakes online ? I would love to see them.</P>
<P>Regards</P>
<P>Atula Mathur<BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Hot new gizmos. Check 'em out. <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMJENIN/2749">Right now!</a> </html>
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Subject: viewing snowflakes- bungi
Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 14:11:31 -0700
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I've been trying to view the snowflakes and all I'm getting is : "this 
album is currently empty". Anyone else having problems 
with   photos.yahoo.com/theglassparrott ??  Lorley/Phoenix Arizona

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Subject: Re: viewing snowflakes- bungi
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--=====================_9816250==.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed


I saw Cheryl's photos Wednesday.  For some reason the pics appear to be 
down this evening.  Let's just say that I very much liked what I saw.  Very 
pretty.

At 02:11 PM 5/2/2003 -0700, Lorley Oneyear wrote:

>I've been trying to view the snowflakes and all I'm getting is : "this 
>album is currently empty". Anyone else having problems 
>with   photos.yahoo.com/theglassparrott ??  Lorley/Phoenix Arizona

____

Beware Weapons of Mass Distraction!

Bob
*****
  Robert L. Myers  304-574-2372
  Rt. 4, Box 57, Fayetteville, WV 25840 USA  WV tag Q SHIP
  '95 urS6 Cashmere Grey - der Wunderwagen   ICQ 22170244
  http://www.cob-net.org/church/pvcob.htm
*****

--=====================_9816250==.ALT
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<html>
<body>
<font size=3><br>
I saw Cheryl's photos Wednesday.&nbsp; For some reason the pics appear to
be down this evening.&nbsp; Let's just say that I very much liked what I
saw.&nbsp; Very pretty.  <br><br>
At 02:11 PM 5/2/2003 -0700, Lorley Oneyear wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>I've been trying to view the
snowflakes and all I'm getting is : &quot;this album is currently
empty&quot;. Anyone else having problems with&nbsp;&nbsp;
photos.yahoo.com/theglassparrott ??&nbsp; Lorley/Phoenix
Arizona</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
____<br><br>
Beware Weapons of Mass Distraction!<br><br>
Bob<br>
*****<br>
&nbsp;Robert L. Myers&nbsp; 304-574-2372&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;Rt. 4, Box 57, Fayetteville, WV 25840 USA&nbsp; WV tag Q
SHIP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;'95 urS6 Cashmere Grey - der Wunderwagen&nbsp;&nbsp; ICQ
22170244&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;<a href="http://www.cob-net.org/church/pvcob.htm" eudora="autourl">http://www.cob-net.org/church/pvcob.htm</a>
<br>
*****<br>
</font></body>
</html>

--=====================_9816250==.ALT--

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Subject: need help?
Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 01:00:17 -0400
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Hello All:

I'm searching for a pattern,  it's half sun and the other half moon,  
can anyone please help?


Thanks
David Schoffstall
dschoff@comcast.net

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--part1_12d.28b42a4d.2be513f1_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I got the same message for snowflakes.

--part1_12d.28b42a4d.2be513f1_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">I got the same message for snowflakes.</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun May  4 18:12:50 2003
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Subject: Re: Snowflakes -no album pictures :-(
Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:31:30 -0700
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me also
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com=20
  To: glass@bungi.com=20
  Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 5:45 AM
  Subject: Re: Snowflakes -no album pictures :-(


  I got the same message for snowflakes.=20

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>me also</FONT></DIV>
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style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:SGriffiSBG@aol.com"=20
  title=3DSGriffiSBG@aol.com>SGriffiSBG@aol.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com"=20
  title=3Dglass@bungi.com>glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 03, 2003 =
5:45=20
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Snowflakes -no =
album=20
  pictures :-(</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT face=3DArial =
lang=3D0 size=3D2=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">I got the same message for snowflakes.</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun May  4 21:14:05 2003
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X-Path: smileatyou.com!Derek.Olson
From: <Derek.Olson@SmileAtYou.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Confirmation
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 20:20:48 -0700
Message-ID: <E19CWX2-0000sr-00@conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
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Confirmation for glass@bungi.com

Please confirm that you would like updates of my work.

We have decided to add this 'double opt-in' system because some prankster decided it would be fun to add a bunch of people without their permission or knowledge.  This event has led me to answer angry emails all week instead of carving.  All I want to do is carve and share my work with those who can feel it and receive the light.  Nobody wants more useless email, and I certainly have no desire to share my work and ideas with anyone who has no interest.

Reply to this email and type 'Yes Please' in the body and you will be added.  Do nothing and you will be forgotten.

Derek Olson
Tristan Woodworks
http://www.SmileAtYou.com
Highlands Ranch, Colorado



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From owner-glass Mon May  5 12:09:08 2003
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From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@cox.net>
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Subject: bungi-zinc painting
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 10:56:18 -0700
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While I was pondering the ways of getting my zinc frame black, my 
significant other asked if I could not just paint it with gas grill paint 
or even car radiator paint. Do you think it will stick and not chip off? 
Would it look OK if I painted it black mat rather than glossy? Lorley

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From owner-glass Mon May  5 17:09:56 2003
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Subject: RE: bungi-zinc painting
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 12:24:09 -0700 
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Precedence: bulk

you might have to prime it with something first. there's some primers that
contain an acid which etches the surface to allow the primer to bite into
the metal. you need to use the correct breathing mask to use these; it will
contain carbon inserts.

zinc also frequently has an oily coating on it from manufacturing, which
should be removed first.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lorley Oneyear [mailto:lorley@cox.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 10:56 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: bungi-zinc painting
> 
> 
> While I was pondering the ways of getting my zinc frame black, my 
> significant other asked if I could not just paint it with gas 
> grill paint 
> or even car radiator paint. Do you think it will stick and 
> not chip off? 
> Would it look OK if I painted it black mat rather than glossy? Lorley
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From owner-glass Tue May  6 02:12:33 2003
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X-Path: smileatyou.com!Derek.Olson
From: <Derek.Olson@SmileAtYou.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Woodspiration
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 12:30:11 -0700
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2 topics today:

---Your Life
---First EBAY auction

YOUR LIFE

Do you have absolute joy in everything you're doing this week?  If you don't, what steps are you taking to improve the situation?

I know, for a fact, that I'm going to get a few responses this morning like this:

'I have to fill up my car with gas before lunch today, Derek.  I don't have absolute joy in doing this.  What can I do?'

My first response will be that you are quite a smart a$$.  Secondly, while you're filling up your car, instead of thinking what a bore it is, maybe you could take a minute to say 'It is nice that I have a car and the money to fill it up.'

Just think this week about what you're doing.  Make your life, and everyone around you, a little better starting today.

FIRST EBAY AUCTION

I've never sold anything on EBAY.  I completed a piece last week called 'Woman Nude in Sun'.  I thought it would be fun to toss it on EBAY and see what happens.  I have it starting at $1, with no reserve.  You can have a look at the auction here if you'd like:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20135&item=3518983781

Have a great week, and smile every now and then would ya?

Derek Olson
Tristan Woodworks
http://www.SmileAtYou.com
Highlands Ranch, Colorado

You are subscribed as glass@bungi.com
If you know someone who might like this, or you'd like off, please let me know.




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From owner-glass Wed May  7 05:35:53 2003
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Subject: Thanks for your support with my snowflake order.
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 01:02:42 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
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I just wanted to say thank you all for all your good words and support ab=
out
my latest endeavor with the snowflakes.=0D
=0D
I took the pictures off the yahoo page pretty much for my protection  aft=
er
talking with a few people including clients and folks that I value their
business opinion.   I was just so very excited about my order that I want=
ed
to share the news. =0D
=0D
Thanks again for the good words.=0D
=0D
Cheryl =20
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From owner-glass Wed May  7 11:58:24 2003
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Subject: bungi:Looking for a Dome Frame manufacturer
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 11:34:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all.  Hope someone in the group knows some info on this.  Yesterday I
was out at an "Antiques" mall in Forney, TX (just East of Dallas) on beha=
lf
of a client.  This store (Little Red Antiques) offers stained glass domes=

(8 feet in diameter made up of 8 semi-flat panels and a center panel set
into ?wrought iron? frame).  The owner of the antiques store told me they=

were made locally in Dallas by a gentleman, but declined to give me his
name, as they have had a run-in and are not talking to each other. =

Anyway....

I am looking for any information on:
1. Does anyone have any idea who this Dallas-based stained glass artist i=
s,
and how I can get in touch with him?  I want to see about commissioning h=
im
to do a dome in a different style (other than the SouthWestern styles whi=
ch
were on display at this antiques store)

2. Anyone have a lead on where I can purchase these dome frames?  They ar=
e
8 feet in diameter and 16" deep, with 8 welded-together frames which hold=

stained glass panels, plus the top center panel.  If I cannot find the
Dallas-based artist, my client is thinking of having me build him one of
these domes, but I cannot find them in any of my wholesale distributor
catalogs.  I've tried Bendheim, Glass Emporium, Rainbow, Houston, Holland=
er
and Northwest Art Glass distributors.  If I cannot find a supplier, I mig=
ht
commission a local ironworker to construct the dome frame for me, but thi=
s
is the last option I wish to pursue.

Any leads on this would be greatly appreciated.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Wed May  7 19:39:00 2003
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Subject: Re: bungi: a Dome Frame manufacturer
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 20:49:55 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Christie,

Try the Sierra Stained Glass Studios website at: 
http://www.sierradomes.com/index.html.  They are out of Modesto, CA and from 
their website it appears that they sell frames for various size ceiling 
domes. They may have what you are looking for.

Carolyn
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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dzfxdscagwhstjyd m yfxpyavkof tbqcfebywdq   beer 

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From owner-glass Wed May  7 20:33:58 2003
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Subject: Re: bungi:Looking for a Dome Frame manufacturer
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 22:42:46 EDT
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Hello Christie,
In the IGGA's 2003 Source Guide, page 12, is a listing for Domes in Modesto, 
CA.  Click here:    <A HREF="http://www.sierradomes.com/index.html">Stained Glass Domes from Sierra Stained Glass</A> 

Their text says "standard and custom sizes"... sounds like they can help you.

Ann Baxter

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR=3D"#0000ff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Franklin Gothic Book" LANG=3D"0">Hello Christie,<BR>
In the IGGA's 2003 Source Guide, page 12, is a listing for Domes in Modesto,=
 CA.&nbsp; Click here:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A HREF=3D"http://www.sierradomes.c=
om/index.html">Stained Glass Domes from Sierra Stained Glass</A></FONT><FONT=
  COLOR=3D"#0000ff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"S=
ANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Franklin Gothic Book" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>
<BR>
Their text says "standard and custom sizes"... sounds like they can help you=
.<BR>
<BR>
Ann Baxter</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu May  8 08:10:50 2003
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Subject: Re: bungi:Looking for a Dome Frame manufacturer
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 10:08:32 -0400
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Message text written by INTERNET:Shecharlie@aol.com
>or try sierradomes.com<

I did.  Looks very, very good.  Thanks to everyone!

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Fri May  9 15:14:40 2003
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Yes Please

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From owner-glass Thu May 15 11:16:00 2003
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X-Path: teradata-ncr.com!DF125031
From: "Becker, Donna" <DF125031@teradata-ncr.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Strip and Circle Cutter Recommendation
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:05:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@teradata>
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I thought we had a thread on this once, but I couldn't find it.  I'm going
to buy one, and I'd like to find out which one you all would recommend or
not recommend.  I can't live any more without one!

Thank You!!!

Thanks,
Donna Becker
Senior Consultant II

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From owner-glass Thu May 15 16:09:34 2003
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X-Path: verizon.net!moya.oneal
From: "Moya O'Neal" <moya.oneal@verizon.net>
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Subject: Re: Strip and Circle Cutter
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 18:05:47 -0400
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Donna
I am much more comfortable doing strips on the Morton System.  I have =
used both the Morton Circle Cutter and the Inland Circle/Strip cutter.  =
For circles I like both preferring the Inland.  For strip, the Morton is =
SO much better. IMHO
Moya

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Donna</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am much more comfortable doing strips =
on the=20
Morton System.&nbsp; I have used both the Morton Circle Cutter and the =
Inland=20
Circle/Strip cutter.&nbsp; For circles I like both preferring the =
Inland.&nbsp;=20
For strip, the Morton is SO much better. IMHO</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Moya</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu May 15 22:08:41 2003
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X-Path: comcast.net!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Strip and Circle Cutter Recommendation
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 23:54:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@teradata>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

For strips, I find myself falling back on a board from a Florida comp=
any=20
(Rainbow?) which also has a 180=BA arc so you can draw/cut on angles.=
=20
 Maybe because I'm too lazy to master the Morton, and the one that is=
=20
supposed to ride along a straight edge never did go straight.  I have=
n't=20
used it yet, but the circle cutter that came as an adjunct to my Taur=
us=20
Ring Saw looks nice. - Cec

Becker, Donna DF125031-at-teradata-ncr.com |Bungier/1.0-Allow| wrote:

>I thought we had a thread on this once, but I couldn't find it.  I'm=
 going
>to buy one, and I'd like to find out which one you all would recomme=
nd or
>not recommend.  I can't live any more without one!
>
>Thank You!!!
>
>Thanks,
>Donna Becker
>Senior Consultant II
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> =20
>

--=20
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood=20
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************



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From owner-glass Fri May 16 10:09:17 2003
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X-Path: yahoo.com!the1glassman
From: S Clayman <the1glassman@yahoo.com>
To: "Becker, Donna" <DF125031@teradata-ncr.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: Strip and Circle Cutter Recommendation
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@teradata>>
Precedence: bulk

Donna,
  I have an Inland strip and circle cutter, the old
type that has the cutter head on it. I like it but I
have also used the Fletcher and that one has a suction
for the circle cutter. I like the inland for straight
edges but have modified it somewhat.

I have taken a piece of plywood, say 24 X 36 and put a
long square metal tube 1/2 X 1/2 along the bottom.
Just to the inside of that I have a metal square. The
square will then give me sizes both horizontal and
vertical. 

I then used the inland straight cutter along the edge
of the metal square tube and I am able to cut straight
edges. If I am not making my self clear please let me
know and I can take a digital picture and send it to
you.

The problem with the inland stright cutter is that the
piece that connects the arm and the straight edge can
wobble if not tightened and moved along the straight
edge smothly. I have seen people make them out of
metal and sodier them together.

The new inland cutter is a little different. It does
not have a cutting head in it. It allows you to put in
your pencil cutter, or a pencil, or even an exacto
knife so it give you more options for cutting and
drawing.

The Morton I use for angles.

Stuart
--- "Becker, Donna" <DF125031@teradata-ncr.com> wrote:
> I thought we had a thread on this once, but I
> couldn't find it.  I'm going
> to buy one, and I'd like to find out which one you
> all would recommend or
> not recommend.  I can't live any more without one!
> 
> Thank You!!!
> 
> Thanks,
> Donna Becker
> Senior Consultant II
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to:
> glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Fri May 16 10:09:50 2003
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Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:18:47 -0500
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Bonjour,

Le premier magazine qu=E9b=E9cois en fran=E7ais, sp=E9cialis=E9 sur les au=
tos am=E9ricaines classiques et modifi=E9es vient de para=EEtre=2E

Pour plus d'information: www=2Ev8passion=2Ecom

Sinc=E8res salutations
Fabrice Monceaux

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From owner-glass Fri May 16 21:09:42 2003
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X-Path: peak.org!inhockdeep
From: "InHockDeep" <inhockdeep@peak.org>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: scrap glass on YAHOO/ pertinent spam
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:53:19 -0700
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76016564

type in number in advances search or search for scrap stained glass

not many bidders or other listings....

perhaps a bargain there!

will also answer lamp making questions...if I do not know the answer, I =
can always make up something interesting <g>

at least this "spam" is pertinent and acceptable in small slices......

enjoy

h

also have some of my 8 armed pets on a photo host site if anyone (who =
even remembers) is interested.=20


To Email Howard ONLY USE: inhockdeep@peak.org

TO SEE MY SHADES: http://home.teleport.com/~weaver51/lamps

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>76016564</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">type in number in advances search or =
search for=20
scrap stained glass</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">not many bidders or other=20
listings....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">perhaps a bargain there!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">will also answer lamp making =
questions...if I do=20
not know the answer, I can always make up something interesting=20
&lt;g&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">at least this "spam" is pertinent and =
acceptable=20
in small slices......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">enjoy</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">h</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">also have some of my 8 armed pets on a =
photo=20
host site if anyone (who even remembers)&nbsp;is =
interested.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">To Email Howard ONLY USE: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:inhockdeep@peak.org">inhockdeep@peak.org</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">TO SEE MY SHADES: <A=20
href=3D"http://home.teleport.com/~weaver51/lamps">http://home.teleport.co=
m/~weaver51/lamps</A><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun May 18 06:12:03 2003
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From owner-glass Sun May 18 09:09:29 2003
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Subject: spam from "Jesse Womack" <jw_doyy@hotmail.com> MOVIES
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I am not happy about this!!!!!

any options to BLOCK this before it gets to me!

howard



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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I am not happy about =
this!!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">any options to BLOCK this before it =
gets to=20
me!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">howard</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun May 18 10:08:33 2003
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X-Path: lvcm.com!ejr929
From: "Ed Rogers" <ejr929@lvcm.com>
To: "InHockDeep" <inhockdeep@peak.org>, "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: spam from "Jesse Womack" <jw_doyy@hotmail.com> MOVIES
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 09:55:47 -0700
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Don't be so naive.  Spam is, unfortunately, a way of life now, and will =
be so for years to come, despite all the programs and government efforts =
to curtail it.  Just learn to use your Delete key . . .

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
E-mail from Ed Rogers
ejr929@LVCM.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: InHockDeep=20
  To: bungi=20
  Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 8:12 AM
  Subject: spam from "Jesse Womack" <jw_doyy@hotmail.com> MOVIES


  I am not happy about this!!!!!

  any options to BLOCK this before it gets to me!

  howard



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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000080>Don't be so naive.&nbsp; Spam is,=20
unfortunately, a way of life now, and will be so for years to come, =
despite all=20
the programs and government efforts to curtail it.&nbsp; Just learn to =
use your=20
Delete key . . .</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT =
color=3D#000080>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR=
>E-mail from Ed=20
Rogers<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:ejr929@LVCM.com">ejr929@LVCM.com</A><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dinhockdeep@peak.org =
href=3D"mailto:inhockdeep@peak.org">InHockDeep</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dglass@bungi.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">bungi</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 18, 2003 8:12 =
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> spam from "Jesse =
Womack" &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:jw_doyy@hotmail.com">jw_doyy@hotmail.com</A>&gt; =
MOVIES</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I am not happy about =
this!!!!!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">any options to BLOCK this before it =
gets to=20
  me!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">howard</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun May 18 11:10:27 2003
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X-Path: mweb.co.za!quantotech
From: "CodeMasterz" <quantotech@mweb.co.za>
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Subject: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 10:59:00 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@mweb.co.za>
Precedence: bulk

Hi there all,

I was just wondering. Is there a special way of applying copper
patina in order to get the best results. I simply clean my work
as decently as possible (using soap and lots of water), then dry
the project, apply the patina, and then giving it one final
clean. Is this the best way or not?

Anyway, hope everyone is having great fun with their projects.

Edgar Rowe

----
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From owner-glass Sun May 18 13:10:14 2003
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 2003 12:32:39 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #539 built 2003-May-13)
X-Path: hot.rr.com!pkelly
From: "Patrick Kelly" <pkelly@hot.rr.com>
To: "'bungi'" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: RE: spam from "Jesse Womack" <jw_doyy@hotmail.com> MOVIES
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 14:26:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@hot.rr.com>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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If you are using Microsoft Outlook, go to the Tools drop down menu and
make a rule. Follow the directions and delete it permanently prior to
reading.... It works great.  
 
I don't give these idiots or zealots the courtesy of even telling them
what they can do with their ideology or products.
 
Patrick 




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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D860172019-18052003>If you=20
are using Microsoft Outlook, go to the Tools drop down menu and make a =
rule.=20
Follow the directions and delete it permanently prior to reading.... It =
works=20
great.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D860172019-18052003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D860172019-18052003>I=20
don't give these idiots or zealots the courtesy of even telling them =
what they=20
can do with their ideology or products.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D860172019-18052003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D860172019-18052003>Patrick&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun May 18 14:09:33 2003
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 2003 13:58:30 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #539 built 2003-May-13)
X-Path: ptdprolog.net!suzi1025
From: suzanne albright <suzi1025@ptdprolog.net>
To: Stained Glass List <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 16:57:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@ptdprolog.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@mweb.co.za>>
Precedence: bulk

Here's my "special recipe."

After cleaning the project I wax it with either Kem-o-Pro or Ultimate. I wax
it over and over (5 or 6 times), each time you get more black out of the
solder lines. I was told that is "getting the lead out," literally.

When it's waxed near to death, I apply the copper patina. I pour some in a
cup, put on a glove, take a soft paper towel, immerse it into the patina
until it soaks it all up. I rub vigorously over all the solder lines until
it comes up really shiny.

Then I wipe it off gently, and wax again. It works beautifully!

> on 5/18/03 4:59 AM, CodeMasterz at quantotech@mweb.co.za wrote:

> Hi there all,
> 
> I was just wondering. Is there a special way of applying copper
> patina in order to get the best results. I simply clean my work
> as decently as possible (using soap and lots of water), then dry
> the project, apply the patina, and then giving it one final
> clean. Is this the best way or not?
> 
> Anyway, hope everyone is having great fun with their projects.
> 
> Edgar Rowe
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

----
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From owner-glass Sun May 18 16:10:39 2003
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #539 built 2003-May-13)
X-Path: shaw.ca!henco
From: Darlene Hendler <henco@shaw.ca>
To: suzanne albright <suzi1025@ptdprolog.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:10:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@shaw.ca>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@ptdprolog.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Suzanne,

I never heard  of putting the patina on AFTER the wax. I thought it was supposed
to be before the wax. What kind of results do you get?

Darlene

suzanne albright wrote:

> Here's my "special recipe."
>
> After cleaning the project I wax it with either Kem-o-Pro or Ultimate. I wax
> it over and over (5 or 6 times), each time you get more black out of the
> solder lines. I was told that is "getting the lead out," literally.
>
> When it's waxed near to death, I apply the copper patina. I pour some in a
> cup, put on a glove, take a soft paper towel, immerse it into the patina
> until it soaks it all up. I rub vigorously over all the solder lines until
> it comes up really shiny.
>
> Then I wipe it off gently, and wax again. It works beautifully!
>
> > on 5/18/03 4:59 AM, CodeMasterz at quantotech@mweb.co.za wrote:
>
> > Hi there all,
> >
> > I was just wondering. Is there a special way of applying copper
> > patina in order to get the best results. I simply clean my work
> > as decently as possible (using soap and lots of water), then dry
> > the project, apply the patina, and then giving it one final
> > clean. Is this the best way or not?
> >
> > Anyway, hope everyone is having great fun with their projects.
> >
> > Edgar Rowe
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Mon May 19 06:09:55 2003
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 08:58:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

I would have to ask the same thing.

Seems to me, that putting the wax on first applies a protective coating over the came so that nothing could contact with the came. Hence, the patina (which needs to interact with the lead or zinc) would not be able to do it's job...?

I have always cleaned, patinaed and then waxed.

Have I been doing it wrong?

Cheryl in NJ




In a message dated 5/18/2003 5:10:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, henco@shaw.ca writes:

> Hi Suzanne,
> 
> I never heard  of putting the patina on AFTER the wax. I 
> thought it was supposed
> to be before the wax. What kind of results do you get?
> 
> Darlene
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From owner-glass Mon May 19 07:08:45 2003
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:47:12 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #539 built 2003-May-13)
X-Path: attbi.com!jerryc34
From: Jerry <jerryc34@attbi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:35:07 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@attbi.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@ptdprolog.net>>
Precedence: bulk

I got a great tip from my local glass shop that's never failed me with
copper patina. I'd almost given up on using copper patina because it always
looked like crap until I got this tip.

When you're finished, wash your project with HOT water and ammonia. Scrub it
good (I use those Copper Brite pads for use in the kitchen) and dry well.
You need to clean your soldering to be as bright and shiny as possible.

Use 100% COTTON balls. Not the synthetic cosmetic things or a rag...100%
cotton balls. 

Apply  your patina with the cotton ball and rub till you get the look you
like. I usually go over mine twice.

DON'T wash it again, the water has a tendency to react with the patina. Use
Windex or Cinch or something like that to clean any patina off the glass.

Now just apply your Kem-O-Pro or whatever you like to wax your projects.

HTH...

Jerry

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From owner-glass Mon May 19 13:08:25 2003
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 11:21:54 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk



> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 1:57 PM
> To: Stained Glass List
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Here's my "special recipe."
> 
> After cleaning the project I wax it with either Kem-o-Pro or 
> Ultimate. I wax
> it over and over (5 or 6 times), each time you get more black 
> out of the
> solder lines. I was told that is "getting the lead out," literally.

doubtful. at 40-50% lead, you'd have to remove a lot of metal with a rag!

> When it's waxed near to death, I apply the copper patina. I 
> pour some in a
> cup, put on a glove, take a soft paper towel, immerse it into 
> the patina
> until it soaks it all up. I rub vigorously over all the 
> solder lines until
> it comes up really shiny.
> 
> Then I wipe it off gently, and wax again. It works beautifully!

this is the first time i've heard about waxing before. i would think that
this would prevent the patina from reacting with the solder in places.

i solder, clean well with detergent and backing soda, dry, use steel or
bronze wool, clean well, and patina. the wool creates a larger surface area
on the solder, leaving more places for the copper to plate out of solution
onto the solder.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> > on 5/18/03 4:59 AM, CodeMasterz at quantotech@mweb.co.za wrote:
> 
> > Hi there all,
> > 
> > I was just wondering. Is there a special way of applying copper
> > patina in order to get the best results. I simply clean my work
> > as decently as possible (using soap and lots of water), then dry
> > the project, apply the patina, and then giving it one final
> > clean. Is this the best way or not?
> > 
> > Anyway, hope everyone is having great fun with their projects.
> > 
> > Edgar Rowe
> > 
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
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From owner-glass Mon May 19 16:08:10 2003
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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_179.1a8c1494.2bfab64a_boundary"
Subject: Fwd: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 18:35:54 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk


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I just finished a class and the instructor told us to always use steel wool 
to shine the came or solder.  It takes the tarnish off leaving a clean 
surface for the patina. This has worked for me and I get a nice copper 
finish.

--part1_179.1a8c1494.2bfab64a_alt_boundary
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">I just finished a class and the instructor told us to=20=
always use steel wool to shine the came or solder.&nbsp; It takes the tarnis=
h off leaving a clean surface for the patina. This has worked for me and I g=
et a nice copper finish.<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 11:21:54 -0700
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 1:57 PM
> To: Stained Glass List
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Here's my "special recipe."
> 
> After cleaning the project I wax it with either Kem-o-Pro or 
> Ultimate. I wax
> it over and over (5 or 6 times), each time you get more black 
> out of the
> solder lines. I was told that is "getting the lead out," literally.

doubtful. at 40-50% lead, you'd have to remove a lot of metal with a rag!

> When it's waxed near to death, I apply the copper patina. I 
> pour some in a
> cup, put on a glove, take a soft paper towel, immerse it into 
> the patina
> until it soaks it all up. I rub vigorously over all the 
> solder lines until
> it comes up really shiny.
> 
> Then I wipe it off gently, and wax again. It works beautifully!

this is the first time i've heard about waxing before. i would think that
this would prevent the patina from reacting with the solder in places.

i solder, clean well with detergent and backing soda, dry, use steel or
bronze wool, clean well, and patina. the wool creates a larger surface area
on the solder, leaving more places for the copper to plate out of solution
onto the solder.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> > on 5/18/03 4:59 AM, CodeMasterz at quantotech@mweb.co.za wrote:
> 
> > Hi there all,
> > 
> > I was just wondering. Is there a special way of applying copper
> > patina in order to get the best results. I simply clean my work
> > as decently as possible (using soap and lots of water), then dry
> > the project, apply the patina, and then giving it one final
> > clean. Is this the best way or not?
> > 
> > Anyway, hope everyone is having great fun with their projects.
> > 
> > Edgar Rowe
> > 
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon May 19 23:08:10 2003
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X-Path: ptdprolog.net!suzi1025
From: suzanne albright <suzi1025@ptdprolog.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 02:04:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@ptdprolog.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

All I can say is try it!

Suzanne

on 5/19/03 6:35 PM, StarliteDreamr02@aol.com at StarliteDreamr02@aol.com
wrote:

> I just finished a class and the instructor told us to always use steel wool
> to shine the came or solder.  It takes the tarnish off leaving a clean
> surface for the patina. This has worked for me and I get a nice copper
> finish.
> 
> From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
> Date: Monday, May 19, 2003 2:21 PM
> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
> Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
>> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 1:57 PM
>> To: Stained Glass List
>> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
>> 
>> 
>> Here's my "special recipe."
>> 
>> After cleaning the project I wax it with either Kem-o-Pro or
>> Ultimate. I wax
>> it over and over (5 or 6 times), each time you get more black
>> out of the
>> solder lines. I was told that is "getting the lead out," literally.
> 
> doubtful. at 40-50% lead, you'd have to remove a lot of metal with a rag!
> 
>> When it's waxed near to death, I apply the copper patina. I
>> pour some in a
>> cup, put on a glove, take a soft paper towel, immerse it into
>> the patina
>> until it soaks it all up. I rub vigorously over all the
>> solder lines until
>> it comes up really shiny.
>> 
>> Then I wipe it off gently, and wax again. It works beautifully!
> 
> this is the first time i've heard about waxing before. i would think that
> this would prevent the patina from reacting with the solder in places.
> 
> i solder, clean well with detergent and backing soda, dry, use steel or
> bronze wool, clean well, and patina. the wool creates a larger surface area
> on the solder, leaving more places for the copper to plate out of solution
> onto the solder.
> 
> regards,
> charlie
> cave creek, az
> 
>>> on 5/18/03 4:59 AM, CodeMasterz at quantotech@mweb.co.za wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi there all,
>>> 
>>> I was just wondering. Is there a special way of applying copper
>>> patina in order to get the best results. I simply clean my work
>>> as decently as possible (using soap and lots of water), then dry
>>> the project, apply the patina, and then giving it one final
>>> clean. Is this the best way or not?
>>> 
>>> Anyway, hope everyone is having great fun with their projects.
>>> 
>>> Edgar Rowe
>>> 
>>> ----
>>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>> 
>> 
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Mon May 19 23:08:25 2003
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From: suzanne albright <suzi1025@ptdprolog.net>
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 02:07:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@ptdprolog.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@attbi.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy some & try it.
It must beat paper towels.

Suzanne

on 5/19/03 9:35 AM, Jerry at jerryc34@attbi.com wrote:

> I got a great tip from my local glass shop that's never failed me with
> copper patina. I'd almost given up on using copper patina because it always
> looked like crap until I got this tip.
> 
> When you're finished, wash your project with HOT water and ammonia. Scrub it
> good (I use those Copper Brite pads for use in the kitchen) and dry well.
> You need to clean your soldering to be as bright and shiny as possible.
> 
> Use 100% COTTON balls. Not the synthetic cosmetic things or a rag...100%
> cotton balls. 
> 
> Apply  your patina with the cotton ball and rub till you get the look you
> like. I usually go over mine twice.
> 
> DON'T wash it again, the water has a tendency to react with the patina. Use
> Windex or Cinch or something like that to clean any patina off the glass.
> 
> Now just apply your Kem-O-Pro or whatever you like to wax your projects.
> 
> HTH...
> 
> Jerry
> 
> ----
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> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Tue May 20 07:10:58 2003
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X-Path: yahoo.com!sparkylynne
From: Lynne Black <sparkylynne@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Bungi: Pataina washing?
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 06:14:19 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@ptdprolog.net>>
Precedence: bulk

So, in regard to patinas in general, would you
recommend not washing after applying at all?  

Lynne

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From owner-glass Tue May 20 09:08:31 2003
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Pataina washing?
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:53:06 -0400
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>
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On 5/20/03 9:14 AM, "Lynne Black"  wrote:

> So, in regard to patinas in general, would you
> recommend not washing after applying at all?


I don't know what the others do and being self taught I probably have bad
habits but I do NOT wash my project after applying copper patina. The water
has a tendency to react with it and make it look terrible. From what I've
read, it seems the copper patina is much less volatile than the black. It
won't stain your glass like the black will.

If I use the black patina, I DO wash it again lightly as I'm always afraid
it will stain the glass and it seems to be a lot more harsh than the copper.
I'll just use something like Dawn dishwashing liquid and a sponge to get the
patina of the glass. Then dry & wax it.

Just what works for me tho I'm interested in what other have to say.

Jerry

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From owner-glass Tue May 20 10:08:07 2003
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 11:00:28 2003
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
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Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 13:08:24 2003
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Pataina washing?
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:53:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@attbi.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>>
Precedence: bulk

On 5/20/03 9:14 AM, "Lynne Black"  wrote:

> So, in regard to patinas in general, would you
> recommend not washing after applying at all?


I don't know what the others do and being self taught I probably have bad
habits but I do NOT wash my project after applying copper patina. The water
has a tendency to react with it and make it look terrible. From what I've
read, it seems the copper patina is much less volatile than the black. It
won't stain your glass like the black will.

If I use the black patina, I DO wash it again lightly as I'm always afraid
it will stain the glass and it seems to be a lot more harsh than the copper.
I'll just use something like Dawn dishwashing liquid and a sponge to get the
patina of the glass. Then dry & wax it.

Just what works for me tho I'm interested in what other have to say.

Jerry

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From owner-glass Tue May 20 14:09:36 2003
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
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Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 17:08:24 2003
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From: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>
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Subject: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:11:00 -0400
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I have gotten some really helpful advice from you all regarding copper
patina.  However, even if my copper patina comes out well on my solder
joints, it still does not begin to turn the lead came copper.  Any
suggestions?  Thanks, Carol Boyette

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D430370823-20052003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have =
gotten some=20
really helpful advice from you all regarding copper patina.&nbsp; =
However, even=20
if my copper patina comes out well on my solder joints, it still does =
not begin=20
to turn the lead came copper.&nbsp; Any suggestions?&nbsp; Thanks, Carol =

Boyette</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue May 20 18:08:37 2003
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Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:51:42 -0400
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I'm reluctant to say this but after lurking for months, and biting my =
tongue for fear of being accused of self-promotion, I felt it only =
appropriate to cut and paste a tech article I wrote on the process of =
patinaing here to the betterment of my fellow craftsperson.. So,  here =
goes (but please be gentle with your criticisms and excuse any percieved =
errors of spelling- remember we canadians do spell color with an extra =
u, etc)- here goes-

THE FINAL FINISH -OR TO PATINA OR NOT TO PATINA
THE LOOK
    Your copper foil project is never quite finished until it's been =
cleaned, maybe patinaed and finally waxed. Then it comes unto itself and =
takes on its own character adding definition and sparkle to the glass =
and framework. But, oh, what a tangled web it seems the final finish =
becomes.=20
    Why won't the black patina go black? Why is the copper all blotchy =
and dirty looking? Why does the glass have a halo or etched look next to =
the foil lines? Why are my fingers all smelly and brown? (Well, maybe =
we'll get a hygienist in for that one)
    Black, copper or slie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 13:08:24 2003
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Pataina washing?
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:53:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@attbi.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>>
Precedence: bulk

On 5/20/03 9:14 AM, "Lynne Black"  wrote:

> So, in regard to patinas in general, would you
> recommend not washing after applying at all?


I don't know what the others do and being self taught I probably have bad
habits but I do NOT wash my project after applying copper patina. The water
has a tendency to react with it and make it look terrible. From what I've
read, it seems the copper patina is much less volatile than the black. It
won't stain your glass like the black will.

If I use the black patina, I DO wash it again lightly as I'm always afraid
it will stain the glass and it seems to be a lot more harsh than the copper.
I'll just use something like Dawn dishwashing liquid and a sponge to get the
patina of the glass. Then dry & wax it.

Just what works for me tho I'm interested in what other have to say.

Jerry

----
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----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 14:09:36 2003
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 17:08:24 2003
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From: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:11:00 -0400
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I have gotten some really helpful advice from you all regarding copper
patina.  However, even if my copper patina comes out well on my solder
joints, it still does not begin to turn the lead came copper.  Any
suggestions?  Thanks, Carol Boyette

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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D430370823-20052003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have =
gotten some=20
really helpful advice from you all regarding copper patina.&nbsp; =
However, even=20
if my copper patina comes out well on my solder joints, it still does =
not begin=20
to turn the lead came copper.&nbsp; Any suggestions?&nbsp; Thanks, Carol =

Boyette</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue May 20 18:08:37 2003
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From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@look.ca>
To: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:51:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@look.ca>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@verizon.net>>
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I'm reluctant to say this but after lurking for months, and biting my =
tongue for fear of being accused of self-promotion, I felt it only =
appropriate to cut and paste a tech article I wrote on the process of =
patinaing here to the betterment of my fellow craftsperson.. So,  here =
goes (but please be gentle with your criticisms and excuse any percieved =
errors of spelling- remember we canadians do spell color with an extra =
u, etc)- here goes-

THE FINAL FINISH -OR TO PATINA OR NOT TO PATINA
THE LOOK
    Your copper foil project is never quite finished until it's been =
cleaned, maybe patinaed and finally waxed. Then it comes unto itself and =
takes on its own character adding definition and sparkle to the glass =
and framework. But, oh, what a tangled web it seems the final finish =
becomes.=20
    Why won't the black patina go black? Why is the copper all blotchy =
and dirty looking? Why does the glass have a halo or etched look next to =
the foil lines? Why are my fingers all smelly and brown? (Well, maybe =
we'll get a hygienist in for that one)
    Black, copper or slie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 13:08:24 2003
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #539 built 2003-May-13)
X-Path: attbi.com!jerryc34
From: Jerry <jerryc34@attbi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Pataina washing?
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:53:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@attbi.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>>
Precedence: bulk

On 5/20/03 9:14 AM, "Lynne Black"  wrote:

> So, in regard to patinas in general, would you
> recommend not washing after applying at all?


I don't know what the others do and being self taught I probably have bad
habits but I do NOT wash my project after applying copper patina. The water
has a tendency to react with it and make it look terrible. From what I've
read, it seems the copper patina is much less volatile than the black. It
won't stain your glass like the black will.

If I use the black patina, I DO wash it again lightly as I'm always afraid
it will stain the glass and it seems to be a lot more harsh than the copper.
I'll just use something like Dawn dishwashing liquid and a sponge to get the
patina of the glass. Then dry & wax it.

Just what works for me tho I'm interested in what other have to say.

Jerry

----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 14:09:36 2003
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 17:08:24 2003
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From: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0"
Subject: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:11:00 -0400
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------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0
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I have gotten some really helpful advice from you all regarding copper
patina.  However, even if my copper patina comes out well on my solder
joints, it still does not begin to turn the lead came copper.  Any
suggestions?  Thanks, Carol Boyette

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D430370823-20052003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have =
gotten some=20
really helpful advice from you all regarding copper patina.&nbsp; =
However, even=20
if my copper patina comes out well on my solder joints, it still does =
not begin=20
to turn the lead came copper.&nbsp; Any suggestions?&nbsp; Thanks, Carol =

Boyette</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0--

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From owner-glass Tue May 20 18:08:37 2003
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X-Path: look.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@look.ca>
To: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
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	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C31F11.9E25AC40"
Subject: Re: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:51:42 -0400
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@verizon.net>>
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I'm reluctant to say this but after lurking for months, and biting my =
tongue for fear of being accused of self-promotion, I felt it only =
appropriate to cut and paste a tech article I wrote on the process of =
patinaing here to the betterment of my fellow craftsperson.. So,  here =
goes (but please be gentle with your criticisms and excuse any percieved =
errors of spelling- remember we canadians do spell color with an extra =
u, etc)- here goes-

THE FINAL FINISH -OR TO PATINA OR NOT TO PATINA
THE LOOK
    Your copper foil project is never quite finished until it's been =
cleaned, maybe patinaed and finally waxed. Then it comes unto itself and =
takes on its own character adding definition and sparkle to the glass =
and framework. But, oh, what a tangled web it seems the final finish =
becomes.=20
    Why won't the black patina go black? Why is the copper all blotchy =
and dirty looking? Why does the glass have a halo or etched look next to =
the foil lines? Why are my fingers all smelly and brown? (Well, maybe =
we'll get a hygienist in for that one)
    Black, copper or slie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 13:08:24 2003
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X-Path: attbi.com!jerryc34
From: Jerry <jerryc34@attbi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Pataina washing?
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:53:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@attbi.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>>
Precedence: bulk

On 5/20/03 9:14 AM, "Lynne Black"  wrote:

> So, in regard to patinas in general, would you
> recommend not washing after applying at all?


I don't know what the others do and being self taught I probably have bad
habits but I do NOT wash my project after applying copper patina. The water
has a tendency to react with it and make it look terrible. From what I've
read, it seems the copper patina is much less volatile than the black. It
won't stain your glass like the black will.

If I use the black patina, I DO wash it again lightly as I'm always afraid
it will stain the glass and it seems to be a lot more harsh than the copper.
I'll just use something like Dawn dishwashing liquid and a sponge to get the
patina of the glass. Then dry & wax it.

Just what works for me tho I'm interested in what other have to say.

Jerry

----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 14:09:36 2003
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 17:08:24 2003
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I have gotten some really helpful advice from you all regarding copper
patina.  However, even if my copper patina comes out well on my solder
joints, it still does not begin to turn the lead came copper.  Any
suggestions?  Thanks, Carol Boyette

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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D430370823-20052003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have =
gotten some=20
really helpful advice from you all regarding copper patina.&nbsp; =
However, even=20
if my copper patina comes out well on my solder joints, it still does =
not begin=20
to turn the lead came copper.&nbsp; Any suggestions?&nbsp; Thanks, Carol =

Boyette</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue May 20 18:08:37 2003
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Subject: Re: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:51:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@look.ca>
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I'm reluctant to say this but after lurking for months, and biting my =
tongue for fear of being accused of self-promotion, I felt it only =
appropriate to cut and paste a tech article I wrote on the process of =
patinaing here to the betterment of my fellow craftsperson.. So,  here =
goes (but please be gentle with your criticisms and excuse any percieved =
errors of spelling- remember we canadians do spell color with an extra =
u, etc)- here goes-

THE FINAL FINISH -OR TO PATINA OR NOT TO PATINA
THE LOOK
    Your copper foil project is never quite finished until it's been =
cleaned, maybe patinaed and finally waxed. Then it comes unto itself and =
takes on its own character adding definition and sparkle to the glass =
and framework. But, oh, what a tangled web it seems the final finish =
becomes.=20
    Why won't the black patina go black? Why is the copper all blotchy =
and dirty looking? Why does the glass have a halo or etched look next to =
the foil lines? Why are my fingers all smelly and brown? (Well, maybe =
we'll get a hygienist in for that one)
    Black, copper or slie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 13:08:24 2003
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From: Jerry <jerryc34@attbi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Pataina washing?
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:53:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@attbi.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>>
Precedence: bulk

On 5/20/03 9:14 AM, "Lynne Black"  wrote:

> So, in regard to patinas in general, would you
> recommend not washing after applying at all?


I don't know what the others do and being self taught I probably have bad
habits but I do NOT wash my project after applying copper patina. The water
has a tendency to react with it and make it look terrible. From what I've
read, it seems the copper patina is much less volatile than the black. It
won't stain your glass like the black will.

If I use the black patina, I DO wash it again lightly as I'm always afraid
it will stain the glass and it seems to be a lot more harsh than the copper.
I'll just use something like Dawn dishwashing liquid and a sponge to get the
patina of the glass. Then dry & wax it.

Just what works for me tho I'm interested in what other have to say.

Jerry

----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 14:09:36 2003
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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From: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>
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Subject: copper patina
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I have gotten some really helpful advice from you all regarding copper
patina.  However, even if my copper patina comes out well on my solder
joints, it still does not begin to turn the lead came copper.  Any
suggestions?  Thanks, Carol Boyette

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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D430370823-20052003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have =
gotten some=20
really helpful advice from you all regarding copper patina.&nbsp; =
However, even=20
if my copper patina comes out well on my solder joints, it still does =
not begin=20
to turn the lead came copper.&nbsp; Any suggestions?&nbsp; Thanks, Carol =

Boyette</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue May 20 18:08:37 2003
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From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@look.ca>
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Subject: Re: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:51:42 -0400
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I'm reluctant to say this but after lurking for months, and biting my =
tongue for fear of being accused of self-promotion, I felt it only =
appropriate to cut and paste a tech article I wrote on the process of =
patinaing here to the betterment of my fellow craftsperson.. So,  here =
goes (but please be gentle with your criticisms and excuse any percieved =
errors of spelling- remember we canadians do spell color with an extra =
u, etc)- here goes-

THE FINAL FINISH -OR TO PATINA OR NOT TO PATINA
THE LOOK
    Your copper foil project is never quite finished until it's been =
cleaned, maybe patinaed and finally waxed. Then it comes unto itself and =
takes on its own character adding definition and sparkle to the glass =
and framework. But, oh, what a tangled web it seems the final finish =
becomes.=20
    Why won't the black patina go black? Why is the copper all blotchy =
and dirty looking? Why does the glass have a halo or etched look next to =
the foil lines? Why are my fingers all smelly and brown? (Well, maybe =
we'll get a hygienist in for that one)
    Black, copper or slie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 13:08:24 2003
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X-Path: attbi.com!jerryc34
From: Jerry <jerryc34@attbi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: Bungi: Pataina washing?
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:53:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@attbi.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>>
Precedence: bulk

On 5/20/03 9:14 AM, "Lynne Black"  wrote:

> So, in regard to patinas in general, would you
> recommend not washing after applying at all?


I don't know what the others do and being self taught I probably have bad
habits but I do NOT wash my project after applying copper patina. The water
has a tendency to react with it and make it look terrible. From what I've
read, it seems the copper patina is much less volatile than the black. It
won't stain your glass like the black will.

If I use the black patina, I DO wash it again lightly as I'm always afraid
it will stain the glass and it seems to be a lot more harsh than the copper.
I'll just use something like Dawn dishwashing liquid and a sponge to get the
patina of the glass. Then dry & wax it.

Just what works for me tho I'm interested in what other have to say.

Jerry

----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 14:09:36 2003
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 17:08:24 2003
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From: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>
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Subject: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:11:00 -0400
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------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0
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I have gotten some really helpful advice from you all regarding copper
patina.  However, even if my copper patina comes out well on my solder
joints, it still does not begin to turn the lead came copper.  Any
suggestions?  Thanks, Carol Boyette

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D430370823-20052003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have =
gotten some=20
really helpful advice from you all regarding copper patina.&nbsp; =
However, even=20
if my copper patina comes out well on my solder joints, it still does =
not begin=20
to turn the lead came copper.&nbsp; Any suggestions?&nbsp; Thanks, Carol =

Boyette</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0--

----
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X-Path: look.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@look.ca>
To: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
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	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C31F11.9E25AC40"
Subject: Re: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:51:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@look.ca>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@verizon.net>>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C31F11.9E25AC40
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm reluctant to say this but after lurking for months, and biting my =
tongue for fear of being accused of self-promotion, I felt it only =
appropriate to cut and paste a tech article I wrote on the process of =
patinaing here to the betterment of my fellow craftsperson.. So,  here =
goes (but please be gentle with your criticisms and excuse any percieved =
errors of spelling- remember we canadians do spell color with an extra =
u, etc)- here goes-

THE FINAL FINISH -OR TO PATINA OR NOT TO PATINA
THE LOOK
    Your copper foil project is never quite finished until it's been =
cleaned, maybe patinaed and finally waxed. Then it comes unto itself and =
takes on its own character adding definition and sparkle to the glass =
and framework. But, oh, what a tangled web it seems the final finish =
becomes.=20
    Why won't the black patina go black? Why is the copper all blotchy =
and dirty looking? Why does the glass have a halo or etched look next to =
the foil lines? Why are my fingers all smelly and brown? (Well, maybe =
we'll get a hygienist in for that one)
    Black, copper or slie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 13:08:24 2003
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X-Path: attbi.com!jerryc34
From: Jerry <jerryc34@attbi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Pataina washing?
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:53:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@attbi.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>>
Precedence: bulk

On 5/20/03 9:14 AM, "Lynne Black"  wrote:

> So, in regard to patinas in general, would you
> recommend not washing after applying at all?


I don't know what the others do and being self taught I probably have bad
habits but I do NOT wash my project after applying copper patina. The water
has a tendency to react with it and make it look terrible. From what I've
read, it seems the copper patina is much less volatile than the black. It
won't stain your glass like the black will.

If I use the black patina, I DO wash it again lightly as I'm always afraid
it will stain the glass and it seems to be a lot more harsh than the copper.
I'll just use something like Dawn dishwashing liquid and a sponge to get the
patina of the glass. Then dry & wax it.

Just what works for me tho I'm interested in what other have to say.

Jerry

----
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
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Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 17:08:24 2003
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From: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>
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Subject: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:11:00 -0400
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I have gotten some really helpful advice from you all regarding copper
patina.  However, even if my copper patina comes out well on my solder
joints, it still does not begin to turn the lead came copper.  Any
suggestions?  Thanks, Carol Boyette

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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D430370823-20052003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have =
gotten some=20
really helpful advice from you all regarding copper patina.&nbsp; =
However, even=20
if my copper patina comes out well on my solder joints, it still does =
not begin=20
to turn the lead came copper.&nbsp; Any suggestions?&nbsp; Thanks, Carol =

Boyette</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue May 20 18:08:37 2003
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From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@look.ca>
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Subject: Re: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:51:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@look.ca>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@verizon.net>>
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I'm reluctant to say this but after lurking for months, and biting my =
tongue for fear of being accused of self-promotion, I felt it only =
appropriate to cut and paste a tech article I wrote on the process of =
patinaing here to the betterment of my fellow craftsperson.. So,  here =
goes (but please be gentle with your criticisms and excuse any percieved =
errors of spelling- remember we canadians do spell color with an extra =
u, etc)- here goes-

THE FINAL FINISH -OR TO PATINA OR NOT TO PATINA
THE LOOK
    Your copper foil project is never quite finished until it's been =
cleaned, maybe patinaed and finally waxed. Then it comes unto itself and =
takes on its own character adding definition and sparkle to the glass =
and framework. But, oh, what a tangled web it seems the final finish =
becomes.=20
    Why won't the black patina go black? Why is the copper all blotchy =
and dirty looking? Why does the glass have a halo or etched look next to =
the foil lines? Why are my fingers all smelly and brown? (Well, maybe =
we'll get a hygienist in for that one)
    Black, copper or slie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 13:08:24 2003
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From: Jerry <jerryc34@attbi.com>
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Subject: Re: Bungi: Pataina washing?
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:53:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@attbi.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>>
Precedence: bulk

On 5/20/03 9:14 AM, "Lynne Black"  wrote:

> So, in regard to patinas in general, would you
> recommend not washing after applying at all?


I don't know what the others do and being self taught I probably have bad
habits but I do NOT wash my project after applying copper patina. The water
has a tendency to react with it and make it look terrible. From what I've
read, it seems the copper patina is much less volatile than the black. It
won't stain your glass like the black will.

If I use the black patina, I DO wash it again lightly as I'm always afraid
it will stain the glass and it seems to be a lot more harsh than the copper.
I'll just use something like Dawn dishwashing liquid and a sponge to get the
patina of the glass. Then dry & wax it.

Just what works for me tho I'm interested in what other have to say.

Jerry

----
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----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 14:09:36 2003
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 17:08:24 2003
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From: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>
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Subject: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:11:00 -0400
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I have gotten some really helpful advice from you all regarding copper
patina.  However, even if my copper patina comes out well on my solder
joints, it still does not begin to turn the lead came copper.  Any
suggestions?  Thanks, Carol Boyette

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0
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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D430370823-20052003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have =
gotten some=20
really helpful advice from you all regarding copper patina.&nbsp; =
However, even=20
if my copper patina comes out well on my solder joints, it still does =
not begin=20
to turn the lead came copper.&nbsp; Any suggestions?&nbsp; Thanks, Carol =

Boyette</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue May 20 18:08:37 2003
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X-Path: look.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@look.ca>
To: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C31F11.9E25AC40"
Subject: Re: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:51:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@look.ca>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@verizon.net>>
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I'm reluctant to say this but after lurking for months, and biting my =
tongue for fear of being accused of self-promotion, I felt it only =
appropriate to cut and paste a tech article I wrote on the process of =
patinaing here to the betterment of my fellow craftsperson.. So,  here =
goes (but please be gentle with your criticisms and excuse any percieved =
errors of spelling- remember we canadians do spell color with an extra =
u, etc)- here goes-

THE FINAL FINISH -OR TO PATINA OR NOT TO PATINA
THE LOOK
    Your copper foil project is never quite finished until it's been =
cleaned, maybe patinaed and finally waxed. Then it comes unto itself and =
takes on its own character adding definition and sparkle to the glass =
and framework. But, oh, what a tangled web it seems the final finish =
becomes.=20
    Why won't the black patina go black? Why is the copper all blotchy =
and dirty looking? Why does the glass have a halo or etched look next to =
the foil lines? Why are my fingers all smelly and brown? (Well, maybe =
we'll get a hygienist in for that one)
    Black, copper or slie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Tue May 20 13:08:24 2003
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #539 built 2003-May-13)
X-Path: attbi.com!jerryc34
From: Jerry <jerryc34@attbi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: Bungi: Pataina washing?
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:53:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@attbi.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>>
Precedence: bulk

On 5/20/03 9:14 AM, "Lynne Black"  wrote:

> So, in regard to patinas in general, would you
> recommend not washing after applying at all?


I don't know what the others do and being self taught I probably have bad
habits but I do NOT wash my project after applying copper patina. The water
has a tendency to react with it and make it look terrible. From what I've
read, it seems the copper patina is much less volatile than the black. It
won't stain your glass like the black will.

If I use the black patina, I DO wash it again lightly as I'm always afraid
it will stain the glass and it seems to be a lot more harsh than the copper.
I'll just use something like Dawn dishwashing liquid and a sponge to get the
patina of the glass. Then dry & wax it.

Just what works for me tho I'm interested in what other have to say.

Jerry

----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 14:09:36 2003
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Bungi: Copper Patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:10:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

minerals in hard water is probably the cause of this. using distilled or
ro/di water would eliminate the splotches, i would guess.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzanne albright [mailto:suzi1025@ptdprolog.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:07 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Bungi: Copper Patina
> 
> 
> Definitely don't wash it with water afterwards. It makes the copper
> splotchy. The cotton balls are a good idea, I think I'll buy 
> some & try it.
> It must beat paper towels.
> 
> Suzanne
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Tue May 20 17:08:24 2003
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From: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>
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Subject: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:11:00 -0400
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0
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I have gotten some really helpful advice from you all regarding copper
patina.  However, even if my copper patina comes out well on my solder
joints, it still does not begin to turn the lead came copper.  Any
suggestions?  Thanks, Carol Boyette

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D430370823-20052003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have =
gotten some=20
really helpful advice from you all regarding copper patina.&nbsp; =
However, even=20
if my copper patina comes out well on my solder joints, it still does =
not begin=20
to turn the lead came copper.&nbsp; Any suggestions?&nbsp; Thanks, Carol =

Boyette</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C31F03.8D1607A0--

----
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From owner-glass Tue May 20 18:08:37 2003
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From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@look.ca>
To: "Carol Boyette" <carol.boyette@verizon.net>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:51:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@look.ca>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@verizon.net>>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I'm reluctant to say this but after lurking for months, and biting my =
tongue for fear of being accused of self-promotion, I felt it only =
appropriate to cut and paste a tech article I wrote o