From owner-glass Mon Sep  2 08:46:50 2002
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From: Stephen Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: gruntfish@attbi.com
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Subject: Re: Safely Grinding Glass, or slicing and dicing your thumbs...
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 20:46:46 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<20020830214741.YIYZ19514.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@rwcrwbc55>>
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Finger stalls, as used in areas like banks where large numbers of pieces 
of paper need to be counted/handled.  Most stationery shops have them. 
They fit over your fingers like thimbles, but are of flexible non-slip 
rubber.

Steve

In message <20020830214741.YIYZ19514.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@rwcrwbc55>, 
gruntfish@attbi.com writes
>
>     Does anyone have any suggestions for grinding and
>not occasionally slicing your thumb? I am using Kevlar
>gloves now with a rubberized grip, but the are a bit
>cumbersome, and if there is something better out there,
>I would sure like to try it. Thanks!
>
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-- 

Stephen Richard, Verrier
"Glass on Parade"
Glasgow, Scotland
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  2 09:14:16 2002
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From: Stephen Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Nancy Saucier <nts@datasync.com>
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Subject: Re: Slicing and dicing
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 20:57:56 +0100
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OK if you don't like the finger stalls, you can use micro pore tape, as 
used in hospitals.  Most pharmacies will have lots of the stuff.  You 
have to wind it onto the fingers you use to hold/push the glass.

I've been known to use the back of my finger nails against the glass 
when I can't find the finger stalls.

Of course another solution is to avoid grinding for long periods, so the 
finger stalls will not become uncomfortable.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@datasync.com>, Nancy Saucier 
<nts@datasync.com> writes
>I've tried the rubber tips and find them uncomfortable and awkward.  There
>is this stuff you can buy, can't remember what it's called - comes in a
>roll, like tape and is found in the area of a store where you find bandaids
>and other bandaging materials.  It's a crinkly material that sticks to
>itself without any actual adhesive.  You can wrap your glass-pushing fingers
>in that and it protects them and stays on pretty well.  I really prefer to
>work bare-fingered, though and so usually have lots of little cuts.  If it
>gets too bad, I know its time for a new bit.  When I'm using a new bit, I
>seldom get cut at all.  One of life's little pleasures - a brand new grinder
>bit!!!
>Nancy Saucier
>BeauSoleil
>Picayune Mississippi
>
>----
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-- 

Stephen Richard, Verrier
"Glass on Parade"
Glasgow, Scotland
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  3 20:10:25 2002
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From: "Marci" <mmam5@doorpi.net>
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Subject: Bungi - - GlassTec 2002
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:27:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@doorpi.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@doorpi.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Just in case anyone is looking for the info on the Germany GlassTec Show:

http://www.messe-duesseldorf.de/glasstec2002/en/ba_factsfigures.html



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lori J. Mitchell" <lmitchell@glastar.com>
> To: "Marci" <mmam5@doorpi.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 3:56 PM
> Subject: re: bungi-glass visions & other shows
>
>
> > Dear Bungies
> >
> > The next open house that I am aware of is in New Jersey at Rainbow Art
> Glass, 1761 Route 34 South, Wall Township, Farmingdale 07727, their phone
is (732)
> > 681-6003.  The open house is this weekend!  Then after that at the end
of
> > October there is the largest glass show in the world, it's called Glass
Tec and
> > it is in Germany.
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Lori Mitchell
> > Chief Executive Officer
> > Glastar Corporation
> > www.glastar.com



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From owner-glass Wed Sep  4 11:40:58 2002
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From: jtoney@kanokla.net (Jimmie G. Toney)
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Subject: Few Questions
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 12:22:37 -0500
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Hi Listers -

I am very new to glass, in fact I just attended my first class this =
weekend and now I have a few questions hope you all don't mind. There =
are several different widths of foil tape, would someone please let me =
know what the various widths are used for, and what wide I should be =
using for a medium sized terrarium?

Thanks

Jimmie Toney
<jtoney@kanokla.net>
<http://www.kanokla.com/~jtoney>




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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi Listers -</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I am very new to glass, in fact I just attended my =
first class=20
this weekend and now I have a few questions hope you all don't mind. =
There are=20
several different widths of foil tape, would someone please let me know =
what the=20
various widths are used for, and what wide I should be using for a =
medium sized=20
terrarium?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Jimmie Toney<BR>&lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:jtoney@kanokla.net">jtoney@kanokla.net</A>&gt;<BR>&lt;<A=20
href=3D"http://www.kanokla.com/~jtoney">http://www.kanokla.com/~jtoney</A=
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  4 13:47:13 2002
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From: gruntfish@attbi.com
To: jtoney@kanokla.net (Jimmie G. Toney)
Subject: Re: Few Questions
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 20:00:22 +0000
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   Hi Jimmie and welcome!

     I have never tried to make an aquarium so I am 
afraid I cannot help you there. 
     The different widths of foil tape are for different 
thicknesses of glass. Most of the time you will probably 
be using the same size glass, but if you get adventurous 
and decide to use some older, or specialty glass/items, 
you may find that you need something other than the 
usual 3/8" or whatever you may be accustomed to using. 
     Again welcome, and if there is anything I can do to 
help you along the way, please feel free to ask. =)
> Hi Listers -
> 
> I am very new to glass, in fact I just attended my first class this weekend and 
> now I have a few questions hope you all don't mind. There are several different 
> widths of foil tape, would someone please let me know what the various widths 
> are used for, and what wide I should be using for a medium sized terrarium?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jimmie Toney
> <jtoney@kanokla.net>
> <http://www.kanokla.com/~jtoney>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  4 15:52:14 2002
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Subject: Was "Few Questions"  should have been "copper foil width"
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:23:32 EDT
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Precedence: bulk

Hey Jimmie,

First, Hello, welcome to Bungi.  Second, many people might have deleted your 
original post because we couldn't tell it was a glass related e mail.  My 
first assumption was it was spam but I opened it anyway.  *grin*   It would 
really help everyone if you indicated in the subject line of your e mail that 
it's glass related and an idea of what you wish to know.  Some people 
advocate including the word Bungi in the subject but I don't think it's 
needed, so far I have never gotten spam with subjects such as fusing, lead, 
glass saws or Patrick's tu-tu.  

In response to the copper foil question there are a few things to consider.  
Wider foil will make a stronger joint if you have a nice bead on your 
soldering, however if  your soldering is less than perfect it will be more 
noticeable on wider foil.   I feel a wider solder line draws the eye away 
from and detracts from the glass.  On your terrarium you are also going to 
have the corner to fill in where the pieces of glass join which will add 
additional width to your seam. 

Good luck.

Pat
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  4 17:04:31 2002
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X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye
From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
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Subject: Re: Few Questions
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:22:36 CST 6CDT
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7/32 is probably the most commonly used width, but sometimes 
you may want thicker or thinner solder lines for structural or for 
aesthetic reasons.  Not sure about a "medium size terrarium," but I 
would think 7/32 would be ok.  You should also consider the color 
of the back.  If you're leaving your solder silver, you might want to 
use silver-back foil, but if you're going to going to patina the solder, 
you should use foil with the correspondingly colored back.

Kaye

   Hi Jimmie and welcome!

     I have never tried to make an aquarium so I am 
afraid I cannot help you there. 
     The different widths of foil tape are for different 
thicknesses of glass. Most of the time you will probably 
be using the same size glass, but if you get adventurous 
and decide to use some older, or specialty glass/items, 
you may find that you need something other than the 
usual 3/8" or whatever you may be accustomed to using. 
     Again welcome, and if there is anything I can do to 
help you along the way, please feel free to ask. =)
> Hi Listers -
> 
> I am very new to glass, in fact I just attended my first class this weekend and 
> now I have a few questions hope you all don't mind. There are several different 
> widths of foil tape, would someone please let me know what the various widths 
> are used for, and what wide I should be using for a medium sized terrarium?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jimmie Toney
> <jtoney@kanokla.net>
> <http://www.kanokla.com/~jtoney>
> 
> 
> 

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  4 20:02:23 2002
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Subject: new to stained glass
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:54:12 -0500
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Hello everyone,
I also am new to stained glass, and have completed three of the four =
classes.  My first project was a rose panel, which leaves a lot to be =
desired.  Since I missed the last class, I was wondering if anyone can =
tell me how to finish my piece.  I already have the lead u came soldered =
on, but don't know how to finish with the patina etc.  I also know that =
this is a very broad question, but was wondering if I can get some tips =
and hints on the hobby of stained glass, where to purchase glass, get =
patterns, anything you can think of would help.

Thanks
Wilma

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello everyone,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I also am new to stained glass, and =
have completed=20
three of the four classes.&nbsp; My first project was a rose panel, =
which leaves=20
a lot to be desired.&nbsp; Since I missed the last class, I was =
wondering if=20
anyone can tell me how to finish my piece.&nbsp; I already have the lead =
u came=20
soldered on, but don't know how to finish with the patina etc.&nbsp; I =
also know=20
that this is a very broad question, but was wondering if I can get some =
tips and=20
hints on the hobby of stained glass, where to purchase glass, get =
patterns,=20
anything you can think of would help.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wilma</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  5 13:38:08 2002
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X-Path: attbi.com!gruntfish
From: gruntfish@attbi.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Large Panel Reinforcement...
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 20:16:38 +0000
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Precedence: bulk


     Hi Everybody!

     I have a question about reinforcing large panels, 
(As you may have surmised from my subject line).

     I normally work in 3 dimensional shapes, (Lamps, 
chandeliers, etc...), but have a window that I really 
want to do as a panel. The window is roughly 12' (3'x4')
square feet, and will be a landscape type scene. I am 
planning to do the job with foil rather than caming. 
     I am aware that people often reinforce larger 
panels, but have seen it mentioned here that others have 
had some measure of success with foil and little to no 
reinforcement do to the fact that the pieces more or 
less interlocked.
     Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would 
be the best material to use for reinforcement across the 
panel? How about some good resources for making larger 
panels, (other than a local shop, they all want to bid 
on the job.) I would also be interested in hearing 
success/failure stories regarding larger panels. 
      I really enjoy the sense of community shared by 
the people on this list. Thanks in advance for the 
assistance!

 -- Joe
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  5 14:43:58 2002
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From: <sonyaamt@mindspring.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Large Panel Reinforcement...
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 17:09:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>
Precedence: bulk

Everytime I've asked this question about reinforcement I've been told it is a
case by case situation.  I have learned that working in lead versus copper
foil does not offer any difference in strength.  Lead is flexible.  Copper
Foil actually offers more solder, thereby strength.  I am currently working on
a 36" x 48" Tiffany Landscape pattern.  I felt that it probably had enough
strength on its own but I did take my rendering into my local shop and got
their opinion. If you feel there are weak areas, you can use re-strip that
slides in between the pieces of glass which is then soldered.  It disappears
completely. I have been very successful and prefer copper foil to lead.  I do
then finish the piece in a wood frame which adds to the support, but Zinc will
work as well. 

Sonya
Atlanta, Georgia



On Thu, 05 Sep 2002 20:16:38 +0000 gruntfish@attbi.com wrote:

> 
>      Hi Everybody!
> 
>      I have a question about reinforcing large
> panels, 
> (As you may have surmised from my subject
> line).
> 
>      I normally work in 3 dimensional shapes,
> (Lamps, 
> chandeliers, etc...), but have a window that I
> really 
> want to do as a panel. The window is roughly
> 12' (3'x4')
> square feet, and will be a landscape type
> scene. I am 
> planning to do the job with foil rather than
> caming. 
>      I am aware that people often reinforce
> larger 
> panels, but have seen it mentioned here that
> others have 
> had some measure of success with foil and
> little to no 
> reinforcement do to the fact that the pieces
> more or 
> less interlocked.
>      Does anyone have any suggestions as to
> what would 
> be the best material to use for reinforcement
> across the 
> panel? How about some good resources for making
> larger 
> panels, (other than a local shop, they all want
> to bid 
> on the job.) I would also be interested in
> hearing 
> success/failure stories regarding larger
> panels. 
>       I really enjoy the sense of community
> shared by 
> the people on this list. Thanks in advance for
> the 
> assistance!
> 
>  -- Joe
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to:
> glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at
> http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  5 15:45:10 2002
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From: "MB" <mbeisner@charter.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C25503.25036EC0"
Subject: RE: Large panel reinforcement
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 17:39:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@charter.net>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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HI,
New to this site but like what I've seen so far!  I used to work in a =
glass studio making church windows and such.  One of the last jobs I =
worked on was the Tree of Life for a hospital.  The panels were approx =
3x4 feet, all copper foiled.  We used no re-strip but did reinforce from =
the back using re-bar, then painted it black w/ rustoleum.  We didn't =
bend the rebar to match the main lines of the pattern, just ran them =
straight across, vertically on the back side, one per panel.  Knowing =
how this pattern was, lots of tiny leaves, I would imagine it would be =
very similar to a landscape type design.  You don't even notice the =
rebar when looking at the windows, the eye will see what it wants to see =
and the mind blocks out everything else.  It was cathedral glass and not =
opague, so if you're considering that....ya still don't see the bar.  If =
you're concerned, you could always run 2 strips of rebar equal distances =
apart, that way you can forget about using restrip altogether.  Good =
luck! Mary

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C25503.25036EC0
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>HI,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>New to this site but like what I've =
seen so=20
far!&nbsp; I used to work in a glass studio making church windows and=20
such.&nbsp; One of the last jobs I worked on was the Tree of Life for a=20
hospital.&nbsp; The panels were approx 3x4 feet, all copper =
foiled.&nbsp; We=20
used no re-strip but did reinforce from the back using re-bar, then =
painted it=20
black w/ rustoleum.&nbsp; We didn't bend the rebar to match the main =
lines of=20
the pattern, just ran them straight across, vertically on the back side, =
one per=20
panel.&nbsp; Knowing how this pattern was, lots of tiny leaves, I would =
imagine=20
it would be very similar to a landscape type design.&nbsp; You don't =
even notice=20
the rebar when looking at the windows, the eye will see what it wants to =
see and=20
the mind blocks out everything else.&nbsp; It was cathedral glass and =
not=20
opague, so if you're considering that....ya still don't see the =
bar.&nbsp; If=20
you're concerned, you could always run 2 strips of rebar equal distances =
apart,=20
that way you can forget about using restrip altogether.&nbsp; Good luck! =

Mary</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  5 23:39:37 2002
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Stephen Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Jimmie G. Toney" <jtoney@kanokla.net>
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Subject: Re: Few Questions
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 22:18:12 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@kanokla.net>>
Precedence: bulk

The width of foil is relative to the thickness of glass and the amount=20
or size of solder bead you want to show. If you are using 1/8 inch glass=20
a 3/16 inch tape will give you 1/32 inch on each face of the glass.  A=20
7/32 tape will give 3/64 inch on each face, and a 3/32 bead.

It also depends on the accuracy with which the foil is placed on the=20
glass. When I started, I used wider foil than I do now.

Steve
In message <1970Jan1.000.0@kanokla.net>, Jimmie G. Toney=20
<jtoney@kanokla.net> writes
>Hi Listers -
>=A0
>I am very new to glass, in fact I just attended my first class this weekend
>and now I have a few questions hope you all don't mind. There are several
>different widths of foil tape, would someone please let me know what the
>various widths are used for, and what wide I should be using for a medium
>sized terrarium?
>=A0
>Thanks
>=A0
>Jimmie Toney
><jtoney@kanokla.net>
><http://www.kanokla.com/~jtoney>
>=A0
>=A0
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 8/22/2002

--=20

Stephen Richard, Verrier
"Glass on Parade"
Glasgow, Scotland
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From owner-glass Fri Sep  6 02:11:51 2002
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Subject: Pre-Qualify Instantly Online NOW for your choice of an UNSECURED VISA or MASTERCARD
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 04:06:50 -0400
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From owner-glass Fri Sep  6 13:16:46 2002
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X-Path: MAILER-DAEMON
From:     "Postmaster" <postmaster@gaziosmanpasa.net>
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Subject:  Virus Detected
Date:     Fri,  6 Sep 2002 22:26:48 +0300
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A message for this address contained a virus
and was not delivered.

Virus detected - W32.Klez.H@mm 
The message was from <emregoker@gaziosmanpasa.net>
Subject: A special  humour game
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  9 13:26:08 2002
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I would appreciate your taking me off the list, too many virus files being 
sent.

m.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT  SIZE=2>I would appreciate your taking me off the list, too many virus files being sent.
<BR>
<BR>m.</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Mon Sep  9 13:55:22 2002
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From: "Foundmoney.com" <bounce@naoffs.com>
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Subject: Member: #34995 Unclaimed Funds Notification
Date: Mon Sep  9 11:36:27 2002
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Dear member,

It has come to our attention that you may be entitled to an undisclosed amount of unclaimed funds. 

If so, these funds are currently reserved in your name and waiting for you to claim. 

Please enter your name at the unclaimed money search engine located at our site. 
Click Here: <a href="http://www.everblur.com/srv/redir?r=85&c=31&n=4172772

Notification">http://www.everblur.com/srv/redir?r=85&c=31&n=4172772

Notification</a> Date: 08/14/02 to 08/30/02


Unclaimed Funds Department
Found Money.com<br><br>If you do not wish to receive special offers from our affiliates in the future, you may delete your email from our list at <a href="http://www.everblur.com/srv/rem?c=0&e=glass@bungi.com">http://www.everblur.com/srv/rem?c=0&e=glass@bungi.com</a>.  We apologize for any inconvenience.

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From owner-glass Mon Sep  9 15:28:18 2002
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From: Joan <beadnik@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re:[SPAM]  Member: #34995 Unclaimed Funds Notification   
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 14:40:21 -0700 (PDT)
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Why is so much spam coming through on the bungi list. 
These things are all addressed to "glass@bungi.com" so
these folks must be signing up to the list... or
not????

I am on a large number of e-lists and this is the only
one that gets all this really junky spam...

Isn't there anything that can be done to stop it???

Joan

--- "Foundmoney.com" <bounce@naoffs.com> wrote:

<HR>
Dear member,

It has come to our attention that you may be entitled
to an undisclosed amount of unclaimed funds. 

If so, these funds are currently reserved in your name
and waiting for you to claim. 

Please enter your name at the unclaimed money search
engine located at our site. 
Click Here: <a
href="http://www.everblur.com/srv/redir?r=85&c=31&n=4172772

Notification">http://www.everblur.com/srv/redir?r=85&c=31&n=4172772

Notification</a> Date: 08/14/02 to 08/30/02


Unclaimed Funds Department
Found Money.com<br><br>If you do not wish to receive
special offers from our affiliates in the future, you
may delete your email from our list at <a
href="http://www.everblur.com/srv/rem?c=0&e=glass@bungi.com">http://www.everblur.com/srv/rem?c=0&e=glass@bungi.com</a>.
 We apologize for any inconvenience.

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__________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 10 09:02:47 2002
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Subject: Stained glass list.
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:47:41 EDT
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I am not sure that I am correct, but I am doing this to be on the stained 
glass list.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3>I am not sure that I am correct, but I am doing this to be on the stained glass list.</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 10 15:15:11 2002
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 10 19:23:00 2002
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From: "Marci" <mmam5@doorpi.net>
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Subject: Bungi - Lead Free Solder
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:31:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@doorpi.net>
Precedence: bulk

I picked up some lead free solder and some 63/37.  The 63/37 is nice to work
with - a little smoother than the 60/40.  My question - While working with
the lead free - my solder line was smooth - but the solder itself is not
nice and shiny when it cools - no ripples, etc. - just looks like old
unshined solder.  Is this normal for lead free? And do you have to buff it
before adding patina?

Thanks,

Marci


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 11 05:17:49 2002
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Subject: Re: Lead Free Solder
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:37:47 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi Marci and all the rest!!

I've worked with lead free plumber's solder and never had any problems =
with it not being shiny, it just doesn't take patina of any kind.  I'll =
be interested to see what others have to say that have used the lead =
free solder that's made for glass or jewelry, hope we get some more feed =
back on this subject. Have a great day!! Mary

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Marci and all the =
rest!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've worked with lead free plumber's =
solder and=20
never had any problems with it not being shiny, it just doesn't take =
patina of=20
any kind.&nbsp; I'll be interested to see what others have to say that =
have used=20
the lead free solder that's made for glass or jewelry, hope we get some =
more=20
feed back on this subject. Have a great day!! =
Mary</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 11 05:49:57 2002
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Subject: table top kiln
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 07:10:14 -0500
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Hi,
I've recently began to work with a small kiln made by Sundance, interior =
dimensions are 6" x 6"x 12".  I'm using Fuse Master Premium Shelf Wash =
and am having problems with it sticking to the glass that I'm trying to =
fuse.  I understand that each kiln is different and that the learning =
curve is great (also frustrating!!).  I use about 5 coats of kiln wash =
on the shelf, have the shelf elevated on legs, have tried air drying it =
for 24 hours, also heating it to 1300 degrees in the kiln , then letting =
it cool before using it for fusing (all the shelf wash just cracks right =
off and have to start again.grrrrrrr!)  I've got the book The Fused =
Glass Handbook by Gil Reynolds, also Making Glass Beads by Cindy Jenkins =
and use these as reference books but are there better books for using =
table top type kilns?  With as many problems as I am having, I'm =
beginning to wonder if I spent a small fortune for nothing!  I am using =
Uroboros COE 90 glass for fusing and slumping, glass rods for the bead =
making but don't know their COE.  I just haven't had much luck with the =
fusing or the annealing process for the beads, no matter how long I let =
them soak at 1000 degrees, they still seem to crack the next day as I'm =
taking them off the mandrels. =20

Does anyone out there have a "cheat sheet" on times and temps for fusing =
for this size kiln? =20

Anyone have any hints on why my beads are cracking? =20

Anyone interested in buying a brand new kiln?LOL  Just kidding!  I'm =
determined to figure this out but need some guidance or maybe a good =
smack on the head for even attempting to learn hot glass.  Maybe I =
should just stick to the stained and leaded stuff? =20

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can toss my way.  Good luck with =
all your projects!
Mary

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've recently began to work with a =
small kiln made=20
by Sundance, interior dimensions are 6" x 6"x&nbsp;12".&nbsp; I'm using =
Fuse=20
Master Premium Shelf Wash and am having problems with it sticking to the =
glass=20
that I'm trying to fuse.&nbsp; I understand that each kiln is different =
and that=20
the learning curve is great (also frustrating!!).&nbsp; I use about 5 =
coats of=20
kiln wash on the shelf, have the shelf elevated on legs, have tried air =
drying=20
it for 24 hours, also heating it to 1300 degrees in the kiln&nbsp;, then =
letting=20
it cool before using it for fusing (all the shelf wash just cracks right =
off and=20
have to start again.grrrrrrr!)&nbsp; I've got the book The Fused Glass =
Handbook=20
by Gil Reynolds, also Making Glass Beads by Cindy Jenkins and use these =
as=20
reference books but are there better books for using table top type =
kilns?&nbsp;=20
With as many problems as I am having, I'm beginning to wonder if I spent =
a small=20
fortune for nothing!&nbsp; I am using Uroboros COE 90 glass for fusing =
and=20
slumping, glass rods for the bead making but don't know their COE.&nbsp; =
I just=20
haven't had much luck with the fusing or the annealing process for the =
beads, no=20
matter how long I let them soak at 1000 degrees, they still seem to =
crack the=20
next day as I'm taking them off the mandrels.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anyone out there have a "cheat =
sheet" on times=20
and temps for fusing for this size kiln?&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyone have any hints on why my beads =
are=20
cracking?&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyone interested in buying&nbsp;a =
brand new=20
kiln?LOL&nbsp; Just kidding!&nbsp; I'm determined to figure this out but =
need=20
some guidance or maybe a good smack on the head for even attempting to =
learn hot=20
glass.&nbsp; Maybe I should just stick to the stained and leaded =
stuff?&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance for any help you guys =
can toss my=20
way.&nbsp; Good luck with all your projects!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mary</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 11 08:23:07 2002
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Subject: Re: Lead Free Solder
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:48:02 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know of any health problems related to lead free solder? Is it 
100% tin or is there another element to it? Are there any known resources 
that help explain all the health risks in our field?

Also, I am thinking of joining my local home builder's association to help 
promote my art glass business. Do you think this would be helpful/does anyone 
have experience (good/bad) in this regard?

Thank you
Libby Imbody
Walhalla Art Works
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 11 09:26:44 2002
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From: "Bob D." <bobfuses@cox.net>
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Subject: Re: table top kiln
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:54:12 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@cox.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@charter.net>>
Precedence: bulk

>>I'm using Fuse Master Premium Shelf Wash and am having problems with it
sticking to the glass that I'm trying to fuse.  I understand that each kiln
is different and that the learning curve is great (also frustrating!!).  I
use about 5 coats of kiln wash on the shelf, have the shelf elevated on
legs, have tried air drying it for 24 hours, also heating it to 1300 degrees
in the kiln , then letting it cool before using it for fusing <<

Try rubbing the dried kiln wash with your hand to work up a powdery release
surface. This will prevent sticking.I sprinkle a fresh coat of kiln wash by
shaking it through an old sock before each firing. Never any sticking.

Bob in 92026

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 11 09:57:33 2002
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
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Subject: RE: Lead Free Solder
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:24:33 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

you should investigate the msds of the product you're going to use. lead
free solder usually contains antimony. there is no 100% tin solder. most all
solders are an allow of something else, unless you're using 100% silver for
instance.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CImbody@aol.com [mailto:CImbody@aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 7:48 AM
> To: mbeisner@charter.net; glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Lead Free Solder
> 
> 
> Does anyone know of any health problems related to lead free 
> solder? Is it 
> 100% tin or is there another element to it? Are there any 
> known resources 
> that help explain all the health risks in our field?
> 
> Also, I am thinking of joining my local home builder's 
> association to help 
> promote my art glass business. Do you think this would be 
> helpful/does anyone 
> have experience (good/bad) in this regard?
> 
> Thank you
> Libby Imbody
> Walhalla Art Works
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 11 14:15:33 2002
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X-Path: mindspring.com!sonyaamt
From: <sonyaamt@mindspring.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Lead Safety Tips
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:48:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>
Precedence: bulk

Like probably the majority of this group, I have a home studio in my basement.
 I solder very rarely but as I am now considering devoting more time to making
pieces for sale, I am concerned about lead safety.  

I have recently begun wearing gloves when I solder.  I of course do not drink
or eat when I'm soldering. However, when I am in other stages of working I do
drink (non-alcoholic :)) at that same bench.  

My studio is in my basement so I do have the ability of keeping it separate
from the rest of the house.  I wear an apron when I'm soldering but how do I
wash it without contaminating my washer or other clothes?  I do use the proper
anti-lead soap that I bought from a local supplier.  I rinse rigorously to
make sure that I am decontaminated before I do anything else.

I would love to hear everyone's recommendations in just making my life more
safe.  

I am not ready to move to a lead-free solder because I am unsure of the
overall effect it would have on my designs. But I do want to minimize the
effects of working with lead on my body.  I would like to have a long, glass
career.

Thank you,

Sonya
Atlanta, Georgia 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 11 15:45:12 2002
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Subject: RE: Lead Safety Tips
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:37:26 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk



> -----Original Message-----
> From: sonyaamt@mindspring.com [mailto:sonyaamt@mindspring.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 1:48 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Lead Safety Tips
> 
> 
> Like probably the majority of this group, I have a home 
> studio in my basement.
>  I solder very rarely but as I am now considering devoting 
> more time to making
> pieces for sale, I am concerned about lead safety.  
> 
> I have recently begun wearing gloves when I solder.  I of 
> course do not drink
> or eat when I'm soldering. However, when I am in other stages 
> of working I do
> drink (non-alcoholic :)) at that same bench.  
> 
> My studio is in my basement so I do have the ability of 
> keeping it separate
> from the rest of the house.  

it isn't really separate, unless you have no way to allow dust and air to
migrate from the basement to the rest of the house. i don't know too many
house designs that would allow that. exhaust fan leading outside, perhaps
through a dust trap.

> I wear an apron when I'm 
> soldering but how do I
> wash it without contaminating my washer or other clothes?  

take your shoes off before exiting the basement. shower and wash your hair
in the basement. wash all your clothes in a separate load from the rest of
the household stuff. you won't contaminate the washer since most of the dust
will be carried by the water out of the washer.

> I 
> do use the proper
> anti-lead soap that I bought from a local supplier.  I rinse 
> rigorously to
> make sure that I am decontaminated before I do anything else.
> 
> I would love to hear everyone's recommendations in just 
> making my life more
> safe.  
> 
> I am not ready to move to a lead-free solder because I am 
> unsure of the
> overall effect it would have on my designs. But I do want to 
> minimize the
> effects of working with lead on my body.  I would like to 
> have a long, glass
> career.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Sonya
> Atlanta, Georgia 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 11 16:02:41 2002
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Stephen Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: MB <mbeisner@charter.net>
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Subject: Re: table top kiln
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:18:32 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@charter.net>>
Precedence: bulk

You could try using shelf paper, such as Thinfire by Bullseye. It is
.2mm thick.  .5mm shelf paper is slightly cheaper and will do the trick
too.  It will stick to the bottom of the glass, but washes off easily.
In fact, you should always use dust masks when dealing with ceramic
fibre paper, and deal with it damp as much as possible.

Steve

 In message <1970Jan1.000.0@charter.net>, MB <mbeisner@charter.net>
writes
>Hi,
>I've recently began to work with a small kiln made by Sundance, interior
>dimensions are 6" x 6"x=A012".=A0 I'm using Fuse Master Premium Shelf Wash
>and am having problems with it sticking to the glass that I'm trying to fu=
se.
>=A0 I understand that each kiln is different and that the learning curve i=
s great
>(also frustrating!!).=A0 I use about 5 coats of kiln wash on the shelf, ha=
ve the
>shelf elevated on legs, have tried air drying it for 24 hours, also heatin=
g it
>to 1300 degrees in the kiln=A0, then letting it cool before using it for f=
using (all
>the shelf wash just cracks right off and have to start again.grrrrrrr!)=A0=
 I've got
>the book The Fused Glass Handbook by Gil Reynolds, also Making Glass
>Beads by Cindy Jenkins and use these as reference books but are there
>better books for using table top type kilns?=A0 With as many problems as I
>am having, I'm beginning to wonder if I spent a small fortune for nothing!=
=A0 I
>am using Uroboros COE 90 glass for fusing and slumping, glass rods for
>the bead making but don't know their COE.=A0 I just haven't had much luck
>with the fusing or the annealing process for the beads, no matter how long
>I let them soak at 1000 degrees, they still seem to crack the next day as
>I'm taking them off the mandrels.=A0
>=A0
>Does anyone out there have a "cheat sheet" on times and temps for fusing
>for this size kiln?=A0
>=A0
>Anyone have any hints on why my beads are cracking?=A0
>=A0
>Anyone interested in buying=A0a brand new kiln?LOL=A0 Just kidding!=A0 I'm
>determined to figure this out but need some guidance or maybe a good
>smack on the head for even attempting to learn hot glass.=A0 Maybe I should
>just stick to the stained and leaded stuff?=A0
>=A0
>Thanks in advance for any help you guys can toss my way.=A0 Good luck
>with all your projects!
>Mary

--=20

Stephen Richard, Verrier
"Glass on Parade"
Glasgow, Scotland
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 11 16:15:48 2002
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Stephen Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: CImbody@aol.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: Lead Free Solder
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:21:26 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk


Monona Rossol's book on health and safety for artists covers most 
hazards very well.

Steve
In message <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>, CImbody@aol.com writes
>Does anyone know of any health problems related to lead free solder? Is it
>100% tin or is there another element to it? Are there any known resources
>that help explain all the health risks in our field?
>
>Also, I am thinking of joining my local home builder's association to help
>promote my art glass business. Do you think this would be helpful/does anyone
>have experience (good/bad) in this regard?
>
>Thank you
>Libby Imbody
>Walhalla Art Works
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 

Stephen Richard, Verrier
"Glass on Parade"
Glasgow, Scotland
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 11 16:32:22 2002
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Subject: re: Lead Saftey Tips
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:40:05 -0500
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Hi Sonya,
Glad to hear you're thinking about making pieces for sale!  Good luck =
with your new adventure!!

As for safety goes, Shepards makes a soap especially for removing heavy =
metals.  It can be used on the entire body but I only use it on my =
hands. A good abrasive soap like Lava works too.   I too wear gloves =
when I work just to keep the tiny shards of glass off, and to minimize =
the amount of metals and chemicals coming into contact with my skin.  I =
try and wash all my work clothes and towels seperate from the rest of =
the laundry, but am not always able to.  I wear different shoes when I'm =
working and keep those only for work.  The best tips I can give is to =
"wet" clean all the surfaces in your studio, don't vacuum, since that =
tends to disturb the tiny particles and gets them airborn and then can =
be inhaled.  Also, good ventilation is very important.  Is there a =
window in your basement that you can open?  Is the room large enough =
that you can circulate the air  with a fan when soldering to blow the =
fumes away from you?  I set my studio up so my soldering station is =
right in front of a window and it's open whenever I solder. Even in our =
WI winters, much to my hubby's dislike!!   I installed a ventilation =
fan, but with as corrosive as the atmosphere is out there, it didn't =
last long.  I've been working with glass just about every day for the =
past 5 years, even full time in a glass studio for awhile before setting =
up my own business at home.  Recently had a heavy metals tox screen run =
just to check and all my levels were fine, some even lower than normal.  =
You're right not to eat or drink in your studio, but I always have a =
water bottle out in mine, just don't keep it near the soldering or glass =
cutting area.  For the most part, if a person just uses common sense, =
everything will go fine.  It will be interesting to see other responses =
to your questions, hope you get good replies. Take care!! Mary=20

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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Sonya,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Glad to hear you're thinking about =
making pieces=20
for sale!&nbsp; Good luck with your new adventure!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for safety goes, Shepards makes a =
soap=20
especially for removing heavy metals.&nbsp; It can be used on the entire =
body=20
but I only use it on my hands.&nbsp;A good abrasive soap like Lava works =

too.&nbsp; &nbsp;I too wear gloves when I work just to keep the tiny =
shards of=20
glass off, and to minimize the amount of metals and =
chemicals&nbsp;coming into=20
contact with my skin.&nbsp; I try and wash all my work clothes and =
towels=20
seperate from the rest of the laundry, but am not always able to.&nbsp; =
I wear=20
different shoes when I'm working and keep those only for work.&nbsp; The =
best=20
tips I can give is to "wet" clean all the surfaces in your studio, don't =
vacuum,=20
since that tends to disturb the tiny particles and gets them airborn and =
then=20
can be inhaled.&nbsp; Also, good ventilation is very important.&nbsp; Is =
there a=20
window in your basement that you can open?&nbsp; Is the room large =
enough that=20
you can circulate the air&nbsp; with a fan when soldering to blow the =
fumes away=20
from you?&nbsp; I set my studio up so my soldering station is right in =
front of=20
a window and it's open whenever I solder. Even in our WI winters, much =
to my=20
hubby's dislike!! &nbsp; I installed a ventilation fan, but with as =
corrosive as=20
the atmosphere is out there, it didn't last long.&nbsp; I've been =
working with=20
glass just about every day for the past 5 years, even full time in a =
glass=20
studio for awhile before setting up my own business at home.&nbsp; =
Recently had=20
a heavy metals tox screen run just to check and all my levels were fine, =
some=20
even lower than normal.&nbsp; You're right not to eat or drink in your =
studio,=20
but I always have a water bottle out in mine, just don't keep it near =
the=20
soldering or glass cutting area.&nbsp; For the most part, if a person =
just uses=20
common sense, everything will go fine.&nbsp; It will be interesting to =
see other=20
responses to your questions, hope you get good replies. Take care!!=20
Mary&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 11 18:51:16 2002
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X-Path: doorpi.net!mmam5
From: "Marci" <mmam5@doorpi.net>
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Subject: Bungi -  Lead Safety Tips
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:12:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@doorpi.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Sonya,

My shop is in the basement too. The door out leads directly to an open area
that goes into the garage - with the shop window open/cracked, I have good
ventilation for the lead fumes to escape. I use gloves to protect my hands -
also keeps flux from getting into all those nicks and scrapes from cutting
and grinding!! I usually have a soda or coffee near me too no matter what
stage I'm in. . . just make sure it's not in the line of fire for some of
the stages.  I use to worry more about the lead, but each year I go to the
Doctor for my yearly exam, he is aware of my craft and we pay extra for the
lead level test. So far nothing to report . . . he says that I'm probably
safe and alll my levels are great.

I did put aside glass while planning and having kids  .. . but after
everyone got past the 6 month mark - I was able to get back into it.

Good Luck!

Marci
Martin Designs
www.mmartindesigns.com



----- Original Message -----
From: <sonyaamt@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 3:48 PM
Subject: Lead Safety Tips


> Like probably the majority of this group, I have a home studio in my
basement.
>  I solder very rarely but as I am now considering devoting more time to
making
> pieces for sale, I am concerned about lead safety.
>
> I have recently begun wearing gloves when I solder.  I of course do not
drink
> or eat when I'm soldering. However, when I am in other stages of working I
do
> drink (non-alcoholic :)) at that same bench.
>
> My studio is in my basement so I do have the ability of keeping it
separate
> from the rest of the house.  I wear an apron when I'm soldering but how do
I
> wash it without contaminating my washer or other clothes?  I do use the
proper
> anti-lead soap that I bought from a local supplier.  I rinse rigorously to
> make sure that I am decontaminated before I do anything else.
>
> I would love to hear everyone's recommendations in just making my life
more
> safe.
>
> I am not ready to move to a lead-free solder because I am unsure of the
> overall effect it would have on my designs. But I do want to minimize the
> effects of working with lead on my body.  I would like to have a long,
glass
> career.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Sonya
> Atlanta, Georgia
> ----



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From owner-glass Thu Sep 12 06:06:44 2002
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Lead Safety Tips
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:43:23 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by INTERNET:sonyaamt@mindspring.com
>I am not ready to move to a lead-free solder because I am unsure of the
overall effect it would have on my designs. But I do want to minimize the=

effects of working with lead on my body.  I would like to have a long,
glass
career.<

First thing to do is get a lead blood test.  This will give you a base li=
ne
against which to judge subsequent lead tests.  It is a simple blood test
which I have performed yearly (I have been a professional stained glass
artist since 1995).  Make sure you tell your physician or nurse-practione=
r
that you need a lead test when you set up the appointment, so they can ha=
ve
the correct colored blood vial ready to send to the lab.  Get the test
done.  Keep track over time of how your lead level is, and take appropria=
te
measures if you see your level is rising above normal.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles/ArtWorks
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 12 06:39:28 2002
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From: "Lee Clark" <laclark@unm.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====_103183685741=_"
Subject: Workshop advice
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:20:57 -0600
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--=====_103183685741=_
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Hello,
  I'm new to this list and new to stained glass, but so far loving it!  I'm=
 putting together a workshop under the sunroom and would like some advice.=
  Currently it's 10' x 12 1/2'.  Is this big enough for a hobby workshop?=
  I can expand it later, if necessary.  Can anyone give me advice on how to=
 set it up, work tables, glass storage, and anything else?

thanks
Lee


--=====_103183685741=_
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<BODY style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial" text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>&nbsp; I'm new to this list and new to stained glass, but so 
far loving it!&nbsp; I'm putting together a workshop under the sunroom and would 
like some advice.&nbsp; Currently it's 10' x 12 1/2'.&nbsp; Is this big enough 
for a hobby workshop?&nbsp; I can expand it later, if necessary.&nbsp; Can 
anyone give me advice on how to set it up, work tables, glass storage, and 
anything else?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Lee</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>


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From owner-glass Thu Sep 12 14:19:51 2002
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Subject: Fw: Workshop advice
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----- Original Message -----
From: DL Kankey
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 4:04 PM
To: Lee Clark
Subject: Re: Workshop advice

Lee,

Hello, I'm new to the group as well.  I have one side of my garage set up=

From owner-glass Thu Sep 12 21:36:27 2002
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X-Path: comcast.net!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: "Lee Clark laclark@unm.edu [bungier/Bungier]"
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Subject: Re: Workshop advice
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 00:00:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>
References: <<746569948.1031839011084.JavaMail.root@monkey>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

Small spiral bound booklet "Your Stained Glass Workshop" by Gene Mayo. 
 ISNB 0-936459-34-4 and probably doesn't even cost $10.  Most glass 
supply shops will have it, and it is carried by many shops that sell on 
the web.

I started out with a small area in my husbands workshop.  In 6 months, I 
had taken over most of it.  When he complained, I pointed out that I'd 
probably used it more hours in 6 months than he had in over 10 years. 
 I've now got about half the basement, and am beginning to spill over 
into the excercise area.  He finally gave up and fixed up the far end of 
the basement for his workshop! Hve fun!!! - Cec

Lee Clark laclark@unm.edu [bungier/Bungier] wrote:

> Hello,
>   I'm new to this list and new to stained glass, but so far loving 
> it!  I'm putting together a workshop under the sunroom and would like 
> some advice.  Currently it's 10' x 12 1/2'.  Is this big enough for a 
> hobby workshop?  I can expand it later, if necessary.  Can anyone give 
> me advice on how to set it up, work tables, glass storage, and 
> anything else?
>  
> thanks
> Lee


-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 13 16:33:10 2002
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From: "Istvan V" <istvan5@sympatico.ca>
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Subject: Carnauba Wax
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:00:51 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@sympatico.ca>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I read somewhere that to clean and polish a finished glass project,  =
carnauba wax is recommended.   Has anyone heard of this?   If so, where =
can I purchase it?   Thanks,  K. Kovacs

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<BODY style=3D"COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: " bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I read somewhere that to clean and polish a =
finished glass=20
project,&nbsp; carnauba wax is recommended.&nbsp;&nbsp; Has anyone heard =
of=20
this?&nbsp;&nbsp; If so, where can I purchase it?&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Thanks,&nbsp; K.=20
Kovacs</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 13 19:00:50 2002
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X-Path: comcast.net!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: "Istvan V istvan5@sympatico.ca [bungier/Bungier]"
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Subject: Re: Carnauba Wax
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:30:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>
References: <<1138056699.1031960352129.JavaMail.root@monkey>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

Many of us use liquid car wax spray on our foiled pieces.  Cec

Istvan V istvan5@sympatico.ca [bungier/Bungier] wrote:

> I read somewhere that to clean and polish a finished glass project,  
> carnauba wax is recommended.   Has anyone heard of this?   If so, 
> where can I purchase it?   Thanks,  K. Kovacs


-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 13 20:02:29 2002
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Attention Businesses, Online Users, Shoppers and Webmasters...!!

We like to take this opportunity to inform you of a recent launch of a new website which allows businesses to advertise their Products and Services for FREE and allows Online Users, Shoppers and Webmasters to find the Resources and Information they need.

Want to know more...??? Then visit the Mirage Computer Services Network website at:

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Here you will be able to advertise for FREE, see what big companies have got to offer Shoppers and Online Users as well as Webmasters resources. Give us a visit and you will see what we mean.


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This message is an advertisement. We will continue to bring you valuable permission based messages on the products and services that interest you most unless you wish to decline. We process all requests immediately. Brought to you by MirageNet, Copyright ©2002 Mirage BBS North Wales. All Rights Reserved.
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 13 22:08:28 2002
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I believe carnauba wax is a major ingredient in auto wax.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>I believe carnauba wax is a major ingredient in auto wax.</FONT></HTML>

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RAV AntiVirus for FreeBSD i386 version: 8.3.2 (snapshot-20020109)
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-----------------------
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The infected file was saved to quarantine with name: 1031980888-dfg8E5DtxM098081.
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Scan engine 8.7 () for i386.
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Dear Online User..

Visit and Win Prizes at http://www.miragenet.co.uk/csn/
Your Online Shoppers, Webmasters, Online Users Resource and Information website.

Cheers

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Subject: Re: Fw: Workshop advice
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:16:08 -0500
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Hi,

So glad to meet you!
I have a big honking fan that I have set up on the floor that I point tow=
ards my projects.
This seems to work for blowing the fumes away from my face.  I crack the =
garage door slightly, and open the door going into my backyard.
As for the winter months...I'm new to glass as well, so I havent spent a =
winter in my garage yet (LOL)!  I suppose I'll do the same thing, only on=
 low...with a waarm sweat shirt.  But here again, I live in Texas, so the=
re really isn't too much to worry about with constant cold days.  Our win=
ters are so mild.

Are you doing glass for self satisfaction, or do you hope to start a busi=
ness one day?

Looking forward to talking more to you,
Deena

----- Original Message -----
From: Linda Cutberth
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 1:34 AM
To: DL Kankey
Subject: Re: Fw: Workshop advice

Hi,

I am new to this group and new to glass.  I am
thinking about working in my garage but I'm concerned
about ventilation when working with lead solder.  How
do you handle the fumes, etc. when you work in your
garage during winter or in the basement?

Linda =20



__________________________________________________
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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Hi,</DIV> <DIV=
>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>So glad to meet you!</DIV> <DIV>I have a big honking f=
an that I have set up on the floor that I point towards my projects.</DIV=
> <DIV>This seems to work for blowing the fumes away from my face.&nbsp; =
I crack the garage door slightly, and open the door going into my backyar=
d.</DIV> <DIV>As for the winter months...I'm new to glass as well, so I h=
avent spent a winter in my garage yet (LOL)!&nbsp; I suppose I'll do the =
same thing, only on low...with a waarm sweat shirt.&nbsp; But here again,=
 I live in Texas, so there really isn't too much to worry about with cons=
tant cold days.&nbsp; Our winters are so mild.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <D=
IV>Are you doing glass for self satisfaction, or do you hope to start a b=
usiness one day?</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Looking forward to talking =
more to you,</DIV> <DIV>Deena</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D=
"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PAD=
DING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----=
- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; COLOR: =
black; FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>From:</B> Linda Cutberth</DIV> <DIV style=3D"=
FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 15, 2002 1:34 AM</DIV> <=
DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> DL Kankey</DIV> <DIV style=3D"F=
ONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Fw: Workshop advice</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp=
;</DIV>Hi,<BR><BR>I am new to this group and new to glass.&nbsp; I am<BR>=
thinking about working in my garage but I'm concerned<BR>about ventilatio=
n when working with lead solder.&nbsp; How<BR>do you handle the fumes, et=
c. when you work in your<BR>garage during winter or in the basement?<BR><=
BR>Linda <BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________=
__<BR>Do you Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! News - Today's headlines<BR>http://news.ya=
hoo.com<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get more from t=
he Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : <a href=3D'http://explorer.msn.com'=
>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 15 20:41:44 2002
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X-Path: comcast.net!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: "DL Kankey lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com [bungier/Bungier]"
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Subject: Re: Fw: Workshop advice
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:52:59 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>
References: <<1141142386.1032133997085.JavaMail.root@monkey>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

As noted, I work in the basement, and I'm currently harping (to my=20
husband) on the idea of a kitchen exhaust fan down there.  Especially in =

the winter (temp about 57=BA), bundled into at least one sweat suit and=20
maybe several jackets, a large fan reduces the temperature of me and my=20
soldering iron too much.  I just use a gentle small fan, which seems to=20
work well.

My friend who uses glass by the ton, cuts down her large sheets in her=20
garage, and she uses a hair drier blower to warm the glass before=20
cutting.  Winter day temps range from around 35=BA down to around 20=BA i=
n=20
Maryland. - Cec

DL Kankey lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com [bungier/Bungier] wrote:

> Hi,
> =20
> So glad to meet you!
> I have a big honking fan that I have set up on the floor that I point=20
> towards my projects.
> This seems to work for blowing the fumes away from my face.  I crack=20
> the garage door slightly, and open the door going into my backyard.
> As for the winter months...I'm new to glass as well, so I havent spent =

> a winter in my garage yet (LOL)!  I suppose I'll do the same thing,=20
> only on low...with a waarm sweat shirt.  But here again, I live in=20
> Texas, so there really isn't too much to worry about with constant=20
> cold days.  Our winters are so mild.
> =20
> Are you doing glass for self satisfaction, or do you hope to start a=20
> business one day?
> =20
> Looking forward to talking more to you,
> Deena
> =20
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Linda Cutberth
>     *Sent:* Sunday, September 15, 2002 1:34 AM
>     *To:* DL Kankey
>     *Subject:* Re: Fw: Workshop advice
>     =20
>     Hi,
>
>     I am new to this group and new to glass.  I am
>     thinking about working in my garage but I'm concerned
>     about ventilation when working with lead solder.  How
>     do you handle the fumes, etc. when you work in your
>     garage during winter or in the basement?
>
>     Linda
>
>
>
>     __________________________________________________
>     Do you Yahoo!?
>     Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
>     http://news.yahoo.com
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :=20
> http://explorer.msn.com


--=20
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood=20
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Sun Sep 15 22:48:39 2002
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From: "rich cole" <richardcole400@hotmail.com>
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Subject: SOLICITING FOR BUSINESS VENTURE AND PARTNERSHIP. 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:22:07 +0000
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Precedence: bulk



FROM: RICHARD COLE  TELEPHONE: 0031-619708218

EMAIL: richardcole400@hotmail.com

ATTN:

SOLICITING FOR BUSINESS VENTURE AND PARTNERSHIP.

MY NAME IS RICHARD COLE CHAIRMAN OF CONTRACT AWARD AND MONITORING COMMITTEE 
OF THE MINISTRY OF URBAN AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT ,MY DUTY AS EMPOWERED BY THE 
MAURITIUS GOVERNMENT IS TO PROVIDE THE BASIC AMENITIES,SOCIAL RECRATIONAL 
ACTIVITIES IN URBAN AND RURAL AREAS,THIS PROGRAMM INCLUDES ASSISTANCE TO 
DEPRIVED LOCAL COMMUNITIES AND TO CO-ORDINATE PROJECTS AND DEVELOPMENT AT 
THE NATIONAL LEVEL, FURTHERMORE , FROM THIS PROJECTS WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO 
SECURED SOME REASONABLE AMOUNT OF U.S.$21.8(TWENTY ONE MILLION EIGHT HUNDRED 
THOUSAND U.S.DOLLARS ONLY) AS COMISSION FROM VARIOUS CONTRACTORS RESULTING 
FROM OVER INVOICING ,HENCE ALL THE NECESSARRY APPROVALS HAS BEEN COMPLETED.

THESE APPROVED FUND IS NOW PACKAGED TO BE DESPATCHED THROUGH A SECURITY 
COMPANY FOR ONWARD DELIVERY TO ITS DESTINATION IN EUROPE. THESE FUND ARE 
FIRST DEPOSITED INTO A VAULT SECURITY BEFORE WE ARRANGE FOR ITS MOVEMENT TO 
EUROPE THROUGH DIPLOMATIC CHANNEL USING DECOY PURPORTING THAT THE FUND 
BELONGS TO AN EXPATRIATE/COMPANY, AS WE ARE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS,WE ARE NOT 
ALLOWED TO OPERATE FOREIGN BANK ACCOUNT,HENCE WE NEED YOU TO STAND AS THE 
BENEFICIARY AND CLAIM THE FUND ON OUR BEHALF FROM THE SECURITY COMPANY.

PRESENTLY I AM NOW IN EUROPE TO SEARCH FOR A RELIABLE PERSON/COMPANY OF HIGH 
INTERGRITY /DIGNITY AND ONE WITH CONSCIENCE WHO WILL CLAIM THIS FUND ON OUR 
BEHALF AS THE BENEFICIARY ,AND WE HAVE AGREED TO GIVE YOU 25%OF THE TOTAL 
SUM AS COMMISSION FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE/EFFORT.AND 5% WILL BE USED TO SETTLE 
EVERY EXPENSES INCURRED .WE WILL USE 70% TO INVEST UNDER YOUR RECOMMENDATION 
AND GUIDE AND GO INTO JOINT VENTURE BUSINESS WITH YOU.

I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE YOUR ASSISTANCE .ALSO YOU CALL ME ON MY TELEPHONE 
NUMBER  FOR MORE BRIEFING  0031-619708218 AS I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR RESPONSE 
  AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

BEST REGARDS

RICHARD COLE


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 16 07:33:43 2002
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Subject: Workshop
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Wow, thanks everyone for all the great ideas! What a helpful group! I'm a=
 little concerned about the "corrosive atmosphere" one person mentioned. If=
 I vent to the outside, then open the doors and windows to flush out the=
 air when I'm done, will there still be a residue inside? I would like to=
 bring my parrot down there when I'm doing non-chemical type things, but=
 they have very sensitive systems and I don't want to harm her. What do you=
 think?
Lee


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<P>Wow, thanks everyone for all the great ideas! What a helpful group! I'm a 
little concerned about the "corrosive atmosphere" one person mentioned. If I 
vent to the outside, then open the doors and windows to flush out the air when 
I'm done, will there still be a residue inside? I would like to bring my parrot 
down there when I'm doing non-chemical type things, but they have very sensitive 
systems and I don't want to harm her. What do you think?</P>
<P>Lee</P></FONT></BODY></HTML>


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 16 14:17:46 2002
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To: "Lee Clark" <laclark@unm.edu>
Subject: Re: Workshop
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:47:40 +0000
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Precedence: bulk


I would be skeptical about having any sort of pet in a 
work area just for safety reasons...
> Wow, thanks everyone for all the great ideas! What a helpful group! I'm a little 
> concerned about the "corrosive atmosphere" one person mentioned. If I vent to 
> the outside, then open the doors and windows to flush out the air when I'm done, 
> will there still be a residue inside? I would like to bring my parrot down there 
> when I'm doing non-chemical type things, but they have very sensitive systems 
> and I don't want to harm her. What do you think?
> Lee
> 
> 
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 16 15:12:06 2002
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From: S Clayman <the1glassman@yahoo.com>
To: MB <mbeisner@charter.net>, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: table top kiln
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:16:20 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@charter.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Mary,
  Congratulation on your new purchase and entering the
world of fusing.
  You have been given info on the kiln shelves. Now
for info on smaller kilns.
  The larger kilns take a longer time to heat up which
heats up the glass more effecient. In a large kiln
when the Air temp (which is what is measured) reads
1250 the glass might be 1250 if you had a slow ramp
up. In the small kiln the air temp might read 1250 but
since the kiln did not take a long time to ramp up
then your piece probally will not be 1250. When you
find a schedule for firing in the small kiln it will
be a suggestion. You will need to know your kiln
firing schedule and your kiln. I would recommend that
you make a test of your kiln. Make about 20 4X4
squares of glass. Make some even double layer. Put
frit, powder, and cut pieces of glass on each one so
that they are all the same. Then come up with a test
pattern... ie start the first piece at 1250 with a 5
minute hold at 1250 and each subsequent piece go up 25
degrees. Do this till you get the last piece to be
completely fused with no need to go any higher. Then
do the same thing with a 10 minute hold or maybe even
a 15 minute hold and you can see what is happening.
Keep each square and make sure you mark on it what the
firing schedule was so that if  you want a tack fuse,
full fuse ect, you can pull the squares out and see
which one is closest to what you would like.

There are also tests to put pieces around your kiln
and fire it to a certain temp and see if they all
reacted the same way or is there spots that are hotter
than others.

If you have any other questions let me know, I can
probally get you a schedule for a Calderia or a Hot
Box but never heard of your kiln.

Good luck,
Stuart 
--- MB <mbeisner@charter.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> I've recently began to work with a small kiln made
> by Sundance, interior dimensions are 6" x 6"x 12". 
> I'm using Fuse Master Premium Shelf Wash and am
> having problems with it sticking to the glass that
> I'm trying to fuse.  I understand that each kiln is
> different and that the learning curve is great (also
> frustrating!!).  I use about 5 coats of kiln wash on
> the shelf, have the shelf elevated on legs, have
> tried air drying it for 24 hours, also heating it to
> 1300 degrees in the kiln , then letting it cool
> before using it for fusing (all the shelf wash just
> cracks right off and have to start again.grrrrrrr!) 
> I've got the book The Fused Glass Handbook by Gil
> Reynolds, also Making Glass Beads by Cindy Jenkins
> and use these as reference books but are there
> better books for using table top type kilns?  With
> as many problems as I am having, I'm beginning to
> wonder if I spent a small fortune for nothing!  I am
> using Uroboros COE 90 glass for fusing and slumping,
> glass rods for the bead making but don't know their
> COE.  I just haven't had much luck with the fusing
> or the annealing process for the beads, no matter
> how long I let them soak at 1000 degrees, they still
> seem to crack the next day as I'm taking them off
> the mandrels.  
> 
> Does anyone out there have a "cheat sheet" on times
> and temps for fusing for this size kiln?  
> 
> Anyone have any hints on why my beads are cracking? 
> 
> 
> Anyone interested in buying a brand new kiln?LOL 
> Just kidding!  I'm determined to figure this out but
> need some guidance or maybe a good smack on the head
> for even attempting to learn hot glass.  Maybe I
> should just stick to the stained and leaded stuff?  
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help you guys can toss my
> way.  Good luck with all your projects!
> Mary
> 


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 16 15:22:37 2002
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From: <sonyaamt@mindspring.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Software
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:58:59 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>
Precedence: bulk

I need everyone's opinion.  I am a hobbyist hoping to turn professional glass
artist.  I am also a graphic artist and have very sophisticated graphics
programs to help me design my pieces.  However it hasn't been an exact science
because when I print them at kinko's the lead/copper foil lines are never
accurate.  I however surmise that there is always give in my designs so if I
use the right shears my pieces have been turning out beautifully.

I am considering Glass Eye software and wanted to know if this is a worthwhile
purchase or does my graphic software (Photoshop) work just as well.  I know
the advanced features of Glass Eye and it is compelling.  But I am curious
what the opinion of this list is.  If you run a professional shop do you use
Glass Eye or something else.  What is your opinion?

Thank you,

Sonya Amt
Atlanta, Georgia
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 16 16:55:30 2002
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Subject: Re: Glass Software
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:15:23 -0500
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Sonya,

I use both AutoCad and Corel PhotoPaint/Draw for making patterns. I tried
Pattern Wizard ($35 or so) which pretty much does the same thing as Glass
Eye 2000, but after a year or so, I retried Glass Eye and decided to
splurge! Depending on what I'm making I use one or the other - but do use
Glass Eye more often. The patterns and options with GE are more varied and I
think the customer service/support is well worth it.

Good Luck!

Marci
Martin Designs
www.mmartindesigns.com


----- Original Message -----
From: <sonyaamt@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 4:58 PM
Subject: Glass Software


> I need everyone's opinion.  I am a hobbyist hoping to turn professional
glass
> artist.  I am also a graphic artist and have very sophisticated graphics
> programs to help me design my pieces.  However it hasn't been an exact
science
> because when I print them at kinko's the lead/copper foil lines are never
> accurate.  I however surmise that there is always give in my designs so if
I
> use the right shears my pieces have been turning out beautifully.
>
> I am considering Glass Eye software and wanted to know if this is a
worthwhile
> purchase or does my graphic software (Photoshop) work just as well.  I
know
> the advanced features of Glass Eye and it is compelling.  But I am curious
> what the opinion of this list is.  If you run a professional shop do you
use
> Glass Eye or something else.  What is your opinion?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Sonya Amt
> Atlanta, Georgia
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 16 17:08:43 2002
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Tatt2LizID@aol.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Carnauba Wax
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:38:30 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@slonet.org>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Carnuaba wax is the major ingredient in the KemPro Glass Finishing
Compound.  The cost of car wax and the sg wax is about the same.  PJ

On Sat, 14 Sep 2002 Tatt2LizID@aol.com wrote:

> I believe carnauba wax is a major ingredient in auto wax.
> 

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 16 18:29:58 2002
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Subject: Re: table top kiln
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 00:27:35 +0100
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What a thoughtful and excellent piece of advice!!
Thank you Stuart!
A wonderful and generous website for all kiln work is Brad Walker's site.
I recommend it to anyone starting out with kiln work. Helpful, friendly and
easy-to-follow. I cannot praise enough Brad's hard work and generosity as
regards sharing his knowledge and enthusiasm about kiln work
www.warmglass.com

Spectrum Glass also run a very helpful kiln fusing site.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (still going strong!)

> Mary,
>   Congratulation on your new purchase and entering the
> world of fusing.
>   You have been given info on the kiln shelves. Now
> for info on smaller kilns.
>   The larger kilns take a longer time to heat up which
> heats up the glass more effecient. In a large kiln
> when the Air temp (which is what is measured) reads
> 1250 the glass might be 1250 if you had a slow ramp
> up. In the small kiln the air temp might read 1250 but
> since the kiln did not take a long time to ramp up
> then your piece probally will not be 1250. When you
> find a schedule for firing in the small kiln it will
> be a suggestion. You will need to know your kiln
> firing schedule and your kiln. I would recommend that
> you make a test of your kiln. Make about 20 4X4
> squares of glass. Make some even double layer. Put
> frit, powder, and cut pieces of glass on each one so
> that they are all the same. Then come up with a test
> pattern... ie start the first piece at 1250 with a 5
> minute hold at 1250 and each subsequent piece go up 25
> degrees. Do this till you get the last piece to be
> completely fused with no need to go any higher. Then
> do the same thing with a 10 minute hold or maybe even
> a 15 minute hold and you can see what is happening.
> Keep each square and make sure you mark on it what the
> firing schedule was so that if  you want a tack fuse,
> full fuse ect, you can pull the squares out and see
> which one is closest to what you would like.
>
> There are also tests to put pieces around your kiln
> and fire it to a certain temp and see if they all
> reacted the same way or is there spots that are hotter
> than others.
>
> If you have any other questions let me know, I can
> probally get you a schedule for a Calderia or a Hot
> Box but never heard of your kiln.
>
> Good luck,
> Stuart
> --- MB <mbeisner@charter.net> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I've recently began to work with a small kiln made
> > by Sundance, interior dimensions are 6" x 6"x 12".
> > I'm using Fuse Master Premium Shelf Wash and am
> > having problems with it sticking to the glass that
> > I'm trying to fuse.  I understand that each kiln is
> > different and that the learning curve is great (also
> > frustrating!!).  I use about 5 coats of kiln wash on
> > the shelf, have the shelf elevated on legs, have
> > tried air drying it for 24 hours, also heating it to
> > 1300 degrees in the kiln , then letting it cool
> > before using it for fusing (all the shelf wash just
> > cracks right off and have to start again.grrrrrrr!)
> > I've got the book The Fused Glass Handbook by Gil
> > Reynolds, also Making Glass Beads by Cindy Jenkins
> > and use these as reference books but are there
> > better books for using table top type kilns?  With
> > as many problems as I am having, I'm beginning to
> > wonder if I spent a small fortune for nothing!  I am
> > using Uroboros COE 90 glass for fusing and slumping,
> > glass rods for the bead making but don't know their
> > COE.  I just haven't had much luck with the fusing
> > or the annealing process for the beads, no matter
> > how long I let them soak at 1000 degrees, they still
> > seem to crack the next day as I'm taking them off
> > the mandrels.
> >
> > Does anyone out there have a "cheat sheet" on times
> > and temps for fusing for this size kiln?
> >
> > Anyone have any hints on why my beads are cracking?
> >
> >
> > Anyone interested in buying a brand new kiln?LOL
> > Just kidding!  I'm determined to figure this out but
> > need some guidance or maybe a good smack on the head
> > for even attempting to learn hot glass.  Maybe I
> > should just stick to the stained and leaded stuff?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help you guys can toss my
> > way.  Good luck with all your projects!
> > Mary
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 16 18:48:46 2002
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Subject: Re: Glass Software
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 00:51:09 +0100
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Dear Sonya (et al)
I  was asked (some years ago now) to evaluate the very first Glass Eye
software. I had never used any kind of CAD programme before and struggled
just to get to terms with my limited computer system. I had wonderful
back-up from Michael and his team. GlassEye has since progressed forward in
leaps and bounds. I can highly recommend it. Christie Woods did a serious
critique of the GlassEye software a year or so ago in the "Common Ground
Glass" Magazine published by IGGA (www.igga.org). Shewas very complimentary
and her couple of reservations  made at the time,were all  addressed and
solved by GlassEye very quickly since. When I had to replace my "old"
GlassEye programme for the new GlassEye2000, I had no hesitation.
I use it for teaching, I encourage my "advanced" students to get it for
themselves.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK



> I need everyone's opinion.  I am a hobbyist hoping to turn professional
glass
> artist.  I am also a graphic artist and have very sophisticated graphics
> programs to help me design my pieces.  However it hasn't been an exact
science
> because when I print them at kinko's the lead/copper foil lines are never
> accurate.  I however surmise that there is always give in my designs so if
I
> use the right shears my pieces have been turning out beautifully.
>
> I am considering Glass Eye software and wanted to know if this is a
worthwhile
> purchase or does my graphic software (Photoshop) work just as well.  I
know
> the advanced features of Glass Eye and it is compelling.  But I am curious
> what the opinion of this list is.  If you run a professional shop do you
use
> Glass Eye or something else.  What is your opinion?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Sonya Amt
> Atlanta, Georgia
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 17 07:26:43 2002
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Subject: Re: Glass Software
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At 17:58 16/09/2002 -0400, Sonya wrote:
>
>I am considering Glass Eye software and wanted to know if this is a worthwhile 
>purchase or does my graphic software (Photoshop) work just as well.  I know
>the advanced features of Glass Eye and it is compelling.  But I am curious
>what the opinion of this list is.  If you run a professional shop do you use
>Glass Eye or something else.  What is your opinion?

Sonya - For many years I used Coreldraw 4 which I found very accurate and
(though it had a fairly long learning curve) thought I couldnt improve on it.

After insisting for several years that I didnt need to buy 'specialised
stained glass software for hobbyists' as I had a perfectly good thing going
with what I already used, I gave in and downloaded Glasseye, Pattern Wizard
and the American Bevel software to see what they could do for me.
In those days (a few years ago) you couldnt do much with the trial versions
so I didnt really bother to learn how to use them and carried on using my
Coreldraw.

This year however I had a couple of students who had got Glasseye from
Dragonfly software (www.dfly.com) and needed help in using it to its
potential, so I downloaded the trial copy again.  
This time I actually worked through the tutorials and found - as it is now a
30-day use of the full $99 version - it really is very useful.  
I liked it so much that I bought the pro version which allows exporting in
extra formats and has more jpegs of glass samples - I also bought the manual
so I could take it into evening classes at the local college and be able to
discuss problems the students were having with it.
Suffice it to say - I now use it all the time.

It is so easy to scan or import any picture onto the screen and after only a
few minutes of tracing over the lines there you have a line drawing of the
design that you can play with, change colours/textures to give clients an
idea of what different glass will do for the design, change lead came widths
and resize in a moment.
Clients are sooo impressed when I just bring up their design and alter it to
fit their next new idea of colour scheme!  I can easily and quickly simplify
designs down to a budget if they want - though usually they then decide to
go for the more expensive option!
And of course then you can print out a full-sized cartoon with heart widths
and/or face widths.  We have an A3 printer and so with a bit of juggling
around with paper sizes (feeding in cutdown wrapping paper 13" x 19" is most
useful) I can print out most patterns with only a few pieces of paper to
stick together.
You can also type in costs of glass and lead and amend the default settings
to take into account your own base prices, as it calculates how much of each
glass is used as well as number of pieces etc.

The main problems I had were:
Making sure the pieces count was accurate - needed to check for sufficient
'knots' to enclose all the spaces properly but once you get used to this it
takes very little time.
Getting the panel size correct - the 'dimension' function sets the panel
measurements to the centre of the heart line, not the outside edge of the
border lead so you have to set your dimensions to allow for this or the
finished panel works out oversized.
Only being able to use it on one computer unless you go through the
rigmarole of removing and transferring the licence then doing it in reverse
next day - means I no longer work on designs at home, which perhaps is not a
bad thing!  But it is possible to buy an 'extra' licence for a little extra
to use on more than one computer, which I may do one day.

But now we have been using this for several months I find it takes much less
time to draw up, is easy to get accurate 'mirrored' patterns and is a most
useful tool.  
Also the designs are all on the computer so they can easily be re-vamped for
other commissions or exported to use in leaflets, adverts etc. 
Another bonus is that the file format (.eye) seems to take much less disc
space - at least a 10th of the space that corel (.cdr) formats do, so it is
easy to backup and store on disc.

So - more than anyone would want to know about my learning curve and
experience of using Glasseye!!

Hope it was of some help to any bungians trying to decide if it is worth using.

Regards
EliZabeth in UK
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
UK Charter Member RAGS


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 17 07:58:34 2002
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Subject: Re: Glass Software
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I have also made the switch from Graphic Arts to Glass Art and find my 
graphics software (Illustrator & Photoshop mainly) to be very useful, dont 
think you would need a glass eye product, especially if you are creating your 
own custom designs. Another thing to keep in mind is that most glass software 
is not Mac compatable, if that's what your running. I would suggest using 
what you have until your business is a success, then perhaps upgrading!

Libby Imbody
Walhalla Art Works
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 17 08:59:05 2002
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Hi all, 
Thanks for all of your help.  I am the one with the  57 x 57 window for a bed 
& breakfast located on a golf course. 
 My design is drawn and customer approved everything. If you remember my 
previous question.  I wanted to do a photo of the owners mother and father on 
their wedding day.  It is a beautifull picture of the couple with the bride 
holding calla lillies and taken in the 1920's. My design is regtangle with an 
arch going to the top of the window,sectioned off with mutton bars to match 
the other old windows, 
and an oval in the center of  it looks like a cameo with calla lillies and 
leaves around the bottom and the sides of the cameo.
 Now I have another question. 

 I am having Rayzist do the photo on "crystal glass" (recommended to me by 
Josh) then putting black glass behind the photo.
The crystal glass is 3/8" ( they could not bevel the edge) the black art 
glass is 1/8".   
How do I go about putting them together.  Is there an 3/8" channel to house 
the crystal glass then put channel around the 1/8" then solder together.   Do 
you have any idea as to how to do this and where to get this size of channel?
  I must mention this whole window will be insulated with tempered glass but 
I am ok on the thickness as I have plenty of room.
Nothing is ever easy,  and everything is a learning experience.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.  When this project is finished if you 
would like a picture of it just let me know>
Thanks Again, Bob

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hi all, <BR>
Thanks for all of your help.&nbsp; I am the one with the&nbsp; 57 x 57 window for a bed &amp; breakfast located on a golf course. <BR>
 My design is drawn and customer approved everything. If you remember my previous question.&nbsp; I wanted to do a photo of the owners mother and father on their wedding day.&nbsp; It is a beautifull picture of the couple with the bride holding calla lillies and taken in the 1920's. My design is regtangle with an arch going to the top of the window,sectioned off with mutton bars to match the other old windows, <BR>
and an oval in the center of&nbsp; it looks like a cameo with calla lillies and leaves around the bottom and the sides of the cameo.<BR>
 Now I have another question. <BR>
<BR>
 I am having Rayzist do the photo on "crystal glass" (recommended to me by Josh) then putting black glass behind the photo.<BR>
The crystal glass is 3/8" ( they could not bevel the edge) the black art glass is 1/8".&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
How do I go about putting them together.&nbsp; Is there an 3/8" channel to house the crystal glass then put channel around the 1/8" then solder together.&nbsp;&nbsp; Do you have any idea as to how to do this and where to get this size of channel?<BR>
&nbsp; I must mention this whole window will be insulated with tempered glass but I am ok on the thickness as I have plenty of room.<BR>
Nothing is ever easy,&nbsp; and everything is a learning experience.<BR>
Any help will be greatly appreciated.&nbsp; When this project is finished if you would like a picture of it just let me know&gt;<BR>
Thanks Again, Bob</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 17 11:15:23 2002
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Subject: Re: Glass Software
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:46:26 -0700 (PDT)
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I would also not recommend purchasing their standard
version.  They remove the most important feature of
being able to use glass samples, and only allow you to
use the function when you have paid for the
professional edition.  
I didn't realize this until AFTER I purchased the
product.  The demo was supposed to be for the standard
version, so I assumed that anything I could do in the
demo, I could do with the standard version.  I was
wrong.
Photoshop should work just fine instead of the
standard version of glasseye.  The only way it's worth
it is if you buy the professional version, which is
pricey.

Stefanie


--- CImbody@aol.com wrote:
> I have also made the switch from Graphic Arts to
> Glass Art and find my 
> graphics software (Illustrator & Photoshop mainly)
> to be very useful, dont 
> think you would need a glass eye product, especially
> if you are creating your 
> own custom designs. Another thing to keep in mind is
> that most glass software 
> is not Mac compatable, if that's what your running.
> I would suggest using 
> what you have until your business is a success, then
> perhaps upgrading!
> 
> Libby Imbody
> Walhalla Art Works
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to:
> glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 17 12:45:40 2002
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Subject: Glass Software
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I want to say thank you to everyone that responded to my question regarding
GlassEye.  You've definitely sold me and I am hanging on to your emails to
remind me all the ways that I can use the software to both make my design
process better and to wow customers.  

This group is great - thank you!

Sonya
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 17 13:09:23 2002
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Subject: Re: Glass Software
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"They remove the most important feature of
> being able to use glass samples"

I went thru that too . . . .I suppose if you have a great camera and
scanner you can take pictures of your glass - or you can download
.jpg's of sample glass from Spectrum, etc. and you can use those as
"fill" colors while using PhotoShop and Corel . . . but the
convenience of GlassEye is really nice . . . 


On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Stefanie Brown wrote:

> I would also not recommend purchasing their standard
> version.  They remove the most important feature of
> being able to use glass samples, and only allow you to
> use the function when you have paid for the
> professional edition.  
> I didn't realize this until AFTER I purchased the
> product.  The demo was supposed to be for the standard
> version, so I assumed that anything I could do in the
> demo, I could do with the standard version.  I was
> wrong.
> Photoshop should work just fine instead of the
> standard version of glasseye.  The only way it's worth
> it is if you buy the professional version, which is
> pricey.
> 
> Stefanie
> 
> 
> --- CImbody@aol.com wrote:
> > I have also made the switch from Graphic Arts to
> > Glass Art and find my 
> > graphics software (Illustrator & Photoshop mainly)
> > to be very useful, dont 
> > think you would need a glass eye product, especially
> > if you are creating your 
> > own custom designs. Another thing to keep in mind is
> > that most glass software 
> > is not Mac compatable, if that's what your running.
> > I would suggest using 
> > what you have until your business is a success, then
> > perhaps upgrading!
> > 
> > Libby Imbody
> > Walhalla Art Works
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to:
> > glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to:
> > glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
> =====
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 17 23:46:44 2002
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Subject: Re: Glass Software
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:17:01 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
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In a message dated 09/17/2002 2:29:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
xcyclone@yahoo.com writes:


> I would also not recommend purchasing their standard
> version.  They remove the most important feature of
> being able to use glass samples, and only allow you to
> use the function when you have paid for the
> professional edition.  

Appreciate your comments on Glass Eye.  Do you mean that the standard $99 
version will not allow the user to use even his own glass samples that he or 
she may have on disc from the glass manufacturers or may have downloaded from 
their sites?
Or do you mean that the $99 version just does not have any glass samples?

Jim Kelly
Gcanvas @aol.com

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 09/17/2002 2:29:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, xcyclone@yahoo.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I would also not recommend purchasing their standard<BR>
version.&nbsp; They remove the most important feature of<BR>
being able to use glass samples, and only allow you to<BR>
use the function when you have paid for the<BR>
professional edition.&nbsp; </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Appreciate your comments on Glass Eye.&nbsp; Do you mean that the standard $99 version will not allow the user to use even his own glass samples that he or she may have on disc from the glass manufacturers or may have downloaded from their sites?<BR>
Or do you mean that the $99 version just does not have any glass samples?<BR>
<BR>
Jim Kelly<BR>
Gcanvas @aol.com</FONT></HTML>

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Placer County Office of Education's Virus software, Antigen for Exchange,
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 18 04:57:03 2002
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X-Path: doorpi.net!mmam5
From: "Marci" <mmam5@doorpi.net>
To: <Gcanvas@aol.com>, <xcyclone@yahoo.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
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	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C25EDA.737C4280"
Subject: Re: Glass Software
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:13:05 -0500
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
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If I remember right - it doesn't allow the use of "any" glass samples. . =
.   I have many downloaded samples of glass that I use with Pattern =
Wizard - and wasn't able to use those with the standard version.

Marci
Door County, WI
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Gcanvas@aol.com=20
  To: xcyclone@yahoo.com ; glass@bungi.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:17 PM
  Subject: Re: Glass Software


  In a message dated 09/17/2002 2:29:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, =
xcyclone@yahoo.com writes:



    I would also not recommend purchasing their standard
    version.  They remove the most important feature of
    being able to use glass samples, and only allow you to
    use the function when you have paid for the
    professional edition. =20


  Appreciate your comments on Glass Eye.  Do you mean that the standard =
$99 version will not allow the user to use even his own glass samples =
that he or she may have on disc from the glass manufacturers or may have =
downloaded from their sites?
  Or do you mean that the $99 version just does not have any glass =
samples?

  Jim Kelly
  Gcanvas @aol.com=20

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If I remember right - it doesn't allow =
the use of=20
"any" glass samples. . .&nbsp;&nbsp; I have many downloaded samples of =
glass=20
that I use with Pattern Wizard - and wasn't able to use those with the =
standard=20
version.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Marci</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Door County, WI</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DGcanvas@aol.com =
href=3D"mailto:Gcanvas@aol.com">Gcanvas@aol.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dxcyclone@yahoo.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:xcyclone@yahoo.com">xcyclone@yahoo.com</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dglass@bungi.com =
href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 17, =
2002 10:17=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Glass =
Software</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>In a =
message dated=20
  09/17/2002 2:29:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:xcyclone@yahoo.com">xcyclone@yahoo.com</A> =
writes:<BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
  TYPE=3D"CITE">I would also not recommend purchasing their=20
    standard<BR>version.&nbsp; They remove the most important feature=20
    of<BR>being able to use glass samples, and only allow you to<BR>use =
the=20
    function when you have paid for the<BR>professional edition.&nbsp;=20
  </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Appreciate your comments on Glass Eye.&nbsp; Do =
you mean=20
  that the standard $99 version will not allow the user to use even his =
own=20
  glass samples that he or she may have on disc from the glass =
manufacturers or=20
  may have downloaded from their sites?<BR>Or do you mean that the $99 =
version=20
  just does not have any glass samples?<BR><BR>Jim Kelly<BR>Gcanvas=20
  @aol.com</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 18 07:07:03 2002
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From: Kevin Luyt <kevin@logtek.co.za>
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Subject: RE: Glass Software
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 14:50:47 +0200
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Hi Guys
 
Please un-subscribe this e-mail address as it is my e-mail at work I will
re-subscribe from home.
 
Regards
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: Marci [mailto:mmam5@doorpi.net]
Sent: 18 September 2002 01:13
To: Gcanvas@aol.com; xcyclone@yahoo.com; glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Software
If I remember right - it doesn't allow the use of "any" glass samples. . .
I have many downloaded samples of glass that I use with Pattern Wizard - and
wasn't able to use those with the standard version.
 
Marci
Door County, WI
----- Original Message ----- 

From: Gcanvas@aol.com <mailto:Gcanvas@aol.com>  
To: xcyclone@yahoo.com <mailto:xcyclone@yahoo.com>  ; glass@bungi.com
<mailto:glass@bungi.com>  
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: Glass Software
 
In a message dated 09/17/2002 2:29:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
xcyclone@yahoo.com <mailto:xcyclone@yahoo.com>  writes:




I would also not recommend purchasing their standard
version.  They remove the most important feature of
being able to use glass samples, and only allow you to
use the function when you have paid for the
professional edition.  


Appreciate your comments on Glass Eye.  Do you mean that the standard $99
version will not allow the user to use even his own glass samples that he or
she may have on disc from the glass manufacturers or may have downloaded
from their sites?
Or do you mean that the $99 version just does not have any glass samples?

Jim Kelly
Gcanvas @aol.com 

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/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Please un-subscribe this e-mail =
address as
it is my e-mail at work I will re-subscribe from =
home.</span></font><font
color=3Dblue><span =
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/p>

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
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/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Marci
[mailto:mmam5@doorpi.net]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 18 September 2002 =
01:13<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Gcanvas@aol.com;
xcyclone@yahoo.com; glass@bungi.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Glass =
Software</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>If I remember right - it doesn't =
allow the
use of &quot;any&quot; glass samples. . .&nbsp;&nbsp; I have many =
downloaded
samples of glass that I use with Pattern Wizard - and wasn't able to =
use those
with the standard version.</span></font><font color=3Dblue><span
style=3D'color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>&nbsp;</span></font><font =
color=3Dblue><span
style=3D'color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Marci</span></font><font =
color=3Dblue><span
style=3D'color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Door County, WI</span></font><font
color=3Dblue><span =
style=3D'color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>-----
Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-color-alt:win=
dowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:s=
olid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;
font-weight:bold'>

<div style=3D'font-color:black'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> <a
href=3D"mailto:Gcanvas@aol.com" =
title=3D"Gcanvas@aol.com">Gcanvas@aol.com</a> </span></font></div>

<font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> <a
href=3D"mailto:xcyclone@yahoo.com" title=3D"xcyclone@yahoo.com">xcyclone=
@yahoo.com</a>
; <a href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com" =
title=3D"glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</a> </span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> Tuesday, =
September 17,
2002 10:17 PM</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-color-alt:win=
dowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> Re: Glass =
Software</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dblue><span =
style=3D'color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>In a
message dated 09/17/2002 2:29:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <a
href=3D"mailto:xcyclone@yahoo.com">xcyclone@yahoo.com</a> writes:<br>
<br>
<br style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-color-alt:win=
dowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:
0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I would also =
not
recommend purchasing their standard<br>
version.&nbsp; They remove the most important feature of<br>
being able to use glass samples, and only allow you to<br>
use the function when you have paid for the<br>
professional edition.&nbsp; </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;mso-color-alt:win=
dowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
<br>
Appreciate your comments on Glass Eye.&nbsp; Do you mean that the =
standard $99
version will not allow the user to use even his own glass samples that =
he or
she may have on disc from the glass manufacturers or may have =
downloaded from
their sites?<br>
Or do you mean that the $99 version just does not have any glass =
samples?<br>
<br>
Jim Kelly<br>
Gcanvas @aol.com</span></font><font color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:blue'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dblue><span
style=3D'color:blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 18 11:01:30 2002
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: yahoo.com!xcyclone
From: Stefanie Brown <xcyclone@yahoo.com>
To: Gcanvas@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glass Software
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:29:35 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
References: <<80.21acb059.2ab94a2d@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

You can not use ANY glass samples or any imported
patterns with the standard version of glass eye.  You
CAN select a color from their palatte, and apply a
pattern to it to somewhat resemble stained glass, but
thats about it.  
I want to say that I would recommend the pro version,
but definately not the standard edition.


--- Gcanvas@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 09/17/2002 2:29:36 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time, 
> xcyclone@yahoo.com writes:
> 
> 
> > I would also not recommend purchasing their
> standard
> > version.  They remove the most important feature
> of
> > being able to use glass samples, and only allow
> you to
> > use the function when you have paid for the
> > professional edition.  
> 
> Appreciate your comments on Glass Eye.  Do you mean
> that the standard $99 
> version will not allow the user to use even his own
> glass samples that he or 
> she may have on disc from the glass manufacturers or
> may have downloaded from 
> their sites?
> Or do you mean that the $99 version just does not
> have any glass samples?
> 
> Jim Kelly
> Gcanvas @aol.com
> 


=====


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
http://news.yahoo.com
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 18 15:25:10 2002
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio
From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: comparing glass eye versions - hobby or pro edition?
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:46:21 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stainedglass.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Here is what Dragonfly say you get with each version:

Glass Eye 2000 Standard Edition $99 
This is our stained glass software for hobbyists, containing the essential
features. You'll have tools to draw your own lines, curves, circles, and
polygons. Change line width and color. Arrange your lines with tools for
resizing, rotating, stretching, flipping, and reflecting. Align your pattern
elements with grids, crosshairs, and rulers. When adding glass to your
design, choose from an unlimited color palette and fifteen glass textures.
Import and export BMP and JPEG images. Access our entire design library of
over 340 patterns. Bring in scanned images. If you wish, turn on piece
numbering or produce a bill of materials. 

Glass Eye 2000 Professional Edition $225 
In addition to all the features of the Standard Edition, the Professional
Edition goes even further: 
Glass library of over 1800 glass samples from Armstrong, Bullseye, Kokomo,
Spectrum, Uroboros, Wissmach, and Youghiogheny
Extend the glass library with your own glass samples
Text in unlimited fonts and colors
More import/export file types, including TIFF, PNG, PCX, and DXF
Assign names and prices to glass and textured colors
Piece numbering by color or location, or assign numbers to pieces manually
Extended customer support 

Or go to http://www.dfly.com/comparison.html and you can see a chart
comparing both 'Editions'

I would say that if you were not intending to use opalescent glass in your
panels - as in most traditional leaded stained glass windows over here in UK
that the $99 version would probably enable you to show most cathedral types
of texture.
But if you want to use opalescents you really would need the $255 version.

Regards
Elizabeth in Bournemouth
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 18 17:37:11 2002
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X-Path: aol.com!Gcanvas
From: Gcanvas@aol.com
To: studio@stainedglass.co.uk, glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: comparing glass eye versions - hobby or pro edition?
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:53:05 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks all for your quick and excellent info on the Glass Eye versions.  I'll 
have to think twice before jumping into the expensive version.  BTW, if you 
buy the $99 version and decide to move up to the $255 version, does Glass Eye 
offer any discount to do so?  Do you just pay the difference?  Or must you 
pop for the whole $255?

Jim Kelly
Gcanvas @aol.com
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 18 19:11:47 2002
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:40:38 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: doorpi.net!mmam5
From: "Marci" <mmam5@doorpi.net>
To: <Gcanvas@aol.com>, <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: comparing glass eye versions - hobby or pro edition?
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:24:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@doorpi.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

You do get a discount by buying the standard and upgrading - -  Extra
licenses cost $50.

I corresponded with Michael Wilk - admin@dfly.com - -  he can answer any
questions you have - was very nice to work with.   Good Luck!

Marci
Martin Designs
www.mmartindesigns.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <Gcanvas@aol.com>
To: <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: comparing glass eye versions - hobby or pro edition?


> Thanks all for your quick and excellent info on the Glass Eye versions.
I'll
> have to think twice before jumping into the expensive version.  BTW, if
you
> buy the $99 version and decide to move up to the $255 version, does Glass
Eye
> offer any discount to do so?  Do you just pay the difference?  Or must you
> pop for the whole $255?
>
> Jim Kelly
> Gcanvas @aol.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 18 19:21:31 2002
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From: Gcanvas@aol.com
To: mmam5@doorpi.net, glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_62.26044797.2aba85a0_boundary"
Subject: Re: comparing glass eye versions - hobby or pro edition?
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:42:56 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk


--part1_62.26044797.2aba85a0_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 09/18/2002 9:31:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
mmam5@doorpi.net writes:


> You do get a discount by buying the standard and upgrading - -  Extra
> licenses cost $50.
> 
> I corresponded with Michael Wilk - admin@dfly.com - -  he can answer any
> questions you have - was very nice to work with.   Good Luck!
>   

Thanks Marci.




Jim Kelly
Gcanvas @aol.com

--part1_62.26044797.2aba85a0_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 09/18/2002 9:31:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mmam5@doorpi.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">You do get a discount by buying the standard and upgrading - -&nbsp; Extra<BR>
licenses cost $50.<BR>
<BR>
I corresponded with Michael Wilk - admin@dfly.com - -&nbsp; he can answer any<BR>
questions you have - was very nice to work with.&nbsp;&nbsp; Good Luck!<BR>
&nbsp; </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thanks Marci.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jim Kelly<BR>
Gcanvas @aol.com</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 18 19:45:29 2002
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X-Path: mailer-prepaid.com!todd03
From: Todd Pitts <todd03@mailer-prepaid.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="abf798a3-c3c9-4335-acbf-226a1dfc505f"
Subject: FW: A Favor
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:20:42 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format
--abf798a3-c3c9-4335-acbf-226a1dfc505f
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A friend of mine is starting an on-line business. He asked me if I would =
forward this link, <a href=3D=
"http://speedyprepaid.prepaidonline/">http://speedyprepaid.prepaidonline/</a>=
, to a few people.<br><br> 
It looks to me like their prepaid long distance service is a good value. It's =
a quick, easy way to buy long distance minutes for U.S.  and international =
calls.
Take a look, if you think if its something you could use, please make a =
purchase.  If not, thanks for reading this e-mail.<br><br>
-Todd
--abf798a3-c3c9-4335-acbf-226a1dfc505f--

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 19 07:50:27 2002
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X-Path: mindspring.com!sonyaamt
From: <sonyaamt@mindspring.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: When is a crack a repair?
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:02:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>
Precedence: bulk

I am a perfectionist when it comes to glass, but I have a Tiffany design that
I have just completed that I have heavily used Youghiogheny and Bullseye glass
throughout.  I noticed when I put it up to the light that 3 pieces had runner
cracks.  But when you look at the other pieces there are
cracks/wrinkles/imperfections throughout.  So what warrants a repair or does a
crack lend to the "uniqueness" of the glass?  How do you determine if it is
structural?  Also I have heard of people just placing foil over the crack and
hiding it with solder?  Is this an appropriate method?

Thank you,

Sonya
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 19 08:23:00 2002
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X-Path: mindspring.com!sonyaamt
From: <sonyaamt@mindspring.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: When is a crack a repair? (fwd)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:40:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>
Precedence: bulk

I am a perfectionist when it comes to glass, but I have a Tiffany design that
I have just completed that I have heavily used Youghiogheny and Bullseye glass
throughout.  I noticed when I put it up to the light that 3 pieces had runner
cracks.  But when you look at the other pieces there are
cracks/wrinkles/imperfections throughout.  So what warrants a repair or does a
crack lend to the "uniqueness" of the glass?  How do you determine if it is
structural?  Also I have heard of people just placing foil over the crack and
hiding it with solder?  Is this an appropriate method?



Thank you,



Sonya

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 20 00:12:43 2002
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Stephen Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: sonyaamt@mindspring.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
Subject: Re: When is a crack a repair?
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:30:11 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>>
Precedence: bulk

I think we are talking about quality here.

If it is a product for sale, turn the question of acceptability around 
and ask if you would accept an item with cracks in it?
One possibility is to sell it as a second.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>, sonyaamt@mindspring.com 
writes
>I am a perfectionist when it comes to glass, but I have a Tiffany design that
>I have just completed that I have heavily used Youghiogheny and Bullseye glass
>throughout.  I noticed when I put it up to the light that 3 pieces had runner
>cracks.  But when you look at the other pieces there are
>cracks/wrinkles/imperfections throughout.  So what warrants a repair or does a
>crack lend to the "uniqueness" of the glass?  How do you determine if it is
>structural?  Also I have heard of people just placing foil over the crack and
>hiding it with solder?  Is this an appropriate method?
>
>Thank you,
>
>Sonya
>----
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-- 

Stephen Richard, Verrier
"Glass on Parade"
Glasgow, Scotland
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 20 08:27:01 2002
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Subject: repairing a leaded pane
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:44:12 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

I'm repairing a single piece of glue chip in a leaded pane. The repair was 
simple, but the pane is old and I want to keep the natural patina of the 
solder. Is there a trick for aging the silver of the solder patch to make it 
blend in with the original work?

Kathy
Topsail Island, NC
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Subject: stained glass heather pattern?
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:06:01 -0700
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Anyone out there know where I can find a pattern for heather?   Yes, I =
know I can make my own, however it has way too many pieces and I'm at a =
loss to figure out how to simplify it.

Carol

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<DIV>Anyone out there know where I can find a pattern for =
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<DIV>Carol</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 20 10:14:01 2002
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Have you tried using black patina?  Or just rub some black mud over the =
solder, let it sit, then rub off lightly.  Either way should work if the =
lead is old and tarnished.  Good luck!
Mary

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Subject: Window gaps
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I want to construct a 21" square window using copper foil framed with 1/2"
zinc and before I cut out the cartoon I was wondering if you could tell me
what the required gap between the window frame and the outside edge of the
piece itself should be.  I was going to install it with rubber bumpers on
the bottom and hold it in place with wood stripping.

Thanks so much
Shirley


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Subject: Get the hidden jobs. . . .
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========================================================
Job Tip of the Week                   September 22, 2002
========================================================
 
         TAPPING INTO THE HIDDEN JOB MARKET...

========================================================

Greetings!

If you're currently in the job market, here's the little
known secret to tapping into the most lucrative, yet 
hidden jobs available.

Even in this economy, there's still millions of great 
jobs out there. It's just that many of the best ones 
never make their way to the classifieds. Instead, 
they're taken by people who know about them before 
they're ever advertised.

Imagine having thousands of friends who always tell you
about unadvertised jobs you'd be perfect for?

As they say, it's not what you know it's who you know. 
The secret is to make friends out of really good 
recruiters. And not just a few of them, but lots of 
them. The ones who care about getting you a job and 
have several jobs they're trying to fill. Then you
need to get your resume to all of them fast!

Now doing that is easy at http://www.resumemailman.com

ResumeMailman.com will instantly put your resume 
directly into the hands of 1000's of America's 
VERY  BEST recruiters!

The ResumeMailman network is filled with talented 
recruiters that have connections to tons of unadvertised
jobs. Your resume is instantly emailed to 1000's of 
recruiters in YOUR selected areas, specializing in YOUR
selected skill sets.

And the whole thing can be done in about 10 minutes flat!
You can even get a free confidential email address with 
your order AND receive a contact list of all the 
recruiters who received your resume!

Just check out http://www.resumemailman.com - it's easy.

While you're there, review the testimonials. You'll see
first hand how they've helped thousands of others to 
get great interviews and land great jobs - BEFORE 
they're advertised.

Even if you have a job, in this market its a good idea
to keep your feelers out. With the current economy, you
never quite know what's going to happen.

Give yourself the competitive edge and interview for 
the "hidden" jobs. They say there's strength in numbers. 
Why not put a number of recruiters to work for you?

Sincerely,


Jim Langer
Manager
j-langer@execs-direct.com

========================================================

The staff of Execs-Direct.com have years of recruiting
experience and may from time to time send you a review 
of career tips and tools that have helped others in 
their job search. If you'd rather not receive these 
reviews go to http://www.execs-direct.com/unsubscribe

========================================================
(c) 2002, Execs-Direct.com
========================================================
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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<html>

<head>
<title>Job Tip of the Week</title>
</head>
<body>
<div align=3D"center">
<br>
  <table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"424">
    <tr>
      <td valign=3D"middle" align=3D"center" bgcolor=3D"#000080">
<div align=3D"center">
<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"420" bgc=
olor=3D"#FFFFFF">
  <tr>
    <td width=3D"252" bgcolor=3D"#000080" height=3D"35">
      <p align=3D"left"><b><font face=3D"Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif" size=
=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFFFF">=A0=A0=A0Job Tip of the Week</font></b></td>
    <td width=3D"252" bgcolor=3D"#000080">
      <p align=3D"right"><b><font face=3D"Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif" siz=
e=3D"2" color=3D"#FFFFFF">September
      23, 2002=A0=A0=A0=A0</font></b></td>=20
  </tr>=20
  <center>
  <center>=20
  <tr>=20
    <td width=3D"504" colspan=3D"2">
      <p align=3D"center"><b><font face=3D"Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif" si=
ze=3D"3"> <br>
      Tapping into the hidden job market....<br>=20
       <br></font></b></td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td width=3D"504" colspan=3D"2" bgcolor=3D"#000080"><font size=3D"1" =
color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif">.</font></td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td width=3D"504" colspan=3D"2"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial,Helvet=
ica,Sans-Serif"><br>
      </font>
      <div align=3D"center">
        <table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"=
400">
          <tr>
            <td><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif">Gree=
tings!<br>
              <br>
              If you're currently in the job market, here's the little kn=
own secret to tapping into the most lucrative, yet hidden
              jobs available.<br>
              <br>
              Even in this economy, there's still millions of great jobs =
out there. It's just that many of the best ones never
              make their way to the classifieds. Instead, they're taken b=
y people who know about them
              before they're ever advertised.<br>
              <br>
              Imagine having thousands of friends who always tell you abo=
ut unadvertised jobs you'd be perfect for?<br>
              <br>
              As they say, it's not what you know it's who you know. The =
secret is to make friends out of really good recruiters. And
              not just a few of them, but lots of them. The ones who care=
 about getting you a job and
              have several jobs they're trying to fill. Then you need to =
get your resume to all of them fast!<br>
              <br>
              Now doing that is easy. Just go to <a href=3D"http://www.re=
sumemailman.com">http://www.resumemailman.com</a>=20
      </font>
              <p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif">Res=
umeMailman.com will
              instantly put your resume directly into the hands of 1000's=
 of America's VERY BEST recruiters!<br>
              <br>
              The ResumeMailman network is filled with talented recruiter=
s that have connections to tons of unadvertised jobs. Your
              resume is instantly emailed to 1000's of recruiters in YOUR=
 selected areas, specializing in YOUR selected skill sets.<br>
              <br>
              And the whole thing can be done in about 10 minutes flat! Y=
ou can even get a free confidential email address with your
              order AND receive a contact list of all the recruiters who =
received your resume!<br>
              <br>
              Just check out <a href=3D"http://www.resumemailman.com">htt=
p://www.resumemailman.com</a>
              - it's easy.<br>
              <br>
              While you're there, review the testimonials. You'll see fir=
st hand how
              they've helped thousands of others to get great interviews =
and land great jobs -
              BEFORE they're advertised.<br>
              <br>
              Even if you have a job, in this market its a good idea to k=
eep your feelers out. With
              the current economy, you never know what's going to happen.=
<br>
              <br>
              Give yourself the competitive edge and interview for the "h=
idden" jobs. They say there's strength in numbers. Why not
              put a number of recruiters to work for you?<br>
              <br>
              Sincerely,<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              Jim Langer<br>
              Manager<br>
              j-langer@execs-direct.com<br>
              <br>
      </font>
              <td>
          </tr>
        </table>
      </div>
    </td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td width=3D"504" colspan=3D"2" bgcolor=3D"#000080"><font size=3D"1" =
color=3D"#000080">.</font></td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td width=3D"504" colspan=3D"2"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial,Helvet=
ica,Sans-serif"> <br>
      </font>
      <div align=3D"center">
        <table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"=
400">
          <tr>
            <td><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif">
      The staff of Execs-Direct.com have years of recruiting experience a=
nd may from time to time send you a review=20
      of career tips and tools that have helped others in their job searc=
h. If you'd rather not receive these=20
      reviews go to <a href=3D"http://www.execs-direct.com/unsubscribe">h=
ttp://www.execs-direct.com/unsubscribe
      </a></font></td>
          </tr>
        </table>
      </div>
      <p><font face=3D"Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif" size=3D"1"> </font></p=
>
    </td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td width=3D"504" bgcolor=3D"#000080" height=3D"35" colspan=3D"2">
      <p align=3D"center"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial,Helvetica,San=
s-serif" color=3D"#FFFFFF">(c) 2002,=20
      Execs-Direct.com</font></b></td>
  </tr>
</table>
  </center>
  </div>
</td>
    </tr>
  </table>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 20 12:40:20 2002
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
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Subject: RE: Window gaps
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:51:06 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

frame it in 1/2" H lead instead. if the window is slightly off, you can trim
the lead a lot easier than rebuilding it. put a metal bar or rod in the
bottom piece of lead, so the weight of the panel doesn't collapse it. you
don't need the rubber pieces on the bottom.

i generally try to make a panel 1/8" to 1/4" less than the window opening on
each sides. measure the hole a few times at different levels, both ways, and
measure the diagonals to see how off square it is. if i can, i try to make a
paper template of the opening. butcher block paper is good for this.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shirley [mailto:sparent@uniserve.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:34 AM
> To: Glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Window gaps
> 
> 
> I want to construct a 21" square window using copper foil 
> framed with 1/2"
> zinc and before I cut out the cartoon I was wondering if you 
> could tell me
> what the required gap between the window frame and the 
> outside edge of the
> piece itself should be.  I was going to install it with 
> rubber bumpers on
> the bottom and hold it in place with wood stripping.
> 
> Thanks so much
> Shirley
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 20 15:43:24 2002
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Subject: stained glass heather pattern?
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:34:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "synergy glass"
>Anyone out there know where I can find a pattern for heather?   Yes, I
know I can make my own, however it has way too many pieces and I'm at a
loss to figure out how to simplify it.<

Paint it on clear glass.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles/ArtWorks
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 20 16:47:04 2002
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From: Stefanie Brown <xcyclone@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Pregnancy
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:38:14 -0700 (PDT)
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Since I really know none of you personally, I feel
like I can post this anaonymously without having to
worry who knows!  Anyway, my husband and I have
decisded to try to have a baby.  I've been doind
stained glass for 3 years, and I love it.  I primarily
work with copper foil, and primarily fairly large
panels.  
Can a woman continue to work glass, but use lead free
soder without causing harm to a fetus?
What are you experiences?
I think If after all fo my research I come to the
conclusion that I have to give it up while I'm
pregnant, I will just continue with pattern design,
cutting of glass, filing, and get everything prepped
for when I can safely resuem the soder work.  
Thanks for any input.

Stefanie

=====


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 20 23:24:35 2002
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I dont know anything about lead free solder...I would guess that that is 
OK..I would ask about the other chemicals you might be using 
though...patinas, fluxes and such. you really dont want to take a chance.  
another thing to consider is if you are nursing what might go into the milk.  
lead is a definate no no when you are nursing...although things like paint 
and fumes are probably a little more lenient when you are nursing but I would 
definately check it out. I would suggest in addition to asking glass people 
(who could be wrong and could have used such and such all thru their 
pregnancies and thier kids turned out fine anyway) that you ask some medical 
type people about the safety of the various substances involved. some states 
have pregnancy hotlines where you can call and ask about the toxicity of 
various things during preg and nursing. you might want to call this if your 
state has one.  as I have an assortment of creative outlets I just put the 
glass on hold and did other stuff. when I had time..which was not really too 
often:) but then I am not a professional..I just do all this stuff for 
fun...my son has finally quit nursing so I am ready to do some glass again. 
and I found out in the course of one of our moves my tools all rusted, cant 
figure it out, they werent in water and we live in a very dry area...oh 
well...hope this helps

Liz


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>I dont know anything about lead free solder...I would guess that that is OK..I would ask about the other chemicals you might be using though...patinas, fluxes and such. you really dont want to take a chance. &nbsp;another thing to consider is if you are nursing what might go into the milk. &nbsp;lead is a definate no no when you are nursing...although things like paint and fumes are probably a little more lenient when you are nursing but I would definately check it out. I would suggest in addition to asking glass people (who could be wrong and could have used such and such all thru their pregnancies and thier kids turned out fine anyway) that you ask some medical type people about the safety of the various substances involved. some states have pregnancy hotlines where you can call and ask about the toxicity of various things during preg and nursing. you might want to call this if your state has one. &nbsp;as I have an assortment of creative outlets I just put the glass on hold and did other stuff. when I had time..which was not really too often:) but then I am not a professional..I just do all this stuff for fun...my son has finally quit nursing so I am ready to do some glass again. and I found out in the course of one of our moves my tools all rusted, cant figure it out, they werent in water and we live in a very dry area...oh well...hope this helps
<BR>
<BR>Liz
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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X-Path: northlights.co.uk!toby
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: repairing a leaded pane
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 08:57:37 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@northlights.co.uk>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Everybody,
In UK we have a few patinas made by Multicor that can do just this.
Across the Pond, I think you will find that one of the many patinas made by
Jax will do the trick.
Alternatively, several applications with stove black will also achieve the
effect you want.
Regards
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
www.northlights.co.uk



> I'm repairing a single piece of glue chip in a leaded pane. The repair was
> simple, but the pane is old and I want to keep the natural patina of the
> solder. Is there a trick for aging the silver of the solder patch to make
it
> blend in with the original work?
>
> Kathy
> Topsail Island, NC
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 21 17:20:25 2002
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Subject: Re: Pregnancy
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 19:54:21 EDT
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In a message dated 9/21/02 12:36:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gunnx4@cox.net 
writes:


> Liz...if any of your tools might have had even a little bit of flux on
> them...then that would have rusted the rest of your tools. :o(
> 


special. well, now I know I guess. I was just about ready to get in the mood 
to finish up something I started before I got pregnant. and also toying with 
the idea of making a panel for my daughters school. their 
principal/founder/math teacher just died two weeks ago of a heart attack on a 
school camping trip and I was contemplating making a memorial panel





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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/21/02 12:36:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gunnx4@cox.net writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Liz...if any of your tools might have had even a little bit of flux on
<BR>them...then that would have rusted the rest of your tools. :o(
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>special. well, now I know I guess. I was just about ready to get in the mood to finish up something I started before I got pregnant. and also toying with the idea of making a panel for my daughters school. their principal/founder/math teacher just died two weeks ago of a heart attack on a school camping trip and I was contemplating making a memorial panel
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 21 19:23:45 2002
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Subject: installing a window
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 20:58:22 -0500
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Hello everyone,

I am new to the group and new to stained glass work.  I love it!

Since I'm new to the whole thing (working with glass), I have a stupid qu=
estion...
How does one go about "installing the stained glass window"? =20

I understand about the zinc/lead came and allowing for that, but once you=
 have finished where do you go from there? =20

I think I'm going to try my first "large" panel, and it measures 3'x4'

Any advice, hint, tips...great!

Also if anyone can recommend a book maybe?

Thanks!
DeenaGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer=
.msn.com

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Hello everyone=
,</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I am new to the group and new to stained g=
lass work.&nbsp; I love it!</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Since I'm new to=
 the whole thing (working with glass), I have a stupid question...</DIV> =
<DIV>How does one go about "installing the stained glass window"?&nbsp;</=
DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I understand about the zinc/lead came and all=
owing for that, but once you have finished where do you go from there?&nb=
sp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I think I'm going to try my first "large=
" panel, and it measures 3'x4'</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Any advice, h=
int, tips...great!</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Also if anyone can recomm=
end a book maybe?</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV> <DIV>Deena<B=
R><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get more from the Web.  FRE=
E MSN Explorer download : <a href=3D'http://explorer.msn.com'>http://expl=
orer.msn.com</a><br></p>

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 21 19:29:47 2002
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X-Path: msn.com!nancyt53
From: "Nancy Saucier" <nancyt53@msn.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Pregnancy
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 20:56:44 -0500
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I'm a Labor & Delivery nurse, but don't have a clue as to the answer to y=
our question.  You might try getting the MSDS sheets for all of the chemi=
cals you use.  These may tell you about any pregnancy/nursing precautions=
.  As to lead itself, I guess you can't get MSDS for that, but considerin=
g that we know that children are more deeply affected by exposure to lead=
 than even adults are, I think I would definitely not want to expose myse=
lf and baby to that.  Don't know what the composition of lead-free solder=
 is and whether it might contain any harmful components.  Sounds like a g=
ood time to take up cross-stitch!  Better safe than sorry!!  Good luck an=
d best wishes!!!
Nancy Saucier
BeauSoleil
Picayune Mississippi

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>I'm a Labor &a=
mp; Delivery nurse, but don't have a clue as to the answer to your questi=
on.&nbsp; You might try getting the MSDS sheets for all of the chemicals =
you use.&nbsp; These may tell you about any pregnancy/nursing precautions=
.&nbsp; As to lead itself, I guess you can't get MSDS for that, but consi=
dering that we know that children are more deeply affected by exposure to=
 lead than even adults are, I think I would definitely not want to expose=
 myself and baby to that.&nbsp; Don't know what the composition of lead-f=
ree solder is and whether it might contain any harmful components.&nbsp; =
Sounds like a good time to take up cross-stitch!&nbsp; Better safe than s=
orry!!&nbsp; Good luck and best wishes!!!</DIV> <DIV>Nancy Saucier</DIV> =
<DIV>BeauSoleil</DIV> <DIV>Picayune Mississippi<BR><BR></DIV></BODY></HTM=
L>

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Subject: Re: Pregnancy
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:34:18 EDT
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In a message dated 9/21/02 6:17:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gunnx4@cox.net 
writes:


> You may be able to clean them up or salvage/save them by oiling them up with
> some sewing machine oil.
> 
> 

I'll try that, thanks.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/21/02 6:17:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gunnx4@cox.net writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">You may be able to clean them up or salvage/save them by oiling them up with
<BR>some sewing machine oil.
<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>I'll try that, thanks.</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 21 20:03:01 2002
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Subject: Re: Pregnancy
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:38:14 EDT
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In a message dated 9/21/02 7:30:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nancyt53@msn.com 
writes:


> As to lead itself, I guess you can't get MSDS for that, but considering that 
> we know that children are more deeply affected by exposure to lead than 
> even adults are, I think I would definitely not want to expose myself and 
> baby to that.  Don't know what the composition of lead-free solder is and 
> whether it might contain any harmful components.  Sounds like a good time 
> to take up cross-stitch!  Better safe than sorry!!  Good luck and best 
> 


I have a glass book that has a chapter on running a glass business and they 
get pretty indepth about teaching.  among the various legal aspects they tell 
prospective glass teachers to absolutely under no  circumstances, no 
exceptions, allow a pregnant or nursing woman to take a stained glass class. 
because if something unexplained happens to the baby they could come back and 
blame the instructor who really wouldnt have a leg to stand on given the 
known toxicity of lead. 

Liz A


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/21/02 7:30:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nancyt53@msn.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">As to lead itself, I guess you can't get MSDS for that, but considering that we know that children are more deeply affected by exposure to lead than even adults are, I think I would definitely not want to expose myself and baby to that. &nbsp;Don't know what the composition of lead-free solder is and whether it might contain any harmful components. &nbsp;Sounds like a good time to take up cross-stitch! &nbsp;Better safe than sorry!! &nbsp;Good luck and best wishes!!!</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>I have a glass book that has a chapter on running a glass business and they get pretty indepth about teaching. &nbsp;among the various legal aspects they tell prospective glass teachers to absolutely under no &nbsp;circumstances, no exceptions, allow a pregnant or nursing woman to take a stained glass class. because if something unexplained happens to the baby they could come back and blame the instructor who really wouldnt have a leg to stand on given the known toxicity of lead. 
<BR>
<BR>Liz A
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 05:23:56 2002
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Subject: rusty tools
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 07:10:09 -0500
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Try soaking them in Coke, that will eat the rust off. =20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Try soaking them in Coke, that will eat =
the rust=20
off.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 05:57:33 2002
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Subject: Re: installing a window
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In a message dated 9/21/2002 10:24:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com writes:


> Hello everyone,
>  
> I am new to the group and new to stained glass work.  I love it!
>  
> Since I'm new to the whole thing (working with glass), I have a stupid 
> question...
> How does one go about "installing the stained glass window"? 
>  
> I understand about the zinc/lead came and allowing for that, but once you 
> have finished where do you go from there? 
>  
> I think I'm going to try my first "large" panel, and it measures 3'x4'
>  
> Any advice, hint, tips...great!
>  
> Also if anyone can recommend a book maybe?
>  
> Thanks!
> Deena
> 
> 

Great question - please "reply to all" with your answers so we can all share 
your wisdom!  

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#8000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">In a message dated 9/21/2002 10:24:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com writes:
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hello everyone,
<BR> 
<BR>I am new to the group and new to stained glass work. &nbsp;I love it!
<BR> 
<BR>Since I'm new to the whole thing (working with glass), I have a stupid question...
<BR>How does one go about "installing the stained glass window"? 
<BR> 
<BR>I understand about the zinc/lead came and allowing for that, but once you have finished where do you go from there? 
<BR> 
<BR>I think I'm going to try my first "large" panel, and it measures 3'x4'
<BR> 
<BR>Any advice, hint, tips...great!
<BR> 
<BR>Also if anyone can recommend a book maybe?
<BR> 
<BR>Thanks!
<BR>Deena
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#8000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">
<BR>Great question - please "reply to all" with your answers so we can all share your wisdom! &nbsp;</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 06:53:17 2002
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Subject: help! ASAP
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 08:32:03 -0500
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Hello Everyone!!!

I have a customer that wants three glass lamps but wants to use her =
existing lamp fixtures.  All three are ceiling fixtures, one is a swag =
type light that has the three or four screws holding the shade in. This =
one is approx. 5" in diameter at the top, maybe 10" at the bottom. The =
other two are mounted flush to the ceiling, looks like the glass sets in =
and the brass "circle" holds the glass.  Measurements on these two are =
probably 9" diameter with a 4" "drop".  She wants to save as much $$ as =
possible and put it all towards the glass instead of new hardware. =20

Now for the questions....is any of this even feasible?  I've only =
reworked one swag light, using the existing fixture, but it was for our =
house so it didn't matter if it didn't work or fell apart before it's =
time.  It was basically just an experiment for my own education...

If it is possible to re-use the ceiling mounted fixtures for the two, =
should I do some "open" work to let the heat escape?  I'm positive I can =
re-inforce the glass using copper restrip or wire so it doesn't sag, but =
am wondering about the heat from the bulb. =20

As for the swag light, I don't think the screws that are holding in the =
origional glass shade would be strong enough to hold up a panel type =
s.g. shade.  Has anyone tried this and what were your experiences?   My =
first inclination is to use the wiring from this light, but to make the =
shade with a new vase cap.  How would I reinforce this so all the weight =
wouldn't be pulling on the wiring?  There is a chain but think it's =
basically for "looks" more than for support. =20

Of course she wants the job done by Oct 10th.....so if I have to order =
new hardware, what companies would have what I need and be able to ship =
ASAP?  I've looked at the places online that I usually order from and no =
one has the type of flush ceiling fixtures that she wants. =20

I'd love to be able to deliver what this customer wants, not only for my =
own personal satisfaction and love of a challenge, but the more we =
talked, this could turn into great exposure since she's a business owner =
in my town and is as interested in supporting local businesses as I am.  =
(That's a challenge in our tiny town!) =20

If things work out, she also wants 7 small glass shades made (approx. 4" =
high) for her fixture over a dining table.  That job will be another =
challenge since the shades she has on there now are light weight, clip =
on the bulb type shades and I've never seen those done in glass.  Told =
her that instead of shades hanging "down", I'd probably make inverted =
shades that sit on the base of each light.  Probably with some type of =
clip to keep the shades from slipping off the bases....anyone ever try =
anything like this and what kind of clips are available?    It'd look =
ok, but am worried about the light fixture being able to support the =
weight of all the glass.  Any comments on this?  I'm not real =
comfortable with that job, but if it's possible, I'd do it in a heart =
beat. =20

Have to go out with the designs and quotes on Tuesday, so I don't have =
much time.....HELP!!!  LOL

Thanks in advance for any help!  You guys are the best!  Love this list!
Mary

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Everyone!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have a customer that wants three =
glass lamps but=20
wants to use her existing lamp fixtures.&nbsp; All three are ceiling =
fixtures,=20
one is a swag type light that has the three or four screws holding the =
shade=20
in.&nbsp;This one is approx. 5" in diameter at the top, maybe 10" at the =

bottom.&nbsp;The other two are mounted flush to the ceiling, looks like =
the=20
glass sets in and the brass "circle" holds the glass.&nbsp; Measurements =
on=20
these two are probably 9" diameter with a 4" "drop".&nbsp; She wants to =
save as=20
much $$ as possible and put it all towards the glass instead of new=20
hardware.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now for the questions....is any of this =
even=20
feasible?&nbsp; I've only reworked one swag light, using the existing =
fixture,=20
but it was for our house so it didn't matter if it didn't work or fell =
apart=20
before it's time.&nbsp; It was basically just an experiment for my own=20
education...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If it is possible to re-use the ceiling =
mounted=20
fixtures for the two, should I do some "open" work to let the heat =
escape?&nbsp;=20
I'm positive I can re-inforce the glass using copper restrip or wire so =
it=20
doesn't sag, but am wondering about the heat from the bulb.&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for the swag light, I don't think =
the screws=20
that are holding in the origional glass shade would be strong enough to =
hold up=20
a panel type s.g. shade.&nbsp; Has anyone tried this and what were your=20
experiences?&nbsp;&nbsp; My first inclination is to use the wiring from =
this=20
light, but to make the shade with a new vase cap.&nbsp; How would I =
reinforce=20
this so all the weight wouldn't be pulling on the wiring?&nbsp; There is =
a chain=20
but think it's basically for "looks" more than for support.&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Of course she wants the job done by Oct =
10th.....so=20
if I have to order new hardware, what companies would have what I need =
and be=20
able to ship ASAP?&nbsp; I've looked at the places online that I usually =
order=20
from and no one has the type of flush ceiling fixtures that she =
wants.&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'd love to be able to deliver what =
this customer=20
wants, not only for my own personal satisfaction and love of a =
challenge, but=20
the more we talked, this could turn into great exposure since she's a =
business=20
owner in my town and is as interested in supporting local businesses as =
I=20
am.&nbsp; (That's a challenge in our tiny town!)&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If things work out, she also wants 7 =
small glass=20
shades made (approx. 4" high) for her fixture over a dining table.&nbsp; =
That=20
job will be another challenge since the shades she has on there now are =
light=20
weight, clip on the bulb type shades and I've never seen those done in=20
glass.&nbsp; Told her that instead of shades hanging "down", I'd =
probably make=20
inverted shades that sit on the base of each light.&nbsp; Probably with =
some=20
type of clip to keep the shades from slipping off the bases....anyone =
ever try=20
anything like this and what kind of clips are available?&nbsp; &nbsp; =
It'd look=20
ok, but am worried about the light fixture being able to support the =
weight of=20
all the glass.&nbsp; Any comments on this?&nbsp; I'm not real =
comfortable with=20
that job, but if it's possible, I'd do it in a heart beat.&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have to go out with the designs and =
quotes on=20
Tuesday, so I don't have much time.....HELP!!!&nbsp; LOL</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance for any help!&nbsp; =
You guys are=20
the best!&nbsp; Love this list!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mary</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 09:29:20 2002
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Received: by daver.bungi.com
	via smail with stdio
	id <m17t9Si-00005wa@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 09:20:00 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: msn.com!lightdesignsbydeena
From: "DL Kankey" <lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com>
To: <Roxie1824@aol.com>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_01C26229.46838200"
Subject: Re: installing a window
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 11:14:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@msn.com>
Precedence: bulk


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----- Original Message -----
From: Roxie1824@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 7:31 AM
To: lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com; glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: installing a window

In a message dated 9/21/2002 10:24:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lightdesi=
gnsbydeena@msn.com writes: =20



Hello everyone, =20

I am new to the group and new to stained glass work.  I love it! =20

Since I'm new to the whole thing (working with glass), I have a stupid qu=
estion... =20
How does one go about "installing the stained glass window"? =20

I understand about the zinc/lead came and allowing for that, but once you=
 have finished where do you go from there? =20

I think I'm going to try my first "large" panel, and it measures 3'x4' =20

Any advice, hint, tips...great! =20

Also if anyone can recommend a book maybe? =20

Thanks! =20
Deena =20




Great question - please "reply to all" with your answers so we can all sh=
are your wisdom!   Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : h=
ttp://explorer.msn.com

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <=
DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MAR=
GIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">=
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV =
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; COLOR: black; FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>From:</B=
> Roxie1824@aol.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Su=
nday, September 22, 2002 7:31 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B=
>To:</B> lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com; glass@bungi.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D=
"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: installing a window</DIV> <DIV>&nb=
sp;</DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT color=3D#8000ff face=3D"Comic=
 Sans MS" lang=3D0 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">In a message dated 9/21/200=
2 10:24:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com writes: =
<BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D2 FAMIL=
Y=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;=
 MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px" TYPE=3D"CITE">He=
llo everyone, <BR><BR>I am new to the group and new to stained glass work=
. &nbsp;I love it! <BR><BR>Since I'm new to the whole thing (working with=
 glass), I have a stupid question... <BR>How does one go about "installin=
g the stained glass window"? <BR><BR>I understand about the zinc/lead cam=
e and allowing for that, but once you have finished where do you go from =
there? <BR><BR>I think I'm going to try my first "large" panel, and it me=
asures 3'x4' <BR><BR>Any advice, hint, tips...great! <BR><BR>Also if anyo=
ne can recommend a book maybe? <BR><BR>Thanks! <BR>Deena <BR><BR></FONT><=
FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">=
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#8000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS" lang=
=3D0 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><BR>Great question - please "reply to all=
" with your answers so we can all share your wisdom! &nbsp;</FONT> </BLOC=
KQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get more from the Web.  F=
REE MSN Explorer download : <a href=3D'http://explorer.msn.com'>http://ex=
plorer.msn.com</a><br></p>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 10:01:08 2002
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com
	via smail with stdio
	id <m17t9zI-00008ba@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 09:53:40 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: juno.com!pkinnetz
From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Subject: MSDS sheets
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 08:25:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@juno.com>
Precedence: bulk

I keep hearing to get the data sheets for various materials, but don't
have a clue as to where to look. How do I get my hands on these?  I think
its a great idea.  I'm worried not only but the chemicals and materials
used in the shop but also in paints, and sculpture materials.  I  work
with kids, and I'm suspecting that some of the general art materials that
we use, shouldn't be used.  

Peggy Kinnetz
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 10:09:16 2002
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	via smail with stdio
	id <m17tA3C-000058a@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 09:57:42 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: "synergy glass" <seaspray@island.net>
To: "MB" <mbeisner@charter.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2621C.DCC80EA0"
Subject: Re: help! ASAP...buy new fixtures
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 09:46:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@island.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@charter.net>>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Mary...
My recommendation is to quit mousing around with used fixtures.  The =
number of hours you will have to bill her for adapting, design, hunting =
down parts, etc. far exceeds the cost of new fixtures!!  If you tell her =
it will cost (work out time vs your hourly rate) in your time to save =
these fixtures vs the cost of new fixtures, she'll get it.  Labour is =
the most expensive part of any stained glass commission, not the glass, =
so again, the thought of saving money to spend on glass is also false =
economy.  Saving money on labour wherever possible is the key to a =
cost-effective project for your client and maximum profits for yourself. =
=20

If she likes the upside down look for ceiling fixtures there are a =
couple of inverted shade patterns in the Wardell publications book =
Lampworks. =20

Save yourself time and frustration...sell her on how much she's actually =
saving by buying the appropriate fixtures.

Carol
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: MB=20
  To: glass@bungi.com=20
  Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 6:32 AM
  Subject: help! ASAP


  Hello Everyone!!!

  I have a customer that wants three glass lamps but wants to use her =
existing lamp fixtures.  All three are ceiling fixtures, one is a swag =
type light that has the three or four screws holding the shade in. This =
one is approx. 5" in diameter at the top, maybe 10" at the bottom. The =
other two are mounted flush to the ceiling, looks like the glass sets in =
and the brass "circle" holds the glass.  Measurements on these two are =
probably 9" diameter with a 4" "drop".  She wants to save as much $$ as =
possible and put it all towards the glass instead of new hardware. =20

  Now for the questions....is any of this even feasible?  I've only =
reworked one swag light, using the existing fixture, but it was for our =
house so it didn't matter if it didn't work or fell apart before it's =
time.  It was basically just an experiment for my own education...

  If it is possible to re-use the ceiling mounted fixtures for the two, =
should I do some "open" work to let the heat escape?  I'm positive I can =
re-inforce the glass using copper restrip or wire so it doesn't sag, but =
am wondering about the heat from the bulb. =20

  As for the swag light, I don't think the screws that are holding in =
the origional glass shade would be strong enough to hold up a panel type =
s.g. shade.  Has anyone tried this and what were your experiences?   My =
first inclination is to use the wiring from this light, but to make the =
shade with a new vase cap.  How would I reinforce this so all the weight =
wouldn't be pulling on the wiring?  There is a chain but think it's =
basically for "looks" more than for support. =20

  Of course she wants the job done by Oct 10th.....so if I have to order =
new hardware, what companies would have what I need and be able to ship =
ASAP?  I've looked at the places online that I usually order from and no =
one has the type of flush ceiling fixtures that she wants. =20

  I'd love to be able to deliver what this customer wants, not only for =
my own personal satisfaction and love of a challenge, but the more we =
talked, this could turn into great exposure since she's a business owner =
in my town and is as interested in supporting local businesses as I am.  =
(That's a challenge in our tiny town!) =20

  If things work out, she also wants 7 small glass shades made (approx. =
4" high) for her fixture over a dining table.  That job will be another =
challenge since the shades she has on there now are light weight, clip =
on the bulb type shades and I've never seen those done in glass.  Told =
her that instead of shades hanging "down", I'd probably make inverted =
shades that sit on the base of each light.  Probably with some type of =
clip to keep the shades from slipping off the bases....anyone ever try =
anything like this and what kind of clips are available?    It'd look =
ok, but am worried about the light fixture being able to support the =
weight of all the glass.  Any comments on this?  I'm not real =
comfortable with that job, but if it's possible, I'd do it in a heart =
beat. =20

  Have to go out with the designs and quotes on Tuesday, so I don't have =
much time.....HELP!!!  LOL

  Thanks in advance for any help!  You guys are the best!  Love this =
list!
  Mary

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Mary...</DIV>
<DIV>My recommendation is to quit mousing around with used =
fixtures.&nbsp; The=20
number of hours you will have to bill her for adapting, design, hunting =
down=20
parts, etc. far exceeds the cost of new fixtures!!&nbsp; If you tell her =
it will=20
cost (work out time vs your hourly rate)&nbsp;in your time to&nbsp;save =
these=20
fixtures vs the cost of new fixtures, she'll get it.&nbsp;&nbsp;Labour =
is the=20
most expensive part of any stained glass commission, not the glass, so =
again,=20
the thought of saving money to spend on glass is also false =
economy.&nbsp;=20
Saving money on labour wherever possible is the key to a cost-effective =
project=20
for your client and maximum profits for yourself.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If she likes the upside down look for ceiling fixtures there are a =
couple=20
of&nbsp;inverted shade patterns in the Wardell publications book=20
Lampworks.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Save yourself time and frustration...sell her on how much she's =
actually=20
saving by buying the appropriate fixtures.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Carol</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmbeisner@charter.net =
href=3D"mailto:mbeisner@charter.net">MB</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dglass@bungi.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 22, =
2002 6:32=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> help! ASAP</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Everyone!!!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have a customer that wants three =
glass lamps=20
  but wants to use her existing lamp fixtures.&nbsp; All three are =
ceiling=20
  fixtures, one is a swag type light that has the three or four screws =
holding=20
  the shade in.&nbsp;This one is approx. 5" in diameter at the top, =
maybe 10" at=20
  the bottom.&nbsp;The other two are mounted flush to the ceiling, looks =
like=20
  the glass sets in and the brass "circle" holds the glass.&nbsp; =
Measurements=20
  on these two are probably 9" diameter with a 4" "drop".&nbsp; She =
wants to=20
  save as much $$ as possible and put it all towards the glass instead =
of new=20
  hardware.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now for the questions....is any of =
this even=20
  feasible?&nbsp; I've only reworked one swag light, using the existing =
fixture,=20
  but it was for our house so it didn't matter if it didn't work or fell =
apart=20
  before it's time.&nbsp; It was basically just an experiment for my own =

  education...</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If it is possible to re-use the =
ceiling mounted=20
  fixtures for the two, should I do some "open" work to let the heat=20
  escape?&nbsp; I'm positive I can re-inforce the glass using copper =
restrip or=20
  wire so it doesn't sag, but am wondering about the heat from the =
bulb.&nbsp;=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for the swag light, I don't think =
the screws=20
  that are holding in the origional glass shade would be strong enough =
to hold=20
  up a panel type s.g. shade.&nbsp; Has anyone tried this and what were =
your=20
  experiences?&nbsp;&nbsp; My first inclination is to use the wiring =
from this=20
  light, but to make the shade with a new vase cap.&nbsp; How would I =
reinforce=20
  this so all the weight wouldn't be pulling on the wiring?&nbsp; There =
is a=20
  chain but think it's basically for "looks" more than for =
support.&nbsp;=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Of course she wants the job done by =
Oct=20
  10th.....so if I have to order new hardware, what companies would have =
what I=20
  need and be able to ship ASAP?&nbsp; I've looked at the places online =
that I=20
  usually order from and no one has the type of flush ceiling fixtures =
that she=20
  wants.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'd love to be able to deliver what =
this customer=20
  wants, not only for my own personal satisfaction and love of a =
challenge, but=20
  the more we talked, this could turn into great exposure since she's a =
business=20
  owner in my town and is as interested in supporting local businesses =
as I=20
  am.&nbsp; (That's a challenge in our tiny town!)&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If things work out, she also wants 7 =
small glass=20
  shades made (approx. 4" high) for her fixture over a dining =
table.&nbsp; That=20
  job will be another challenge since the shades she has on there now =
are light=20
  weight, clip on the bulb type shades and I've never seen those done in =

  glass.&nbsp; Told her that instead of shades hanging "down", I'd =
probably make=20
  inverted shades that sit on the base of each light.&nbsp; Probably =
with some=20
  type of clip to keep the shades from slipping off the bases....anyone =
ever try=20
  anything like this and what kind of clips are available?&nbsp; &nbsp; =
It'd=20
  look ok, but am worried about the light fixture being able to support =
the=20
  weight of all the glass.&nbsp; Any comments on this?&nbsp; I'm not =
real=20
  comfortable with that job, but if it's possible, I'd do it in a heart=20
  beat.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have to go out with the designs and =
quotes on=20
  Tuesday, so I don't have much time.....HELP!!!&nbsp; LOL</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance for any help!&nbsp; =
You guys=20
  are the best!&nbsp; Love this list!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Mary</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 10:21:44 2002
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Subject: Re: help! ASAP should have been "reusing existing lamp hardware"
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 12:28:42 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
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Mary,

I'd be willing to bet quite a few people are going to delete your e mail 
without reading it because there is no indication in the subject line that it 
is glass related.  I deleted it then saw your other posting about rusting 
tools and realized it was from the same person.

Pat
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 10:32:23 2002
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From: "Joe Morris" <gruntfish@attbi.com>
To: "Peggy L Kinnetz" <pkinnetz@juno.com>,
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Subject: RE: MSDS sheets
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 10:06:10 -0700
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	Under Federal law, Material Safety Data Sheets, (MSDS), must be made
available by anyone providing any sort of chemical.
	In simpler language, just ask your distributor. They will probably have
them on file, if not, go to the manufacturer. I would not use anything in my
studio that the manufacturer would not provide a coherent MSDS for.

	Good luck!

-----Original Message-----
From: Peggy L Kinnetz [mailto:pkinnetz@juno.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:26 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: MSDS sheets


I keep hearing to get the data sheets for various materials, but don't
have a clue as to where to look. How do I get my hands on these?  I think
its a great idea.  I'm worried not only but the chemicals and materials
used in the shop but also in paints, and sculpture materials.  I  work
with kids, and I'm suspecting that some of the general art materials that
we use, shouldn't be used.

Peggy Kinnetz
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 10:40:48 2002
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Subject: RE: help! ASAP
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 10:13:19 -0700
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    Just my 2 cents worth, but glass is a very poor insulator. It sheds heat
well enough without vents. Some may disagree, but I have never had a problem
due to hot air build up. I have only run into trouble due to the proximity
of the bulb to combustible materials. Good luck!
  -----Original Message-----
  From: MB [mailto:mbeisner@charter.net]
  Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 6:32 AM
  To: glass@bungi.com
  Subject: help! ASAP


  Hello Everyone!!!

  I have a customer that wants three glass lamps but wants to use her
existing lamp fixtures.  All three are ceiling fixtures, one is a swag type
light that has the three or four screws holding the shade in. This one is
approx. 5" in diameter at the top, maybe 10" at the bottom. The other two
are mounted flush to the ceiling, looks like the glass sets in and the brass
"circle" holds the glass.  Measurements on these two are probably 9"
diameter with a 4" "drop".  She wants to save as much $$ as possible and put
it all towards the glass instead of new hardware.

  Now for the questions....is any of this even feasible?  I've only reworked
one swag light, using the existing fixture, but it was for our house so it
didn't matter if it didn't work or fell apart before it's time.  It was
basically just an experiment for my own education...

  If it is possible to re-use the ceiling mounted fixtures for the two,
should I do some "open" work to let the heat escape?  I'm positive I can
re-inforce the glass using copper restrip or wire so it doesn't sag, but am
wondering about the heat from the bulb.

  As for the swag light, I don't think the screws that are holding in the
origional glass shade would be strong enough to hold up a panel type s.g.
shade.  Has anyone tried this and what were your experiences?   My first
inclination is to use the wiring from this light, but to make the shade with
a new vase cap.  How would I reinforce this so all the weight wouldn't be
pulling on the wiring?  There is a chain but think it's basically for
"looks" more than for support.

  Of course she wants the job done by Oct 10th.....so if I have to order new
hardware, what companies would have what I need and be able to ship ASAP?
I've looked at the places online that I usually order from and no one has
the type of flush ceiling fixtures that she wants.

  I'd love to be able to deliver what this customer wants, not only for my
own personal satisfaction and love of a challenge, but the more we talked,
this could turn into great exposure since she's a business owner in my town
and is as interested in supporting local businesses as I am.  (That's a
challenge in our tiny town!)

  If things work out, she also wants 7 small glass shades made (approx. 4"
high) for her fixture over a dining table.  That job will be another
challenge since the shades she has on there now are light weight, clip on
the bulb type shades and I've never seen those done in glass.  Told her that
instead of shades hanging "down", I'd probably make inverted shades that sit
on the base of each light.  Probably with some type of clip to keep the
shades from slipping off the bases....anyone ever try anything like this and
what kind of clips are available?    It'd look ok, but am worried about the
light fixture being able to support the weight of all the glass.  Any
comments on this?  I'm not real comfortable with that job, but if it's
possible, I'd do it in a heart beat.

  Have to go out with the designs and quotes on Tuesday, so I don't have
much time.....HELP!!!  LOL

  Thanks in advance for any help!  You guys are the best!  Love this list!
  Mary

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D440230717-22092002><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Just my 2 cents worth, but glass is a very poor =
insulator.=20
It sheds heat well enough without vents. Some may disagree, but I have =
never had=20
a problem due to hot air build up. I have only run into trouble due to =
the=20
proximity of the bulb to combustible materials. Good =
luck!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> MB=20
  [mailto:mbeisner@charter.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 22, =
2002 6:32=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> glass@bungi.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> help!=20
  ASAP<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Everyone!!!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have a customer that wants three =
glass lamps=20
  but wants to use her existing lamp fixtures.&nbsp; All three are =
ceiling=20
  fixtures, one is a swag type light that has the three or four screws =
holding=20
  the shade in.&nbsp;This one is approx. 5" in diameter at the top, =
maybe 10" at=20
  the bottom.&nbsp;The other two are mounted flush to the ceiling, looks =
like=20
  the glass sets in and the brass "circle" holds the glass.&nbsp; =
Measurements=20
  on these two are probably 9" diameter with a 4" "drop".&nbsp; She =
wants to=20
  save as much $$ as possible and put it all towards the glass instead =
of new=20
  hardware.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now for the questions....is any of =
this even=20
  feasible?&nbsp; I've only reworked one swag light, using the existing =
fixture,=20
  but it was for our house so it didn't matter if it didn't work or fell =
apart=20
  before it's time.&nbsp; It was basically just an experiment for my own =

  education...</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If it is possible to re-use the =
ceiling mounted=20
  fixtures for the two, should I do some "open" work to let the heat=20
  escape?&nbsp; I'm positive I can re-inforce the glass using copper =
restrip or=20
  wire so it doesn't sag, but am wondering about the heat from the =
bulb.&nbsp;=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for the swag light, I don't think =
the screws=20
  that are holding in the origional glass shade would be strong enough =
to hold=20
  up a panel type s.g. shade.&nbsp; Has anyone tried this and what were =
your=20
  experiences?&nbsp;&nbsp; My first inclination is to use the wiring =
from this=20
  light, but to make the shade with a new vase cap.&nbsp; How would I =
reinforce=20
  this so all the weight wouldn't be pulling on the wiring?&nbsp; There =
is a=20
  chain but think it's basically for "looks" more than for =
support.&nbsp;=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Of course she wants the job done by =
Oct=20
  10th.....so if I have to order new hardware, what companies would have =
what I=20
  need and be able to ship ASAP?&nbsp; I've looked at the places online =
that I=20
  usually order from and no one has the type of flush ceiling fixtures =
that she=20
  wants.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'd love to be able to deliver what =
this customer=20
  wants, not only for my own personal satisfaction and love of a =
challenge, but=20
  the more we talked, this could turn into great exposure since she's a =
business=20
  owner in my town and is as interested in supporting local businesses =
as I=20
  am.&nbsp; (That's a challenge in our tiny town!)&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If things work out, she also wants 7 =
small glass=20
  shades made (approx. 4" high) for her fixture over a dining =
table.&nbsp; That=20
  job will be another challenge since the shades she has on there now =
are light=20
  weight, clip on the bulb type shades and I've never seen those done in =

  glass.&nbsp; Told her that instead of shades hanging "down", I'd =
probably make=20
  inverted shades that sit on the base of each light.&nbsp; Probably =
with some=20
  type of clip to keep the shades from slipping off the bases....anyone =
ever try=20
  anything like this and what kind of clips are available?&nbsp; &nbsp; =
It'd=20
  look ok, but am worried about the light fixture being able to support =
the=20
  weight of all the glass.&nbsp; Any comments on this?&nbsp; I'm not =
real=20
  comfortable with that job, but if it's possible, I'd do it in a heart=20
  beat.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have to go out with the designs and =
quotes on=20
  Tuesday, so I don't have much time.....HELP!!!&nbsp; LOL</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance for any help!&nbsp; =
You guys=20
  are the best!&nbsp; Love this list!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Mary</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 13:20:14 2002
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Subject: Re: new shades, old fixtures
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 15:48:53 EDT
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In a message dated 9/22/2002 9:54:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
mbeisner@charter.net writes:  

> customer wants three glass lamps but wants to use her existing lamp 
> fixtures.  ... ...  She wants to save as much $$ as possible and put it all 
> towards the glass instead of new hardware.  

Mary, I agree with Carol..  Glass is the least of the expense, your time and 
labor is the biggest investment.  You will probably spend a great deal of 
time rigging some support, only to find that in the long run, it might be 
better and safer to work with related products.  (You say she wants this 
when??? October 10?  First of all, you should get more time than that to do 3 
lamps!)  I cannot tell you who could ship hardware in record time, but I can 
give you a few resources for lamp-making (from the IGGA Source Guide, soon to 
be available):

1)  Handley Industries:  handleyonline.com
(web site still under construction, but there is plenty to see)
wholesale, distributes over 1600 lamp components and assemblies, 450 
different lamps and lamp bases.
2) DeSherbinin Products: wndesherbinin.com
  They also provide immediate delivery, but again, it's wholesale.  Perhaps 
your local retailer can purchase what you need.  deSherbinin carries lamp 
parts, accessories and hardware, including antique reproductions.
3)H.L.Worden Company: www.wordensystem.com/accessories.cfm
Worden, because they specialize in stained glass shades, has hardware and 
accessories, including reinforcement materials, cluster lights, ceiling 
fixtures, etc.  They will sell from the internet, as well as through your 
local stained glass shops.

Good luck to you.
Ann





> 
> 
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Tahoma" LANG="0">In a message dated 9/22/2002 9:54:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mbeisner@charter.net writes:&nbsp; <BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">customer wants three glass lamps but wants to use her existing lamp fixtures.&nbsp; ... ...&nbsp; She wants to save as much $$ as possible and put it all towards the glass instead of new hardware.&nbsp; </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Tahoma" LANG="0">Mary, I agree with Carol..&nbsp; Glass is the least of the expense, your time and labor is the biggest investment.&nbsp; You will probably spend a great deal of time rigging some support, only to find that in the long run, it might be better and safer to work with related products.&nbsp; (You say she wants this when??? October 10?&nbsp; First of all, you should get more time than that to do 3 lamps!)&nbsp; I cannot tell you who could ship hardware in record time, but I can give you a few resources for lamp-making (from the IGGA Source Guide, soon to be available):<BR>
<BR>
1)&nbsp; Handley Industries:&nbsp; handleyonline.com<BR>
(web site still under construction, but there is plenty to see)<BR>
wholesale, distributes over 1600 lamp components and assemblies, 450 different lamps and lamp bases.<BR>
2) DeSherbinin Products: wndesherbinin.com<BR>
&nbsp; They also provide immediate delivery, but again, it's wholesale.&nbsp; Perhaps your local retailer can purchase what you need.&nbsp; deSherbinin carries lamp parts, accessories and hardware, including antique reproductions.<BR>
3)H.L.Worden Company: www.wordensystem.com/accessories.cfm<BR>
Worden, because they specialize in stained glass shades, has hardware and accessories, including reinforcement materials, cluster lights, ceiling fixtures, etc.&nbsp; They will sell from the internet, as well as through your local stained glass shops.<BR>
<BR>
Good luck to you.<BR>
Ann<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Tahoma" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 19:34:13 2002
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       A suggestion, for what it's worth.  Preceding the subject of all 
messages posted to the stained glass list with the word "glass," will 
identify the e-mail to all the subscribers, and avoid the deletion of a 
message because it was mistaken as spam.
 

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;A suggestion, for what it's worth. &nbsp;Preceding the subject of all messages posted to the stained glass list with the word "glass," will identify the e-mail to all the subscribers, and avoid the deletion of a message because it was mistaken as spam.
<BR> </FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 22:44:04 2002
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From: "Gerry Phibbs (IGGA)" <glasscutter@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: Glass & Pregnancy Inquiry..
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:06:33 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@earthlink.net>
Precedence: bulk

For Stefanie, and the rest of the bungi folks,
  I forwarded Stefanie Brown's inquiry on to a friend of mine, Monona
Rossol, one of the few genuine experts in the field of safety in the
arts and crafts areas, and one of the even fewer, whose opinion I would
trust.  Here is her response, and I forward this to the entire group, as
well as to Stefanie Brown
  Peace  -Gerry Phibbs, IGGA

Dear Gerry,

Every year, we get hundreds of similar requests for information about
pregnancy and lead exposure, especially from stained glass workers.  I
don't know if you are aware of it or not, but many of our inquiries are
referred by the Pregnancy Environmental Hotlines around the country, the
March of Dimes, and many, many physicians who know of our weird little
area of expertise.

Our recommendations for any exposure to lead both before and during are
always the same: don't work with it.  We take into account that most of
us are carrying more lead than is good for us from ordinary pollution
sources--air, water, dust in the home and urban environments, etc.
With these body burdens, we do not need additional lead from our
hobbies.  And there are lead-free methods we should all be using now.

That said, the fact is that some people make their living or recreate
with lead-containing materials.  For these people, the recommendations
are as follows.

First: get a blood lead test right away.  If your doctor does not
provide the actual test results in numbers, get another doctor.  Some
doctors have not kept up with the research and do not know how to
interpret the results.

Pregnant women should look at the actual numbers from their blood lead
test and consider the following:

* The average blood lead level for adults in the US who are not working
with lead is 2 micrograms per deciliter (ug/dL)  If you are above this
level, you are getting some contribution from your stained glass or some
other source.  Look to your exposures and make changes.  And I would
suggest quitting working with lead altogether.  Also, stained glass work
NEVER should be done in the home--not only during pregnancy, but for the
safety of the child after it is born.

(I notice the questioner wants to continue to cut and shape glass.  If
this is done in a studio away from home in which lead dust from others
using lead is not present, it might be possible.  But if the edges are
ground, there must be ventilation for the grinding area.  Here the
problem is not only lead exposure to those glass colors that contain
lead pigments, it is complicated by exposure to other toxic metals
including cadmium (opaque yellow), arsenic (opaque white), chrome
(greens and other colors), cobalt (blue), manganese (purple), and more.)

* 10 ug/dL is the level at which children are known to be losing a few
IQ points.  However, 10 is still considered "normal" or "OK" for
adults.  The problem is, if that adult is a pregnant woman, the fetus'
blood is also at about 10 ug/dL.  We see this as a situation in which
the physician and the patient must use strategies to reduce the amount
of lead absorbed by the fetus.  The most common strategy is to have the
woman take more calcium since the body cannot tell the difference
between lead and calcium and the fetus will take up proportionally more
calcium than lead if the calcium/lead ratio is altered.

*  If the results of the blood lead are higher than 10 ug/dL, you
probably should consult a physician with an expertise in lead's effects
as well as your obstetrician.

* Pregnancy mobilizes calcium and stored lead from the bones of a
pregnant women--even lead absorbed during the pregnant woman's childhood
will be mobilized.  Since blood lead tests primarily reflect recent
exposures (the last week or two), the woman's blood lead may actually
rise during pregnancy without additional exposure if her body burden of
stored lead is high.  We recommend one or two more blood lead tests
during the pregnancy to monitor this effect.

*  Keep your perspective and good humor during all this.  There is just
no advantage to getting upset in addition.   Remember the effects at 10
ug/dL are primarily intellectual and many, many normal babies are born
to mothers at this level of lead.  But since we know that there is an
effect on the brain, however small, it makes sense to try to reduce it
if possible.

The most important thing is to get those blood lead tests and get good
medical advice.

Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., #23
New York, NY 10012-2586      212/777-0062



---------------------------Original
Message-------------------------------
In a message dated 9/22/02 4:14:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
glasscutter@earthlink.net writes:

> =====
>
> Subject:Pregnancy
> Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:38:14 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Stefanie Brown <xcyclone@yahoo.com>
> To: Glass@bungi.com
>
> Since I really know none of you personally, I feel
> like I can post this anaonymously without having to
> worry who knows!  Anyway, my husband and I have
> decisded to try to have a baby.  I've been doing
> stained glass for 3 years, and I love it.  I primarily
> work with copper foil, and primarily fairly large
> panels.
> Can a woman continue to work glass, but use lead free
> soder without causing harm to a fetus?
> What are you experiences?
> I think If after all fo my research I come to the
> conclusion that I have to give it up while I'm
> pregnant, I will just continue with pattern design,
> cutting of glass, filing, and get everything prepped
> for when I can safely resuem the soder work.
> Thanks for any input.
>
> Stefanie
>
> =====




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From owner-glass Sun Sep 22 23:14:49 2002
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: comcast.net!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: "Realmuto95@aol.com [bungier/Bungier]"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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Subject: Re: G Identification of Messages
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 01:48:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>
References: <<1503915176.1032748778044.JavaMail.root@monkey>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

I'm not fond of that since it eats up space that could be devoted to 
topic.  I also doubt that people will remember.  However, let me suggest 
a beginning topic be preceded by SG (for stained glass), WG (for warm 
glass), HG (for hot glass) or just G for glass in general.  At the most 
it takes only 3 character spaces. - Cec

Realmuto95@aol.com [bungier/Bungier] wrote:

>      A suggestion, for what it's worth.  Preceding the subject of all 
> messages posted to the stained glass list with the word "glass," will 
> identify the e-mail to all the subscribers, and avoid the deletion of 
> a message because it was mistaken as spam.


-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 00:18:08 2002
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X-Path: aol.com!Tatt2LizID
From: Tatt2LizID@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a3.9156382.2ac01239_boundary"
Subject: Re: Glass & Pregnancy Inquiry..
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 02:44:09 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
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In a message dated 9/22/02 10:45:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
glasscutter@earthlink.net writes:


> .  Also, stained glass work
> NEVER should be done in the home--not only during pregnancy, but for the
> safety of the child after it is born.
> 
> 
> I just cringe when I read stuff about people doing glass on their kitchen 
> tables... I read something recently, it wasnt in a glass thing...I think it 
> was something  in some magazine about some woman and her life and happened 
> to mention her having her stained glass set up in a corner of her 
> kitchen.....do people even THINK...are they even aware they could be 
> poisoning themselves? I know when I took my first glass class if I remember 
> nothing else I remember how much it was drilled into us to not eat, drink 
> or smoke while working with the lead parts of the glass process (and 
> preferably not the others either..nothing like a nice glass chip in a quick 
> swallow of coffee....). I set myself up in my basement and am absolutely 
> scrupulous about handwashing before I do anything else. and changing my 
> clothes too right after.  I might add for the fishermen (fisherpeople?) 
> among us....I do the same after I handle those little lead pellets you 
> weight the line with.  I saw some guys last summer fixing their lines and 
> then grabbing their sandwiches..>I actually said something and recieved a 
> .


Liz


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/22/02 10:45:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, glasscutter@earthlink.net writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">. &nbsp;Also, stained glass work
<BR>NEVER should be done in the home--not only during pregnancy, but for the
<BR>safety of the child after it is born.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>I just cringe when I read stuff about people doing glass on their kitchen tables... I read something recently, it wasnt in a glass thing...I think it was something &nbsp;in some magazine about some woman and her life and happened to mention her having her stained glass set up in a corner of her kitchen.....do people even THINK...are they even aware they could be poisoning themselves? I know when I took my first glass class if I remember nothing else I remember how much it was drilled into us to not eat, drink or smoke while working with the lead parts of the glass process (and preferably not the others either..nothing like a nice glass chip in a quick swallow of coffee....). I set myself up in my basement and am absolutely scrupulous about handwashing before I do anything else. and changing my clothes too right after. &nbsp;I might add for the fishermen (fisherpeople?) among us....I do the same after I handle those little lead pellets you weight the line with. &nbsp;I saw some guys last summer fixing their lines and then grabbing their sandwiches..&gt;I actually said something and recieved a rude stare for my efforts...</BLOCKQUOTE>.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Liz
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 07:33:13 2002
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 07:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: aol.com!CUngv
From: CUngv@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: Glass-Identification of Messages
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 10:03:09 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hello all,

I recently invited a virus into my computer by simply opening an e-mail that 
I suspected might be glass related.  It wasn't and I felt very foolish.  It 
took quite a while to rid my computer of the nasty bug.  I have suggested 
several times that people be more thoughtful when selecting the subject line.

Some people resist putting "bungi" in the subject line for one of two 
reasons: They have the ability to sort all of their incoming e-mail and 
assume everyone else should as well, or they believe that adding "bungi" 
takes away space that would be better devoted to describing the nature of 
their inquiry.

I do not believe that people are going to change their e-mail providers 
simply to be able to sort bungi messages.  And, I believe that most bungians 
would rather read any glass-related email to decide if it were interesting 
than face the dilemma of accidentally inviting a virus in or deleting a 
glass-related question. 

I come down in favor of adding "Bungi" or "glass" to all subject lines.

Carolyn
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 08:04:04 2002
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
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From: "DL Kankey" <lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com>
To: <CUngv@aol.com>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_01C262E8.9A9B5100"
Subject: Re: Glass-Identification of Messages
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 10:04:28 -0500
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------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C262E8.9A9B5100
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I agree.

The same thing happend to me (virus), and it's a pain.

I enjoy reading all messages etc...and I don't want to have to decide wha=
t is what.

Thanks!
Deena

----- Original Message -----
From: CUngv@aol.com
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 9:50 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass-Identification of Messages

Hello all,

I recently invited a virus into my computer by simply opening an e-mail t=
hat =20
I suspected might be glass related.  It wasn't and I felt very foolish.  =
It =20
took quite a while to rid my computer of the nasty bug.  I have suggested=
 =20
several times that people be more thoughtful when selecting the subject l=
ine.

Some people resist putting "bungi" in the subject line for one of two =20
reasons: They have the ability to sort all of their incoming e-mail and =20
assume everyone else should as well, or they believe that adding "bungi" =20
takes away space that would be better devoted to describing the nature of=
 =20
their inquiry.

I do not believe that people are going to change their e-mail providers =20
simply to be able to sort bungi messages.  And, I believe that most bungi=
ans =20
would rather read any glass-related email to decide if it were interestin=
g =20
than face the dilemma of accidentally inviting a virus in or deleting a =20
glass-related question. =20

I come down in favor of adding "Bungi" or "glass" to all subject lines.

Carolyn
----
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REE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>I agree.</DIV>=
 <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>The same thing happend to me (virus), and it's a =
pain.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I enjoy reading all messages etc...and=
 I don't want to have to decide what is what.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DI=
V>Thanks!</DIV> <DIV>Deena</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"B=
ORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDI=
NG-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- =
Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; COLOR: bl=
ack; FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>From:</B> CUngv@aol.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FON=
T: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 23, 2002 9:50 AM</DIV> <DIV=
 style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> glass@bungi.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D=
"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Glass-Identification of Messages</=
DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>Hello all,<BR><BR>I recently invited a virus into m=
y computer by simply opening an e-mail that <BR>I suspected might be glas=
s related.&nbsp; It wasn't and I felt very foolish.&nbsp; It <BR>took qui=
te a while to rid my computer of the nasty bug.&nbsp; I have suggested <B=
R>several times that people be more thoughtful when selecting the subject=
 line.<BR><BR>Some people resist putting "bungi" in the subject line for =
one of two <BR>reasons: They have the ability to sort all of their incomi=
ng e-mail and <BR>assume everyone else should as well, or they believe th=
at adding "bungi" <BR>takes away space that would be better devoted to de=
scribing the nature of <BR>their inquiry.<BR><BR>I do not believe that pe=
ople are going to change their e-mail providers <BR>simply to be able to =
sort bungi messages.&nbsp; And, I believe that most bungians <BR>would ra=
ther read any glass-related email to decide if it were interesting <BR>th=
an face the dilemma of accidentally inviting a virus in or deleting a <BR=
>glass-related question. <BR><BR>I come down in favor of adding "Bungi" o=
r "glass" to all subject lines.<BR><BR>Carolyn<BR>----<BR>For subscriptio=
n changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com<BR>To send to the list=
,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: glass@bungi.com<BR>Archiv=
es available at http://www.bungi.com/glass<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>=
<br clear=3Dall><hr>Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : =
<a href=3D'http://explorer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 08:36:31 2002
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:13:15 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: attbi.com!gruntfish
From: gruntfish@attbi.com
To: CUngv@aol.com
Subject: Re: Glass-Identification of Messages
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 15:12:41 +0000
Message-ID: <20020923151241.PELJ21615.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58>
Precedence: bulk


   Sorry to hear that you caught a virus. I would hasten 
to add that although you might see a message that is 
definitely from the group, it could still contain a 
virus, trojan, or worm. 
   I think if I were worried that I might be in danger 
of infection from the mailing list I would either obtain 
some sort of anti-virus software such as McAfee, or take 
a long hard look at how I interact with the group.
   Good Luck Carolyn.
> Hello all,
> 
> I recently invited a virus into my computer by simply opening an e-mail that 
> I suspected might be glass related.  It wasn't and I felt very foolish.  It 
> took quite a while to rid my computer of the nasty bug.  I have suggested 
> several times that people be more thoughtful when selecting the subject line.
> 
> Some people resist putting "bungi" in the subject line for one of two 
> reasons: They have the ability to sort all of their incoming e-mail and 
> assume everyone else should as well, or they believe that adding "bungi" 
> takes away space that would be better devoted to describing the nature of 
> their inquiry.
> 
> I do not believe that people are going to change their e-mail providers 
> simply to be able to sort bungi messages.  And, I believe that most bungians 
> would rather read any glass-related email to decide if it were interesting 
> than face the dilemma of accidentally inviting a virus in or deleting a 
> glass-related question. 
> 
> I come down in favor of adding "Bungi" or "glass" to all subject lines.
> 
> Carolyn
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 08:48:10 2002
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: sympatico.ca!ron.amero
From: "Ron Amero" <ron.amero@sympatico.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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	charset="Windows-1252"
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Subject: RE: Glass-Identification of Messages
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:23:22 -0400
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Precedence: bulk

Having "Bungi" or "glass" in the title is not going to protect you from
viruses!  It might at most help you weed out the SPAM.  Get a good
anti-virus program and update the virus definition files WEEKLY - there are
even some very good FREE anti-virus programs out there that will check all
incoming (and outgoing) emails.  Actually, even if you do receive an
infected email, you will usually get the virus by clicking on the embedded
file... this of course assuming that you are silly enough not to have
anti-virus protection running and the virus definition files up-to-date.  If
you do, email is safe and it becomes a matter of SPAM.

Ron

PS: I don't care if the words are in the title or not.

-----Original Message-----
From: CUngv@aol.com [mailto:CUngv@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 10:03 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass-Identification of Messages

Hello all,

I recently invited a virus into my computer by simply opening an e-mail that
I suspected might be glass related.  It wasn't and I felt very foolish.  It
took quite a while to rid my computer of the nasty bug.  I have suggested
several times that people be more thoughtful when selecting the subject
line.

Some people resist putting "bungi" in the subject line for one of two
reasons: They have the ability to sort all of their incoming e-mail and
assume everyone else should as well, or they believe that adding "bungi"
takes away space that would be better devoted to describing the nature of
their inquiry.

I do not believe that people are going to change their e-mail providers
simply to be able to sort bungi messages.  And, I believe that most bungians
would rather read any glass-related email to decide if it were interesting
than face the dilemma of accidentally inviting a virus in or deleting a
glass-related question.

I come down in favor of adding "Bungi" or "glass" to all subject lines.

Carolyn
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 09:12:24 2002
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From: tomjacm@aol.com
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Please remove my home e-mail address from tomjacm@aol.com and forward to my 
new business e-mail address at touchstainedglss@aol.com.

Thank you.
Jaci

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Please remove my home e-mail address from tomjacm@aol.com and forward to my new business e-mail address at touchstainedglss@aol.com.<BR>
<BR>
Thank you.<BR>
Jaci</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 09:22:55 2002
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Subject: Waxing Stained Glass Pieces
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:51:58 EDT
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I need some advise.

I waxed a recent panel with some stained glass compound, but it makes the 
picture look dirty instead of bright and shiny. Could this compound be old 
and thats why I am having this problem? I have scrubed to get it off. I would 
much rather leave it alone that have it look dirty. Any advise is helpful.

Thanks

Jaci

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I need some advise.<BR>
<BR>
I waxed a recent panel with some stained glass compound, but it makes the picture look dirty instead of bright and shiny. Could this compound be old and thats why I am having this problem? I have scrubed to get it off. I would much rather leave it alone that have it look dirty. Any advise is helpful.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
Jaci<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 10:10:42 2002
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
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Subject: RE: Pregnancy
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:31:31 -0700
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did you have your patinas stored in the same place? 

if so, the rust came from acid fumes.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

-----Original Message-----
From: Tatt2LizID@aol.com [mailto:Tatt2LizID@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:45 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pregnancy


my son has finally quit nursing so I am ready to do some glass again. and I
found out in the course of one of our moves my tools all rusted, cant figure
it out, they werent in water and we live in a very dry area...oh well...hope
this helps 

Liz 
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 11:47:27 2002
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
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Subject: RE: Glass & Pregnancy Inquiry..
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:11:06 -0700
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when i was a kid, we used to crimp the lead sinkers on our lines with our
teeth.

people just didn't, and don't, know.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

-----Original Message-----
From: Tatt2LizID@aol.com [mailto:Tatt2LizID@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 11:44 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass & Pregnancy Inquiry..


In a message dated 9/22/02 10:45:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
glasscutter@earthlink.net writes: 



.  Also, stained glass work 
NEVER should be done in the home--not only during pregnancy, but for the 
safety of the child after it is born. 


I just cringe when I read stuff about people doing glass on their kitchen
tables... I read something recently, it wasnt in a glass thing...I think it
was something  in some magazine about some woman and her life and happened
to mention her having her stained glass set up in a corner of her
kitchen.....do people even THINK...are they even aware they could be
poisoning themselves? I know when I took my first glass class if I remember
nothing else I remember how much it was drilled into us to not eat, drink or
smoke while working with the lead parts of the glass process (and preferably
not the others either..nothing like a nice glass chip in a quick swallow of
coffee....). I set myself up in my basement and am absolutely scrupulous
about handwashing before I do anything else. and changing my clothes too
right after.  I might add for the fishermen (fisherpeople?) among us....I do
the same after I handle those little lead pellets you weight the line with.
I saw ! some guys last summer fixing their lines and then grabbing their
sandwiches..>I actually said something and recieved a rude stare for my
efforts...
. 


Liz 
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 12:03:28 2002
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Subject: RE: installing a window
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:17:16 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

if you're installing in an existing window, just slap it up against the
inside of the window and add strips of quarter round on the inside to frame
it. you'd put a couple of small holes in the bottom strip for air
circulation, and a metal rod in the bottom piece of H lead frame for
support.

i don't recommend putting stained glass alone in a window. it's not very
strong, susceptible to damage, and usually not water proof.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

-----Original Message-----
From: DL Kankey [mailto:lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 6:58 PM
To: GlassList
Subject: installing a window


Hello everyone,

I am new to the group and new to stained glass work.  I love it!

Since I'm new to the whole thing (working with glass), I have a stupid
question...
How does one go about "installing the stained glass window"? 

I understand about the zinc/lead came and allowing for that, but once you
have finished where do you go from there? 

I think I'm going to try my first "large" panel, and it measures 3'x4'

Any advice, hint, tips...great!

Also if anyone can recommend a book maybe?

Thanks!
Deena





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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 12:18:14 2002
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Subject: RE: MSDS sheets
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google is your friend. the first link i found is
http://www.ilpi.com/msds/index.html

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peggy L Kinnetz [mailto:pkinnetz@juno.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:26 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: MSDS sheets
> 
> 
> I keep hearing to get the data sheets for various materials, but don't
> have a clue as to where to look. How do I get my hands on 
> these?  I think
> its a great idea.  I'm worried not only but the chemicals and 
> materials
> used in the shop but also in paints, and sculpture materials.  I  work
> with kids, and I'm suspecting that some of the general art 
> materials that
> we use, shouldn't be used.  
> 
> Peggy Kinnetz
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 12:26:25 2002
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X-Path: comcast.net!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: G-Identification of Messages (virus fighting)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:30:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>
References: <<1286324495.1032792080292.JavaMail.root@monkey>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

:OK - once again Guru Cec explains it all (rant mode on):  Virus Fighting

>
> I can guarantee you will sooner or later get a virus.  If you have a 
> PC instead of a Mac, your chances are about 6,000 times more apt than 
> if you have a Mac (yes - six THOUSAND).  If your machine is Windows 
> based and you use Outlook Express/Internet Explorer on a PC, you have 
> practically invited the majority of viruses into your computer, 
> because most of them exploit poor programming, bugs and security 
> lapses in these Microsoft products.  Using Outlook Express/Internet 
> Explorer on a Mac will open up the door to viruses that exploit some 
> of the problems in the Office suite - Word/Excel/PowerPoint, etc. - 
> dealing with macros. Some viruses are malicious and will destroy data 
> and programs.  Others are benign - they infect but are not supposed to 
> harm.  Unfortunately, considering that most viruses are written by 
> students, the author can easily have made an error which does result 
> in damage, so you want to get benign viruses off as fast as possible too.
>
> The latest and lingering pain in the butt is the Klez virus in any of 
> its forms (malicious and benign).  Klez, when infecting a machine will 
> search through your addresses, and find an address and then will make 
> its outgoing infectious message look like it comes from that address, 
> not from your machine.  It will then send that message to the rest of 
> your address book.  Furthermore, it will have searched through your 
> sent/incoming messages and it will have picked up a title or subject 
> heading from a legitimate email, and will use that subject heading for 
> its infectious message.  In other words, if that message starts with 
> Bungi: - or Glass:, it may well end up ON Bungi and someone can open 
> it and get infected.  No doubt you have recently received a message 
> that was filled with ??s, ///s and little squares and other gobbledy 
> gook if you don't have an UP_TO_DATE virus fighting program that is 
> scanning incoming messages.  This is probably a Klez document.  Delete 
> it immediately, and then run the virus fighter if it isn't set for 
> checking all incoming files.
>
> Currently, the greatest reservoir of Klez is in home computers.  And 
> that's because people haven't a clue.  Witness all those virus hoaxes, 
> where you get a message from some well meaning goop saying something 
> like watch out for X virus, Microsoft (or the Wall Street Journal) has 
> said beware, and send this message to everyone you know. And of course 
> there is no virus - it's a hoax. These chain letter warnings (yes they 
> are illegal), on the internet, can be almost as bad as a virus because 
> they proliferate geometrically, clogging up the system and scaring 
> people.  And if it was about a real virus, you would have caught that 
> virus long before you got the message.
>
> So here is what to do.  Read reviews of the various anti-virus 
> programs to see which one suits you.  Most commercial ones are just 
> fine - Symantic with its Norton version, Macafee, etc.  BUY one.  
> Install it. Many have a place in the Preferences/Settings/Control 
> Panel etc. where you can tell it to regularly go out on the net and 
> see if there is an upgrade.  If there is, it will download that 
> upgrade and then make sure you INSTALL it!!!!!  If you are dial-up, 
> then make certain you check for updates - many of the programs have a 
> regular monthly update that you should download and install.  
> Furthermore, if a new bad virus is going the rounds, check out CERN, 
> the FBI, Symantic, Macafee etc. to confirm that.  If they don't have a 
> new "fix" (called a patch) that you can download and install right 
> away, check out whether they - or others - have a small program 
> written specifically to kill that virus.  Generally those single virus 
> killers are FREE!
>
> Other things you can do.  If you are lucky, your internet provider 
> will scan mail for viruses, but most do not.  Your internet provider 
> is not at fault if you cannot sort your email, etc. (AOHell).  You do 
> NOT have to use AOLs pathetic built-in mail program - on your end.  
> Use Netscape, Mozilla, Opera, or Eudora.  There are plenty of places 
> on the internet telling you how to do so - including AOL, I think.  If 
> you are Windows, and your machine came with Outlook Express/Internet 
> Explorer or Entourage - don't use it.  Get Netscape, Mozilla, etc and 
> use that.
>
> Got that?  You do not need to be the wimp of the world, stewing about 
> viruses.  DO SOMETHING sensible - and positive! - (rant mode off) - Cec
>
> somebody@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I recently invited a virus into my computer by simply opening an 
>> e-mail that I suspected might be glass related.  It wasn't and I felt 
>> very foolish.  It took quite a while to rid my computer of the nasty 
>> bug.  I have suggested several times that people be more thoughtful 
>> when selecting the subject line.
>>
>> Some people resist putting "bungi" in the subject line for one of two 
>> reasons: They have the ability to sort all of their incoming e-mail 
>> and assume everyone else should as well, or they believe that adding 
>> "bungi" takes away space that would be better devoted to describing 
>> the nature of their inquiry.
>>
>> I do not believe that people are going to change their e-mail 
>> providers simply to be able to sort bungi messages.  And, I believe 
>> that most bungians would rather read any glass-related email to 
>> decide if it were interesting than face the dilemma of accidentally 
>> inviting a virus in or deleting a glass-related question.
>> I come down in favor of adding "Bungi" or "glass" to all subject lines.
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>

-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 12:41:24 2002
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X-Path: attbi.com!gruntfish
From: gruntfish@attbi.com
To: Touchstainedglss@aol.com
Subject: Re: Waxing Stained Glass Pieces
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 18:38:37 +0000
Message-ID: <20020923183837.YTLE464.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58>
Precedence: bulk


   Please don't take this the wrong way, (Maybe I am 
ignorant), but what in the heck are you talking about?

> I need some advise.
> 
> I waxed a recent panel with some stained glass compound, but it makes the 
> picture look dirty instead of bright and shiny. Could this compound be old 
> and thats why I am having this problem? I have scrubed to get it off. I would 
> much rather leave it alone that have it look dirty. Any advise is helpful.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jaci
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 12:52:25 2002
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From: gruntfish@attbi.com
To: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
Subject: RE: Glass & Pregnancy Inquiry..
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 19:03:08 +0000
Message-ID: <20020923190309.XEIK21615.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc56>
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  Boy howdy. I was always more worried about getting 
fish scales on my sandwich. 

   I used to bite the lead sinkers to set them into the 
line, and sometimes I would siphon gas out of the truck 
with a rubber hose. hehehe. It's amazing I'm still 
alive. =)

   I have a dedicated no eating/drinking policy in the 
studio, but I too know people who do glass work in their 
living room. Knuckleheads...
> when i was a kid, we used to crimp the lead sinkers on our lines with our
> teeth.
> 
> people just didn't, and don't, know.
> 
> regards,
> charlie
> cave creek, az
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tatt2LizID@aol.com [mailto:Tatt2LizID@aol.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 11:44 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Glass & Pregnancy Inquiry..
> 
> 
> In a message dated 9/22/02 10:45:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> glasscutter@earthlink.net writes: 
> 
> 
> 
> .  Also, stained glass work 
> NEVER should be done in the home--not only during pregnancy, but for the 
> safety of the child after it is born. 
> 
> 
> I just cringe when I read stuff about people doing glass on their kitchen
> tables... I read something recently, it wasnt in a glass thing...I think it
> was something  in some magazine about some woman and her life and happened
> to mention her having her stained glass set up in a corner of her
> kitchen.....do people even THINK...are they even aware they could be
> poisoning themselves? I know when I took my first glass class if I remember
> nothing else I remember how much it was drilled into us to not eat, drink or
> smoke while working with the lead parts of the glass process (and preferably
> not the others either..nothing like a nice glass chip in a quick swallow of
> coffee....). I set myself up in my basement and am absolutely scrupulous
> about handwashing before I do anything else. and changing my clothes too
> right after.  I might add for the fishermen (fisherpeople?) among us....I do
> the same after I handle those little lead pellets you weight the line with.
> I saw ! some guys last summer fixing their lines and then grabbing their
> sandwiches..>I actually said something and recieved a rude stare for my
> efforts...
> . 
> 
> 
> Liz 
> ----
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> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 13:49:40 2002
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Subject: RE: installing a window
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how do you get the desiccant out to bake it to remove the water, especially
if it's not sealed? after the first high humidity day, it'll be useless.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lori J. Mitchell [mailto:lmitchell@glastar.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 1:25 PM
> To: Spitzer, Charlie
> Subject: re[2]: installing a window
> 
> 
> Dear Bunjies,
> 
> I agree, also it makes at least one side of the window easy 
> to clean.  I 
> usually use a few grains of desiccant to control moisture.
> 
> Thank you, 
> 
> Lori Mitchell
> Chief Executive Officer
> Glastar Corporation
> www.glastar.com
> 
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 18:01:28 2002
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: "Gerry Phibbs (IGGA)" <glasscutter@earthlink.net>,
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Subject: Re: Glass & Pregnancy Inquiry..
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:30:59 +0100
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Precedence: bulk

Dear Bunginians, Gerry and Monona,

As regards Health and Safety Health and Safety Information, I will advise
you ALL to listen very carefully to what Monona has to say. She is an
exceptionally busy lady, but knows her stuff inside out. I personally have
nothing but admiration for her. I have real first hand experience of her
help, generosity and knowledge, in that I fought and won a court case in UK
based on the information and help she generously provided me with.
NEVER forgotten, Monona!!
As regards pregnancy - in particular, she is giving you sound advice.
Although I myself am a bit passed it,  I occasionally get a student in my
classes who (unbeknown to me) is pregnant. It is therefore of interest
(even) to me, what Monona has to say. UK does drag its feet concerning
health and safety - in comparison to USA
Thank you Gerry for asking Monona (and why didn't I think of
....:-(    )

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
www.northlights.co.uk



> For Stefanie, and the rest of the bungi folks,
>   I forwarded Stefanie Brown's inquiry on to a friend of mine, Monona
> Rossol, one of the few genuine experts in the field of safety in the
> arts and crafts areas, and one of the even fewer, whose opinion I would
> trust.  Here is her response, and I forward this to the entire group, as
> well as to Stefanie Brown
>   Peace  -Gerry Phibbs, IGGA
>
> Dear Gerry,
>
> Every year, we get hundreds of similar requests for information about
> pregnancy and lead exposure, especially from stained glass workers.  I
> don't know if you are aware of it or not, but many of our inquiries are
> referred by the Pregnancy Environmental Hotlines around the country, the
> March of Dimes, and many, many physicians who know of our weird little
> area of expertise.
>
> Our recommendations for any exposure to lead both before and during are
> always the same: don't work with it.  We take into account that most of
> us are carrying more lead than is good for us from ordinary pollution
> sources--air, water, dust in the home and urban environments, etc.
> With these body burdens, we do not need additional lead from our
> hobbies.  And there are lead-free methods we should all be using now.
>
> That said, the fact is that some people make their living or recreate
> with lead-containing materials.  For these people, the recommendations
> are as follows.
>
> First: get a blood lead test right away.  If your doctor does not
> provide the actual test results in numbers, get another doctor.  Some
> doctors have not kept up with the research and do not know how to
> interpret the results.
>
> Pregnant women should look at the actual numbers from their blood lead
> test and consider the following:
>
> * The average blood lead level for adults in the US who are not working
> with lead is 2 micrograms per deciliter (ug/dL)  If you are above this
> level, you are getting some contribution from your stained glass or some
> other source.  Look to your exposures and make changes.  And I would
> suggest quitting working with lead altogether.  Also, stained glass work
> NEVER should be done in the home--not only during pregnancy, but for the
> safety of the child after it is born.
>
> (I notice the questioner wants to continue to cut and shape glass.  If
> this is done in a studio away from home in which lead dust from others
> using lead is not present, it might be possible.  But if the edges are
> ground, there must be ventilation for the grinding area.  Here the
> problem is not only lead exposure to those glass colors that contain
> lead pigments, it is complicated by exposure to other toxic metals
> including cadmium (opaque yellow), arsenic (opaque white), chrome
> (greens and other colors), cobalt (blue), manganese (purple), and more.)
>
> * 10 ug/dL is the level at which children are known to be losing a few
> IQ points.  However, 10 is still considered "normal" or "OK" for
> adults.  The problem is, if that adult is a pregnant woman, the fetus'
> blood is also at about 10 ug/dL.  We see this as a situation in which
> the physician and the patient must use strategies to reduce the amount
> of lead absorbed by the fetus.  The most common strategy is to have the
> woman take more calcium since the body cannot tell the difference
> between lead and calcium and the fetus will take up proportionally more
> calcium than lead if the calcium/lead ratio is altered.
>
> *  If the results of the blood lead are higher than 10 ug/dL, you
> probably should consult a physician with an expertise in lead's effects
> as well as your obstetrician.
>
> * Pregnancy mobilizes calcium and stored lead from the bones of a
> pregnant women--even lead absorbed during the pregnant woman's childhood
> will be mobilized.  Since blood lead tests primarily reflect recent
> exposures (the last week or two), the woman's blood lead may actually
> rise during pregnancy without additional exposure if her body burden of
> stored lead is high.  We recommend one or two more blood lead tests
> during the pregnancy to monitor this effect.
>
> *  Keep your perspective and good humor during all this.  There is just
> no advantage to getting upset in addition.   Remember the effects at 10
> ug/dL are primarily intellectual and many, many normal babies are born
> to mothers at this level of lead.  But since we know that there is an
> effect on the brain, however small, it makes sense to try to reduce it
> if possible.
>
> The most important thing is to get those blood lead tests and get good
> medical advice.
>
> Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
> Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety
> 181 Thompson St., #23
> New York, NY 10012-2586      212/777-0062
>
>
>
> ---------------------------Original
> Message-------------------------------
> In a message dated 9/22/02 4:14:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> glasscutter@earthlink.net writes:
>
> > =====
> >
> > Subject:Pregnancy
> > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:38:14 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Stefanie Brown <xcyclone@yahoo.com>
> > To: Glass@bungi.com
> >
> > Since I really know none of you personally, I feel
> > like I can post this anaonymously without having to
> > worry who knows!  Anyway, my husband and I have
> > decisded to try to have a baby.  I've been doing
> > stained glass for 3 years, and I love it.  I primarily
> > work with copper foil, and primarily fairly large
> > panels.
> > Can a woman continue to work glass, but use lead free
> > soder without causing harm to a fetus?
> > What are you experiences?
> > I think If after all fo my research I come to the
> > conclusion that I have to give it up while I'm
> > pregnant, I will just continue with pattern design,
> > cutting of glass, filing, and get everything prepped
> > for when I can safely resuem the soder work.
> > Thanks for any input.
> >
> > Stefanie
> >
> > =====
>
>
>
>
> ----
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>

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 23 22:11:59 2002
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X-Path: comcast.net!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: Glass & Pregnancy Inquiry..
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:44:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>
References: <<549549415.1032829903250.JavaMail.root@monkey>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

At least in Maryland, and I suspect elswhere in the US, your local school system will have a list of art supplies that are deemed safe for children (and teachers - even pregnant ones).  Since that includes high school and high schools do sometimes have stained glass projects, some of our supplies will be on the list.  Call the central office and ask for the art curriculum people, or the purchasing department to get a copy.  I think you can be confident that if something is on the list, it is safe.  Of course the opposite is not true - other things not on the list may be safe also.  Still - for those of you who work with kids - this list should offer peace of mind.  Cec
-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 00:25:37 2002
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Dear Manager,
 
Our company, which was established in 1985, is one of the earliest as well as =
the most important suppliers in China that specializes in Construction tools =
& materials which are widely used in construction field. We are located in =
Suzhou city, the fastest developing area of Yanze River Economic Belt, and =
only 60 Kilometers to Shanghai seaport. 
With advanced technology and equipment, strict quality control, we can supply =
kinds of construction materials as well as construction tools. Our products =
sell well all over the world and we have exporting experience for more than =
ten years. Each year we deliver millions of Dollars of all kinds of products =
to our customers in America, Europe, Asia and Africa. 
Our co. always adheres to the principle of supplying the best possible =
quality products at competitive prices.
 
 Construction Tools & Hardware 
 Paint & Painting Accessories 
 Material Handling Equipment 
 Special Purpose Vehicles 
 Diamond Cutting Tools 
 Waterproof Materials 
 Construction Meshing 
 Job Safety Products 
 Pallet Rack 
 Nails & Screws 
 Scaffolding 
 Stone 
 
If you haven't found a supplier in China, please give us a try, maybe you =
will get a big surprise.
 
Tks & with b/rgds
 
Caroline Chen
 
Web for construction materials & tools: http://www.materialfair.com 
 
Web for diamond cutting tools: http://www.toolfair.com 
 
E-mail: info@materialfair.com   &  info@toolfair.com   
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 01:01:53 2002
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X-Path: yahoo.com!lsc324
From: LGS <lsc324@yahoo.com>
To: Glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: lead risks 
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:26:05 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@northlights.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

I am new to stained glass and have read the
information regarding lead hazards with interest. 
Although I am not concerned about pregnancy nor have
any children in my home, I am concerned about my own
health.  In the beginners class I took my instructor,
who had been working with glass for 20 years,
indicated that there was little chance of lead
toxicity to workers in stained glass.  The point was
made that lead fumes are not created by soldering and
very little lead dust is present in the process.  I
don't mean to imply that I disagree with what has been
said previously about the risks.  I am just confused
and don't exactly know what to think. If the risks
from lead are significant to stained glass workers, is
it significant enough to use only lead free materials?
 I also plan to work in a spare bedroom in my home and
am now wondering if this is a good idea.  I would like
to hear the opinion of the group on these issues. 
Thanks for your help.
Linda


__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 05:30:05 2002
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Stephen Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
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Subject: Re: installing a window
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:40:16 +0100
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In message <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>, "Spitzer, Charlie"
<Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com> writes [in part]
.............
>i don't recommend putting stained glass alone in a window. it's not very
>strong, susceptible to damage, and usually not water proof.

Charlie,
        I am not certain in what conditions you find stained glass
windows lacking in water tightness.
        I am currently dealing with a repair of a window built in 1904
that would still be water tight if a builder had not put a scaffolding
pole through it.  Of course the lead light cement does decay after many
years, and that leads to leaks (and rattling pieces too).
        This and many other leaded glass windows are performing well
often after 90 and more years.  They do not perform so well in doors.
There they should be double glazed or at least secondary glazed.

        If you are talking about copper foiled windows, I agree they are
not water tight.  They really never should be considered for primary
glazing.

Steve

-- 

Stephen Richard, Verrier
"Glass on Parade"
Glasgow, Scotland
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 06:33:06 2002
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From: Stephen Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: LGS <lsc324@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: lead risks
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:58:18 +0100
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The University of Davis has a comprehensive site on environmental 
hazards with a number of links (this seems to reflect the University of 
Virginia site - recognised as the leader in hazards information - with 
some additions): http://www.ehs.ucdavis.edu/im/msds.html

There a good USA government agency site:
Agency for toxic substances and diseases registry
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>, LGS <lsc324@yahoo.com> writes
>I am new to stained glass and have read the
>information regarding lead hazards with interest.
>Although I am not concerned about pregnancy nor have
>any children in my home, I am concerned about my own
>health.

-- 

Stephen Richard, Verrier
"Glass on Parade"
Glasgow, Scotland
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 06:45:43 2002
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Subject: Bungi: lead risks
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 8:21:54 EST
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********On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:26:05 -0700 (PDT) LGS wrote:

> In the beginners class I took my instructor,
> who had been working with glass for 20 years,
> indicated that there was little chance of lead
> toxicity to workers in stained glass.  The point was
> made that lead fumes are not created by soldering and
> very little lead dust is present in the process.  *************

Hi Linda - 

Don't feel bad - When I was learning SG - my teacher was very laid back
also. Yes we wore gloves and aprons, but that was to keep glass dust, flux,
etc. off of our clothes, etc. Not much was mentioned about the lead. Except
to have good ventilation.  

Even in the past year - I've heard more worries about lead poisoning, but
that you actually have to "eat" it to get it? That touching it and melting
it is not going to poison you. So yes it is very confusing.

After listening to much of the conversations going on . . .I am glad that
my shop is in the basement, the kids aren't allowed in the room while I'm
soldering, I do spend the $$ for a yearly lead test (I'm normal) and do
have a window open/cracked for ventilation.

I think it is a matter of common sense. If it is just a hobby and you
aren't soldering for hours everyday, you'll have less exposure, etc. If
you're a professional - you'll have more exposure and will have to
compensate for that.

Marci
Door County, WI







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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 07:07:49 2002
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Hello everyone.
I am starting my first stained glass project, and am trying to be cost 
effective.  Can anyone tell me anything about glass suppliers, or a place 
that sells stained glass for a good price in the Dallas area?

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3>Hello everyone.
<BR>I am starting my first stained glass project, and am trying to be cost effective. &nbsp;Can anyone tell me anything about glass suppliers, or a place that sells stained glass for a good price in the Dallas area?</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 07:42:54 2002
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Subject: Re: lead risks 
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:16:55 +0100
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For what it's worth, I was told by the managing director of one of the top
English studios that when they had their staff screened for lead levels some
time ago, no significantly high levels were discovered even among staff
members who would have spent many years working with lead.

I suspect the message should be that one should be reasonably careful
without being obsessed!

Paul




--------------------------
Paul Kennan
Dublin Stained Glass Supplies
62b Heather Road
Sandyford Industrial Estate
Dublin 18
Ireland
Tel:  (+353) 1 295 7261
Fax: (+353) 1 295 7297

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 11:16:06 2002
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Subject: Re: lead risks
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Message text written by LGS
>If the risks
from lead are significant to stained glass workers, is
it significant enough to use only lead free materials?
 I also plan to work in a spare bedroom in my home and
am now wondering if this is a good idea.  I would like
to hear the opinion of the group on these issues.<

My opinion.... I have been working in stained glass (both copper foil and=

lead) for 8 years as a professional.  Each year I get a lead test (blood
work) done from my local nurse-practitioner.  Each year has seen a rise i=
n
my lead count.  It is leveled off still well within the "safe" zone, but =
it
is a shock to see it go from 3 one year to 5 the next to 7 the next to 8
the next and then level off at 8.  So don't believe what your "old school=
"
teacher said about there being little risk.  There IS a risk.  And if you=

don't get yourself lead tested yearly, you will NEVER know if you are
working safe or not.

What have I done to minimize my risks?
- I pay attention to the MSDS and try to follow recommended storage
procedures and cleaning procedures.
- I keep my chemicals in a separate drawer away from everything else.
- Each day, without fail, after working in the studio I immediately go ov=
er
to the washing machine and strip my "dirty" clothes off and throw them in=

the wash, then immediately take a shower and wash my hair.
- Weekly I hire a cleaning person to damp mop my floor, removing or at
least minimizing the lead dust which does accumulate.  I do NOT use a
vaccume cleaner.
- I wash my hands anytime I leave the studio for any reason.
- I keep my lead came in a separate area of the studio, and try to keep t=
he
door closed at all times.
- I never, ever eat or drink at a solding or cutting or grinding table.  =
I
have a "cleanish" area right next to the computer where I can keep a can =
of
Coke.  Otherwise, I go into a different room to eat lunch, etc.

These have made a difference in slowing down/stopping my elevated lead
count.  I prefer to work with lead, not the lead-free solder.  And I do a=

lot of work with real 100% lead came.  I have NO intention of getting lea=
d
poisioning.  Hope this helps.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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Subject: Re: Glass Suppliers
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:46:47 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hobby Lobby has low prices but a real limited selection... Arlington =
Stained Glass is a family owned place with nice folks...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Gamesformeandyou@aol.com=20
  To: glass@bungi.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 8:31 AM
  Subject: Glass Suppliers


  Hello everyone.=20
  I am starting my first stained glass project, and am trying to be cost =
effective.  Can anyone tell me anything about glass suppliers, or a =
place that sells stained glass for a good price in the Dallas area?=20

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C263D0.D390E130
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hobby Lobby has low prices but a real limited =
selection...=20
Arlington Stained Glass is a family owned place with nice =
folks...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Byron...<BR>Wells Glassworks</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DGamesformeandyou@aol.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Gamesformeandyou@aol.com">Gamesformeandyou@aol.com</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dglass@bungi.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 24, =
2002 8:31=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Glass Suppliers</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3>Hello =
everyone. <BR>I=20
  am starting my first stained glass project, and am trying to be cost=20
  effective. &nbsp;Can anyone tell me anything about glass suppliers, or =
a place=20
  that sells stained glass for a good price in the Dallas area?</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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I believe you are a professional Christie??? I was wondering how this 
compares to the the "average" hobbyist who could have a panel sitting there 
for a few months working on it? 

Liz

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>I believe you are a professional Christie??? I was wondering how this compares to the the "average" hobbyist who could have a panel sitting there for a few months working on it? 
<BR>
<BR>Liz</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 12:47:44 2002
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Subject: Bungi - Glass Suppliers
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:53:24 EST
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I've always found this site pretty good for information . . . pick your
state and choose a city! 

http://www.thestorefinder.com/glass/glass_sr.html?content=storefinder.html

Good Luck!

Marci
Door County, WI


On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:31:51 EDT Gamesformeandyou@aol.com wrote:

> Hello everyone.
> I am starting my first stained glass project, and am trying to be
> cost 
> effective.  Can anyone tell me anything about glass suppliers, or
> a place 
> that sells stained glass for a good price in the Dallas area?


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 14:47:16 2002
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Bungi: lead risks
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:53:26 -0400
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020924105922.00ac9210@pop.erols.com>
References: <<200209241321.g8ODLxr37015@mail1.netacc.net>>
Precedence: bulk

I do drink from a closed container (my coffee cup has a lid).  I wash my 
hands after working. I use a work apron, because I like the pockets.  I use 
a fan to keep the fumes away from my face.  I am not the least bit 
paranoid.  My blood tests have never had an elevated lead reading...since 
1986, and there have been times when I worked 50-60  hours a week on 
glass...and others where I haven't at all.   I work with animals, too, and 
use basically the same personal hygiene procedure I do after working with 
them. A long day of work means a nice relaxing shower and change of 
clothes.    That's mental health!!
dee

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 18:41:04 2002
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X-Path: attbi.com!lkallen
From: "Kent Allen" <lkallen@attbi.com>
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Subject: Re: Glass Suppliers
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:33:18 -0500
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Check out Artisan Glass Works in Arlington, on Arkansas.  His prices are =
much better than=20
Arlington Stained glass and will order anything you need.

regards,

Kent
Wasatch Art Glass
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Byron Wells=20
  To: glass@bungi.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 1:46 PM
  Subject: Re: Glass Suppliers


  Hobby Lobby has low prices but a real limited selection... Arlington =
Stained Glass is a family owned place with nice folks...

  Byron...
  Wells Glassworks
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Gamesformeandyou@aol.com=20
    To: glass@bungi.com=20
    Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 8:31 AM
    Subject: Glass Suppliers


    Hello everyone.=20
    I am starting my first stained glass project, and am trying to be =
cost effective.  Can anyone tell me anything about glass suppliers, or a =
place that sells stained glass for a good price in the Dallas area?=20

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C263F0.78BABCC0
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Check out Artisan Glass Works in =
Arlington,=20
on&nbsp;Arkansas.&nbsp; His prices are much better than </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Arlington Stained glass and will order =
anything you=20
need.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kent</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wasatch Art Glass</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dbyronw26@attbi.com href=3D"mailto:byronw26@attbi.com">Byron =
Wells</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dglass@bungi.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 24, =
2002 1:46=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Glass =
Suppliers</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hobby Lobby has low prices but a real limited =
selection...=20
  Arlington Stained Glass is a family owned place with nice=20
folks...</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Byron...<BR>Wells Glassworks</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3DGamesformeandyou@aol.com=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:Gamesformeandyou@aol.com">Gamesformeandyou@aol.com</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dglass@bungi.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 24, =
2002 8:31=20
    AM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Glass =
Suppliers</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D3>Hello=20
    everyone. <BR>I am starting my first stained glass project, and am =
trying to=20
    be cost effective. &nbsp;Can anyone tell me anything about glass =
suppliers,=20
    or a place that sells stained glass for a good price in the Dallas=20
    area?</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 19:40:19 2002
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Subject: Re: lead risks
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:30:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by INTERNET:Tatt2LizID@aol.com
>I believe you are a professional Christie??? I was wondering how this =

compares to the the "average" hobbyist who could have a panel sitting the=
re

for a few months working on it?<

Yes, I am a professional stained glass artist.  Work about 10 hours a day=

at the stained glass.  Don't know how that compares with the hobbiest, bu=
t
I'm sure I'm on the high-end of the lead exposure cases.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 19:52:59 2002
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To: <Tatt2LizID@aol.com>,
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	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01C2640E.885B4DC0"
Subject: Re: lead risks
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:08:29 -0700
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we all work at different levels liz,  and look to each other info.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Tatt2LizID@aol.com=20
  To: glass@bungi.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:49 AM
  Subject: Re: lead risks


  I believe you are a professional Christie??? I was wondering how this =
compares to the the "average" hobbyist who could have a panel sitting =
there for a few months working on it?=20

  Liz=20

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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>we all work at different levels =
liz,&nbsp; and look=20
to each other info.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DTatt2LizID@aol.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Tatt2LizID@aol.com">Tatt2LizID@aol.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dglass@bungi.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 24, =
2002 11:49=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: lead risks</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>I believe =
you are a=20
  professional Christie??? I was wondering how this compares to the the=20
  "average" hobbyist who could have a panel sitting there for a few =
months=20
  working on it? <BR><BR>Liz</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 20:40:36 2002
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: msn.com!lightdesignsbydeena
From: "DL Kankey" <lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com>
To: "Kent Allen" <lkallen@attbi.com>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C26413.2235C2A0"
Subject: Re: Glass Suppliers
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:41:25 -0500
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------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C26413.2235C2A0
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How many of you are from the Dallas Fort Worth area?

I have been going to Arlington Stained Glass (high priced but nice people=
), and Hobby lobby in Colleyville.  They have a pretty good selection if =
you go on Mondays when their shipment of new glass is in.

Deena

----- Original Message -----
From: Kent Allen
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 9:11 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Suppliers

Check out Artisan Glass Works in Arlington, on Arkansas.  His prices are =
much better than =20
Arlington Stained glass and will order anything you need.
 =20
regards,
 =20
Kent
Wasatch Art Glass
----- Original Message ----- =20
From: Byron Wells =20
To: glass@bungi.com =20
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: Glass Suppliers


Hobby Lobby has low prices but a real limited selection... Arlington Stai=
ned Glass is a family owned place with nice folks...
 =20
Byron...
Wells Glassworks
----- Original Message ----- =20
From: Gamesformeandyou@aol.com =20
To: glass@bungi.com =20
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 8:31 AM
Subject: Glass Suppliers


Hello everyone. =20
I am starting my first stained glass project, and am trying to be cost ef=
fective.  Can anyone tell me anything about glass suppliers, or a place t=
hat sells stained glass for a good price in the Dallas area? Get more fro=
m the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C26413.2235C2A0
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<HTML><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff" STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;b=
ackground-color:#ffffff; "><DIV>How many of you are from the Dallas Fort =
Worth area?</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I have been going to Arlington S=
tained Glass (high priced but nice people), and Hobby lobby in Colleyvill=
e.&nbsp; They have a pretty good selection if you go on Mondays when thei=
r shipment of new glass is in.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Deena</DIV> <=
DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MAR=
GIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">=
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV =
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; COLOR: black; FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>From:</B=
> Kent Allen</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, =
September 24, 2002 9:11 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</=
B> glass@bungi.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> =
Re: Glass Suppliers</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C/=
/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" =
name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Check=
 out Artisan Glass Works in Arlington, on&nbsp;Arkansas.&nbsp; His prices=
 are much better than </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Arli=
ngton Stained glass and will order anything you need.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><=
FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial si=
ze=3D2>regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbs=
p;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kent</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT fa=
ce=3DArial size=3D2>Wasatch Art Glass</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr =
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt ari=
al">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4=
; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A href=3D"mailto:byr=
onw26@attbi.com" title=3Dbyronw26@attbi.com>Byron Wells</A> </DIV> <DIV s=
tyle=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com" t=
itle=3Dglass@bungi.com>glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10p=
t arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 24, 2002 1:46 PM</DIV> <DIV styl=
e=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Glass Suppliers</DIV> <DIV><FO=
NT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV> <=
DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hobby Lobby has low prices but a real limited selectio=
n... Arlington Stained Glass is a family owned place with nice folks...</=
FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>B=
yron...<BR>Wells Glassworks</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT=
: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5=
px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original M=
essage ----- </DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; =
font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A href=3D"mailto:Gamesformeandyou@aol.co=
m" title=3DGamesformeandyou@aol.com>Gamesformeandyou@aol.com</A> </DIV> <=
DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.c=
om" title=3Dglass@bungi.com>glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT=
: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 24, 2002 8:31 AM</DIV> <DIV=
 style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Glass Suppliers</DIV> <DIV><F=
ONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR><=
/DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3>Hello everyone. <BR>I am=
 starting my first stained glass project, and am trying to be cost effect=
ive. &nbsp;Can anyone tell me anything about glass suppliers, or a place =
that sells stained glass for a good price in the Dallas area?</FONT> </FO=
NT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML><br clear=3Dall><=
hr>Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : <a href=3D'http:/=
/explorer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>

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Subject: Re: lead risks
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:59:06 EDT
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In a message dated 9/24/02 1:55:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, CncptThnkr 
writes:


> Shhhh...never admit it takes us amateurs months to finish something.  *grin*
> 
> 
> oh I have a cat clock cut out from FOUR years ago...I was working on it 
> 



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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/24/02 1:55:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, CncptThnkr writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Shhhh...never admit it takes us amateurs months to finish something. &nbsp;*grin*
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>oh I have a cat clock cut out from FOUR years ago...I was working on it when I got pregnant.</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 21:01:32 2002
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Subject: Re: lead risks
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In a message dated 9/24/02 6:27:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
glassgirl@mindspring.com writes:


> we all work at different levels liz,  and look to each other info.


I didnt mean anything insulting..>I just meant that an amateur is probably 
far less likely to have a high lead exposure than someone who is putting in 
the hours neccessary to make their living at it.  sorry if it came accross 
that way. 

Liz





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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/24/02 6:27:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, glassgirl@mindspring.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">we all work at different levels liz, &nbsp;and look to each other info.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR>I didnt mean anything insulting..&gt;I just meant that an amateur is probably far less likely to have a high lead exposure than someone who is putting in the hours neccessary to make their living at it. &nbsp;sorry if it came accross that way. 
<BR>
<BR>Liz
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 24 21:10:36 2002
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Subject: re[2]: lead risks
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:30:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Lori J. Mitchell"
>Dear Christie,

Have these interventions lowered lead born blood levels?  Remember you
can't =

discount the risk of other environmental hazards.  Keep up the yearly
testing, =

however living in Los Angeles breathing alone can be hazardous.  Basic
safety =

precautions are usually enough.  Keep in touch and let us know you are
doing. <

For the past 2 years my lead count has held steady at 8.  I'm due for my
annual blood work next December.  We shall see if the move to Texas has
resulted in a higher, lower, or same level of lead.

Texas is now a heavily polluted state (thank you Mr. Bush....sorry 'bout
that folks), with the Dallas/Ft.Worth/Denton metroplex having a significa=
nt
number of code orange and code red air pollution allert days this summer.=
 =

Similar to LA.  All due to stupid SUVs and Tanks masquerading as Trucks o=
ut
on the miles and miles of highways, all driven by fools who think it's a
God-given right to drive something that gets 9 miles per gallon, while
drinking a Budweiser, tossing the can out the back of the truck, while
zooming along at (I kid you not) 90 mph while talking on a cell phone and=

eatting a hamburger.  And that's the girls!  Mass transit?  Are you
kidding?

Sorry, sorry 'bout my ranting.  I'm a Greenie at heart and it pains me to=

see such waste and greed.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 00:41:38 2002
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Stephen Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Tatt2LizID@aol.com
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Subject: Re: lead risks
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 07:57:49 +0100
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Liz,
        Lead exposure is a risk.  The ways of managing that risk is the
same for both the enthusiast and the professional.  The enthusiast is
likely to have much less exposure, but if proper precautions are not
taken, can actually ingest more lead than the professional worker.
        I take simple precautions (don't eat or drink while working &
wash frequently.  I don't smoke so that high risk of transferring lead
to my mouth is not there.  When creating dust, use dust mask and extract
ventilation.  I also use hydrofluoric acid, so am very conscious of
risks).

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>, Tatt2LizID@aol.com writes
>In a message dated 9/24/02 6:27:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>glassgirl@mindspring.com writes:
>
>
>  we all work at different levels liz, =A0and look to each other info.
>
>
>
>I didnt mean anything insulting..>I just meant that an amateur is probably
>far less likely to have a high lead exposure than someone who is putting in
>the hours neccessary to make their living at it. =A0sorry if it came accro=
ss
>that way.
>
>Liz

--=20

Stephen Richard, Verrier
"Glass on Parade"
Glasgow, Scotland
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 05:16:30 2002
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From: "Susan Hood" <glassharpgallery@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: lampworking beads
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:50:32 -0300
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Precedence: bulk


I've been doing stained glass for 12 years and since my hobby turned into a 
job, I've been looking for a hobby again.  I thought I'd give lampworking 
beads  a try.  I took the course on the West Coast, but since I live in Nova 
Scotia I've tried to find East Coast suppliers.  Any idea for someone close? 
  By the time I pay import duties, exchange and taxes I don't want the 
shipping to kill me too.
anything as far as new York would be reasonable.  I'm looking for Moretti 
glass as I love the colours.  Thanks for any help you can give,  Susan Hood


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 06:17:58 2002
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Subject: re: lampworking beads
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Hi Susan,
I get all of my moretti rods from http://www.delphiglass.com/   They =
have the best price that I've found so far.  If anyone else has found a =
better deal, I'd be interested to check that out too.  Delphi usually =
ships in a few days, never had to wait longer than 7 days to get my =
order.  Backorders are seldom a problem and their shipping charges seem =
to be fair.  I'm not sure if they'd charge different for shipping out of =
the US though.  I'm in WI and have all my things shipped from Lansing, =
MI.  They also have a free catalog if you don't want to order online. =20

Have fun with your new hobby, it's got it's own learning curve but I =
have tons of fun with it!!  Hope this helps, Mary

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Susan,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I get all of my moretti rods from <A=20
href=3D"http://www.delphiglass.com/">http://www.delphiglass.com/</A>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
They have the best price that I've found so far.&nbsp; If anyone else =
has found=20
a better deal, I'd be interested to check that out too.&nbsp; Delphi =
usually=20
ships in a few days, never had to wait longer than 7 days to get my =
order.&nbsp;=20
Backorders are seldom a problem and their shipping charges seem to be=20
fair.&nbsp; I'm not sure if they'd charge different for shipping out of =
the US=20
though.&nbsp; I'm in WI and have all my things shipped from Lansing, =
MI.&nbsp;=20
They also have a free catalog if you don't want to order online.&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have fun with your new hobby, it's got =
it's own=20
learning curve but I have tons of fun with it!!&nbsp; Hope this helps,=20
Mary</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 07:19:36 2002
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X-Path: msn.com!lightdesignsbydeena
From: "DL Kankey" <lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>,
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:52:14 -0500
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Christie,

With all due respect, the "allert days" this summer was due to the Pollut=
ion that drifted from the midwest factories, and the United states as a w=
hole not taking care of the environment.  We all suffer needlessly becaus=
e of industrial waste, not those of us that drive SUV's.  =20
I have three children and can't drive around in a small car.  Yes, it is =
my "God-Given right".  But, we are not all driving around, drinking beer =
at top speed, tossing beer cans in the back of our trucks.  Although, liv=
ing out in the rural areas, like Haslet, Argyle, etc...there are more far=
m lands, and I'm sure "good-ol-boys".  Ive seen them myself, they are ver=
y real (unfortunatly).  =20

But come on, your talking about a very wealthy, area that is rich in cult=
ure and the arts.  This area is not all "red-neck-truck-driving-dumb---st=
upid-Texans.  This area is full of your potential clients, and patrons.  =20

 I'm so Sorry if you are having a hard time adjusting to Texas.  I'm sure=
 it's a difficult change.  But does this at all have anything to do with =
"glass work"?  I hardly think you can blame us dumb --- Texans for a prof=
ession that you chose to enter, knowing that there are risks.  As for the=
 pollution, we all better start working on change.  It affects everyone, =
everywhere!

Deena

----- Original Message -----
From: Christie A. Wood
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:23 PM
To: Bungi
Subject: re[2]: lead risks

Message text written by "Lori J. Mitchell"
>Dear Christie,

Have these interventions lowered lead born blood levels?  Remember you
can't =20
discount the risk of other environmental hazards.  Keep up the yearly
testing, =20
however living in Los Angeles breathing alone can be hazardous.  Basic
safety =20
precautions are usually enough.  Keep in touch and let us know you are
doing. <

For the past 2 years my lead count has held steady at 8.  I'm due for my
annual blood work next December.  We shall see if the move to Texas has
resulted in a higher, lower, or same level of lead.

Texas is now a heavily polluted state (thank you Mr. Bush....sorry 'bout
that folks), with the Dallas/Ft.Worth/Denton metroplex having a significa=
nt
number of code orange and code red air pollution allert days this summer.=
 =20
Similar to LA.  All due to stupid SUVs and Tanks masquerading as Trucks o=
ut
on the miles and miles of highways, all driven by fools who think it's a
God-given right to drive something that gets 9 miles per gallon, while
drinking a Budweiser, tossing the can out the back of the truck, while
zooming along at (I kid you not) 90 mph while talking on a cell phone and
eatting a hamburger.  And that's the girls!  Mass transit?  Are you
kidding?

Sorry, sorry 'bout my ranting.  I'm a Greenie at heart and it pains me to
see such waste and greed.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
----
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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Christie,</DIV=
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>With all due respect, the "allert days" this sum=
mer was due to the Pollution that drifted from the midwest factories, and=
 the United states as a whole not taking care of the environment.&nbsp; W=
e all suffer needlessly because of industrial waste, not those of <STRONG=
><U>us</U></STRONG> that drive SUV's.&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>I have three chil=
dren and can't drive around in a small car.&nbsp; Yes, it is my "God-Give=
n right".&nbsp;&nbsp;But, we are not all driving around, drinking beer at=
 top speed, tossing beer cans in the back of our trucks.&nbsp; Although, =
living out in the rural areas, like Haslet, Argyle, etc...there are more =
farm lands, and I'm sure "good-ol-boys".&nbsp; Ive seen them myself, they=
 are very real (unfortunatly).&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>But co=
me on, your talking about a very wealthy, area that is rich in culture an=
d the arts.&nbsp; This area is not all "red-neck-truck-driving-dumb---stu=
pid-Texans.&nbsp; This area is full of <U>your</U> potential clients, and=
 patrons.&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;I'm so Sorry if you a=
re having a hard time adjusting to Texas.&nbsp; I'm sure it's a difficult=
 change.&nbsp; But does this&nbsp;at all have anything to do with "glass =
work"?&nbsp; I hardly think you can blame us dumb --- Texans for a profes=
sion that you chose to enter, knowing that there are risks.&nbsp; As for =
the pollution, we all better start working on change.&nbsp; It affects ev=
eryone, everywhere!</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Deena</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;<=
/DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5=
px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=
=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D"BA=
CKGROUND: #e4e4e4; COLOR: black; FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>From:</B> Christie =
A. Wood</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, Septe=
mber 24, 2002 11:23 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> B=
ungi</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> re[2]: lead ri=
sks</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>Message text written by "Lori J. Mitchell"<BR>=
&gt;Dear Christie,<BR><BR>Have these interventions lowered lead born bloo=
d levels?&nbsp; Remember you<BR>can't <BR>discount the risk of other envi=
ronmental hazards.&nbsp; Keep up the yearly<BR>testing, <BR>however livin=
g in Los Angeles breathing alone can be hazardous.&nbsp; Basic<BR>safety =
<BR>precautions are usually enough.&nbsp; Keep in touch and let us know y=
ou are<BR>doing. &lt;<BR><BR>For the past 2 years my lead count has held =
steady at 8.&nbsp; I'm due for my<BR>annual blood work next December.&nbs=
p; We shall see if the move to Texas has<BR>resulted in a higher, lower, =
or same level of lead.<BR><BR>Texas is now a heavily polluted state (than=
k you Mr. Bush....sorry 'bout<BR>that folks), with the Dallas/Ft.Worth/De=
nton metroplex having a significant<BR>number of code orange and code red=
 air pollution allert days this summer. <BR>Similar to LA.&nbsp; All due =
to stupid SUVs and Tanks masquerading as Trucks out<BR>on the miles and m=
iles of highways, all driven by fools who think it's a<BR>God-given right=
 to drive something that gets 9 miles per gallon, while<BR>drinking a Bud=
weiser, tossing the can out the back of the truck, while<BR>zooming along=
 at (I kid you not) 90 mph while talking on a cell phone and<BR>eatting a=
 hamburger.&nbsp; And that's the girls!&nbsp; Mass transit?&nbsp; Are you=
<BR>kidding?<BR><BR>Sorry, sorry 'bout my ranting.&nbsp; I'm a Greenie at=
 heart and it pains me to<BR>see such waste and greed.<BR><BR>Christie A.=
 Wood<BR>Art Glass Ensembles<BR>Denton, TX<BR>----<BR>For subscription ch=
anges, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com<BR>To send to the list,&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: glass@bungi.com<BR>Archives a=
vailable at http://www.bungi.com/glass<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML><br =
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 08:24:16 2002
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X-Path: comcast.net!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: [Fwd: Re: lead risks]
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:50:31 -0400
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Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

oops - meant to send this to the whole group. - Cec


The thing I'm always wondering is if that spare bedroom is going to get 
used by guests?  Is the bed all made or are sheets/blankets put on only 
when a guest comes?  And is it carpeted?
 
My basement is a real basement, cement blocks, spiders, crickets and 
all, and just cement floors.  There's no living area down there at all, 
so no reason for the grandkids to play down there or anyone else to be 
there unless it's my husband storing things or woodworking.

My friend and I went to a home show where they were demonstrating a 
floor "broom" that looks sort of like a rake with short rubber tines. We 
each got one and find it's great for cleaning the floors in the work 
area because it doesn't kick up a dust when you sweep with it.  And the 
rubber pieces are firm enough to exert some pressure on those larger 
bits of glass that don't move well with a regular broom.  You can even 
spray the floor with a fine mist to help lay the dust, and then sweep. 
You can probably see that broom being hawked on TV in the dead of night, 
along with the Ron Popeil thingyjiggies, OxyClean, and paint stripper - 
up to 6 coats in one application and it peels right off. - Cec

-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 10:08:48 2002
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X-Path: attbi.com!gruntfish
From: gruntfish@attbi.com
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: re[2]: lead risks
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:49:55 +0000
Message-ID: <20020925164955.SKIL16629.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc69>
Precedence: bulk

"And that's the girls!"

   Are you saying that the guys are worse? If you hate 
where you live, you should move. 
   Maybe you could let me know what sort of car you 
drive so when I toss out one of the many beer cans in 
the back of my 1969 Ford Ranger/Explorer at 90 MPH, I 
can tell my buddies that I just pinged a hippy... 
Hahahah!
   Yeah, I know, but I had to say it...
> Message text written by "Lori J. Mitchell"
> >Dear Christie,
> 
> Have these interventions lowered lead born blood levels?  Remember you
> can't 
> discount the risk of other environmental hazards.  Keep up the yearly
> testing, 
> however living in Los Angeles breathing alone can be hazardous.  Basic
> safety 
> precautions are usually enough.  Keep in touch and let us know you are
> doing. <
> 
> For the past 2 years my lead count has held steady at 8.  I'm due for my
> annual blood work next December.  We shall see if the move to Texas has
> resulted in a higher, lower, or same level of lead.
> 
> Texas is now a heavily polluted state (thank you Mr. Bush....sorry 'bout
> that folks), with the Dallas/Ft.Worth/Denton metroplex having a significant
> number of code orange and code red air pollution allert days this summer. 
> Similar to LA.  All due to stupid SUVs and Tanks masquerading as Trucks out
> on the miles and miles of highways, all driven by fools who think it's a
> God-given right to drive something that gets 9 miles per gallon, while
> drinking a Budweiser, tossing the can out the back of the truck, while
> zooming along at (I kid you not) 90 mph while talking on a cell phone and
> eatting a hamburger.  And that's the girls!  Mass transit?  Are you
> kidding?
> 
> Sorry, sorry 'bout my ranting.  I'm a Greenie at heart and it pains me to
> see such waste and greed.
> 
> Christie A. Wood
> Art Glass Ensembles
> Denton, TX
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 10:26:36 2002
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Subject: RE: lead risks
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:44:55 -0700
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i think non-professionals have a greater risk to having a higher lead
exposure. they usually don't have the necessary information, contacts, or
government regulation that professionals have.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

-----Original Message-----
From: Tatt2LizID@aol.com [mailto:Tatt2LizID@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 7:03 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead risks


In a message dated 9/24/02 6:27:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
glassgirl@mindspring.com writes: 



we all work at different levels liz,  and look to each other info.



I didnt mean anything insulting..>I just meant that an amateur is probably
far less likely to have a high lead exposure than someone who is putting in
the hours neccessary to make their living at it.  sorry if it came accross
that way. 

Liz 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 10:35:45 2002
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From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: non glass chat
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:19:27 PDT
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Aloha all,

When posting to the group please make note in the subject line
if you're not discussing glass related stuff.
Also again I will ask that all personal flaming be directed at the 
person only and not the while group.
Thank you.

-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 10:42:46 2002
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Subject: Glass Suppliers
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I just wanted to thank everyone for thier help with the info on glass 
suppliers. All the info was helpful.
And remember:
We are all in it together
-Pamela
Peace, love, and happiness

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3>I just wanted to thank everyone for thier help with the info on glass suppliers. All the info was helpful.
<BR>And remember:
<BR>We are all in it together
<BR>-Pamela
<BR><P ALIGN=CENTER>Peace, love, and happiness</P></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 11:40:07 2002
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From: "synergy glass" <seaspray@island.net>
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Remember folks...last time this happened we lost our bungi privileges for a
week or so...and it is a privilege.  Bungi exists only because of the hard
work Glenna and Dave put in to make this group happen, so let's get back on
track.  What's everyone working on?

Carol

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenna Rand" <gjr@bungi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:19 AM
Subject: non glass chat


> Aloha all,
>
> When posting to the group please make note in the subject line
> if you're not discussing glass related stuff.
> Also again I will ask that all personal flaming be directed at the
> person only and not the while group.
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 11:55:33 2002
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 12:11:32 2002
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For anyone in the Baltimore/DC area interested in joining a group of
glass enthusiasts, the Tiffany Lamp Artists Association is having a
general meeting in Columbia, Maryland on October 20th. From 1 to 4.

We love building lamp shades but also talk about all kinds of glass
work. Great fun and lots of support for those who feel they're working
in a void, as we often sometimes do! Totally not for profit organization, 
very fledgling, still finding our way, etc.

More details here:
http://www.bcpl.net/~panthony/tlaa/TLAAmeetingannouncement.html

--SB


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 13:18:13 2002
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X-Path: yahoo.com!texpenguin
From: Sherry Greer <texpenguin@yahoo.com>
To: GlassList <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: bungi flaming shameful
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:38:19 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
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What a shame that a few people got so worked up
that they hit send before they could cool off. 
I've just noticed that a longtime member who
regularly offers valuable advice and information
has just unsubscribed from the list.  Please
think long and hard before firing off a nasty
email.  Remember what your mom said--if you don't
have anything nice to say, don't say anything at
all.  Christie, I for one have many of your
emails printed and archived in my 'how-tos of
stained glass' folder for reference, and I'll
miss having your input on the list.  I live in
Texas too (though in hippy central down here in
Austin), and I took your characterization as
pretty funny.  I wasn't offended at all.  I hope
you'll consider rejoining the list sometime.
Sherry Greer

=====
Sherry Greer
texpenguin@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 13:37:26 2002
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Subject: Mosaic Tiles
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:41:03 EDT
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Does anyone have any experience with making glass mosaic 4" tiles? I usually 
do SG panels but have a client that wants some decorative tiles in her 
kitchen backsplash to match her window.

I got the mosaic procedure down and have done some of that stuff before, my 
questions would be how fragile are these small tiles? Has anyone tried to 
make them as thin as a regular tile? What about curing time before they can 
be set? Anything like that would be helpful..

Thanks
Libby Imbody
Walhalla Art Works
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 13:47:45 2002
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Great idea Carol!!  I'm working on getting together a good shipment for =
one of my stores.....tiny 3-d stars, dreamscapes, fall leaves, baby =
pumpkins, and birdhouses.=20

Who's next?

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C264A4.27668700
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Great idea Carol!!&nbsp; I'm working on =
getting=20
together a good shipment for one of my stores.....tiny 3-d stars, =
dreamscapes,=20
fall leaves, baby pumpkins, and birdhouses. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Who's next?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 14:53:51 2002
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:22:52 EST
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Hey Christie - Don't go! 

I know it's hard to ignore the flamers and let it go. . .  You have a ton
of information in your head from your experiences in Stained Glass, that
the rest of us like/look forward to hearing about! And will sorely miss!!!

Marci
Martin Designs




On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:11:51 -0400 "Christie A. Wood" wrote:

> 
> 
> Christie A. Wood
> Art Glass Ensembles
> Denton, TX
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,	    please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 15:15:16 2002
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From: "Ken & Carol Hutchinson" <mun00416@ntin.net>
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Subject: Re: bungi flaming shameful
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:34:11 -0500
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Here's another Texan, right up the road from you, Christy, about 40 miles,
who always appreciates your posts.

 You always seem willing  to completely answer even the most basic question
for newbies.  You have given a lot of your self,  your  knowledge and your
experience.  I hope you will reconsider and rejoin the list.

I have lived in the Dallas/Ft. Worth/ North Texas area for 51 years and
happen to believe you have only reported what you have seen.  I laughed out
loud when I read your observations.  I know that some people have no option
other than to be offended since you might have been describing them, but
hey, what's wrong with laughing at ourselves!

Carol Hutchinson

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 15:23:39 2002
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Subject: RE: Mosaic Tiles
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:02:28 -0700
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it would be far easier to make fused glass tiles rather than mosaics. i
suppose you could make them with the same stuff as coasters, but they'd
probably still be thicker than regular tiles. 2 layers of regular glass is
1/4", which makes good tiles and is about the same thickness as ceramic
tiles. if the glass ones were going to be interspersed within a field of
ceramic tiles, that's what i'd do.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CImbody@aol.com [mailto:CImbody@aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 12:41 PM
> To: 
> Subject: Mosaic Tiles
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with making glass mosaic 4" 
> tiles? I usually 
> do SG panels but have a client that wants some decorative 
> tiles in her 
> kitchen backsplash to match her window.
> 
> I got the mosaic procedure down and have done some of that 
> stuff before, my 
> questions would be how fragile are these small tiles? Has 
> anyone tried to 
> make them as thin as a regular tile? What about curing time 
> before they can 
> be set? Anything like that would be helpful..
> 
> Thanks
> Libby Imbody
> Walhalla Art Works
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
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KSee
www.kseeglass.com


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<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Trebuchet MS">KSee<BR><A=20
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 15:52:17 2002
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X-Path: sandblaze.com!slandon
From: "Sherry Landon" <slandon@sandblaze.com>
To: "Sherry Greer" <texpenguin@yahoo.com>,
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Subject: Re: bungi flaming shameful
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:14:37 -0400
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Hey, I just joined yesterday -- and already I am inundated with trivial
misplaced chatter having nothing to do with this art form we all participate
in.  And was stunned to awaken this morning to more than a dozen rants, and
then came home at 4PM to yet another lot.

To Everyone: I don't know about you, but if I wanted to chatter and banter
about random topics there are dozens of chat roooms I could participate in on
the web.  I joined this site to speak and learn from my SG peers.

To Christie: Please reconsider your removal from the list.  If the number of
participants is as high as they say, surely what has transpired is in the
minority and worth continuing to converse with people who are interested in
your experience, ideas, and sharing knowledge with you and likewise.

Signed,
A "newbie"
Sherry
The Enchanted Glassworks

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherry Greer" <texpenguin@yahoo.com>
To: "GlassList" <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 3:38 PM
Subject: bungi flaming shameful


> What a shame that a few people got so worked up
> that they hit send before they could cool off.
> I've just noticed that a longtime member who
> regularly offers valuable advice and information
> has just unsubscribed from the list.  Please
> think long and hard before firing off a nasty
> email.  Remember what your mom said--if you don't
> have anything nice to say, don't say anything at
> all.  Christie, I for one have many of your
> emails printed and archived in my 'how-tos of
> stained glass' folder for reference, and I'll
> miss having your input on the list.  I live in
> Texas too (though in hippy central down here in
> Austin), and I took your characterization as
> pretty funny.  I wasn't offended at all.  I hope
> you'll consider rejoining the list sometime.
> Sherry Greer
>
> =====
> Sherry Greer
> texpenguin@yahoo.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 16:21:49 2002
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X-Path: att.net!tonyk613
From: tonyk613@att.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:12:54 +0000
Message-ID: <20020925221255.OYPI29048.mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc17>
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I have been on this list for 2 years and the flames are not that frequent 
compared to rec.glass.crafts. It is difficult to express yourself without 
stepping on someones toes or hitting a nerve. I for one agree with Christine 
that SUV's and other large vechicles consume vast amounts of non renewable 
resouces. When I sell my work I always put the warning to dispose of the piece 
if it should become broken and list the dangers of lead to the environment. I 
for one would like to leave this planet a better place for my children. It all 
starts with one person, and regardless of your feelings about how one person 
expresses their viewpoint, we all still have to share this land, and each of us 
has to take reponsiblitlity for our actions and inactions. I think maybe this 
is the point that Christine tried to convey. 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 17:48:52 2002
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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:12:54 +0000
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I have been on this list for 2 years and the flames are not that frequent 
compared to rec.glass.crafts. It is difficult to express yourself without 
stepping on someones toes or hitting a nerve. I for one agree with Christine 
that SUV's and other large vechicles consume vast amounts of non renewable 
resouces. When I sell my work I always put the warning to dispose of the piece 
if it should become broken and list the dangers of lead to the environment. I 
for one would like to leave this planet a better place for my children. It all 
starts with one person, and regardless of your feelings about how one person 
expresses their viewpoint, we all still have to share this land, and each of us 
has to take reponsiblitlity for our actions and inactions. I think maybe this 
is the point that Christine tried to convey. 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 20:33:51 2002
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Stephen Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: CImbody@aol.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mosaic Tiles
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:51:45 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Libby,
        I have made glass tiles for some time.  I normally make them 6mm
thick (two layers).  This is about the thickness of ceramic tiles.  The
glass will want to be about 6mm thick under fusing conditions anyway.
If you don't start off that thick, they shrink.  If you make them 9mm
they expand.
        The glass tiles have greater strength than ceramic tiles for the
same thickness.
        There is no curing time, only cooling time.  As soon as they are
cool and cleaned, they can be installed.  However cementing them to the
wall is different from ceramic tiles.  You need white cement, it needs
to be put on smoothly, each tile needs to be "wiggled" about to remove
air bubbles, etc.  See www.verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk for a
description of glass tile installation.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>, CImbody@aol.com writes
>Does anyone have any experience with making glass mosaic 4" tiles? I usually
>do SG panels but have a client that wants some decorative tiles in her
>kitchen backsplash to match her window.
>
>I got the mosaic procedure down and have done some of that stuff before, my
>questions would be how fragile are these small tiles? Has anyone tried to
>make them as thin as a regular tile? What about curing time before they can
>be set? Anything like that would be helpful..
>
>Thanks
>Libby Imbody
>Walhalla Art Works
>----
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-- 

Stephen Richard, Verrier
"Glass on Parade"
Glasgow, Scotland
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 20:53:03 2002
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From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
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Subject: Re: Mosaic Tiles
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:44:48 -0400
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
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I agree with Charlie..I've made the fused glass tiles, too, both full fused 
(flat) and raised...my favorites.

dee

Christie, don't go....I laughed in recognition of this all too common 
stereotype too.

At 03:41 PM 9/25/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Does anyone have any experience with making glass mosaic 4" tiles?


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 21:08:10 2002
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X-Path: wmol.com!giapet
From: "Karen K." <giapet@wmol.com>
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Subject: Re: lampworking beads
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:37:06 -0400
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try http://www.arrowsprings.com
or
http://www.frantzbead.com/  (they are currently upgrading their website)

Karen=20
giapet@wmol.com

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: MB=20
  To: glass@bungi.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 8:41 AM
  Subject: re: lampworking beads


  Hi Susan,
  I get all of my moretti rods from http://www.delphiglass.com/   They =
have the best price that I've found so far.  If anyone else has found a =
better deal, I'd be interested to check that out too.  Delphi usually =
ships in a few days, never had to wait longer than 7 days to get my =
order.  Backorders are seldom a problem and their shipping charges seem =
to be fair.  I'm not sure if they'd charge different for shipping out of =
the US though.  I'm in WI and have all my things shipped from Lansing, =
MI.  They also have a free catalog if you don't want to order online. =20
  =20
  Have fun with your new hobby, it's got it's own learning curve but I =
have tons of fun with it!!  Hope this helps, Mary

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>try <A=20
href=3D"http://www.arrowsprings.com">http://www.arrowsprings.com</A></FON=
T></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>or</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.frantzbead.com/">http://www.frantzbead.com/</A>&nbsp; =
(they are=20
currently upgrading their website)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR>Karen <BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:giapet@wmol.com">giapet@wmol.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:mbeisner@charter.net" =
title=3Dmbeisner@charter.net>MB</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com"=20
  title=3Dglass@bungi.com>glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 25, =
2002 8:41=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> re: lampworking =
beads</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Susan,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I get all of my moretti rods from <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.delphiglass.com/">http://www.delphiglass.com/</A>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
  They have the best price that I've found so far.&nbsp; If anyone else =
has=20
  found a better deal, I'd be interested to check that out too.&nbsp; =
Delphi=20
  usually ships in a few days, never had to wait longer than 7 days to =
get my=20
  order.&nbsp; Backorders are seldom a problem and their shipping =
charges seem=20
  to be fair.&nbsp; I'm not sure if they'd charge different for shipping =
out of=20
  the US though.&nbsp; I'm in WI and have all my things shipped from =
Lansing,=20
  MI.&nbsp; They also have a free catalog if you don't want to order=20
  online.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have fun with your new hobby, it's =
got it's own=20
  learning curve but I have tons of fun with it!!&nbsp; Hope this helps, =

  Mary</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 21:29:17 2002
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Subject: current topics
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:09:15 EDT
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I'd like to say two things... 

First of all, I think we have MORE than covered the lead issue from many 
different directions and many differing opinions.  I'd like to see us move on 
to a new topic. 

And secondly, this is a glass forum.  I do not believe this is the place for 
people to air their feelings on environmental issues - or what kinds of cars 
people choose to drive. Now we seem to be getting into a discussion about 
whether men drivers are worse than women drivers.   I do not subscribe to 
Bungi to receive that type of mail. 

I have the UTMOST respect for the people of this group.  I am fairly new to 
glass - and quite inexperienced.  I have gained so much knowledge from all of 
the wonderful people on here.  I think we just need to remember what it is we 
are supposed to be discussing. 

Looking forward to gaining more insight from all of you. 

Loretta 
(Michigan) 

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#8000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">I'd like to say two things... 
<BR>
<BR>First of all, I think we have MORE than covered the lead issue from many different directions and many differing opinions. &nbsp;I'd like to see us move on to a new topic. 
<BR>
<BR>And secondly, this is a glass forum. &nbsp;I do not believe this is the place for people to air their feelings on environmental issues - or what kinds of cars people choose to drive. Now we seem to be getting into a discussion about whether men drivers are worse than women drivers. &nbsp;&nbsp;I do not subscribe to Bungi to receive that type of mail. 
<BR>
<BR>I have the UTMOST respect for the people of this group. &nbsp;I am fairly new to glass - and quite inexperienced. &nbsp;I have gained so much knowledge from all of the wonderful people on here. &nbsp;I think we just need to remember what it is we are supposed to be discussing. 
<BR>
<BR>Looking forward to gaining more insight from all of you. 
<BR>
<BR>Loretta 
<BR>(Michigan)</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"> </FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 21:40:18 2002
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Subject: 3 - D  STARS
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:39:50 -0400
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I would like to know how to make the 3 D stars that are so beautiful.  I =
have been experimenting with triangles, but can't seem to put them =
together right.   Does anyone have instructions with pictures they could =
send me?  Thanks for a great web site.   Karen Kovacs

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: " bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would like to know how to make the 3 =
D stars that=20
are so beautiful.&nbsp; I have been experimenting with triangles, but =
can't seem=20
to put them together right.&nbsp;&nbsp; Does anyone have instructions =
with=20
pictures they could send me?&nbsp; Thanks for a great web =
site.&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Karen Kovacs</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 21:47:04 2002
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Sherry Greer <texpenguin@yahoo.com>
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Ditto that message to Christie  Woods for me.  She has offered valuable
information .. in fact if she goes we are all saddened.  She is just about
the last of the professional bungians that has stayed with the group.  PJ


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 21:57:03 2002
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Precedence: bulk

Hey, us folks here in Maryland also consider her posts informative and enjoyed
the humor.  I stay so busy laughing at myself I can't really be offended when
others join in.

Ken & Carol Hutchinson wrote:

> Here's another Texan, right up the road from you, Christy, about 40 miles,
> who always appreciates your posts.
>
>  You always seem willing  to completely answer even the most basic question
> for newbies.  You have given a lot of your self,  your  knowledge and your
> experience.  I hope you will reconsider and rejoin the list.
>
> I have lived in the Dallas/Ft. Worth/ North Texas area for 51 years and
> happen to believe you have only reported what you have seen.  I laughed out
> loud when I read your observations.  I know that some people have no option
> other than to be offended since you might have been describing them, but
> hey, what's wrong with laughing at ourselves!
>
> Carol Hutchinson
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 22:03:44 2002
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X-Path: doorpi.net!mmam5
From: "Marci" <mmam5@doorpi.net>
To: "MB" <mbeisner@charter.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Bungi - Current Glass Projects
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:19:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@doorpi.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@charter.net>>
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Hi ya'll!

I'm working on an Angel pattern, a sunset landscape project and a baby =
shower gift! Seems like one thing after another!  Starting to get into =
"painting" on glass. We'll see how I do. I kept the emails from everyone =
about the best paints to use! Thanks everyone!

Marci

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: MB=20
  To: glass@bungi.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 2:59 PM
  Subject: re:non glass chat


  Great idea Carol!!  I'm working on getting together a good shipment =
for one of my stores.....tiny 3-d stars, dreamscapes, fall leaves, baby =
pumpkins, and birdhouses.=20

  Who's next?

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi ya'll!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm working on an Angel pattern, a =
sunset landscape=20
project and a baby shower gift! Seems like one thing after =
another!&nbsp;=20
Starting to get into "painting" on glass. We'll see how I do. I kept the =
emails=20
from everyone about the best paints to use! Thanks =
everyone!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Marci</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmbeisner@charter.net =
href=3D"mailto:mbeisner@charter.net">MB</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dglass@bungi.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 25, =
2002 2:59=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> re:non glass =
chat</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Great idea Carol!!&nbsp; I'm working =
on getting=20
  together a good shipment for one of my stores.....tiny 3-d stars, =
dreamscapes,=20
  fall leaves, baby pumpkins, and birdhouses. </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Who's =
next?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 22:10:40 2002
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: bellsouth.net!rmsb67
From: "RMB" <rmsb67@bellsouth.net>
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Subject: Re: bungi flaming shameful
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:40:20 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@bellsouth.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@ntin.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Just in case anyone is interested, you can always go to yahoogroups.com and
find a bunch of glass lists... or start your own.  Some allow OT posts, some
none at all, and some are somewhere in between, like if it is about your
glass business but not necessarily glass it's still ok.  I am shocked that a
very low traffic list like this one gets all bent out of shape over
something mildly OT but the owners have their right to be that way.  I think
I'm going off in search of something higher traffic and a little more
flexible.  Been nice getting to know yall.

Rebecca

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 22:11:04 2002
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X-Path: msn.com!lightdesignsbydeena
From: "Light Designs" <lightdesignsbydeena@msn.com>
To: "Sherry Greer" <texpenguin@yahoo.com>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0004_01C264BB.3E132820"
Subject: Re: bungi flaming shameful
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:44:48 -0500
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Dear group,

You are right, and I was wrong.  I have sent Christie an email asking for=
 forgiveness, and will probably order a small flower arrangment and have =
it sent.

I wanted to appologize to the group as well since I sent it out to everyo=
ne. Christie deserves a public apology, Here it is.
I'm not usually like this.  I do have a chronic illness that causes me te=
rrible pain, and today was not a good day!  Not an excuse, just an explan=
ation of why I was touchy.

Please all forgive, I'll stay off the computer when I'm hurting.  Better =
yet, I won't reply to any email for awhile.  But I will still read, becau=
se I do value the advice from everyone.

So sorry,
Deena (the hot-headed Texan)!

----- Original Message -----
From: Sherry Greer
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 3:28 PM
To: GlassList
Subject: bungi flaming shameful

What a shame that a few people got so worked up
that they hit send before they could cool off. =20
I've just noticed that a longtime member who
regularly offers valuable advice and information
has just unsubscribed from the list.  Please
think long and hard before firing off a nasty
email.  Remember what your mom said--if you don't
have anything nice to say, don't say anything at
all.  Christie, I for one have many of your
emails printed and archived in my 'how-tos of
stained glass' folder for reference, and I'll
miss having your input on the list.  I live in
Texas too (though in hippy central down here in
Austin), and I took your characterization as
pretty funny.  I wasn't offended at all.  I hope
you'll consider rejoining the list sometime.
Sherry Greer

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Sherry Greer
texpenguin@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
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----
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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Dear group,</D=
IV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>You are right, and I was wrong.&nbsp; I have s=
ent Christie an email asking for forgiveness, and will probably order a s=
mall flower arrangment and have it sent.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I w=
anted to appologize to the group as well since I sent it out to everyone.=
&nbsp;Christie deserves a public apology, Here it is.</DIV> <DIV>I'm not =
usually like this.&nbsp; I do have a chronic illness that causes me terri=
ble pain, and today was not a good day!&nbsp; Not an excuse, just an expl=
anation of why I was touchy.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Please all forg=
ive, I'll stay off the computer when I'm hurting.&nbsp; Better yet, I won=
't reply to any email for awhile.&nbsp; But I will still read, because I =
do value the advice from everyone.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>So sorry,=
</DIV> <DIV>Deena (the hot-headed Texan)!</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQ=
UOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RI=
GHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10p=
t Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4=
e4e4; COLOR: black; FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>From:</B> Sherry Greer</DIV> <DI=
V style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 25, 2002 3=
:28 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> GlassList</DIV> <=
DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> bungi flaming shameful</DI=
V> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>What a shame that a few people got so worked up<BR>th=
at they hit send before they could cool off. <BR>I've just noticed that a=
 longtime member who<BR>regularly offers valuable advice and information<=
BR>has just unsubscribed from the list.&nbsp; Please<BR>think long and ha=
rd before firing off a nasty<BR>email.&nbsp; Remember what your mom said-=
-if you don't<BR>have anything nice to say, don't say anything at<BR>all.=
&nbsp; Christie, I for one have many of your<BR>emails printed and archiv=
ed in my 'how-tos of<BR>stained glass' folder for reference, and I'll<BR>=
miss having your input on the list.&nbsp; I live in<BR>Texas too (though =
in hippy central down here in<BR>Austin), and I took your characterizatio=
n as<BR>pretty funny.&nbsp; I wasn't offended at all.&nbsp; I hope<BR>you=
'll consider rejoining the list sometime.<BR>Sherry Greer<BR><BR>=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D<BR>Sherry Greer<BR>texpenguin@yahoo.com<BR><BR>___________________=
_______________________________<BR>Do you Yahoo!?<BR>New DSL Internet Acc=
ess from SBC &amp; Yahoo!<BR>http://sbc.yahoo.com<BR>----<BR>For subscrip=
tion changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com<BR>To send to the l=
ist,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: glass@bungi.com<BR>Arc=
hives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT=
ML><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download=
 : <a href=3D'http://explorer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p=
>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 22:24:57 2002
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:01:12 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: hot.rr.com!pkelly
From: "Patrick Kelly" <pkelly@hot.rr.com>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: NG: Flaming
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:33:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@hot.rr.com>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I have been on this list for many years and appreciate all the tips and
tricks submitted by artesian and hobbyist alike. Unfortunately, we have
lost many contributors to opposing views on a variety of subjects not
really associated with glass. There is a time and place for everything
and this is the time and place for glass.
 
 
If you have a problem with a contributor talk to them not the whole
group. We don't want to hear your rantings and ravings unless its glass.
Additionally, some of the member around the world pay for access to the
internet and email by the minute and your non-glass related opinions
cost them a substantial amount of money.
 
Stick to the subject of this beautiful art form please.
 
Christie, if you are still on, please reconsider. You have always been a
fountainhead of knowledge on the subject. It would be a tremendous loss
to all of us if you leave.
 
Flame me if you want to. I have an ignore button for unsolicited
opinions.
 
My two cents worth!
 
Patrick
Roses and Rainbows
 
P.S. Note the NG in front of the subject, That is NON GLASS!
 
 
 
 
 

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<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>I have been on this =
list for=20
many years and appreciate all the tips and tricks submitted by artesian =
and=20
hobbyist alike. Unfortunately, we have lost many contributors to =
opposing views=20
on a variety of subjects not really associated with glass. There is a =
time and=20
place for everything and this is the time and place for=20
glass.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>If you have a =
problem with a=20
contributor talk to them not the whole group. We don't want to hear your =

rantings and ravings unless its glass. Additionally, some of the member =
around=20
the world pay for access to the internet and email by the minute and =
your=20
non-glass related opinions cost them a substantial amount of=20
money.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>Stick to the =
subject of this=20
beautiful art form please.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>Christie, if you =
are still on,=20
please reconsider. You have always been a fountainhead of knowledge on =
the=20
subject. It would be a tremendous loss to all of us if you=20
leave.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>Flame me if you =
want to. I have=20
an ignore button&nbsp;for unsolicited opinions.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>My two cents=20
worth!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2>Patrick</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>Roses and=20
Rainbows</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>P.S. Note the NG in =
front of=20
the subject, That is NON GLASS!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 22:34:43 2002
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: yahoo.com!xcyclone
From: Stefanie Brown <xcyclone@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: New Projects: Carved Door/New place to show/Blowing
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
Precedence: bulk

Well, until I DO get pregnant, I am currently working
on a door that I found at an auction.  It's carved in
an eastlake style, and I've just finished the design
for it.  I found cheap rhondels at Blenko, Alpine
glass has the next best prices on them.  Hopefully I
can complete the project before we conceive.
Also, since we just moved to the Des Moines, Iowa area
from the Quad Cities area of Iowa/Illinois, I've been
looking for a place to show my non-commissioned work. 
I finally found a guy here in Ankeny (the suburb we
live in) that has a really nice furniture shop that
will let me put my stuff in his window!  His wife is
an artist, too (she does oils and watercolors) and her
work is covering the walls there.  She is a fabulous
artist, and I look forward to meeting her.
I've decided to learn how to blow glass in the next
couple months.  I would love to be able to make my own
rhondels, and maybe a globe or two.  It's very
exciting, and I hope to have enough in my stained
glass account to start buying some good
blowing/cooling furnaces.  Are any of you blowers?
I'd really like to hear from you to get information on
setting up workshop, what tools I'll need, good
literature, etc.  

Stefanie Brown

=====


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 23:12:27 2002
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: aol.com!Tatt2LizID
From: Tatt2LizID@aol.com
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Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_10e.17fd278d.2ac3f7d9_boundary"
Subject: Re: lampworking beads
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:40:41 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk


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In a message dated 9/25/02 6:18:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
mbeisner@charter.net writes:


> Hi Susan,
> I get all of my moretti rods from <A HREF="http://www.delphiglass.com/">http://www.delphiglass.com/</A>   They have 
> the best price that I've found so far.  If anyone else has found a better 
> deal, I'd be interested to check that out too.  Delphi usually ships in a 
> few days, never had to wait longer than 7 days to get my order.  Backorders 
> are seldom a problem and their shipping charges seem to be fair.  I'm not 
> sure if they'd charge different for shipping out of the US though.  I'm in 
> WI and have all my things shipped from Lansing, MI.  They also have a free 
> catalog if you don't 


you must must MUST look at Ginger Sanders beads....I believe her site is 
www.beadmom.com.  unbelievably beautiful stuff...little hummingbirds, 
dolphins, ponies. unfortunately she is in CA, far from you.





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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/25/02 6:18:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mbeisner@charter.net writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hi Susan,</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I get all of my moretti rods from <A HREF="http://www.delphiglass.com/">http://www.delphiglass.com/</A> &nbsp;&nbsp;They have the best price that I've found so far. &nbsp;If anyone else has found a better deal, I'd be interested to check that out too. &nbsp;Delphi usually ships in a few days, never had to wait longer than 7 days to get my order. &nbsp;Backorders are seldom a problem and their shipping charges seem to be fair. &nbsp;I'm not sure if they'd charge different for shipping out of the US though. &nbsp;I'm in WI and have all my things shipped from Lansing, MI. &nbsp;They also have a free catalog if you don't </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR>you must must MUST look at Ginger Sanders beads....I believe her site is www.beadmom.com. &nbsp;unbelievably beautiful stuff...little hummingbirds, dolphins, ponies. unfortunately she is in CA, far from you.
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 25 23:39:05 2002
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X-Path: comcast.net!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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Subject: re NG - SUVs
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:55:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

Very sorry to see Christie go.

About SUVs, though - some are small - the RAV4 from Toyota, for example 
is built on an existing car model, and gets very good mileage.  I love 
mine and it's great for hauling glass or computers or whatever.  Much 
easier to get things in and out than the trunk of a regular car, and I 
can get bigger things in there than with a station wagon.

Another thing to think about - and if your kids are grown and you don't 
have grand kids, this will probably have never occurred to you - now 
that each child has to be in a car seat or booster seat until around age 
8 - that rapidly fills up a car.  2 adults and 2 kids are all you can 
get into a standard 2 seater car.  If you have 3 kids, you are going to 
need a 3rd seat, which means a big SUV, or a van.  And if you are the 
parent who ferries most of the soccor team to meets, you probably need a 
big one, too. - Cec

-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 00:23:23 2002
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X-Path: yahoo.com!beadnik
From: Joan <beadnik@yahoo.com>
To: Susan Hood <glassharpgallery@hotmail.com>, glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: lampworking beads
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:54:28 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@hotmail.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Susan....

You could also check out Wale Apparatus, which is
located in Hellertown, PA... probably the closest to
the East Coast of the various suppliers mentioned.  

http://www.waleapparatus.com/

Good luck!

Joan

--- Susan Hood <glassharpgallery@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I've been doing stained glass for 12 years and since
> my hobby turned into a 
> job, I've been looking for a hobby again.  I thought
> I'd give lampworking 
> beads  a try.  I took the course on the West Coast,
> but since I live in Nova 
> Scotia I've tried to find East Coast suppliers.  Any
> idea for someone close? 
>   By the time I pay import duties, exchange and
> taxes I don't want the 
> shipping to kill me too.
> anything as far as new York would be reasonable. 
> I'm looking for Moretti 
> glass as I love the colours.  Thanks for any help
> you can give,  Susan Hood
> 
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN
> Hotmail. 
> http://www.hotmail.com
> 
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 00:38:00 2002
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X-Path: logtek.co.za!kevin
From: Kevin Luyt <kevin@logtek.co.za>
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 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Kevin Luyt  
Sent:	26 September 2002 09:07
To:	'glass@bungi.com'
Subject:	UN-SUBSCRIBE - URGENT !!!!!!!

HI GUYS

PLEASE UN-SUBSCRIBE ME TO THE MAILING LIST. THIS IS MY E-MAIL AT WORK AND IT
IS CREATING A BIT OF A PROBLEM ESPECIALLY IF YOU RECEIVE 105 E-MAILS IN 4
DAYS.

I WILL RE-SUBSCRIBE FROM HOME.

REGARDS
KEVIN 
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 00:56:06 2002
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 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Kevin Luyt  
Sent:	26 September 2002 09:07
To:	'glass@bungi.com'
Subject:	UN-SUBSCRIBE - URGENT !!!!!!!

HI GUYS

PLEASE UN-SUBSCRIBE ME TO THE MAILING LIST. THIS IS MY E-MAIL AT WORK AND IT
IS CREATING A BIT OF A PROBLEM ESPECIALLY IF YOU RECEIVE 105 E-MAILS IN 4
DAYS.

I WILL RE-SUBSCRIBE FROM HOME.

REGARDS
KEVIN 
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 03:00:03 2002
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X-Path: udrescu.ro!udrescu
From: "Daniel Udrescu" <udrescu@udrescu.ro>
To: <dw@dwaynew.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01C26558.C3D2BA50"
Subject: Godly Business
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:32:23 +0300
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@udrescu.ro>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C26558.C3D2BA50
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi,
=20

I am a first time writer and my book is called Godly Business.  God has =
prepared me
to be of help to others and in my travel around the world He showed me =
how.
=20

Business is everything we do.  If we are a nurse, a cop, a house manager =
or an
electrician, we all exchange our work for a reward.  We work - therefore =
we are
conducting a business.  God's plan for us is complex and we need to =
learn to work
for Him in order to work with Him.  Jesus mentioned that He was here on =
Earth on His
Father business.  Angelical beings are also in God's business.  The =
result is
probably amazing that God is a business "man" and we are educated to =
learn to work
in His kingdom.
=20

For those of you interested to see the Bible as a business manual, I =
recommend you
take a look at Godly Business.  You could find it at www.xulonpress.com, =
in the
online bookstore, then pull down the menu and go to Christian Living.  =
The book
should be on page 2 of 25.
=20

I am currently working in Romania where I hope I can use my skills to =
help those
around us who are less prepared for God's work.  However, I am very near =
and I can
answer your questions directly via this email address or on =
www.baptistboard.com.
=20

Sorry if I took a minute of your time.  It might be changing the way you =
look at
what God wants out of you.
=20

God bless you,
=20

Daniel S. Udrescu CPA


------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C26558.C3D2BA50
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,<BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am a first time writer and my book is =
called=20
Godly Business.&nbsp; God has prepared me<BR>to be of help to others and =
in my=20
travel around the world He showed me how.<BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Business is everything we do.&nbsp; If =
we are a=20
nurse, a cop, a house manager or an<BR>electrician, we all exchange our =
work for=20
a reward.&nbsp; We work - therefore we are<BR>conducting a =
business.&nbsp; God's=20
plan for us is complex and we need to learn to work<BR>for Him in order =
to work=20
with Him.&nbsp; Jesus mentioned that He was here on Earth on =
His<BR>Father=20
business.&nbsp; Angelical beings are also in God's business.&nbsp; The =
result=20
is<BR>probably amazing that God is a business "man" and we are educated =
to learn=20
to work<BR>in His kingdom.<BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For those of you interested to see the =
Bible as a=20
business manual, I recommend you<BR>take a look at Godly Business.&nbsp; =
You=20
could find it at <A =
href=3D"http://www.xulonpress.com">www.xulonpress.com</A>, in=20
the<BR>online bookstore, then pull down the menu and go to Christian=20
Living.&nbsp; The book<BR>should be on page 2 of =
25.<BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am currently working in Romania where =
I hope I=20
can use my skills to help those<BR>around us who are less prepared for =
God's=20
work.&nbsp; However, I am very near and I can<BR>answer your questions =
directly=20
via this email address or on <A=20
href=3D"http://www.baptistboard.com">www.baptistboard.com</A>.<BR>&nbsp;<=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sorry if I took a minute of your =
time.&nbsp; It=20
might be changing the way you look at<BR>what God wants out of=20
you.<BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>God bless you,<BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Daniel S. Udrescu=20
CPA<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 03:14:24 2002
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	for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 02:55:16 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: northlights.co.uk!toby
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: "Patrick Kelly" <pkelly@hot.rr.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0089_01C2654A.C0EAE500"
Subject: Re: Flaming  - Toby 'n co touching base
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:52:05 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@northlights.co.uk>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@hot.rr.com>>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0089_01C2654A.C0EAE500
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MessageDear All,  Dear Patrick,
How right you are!=20
Here is another "oldie" from Across-the-Pond, and one of the ones who =
has to pay by the minute. I lurk more these days, but am still around.=20
Many of you still around in Bungi, are people I have spent days, =
sometimes weeks with - in person. I know you well and treasure the fun =
we have had together. When I need a reception tent in the garden, I'll =
pull out my Texas T-shirt (a present from Patrick!) and put that up ;-) =
So I have a soft spot for Texans!
Christie took me out to saviour that "Phillyburger" that Patrick =
eulegized over and I spent a day being "gofer" in her studio, meeting =
her family too. I have a lot of respect for Christie and her hard work, =
as well as her contributions over the years.
Cec and I shared workbench space for a few days against a back-drop of =
the most glorious sunrises and sunsets I think I have ever seen, =
especially with deer walking almost straight passed my breakfast table.
I noticed that KSee has re-subscribed. Welcome back KSee!!  I still have =
my little sets of instruments ;-)

There are gentle and fun moments over the years and a lot of stained =
glass knowledge to be shared around. let's all try and keep it that way.
Laughter will bring and keep us together, flaming won't.

MY stained glass question / challenge: I have just completed 2 pear-tree =
"Tree of Life" designs, one of them semi-circular, the other one round =
(approx 700 mm in dia). The semi-circle is already up on my web-site =
(but not the round one). The circular panel is to be set in a wooden =
frame about 10 ft high up into a wall and artificially back-lit. What =
would you have chosen as the "back-ground" glass (and why)? How would =
you chose and arrange the artifical lighting? What would you do with the =
wall itself inside the "box", which is currently heavily pebbled and =
whitewashed?

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
www.northlights.co.uk





  I have been on this list for many years and appreciate all the tips =
and tricks submitted by artesian and hobbyist alike. Unfortunately, we =
have lost many contributors to opposing views on a variety of subjects =
not really associated with glass. There is a time and place for =
everything and this is the time and place for glass.
  =20
  =20
  If you have a problem with a contributor talk to them not the whole =
group. We don't want to hear your rantings and ravings unless its glass. =
Additionally, some of the member around the world pay for access to the =
internet and email by the minute and your non-glass related opinions =
cost them a substantial amount of money.
  =20
  Stick to the subject of this beautiful art form please.
  =20
  Christie, if you are still on, please reconsider. You have always been =
a fountainhead of knowledge on the subject. It would be a tremendous =
loss to all of us if you leave.
  =20
  Flame me if you want to. I have an ignore button for unsolicited =
opinions.
  =20
  My two cents worth!
  =20
  Patrick
  Roses and Rainbows
  =20
  P.S. Note the NG in front of the subject, That is NON GLASS!
  =20
  =20
  =20
  =20
  =20

------=_NextPart_000_0089_01C2654A.C0EAE500
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff style=3D"COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Dear All,  Dear Patrick,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>How right you are! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Here is another "oldie" from Across-the-Pond, and =
one of the=20
ones who has to pay by the minute. I lurk more these days, but am still =
around.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Many of you still around in Bungi, are people I have =
spent=20
days, sometimes weeks with - in person. I know you well and treasure the =
fun we=20
have had together. When I need a reception tent in the garden, I'll pull =
out my=20
Texas T-shirt (a present from Patrick!) and put that up ;-) So I have a =
soft=20
spot for Texans!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Christie took me out to saviour that "Phillyburger" =
that=20
Patrick eulegized over and I spent a day being "gofer" in her studio, =
meeting=20
her family too. I have a lot of respect for Christie and her hard work, =
as well=20
as her contributions over the years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cec and I shared workbench space for a few days =
against a=20
back-drop of the most glorious sunrises and sunsets I think I have ever =
seen,=20
especially with deer walking almost straight passed my breakfast=20
table.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I noticed that KSee has re-subscribed. Welcome back=20
KSee!!&nbsp; I still have my little sets of instruments ;-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>There are gentle and fun moments over the years and =
a lot of=20
stained glass knowledge to be shared around. let's all try and keep it =
that=20
way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Laughter will bring and keep us together, flaming=20
won't.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>MY stained glass question / challenge: I have just =
completed 2=20
pear-tree "Tree of Life" designs, one of them semi-circular, the other =
one round=20
(approx 700 mm in dia). The semi-circle is already up on my web-site =
(but not=20
the round one). The circular panel is to be set in a wooden frame about =
10 ft=20
high up into a wall and artificially back-lit. What would you have =
chosen as the=20
"back-ground" glass (and why)?&nbsp;How would you chose and arrange the=20
artifical lighting? What would you do with the wall itself inside the =
"box",=20
which is currently heavily pebbled and whitewashed?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.northlights.co.uk">www.northlights.co.uk</A></FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>I have been on =
this list for=20
  many years and appreciate all the tips and tricks submitted by =
artesian and=20
  hobbyist alike. Unfortunately, we have lost many contributors to =
opposing=20
  views on a variety of subjects not really associated with glass. There =
is a=20
  time and place for everything and this is the time and place for=20
  glass.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>If you have a =
problem with a=20
  contributor talk to them not the whole group. We don't want to hear =
your=20
  rantings and ravings unless its glass. Additionally, some of the =
member around=20
  the world pay for access to the internet and email by the minute and =
your=20
  non-glass related opinions cost them a substantial amount of=20
  money.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>Stick to the =
subject of this=20
  beautiful art form please.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>Christie, if you =
are still=20
  on, please reconsider. You have always been a fountainhead of =
knowledge on the=20
  subject. It would be a tremendous loss to all of us if you=20
  leave.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>Flame me if you =
want to. I=20
  have an ignore button&nbsp;for unsolicited =
opinions.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>My two cents=20
  worth!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2>Patrick</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>Roses and=20
  Rainbows</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT size=3D2>P.S. Note the NG =
in front of=20
  the subject, That is NON GLASS!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D753201604-26092002><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 03:32:33 2002
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X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: istvan5@sympatico.ca, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: 3 - D Glass Stars
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 06:16:59 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Karen,

There is a book that has patterns for 3D stars.  The name is "Star Quality 3d 
Accessories".  It's under $10.00 at Delphi.

Pat
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 04:04:02 2002
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X-Path: charter.net!mbeisner
From: "MB" <mbeisner@charter.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005F_01C26521.954F6610"
Subject: Re: 3 - D  STARS
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 05:57:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@charter.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@sympatico.ca>>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C26521.954F6610
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Karen,
I'm going to e-mail you some patterns for the 3-d stars I have on hand.  =
Didn't want to clog up everyone's e-mail on the list, so if anyone else =
would like them, just let me know and I'll send them out individually.  =
Have a great day! Mary

------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C26521.954F6610
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Karen,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm going to e-mail you some patterns =
for the 3-d=20
stars I have on hand.&nbsp; Didn't want to clog up everyone's e-mail on =
the=20
list, so if anyone else would like them, just let me know and I'll send =
them out=20
individually.&nbsp; Have a great day! Mary</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 05:05:22 2002
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From: Bergju@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: re[2]: lead risks
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 07:32:58 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

<PRE>I'm another texan who doesn't drive drunk throwing beer cans...thanks deena. 
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 05:34:58 2002
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	for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 05:23:01 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: csinet.net!stainedglasslamps
From: "Stained Glass Lamps" <stainedglasslamps@csinet.net>
To: "MB" <mbeisner@charter.net>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2652C.DEAAD820"
Subject: Re: 3 - D  STARS
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 07:18:10 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi,
I would love to have you send them to me too.  That is soooo nice of =
you. Thank you & have a good day. Hope you get this....
Mary & Arkie Pisello=20
Our web site  www.stainedglasslamps.com
Thanks again=20
Our email   stainedglasslamps@csinet.net
    -----Original Message-----
    From: MB <mbeisner@charter.net>
    To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
    Date: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:07 AM
    Subject: Re: 3 - D STARS
   =20
   =20
    Hi Karen,
    I'm going to e-mail you some patterns for the 3-d stars I have on =
hand.  Didn't want to clog up everyone's e-mail on the list, so if =
anyone else would like them, just let me know and I'll send them out =
individually.  Have a great day! Mary

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2652C.DEAAD820
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 =
Transitional//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4></FONT><FONT size=3D4>I would love =
to have you=20
send them to me too.&nbsp; That is soooo nice of you. Thank you &amp; =
have a=20
good day. Hope you get this....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Mary &amp; Arkie Pisello </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Our web site&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.stainedglasslamps.com">www.stainedglasslamps.com</A></=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks again =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>Our =
email&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
stainedglasslamps@csinet.net</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>MB &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:mbeisner@charter.net">mbeisner@charter.net</A>&gt;<BR><B>T=
o:=20
    </B><A href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A> &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:07 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: 3 - =
D=20
    STARS<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Karen,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm going to e-mail you some =
patterns for the=20
    3-d stars I have on hand.&nbsp; Didn't want to clog up everyone's =
e-mail on=20
    the list, so if anyone else would like them, just let me know and =
I'll send=20
    them out individually.&nbsp; Have a great day!=20
Mary</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 06:38:09 2002
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X-Path: comcast.net!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: re mosaics-shiny tape
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:16:59 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

Has any one used what appears to be a silvered tape that you apparently 
stick to the back of glass?  It's made by one of the foil makers, and 
comes in silver and gold colors, I think.  It is self stick?  Not meant 
for fusing?

There's been some talk about making glass tiles - which I've been 
contemplating, and I wondered if that tape would make a good opaque 
backing for otherwise transparent tiles.

And you cannot use clear silicone goop for attaching tiles to a wall? - Cec

-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 07:09:57 2002
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X-Path: Corpit.com!dterrill
From: Dan Terrill <dterrill@Corpit.com>
To: 'Cecily & Ralph Wood' <cecnralph@comcast.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: re mosaics-shiny tape
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:32:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@Corpit.com>
Precedence: bulk

I've never worked with it, but my mother does. She loves it, and it really
ends up looking nice.

It is self-stick, and it's not for fusing. It does indeed make a good opaque
backing for transparent glass.

One of the uses my mom makes of it is  to sign her mosaic work. She signs
the shiny part of the foil, sticks it to transparent glass, and puts that in
the mosaic. Looks good!


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecily & Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@comcast.net]
> 
> Has any one used what appears to be a silvered tape that you 
> apparently 
> stick to the back of glass?
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 08:11:34 2002
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X-Path: compuquestinc.com!marge
From: "Marge Lind" <marge@compuquestinc.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Bungi - New Projects - Glass Blowing
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:57:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuquestinc.com>
Organization: http://www.compuquestinc.com
Precedence: bulk

In answer to Stephanie's email about starting glass blowing.

I am taking a class in November on beginning glass blowing. It is one intense 
weekend from 9:00 A.M. to 4:30 P.M. each day. The class is limited to 4 students.
We are supposed to make at least 3 items. I am sure these will be globs, but I will 
be proud anyway. The artist/teacher has studied at Pilchuck (Dale Chihuly) in 
Seattle. The studio is located in Chicago. There are advanced classes also. I can 
hardly wait!

Here is the website for the studio:

http://www.talismanglass.com/


Have a great day.

Marge  



-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Compuquest, Inc.  Fax: 630-830-0877
630-830-2700      www.compuquestinc.com
           Since 1983 
  Innovative Technology Solutions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 08:43:21 2002
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X-Path: yahoo.com!xcyclone
From: Stefanie Brown <xcyclone@yahoo.com>
To: Marge Lind <marge@compuquestinc.com>, glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bungi - New Projects - Glass Blowing
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:37:31 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@compuquestinc.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Perfect!
I live in Iowa, and I have a lot of friends in Chicago
that I can stay with to keep costs down!
I'm very excited about this information!  Thank you!
Look at all my exclamation marks!

--- Marge Lind <marge@compuquestinc.com> wrote:
> In answer to Stephanie's email about starting glass
> blowing.
> 
> I am taking a class in November on beginning glass
> blowing. It is one intense 
> weekend from 9:00 A.M. to 4:30 P.M. each day. The
> class is limited to 4 students.
> We are supposed to make at least 3 items. I am sure
> these will be globs, but I will 
> be proud anyway. The artist/teacher has studied at
> Pilchuck (Dale Chihuly) in 
> Seattle. The studio is located in Chicago. There are
> advanced classes also. I can 
> hardly wait!
> 
> Here is the website for the studio:
> 
> http://www.talismanglass.com/
> 
> 
> Have a great day.
> 
> Marge  
> 
> 
> 
> -
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Compuquest, Inc.  Fax: 630-830-0877
> 630-830-2700      www.compuquestinc.com
>            Since 1983 
>   Innovative Technology Solutions
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to:
> glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 09:43:41 2002
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Please unsubscribe me from the list.
Thanks
Realmuto95@aol.com

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Please unsubscribe me from the list.
<BR>Thanks
<BR>Realmuto95@aol.com</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 10:16:15 2002
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	for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: yahoo.com!xcyclone
From: Stefanie Brown <xcyclone@yahoo.com>
To: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>, glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: RE: New Projects: Carved Door/New place to show/Blowing
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:44:10 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
References: <<75F036A5970CD311A993009027283DC40138D824@exphx.az.stratus.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Does this mean they are selling their hot shop in
total, or they are selling hot glass there at a
discount?
--- "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
wrote:
> there's a blowing shop here in cave creek, az that
> is selling an entire shop
> of hot glass at a discount from new prices.
> 
> http://redhotglass.com has their contact
> information. 
> 
> regards,
> charlie
> cave creek, az
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stefanie Brown [mailto:xcyclone@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 9:57 PM
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: New Projects: Carved Door/New place to
> show/Blowing
> > 
> > 
> > Well, until I DO get pregnant, I am currently
> working
> > on a door that I found at an auction.  It's carved
> in
> > an eastlake style, and I've just finished the
> design
> > for it.  I found cheap rhondels at Blenko, Alpine
> > glass has the next best prices on them.  Hopefully
> I
> > can complete the project before we conceive.
> > Also, since we just moved to the Des Moines, Iowa
> area
> > from the Quad Cities area of Iowa/Illinois, I've
> been
> > looking for a place to show my non-commissioned
> work. 
> > I finally found a guy here in Ankeny (the suburb
> we
> > live in) that has a really nice furniture shop
> that
> > will let me put my stuff in his window!  His wife
> is
> > an artist, too (she does oils and watercolors) and
> her
> > work is covering the walls there.  She is a
> fabulous
> > artist, and I look forward to meeting her.
> > I've decided to learn how to blow glass in the
> next
> > couple months.  I would love to be able to make my
> own
> > rhondels, and maybe a globe or two.  It's very
> > exciting, and I hope to have enough in my stained
> > glass account to start buying some good
> > blowing/cooling furnaces.  Are any of you blowers?
> > I'd really like to hear from you to get
> information on
> > setting up workshop, what tools I'll need, good
> > literature, etc.  
> > 
> > Stefanie Brown
> > 
> > =====
> > 
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to:
> glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 


=====


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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 10:31:18 2002
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'Cecily & Ralph Wood'" <cecnralph@comcast.net>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: re mosaics-shiny tape
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:44:40 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

butter the back of tiles with mastic and you can eliminate having to back
them. you can also use a non-transparent glass as the base.

silicone takes a long time to cure. you'd have somehow tack the tiles up so
they wouldn't slide. mastic is designed to stick tiles to vertical surfaces,
so i'd use that. it's white and comes in a tub.

ensure the back of the tile isn't smooth. use fiber paper or mounded kiln
wash, or lightly sandblast the back, to make a rougher or ribbed surface in
order so that they stick better.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecily & Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@comcast.net]
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:17 AM
> To: Bungi Glass
> Subject: re mosaics-shiny tape
> 
> 
> Has any one used what appears to be a silvered tape that you 
> apparently 
> stick to the back of glass?  It's made by one of the foil makers, and 
> comes in silver and gold colors, I think.  It is self stick?  
> Not meant 
> for fusing?
> 
> There's been some talk about making glass tiles - which I've been 
> contemplating, and I wondered if that tape would make a good opaque 
> backing for otherwise transparent tiles.
> 
> And you cannot use clear silicone goop for attaching tiles to 
> a wall? - Cec
> 
> -- 
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************
> 
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 10:47:28 2002
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'Stefanie Brown'" <xcyclone@yahoo.com>, glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: RE: New Projects: Carved Door/New place to show/Blowing
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:29:45 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

there's a blowing shop here in cave creek, az that is selling an entire shop
of hot glass at a discount from new prices.

http://redhotglass.com has their contact information. 

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefanie Brown [mailto:xcyclone@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 9:57 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: New Projects: Carved Door/New place to show/Blowing
> 
> 
> Well, until I DO get pregnant, I am currently working
> on a door that I found at an auction.  It's carved in
> an eastlake style, and I've just finished the design
> for it.  I found cheap rhondels at Blenko, Alpine
> glass has the next best prices on them.  Hopefully I
> can complete the project before we conceive.
> Also, since we just moved to the Des Moines, Iowa area
> from the Quad Cities area of Iowa/Illinois, I've been
> looking for a place to show my non-commissioned work. 
> I finally found a guy here in Ankeny (the suburb we
> live in) that has a really nice furniture shop that
> will let me put my stuff in his window!  His wife is
> an artist, too (she does oils and watercolors) and her
> work is covering the walls there.  She is a fabulous
> artist, and I look forward to meeting her.
> I've decided to learn how to blow glass in the next
> couple months.  I would love to be able to make my own
> rhondels, and maybe a globe or two.  It's very
> exciting, and I hope to have enough in my stained
> glass account to start buying some good
> blowing/cooling furnaces.  Are any of you blowers?
> I'd really like to hear from you to get information on
> setting up workshop, what tools I'll need, good
> literature, etc.  
> 
> Stefanie Brown
> 
> =====
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 11:22:24 2002
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Subject: Re: re mosaics-shiny tape
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:46:55 EDT
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I would be interested in the responses to this question as well.  I purchased 
some of this tape and was going to use it when I made a glass mosaic stepping 
stone recently.  The clerk at the glass store said it is good to use on the 
back of non-opaque glass - as it brightens it up quite a bit and brings out 
the color.  My concern was - in time will the adhesive that sticks to the 
glass break down - causing pieces of the glass to come loose from the stone.  

Please send me any responses to this question as well.

Thanks
Loretta

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#8000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">I would be interested in the responses to this question as well. &nbsp;I purchased some of this tape and was going to use it when I made a glass mosaic stepping stone recently. &nbsp;The clerk at the glass store said it is good to use on the back of non-opaque glass - as it brightens it up quite a bit and brings out the color. &nbsp;My concern was - in time will the adhesive that sticks to the glass break down - causing pieces of the glass to come loose from the stone. &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>Please send me any responses to this question as well.
<BR>
<BR>Thanks
<BR>Loretta</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 11:54:33 2002
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'Roxie1824@aol.com'" <Roxie1824@aol.com>, cecnralph@comcast.net,
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: RE: re mosaics-shiny tape
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 11:38:43 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

spectrum now has mirrored glass. you can buy it already like this from your
distributor.

http://www.spectrumglass.com/Pages/SilverCoatSampSet.html

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

-----Original Message-----
From: Roxie1824@aol.com [mailto:Roxie1824@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:47 AM
To: cecnralph@comcast.net; glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: re mosaics-shiny tape


I would be interested in the responses to this question as well.  I
purchased some of this tape and was going to use it when I made a glass
mosaic stepping stone recently.  The clerk at the glass store said it is
good to use on the back of non-opaque glass - as it brightens it up quite a
bit and brings out the color.  My concern was - in time will the adhesive
that sticks to the glass break down - causing pieces of the glass to come
loose from the stone.   

Please send me any responses to this question as well. 

Thanks 
Loretta 
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 12:08:45 2002
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X-Path: sandblaze.com!slandon
From: "Sherry Landon" <slandon@sandblaze.com>
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Subject: RE: Glenna's wonderful dragons
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:28:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@sandblaze.com>
Precedence: bulk

Good afternoon,

Thank you for your inquiry. Unfortunately, we no longer carry those lead
castings. They are made by a company called Monster Metals and outside
of Delphi, I don't know who would carry them but, they should be pretty
easy to find doing a web search.

To the group:

Above is the response I received from Delphi attempting to locate the dragon
casting that Glenna used / and posted on her site.  I have friends who are
still very much "into" the Dungeons and Dragons game of the '80's, and I
think I could sell a bunch of these to them.  Being currently unemployed,
would boost my bank account quickly while I ramp up once again -- help!

I did locate them on the Warner site, but they are not the same style as
Glenna's, and are only 4.5", pretty small -- Glenna, yours "appeared" much
larger?!  Am I mistaken?

If anyone knows where I can locate larger cast dragons I would be very
appreciative.

Sherry
Sherry Leavitt
The Enchanted Glassworks
~Artistry in Stained Glass~
Tel: 603-434-1334
sleavitt@sandblaze.com



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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 12:56:38 2002
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X-Path: Corpit.com!dterrill
From: Dan Terrill <dterrill@Corpit.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: re: Glenna's wonderful dragons
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 15:03:41 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@Corpit.com>
Precedence: bulk

Didn't Warner buy Monster Metals? I know they had a huge 
selection of 'em at Glass Visions. You might call them and 
describe what you're looking for -- they're pretty helpful there...

-----Original Message-----
From: Sherry Landon [mailto:slandon@sandblaze.com]

If anyone knows where I can locate larger cast dragons I 
would be very
appreciative.
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 14:31:09 2002
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Stephen Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
Subject: Re: re mosaics-shiny tape
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 22:18:36 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Yes, you can use
>
> clear silicone goop for attaching tiles to a wall
>
But it will show what ever colour the wall is/ was through the light 
parts of the tile.  On the other hand if you insist in using opaque 
colours, so that you have a flat ceramic tile appearance, you can use 
any adhesive in any effective manner you wish.

It seems to me that the real difference between glass and ceramic tiles 
is that the light can penetrate to the back of the cathedral or wispy 
glass tile and give a completely different depth and appearance.  The 
light does not simply reflect back from the surface, it penetrates and 
reflects from the depth of the tile.
Steve

-- 

Stephen Richard, Verrier
"Glass on Parade"
Glasgow, Scotland
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 16:13:10 2002
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_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 17:10:24 2002
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Monster Metal Castings
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:51:58 PDT
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Precedence: bulk

I found them on a website at:
http://www.warner-criv.com/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=30

Also at:
http://www.stainedglassdirect.com/kits.html


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 17:48:04 2002
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Subject: BUNGI: general question
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 20:22:33 EDT
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What's the difference between mastic....thinset.... and mortar????

Cinda



butter the back of tiles with mastic and you can eliminate having to back
them. you can also use a non-transparent glass as the base.

silicone takes a long time to cure. you'd have somehow tack the tiles up so
they wouldn't slide. mastic is designed to stick tiles to vertical surfaces,
so i'd use that. it's white and comes in a tub.

ensure the back of the tile isn't smooth. use fiber paper or mounded kiln
wash, or lightly sandblast the back, to make a rougher or ribbed surface in
order so that they stick better.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecily & Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@comcast.net]
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:17 AM
> To: Bungi Glass
> Subject: re mosaics-shiny tape
> 
> 
> Has any one used what appears to be a silvered tape that you 
> apparently 
> stick to the back of glass?  It's made by one of the foil makers, and 
> comes in silver and gold colors, I think.  It is self stick?  
> Not meant 
> for fusing?
> 
> There's been some talk about making glass tiles - which I've been 
> contemplating, and I wondered if that tape would make a good opaque 
> backing for otherwise transparent tiles.
> 
> And you cannot use clear silicone goop for attaching tiles to 
> a wall? - Cec
> 


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">What's the difference between mastic....thinset.... and mortar????<BR>
<BR>
Cinda<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
butter the back of tiles with mastic and you can eliminate having to back<BR>
them. you can also use a non-transparent glass as the base.<BR>
<BR>
silicone takes a long time to cure. you'd have somehow tack the tiles up so<BR>
they wouldn't slide. mastic is designed to stick tiles to vertical surfaces,<BR>
so i'd use that. it's white and comes in a tub.<BR>
<BR>
ensure the back of the tile isn't smooth. use fiber paper or mounded kiln<BR>
wash, or lightly sandblast the back, to make a rougher or ribbed surface in<BR>
order so that they stick better.<BR>
<BR>
regards,<BR>
charlie<BR>
cave creek, az<BR>
<BR>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>
&gt; From: Cecily &amp; Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@comcast.net]<BR>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:17 AM<BR>
&gt; To: Bungi Glass<BR>
&gt; Subject: re mosaics-shiny tape<BR>
&gt; <BR>
&gt; <BR>
&gt; Has any one used what appears to be a silvered tape that you <BR>
&gt; apparently <BR>
&gt; stick to the back of glass?&nbsp; It's made by one of the foil makers, and <BR>
&gt; comes in silver and gold colors, I think.&nbsp; It is self stick?&nbsp; <BR>
&gt; Not meant <BR>
&gt; for fusing?<BR>
&gt; <BR>
&gt; There's been some talk about making glass tiles - which I've been <BR>
&gt; contemplating, and I wondered if that tape would make a good opaque <BR>
&gt; backing for otherwise transparent tiles.<BR>
&gt; <BR>
&gt; And you cannot use clear silicone goop for attaching tiles to <BR>
&gt; a wall? - Cec<BR>
&gt; <BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 18:21:35 2002
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X-Path: hotmail.com!dancer1476
From: "Dancer" <dancer1476@hotmail.com>
To: "Dan Terrill" <dterrill@Corpit.com>,
Subject: Re: Glenna's wonderful dragons
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:13:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@hotmail.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@Corpit.com>>
Precedence: bulk

W-Crivellaro did buy Monster Metals and the castings have greatly improved
since they took over. You can to to their web page, or go to the
http://www.monstermetals.com monster metals web page. I know that the MM web
page has all the sizes of the dragons. Some of them are pretty large.
Couldn't see Glenna's dragon so I don't know which dragon you're referring
to. Elaine

  From: Sherry Landon [mailto:slandon@sandblaze.com]

  If anyone knows where I can locate larger cast dragons I
  would be very
  appreciative.
  ----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 19:48:32 2002
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X-Path: ptdprolog.net!suzi1025
From: suzanne albright <suzi1025@ptdprolog.net>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: re mosaics-shiny tape
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 22:24:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@ptdprolog.net>
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Precedence: bulk

Yes, Cec, I have used it and it perks up the cathedral glass beautifully.
Yes, it is self stick. No, don't fuse it -- (I tried) and got a nice yucky
strip of gray/black.

Suzanne


on 9/26/02 9:16 AM, Cecily & Ralph Wood at cecnralph@comcast.net wrote:

> Has any one used what appears to be a silvered tape that you apparently
> stick to the back of glass?  It's made by one of the foil makers, and
> comes in silver and gold colors, I think.  It is self stick?  Not meant
> for fusing?
> 
> There's been some talk about making glass tiles - which I've been
> contemplating, and I wondered if that tape would make a good opaque
> backing for otherwise transparent tiles.
> 
> And you cannot use clear silicone goop for attaching tiles to a wall? - Cec

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 26 20:49:11 2002
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Subject: 3-d star nightmare
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hello All
Just finished sending the star patterns out via e-mail.  Several of them =
have bounced back to me for various reasons so if you didn't get them as =
requested, please feel free to e me again, maybe I should just snail =
mail them to who ever wants them.  Some of the addys that came back =
were,  gjr@bungi.com, monte, Frank mizzi, Bob Harper, barbara elmore, =
dancer, tony k, and plummers.  Also some were unable to open theirs so I =
converted them to .gif and resent.  I'm really really sorry if you got =
slammed more than once from me, the address book and my brain got a tad =
confused by the end of the day.  Hopefully, you all got and were able to =
open 3 attachments and received a total of 4 star patterns.  There was =
the additional instruction e-mail too.  If anyone is missing anything, =
let me know and I'll try it again. =20

I think it would have been easier to just send them to the list!  The =
response was great!!! =20

Also want to thank all of you that have helped me out with questions =
since I've joined.  It's great to get answers and opinions from =
everyone.  Thanks so much! =20

Work safe!, Mary

ps, I'm still waiting for the "first born"...did get an offer for =
another husband, but I really need a "wife"! =20

------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C265AB.B09FF080
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello All</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just finished sending the star patterns =
out via=20
e-mail.&nbsp; Several of them have bounced back to me for various =
reasons so if=20
you didn't get them as requested, please feel free to e me again, maybe =
I should=20
just snail mail them to who ever wants them.&nbsp; Some of the addys =
that came=20
back were,&nbsp;<A href=3D"mailto:gjr@bungi.com"> gjr@bungi.com</A>, =
monte, Frank=20
mizzi, Bob Harper, barbara elmore, dancer, tony k, and plummers.&nbsp; =
Also some=20
were unable to open theirs so I converted them to .gif and resent.&nbsp; =
I'm=20
really really sorry if you got slammed more than once from me, the =
address book=20
and my brain got a tad confused by the end of the day.&nbsp; Hopefully, =
you all=20
got and were able to open 3 attachments and received a total of 4 star=20
patterns.&nbsp; There was the additional instruction e-mail too.&nbsp; =
If anyone=20
is missing anything, let me know and I'll try it again.&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think it would have been easier to =
just send them=20
to the list!&nbsp; The response was great!!!&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also want to thank all of you that have =
helped me=20
out with questions since I've joined.&nbsp; It's great to get answers =
and=20
opinions from everyone.&nbsp; Thanks so much!&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Work safe!, Mary</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ps, I'm still waiting for the "first =
born"...did=20
get an offer for another husband, but I really need a "wife"!&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 27 09:08:35 2002
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 08:55:31 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'CINDEL67@aol.com'" <CINDEL67@aol.com>, glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: BUNGI: general question
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 08:43:24 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

mastic is an acrylic material, comes premixed in a tub and is pretty smelly.
it's usually applied with a very small v notch trowel, and is mostly used on
vertical surfaces, except where it will get wet (shower or tub walls for
instance). thinset is another name for mortar, and is type of cement. it's
used for wet conditions and floors, and comes in sacks of dry powder. you
mix in either water or liquid acrylic, depending upon the strength you want
it to have, to make the cement.

if you need more info, just browse the tile aisle of home depot.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az
-----Original Message-----
From: CINDEL67@aol.com [mailto:CINDEL67@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:23 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: BUNGI: general question


What's the difference between mastic....thinset.... and mortar????

Cinda



butter the back of tiles with mastic and you can eliminate having to back
them. you can also use a non-transparent glass as the base.

silicone takes a long time to cure. you'd have somehow tack the tiles up so
they wouldn't slide. mastic is designed to stick tiles to vertical surfaces,
so i'd use that. it's white and comes in a tub.

ensure the back of the tile isn't smooth. use fiber paper or mounded kiln
wash, or lightly sandblast the back, to make a rougher or ribbed surface in
order so that they stick better.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecily & Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@comcast.net]
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:17 AM
> To: Bungi Glass
> Subject: re mosaics-shiny tape
> 
> 
> Has any one used what appears to be a silvered tape that you 
> apparently 
> stick to the back of glass?  It's made by one of the foil makers, and 
> comes in silver and gold colors, I think.  It is self stick?  
> Not meant 
> for fusing?
> 
> There's been some talk about making glass tiles - which I've been 
> contemplating, and I wondered if that tape would make a good opaque 
> backing for otherwise transparent tiles.
> 
> And you cannot use clear silicone goop for attaching tiles to 
> a wall? - Cec
> 
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 27 09:47:13 2002
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: thewilliammanncompany.com!kmp
From: "Kristin Prizer" <kmp@thewilliammanncompany.com>
To: <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Fusing Instruction
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:03:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@thewilliammanncompany.com>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hello,
I would like to teach myself how to fuse glass.  Can anyone recommend any
good books on the subject?
Thanks!
kp

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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D500445915-27092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"=20
size=3D2>Hello,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D500445915-27092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua" =
size=3D2>I would=20
like to teach myself how to fuse glass.&nbsp; Can anyone recommend any =
good=20
books on the subject?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D500445915-27092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"=20
size=3D2>Thanks!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D500445915-27092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"=20
size=3D2>kp</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D500445915-27092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 27 12:53:23 2002
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X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio
From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: stars patterns
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:43:03 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stainedglass.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hello MB
I cant email you direct as I cant open your messages to get your proper
email address to reply off bungi.
What format are the patterns in and what program can read them?
The reason I ask is that my computer refuses to download the emails -
perhaps because they are of 3 to 4 megabytes in size!
Regards
Elizabeth

Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 27 13:25:53 2002
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 13:22:05 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: "synergy glass" <seaspray@island.net>
To: "Kristin Prizer" <kmp@thewilliammanncompany.com>, <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01C26627.94543720"
Subject: Re: Fusing Instruction
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 13:12:49 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@island.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@thewilliammanncompany.com>>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Contemporary Warm Glass by Brad Walker.  Also check out =
www.warmglass.com   for good online introduction to techniques and a =
great bulletin board.  You can also purchase the book there.

Carol

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Kristin Prizer=20
  To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM=20
  Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 9:03 AM
  Subject: Fusing Instruction


  Hello,
  I would like to teach myself how to fuse glass.  Can anyone recommend =
any good books on the subject?
  Thanks!
  kp


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Contemporary Warm Glass by Brad Walker.&nbsp; Also check out <A=20
href=3D"http://www.warmglass.com">www.warmglass.com</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; for =
good=20
online introduction to techniques and a great bulletin board.&nbsp; You =
can also=20
purchase the book there.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Carol</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Carol Swann<BR>Synergy Glass &amp; Creative<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.igga.org/synergy">www.igga.org/synergy</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:seaspray@island.net">seaspray@island.net</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dkmp@thewilliammanncompany.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:kmp@thewilliammanncompany.com">Kristin Prizer</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3DGLASS@BUNGI.COM=20
  href=3D"mailto:GLASS@BUNGI.COM">GLASS@BUNGI.COM</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 27, =
2002 9:03=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Fusing =
Instruction</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D500445915-27092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"=20
  size=3D2>Hello,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D500445915-27092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua" =
size=3D2>I would=20
  like to teach myself how to fuse glass.&nbsp; Can anyone recommend any =
good=20
  books on the subject?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D500445915-27092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"=20
  size=3D2>Thanks!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D500445915-27092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"=20
  size=3D2>kp</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D500445915-27092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 27 14:29:02 2002
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 14:01:15 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Stephen Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Kristin Prizer <kmp@thewilliammanncompany.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed
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Subject: Re: Fusing Instruction
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 21:54:18 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@thewilliammanncompany.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Brad Walker's book, Contemporary Warm Glass, is one of the best around.=20
Get it from the website www.warmglass.com

Steve
In message <1970Jan1.000.0@thewilliammanncompany.com>, Kristin Prizer=20
<kmp@thewilliammanncompany.com> writes
>Hello,
>I would like to teach myself how to fuse glass.=A0 Can anyone recommend
>any good books on the subject?
>Thanks!
>kp
>=A0

--=20

Stephen Richard, Verrier
"Glass on Parade"
Glasgow, Scotland
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 27 15:00:33 2002
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X-Path: look.ca!mfig
From: "Mikey Figgy" <mfig@look.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: fusing info at Fantasy In Glass
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 17:52:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@look.ca>
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or print out a copy of my fusing paper at our website...
www.fantasyinglass.com - Fantasy In Glass, Canada's first and still only =
officially sanctioned stained glass supplier, at 703 The Queensway, =
Toronto, ON, M8Y 1L2 Tel:(416)252-6868/Toll free: 1-800-841-5758

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>or print out a copy of my fusing paper at our=20
website...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><A=20
href=3D"http://www.fantasyinglass.com">www.fantasyinglass.com</A> - =
Fantasy In=20
Glass, Canada's first and still only officially sanctioned stained glass =

supplier, at 703 The Queensway, Toronto, ON, M8Y 1L2 =
Tel:(416)252-6868/Toll=20
free: 1-800-841-5758</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 27 15:31:13 2002
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: "Kristin Prizer" <kmp@thewilliammanncompany.com>, <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Re: Fusing Instruction
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 15:07:23 PDT
Message-ID: <m17v3H4-0000FkC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk


> I would like to teach myself how to fuse glass.  Can anyone recommend any
> good books on the subject?
> Thanks!
> kp

Aloha

I like Boyce Lundstrom's, personally....good pics and easy to read.
:^)



-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 27 16:30:13 2002
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: "Kristin Prizer" <kmp@thewilliammanncompany.com>, <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Re: Fusing Instruction
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 15:07:23 PDT
Message-ID: <m17v3H4-0000FkC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk


> I would like to teach myself how to fuse glass.  Can anyone recommend any
> good books on the subject?
> Thanks!
> kp

Aloha

I like Boyce Lundstrom's, personally....good pics and easy to read.
:^)



-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 28 01:28:53 2002
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X-Path: northlights.co.uk!toby
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: "Glenna Rand" <gjr@bungi.com>,
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Subject: Re: Fusing Instruction
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 09:10:13 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@northlights.co.uk>
References: <<m17v3H4-0000FkC@daver.bungi.com>>
Precedence: bulk


Hello Glenna, again  ;-)
The best instruction in fusing glass comes from Brad Walker
Visit his site at http://warmglass.com
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


>
> > I would like to teach myself how to fuse glass.  Can anyone recommend
any
> > good books on the subject?
> > Thanks!
> > kp
>
> Aloha
>
> I like Boyce Lundstrom's, personally....good pics and easy to read.
> :^)
>
>
>
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Sat Sep 28 10:17:16 2002
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, 
Subject: Re: Fusing Instruction
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 08:45:25 PDT
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[In the message entitled "Re: Fusing Instruction" on Sep 28,  9:10, "Toby" writes:]


> The best instruction in fusing glass comes from Brad Walker
> Visit his site at http://warmglass.com

Oh yeah,how could I forget!!!!..His book is very good too!  
Glenna

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 28 17:22:33 2002
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For more information.
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 29 07:50:10 2002
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From: jtoney@kanokla.net (Jimmie G. Toney)
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I am thinking of a glass saw. What is everyone's thought on them? Which =
one do you recommend? How often do you use it? When and where do you use =
it?

Thanks=20

Jimmie Toney
jtone@kanokla.net




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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I am thinking of a glass saw. What is everyone's =
thought on=20
them? Which one do you recommend? How often do you use it? When and =
where do you=20
use it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Jimmie Toney</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:jtone@kanokla.net">jtone@kanokla.net</A></FONT></DIV>
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 29 09:56:23 2002
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From: Dan Terrill <dterrill@Corpit.com>
To: "'StainedGlassArts@yahoogroups.com'"
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Subject: pool-table lamps
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 12:26:08 -0400
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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Anyone know where I could get a pattern and/or form for a pool table lamp?
 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Our chief weapon is surprise .... surprise and fear .... fear and surprise
.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise .... and ruthless efficiency ....
Our three weapons are fear, surprise and ruthless efficiency .... and an
almost fanatical devotion to the Pope .... Our four .... no .... Amongst our
weapons .... Amongst our weaponry .... are such elements as fear, surprise
.... I'll come in again."
 

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<DIV><SPAN class=955523716-29092002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyone know where I 
could get a pattern and/or form for a pool table lamp?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial 
size=2>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>"Our chief weapon is surprise .... surprise and fear .... fear and surprise 
.... Our <B>two</B> weapons are fear and surprise .... and ruthless efficiency 
.... Our <B>three</B> weapons are fear, surprise and ruthless efficiency .... 
and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope .... Our <B>four</B> .... no .... 
<B>Amongst</B> our weapons .... Amongst our weaponry .... are such elements as 
fear, surprise .... I'll come in again."</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 29 14:15:26 2002
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Subject: Re: Stain Glass Saws
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 16:41:45 EDT
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I've had a Diamond Tech 1000 for many years. It's great on those rare 
occassions when I need a tough cut or have beening having way too much 
trouble cutting a particular type glass by hand.

The key words here are "rare occassion". The saw is not used much. Unless you 
have money burning a whole in your pocket and already have a good grinder and 
cutter..... I'd recommend not buying one.

I'm a tool junkie, so I got the first once I saw on sale. I don't regret the 
purchase, just would not recommend buying one. They just have so little 
usefullness.

Why do you feel you need one?

Cheryl in NJ



In a message dated 9/29/02 10:51:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
jtoney@kanokla.net writes:

>  am thinking of a glass saw. What is everyone's thought on them? Which one 
do 
> you recommend? How often do you use it? When and where do you use it?
>  
>  Thanks 
>  
>  Jimmie Toney
>  jtone@kanokla.net
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 29 15:51:38 2002
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From: S Clayman <the1glassman@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Stain Glass Saws
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 15:12:14 -0700 (PDT)
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I work in a glass studio and use the Taurus at work.
When I went to set up my studio at home I purchased
the Taurus II. I love it. The customer service people
at the manufacture are great if you ever have any
questions. The trick to the saw is to use it as
prescribed and not to puch too hard on it, ie let the
blade do the work not you doing the work by pushing
hard.

Stuart

--- "Jimmie G. Toney" <jtoney@kanokla.net> wrote:
> I am thinking of a glass saw. What is everyone's
> thought on them? Which one do you recommend? How
> often do you use it? When and where do you use it?
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Jimmie Toney
> jtone@kanokla.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 29 17:23:48 2002
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I bought a "Speedster" glass saw - one of the cheapest ones out there.  I=
 agree that a saw isn't a tool you'll use much, but have found it invalua=
ble on the occasions when I have deep curvy cuts to make, or sharp angled=
 cuts that would be difficult, or impossible to do by hand.  The more exp=
ensive saws are probably better quality.  I find I have to check the alig=
nment of the blade often.  If it gets slightly out of whack, it causes th=
e glass to break where I don't want it to.  But it's easy enough to adjus=
t.  I've heard people say that they also like having a band saw when they=
 have many identical pieces to cut, as the saw can cut through multiple l=
ayers of glass at once, but have never had the occasion to try this.
Nancy Saucier
BeauSoleil
Picayune Mississi[[i

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>I bought a "Sp=
eedster" glass saw - one of the cheapest ones out there.&nbsp; I agree th=
at a saw isn't a tool you'll use much, but have found it invaluable on th=
e occasions when I have deep curvy cuts to make, or sharp angled cuts tha=
t would be difficult, or impossible to do by hand.&nbsp; The more expensi=
ve saws are probably better quality.&nbsp; I find I have to check the ali=
gnment of the blade often.&nbsp; If it gets slightly out of whack, it cau=
ses the glass to break where I don't want it to.&nbsp; But it's easy enou=
gh to adjust.&nbsp; I've heard people say that they also like having a ba=
nd saw when they have many identical pieces to cut, as the saw can cut th=
rough multiple layers of glass at once, but have never had the occasion t=
o try this.</DIV> <DIV>Nancy Saucier</DIV> <DIV>BeauSoleil</DIV> <DIV>Pic=
ayune Mississi[[i<BR><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 29 18:24:37 2002
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From: "Moya O'Neal" <moya.oneal@verizon.net>
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I agree with Cheryl,

I've had a Diamond Tech 1000 for many years. It's great on those rare=20
occassions when I need a tough cut or have beening having way too much=20
trouble cutting a particular type glass by hand.
=20
The key words here are "rare occassion". The saw is not used much. =
Unless you=20
have money burning a whole in your pocket and already have a good =
grinder and=20
cutter..... I'd recommend not buying one.

I'm a tool junkie, so I got the first once I saw on sale. I don't regret =
the=20
purchase, just would not recommend buying one. They just have so little=20
usefullness.

Why do you feel you need one?

Cheryl in NJ

I have a Taurus Ring saw and love it, but seldom use it unless I want to =
miter corners for a box or candle holder, etc.  It is great for a =
beveled cut.
Moya


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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I agree with&nbsp;Cheryl,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I've had a Diamond Tech 1000 for many years. It's great on those =
rare=20
<BR>occassions when I need a tough cut or have beening having way too =
much=20
<BR>trouble cutting a particular type glass by hand.<BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial>&nbsp;</FONT><BR>The key words here are "rare occassion". =
The saw is=20
not used much. Unless you <BR>have money burning a whole in your pocket =
and=20
already have a good grinder and <BR>cutter..... I'd recommend not buying =

one.<BR><BR>I'm a tool junkie, so I got the first once I saw on sale. I =
don't=20
regret the <BR>purchase, just would not recommend buying one. They just =
have so=20
little <BR>usefullness.<BR><BR>Why do you feel you need =
one?<BR><BR>Cheryl in=20
NJ<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I have a Taurus Ring saw and love it, but seldom =
use it=20
unless I want to miter corners for a box or candle holder, etc.&nbsp; It =
is=20
great for a beveled cut.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Moya</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 29 18:56:57 2002
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From: "tl sanders" <glasshut@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Lead Concerns
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:47:44 +0000
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I know the subject of lead and our health has recently been discussed, but I 
was wondering if anyone thinks about the concerns for the people that buy 
our glass....  I mean what is our liability for informing the our customers 
that the items we sell contain lead.  Maybe it is not a concern due to the 
small amount of contact they might have with the glass item.  I asked this 
question to a shop where I took a class recently and they did not seem to 
concerned, actually they scoffed at the idea like I was a nut.  But being 
new to stained glass, I wonder about that.

I was at a craft show recently where there was a lot of stained glass on 
display and the people were milling around picking stuff up, turning it over 
and then picking up another piece, etc...meanwhile they are munching on 
nachos, hotdogs, sodas etc.  Am I being too paranoid?

Thanks,

Tricia



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From owner-glass Sun Sep 29 21:30:39 2002
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Trish,
No, you certainly are not being paranoid.  I feel we have an obligation =
to inform those who are shopping for our items and those who buy our =
products of the risk of lead contamination.  Yes, most people should be =
aware of the risk, but we cannot determine that just by looking.  Err on =
the safe side and give a quick warning.
Moya

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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Trish,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>No, you certainly are not being paranoid.&nbsp; =
I feel we=20
have an obligation to inform those who are shopping for our items and =
those who=20
buy our products of the risk of lead contamination.&nbsp; Yes, most =
people=20
should be aware of the risk, but we cannot determine that just by =
looking.&nbsp;=20
Err on the safe side and give a quick warning.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Moya</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 30 05:26:40 2002
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
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Subject: Re: Lead Concerns
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:12:01 -0400
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Organization: Grendel Studio
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I have a small handout for people who purchase glass, telling about the 
care and feeding of their object, and if there is lead used in it, I 
warn about unnecessary handling and not letting children play with it. 
 There is a nice booklet available from the Stained Glass Association, 
costing about $5, (not published by them but I don't have the info up 
stairs with me) which is an "owners manual" and appropriate for 
purchases of substantial works which warns them that after 75 to 100 
years, the work may need some restoration work.

tl sanders glasshut@hotmail.com [bungier/Bungier] wrote:

> I know the subject of lead and our health has recently been discussed, 
> but I was wondering if anyone thinks about the concerns for the people 
> that buy our glass....  I mean what is our liability for informing the 
> our customers that the items we sell contain lead.  Maybe it is not a 
> concern due to the small amount of contact they might have with the 
> glass item.  I asked this question to a shop where I took a class 
> recently and they did not seem to concerned, actually they scoffed at 
> the idea like I was a nut.  But being new to stained glass, I wonder 
> about that.
>
> I was at a craft show recently where there was a lot of stained glass 
> on display and the people were milling around picking stuff up, 
> turning it over and then picking up another piece, etc...meanwhile 
> they are munching on nachos, hotdogs, sodas etc.  Am I being too paranoid?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tricia
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 30 05:38:41 2002
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: pool-table lamps
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:14:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>
References: <<823370702.1033319224416.JavaMail.root@monkey>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

There is a pool table pattern in at least one of the common lamp pattern 
books.  I've seen the pattern, but do not have that book, so cannot help 
you further. - Cec

Dan Terrill dterrill@Corpit.com [bungier/Bungier] wrote:

> Anyone know where I could get a pattern and/or form for a pool table lamp?
>  
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> "Our chief weapon is surprise .... surprise and fear .... fear and 
> surprise .... Our *two* weapons are fear and surprise .... and 
> ruthless efficiency .... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise and 
> ruthless efficiency .... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope 
> .... Our *four* .... no .... *Amongst* our weapons .... Amongst our 
> weaponry .... are such elements as fear, surprise .... I'll come in 
> again."
>  


-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 30 05:57:54 2002
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Stain Glass Saws
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:28:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>
References: <<1862833542.1033311474105.JavaMail.root@monkey>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

There are two schools of thought on saws.  People who specialize mostly 
in lead came think they are not necessary.  People who work mostly in 
foil, or in 3-D objects, find them useful for limited things, as noted 
in the other replies.  Most good glass people will tell you that they 
are not for everyday use.  For one thing, it takes more time to cut with 
the saw than by hand.

I am also an equipment junkie, and I have 3 saws: 1) a chop saw for 
zinc/brass came, and for wood framing, 2) a Diamond Tech Laser 3000 
(used) band saw for those odd cuts, or for very textured glass, and 3) a 
Taurus II Ring Saw.  This was my first saw, cheaper than a band saw and 
more versatile, although it makes a rougher cut than the band saw.  I 
have discovered I use it for more tightly curved things than the band 
saw, and I use it a lot for the tiny curved areas when grinding, instead 
of changing the head on the grinder to the smaller ones.

However a grinder is more useful than the saws, and it is no  substitute 
for learning to cut well. - Cec

jtoney@kanokla.net (Jimmie G. Toney) [bungier/Bungier] wrote:

> I am thinking of a glass saw. What is everyone's thought on them? 
> Which one do you recommend? How often do you use it? When and where do 
> you use it?
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Jimmie Toney
> jtone@kanokla.net <mailto:jtone@kanokla.net>
>  
>  
>  
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/20/2002


-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 30 09:13:31 2002
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From: Touchstainedglss@aol.com
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Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_30.2d987e18.2ac9be98_boundary"
Subject: Re: Stain Glass Saws
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:50:00 EDT
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--part1_30.2d987e18.2ac9be98_boundary
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Stuart,

I too, have a Taurus II and it is helpful on some projects. 

Just be careful and check the grommets, and do maintenance because I thought 
I could go a little longer and the saw blade snapped and drove the saw blade 
though my thumb. Luckily my daughter was home to take me to the emergercy 
room and have the doctor pull the blade out. No damage to the thumb, just 
inconvenient while healing.

Jaci 


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Stuart,<BR>
<BR>
I too, have a Taurus II and it is helpful on some projects. <BR>
<BR>
<B>Just be careful and check the grommets</B>, <B>and do maintenance</B> because I thought I could go a little longer and the saw blade snapped and drove the saw blade though my thumb. Luckily my daughter was home to take me to the emergercy room and have the doctor pull the blade out. No damage to the thumb, just inconvenient while healing.<BR>
<BR>
Jaci <BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 30 10:47:45 2002
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From: Dan Terrill <dterrill@Corpit.com>
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Subject: RE: Stain Glass Saws
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:55:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@Corpit.com>
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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Through your thumb??? Guess that "cuts everything but your fingers" claim
doesn't count when the blade breaks, eh? Thanks for the heads-up

-----Original Message-----

Stuart,

I too, have a Taurus II and it is helpful on some projects. 

Just be careful and check the grommets, and do maintenance because I thought
I could go a little longer and the saw blade snapped and drove the saw blade
though my thumb. Luckily my daughter was home to take me to the emergercy
room and have the doctor pull the blade out. No damage to the thumb, just
inconvenient while healing.

Jaci 




------_=_NextPart_001_01C268A2.25FA0C50
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	charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
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<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=432420517-30092002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Through your thumb??? Guess that "cuts everything but your fingers" claim 
doesn't count when the blade breaks, eh? Thanks for the 
heads-up</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR></FONT></DIV><FONT 
  face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 
  FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Stuart,<BR><BR>I too, have a Taurus II and it is helpful on 
  some projects. <BR><BR><B>Just be careful and check the grommets</B>, <B>and 
  do maintenance</B> because I thought I could go a little longer and the saw 
  blade snapped and drove the saw blade though my thumb. Luckily my daughter was 
  home to take me to the emergercy room and have the doctor pull the blade out. 
  No damage to the thumb, just inconvenient while healing.<BR><BR>Jaci 
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 30 12:54:03 2002
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X-Path: yahoo.com!the1glassman
From: S Clayman <the1glassman@yahoo.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: Stain Glass Saws
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:19:23 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>>
Precedence: bulk

I remember in my life saving days.. ie when I was
taking the classes we learned the phrase.. row, throw
and then go... ie if someone is in trouble... row to
them,, if you can't row to them, then you throw
something to them (or extend something), and then if
all else fails then you go to them...

With glass, and I do a lot of fusing...

The phrase is cut, grind, grind again, then saw.

I agree with everyone else that you need to use the
saw as last resort, but hey,, what would a heart be
without the inside cut up top?

__________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 30 13:16:07 2002
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From: S Clayman <the1glassman@yahoo.com>
To: Touchstainedglss@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: Stain Glass Saws
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:22:23 -0700 (PDT)
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References: <<30.2d987e18.2ac9be98@aol.com>>
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Jaci, glad you are alright. Yes I agree, changing the
grommets are important. They said to change then every
other time you change the blade, but I check then
everytime I open it up. I also like the little yellow
hole filer at top because it keeps glass off the red
ones and also tells me if I am pushing too hard.

Stuart

--- Touchstainedglss@aol.com wrote:
> Stuart,
> 
> I too, have a Taurus II and it is helpful on some
> projects. 
> 
> Just be careful and check the grommets, and do
> maintenance because I thought 
> I could go a little longer and the saw blade snapped
> and drove the saw blade 
> though my thumb. Luckily my daughter was home to
> take me to the emergercy 
> room and have the doctor pull the blade out. No
> damage to the thumb, just 
> inconvenient while healing.
> 
> Jaci 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 30 14:29:13 2002
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:52:11 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: sandblaze.com!slandon
From: "Sherry Landon" <slandon@sandblaze.com>
To: "Cecily & Ralph Wood" <cecnralph@comcast.net>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Subject: Re: pool-table lamps
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:33:27 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@sandblaze.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>>
Precedence: bulk

There is one in the Wardell Publication, More Lampshade Patterns II.  It's
not terribly "jazzy" but might give you a good template to get creative.
Good luck!

Sherry
The Enchanted Glassworks

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cecily & Ralph Wood" <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: "Bungi Glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: pool-table lamps


> There is a pool table pattern in at least one of the common lamp pattern
> books.  I've seen the pattern, but do not have that book, so cannot help
> you further. - Cec
>
> Dan Terrill dterrill@Corpit.com [bungier/Bungier] wrote:
>
> > Anyone know where I could get a pattern and/or form for a pool table
lamp?
> >
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > "Our chief weapon is surprise .... surprise and fear .... fear and
> > surprise .... Our *two* weapons are fear and surprise .... and
> > ruthless efficiency .... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise and
> > ruthless efficiency .... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope
> > .... Our *four* .... no .... *Amongst* our weapons .... Amongst our
> > weaponry .... are such elements as fear, surprise .... I'll come in
> > again."
> >
>
>
> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 30 15:02:29 2002
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From: "Lee Clark" <laclark@unm.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====_103342045121320=_"
Subject: Stained glass as a profession
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:14:11 -0600
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--=====_103342045121320=_
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Hello,
   I'm new to this, so this is just to satisfy my curiosity.  What is it=
 like to be a professional stained glass artist?  Is it very competitive?=
  Hard/easy to sell your product?  Is it lucrative?

Thanks
Lee


--=====_103342045121320=_
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<BODY style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial" text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm new to this, so this is just to satisfy my 
curiosity.&nbsp; What is it like to be&nbsp;a professional stained glass 
artist?&nbsp; Is it very competitive?&nbsp; Hard/easy to sell your 
product?&nbsp; Is it lucrative?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Lee</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>


--=====_103342045121320=_--


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 30 18:18:08 2002
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #537 built 2002-Apr-28)
X-Path: doorpi.net!mmam5
From: "Marci" <mmam5@doorpi.net>
To: "Cecily & Ralph Wood" <cecnralph@comcast.net>,
Mime-Version: 1.0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Subject: Re: Stain Glass Saws
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 19:15:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@doorpi.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@comcast.net>>
Precedence: bulk

I too use a few different saws -  my husband has some nice saws for cutting
zinc and lead came and I have the graphon saw - it's great for smaller
inside cuts and the 90 degree stuff, but Cec is correct - - nothing beats
learning how to cut well - - it's faster, more efficient (time wise) and is
a thrill when you master those really coool cuts!

Marci


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cecily & Ralph Wood" <cecnralph@comcast.net>
To: "Bungi Glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: Stain Glass Saws


> There are two schools of thought on saws.  People who specialize mostly
> in lead came think they are not necessary.  People who work mostly in
> foil, or in 3-D objects, find them useful for limited things, as noted
> in the other replies.  Most good glass people will tell you that they
> are not for everyday use.  For one thing, it takes more time to cut with
> the saw than by hand.
>
> I am also an equipment junkie, and I have 3 saws: 1) a chop saw for
> zinc/brass came, and for wood framing, 2) a Diamond Tech Laser 3000
> (used) band saw for those odd cuts, or for very textured glass, and 3) a
> Taurus II Ring Saw.  This was my first saw, cheaper than a band saw and
> more versatile, although it makes a rougher cut than the band saw.  I
> have discovered I use it for more tightly curved things than the band
> saw, and I use it a lot for the tiny curved areas when grinding, instead
> of changing the head on the grinder to the smaller ones.
>
> However a grinder is more useful than the saws, and it is no  substitute
> for learning to cut well. - Cec
>
> jtoney@kanokla.net (Jimmie G. Toney) [bungier/Bungier] wrote:
>
> > I am thinking of a glass saw. What is everyone's thought on them?
> > Which one do you recommend? How often do you use it? When and where do
> > you use it?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jimmie Toney
> > jtone@kanokla.net <mailto:jtone@kanokla.net>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/20/2002
>
>
> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 30 18:32:10 2002
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From: "Marci" <mmam5@doorpi.net>
To: "S Clayman" <the1glassman@yahoo.com>, "Bungi Glass" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Stain Glass Saws
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 19:49:37 -0500
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>
Precedence: bulk

> I agree with everyone else that you need to use the
> saw as last resort, but hey,, what would a heart be
> without the inside cut up top?
> 


TWO PIECES!!!  :))
(sorry - - just couldn't resist!!)



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