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From: "Jones B.S." <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: "'Glass@bungi.com'" <Glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: RE: Painting on glass
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 09:25:54 +0100 
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@bham.ac.uk>
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subject: Painting on glass


Answer to Greg  from BSJ

Hi,
I have a couple of examples of paint on glass that are many years old. The
paint used was a water based acryllic paint of german manufacture. Yes it
works but it is only suitable for indoor glass and it deteriorates in strong
UV light.I can only quote the UK but I am pretty sure that it is sold world
wide.
It is sold here in the DIY stores art shops and by specialists such as james
Hetley.Like all paints it is only as good as the base it is put on. When I
used it on one of my recent pieces the surface was prepped first using
hydrofluoric acid to give the glass a matt finish so that the glass would be
totally clean and have a surface to hold the paint. I have seen precision
hand painted sun catchers and have one of these painted by a real artist of
quality. In the instructions they specify put it in the window in winter and
take it out and hang indoors in summer.My example is 25 years old and is
still perfect.

Brandon S. Jones (UK)



no  it is not the    Dumb question of the day:

>Is there any type of paint that can be used on glass with out firing the =
>project in a kiln after?  I am making a panel of a sleddog team with =
>driver and sled.  It would be easier to paint the harness etc on the =
>dogs rather than using glass or solder joints.  Thank you in advance

>Greg
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From owner-glass Tue May  1 04:32:22 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Painting on glass
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 07:22:16 -0400
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Message text written by "Greg"
>Dumb question of the day:

Is there any type of paint that can be used on glass with out firing the =
=3D
project in a kiln after?  I am making a panel of a sleddog team with =3D
driver and sled.  It would be easier to paint the harness etc on the =3D
dogs rather than using glass or solder joints.  Thank you in advance

Greg<

Not a dumb question.  There are several non-fire or low-fire glass paints=

now available.  Just remember that they will not be permanate, but with
proper care, can last for decades.  I've got one still going after 10
years.
Ask your local stained glass retailer.  I use Deca Brand paints.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Tue May  1 06:32:25 2001
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From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Door Insert
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 09:24:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@bright.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi to All!! I have a front door that I would like to make a panel for. the
door is 122 years old. My question is, can I put the S.G. panel on the
interior side of the original glass? The window is 21" wide and 29" long. I
have a space on the inside of the window frame 1/2" deep, so the panel
wouldn't be against the original glass. If I use panel clips, would this
work? This door faces west, and in the winter that's where most of our wind
comes from.
Thanks in advance!
Sarah
May your day be as beautiful as you are...!

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From owner-glass Tue May  1 10:32:34 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Painting on glass
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 07:22:11 -0400
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Message text written by Steve Richard
>Be careful when painting onto opalescent glass, as it some times changes=

colour.  Run a test first.<

No kidding.  Last month I was trying to slump a hummingbird wing over a
mold.  Trying for a red wing.  Used Wissmach cathedral
red.  After slumping I had the most vibrant screaming YELLOW hummingbird
wing I could ever imagine.  Tied Spectrum red wispy
next.  Got red on the inside and ORANGE on the outside.  Gave up.  Anyone=

know of a red which will stay red after firing?

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Tue May  1 11:27:18 2001
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: GSORENSON@mn.rr.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ad.a3521c7.282055da_boundary"
Subject: Re: Painting on glass
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 14:09:30 EDT
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In a message dated 4/30/01 10:26:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
GSORENSON@mn.rr.com writes:


> Is there any type of paint that can be used on glass with out firing the =
> project in a kiln after?  I am making a panel of a sleddog team with =
> driver and sled.  It would be easier to paint the harness etc on the =
> dogs rather than using glass or solder joints.  

I do not know of a good paint for really lasting cold work on glass. You 
might make the harness from overlayed wire soldered as necessary. I have done 
this to good effect.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
will close soon.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><B>In a message dated 4/30/01 10:26:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
<BR>GSORENSON@mn.rr.com writes:
<BR>
<BR></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Is there any type of paint that can be used on glass with out firing the =
<BR>project in a kiln after? &nbsp;I am making a panel of a sleddog team with =
<BR>driver and sled. &nbsp;It would be easier to paint the harness etc on the =
<BR>dogs rather than using glass or solder joints. &nbsp;Thank you in advance</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR><B>
<BR>I do not know of a good paint for really lasting cold work on glass. You 
<BR>might make the harness from overlayed wire soldered as necessary. I have done 
<BR>this to good effect.
<BR>
<BR>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
<BR>New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
<BR>will close soon.</B></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue May  1 11:34:51 2001
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From: "Jerri Roey" <beadbimbo@amexol.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: plane pattern?
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 13:51:35 -0400
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I know there's a book with plane patterns out there, does anyone know if it
has a Stearman Biplane in it?

Thanks,

Jerri

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From owner-glass Tue May  1 11:56:29 2001
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Content-Type:  multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_73.d501563.282058fb_boundary"
Subject: Re: Painting on glass
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 14:22:51 EDT
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In a message dated 5/1/01 10:33:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
Ensembles@compuserve.com writes:


> .  Last month I was trying to slump a hummingbird wing over a
> mold.  Trying for a red wing.  Used Wissmach cathedral
> red.  After slumping I had the most vibrant screaming YELLOW hummingbird
> wing I could ever imagine.  Tied Spectrum red wispy
> next.  Got red on the inside and ORANGE on the outside.  Gave up.  Anyone=
> 
> know of a red which will stay red after firing?
> 

Most reds will not strike if fired fast. Fire as fast as you can once the 
project has reached 1050'F and flash vent down to 1050'F after the heat work 
is done. I have used this technique with Spectrum and other reds to good 
effect.

Did you consider that Someone might be trying to tell you to make a hummer 
with yellow wings? Could sell.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
will close soon.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><B>In a message dated 5/1/01 10:33:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
<BR>Ensembles@compuserve.com writes:
<BR>
<BR></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">. &nbsp;Last month I was trying to slump a hummingbird wing over a
<BR>mold. &nbsp;Trying for a red wing. &nbsp;Used Wissmach cathedral
<BR>red. &nbsp;After slumping I had the most vibrant screaming YELLOW hummingbird
<BR>wing I could ever imagine. &nbsp;Tied Spectrum red wispy
<BR>next. &nbsp;Got red on the inside and ORANGE on the outside. &nbsp;Gave up. &nbsp;Anyone=
<BR>
<BR>know of a red which will stay red after firing?
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR><B>
<BR>Most reds will not strike if fired fast. Fire as fast as you can once the 
<BR>project has reached 1050'F and flash vent down to 1050'F after the heat work 
<BR>is done. I have used this technique with Spectrum and other reds to good 
<BR>effect.
<BR>
<BR>Did you consider that Someone might be trying to tell you to make a hummer 
<BR>with yellow wings? Could sell.
<BR>
<BR>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
<BR>New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
<BR>will close soon.</B></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue May  1 16:22:58 2001
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X-Path: gdi.net!shodge
From: Southern Exposure <shodge@gdi.net>
To: Bobfuses@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Painting on glass
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 18:59:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@gdi.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Organization: Southern Exposure
Precedence: bulk

Bobfuses@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 5/1/01 10:33:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> Ensembles@compuserve.com writes:
> 
>      .  Last month I was trying to slump a hummingbird wing over
>      a
>      mold.  Trying for a red wing.  Used Wissmach cathedral
>      red.  After slumping I had the most vibrant screaming YELLOW
>      hummingbird
>      wing I could ever imagine.  Tied Spectrum red wispy
>      next.  Got red on the inside and ORANGE on the outside.
>       Gave up.  Anyone=
> 
>      know of a red which will stay red after firing?
> 
> Most reds will not strike if fired fast. Fire as fast as you can once
> the
> project has reached 1050'F and flash vent down to 1050'F after the
> heat work
> is done. I have used this technique with Spectrum and other reds to
> good
> effect.
> 
> Did you consider that Someone might be trying to tell you to make a
> hummer
> with yellow wings? Could sell.
> 
> Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
> New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This
> account
> will close soon.
For best results try either Bullseye Uroborus both are designed to
strike correctly. They are a bit pricy but you get what you pay for.

Skip
Southern Exposure Stained Glass Supply, Inc.
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From owner-glass Tue May  1 17:16:59 2001
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From: mim111@webtv.net (Mary Maroney)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Overlays
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 20:10:48 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@webtv.net>
Precedence: bulk


Newbie here.  Just finished all parts for an overlay. Don't know if I
fasten themto the soldered seams of the under piece and don't know how
to fasten flower stems of wire.
Would be happy to have someone save me.

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From owner-glass Tue May  1 19:55:51 2001
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From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: kiln terms
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 22:59:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@juno.com>
Precedence: bulk

Ok, I need some translation here since I'm not very familiar with kilns,
but am dreaming to get one in the near future, as soon as a second hand
one beomes available. What does flash vent mean?  And strike?There are
other terms tha I've come across but don't really know what they mean
(but can't remember at the moment what they were  ;-0    ).  

Peggy K.



Most reds will not strike if fired fast. Fire as fast as you can once the

project has reached 1050'F and flash vent down to 1050'F after the heat
work 
is done. I have used this technique with Spectrum and other reds to good 
effect. 

Did you consider that Someone might be trying to tell you to make a
hummer 
with yellow wings? Could sell. 
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From owner-glass Tue May  1 21:28:11 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Painting on glass
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 00:08:51 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Folks...I'm forwarding this reply to the bungi group.  Please remember th=
at when you
reply to a bungi.com email, you have to send it to glass@bungi.com, not j=
ust hitting the
REPLY key.  That only sends one copy to the most recent email originator.=
  For the record...
I was replying to a bungi.com request for info about glass paints.  I am =
not the originator
of the thread.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:	INTERNET:cecnralph@home.com, INTERNET:cecnralph@home.com
To:	"Christie A. Wood", Ensembles
	=

Date:	05/01/2001  8:56 AM

RE:	Re: Painting on glass

 =

There is a no-fire brand from Eastman, sorry I can't remember the name.  =
The
same paint is also used on the pewter castings often used in glass work.
Color Magic?  It is often sold in glass supply shops.

In addition, there is a brand of both ceramic and glass paints (one is op=
aque
and the other translucent but they both can be used on glass or ceramic) =
by a
French company called Pebeo (pronounced pee-bee-oh) that is being used
extensively on glass and ceramic eating dishes, glassware for dringing,
picture frames, etc.  You will see glassware so decorated often in gift
shops, like Hallmark, or in florests/nurseries.  This is painted on, then=

fired to around 300=BA Farenheit in a normal kitchen oven.  It is claimed=
 that
this is dishwasher-proof.  I have a few pieces, which do indeed survive t=
he
dishwasher - but for how long I do not know.  And I know the surface was =
not
etched before the paint was applied.  These can be had at JoAnne's, Micha=
el's
or the equivalent large craft stores.

There are several other kinds of glass "paints" available from non-glass
crafts places and they are totally worthless, even on sale!!!!!  One bran=
d is
Plaid, and is sometimes sold in glass supply places.

Remember that a no or low fire paint will only last given extremely good
care.  That said, however, even a high fire glass paint or enamal is
vulnerable to weathering (don't put it in a window with the paint side ou=
t),
especially in todays weather with acid rain and smog, and it is also
vulnerable to vigorous cleaning with common chemicals, or scrubbing.(most=
 apt
to occur when paint side is inside) by a misguided cleanliness freak.

I wouldn't hesitate to use either of the two paints I've indicated for
projects like suncatchers to be sold as cheaply as possible, but I would
acconpany any sales of such with a care statement, advising washing rarel=
y
and with only a gentle dishwashing detergent meant for hand washing, and =
not
not to use any abrasives, acidic or caustic substances like window cleane=
rs
or all-purpose kitchen/bathroom cleaners (which can literally etch glass)=
.  I
would also have used  glass waxing or car waxing (liquid Turtle wax is go=
od)
on the piece before selling.

I know of at least one nationally known glass artist who carves glass and=

then paints it, who uses no or low fire paint (airbrushed) on the etched
glass, and then adds a layer of urethane "varnish", in this case common D=
utch
Boy aerosol.  These are art pieces, not meant for use.  Hope this helps -=

Cecily

"Christie A. Wood" wrote:

> Message text written by "Greg"
> >Dumb question of the day:
>
> Is there any type of paint that can be used on glass with out firing th=
e =3D
> =3D3D
> project in a kiln after?  I am making a panel of a sleddog team with =3D=
3D
> driver and sled.  It would be easier to paint the harness etc on the =3D=
3D
> dogs rather than using glass or solder joints.  Thank you in advance
>
> Greg<
>
> Not a dumb question.  There are several non-fire or low-fire glass pain=
ts=3D
>
> now available.  Just remember that they will not be permanate, but with=

> proper care, can last for decades.  I've got one still going after 10
> years.
> Ask your local stained glass retailer.  I use Deca Brand paints.
>
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass





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From owner-glass Tue May  1 22:01:33 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Painting on glass
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 00:09:04 -0400
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Message text written by INTERNET:Bobfuses@aol.com
>Most reds will not strike if fired fast. Fire as fast as you can once th=
e =

project has reached 1050'F and flash vent down to 1050'F after the heat
work =

is done. I have used this technique with Spectrum and other reds to good =

effect.

Did you consider that Someone might be trying to tell you to make a humme=
r =

with yellow wings? Could sell.<

Ha.  Wish I could.  Unfortunately, this was a repair, trying to match
existing glass.  Gave up.  Not worth my time or the client's time.

As to firing fast....I've got a rather large kiln and it takes 3 hours to=

reach 1000 degrees.  Don't think that's fast enough for Spectrum?

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Tue May  1 22:03:37 2001
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: kiln terms
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 00:09:07 -0400
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Message text written by Peggy L Kinnetz
>What does flash vent mean?  And strike?There are
other terms tha I've come across but don't really know what they mean
(but can't remember at the moment what they were  ;-0    ).  =


Peggy K.<

Flash vent: Opening up the door of the kiln for a few (between 8 to 20
seconds) when it's at its maximum temperature (say, 1500 degrees), in ord=
er
to suddenly cool down the interior temperature of the kiln and stop any
further melting of the glass.  Most folk flash vent from max temperature
down to around 1000 degrees, then close the door and let the kiln anneal
normally down to room temperature.

Strike: To change color when remelted in a kiln.  Reds are notorious for
changing color unexpectedly.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Tue May  1 22:30:21 2001
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
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Subject: Re: Painting on glass
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 01:06:13 -0400
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Christie - every so often I hit the send button before realizing I didn't
also specify Bungi.  Especially late at nite which seems to be mostly the only
time I ever get to do email. - Cec

"Christie A. Wood" wrote:

> Folks...I'm forwarding this reply to the bungi group.  Please remember th=
> at when you
> reply to a bungi.com email, you have to send it to glass@bungi.com, not j=
> ust hitting the
> REPLY key.  That only sends one copy to the most recent email originator.=
>   For the record...
> I was replying to a bungi.com request for info about glass paints.  I am =
> not the originator
> of the thread.
>
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA
>
> -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
>
> From:   INTERNET:cecnralph@home.com, INTERNET:cecnralph@home.com
> To:     "Christie A. Wood", Ensembles
>         =
>
> Date:   05/01/2001  8:56 AM
>
> RE:     Re: Painting on glass
>
>  =
>
> There is a no-fire brand from Eastman, sorry I can't remember the name.  =
> The
> same paint is also used on the pewter castings often used in glass work.
> Color Magic?  It is often sold in glass supply shops.
>
> In addition, there is a brand of both ceramic and glass paints (one is op=
> aque
> and the other translucent but they both can be used on glass or ceramic) =
> by a
> French company called Pebeo (pronounced pee-bee-oh) that is being used
> extensively on glass and ceramic eating dishes, glassware for dringing,
> picture frames, etc.  You will see glassware so decorated often in gift
> shops, like Hallmark, or in florests/nurseries.  This is painted on, then=
>
> fired to around 300=BA Farenheit in a normal kitchen oven.  It is claimed=
>  that
> this is dishwasher-proof.  I have a few pieces, which do indeed survive t=
> he
> dishwasher - but for how long I do not know.  And I know the surface was =
> not
> etched before the paint was applied.  These can be had at JoAnne's, Micha=
> el's
> or the equivalent large craft stores.
>
> There are several other kinds of glass "paints" available from non-glass
> crafts places and they are totally worthless, even on sale!!!!!  One bran=
> d is
> Plaid, and is sometimes sold in glass supply places.
>
> Remember that a no or low fire paint will only last given extremely good
> care.  That said, however, even a high fire glass paint or enamal is
> vulnerable to weathering (don't put it in a window with the paint side ou=
> t),
> especially in todays weather with acid rain and smog, and it is also
> vulnerable to vigorous cleaning with common chemicals, or scrubbing.(most=
>  apt
> to occur when paint side is inside) by a misguided cleanliness freak.
>
> I wouldn't hesitate to use either of the two paints I've indicated for
> projects like suncatchers to be sold as cheaply as possible, but I would
> acconpany any sales of such with a care statement, advising washing rarel=
> y
> and with only a gentle dishwashing detergent meant for hand washing, and =
> not
> not to use any abrasives, acidic or caustic substances like window cleane=
> rs
> or all-purpose kitchen/bathroom cleaners (which can literally etch glass)=
> .  I
> would also have used  glass waxing or car waxing (liquid Turtle wax is go=
> od)
> on the piece before selling.
>
> I know of at least one nationally known glass artist who carves glass and=
>
> then paints it, who uses no or low fire paint (airbrushed) on the etched
> glass, and then adds a layer of urethane "varnish", in this case common D=
> utch
> Boy aerosol.  These are art pieces, not meant for use.  Hope this helps -=
>
> Cecily
>
> "Christie A. Wood" wrote:
>
> > Message text written by "Greg"
> > >Dumb question of the day:
> >
> > Is there any type of paint that can be used on glass with out firing th=
> e =3D
> > =3D3D
> > project in a kiln after?  I am making a panel of a sleddog team with =3D=
> 3D
> > driver and sled.  It would be easier to paint the harness etc on the =3D=
> 3D
> > dogs rather than using glass or solder joints.  Thank you in advance
> >
> > Greg<
> >
> > Not a dumb question.  There are several non-fire or low-fire glass pain=
> ts=3D
> >
> > now available.  Just remember that they will not be permanate, but with=
>
> > proper care, can last for decades.  I've got one still going after 10
> > years.
> > Ask your local stained glass retailer.  I use Deca Brand paints.
> >
> > Christie A. Wood
> > North Wales, PA USA
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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> Subject: Re: Painting on glass
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From owner-glass Wed May  2 09:26:33 2001
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To: pkinnetz@juno.com, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: kiln terms
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:56:53 EDT
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In a message dated 5/1/01 7:57:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, pkinnetz@juno.com 
writes:


> Ok, I need some translation here since I'm not very familiar with kilns,
> but am dreaming to get one in the near future, as soon as a second hand
> one beomes available. What does flash vent mean?  And strike?There are
> other terms tha I've come across but don't really know what they mean
> (but can't remember at the moment what they were  ;-0    ).  
> 
> Peggy K.
> 

Peggy, you simply must go to <A HREF="http://store.aolshopdirect.com/stores/gx.cgi/Display4?GSStore=aoldir&prd_id=13013&tpl=templates/spud&dep_id=D-5126&o_c=AOL1">http://www.warmglass.com</A>

Your questions will be well answered.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
will close soon.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><B>In a message dated 5/1/01 7:57:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, pkinnetz@juno.com 
<BR>writes:
<BR>
<BR></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ok, I need some translation here since I'm not very familiar with kilns,
<BR>but am dreaming to get one in the near future, as soon as a second hand
<BR>one beomes available. What does flash vent mean? &nbsp;And strike?There are
<BR>other terms tha I've come across but don't really know what they mean
<BR>(but can't remember at the moment what they were &nbsp;;-0 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;). &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>Peggy K.
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR><B>
<BR>Peggy, you simply must go to <A HREF="http://store.aolshopdirect.com/stores/gx.cgi/Display4?GSStore=aoldir&prd_id=13013&tpl=templates/spud&dep_id=D-5126&o_c=AOL1">http://www.warmglass.com</A>
<BR>
<BR>Your questions will be well answered.
<BR>
<BR>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
<BR>New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
<BR>will close soon.</B></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed May  2 09:33:33 2001
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: Ensembles@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_bb.e0e67b7.28218b11_boundary"
Subject: Re: Painting on glass
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 12:08:49 EDT
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In a message dated 5/1/01 10:02:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
Ensembles@compuserve.com writes:


> Did you consider that Someone might be trying to tell you to make a humme=
> r =
> 
> with yellow wings? Could sell.<
> 
> Ha.  Wish I could.  Unfortunately, this was a repair, trying to match
> existing glass.  Gave up.  Not worth my time or the client's time.
> 
> As to firing fast....I've got a rather large kiln and it takes 3 hours to=
> 
> reach 1000 degrees.  Don't think that's fast enough for Spectrum?
> 
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA
> 

I was thinking of firing at 1000'F or more an hour. I have a large kiln that 
will fire fast but a small kiln like a Hot Box or a Quickfire is what would 
be best here. When using these small fast kilns I rarely have problems with 
striking. For some reason, beyond me, I also seem to have less compatibility 
problems when firing fast. Don't ask me to think why.

Caution: Firing faster than 600'F per hour will break a 26" round kiln shelf. 
I know because I did it TWICE.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
will close soon.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><B>In a message dated 5/1/01 10:02:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
<BR>Ensembles@compuserve.com writes:
<BR>
<BR></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Did you consider that Someone might be trying to tell you to make a humme=
<BR>r =
<BR>
<BR>with yellow wings? Could sell.&lt;
<BR>
<BR>Ha. &nbsp;Wish I could. &nbsp;Unfortunately, this was a repair, trying to match
<BR>existing glass. &nbsp;Gave up. &nbsp;Not worth my time or the client's time.
<BR>
<BR>As to firing fast....I've got a rather large kiln and it takes 3 hours to=
<BR>
<BR>reach 1000 degrees. &nbsp;Don't think that's fast enough for Spectrum?
<BR>
<BR>Christie A. Wood
<BR>North Wales, PA USA
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR><B>
<BR>I was thinking of firing at 1000'F or more an hour. I have a large kiln that 
<BR>will fire fast but a small kiln like a Hot Box or a Quickfire is what would 
<BR>be best here. When using these small fast kilns I rarely have problems with 
<BR>striking. For some reason, beyond me, I also seem to have less compatibility 
<BR>problems when firing fast. Don't ask me to think why.
<BR>
<BR>Caution: Firing faster than 600'F per hour will break a 26" round kiln shelf. 
<BR>I know because I did it TWICE.
<BR>
<BR>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
<BR>New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
<BR>will close soon.</B></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed May  2 10:33:36 2001
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From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: <pkinnetz@juno.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: kiln terms
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 13:21:42 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Peggy,
Hey if we here of any kilns in this area for sale I'll let you know.As for the striking of colors in a kiln it refers to the glass losing its original color and it generally happens to reds,but I have had a lot of success with the firing of red spectrum just recently we did some dragonfly's for a project and I tried all spectrum Irridized glass with a clear base,as for the irridecense it burned off but the colors remained intact and were very vibrant,especially the red,and I too have a large slow firing kiln.The flash venting that I do is generally not down to 1000 degrees I usually just vent the kiln enough to make sure that the temperature is falling and not still rising,mainly because it is going to usually sit overnight before I can open it again anyway.
Beveler4 (Stan)
P.S. I have a new web site address check it out.Pics of the Dragonfly's will be there sometime next week I hope.
home.fusenet/glassshack/index.html
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From owner-glass Wed May  2 11:03:10 2001
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: kiln terms
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:39:53 EDT
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In a message dated 5/2/01 9:27:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Bobfuses@aol.com 
writes:


> Peggy, you simply must go to <A HREF="http://store.aolshopdirect.com/stores/gx.cgi/Display4?GSStore=aoldir&prd_id=13013&tpl=templates/spud&dep_id=D-5126&o_c=AOL1">
> http://store.aolshopdirect.com/stores/gx.cgi/Display4?GSStore=aoldir&
> prd_id=13013&tpl=templates/spud&dep_id=D-5126&o_c=AOL1</A> 
> 
> Your questions will be well answered. 
> 

Not there! Sorry for the wrong link. Try this.

<A HREF="http://www.warmglass.com/index.htm">Warm Glass</A>

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
will close soon.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><B>In a message dated 5/2/01 9:27:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Bobfuses@aol.com 
<BR>writes:
<BR>
<BR></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Peggy, you simply must go to <A HREF="http://store.aolshopdirect.com/stores/gx.cgi/Display4?GSStore=aoldir&prd_id=13013&tpl=templates/spud&dep_id=D-5126&o_c=AOL1">
<BR>http://store.aolshopdirect.com/stores/gx.cgi/Display4?GSStore=aoldir&amp;
<BR>prd_id=13013&amp;tpl=templates/spud&amp;dep_id=D-5126&amp;o_c=AOL1</A> 
<BR>
<BR>Your questions will be well answered. 
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR><B>
<BR>Not there! Sorry for the wrong link. Try this.
<BR>
<BR><A HREF="http://www.warmglass.com/index.htm">Warm Glass</A>
<BR>
<BR>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
<BR>New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
<BR>will close soon.</B></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed May  2 12:31:38 2001
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To: Beveler4@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: kiln terms
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:49:39 EDT
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In a message dated 5/2/01 10:34:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Beveler4@aol.com 
writes:


> I tried all spectrum Irridized glass with a clear base,as for the 
> 

I have had good luck firing Spectrum Irridized glass with the irrid side DOWN 
when going to 1450'F at 300'F per hour. The irrid is intensified and not 
burned off with this program. Fired irrid side up and the irrid would be gone.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
will close soon.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><B>In a message dated 5/2/01 10:34:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Beveler4@aol.com 
<BR>writes:
<BR>
<BR></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I tried all spectrum Irridized glass with a clear base,as for the 
<BR>irridecense it burned off </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR><B>
<BR>I have had good luck firing Spectrum Irridized glass with the irrid side DOWN 
<BR>when going to 1450'F at 300'F per hour. The irrid is intensified and not 
<BR>burned off with this program. Fired irrid side up and the irrid would be gone.
<BR>
<BR>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
<BR>New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
<BR>will close soon.</B></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed May  2 13:01:15 2001
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: kiln terms
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 12:35:25 -0700 
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

spectrum has documented on their site that the irridizing burns off.
bullseye doesn't.

regards,
charlie
phx, az
-----Original Message-----
From: Bobfuses@aol.com [mailto:Bobfuses@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:50 AM
To: Beveler4@aol.com; glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: kiln terms


In a message dated 5/2/01 10:34:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Beveler4@aol.com 
writes: 



I tried all spectrum Irridized glass with a clear base,as for the 
irridecense it burned off 


I have had good luck firing Spectrum Irridized glass with the irrid side
DOWN 
when going to 1450'F at 300'F per hour. The irrid is intensified and not 
burned off with this program. Fired irrid side up and the irrid would be
gone. 

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6 
New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
will close soon. 
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From owner-glass Wed May  2 15:37:00 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Painting on glass
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 08:39:26 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Christie,
        Red Desag cathedral, St Just reds, Lambert reds, Armstrong red,
Spectrum red opal, and Polish antique (Casimir, I think the US suppliers
call it) all work for me.  I use a paragon glass kiln, keep the vents
closed and use minimum temperatures with long soaks.

Steve


In message <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>, Christie A. Wood
<Ensembles@compuserve.com> writes
>Message text written by Steve Richard
>>Be careful when painting onto opalescent glass, as it some times changes=
>
>colour.  Run a test first.<
>
>No kidding.  Last month I was trying to slump a hummingbird wing over a
>mold.  Trying for a red wing.  Used Wissmach cathedral
>red.  After slumping I had the most vibrant screaming YELLOW hummingbird
>wing I could ever imagine.  Tied Spectrum red wispy
>next.  Got red on the inside and ORANGE on the outside.  Gave up.  Anyone=
>
>know of a red which will stay red after firing?
>
>Christie A. Wood
>North Wales, PA USA
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Wed May  2 15:42:58 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Subject: Rapid firing of spectrum glass
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 09:04:43 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Spectrum have a page on their web site about fusing, giving their ideal
rates of advance.
        I have found it is possible to fuse without colour loss by
taking the temperature up as fast as they recommend, but cooling very
rapidly, with no soak at the top temperature.  For slumping of Spectrum
I also use a higher temperature than for other glasses, but cool rapidly
as soon as the desired slump has occurred.  This avoids devitrification.
I have not had the colour change you experienced.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>, Christie A. Wood
<Ensembles@compuserve.com> writes
>Message text written by INTERNET:Bobfuses@aol.com
>>Most reds will not strike if fired fast. Fire as fast as you can once th=
>e =
>
>project has reached 1050'F and flash vent down to 1050'F after the heat
>work =
>
>is done. I have used this technique with Spectrum and other reds to good =
>
>effect.
>
>Did you consider that Someone might be trying to tell you to make a humme=
>r =
>
>with yellow wings? Could sell.<
>
>Ha.  Wish I could.  Unfortunately, this was a repair, trying to match
>existing glass.  Gave up.  Not worth my time or the client's time.
>
>As to firing fast....I've got a rather large kiln and it takes 3 hours to=
>
>reach 1000 degrees.  Don't think that's fast enough for Spectrum?
>
>Christie A. Wood
>North Wales, PA USA
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Wed May  2 16:02:20 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
Subject: Re: kiln terms
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 08:57:27 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@juno.com>>
Precedence: bulk

I'm sure Bob will help you here, Peggy.

A flash vent is rapid cooling, by opening all the vents, is you have
large ones, or by opening the door, until the kiln temperature is
slightly above the upper strain point or annealing point, depending on
how brave you may be.

Colour strike I'm sure has a proper definition, but to me means a colour
change.  Many reds are made under reducing conditions, but most of our
kilns have oxidising atmospheres in them, so allowing the glass to
change colour.  For example if you put a Corella red into the kiln to
fuse, it will come out a brown/orange.

Have a look at Brad Walkers Warm Glass site for a lot of information.
www.warmglass.com

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@juno.com>, Peggy L Kinnetz
<pkinnetz@juno.com> writes
>Ok, I need some translation here since I'm not very familiar with kilns,
>but am dreaming to get one in the near future, as soon as a second hand
>one beomes available. What does flash vent mean?  And strike?There are
>other terms tha I've come across but don't really know what they mean
>(but can't remember at the moment what they were  ;-0    ).  
>
>Peggy K.
>
>
>
>Most reds will not strike if fired fast. Fire as fast as you can once the
>
>project has reached 1050'F and flash vent down to 1050'F after the heat
>work 
>is done. I have used this technique with Spectrum and other reds to good 
>effect. 
>
>Did you consider that Someone might be trying to tell you to make a
>hummer 
>with yellow wings? Could sell. 
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Wed May  2 16:34:05 2001
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From: "Mary E. Downing" <BDowning@uwyo.edu>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Painting on glass
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 16:43:12 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@uwyo.edu>
Precedence: bulk

Hello all,

Just thought I would add this to the discussion. The shop where I get my
glass supplies and instruction sends out a newsletter each month.  I just
got this month's issue and there was some information about the Pebeo paint
mentioned below. The "We" in the quote is Betty (the store owner) and any
willing participants that might have been in the store when these tests were
being done.

"We have been playing with a couple of different types of glass paints. We
have found that the Vitrea 160 made by Pebeo is an easy to use water based
glass paint. After this paint is applied to your glass it needs to dry for
24 hours and then baked in your home oven for 40 minutes at 325 degrees F.
On our practice piece of glass we put it through a series of tests. We ran
it through a dishwasher cycle, used acetone on it, and soldered on it (with
lots of flux). It passed all of these tests. We did discover that it can be
scratched when you attack it with a craft knife and lots of effort. But we
were really trying to get it off when we tried this part of our test. I
would recommend the use of these paints for those projects where you want a
painted detail. This paint comes in lots of colors."  

I have not used any of these paints yet, but Betty usually does not
recommend I, or anyone else use a product that she does not think will give
a satisfactory result and would not use herself. I thought her experience
might assist those on the list

Beth

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Christie A. Wood [SMTP:Ensembles@compuserve.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, May 01, 2001 10:09 PM
> To:	Bungi
> Subject:	Re: Painting on glass
> 
> Folks...I'm forwarding this reply to the bungi group.  Please remember th=
> at when you
> reply to a bungi.com email, you have to send it to glass@bungi.com, not j=
> ust hitting the
> REPLY key.  That only sends one copy to the most recent email originator.=
>   For the record...
> I was replying to a bungi.com request for info about glass paints.  I am =
> not the originator
> of the thread.
> 
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA
> 
> -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
> 
> From:	INTERNET:cecnralph@home.com, INTERNET:cecnralph@home.com
> To:	"Christie A. Wood", Ensembles
> 	=
> 
> Date:	05/01/2001  8:56 AM
> 
> RE:	Re: Painting on glass
> 
>  =
> 
> There is a no-fire brand from Eastman, sorry I can't remember the name.  =
> The
> same paint is also used on the pewter castings often used in glass work.
> Color Magic?  It is often sold in glass supply shops.
> 
> In addition, there is a brand of both ceramic and glass paints (one is op=
> aque
> and the other translucent but they both can be used on glass or ceramic) =
> by a
> French company called Pebeo (pronounced pee-bee-oh) that is being used
> extensively on glass and ceramic eating dishes, glassware for dringing,
> picture frames, etc.  You will see glassware so decorated often in gift
> shops, like Hallmark, or in florests/nurseries.  This is painted on, then=
> 
> fired to around 300=BA Farenheit in a normal kitchen oven.  It is claimed=
>  that
> this is dishwasher-proof.  I have a few pieces, which do indeed survive t=
> he
> dishwasher - but for how long I do not know.  And I know the surface was =
> not
> etched before the paint was applied.  These can be had at JoAnne's, Micha=
> el's
> or the equivalent large craft stores.
> 
> There are several other kinds of glass "paints" available from non-glass
> crafts places and they are totally worthless, even on sale!!!!!  One bran=
> d is
> Plaid, and is sometimes sold in glass supply places.
> 
> Remember that a no or low fire paint will only last given extremely good
> care.  That said, however, even a high fire glass paint or enamal is
> vulnerable to weathering (don't put it in a window with the paint side ou=
> t),
> especially in todays weather with acid rain and smog, and it is also
> vulnerable to vigorous cleaning with common chemicals, or scrubbing.(most=
>  apt
> to occur when paint side is inside) by a misguided cleanliness freak.
> 
> I wouldn't hesitate to use either of the two paints I've indicated for
> projects like suncatchers to be sold as cheaply as possible, but I would
> acconpany any sales of such with a care statement, advising washing rarel=
> y
> and with only a gentle dishwashing detergent meant for hand washing, and =
> not
> not to use any abrasives, acidic or caustic substances like window cleane=
> rs
> or all-purpose kitchen/bathroom cleaners (which can literally etch glass)=
> .  I
> would also have used  glass waxing or car waxing (liquid Turtle wax is go=
> od)
> on the piece before selling.
> 
> I know of at least one nationally known glass artist who carves glass and=
> 
> then paints it, who uses no or low fire paint (airbrushed) on the etched
> glass, and then adds a layer of urethane "varnish", in this case common D=
> utch
> Boy aerosol.  These are art pieces, not meant for use.  Hope this helps -=
> 
> Cecily
> 
> "Christie A. Wood" wrote:
> 
> > Message text written by "Greg"
> > >Dumb question of the day:
> >
> > Is there any type of paint that can be used on glass with out firing th=
> e =3D
> > =3D3D
> > project in a kiln after?  I am making a panel of a sleddog team with
> =3D=
> 3D
> > driver and sled.  It would be easier to paint the harness etc on the
> =3D=
> 3D
> > dogs rather than using glass or solder joints.  Thank you in advance
> >
> > Greg<
> >
> > Not a dumb question.  There are several non-fire or low-fire glass pain=
> ts=3D
> >
> > now available.  Just remember that they will not be permanate, but with=
> 
> > proper care, can last for decades.  I've got one still going after 10
> > years.
> > Ask your local stained glass retailer.  I use Deca Brand paints.
> >
> > Christie A. Wood
> > North Wales, PA USA
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Subject: Re: kiln terms
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 20:13:17 EDT
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In a message dated 5/2/01 1:01:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com writes:


> spectrum has documented on their site that the irridizing burns off.
> bullseye doesn't.
> 
> regards,
> charlie
> phx, az
> 

Charlie, it just goes to prove that I know something about Spectrum glass 
that they do not. Spectrum fired to 1450'F at a rate of 300'F per hour, or a 
higher rate, retains the irrd when the irrd is fired DOWN. Try it and you may 
like the results.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
will close soon.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><B>In a message dated 5/2/01 1:01:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
<BR>Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com writes:
<BR>
<BR></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">spectrum has documented on their site that the irridizing burns off.
<BR>bullseye doesn't.
<BR>
<BR>regards,
<BR>charlie
<BR>phx, az
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR><B>
<BR>Charlie, it just goes to prove that I know something about Spectrum glass 
<BR>that they do not. Spectrum fired to 1450'F at a rate of 300'F per hour, or a 
<BR>higher rate, retains the irrd when the irrd is fired DOWN. Try it and you may 
<BR>like the results.
<BR>
<BR>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
<BR>New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
<BR>will close soon.</B></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed May  2 20:03:19 2001
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From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
Content-Type:  multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_e2.141b8fa0.2822218a_boundary"
Subject: Re: Painting on glass
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 22:50:50 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
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Hi Richard,
Hang on to that Armstrong word is that they are closing their doors.
Beveler4 (Stan)

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Hi Richard,
<BR>Hang on to that Armstrong word is that they are closing their doors.
<BR>Beveler4 (Stan)</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed May  2 20:38:38 2001
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Subject: rumor?
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 23:31:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

This may be fact, or it may be rumor.  I've been told that Meredith
Glass is going out of business.  They used to be in Laurel, MD and are
now in Silver Spring MD.  I've tried several times to get their web site
with no success.

If so, I would have expected to get some kind of email notification,
since I should be on their email list. - Cec

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From owner-glass Thu May  3 05:54:01 2001
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X-Path: altavista.com!jakalb
From: Janene Kalb <jakalb@altavista.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: rumor about Meredith Glass
Date: 3 May 2001 05:36:39 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@altavista.com>
Precedence: bulk

This is not a rumor - it's true.  I received a flyer via snail-mail from them.  Their sale starts this weekend.

Janene 
On Wed, 02 May 2001, Cecily & Ralph Wood wrote:

> 
> This may be fact, or it may be rumor.  I've been told that Meredith
> Glass is going out of business.  They used to be in Laurel, MD and are
> now in Silver Spring MD.  I've tried several times to get their web site
> with no success.
> 
> If so, I would have expected to get some kind of email notification,
> since I should be on their email list. - Cec
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
http://www.shopping.altavista.com
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From owner-glass Thu May  3 06:08:33 2001
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Armstrong
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:37:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by INTERNET:Beveler4@aol.com
>Hang on to that Armstrong word is that they are closing their doors.<

!!!!!   Armstrong closing their doors!!!!!   Whaaaaaaaa!  Boo, hiss.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Thu May  3 10:33:06 2001
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X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz
From: Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Maas metal polish
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 13:32:24 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
Waaay back, someone wrote about Maas polish. Is there anyone out there who lives
near one of their distributors? Home Depot is one of them. We have one here (New
England area), but they don't stock it. All Home Depot stores don't stock the
same items unfortunately. Lowes is also a distributor, but not here. If someone
knows where it can be purchased and what the cost is, I would appreciate the
information. I'm waiting for an answer from the Maas people as to when, if ever,
they will be distributing their product in the Northeast area. Thanks, Elaine

----
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From owner-glass Thu May  3 11:32:03 2001
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X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz
From: Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: k-sodt@nwu.edu, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Maas metal polish
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 14:31:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>
References: <<3AF1586E.15291.4496E10@localhost>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Kaye,
On their web page, a 4oz tube is $12.95, a 1.5lb can is $34.95, free shipping. They
also said that they are on the shopping channels, although I've never seen the
product, but then I only see the shopping channels by mistake. Whoever it is that
wrote about it to Bungi said the stuff is fantastic, but mentioned a very low price
compared to the price on their web page. Maybe he was mistaken about the price. When
you get a chance, if you would check on the price, I would really appreciate that. I
will check the shopping channels, but there are so many of them and they seem to go
24/7 so my chances of catching it are pretty close to nil. Thank you for helping me
with this. Elaine

Kaye Sodt wrote:

> Here in the Chicago area I've seen it at Ace Hardware--in fact they
> had a lady at a table by the door one time and she cleaned my
> gold bracelet for me!  I don't recall the price, but it ain't cheap.  If
> you don't get any better information, I'd be happy to check for you
> here--and even buy and send it to you if you want....
>
> Kaye
> ------------------------
> Hi all,
> Waaay back, someone wrote about Maas polish. Is there anyone out there who lives
> near one of their distributors? Home Depot is one of them. We have one here (New
> England area), but they don't stock it. All Home Depot stores don't stock the
> same items unfortunately. Lowes is also a distributor, but not here. If someone
> knows where it can be purchased and what the cost is, I would appreciate the
> information. I'm waiting for an answer from the Maas people as to when, if ever,
> they will be distributing their product in the Northeast area. Thanks, Elaine
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Thu May  3 11:52:33 2001
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	for rglass-42; Thu, 3 May 2001 11:34:19 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #530 built 2001-Apr-11)
X-Path: mindspring.com!armstrongglass
From: "Tami Hicks" <armstrongglass@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Armstrong Glass
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:33:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0D3DD.F4D88E80
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Glass Lovers,

The rumors are flying again about Armstrong Glass.  We are NOT out of =
business.  We are in the process of outsourcing the manufacturing of our =
products under our direct supervision, using our formulations, =
technology and equipment.  We still have plenty of stock and we will =
have new products available during the latter part of the summer.

The rumor mill is a constant source of bad information.  Thank you to =
those of you that have come to the "horses mouth" for the correct =
information.

------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0D3DD.F4D88E80
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear Glass Lovers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The rumors are flying again about =
Armstrong=20
Glass.&nbsp; We are NOT out of business.&nbsp; We are in the process of=20
outsourcing the manufacturing of our products under our direct =
supervision,=20
using our formulations, technology and equipment.&nbsp; We still have =
plenty of=20
stock and we will have new products available during the latter part of =
the=20
summer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The rumor mill&nbsp;is a constant =
source of bad=20
information.&nbsp; Thank you to those of you that have come to the =
"horses=20
mouth" for the correct information.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0D3DD.F4D88E80--

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From owner-glass Thu May  3 12:32:21 2001
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #530 built 2001-Apr-11)
X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass
From: "Molly Keys" <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
To: "Elaine" <wmagdycz@massed.net>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Maas metal polish
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:08:20 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@sprintmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

Elaine,
Here in Texas we can find it in the grocery stores, Walmart, Kmart, etc. and
the price is around $3.00.    You might ask your grocery store if they can
order it for you.  It's located in the section that you find Brasso and
other silver cleaners along with dishwashing detergent.
Hope this helps,
Molly
-----Original Message-----
From: Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:28 PM
Subject: Maas metal polish


>Hi all,
>Waaay back, someone wrote about Maas polish. Is there anyone out there who
lives
>near one of their distributors? Home Depot is one of them. We have one here
(New
>England area), but they don't stock it. All Home Depot stores don't stock
the
>same items unfortunately. Lowes is also a distributor, but not here. If
someone
>knows where it can be purchased and what the cost is, I would appreciate
the
>information. I'm waiting for an answer from the Maas people as to when, if
ever,
>they will be distributing their product in the Northeast area. Thanks,
Elaine
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Thu May  3 12:46:49 2001
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X-Path: northamericanfund.com!rballard
From: "Robin Ballard" <rballard@northamericanfund.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Maas metal polish
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:26:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@northamericanfund.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>>
Precedence: bulk

I also found it on this website:
http://www.DusanPolishingProducts.com/

A little cheaper ($11.65 includeing S&H), but not much.  Hope that helps.

Robn

-----Original Message-----
From: Elaine [mailto:wmagdycz@massed.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 4:32 PM
To: k-sodt@nwu.edu; Bungi
Subject: Re: Maas metal polish


Hi Kaye,
On their web page, a 4oz tube is $12.95, a 1.5lb can is $34.95, free
shipping. They
also said that they are on the shopping channels, although I've never seen
the
product, but then I only see the shopping channels by mistake. Whoever it is
that
wrote about it to Bungi said the stuff is fantastic, but mentioned a very
low price
compared to the price on their web page. Maybe he was mistaken about the
price. When
you get a chance, if you would check on the price, I would really appreciate
that. I
will check the shopping channels, but there are so many of them and they
seem to go
24/7 so my chances of catching it are pretty close to nil. Thank you for
helping me
with this. Elaine

Kaye Sodt wrote:

> Here in the Chicago area I've seen it at Ace Hardware--in fact they
> had a lady at a table by the door one time and she cleaned my
> gold bracelet for me!  I don't recall the price, but it ain't cheap.  If
> you don't get any better information, I'd be happy to check for you
> here--and even buy and send it to you if you want....
>
> Kaye
> ------------------------
> Hi all,
> Waaay back, someone wrote about Maas polish. Is there anyone out there who
lives
> near one of their distributors? Home Depot is one of them. We have one
here (New
> England area), but they don't stock it. All Home Depot stores don't stock
the
> same items unfortunately. Lowes is also a distributor, but not here. If
someone
> knows where it can be purchased and what the cost is, I would appreciate
the
> information. I'm waiting for an answer from the Maas people as to when, if
ever,
> they will be distributing their product in the Northeast area. Thanks,
Elaine
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Thu May  3 13:32:17 2001
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X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz
From: Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Update Re: Maas metal polish
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 16:26:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Thank you to all who replied. I finally called Maas. They just started distributing it
in this area, but only at Walgreens. Walgreens has it for $4.99/2oz tube, however, it's
a buy1, get 1 free. I can handle 2 for the price of one any time. Guess this is my lucky
day. The lady at Maas said they no longer sell on the shopping channels. I checked Home
Depot online. Can you believe that I can only order if my local store is online and they
stock the product, which my local store doesn't. You can only order from the store where
you will take delivery. That's Ok, Walgreens saved me. Thank you all again for the help.
Elaine

PS: It does work. It takes away the haze that I sometimes get in (not on) the solder
after polishing, and leaves a nice shiny finish.

Elaine wrote:

> Hi Kaye,
> On their web page, a 4oz tube is $12.95, a 1.5lb can is $34.95, free shipping. They
> also said that they are on the shopping channels, although I've never seen the
> product, but then I only see the shopping channels by mistake. Whoever it is that
> wrote about it to Bungi said the stuff is fantastic, but mentioned a very low price
> compared to the price on their web page. Maybe he was mistaken about the price. When
> you get a chance, if you would check on the price, I would really appreciate that. I
> will check the shopping channels, but there are so many of them and they seem to go
> 24/7 so my chances of catching it are pretty close to nil. Thank you for helping me
> with this. Elaine
>
> Kaye Sodt wrote:
>
> > Here in the Chicago area I've seen it at Ace Hardware--in fact they
> > had a lady at a table by the door one time and she cleaned my
> > gold bracelet for me!  I don't recall the price, but it ain't cheap.  If
> > you don't get any better information, I'd be happy to check for you
> > here--and even buy and send it to you if you want....
> >
> > Kaye
> > ------------------------
> > Hi all,
> > Waaay back, someone wrote about Maas polish. Is there anyone out there who lives
> > near one of their distributors? Home Depot is one of them. We have one here (New
> > England area), but they don't stock it. All Home Depot stores don't stock the
> > same items unfortunately. Lowes is also a distributor, but not here. If someone
> > knows where it can be purchased and what the cost is, I would appreciate the
> > information. I'm waiting for an answer from the Maas people as to when, if ever,
> > they will be distributing their product in the Northeast area. Thanks, Elaine
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Thu May  3 16:31:27 2001
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #530 built 2001-Apr-11)
X-Path: aol.com!Bobfuses
From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: cecnralph@home.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_29.144bb30b.28233fdd_boundary"
Subject: Re: kiln terms
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:12:29 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk


--part1_29.144bb30b.28233fdd_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 5/2/01 8:11:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
cecnralph@home.com writes:


> So do you use the hi-fire kiln paper under it, or just regular old 
> 

I do most of my firings on old kiln wash with a heavy new kiln wash powder 
coat. Cheaper and easy to create simple textures in the powder with a comb or 
brush.

I believe the irrd on Spectrum survives when fired down because there is 
little contact with the oxygen in the air. 

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
will close soon.

--part1_29.144bb30b.28233fdd_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><B>In a message dated 5/2/01 8:11:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
<BR>cecnralph@home.com writes:
<BR>
<BR></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">So do you use the hi-fire kiln paper under it, or just regular old 
<BR>kilnwashed shelf or is this in a mold? - Cec </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR><B>
<BR>I do most of my firings on old kiln wash with a heavy new kiln wash powder 
<BR>coat. Cheaper and easy to create simple textures in the powder with a comb or 
<BR>brush.
<BR>
<BR>I believe the irrd on Spectrum survives when fired down because there is 
<BR>little contact with the oxygen in the air. 
<BR>
<BR>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
<BR>New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
<BR>will close soon.</B></FONT></HTML>

--part1_29.144bb30b.28233fdd_boundary--
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From owner-glass Thu May  3 16:39:35 2001
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #530 built 2001-Apr-11)
X-Path: aol.com!Bobfuses
From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: armstrongglass@mindspring.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_c9.fb0a790.282342fa_boundary"
Subject: Re: Armstrong Glass
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:25:46 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk


--part1_c9.fb0a790.282342fa_boundary
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In a message dated 5/3/01 11:53:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
armstrongglass@mindspring.com writes:


> The rumors are flying again about Armstrong Glass.  We are NOT out of =
> business.  We are in the process of outsourcing the manufacturing of our =
> products under our direct supervision, using our formulations, =
> technology and equipment.  

I sure hope that does not mean, "Made in China." Any product produced in 
China is off my buy list.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
will close soon.

--part1_c9.fb0a790.282342fa_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><B>In a message dated 5/3/01 11:53:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
<BR>armstrongglass@mindspring.com writes:
<BR>
<BR></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The rumors are flying again about Armstrong Glass. &nbsp;We are NOT out of =
<BR>business. &nbsp;We are in the process of outsourcing the manufacturing of our =
<BR>products under our direct supervision, using our formulations, =
<BR>technology and equipment. &nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR><B>
<BR>I sure hope that does not mean, "Made in China." Any product produced in 
<BR>China is off my buy list.
<BR>
<BR>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
<BR>New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
<BR>will close soon.</B></FONT></HTML>

--part1_c9.fb0a790.282342fa_boundary--
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From owner-glass Thu May  3 17:32:52 2001
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: Re: Armstrong Glass
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 20:05:22 -0700
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010503195943.00cfa360@pop.erols.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk


>
>
>In a message dated 5/3/01 11:53:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>armstrongglass@mindspring.com writes:
>
>
> > The rumors are flying again about Armstrong Glass.  We are NOT out of =
> > business.  We are in the process of outsourcing the manufacturing of our =
> > products under our direct supervision, using our formulations, =
> > technology and equipment.
>
>I sure hope that does not mean, "Made in China." Any product produced in
>China is off my buy list.
>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6

Absolutely right, Bob!
I won't buy glass if it's produced out of country at all!  We have 
beautiful glass produced right here in the good old USA and I add that 
proud note to the pieces I sell.
dee

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From owner-glass Thu May  3 19:31:48 2001
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X-Path: compunet.net!tekelly
From: Theresa Kelly <tekelly@compunet.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Maas polish
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 22:15:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compunet.net>
Precedence: bulk

I have been reading all these emails about where you can find Maas
polish but I must have missed the first one.  What do you do with Maas
polish????

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From owner-glass Thu May  3 20:01:30 2001
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From: "Maureen & David Humphreys" <searun@sprintmail.com>
To: "Art glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Photo request.
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:29:57 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@sprintmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,
Some folks on the list wished to see what my 22 inch 'Starry Nights'
finished project looked like. If anyone is interest let me know and I will
send a JPEG along to you.
Thanks for the help on the wooden frame!
Maureen

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From owner-glass Thu May  3 21:30:16 2001
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X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore
From: barbara elmore <barbaraelmore@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Armstrong Glass
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:25:02 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>>
Precedence: bulk

A sales representative from Ed Hoy's said that
Armstrong was "cutting back production" because of sales.

=====
Thank you,
Barbara Elmore

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
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From owner-glass Fri May  4 00:02:21 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!Bobfuses
From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: cecnralph@home.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_74.a3a8bd1.2823a701_boundary"
Subject: Re: Armstrong Glass
Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 02:32:33 EDT
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--part1_74.a3a8bd1.2823a701_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 5/3/01 8:49:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
cecnralph@home.com writes:


> Is that an anti-China reaction or a quality reaction?  Note that they 
> 

In my case it is an anti China reaction. I simply will not help to support 
people that begrudge our wounded plane a safe landing. Everyone on that 
plane, even the Senior Chief, was younger than my sons. With 26 years in and 
around the US Submarine Service you can label me an arch conservative if you 
like.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
will close soon.

--part1_74.a3a8bd1.2823a701_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><B>In a message dated 5/3/01 8:49:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
<BR>cecnralph@home.com writes:
<BR>
<BR></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Is that an anti-China reaction or a quality reaction? &nbsp;Note that they 
<BR>(whomever) will be using the Armstrong recipes. </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR><B>
<BR>In my case it is an anti China reaction. I simply will not help to support 
<BR>people that begrudge our wounded plane a safe landing. Everyone on that 
<BR>plane, even the Senior Chief, was younger than my sons. With 26 years in and 
<BR>around the US Submarine Service you can label me an arch conservative if you 
<BR>like.
<BR>
<BR>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
<BR>New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account 
<BR>will close soon.</B></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri May  4 04:26:07 2001
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X-Path: ns.sympatico.ca!irwin.judson
From: irwin.judson@ns.sympatico.ca (Irwin Judson)
To: <Bobfuses@aol.com>,
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Re: Armstrong Glass
Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:12:07 -0300
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@ns.sympatico.ca>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0D471.E9518280
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

These jingoistic attitudes offend me.  I subscribed to be among my =
colleagues with stained glass interests, not to have to put up with rude =
uninformed political diatribes.
As soon as I can figure out how to unsubscribe I will.
I. Judson
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Bobfuses@aol.com=20
  To: cecnralph@home.com ; glass@bungi.com=20
  Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 3:32 AM
  Subject: Re: Armstrong Glass


  In a message dated 5/3/01 8:49:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,=20
  cecnralph@home.com writes:=20



    Is that an anti-China reaction or a quality reaction?  Note that =
they=20
    (whomever) will be using the Armstrong recipes.=20


  In my case it is an anti China reaction. I simply will not help to =
support=20
  people that begrudge our wounded plane a safe landing. Everyone on =
that=20
  plane, even the Senior Chief, was younger than my sons. With 26 years =
in and=20
  around the US Submarine Service you can label me an arch conservative =
if you=20
  like.=20

  Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6=20
  New E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This =
account=20
  will close soon.=20

------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0D471.E9518280
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>These jingoistic attitudes offend =
me.&nbsp; I=20
subscribed to be among my colleagues with stained glass interests, not =
to have=20
to put up with rude uninformed political diatribes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As soon as I can figure out how to =
unsubscribe I=20
will.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I. Judson</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:Bobfuses@aol.com" =
title=3DBobfuses@aol.com>Bobfuses@aol.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:cecnralph@home.com"=20
  title=3Dcecnralph@home.com>cecnralph@home.com</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com" =
title=3Dglass@bungi.com>glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 04, 2001 3:32 =
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Armstrong =
Glass</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2><B>In a =
message dated=20
  5/3/01 8:49:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:cecnralph@home.com">cecnralph@home.com</A> writes:=20
  <BR><BR></B><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20
  TYPE=3D"CITE">Is that an anti-China reaction or a quality reaction? =
&nbsp;Note=20
    that they <BR>(whomever) will be using the Armstrong recipes.=20
  </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><B><BR>In my case it is an anti China reaction. I =
simply will=20
  not help to support <BR>people that begrudge our wounded plane a safe =
landing.=20
  Everyone on that <BR>plane, even the Senior Chief, was younger than my =
sons.=20
  With 26 years in and <BR>around the US Submarine Service you can label =
me an=20
  arch conservative if you <BR>like. <BR><BR>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6 =
<BR>New=20
  E-mail address: bobfuses@home.com , please enter and use. This account =

  <BR>will close soon.</B></FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0D471.E9518280--

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From owner-glass Fri May  4 04:31:06 2001
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X-Path: hotmail.com!jasonq23
From: jasonq23@hotmail.com
To: <iacidvus@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/html;
Subject: Stop Creditors from Harassing You Now .			......                         21143
Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 20:02:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@hotmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

<html>

<head>
<title>BE DEBT FREE TODAY!</title>
</head>

<body>

<table border=3D"1" width=3D"56%">
  <tr>
    <td width=3D"32%" bgcolor=3D"#5A38B4">
      <p align=3D"center"><br>
      <font face=3D"Copperplate Gothic Bold"><b><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" si=
ze=3D"2">Be</font><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" size=3D"4">&nbsp;</font></b><fon=
t size=3D"4"><br>
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ont><font size=3D"4"><br>
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olor=3D"#FF6600" face=3D"Copperplate Gothic Bold" size=3D"5">Consolidate
      your bills regardless of credit!</font></b></center></td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td width=3D"32%" bgcolor=3D"#FF0000">
      <p align=3D"center"><font color=3D"#FFFFFF" size=3D"2" face=3D"Lucid=
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t size=3D"-1" face=3D"Verdana"><b><font size=3D"-1" color=3D"#5A38B4"><br>
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      </font><font color=3D"#FF0000"><u>Drastically</u></font></b> <font c=
olor=3D"#5A38B4"><b>lower
      or even</b></font> <b><font size=3D"-1" color=3D"#FF0000"><u>elimina=
te</u></font></b>
      <font color=3D"#5A38B4"><b>your interest rates.</b></font><br>
      <br>
      <b><font color=3D"#FF0000"><u>Reduce</u></font></b> <font color=3D"#=
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      monthly payments as much as</b></font> <b><font size=3D"-1" color=3D=
"#FF0000"><u>75%</u></font></b>.<br>
      <br>
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=3D"#5A38B4"><b>your
      debts into</b></font> <b><font size=3D"-1" color=3D"#FF0000"><u>one<=
/u></font></b>
      <b><font color=3D"#5A38B4">simple payment.</font></b><br>
      <br>
      <b><font color=3D"#FF0000"><u>Significantly</u></font></b> <b><font =
color=3D"#5A38B4">cut
      down the years to pay off your debt.<br>
      <br>
      </font></b></font><font size=3D"-1" face=3D"Verdana"><b><font color=3D=
"#5A38B4">Apply
      now for a</font></b> <b><font size=3D"-1" color=3D"#FF0000"><u>FREE<=
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      <b><font size=3D"-1" color=3D"#5A38B4">No Obligation Debt Consolidat=
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      </font></a></font></b></p>
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</table>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<font =
size=3D"1">Click <a href=3D"mailto:wca917@yahoo.com">Here</a> to be taken =
off list
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From owner-glass Fri May  4 04:54:58 2001
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 4 May 2001 04:45:30 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #530 built 2001-Apr-11)
X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz
From: Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Maas polish
Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 07:45:57 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@compunet.net>>
Precedence: bulk

It's to polish metal although it will clean lots of other stuff too, according
to the Maas people. Whoever mentioned it waaaay back said it polishes to a
really nice shine. I tried it and it does leave a nice shine, but what I like is
that I don't have that hazy look that other polishes leave. Granted, I have to
turn the piece just the right way to see the haze, but it's usually there. If I
rub 'n scrub 'n scrub 'n rub hard with a cloth using other polishes I can get
rid of it, but with the Maas polish, I don't see that at all.

Does anybody know what causes that hazy look after polishing my solder lines?
I've tried all kinds of flux and several kinds of solder. I have to really scrub
hard with a cloth to get it off. Thanks. Elaine

Theresa Kelly wrote:

> I have been reading all these emails about where you can find Maas
> polish but I must have missed the first one.  What do you do with Maas
> polish????
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri May  4 05:25:05 2001
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X-Path: vcn.com!birkie
From: "Birkie" <birkie@vcn.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Photo request.
Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 06:17:28 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@vcn.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@sprintmail.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Maureen,

I would love to see a photo of your completed project!  And should you be
interested, I have some photo's posted with Yahoo
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/meredithstainedglasschat go to Photos, Birkies
work.

I look forward to seeing the photo.

Vicki

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From owner-glass Fri May  4 08:01:54 2001
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: Re: Armstrong Glass
Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 09:16:08 -0700
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010504091549.00cde670@pop.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk

In my case, it is an avid support of our own American manufacturers.  Our 
wonderful heritage of glass is dropping off as we slowly loose our 
manufacturers.  I am proud of our glass heritage and want to keep it.
I  buy a homemade product over any produced anywhere else to support that 
heritage.  That is economics, not politics.
Dee 

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From owner-glass Fri May  4 10:53:08 2001
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X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj
From: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Armstrong Glass
Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 13:59:32 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>>
Precedence: bulk

On Thu, 3 May 2001, Tami Hicks wrote:
> Dear Glass Lovers,
>
> The rumors are flying again about Armstrong Glass.  We are NOT out of
> business.  We are in the process of outsourcing the manufacturing of our
> products under our direct supervision, using our formulations,
> technology and equipment.  We still have plenty of stock and we will
> have new products available during the latter part of the summer.
>
> The rumor mill is a constant source of bad information.  Thank you to
> those of you that have come to the "horses mouth" for the correct
> information.

I was at the Armstrong plant in beautiful Jasper GA 2 weeks ago and they
are no longer producing glass there.  The warehouse is full of glass to be
sold.  It is all being sold by the pound with small hobby sized pieces
going for $0.85 a pound with half and full sized sheets priced higher.  If
you need glass and can get to northwest GA it would be worth the trip.
Check their web page for phone numbers and call ahead to be sure they are
open.

The talk (rumor) was that the new "buyer" was just interested in getting
the glass formulas.

Jim

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From owner-glass Sat May  5 04:45:07 2001
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X-Path: poczta.onet.pl!krzychkam
From: poczta.onet.pl!krzychkam
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Prairie Lamp
Date: Sat May  5 04:28:54 2001
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@poczta.onet.pl>
Precedence: bulk

Regards from Poland for all
I am Polish Border Guard officer and Stained Glass then my splendid chobby.
I turn with request to all for help!
I seek of examples of lamp-shades and bases to Prairie Lamps.
Somebody can help me ? Somebody knows some web side address ?
I wait impatiently - Cris
My e-mail: krzychkam@vaos.com.pl
Thanks







-- 
 
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From owner-glass Sat May  5 09:08:07 2001
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X-Path: earthlink.net!kremmert
From: "Kurt Remmert" <kremmert@earthlink.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>, <krzychkam@vaos.com.pl>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Prairie Lamp
Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 10:37:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@earthlink.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@poczta.onet.pl>>
Precedence: bulk

Greetings,

Here is a site that I always find nice pictures and ideas.
It is for Delphi Stained Glass

https://www52.rapidsite.net/delph7/welcome.html

Click on Search and enter prairie and there are a number
of pictures, patters, and parts.

Kurt
Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: daver!poczta.onet.pl!krzychkam
[mailto:daver!poczta.onet.pl!krzychkam]
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 4:29 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Prairie Lamp


Regards from Poland for all
I am Polish Border Guard officer and Stained Glass then my splendid chobby.
I turn with request to all for help!
I seek of examples of lamp-shades and bases to Prairie Lamps.
Somebody can help me ? Somebody knows some web side address ?
I wait impatiently - Cris
My e-mail: krzychkam@vaos.com.pl
Thanks







-- 
 
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From owner-glass Mon May  7 00:00:23 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Sarah <arasai@bright.net>
Subject: Re: Door Insert
Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 22:00:24 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@bright.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Sarah,
        I haven't seen any replies to this query yet, so I will put my
opinion in.
        Sure, you can glaze the s.g. panel on the interior side of the
existing glass.  I would use something stronger than "panel clips" as
the panel in a door will take quite a bit of a beating over time.  It
needs to be secured into the door by using beading, just as the existing
glass has.  It can be the same beading, just with tiny spacers between
the two planes of glass.  Some small ventilation holes should be left so
some air can circulate between the two pieces of glass. This will deal
with any condensation that might develop.
        You might also want to think of glazing bars on the decorative
glass panel too.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@bright.net>, Sarah <arasai@bright.net> writes
>Hi to All!! I have a front door that I would like to make a panel for. the
>door is 122 years old. My question is, can I put the S.G. panel on the
>interior side of the original glass? The window is 21" wide and 29" long. I
>have a space on the inside of the window frame 1/2" deep, so the panel
>wouldn't be against the original glass. If I use panel clips, would this
>work? This door faces west, and in the winter that's where most of our wind
>comes from.
>Thanks in advance!
>Sarah
>May your day be as beautiful as you are...!
>
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue May  8 12:02:40 2001
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From: "Dee Quaranto" <wvgrrrrl@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Re: Armstrong Glass, Chinese Glass
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 14:53:58 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@hotmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi there,

This is my first posting to the list. I've been "lurking" for a while, but 
this is one subject I felt I had to address. Before doing so, I'd just like 
to thank everyone for all their information and opinions--I'm learning a lot 
from this list.

I live in West Virginia, where the heritage of glass making is still alive, 
if not completely well. I am in the process of getting an internet-based 
business established--I plan to sell primarily Wissmach Glass (eat yer heart 
out y'all--the factory is 42 miles from my home ;)and Youghiogheny Glass 
(from neighboring Pennsylvania).

In recent years, I have seen the market flooded with stained glass products 
from China. These mass-produced items (lamps and lighting fixtures for the 
most part)are most often made with inferior glass and feature amateurish 
leading and joining, IMHO. What has truly amazed me is the fact that these 
items can be sold so inexpensively--although they may not be able to hold a 
candle to the work of a genuine craftsperson/artist, many still involve a 
great deal of work. How can the Chinese do that?

Well, aside from the fact that the average Chinese worker probably makes a 
fraction of what the average American worker does, I found out that the 
Chinese make extensive use of the labor of prisoners. For that reason alone, 
I would not buy glass or finished glass products produced in that country.

There are many very important reasons to boycott Chinese glass, not the 
least of which is that country's abyssmal human rights record. (What is the 
US doing trading with this country in the first place?) Add to that the 
difference in quality between American and Chinese glass, and the economic 
impact upon American glass producers and glass craftspeople, and I believe 
it is hard to justify purchase of Chinese items.

Ever looked through a piece of Yough, or Uroboros? Ever watched hot glass 
come out of the furnace? If we don't stop aiding and abetting the Chinese in 
their appropriation of the American glass industry, you may never get the 
chance. And that would be a crying shame.

Just my $.02,

Dee

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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From owner-glass Wed May  9 06:23:43 2001
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X-Path: altavista.com!jakalb
From: Janene Kalb <jakalb@altavista.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Meredith Glass Flyer
Date: 9 May 2001 06:03:43 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@altavista.com>
Precedence: bulk

I've been without e-mail for a couple of days - Sorry for the delay in responding.

Here's what the flyer from Meredith Glass says:

"After 23 years serving the stained glass supply needs of the Washington, DC area market, the gallery and stained glass supply/class divisions of Meredith Stained Glass Center, Inc. are closing the end of May.  (The Custom Studio Division remains open).  After much serious consideration and discussion, including a hard look at the current industry status, we have come to the determination that this is the time for us to take this step.  We want to express our deep gratitude to all of the loyal customers we've had over the years, and reassure everyone that we will do everything in our power to direct you to another supply/teaching facility that will be able to fulfill your needs as we have had the privilege of doing for so many years.

ON A POSITIVE NOTE! This will be the first and last chance to get the best pricing you have ever seen or will ever see on remaining gallery items as well as our ENTIRE supply inventory, fixtures, samples and misc. items.

Beginning May 1, we will only be open Friday through Sunday for inventory clearance, with the exception of our FINAL WEEKEND, Memorial Day Weekend, May 25th-28th, when we will be open Thursday through Monday.

We will not be replenishing our stock, so shop early and often for the best selection.  Following is the discount schedule -- VERY few exceptions apply:

May  4th -  6th get 15% off everything
May 11th - 13th get 20% off everything
May 18th - 20th get 30% off everything
May 24th - 28th get 40% off everything

All sales final, no holds or special orders.  Credit card and cash only! Sorry no checks!

Meredith Stained Glass Center
1115 East-West Highway
Silver Spring, MD 20910
(301) 650-8572 * (800) 966-6667
E-mail: meredithglass@aol.com"


Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
http://www.shopping.altavista.com
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From owner-glass Thu May 10 07:04:44 2001
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From: "Stained Glass Lamps" <stainedglasslamps@csinet.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 07:51:43 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0D926.0E195620
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,
I have not seen any mail on bungi.  What is new?  Whats up?  Ha- Ha.  =
Hope you all have a good day.
Mary

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0D926.0E195620
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>I have not seen any mail on=20
bungi.&nbsp;</FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4> What is new?&nbsp; =
Whats=20
up?&nbsp; Ha- Ha.&nbsp; Hope you all have a good day.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>Mary</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0D926.0E195620--

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From owner-glass Thu May 10 09:12:29 2001
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From: eric983@myflat.com
To: trips@aspirine.u-strasbg.fr
Subject: Its Possible to Earn Round trips to Anywhere in the World!
Date: Thu, 10 May 01 04:21:50 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@myflat.com>
Precedence: bulk

Live the lifestyle you've always dreamed about!
Free Round trips to anywhere in the world!
Convert airmiles you can't use into cash.  Recieve a check daily.
Residual income unlimited.  Simply call 1-661-752-8148
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From owner-glass Fri May 11 08:27:56 2001
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X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz
From: Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: large panel reinforcement
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:03:48 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
I have seen the reinforcement subject come up more than once with rebar,
however, rebar is not an option. The panels are 43"h x 13"w, 16"w, and 19"w. The

design has 14 pieces - including a large square diamond near the top third of
the piece, and a narrow, 11" dbl house shaped piece of glass in the bottom half.

It is possible that the dbl house will be replaced by a 2" or 3" wide bevel,
depending on the door width. There are 2 horizontal lines broken by the diamond
and dbl house. There are several vertical lines, but only one straight top to
bottom line, again broken by the diamond and dbl house. One panel will be in an
entry door. I won't be doing the installation. I'm considering using 5/16 HF
lead with a 1/8" steel reinforcement bar running through the heart, or 4.6 x 1mm

zinc-coated steel reinforcing strips along the 2 sides of the heart of 1/4" (or
maybe 3/8") lead, and 3/8" zinc around the edge of the panels. Am I
overcompensating with the 1/8" steel reinforced lead? It seems like possible
overkill. I was also told that they want to duplicate the F. L. Wright design.
I'm not sure what they mean by that. Any and all help will be appreciated. I
have a design that I can email to anyone if it would help. Thank you to all for
any advice. Elaine

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From owner-glass Fri May 11 09:29:49 2001
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X-Path: sprintmail.com!searun
From: "Maureen & David Humphreys" <searun@sprintmail.com>
To: "Art glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: How strong must it be.
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:00:12 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@sprintmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Elaine,
The subject you bring (reinforcement) is one that I will enjoy hearing from
the 'Pro' on also.
I finished a 28X18 beveled window last night. I used zinc from the frame but
after turning it over for soilding the back, I was shocked to see how heavy
it is. My husband is making a wood frame for it this weekend! I just do not
feel comfortable with the project in only a zinc frame.
I wish there were better guild line (maybe by weight of project) to help us
out! For example, I called 2 glass shops and got two different answers to my
question this am regarding 'will zinc hold this puppy?'
I hope someone can provide a better method to determine when and if to use
more 'serious' methods also.
Maureen

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From owner-glass Fri May 11 10:20:29 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4
From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: <wmagdycz@massed.net>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: large panel reinforcement
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 13:04:18 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Re-enforcement of a large beveled panel going into a door should have been considered long before the design was drawn unfortunately and being that it is going into a door rebar is in my opinion the only way to make it secure enough to keep the panel from self destructing from the constant stress that it will recieve from just everyday use.I usually deign the panel with lines that will hide the bars. You can try using zinc rebar it bends much easier than steel and can be worked into a design with some bending.I however always use steel rebar on beveled doors and run it into the actuall door and then solder it to the window.thereby giving you some stabilizing from the door itself. You must remember bevels are not only heavier than stained glass they also have forward weight which is an extra stress that you don't have in ordinary SG windows.
Beveler4 (Stan)
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From owner-glass Fri May 11 10:51:07 2001
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "bungi (E-mail)" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: large panel reinforcement
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:25:43 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

not to mention that with the weight comes inertia (the old F=Ma comes into
play here). in a swinging door with large bevels, the bevels will tend to
want to keep moving when the door stops. this causes a LOT of flex every
time the door swings.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beveler4@aol.com [mailto:Beveler4@aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 10:04 AM
> To: wmagdycz@massed.net
> Subject: Re: large panel reinforcement
> 
> 
> Re-enforcement of a large beveled panel going into a door 
> should have been considered long before the design was drawn 
> unfortunately and being that it is going into a door rebar is 
> in my opinion the only way to make it secure enough to keep 
> the panel from self destructing from the constant stress that 
> it will recieve from just everyday use.I usually deign the 
> panel with lines that will hide the bars. You can try using 
> zinc rebar it bends much easier than steel and can be worked 
> into a design with some bending.I however always use steel 
> rebar on beveled doors and run it into the actuall door and 
> then solder it to the window.thereby giving you some 
> stabilizing from the door itself. You must remember bevels 
> are not only heavier than stained glass they also have 
> forward weight which is an extra stress that you don't have 
> in ordinary SG windows.
> Beveler4 (Stan)
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From owner-glass Fri May 11 11:32:05 2001
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: How strong must it be.
Date: Fri May 11 11:25:12 2001
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@one.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@sprintmail.com>>
Precedence: bulk

I'm not Elaine, but I'll throw my thoughts out...

There are a number of factors involving reinforcement.
Size and weight are just two of them.

Assuming a panel that will 'hang' vertically, the configuration of the
pieces in the panel are probably the most important.  Then size & weight
in that order.

By configuration I mean is there a number of straight lines from one edge
to the other which are not broken or only broken by a single element?
(i.e. frames of stock straight bevels?)
How many 'lead lines' are going from the panel to the zinc frame?
(i.e. many short bevels or a couple of long ones?)
Configuration is the MOST important thing.  A nice bevel cluster
surrounded by some glue chip and a bevel border is very strong
on its own usually.

There is quite a bit of difference in a panel hanging and one 'installed'
(i.e. sitting) in an opening.  This applies even if there is a wooden frame
around it (depending, of course, on the configuration of the frame).
I did a panel that was 9 panels in a wooden frame with an over all size
of 53" by 44" that was designed to be hung from two points.  Good sized,
but not huge.  1 large center panel and 8 smaller surrounding panels.
Still the wooden frame had two steel rods from the top to the bottom.
This allowed the panels to 'sit' in the frame and the frame was supported
from the bottom.  The panels were not actually hanging.

If a panel is not going to be vertical then the whole ball game changes.
I had a beginners class where a student was doing a nice Frank Lloyd Wright.
When it was almost complete, she asked about reinforcement and I asked how
it was installed, she said 'sky light'.  I totally jaw dropped.  Now I make
it a point
of mentioning non-vertical panels to the students in the first class.

To answer your question directly, is the wooden frame substantial enough to
hang
and hold the panel on its own or is the panel holding the frame?  A 28 x 18
simple
foiled panel I would say nothing more than 1/4" zinc frame would be fine.
If the
whole thing is beveled, 3/8" is just fine.  This assumes the panel is in a
supporting
structure like a window or the aforementioned wooden frame.  If it is
hanging on its
own, something else may be needed but probably not.  This depends on
configuration
(whether there are enough attachment points from the lead lines to the zinc
and if there
are any inherent week points in the panel) and the weight.  A heavy panel
hanging from
just a couple of points at the top will want to fold depending on where the
hangers are
located.

Unfortunately, after doing this for awhile you get to the point of looking
at a panel & going, '1/4" zinc around the outside will be fine' or 'this
should
have some reinforcement on the back' or 'some zinc channel is needed here,
here and here' with out really thinking too much about it.

I wish there were some cut and dried answers here but there is too much 'it
depends'.
I could probably come up with some hard engineering numbers, but most people
(my self included) just don't want have to deal with that sort of thing.

Bottom line, if you can get me a picture, I can tell you what you need and
describe
the thought process that got me there.  Perhaps that may help you in the
future.

-G


> Dear Elaine,
> The subject you bring (reinforcement) is one that I will enjoy hearing
from
> the 'Pro' on also.
> I finished a 28X18 beveled window last night. I used zinc from the frame
but
> after turning it over for soilding the back, I was shocked to see how
heavy
> it is. My husband is making a wood frame for it this weekend! I just do
not
> feel comfortable with the project in only a zinc frame.
> I wish there were better guild line (maybe by weight of project) to help
us
> out! For example, I called 2 glass shops and got two different answers to
my
> question this am regarding 'will zinc hold this puppy?'
> I hope someone can provide a better method to determine when and if to use
> more 'serious' methods also.
> Maureen
>


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From owner-glass Fri May 11 13:32:06 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>
Subject: Re: large panel reinforcement
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 21:05:20 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Elaine,
        I agree with others that reinforcement is essential.  In this
case, as Charlie mentioned, you need steel bars to which the panel is
tied. (unless the steel is zinc coated, I don't see how you can solder
to steel bar).  You can get mild steel strap that is zinc coated.  Place
the narrow edge of the strap against the lead and solder or tie it to
the panel.  You can bend the strap to go around the shapes of the
bevels, or have the shapes welded.  The bars should be horizontal, if I
understand your dimensions correctly.

Steve 
In message <1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>, Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>
writes
>Hi all,
>I have seen the reinforcement subject come up more than once with rebar,
>however, rebar is not an option. The panels are 43"h x 13"w, 16"w, and 19"w. The
>
>design has 14 pieces - including a large square diamond near the top third of
>the piece, and a narrow, 11" dbl house shaped piece of glass in the bottom half.
>
>It is possible that the dbl house will be replaced by a 2" or 3" wide bevel,
>depending on the door width. There are 2 horizontal lines broken by the diamond
>and dbl house. There are several vertical lines, but only one straight top to
>bottom line, again broken by the diamond and dbl house. One panel will be in an
>entry door. I won't be doing the installation. I'm considering using 5/16 HF
>lead with a 1/8" steel reinforcement bar running through the heart, or 4.6 x 1mm
>
>zinc-coated steel reinforcing strips along the 2 sides of the heart of 1/4" (or
>maybe 3/8") lead, and 3/8" zinc around the edge of the panels. Am I
>overcompensating with the 1/8" steel reinforced lead? It seems like possible
>overkill. I was also told that they want to duplicate the F. L. Wright design.
>I'm not sure what they mean by that. Any and all help will be appreciated. I
>have a design that I can email to anyone if it would help. Thank you to all for
>any advice. Elaine
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri May 11 13:54:08 2001
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X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz
From: Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: How strong must it be.
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 16:53:28 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@one.net>>
Precedence: bulk

I tried to send a reply to you, but your email address
(one.net!gwood@daver.bungi.com)  was rejected. Can you please email me with the
address you want me to email to? I would really like to contact you. Thanks.
Elaine

one.net!gwood@daver.bungi.com wrote:

> I'm not Elaine, but I'll throw my thoughts out...
>
> There are a number of factors involving reinforcement.
>
> Bottom line, if you can get me a picture, I can tell you what you need and
> describe
> the thought process that got me there.  Perhaps that may help you in the
> future.
>
> -G

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From owner-glass Fri May 11 17:00:33 2001
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X-Path: sprintmail.com!searun
From: "Maureen & David Humphreys" <searun@sprintmail.com>
To: "Art glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: 3 cheers for this list.
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 15:35:10 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@sprintmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,
I just wanted to say thanks for all of you who are so willing to help with
the question of when to take care due to the weight of a project! The 14
inch rule sure helps as a guide line!
And the 'forward' movement regarding an in-set door panel is one I am
filling away when we are in our 'last house'.
I am planing to start a monthly evening Art Glass Guild for folks to come
and show off any portable glass project this  fall. Also pass tips around
and such; no selling or classes. Is there anyone on the list who has one
going now and can offer any ideas?
Maureen
>From Poulsbo, WA


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From owner-glass Sat May 12 04:29:06 2001
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X-Path: amexol.net!beadbimbo
From: "Jerri Roey" <beadbimbo@amexol.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Atlanta Glass Art Guild meeting.
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 07:11:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@amexol.net>
Precedence: bulk

If anyone in the Atlanta area is interested, or anyone who might be passing
through and just wants to stop and visit with some glass folks, here's some
information on the next guild meeting:

The next meeting will be May 20th at 2:00 at the Georgia Piedmont Arts
Center, in Winder.  The address is:

236 E. Athens St.
Suite 2
Winder, Ga.

If you need further directions, feel free to e-mail me.

Jerri


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From owner-glass Sat May 12 07:37:35 2001
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: How strong must it be.
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 09:44:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Maureen & David Humphreys"
>I finished a 28X18 beveled window last night. I used zinc from the frame=

but
after turning it over for soilding the back, I was shocked to see how hea=
vy
it is.<

Remember that bevels are made from 1/4" thick glass, not the 1/8" thick
stained glass which we are more used to using.
That's why it's so heavy compared to a stained glass panel of the same
size.  I like to frame in wood, if at all possible, on anything.
Not only does it do a better job supporting the glass, but you have more
hanging options (i.e. eye hooks into the wood located just about anywhere=

you want), you have more framing-in options (i.e. if the panel is made to=

be a snug fit inside a specific-sized opening, you can use quarter-round
wood molding up against the wooden frame to hold it in place very
securely), you have more finish options (i.e. stain to match decore, pain=
t,
unfinished, etc), and no worries about the joints unsoldering.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Mon May 14 03:05:48 2001
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Subject: Drive Your Web Counter Ballistic!!!                         13211
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 05:45:38 -0400
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From owner-glass Mon May 14 22:41:33 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!CWicks6159
From: CWicks6159@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Eliptical Circles
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 01:17:41 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk


Hi Everyone,

I guess a lot of you have been busy because I've noticed the mail has slowed 
down.  I've learned a lot as a beginner from all of you with experience under 
your belt.

My question to the group is how do you draw elliptical circles (egg shape) if 
you can't find an object that suits your needs for tracing.  I heard there is 
a way to draw them using string like you would do for a normal circle.  My 
project is for a long but narrow pane that will hold a business numeric only 
address.  I've tried numerous things and am not getting the size or shape 
needed.  The panel will be 10"x72".

HELP!

  Cyndie



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From owner-glass Mon May 14 23:32:51 2001
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X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve
From: Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>
To: CWicks6159@aol.com,glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: Re: Eliptical Circles
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 23:11:06 -0700
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010514230017.00bdbd70@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Push two pins (or hammer two nails) through your pattern into a board.  Tie 
each end of a string to a pin.  If you pull the string taut, you'll have an 
arrangement that looks like a slingshot.  Put the tip of a pencil into the 
slingshot pocket, and then start to draw around the pins, keeping each side 
of the string taut.  The pencil will slide against the string as you 
draw...getting closer to one pin and then the other.   Draw one side at a 
time or you'll get twisted up when the pencil crosses the line defined by 
the two pins.

You'll need to experiment to get an ellipse with the size and direction you 
want.  There are formulas to determine this but you probably don't need 
them.  Qualitatively, here's what affects what:

The long axis of the ellipse will be along the line of the pins.  By 
changing the pin orientation, you change the orientation of the ellipse.

The "squishiness" (AKA eccentricity) of the ellipse is controlled by the 
distance between pins.  The closer together the pins, the closer the 
ellipse to a circle.

The overall size of the ellipse is determined by the length of string.

Hope this helps!

At 10:17 PM 5/14/01, CWicks6159@aol.com wrote:

>Hi Everyone,
>
>I guess a lot of you have been busy because I've noticed the mail has slowed
>down.  I've learned a lot as a beginner from all of you with experience under
>your belt.
>
>My question to the group is how do you draw elliptical circles (egg shape) if
>you can't find an object that suits your needs for tracing.  I heard there is
>a way to draw them using string like you would do for a normal circle.  My
>project is for a long but narrow pane that will hold a business numeric only
>address.  I've tried numerous things and am not getting the size or shape
>needed.  The panel will be 10"x72".
>
>HELP!
>
>   Cyndie
>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


Steve

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From owner-glass Tue May 15 06:43:57 2001
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X-Path: one.net!gwood
From: "Gregg Wood" <gwood@one.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Eliptical Circles
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:15:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@one.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Did you say 10" x 72"?
6 feet by less than a foot?
That's quit the ellipse.

Any how, take your pattern paper and draw a straight line down the middle
72" long and mark the center of it at 36".  Now measure from that center
point
toward one end of the line 35 5/8" and make a mark.  Do this the other way.
You should have 2 marks 71 1/4" apart.  Put your nails, push pins, etc
through
these marks.  Put a pin through one of the end points of the line.  Take a
string
and make a loop around all three pins (loosely).  This should take about 12
feet
of string.  Remove the pin from the end point and place you pencil inside
the
loop of string and keeping the pencil held snug against the string draw a
big
flat circle.  This will be close to 10" by 72".

If anyone cares, the math behind this is pretty simple and I will gladly
show how to
make any ellipse.

-G


----- Original Message -----
From: <CWicks6159@aol.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 1:17 AM
Subject: Eliptical Circles


>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I guess a lot of you have been busy because I've noticed the mail has
slowed
> down.  I've learned a lot as a beginner from all of you with experience
under
> your belt.
>
> My question to the group is how do you draw elliptical circles (egg shape)
if
> you can't find an object that suits your needs for tracing.  I heard there
is
> a way to draw them using string like you would do for a normal circle.  My
> project is for a long but narrow pane that will hold a business numeric
only
> address.  I've tried numerous things and am not getting the size or shape
> needed.  The panel will be 10"x72".
>
> HELP!
>
>   Cyndie
>
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Tue May 15 12:01:08 2001
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X-Path: socal.rr.com!myates
From: "Mary Yates" <myates@socal.rr.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Dragon Fly Pattern
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:51:51 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@socal.rr.com>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0DD35.6E5BF7A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello everyone,

I'm pretty new to the list, but I was wondering if any of you out there =
would happen to have a nice pattern for a dragon fly that you would like =
to share with me.  I plan to use it to make a garden stake, using copper =
foil.  The bigger the better.

Thank You
Mary

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0DD35.6E5BF7A0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello everyone,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm pretty new to the list, but I was =
wondering if=20
any of you out there would happen to have a nice pattern for a dragon =
fly that=20
you would like to share with me.&nbsp; I plan to use it to make a garden =
stake,=20
using copper foil.&nbsp; The bigger the better.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank You</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mary</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0DD35.6E5BF7A0--

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From owner-glass Tue May 15 13:33:22 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: CWicks6159@aol.com
Subject: Re: Eliptical Circles
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 21:08:38 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Cyndie,

If you are trying to draw an oval (both ends the same shape, unlike an
egg) I think I can help.  But my explanation may not be clear, so let me
know if this makes sense.

        Determine the where the middle of the major axis (the long way)
and the middle of the minor axis (the short dimension) intersect.  Take
half the major axis and mark it from the end of the minor axis onto the
major axis at each side.  Put pins into these two points. get a length
of string that will go from one pin to the far end of the major axis.
Place a pencil in and move it around to give an oval.  Make sure your
pressure on the string is even throughout the 360 degree swing.

Best wishes,
Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>, CWicks6159@aol.com writes
>
>Hi Everyone,
>
>I guess a lot of you have been busy because I've noticed the mail has slowed 
>down.  I've learned a lot as a beginner from all of you with experience under 
>your belt.
>
>My question to the group is how do you draw elliptical circles (egg shape) if 
>you can't find an object that suits your needs for tracing.  I heard there is 
>a way to draw them using string like you would do for a normal circle.  My 
>project is for a long but narrow pane that will hold a business numeric only 
>address.  I've tried numerous things and am not getting the size or shape 
>needed.  The panel will be 10"x72".
>
>HELP!
>
>  Cyndie
>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Tue May 15 13:47:44 2001
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	via smail with stdio
	id <m14zlMK-0000AIa@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Tue, 15 May 2001 13:23:56 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #530 built 2001-Apr-11)
X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>
Subject: Re: Eliptical Circles
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 21:11:15 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<4.3.2.7.2.20010514230017.00bdbd70@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Also see my note on how to get an oval to predetermined dimensions,
first time.

Steve
In message <4.3.2.7.2.20010514230017.00bdbd70@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>
, Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com> writes
>Push two pins (or hammer two nails) through your pattern into a board.  Tie 
>each end of a string to a pin.  If you pull the string taut, you'll have an 
>arrangement that looks like a slingshot.  Put the tip of a pencil into the 
>slingshot pocket, and then start to draw around the pins, keeping each side 
>of the string taut.  The pencil will slide against the string as you 
>draw...getting closer to one pin and then the other.   Draw one side at a 
>time or you'll get twisted up when the pencil crosses the line defined by 
>the two pins.
>
>You'll need to experiment to get an ellipse with the size and direction you 
>want.  There are formulas to determine this but you probably don't need 
>them.  Qualitatively, here's what affects what:
>
>The long axis of the ellipse will be along the line of the pins.  By 
>changing the pin orientation, you change the orientation of the ellipse.
>
>The "squishiness" (AKA eccentricity) of the ellipse is controlled by the 
>distance between pins.  The closer together the pins, the closer the 
>ellipse to a circle.
>
>The overall size of the ellipse is determined by the length of string.
>
>Hope this helps!
>
>At 10:17 PM 5/14/01, CWicks6159@aol.com wrote:
>
>>Hi Everyone,
>>
>>I guess a lot of you have been busy because I've noticed the mail has slowed
>>down.  I've learned a lot as a beginner from all of you with experience under
>>your belt.
>>
>>My question to the group is how do you draw elliptical circles (egg shape) if
>>you can't find an object that suits your needs for tracing.  I heard there is
>>a way to draw them using string like you would do for a normal circle.  My
>>project is for a long but narrow pane that will hold a business numeric only
>>address.  I've tried numerous things and am not getting the size or shape
>>needed.  The panel will be 10"x72".
>>
>>HELP!
>>
>>   Cyndie
>>
>>
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>Steve
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Tue May 15 13:50:17 2001
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 15 May 2001 13:25:58 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: one.net!gwood
From: one.net!gwood
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Re: Eliptical Circles
Date: Tue May 15 13:23:51 2001
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@one.net>
References: <<000701c0dd54$41667940$c30b250a@wolf>>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01F6_01C0DD5B.586EE940
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

OK, I got requests so here goes.
Pretty simple (unless you want to know 'why').
There is a .JPG file attached with a pretty picture explanation.

An ellipse has 2 axis.  The longer is called the major axis, the shorter
is called the minor axis.  HALF the distance on the long axis is called
the semi-major axis and HALF the distance on the shorter axis is called
the semi-minor axis.  That is, the distance from the CENTER of the ellipse
to the edge of the ellipse along the long axis is the semi-major.  The
distance from the CENTER of the ellipse to the edge of the ellipse along
the short axis is the semi-minor.

Remember, you are going to put 2 push-pins some distance from the
CENTER of the ellipse along the major axis.

NOW, call the semi-major axis 'a' and the semi-minor axis 'b' and the
distance from the CENTER of the ellipse to each push pin we will call 'f'.
NOW,  to find that distance 'f'.

f = sqr(a^2 - b^2) which is f is equal to the square-root of the quantity
a squared minus b squared.  Simple?  Assuming you have a calculator
that has squares and square-roots and parenthesis, put in the value for
'a' (half the width of the ellipse) and square it.  Press minus and '('.
put in
the value for 'b' (half the height of the ellipse) and square it. Press ')'
and '='.
Now press square-root.  This is the distance 'f' from the CENTER of the
ellipse along the major (width) axis of the ellipse where you will put
your push pins (remember to put one on both sides of the center the same
distance).

OK, that's half the battle, but the hardest part.  Now you must know the
length of string you need to make the ellipse you want.  This is easier.
If 's' is the length of string (for the whole loop) then s = 2(f+a).  That
is,
the distance you calculated in the previous paragraph plus the length
of the semi-major (half the width of the ellipse) axis time 2.

Take a piece of string a bit longer than 's' (to leave room for the knot)
and make a big loop.  Drape this loop over the pins and insert a pencil,
hold the loop taught against the two pins and the pencil and draw.

If you have any questions, let me know.  This appears about as clear as mud.
Hopefully the picture will help (if it goes through).
-G





----- Original Message -----
From: Irwin Judson <irwin.judson@ns.sympatico.ca>
To: Gregg Wood <gwood@one.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Eliptical Circles


> Gregg:
> Tootin' right, we are interested in the math.
> We would be pleased and grateful if you could present it for us.
> My particular interest is a pending project on the pointy (gothic?) church
> window, which seems based on two partial ellipses.
> Best regards,
> SaltyDog
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gregg Wood <gwood@one.net>
> To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 10:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Eliptical Circles
>
>
> > Did you say 10" x 72"?
> > 6 feet by less than a foot?
> > That's quit the ellipse.
> >
> > Any how, take your pattern paper and draw a straight line down the
middle
> > 72" long and mark the center of it at 36".  Now measure from that center
> > point
> > toward one end of the line 35 5/8" and make a mark.  Do this the other
> way.
> > You should have 2 marks 71 1/4" apart.  Put your nails, push pins, etc
> > through
> > these marks.  Put a pin through one of the end points of the line.  Take
a
> > string
> > and make a loop around all three pins (loosely).  This should take about
> 12
> > feet
> > of string.  Remove the pin from the end point and place you pencil
inside
> > the
> > loop of string and keeping the pencil held snug against the string draw
a
> > big
> > flat circle.  This will be close to 10" by 72".
> >
> > If anyone cares, the math behind this is pretty simple and I will gladly
> > show how to
> > make any ellipse.
> >
> > -G
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <CWicks6159@aol.com>
> > To: <glass@bungi.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 1:17 AM
> > Subject: Eliptical Circles
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Everyone,
> > >
> > > I guess a lot of you have been busy because I've noticed the mail has
> > slowed
> > > down.  I've learned a lot as a beginner from all of you with
experience
> > under
> > > your belt.
> > >
> > > My question to the group is how do you draw elliptical circles (egg
> shape)
> > if
> > > you can't find an object that suits your needs for tracing.  I heard
> there
> > is
> > > a way to draw them using string like you would do for a normal circle.
> My
> > > project is for a long but narrow pane that will hold a business
numeric
> > only
> > > address.  I've tried numerous things and am not getting the size or
> shape
> > > needed.  The panel will be 10"x72".
> > >
> > > HELP!
> > >
> > >   Cyndie
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
>
>

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From owner-glass Tue May 15 23:37:16 2001
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Received: by daver.bungi.com
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	id <m14zusY-0000caa@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Tue, 15 May 2001 23:33:50 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #530 built 2001-Apr-11)
X-Path: aol.com!CWicks6159
From: CWicks6159@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Elliptical Circles
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 02:33:06 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Thank you one and all for the time you took for my request.  I found all of 
them interesting and will try each to find which one is easiest for me being 
such a beginner.

Mahalo from Hawaii.
     Cyndie

p.s.  Whoever said elliptical had both ends identical unlike an egg, thank 
you for correcting the way I described it.  I definitely used the wrong 
comparison.

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From owner-glass Wed May 16 00:02:05 2001
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	id <m14zv96-0000Cja@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Tue, 15 May 2001 23:50:56 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #530 built 2001-Apr-11)
X-Path: aol.com!CWicks6159
From: CWicks6159@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Dragonfly Pattern
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 02:48:21 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Mary,

I have two patterns of dragonflies that you might be able to enlarge to the 
size you want for a garden stake.

The first one is small and was meant for  suncatchers.  The second one you 
could take only the dragonfly out of the complete pattern, which was for a 
lamp.  Nice details on this pattern

Let me know if you would like either or both of there patterns and I'll scan 
it to send to you.

Cyndie


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From owner-glass Wed May 16 06:49:39 2001
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From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bevel Cross
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:43:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@bright.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi to all,
I need some help! I recently sold a bevel cross that I had hanging around
for a long time, now all of a sudden I have several people who want one like
it! The bevel pack is from "The Glass Emporium" and is item number GE-40.
Does anyone know where I can find more of these? Any help is greatly
appreciated!!!
Sarah
May your day be as beautiful as you are...!

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From owner-glass Wed May 16 07:28:38 2001
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From: Awbaxter@aol.com
To: arasai@bright.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Bevel Cross
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:10:29 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
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Sarah,
If you are looking for precut bevel clusters, Warner-Crivellaro has TONS of 
them, in every size, shape, and even in colored bevels.  They also have curly 
hooks, and other metal overlays to use with them.  Contact them for more 
information at:
 info@warner-criv.com

Ann
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From owner-glass Wed May 16 08:00:25 2001
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X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz
From: Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: Sarah <arasai@bright.net>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bevel Cross
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:41:46 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@bright.net>>
Precedence: bulk

There is "The Glass Emporium" in N. Wales, PA, Tel (215) 699-7007. If this is the place you're
referring to, you can call them and they can tell you who they distribute to. I've done this
with other companies. Elaine

Sarah wrote:

> Hi to all,
> I need some help! I recently sold a bevel cross that I had hanging around
> for a long time, now all of a sudden I have several people who want one like
> it! The bevel pack is from "The Glass Emporium" and is item number GE-40.
> Does anyone know where I can find more of these? Any help is greatly
> appreciated!!!
> Sarah
> May your day be as beautiful as you are...!
>
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Wed May 16 08:27:59 2001
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From: Elaine <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: large panel reinforcement
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 11:08:54 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@massed.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>>
Precedence: bulk

Thank you all for help/advice with reinforcing a large panel. You are all most helpful. Thanks
to Gregg for your continued tutelage. It's starting to sink in, really it is. Everyone have a
wonderful day. Elaine

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From owner-glass Wed May 16 21:48:24 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!CWicks6159
From: CWicks6159@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Dragonfly Patterns
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 00:13:43 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
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To all of you who would like copies it would be my pleasure to send them to 
you.  Please give me a couple of days to do it because I work a full-time day 
job besides trying to work with glass.

It thrills me to finally be able to help you folks out with something.

Cyndie


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From owner-glass Thu May 17 05:10:17 2001
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From: mollie2dot <mollie2dot@uswest.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Glass Slumping molds
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 21:54:27 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@uswest.net>
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I have successfully slumped glass into a ceramic bisque form
coated with kiln wash.  In what I have read, no one suggests
slumping glass into (or over) a fired ceramic form.  It
seems that fired ceramic would withstand many more firings
than bisque without warping, and coating with kiln wash
would be as easy as coating steel--heat and coat.  And air
holes can be drilled through a fired ceramic piece.

I'm new to all this, what am I missing?  And if anyone has
tried it, is it better to slump over or into such a piece?

Oh, and my new kiln has a real hot spot in the back left
corner.  Its basically 10x10 inches so there's not a lot of
room to move items away from the corner.  Any suggestions to
even out heat distribution?  

Thanks in advance, Connie
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From owner-glass Thu May 17 08:20:26 2001
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From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobfuses@home.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Glass Slumping molds
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 07:55:30 -0700
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@uswest.net>>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "mollie2dot" <mollie2dot@uswest.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 1:54 PM
Subject: Glass Slumping molds


> I have successfully slumped glass into a ceramic bisque form
> coated with kiln wash.  In what I have read, no one suggests
> slumping glass into (or over) a fired ceramic form.  It
> seems that fired ceramic would withstand many more firings
> than bisque without warping, and coating with kiln wash
> would be as easy as coating steel--heat and coat.  And air
> holes can be drilled through a fired ceramic piece.

You can fire on kiln washed bisque pieces as much as you want. Molds fired
to ceramic are more durable.
>
> I'm new to all this, what am I missing?  And if anyone has
> tried it, is it better to slump over or into such a piece?

The rule is to slump into ceramic and over metal. This takes in to account
the expansion and contraction properties of the two different materials.
>
> Oh, and my new kiln has a real hot spot in the back left
> corner.  Its basically 10x10 inches so there's not a lot of
> room to move items away from the corner.  Any suggestions to
> even out heat distribution?

Sometimes hot spots can be corrected by placing a heat absorber, like a
piece of kiln post, as a heat absorber and shield. A bit of expermintation
should yield at least some correction of the problem.

I never tire of recommending: http://www.warmglass.com as a resource for new
and old alike.


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From owner-glass Thu May 17 09:22:03 2001
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bevel Cross
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 09:20:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@compuserve.com>
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Message text written by "Sarah"
>The bevel pack is from "The Glass Emporium" and is item number GE-40.
Does anyone know where I can find more of these? Any help is greatly
appreciated!!!
Sarah<

The Glass Emporium is a wholesale distributor located about 3 blocks from=

me.  Whilst I don't see GE-40 in their catalog (mine goes up to GE-35), i=
t
wouldn't hurt to give them a call and see what's up.  Contact info:
The Glass Emporium
Ginna & Cathy
131 Dickerson Road #4
North Wales, PA 19454
215-699-7007 1-800-334-7007
fax 1-800-990-6040

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
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From owner-glass Fri May 18 00:17:39 2001
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From: CWicks6159@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Dragonfly Pattern #2
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 02:38:00 EDT
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Let's try this again.

   Cyndie

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From owner-glass Fri May 18 15:58:46 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: mollie2dot <mollie2dot@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Glass Slumping molds
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 22:55:36 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@uswest.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Connie,

I have and continue to use ceramic forms as slumping moulds.  As you say
drill air holes, heat and coat with kiln wash, but don't heat above
about 150 C as the shock of the cold wash will break the form.  (I know
some one did it to one of mine)

Slumping into an existing ceramic form such as a bowl or plate has one
difficulty of a narrow rim, as you cannot have the glass larger than the
form.  This leads to a more narrow rim that sometimes wanted.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@uswest.net>, mollie2dot
<mollie2dot@uswest.net> writes
>I have successfully slumped glass into a ceramic bisque form
>coated with kiln wash.  In what I have read, no one suggests
>slumping glass into (or over) a fired ceramic form.  It
>seems that fired ceramic would withstand many more firings
>than bisque without warping, and coating with kiln wash
>would be as easy as coating steel--heat and coat.  And air
>holes can be drilled through a fired ceramic piece.
>
>I'm new to all this, what am I missing?  And if anyone has
>tried it, is it better to slump over or into such a piece?
>
>Oh, and my new kiln has a real hot spot in the back left
>corner.  Its basically 10x10 inches so there's not a lot of
>room to move items away from the corner.  Any suggestions to
>even out heat distribution?  
>
>Thanks in advance, Connie
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri May 18 22:02:40 2001
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From: "Bev Kelly" <till8er@alimac.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: wholesale glass
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 20:25:38 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@alimac.com>
Precedence: bulk

Anyone in Eugene Oregon that knows of a whole sale glass company>

Thanks

Bev


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From owner-glass Fri May 18 23:54:27 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!CWicks6159
From: CWicks6159@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Patterns
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 02:32:12 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

I remailed a total of 14 people with the patterns.  Please let me know if you 
received the files in one piece.  They were sent in two separate emails in 
hopes of working better.  I've never had problems in sending attachments 
before, so if the files didn't transfer then maybe there is something wrong 
either with my computer or the carrier I use.

Thanks again for your patience.

Cyndie


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From owner-glass Sat May 19 04:01:11 2001
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From: Sherry Greer <texpenguin@yahoo.com>
To: GlassList <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: soldering outside corners
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 03:45:31 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hey folks,
  I'm very new to stained glass, and I thought you all might have a tip
to share with me on this subject.  I've been making small square
suncatchers-just a single piece of glass etched with some design and
framed in u-came.  I've been mitering the came at the corners to give
the most balanced looking solder joint.  I'm having trouble soldering
the outside edge of each corner.  If I set the glass up on end, the
solder runs out of the joint and down the edge, if I lean it one way or
the other, it runs onto the face of the joint.  Any ideas on a better
way to do this?  Thanks!
Sherry Greer

=====
Sherry Greer
texpenguin@yahoo.com
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From owner-glass Sat May 19 12:20:49 2001
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X-Path: home.com!bobfuses
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobfuses@home.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: soldering outside corners
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:00:25 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>
Precedence: bulk

>   I'm very new to stained glass, and I thought you all might have a tip
> to share with me on this subject.  I've been making small square
> suncatchers-just a single piece of glass etched with some design and
> framed in u-came.  I've been mitering the came at the corners to give
> the most balanced looking solder joint.  I'm having trouble soldering
> the outside edge of each corner.  If I set the glass up on end, the
> solder runs out of the joint and down the edge, if I lean it one way or
> the other, it runs onto the face of the joint.  Any ideas on a better
> way to do this?  Thanks!
> Sherry Greer

Several tips:

1. Make sure your lead came is very clean by brushing with a fine wire
brush,

2. Use common masking tape to mask off areas you do not want solder on,

3. Use flux very sparingly and only on areas you want the solder to flow on,

4. Use a rather cool soldering iron,

5. Touch the iron to the solder, pick up a drop and apply to the joint.

6. Do not apply the cold solder wire to the joint and press the iron on it
to melt as done in other cases, and

7. For your square suncatchers you might try to use only one piece of came
to go all the way around the square. Use lead dikes to cut away a V in the
sides of the U-came to get around corners and solder only at the top where
you will also be attaching the hanging eye.




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From owner-glass Sat May 19 15:06:26 2001
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Moya-Don
From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Re: Soldering outside corners
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 14:46:41 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@worldnet.att.net>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C0E072.84685EE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sherry,
If you are only using one piece of glass, and it is 6" square or less =
you can easily use only one piece of came.  Simply stretch your came and =
starting in the upper corner of your piece, cut a 45 degree notch in the =
end on the sides of the came, but not through the top.  Next measure  to =
the next corner and make a light mark where you want to bend the came.  =
Before bending, cut a 45 degree wedge on each side of the mark on each =
side of the came (you will have an
inverted "V".  Now, bend the came so the corner is square and quickly =
tack solder.  Repeat the process for the next 3 corners and on the last =
corner, cut your came so that it meets the beginning and then put in =
your 45 degree notch.
Now go back and add your hanger and finish your corners. Voila, a quick =
and easy solution.
Moya

------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C0E072.84685EE0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Sherry,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>If you are only using one piece of glass, and it =
is 6"=20
square or less you can easily use only one piece of came.&nbsp; Simply =
stretch=20
your came and starting in the upper corner of your piece, cut a 45 =
degree notch=20
in the end on the sides of the came, but not through the top.&nbsp; Next =

measure&nbsp; to the next corner and make a light mark where you want to =
bend=20
the came.&nbsp; Before bending, cut a 45 degree wedge on each side of =
the mark=20
on each side of the came (you will have an</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>inverted "V".&nbsp; Now, bend the came so the =
corner is=20
square and quickly tack solder.&nbsp; Repeat the process for the next 3 =
corners=20
and on the last corner, cut your came so that it meets the beginning and =
then=20
put in your 45 degree notch.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Now go back and add your hanger and finish your =
corners.=20
Voila, a quick and easy solution.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Moya</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C0E072.84685EE0--

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From owner-glass Sun May 20 00:04:10 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!CWicks6159
From: CWicks6159@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Patterns Sent To All
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 02:32:55 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

I completed sending the dragonfly patterns to all who requested them.  Please 
let me know if you received them.  According to the AOL gate keeper some of 
yours were returned either undeliverable or address unknown (same difference 
to me).  Like Santa I double checked each address before sending them off.  
Each of you should have received two individual emails with one pattern each.

I've never had this problem before sending within Hawaii or domestic, can't 
imagine what happened.  I think I need to find a better Internet carrier.

Cyndie


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From owner-glass Sun May 20 12:12:05 2001
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From: CWicks6159@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Great ideas on dragonfly patterns
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 14:51:11 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
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I just received an email which explained to me why these files have not been 
working out.  Thank goodness it wasn't me but AOL's linking problems.

I have an offer to all of you who want the patterns.  Due to my business I do 
have a copier machine at home and would be more than willing to mail each of 
you both patterns if you would like.  That way we by-pass the AOL problems, 
of which I am in the process of looking for a new carrier.  The only thing is 
you each would need to send me you address.

If you chose this route please email your address to cwicks6159@aol.com.  
Turn around time would be quick, in fact tomorrow is Monday and I could put 
it in the mail then.

I keep trying.

Cyndie


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From owner-glass Wed May 23 18:52:47 2001
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From: "CP" <mschatee@twcny.rr.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: A test and a question
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 21:29:33 -0400
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I haven't had any bungi mail in over a week, I was wondering why?  Is it me,
the server or is it just quiet in glass land?
So while I have your attention, whats the policy on making copyrighted
Disney characters.  You can make them for personal use but not for resale is
that it?
Just wondering a friend wanted me to make something and would give me money
for it, but I'm not publicly selling anything.  If anyone knows I'd
appreciate it, I don't want to get in a tumble with Disney.
Thanks,


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From owner-glass Thu May 24 02:37:08 2001
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X-Path: earthlink.net!glasscutter
From: Gerry Phibbs <glasscutter@earthlink.net>
To: CP <mschatee@twcny.rr.com>
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Subject: Re: A test and a question
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 02:04:52 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@earthlink.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@twcny.rr.com>>
Organization: International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Hi CP,
  I'll confirm that the system is still operational, but there's not
been much traffic for a while.
  But your inquiry about the Disney copyright designs seem a reasonable
opportunity for me to bring up something that's been bothering me of
late.  I've noticed many messages from various members of this list and
the glass art community at large, about "trading" patterns, and sending
forth copies of published patterns for various things.  It's an old
issue, part and parcel of doing glass in various degrees.
  As to your specifics about the Disney designs.. all those designs are
fully copyrighted, and Disney is very well known for going to what some
may believe are extreme lengths to protect their designs.  I was
aquatinted with a glass person who did up a fairly large Mickey Mouse
panel.. why I never really knew, and hung it in the front window of
their shop.  Doing so here in Southern California.. well, it was rather
asking for trouble, as there are a large number of Disney employees
living in this area.
  It wasn't long before some Disney legal representatives arrived at the
shop, with some marshals in tow.  They had a court order to seize the
panel, and destroy it in the presence of these representatives and
marshals.  Now, I don't mean disassembled so that some of the glass
might be reused, I mean destroyed right then and there.  That is exactly
what happened, the marshals brought out a hammer and pounded that panel
into shards right then and there, there was absolutely no recourse.
Even the local police who'd been called to the scene, agreed that the
court order was legal, and they could not stop its execution.
  Sadly, that wasn't the end of the story.  There was also a
considerable fine levied against this glass shop - in going though the
records, the legal team uncovered that this was not the first Disney
copyrighted design that had been completed at the shop.  Suffice it to
say, that the glass shop is no longer in business, and I would not be
surprised if the owner was forced into bankruptcy due to the fines and
legal costs.
  Make no mistake about it, there is no "tumble" with Disney, unless
you'd consider a romp with a Tyrannosaur a "tumble".
  Taking money for something, is selling it.  The idea of "public" would
be rather lost on any legal team.  The fact that you knew better than to
try to sell it "publicly" would rather deflate such defense as you might
think you could make.
  Copyrights are there for a reason, they protect us all.  If you choose
to violate somebody else's copyright, then how can you reasonably expect
any protection of your original works?  Further, buying a copyrighted
pattern book and using that pattern for your panel is one thing, your
work becomes a derivative sort of work.  But copying or scanning that
same copyrighted pattern and distributing it to anyone else for their
use, is a totally different matter, an a violation of the copyright.
  I do not wish to claim any expertise as a lawyer (no I don't even play
one on TV), nor on copyright issues, but I'll point you to an
interesting web page that I think may get you thinking a bit about such
copyright matters.  Take a read on Brad Templeton's considerations on
copyright, and then see how you feel about doing Disney patterns, or
using some "pirated" or "shared" patterns.

     http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

  Good luck with you glass work, and..
  Peace  -Gerry

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From owner-glass Thu May 24 04:53:19 2001
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From: "CP" <mschatee@twcny.rr.com>
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Subject: Re: A test and a question
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 06:47:50 -0400
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.Why would Disney sell Pattern books if people can't make them and hang them
in their own windows.  There is a Disney pattern book at my local studio.
How would the Disney officials that had that panel destroyed know or not
know that the pattern came from one of their sanctioned books.  Sounds like
a confusing situation, so let me see if I can get this straight.  Disney
sells stained glass pattern books of their characters, but you can only make
them for personal use.  Selling them is not allowed.  If they see one
hanging and someone questions it and they say it was given to me as a gift
from a friend that makes stained glass is that legal or not?  I think I am
more confused than when I started.
Of course I will not be selling any Disney pieces.

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From owner-glass Thu May 24 05:36:56 2001
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From: Karen Palmer <KPalmer@scjd.state.sc.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: RE: A test and a question
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:09:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@scjd.state.sc.us>
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Would it be illegal for the shop owner to hang a Disney panel in the window
not to sell, but to show how the completed work would look?  I am fuzzy on
all these things!  

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From owner-glass Thu May 24 08:01:13 2001
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X-Path: pobox.com!nadinesfolly
From: "Nadine BethSchneider" <nadinesfolly@POBox.com>
To: "CP" <mschatee@twcny.rr.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: A test and a question
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:09:41 -0400
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I believe you can make up to 10 of each pattern.
You can give them as gifts and I think you can sell
them, too, on an individual basis-like from your
studio.  I think the law comes in if you plan to sell
multiples from a storefront.  I have heard about the
Disney people for years and how uptight they are,
but I don't think they are interested in "small
potatoes".  But, I could be wrong. . .

Nadine

Nadine Beth Schneider
Nadine's Folly, Ltd
www.nadinesfolly.com


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From owner-glass Thu May 24 10:31:54 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: CP <mschatee@twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: A test and a question
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 18:24:10 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@twcny.rr.com>>
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The UK copyright system which should be similar to the USA one, as we
all are signatories to the international copyright convention, you ;can
make a copy for your personal use.  That is you cannot give it away.
The display of an article in a store window would be advertising and so
is not for personal, but commercial use.

Just don't do it, it the safe answer.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@twcny.rr.com>, CP <mschatee@twcny.rr.com>
writes
>
>.Why would Disney sell Pattern books if people can't make them and hang them
>in their own windows.  There is a Disney pattern book at my local studio.
>How would the Disney officials that had that panel destroyed know or not
>know that the pattern came from one of their sanctioned books.  Sounds like
>a confusing situation, so let me see if I can get this straight.  Disney
>sells stained glass pattern books of their characters, but you can only make
>them for personal use.  Selling them is not allowed.  If they see one
>hanging and someone questions it and they say it was given to me as a gift
>from a friend that makes stained glass is that legal or not?  I think I am
>more confused than when I started.
>Of course I will not be selling any Disney pieces.
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu May 24 11:32:47 2001
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From: "James Adams" <JamesAdams@Webzone.net>
To: <Glass@Bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Disney Patterns
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:12:06 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C0E453.218BC340
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	charset="Windows-1252"
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I sent an email to Lisa Musgraves who sells the Disney patterns in her shop
(Memories and Milestones). The following is her reply:

Unfortunately, you cannot use Disney patterns to make any products to sell.
It is stated very clearly on the packaging.  Sorry!

Lisa Musgraves
Memories and Milestones
(909) 270-0212

Based on her reply, I am sure that you can make as many as you want for your
personal use. You just can't sell them.

Pawnee James

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C0E453.218BC340
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<STYLE>BODY {
	FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: "Comic Sans MS", "serif"
}
A {
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	WIDTH: 100%; COLOR: #000000; HEIGHT: 2px
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#f5f5dc>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D320020618-24052001><FONT face=3D'"Comic Sans MS"' =
size=3D4>I sent=20
an email to Lisa Musgraves who sells the Disney patterns in her shop =
(Memories=20
and Milestones). The following is her reply:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D320020618-24052001><FONT =
size=3D4></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D320020618-24052001>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Unfortunately, you cannot use Disney =
patterns to=20
make any products to sell.&nbsp; It is stated very clearly on the=20
packaging.&nbsp; Sorry!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lisa Musgraves<BR>Memories and =
Milestones<BR>(909)=20
270-0212</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D320020618-24052001><FONT size=3D4>Based on her reply, =
I am sure=20
that you can make as many as you want for your personal use. You just =
can't sell=20
them. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D320020618-24052001><FONT =
size=3D4></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D320020618-24052001><FONT size=3D4>Pawnee=20
James</FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu May 24 15:21:52 2001
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From: GlassByDes@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Fwd: A test and a question
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 18:04:31 EDT
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Disney is quick to protect it copyrights. Unless you have written permission 
to do this I would not.
Bob M
Glass By Design, Inc
Ft Lauderdale, FL


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Disney is quick to protect it copyrights. Unless you have written permission 
<BR>to do this I would not.
<BR>Bob M
<BR>Glass By Design, Inc
<BR>Ft Lauderdale, FL
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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I haven't had any bungi mail in over a week, I was wondering why?  Is it me,
the server or is it just quiet in glass land?
So while I have your attention, whats the policy on making copyrighted
Disney characters.  You can make them for personal use but not for resale is
that it?
Just wondering a friend wanted me to make something and would give me money
for it, but I'm not publicly selling anything.  If anyone knows I'd
appreciate it, I don't want to get in a tumble with Disney.
Thanks,


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From owner-glass Thu May 24 15:54:39 2001
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The pattern book you speak of is GlasDesigns, A German company. These 
patterns were taken out of publication. While there are still some copies out 
there and they are completely legal to sell this in no way gives you the 
power to do anything with them on a commercial basis without written 
permission. Their is nothing wrong with personal use of a piece at a 
residence. The problem started when patterns that were made for personal use 
only ended up being sold. A piece that you make and give away, then gets 
sold, do you have the time or money to tumble with that big dog. No way.
Glass By Design
Bob M

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>The pattern book you speak of is GlasDesigns, A German company. These 
<BR>patterns were taken out of publication. While there are still some copies out 
<BR>there and they are completely legal to sell this in no way gives you the 
<BR>power to do anything with them on a commercial basis without written 
<BR>permission. Their is nothing wrong with personal use of a piece at a 
<BR>residence. The problem started when patterns that were made for personal use 
<BR>only ended up being sold. A piece that you make and give away, then gets 
<BR>sold, do you have the time or money to tumble with that big dog. No way.
<BR>Glass By Design
<BR>Bob M</FONT></HTML>

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	for rglass-42; Thu, 24 May 2001 04:38:15 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: twcny.rr.com!mschatee
From: "CP" <mschatee@twcny.rr.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: A test and a question
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 06:47:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@twcny.rr.com>
References: <<55.15f9a297.283dc674@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk
X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version)


.Why would Disney sell Pattern books if people can't make them and hang them
in their own windows.  There is a Disney pattern book at my local studio.
How would the Disney officials that had that panel destroyed know or not
know that the pattern came from one of their sanctioned books.  Sounds like
a confusing situation, so let me see if I can get this straight.  Disney
sells stained glass pattern books of their characters, but you can only make
them for personal use.  Selling them is not allowed.  If they see one
hanging and someone questions it and they say it was given to me as a gift
from a friend that makes stained glass is that legal or not?  I think I am
more confused than when I started.
Of course I will not be selling any Disney pieces.

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From owner-glass Thu May 24 19:35:53 2001
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	for rglass-42; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:08:24 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Karen Palmer <KPalmer@scjd.state.sc.us>
Subject: Re: A test and a question
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 18:28:11 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@scjd.state.sc.us>>
Precedence: bulk

This is advertising, so not acceptable.

Steve
 In message <1970Jan1.000.0@scjd.state.sc.us>, Karen Palmer
<KPalmer@scjd.state.sc.us> writes
>Would it be illegal for the shop owner to hang a Disney panel in the window
>not to sell, but to show how the completed work would look?  I am fuzzy on
>all these things!  
>
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri May 25 01:07:54 2001
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 25 May 2001 00:44:53 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: aol.com!CWicks6159
From: CWicks6159@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Refresh My Memory
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 03:28:39 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

A short time ago one of you mentioned a program that could be used for glass 
designing.  It was some type of CAD program or something.  I'd be interested 
in checking it out if anyone still has the message on their board please send 
me the info.

Thank you
  Cyndie


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From owner-glass Fri May 25 01:55:26 2001
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 25 May 2001 01:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: poczta.onet.pl!krzychkam
From: poczta.onet.pl!krzychkam
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Wooden Base to Panels (Prairie) Lamps
Date: Fri May 25 01:38:13 2001
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@poczta.onet.pl>
Precedence: bulk

Somebody possesses drawings constructional or photo on the ground of which I
would be able individually to execute wooden base to panel lamps (prairie)?
Somebody would be able it me to throw open?
Please for answer (priv address: krzychkam@poczta.onet.pl  )
Heartily thank you for every help.
Cris from Poland.




-- 
26 maja - Dzien Matki. Wygraj kwiaty dla swojej Mamy!
Do rozdania 75 bukietow z dostawa i zyczeniami.
[ http://zakupy.onet.pl/prezenty.asp?k=7 ]

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From owner-glass Fri May 25 07:35:57 2001
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 25 May 2001 07:23:14 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: FW: Refresh My Memory
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 07:08:26 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

dragonfly is one that i've heard is good. they're supposed to have new
version out this fall. i believe they have a free downloadable version for
testing.

http://www.dfly.com/

regards,
charlie
phx, az

-----Original Message-----
From: CWicks6159@aol.com [mailto:CWicks6159@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 12:29 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Refresh My Memory


A short time ago one of you mentioned a program that could be used for glass

designing.  It was some type of CAD program or something.  I'd be interested

in checking it out if anyone still has the message on their board please
send 
me the info.

Thank you
  Cyndie


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From owner-glass Fri May 25 10:05:58 2001
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X-Path: woh.rr.com!arasai
From: "Sarah Wion" <arasai@woh.rr.com>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: New Address
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:45:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@woh.rr.com>
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Hi to all,
I have switched over from bright.net to roadrunner, so please change my
address in your contact list. My new address is: arasai@woh.rr.com.
Thank You,
Sarah
May your day be as beautiful as you are...!

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From owner-glass Sat May 26 06:05:03 2001
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	for rglass-42; Sat, 26 May 2001 05:54:15 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: vgernet.net!jtloan
From: vgernet.net!jtloan
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 12:35:59 -0400 (EDT)
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Am pleased to enclose the condition report on the stained glass windows i=
n your church.  The good news is that you don=92t have to do very much wo=
rk immediately (unless, of course, you want to).  Should you have an ange=
l or obtain a grant, you can do as much restoration as you wish earlier t=
han my recommendations.  I don=92t believe the windows need the protectiv=
e glazing, but I cannot assess your vandalism issues.
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From owner-glass Sun May 27 03:33:12 2001
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Subject: Re: FW: Pattern Program
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 06:23:46 EDT
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Hi All,

There is another pattern program for drawing patterns.  It's called the 
pattern wizard, has some nice features and is a lot cheaper.  You can 
download a free trial copy.  The web address is www.sgdesigns.com.  

Have a good one,

Ken O

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Hi All,
<BR>
<BR>There is another pattern program for drawing patterns. &nbsp;It's called the 
<BR>pattern wizard, has some nice features and is a lot cheaper. &nbsp;You can 
<BR>download a free trial copy. &nbsp;The web address is www.sgdesigns.com. &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>Have a good one,
<BR>
<BR>Ken O</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun May 27 04:33:41 2001
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From: Bill <shmilly@attcanada.ca>
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Subject: new address
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 06:25:32 -0400
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hi..please change my e-mail address to shmilly@sympatico.ca
....thanks.......bill
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From owner-glass Tue May 29 18:05:02 2001
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500 Unknown or unimplemented command
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From owner-glass Wed May 30 21:35:10 2001
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From: moya-don@att.net
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Subject: change of address
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 00:34:47 +0000
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Dear Bungians,
Please change my email address from this one to:

            moya.oneal@verizon.net

Thanks so much

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From owner-glass Thu May 31 19:04:28 2001
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X-Path: home.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: Robin Ballard <rballard@northamericanfund.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Maas metal polish
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:54:06 -0500
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@northamericanfund.com>>
Organization: glassdancer
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What are you trying to acheive with the polish?
Are you darkening lead?  Polishing solder?

The reason I ask, is if you are wanting to blacken your lead came,
rather than just brush it, what we do is after cleaning, we steel wool
the came and rub the came with *weiman's metal creme*.  Then we brush it
with a tampico brush.  It's clean, shiny, black, and waxed.  It does
lose a little black and go sort of gray after a while, but that's what
Ive noticed all lead does.

Suzanne

Robin Ballard wrote:
> 
> I also found it on this website:
> http://www.DusanPolishingProducts.com/
> 
> A little cheaper ($11.65 includeing S&H), but not much.  Hope that helps.
> 
> Robn
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elaine [mailto:wmagdycz@massed.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 4:32 PM
> To: k-sodt@nwu.edu; Bungi
> Subject: Re: Maas metal polish
> 
> Hi Kaye,
> On their web page, a 4oz tube is $12.95, a 1.5lb can is $34.95, free
> shipping. They
> also said that they are on the shopping channels, although I've never seen
> the
> product, but then I only see the shopping channels by mistake. Whoever it is
> that
> wrote about it to Bungi said the stuff is fantastic, but mentioned a very
> low price
> compared to the price on their web page. Maybe he was mistaken about the
> price. When
> you get a chance, if you would check on the price, I would really appreciate
> that. I
> will check the shopping channels, but there are so many of them and they
> seem to go
> 24/7 so my chances of catching it are pretty close to nil. Thank you for
> helping me
> with this. Elaine
> 
> Kaye Sodt wrote:
> 
> > Here in the Chicago area I've seen it at Ace Hardware--in fact they
> > had a lady at a table by the door one time and she cleaned my
> > gold bracelet for me!  I don't recall the price, but it ain't cheap.  If
> > you don't get any better information, I'd be happy to check for you
> > here--and even buy and send it to you if you want....
> >
> > Kaye
> > ------------------------
> > Hi all,
> > Waaay back, someone wrote about Maas polish. Is there anyone out there who
> lives
> > near one of their distributors? Home Depot is one of them. We have one
> here (New
> > England area), but they don't stock it. All Home Depot stores don't stock
> the
> > same items unfortunately. Lowes is also a distributor, but not here. If
> someone
> > knows where it can be purchased and what the cost is, I would appreciate
> the
> > information. I'm waiting for an answer from the Maas people as to when, if
> ever,
> > they will be distributing their product in the Northeast area. Thanks,
> Elaine
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
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> 
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  1 00:22:25 2001
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From: "Sarah Wion" <arasai@woh.rr.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Address change
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:25:00 -0400
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Please change my address to: arasai@woh.rr.com. Thanks!
Sarah
May your day be as beautiful as you are...!

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