From owner-glass Mon May  1 07:25:56 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Inquiry about Bohemian art glass
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 09:33:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi fellow bungians.  I received an inquiry from this person, trying
to find out something about some Bohemian art glass they purchased.
If anyone knows anything about this, would you please send her a reply?
Thanks.

Christie A. Wood-IGGA Exec.Director
Art Glass Ensembles
North Wales, PA USA

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:	"jrp25:First jrp25:Last", INTERNET:jrp25@earthlink.net
To:	[unknown], ensembles
	=

Date:	04/30/2000  8:31 AM

RE:	IGGA inquiry

I recently purchased six pieces of Bohemian art glass.  The bottom of thr=
ee
of the items are marked in script "ayy".  I am trying to identify the mak=
er
and find out something about the artist.  Can you help me?

Jeane Rae Perry






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From owner-glass Mon May  1 07:31:24 2000
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Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 07:58:32 EDT
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me too??????please
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From owner-glass Mon May  1 09:33:30 2000
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: glasss cutting table
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 09:22:47 -0700 
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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i made mine 3'x8', having home depot cut off a 1' section of a 4x8 sheet of
plywood. i then put hinges on one side of it, and fastened it to the wall.
when i want it out of there, i just fold it up on the wall, and when down,
rests on some sawhorses.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elena Rodrmguez [mailto:elere@clientes.euskaltel.es]
> Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 4:44 AM
> To: Bungi
> Subject: glasss cutting table
> 
> 
> Hello everyone in bungi
> I would like to know what size do you consider appropriate for a
> workshop table to cut glass, maybe enough to have a whole 
> sheet of glass
> or two at a time? I am trying to work out a plan for an ideal stained
> glass workshop, so I need to predict how much working space, 
> tools, etc
> I should get; any notions on how much /minimum working space, or best
> way of organizing each activity area (cutting, grinding, storage,
> soldering...) will be very much welcome; I basically make lamps, but
> panels are another possibility;  if there is anything about this in
> bungi archives, I would like to  have access to it, how do I do it?
> Thank you in advance
> Elena
> 
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From owner-glass Mon May  1 12:53:02 2000
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From: Pat Diacca Topp <diacca@tznet.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: glass clips?where?
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 14:28:58 -0500
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HI!

I dug around and found an old posting from 12,1997 about Quick and Easy
Installation Clips for Glass.  But the internet site is long gone.  These
were to be used for installation of stained glass in front of existing
glass in wooden casement windows etc..  Any idea where I can find some?
Thanks, Pat

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From owner-glass Mon May  1 14:02:53 2000
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From: "Kay Lawrence" <kaylawrence@ntlworld.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: : glass clips?where?
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:47:36 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I don't know where you are Pat but you can definitely get them in the UK
at: Tempsford Stained Glass.
E-mail tsg@dial.pipex.com
Web page http://tempsford.net

They call them Designer glass clips - cost £5 for 10.
Hope this helps - even if you are outside UK they would
make a very small package for an air-mail order.
Kay

----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Diacca Topp <diacca@tznet.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:28 PM
Subject: glass clips?where?

>Quick and Easy  Installation Clips for Glass. ...used for installation
of stained glass in front of existing  glass in wooden casement windows
etc..  Any idea where I can find
some?
> Thanks, Pat






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From owner-glass Mon May  1 16:33:11 2000
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0064_01BFB399.099CC360
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Delphi has two types of glass clips. One for windows (10 for $5.95)and =
one for cabinets (25 for $11.95). They are both clear polycarbon. Their =
web site is http://www.delphiglass.com  I hope this information helps.

A Touch of Glass
Kim Williams
williams@nconnect.com

------=_NextPart_000_0064_01BFB399.099CC360
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<HTML><HEAD>
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Delphi has two types of glass clips. One for windows (10 for =
$5.95)and one=20
for cabinets (25 for $11.95). They are both clear polycarbon. Their web =
site is=20
<A =
href=3D"http://www.delphiglass.com">http://www.delphiglass.com</A>&nbsp; =
I hope=20
this information helps.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>A Touch of Glass<BR>Kim Williams<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:williams@nconnect.com">williams@nconnect.com</A></DIV></BO=
DY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Mon May  1 18:03:59 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: glass clips?where?
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 20:06:16 EDT
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In a message dated 5/1/00 12:54:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, diacca@tznet.com 
writes:

> I dug around and found an old posting from 12,1997 about Quick and Easy
> Installation Clips for Glass.  But the internet site is long gone.  These
>  were to be used for installation of stained glass in front of existing
> glass in wooden casement windows etc..  Any idea where I can find some?

Designer Glass Clips come in at least three different sizes and should be 
available through your stained glass retail store. Mad Dog Stained Glass 
Supply wholesales them as well as others. I have used them many times with 
satisfaction.

Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Mon May  1 21:34:54 2000
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Please take me off the mailing list. Thanks.
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From owner-glass Tue May  2 05:52:23 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Depdee70
From: Depdee70@aol.com
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Subject: patterns
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 08:40:29 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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about your question..I make stained glass windows for my church and was asked 
for some of my work that I have desogned..hoping that some of the patterns 
would be of help for bungi friends..is that the inf. you were looking 
for??????Dee                                
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From owner-glass Tue May  2 08:01:14 2000
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Re: : glass clips?where?
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 15:33:12 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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At 21:47 01/05/00 +0100, Kay wrote:
>I don't know where you are Pat but you can definitely get them in the UK
>at: Tempsford Stained Glass.
>They call them Designer glass clips - cost =A35 for 10.

We also sell them - =A34.95 for 10
Most Stained Glass supply shops I imagine will have them - as ours come in
from the USA!!
Regards
Elizabeth in Bournemouth
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Tue May  2 09:33:34 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Wanted: Functional glass violin (!)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:11:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Gang - I received this email through the IGGA website.  Can anyone here h=
elp him?
Reply directly to MMCUSHM@prodigy.net.

Christie A. Wood-IGGA Exec.Director
Art Glass Ensembles
North Wales, PA USA
-------------Forwarded Message-----------------
From:	"Mike Cushman", INTERNET:MMCUSHM@prodigy.net
To:	[unknown], ensembles
Date:	05/01/2000 10:13 PM

RE:	IGGA inquiry
 =

I was wondering exactly how much you can do
with glass...I am looking for someone who could
make me a fully functional full sized glass violin.
If you have any artists that would be up to the task,
then please let me know. Thanks-- Robert.=
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From owner-glass Tue May  2 10:37:20 2000
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: : glass clips?where?
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 17:59:41 +0100
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Made a mess of that message - I keep forgetting that not all software
recognises the symbol for our currency - sorry!
It should have read:

We also sell them - UK pounds 4.95 for 10 plus 50p postage
Most Stained Glass supply shops I imagine will have them - as ours come in
from the USA!!
Regards
Elizabeth in Bournemouth
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Wed May  3 09:36:42 2000
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From: Depdee70@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: patterns 
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 12:14:51 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Debbie T...send me your address and I will send you some 
patterns.....Dee......Pat. you name it.I did it....Linda Jo..I was a Dep. 
Sheriff for 18 Years so the nastiness is ok with me..I can take it..thanks 
have a good day...Dee  Carolyn T. one more pattern on the way
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From owner-glass Wed May  3 10:07:21 2000
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: bevels around mirrors
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 12:45:58 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi, Has anyone used strip bevels around mirrors?  Can you tell me is it glued 
on with ultraviolet glue or what.  Thanks  
Bob
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From owner-glass Wed May  3 18:36:54 2000
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Subject: Re: bevels around mirrors
Date: Wed, 03 May 00 17:30:50 
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Bob, I treated it like a lead window construction, and did some overlay on it (glass 
flowers, also leaded)
Candy

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From owner-glass Wed May  3 19:36:44 2000
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Subject: display
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:57:48 EDT
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Looking for a display for my shop.to show my stained glass. Someone told me 
to use a 4x8 lucite or clear plastic, and build a wooden frame like an easel. 
 Then put florescent bulbs behind it, then set my stained glass in front of 
it.  Any ideas out their in bungi land.
Thanks Bob
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From owner-glass Wed May  3 21:45:54 2000
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From: Pat Diacca Topp <diacca@tznet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 19:51:02 -0500
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HI!

Some days my mind just isn't awake.  I forget how wide an audience this
group entails.  I will try to remember to put my location on each posting.
Pat DIACCA Topp, Northern Wisconsin, USA.  thanks for all the great
responses.

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From owner-glass Thu May  4 06:43:46 2000
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Subject: sorry ...this is about patterns
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:24:39 EDT
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hi Charlie ...sorry about your feelings but I thought Bungi's was to Help 
each other...sorry I will try and do better..Have a good day friend...Dee
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From owner-glass Thu May  4 11:19:43 2000
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X-Path: foxinternet.com!lin
From: "lin payton" <lin@foxinternet.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: organizing
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:11:22 -0700
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I enjoyed the responses to Elena's question re: table size but am interested
in what folks have to say about organizational tips.  I keep thinking there
must be lots of clever ideas out there with all you creative types!  Want to
share?!
layla


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From owner-glass Thu May  4 15:33:52 2000
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From: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
To: lin@foxinternet.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: organizing
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:29:39 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I think I have invested enough in Rubbermaid to be on their board! I
found some great heavy rubber/plastic boxes with lids that are 14" wide x
12" high x 10" deep. I can put full hobby sheets or smaller in them and i
have different boxes for different colours, textures, etc. They cost
about $2-3 apiece. Unfortunately, they're opaque gray, but that's where
good sorting comes in, I guess. They're just the right size so I can lift
them without throwing out my back! My husband built me a storing area for
the larger sheets right under one of my two workbenchs, using 1/2" dowels
for supports and   separators. Small clear plastic shoeboxes are great
for smaller leftovers, even chips that I keep for mosaics. Again, I sort
by colour. They're great on bookshelves, where you can see into the end.
I have to label the larger opaque ones. I even use the clear sweater
boxes for acrylic paints, etc. They are just the right heighth for those
acrylic squeeze bottles you get at the craft stores and for the square
sandwich size storage containers (for beads, nuggets, filigrees, chains,
etc.) stacked two high. Everything stacks nicely on shelves or each other
(and my 2 LARGE dogs can't knock everything over when they come charging
through). This is the only place in my home that's this well organized!
-Stephanie

On Thu, 4 May 2000 11:11:22 -0700 "lin payton" <lin@foxinternet.com>
writes:
> I enjoyed the responses to Elena's question re: table size but am 
> interested
> in what folks have to say about organizational tips.  I keep 
> thinking there
> must be lots of clever ideas out there with all you creative types!  
> Want to
> share?!
> layla
> 
> 
> ----
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> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Thu May  4 15:52:20 2000
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X-Path: holtenwood.bc.ca!csc
From: "Tim Atwood" <csc@holtenwood.bc.ca>
To: "SSUG List" <SSUG-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: ! Virus Alert !  NOT a hoax
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 15:09:44 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Computing Solutions Canada
Precedence: bulk

I apologise for sending this to everyone on my address list. I would not do
it if I did not feel it was absolutely critical.  Many of you may already
know about this so please excuse the additional email.

Extreme HIGH RISK VIRUS alert!  This is NOT a joke.  This is NOT a hoax.

If you receive an email:
Subject: "ILOVEYOU"
Message: "kindly check the attached LOVELETTER coming from me."
Attachment: "LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs"

DO NOT OPEN
DELETE IMMEDIATELY
DELETE FROM YOUR DELETED FILES FOLDER

This is for real.  I have just spent the last 8 hours working to stop this
virus from spreading through one of my corporate clients. Please feel free
to verify my information at the following virus alert site:
http://www.mcafeeb2b.com/asp_set/anti_virus/alerts/intro.asp

Warning: This virus is totally new and will probably not have been detected
by your anti-virus software.  Mcafee just release a new .dat file about 20
minutes ago. This file requires a new "engine" also. If you are on Mcafee's
update, please go to their web site and download the complete update as soon
as possible.

According to my current information this virus requires new functions of
Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.0 to function. If you do not have IE 5
installed on your computer you are "probably" OK. I will not guarantee this,
but it appears to be the case based on my experience with my clients.

If you never open the attachment, or if you received a message similar to
"Unable to Open Attachment", or got the "No Program Associated" window, then
your are "probably" also OK.

If instead you attempted to open the attachment and it did not give you an
error message, then your computer is probably infected. This is an extremely
dangerous virus. If you suspect you are infected:
1. DO NOT reboot your PC. The virus will do most of it's damage on system
start-up.
2. Close all Internet connections immediately.
3. Do not send or receive any more email in any way.
4. Do not use any form of Internet chat (IRC).
5. Check your IE properties (right click the IE icon then Properties). Is
the "Home Page" what you expect? If not, you are infected. This new "Home
Page" will load a program to transfer all of your cached information
including all cached passwords and potentially credit card numbers, etc. to
an email address in the Philippines.
6. If you are infected, discontinue use of your PC immediately. You will
need to re-load your PC from backup. Or re-create your operating system from
your Windows discs. There is nothing to "clean" this virus. This virus
replaces so many files on your computer with different versions of itself
that a "clean" without a full re-load of your computer is nearly impossible.
7. Search for a files named:
LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.HTM
or
WIN-BUGSFIX.EXE
If either file is found I would strongly suggest powering off your computer,
not restarting it under any circumstance, and taking it to an expert. These
are the files which transfer critical information such as all cached
passwords to the email address in the Philippines. If these files exist it
would be very dangerous to use your PC for any purpose.
Caution - these are not the only possible files. This virus appears to
rename itself to other names. All possible permutations may not have been
discovered in the hours since the release of this virus.

If you suspect you are infected, I strongly recommend contacting a computer
expert.  Sorry, I am not the expert to contact - I have my hands full right
now with current corporate clients.  It may be hours or days before I have
time to respond to any email sent to me.

Tim Atwood
Computing Solutions Canada - http://www.holtenwood.bc.ca/csc.htm
Holtenwood Studios - http://www.holtenwood.bc.ca/studios.htm

Adriana & Tim Atwood
Holtenwood Gallery - http://www.holtenwood.bc.ca/gallery.htm



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From owner-glass Fri May  5 02:25:44 2000
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X-Path: clientes.euskaltel.es!elere
From: "Elena Rodríguez" <elere@clientes.euskaltel.es>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glasss cutting table
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 11:18:19 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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Hello bungians
And thank you very much to all who replied my question about the size for a
cutting table; I didn't mention that the table would be used in a professional
studio,(not the way I do stained glass now) and would have to be large enough
to hold a whole sheet of glass, which seem to be 1,20 x 0,60 metres (4 x 2
feet) on average; up to now I receive glass already cut in halfs or quarters of
a sheet, so I have been able to manage with a smaller table. The pro-studio
thing is just a project at the moment, and that's what I want the info for.
Thanks once again
Best regards
Elena in Bilbao.



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From owner-glass Fri May  5 07:06:46 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Reverse Glass Painting:IGGA inquiry
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 08:54:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Folks - anyone know about this artist?  If so, please send your replies
to obrecht@sullivanil.com.  Thanks.

Christie A. Wood-IGGA Exec.Director
-------------Forwarded Message-----------------
From:	Gerald Obrecht, INTERNET:obrecht@sullivanil.com
To:	[unknown], ensembles
Date:	05/05/2000 12:22 AM
RE:	IGGA inquiry
 =

I have a reverse glass painting entitled The Windmill by Zaanvoort.  I =

am wondering if you are familiar with this.  The one I have is probably =

90 years old approx.  If not, could you direct  me to a source where I =

might  find out more about it?  Thank you.  Gerald Obrecht=
----
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From owner-glass Fri May  5 08:11:58 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: organizing
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 08:53:51 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "lin payton"
>I enjoyed the responses to Elena's question re: table size but am
interested
in what folks have to say about organizational tips.  I keep thinking the=
re
must be lots of clever ideas out there with all you creative types!  Want=

to
share?!<

Whilst I am not the world's best in organizing, I do have a few tips to
pass
along which have really helped me.

I keep one of those 120 Day Planner write-on/wipe-off calendars on the
filing cabinet.  As a job comes in, I place it on its delivery date.  Hel=
ps
me
keep track of who is owed what and when.

I do my own framing in wood using Northern Hardwoods framing material,
which needs to be cut to lengths.  I use a Sears Craftsman miterbox/saw,
which I store under my stand-up cutting desk.  I keep the blade safely aw=
ay
from things by suspending it from hooks installed under my cutting desk.
I also keep my Morton portable glass shop under the cutting desk, ready
to set up when I need it.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Fri May  5 09:04:19 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Bobfuses
From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: glasss cutting table
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:42:13 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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In a message dated 5/5/00 2:27:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
elere@clientes.euskaltel.es writes:

> u very much to all who replied my question about the size for a
>  cutting table; I didn't mention that the table would be used in a 
> professional
>  studio

Here in the US studio cutting and assembly tables are mostly 4' X 8' which is 
a function of the common size of a full sheet of plywood here. I have four 
such tables with one having a drop leaf for wider projects. Wide projects are 
a pain to reach to the center of the table. Also two of my tables can be dove 
tailed to make one large table that is 4' X 16'. All tables have hinged tops 
that brace up at eighty degrees to make turning projects easier. All tables 
have stowage under for came boxes. etc..

Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Fri May  5 09:05:23 2000
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X-Path: bigvalley.net!anyways
From: "Linda" <anyways@bigvalley.net>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Organization
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 08:40:21 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I was lucky enough to inherit a 10 ft long counter from my husband's
business when he upgraded his office. It was handmade by him. It is at
counter height, and is more than deep enough for the larger Morton board. I
was not too sure of the height at first, but now I am very grateful for this
fact. I have shelves for storage, and my work surface is high enough to not
be overly tempting to my three daughters ages 9, 8, and 7. On top in one
corner I have a wooden magazine rack that I salvaged from a previous remodel
of our old house. It has removable dividers. I turned in on its side and
have a perfect cabinet for hobby sized glass. I keep small pieces in clear
shoe boxes labeled by color. Some how I came into possession of an old soda
crate. the sides are notched out so it resembles a dish rack. I keep half
sheets in this rack on the shelf below my work surface. I use a drafting
chair at my counter or I can stand comfortably.
Linda W.

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From owner-glass Fri May  5 14:31:00 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Sugturluuq
From: Sugturluuq@aol.com
To: anyways@bigvalley.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Worden pattern
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 16:01:07 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello all,

I have a friend who is desperately looking for an out-of-print Worden Coca 
Cola lamp pattern.  If any of you have one for sale, or know where he can buy 
one, please contact him. E-mail address is: JLKeltner@techline.com

Thanks.
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From owner-glass Fri May  5 14:31:45 2000
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X-Path: cs.com!Greerstudios
From: Greerstudios@cs.com
To: Ensembles@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Reverse Glass Painting:IGGA inquiry
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 14:51:33 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 5/5/00 5:54:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
Ensembles@compuserve.com writes:

<< I have a reverse glass painting entitled The Windmill by Zaanvoort.  I 
 am wondering if you are familiar with this.  The one I have is probably 
 90 years old approx.  If not, could you direct  me to a source where I 
 might  find out more about it?  Thank you.  Gerald Obrecht
  >>

A good antique dealer with a specialty in turn-of-the-century European fine 
art would be your best bet..... reverse glass painting is not exactly related 
to stained glass, and it is doubtful that a glass artist will be able to make 
an assessment.  Reverse glass painting is quite common in Europe and 
basically is just a watercolor done on glass instead of on paper.... and then
backed with paper with the painting sandwiched to the inside.... thus, what 
you see is the reverse of the painting.  So contact someone who is 
well-versed in watercolor.... or possibly oil painting as that was another 
medium used though less frequently since the effect tends to be blotchy.

Hope that helps!

Dani Greer

Greer Gallery & Studios     
www.igga.org/greer/
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From owner-glass Fri May  5 15:31:59 2000
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: <Greerstudios@cs.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Reverse Glass Painting:IGGA inquiry
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 18:02:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

nice to see you back dani!


Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Associate Member AIA
Member International Guild of Glass Artists

----- Original Message -----
From: <Greerstudios@cs.com>
To: <Ensembles@compuserve.com>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: Reverse Glass Painting:IGGA inquiry


> In a message dated 5/5/00 5:54:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> Ensembles@compuserve.com writes:
>
> << I have a reverse glass painting entitled The Windmill by Zaanvoort.  I
>  am wondering if you are familiar with this.  The one I have is probably
>  90 years old approx.  If not, could you direct  me to a source where I
>  might  find out more about it?  Thank you.  Gerald Obrecht
>   >>
>
> A good antique dealer with a specialty in turn-of-the-century European
fine
> art would be your best bet..... reverse glass painting is not exactly
related
> to stained glass, and it is doubtful that a glass artist will be able to
make
> an assessment.  Reverse glass painting is quite common in Europe and
> basically is just a watercolor done on glass instead of on paper.... and
then
> backed with paper with the painting sandwiched to the inside.... thus,
what
> you see is the reverse of the painting.  So contact someone who is
> well-versed in watercolor.... or possibly oil painting as that was another
> medium used though less frequently since the effect tends to be blotchy.
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> Dani Greer
>
> Greer Gallery & Studios
> www.igga.org/greer/
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


----
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From owner-glass Fri May  5 15:40:13 2000
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Reverse Glass Painting:IGGA inquiry
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 18:04:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Good afternoon Christie,

You could probably have them contact Wheaton Village in Millville, New
Jersey.  There is a glass museum there and although I do think that its
focus is on American Glass I do believe they will be able to direct them to
the proper information.

my best,
pj

Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Associate Member AIA
Member International Guild of Glass Artists

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 8:54 AM
Subject: Reverse Glass Painting:IGGA inquiry


> Folks - anyone know about this artist?  If so, please send your replies
> to obrecht@sullivanil.com.  Thanks.
>
> Christie A. Wood-IGGA Exec.Director
> -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
> From: Gerald Obrecht, INTERNET:obrecht@sullivanil.com
> To: [unknown], ensembles
> Date: 05/05/2000 12:22 AM
> RE: IGGA inquiry
>  =
>
> I have a reverse glass painting entitled The Windmill by Zaanvoort.  I =
>
> am wondering if you are familiar with this.  The one I have is probably =
>
> 90 years old approx.  If not, could you direct  me to a source where I =
>
> might  find out more about it?  Thank you.  Gerald Obrecht=
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


----
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From owner-glass Fri May  5 17:36:55 2000
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Moya-Don
From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: IGGA Press Release
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 12:27:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

The following is a press release from The Bard Graduate Center for Studies
in The Decorative Arts.  It is provided as a service to the members of the
International Guild of Glass Artists (IGGA).  This posting does not indicate
endorsement by IGGA of these classes, lectures, tours or exhibitions.

Moya F. O'Neal, IGGA Communications Committee

The Bard Graduate Center for Studies in the Decorative Arts (18 West 86th
St., New York, New York 10024- (212) 501-3000, E-Mail:
programs@bgc.bard.edu, URL: http://www.bgc.bard.edu ) is offering a wide
range of non-credit Continuing Education Specialized Courses, seminars,
panel discussions and study days in May & June.  Those pertaining to glass
are:

"From Functional to Fabulous:  The Glamorous Story of Glass" a telephone
course May 4, 18, 25 and June 1, 1-2 pm.

"Explorations in Glass:  Contemporary Artists and Their Work" a lecture,
tour at UrbanGlass and tour of Brooklyn Museum of Art, May 11, 12:300-5:30
pm.

"Glass in Medieval Europe: Merging Traditions" a lecture on May 18,
6:00-7:15 pm.

"In a New Light:  The Corning Museum of Glass Collections" a review on May
11, 6:00-7:15 pm.

"Roman Glass:  Reflections on Cultural Change" Exhibition March 23-June 11.

"Classic Meets Contemporary Art in Glass" Lecture and Tour June 2,
9:45-11:45 am.


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From: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
To: <Bobfuses@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glasss cutting table
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 23:27:46 -0500
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Never thought about hinging my table tops... Think I'll just have to steal
that great idea! I'ts always a pain flipping larger panels...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks


> tailed to make one large table that is 4' X 16'. All tables have hinged
tops
> that brace up at eighty degrees to make turning projects easier. All
tables
> have stowage under for came boxes. etc..
>
> Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: glasss cutting table
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 02:26:35 EDT
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In a message dated 5/5/00 9:32:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
byronw@fastlane.net writes:

> Never thought about hinging my table tops... Think I'll just have to steal
> that great idea! It's always a pain flipping larger panels...
> 

Go ahead. My table tops are 3/4" A/C grade Douglas fir plywood. I have seen 
recommendations for 1/2" tops but feel the 3/4" ones are worth the extra few 
dollars. All tops are framed with finished size 3/4" X 4" red oak and have a 
raised 1/2" lip on the hinged side and one end.

There are three double electrical outlets on each long side with the first 
one from the electrical source having a ground fault interrupter. This 
provides protection to all six double electrical outlets.

I started out with using two door hinges that were screwed in place and went 
to three hinges that are bolted in place. The prop for the open top is simply 
a piece of wood at each end of the table that is pivoted from the table frame 
to wedge the top open at eighty degrees.

On two of the tables there are two heavy duty shelves that each can hold four 
50 pound cases of lead with four more on the floor.

One table is so constructed that the whole table can be tipped until the edge 
of the table is grounded on the floor and the top is then at an eighty degree 
angle. While it takes two people to tip this table the piece to be turned is 
now near the floor and may be rather easily turned around.

The above may seem complex at first reading but the convenience of these 
tables makes the initial effort well worth while. 

Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
Ps: I closed my studio a couple of weeks ago due to rent increases and the 
building being for sale by the owner. Am in the throws of constructing a 1000 
square foot studio in the basement of my new home. I feel good about the 
whole thing but much work remains to be done.
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From owner-glass Sat May  6 00:21:54 2000
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From: "lin payton" <lin@foxinternet.com>
To: "Linda" <anyways@bigvalley.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Organization
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 23:39:39 -0700
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thanks all for some great ideas!  keep em coming if you have em!  Even what
seems so simple and common sense to you might not have occurred to me or
others!
thanks again for your time and ideas!
layla


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Subject: IPO - ARE YOU INTERESTED?
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Thanks for posting.  I am reviewing your posting, and in return, please review below:  
****************************************************
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IPO (Initial Public offering) update...regarding stoxrus.com's future plans of going public. We have been notified from our IPO Securities Attorneys 
about our "Stock Options" plan. We are excited to inform you that the options plan for our new and existing members looks even better than we first 
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From owner-glass Sat May  6 10:00:40 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Bobfuses@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glasss cutting table
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 11:41:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I've always thought it would be so cool to have a frankenstien type
table that you could raise...so you could use the table top below.
I know at work...there are times that we are working on several very
large panels that are so hard to move...like when a class is coming in
that night...and we have to have the studio clear for them.

Suzanne


> > Never thought about hinging my table tops... Think I'll just have to steal
> > that great idea! It's always a pain flipping larger panels...
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From owner-glass Sat May  6 12:41:50 2000
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From: Shecharlie@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: foiling
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 15:33:35 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I'm on my third project and eagerly read all inquiries pertaining to your 
site.
My new question is - I forgot to  foil a little piece on my project and 
soldered all the pieces > What should I do about this little piece now that 
the project is finished.
Also having no mechanical abilities I'm afraid to put a frame around the 
project. I don't know the first thing about framing with either wood or zinc. 
Any ideas for this beginner would be most appreciated.
Thank you
Sheila
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From owner-glass Sat May  6 13:46:25 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: glasss cutting table
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 15:18:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

It sounds interesting, but I'm not certain I'm understanding the logistics.
Your panel/window/whatever is flat on the table, front side up, and you swing
the table top up at an angle so the near side is the stationary edge, and the
far side goes up.  (how many people to swing the top up?)  Then you gently
lift the bottom edge of the panel and, keeping the bottom edge down, slip the
panel down and bring the far edge to 90º.  Then you have to swing one end of
the panel in a wide arc of 180º so you wind up with the bopttom side of the
panel facing away from the table.  You then hitch the panel up and onto the
swing (lengthways), gently laying it back the 10º, and then swing the table
top down.  Seems like you'd have to have a lot of room? - Cec

Byron Wells wrote:

> Never thought about hinging my table tops... Think I'll just have to steal
> that great idea! I'ts always a pain flipping larger panels...
>
> Byron...
> Wells Glassworks
>
> > tailed to make one large table that is 4' X 16'. All tables have hinged
> tops
> > that brace up at eighty degrees to make turning projects easier. All
> tables
> > have stowage under for came boxes. etc..
> >
> > Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Sat May  6 14:00:29 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: foiling
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 16:26:51 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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In a message dated 5/6/00 12:42:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
Shecharlie@aol.com writes:

> My new question is - I forgot to  foil a little piece on my project and 
> soldered all the pieces > What should I do about this little piece now that 
> the project is finished.

You can cut some narrow pieces of foil and overlay them on the edge of the 
little piece and then solder to the adjoining pieces. Do a neat job and no 
one will be the wiser.


Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Sat May  6 14:17:16 2000
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Shecharlie@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: foiling
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 15:21:13 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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You didnt tell us enough about that little peice.  Where is it supposed
to go?  Doesnt sound like you missed it, when you were soldering.
As far as the best way to frame the project...tell us more about it.
What size, shape, etc...

Suzanne

Shecharlie@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I'm on my third project and eagerly read all inquiries pertaining to your
> site.
> My new question is - I forgot to  foil a little piece on my project and
> soldered all the pieces > What should I do about this little piece now that
> the project is finished.
> Also having no mechanical abilities I'm afraid to put a frame around the
> project. I don't know the first thing about framing with either wood or zinc.
> Any ideas for this beginner would be most appreciated.
> Thank you
> Sheila
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Sat May  6 20:25:10 2000
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From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: organizing
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 16:53:45 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000506165343.00d4ce9c@pop.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk

Luckily I have one whole studio room with cross ventilation and a separate
entrance and a large walk in closet, (which stores the glass)..
there's a pegboard wall with hooks and shelves.
Big trash can under the table and hooks on the side that hold the dustpan
and brush as well as the mallet for putting in nails. I have a foot rest so
I can change posture and not strainmy feet and legs from standing too lon.
There is a high stool on rollers for sitting and working, There is a bank
of track lights over head and I have 800 watts of light directly overhead
if I want it all. It's great for chasing the winter blues!  ;-) 
there is a magnet knife holder that I can use to store tools in current use
right at the table.  There is also 2 small tool storage racks that hold
items like screwdrivers, scissors, etc by dropping them into various
holes...like a large multi sized toothbrush holder. 
I have empty cardboard carpet rolls cut in half and suspended under my
table (4x8) for lead, also two boxes that lead was originally shipped in.
Directly under that is an old low cabinet that once housed a stereo set, I
think...now serves as a table top to store work board of projects in
various stages, and the shelves hold a multitude of odd shaped items and
bevel boxes. 
A roll of lead came for suncatchers is suspended from the ceiling from a
paper towel holder.  There is a papertowel holder for paper towels and a
bottle of spray cleaner hangs from it. Even the bandaid box is taped onto
the wall! 
I use an old record holder for small pieces of glass that I am currently
using or for sorting and storing pieces for a small project with the
pattern.  My light box ~18"x24" is made like a suitcase that can be picked
up by a handle and stored standing up out of the way.  
A catch all at shoulder level by the kiln holds safety glasses, gloves,
tongs (no excuse not to reach for those glasses) and all the kiln,
furniture, molds, wash, cones, etc, are on bookcase shelves right together.
Torch and related items still another shelf. I use a plastic dollar store
basket to keep the marver, mandrels, frit, murrini etc from wandering.
I use turntables on the bookcases to store the various chemicals and
bottles, so fewer things get knocked over when looking for anything in the
back corner and I don't forget what's back there. 
other shelves hold patterns, magazines and books...only about art...no
sneaking in anything unrelated.
Come to think of it, that room is packed FULL! 
I'm clumsy, disorganized and forgetful.  without baskets and catchalls in
abundance and specifically labeled, I'd have everything in a pile...well, I
often do, but this speeds clean up, since there really is a place for
everything.

Even the parrot has a wall perch so she can sit and keep me company!

Dee

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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: glasss cutting table
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 23:58:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk



Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote:

> It sounds interesting, but I'm not certain I'm understanding the logistics.
>

Duh!  Sorry.  My brain must have been flatlining.  One of those senior moments.
Cec


> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Sun May  7 04:56:39 2000
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From: lee tollett <leetollett@worldnet.att.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: organizing
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 06:38:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<3.0.32.20000506165343.00d4ce9c@pop.erols.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Love the way you visualized your studio....   I got a good laugh out of it.
You have some good ideas there that I think I might barrow ok?

Lee Tollett

Dee Thompson wrote:

> Luckily I have one whole studio room with cross ventilation and a separate
> entrance and a large walk in closet, (which stores the glass)..
> there's a pegboard wall with hooks and shelves.
> Big trash can under the table and hooks on the side that hold the dustpan
> and brush as well as the mallet for putting in nails. I have a foot rest so
> I can change posture and not strainmy feet and legs from standing too lon.
> There is a high stool on rollers for sitting and working, There is a bank
> of track lights over head and I have 800 watts of light directly overhead
> if I want it all. It's great for chasing the winter blues!  ;-)
> there is a magnet knife holder that I can use to store tools in current use
> right at the table.  There is also 2 small tool storage racks that hold
> items like screwdrivers, scissors, etc by dropping them into various
> holes...like a large multi sized toothbrush holder.
> I have empty cardboard carpet rolls cut in half and suspended under my
> table (4x8) for lead, also two boxes that lead was originally shipped in.
> Directly under that is an old low cabinet that once housed a stereo set, I
> think...now serves as a table top to store work board of projects in
> various stages, and the shelves hold a multitude of odd shaped items and
> bevel boxes.
> A roll of lead came for suncatchers is suspended from the ceiling from a
> paper towel holder.  There is a papertowel holder for paper towels and a
> bottle of spray cleaner hangs from it. Even the bandaid box is taped onto
> the wall!
> I use an old record holder for small pieces of glass that I am currently
> using or for sorting and storing pieces for a small project with the
> pattern.  My light box ~18"x24" is made like a suitcase that can be picked
> up by a handle and stored standing up out of the way.
> A catch all at shoulder level by the kiln holds safety glasses, gloves,
> tongs (no excuse not to reach for those glasses) and all the kiln,
> furniture, molds, wash, cones, etc, are on bookcase shelves right together.
> Torch and related items still another shelf. I use a plastic dollar store
> basket to keep the marver, mandrels, frit, murrini etc from wandering.
> I use turntables on the bookcases to store the various chemicals and
> bottles, so fewer things get knocked over when looking for anything in the
> back corner and I don't forget what's back there.
> other shelves hold patterns, magazines and books...only about art...no
> sneaking in anything unrelated.
> Come to think of it, that room is packed FULL!
> I'm clumsy, disorganized and forgetful.  without baskets and catchalls in
> abundance and specifically labeled, I'd have everything in a pile...well, I
> often do, but this speeds clean up, since there really is a place for
> everything.
>
> Even the parrot has a wall perch so she can sit and keep me company!
>
> Dee
>
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From owner-glass Mon May  8 10:02:25 2000
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From: "Meador, Laurie" <LMeador@keytronic.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Filigrees
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 07:57:09 -0700 
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this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Good Morning!

I am new to the Bungi group and fairly new to stained glass.  I've purchased
my first set of filigree's, and I know I've seen tips on how to tin them,
but for the life of me can't find those tips now.  Any advise on the best
way to tin wings?

Thanks for any advise!
Laurie

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<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I am new to the =
Bungi group and fairly new to stained glass.&nbsp; I've purchased my =
first set of filigree's, and I know I've seen tips on how to tin them, =
but for the life of me can't find those tips now.&nbsp; Any advise on =
the best way to tin wings?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thanks for any =
advise!</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Laurie</FONT>
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From owner-glass Mon May  8 11:00:55 2000
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From: glasscc <joyce@bright.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Filigrees
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 13:36:09 -0400
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>I am new to the Bungi group and fairly new to stained glass.  I've purchased
>my first set of filigree's, and I know I've seen tips on how to tin them,
>but for the life of me can't find those tips now.  Any advise on the best
>way to tin wings?
>
>Thanks for any advise!
>Laurie

I like to tack solder the outside edges to my finished piece and then tin
them.  Keeps them from curling when they heat up.  Just make sure you don't
get the brass too hot, to melt the tacked places all at once, or crack the
glass.  A light touch is best.  

Joyce
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From owner-glass Mon May  8 12:15:46 2000
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X-Path: go.com!officerjqg
From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Display Stand
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 06:22:33 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have done a couple of outdoor shows locally with some 
degree of success.  To display the glass I used a trellis 
painted white.  I am not satisfied with it.  I am looking 
for suggestions for some type of display that will let 
light threw so that the glass can be seen the way it was 
intended to.


                                        James



___________________________________________________
GO Network Mail                                    
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From owner-glass Mon May  8 13:00:38 2000
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X-Path: bellsouth.net!tidwell2
From: Rita Tidwell <tidwell2@bellsouth.net>
To: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Display Stand
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 15:45:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I had the same problem. Finally I knew what I wanted but couldn't
describe it to anyone.  I found a Photo frame in Big Lots that was like
a little room divider but only three sections. I took it to a man who
does woodworking, explained I wanted it in four sections and it's
perfect. 6' high 20" wide. Quarter inch hardware cloth in each of the 3
vertical sections, which lets the light through. He pulled the pins in
the center 2 sections, bent a finishing nail to substitute so I can use
two on either side of the booth or all 4 together. I put hook and eyes
to keep it in place for transport, things that hold pipes to walls for
metal stakes that can be driven into the ground and a door handle to
carry it. Probably weighs about 35 pounds. Hope this helps, Rita

James Garner wrote:

> I have done a couple of outdoor shows locally with some
> degree of success.  To display the glass I used a trellis
> painted white.  I am not satisfied with it.  I am looking
> for suggestions for some type of display that will let
> light threw so that the glass can be seen the way it was
> intended to.
>
>                                         James
>
> ___________________________________________________
> GO Network Mail
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From owner-glass Mon May  8 19:00:51 2000
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Moya-Don
From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Filigrees
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 18:11:59 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Laurie,
The best way I know of is to place the filigree face down on your board and
tin the back using plenty of flux.  Then turn the filigree over and place in
a tweezer (used only for stained glass) and tin the front letting the excess
solder run off.  Again use plenty of flux and you should need little or no
solder as it will run from back to front.  Be sure that all the little holes
in the filigree are opened.

I find that a good wash with soap and water and a neutralizer (baking soda
for instance) followed by a good waxing with Kem-o-Pro or what ever was you
prefer at this stage will keep the back portion of your filigree from
oxidizing.  At least it works for me.

Remember, when attaching the filigree use as little solder as you need for a
good solid joining so that you do not have trouble with holes in the
filigree filling with solder.

Enjoy, it just takes practice.
Moya in NC

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From owner-glass Tue May  9 11:48:07 2000
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: toyo head swivel...reminder?
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 13:05:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I still cant score right handed for a few more weeks...
but have found I can make simple scores left handed, guiding the head
with my right.  

I dont do so well with my head swiveling! ;o)  Can some one please
remind me how to fix a toyo head not to swivel?  Thanks.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue May  9 13:02:32 2000
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X-Path: artglassw.com!dandl
From: "Dave & Lynn Loda" <dandl@artglassw.com>
To: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: toyo head swivel...reminder?
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 12:33:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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Suzanne,

Loosen the screw, remove the head, rotate head 180 degrees put head back on
and tighten firmly.  This is for a pistol grip.  For a pencil type cutter,
all you have to do is loosen and turn the head so the screw doesn't tighten
onto the flat slot, but the rounded.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Dave & Lynn Loda
http://www.stained-glass-supplies.com
Quality Stained Glass Supplies at LOW prices

-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 11:05 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: toyo head swivel...reminder?


I still cant score right handed for a few more weeks...
but have found I can make simple scores left handed, guiding the head
with my right.

I dont do so well with my head swiveling! ;o)  Can some one please
remind me how to fix a toyo head not to swivel?  Thanks.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue May  9 13:12:42 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: toyo head swivel...reminder?
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:52:06 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
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In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
writes
>  
>
>I dont do so well with my head swiveling! ;o)  Can some one please
>remind me how to fix a toyo head not to swivel?  Thanks.
>
Loosen the phillips screw at the front top of the head.  It will slip
off the shaft when loose enough.  You will then see that there is a flat
spot on the shaft that the screw has fitted into.  Rotate the head 180
degrees, tighten the screw onto the rounded part of the shaft.  It will
be fixed.  I don't think you will like it much though.

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue May  9 16:00:54 2000
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X-Path: netzero.net!heesunstainedglassltd
From: "heesunstainedglassltd" <heesunstainedglassltd@netzero.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: subscribe
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:50:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd.
324 Main Street 
Reisterstown , MD 21136
410-833-3007 
info@heesun.com
sales@heesun.com
http://www.heesun.com
Custom Design Studio 
Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics

_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
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From owner-glass Tue May  9 18:15:36 2000
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Safety reminder
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 21:10:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

This afternoon, at our local retailers, John and I were looking at a 2 x
2 sheet of glass, deciding which corner we wanted.  The store owner had
handed it to John, he was holding it with both hands and away from his
body.  Suddenly the glass broke in two, half of it falling to the floor
and shattering.  John was not injured, because he was holding it away
from his body.  So a safety reminder....never, never hold a sheet of
glass over your head!  (And the part we most wanted was the part that
fell, too.)

Incredibly hot here in Connecticut for May.  Did an outdoor craft fair
last Sunday and went through a lot of ice water!

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Wed May 10 12:31:39 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: New IGGA member site
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 13:55:30 +0000
Message-ID: <200005101901.PAA05201@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk

Say, I noticed that nobody has so far mentioned Sue Prullage's new 
web site - http://www.gspbeadandglass.com - I finished up with it 
last week and would like to get some feedback on it. What do you 
think of it?

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed May 10 14:29:19 2000
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X-Path: mtcon.net!shigbee
From: "Shari" <shigbee@mtcon.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>,
Subject: Re: New IGGA member site
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:30:39 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200005101901.PAA05201@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Albert (and Sue of course)--great site! I really really like the "hover to
view it" buttons! Great way to load a lot of stuff fast and still be able to
see what you need to see. Boy, I can tell I have a new place to shop. I just
spent almost an hour going thru the entire site. Very nice job!
Shari


> Say, I noticed that nobody has so far mentioned Sue Prullage's new
> web site - http://www.gspbeadandglass.com - I finished up with it
> last week and would like to get some feedback on it. What do you
> think of it?
>
> Albert



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From owner-glass Thu May 11 11:33:37 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Very nice work on derix.com
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:44:50 +0000
Message-ID: <200005111741.NAA25987@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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Hi, everyone.

Just back from a terrific visit at Derix Studios' web site - 
http://www.derix.com/ - terrific gallery of work. Just what you'd 
expect from this excellent group of artists under the leadership of 
Wilhelm Derix. Take a look. Enjoy! I certainly did.

Albert
(who apologizes if this site's been mentioned already)
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From owner-glass Thu May 11 13:01:34 2000
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From: "Gay E Morrelli" <g.morrelli@worldnet.att.net>
To: "glasshelp" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: 60/40 versus....
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:33:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFBB34.6A03F140
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I use the 60/40 solder or the 50/50 and have good results... yesterday I =
needed some solder, so instead of going to the glass store, I swung by =
Home Depo (it was quicker) and bought some of their solder... it is =
"leadless"... have tried a couple of joints with it, and it seems to =
work 'ok', but seems to take more heat... is it better to use a 60/40 or =
a 50/50...? or is the leadless ok..???
thank you for any help or suggestions you have... Gay

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFBB34.6A03F140
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I use the 60/40 solder or the 50/50 =
and have=20
good results... yesterday I needed some solder, so instead of going to =
the glass=20
store, I swung by Home Depo (it was quicker) and bought some of their =
solder...=20
it is &quot;leadless&quot;... have tried a couple of joints with it, and =
it=20
seems to work 'ok', but seems to take more heat... is it better to use a =
60/40=20
or a 50/50...? or is the leadless ok..???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>thank you for any help or =
suggestions you=20
have... Gay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu May 11 16:00:49 2000
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "Gay E Morrelli" <g.morrelli@worldnet.att.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: 60/40 versus....
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:51:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

well, it's twice as expensive. but the effect is still the same. (providing
it was solid core). rosin get's over everything.


---Mike Savad


Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
4-6-2000 New Pages Added: 1 new tip page: Help buying stained glass, updated
info on the about me page, and 3 window set's for skycity. Including lot's
of new links, and more FREE PATTERN links.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gay E Morrelli [mailto:g.morrelli@worldnet.att.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 11:34 AM
> To: glasshelp
> Subject: 60/40 versus....
>
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFBB34.6A03F140
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> I use the 60/40 solder or the 50/50 and have good results... yesterday I =
> needed some solder, so instead of going to the glass store, I swung by =
> Home Depo (it was quicker) and bought some of their solder... it is =
> "leadless"... have tried a couple of joints with it, and it seems to =
> work 'ok', but seems to take more heat... is it better to use a 60/40 or =
> a 50/50...? or is the leadless ok..???
> thank you for any help or suggestions you have... Gay
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFBB34.6A03F140
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
> <HTML>
> <HEAD>
>
> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I use the 60/40 solder or the 50/50 =
> and have=20
> good results... yesterday I needed some solder, so instead of going to =
> the glass=20
> store, I swung by Home Depo (it was quicker) and bought some of their =
> solder...=20
> it is &quot;leadless&quot;... have tried a couple of joints with it, and =
> it=20
> seems to work 'ok', but seems to take more heat... is it better to use a =
> 60/40=20
> or a 50/50...? or is the leadless ok..???</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>thank you for any help or =
> suggestions you=20
> have... Gay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFBB34.6A03F140--
>
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From owner-glass Thu May 11 17:00:37 2000
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X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass
From: "KSee" <kseeglass@netzero.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: HELP! I keep receiving duplicates
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:57:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Of this email
This is who it is from : 
ANTIGEN_WHQS5220 [mailto:ANTIGEN_WHQS5220@owenscorning.com]


What is it all about? 
KSee
See Glass
 
National Capital Art Glass Guild
www.ncagg.org
 

_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
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From owner-glass Thu May 11 17:44:34 2000
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From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: HELP! I keep receiving duplicates
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:37:43 -0400
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I haven't recieved even one.


At 07:57 PM 5/11/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Of this email
>This is who it is from : 
>ANTIGEN_WHQS5220 [mailto:ANTIGEN_WHQS5220@owenscorning.com]
>
>
>What is it all about? 
>KSee
>See Glass
> 
>National Capital Art Glass Guild
>www.ncagg.org
> 
>
>_____________________________________________
>NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
>Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
>http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
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From owner-glass Thu May 11 19:16:52 2000
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X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue
From: sue prullage <stepsue@ezl.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: antigen message
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:03:05 -0600
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am also getting the same message over and over again.  I emailed them
to tell them not to send it to me anymore.  But within the last couple
hours I received 5 in a row.  Who is it coming from?
Sue

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From owner-glass Thu May 11 19:30:28 2000
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From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "sue prullage" <stepsue@ezl.com>,
Subject: Re: antigen message
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:25:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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You got me Sue.  I thought maybe bungi changed and was coming in under a
different name or something.  Intersting.  I don't know, it is odd isn't it.
Linda Jo

-----Original Message-----
From: sue prullage <stepsue@ezl.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:28 PM
Subject: antigen message


>I am also getting the same message over and over again.  I emailed them
>to tell them not to send it to me anymore.  But within the last couple
>hours I received 5 in a row.  Who is it coming from?
>Sue
>
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From owner-glass Thu May 11 20:30:36 2000
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From: "Candy" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>, "sue prullage" <stepsue@ezl.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: antigen message-ignore them
Date: Thu, 11 May 00 21:15:43 
Message-ID: <200005120318.VAA10502@mantis.privatei.com>
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It's been bouncing around and everyone (or nearly) is getting multiple messages.. just 
delete them or filter them out and they'll go away.. give it time.

Candy

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From owner-glass Thu May 11 22:27:38 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: 60/40 versus
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 23:36:40 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Gay,
Lead free is certainly safer since there is no lead content to speak of.
Look on the spool and see if there is any antimony.  If not, then you have
an even safer solder.  Yes, it does have a higher melting point and it is a
bit harder on your iron, but if safety is your thing, go for it.  The glass
doesn't care if you have no lead, and the copper doesn't care if you have no
lead.  Only your body cares.
Good luck,
Moya

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From owner-glass Thu May 11 22:30:26 2000
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From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: antigen
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 01:10:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

I do know I received an announcement of glass painting services aimed at
IGGA members by this Will Biggers, sent specifically to me (among
others), but maybe also on Bungi.  I'm printing the multiple message
first, then the Biggers one.  Maybe Dave can help us understand what's
going on?  Did owenscorning see it as part of the lovebug clones?

This is the multiple burps message from owenscorning which apparently
had a hard time digesting the Biggers message:
**********************************************************************************

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              Subject:
                        Antigen found =*.jpg file
                   To:
                        "'jbethrose@aol.com'" <jbethrose@aol.com>,
                        "'tyoung@cafes.net'" <tyoung@cafes.net>,
                        "'ronw@bainbridge.net'" <ronw@bainbridge.net>,
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<glassartstudionc@aol.con>,
                        "'mkw`4222@aol.com'" <mkw`4222@aol.com>,
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                        "'ensembles@compuserve.com'"
<ensembles@compuserve.com>,
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                        "'lgwbwp@hal-pc.org'" <lgwbwp@hal-pc.org>,
                        "'bethwill@channell.com'"
<bethwill@channell.com>,
                        "'claudia_whitten@ecite.com'"
<claudia_whitten@ecite.com>,
                        "'whiter@concentric.net'"
<whiter@concentric.net>,
                        "'whitelighthouse@msn.com'"
<whitelighthouse@msn.com>,
                        "'waterjet@uswest.net'" <waterjet@uswest.net>,
         Message-ID:

<95BD7B3AC8D8D211A7940008C79F0A2701A91A03@whqs5220.owenscorning.com>
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<95BD7B3AC8D8D211A7940008C79F0A2701A91A03@whqs5220.owenscorning.com>




Antigen for Exchange found Nature Bkgrd.jpg matching =*.jpg file filter.

The file is currently Deleted.  The message, "To IGGA Members:
Announcing New Web Site!", was
sent from Will Biggers  and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at Owens Corning/WorldHQ/WHQS5220.
*************************************************************

This is the Biggers message, but it may not have been the first message:

**************************************************************

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         Message-ID:
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                From:
                        "Will Biggers" <wbiggers@mindspring.com>
                   To:
                        "Jackie Zolchonock" <jbethrose@aol.com>,
                        "Teresa Young" <tyoung@cafes.net>, "Ron Wright"
<ronw@bainbridge.net>,
                        "Richard Wrenn" <glassartstudionc@aol.con>,
                        "Kathi Woodard" <mkw`4222@aol.com>,
                        "Kathy Wood" <byerwood@lmi.net>,
                        "Christie Wood" <ensembles@compuserve.com>,
                        "Cecily Wood" <cecnralph@home.com>,
                        "Bruce Wood" <woodbsphr@aol.com>,
                        "Linda Williams" <lgwbwp@hal-pc.org>,
                        "Beth Williams" <bethwill@channell.com>,
                        "Claudia Whitten" <claudia_whitten@ecite.com>,
                        "Robert White" <whiter@concentric.net>,
                        "David & Philann White"
<whitelighthouse@msn.com>,
                        "Andrew Westreich" <waterjet@uswest.net>,
              Subject:
                        To IGGA Members: Announcing New Web Site!
                 Date:
                        Fri, 5 May 2000 19:58:57 -0400
      MIME-Version:
                        1.0
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                        multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative";


boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFB6CC.59AF2F60"
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MAY 5th 2000


Dear IGGA Members:

Many of you have already received a notice about my new Web Site.  If
you have
already recieved notice, please disregard this email and excuse the
duplication.
Everyone else, please read on...

My name is Will Biggers, I am a glasspainter.  I invite you to take a
moment to view
my web site at:

    http://www.BiggersGlassPainting.com

I can help you with any of your glass painting needs.  Contact me
through my
web site, or at my email address below to discuss any glasspainting
projects you have
coming up.  Have a great weekend. Thanks.

Will Biggers
Biggers Glass Painting
402 Hudson Farm Road
Greer, SC 29650-3741
(864) 292-6216
email: wbiggers@mindspring.com
Web Site: http://www.BiggersGlassPainting.com
********************************************************************
Hope someone can a) explain what is happening, and b) turn owenscorning
off! - Cec
--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Thu May 11 22:57:56 2000
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X-Path: exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com!DF125031
From: "Becker, Donna" <DF125031@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Wall Sconce Hardware
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:53:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello!
I'm on to a new project - 6 wall sconces for the basement we are finishing.
I 
can handle the pattern/glass part of the project (I've never seen a pattern
I 
couldn't "fix" to suit my purposes, but I tried to order the hardware
required, 
but none of the Internet glass suppliers carry them.  Does anyone do wall 
sconces?  Where do you get the hardware?  What hardware do I need? How
do I attach the glass, if I have to buy this stuff at a "non-glass"
retailer?  Help!

  Donna Becker
 df125031@ncr.com

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From owner-glass Fri May 12 01:30:03 2000
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Wall Sconce Hardware
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:15:17 +0100
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At 11:53 11/05/00 -0400, Donna wrote:
>I tried to order the hardware required, 
>but none of the Internet glass suppliers carry them. 

Most retail stained glass shops will have them in stock or be able to get
them in for you.

Regards
Elizabeth in Bournemouth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Fri May 12 02:31:48 2000
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Moya-Don
From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Antigen
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 01:15:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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It looks like a filter on the Owens/Corning mainframe computer kicked out
something Will Biggers tried to send about IGGA.  Basically it says that a
jpg file he sent out fit a pattern that the filter was told to not let
through the system, so we keep getting the message from Corning.  It is
possible that they have been infected with a virus and that this virus
(program) is sending this message to everyone that Will sent his message to.
It doesn't seem to be causing any problems to my computer and virus scanning
and filtering on my machine has not picked anything up, so I think we are
all ok.
Moya

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From owner-glass Fri May 12 02:34:46 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Antigen
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 01:09:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dee,
I have more than enough, want some?  I bet I have had 10 of them, and 2 more
just popped up!
Moya

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From owner-glass Fri May 12 04:05:40 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 60/40 versus
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 06:48:25 +0000
Message-ID: <200005121044.GAA01633@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> Lead free is certainly safer since there is no lead content to speak
> of. Look on the spool and see if there is any antimony.  If not,
> then you have an even safer solder.  Yes, it does have a higher
> melting point and it is a bit harder on your iron, but if safety is
> your thing, go for it.  The glass doesn't care if you have no lead,
> and the copper doesn't care if you have no lead.  Only your body
> cares. 

But only if your body's ingesting it, right? Seems to me that solder 
with or without lead is a decision made on the eventual use and 
application of whatever's being soldered: a copper-foiled jewel box 
that's obviously going to be handled might suggest the use of 
lead-free solder so that no lead would come off on the hands of 
whoever handles it, but windows, transoms and doors aren't handled on 
a daily basis - and the trace elements like antimony actually 
strengthen and lengthen the life of the lead cames that are usually 
used in that situation. Using lead-based solder on lead cames, then, 
would not only be appropriate, it would do no harm, would it?

Not that I'm in favor of "do whatever you want; it's not important." 
Certainly thought should be given to health and safety, but if we 
could eliminate everything that's even remotely harmful from our 
lives, those lives would change fundamentally. It'd certainly be more 
difficult to clean house, yet many of the cleansers are not just 
harmful, they're deadly - just try mixing (I think it is) bleach and 
lye, both common in households but a producer of chlorine gas in 
mixture. Getting lead out of gasoline has been a good thing, but I 
still wouldn't down a large tumbler of gasoline even lead-free! 
<grin>

Albert

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From owner-glass Fri May 12 06:17:52 2000
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X-Path: fastlane.net!byronw
From: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
To: "Becker, Donna" <DF125031@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Wall Sconce Hardware
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:00:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Handly Industries has all sorts of lamp,sconce type harware but I think they
may be wholesale only tho.. Any retailer should be able to order what you
need.. I think Warner-Criv. also carries some...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

----- Original Message -----
From: Becker, Donna <DF125031@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:53 AM
Subject: Wall Sconce Hardware


> Hello!
> I'm on to a new project - 6 wall sconces for the basement we are
finishing.
> I
> can handle the pattern/glass part of the project (I've never seen a
pattern
> I
> couldn't "fix" to suit my purposes, but I tried to order the hardware
> required,
> but none of the Internet glass suppliers carry them.  Does anyone do wall
> sconces?  Where do you get the hardware?  What hardware do I need? How
> do I attach the glass, if I have to buy this stuff at a "non-glass"
> retailer?  Help!
>
>   Donna Becker
>  df125031@ncr.com
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>

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From owner-glass Fri May 12 06:35:31 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: 60/40 versus
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:58:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200005121044.GAA01633@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

chlorine bleach and ammonia based cleaners - deadly gas

Albert Lewis wrote:

> > Lead free is certainly safer since there is no lead content to speak
> > of. Look on the spool and see if there is any antimony.  If not,
> > then you have an even safer solder.  Yes, it does have a higher
> > melting point and it is a bit harder on your iron, but if safety is
> > your thing, go for it.  The glass doesn't care if you have no lead,
> > and the copper doesn't care if you have no lead.  Only your body
> > cares.
>
> But only if your body's ingesting it, right? Seems to me that solder
> with or without lead is a decision made on the eventual use and
> application of whatever's being soldered: a copper-foiled jewel box
> that's obviously going to be handled might suggest the use of
> lead-free solder so that no lead would come off on the hands of
> whoever handles it, but windows, transoms and doors aren't handled on
> a daily basis - and the trace elements like antimony actually
> strengthen and lengthen the life of the lead cames that are usually
> used in that situation. Using lead-based solder on lead cames, then,
> would not only be appropriate, it would do no harm, would it?
>
> Not that I'm in favor of "do whatever you want; it's not important."
> Certainly thought should be given to health and safety, but if we
> could eliminate everything that's even remotely harmful from our
> lives, those lives would change fundamentally. It'd certainly be more
> difficult to clean house, yet many of the cleansers are not just
> harmful, they're deadly - just try mixing (I think it is) bleach and
> lye, both common in households but a producer of chlorine gas in
> mixture. Getting lead out of gasoline has been a good thing, but I
> still wouldn't down a large tumbler of gasoline even lead-free!
> <grin>
>
> Albert
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri May 12 07:15:56 2000
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X-Path: go.com!officerjqg
From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: Re: 60/40 versus
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 06:52:58 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Amen!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: "Albert Lewis"<alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Date: Thu May 11 23:48:25 PDT 2000
Subject: Re: 60/40 versus

>
>> Lead free is certainly safer since there is no lead content to speak
>> of. Look on the spool and see if there is any antimony.  If not,
>> then you have an even safer solder.  Yes, it does have a higher
>> melting point and it is a bit harder on your iron, but if safety is
>> your thing, go for it.  The glass doesn't care if you have no lead,
>> and the copper doesn't care if you have no lead.  Only your body
>> cares. 
>
>But only if your body's ingesting it, right? Seems to me that solder 
>with or without lead is a decision made on the eventual use and 
>application of whatever's being soldered: a copper-foiled jewel box 
>that's obviously going to be handled might suggest the use of 
>lead-free solder so that no lead would come off on the hands of 
>whoever handles it, but windows, transoms and doors aren't handled on 
>a daily basis - and the trace elements like antimony actually 
>strengthen and lengthen the life of the lead cames that are usually 
>used in that situation. Using lead-based solder on lead cames, then, 
>would not only be appropriate, it would do no harm, would it?
>
>Not that I'm in favor of "do whatever you want; it's not important." 
>Certainly thought should be given to health and safety, but if we 
>could eliminate everything that's even remotely harmful from our 
>lives, those lives would change fundamentally. It'd certainly be more 
>difficult to clean house, yet many of the cleansers are not just 
>harmful, they're deadly - just try mixing (I think it is) bleach and 
>lye, both common in households but a producer of chlorine gas in 
>mixture. Getting lead out of gasoline has been a good thing, but I 
>still wouldn't down a large tumbler of gasoline even lead-free! 
><grin>
>
>Albert
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


___________________________________________________
GO Network Mail                                    
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com


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From owner-glass Fri May 12 07:57:36 2000
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X-Path: acesag.auburn.edu!fdillman
From: Frank Dillman <fdillman@acesag.auburn.edu>
To: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: HELP! I keep receiving duplicates
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:26:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<3.0.32.20000511203741.00d28730@pop.erols.com>>
Precedence: bulk

me either.  

Dee Thompson wrote:
> 
> I haven't recieved even one.
> 
> At 07:57 PM 5/11/00 -0400, you wrote:
> >Of this email
> >This is who it is from :
> >ANTIGEN_WHQS5220 [mailto:ANTIGEN_WHQS5220@owenscorning.com]
> >
> >
> >What is it all about?
> >KSee
> >See Glass
> >
> >National Capital Art Glass Guild
> >www.ncagg.org
> >
> >
> >_____________________________________________
> >NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
> >Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
> >http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri May 12 08:40:43 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Kauriee
From: Kauriee@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Antique glass
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:22:09 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello all,
An acquaintance of mine offered to sell to me some antique windows that came 
out of the old City hall.  The windows themselves are in terrible shape and 
quite ugly to be honest. But the glass is over 100 years old. They consist 
only of 4" x 4" squares of different colors.  All in all there is probably 15 
square feet of glass that can be salvaged out of the windows. The frames are 
all broken apart, and a lot of the leading is mangled.  If I bought them it 
would only be for the glass.  My question is how much do you think the glass 
would be worth.  She said "make an offer" or we can barter for them.
Thank you in advance!
Kauriee Wood
----
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From owner-glass Fri May 12 12:35:56 2000
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X-Path: holtenwood.bc.ca!tim
From: "Tim Atwood" <tim@holtenwood.bc.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Antigen
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:04:23 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Holtenwood Studios
Precedence: bulk

I also ran the original Will Biggers message through the absolute newest
Mcafee scan file (4.0.4077) which has the new love bug virus and just about
everything else. It found nothing. I also opened Will's message directly in
an HTML editor and viewed every line. There are absolutely no jpg files in
it and definitely none matching any known virus parameters. I even took the
liberty of downloading his site and scanning the entire site for viruses. I
found nothing.

So please do not blame Will for all the messages members of Bungi have been
receiving from the Owens/Corning mainframe (or where ever these messages are
truly coming from). Someone else out there is either infected with a virus
themselves or they have messed up on their virus checking procedures.

Essentially every Bungi member who's messages pass through whatever computer
has the problem generated one of these messages. One for each Bungi member
whose email is hosted by the problem server. I suspect these are the same
members who say they have never seen any messages. Again the problem is not
their fault but the fault of the people running the server hosting their
email.

Will Biggers email about his new site is perfectly safe. It contains no
viruses and neither does his site. I hope everyone will still go ahead and
look at Will's new site http://www.BiggersGlassPainting.com . He really does
do some good work.

----- Original Message -----
From: D. ONeal <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:15 PM
Subject: Antigen


> It looks like a filter on the Owens/Corning mainframe computer kicked out
> something Will Biggers tried to send about IGGA.  Basically it says that a
> jpg file he sent out fit a pattern that the filter was told to not let
> through the system, so we keep getting the message from Corning.  It is
> possible that they have been infected with a virus and that this virus
> (program) is sending this message to everyone that Will sent his message
to.
> It doesn't seem to be causing any problems to my computer and virus
scanning
> and filtering on my machine has not picked anything up, so I think we are
> all ok.
> Moya
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri May 12 13:07:04 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Kauriee@aol.com
Subject: Re: Antique glass
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:30:26 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

I hope you get a lot of replies from the USA.
        My offer for glass in came is almost zero.  What can you use the
glass for?  Do you have any idea how long it will take to separate and
clean the glass?
        It almost comes into the field of "how much will you offer me to
take it away?" questions.  
        Now, I have a lot of glass like the stuff you mention, but it
comes from windows I have taken apart for clients.  I.e., I get paid to
take the stuff apart and replace it with new glass.  
        If you would pay 5 dollars a foot for these colours and textures
of glass from a retailer just now, you should offer less, because it is
already cut, it is dirty, and you have to work to take it apart.  In
addition you have a big health and safety issue on your hands taking
apart oxidised lead and disposing of it.
        So maybe 15 dollars and collecting it would be enough.

Steve


In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Kauriee@aol.com writes
>Hello all,
>An acquaintance of mine offered to sell to me some antique windows that came 
>out of the old City hall.  The windows themselves are in terrible shape and 
>quite ugly to be honest. But the glass is over 100 years old. They consist 
>only of 4" x 4" squares of different colors.  All in all there is probably 15 
>square feet of glass that can be salvaged out of the windows. The frames are 
>all broken apart, and a lot of the leading is mangled.  If I bought them it 
>would only be for the glass.  My question is how much do you think the glass 
>would be worth.  She said "make an offer" or we can barter for them.
>Thank you in advance!
>Kauriee Wood
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri May 12 13:08:00 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Jacque1263
From: Jacque1263@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: unsubscribe
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:39:46 EDT
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please delete me from your list.
Thanks
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From owner-glass Fri May 12 15:15:54 2000
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Antique glass
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 18:01:17 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000512180111.00d291f8@pop.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk


hi Kaurilee,
what do you want it for?  Do you do lots of antique restoration that would
use this glass?  Is there nothing else like it available on the market?
  do you have lots of space you don't need, to store these til you can
figure out what to do with them and have the time to dismantle them and
haul the remains of to the dump?
It doesn't sound like they are worth anything in that condition. 
Take another look before you decide you have to have them.  Then if broken
old windows without artistic merit still facinate you, I have a few still
tucked away... cheap, crummy looking old windows with scratched glass,
dulled, dirty, crusted with cement.  I couldn't recognize them as worthless
years ago, so, they are still ugly, most need repair and were a very good
lesson!  They taught me 'Old' does not mean valuable, artistic, saleable or
even particularly collectible...even if it is made of stained glass! :-)


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From owner-glass Fri May 12 16:02:56 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Bobfuses
From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Antique glass
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 18:29:24 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 5/12/00 8:41:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Kauriee@aol.com 
writes:

> An acquaintance of mine offered to sell to me some antique windows that 
came 
>  out of the old City hall.  The windows themselves are in terrible shape 
and 
> quite ugly to be honest. But the glass is over 100 years old. They consist 
> only of 4" x 4" squares of different colors.  All in all there is probably 
> 15 
> square feet of glass that can be salvaged out of the windows. The frames 
are 
> 
> all broken apart, and a lot of the leading is mangled.  If I bought them it 
>  would only be for the glass.  My question is how much do you think the 
glass 
> 
>  would be worth.  She said "make an offer" or we can barter for them.

I don't think that old glass is worth the bother, unless............ You 
could get a job making several windows who's claim to fame was that they were 
made from glass from the old city hall. I would think the present city hall 
and the historical society would need one of these windows right away and 
someone would be happy to foot the bill.


Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Fri May 12 16:53:14 2000
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Antique glass
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:29:58 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

charge the person for hauling them away, then sell them on ebay. there's
always someone (frequently more than one) willing to pay for someone else's
junk.

make money on both ends.

regards,
charlie
phx, az
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From owner-glass Fri May 12 22:26:17 2000
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From: "Stained Glass Lamps" <stainedglasslamps@csinet.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:27:15 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BFBBFC.A4744820
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi, i also would like to know what is going on i have got about fourteen =
or more of them.  Do you know how i can stop receiving duplicates.  If =
you know let me know.  Thank you.    www.stainedglasslamps.com           =
Mary



------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BFBBFC.A4744820
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>Hi, i also would like to know what =
is going on i=20
have got about fourteen or more of them.&nbsp; Do you know how i can =
stop=20
receiving duplicates.&nbsp; If you know let me know.&nbsp; Thank=20
you.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.stainedglasslamps.com">www.stainedglasslamps.com</A>&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Mary</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sat May 13 07:32:25 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Appology from the IGGA Exec. Director
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 10:09:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

I wish to offer a public appology to all IGGA members for a recent action=

I took which has caused some hardships for some of our members.

A couple of weeks ago I was asked by a fellow IGGA member, for an
email listing of other IGGA members.  Yes, folks, I actually did extract
out member's email addresses from the IGGA database and emailed
it to this person.  This person then used the email list to send a messag=
e
(very harmless) announcing their web site.

This action on my part was wrong on two levels:
1) I did not remember to use a filter on the extract program which would
have not listed
email addresses for those IGGA members who asked that their information
remain confidential.
2) I gave out the email addresses in the first place.

Since then I have asked the IGGA member to stop using the IGGA email
list, and the member has agreed, and has deleted it from their computer.

Rest assured, fellow IGGA members, at no time has the IGGA membership
database or its contents been sold to any 3rd party.  Nor will it ever.  =
I
have
also instituted a policy that I will not give out any email lists again.

Please accept my appologies for the hardships it has caused some
members.  And please remove the listing from your address books, if
you decided to keep and use them.

If the IGGA membership feels my actions warrent my removal from the
Executive Directorship, you may express your feelings to the IGGA Chairma=
n,
Mr. Gerry Phibbs, at his email address of glassartist@compuserve.com.

Christie A. Wood - IGGA Executive Director
North Wales, PA USA
----
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From owner-glass Sat May 13 13:01:59 2000
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #238 built 2000-May-13)
X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Appology from the IGGA Exec. Director
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 15:46:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Everyone makes mistakes.  You've rectified it, you've apologized.  I hope no
action is taken by IGGA. - Cecily, an IGGA member

"Christie A. Wood" wrote:

> I wish to offer a public appology to all IGGA members for a recent action=
>
> I took which has caused some hardships for some of our members.
>
> A couple of weeks ago I was asked by a fellow IGGA member, for an
> email listing of other IGGA members.  Yes, folks, I actually did extract
> out member's email addresses from the IGGA database and emailed
> it to this person.  This person then used the email list to send a messag=
> e
> (very harmless) announcing their web site.
>
> This action on my part was wrong on two levels:
> 1) I did not remember to use a filter on the extract program which would
> have not listed
> email addresses for those IGGA members who asked that their information
> remain confidential.
> 2) I gave out the email addresses in the first place.
>
> Since then I have asked the IGGA member to stop using the IGGA email
> list, and the member has agreed, and has deleted it from their computer.
>
> Rest assured, fellow IGGA members, at no time has the IGGA membership
> database or its contents been sold to any 3rd party.  Nor will it ever.  =
> I
> have
> also instituted a policy that I will not give out any email lists again.
>
> Please accept my appologies for the hardships it has caused some
> members.  And please remove the listing from your address books, if
> you decided to keep and use them.
>
> If the IGGA membership feels my actions warrent my removal from the
> Executive Directorship, you may express your feelings to the IGGA Chairma=
> n,
> Mr. Gerry Phibbs, at his email address of glassartist@compuserve.com.
>
> Christie A. Wood - IGGA Executive Director
> North Wales, PA USA
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Sat May 13 19:55:15 2000
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Moya-Don
From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: 60/40`
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 17:00:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Albert,
Touché!  However, the lead free still contributes to a safer environment.
Moya

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From owner-glass Sun May 14 06:15:57 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Kauriee
From: Kauriee@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Antique Windows
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:07:31 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to all of you who replied to my question regarding the old glass from 
the windows of the City Hall.
I have decided to listen to everyone's sage advice and not even bother with 
them (unless she decides to give them to me...even then it might be too much 
trouble).
What a wonderful group!  
Thank you!


Kauriee Wood
----
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From owner-glass Sun May 14 10:01:59 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: manufacturer experiences
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:51:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

I've had occasion to send my used bandsaw to Diamond Tech for
refurbishing, my ring saw to Gemini partly because I botched the gormmet
replacement, and my grinder to Inland twice because it was - and still
is, but not as much - eccentric and chipped glass.

You can't get better or more fair service from Diamond Tech and Gemini!

I hope I never have to rely on Inland for service.

Cec
--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Sun May 14 11:01:53 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Bobfuses
From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:46:28 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 5/14/00 10:02:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
cecnralph@home.com writes:

> and my grinder to Inland twice because it was -- and still
>  is, but not as much - eccentric and chipped glass.

Most eccentric grinder bits are just that-the bit itself is eccentric and 
should be returned to the manufacturer for replacement. Furthermore, such 
bits, I have had a couple, do not last long even though they may wear 
centric. After a while they have a bare spot on one side and plenty of 
diamond on the other.


Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Sun May 14 13:13:39 2000
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Appology from the IGGA Exec. Director
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:06:33 +0100
Message-ID: <200005141819.e4EIJ3h05325@mercury.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk



Christie,

I will offer my own response just as much in public, as your 
apology was offered in public.

It takes courage, guts and a very special person. You have it and 
you ARE it!

No sweat! No problem!
Some of us here in UK still pay for the the time things take to 
download over the telephone line - so every second counts.
Now I know, now it's OK.
Great.
Let's move on.
Take care now. You are quite special to us all!

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK





I wish to offer a public appology to all IGGA members for a recent action=

I took which has caused some hardships for some of our members.

A couple of weeks ago I was asked by a fellow IGGA member, for an
email listing of other IGGA members. 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun May 14 13:17:43 2000
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X-Path: juno.com!cottgard
From: diane whitmire <cottgard@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Artist Search
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:25:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Trying to locate English glassblower who works in lead crystal combined
with sterling silver. Possibly woman artist. Thank you. cottgard@juno.com
----
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From owner-glass Sun May 14 17:48:13 2000
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X-Path: ETINTERNET.NET!BLUEHERON
From: Connie Bartel <BLUEHERON@ETINTERNET.NET>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: manufacturer experiences
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:24:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Cec,

We will see if my experience is the same. I sent my Ring Saw back to Gemini
after getting
it last fall and it continuing to break blades no matter what. I worked
closely with the
company and they sent free blades (3 total) and we reinstalled together
each time.
I and they gave up and it is now in their hands.

My Diamond Tech saw is going strong without one problem so so far have not had
to send it back or even readjust it. 

I recently switched from an Inland grinder after my 15 year old Glastar
gave up.
I hate it and will be switching brands again.

Is anybody familar with the Power Max II or the Diamond Max or have any other
favorite grinder they love for one reason or another?
Connie

----
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From owner-glass Sun May 14 20:05:35 2000
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X-Path: artglassw.com!dandl
From: "Dave & Lynn Loda" <dandl@artglassw.com>
To: "Connie Bartel" <BLUEHERON@ETINTERNET.NET>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: manufacturer experiences
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:41:40 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Why in the world would you switch from a Glastar grinder which gave you 15
years of service to a Diamond Tech product?  There really is only one choice
in grinders, Glastar.

Dave & Lynn Loda
http://www.stained-glass-supplies.com
Quality Stained Glass Supplies at LOW prices

-----Original Message-----
From: Connie Bartel [mailto:BLUEHERON@ETINTERNET.NET]
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 4:24 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: manufacturer experiences


Dear Cec,

We will see if my experience is the same. I sent my Ring Saw back to Gemini
after getting
it last fall and it continuing to break blades no matter what. I worked
closely with the
company and they sent free blades (3 total) and we reinstalled together
each time.
I and they gave up and it is now in their hands.

My Diamond Tech saw is going strong without one problem so so far have not
had
to send it back or even readjust it.

I recently switched from an Inland grinder after my 15 year old Glastar
gave up.
I hate it and will be switching brands again.

Is anybody familar with the Power Max II or the Diamond Max or have any
other
favorite grinder they love for one reason or another?
Connie

----
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----
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From owner-glass Sun May 14 21:17:14 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:33:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Not this one - the shaft is off.  It was the model that has the large round
disk as well as the normal small ones, and my friend and I swapped large
disks and my disk on her machine was fine and her disk on mine was not -
same with the heads.  As a matter of fact, her disks slipped on and off her
machine fine, as did my disk on her machine.  On mine you had to force both
disks to get them into place.  Nope, I got a lemon and they wouldn't make
good on their warantee, and this was returned to them long before the
warantee expired.  Twice.
 - Cec

Bobfuses@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/14/00 10:02:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> cecnralph@home.com writes:
>
> > and my grinder to Inland twice because it was -- and still
> >  is, but not as much - eccentric and chipped glass.
>
> Most eccentric grinder bits are just that-the bit itself is eccentric and
> should be returned to the manufacturer for replacement. Furthermore, such
> bits, I have had a couple, do not last long even though they may wear
> centric. After a while they have a bare spot on one side and plenty of
> diamond on the other.
>
> Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Sun May 14 21:38:28 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:40:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

I just got a new Diamond Max grinder and am very happy with it.  Sooo smooth.

I certainly hope my experience with the Ring Saw doesn't go as badly as yours.
I've had mine for a couple years now, and only now ran into difficulties.  I
think I contributed to it's problems, trying to put new grommets in, and I asked
them to upgrade it (2.2) while they had it, and we're pretty sure they shipped an
entirely new one. - Cec

Connie Bartel wrote:

> Dear Cec,
>
> We will see if my experience is the same. I sent my Ring Saw back to Gemini
> after getting
> it last fall and it continuing to break blades no matter what. I worked
> closely with the
> company and they sent free blades (3 total) and we reinstalled together
> each time.
> I and they gave up and it is now in their hands.
>
> My Diamond Tech saw is going strong without one problem so so far have not had
> to send it back or even readjust it.
>
> I recently switched from an Inland grinder after my 15 year old Glastar
> gave up.
> I hate it and will be switching brands again.
>
> Is anybody familar with the Power Max II or the Diamond Max or have any other
> favorite grinder they love for one reason or another?
> Connie
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Mon May 15 05:32:33 2000
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Subject: RE: manufacturer experiences
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:09:20 -0400
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At 06:41 PM 5/14/00 -0700, Dave & Lynn Loda wrote:
>Why in the world would you switch from a Glastar grinder which gave you 15
>years of service to a Diamond Tech product?  There really is only one choice
>in grinders, Glastar.
>
>Dave & Lynn Loda

I agree.  I've had a Glastar for over 15 years.  It still works fine.  As
the newer models came out I added them to my collection, including the
Inland and Diamond Max.  The Diamond Max chipped my glass terribly and the
motor finally gave out also.  I did like the disk grinder feature, but, if
I can't use it.....oh well....

Joyce
>
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From owner-glass Mon May 15 05:39:34 2000
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Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:27:37 EDT
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My experience with DTI was very good.

A year ago I had to send my Diamond Tech bandsaw (8 years old) back for a new motor and I was very pleased with their helpfulness over the phone and prompt thorough service.

Even with mailing from New Jersey to Florida and back, I was back in business in just over 2 weeks.

And my Inland grinder is 10 years old and still going strong. I had to replace the on/off switch about 3 years ago. I found a $4 switch at the hardware store and was back up and running one-two-three. Only problem I've ever had with it.

Cheryl Lowe
Glass Lites Studio
GlassLites@aol.com

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From owner-glass Mon May 15 07:03:35 2000
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From: Connie Bartel <BLUEHERON@ETINTERNET.NET>
To: Dave & Lynn Loda <dandl@artglassw.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: manufacturer experiences
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:00:45 -0400
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I switched because I had left working with stained glass for a bit and in
that time
new brands and technologies (ie saws) came into focus. I moved and the owner
of a stained glass shop locally sells Inlands and reports no problems. I
saw one
on a good sale and thought I would do OK.  The motor is still working but
it is a 
pain to clean and the diamond heads are not near the quality of the Glastar.

Connie

At 06:41 PM 05/14/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Why in the world would you switch from a Glastar grinder which gave you 15
>years of service to a Diamond Tech product?  There really is only one choice
>in grinders, Glastar.
>
>Dave & Lynn Loda
>http://www.stained-glass-supplies.com
>Quality Stained Glass Supplies at LOW prices
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Connie Bartel [mailto:BLUEHERON@ETINTERNET.NET]
>Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 4:24 PM
>To: glass@bungi.com
>Subject: manufacturer experiences
>
>
>Dear Cec,
>
>We will see if my experience is the same. I sent my Ring Saw back to Gemini
>after getting
>it last fall and it continuing to break blades no matter what. I worked
>closely with the
>company and they sent free blades (3 total) and we reinstalled together
>each time.
>I and they gave up and it is now in their hands.
>
>My Diamond Tech saw is going strong without one problem so so far have not
>had
>to send it back or even readjust it.
>
>I recently switched from an Inland grinder after my 15 year old Glastar
>gave up.
>I hate it and will be switching brands again.
>
>Is anybody familar with the Power Max II or the Diamond Max or have any
>other
>favorite grinder they love for one reason or another?
>Connie
>
>----
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>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Mon May 15 17:05:41 2000
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From: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Glass saw
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:36:45 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hello all...I'm considering buying a saw because of some intricate
patterns I'd like to try, but the delicate pieces seem almost impossible
to cut by hand. I hate to admit it, but I've wasted enough glass trying
to do these cuts that I could have bought a saw for the same money! This
is the first time I've really had problems. I always listen to all the
advice here on the List about doing it by hand first and foremost, but
I'm 'bout ready to give up. These are some beautiful faerie patterns that
I'm trying to do as gifts, but the fancy wings, faces and  hands have
really got me. I've been able to simplify the pattern (alot) and get by,
but I'd really like to try the beautiful ones in the book. Everyone seems
to like the Taurus based on prior Chat List offerings. Maybe someone has
an easier and/or better way for sticking it out with the handwork? Or do
I give in to technology? Any advice? 
Thanks!!!!!!
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From owner-glass Mon May 15 17:38:16 2000
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Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
Date: Mon, 15 May 00 18:04:35 
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I have to admit that Gemini was great! They know their saw, which you can't say of 
every manufacturer.

Candy

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From owner-glass Mon May 15 19:07:10 2000
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Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
Date: Mon, 15 May 00 18:06:37 
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Inland took an old grinder of mine that had an offcenter (cuz everybody-students and 
me- pushed too hard for too long) and just replaced the entire grinder.. I got 15 yrs out 
of that grinder.. course, I sent it back long ago.. maybe they've changed.

Candy

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From owner-glass Tue May 16 06:02:52 2000
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From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:54:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I'm also considering a glass saw. I had my eye on the Tauras, but
recently have seen an add for the Gemini Omni, which is a little cheaper,
esp. for it's blades. I think this is a ring saw too. Has anyone gotten
to use it and could tell me how it compares to the Taurus?

Peggy

On Fri, 12 May 2000 14:36:45 -0700 Stephanie N Larson
<pennyante@juno.com> writes:
> Hello all...I'm considering buying a saw because of some intricate
> patterns I'd like to try, but the delicate pieces seem almost 
> impossible
> to cut by hand. I hate to admit it, but I've wasted enough glass 
> trying
> to do these cuts that I could have bought a saw for the same money! 
. . . . Everyone 
> seems
> to like the Taurus based on prior Chat List offerings.  
> Thanks!!!!!!
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From owner-glass Tue May 16 06:22:46 2000
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From: Valerieksj@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:07:21 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I reccomend the Gryphon band saw. The ring saws don't last as long and the 
saw 'rings' are much more expensive.
 The Gryphon does everything I need it to do.

Just my opinion..

Doug StJohn
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From owner-glass Tue May 16 07:21:45 2000
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From: Skip Hodge <shodge@gdi.net>
To: Valerieksj@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:48:02 -0400
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Ok OK OK 

Hear are the facts as I see 'em.

Taurus II Ring saw replacement blade $105.84
Gryphon band saw replacement blade $126.00

I used to own a Gryphon Band saw until I tried the Taurus II. I
immedeately sold by band saw and bought a ring saw. The blade does not
tend to track off ( even with the guides (sold seperately)). And you can
cut in all directions without haveing to turn the glass. The blade I
have on my Taurus II is more that 2 years old and still cuts like new.
The only down side I have found to the Taurus II is that the blade path
is fairly wide, however they do sell a replacement smaller (.031/80
grit) Blade for the same price as the .039/80 grit blade. The choice is
yours.
My only rule is try 'em all and see what fits you best. Hands on is the
key.

Thanks
Skip
Southern Exposure Stained Glass Supply, Inc.
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From owner-glass Tue May 16 08:33:38 2000
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From: Connie Bartel <BLUEHERON@etinternet.net>
To: Skip Hodge <shodge@gdi.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:11:06 -0400
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Skip,

Any secrets to keeping that Taurus saw working? Mine is back at the company
after going
through 3 blades with about 5 hours use total. I followed all their
suggestions about making sure
you cut in all directions, don't push too hard, use cold clean water, etc.
I carefully made sure I
didn't let the motor get too warm, changed my grommets, got their help to
reinstall the blades,
etc, etc.  I listened to the sound to make sure it was right.  I could
resite the manual by heart.
And all was well and in the middle of short cuts SNAP! went the blade.  I
loved it when it
worked but I have lost many valuable hours uninstalling, reinstalling, long
distance phone
calls for assistance, grommets all for maybe 5 hours total use.  It seems
to me with these
saws people either get great ones they love and have no problem with or
duds and it is
about 50/50 odds.

I am hoping the company will honor my warranty with a new saw because I
think this one
had serious alignment problems somewhere.  I still am amazed at the lack of
quality
of many of the stained glass tools we use. 
Connie





At 09:48 AM 05/16/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Ok OK OK 
>
>Hear are the facts as I see 'em.
>
>Taurus II Ring saw replacement blade $105.84
>Gryphon band saw replacement blade $126.00
>
>I used to own a Gryphon Band saw until I tried the Taurus II. I
>immedeately sold by band saw and bought a ring saw. The blade does not
>tend to track off ( even with the guides (sold seperately)). And you can
>cut in all directions without haveing to turn the glass. The blade I
>have on my Taurus II is more that 2 years old and still cuts like new.
>The only down side I have found to the Taurus II is that the blade path
>is fairly wide, however they do sell a replacement smaller (.031/80
>grit) Blade for the same price as the .039/80 grit blade. The choice is
>yours.
>My only rule is try 'em all and see what fits you best. Hands on is the
>key.
>
>Thanks
>Skip
>Southern Exposure Stained Glass Supply, Inc.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>.
>

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From owner-glass Tue May 16 08:59:11 2000
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From: Valerieksj@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:33:00 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

WOW!!!
you pay 126 bucks for a gryphon saw blade??I bought mine for a hundred. 

You're right though - whichever saw floats yer boat. I prefer the gryphon 
myself, I know many others like the ring saw.

whatever you choose, have fun!!
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From owner-glass Tue May 16 10:05:41 2000
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From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Calling all glass restoration professionals!
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:56:55 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello all!

I've got someone who is researching a window that was in St. Peter's
Roman Catholic church located in Liberty NY. Now this window was
destroyed 25 years ago in a fire. They want to restore this window to
original and are looking for photographs and records of the original.
I'm assuming they would also be looking for a firm to fabricate this
window in the future.

What is the best way to search for this information? And if your
interested in this job let me know and I will refer you to the potential

client and let you do the searching :)

Thanks,

Pam



--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://stainedglassartists.com



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From owner-glass Tue May 16 11:07:05 2000
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From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:27:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi, I'm Peggy,

I just rejoined, and this is my first post after lurking for a week or
two. I'll do a quick intro & then respond to your request for
experiences. I have been doing stained glass for around 18+ yrs. but not
very steadily. The glass bug bit me hard and I was quite involved for a
couple of years, but then decided to go to graduate school, and didn't
have time. In fact I moved, from one house to another and then to a third
without unpacking my glass stuff. That was the way things were until this
past two years, and the bug hit me as strong as it hit the first time
around, maybe even harder ;-)  .  I'm now trying to make up for lost
time. I have only had one short class, maybe six weekly sessions, just
concentrating on flat panels, copper foil method. I have had not been too
successful with came when I tried it, on my own, melting it. Could use
some pointers for sure on this. 

My experiences are therefore pretty limited. But still you can have my
two cents worth, free of charge! I have only experienced the Wizling by
Inland. I do have a little problem with the 3/4" head chipping slightly,
but thought that every grinder did that.It doesn't chip as bad if you use
very light pressure. I got new bits just last week, the little 1/8, 1/4 
and another little one, the size escaping my memory,  (its in the set
using the adapter head). These don't seem to chip--maybe its because they
are new? But I do have a problem with these little bits coming unscrewed
from the adapter while grinding. They really are a pain. Has anyone else
got a tip about how to keep these from coming loose?   

I got this grinder maybe in 1983 or 1984 (I'm trying to recollect when I
got this, and the best I can come up with is that I started this shortly
after my son was born, and he is graduating this year from hight school
next week). I have not needed to service it. When it got used, it got
used a lot, plus being shipped from several homes, and being used by a
whole troop of girl scouts when I taught them. 

Peggy
                     
On Sun, 14 May 2000 19:24:08 -0400 Connie Bartel
<BLUEHERON@ETINTERNET.NET> writes:
> Dear Cec,
> 
> We will see if my experience is the same. I sent my Ring Saw back to 
> Gemini
> after getting
> it last fall and it continuing to break blades no matter what. I 
> worked
> closely with the
> company and they sent free blades (3 total) and we reinstalled 
> together
> each time.
> I and they gave up and it is now in their hands.
> 
> My Diamond Tech saw is going strong without one problem so so far 
> have not had
> to send it back or even readjust it. 
> 
> I recently switched from an Inland grinder after my 15 year old 
> Glastar
> gave up.
> I hate it and will be switching brands again.
> 
> Is anybody familar with the Power Max II or the Diamond Max or have 
> any other
> favorite grinder they love for one reason or another?
> Connie
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue May 16 13:38:24 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
Subject: Soldering came
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 20:52:25 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
writes
>
>Hi, I'm Peggy,
>
......cut.........
> I'm now trying to make up for lost
>time. I have only had one short class, maybe six weekly sessions, just
>concentrating on flat panels, copper foil method. I have had not been too
>successful with came when I tried it, on my own, melting it. Could use
>some pointers for sure on this. 

If you use a rheostat, turn it down a little, (or solder faster  :-)  )

If you use a setting or a bit for copper foil, it is often too hot for
lead came.  You can change the solder bit.  Soldering lead came joints
is not like running a bead of solder on a copper foil project.

Practice on some bits of scrap lead came by using a Stanley knife or
paint scraper to partially cut through the top half of the came,
brighten the came on either side of the cut with brass wire brush or the
edge of the paint scraper, apply flux (I find liquid flux is not much
use; I use tallow instead, you could use paste flux), apply solder to
iron just above the cut, so the solder touches both the came and the
iron.  When the solder flows away from the iron, you lift the iron
slowly and directly upwards from the joint.

Best wishes
Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Valerieksj@aol.com
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 21:15:42 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
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Good old technophobe here.

WOW! you pay 100 dollars for a blade to go into a machine that costs
hundreds of dollars to cut glass?!!!
Just think how much in practicing cutting in the old fashioned way that
would pay for!!!

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Valerieksj@aol.com writes
>WOW!!!
>you pay 126 bucks for a gryphon saw blade??I bought mine for a hundred. 
>
>You're right though - whichever saw floats yer boat. I prefer the gryphon 
>myself, I know many others like the ring saw.
>
>whatever you choose, have fun!!
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 21:02:51 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

OK, Stephanie.

I can see that I will never persuade you to avoid getting a saw to do
the impossible cuts.  
        Let me instead suggest another traditional way to avoid doing
impossible things with glass.  Paint it.  Paint it with vitreous paints,
with firing enamels, but not cold paints (they are too temporary what
ever the label says).  Far too many people avoid painting to get the
detail they want, instead trying to make impossible cuts in glass.  The
impossible cuts will not last whole,  they will crack and break along
the lines of weakness that the hand cut pieces did when you tried them.  
        If the detail cannot be achieved by cutting, then get it by
painting!  That's my cry of the week!

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
writes
>Hello all...I'm considering buying a saw because of some intricate
>patterns I'd like to try, but the delicate pieces seem almost impossible
>to cut by hand. I hate to admit it, but I've wasted enough glass trying
>to do these cuts that I could have bought a saw for the same money! This
>is the first time I've really had problems. I always listen to all the
>advice here on the List about doing it by hand first and foremost, but
>I'm 'bout ready to give up. These are some beautiful faerie patterns that
>I'm trying to do as gifts, but the fancy wings, faces and  hands have
>really got me. I've been able to simplify the pattern (alot) and get by,
>but I'd really like to try the beautiful ones in the book. Everyone seems
>to like the Taurus based on prior Chat List offerings. Maybe someone has
>an easier and/or better way for sticking it out with the handwork? Or do
>I give in to technology? Any advice? 
>Thanks!!!!!!
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:24:07 -0700 (PDT)
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Welcome Peggy K from Peggy J.  

To bungians:  If you were to suggest a "textbook" for lead came which one
would it be?  I have several students who want a book in addition to the
class.  I can certainly understand this because I am much the same way.

Thanks,
Peggy J

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From owner-glass Tue May 16 14:42:29 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:17:43 -0400
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Message text written by Peggy L Kinnetz
>But I do have a problem with these little bits coming unscrewed
from the adapter while grinding. They really are a pain. Has anyone else
got a tip about how to keep these from coming loose?  <

Make sure you are alligning the screw with the flat part of the
rod.  Then tighten the heck out of it.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:17:47 -0400
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Message text written by Peggy L Kinnetz
>I have had not been too
successful with came when I tried it, on my own, melting it. Could use
some pointers for sure on this. <

Melting it?  You mean soldering the joints I hope.  You should not
be trying to melt the lead came.  Cut the lead came to length, and
where there are joints, just lay a little amount of flux on the joint,
and solder the joint together, front and back.  That's it.  Then you
putty and white the panel for cementing.  It's actually easy.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From: "Linda" <anyways@bigvalley.net>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:19:51 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I just have a band saw, but even with that I can make cuts that are humanly
impossible with hand tools. I bought mine used so it was very cheap.
Linda
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: <Valerieksj@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Glass saw


> Good old technophobe here.
>
> WOW! you pay 100 dollars for a blade to go into a machine that costs
> hundreds of dollars to cut glass?!!!
> Just think how much in practicing cutting in the old fashioned way that
> would pay for!!!
>
> Steve
>
> In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Valerieksj@aol.com writes
> >WOW!!!
> >you pay 126 bucks for a gryphon saw blade??I bought mine for a hundred.
> >
> >You're right though - whichever saw floats yer boat. I prefer the gryphon
> >myself, I know many others like the ring saw.
> >
> >whatever you choose, have fun!!
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From: "synergy glass" <seaspray@island.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: manufacturer experiences
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:52:24 -0700
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-----Original Message-----
From: synergy glass <seaspray@island.net>
To: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences


>Hi Peggy
>
>Just a couple of comments that might help.  It sounds like your lead came
is
>melting when you're trying to solder them together.  If so, turn your
>soldering iron temperature down slightly and test it on scrap lead to find
>the range where it melts the solder but not the lead came.  Also try
>touching the soldering iron to the came and holding it for no more than a
>second or so, then lifting straight off.  You might be leaving the iron on
>the came too long.
>
>With grinder bits...if they're coming loose from the shaft, check and make
>sure that you are tightening the set screw onto the flat side of the shaft.
>It will bite better on the flat than on the rounded part of the shaft.
>
>I've experienced more chipping with grinder heads when they're brand new
and
>a couple of years ago I had problems with the diamond coating delaminating
>from one side of the head...that really mucked up the glass.  I simply
>returned it for a new head.
>
>Good luck, and welcome back to a very satisfying and addictive craft!
>
>Carol Swann
>Synergy Glass & Creative
>www.igga.org/synergy
>seaspray@island.net
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 11:19 AM
>Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
>
>
>>
>>Hi, I'm Peggy,
>>
>>I just rejoined, and this is my first post after lurking for a week or
>>two. I'll do a quick intro & then respond to your request for
>>experiences. I have been doing stained glass for around 18+ yrs. but not
>>very steadily. The glass bug bit me hard and I was quite involved for a
>>couple of years, but then decided to go to graduate school, and didn't
>>have time. In fact I moved, from one house to another and then to a third
>>without unpacking my glass stuff. That was the way things were until this
>>past two years, and the bug hit me as strong as it hit the first time
>>around, maybe even harder ;-)  .  I'm now trying to make up for lost
>>time. I have only had one short class, maybe six weekly sessions, just
>>concentrating on flat panels, copper foil method. I have had not been too
>>successful with came when I tried it, on my own, melting it. Could use
>>some pointers for sure on this.
>>
>>My experiences are therefore pretty limited. But still you can have my
>>two cents worth, free of charge! I have only experienced the Wizling by
>>Inland. I do have a little problem with the 3/4" head chipping slightly,
>>but thought that every grinder did that.It doesn't chip as bad if you use
>>very light pressure. I got new bits just last week, the little 1/8, 1/4
>>and another little one, the size escaping my memory,  (its in the set
>>using the adapter head). These don't seem to chip--maybe its because they
>>are new? But I do have a problem with these little bits coming unscrewed
>>from the adapter while grinding. They really are a pain. Has anyone else
>>got a tip about how to keep these from coming loose?
>>
>>I got this grinder maybe in 1983 or 1984 (I'm trying to recollect when I
>>got this, and the best I can come up with is that I started this shortly
>>after my son was born, and he is graduating this year from hight school
>>next week). I have not needed to service it. When it got used, it got
>>used a lot, plus being shipped from several homes, and being used by a
>>whole troop of girl scouts when I taught them.
>>
>>Peggy
>>
>

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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 18:42:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Message text written by Connie Bartel
>I am hoping the company will honor my warranty with a new saw because I
think this one
had serious alignment problems somewhere.  I still am amazed at the lack =
of
quality
of many of the stained glass tools we use.<

Wow.  Seems like you've gotten a "lemon"?  I have had my Taurus II
for a couple of years now, and have only used 2 blades so far and have
never even had to replace the gromets.  I also hope they send you a
new saw, 'cause it should not be causing you so much problems.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From: Valerieksj@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 19:49:41 EDT
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In a message dated 5/16/00 4:17:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk writes:

<< 
 Good old technophobe here.
 
 WOW! you pay 100 dollars for a blade to go into a machine that costs
 hundreds of dollars to cut glass?!!!
 Just think how much in practicing cutting in the old fashioned way that
 would pay for!!!
 
 Steve
  >>


Steve, you CAN'T be the same person who recommends using a rheostat? What 
happened to 'the old fashined way'? 

Enlighten us steve. Why one and not the other?
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From: Valerieksj@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 19:49:41 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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In a message dated 5/16/00 4:17:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk writes:

<< 
 Good old technophobe here.
 
 WOW! you pay 100 dollars for a blade to go into a machine that costs
 hundreds of dollars to cut glass?!!!
 Just think how much in practicing cutting in the old fashioned way that
 would pay for!!!
 
 Steve
  >>


Steve, you CAN'T be the same person who recommends using a rheostat? What 
happened to 'the old fashined way'? 

Enlighten us steve. Why one and not the other?
----
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From owner-glass Tue May 16 18:33:11 2000
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From: Valerieksj@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 19:47:20 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Steve, what's yer problem? It seems as though you are against anyone who cuts 
glass with a power saw. Are you 'one of those' people?
 Oh, for your knowledge.. I know how to cut glass 'the old fashioned way - I 
did for all the years I worked at the studio here in Syracuse, and I still 
do, however, as my mind broadens as I grow as a better artist, so do my 
ideas. There is nothing wrong with using power tools do do work you can't do 
with cutting 'the old fashioned' way.
Doug


In a message dated 5/16/00 4:41:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk writes:

<< 
 Good old technophobe here.
 
 WOW! you pay 100 dollars for a blade to go into a machine that costs
 hundreds of dollars to cut glass?!!!
 Just think how much in practicing cutting in the old fashioned way that
 would pay for!!!
 
 Steve
  >>
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From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: cementing came
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:42:52 -0700
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--=====================_1625576==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Then you 
putty and white the panel for cementing. It's actually easy.



"easy" ????  I've always had a bear of time cementing my came. The putty I
used
was the consistency of Play Dough and I'd force the putty into each and every
crack and cranny. It took forever and was hard on my wrist. Is there a
softer/thinner cement concoction that one might just brush or push in ??

Lorley/Phoenix

--=====================_1625576==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<font size=3>Then you <br>
putty and white the panel for cementing. It's actually easy.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=3>&quot;easy&quot; ????&nbsp; I've always had a bear of
time cementing my came. The putty I used was the consistency of Play
Dough and I'd force the putty into each and every crack and cranny. It
took forever and was hard on my wrist. Is there a softer/thinner cement
concoction that one might just brush or push in ??<br>
<br>
Lorley/Phoenix</font><br>
</html>

--=====================_1625576==_.ALT--

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From owner-glass Tue May 16 19:02:39 2000
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From: "Dave & Lynn Loda" <dandl@artglassw.com>
To: "Peggy L Kinnetz" <pkinnetz@juno.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 18:40:14 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Peggy,

The omni saw is a work in progress.  I'm sure the bugs will be worked out,
since Gryphon sells top quality saws.  The omni does one thing very well,
and that is to cut a circle INSIDE a piece of glass.  This saw is best
suited for the hot glass enthusiast.  If you are not doing hot glass, the
C40 Gryphon or Taurus are your best bets.

Dave & Lynn Loda
http://www.stained-glass-supplies.com
Quality Stained Glass Supplies at LOW net prices

-----Original Message-----
From: Peggy L Kinnetz [mailto:pkinnetz@juno.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 5:55 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass saw


I'm also considering a glass saw. I had my eye on the Tauras, but
recently have seen an add for the Gemini Omni, which is a little cheaper,
esp. for it's blades. I think this is a ring saw too. Has anyone gotten
to use it and could tell me how it compares to the Taurus?

Peggy

On Fri, 12 May 2000 14:36:45 -0700 Stephanie N Larson
<pennyante@juno.com> writes:
> Hello all...I'm considering buying a saw because of some intricate
> patterns I'd like to try, but the delicate pieces seem almost
> impossible
> to cut by hand. I hate to admit it, but I've wasted enough glass
> trying
> to do these cuts that I could have bought a saw for the same money!
. . . . Everyone
> seems
> to like the Taurus based on prior Chat List offerings.
> Thanks!!!!!!
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From owner-glass Tue May 16 19:27:16 2000
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X-Path: artglassw.com!dandl
From: "Dave & Lynn Loda" <dandl@artglassw.com>
To: <Valerieksj@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 18:45:20 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Ring saw replacements usually cost less and should last 2 to 3 times longer
than a band saw blade.  We sell the Taurus replacement for $86.50 and the
Gryphon band saw blade for $93.00.

Dave & Lynn Loda
http://www.stained-glass-supplies.com
Quality Stained Glass Supplies at LOW net prices

-----Original Message-----
From: Valerieksj@aol.com [mailto:Valerieksj@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 6:07 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass saw


I reccomend the Gryphon band saw. The ring saws don't last as long and the
saw 'rings' are much more expensive.
 The Gryphon does everything I need it to do.

Just my opinion..

Doug StJohn
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From owner-glass Tue May 16 21:02:49 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:32:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Or maybe you have one of the kind that allows a 1/4" head to screw into the
top of a 1/2 inch or larger head?  I've seen those and think they are
highly dangerous because you cannot possibly tighten them enough so they
don't eventually loosen and then the tendency would be for the top head to
fly off at high speed.  My instructor had one and I didn't want to be
anywhere near it.  And I really tried to screw it in hard enough so it
wouldn't do that.  Every time I walked by the dang thing I tightened it.
Matter of fact, I always wondered if it wouldn't have been safer if the
threads were reversed, instead of left-loose and right-tight they were
left-tight and right-loose, if that wouldn't have forced the top head to
tighten as it revolved, rather than loosening.  Ah well - physics was a
long time ago. (So, obviously, was English sentence structure!) - Cec

"Christie A. Wood" wrote:

> Message text written by Peggy L Kinnetz
> >But I do have a problem with these little bits coming unscrewed
> from the adapter while grinding. They really are a pain. Has anyone else
> got a tip about how to keep these from coming loose?  <
>
> Make sure you are alligning the screw with the flat part of the
> rod.  Then tighten the heck out of it.
>
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Wed May 17 01:32:53 2000
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X-Path: fastlane.net!byronw
From: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
To: "Steve Richard" <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 21:17:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Along those same lines I've used thin wire to vastly increase detail in bird
wings,fish scales etc.
Byron..
Wells Glassworks

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Glass saw


> OK, Stephanie.
>
> I can see that I will never persuade you to avoid getting a saw to do
> the impossible cuts.
>         Let me instead suggest another traditional way to avoid doing
> impossible things with glass.  Paint it.  Paint it with vitreous paints,
> with firing enamels, but not cold paints (they are too temporary what
> ever the label says).  Far too many people avoid painting to get the
> detail they want, instead trying to make impossible cuts in glass.  The
> impossible cuts will not last whole,  they will crack and break along
> the lines of weakness that the hand cut pieces did when you tried them.
>         If the detail cannot be achieved by cutting, then get it by
> painting!  That's my cry of the week!
>
> Steve
>
> In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
> writes
> >Hello all...I'm considering buying a saw because of some intricate
> >patterns I'd like to try, but the delicate pieces seem almost impossible
> >to cut by hand. I hate to admit it, but I've wasted enough glass trying
> >to do these cuts that I could have bought a saw for the same money! This
> >is the first time I've really had problems. I always listen to all the
> >advice here on the List about doing it by hand first and foremost, but
> >I'm 'bout ready to give up. These are some beautiful faerie patterns that
> >I'm trying to do as gifts, but the fancy wings, faces and  hands have
> >really got me. I've been able to simplify the pattern (alot) and get by,
> >but I'd really like to try the beautiful ones in the book. Everyone seems
> >to like the Taurus based on prior Chat List offerings. Maybe someone has
> >an easier and/or better way for sticking it out with the handwork? Or do
> >I give in to technology? Any advice?
> >Thanks!!!!!!
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Wed May 17 05:24:53 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Tiffany dome
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:10:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

The Washington Post has an interesting article about moving a Tiffany
dome from one Maryland State building to another.  Check it out:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16035-2000May16.html

-Cec
--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Wed May 17 05:32:30 2000
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From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Tiffany dome 2
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:22:38 -0400
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Also check it out in the Baltimore Sun:

http://www.sunspot.net/content/archive/story?section=archive&pagename=story&storyid=1150340210559

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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Also check it out in the Baltimore Sun:
<p><a href="http://www.sunspot.net/content/archive/story?section=archive&pagename=story&storyid=1150340210559">http://www.sunspot.net/content/archive/story?section=archive&amp;pagename=story&amp;storyid=1150340210559</a><a href="http://www.sunspot.net/content/archive/story?section=archive&pagename=story&storyid=1150340210559"></a>
<p>--
<br>*********************************************************************
<br>*&nbsp; Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood&nbsp; and/or&nbsp; Ralph Bernard
Wood
<br>*&nbsp; Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
<br>*********************************************************************
<br>&nbsp;</html>

--------------5895F4DE57AD72C9B3271C08--

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From owner-glass Wed May 17 12:08:23 2000
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X-Path: juno.com!pennyante
From: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:55:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for all the input! LOTS of differing opinions on this one...I've
been price shopping...You guys should try Warner-Crivellaro-$65 for the
Taurus 2.2 blade. Just an idea!! 
-Stephanie

On Tue, 16 May 2000 21:15:42 +0100 Steve Richard
<s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Good old technophobe here.
> 
> WOW! you pay 100 dollars for a blade to go into a machine that costs
> hundreds of dollars to cut glass?!!!
> Just think how much in practicing cutting in the old fashioned way 
> that
> would pay for!!!
> 
> Steve
> 
> In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Valerieksj@aol.com writes
> >WOW!!!
> >you pay 126 bucks for a gryphon saw blade??I bought mine for a 
> hundred. 
> >
> >You're right though - whichever saw floats yer boat. I prefer the 
> gryphon 
> >myself, I know many others like the ring saw.
> >
> >whatever you choose, have fun!!
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> -- 
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Wed May 17 14:47:56 2000
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From: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:06:05 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone! I just want to thank all of you for your great opinions. I'm
definitely going to think about trying out the different saws before
buying one at full price! The Taurus and the Gryphon seem to win out by
vote count - I'll be sure to try those first. Oh, and Warner-Crivellaro
seems to have some good pricing on Taurus 2.2 blades for those who were
commenting on price-$64.00 ea. I guess that's good. Of course, I pay $3
for wood blades, so anything seems high to me!

Painting, grinding and the wire trick for details are both great ideas,
too, that I can definitely use right away in some projects I'm trying. I
value all of your experienced input because I learn something new each
time. I've tried alot of stuff I'd have never dreamed of trying if it
weren't for the chat list. I've even found better ways to do things I was
already doing.

Just a brief titter...everyone has their own differing opinions based on
personal experiences, which is what makes this chat group so great. And
thanks again for all the help!
Stephanie
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From owner-glass Wed May 17 15:19:43 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: cementing came
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:12:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Lorley Oneyear
>"easy" ????  I've always had a bear of time cementing my came. The putty=
 I
used
was the consistency of Play Dough and I'd force the putty into each and
every
crack and cranny. It took forever and was hard on my wrist. Is there a
softer/thinner cement concoction that one might just brush or push in ??<=


Ah yes.  Putty does harden up over time.  You can very, very easily make =
it
to whatever consistency you desire (I like mine much softer than Play
Dough)
by adding extra 'wet' ingredients to the putty, and then mixing it.  The
'wet'
ingredients are turpentine and boiled linseed oil.  The ratio is 1 1/2
parts
turpentine to 1 part boiled linseed oil.  In fact, you need only one more=

ingredient to make your own putty....whiting.  The recipe I use is:
1 1/2 parts turpentine
1 part boiled linseed oil
7 parts whiting (or enough whiting until it's the thickness I like)

I purchase my turpentine and boiled linseed oil from the local hardware
store, and the whiting from my local stained glass supplier.

You can't brush putty into the came.  You've got to push it in.  I
purchased
some high-quality gardening gloves just for puttying, but sometimes I jus=
t
use my fingers.  I've seen others use a plastic fid to push the putty und=
er
the came.

Just seems to me that you need to thin out your putty.  Tip: Measure out
the 'wet' ingredients and store them together in a bottle.  Then just add=

the 'wet' (after shaking them) to some whiting to make as little or as mu=
ch
fresh putty as you need.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Wed May 17 18:00:52 2000
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X-Path: thezone.net!robertcrane
From: "Robert Crane" <robertcrane@thezone.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Identification of glass
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:03:48 -0230
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFC04B.C722F3A0
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The glass in quettion was probably made in the mid 1800s. If anyone has =
any idea how I could identify this, I would appreciate the information. =
Thanks in anticipation.

------=_NextPart_001_001D_01BFC04B.C722F3A0
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The glass in quettion was probably made =
in the mid=20
1800s. If anyone has any idea how I could identify this, I would =
appreciate the=20
information. Thanks in anticipation.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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h1Zc/f8Azx1HsTT5Ek0tt/y/JDVV811y3e91obfw70h9J0yaB7iO4xcGQPGSVAaKLhGI5wQaKveC
rGSysZY5XRyZ2kDITghkT+E/d+nSipiklpp/w/6jm7ybbTvrdddtj//Z

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From owner-glass Wed May 17 23:16:25 2000
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Tiffany Dome again
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 01:36:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk


--------------716EE935A5207D332DCA1E40
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Don't know why the dome2 didn't work, but the same subject of moving a
Tiffany dome from onw Maryland state building to another was also covere
in the Baltimore Sun:

http://www.sunspot.net/content/archive/story?section=archive&pagename=story&storyid=1150340210559

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


--------------716EE935A5207D332DCA1E40
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Don't know why the dome2 didn't work, but the same subject of moving a
Tiffany dome from onw Maryland state building to another was also covere
in the Baltimore Sun:
<p><a href="http://www.sunspot.net/content/archive/story?section=archive&pagename=story&storyid=1150340210559">http://www.sunspot.net/content/archive/story?section=archive&amp;pagename=story&amp;storyid=1150340210559</a><a href="http://www.sunspot.net/content/archive/story?section=archive&pagename=story&storyid=1150340210559"></a>
<p>--
<br>*********************************************************************
<br>*&nbsp; Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood&nbsp; and/or&nbsp; Ralph Bernard
Wood
<br>*&nbsp; Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
<br>*********************************************************************
<br>&nbsp;</html>

--------------716EE935A5207D332DCA1E40--

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From owner-glass Thu May 18 06:30:47 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Lead came "textbook"
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:57:46 -0400
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Message text written by "Peggy W. Johnsen"
>To bungians:  If you were to suggest a "textbook" for lead came which on=
e
would it be?  I have several students who want a book in addition to the
class.  I can certainly understand this because I am much the same way.<

It's not a textbook, but a pattern book.  However, it has all the practic=
al
info in it to remind folk the steps in doing a successful lead came
project.
It's "Learning Leaded Glass" by Valerie Hixson

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: FS: doors for workbenches (phoenix, az)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:02:09 -0700
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my office has 3 solid oak doors with the knob holes drilled for sale. 

they're standard 36"x80" doors. extremely heavy. $30 each. must be picked
up.

regards,
charlie
phx, az
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Subject: church design
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:38:50 EDT
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Hi, 
I  need some idea of a design for a church.
There are 20 groups of windows, each group has a set of five panels 19" x 31" 
and  are on top of each other and are divided by 4" stops. these windows are 
also  5 "  apart from each group.
The Church is Lutheran and Traditional in design. Because there is so many 
windows, cost may be a factor.  In the very front of the alter  I already did 
angels and a dove with sun rays flowing from the dove into the angels.
Can you help mwe out with an idea?  They do not want painted glass or any 
saints.
I would like to come up with a simplistic design, and a design that would 
flow from panel to panel and window to window.
Thanks for your help, and I hope I explained myself ok.
Bob 
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From owner-glass Thu May 18 22:27:14 2000
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From: "D. ONeal" <Moya-Don@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Church Design
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:28:04 -0400
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Bob,
I would keep it simple if you are concerned with cost.  You can continue
your theme for the altar by varying the sun's rays for instance in multiple
gold tones and utilize geometric shapes that waste as little glass as
possible.  For instance graduated rectangles for the rays interspersed with
doves and flowers and trees, etc.
Good luck,
Moya

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From owner-glass Thu May 18 23:34:37 2000
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From: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
To: "Stephanie N Larson" <pennyante@juno.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 16:52:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Precedence: bulk

Just into the seams of that particular piece..


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
To: <byronw@fastlane.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Glass saw


> That sounds interesting, Byron...do you solder it all the way across, or
> just in to the seams? That WOULD make great fish scales! ;-)
> Thanks
> Stephanie
> 
> On Tue, 16 May 2000 21:17:48 -0500 "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
> writes:
> > Along those same lines I've used thin wire to vastly increase detail 
> > in bird
> > wings,fish scales etc.
> > Byron..
> > Wells Glassworks
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
> > To: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:02 PM
> > Subject: Re: Glass saw
> > 
> > 
> > > OK, Stephanie.
> > >
> > > I can see that I will never persuade you to avoid getting a saw to 
> > do
> > > the impossible cuts.
> > >         Let me instead suggest another traditional way to avoid 
> > doing
> > > impossible things with glass.  Paint it.  Paint it with vitreous 
> > paints,
> > > with firing enamels, but not cold paints (they are too temporary 
> > what
> > > ever the label says).  Far too many people avoid painting to get 
> > the
> > > detail they want, instead trying to make impossible cuts in glass. 
> >  The
> > > impossible cuts will not last whole,  they will crack and break 
> > along
> > > the lines of weakness that the hand cut pieces did when you tried 
> > them.
> > >         If the detail cannot be achieved by cutting, then get it 
> > by
> > > painting!  That's my cry of the week!
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Stephanie N Larson 
> > <pennyante@juno.com>
> > > writes
> > > >Hello all...I'm considering buying a saw because of some 
> > intricate
> > > >patterns I'd like to try, but the delicate pieces seem almost 
> > impossible
> > > >to cut by hand. I hate to admit it, but I've wasted enough glass 
> > trying
> > > >to do these cuts that I could have bought a saw for the same 
> > money! This
> > > >is the first time I've really had problems. I always listen to 
> > all the
> > > >advice here on the List about doing it by hand first and 
> > foremost, but
> > > >I'm 'bout ready to give up. These are some beautiful faerie 
> > patterns that
> > > >I'm trying to do as gifts, but the fancy wings, faces and  hands 
> > have
> > > >really got me. I've been able to simplify the pattern (alot) and 
> > get by,
> > > >but I'd really like to try the beautiful ones in the book. 
> > Everyone seems
> > > >to like the Taurus based on prior Chat List offerings. Maybe 
> > someone has
> > > >an easier and/or better way for sticking it out with the 
> > handwork? Or do
> > > >I give in to technology? Any advice?
> > > >Thanks!!!!!!
> > > >----
> > > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > >
> > > --
> > > Steve Richard
> > > Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> > > s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > >
> > 
> 

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From owner-glass Fri May 19 05:41:31 2000
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Subject: Re: IGGA booth at July Rosen Show
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 05:22:42 -0700
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"Christie A. Wood" wrote:

> I'm clarifying some questions raised by Bob...replies are in the body of
> the text.

Hi Christie and PJ,

Thanks for answering.  Please excuse the LONG delay
in my response.  We 'just' (3 weeks ago) moved to our new home
(2 houses away on the same street)
and my DSL line was out from 00:01h (am) 28 April
to ~13:00h May 19 due to Pacbell's unbelievable gross
incompetence, extreme disorganization, and poor attitude
towards paying customers [shouldn't go into details I'll get po'ed
all over again <G>].  As soon as my 1 year DSL contract
is up, I'm changing ISP's ... and maybe getting a cell phone
with the idea to cancel "local service" entirely ... I'm
quite unhappy with Pacbell (guess that was hard to figure out
eh? <G>).

Anyway ... gotta keep movin' ... you wouldn't BELIEVE
the amount of email I have to go through.

Best regards ... Bob K.


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From owner-glass Fri May 19 06:29:41 2000
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From: Dina and Don Hess <ddhess@america.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Church Design
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:01:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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Another possibility -- Lutherans use a lot of symbolic images, don't
they?  I visited a beautiful church where they had windows with simple
(but very attractively done) symbolic images on against a consistent
background design -- dove, fish, anchor, key, rose, chi rho, goblet,
etc.  You could carry through the background design from the altar
panel, and some of the colors.

Just an idea :)  I don't know if actual Lutherans would like it!
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From owner-glass Fri May 19 09:06:20 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Depdee70
From: Depdee70@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: chuch design
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:37:19 EDT
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Bob I have been doing chuch windows for 4 years and have put up 61 
panels...each full window is in a colore ...say one in red ...one in blue 
etc....I do all the designing..   I do have my patterns and would be happy to 
show them to you or I can send you pictures of the windows...and you could 
look at them  and if you like one I will send you the pattern...Dee         
depdee70@aol.com
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: church design
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:10:27 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by INTERNET:ARTIZ01@aol.com
>I  need some idea of a design for a church.
There are 20 groups of windows, each group has a set of five panels 19" x=

31" =

and  are on top of each other and are divided by 4" stops. these windows
are =

also  5 "  apart from each group.
The Church is Lutheran and Traditional in design. Because there is so man=
y =

windows, cost may be a factor.  In the very front of the alter  I already=

did =

angels and a dove with sun rays flowing from the dove into the angels.
Can you help mwe out with an idea?  They do not want painted glass or any=
 =

saints.
I would like to come up with a simplistic design, and a design that would=
 =

flow from panel to panel and window to window.
Thanks for your help, and I hope I explained myself ok.
Bob <

How about an abstract representation of the Trinity?  Something based on
traditional color schemes for the three aspects of God:
Holy Spirit: red (flames), yellows, white
Creator God: royal blue, green, gold, white
Redeamer Jesus: purple, white, gold

And carry the abstract lines from one panel to another.  For more info
on symbolism and color schemes, you might want to get back issues
of 1999-2000 issues of "Stained Glass" magazine, published by
the Stained Glass Association of America.  They recently ran a
series of articles on iconography for churches which should prove
most useful for your design.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Fri May 19 11:33:52 2000
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: chuch design
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 12:54:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I just couldn't lurk anymore

Designing church windows is an awesome responsibility.  The conversation
that I have been hearing about these windows that Bob is to design is
atrocious.  You just don't take any old design and put it up in a church or
any other space for that matter. What about the architecture of the
building? What about the space itself? What about the congregation?
I think what you ought to do is get yourself a copy of Sarah Hall's book
"The Color of Light" http://web.idirect.com/~sarahall/html/main.html.
No I am not selling books and have nothing to do with Sarah Hall or the
publisher.  But I am concerned with the lack of professionalism and lack of
integrity that is heard in this conversation.

my best,
pj



Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Associate Member AIA
Member International Guild of Glass Artists

----- Original Message -----
From: <Depdee70@aol.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 11:37 AM
Subject: chuch design


> Bob I have been doing chuch windows for 4 years and have put up 61
> panels...each full window is in a colore ...say one in red ...one in blue
> etc....I do all the designing..   I do have my patterns and would be happy
to
> show them to you or I can send you pictures of the windows...and you could
> look at them  and if you like one I will send you the pattern...Dee
> depdee70@aol.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Fri May 19 14:33:58 2000
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From: "The Sietsemas" <sietsemas@lakeshore.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re:  Church Design
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 15:04:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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There was also a book called Religious Stained Glass for Today by Bill
Hilman.  I don't know if this is something you'd be interested in as well.
Actually, I don't know if the book is still available, but it was published
by CKE Publications out of Olympia, WA.

Lee

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From owner-glass Fri May 19 16:38:48 2000
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: chuch design
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:16:28 +0000
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> You just don't take any old design and put it up in a
> church

Well said, pj. Although having visited several hundred churches in my 
time, usually as a photographer, I can tell you that the "yard goods" 
approach is an old and ... well, generally accepted one if my 
experience is any guide at all. Even Tiffany Studios knocked out the 
same windows again and again and "plugged them in" where wanted 
elsewhere in the country. I suppose they kept track of things so they 
didn't put the same designs in churches next door to each other. 
<grin>

All the major studios did that, sometimes their work was top-notch, 
sometimes one wonders "what were they thinking!?" the quality is so 
bad. Even Tiffany Studios produced bad windows. Really bad, in some 
cases, unfortunately.

So when I go into a church where Something New has been conceived, a 
new approach to color and design is evident, it's like a breath of 
fresh air to me. Extremely exciting, but all too rare.

By the way, Sarah Hall's book has been getting raves pretty widely. 
It's not only available on her web site, but on Amazon.com and at Art 
in Architecture Press' web site - http://aiap.com if you're 
interested. Oh ... I run AiAP, just so ya know. <smile>

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri May 19 17:40:03 2000
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X-Path: juno.com!pkinnetz
From: Peggy L Kinnetz <pkinnetz@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: manufacturer experiences
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:34:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is exactly what I have. The bottom is the screw; there is no screw
head to tighten onto the flat shaft. It is delightful to be able to grind
some small detail tht otherwise wouldn't be able to, but i have to be so
careful.
It does seem that they tighten the wrong way.

Peggy
 

On Tue, 16 May 2000 23:32:14 -0400 Cecily and Ralph Wood
<cecnralph@home.com> writes:
> Or maybe you have one of the kind that allows a 1/4" head to screw 
> into the
> top of a 1/2 inch or larger head?  I've seen those and think they 
> are
> highly dangerous because you cannot possibly tighten them enough so 
> they
> don't eventually loosen and then the tendency would be for the top 
> head to
> fly off at high speed.  My instructor had one and I didn't want to 
> be
> anywhere near it.  And I really tried to screw it in hard enough so 
> it
> wouldn't do that.  Every time I walked by the dang thing I tightened 
> it.
> Matter of fact, I always wondered if it wouldn't have been safer if 
> the
> threads were reversed, instead of left-loose and right-tight they 
> were
> left-tight and right-loose, if that wouldn't have forced the top 
> head to
> tighten as it revolved, rather than loosening.  Ah well - physics 
> was a
> long time ago. (So, obviously, was English sentence structure!) - 
> Cec
> 
> "Christie A. Wood" wrote:
> 
> > Message text written by Peggy L Kinnetz
> > >But I do have a problem with these little bits coming unscrewed
> > from the adapter while grinding. They really are a pain. Has 
> anyone else
> > got a tip about how to keep these from coming loose?  <
> >
> > Make sure you are alligning the screw with the flat part of the
> > rod.  Then tighten the heck out of it.
>
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From owner-glass Fri May 19 17:48:28 2000
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: chuch design
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:58:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<200005192013.QAA21718@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Albert wrote:
<<Although having visited several hundred churches in my
> time, usually as a photographer, I can tell you that the "yard goods"
> approach is an old and ... well, generally accepted one if my
> experience is any guide at all>>


The "yard goods" approach worked in its day.  When churches were miles apart
and artists few and far between.  And a Tiffany that was done over and over
again and plugged into a church here and  is a tad bit different that what
the conversation here was going.  I don't know of any "Tiffany's" on bungi.
And even if Bob's work were the caliber of a "Tiffany" it still doesn't make
it right. Tiffany's ethics were always questionable.
I think there is just to much garbage out there these days and it is about
time artists started taking responsibility for what they do. Myself
included.

I agree that Sarah Hall's book is a must read for anyone who wants to take
the responsibility in creating spiritual work. Read it and learn.

my best,
pj

Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Associate Member AIA
Member International Guild of Glass Artists

----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: chuch design


>
> > You just don't take any old design and put it up in a
> > church
>
> Well said, pj. Although having visited several hundred churches in my
> time, usually as a photographer, I can tell you that the "yard goods"
> approach is an old and ... well, generally accepted one if my
> experience is any guide at all. Even Tiffany Studios knocked out the
> same windows again and again and "plugged them in" where wanted
> elsewhere in the country. I suppose they kept track of things so they
> didn't put the same designs in churches next door to each other.
> <grin>
>
> All the major studios did that, sometimes their work was top-notch,
> sometimes one wonders "what were they thinking!?" the quality is so
> bad. Even Tiffany Studios produced bad windows. Really bad, in some
> cases, unfortunately.
>
> So when I go into a church where Something New has been conceived, a
> new approach to color and design is evident, it's like a breath of
> fresh air to me. Extremely exciting, but all too rare.
>
> By the way, Sarah Hall's book has been getting raves pretty widely.
> It's not only available on her web site, but on Amazon.com and at Art
> in Architecture Press' web site - http://aiap.com if you're
> interested. Oh ... I run AiAP, just so ya know. <smile>
>
> Albert
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Fri May 19 23:58:23 2000
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X-Path: home.com!lorley
From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: ebay
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:51:50 -0700
Message-ID: <20000520035704.SXTK11091.mail.rdc1.az.home.com@cx795941-a>
Precedence: bulk

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions for using ebay to sell stained
glass items?? Lorley/Phoenix

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From owner-glass Sat May 20 01:30:59 2000
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X-Path: go.com!officerjqg
From: James Garner <officerjqg@go.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: ebay
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 01:13:56 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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I am addicted to ebay.  I have watched the stained glass portion for almost a year.  I have noticed several things.  If you sell glass without a minimum bid you will get screwed.  If you sell glass with the minimum set close to what it truely is worth you will not have any bids.  I like to use the supplies side.  I bought my startup kit there.  But you will have to wade through several pages of bevels etc to find what you might be looking for.  If I did not like in rual land I probably would just get those items at a store.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Lorley Oneyear"<lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Date: Fri May 19 20:51:50 PDT 2000
Subject: ebay

>Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions for using ebay to sell stained
>glass items?? Lorley/Phoenix
>
>----
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From owner-glass Sat May 20 08:30:47 2000
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Lorley Oneyear" <lorley@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: ebay/sg
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:13:51 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<20000520035704.SXTK11091.mail.rdc1.az.home.com@cx795941-a>>
Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk

Yes, you will have to sell it CHEAP!!!!!

>From the lampshade point of view, the garbage they show are IMPORTED and
VERY poorly done.

I get mail asking me my prices and how they compare to some of the auction
prices and can I do a "fly" cheaper.

Standard equation ADD a zero and multiply by about 3.

The usual disclaimer for auction sites: BUYER BEWARE!!!!!!!!!

enjoy, H




weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Sat May 20 09:21:19 2000
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X-Path: yahoo.com!agacic
From: Alex Gacic <agacic@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ebay
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:53:46 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi Lorley

I've had a little success with selling stained glass
on ebay.  I think its a good place to try something
out.  But you really need to market the stained glass
piece to a specific group on ebay, like business card
holders for a specific type of interest group.  Still
I think it's a tough sale and you could do better with
with a more direct marketing approaching.

Alex Gacic
Shalimar, Florida

--- Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com> wrote:
> Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions for using
> ebay to sell stained
> glass items?? Lorley/Phoenix
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat May 20 10:56:23 2000
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Liberty Church Advice Thanks!
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:43:27 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk


Thanks all for the great advice as usual on the church window. I would
love to see this window in it's present state and when it's fully
restored, I'm quite curious!

As an added note: A few months ago someone emailed me and asked me if I
could help them sell all the windows in their church. They were
remodeling and were going to throw these historic, very large windows
out. This someone decided that was such a waste and sold them all on
ebay. The church made a few thousand dollars and the buyers bought
history. They weren't stained glass windows but they were beautiful just
the same.

Pam



--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://stainedglassartists.com



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From owner-glass Sat May 20 13:30:46 2000
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X-Path: holtenwood.bc.ca!tim
From: "Tim Atwood" <tim@holtenwood.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: chuch design
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 13:16:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Holtenwood Studios
Precedence: bulk

I have also gotten a fair amount of inspiration by looking at the IGGA
Architectural Art Glass Light Show. (Run by the International Guild of Glass
Artists and hosted on the Bungi server by the same wonderful people who host
this Bungi list - Dave and Glenna Rand).

There are a huge selection of church and inspirational pieces scattered
throughout the Light Show.

Go to the main IGGA site at http://www.igga.org/ and select the "Light Show"
link. Or go direct to http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/lightshow/index.html

A few warnings though:
- There is a lot of stuff in there and it will take a long time to see it
all. If you wait for the 30 second delay between images you can expect to
spend over an hour watching it go past on your PC. You can speed things up
by clicking the forward arrow on the web page as soon as you see enough of a
picture to know it does not relate.
- You can pause by clicking the double bar || pause symbol. You can go back
with the back arrow.
- I was almost discouraged the first time through. There is some stuff in
here that I doubt I will ever have the skill level to achieve. Just look at
those ones as inspiration and realize there are also some simpler pieces in
the Light Show... :-)
- Please do NOT use the "Add your work" link at the bottom of each page.
Technical dificulties have delayed my updating the form linked here with the
newest IGGA contact information etc. If you want to contact IGGA about
adding pictures to the light show, please use the contact forms accessed
through the main IGGA web page http://www.igga.org/ .
- If you notice any errors or bad links, please notify me directly at
tim@holtenwood.bc.ca . Please do not send web error notifications to the
Bung list.

Tim Atwood - Glass and Wood
http://www.holtenwood.bc.ca/studios.htm


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From owner-glass Sun May 21 08:18:24 2000
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From: lee tollett <leetollett@worldnet.att.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: chuch design
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 06:37:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

THAT WAS NOT NICE  P.J.
    I build costume furniture as well as being a newbe in stained glass. PJ it
doesn't matter where some one gets an idea for a project.  One always looks for
inspiration at every turn, regardless if it is from a professional in the field
or just some shmo off the street.  I feel your attitude in this case was not
warranted.

Lee Tollett

pj friend wrote:

> Albert wrote:
> <<Although having visited several hundred churches in my
> > time, usually as a photographer, I can tell you that the "yard goods"
> > approach is an old and ... well, generally accepted one if my
> > experience is any guide at all>>
>
> The "yard goods" approach worked in its day.  When churches were miles apart
> and artists few and far between.  And a Tiffany that was done over and over
> again and plugged into a church here and  is a tad bit different that what
> the conversation here was going.  I don't know of any "Tiffany's" on bungi.
> And even if Bob's work were the caliber of a "Tiffany" it still doesn't make
> it right. Tiffany's ethics were always questionable.
> I think there is just to much garbage out there these days and it is about
> time artists started taking responsibility for what they do. Myself
> included.
>
> I agree that Sarah Hall's book is a must read for anyone who wants to take
> the responsibility in creating spiritual work. Read it and learn.
>
> my best,
> pj
>
> Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
> www.waterw.com/~artglass
> Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
> Associate Member AIA
> Member International Guild of Glass Artists
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
> To: <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 12:16 PM
> Subject: Re: chuch design
>
> >
> > > You just don't take any old design and put it up in a
> > > church
> >
> > Well said, pj. Although having visited several hundred churches in my
> > time, usually as a photographer, I can tell you that the "yard goods"
> > approach is an old and ... well, generally accepted one if my
> > experience is any guide at all. Even Tiffany Studios knocked out the
> > same windows again and again and "plugged them in" where wanted
> > elsewhere in the country. I suppose they kept track of things so they
> > didn't put the same designs in churches next door to each other.
> > <grin>
> >
> > All the major studios did that, sometimes their work was top-notch,
> > sometimes one wonders "what were they thinking!?" the quality is so
> > bad. Even Tiffany Studios produced bad windows. Really bad, in some
> > cases, unfortunately.
> >
> > So when I go into a church where Something New has been conceived, a
> > new approach to color and design is evident, it's like a breath of
> > fresh air to me. Extremely exciting, but all too rare.
> >
> > By the way, Sarah Hall's book has been getting raves pretty widely.
> > It's not only available on her web site, but on Amazon.com and at Art
> > in Architecture Press' web site - http://aiap.com if you're
> > interested. Oh ... I run AiAP, just so ya know. <smile>
> >
> > Albert
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun May 21 13:00:42 2000
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X-Path: hotmail.com!eugsterstefan
From: "stefan karl eugster" <eugsterstefan@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: vitreous paint
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 12:07:23 CDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

hi
has anybody a source of vitreous paint for stained glass painting and 
fireing?
is there a place they sell it online?as i live in mexico i can not find any 
paint.
also i am looking for plans to build a flash-type gas kiln.
thanks very much
stefan
________________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Sun May 21 14:58:02 2000
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Lead came "textbook"
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:50:19 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Christie for the info.  I do happen to have the book but never
thought to look at it in terms of text.  I have a lead came class coming
up and already three students want a "text" to go along with the class.
Peggy

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From owner-glass Sun May 21 15:27:49 2000
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: ARTIZ01@aol.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: church design
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:01:43 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bob:  You were asking about ideas for church windows.  The
configuration you described is similar to many of the windows at Chartres.
There is a book of Religious patterns which would serve well as a
reference.  As far as the designs themselves you will need to decide on
whether you are going modern or traditional; abstract or realistic; or
just what messages the church would like to communicate.

I was impressed with the windows in Chartres primarily because in ech
window the theme was always focused on the gospel.  Each window was only
4' x 4' but they were all configured so that when looking at it from
several 100 feet these 4' windows appeared as one.  I would be tempted to
design windows to tell a story about the church's missions.  Maybe go to
each sub-group in the church and ask them for ideas on what they would
enjoy seeing.  I would love to send you pictures of a couple of windows I
have done at our church.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Mon May 22 11:01:23 2000
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: church design
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:47:12 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

no I dont take any old design for our church windows..each panel takes a lot 
of my time just to design a panel it has to fit in with the designes of the 
church and with the Pastor...the color has to be just right..etc and you must 
have a good feeling about it and that you know that it fits in with Gods love 
I have had photographers come from all over to take pictures of our windows 
and also other church have ask us to do windows for them...and yes Sarah 
Halls book is very good.. If you need help. I am here,,,,,Dee
----
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From owner-glass Mon May 22 12:35:00 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
Subject: cementing came, thinners
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:35:50 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<20000516234800.SQTE11091.mail.rdc1.az.home.com@cx795941-a>>
Precedence: bulk

The thinner I use is called white spirit in the UK. It is not a
turpentine substitute, but a clear volatile liquid.  Someone will tell
you the USA name.  Do not use linseed oil to thin it, as that will slow
the drying time greatly.

Steve

In message <20000516234800.SQTE11091.mail.rdc1.az.home.com@cx795941-a>,
Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com> writes
>--=====================_1625576==_.ALT
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Then you 
>putty and white the panel for cementing. It's actually easy.
>
>
>
>"easy" ????  I've always had a bear of time cementing my came. The putty I
>used
>was the consistency of Play Dough and I'd force the putty into each and every
>crack and cranny. It took forever and was hard on my wrist. Is there a
>softer/thinner cement concoction that one might just brush or push in ??
>
>Lorley/Phoenix
>
>--=====================_1625576==_.ALT
>Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>
><html>
><font size=3>Then you <br>
>putty and white the panel for cementing. It's actually easy.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
></font><font size=3>&quot;easy&quot; ????&nbsp; I've always had a bear of
>time cementing my came. The putty I used was the consistency of Play
>Dough and I'd force the putty into each and every crack and cranny. It
>took forever and was hard on my wrist. Is there a softer/thinner cement
>concoction that one might just brush or push in ??<br>
><br>
>Lorley/Phoenix</font><br>
></html>
>
>--=====================_1625576==_.ALT--
>
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Mon May 22 13:00:26 2000
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Valerieksj@aol.com
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:49:33 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

I'm not the person who *recommends* the use of a rheostat.  It's just if
you must use one there are ways to make it fork for both copper foil
beading and lead came soldering.
        In fact, I use two different bits - one hotter one (rated at 800
degrees F) for copperfoil, and a cooler one rated at 700 for lead came.

And if I mistake your tone, forgive me, but we are not all consistent
all the time, are we?

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Valerieksj@aol.com writes
>In a message dated 5/16/00 4:17:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk writes:
>
><< 
> Good old technophobe here.
> 
> WOW! you pay 100 dollars for a blade to go into a machine that costs
> hundreds of dollars to cut glass?!!!
> Just think how much in practicing cutting in the old fashioned way that
> would pay for!!!
> 
> Steve
>  >>
>
>
>Steve, you CAN'T be the same person who recommends using a rheostat? What 
>happened to 'the old fashined way'? 
>
>Enlighten us steve. Why one and not the other?
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Mon May 22 13:33:28 2000
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Valerieksj@aol.com
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:46:00 +0100
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

My "Problem", as you call it Doug, is that many uses of the saw
disregard the limits of the medium.  Most art which is successful
respects the limits (while challenging them) of the material(s) being
used.  Saws can cut the glass in many ways that leave the final piece
with a number of weak points that will break very soon with any
handling.

Use your saw to your content as far as I am concerned.  

My suggestion was to consider the use of paint to achieve the desired
effects that can't be achieved by hand cutting.

Secondly, many people seem to me to be trying out saws early in their
careers.  If this is so, they will not develop their cutting skills
beyond an introductory level.  Perhaps this does not matter for those
who want to remain hobbyists.  It will slow their work rate down greatly
though, and will increase returns of broken panels and objects.

I guess I had just better keep my "problem" to myself.
:-)

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Valerieksj@aol.com writes
>Steve, what's yer problem? It seems as though you are against anyone who cuts 
>glass with a power saw. Are you 'one of those' people?
> Oh, for your knowledge.. I know how to cut glass 'the old fashioned way - I 
>did for all the years I worked at the studio here in Syracuse, and I still 
>do, however, as my mind broadens as I grow as a better artist, so do my 
>ideas. There is nothing wrong with using power tools do do work you can't do 
>with cutting 'the old fashioned' way.
>Doug
>
>
>In a message dated 5/16/00 4:41:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk writes:
>
><< 
> Good old technophobe here.
> 
> WOW! you pay 100 dollars for a blade to go into a machine that costs
> hundreds of dollars to cut glass?!!!
> Just think how much in practicing cutting in the old fashioned way that
> would pay for!!!
> 
> Steve
>  >>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Mon May 22 13:35:51 2000
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From: Valerieksj@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: (no subject)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 16:08:58 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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just replying to this note to, I see we agree more than I thought originally.


In a message dated 5/22/00 3:29:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk writes:

<< My "Problem", as you call it Doug, is that many uses of the saw
 disregard the limits of the medium.  Most art which is successful
 respects the limits (while challenging them) of the material(s) being
 used.  Saws can cut the glass in many ways that leave the final piece
 with a number of weak points that will break very soon with any
 handling.
 
 Use your saw to your content as far as I am concerned.  


>and I agree<
 
 My suggestion was to consider the use of paint to achieve the desired
 effects that can't be achieved by hand cutting.
 
 Secondly, many people seem to me to be trying out saws early in their
 careers.  If this is so, they will not develop their cutting skills
 beyond an introductory level. 

<another, very, very good point. During MANY restoration projects, I found 
myself 'uncovering' many pieces of glass that were cut by stained glass 
artists years and years ago,  which initially looked 'uncuttable'. They 
managed, and actually, its not that difficult to get most any cut you want 
grozing the glass.>>

 Perhaps this does not matter for those
 who want to remain hobbyists.  It will slow their work rate down greatly
 though, and will increase returns of broken panels and objects.

> yes, again I agree. I guess I do both. My restorations and commissions are 
of the proffesional level, my kaleidoscopes and things using the saws and 
such are very much hobby items. (but still pull in quite a bit)
 
 I guess I had just better keep my "problem" to myself.

<no, I think we established the 'problem' was mine. thanks for being nice 
about it!!
 :-)
 
 Steve
  >>



Doug
----
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From owner-glass Mon May 22 14:05:26 2000
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From: Valerieksj@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 16:09:26 EDT
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hi, forgive the tone of my original note. I'm not always the well versed at 
saying things, I just was puzzled that you didn't approve of grinders, 
claiming them as not being the 'old way', and yet you approve of a rheostat. 
Actually, it's really NONE of my business, as I think of it. I subscribe to 
both notions. As an artist of a local stained glass studio, I like to stick 
with the 'old ways' of glass working. (usually because of the types of jobs 
and restorations that we were doing)
 But as an artist of many mediums, I see the value in using grinders and 
bandsaws in the newer, more modern items I make on my own. Things like custom 
cuts on glass which will be fused to kaleidoscope sides or something. I do 
alot of 'unusual and unique' work. 

 I value your opinions, I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression of myself!! 

 God Bless

Doug
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From owner-glass Mon May 22 15:46:07 2000
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X-Path: 4esc.com!SAmt
From: Sonya Amt <SAmt@4esc.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Glass saw
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 16:48:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Steve:

I don't think you have a "problem".  I prefer to hand cut and grind my
little heart out.  I know that I then can trust my piece and can be as
detailed as I need to be.  Please remain open to this Bungie group.  I love
hearing all view points and believe that everyone has a way of working their
craft that is as unique as the pieces they produce.  I belong to the egroup
also and they end up discussing very trivial things but this bungi group
takes their craft very seriously and I appreciate that.  Thank you for
sharing your viewpoint!  There is definitely more than one way of skinning a
cat!

Sonya Amt

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 1:46 PM
To: Valerieksj@aol.com
Subject: Re: Glass saw


My "Problem", as you call it Doug, is that many uses of the saw
disregard the limits of the medium.  Most art which is successful
respects the limits (while challenging them) of the material(s) being
used.  Saws can cut the glass in many ways that leave the final piece
with a number of weak points that will break very soon with any
handling.

Use your saw to your content as far as I am concerned.  

My suggestion was to consider the use of paint to achieve the desired
effects that can't be achieved by hand cutting.

Secondly, many people seem to me to be trying out saws early in their
careers.  If this is so, they will not develop their cutting skills
beyond an introductory level.  Perhaps this does not matter for those
who want to remain hobbyists.  It will slow their work rate down greatly
though, and will increase returns of broken panels and objects.

I guess I had just better keep my "problem" to myself.
:-)

Steve

In message <1970Jan1.000.0@?>, Valerieksj@aol.com writes
>Steve, what's yer problem? It seems as though you are against anyone who
cuts 
>glass with a power saw. Are you 'one of those' people?
> Oh, for your knowledge.. I know how to cut glass 'the old fashioned way -
I 
>did for all the years I worked at the studio here in Syracuse, and I still 
>do, however, as my mind broadens as I grow as a better artist, so do my 
>ideas. There is nothing wrong with using power tools do do work you can't
do 
>with cutting 'the old fashioned' way.
>Doug
>
>
>In a message dated 5/16/00 4:41:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk writes:
>
><< 
> Good old technophobe here.
> 
> WOW! you pay 100 dollars for a blade to go into a machine that costs
> hundreds of dollars to cut glass?!!!
> Just think how much in practicing cutting in the old fashioned way that
> would pay for!!!
> 
> Steve
>  >>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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----
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From owner-glass Mon May 22 18:53:31 2000
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From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:28:21 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 5/22/00 1:34:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk writes:

> Secondly, many people seem to me to be trying out saws early in their
>  careers.  If this is so, they will not develop their cutting skills
>  beyond an introductory level.  Perhaps this does not matter for those
>  who want to remain hobbyists.  It will slow their work rate down greatly
>  though, and will increase returns of broken panels and objects.
>  
>  I guess I had just better keep my "problem" to myself.
>  :-)
>  
>  Steve

I do not think that you have a problem Steve. It is just that you have the 
experience to realize that new things that come along are often not good 
substitutes for the tried and true ways.

I have a diamond band saw and it is a very good one too. I use it every once 
in a while but for the most part it is not worth the bench space it takes up.

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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From owner-glass Tue May 23 00:04:41 2000
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From: "teresa ross" <teresar@attcanada.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: enroll
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 1980 23:23:04 -0800
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please enrol me on your list

thank you 
teresa

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From owner-glass Tue May 23 01:39:34 2000
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From: lisa@att.net
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Content-Type: text/html;
Subject: Finally, ordering Viagra and Propecia is EASY. 
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:14:58 -0700
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From owner-glass Tue May 23 03:17:48 2000
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From: "KSee" <kseeglass@netzero.net>
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Subject: IGGA Press Release: Craft Report
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 04:00:54 -0400
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The following press release is provided as a service to IGGA members. This
posting does not indicate endorsement by IGGA of these services, KSee, IGGA
Communications Committee.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

The Crafts Report NEWS RELEASE
The Crafts Report Launches First-ever Study of Online Craft Sales

Are craftspeople making money on the Internet? Craftspeople all over the
country want to know the answer to this question. Well, the wait will soon
be over.

The Crafts Report, the premier business magazine for crafts professionals,
is conducting the first-ever comprehensive survey of craft sales on the
Internet. The survey will be distributed to thousands of craftspeople around
the country, as well as posted on the Crafts Report Online, which draws more
than 20,000 visitors each month.

The survey will not only compile statistics on overall Internet-generated
craft sales, but also on wholesale sales vs. retail sales, promotional
spending, and methods of Internet promotion.

The survey will be posted on The Crafts Report Online from May 1 through Aug
15. Craftspeople can fill out the survey online at www.craftsreport.com. If
you have any questions about the survey call The Crafts Report editorial
department at (800) 777-7098.

A Survey of craft retailers to be launched in August

Following the survey for craftspeople, The Crafts Report will post a survey
for craft retailers to quantify their Internet-generated spending and
income. It will ask retailers how much they have spent buying craft over the
Internet, what percentage of their suppliers they have found via the
Internet, and what percentage of their sales to the public occur online.
Retailers will be able to access the survey through the Crafts Report
Online.
Founded in 1975, The Crafts Report serves as a forum for the exchange of
ideas between artists, retailers and show promoters, and aims to provide
encouragement and recognition, as well as industry news and information for
all crafts professionals. It also offers free information via the Crafts
Report Online to craftspeople seeking resources to advance their business,
such as show listings, sources for finding health and studio insurance,
suppliers, craft guilds, and grant-providing arts councils and
organizations, and access to The Crafts Report Online’s Discussion Board,
which connects hundreds of craftspeople and retailers each month with their
peers to share business advice and inspiration.

For more information, contact:
Bernadette Finnerty, Editor
(800) 777-777-7098 ext 201
bfinnerty@craftsreport.com
or
Noelle Backer, Senior Editor
(800) 777-7098 ext 203
nbacker@craftsreport.com


_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Glass saw
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:28:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Message text written by INTERNET:Bobfuses@aol.com
>I have a diamond band saw and it is a very good one too. I use it every
once =

in a while but for the most part it is not worth the bench space it takes=

up.<

I have the Taurus II, and I'm using it right now on a project.  I thought=

it
was the only way to cut out some pieces on a sheet of very expensive
Uroborus glass (once again I didn't purchase enough glass to have
a 'comfort' amount of overage in case I broke a piece while cutting).
I was wrong.  I ended up cutting the pieces out with my good ole Toyo
pistol grip cutter, and then using the Taurus II to shave out some curves=

along the rolled edge of the glass.  Both tools were used, but most
of the time my Taurus II sits on the grinder shelf, unused for long perio=
ds
of time.  But I'm glad I had it yesterday.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Tue May 23 13:09:39 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 23 May 2000 12:48:47 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: bigvalley.net!anyways
From: "Linda" <anyways@bigvalley.net>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Religious stainded glass windows
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:48:05 -0700
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I was checking out the upcoming shows for Lynette Jennings on the discovery
channel, and I saw that they were having a Glass artist as the guest on the
show. There was a link, I followed it,and when I saw these church windows I
thought I'd send the link along for inspiration to the person looking for
ideas.

 http://www.mcmow.com/worship.htm

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From owner-glass Tue May 23 14:37:12 2000
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X-Path: appleonline.net!anne-walker
From: anne walker <anne-walker@appleonline.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: great web site
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:13:50 +0000
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

here's a great web site - was this irish geezer great or wot?/

answers on a postcard ...

http://www.bpib.com/illustrat/clarke.htm







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From owner-glass Tue May 23 15:07:58 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 23 May 2000 14:40:14 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: clientes.euskaltel.es!elere
From: "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" <elere@clientes.euskaltel.es>
To: Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: lost all addresses
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:39:47 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
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Hello bungians
I have messed up my mail archives lossing all addresses, I would like to
recover glass links addresses and those of people I keep correspondence
with, please send a mail so I can answer back

Elena in Bilbao



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From owner-glass Tue May 23 16:08:31 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 23 May 2000 15:59:38 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass
From: "KSee" <kseeglass@netzero.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: IGGA Press Release-Mosaics
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:56:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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The following press release is provided as a service to IGGA members. This
posting does not indicate endorsement by IGGA of these products, KSee, IGGA
Communications Committee.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Wit's End now carrying new products lines:

Vitreous Glass Tiles; Pittore; Smalti; Unglazed Porcelain; Tiny Tiles, Mesh;
Circles; Mosaic Mix; 4" x 4" discontinued colors; Beach Glass and much
more...check it out

www.mosaic-witsend.com


_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
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From owner-glass Tue May 23 16:46:31 2000
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X-Path: home.com!lorley
From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: ebay
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:02:50 -0700
Message-ID: <20000523230809.PINB11091.mail.rdc1.az.home.com@cx795941-a>
Precedence: bulk

Sorry... ebay is an online auction site where a person can sell or bid on
"anything". You can take a look at www.ebay.com. I only made my first
purchase this week so I'm not too intimate with the site but it looks like
fun. One thing for sure, you can pass a lot of time browsing. Like one
giant garage sale. 

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From owner-glass Tue May 23 17:16:05 2000
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 23 May 2000 16:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: great web site - Harry Clarke
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:41:03 +0000
Message-ID: <200005232337.TAA05873@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> here's a great web site - was this irish geezer great or wot?/

Geezer? Looks a very dashing young man to me, but then I *am a 
geezer! <grin>

Albert, who turned 57 this past weekend
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From owner-glass Tue May 23 23:10:45 2000
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X-Path: bright.net!arasai
From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Welcome Teresa!
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 01:50:07 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi Teresa,
    Welcome to the bungi group! I am new to this group myself, and as a
newbie to stained glass, I have discovered a wealth of valuable information
from the pro's in this group. I hope you enjoy bungi as much as I do!
Sarah

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From owner-glass Wed May 24 11:00:43 2000
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X-Path: yahoo.com!agacic
From: Alex Gacic <agacic@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Old Bandsaw
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:27:50 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi everyone

Is anyone familiar with the Gryphon 350?  I saw used
one for sale with a new blade.

Also does anyone know if Gryphon has a webpage?

Thanks
Alex Gacic
Shalimar, FL

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From owner-glass Wed May 24 11:02:34 2000
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: great web site - Harry Clarke
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop.nad.adelphia.net>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:17:29 +0000
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I forwarded the recent commentsr about the Harry Clarke site to Julie 
Sloan, who agreed that it's nice and added, "since Harry Clarke was 
only about 36 when he died, I'm not sure the term "geezer" really applies! 

"Also, Bowe's book, The Life and Work of Harry Clarke is one of the 
best biographies of a stained glass artist I've ever read."

I think the book's offered on that web site.

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed May 24 11:27:04 2000
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X-Path: bardstown.com!glassx
From: "Glass Expressions" <glassx@bardstown.com>
To: "IGGA BUNGI" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/related;
Subject: help finding glass person
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:08:21 +0800
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hello this is ricky with glass expressions we just opened a studio in
bardstown ky.  and looking for a couple of  people .  the first is a
gentleman that we met at tampa glass show in Feb(ithink)  he was in jayne
perisco braclet glass-he man glass rings , sorry to say i've lost his number
any one know of this person if so could you please send info or phone email
anything would help.  and 2nd do anyof you know of someone in ky that makes
friendshipball or witches balls and beautiful faries/mermaids ect. that hang
about 2-21/2 inches.  i saw some in gallery and they would not share there
source.  thanks so much for all your wonderful help in advance-looking
forward to any info.  ricky glass expressions email glassx@bardstown.com


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From owner-glass Wed May 24 12:57:40 2000
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X-Path: exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com!DF125031
From: "Becker, Donna" <DF125031@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Table Top
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:37:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello again!
This time I'm thinking ... a kitchen table top!  Has anyone done anything
like this?  I've seen the advertisements for table parts for the small
tables, but I'd like to do a round table that seats 4.  Does anyone know a
supplier for large table parts?  
Also, I've never done a project like this, so I'd need some instruction.
Does anyone out there favor a book.  I know the glass cutting part, but the
rest I'm not sure of.  
And, lastly, any clever ideas, re: the pattern, construction, etc. you would
like to share.  I know this is not "serious" art, like most of you do, but I
really like the idea of trying new things, and it's the one hobby I LOVE!

Thank You ALL!

  Donna Becker
 df125031@ncr.com

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From owner-glass Wed May 24 13:31:49 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: IGGA inquiry
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 16:05:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey gang,

Does anyone on this list know the answer?

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:	valuline communications, INTERNET:vline@unidial.com
To:	[unknown], ensembles
Date:	05/23/2000  5:52 PM
RE:	IGGA inquiry

Is their another name for reverse glass painting? If so what is it? The
name Eglomace comes to mind but I know that it is spelled wrong. Thanks
for any help Jim Roberts
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From owner-glass Wed May 24 14:58:56 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: cementing came
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 16:05:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Peggy L Kinnetz
>I'm a bit behind in my email reading, and came across this tonight. What=
 =

exactly is whiting? It sounds something like plaster of paris, or chalk,
maybe. Can you buy it anyother place except a stained glass shop? =

(Remember, I've only done copper foil, and one oval panel with came
around the edge, that I didn't cement. Should have I cemented this? I
know its necessary for outside windows.)<

Whiting is powdered calcium carbonate, used for making putty, setting
up the putty (i.e. it helps harden putty), cleaning both glass & lead, an=
d
as shelf primer for kiln work.  After you get the putty under the came,
you put more whiting on top, and brush/rub that also up into the came.
This process is called "whiting" and removes any excess flux, oil and
putty from the came, as well as cleaning/polishing the glass & came.
It will also darken the solder & lead.  You can order it from any stained=

glass supply house.

Cementing the outside lead edge on a copper foil project is not
really necessary, since (I assume) you've soldered the edge at
all the solder joints.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Wed May 24 15:01:42 2000
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Art glass inquiry sent to IGGA
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 17:33:51 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Gang,

Another inquiry about some art glass.  Since I'm a stained glass artist,
I'm afraid I can't answer the question.  Maybe one of you can?

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:	"Terri Harvey", INTERNET:terrih@evansville.net
To:	[unknown], ensembles
Date:	05/24/2000  9:41 AM
RE:	IGGA inquiry
 =

Hello,
I was referred to you by Strat and Candy........?......a web site that I =
emailed regarding some glass that I own and am not sure what it is.  Let =
me explain.
In the early 70's, my mother in-law returned from Europe with a piece of =
art glass for me.  It is approx 6" around and 4" tall.  It is dome shaped=
, aqua/blue in color semi rough on the front, flat and smooth back.  Ther=
e are two polar bears carved from the back of the glass so as you look th=
ru from the front, you have the illusion of the bears being inside the gl=
ass.  I believe she purchased it in Sweden.  Can you help me?  I would li=
ke to know the type of glass, what the value is of the piece and where I =
can find more like it.
I have tried all sorts of websites for glass and no one ever responds unt=
il today when I received an email from a Strat and Candy Mc.........someb=
ody, who referred me to you and your website.  I am hoping you  can help =
me.
Thank you,
Terri Harvey=
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From owner-glass Wed May 24 15:24:03 2000
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Table Top
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 17:34:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Becker, Donna"
>This time I'm thinking ... a kitchen table top!  Has anyone done anythin=
g
like this?  I've seen the advertisements for table parts for the small
tables, but I'd like to do a round table that seats 4.  Does anyone know =
a
supplier for large table parts?  =

Also, I've never done a project like this, so I'd need some instruction.
Does anyone out there favor a book.  I know the glass cutting part, but t=
he
rest I'm not sure of.  =

And, lastly, any clever ideas, re: the pattern, construction, etc. you
would
like to share.  I know this is not "serious" art, like most of you do, bu=
t
I
really like the idea of trying new things, and it's the one hobby I LOVE!=
<

How's about a mosaic table top?  Purchase one of those outdoor
tables made from wrought iron & glass, then mosaic the top with
glass and grout.

Christie A. Wood
North Wales, PA USA
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From owner-glass Wed May 24 20:31:55 2000
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X-Path: home.com!lorley
From: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: online supplies
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:06:24 -0700
Message-ID: <20000525031149.JQMH11091.mail.rdc1.az.home.com@cx795941-a>
Precedence: bulk

Anyone know of a "well stocked" online stained glass supplier. Seems like I
just can't find some of the little things like marking pens or frame hooks.
Thanks, Lorley/Phoenix

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From owner-glass Wed May 24 21:01:51 2000
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Lorley Oneyear <lorley@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: online supplies
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:41:13 -0500
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<20000525031149.JQMH11091.mail.rdc1.az.home.com@cx795941-a>>
Precedence: bulk

www.warner-criv.com

Lorley Oneyear wrote:
> 
> Anyone know of a "well stocked" online stained glass supplier. Seems like I
> just can't find some of the little things like marking pens or frame hooks.
> Thanks, Lorley/Phoenix
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed May 24 21:08:00 2000
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X-Path: pd.jaring.my!shakabe
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakabe@pd.jaring.my>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: IGGA inquiry
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:37:50 +0800
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Eglomise:

Charles Bray's Disctionary of Glass describes this process as: A method of
decorating glass by the application of gold leaf which is then engraved with
fine point. The resulting decoration is not fired onto glass so it normally
protected by a layer of varnish or by another layer of glass.

Is hat any help?

Shakeel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 4:05 AM
Subject: IGGA inquiry


> Hey gang,
>
> Does anyone on this list know the answer?
>
> Christie A. Wood
> North Wales, PA USA
>
> -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
>
> From: valuline communications, INTERNET:vline@unidial.com
> To: [unknown], ensembles
> Date: 05/23/2000  5:52 PM
> RE: IGGA inquiry
>
> Is their another name for reverse glass painting? If so what is it? The
> name Eglomace comes to mind but I know that it is spelled wrong. Thanks
> for any help Jim Roberts
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Wed May 24 21:38:50 2000
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X-Path: bright.net!arasai
From: "Sarah" <arasai@bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: For Teresa
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:34:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Like you, I still do mainly small pieces. Right now I am doing angels for a
local church, I'm making the angels out of their old glass. The church is
151 yrs. old, I have no idea how old the glass is. Every time I start
another project, this church calls and wants more angels! They were my first
customer, so I give them high priority. I have a file for all the bungi
e-mails, and I have referred to them MANY times for help. I have also met
on-line people from bungi who are in my area! This is a great group of
people, you will learn a lot from them!
Sarah

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From owner-glass Thu May 25 04:41:40 2000
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X-Path: clientes.euskaltel.es!elere
From: "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" <elere@clientes.euskaltel.es>
To: Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: No SG- archivists, librarians?
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 13:20:47 +0200
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello bungians
This has nothing to do with stained glass, but with a translation I am
working on; are there any librarians or archivists in bungi who may be
able to refer me to info on archives/libraries management and
organization? Thanks in advance
Elena in Bilbao

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From owner-glass Thu May 25 07:38:59 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!NEICYDENN
From: NEICYDENN@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com (Bungi List)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: No SG- archivists, librarians?
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:15:07 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

 <A HREF="http://www.genexchange.org/tSearch.CFM">Click here: Search for a 
Volunteer</A> 

www.genexchange.org/tSearch.CFM

I don't know what kind of translation you are looking for but this might 
help:)
djd

<Hello bungians
This has nothing to do with stained glass, but with a translation I am
working on; are there any librarians or archivists in bungi who may be
able to refer me to info on archives/libraries management and
organization? Thanks in advance
Elena in Bilbao>>>
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From owner-glass Thu May 25 13:51:10 2000
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X-Path: thezone.net!robertcrane
From: "Robert Crane" <robertcrane@thezone.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: please help
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:05:28 -0230
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I have been a lurker for some time and have gotten plenty of help from =
bungi. Last week I injured the people from which I now need help, the =
people in the UK. ( the injury came in the form of my computer ignorance =
and again I got help from bungi) I thank those who offered constructive =
critism and now ask that you visit my website to help with my problem. =
http://home.thezone.net/~craney2/index.html=20

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have been a lurker for some time and =
have gotten=20
plenty of help from bungi. Last week I injured the people from which I =
now need=20
help, the people in the UK. ( the injury came in the form of my computer =

ignorance and again I got help from bungi) I thank those who offered=20
constructive critism and now ask that you visit my website to help with =
my=20
problem. <A=20
href=3D"http://home.thezone.net/~craney2/index.html">http://home.thezone.=
net/~craney2/index.html</A>=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Fri May 26 08:02:42 2000
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X-Path: clientes.euskaltel.es!elere
From: "Elena Rod4ríguez Echebarria" <elere@clientes.euskaltel.es>
To: Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: archivists librarians
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:08:27 +0200
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Hello bungians
And thank you very much for all the responses regarding the above
mentioned subject, I have quite a few references for the work and help
to do the translation, great help from you . If my colaborators or
myself have doubts I will contact personally those who offered to ask
others, but no need to bother more people for the time being . I
appreciate very much the attitude of this group, something to learn
about; some areas, like stained glass and other crafty work,  here in
Spain and other European countries, are treated with great secrecy, a
remain of old guilds organisationand they say. Well thanks a lot once
again and do not hesitate to ask for help from me in whatever I may be
able to help.
Best regards
Elena in Bilbao

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From owner-glass Sat May 27 19:15:30 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!GlsWorks
From: GlsWorks@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: No Mail
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 21:37:23 EDT
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I haven't received any mail from Bungi in a couple of days, anyone else 
having this problem?
----
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From owner-glass Sat May 27 22:34:06 2000
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X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes
From: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@iconn.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Craft Fairs listings
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 23:51:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Hi Folks,
Could someone tell me how I can find out about listings for craft fairs,
in the Southern New England area. I am located in the south central part
of Connecticut.

Thank you in advance,
Tim Byrnes

--


 Live easy, but think first.

 -- anonymous


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From owner-glass Sun May 28 05:31:36 2000
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From: lee tollett <leetollett1@home.com>
To: GlsWorks@aol.com, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: No Mail
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 06:27:33 -0500
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It looks like every one has gone on vacation.  I haven't received any
ether.

GlsWorks@aol.com wrote:

> I haven't received any mail from Bungi in a couple of days, anyone else
> having this problem?
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sun May 28 11:05:05 2000
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: No Mail
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:41:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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You all (me included) have been awfully quiet.  It's sunday and I haven't
been on for days, and only about 4 bungi messages..  Of course, this is a
holiday weekend in the USA.  Yesterday we took advantage of the
unaccustomed nice weather and went over to the zoo in Providence, RI.  We
wanted to get good photos of elephants and giraffes, etc., etc. to make
stained glass designs.  (Sounds like a good excuse to spend the day
outside, right?) Also, this is the big balloon festival weekend in town.
One couple got married Friday night in a tethered balloon.

Otherwise, we've had good shows the last couple of times out and we are
frantically working to build up our stock for the next couple of shows.
And I've been busy on special orders.  (Have one ready to deliver that's
hanging in my living room window right now.)  Completed two new designs to
make up this week.

GlsWorks@aol.com wrote:

> I haven't received any mail from Bungi in a couple of days, anyone else
> having this problem?

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From owner-glass Sun May 28 17:01:23 2000
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X-Path: gjr
From: "Helen and Arthur Rock" <rockh@westelcom.com>
To: <glass-request@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Industrial glass named "Cotswald Bronze"
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:56:43 -0400
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Hi:  Wondering if you can help me locate the industrial glass named =
Cotswald Bronze.  Your help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.  =
Helen P. Rock, 48 Seneca Drive, Plattsburgh, NY 12901-1153

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi:&nbsp; Wondering if you can help me =
locate the=20
industrial glass named Cotswald Bronze.&nbsp; Your help would be greatly =

appreciated.&nbsp; Thanks.&nbsp; Helen P. Rock, 48 Seneca Drive, =
Plattsburgh, NY=20
12901-1153</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sun May 28 18:02:02 2000
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "Helen and Arthur Rock" <rockh@westelcom.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Industrial glass named "Cotswald Bronze"
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 20:34:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

You could contact Bendheims in New York for that.  I know that Pilkington
does a cotswald.  Is that the glass you are looking for? Call the office and
ask for the architectural glass office.  Ask for Robert.

Hope this helps

S.A. Bendheim East
Contact: info@bendheim.com
61 Willett Street
Passaic, NJ 07055
Toll-Free: 800.221.7379

New York Showroom
122 Hudson Street
New York, NY 10013
Phone: 212.226.6370
Fax: 212.431.3589

my best,
pj




Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Associate Member AIA
Member International Guild of Glass Artists

----- Original Message -----
From: "Helen and Arthur Rock" <rockh@westelcom.com>
To: <glass-request@bungi.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2000 12:56 PM
Subject: Industrial glass named "Cotswald Bronze"


> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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>
> Hi:  Wondering if you can help me locate the industrial glass named =
> Cotswald Bronze.  Your help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.  =
> Helen P. Rock, 48 Seneca Drive, Plattsburgh, NY 12901-1153
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFC8A4.2CD03EA0
> Content-Type: text/html;
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> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi:&nbsp; Wondering if you can help me =
> locate the=20
> industrial glass named Cotswald Bronze.&nbsp; Your help would be greatly =
>
> appreciated.&nbsp; Thanks.&nbsp; Helen P. Rock, 48 Seneca Drive, =
> Plattsburgh, NY=20
> 12901-1153</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
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>
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From owner-glass Mon May 29 07:12:16 2000
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X-Path: texas.net!jcarter
From: Jamie Carter <jcarter@texas.net>
To: Sarah <arasai@bright.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: For Teresa
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 09:23:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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hello from Texas.
i would LOVE to meet any bugians in my area!  i live in San Antonio,
Texas.  jamie   jcarter@texas.net

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From owner-glass Tue May 30 01:31:07 2000
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X-Path: juno.com!pennyante
From: Stephanie N Larson <pennyante@juno.com>
To: leetollett1@home.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: No Mail
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:44:58 -0700
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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No problems here...I've gotten some. 

On Sun, 28 May 2000 06:27:33 -0500 lee tollett <leetollett1@home.com>
writes:
> It looks like every one has gone on vacation.  I haven't received any
> ether.
> 
> GlsWorks@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > I haven't received any mail from Bungi in a couple of days, anyone 
> else
> > having this problem?
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> ----
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----
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From owner-glass Tue May 30 16:28:53 2000
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Band saw.
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:12:45 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Good evening,

I know that there are a number of you out there that use band saws.  If
anyone out there uses it for cutting glass to fuse.  Could you please let me
know what type you use.  And if you really like it?

Thanks..........pj

Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Associate Member AIA
Member International Guild of Glass Artists



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From owner-glass Tue May 30 16:30:25 2000
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Slumping molds
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:13:58 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Good evening,

I was wondering if anyone had purchased any of the Bullseye molds.  And if
they did were they happy with them and where did they purchase them .

thanks..........pj

Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Associate Member AIA
Member International Guild of Glass Artists



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From owner-glass Tue May 30 16:58:32 2000
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Kokomo Cathedral
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:15:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Good evening,

I was wondering if anyone had used Kokomo Cathedral glass for painting.  If
so did you ever use it for silver staining and do you find it comparable to
Lamberts?

thanks.............pj
Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Associate Member AIA
Member International Guild of Glass Artists



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From owner-glass Tue May 30 20:30:47 2000
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X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes
From: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@iconn.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Craft Fair Info Thank you 
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:20:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Folks,
I just want to say Thank you, to all who sent me infomation on Craft
Fairs. I just picked up a copy of "Sunshine Artists".
Thank you to all,

Peace,
Tim Byrnes

--


 Live easy, but think first.

 -- anonymous


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From owner-glass Wed May 31 23:42:12 2000
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X-Path: aol.com!Bobfuses
From: Bobfuses@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Repost of saw info
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 02:17:11 EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Precedence: bulk

Subject: Re: Gyphhon Wire Saw
From: Ken Lucke <A HREF="mailto:ken@glass-stones.invalid">ken@glass-stones.inv
alid</A> 
Date: 5/31/00 9:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time

=> I was wondering if anyone has purchased this saw and if so what is the
=> opinion of the cuts you are able to make with it.


I haven't purchased it (yet, I intend to), but I've played with one
enough.  BTW, I *also* have a Taurus 2.2 ring saw.  Here are some
comparisons:

Taurus has square cross section ring blade, runs in continuous circle
like a band saw; Gryphon has a round cross section straight blade which
moves reciprocally up and down like a jig saw.

Taurus can only do inside cuts if you do a "cut through" to the area,
you cannot do a complete inside cut;  Gryphon blade can be removed and
threaded through a hole drilled in the glass to do complete inside
cuts.

Taurus is *much* faster; Gryphon is *much* smoother (I played with
mirror and it didn't even chip any silvering away outside the cut,
unlike the Taurus), but *MUCH* slower - this could change if they bring
out more aggressive grit blades.    

Other than smoothness, cutting capability is about the same (all
directions), although the Taurus' blade, being square in cross section,
can cut deeper into an absolute square inside corner.

The Taurus blade has to be cut at from all angles to use all portions
of the blade evenly;  the Gryphon blade is round in cross section and
can be rotated to even out its wear on all sides of the blade. 

Taurus blades are $85-$90 each and (purportedly) last 100 hours [if
your machine is not aligned properly, this goes WAY down, also if you
fail to replace grommets regularly];  Gryphon blades are about $25 for
a pack of three, and I don't know the lifespam of them.

Taurus keeps the blade wet with friction feed of water by the belt that
moves the blade, from a reservoir of water below the table;  Gryphon
"dribbles" water from an elevated tank through an adjustable flow valve
into a small catch bottle  (I like the Taurus system MUCH better here).

Taurus is considerably noisier than the Gryphon, but you easily get ued
to it.

Taurus was around $425 from my dealer, Gryphon is about $350.

Both are very good, both have their places - as I said, I am going to
get a Gryphon, not as replacement for the Taurus, but as a companion.

-- 
-----                                                               -----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Lucke                                      
The Next Step                                 email: ken@glass-stones.com
Stained Glass Stepping Stones         web: <http://www.glass-stones.com/>
SGSS Email List:    <http://www.onelist.com/community/StainedGlassStones>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cheers, Bob in 9 2 0 2 6
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