From owner-glass Thu Mar  1 03:32:04 2001
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X-Path: northlights.co.uk!toby
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com, "Susan Dale" <susan9977@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Earthquake-and very quite list
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:54:37 -0000
Message-ID: <200103011111.f21BBOb08187@mercury.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi Everybody,

Taa-daaaaam!!!

Welcome Back to Bungi Lee Boe!!!

I was about to ask your permission to quote some extracts from 
your latest e-mail to me into our Bungi-family..... but now you are 
here with us again in person.

I heard the news about the earthquake this morning and was 
particularly thinking of Cheryl Parrott in Seattle. I will try to get in 
touch with her. Pamela (Burns-Tappan).... have you heard??

Spare a thought for us in UK, since like a parallel disaster, we have 
been hit with foot-and-mouth disease. This will have devastating 
results not just for farmers,  pigs, sheep and cattle, but also for 
wild-life in general, in particular the deer - for which this lovely 
county of Hertfordshire is particularly enriched.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (with Meric in tow)

Lee Boe wrote:

Hi All,


I have been lurking for a week,just about to get the computer running good 
again.  Two internal cards are defunct, will be replaced next week, and then 
will be fully operational. Still technically homeless too.

Main reason for un-lurking momentarily, Elisabeth's wonderful message, and 
to thank you all for your help, prayers, and mainly financial help.

As I find all the numerous boxes as I have been packed back and forth each 
one will get a personal letter from me, and an update on the currant 
situation. I will post more on this tonight.

An 7.0 earthquake 30 miles deep got most of coastal Washington a few short 
hours ago. This is one area of interest to me, and the Defuco (sp) plate is 
very deep subduction plate, so watch for all the 'quite' Volcano's in the 
area, to get some activity.  This deep is where magma movement is felt.

We have a lot of glass artists, and ArtMetal members in that area, and all 
will have felt it, real-time. The USGS sites are overloaded right now, but 
the siesmicity sites for volcano's are accessible on the web.

Just a 'heads up' for anyone who has not been tuned in to CNN the last few 
hours.


Thank you all, you have preserved my life, and my reason for living.  I can 
never thank you all enough.  As I am able, each donation will be repaid.




----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Mar  1 12:03:04 2001
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From: Connie Bartel <BLUEHERON@etinternet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: kiln opinions
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 14:42:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

At the risk of being repetitive and hopefully not starting a war 
I wanted to get an update on various people's opinions
and experiences with various types, brands, sizes of kilns for glass work.
I am beginning
my research and hope to purchase within 6 months.  Some of the questions I
have are
110-verses 220, ventilation, repairs, installation concerns, etc.  I do
have Brad Walker's
book. I was going to search the bunji archives but there is no quick way to
do that.
 Used verses new concerns?? Does one type or brand work better for
different types
of warm glass work? I have done cold glass work for 20 years
but never attempted warm glass so I am a newbie for this.  Any takers??
Connie

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From owner-glass Thu Mar  1 12:49:39 2001
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: kiln opinions
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:13:03 -0700 
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

this list is mostly all cold glass. you should ask this question on brad's
http://warmglass.com bulletin board.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Connie Bartel [mailto:BLUEHERON@etinternet.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 12:42 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: kiln opinions
> 
> 
> At the risk of being repetitive and hopefully not starting a war 
> I wanted to get an update on various people's opinions
> and experiences with various types, brands, sizes of kilns 
> for glass work.
> I am beginning
> my research and hope to purchase within 6 months.  Some of 
> the questions I
> have are
> 110-verses 220, ventilation, repairs, installation concerns, 
> etc.  I do
> have Brad Walker's
> book. I was going to search the bunji archives but there is 
> no quick way to
> do that.
>  Used verses new concerns?? Does one type or brand work better for
> different types
> of warm glass work? I have done cold glass work for 20 years
> but never attempted warm glass so I am a newbie for this.  
> Any takers??
> Connie
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Mar  1 15:03:32 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Connie Bartel <BLUEHERON@etinternet.net>
Subject: Re: kiln opinions
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:41:13 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

My reply is coming from the UK so some responses may look odd (just as
some of the questions seem to me!  :-)   )

        A lot of the questions you ask could easily have the answer, "it
depends.."  A lot depends on the type of work you are going to do.
Painting would have one series of answers; fusing and slumping another;
casting would have yet a third.  And of course there will be variations
on each of these.
        Charlie's response that there is a lot of information on Brad's
web site is correct.  Not so correct is the view that this list is cold
glass.

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Connie Bartel <BLUEHERON@etinternet.net>
writes
>At the risk of being repetitive and hopefully not starting a war 
>I wanted to get an update on various people's opinions
>and experiences with various types, brands, sizes of kilns for glass work.
I've used several brands and types of kilns.  In my view the brand is of
very little importance.  The type may be important.  E.g. the Hoaf
speedburn kiln (and there are many other gas fired kilns) is excellent
at paint and slump firings. Not much use at fusing in my view.

>I am beginning
>my research and hope to purchase within 6 months.  Some of the questions I
>have are
>110-verses 220, ventilation, repairs, installation concerns, etc.  
        Get the bigger voltage.  in the UK 220 is standard.  Little
useful work can be done with 110 volts, in my view.  If you will be
doing a lot of work three phase power is useful, as you can put a big
load on the electrical system without blowing fuses.
        Ventilation.  you do have to have space around the kiln, as it
gets hot.  However, a big room will provide space for the heat to
disparate.  You do need ventilation when burning out fillers, etc.  This
can be an open window or door near the kiln, but can also be a big
extractor fan drawing air from a hood over the kiln.
        Most kilns need the kind of repairs you can do yourself, or are
such big items that a specialist is needed.  My first kiln was built in
the 1960's, and ran very well into the mid 90's.  Not much goes wrong
with kilns.  So it is surprising how quickly they loose value.  Second
hand kilns are great value!
        Installation is not a big problem.  A knowledgeable electrician
can do the job in minutes.
>I do
>have Brad Walker's
>book. I was going to search the bunji archives but there is no quick way to
>do that.
> Used verses new concerns?? Does one type or brand work better for
>different types
>of warm glass work? 
        In my view the kilns with top only elements work very well for
most glass kiln work.  If you are going into casting, elements along the
sides work well, but cause some problems for fusing and slumping.
        I would start with a second-hand ceramics kiln, since you can
get them very cheaply.  One with a chamber of about 12" (hxwxd) is a
good one to start with.  If it has manual controls, even better.  Having
to watch the kiln teaches you much more about warm glass work than
having an electronic thing doing what it was told by someone who is only
following instructions, not experience.
        The ceramics kilns are so well insulated that you will normally
have no problems with annealing.  Most glass kilns have to have power
put into them during the cooling process as they cool far too quickly.

Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu Mar  1 15:14:27 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4
From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: <BLUEHERON@etinternet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: kiln opinions
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 17:49:27 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi Connie,
a lot depends on what type of hot or warm glass work that you intend to do.Beadwork for example requires a smaller annealing kiln and getting something large just wastes electric.If you are going to fuse glass and slump get the largest floor surface area kiln that you can afford and it will be a 220v in most cases because of the size.
You cannot go wrong getting a big one for this purpose.
Enamiling kilns work well for annealing small bead work.
Firing small jewelery again you can go with a small quick heating kiln and use a lot less electric as well as save a lot of firing time and annealing time.
Beveler4(Stan)
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From owner-glass Thu Mar  1 21:35:50 2001
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From: "Susan Dale" <susan9977@hotmail.com>
To: BLUEHERON@etinternet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Re: kiln opinions
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 05:13:07 -0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi Connie,

Here is information on kilns of all types, how to build one for your own 
needs, metal work too, and just general all around information on casting, 
pouring, annealing, burn out cycles (yes, glass too) and crucibles from 1 
pound to 500 pounds.  You should see Bruce's site and picture albums, he is 
a one man artist bronze foundry, who does 300 pounds of bronze pour at one 
time.

We also have a marvelous Search Engine here and you have come to  the right 
place. Please try this out and be amazed.   Type in any subject word, media, 
process thought,or author, etc. and just see what it brings up.

http://www.artmetal.com/village/search.html


Everything you ever (or never) wanted to know about kilns, and how to handle 
them. Extensive on line data on building them, firing them, fixing them, and 
haoooolllering at them.

Also for any of the bungi group that might be curious about metal work from 
tiny enameling, intarsa (sp), gem stone preparation, and jewelry work to 
huge art sculpture installations.


Enjoy, and take your time to look around all the forums. Thursday night 
chats are fun too.

Good Luck, the site addresses are below, as well as sign up instructions for 
ArtMetal lists

Lee Boe (Lady Lee)

________________________________________________________________________From: 
  sysop@artmetal.com
Reply-To:  artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu
To:  artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject:  Location URL'S of all the Artmetal Forums
Date:  Sat, 10 Feb 2001 08:40:52 -0500



Message posted on the ArtMetal Village Jewelry Forum.

* * * Please post replies to: * * *

http://www.artmetal.com/village/BBS/bbs_forum.cgi?forum=jewelry&read=000193-000000.msg


Welcome
I am one of the artist monitors and thought from your letter you might find 
this
of interest...

Actually you wrote to a file that is archived more for reading and is not 
being
actively used as much anymore though obviously your message got through.
You may like to also 'subscribe' (no cost and can always unsubscribe if you
like) to our active news site that is a near real time interaction.    This 
goes
to about 300 plus artists that get it as fast as it is posted and you would 
then
be on that list.
bpfink
If interested :

Subscribing to the ArtMetal mail list
send an email message to:

listproc@mail.wustl.edu

Put in the body:

subscribe ARTMETAL<your name>
_____________________________________________________________________ All 
this
information is found elsewhere but since you are wtiting here may I add a 
note to catch your first attention:

SEARCH ENGINE ARTMETAL/BRAMYAK123/and all FORUMS


      How we love to help those that help themselves.   We also have a 
marvelous
Search Engine here and you have come to  the right place. Please try this 
out
and be amazed.   Type in any subject word,
media,
process thought,
or author, etc. and just see what it brings up.
  http://www.artmetal.com/village/search.html
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
  also in the bramblbush group

It takes a while to load, please be patient or as it suggests on the fast 
first page, there are links
to the corresponding Forums that are now the active use files

  Casting   http://www.artmetal.com/brambush/forum/bramyak1/index.html

  Forging     http://www.artmetal.com/brambush/forum/bramyak2/index.html

  Fabrication  http://www.artmetal.com/brambush/forum/bramyak3/index.html
************************************************
CHAT image site to post jpg's for the thursday nite 10-12 PM CHATS
please keep them to less than 125 K in size or they will not be accepted
http://www.artmetal.com/w-agora/index.php3?bn=techtalk_chat
and on thursday nite the CHAT site itself is:
http://www.artmetal.com/village/chat/main/index.htm
************************************************
CASTING FORUM
http://www.artmetal.com/w-agora/index.php3?bn=techtalk_casting

DESIGN FORUM
http://www.artmetal.com/w-agora/index.php3?bn=techtalk_design

FABRICATION FORUM
http://www.artmetal.com/w-agora/index.php3?bn=techtalk_fabrication

FINISHES FORUM
http://www.artmetal.com/w-agora/index.php3?bn=techtalk_finishes

FORGING FORUM
http://www.artmetal.com/w-agora/index.php3?bn=techtalk_forging

IMAGE GALLERY
http://www.artmetal.com/w-agora/index.php3?bn=techtalk_images

JEWELRY FORUM
http://www.artmetal.com/w-agora/index.php3?bn=techtalk_jewelry


WELCOME


________________________________________________________________________



>From: Connie Bartel <BLUEHERON@etinternet.net>
>To: glass@bungi.com
>Subject: kiln opinions
>Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 14:42:18 -0500
>
>At the risk of being repetitive and hopefully not starting a war
>I wanted to get an update on various people's opinions
>and experiences with various types, brands, sizes of kilns for glass work.
>I am beginning
>my research and hope to purchase within 6 months.  Some of the questions I
>have are
>110-verses 220, ventilation, repairs, installation concerns, etc.  I do
>have Brad Walker's
>book. I was going to search the bunji archives but there is no quick way to
>do that.
>  Used verses new concerns?? Does one type or brand work better for
>different types
>of warm glass work? I have done cold glass work for 20 years
>but never attempted warm glass so I am a newbie for this.  Any takers??
>Connie
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

----
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From owner-glass Fri Mar  2 11:04:22 2001
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From: "robertcbullock" <robertcbullock@enterprise.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Kiln Opinions.
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 00:58:21 -0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Nice one Steve.
This list is certainly not mainly cold glass and it would be good to see
more people progressing to fired glass.
My work is mainly fired artwork and I am still using the gas fired kiln
which I built myself some fifteen years ago.
It's a top firing kiln and takes about twenty minutes to reach firing
temperature. Thus, it's very cheap to run. Annealing takes under two hours
so I can fire every two and a half hours tops. It took me some considerable
time to get it set up right but it has performed great since.
As electric seems to be favourite I'm not sure if my information is much
good.
I do know that when I built the kiln it cost about one hundred pounds (one
hundred and fifty dollers) in todays money but this is doing it yourself and
requires some other skills such as electric welding. I can only say that it
was well worth the effort and would probably be well worth those people
inerested enough even if they had to get other people to do some of the
work.
If anybody is interested I could write a more detailed description and
include some drawings which may take some time due to work load and two
beautiful little boys.

Regards.

Robert.




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From owner-glass Fri Mar  2 16:31:12 2001
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X-Path: together.net!jbuckner
From: Jennifer Buckner <jbuckner@together.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: progress?
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:27:07 -0500
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010302192403.00aac3e0@pop.together.net>
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"This list is certainly not mainly cold glass and it would be good to see
more people progressing to fired glass."

Progressing???  Maybe we could re-phrase that to reflect a more egalitarian 
view of the craft?  I wasn't aware that cold or flat glass people hadn't 
"progressed".

Jennifer

Jennifer G. Buckner jbuckner@together.net

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From owner-glass Sat Mar  3 17:38:55 2001
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From owner-glass Sun Mar  4 07:02:58 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!PookyPook
From: PookyPook@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_96.10d9f41a.27d3ae68_boundary"
Subject: Subscription
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 09:42:48 EST
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Please unsub me! I do NOT appreciate getting porno stuff on any list that I 
am on! 

Ruth
"If we quit voting will they all go away?"
http://members.aol.com/RTSkeeter
 ICQ11716411



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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Please unsub me! I do NOT appreciate getting porno stuff on any list that I 
<BR>am on! 
<BR>
<BR>Ruth
<BR>"If we quit voting will they all go away?"
<BR>http://members.aol.com/RTSkeeter
<BR> ICQ11716411
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Mar  4 08:01:47 2001
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 07:55:25 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #529 built 2001-Feb-6)
X-Path: ltdarkpoet.junglelink.co.uk!charliehodge
From: "steve" <charliehodge@ltdarkpoet.junglelink.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: ANOTHER VIRUS I GUESS
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 14:25:44 -0000
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i guess its got to be a virus the third time from the same address how do
these keep getting through
charlie

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From owner-glass Sun Mar  4 14:07:22 2001
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From: PookyPook@aol.com
To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_cd.3192780.27d41295_boundary"
Subject: Re: Subscription
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 16:50:13 EST
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I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound so gruff.... just been getting more than my 
share, it seems, lately. I am on about 20 or more lists and really haven't 
had this happen but once or twice in a list. I will admit that most of them 
are NOT through a list. If this is correct, and not the norm for this list, I 
would love to stay on it.. I should have thought it through more and 
rephrased my concerns before I got so huffy.. I do apologize. 

Ruth
"If we quit voting will they all go away?"
http://members.aol.com/RTSkeeter
 ICQ11716411



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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound so gruff.... just been getting more than my 
<BR>share, it seems, lately. I am on about 20 or more lists and really haven't 
<BR>had this happen but once or twice in a list. I will admit that most of them 
<BR>are NOT through a list. If this is correct, and not the norm for this list, I 
<BR>would love to stay on it.. I should have thought it through more and 
<BR>rephrased my concerns before I got so huffy.. I do apologize. 
<BR>
<BR>Ruth
<BR>"If we quit voting will they all go away?"
<BR>http://members.aol.com/RTSkeeter
<BR> ICQ11716411
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun Mar  4 15:27:27 2001
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 15:09:32 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #529 built 2001-Feb-6)
X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: PookyPook@aol.com
Subject: Re: Subscription
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 18:57:54 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

I don't know how many lists you are on, but this one has a very good
record in keeping all kinds of spam off it.  I think in the time I have
been here this is the only one of this nature( I didn't open it so I am
making a value judgement, of course).  

Steve

  In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, PookyPook@aol.com writes
>    Please unsub me! I do NOT appreciate getting porno stuff on any 
>    list that I 
>    am on! 
>
>    Ruth 
>    "If we quit voting will they all go away?" 
>    http://members.aol.com/RTSkeeter 
>    ICQ11716411 

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Sun Mar  4 18:00:05 2001
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #529 built 2001-Feb-6)
X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
To: <PookyPook@aol.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: Subscription
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 20:41:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0A4EB.71F18F60
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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1 in every 7000 or so messages maybe spam, though this is the first time a
virus was attached (or some kind of attachment). my guess it's on their
server, found the mail list and sent it out. note the address it had was
daver@bungi, and not glass@bungi. so it came directly from the source. i
ignored it, like i do with all the other things i get.


---Mike Savad


---
Mike's Stained Glass - http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/
Contains a wealth of stained glass information, stained glass tips, stained
glass instruction, and many, many stained glass links.
---
11-7-00 - New Stuff Added: How to solder a nice bead, and several new
projects. You can now search my site with a built in engine.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: PookyPook@aol.com [mailto:PookyPook@aol.com]
  Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 4:50 PM
  To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
  Subject: Re: Subscription


  I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound so gruff.... just been getting more than
my
  share, it seems, lately. I am on about 20 or more lists and really haven't
  had this happen but once or twice in a list. I will admit that most of
them
  are NOT through a list. If this is correct, and not the norm for this
list, I
  would love to stay on it.. I should have thought it through more and
  rephrased my concerns before I got so huffy.. I do apologize.

  Ruth
  "If we quit voting will they all go away?"
  http://members.aol.com/RTSkeeter
  ICQ11716411



------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0A4EB.71F18F60
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D570293801-05032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>1&nbsp;in every 7000 or so messages maybe&nbsp;spam, though =
this is the=20
first time a virus was attached (or some kind of attachment). my guess =
it's on=20
their server, found the mail list and sent it out. note the address it =
had was=20
<A href=3D"mailto:daver@bungi">daver@bungi</A>, and not <A=20
href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi">glass@bungi</A>. so it came directly from =
the source.=20
i ignored it, like i do with all the other things i =
get.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D570293801-05032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D570293801-05032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D570293801-05032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>---Mike Savad</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D570293801-05032001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>---<BR>Mike's Stained Glass - <A target=3D_blank=20
href=3D"http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/">http://www.geocities.com/Pa=
ris/1141/</A><BR>Contains=20
a wealth of stained glass information, stained glass tips, stained glass =

instruction, and many, many stained glass links.<BR>---<BR>11-7-00 - New =
Stuff=20
Added: How to solder a nice bead, and several new projects. You can now =
search=20
my site with a built in engine.</FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> PookyPook@aol.com=20
  [mailto:PookyPook@aol.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 04, 2001 4:50 =

  PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:=20
  Subscription<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2>I'm=20
  sorry, I didn't mean to sound so gruff.... just been getting more than =
my=20
  <BR>share, it seems, lately. I am on about 20 or more lists and really =
haven't=20
  <BR>had this happen but once or twice in a list. I will admit that =
most of=20
  them <BR>are NOT through a list. If this is correct, and not the norm =
for this=20
  list, I <BR>would love to stay on it.. I should have thought it =
through more=20
  and <BR>rephrased my concerns before I got so huffy.. I do apologize.=20
  <BR><BR>Ruth <BR>"If we quit voting will they all go away?"=20
  <BR>http://members.aol.com/RTSkeeter <BR>ICQ11716411=20
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0A4EB.71F18F60--

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From owner-glass Mon Mar  5 00:48:42 2001
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 00:30:13 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #529 built 2001-Feb-6)
X-Path: policeone.com!officerjqg
From: officerjqg@policeone.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Virus and Question
Date: 5 Mar 2001 00:26:23 -0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all
I have done some work on trying to find the source of the idiot who is responsible for the e-mails that have come our way.  So far I have been able to get some info but will take the cooperation of my ISP and whoever runs his server to get any where.  The information I got so far is 
Server Name: DAVER.BUNGI.COM
   IP Address: 206.14.228.2
   IP Address: 207.126.97.2
   Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC.
   Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
   Referral URL: www.networksolutions.com

most likely this wont get resolved but in doing this I had a question or 2.

As far as I know we cannot send attachments through the list right???????

If so maybe we shouldn’t.

Is our list at anytime for sale?  I hope not.

anyway just a brief reminder to ensure that you never get a virus.

NEVER OPEN AN ATTACHMENT YOU WERE NOT EXPECTING IN ADVANCE FROM SOMEONE YOU KNOW.

Particularly EXE files but in general none of them.

And just to make this glass related has anyone fused, slumped, whatever, a glass design into a piece or pieces that were later used in a panel.  I figure you wont be able to cut it after you take it out of the kiln but if done right could be a way of expanding possibilities in the art.  I would be interested in this and would like to see artwork that has been done before I buy a kiln.

Anyways 
have a good day and stay outa trouble.


James


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From owner-glass Mon Mar  5 01:38:55 2001
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X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio
From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Subscription
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:23:25 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

At 16:50 04/03/01 EST, Pooky wrote:

>I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound so gruff.... just been getting more than my 
>share, it seems, lately. 

I think it is everywhere - not just through this list.
I am at present trying to get rid of the 'snow white' trojan horse which has
zapped one of our computers - luckily making it impossible to email out from
that machine.  I say 'luckily' because I am told that if I had been able to
send emails from that computer I would myself be sending out many of these
viruses - as it happens automatically once the virus slips through the
system - completely unknown to the sender!!
I have been told that these porno pictures are a similar virus and the
originator is working on peoples curiosity/libido etc to get people to open
them and thus install the virus on their own computers.
>From what my ISP says it is impossible to trace the original sender as the
messages are sent from so many 'innocent' senders.  but they did say that as
long as you DONT OPEN  any of the attached files you will be OK.  
Still wondering how MY computer got infected as I go through and delete all
attachments after receoving emails and before opening any messages!! - Oh
well.....
So all we can do is be vigilant and run uptodate antivirus software.

Regards
EliZabeth in Bournemouth

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From owner-glass Mon Mar  5 03:31:04 2001
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 03:23:36 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #529 built 2001-Feb-6)
X-Path: worldnet.att.net!ellenraper
From: Ellen Raper <ellenraper@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: question
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 06:19:05 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010305061905.007dc5b0@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Precedence: bulk

I have fused flat pieces and then put them into a panel. I have combined
stained glass with fused pieces in the same piece and I am currently doing
a panel which will be all fused pieces. I have cut straight edges in the
fused pieces (one thin layer with frit design) using my glass cutter and
been successful. I prefer post-fusing to cut the edges as I find these
easier to foil than the rounded fused edges. Thus I make the fused piece
larger than I want it so I can cut it after fusing - for the curved edges I
have chickened out and used the ring saw.

Ellen
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From owner-glass Mon Mar  5 05:31:59 2001
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 05:19:35 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #529 built 2001-Feb-6)
X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
To: <officerjqg@policeone.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Virus and Question
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:22:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

so you know, daver is the one who runs the list, it's on his server. it's
most likely a worm on his drive that found a list of names (the people on
bungi), and it used his server as the distribution point for the virus. the
same can happen to your computer if it's not protected.



---Mike Savad

---
Mike's Stained Glass - http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/
Contains a wealth of stained glass information, stained glass tips, stained
glass instruction, and many, many stained glass links.
---
11-7-00 - New Stuff Added: How to solder a nice bead, and several new
projects. You can now search my site with a built in engine.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: officerjqg@policeone.com [mailto:officerjqg@policeone.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:26 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Virus and Question
>
>
> Hi all
> I have done some work on trying to find the source of the idiot
> who is responsible for the e-mails that have come our way.  So
> far I have been able to get some info but will take the
> cooperation of my ISP and whoever runs his server to get any
> where.  The information I got so far is
> Server Name: DAVER.BUNGI.COM
>    IP Address: 206.14.228.2
>    IP Address: 207.126.97.2
>    Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC.
>    Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
>    Referral URL: www.networksolutions.com
>
> most likely this wont get resolved but in doing this I had a
> question or 2.
>
> As far as I know we cannot send attachments through the list right???????
>
> If so maybe we shouldn’t.
>
> Is our list at anytime for sale?  I hope not.
>
> anyway just a brief reminder to ensure that you never get a virus.
>
> NEVER OPEN AN ATTACHMENT YOU WERE NOT EXPECTING IN ADVANCE FROM
> SOMEONE YOU KNOW.
>
> Particularly EXE files but in general none of them.
>
> And just to make this glass related has anyone fused, slumped,
> whatever, a glass design into a piece or pieces that were later
> used in a panel.  I figure you wont be able to cut it after you
> take it out of the kiln but if done right could be a way of
> expanding possibilities in the art.  I would be interested in
> this and would like to see artwork that has been done before I buy a kiln.
>
> Anyways
> have a good day and stay outa trouble.
>
>
> James
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Mon Mar  5 10:02:24 2001
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:47:39 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #529 built 2001-Feb-6)
X-Path: aol.com!Kauriee
From: Kauriee@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_6c.84b4ceb.27d52a77_boundary"
Subject: Stained Glass History
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:44:23 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk


--part1_6c.84b4ceb.27d52a77_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Hi All,
I was wondering if any of you have any recommendations for a good resource on 
the History of Stained Glass.  I have been doing stained glass for many years 
and have always wanted to research its origins.  I started going back to 
school full time, and am taking an Art History course.  For my final project 
I have decided to do a PowerPoint presentation (required) on the history of 
Stained Glass (subject was my choice!)  If anyone has any archived 
information on the history of our art form, or recommendations on places I 
can find old pictures, etc.. please let me know!  
Thank you all in advance for your help!  I will gladly post the final results 
to our group for anyone who is interested!


Kauriee Wood
The Looking Glass
Felton, Delaware 19904


--part1_6c.84b4ceb.27d52a77_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Hi All,
<BR>I was wondering if any of you have any recommendations for a good resource on 
<BR>the History of Stained Glass. &nbsp;I have been doing stained glass for many years 
<BR>and have always wanted to research its origins. &nbsp;I started going back to 
<BR>school full time, and am taking an Art History course. &nbsp;For my final project 
<BR>I have decided to do a PowerPoint presentation (required) on the history of 
<BR>Stained Glass (subject was my choice!) &nbsp;If anyone has any archived 
<BR>information on the history of our art form, or recommendations on places I 
<BR>can find old pictures, etc.. please let me know! &nbsp;
<BR>Thank you all in advance for your help! &nbsp;I will gladly post the final results 
<BR>to our group for anyone who is interested!
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Kauriee Wood
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#008080" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">The Looking Glass</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#008080" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Felton, Delaware 19904</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_6c.84b4ceb.27d52a77_boundary--
----
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From owner-glass Mon Mar  5 14:46:37 2001
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	id <m14a3dF-0000f6a@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:39:09 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #529 built 2001-Feb-6)
X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: officerjqg@policeone.com
Subject: Incorporation of fused pieces into panels
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:20:15 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, officerjqg@policeone.com writes
....cut......
>And just to make this glass related has anyone fused, slumped, whatever, a glass 
>design into a piece or pieces that were later used in a panel.  I figure you 
>wont be able to cut it after you take it out of the kiln but if done right could 
>be a way of expanding possibilities in the art.  I would be interested in this 
>and would like to see artwork that has been done before I buy a kiln.
>

James.
        There is no reason why properly annealed glass that has been
fused cannot be cut.  I have done it many times.  Often it is more
difficult to cut, but that is only because it is often thicker than the
normal glass.  The fused pieced can be ground as well.  Or, if you must,
you can use your glass cutting saw.  :-)
        Buy a second hand kiln to start with, often you can get throw-
outs from schools.  A ceramics kiln (this is what schools are using)
will work well for fusing glass.  Look at Brad Walker's Warm Glass site
for lots of information.
www.warmglass.com

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Mon Mar  5 15:02:06 2001
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Received: by daver.bungi.com
	via smail with stdio
	id <m14a3df-0000Gba@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:39:35 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #529 built 2001-Feb-6)
X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Kauriee@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: Stained Glass History
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:34:39 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Three books I have found interesting are:
Patrick Reyntiens.  The Beauty of Stained Glass.  Bullfinch Press,
Little, Brown & Co., 1990  ISBN 08212 1811 5.  This is by a well known
British stained glass artist.

Sarah Brown.  Stained Glass, an Illustrated History.  Studio Editions,
1992.  ISBN 1 85170 838 3  Sarah Brown works with the Royal Commission
on Ancient Monuments, with responsibility for medieval glass.

Catherine Brisac.  A Thousand Years of Stained Glass.  Doubleday & Co.,
1986.  ISBN 0 385 23184 9.  A lavishly illustrated book.

There are other, more technical works of course.

Steve



In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Kauriee@aol.com writes
>    Hi All, 
>    I was wondering if any of you have any recommendations for a good 
>    resource on 
>    the History of Stained Glass.  I have been doing stained glass for 
>    many years 
>    and have always wanted to research its origins.  I started going 
>    back to 
>    school full time, and am taking an Art History course.  For my 
>    final project 
>    I have decided to do a PowerPoint presentation (required) on the 
>    history of 
>    Stained Glass (subject was my choice!)  If anyone has any archived 
>    information on the history of our art form, or recommendations on 
>    places I 
>    can find old pictures, etc.. please let me know!   
>    Thank you all in advance for your help!  I will gladly post the 
>    final results 
>    to our group for anyone who is interested! 
>
>
>    Kauriee Wood 
>    The Looking Glass 
>    Felton, Delaware 19904 

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Mon Mar  5 15:38:09 2001
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #529 built 2001-Feb-6)
X-Path: warmglass.com!mbwalker
From: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@warmglass.com>
To: <officerjqg@policeone.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Incorporation of fused pieces into panels
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:30:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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> In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, officerjqg@policeone.com writes
> ....cut......
> >And just to make this glass related has anyone fused, slumped, whatever,
a glass
> >design into a piece or pieces that were later used in a panel.  I figure
you
> >wont be able to cut it after you take it out of the kiln but if done
right could
> >be a way of expanding possibilities in the art.  I would be interested in
this
> >and would like to see artwork that has been done before I buy a kiln.
> >

As Steve Richard mentioned, fused glass can be cut, ground, or otherwise
coldworked.  Because it tends to be thicker than regular glass, you often
need to cut it with a saw, but I have cut some pieces with a normal glass
cutter (you can also get cutters made for cutting thicker work).  Fused work
is often incorporated into panels and used in leaded or copper foil work.

There's a lot of information on fused glass on my website
(www.warmglass.com), including some photos of stained glass work that
incorporates fused pieces.  Look in the Warm Glass Gallery on the website
(pages three and four) for work by David Hobday.  Hobday has some nice
pieces that combine leaded windows with fused elements.

A kiln is also very useful for permanently firing glass paints, which has
historically been incorporated in stained glass panels.  The site also
contains some painted works.

Brad Walker

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From owner-glass Mon Mar  5 16:56:32 2001
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Subject: re: History of Stained Glass
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:24:33 -0800
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Hi,=20

I just came upon a link the other day in http://agsa.org/history.html in =
their website has a brief overview on the history of stained glass, =
might help inspire some Ideas!

Thanks=20
Daniel
Visions In Stained Glass=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I just came upon a link the other day =
in <A=20
href=3D"http://agsa.org/history.html">http://agsa.org/history.html</A> =
in their=20
website has a brief overview on the history of stained glass, might help =
inspire=20
some Ideas!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Daniel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.dreamkeepersandtheorderoflight.com/"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Visions In Stained Glass</FONT>&nbsp;</A></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Mon Mar  5 19:39:31 2001
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Stained Glass History
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:23:47 -0800 (PST)
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The video "Walls of Light, The history of Stained
Glass" is an excellent video with some great examples
and is 85 minutes long.

Alex Gacic
Shalimar, FL

--- Kauriee@aol.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> I was wondering if any of you have any
> recommendations for a good resource on 
> the History of Stained Glass.  I have been doing
> stained glass for many years 
> and have always wanted to research its origins.  I
> started going back to 
> school full time, and am taking an Art History
> course.  For my final project 
> I have decided to do a PowerPoint presentation
> (required) on the history of 
> Stained Glass (subject was my choice!)  If anyone
> has any archived 
> information on the history of our art form, or
> recommendations on places I 
> can find old pictures, etc.. please let me know!  
> Thank you all in advance for your help!  I will
> gladly post the final results 
> to our group for anyone who is interested!
> 
> 
> Kauriee Wood
> The Looking Glass
> Felton, Delaware 19904
> 
> 


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In a message dated 3/5/01 12:50:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
officerjqg@policeone.com writes:


> And just to make this glass related has anyone fused, slumped, whatever, a 
> glass design into a piece or pieces that were later used in a panel.  I 
> figure you wont be able to cut it after you take it out of the kiln but if 
> done right could be a way of expanding possibilities in the art.  I would 
> be interested in this and would like to see artwork that has been done 
> before I buy a kiln.
> 
> 
I do it all the time. It has got so I fuse leaves, flowers, hummingbirds, 
etc., and then lead them into windows. With a proper annealing and final 
cooling program the fused glass cuts far better than prior to fusing.

A simple fused leaf with a raised seam down the middle and perhaps a slight 
curve is, IMO, far superior to just a plain piece of glass leaded in a 
window. Fused hummers are far "lighter" than leaded hummers and actually 
easier to do than trying to lead up a bunch of small pieces. I can fuse a 
small piece of black for an eye in the middle of a piece of glass that looks 
like a real hummer eye.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><B>In a message dated 3/5/01 12:50:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
<BR>officerjqg@policeone.com writes:
<BR>
<BR></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">And just to make this glass related has anyone fused, slumped, whatever, a 
<BR>glass design into a piece or pieces that were later used in a panel. &nbsp;I 
<BR>figure you wont be able to cut it after you take it out of the kiln but if 
<BR>done right could be a way of expanding possibilities in the art. &nbsp;I would 
<BR>be interested in this and would like to see artwork that has been done 
<BR>before I buy a kiln.
<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR><B>I do it all the time. It has got so I fuse leaves, flowers, hummingbirds, 
<BR>etc., and then lead them into windows. With a proper annealing and final 
<BR>cooling program the fused glass cuts far better than prior to fusing.
<BR>
<BR>A simple fused leaf with a raised seam down the middle and perhaps a slight 
<BR>curve is, IMO, far superior to just a plain piece of glass leaded in a 
<BR>window. Fused hummers are far "lighter" than leaded hummers and actually 
<BR>easier to do than trying to lead up a bunch of small pieces. I can fuse a 
<BR>small piece of black for an eye in the middle of a piece of glass that looks 
<BR>like a real hummer eye.
<BR>
<BR>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6</B></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Mar  6 00:11:09 2001
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From owner-glass Tue Mar  6 04:08:20 2001
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You learn something new everyday, for me two.
One you can cut glass after being in the kiln, two dont walk on heater vents barefoot when the heat is on.
I think I have a new calling.  I just moves to a place in the country and it has a out building that will be the new studio when I refurbish it.  When I run a power line to it I will insure that it has a 220 outlet for the kiln I will buy to put in it.  This will be fun.


James


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From owner-glass Tue Mar  6 06:03:31 2001
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Subject: Re: progress?
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Thank you Jennifer,

You took the words out of my mouth!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

"This list is certainly not mainly cold glass and it would be good to see
more people progressing to fired glass."

Progressing???  Maybe we could re-phrase that to reflect a more egalitarian 
view of the craft?  I wasn't aware that cold or flat glass people hadn't 
"progressed".


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I always check who send mails and after delete the
mails who seem strange. I dont know who send me these
and I read the someone else receive these mails too,
so I think that are from someone who has nothing to
do.

Its great this group, but now I know that I have to be
carefully.



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From owner-glass Tue Mar  6 13:21:35 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:04:35 -0000
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A little touchy aren't we.
I was not aware that I had said, or inferred, that cold or flat glass people
had not progressed. But if I caused upset, then I apologise.
One progresses through the various stages of proficiency in cold, flat glass
and could spend a lifetime at it producing beautiful work. It is an
essential precursor if you wanted to produce a panel with applied, fired
artwork. It doesn't mean that hot glass is better than cold glass, it's
another skill added to our pool of skills.
This I referred to as progress, just as one may progress to designing all
their own work rather than obtaining designs from others.
Life is a journey and while on this, hopefully, long and twisting road we
are learning all the time, both in our skills and attitudes. Is this not
progress?

Robert.

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     I especially like the last part of the previous msg
             Very well said,   Robert
                       BRAVO




           Patricia McMaster
Technical Support Center Analyst
              636.519.3751
       patty.mcmaster@fbol.com

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From: "robertcbullock" <robertcbullock@enterprise.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: History of Stained Glass.
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:23:52 -0000
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Try,    http://elore.com/Gothic/Learning/rose_windows.htm

Robert.

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From owner-glass Tue Mar  6 17:40:58 2001
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X-Path: warmglass.com!mbwalker
From: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@warmglass.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: progress?
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:38:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200103061121.f26BL9s09112@mercury.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

> "This list is certainly not mainly cold glass and it would be good to see
> more people progressing to fired glass."
>
> Progressing???  Maybe we could re-phrase that to reflect a more
egalitarian
> view of the craft?  I wasn't aware that cold or flat glass people hadn't
> "progressed".
>

The irony of this, of course, is that from a historical perspective "fired
glass" came first and "cold glass" was developed later, so it could be said
that that moving from cold glass to fired glass is regressing, not
progressing.

Seriously, I'm sure that the original statement was only meant to reflect
the fact that many warm glass artists began their glass careers as stained
glass artists.  Perhaps all the pornography, spam, and viruses that have
come through Bungi lately has made us forget that most of the people who
respond to the list are well-intentioned, helpful, and considerate of
others.

Brad Walker
(owner of that most regressive of sites, www.warmglass.com)


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From owner-glass Tue Mar  6 18:44:58 2001
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X-Path: juno.com!himest
From: himest@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Fw: Re: progress?
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:33:18 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I agree.  The most important thing is to keep issues in perspective. 
Whether warm or cold glass - -both are respective in their own right.  

As a beginner cold glasser, I applaud everyone on this list THANK YOU!
that helps us newbies out by sharing the "tricks of the trade."  I can't
tell you how much I appreciate it and I am learning very much by just
reading the inquiries!

Thanks again, Teresa in Texas

--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@warmglass.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:38:07 -0500
Subject: Re: progress?
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200103061121.f26BL9s09112@mercury.nildram.co.uk>>

> "This list is certainly not mainly cold glass and it would be good to
see
> more people progressing to fired glass."
>
> Progressing???  Maybe we could re-phrase that to reflect a more
egalitarian
> view of the craft?  I wasn't aware that cold or flat glass people
hadn't
> "progressed".
>

The irony of this, of course, is that from a historical perspective
"fired
glass" came first and "cold glass" was developed later, so it could be
said
that that moving from cold glass to fired glass is regressing, not
progressing.

Seriously, I'm sure that the original statement was only meant to reflect
the fact that many warm glass artists began their glass careers as
stained
glass artists.  Perhaps all the pornography, spam, and viruses that have
come through Bungi lately has made us forget that most of the people who
respond to the list are well-intentioned, helpful, and considerate of
others.

Brad Walker
(owner of that most regressive of sites, www.warmglass.com)


----
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From owner-glass Wed Mar  7 18:02:52 2001
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X-Path: yahoo.com!ose_ehi
From: ose ehi <ose_ehi@yahoo.com>
To: ose_ehi@yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: BUSINESS PROPOSAL
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:44:45 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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DEAR SIR,

         BUSINESS PROPOSAL STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL

I AM DR.OSE EHI. THE DIRECTOR, PROJECT PROCUREMENT AND
IMPLEMENTATION WITH THE NIGERIAN NATIONAL PETROLEUM
CORPORATION (NNPC) OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF NIGERIA.

SOME TIME AGO, MY CORPORATION AWARDED A CONTRACT TO
TOTAL OIL INTERNATIONAL TO SERVICE TURN AROUND
MAINTENANCE AND REHABILIATION WORK ON KADUNA REFINERY
AND PETROCHEMICAL COMPANY (KRPC) PLANT IN NIGERIA.,
THIS CONTRACT WAS OVER-INVOICED BY US TO A TUNE OF
THIRTY ONE MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS ONLY
(US$31,000.000.00). SOME OFFICIALS AND MYSELF REACHED
A COMPROMISE TO TRANSFER THIS FUND INTO A FOREIGN
ACCOUNT THAT WILL ACCOMMODATE THIS FUND, WE HAVE ALL
MODALITIES SET FOR THE SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THIS
PROJECT.

FOR PROVIDING THE ACCOUNT, YOU WILL BE ENTITLED TO 25%
OF THE TOTAL SUM, 70% WILL BE FOR US WHILE 5% WILL BE
SET ASIDE FROM THE TOTAL SUM TO OFFSET ANY EXPENCES
THAT MAY BE INCURED BY EITHER PART DURING THE TRANSFER
PROCESS.

TO ENABLE US PUT CLAIMS WE REQUIRE THE FOLLOWING
INFORMATIONS:
(1) NAME TO BE USED AS THE BENEFICIARY, TELEPHONE AND
FAX NUMBER.
(2) A WRITTEN AND SIGNED LETTER OF GUARANTEE TO
CONFIRM TO US THAT THE SAID FUND IS SAFE WHEN
TRANSFERRED AND OUR SHARE SHALL BE GIVEN TO US
ACCORDINGLY AFTER THE SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THE
DEAL. WE INTEND TO USE PART OF OUR SHARE TO INVEST
INTO YOUR CORPORATION OR ANY BUSINESS THAT MAY BE
ADVISED BY YOU.    

CONTACT ME AS SOON AS POSSIBLE IF YOU ARE INTERESTED
AND BE INFORMED THAT CONFIDENTIALITY IS REQUIRED
BECAUSE WE ARE ACTIVE CIVIL SERVANTS AND DO NOT WANT
ANY SCANDAL. 

YOURS TRULY,


DR.  OSE EHI.   
    



__________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Thu Mar  8 06:05:23 2001
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From: "George E. Byrnes" <tbyrnes@iconn.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: No Mail
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 08:58:36 -0500
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Hi folks,
Is there a reason why I have not seen any mail in the last 3 or 4 days.
Thanks,
Tim Byrnes
tbyrnes@iconn.net

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From owner-glass Thu Mar  8 12:56:18 2001
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Looking for Philly artist
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:45:17 -0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk


Hi all,

I'm looking for an artist, located in Philadelphia, who runs a shop
called The House of Rats. This artist is said to do amazing things in
stained glass. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Pam

--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
SGA Executive Director
http://stainedglassartists.com


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From owner-glass Thu Mar  8 13:05:13 2001
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From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: SG Product Feedback Needed
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:51:50 -0800
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I recently recieved an email from Robin Schleien,  President of CWT
North America. She would like personal feedback on her product idea from
the glass community. If anyone is interested please email her personally
at: rschleien@carlson.com

Her email was as follows:

I recently found your site on the Net and have been trying to reach out
to
the Stained Glass community to gather some feedback.  I wonder if you
would be kind enough to give me
your opinion on a technical  innovation I am considering:

I have come across a platform of components that when assembled has the
capability of significantly speeding up several manual elements of
stained glass art creation.  At the
same time, precision is exceptional.  For example:

*       Scanners linked to CAD / CAM will digitize highly precise
patterns
and permit "nesting" (or the  placement of patterns) in any manner,
automatically or user defined on a
plate of glass - any size.  As such, the operator can posiiton a single
pattern over any section
of the glass and in  any direction desired to ensure that he/she
acquires exactly the piece
needed.

*       The CAD / CAM and PC software can fully automate resizing and
all
subsequent calculations

*       Wastage and breakage is veritably eliminated

*       The cutting technology is fully driven by the CAD / CAM system
and
is precise up to 5/1000". Again, there is no breakage or wastage
whatsoever and no grinding or sanding
is needed

My understanding from speaking with a number of professionals in the SG
field is that at least 50% of total effort in creating a piece of art is
spent in pattern creation,
marking, cutting and grinding.  This  does not include re-do's and
wastage.

It seems to me that if one could reduce much of the manual effort, the
result would be that the artist (and even
the the hobbyist) would realize several benefits:

*       He/she could concentrate more on the artisic elements, like
pattern
creation, color selection, assembly

*       He/she could create MORE final product at the same fee and make
a
good deal more profit (for those few of us interested in making money)

*       In fact, the cutting process I've described actually leaves NO
microchipping, so in fact, each piece of glass is actually stronger as
well

*       The detail that can be produced by assembling these components
is
spectacular

While the technology is cost-prohibitive for a single artist or studio,
it
could be offered in such a way as to make it very inexpensive through a
shared service with a nominal annual fee.

My sense is that technology can be brought to this beautiful field of
work
with significant benefits to artists and the technology provider.  All
of this would enhance, rather than reduce
quality to the end consumer without commoditizing the end product (i.e.
without driving down the selling fees /
price)

--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
SGA Executive Director
http://stainedglassartists.com


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From owner-glass Thu Mar  8 17:01:44 2001
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
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Subject: This n that
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 19:30:39 -0500
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I seem to be on an eagle kick lately.  I've just designed three new
ones....
I've been able to do some new designs from photos I've taken in the past
year.  For example, of an eagle at a raptor center that could not be
released because it was blind in one eye.
And a butterfly from a photo I took in the butterfly house in Hershy
Gardens PA this last summer.
Next pansies from a photo by a ferry dock.  Also have lily pond phots to
work with.
AND my pictures keep getting better!

Dorothy


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From owner-glass Thu Mar  8 20:04:50 2001
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: rschleien@carlson.com, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: cutting, et al
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:54:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

I just read your post to the Bungi Glass List, and must admit I'm
interested but sceptical.   Right now I am a hobbiest, but hope, in
another year, to be working full time in glass.  Still,  I cannot
imagine ever being able to afford something like that.  McGaw Studios,
maybe, but this would have to be beyond a small shop, right?

It also might not work for an "art" shop where a single piece is cut
from a much larger hunk - aligned just right for an artistic effect?
Rather, it would be for the mass production of lamps, or other works to
be sold in volume?

I'd not really regarded my desire to work with glass in a "Production
Lady" capacity.  However, you are correct in that there is a lot of time
and effort in the creation of a pattern, though not as much in the
sizing - Kinkos is my friend!  Actually, I usually design at full size,
and I suspect most designers do this too.  I then take the design and
have it reduced so I can scan it.

But cutting does eat time, although you might be amazed at how fast the
old pros do it - especially those who lead rather than foil.  The reason
for that is that the edges do not need to be as precise and finished as
they do with foil.  On the other hand the tolerance is less with lead,
and foilers can cover a multitude of sins with solder that leaders
cannot.

But you are describing a CAD program tweaked specifically for stained
glass (as per several PC programs now existing) - built in foil and
leading allowences, etc.  and probably with import of bevel templates,
frame/window templates in standard sizes, etc.?  And you are talking
about a large plotter sized printer - or automatic tiling (as per Mac)?
And add to that, once the pattern is placed, some kind of automatic
cutting?  Probably not laser (because of the heat), but perhaps water
carved?

I guess the part that is hard to imagine is how it can do just one piece
of a pattern from one spot on a piece of art glass, and another piece
quite separated from that on the same piece, and maybe several upside
down somewhere else?  Part of the "art" is in the placement on art
glass, no two pieces of which are alike.

If you were to attempt this using English muffle, or other glass with no
discernable pattern in color, you still have some grain that must be
taken into account.  And, of course, much glass is textured, and there
the grain is even more important in the placement of the pattern.  Or
you decide to change the colors, and some of what was originally to be
black has now become purple, and maybe another bit of what was to be
black would be a blue...

My feeling, interesting as this is, and I hope you tell us more, is that
you would need to be a production shop - a gazillion angels, candle
holders, picture frames, lamps, en mass, rather than a box here, a
mirror there, a picture frame or two, a wall panel, a window, a door
with sidelights, etc., especially where you are designing from scratch,
or even adapting designs for specific clients.

Cecily

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri Mar  9 06:02:12 2001
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From: Dina and Don Hess <ddhess@bellsouth.net>
To: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: cutting, et al
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 07:37:55 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Very well said, Cecily!

I share all those concerns.... and I have to admit, my initial reaction
was "but I don't make stained glass to be efficient."  Beyond the
practical implications, that is, I'm just not sure I'd *like* such a
device.  For me, it's comparable to gardening -- yes, I *could* grow a
lot more plants far more efficiently if I had a tractor, but I don't
grow them to be efficient, I grow them because I love the process --
somehow digging in the dirt with a trowel is far more satisfying to me
than cultivating a field, KWIM?  I think I'd feel the same way about
this device.  

I can see where it might be useful for a large-scale commercial shop,
though -- especially the kind that churn out those mass-produced lamps
sold at Home Depot, etc. 


Cecily & Ralph Wood wrote:
> 
> I just read your post to the Bungi Glass List, and must admit I'm
> interested but sceptical.   Right now I am a hobbiest, but hope, in
> another year, to be working full time in glass.  Still,  I cannot
> imagine ever being able to afford something like that.  McGaw Studios,
> maybe, but this would have to be beyond a small shop, right?
> 
> It also might not work for an "art" shop where a single piece is cut
> from a much larger hunk - aligned just right for an artistic effect?
> Rather, it would be for the mass production of lamps, or other works to
> be sold in volume?
> 
> I'd not really regarded my desire to work with glass in a "Production
> Lady" capacity.  However, you are correct in that there is a lot of time
> and effort in the creation of a pattern, though not as much in the
> sizing - Kinkos is my friend!  Actually, I usually design at full size,
> and I suspect most designers do this too.  I then take the design and
> have it reduced so I can scan it.
> 
> But cutting does eat time, although you might be amazed at how fast the
> old pros do it - especially those who lead rather than foil.  The reason
> for that is that the edges do not need to be as precise and finished as
> they do with foil.  On the other hand the tolerance is less with lead,
> and foilers can cover a multitude of sins with solder that leaders
> cannot.
> 
> But you are describing a CAD program tweaked specifically for stained
> glass (as per several PC programs now existing) - built in foil and
> leading allowences, etc.  and probably with import of bevel templates,
> frame/window templates in standard sizes, etc.?  And you are talking
> about a large plotter sized printer - or automatic tiling (as per Mac)?
> And add to that, once the pattern is placed, some kind of automatic
> cutting?  Probably not laser (because of the heat), but perhaps water
> carved?
> 
> I guess the part that is hard to imagine is how it can do just one piece
> of a pattern from one spot on a piece of art glass, and another piece
> quite separated from that on the same piece, and maybe several upside
> down somewhere else?  Part of the "art" is in the placement on art
> glass, no two pieces of which are alike.
> 
> If you were to attempt this using English muffle, or other glass with no
> discernable pattern in color, you still have some grain that must be
> taken into account.  And, of course, much glass is textured, and there
> the grain is even more important in the placement of the pattern.  Or
> you decide to change the colors, and some of what was originally to be
> black has now become purple, and maybe another bit of what was to be
> black would be a blue...
> 
> My feeling, interesting as this is, and I hope you tell us more, is that
> you would need to be a production shop - a gazillion angels, candle
> holders, picture frames, lamps, en mass, rather than a box here, a
> mirror there, a picture frame or two, a wall panel, a window, a door
> with sidelights, etc., especially where you are designing from scratch,
> or even adapting designs for specific clients.
> 
> Cecily
> 
> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Mar  9 15:23:43 2001
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From: Susana Gomez <sugole@yahoo.com>
To: stained glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: draw of a horse
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:16:36 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi to everybody from Mexico.

I want to make a mirror or window of the head of a
horse, 
Do someone can help me, because I have a draw from the
complete horse, but I only want the head.

Tks.

__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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From owner-glass Fri Mar  9 16:58:02 2001
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Wooden Shutter Frame
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:49:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everyone...

Has anyone ever seen Finished or Unfinished Wooden Interior Shutter
Frames that one could put stained glass inserts in?  I've just rented an
apartment and the "Best Windows" in the house are in the
bathroom....Which unfortunately faces a ton of windows in the next
apartment building :-(

I love the lovely light that just pours in these two windows........I
thought that shutters on the bottom half might be a great
idea........add another stained glass project for me to do.......I
couldn't be happier!

I'd appreciate any info you could pass on.........Thanks!

Lynda

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From owner-glass Fri Mar  9 17:29:04 2001
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From: "Maureen & David Humphreys" <searun@sprintmail.com>
To: "Susana Gomez" <sugole@yahoo.com>, "stained glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: draw of a horse
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:56:38 -0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,
I just bought a horse head done in bevels. It is 7 inches by 10 inches and
has 12 pieces. Horse faces right with ears, main, and nose 'bridle', product
number GST-13. It cost me retail $28.05 from Clines Glass in Portland, R. It
is made by CST Publication and here is the web e-mail:
gstpublications@sympatico.ca  (made in Canada) PO Box 54, Owen Sound,
Ontario, Canada N4K 5P1
There is a drawing in the box but it is on blue paper (go figure). Do you
wish me to try to scan it and send direct to your e-mail. Please reply ASAP
as I have to leave town shortly (like Sun). Maureen
-----Original Message-----
From: Susana Gomez <sugole@yahoo.com>
To: stained glass <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, March 09, 2001 3:18 PM
Subject: draw of a horse


>Hi to everybody from Mexico.
>
>I want to make a mirror or window of the head of a
>horse,
>Do someone can help me, because I have a draw from the
>complete horse, but I only want the head.
>
>Tks.
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sat Mar 10 01:30:42 2001
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Hi All,
My name is Ken. =A0 I've been lurking for a while to get the idea of how thi=
ngs=20
work. =A0 I've been doing glass for about seven years. =A0 I've done panels,=
 acid=20
etching and mosaic stones. =A0 I'm a hobbyist with hopes to put a building o=
n=20
my=20
property for a glass shop to teach classes and sell supplies. =A0 Something=20=
to=20
keep me off the streets when I retire. =A0 At present I'm looking for=20
information on repairing leaded windows. =A0 In book form or videos. =A0 Wou=
ld=20
appreciate any information,
Thanks,
Ken=A0=A0=20



--part1_a2.11337357.27db4bea_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2>Hi All,
<BR>My name is Ken. =A0 I've been lurking for a while to get the idea of how=
 things=20
<BR>work. =A0 I've been doing glass for about seven years. =A0 I've done pan=
els, acid=20
<BR>etching and mosaic stones. =A0 I'm a hobbyist with hopes to put a buildi=
ng on=20
<BR>my=20
<BR>property for a glass shop to teach classes and sell supplies. =A0 Someth=
ing to=20
<BR>keep me off the streets when I retire. =A0 At present I'm looking for=20
<BR>information on repairing leaded windows. =A0 In book form or videos.=20=
=A0 Would=20
<BR>appreciate any information,
<BR>Thanks,
<BR>Ken=A0=A0=20
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sat Mar 10 05:22:46 2001
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Ann Baxter <Awbaxter@aol.com>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: ACC show in St. Paul
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:07:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

Just got my copy of the March/April Glass Art, and on page 36/37 are
some photos of glass in the St Paul ACC show (April 6-8).  I know two of
the people were at the Baltimore ACC show and I'd be willing to be the
3rd person was, too.  Steven Lundberg, from Santa Cruz (love the
classical white vases, and not fond of the millefiore/flake ones).  Ann
Alderson Cabezas, from Mazamonie, WI, the "bowl" of leaves, where she
has blasted clear thru the space between the leaves.  The other person
is Robinson Scott of Anoka, MN with a really fine piece I'd love to
have. - Cec

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Sat Mar 10 06:31:14 2001
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From: Lynda Burleigh <bei@ime.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Earnhardt Pattern
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:07:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi......

Has anyone ever seen a stained glass pattern of Dale Earnhardt and/or
his car?

Sue

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From owner-glass Sat Mar 10 07:02:53 2001
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From: "Michele S" <mrsdesigns@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Re: Wooden Shutter Frame
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:59:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk


Hi Lynda~

I once had a shutter project to do and was at a loss for finding the shutter 
frames.  I eventually bought a couple of router bits and fashioned my own 
frames custom to the space I needed them!

Good luck!
~Michele


----Original Message Follows----
From: Lynda Burleigh <bei@ime.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Wooden Shutter Frame
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:49:57 -0500

Hi Everyone...

Has anyone ever seen Finished or Unfinished Wooden Interior Shutter
Frames that one could put stained glass inserts in?  I've just rented an
apartment and the "Best Windows" in the house are in the
bathroom....Which unfortunately faces a ton of windows in the next
apartment building :-(

I love the lovely light that just pours in these two windows........I
thought that shutters on the bottom half might be a great
idea........add another stained glass project for me to do.......I
couldn't be happier!

I'd appreciate any info you could pass on.........Thanks!

Lynda

----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Sat Mar 10 07:30:35 2001
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X-Path: home.com!kristc
From: "Kris" <kristc@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Wooden Shutter Frame
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:18:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I bought cabinet doors at Home Depot once, the kind that have glass inserts
but I special ordered them without the inserts. That probably isn't the
cheapest way to go but it worked out fine for a similar project.
Kris

>
> Hi Lynda~
>
> I once had a shutter project to do and was at a loss for finding the
shutter
> frames.  I eventually bought a couple of router bits and fashioned my own
> frames custom to the space I needed them!
>
> Good luck!
> ~Michele
 >
> Has anyone ever seen Finished or Unfinished Wooden Interior Shutter
> Frames that one could put stained glass inserts in?  I've just rented an
> apartment and the "Best Windows" in the house are in the
> bathroom....Which unfortunately faces a ton of windows in the next
> apartment building :-(
>
> I love the lovely light that just pours in these two windows........I
> thought that shutters on the bottom half might be a great
> idea........add another stained glass project for me to do.......I
> couldn't be happier!
>
> I'd appreciate any info you could pass on.........Thanks!
>
> Lynda


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From owner-glass Sat Mar 10 09:06:39 2001
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From: Awbaxter@aol.com
To: bei@ime.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Wooden Shutter Frame
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:03:32 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I haven't looked for them for a while so I don't know of their current 
availability, but years ago I bought stock shutters made for fabric inserts.  
I just removed the little spring rod at the top and bottom that would have 
held the gathered fabric panels, and found enough of a rabbetted (sp?) edge 
to hold glass panels securely in place with narrow wood moldings or clips.  
For all I know, they are still hanging in someone's breakfast nook... 
(blocking a view of a dark brick wall)...
Ann
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From owner-glass Sat Mar 10 23:27:37 2001
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X-Path: hotmail.com!susan9977
From: "Susan Dale" <susan9977@hotmail.com>
To: ptap@pacifier.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: 3D CAD CAM FOR STAINED GLASS, HOT GLASS
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:02:31 -0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@hotmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Pam,

I am 'pasting' a message from Heath Satow who designs and animates 3D CAD 
CAM Software from Rhino, and Flamingo.  Both have evaluation copies that may 
be downloaded, the sites are on the link. Water jet cutting of glass is the 
preferred method as the 'reflection' in some glasses messes up the lasar 
cutting method, just a 'reflective' surface metal as gold, silver, some 
copper, polished stainless steel (example shown).

I may lose temporarily my existing internet link, as I must move my 
furniture and computer again. I am sending this from my temporary hotmail 
accounts.

Lee Boe

Triple Wow, Heath, the shadow is even true.  Guess what I'm going to play
with if I loose my internet access for a while?????

Thanks a bunch guys and gals, you give me the courage to go on, if only for
a while yet.

Lee (Lady Lee)

PS.  Susan Dale is a 'stage name' from a Hollywood beginning long long ago
in a place far far away now.



   From: "Heath Satow" <heath@publicsculpture.com>
Reply-To: artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu
To: <artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: work in process.
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:50:10 -0500


>This 420 pound  piece will be mounted on an apex and will stand about 11' 
>tall. Its unveiling will be at a show in OKC on April 21. john

Hey John, I just unveiled it for you:

http://www.mindspring.com/~satow/simmscube/

;)
________________________________
Heath Satow

http://www.publicsculpture.com

Design, fabrication and installation
of sculpture and architectural elements
in metals and other materials.


>From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
>To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
>Subject: SG Product Feedback Needed
>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:51:50 -0800
>
>
>I recently recieved an email from Robin Schleien,  President of CWT
>North America. She would like personal feedback on her product idea from
>the glass community. If anyone is interested please email her personally
>at: rschleien@carlson.com
>
>Her email was as follows:
>
>I recently found your site on the Net and have been trying to reach out
>to
>the Stained Glass community to gather some feedback.  I wonder if you
>would be kind enough to give me
>your opinion on a technical  innovation I am considering:
>
>I have come across a platform of components that when assembled has the
>capability of significantly speeding up several manual elements of
>stained glass art creation.  At the
>same time, precision is exceptional.  For example:
>
>*       Scanners linked to CAD / CAM will digitize highly precise
>patterns
>and permit "nesting" (or the  placement of patterns) in any manner,
>automatically or user defined on a
>plate of glass - any size.  As such, the operator can posiiton a single
>pattern over any section
>of the glass and in  any direction desired to ensure that he/she
>acquires exactly the piece
>needed.
>
>*       The CAD / CAM and PC software can fully automate resizing and
>all
>subsequent calculations
>
>*       Wastage and breakage is veritably eliminated
>
>*       The cutting technology is fully driven by the CAD / CAM system
>and
>is precise up to 5/1000". Again, there is no breakage or wastage
>whatsoever and no grinding or sanding
>is needed
>
>My understanding from speaking with a number of professionals in the SG
>field is that at least 50% of total effort in creating a piece of art is
>spent in pattern creation,
>marking, cutting and grinding.  This  does not include re-do's and
>wastage.
>
>It seems to me that if one could reduce much of the manual effort, the
>result would be that the artist (and even
>the the hobbyist) would realize several benefits:
>
>*       He/she could concentrate more on the artisic elements, like
>pattern
>creation, color selection, assembly
>
>*       He/she could create MORE final product at the same fee and make
>a
>good deal more profit (for those few of us interested in making money)
>
>*       In fact, the cutting process I've described actually leaves NO
>microchipping, so in fact, each piece of glass is actually stronger as
>well
>
>*       The detail that can be produced by assembling these components
>is
>spectacular
>
>While the technology is cost-prohibitive for a single artist or studio,
>it
>could be offered in such a way as to make it very inexpensive through a
>shared service with a nominal annual fee.
>
>My sense is that technology can be brought to this beautiful field of
>work
>with significant benefits to artists and the technology provider.  All
>of this would enhance, rather than reduce
>quality to the end consumer without commoditizing the end product (i.e.
>without driving down the selling fees /
>price)
>
>--
>
>Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
>SGA Executive Director
>http://stainedglassartists.com
>
>
>----
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From owner-glass Sun Mar 11 09:46:59 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!ARTIZ01
From: ARTIZ01@aol.com
To: AGue111@aol.com, EMBRY11@aol.com, glass@bungi.com, tmarac2000@yahoo.com,
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_c9.def9c49.27dd0fba_boundary"
Subject: Fwd: The 7-ups
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:28:26 EST
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Return-path: <Booklag@aol.com>
From: Booklag@aol.com
Full-name: Booklag
Message-ID: <15.10e9cb03.27db3d6f@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 03:18:55 EST
Subject: The 7-ups
To: Booklag@aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 130

The 7-Ups

1 . Wake Up - Decide to have a good day. "Today is the day the Lord hath
made; let us rejoice & be glad in it" Psalms 118:24

2 . Dress Up - The best way to dress up is to put on a smile. A smile is
an inexpensive way to improve your looks. "The Lord does not look at the
things man looks at. Man looks at outward appearance but the Lord looks
at the heart" I Sam 16:7

3 . Shut Up - Say nice things & learn to listen. God gave us 2 ears and
1 mouth so He must have meant for us to do twice as much listening as
talking. "He who guards his lips guards his soul" Proverbs 13:3 "Gossip
betrays confidence avoid men who talk too much" Proverbs 20:19 "Listen
to advice, accept instruction and in the end, you will be wise" Proverbs
19:20

4 . Stand Up - For what you believe in. Stand for something or you will
fall for anything. "Let us not be weary in doing good; for at the proper
time, we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have
opportunity, let us do good..." Galatians 6:9-10

5 . Look Up - To the Lord. "I can do everything through Him who gives me
strength" Philippians 4:13

6 . Reach Up - For something higher. As Jiminy Cricket sings "High
Hopes" Always try to better yourself. Have FAITH. "Now faith is being
sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Hebrews
11:1

7 . Lift Up - Your Prayers. "Do not worry about anything; instead PRAY
ABOUT EVERYTHING" Philippians 4:6

Author Unknown

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From owner-glass Sun Mar 11 11:14:04 2001
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I hate spam. I don't care if it's the bible thumpers or the porno people.  
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From owner-glass Sun Mar 11 12:01:48 2001
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From: irwin.judson@ns.sympatico.ca (Irwin Judson)
To: <ARTIZ01@aol.com>,
Subject: Re: The 7-ups
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:47:31 -0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@ns.sympatico.ca>
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Please keep this stuff out of my mailbox.  It falls into the same category
as pornography...victimizing people for money and gratification.
Irwin Judson
----- Original Message -----
From: <ARTIZ01@aol.com>
To: <AGue111@aol.com>; <EMBRY11@aol.com>; <glass@bungi.com>;
<tmarac2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 9:28 AM
Subject: Fwd: The 7-ups


>
>


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From owner-glass Sun Mar 11 13:47:46 2001
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: National Cathedral (Washington DC)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 16:33:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

If you can get your hands on the spring SGAA quarterly, Stained Glass,
read the article on Angus's Ashes.  We are going down there for a
concert next Sunday, and I know I'll never walk in that building again
without thinking of this article and the Lazurus windows.

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Sun Mar 11 14:30:32 2001
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To: "glasshelp" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: unsubscribe...
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 16:20:51 -0600
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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please unsubscribe for now... thank you....

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From owner-glass Sun Mar 11 14:47:58 2001
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X-Path: financier.com!mgpuplishing
From: "Les Éditions M.G. Publishing"<mgpuplishing@financier.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Subsidies, Grants, Loans, Financing
Date: 11 Mar 2001 17:04:49 -0500
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MG PUBLISHING
4865 HWY 138,R.R 1
ST-ANDREWS WEST 
ONTARIO, KOC 2A0
1-800-301-8093
http://www.mgpublishing.net


PRESS RELEASE

CANADIAN SUBSIDY DIRECTORY YEAR 2001 EDITION
Legal Deposit-National Library of Canada
ISBN 2-922870-01-04

M.G. Publishing is offering to the public a revised edition of the 
Canadian Subsidy Directory, a guide containing more than 2300 direct and 
indirect financial subsidies, grants and loans offered by government 
departments and agencies, foundations, associations and organizations.  In 
this new 2001 edition all programs are well described.
The Canadian Subsidy Directory is the most comprehensive tool to start up 
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new talents.
Assistance from and for foundations and associations, guidance to prepare 
a business plan, market surveys, computers, and much more!
To obtain the Canadian Subsidy Directory call 1-800-301-8093.

Consult our web site at: http:// www.mgpublishing.net

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From owner-glass Sun Mar 11 15:49:16 2001
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>,glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: National Cathedral (Washington DC)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:01:46 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010311180145.009abd50@pop.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk

while you're down there, ask about the stained glass tours. i took the tour
some years ago, and it includes the small windows in areas that are usually
off limits to the public. 
Dee 
04:33 PM 3/11/01 -0500, you wrote:
>If you can get your hands on the spring SGAA quarterly, Stained Glass,
>read the article on Angus's Ashes.  We are going down there for a
>concert next Sunday, and I know I'll never walk in that building again
>without thinking of this article and the Lazurus windows.
>
>--
>*********************************************************************
>*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
>*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
>*********************************************************************
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Sun Mar 11 18:01:55 2001
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From: postmaster
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: InterScan NT Alert
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:53:15 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
Message-ID: <m14cHVK-0000QJC@daver.bungi.com>
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Receiver, InterScan has detected virus(es) in the e-mail attachment.

Date:  	Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:53:15 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
Method:	Mail
From:  	<>
To:    	<glass@bungi.com>
File:  	midgets.scr
Action:	clean failed - deleted
Virus: 	TROJ_HYBRIS.B 
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From owner-glass Sun Mar 11 19:25:08 2001
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Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:54:42 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
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Receiver, InterScan has detected virus(es) in the e-mail attachment.

Date:  	Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:54:42 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
Method:	Mail
From:  	<>
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File:  	midgets.scr
Action:	clean failed - deleted
Virus: 	TROJ_HYBRIS.B 
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From owner-glass Sun Mar 11 20:56:52 2001
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From: "Gay E Morrelli" <g.morrelli@worldnet.att.net>
To: <postmaster@daver.bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: InterScan NT Alert
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 21:19:16 -0600
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: <postmaster@daver.bungi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 7:53 PM
Subject: InterScan NT Alert


> Receiver, InterScan has detected virus(es) in the e-mail attachment.
> 
> Date:  Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:53:15 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
> Method: Mail
> From:  <>
> To:    <glass@bungi.com>
> File:  midgets.scr
> Action: clean failed - deleted
> Virus: TROJ_HYBRIS.B 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> 

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From owner-glass Mon Mar 12 01:51:45 2001
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X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio
From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Snow White trojan horse - thanks!
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:20:15 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stainedglass.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Just a thank you to Dave (I assume) at bungi for deleting those dangerous
attachments from the Snow White messages for us!
Until ALL emailers get their computers scanned and cleaned this wont go away
so we should all be vigilant.  My heart sank when I saw the message titles
but I was relieved to find no virus midget/joke/sexyvirgin/etc attachments
that I had to find and delete!!
I still have one computer unusable for internet work due to this 'joke'
someone with a warped sense of humour has let loose on the web!

EliZabeth in Bournemouth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
UK Charter Member RAGS

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From owner-glass Mon Mar 12 19:53:56 2001
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.com>
To: <postmaster@daver.bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: InterScan NT Alert
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:45:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<m14cHVK-0000QJC@daver.bungi.com>>
Precedence: bulk

this is cute, but why would the virus program be sending the info back out
to the list?


---Mike Savad


---
Mike's Stained Glass - http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/
Contains a wealth of stained glass information, stained glass tips, stained
glass instruction, and many, many stained glass links.
---
11-7-00 - New Stuff Added: How to solder a nice bead, and several new
projects. You can now search my site with a built in engine.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: postmaster@daver.bungi.com [mailto:postmaster@daver.bungi.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 8:53 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: InterScan NT Alert
>
>
> Receiver, InterScan has detected virus(es) in the e-mail attachment.
>
> Date:  	Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:53:15 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
> Method:	Mail
> From:  	<>
> To:    	<glass@bungi.com>
> File:  	midgets.scr
> Action:	clean failed - deleted
> Virus: 	TROJ_HYBRIS.B
> ----
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>

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From owner-glass Mon Mar 12 21:24:24 2001
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: InterScan NT Alert
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:04:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

I don't think it did - what it did was somehow automatically make it end up in
your trash - or at least in mine, and in an unread state. - Cec

Mike Savad wrote:

> this is cute, but why would the virus program be sending the info back out
> to the list?
>
> ---Mike Savad
>
> ---
> Mike's Stained Glass - http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/
> Contains a wealth of stained glass information, stained glass tips, stained
> glass instruction, and many, many stained glass links.
> ---
> 11-7-00 - New Stuff Added: How to solder a nice bead, and several new
> projects. You can now search my site with a built in engine.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: postmaster@daver.bungi.com [mailto:postmaster@daver.bungi.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 8:53 PM
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: InterScan NT Alert
> >
> >
> > Receiver, InterScan has detected virus(es) in the e-mail attachment.
> >
> > Date:         Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:53:15 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
> > Method:       Mail
> > From:         <>
> > To:           <glass@bungi.com>
> > File:         midgets.scr
> > Action:       clean failed - deleted
> > Virus:        TROJ_HYBRIS.B
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Tue Mar 13 10:54:32 2001
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From: "bird_cage" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: test
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:47:57 -0800
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From owner-glass Wed Mar 14 05:31:00 2001
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X-Path: earthlink.net!glasscutter
From: Gerry Phibbs <glasscutter@earthlink.net>
To: bungi glasss discussion list <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: The Carol Duvall Show Opportunity
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 04:37:50 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@earthlink.net>
Organization: International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

For members of the bungi.com glass discussion list,
and fellow glass artists & craftspeople:

  I received the following invitation, and have agreed to forward this
inquiry to some of my contacts in the glass and crafting worlds.
  Please note that this inquiry is geographically specific, only for
crafters in the general Los Angeles California area, at least for now
  I've also agreed to compile and forward such responses as I may
get to Ms. Hall for her consideration, so if you're interested, please
post a relatively brief response, and I'll forward that on as quickly
as possible.
  Please DO NOT post personal information, such as home addresses,
home telephone numbers, in any "public" messages, for obvious
reasons - your email address should be sufficient for this initial
contact.
  Peace  -Gerry Phibbs, International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.

---

Hello,
  My name is Allison Hall. I am a segment producer for a show on HGTV
called  The Carol Duvall Show. I am currently researching possible
field pieces on artists and craftspeople *ONLY* in the Los Angeles
area.  Might you be interested in being featured in an upcoming
segment?  The Carol Duvall Show is a crafting show, but we highlight
artists in their studios for field pieces.  Please indicate your
chosen media, the nature of your work, the location of your studio
and your email address, so that I may contact you directly. Also,
please note, this does not guarantee that we will shoot your segment.
  I am only in the initial research phase. I have to pitch ideas to
the field & supervising producer, the host, and the network.

Thank you.

Allison Hall
The Carol Duvall Show


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From owner-glass Wed Mar 14 18:06:19 2001
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #529 built 2001-Feb-6)
X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Gerry Phibbs <glasscutter@earthlink.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: The Carol Duvall Show Opportunity
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:49:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@earthlink.net>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

The Carol Duvall Show is a very nice, low key show in which Carol Duvall
learns, along with the audience, how something is done.  She comes across
as intelligent, interested, and genuine.  I remember her from her Grand
Rapids, MI days a long time ago (WOOD-TV?).  It is broadcast nationally,
because I've seen it here in Baltimore.  If you have a chance to be on it
- go for it, but you've gotta be a good presenter. - Cec

Gerry Phibbs wrote:

> For members of the bungi.com glass discussion list,
> and fellow glass artists & craftspeople:
>
>   I received the following invitation, and have agreed to forward this
> inquiry to some of my contacts in the glass and crafting worlds.
>   Please note that this inquiry is geographically specific, only for
> crafters in the general Los Angeles California area, at least for now
>   I've also agreed to compile and forward such responses as I may
> get to Ms. Hall for her consideration, so if you're interested, please
> post a relatively brief response, and I'll forward that on as quickly
> as possible.
>   Please DO NOT post personal information, such as home addresses,
> home telephone numbers, in any "public" messages, for obvious
> reasons - your email address should be sufficient for this initial
> contact.
>   Peace  -Gerry Phibbs, International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
>
> ---
>
> Hello,
>   My name is Allison Hall. I am a segment producer for a show on HGTV
> called  The Carol Duvall Show. I am currently researching possible
> field pieces on artists and craftspeople *ONLY* in the Los Angeles
> area.  Might you be interested in being featured in an upcoming
> segment?  The Carol Duvall Show is a crafting show, but we highlight
> artists in their studios for field pieces.  Please indicate your
> chosen media, the nature of your work, the location of your studio
> and your email address, so that I may contact you directly. Also,
> please note, this does not guarantee that we will shoot your segment.
>   I am only in the initial research phase. I have to pitch ideas to
> the field & supervising producer, the host, and the network.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Allison Hall
> The Carol Duvall Show
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Wed Mar 14 20:50:52 2001
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From: Grant Schultz <Fortschultz@centurytel.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: tips on working large..
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:36:28 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@centurytel.net>
Organization: Sentury Insurance
Precedence: bulk

Hello to all,
I have my first official comissioned piece. Well that is some one who
wants a glass piece and is not family! It will be a foiled piece that
measures 35" x 15" and will hang in a kitchen window horizontially. Do I
need to put rebar down the center? or horizontally-across? I will use
the copper reinforcement strips throughout it and planned on framing in
zinc. I have only just completed a large piece of similar size just not
as wide.
Any comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I also am
going to charge them $300.00 Was that a good price to sell it for?
Thanks
Christy

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From owner-glass Thu Mar 15 03:13:05 2001
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From: Gerry Phibbs <glasscutter@earthlink.net>
To: Grant Schultz <Fortschultz@centurytel.net>
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Subject: Re: tips on working large..
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:48:54 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@earthlink.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@centurytel.net>>
Organization: International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Hi Christy,
  First off, I'd say that yes.. you'll need some reinforcement on that
panel.  You don't necessarily have to use rebar to get decent
reinforcement.  If this piece is going to have a decent structurally
sound frame around it, you can get away with less reinforcement, but if
you're trying to do this panel without a frame, you'll need even more
reinforcement.
  Rebar works fine for straight lines, and even with angled joints, but
often in foiled work, it can detract from the visual of the finished
panel.  There are other forms of reinforcement, including the "restrip"
which is a copper mesh braid soldered in between the foiled pieces.  I
personally don't much care for it, but there are those that swear by it.

  Personally, I use large gauge solid copper wire, #10 or #8 works fine
for similar sized panels, you can also consider using 3/16" or even 1/4"
copper tubing, if you want to try that, both are readily available at
your local independent hardware store.
  The basic idea is to solder the wire or tubing directly to the
backside foiled seams, and to bend the wire or tubing to suit and follow
the lines as best you can.  I also try to put a fairly decent bead on
the wire or the tubing, creating a "fillet" to the foil joint with the
solder, which greatly improves the strength.
  For a rectangular panel (sans frame), I'd consider using zinc came on
the edges, either zinc U edge came (you can insert heavy steel wire or
solid steel rod or square stock inside the formed cavity in the back of
the U zinc for added strength, or even H zinc came, with copper tubing
or really heavy copper wire soldered into the open side of the H.  This
zinc should give you a fairly strong edge framework for the panel.  I'd
also solder on some small right triangle shaped pieces of either copper
or brass (preferably) at all four corners, and on both sides, to
reinforce the corners of this framework, it's going to be relatively
heavy.
  The panel itself, should have at least two vertical reinforcements,
each spaced about 1/3rd of the width of the panel, more if you think it
appropriate, and if you can reasonably work it into the design.  I'd
also consider at least one horizontal reinforcement, running about
halfway up the height of the panel, that was tied in to both vertical
members.  All of the reinforcements will need to be carried to the
outside zinc edge, and soldered directly to it, thus tying the entire
panel together, and taking some of the load to the surrounding support
edges.  The reinforcement is not just about the vertical load of
gravity, but will also help reduce the "flex" of the finished panel.
You can mix and match the type and style of the reinforcement to suit
yourself, the vertical could be a bit thinner than the horizontal, as
the horizontal will be the longer piece, and will do more to maintain
the panel in a flat orientation.
  As for your price.. well, lessee here.. it looks like you're working
at about $82 per square foot.  That's a bit underpriced in my opinion.
When you consider the costs of your materials, the amount of time you
invest in the panel, your "overhead", and the "profit margin" which is
your due as a business person, I'd suggest you were working fairly
cheap.  'Course, I've done exactly the same thing, many years ago when I
was first starting to charge for my work.  If you keep fairly accurate
track of the time you put into this panel (your design time counts too),
and the costs of your materials, when it's all said and done, you may
find that you're working for about $1.25/hr. possibly a good bit less.
(grin)  'Course you're doing something you love to do, and you gotta
"art" to get the experience and the practice, and to keep your personal
growth in glass going.
  After a while, you'll be in a better position to determine the real
costs, and adjust your pricing accordingly.  It's sorta like an old
saying I once heard while watching a blacksmith doing a demonstration..
he said.. "there are only two big and terrible mistakes in
blacksmithing.. striking when the iron isn't hot enough, and never
charging enough for your work."
  Good luck with your first commission.. you'll remember this panel for
a very long time.
  Peace  -Gerry Phibbs, IGGA

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From owner-glass Thu Mar 15 16:28:55 2001
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
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Subject: Glass Mosaics
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:08:00 -0500
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Those of you interested in doing mosaics might find in interesting to
look at the latest issue of The Score at Spectrum
(www.spectrumglass.com).  You'll want to look at issue 74.

This leads to David Ward's site (www.wardmosaic.com) with some
interesting pictures.  Lots of work in those mosaics!

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Thu Mar 15 23:01:01 2001
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Subject: flux neutralizer
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:47:51 EST
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Hi Bungians!

Does anyone out there have a "home brew" formula for neutralizing flux?

Mike in Spokane

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Hi Bungians!
<BR>
<BR>Does anyone out there have a "home brew" formula for neutralizing flux?
<BR>
<BR>Mike in Spokane</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Mar 16 05:46:05 2001
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From: "Gregg Wood" <gwood@one.net>
To: "Glass @ Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: flux neutralizer
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:28:45 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

A little baking soda and a small amount of
dish washing liquid in some water.


> Hi Bungians!
> 
> Does anyone out there have a "home brew" formula for neutralizing flux?
> 
> Mike in Spokane
> 

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From owner-glass Fri Mar 16 06:30:25 2001
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Subject: RE: Flux Neutralizer
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:25:15 -0500
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Hi Mike,
I have found that a lemon-based dish soap works really well on my
"No-Corode" paste flux. The dish soap has to have "real" lemon juice in it,
though. For my gel flux, I just use non-ammonia glass cleaner.
Sarah
May your day be as beautiful as you are...!

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From owner-glass Fri Mar 16 09:11:33 2001
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From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: wire guage sizes
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:19:17 -0500
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Gerry's post about using heavy copper wire to reinforce made me realize
once again that I'm pretty vague about the exact sizes of wire.  I need a
visual to help me remember, or maybe even tack up in the studio.
Something like different size dots that correspond to the diameters of
the wire with the  guage underneath the dots would help immensly.  

Anybody know of a website or source that could easily be copied?

Peggy 
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Subject: Re: wire guage sizes
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:50:57 -0500
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------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01C0AE17.BEFCE720
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Here is a quick PDF I made with wire sizes from 10 to
30 gauge and an example dot for each.

-G

> Gerry's post about using heavy copper wire to reinforce made me realize
> once again that I'm pretty vague about the exact sizes of wire.  I need a
> visual to help me remember, or maybe even tack up in the studio.
> Something like different size dots that correspond to the diameters of
> the wire with the  guage underneath the dots would help immensly.  
> 
> Anybody know of a website or source that could easily be copied?
> 
> Peggy 


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From: "CP" <mschatee@twcny.rr.com>
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Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Re: flux neutralizer
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:50:24 -0500
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I was taught to use dish soap on a wet sponge with a little baking soda =
sprinkled on.  I never had any problems with anything oxidizing so I =
guess it works.  That's how I clean all my projects.



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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was taught to use dish soap on a wet =
sponge with=20
a little baking soda sprinkled on.&nbsp; I never had any problems with =
anything=20
oxidizing so I guess it works.&nbsp; That's how I clean all my=20
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From owner-glass Fri Mar 16 15:08:53 2001
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From: Bob Collins <rcollins1@mindspring.com>
To: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: wire guage sizes
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:44:59 -0700
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@juno.com>>
Organization: CSC, Inc.
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Peggy,
    You can buy short lengths of Romex wire at any hardware store. This
usually has 3 wires of the same guage in a jacket (the covering).  It comes
in all different sizes 8 guage, larger than 10 guage, 10 guage larger than
12, 12 guage larger than 14, etc. What I'd do is strip about 4 to 6 inches
off one end and then write the guage size in ink, usually the jacket  will
have the size already imprinted on it. Then hang it or staple it to your area
that you intended as a display.

    Bob

Peggy L Kinnetz wrote:

> Gerry's post about using heavy copper wire to reinforce made me realize
> once again that I'm pretty vague about the exact sizes of wire.  I need a
> visual to help me remember, or maybe even tack up in the studio.
> Something like different size dots that correspond to the diameters of
> the wire with the  guage underneath the dots would help immensly.
>
> Anybody know of a website or source that could easily be copied?
>
> Peggy
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From owner-glass Fri Mar 16 16:46:49 2001
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From: Southern Exposure <shodge@gdi.net>
To: FuchsiaFan@aol.com
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Subject: Re: flux neutralizer
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 19:33:59 -0500
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FuchsiaFan@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Bungians!
> 
> Does anyone out there have a "home brew" formula for neutralizing
> flux?
> 
> Mike in Spokane
AS of Late I have been haveing serious trouble getting flux remover from
my wholesaler. So I have done some searching and came up with Green
Polmolive "Original" Works Great. Save your money

Skip
Southern Exposure Stained Glass Supply, Inc.
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From owner-glass Sat Mar 17 06:02:22 2001
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From: Gillian Higson <tandg.higson@sympatico.ca>
To: FuchsiaFan@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 09:03:33 -0600
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--------------0D4C78A6F7C55B5C675DCF8A
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Mike
I often use dish soap and baking soda  in a sink of warm water.  The
only thing is, the solder dulls .  But it does polish up well .  I use
about 3tbsp. baking soda , a squirt of dish soap to about 4 litres of
warm water.
Regards
Gillian

FuchsiaFan@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Bungians!
>
> Does anyone out there have a "home brew" formula for neutralizing
> flux?
>
> Mike in Spokane

--------------0D4C78A6F7C55B5C675DCF8A
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Hi Mike
<br>I often use dish soap and baking soda&nbsp; in a sink of warm water.&nbsp;
The only thing is, the solder dulls .&nbsp; But it does polish up well
.&nbsp; I use about 3tbsp. baking soda , a squirt of dish soap to about
4 litres of warm water.
<br>Regards
<br>Gillian
<p>FuchsiaFan@aol.com wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Hi Bungians!</font></font>
<p><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Does anyone out there have
a "home brew" formula for neutralizing flux?</font></font>
<p><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Mike in Spokane</font></font></blockquote>
</html>

--------------0D4C78A6F7C55B5C675DCF8A--

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From owner-glass Sat Mar 17 08:32:02 2001
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From: Jon & Tryna <logon@voyageur.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Sea horse pattern
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:19:23 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@voyageur.ca>
Precedence: bulk

Hello to all,

   I am looking for a pattern for a seahorse, I would like to make a 
stepping stone and sun catcher.
   I have been everywhere looking for even a half decent picture of a 
seahorse, encyclopedia, dictionary, on the internet, through glass books 
and I have found nothing.
   I don't know if they are just few and far between, they are very 
unique creatures and to find very nice patterns for them seems almost 
impossible.

   If anyone could help, I would greatly appreciate it.
   I look forward to your response.

   Tryna

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From owner-glass Sat Mar 17 10:03:08 2001
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Sea horse pattern
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 17:26:43 +0000
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At 10:19 17/03/01 -0600, Tryna wrote:
>Hello to all,
>
>   I am looking for a pattern for a seahorse, 

Take a look at the two patterns in Carolyn Relei's book 'MarineAnimals'.  A
Dover publication available at most stained glass retailers (I imagine) as
it has some really good patterns including one full seahorse and a more
detailed seahorse head.

Regards
EliZabeth in Bournemouth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
UK Charter Member RAGS

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From owner-glass Sat Mar 17 13:04:33 2001
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Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:41:40 -0800
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My officerjqg@go.com does not work.  The server sucks and I cant get my =
mail half the time.  I just got the new cool DSL service which came with =
an address so from now on I would like my mail sent to =
officerjqg@centurytel.net

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>My <A=20
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server sucks and I cant get my mail half the time.&nbsp; I just got the =
new cool=20
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From owner-glass Sat Mar 17 15:05:43 2001
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The IGGA has received the following request:

"Am looking for a glass coffee table resting on a metal base. Will =
appreciate=20
contacts or references in the Cleveland area."

If you can help this person, please contact RK at ramikibbutz@cs.com

Thanks.


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From owner-glass Sat Mar 17 20:07:05 2001
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From: Jon & Tryna <logon@voyageur.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Subject: Desperately seeking...
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 21:49:49 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@voyageur.ca>
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     I am desperately looking for some patterns of sea horses, if anyone 
has any available would you please send me a picture of work you have 
already done or a pattern that you have.  I would greatly appreciate all 
the help.  I have looked high and low through every available avenue 
have have still fallen short.  So anything would be wonderful.  I thank 
you in advance.

Sincerely,
             Tryna

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From owner-glass Sun Mar 18 04:33:03 2001
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From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Flux Neutralizer
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 07:01:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@bright.net>
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The dish soap I use for the Nokorode is good old "JOY", it has real lemon
juice in it. Also, Nokorode does make a water-soluble paste flux, if you can
find it. I've not used it yet, and would be interested to hear any comments
on how well it works. Is it comparable to the regular Nokorode?
Sarah
May your day be as beautiful as you are...!

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From owner-glass Sun Mar 18 14:31:28 2001
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From: Gillian Higson <tandg.higson@sympatico.ca>
To: Jon & Tryna <logon@voyageur.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Sea horse pattern
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 17:42:40 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@sympatico.ca>
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Hi Tryna
 there is a seahorse pattern in one of the Glassmith Studio books. Its in A
Break In Time.  If you don't have it email offlist and I'll send it to you
Regards
Gillian

Jon & Tryna wrote:

> Hello to all,
>
>    I am looking for a pattern for a seahorse, I would like to make a
> stepping stone and sun catcher.
>    I have been everywhere looking for even a half decent picture of a
> seahorse, encyclopedia, dictionary, on the internet, through glass books
> and I have found nothing.
>    I don't know if they are just few and far between, they are very
> unique creatures and to find very nice patterns for them seems almost
> impossible.
>
>    If anyone could help, I would greatly appreciate it.
>    I look forward to your response.
>
>    Tryna
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sun Mar 18 15:00:30 2001
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Sea horse patterns
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 16:47:03 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
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http://www.warner-criv.com/search/pat_search.asp?mscssid=&ct=wc_patterns&q1=sea+horse
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From owner-glass Sun Mar 18 20:31:33 2001
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Subject: Sandblasting equipment
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:24:23 -0500
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Can anyone offer suggestions regarding a good source of sandblasting
equipment for glass work?   Thanks  Herb

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From owner-glass Mon Mar 19 17:25:50 2001
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: Mounting collar request...
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:47:07 -0500
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The IGGA has received the following request for information.  If you can
help this person, please contact him at gmiller@lightspeed.ca

Thanks.

----------------------

Hello,
    I have been searching for a manufacturer of a clip on type, mounting
collar, to display a panel in front of a night light. Any help on this one
would be greatly appreciated. Thanks...
Greg Miller,
gmiller@lightspeed.ca

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From owner-glass Mon Mar 19 19:50:11 2001
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X-Path: mindspring.com!glassgirl
From: "cheryl zipf" <glassgirl@mindspring.com>
To: "Jon & Tryna" <logon@voyageur.ca>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Sea horse pattern
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:24:45 -0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@mindspring.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@voyageur.ca>>
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tryna  check your local scuba dive shop they have lots of pictures in
magazines  of them in bonair or aruba under the sea but you should be able
to copy one
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon & Tryna" <logon@voyageur.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 8:19 AM
Subject: Sea horse pattern


> Hello to all,
>
>    I am looking for a pattern for a seahorse, I would like to make a
> stepping stone and sun catcher.
>    I have been everywhere looking for even a half decent picture of a
> seahorse, encyclopedia, dictionary, on the internet, through glass books
> and I have found nothing.
>    I don't know if they are just few and far between, they are very
> unique creatures and to find very nice patterns for them seems almost
> impossible.
>
>    If anyone could help, I would greatly appreciate it.
>    I look forward to your response.
>
>    Tryna
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Tue Mar 20 06:56:08 2001
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie.Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie.Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: FW: Sea horse pattern
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:23:36 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@stratus.com>
Precedence: bulk

a good place would be marine fish stores. there's lots of books describing
them, and there would be pictures to go along with them.

then again, a simple search at http://alltheweb.com shows a good picture on
the home page of http://www.seahorses.de/


regards,
charlie
phx, az

-----Original Message-----
From: cheryl zipf [mailto:glassgirl@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 11:25 PM
To: Jon & Tryna; glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Sea horse pattern


tryna  check your local scuba dive shop they have lots of pictures in
magazines  of them in bonair or aruba under the sea but you should be able
to copy one
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon & Tryna" <logon@voyageur.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 8:19 AM
Subject: Sea horse pattern


> Hello to all,
>
>    I am looking for a pattern for a seahorse, I would like to make a
> stepping stone and sun catcher.
>    I have been everywhere looking for even a half decent picture of a
> seahorse, encyclopedia, dictionary, on the internet, through glass books
> and I have found nothing.
>    I don't know if they are just few and far between, they are very
> unique creatures and to find very nice patterns for them seems almost
> impossible.
>
>    If anyone could help, I would greatly appreciate it.
>    I look forward to your response.
>
>    Tryna
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From owner-glass Tue Mar 20 10:24:52 2001
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X-Path: exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com!DF125031
From: "Becker, Donna" <DF125031@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Lamp Making Instruction Book Recommendation
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:16:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hello,
I was wondering if you all could recommend a book on Lamp Making.
Something comprehensive, and not too basic.  I've been a stained glass
hobbyist (copper foil) for a few years now, but I don't even know what
"parts" to order from WC to create a lamp. I know there are forms 
and harps and bases and vase caps, etc. and everything has sizes, 
and I just don't know how to put it all together.  What I need is a book 
that tells what goes with what, etc.   There are several books out there, 
but, as with pattern books, I'm not always happy with what I order.

If someone could recommend a book that would explain all of that, I
would appreciate it.  You all have been so helpful in the past. 

Thanks!



Donna Becker
Senior Data Warehouse Consultant II
Teradata Division
Professional Services
donna.becker@chicagoil.ncr.com

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From owner-glass Tue Mar 20 11:58:21 2001
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Subject: Fwd: Bevels
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:53:48 EST
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Can anyone tell me where to get these bevels.

I need 90 -100 glue chip  Full (Double House) Bevels 4"x 12 1/2"  3/16 edge 
thickness with a 1/2" beveled edge.

30 Half House Bevels clear  4" x 6 1/4" 3/16" edge thickness with a 1/2" 
beveled edge.

30 Half Double House Bevels 2" x 12 1/2"  3/16" edge thickness with a 1/2" 
beveled edge.
Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob

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From owner-glass Tue Mar 20 13:08:37 2001
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please add me to your list.  I think I may have been deleted.

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>please add me to your list.&nbsp; I =
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From owner-glass Tue Mar 20 13:37:49 2001
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Dear Donna,

If You get a chance ...check out this new website that specializes in =
lamp shade production.

We are all grateful for the stained glass lady!

http://thestainedglasslady.tripod.com/lampshade/

Much success,

Daniel Carniglia
siriusdream@msn.com

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear Donna,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If You get a chance ...check out this =
new website=20
that&nbsp;specializes in lamp shade production.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We are all grateful for the stained =
glass=20
lady!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://thestainedglasslady.tripod.com/lampshade/">http://thestain=
edglasslady.tripod.com/lampshade/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Much success,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Daniel Carniglia</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:siriusdream@msn.com">siriusdream@msn.com</A></FONT></DIV><=
/BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Mar 20 21:46:18 2001
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Subject: Looking for name of Wissmach Opalescent 325-D
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:21:12 EST
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Hi...
we have some samples of Wissmach glass we bought quite awhile ago. I need to 
order some glass that is labeled Wissmach Opalescent 325-D.  I have called 
several glass places, and they need the name of the color, they can't seem to 
cross reference what seems to be a master sample from Wissmach, with their 
stock numbers. Any advice?
Ronda

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Hi...
<BR>we have some samples of Wissmach glass we bought quite awhile ago. I need to 
<BR>order some glass that is labeled Wissmach Opalescent 325-D. &nbsp;I have called 
<BR>several glass places, and they need the name of the color, they can't seem to 
<BR>cross reference what seems to be a master sample from Wissmach, with their 
<BR>stock numbers. Any advice?
<BR>Ronda</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Mar 20 23:20:09 2001
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X-Path: centurytel.net!Fortschultz
From: Grant Schultz <Fortschultz@centurytel.net>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: tips on working large..
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:16:30 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@centurytel.net>
References: <<200103191132_MC2-C948-B52C@compuserve.com>>
Organization: Sentury Insurance
Precedence: bulk

Hi !
Thank You for the tips on working large. I have a few questions about some of
the products you mentioned... Morton's copper cladd steel and copper clad
brass. I do not think I have seen any of these at my local stained glass
supplier. Do I have to get it on line like at Delphi or something? Can you get
this stuff at a hardware (Menards, Home Depot etc.)and is it wire? One more
question do you bend it around the pieces between the foiled pieces all the way
through top to bottom? Is the copper reinforcement you get in little rolls just
not near as strong as the products you mentioned?
I appreciate any info.
Christy

"Christie A. Wood" wrote:

> Message text written byChristy Schultz
> >I have my first official comissioned piece. Well that is some one who
> wants a glass piece and is not family! It will be a foiled piece that
> measures 35" x 15" and will hang in a kitchen window horizontially. Do I
> need to put rebar down the center? or horizontally-across? I will use
> the copper reinforcement strips throughout it and planned on framing in
> zinc. I have only just completed a large piece of similar size just not
> as wide.
> Any comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I also am
> going to charge them $300.00 Was that a good price to sell it for?<
>
> Anything over 24" in any direction will need some reinforcing.  I assume
> the 35" is width.  If so, you will need a reinforcement line or two running
> verically.  With copper foil I like to use either the copper-clad brass
> reinforcing strip, or Morton's StrongLine, which is copper-clad steel.
> This gets inserted between the copper-foiled pieces, and becomes one with
> the solder seam.  Invisible reinforcement.  No external rebar needed.  Is
> there any way you can frame in a wooden frame, rather than zinc?  The
> wooden frame is much easier to install, as you can shave it to exact sizes,
> and/or drill holes for hanging hook eyes, etc.  This is much harder to do
> with zinc.  But if not, well, it can be done.
>
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA

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From owner-glass Wed Mar 21 06:27:19 2001
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X-Path: warmglass.com!mbwalker
From: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@warmglass.com>
To: <Gailchat1@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Re: Looking for name of Wissmach Opalescent 325-D
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:02:32 -0500
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I'm amazed that the retailers you called couldn't tell you about the =
glass from the number.  I wonder how they order their glass?

Wissmach has all their specs online at:  =
http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/wissmach/home.html

325-D is on page 3 of the specs.  They call it a dense opal base glass, =
the color description is "Lt. amber/opal and/or crystal"

Brad Walker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
For information about warm glass techniques and processes
such as fusing, slumping, and kiln forming, please visit
the Warm Glass website at http://www.warmglass.com
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Gailchat1@aol.com=20
  To: glass@bungi.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 12:21 AM
  Subject: Looking for name of Wissmach Opalescent 325-D


  Hi...=20
  we have some samples of Wissmach glass we bought quite awhile ago. I =
need to=20
  order some glass that is labeled Wissmach Opalescent 325-D.  I have =
called=20
  several glass places, and they need the name of the color, they can't =
seem to=20
  cross reference what seems to be a master sample from Wissmach, with =
their=20
  stock numbers. Any advice?=20
  Ronda=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm amazed that the retailers you =
called couldn't=20
tell you about the glass from the number.&nbsp; I wonder how they order =
their=20
glass?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wissmach has all their specs online =
at:&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/wissmach/home.html">http://ww=
w.artglassworld.com/supply/wissmach/home.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>325-D is on page 3 of the specs.&nbsp; =
They call it=20
a dense opal base glass, the color description is "Lt. amber/opal and/or =

crystal"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Brad Walker</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------=
----<BR>For=20
information about warm glass techniques and processes<BR>such as fusing, =

slumping, and kiln forming, please visit<BR>the Warm Glass website at <A =

href=3D"http://www.warmglass.com">http://www.warmglass.com</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:Gailchat1@aol.com"=20
  title=3DGailchat1@aol.com>Gailchat1@aol.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com"=20
  title=3Dglass@bungi.com>glass@bungi.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, 2001 =
12:21=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Looking for name of =
Wissmach=20
  Opalescent 325-D</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Hi... =
<BR>we have some=20
  samples of Wissmach glass we bought quite awhile ago. I need to =
<BR>order some=20
  glass that is labeled Wissmach Opalescent 325-D. &nbsp;I have called=20
  <BR>several glass places, and they need the name of the color, they =
can't seem=20
  to <BR>cross reference what seems to be a master sample from Wissmach, =
with=20
  their <BR>stock numbers. Any advice? <BR>Ronda</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Mar 21 06:59:28 2001
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From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Lampmaking book
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:34:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@bright.net>
Precedence: bulk

I recently started doing lamps, and I found Joe Porcelli's "Lampmaking
Handbook" to be the most valuable tool I own!
May your day be as beautiful as you are...!

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From owner-glass Wed Mar 21 07:59:12 2001
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X-Path: netrax.net!rejones
From: Robert Jones <rejones@netrax.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Prairie Lamp Question
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:29:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@netrax.net>
Precedence: bulk

I have a request for a prairie lamp to match a prairie design window
panel.  I am trying to find the dimensions for a 14" lamp and a 16"
lamp.  It will be on a 4" vase cap.  can anyone provide me with the
lengths of the other three sides and the height of the panel for both
the 14" and the 16"?

Thanks in advance.

Bob

PS.  - I subscribed but have not been allowed the privilege yet, so can
you reply to me directly at rejones@netrax.net?

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From owner-glass Wed Mar 21 12:05:22 2001
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From: Alex Gacic <agacic@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Pattern ideas for a yoga instructor
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:41:28 -0800 (PST)
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Hi Everyone

I have a friend who is a yoga instructor. Does anyone
have some pattern ideas related to yoga?

Thanks
Alex Gacic
Shalimar, Florida

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From owner-glass Wed Mar 21 13:11:11 2001
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X-Path: earthlink.net!kremmert
From: "Kurt Remmert" <kremmert@earthlink.net>
To: "'Alex Gacic'" <agacic@yahoo.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Pattern ideas for a yoga instructor
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:29:36 -0600
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@yahoo.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Celtic Knots pattern?   Sorry, couldn't resist. ;)

Kurt
San Antonio, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Gacic [mailto:agacic@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 1:41 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Pattern ideas for a yoga instructor


Hi Everyone

I have a friend who is a yoga instructor. Does anyone
have some pattern ideas related to yoga?

Thanks
Alex Gacic
Shalimar, Florida

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From owner-glass Wed Mar 21 14:22:16 2001
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From: "steve" <charliehodge@ltdarkpoet.junglelink.co.uk>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: re yoga patterns
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:39:46 -0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@ltdarkpoet.junglelink.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

a few months back i did a couple of panels for a meditation room. think
elements air earth, fire and water. nice calm colours even relaxed me making
them
steve from cold and snowy england

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From owner-glass Thu Mar 22 02:04:29 2001
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From: "Kira Mason" <kiram@arrakis.es>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Pattern ideas for a yoga instructor
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:26:06 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@arrakis.es>
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Alex,

I have one clip-art image that is yoga related.  If you are interested I can
send it to you.

Kira
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Alex Gacic <agacic@yahoo.com>
Para: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Fecha: miércoles 21 de marzo de 2001 21:03
Asunto: Pattern ideas for a yoga instructor


>Hi Everyone
>
>I have a friend who is a yoga instructor. Does anyone
>have some pattern ideas related to yoga?
>
>Thanks
>Alex Gacic
>Shalimar, Florida
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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From owner-glass Thu Mar 22 21:32:10 2001
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: color
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:20:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

Remember the thread on color we had awhile ago?  There is a new book by
John Gage called Color and Meaning: Art, Science, and Symbolism (U of
Cal. Press) that goes into all kinds of things including things like
graphing the effect of color on muscles (Violet is highest).  Have only
seen a blurb, but if you happened on it at your local library, you might
want to give it a browse. - Cec

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*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri Mar 23 06:08:25 2001
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From: Cecily & Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: maruca@netaxs.com, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Color & Meaning book
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:41:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
References: <<Pine.SUN.3.95.1010323005529.24057E-100000@unix2.netaxs.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
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Has the highest effect of color on human muscular activity.

It is a line graph with the violet line starting at about 3/4s of the
way up on the left side and rising to almost the top on the right.

Then comes a red/green line in the graph, starting at half on the left
and about one third of the way the  red peaks at almost the violet line
then falls back to about half and then peaks for green at about 2/3rd of
the way from the bottom about 7/8s of the way across.

Under that is a blue line that starts about a quarter of the way up on
the left side, peaks at about half just after the red peak and goes back
down and pretty flat at a little above its initial starting level.

The lowest line, orange, starts about 1/8 above the bottom on the left,
peaks at about a quarter at the same peak point as the read, and then
falls off, leveling just slightly above the starting point.

The blurb doesn't further explain this - like why the red/green shares a
line, nor why the violet increases the whole length and the others
peak.  Although I have previously read that there is something funky
about the red/green receptors in the eye, and that the ability to
distinguish green from red may have been fairly recent (in terms of
development of monkeys/apes/humans).  We'll have to read the book.

The author was the head of the art history dept at Cambridge and wrote a
previous, award winning book "Color and Culture" tracing the uses of
color in art history.

At $35 I'm going to hope it shows up in the local library.

maruca@netaxs.com wrote:

> (Violet is highest)
>
> highest what?

--
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*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri Mar 23 19:04:35 2001
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Glue chipped house bevels
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:51:25 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

We have glue chip full house bevels.  I'll take the info to work with me
and see if we have the sizes you want.  If not, we may be able to get
them for you.  Have you called Warner-Criv?

Suzanne


> > Hello,
> > I am looking for glue chip full house bevels 4" x 12.5 and half house
> bevels
> > in glue chip as well in  4" x 6 1/2.
> > I need these sizes as I have to build 3 large windows to match my
> customer's
> > door lites.
> > Thanks in advance for your help.
> >
> > Bob
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From owner-glass Sat Mar 24 10:24:26 2001
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Subject: Painting on glass 
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 13:00:13 EST
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Hi Fellow bungians,for anyone who might be interested,we still have just two openings left in the painting on glass classes. These classes are taught in Cinti Ohio by another fellow(she)bungian Ann Baxter.For info call the Glass shack 513-385-4364 or e-mail me at beveler4@aol.com The classes are this coming weekend march 30th 31st and April 1
Beveler4 (Stan)
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From owner-glass Sat Mar 24 11:55:48 2001
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X-Path: kmail.com!linda
From: <linda@kmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Attract Men or Women
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:59:51
Message-ID: <m14gtki-0000nzC@daver.bungi.com>
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You may have seen stories about human pheromones on 20/20, 
Dateline NBC, Hard Copy, or many other television programs. 
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The remove link is attracter458@email.com
 
 
 
 
 
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From owner-glass Sat Mar 24 14:30:12 2001
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From: "CP" <mschatee@twcny.rr.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Dreaming of Patterns
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 16:59:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@twcny.rr.com>
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Here's a different thread for discussion.  Where do most ideas for patterns
or designs come from?   I'm curious what inspires people.  Yesterday morning
I woke up and I had a design in my head that I just had to make and I don't
know why.  I'm not sure of the symbolism of the picture and it's bugging me.
Do other people wake up with sketches in their heads?  This has never
happened to me before, I never felt like I was really creative.  I can make
anything with a pattern or design something if someone gives me an idea to
expand on.  But this was really strange and I felt compelled to make it.  So
I did!  The glass is drying right now before I foil it.  I didn't have a
reason to make it but I was going to submit a piece to an art auction for a
fund raiser in May, so I guess it's this one.

Just curious and thought I would inspire a new thread for discussion, this
board has been very quiet lately.

And just thought I would share.....it snowed in Upstate NY AGAIN today!

Caren

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From owner-glass Sun Mar 25 13:34:07 2001
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From: "steve" <charliehodge@ltdarkpoet.junglelink.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE DREAMING OF PATTERNS
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 09:52:20 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@ltdarkpoet.junglelink.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

I hate having to force a design from nothing. If its for me,which is not
very often now days, my interest in english history seems to come through. i
have just designed a piece with knotwork and standing stones. I now have to
design a piece for a 16th century french barn convertion, so i'm a little
stumped for the history thing so i think i'm going to the french pastime of
eating and drinking. so wine could feature, may be a bit of the absinthe
window
steve

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From owner-glass Mon Mar 26 03:27:34 2001
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From: "Jones B.S." <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: "'Glass@bungi.com'" <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Dreaming of Patterns
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:05:55 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@bham.ac.uk>
Precedence: bulk


>Here's a different thread for discussion.  Where do most ideas for patterns
>or designs come from?   I'm curious what inspires people.  Yesterday
morning
>I woke up and I had a design in my head that I just had to make and I don't
>know why.  I'm not sure of the symbolism of the picture and it's bugging
me.
>Do other people wake up with sketches in their heads?  This has never

Caren

Glad somebody else has this problem. It definately helps if you go on an
image survey for a topic you are interested in pro or otherwise. This is why
net surfing occasionally helps a lot for ideas. Unfortunately three months
ago I woke up with an idea for a grandmother wall clock five feet high made
out of some teak I had scrounged from a Tip . I now have a nice wall clock
...since then I now have a nice brass mantelpiece clock as well. The glass
workshop has just been cleaned up of al the wood dust and brass swarf . Oh
well back to the glass and back to dreaming.

Brandon (UK)
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From owner-glass Mon Mar 26 08:12:34 2001
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To: <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Dreaming of Patterns
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:09:30 -0800
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Precedence: bulk

I just go with it, sometimes sketching a few rough ideas to be worked out
neatly later on.  I never interpret meaning of symbolism in my dreaming
ideas.   they are usually just rearrangements and extrapolations of things
i've seen and thought about during the day...i just enjoy them, like
watching a movie...always in full technicolor. Sometimes, I think I'd
rather do patterns, than the glass, and have done quite a few for friends.
 If i feel uninspired, just getting out...a trip to a museum or even the
zoo will waken that side of my brain...I remember a Monet exhibit had my
brain swirling for weeks! A walk in the woods does the same thing, come to
think of it!

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From owner-glass Mon Mar 26 16:04:07 2001
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From: "Maureen & David Humphreys" <searun@sprintmail.com>
To: "Art glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: It is done.
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:42:19 -0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@sprintmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to all that offered advice on the 'stary night' astronomy piece I
just finishes. The 22 inch wood frame is great on it and I feel the piece
will hold up well.
I did have some trouble with the foiling of the small cut out man and women
for the piece. Maybe I rushed the soldering but the first glass under piece
broke. I like the effect and will try to do the same on another piece, but
hope not to have a FX on the under lay glass.
Maureen


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From owner-glass Mon Mar 26 20:10:39 2001
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: The piece looks great.
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:39:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@sprintmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to all that offered advice on the 'stary night' astronomy piece I
just finishes. The 22 inch wood frame is great on it and I feel the piece
will hold up well.
I did have some trouble with the foiling of the small cut out man and women
for the piece. Maybe I rushed the soldering but the first glass under piece
broke. I like the effect and will try to do the same on another piece, but
hope not to have a FX on the under lay glass.
Maureen

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From owner-glass Tue Mar 27 20:57:08 2001
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From: Grant Schultz <Fortschultz@centurytel.net>
To: CP <mschatee@twcny.rr.com>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Dreaming of Patterns
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:51:38 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@centurytel.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@twcny.rr.com>>
Organization: Sentury Insurance
Precedence: bulk

Pattern ideas...
I have to admit I am fairly creative, even went to school for Art but I get
crazy ideas trying to fall asleep at night as well. I wake up in the morning or
later the next day and go oh yeah! I had an idea! I need to write this stuff
down or I forget. I really love to create my own patterns. I am finally getting
better at simplifying my ideas for glass. Things you draw for paintings just
don't work well translated into glass, especially went you are trying to cut,
grind and foil the shapes. I think you have to work "symbolically"  for it to
work well. Details forget it unless you have one of those fancy saws or you go
back and maybe paint in details on the glass. I just made up a design of a pond
with lilly pads, koi and stuff. I created it in a circle shape about 14-16
inches. Sure I was inspired by some other patterns on this theme but it is
totally original in design. Personally I think this creating of original
designs/ patterns reinforces the idea of stained glass as being a fine art! Just
a craft... Ha!I don't think so....
Christy

CP wrote:

> Here's a different thread for discussion.  Where do most ideas for patterns
> or designs come from?   I'm curious what inspires people.  Yesterday morning
> I woke up and I had a design in my head that I just had to make and I don't
> know why.  I'm not sure of the symbolism of the picture and it's bugging me.
> Do other people wake up with sketches in their heads?  This has never
> happened to me before, I never felt like I was really creative.  I can make
> anything with a pattern or design something if someone gives me an idea to
> expand on.  But this was really strange and I felt compelled to make it.  So
> I did!  The glass is drying right now before I foil it.  I didn't have a
> reason to make it but I was going to submit a piece to an art auction for a
> fund raiser in May, so I guess it's this one.
>
> Just curious and thought I would inspire a new thread for discussion, this
> board has been very quiet lately.
>
> And just thought I would share.....it snowed in Upstate NY AGAIN today!
>
> Caren
>
> ----
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> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Tue Mar 27 21:02:33 2001
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X-Path: aol.com!Awbaxter
From: Awbaxter@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: need glass referrals
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:58:41 EST
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@aol.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hello fellow bungians,
I am in the process of editing the IGGA's newsletter Annual Sources Guide, 
which will be sent out this spring.  As we compile the lists of sources of 
goods and services, organizations, classes and publications, I know we're 
missing a lot.... 

I would like to get a more comprehensive list of educational opportunities 
and galleries/museums that feature glass and glass artists... so if any of 
you knows of deserving institutions, please forward that info to: 
Galleries/Museums to Mary Hunt
Classes/Schools to KSee, 
and Guilds/Organizations to me at: 

igga-comm@onebox.com

Thank you all,
Ann Baxter
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From owner-glass Tue Mar 27 21:34:28 2001
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X-Path: home.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: *Just* a craft?
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:20:47 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>
Organization: glassdancer
Precedence: bulk

Main Entry: 1craft
Pronunciation: 'kraft
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, strength, skill, from Old English cræft; akin
to Old High German kraft strength
Date: before 12th century
1 : skill in planning, making, or executing : DEXTERITY
2 : an occupation or trade requiring manual dexterity or artistic skill
<the carpenter's craft> <the craft of writing plays> <crafts such as
pottery, carpentry, and sewing>
3 : skill in deceiving to gain an end <used craft and guile to close the
deal>
4 : the members of a trade or trade association

Craftsman
2 : one who creates or performs with skill or dexterity especially in
the manual arts <jewelry made by European craftsmen>

No, not *just* a craft.  Im proud of my craft.  

Think about it. Read the definition of craft.  Are you a good craftsman?

I believe I am a better craftsman than artist.  I am very proud of my
craftsmanship.  I work really hard to do good work.  I dont however
boast that I might be a master craftsman.  Dont know that I ever will
be, and who decides that anyway?

I do believe I am also an artist.

Look at some paintings that have paint slapped on a canvas.  Did it take
a lot more planning, work, for me to produce a really nice stained glass
panel?   Yep. (imho)  Is it considered fine art?  Nope, but if well done
it is considered a fine craft.  Having your work called a fine craft, is
not an insult.

We arent gluing thread onto styrofoam balls for hair...that's where
people are getting screwed up in the head...thinking that's a craft.
I dont know *what* *that* is! ;o)

Suzanne
----
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From owner-glass Tue Mar 27 22:29:49 2001
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X-Path: centurytel.net!Fortschultz
From: Grant Schultz <Fortschultz@centurytel.net>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@home.com>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: *Just* a craft?
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:17:00 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@centurytel.net>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@home.com>>
Organization: Sentury Insurance
Precedence: bulk

Great point!
I knew mentioning that in my reply might get a rise and it is a great poi=
nt
to discuss! I am glad you posted the definition. When I had taught art ev=
en
at the elementary level I insisted that in the criteria I graded on that
craftsman ship was very important even at a young age. Sloppy art is slop=
py
at any age!  . Controlling the medium which one works in...not letting it
controll you.  I like the idea that- what is art with out the attention t=
o
great craftsmanship.? One must be able to stay in the lines before ventur=
ing
to go out in order for the art to have actual creditbility. I personally =
had
to be able to express my self artiscally through realism which eventually
led to working abstract and having that make sense to me and have meaning.
When others look at abstract paintings and say oh I could do that!  Could
they really? with the same intensity of meaning? Wow! I am getting out
there, but it is a great topic to think about and discuss. Personally a j=
ob
is not worth doing if it is not your best work.
Christy

Suzanne Gunn wrote:

> Main Entry: 1craft
> Pronunciation: 'kraft
> Function: noun
> Etymology: Middle English, strength, skill, from Old English cr=E6ft; a=
kin
> to Old High German kraft strength
> Date: before 12th century
> 1 : skill in planning, making, or executing : DEXTERITY
> 2 : an occupation or trade requiring manual dexterity or artistic skill
> <the carpenter's craft> <the craft of writing plays> <crafts such as
> pottery, carpentry, and sewing>
> 3 : skill in deceiving to gain an end <used craft and guile to close th=
e
> deal>
> 4 : the members of a trade or trade association
>
> Craftsman
> 2 : one who creates or performs with skill or dexterity especially in
> the manual arts <jewelry made by European craftsmen>
>
> No, not *just* a craft.  Im proud of my craft.
>
> Think about it. Read the definition of craft.  Are you a good craftsman=
?
>
> I believe I am a better craftsman than artist.  I am very proud of my
> craftsmanship.  I work really hard to do good work.  I dont however
> boast that I might be a master craftsman.  Dont know that I ever will
> be, and who decides that anyway?
>
> I do believe I am also an artist.
>
> Look at some paintings that have paint slapped on a canvas.  Did it tak=
e
> a lot more planning, work, for me to produce a really nice stained glas=
s
> panel?   Yep. (imho)  Is it considered fine art?  Nope, but if well don=
e
> it is considered a fine craft.  Having your work called a fine craft, i=
s
> not an insult.
>
> We arent gluing thread onto styrofoam balls for hair...that's where
> people are getting screwed up in the head...thinking that's a craft.
> I dont know *what* *that* is! ;o)
>
> Suzanne
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Wed Mar 28 04:49:38 2001
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X-Path: icx.net!gander
From: "G. Anderson" <gander@icx.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Installation Query
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:26:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@icx.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi! I joined the group recently and haven't known exactly how to post a
message.
Will try it this way.

I'm nearly finished with a large leaded panel -- to be inset in a front
door. Glass size is about 2 1/2 feet by 5 feet, and the design is of
abstract
irises. Not a straight line in the piece! Beautiful blue, lavender, and
rose-colored glass.

My question regards installation of the panel. I have two choices: [1]
use
tempered glass on the outside and solder at least three reinforcing bars
on the
inside (back) of the panel. [2]  Put one piece of tempered glass on each
side of
the leaded glass panel.

The disadvantage of [1] is that the reinforcing bars will conflict with
the
curving shapes of the stained glass. The disadvantage of [2] is that I'm
afraid
that condensation will build up between the glass panels. By the way,
I've been
advised not to "thermopane" the glass panels because the glass is so
heavy and
the thermopane almost always fails.

I'd appreciate any ideas you may have. Have been worrying about
installation for a long time now.

Gail




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From owner-glass Thu Mar 29 14:04:26 2001
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "G. Anderson" <gander@icx.net>
Subject: Re: Installation Query
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:53:02 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0@verrier>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@icx.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Door panel installations require some form of stiffening.  This is
because of the way the door vibrates on shutting and sometimes on
opening.

        An engineer friend of mine has informed me that placing a sheet
on one side of the leaded glass (preferably the outside) will reduce the
amount of shock that the panel gets when the door closes.  This is
because of the air cushion between the two sheets.

        The saddle bars do not have to be straight. You can bend the
round mild steel rods to the curve of the lines.  Choose areas where
lines go mostly across the width of the panel.  One third and two thirds
of the way up are good, although you may want to add a fourth, so it
would be quarters.  The rods will not always be able to follow the lines
of the lead calmes, but should not interfere with the design much.

        You should also look a a number of windows with saddle bars and
see if you really notice the horizontal bars on them.  The eye often
ignores things the brain does not want to see!  The horizontal bars are
not always so intrusive as we makers think.

Steve


In message <1970Jan1.000.0@icx.net>, G. Anderson <gander@icx.net> writes
>Hi! I joined the group recently and haven't known exactly how to post a
>message.
>Will try it this way.
>
>I'm nearly finished with a large leaded panel -- to be inset in a front
>door. Glass size is about 2 1/2 feet by 5 feet, and the design is of
>abstract
>irises. Not a straight line in the piece! Beautiful blue, lavender, and
>rose-colored glass.
>
>My question regards installation of the panel. I have two choices: [1]
>use
>tempered glass on the outside and solder at least three reinforcing bars
>on the
>inside (back) of the panel. [2]  Put one piece of tempered glass on each
>side of
>the leaded glass panel.
>
>The disadvantage of [1] is that the reinforcing bars will conflict with
>the
>curving shapes of the stained glass. The disadvantage of [2] is that I'm
>afraid
>that condensation will build up between the glass panels. By the way,
>I've been
>advised not to "thermopane" the glass panels because the glass is so
>heavy and
>the thermopane almost always fails.
>
>I'd appreciate any ideas you may have. Have been worrying about
>installation for a long time now.
>
>Gail
>
>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Fri Mar 30 20:01:26 2001
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From owner-glass Sat Mar 31 12:27:56 2001
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From: "glass expressions" <glassx@bardstown.com>
To: "AGSA" <info@agsa.org>, "BONNIE BLINCOE" <bonnie@bluegrass.net>,
Content-Type: multipart/related;
Subject: a wonderful pace to visit and learn
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  hi i just wanted to let everyone now about a wonderful palce we =
visited!  it is terra studios  web page www.terrastudios.com  check it =
out and get on mailing list.  they have hands on classes on hot glass =
slumped& fused glass pottery and employes working all the time where you =
can watch.  they have camper hook ups and kitchen-netts the grounds have =
walking paths with hankd made items and waterfalls all over- if at all =
possible i would suggest you go for a visit and  take some classes ect.  =
WOW WAS IT NEAT AND FUN! tell everyone you know and classes ect are very =
reasonable- also a restarant to die for and everything is had made table =
dishes ect...  thanks ricky - hope you don't mind me sending this but i =
love to find neat place to deal with our art!

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and get on mailing list.&nbsp; they have hands on classes on hot glass=20
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you can=20
watch.&nbsp; they have camper hook ups and kitchen-netts the grounds =
have=20
walking paths with hankd made items and waterfalls all over- if at all =
possible=20
i would suggest you go for a visit and&nbsp; take some classes =
ect.&nbsp; WOW=20
WAS IT NEAT AND FUN! tell everyone you know and classes ect are very =
reasonable-=20
also a restarant to die for and everything is had made table dishes =
ect...&nbsp;=20
thanks ricky - hope you don't mind me sending this but i love to find =
neat place=20
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From owner-glass Sat Mar 31 12:54:24 2001
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com
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	id <m14jSEe-0000OCa@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 12:44:36 -0800 (PST)
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Kevin O'Grady
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 12:42:27 PST
Message-ID: <m14jSCa-0000OCC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

I recently got my edition of Bead & Button and saw Kevin O'Grady's
wonderful bracelets.  WOW!  I was wondering if anyone has seen his work.
I want to see is I can take a class from him in Vegas next year perhaps.
Was he at the Glass Expo in Vegas this year?


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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