From owner-glass Thu Jun  1 08:03:23 2000
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From: Kauriee@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: putty
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 10:30:05 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello,

I have some putty from Inland that is very difficult to use.  To mix it 
requires about 1 hour of intensive stirring and using an old egg beater in a 
drill.  Once it is mixed, it is rather runny and tends to seep out from under 
the lead cames.  Can I just throw some whiting in there to thicken it up a 
bit?  Any suggestions on how to make mixing any easier?  I tried putting it 
on a paint shaker for a while, but that didn't even BEGIN to mix it.  Next 
time I'm using something else!  

Thanks!

Kauriee Wood
The Looking Glass
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  1 08:37:49 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
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Subject: Re: putty
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:31:17 EDT
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In a message dated 6/1/00 8:04:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Kauriee@aol.com 
writes:

> I have some putty from Inland that is very difficult to use.

Old putty that has hardened is best trashed. It is not very expensive and 
trying to add something like turpentine and remixing is a hit or miss 
proposition.  

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  1 10:02:07 2000
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From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
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Subject: off topic
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 09:47:24 -0700
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Does anyone know of a cooking/baking group that is similiar in format to
this group?? I like the idea of asking questions and getting answers from
others who have "been there, done that". You may answer directly to me as
this is really not stained glass related. 

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From owner-glass Thu Jun  1 12:16:02 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Pig lamp for sale
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:04:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi folk.  You long-time bungians will remember my angst in
making a stained glass Tiffany-style "8 little piggie" lampshade
for a pig enthusist client.  This was about 2 years ago.

Well.....client is getting a divorce and wishes to sell the
custom-designed piggie lampshade.  IGGA members will
recall that it's pictured on the back cover of the recent
2000 GlassPlanner issue of "Common Ground:GLASS"
newsletter.  It's a 25" wide round shape with 8 little piggies
on it, piggie colors alternating pink tones/black&white Spectrum
Baroque tones.  Background is Armstrong grafitti glass
(basic streaky white with little dots & streaks of various party
type primary colors throughout).

If interested, I think I still have a photo of it on my web site at
www.igga.org/wood/  but it's probably the 3rd or 4th picture
in my web site, so just page through until you reach it.

If you are really, really interested in perhaps purchasing it,
you can contact its owner at:
Warren Silverman
18300 Osborne Ave., Willow Grove, PA 19090
phone 215-657-7309

Thanks.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  1 14:03:28 2000
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From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
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Subject: Re: Pig lamp for sale
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 17:07:26 -0400
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I can't believe it's been that long ago!
Maybe he'll want another one after he gets reestablished!!   :-)
Dee
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  1 15:17:08 2000
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Subject: support
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:58:56 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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to all the glass pro's. I have made a finished piece 30 x 37. Has a lot of 
large pieces in it. What should I have done or can do to support this piece.
thanks for your help
sheila
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  1 15:58:25 2000
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X-Path: discover.earthlink.net!leslye2
From: Leslye Nelson <leslye2@earthlink.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>, Glass Talk <glass@intrastar.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: zinc around foil panel
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 18:00:18 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I have a question I need an answer on right away.

For strength I have put a zinc border around a transom I had to do in
foil.  I have, of course, soldered the 4 corners.

My question is:
Do I have to solder  everywhere the foil meets the zinc or can I let it
go with just the 4 corners?

Thanks,
Leslye

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From owner-glass Thu Jun  1 16:24:28 2000
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: zinc around foil panel
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 16:18:38 PDT
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[In the message entitled "zinc around foil panel" on Jun  1, 18:00, Leslye Nelson writes:]

> Do I have to solder  everywhere the foil meets the zinc or can I let it
> go with just the 4 corners?

I always solder every place the foil meets the zinc, as well as the 4 
corners.


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  1 16:32:51 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Kauriee@aol.com
Subject: Re: putty
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:58:39 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

It sounds to me like you have all the equipment that you need to make
your own cement.  There are a number of recipes, but the best is in the
archives of this list.

Try it out!

Steve
In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Kauriee@aol.com writes
>Hello,
>
>I have some putty from Inland that is very difficult to use.  To mix it 
>requires about 1 hour of intensive stirring and using an old egg beater in a 
>drill.  Once it is mixed, it is rather runny and tends to seep out from under 
>the lead cames.  Can I just throw some whiting in there to thicken it up a 
>bit?  Any suggestions on how to make mixing any easier?  I tried putting it 
>on a paint shaker for a while, but that didn't even BEGIN to mix it.  Next 
>time I'm using something else!  
>
>Thanks!
>
>Kauriee Wood
>The Looking Glass
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  1 20:31:57 2000
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From: "cheryl zipf" <glassgirl@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: re putty
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:41:36 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFCC1A.8B290300
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mix it with linseed oil   also this is great for  repairs just let the =
linseed oil soften your old putty  takes time but works like a dream  =
just dont leave the linseed oil on the glass to long  it will thicken =
like glue and is hard to remove but its easy to remove a broken piece =
out instead of breaking it out=20

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFCC1A.8B290300
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>mix it with linseed oil&nbsp;&nbsp; =
also this is=20
great for&nbsp; repairs just let the linseed oil soften your old =
putty&nbsp;=20
takes time but works like a dream&nbsp; just dont leave the linseed oil =
on the=20
glass to long&nbsp; it will thicken like glue and is hard to remove but =
its easy=20
to remove a broken piece out instead of breaking it out=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFCC1A.8B290300--

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From owner-glass Thu Jun  1 23:32:41 2000
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X-Path: discover.earthlink.net!leslye2
From: Leslye Nelson <leslye2@earthlink.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>, Glass Talk <glass@intrastar.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: zinc around...thanks
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 20:40:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<m12xeCF-0000klC@daver.bungi.com>>
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All right, all right.  I guess I knew the answer, just wanted a different one.  :-)
I soldered all intersections and it looks great.  Thanks for letting me know there was no
shortcut.

Leslye

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From owner-glass Fri Jun  2 00:01:55 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: cheryl zipf <glassgirl@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: re putty
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:48:54 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
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I've now found the recipe for lead light cement on my computer files.
As the original enquirer has all the tools for mixing hardened putty,
she also has the tools for making her own cement at a fraction of the
cost of buying it in.  The recipe follows:

7 parts whiting  (or 6 parts whiting and 1 part plaster of Paris)
1 part boiled linseed oil
1 part mineral spirits (turpentine or other)
1-2 Tablespoons lamp black or other colorant

Mix the dry parts reserving i/2 part for adjusting final consistency of
mixture. Add the wet parts and mix together. After 5 minutes or even
less, the whole will be mixed and of a barely pourable consistency.  If
it is too runny, add some of the reserved dry part to thicken; re-mix.

Never, ever use Portland cement in your cement.

Steve

PS, I find mixing linseed oil with lead light cement, just extends the
setting time; mineral spirits works better, in the cases where the
whiting and linseed oil have separated.  But if it is like a rock at the
bottom, throw it away.  It does not cost enough to be worth the effort
of re-mixing.
S

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, cheryl zipf <glassgirl@mindspring.com>
writes
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFCC1A.8B290300
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>       charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>mix it with linseed oil   also this is great for  repairs just let the =
>linseed oil soften your old putty  takes time but works like a dream  =
........cut.........
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  2 00:51:54 2000
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X-Path: discover.earthlink.net!leslye2
From: Leslye Nelson <leslye2@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: putty
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:41:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I had this problem also but about 5 minutes in the paint shaker at Walmart solved
my problem quite nicely.  Can you try the  paint shaker for  longer?  A little
whiting probably wouldn't  hurt assuming it is thoroughly mixed.

Leslye Nelson

Kauriee@aol.com wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have some putty from Inland that is very difficult to use.  To mix it
> requires about 1 hour of intensive stirring and using an old egg beater in a
> drill.  Once it is mixed, it is rather runny and tends to seep out from under
> the lead cames.  Can I just throw some whiting in there to thicken it up a
> bit?  Any suggestions on how to make mixing any easier?  I tried putting it
> on a paint shaker for a while, but that didn't even BEGIN to mix it.  Next
> time I'm using something else!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kauriee Wood
> The Looking Glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri Jun  2 02:25:18 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!MATRONA
From: MATRONA@aol.com
To: x96dirks@wmich.edu, x91obrien7@wmich.edu, Relf@aol.com,
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--part1_b9.39a2ba6.2668d57e_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



This is an "honor" virus.

 I have been busy of late and I have not the time, nor
 the expertise, to write a virus. So I would like you to
open windows explorer and randomly delete 10 or
 12 files (minimum of 3 system files) and then send
 this e-mail on to everyone on your list.

 Thank you for your co-operation.

--part1_b9.39a2ba6.2668d57e_boundary
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From: MATRONA@aol.com
Full-name: MATRONA
Message-ID: <3b.5a50106.26687ed4@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 23:07:00 EDT
Subject: Re: "Honor" virus
To: jeffanson@worldnet.att.net
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X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 101


Can I do it after this storm?
Love MOM


This is an "honor" virus.

 I have been busy of late and I have not the time, nor
 the expertise, to write a virus. So I would like you to
open windows explorer and randomly delete 10 or
 12 files (minimum of 3 system files) and then send
 this e-mail on to everyone on your list.

 Thank you for your co-operation.

--part1_b9.39a2ba6.2668d57e_boundary--
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  2 02:55:07 2000
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 02:41:27 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: eth.net!niksang
From: "NIKHIL" <niksang@eth.net>
To: "aavkar" <aavkar@satyam.net.in>,
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 23:56:50 +0530
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Kind attn.
Till further notice, my email address is niksang@eth.net.=20
best regards
Nikhil

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFCC25.0E0184A0
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Kind attn.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Till further notice, my email =
address is <A=20
href=3D"mailto:niksang@eth.net">niksang@eth.net.</A> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>best regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Nikhil</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: support
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:19:05 -0400
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Message text written by INTERNET:Shecharlie@aol.com
>to all the glass pro's. I have made a finished piece 30 x 37. Has a lot =
of

large pieces in it. What should I have done or can do to support this
piece.
thanks for your help<

Was it done in copper foil or lead or brass came?

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Sun Jun  4 05:03:45 2000
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From: "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" <elere@clientes.euskaltel.es>
To: Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: ANYONE home?
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 11:43:45 +0200
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HI bungians
I am wondering whether evryone is on vacation or my mail server is out
of order, (has been recently). I am trying to get to a news group called
rec.crafts.glass, or something like that, I've been searching for a link
to it in the net and glass addresses I have with no luck, anyone knows
the right thing to key in? Thanks in advance.
Elena in Bilbao

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From owner-glass Sun Jun  4 08:41:43 2000
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Subject: ANYONE home?
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 16:30:07 +0100
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Here's a link to their FAQ page
http://people.delphi.com/stackman/faq.html 

Regards
Kay

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From owner-glass Sun Jun  4 08:57:31 2000
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: "Elena Rod4rfguez Echebarria" <elere@clientes.euskaltel.es>
Subject: Re: ANYONE home?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 10:48:40 +0000
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>  I am trying to get to a news
> group called rec.crafts.glass

Elena, if you're using Netscape, click on the little icon in the 
lower right-hand corner of the screen that looks like two cartoon 
"talk" balloons. That opens the news reader, where you go to File (in 
the upper left-hand corner) and select "Subscribe," which opens a 
splash where you can type in rec.crafts.glass ... click "Okay" and 
click on "rec.crafts.glass" in the left-hand menu where it now 
appears and all the messages in that group will load. Click on the 
subjects that interest you, and they'll appear in the bottom 
left-hand area of the screen. Click on the little "+" signs at the 
left of each subject and responses from others to those subjects will 
automatically list.

Microsoft Internet Explorer's about the same, except you select 
"Tools" instead of "File" and once there, select "Mail and News," 
then "Read News." More than that, I can't tell you, though, 'cause I 
use Netscape, so haven't set up the IE side of things.

You might also have to change some settings in the browser, whichever 
one you use, to get it to interact with your personal ISP ... they'll 
be able to tell you what to do, though.

Hope to see you in rec.crafts.glass - I'm there every day just about.

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Jun  5 02:54:46 2000
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X-Path: arrakis.es!kiram
From: "Kira Mason" <kiram@arrakis.es>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Beach Glass
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:27:51 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi group!

For those of you who anwsered my questions about a month ago about all the
windows I am doing for my house, it is coming along great.  The bathroom
window is half-way finished.  They are two panels that are going to be
vacumed between a dbl. pane, sliding left/right.  I am doing a whale that is
going across the whole thing it is in Spectrum, steel blue, and the
background is also Spectum, dark amber.  I just love it when you go through
the whole process of designing, drawing, thinking, the whole creative
process in general and then you fininsh it and bam!!  You are in love with
the piece and say, "Yes, Yes, Yes!!!  Whoa Momma!!!".

Now I have a question.  The front window that I am doing I am going to
something abstract with all of the beautiful pieces of glass that I have
collected over the years.  You know the ones that when you go to to "glass
store" and there is that little piece of Bullseye light violet and ya just
gotta have it...  Well, back to the question.  Last year on vacation in
Almeria, Spain I picked up about 3 pounds of beach glass and I was
wondering, has anyone ever used it in a panel?  I am thinking about adding
it to the panel on the front window if it is possible.  If so please
elaborate.

Thanks alot!
Kira
Madrid


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From owner-glass Mon Jun  5 03:57:39 2000
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From: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: glass size?
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 21:03:14 -0500
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Hi all..

I know if you use a one piece glass in a door and some windows near doors it
has to be tempered.. Leaded glass is exempt from this but to what point? Is
there a maximum size that any pierce can be in the panel? I'm doing a rather
large window in a stairwell and want to stay out of trouble with the city
inspectors.. Some of the pieces in the panel are larger that I would usually
put in a panel...

Byron..


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From owner-glass Mon Jun  5 09:36:21 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: byronw@fastlane.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: glass size?
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:24:00 EDT
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In a message dated 6/5/00 3:58:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
byronw@fastlane.net writes:

> I know if you use a one piece glass in a door and some windows near doors it
>  has to be tempered.. Leaded glass is exempt from this but to what point? 

Leaded glass is exempt only to the point the LOCAL building inspector 
permits. National standards are not mandatory in the USA and your local 
building department will have it's own standards. I have never heard of a 
piece size restriction but you can bet that somewhere someone has instituted 
one-perhaps at a building department near you. Pay them a visit. It costs 
nothing to ask.


Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Mon Jun  5 11:04:15 2000
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From: Kauriee@aol.com
To: byronw@fastlane.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: glass size?
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:32:22 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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In a message dated 06/05/2000 6:58:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
byronw@fastlane.net writes:

<< Hi all..
 
 I know if you use a one piece glass in a door and some windows near doors it
 has to be tempered.. Leaded glass is exempt from this but to what point? Is
 there a maximum size that any pierce can be in the panel? I'm doing a rather
 large window in a stairwell and want to stay out of trouble with the city
 inspectors.. Some of the pieces in the panel are larger that I would usually
 put in a panel...
 
 Byron.. >>

Contact the Stained Glass Association of America.  They can send you the 
paperwork that explains all the regulations/exeptions. 
<A HREF="http://www.stainedglass.org/sgaamain.html">The Stained Glass 
Association of America</A>
 


Kauriee Wood
The Looking Glass
Dover, Delaware
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From owner-glass Mon Jun  5 14:52:18 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Byron Wells <byronw@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: glass size?
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 22:12:10 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Byron
        If you are in the UK the regulations are covered by a British
Standard.  Your public library can tell you what they say.
        My recollection is that the max. size the individual piece of
glass can be is 200mm square  (unless that is 200 square mm).  In any
case I have never used glass pieces in my doors and sidelights which
exceed 200mm square.
        I'm off on holiday, but I will try to remember to look up the
regulations for you.  (which reminds me, all glaziers are supposed to
have these regulations (often in poster form) for their reference. Ask
you local.

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Byron Wells <byronw@fastlane.net> writes
>Hi all..
>
>I know if you use a one piece glass in a door and some windows near doors it
>has to be tempered.. Leaded glass is exempt from this but to what point? Is
>there a maximum size that any pierce can be in the panel? I'm doing a rather
>large window in a stairwell and want to stay out of trouble with the city
>inspectors.. Some of the pieces in the panel are larger that I would usually
>put in a panel...
>
>Byron..
>
>
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Mon Jun  5 16:27:28 2000
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: bragging
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 17:34:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hey, it's not the Nobel or Pulitzer or Stanley Cup....but yesterday at
the Manchester Arts Association Arts and Crafts Fair, I won Best of Show
in crafts.  Big blue ribbon and $150!

(But you know, after I got my MA, I could never get my co-workers to
call me Master Dorothy.  I doubt if they'll call me Best of Show
Dorothy, either!)

One more show to go this spring, then we're off for the summer.  I use
*off* advisedly, since we're gong to buying batches of glass and making
ahead on our old standbys (angels, crosses, nightlights, butterflies,
roses) and developing new designs. (So I hear elephant collectors like
trunks up as a sign of good luck.)

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Mon Jun  5 18:01:49 2000
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From: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
To: <Bobfuses@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass size?
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:57:20 -0500
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Ok thanks. I'll call the city in question.. I mostly work in one area and
have no problems there but this is a new area for me and I dont wannna get
in trouble right off the bat!



----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobfuses@aol.com>
To: <byronw@fastlane.net>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: glass size?


> In a message dated 6/5/00 3:58:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> byronw@fastlane.net writes:
>
> > I know if you use a one piece glass in a door and some windows near
doors it
> >  has to be tempered.. Leaded glass is exempt from this but to what
point?
>
> Leaded glass is exempt only to the point the LOCAL building inspector
> permits. National standards are not mandatory in the USA and your local
> building department will have it's own standards. I have never heard of a
> piece size restriction but you can bet that somewhere someone has
instituted
> one-perhaps at a building department near you. Pay them a visit. It costs
> nothing to ask.
>
>
> Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Mon Jun  5 18:05:28 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: bragging
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 19:42:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Dear Master, Best of Show Dorothy. :o)

Congratulations!  

Where has Emeraldine been hiding lately?  Has Pierre got her locked up
somewhere?

Suzanne

Family Account wrote:
> 
> Hey, it's not the Nobel or Pulitzer or Stanley Cup....but yesterday at
> the Manchester Arts Association Arts and Crafts Fair, I won Best of Show
> in crafts.  Big blue ribbon and $150!
> 
> (But you know, after I got my MA, I could never get my co-workers to
> call me Master Dorothy.  I doubt if they'll call me Best of Show
> Dorothy, either!)
> 
> One more show to go this spring, then we're off for the summer.  I use
> *off* advisedly, since we're gong to buying batches of glass and making
> ahead on our old standbys (angels, crosses, nightlights, butterflies,
> roses) and developing new designs. (So I hear elephant collectors like
> trunks up as a sign of good luck.)
> 
> Dorothy
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Jun  5 18:32:27 2000
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Congrats!
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 21:10:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dorothy,
What can I say, congratulations.  How very nice.  But then I expect nothing
less of you.
Keep up the good work.
Linda Jo


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From owner-glass Mon Jun  5 20:33:22 2000
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From: gyu@iptokyo.filemaker.ne.jp
To: workingmen@iskcom.ru
Subject: yep
Date: Thu, 25 May 00 18:08:24 EST
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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 02:44:31 2000
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X-Path: arrakis.es!kiram
From: "Kira Mason" <kiram@arrakis.es>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Beach Glass
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:18:55 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bill,
It is going to the glass manufacturer and they are going to do it.  I am
going to go with my little babies there to "help and watch over them" since
this is the first time I have done this and don't know how they work.  The
contractor that is doing our house has assured me (after much instruction on
my part - thank god he is a delight to work with) that they have experience
in installing stained glass work this way.  If you want once I have watched
the operation I will post how exactly they did it.

Kira
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Preachome@aol.com <Preachome@aol.com>
Para: kiram@arrakis.es <kiram@arrakis.es>
Fecha: lunes 5 de junio de 2000 23:17
Asunto: Re: Beach Glass


>Kira,
>
> This is great.  I have a question.  How are you going to vacuum out the
air?  You mentioned that the piece is going to be 'vacuumed between a double
pane.
>
> Thank you.
> Bill
>


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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 08:08:31 2000
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From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Two Questions
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 06:28:21 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have two questions...

1)    After you apply wax etc. to the finished piece, you have to rub it off.  I use an old towel and follow behind with a q-tip.  It appears that the Q-tip does not get as close to the sodder line as I would like.  Do other people use deferent tolls or is this the best that it can get.

2)    About a year ago I found an downloaded a glass catalogue that had descriptions and pictures of all the glass from all the major companies.  Since then I sort of electrocuted my hard drive.  Now I cant use it.  I can not remember where I found the catalogue.  Does anyone know the site that I am trying to find.  The cataloged is only viewed in PDF. format.

Any response would be nice.

P.S. To the artist that won the first prize....  Where is the picture of said piece?  Hint Hint

___________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 09:09:50 2000
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X-Path: one.net!gwood
From: "Gregg Wood" <gwood@one.net>
To: "Glass @ Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:46:59 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

One of the tricks we use, (on our stuff and the student panels also) is to
use the liquid
spray on Turtle Wax.  It's cheap, its FAST (no wait for drying time) and
there's no
nasty 'cleaning the solder lines' issues since it doesn't cake up in the
corners.
Spray it on, towel it off.  Paper towels, terry cloth or a pair of old
underwear, it just
doesn't matter.  The finish is durable and the difference is amazing.  Most
of
our students give us _The Look_ when we tell them to wax the whole panel,
but
when it's done, they are consistently amazed.

-G

----- Original Message -----
From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 11:27 AM
Subject: Two Questions


> I have two questions...
>
> 1)    After you apply wax etc. to the finished piece, you have to rub it
off.  I use an old towel and follow behind with a q-tip.  It appears that
the Q-tip does not get as close to the sodder line as I would like.  Do
other people use deferent tolls or is this the best that it can get.
>
> 2)    About a year ago I found an downloaded a glass catalogue that had
descriptions and pictures of all the glass from all the major companies.
Since then I sort of electrocuted my hard drive.  Now I cant use it.  I can
not remember where I found the catalogue.  Does anyone know the site that I
am trying to find.  The cataloged is only viewed in PDF. format.
>
> Any response would be nice.
>
> P.S. To the artist that won the first prize....  Where is the picture of
said piece?  Hint Hint
>
> ___________________________________________________
> GO Network Mail
> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 09:12:45 2000
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Gryphon wire saw
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:39:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thank you to everyone who was so helpful on my request for information about
the Gryphon Saw.

I will keep you informed on my purchase.

my best,
pj

Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Member International Guild of Glass Artists
Associate Member AIA


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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 09:39:41 2000
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Two Questions
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:00:31 -0700 
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk



> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Garner [mailto:officerjqg@go.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 6:28 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Two Questions
> 
> 
> I have two questions...
> 
> 1)    After you apply wax etc. to the finished piece, you 
> have to rub it off.  I use an old towel and follow behind 
> with a q-tip.  It appears that the Q-tip does not get as 
> close to the sodder line as I would like.  Do other people 
> use deferent tolls or is this the best that it can get.

i used to use a wooden toothpick or a horseshoe nail, but i asked my dentist
for old picks that he was going to discard. they work much better.

regards,
charlie
phx, az
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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 11:26:55 2000
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Moya-Don
From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Beach Glass
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 01:33:25 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Kira,
Yes, I have used beach glass and shells and gravel and marbles and all kinds
of things in pieces I have done.  I am a great one to go to yard sales and
pick up old jewelry and use the beads and things in various projects.
Let the creative juices flow and have fun.
Moya

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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 12:07:03 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Two Questions
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:29:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

James, in answer to your first question, I too find a Q-Tip to be
ineffective.  I have been using a toothbrush with much better results.

Sorry I cannot help you with your second question other than to let you know
that Spectrum has a e-catalog of their glass available at
www.spectrumglass.com
Hope this helps.
Moya

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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 13:17:57 2000
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X-Path: lakeshore.net!sietsemas
From: "The Sietsemas" <sietsemas@lakeshore.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:20:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

 -----Original Message-----
 From: James Garner [mailto:officerjqg@go.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 6:28 AM
 To: glass@bungi.com
 Subject: Two Questions

Charlie says...

"i used to use a wooden toothpick or a horseshoe nail, but i asked my
dentist
for old picks that he was going to discard. they work much better."

I've found those same type of dental picks at a local hardware store for a
couple dollars.  They work great for getting into crevices.  Maybe your
local hardware store has them too?
Lee

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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 15:04:21 2000
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X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye
From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:43:18 CST 6CDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: GSA-ORSP
Precedence: bulk

Here in Chicago, I've found them (and hemostats and other neat 
stuff) at American Science & Surplus.  At the store you can 
choose your own, but through their website you can buy them 3 for 
$6, only they choose for you.  (See www.sciplus.com and go to 
"crafts, hobbies & tools," then medical and dental....)

Kaye 
-----------------------
I've found those same type of dental picks at a local hardware store for a
couple dollars.  They work great for getting into crevices.  Maybe your
local hardware store has them too?
Lee


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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 15:40:53 2000
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From: "Williams" <williams@nconnect.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:31:46 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0059_01BFCFD4.B53DB600
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2)    About a year ago I found an downloaded a glass catalogue that had =
descriptions and pictures of all the glass from all the major companies.

This is a site I give to customers when they ask that colors of glass =
can I use in their projects.  It seems to help.  It is:  =
http://www.delphiglass.com/prsg.html=20
I hope this helps.

A Touch of Glass
Kim Williams
williams@nconnect.com

------=_NextPart_000_0059_01BFCFD4.B53DB600
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>2)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; About a year ago I found an downloaded a glass =

catalogue that had descriptions and pictures of all the glass from all =
the major=20
companies.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This is a site I give to customers when they ask that colors of =
glass can I=20
use in their projects.&nbsp; It seems to help.&nbsp; It is:&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.delphiglass.com/prsg.html">http://www.delphiglass.com/=
prsg.html</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV>I hope this helps.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>A Touch of Glass<BR>Kim Williams<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:williams@nconnect.com">williams@nconnect.com</A></DIV></BO=
DY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0059_01BFCFD4.B53DB600--

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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 16:36:36 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "James Garner" <officerjqg@go.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Two Questions
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:16:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

to get into real tight areas i use a small nylon brush in my dremel. or a
toothpick. or a toothpick with cotton rolled over the end.


---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Garner [mailto:officerjqg@go.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 9:28 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Two Questions
>
>
> I have two questions...
>
> 1)    After you apply wax etc. to the finished piece, you have to
> rub it off.  I use an old towel and follow behind with a q-tip.
> It appears that the Q-tip does not get as close to the sodder
> line as I would like.  Do other people use deferent tolls or is
> this the best that it can get.
>
> 2)    About a year ago I found an downloaded a glass catalogue
> that had descriptions and pictures of all the glass from all the
> major companies.  Since then I sort of electrocuted my hard
> drive.  Now I cant use it.  I can not remember where I found the
> catalogue.  Does anyone know the site that I am trying to find.
> The cataloged is only viewed in PDF. format.
>
> Any response would be nice.
>
> P.S. To the artist that won the first prize....  Where is the
> picture of said piece?  Hint Hint
>
> ___________________________________________________
> GO Network Mail
> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 17:38:57 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "James Garner" <officerjqg@go.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Two Questions
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:16:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

to get into real tight areas i use a small nylon brush in my dremel. or a
toothpick. or a toothpick with cotton rolled over the end.


---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Garner [mailto:officerjqg@go.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 9:28 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Two Questions
>
>
> I have two questions...
>
> 1)    After you apply wax etc. to the finished piece, you have to
> rub it off.  I use an old towel and follow behind with a q-tip.
> It appears that the Q-tip does not get as close to the sodder
> line as I would like.  Do other people use deferent tolls or is
> this the best that it can get.
>
> 2)    About a year ago I found an downloaded a glass catalogue
> that had descriptions and pictures of all the glass from all the
> major companies.  Since then I sort of electrocuted my hard
> drive.  Now I cant use it.  I can not remember where I found the
> catalogue.  Does anyone know the site that I am trying to find.
> The cataloged is only viewed in PDF. format.
>
> Any response would be nice.
>
> P.S. To the artist that won the first prize....  Where is the
> picture of said piece?  Hint Hint
>
> ___________________________________________________
> GO Network Mail
> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 21:21:49 2000
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From: Kauriee@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:10:55 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 06/06/2000 4:19:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
sietsemas@lakeshore.net writes:

<< 
 Charlie says...
 
 "i used to use a wooden toothpick or a horseshoe nail, but i asked my
 dentist
 for old picks that he was going to discard. they work much better."
  >>

I have found that a small brush attachment in a dremel works like a DREAM!!

Kauriee
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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 21:34:14 2000
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X-Path: home.com!lorley
From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: wax
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 16:57:27 -0700
Message-ID: <20000607000321.VKUR11091.mail.rdc1.az.home.com@cx795941-a>
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--=====================_920675==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

When I wax a project I use a pointed wooden chopstick wrapped in a soft cloth.
I use that to trace around the solder lines.


I have two questions...
1) After you apply wax etc. to the finished piece, you have to rub it off. I
use an old towel and follow behind with a q-tip. It appears that the Q-tip
does
not get as close to the sodder line as I would like. Do other people use
deferent tolls or is this the best that it can get.


--=====================_920675==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
When I wax a project I use a pointed wooden chopstick wrapped in a soft
cloth. I use that to trace around the solder lines.<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size=3>I have two questions...<br>
1) After you apply wax etc. to the finished piece, you have to rub it
off. I use an old towel and follow behind with a q-tip. It appears that
the Q-tip does not get as close to the sodder line as I would like. Do
other people use deferent tolls or is this the best that it can 
get.<br>
</font><br>
</html>

--=====================_920675==_.ALT--

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From owner-glass Tue Jun  6 21:53:37 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Bobfuses
From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: lorley@home.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: wax
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 00:41:15 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 6/6/00 9:35:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lorley@home.com 
writes:
>  When I wax a project I use a pointed wooden chopstick wrapped in a soft 
> cloth. I use that to trace around the solder lines.

No, sharpened wooden chopsticks should be used to trace around lead cames 
after puttying to chase away the excess. Handy things and a good excuse for 
eating Chinese.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 01:21:50 2000
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X-Path: alimac.com!till8er
From: "Bev Kelly" <till8er@alimac.com>
To: "James Garner" <officerjqg@go.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:56:10 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

http://stainedglasswarehouse.com
 plus you need arobic reader, which you can download for free

Bev


----- Original Message -----
From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 6:28 AM
Subject: Two Questions


> I have two questions...
>
> 1)    After you apply wax etc. to the finished piece, you have to rub it
off.  I use an old towel and follow behind with a q-tip.  It appears that
the Q-tip does not get as close to the sodder line as I would like.  Do
other people use deferent tolls or is this the best that it can get.
>
> 2)    About a year ago I found an downloaded a glass catalogue that had
descriptions and pictures of all the glass from all the major companies.
Since then I sort of electrocuted my hard drive.  Now I cant use it.  I can
not remember where I found the catalogue.  Does anyone know the site that I
am trying to find.  The cataloged is only viewed in PDF. format.
>
> Any response would be nice.
>
> P.S. To the artist that won the first prize....  Where is the picture of
said piece?  Hint Hint
>
> ___________________________________________________
> GO Network Mail
> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com
>
>
> ----
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>

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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 06:03:13 2000
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Hey, I would't mind a photo, either!  
Dee

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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 06:03:44 2000
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From: RLR57@webtv.net (Robert Robson)
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Subject: Please do not send me any more mail
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 08:39:41 -0400 (EDT)
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regarding stain glass from anyone. Thank you.

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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 08:36:08 2000
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In a message dated 6/7/00 6:06:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, RLR57@webtv.net 
writes:

> regarding stain glass from anyone. Thank you.
>  
>  ----
>  For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>  To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>  Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

This is sad. Robert will continue to receive mail until he learns how to 
read. At the foot of every bungi message are instructions for subscription 
changes. Sending subscription changes to the list generates more UNWANTED 
mail.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 10:14:06 2000
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From: DebiH44@aol.com
To: Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:44:36 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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A toothbrush is what I use also. Seems to get into the nooks and cranneys 
(sounds like a muffin commercial,doesn't it?)                                 
                                        DebiH
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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 10:47:25 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Please do not send me any more mail
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:20:18 +0000
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> This is sad. Robert will continue to receive mail until he learns
> how to read. 

Actually, Glenna seems to routinely notice such requests and take 
care of them with no further fuss. As for reading, I have teen-age 
kids who seem to think that reading's something that was done in the  
Dark Ages. You know, the '60s and 70s?

I'm terribly dismayed myself by the low level of literacy (spelling 
and grammar) I see on the web, not just in casual e-mail or in groups 
like this, but on what appear to be expensive, high-end web sites. I 
used to send notes suggesting that I'd clean up their site for a 
couple of bucks, but the defensive flames received in return made it 
not worth the candle. <sigh>

These days, I figure, "Their glasswork's probably phenomenally 
beautiful and they're not pretending to be Tolstoy or something!" 
<grin> Besides, I've got flaws of my own and I can give references 
who'll back me up on that.

Albert

- - - - - - - - -

Watch out for the Honor Virus:

1. Delete all files on your hard disk.
2. E-mail everyone on your list, telling them to do the same.

Go ahead. We trust you.
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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 11:49:08 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Removing dried candle wax
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:58:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Anyone got some good advice for this person?

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:	Brenda M Duxbury, INTERNET:ddsc2@juno.com
To:	[unknown], INTERNET:info@igga.org
	=

Date:	06/07/2000 12:20 AM

RE:	IGGA Feedback
 =

Hi,
  Just wondering if any one knows how to remove dried candle wax from
glass, other than scaping and scrubbing it off?
             Thanks...Brenda=
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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 12:38:17 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Removing dried candle wax
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 14:09:14 -0500
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Seems like the easiest way would be razor blade.
I guess that would be considered Scraping though.
I ALWAYS keep razor blades in my tool box.

Suzanne

"Christie A. Wood" wrote:
> 
> Anyone got some good advice for this person?
> 
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA
> 
> -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
> 
> From:   Brenda M Duxbury, INTERNET:ddsc2@juno.com
> To:     [unknown], INTERNET:info@igga.org
>         =
> 
> Date:   06/07/2000 12:20 AM
> 
> RE:     IGGA Feedback
>  =
> 
> Hi,
>   Just wondering if any one knows how to remove dried candle wax from
> glass, other than scaping and scrubbing it off?
>              Thanks...Brenda=
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 12:56:53 2000
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Removing dried candle wax
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:33:24 +0000
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>   Just wondering if any one knows how to remove dried candle wax
>   from glass, other than scaping and scrubbing it off?

Scrubbing and scraping, instead? <grin> No, seriously, why not grab 
the hair dryer and play it on the wax whilst standing ready with a 
soft cloth or paper towel to wipe the wax off as it softens?

The wax will melt long before any metal, solder or glass is affected 
by the heat IMHO.

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 13:29:26 2000
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From: Dina and Don Hess <ddhess@bellsouth.net>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Removing dried candle wax
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 15:04:21 -0500
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If it's in a clump or droplet -- like a candle dripped on the glass --
the easiest way is to put the glass in the freezer for 10 minutes or
so.  The wax will usually come right off when I do that with my candle
holders.  Barring that, though, I second the vote for a razor blade.

d

Christie A. Wood wrote:
> 
> Anyone got some good advice for this person?
> 
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA
> 
> -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
> 
> From:   Brenda M Duxbury, INTERNET:ddsc2@juno.com
> To:     [unknown], INTERNET:info@igga.org
>         =
> 
> Date:   06/07/2000 12:20 AM
> 
> RE:     IGGA Feedback
>  =
> 
> Hi,
>   Just wondering if any one knows how to remove dried candle wax from
> glass, other than scaping and scrubbing it off?
>              Thanks...Brenda=
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 14:37:00 2000
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From: "Gay E Morrelli" <g.morrelli@worldnet.att.net>
To: <GLASS@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Candle wax...
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:09:52 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFD09A.D009AFE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

in the past ive put glass w/wax on it in the freezer and then just =
'popped or peeled' it off the glass.....  gay

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFD09A.D009AFE0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>in the past ive put glass w/wax on =
it in the=20
freezer and then just 'popped or peeled' it off the glass.....&nbsp;=20
gay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFD09A.D009AFE0--

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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 15:13:41 2000
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
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Subject: Glass Visions / Tiffany Lamp exhibit
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 17:44:20 -0400
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Well, I just got around to registering John and myself.  $15
now....hmmm, ought to be some hot dogs!
I am going to PA next week to visit family and we decided to go through
Allentown and stop at Warner-Criv on the way, as well, since there are
some glasses they keep in stock that my local supplier would have to
special order.  Also there's this German restaurant in the Lehigh Valley
Mall that John loves, so we're aiming for arriving in Allentown for
lunch!

You know, I've had a fairly successful spring and I've been too busy to
talk to Emeraldine much.  That ought to change in a couple of weeks.

I saw on the Mark Twain House websight that they are having a free
exhibit of two dozen Tiffany lamps, stained glass pieces and vases not
usually on display.  This includes Dragonfly, Lily, and California
Poppy  The exhibit in in the visitor's center and runs through Oct. 31.
So if you are in the Hartford CT area, you might want to check it out.
(It does cost $$$ to tour the house, which was decorated by Tiffany's
interior design firm.)  http://www.hartnet.org/twain/coming.htm
Hope to get there myself by July.

Dorothy






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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 15:24:18 2000
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From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Removing dried candle wax
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:58:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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Put it in the freezer.


Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Member International Guild of Glass Artists
Associate Member AIA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 1:58 PM
Subject: Removing dried candle wax


> Anyone got some good advice for this person?
>
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA
>
> -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
>
> From: Brenda M Duxbury, INTERNET:ddsc2@juno.com
> To: [unknown], INTERNET:info@igga.org
> =
>
> Date: 06/07/2000 12:20 AM
>
> RE: IGGA Feedback
>  =
>
> Hi,
>   Just wondering if any one knows how to remove dried candle wax from
> glass, other than scaping and scrubbing it off?
>              Thanks...Brenda=
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 15:47:31 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Removing dried candle wax
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 17:56:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

hot (boiling) water works well. i think there are some chemicals around that
disolve it... OOPS may be one of them. the hot water thing should work,
maybe slowly dipping it in a pan, as not to shock it.


---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christie A. Wood [mailto:Ensembles@compuserve.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 1:58 PM
> To: Bungi
> Subject: Removing dried candle wax
>
>
> Anyone got some good advice for this person?
>
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA
>
> -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
>
> From:	Brenda M Duxbury, INTERNET:ddsc2@juno.com
> To:	[unknown], INTERNET:info@igga.org
> 	=
>
> Date:	06/07/2000 12:20 AM
>
> RE:	IGGA Feedback
>  =
>
> Hi,
>   Just wondering if any one knows how to remove dried candle wax from
> glass, other than scaping and scrubbing it off?
>              Thanks...Brenda=
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 15:57:11 2000
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Candle wax...
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 23:22:51 +0100
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000607232251.007b7a80@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Or if it is tallow - the flux used when making traditional leaded windows -
the action of cementing and cleaning usually removes this.  If not a cloth
dipped in white spirit will remove it.

Regards
Elizabeth in Bournemouth


Bournemouth Stained Glass
790 Wimborne Road
Bournemouth
Dorset
BH9 2DX
Tel : 00 44 1202 514734
Fax : 00 44 1202 250239
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 16:02:54 2000
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From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: <DebiH44@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Two Questions
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 17:54:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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oh man... i hope not...  ;)


---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: DebiH44@aol.com [mailto:DebiH44@aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 12:45 PM
> To: Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net; glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Two Questions
>
>
> A toothbrush is what I use also. Seems to get into the nooks and cranneys
> (sounds like a muffin commercial,doesn't it?)
>
>                                         DebiH
> ----
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>

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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 16:22:41 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Removing dried candle wax
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 17:01:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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Are you talking about removing wax from candle holders?

It just dawned on me with all the talk about putting it in the
freezer...Im thinking..."geeze, I dont make anything small enough to go
in the freezer."  ;o)  I forget we all do different things! ;o)

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 17:13:21 2000
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From: "Williams" <williams@nconnect.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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If the piece is to big for the freezer try placing ice cubes on the wax =
to really harden it then pry it up using a razor.

A Touch of Glass
Kim Williams
williams@nconnect.com

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<DIV>If the piece is to big for the freezer try placing ice cubes on the =
wax to=20
really harden it then pry it up using a razor.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>A Touch of Glass<BR>Kim Williams<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:williams@nconnect.com">williams@nconnect.com</A></DIV></BO=
DY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 18:01:31 2000
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!g.morrelli
From: "Gay E Morrelli" <g.morrelli@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Removing dried candle wax
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:59:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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sorry albert, i had deleted the original letter w/the question about the
candle wax.... in the past i have put glass in the freezer and then just
'popped or peeled' it off....
gay

-----Original Message-----
From: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Removing dried candle wax


>
>>   Just wondering if any one knows how to remove dried candle wax
>>   from glass, other than scaping and scrubbing it off?
>
>Scrubbing and scraping, instead? <grin> No, seriously, why not grab
>the hair dryer and play it on the wax whilst standing ready with a
>soft cloth or paper towel to wipe the wax off as it softens?
>
>The wax will melt long before any metal, solder or glass is affected
>by the heat IMHO.
>
>Albert
>----
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From owner-glass Wed Jun  7 19:33:33 2000
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From: "Robert Crane" <robertcrane@thezone.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: source for beveled glass
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 23:49:06 -0230
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Does any of our group have a source for custom bevels in Canada ? Thanks =
for any help in anticipation.

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does any of our group have a source for =
custom=20
bevels in Canada ? Thanks for any help in=20
anticipation.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Jun  8 11:03:57 2000
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X-Path: hotmail.com!dwpbor
From: "Alcor Mizar" <dwpbor@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Lead Question
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 05:18:12 PDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Is there a lead hazard to infants, if a "leaded" glass object is hanging
on the wall?

Is "lead free solder" difficult to work with?  (if you know what I mean)
________________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  8 12:46:25 2000
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X-Path: bellsouth.net!ddhess
From: Dina and Don Hess <ddhess@bellsouth.net>
To: Alcor Mizar <dwpbor@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Lead Question
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:38:51 -0500
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I asked my pediatrician about this recently, as well, and she confirmed
what I already believed to be the case.  It's not a hazard as long as
it's out of reach of the child, but the child should never be allowed to
mouth the lead, and ideally shouldn't touch it.  And a child in a
household that does stained glass should be carefully kept out of the
leadworking area so they can't put any solder bits or anything else in
their mouths, and have the blood test for lead levels at their annual
exams, just to be sure.  And of course, parents should always wash their
hands carefully after working with lead (like all of us should anyway!)
But if proper precautions are taken, there shouldn't be any danger!

d

Alcor Mizar wrote:
> 
> Is there a lead hazard to infants, if a "leaded" glass object is hanging
> on the wall?
> 
> Is "lead free solder" difficult to work with?  (if you know what I mean)
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  8 15:03:16 2000
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: bragging
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:52:07 -0700 (PDT)
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Way to go!  Now that we know you're Best of Show...what was the item that
got you the prize.  You may have mentioned it but guess I missed out.
Peggy

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From owner-glass Thu Jun  8 15:24:48 2000
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X-Path: arrakis.es!kiram
From: "Kira Mason" <kiram@arrakis.es>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Removing dried candle wax
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 13:05:19 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I always put it under really hot running water.  But that is in the case of
my many candle holders that always get wax on them.  Some of them ceramic
and some of them glass.  It, the wax, just runs right off.
Kira
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Christie A. Wood <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Para: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Fecha: miércoles 7 de junio de 2000 20:50
Asunto: Removing dried candle wax


>Anyone got some good advice for this person?
>
>Christie A. Wood
>North Wales, PA USA
>
>-------------Forwarded Message-----------------
>
>From: Brenda M Duxbury, INTERNET:ddsc2@juno.com
>To: [unknown], INTERNET:info@igga.org
> =
>
>Date: 06/07/2000 12:20 AM
>
>RE: IGGA Feedback
> =
>
>Hi,
>  Just wondering if any one knows how to remove dried candle wax from
>glass, other than scaping and scrubbing it off?
>             Thanks...Brenda=
>----
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  8 17:06:19 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Removing dried candle wax
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:16:54 +0000
Message-ID: <200006082313.TAA24649@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> I always put it under really hot running water.  But that is in the
> case of my many candle holders that always get wax on them.  Some of
> them ceramic and some of them glass.  It, the wax, just runs right
> off.

Whew! I'm glad to hear you say that, Kira, because I suggested heat, 
then someone said "put it in the freezer" - which made perfect sense 
to me, but I thought I should blush for not having thought of *that!

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  8 19:45:45 2000
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X-Path: voyager.net!glasscat
From: "Carolyn" <glasscat@voyager.net>
To: "Gregg Wood" <gwood@one.net>, "Glass @ Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 21:37:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Gregg: I was looking at the spray-on Turtle Wax a while back, and read on
the back that it wasn't recommended for use on glass. (Anyone know why?) I
use the paste form (it doesn't have that warning) and get great results. I
wrap a paper towel around the end of an X-Acto knife and just run along the
edge of the solder.
Carolyn
 glasscat@voyager.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg Wood" <gwood@one.net>
To: "Glass @ Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: Two Questions


> One of the tricks we use, (on our stuff and the student panels also) is to
> use the liquid
> spray on Turtle Wax.  It's cheap, its FAST (no wait for drying time) and
> there's no
> nasty 'cleaning the solder lines' issues since it doesn't cake up in the
> corners.
> Spray it on, towel it off.  Paper towels, terry cloth or a pair of old
> underwear, it just
> doesn't matter.  The finish is durable and the difference is amazing.
Most
> of
> our students give us _The Look_ when we tell them to wax the whole panel,
> but
> when it's done, they are consistently amazed.
>
> -G
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
> To: <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 11:27 AM
> Subject: Two Questions
>
>
> > I have two questions...
> >
> > 1)    After you apply wax etc. to the finished piece, you have to rub it
> off.  I use an old towel and follow behind with a q-tip.  It appears that
> the Q-tip does not get as close to the sodder line as I would like.  Do
> other people use deferent tolls or is this the best that it can get.
> >
> > 2)    About a year ago I found an downloaded a glass catalogue that had
> descriptions and pictures of all the glass from all the major companies.
> Since then I sort of electrocuted my hard drive.  Now I cant use it.  I
can
> not remember where I found the catalogue.  Does anyone know the site that
I
> am trying to find.  The cataloged is only viewed in PDF. format.
> >
> > Any response would be nice.
> >
> > P.S. To the artist that won the first prize....  Where is the picture of
> said piece?  Hint Hint
> >
> > ___________________________________________________
> > GO Network Mail
> > Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com
> >
> >
> > ----
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> >
> >
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  8 20:42:24 2000
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From: "cheryl zipf" <glassgirl@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: re lead 
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 21:37:19 -0700
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YES all lead even in the smallest of dust particals can cause =
retardation in infants and small children .  children should not be =
aloud in the shop and all panels should be sealed with wax or a patina =
to stop lead dust.



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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>YES all lead even in the smallest of =
dust particals=20
can cause retardation in infants and small children&nbsp;.&nbsp; =
children should=20
not be aloud in the shop and all panels should be sealed with wax or a =
patina to=20
stop lead dust.</FONT></DIV>
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  8 21:47:18 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Yikes - need patina help
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 00:02:23 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

I just patinaed a panel (the back side thank heavens) using Jax Brown
for copper, brass, and solder.  Basically I did what I'd do with Jax
copper plating:  used Bronzo (like steel wool only bronze) on a portion,
wiped the little bits of the Bronzo off, put the patina on, rubbed
another section, wiped it,  Went back to the first section, wiped the
patina off and rerubbed it, wiped it, applied another coat of patina,
went to the next section, etc.  So after it was all done I noticed that
wherever I had opalescent, especially light carmel Spectrum and some
unidentified pale to mint green, probably also Spectrum, little flecks
of the Bronzo filings (which had turned brown) seemed to have welded
themselves to the glass.  That didn't happen to the transparent, wispy,
or beveled sections (thank heaven for small favors).

The glass was clean when I started - no wax.  I tried Palmolive dish
soap and a brush.  I tried 99% alcohol.  I tried classic Windex.  I
tried steel wool and all three liquids.  I tried a razor blade.  I just
worked on three pieces for 15 minutes and it may be marginally better,
but not much.  If I do much more the patina will be gone, but the darned
things will still be there.

It won't matter so much since it is on the back, but I sure don't want
the front to look like that!  Should I have used steel wool instead of
the Bronzo?  Should I not have buffed the solder at all?  Should I paint
the Jax on with a Q-tip or an art brush, instead of having used a
toothbrush, so I don't get any patina on the glass (won't that be fun)?

I'd like to finish cleaning it , and tomorrow night flip it and start on
the front, so any help you can give me will be appreciated.  Thanks -
Cec



--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Egyptian Pattern Wanted
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:54:36 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey Gang,
Does anyone have or know of a website that I can get some Egyptian
patterns.  One of my co-workers would like something made, she's not
particular as long as it is Egyptian themed.

Thanks in advance, I know you always come through.

Caren

________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Thu Jun  8 23:58:46 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Charlie Spitzer
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 23:22:48 -0500
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Please email me.
thanks

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 04:44:15 2000
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From: lee tollett <leetollett1@home.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Egyptian Pattern Wanted
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 05:37:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi everyone
    I too would like to have some Egyptian patterns.  My wife collects
any thing Egyption.
Have a nice day you all....  Lee

mschatee@juno.com wrote:

> Hey Gang,
> Does anyone have or know of a website that I can get some Egyptian
> patterns.  One of my co-workers would like something made, she's not
> particular as long as it is Egyptian themed.
>
> Thanks in advance, I know you always come through.
>
> Caren
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
> Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
> Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 06:38:11 2000
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From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com
To: glassgirl@mindspring.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: re lead 
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:27:47 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

it seems to me that if lead in paint was dangerous to children (not all 
children chew on the windowsill) there has to be a connection with particles 
present in the air. No matter how many times we dust a ray of sunshine 
clearly indicates we never get it all and wouldn't dust particles carry lead 
in if it was resting on it?  Just a thought.
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 09:32:49 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: re lead 
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:23:00 +0000
Message-ID: <200006091420.KAA07239@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> it seems to me that if lead in paint was dangerous to children (not
> all children chew on the windowsill) there has to be a connection
> with particles present in the air. No matter how many times we dust
> a ray of sunshine clearly indicates we never get it all and wouldn't
> dust particles carry lead in if it was resting on it?

But it's the lead-based paint that children *chew that causes the 
problems. <smile> And a suncatcher or window or kitchen cabinet 
insert made with lead or copper foil and lead-based solder ... or 
any object made with lead ... develops a darker surface that's lead 
oxide, at which point oxidation ceases and the lead is protected. Of 
course, too, so many people nowadays coat their finished work with 
wax that the lead is "encapsulated" and thus out of circulation. 
That's the same way lead-based paint can be treated: cover it with a 
coat of non-lead-based paint that meets the lead-free requirements 
and it's "encapsulated," removed from circulation, cut off from any 
contact with kids (or adults) and thus "safe." (This week.)

'Course, there are *lots of other sources of lead in the air, 
internal combustion engines for the most part, and even though that's 
better since the introduction of lead-free gasoline, not all vehicles 
are required to *use lead-free gasoline and some vehicles *can't 
(yet). But as I pointed out yesterday, anything that reduces lead in 
the environment, particularly kids' enviornment, is a Good Thing (to 
quote Martha).

I'm wondering, though, why not obviate the whole question and get the 
stained glass thingamabob outta the kid's bedroom!? <grin>

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 09:39:59 2000
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X-Path: voyager.net!glasscat
From: "Carolyn" <glasscat@voyager.net>
To: "lee tollett" <leetollett1@home.com>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Egyptian Pattern Wanted
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:22:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Check out a book called "Pattern Book of Egyptian Designs" by Will Fraser
(1997).
Carolyn
glasscat@voyager.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "lee tollett" <leetollett1@home.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: Egyptian Pattern Wanted


> Hi everyone
>     I too would like to have some Egyptian patterns.  My wife collects
> any thing Egyption.
> Have a nice day you all....  Lee
>
> mschatee@juno.com wrote:
>
> > Hey Gang,
> > Does anyone have or know of a website that I can get some Egyptian
> > patterns.  One of my co-workers would like something made, she's not
> > particular as long as it is Egyptian themed.
> >
> > Thanks in advance, I know you always come through.
> >
> > Caren
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
> > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
> > Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
> > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 10:18:39 2000
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: SGriffiSBG@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: re lead
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 11:22:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Yes.  That's why you are supposed to *wet* dust when you have lead
paint, or wet mop when cleaning the studio...to keep from kicking up
lead dust.

Suzanne

SGriffiSBG@aol.com wrote:
> 
> it seems to me that if lead in paint was dangerous to children (not all
> children chew on the windowsill) there has to be a connection with particles
> present in the air. No matter how many times we dust a ray of sunshine
> clearly indicates we never get it all and wouldn't dust particles carry lead
> in if it was resting on it?  Just a thought.
> ----
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> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 10:19:07 2000
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:08:27 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: FW: Removing dried candle wax
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:03:32 -0700 
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

and where exactly is that wax resolidify?

regards,
charlie
phx, az

-----Original Message-----
From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 12:17 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Removing dried candle wax



> I always put it under really hot running water.  But that is in the
> case of my many candle holders that always get wax on them.  Some of
> them ceramic and some of them glass.  It, the wax, just runs right
> off.

Whew! I'm glad to hear you say that, Kira, because I suggested heat, 
then someone said "put it in the freezer" - which made perfect sense 
to me, but I thought I should blush for not having thought of *that!

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 10:42:05 2000
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X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz
From: "Elaine" <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: TurtleWax spray
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:25:23 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

A TurtleWax quality control gal said if the container says not to use on glass,
it's because it will make a nasty, smeary, streaky, greasy mess. I think she said
oily, too. I read the product name right off the label thinking maybe we're
talking about different products, also said I'm using it for a non-automotive
application. She said the same thing again. Guess they're just covering their
tracks. Elaine


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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 10:47:52 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Looking for Joel Wallach
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:46:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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If anyone has any information about getting in contact with
Joel Wallach, would they please send John Riess an email
at dover@inch.com?  Thanks.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:	INTERNET:dover@inch.com, INTERNET:dover@inch.com
To:	[unknown], ensembles
Date:	06/08/2000 11:40 AM
 =

Greetings:

        For consultation on a literary matter, we are interested in
contacting Joel Wallach, author of PATTERNS & DESIGNS IN STAINED GLASS.
We would be grateful if you could provide us with any suggestions as to
how we might contact him. Many thanks in advance for any assistance you
can offer.

Best regards,

John Riess
DOVER PUBLICATIONS, INC.=
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 11:34:52 2000
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X-Path: one.net!kleeman
From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: question about tents ... not totally glass related
Date: Fri Jun  9 10:09:15 2000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: taylor'd Expressions
Precedence: bulk

i have a question about brands of tents/canopies ... and i am going to be
displaying glass in the tent at art shows .. this IS glass related .. delete
if you are not interested .. and make all flaming to me personally, so i can
delete it ..

question is .. has anyone bought and used the Flourish Arch Dome Canopy?  i
was all set to buy a Craft Hut, and the pricing on the Flourish seems to be
really good ..

and if you would like to send me the information privately, that is fine ...
i don't want to upset any one ..

thanx
debbie


kleeman@one.net
513. 870.9773
fax: 513.870.9785
Stampin' up! Demonstrator - mailto: kleeman@one.net
Fuller Brush Ind Rep - http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/fullerbrush
Stained Glass Supplies - http://taylordexpressions.com





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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 16:26:12 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: TurtleWax spray
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:49:45 +0000
Message-ID: <200006091746.NAA05284@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> A TurtleWax quality control gal said if the container says not to
> use on glass, it's because it will make a nasty, smeary, streaky,
> greasy mess.

When that was mentioned earlier today, I wondered if what they had in 
mind wasn't people who wanted to make the picture window in their 
living room really, really shiny! ?  Wax certainly wouldn't be what 
I'd use on *my windows, but translucent/opaque/opalescent glass might 
not be a problem, dunno.

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 16:26:15 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Egyptian Pattern Wanted
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:46:05 +0000
Message-ID: <200006091743.NAA02710@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> Check out a book called "Pattern Book of Egyptian Designs" by Will
> Fraser

I found another one on http://aiap.com/search.htm ... entered 
"Egyptian designs" turned up "Egyptian Designs Stained Glass Coloring 
Book" by John Green (85 cents can't be bad!). <smile

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 16:27:46 2000
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: question about tents ... not totally glass related
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 16:47:00 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000609164658.00779ed0@pop.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk

I'd be interested in this as well.  I'm about to go back nto the craft
circuit and was looking at an EZ Up.
Dee
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 16:27:56 2000
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From: Kristin <onepassion_2000@yahoo.com>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: remove me from your list
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 07:04:19 -0700 (PDT)
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pls remove me from your list thx


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 17:30:58 2000
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: removal from list
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 20:00:37 EDT
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please remove me from your list, thankyou

JEFFREY
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 17:35:50 2000
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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:55:11 EDT
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please remove me from your list  thanks
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 18:04:04 2000
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From: Gillian Higson <tandg.higson@sympatico.ca>
To: Carolyn <glasscat@voyager.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Egyptian Pattern Wanted
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 18:53:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@l.pop50.bellglobal.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All
I hope this gets out because I seem to be having trouble sending to the
group.
There is a really good web site on Egypt  at
eyelid.ukonline.co.uk/ancient/egypt.htm.
If there is nothing there to interest you ,he has lots of links that may.
Regards
Gillian

Carolyn wrote:

> Check out a book called "Pattern Book of Egyptian Designs" by Will Fraser
> (1997).
> Carolyn
> glasscat@voyager.net
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lee tollett" <leetollett1@home.com>
> To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 6:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Egyptian Pattern Wanted
>
> > Hi everyone
> >     I too would like to have some Egyptian patterns.  My wife collects
> > any thing Egyption.
> > Have a nice day you all....  Lee
> >
> > mschatee@juno.com wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Gang,
> > > Does anyone have or know of a website that I can get some Egyptian
> > > patterns.  One of my co-workers would like something made, she's not
> > > particular as long as it is Egyptian themed.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance, I know you always come through.
> > >
> > > Caren
> > >
> > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
> > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
> > > Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
> > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> > ----
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> >
>
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 18:31:19 2000
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From: "Leroy Pittman" <ljpiii@trellis.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Mosiac Help
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 21:08:01 -0400
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My wife and daughter-in-law decided to take up the hobby of mosaics. =
Everything was going fine until a few days after they completed several =
pieces. They followed the directions on the grout, cement, sealant, etc. =
but the items have begun to peel and crack. Can anyone help them out so =
I can go fishing again.=20

Thanks.

Leroy Pittman=20

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>My wife and daughter-in-law decided to take up the =
hobby of=20
mosaics. Everything was going fine until a few days after they completed =
several=20
pieces. They followed the directions on the grout, cement, sealant, etc. =
but the=20
items&nbsp;have begun to peel and crack. Can anyone help them out so I =
can go=20
fishing again.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Leroy Pittman</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 19:30:36 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Egyptian Pattern Wanted
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 21:19:29 +0000
Message-ID: <200006100116.VAA18562@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> eyelid.ukonline.co.uk/ancient/egypt.htm.

Thanks, Gillian! I've always been interested in things Egyptian and 
this is a great site ... although it seems to have moved to 
http://www.eyelid.co.uk/  Very cool! Almost as nice a walking into 
the Egyptian tomb at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. 
Those Egyptians had a sense of time that's closest to the Eternal 
that I've ever experienced.

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Jun  9 20:30:38 2000
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From: "Colin Pinker" <charcol@iafrica.com>
To: "glass bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Help and Inspiration
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:49:00 +0200
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I am new at stained glass and have only made 7 lamps (leaded) so far.  I =
really love the work but cannot find inspiration from the few books that =
I have managed to get hold of here.  I stay in Nelspruit, Republic of =
South Africa, about 4 hours drive from the city of Johannesburg.  There =
are very few glass outlets that I know of and the one shop that I do =
support has a limited selection of glass and new ideas.  I am keen to =
try a panel, but don't know how or where to start.  At his stage, =
unfortunately, I still have to "steal" with my eyes.  If anyone is =
prepared to guide and help - it would be much appreciated.

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</HEAD>
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am new at stained glass and have =
only made 7=20
lamps (leaded) so far.&nbsp; I really love the work but cannot find =
inspiration=20
from the few books that I have managed to get hold of here.&nbsp; I stay =
in=20
Nelspruit, Republic of South Africa, about 4 hours drive from the city =
of=20
Johannesburg.&nbsp; There are very few glass outlets that I know of and =
the one=20
shop that I do support has a limited selection of glass and new =
ideas.&nbsp; I=20
am keen to try a panel, but don't know how or where to start.&nbsp; At =
his=20
stage, unfortunately, I still have to &quot;steal&quot; with my =
eyes.&nbsp; If=20
anyone is prepared to guide and help - it would be much=20
appreciated.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sat Jun 10 00:02:32 2000
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X-Path: bright.net!arasai
From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Turtle Wax
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 02:31:27 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi all,
    Actually, the reason that Turtle Wax Co. people don't want the wax put
on glass, is because some dummy out there will apply it liberally to their
windshield, run right out and smash up their car, then sue the pants off the
cute little turtle people! You could say they don't want to end up in a
"glass-action" lawsuit! <grin>
    Okay, I heard everyone groan, but maybe I heard you smile, too!
    Wayyy past my bedtime! Night all!
Sarah

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From owner-glass Sat Jun 10 08:32:06 2000
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From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
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Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 06:07:14 -0700 (PDT)
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I to would be interested.  Last week I did an outdoor show and forgot to use sunscreen.  I am still sheding skin off the top of my head.

                                         James



___________________________________________________
GO Network Mail                                    
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com


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From owner-glass Sat Jun 10 20:45:14 2000
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Please change my email address to AGlassWorks@juno.com.

Thanks.
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From owner-glass Sun Jun 11 05:28:43 2000
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Moya-Don
From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:16:03 -0400
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Colin,
There are wonderful sites for patterns at www.members.aol.com/sgbds/free and
Mike Savad's web site www.geocities.com/paris/1141/index.html
Good Luck
Moya

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From owner-glass Sun Jun 11 08:33:22 2000
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From: Nancy B Gildersleeve <nbg3755@juno.com>
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Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:22:44 -0700
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Dee, Debby et al--

I'd like to know about canopies for shows as well, cost, ease of
assembly, etc.  Could responders post to the list?  I imagine there is a
good number of us who do shows and would like ideas on shelters and also
display props.

I have an EZ-Up and while it is much better that the previous shelter it
has drawbacks.  It really requires a second person to get it up and it is
light.  It needs some sort of weight system to hold it in place on a
windy day.  The cost (with 4 side panels) was about $200.  The sides hold
to the frame with strips of velcro, not as secure as the zipper sides on
some shelters.

Nancy G in FL

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From owner-glass Sun Jun 11 09:02:21 2000
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From: Gillian Higson <tandg.higson@sympatico.ca>
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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Subject: Re: Egyptian Pattern Wanted
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:04:27 -0500
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Hi Albert and All
I just had a thought that the British Museum might yield something
interesting too. I do not have their www but I'm sure it is easy to get
to>smile<
Regards
Gillian

Albert Lewis wrote:

> > eyelid.ukonline.co.uk/ancient/egypt.htm.
>
> Thanks, Gillian! I've always been interested in things Egyptian and
> this is a great site ... although it seems to have moved to
> http://www.eyelid.co.uk/  Very cool! Almost as nice a walking into
> the Egyptian tomb at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.
> Those Egyptians had a sense of time that's closest to the Eternal
> that I've ever experienced.
>
> Albert
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Jun 11 10:32:33 2000
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X-Path: gulfnet.pinc.com!Mark_Lauckner
From: Mark_Lauckner@gulfnet.pinc.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text
Subject: torch making video ready
Date: 11 Jun 2000 16:45:18 GMT
Message-ID: <417857534.185976812@gulfnet.pinc.com>
Organization: GulfNet-Galiano,BC,Canada,V0N-1P0
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The video demonstrating custom torch making techniques is now ready.

The first section of the tape describes conventional torch & burner
technologies and then describes surface mix technology.  The second section
is a demonstration of the full design and assembly of a medium-sized bench
mounted surface mix torch, emphasizing the versatility of custom design.  The
third section demonstrates the design and building of a hand-held surface mix
torch which adapts to a modified cutting torch assembly.  The advantage of
this hand held torch is that it uses no oxygen while idle.  The use of this
torch is then demonstrated providing even heat during the pulling of
millifiori cane.

All that is required to make these torches is a two small needle valves, some
thin brass tubes and a handfull of threaded pipe fittings.  The diameter of
pipe and number of tubes used determines the volume of gas delivery and torch
"size".  The average cost is around $30 in parts per torch.

The performance of these torches is not quite as good as the best commercial
torches, but the flexibility of custom design and the low cost makes them an
attractive alternative for those who like to cut costs, customize their
workstations, or build their own gear.

Please note:  The videos that I have been producing are home-spun efforts and
are not polished fancy video productions.  The emphasis is on access to
information, resources and technologies for hot glass work.  I found video to
be the best "delivery method" for this information.  I have been building
these torches for use in bead making classes and in my own studio, and
thought the design and technology was worth sharing with the hot glass
community.

The length of the video is 1 hour and 15 minutes, and the cost is $28.00, I
pay postage.  Please pre-pay by international postal money order, bank draft
or personal check.

Mark Lauckner
C-19 Bayview Drive
Mayne Island, BC
Canada  V0N-2J0
Mark_Lauckner@gulfnet.pinc.com


The next video is currently being produced.  It is on the custom design and
building of a tabletop bead kiln which pre-heats rods and has a pick-up plate
"drawer" for preheating or reheating preassembled parts or decorations.  The
interior is also large enough to do small glass fusing projects (6-1/2" x
18"), but is mainly intended for bead annealing.  The kiln draws 7 amps, can
plug in anywhere, and contains no fiber products.   This video should be
ready within the next couple months.  It was actually a great topic to
include on the torch video, but there wasn't enough room on the tape for both
projects.

Mark Lauckner
Mayne Island Glass Foundry & Gallery
Mayne Island, BC Canada
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 00:06:12 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Torch making video
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 23:55:10 -0400
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Mark,
Is that $28 per video in Canadian dollars?
Moya

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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 06:35:16 2000
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From: vern sila <vsila@uswest.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: came
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 21:14:29 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I'm looking for some 3/16" came with a smooth crown (not
with ridges).  Any knowledge who a supplier would be?

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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 09:06:03 2000
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X-Path: 4esc.com!SAmt
From: Sonya Amt <SAmt@4esc.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Signing your art and indoor fountains
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:45:07 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I need your opinion.  Do any of you sign you artwork and how do you do that?
I do panels for the most part and am beginning to sell them.  With a
marketing background, I know it would be good business to sign my pieces.  I
thought of going to Things Remembered - an engraving store -  and getting a
small name plate engraved with maybe the piece's name, my name and company
name - then soldering it onto the piece.   But what is appropriate  - just
my name?  Dare I say a phone number?  

My next question/problem is this.... I have a project stuck in my head (you
know- one of those that you actually think about how you would do it 24
hours a day) and need some guidance. I am in the process of designing an
indoor fountain.  I have a vision in my head of a three dimension stained
glass tree with leaves.  The fountain tubing would go up the trunk of the
tree and then spray out the top of the tree like rain through the leaves.  I
don't want to mosaic the project because I want a light go through the
entire piece plus a like seeing the different textures of glass.  My
question is this...in order to make this project I think I would build it
like you would build a lamp - using a mold or something to lay the pieces on
so that I could solder them together.  I also want to control this
mold/guide so that I can adjust the irregularity of the shape, because trees
are very gnarly (do you like my terminology).  Have any of you made a mold
or guide like this and how did you do it?  Also does anyone have any
experience making fountains?  

Thank you for all your help!

SONYA 






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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 09:30:16 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: vsila@uswest.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: came
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:58:49 EDT
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In a message dated 6/12/00 6:36:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, vsila@uswest.net 
writes:

> I'm looking for some 3/16" came with a smooth crown (not
>  with ridges).  Any knowledge who a supplier would be?
>  
3/16 inch flat H lead is a common product that most any supplier will have. 
Flat lead comes in at least five sizes ranging up to 3/4 inch. It is often 
used in church work.

Ridged lead is commonly called round H and comes in at least ten sizes.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 09:58:20 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Charlee3
From: Charlee3@aol.com
To: SAmt@4esc.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Plotter
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:39:41 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am looking for sources to buy plotters...any ideas?????
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 10:28:31 2000
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Signing your art and indoor fountains
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:09:20 -0400
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The whole difference between construction
and creation is exactly this: that a thing
constructed can only be loved after it is
constructed; but a thing created is loved
before it exists.

Charles Dickens

why don't you build a fiberglass mold, cut it in sections and coat with
tacky wax, as if you are doing a regular lamp. you can get the fiberglass
mold casting and other supplies at a good hobby/crafts store.
Dee
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 13:03:39 2000
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From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: molds
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:01:16 -0400
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a mold is made in any shape you want...clay, plaster, what ever.  then you
coat it with the fiberglass casting resin.  My husband gets the stuff from
a hobby shop that sell to model railroaders for making thier mountains,
etc. directions are on it.  I imagine you could get it by the gallon in a
boat repair area. Anyway remove it from the mold and you then have a
lightweight shell to use, sand it, cut it, whatever, then coat it with wax
and procede as with a preformed mold you would purchase.  you can create
all the lumps and bumps you like!

>
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 14:32:21 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "Sonya Amt" <SAmt@4esc.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Signing your art and indoor fountains
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:10:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

check out the tips section on my page http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ i
think i stuck in a section on how i sign my work...



---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sonya Amt [mailto:SAmt@4esc.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 11:45 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Signing your art and indoor fountains
>
>
> I need your opinion.  Do any of you sign you artwork and how do
> you do that?
> I do panels for the most part and am beginning to sell them.  With a
> marketing background, I know it would be good business to sign my
> pieces.  I
> thought of going to Things Remembered - an engraving store -  and
> getting a
> small name plate engraved with maybe the piece's name, my name and company
> name - then soldering it onto the piece.   But what is appropriate  - just
> my name?  Dare I say a phone number?
>
> My next question/problem is this.... I have a project stuck in my
> head (you
> know- one of those that you actually think about how you would do it 24
> hours a day) and need some guidance. I am in the process of designing an
> indoor fountain.  I have a vision in my head of a three dimension stained
> glass tree with leaves.  The fountain tubing would go up the trunk of the
> tree and then spray out the top of the tree like rain through the
> leaves.  I
> don't want to mosaic the project because I want a light go through the
> entire piece plus a like seeing the different textures of glass.  My
> question is this...in order to make this project I think I would build it
> like you would build a lamp - using a mold or something to lay
> the pieces on
> so that I could solder them together.  I also want to control this
> mold/guide so that I can adjust the irregularity of the shape,
> because trees
> are very gnarly (do you like my terminology).  Have any of you made a mold
> or guide like this and how did you do it?  Also does anyone have any
> experience making fountains?
>
> Thank you for all your help!
>
> SONYA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 15:06:17 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Bobfuses
From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: Bobfuses@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: came
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:00:49 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 6/12/00 9:31:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Bobfuses@aol.com 
writes:

> > I'm looking for some 3/16" came with a smooth crown (not
>  >  with ridges).  Any knowledge who a supplier would be?
>  >  

It has been brought to my attention by a very persistent bug that the 
question may be about the small ridges sometimes found running the length of 
came. These ridges or scratches are caused by worn dies used in the extruding 
process. They often brush out in the puttying process. I would say they are a 
reason to reject the came. Quality brands of came rarely have ridges.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 15:33:21 2000
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Bungi Group <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Non-Glass : About burning candles with metal wicks (lead wicks)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:48:09 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk


Non-Glass : About burning candles with metal wicks
(lead wicks)

As members of the Feingold Association (mainly
parents who have problem kids whose problems are
either unclassified or of dubious classification)
we get a lot of info about a variety of health
issues most of which involve child development.
[A lot of the members should be classified as
"moms over the top" but its still a good
organization.]

Child development is a relatively unexplored field
despite all the handwaving, bluster, and long
uninformative pseudo-greek descriptors used by
physicians and psychologists "active in the
field".  Workers in this field do not currently
have a good theory to guide them.  The few
diagnostic tools and probes available give data of
dubious quality and a reliable scientific/medical
framework into which the data should fit is
essentially non-existent.   It is thought by many
(including me) that increased exposure to certain
metals (including lead) may be the main causative
factor of the large increase of developmental
disorders in children that has been noted in the
last 2-3 decades in the western world.  It is
increasingly recognized that the increase is not
simply due to increased awareness and testing.
Something is causing this increase.  That
"something" is not yet clearly identified though
work is in progress.

We just received some info about candles that use
metal wicks =85 that is to say, lead wicks.  Candles
with lead wicks put a lot of lead into the air,
airborne lead in a readily absorbable form, hence
into the lungs, and from there into the
bloodstream.

Using these kinds of candles is not a good idea.

For more information, see :

http://www.citizen.org/press/pr-sid29.htm

Increased blood levels of lead (and other metals)
have many undesirable effects in adults, well
known to this particular group and therefore do
not need to be elucidated further in this email.
I already mentioned the relationship to child
development disorders.

However, there are a lot of artsy-craftsy folks on
this mailing list likely to be either users of
candles with metal wicks or manufacturers of
them.  Thus, I felt I should pass along this
cautionary note.

In my opinion ...

if you have candles like this in your house =85 toss
em =85 it ain't worth it.

If you make candles like this =85 its time to stop
making them.

If you sell candles like this in your store, its
time to discontinue that item.

The US Congress is apparently considering
legislation about these candles and a petition is
circulating.

If you are interested in participating in this
petition, go to :

http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr00/wicks.html

Apparently a voluntary ban in the candle industry
has been in effect for many years, but with little
effect, hence the interest by many in making this
ban mandated by law and the petition.

Anyway =85.. best regards to all =85. Bob

P.S.  I don't wish to argue with or be flamed by
any of the confrontational know-it-all yet
uninformed and unqualified types I know to be on
this list (such as, well, we know who you are) =85
therefore =85 Robert R. Kerr, Ph.D.'s in Chemistry
and Molecular Pharmacology, former prof. in the
School of Pharmacy, L'Universite Louis Pasteur.



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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 15:48:04 2000
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Bobfuses@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: came
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:17:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Some bugs are good to have around.  I'm sure you *forgot* to mention
that little fact! ;o)



Bobfuses@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 6/12/00 9:31:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Bobfuses@aol.com
> writes:
> 
> > > I'm looking for some 3/16" came with a smooth crown (not
> >  >  with ridges).  Any knowledge who a supplier would be?
> >  >
> 
> It has been brought to my attention by a very persistent bug that the
> question may be about the small ridges sometimes found running the length of
> came. These ridges or scratches are caused by worn dies used in the extruding
> process. They often brush out in the puttying process. I would say they are a
> reason to reject the came. Quality brands of came rarely have ridges.
> 
> Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 21:00:29 2000
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X-Path: erols.com!hmjacobs
From: Herbert Jacobs <hmjacobs@erols.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Butterfly designs
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:07:51 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: NONE
Precedence: bulk

I am planning a series of boxes with butterfly designs on the lids. Size
7" X 11".  I would like them to be somewhat realistic, but in looking at
pictures of actual butterflies, there are innumerable small colored
spots on them, so many that it seems impractical to use separate pieces
for each spot. Also, unfortunately, there do not seem to be filigrees
available like the ones for the Tiffany dragonflies, so I plan to use
wires to simulate the black lines which separate the segments. Does
anyone have any suggestions, or butterfly patterns they might be willing
to share?  Thanks in advance  Herb
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 21:59:41 2000
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X-Path: earthlink.net!laughingglass
From: Russ Burke <laughingglass@earthlink.net>
To: Glass Friends <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Hot Glued
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:24:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Folks:

A customer asked me to remove a circular glass panel about 15" in diameter
from a large wooed frame and re-frame it with thin metal more in keeping
with its style.  I removed the panel from the frame in which it was
apparently hot glued.

Here's the issue.  What is the best way to remove pesky bits of hot glue
form glass and copper foil leaving the latter two intact.  Any experiences
to share ....good or bad?

TIA    -- Russ

LAUGHING GLASS STUDIO              Russ and Cheryl Burke
P.O. Box 6  32 Birch Avenue
Mount Gretna PA 17064
                   
laughingglass@earthlink.net           ph    717-964-1150




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From owner-glass Mon Jun 12 22:59:34 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: hmjacobs@erols.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Butterfly designs
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:50:50 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 6/12/00 9:01:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
hmjacobs@erols.com writes:

> I am planning a series of boxes with butterfly designs on the lids. Size
> 7" X 11".  I would like them to be somewhat realistic, but in looking at
>  pictures of actual butterflies, there are innumerable small colored
>  spots on them, so many that it seems impractical to use separate pieces
>  for each spot. Also, unfortunately, there do not seem to be filigrees
>  available like the ones for the Tiffany dragonflies, so I plan to use
>  wires to simulate the black lines which separate the segments.

Well, I just did a forty inch diameter copy of the rose window in the 
national cathedral. The real window must be about fifty feet in diameter and 
have in excess of 10,000 pieces. How was it done? Easy! The stone tracery 
work was painted in black and the colored glass portions were done with frit 
of the right colors, sizes and density broadcast in the general pattern of 
the window which had been broken down into 21 pieces that were fired and then 
leaded together.

The real window must have several work years in it. The copy took about 60 
hours of actual labor. Making really great butterflies this way seems to me 
the only way to go. With a bit of care on your part, people that know their 
butterflies should be able to name the butterfly species. 

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 13 01:00:50 2000
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X-Path: juno.com!gmacfarland
From: gmacfarland@juno.com
To: Ensembles@compuserve.com
Subject: Re: Removing dried candle wax
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:32:33 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

you can remove candle wax very easily if you put the object with the wax
on it in the freezer long enough to get it really cold. It will then pop
off by just putting a plastic scraper under the edge of the wax.

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 13 05:30:39 2000
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X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio
From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: came
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:55:42 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

At 18:00 12/06/00 EDT, Bob wrote:
> Quality brands of came rarely have ridges.
>
Unless we are talking of Stillemans Flat lead which all has a raised "lip"
running along the outside edges of it like a miniature raised border.

Regards
Elizabeth in Bournemouth
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk


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From owner-glass Tue Jun 13 06:00:34 2000
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X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass
From: "KSee" <kseeglass@netzero.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: IGGA Press Release-Workshops
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 07:01:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

The following press release is provided as a service to IGGA members. This
posting does not indicate endorsement by IGGA of these services,
KSee, IGGA Communications Committee.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Summer 2000 Professional Workshops Announce
Contact: John I. Russell, Executive Director
Phone: 203-775-4526 ex 102
Web Site: www.brookfieldcraftcenter.org
email: brkfldcrft@aol.com

Brookfield Craft Center has announced their summer workshops in Paper & Book
Arts; Beads; Photography; Polymer; Design Arts; Decorative Arts;
Glass-Caning, Borosilicate Beads, Advanced Glass Blowing. The sessions begin
in early June and extends through the end of August.

The Center is offering students a 15% early registration discount. The
national respected non-profit Center was founded in 1954 and is one of
America's foremost schools for fine craftsmanship. Program information can
be found at our web site www.brookfieldcraftcenter.org.


_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 13 06:09:29 2000
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X-Path: warmglass.com!mbwalker
From: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@warmglass.com>
To: <Bobfuses@aol.com>, <hmjacobs@erols.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Butterfly designs
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:07:41 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Bob's right.  The best way to make really detailed and lifelike glass
insects (and many other things too) is to use fuse using frit.   To get an
idea of how fantastic a job you can do, check out Roger Nachman's site --
many of his pieces are realistic insect forms that are then slumped over
molds.  Roger's work is often so realistic he identifies the work by the
Latin name for the insects he depicts.  The url is:
http://www.nachmanglass.com/  Start with the "Sculptural Glass" part of the
site.

Another approach is to use glass painting techniques along with frit.  Roger
Thomas does this.  His work runs the gamet from landscapes to abstracts to
flora and fauna, but it also includes several very realistic pieces.  Click
on "Portfolio" from his home page:  http://www.rogerthomasglass.com/

I shudder to think of trying to duplicate these pieces with traditional
stained glass techniques (it's impossible!), but with a kiln it's just a
matter of talent, experience, and inspiration.

Brad Walker
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
For information about warm glass techniques and processes
such as fusing, slumping, and kiln forming, please visit
the Warm Glass website at http://www.warmglass.com


----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobfuses@aol.com>
To: <hmjacobs@erols.com>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: Butterfly designs


> In a message dated 6/12/00 9:01:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> hmjacobs@erols.com writes:
>
> > I am planning a series of boxes with butterfly designs on the lids. Size
> > 7" X 11".  I would like them to be somewhat realistic, but in looking at
> >  pictures of actual butterflies, there are innumerable small colored
> >  spots on them, so many that it seems impractical to use separate pieces
> >  for each spot. Also, unfortunately, there do not seem to be filigrees
> >  available like the ones for the Tiffany dragonflies, so I plan to use
> >  wires to simulate the black lines which separate the segments.
>
> Well, I just did a forty inch diameter copy of the rose window in the
> national cathedral. The real window must be about fifty feet in diameter
and
> have in excess of 10,000 pieces. How was it done? Easy! The stone tracery
> work was painted in black and the colored glass portions were done with
frit
> of the right colors, sizes and density broadcast in the general pattern of
> the window which had been broken down into 21 pieces that were fired and
then
> leaded together.
>
> The real window must have several work years in it. The copy took about 60
> hours of actual labor. Making really great butterflies this way seems to
me
> the only way to go. With a bit of care on your part, people that know
their
> butterflies should be able to name the butterfly species.
>
> Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Jun 13 07:08:01 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Signing your art and indoor fountains
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:30:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Sonya Amt
>I need your opinion.  Do any of you sign you artwork and how do you do
that?
I do panels for the most part and am beginning to sell them.  With a
marketing background, I know it would be good business to sign my pieces.=
 =

I
thought of going to Things Remembered - an engraving store -  and getting=
 a
small name plate engraved with maybe the piece's name, my name and compan=
y
name - then soldering it onto the piece.   But what is appropriate  - jus=
t
my name?  Dare I say a phone number?  <

Rather than take your artwork to Things Remembered, you can purchase an
engraver and do it yourself.  Or there are companies who make brass
nameplates
for you, which you can then solder into place.  If you're interested in t=
he
later, email
me off the bungi group and I'll give you a list of those companies from t=
he
IGGA
database.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 13 08:02:11 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!ARTIZ01
From: ARTIZ01@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Frog Glass
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:45:05 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

What would be a great glass for frogs? How about a Mottle?
Thanks Bob
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 13 11:39:01 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: Frog glass
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:15:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk


If I were making a frog, I'd use Youghiogheny's 4004 HS, 4301 HS, or
4444 HS.  

Suzanne
aka my guru's persistent bug


> What would be a great glass for frogs? How about a Mottle?
> Thanks Bob
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 13 13:34:11 2000
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Nancy B Gildersleeve <nbg3755@juno.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: question about tents ... not totally glass related
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Nancy, et.al.  You asked what the rest of us used as canopys for craft
fairs.  My canopy or tent was purchased at Orchard's Hardware store for
about $98.  It is a break-apart with aluminum rods and frame.  It is
rather easy to assemble and rather than try to peg the legs in the ground,
I got some pvc pipe, angled it to fit the tent frame inside a large coffee
can and then poured cement in the can.  This was sufficient to raise the
tent and easy to haul around.  I don't do many craft shows anymore but I
still use the coffee cans filled with cement and the pvc pipe for such
things as garden stakes.  Oh yes, the frame broke into smaller pieces and
fit into a satchel.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Tue Jun 13 15:39:07 2000
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Frog glass
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:30:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Really depends on the look you want for the frogs.  Suzann's choices of
High Strike is good (you can hardly go wrong with the Youghiogheny HS),
but you might want to look at the Youghiogheny RG's as well.  If you
want little rings to show, you might even want to face it "back" side
out.

Dorothy (who hopes to be in Connellsville on Saturday, money in hand!)

Suzanne Gunn wrote:

> If I were making a frog, I'd use Youghiogheny's 4004 HS, 4301 HS, or
> 4444 HS.
>
> Suzanne
> aka my guru's persistent bug
>
> > What would be a great glass for frogs? How about a Mottle?
> > Thanks Bob
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 13 20:33:20 2000
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Moya-Don
From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: signing art and fountain
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 00:09:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sonya,
Definitely sign your work.  A plate is fine, but use an address (with street
address and city and state.  Telephone number is a probably a little too
much.  I simply sign and date my work with an engraver.

Sorry I cannot help you with the fountain.  It sounds like quite an
undertaking.  You did not mention size.  That would be of primary
importance.  You must post a photo for us all to see when finished.
Moya

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From owner-glass Tue Jun 13 21:33:34 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Butterfly designs
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:44:45 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Herb,
Have you thought of doing a mosaic on glass for the box top?  It would be
easier than wrapping such small pieces of glass for the spots.  Just use a
clear piece of glass for the box top and then do a mosaic of your butterfly.
    Warner Crivalerro had some butterfly filigree, but I think all of the
ones I saw were quite small.  You might want to check with them though.
Moya

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From owner-glass Wed Jun 14 06:30:51 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Frog Glass
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:14:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by INTERNET:ARTIZ01@aol.com
>What would be a great glass for frogs? How about a Mottle?<

Youghiogheny has a couple great green/green mottle glasses: =

4004HS for medium greens, and 4050HS for olive greens.
Both have excellent spots.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Wed Jun 14 13:52:45 2000
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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Egyptian Glass Thanks
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 16:36:30 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

THanks to all of you that responded about the Egyptian Patterns. 
Especially Mike and Carolyn.  Mike I got your mail today.   THanks for
taking the time and effort to make the copies and mail them to me.
This is why I love BUNGI, all the help and nothing asked in return.

Thanks,
Caren

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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From owner-glass Wed Jun 14 21:53:24 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Patinas (was Yikes - need patina help)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 00:35:45 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Well, Bungians, learn well from my mistake.  DON'T USE BRONZO to buff
your soldered foil with if you are going to use patina - at least the
Jax Brown stuff.  Even after wiping the surface to what I thought was
clean, there were enough little tiny pieces which turned dark, and which
seem to have bonded to any glass with an appreciable amount of white
glass.  That goes for wispy where a lot of white hits the surface, and
opalescent, especially pastels, pale carmels, and, of course, white.

Christie Wood suggested using SemiChrome, but that was the one thing I
was not able to lay my hands on.  I used 0000 steel wool and razor
blades in conjunction with:  99% alcohol, original Windex, SoyGold,
Pamolive dish soap, Neutra 5000 flux and patina remover, CJ's flux and
patina remover, WD40, mineral spirits, and acetone.  I used each alone
with the steel wool and razor.  No mixing or I probably wouldn't be here
to tell about it.  Nothing worked.

And while we are on the subject of patina, I kept wondering why they
called it "brown".  "Dark lead" would have been a better description.  I
think the only brown glints were reflections off the brown glass.  I
suspect I could have achieved much the same effect if I'd smeared a bit
of the putty used with came all over it and chased that with a sprinkle
of whiting, and a lot quicker because it took about 4 applications in
any one spot to achieve a good dark effect on 60/40 solder.

I was afraid to try it, but I kept thinking if I could have mixed the
brown half and half with black, I might have achieved more of the effect
I was looking for.  I would have liked a bit of red glints - more of a
real brown, maroon effect.  I wondered what would happen if I copper
plated (Jax) or used Copper Bright, and then hit it with the brown or
black - or put the copper on top of the patina.  Is there a treatise on
patinas?  Has anyone made a systematic exploration of these sorts of
things?

Cec - who's jealous of Dorothy who will be in Connellsville Saturday,
money or no money.  Me, I'll be drelbing away making potato salad for
Father's Day.

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jun 14 23:36:29 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: TurtleWax spray
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 00:02:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

I used it tonight and I'm converted.  I'd been using a car wax - the liquid cream
sort.  From now on it's the spray (for my car too!).

Elaine wrote:

> A TurtleWax quality control gal said if the container says not to use on glass,
> it's because it will make a nasty, smeary, streaky, greasy mess. I think she said
> oily, too. I read the product name right off the label thinking maybe we're
> talking about different products, also said I'm using it for a non-automotive
> application. She said the same thing again. Guess they're just covering their
> tracks. Elaine
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 06:07:01 2000
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: bell caps for glass jewelry
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 06:17:21 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000615061721.007ef930@pop.racsa.co.cr>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
	I am currently tumbling some of my bits of left over glass, and want to
make them into earrings.  However, the bell caps I need are the ones with
only two "legs" or "leaves" and I can't find a retailer (hopefully with a
web page) to by some from, by mail.  Anyone know anything helpful?  Thanks,
Meg
=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=
=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=
=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=
=BA
=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA
RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
Apdo 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA

PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 07:57:10 2000
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X-Path: mtcon.net!shigbee
From: "Shari" <shigbee@mtcon.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Patinas (was Yikes - need patina help)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:20:50 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Cec--I'm so sorry about your patina escapade. What a lot of work! Joe
Porcelli is the king of patinas, and I think he usually does his patina
workshop at Warner-Criv's Glass Vision and the Las Vegas Glass Craft Expo. I
haven't attended, but from others who have, heard he talks a lot about
layering patinas. Like you put 3 coats of the Jax copper plate on (taking
each one off) and then put on the Jax green several times...and finally end
up with the right finished color.

I mostly remember that it was definitely not a one-step process to get this
"perfect finish". Someone who took his workshop last year (Suzanne?) posted
a bunch of notes last year. Wonder if you could find the details in the
archives?

Shari in SLC

----- Original Message -----
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Patinas (was Yikes - need patina help)


> Well, Bungians, learn well from my mistake.  DON'T USE BRONZO to buff
> your soldered foil with if you are going to use patina - at least the
> Jax Brown stuff.  Even after wiping the surface to what I thought was
> clean, there were enough little tiny pieces which turned dark, and which
> seem to have bonded to any glass with an appreciable amount of white
> glass.  That goes for wispy where a lot of white hits the surface, and
> opalescent, especially pastels, pale carmels, and, of course, white.
>
> Christie Wood suggested using SemiChrome, but that was the one thing I
> was not able to lay my hands on.  I used 0000 steel wool and razor
> blades in conjunction with:  99% alcohol, original Windex, SoyGold,
> Pamolive dish soap, Neutra 5000 flux and patina remover, CJ's flux and
> patina remover, WD40, mineral spirits, and acetone.  I used each alone
> with the steel wool and razor.  No mixing or I probably wouldn't be here
> to tell about it.  Nothing worked.
>
> And while we are on the subject of patina, I kept wondering why they
> called it "brown".  "Dark lead" would have been a better description.  I
> think the only brown glints were reflections off the brown glass.  I
> suspect I could have achieved much the same effect if I'd smeared a bit
> of the putty used with came all over it and chased that with a sprinkle
> of whiting, and a lot quicker because it took about 4 applications in
> any one spot to achieve a good dark effect on 60/40 solder.
>
> I was afraid to try it, but I kept thinking if I could have mixed the
> brown half and half with black, I might have achieved more of the effect
> I was looking for.  I would have liked a bit of red glints - more of a
> real brown, maroon effect.  I wondered what would happen if I copper
> plated (Jax) or used Copper Bright, and then hit it with the brown or
> black - or put the copper on top of the patina.  Is there a treatise on
> patinas?  Has anyone made a systematic exploration of these sorts of
> things?
>
> Cec - who's jealous of Dorothy who will be in Connellsville Saturday,
> money or no money.  Me, I'll be drelbing away making potato salad for
> Father's Day.
>
> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 15:43:35 2000
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X-Path: warmglass.com!mbwalker
From: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@warmglass.com>
To: <Bobfuses@aol.com>, <hmjacobs@erols.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Butterfly designs
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:07:41 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>>
Precedence: bulk

Bob's right.  The best way to make really detailed and lifelike glass
insects (and many other things too) is to use fuse using frit.   To get an
idea of how fantastic a job you can do, check out Roger Nachman's site --
many of his pieces are realistic insect forms that are then slumped over
molds.  Roger's work is often so realistic he identifies the work by the
Latin name for the insects he depicts.  The url is:
http://www.nachmanglass.com/  Start with the "Sculptural Glass" part of the
site.

Another approach is to use glass painting techniques along with frit.  Roger
Thomas does this.  His work runs the gamet from landscapes to abstracts to
flora and fauna, but it also includes several very realistic pieces.  Click
on "Portfolio" from his home page:  http://www.rogerthomasglass.com/

I shudder to think of trying to duplicate these pieces with traditional
stained glass techniques (it's impossible!), but with a kiln it's just a
matter of talent, experience, and inspiration.

Brad Walker
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
For information about warm glass techniques and processes
such as fusing, slumping, and kiln forming, please visit
the Warm Glass website at http://www.warmglass.com


----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobfuses@aol.com>
To: <hmjacobs@erols.com>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: Butterfly designs


> In a message dated 6/12/00 9:01:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> hmjacobs@erols.com writes:
>
> > I am planning a series of boxes with butterfly designs on the lids. Size
> > 7" X 11".  I would like them to be somewhat realistic, but in looking at
> >  pictures of actual butterflies, there are innumerable small colored
> >  spots on them, so many that it seems impractical to use separate pieces
> >  for each spot. Also, unfortunately, there do not seem to be filigrees
> >  available like the ones for the Tiffany dragonflies, so I plan to use
> >  wires to simulate the black lines which separate the segments.
>
> Well, I just did a forty inch diameter copy of the rose window in the
> national cathedral. The real window must be about fifty feet in diameter
and
> have in excess of 10,000 pieces. How was it done? Easy! The stone tracery
> work was painted in black and the colored glass portions were done with
frit
> of the right colors, sizes and density broadcast in the general pattern of
> the window which had been broken down into 21 pieces that were fired and
then
> leaded together.
>
> The real window must have several work years in it. The copy took about 60
> hours of actual labor. Making really great butterflies this way seems to
me
> the only way to go. With a bit of care on your part, people that know
their
> butterflies should be able to name the butterfly species.
>
> Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>

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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 16:43:47 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Signing your art and indoor fountains
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:30:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Sonya Amt
>I need your opinion.  Do any of you sign you artwork and how do you do
that?
I do panels for the most part and am beginning to sell them.  With a
marketing background, I know it would be good business to sign my pieces.=
 =

I
thought of going to Things Remembered - an engraving store -  and getting=
 a
small name plate engraved with maybe the piece's name, my name and compan=
y
name - then soldering it onto the piece.   But what is appropriate  - jus=
t
my name?  Dare I say a phone number?  <

Rather than take your artwork to Things Remembered, you can purchase an
engraver and do it yourself.  Or there are companies who make brass
nameplates
for you, which you can then solder into place.  If you're interested in t=
he
later, email
me off the bungi group and I'll give you a list of those companies from t=
he
IGGA
database.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 17:10:38 2000
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: PS semi chrome polish
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:08:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

You can get simi chrome polish at a car parts store, if your stained
glass supplier doesnt carry it.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 17:41:23 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!ARTIZ01
From: ARTIZ01@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Frog Glass
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:45:05 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

What would be a great glass for frogs? How about a Mottle?
Thanks Bob
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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 17:58:16 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Jim's Porcelli patina notes
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:26:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Here are Jim's notes from the archives.

Suzanne

> From: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Subject: Notes from Patina seminar
> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:36:10 -0400 (EDT)
> Message-ID: <1999Sep1.53610.0>
> Precedence: bulk
> 
> 
> Here are my notes from Joe Porcelli's Saturday seminar on patina.
> 
> Disclaimer:  These are my notes from Joe's seminar.  It's been over 25
> years since I've sat in a college classroom and had to take notes and
> the papers I have in front of me prove it.  They are covered with
> boxes and lines as well as writing that I'm having a hard time
> reading.
> 
> Preface:
> 
> Joe said many times that these are his methods/recommendations.  If
> you are unsure of something test it first with a scrap piece.
> 
> Joe was very candid and answered every question presented (there were
> quite a few).
> 
> General:
> 
> The following lists the ability of various metals used by SG artist
> to accept a patina (from worst to best):
> 
> lead
> tin
> brass
> copper
> bronze
> 
> This is why a 60/40 solder takes a patina better than 50/50.
> 
> Safety note, Joe gave no additional safety warnings other then to say
> that all the chemicals he mentions are relatively safe (as well as
> relatively dangerous) but manufacturer safety recommendations should
> always be followed.
> 
> Oxidation is the villain of patina, oxidized pieces yield unpredictable
> results (everyone is familiar with the white chalky powdery oxidation
> that appears on solder lines).  It is best to patina right after
> soldering but if you can't Joe recommends that the cleaned/dry piece be
> placed in a plastic bag to protect it from oxidizing elements.
> 
> If the piece becomes lightly oxidized Joe recommended cleaning with
> 0000 steel wool to remove the oxidation.  For heavily oxidized pieces
> he recommends a chemical cleaner (Jax Metal Cleaner).
> 
> Joe stressed many times that the process of applying a patina is a
> chemical reaction and any material other then the solder and patina
> could produce unexpected results.  Joe recommends the following:
> 
> 1. Use only a water soluble flux and water soluble patinas.
> 2. Clean with only water - no soaps or chemicals as they may leave a
>    residual which could produce undesired results.  I can't say how
>    many times he said this.  In response to every question on the
>    subject he gave the same answer - Use water soluble flux; wash
>    with water.  Everyone asked him about this cleaning method or that
>    chemical, but his response was always the same.
> 
> Joe said to be careful with iridescent glass as fluxes/patinas could
> cause the glass to cloud as they react with the metals in the
> iridescent glass.  If you have a piece that this has happened to, he
> suggests trying to cover the piece with a light coat of satin finish
> laquar - Use a high quality laquar.  This might return the luster to
> the iridescent glass.  Best to test with a piece of scrap glass before
> applying chemicals.
> 
> Black Patina:
> 
> Do NOT use Simichrome polish on pieces with black patina - it will
> remove the patina.  Use a paste wax instead.
> 
> If the black patina flakes off as it's being applied STOP.  Clean up
> the piece using 0000 steel wool, wash and dry.  Cut the patina with
> a little water to weaken the solution and apply.
> 
> For a deeper black add a pinch of salt.  You know those Italian cooks
> it's always a pinch of this and a pinch of that.
> 
> Brown Patina:
> 
> To get a brown patina Joe recommends that two patinas be layered (not
> mixed) as follows:
> 
> 1. When finished soldering clean the piece with water and dry.
> 2. Apply a copper sulfate patina.
> 3. Wash with water and dry.
> 4. Cut a black patina 4 to 1 with water (4 parts patina/ 1 part water).
> 5. Apply cut black patina to darken the copper, when desired color
>    is reached rinse with water.
> 
> Green/Brown Patina:
> 
> The commercial green patinas will only work on Copper and Bronze,
> to get a green patina we must first apply a copper coat to our piece.
> There are 2 ways to do this:
> 
> 1. Electroplate - Take your cleaned piece to a metal plater and
>    ask them to apply a 4 mil thickness of copper plating.  Look in the
>    yellow pages - he recommends someone who is use to working with
>    antiques as they are more likely to recognize the one of a kind
>    nature of Stained Glass art and provide the necessary precautions.
>    Be careful with iridescent glass as the metal in the finish
>    could cause the entire piece of iridescent glass to become plated.
>    Test first.
> 
>    After plating apply the Green patina.  Wash and dry.
>    Mix 8oz of Brown patina with 1 tsp. white vinegar and apply to piece.
>    When desired color is reached rinse and dry.
> 
> 2. Chemical - This is a multi-step process that can be done in the shop
>    or home.  Joe recommends 3 products - Jax Copper Plating Solution,
>    Jax Green Patina and Jax Brown Patina.
>    The process is:
> 
>    a. Clean, rinse and dry the piece.
>    b. Apply the Copper plating solution.  When you are done it will
>       look awful (a blotchy pink and copper color).  Rinse and dry.
>    c. Use 0000 steel wool to remove ALL the finish just applied.
>       Return the piece to bare metal.  Rinse and dry.
>    d. Apply a second coat of Copper plating solution, the piece should
>       look like a new penny when done.  Rinse and dry.
>    e. Apply the green patina, it could take 10 to 15 minutes for a color
>       change.  Stop when desired color is reached.  Rinse and dry.
>    f. Apply the Brown patina (without the vinegar described above).
>       It could take 20 to 30 minutes to see color change.  When desired
>       color rinse and dry.  Repeat as needed.
>    g. Apply a light coat of high grade Semi-gloss laquar to seal color
>       as it can be rubbed off.  Wax and buff.
> 
> That was about all from Saturday.  I did not attend the seminar on Sunday
> but believe he did add some items to his talk.
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 18:09:53 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Joe Porcelli's patina suggestions
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:23:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Ok...found my post.  Cant remember if I ever did post the recipe's...
still looking for Jim's post with the recipes, and better notes.
;o)

Suzanne


> From owner-glass Tue Aug 31 16:38:06 1999
> Return-Path: <owner-glass>


..that said, he started by going over the scale of metal integrity

Best on top...worst on bottom
Bronze
copper
brass
tin
lead

He suggests using 60/40 solder for the higher tin content.  The metals
with the highest integrity will take the patina the best.

Most important thing to do is to use water soluable flux, wash was water
and keep it clean.  If water isnt enough use very fine steel wool (0000)
after the steel wool, rinse.

If that isnt enough use Jax metal cleaner.
Joe uses a nylon brush to apply his patina.
He uses and recommends Jax patinas.

I asked him about a problem Ive had with patina flaking off and leaving
base metal.  He said it sounded like my patina was too strong, and to
try watering it down a little (I havent had a chance to try it yet)

He suggests using paste wax on black patina, never use polishing
compound as it will take it off.

When going for a brown patina dont mix your copper sulfate and black
patina.  ALWAYS LAYER your patina.  Always rinse with water between
applications.  Always have SEPARATE labeled brushes for each patina. 
(another of my mistakes)

Keep things clean, patina as soon as possible after finishing and rinse,
rinse, rinse.  Dont introduce other chemicals to your solder...dont use
soap.

You dont need to tin a brass vase cap.  Brass is a metal of higher
integrity and will take the patina better than the solder.  If anything
it just needs to be cleaned.  Try Jax metal cleaner. Steel wool, rinse.

He gave us recipes, will send those later.  Sorry. Im just tired of
typing. (I used up a lot of energy this weekend) :o)

He was very helpful, knowledgable, and more than willing to answer any
questions.
-- 
Suzanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Choosing is only difficult
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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 19:03:14 2000
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X-Path: one.net!kleeman
From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: PS semi chrome polish
Date: Thu Jun 15 18:06:37 2000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: taylor'd Expressions
Precedence: bulk

http://taylordexpressions.safeshopper.com/101/cat101.htm?253
debbie


kleeman@one.net
513. 870.9773
fax: 513.870.9785
Stampin' up! Demonstrator - mailto: kleeman@one.net
Fuller Brush Ind Rep - http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/fullerbrush
Stained Glass Supplies - http://taylordexpressions.com




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Cecily and Ralph Wood" <cecnralph@home.com>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 8:16 PM
Subject: PS semi chrome polish


> You can get simi chrome polish at a car parts store, if your stained
> glass supplier doesnt carry it.
> 
> Suzanne
> ----
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> 
> 

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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 19:13:54 2000
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From: "J. Dahlin" <jdahlin@pro-ns.net>
To: Bungi Glass Group <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Plate glass cutting
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 20:57:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I know this isn't a STAINED glass question, but it is a glass question
and I need some help.

My husband is renovating an apartment building we own and has a plate
glass mirror that is damaged.  It is approximately 3 feet by 4 feet.  It
needs to have about an inch of damaged area cut off two sides.

How can I cut this for him and after it is cut, how can it be polished
or finished.  I have the both the large and small Morton cutting boards
and a Glasstar grinder.  I have never tried cutting plate glass mirrors
before and hate to start on such a big one.  Any ideas will be most
appreciated.

Joanne

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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 20:01:20 2000
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Shari <shigbee@mtcon.net>, glass@bungi.com,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Patinas (was Yikes - need patina help)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:06:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I dont know what Bronzo is, but regardless it looks like Cecily has
tried everything that I would have recommended to take it off.

Ive never tried for brown patina...although Ive gotten it a few times
from using semi chrome polish on top of black patina! ;o) <- you arent
supposed to do that, btw! 

Joe did go over this last year.  I meant to email regarding this but
hadnt gotten around to it, and I dont have your answer.  Jim Gonzales
might though.  He took much better notes than I did.  I have Joes'
recipe somewhere, but cant tell you where. :o/

As I recall Joe gets brown from layers...and if at first you dont
succeed, 0000 steel wool, lots of water, and try try again.

Jim, are you still out there?  If Jim isnt around with his
notes....Maybe Chris Kaiser can help?  Or...sometime in September or Oct
1999 in the archives is where I'd expect to find Jim's post
regarding his notes from Joe's patina talk.

Good luck, wish I was more help.

What is Bronzo?  I have no clue.

Suzanne





snip city...

Shari wrote:

> I mostly remember that it was definitely not a one-step process to get this
> "perfect finish". Someone who took his workshop last year (Suzanne?) posted
> a bunch of notes last year. Wonder if you could find the details in the
> archives?
> 
> Shari in SLC
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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 20:38:59 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: bell caps for glass jewelry
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 20:09:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<3.0.6.32.20000615061721.007ef930@pop.racsa.co.cr>>
Precedence: bulk

"You might try http://www.riogrande.com/

Suzanne

Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>         I am currently tumbling some of my bits of left over glass, and want to
> make them into earrings.  However, the bell caps I need are the ones with
> only two "legs" or "leaves" and I can't find a retailer (hopefully with a
> web page) to by some from, by mail.  Anyone know anything helpful?  Thanks,
> Meg
> =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=
> =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=
> =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=
> =BA
> =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA
> RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
> Apdo 24-5655
> Monteverde
> COSTA RICA
> 
> PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 22:51:24 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Patinas (was Yikes - need patina help)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:39:37 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<39499F01.BB0A3A7E@ix.netcom.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

No, it really is neat stuff, but of course I'm never using it around patina again.

Suzanne Gunn wrote:

> lol...based on your experiences...I dont think I'll be needing it! ;o)
>
> Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote:
> >
> > Bronzo is like steel wool only made of bronze, and it is a bit coarser than what
> > we use in steel wool (0000).  It is technically bronze but must have a high
> > degree of copper in it because it is a cross between brass and a lovely almost
> > new penny color.  It is particularly good when you are scrubbing down came (not
> > lead, but the brass, copper and zinc), so it is nice and new looking.  I have a
> > friend who sells stained glass crafts, and she loves it for the hair on angels,
> > among other things.  You should be able to get it thru a normal SG supply house,
> > or they can order it.
> >
> > Suzanne Gunn wrote:
> >
> > > I dont know what Bronzo is, but regardless it looks like Cecily has
> > > tried everything that I would have recommended to take it off.
> > >
> > > Ive never tried for brown patina...although Ive gotten it a few times
> > > from using semi chrome polish on top of black patina! ;o) <- you arent
> > > supposed to do that, btw!
> > >
> > > Joe did go over this last year.  I meant to email regarding this but
> > > hadnt gotten around to it, and I dont have your answer.  Jim Gonzales
> > > might though.  He took much better notes than I did.  I have Joes'
> > > recipe somewhere, but cant tell you where. :o/
> > >
> > > As I recall Joe gets brown from layers...and if at first you dont
> > > succeed, 0000 steel wool, lots of water, and try try again.
> > >
> > > Jim, are you still out there?  If Jim isnt around with his
> > > notes....Maybe Chris Kaiser can help?  Or...sometime in September or Oct
> > > 1999 in the archives is where I'd expect to find Jim's post
> > > regarding his notes from Joe's patina talk.
> > >
> > > Good luck, wish I was more help.
> > >
> > > What is Bronzo?  I have no clue.
> > >
> > > Suzanne
> > >
> > > snip city...
> > >
> > > Shari wrote:
> > >
> > > > I mostly remember that it was definitely not a one-step process to get this
> > > > "perfect finish". Someone who took his workshop last year (Suzanne?) posted
> > > > a bunch of notes last year. Wonder if you could find the details in the
> > > > archives?
> > > >
> > > > Shari in SLC
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> > --
> > *********************************************************************
> > *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> > *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> > *********************************************************************

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Thu Jun 15 23:09:08 2000
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From: vern sila <vsila@uswest.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: copywrite
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 22:12:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am new to stained and leaded glass (very new).  After only

my fifth piece I have had a friend approach me to do a
leaded glass window for him.  He gave me a picture from a
magazine in which in the background of the photo is a leaded

glass window that he wants me to reproduce.  No reference is

made to the artist of the window.  (One can barely even see
the window in the photo.)  Well, I have the opportunity to
have my first commission job.  One problem:  copyright
infringement.  Could someone inform me of what my legal
limitations are in reproducing that window and selling it?
Thanks in advance.




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From owner-glass Fri Jun 16 10:00:55 2000
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Subject: etching
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:45:20 -0700
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I would like to do a glass etching of 3 letters of the alphabet 
approximately 3/4" high. (kind of like a monogram)  Does anyone know of a 
company that would make a template of those three initials so I can etch a 
piece of glass and then reuse the template??

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 16 10:55:40 2000
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From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Books on Repairs
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 00:22:55 -0400
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Clear DayHi to all,
    I'm looking for good books on doing repair work, both copper foil and
lead came types. Does anyone know of a good book I can order? Repairs are
general, not just panels or lamps, so I need something comprehensive.
Sarah

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 16 11:57:38 2000
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X-Path: ns.sympatico.ca!heinze.g
From: heinze.g@ns.sympatico.ca (Gail HeinzeMiline)
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Ready to Fuse
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:55:07 -0300
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I am ready to delve into the world of fusing and need your advice. What
books do you recommend to get started?  I'm looking for a intro course
but may not get to one for awhile. What about kilns? I remember  one of
you suggested that a used ceramic kiln was an OK place to start. I know
I will want to make tabletops 15" wide as I am doing lots of those in
mosaic work right now. What size should I look for? Any help is most
appreciated!!
Thanks.

Gail in Nova Scotia

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 16 15:19:20 2000
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From: "cheryl zipf" <glassgirl@mindspring.com>
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Subject: repairs
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:06:47 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Try the Stained Glass Association of America  www.stainedglass.org=20

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Try the Stained Glass Association of =
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 16 17:38:39 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: repairs
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:54:15 +0000
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>     I'm looking for good books on doing repair work, both copper
>     foil and
> lead came types. Does anyone know of a good book I can order?

Have you looked at Julie Sloan's award-winning book, "Conservation of 
Stained Glass in America"? See http://aiap.com/sloan.htm for more 
information.

Albert

Albert Lewis
Art in Architecture Press
54 Cherry Street, North Adams MA 01247
(413) 663-7946     Fax: (413) 663-7167
Home page:         http://www.aiap.com
--------------------------------------
Search easily among 2,300+ glass books
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 16 17:53:58 2000
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Subject: Butterflies
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:43:26 -0400
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Many thanks to all you good people -  Bob, Brad , Loretta, Cecily &
Ralph & Joyce, who offered  very useful suggestions. Sorry if I omitted
anyone.  Herb
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 16 20:15:03 2000
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X-Path: warmglass.com!mbwalker
From: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@warmglass.com>
To: "Gail HeinzeMiline" <heinze.g@ns.sympatico.ca>, "glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Ready to Fuse
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 22:39:08 -0400
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At the risk of being accused of plugging my own website, Gail, you ought to
check out www.warmglass.com   Most of your questions will be answered there
(start with the Basics tutorial); if not, check out the Bulletin Board on
the site -- it's devoted strictly to fusing and slumping, so you should be
able to get lots of help and advice there.

And you can email me directly if you need help, too.

Brad Walker
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
For information about warm glass techniques and processes
such as fusing, slumping, and kiln forming, please visit
the Warm Glass website at http://www.warmglass.com


----- Original Message -----
From: Gail HeinzeMiline <heinze.g@ns.sympatico.ca>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 9:55 AM
Subject: Ready to Fuse


> I am ready to delve into the world of fusing and need your advice. What
> books do you recommend to get started?  I'm looking for a intro course
> but may not get to one for awhile. What about kilns? I remember  one of
> you suggested that a used ceramic kiln was an OK place to start. I know
> I will want to make tabletops 15" wide as I am doing lots of those in
> mosaic work right now. What size should I look for? Any help is most
> appreciated!!
> Thanks.
>
> Gail in Nova Scotia
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 16 21:09:07 2000
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From: Sonya Amt <SAmt@4esc.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Window Installation
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:04:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I've been making panels for 2 years now, but have never done a commission
piece.  I have someone that would like a window to be installed in an
existing window over a door.  Is there a book or general guidelines I need
to follow to install a piece or do I hire someone to do the installation?

SONYA


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From owner-glass Sat Jun 17 04:21:25 2000
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From: "Rebecca Wickline" <r.wickline@att.net>
To: nancy.Trammell@bellsouth.com
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Subject: FW: What to Wear
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:59:47 -0400
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----------
From: Cherryl & Jim <74267.3341@compuserve.com>
To: "Lewison, Karen" <karentenor@aol.com>, "Burke, Betty"
<bburke@dietzgen.com>, "Sheetz, Valerie" <vrs235@aol.com>, "Wickline, Becky"
<r.wickline@att.net>, "Peterson, Nancy" <dapeters@dist214.k12.il.us>
Subject: What to Wear
Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000, 10:36 PM


A few months late, but you'll get the point...



>>> Subject: What To Wear?
>>>
>>> A man was called in for an audit by the IRS. So, he asked his
accountant
>>> for advice on what to wear. "Wear your worst clothing and an old pair
of
>>> shoes.  Let them think you are a pauper," the accountant replied.
>>> Then he asked his lawyer the same question, but got the opposite
advice:
>>> "Don't let them intimidate you. Wear your best suit and an expensive
>>> tie."
>>> Confused, the man went to his therapist, told him of the conflicting
>>> advice, and asked him what he should do. "Let me tell you a story,"
>>> replied the therapist. "A woman, about to be married, asked her
mother
>>> what to wear on her wedding night. 'Wear a heavy, long, flannel
>>> nightgown that goes right up to your neck and wool socks.' But when
she
>>> asked her best friend, she got conflicting advice: Wear your most
sexy
>>> negligee, with a V neck right down to your navel."
>>> The man protested: "But, what does all this have to do with my
>>> problem with the IRS?"
>>> "It doesn't matter what you wear; you're still going to get screwed."
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From owner-glass Sun Jun 18 00:41:47 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: etching letters
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 00:27:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Since you have access to a computer, simply print the letters the size you
want from a font you wish and use those letters as your pattern.  If you
have a word processing program like Word or Word Perfect, it is really quite
simple.
Good Luck,
Moya

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From owner-glass Sun Jun 18 06:48:24 2000
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From: heinze.g@ns.sympatico.ca (Gail HeinzeMiline)
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Kilns
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:30:05 -0300
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Glass with Class
Precedence: bulk

After a web search and looking at Brad's great site, I am considering
the Paragon GF 8B as the kiln that may best suit my needs. Have any of
you comments for or against this kiln? Any problems?
And is the digital pyrometer worth the extra expenseas compared to the
analoq?
Thanks again!!

Gail in Nova Scotia

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From owner-glass Sun Jun 18 11:47:24 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: heinze.g@ns.sympatico.ca, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Kilns
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 14:02:38 EDT
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In a message dated 6/18/00 6:50:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
heinze.g@ns.sympatico.ca writes:

> After a web search and looking at Brad's great site, I am considering
> the Paragon GF 8B as the kiln that may best suit my needs. Have any of
> you comments for or against this kiln? Any problems?
> And is the digital pyrometer worth the extra expenseas compared to the
> analog?
> Thanks again!!

I would say the Paragon GF 8B is a good starter kiln and an excellent choice. 
Being a 17" diameter,120 volt kiln it will fire somewhat slow which can be an 
advantage in a manual kiln. I have a 28", 240 volt, GF 12BD with a digital 
controller. Have used it for about ten years for thousands of firings and it 
is still going strong.

I also have a Paragon digital pyrometer. The main advantage is that there are 
no misreadings by the observer. One slight disadvantage is that it requires a 
small power supply separately plugged in. If you buy a controller there is no 
need to buy a separate pyrometer.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Sun Jun 18 13:22:10 2000
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X-Path: juno.com!pkinnetz
From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: SAmt@4esc.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Signing your art and indoor fountains
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 15:05:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I'm thinking that you need some pretty easy to manipulate material to
build  a mold--maybe some fiberglass or even cheaper, some casting
plaster. When I was getting my BA in art, we had to do a 3-D design in
plaster, which was very easy to create any design you wanted by building
a wire armature, then covering with successive layers of plaster.  You
then would have a complete mold of what your fountain would look like. Of
course, you'd have to mark your mold in half, and build your glass
fountain only to that point, and take it off, doing the same for the
other half, and then soldering the two halves together. Or if it is a
complicated design, you'd have to make the fountain in more than two
pieces. 

Or if you need to, the plaster mold could be cut into several parts, but
I would tend to use the more expensive fiberglass so the edges wouldn't
crumble as the plaster might if its cut into.   The fiberglass mold would
also be more permanent, if you're going to be building more than one.

Peggy

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From owner-glass Mon Jun 19 13:41:31 2000
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X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "Gail HeinzeMiline" <heinze.g@ns.sympatico.ca>, "glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Kilns
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 00 16:15:52 
Message-ID: <200006182218.QAA11232@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

Gail,

all I can say (having one and using it), is YES, YES, AND YES.. Yes, it's very versatile; 
you don't feel bad firing it up for a small piece and you have lots of room for larger 
pieces. Problems are: it could be larger sometimes or deeper, but it's wonderful for 
most things. And yes, do the digital pryrometer. wouldn't be without it. Get the 220 
version and have an electrician install an outlet and breaker for it. Costs about 50 cents 
for a normal firing (not extended pate de verre firing)..
Candy

On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:30:05 -0300, Gail HeinzeMiline wrote:

>After a web search and looking at Brad's great site, I am considering
>the Paragon GF 8B as the kiln that may best suit my needs. Have any of
>you comments for or against this kiln? Any problems?
>And is the digital pyrometer worth the extra expenseas compared to the
>analoq?
>Thanks again!!
>
>Gail in Nova Scotia

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From owner-glass Mon Jun 19 14:14:43 2000
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X-Path: bitways.de!Lindner
From: "Lindner, Steve" <Lindner@bitways.de>
To: "'mail@omtec.de'" <mail@omtec.de>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Urgent inquiry for lamp systems
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:57:16 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Sirs,

We are an international trading company, mainly serving the European
industry.

The Bitways Group purchases globally on own account and then resells =
the
products to various clients. Our aim is to source globally and to offer =
our
clients the best prices worldwide.

>From one of our own or rented databases we have retrieved your address =
as
potential supplier of the product(s) we would like to purchase this =
time.

At the moment we are looking for lamp systems. The sytems are called
"Hipp-Hopp-System". It consists of 5 x 35W bulbs or 4 x 50W bulbs.
Bulb: Halogen
Colour of system: doesn=B4t matter
Material: metal
T=DCV/GS/CE cerificate
Qty: 6000 pieces

For further details contact me.

If you can promptly give us your very best quote you might be chosen as =
the
supplier we have been looking for as early as next week.

In conclusion I would like to ask you to make us your best quote as =
this
will enable us to work more efficiently.

This email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you =
must
not copy, disclose or use its contents. If you have received it in =
error,
please inform us immediately by return email and delete the document.-

Yours sincerely,

--=20
Steve Lindner
Bitways Global Sourcing Team

Bitways Global Sourcing GmbH
Berliner Br=FCcke, BZO, House 20,
InnovationsCampus,
D-38448 Wolfsburg, Germany
Fon: +49 (0) 5361 275789
Fax: +49 (0) 5361 275799
Email: Lindner@bitways.de
www.bitways.de

----
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 19 14:18:03 2000
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X-Path: mtcon.net!shigbee
From: "Shari" <shigbee@mtcon.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: request for help
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:34:36 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Does anybody have a good definition of "lampwork" or perhaps a paragraph or
two of the history/origin of the art? Need to put an "artist's bio"
together, and since there is so little to say about the artist (moi) I
thought I'd discuss the art instead... any good sources?

thanks! Shari in SLC


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From owner-glass Mon Jun 19 14:36:59 2000
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X-Path: clientes.euskaltel.es!elere
From: "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" <elere@clientes.euskaltel.es>
To: Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: workshop guide
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 00:06:07 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

HELLO GROUP
A while ago someone mentioned a book or guide to set up a stained glass
workshop, Can anyone tell me the title and where to get it? Thanks in
advance.
Elena

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From owner-glass Mon Jun 19 14:44:05 2000
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X-Path: bitways.de!Lindner
From: "Lindner, Steve" <Lindner@bitways.de>
To: "'mail@omtec.de'" <mail@omtec.de>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Urgent inquiry for lamp systems
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:47:33 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Sirs,

We are an international trading company, mainly serving the European
industry.

The Bitways Group purchases globally on own account and then resells =
the
products to various clients. Our aim is to source globally and to offer =
our
clients the best prices worldwide.

>From one of our own or rented databases we have retrieved your address =
as
potential supplier of the product(s) we would like to purchase this =
time.

At the moment we are looking for lamp systems. The sytems are called
"Hipp-Hopp-System". It consists of 5 x 35W bulbs or 4 x 50W bulbs.
Bulb: Halogen
Colour of system: doesn=B4t matter
Material: metal
T=DCV/GS/CE cerificate
Qty: 6000 pieces

For further details contact me.

If you can promptly give us your very best quote you might be chosen as =
the
supplier we have been looking for as early as next week.

In conclusion I would like to ask you to make us your best quote as =
this
will enable us to work more efficiently.

This email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you =
must
not copy, disclose or use its contents. If you have received it in =
error,
please inform us immediately by return email and delete the document.-

Yours sincerely,

--=20
Steve Lindner
Bitways Global Sourcing Team

Bitways Global Sourcing GmbH
Berliner Br=FCcke, BZO, House 20,
InnovationsCampus,
D-38448 Wolfsburg, Germany
Fon: +49 (0) 5361 275789
Fax: +49 (0) 5361 275799
Email: Lindner@bitways.de
www.bitways.de

----
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 19 15:15:37 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #292 built 2000-Jun-19)
X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: FW: etching letters
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 09:00:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

the really easy way to do this is to get the letters off your computer like
someone suggested, and take it to a rubber stamp place. you apply the
etching cream with the stamp.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

-----Original Message-----
From: Lorley Oneyear [mailto:lorley@home.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:45 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: etching


I would like to do a glass etching of 3 letters of the alphabet 
approximately 3/4" high. (kind of like a monogram)  Does anyone know of a 
company that would make a template of those three initials so I can etch a 
piece of glass and then reuse the template??
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 19 15:20:56 2000
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: FW: Plate glass cutting
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 09:06:06 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

if it's more than 1/4" thick, you need different tools and techniques to
cut. there's an article in a recent (<6months) issue of Glass Craftsman
about a new thick plate glass cutter. it has a tap head. it also went over
how to cut very think glass.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

-----Original Message-----
From: J. Dahlin [mailto:jdahlin@pro-ns.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 6:58 PM
To: Bungi Glass Group
Subject: Plate glass cutting


I know this isn't a STAINED glass question, but it is a glass question
and I need some help.

My husband is renovating an apartment building we own and has a plate
glass mirror that is damaged.  It is approximately 3 feet by 4 feet.  It
needs to have about an inch of damaged area cut off two sides.

How can I cut this for him and after it is cut, how can it be polished
or finished.  I have the both the large and small Morton cutting boards
and a Glasstar grinder.  I have never tried cutting plate glass mirrors
before and hate to start on such a big one.  Any ideas will be most
appreciated.

Joanne

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----
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 19 16:14:42 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Kilns
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:54:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200006182218.QAA11232@mantis.privatei.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

If you downsize that Paragon to a 15" 120 v one, you can use something called a kiln sitter,
which allows you to soak, but is a WHALE of a lot cheaper than the digital pyrometers, which
costs darn near as much as the kiln itself.  Seems as though the 17" Paragon is about as big
as you can go on 120 v, we have our 220 maxed out, and my husband is not at all interested in
having another line put in.  That is what I was originally drooling over, but if that kiln
sitter really works, I'd settle for the 15 incher and the smaller kiln.

Has any one used the kiln sitter?  What do you think?

Candy wrote:

> Gail,
>
> all I can say (having one and using it), is YES, YES, AND YES.. Yes, it's very versatile;
> you don't feel bad firing it up for a small piece and you have lots of room for larger
> pieces. Problems are: it could be larger sometimes or deeper, but it's wonderful for
> most things. And yes, do the digital pryrometer. wouldn't be without it. Get the 220
> version and have an electrician install an outlet and breaker for it. Costs about 50 cents
> for a normal firing (not extended pate de verre firing)..
> Candy
>
> On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:30:05 -0300, Gail HeinzeMiline wrote:
>
> >After a web search and looking at Brad's great site, I am considering
> >the Paragon GF 8B as the kiln that may best suit my needs. Have any of
> >you comments for or against this kiln? Any problems?
> >And is the digital pyrometer worth the extra expenseas compared to the
> >analoq?
> >Thanks again!!
> >
> >Gail in Nova Scotia
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 19 16:15:17 2000
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X-Path: sympatico.ca!tandg.higson
From: Gillian Higson <tandg.higson@sympatico.ca>
To: Elena, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rod4r=EDguez?=, Echebarria 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: workshop guide
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:53:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@l.pop50.bellglobal.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Elana
  I have a book called "Your stained glass workshop" by Gene Mayo.  It
shows you how to make all kinds of things for the home workshop.It doesn'=
t
tell you how to set one up though.  I guess that's a personal preference =
=2E
Regards
Gillian

Elena Rod4r=EDguez Echebarria wrote:

> HELLO GROUP
> A while ago someone mentioned a book or guide to set up a stained glass=

> workshop, Can anyone tell me the title and where to get it? Thanks in
> advance.
> Elena
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Mon Jun 19 16:46:47 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Shari <shigbee@mtcon.net>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: request for help
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:03:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

You might address the changing name - to "torchwork" since so many people are
into making Tiffany, Arts & Crafts, and other lamps, it is often assumed that
what is meant by lampwork is creating lamps, rather than using a torch and
glass rods, and other small glass pieces to make beads, or glass figures of
one kind or another. - Cec

Shari wrote:

> Does anybody have a good definition of "lampwork" or perhaps a paragraph or
> two of the history/origin of the art? Need to put an "artist's bio"
> together, and since there is so little to say about the artist (moi) I
> thought I'd discuss the art instead... any good sources?
>
> thanks! Shari in SLC
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 19 16:51:53 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!ARTIZ01
From: ARTIZ01@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Mermaid Pattern for Blasting
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:00:32 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone have a pattern of a mermaid for sand blasting? 
Thanks Bunny
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 20 08:57:49 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: FW: etching letters
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:58:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<394F8669.580A2A84@home.com>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk



Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote:

> Actually - one of the manufacturers of sandblasting/etching resist will do
> your designs for you or they have a huge number of their own, and it's all set
> to use.  You don't have to cut the resist yourself.  Unfortunately I can't
> remember which of the two manufacturers it is.  Do a web search on sandblast,
> resist, patterns. - Cec
>
> "Spitzer, Charlie" wrote:
>
> > the really easy way to do this is to get the letters off your computer like
> > someone suggested, and take it to a rubber stamp place. you apply the
> > etching cream with the stamp.
> >
> > regards,
> > charlie
> > phx, az
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lorley Oneyear [mailto:lorley@home.com]
> > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:45 AM
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: etching
> >
> > I would like to do a glass etching of 3 letters of the alphabet
> > approximately 3/4" high. (kind of like a monogram)  Does anyone know of a
> > company that would make a template of those three initials so I can etch a
> > piece of glass and then reuse the template??
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 20 12:11:20 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Albert needs a lampshade
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:58:03 +0000
Message-ID: <200006201754.NAA11210@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hello, all. Anyone interested in building a lampshade for a lampbase 
I just bought on eBay? This is a gift for meine Frau and what I've 
got in mind is something like the acorn pattern that Tiffany used, 
'cause the base is a Bradley & Hubbard Arts and Crafts lamp base with 
original ACORN pulls. An acorn pattern would make sense, no? <smile> 
The base is 20 1/2" tall with a 7" diameter foot and I'd appreciate 
hearing from anyone who's interested. If you could suggest the price 
range, that'd be helpful (I'll be sitting down). Oh, the birthday's 
end of July, by the way ... do-able?

Off-group's probably best for this, right? Thanks in advance.

Albert Lewis
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 20 14:01:55 2000
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: "J. Dahlin" <jdahlin@pro-ns.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Plate glass cutting
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:43:54 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Joan:  I know you don't want to hear this but because of the mirror
surface, I would take it to a glass shop and ask them to cut it and then
smooth the edges with their specially designed belt that doesn't cause
chipping of the mirror surface.  Plate glass is not as easy to cut as the
art glass but if you do....use the 8" running plier and once you hear the
inital "snap" of the glass just keep holding it...in a few seconds the
score line will continue to run the length of the glass.  Good luck.
Peggy

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From owner-glass Tue Jun 20 16:42:30 2000
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From: "Kris" <kristc@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: need suncatchers designed and made
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:13:41 -0400
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I have been in contact with someone who has an internet business selling
products for new moms and babies. She would love to have some suncatchers
with a pregnancy, breastfeeding, mom + baby kind of theme. She would keep
them in stock and reorder from you as needed so you could do them without a
whole lot of time pressure. She would also like to keep costs down so they
would be affordable for most of her customers.

Her name is Tammy, she can be reached at JEDPblshg@aol.com  and her website
is http://www.getattached.com/   The first thing she would need would be a
sketch of your design ideas and a cost estimate. If this sounds interesting
get in touch.

Kris

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From owner-glass Tue Jun 20 18:58:05 2000
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From: "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" <elere@clientes.euskaltel.es>
To: Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: workshop guide
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:49:46 +0200
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Precedence: bulk

Hello everyone
And thank you for the info on the book, which I will try to buy in the net.
If anyone can provide more information on setting up a proffesional SG studio,
I'd appreciate it. I am drafting a report which will be used to judge whether
the proposed workshop would be feasible (in order to get financial aid), so
the more details I can get, the better.  Have a nice entry into the summer!
Best regards.
Elena in Bilbao



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From owner-glass Wed Jun 21 06:29:40 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Kilns
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:12:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Gail HeinzeMiline
>After a web search and looking at Brad's great site, I am considering
the Paragon GF 8B as the kiln that may best suit my needs. Have any of
you comments for or against this kiln? Any problems?
And is the digital pyrometer worth the extra expenseas compared to the
analoq?
Thanks again!!

Gail in Nova Scotia<

Gail,

Are you in luck!  I got my Paragon GF 8B in my studio a couple
of weeks ago....brand spankin' new......and I love it.  I purchased
the analog pyrometer.  It's almost as accurate as the digital,
but I don't need critical accuracy with my bent-glass lampshade
repair work.  The needle of the pyrometer takes up the spy
hole drilled into the side of the kiln, so if you want to peep into
the kiln during firing you will have to drill another spy hole, or
else learn to not peep into the kiln until it's reached a sufficiently
high temperature to avoid stressing the glass.

The heating elements are in the lid only on the GF 8B, so you
have to have an asbestos-type glove for handling the lid
and reaching into the kiln if you are going to do glass manipulation
while the kiln is hot.

The only suprise for me was that my kiln showed up with a
commercial-grade prong on the electrical outlet...the kind
with 3 metal prongs, one being the standard round one and
the other 2 set up in a T configuration rather than parallel to
each other.  I had to rewire my electrical outlet to accept this
type of high-voltage plug, but that was easy (thanks to the
nice guy at Home Depot).

It took 6 weeks from order date to delivery date.  I've been
using it every day since then....lots of pent-up demand for
bent-lampshade repairs!

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Wed Jun 21 19:23:29 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:REGGISTARR@aol.com" <REGGISTARR@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: New use for old wooden windows
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:36:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by INTERNET:REGGISTARR@aol.com
>I'm looking for ideas to decorate old wooden windows. These are not bein=
g =

used as "windows" but for decorative cabinets or picture frames. Any othe=
r =

ideas? Thank you, Starr<

I've seen some excellent old wooden windows reworked with mirror
in back, and then mounted as wall mirrors.  Some folk leave it just
plain mirror (regular silvered), and some use the fancy stained glass
colored mirrored glass with antique lines in it...very pretty.  I've also=

seen some old wooden windows where the glass panes are painted
with little scenes like you were looking out the window, and these
then hung up in bay windows or turned into wall hangings.

I'm going to also post this question to the on-line glass group,
the bungi.com folk, so they can also give you some more
uses for these old wooden windows.

Bungi folk:  Anyone else have some more uses?  Please cc: the
reply to Starr at REGGISTARR@aol.com

Christie A. Wood - IGGA Exec. Director
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Wed Jun 21 23:21:11 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: New use for old wooden windows
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 00:31:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

My husband's office was changed from one that had windows to one with no
windows and he hates it.  I got an old wooden frame and was going to create
an outside view.  However, upon thinking about it, I decided that any window
looking inside a wall would probably have a rather bizarre aspect, and the
"bizarre" linked in my mind to Clarice Cliff's Bizarre Ware.  She was the
ultimate designer in Art Deco Pottery, so I adapted some of her teapots and
plates to create a wonderfully bizarre Art Deco landscape.  It's going to be
stunning when I finish.

However your possibilities are limitless:  waterlilies a la Monet, seascapes,
desert vistas,  NE coastal fogs,  some pale blue mirror with clouds
sandblasted on the front,  a mountain scene, a farmyard, a tangle of tree
trunks, ad nauseum.  You might even make it as a light box.

I've also seen mirrors painted as though they were an English garden, and
(this is a bit twee) real dried flowers in tiny pails or pots in front -
attached to the window sill.

Well done, all these things sell for a mint in home furnishing and gift
stores. - Cec

"Christie A. Wood" wrote:

> Message text written by INTERNET:REGGISTARR@aol.com
> >I'm looking for ideas to decorate old wooden windows. These are not bein=
> g =
>
> used as "windows" but for decorative cabinets or picture frames. Any othe=
> r =
>
> ideas? Thank you, Starr<
>
> I've seen some excellent old wooden windows reworked with mirror
> in back, and then mounted as wall mirrors.  Some folk leave it just
> plain mirror (regular silvered), and some use the fancy stained glass
> colored mirrored glass with antique lines in it...very pretty.  I've also=
>
> seen some old wooden windows where the glass panes are painted
> with little scenes like you were looking out the window, and these
> then hung up in bay windows or turned into wall hangings.
>
> I'm going to also post this question to the on-line glass group,
> the bungi.com folk, so they can also give you some more
> uses for these old wooden windows.
>
> Bungi folk:  Anyone else have some more uses?  Please cc: the
> reply to Starr at REGGISTARR@aol.com
>
> Christie A. Wood - IGGA Exec. Director
> North Wales, PA USA
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Thu Jun 22 01:13:28 2000
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X-Path: ns.sympatico.ca!heinze.g
From: heinze.g@ns.sympatico.ca (Gail HeinzeMiline)
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Kilns
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:35:18 -0300
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Glass with Class
Precedence: bulk

Thanks guys, for advice on the kiln.  Now I have a new dilemma. The
Canadian suppliers I deal with only carry Evenheat kilns. And I will need
to get the studio rewired because of higher ampage output with the Paragon
GF8B, so now I am considering the Evenheat GTS 18-9, slightly bigger and
more powerful than the Paragon. Since I will ahve to get rewired any way,
might as well go for the 240 volt.  Oredering from the States is way to
expensive, so I am much better off going with Canadian suppliers.
I am hoping the electrician doesn't come up with even more problems!!

Gail in Nova Scotia

Christie A. Wood wrote:

> Message text written by Gail HeinzeMiline
> >After a web search and looking at Brad's great site, I am considering
> the Paragon GF 8B as the kiln that may best suit my needs. Have any of
> you comments for or against this kiln? Any problems?
> And is the digital pyrometer worth the extra expenseas compared to the
> analoq?
> Thanks again!!
>
> Gail in Nova Scotia<
>
> Gail,
>
> Are you in luck!  I got my Paragon GF 8B in my studio a couple
> of weeks ago....brand spankin' new......and I love it.  I purchased
> the analog pyrometer.  It's almost as accurate as the digital,
> but I don't need critical accuracy with my bent-glass lampshade
> repair work.  The needle of the pyrometer takes up the spy
> hole drilled into the side of the kiln, so if you want to peep into
> the kiln during firing you will have to drill another spy hole, or
> else learn to not peep into the kiln until it's reached a sufficiently
> high temperature to avoid stressing the glass.
>
> The heating elements are in the lid only on the GF 8B, so you
> have to have an asbestos-type glove for handling the lid
> and reaching into the kiln if you are going to do glass manipulation
> while the kiln is hot.
>
> The only suprise for me was that my kiln showed up with a
> commercial-grade prong on the electrical outlet...the kind
> with 3 metal prongs, one being the standard round one and
> the other 2 set up in a T configuration rather than parallel to
> each other.  I had to rewire my electrical outlet to accept this
> type of high-voltage plug, but that was easy (thanks to the
> nice guy at Home Depot).
>
> It took 6 weeks from order date to delivery date.  I've been
> using it every day since then....lots of pent-up demand for
> bent-lampshade repairs!
>
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Thu Jun 22 13:22:49 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:PsalmNinetyOne4@cs.com" <PsalmNinetyOne4@cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Question on kiln overglaze
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:58:25 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Bungians and pj,

This message was forewarded over to me, and I'm not into kiln
work such as this and cannot answer the question myself.  Can
anyone help Lisa Flynn out here?  If so, please reply directly
to her at PsalmNinetyOne4@cs.com.  Thanks!

...Christie Wood, IGGA Exec. Director

Message text written by INTERNET:PsalmNinetyOne4@cs.com
>I'm trying to find an overglaze to work with the kiln-forming work I'm
doing. =

 I'm working with clear float glass. Super spray leaves a milky film and =

Spray A turns yellow. Is there something called Clear Coat? Where can I
find =

it?
I also read a recipe in Glass Craftsman to make it myself. 20 Mule Team =

Borax, distilled water and TSP. That would be simple but in refrence to t=
he

borax it said "not soap".  What is it if it's not soap? =

Stuggling in North Carolina
Lisa Flynn<
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 23 10:10:35 2000
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From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Looking For SG Artist Joy Smith of Massachusetts
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:22:25 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
Precedence: bulk

Hello All,

I'm looking for stained glass artist Joy Smith. She made stained glass
sailboats and sold them at The Square Circle located in Rockport
Massachusetts in September 1990. Please email me personally if you have
any information on this artist. A rather large commission is waiting for

her if she can be found. Also, if you sold art through this store please

email me as well.

Thank you,

Pamela Burns Tappan

--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://stainedglassartists.com




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From owner-glass Fri Jun 23 11:06:09 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: dremel information
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:39:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

If I were to get a dremel...what do I need ?

Basically...I know what one looks like, but what's the difference
between the dremels sitting on the shelf in Home Depot and what I 
would use with Glass?  

Anyone care to help me make an educated purchase?
thanks....

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 23 15:33:47 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: dremel information
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:12:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

if i were to get a new dremel i'd probably get the cordless one. mainly
because it's so usefull around the house.

for glass you'll need to find diamond coated bits. though not sure where. as
for general parts, most of what you need comes with the tool...



---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 1:40 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: dremel information
>
>
> If I were to get a dremel...what do I need ?
>
> Basically...I know what one looks like, but what's the difference
> between the dremels sitting on the shelf in Home Depot and what I
> would use with Glass?
>
> Anyone care to help me make an educated purchase?
> thanks....
>
> Suzanne
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 23 19:08:35 2000
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From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: esavad@home.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: dremel information
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 21:48:05 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dremels are very useful in a stained glass studio especially for repair work. 
Just the standard dremel tool is great but there are some things that you can 
add to the kit like the drill press for the dremel and the extension tool 
that makes it look like a dentists drill. I use mine with just about every 
bit imaginable but I especially like the diamond cut off wheels that I get at 
a tool dealer that fit it.they are great for cutting zinc. The cordless does 
not have the power of the electric cord dremel.I have both but really don't 
use the cordless much because of its lack of power.
Beveler4 (Stan)
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From owner-glass Sat Jun 24 06:12:16 2000
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: dremel information
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 05:49:11 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net>>
Precedence: bulk


Hi Suzanne,

Be sure to get one that is VARIABLE SPEED.  Different bits for
different purposes have different running speeds.  Polishing bits are
meant to run slower than bits for wood carving.  Diamond engraving
bits (metal/glass) should be run at a medium-high speed (I think).
Cut-off wheels should be run at high speed ... and so on.

Some models have speed presets on the body of the tool; generally
allowing 5,000 to 30,000 rpm in 5,000 rpm increments.

One can also use a foot controller (kind of like a sewing machine)
allowing the same range but in a continuously variable range.

FYI, Dremel is not the TYPE of tool, Dremel is a manufacturer (with a
good marketing dept <G>, though not as good as Xerox).

Foredom is another manufacturer ... AFAIK, this is the one the pros
use.  Its a little more expensive, but is a tool for life.

Rotozip is the latest rage in this type of tool.  Its basically a
standard high speed (30,000 rpm) cutting tool very similar to Dremel
and Foredom except for the bits which have a patented downward
sloping spiral cutting edge allowing what is essentially a drill bit
to cut sideways.

The glass people are not the ones to ask about this, rather ask the
POWER WOOD CARVERS as this is their principal tool.

Finally, it is essentially you protect your eyes while using one of
these beasts.  At 30,000 rpm, mistakes happen rapidly and ... well
... just pay attention to what you're doing.

Good luck ...... Bob K.






Suzanne Gunn wrote:

> If I were to get a dremel...what do I need ?
>
> Basically...I know what one looks like, but what's the difference
> between the dremels sitting on the shelf in Home Depot and what I
> would use with Glass?
>
> Anyone care to help me make an educated purchase?
> thanks....
>
> Suzanne
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sat Jun 24 09:43:39 2000
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From: "Roger Kean" <glasshappy@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Help on an etched / copper foiled panel
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:28:10 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I just completed a copper filed panel which included some etched 
pieces....Therein lies the problem, the etched pieces seem to be affected by 
the foil or something to where the edges are appearing as though they are 
slightly wet or damp.  I cleaned well with soap & water and dried 
thoroughly.  2 weeks later the growth reappears.

Any ideas, I have considered sealing all the etched surfaces but what should 
I seal them with?

Any help would be appreciated.

Rob
________________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Sat Jun 24 10:08:54 2000
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Need Pro SG Artist: Location India
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 07:32:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
Precedence: bulk


Hi all,

Know of anyone in India that does stained glass?

Thanks,

Pam

--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://stainedglassartists.com
A Division of: Moswood Mountain Ltd.
http://moswoodmountainltd.com


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From owner-glass Sat Jun 24 21:35:50 2000
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Bungi Group <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Glossary of Glass Terms
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 05:59:28 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk


http://www.ppg.com/gls_ppgglass/architect/glossary.htm

This link is an excellent reference, best I've
seen
for glass terms, and will be good to bookmark
for future reference.

Bob K.


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From owner-glass Sun Jun 25 10:39:44 2000
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X-Path: home.com!lorley
From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: etching
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:53:28 -0700
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000625095115.00abe810@mail.rdc1.az.home.com>
Precedence: bulk

	Another etching question. Do I assemble my business card holders first and 
then etch or etch first and then assemble?  Will flux and/or patina stain 
the etching? Thx, Lorley etching newbie

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From owner-glass Sun Jun 25 14:21:53 2000
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X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz
From: "Elaine" <wmagdycz@massed.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: etching
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:24:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<4.3.2.7.2.20000625095115.00abe810@mail.rdc1.az.home.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Etch first, then assemble. It's too easy to get some of the etch/water mix on the
rest of the glass when you wash off the etching cream. If it gets on the glass, it
will leave a cloudy spot that's there for eternity. We try not to get patina on
the glass, etched or not, s is, so I can't help you out there. Elaine

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lorley Oneyear" <lorley@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 12:53 PM
Subject: etching


> assemble my business card holders first and
> then etch ........Will flux and/or patina stain
> the etching? >
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Jun 25 17:31:21 2000
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From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Subject: etching
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:53:28 -0700
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000625095115.00abe810@mail.rdc1.az.home.com>
Precedence: bulk

	Another etching question. Do I assemble my business card holders first and 
then etch or etch first and then assemble?  Will flux and/or patina stain 
the etching? Thx, Lorley etching newbie

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From owner-glass Sun Jun 25 21:38:40 2000
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From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: lorley@home.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: etching
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:49:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Lorley,

I etched my card holder first, then assembled the pieces. It was a lot
easier to work on the flat glass than to have to arrange my hand over an
object. But you do run the risk of messing up the holder while assembling
after you've done all the hard work of carefully etching your piece. If I
were doing just a bit of easy freehand etching, I think that I'd do the
assembly first then attempt the etching. I made a fairly detailed stencil
with an exacto knife that was going to be difficult to do on a nonlevel
surface.

Peggy

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From owner-glass Sun Jun 25 22:38:37 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Dremel's
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:19:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I went to Home Depot today...and starting out talking to the Hilti rep.  

I said "I understand that "Dremel" is a brand name, what's the tool
called?  He said..."It's just like Kleenex"  That's not what it is, but
that's what everyone calls it. (he didnt know what it was called)

I discovered, they are "Rotary tools" ;o)

I went in to check out the Black and Decker Rotary tool...and was
convinced that the Dremel was what I wanted.  Actually, it was my
brother in law...  ANYWAY.....  I got a dremel today...have already worn
out 3 polishing attachments! lol...dont think they were made to 
get down to it!   I put those puppies to work, and wore them out
pronto!  Tomorrow..Im going for more. It's really wonderful for
polishing.

If it were up to me to pay for it, I'd still be using elbow grease, but
my brother in law wanted to do this for me. (surprised me, but ok
if he insists)  And I have discovered all kinds of things it'll get used
for.

I dont anticipate cutting holes in glass...since Ive never needed to
before, but I do like that I can cut zinc with it, and other metals, and
I can polish, and sharpen tools etc...

It came with lots of attachments, and also came with the flexable shaft
extender, I think I'll get lots of use out of that.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 26 18:49:11 2000
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From: Connie Bartel <BLUEHERON@etinternet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: help with patina
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:11:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I need input. I just finished a foiled panel and surrounded the panel in
zinc came.
I stained my lines black. I attempted to stain the zinc came with black
patina for lead
and it wouldn't take hardly at all. So I attempted to stain it with black
patina for lead.
It initially looked OK but as I cleaned it off it now is all blotchy. I
tried to stain it again
and it stripped the patina off. Now what? The border needs to show.

Is there a paint I can use that is a similar color to black lead lines??
HELP!
Connie Bartel
blueheron@etinternet.net	

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From owner-glass Mon Jun 26 21:08:00 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Connie Bartel <BLUEHERON@etinternet.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with patina
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:29:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

What I do is, use 0000 steel wool on it prior to applying patina.
After applying patina...buff it with the brush you use on your lead.
If you dont do lead construction, use a stiff bristled brush and buff it
up.

You might just try buffing it at this point.  If that doesnt work, 
try the steel wool, patina, buff.

good luck

Suzanne

Connie Bartel wrote:
> 
> I need input. I just finished a foiled panel and surrounded the panel in
> zinc came.
> I stained my lines black. I attempted to stain the zinc came with black
> patina for lead
> and it wouldn't take hardly at all. So I attempted to stain it with black
> patina for lead.
> It initially looked OK but as I cleaned it off it now is all blotchy. I
> tried to stain it again
> and it stripped the patina off. Now what? The border needs to show.
> 
> Is there a paint I can use that is a similar color to black lead lines??
> HELP!
> Connie Bartel
> blueheron@etinternet.net
> 
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From owner-glass Mon Jun 26 21:20:50 2000
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X-Path: therural.net!stone
From: Kate Nazarenko <stone@therural.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Glass kiln purchase
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 22:19:09 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi.....I was wondering if anyone has had any experience, good or bad,
with Jen-Ken kilns?  I am considering the GS-18-E.
Inside measurements are 18" x 11".  It has side elements as well as
those in the lid, which is important as I hope to use it to fire small
batches of pottery as well.  It has a two year warrenty.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Kate

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From owner-glass Mon Jun 26 22:24:42 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: stone@therural.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Glass kiln purchase
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:00:39 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 6/26/00 9:22:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
stone@therural.net writes:

> Hi.....I was wondering if anyone has had any experience, good or bad,
>  with Jen-Ken kilns?  I am considering the GS-18-E.
>  Inside measurements are 18" x 11".  It has side elements as well as
>  those in the lid, which is important as I hope to use it to fire small
>  batches of pottery as well.  It has a two year warrenty.
>  
>  Any thoughts?

I do not have the specs on Jen-Ken kilns but most glass kilns have a top 
firing temperature of about 1700'F. This is about 500'F short of most pottery 
firing temperatures.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 27 05:09:23 2000
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X-Path: POBox.com!nadinesfolly
From: "Nadine BethSchneider" <nadinesfolly@POBox.com>
To: "Connie Bartel" <BLUEHERON@etinternet.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: help with patina
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:55:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Connie!

I've used black enamel spray paint from Walmart to achieve a real black zinc
frame.
I masked off the glass with several layers of newspaper and placed the panel
on more newspaper and then sprayed one side. When it was dry I turned it
over did the other side and finally checked to see that the bottom of the
zinc was black, too.  It worked for me and I liked the real shiney black
finish.  Hope this helps you!

Nadine

Nadine Beth Schneider
Nadine's Folly, Ltd
www.nadinesfolly.com


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From owner-glass Tue Jun 27 05:38:54 2000
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From: "Nadine BethSchneider" <nadinesfolly@POBox.com>
To: "Kate Nazarenko" <stone@therural.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Glass kiln purchase
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:57:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I bought an oval kiln last December from them and I've been really happy
with their customer service and the product itself.

Nadine

Nadine Beth Schneider
Nadine's Folly, Ltd
www.nadinesfolly.com


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From owner-glass Tue Jun 27 06:41:49 2000
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From: Mar333Wood@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Odyssey 
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:18:54 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
I have had a request from an overseas friend who is interested in making the 
Odyssey pattern number T1533. He would like to see if anyone has a used mold 
and pattern that he could buy. Since shipping is so expensive, the price 
would have to be quite reasonable.
If anyone can help, please contact me.

Thanks,
Marti
Woodmar@Bigfoot.com

http://members.aol.com/Mar333Wood/WOODMAR.html
ICQ Number:  19326169
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From: Kate Nazarenko <stone@therural.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Glass Kiln purchase
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 08:26:16 -0700
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--------------3E7440713FAACA718087C55C
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Nadine and Margie, thanks for that info.  Actually, Centre DeVerre is
where I came across the GS-18-E.  I had also been wondering if the
little viewing window actually worked.   I love the idea (almost like
having a little glass window in your abdomen while pregnant...wouldn't
that be neat!  What was God thinking, leaving that out?)

I don't know what I was thinking with the duel purpose idea of
glass/pottery....I do need a smaller ceramic kiln, as my large one is
impractical for glaze testing or whipping up a quick gift for someone.
I guess my wishful thinking got in the way of mentally registering the
actual firing temps.

Thanks all,
Kate (in Missouri)

--------------3E7440713FAACA718087C55C
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
&nbsp;
<br>Nadine and Margie, thanks for that info.&nbsp; Actually, Centre DeVerre
is where I came across the GS-18-E.&nbsp; I had also been wondering if
the little viewing window actually worked.&nbsp;&nbsp; I <u>love</u> the
idea (almost like having a little glass window in your abdomen while pregnant...wouldn't
that be neat!&nbsp; What was God thinking, leaving that out?)
<p>I don't know what <u>I</u> was thinking with the duel purpose idea of
glass/pottery....I do need a smaller ceramic kiln, as my large one is impractical
for glaze testing or whipping up a quick gift for someone.&nbsp; I guess
my wishful thinking got in the way of mentally registering the actual firing
temps.
<p>Thanks all,
<br>Kate (in Missouri)</html>

--------------3E7440713FAACA718087C55C--

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From owner-glass Tue Jun 27 07:57:41 2000
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X-Path: warmglass.com!mbwalker
From: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@warmglass.com>
To: "Kate Nazarenko" <stone@therural.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Glass kiln purchase
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 08:21:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I own a very similar Jen-Ken kiln.  The kiln works well for glass fusing and
slumping, but would probably not be satisfactory for ceramics.  Its
top-rated temperature is 1800 F; most clays require 2200-2300 F.  (I say
"most" because there are some "low-fire" clays that only need to be fired to
around 1800, but I have no experience with these.)

Brad Walker

------------------
For information about warm glass techniques and processes
such as fusing, slumping, and kiln forming, please visit
the Warm Glass website at http://www.warmglass.com


----- Original Message -----
From: Kate Nazarenko <stone@therural.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 1:19 AM
Subject: Glass kiln purchase


> Hi.....I was wondering if anyone has had any experience, good or bad,
> with Jen-Ken kilns?  I am considering the GS-18-E.
> Inside measurements are 18" x 11".  It has side elements as well as
> those in the lid, which is important as I hope to use it to fire small
> batches of pottery as well.  It has a two year warrenty.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Kate
>
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 27 08:27:35 2000
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: Kate Nazarenko <stone@therural.net>, glass
Subject: Re: Glass kiln purchase
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:41:41 PDT
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[In the message entitled "Glass kiln purchase" on Jun 26, 22:19, Kate Nazarenko writes:]
> Hi.....I was wondering if anyone has had any experience, good or bad,
> with Jen-Ken kilns?  I am considering the GS-18-E.
> Inside measurements are 18" x 11".  It has side elements as well as
> those in the lid, which is important as I hope to use it to fire small
> batches of pottery as well.  It has a two year warrenty.

All I can say is I like mine!
I have the bead annealing kiln which I use for firing small jewlery pieces.

-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 27 08:50:53 2000
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From: Kate Nazarenko <stone@therural.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Re-sending invisible message :-)  (Was glass kiln purchase)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:17:55 -0700
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Gee, where did my message go....that's never happened to me before!
Sorry!

Kate Nazarenko wrote:

>
> Nadine and Margie, thanks for that info.  Actually, Centre DeVerre is
> where I came across the GS-18-E.  I had also been wondering if the
> little viewing window actually worked.   I love the idea (almost like
> having a little glass window in your abdomen while pregnant...wouldn't
> that be neat!  What was God thinking, leaving that out?)
>
> I don't know what I was thinking with the duel purpose idea of
> glass/pottery....I do need a smaller ceramic kiln, as my large one is
> impractical for glaze testing or whipping up a quick gift for
> someone.  I guess my wishful thinking got in the way of mentally
> registering the actual firing temps.
>
> Thanks all,
> Kate (in Missouri)

--------------1274C61D0941DFF859F8BDC6
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Gee, where did my message go....that's never happened to me before!&nbsp;
Sorry!
<p>Kate Nazarenko wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;
<br>Nadine and Margie, thanks for that info.&nbsp; Actually, Centre DeVerre
is where I came across the GS-18-E.&nbsp; I had also been wondering if
the little viewing window actually worked.&nbsp;&nbsp; I <u>love</u> the
idea (almost like having a little glass window in your abdomen while pregnant...wouldn't
that be neat!&nbsp; What was God thinking, leaving that out?)
<p>I don't know what <u>I</u> was thinking with the duel purpose idea of
glass/pottery....I do need a smaller ceramic kiln, as my large one is impractical
for glaze testing or whipping up a quick gift for someone.&nbsp; I guess
my wishful thinking got in the way of mentally registering the actual firing
temps.
<p>Thanks all,
<br>Kate (in Missouri)</blockquote>
</html>

--------------1274C61D0941DFF859F8BDC6--

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From owner-glass Tue Jun 27 09:29:17 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass books/designs from Australia
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:40:46 +0000
Message-ID: <200006271537.LAA22968@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk

I just stumbled across this site, which has some interesting looking 
patterns and books that some of you might be interested in:

http://www.glassbooks.com.au:80/

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Jun 27 15:25:37 2000
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From: "Bev Kelly" <till8er@alimac.com>
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:26:19 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_009D_01BFE043.A8FDCFE0
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Any recomendations on books that teach one how to do 3d stain glass.  I =
have seen some pretty pieces and would like to look into making a few =
pieces.

Bev

------=_NextPart_000_009D_01BFE043.A8FDCFE0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2722.2800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Any recomendations on books that teach one how to do =
3d stain=20
glass.&nbsp; I have seen some pretty pieces and would like to look into =
making a=20
few pieces.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Bev</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Jun 27 22:17:28 2000
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X-Path: ETINTERNET.NET!BLUEHERON
From: Connie Bartel <BLUEHERON@ETINTERNET.NET>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: wonderful patina help
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:01:30 -0400
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I thank you to all who responded to my situation. What a great group with
always lots of
great help and new ideas! I ended up using steel wool on the zinc and then
using a Q-tip
to put zinc patina back on. It turned out much better. The piece is going
to be above a kitchen
window so with the heighth it will be OK. But I am going to remember all
the other suggestions
too when it comes up again. Thanks again. Connie

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From owner-glass Wed Jun 28 06:42:52 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: zinc patina
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:24:59 -0400
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Connie,
Classique makes a great patina that is just for zinc came.  It goes on
easily and does a great job.  The best part is that is doesn't smear and
come off when you clean your piece.
There are other brands out there that do a good job, but I like Classique
best.
Moya

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From owner-glass Wed Jun 28 09:59:19 2000
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From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: patina
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:14:07 -0700
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--=====================_3183040==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I've always had that problem too. I just purchased Classique Black patina 
for zinc from Warner Crivellero. Is this going to give a nice consistent 
black?? Or should I paint it as Nadine suggested in an earlier post?? I'm 
curious too. Lorley


>>I need input. I just finished a foiled panel and surrounded the panel in
>>zinc came.
>>I stained my lines black. I attempted to stain the zinc came with black
>>patina for lead
>>and it wouldn't take hardly at all. So I attempted to stain it with black
>>patina for lead.
>>It initially looked OK but as I cleaned it off it now is all blotchy. I
>>tried to stain it again
>>and it stripped the patina off. Now what? The border needs to show.
>>
>>Is there a paint I can use that is a similar color to black lead lines??
>>HELP!
>>Connie Bartel


--=====================_3183040==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<font size=3>I've always had that problem too. I just purchased Classique
Black patina for zinc from Warner Crivellero. Is this going to give a
nice consistent black?? Or should I paint it as Nadine suggested in an
earlier post?? I'm curious too. Lorley<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite><blockquote type=cite cite>I need input. I
just finished a foiled panel and surrounded the panel in<br>
zinc came.<br>
I stained my lines black. I attempted to stain the zinc came with
black<br>
patina for lead<br>
and it wouldn't take hardly at all. So I attempted to stain it with
black<br>
patina for lead.<br>
It initially looked OK but as I cleaned it off it now is all blotchy.
I<br>
tried to stain it again<br>
and it stripped the patina off. Now what? The border needs to show.<br>
<br>
Is there a paint I can use that is a similar color to black lead
lines??<br>
HELP!<br>
Connie Bartel</font></blockquote></blockquote><br>
</html>

--=====================_3183040==_.ALT--

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From owner-glass Wed Jun 28 10:17:20 2000
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From: vern sila <vsila@uswest.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Portraitures
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:32:44 -0700
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I recently found a site in Cole Sonafrank's list where the
artist specializes in portraitures.  I, unfortunately,
didn't bookmark it and wished I had as I'm unable to find
the site again.  With what little I can help to described
any of his (her's?) pieces, one of them was an outstanding
rendition of W.C. Fields.  Is anyone familiar with this
site?

Thanks in advance



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From owner-glass Wed Jun 28 12:13:23 2000
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X-Path: one.net!gwood
From: "Gregg Wood" <gwood@one.net>
To: "Glass @ Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: patina
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:28:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<4.3.2.7.2.20000628091033.00acfc20@mail.rdc1.az.home.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Patina & Zinc are just a pain.

A couple of keys I've found:

Patina for Zinc doesn't work.  OK, at least not well.
Patina for lead works better.

The Zinc must be SCRUPULOUSLY clean.
Zinc off the shelf just won't do. No sir, not at all.
When you're cleaning your panel, scrub that Zinc.
A stainless steel 'Pot-Scrubby' works best and
doesn't contaminate the Zinc.

After scrubbing I rinse & dry.  I 'have' heard that
minerals in the water will cause color variations
in the patina on Zinc.

Using something along the lines of a cotton swap
(I use a tooth brush), dip it in the patina an 'blot'
it onto the Zinc.  Don't wipe and NEVER go back
over where you've been.  Let it dry.  (Yeah, I know,
but let it dry).  You'll end up with a black powdery
surface.  Lightly wipe that off.

You should end up with a fairly even and deep black
surface.  Wax it and be done with it.

Begin Diatribe
WHY!?
The main active ingredients in a patina is an acid
and a salt.  Black for Lead is Nitric acid and
Selenium Oxide.  The acid for different patinas are
of varying strength.  The acid in black for Zinc is
very mild compared to the acid for Lead.  The acid
'prepares' the surface of the metal, opening up the
crystalline structure.  The salt then gets in there
and reacts with the metal creating a thin layer of
corrosion which is not Zinc and not the salt.  It's black
and generally pleasing.  Like the nice green of a
natural patina on copper.  Different manufacturers
add different 'secret' ingredients that control how
the patina process takes place.  They're also under
the gun to produce a 'Consumer Friendly' product
that won't kill you in the process.  (Decreases repeat
business ya know.)

The strength of the acid determines the depth or
thickness of this new layer.  Stronger means deeper.
Zinc is a relatively active metal.  Eats away in an acid
pretty readily.  Lead is less active.  More durable.
That's why the acid for Zinc is mild.  Which is why
black patina for Zinc doesn't perform well.  It's also why
the patina for lead makes a nice deep black on Zinc.
(Initially deeper than that even on Lead.)  But it's also
why when you reapply the Lead patina on Zinc it gets
splotchy.  The stronger acid reacts with the Zinc at the
boundary layer between the Zinc and the patina.  This
causes the patina to release.  There goes the black.
It also leaves yet another layer which isn't Zinc or the
same salt.  It's not black.  This layer is more durable
than the old patina layer.  You can put as much patina
as you want and those splotches just won't take the
patina.  Your only hope there is to scrub it back down
again and try it over.  That physically removes that
last 'bad' layer and prepares the surface for the second
try.

END Diatribe.

Things to try:
Warm the Zinc black patina.  Will make it more active.
Add table salt to the black to lead.  Reputed to make
a harder 'crusty' layer on Zinc.  I've had no personal
experience.

That's all I know.  And probably a little bit more...

-G

----- Original Message -----
From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 1:22 PM
Subject: patina


> --=====================_3183040==_.ALT
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> I've always had that problem too. I just purchased Classique Black patina
> for zinc from Warner Crivellero. Is this going to give a nice consistent
> black?? Or should I paint it as Nadine suggested in an earlier post?? I'm
> curious too. Lorley
>
>
> >>I need input. I just finished a foiled panel and surrounded the panel in
> >>zinc came.
> >>I stained my lines black. I attempted to stain the zinc came with black
> >>patina for lead
> >>and it wouldn't take hardly at all. So I attempted to stain it with
black
> >>patina for lead.
> >>It initially looked OK but as I cleaned it off it now is all blotchy. I
> >>tried to stain it again
> >>and it stripped the patina off. Now what? The border needs to show.
> >>
> >>Is there a paint I can use that is a similar color to black lead lines??
> >>HELP!
> >>Connie Bartel
>
>
> --=====================_3183040==_.ALT
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>
> <html>
> <font size=3>I've always had that problem too. I just purchased Classique
> Black patina for zinc from Warner Crivellero. Is this going to give a
> nice consistent black?? Or should I paint it as Nadine suggested in an
> earlier post?? I'm curious too. Lorley<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <blockquote type=cite cite><blockquote type=cite cite>I need input. I
> just finished a foiled panel and surrounded the panel in<br>
> zinc came.<br>
> I stained my lines black. I attempted to stain the zinc came with
> black<br>
> patina for lead<br>
> and it wouldn't take hardly at all. So I attempted to stain it with
> black<br>
> patina for lead.<br>
> It initially looked OK but as I cleaned it off it now is all blotchy.
> I<br>
> tried to stain it again<br>
> and it stripped the patina off. Now what? The border needs to show.<br>
> <br>
> Is there a paint I can use that is a similar color to black lead
> lines??<br>
> HELP!<br>
> Connie Bartel</font></blockquote></blockquote><br>
> </html>
>
> --=====================_3183040==_.ALT--
>
> ----
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>

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From owner-glass Wed Jun 28 15:23:56 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "Connie Bartel" <BLUEHERON@etinternet.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: help with patina
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:44:59 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

that you need is black patina for ZINC... i'm pretty sure it exsists.


---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Connie Bartel [mailto:BLUEHERON@etinternet.net]
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 9:11 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: help with patina
>
>
> I need input. I just finished a foiled panel and surrounded the panel in
> zinc came.
> I stained my lines black. I attempted to stain the zinc came with black
> patina for lead
> and it wouldn't take hardly at all. So I attempted to stain it with black
> patina for lead.
> It initially looked OK but as I cleaned it off it now is all blotchy. I
> tried to stain it again
> and it stripped the patina off. Now what? The border needs to show.
>
> Is there a paint I can use that is a similar color to black lead lines??
> HELP!
> Connie Bartel
> blueheron@etinternet.net
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Jun 28 15:25:16 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "Lorley Oneyear" <lorley@home.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: patina
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:46:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<4.3.2.7.2.20000628091033.00acfc20@mail.rdc1.az.home.com>>
Precedence: bulk

maybe the zinc isn't clean enough. and the blotchy light areas are either
corrosion, flux, or oil of some kind.


---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lorley Oneyear [mailto:lorley@home.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 12:14 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: patina
>
>
> --=====================_3183040==_.ALT
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> I've always had that problem too. I just purchased Classique Black patina
> for zinc from Warner Crivellero. Is this going to give a nice consistent
> black?? Or should I paint it as Nadine suggested in an earlier post?? I'm
> curious too. Lorley
>
>
> >>I need input. I just finished a foiled panel and surrounded the panel in
> >>zinc came.
> >>I stained my lines black. I attempted to stain the zinc came with black
> >>patina for lead
> >>and it wouldn't take hardly at all. So I attempted to stain it
> with black
> >>patina for lead.
> >>It initially looked OK but as I cleaned it off it now is all blotchy. I
> >>tried to stain it again
> >>and it stripped the patina off. Now what? The border needs to show.
> >>
> >>Is there a paint I can use that is a similar color to black lead lines??
> >>HELP!
> >>Connie Bartel
>
>
> --=====================_3183040==_.ALT
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>
> <html>
> <font size=3>I've always had that problem too. I just purchased Classique
> Black patina for zinc from Warner Crivellero. Is this going to give a
> nice consistent black?? Or should I paint it as Nadine suggested in an
> earlier post?? I'm curious too. Lorley<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <blockquote type=cite cite><blockquote type=cite cite>I need input. I
> just finished a foiled panel and surrounded the panel in<br>
> zinc came.<br>
> I stained my lines black. I attempted to stain the zinc came with
> black<br>
> patina for lead<br>
> and it wouldn't take hardly at all. So I attempted to stain it with
> black<br>
> patina for lead.<br>
> It initially looked OK but as I cleaned it off it now is all blotchy.
> I<br>
> tried to stain it again<br>
> and it stripped the patina off. Now what? The border needs to show.<br>
> <br>
> Is there a paint I can use that is a similar color to black lead
> lines??<br>
> HELP!<br>
> Connie Bartel</font></blockquote></blockquote><br>
> </html>
>
> --=====================_3183040==_.ALT--
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Thu Jun 29 21:33:49 2000
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X-Path: foxinternet.com!lin
From: "lin payton" <lin@foxinternet.com>
To: "Connie Bartel" <BLUEHERON@ETINTERNET.NET>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: wonderful patina help
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:04:24 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

i wonder if you might be willing to share the information that came to
you..........

This frustrates me many times....... i know lots of questions are asked that
I could learn from, but only a small fraction of the answers are seen by the
group.......  is there a reason folks don't want to share with the group?
layla


----- Original Message -----
From: "Connie Bartel" <BLUEHERON@ETINTERNET.NET>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 7:01 PM
Subject: wonderful patina help


> I thank you to all who responded to my situation. What a great group with
> always lots of
> great help and new ideas! I ended up using steel wool on the zinc and then
> using a Q-tip
> to put zinc patina back on. It turned out much better. The piece is going
> to be above a kitchen
> window so with the heighth it will be OK. But I am going to remember all
> the other suggestions
> too when it comes up again. Thanks again. Connie
>
> ----
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> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Jun 29 22:43:27 2000
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X-Path: pro-ns.net!jdahlin
From: "J. Dahlin" <jdahlin@pro-ns.net>
To: Bungi Glass Group <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Messages (or lack of) -- NON GLASS
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:37:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I don't know if we are having computer problems but the bungi messages
have been very few and far between lately.  In the last 24 hours there
haven't been any and some days it seems we are deluged with messages.  I
can't believe that Bungians aren't using their computers.   Is everyone
taking the summer off except me????  I have noticed other people
commenting on this from time to time, but during those times we were
getting messages.

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 08:00:58 2000
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X-Path: home.com!leetollett1
From: Lee Tollett <leetollett1@home.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Good morning
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 05:43:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hello to everyone
     I haven't posted in a long time, so I thought
that I would say hi to you all. Im always here,
just lurking in the wings. 

     I agree with Lin Payton about the questions
being answered on the group.  Its always nice to
read how others do things even if you have heard
it a thousand times. I do remember when a couple
of you got chastised for "chit chatting", but I
also
enjoy reading that stuff as well. You never know
where a useful bit of trivia will come from.

     Have a day everyone......   Lee
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 10:31:13 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Depdee70
From: Depdee70@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: greetings
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:52:56 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Lee T. and all friends...Have a happy 4th of July..be safe ..your friend 
Dee W.
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 15:41:52 2000
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "Lee Tollett" <leetollett1@home.com>,
Subject: Re: Good morning
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:02:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Lee,
I agree.  I don't always respond but I always read and learn.  Things are
slow, it is summer, and I guess folks are away.
Linda Jo

-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Tollett <leetollett1@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 11:16 AM
Subject: Good morning


>Hello to everyone
>     I haven't posted in a long time, so I thought
>that I would say hi to you all. Im always here,
>just lurking in the wings.
>
>     I agree with Lin Payton about the questions
>being answered on the group.  Its always nice to
>read how others do things even if you have heard
>it a thousand times. I do remember when a couple
>of you got chastised for "chit chatting", but I
>also
>enjoy reading that stuff as well. You never know
>where a useful bit of trivia will come from.
>
>     Have a day everyone......   Lee
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 16:46:24 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "J. Dahlin" <jdahlin@pro-ns.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Messages (or lack of) -- NON GLASS
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:34:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

there hasn't been a huge amount latley. just here and there. i guess it's
either too hot, or people are on vacation.


---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. Dahlin [mailto:jdahlin@pro-ns.net]
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 1:38 AM
> To: Bungi Glass Group
> Subject: Messages (or lack of) -- NON GLASS
>
>
> I don't know if we are having computer problems but the bungi messages
> have been very few and far between lately.  In the last 24 hours there
> haven't been any and some days it seems we are deluged with messages.  I
> can't believe that Bungians aren't using their computers.   Is everyone
> taking the summer off except me????  I have noticed other people
> commenting on this from time to time, but during those times we were
> getting messages.
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 17:03:29 2000
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X-Path: juno.com!pennyante
From: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
To: andor@ilnk.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Good morning
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 05:08:04 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi guys...
Me, too. I just don't always have two cents to put in. I'm always
listening, though. I save the messages I think may come in handy later in
a special "Glass Chat" file on my desktop. I just went back in there a
couple of days ago to look for ones I remember seeing about measuring out
for round windows. Everything sticks somewhere in this cluttered old
memory of mine!
Stephanie


On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:02:32 -0400 "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
writes:
> Lee,
> I agree.  I don't always respond but I always read and learn.  
> Things are
> slow, it is summer, and I guess folks are away.
> Linda Jo
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Tollett <leetollett1@home.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 11:16 AM
> Subject: Good morning
> 
> 
> >Hello to everyone
> >     I haven't posted in a long time, so I thought
> >that I would say hi to you all. Im always here,
> >just lurking in the wings.
> >
> >     I agree with Lin Payton about the questions
> >being answered on the group.  Its always nice to
> >read how others do things even if you have heard
> >it a thousand times. I do remember when a couple
> >of you got chastised for "chit chatting", but I
> >also
> >enjoy reading that stuff as well. You never know
> >where a useful bit of trivia will come from.
> >
> >     Have a day everyone......   Lee
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 17:03:31 2000
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X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Good morning
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 00 17:50:56 
Message-ID: <200006302353.RAA25450@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

As for me, here in Denver, we're getting ready for the Glass at the Gardens show.. a Big 
Deal.. and I'm tired, what with working 45 hrs at Lockheed, Doing the editor stuff for the 
club, working on several websites, AND starting on Christmas stuff already.. (I want to 
be prepared this year)

Oh yeah, and I'm going to Portland in November despite all!! Anyone else going? Who 
do I get to meet in person?

Candy
On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:02:32 -0400, Linda Jo Letscher wrote:

>Lee,
>I agree.  I don't always respond but I always read and learn.  Things are
>slow, it is summer, and I guess folks are away.
>Linda Jo
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lee Tollett <leetollett1@home.com>
>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Friday, June 30, 2000 11:16 AM
>Subject: Good morning
>
>
>>Hello to everyone
>>     I haven't posted in a long time, so I thought
>>that I would say hi to you all. Im always here,
>>just lurking in the wings.
>>
>>     I agree with Lin Payton about the questions
>>being answered on the group.  Its always nice to
>>read how others do things even if you have heard
>>it a thousand times. I do remember when a couple
>>of you got chastised for "chit chatting", but I
>>also
>>enjoy reading that stuff as well. You never know
>>where a useful bit of trivia will come from.
>>
>>     Have a day everyone......   Lee

----
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 17:20:21 2000
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X-Path: mindspring.com!glassgirl
From: "cheryl zipf" <glassgirl@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: speed
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 19:00:46 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFE2C5.7F5B7C80
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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HI  need some advice on speed i do lead work  but ive seen a gut that =
can build a 200 piece window in a day . and the work was great i just =
dont know how to get that fast.

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFE2C5.7F5B7C80
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>HI&nbsp; need some advice on speed i do =
lead=20
work&nbsp; but ive seen a gut that can build a 200 piece window in a day =
. and=20
the work was great i just dont know how to get that=20
fast.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFE2C5.7F5B7C80--

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 18:03:43 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Awbaxter
From: Awbaxter@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: glass after firing
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 20:40:47 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have a question.  After painting, firing and leading a glass panel 
together, the putty started to "stain" the glass while I was brushing it in 
... it took quite a bit of cleaning to get the dark swipe marks off the 
glass, especially on the back, which was the side down on the kiln tray.  
Does anyone know if repeated firings will change the hardness of the glass or 
cause the structure of the glass to change?  Is there any other reason the 
glass would absorb a "stain" from the putty?  

I use a mix of linseed oil, turp, whiting and lamp black to make my putty, 
and I've never had this happen with any leaded panel before....

Thanks so much for any input..
Ann
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 18:22:10 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: speed
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 20:44:28 +0000
Message-ID: <200007010041.UAA02661@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> HI  need some advice on speed i do lead work  but ive seen a gut
> that = can build a 200 piece window in a day . and the work was
> great i just = dont know how to get that fast.

Practice, practice, practice ... same way you get to Carnegie Hall. 
<smile> Really, it's true! 

A
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 18:33:49 2000
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X-Path: prodigy.net!magnetcats
From: "morgan oldacre" <magnetcats@prodigy.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: lead-free solder
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:19:47 -0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFE2D8.EB5CBD00
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Hi list,
I'm new and I've been lurking for a while.  Since the mail volume is so =
low, I thought I'd ask this question....does anyone have experience with =
lead-free solder?  I am pregnant and, of course, concerned about lead.  =
I know people who have used it primarily for jewelry, but will it work =
well in panels?   I've heard it is hard to work with and that it burns =
the soldering iron tip up.  True?  Do I even need to worry?
Thanks for your help,
Morgan ( in Tennessee )
....keeping high aspirations and low expectations

------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFE2D8.EB5CBD00
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi list,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>I'm new and =
I've been=20
lurking for a while.&nbsp; Since the mail volume is so low, I thought =
I'd ask=20
this question....does anyone have experience with lead-free =
solder?&nbsp; I am=20
pregnant and, of course, concerned about lead.&nbsp; I know people who =
have used=20
it primarily for jewelry, but will it work well in panels?&nbsp;&nbsp; =
I've=20
heard it is hard to work with and that it burns the soldering iron tip =
up.&nbsp;=20
True?&nbsp; Do I even need to worry?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks for your help,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Morgan ( in Tennessee )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>....keeping high aspirations and low =

expectations</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFE2D8.EB5CBD00--

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 19:24:09 2000
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From: Connie Bartel <BLUEHERON@etinternet.net>
To: lin@foxinternet.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: patina help emails
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:42:18 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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TO Layla and Bunji,

I had written for patina help on a project and thanked the group for their
responses.
But evidently lots of it was sent to me only instead of the group so I am
going to cut and
paste my saved responses in. To those of you who sent this mail to me and
have to
read it again just "delete". To the others who wanted to see the responses
I hope this
is useful.  Here goes.......

Connie,

I have a patina made by Canfield I think, that is 'black plating for zinc'
(nope, it's 
Novacan).. it is old. 

you can also buff the c**p out of it with a 3m pad (or old scrubby) with
the black patina 
on it and scrub buff it in... it takes some work, but it works.. sometimes
you can put a little 
(a little in a little jar) salt in it and it helps it take.

email me after to let me know if I helped ..

Candy

What I do is, use 0000 steel wool on it prior to applying patina.
After applying patina...buff it with the brush you use on your lead.
If you dont do lead construction, use a stiff bristled brush and buff it
up.

You might just try buffing it at this point.  If that doesnt work, 
try the steel wool, patina, buff.

good luck

try #ooo steelwool and start allover again.use black patina for zink.there 
are some patinas on the market thar are not worth a dame . try making you 
owen. it is a lot cheaper that way.

What I do is, use 0000 steel wool on it prior to applying patina.
After applying patina...buff it with the brush you use on your lead.
If you dont do lead construction, use a stiff bristled brush and buff it
up.

You might just try buffing it at this point.  If that doesnt work, 
try the steel wool, patina, buff.

good luck

Suzanne

Hi Connie!

I've used black enamel spray paint from Walmart to achieve a real black zinc
frame.
I masked off the glass with several layers of newspaper and placed the panel
on more newspaper and then sprayed one side. When it was dry I turned it
over did the other side and finally checked to see that the bottom of the
zinc was black, too.  It worked for me and I liked the real shiney black
finish.  Hope this helps you!

Nadine

Hi Connie,

Zinc can be a real bear to patina!

This is the way I do it.

1. clean the zinc real well with a degreaser and dry.

2. use xxxx steel wool on the zinc.

3. use kem-o-pro on the zinc (this keeps it from oxidizing in the 
   next couple of min. while you follow the next step)

4. use some wooden blocks or styrofoam to rais te entire piece up off 
   your work surface. this way you can do both sides at the same time
   without getting those nasty drip marks.

5. put the patina on liberally. I sometimes let it air dry.

6. Wax and there you go.


I have also just used plain old black spray paint.
One of my customers told me that rifle blueing works great. I haven't
tried it yet but as soon as I do I will tell everyone how it worked

Thanks
Skip

Did you try black patina for solder, not black patina for lead?
As a last resort....I would paint the zinc with metalic gunpowder
colored hobbiest paint.  Purchase a small amount at a hobby
shop.  It's the type of paint for doing detail work on metal &
platic models such as airplanes, locomotives, etc.

Christie A. Wood

Connie,
Classique makes a great patina that is just for zinc came.  It goes on
easily and does a great job.  The best part is that is doesn't smear and
come off when you clean your piece.
There are other brands out there that do a good job, but I like Classique
best.
Moya

Patina & Zinc are just a pain.

A couple of keys I've found:

Patina for Zinc doesn't work.  OK, at least not well.
Patina for lead works better.

The Zinc must be SCRUPULOUSLY clean.
Zinc off the shelf just won't do. No sir, not at all.
When you're cleaning your panel, scrub that Zinc.
A stainless steel 'Pot-Scrubby' works best and
doesn't contaminate the Zinc.

After scrubbing I rinse & dry.  I 'have' heard that
minerals in the water will cause color variations
in the patina on Zinc.

Using something along the lines of a cotton swap
(I use a tooth brush), dip it in the patina an 'blot'
it onto the Zinc.  Don't wipe and NEVER go back
over where you've been.  Let it dry.  (Yeah, I know,
but let it dry).  You'll end up with a black powdery
surface.  Lightly wipe that off.

You should end up with a fairly even and deep black
surface.  Wax it and be done with it.

Begin Diatribe
WHY!?
The main active ingredients in a patina is an acid
and a salt.  Black for Lead is Nitric acid and
Selenium Oxide.  The acid for different patinas are
of varying strength.  The acid in black for Zinc is
very mild compared to the acid for Lead.  The acid
'prepares' the surface of the metal, opening up the
crystalline structure.  The salt then gets in there
and reacts with the metal creating a thin layer of
corrosion which is not Zinc and not the salt.  It's black
and generally pleasing.  Like the nice green of a
natural patina on copper.  Different manufacturers
add different 'secret' ingredients that control how
the patina process takes place.  They're also under
the gun to produce a 'Consumer Friendly' product
that won't kill you in the process.  (Decreases repeat
business ya know.)

The strength of the acid determines the depth or
thickness of this new layer.  Stronger means deeper.
Zinc is a relatively active metal.  Eats away in an acid
pretty readily.  Lead is less active.  More durable.
That's why the acid for Zinc is mild.  Which is why
black patina for Zinc doesn't perform well.  It's also why
the patina for lead makes a nice deep black on Zinc.
(Initially deeper than that even on Lead.)  But it's also
why when you reapply the Lead patina on Zinc it gets
splotchy.  The stronger acid reacts with the Zinc at the
boundary layer between the Zinc and the patina.  This
causes the patina to release.  There goes the black.
It also leaves yet another layer which isn't Zinc or the
same salt.  It's not black.  This layer is more durable
than the old patina layer.  You can put as much patina
as you want and those splotches just won't take the
patina.  Your only hope there is to scrub it back down
again and try it over.  That physically removes that
last 'bad' layer and prepares the surface for the second
try.

END Diatribe.

Things to try:
Warm the Zinc black patina.  Will make it more active.
Add table salt to the black to lead.  Reputed to make
a harder 'crusty' layer on Zinc.  I've had no personal
experience.

That's all I know.  And probably a little bit more...

-G

Thanks again for all your help. Your a great group! Connie


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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 20:24:15 2000
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Moya-Don
From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Speed
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:09:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Cheryl,
Surely you do not mean that he cut, leaded and soldered a 200 piece window
in a day.  Someone must have been cutting while he was leading, or perhaps
he already had the window pieces cut.

I would love to be able to do a 200 piece window in a day.

The slow poke,
Moya

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 20:32:54 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Portland in November
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:02:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Ok Candy,
What is going on in Portland in November?  I guess I have not been doing my
reading.
Like you I am trying to get ready for the holiday season before it eats me
alive.  It will be here so soon.
Thanks,
Moya

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 20:40:28 2000
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From: "arizona" <arizona@visioni.com>
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Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 22:08:56 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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hi! I'm new to the list and thought i would say hello. I'm new at =
stained glass and wanted to ask if the copper foil method is suitable =
for larger pieces (i.e., a 4 foot by 2 foot panel). I think i read =
somewhere that the tiffany method was stronger than using lead came =
because it was soldered all along the edges instead of only at the =
joints... is this true?=20

Arizona

------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BFE2DF.C9020380
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3013.2600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hi! I'm new to the list and thought i =
would say=20
hello. I'm new at stained glass and wanted to ask if the copper foil =
method is=20
suitable for larger pieces (i.e., a 4 foot by 2 foot panel). I think i =
read=20
somewhere that the tiffany method was stronger than using lead came =
because it=20
was soldered all along the edges instead of only at the joints... is =
this true?=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Arizona</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 20:56:26 2000
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From: "Nadine BethSchneider" <nadinesfolly@POBox.com>
To: "arizona" <arizona@visioni.com>,
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Subject: RE: new to the list
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:52:06 -0400
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That's a matter of opinion and many have argued this point for a lonnnnnnng
time.
I work mostly in copperfoil and have done many large panels. . .I think
copperfoil is stronger.
But the lead people will tell you that once the lead is cemented it's
stronger.  I guess
You could liken this argument to which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I hope this helps, but I have a feeling. . .it didn't!

Nadine

Nadine Beth Schneider
Nadine's Folly, Ltd
www.nadinesfolly.com


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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 21:29:01 2000
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From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
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Subject: Re: Portland in November
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 00 22:08:24 
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Moya, and everybody who's asking or is interested..

goto: 

www.hotglasshorizons.com

Fusers and hot glass enthusiasts galore!!

Candy

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 21:33:06 2000
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Date: Fri, 30 Jun 00 22:04:44 
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IMHO, you'd be correct, if the panel wasn't cemented/puttied... But with the putty, the 
panel is stronger in one special way.. it can take the slightest blow with flexibility..(the 
putty helps the panel move without breaking.) Try that on a foiled panel..(had one 
break on me, when I was a beginner, cuz I decided to foil instead of lead, for the same 
reason)

Candy

ps. You'll find many opinions on this elist.. you'll find your own way, as we all have.. 
don't forget to experiment, and experience all!! Even the mistakes can teach (I prob 
should have said WILL teach!!)

On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 22:08:56 -0500, arizona wrote:

>hi! I'm new to the list and thought i would say hello. I'm new at =
>stained glass and wanted to ask if the copper foil method is suitable =
>for larger pieces (i.e., a 4 foot by 2 foot panel). I think i read =
>somewhere that the tiffany method was stronger than using lead came =
>because it was soldered all along the edges instead of only at the =
>joints... is this true?=20
>
>Arizona

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 22:00:39 2000
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From: "arizona" <arizona@visioni.com>
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Well, one member mentioned the ability of a panel done with lead came to =
flex a bit should it be bumped into (she stressed only a bit). That =
would be great for the piece i have planned since i have three dogs (one =
is very nearsighted and bumps into the couch a lot). So, i think i'll =
try lead on this one. I'm just nervous because i've only done one other =
piece with lead! This will be good experience (and practice).  *yikes*
i think i'll have to put in an area with little dog traffic, =
too.......now, where would that be?
arizona

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, one member mentioned the ability =
of a panel=20
done with lead came to flex a bit should it be bumped into (she stressed =
only a=20
bit). That would be great for the piece i have planned since i have =
three dogs=20
(one is very nearsighted and bumps into the couch a lot). So, i think =
i'll try=20
lead on this one. I'm just nervous because i've only done one other =
piece with=20
lead! This will be good experience (and practice).&nbsp; =
*yikes*</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i think i'll have to put in an area =
with little dog=20
traffic, too.......now, where would that be?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>arizona</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 22:02:55 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "cheryl zipf" <glassgirl@mindspring.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: speed
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 22:43:51 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

i guess it would all depend on the cuts, types of glass, etc. at some points
i've gotten done around 100-300 pieces a day. of course the pieces were
straight.... it all varies.


---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: cheryl zipf [mailto:glassgirl@mindspring.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 10:01 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: speed
>
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFE2C5.7F5B7C80
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>
> HI  need some advice on speed i do lead work  but ive seen a gut that =
> can build a 200 piece window in a day . and the work was great i just =
> dont know how to get that fast.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFE2C5.7F5B7C80
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>HI&nbsp; need some advice on speed i do =
> lead=20
> work&nbsp; but ive seen a gut that can build a 200 piece window in a day =
> . and=20
> the work was great i just dont know how to get that=20
> fast.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
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>
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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 22:15:18 2000
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Speed
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:46:49 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk

Blocks, grids, rectangles, triangles.....all the same size.

Easy enough to do.........

Set up a jig and cut........
Layout the long runs of came, cut the short ones and solder the joints.

just did 150 or so trapezoids for 2 lamps, foiled 2 full runs of 36 each and
have the first 2 sets of grids on the form......in about 5 hours.....second
set of 36 are a different color and will produce another lamp later.

All widths the same, so I stripped enough glass to be able to keep on
cutting the trapezoids.

In the "good old days" when I was ambitious, I would cut as many as 6 domed
lamps that had a lot of grids (trapezoids) and build all of them, with the
only the colors changing.....PRODUCTION!!!!!

I still cut 10 or so panel lamps once the jigs are set.....even if I do not
assemble them, the glass is ready to go.....time is in the set up, not the
cutting.


weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Fri Jun 30 23:01:12 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: speed
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 00:18:33 -0500
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I work fastest with upbeat music that makes me want to sing and dance.

I work slowest when I listen to an audio book while I work.  I have to 
tell myself to speed up.

Other than that...it's just practice...and the *need* for speed. 

Suzanne
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