From owner-glass Thu Nov  1 02:14:48 2001
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Nicole Beilke <nicole_beilke@hotmail.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Purchasing Glass
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 00:50:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@hotmail.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

I assume you are a hobbiest at this point, and not doing this full time.  If
you live anywere near a supply shop, in the beginning you will greatly benefit
from going there to choose glass,  If there's more than one shop, hit them
all.  Each shop owner is attracted to different types of glass and different
color choices and ranges.  Most shops also sell scraps, and that is a
wonderfully cheap way of picking up small pieces of interesting glass that can
be used as accents.  Just pick up ones that appeal to you.

Later, with experience you will be able to look at a piece of glass and not
only know who probably made it, but the name or catalog number of that glass.
When you've reached that stage, then you'll do well ordering glass unseen.  If
you are not lucky enough to live near any shops, then I suggest you buy the
glass that is deliberately chosen by the supplier to be an assortment of nice
glass in a rainbow of colors, and which lend themselves to many projects.  You
may not get anything really thrilling that way, but what you will get is
usually very nice and usable glass.  And more and more glass manufacturers have
created viewable images of glass samples, which you can see on their web sites,
and now some of the suppliers that do web business also show these color
samples in their online catalogs.

At the beginning, you will want to overbuy the amount of glass for any given
project, because your cutting skills haven't yet developed, so you've allowed
some for breakage.  Buy glass per project - and you may have more than one
project going at one time.  But if you see a piece of glass that is just simply
stunning - but you don't have a project in mind - go aheard and get it.  With
the machine-made glass - the stock plain colors, or the wispy ones, etc. they
will all pretty much be alike.  But with the "art" glass, which is a mixture of
several colors, no two piece of glass will ever be alike.  If you hit one that
is super - buy it.

Another thing to keep in mind is the cuttability of the glass.  Transparent
glass is far easier to cut than the "art" glass.  Any glass using the
"opalized" or what you may well call milk glass, is far more difficult to cut.
Any glass that is textured is harder to cut than non textured.  And the "art"
glass will pose a greater problem.  Also, the darker the glass gets, generally,
the more difficult to cut.  So if you are gearing up to make a bunch of
Xmas/Hanukah presents, choose easy cutting glass in the beginning, or a project
that only uses small amounts of "art" glass.

One thing to keep in mind is that ANY glass has some subtle
texture/pattern/grain and you must take this into consideration when laying
your pattern on the glass.  Sometimes it won't make any difference, but quite
often it really DOES make a difference.  As far as possible, I like to lay the
pattern pieces on a piece of glass in pretty much the order they will be in the
finished project - especially with backgrounds.  Sometimes you simply don't
have the amount of glass in order to do that.  In that case - especially when
doing backgrounds, you want to make the textures/pattern/grain run in all
various directions, as randomly as possible.  If you have most in line, and
only a couple out of line, it really shows up and looks bad.

With things like leaves, etc. you will want the grain to run in the direction
of the leaf, not up and down or sideways.  And sometimes you are going to want
to sacrifice a hunk of glass just to get into the middle where one particular
bit is just what you want for something or other.

And even with the machine made glass, there will be a subtle difference in the
sides (top and bottom).  Sometimes you can get away with not paying attention
to that - indeed sometimes you may deliberately use both sides, but for the
most part, choose one side or the other to be the "right" side.

I keep my scraps and I have them sorted into colored baskets - 3 different
sizes of baskets for tiny, medium and large scraps.  When I only need a small
amount of one color, I always check out the scraps first.  As a matter of fact,
I just made a tiny panel with pacan leaves and nuts as an 80th birthday present
for my son-in-law's grandmother, and I did the entire thing out of scraps.
Since glass is an expensive hobby, this really helps keep costs down.

Good luck and have fun! - Cec

Nicole Beilke wrote:

> Hey Everyone, I'm just getting started on working with stained glass and I'm
> wondering how much you would typically pay for glass? Are you able to
> purchase it wholesale? Do you buy it by the box or just the pieces necessary
> for the design you're working on? I'm pretty clueless about how I should go
> about obtaining glass and if I going to end up paying retail and I would
> really appreciate any tips you could give.
> Thanks in advance,
> Nicole
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  1 06:01:55 2001
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: bjs10@cornell.edu
To: Karen Palmer <KPalmer@scjd.state.sc.us>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Broken pieces
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:01:47 -0500 (EST)
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@scjd.state.sc.us>>
Precedence: bulk

Karen,
when do the cracks occur? While soldering?  If so, you are getting the 
glass too hot.  Try soldering a little more quickly and do not stay at 
one place on the glass to long. If the solder does not suit you and the 
glass is very hot.... let it cool before you continue to work in that area.

Barbara

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Karen Palmer wrote:

> It seems that almost every piece I do ends up with a cracked piece of glass.
> I have no idea what I am doing wrong.  The lady I took lessons from showed
> me how to pick up my piece and I am very careful with it.  However, I still
> have those darned cracks far too often.  Anyone have any advice for me?
> 
> Karen
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  1 07:02:13 2001
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Broken pieces
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:14:00 -0700 
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

i had this problem when i started out too. i tried putting a damp towel
underneath the piece to soak up the excess heat. this works ok, but still i
experienced cracking problems.

the only surefired cure is to get better. if you work faster, it doesn't
happen. this problem is caused by heat buildup.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bjs10@cornell.edu [mailto:bjs10@cornell.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 5:02 AM
> To: Karen Palmer
> Subject: Re: Broken pieces
> 
> 
> Karen,
> when do the cracks occur? While soldering?  If so, you are 
> getting the 
> glass too hot.  Try soldering a little more quickly and do 
> not stay at 
> one place on the glass to long. If the solder does not suit 
> you and the 
> glass is very hot.... let it cool before you continue to work 
> in that area.
> 
> Barbara
> 
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Karen Palmer wrote:
> 
> > It seems that almost every piece I do ends up with a 
> cracked piece of glass.
> > I have no idea what I am doing wrong.  The lady I took 
> lessons from showed
> > me how to pick up my piece and I am very careful with it.  
> However, I still
> > have those darned cracks far too often.  Anyone have any 
> advice for me?
> > 
> > Karen
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  1 08:02:38 2001
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Purchasing Glass
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:48:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Nicole Beilke"
>Hey Everyone, I'm just getting started on working with stained glass and=

I'm =

wondering how much you would typically pay for glass? Are you able to =

purchase it wholesale? Do you buy it by the box or just the pieces
necessary =

for the design you're working on? I'm pretty clueless about how I should =
go

about obtaining glass and if I going to end up paying retail and I would =

really appreciate any tips you could give.<

Until you decide to do stained glass full-time and set up a legit busines=
s,
you will have to purchase at retail prices, since you are considered a
hobbiest.  Those of us who are full-time stained glass artists (i.e. we d=
o
this for a living and do not have another "day job") take care to meet th=
e
requirements for purchasing bulk quantities of glass and supplies from
qualified wholesale distributors.  These wholesale distributors have
various qualifications you have to meet before they consider you a seriou=
s
client and will accept your business as a purchasing client.  Usually thi=
s
is something along the lines of proof that you are a business (i.e.
business license, state sales tax & use permit, separate business checkin=
g
account), and proof that you are serious about bulk quantity purchase (i.=
e.
first order must be at least $500 with $300 being in glass purchases). =

Some wholesale distributors also want more proof that you are a retail
establishment, and ask for a photo of your store front (i.e. you don't wo=
rk
out of your basement) and a copy of your Yellow Pages ad.

For those who do qualify for wholesale purchases, you will be buying in
bulk.  No half sheet or quarter sheets.  Full sheets of glass at a time. =

Depending on the manufacturer, this could be between 5 square feet up to =
10
square feet of glass per sheet.  If you are not lucky enough to live near=

one of the distributors, then you will have to have the glass freighted o=
r
UPS'ed in, which involves substantial money.  So we usually tank up a
month's worth of orders in order to purchase a full crate of glass.  This=

is about ?25 - 40? full sheets of glass.

Me?  I know what my best-selling glass is, and usually order 5-10 sheets =
of
it at a time.  For instance, I use a ton of Spectrum clear Artique glass,=

so I usually purchase a full case of it to last me a few months.  For
particular projects, I order one or two full sheets.  Right now I have 1
case of nothing but clear glue chip; 1 case of Spectrum clear Artique and=

Spectrum clear seedy and waterglass; 1 case of mixed color Wissmach (mixe=
d
cathedral and opaque); 1 case of mixed low-end glass (inexpensive Spectru=
m,
Wissmach, Armstrong, GNA, Pilkington, Vasa); and 1 case of high-end glass=

(Youghiogheny and Uroborus, with some Spectrum iridescent and Baroque). =

Plus a full storage shelf of half and quarter sheet sized glass of variou=
s
colors and textures.

Sometimes a couple of professional stained glass studios will go together=

on bulk purchases in order to get a better rate on the freight charges. =

Since I am not near a distributor, I have to pay freight charges.  I
usually combine my orders with Stained Glass Unlimited in The Colony, TX
(about 20 minutes near me) and we split the freight charges.  And if I ne=
ed
just one piece of a particular glass, and they have it, we work out a dea=
l.
 I carry a lot of bevels, so if they have a customer who needs a particul=
ar
bevel they don't stock, and they don't want the have to put together a fu=
ll
order just to get that bevel, they'll send their customer over to me.

So...since you're new, you probably don't qualify for wholesale purchases=

yet.  Patronize your local retail stained glass store, since  now you kno=
w
the things they have to go through in order to supply you with an excelle=
nt
choice of glass and supplies.  Later, when you decide to make the big mov=
e
into professional stained glass work (full-time), you can contact the
wholesale distributors and ask them to send you their qualification sheet=
s.

One of the best things you can do is purchase sample sets from the
manufacturers.  This way you can look at what they make in order to selec=
t
the right glass for your project.  I have sample sets from Spectrum,
Bullseye, Armstrong, Wissmach, Pilkington & Vasa, Carolina Glue Chip,
Youghiogheny, GNA/FNA, Uroborus, and Kokomo.  Good luck with everything.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  1 08:31:47 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Broken pieces
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:48:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Karen Palmer
>It seems that almost every piece I do ends up with a cracked piece of
glass.
I have no idea what I am doing wrong.  The lady I took lessons from showe=
d
me how to pick up my piece and I am very careful with it.  However, I sti=
ll
have those darned cracks far too often.  Anyone have any advice for me?<

We need more information.  At what stage of construction do you notice th=
e
broken pieces?  During foiling?  During soldering?  After framing?  When
you're moving it from a horizontal position to a verticle one?

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  1 09:22:06 2001
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: cracks
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 16:29:58 -0000 
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@bham.ac.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Cracks that appear when heat is applied can come from stress spurs in the
glass created when the glass was cut originally by the person cutting the
piece.
This often occurs when the cutting surface under the glass is too hard and
worse when there is a combination of this and too much cutter pressure when
cutting.
I solved this problem by cutting my glass on a table coated with 0.5mm thick
cartridge paper. Two sheets of a newspaper can be as good. Doing this and
learning better cutter control solved my problems related to this kind of
thing when I first started cutting glass some years ago. Again there is
probably not true of all versions of stained glass but worse a problem with
some manufactures types.

Brandon S.Jones
(UK)
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  1 11:00:57 2001
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X-Path: mindspring.com!boydz
From: boyd <boydz@mindspring.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Purchasing Glass
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:57:43 -0500
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Cecily & Ralph Wood wrote:

> Later, with experience you will be able to look at a piece of glass and not
> only know who probably made it, but the name or catalog number of that glass.
> When you've reached that stage, then you'll do well ordering glass unseen. 

also, most glass manufacturers sell "sample kits" that contain small
"swatches" of each of the colors/styles/textures that they produce. you
can use these "swatches" to choose the glass for your projects and then
see if your local glass shop has those colors in stock or if one of the
on-line glass stores has them available. 

i've found that using the swatches helps me plan my projects and also
get a sense of the "cuttability" (i know that's not a word! :-) of the
glass. for me, it's difficult to get a true sense of the color of the
glass just from a picture in a brochure or on line.

the kits aren't outrageously expensive, so if you get to the point that
you just *have* to have a certain color/texture and/or if you're doing a
lot of projects, it might be something to keep in mind.

have fun!

-boyd

-- 

"History is the lie commonly agreed upon."

	 -- Voltaire

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From owner-glass Thu Nov  1 12:04:58 2001
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From: "Kris" <kristc@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Broken pieces
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 13:18:50 -0500
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Just a small addition to the excellent answers that have come through
here... design problems can also cause cracks. If your piece has a thin,
narrow area, this can tend to crack. It can be better to just plan a break
in the piece rather than have it break itself. I would guess it is heat
though, without more information on exactly when you are finding the cracks.

Kris


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From owner-glass Thu Nov  1 17:10:00 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Broken pieces
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 19:15:28 -0500
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Message text written by INTERNET:Patty.McMaster@fbol.com
>I have been doing stained glass for over ten years
just finished  one side of a  project 2X3 - not my biggest by far
But  when I went to turn it over - a piece broke on the outer edge
The pieces were larger than most of my projects - did I put too much stre=
ss
on it w/out supporting it ?<

Yes, that's probably the reason it broke.  When I get ready to
flip a copper foil piece that large, I slide a piece of plywood under
it first, then manhandle the plywood up to verticle position, rather
than trying to pull on the glass pieces.  The plywood evenly distributes
the weight of the panel, plus it distributes the stress when you're
moving it from horizontal to verticle.  Once the panel is verticle,
move the plywood to the other side and lay the panel back down
to horizontal using the plywood again.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  1 17:17:06 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Broken pieces
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 19:15:29 -0500
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Message text written by Karen Palmer
>The ones I notice during soldering I realize are because of too much hea=
t.
However, some I do not notice until after construction, framing and
hanging.
Karen<

During soldering...yes, it's too much heat.  Noticing broken pieces after=

they are framed and installed....hmmmm.  Perhaps stress fracture in the
glass itself, and then the application of a bit too much heat during
soldering
causing the glass to finally break from the stress.  What type glass are
you
using?

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE Cracking glass
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:52:59 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C1624E.062D7CA0
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Karen,

One of the primary reasons that you have cracked pieces in glass work is =
caused by over-heating the glass.  This usually occurs when you work in =
one place too long with your iron.  It could also be because your iron =
is too hot.  If you are not using a temperature controlled iron, you =
will need to have a regulator for your iron to control the heat.

When soldering, be sure you are moving your iron quickly when laying =
your bead down.  Do not keep going back to the same place to "touch up" =
your work.  This overheats the glass and more often than not causes the =
solder to drip through. (If solder drips through it is usually because =
that area is too hot.)

Practice soldering with some float glass (plain window glass)  Cut some =
straight lines and some curved lines and try to speed up your soldering =
technique.  This is also a good time to find out what temperature your =
iron should be.  To find the desired temperature, the solder should flow =
easily as your iron moves forward on a fluxed surface.  I am assuming =
you are using the foil technique.  Another clue that your iron is too =
hot or you are staying in one area too long is that your foil will =
loosen and sometimes buckle.  You want to move as quickly as possible so =
that you are dispersing as much of the heat as possible.  If you are =
working on a large piece.  Work a while in one area and then switch =
areas so that one can cool well.

Hope this helps, good luck and keep practicing.
Moya

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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Karen,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>One of the primary reasons that you have cracked =
pieces in=20
glass work is caused by over-heating the glass.&nbsp; This usually =
occurs when=20
you work in one place too long with your iron.&nbsp; It could also be =
because=20
your iron is too hot.&nbsp; If you are not using a temperature =
controlled iron,=20
you will need to have a regulator for your iron to control the=20
heat.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>When soldering, be sure you are moving your iron =
quickly=20
when laying your bead down.&nbsp; Do not keep going back to the same =
place to=20
"touch up" your work.&nbsp; This overheats the glass and more often than =
not=20
causes the solder to drip through. (If solder drips through it is =
usually=20
because that area is too hot.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Practice soldering with some float glass (plain =
window=20
glass)&nbsp; Cut some straight lines and some curved lines and try to =
speed up=20
your soldering technique.&nbsp; This is also a good time to find out =
what=20
temperature your iron should be.&nbsp; To find the desired temperature, =
the=20
solder should flow easily as your iron moves forward on a fluxed =
surface.&nbsp;=20
I am assuming you are using the foil technique.&nbsp; Another clue that =
your=20
iron is too hot or you are staying in one area too long is that your =
foil will=20
loosen and sometimes buckle.&nbsp; You want to move as quickly as =
possible so=20
that you are dispersing as much of the heat as possible.&nbsp; If you =
are=20
working on a large piece.&nbsp; Work a while in one area and then switch =
areas=20
so that one can cool well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Hope this helps, good luck and keep=20
practicing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Moya</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Nov  1 18:10:08 2001
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Hi Everyone,

I have a question? I'm making some jewelry boxes for a craft show.  The box 
lid is a 2" x 4" bevel and the sides of the box are the dichroic bevels.  I 
want to finish one in copper patina and the other in black.  Does anyone know 
if the patina will react the dichroic coating on the bevels.  I've never 
worked with dichroic glass so I thought I would through it out to the Bungi 
People.  I've learned a lot from you people.  I'm glad I found this site.

Thanks in advance,

Ken O.
Decorative Glass

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Hi Everyone,
<BR>
<BR>I have a question? I'm making some jewelry boxes for a craft show. &nbsp;The box lid is a 2" x 4" bevel and the sides of the box are the dichroic bevels. &nbsp;I want to finish one in copper patina and the other in black. &nbsp;Does anyone know if the patina will react the dichroic coating on the bevels. &nbsp;I've never worked with dichroic glass so I thought I would through it out to the Bungi People. &nbsp;I've learned a lot from you people. &nbsp;I'm glad I found this site.
<BR>
<BR>Thanks in advance,
<BR>
<BR>Ken O.
<BR>Decorative Glass</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Nov  2 07:33:09 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Broken pieces
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 09:06:31 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Karen Palmer
>What type glass are you using?
Spectrum cathedral and Kokomo opalescent glass.
Karen<

Well, neither of those glass manufacturers are known for
making "difficult" or poorly annealed glass, so it's not the
glass itself.  Probably stress introduced into the glass
during cutting, which only manifests itself later, as was
discussed in another posting.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  2 18:36:29 2001
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From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: ripple
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 17:54:31 -0700
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I'll be using a small amount of glass for a halo on an angel. I was 
thinking about using that clear glass that kind of looks like a washboard 
to get a sunray look about the halo. The glass looks pretty bumpy and 
thick. Any advise on cutting or foiling that type of glass??  Lorley/Phoenix

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From owner-glass Fri Nov  2 19:25:14 2001
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From: "Lynda Myers" <lmyers@ci.redding.ca.us>
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Subject: Wind Chimes
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 16:25:51 -0800
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I want to make wind chimes but can't find a pattern book for them =
anywhere.  Any ideas?

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I want to make wind chimes but can't =
find a pattern=20
book for them anywhere.&nbsp; Any ideas?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sat Nov  3 06:05:15 2001
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From: "Kris" <kristc@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: ripple
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 08:34:55 -0500
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I don't have any advice on cutting except have plenty of it. I've found it
to be a pain and I've managed to mess up my fair share of heavily textured
glass. It likes to break on the ripples instead of where you want it to
break. Be very careful of scraps also. I've found this kind of glass in
particular can have deadly edges that cut you.

Try grinding by holding it almost straight up and down against the grinder
wheel as your last grinding step. This takes the high spots off the ripples
on the edges and makes foiling easier.

I'll bet its going to be pretty. Share pics if you get some :)

Kris

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lorley Oneyear" <lorley@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 7:54 PM
Subject: ripple


> I'll be using a small amount of glass for a halo on an angel. I was
> thinking about using that clear glass that kind of looks like a washboard
> to get a sunray look about the halo. The glass looks pretty bumpy and
> thick. Any advise on cutting or foiling that type of glass??
Lorley/Phoenix
>

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From owner-glass Sat Nov  3 07:56:21 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: ripple
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 09:48:39 -0500
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Message text written by Lorley Oneyear
>I'll be using a small amount of glass for a halo on an angel. I was =

thinking about using that clear glass that kind of looks like a washboard=
 =

to get a sunray look about the halo. The glass looks pretty bumpy and =

thick. Any advise on cutting or foiling that type of glass?? =

Lorley/Phoenix<

It's that thick Spectrum clear ripple, yes?  OK to cut.  HORRIBLE to foil=
. =

I ended up having to put a beveled edge on the glass in order to get the
edge down to somewhere near an 1/8" for foil.  Plus it's so thick it
doesn't line up with the other normal 1/8" thick glass.  In a nutshell...=
I
don't like it.  In fact, I've taken it out of my sample set.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  3 09:04:26 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: ripple
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 09:48:39 -0500
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Message text written by Lorley Oneyear
>I'll be using a small amount of glass for a halo on an angel. I was =

thinking about using that clear glass that kind of looks like a washboard=
 =

to get a sunray look about the halo. The glass looks pretty bumpy and =

thick. Any advise on cutting or foiling that type of glass?? =

Lorley/Phoenix<

It's that thick Spectrum clear ripple, yes?  OK to cut.  HORRIBLE to foil=
. =

I ended up having to put a beveled edge on the glass in order to get the
edge down to somewhere near an 1/8" for foil.  Plus it's so thick it
doesn't line up with the other normal 1/8" thick glass.  In a nutshell...=
I
don't like it.  In fact, I've taken it out of my sample set.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  3 16:09:22 2001
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From: "Byron Wells" <byronw26@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: ripple
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 13:50:34 -0600
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>>
Precedence: bulk

You might try Wismach ripple... Lots easier to cut  and not as thick as the
Spectrum...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lorley Oneyear" <lorley@home.com>
> To: <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 7:54 PM
> Subject: ripple
>
>
> > I'll be using a small amount of glass for a halo on an angel. I was
> > thinking about using that clear glass that kind of looks like a
washboard
> > to get a sunray look about the halo. The glass looks pretty bumpy and
> > thick. Any advise on cutting or foiling that type of glass??
> Lorley/Phoenix
> >
>
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  3 17:42:39 2001
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: flipping LARGE panels
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 20:22:59 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Christie Wood mentioned in an earlier post that she slides a piece of plywood 
under
a large panel, takes it up to vertical, moves the plywood to the other side, 
and then lays it back down.  I do the same, but add another piece of plywood 
to make a "sandwich" before flipping it over.  Since these are large panels 
(i.e. 4' x5'), this takes a helper in the shop, so I'm stopped in progress 
when I work alone. I have heard of a tilting work bench top that would permit 
me to flip large panels alone. Does anyone have plans for such a thing? 

Thanks in advance,
Ann



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From owner-glass Sun Nov  4 08:32:26 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Broken pieces
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 10:57:03 -0500
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Message text written by Karen Palmer
>Thanks so much for the information.  I had no idea that Y. glass
could be problematic.  What exactly is annealed?  Is that the
process where it is heated?<

Annealing is the very gradual lowering of temperature from the
glass's melting point (1500-2000 degrees) back down to room
temperature.  Annealing takes several hours, as the process is
deliberately slow.  It is easy to introduce stress into the glass if the
annealing is done too quickly through certain temperatures (900
down to 700 degrees is a common stress point).

The problems I had with 2 sheets of a specific color of Youghiogheny
glass were a one-time only type thing.  Youghiogheny glass is
generally not problematic for cutting due to improper annealing.
I just had some problems with that grape/ice glass Y1300RG one
time - bad batch of glass.  However, warming up Youghiogheny glass
prior to cutting DOES make cutting this type glass MUCH easier.
Cutting cold Youghiogheny glass in a cold basement on a cold
winter's day is a sure-fire way to get nice Youghiogheny shards.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Xmas ornament
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 09:51:22 -0700
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Previously we were talking about a snowflake ornament. Does anyone have a 
simple pattern that they can send to me?

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From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: "Wayne Munro" <wayneglass@telus.net>
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Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 12:18:25 -0700
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Not Kiln Work.. Just stained glass. Somthing simple to make for multiple 
gifts.



At 11:17 AM 11/04/2001 -0800, Wayne Munro wrote:

>I missed the previous message...I think I have some for kiln work for
>snowflakes...Does that help you?
>Wayne
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lorley Oneyear" <lorley@home.com>
>To: <glass@bungi.com>
>Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 8:51 AM
>Subject: Xmas ornament
>
>
> > Previously we were talking about a snowflake ornament. Does anyone have a
> > simple pattern that they can send to me?
> >
>
>
>
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<html>
<font size=3>Not Kiln Work.. Just stained glass. Somthing simple to make
for multiple gifts. <br><br>
<br><br>
At 11:17 AM 11/04/2001 -0800, Wayne Munro wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>I missed the previous message...I
think I have some for kiln work for<br>
snowflakes...Does that help you?<br>
Wayne<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: &quot;Lorley Oneyear&quot; &lt;lorley@home.com&gt;<br>
To: &lt;glass@bungi.com&gt;<br>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 8:51 AM<br>
Subject: Xmas ornament<br><br>
<br>
&gt; Previously we were talking about a snowflake ornament. Does anyone
have a<br>
&gt; simple pattern that they can send to me?<br>
&gt;<br><br>
<br><br>
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  4 23:01:41 2001
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X-Path: juno.com!pkinnetz
From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: glass racks
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 22:43:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@juno.com>
Precedence: bulk

Friends, I need some advice on what size to make my glass racks.  I
recently got a kiln, and am in the process of redesigning (and upgrading)
my studio.  You know how it is, one little piece means you end up redoing
the whole room, like when you get one little throw pillow for your living
room, and that means you have to change the color of the drapes, and why
not paint the walls while you're at it, which of course means you have to
get a new sofa because you realize the upholstery is getting old. . . .
well, the kiln made me realize that I have to place a permanent outlet
somewhere, and while I'm at it, I need to figure where a utility tub
goes, and that means I need to know where the storage shelving goes,
which brings me to my quesiton.  (I've already painted the walls, in case
you're wondering).  

The size of glass rack that was recommended in The Stained Glass
Workshop, published by Arthur Brown, is 25 in. high by 20 in. depth, by
unspecified length, with 8" spaces for the glass.  To my mind, the both
the height and width are a mite small.  I was thinking about 28" - 30"
high, by 24 " deep. Does this seem about right, or would you go with the
smaller size that was recomended in the book? The 8 " spacing seems OK,
but if someone has any thoughts to the contrary, please share.   And how
many spaces would you suggest for a small studio (parttime, not
fulltime). Right now, I have my glass separated by color (white/clear;
brown/amber; greens; blues; reds/oranges/yellows; grays/black; specialty)
in lots of cardboard boxes on the floor.  Eight spaces would probably be
the minimum I'd need, if I follow this same organizational schema. I'd
really be interested in everyone's opinions about glass racks, like do
you like what you have, and what size would be your ideal? 

I guess while I'm at it, does anyone have any thoughts on the placement
of a ceramic kiln (octagonal, about 24" D. by about 3 1/2' Ht.).  I got
this secondhand, to try my hand at stained glass painting.  I know close
to nothing about kilns. 

Peggy K. 
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  5 02:49:01 2001
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X-Path: writingmachine.com!ClaireF
From: Claire Fuller <ClaireF@writingmachine.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Looking for Christmas Ornament Patterns
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:22:38 -0000 
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@writingmachine.com>
Precedence: bulk

I've been making ornaments for my childrens' school fair. I've been doing
angels and fairies. I just use a triangular off cut of glass for the body
and solder on copper wire arms and legs (and sometimes wings), and then use
a piece of round glass, or even a button for the head. Then if I want it to
be even more elaborate I'm attaching a copper wire hoop around the head with
some tiny beads threaded on it. They look quite good - even if I say so
myself! :)

Claire

Winchester,
England

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Williams [mailto:jkwilliams@charter.net]
Sent: 29 October 2001 20:33
To: Becker, Donna; glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Looking for Christmas Ornament Patterns


I have had good luck with 3 leaf holly with red nuggets for
the berries.  I just drew a holly leaf and kind of fudged
them together with the berries on top.  Fast and easy.  Also
if this is for a school craft fair maybe some apples in
different sizes. Cut the apple shape with 1 leaf and add a
thick wire for the stem.  I sell alot of these for students
to give to teachers for christmas presents.  I hope this
helps and tell your son to have a great trip.

Kim Williams
jkwilliams@charter.net


On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:41:28 -0400
 "Becker, Donna" <DF125031@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com> wrote:
> Hello Again!
> 
> My son is going on a mission trip to Mexico with our
> church youth group.
> Each of the kids are expected to raise $300 for there
> part of the expense to
> get there, etc.  Our local grade school is having a
> "craft fair" in about a
> month, so I asked him if he'd like to make stained glass
> ornaments for the
> event and sell them to help raise the money.  I will of
> course be doing a
> lot of the work, but since I am a hobbyist, we have a lot
> to make in a short
> time.  Looking through my file cabinets of patterns, I
> realized I just don't
> have much of that type of pattern.  Here's what I'm
> looking for:  Christmas,
> 5 to 10 pieces, somewhat elegant, and when shrunk to
> ornament size, the
> pieces are not too small to work with (he's a freshman
> boy, he's not too
> good with tiny pieces yet, and I want him to really put
> the effort in).
> I've been to Warner-Criv and a couple other sites, and
> will continue
> looking, but I was wondering if anyone else had any they
> could share or knew
> of a good source.
> 
> Thank You all so much for everything.  I've learned so
> much from this group.
> 
> 
> Donna Becker
> Senior Consultant II
> Office  630-469-5726
> Cell 630-248-0184
> donna.becker@chicagoil.ncr.com
> 
> 		
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  5 14:37:27 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!CUngv
From: CUngv@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: making wooden frames for panels
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:37:40 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

I have several panels in need of frames.  I wonder if anyone out their makes 
their own?  I am aware of two companies that sell frame kits.  One is 
Northern Hardwoods Framing and the other is a pop-lock system. I like the 
Northern Hardwoods type frames better, mainly because I prefer the mitered 
corners, but the pop-lock system, with the holes through the front and back 
and attached with a peg, might be easier to make.  I just don't like seeing 
the plugs in the corners from the front.

In any event, I have basic woodworking tools available, e.g., table saw, 
drill press, router table.  Can anyone give me any tips on an easy way to 
make wood frames that would not require more than beginning woodworking 
skills?
----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  5 15:06:31 2001
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X-Path: yahoo.com!chicken0102
From: Heather Klem <chicken0102@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:58:03 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
Precedence: bulk

I'm looking for someone who could make me a Coca-Cola
tiffany glass swag light.  I got this link off of
Yahoo Search.  I don't care if it's authentic or not. 
If you can, could you send me a quote?  I want a lamp
that's about 18-22" in diameter, and at most 18" high.

Thanks,
Heather Klem

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  5 15:25:17 2001
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X-Path: doorpi.net!mmam5
From: mmam5@doorpi.net
To: Awbaxter@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: flipping LARGE panels
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 11:49:10 EST
Message-ID: <200111051649.fA5GnFf05613@mail1.netacc.net>
Precedence: bulk

I too found the plywood is a great way to flip big projects. I too work
alone mostly - so have found that masking tape is great for holding your
project to the plywood while flipping it over.

Marci
Martin Designs

On Sat, 3 Nov 2001 20:22:59 EST Awbaxter@aol.com wrote:

> Christie Wood mentioned in an earlier post that she slides a piece
> of plywood under a large panel, takes it up to vertical, moves the
plywood to the other side,  and then lays it back down.  I do the same, but
add another piece of plywood  to make a "sandwich" before flipping it over.
 Since these are large panels (i.e. 4' x5'), this takes a helper in the
shop, so I'm stopped in progress when I work alone. I have heard of a
tilting work bench top that would permit 
> me to flip large panels alone. Does anyone have plans for such a
> thing? 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Ann
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,	    please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Mon Nov  5 19:19:24 2001
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X-Path: home.com!kauriee
From: "Kauriee" <kauriee@home.com>
To: <mmam5@doorpi.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: flipping LARGE panels
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 18:58:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<200111051649.fA5GnFf05613@mail1.netacc.net>>
Precedence: bulk

I too use the large plywood.  I nail a strip of wood to one edge of the
plywood, so the panel doesn't slide off the wood when you are tipping it off
the table.  I then sandwich the glass with another piece of plywood as
Christie had mentioned.  Although I could flip the panels alone if I had to,
I feel it is better to be safe than sorry...use at least two people!!!

Kauriee Wood
The Looking Glass
Felton, Delaware

----- Original Message -----
From: <mmam5@doorpi.net>
To: <Awbaxter@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: flipping LARGE panels


> I too found the plywood is a great way to flip big projects. I too work
> alone mostly - so have found that masking tape is great for holding your
> project to the plywood while flipping it over.
>
> Marci
> Martin Designs
>
> On Sat, 3 Nov 2001 20:22:59 EST Awbaxter@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Christie Wood mentioned in an earlier post that she slides a piece
> > of plywood under a large panel, takes it up to vertical, moves the
> plywood to the other side,  and then lays it back down.  I do the same,
but
> add another piece of plywood  to make a "sandwich" before flipping it
over.
>  Since these are large panels (i.e. 4' x5'), this takes a helper in the
> shop, so I'm stopped in progress when I work alone. I have heard of a
> tilting work bench top that would permit
> > me to flip large panels alone. Does anyone have plans for such a
> > thing?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Ann
> >
> >
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,     please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
> ----
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> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  5 19:32:36 2001
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K" <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: <CUngv@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: making wooden frames for panels
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:14:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@softhouse.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Frames are much cheaper when you make your own.  Use oak 1 x 2's or
custom order 2 x 2's or 2 x 3's depending on the size of the panel to be
done.  Found the outline used for demo I did a couple years ago, feel
free to print it.
Karen
giapet@softhouse.com

Making Wood Frames

Materials List
Wood stock, 1" x 2" oak
Router & bits
 ¼" veining straight bit
 ¼" or 3/8" round over bit
Router table
Power Miter saw or Hand Saw & Mitre Box
Corner Clamps
Drill & bits
Wood screws
45° angle
Sandpaper (med & fine grit), or belt sander
Wood Stain & Varnish
Countersink drill bit (optional)
Wood plugs (optional)

1) Cut 4 pieces of wood stock approx. 3"- 4" longer the panel edges.

2) Fit ¼" straight bit to router.  Adjust the router table fence so bit
is centered to wood.  With bit set to a depth of approx. 1/8", test on a
scrap piece of wood.  Run scrap piece through router and turn it around
and run through again.  Make adjustments if needed.  Cut all 4 pieces of
wood running them through router in both directions.  Increase the depth
of cut at 1/8" intervals till you reach the right depth determined by
the zinc you have on the panel.  Btw, no need to miter the corners of
the zinc on the panel, you will not see the zinc joints when framed in
wood.

3) Fit round over bit (1/4" or 3/8") to router & adjust router table
fence so bit will round over corners.  Test on scrap wood & adjust if
needed.  Run wood through router, turn it around & run through again.
Do each of the 4 corners for all 4 pieces of wood.

4) This is the best time to do some sanding.  If you sand after doing
the miter cuts you might round off the edges too much.

5) Set Miter saw to 45° setting.  You should always check this setting
with 45° angle against the blade & fence for accuracy.  Miter cut the
ends of 2 pieces of wood with power saw or hand saw & miter box making
sure the channel edge is on the shortest side of the miter cut.  Fit
this corner to panel and mark where next cut should be.  This is where
it gets tricky.  You can't just measure from the panels' edge because
the zinc edge is inside the frame.  If not sure, cut long.  Check fit to
panel again, and keep trimming off small amounts till the length is
right.  Use corner clamps to hold the pieces steady.  Very important
that the finished frame is not too tight against the panel.  Try to
leave 1/16" of "float" space.  Mark, miter cut, and fit the next side
adding another corner clamp as you work around the panel.

6) With the frame in the corner clamps, mark and drill pilot holes for
the wood screws.  Usually done at the top & bottom.  During this step
please remove the glass panel for safety's sake.  Drill countersinks for
the wood screws if you intend on using wood plugs.

7) Finish sand with fine grit sandpaper.  Apply stain, 2-3 coats varnish
& let dry.  Be sure to lay pieces out in the right order when you stain
& varnish.  Attach frame around panel, add hangers & chain to the sides.
Admire your handy-work!



> I have several panels in need of frames.  I wonder if anyone out their
makes
> their own?  I am aware of two companies that sell frame kits.  One is
> Northern Hardwoods Framing and the other is a pop-lock system. I like
the
> Northern Hardwoods type frames better, mainly because I prefer the
mitered
> corners, but the pop-lock system, with the holes through the front and
back
> and attached with a peg, might be easier to make.  I just don't like
seeing
> the plugs in the corners from the front.
>
> In any event, I have basic woodworking tools available, e.g., table
saw,
> drill press, router table.  Can anyone give me any tips on an easy way
to
> make wood frames that would not require more than beginning
woodworking
> skills?
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  5 20:30:54 2001
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com
	via smail with stdio
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:18:48 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #534 built 2001-Jul-23)
X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K" <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: <CUngv@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: making wooden frames for panels
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:14:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@softhouse.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Frames are much cheaper when you make your own.  Use oak 1 x 2's or
custom order 2 x 2's or 2 x 3's depending on the size of the panel to be
done.  Found the outline used for demo I did a couple years ago, feel
free to print it.
Karen
giapet@softhouse.com

Making Wood Frames

Materials List
Wood stock, 1" x 2" oak
Router & bits
 ¼" veining straight bit
 ¼" or 3/8" round over bit
Router table
Power Miter saw or Hand Saw & Mitre Box
Corner Clamps
Drill & bits
Wood screws
45° angle
Sandpaper (med & fine grit), or belt sander
Wood Stain & Varnish
Countersink drill bit (optional)
Wood plugs (optional)

1) Cut 4 pieces of wood stock approx. 3"- 4" longer the panel edges.

2) Fit ¼" straight bit to router.  Adjust the router table fence so bit
is centered to wood.  With bit set to a depth of approx. 1/8", test on a
scrap piece of wood.  Run scrap piece through router and turn it around
and run through again.  Make adjustments if needed.  Cut all 4 pieces of
wood running them through router in both directions.  Increase the depth
of cut at 1/8" intervals till you reach the right depth determined by
the zinc you have on the panel.  Btw, no need to miter the corners of
the zinc on the panel, you will not see the zinc joints when framed in
wood.

3) Fit round over bit (1/4" or 3/8") to router & adjust router table
fence so bit will round over corners.  Test on scrap wood & adjust if
needed.  Run wood through router, turn it around & run through again.
Do each of the 4 corners for all 4 pieces of wood.

4) This is the best time to do some sanding.  If you sand after doing
the miter cuts you might round off the edges too much.

5) Set Miter saw to 45° setting.  You should always check this setting
with 45° angle against the blade & fence for accuracy.  Miter cut the
ends of 2 pieces of wood with power saw or hand saw & miter box making
sure the channel edge is on the shortest side of the miter cut.  Fit
this corner to panel and mark where next cut should be.  This is where
it gets tricky.  You can't just measure from the panels' edge because
the zinc edge is inside the frame.  If not sure, cut long.  Check fit to
panel again, and keep trimming off small amounts till the length is
right.  Use corner clamps to hold the pieces steady.  Very important
that the finished frame is not too tight against the panel.  Try to
leave 1/16" of "float" space.  Mark, miter cut, and fit the next side
adding another corner clamp as you work around the panel.

6) With the frame in the corner clamps, mark and drill pilot holes for
the wood screws.  Usually done at the top & bottom.  During this step
please remove the glass panel for safety's sake.  Drill countersinks for
the wood screws if you intend on using wood plugs.

7) Finish sand with fine grit sandpaper.  Apply stain, 2-3 coats varnish
& let dry.  Be sure to lay pieces out in the right order when you stain
& varnish.  Attach frame around panel, add hangers & chain to the sides.
Admire your handy-work!



> I have several panels in need of frames.  I wonder if anyone out their
makes
> their own?  I am aware of two companies that sell frame kits.  One is
> Northern Hardwoods Framing and the other is a pop-lock system. I like
the
> Northern Hardwoods type frames better, mainly because I prefer the
mitered
> corners, but the pop-lock system, with the holes through the front and
back
> and attached with a peg, might be easier to make.  I just don't like
seeing
> the plugs in the corners from the front.
>
> In any event, I have basic woodworking tools available, e.g., table
saw,
> drill press, router table.  Can anyone give me any tips on an easy way
to
> make wood frames that would not require more than beginning
woodworking
> skills?
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Mon Nov  5 21:43:21 2001
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #534 built 2001-Jul-23)
X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: RE: Xmas ornament
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:55:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

Take a bevel cluster of holly, which has about 3 leaves, and two or
three berries.  By breaking the cluster up, using just one leaf, plus
some other glass for leaves and blobs for berries, you can add a touch
of class without making the ornament as expensive.

You can also take an ordinary stock bevel - circles, squares, diamonds,
etc. and foil the edges (perhaps with that curvy edged foil) plus run
several foil strips across the face - sort of long icicle shapes.  Also
take some blobs or interesting broken bits and foil their edges.  Then
attach the blobs to the foil and drip solder on them to make sort of
elvish treasures.  Cec

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I am looking for someone who can make me a Coca-Cola
tiffany swag lamp, about 18" high and 18-20" in
diameter.  If anyone can, could you send me a quote?

Thanks,
Heather Klem

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To the general wisdom of the group:

I have a Toyo pistol grip cutter that is leaking oil.  I cannot tell
where the oil is leaking from.  It only seems to leak when it is in my
tool box.  I discussed the problem with the person at the store where I
buy my supplies, and she suggested filling the cutter with oil and
letting it sit out on my work table (which happens to be my washer and
dryer with a board over the top) with a piece of paper toweling under it
so that I could see where the oil was coming from.  I did this, letting
it lay on top of my dryer for a couple of weeks.  No leak. So I put the
cutter away in my tool box until I needed it again.  Last night I opened
my tool box for the first time in several months, and almost all of the
oil from the cutter was in the tray of the box.  It does not seem to be
leaking from the head, as I had had a cover on the head, and there was
no oil inside the cover.  It does (did) not seem to be leaking from the
area where the cutter is filled, because when I began the experiment of
letting it lay on my dryer, I started with only a small amount of oil in
the barrel of the cutter and the level of the oil did not come up to the
edge of the hole.  After it did not leak for a week or so, I filled the
barrel.  Still no leak, until I put the cutter away and now the top tray
of my tool box is full of oil and all of the tools that were in that
tray are covered with cutter oil.  Is there any solution?  Am I doing
something horribly wrong?

Thanks.

Beth

Beth Downing
University of Wyoming Libraries
Cataloging Department
P.O. Box 3334
Laramie, WY  82071
(307) 766-6512
bdowning@uwyo.edu



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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">To the general wisdom of the =
group:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">I have a Toyo pistol grip cutter that =
is leaking oil.&nbsp; I cannot tell where the oil is leaking from.&nbsp; =
It only seems to leak when it is in my tool box.&nbsp; I discussed the =
problem with the person at the store where I buy my supplies, and she =
suggested filling the cutter with oil and letting it sit out on my work =
table (which happens to be my washer and dryer with a board over the =
top) with a piece of paper toweling under it so that I could see where =
the oil was coming from.&nbsp; I did this, letting it lay on top of my =
dryer for a couple of weeks.&nbsp; No leak. So I put the cutter away in =
my tool box until I needed it again.&nbsp; Last night I opened my tool =
box for the first time in several months, and almost all of the oil from =
the cutter was in the tray of the box.&nbsp; It does not seem to be =
leaking from the head, as I had had a cover on the head, and there was =
no oil inside the cover.&nbsp; It does (did) not seem to be leaking from =
the area where the cutter is filled, because when I began the experiment =
of letting it lay on my dryer, I started with only a small amount of oil =
in the barrel of the cutter and the level of the oil did not come up to =
the edge of the hole.&nbsp; After it did not leak for a week or so, I =
filled the barrel.&nbsp; Still no leak, until I put the cutter away and =
now the top tray of my tool box is full of oil and all of the tools that =
were in that tray are covered with cutter oil.&nbsp; Is there any =
solution?&nbsp; Am I doing something horribly wrong?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">Thanks.</FONT>
</P>

<P><B><FONT FACE=3D"Lucida Handwriting">Beth</FONT></B>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">Beth Downing</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">University of Wyoming =
Libraries</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">Cataloging Department</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">P.O. Box 3334</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">Laramie, WY&nbsp; 82071</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">(307) 766-6512</FONT>

<BR><B><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Tahoma">bdowning@uwyo.edu</FONT></B>
</P>
<BR>

</BODY>
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From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Help with leaking cutter
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:01:43 CST 6CDT
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Beth--

I've never used a pistol grip cutter, but I've heard lots of people 
complain about them leaking.  Somebody else may have ideas for 
detecting the source and fixing your leak but, although my cutter 
doesn't leak, I no longer put oil in it anyway.  I have a small, 
shallow, plastic container (with a screw-on lid) in which I keep a 
very small amount of oil.  I simply touch my cutter to the oil before 
every (well, sometimes every second or third) cut.  Some people 
also keep an oiled sponge or rag in the bottom of a jar and stand 
their cutter in it between cuts.  And some folks use no oil at all!  

Kaye
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 01:34:42 2001
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Subject: Re: Leaking Cutter
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Hi Everyone,
I also have a Toyo pistol grip cutter and I'm using a cooking utensil 
carousel from Pampered Chef.  Hold all the tools nicely. I have the cutter 
with the filler cap down and I noticed it leaking also.  I now have it have 
it laying flat on its side on my cutting board. I don't want the oil working 
on the rubber handles making them loose.

Waiting for more responses,

Ken O.
Decorative Glass  

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Hi Everyone,
<BR>I also have a Toyo pistol grip cutter and I'm using a cooking utensil carousel from Pampered Chef. &nbsp;Hold all the tools nicely. I have the cutter with the filler cap down and I noticed it leaking also. &nbsp;I now have it have it laying flat on its side on my cutting board. I don't want the oil working on the rubber handles making them loose.
<BR>
<BR>Waiting for more responses,
<BR>
<BR>Ken O.
<BR>Decorative Glass &nbsp;</FONT></HTML>

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From: "Elaine" <wmagdycz@massed.net>
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Subject: Re: Help with leaking cutter
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 08:13:38 -0500
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Beth....I don't put oil in my pistol grip either because of the leaking
problem and it also left too much oil when scoring. Elaine


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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 06:57:20 2001
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Subject: Re: Leaking Cutter
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 09:56:39 -0500
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i have pistol grip supercutter and to avoid leaks, i just prop the
cutter (the l-shaped portion between the cutter head and the handle)
against the edge of the open box i keep my tools in. no more leaks!

--boyd

-- 

"History is the lie commonly agreed upon."

	 -- Voltaire

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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 08:00:53 2001
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Beth,
Look and see if the cutter is leaking by the cap.  There is an air vent =
in the brass screw.  That could be the culprit.  Another way of =
decreasing leaks as well as flow of oil is to stuff the handle with =
sponge bits, or even cotton balls.  This will help keep the oil in the =
handle and then the wick can pull less oil into the cutter wheel.
Hope this helps.
Moya

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Beth,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Look and see if the cutter is leaking by the =
cap.&nbsp;=20
There is an air vent in the brass screw.&nbsp; That could be the =
culprit.&nbsp;=20
Another way of decreasing leaks as well as flow of oil is to stuff the =
handle=20
with sponge bits, or even cotton balls.&nbsp; This will help keep the =
oil in the=20
handle and then the wick can pull less oil into the cutter =
wheel.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Hope this helps.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Moya</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 08:14:36 2001
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From: Southern Exposure <shodge@gdi.net>
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Subject: Re: Leaking Cutter
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:49:56 -0500
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Ok Ok Ok

Heres the deal.
You are talking about oil a wick and gravity, of course they leak, they
all leak, its how they work. The trick is just don't fill it up. It
doesn't take a lot of oil to lubricate the cutter wheel. Only put about
1/2 to 1 inch of oil in the handle and that should take care of your
problems. Also Never Never Never take a pair of pliars and try tighten
up the filler plug, the only thing that will accomplish is to crack the
barrel then you will really have a leaking problme. If you wish you can
get one of those little tubs like the ones you get potato salad in from
Publix. Lay your cutter in pointy end up and it will be just fine.
Relax and enjoy.
Skip
Southern Exposure Stained Glass Supply

boyd wrote:

> i have pistol grip supercutter and to avoid leaks, i just prop the
> cutter (the l-shaped portion between the cutter head and the handle)
> against the edge of the open box i keep my tools in. no more leaks!
>
> --boyd
>
> --
>
> "History is the lie commonly agreed upon."
>
>          -- Voltaire
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 09:30:56 2001
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I have only been doing stained glass for about a year and I have always made 
"big" panels. For instance 3'x5' panel and of course I always put a frame 
around them. 
I have recently tried my hand at a few sun catchers (I hate those small 
things) however I need help. 
Here is the problem: When you are soldering and you come to the outside edge, 
the solder just runs out and you can't get a "bead" I have tried putting a 
scrap piece of glass there, but lots of times, the scrap glass doesn't fit 
tight enough ....for example if it is an inside corner. Then I go over it 
again and again and you know that doesn't work! I hope you can understand the 
"problem"
Thanks in advance for your help!
Linda
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 09:39:40 2001
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To: shodge@gdi.net
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Subject: Re: Leaking Cutter
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 11:34:10 EST
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Thanks Skip and Boyd!

Another way to get past the leaking thing is to just take a small wide
mouth jar (baby food, etc.) Put a small amount of oil in the bottom
and stuff a 1/4 piece of paper towel into the jar (or whatever	fits)
The towel will soak up the oil and when you need to oil your cutter -
just run it gently over the oily towel. It gets just enough
lubrication on the area where it really needs to be and with a nice
fitting jar top, it won't leak all over your other tools.

Marci
Martin Designs

On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:49:56 -0500 Southern Exposure wrote: 

Ok Ok Ok 

Heres the deal. You are talking about oil a wick and gravity, of
course they leak, they all leak, its how they work. The trick is just
don't fill it up. It doesn't take a lot of oil to lubricate the cutter
wheel. Only put about 1/2 to 1 inch of oil in the handle and that
should take care of your problems. Also Never Never Never take a pair
of pliars and try tighten up the filler plug, the only thing that will
accomplish is to crack the barrel then you will really have a leaking
problme. If you wish you can get one of those little tubs like the
ones you get potato salad in from Publix. Lay your cutter in pointy
end up and it will be just fine. 

Relax and enjoy. 

Skip 
Southern Exposure Stained Glass Supply 

boyd wrote: 

i have pistol grip supercutter and to avoid leaks, i just prop the
cutter (the l-shaped portion between the cutter head and the handle)
against the edge of the open box i keep my tools in. no more leaks! 

--boyd 

--

"History is the lie commonly agreed upon." 

-- Voltaire

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Subject: Re: Help with leaking cutter
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 11:36:31 EST
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Sorry Gang!  

I didn't see this one before I sent in my other note!

Marci
Martin Designs

On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:01:43 CST 6CDT "Kaye Sodt" wrote:

> Beth--
> 
> I've never used a pistol grip cutter, but I've heard lots of
> people 
> complain about them leaking.	Somebody else may have ideas for 
> detecting the source and fixing your leak but, although my cutter 
> 
> doesn't leak, I no longer put oil in it anyway.  I have a small, 
> shallow, plastic container (with a screw-on lid) in which I keep a
> 
> very small amount of oil.  I simply touch my cutter to the oil
> before 
> every (well, sometimes every second or third) cut.  Some people 
> also keep an oiled sponge or rag in the bottom of a jar and stand 
> 
> their cutter in it between cuts.  And some folks use no oil at
> all!	
> 
> Kaye
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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I have a Toyo pistol cutter and it ALWAYS leaks. I bought a Fletcher and have 
had NO problems with it leaking at all. 

Cinda

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<FONT  COLOR="#8000ff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Georgia Ref" LANG="0">I have a Toyo pistol cutter and it ALWAYS leaks. I bought a Fletcher and have had NO problems with it leaking at all. <BR>
<BR>
Cinda<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 11:31:06 2001
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From: "Kris" <kristc@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Coca-cola tiffany light
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 08:20:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>
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If you haven't found someone yet, I was going to suggest a visit to
www.igga.org (International Guild of Stained Glass Artists)  You might be
able to find someone in your area there. I just checked the site though and
couldn't get to it. Maybe they are having a temporary technical problem?
Anyone know?

Kris

----- Original Message -----
From: "Heather Klem" <chicken0102@yahoo.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 12:33 PM
Subject: Coca-cola tiffany light


> I am looking for someone who can make me a Coca-Cola
> tiffany swag lamp, about 18" high and 18-20" in
> diameter.  If anyone can, could you send me a quote?
>
> Thanks,
> Heather Klem
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Find a job, post your resume.
> http://careers.yahoo.com
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 12:01:07 2001
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'WaynLinda@aol.com'" <WaynLinda@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: soldering edges of suncatchers
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:44:35 -0700 
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

have the piece flat on the table. run your iron over the outside edge to
pretin the sides of the foil. do both sides. hold the piece vertically so
the edge is horizontal. load the flat of the iron with a drop of solder.
touch it to the horizontal of the edge. it should bead up. do this all the
way around. if the piece doesn't have flat sides, you have to rotate the
piece so the edge is horizontal, otherwise the solder will run downhill.

it's hard to describe, easier to understand if you see it occur. try going
to a stained glass shop and asking them to show you how.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: WaynLinda@aol.com [mailto:WaynLinda@aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 9:55 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: soldering
> 
> 
> I have only been doing stained glass for about a year and I 
> have always made 
> "big" panels. For instance 3'x5' panel and of course I always 
> put a frame 
> around them. 
> I have recently tried my hand at a few sun catchers (I hate 
> those small 
> things) however I need help. 
> Here is the problem: When you are soldering and you come to 
> the outside edge, 
> the solder just runs out and you can't get a "bead" I have 
> tried putting a 
> scrap piece of glass there, but lots of times, the scrap 
> glass doesn't fit 
> tight enough ....for example if it is an inside corner. Then 
> I go over it 
> again and again and you know that doesn't work! I hope you 
> can understand the 
> "problem"
> Thanks in advance for your help!
> Linda
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 12:24:50 2001
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From: Awbaxter@aol.com
To: kristc@home.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Coca-cola tiffany light
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 14:46:03 EST
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Hi Kris, 
Thanks for the recommendation of the IGGA. You are right... we are 
experiencing temporary problems with the site right now.  Hope to have it all 
up and running soon.

In the meantime, if Heather would like to email me privately, I will see what 
help I might be.

Ann Baxter
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 12:30:33 2001
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From: WaynLinda@aol.com
To: gunnx4@home.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: soldering
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 14:46:13 EST
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In a message dated 11/7/2001 1:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
gunnx4@home.com writes:

<<  With the other hand, I hold my iron tip under the tip of
 solder and load my tip with solder.  Then I take it to the fluxed edge
 and tap that solder on.  Repeat...repeat repeat repeat.  I wipe the edge
 off, reflux, then tap solder around to smooth any rough spots. >>

How do you get where you soldered on the edge to blend in with the rest of 
the joint? I wish I could watch someone, but I live out ........way 
out........... and my instructor only makes big panels. She tried to help one 
of the students make a sun catcher and it looked really bad! However, she is 
great at big things!
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 12:39:27 2001
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From: "Irwin Judson" <irwin.judson@ns.sympatico.ca>
To: "boyd" <boydz@mindspring.com>,
Subject: Re: Leaking Cutter
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 11:56:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@ns.sympatico.ca>
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I have a self-designed work table.  I cut the top out of a small can (like
frozen concentrated orange juice) and nailed it to the side of the table
beside my cutting station.  I then dropped a piece of paper towel into the
can.  I stand the pistol grip in the can, grip upward.
The leak is absorbed by the towel, the cutter wheel is never dry, the handle
rarely gets oily (except when my wife lays the cutter on the table top!).
Irwin

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----- Original Message -----
From: "boyd" <boydz@mindspring.com>
To: "Bungi Glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: Leaking Cutter


>
> i have pistol grip supercutter and to avoid leaks, i just prop the
> cutter (the l-shaped portion between the cutter head and the handle)
> against the edge of the open box i keep my tools in. no more leaks!
>
> --boyd
>
> --
>
> "History is the lie commonly agreed upon."
>
> -- Voltaire
>
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 12:54:34 2001
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From: "Kris" <kristc@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Leaking Cutter
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 08:07:09 -0500
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I do kind of like Kay said, have a jar with some paper towel in the bottom
soaked with oil, and I put my cutter in there. Mine wasl leaky enough it
used to leave oil on my glass when I was cutting and I didn't like that. I
have done the jar thing for literally years and the cutter seems to be doing
just fine.

Kris

----- Original Message -----
From: UserDusty@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Leaking Cutter


Hi Everyone,
I also have a Toyo pistol grip cutter and I'm using a cooking utensil
carousel from Pampered Chef.  Hold all the tools nicely. I have the cutter
with the filler cap down and I noticed it leaking also.  I now have it have
it laying flat on its side on my cutting board. I don't want the oil working
on the rubber handles making them loose.

Waiting for more responses,

Ken O.
Decorative Glass

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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 13:58:27 2001
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X-Path: one.net!gwood
From: "Gregg Wood" <gwood@one.net>
To: "Mary E. Downing" <BDowning@uwyo.edu>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Help with leaking cutter
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 19:04:22 -0500
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What I tell people that buy the Toyo pistol grip cutter is 
"Never put oil in it.  It leaks like a sieve.  Just dip it."
I also think (just me perhaps) it makes an oily mess
on the glass.

There is a 'wick' in the barrel that moves oil from the
handle to the head and it does this very well.  Too well.
Capillary action will cause the oil to pump itself out.
With a cover over the head the oil just leaks from the top
of the head around the barrel.
If you really want to leave oil in it, store it barrel side up,
fill side down.

-G

> To the general wisdom of the group:
> 
> I have a Toyo pistol grip cutter that is leaking oil.  I cannot tell
> where the oil is leaking from.  It only seems to leak when it is in my
> tool box.  I discussed the problem with the person at the store where I
> buy my supplies, and she suggested filling the cutter with oil and
> letting it sit out on my work table (which happens to be my washer and
> dryer with a board over the top) with a piece of paper toweling under it
> so that I could see where the oil was coming from.  I did this, letting
> it lay on top of my dryer for a couple of weeks.  No leak. So I put the
> cutter away in my tool box until I needed it again.  Last night I opened
> my tool box for the first time in several months, and almost all of the
> oil from the cutter was in the tray of the box.  It does not seem to be
> leaking from the head, as I had had a cover on the head, and there was
> no oil inside the cover.  It does (did) not seem to be leaking from the
> area where the cutter is filled, because when I began the experiment of
> letting it lay on my dryer, I started with only a small amount of oil in
> the barrel of the cutter and the level of the oil did not come up to the
> edge of the hole.  After it did not leak for a week or so, I filled the
> barrel.  Still no leak, until I put the cutter away and now the top tray
> of my tool box is full of oil and all of the tools that were in that
> tray are covered with cutter oil.  Is there any solution?  Am I doing
> something horribly wrong?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Beth
> 


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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 17:00:53 2001
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From: Gary Shultz <gshultz@mail.smu.edu>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Help with leaking cutter
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 09:00:52 -0600
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When I've had this problem, the leaking was around the screw where you pour
the oil into the to cutter.  As often as not, it was because I had forgotten
to retighten the screw when I was finished cutting.
=Gary

On 11/6/01 5:01 PM, "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU> wrote:

> Beth--
> 
> I've never used a pistol grip cutter, but I've heard lots of people
> complain about them leaking.  Somebody else may have ideas for
> detecting the source and fixing your leak but, although my cutter
> doesn't leak, I no longer put oil in it anyway.  I have a small,
> shallow, plastic container (with a screw-on lid) in which I keep a
> very small amount of oil.  I simply touch my cutter to the oil before
> every (well, sometimes every second or third) cut.  Some people
> also keep an oiled sponge or rag in the bottom of a jar and stand
> their cutter in it between cuts.  And some folks use no oil at all!
> 
> Kaye
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 17:07:53 2001
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Help with leaking cutter
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 19:41:17 -0500
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Message text written by "Mary E. Downing"
>After it did not leak for a week or so, I filled the
barrel.  Still no leak, until I put the cutter away and now the top tray
of my tool box is full of oil and all of the tools that were in that
tray are covered with cutter oil.  Is there any solution?  Am I doing
something horribly wrong?<

You are doing nothing wrong.  Toyo pistol grip cutters
have a history of suddenly developing leaks from the
joint between the oil-filled barrel and the cutter head
spring-loaded mechanism.  They ALL do this over time.
Most folk, if they don't want to pay for a new Toyo cutter,
just don't fill up the cutter, and just dip the cutter head into
a small pool of oil, as per normal non-automatic cutters.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 18:00:53 2001
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Help with leaking cutter
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 20:50:50 -0500
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Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

OOps - sent this to Christie alone instead of group. duh! Cec

Cecily & Ralph Wood wrote:

> OR they don't give down any oil at all!!!  I've even emptied the oil (never
> keep much in there) and squirted it with WD40, and still nothing.  I'm
> finally just squirting WD40 on a paper towel and running the cutter over
> the area between cuts. - Cec
>
> "Christie A. Wood" wrote:
>
> > Message text written by "Mary E. Downing"
> > >After it did not leak for a week or so, I filled the
> > barrel.  Still no leak, until I put the cutter away and now the top tray
> > of my tool box is full of oil and all of the tools that were in that
> > tray are covered with cutter oil.  Is there any solution?  Am I doing
> > something horribly wrong?<
> >
> > You are doing nothing wrong.  Toyo pistol grip cutters
> > have a history of suddenly developing leaks from the
> > joint between the oil-filled barrel and the cutter head
> > spring-loaded mechanism.  They ALL do this over time.
> > Most folk, if they don't want to pay for a new Toyo cutter,
> > just don't fill up the cutter, and just dip the cutter head into
> > a small pool of oil, as per normal non-automatic cutters.
> >
> > Christie A. Wood
> > Art Glass Ensembles
> > Denton, TX
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 22:24:46 2001
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X-Path: home.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: WaynLinda@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: soldering
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 14:07:52 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<72.127ff6be.291ae985@aol.com>>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

*Always* end your foil tape inside the design.  If you dont you will
almost always have a line showing where the foil ended.

The rest is practice.  If it's rough, wipe it off with a damp paper
towel, reflux, and just put the edge of your tip on it, lift straight
up.  Keep doing that until smooth all the way around.  It takes some
practice, but you'll get the hang of it pretty quick.  Every now and
then you'll get something too hot and the solder will run down the side.

No problem, just let it cool, then pick it off.  It wont stick (since
you've cleaned that area and it's not fluxed).

Suzanne

WaynLinda@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 11/7/2001 1:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> gunnx4@home.com writes:
> 
> <<  With the other hand, I hold my iron tip under the tip of
>  solder and load my tip with solder.  Then I take it to the fluxed edge
>  and tap that solder on.  Repeat...repeat repeat repeat.  I wipe the edge
>  off, reflux, then tap solder around to smooth any rough spots. >>
> 
> How do you get where you soldered on the edge to blend in with the rest of
> the joint? I wish I could watch someone, but I live out ........way
> out........... and my instructor only makes big panels. She tried to help one
> of the students make a sun catcher and it looked really bad! However, she is
> great at big things!
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  7 22:30:34 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: WaynLinda@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: soldering
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 12:18:20 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

What I do:

I unroll enough solder so it's sticking straight out from the roll.
I hold the suncatcher or what ever I want an edge bead on upright with
one hand.  With the other hand, I hold my iron tip under the tip of
solder and load my tip with solder.  Then I take it to the fluxed edge
and tap that solder on.  Repeat...repeat repeat repeat.  I wipe the edge
off, reflux, then tap solder around to smooth any rough spots.

You can see an example of a finished fan lamp that I soldered around
like that here;

http://www.villagesoftsmith.com/glassdancer/YoughFan.jpg

Suzanne

WaynLinda@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have only been doing stained glass for about a year and I have always made
> "big" panels. For instance 3'x5' panel and of course I always put a frame
> around them.
> I have recently tried my hand at a few sun catchers (I hate those small
> things) however I need help.
> Here is the problem: When you are soldering and you come to the outside edge,
> the solder just runs out and you can't get a "bead" I have tried putting a
> scrap piece of glass there, but lots of times, the scrap glass doesn't fit
> tight enough ....for example if it is an inside corner. Then I go over it
> again and again and you know that doesn't work! I hope you can understand the
> "problem"
> Thanks in advance for your help!
> Linda
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  8 00:00:24 2001
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X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz
From: "Elaine" <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: soldering
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 02:01:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne,
That fan lamp is impressive! If you don't mind me asking, what solder and
flux do you use? Thanks, Elaine

----- Original Message -----
From: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@home.com>
To: <WaynLinda@aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: soldering


> What I do:
>
> I unroll enough solder so it's sticking straight out from the roll.
> I hold the suncatcher or what ever I want an edge bead on upright with
> one hand.  With the other hand, I hold my iron tip under the tip of
> solder and load my tip with solder.  Then I take it to the fluxed edge
> and tap that solder on.  Repeat...repeat repeat repeat.  I wipe the edge
> off, reflux, then tap solder around to smooth any rough spots.
>
> You can see an example of a finished fan lamp that I soldered around
> like that here;
>
> http://www.villagesoftsmith.com/glassdancer/YoughFan.jpg
>
> Suzanne



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From owner-glass Thu Nov  8 08:43:28 2001
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: soldering
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:16:27 -0500
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Message text written by INTERNET:WaynLinda@aol.com
>Here is the problem: When you are soldering and you come to the outside
edge, =

the solder just runs out and you can't get a "bead" I have tried putting =
a =

scrap piece of glass there, but lots of times, the scrap glass doesn't fi=
t =

tight enough ....for example if it is an inside corner. Then I go over it=
 =

again and again and you know that doesn't work! I hope you can understand=

the =

"problem"<

Either learn to love the non-bead outside edge look,
or you can put a thin gague copper wire around the
outside edge.  The wire will help create the bead.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  8 15:18:09 2001
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X-Path: writingmachine.com!ClaireF
From: Claire Fuller <ClaireF@writingmachine.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: soldering
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 17:29:11 -0000 
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@writingmachine.com>
Precedence: bulk

I, probably like everyone, was taught that you had to bead a small piece of
copperfoil work. I never really got to the bottom of why. I don't bead my
work anymore, I quite like the flat effect, and the fact that both sides can
be the front. Why bead at all?

Claire

Claire Fuller
Writing Machine
Tel: 01962841250
Fax: 01962 870558
www.writingmachine.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Christie A. Wood [mailto:Ensembles@compuserve.com]
Sent: 08 November 2001 13:16
To: Bungi
Subject: soldering


Message text written by INTERNET:WaynLinda@aol.com
>Here is the problem: When you are soldering and you come to the outside
edge, =

the solder just runs out and you can't get a "bead" I have tried putting =
a =

scrap piece of glass there, but lots of times, the scrap glass doesn't fi=
t =

tight enough ....for example if it is an inside corner. Then I go over it=
 =

again and again and you know that doesn't work! I hope you can understand=

the =

"problem"<

Either learn to love the non-bead outside edge look,
or you can put a thin gague copper wire around the
outside edge.  The wire will help create the bead.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  8 23:18:24 2001
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From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: <ClaireF@writingmachine.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: RE: soldering
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 19:32:03 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

The question was why do you or should you bead copper foil work on both sides??? Strength!!!!! by not beading your work it is very weak and could fall apart at any given time.The purpose of beading is to put the glass between an "H" channel of solder just like a piece of lead for strength.I do this as a profession and take pride in the fact that my work will be around for a long time,a lot longer than I will be around thats for sure.You might use less solder but in time it will tell,just like all of the foreign lamps that come into my shop for repair,most have failed due to poor structure and no re-enforcement what so ever.
If you are going to do something might as well do it Right!!
Stan
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  8 23:33:03 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: Claire Fuller <ClaireF@writingmachine.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: soldering
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:44:45 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
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Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

Why bead?

Here is my opinion.

There may be a strength issue.  I dont *know* that there is, but I
certainly suspect that a copper foiled panel or suncatcher that is only
flat soldered is not as strong as one that is soldered on *both* sides
with a nice bead.  

As far as Im concerned a copper foiled peice that is only soldered on
one side, and only tinned on the other is not finished, and looks to me
as though the person making it was just lazy.

My house had two stained glass windows in the dining room when I bought
it.  They werent my taste.  I built two windows to replace those.

When I took the original two out, I was disapointed to find they were
only finished on one side.  I had planned to give them to family members
or friends that might have wanted them.

I think it's a real mistake for someone to think that once a stained
glass window is installed, it will always be installed.  I *could*
finish those sides, but those sides werent even cleaned up. :o( 

Ever try to clean up a panel that was worked on 15-20 years ago that
wasnt cleaned up after cementing? (this was both leaded and foiled)

 BAD craftsmanship as far as Im concerned and in my opinion those two
panels are worthless.  Want em?  Come get em. You can have em.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  9 00:02:13 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: Claire Fuller <ClaireF@writingmachine.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: soldering
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:44:45 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@writingmachine.com>>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

Why bead?

Here is my opinion.

There may be a strength issue.  I dont *know* that there is, but I
certainly suspect that a copper foiled panel or suncatcher that is only
flat soldered is not as strong as one that is soldered on *both* sides
with a nice bead.  

As far as Im concerned a copper foiled peice that is only soldered on
one side, and only tinned on the other is not finished, and looks to me
as though the person making it was just lazy.

My house had two stained glass windows in the dining room when I bought
it.  They werent my taste.  I built two windows to replace those.

When I took the original two out, I was disapointed to find they were
only finished on one side.  I had planned to give them to family members
or friends that might have wanted them.

I think it's a real mistake for someone to think that once a stained
glass window is installed, it will always be installed.  I *could*
finish those sides, but those sides werent even cleaned up. :o( 

Ever try to clean up a panel that was worked on 15-20 years ago that
wasnt cleaned up after cementing? (this was both leaded and foiled)

 BAD craftsmanship as far as Im concerned and in my opinion those two
panels are worthless.  Want em?  Come get em. You can have em.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  9 00:04:31 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: another flux I like
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:54:22 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

I also really like Canfields Blue Glass Flux.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  9 01:33:00 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: soldering
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:18:28 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

Thanks.  You *can* get a good edge bead.
I prefer canfield solder.  Usually use 60/40.
Lately Ive been using classic paste flux.  Mainly using that cause
that's what we had at work, so it was the cheapest for me.  

Suzanne

Elaine wrote:
> 
> Suzanne,
> That fan lamp is impressive! If you don't mind me asking, what solder and
> flux do you use? Thanks, Elaine
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@home.com>
> To: <WaynLinda@aol.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 1:18 PM
> Subject: Re: soldering
> 
> > What I do:
> >
> > I unroll enough solder so it's sticking straight out from the roll.
> > I hold the suncatcher or what ever I want an edge bead on upright with
> > one hand.  With the other hand, I hold my iron tip under the tip of
> > solder and load my tip with solder.  Then I take it to the fluxed edge
> > and tap that solder on.  Repeat...repeat repeat repeat.  I wipe the edge
> > off, reflux, then tap solder around to smooth any rough spots.
> >
> > You can see an example of a finished fan lamp that I soldered around
> > like that here;
> >
> > http://www.villagesoftsmith.com/glassdancer/YoughFan.jpg
> >
> > Suzanne
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  9 05:35:14 2001
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Soldering
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 07:18:47 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 11/9/2001 2:21:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
Beveler4@aol.com writes:

<< The purpose of beading is to put the glass between an "H" channel of 
solder just like a piece of lead for strength >>

It's more than just an H channel.  Imagine how easy it would be to bend a 
flat piece of lead (solder line) into a V, now think how hard it would be to 
bend a half circle the same way.  The bead on both sides acts as a stop 
against bending in either direction.  

Pat
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  9 10:00:54 2001
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From: CUngv@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: lead-free soldering?
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 08:18:47 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

I work in my basement.  I have three children, the youngest is 18 months.  
They are not permitted in the basement.  I completely gave up stained glass 
while I was pregnant and breast-feeding, but am back at it now.

I recently read a series of articles on lead poisoning, and even though my 
kids have all been tested (me too) and we don't have elevated lead levels, I 
am considering switching to lead-free solder.  The so-called "safe" level 
seems to be getting lower all the time.

I know it is more expensive, but what other differences are there?  Is anyone 
out there using it all the time, other than for jewelry?  I usually make 
items such as panels, lamps and boxes.  What is the general consensus? Is it 
more difficult to work with?  Prohibitively expensive?  I have a rheostat, so 
temperature adjustments are not an issue.  I would appreciate hearing from 
someone with experience.

Carolyn Gilinsky

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From owner-glass Fri Nov  9 15:34:19 2001
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X-Path: doorpi.net!mmam5
From: mmam5@doorpi.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Fw: Re: soldering
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 15:52:03 EST
Message-ID: <200111092052.fA9Kq8n51184@mail1.netacc.net>
Precedence: bulk

Why Bead?

Isn't that one of the points of doing copper foiled work! Strength, beauty,


ability to solder?  Some of my first work was just awful, but after really
getting into Stained Glass, I quickly resoldered those simple projects and
now take great pride in a seamless bead line!

Marci

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:44:45 -0600 Suzanne Gunn wrote:

Why bead? 

Here is my opinion. 

There may be a strength issue.	I dont *know* that there is, but I 

certainly suspect that a copper foiled panel or suncatcher that is only
flat soldered is not as strong as one that is soldered on *both* sides with
a nice bead. 

As far as Im concerned a copper foiled peice that is only soldered on one
side, and only tinned on the other is not finished, and looks to me as
though the person making it was just lazy. 

My house had two stained glass windows in the dining room when I bought it.
 They werent my taste.	I built two windows to replace those. 

When I took the original two out, I was disapointed to find they were only
finished on one side.  I had planned to give them to family members or
friends that might have wanted them. 

I think it's a real mistake for someone to think that once a stained glass
window is installed, it will always be installed.  I *could* finish those
sides, but those sides werent even cleaned up. :o( 

Ever try to clean up a panel that was worked on 15-20 years ago that wasnt
cleaned up after cementing? (this was both leaded and foiled) 

BAD craftsmanship as far as Im concerned and in my opinion those two panels
are worthless.	Want em?  Come get em. You can have em. 

Suzanne 
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  9 20:31:02 2001
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From: Patty.McMaster@fbol.com
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Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 12:47:21 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@fbol.com>
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Does anyone know where I can get slumped fruit ?
(making cabinet doors )
I know I need apples & pears
The shop close to me charges $5. something a piece

             Have a great day





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From owner-glass Fri Nov  9 22:03:24 2001
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: CUngv@aol.com, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: lead-free soldering?
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:50:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

Certainly you can do all the things you were doing with lead free solder.  You
probably get the idea the many of us don't like it and think it is harder to
use.  That's true, but not because it's bad - it's just VERY different.  Think
of the difference between fresh/frozen peas and canned peas.  Aside from being
spherical, you'd be hard put to know that they are both the same thing!  I'm
told by people with your same concerns who use the leadfree solder that after
they get used to it, they like it. - Cec

CUngv@aol.com wrote:

> I work in my basement.  I have three children, the youngest is 18 months.
> They are not permitted in the basement.  I completely gave up stained glass
> while I was pregnant and breast-feeding, but am back at it now.
>
> I recently read a series of articles on lead poisoning, and even though my
> kids have all been tested (me too) and we don't have elevated lead levels, I
> am considering switching to lead-free solder.  The so-called "safe" level
> seems to be getting lower all the time.
>
> I know it is more expensive, but what other differences are there?  Is anyone
> out there using it all the time, other than for jewelry?  I usually make
> items such as panels, lamps and boxes.  What is the general consensus? Is it
> more difficult to work with?  Prohibitively expensive?  I have a rheostat, so
> temperature adjustments are not an issue.  I would appreciate hearing from
> someone with experience.
>
> Carolyn Gilinsky
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri Nov  9 23:36:43 2001
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Subject: fumes
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 16:45:43 -0700
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I usually don't do a lot of soldering at one time but last week I had the 
opportunity to catch up on project so I went at it most of the afternoon. 
By the end of the day I had a headache from the soldering fumes. I have a 
fan in the room but I try not to have to directed directly at me as it 
seems to effect the soldering lines by "drying" it too quickly. Isn't there 
some type of fume catcher that I can use and how do they work?

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 10 20:31:12 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: lead-free soldering?
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:53:10 -0500
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Message text written by INTERNET:CUngv@aol.com
>I know it is more expensive, but what other differences are there?  Is
anyone =

out there using it all the time, other than for jewelry?  I usually make =

items such as panels, lamps and boxes.  What is the general consensus? Is=

it =

more difficult to work with?  Prohibitively expensive?  I have a rheostat=
,
so =

temperature adjustments are not an issue.  I would appreciate hearing fro=
m =

someone with experience.<

I've worked with lead-free solder while teaching a
class in a church's fellowship hall.  It takes more
heat in order to get it to flow well.  And it doesn't
look as shiney as regular 60/40.  Other than that...
no problems.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 10 20:31:45 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: slumped fruit
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:53:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
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Message text written by INTERNET:Patty.McMaster@fbol.com
>Does anyone know where I can get slumped fruit ?
(making cabinet doors )
I know I need apples & pears
The shop close to me charges $5. something a piece<

Then buy it from them.  We all purchase the slumped
fruit from the same manufacturer.  If you don't want to pay
$5/piece, you can make your own molds and slump them
yourself in a kiln.  But that's way more expensive than the
$5/piece.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 10 22:02:47 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: fumes
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:53:16 -0500
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Message text written by Lorley Oneyear
>Isn't there =

some type of fume catcher that I can use and how do they work?<

Yes...Inland makes a fume catcher which is a tiny
fan-driven motor which sucks the fumes away from
your soldering area and through a filter.  The fume
trap is SMALL, so you have to place it directly in the
area where you are soldering, then move it around
as you move your soldering.  And it's not terribly
effective.  I resold mine.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 11 11:58:53 2001
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: fumes
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:57:52 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<5.1.0.14.2.20011109164247.00a6be20@mail>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

Is it possible to set the fan close to you but blowing away from you?  That
should also generate an airflow - but not so intense. - Cec

Lorley Oneyear wrote:

> I usually don't do a lot of soldering at one time but last week I had the
> opportunity to catch up on project so I went at it most of the afternoon.
> By the end of the day I had a headache from the soldering fumes. I have a
> fan in the room but I try not to have to directed directly at me as it
> seems to effect the soldering lines by "drying" it too quickly. Isn't there
> some type of fume catcher that I can use and how do they work?

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 11 13:32:14 2001
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From: "Moya O'Neal" <moya.oneal@verizon.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Fume trap
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:40:16 -0500
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Lorley,
Yes, almost every stained glass retailer with a catalog has the fume =
traps.  I highly recommend them.  They run about $50 I think, but your =
health is very much worth it!
You can check any of the on-line catalogs like =
www.anythinginstainedglass.com, www.Delphiglass.com, www.SGW.net, =
www.warner-criv.com. I am pretty sure all of them carry the fume trap.
Moya

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C16AAE.041ABF00
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Lorley,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Yes, almost every stained glass retailer with a =
catalog=20
has the fume traps.&nbsp; I highly recommend them.&nbsp; They run about =
$50 I=20
think, but your health is very much worth it!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>You can check any of the on-line catalogs like =
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.anythinginstainedglass.com">www.anythinginstainedglass=
.com</A>,=20
<A href=3D"http://www.Delphiglass.com">www.Delphiglass.com</A>, <A=20
href=3D"http://www.SGW.net">www.SGW.net</A>, <A=20
href=3D"http://www.warner-criv.com">www.warner-criv.com</A>. I am pretty =
sure all=20
of them carry the fume trap.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Moya</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 11 14:51:19 2001
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Subject: fumes....
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:31:49 EST
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Since it was time for blood tests...ahhh, vampires...I asked the Doctor for 
Lead test as well, since I only have a fan facing away from me while I solder 
(not towards me).
Well, since I solder everyday, lo and behold, the test was extremely low. So 
perhaps, you guys that were thinking of something to take the fumes away, a 
fan might do just as well.
Nancy

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Since it was time for blood tests...ahhh, vampires...I asked the Doctor for Lead test as well, since I only have a fan facing away from me while I solder (not towards me).
<BR>Well, since I solder everyday, lo and behold, the test was extremely low. So perhaps, you guys that were thinking of something to take the fumes away, a fan might do just as well.
<BR>Nancy</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 11 20:38:04 2001
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X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: "synergy glass" <seaspray@island.net>
To: "Lorley Oneyear" <lorley@home.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: fumes
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:10:59 -0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@island.net>
References: <<5.1.0.14.2.20011109164247.00a6be20@mail>>
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It's best to have a system that vents directly outside if you're doing a lot
of soldering.  However, if you're using a fan it works well if you place it
close to your work on the far side of the table from where you're working,
and have it directed AWAY from you.  That way any fumes are sucked right off
the table, and a constant supply of fresh air is coming in around you from
over your shoulders.  Of course you also need to have a window open so all
the air sucked off the table has a place to go.

Carol

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lorley Oneyear" <lorley@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 3:45 PM
Subject: fumes


> I usually don't do a lot of soldering at one time but last week I had the
> opportunity to catch up on project so I went at it most of the afternoon.
> By the end of the day I had a headache from the soldering fumes. I have a
> fan in the room but I try not to have to directed directly at me as it
> seems to effect the soldering lines by "drying" it too quickly. Isn't
there
> some type of fume catcher that I can use and how do they work?
>

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 12 02:44:09 2001
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K" <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Lorley Oneyear" <lorley@home.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: fumes
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 02:12:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@softhouse.com>
References: <<5.1.0.14.2.20011109164247.00a6be20@mail>>
Precedence: bulk

I use a Sunbeam air-purifier from the local hardware store.  Think it
was about $40 on sale, hepa filter cost $30 but only needed once a year
or so.  Has 3 speeds, high speed is a bit loud, medium is strong enough
to pull all the fumes thru the machine when doing a small/med panel.
Shop around, some of brands cost up to $200.  Nice thing about mine is
the air-draw is in the front, goes through the filter and exits out at
the top back edge.

Karen
giapet@softhouse.com

> I usually don't do a lot of soldering at one time but last week I had
the
> opportunity to catch up on project so I went at it most of the
afternoon.
> By the end of the day I had a headache from the soldering fumes. I
have a
> fan in the room but I try not to have to directed directly at me as it
> seems to effect the soldering lines by "drying" it too quickly. Isn't
there
> some type of fume catcher that I can use and how do they work?
>


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From owner-glass Mon Nov 12 09:57:47 2001
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From: "Jerri" <pigznpawz@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: slumped fruit
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 07:27:12 -0500
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Whittemore Durgin used to carry the slumped fruit.  I don't have a recent
catalog to know if they still do, but you can go to their web site and get a
catalog:

http://www.penrose.com/glass/catalog.exe?html=index.html^uid=1005477869^uniq
=1005477888

Jerri



Subject: slumped fruit


> Message text written by INTERNET:Patty.McMaster@fbol.com
> >Does anyone know where I can get slumped fruit ?
> (making cabinet doors )
> I know I need apples & pears
> The shop close to me charges $5. something a piece<
>



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From owner-glass Mon Nov 12 10:27:23 2001
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From: "Mike & Linda Campbell" <swamper@exis.net>
To: "Bungi Glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: lead-free soldering?
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:14:28 -0500
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I won some lead free solder a year or so ago in a local shop's drawing. I
had occassion to use it for a picture frame that was to go in a babies room.
I absolutely LOVED the way it worked. Nice bead and absolutly NO sputter of
the flux. I'll definately use it again.

Linda Campbell

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 13 17:27:55 2001
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X-Path: writingmachine.com!ClaireF
From: Claire Fuller <ClaireF@writingmachine.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Re: soldering
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:55:00 -0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@writingmachine.com>
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ok,ok, everyone, I promise to bead from now on! :) I can only apologise, for
perhaps a poor lesson in beading. The strength issue was never really
explained to me. But beading on both sides, or even one, makes a lot more
sense now.

Thanks

Claire

Claire Fuller
Writing Machine
Tel: 01962841250
Fax: 01962 870558
www.writingmachine.com


-----Original Message-----
From: mmam5@doorpi.net [mailto:mmam5@doorpi.net]
Sent: 09 November 2001 20:52
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Fw: Re: soldering


Why Bead?

Isn't that one of the points of doing copper foiled work! Strength, beauty,


ability to solder?  Some of my first work was just awful, but after really
getting into Stained Glass, I quickly resoldered those simple projects and
now take great pride in a seamless bead line!

Marci

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:44:45 -0600 Suzanne Gunn wrote:

Why bead? 

Here is my opinion. 

There may be a strength issue.	I dont *know* that there is, but I 

certainly suspect that a copper foiled panel or suncatcher that is only
flat soldered is not as strong as one that is soldered on *both* sides with
a nice bead. 

As far as Im concerned a copper foiled peice that is only soldered on one
side, and only tinned on the other is not finished, and looks to me as
though the person making it was just lazy. 

My house had two stained glass windows in the dining room when I bought it.
 They werent my taste.	I built two windows to replace those. 

When I took the original two out, I was disapointed to find they were only
finished on one side.  I had planned to give them to family members or
friends that might have wanted them. 

I think it's a real mistake for someone to think that once a stained glass
window is installed, it will always be installed.  I *could* finish those
sides, but those sides werent even cleaned up. :o( 

Ever try to clean up a panel that was worked on 15-20 years ago that wasnt
cleaned up after cementing? (this was both leaded and foiled) 

BAD craftsmanship as far as Im concerned and in my opinion those two panels
are worthless.	Want em?  Come get em. You can have em. 

Suzanne 
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 13 18:00:41 2001
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From: "Becker, Donna" <DF125031@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: fumes....
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:42:27 -0500
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It's not the solder fumes that cause lead poisoning, is it?  I thought it
was from touching the lead and then transferring that to food, etc. thereby
ingesting lead.  The fumes are from the flux and cause other issues, such as
cancer, tumors, headaches, etc.  Is this a false assumption on my part?  I
use a fan to draw the fumes away, and I use rubber gloves when I solder (200
gloves at Costco for $10) to keep the lead from coming in contact with my
skin.  It also keeps the flux off my skin, since it seems to mess up my
skin..  When I wash and wax the final piece I make sure I wash my hands
afterwards.  I also use the gloves when grinding, which saves my hands (they
get kind of rough).
Could someone set me straight.

Donna Becker
Senior Consultant II
Office  630-469-5726
Cell 630-248-0184
donna.becker@chicagoil.ncr.com



-----Original Message-----
From: NJDKJD@aol.com [mailto:NJDKJD@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 3:32 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: fumes....



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Since it was time for blood tests...ahhh, vampires...I asked the Doctor for 
Lead test as well, since I only have a fan facing away from me while I
solder 
(not towards me).
Well, since I solder everyday, lo and behold, the test was extremely low. So

perhaps, you guys that were thinking of something to take the fumes away, a 
fan might do just as well.
Nancy

--part1_171.3c1fbd3.29204845_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Since it was time for blood
tests...ahhh, vampires...I asked the Doctor for Lead test as well, since I
only have a fan facing away from me while I solder (not towards me).
<BR>Well, since I solder everyday, lo and behold, the test was extremely
low. So perhaps, you guys that were thinking of something to take the fumes
away, a fan might do just as well.
<BR>Nancy</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 13 22:00:28 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
Subject: Re: glass racks
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:23:04 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@juno.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Peggy
        Glass racks should be made with the sizes of glass that are
manufactured in mind.  You may not be buying full sheets, but half
sheets are related to the full sheet dimensions.  E.g.. Spectrum sheets
are about 20 - 24 inches wide and 48 inches high.  Then you want to add
a little to that, say 2 inches, to make the insertion and removal of
glass sheets easy.
        So, I'd suggest some rack sizes of about 26 inches high.  Of
course, you will buy smaller pieces, and the large pieces will get
smaller, so you need smaller racks too.  My racks halve in size, going
from 50 inches, to 26 inches, to 14 inches to 8 inches (so all right, I
am not completely consistent.)  The large racks are 42 inches deep, the
26 inch ones are 36 inches deep and the others are between 18 and 12
inches.
        Now, the width of the racks needs consideration.  The two main
factors here seem to me to be how much glass in the large sizes are you
going to be storing? and how will the glass rest against its neighbours?
In general, you do not want to be creating more storage than you need,
so think carefully about your storage requirements. And the amount of
space you can devote to storage rather than work space.  If you are
thinking of spaces for larger glass, you need to think of relatively
small spaces.  My 50 inches spaces are only about 3 inches wide, while
the 14 and 8 inch high ones are about a foot wide.  This is because the
weight of the glass has to be considered. 10- 15 full sheets of spectrum
weigh a lot!  The glass is resting on its neighbours and so transmitting
that weight.  So there is a kind of inverse proportion to the height and
width of the rack.  The higher, the narrower the rack needs to be.  The
number of racks of any size you need will be determined by your space,
the stock, and the need to get your hand into the rack opening without
cutting your fingers, or compressing the glass.
        Make sure you have racks of differing heights.  Storing small
pieces with large pieces is a sure way of breaking the large pieces.
The small pieces also get pushed to the back, and cause breakages when
you push another piece against the unseen small one.
        If you make your racks of substantial material, you can stack
them (but not higher than your head!).  Always put a strong back on
these racks for stability.  Also consider fastening them to the wall
with substantial bolts.
        I have found it necessary to have a soft material on the floor
at the edge of the glass racks to avoid breaking the glass when pulling
it out and accidentally letting it sit on the floor.  Currently, I use a
linoleum strip.  For smaller pieces stored higher, I use the ledge
formed by the lower and longer rack.
        And you will still need those boxes for the pieces too small for
the racks!
        I hope this covers some of your concerns.

        Now, for your kiln.  It's a big one, isn't it?  I won't go into
the stuff about kiln furniture, pyrometers, etc.  Instead, I suggest you
go to www.warmglass.com for lots of information.  You could also buy
Brad Walker's very good book, Warm Glass (you will find information
about it on the site).
        The kiln is a fire hazard (small but definite).  So It must be
away from inflammable materials, it must have "ventilation" space all
around it.  You will also need space around the kiln to use the various
controls and viewing ports. Nothing that could ignite should be above
it. In placing it in the studio, you should consider the warmth it will
give you in the winter, and overpowering heat it will cause in the
summer.  So you need a means of ventilating the space or area the kiln
operates in.
        Again, you should go to www.warmglass.com for lots of
information on kilns.  Much of this is for fusing, but is still
applicable to painting, especially safety, equipment and controls.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@juno.com>, Peggy L Kinnetz
<pkinnetz@juno.com> writes
..cut...
>
>The size of glass rack that was recommended in The Stained Glass
>Workshop, published by Arthur Brown, is 25 in. high by 20 in. depth, by
>unspecified length, with 8" spaces for the glass.  To my mind, the both
>the height and width are a mite small.  I was thinking about 28" - 30"
>high, by 24 " deep. Does this seem about right, or would you go with the
>smaller size that was recomended in the book? The 8 " spacing seems OK,
>but if someone has any thoughts to the contrary, please share.   And how
>many spaces would you suggest for a small studio (parttime, not
>fulltime). Right now, I have my glass separated by color (white/clear;
>brown/amber; greens; blues; reds/oranges/yellows; grays/black; specialty)
>in lots of cardboard boxes on the floor.  Eight spaces would probably be
>the minimum I'd need, if I follow this same organizational schema. I'd
>really be interested in everyone's opinions about glass racks, like do
>you like what you have, and what size would be your ideal? 
>
>I guess while I'm at it, does anyone have any thoughts on the placement
>of a ceramic kiln (octagonal, about 24" D. by about 3 1/2' Ht.).  I got
>this secondhand, to try my hand at stained glass painting.  I know close
>to nothing about kilns. 
>
>Peggy K. 
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 13 22:04:46 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
Subject: Re: fumes
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:49:12 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<5.1.0.14.2.20011109164247.00a6be20@mail>>
Precedence: bulk

You need to take the fumes away from yourself.
Check on the flux you are using.  Some are more full of noxious
chemicals/smoke than others.  I tend to use tallow for both lead and
copper foil.  It works in both cases.  Tallow gives off a particular
smell and some smoke, but does not bother me with headaches, etc.
Lots of ventilation is needed what ever flux you use.
        I'm not really sure that the desk top fume boxes really do much
and are very expensive.  Much better to get extraction, combined with a
fresh air supply.
Steve

In message <5.1.0.14.2.20011109164247.00a6be20@mail>, Lorley Oneyear
<lorley@home.com> writes
>I usually don't do a lot of soldering at one time but last week I had the 
>opportunity to catch up on project so I went at it most of the afternoon. 
>By the end of the day I had a headache from the soldering fumes. I have a 
>fan in the room but I try not to have to directed directly at me as it 
>seems to effect the soldering lines by "drying" it too quickly. Isn't there 
>some type of fume catcher that I can use and how do they work?

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 13 22:14:08 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: CUngv@aol.com
Subject: Re: making wooden frames for panels
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:31:09 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

A simple strong frame is to use what I call lap joints at the four
corners.  You cut the timber so it is half its thickness for the
distance that is equal to the width of the timber. You do the same side
for each end of the parallel sides.  The two sides at right angles to
the first pair of sides is cut with the eliminated timber on the
opposite side to the first pair.  So, when placed together they are the
same thickness as the single piece of timber.  You then glue and screw
them together from the back.  This forms a strong joint so the panel can
be hung from the timber.  (It is not very good at staying square, so is
not used in picture framing, but the glass panel will keep the frame
square, so it doesn't matter).

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>, CUngv@aol.com writes
>I have several panels in need of frames.  I wonder if anyone out their makes 
>their own?  I am aware of two companies that sell frame kits.  One is 
>Northern Hardwoods Framing and the other is a pop-lock system. I like the 
>Northern Hardwoods type frames better, mainly because I prefer the mitered 
>corners, but the pop-lock system, with the holes through the front and back 
>and attached with a peg, might be easier to make.  I just don't like seeing 
>the plugs in the corners from the front.
>
>In any event, I have basic woodworking tools available, e.g., table saw, 
>drill press, router table.  Can anyone give me any tips on an easy way to 
>make wood frames that would not require more than beginning woodworking 
>skills?
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 13 22:18:50 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Subject: Annealing (was: Broken pieces
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 21:42:00 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>>
Precedence: bulk

I know it was not Christie's intention to give detailed information on
annealing, but I want to make a correction in the information about
annealing.
        Each glass has its own annealing point dependent upon the
particular combinations of materials in the glass.  This point is the
temperature at which the glass can align its molecules to eliminate most
of the stress in the glass.  Cooling too quickly at this point can leave
a lot of stress in the glass that will eventually cause the glass to
break.
        The annealing temperatures of most art glasses is between about
600 degrees Celsius ( I don't know the Fahrenheit equivalent) and 500
degrees.  (I think Spectrum is about 510, but my memory is such that I
have a reference book for the annealing temperatures of each glass that
I heat.)  
        Above the annealing point you can reduce the temperature as fast
as possible.  In fact you should reduce the temperature from about 750 C
to 600C as fast as possible to avoid the devitrification that occurs in
that temperature range.  Below the lower strain point, about 30 degrees
below the annealing point, it is not possible to relieve the stresses in
the glass.  So the annealing point is the optimum temperature at which
to reduce stress.  The amount of time you hold the heat there depends on
thickness of the glass, and the characteristics of the kiln.
        The rate of cooling of the glass from the annealing point to
room temperature depends on the size and thickness of the glass.  It has
been calculated that an 8" thick piece of glass would take about three
months to cool from its annealing temperature.  Normally a 1/4 inch
piece would take a few hours, maybe 6 to 8.
        If you do not know the annealing temperature for the glass you
are using, contact the manufacturer, use their web site or contact the
Warm glass site (I think www.warmglass.com).  If you cannot find out the
annealing point you can do a shotgun approach.  That is, you choose an
average point, say 540 C, and take the temperature slowly down to 500 C.
Slowly should be less than 30 C  per hour for 6mm (1/4 inch) glass. This
means that you will pass through the annealing point slowly enough for
the glass to anneal.  There are also tests to help determine the general
region of the annealing temperature. (I have posted this to the list in
the past).

So, apologies to those for whom this was just too much information.  But
there is lots more of this stuff or Brad's warm glass site.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>, Christie A. Wood
<Ensembles@compuserve.com> writes
>Message text written by Karen Palmer
>>Thanks so much for the information.  I had no idea that Y. glass
>could be problematic.  What exactly is annealed?  Is that the
>process where it is heated?<
>
>Annealing is the very gradual lowering of temperature from the
>glass's melting point (1500-2000 degrees) back down to room
>temperature.  Annealing takes several hours, as the process is
>deliberately slow.  It is easy to introduce stress into the glass if the
>annealing is done too quickly through certain temperatures (900
>down to 700 degrees is a common stress point).
>
>The problems I had with 2 sheets of a specific color of Youghiogheny
>glass were a one-time only type thing.  Youghiogheny glass is
>generally not problematic for cutting due to improper annealing.
>I just had some problems with that grape/ice glass Y1300RG one
>time - bad batch of glass.  However, warming up Youghiogheny glass
>prior to cutting DOES make cutting this type glass MUCH easier.
>Cutting cold Youghiogheny glass in a cold basement on a cold
>winter's day is a sure-fire way to get nice Youghiogheny shards.
>
>Christie A. Wood
>Art Glass Ensembles
>Denton, TX
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 14 11:10:43 2001
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X-Path: home.com!bobfuses
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobfuses@home.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: fumes....
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:07:10 -0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com>>
Precedence: bulk

> Could someone set me straight.<

Nope! You have got it straight right now.

Bob in 92026

----- Original Message -----
From: "Becker, Donna" <DF125031@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 11:42 AM
Subject: RE: fumes....


> It's not the solder fumes that cause lead poisoning, is it?  I thought it
> was from touching the lead and then transferring that to food, etc.
thereby
> ingesting lead.  The fumes are from the flux and cause other issues, such
as
> cancer, tumors, headaches, etc.  Is this a false assumption on my part?  I
> use a fan to draw the fumes away, and I use rubber gloves when I solder
(200
> gloves at Costco for $10) to keep the lead from coming in contact with my
> skin.  It also keeps the flux off my skin, since it seems to mess up my
> skin..  When I wash and wax the final piece I make sure I wash my hands
> afterwards.  I also use the gloves when grinding, which saves my hands
(they
> get kind of rough).
> Could someone set me straight.
>
> Donna Becker


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From owner-glass Wed Nov 14 11:12:30 2001
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X-Path: mindspring.com!rcollins1
From: Bob Collins <rcollins1@mindspring.com>
To: NJDKJD@aol.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Re: fumes....
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:54:47 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Organization: CSC, Inc.
Precedence: bulk


--------------5F42C9676674E5CC2DD36E2E
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've done glass for 12 years now. I've had a air filter for the last
Hmmmmm 8 years. 8 months ago I was diagnosed with Leukemia and I cann't
think of any other chemicals that I have been exposed too in my life
cept the fumes from working with glass. I'd say a filter is a cheap life
saver for you that are starting out.

    Bob

NJDKJD@aol.com wrote:

> Since it was time for blood tests...ahhh, vampires...I asked the
> Doctor for Lead test as well, since I only have a fan facing away from
> me while I solder (not towards me).
> Well, since I solder everyday, lo and behold, the test was extremely
> low. So perhaps, you guys that were thinking of something to take the
> fumes away, a fan might do just as well.
> Nancy

--------------5F42C9676674E5CC2DD36E2E
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
I've done glass for 12 years now. I've had a air filter for the last Hmmmmm
8 years. 8 months ago I was diagnosed with Leukemia and I cann't think
of any other chemicals that I have been exposed too in my life cept the
fumes from working with glass. I'd say a filter is a cheap life saver for
you that are starting out.
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Bob
<p>NJDKJD@aol.com wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Since
it was time for blood tests...ahhh, vampires...I asked the Doctor for Lead
test as well, since I only have a fan facing away from me while I solder
(not towards me).</font></font>
<br><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Well, since I solder everyday,
lo and behold, the test was extremely low. So perhaps, you guys that were
thinking of something to take the fumes away, a fan might do just as well.</font></font>
<br><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Nancy</font></font></blockquote>
</html>

--------------5F42C9676674E5CC2DD36E2E--

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 14 13:00:53 2001
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X-Path: thezone.net!robertcrane
From: "Robert Crane" <robertcrane@thezone.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: design help
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:20:22 -0330
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@thezone.net>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C16D30.A46DC680
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Anyone know of sites on the net where I might see windows which have =
incooperated praying hands into its theme? Thanks in anticipation.


------------------------------------
Make Unlimited phone calls from your PC to ANY phone in the World!
http://www.eboom.com/free/

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C16D30.A46DC680
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyone know of sites on the net where I =
might see=20
windows which have incooperated<STRONG> praying hands</STRONG> into its =
theme?=20
Thanks in anticipation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>------------------------------------<BR>Make=20
Unlimited phone calls from your PC to ANY phone in the World!<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.eboom.com/free/">http://www.eboom.com/free/</A></FONT>=
</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 14 17:00:55 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: praying hands etc...
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:47:08 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

For the person who asked about praying hands...
Bovard has a neat book out called "windows for the soul". It's a good
read, with lots of beautiful pictures of some of their installations.

The studio where I used to work purchased several of their medallions.


http://www.bovardstudio.com/index.html
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 14 17:32:20 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
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Subject: Re: design help
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:40:38 -0600
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Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

Most Ive seen with praying hands have used painted glass, usually from 
Bovard Studios.

Suzanne

Robert Crane wrote:
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: Bob Duchesneau <bobfuses@home.com>
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Subject: Re: fumes....
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:39:41 -0600
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What ever Bob says.  ;o)


Bob Duchesneau wrote:
> 
> > Could someone set me straight.<
> 
> Nope! You have got it straight right now.
> 
> Bob in 92026
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 14 21:30:55 2001
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Subject: flesh
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:56:01 -0700
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Anyone recommend a good glass that would be closest to flesh colored?

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 15 06:01:16 2001
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Hi,
To the lady who wanted to know what to use for skin color. I use =
Wissmach glass.  It is called Solid Pale Pink Opal. No. P-51DD  I get it =
at (Ed Hoy's international) i use it for all my skin color projects.  =
Hope this helps you out.  On my web site, look at the Jesus, or the =
Statue Of  Liberty, face, arms, hands, & feet. You can see it at the web =
site   www.stainedglasslamps.com
Mary=20
 =20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>To the lady who wanted to know what =
to use for=20
skin color. I use Wissmach glass.&nbsp; It is called Solid Pale Pink =
Opal.=20
</FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>No. P-51DD&nbsp; I get it at (Ed =
Hoy's=20
international) i use it for all my skin color projects.&nbsp; Hope this =
helps=20
you out.&nbsp; On my web site, look at the Jesus, or the Statue Of&nbsp; =

Liberty, face, arms, hands, &amp; feet. You can see it at the web=20
site&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.stainedglasslamps.com">www.stainedglasslamps.com</A></=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>Mary&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D4>&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 15 07:03:22 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: flesh
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:35:59 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<5.1.0.14.2.20011114205449.00a78720@mail>>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

Spectrum peach if you want caucasian, they have a good one for Native
American too, dont know the name or number, but I have yet to find a
good one for African American.

Suzanne

Lorley Oneyear wrote:
> 
> Anyone recommend a good glass that would be closest to flesh colored?
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 15 07:30:20 2001
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From: "Stained Glass Lamps" <stainedglasslamps@csinet.net>
To: "Lorley Oneyear" <lorley@home.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: flesh
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:16:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@csinet.net>
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Hi,
I use Wissmach glass.  It is called Solid Pale Pink Opal.
No. P-51DD  I get it at (Ed Hoy's International) I use it for all my skin
color projects.  Hope this helps you out.  On my web site look at the Jesus,
or the Statue Of Liberty, face, arms, hands, & feet. You can see it at the
web site  www.stainedglasslamps.com
Mary
-----Original Message-----
From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, November 15, 2001 12:41 AM
Subject: flesh


>Anyone recommend a good glass that would be closest to flesh colored?
>

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 15 08:01:37 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: flesh-colored glass
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:04:40 -0500
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Message text written by Lorley Oneyear
>Anyone recommend a good glass that would be closest to flesh colored?<

GNA (Desag) makes a couple of very nice flesh-colored glasses.  One is
slightly darker than the other, so you can get nice shading too.  GNA#606=
3
& 6156.  I get mine from Hollanders in Houston, TX.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 15 12:30:43 2001
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
Subject: Re: flesh
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:21:41 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<5.1.0.14.2.20011114205449.00a78720@mail>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <5.1.0.14.2.20011114205449.00a78720@mail>, Lorley Oneyear
<lorley@home.com> writes
>Anyone recommend a good glass that would be closest to flesh colored?
Whose flesh?
Mine might be chocolate (milk or dark), or amber, or cream.
Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 15 12:38:46 2001
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Becker, Donna" <DF125031@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com>
Subject: Re: fumes....
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:26:42 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Remember that solder is an alloy of tin and lead.  In the heating of
solder some lead and tin fumes are released.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com>, Becker, Donna
<DF125031@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com> writes
>It's not the solder fumes that cause lead poisoning, is it?  I thought it
>was from touching the lead and then transferring that to food, etc. thereby
>ingesting lead.  The fumes are from the flux and cause other issues, such as
>cancer, tumors, headaches, etc.  Is this a false assumption on my part?  I
>use a fan to draw the fumes away, and I use rubber gloves when I solder (200
>gloves at Costco for $10) to keep the lead from coming in contact with my
>skin.  It also keeps the flux off my skin, since it seems to mess up my
>skin..  When I wash and wax the final piece I make sure I wash my hands
>afterwards.  I also use the gloves when grinding, which saves my hands (they
>get kind of rough).
>Could someone set me straight.
>
>Donna Becker
>Senior Consultant II
>Office  630-469-5726
>Cell 630-248-0184
>donna.becker@chicagoil.ncr.com
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NJDKJD@aol.com [mailto:NJDKJD@aol.com]
>Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 3:32 PM
>To: glass@bungi.com
>Subject: fumes....
>
>
>
>--part1_171.3c1fbd3.29204845_boundary
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>
>Since it was time for blood tests...ahhh, vampires...I asked the Doctor for 
>Lead test as well, since I only have a fan facing away from me while I
>solder 
>(not towards me).
>Well, since I solder everyday, lo and behold, the test was extremely low. So
>
>perhaps, you guys that were thinking of something to take the fumes away, a 
>fan might do just as well.
>Nancy
>
>--part1_171.3c1fbd3.29204845_boundary
>Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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>
><HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Since it was time for blood
>tests...ahhh, vampires...I asked the Doctor for Lead test as well, since I
>only have a fan facing away from me while I solder (not towards me).
><BR>Well, since I solder everyday, lo and behold, the test was extremely
>low. So perhaps, you guys that were thinking of something to take the fumes
>away, a fan might do just as well.
><BR>Nancy</FONT></HTML>
>
>--part1_171.3c1fbd3.29204845_boundary--
>----
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>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 15 16:32:53 2001
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From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: flesh
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:56:01 -0700
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--=======2C6D7522=======
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Anyone recommend a good glass that would be closest to flesh colored?

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 15 20:00:30 2001
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: goose
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:55:26 -0700
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Has anyone seen a cute whimsical type pattern for a goose. A suncatcher 
type size or a bit larger.

--=======72933225=======--

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 15 23:00:44 2001
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
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Subject: graphics for patterns
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:13:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
Organization: Grendel Studio
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I usually let Sherlock ( the Mac's built-in searchbot) do my web hunting
for me, but I happened to go directly to Google several weeks ago and
they've improved it.  You can now click on "Image" and your search is
then for images.  So I tried a number of ones - "apple blossems"  "pecan
leaves"  "dragons" etc. and had a lot of fun plus found some nice
accurate pecan ones I could use (in the aggregate - not copied) as the
basis for a design.  This will be a great resource! - Cec

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 01:00:42 2001
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:51:37 -0500
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    I was cleaning out my overflowing e-mail from the last month or so =
and saw a respone from someone (sorry I don't remember the name but it =
was a guy)  in response to a question about snowflakes. This person =
offered info on fused snowflakes. I would be interested in getting this =
info. So hopefully the person who offered will see this.=20
    Thanks.
 Babette

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I was cleaning out my overflowing =
e-mail=20
from the last month or so and saw a respone from someone (sorry I don't =
remember=20
the name but it was a guy)&nbsp; in response to a question about =
snowflakes.=20
This person offered info on fused snowflakes. I would be interested in =
getting=20
this info. So hopefully the person who offered will see this. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;Babette</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 04:57:37 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
Subject: Re: flesh
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:23:34 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>>
Precedence: bulk

If you remember that all skin is some tone of amber, you can find lots
of glass.

Also remember that in painted glass, all the skin tones are represented
in tracing and shading black and brown.  The search for "reality" is
often misplaced.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>, Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
writes
>Spectrum peach if you want caucasian, they have a good one for Native
>American too, dont know the name or number, but I have yet to find a
>good one for African American.
>
>Suzanne
>
>Lorley Oneyear wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone recommend a good glass that would be closest to flesh colored?
>----
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>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 05:00:25 2001
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: making wooden frames for panels
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:25:44 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<6a.1667e7ab.2923b3ff@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <6a.1667e7ab.2923b3ff@aol.com>, CncptThnkr@aol.com writes
>Steve,
>
>Do you use a router and put a groove down the center of the wood or do you 
>use a rabbit on the back like a picture frame?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Pat

I use a rebate if someone else is making it.  If I am making it (I don't
have many wood working tools) I use beading on both the front and back,
and so avoid the need to machine the wood at all.

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 07:02:54 2001
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X-Path: exis.net!swamper
From: "Linda & Mike Campbell" <swamper@exis.net>
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>, CncptThnkr@aol.com,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Re: making wooden frames for panels
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:43:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@exis.net>
Precedence: bulk

I have small windows over my bathroom tubs and i hung hinged frames over the
flush windows (hinged so I could lift and clean behind them). These frames are
made from wooden stock I got at the craft store. They were not intended for
picture frames but were assorted lengths of framing intended for temporary frames
for needlework in progress. The corners are slotted like tongue and groove,
I bought the lengths closest to my needs, asssembled them and tacked the glass
in place on the back of the frames with small finishing nails and like cncptthnkr,
I put a bead of silicon around the glass on front and back of the frames. Oh,
and I painted the frames white first but they could just as easily be stained.


>From the perimeter of the Great Dismal Swamp
Where the black bears roam.
----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 10:03:22 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Who is this?
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:29:33 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
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 Anyone know who this is, or anything about them?

        Glass Shoppe <glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg>

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 11:28:53 2001
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From: WaynLinda@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Who is this?
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 14:04:52 EST
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In a message dated 11/16/2001 1:58:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
gunnx4@home.com writes:

<< Glass Shoppe <glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg> >>
Is this a web site? or an email address?
Doesn't sound familiar to me!
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 13:29:16 2001
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Subject: Re: graphics for patterns
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:31:18 -0500
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www.ditto.com is a graphic search engine
>From the perimeter of the Great Dismal Swamp
Where the black bears roam.
----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 16:01:51 2001
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Subject: Searching for German artist
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:40:54 EST
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Does anyone Know how to contact Burkurt Leirath. Was on Bungi several yrs 
ago. 
Lost addy with hard drive. Thanks Karlene in Wisc.
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 16:04:21 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Who is this?
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:30:04 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<00a101c16ee9$ab8c0480$652c96d1@wmagdycz>>
Organization: glassdancer
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Thanks for all the responses, guess it was spam pure and simple.  Just a
bit curious what group, list or newsgroup they got my email from.

Suzanne

Elaine wrote:
> 
> Suzanne,
> I found this through Spydersearch:
> Crafts Shoppe #03-54,390 Victoria St, Landmark Shopping Complex Singapore
> 188061
> Phone: 65.2927058 Fax: 65.2968241 Email: glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg. ...
> Elaine
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@home.com>
> To: <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:29 PM
> Subject: Who is this?
> 
> > Anyone know who this is, or anything about them?
> >
> >         Glass Shoppe <glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg>
> >
> > Suzanne
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 17:06:40 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: WaynLinda@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Who is this?
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:28:45 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<167.403ec13.2926bd54@aol.com>>
Organization: glassdancer
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They sent me a couple of files, one and executable file.
I didnt ask for them, and wondered if anyone knew anything about them, 
if someone knew a name...maybe I'd forgotten a conversation with someone
or something.

Suzanne

WaynLinda@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 11/16/2001 1:58:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> gunnx4@home.com writes:
> 
> << Glass Shoppe <glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg> >>
> Is this a web site? or an email address?
> Doesn't sound familiar to me!
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 17:39:41 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: making wooden frames for panels
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:31:24 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>>
Organization: glassdancer
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If Im framing a panel, I dont want any one to be able to tell the front
from the back.

Suzanne

Steve Richard wrote:
> 
> In message <6a.1667e7ab.2923b3ff@aol.com>, CncptThnkr@aol.com writes
> >Steve,
> >
> >Do you use a router and put a groove down the center of the wood or do you
> >use a rabbit on the back like a picture frame?
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Pat
> 
> I use a rebate if someone else is making it.  If I am making it (I don't
> have many wood working tools) I use beading on both the front and back,
> and so avoid the need to machine the wood at all.
> 
> Steve
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 17:50:31 2001
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From: "Elaine" <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@home.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Who is this?
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:57:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>>
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Suzanne,
I found this through Spydersearch:
Crafts Shoppe #03-54,390 Victoria St, Landmark Shopping Complex Singapore
188061
Phone: 65.2927058 Fax: 65.2968241 Email: glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg. ...
Elaine

----- Original Message -----
From: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:29 PM
Subject: Who is this?


> Anyone know who this is, or anything about them?
>
>         Glass Shoppe <glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg>
>
> Suzanne
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 18:01:08 2001
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From: "Elaine" <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@home.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Who is this?
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:04:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>
Precedence: bulk

Art Glass World gives the name as:
The StainedGlass Crafts Shoppe
#03-54,390 Victoria St, Landmark Shopping Complex  Singapore 188061
Phone: 65.2927058  Fax: 65.2968241
Email: glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg

That's it. Elaine

----- Original Message -----
From: "Elaine" <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@home.com>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Who is this?


> Suzanne,
> I found this through Spydersearch:
> Crafts Shoppe #03-54,390 Victoria St, Landmark Shopping Complex Singapore
> 188061
> Phone: 65.2927058 Fax: 65.2968241 Email: glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg. ...
> Elaine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@home.com>
> To: <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:29 PM
> Subject: Who is this?
>
>
> > Anyone know who this is, or anything about them?
> >
> >         Glass Shoppe <glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg>
> >
> > Suzanne
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
>


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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 18:20:14 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: HILLHD1@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Searching for German artist
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:38:50 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

Hey Karlene...

Got your earlier email, and just hadnt had a chance to respond yet.  Im
nodding off.  Gotta get my second wind! ;o)  I'll get on my older
computer and check older email addresses and see if I have it.
(also give me a few days on the links, ok?)

Suzanne

HILLHD1@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Does anyone Know how to contact Burkurt Leirath. Was on Bungi several yrs
> ago.
> Lost addy with hard drive. Thanks Karlene in Wisc.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 19:04:20 2001
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From: "Linda & Mike Campbell" <swamper@exis.net>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Re: Who is this?
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:10:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@exis.net>
Precedence: bulk

a QUICK WEB SEARCH GAVE ME THIS. Hope it helps.

Singapore

          The StainedGlass Crafts Shoppe
          #03-54,390 Victoria St, Landmark Shopping Complex  Singapore 188061

          Phone: 65.2927058  Fax: 65.2968241
          Email: glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg 






> Anyone know who this is, or anything about them?
>
>        Glass Shoppe <glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg>
>
>Suzanne
>----
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>
>
 
>From the perimeter of the Great Dismal Swamp
Where the black bears roam.
----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 20:04:45 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: slumped fruit
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:40:40 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

That $5 a peice really isnt a bad price.
They arent making any money on it!

Suzanne

"Christie A. Wood" wrote:
> 
> Message text written by INTERNET:Patty.McMaster@fbol.com
> >Does anyone know where I can get slumped fruit ?
> (making cabinet doors )
> I know I need apples & pears
> The shop close to me charges $5. something a piece<
> 
> Then buy it from them.  We all purchase the slumped
> fruit from the same manufacturer.  If you don't want to pay
> $5/piece, you can make your own molds and slump them
> yourself in a kiln.  But that's way more expensive than the
> $5/piece.
> 
> Christie A. Wood
> Art Glass Ensembles
> Denton, TX
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 16 20:53:10 2001
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From: "Sarah" <arasai@woh.rr.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Interesting tidbit....
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:39:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@woh.rr.com>
Precedence: bulk

I was just now watching the Sloan Auction on T.V., and they just sold an
original Tiffany hanging lamp for $370,000.00! It appraised at $250,000.00.
That is sure incentive for me to always do my best when making something.
I'll bet Louis Tiffany never dreamed that lamp would sell for so much some
day!
Sarah


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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 00:07:43 2001
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From: ewhood@ns.sympatico.ca (Susan Hood)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: black patina
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 00:59:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@ns.sympatico.ca>
Precedence: bulk

How does anyone get a really shiny solid black patina? I have tried all
kinds of flux removers and cleaners beforehand and also putting the patina
on directly after soldering.  Still no luck.  Any suggestions?  Thanks,
Susan Hood

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 04:36:37 2001
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: gunnx4@home.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: making wooden frames for panels
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 06:37:54 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne,

I assumed Steve meant he put a piece of molding on both the front and back of 
the metal that's framing the glass in.  Sorta sandwiched it in....I loved the 
idea, I am capable of building a frame that way, I don't have the woodworking 
tools to route a groove in framing stock.   I have a scroll saw, coping saw, 
hack saw, chisel and sander, I think that between them I could do the 
technique of overlapping corners on a wood frame and cutting molding to hold 
the glass in.  

I agree, I don't want to see the "back" of the work, I want a finished look 
on both sides.   Now I need to make a panel just to practice framing.  <grin> 
 

Pat
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 07:24:25 2001
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From: WaynLinda@aol.com
To: ewhood@ns.sympatico.ca, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: black patina
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:19:52 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

There is no answer to that problem. lol or at least there are so many 
variables that there are many answers!
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 08:08:08 2001
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Subject: Re: black patina
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:53:45 EST
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There is a very informative article by Joe Porcelli at www.artglassworld.com. 
 

Go to the site and search for "Getting A Better Patina."  

Open "Patina - Page one (summary)" 


Carolyn Gilinsky
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 08:21:00 2001
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
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Subject: Re: Who is this?
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:45:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
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My sister and her husband went to China for a month last summer, and emailed
us from their hotels about their adventures.  We were thrilled.  No sooner had
she come home than we started getting spam from China.  However, that has
trickled down to almost nothing now.  Wish I could say the same for the email
from the US and Europe - most of which use fake hotmail and yahoo addresses

However, in your "spam" case, it might well have been a case of a virus, the
kind that takes addresses from somebody's drive and sends gobs of .exe virus
files to all the addresses.  Since the business seems to be an actual craft
shop, maybe they did have your address legitimately. - Cec

Suzanne Gunn wrote:

> Thanks for all the responses, guess it was spam pure and simple.  Just a
> bit curious what group, list or newsgroup they got my email from.
>
> Suzanne
>
> Elaine wrote:
> >
> > Suzanne,
> > I found this through Spydersearch:
> > Crafts Shoppe #03-54,390 Victoria St, Landmark Shopping Complex Singapore
> > 188061
> > Phone: 65.2927058 Fax: 65.2968241 Email: glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg. ...
> > Elaine
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@home.com>
> > To: <glass@bungi.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:29 PM
> > Subject: Who is this?
> >
> > > Anyone know who this is, or anything about them?
> > >
> > >         Glass Shoppe <glassshoppe@pacific.net.sg>
> > >
> > > Suzanne
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > >
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 10:41:54 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Who is this?
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:32:49 -0500
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Message text written by Suzanne Gunn
>Thanks for all the responses, guess it was spam pure and simple.  Just a=

bit curious what group, list or newsgroup they got my email from.<

Not just spam.  Had a virus attached which my Norton Anti-Virus scanner
picked up.  It's in an attached file titled water.com.  Delete it.  Whoev=
er
this was probably didn't know his computer was attacked by the virus.  It=

probably just sent the bogus email spam to everyone on his address list.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 12:35:55 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: making wooden frames for panels
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:10:33 -0600
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Oh! ;o)  Certainly would be easier! Great idea.

Suzanne

CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Suzanne,
> 
> I assumed Steve meant he put a piece of molding on both the front and back of
> the metal that's framing the glass in.  Sorta sandwiched it in....
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 14:36:19 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: Susan Hood <ewhood@ns.sympatico.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: black patina
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:09:18 -0600
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Buff city man! ;o)

Suzanne

Susan Hood wrote:
> 
> How does anyone get a really shiny solid black patina? I have tried all
> kinds of flux removers and cleaners beforehand and also putting the patina
> on directly after soldering.  Still no luck.  Any suggestions?  Thanks,
> Susan Hood
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 15:09:45 2001
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From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: test
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:46:30 -0500
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new test, completley blank this time. let's see if this works...



---Mike Savad

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 16:40:24 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: Mike Savad <esavad@home.com>
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Subject: Re: test
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:25:41 -0600
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Looks like you are not banned Mike!

Mike Savad wrote:
> 
> new test, completley blank this time. let's see if this works...
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 19:53:01 2001
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From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
To: <gunnx4@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: test
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 20:17:55 -0500
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though annoying, and since it was un annouced, they've been banning any
messages that have the words geo/cities in it. so now i have to erase my
site anytime i want to post. though i'm still not sure why the yahoo one's
didn't go through.


---Mike Savad




-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@home.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 7:26 PM
To: Mike Savad
Cc: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: test


Looks like you are not banned Mike!

Mike Savad wrote:
>
> new test, completley blank this time. let's see if this works...
>
> ---Mike Savad
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 20:53:18 2001
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From: Dan Terrill <dterrill@Corpit.com>
To: "'ewhood@ns.sympatico.ca'" <ewhood@ns.sympatico.ca>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: black patina
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:18:49 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

Have you tried applying the patina like normal, then shining it up with
lemon oil? Works for me

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ewhood@ns.sympatico.ca [mailto:ewhood@ns.sympatico.ca]
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 12:00 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: black patina
> 
> 
> How does anyone get a really shiny solid black patina? I have 
> tried all
> kinds of flux removers and cleaners beforehand and also 
> putting the patina
> on directly after soldering.  Still no luck.  Any 
> suggestions?  Thanks,
> Susan Hood
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 21:23:05 2001
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From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
To: "Susan Hood" <ewhood@ns.sympatico.ca>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: black patina
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:26:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@ns.sympatico.ca>>
Precedence: bulk

floor wax. pledge works. anything that can give a shine, but doesn't remove
the patina. usally i'll use kem-o-pro but that still removes some of the
patina. pretty much wash it off with baking soda and joy. dry, and spray on
the wax, and polish.


---Mike Savad



-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Hood [mailto:ewhood@ns.sympatico.ca]
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 12:00 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: black patina


How does anyone get a really shiny solid black patina? I have tried all
kinds of flux removers and cleaners beforehand and also putting the patina
on directly after soldering.  Still no luck.  Any suggestions?  Thanks,
Susan Hood

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 17 22:24:04 2001
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
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Subject: Re: test
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 23:14:53 -0500
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Why? - Cec

Mike Savad wrote:

> though annoying, and since it was un annouced, they've been banning any
> messages that have the words geo/cities in it. so now i have to erase my
> site anytime i want to post. though i'm still not sure why the yahoo one's
> didn't go through.
>
> ---Mike Savad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@home.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 7:26 PM
> To: Mike Savad
> Cc: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: test
>
> Looks like you are not banned Mike!
>
> Mike Savad wrote:
> >
> > new test, completley blank this time. let's see if this works...
> >
> > ---Mike Savad
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 18 06:33:54 2001
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From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
To: "Bungi Glass" <glass@bungi.com>
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Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 08:47:00 -0500
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why what?


---Mike Savad


-----Original Message-----
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@home.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:15 PM
To: Bungi Glass
Subject: Re: test


Why? - Cec

Mike Savad wrote:

> though annoying, and since it was un annouced, they've been banning any
> messages that have the words geo/cities in it. so now i have to erase my
> site anytime i want to post. though i'm still not sure why the yahoo one's
> didn't go through.
>
> ---Mike Savad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@home.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 7:26 PM
> To: Mike Savad
> Cc: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: test
>
> Looks like you are not banned Mike!
>
> Mike Savad wrote:
> >
> > new test, completley blank this time. let's see if this works...
> >
> > ---Mike Savad
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 18 18:13:52 2001
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: test
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:03:00 -0500
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Organization: Grendel Studio
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Why block geo/cities?  If it is spam, I find a lot more come from elsewhere. -
Cec

Mike Savad wrote:

> why what?
>
> ---Mike Savad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecily & Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@home.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:15 PM
> To: Bungi Glass
> Subject: Re: test
>
> Why? - Cec
>
> Mike Savad wrote:
>
> > though annoying, and since it was un annouced, they've been banning any
> > messages that have the words geo/cities in it. so now i have to erase my
> > site anytime i want to post. though i'm still not sure why the yahoo one's
> > didn't go through.
> >
> > ---Mike Savad
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@home.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 7:26 PM
> > To: Mike Savad
> > Cc: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: Re: test
> >
> > Looks like you are not banned Mike!
> >
> > Mike Savad wrote:
> > >
> > > new test, completley blank this time. let's see if this works...
> > >
> > > ---Mike Savad
> > >
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> ----
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>
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 18 19:30:45 2001
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From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
To: "Bungi Glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: test
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:39:10 -0500
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i didn't understand it myself. for about 5+ months now i could recieve but
not send. i finally was able to get through, and he said anything with
geo/cities in it (don't know if this will be filtered out), get's tossed.
not bounced, or i would have figured it out earlier.

as far as i know geo doesn't have any real spam that i know of, or am aware
of. and i know it was unanounced, which is a bit annoying. i'm kind of
curious as to why also.


---Mike Savad


-----Original Message-----
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@home.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 11:03 AM
To: Bungi Glass
Subject: Re: test


Why block geo/cities?  If it is spam, I find a lot more come from
elsewhere. -
Cec

Mike Savad wrote:

> why what?
>
> ---Mike Savad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecily & Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@home.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:15 PM
> To: Bungi Glass
> Subject: Re: test
>
> Why? - Cec
>
> Mike Savad wrote:
>
> > though annoying, and since it was un annouced, they've been banning any
> > messages that have the words geo/cities in it. so now i have to erase my
> > site anytime i want to post. though i'm still not sure why the yahoo
one's
> > didn't go through.
> >
> > ---Mike Savad
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@home.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 7:26 PM
> > To: Mike Savad
> > Cc: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: Re: test
> >
> > Looks like you are not banned Mike!
> >
> > Mike Savad wrote:
> > >
> > > new test, completley blank this time. let's see if this works...
> > >
> > > ---Mike Savad
> > >
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> > ----
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>
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 18 22:47:23 2001
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X-Path: erols.com!harperr
From: Bob Harper <harperr@erols.com>
To: Mike Savad <esavad@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: test
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:12:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@erols.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Enough already!

Mike Savad wrote:

> i didn't understand it myself. for about 5+ months now i could recieve but
> not send. i finally was able to get through, and he said anything with
> geo/cities in it (don't know if this will be filtered out), get's tossed.
> not bounced, or i would have figured it out earlier.
>
> as far as i know geo doesn't have any real spam that i know of, or am aware
> of. and i know it was unanounced, which is a bit annoying. i'm kind of
> curious as to why also.
>
> ---Mike Savad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecily & Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@home.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 11:03 AM
> To: Bungi Glass
> Subject: Re: test
>
> Why block geo/cities?  If it is spam, I find a lot more come from
> elsewhere. -
> Cec
>
> Mike Savad wrote:
>
> > why what?
> >
> > ---Mike Savad
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cecily & Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@home.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:15 PM
> > To: Bungi Glass
> > Subject: Re: test
> >
> > Why? - Cec
> >
> > Mike Savad wrote:
> >
> > > though annoying, and since it was un annouced, they've been banning any
> > > messages that have the words geo/cities in it. so now i have to erase my
> > > site anytime i want to post. though i'm still not sure why the yahoo
> one's
> > > didn't go through.
> > >
> > > ---Mike Savad
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@home.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 7:26 PM
> > > To: Mike Savad
> > > Cc: glass@bungi.com
> > > Subject: Re: test
> > >
> > > Looks like you are not banned Mike!
> > >
> > > Mike Savad wrote:
> > > >
> > > > new test, completley blank this time. let's see if this works...
> > > >
> > > > ---Mike Savad
> > > >
> > > > ----
> > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > >
> > > ----
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> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> > ----
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> >
> > ----
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>
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 19 21:27:42 2001
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From: "bird_cage" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: oxidation
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:36:40 -0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@email.msn.com>
Precedence: bulk

I have recently been experiencing a problem with oxidation.  I mostly work
with copper foil.   I use 60/40 solder, Fry Classic 100 Gel Flux.  I wash
the completed project with dish soap and then rinse it well.  I then
thoroughly dry the piece.  I the use Kem-O-Pro Finishing Compound.  With the
projects I am doing now, I don't use patina.

I am finding a white substance building up on the solder within a week or
two.

I am at my wits end.

Does any one know why this is happening and what I can do to make it stop?

I appreciate any help I can get.  Thank you

Cheryl Parrott
The Glass Parrott

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 20 09:53:45 2001
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
To: "bird_cage" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: oxidation
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:47:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@email.msn.com>>
Precedence: bulk

try using baking soda with the mix, this will help remove the surface flux.

the flux may also be trapped in the solder. i know the liquid flux vaporizes
pretty well, but the gel may leave something behind.

also do you live near the sea? salt air might be the problem. i know it does
a job on aluminum and steel.


---Mike Savad


-----Original Message-----
From: bird_cage [mailto:bird_cage@email.msn.com]
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 10:37 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: oxidation


I have recently been experiencing a problem with oxidation.  I mostly work
with copper foil.   I use 60/40 solder, Fry Classic 100 Gel Flux.  I wash
the completed project with dish soap and then rinse it well.  I then
thoroughly dry the piece.  I the use Kem-O-Pro Finishing Compound.  With the
projects I am doing now, I don't use patina.

I am finding a white substance building up on the solder within a week or
two.

I am at my wits end.

Does any one know why this is happening and what I can do to make it stop?

I appreciate any help I can get.  Thank you

Cheryl Parrott
The Glass Parrott

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 20 20:32:19 2001
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: bird_cage <bird_cage@email.msn.com>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: oxidation
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:40:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@email.msn.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

Do you add a bit of flux remover to your wash water?  You can't do that when
patinaing, but since you are not doing that, a good squirt of flux remover
might be helpful.  I also found there is a brand of solder I do NOT like -
can't think of the manufacturer - I just avoid it by not buying solder from one
store if I can help it.  Did you change solders recently?  - Cec

bird_cage wrote:

> I have recently been experiencing a problem with oxidation.  I mostly work
> with copper foil.   I use 60/40 solder, Fry Classic 100 Gel Flux.  I wash
> the completed project with dish soap and then rinse it well.  I then
> thoroughly dry the piece.  I the use Kem-O-Pro Finishing Compound.  With the
> projects I am doing now, I don't use patina.
>
> I am finding a white substance building up on the solder within a week or
> two.
>
> I am at my wits end.
>
> Does any one know why this is happening and what I can do to make it stop?
>
> I appreciate any help I can get.  Thank you
>
> Cheryl Parrott
> The Glass Parrott
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 20 21:02:15 2001
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X-Path: autop.com!robin
From: "Robin Ellison - Auto And Parts, LLC" <robin@autop.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: copper patina
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:30:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@autop.com>
Organization: Auto and Parts.Com
Precedence: bulk

ok, i have just gotten some copper patina last week. and have literally
ruined my panel. it is all
splotchy and horrible looking. what did i do wrong?
robin

--
********************************************************
Thank You
Robin Ellison
Auto & Parts... http://www.autoandparts.com
1-888-977-1999
Automotive Internet Services that get RESULTS !!
Auto & Parts provides internet solutions exclusively for
the Auto Recycling Industry. Offering used part locating
systems for buying & selling , web site design, hosting
and maintenance at a reasonable cost.
AOL FRIENDLY LINK
<a href="http://autoandparts.com">Auto And Parts</a>



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From owner-glass Tue Nov 20 21:02:15 2001
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From: "Robin Ellison - Auto And Parts, LLC" <robin@autop.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: fastwax THE BEST!
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:21:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@autop.com>
Organization: Auto and Parts.Com
Precedence: bulk

http://www.fastwax.com/  i use this on all my stained glass projects, i
have used paste wax, brasso,
you name it. NOTHING comes close to this stuff, just shake real good,
spray and polish softly right
away with a soft cloth. so easy. its carbuna wax, i use it to polish
just plane silver solder projects
and its unbelievable.
http://www.fastwax.com/search.asp find a dealer by state and this stuff
is not very expensive i
think a got two cans for $15 at a car show.
happy Turkey Day to Everyone!
robin

--
********************************************************
Thank You
Robin Ellison
Auto & Parts... http://www.autoandparts.com
1-888-977-1999
Automotive Internet Services that get RESULTS !!
Auto & Parts provides internet solutions exclusively for
the Auto Recycling Industry. Offering used part locating
systems for buying & selling , web site design, hosting
and maintenance at a reasonable cost.
AOL FRIENDLY LINK
<a href="http://autoandparts.com">Auto And Parts</a>



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From owner-glass Tue Nov 20 22:56:00 2001
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: RE: oxidation
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:34:10 -0500
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20011120132927.00af1220@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@email.msn.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Is there a chance that you have any sulfur in your water?   If you do.... 
it will have an immediate effect on metals....

Barbara



At 10:47 AM 11/20/2001 -0500, Mike Savad wrote:
>try using baking soda with the mix, this will help remove the surface flux.
>
>the flux may also be trapped in the solder. i know the liquid flux vaporizes
>pretty well, but the gel may leave something behind.
>
>also do you live near the sea? salt air might be the problem. i know it does
>a job on aluminum and steel.
>
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bird_cage [mailto:bird_cage@email.msn.com]
>Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 10:37 PM
>To: glass@bungi.com
>Subject: oxidation
>
>
>I have recently been experiencing a problem with oxidation.  I mostly work
>with copper foil.   I use 60/40 solder, Fry Classic 100 Gel Flux.  I wash
>the completed project with dish soap and then rinse it well.  I then
>thoroughly dry the piece.  I the use Kem-O-Pro Finishing Compound.  With the
>projects I am doing now, I don't use patina.
>
>I am finding a white substance building up on the solder within a week or
>two.
>
>I am at my wits end.
>
>Does any one know why this is happening and what I can do to make it stop?
>
>I appreciate any help I can get.  Thank you
>
>Cheryl Parrott
>The Glass Parrott
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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>
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 21 00:25:58 2001
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X-Path: northlights.co.uk!toby
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: "bird_cage" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: oxidation
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:14:16 -0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@northlights.co.uk>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@email.msn.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Cheryl,
Nice to see you back again!!
Here is a voice from the past .
Could it possibly be the humidity from your washing machine that makes the
solder oxidize?? (....or all these bright balloons you have ;-))
Remembering your studio, it could be a combination of things.
An answer might be (until someone can come up with a better idea), is to
polish your projects with clear furniture wax to form a barrier between the
solder and the ambient humidity.
Send me a line off-group so we can exchange happenings (in my case a few
dramatic ones!). I am only very recently back on-line myself and am lurking
most of the time.
All the best!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Cheryl wrote:
> I have recently been experiencing a problem with oxidation.  I mostly work
> with copper foil.   I use 60/40 solder, Fry Classic 100 Gel Flux.  I wash
> the completed project with dish soap and then rinse it well.  I then
> thoroughly dry the piece.  I the use Kem-O-Pro Finishing Compound.  With
the
> projects I am doing now, I don't use patina.
>
> I am finding a white substance building up on the solder within a week or
> two.
>
> I am at my wits end.
>
> Does any one know why this is happening and what I can do to make it stop?
>
> I appreciate any help I can get.  Thank you
>
> Cheryl Parrott
>

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 21 03:03:49 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: "Robin Ellison - Auto And Parts, LLC" <robin@autop.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: copper patina
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:21:48 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@autop.com>>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

Robin...

Sometimes it just takes lots of elbow grease to get a good copper
patina.  Some swear by heating it first, but I cant tell that it makes a
difference.

I use a rag, and scrub it on.  Then more, and keep at it till you get
the patina you want.  Then throw the rag away. (it'll disintegrate on
it's own in time)

Good luck.

Suzanne

"Robin Ellison - Auto And Parts, LLC" wrote:
> 
> ok, i have just gotten some copper patina last week. and have literally
> ruined my panel. it is all
> splotchy and horrible looking. what did i do wrong?
> robin
> 
> --
> ********************************************************
> Thank You
> Robin Ellison
> Auto & Parts... http://www.autoandparts.com
> 1-888-977-1999
> Automotive Internet Services that get RESULTS !!
> Auto & Parts provides internet solutions exclusively for
> the Auto Recycling Industry. Offering used part locating
> systems for buying & selling , web site design, hosting
> and maintenance at a reasonable cost.
> AOL FRIENDLY LINK
> <a href="http://autoandparts.com">Auto And Parts</a>
> 
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 21 06:33:05 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: copper patina
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:19:44 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Robin Ellison - Auto And Parts, LLC"
>ok, i have just gotten some copper patina last week. and have literally
ruined my panel. it is all
splotchy and horrible looking. what did i do wrong?<

Nope, you didn't do it wrong.  That's the way some copper patinas
look after the first application (Jax brand in particular).  According
to Joe Porcelli (master of patinas) you now need to steel wool
over what you just patina'ed, and reapply a 2nd coating of copper
patina.  This one is the coating which is shiny copper.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 21 08:04:41 2001
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X-Path: vcn.com!birkie
From: "Birkie" <birkie@vcn.com>
To: "Robin Ellison - Auto And Parts, LLC" <robin@autop.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: copper patina
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 06:46:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@vcn.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@autop.com>>
Precedence: bulk

I have discovered with some patina's that I need to stand near a water
source and rinse the piece off every minute or so.

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 21 08:48:56 2001
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X-Path: doorpi.net!mmam5
From: mmam5@doorpi.net
To: Ensembles@compuserve.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: copper patina
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:54:29 EST
Message-ID: <200111211554.fALFsYg54830@mail1.netacc.net>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for the great info! Of late I've shied away from Copper patina,
next project I'll try it and put on more applications and see!	

Marci
Martin Designs

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:19:44 -0500 "Christie A. Wood" wrote:

> Message text written by "Robin Ellison - Auto And Parts, LLC"
> >ok, i have just gotten some copper patina last week. and have
> literally
> ruined my panel. it is all
> splotchy and horrible looking. what did i do wrong?<
> 
> Nope, you didn't do it wrong.  That's the way some copper patinas
> look after the first application (Jax brand in particular). 
> According
> to Joe Porcelli (master of patinas) you now need to steel wool
> over what you just patina'ed, and reapply a 2nd coating of copper
> patina.  This one is the coating which is shiny copper.
> 
> Christie A. Wood
> Art Glass Ensembles
> Denton, TX
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 21 09:21:00 2001
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
To: "Robin Ellison - Auto And Parts, LLC" <robin@autop.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: copper patina
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:27:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
Precedence: bulk

the planets were not aligned with the moon properly.



it depends on many factors. did you wash the panel, remove all the flux? did
you dry it? what is the brand? (jax is terribly picky). maybe you have hard
water. maybe they solder was too oxidized, maybe it's the wrong flux, or
wrong solder.

you can easily fix it, by using 000 or 0000 steel wool and remove the old
patina and oxidation. wash the panel in  joy and baking soda. wash it off
until it squeaks, then dry, patina (don't dip the brush into the bottle,
pour some into the lid). and try it again, once coppery, wash again same
steps. then polish, and then it will be copper shiney. though before all
that, try just polishing a section, sometimes it appears splotchy, and it
just needs a good polishing.


---Mike Savad


-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Ellison - Auto And Parts, LLC [mailto:robin@autop.com]
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 8:31 AM
To: Bungi Glass
Subject: copper patina


ok, i have just gotten some copper patina last week. and have literally
ruined my panel. it is all
splotchy and horrible looking. what did i do wrong?
robin

--
********************************************************
Thank You
Robin Ellison
Auto & Parts... http://www.autoandparts.com
1-888-977-1999
Automotive Internet Services that get RESULTS !!
Auto & Parts provides internet solutions exclusively for
the Auto Recycling Industry. Offering used part locating
systems for buying & selling , web site design, hosting
and maintenance at a reasonable cost.
AOL FRIENDLY LINK
<a href="http://autoandparts.com">Auto And Parts</a>



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From owner-glass Wed Nov 21 09:55:07 2001
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From: "bird_cage" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: oxidation
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:13:14 -0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@email.msn.com>
References: <<008d01c171ad$52402160$d40870c3@t4c3g8>>
Precedence: bulk

E and all
Thank you for your input on my oxidation problem.

Elisabeth,  I thought maybe the problem could be the washer and dryer in  my
workshop.  However, that has never been a problem in the past.    We had a
pretty humid summer and right now, being Washington State we are in our
monsoon months and it is pretty wet outside.

I've tried using baking soda in the dish soap when I clean the glass, but
that hasn't helped.  I will pick up some flux cleaner and see if that helps.

I looked to see if I could get Fastwax in Washington but they don't sell it
here.  I'll have to order it.  In the mean time I'll look for clear
furniture wax.

The only thing that is different is the flux that I use.  I am wondering if
the gel flux is the  culprit.  i will let you all know if that makes the
difference.

thank you for your input.
Cheryl Parrott


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From owner-glass Wed Nov 21 10:57:55 2001
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X-Path: allexecs.com!danjohnson
From: Dan Johnson <danjohnson@allexecs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: The best jobs aren't advertised ......
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:06:56 -0800
Message-ID: <200111211804.fALI4qva012442@mail2.resumerabbit.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi There!

I found an old copy of your resume. You probably didn't know,
but you can post yourself to 75 career websites using 1 easy
online form. If you're still in the market, this will really
multiply your chances of landing a great job.

In just 15 minutes you'll be posted to all the major sites like:
Monster, Headhunter, Hot Jobs, Dice and more. Be seen by over
1.5 million employers and recruiters daily! You'll save at least 60
hours of preparation, research and data entry.

Check out http://www.resumerabbit.com. It's quick, easy and
surprisingly inexpensive.

You can even choose from a list of industry & specialty sites.
And you don't even need a resume handy. Fill out a quick & easy
form then the jobs find you. It's that simple.

Best of luck in your job search!

Dan Johnson
Manager
danjohnson@allexecs.com

-----------------------

P.S.  I may send you a note from time to time so if you'd rather not
get them just reply and let me know with remove written in the subject.

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 21 13:30:42 2001
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X-Path: home.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: bird_cage <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: oxidation
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:10:32 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@email.msn.com>>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

Hi Cheryl! :o)

Ive been using spray Turtle wax lately, I havent had any problems with
it, have you tried it?

Where've you been hiding, and what's new with you?

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 22 02:50:27 2001
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From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-71EE61A8; boundary="=======D2A6FB7======="
Subject: wire around the edge
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:14:11 -0700
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--=======D2A6FB7=======
Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-71EE61A8; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I've been making very small suncatchers with a bevel center and two half 
moon pieces soldered to it to make a heart. At the stained glass shop she 
said I should run a wire around the entire edge and resolder the outside 
edge. Is there a small enough wire that I can use so the edge doesn't look 
too bulky. I like the crisp lines of some of my smaller pieces and think 
that if I run a wire around the edge and then resolder that it will take 
away from the angle of my edges. I don't want to loose the cleavage lines 
of my hearts or the nice square edges. When I solder now I do a nice 
rounded bead on both sides and at the edges I make sure there's a bit of 
extra solder where the pieces meet. Is that wire around the edge really 
necessary? And do I need to do that for every suncatcher type piece big and 
small?

--=======D2A6FB7=======--

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 22 11:31:13 2001
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
To: "Lorley Oneyear" <lorley@home.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: wire around the edge
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:06:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<5.1.0.14.2.20011121160827.00a8c010@mail>>
Precedence: bulk

the 2 methods i use are:

1. put a small bead around the catcher.
2. foil it with 1/4" or 3/8" foil, then solder. with the 3/8" you can run a
small bead around the border.

wire helps, but only if the catcher is floppy to begin with. the guage you
want probably wouldn't be in a glass store. i'd try an electronics store.
ask for a really thin, soft copper wire with no insulation.


---Mike Savad


-----Original Message-----
From: Lorley Oneyear [mailto:lorley@home.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 6:14 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: wire around the edge


I've been making very small suncatchers with a bevel center and two half
moon pieces soldered to it to make a heart. At the stained glass shop she
said I should run a wire around the entire edge and resolder the outside
edge. Is there a small enough wire that I can use so the edge doesn't look
too bulky. I like the crisp lines of some of my smaller pieces and think
that if I run a wire around the edge and then resolder that it will take
away from the angle of my edges. I don't want to loose the cleavage lines
of my hearts or the nice square edges. When I solder now I do a nice
rounded bead on both sides and at the edges I make sure there's a bit of
extra solder where the pieces meet. Is that wire around the edge really
necessary? And do I need to do that for every suncatcher type piece big and
small?

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 23 02:08:37 2001
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: bird_cage <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: oxidation
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:11:59 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@slonet.org>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@email.msn.com>>
Precedence: bulk

When you wash your piece after applying the patina be sure your dish soap
does not contain amonia.  If it does, it will speed up the oxidation, the
white mold that gets on your project.  PJ

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 23 07:46:08 2001
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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 4:15:36 +0100
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Please unsubribe me

Thanks you very much
Davide


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From owner-glass Sat Nov 24 13:06:00 2001
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X-Path: yahoo.com!anyimpiouscoker
From: anyim piouscoker <anyimpiouscoker@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: URGENT BUSINESS
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 01:46:15 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
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Coker And Associates
12 Dennis Street,
Victoria-lsland,
Lagos-State,
Nigeria.

Dear Sir,


I hope this e-mail wouldn’t come to you as a
surprise.Having gone through your profile,I am
convinced and pleased to solicit your sincere and
urgent assistance over this matter.

I am DR. ANYIM PIOUS COKER,an Attorney to one late
JERRY BERGER,(AN AMERICAN NATIONAL)a local contractor
with the LAGOS STATE GOVERNMENT OF NIGERIA.My client
(LATE JERRY BERGER)was awarded a contract worth of $45
Million United states Dollars by the LAGOS STATE
GOVERNMENT OF NIGERIA for the maintainance and
construction of roads in the states in 1999 and the
contract was fully executed by my late client.

My Client was only paid $15 Million United States
Dollars Upfront  Payment to commence the contract and
he was to receive the balance payment at the
completion of the contract,but unfortunately my client
was involved in a fatal autocrash on his way back from
the Governor’s office to ask for the balance Payment
of the contract sum being $30 Million United States
Dollars and he suddenly death.

Following the death of LATE JERRY BERGER, his
beneficiary/Next of kin came up to collect the Advance
payment of $15 Million United States Dollars and he is
not aware of the balance Payment of $30 Million United
States Dollars .

I have been contacted by the Contract Payment office
under the LAGOS STATE GOVERNMENT that the balance
payment for the executed contract has been approved
for payment and I am therefore adviced to present the
beneficiary/next of kin for the claim of the money
from their bank in-charge of contract payment.

At this juncture, I have decided to  divert this $30
Million United States Dollars to another foreign
account,by soliciting the assistance of a reliable
individual(A Foreigner) that will be presented as the
beneficiary/next of kin of the fund.I am ready to
prepare all documentations in your name as the
beneficiay/next of kin from the Federal High Court of
law to back up the claim in your favour,to enable the
bank release the money to any bank account you will
provide for this transaction within  (4) working
days,as soon as I hear your positive response.

Please bear in mind that there is no risk involved in
this transaction,but it requires absolute sincerity
and confidentiality due to the nature of the
transaction.

I am willing to give you 20% of the fund as a reward
for your assistance in this transaction.

I look forward to your swift response.

Regards,

ANYIM PIOUS COKER




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 24 17:33:00 2001
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X-Path: home.com!kristc
From: "Kris" <kristc@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: URGENT BUSINESS
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:51:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Profile? We have a profile? Hmmm, OK now, who's been making ~those~ sun
catchers this time?? <G>

Kris

PS This is a BS spam thing that has been all over the place. Please, no one
take it seriously


I hope this e-mail wouldn’t come to you as a
surprise.Having gone through your profile,I am
convinced and pleased to solicit your sincere and
urgent assistance over this matter.

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 25 10:23:55 2001
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From: paul s <pauls@tsn.cc>
To: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
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Subject: Hi
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:48:40 +1100
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References: <<paul s's message on Nov 22, 21:23.>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi there,

This is my first email, so I hope it works ok.

I live in australia and have recently started to do a course in stained 
glass which I am thoroughly enjoying..

I have also been doing woodwork for years and would like ideas or 
suggestions on small projects wherein I could combine my two interests, 
stained glass and woodwork.  Maybe make some items that would be sellable 
at markets etc.

My first two stained glass projects are for door panels for a 
tv/video/stereo unit that I recently built, but this is very large and I 
dont want to do many more things like this.  I have built quite a bit of 
household timber furniture.

I am open to suggestions,

Regards
Paul from Oz.  

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 25 16:04:18 2001
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X-Path: juno.com!pkinnetz
From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Hi Paul
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:23:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@juno.com>
Precedence: bulk

wow, I wish I had your skill

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:04:55 EST CncptThnkr@aol.com writes:
> Hey Paul,
> 
> Good job, your e mail came through as planned.  Welcome to Bungi.
> 
> My only suggestion is put exactly what you want information on in 
> the subject 
> line, this allows people to decide if they want to open it or not.   
> 
> Something like "Small glass and woodworking projects" would describe 
> what you 
> are looking for, wouldn't it?   
> 
> How about boxes with glass inserts in the lids?   How about wood 
> hand mirrors 
> with a glass insert on the back?   How about making frames for small 
> panels?  
>  Candle shelters with wood bases?   How about coming to Detroit and 
> making 
> frames for me?  <vbg>
> 
> Pat  
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 25 16:35:50 2001
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From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Hi Paul (again)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:32:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@juno.com>
Precedence: bulk

I think that last message escaped while I was still typing on it-- a
message came thru that I had mail, wn w/o thinking, hit the get mail
button, which sent it out, even though it was unfinished.  

so I'll con't. . . wish I had your skill at woodworking. That and
metalworking skills so I could make frames & sculptural forms (Did anyone
see the article in the Glass Craftsman this last issues? some great
ideas)..  Anyway, Welcome.  By any chance do you live near Louisville?  I
have lots of ideas to keep you busy.  I've tried to get my brother
interested in a joint venture-- he's the woodworker of the family.
Frames, small boxes, bookend frames, tabletop edges, napkin holder frames
(for mosaics or traditional stained glass), screens, even lamp bases, if
they were weighted to balance the wt. of a shade. 

Peggy K. 

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:04:55 EST CncptThnkr@aol.com writes:
> Hey Paul,
> 
> Good job, your e mail came through as planned.  Welcome to Bungi.
> 
> My only suggestion is put exactly what you want information on in 
> the subject 
> line, this allows people to decide if they want to open it or not.   
> 
> Something like "Small glass and woodworking projects" would describe 
> what you 
> are looking for, wouldn't it?   
> 
> How about boxes with glass inserts in the lids?   How about wood 
> hand mirrors 
> with a glass insert on the back?   How about making frames for small 
> panels?  
>  Candle shelters with wood bases?   How about coming to Detroit and 
> making 
> frames for me?  <vbg>
> 
> Pat  
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 26 04:31:09 2001
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
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Subject: Wood and glass
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:02:58 -0500
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Make your own fan lamp bases (you'll still have to buy lamps to
insert).  Look at the products Clarity makes for the stained glass
market and that should give you lots of ideas of the possibilities.

Me...one more craft fair to go.  Need more tiny angels...more
angels...more angels....

Dorothy


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From owner-glass Mon Nov 26 09:05:11 2001
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From: "Pseg" <seg@hci.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: soldering
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:18:34 -0500
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Hi Bungi teammates,

I have been receiving and reading email messages thru this group for a good
year.  You all have a lot of great advice and knowledge that you share,
thanks.  I have been playing with stain glass (foiling technique) off and on
for a few years.  Until now I haven't felt that I could share any useful
advice to you that one of you hadn't shared already.

I do allot of decorative soldiering on my pieces.  The way to achieve a good
bead which does not run and helps tremendously with strengthening is to
lower the temperature of your iron.  I soldier between glass pieces by
keeping the piece flat, holding my iron in one hand and the coil of soldier
in the other.  I touch the soldier iron with the soldier where the tip joins
the iron so it can flow down to the tip steadily, I then move along the
joint.  With the right temperature you can get a good seam the first time
round.  It takes practice but is well worth the end results.  This should be
done on both sides.  On edges of small pieces I hold the piece in my hand so
the edge is upright and dab a bead on. Hope this is helpful, thanks Sally.


----- Original Message -----
From: <WaynLinda@aol.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 11:55
Subject: soldering


> I have only been doing stained glass for about a year and I have always
made
> "big" panels. For instance 3'x5' panel and of course I always put a frame
> around them.
> I have recently tried my hand at a few sun catchers (I hate those small
> things) however I need help.
> Here is the problem: When you are soldering and you come to the outside
edge,
> the solder just runs out and you can't get a "bead" I have tried putting a
> scrap piece of glass there, but lots of times, the scrap glass doesn't fit
> tight enough ....for example if it is an inside corner. Then I go over it
> again and again and you know that doesn't work! I hope you can understand
the
> "problem"
> Thanks in advance for your help!
> Linda
> ----
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>

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 26 10:05:31 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Combining s.g. & wood
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:18:52 -0500
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Message text written by paul s
>My first two stained glass projects are for door panels for a =

tv/video/stereo unit that I recently built, but this is very large and I =

dont want to do many more things like this.  I have built quite a bit of =

household timber furniture.

I am open to suggestions,<

You might wish to take a look at Robert (Bob) Oddy's work
on the web (www.roddy.com I think, but if that doesn't work
try his old website at www.servtech.com/public/rnoddy/).
He frequently combines woodcarving and stained glass.
Excellent plating techniques too.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
Denton, TX
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 26 12:01:18 2001
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Subject: Black patina
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After years of asking everyone that same question, Susan, I finally got an 
answer.
Use Lemon Oil.  It is in the furniture polish section of grocery store, or 
Lowe's or Home Depot, etc.  It works great.  Just put on and wipe in deeply.  
It never takes the shine off the black and make it brassy looking and you 
don't just have a mat black like other polishes might leave it.  
I have recommended it to others and they have thanked me as I thank the lady 
who was kind enough to share it with me, here in North East Penna.
Nancy

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>After years of asking everyone that same question, Susan, I finally got an answer.
<BR>Use Lemon Oil. &nbsp;It is in the furniture polish section of grocery store, or Lowe's or Home Depot, etc. &nbsp;It works great. &nbsp;Just put on and wipe in deeply. &nbsp;It never takes the shine off the black and make it brassy looking and you don't just have a mat black like other polishes might leave it. &nbsp;
<BR>I have recommended it to others and they have thanked me as I thank the lady who was kind enough to share it with me, here in North East Penna.
<BR>Nancy</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 26 15:23:38 2001
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Subject: Robert Oddy's www site
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:52:46 EST
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Christine,

This may be the correct www site.

http://www.robertoddy.com/

Pat
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 26 20:08:59 2001
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From: WaynLinda@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: web site to sell stained glass finished projects
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:22:46 EST
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I have made a large panel of an angel. I am thinking of selling it on the 
Internet. Is there a web site anyone can recommend. I was thinking of 
something like Ebay. I appreciate your help!
Linda
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 27 03:20:59 2001
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Yes James I do.  It's the only way I know of to control the temperature. =
 I' ve had wonderful success using one.  I've been using one since I =
start stain glass and have never had a problem with it damaging my iron, =
but if it did it would be worth it to me to replace the iron.  Tips can =
always be used with a new iron if you get the same type.  I did a window =
for my daughter that had  a pair of lit candles in it, I used soldier to =
portray wax dripping.  I came out well.

Sally



On Monday, November 26, 2001 12:18 James wrote:

Sally,

Do you use a rheostat on your iron to control the heat? I asked someone =
else about this and they said it would ruin the iron. My iron is a 100 =
Walt and
I'm using a 700 degree tip. I'm pretty sure that a lot of my problems =
are related to the iron being too hot, but I'm not sure how to cool it =
down.

James



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<DIV><B><FONT size=3D1>
<P><FONT size=3D3>Yes James I do.&nbsp; It's the only way I know of to =
control the=20
temperature.&nbsp; I' ve had wonderful success using one.&nbsp; I've =
been using=20
one since I start stain glass and have never had a problem with it =
damaging my=20
iron, but if it did it would be worth it to me to replace the =
iron.&nbsp; Tips=20
can always be used&nbsp;with a new iron if you get the same type.&nbsp; =
I did a=20
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used=20
soldier to portray wax dripping.&nbsp; I came out well.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3D3>Sally<BR><BR></P></FONT>
<P>On Monday, November 26, 2001 12:18 James=20
wrote:</P></B></FONT>Sally,<BR><BR>Do you use a rheostat on your iron to =
control=20
the heat? I asked someone else about this and they said it would ruin =
the iron.=20
My iron is a 100 Walt and<BR>I'm using a 700 degree tip. I'm pretty sure =
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lot of my problems are related to the iron being too hot, but I'm not =
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 27 13:20:33 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!CUngv
From: CUngv@aol.com
To: Ensembles@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Combining s.g. & wood: Robert Oddy
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:36:42 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

I tried the links supplied by Christie A. Wood, and had no success, but I 
have another link which is good: http://www.robertoddy.com/.  I absolutely 
love this site.
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 27 18:28:21 2001
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #534 built 2001-Jul-23)
X-Path: dlr
From: dlr@bungi.com (Dave Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: New pictures
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:13:33 PST
Message-ID: <m168uEB-00009MC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

Glenna has some new pictures of her fused glass... please see
http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/jewel or
http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna

Thanks!

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 27 18:58:28 2001
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X-Path: yahoo.com!texpenguin
From: Sherry Greer <texpenguin@yahoo.com>
To: GlassList <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: picture frame
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:40:40 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
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Just a quick question.  If I'm making an easel back picture frame for a
household with no kids, will lead u-came be sufficient on the back to
hold the easel?  Or is brass came necessary for it's strengh, etc?  I
hate to buy 6ft of came when I'll only use 16".  THanks!
Sherry

=====
Sherry Greer
texpenguin@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 27 19:30:34 2001
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X-Path: doorpi.net!mmam5
From: "Marci" <mmam5@doorpi.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Combining s.g. & wood: Robert Oddy
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:04:26 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@doorpi.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Not that we aren't all GREAT at stained glass - - But isn't Robert's work
Fantastic! Such vision and imagination! He's made me open my mind to new
ideas on what to do with glass!


----- Original Message -----
From: <CUngv@aol.com>
To: <Ensembles@compuserve.com>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: Combining s.g. & wood: Robert Oddy


> I tried the links supplied by Christie A. Wood, and had no success, but I
> have another link which is good: http://www.robertoddy.com/.  I absolutely
> love this site.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 27 20:30:54 2001
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From: "Pseg" <seg@hci.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/related;
Subject: Re: Soldier
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:24:52 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@hci.net>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Yes James I do.  It's the only way I know of to control the temperature. =
 I' ve had wonderful success using one.  I've been using one since I =
start stain glass and have never had a problem with it damaging my iron, =
but if it did it would be worth it to me to replace the iron.  Tips can =
always be used with a new iron if you get the same type.  I did a window =
for my daughter that had  a pair of lit candles in it, I used soldier to =
portray wax dripping.  I came out well.

Sally



On Monday, November 26, 2001 12:18 James wrote:

Sally,

Do you use a rheostat on your iron to control the heat? I asked someone =
else about this and they said it would ruin the iron. My iron is a 100 =
Walt and
I'm using a 700 degree tip. I'm pretty sure that a lot of my problems =
are related to the iron being too hot, but I'm not sure how to cool it =
down.

James



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<P><FONT color=3D#00ffff size=3D2>Yes James I do.&nbsp; It's the only =
way I know of=20
to control the temperature.&nbsp; I' ve had wonderful success using =
one.&nbsp;=20
I've been using one since I start stain glass and have never had a =
problem with=20
it damaging my iron, but if it did it would be worth it to me to replace =
the=20
iron.&nbsp; Tips can always be used&nbsp;with a new iron if you get the =
same=20
type.&nbsp; I did a window for my daughter that had&nbsp; a pair of lit =
candles=20
in it, I used soldier to portray wax dripping.&nbsp; I came out =
well.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#00ffff size=3D2>Sally<BR><BR></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#00ffff size=3D2>On Monday, November 26, 2001 12:18 =
James=20
wrote:</FONT></P></B><FONT color=3D#00ffff size=3D2>Sally,<BR><BR>Do you =
use a=20
rheostat on your iron to control the heat? I asked someone else about =
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iron=20
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 27 23:02:40 2001
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Received: by daver.bungi.com
	via smail with stdio
	id <m168ySI-0000CQa@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:44:26 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #534 built 2001-Jul-23)
X-Path: doorpi.net!mmam5
From: "Marci" <mmam5@doorpi.net>
To: "Sherry Greer" <texpenguin@yahoo.com>, "GlassList" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: picture frame
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:39:38 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@doorpi.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Sherry,

I've had great luck using the zinc U channel for the easel holder.  I mark
where I want to the corners bent, and then cut the sides of the channel with
a wire cutters. Sometimes you have to use a bit more flux to get it the
solder to stick, but it works great and holds up well.   I have a photo of
one of my frames at
http://www.mmartindesigns.com/images/LtHouseFrame1_small.jpg

Good luck,

Marci
Martin Designs

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherry Greer" <texpenguin@yahoo.com>
To: "GlassList" <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 8:40 PM
Subject: picture frame


> Just a quick question.  If I'm making an easel back picture frame for a
> household with no kids, will lead u-came be sufficient on the back to
> hold the easel?  Or is brass came necessary for it's strengh, etc?  I
> hate to buy 6ft of came when I'll only use 16".  THanks!
> Sherry
>
> =====
> Sherry Greer
> texpenguin@yahoo.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
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>

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 27 23:09:32 2001
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	id <m168yj0-00009Ya@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:01:42 -0800 (PST)
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X-Path: hci.net!seg
From: "Pseg" <seg@hci.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: soldier
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:32:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@hci.net>
References: <<000001c177b2$eb4bec30$0100a8c0@t4u2y0>>
Precedence: bulk

You built a rheostat using a wall dimmer?  How does that save your iron, if
the iron needed saving? Sounds like a cool idea.


----- Original Message -----
From: Millar <snooker1@sympatico.ca>
To: 'Pseg' <seg@hci.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 21:18
Subject: RE: soldier


> I have one I built. A standard wall type dimmer in a little plastic box.
> Cost $8 and I've had it for 10 years.
>
> Save the iron
>
> Ted Millar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pseg [mailto:seg@hci.net]
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 9:55 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: soldier
>
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
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>
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> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
> Yes James I do.  It's the only way I know of to control the temperature. =
>  I' ve had wonderful success using one.  I've been using one since I =
> start stain glass and have never had a problem with it damaging my iron, =
> but if it did it would be worth it to me to replace the iron.  Tips can =
> always be used with a new iron if you get the same type.  I did a window =
> for my daughter that had  a pair of lit candles in it, I used soldier to =
> portray wax dripping.  I came out well.
>
> Sally


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From owner-glass Wed Nov 28 00:30:49 2001
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Sherry Greer <texpenguin@yahoo.com>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: picture frame
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 02:21:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

I use copper hobby came.  It is just the right thickness to hold the
cardboard easel backs.  I wouldn't use lead - it's too heavy. - Cec

Sherry Greer wrote:

> Just a quick question.  If I'm making an easel back picture frame for a
> household with no kids, will lead u-came be sufficient on the back to
> hold the easel?  Or is brass came necessary for it's strengh, etc?  I
> hate to buy 6ft of came when I'll only use 16".  THanks!
> Sherry
>
> =====
> Sherry Greer
> texpenguin@yahoo.com
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 28 08:30:39 2001
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X-Path: home.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: Dave Rand <dlr@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: New pictures
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:08:23 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<m168uEB-00009MC@daver.bungi.com>>
Organization: glassdancer
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Wow, Glenna!  You've been busy.  Love your jewelry!  Thanks for sharing.

Suzanne

Dave Rand wrote:
> 
> Glenna has some new pictures of her fused glass... please see
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/jewel or
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna
> 
> Thanks!
>
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 28 09:30:44 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: Marci <mmam5@doorpi.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Combining s.g. & wood: Robert Oddy
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:06:39 -0600
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@doorpi.net>>
Organization: glassdancer
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Few can do what Bob Oddy can do!

Suzanne

Marci wrote:
> 
> Not that we aren't all GREAT at stained glass - - But isn't Robert's work
> Fantastic! Such vision and imagination! He's made me open my mind to new
> ideas on what to do with glass!
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 28 11:31:58 2001
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From: "Cheryl Parrott" <theglassparrott@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/html
Subject: Glenna's work
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:42:41 -0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@hotmail.com>
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Fantastic!&nbsp;&nbsp; Thank you for sharing.&nbsp;&nbsp; This really makes me want to get into fusing.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Cheryl<BR><BR></P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></html>
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 28 15:02:35 2001
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From: mmam5@doorpi.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Stained Glass Box
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:45:36 EST
Message-ID: <200111282145.fASLjf621409@mail2.netacc.net>
Precedence: bulk

I've made jewelry boxes before, but not any larger than 8" x 4". I've
recently had someone ask for a jewelry box larger than 8" x 4", so I was
thinking either 10" x 6" or would 12" x 8" still be a sturdy size. The
pattern is a double rainbow and the bigger size would allow for more
detail. 

>From a stability standpoint, would it even be wise to go any larger than
either of these sizes?	Does the hinge material even come in that length?
If I use the 12" x 8" size should I put dividers inside the box to form
compartments and also help hold up the lid?

Any comments or ideas would be most welcome.

Thanks,

Marci
Martin Designs

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 28 15:41:38 2001
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: picture frame
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:11:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@mail2.nai.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>
Precedence: bulk

I don't do a lot picture frames, but do use the brass when I do.  Be
careful...you have to size just right so that the easel back will be held
securely.

I use the brass u-came to surround the edges of moderate size panels.  I
like the smoothe look it gives and the strength it adds.  (I'm talking
about maybe 8 in x 8 in to 12 x 12 inches.)  So I always have bits hanging
around when I do want to make a frame.  I also do use a "L'il Notcher' to
cut the came.  So much easier than any other way I've tried cutting (hand
tools only), but you have to plan on using came often enough to make that
purchase worth while.

Happy day...just picked up a special order today.  Have another one almost
ready to settle, once they get a chance to put some glass scraps in their
window and decide that what I showed them is REALLY what they want.

Dorothy

Sherry Greer wrote:

> Just a quick question.  If I'm making an easel back picture frame for a
> household with no kids, will lead u-came be sufficient on the back to
> hold the easel?  Or is brass came necessary for it's strengh, etc?  I
> hate to buy 6ft of came when I'll only use 16".  THanks!
> Sherry
>
> =====
> Sherry Greer
> texpenguin@yahoo.com
>


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From owner-glass Thu Nov 29 00:32:00 2001
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X-Path: home.com!kristc
From: "Kris" <kristc@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: New pictures
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:17:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<m168uEB-00009MC@daver.bungi.com>>
Precedence: bulk

I gotta know... how does she do it? How are those intricate designs made,
like all the horses or fish or other designs that look absolutely perfect? I
don't think I could do that well with a pen and paper. Is that some kind of
foil in there? I am very impressed, they look gorgeous!

Kris

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Rand [mailto:dlr@bungi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 9:14 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: New pictures


Glenna has some new pictures of her fused glass... please see
http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/jewel or
http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna

Thanks!


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From owner-glass Thu Nov 29 00:50:30 2001
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
To: <mmam5@doorpi.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Stained Glass Box
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:34:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<200111282145.fASLjf621409@mail2.netacc.net>>
Precedence: bulk


the main tube is i believe 3/32" brass tubing, which can be bought at a good
hobby store, in a 36" length. then i think 18 guage wire (whatever that
brass wire is that's sold at the SG store). that fit's in the end in place
of the inner tube.


---Mike Savad


-----Original Message-----
From: mmam5@doorpi.net [mailto:mmam5@doorpi.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 4:46 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Stained Glass Box


I've made jewelry boxes before, but not any larger than 8" x 4". I've
recently had someone ask for a jewelry box larger than 8" x 4", so I was
thinking either 10" x 6" or would 12" x 8" still be a sturdy size. The
pattern is a double rainbow and the bigger size would allow for more
detail.

>From a stability standpoint, would it even be wise to go any larger than
either of these sizes?	Does the hinge material even come in that length?
If I use the 12" x 8" size should I put dividers inside the box to form
compartments and also help hold up the lid?

Any comments or ideas would be most welcome.

Thanks,

Marci
Martin Designs

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 29 07:31:07 2001
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X-Path: rcn.com!wmagdycz
From: "Elaine" <wmagdycz@rcn.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Stained Glass Box
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:32:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@rcn.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Rocky's Ace Hardware store has 3' lengths of the tube and the rod that fits
in it. The other Ace hardware stores here don't have it. The Home Depot here
doesn't have it either. Elaine

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
To: <mmam5@doorpi.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 7:34 PM
Subject: RE: Stained Glass Box


>
> the main tube is i believe 3/32" brass tubing, which can be bought at a
good
> hobby store, in a 36" length. then i think 18 guage wire (whatever that
> brass wire is that's sold at the SG store). that fit's in the end in place
> of the inner tube.
>
>
> ---Mike Savad
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mmam5@doorpi.net [mailto:mmam5@doorpi.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 4:46 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Stained Glass Box
>
>
> I've made jewelry boxes before, but not any larger than 8" x 4". I've
> recently had someone ask for a jewelry box larger than 8" x 4", so I was
> thinking either 10" x 6" or would 12" x 8" still be a sturdy size. The
> pattern is a double rainbow and the bigger size would allow for more
> detail.
>
> >From a stability standpoint, would it even be wise to go any larger than
> either of these sizes? Does the hinge material even come in that length?
> If I use the 12" x 8" size should I put dividers inside the box to form
> compartments and also help hold up the lid?
>
> Any comments or ideas would be most welcome.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marci
> Martin Designs
>
> ----
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> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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>
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 29 10:41:14 2001
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: New pictures
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:29:36 PST
Message-ID: <m169VwJ-00009PC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

[In the message entitled "RE: New pictures" on Nov 28, 23:17, "Kris" writes:]
> I gotta know... how does she do it? How are those intricate designs made,
> like all the horses or fish or other designs that look absolutely perfect? I
> don't think I could do that well with a pen and paper. Is that some kind of
> foil in there? I am very impressed, they look gorgeous!

Actually the designs are printed on glass.
The I sandwich in between other layers of glass.
Mahalo...glad you like them.


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 29 11:47:23 2001
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	for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:31:26 -0800 (PST)
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K" <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: New pictures
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:13:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@softhouse.com>
Precedence: bulk

Kris,
Think the horses are done with enamel decals.  Lots of patterned dichro
too.
I want to know how she makes the bezels.

Karen
giapet@softhouse.com


> > I gotta know... how does she do it? How are those intricate designs
> made,
> > like all the horses or fish or other designs that look absolutely
> perfect? I
> > don't think I could do that well with a pen and paper. Is that some
> kind of
> > foil in there? I am very impressed, they look gorgeous!
> >
> > Kris
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Rand [mailto:dlr@bungi.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 9:14 PM
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: New pictures
> >
> >
> > Glenna has some new pictures of her fused glass... please see
> > http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/jewel or
> > http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
>


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From owner-glass Thu Nov 29 12:28:53 2001
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K" <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: New pictures
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:13:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@softhouse.com>
Precedence: bulk

Kris,
Think the horses are done with enamel decals.  Lots of patterned dichro
too.
I want to know how she makes the bezels.

Karen
giapet@softhouse.com


> > I gotta know... how does she do it? How are those intricate designs
> made,
> > like all the horses or fish or other designs that look absolutely
> perfect? I
> > don't think I could do that well with a pen and paper. Is that some
> kind of
> > foil in there? I am very impressed, they look gorgeous!
> >
> > Kris
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Rand [mailto:dlr@bungi.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 9:14 PM
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: New pictures
> >
> >
> > Glenna has some new pictures of her fused glass... please see
> > http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/jewel or
> > http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
>


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From owner-glass Thu Nov 29 14:31:38 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!ARTIZ01
From: ARTIZ01@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Glenna's pictures
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:34:02 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

I looked at Glenna's pictures of her jewelry, they are beautiful.  How do you 
do these? I have a kiln but have never tried to fuse glass.
I was at a craft show but the lady would not share her ideas.  She had a 
bottle with a lighthouse in it.  I do think it was a decal.  Where can you 
buy decals and how do you do it?  Is is hard to do?  I would love to try 
this.  Do you have to use fusible glass?  If you have any information on this 
please share.
Thank you,
Art
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 29 18:31:13 2001
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From: UserDusty@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Pictures
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:01:08 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

Checked out Glenna's bracelets.  Nice work.  I Also checked out her web page. 
 Very nice panels.

Ken O
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 29 20:32:24 2001
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: "Karen K" <giapet@softhouse.com>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: New pictures
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:16:59 PST
Message-ID: <m169f6l-0000DdC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

[In the message entitled "Re: New pictures" on Nov 29,  8:13, "Karen K" writes:]
> Kris,
> Think the horses are done with enamel decals.  Lots of patterned dichro
> too.
> I want to know how she makes the bezels.

I wrap the nugget with wire usually.

-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 29 20:46:31 2001
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X-Path: doorpi.net!mmam5
From: "Marci" <mmam5@doorpi.net>
To: <UserDusty@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Pictures
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:56:35 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@doorpi.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

I'll take one of each for Christmas . . .hint hint


----- Original Message -----
From: <UserDusty@aol.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pictures


> Hi All,
>
> Checked out Glenna's bracelets.  Nice work.  I Also checked out her web
page.
>  Very nice panels.
>
> Ken O
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 29 21:48:21 2001
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Thank you

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 30 12:02:34 2001
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From: Sherry Greer <texpenguin@yahoo.com>
To: GlassList <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: another pic. frame ?
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:00:40 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
Precedence: bulk

OK, I've heard brass, zinc, and copper u-came suggested for holding my
easel back.  So now I'd like to know, will any of these metals take
black patina?  I prefer patinating, as I'm a beginner, and the deep
black color camouflages any solder blips, etc, that I have.  I also
just like the way it looks.  Thanks again!
Sherry
PS.  Anyone have any tips on cleaning glass for foiling more quickly? 
I just cleaned 3 projects worth, all with tiny little pieces, and my
shoulders are killing me!

=====
Sherry Greer
texpenguin@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 30 13:00:57 2001
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From: mmam5@doorpi.net
To: texpenguin@yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: another pic. frame ?
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:44:39 EST
Message-ID: <200111302044.fAUKiiF52601@mail2.netacc.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Sherry,

I've haven't mastered getting patina to stick to zinc very well - some days
it does, others not. But since it is on the back of the picture frame, I
don't think it really matters. I mainly tack solder the corners and a few
key points inbetween, so there aren't very many "blips" to be hidden.  :)

I usually clean my glass pieces with water and dawn dish soap, and dry them
off very well.	Try not to handle the edges with greasy finger tips, make
sure the foil isn't old/outdated (it loses it's stickiness with age) and
you should be good to go.

Good luck!

Marci
Martin Designs

On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:00:40 -0800 (PST) Sherry Greer wrote:

> OK, I've heard brass, zinc, and copper u-came suggested for
> holding my
> easel back.  So now I'd like to know, will any of these metals
> take
> black patina?  I prefer patinating, as I'm a beginner, and the
> deep
> black color camouflages any solder blips, etc, that I have.  I
> also
> just like the way it looks.  Thanks again!
> Sherry
> PS.  Anyone have any tips on cleaning glass for foiling more
> quickly? 
> I just cleaned 3 projects worth, all with tiny little pieces, and
> my
> shoulders are killing me!
> 
> =====
> Sherry Greer
> texpenguin@yahoo.com
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just
> $8.95/month.
> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,	    please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Fri Nov 30 13:30:40 2001
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:23:00 -0800 (PST)
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X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye
From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: another pic. frame ?
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:19:43 CST 6CDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@GSA>
Organization: GSA-ORSP
Precedence: bulk

I use zinc around the bottom of my prairie lamps and find that the 
black patina (the kind especially for zinc) works quite well.  After 
washing, I usually go over the zinc with some 0000 steel wool 
before applying the patina.  Works well for me....

Kaye
-------------------------------------
Hi Sherry,

I've haven't mastered getting patina to stick to zinc very well - some days
it does, others not. But since it is on the back of the picture frame, I
don't think it really matters. I mainly tack solder the corners and a few
key points inbetween, so there aren't very many "blips" to be hidden.  :)

I usually clean my glass pieces with water and dawn dish soap, and dry them
off very well.	Try not to handle the edges with greasy finger tips, make
sure the foil isn't old/outdated (it loses it's stickiness with age) and
you should be good to go.

Good luck!

Marci
Martin Designs

On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:00:40 -0800 (PST) Sherry Greer wrote:

> OK, I've heard brass, zinc, and copper u-came suggested for
> holding my
> easel back.  So now I'd like to know, will any of these metals
> take
> black patina?  I prefer patinating, as I'm a beginner, and the
> deep
> black color camouflages any solder blips, etc, that I have.  I
> also
> just like the way it looks.  Thanks again!
> Sherry
> PS.  Anyone have any tips on cleaning glass for foiling more
> quickly? 
> I just cleaned 3 projects worth, all with tiny little pieces, and
> my
> shoulders are killing me!
> 
> =====
> Sherry Greer
> texpenguin@yahoo.com
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just
> $8.95/month.
> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,	    please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Fri Nov 30 15:02:49 2001
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:00:34 -0800 (PST)
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X-Path: juno.com!pkinnetz
From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Wow!  Glenna's work!
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:52:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@juno.com>
Precedence: bulk

BEA-U-TEE-FUL. Gorgeous stuff.

Peggy K.
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 30 15:30:48 2001
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K" <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Glenna Rand" <gjr@bungi.com>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: New pictures
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:52:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@softhouse.com>
References: <<m169f6l-0000DdC@daver.bungi.com>>
Precedence: bulk


Glenna,
Are you using a jewelry bit on them first?

Karen
giapet@softhouse.com


> [In the message entitled "Re: New pictures" on Nov 29,  8:13, "Karen
K" writes:]
> > Kris,
> > Think the horses are done with enamel decals.  Lots of patterned
dichro
> > too.
> > I want to know how she makes the bezels.
>
> I wrap the nugget with wire usually.
>
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
>


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From owner-glass Fri Nov 30 16:03:25 2001
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X-Path: juno.com!pkinnetz
From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: solder problems
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:22:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@juno.com>
Precedence: bulk

I recently bought a brand of solder at the hardware store, called
Permabond.  Has anybody used this brand of solder? I think its 50/50, at
least that is what I remember seeing somewhere in the store, maybe on the
carton.  It's nowhere on the label. It just doesn't seem to flow very
well at all.  I also have a beading tip on my iron (Weller 80), that I'm
not sure, but may be a 700deg. tip. It has a 7 printed on the bottom.
Would this be part of the problem, if the iron isn't getting hot enough? 


Just for information purposes, what solder melts the fastest and which is
the slowest?  50/50 or 60/40 or 63/37 and what about leadfree solder? I
tried Avril 60/40 solder, and it flows okay with this tip. Actually the
Avril 50/50 which I used almost exclusively, did fine too. How can two
50/50 solders be so very different? 

Peggy K.
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 30 18:57:08 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: mmam5@doorpi.net
Subject: Re: Stained Glass Box
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 07:57:54 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<200111282145.fASLjf621409@mail2.netacc.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Marcie,

If the hinge tube is not long enough, you can make a piano hinge by
cutting the tube into 1 and 1/2 or 2 inch sections.  solder the tube
pieces alternately to the lid and back.  Insert thick copper or brass
wire and solder the wire to the sides.

Steve

In message <200111282145.fASLjf621409@mail2.netacc.net>,
mmam5@doorpi.net writes
>I've made jewelry boxes before, but not any larger than 8" x 4". I've
>recently had someone ask for a jewelry box larger than 8" x 4", so I was
>thinking either 10" x 6" or would 12" x 8" still be a sturdy size. The
>pattern is a double rainbow and the bigger size would allow for more
>detail. 
>
>>From a stability standpoint, would it even be wise to go any larger than
>either of these sizes? Does the hinge material even come in that length?
>If I use the 12" x 8" size should I put dividers inside the box to form
>compartments and also help hold up the lid?
>
>Any comments or ideas would be most welcome.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Marci
>Martin Designs
>
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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