From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 02:31:45 1999
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio.stainedglass@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: nuggets
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 09:41:39 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.104139.0>
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At 20:06 30/06/99 -0400, Dani wrote:
>I would highly recommend you use a lead-free
>solder if you'll be wearing this jewelry against your
>skin.... lead is absorbed through the skin and why
>press your luck?  At the very least if you must use
>lead-containing solder, at least coat the metal on
>the jewelry with a clear coating such as nail polish.
>This advice would also apply to items like napkin
>holders or anything you would use near food.

And to expand the thought a bit - it amazes us how many people are offering
stained glass soldered jewellery and other items as mentioned above for sale
locally without either 
1.  stating clearly they are made from lead solder and displaying warning signs
2.  stating clearly they are made using lead-free solder and are safe to handle
Surely by doing the latter they would be gaining a *green* kudos to their
work over others who are still using hazardous materials for jewellery - and
make more sales.
But whenever I ask the vendor - are these made with leadfree solder? or Is
this made from lead? all I receive is a blank look or a change of subject.
Are buyers/sellers across the pond more au fait with the hazards and warning
labelling laws (and possible law suits from injured customers) than UK
crafters seem to be?  After all, other items - kids toys for example -
cannot be sold with lead paint applied and everyone adheres to that regulation!
EliZabeth in Bournemouth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 06:44:10 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Fw: S.G on TV
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:17:55 EDT
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In a message dated 6/30/99 4:14:02 PM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes:

>I suspect if any 
>homeowner tried to follow *these instructions, they'd be walking 
>their fingers through the Yellow Pages pretty quickly.

Actually, I suspect that in a lot of cases those fingers would be covered 
with Band-Aids, and limping rather than walking.

Meow, meow, meow, meow.......


Sparks
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 07:11:55 1999
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X-Path: one.net!kleeman
From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Thu Jul  1 05:34:37 1999
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.31237.0>
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i don't know if this is correct or not, but the when i asked the computer
nerd i live with about this (he is a programmer)
he said it is a disclaimer for yahoo to not get sued--for example, if
someone copies something off of mike's site, mike cannot sue yahoo for
copyright infringement---
even though it sounds like you are getting the shaft, yahoo is trying to
protect themselves

now, please don't flame me on any of these, i am only relaying what i was
told the computer industry feels is happening - IT IS MY OPINION - and only
my opinion
thanx
debbie



debbie taylor
kleeman@one.net
http://www.taylordexpressions.com
your complete stained glass supply source
1-888-488-9616



-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: EastGateXX@msn.com <EastGateXX@email.msn.com>; glass@bungi.com
<glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo


>And here is what another of my friends had to say about this...
>
>
>> >>>>>>
>> >With the new merger between Yahoo and Geocities, Yahoo has added a
little
>> >phrase to their
>> >Terms Of Service agreement which in effect gives them all reproduction
>> >rights to all
>> >content put on a Geocities web site. This means they can resell YOUR
>> >artwork with no
>> >compensation to you.
>> >
>> >For those people having a Geocities website to show their graphic
>> >creations, this means
>> >Yahoo/Geocities now owns the copyrights to the work you struggled to
>> >create. For those
>> >with a nice family website on Geocities, this means you could see your
>> >families pictures
>> >appearing in ads for family abuse services, alcohol treatment centers,
or
>> >any other ads
>> >that Yahoo/Geocities can sell the images for.
>> >
>> >The offending agreement can be found at
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >See paragraph 8
>> >for their greedy grab at other's intellectual property.
>
>Suzanne
>
>
>"EastGateXX@msn.com" wrote:
>>
>> VERY SCARY!  Although they seem to make no claim to the underlying
copyright
>> of the artist's work, they are making a claim to the representations of
said
>> work... that means they can do with them as they wish... including
T-shirts?
>> including Mugs?  How about books on Stained Glass Art (as seen on the
>> internet!)?...
>>
>> What about the modify part... They don't like the way your original piece
>> looks (on the Calendar of SG Art they produce and for which you get
NOTHING)
>> so they REDESIGN it and put in some really "kewl krazy kolors" ...
>>
>> UGH... watch out...
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
>> To: <glass@bungi.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:13 PM
>> Subject: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
>>
>> > Mike Savad...you come to mind right away.  What do you think of
>> > Geocities now Yahoo's new terms of service?
>> >
>> > As I understand it, they are saying that those pics of your original
>> > stained glass work is now theirs.  I'm wondering how this affects your
>> > copyright on that original design of yours?
>> >
>> > Are you planning to leave Geocities behind and find a new website
>> > provider?
>> >
>> > http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/20472.html
>> >
>> > quoted from the above url...
>> >
>> > > Under its terms of service, publishers must give
>> > >                      Yahoo a "royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable,
>> > >                      non-exclusive and fully sublicensable right and
>> > >                      license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt,
>> > >                      publish, translate, create derivative works
from,
>> > >                      distribute, perform and display such Content" in
>> > >                      any form or media.
>> >
>> > Pretty scary to me.
>> >
>> > Tulsa Suzanne
>> > --
>> > Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
>> >
>> >                                        ----Harvey MacKay
>> > ----
>> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>--
>Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
>
>                                       ----Harvey MacKay
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 08:43:24 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: "Rita Tidwell" <tidwell2@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: nuggets
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 07:42:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.0421.0>
References: <<1999Jun30.134946.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Rita,

Well, I learned how to wrap them by reading email and webpages. Wrap the
stones/nuggets/globs/marbles with your foil. Then get a small tub, like a
butter tub, fill it about half full with globs/marbles/unfoiled items that
you are foiling, and snap the lid on, and stand/sit/or give it to a kid that
likes to make noise, and have them shake it for about 3 to 5 minutes. This
will burnish the foil down to the object REAL GOOD. Then just flux, solder,
patina, finish,,,

I wrap by hand, only I have read and seen on pages, to take a small block of
wood, route a groove in it, fill half full with silicone, let cure, then use
that to put your foil on (sticky up) and roll the object down the groove, al
la wrapped object,,,

Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

----- Original Message -----
From: Rita Tidwell <tidwell2@bellsouth.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 02:49 PM
Subject: nuggets


> I need some advice. I want to wrap some nuggets to hank on cord for
> necklace(similiar to what Bud did). I have some silver foil(back and
> topside). Do I need to use silver solder also and what heat? I have only
> worked with 60-40 so far. Thanks for any advice. Rita
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 09:13:53 1999
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From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Fw: S.G on TV
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:38:53 -0400 
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.63853.0>
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It reminds me of instructions for tuning up a friends '73 Chevy Impala.
Step 1 was remove and inspect old spark plugs.
Three plugs were only accessible only if you removed the front tires and
went in through the tire well.
The number eight plug was in line with the steering column and required a
special tool or some strange innovations.
The other four were easy if you were double or triple jointed.

Instructions make everything sound easy.

Vic M.
Vmodino@ctronsoft.com

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net]
		Sent:	Wednesday, June 30, 1999 11:18 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: Fw: S.G on TV



		Oh, well. The writer (whoever that might be) says a couple
of times 
		that professionals should do this or that and I suspect if
any 
		homeowner tried to follow *these instructions, they'd be
walking 
		their fingers through the Yellow Pages pretty quickly. Not
to worry.

		Albert

		
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 09:16:05 1999
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From: "Glass Expressions" <glassx@bardstown.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: More info for the photo finishing question..pass it on
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:26:57 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.182657.0>
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just thought people intrested may want info passed on from a friend which is
professional photographer!
-----Original Message-----
From: Kirk Schlea <kschlea@mis.net>
To: Glass Expressions <glassx@bardstown.com>
Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 2:34 AM
Subject: More info for the photo finishing question..pass it on


>Making Dupe Slides from Print Film
>
>
>You may want to suggest to glass@bungi.com that color print film can be
>sent to Dale Labratories in Hollywood, FL (305-925-0103,
>www.dalelbs.com) and they can process the film and make slide dupes at
>the same time.  It is very inexpensive compared to processing, printing,
>and then making dupes at a later date.  Shooting multiples at the
>initial time of shooting is by far the cheapest way to go, not only for
>slides, but for prints - especially if doubles are made.  It leaves you
>with plenty to go around.
>
>Or, if your using print film and it is not processed at Dale's, ask
>whoever does it to not cut the film - leave it all one strip and sleeve
>it, and send that to Dale and they can make slide dupes from that.  It's
>cheaper that way than sending cut film.

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 09:33:09 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: <hotglass@list.bb.net>,
Subject: Updates to Intrastar Glass Website
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:25:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.1251.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Everyone,

http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/gallery.htm

The link above is for the main gallery directory page at Intrastar. Three
members have had updates to their image galleries.

Bud (myself, most of the projects that you have read about and discussed on
the lists, finally got the photos developed)(Thanks to all the folks on the
good words and thoughts about the projects, it feels good to know that I am
getting the hang of this working with glass)(got to go find some lead-free
solder, for them jewelry thang's, guess the four that I have made up, can't
go anywhere)

Nadine (three windows)

Shiela (earrings)

Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org



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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 09:48:06 1999
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:55:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.65520.0>
Precedence: bulk

Debbie,
I can't imagine anyone flaming you.  I think what you say sounds logical.  I
think I missed the beginning of the thread.  I presume Geocities has posted
new rules or something like that.  But that is why I did not elect to have a
web page on Geocities, I felt that they may have some say on my intellectual
property as they are offering this to me for free.  I think if anyone is
concerned about something being appropriated, the internet isn't where they
should post it, as the whole world is there, and maybe laws here in the
states might be strong enough to stop someone from using whatever it is, but
not going to happen with some guy in Poland that wants to borrow whatever it
is for his own purposes.
Linda Jo

-----Original Message-----
From: daver!one.net!kleeman <daver!one.net!kleeman>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo


>i don't know if this is correct or not, but the when i asked the computer
>nerd i live with about this (he is a programmer)
>he said it is a disclaimer for yahoo to not get sued--for example, if
>someone copies something off of mike's site, mike cannot sue yahoo for
>copyright infringement---
>even though it sounds like you are getting the shaft, yahoo is trying to
>protect themselves
>
>now, please don't flame me on any of these, i am only relaying what i was
>told the computer industry feels is happening - IT IS MY OPINION - and only
>my opinion
>thanx
>debbie
>
>
>
>debbie taylor
>kleeman@one.net
>http://www.taylordexpressions.com
>your complete stained glass supply source
>1-888-488-9616
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
>To: EastGateXX@msn.com <EastGateXX@email.msn.com>; glass@bungi.com
><glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 5:06 PM
>Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
>
>
>>And here is what another of my friends had to say about this...
>>
>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >With the new merger between Yahoo and Geocities, Yahoo has added a
>little
>>> >phrase to their
>>> >Terms Of Service agreement which in effect gives them all reproduction
>>> >rights to all
>>> >content put on a Geocities web site. This means they can resell YOUR
>>> >artwork with no
>>> >compensation to you.
>>> >
>>> >For those people having a Geocities website to show their graphic
>>> >creations, this means
>>> >Yahoo/Geocities now owns the copyrights to the work you struggled to
>>> >create. For those
>>> >with a nice family website on Geocities, this means you could see your
>>> >families pictures
>>> >appearing in ads for family abuse services, alcohol treatment centers,
>or
>>> >any other ads
>>> >that Yahoo/Geocities can sell the images for.
>>> >
>>> >The offending agreement can be found at
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>> >See paragraph 8
>>> >for their greedy grab at other's intellectual property.
>>
>>Suzanne
>>
>>
>>"EastGateXX@msn.com" wrote:
>>>
>>> VERY SCARY!  Although they seem to make no claim to the underlying
>copyright
>>> of the artist's work, they are making a claim to the representations of
>said
>>> work... that means they can do with them as they wish... including
>T-shirts?
>>> including Mugs?  How about books on Stained Glass Art (as seen on the
>>> internet!)?...
>>>
>>> What about the modify part... They don't like the way your original
piece
>>> looks (on the Calendar of SG Art they produce and for which you get
>NOTHING)
>>> so they REDESIGN it and put in some really "kewl krazy kolors" ...
>>>
>>> UGH... watch out...
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
>>> To: <glass@bungi.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:13 PM
>>> Subject: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
>>>
>>> > Mike Savad...you come to mind right away.  What do you think of
>>> > Geocities now Yahoo's new terms of service?
>>> >
>>> > As I understand it, they are saying that those pics of your original
>>> > stained glass work is now theirs.  I'm wondering how this affects your
>>> > copyright on that original design of yours?
>>> >
>>> > Are you planning to leave Geocities behind and find a new website
>>> > provider?
>>> >
>>> > http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/20472.html
>>> >
>>> > quoted from the above url...
>>> >
>>> > > Under its terms of service, publishers must give
>>> > >                      Yahoo a "royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable,
>>> > >                      non-exclusive and fully sublicensable right and
>>> > >                      license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt,
>>> > >                      publish, translate, create derivative works
>from,
>>> > >                      distribute, perform and display such Content"
in
>>> > >                      any form or media.
>>> >
>>> > Pretty scary to me.
>>> >
>>> > Tulsa Suzanne
>>> > --
>>> > Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you
promised.
>>> >
>>> >                                        ----Harvey MacKay
>>> > ----
>>> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>--
>>Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
>>
>>                                       ----Harvey MacKay
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 10:12:45 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: nuggets
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 11:09:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.6929.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.0421.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I spend way too much time burnishing the foil on nuggets.

I have never tried this method that you mention, because I have a hard
time believing it doesnt bang up/scratch/nick the nuggets.  Since I make
so many fan pulls with them,  and they are the only glass used it really
defeats the purpose if they are *clean* and pretty.  To me it would be
like selling a panel or sun catcher with cracked glass in it.

When I buy nuggets I always throw some away because they have been
scratched or nicked just by being bagged up together.

Also, I liked them **WELL** burnished.  Guess I will try your method
with some of my black nuggets (that I dont really want anyway) and see
if I think it is as good as by hand.  If so, it would save me a
tremendous amount of time.

Suzanne

> Then get a small tub, like a
> butter tub, fill it about half full with globs/marbles/unfoiled items that
> you are foiling, and snap the lid on, and stand/sit/or give it to a kid that
> likes to make noise, and have them shake it for about 3 to 5 minutes.

-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 10:40:15 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: daver!one.net!kleeman@h3.mail.home.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 12:33:51 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.83351.0>
References: <<1999Jul2.31237.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

daver!one.net!kleeman@h3.mail.home.com wrote:
> 
> i don't know if this is correct or not, but the when i asked the computer
> nerd i live with about this (he is a programmer)
> he said it is a disclaimer for yahoo to not get sued--for example, if
> someone copies something off of mike's site, mike cannot sue yahoo for
> copyright infringement---
> even though it sounds like you are getting the shaft, yahoo is trying to
> protect themselves
> 
> now, please don't flame me on any of these, i am only relaying what i was
> told the computer industry feels is happening - IT IS MY OPINION - and only
> my opinion
> thanx
> debbie
> 
> debbie taylor
> kleeman@one.net
> http://www.taylordexpressions.com
> your complete stained glass supply source
> 1-888-488-9616
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> To: EastGateXX@msn.com <EastGateXX@email.msn.com>; glass@bungi.com
> <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 5:06 PM
> Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
> 
> >And here is what another of my friends had to say about this...
> >
> >
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >With the new merger between Yahoo and Geocities, Yahoo has added a
> little
> >> >phrase to their
> >> >Terms Of Service agreement which in effect gives them all reproduction
> >> >rights to all
> >> >content put on a Geocities web site. This means they can resell YOUR
> >> >artwork with no
> >> >compensation to you.
> >> >
> >> >For those people having a Geocities website to show their graphic
> >> >creations, this means
> >> >Yahoo/Geocities now owns the copyrights to the work you struggled to
> >> >create. For those
> >> >with a nice family website on Geocities, this means you could see your
> >> >families pictures
> >> >appearing in ads for family abuse services, alcohol treatment centers,
> or
> >> >any other ads
> >> >that Yahoo/Geocities can sell the images for.
> >> >
> >> >The offending agreement can be found at
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> >See paragraph 8
> >> >for their greedy grab at other's intellectual property.
> >
> >Suzanne
> >
> >
> >"EastGateXX@msn.com" wrote:
> >>
> >> VERY SCARY!  Although they seem to make no claim to the underlying
> copyright
> >> of the artist's work, they are making a claim to the representations of
> said
> >> work... that means they can do with them as they wish... including
> T-shirts?
> >> including Mugs?  How about books on Stained Glass Art (as seen on the
> >> internet!)?...
> >>
> >> What about the modify part... They don't like the way your original piece
> >> looks (on the Calendar of SG Art they produce and for which you get
> NOTHING)
> >> so they REDESIGN it and put in some really "kewl krazy kolors" ...
> >>
> >> UGH... watch out...
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> >> To: <glass@bungi.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:13 PM
> >> Subject: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
> >>
> >> > Mike Savad...you come to mind right away.  What do you think of
> >> > Geocities now Yahoo's new terms of service?
> >> >
> >> > As I understand it, they are saying that those pics of your original
> >> > stained glass work is now theirs.  I'm wondering how this affects your
> >> > copyright on that original design of yours?
> >> >
> >> > Are you planning to leave Geocities behind and find a new website
> >> > provider?
> >> >
> >> > http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/20472.html
> >> >
> >> > quoted from the above url...
> >> >
> >> > > Under its terms of service, publishers must give
> >> > >                      Yahoo a "royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable,
> >> > >                      non-exclusive and fully sublicensable right and
> >> > >                      license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt,
> >> > >                      publish, translate, create derivative works
> from,
> >> > >                      distribute, perform and display such Content" in
> >> > >                      any form or media.
> >> >
> >> > Pretty scary to me.
> >> >
> >> > Tulsa Suzanne
> >> > --
> >> > Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
> >> >
> >> >                                        ----Harvey MacKay
> >> > ----
> >> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> >--
> >Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
> >
> >                                       ----Harvey MacKay
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it is saying that. but it's also saying that it will own my site if i
sign their agreement. which means they can do anything they want to it
forever and ever. i wanted to see how much space i was taking up last
night, so i know how much space i need for my site. i need a yahoo ID
and in order to get this id i need to agree with their terms. not gonna
do it... 

in fact i can't even remove my account without agreeing to it. and i
think if i used geomail, i'd still have to sign it....

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 11:03:13 1999
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X-Path: cros.net!soraya
From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Do-ability of published patterns (My piggie project (a real oinker))
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:30:25 -0400
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Dear Bob,

>Seems the server for cros.net is not responding so I'll stop here.
> Perhaps they forgot the second s in the name cros.net. <G>

You aren't the only one having problems with their servers in getting to my
site....I have let them know of the difficulties...

Thanks for liking my colouring skills!!  With the computer I can even stay
in the lines!! <|;p

Tke Care,
Soraya

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 11:12:08 1999
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From: "Lori A. Frawley" <frawley@bestweb.net>
To: <glass-request@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: An impossible dream?
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:12:31 -0700
Message-ID: <199907011510.LAA21919@rothko.bestweb.net>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Reader,

     I am searching for advice about stained glass, hoping to begin my own
project.  I have a window in my entryway which is a slider window- two
panes, side by side.  The right side slides over to the left side, leaving
a 3/16ths inch of a gap between the two panes.  I have this dream of seeing
a somewhat traditional pattern using rectangles, squares and diamonds,
maybe some beveled pieces.  I would like to be able to put these right over
the existing glass panes.  Is this a do-able project?  Obviously, I am a
beginner.  So, where would I begin?  I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Thank you.   Lori

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 11:30:29 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Linda Jo Letscher <andor@ilnk.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 13:08:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.982.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.65520.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Linda Jo Letscher wrote:
> 
> Debbie,
> I can't imagine anyone flaming you.  I think what you say sounds logical.  I
> think I missed the beginning of the thread.  I presume Geocities has posted
> new rules or something like that.  But that is why I did not elect to have a
> web page on Geocities, I felt that they may have some say on my intellectual
> property as they are offering this to me for free.  I think if anyone is
> concerned about something being appropriated, the internet isn't where they
> should post it, as the whole world is there, and maybe laws here in the
> states might be strong enough to stop someone from using whatever it is, but
> not going to happen with some guy in Poland that wants to borrow whatever it
> is for his own purposes.
> Linda Jo
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: daver!one.net!kleeman <daver!one.net!kleeman>
> To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
> 
> >i don't know if this is correct or not, but the when i asked the computer
> >nerd i live with about this (he is a programmer)
> >he said it is a disclaimer for yahoo to not get sued--for example, if
> >someone copies something off of mike's site, mike cannot sue yahoo for
> >copyright infringement---
> >even though it sounds like you are getting the shaft, yahoo is trying to
> >protect themselves
> >
> >now, please don't flame me on any of these, i am only relaying what i was
> >told the computer industry feels is happening - IT IS MY OPINION - and only
> >my opinion
> >thanx
> >debbie
> >
> >
> >
> >debbie taylor
> >kleeman@one.net
> >http://www.taylordexpressions.com
> >your complete stained glass supply source
> >1-888-488-9616
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> >To: EastGateXX@msn.com <EastGateXX@email.msn.com>; glass@bungi.com
> ><glass@bungi.com>
> >Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 5:06 PM
> >Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
> >
> >
> >>And here is what another of my friends had to say about this...
> >>
> >>
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >With the new merger between Yahoo and Geocities, Yahoo has added a
> >little
> >>> >phrase to their
> >>> >Terms Of Service agreement which in effect gives them all reproduction
> >>> >rights to all
> >>> >content put on a Geocities web site. This means they can resell YOUR
> >>> >artwork with no
> >>> >compensation to you.
> >>> >
> >>> >For those people having a Geocities website to show their graphic
> >>> >creations, this means
> >>> >Yahoo/Geocities now owns the copyrights to the work you struggled to
> >>> >create. For those
> >>> >with a nice family website on Geocities, this means you could see your
> >>> >families pictures
> >>> >appearing in ads for family abuse services, alcohol treatment centers,
> >or
> >>> >any other ads
> >>> >that Yahoo/Geocities can sell the images for.
> >>> >
> >>> >The offending agreement can be found at
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>> >See paragraph 8
> >>> >for their greedy grab at other's intellectual property.
> >>
> >>Suzanne
> >>
> >>
> >>"EastGateXX@msn.com" wrote:
> >>>
> >>> VERY SCARY!  Although they seem to make no claim to the underlying
> >copyright
> >>> of the artist's work, they are making a claim to the representations of
> >said
> >>> work... that means they can do with them as they wish... including
> >T-shirts?
> >>> including Mugs?  How about books on Stained Glass Art (as seen on the
> >>> internet!)?...
> >>>
> >>> What about the modify part... They don't like the way your original
> piece
> >>> looks (on the Calendar of SG Art they produce and for which you get
> >NOTHING)
> >>> so they REDESIGN it and put in some really "kewl krazy kolors" ...
> >>>
> >>> UGH... watch out...
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> >>> To: <glass@bungi.com>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:13 PM
> >>> Subject: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
> >>>
> >>> > Mike Savad...you come to mind right away.  What do you think of
> >>> > Geocities now Yahoo's new terms of service?
> >>> >
> >>> > As I understand it, they are saying that those pics of your original
> >>> > stained glass work is now theirs.  I'm wondering how this affects your
> >>> > copyright on that original design of yours?
> >>> >
> >>> > Are you planning to leave Geocities behind and find a new website
> >>> > provider?
> >>> >
> >>> > http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/20472.html
> >>> >
> >>> > quoted from the above url...
> >>> >
> >>> > > Under its terms of service, publishers must give
> >>> > >                      Yahoo a "royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable,
> >>> > >                      non-exclusive and fully sublicensable right and
> >>> > >                      license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt,
> >>> > >                      publish, translate, create derivative works
> >from,
> >>> > >                      distribute, perform and display such Content"
> in
> >>> > >                      any form or media.
> >>> >
> >>> > Pretty scary to me.
> >>> >
> >>> > Tulsa Suzanne
> >>> > --
> >>> > Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you
> promised.
> >>> >
> >>> >                                        ----Harvey MacKay
> >>> > ----
> >>> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >>> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >>> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >>
> >>--
> >>Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
> >>
> >>                                       ----Harvey MacKay
> >>
> >>----


what they're doing in underhanded and illigal. originallu geocities gave
free pages. then they had banners, they get money from the banners, so
much so that yahoo bought them for 3 billion dollars. the original terms
said that geo could promote themselves with your site. i don't mind
that. but yahoo is telling everyone they have to sign over to the new
aggreement. 

now i don't have to do anything, but in order to remove my account,
edit, delte, modify, upload, check mail, etc, i need a yahoo id. and in
getting that id i just signed their contract. so even if i wanted to
remove my stuff from their server i need to sign the contract. then they
could use that, get the backup, and use that for themselves. 

it's like someone buying your town and locking you out of your house.
then make everyone sign a contract in order to even get into your own
house. if you don't sign the contract you can't get in. if you do sign
it, the guy who owns the town can sell anyone of your private and
personal belongings, at anytime. either way your screwed - and that
would be illigal. he bought the land not the people. 

yahoo did the same thing. they legally own the servers, buildings,
people in the buildings, and the name. they don't own the content.
people are nice and give out free information to others. yahoo would be
making money from the banners, they dont' need to sell the content as
well.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 11:53:56 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: nuggets
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 13:49:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.94929.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.6929.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne Gunn wrote:
> 
> I spend way too much time burnishing the foil on nuggets.
> 
> I have never tried this method that you mention, because I have a hard
> time believing it doesnt bang up/scratch/nick the nuggets.  Since I make
> so many fan pulls with them,  and they are the only glass used it really
> defeats the purpose if they are *clean* and pretty.  To me it would be
> like selling a panel or sun catcher with cracked glass in it.
> 
> When I buy nuggets I always throw some away because they have been
> scratched or nicked just by being bagged up together.
> 
> Also, I liked them **WELL** burnished.  Guess I will try your method
> with some of my black nuggets (that I dont really want anyway) and see
> if I think it is as good as by hand.  If so, it would save me a
> tremendous amount of time.
> 
> Suzanne
> 
> > Then get a small tub, like a
> > butter tub, fill it about half full with globs/marbles/unfoiled items that
> > you are foiling, and snap the lid on, and stand/sit/or give it to a kid that
> > likes to make noise, and have them shake it for about 3 to 5 minutes.
> 
> --
> Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
> 
>                                        ----Harvey MacKay


generally i do it by hand. i get a better finish. though i also lightly
grind the edges. just enough to get a rough spot, it also shows me the
center of the blob. then i rub it down. i rub it down like i would peel
a potato.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 12:19:53 1999
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'bungi'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:37:28 -0400 
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.93728.0>
Precedence: bulk

yahoo has changed their policy due to boycotts and customers dropping
service, effective at 3pm yesterday.

see http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/20518.html for an article
on the topic, and http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ for the new terms of
service.

regards,
charlie
phx, az
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 12:26:31 1999
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From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: working on website
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:56:19 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.35619.0>
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Have fun scanning the glass images.

Photoshop is a great tool and you can usually use it to correct for many of
the deficiencies you will probably find in the straight scans of glass
pictures.  For some reason glass seems to be particularly difficult to get
the depth and richness to come through on the photo/scan.

One note though: Photoshop is particularly bad at optimizing the digital
images for the Web.  On the Internet it is very important to have small
files which will download before people give up.  Doing this yet still
having the richness and color is something Photoshop just plain will not do
well.

Instead Adobe chose to put these Web image functions into the standalone
tool ImageReady.  However, at $300-400 I think ImageReady is way overpriced
for what you get.

You can get most of the functionality you need with Photoshop compatible
Plug-Ins available for the $35-100 range.  Send me a note if you want my
evaluation of the seven or eight web image optimization Plug-Ins I tested
and which I chose.

-----Original Message-----
From: Claudette Jaramillo <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 11:03 PM
Subject: working on website


>The local community college where I teach part time, just gave me some
space
>on their server.  So I am gathering pictures of glass (I now wish I had
>taken pictures before I gave projects as presents.)  My son gave me Adobe
>PageMill with Adobe Photoshop. I already had a scanner.  So, I haven't a
>clue how to do this, but I am told, it is not that hard.  (and then they
>laughed!)
>
>I am kinda excited...it feels the same as the feeling I got when I
purchased
>my first cellular phone and talked on the phone while driving (I know, I
>know), or when I learned to do animation on a computer.  Who would have
>thunk,  I could do this ?!  Damn, but the nineties have been full of
>electronic surprises!
>
>I will write after the weekend, if this thing flies...or maybe I'll write
by
>Christmas, if it doesn't.  claudette
>
>----
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>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 12:48:23 1999
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: "Lori A. Frawley" <frawley@bestweb.net>
Subject: Re: An impossible dream?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@POP>
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:27:14 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

>  I have
> this dream of seeing a somewhat traditional pattern using
> rectangles, squares and diamonds, maybe some beveled pieces.  I
> would like to be able to put these right over the existing glass
> panes.  Is this a do-able project?  

Hi, Lori.

Sure, it's possible. Absolutely.

The funny thing is, straight-line projects are often more frustrating 
than curved-line projects, since any deviation from the straight line 
is immediately apparent to the eye. I've seen seasoned craftspeople 
try to replicate Frank Lloyd Wright panels and then throw their hands 
up in frustration because they ended up with sort of a 'wave' 
effect rather than the rectilinear Prairie Style effect they had 
envisioned.

Should you give up? No, not at all. But just be aware that you're 
starting off on something that's not quite as easy as it looks. As 
you cut the pieces, they must be exact, parallel and accurately 
square (or not, as the case may be). You must build the panels 
tightly to the square, so you should check everything as you go, 
rather than after the whole panel's built.  I did sort of a similar 
thing the other day; built a foldaway patio table of pressure-treated 
wood (okay, it's not glass: sue me!) but was careful to check the 
square on every 2x2 that I added and was glad I had: the table turned 
out great and so it folds neatly into the wall, appearing to be just 
an extension of the 2x2 grid that's below it.

That's the secret: taking pains as you build something, whether it's 
a double-hung transom like yours, a foldaway table, or a house. Good 
luck with your project!

Albert


Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-7946  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page        http://igga.org/
Member Studios   http://igga.org/guildtop.htm
Sources Guide    http://igga.org/guide.htm
Guild Library    http://aiap.com/amazon/
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 12:54:12 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 13:58:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.85816.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.982.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Ohhhhhh!!  One big thing that Freeservers.com allows...that Geocities
never did..you can *sell from your *free site!

Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 13:33:04 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Thanks: Website
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:05:11 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.5511.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to everyone who looked at the new website and sent me your comments.
I really appreciate it and it has been very helpful.

For those of you who could not connect, it seems this has now cleared up for
most people.  I was originally under the impression that the domain name
would be picked up by various servers just by being registered and
available.  Apparently this is not so - many branches on the web only start
propagating the domain after they have had an actual access for that domain
flow through them from some other server.  Since I was only testing from a
few logons in British Columbia, the domain name had not propagated to some
web branches outside of Canada.  By accessing my site you have helped me out
immensely by causing the new domain name to propagate throughout the web.

I have also fixed all the typo's and weirdnesses some of you found for me.
Thanks again for all the help.

For any of you with stained glass or other art related sites: I would be
happy to cross link to your site from my links page.  Just send me the url.
If you have a standardized link logo in the usual 100 to120 pixel width,
aprox. 66 pixel height and 4KB or less, send that also and I will use it for
the link.  In return I will send you my link logo and a standard html link
you can copy.

Holtenwood Gallery - http://www.holtenwood.bc.ca/gallery.htm
Tim Atwood - Glass and Wood - http://www.holtenwood.bc.ca/studios.htm
Jewelry by Adriana - http://www.holtenwood.bc.ca/adriana.htm
Computing Solutions Canada - http://www.holtenwood.bc.ca/csc.htm



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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 13:53:19 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 15:42:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.114226.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.93728.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Spitzer, Charlie wrote:
> 
> yahoo has changed their policy due to boycotts and customers dropping
> service, effective at 3pm yesterday.
> 
> see http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/20518.html for an article
> on the topic, and http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ for the new terms of
> service.
> 
> regards,
> charlie
> phx, az
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah, unfortunally it says the same thing. basically it says now, that
they don't own you right this very second. once you sign it, then they
own you. and that includeds anything that has to do with using that
yahoo id.

the whole thing is very fishy and underhanded. it's like having to pay
the grand nagus just to speak with him. and if yahoo can get away with
this imagine the future:

a few years from now windows will release a version that you have to pay
microst each time you log on your computer. in order to get the software
to install, you have to sign there agreement, stating that everytime you
log on, you have to pay a couple of bucks for the privaledge of using
their software. then it will automatically be debited from your
microsoft online credit card.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 14:23:53 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: <hotglass@list.bb.net>,
Subject: Website down for revamp, New pic's
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:48:05 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.5485.0>
References: <<ec446082.24acfa6c@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Everyone,

Many of you have been emailing me to ask "What Happened to the Intrastar
Glass List Site???"

The site is hosted on Shirley's server in Texas, I only did the html and
images, and also have agreed to maintain the site with updates as selfless
service to the glass lists. So I FTP the files from California to Texas,
that is far as my control/input goes.

The problem is/was,

I thought Shirley had completely reviewed the site, there was one page (a
privacy statement, a generic template that I copied from another site, that
I did a search and replace on), that was only linked from one place, and
that was on the subscription form. Now most of us, would not even go to the
subscription form, since we are already subscribed.

Some of the statements in the privacy statement were not approved of by
Shirley, and she sent me a email telling me that she pulled the site today.
Now do not worry, I maintain a complete copy of the site on my computer. So
if the site was deleted, once this get's worked out, then it can be restored
from my copy ( I have already removed the offending link, and html file from
my copy).

If all she did was move the files, I have sent her a updated subscription
form html file, that does not have the offending link in it, and instruction
on how to fix the problem (delete offending file, copy new one over old
one ). So the site ought to be back up soon if this was all that happened.

Just one of those little things, that happen. Thought it was good idea,
guess it wasn't,,,

:-)

Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

----- Original Message -----
From: <Romajoco@aol.com>
To: <glass@intrastar.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 10:07 AM
Subject: All New Pictures


> Thanks Bud for being so prompt in putting them up....for some reason I
still
> cannot get the other site to pull up.  I have cut and pasted the URL from
> Shirley's' post, I have typed it in and have gotten the same message all
> week.
>
> Bud, your work and talent is growing by leaps and bounds.  Your angels
really
> are terrific and I believe it is because they still continue to look over
you.
>
> Shiela, love your earrings. You have really been busy since getting your
kiln.
>
> Nadine, love your new works also.  They are just totally awesome.
>
> Margie
>


----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 14:28:30 1999
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: nuggets
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:50:13 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.215013.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.6929.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello

I have had nuggets scratched as you said and my 'saving' nature would not
let me throw them out.

I had acculumated a few when I had an inspiration and tumbled them! Beach
glass nuggets!
Just a Thought!

I have burnished foil onto nuggets using the jar technique but would not use
the monkey or small child method. It only takes a few moments to do a decent
job whilst minimising the damage.  Just use a little more sense than
frenzy!!!  I always used a glass jar and waved it in a circle so the nuggets
ran around the inside. Y would  acknowledge that a plastic one be more
sensible but would use a round one!!

Having said all that I usually foil one by one!


> When I buy nuggets I always throw some away because they have been
> scratched or nicked just by being bagged up together.
>
> Also, I liked them **WELL** burnished.  Guess I will try your method
> with some of my black nuggets (that I dont really want anyway) and see
> if I think it is as good as by hand.  If so, it would save me a
> tremendous amount of time.
>
> Suzanne
>
> > Then get a small tub, like a
> > butter tub, fill it about half full with globs/marbles/unfoiled items
that
> > you are foiling, and snap the lid on, and stand/sit/or give it to a kid
that
> > likes to make noise, and have them shake it for about 3 to 5 minutes.
>
> --


----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 16:55:02 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: <hotglass@list.bb.net>,
Subject: Website down for revamp, New pic's
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:48:05 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.5485.0>
References: <<ec446082.24acfa6c@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Everyone,

Many of you have been emailing me to ask "What Happened to the Intrastar
Glass List Site???"

The site is hosted on Shirley's server in Texas, I only did the html and
images, and also have agreed to maintain the site with updates as selfless
service to the glass lists. So I FTP the files from California to Texas,
that is far as my control/input goes.

The problem is/was,

I thought Shirley had completely reviewed the site, there was one page (a
privacy statement, a generic template that I copied from another site, that
I did a search and replace on), that was only linked from one place, and
that was on the subscription form. Now most of us, would not even go to the
subscription form, since we are already subscribed.

Some of the statements in the privacy statement were not approved of by
Shirley, and she sent me a email telling me that she pulled the site today.
Now do not worry, I maintain a complete copy of the site on my computer. So
if the site was deleted, once this get's worked out, then it can be restored
from my copy ( I have already removed the offending link, and html file from
my copy).

If all she did was move the files, I have sent her a updated subscription
form html file, that does not have the offending link in it, and instruction
on how to fix the problem (delete offending file, copy new one over old
one ). So the site ought to be back up soon if this was all that happened.

Just one of those little things, that happen. Thought it was good idea,
guess it wasn't,,,

:-)

Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

----- Original Message -----
From: <Romajoco@aol.com>
To: <glass@intrastar.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 10:07 AM
Subject: All New Pictures


> Thanks Bud for being so prompt in putting them up....for some reason I
still
> cannot get the other site to pull up.  I have cut and pasted the URL from
> Shirley's' post, I have typed it in and have gotten the same message all
> week.
>
> Bud, your work and talent is growing by leaps and bounds.  Your angels
really
> are terrific and I believe it is because they still continue to look over
you.
>
> Shiela, love your earrings. You have really been busy since getting your
kiln.
>
> Nadine, love your new works also.  They are just totally awesome.
>
> Margie
>


----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 17:08:27 1999
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: nuggets
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:50:13 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.215013.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.6929.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello

I have had nuggets scratched as you said and my 'saving' nature would not
let me throw them out.

I had acculumated a few when I had an inspiration and tumbled them! Beach
glass nuggets!
Just a Thought!

I have burnished foil onto nuggets using the jar technique but would not use
the monkey or small child method. It only takes a few moments to do a decent
job whilst minimising the damage.  Just use a little more sense than
frenzy!!!  I always used a glass jar and waved it in a circle so the nuggets
ran around the inside. Y would  acknowledge that a plastic one be more
sensible but would use a round one!!

Having said all that I usually foil one by one!


> When I buy nuggets I always throw some away because they have been
> scratched or nicked just by being bagged up together.
>
> Also, I liked them **WELL** burnished.  Guess I will try your method
> with some of my black nuggets (that I dont really want anyway) and see
> if I think it is as good as by hand.  If so, it would save me a
> tremendous amount of time.
>
> Suzanne
>
> > Then get a small tub, like a
> > butter tub, fill it about half full with globs/marbles/unfoiled items
that
> > you are foiling, and snap the lid on, and stand/sit/or give it to a kid
that
> > likes to make noise, and have them shake it for about 3 to 5 minutes.
>
> --


----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 17:40:30 1999
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	for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:40:06 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram
From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: nuggets -Suzanne
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:02:21 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.9221.0>
Precedence: bulk

I find that shaking them, does exactly as you fear.  I sometimes cannot use
what I just foiled.  However, if I gently swish them around in a plastic
container, it takes longer but I damage fewer.  So while this method is
quicker, it can damage of few if not careful.  They can be well burnished,
just keep checking.  The longer you swish, the better the burnish.  I use
the same unfoiled ones (extras I use in a small batch)....over and over
again, because those you can just figure as waste.  So save those black ones
you do not like...and use them with the foiled ones.  claudette

----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 20:00:53 1999
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: wisteria, weeping willows, small piece nightmares in glass
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 16:48:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.124842.0>
References: <<1999Jun30.115850.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I've just done a pattern containing lupines.  Lupines are flowers with
innumerable small parts.  i didn't try to be anatomically correct.  I went for
the overall shape and impression of lupines. Particularly if your tree is at a
distance, get the overall shape right and use wavy up-and down lines to give the
impression of long leaves.  Good luck.

J&RinMonroe wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The thread on patterns is of special interest as I'm attempting to turn a
> picture I found into a Stained glass picture.  My problem is how to deal
> with the tree in the picture-it's probably a weeping willow-all those little
> pointed pieces of glass are giving me nightmares-I'm sure the glass will get
> lost in solder.

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 21:03:26 1999
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X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram
From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: websites-Tim
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:14:51 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.91451.0>
Precedence: bulk

Please send me your evaluation...also if you know if I can buy these over
the net...I live in the wild, wild west, and it is far to the nearest
computer store.  I do most of my shopping via the net.  Two more electronic
miracles, shopping on the net and the debit card!  cj

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 21:24:58 1999
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: looking for inspiration
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 17:09:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.13946.0>
Precedence: bulk

...again...I'm actually looking for examples of graphics arts from the
20's and 30's...Art Deco type things.  I will be going to the library
tomorrow, but if anyone knows of a Web site, I'd be grateful.  (Most of
what I've found so far deals with the Art Deco architecture.)  I have
this VERY vague idea in my head for a design that I'd like to be
somewhat true to the period.
Dorothy

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 21:25:02 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: 8 little piggies
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:01:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.14154.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Claudette Jaramillo"
>Christie, I finally saw the pigs.  Call me crazy, but I liked the lamp! =

It
has a touch of whimsy, and if the person is into live pigs, I would think=

it
would be a very pleasing lamp and a great conversational piece.    I can
see
that each pig is expressive and fun.  Good work!!! cj<

Gee, thanks.  The owners liked it so much they made me
promise I would never make another one just like theirs.
As if I ever would.........

Christie Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 21:45:47 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: wosteria, weeping willows....
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 22:22:22 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.172222.0>
Precedence: bulk

> > The thread on patterns is of special interest as I'm attempting to turn a
> > picture I found into a Stained glass picture.  My problem is how to deal
> > with the tree in the picture-it's probably a weeping willow-all those little
> > pointed pieces of glass are giving me nightmares-I'm sure the glass will get
> > lost in solder.

Maybe you can find that perfect art glass that can do alot of the work
for you and minimize the number of peices needed....

try looking at the pic of the tree...blurring your eyes... dont focus
on the leaves, but the shading and textures...

Just a thought.

T Suz
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 21:54:14 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: lead free 
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:52:57 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.145257.0>
References: <<B0002277882@mailhost.lds.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

> It's all well and done to think you're okay to just use lead-free solder
but think about it for a minute... okay, done?... now you've probably
figured out that you've got to use an uncontaminated flux and flux brush
that's never been used on a lead solder project, and flush your soldering
iron tip to remove as much lead from it as possible...

Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: studio@stainedglass.co.uk
> <studio.stainedglass@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk>
> To: <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: July 1, 1999 4:41 AM
> Subject: Re: nuggets
>
>
> > At 20:06 30/06/99 -0400, Dani wrote:
> > >I would highly recommend you use a lead-free
> > >solder if you'll be wearing...
>
>
>

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 22:07:47 1999
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From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio.stainedglass@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: nuggets
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:46:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.144617.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.104139.0>>
Precedence: bulk

It's all well and done to think you're okay to just use lead-free solder but
think about it for a minute... okay, done?... now you've probably figured
out that you've got to use an uncontaminated flux and flux brush that's
never been used on a lead solder project, and flush your soldering iron tip
to remove as much lead from it as possible...
Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

----- Original Message -----
From: studio@stainedglass.co.uk
<studio.stainedglass@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: July 1, 1999 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: nuggets


> At 20:06 30/06/99 -0400, Dani wrote:
> >I would highly recommend you use a lead-free
> >solder if you'll be wearing...

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 22:20:39 1999
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From: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 16:35:20 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.93520.0>
References: <<1999Jul2.31237.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Debbie.  This is not a flame ... but some things in
your email bear
correcting.  This might seem like a flame, but believe me
this is not.  I
reserve that for special and very rare occasions (which this
is not), like when
someone attacks me and I stand to lose something.

daver!one.net!kleeman@earthlink.net wrote:

> i don't know if this is correct or not,

it is not correct


> but the when i asked the computer nerd i live with about this (he is a
> programmer)

So what?  I do computer programming too, as do other people
on this list (at
least one that I'm certain of).  What experience does he
have with legal
matters?  I have quite a bit.  Most of the programmers I
know wouldn't know a
whereof from a therein <smile>.  Besides that ... I not only
know how to read
the English language but I speak of what I know and have
verified before I give
an opinion on a legal issue.  Why don't you print out the
following excerpt from
the Yahoo TOS in question (now apparently changed in some
minor details), which
he evidently never read (or didn't understand) before he
gave the opinion you
quoted him on, and see if he doesn't change his mind.  I'll
bet he DOES change
his mind once he READS the TOS in question.

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
8. CONTENT SUBMITTED TO YAHOO

By submitting Content to any Yahoo property, you
automatically grant, or warrant that the owner of
such Content has expressly granted, Yahoo the
royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive
and fully sublicensable right and license to use,
reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate,
create derivative works from, distribute, perform
and display such Content (in whole or part)
worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works
in any form, media, or technology now known or
later developed.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


> he said it is a disclaimer for yahoo to not get sued--

The above is NOT a "disclaimer" ... sorry.  It SPECIFICALLY
lays claims to any
and all works placed on their servers.

That *may* have been Yahoo's ORIGINAL intent.  But their
*intent* is something
known only to the Master of the Universe.  What counts, is
what they WROTE.

In law, the only thing that counts is what is in black and
white and signed.
What the Yahoo TOS SAYS, in black and white, is that THEY
can do ANYTHING THEY
WANT with ANYTHING you put on their server *if* you
expressly agree to it.  THAT
is what counts.

OK?

You do not have to be an attorney to figure that one out.



> for example, if someone copies something off of mike's site, mike cannot sue
> yahoo for copyright infringement---

If that were their intent ... then why doesn't their TOS say
so?  Instead, their
TOS says something VERY different.


> even though it sounds like you are getting the shaft, yahoo is trying to
> protect themselves

Unfortunately for this point of view, their TOS allows them
to do whatever they
want with any and all your works at their discretion ...
just a wee bit more
than "just trying to protect themselves".


> now, please don't flame me on any of these, i am only relaying what i was
> told the computer industry feels is happening - IT IS MY OPINION - and only
> my opinion

Debbie ... when you (or anyone else) express an opinion in a
public forum,
particularly on a legal matter that affects a lot of people,
you must be
prepared to defend it.  If you don't like that, then don't
express opinions.
There are (at last report) some 650+ people on this mailing
list ... this is a
public forum no matter how relaxed and laid back it may
seem.

For example, look at Albert Lewis' writings and see how
carefully they are
worded.  He's a good writer too. (That is an opinion I feel
confident no one
will disagree with.)  It is clear that HE knows this is a
public forum. <G>

I bite my tongue quite often when tempted to express an
opinion in a public
forum on legal issues, politically charged issues, and/or
issues with religious
import, because such expression would require me to defend
said opinion and I
decide quite frequently its just not worth the effort.  Most
people don't really
want to know anyone else's opinion in the first place and
simply get emotional
when you disagree with them even if they haven't actually
expressed their
opinion.  For example, I completely disagree with the
idiotic opinion expressed
by that American ex-patriate living in Mexico.  I have lived
in Mexico myself (a
summer) and returned many times since as well as Europe (12
years) and visited
much of North, West and Central Africa, South America and
Asia (mostly for
teaching) so I have a right to an opinion on the subject. 
Instead I chose not
to express an opinion on that subject.

THIS issue (Yahoo/Geocities) is different and I chose to
speak up (a little)
because Mike Savaad, who has given a lot to the online
stained glass community,
is in a tight spot.

Actually, if I were in Mike's shoes [HINT HINT HINT HINT
HINT], I'd shut down
the Geocities site and get a virtual server at OLM or
WEBAXXS.  For $15/month
you get 400 MB of server storage (thats actually quite a
lot) and around 5 GB
transfer per month (thats a lot of GB's btw) +  other stuff
I won't get into.
They're extremely reliable and the cheapest around.  Not to
mention that THEY
get all the non-negligible hassles of running a server. 
I've been using them
for some time now.  Further, Geocities is a TERRIBLE outfit.

OK ... way past time to go ..... regards to all
(particularly Debbie <G>)
........ Bob
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 22:21:46 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "K See" <kseeglass@netzero.net>, <glass@intrastar.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Tiffany Children
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:36:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.143636.0>
References: <<1999Jun29.144541.0>>
Precedence: bulk

It's sometimes better to keep your mouth shut and have everyone think you
the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt...

> ...and one great grandson...Harry Platt>
>
> | I think I heard somewhere Tiffany never married and didn't have any
> | children.  Grandchildren would be interesting??  It could have been
Irving
> | Tiffany's grandchildren.
> | Linda Jo Tiffany
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: Anna Tom <anna@mcm.com>
> | To: glass@intrastar.net <glass@intrastar.net>
> | Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:01 PM
> | Subject: Re: stepping stones delivered
>

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 22:43:34 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: <hotglass@list.bb.net>,
Subject: Website back online
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:37:15 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.83715.0>
Precedence: bulk

The website is back online. Check out Shiela(earrings), Nadine(three
windows), and Bud (a bunch of pictures that just came back from developing)
on the gallery pages, if you did not make it to the site earlier, before we
had to do minor link changes. ;-)

http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/

Susan, the giraffe panel is up there ;-)


Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org



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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 22:51:49 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Torches and stuff :o)
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 17:31:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.123127.0>
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I've been wanting a torch...and as one of my favorite bungi
*teachers* just suggested...why wait and put it on my Christmas list...

Does anyone have a hot head, or what ever kind of torch would be
appropriate, that they are no longer using...that you would be willing
to sell me cheap?  <- the cheap part is just...thats all I can afford!
:o)

If you have a yes for me...please email me privately...and I will be
a happy camper! :o)

Thanks in advance!

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 23:19:05 1999
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X-Path: fuse.net!afields
From: Arleen Fields <afields@fuse.net>
To: Brian Shepherd <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: nuggets
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 18:04:23 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.14423.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.215013.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I also had nuggets I couldn't throw out.  I put them in the kiln just long
enough to smooth the scratches and chips.

Brian Shepherd wrote:

> Hello
>
> I have had nuggets scratched as you said and my 'saving' nature would not
> let me throw them out.
>
> I had acculumated a few when I had an inspiration and tumbled them! Beach
> glass nuggets!
> Just a Thought!
>
> I have burnished foil onto nuggets using the jar technique but would not use
> the monkey or small child method. It only takes a few moments to do a decent
> job whilst minimising the damage.  Just use a little more sense than
> frenzy!!!  I always used a glass jar and waved it in a circle so the nuggets
> ran around the inside. Y would  acknowledge that a plastic one be more
> sensible but would use a round one!!
>
> Having said all that I usually foil one by one!
>
> > When I buy nuggets I always throw some away because they have been
> > scratched or nicked just by being bagged up together.
> >
> > Also, I liked them **WELL** burnished.  Guess I will try your method
> > with some of my black nuggets (that I dont really want anyway) and see
> > if I think it is as good as by hand.  If so, it would save me a
> > tremendous amount of time.
> >
> > Suzanne
> >
> > > Then get a small tub, like a
> > > butter tub, fill it about half full with globs/marbles/unfoiled items
> that
> > > you are foiling, and snap the lid on, and stand/sit/or give it to a kid
> that
> > > likes to make noise, and have them shake it for about 3 to 5 minutes.
> >
> > --
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 23:31:15 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Family Account" <shad@mail2.nai.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: looking for inspiration
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 22:11:44 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.151144.0>
Precedence: bulk

You might look for a book called: Art Deco Stained Glass Pattern Book : 91
Designs for Workable Projects by, you guessed it, Ed Sibbett. Or order it
from Amazon.com for $5.56. ........................... Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out:
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/bob/indexpage1.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 9:41 PM
Subject: looking for inspiration


>...again...I'm actually looking for examples of graphics arts from the
>20's and 30's...Art Deco type things.  I will be going to the library
>tomorrow, but if anyone knows of a Web site, I'd be grateful.  (Most of
>what I've found so far deals with the Art Deco architecture.)  I have
>this VERY vague idea in my head for a design that I'd like to be
>somewhat true to the period.
>Dorothy
>
>----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 23:42:43 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Rickola
From: Rickola@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com (Bungi)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Glass at the Gardens
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:15:55 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.51555.0>
Precedence: bulk

Denver's big glass event is coming up soon (end of July- early August at the 
Denver Botanical Gardens). Can anybody who has been to this event in the past 
describe it in some detail? Am looking forward to attending and seeing 
quality work.
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  1 23:48:47 1999
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Tiffany Children
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 22:57:33 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul1.155733.0>
Precedence: bulk

Do any of you remember the discussion on DALE TIFFANY?
nuf said.......
weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 02:23:40 1999
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: wisteria, weeping willows, small piece nightmares in glass
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 04:34:45 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990702043445.006c51ec@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
References: <<1999Jun30.115850.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Here is another idea.......  try copper foil overlay, decorative solder
and/or tinned wire with solder  drops on them for the "detail" on willow
trees, lupines, willows and the like.

	You don't have to do a lot of it .... design as suggested below
incorporating the overlay, etc in strategic well balanced places and the
effect can be lovely, adding texture and detail to a piece.

Barbara 

At 04:48 PM 7/1/99 -0400, Family Account wrote:
>I've just done a pattern containing lupines.  Lupines are flowers with
>innumerable small parts.  i didn't try to be anatomically correct.  I went
for
>the overall shape and impression of lupines. Particularly if your tree is
at a
>distance, get the overall shape right and use wavy up-and down lines to
give the
>impression of long leaves.  Good luck.
>
>J&RinMonroe wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The thread on patterns is of special interest as I'm attempting to turn a
>> picture I found into a Stained glass picture.  My problem is how to deal
>> with the tree in the picture-it's probably a weeping willow-all those
little
>> pointed pieces of glass are giving me nightmares-I'm sure the glass will
get
>> lost in solder.
>
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 04:00:21 1999
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X-Path: westinghouse.com!draggj
From: "Drag, Gloria J." <draggj@westinghouse.com>
To: hotglass@list.bb.net, 'Bud Britt' <computerministry@unitytustin.org>, 
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Website back online
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 05:58:18 -0400 
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.15818.0>
Precedence: bulk

Bud,
 Thanks for fixing it.. Also could not enter.. Thought it was the fire wall
here at work, next time I will ask.
Gloria
> ----------
> From: 	Bud Britt[SMTP:computerministry@unitytustin.org]
> Sent: 	Thursday, July 01, 1999 6:37 PM
> To: 	hotglass@list.bb.net
> Subject: 	Website back online
> 
> The website is back online. Check out Shiela(earrings), Nadine(three
> windows), and Bud (a bunch of pictures that just came back from
> developing)
> on the gallery pages, if you did not make it to the site earlier, before
> we
> had to do minor link changes. ;-)
> 
> http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/
> 
> Susan, the giraffe panel is up there ;-)
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> Bud Britt
> 
> computerministry@unitytustin.org
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> 
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X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura
From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: mfig@netcom.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: lead free 
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:42:40 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.124240.0>
Precedence: bulk


You know those flux brushes that stained glass suppliers sell (the acid safe 
ones)? I buy them bulk (12 for $1) at a local hardware closeout store - very 
disposable.
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 06:58:33 1999
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From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: mfig@netcom.ca
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Subject: Re: Tiffany Children
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:45:39 EDT
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Just for the sake of giving credit to the author:

"It is better to keep ones mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it and 
remove all doubt" - Samuel Clemens
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 07:11:13 1999
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead free 
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@POP>
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:07:22 +0000
Message-ID: <199907021206.IAA20380@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> you've
> probably figured out that you've got to use an uncontaminated flux
> and flux brush that's never been used on a lead solder project, and
> flush your soldering iron tip to remove as much lead from it as
> possible...

Or you have two soldering irons, one of them used only for lead-free 
solder, as well as two containers of flux, one of them used only for 
lead-free solder, and two flux brushes, one of them used only for 
lead-free solder. Seems simple enough to me. <grin> Mike Figgy and 
other suppliers would doubtless be glad to double their sales in 
those areas ... and you could rest assured that your lead-free 
projects are in fact totally free of lead without going to a great 
deal of expense. (Just don't confuse the two sets: put some green 
paint -- get it? <smile> -- on the handle of the "green" soldering 
iron, on the handle of the flux brush used for lead-free work, and on 
the container of flux used for the same work.

Oh, you might consider a sheet of Homosote that's used only for your 
lead-free projects, too, as a work surface.

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 08:08:53 1999
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X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye
From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: wosteria, weeping willows....
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:22:26 CST 6CDT
Message-ID: <199907021426.JAA14137@relay.acns.nwu.edu>
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<snip>try looking at the pic of the tree...blurring your eyes... dont focus
on the leaves, but the shading and textures...<sinp>

For some of us, it's just a matter of taking off the glasses!  : - )

Kaye
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 08:38:37 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 10:26:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.62613.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.93520.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

rrk wrote:
> 
> Hello Debbie.  This is not a flame ... but some things in
> your email bear
> correcting.  This might seem like a flame, but believe me
> this is not.  I
> reserve that for special and very rare occasions (which this
> is not), like when
> someone attacks me and I stand to lose something.
> 
> daver!one.net!kleeman@earthlink.net wrote:
> 
> > i don't know if this is correct or not,
> 
> it is not correct
> 
> > but the when i asked the computer nerd i live with about this (he is a
> > programmer)
> 
> So what?  I do computer programming too, as do other people
> on this list (at
> least one that I'm certain of).  What experience does he
> have with legal
> matters?  I have quite a bit.  Most of the programmers I
> know wouldn't know a
> whereof from a therein <smile>.  Besides that ... I not only
> know how to read
> the English language but I speak of what I know and have
> verified before I give
> an opinion on a legal issue.  Why don't you print out the
> following excerpt from
> the Yahoo TOS in question (now apparently changed in some
> minor details), which
> he evidently never read (or didn't understand) before he
> gave the opinion you
> quoted him on, and see if he doesn't change his mind.  I'll
> bet he DOES change
> his mind once he READS the TOS in question.
> 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 8. CONTENT SUBMITTED TO YAHOO
> 
> By submitting Content to any Yahoo property, you
> automatically grant, or warrant that the owner of
> such Content has expressly granted, Yahoo the
> royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive
> and fully sublicensable right and license to use,
> reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate,
> create derivative works from, distribute, perform
> and display such Content (in whole or part)
> worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works
> in any form, media, or technology now known or
> later developed.
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> > he said it is a disclaimer for yahoo to not get sued--
> 
> The above is NOT a "disclaimer" ... sorry.  It SPECIFICALLY
> lays claims to any
> and all works placed on their servers.
> 
> That *may* have been Yahoo's ORIGINAL intent.  But their
> *intent* is something
> known only to the Master of the Universe.  What counts, is
> what they WROTE.
> 
> In law, the only thing that counts is what is in black and
> white and signed.
> What the Yahoo TOS SAYS, in black and white, is that THEY
> can do ANYTHING THEY
> WANT with ANYTHING you put on their server *if* you
> expressly agree to it.  THAT
> is what counts.
> 
> OK?
> 
> You do not have to be an attorney to figure that one out.
> 
> > for example, if someone copies something off of mike's site, mike cannot sue
> > yahoo for copyright infringement---
> 
> If that were their intent ... then why doesn't their TOS say
> so?  Instead, their
> TOS says something VERY different.
> 
> > even though it sounds like you are getting the shaft, yahoo is trying to
> > protect themselves
> 
> Unfortunately for this point of view, their TOS allows them
> to do whatever they
> want with any and all your works at their discretion ...
> just a wee bit more
> than "just trying to protect themselves".
> 
> > now, please don't flame me on any of these, i am only relaying what i was
> > told the computer industry feels is happening - IT IS MY OPINION - and only
> > my opinion
> 
> Debbie ... when you (or anyone else) express an opinion in a
> public forum,
> particularly on a legal matter that affects a lot of people,
> you must be
> prepared to defend it.  If you don't like that, then don't
> express opinions.
> There are (at last report) some 650+ people on this mailing
> list ... this is a
> public forum no matter how relaxed and laid back it may
> seem.
> 
> For example, look at Albert Lewis' writings and see how
> carefully they are
> worded.  He's a good writer too. (That is an opinion I feel
> confident no one
> will disagree with.)  It is clear that HE knows this is a
> public forum. <G>
> 
> I bite my tongue quite often when tempted to express an
> opinion in a public
> forum on legal issues, politically charged issues, and/or
> issues with religious
> import, because such expression would require me to defend
> said opinion and I
> decide quite frequently its just not worth the effort.  Most
> people don't really
> want to know anyone else's opinion in the first place and
> simply get emotional
> when you disagree with them even if they haven't actually
> expressed their
> opinion.  For example, I completely disagree with the
> idiotic opinion expressed
> by that American ex-patriate living in Mexico.  I have lived
> in Mexico myself (a
> summer) and returned many times since as well as Europe (12
> years) and visited
> much of North, West and Central Africa, South America and
> Asia (mostly for
> teaching) so I have a right to an opinion on the subject.
> Instead I chose not
> to express an opinion on that subject.
> 
> THIS issue (Yahoo/Geocities) is different and I chose to
> speak up (a little)
> because Mike Savaad, who has given a lot to the online
> stained glass community,
> is in a tight spot.
> 
> Actually, if I were in Mike's shoes [HINT HINT HINT HINT
> HINT], I'd shut down
> the Geocities site and get a virtual server at OLM or
> WEBAXXS.  For $15/month
> you get 400 MB of server storage (thats actually quite a
> lot) and around 5 GB
> transfer per month (thats a lot of GB's btw) +  other stuff
> I won't get into.
> They're extremely reliable and the cheapest around.  Not to
> mention that THEY
> get all the non-negligible hassles of running a server.
> I've been using them
> for some time now.  Further, Geocities is a TERRIBLE outfit.
> 
> OK ... way past time to go ..... regards to all
> (particularly Debbie <G>)
> ........ Bob
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah but then i'd have to pay for it. and since i'm not making any money
i would'nt want to pay for it... got to the newsgroup
alt.homepages.geocities there's been quite a bit of talk about this....

now i have re-write some of my site and upload it else where.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 09:07:00 1999
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X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash
From: "ktsplash" <ktsplash@mpx.com.au>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 01:07:45 +1000
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.11745.0>
References: <<1999Jun29.9712.0>>
Organization: Kariva Splash
Precedence: bulk

May I make a request on behalf of all the "service assistants" of the world?
of which I have been one, thank god, no longer.
Please, consider mentioning something to the service assistant, before going
over their head to the boss. NO-ONE, I repeat NO-ONE is perfect in their job
ALL THE TIME!
Sure, these people are paid to be friendly and helpful. no kidding. but
really, everyone has off days.
If I were offended by the behaviour of a person on the street, I would
hardly report them to their parents before I addressed them about their
behaviour.
Think about it. what are your reasons for going to the boss? to warn them
about the bad experience you've had in their store, to tell them that you
won't be going back perhaps? presumably so that the service assistant in
question will straighten up their act?
If a service assistant has a bad attitude, do you think that getting reamed
out by the boss will suddenly "lighten up their smile?" more likely to make
them upset, angry, and perhaps depressed.  Surely the compassionate thing to
do is approach the service assistant directly, tell them that their actions
annoyed you, and made you feel unwelcome. 9 times out of 10 you'll find a
genuinely sorry service assistant. the ones who spark up, or make false
apologies, sure, go to the boss.
I find it a sad thing that customers would prefer to "dob someone in," get
them in strife, and perpetuate whatever bad energy is going on for that
someone. Why not just confront the situation as it occurs, then see if
there's a change?
I got this forwarded to me the other day, perhaps I should have just sent it
and saved my 2cents ;-)

> > A group of frogs were traveling through the woods, and two of them
> > fell into
> > a deep pit.
> >
> > All the other frogs gathered around the pit. When they saw how deep
> > the pit
> > was, they told the two frogs that they were as good as dead.
> >
> > The two frogs ignored the comments and tried to jump up out of the
> > pit with
> > all of their might. The other frogs kept telling them to stop, that
> > they
> > were as good as dead.
> >
> > Finally, one of the frogs took heed to what the other frogs were
> > saying and
> > gave up. He fell down and died. The other frog continued to jump as
> > hard as
> > he could.
> >
> > Once again, the crowd of frogs yelled at him to stop the pain and
> > just die.
> > He jumped even harder and finally made it out.
> >
> > You see this frog was deaf, unable to hear the others plea. He
> > thought they
> > were encouraging him the entire time.
> >
> > This story teaches two lessons.
> >
> > There is power of life and death in the tongue. An encouraging word
> > to
> > someone who is down can lift them up and help them make it through
> > the day.
> > A destructive word to someone who is down can be what it takes to
> > kill them.
> >
> > Be careful of what you say. Speak life to those who cross your path.
> > The
> > power of words... it is sometimes hard to understand that an
> > encouraging
> > word can go such a long way.
> >
> > So from this day forward, think before you speak.
> >
> >
Katie


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 09:33:54 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: wosteria, weeping willows....
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:13:41 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.71341.0>
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Message text written by Suzanne Gunn
>Maybe you can find that perfect art glass that can do alot of the work
for you and minimize the number of peices needed....<

Youghiogheny is perfect for this sort of thing.

Christie Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 09:38:23 1999
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'Kaye Sodt' <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: wosteria, weeping willows....
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:05:56 -0400 
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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01BEC49C.647AAD7A
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

For others it is a matter of getting ready to paint glass.
Can you hand me that bottle of wine?

Vic M.

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Kaye Sodt [mailto:kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU]
		Sent:	Friday, July 02, 1999 11:22 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: wosteria, weeping willows....

		<snip>try looking at the pic of the tree...blurring your
eyes... dont focus
		on the leaves, but the shading and textures...<sinp>

		For some of us, it's just a matter of taking off the
glasses!  : - )

		Kaye
		----
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: wosteria, weeping willows....</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For others it is a matter of getting =
ready to paint glass.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Can you hand me that bottle of =
wine?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Kaye Sodt [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU">mailto:kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.N=
WU.EDU</A>]</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Friday, July 02, 1999 11:22 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Re: wosteria, weeping =
willows....</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&lt;snip&gt;try looking at the pic of =
the tree...blurring your eyes... dont focus</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">on the leaves, but the shading and =
textures...&lt;sinp&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For some of us, it's just a matter of =
taking off the glasses!&nbsp; : - )</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Kaye</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For subscription changes, please mail =
to: glass-request@bungi.com</FONT>
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list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: =
glass@bungi.com</FONT>
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TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></FONT>
</P>
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 10:43:09 1999
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@POP>
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:35:49 +0000
Message-ID: <199907021635.MAA25516@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> Surely the compassionate thing to do is approach the
> service assistant directly, tell them that their actions annoyed
> you, and made you feel unwelcome. 9 times out of 10 you'll find a
> genuinely sorry service assistant

Agreed. The angle I take is to say, "I'm sorry. Did I say or do 
something to offend you? You seem angry with me." thereby presenting 
myself as perhaps the person in the wrong. Of course, they usually 
reply, "Oh, no! You're fine, but I'm having a bad day. Sorry if I 
seemed to have been taking it out on you."

Unless, of course, you're in any mall in America, faced with an 
18-year-old who doesn't want to be there anyway. Then she'll just 
roll her eyes and say, "Whatever." 

Aaaaaarrrragh!

Albert

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 11:08:55 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: ktsplash <ktsplash@mpx.com.au>, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 12:01:53 -0500
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I'd have happily talked to her.  I stood at her desk 10 minutes waiting
for her to acknowledge me.  I think I did all I could, except perhaps
behave as rudely to her as she did me, by interrupting her and saying 
"Excuse me, but do you *work* here?"  <-Guess that might have been sort
of comical in a smarta$$ kind of way...of course I just now thought of
that....what, 8 days later? ;o)

I just chose to leave. In a town like Taos, they may only have that
*one* chance to interact with a customer...cause most of them dont live
in Taos.

Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 11:47:03 1999
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Subject: NOT GLASS-CRAZY PEOPLE
Date: Fri Jul  2 11:01:49 1999
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okay
who put my phone on the wall of the psycho ward?
or is there a full moon?

every crazy and there brother has called the studio today!

one guy was upset because he can't find anyone that sells stained glass kits
that he could buy and cut down to fit his front door--didn't want a custom
piece -- wanted a generic piece of stained glass he could reshape from a
kit!

what a day!

debbie

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 12:49:33 1999
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From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
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>>Unless, of course, you're in any mall in America, faced with an
18-year-old who doesn't want to be there anyway. Then she'll just
roll her eyes and say, "Whatever."

Aaaaaarrrragh!

Albert<<

I do not feel that we the customer owe the sales clerk very much. When they
make themselves unavailable for service I, for one, am not going to spend my
time trying to get their attention. OTOH, the owner deserves to know my
impressions of the poor service provided to me. I trust the owner to make
the correct decisions in regard to the weight of my complaint. That the
sales clerk may have a nervous breakdown and perhaps commit suicide is not
well within my ability to control.

Let's face it, a good part of the purchase price goes toward paying the
sales force. They should earn my money.

Spent a couple of hours at City Hall yesterday. Those people know how to say
no and maybe and not offend. At least here, that is. I did not get what I
wanted yet came away respecting the people who would not make my life easy
and just do things MY way. Now I have to go to work and do things right.
............... Bob




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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 14:12:17 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: ktsplash <ktsplash@mpx.com.au>
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Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 13:03:11 -0700
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ktsplash wrote:
> 
> May I make a request on behalf of all the "service assistants" of the world?
> of which I have been one, thank god, no longer.
> Please, consider mentioning something to the service assistant, before going
> over their head to the boss. NO-ONE, I repeat NO-ONE is perfect in their job
> ALL THE TIME!
> Sure, these people are paid to be friendly and helpful. no kidding. but
> really, everyone has off days.
> If I were offended by the behaviour of a person on the street, I would
> hardly report them to their parents before I addressed them about their
> behaviour.
> Think about it. what are your reasons for going to the boss? to warn them
> about the bad experience you've had in their store, to tell them that you
> won't be going back perhaps? presumably so that the service assistant in
> question will straighten up their act?
> If a service assistant has a bad attitude, do you think that getting reamed
> out by the boss will suddenly "lighten up their smile?" more likely to make
> them upset, angry, and perhaps depressed.  Surely the compassionate thing to
> do is approach the service assistant directly, tell them that their actions
> annoyed you, and made you feel unwelcome. 9 times out of 10 you'll find a
> genuinely sorry service assistant. the ones who spark up, or make false
> apologies, sure, go to the boss.
> I find it a sad thing that customers would prefer to "dob someone in," get
> them in strife, and perpetuate whatever bad energy is going on for that
> someone. Why not just confront the situation as it occurs, then see if
> there's a change?
> I got this forwarded to me the other day, perhaps I should have just sent it
> and saved my 2cents ;-)
> 



oh Katie....you are SOOOO right...having done my share of "public
service" work...you never know WHAT may have happened to put that person
in a snit..they are not robots you know. They may just have had the
customer from hell....they themselves may have had horrible things
happen, but hey, gotta have a smile pasted on your face or some
perfection seeker will turn you in for it.  If someone cannot deal with
this type of having a smile on the face constantly no matter
what...doesnt mean they are a bad person...just that they are not cut
out for public service. I  have worked as a waitress and with the public
in various ways and I hate it becasue no matter what kind of attitude
comes in the door you have to be up and on stage at all times and I just
cant do it. Some people can...I am not one of them..despite the menial
nature of hte work...it DOES take a special kind of person to do this
sort of thing....unfortunately in resort towns like Taos (and Vail,
where I used to live) this is about the ONLY type of work available is
public service of various kinds....lots of kids flocking in and getting
jobs that "seem" like you dont need any special skills or knowledge for
so they can spend a season or so skiing or whatever it is you do in
these places. It is not surprising that stuff like that happens. I was
lucky enough to find a job there as a ski technician so I got to spend
my time doing "work" and not having my "work" be chatting up people I
didnt really care to be talking with...some people thrive on talking to
everyone and anyone but I guess I am more selective and just find myself
sapped by having to be chatty Cathy all day long. Probably the girl in
this gallery likes art, may be an art student herself...but just isnt
that into the public all day long but its all the job she can get and no
doubt her boss thought about her art interests rather than her people
skills when hiring her. doesnt make it right, thats just the way it is
in resort towns.  Assuming she wasnt just having an off day.....

Liz
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 14:43:30 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
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Suzanne Gunn wrote:
> 
> I'd have happily talked to her.  I stood at her desk 10 minutes waiting
> for her to acknowledge me.  I think I did all I could, except perhaps
> behave as rudely to her as she did me, by interrupting her and saying
> "Excuse me, but do you *work* here?"  <-Guess that might have been sort
> of comical in a smarta$$ kind of way...of course I just now thought of
> that....what, 8 days later? ;o)
> 
> I just chose to leave. In a town like Taos, they may only have that
> *one* chance to interact with a customer...cause most of them dont live
> in Taos.
> 
> Suzanne
> --
> 


perhaps she was waiting for you to say something Suzanne???? Maybe SHE
thought "you" were being rude for just standing there looking at her and
waiting.....granted the responsibility is "more" on her as the
employee....but hey, I would have asked her if she worked there and
could help me, I'd have grabbed the bull by the horns instead of
passively sitting there waiting for her to make the first move. Hey,
when I went to Umass Boston (Boston being an epicenter for innattentive
store clerks etc) I stopped by the office to get an application and
there was a receptionist,paid for no doubt, by my tax dollars, polishing
her nails, talking on the phone and browsing an Avon catalog...it was
NOT her lunch hour...not at nine in the morning.....and had I sat and
looked at her and waited...I'd still be there six years later, watching
her ignore me....I told her what I wanted and I got it (admittedly the
nail polisher was ticked to be interuppted at her task...but hey, she
was on the clock...KWIM?.)sometimes you just have to take the
initiative...and it is a sad fact we have these people in the world...I
am interested in getting what I want...not in reforming every public
service employee who would really rather be reading, polishing nails,
talking on the phone or whatever else instead of doing what she has been
paid to do. Of which there are many and always will be many in this
world. 

Liz
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 14:58:39 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glshorse@ior.com, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 15:40:13 -0500
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She was waiting for me to interrupt her phone call?  My mother taught me
better manners.

Suzanne

> perhaps she was waiting for you to say something Suzanne???? Maybe SHE
> thought "you" were being rude for just standing there looking at her and
> waiting.....granted the responsibility is "more" on her as the
> employee....but hey, I would have asked her if she worked there and
> could help me, I'd have grabbed the bull by the horns instead of
> passively sitting there waiting for her to make the first move.

-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 15:10:49 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
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Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 13:29:15 -0700
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Suzanne Gunn wrote:
> 
> She was waiting for me to interrupt her phone call?  My mother taught me
> better manners.
> 
> Suzanne
> 
  do you know that it was a personal phone call? Or perhaps it was a
very important business call. Granted when one is on an important
business call, there are nonverbal ways of acknowledging someones
presence, but perhaps if she was young she did not realize this? If so
it would be a shame for her boss to give her a dressing down for not
juggling the business on the phone with the business in the store
appropriately.  if the call was personal...well....we all know what a
bad idea it is to spend long hours on personal business at
work...whatever your job...you are being paid to WORK...not to manage
your personal life....but unless you are "sure" that this was a personal
and not a business call...you could be very very wrong about her
rudeness. She may just be inexperienced. 

Liz
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 15:16:07 1999
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From: "Shari Higbee" <shigbee@stmassociates.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:01:06 -0600
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>
>I do not feel that we the customer owe the sales clerk very much. When they
>make themselves unavailable for service I, for one, am not going to spend
my
>time trying to get their attention. >


I agree. Nothing frustrates me more than have to beg someone to *let* me
spend my hard-earned money in their establishment...

Shari


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 15:33:31 1999
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From: "Rebecca  Wickline" <r.wickline@att.net>
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    Going away for a while.  Checking out stuff in La. and Tex.  Take me off
the list until I get back.  Thanks, Becky
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 15:43:51 1999
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I'll be to busy to play with the computer for a few weeks....M


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 15:49:38 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 16:58:53 -0500
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*If* we are talking about the *original* situation of my being ignored
in a glass gallery......

This gal wasnt having a bad day or in a "snit".  She called a man, and
was doing her best to get a date.  He wasnt taking the bait...and she
was trying really hard to keep a conversation going.  Pretty sad.
It was more than obvious it wasnt business...and the only purpose was to
flirt with someone that wasnt into being flirted with.  Her conversation
was very ackward..and seems like it would have been a relief for her to
get off the phone, my guess is she isnt good at taking hints.

Regardless of what trip she was on....she was paid to be there for one
reason.  I'd hardly consider myself as a perfection seeker in people...
sheesh...you should meet my ex husband! ;o)

She may be inexperienced...but she wasnt some teenager...my guess is she
was early 30's.

Suzanne

> ...you never know WHAT may have happened to put that person
> in a snit..they are not robots you know. They may just have had the
> customer from hell....they themselves may have had horrible things
> happen, but hey, gotta have a smile pasted on your face or some
> perfection seeker will turn you in for it. 
>  do you know that it was a personal phone call? Or perhaps it was a
> very important business call. Granted when one is on an important
> business call, there are nonverbal ways of acknowledging someones
> presence, but perhaps if she was young she did not realize this? If so
> it would be a shame for her boss to give her a dressing down for not
> juggling the business on the phone with the business in the store
> appropriately.  if the call was personal...well....we all know what a
> bad idea it is to spend long hours on personal business at
> work...whatever your job...you are being paid to WORK...not to manage
> your personal life....but unless you are "sure" that this was a personal
> and not a business call...you could be very very wrong about her
> rudeness. She may just be inexperienced. 
> 
> Liz
> 

-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 16:06:17 1999
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To: "Bungi" <Glass@Bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:58:21 -0700
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whatEVER!

LOL.

----- Original Message -----
From: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop


> > Surely the compassionate thing to do is approach the
> > service assistant directly, tell them that their actions annoyed
> > you, and made you feel unwelcome. 9 times out of 10 you'll find a
> > genuinely sorry service assistant
>
> Agreed. The angle I take is to say, "I'm sorry. Did I say or do
> something to offend you? You seem angry with me." thereby presenting
> myself as perhaps the person in the wrong. Of course, they usually
> reply, "Oh, no! You're fine, but I'm having a bad day. Sorry if I
> seemed to have been taking it out on you."
>
> Unless, of course, you're in any mall in America, faced with an
> 18-year-old who doesn't want to be there anyway. Then she'll just
> roll her eyes and say, "Whatever."
>
> Aaaaaarrrragh!
>
> Albert
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 16:22:42 1999
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To: "Bungi" <Glass@Bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:24:12 -0700
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I love how this has become all about YOU, Suzanne.
I'm going to overstate this for dramatic purposes:
YOU the evil uninvited ugh-shopper that doesn't take into account the poor
mis-understood cinderella shop girl!  It's all YOUR fault.  And don't you
DARE turn her in to the EVIL SHOP OWNER!!!! OWNER for god's sake.. the rich
nasty slavedriving owner who will throw her into the burning cinders of
unemployment for ONE BAD DAY!

GIVE ME A BREAK!

Report her nasty self to the proper authorities!  Throw her in jail.  Bring
back capitol punishment.

----- Original Message -----
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: ktsplash <ktsplash@mpx.com.au>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop


> I'd have happily talked to her.  I stood at her desk 10 minutes waiting
> for her to acknowledge me.  I think I did all I could, except perhaps
> behave as rudely to her as she did me, by interrupting her and saying
> "Excuse me, but do you *work* here?"  <-Guess that might have been sort
> of comical in a smarta$$ kind of way...of course I just now thought of
> that....what, 8 days later? ;o)
>
> I just chose to leave. In a town like Taos, they may only have that
> *one* chance to interact with a customer...cause most of them dont live
> in Taos.
>
> Suzanne
> --
> Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
>
>                                        ----Harvey MacKay
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 16:45:35 1999
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From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Sending a photo
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:33:58 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.143358.0>
Precedence: bulk

OK.. I'm going to go "big time" and send in pics of my work. All I ask is
that you all remember that I've only done glass for ONE month... one paltry,
little, eeny, weeny, teeny month!! I'm only sending them in because I'm SURE
I'm a prodigy (can one be a prodigy in their 40's?), and that each and every
one is perfect in every way.
Shall I now point out all the obvious defects? Naaaahhhhhhhhh.... I'll just
send them in, hoping each subsequent one is an improvement and enjoy the
whole process!
Be kind now!! :-))

Mary
Jax. Fl.
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
me to wait.
 Thanks...


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 17:16:23 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: lead free 
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:29:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.152944.0>
References: <<199907021206.IAA20380@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Your "glad to double their sales" comment sort of hurt me, especially when I
tend to discourage unneeded sales (i.e. my staff are told to try not to sell
a customer a new cutter head unless we can check out their old one first (as
quite often the cutter is fine, the customer's approach or technique might
be the cause. This affords us an opportunity to teach that person something
that might help him/her/it in the long run)...... especially when you
consider the solution you offer (two soldering irons) is a much more
expensive solution to the one I suggested...

Back to the 'doubling sales' comment again (sorry I get easily distracted);
as a matter of fact you don't even need to buy two bottles of flux- just
next time you buy a new bottle pour off half of it for any lead free
project... by the way an extra flux brush makes me about 8.5 cents (Canadian
too, eh?!)...

I salute you in your point wrt work surface- something I forgot- both of us
also forgot the infamous 'grinder sponge'...

Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

----- Original Message -----
From: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: July 2, 1999 4:07 AM
Subject: Re: lead free


>
> > you've
> > probably figured out that you've got to use an uncontaminated flux
> > and flux brush that's never been used on a lead solder project, and
> > flush your soldering iron tip to remove as much lead from it as
> > possible...
>
> Or you have two soldering irons, one of them used only for lead-free
> solder, as well as two containers of flux, one of them used only for
> lead-free solder, and two flux brushes, one of them used only for
> lead-free solder. Seems simple enough to me. <grin> Mike Figgy and
> other suppliers would doubtless be glad to double their sales in
> those areas ... and you could rest assured that your lead-free
> projects are in fact totally free of lead without going to a great
> deal of expense. (Just don't confuse the two sets: put some green
> paint -- get it? <smile> -- on the handle of the "green" soldering
> iron, on the handle of the flux brush used for lead-free work, and on
> the container of flux used for the same work.
>
> Oh, you might consider a sheet of Homosote that's used only for your
> lead-free projects, too, as a work surface.
>
> Albert
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 17:27:38 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: <HiimLaura@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: lead free 
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:33:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.15339.0>
References: <<98322755.24ae0dc0@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

...that hurt... flux brushes are one of the few items a legitimate retailer
can sell and make a decent profit on...

Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

----- Original Message -----
From: <HiimLaura@aol.com>
To: <mfig@netcom.ca>
Cc: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: July 2, 1999 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: lead free


>
> You know those flux brushes that stained glass suppliers sell (the acid
safe
> ones)? I buy them bulk (12 for $1) at a local hardware closeout store -
very
> disposable.
>

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 19:22:54 1999
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Flux brushes big profit maker for glass retailers   Wow!!!
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:04:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.17436.0>
Precedence: bulk

If a retailers (glass of course) profit hinges on selling flux brushes, oh
dear!!!  I get mine in a box of, must be 200 hundred or so for very little
money, which suits me fine.  Been done over by glass retailers on little
stuff for way too many years.
Linda Jo



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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 20:23:38 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Bio
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 22:38:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.183835.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi... you asked me to send a short bio, so here it is.
I am 48, married with two sons, 18 and 15 years of age.
I sold my second hair salon last summer, and am happily working for someone
else, loving the art of doing hair without the rigor of the business
dealings. I have done hair for 26 years, and still find it exciting and very
creative.
I have done pottery, furniture painting and various faux design work. I have
found that I am happiest when doing any sort of "tactile" art, rather than
2D canvas painting. I like to "make" the art, rather than depict it.
Pottery and stained glass were always the two art forms I wanted to try. I
loved pottery, but when we moved, I lost my large garage, thus sold my kiln,
wheel and equipment. Now that I am learning about fusion and bead making, I
wish I had just traded my ceramic kiln for a front loader so that I can
experiment with different glasses. I'm sure that will be my next purchase.
I often remark that of all the gifts God could have given me, it was
incredible of Him to gift me with artistic ability. The joy art gives me is
second only to my family! Just think.. He COULD have made me good with
numbers!! Arggghhhhhhhhhhhhh... I think I would just die!!
I love this list.. thanks to all you who have helped me with many questions.
Mary Barry
Jax. Fl.
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
me to wait.
 Thanks... Mary


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 20:56:18 1999
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From: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 17:07:24 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.10724.0>
References: <<1999Jul2.115853.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne Gunn wrote:

> *If* we are talking about the *original* situation of my being ignored
> in a glass gallery......
>
> This gal wasnt having a bad day or in a "snit".  She called a man, and
> was doing her best to get a date.  He wasnt taking the bait...and she
> was trying really hard to keep a conversation going.  Pretty sad.
> It was more than obvious it wasnt business...and the only purpose was to
> flirt with someone that wasnt into being flirted with.  Her conversation
> was very ackward..and seems like it would have been a relief for her to
> get off the phone, my guess is she isnt good at taking hints.
>
> Regardless of what trip she was on....she was paid to be there for one
> reason.  I'd hardly consider myself as a perfection seeker in people...
> sheesh...you should meet my ex husband! ;o)
>
> She may be inexperienced...but she wasnt some teenager...my guess is she
> was early 30's.

This is nothing.  In France this would be GOOD "service".  If this upsets you,
just be glad you live in the USA. <G>

The origin of the word 'client' reveals all.  Back at the dawn of the European
romance languages in Europe, the King had clients, those who served the King
were called 'clients'.  The usage of the word changed a bit when merchants got
into the picture during the middle ages and merchants had clients ... though
the meaning was little removed.  In North America we changed, indeed reversed,
the use of the word, especially in the last 100 years, the 20th century that
is ... until 'client' is now used interchangeably with 'customer'.  Most of
the Mediterranean countries (and their descendants here in this country) still
use the word in its original sense.  They (the merchants) are the Kings, and
you (the customer) are the clients.  They're doing YOU a service by offering
you their services/merchandise.

Like I said, be glad you live in the USA.  <G>

Hope you all have a nice weekend on America's 223rd birthday!

Regards to all ..... Bob




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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 21:28:53 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: lead free 
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:34:23 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.133423.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>Back to the 'doubling sales' comment again (sorry I get easily
distracted);
as a matter of fact you don't even need to buy two bottles of flux- just
next time you buy a new bottle pour off half of it for any lead free
project... by the way an extra flux brush makes me about 8.5 cents (Canadian
too, eh?!)...<<

You overloaded here. Most everyone knows that just pouring off some flux
leads to unlabled containers. Let's play it safe here and not set up our
customers to poison off their little children. Far better to be safe than
sorry.

There is nothing wrong with having an extra bottle of flux available. It
keeps a long time and is considered a consumable. Far better to buy a six
pack of toilet paper than a single roll.  ................. Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out:
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/bob/indexpage1.htm


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 21:58:20 1999
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From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: lead free 
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:41:13 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.134113.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>I salute you in your point wrt work surface- something I forgot- both of
us
also forgot the infamous 'grinder sponge'...<<

Huh! Did I miss something or have you mistakenly refered to a sponge for
cleaning the soldering iron as a 'grinder sponge'? ........................
Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out:
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/bob/indexpage1.htm

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 22:10:59 1999
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From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker for glass retailers   Wow!!!
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:57:48 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.135748.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>If a retailers (glass of course) profit hinges on selling flux brushes, oh
dear!!!  I get mine in a box of, must be 200 hundred or so for very little
money, which suits me fine.  Been done over by glass retailers on little
stuff for way too many years.
Linda Jo<<

A gross (144) of the common metal handled flux brushes costs me $7.00. That
works out to under five cents each. My all time high retail price is ten
cents each or three for twenty-five cents. Have even been known to give them
away. Sorry, walk in sales only. ................ Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out:
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/bob/indexpage1.htm

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 22:31:09 1999
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X-Path: webtv.net!S-Perchelli
From: S-Perchelli@webtv.net (Susan Perchelli)
To: andor@ilnk.com (Linda Jo Letscher)
Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-28174-7317
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker for glass retailers   Wow!!!
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:16:17 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.141617.0>
References: <<andor@ilnk.com>>
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--WebTV-Mail-28174-7317
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit

Linda Jo stated:

>Been done over by glass retailers on little stuff >for way too many
years.
---------------------
Well.....FYI...I respect my retailer. He not only helps me with all my
questions but also is there to explain everything. Is he making a profit
on his supplies?...I would hope so. You know...there's always somebody
who can sell you something cheaper than the next guy. And...there always
somebody who'll be looking to get something cheaper someplace else.
Everyone who complains and whines that they think the local stained
glass retailer is out there gouging the heck out of them and taking evey
poor little nickle and dime from them, apparently has never worked in,
or owned a retail business. I suppose you go to the market and try and
get the manager to sell you a loaf of bread cheaper because you just
know he's trying to gouge you. Think about the price of Levis the next
time. How many middlemen did they go through before they got to the JC
Penny store? Yet you'll pay the $30 dollars. And you'll go out and buy
stuff made in China and still complain that the mom and pop down on the
corner are trying to rip you off. Get a grip here....go out and open
your own retail shop and discover what profit margins really are. Just
how much should a retailer charge? I think no matter what the price
was...you'd still complain.

Sue

Who spends her money locally.


--WebTV-Mail-28174-7317
Content-Description: signature
Content-Disposition: Inline
Content-Type: Text/HTML; Charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit

<html><i>Frederico suggested I keep my hands where he could see them...I
didn't listen. Now, me and Lefty are sharing the same prosthetic
device.</i></html>


--WebTV-Mail-28174-7317--
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 22:45:53 1999
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop and other aggravating customer service
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 21:02:28 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul6.14228.0>
References: <<1999Jul2.10724.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

rrk wrote:
> 
> Suzanne Gunn wrote:
> 
> > *If* we are talking about the *original* situation of my being ignored
> > in a glass gallery......
> >
> > This gal wasnt having a bad day or in a "snit".  She called a man, and
> > was doing her best to get a date.  He wasnt taking the bait...and she
> > was trying really hard to keep a conversation going.  Pretty sad.
> > It was more than obvious it wasnt business...and the only purpose was to
> > flirt with someone that wasnt into being flirted with.  Her conversation
> > was very ackward..and seems like it would have been a relief for her to
> > get off the phone, my guess is she isnt good at taking hints.
> >
> > Regardless of what trip she was on....she was paid to be there for one
> > reason.  I'd hardly consider myself as a perfection seeker in people...
> > sheesh...you should meet my ex husband! ;o)
> >
> > She may be inexperienced...but she wasnt some teenager...my guess is she
> > was early 30's.
> 
> This is nothing.  In France this would be GOOD "service".  If this upsets you,
> just be glad you live in the USA. <G>
> 
> The origin of the word 'client' reveals all.  Back at the dawn of the European
> romance languages in Europe, the King had clients, those who served the King
> were called 'clients'.  The usage of the word changed a bit when merchants got
> into the picture during the middle ages and merchants had clients ... though
> the meaning was little removed.  In North America we changed, indeed reversed,
> the use of the word, especially in the last 100 years, the 20th century that
> is ... until 'client' is now used interchangeably with 'customer'.  Most of
> the Mediterranean countries (and their descendants here in this country) still
> use the word in its original sense.  They (the merchants) are the Kings, and
> you (the customer) are the clients.  They're doing YOU a service by offering
> you their services/merchandise.
> 
> Like I said, be glad you live in the USA.  <G>
> 
> Hope you all have a nice weekend on America's 223rd birthday!
> 
> Regards to all ..... Bob
> 
> 

I have traveled all over and lived (honestly) in all four corners of the
USof A and grew up right in the middle...its real interesting to
"compare" the regional differences in both customer service and one on
one interactions. My mother is from the UK and my grandmother
interestingly enough HATED the overly familiar attitude that you got in
the part of the US I grew up in when she would come to visit...she HATED
clerks saying "have a nice day" when you know perfectly well they dont
care if you have a nice day or a horrible one (unless of course a nice
day means you might spend more money in their shop)  I guess I dont know
which is worse...obnoxious, hovering and overly solicitious shop
employees or those who pretend you do not exist....then there is the
Boston welcome of "whaddya want"???said like the person really isnt
overly happy you set foot onto their premises and disturbed their
day......
my current pet peeve is a number of local businesses who have taken to
saying "its a wonderful day at _______" I always feel like saying, yah,
my favorite aunt just died, I found out I have a terminal illness and my
dog got run over, yeah, wonderful day, RIGHT.......it irritates me NO
END...when a simple "you've reached ______, how can we direct your
call?" would be much much more appropriate.  While no one likes
rudeness, the other extreme is just as aggravating IMHO.


Liz
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 23:04:22 1999
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: retailers
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 00:41:41 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.204141.0>
Precedence: bulk

Susan Wrote:
Well.....FYI...I respect my retailer. He not only helps me with all my
questions but also is there to explain everything. Is he making a profit
on his supplies?...I would hope so. You know...there's always somebody
who can sell you something cheaper than the next guy. And...there always
somebody who'll be looking to get something cheaper someplace else.
Everyone who complains and whines that they think the local stained
glass retailer is out there gouging the heck out of them and taking evey
poor little nickle and dime from them, apparently has never worked in,
or owned a retail business. I suppose you go to the market and try and
get the manager to sell you a loaf of bread cheaper because you just
know he's trying to gouge you. Think about the price of Levis the next
time. How many middlemen did they go through before they got to the JC
Penny store? Yet you'll pay the $30 dollars. And you'll go out and buy
stuff made in China and still complain that the mom and pop down on the
corner are trying to rip you off. Get a grip here....go out and open
your own retail shop and discover what profit margins really are. Just
how much should a retailer charge? I think no matter what the price
was...you'd still complain.
Sue

Susan,
I remember paying over $10.00 for a square foot over 10 years ago for glue
chip from a local retailer that is now out of business.  Then I went to a
large retailer/mail order company in Pa and bought a full sheet when I was
there for $5.00 for a sheet.  So who was hosing who?  I don't think it a
crime to look for the best possible price for supplies, just seems to be
common sense.
Linda Jo


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  2 23:34:09 1999
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker for glass retailers   Wow!!!
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 22:32:57 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.153257.0>
Precedence: bulk

Add $.25 to the price of the flux..........give away the brush...........Be
a sport!
People will spend money to get something for free.
If budget and profit margin is tight enough to worry about a
brush.......PERHAPS>>>>>>>

enjoy, H
weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 00:02:54 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: "AA_Instar Glass" <glass@intrastar.net>,
Subject: Wanna see a pic of some detail,,,
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 22:49:12 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.154912.0>
Precedence: bulk

http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~itashiro/tech-data/showoff.jpg

them little seeds are grains of rice.

Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/index.htm



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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 00:36:12 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: "AA_Instar Glass" <glass@intrastar.net>,
Subject: NG Font question
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 23:19:45 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.161945.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello All Font guru's, Font Addicts, You know who you are,

www.intrastar.net\~bud\gallery.htm

Could anyone tell me the font that I used on the buttons?

It seems that I made some other graphics, and forgot to set my font back,
and now have forgot which one it was.

Thank you in advance, and yes, there are getting to be a bunch of them, and
I might have to go to text links, or multiple pages for member links to
their gallery's (if I stay with graphic buttons).


Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/index.htm



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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 04:52:48 1999
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From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Retail business in general
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 07:16:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.3162.0>
Precedence: bulk

I'm tossing my $.02 worth into the discussion. Having owned 2 hair salons, I
learned something very interesting from a national focus group, which I
repeated using random clients' opinions in my own salon. I did this because
I doubted its accuracy.

These are the top 4 reasons clients return to a salon.
1. They are greeted at the front desk by name.
2. Their stylist has a very good knowledge of hair products and recommends
the correct ones.
3. There is harmony among stylists, and they felt they could change stylists
without hurt feelings.
4. A good haircut.
I have to also add that our prices were at the top end locally. As
particular as women are about their hair, THATcame in 4th, and the top two
reasons were simply good service.
I believe if I went to Howard's shop, for example, and he charged $.50 for
flux brushes, BUT he always remembered me, asked me about work we had
discussed before, and showed a true interest in me, I couldn't care less
about the price. Having said that, I don't mean to imply that I would ignore
it if his pricing was way above the average, but I guarantee you I would go
out of my way to use his store as much as possible, due to his good service.
Lastly, as a general rule in retail, the normal markup is 100%. If a bottle
of shampoo cost me 4.50, I sold it for 9.00. On certain items that cost me
inordinate shipping, "green" fees, etc, I added a bit to that amount.
To be left waiting at a counter while the employee was chatting on the
phone, in my opinion, is a major no-no.
OK.. back to that darn soldering iron. I WILL get it downpat one of these
days.
Happy 4th...
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
me to wait.
 Thanks... Mary


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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 05:06:08 1999
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From: "EastGateXX@msn.com" <EastGateXX@email.msn.com>
To: "Bungi" <Glass@Bungi.com>,
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker for glass retailers   Wow!!!
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 03:57:00 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.20570.0>
References: <<1999Jul2.141617.0>>
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Precedence: bulk


----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Perchelli
To: Linda Jo Letscher
Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker for glass retailers Wow!!!


Linda Jo stated:

>Been done over by glass retailers on little stuff >for way too many
years.
---------------------

>>Well.....FYI...I respect my retailer. He not only helps me with all my
questions but also is there to explain everything. Is he making a profit
on his supplies?...I would hope so. You know...there's always somebody
who can sell you something cheaper than the next guy. And...there always
somebody who'll be looking to get something cheaper someplace else.
Everyone who complains and whines that they think the local stained
glass retailer is out there gouging the heck out of them and taking evey
poor little nickle and dime from them, apparently has never worked in,
or owned a retail business. I suppose you go to the market and try and
get the manager to sell you a loaf of bread cheaper because you just
know he's trying to gouge you. Think about the price of Levis the next
time. How many middlemen did they go through before they got to the JC
Penny store? Yet you'll pay the $30 dollars. And you'll go out and buy
stuff made in China and still complain that the mom and pop down on the
corner are trying to rip you off. Get a grip here....go out and open
your own retail shop and discover what profit margins really are. Just
how much should a retailer charge? I think no matter what the price
was...you'd still complain.

Sue

Who spends her money locally. >>

--------------------------------------

Ditto!  Well said Sue...

I can't say it better than Sue did.  I can just "second that emotion".

Further,  There isn't a time, not ONE MINUTE, when  I go into my local
supplier that I don't get hundreds of dollars worth of
advice/counsel/encouragement/training/education/and fun.

Everytime - EVERY time I go into the shop to buy 1 flux bottle/brush
whatever I bring ALL my questions/problems re: the current SG project I'm
doing.  And, I might be fortunate, because Craig at Lighthouse - in fact his
entire staff are ALWAYS willing to stop their own projects/phone calls
(remember "bad service in Taos" thread) to take all the time I need.
((Maybe Venice, CA isn't as trendy/aloof as TAOS >bg>).

I'm all for saving money, and don't begrudge anyone else making wise choices
(or not wise) about their spending.  In my experience - support your local
retailer is a WISE decision.  I can't say it better than sue did, I can just
"second that emotion".





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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 07:01:05 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-CRAZY PEOPLE
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:21:09 EDT
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Also sprach debbie:

>okay
>who put my phone on the wall of the psycho ward?
>or is there a full moon?
>
>every crazy and there brother has called the studio today!

Lemme see........ the full moon was 3 or 4 days ago, I think; maybe someone 
is having a delayed reaction?

>one guy was upset because he can't find anyone that sells stained glass
>kits that he could buy and cut down to fit his front door--didn't want a 
>custom piece -- wanted a generic piece of stained glass he could reshape
>from a kit!

What the hey - if he thinks he can cut the thing down to fit, he might as 
well just buy some glass and a great big ol' bevel cluster and do it from 
scratch! (Come to think of it, a bevel cluster is a kit of sorts, with lots 
of precut pieces..... it's just a freakin' expensive one!) And of course a 
few lessons first would be in order - do you teach?

In any event, you have my sympathies. I know from experience that some 
customers are just looking for something to be PO'ed at.


Sparks
	*very* glad to be out of Customer Service Purgatory
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 07:30:08 1999
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Retail business in general
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 08:45:02 -0400
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References: <<1999Jul3.3162.0>>
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	I agree with Mary..... and to support that the customer will positively
respond to hearing his name.....  I manage a dining unit here at Cornell
and, as many of you probably remember..... taking food out of the dining
hall is a regular happenstance that few students associate with stealing.  
	I learned early on that my best defense was to learn my customers names
and use them as often as possible.  And I constantly remind my staff to do
the same.  While this is not an easy task... I truly believe that my
customers appreciate the efforts and reward us with their respect...  
	While I enjoy a "captive audience" as a customer base.... good service is
still my number one consideration.  Another benefit is that my staff
responds better to the customer when they learn to acknowledge the customer
as an individual... rather than another face in a sea of faces.
	This is also a good defense when one of my staff does have an "off"
day.......my customers are more forgiving.   Most bad service exists
because it is allowed to exist.... that's the manager/owners fault.  If the
customer does not complain to the person that has the best opportunity to
correct the problem, the problem will persist...   correcting a staff
person is NOT "dressing them down.." but rather assisting them to be more
successful in their job.  Everybody wins.......

You cannot beat good service and it must be a No. 1 priority in any business.

Thanks for listening,
Barbara
	



At 07:16 AM 7/3/99 -0400, Mary wrote:
>I'm tossing my $.02 worth into the discussion. Having owned 2 hair salons, I
>learned something very interesting from a national focus group, which I
>repeated using random clients' opinions in my own salon. I did this because
>I doubted its accuracy.
>
>These are the top 4 reasons clients return to a salon.
>1. They are greeted at the front desk by name.
>2. Their stylist has a very good knowledge of hair products and recommends
>the correct ones.
>3. There is harmony among stylists, and they felt they could change stylists
>without hurt feelings.
>4. A good haircut.
>I have to also add that our prices were at the top end locally. As
>particular as women are about their hair, THATcame in 4th, and the top two
>reasons were simply good service.
>I believe if I went to Howard's shop, for example, and he charged $.50 for
>flux brushes, BUT he always remembered me, asked me about work we had
>discussed before, and showed a true interest in me, I couldn't care less
>about the price. Having said that, I don't mean to imply that I would ignore
>it if his pricing was way above the average, but I guarantee you I would go
>out of my way to use his store as much as possible, due to his good service.
>Lastly, as a general rule in retail, the normal markup is 100%. If a bottle
>of shampoo cost me 4.50, I sold it for 9.00. On certain items that cost me
>inordinate shipping, "green" fees, etc, I added a bit to that amount.
>To be left waiting at a counter while the employee was chatting on the
>phone, in my opinion, is a major no-no.
>OK.. back to that darn soldering iron. I WILL get it downpat one of these
>days.
>Happy 4th...
>I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
>me to wait.
> Thanks... Mary
>
>
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 07:42:40 1999
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X-Path: mindspring.com!iluvscotties
From: Scottie Lover <iluvscotties@mindspring.com>
To: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Retail business in general
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 09:34:18 -0400
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At 07:16 AM 7/3/99 , Mary wrote:
>These are the top 4 reasons clients return to a salon.
>1. They are greeted at the front desk by name.
>2. Their stylist has a very good knowledge of hair products and recommends
>the correct ones.
>3. There is harmony among stylists, and they felt they could change stylists
>without hurt feelings.
>4. A good haircut.

I fully agree about the service.  When I worked in Greenwich Village, there
was an outstanding mystery bookstore nearby (Foul Play).  The manager was
unbelievable ... He was an avid reader, _AND_ paid careful attention to his
customers' opinions.  This enabled him to provide phenomenal feedback about
different books, and to help make choices for books being given as gifts.
(Several times, he'd see me picking up something, and would call over, "No!
 That's much too violent for you; you wouldn't care for that one" --
because he knew that I hated violence.)  Although I spent a fortune there,
I also saved a fortune, since his help prevented me from wasting my money
on books I wouldn't have enjoyed.  Even with Amazon's discounts, I would
very happily continue shopping at Foul Play if it were still in my area.

Conversely, when my office moved back to Rockefeller Center, I was too far
from the Village to
continue shopping at Foul Play, so tried The Mysterious Bookshop (which was
right next door to my favorite restaurant, Topaz).  As I stood there
balancing about thirty paperbacks, I was completely ignored.  When someone
finally deigned to wait on me, he was exceedingly rude.
I gave that shop one more try (same experience), and never returned --
despite the fact that I still loved mysteries, worked in the vicinity, and
was right next door eating on a regular basis.

For folks like me, service and quality are of prime importance -- so, when
you're talking about
identical items, service is first and foremost.  Price is obviously an
issue -- but many of us refuse to endure shoddy service just to get a
bargain, and many of us feel that we need extra help/
guidance, and that additional cost is well worthwhile.


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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 07:54:30 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker for glass retailers   Wow!!!
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 09:33:58 EDT
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In a message dated 7/3/99 1:32:07 AM, S-Perchelli@webtv.net writes:

>Well.....FYI...I respect my retailer. He not only helps me with all my
>questions but also is there to explain everything. Is he making a profit
>on his supplies?...I would hope so.

Same goes for the main SG retailer in my area, who carries anything and 
everything (or can order it in pretty quickly if she doesn't have it on 
hand). More expensive than mail order? Sure. But every time I walk in there I 
learn a new trick to make the job easier. And she's a terrific person to deal 
with. Occasionally I've even been able to go pick something up there when 
she's officially "closed" but is in the shop doing paperwork or whatever. So 
I don't fret over the extra few bucks (or the half-hour drive to get there) 
at all - the truly great service she gives is well worth it.

p.s. She's also been known to throw in a free flux brush or two with your 
order :-)


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 09:00:14 1999
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X-Path: pacbell.net!meryder
From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Weeping Willow Leaves....
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 07:37:34 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.03734.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.172222.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all...

When I need something that will give me the equivalent texture
of something in life that would have hundreds/thousands of teesy-tiny
lives, (such as pine needles) I turn to Uroboros Streaky Ripple Glass...

There are two Green/White streaky varieties...lighter and darker.  Another
variety of this glass is very dark with black streamers in it.

This stuff is a great substitute for tiny pieces....you get the same feel from
the color striations and the heavily ripples texture.

Regards,
Cheryl Ryder




Suzanne Gunn wrote:

> > > The thread on patterns is of special interest as I'm attempting to turn a
> > > picture I found into a Stained glass picture.  My problem is how to deal
> > > with the tree in the picture-it's probably a weeping willow-all those little
> > > pointed pieces of glass are giving me nightmares-I'm sure the glass will get
> > > lost in solder.
>
> Maybe you can find that perfect art glass that can do alot of the work
> for you and minimize the number of peices needed....
>
> try looking at the pic of the tree...blurring your eyes... dont focus
> on the leaves, but the shading and textures...
>
> Just a thought.
>
> T Suz
> --
> Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
>
>                                        ----Harvey MacKay
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 09:24:24 1999
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From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: working on website
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 07:42:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.0423.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.35619.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi -

Re image processing for the web.  I was asking our webmistress at work what she
uses
to process *.bmp scan files into *.jpg or *.jif or other small-memory-sized
web-ready
picture files, and she uses two software packages depending on her application,
both are Microsoft products.

1) Microsoft Front Page
2) Microsoft Publisher

She also said that many scanners have as part of their accompanying software
the capability to save scans in *.jpg or *.jif format.

I hope this helps..

Best regards,
Cheryl Ryder

Tim & Adriana Atwood wrote:

> Have fun scanning the glass images.
>
> Photoshop is a great tool and you can usually use it to correct for many of
> the deficiencies you will probably find in the straight scans of glass
> pictures.  For some reason glass seems to be particularly difficult to get
> the depth and richness to come through on the photo/scan.
>
> One note though: Photoshop is particularly bad at optimizing the digital
> images for the Web.  On the Internet it is very important to have small
> files which will download before people give up.  Doing this yet still
> having the richness and color is something Photoshop just plain will not do
> well.
>
> Instead Adobe chose to put these Web image functions into the standalone
> tool ImageReady.  However, at $300-400 I think ImageReady is way overpriced
> for what you get.
>
> You can get most of the functionality you need with Photoshop compatible
> Plug-Ins available for the $35-100 range.  Send me a note if you want my
> evaluation of the seven or eight web image optimization Plug-Ins I tested
> and which I chose.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Claudette Jaramillo <cpjaram@7cities.net>
> To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 11:03 PM
> Subject: working on website
>
> >The local community college where I teach part time, just gave me some
> space
> >on their server.  So I am gathering pictures of glass (I now wish I had
> >taken pictures before I gave projects as presents.)  My son gave me Adobe
> >PageMill with Adobe Photoshop. I already had a scanner.  So, I haven't a
> >clue how to do this, but I am told, it is not that hard.  (and then they
> >laughed!)
> >
> >I am kinda excited...it feels the same as the feeling I got when I
> purchased
> >my first cellular phone and talked on the phone while driving (I know, I
> >know), or when I learned to do animation on a computer.  Who would have
> >thunk,  I could do this ?!  Damn, but the nineties have been full of
> >electronic surprises!
> >
> >I will write after the weekend, if this thing flies...or maybe I'll write
> by
> >Christmas, if it doesn't.  claudette
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 09:34:00 1999
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X-Path: pacbell.net!meryder
From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: S.G on TV
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 08:02:22 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.1222.0>
References: <<1999Jun30.23747.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Yup, caught it about a month ago...I'm glad HGTV has aired it again.  It was
a high-class statement about SG Art.

-Cheryl

rrk wrote:

> RCall10713@cs.com wrote:
>
> > Any of catch the stained glass segment last night on HGTV's "Modern Masters"
> > series? I only saw the last half, but the artist, I think it was Ann Wolff?
> > has a great studio, a super positive attitude, and the pieces showcased for a
> > residential installation, were very nice indeed. HGTV is one of the few
> > things we watch anymore, and I know that they sometimes repeat shows, This
> > segment was imho, very positive for stained glass, as should be seen, in
> > fact, for those of you who retail, of maintain an active showroom, it might
> > be a great piece to record and have running (with permission, of course)
>
> Richard,
>
> I just checked HGTV's lineup through next Sunday ... we have TCI's "digital" TV
> ... and saw nothing for "Modern Masters".   Is this the actual name of the
> program?  Or is it a segment of another program?
>
> I don't watch HGTV as a matter of course ... Does HGTV have regular features on
> stained glass?
>
> Regards ...... Bob
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 09:41:10 1999
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From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Retail business in general
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 08:31:26 -0700
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EXACTLY RIGHT !!

I've visited some of the larger SG purveyors in the SF Bay Area...and been
treated with disdain, neglect, and outright rudeness.   That's why I keep
returning to my favorite place, "I Love Stained Glass Shoppe" in Hayward, CA.

P.S. I'm a student there, not an employee, nor paid for advertising.   It's my
"little kid inside" saying "this is a neat place...come and play."

The owner says "Stained Glass Makes You Happy"...and it's TRUE !

Best regards,
Cheryl Ryder

Mary wrote:

> I'm tossing my $.02 worth into the discussion. Having owned 2 hair salons, I
> learned something very interesting from a national focus group, which I
> repeated using random clients' opinions in my own salon. I did this because
> I doubted its accuracy.
>
> These are the top 4 reasons clients return to a salon.
> 1. They are greeted at the front desk by name.
> 2. Their stylist has a very good knowledge of hair products and recommends
> the correct ones.
> 3. There is harmony among stylists, and they felt they could change stylists
> without hurt feelings.
> 4. A good haircut.
> I have to also add that our prices were at the top end locally. As
> particular as women are about their hair, THATcame in 4th, and the top two
> reasons were simply good service.
> I believe if I went to Howard's shop, for example, and he charged $.50 for
> flux brushes, BUT he always remembered me, asked me about work we had
> discussed before, and showed a true interest in me, I couldn't care less
> about the price. Having said that, I don't mean to imply that I would ignore
> it if his pricing was way above the average, but I guarantee you I would go
> out of my way to use his store as much as possible, due to his good service.
> Lastly, as a general rule in retail, the normal markup is 100%. If a bottle
> of shampoo cost me 4.50, I sold it for 9.00. On certain items that cost me
> inordinate shipping, "green" fees, etc, I added a bit to that amount.
> To be left waiting at a counter while the employee was chatting on the
> phone, in my opinion, is a major no-no.
> OK.. back to that darn soldering iron. I WILL get it downpat one of these
> days.
> Happy 4th...
> I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
> me to wait.
>  Thanks... Mary
>
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 09:52:17 1999
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Art Deco
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 11:21:22 -0400
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Thank you for the ideas, all of you.
The vague images I had in mind seem to be inspired mostly by the
paintings for Georges LePape and other artists who did illustrations for
Vogue in the 20's.
Straight, narrow dresses (naturally), long fur-trimmed coats, high
collars, women with long necks, cloche hats.  The image is starting to
become clearer, but the background is still fuzzy.  Maybe a vanity with
a low, round mirror...
All because I have a black frame I want to fill.

Dorothy (who's heading to Vermont for the weekend, where the forecast
was for only 85-90 instead of 95-100!)

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 10:04:04 1999
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X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram
From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: nuggets-Arlene
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 10:54:42 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.45442.0>
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Thanks for telling me about putting them in the kiln.  I have fired nuggets
before as part of a project, I should have put two and two together...Duh, I
have been told more that once by my husband, I have no gift for the obvious.
thanks cj

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 11:00:23 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Retail business in general
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:33:57 EDT
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In a message dated 7/3/99 10:31:13 AM, bjs10@cornell.edu writes:

>	I agree with Mary..... and to support that the customer will 
positively
>respond to hearing his name..... [...]
> 
>	I learned early on that my best defense was to learn my customers 
names
>and use them as often as possible.

Maybe I'm just weird, or maybe I have a complex from having grown up with a 
first name I hated and a last name that no one seemed to be able to 
pronounce, but it's *not* true that "everyone's favorite sound is the sound 
of their own name." Some people (myself included) are even a little tiny bit 
"superstitious" about it (although that's too strong a word and not quite the 
right word); there's a social power and sometimes even a presumption of 
familiarity in how we use people's names, and some of us are very 
uncomfortable with that. (I should also add that I'm so bad with names and 
faces that I often don't recognize people I know fairly well when I see them 
in an unfamiliar setting - when I see someone from church in the grocery 
store, f'rinstance.)

It often seems to me that people who insist on calling me by name in the 
course of business, especially when I'm the only person they're talking to, 
are trying to get to me somehow or are unsure that they have my attention.

The worst is when they can't stop doing it. Calling someone by name every 
other sentence is something you do to your kids, not to intelligent adults, 
and as such it can be a form of talking down to people. I've actually gotten 
aggravated enough on occasion to start counting and interrupt with, "Excuse 
me, but I *know* my name, and you already have my attention. There's no need 
to call me by name 10 times in 5 minutes."

IMO, a single "Hey, Sparks, how ya doin'?" or whatever when I walk in the 
door is enough.


Anonymous :-)
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 11:12:46 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: meryder@pacbell.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: working on website
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 11:53:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.65330.0>
References: <<1999Jul3.0423.0>>
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> Hi -
> 
> Re image processing for the web.  I was asking our webmistress at work what she
> uses
> to process *.bmp scan files into *.jpg or *.jif or other small-memory-sized
> web-ready
> picture files, and she uses two software packages depending on her application,
> both are Microsoft products.
> 
> 1) Microsoft Front Page
> 2) Microsoft Publisher
> 
> She also said that many scanners have as part of their accompanying software
> the capability to save scans in *.jpg or *.jif format.
> 
> I hope this helps..
> 
> Best regards,
> Cheryl Ryder
> 

I use Adobe's photo deluxe when I scan, and to convert to .jpg or .gif, 
but use LView Pro to reduce the number of colors to help get the file
size down. 

You can download LView Pro free to use for a limited time period.

Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 11:27:08 1999
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From: "Pkelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Family Account" <shad@mail2.nai.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Art Deco
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:15:19 -0500
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I think I saw a pattern in "Going for Baroque" with a woman in front of a
mirror.... kind of art Deco.


-----Original Message-----
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, July 03, 1999 11:57 AM
Subject: Art Deco


>Thank you for the ideas, all of you.
>The vague images I had in mind seem to be inspired mostly by the
>paintings for Georges LePape and other artists who did illustrations for
>Vogue in the 20's.
>Straight, narrow dresses (naturally), long fur-trimmed coats, high
>collars, women with long necks, cloche hats.  The image is starting to
>become clearer, but the background is still fuzzy.  Maybe a vanity with
>a low, round mirror...
>All because I have a black frame I want to fill.
>
>Dorothy (who's heading to Vermont for the weekend, where the forecast
>was for only 85-90 instead of 95-100!)
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 11:33:27 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: "AA_Instar Glass" <glass@intrastar.net>,
Subject: NG website update
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 10:26:04 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.3264.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Everyone,

I have updated the website galleries, to include a new member's projects,
"Mary".

Also, for those who mentioned the slow loading of the buttons, we now use
one button graphic for the background of the table data cells, and a text
link on top of that. So if you have graphics turned off, you can still get
to the galleries, although you will not see the images with out graphics
turned on,,, ;-)

Hey how about some of you beader's joining, would love to see some company
for Debbie, Jerri, and Joan.

Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/index.htm



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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 13:02:07 1999
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From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: bio-Mary
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:31:08 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.7318.0>
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My mother's family has lived in Jacksonville, Florida for 4 to 5
generations.  One of the bridges there is named for one of my great uncles.
My Aunt's family were all homesteaders in Jacksonville (Pickets), and still
own part of the land grant on the north side.  Most of my relatives worked
for the railroad.  But when the railroad went down, most of my mother's
family moved away.  My mother's only brother, Claude R. Weeks,  still lives
in Switzerland.  I was there in September 1998.  I will be going back in a
couple of years for my uncle's 50th wedding aniversary.

God gave all the artistic talent to others in my family.  But my father took
us to every major art exhibit when we were children.  I developed an
appreciation for art, and a real sense of self and  what I like because of
him.  So I am glad to hear you know what a gift you have.  I have always
wished for more of it!  I also wish I could sing...or well.  cj

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 13:25:33 1999
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Retail business in general
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:13:43 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.51343.0>
References: <<1999Jul3.163357.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

> sometimes even a presumption of 
> familiarity in how we use people's names, and some of us are very 
> uncomfortable with that.



interesting you say that Sparks....tied in with the same "have a nice
day" mentality is the OVERUSE of peoples names....I think the people who
seem to appreciate the use of hteir name the most are people in some
hobby related business where the customer and salesperson already have
some common ground....ditto the hairdresser...I used to drive an hour to
go to a friend who took customer surveys, gave you drinks while you
waited AND did great haircuts at the same time....I think since its
already sort of intimate having someone touching your head or your nails
or whatever its OK in that environment. But what pisses me off is when
my bank, or car dealer or worse, some unknown phone soliciter gets all
chummy with me because they have read somewhere that people are so vain
that they will preen all over and drop their wallets like pee wee herman
drops his pants just because some market researcher has uncovered a few
facts about them....I guess it is a matter of "does this person really
care" (which in a stained glass shop or a bookstore or whatever the
person probably really DOES care and enjoy chatting with those of like
interests) vs. some market researcher who is just being all phony to
separate me from as much money as possible. 


Liz
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 13:50:27 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, Soraya <soraya@cros.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop and other aggravating customer service
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:02:42 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.5242.0>
References: <<001c01bec51b$88d98c20$abfbfea9@justice>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

Soraya wrote:
> 
> >>my current pet peeve is a number of local businesses who have taken to
> >>saying "its a wonderful day at _______"
> 
> You have got that right.  My car dealer does that....one day I asked the
> poor girl on the phone if it really was that great of a day there....she
> said no.
> 
> I have also complained up to and including the owner that I found it phoney
> and annoying and even though I have bought three new cars from the place I
> might not the next time...because of having to listen to that whenI call for
> service.....doubt it did any good.
> 
> Soraya



must be a trend with car dealers becasue that is specifically the
business I was thinking of...that and a local realtor...and now a bunch
of others seem to have picked it up...I actually said to the girl that
if someone had had a particularly horrible day...you know...death and
such like that or somethign comparable..how upsetting that could
be....and she just chirped at me that "she was just doing her job" and
added that SHE'S happy....I tell ya...if they didnt do such a good job
on my truck I'd go elsewhere but they are probably all chirpy there
too...sigh....


Liz
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 14:27:35 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: NG Web Graphics Compression Evaluation (was: Re: websites-Tim)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:14:55 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.61455.0>
Precedence: bulk

For the two most common web graphics formats, the compression techniques are
different:

GIF - 1) Reduce the number of colours, preferably to the web safe color
pallet. 2) Dither remaining colors so the combinations still look good to
the eye.

I evaluated GIF packages using the various banner logos you can see on the
Holtenwood web pages.  The Holtenwood trees were especially hard to
compress.  The colours were mainly in the purple ranges.  The web safe
colour pallet is lacking in large sections of the "lilac" range of colours.
Purple has a tendency to be dithered by compression engines into blue and
red pixels.  However, the human eye tends to see the red dots as floating
above and flickering next to the blue.  In other words this simple dithering
technique does not look good for purple.

JPEG - 1) Pre-filtering to soften detail the monitor can not display or the
eye can not see. 2) "Q-Table" selection for maximum compression with minimal
"artifacts" (that funny squiggly stuff you see near sharp edges in
compressed jpegs).

I evaluated JPEG packages using the various photos on the Holtenwood web
site. Stained glass is particularly difficult for jpeg compression. It tends
to have fields of colour with some sections smooth yet others highly
textured. This makes it very hard for a compression engine to choose an
appropriate Q-table. Stained glass also has hard lines (came or foil)
between areas of colour. This makes the images extremely prone to artifacts
when compressed.

Compression engines were all that I looked at.  I already had GIF animation
and 3-D software so I evaluated packages with these bundled in based only on
the compression engines.

I did not evaluate PNG format as it does not seem the tools nor the browsers
are up to really using it yet.

I mostly evaluated Adobe compatible plug-ins (which also work in many other
graphics packages).  All are available for purchase online.  Most have
evaluation copies available for a limited time or limited use.

I ended up with the Digital Frontiers HVS tools
 http://www.digfrontiers.com/ ):
HVS ColorGIF 2.0 - $45 US
HVS JPEG 2.0- $45 US
Bundles with animation and other tools available at other prices.

HVS ColorGIF 2.0 - This is where the Digital Frontiers HVS (Human Visual
System) colour reduction engine really did the job. It is what sold me on
the package.  The concept here is that the human eye is more sensitive to
some colour ranges than others.  In extremely dark or extremely light areas
you can get by with much fewer colours and the eye won't notice.  The human
eye is also much less sensitive to variations in the red ranges.  The HVS
system also seems to have intelligence about contrasting colours such as red
an blue mentioned above.  Most other GIF compression engines choose dither
colours purely mathematically based on the average of the numeric value of
the colour.

The selection of dithering techniques was good.

The batch processing where the same colour reduction can be applied to an
entire set of images is great if you are doing web pages with multiple
graphics on the same page.

Minor complaints: The preview window is too small and can not be zoomed.
Some difficulty switching back and forth from web-safe colour palette and
other palettes - often requires selecting new palette twice. Something weird
with transparent colour choices - sometime reverts to previous transparent
selection when changing other values.

HVS JPEG 2.0

The prefiltering was easy to use and seemed to offer a good range of
control. The prefiltering did an above average job of leaving sharp edges
while still removing unneeded detail.

Excellent selection of pre-designed Q-Tables.  The "Textured Image" Q-table
was especially good for most stained glass and resulted in excellent
compression ratios with minor artifacts (at 60 to 80% quality setting).

Minor complaints: The preview window is too small and can not be zoomed
(though it does scroll).  The estimated compression numbers are based only
on what is showing in the preview window and not the whole graphic. Since
you are usually viewing the most troublesome part of the picture, the
estimated compression is often way off. The "Optimized" Q-table was rarely
the best choice for Q-table selection. (I think the "Optimize" decision
algorithm was being based on only what was shown in the preview window and
therefore made poor choices for the rest of the image).

Other packages I looked at:

SPG Web Tools: - $99 US:
A pile of stuff included in this bundle, but since I was only looking at web
compression I did not pay attention to the rest of it.  Who knows, some of
it may be great.
The GIF saver allows selection of palettes including web safe colours.
However did not seem to have intelligent colour choosing, non-dithered
hybrid colours, or good dithering techniques.
The JPEG cleaner was excellent.  But I felt that in only rare cases would it
produce better results than the HVS pre-filter.
Q-table selection about average.

WebVise Totality (Auto F/X) $116 - 129 US
Looked great visually. I think if you were a graphics designer you would be
impressed just by the look of it. But truth is, I found it hard to use.  It
was hard to find the controls amongst all the cool graphics.  Too many
controls - much of these controls are probably already built into your
graphics package and I think this is the better place to fiddle with some of
this stuff.  The sliders were difficult to control accurately. For example,
if I accidentally touched the "Size" slider it seemed almost impossible to
get it back to zero so the size of my picture was not changed.
Auto F/X GIF: Good choice of palettes.  The web adaptive palette seemed like
a good idea but it did not really come up with better results on my test
graphics.  A lot of the controls sounded great from the help description,
but hey - I could not really get them to do what the description implied.
Auto F/X JPEG: Could not even figure out what they were using for Q-tables.
What some of the sliders were doing was beyond me. Perhaps if I knew the
math or image theory behind Q-tables I could make intelligent decisions
about these things. But at my level of graphics knowledge I want a tool that
makes a few more decisions for me.

Boxtop Software:
Photo GIF $69.95 US
Image Vice $49.95 US

Photo GIF: Loved the side by side original to compressed image comparison.
Very limited dithering options though.  I found it difficult to figure out
how the various palette and "Base" combinations worked, but after I figured
it out it ended up with about the same selections as the HVS tools (though I
think the "Base" idea is meant to be similar to the Auto F/X web adaptive
palette).

Image Vice: I think you need a course in jpeg compression to know what these
controls are doing.  What the heck is "velocity" in a jpeg anyway?  What is
clipping and why does it have two sliders and how do these two sliders work
together? "Huh?" was all I could say.

ULead Web Utilities:
I wish I could have evaluated these.  Based on other reviews they are quite
good.  But after two days trying to download from their totally screwed up
FTP sites and then having their v-box stuff blow up when I finally tried to
install a good copy, I just plain gave up. They staunchly refused to help
with the download and installation of evaluation copies even though it was
clearly a bug on their end. So they lost the potential sale. Maybe the stuff
is not really that good so they don't want you to evaluate it first
anyway....

-----Original Message-----
From: Claudette Jaramillo <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 9:13 PM
Subject: websites-Tim


>Please send me your evaluation...also if you know if I can buy these over
>the net...I live in the wild, wild west, and it is far to the nearest
>computer store.  I do most of my shopping via the net.  Two more electronic
>miracles, shopping on the net and the debit card!  cj
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 15:13:26 1999
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Retail business in general
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 16:21:07 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990703162107.006a3ef8@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
References: <<1999Jul3.163357.0>>
Precedence: bulk

"Hey, Sparks, how ya doin'?"
	
	Is exactly what I do............ During a meal I have about 500 customers
and try to say "hello, hi, hey", by name, to as many as I can.  And it
works for me......
	I used to be bad with names and faces, but once I started making it a
point to remember names, etc... it has become easier.  Just like everything
else.... practice, practice, practice.
	And trust me on this one......  if I ever seem to be talking "down" to my
customers...... Cornell students (presumed assumption of intelligence here)
would surely let me know it.
	When it comes to people, nothing is 100% but in my own personal
experience...... it is a good thing.  And judging from the number of cards
we get from graduating seniors.... and visits from alum, I think I will
stick with it.  Not to mention the personal benefits that I have gotten out
of getting to know a number of very fine young people.  Something I am very
glad I did not miss.  Some have even taken enough of an interest to talk
glass !!  

Barbara




At 12:33 PM 7/3/99 EDT, Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 7/3/99 10:31:13 AM, bjs10@cornell.edu writes:
>
>>	I agree with Mary..... and to support that the customer will 
>positively
>>respond to hearing his name..... [...]
>> 
>>	I learned early on that my best defense was to learn my customers 
>names
>>and use them as often as possible.
>
>Maybe I'm just weird, or maybe I have a complex from having grown up with a 
>first name I hated and a last name that no one seemed to be able to 
>pronounce, but it's *not* true that "everyone's favorite sound is the sound 
>of their own name." Some people (myself included) are even a little tiny bit 
>"superstitious" about it (although that's too strong a word and not quite
the 
>right word); there's a social power and sometimes even a presumption of 
>familiarity in how we use people's names, and some of us are very 
>uncomfortable with that. (I should also add that I'm so bad with names and 
>faces that I often don't recognize people I know fairly well when I see them 
>in an unfamiliar setting - when I see someone from church in the grocery 
>store, f'rinstance.)
>
>It often seems to me that people who insist on calling me by name in the 
>course of business, especially when I'm the only person they're talking to, 
>are trying to get to me somehow or are unsure that they have my attention.
>
>The worst is when they can't stop doing it. Calling someone by name every 
>other sentence is something you do to your kids, not to intelligent adults, 
>and as such it can be a form of talking down to people. I've actually gotten 
>aggravated enough on occasion to start counting and interrupt with, "Excuse 
>me, but I *know* my name, and you already have my attention. There's no need 
>to call me by name 10 times in 5 minutes."
>
>IMO, a single "Hey, Sparks, how ya doin'?" or whatever when I walk in the 
>door is enough.
>
>
>Anonymous :-)
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 16:11:01 1999
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X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@island.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: HEADS UP RE: ETOUR AND ELISABETH'S VISIT
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 14:57:20 -0700
Message-ID: <199907032157.OAA05453@mimas.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all...here's the latest scoop for those of you planning to meet Elisabeth
this summer while she's on tour.  The time is fast approaching and man, is
Elisabeth ever excited.  We've had her tickets purchased and she's starting
to pack her bags of tools.  

There's a great SURPRISE in store for people who will be attending her
workshops too, as well as FREE GIFTS of tools handmade by her students back
in England.  Elisabeth's vision for this trip has been to improve
communication and closeness amongst glass artists across the Atlantic, so
her students have had a part in helping her get ready.

For folk planning on meeting her at Glass Visions, please know she will be
there as a guest only, so this is a great way to meet her socially.  At
Warner Crivallero's request she will not be doing any teaching or workshops
at this event.  We want to be really clear on this in advance so no one is
disappointed...if you want to do hands on with her, register for a workshop
regardless of whether you're attending Glass Visions or not.

On the other hand, if you want to see her at work and get into technical
hands on stuff with her,  to learn or improve your lead came technique the
only way to do this is to register for one of her weekend workshops.

It's time to register NOW.  Spaces are filling up and at least one workshop
is almost full.  So here's an overview of where she'll be and when.  Since
each host studio is taking their own registrations, complete contact
information for registering for these workshops is on our web page at
http://come.to/The_E-Tour  

August 14-15 Meredith STudios, Maryland
August 21-22 Meredith STudios, Maryland
  * Note: For people who really want to spend time working with Elisabeth,
she's offering a 10% discount on the second weekend if you want to attend
both workshops at Meredith Studios! 

August 28 weekend: Elisabeth will be a social guest only at Glass Visions,
Warner Crivallero Store, Allentown, Pa. 

September 11-12:  Kansas City

September 18-19: Seattle at Northwest Art Glass

September 25-26: Florida, location TBA.  Please email Lenore at if you're
interested in attending.  (Yegnim@aol.com)

That's all folks...except make your plans and register NOW!

Carol

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
http://come.to/The_E-Tour

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 16:44:12 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG Web Graphics Compression Evaluation (was: Re: websites-T
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:38:27 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.83827.0>
Precedence: bulk

Of course I use Paint Shop Pro 5.  But it does not have web compression
itself.  Since I was evaluating Adobe compatible plug-ins, these work in
Paint Shop Pro 5 great and I use them just as often from there.

In fact, I don't actually have Adobe Photoshop or Illustrator (I don't have
a spare grand to throw down the tube).  I actually use a combination of
Adobe PhotoDeluxe which came free with my scanner and Jasc's Paint Shop Pro
5.  Then when I need something more I get a fairly cheap (or sometimes free)
plug-in.

-----Original Message-----
From: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: Tim & Adriana Atwood <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
Date: Saturday, July 03, 1999 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: NG Web Graphics Compression Evaluation (was: Re: websites-T


>Gee, Tim, no PaintShop Pro? http://www.jasc.com
>
>If Photoshop's my right hand, PSP's my left. No question.
>
>Albert
>
>Albert Lewis
>AllDesignCom.com | Design & Communications
>__________________________________________
>54 Cherry Street      North Adams MA 01247
>413 663-7946             Fax: 413 663-7167
>      http://www.alldesigncom.com/

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 17:34:41 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "EastGateXX@msn.com" <EastGateXX@email.msn.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker for glass retailers   Wow!!!
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 19:39:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.153924.0>
References: <<1999Jul2.20570.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Wow, who knew that a sly, little, tongue (firmly, eh Albert?...Mikey) in
cheek joke about the price of flux brushes would finally stir up some
worthwhile, intelligent and insightful (cool, alliteration, huh...)
comments. Way to go Linda Sue and Eastgate...

Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

----- Original Message -----
From: EastGateXX@msn.com <EastGateXX@email.msn.com>
To: Bungi <Glass@Bungi.com>
Sent: July 3, 1999 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker for glass retailers Wow!!!


> >>Well.....FYI...I respect my retailer. He not only helps me with all my
> questions but also is there to explain everything. Is he making a profit
> on his supplies?...I would hope so(...) I think no matter what the price
> was...you'd still complain.
>
> Sue
> > Ditto!  Well said Sue...
>
> I can't say it better than Sue did.  I can just "second that emotion".
>
> Further,  There isn't a time, not ONE MINUTE, when  I go into my local
> supplier that I don't get hundreds of dollars worth of
> advice/counsel/encouragement/training/education/and fun.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sat Jul  3 18:32:15 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Im gettin' hot! YEEEEEHA!
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 19:37:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul3.143747.0>
Precedence: bulk

Did I tell y'all Im getting a torch~?  :o)  Well I am.
One of those really great people that doesnt want their name
mentioned...for fear that other people will know what a neat 
person they are.....

Guess what?  All of us already **know** YOU ARE...naner naner naner! ;o)
Im soooooooooooo excited! :o)

My husband is shaaaaaaaking worried what I will need to buy now! lol...
hahahahhahaha...Did I say how excited I am????

I keep saying, "I need to get..." and he says "What you need is to make
some money.."  

Well...my soldering iron is hot.. ;o)

Tulsa Suzanne....soon to be a true hothead! ;o)
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
----
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From owner-glass Sun Jul  4 02:33:14 1999
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Water-jet glass cutting
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 03:48:02 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Jul4.11482.0>
Precedence: bulk

Folks

There was a discussion a few months ago about waterjet cutting. I found
this article of the subject that makes good reading.

http://www.artglassworld.com/

Enjoy.

Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313

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From owner-glass Sun Jul  4 09:45:44 1999
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X-Path: telebot.com!debbiesgarden
From: Debbie Tenhoff <debbiesgarden@telebot.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Blown glass ornaments
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 12:08:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul4.8856.0>
Precedence: bulk

Can anyone give me a brief description on making blown glass ornaments
using a blow torch? Names of suppliers? What basic tools are needed? Is
there any good books on the subject?  Thank you in advance.

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From owner-glass Sun Jul  4 12:51:17 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, <TLOakes@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Holtenwood Web Site Up
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:02:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul4.5241.0>
Precedence: bulk

My ISP is having problems.  They are working on it tonight.  Until they
figure out what is wrong, my site can not be accessed.  Sorry about that.

-----Original Message-----
From: TLOakes@aol.com <TLOakes@aol.com>
To: atwoods@aisl.bc.ca <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
Date: Saturday, July 03, 1999 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Holtenwood Web Site Up


>Hello Tim,
>     I tried accessing your web site and couldn't.  I am on AOL so that
might
>be the problem?  let me know if there are any tricks that I must use to get
>there?  Have a great day, Terry

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From owner-glass Sun Jul  4 13:45:08 1999
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X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop and other aggravating customer service
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 99 01:37:37 
Message-ID: <199907041944.NAA06506@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

On Tue, 06 Jul 1999 21:02:28 -0700, Elizabeth Arakelian wrote:

>my current pet peeve is a number of local businesses who have taken to
>saying "its a wonderful day at _______" I always feel like saying, yah,
>my favorite aunt just died, I found out I have a terminal illness and my
>dog got run over, yeah, wonderful day, RIGHT.......it irritates me NO
>END...when a simple "you've reached ______, how can we direct your
>call?" would be much much more appropriate.  While no one likes
>rudeness, the other extreme is just as aggravating IMHO.
>
>
>Liz

yeah, this one hit home...

a year ago now, my only living brother shot up some heroin and died right then of an 
overdose. last Jan 29th, my very drunk mother stepped in front of a very slow moving 
car and was killed instantly. I've had trouble staying employed because of the thin 
engineering job world. I have a disabling illness. So, all these are true. I've been trying 
hard not to take my grieving out on people around me.. and usually do well. Except 
then I get *lectures* from people on how to become more interested in sports so I'll 
lose weight, or that I should smile a lot more, or that I seem to be a depressed person... 
the list could go on. 

I decided I'd finally just tell them, and then they leave me alone. Only a few wonderful 
people look at me, and give me real comfort. And they are jewels!

I tell you all this, not for sympathy (for me), but for those out there who are quite possibly 
handling a heavy load.. remember to have compassion at all times.. just direct them so 
they can get on with their lives and jobs (sometimes I need to be gently pushed in the 
right direction.. )

Candy

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From owner-glass Sun Jul  4 13:59:19 1999
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: Debbie Tenhoff <debbiesgarden@telebot.com>
Subject: Re: Blown glass ornaments
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@POP>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 16:04:24 +0000
Message-ID: <199907042003.QAA04836@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> Can anyone give me a brief description on making blown glass
> ornaments using a blow torch? Names of suppliers? What basic tools
> are needed? Is there any good books on the subject?  Thank you in
> advance.

I just finished updating http://www.cdvkiln.com/ ... the web site of 
Centre DeVerre, an artist-run source for burners and torches. You can 
ask Marty Daily anything about torch work ... he'll *tell you!

Albert

Albert Lewis
AllDesignCom.com | Design & Communications
__________________________________________
54 Cherry Street      North Adams MA 01247
413 663-7946             Fax: 413 663-7167
      http://www.alldesigncom.com/
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From owner-glass Sun Jul  4 14:15:54 1999
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From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>, "Rickola@aol.com" <Rickola@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Glass at the Gardens
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 99 01:59:08 
Message-ID: <199907042005.OAA07241@mantis.privatei.com>
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Hey everyone, 

On this topic, goto:

www2.privatei.com/~candy

and see information on this year's show, and all I could glean on past shows, including 
photos ,,,, please forgive the photo part, I'm getting better..

and I'll be glad to answer any questions.. I'm putting another bit of info on by late this 
eve..
Candy

On Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:15:55 EDT, Rickola@aol.com wrote:

>Denver's big glass event is coming up soon (end of July- early August at the 
>Denver Botanical Gardens). Can anybody who has been to this event in the past 
>describe it in some detail? Am looking forward to attending and seeing 
>quality work.

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From owner-glass Sun Jul  4 16:13:41 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Candy Thurman <candy@ghostman.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bad service in a shop and other aggravating customer service
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:50:08 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.7508.0>
References: <<199907041944.NAA06506@mantis.privatei.com>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
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> a year ago now, my only living brother shot up some heroin and died right then of an 
> overdose. last Jan 29th, my very drunk mother stepped in front of a very slow moving 
> car and was killed instantly. I've had trouble staying employed because of the thin 
> engineering job world. I have a disabling illness. So, all these are true. I've been trying 
> hard not to take my grieving out on people around me.. and usually do well. Except 
> then I get *lectures* from people on how to become more interested in sports so I'll 
> lose weight, or that I should smile a lot more, or that I seem to be a depressed person... 
> the list could go on. 
> 
> I decided I'd finally just tell them, and then they leave me alone. Only a few wonderful 
> people look at me, and give me real comfort. And they are jewels!
> 


I am so sorry to hear of your troubles....yes...I have had a fair share
due to the addicts in my life too...not to mention dealing with my own
depression and "stuff".....I think people who have not walked thru some
really heavy stuff think its just a matter of "thinking positively" and
"looking on the bright side" but they just have NOOOOO clue what it
feels like to be sunk this deep....I suppose it is human nature to want
to help someone rather than sitting by with nothing to offer but an "I
am sorry" but a lot of these suggestions do nothing but show that the
other person has obviously NOT been there....this really wasnt what I am
talking about wtih these salespeople...they just think that if niceness
makes sales then overdoing the niceness might make MORE sales...but a
lot of people seem to always have some  suggestion on how others could
be getting over their depression better, coping with life better,
raising their children better, doing this, doing that that of course
everyone KNOWS that studies prove you should be doing it this way...etc
etc etc..gosh I just wish it was a matter of snapping ones fingers and
getting over it.....I have realized most of these folks really just dont
know any better so I have toned down the smartass comments I used to
make becasue it really DOESNT improve things and then people think you
have an attitude on top of everything else..took me a long time to learn
that one...


Liz
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From owner-glass Sun Jul  4 19:14:28 1999
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From: RCall10713@cs.com
To: embee@mediaone.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Sending a photo
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:33:17 EDT
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Mary,

If I can become a prodigy @ 52, you certainly can in your 40's, Well, I 
actually started in my 40's but really didn't achieve prodigy status 'till 
just recently.

BTW, I just love the " went out to find myself", thank you very much. I plan 
to use that at the first opportunity, the next time someone asks me what I'm 
"up to" these days.


Richard
Glassics Artglass
Valencia, CA
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  5 07:20:09 1999
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X-Path: scc.net!oddjob
From: "Susan C. Reitmann" <oddjob@scc.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Article on Tiffany Thefts
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:21:07 -0500
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Our Sunday edition of the Mpls. Star Tribune had an interesting article on 
the thefts of Tiffany originals. A copy of the article is available on the 
web for anybody interested.
Go to http:///startribune.com
Click on archives ( left side of page)
Click on "search the current data base (bottom of page)
Enter Stained Glass in the search box
Click Search
Check box titled "Tiffany Works in Obscure Places, July 4, 99.

Access to the article is free from the data base for 3 weeks.
Sue Reitmann (Mpls.,MN)

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From owner-glass Mon Jul  5 07:30:52 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: NG Across the pond.....
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:18:39 EDT
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Well folks, I'm off on the Big Bird to London this evening. Gonna be there 
for a couple of days, then on to Salisbury and then the far southwest 
(Dartmouth). I'm not signing off bungi though - don't want to miss a thing! 
(My other half will be downloading my mail daily.)

Still hoping to meet up with Elisabeth at some point......

So - all you fine folks out there behave yourselves while I'm gone........ I 
leave it up to you to decide whether you want to behave well or badly :-) and 
I'll catch up with y'all (see what happens when you work for somebody from 
the south?) when I get back!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  5 08:21:35 1999
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From: Sue Prullage <stepsue@ezl.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: stained glass store in general
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 09:13:39 -0600
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I agree with everyone that said using a person's first name makes them
feel welcome.  I teach aerobics and I greet all my students my name.  If
I have a new student I welcome them personnally and find out alittle
about that person.  I think this keeps my classes full, as well as, I
make them sweat.  Sue
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  5 12:55:27 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 10:26:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.62613.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.93520.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
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rrk wrote:
> 
> Hello Debbie.  This is not a flame ... but some things in
> your email bear
> correcting.  This might seem like a flame, but believe me
> this is not.  I
> reserve that for special and very rare occasions (which this
> is not), like when
> someone attacks me and I stand to lose something.
> 
> daver!one.net!kleeman@earthlink.net wrote:
> 
> > i don't know if this is correct or not,
> 
> it is not correct
> 
> > but the when i asked the computer nerd i live with about this (he is a
> > programmer)
> 
> So what?  I do computer programming too, as do other people
> on this list (at
> least one that I'm certain of).  What experience does he
> have with legal
> matters?  I have quite a bit.  Most of the programmers I
> know wouldn't know a
> whereof from a therein <smile>.  Besides that ... I not only
> know how to read
> the English language but I speak of what I know and have
> verified before I give
> an opinion on a legal issue.  Why don't you print out the
> following excerpt from
> the Yahoo TOS in question (now apparently changed in some
> minor details), which
> he evidently never read (or didn't understand) before he
> gave the opinion you
> quoted him on, and see if he doesn't change his mind.  I'll
> bet he DOES change
> his mind once he READS the TOS in question.
> 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 8. CONTENT SUBMITTED TO YAHOO
> 
> By submitting Content to any Yahoo property, you
> automatically grant, or warrant that the owner of
> such Content has expressly granted, Yahoo the
> royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive
> and fully sublicensable right and license to use,
> reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate,
> create derivative works from, distribute, perform
> and display such Content (in whole or part)
> worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works
> in any form, media, or technology now known or
> later developed.
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> > he said it is a disclaimer for yahoo to not get sued--
> 
> The above is NOT a "disclaimer" ... sorry.  It SPECIFICALLY
> lays claims to any
> and all works placed on their servers.
> 
> That *may* have been Yahoo's ORIGINAL intent.  But their
> *intent* is something
> known only to the Master of the Universe.  What counts, is
> what they WROTE.
> 
> In law, the only thing that counts is what is in black and
> white and signed.
> What the Yahoo TOS SAYS, in black and white, is that THEY
> can do ANYTHING THEY
> WANT with ANYTHING you put on their server *if* you
> expressly agree to it.  THAT
> is what counts.
> 
> OK?
> 
> You do not have to be an attorney to figure that one out.
> 
> > for example, if someone copies something off of mike's site, mike cannot sue
> > yahoo for copyright infringement---
> 
> If that were their intent ... then why doesn't their TOS say
> so?  Instead, their
> TOS says something VERY different.
> 
> > even though it sounds like you are getting the shaft, yahoo is trying to
> > protect themselves
> 
> Unfortunately for this point of view, their TOS allows them
> to do whatever they
> want with any and all your works at their discretion ...
> just a wee bit more
> than "just trying to protect themselves".
> 
> > now, please don't flame me on any of these, i am only relaying what i was
> > told the computer industry feels is happening - IT IS MY OPINION - and only
> > my opinion
> 
> Debbie ... when you (or anyone else) express an opinion in a
> public forum,
> particularly on a legal matter that affects a lot of people,
> you must be
> prepared to defend it.  If you don't like that, then don't
> express opinions.
> There are (at last report) some 650+ people on this mailing
> list ... this is a
> public forum no matter how relaxed and laid back it may
> seem.
> 
> For example, look at Albert Lewis' writings and see how
> carefully they are
> worded.  He's a good writer too. (That is an opinion I feel
> confident no one
> will disagree with.)  It is clear that HE knows this is a
> public forum. <G>
> 
> I bite my tongue quite often when tempted to express an
> opinion in a public
> forum on legal issues, politically charged issues, and/or
> issues with religious
> import, because such expression would require me to defend
> said opinion and I
> decide quite frequently its just not worth the effort.  Most
> people don't really
> want to know anyone else's opinion in the first place and
> simply get emotional
> when you disagree with them even if they haven't actually
> expressed their
> opinion.  For example, I completely disagree with the
> idiotic opinion expressed
> by that American ex-patriate living in Mexico.  I have lived
> in Mexico myself (a
> summer) and returned many times since as well as Europe (12
> years) and visited
> much of North, West and Central Africa, South America and
> Asia (mostly for
> teaching) so I have a right to an opinion on the subject.
> Instead I chose not
> to express an opinion on that subject.
> 
> THIS issue (Yahoo/Geocities) is different and I chose to
> speak up (a little)
> because Mike Savaad, who has given a lot to the online
> stained glass community,
> is in a tight spot.
> 
> Actually, if I were in Mike's shoes [HINT HINT HINT HINT
> HINT], I'd shut down
> the Geocities site and get a virtual server at OLM or
> WEBAXXS.  For $15/month
> you get 400 MB of server storage (thats actually quite a
> lot) and around 5 GB
> transfer per month (thats a lot of GB's btw) +  other stuff
> I won't get into.
> They're extremely reliable and the cheapest around.  Not to
> mention that THEY
> get all the non-negligible hassles of running a server.
> I've been using them
> for some time now.  Further, Geocities is a TERRIBLE outfit.
> 
> OK ... way past time to go ..... regards to all
> (particularly Debbie <G>)
> ........ Bob
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah but then i'd have to pay for it. and since i'm not making any money
i would'nt want to pay for it... got to the newsgroup
alt.homepages.geocities there's been quite a bit of talk about this....

now i have re-write some of my site and upload it else where.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  5 14:54:05 1999
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From: wordofhope <wordofhope@ftc-i.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Please remove me
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 16:52:19 -0400
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Dear Sirs;

Please remove me from your E-mail list.
Thank You
Wordofhope
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  5 16:55:09 1999
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From: "Vincent LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: make that "Win FRiends"
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:12:33 -0400
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Must be the heat!

Required reading within one month after accepting employment with me are:

1.  How to "WIN" Friends and Influence People. - Dale Carnegie.

2.  Winning through Intimidation. - Robert J. Ringer

Each are dangerous without the other.

Ciao

Vic


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From owner-glass Mon Jul  5 18:55:07 1999
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X-Path: stainedglassartists.com!Pam
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <Pam@stainedglassartists.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo Mike and rrk (bob)
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 17:38:42 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul5.103842.0>
Organization: The Stained Glass Artists/MM LTD.
Precedence: bulk

Mike wrote:

yeah but then i'd have to pay for it. and since i'm not making any money

i wouldn't want to pay for it... got to the newsgroup
alt.homepages.geocities there's been quite a bit of talk about this....

now i have re-write some of my site and upload it else where.

---Mike Savad


Can't you just upload your site to home.net Mike? You should have free
web page hosting through your ISP. When I started out I had Geocities
too, then uploaded everything to pacifier who is my ISP, then uploaded
again when I went virtual with Dreamhost. I left geocities because I
couldn't sell anything for free and because of the banner ads. Not
because I didn't like their service.


Hello Debbie.  This is not a flame ... but some things in
> your email bear
> correcting.  This might seem like a flame, but believe me
> this is not.  I
> reserve that for special and very rare occasions (which this
> is not), like when
> someone attacks me and I stand to lose something.


Pam writes: Debatable in my opinion

rrk goes on to say:

In law, the only thing that counts is what is in black and
> white and signed.
> What the Yahoo TOS SAYS, in black and white, is that THEY
> can do ANYTHING THEY
> WANT with ANYTHING you put on their server *if* you
> expressly agree to it.  THAT
> is what counts.
>
> OK?
>
> You do not have to be an attorney to figure that one out. <snip>

Pam writes:  Geocities/Yahoo is a community of people, millions of
people who enjoy free web space. Those who wish to sell through
geocities/Yahoo must pay for that privilege. The TOS is most likely a
way to weed out the people who sell anything through geocities/Yahoo or
remotely look like they are selling anything. This is also good for
people with X-rated material who love to spam through geocities/Yahoo.
Are they going to take Mikes work and do what they wish with it? No. Can
they, sure. But I really believe this is a way for them to keep their
business exactly where they want it and to control some of the people
who radically abuse their system. This is a great measure that they have
taken and I think it shows some serious business kahunas. If people
don't like it, go somewhere else. There are thousands of free web space
providers on the net. Geocities has always had a strict rule about that
part of the service agreement. You sell, you pay. I know, Mike doesn't
sell anything.

Unfortunately for this point of view, their TOS allows them
> to do whatever they
> want with any and all your works at their discretion ...
> just a wee bit more
> than "just trying to protect themselves".
>
Pam wrote: If I owned geocities/Yahoo, it would be in my TOS too. I'm
offering a free service to millions of people. Some of them not so
great. If I've got some X-rated site, spamming thousands of people it
would be pure joy to say "hey all of what you have on your site is mine,
see ya" and put them out of business for awhile and make them go
somewhere else. I personally have sent 13 emails to abuse@geocities.com
because of X-rated spamming or spamming me in general. I think they are
fed up with the bad people they have abusing their system. The TOS gives
them control which is exactly what they should have.

bob wrote:


 I bite my tongue quite often when tempted to express an
> opinion in a public
> forum on legal issues, politically charged issues, and/or
> issues with religious
> import, because such expression would require me to defend
> said opinion and I
> decide quite frequently its just not worth the effort.  Most
> people don't really
> want to know anyone else's opinion in the first place and
> simply get emotional
> when you disagree with them even if they haven't actually
> expressed their
> opinion.  For example, I completely disagree with the
> idiotic opinion expressed
> by that American ex-patriate living in Mexico.  I have lived
> in Mexico myself (a
> summer) and returned many times since as well as Europe (12
> years) and visited
> much of North, West and Central Africa, South America and
> Asia (mostly for
> teaching) so I have a right to an opinion on the subject.
> Instead I chose not
> to express an opinion on that subject.
>
> THIS issue (Yahoo/Geocities) is different and I chose to
> speak up (a little)
> because Mike Savaad, who has given a lot to the online
> stained glass community,
> is in a tight spot.

pam wrote: Mike's not in a tight spot. He can move his site no problem.
I agree that Mike has had a large impact on the stained glass surfing
community looking for info. But there are like I said thousands of free
web site hosts. Moving a site is time consuming but not impossible and
that is what geocities/Yahoo want people to do with their new TOS
agreement.



>
> Actually, if I were in Mike's shoes [HINT HINT HINT HINT
> HINT], I'd shut down
> the Geocities site and get a virtual server at OLM or
> WEBAXXS.  For $15/month
> you get 400 MB of server storage (thats actually quite a
> lot) and around 5 GB
> transfer per month (thats a lot of GB's btw) +  other stuff
> I won't get into.
> They're extremely reliable and the cheapest around.  Not to
> mention that THEY
> get all the non-negligible hassles of running a server.
> I've been using them
> for some time now.  Further, Geocities is a TERRIBLE outfit.

Find a free space Mike, you don't have to pay for one. Put a forwarding
addy at geocities and direct people to your new site. And I will defend
Geocities. I started out with them and learned alot about html while I
was there. They provide an excellent online community for millions of
people around the world for free. And they have been very good to Mike
Savad in my opinion, how terrible is that?  You get what you pay for.


Sincerely,

Pam

--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Moswood Mountain Ltd.
http://www.stainedglassartists.com/MM_Ltd.htm


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From owner-glass Mon Jul  5 19:55:48 1999
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Pamela Burns-Tappan <Pam@stainedglassartists.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo Mike and rrk (bob)
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 22:15:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul5.181515.0>
References: <<1999Jul5.103842.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Pamela Burns-Tappan wrote:
> 
> Mike wrote:
> 
> yeah but then i'd have to pay for it. and since i'm not making any money
> 
> i wouldn't want to pay for it... got to the newsgroup
> alt.homepages.geocities there's been quite a bit of talk about this....
> 
> now i have re-write some of my site and upload it else where.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> Can't you just upload your site to home.net Mike? You should have free
> web page hosting through your ISP. When I started out I had Geocities
> too, then uploaded everything to pacifier who is my ISP, then uploaded
> again when I went virtual with Dreamhost. I left geocities because I
> couldn't sell anything for free and because of the banner ads. Not
> because I didn't like their service.
> 
> Hello Debbie.  This is not a flame ... but some things in
> > your email bear
> > correcting.  This might seem like a flame, but believe me
> > this is not.  I
> > reserve that for special and very rare occasions (which this
> > is not), like when
> > someone attacks me and I stand to lose something.
> 
> Pam writes: Debatable in my opinion
> 
> rrk goes on to say:
> 
> In law, the only thing that counts is what is in black and
> > white and signed.
> > What the Yahoo TOS SAYS, in black and white, is that THEY
> > can do ANYTHING THEY
> > WANT with ANYTHING you put on their server *if* you
> > expressly agree to it.  THAT
> > is what counts.
> >
> > OK?
> >
> > You do not have to be an attorney to figure that one out. <snip>
> 
> Pam writes:  Geocities/Yahoo is a community of people, millions of
> people who enjoy free web space. Those who wish to sell through
> geocities/Yahoo must pay for that privilege. The TOS is most likely a
> way to weed out the people who sell anything through geocities/Yahoo or
> remotely look like they are selling anything. This is also good for
> people with X-rated material who love to spam through geocities/Yahoo.
> Are they going to take Mikes work and do what they wish with it? No. Can
> they, sure. But I really believe this is a way for them to keep their
> business exactly where they want it and to control some of the people
> who radically abuse their system. This is a great measure that they have
> taken and I think it shows some serious business kahunas. If people
> don't like it, go somewhere else. There are thousands of free web space
> providers on the net. Geocities has always had a strict rule about that
> part of the service agreement. You sell, you pay. I know, Mike doesn't
> sell anything.
> 
> Unfortunately for this point of view, their TOS allows them
> > to do whatever they
> > want with any and all your works at their discretion ...
> > just a wee bit more
> > than "just trying to protect themselves".
> >
> Pam wrote: If I owned geocities/Yahoo, it would be in my TOS too. I'm
> offering a free service to millions of people. Some of them not so
> great. If I've got some X-rated site, spamming thousands of people it
> would be pure joy to say "hey all of what you have on your site is mine,
> see ya" and put them out of business for awhile and make them go
> somewhere else. I personally have sent 13 emails to abuse@geocities.com
> because of X-rated spamming or spamming me in general. I think they are
> fed up with the bad people they have abusing their system. The TOS gives
> them control which is exactly what they should have.
> 
> bob wrote:
> 
>  I bite my tongue quite often when tempted to express an
> > opinion in a public
> > forum on legal issues, politically charged issues, and/or
> > issues with religious
> > import, because such expression would require me to defend
> > said opinion and I
> > decide quite frequently its just not worth the effort.  Most
> > people don't really
> > want to know anyone else's opinion in the first place and
> > simply get emotional
> > when you disagree with them even if they haven't actually
> > expressed their
> > opinion.  For example, I completely disagree with the
> > idiotic opinion expressed
> > by that American ex-patriate living in Mexico.  I have lived
> > in Mexico myself (a
> > summer) and returned many times since as well as Europe (12
> > years) and visited
> > much of North, West and Central Africa, South America and
> > Asia (mostly for
> > teaching) so I have a right to an opinion on the subject.
> > Instead I chose not
> > to express an opinion on that subject.
> >
> > THIS issue (Yahoo/Geocities) is different and I chose to
> > speak up (a little)
> > because Mike Savaad, who has given a lot to the online
> > stained glass community,
> > is in a tight spot.
> 
> pam wrote: Mike's not in a tight spot. He can move his site no problem.
> I agree that Mike has had a large impact on the stained glass surfing
> community looking for info. But there are like I said thousands of free
> web site hosts. Moving a site is time consuming but not impossible and
> that is what geocities/Yahoo want people to do with their new TOS
> agreement.
> 
> >
> > Actually, if I were in Mike's shoes [HINT HINT HINT HINT
> > HINT], I'd shut down
> > the Geocities site and get a virtual server at OLM or
> > WEBAXXS.  For $15/month
> > you get 400 MB of server storage (thats actually quite a
> > lot) and around 5 GB
> > transfer per month (thats a lot of GB's btw) +  other stuff
> > I won't get into.
> > They're extremely reliable and the cheapest around.  Not to
> > mention that THEY
> > get all the non-negligible hassles of running a server.
> > I've been using them
> > for some time now.  Further, Geocities is a TERRIBLE outfit.
> 
> Find a free space Mike, you don't have to pay for one. Put a forwarding
> addy at geocities and direct people to your new site. And I will defend
> Geocities. I started out with them and learned alot about html while I
> was there. They provide an excellent online community for millions of
> people around the world for free. And they have been very good to Mike
> Savad in my opinion, how terrible is that?  You get what you pay for.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Pam
> 
> --
> 
> Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
> Moswood Mountain Ltd.
> http://www.stainedglassartists.com/MM_Ltd.htm
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i'll stick it on my pile of ideas. i'm hoping yahoo will come to there
senses, and fix it. this way i don't have to have myself updated from
god only knows where...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jul  5 22:27:37 1999
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:45:43 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 10:26:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.62613.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.93520.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

rrk wrote:
> 
> Hello Debbie.  This is not a flame ... but some things in
> your email bear
> correcting.  This might seem like a flame, but believe me
> this is not.  I
> reserve that for special and very rare occasions (which this
> is not), like when
> someone attacks me and I stand to lose something.
> 
> daver!one.net!kleeman@earthlink.net wrote:
> 
> > i don't know if this is correct or not,
> 
> it is not correct
> 
> > but the when i asked the computer nerd i live with about this (he is a
> > programmer)
> 
> So what?  I do computer programming too, as do other people
> on this list (at
> least one that I'm certain of).  What experience does he
> have with legal
> matters?  I have quite a bit.  Most of the programmers I
> know wouldn't know a
> whereof from a therein <smile>.  Besides that ... I not only
> know how to read
> the English language but I speak of what I know and have
> verified before I give
> an opinion on a legal issue.  Why don't you print out the
> following excerpt from
> the Yahoo TOS in question (now apparently changed in some
> minor details), which
> he evidently never read (or didn't understand) before he
> gave the opinion you
> quoted him on, and see if he doesn't change his mind.  I'll
> bet he DOES change
> his mind once he READS the TOS in question.
> 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 8. CONTENT SUBMITTED TO YAHOO
> 
> By submitting Content to any Yahoo property, you
> automatically grant, or warrant that the owner of
> such Content has expressly granted, Yahoo the
> royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive
> and fully sublicensable right and license to use,
> reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate,
> create derivative works from, distribute, perform
> and display such Content (in whole or part)
> worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works
> in any form, media, or technology now known or
> later developed.
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> > he said it is a disclaimer for yahoo to not get sued--
> 
> The above is NOT a "disclaimer" ... sorry.  It SPECIFICALLY
> lays claims to any
> and all works placed on their servers.
> 
> That *may* have been Yahoo's ORIGINAL intent.  But their
> *intent* is something
> known only to the Master of the Universe.  What counts, is
> what they WROTE.
> 
> In law, the only thing that counts is what is in black and
> white and signed.
> What the Yahoo TOS SAYS, in black and white, is that THEY
> can do ANYTHING THEY
> WANT with ANYTHING you put on their server *if* you
> expressly agree to it.  THAT
> is what counts.
> 
> OK?
> 
> You do not have to be an attorney to figure that one out.
> 
> > for example, if someone copies something off of mike's site, mike cannot sue
> > yahoo for copyright infringement---
> 
> If that were their intent ... then why doesn't their TOS say
> so?  Instead, their
> TOS says something VERY different.
> 
> > even though it sounds like you are getting the shaft, yahoo is trying to
> > protect themselves
> 
> Unfortunately for this point of view, their TOS allows them
> to do whatever they
> want with any and all your works at their discretion ...
> just a wee bit more
> than "just trying to protect themselves".
> 
> > now, please don't flame me on any of these, i am only relaying what i was
> > told the computer industry feels is happening - IT IS MY OPINION - and only
> > my opinion
> 
> Debbie ... when you (or anyone else) express an opinion in a
> public forum,
> particularly on a legal matter that affects a lot of people,
> you must be
> prepared to defend it.  If you don't like that, then don't
> express opinions.
> There are (at last report) some 650+ people on this mailing
> list ... this is a
> public forum no matter how relaxed and laid back it may
> seem.
> 
> For example, look at Albert Lewis' writings and see how
> carefully they are
> worded.  He's a good writer too. (That is an opinion I feel
> confident no one
> will disagree with.)  It is clear that HE knows this is a
> public forum. <G>
> 
> I bite my tongue quite often when tempted to express an
> opinion in a public
> forum on legal issues, politically charged issues, and/or
> issues with religious
> import, because such expression would require me to defend
> said opinion and I
> decide quite frequently its just not worth the effort.  Most
> people don't really
> want to know anyone else's opinion in the first place and
> simply get emotional
> when you disagree with them even if they haven't actually
> expressed their
> opinion.  For example, I completely disagree with the
> idiotic opinion expressed
> by that American ex-patriate living in Mexico.  I have lived
> in Mexico myself (a
> summer) and returned many times since as well as Europe (12
> years) and visited
> much of North, West and Central Africa, South America and
> Asia (mostly for
> teaching) so I have a right to an opinion on the subject.
> Instead I chose not
> to express an opinion on that subject.
> 
> THIS issue (Yahoo/Geocities) is different and I chose to
> speak up (a little)
> because Mike Savaad, who has given a lot to the online
> stained glass community,
> is in a tight spot.
> 
> Actually, if I were in Mike's shoes [HINT HINT HINT HINT
> HINT], I'd shut down
> the Geocities site and get a virtual server at OLM or
> WEBAXXS.  For $15/month
> you get 400 MB of server storage (thats actually quite a
> lot) and around 5 GB
> transfer per month (thats a lot of GB's btw) +  other stuff
> I won't get into.
> They're extremely reliable and the cheapest around.  Not to
> mention that THEY
> get all the non-negligible hassles of running a server.
> I've been using them
> for some time now.  Further, Geocities is a TERRIBLE outfit.
> 
> OK ... way past time to go ..... regards to all
> (particularly Debbie <G>)
> ........ Bob
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah but then i'd have to pay for it. and since i'm not making any money
i would'nt want to pay for it... got to the newsgroup
alt.homepages.geocities there's been quite a bit of talk about this....

now i have re-write some of my site and upload it else where.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 06:57:48 1999
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X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram
From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: design question
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:26:45 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul6.12645.0>
Precedence: bulk

Since I am a beginner at designing my own patterns, I have a question on
leaves.  I designed a panel with panes as the background.  I have roses
climbing on two intertwining vines.  I placed my leaves as the last element.
I have a few leaves that will need to connect to the panes.  On a  rose leaf
how do I best to draw the connecting line.  Do I follow one of the curves of
the leaves, do I come off the tip of the leaf, or do I just take the
shortest route?  No matter how I pencil it in, it doesn't look right...and
if I get rid of the leaves it doesn't look balanced.  I know I am just not
getting something. Do I use two different sizes of foil...a wider one for
the panes and a finer one for the connecting lines?   thanks claudette

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 08:26:38 1999
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:21:32 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: <hotglass@list.bb.net>,
Subject: COLD GLASS New pics at Intrastar website
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:19:22 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul6.01922.0>
References: <<005b01bec79d$c00e2d20$ef318118@computer>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Everyone,

There are new pictures at the Intrastar website.

http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/gallery.htm

There are three new member galleries,,,

Mary
Patty
Patrick


and more pictures from

Suzanne O' Tulsa

Great to see more Great Glass, and Welcome on board.

Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/index.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: Mary <embee@mediaone.net>
To: <glass@intrastar.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 03:53 AM
Subject: New pics


> I just saw the new pics from Patrick and Patty. I just loved them all!
> Patrick, your horse was just beautiful, so detailed!
> Patty... we must be related! I LOVE purples and blues too, and use them as
> often as possible. The abstract is similar to one I've done, and close in
> color usage as well.
> Thanks for sending them in!
>
> I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please
tell
> me to wait.
>  Thanks... Mary
>
>
>


----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 08:51:49 1999
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From: S-Perchelli@webtv.net (Susan Perchelli)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-5631-4652
Subject: Fwd: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker for glass retailers   Wow!!!
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:40:07 -0700 (PDT)
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Precedence: bulk


--WebTV-Mail-5631-4652
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit

I thought other bungians ought to see this response. While it may be
true that every retailer does not stock EVERYTHING in the way of stained
glass supplies...it's obvious that something can be ordered in the same
amount of time that it takes to get it via a mail order company. While
my local store does not stock everything that's new...they do  have
literature and make me aware of what's out there. As for a store owner
not wanting to carry anything that's new....it appears by that
statement, that retail store owners only carry things that are old.

Sue


--WebTV-Mail-5631-4652
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<html><i>Frederico suggested I keep my hands where he could see them...I
didn't listen. Now, me and Lefty are sharing the same prosthetic
device.</i></html>


--WebTV-Mail-5631-4652
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From: "Charles Warner" <charles@warner-criv.com>
To: "Susan Perchelli" <S-Perchelli@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker for glass retailers   Wow!!!
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:27:09 -0400
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Sue:
   =20
    Purchaseing locally only, will greatly limit you to things that =
someone else approves (the store owner).  Our greatest difficulty as =
product designers, importers and wholesalers is the mindset of retail =
store owners.  For the most part retailers do not want to carry anything =
that is new and do not have the working capitol to fully stock a store.
   =20
    Charles Warner
   =20
    Who spends her money locally.

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<HEAD>

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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px"><FONT=20
    color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sue:</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px"><FONT=20
    color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px"><FONT=20
    size=3D2>Purchaseing locally only, will greatly limit you to things =
that=20
    someone else approves (the store owner).&nbsp; Our greatest =
difficulty as=20
    product designers, importers and wholesalers is the mindset of =
retail store=20
    owners.&nbsp; For the most part retailers do not want to carry =
anything that=20
    is new and do not have the working capitol to fully stock a=20
store.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px"><FONT=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px"><FONT=20
    color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Charles Warner</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">Who=20
    spends her money locally.</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 08:54:57 1999
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From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Misc.
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:47:19 CST 6CDT
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Just got back to work after the long (hot) weekend and had to 
make a couple of comments after catching up on the last few days' 
bungi posts.

1.  Shakeel!  Where the heck have you been?  I was beginning to 
the wonder if the IGGA had done you in!

2.  Retailers.  I have the luxury (in the NW suburbs of Chicago) to 
have at least three glass shops w/in a half hour of my house.  At 
the one where I took my beginner classes (ten years ago---and 
continue to spend my Thursday evenings) the owner has a 
standing line when he learns that someone bought stuff from one of 
his competitors--"well, at least you'll know where they're located 
when I go out of business."  He doesn't get all bent out of shape (in 
fact he's sent me there to buy something he needed in an 
emergency).  But we get the point.  I buy from him whenever 
possible and he occasionally cuts me a deal on larger purchases 
(and even loans me things).  Sometimes I'll see something 
elsewhere and then go back and ask him to order it.  Sure, I buy 
things on sale via mail/web order when it's a bargain, but I try to 
support my local retailer as much as possible because I owe him 
so much for his help and for the many friends I've made through his 
establishment.

Kaye   
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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 09:14:10 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: design question
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:54:42 -0700
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>>I placed my leaves as the last element.
I have a few leaves that will need to connect to the panes.  On a  rose leaf
how do I best to draw the connecting line.  Do I follow one of the curves of
the leaves, do I come off the tip of the leaf, or do I just take the
shortest route?  <<

Good question. Here is what I did yesterday. To connect the tip of a leaf to
another element which is often necessary for practical cutting purposes I
start with the placement of the leaf itself. Most of my leaves have a gentle
curve or S-curve down the centerline where the main vein of a real leaf is.
This curve is then extended in a smooth flowing arc to make the connection.
With care the extended line can actualy add to the beauty of a panel. A
finer lead may be used for the extension.

So............ my run off lines are longer than a straight line but much
more pleasing to the eye. I think that is what counts.
......................Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out:
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/bob/indexpage1.htm

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 09:20:59 1999
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X-Path: sk.sympatico.ca!dbarker
From: "Dawn Barker" <dbarker@sk.sympatico.ca>
To: "Glasslist" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: design question
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:41:17 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul6.24117.0>
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On July 8, a new friend, Claudette, asked:


>On a  rose leaf  how do I best to draw the connecting line.  Do I follow
one of the curves of the leaves, do I come off the tip of the leaf, or do I
just take the shortest route. Do I use two different sizes of foil...a wider
one for the panes and a finer one for the connecting lines?

I don't know about everyone else around here, but I'd say it depends on your
background to some degree.  What sort of glass are you using? If baroque,
could you follow the design to make the line less noticeable?

I did a couple panels with ivy vines last year, and since the vine itself
was curved rather than angular and the leaves were curved, I curved rather
than angled the joint lines.  It looked good, but (frustration) I didn't get
the chance to take a pic... the customer called in a day early, just as I
was finishing the glass, and swept them away!

Sometimes I do use a wider tape for the design itself and narrower for the
connecting lines - it makes them a bit less noticeable.  But it's more
brainwork too.    :  )

Good luck, let us know how you do!

Dawn

"I'm not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing."

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 09:31:40 1999
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From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: Who is Dale Tiffany??
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:09:58 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul6.1958.0>
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I am just retailing this message and not vouching for it's accuracy.
............Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out:
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/bob/indexpage1.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve <glassworks@iavbbs.com>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.glass
Date: Monday, July 05, 1999 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: Who is Dale Tiffany??


>Dale Tiffany is not a who, but a what.
>A rather sizeable glass studio, factory style.  Whether or not it is still
>in Korea, I am not sure, they moved to mainland China, I understand(not
>fact), and then moved back, of was that Ko Ting, maker of lamps and very
>recognizable bronze bases.  Anyway, Dale Tiffany is a factory,
headquartered
>in Korea, owned and operated by a fella by the name of Chung.  All the US
>glass factories know them, he buys more in one order than most
distributors!
>
>

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 09:52:50 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Claudette Jaramillo <cpjaram@7cities.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: design question
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 11:19:33 -0400
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Claudette Jaramillo wrote:
> 
> Since I am a beginner at designing my own patterns, I have a question on
> leaves.  I designed a panel with panes as the background.  I have roses
> climbing on two intertwining vines.  I placed my leaves as the last element.
> I have a few leaves that will need to connect to the panes.  On a  rose leaf
> how do I best to draw the connecting line.  Do I follow one of the curves of
> the leaves, do I come off the tip of the leaf, or do I just take the
> shortest route?  No matter how I pencil it in, it doesn't look right...and
> if I get rid of the leaves it doesn't look balanced.  I know I am just not
> getting something. Do I use two different sizes of foil...a wider one for
> the panes and a finer one for the connecting lines?   thanks claudette
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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if it does'nt look right, it does'nt look right. try placing more leaves
there. a large bee, a bird, a vine, another rose. and a little here and
there, so there are'nt any break lines. most people will draw right to
that...

generally a break line follows the most free flowing curve. for a leaf i
usually nail it with a center line. inside curves work well too. tiffany
broke up some areas by splitint it off to look like tree branches (on
panels with trees). 

play with it, looks at it, if it does'nt look right to you, you may
regret it later.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 10:57:27 1999
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker 
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@POP>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:02:23 +0000
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> I thought other bungians ought to see this response. While it may be
> true that every retailer does not stock EVERYTHING in the way of
> stained glass supplies...it's obvious that something can be ordered
> in the same amount of time that it takes to get it via a mail order
> company. 

Sue,

I don't see anything in Charles' comment that refers to how 
quickly anything can be delivered to either a store owner or to an 
individual. What'd I miss? He *did say that purchasing locally limits 
you to what the store owner has in stock, which is usually items that 
the store owner prefers; that's what I read in Charles' comment, 
anyway.

> While my local store does not stock everything that's
> new...they do  have literature and make me aware of what's out
> there. As for a store owner not wanting to carry anything that's
> new....it appears by that statement, that retail store owners only
> carry things that are old.

It's understandable (to me, anyway) that few retail stores will have 
*everything in stock all the time, even the latest/greatest whatever 
... and if they have literature and are willing to get stuff for 
their customers, that's great. Service with a smile. But again, I 
didn't see anything in Charles' statement that indicated retail shop 
owners carry only what's "old." Perhaps what's "tried and true," 
or "safe" (in the sense of "I know this item and I can sell it," 
sure; that'd make sense.

Note, too, that Charles is speaking as a designer of new products, as 
an importer and as a wholesaler. His experience from that point of 
view might be very different than that experienced by a walk-in 
customer like yourself, mightn't it?


Albert
 

Charles said:

>     Purchaseing locally only, will greatly limit you to things that
> someone else approves (the store owner).  Our greatest difficulty as
> product designers, importers and wholesalers is the mindset of
> retail store owners.  For the most part retailers do not want to
> carry anything that is new and do not have the working capitol to
> fully stock a store.
>     Charles Warner
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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 11:26:59 1999
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-CRAZY PEOPLE
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:05:49 EDT
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In a message dated 7/2/99 2:49:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
daver!one.net!kleeman@aol.com writes:

> one guy was upset because he can't find anyone that sells stained glass kits
>  that he could buy and cut down to fit his front door--didn't want a custom
>  piece -- wanted a generic piece of stained glass he could reshape from a
>  kit!

Ummm, isn't that called contact paper???   Remember the fake stained glass 
kind from the 70's???  <grin>

IA
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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 13:02:03 1999
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From: "Pkelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Wholesale and Retail Glass Stores
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 14:00:01 -0500
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I have been reading with interest the "Flux Brush" thread.

Seldom do I ever leave a SG store without buying something. Even if it is
only a $3 or $4 dollar item. I consider this a token of appreciation for the
store owner's effort.

A business must make a profit to stay in business. If buying a few brushes,
pattern book, gems, etc. will help someone stay open for the time that I
really need them... .. I am happy to do it.

Sometime take a look at those retail magazines, web-based businesses, or
watch TV and see the products they sell. I was watching last night and they
were selling 2 cooler bags for $19.95 which I guess is OK, but, the shipping
and handling fees were very excessive. When you have to pay over 35% more
for shipping and handling the local retailer can usually beat that price.

As a caveat I don't buy anything from anybody who doesn't treat me with
respect. I walk out of the store, be it a Mom and Pop grocery store or a
large retailer. Additionally, I do not wait for hours in line to eat at a
restaurant ...no matter how good people say the food is.

Bottom Line...... Respect equals Receipts...

PS.... Don't remember why I got on this subject.........ROFL


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 13:56:58 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:07:05 -0400
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Message text written by "Albert Lewis"
>
Note, too, that Charles is speaking as a designer of new products, as =

an importer and as a wholesaler.<

Charles is a retailer, too - and as far as I can tell
he's the apex of service to everyone... the guy =

oughta write a book on good retailing.  There
are lots of folks out there who could learn a thing
or two from him.  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer (who started her day with an hour-and-
a-half phone chat with Elisabeth.... what fun!)
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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 14:27:13 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: warn the fire dept!
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 15:20:09 -0500
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The torch came today!!!!! :o)
Oh, what a fun mail day for me!  New birkenstocks, IGGA new member pack,
and a torch!  Yeeeha.  Life is good.  Better sell something to pay the
Visa bill. ;o)

Gotta match?  Watch out, I could be dangerous! ;o)
T Suz
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 14:51:40 1999
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From: "Dawn Barker" <dbarker@sk.sympatico.ca>
To: "Glasslist" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Wholesale and Retail Glass Stores
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 14:16:23 -0600
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>Seldom do I ever leave a SG store without buying something. Even if it is
> only a $3 or $4 dollar item. I consider this a token of appreciation for
the
> store owner's effort.


Amen, Patrick!  As well, I believe that every person you speak to will have
a different view on how to do a certain project, I have picked up many, many
wonderful ideas at no charge from my glass retailers.  So I don't mind
spending a few bucks here and there to keep them onhand.

Dawn

"Carelessly planned projects take three times longer to complete than
expected. Carefully planned projects take four times longer to complete than
expected, mostly because the planners expect their planning to reduce the
time it takes".



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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 17:57:10 1999
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X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 99 05:53:11 
Message-ID: <199907062359.RAA22617@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

On Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:07:05 -0400, Dani Greer wrote:

>Message text written by "Albert Lewis"
>>
>Note, too, that Charles is speaking as a designer of new products, as =
>
>an importer and as a wholesaler.<
>
>Charles is a retailer, too - and as far as I can tell
>he's the apex of service to everyone... the guy =
>
>oughta write a book on good retailing.  There
>are lots of folks out there who could learn a thing
>or two from him.  =
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer (who started her day with an hour-and-
>a-half phone chat with Elisabeth.... what fun!)

and is quite a hoot!! I've enjoyed our emails

Candy

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 18:26:56 1999
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X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>, "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 99 05:59:09 
Message-ID: <199907070005.SAA22960@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

yahoo has printed a very clear proviso.... to whit:

anything you submit is your property not ours

Candy

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 18:29:24 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Candy Thurman <candy@ghostman.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 20:07:51 -0400
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Candy Thurman wrote:
> 
> yahoo has printed a very clear proviso.... to whit:
> 
> anything you submit is your property not ours
> 
> Candy


but you have to read on , that was the firt bone thwy threw. if i don't
sign it they don't own, but as soon as i do they do. so if i go in to
delete, update, move, etc. i have to say yes. furthermore, if i even
join just one yahoo thing i've also agreed, because it's a global
agreement.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net (Albert Lewis)
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Purchasing anything from anybody anywhere limits you to what they have
in stock. Duh! Evn Mr. Warner doesn't carry everything! Also note that
Charles is speaking as a mail order company as well. Pray tell Albert,
what stained glass retail experience do you have? What stained glass
experience do you have at all?

Sue


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<html><i>Frederico suggested I keep my hands where he could see them...I
didn't listen. Now, me and Lefty are sharing the same prosthetic
device.</i></html>


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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@POP>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:02:23 +0000
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> I thought other bungians ought to see this response. While it may be
> true that every retailer does not stock EVERYTHING in the way of
> stained glass supplies...it's obvious that something can be ordered
> in the same amount of time that it takes to get it via a mail order
> company. 

Sue,

I don't see anything in Charles' comment that refers to how 
quickly anything can be delivered to either a store owner or to an 
individual. What'd I miss? He *did say that purchasing locally limits 
you to what the store owner has in stock, which is usually items that 
the store owner prefers; that's what I read in Charles' comment, 
anyway.

> While my local store does not stock everything that's
> new...they do  have literature and make me aware of what's out
> there. As for a store owner not wanting to carry anything that's
> new....it appears by that statement, that retail store owners only
> carry things that are old.

It's understandable (to me, anyway) that few retail stores will have 
*everything in stock all the time, even the latest/greatest whatever 
... and if they have literature and are willing to get stuff for 
their customers, that's great. Service with a smile. But again, I 
didn't see anything in Charles' statement that indicated retail shop 
owners carry only what's "old." Perhaps what's "tried and true," 
or "safe" (in the sense of "I know this item and I can sell it," 
sure; that'd make sense.

Note, too, that Charles is speaking as a designer of new products, as 
an importer and as a wholesaler. His experience from that point of 
view might be very different than that experienced by a walk-in 
customer like yourself, mightn't it?


Albert
 

Charles said:

>     Purchaseing locally only, will greatly limit you to things that
> someone else approves (the store owner).  Our greatest difficulty as
> product designers, importers and wholesalers is the mindset of
> retail store owners.  For the most part retailers do not want to
> carry anything that is new and do not have the working capitol to
> fully stock a store.
>     Charles Warner
----
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From: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 21:11:21 -0400
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Well I guess you can read anything you want into Mr. Warner's statements.
It did come off sounding anti-retailer though in my opinion.  You just
rearranged his words Albert to make it sound innocent in that respect.  I
do believe he said "Purchasing locally will greatly limit you to things
that someone else approves (the store owner)."    And also, "Our greatest
difficulty as product designers, importers and wholesalers is the mindset
of retail store owners."  And what would this mindset be?  As a retailer,
I take offence to these statements as they seem to suggest that buying
from your local retailer is not in your best interest.  But perhaps buying
from an online or mail order source such as W/C is in your best
interest?   I don't think Sue saw anything in Mr. Warner's comments that
referred to how quickly anything could be ordered and delivered to a store
or to an individual either......she was just pointing out that ordering
something from your local retailer vs an online or mail order source
probably would arrive in the same amount of time.
Why would a wholesaler take such an interest in this topic of discussion
anyway unless of course, there is some other reason?  True wholesalers
sell to retailers who sell to the general public.  I don't know of any
TRUE wholesalers that sell directly to the public.  Of course, I live in
Canada so things may be done differently in the USA....I don't know.
There are of course suppliers who call themselves wholesalers in an effort
to make the public think they are buying at wholesale prices when in fact
they are not.  They're buying at discounted prices,  somewhere between
wholesale and retail because the online or mail order supplier doesn't
have the overhead a small retailer has.  And there's nothing wrong with
discounted prices, after all, even Wal Mart offers personal service.  Oh,
I'm sorry, online and mail order suppliers don't give personal service.
What was I thinking?  That's like comparing apples to oranges!
A bit of advice for Mr. Warner.....perhaps next time he should post such
comments directly to the list and give the retailers a chance to speak for
themselves.  What was the purpose of this message?  To try to gently
persuade Sue to shop elsewhere?  Perhaps online?
Oh, that's right....Dani says he is a retailer as well.  Well whatever his
mindset is, being a retailer, I doubt if many other retailers share it.
The retailers I know are in this business because they love it and wish to
disseminate their passion for art glass.  They're not out to gouge the
public in order to achieve mogul status as many would have the public
believe.

This is just my opinion of course...another point of view.

Dayle Pandke
Celestial Luminosities


Albert Lewis wrote:

> > I thought other bungians ought to see this response. While it may be
> > true that every retailer does not stock EVERYTHING in the way of
> > stained glass supplies...it's obvious that something can be ordered
> > in the same amount of time that it takes to get it via a mail order
> > company.
>
> Sue,
>
> I don't see anything in Charles' comment that refers to how
> quickly anything can be delivered to either a store owner or to an
> individual. What'd I miss? He *did say that purchasing locally limits
> you to what the store owner has in stock, which is usually items that
> the store owner prefers; that's what I read in Charles' comment,
> anyway.
>
> > While my local store does not stock everything that's
> > new...they do  have literature and make me aware of what's out
> > there. As for a store owner not wanting to carry anything that's
> > new....it appears by that statement, that retail store owners only
> > carry things that are old.
>
> It's understandable (to me, anyway) that few retail stores will have
> *everything in stock all the time, even the latest/greatest whatever
> ... and if they have literature and are willing to get stuff for
> their customers, that's great. Service with a smile. But again, I
> didn't see anything in Charles' statement that indicated retail shop
> owners carry only what's "old." Perhaps what's "tried and true,"
> or "safe" (in the sense of "I know this item and I can sell it,"
> sure; that'd make sense.
>
> Note, too, that Charles is speaking as a designer of new products, as
> an importer and as a wholesaler. His experience from that point of
> view might be very different than that experienced by a walk-in
> customer like yourself, mightn't it?
>
> Albert
>
>
> Charles said:
>
> >     Purchaseing locally only, will greatly limit you to things that
> > someone else approves (the store owner).  Our greatest difficulty as
> > product designers, importers and wholesalers is the mindset of
> > retail store owners.  For the most part retailers do not want to
> > carry anything that is new and do not have the working capitol to
> > fully stock a store.
> >     Charles Warner
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



--------------A2B3F3FFD5E2A5DF091D2437
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<HTML>
Well I guess you can read anything you want into Mr. Warner's statements.&nbsp;
It did come off sounding anti-retailer though in my opinion.&nbsp; You
just rearranged his words Albert to make it sound innocent in that respect.&nbsp;
I do believe he said "<U>Purchasing locally will greatly limit</U> you
to things that someone else approves (<U>the store owner</U>)."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
And also, "Our greatest difficulty as product designers, importers and
wholesalers is the <U>mindset of retail store owners.</U>"&nbsp; And what
would this mindset be?&nbsp; As a retailer, I take offence to these statements
as they seem to suggest that buying from your local retailer is not in
your best interest.&nbsp; But perhaps buying from an online or mail order
source such as W/C is in your best interest?&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't think
Sue saw anything in Mr. Warner's comments that referred to how quickly
anything could be ordered and delivered to a store or to an individual
either......she was just pointing out that ordering something from your
local retailer vs an online or mail order source probably would arrive
in the same amount of time.
<BR>Why would a wholesaler take such an interest in this topic of discussion
anyway unless of course, there is some other reason?&nbsp; True wholesalers
sell to retailers who sell to the general public.&nbsp; I don't know of
any TRUE wholesalers that sell directly to the public.&nbsp; Of course,
I live in Canada so things may be done differently in the USA....I don't
know.&nbsp; There are of course suppliers who call themselves wholesalers
in an effort to make the public think they are buying at wholesale prices
when in fact they are not.&nbsp; They're buying at discounted prices,&nbsp;
somewhere between wholesale and retail because the online or mail order
supplier doesn't have the overhead a small retailer has.&nbsp; And there's
nothing wrong with discounted prices, after all, even Wal Mart offers personal
service.&nbsp; Oh, I'm sorry, online and mail order suppliers don't give
personal service.&nbsp; What was I thinking?&nbsp; That's like comparing
apples to oranges!
<BR>A bit of advice for Mr. Warner.....perhaps next time he should post
such comments directly to the list and give the retailers a chance to speak
for themselves.&nbsp; What was the purpose of this message?&nbsp; To try
to gently persuade Sue to shop elsewhere?&nbsp; Perhaps online?
<BR>Oh, that's right....Dani says he is a retailer as well.&nbsp; Well
whatever <U>his</U> mindset is, being a retailer, I doubt if many other
retailers share it.&nbsp; The retailers I know are in this business because
they love it and wish to disseminate their passion for art glass.&nbsp;
They're not out to gouge the public in order to achieve mogul status as
many would have the public believe.

<P>This is just my opinion of course...another point of view.

<P>Dayle Pandke
<BR>Celestial Luminosities
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>Albert Lewis wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>> I thought other bungians ought to see this response.
While it may be
<BR>> true that every retailer does not stock EVERYTHING in the way of
<BR>> stained glass supplies...it's obvious that something can be ordered
<BR>> in the same amount of time that it takes to get it via a mail order
<BR>> company.

<P>Sue,

<P>I don't see anything in Charles' comment that refers to how
<BR>quickly anything can be delivered to either a store owner or to an
<BR>individual. What'd I miss? He *did say that purchasing locally limits
<BR>you to what the store owner has in stock, which is usually items that
<BR>the store owner prefers; that's what I read in Charles' comment,
<BR>anyway.

<P>> While my local store does not stock everything that's
<BR>> new...they do&nbsp; have literature and make me aware of what's out
<BR>> there. As for a store owner not wanting to carry anything that's
<BR>> new....it appears by that statement, that retail store owners only
<BR>> carry things that are old.

<P>It's understandable (to me, anyway) that few retail stores will have
<BR>*everything in stock all the time, even the latest/greatest whatever
<BR>... and if they have literature and are willing to get stuff for
<BR>their customers, that's great. Service with a smile. But again, I
<BR>didn't see anything in Charles' statement that indicated retail shop
<BR>owners carry only what's "old." Perhaps what's "tried and true,"
<BR>or "safe" (in the sense of "I know this item and I can sell it,"
<BR>sure; that'd make sense.

<P>Note, too, that Charles is speaking as a designer of new products, as
<BR>an importer and as a wholesaler. His experience from that point of
<BR>view might be very different than that experienced by a walk-in
<BR>customer like yourself, mightn't it?

<P>Albert
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>Charles said:

<P>>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Purchaseing locally only, will greatly limit
you to things that
<BR>> someone else approves (the store owner).&nbsp; Our greatest difficulty
as
<BR>> product designers, importers and wholesalers is the mindset of
<BR>> retail store owners.&nbsp; For the most part retailers do not want
to
<BR>> carry anything that is new and do not have the working capitol to
<BR>> fully stock a store.
<BR>>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Charles Warner
<BR>----
<BR>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
<BR>To send to the list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to:
glass@bungi.com
<BR>Archives available at <A HREF="http://www.bungi.com/glass">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:57:15 +0800
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>


>oughta write a book on good retailing.  There
>are lots of folks out there who could learn a thing
>or two from him.  =


My ideal location for a studio. Walking distance from where ever  Charles
has a shop.
Couldn't agree with you more.
Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 21:44:14 1999
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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: warn the fire dept!
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 22:02:04 +0800
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>


>The torch came today!!!!! :o)
>Oh, what a fun mail day for me!  New birkenstocks, IGGA new member pack,
>and a torch!  Yeeeha.  Life is good.  Better sell something to pay the
>Visa bill. ;o)
>
>Gotta match?  Watch out, I could be dangerous! ;o)

Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
Happy glass melting! 


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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:51:15 +0800
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From: Kaye Sodt <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
>
>1.  Shakeel!  Where the heck have you been?  I was beginning to
>the wonder if the IGGA had done you in!


Been here and there, have missed the Bungi post for most of May and June,
so have a lot of catching up. Good to be back.

>
>2.  Retailers.  I have the luxury (in the NW suburbs of Chicago) to
>have at least three glass shops w/in a half hour of my house.  At


I am lucky too on that front. I have only one (and only ) retailer. Me. :-)
But I agree with you having a retailer, and getting things locally is boon
that should not be taken lightly. I know, I buy most of my supplies from
mail or wholesale.

Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313

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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 22:27:06 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 23:42:57 -0500
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> Purchasing anything from anybody anywhere limits you to what they have
> in stock. Duh! Evn Mr. Warner doesn't carry everything! Also note that
> Charles is speaking as a mail order company as well. Pray tell Albert,
> what stained glass retail experience do you have? What stained glass
> experience do you have at all?
> 
> Sue
> 

These are only *my* humble 2 cents...

I dont know what Albert knows about stained glass.  I sure wish I did.
I'd like to live long enough to learn all Albert knows about glass.

Nope, Charles doesnt have everything....but I can vouch he will get it
for you or tell you where you can...and he can answer your questions, or
give you phone numbers and names of people who can.

I like some of my local retailers.  They are nice people.  I want them
to stay in business....but I like the selection that Charles and
Marianne have, and I really like their prices.  They have offered me
great service, and have been open to any comment etc..

Also, Charles takes up for local retailers more than *anyone* that  I
know of.
Also Charles and Marianne have been more helpful with questions than
*any* glass retailer has ever been to me.  If they cant answer something
they can get you the answer or refer you to the person that will know.

Same goes for Albert for that matter (regarding information)  Both are
very generous people in my experience.

Btw, I like Meredith an awful lot too, but I didnt hear Jenna being
mentioned.
;o)

Tulsa Suzanne

-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Tue Jul  6 22:57:15 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Question..marketing
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 00:12:23 -0500
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Recently I got new better insurance..so Im getting all the health care
work done.  

Got a new potential client while waiting for my mammogram.
Got an order for 5 $45 crosses by the office girls in another clinic.
Tomorrow is my physical...think I will take some pics with me ;o)

I listen to tons of audio books in my workshop while working.  Take my
kids to the library frequently...we frequent our small neighborhood
library (I order inter-library loans online to be delivered there).

Im now wondering about how much would be involved to display a few
things at my neighborhood library?  Could be *way* too big of a hassle
if I have to go through the City/County, but if not, wow...cool
advertising.

Wonder if making a donation to the library with the request that my card
be within view....would do the same or better?

Anyone ever done this without it being a huge deal???

Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
----
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 00:56:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul6.195639.0>
References: <<1999Jul6.171121.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> Well I guess you can read anything you want into Mr. Warner's statements.  It did come off sounding anti-retailer though in my
> opinion.  You just rearranged his words Albert to make it sound innocent in that respect.  I do believe he said "Purchasing
> locally will greatly limit you to things that someone else approves (the store owner)."   


I believe what he said was "ONLY purchasing locally...."

Charles honestly does defend local retailers to his customers, much more
than most retailers would ever believe.  I know, because he has defended
them to me more times than I can count...when I didnt think I was
attacking anyone.

For someone like me with very little capitol...
with a 190 sq ft studio, I sell everything I make....but I cant order 
glass wholesale, I dont sell supplies....and I cant afford to be in
business buying from a local retailer.

W/C is the only option for someone like me.

Unfortunately, I want to do glass work, not retail work...so Im screwed
with the wholesalers so far as I can tell.

If glass is hobby only, and you want to spend your money locally, go for
it.  But if you need to make some money, you cant pay 3X more for
supplies.  It's that simple.  I dont know why that is so hard for people
to understand.

Im not an awful person or cheap, but *I* have to make a profit too.
If I pay retail prices for my supplies, my work will have to be over
priced, and no one will buy it.

 Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 00:28:36 1999
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X-Path: cros.net!soraya
From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Question..marketing
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:25:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul6.222514.0>
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>Im now wondering about how much would be involved to display a few
>things at my neighborhood library?  Could be *way* too big of a hassle
>if I have to go through the City/County, but if not, wow...cool
>advertising.
>
>Wonder if making a donation to the library with the request that my card
>be within view....would do the same or better?

I know the library here is always looking for interesting neat ideas for
displays....Is there such a thing as a Stained Glass Month? (the god's know
there is a 'month' for everything else!!)  if there is...bring it up to
Library board.....suggesting that several local SG artists display their
work....Also why not donate a few SG books to the library (the one here puts
a name plaque in the book....stating who donating it)

That way the library gets a few new books....and people are exposed to the
art of stained glass.

Do you have a local artist group?  I know here in Port Clinton we do and
several times a year they have a mini-show in the library.....many different
mediums are represented....

Take Care
Soraya

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 00:41:46 1999
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From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Just a comment...
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:38:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul6.223842.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BEC821.D382E740
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all....

I have been out surfing stained glass web sites and came across =
pre-cut...pre-foiled...pre-everything but soldered kits....which in my =
opinion takes away all the fun stuff of glass work and leaves one with =
what I hate the most....soldering....I love cutting glass,,,and am =
getting darn good at it, if I do say so myself...(minimal to no grinder =
use)...working on original designs....having a blast with the different =
glass types and colours.....but......

...I will admit that I am so awful at soldering that I am almost willing =
to pay someone to finish my projects for me....my SG retailer has been =
so patient...in fact he is going to let me borrow one of his more =
powerful soldering irons before I give up completely to see if this may =
help the problem....(not to mention he gets the sale if I purchase one =
of my own and it keeps me coming back for supplies!!  He's no dummy!!)

I guess I really don't need advise...I just wanted to vent to a group of =
people that may at least understand....urgh!!

Soraya


------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BEC821.D382E740
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi all....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have been out surfing stained glass web sites and =
came=20
across pre-cut...pre-foiled...pre-everything but soldered kits....which =
in my=20
opinion takes away all the fun stuff of glass work and leaves one with =
what I=20
hate the most....soldering....I love cutting glass,,,and am getting darn =
good at=20
it, if I do say so myself...(minimal to no grinder use)...working on =
original=20
designs....having a blast with the different glass types and=20
colours.....but......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>...I will admit that I am so awful at soldering that =
I am=20
almost willing to pay someone to finish my projects for me....my SG =
retailer has=20
been so patient...in fact he is going to let me borrow one of his more =
powerful=20
soldering irons&nbsp;before I give up completely to see if this may help =
the=20
problem....(not to mention he gets the sale if I purchase one of my own =
and it=20
keeps me coming back for supplies!!&nbsp; He's no dummy!!)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I guess I really don't need advise...I just wanted =
to vent to=20
a group of people that may at least understand....urgh!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Soraya</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BEC821.D382E740--

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 01:28:17 1999
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From: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 03:19:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul6.23195.0>
References: <<3782EC17.21C9AE8D@ix.netcom.com>>
Organization: Celestial Luminosities
Precedence: bulk



Suzanne Gunn wrote:

> I believe what he said was "ONLY purchasing locally...."

Well what he really said was "Purchasing locally only...."  but that's just semantics I suppose as it all means the same thing.  To
me the response was clearly not in defense of the local retailer.
I sympathize with your situation on the need to make money, but you're either in business or you're not.  If you're in business
legitimately then you can purchase materials wholesale.  What I can't understand is why some people feel they should be able to
purchase their glass supplies wholesale when they don't expect the same in other aspects of their lives....or maybe they do.
Retailers have a place in our economy.  If there were no retailers, how many people do you know  would be without employment?  Think
about it.  Is your income derived solely from the sale of stained glass products without any other source of financial support?  If
it is, then I'm afraid you won't realize a substantial wage to support yourself unless you do go into business and meet the
requirements to buy wholesale.  Unless you are content to sell your product without accounting for a reasonable fee for your time.
If that's the case, even then you wouldn't make a decent wage, you'd be working for nothing....not any better  than the slave labour
in China and elsewhere we've been reading posts on.
It is not my intent to argue with you on this issue Suzanne but rather to create dialogue which will hopefully develop a better
understanding of what's involved in making a living in this field.   There is a difference between making a living and making a few
extra bucks.  I look forward to other opinions on this matter.
Dayle

> Charles honestly does defend local retailers to his customers, much more
> than most retailers would ever believe.  I know, because he has defended
> them to me more times than I can count...when I didnt think I was
> attacking anyone.
>
> For someone like me with very little capitol...
> with a 190 sq ft studio, I sell everything I make....but I cant order
> glass wholesale, I dont sell supplies....and I cant afford to be in
> business buying from a local retailer.
>
> W/C is the only option for someone like me.
>
> Unfortunately, I want to do glass work, not retail work...so Im screwed
> with the wholesalers so far as I can tell.
>
> If glass is hobby only, and you want to spend your money locally, go for
> it.  But if you need to make some money, you cant pay 3X more for
> supplies.  It's that simple.  I dont know why that is so hard for people
> to understand.
>
> Im not an awful person or cheap, but *I* have to make a profit too.
> If I pay retail prices for my supplies, my work will have to be over
> priced, and no one will buy it.
>
>  Tulsa Suzanne
> --
> Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
>
>                                        ----Harvey MacKay



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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 01:57:09 1999
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X-Path: cros.net!soraya
From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Just a comment...
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 03:53:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul6.235353.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am so sorry that I did not change over my format before I sent this
out.....opps....here is my venting in a more readable way.....again...my
apologies!


Hi all....

I have been out surfing stained glass web sites and came across
pre-cut...pre-foiled...pre-everything but soldered kits....which in my
opinion takes away all the fun stuff of glass work and leaves one with what
I hate the most....soldering....I love cutting glass,,,and am getting darn
good at it, if I do say so myself...(minimal to no grinder use)...working on
original designs....having a blast with the different glass types and
colours.....but......

...I will admit that I am so awful at soldering that I am almost willing to
pay someone to finish my projects for me....my SG retailer has been so
patient...in fact he is going to let me borrow one of his more powerful
soldering irons before I give up completely to see if this may help the
problem....(not to mention he gets the sale if I purchase one of my own and
it keeps me coming back for supplies!!  He's no dummy!!)

I guess I really don't need advise...I just wanted to vent to a group of
people that may at least understand....urgh!!

Soraya


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 04:02:12 1999
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From: Rick <rwl50@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: suggest a color please?
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1999Jul6.195713.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have been asked to make some Winnie the Pooh
suncatchers, or window hangings if you will and having
a difficult time finding a color (orange/yellow) for
the body. I used a colloring book I found at Walmart
for the pattern and it worked out great, but driving
me crazy on the glass. Any ideas anyone?  Charles?

Thanks, Rick

===
http://home.fuse.net/crafts

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 04:32:10 1999
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X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass
From: "K See" <kseeglass@netzero.net>
To: "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 06:37:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.23743.0>
References: <<1999Jul6.184257.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne said:
snips
| I'd like to live long enough to learn all Albert knows about glass.
|
| Nope, Charles doesnt have everything....but I can vouch he will get it
| for you or tell you where you can...and he can answer your questions, or
| give you phone numbers and names of people who can.

| I like some of my local retailers.  They are nice people.  I want them
| to stay in business....|

if they cant answer something
| they can get you the answer or refer you to the person that will know.
|
| Same goes for Albert for that matter (regarding information)  Both are
| very generous people in my experience.
|
| Btw, I like Meredith an awful lot too,

Well said,  Suzanne

The knowledge that Albert has about glass is extroidinary. He is always
there to help and share and I for one appreciate it!

I am very lucky that Meredith's is one of my local retailers and their
prices are about the same as W/C on most items. Can't beat the service.
Unfortunatly, I have not met Jenna face to face but have met her Mom and
Dad! Great people and talented to boot.

 KSee

"Art is the only way to run away without leaving home"
Twyla Tharp




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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 04:41:42 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: buying wholesale
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 06:48:07 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.2487.0>
References: <<1999Jul6.195639.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I am interested in this thread for many reasons. One is that my friend was
told that in order to buy wholesale from Spectrum, for examply, one not only
had to have an occupational license, but proof that stained glass is the
major business. What does one do who makes stained glass to sell, but does
it as an adjunct to another business? In her case, her husband renovates
homes and she makes stained glass for the clients. Spectrum said she should
ask her local retailer for a break, but that doesn't sound like the only
answer.
Any ideas?
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
me to wait.
 Thanks... Mary
----- Original Message -----
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker


> > Well I guess you can read anything you want into Mr. Warner's
statements.  It did come off sounding anti-retailer though in my
> > opinion.  You just rearranged his words Albert to make it sound innocent
in that respect.  I do believe he said "Purchasing
> > locally will greatly limit you to things that someone else approves (the
store owner)."
>
>
> I believe what he said was "ONLY purchasing locally...."
>
> Charles honestly does defend local retailers to his customers, much more
> than most retailers would ever believe.  I know, because he has defended
> them to me more times than I can count...when I didnt think I was
> attacking anyone.
>
> For someone like me with very little capitol...
> with a 190 sq ft studio, I sell everything I make....but I cant order
> glass wholesale, I dont sell supplies....and I cant afford to be in
> business buying from a local retailer.
>
> W/C is the only option for someone like me.
>
> Unfortunately, I want to do glass work, not retail work...so Im screwed
> with the wholesalers so far as I can tell.
>
> If glass is hobby only, and you want to spend your money locally, go for
> it.  But if you need to make some money, you cant pay 3X more for
> supplies.  It's that simple.  I dont know why that is so hard for people
> to understand.
>
> Im not an awful person or cheap, but *I* have to make a profit too.
> If I pay retail prices for my supplies, my work will have to be over
> priced, and no one will buy it.
>
>  Tulsa Suzanne
> --
> Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
>
>                                        ----Harvey MacKay
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 05:04:02 1999
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X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass
From: "K See" <kseeglass@netzero.net>
To: "Dayle" <dayle@cyberbeach.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 06:57:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.25716.0>
References: <<1999Jul6.23195.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I love glass! for a liquid ;-)) you can do so much with it.

I started making stained glass for gifts. Using patterns. Then received
requests to make gifts for sale. Then I make a box for a wedding present,
without a pattern, and my friend couldn't buy it because she wouldn't at the
family rate. She didn't want to give it away, she wanted to keep it for
herself. She gave me the courage to show it to others. It sold in a local
"art gallery" along with many others. I figured out prices that more than
cover the cost of materials. My time is priceless and I guess you can say I
work for slave wages. But I am going to work in SG anyway!! So why not sell
it if I can. I do not want to be a retailer, I want to be an "glass artist"

KSee

"Art is the only way to run away without leaving home"
Twyla Tharp
----- Original Message -----
From: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>
To: <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker


|
|
| Suzanne Gunn wrote:
|
| > I believe what he said was "ONLY purchasing locally...."
|
| Well what he really said was "Purchasing locally only...."  but that's
just semantics I suppose as it all means the same thing.  To
| me the response was clearly not in defense of the local retailer.
| I sympathize with your situation on the need to make money, but you're
either in business or you're not.  If you're in business
| legitimately then you can purchase materials wholesale.  What I can't
understand is why some people feel they should be able to
| purchase their glass supplies wholesale when they don't expect the same in
other aspects of their lives....or maybe they do.
| Retailers have a place in our economy.  If there were no retailers, how
many people do you know  would be without employment?  Think
| about it.  Is your income derived solely from the sale of stained glass
products without any other source of financial support?  If
| it is, then I'm afraid you won't realize a substantial wage to support
yourself unless you do go into business and meet the
| requirements to buy wholesale.  Unless you are content to sell your
product without accounting for a reasonable fee for your time.
| If that's the case, even then you wouldn't make a decent wage, you'd be
working for nothing....not any better  than the slave labour
| in China and elsewhere we've been reading posts on.
| It is not my intent to argue with you on this issue Suzanne but rather to
create dialogue which will hopefully develop a better
| understanding of what's involved in making a living in this field.   There
is a difference between making a living and making a few
| extra bucks.  I look forward to other opinions on this matter.
| Dayle
|
| > Charles honestly does defend local retailers to his customers, much more
| > than most retailers would ever believe.  I know, because he has defended
| > them to me more times than I can count...when I didnt think I was
| > attacking anyone.
| >
| > For someone like me with very little capitol...
| > with a 190 sq ft studio, I sell everything I make....but I cant order
| > glass wholesale, I dont sell supplies....and I cant afford to be in
| > business buying from a local retailer.
| >
| > W/C is the only option for someone like me.
| >
| > Unfortunately, I want to do glass work, not retail work...so Im screwed
| > with the wholesalers so far as I can tell.
| >
| > If glass is hobby only, and you want to spend your money locally, go for
| > it.  But if you need to make some money, you cant pay 3X more for
| > supplies.  It's that simple.  I dont know why that is so hard for people
| > to understand.
| >
| > Im not an awful person or cheap, but *I* have to make a profit too.
| > If I pay retail prices for my supplies, my work will have to be over
| > priced, and no one will buy it.
| >
| >  Tulsa Suzanne
| > --
| > Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
| >
| >                                        ----Harvey MacKay
|
|
|
| ----
| For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
| To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
| Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
|

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 06:29:52 1999
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From: "Charles R. Clark" <dwood@sky.net>
To: Mary <embee@mediaone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 07:36:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.2364.0>
References: <<1999Jul7.2487.0>>
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Mary wrote:
> 
> I am interested in this thread for many reasons. One is that my friend was
> told that in order to buy wholesale from Spectrum,

Why? Why? Why, would one use spectrum when we can have Uroborus, Chicago
and others of that type?
David
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 07:30:27 1999
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From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: warn the fire dept!
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:10:41 -0400 
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.51041.0>
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Suzanne

Can I interest you in a couple of fire extinguishers or some flameproof
children's clothing?

Vic M.

PS Do NOT wear jewelry while operating the torch.


		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com]
		Sent:	Tuesday, July 06, 1999 4:20 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	warn the fire dept!

		The torch came today!!!!! :o)
		Oh, what a fun mail day for me!  New birkenstocks, IGGA new
member pack,
		and a torch!  Yeeeha.  Life is good.  Better sell something
to pay the
		Visa bill. ;o)

		Gotta match?  Watch out, I could be dangerous! ;o)
		T Suz
		-- 
		
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 08:03:59 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 08:57:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.35736.0>
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Dayle wrote:
> 
> Suzanne Gunn wrote:
> 
> > I believe what he said was "ONLY purchasing locally...."
> 
> Well what he really said was "Purchasing locally only...."  but that's just semantics I suppose as it all means the same thing.  To
> me the response was clearly not in defense of the local retailer.
> I sympathize with your situation on the need to make money, but you're either in business or you're not.  If you're in business
> legitimately then you can purchase materials wholesale. 

How do you define legitimately?  I pay taxes on my income, does that
make me legit in your eyes?  

 What I can't understand is why some people feel they should be able to
> purchase their glass supplies wholesale when they don't expect the same in other aspects of their lives....or maybe they do.

What does that mean?  How do you know what I expect in other aspects of
my life????  Have we met? ;o)

> Retailers have a place in our economy.  If there were no retailers, how many people do you know  would be without employment? 

I never said I wish they'd disapear.  I dont know anyone that makes
clothing that pays retail for their fabric.  

 Think
> about it.  Is your income derived solely from the sale of stained glass products without any other source of financial support?  

What does that matter to anyone?  A lot of people have more than one job
to survive.  I know when I was a Social Worker, I couldnt get by on that
income alone.  I held another full time job as well.

If
> it is, then I'm afraid you won't realize a substantial wage to support yourself unless you do go into business and meet the
> requirements to buy wholesale.  Unless you are content to sell your product without accounting for a reasonable fee for your time.
> If that's the case, even then you wouldn't make a decent wage, you'd be working for nothing....not any better  than the slave labour
> in China and elsewhere we've been reading posts on.
> It is not my intent to argue with you on this issue Suzanne but rather to create dialogue which will hopefully develop a better
> understanding of what's involved in making a living in this field.   

I make a larger hourly wage than I did as a social worker.

Apparently, what is involved to make a living in this field is to
sell supplies and try to keep anyone that does stained glass content 
to only make a few *extra bucks, or remain a hobbiest.

I dont expect retailers to stop being retailers.  I only defend that I 
buy my supplies from a variety of places.  Local retailers arent the be
all and end all of service and information.

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 08:29:54 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: K See <kseeglass@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 08:59:29 -0500
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> I am very lucky that Meredith's is one of my local retailers and their
> prices are about the same as W/C on most items. Can't beat the service.
> Unfortunatly, I have not met Jenna face to face but have met her Mom and
> Dad! Great people and talented to boot.
> 
>  KSee


I agree, KSee.  Im really looking forward to visiting and meeting them
in August! ;o)  And you too for that matter! ;o)

Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 08:31:54 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Charles R. Clark" <dwood@sky.net>
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:08:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.6836.0>
References: <<378349B4.69B37470@sky.net>>
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I just used Spectrum as an example. Now I have it clear.. they're
distributors, and to buy for resale, we go to the "next middle man", the
wholesale/retail suppliers. I will check locally first to see if that's
possible, and if not, then get busy writing and calling the suppliers.
Thanks to all for the info!

I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
me to wait.
 Thanks... Mary
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles R. Clark <dwood@sky.net>
To: Mary <embee@mediaone.net>
Cc: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: buying wholesale


>
>
> Mary wrote:
> >
> > I am interested in this thread for many reasons. One is that my friend
was
> > told that in order to buy wholesale from Spectrum,
>
> Why? Why? Why, would one use spectrum when we can have Uroborus, Chicago
> and others of that type?
> David
>


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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 08:52:52 1999
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To: kaye@gsa-orsp.crown.nwu.edu, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Misc.
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:37:02 EDT
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Hi Kaye,

I hope the message you are sending about retailers hits home with everyone. 
While I don't sell glass and supplies, and I qualify in all respects to buy 
wholesale, I found myself in the past month, spending quite a sum of money 
with my retailer, who by the way, is thirty miles distant.

Did I do this because I want to give away money? Hardly

I bought the glass for two large commissioned panels from him, because I 
wanted his input on the design (which he would have given me anyway), I 
wanted it now, and I want him around in the future, especially if I run out 
of something in the middle of a job, or happen to break that last piece. 

In other words, I get value from our relationship.

My wife does needlework as a hobby, and slowly, all of the little shops where 
she used to go for patterns, and supplies, are gone. Sure, she can go to 
Michael's, but don't ask any of those eighteen - year olds anything. They 
haven't a clue.

 Sadly, after years of doing beautiful pieces (I think it's counted cross 
stitch) I've begun to notice she does less and less of it. I'm sure it's 
because she's lost the "connection" to the art. 

I think all of us, hobby or business, should take heed, and if possible, help 
your retailer
to be there for you, by supporting them. The mail order SG outfits are super. 
The two I've bought from are just great. And since one of them, imho, gives 
back a lot to the craft/art of glass, they too, need your support. I've tried 
to balance my purchases, so all will be there in the future.

Bottom line, there's no free lunch.
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 09:00:05 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: warn the fire dept!
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 10:02:26 -0500
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Thanks Vic.
Probably wouldnt be a bad idea.  Send your catalog! ;o)
Thanks for the jewelry warning! Guess hairspray isnt the best
idea either! ;o)

Suzanne
giving new meaning to "getting flamed"

"Modiano, Victor" wrote:
> 
> Suzanne
> 
> Can I interest you in a couple of fire extinguishers or some flameproof
> children's clothing?
> 
> Vic M.
> 
> PS Do NOT wear jewelry while operating the torch.
> 
>                 -----Original Message-----
>                 From:   Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com]
>                 Sent:   Tuesday, July 06, 1999 4:20 PM
>                 To:     glass@bungi.com
>                 Subject:        warn the fire dept!
> 
>                 The torch came today!!!!! :o)
>                 Oh, what a fun mail day for me!  New birkenstocks, IGGA new
> member pack,
>                 and a torch!  Yeeeha.  Life is good.  Better sell something
> to pay the
>                 Visa bill. ;o)
> 
>                 Gotta match?  Watch out, I could be dangerous! ;o)
>                 T Suz
>                 --
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 09:23:54 1999
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Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:12:22 EDT
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Hi Mary,

Again, thanks for a good topic to discuss.

Since I've recently done this exercise, I'll be glad to pass along my 
thoughts. Also, I replied to "Misc" a few minutes ago, and forgot to "sign" 
the post, but some of my feelings on this subject, are shared there, too.

First, dealing "direct", or with some wholesalers ( the one closest to me is 
a real pain in the a - - .) , is not a warm and fuzzy experience. For the 
most part, its slam bam, thank you mam! The local wholesaler made it so hard 
to deal with them, that I changed my original plan to open a retail store / 
studio, to just opening a studio.

 Why, well for one thing, I wanted to get the benefit of knowing what sells, 
in this area, knowing approx. how many dollars I needed to commit to 
inventory (probably, $35,000 or so, I later found out), and I wanted the 
general kind of help I'd come to expect from wholesalers/ distributors, in 
other businesses. Not here!

Via phone, I couldn't even get through to speak to anyone. I explained to the 
twinkie who answered the phone, that I was opening a retail store, planned to 
spend $35-45,000 in one fell swoop, had a resale #, and a business location, 
but she REFUSED to put me through to anyone.(BTW, I had the cash in hand for 
the purchase- I felt like the proverbial man who walks into the house of ill 
repute with a fist full of hundred dollar bills, and is ignored) I wrote 
them, and was still ignored.

 I started to get in the car to drive there, and I thought "wait, what are 
you doing here"--Like Patrick said in an earlier post, if you won't treat me 
with respect, you can't have my money. And no matter how well I thought the 
store would have done, (none for 30 miles) I wasn't going to kiss anyone's a 
- -, in order to give them my money. 

As I feel having a wholesaler available for immediate needs was key to being 
able to compete effectively, I abandoned the idea . The wholesaler screwed 
themselves out of probably $150,000.00 worth of sales, in just the first 
year, because of their attitude.

Why, unless it made a huge difference, would your friend want to deal with 
the factory, or a wholesaler. Does she have the ability to receive a 700 lb 
glass shipment? Does she want to sit around waiting for freight deliveries? 

Especially if she has a built in market for her work, why put up with all the 
crap?

Just a few "mind droppings"

Richard
Glassics Artglass Studio
Valencia, CA
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 09:35:10 1999
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From: Beadnik3@webtv.net (J B)
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com (Suzanne Gunn)
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Question..marketing
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:26:21 -0400 (EDT)
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Suzanne wondered:

>Im now wondering about how much would
>be involved to display a few things at my
>neighborhood library?

Suzanne....

Around here the libraries are usually thrilled to be able to display the
work of local artisans.  Does the library have any type of showcases???
I would simply ask to speak with the head librarian and find out what is
involved.  I doubt seriously it would be much of a hassle.

To get more "bang for your buck", so to speak, you might want to wait
until the fall, when gift buying season (aka silly season) starts for
real!

Good luck, and let us know how you make out!

Joan

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 09:57:26 1999
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Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 08:37:01 -0700
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Susan Perchelli wrote:

> Purchasing anything from anybody anywhere limits you to
> what they have
> in stock. Duh! Evn Mr. Warner doesn't carry everything!
> Also note that
> Charles is speaking as a mail order company as well. Pray
> tell Albert,
> what stained glass retail experience do you have? What
> stained glass
> experience do you have at all?
>
Susan,

You just questioned Mr. Lewis' "credentials" ... not merely
his right to have his opinion.

Now, Albert Lewis' "credentials" are well-established, at
least to many people on this list.  He's a good (even
excellent) writer and knows quite a bit about glass, stained
glass, glass as an artistic medium, and art in general ....
all the above are evidenced by the large number of
well-written posts on a variety of glass and glass-related
subjects that he's written to this list.  He is the prime
mover of the IGAA.  He knows a LOT of people in the glass
biz.  He's a very helpful fellow (seems like a pretty nice
guy to me anyway), and has done a good deal for the on-line
glass community.  In general, Mr. Lewis is a very
intelligent, likeable, and erudite man even though he and I
disagree on a number of topics ... agreement is not a
condition for recognition of quality.

Looking over YOUR posts (15 in my "archives"), I see you are
a rather confrontational type of person.  Further, I see
little in those 15 posts to indicate you know much about
stained glass, and nothing at all to indicate you know
anything about stained glass retailing.  Moreover, most of
what I saw in your posts are caustic one-liners.  So, I say
a better question is : what do YOU know about retailing in
the glass biz?  And what do YOU know about stained glass "at
all"?  YOU are the one whose credentials need to be
established here on this list ... not Mr. Lewis.  You may
know quite a bit, but you haven't shown that HERE ...
certainly not on the subjects in question.

If I were standing in your shoes ... I'd also spend some
time learning a little about polite phrasing.  This may be
the internet ... but its a very small world.  This is not a
threat ... just a statement of fact.

Bob



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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 10:11:33 1999
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From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Buying wholesale
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:41:37 -0700
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>>. Spectrum said she should ask her local retailer for a break, but that
doesn't sound like the only answer. Any ideas?<<

It is my understanding that Spectrum sells to glass wholesalers and they in
turn sell to retailers. Spectrum sells by the full unmixed case only and
most wholesalers sell by the whole or half sheet of glass. A retailer will
break the sheet down into sizes that suit the retail customer.

Your local retailer surely gets their glass from a wholesaler and if you are
in business you can too. If you need a large volume of glass most retailers
will be glad to work with you. If you can give them notice of your needs
they may be able to tack your requirements onto their normal order and give
you a discount.

I am a small retailer. I am continually approached to sell at wholesale to
people that want to buy a bit of this and a small piece of that. One guy
from a neighboring state wanted a discount on a total purchase of a $1.40
bottle of cutting oil! With enough customers like that I could go out of
business. I politely say no and sometimes get their business anyway. As my
main income is custom work I see no need to give an unfair advantage to my
competation. My main wholesalers have minimum purchase requirements and
methods of payment that I must meet rather it is convient to me or not.
.............................. Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out:
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/bob/indexpage1.htm

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 10:25:48 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 08:52:22 -0700
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Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
This thread is near and dear to my heart also.
What difference does it make if you are earning your total living at SG,
or just supplementing your income?
I am disabled.  This is not my major source of income, but I can't live
on my disability.  I need to make more money.  I can't work outside of
the home. So I do craft shows. I seriously do craft shows! About 14 a
year. You are all familiar with the amount of product I make to cover
that many craft shows.  And yes I am making slave wages. I like Suzanne,
must get my supplies at wholesale prices, or there is no profit at all.
Show fees are going up. Travel expenses go up. Wear and tear on my
vechiles.  I have overhead!!!!!!
Why are we not accepted?  I understand I don't have a store and
employees to pay for, but I also don't have the ability to make that
amount of money.  Why can't wholesalers take that into account?  Why not
let the hobbist turned craftsman in to the wholesale game?  I should
think if a person had, say 3 retailer, selling their product and they
did 6 craft shows a year, that would be an acceptible business.  Has
America gotten so greedy, that only if you make $1000's a month, you are
considered a business?
I can see, where this could be a nightmare for the wholesaler.  Any Tom
Dick or Harry could say they do craft shows.  But, if they would just
take away the picture of the store front and the yellow page ad as a
requirement, then I know I could prove a business.
What do we have to do, to get the wholesaler to sell to us???????
Shirley B

Mary wrote:
> 
> I am interested in this thread for many reasons. One is that my friend was
> told that in order to buy wholesale from Spectrum, for examply, one not only
> had to have an occupational license, but proof that stained glass is the
> major business. What does one do who makes stained glass to sell, but does
> it as an adjunct to another business? In her case, her husband renovates
> homes and she makes stained glass for the clients. Spectrum said she should
> ask her local retailer for a break, but that doesn't sound like the only
> answer.
> Any ideas?
> I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
> me to wait.
>  Thanks... Mary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> To: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>; <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 1:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
> 
> > > Well I guess you can read anything you want into Mr. Warner's
> statements.  It did come off sounding anti-retailer though in my
> > > opinion.  You just rearranged his words Albert to make it sound innocent
> in that respect.  I do believe he said "Purchasing
> > > locally will greatly limit you to things that someone else approves (the
> store owner)."
> >
> >
> > I believe what he said was "ONLY purchasing locally...."
> >
> > Charles honestly does defend local retailers to his customers, much more
> > than most retailers would ever believe.  I know, because he has defended
> > them to me more times than I can count...when I didnt think I was
> > attacking anyone.
> >
> > For someone like me with very little capitol...
> > with a 190 sq ft studio, I sell everything I make....but I cant order
> > glass wholesale, I dont sell supplies....and I cant afford to be in
> > business buying from a local retailer.
> >
> > W/C is the only option for someone like me.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I want to do glass work, not retail work...so Im screwed
> > with the wholesalers so far as I can tell.
> >
> > If glass is hobby only, and you want to spend your money locally, go for
> > it.  But if you need to make some money, you cant pay 3X more for
> > supplies.  It's that simple.  I dont know why that is so hard for people
> > to understand.
> >
> > Im not an awful person or cheap, but *I* have to make a profit too.
> > If I pay retail prices for my supplies, my work will have to be over
> > priced, and no one will buy it.
> >
> >  Tulsa Suzanne
> > --
> > Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
> >
> >                                        ----Harvey MacKay
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> 
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 10:29:19 1999
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From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Question..marketing
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:03:36 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990707120335.009307d0@pop.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk

I did a local library show a few years ago.  No sales, but a great way to
educate. 
The display was start to finish on a small panel...cartoon, sheet glass,
tools, sheet with layout and cut pieces  to end finished polished piece.
The payoff moment came at local crafts fair long after when someone spoke
knowingly about the 'art'...she'd learned about it at the local library!
(She also bought a small panel)
 
I asked the librarian not only to select stained glass books to lend, but
also on on color, and several on simple line drawing. 



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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 10:42:36 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: glass
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 08:55:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.15531.0>
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What is Chicago?
Shirley B


Charles R. Clark wrote:
> 
> Mary wrote:
> >
> > I am interested in this thread for many reasons. One is that my friend was
> > told that in order to buy wholesale from Spectrum,
> 
> Why? Why? Why, would one use spectrum when we can have Uroborus, Chicago
> and others of that type?
> David
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 10:47:40 1999
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From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:56:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.15641.0>
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>> Why? Why? Why, would one use spectrum when we can have Uroborus, Chicago
and others of that type?
David<<

Because Spectrum is easier to cut, has a wider variety of glass, costs less
and is more widely available. Also, in general, Spectrums line is lighter in
tone and considered by many superior for many applications. Ubro and CAC do
make some rather nice lamp glasses though. .....................Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out:
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/bob/indexpage1.htm

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 10:56:27 1999
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Diamond Tech
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 09:30:30 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.23030.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
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Help,
I have a Diamond Laser 1000 glass saw.  It is old and needs repair.  I
emailed Diamond Tech twice and have yet to get an answer.  How do you
contact this company?  And do they repair their equipment when the
warranty has run out?
Thanks in advance.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 11:40:41 1999
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: retailers/and a ramble!
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:53:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.3531.0>
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I, over the past years have taught, sold supplies, produced shades, sold
shades both in volume and for individuals and in general made my skills
available without remuneration and thought to time given to most people. For
my students, I would get most anything they needed, and tried to dissuade
them from "fad" buying.
I would try most products before touting them as the "best" item since
sliced bread.
A few "hot-shots" would come by to pick my brain (slim pickings at times)
and condescend to buy a little something, usually after telling me they
could not find it elswhere...what an approach. Another gem is to tell me
they could buy it cheaper from a mail-order "pseudo wholesaler" (you know
who you are) and ask me to MATCH the price. In most cases they also failed
to point out the shipping charge.....I never added that in to the SMRP I
charged.
One super pain, used to wheel and deal (I have a lot of years as a
"door-to-door salesman) and chisel as much as possible from me. Last time we
crossed paths was on a purchase of a grinder I had in stock......he showed
me all the "catalog" prices....I did add freight into the price we settled
on, and took a check. He went to remove the grinder from my shop......NO NO
NO! I asked him to come back in about 8 days to pick it up. Why should I
have to match all the other criteria and still let him have it NOW......I
asked him if he wanted OVERNIGHT delivery (extra of course). Lost a customer
who took up more time than he was worth.
My shade making time is worth a LOT MORE than I can make teaching, awaiting
a retail customer, I need not stock very many items, and I have FULL control
over my time.
I taught for the enjoyment of it. To see a first-timer who has been warned
all of their life to "stay away from glass" make a score and break a piece
of glass where they wanted it to happen is indeed neat!
Because I had been teaching primarily shades, early on I usually pointed out
that this in an expensive hobby, and if you have have to count your pennies,
perhaps you should be weaving beach grass instead (around here it cheap and
plentiful).
I still keep an extensive of odd-ball lamp accessories, YES you can get vase
caps in .125 increments......some many adapters that I can bush from 8/32 to
at least one inch.
Some of my students still stop by to "visit" and or buy that ONE sheet of
glass they cannot live without.
Enough for now.....I have to start soldering the inside of a SOLD 22"
nasturtium.
enjoy, H




weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 12:12:02 1999
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X-Path: warner-criv.com!charles
From: "Charles Warner" <charles@warner-criv.com>
To: "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:19:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.101952.0>
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Dani:

>Charles is a retailer, too - and as far as I can tell
>he's the apex of service to everyone... the guy
>oughta write a book on good retailing.  There
>are lots of folks out there who could learn a thing
>or two from him.

Thanks for the suggestion, we didn't write a book but we were
honored last year when we came out on top in an independent
survey of Customer Service.  Consequently, our Operations
Manager, Chris Brandt was asked to give a seminar on Customer
Service at the AGSA  Long Beach Convention.  In preparation for
the 4-hour seminar Chris studied and analyzed our processes
which caused us to become even better.  This seminar was a big
boost to our own customer service as well as it was for the
participants.


ON A SEPARATE ISSUE:
Obviously, I've made a couple of comments that have inflamed a
couple of you out there and I'd like to take this opportunity to clarify
a few things.

Here's what I said in a private e-mail to Sue:

"Purchasing locally only, will greatly limit you to things that someone else
approves (the store owner).  Our greatest difficulty as product designers,
importers and wholesalers is the mindset of retail store owners.  For the
most part retailers do not want to carry anything that is new and do not
have the working capitol to fully stock a store."

While you're heating up your flame-throwers again, let me explain a little
more fully than I had done.

What I meant by saying when purchasing locally you are limited to things
the store owner's approve is quite simply that they pick their inventory.
They
use their best judgement and opinions as to what their customers will
buy.  If they feel suncatchers won't sell, they won't stock them (I know,
because
at one point I had done that).  It makes perfect business sense, but leads
into
my next statement.

The mindset of retail store owners (that they choose what they stock) is
also such
that they don't want to carry new products.  This goes back to the fact that
they are
often working on a tight budgets and are afraid to risk trying a new
product.  As
many of you know, investing money in inventory is a major expense and if a
product doesn't sell, you lose money.  It's because of this that retail
stores often
wait until a product is successful before carrying it.

The irony of the situation is that new products won't be successful if the
craftspeople
aren't exposed to it.

I hope I made a little more sense this time.  I'm still getting fitted for
my asbestos suit,
but I'd be happy to clarify anything I missed.

Charles Warner
Warner-Crivellaro
http://www.warner-criv.com/

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 12:28:37 1999
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Shirley Balloch" <balloch@netbridge.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass/what is chicago?
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:06:56 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.4656.0>
Precedence: bulk

why buy a Cadillac when you can a Yugo?
same for glass!
Each glass a purpose it more suited for......Would you buy cathedral or gna
glass for a  Tiffany styled lamp......I sure hope not! Because of crappy
workmanship, and using the cheapest glass available (perhaps Spectrum,
Armstrong and Wissmach not picking on them, just pointing out the "cost")
the imported shades still stand out! May it stay that way!
Chicago is a company that makes glass and jewels and other stuff.....They
are located in Wisconsin, hence the name CHICAGO!
Actually there is a bit more history involved, but I will not pass it on.
enjoy, H


weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 12:42:52 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:56:47 -0400
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Message text written by Dayle
>As a retailer,
I take offence to these statements as they seem to suggest that buying
from your local retailer is not in your best interest.<

As with almost anything in life, it always depends on the individual
retailer.  We have two retailers in my town.  One will bend over
backwards for any person who walks in the door.... the other is
a Royal Jerk and will scalp the public any chance they get.  Guess
which one is making big bucks - hint: the first is closing their =

retail operation.  Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, "The
gods make no exceptions for good motives.....".

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 12:59:21 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:56:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.105649.0>
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Message text written by Suzanne Gunn
>
Btw, I like Meredith an awful lot too, but I didnt hear Jenna being
mentioned.<

Jenna is a peach, too.  But, like Charles, they are probably so
busy providing service to customers, they don't have much
time to yack on bungi!  Me, too.... gotta run.... so many windows
to build!

Best to all,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 13:14:19 1999
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From: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Question..marketing
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:05:45 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.5545.0>
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Suzanne Gunn wrote:

> Recently I got new better insurance..so Im getting all the health care
> work done.
>
> Got a new potential client while waiting for my mammogram.
> Got an order for 5 $45 crosses by the office girls in another clinic.
> Tomorrow is my physical...think I will take some pics with me ;o)
>
> I listen to tons of audio books in my workshop while working.  Take my
> kids to the library frequently...we frequent our small neighborhood
> library (I order inter-library loans online to be delivered there).
>
> Im now wondering about how much would be involved to display a few
> things at my neighborhood library?  Could be *way* too big of a hassle
> if I have to go through the City/County, but if not, wow...cool
> advertising.
>
> Wonder if making a donation to the library with the request that my card
> be within view....would do the same or better?
>
> Anyone ever done this without it being a huge deal???

Suzanne,

This is a cautionary note about expectations.  I'm strongly considering
doing something similar but I don't expect to get much (if anything) out of
it in terms of return on investment.  Let me explain.

Son #2 (#3 of 4) is one of those "special kids".  His teachers have helped
him enormously over the last 18 months since he started in this special
program.  He's changing schools next September and going into a "normal"
class.  He's kinda sorta one of their success stories though he really only
had "language delay" and some behavioral problems (too sensitive and
emotional for his own good) and not really handicapped.

[Aside : Unless you have been in a similar situation as a parent, you can't
POSSIBLY imagine the relief we feel.  I worked with severely handicapped
people for the better part of a decade on a volunteer basis.  Some of them
are people with deformities so severe they're not even in the medical
textbooks.  I know because I looked and I was trained in a related field so
I have access to such books.  Before my own kid developed problems, I
thought I could imagine how those parents felt ... but I was wrong ... no
one can imagine how the parents of a "special kid" feels, you have to
experience it.  In a way its like the old analogy of virgins and sex. <G>]

I'm planning on giving the school a sg panel.  I can see it perfectly in my
mind ... a tiffany-esque picture (quite a style departure from my usual
designs, I'll probably get my Dad, an artist of exceptional ability, to
design it for me) of a boy kneeling on the grass in front of a bush looking
at a butterfly flying away, with an empty chrysalis on one of the branches
of the bush.  This is not an investment but a donation, a thank you, and
hopefully an inspiration to the special ed teachers in the future because I
*know* how trying these little people can be.  A reminder that some of these
kids will turn out ok in the end ... albeit with a lot of work and even more
patience.  Still, I'll still attach a brass plaque to it with  my web
address and so on.  Maybe I'll get something out of it ... who knows?
However,  I *expect* zero to very little return though I will try to write
it off my taxes.

The point here is : most donations to good causes, or gifts to public
institutions, or churches, etc etc etc ... bring in zero to very little for
the amount given ... except for goodwill.  So don't expect too much in the
sense of direct return for investment because there probably won't be any,
or very little.  When people want to buy a piece of sg, they usually go
about it in a different way.  I doubt many will say to themselves "I want to
get a sg panel and maybe the person who did that piece in the library can do
one for me."  Instead most will go to their local SG place, or an art/craft
show, or something along those lines.

Instead, you should give something to the library that you frequent for
non-financial reasons and then be pleasantly surprised when/if you get an
order or two out of it.

Anyway ....... gotta keep movin' ...... Bob


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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 13:44:42 1999
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From: wright <the_wright_light@go.com>
To: soraya@cros.net, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Re: Question..marketing
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:58:13 -0700 (PDT)
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In Michigan April is stained glass month. I
don,t know if that is all over.

Maggie
the_wright_light@go.com






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This thread has been lively and interesting, but I can't help but 
grin to myself each time the subject line (above) appears!  Thanks 
guys, I needed some grins today....

Kaye 
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 14:42:29 1999
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From: Beadnik3@webtv.net (J B)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 16:41:32 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.124132.0>
References: <<charles@warner-criv.com>>
Precedence: bulk

I definitely concur with what Charles Warner wrote.

I would be more than willing to purchase some of my supplies from a
local retailer.... unfortunately, I do not have any large retailers
anywhere near me. (And, no, I don't even live in the boonies.... I live
just north of New Haven, CT).  The few small studios, who sell some
supplies on the side, do not stock the type of glass I need (fusible
and/or dichroic).  They tell me they will order it for me.  Well, I can
order it for me too, and at a fraction of their price.  The main
advantages of buying from a local retailer for me, would be to have
something IMMEDIATELY, and to be able to see it before I buy it.
Neither of these options are available if they have to order it.

Joan
Beadnik Jewelry Creations
Connecticut

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 14:55:26 1999
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Subject: Re: warn the fire dept!
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:43:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.124329.0>
References: <<1999Jul7.624.0>>
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> From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
>
> >The torch came today!!!!! :o)
> ...
>
> >Gotta match?  Watch out, I could be dangerous! ;o)
>

Who needs a match? You coulda just stood outside these last few days in the
Northeast.  Yesterday, in fact, on the news, I saw a fire department hosing
down big propane tanks to keep them cool.

Oddly enough, I haven't felt much like soldering the past few days.  Had to
replace the fan on my computer because the old one wasn't up to the task of
keeping the CPU cool now that summer's here, so I wasn't designing anything,
either, including the Art Deco fashion plate.

Maybe I'll start tonight....

Dorothy



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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 15:40:33 1999
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From: "K See" <kseeglass@netzero.net>
To: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: warn the fire dept!
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:16:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.131652.0>
References: <<1999Jul7.51041.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I recently made a paperweight. I asked beforehand if I should take my rings
off. I was told I didn't have to. Well, I wear a silver ring on my pointer
finger, right hand. When the gaffer had his back turned I slipped the ring
into my bra. When I got home I had a minor burn. Silver is a good conductor
of heat and I found out the hard way.

Also, only wear 100% cotton when working with hot glass, but the experts of
hot glass know better than me.

KSee

"Art is the only way to run away without leaving home"
Twyla Tharp
----- Original Message -----
From: Modiano, Victor <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: warn the fire dept!


| Suzanne
|
| Can I interest you in a couple of fire extinguishers or some flameproof
| children's clothing?
|
| Vic M.
|
| PS Do NOT wear jewelry while operating the torch.
|
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com]
| Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 4:20 PM
| To: glass@bungi.com
| Subject: warn the fire dept!
|
| The torch came today!!!!! :o)
| Oh, what a fun mail day for me!  New birkenstocks, IGGA new
| member pack,
| and a torch!  Yeeeha.  Life is good.  Better sell something
| to pay the
| Visa bill. ;o)
|
| Gotta match?  Watch out, I could be dangerous! ;o)
| T Suz
| --
|
| ----
| For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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| Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
|

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 15:53:08 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Shirley Balloch" <balloch@netbridge.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Diamond Tech
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:43:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.13435.0>
References: <<1999Jul7.23030.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and venture a guess that it's probably
because Bonnie Heath no longer is employed by Diamond Tech. This girl was a
tremendous asset to this company by way of her hands-on contact with
distributors such as myself...
Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

----- Original Message -----
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: July 7, 1999 12:30 PM
Subject: Diamond Tech


> Help,
> I have a Diamond Laser 1000 glass saw.  It is old and needs repair.  I
> emailed Diamond Tech twice and have yet to get an answer.  How do you
> contact this company?  And do they repair their equipment when the
> warranty has run out?
> Thanks in advance.
> Shirley B
> ----
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>

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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 18:28:59 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990707182859.0069dfa4@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
References: <<1999Jul7.101952.0>>
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Charles,
	I am so glad that I understood you the first time.... your comments make
perfect sense to me....  Must be I have a better head for business than I
do for glass.  I have been doing glass strickly for my own personal
pleasure and therepy (?) for several years and still feel like I don't know
a darn thing.  I appreciate your thoughts and hope to meet you in August.

Barbara		

At 02:19 PM 7/7/99 -0400, Charles Warner wrote:
>Dani:
>
>>Charles is a retailer, too - and as far as I can tell
>>he's the apex of service to everyone... the guy
>>oughta write a book on good retailing.  There
>>are lots of folks out there who could learn a thing
>>or two from him.
>
>Thanks for the suggestion, we didn't write a book but we were
>honored last year when we came out on top in an independent
>survey of Customer Service.  Consequently, our Operations
>Manager, Chris Brandt was asked to give a seminar on Customer
>Service at the AGSA  Long Beach Convention.  In preparation for
>the 4-hour seminar Chris studied and analyzed our processes
>which caused us to become even better.  This seminar was a big
>boost to our own customer service as well as it was for the
>participants.
>
>
>ON A SEPARATE ISSUE:
>Obviously, I've made a couple of comments that have inflamed a
>couple of you out there and I'd like to take this opportunity to clarify
>a few things.
>
>Here's what I said in a private e-mail to Sue:
>
>"Purchasing locally only, will greatly limit you to things that someone else
>approves (the store owner).  Our greatest difficulty as product designers,
>importers and wholesalers is the mindset of retail store owners.  For the
>most part retailers do not want to carry anything that is new and do not
>have the working capitol to fully stock a store."
>
>While you're heating up your flame-throwers again, let me explain a little
>more fully than I had done.
>
>What I meant by saying when purchasing locally you are limited to things
>the store owner's approve is quite simply that they pick their inventory.
>They
>use their best judgement and opinions as to what their customers will
>buy.  If they feel suncatchers won't sell, they won't stock them (I know,
>because
>at one point I had done that).  It makes perfect business sense, but leads
>into
>my next statement.
>
>The mindset of retail store owners (that they choose what they stock) is
>also such
>that they don't want to carry new products.  This goes back to the fact that
>they are
>often working on a tight budgets and are afraid to risk trying a new
>product.  As
>many of you know, investing money in inventory is a major expense and if a
>product doesn't sell, you lose money.  It's because of this that retail
>stores often
>wait until a product is successful before carrying it.
>
>The irony of the situation is that new products won't be successful if the
>craftspeople
>aren't exposed to it.
>
>I hope I made a little more sense this time.  I'm still getting fitted for
>my asbestos suit,
>but I'd be happy to clarify anything I missed.
>
>Charles Warner
>Warner-Crivellaro
>http://www.warner-criv.com/
>
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 17:15:50 1999
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Diamond Tech
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:12:59 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.231259.0>
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I emailed them last year to find out about where to get a new grinder head 
locally because I was desperate to get one RIGHT AWAY.  They didn't respond 
by email, they mailed me a leaflet with all the stores in the U.S. that carry 
their products.  I received it 10 days after my email, long after I had 
located the grinder head on the internet.  Just because a company has a 
website or an email address doesn't mean they've assigned anyone to take care 
of replying by email.  I have found this to be the case A LOT! and it's quite 
annoying.  It's as if they are trying to appear up-to-date and savvy in 
business by putting up a website but haven't put in the "back office" stuff 
to carry it through.

Brenda 

<< Help,
 I have a Diamond Laser 1000 glass saw.  It is old and needs repair.  I
 emailed Diamond Tech twice and have yet to get an answer.  How do you
 contact this company?  And do they repair their equipment when the
 warranty has run out? >>
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 17:43:33 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: New pliers/tapping inside curves/amazing trick learned! 
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:34:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.15341.0>
Precedence: bulk

OK... I'm going to show my true newbie status here.
When I first bought my SG equipment, I took the store owner's suggestion and
bought a pair of those large metal running pliers. Well, they were stiff,
hard to open, and when I closed down, they had a sort of skipping thingy
making them snap shut rather suddenly. I oiled, he checked, and we both
decided they would loosen up in time. Meanwhile, I held my breath every time
I used them for something delicate.
Today I had enough! I went to another store where I purchase very
specialized glass, and she told me about these plastic jobs! Well... I
cannot believe the difference. They're unbelievably smooth, weigh about a
couple ounces, open and close like tossing a feather in the air, and are
simply a delight to use. I have been cutting a pattern which has a LOT of
deep circular cuts, and I've not broken one tip!
Also.. a question:
How come I don't hear anything about tapping? I learned to tap on the
innermost curve, holding the glass so lightly that the tapping caused a
vibration, sounding almost like a soft bell. I think that technique is what
made me so unafraid of inside curves right from the start. Charles
(instructor) had his son fashion a tapper which looks like a huge teardrop
on a handle, which he coated in rubber (that tool dip stuff). I'm just
curious if everyone uses one from time to time.
OK.. amazing trick time!
I KNOW most of you do this.. but to me, it's simply amazing! I made a panel
with a crystal spouted/handled thingy with flowers in it. I used corded
glass (don't know name) for the pitcher, and on the back of the panel, made
a water line and soldered it so that the pitcher/spout/handle all looked
like there was about 3" of water in it. I used my fave glass, Baroque in
light blue for the water!!   The combination of the textured glass with the
swirly "water" is sooooooooo neat!! I also made the stems of the flowers
come down into the "water", by soldering them behind the water! 3 LAYERS OF
GLASS!! Now.. let me tell you something!! I am AMAZED at how unbelievable it
looks! I'm on a mission now to double up glass!
I suppose it's a good thing (not a la Martha Stewart "good thing") that I
don't invent things. I would totally obnoxious!! :-)

I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
me to wait.
 Thanks... Mary


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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 17:58:35 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Wholesale and Retail Glass Stores
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 16:55:58 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.95558.0>
Precedence: bulk

As a store owner, I for one say Thank You!

When I spend ages talking to someone and helping them out, and then they
leave without buying even a token item, I must say it gets really hard to
smile and help out the next person.  Because I am there for the customers I
do put on that smile for the next one, but it sure is hard some days.

I appreciate it whenever someone recognises that us store owners are not
volunteers.  Sorry to say, if I don't earn a decent living I won't be there
the next time a customer needs help.  A bankrupt and closed business does
not help anyone.

So I really appreciate people who at least buy a token little something to
recognise I spent time helping them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Pkelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 1:11 PM
Subject: Wholesale and Retail Glass Stores


>I have been reading with interest the "Flux Brush" thread.
>
>Seldom do I ever leave a SG store without buying something. Even if it is
>only a $3 or $4 dollar item. I consider this a token of appreciation for
the
>store owner's effort.
>
>...

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 18:11:06 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: K See <kseeglass@netzero.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: warn the fire dept!
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:10:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.141018.0>
References: <<1999Jul7.131652.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hey...I dripped solder on my wedding ring not to long ago..
nice scar was left.  It was pretty unpleasant.

I pretty much wear an all cotton wardrobe to begin with.

Oh, can you imagine wearing polyester????   Now thats a scary thought.
;o)  In more ways than one!

Had a complete physical today.  Should have seen the Dr checking out my
left arm.  All kinds of burn scars.  Im right handed.  I always burn the
left arm or hand.  I reached across my right hand which was holding my
soldering iron one time.  Wont happen again. ;o)

Suzanne

K See wrote:
> 
> I recently made a paperweight. I asked beforehand if I should take my rings
> off. I was told I didn't have to. Well, I wear a silver ring on my pointer
> finger, right hand. When the gaffer had his back turned I slipped the ring
> into my bra. When I got home I had a minor burn. Silver is a good conductor
> of heat and I found out the hard way.
> 
> Also, only wear 100% cotton when working with hot glass, but the experts of
> hot glass know better than me.
> 
> KSee
> 
> "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home"
> Twyla Tharp
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Modiano, Victor <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
> To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 9:10 AM
> Subject: RE: warn the fire dept!
> 
> | Suzanne
> |
> | Can I interest you in a couple of fire extinguishers or some flameproof
> | children's clothing?
> |
> | Vic M.
> |
> | PS Do NOT wear jewelry while operating the torch.
> |
> |
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com]
> | Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 4:20 PM
> | To: glass@bungi.com
> | Subject: warn the fire dept!
> |
> | The torch came today!!!!! :o)
> | Oh, what a fun mail day for me!  New birkenstocks, IGGA new
> | member pack,
> | and a torch!  Yeeeha.  Life is good.  Better sell something
> | to pay the
> | Visa bill. ;o)
> |
> | Gotta match?  Watch out, I could be dangerous! ;o)
> | T Suz
> | --
> |
> | ----
> | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> | To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> |
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet.  Shouldn't you?
> Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
> http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
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-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 18:29:05 1999
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From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: retailers
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:41:47 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.124147.0>
Precedence: bulk

RCall10713  wrote "the little shops where
she used to go for patterns, and supplies, are gone. Sure, she can go to
Michael's, but don't ask any of those eighteen - year olds anything. They
haven't a clue."

That gave me the shivers thinking of my only local source of buying glass
would be "Hobby Lobby"!?   I have the urge to go to Albuquerque to the local
retailer right now and buy something!  I'll have glass nightmares tonite for
sure!  I'm insecure and my mommy dressed me funny!

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 18:44:11 1999
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From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: retailers 
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:59:27 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.125927.0>
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Howard wrote.....I taught for the enjoyment of it.


Teaching others is never about money.  My father was a cranky ol' bear but
teaching brought out the real sweetness in him and still does.  I never met
anyone who could not get a natural high from teaching another something.  It
is part of being fully human...animals are imprinted with all the important
stuff.  Sometimes, I wish some fourth graders were imprinted too, but that's
a cranky ol' teacher story.  Keep on teaching when you can, I am sure you
have touched your students greatly.

----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 19:15:12 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:40:28 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.104028.0>
Precedence: bulk

I assume different jurisdictions have different costs and charges for
registering a business.  But up here in Canada (British Columbia), it does
not cost much.  In fact it does not cost anything to register for a PST
(Provincial Sales Tax) or GST (Goods and Services Tax) number.  You have to
then file your PST or GST returns once a year (which takes a couple of hours
if you have kept your business records like you are supposed to).  In fact
the the tax rules up here strongly recommend you do have a separate PST for
each distinct business.

So why not do it?  Either you are in business or you are not.  If you are,
then you should already be keeping the records required in most tax
jurisdictions I know for filing the business type sales, value added, or
whatever tax return.  So it is not even that much effort.  For the few hours
spent a year (and being honest about the taxes I collect on the final
product), I also get the benefit of being able to buy wholesale from many
suppliers.

Now of course, if one is trying to get around sales taxes, or if one is
collecting sales tax and not reporting it, then I guess one would not want
to register.  But then one would are not be buying wholesale by definition
would one? :-)

For those wholesalers who have minimum order requirements (such as
Spectrum), why not get together with some other glass people in your area
and put together an order big enough?  When I have a big enough order, I
order through Spectrum direct using my PST registration as proof of business
status.  If it is a piddly little order of Spectrum glass, I use the
mid-level pricing my local suppliers give me because I am a registered
business.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mary <embee@mediaone.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 4:46 AM
Subject: buying wholesale


>I am interested in this thread for many reasons. One is that my friend was
>told that in order to buy wholesale from Spectrum, for examply, one not
only
>had to have an occupational license, but proof that stained glass is the
>major business. What does one do who makes stained glass to sell, but does
>it as an adjunct to another business? In her case, her husband renovates
>homes and she makes stained glass for the clients. Spectrum said she should
>ask her local retailer for a break, but that doesn't sound like the only
>answer.
>Any ideas?
>I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
>me to wait.
> Thanks... Mary
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
>To: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>; <glass@bungi.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 1:56 AM
>Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
>
>
>> > Well I guess you can read anything you want into Mr. Warner's
>statements.  It did come off sounding anti-retailer though in my
>> > opinion.  You just rearranged his words Albert to make it sound
innocent
>in that respect.  I do believe he said "Purchasing
>> > locally will greatly limit you to things that someone else approves
(the
>store owner)."
>>
>>
>> I believe what he said was "ONLY purchasing locally...."
>>
>> Charles honestly does defend local retailers to his customers, much more
>> than most retailers would ever believe.  I know, because he has defended
>> them to me more times than I can count...when I didnt think I was
>> attacking anyone.
>>
>> For someone like me with very little capitol...
>> with a 190 sq ft studio, I sell everything I make....but I cant order
>> glass wholesale, I dont sell supplies....and I cant afford to be in
>> business buying from a local retailer.
>>
>> W/C is the only option for someone like me.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I want to do glass work, not retail work...so Im screwed
>> with the wholesalers so far as I can tell.
>>
>> If glass is hobby only, and you want to spend your money locally, go for
>> it.  But if you need to make some money, you cant pay 3X more for
>> supplies.  It's that simple.  I dont know why that is so hard for people
>> to understand.
>>
>> Im not an awful person or cheap, but *I* have to make a profit too.
>> If I pay retail prices for my supplies, my work will have to be over
>> priced, and no one will buy it.
>>
>>  Tulsa Suzanne
>> --
>> Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
>>
>>                                        ----Harvey MacKay
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 19:40:41 1999
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: glass/what is chicago?
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 21:22:17 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990707212212.0093d5a8@pop.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk


>are located in Wisconsin, hence the name CHICAGO!
>Actually there is a bit more history involved, but I will not pass it on.
>enjoy, H

you sure do a good job of raising my curiosity level!  WAAAAAH... now I
WANT history!!!
Dee
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 19:56:07 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:54:40 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.105440.0>
Precedence: bulk

Of course everyone needs to buy where they get the best deal.

All I ask as a retailer is that everyone respect my time as part of the
"deal".

When I know exactly what I want, I often buy wholesale.

When I need to ask questions, futz around choosing exactly the "right" sheet
of glass, etc. then I go to my local retailer.  And I make sure I buy from
them at a price appropriate for the time and effort they have spent on me.

I know that if I pull the common trick of wasting my local retailers time
and then going and using that information or help to buy everything through
a wholesaler, in essence I am cheating my local retailer.  If enough people
do that to the local retailer, they won't be in business next time they are
needed.

I think it is very similar to problems bungi has discussed before in regards
to design time.  If someone asks me to design a piece for free, and then
goes to somewhere else cheaper to actually get the piece built, then they
are cheating me.  As a stained glass artist I can control this by insisting
on payment for design time.

A local retailer often does not have this option.  They have to help people
up front without asking if the person intends to buy first.  I feel it is
just polite to recognise the time the retailer has spent.

-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>
Date: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker


...

>I dont expect retailers to stop being retailers.  I only defend that I
>buy my supplies from a variety of places.  Local retailers arent the be
>all and end all of service and information.
>
>Tulsa Suzanne
>--
>Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
>
>                                       ----Harvey MacKay
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 20:04:03 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Claudette Jaramillo <cpjaram@7cities.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: retailers
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 20:46:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.154626.0>
References: <<1999Jul7.124147.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hobby Lobby doesnt bother me a bit.  They now carry only spectrum...and
before a person starts yelling why in the world would you buy spectrum
glass...

They have 50% off sales frequently on their glass.  I bought a ton of
great glass...(yes, spectrum)  Got some baroque, and lots of water glass
and red cathedral for $2 a ft.  Fine by me.  

My husband used my 20 yr old pattern shears to open a sack of dog food
the other day and ruined them...he didnt notice they werent regular
scissors...  Rather than driving across town to buy them from my local
retailer...I drove down the street and got a new pair that are alot
nicer than my old ones. (inland btw)

They carry canfield solder...and some other decent supplies.

Tulsa Suzanne

Claudette Jaramillo wrote:
> 
> RCall10713  wrote "the little shops where
> she used to go for patterns, and supplies, are gone. Sure, she can go to
> Michael's, but don't ask any of those eighteen - year olds anything. They
> haven't a clue."
> 
> That gave me the shivers thinking of my only local source of buying glass
> would be "Hobby Lobby"!?   I have the urge to go to Albuquerque to the local
> retailer right now and buy something!  I'll have glass nightmares tonite for
> sure!  I'm insecure and my mommy dressed me funny!
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 22:17:17 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: <hotglass@list.bb.net>,
Subject: Website for Intrastar Glass List has MOVED !!!
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:51:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.135153.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Everyone,

(site is mainly cold glass, with some hot glass bead work in the member
galleries, and this is here for those who requested message description of
hot glass versus cold glass)

As some of you know, the permanent address for the Intrastar Glass List
Website has moved to it's permanent location. For those that do not, here is
the address,

Website:  http://glass.intrastar.net

So if you have distributed the old temp address to friends, colleagues,
etc., or put it in your signature on your email, or other such places, make
sure to make the required changes or notification so that your friends can
find the new website address or URL.

The site has been submitted to the various search engines, lists,
directories, etc., about 888 of them all total. Shirley says that her email,
well let her tell you,

>I'm receiving confirmations from the search engine submissions (in a BIG
>way!) <giggle>  My mail notification has been ringing like a Vegas slot
>machine!  I love it!

I will be taking down the old temp site soon, and all new
additions/changes/etc. will be made to the new location.

Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://www.intrastar.net/~bud/index.htm



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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 22:36:43 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Tim Atwood <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 23:21:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.182121.0>
References: <<1999Jul7.104028.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> Now of course, if one is trying to get around sales taxes, or if one is
> collecting sales tax and not reporting it, then I guess one would not want
> to register.  But then one would are not be buying wholesale by definition
> would one? :-)


I couldnt tell who this was directed to...
if me..
I pay my taxes.  I report my income.

I had one run in with the IRS the year my husband died.  We had owned a
wine lab.

I lost my husband, the lab, and then the IRS thought it would be fun to
audit me. lol.  You know what they say about death and taxes?  It's
true.

We hadnt done anything wrong....but he was the real business person, I
had things in storage from  Northern California to Seattle, and ended up
with the IRS garnishing my wages and never knowing what I would have
from paycheck to paycheck.  They never took the same amount.  Sometimes
I would have a real paycheck, sometimes they saw fit to give me $50 to
live on.

I dont mess with the IRS.  They fight mean. <- said kindly of course.

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 23:40:33 1999
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "Bungi Glass List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:37:09 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.7379.0>
Precedence: bulk


From: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
To: Bungi Glass List <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker


[Snip]

>If I were standing in your shoes ... I'd also spend some
>time learning a little about polite phrasing.  This may be
>the internet ... but its a very small world.  This is not a
>threat ... just a statement of fact.
>
>Bob


Well said, Bob. There is a saying around here: A polite tongue is the best
Teacher. You wouldn't learn much from anywhere otherwise.

I guess, there is nothing more one can say about Mr Lewis's "credentials"
after what you have said.  For anyone in the business of glass knows his
contribution to this community. I like to call him, "The Dependable Albert"
for that's what he has been to me, a number of times.

Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313


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From owner-glass Wed Jul  7 23:46:17 1999
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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:47:56 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.84756.0>
Precedence: bulk

Shirley, you should try out all the nearby wholesale places around you,
some of them are quite ok about the qualifications. Some like Jenna
Meredith Delphi amd Art Glass House go on a case by case basis.

They have been very helpful to me, perhaps you may find them agreeable too.

Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: buying wholesale


>Hi all,
>This thread is near and dear to my heart also.
>What difference does it make if you are earning your total living at SG,
>or just supplementing your income?
>I am disabled.  This is not my major source of income, but I can't live
>on my disability.  I need to make more money.  I can't work outside of
>the home. So I do craft shows. I seriously do craft shows! About 14 a
>year. You are all familiar with the amount of product I make to cover
>that many craft shows.  And yes I am making slave wages. I like Suzanne,
>must get my supplies at wholesale prices, or there is no profit at all.
>Show fees are going up. Travel expenses go up. Wear and tear on my
>vechiles.  I have overhead!!!!!!
>Why are we not accepted?  I understand I don't have a store and
>employees to pay for, but I also don't have the ability to make that
>amount of money.  Why can't wholesalers take that into account?  Why not
>let the hobbist turned craftsman in to the wholesale game?  I should
>think if a person had, say 3 retailer, selling their product and they
>did 6 craft shows a year, that would be an acceptible business.  Has
>America gotten so greedy, that only if you make $1000's a month, you are
>considered a business?
>I can see, where this could be a nightmare for the wholesaler.  Any Tom
>Dick or Harry could say they do craft shows.  But, if they would just
>take away the picture of the store front and the yellow page ad as a
>requirement, then I know I could prove a business.
>What do we have to do, to get the wholesaler to sell to us???????
>Shirley B
>
>Mary wrote:
>>
>> I am interested in this thread for many reasons. One is that my friend
was
>> told that in order to buy wholesale from Spectrum, for examply, one not
only
>> had to have an occupational license, but proof that stained glass is the
>> major business. What does one do who makes stained glass to sell, but
does
>> it as an adjunct to another business? In her case, her husband renovates
>> homes and she makes stained glass for the clients. Spectrum said she
should
>> ask her local retailer for a break, but that doesn't sound like the only
>> answer.
>> Any ideas?
>> I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please
tell
>> me to wait.
>>  Thanks... Mary
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
>> To: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>; <glass@bungi.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 1:56 AM
>> Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
>>
>> > > Well I guess you can read anything you want into Mr. Warner's
>> statements.  It did come off sounding anti-retailer though in my
>> > > opinion.  You just rearranged his words Albert to make it sound
innocent
>> in that respect.  I do believe he said "Purchasing
>> > > locally will greatly limit you to things that someone else approves
(the
>> store owner)."
>> >
>> >
>> > I believe what he said was "ONLY purchasing locally...."
>> >
>> > Charles honestly does defend local retailers to his customers, much
more
>> > than most retailers would ever believe.  I know, because he has
defended
>> > them to me more times than I can count...when I didnt think I was
>> > attacking anyone.
>> >
>> > For someone like me with very little capitol...
>> > with a 190 sq ft studio, I sell everything I make....but I cant order
>> > glass wholesale, I dont sell supplies....and I cant afford to be in
>> > business buying from a local retailer.
>> >
>> > W/C is the only option for someone like me.
>> >
>> > Unfortunately, I want to do glass work, not retail work...so Im
screwed
>> > with the wholesalers so far as I can tell.
>> >
>> > If glass is hobby only, and you want to spend your money locally, go
for
>> > it.  But if you need to make some money, you cant pay 3X more for
>> > supplies.  It's that simple.  I dont know why that is so hard for
people
>> > to understand.
>> >
>> > Im not an awful person or cheap, but *I* have to make a profit too.
>> > If I pay retail prices for my supplies, my work will have to be over
>> > priced, and no one will buy it.
>> >
>> >  Tulsa Suzanne
>> > --
>> > Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you
promised.
>> >
>> >                                        ----Harvey MacKay
>> > ----
>> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>> >
>>
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>--
>xŸ>"3
�
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 00:03:14 1999
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X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash
From: "ktsplash" <ktsplash@mpx.com.au>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Fw: warn the fire dept!
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:55:12 +1000
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.15512.0>
Organization: Kariva Splash
Precedence: bulk




 <laughs>
 I've got a bad habit of holding up small copperfoiled panels, when I'm
 soldering the outside edges,
 I know I should have it set up in a little holder or something.
 Couple of weeks ago, a great *big* blob of hot solder rolled off the edge,
 right down the inside of my arm
 broke into a couple of smaller but still big blobs, and settled right in
the
 crook of my elbow!
 YYEEEOOOOUCCCHHH!!
 so now I have these interesting scars running down my wrists, and a few
more
 inside my elbow where junkies shoot up.
 get some interesting looks down at the corner store....
 but they all treat me VERY nicely - probably afraid I'm unstable! LOL!
 Katie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> To: K See <kseeglass@netzero.net>; <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 8 July 1999 10:10
> Subject: Re: warn the fire dept!
>
>
> > Hey...I dripped solder on my wedding ring not to long ago..
> > nice scar was left.  It was pretty unpleasant.
> >
> > I pretty much wear an all cotton wardrobe to begin with.
> >
> > Oh, can you imagine wearing polyester????   Now thats a scary thought.
> > ;o)  In more ways than one!
> >
> > Had a complete physical today.  Should have seen the Dr checking out my
> > left arm.  All kinds of burn scars.  Im right handed.  I always burn the
> > left arm or hand.  I reached across my right hand which was holding my
> > soldering iron one time.  Wont happen again. ;o)
> >
> > Suzanne
> >
> > K See wrote:
> > >
> > > I recently made a paperweight. I asked beforehand if I should take my
> rings
> > > off. I was told I didn't have to. Well, I wear a silver ring on my
> pointer
> > > finger, right hand. When the gaffer had his back turned I slipped the
> ring
> > > into my bra. When I got home I had a minor burn. Silver is a good
> conductor
> > > of heat and I found out the hard way.
> > >
> > > Also, only wear 100% cotton when working with hot glass, but the
experts
> of
> > > hot glass know better than me.
> > >
> > > KSee
> > >
> > > "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home"
> > > Twyla Tharp
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Modiano, Victor <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
> > > To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 9:10 AM
> > > Subject: RE: warn the fire dept!
> > >
> > > | Suzanne
> > > |
> > > | Can I interest you in a couple of fire extinguishers or some
> flameproof
> > > | children's clothing?
> > > |
> > > | Vic M.
> > > |
> > > | PS Do NOT wear jewelry while operating the torch.
> > > |
> > > |
> > > | -----Original Message-----
> > > | From: Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com]
> > > | Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 4:20 PM
> > > | To: glass@bungi.com
> > > | Subject: warn the fire dept!
> > > |
> > > | The torch came today!!!!! :o)
> > > | Oh, what a fun mail day for me!  New birkenstocks, IGGA new
> > > | member pack,
> > > | and a torch!  Yeeeha.  Life is good.  Better sell something
> > > | to pay the
> > > | Visa bill. ;o)
> > > |
> > > | Gotta match?  Watch out, I could be dangerous! ;o)
> > > | T Suz
> > > | --
> > > |
> > > | ----
> > > | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > | To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > |
> > >
> > > ________________________________________________________
> > > NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet.  Shouldn't you?
> > > Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
> > > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> > --
> > Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
> >
> >                                        ----Harvey MacKay
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
>


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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 00:03:47 1999
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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Diamond Tech
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:56:18 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.85618.0>
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>


>Help,
>I have a Diamond Laser 1000 glass saw.  It is old and needs repair.  I
>emailed Diamond Tech twice and have yet to get an answer.  How do you
>contact this company?  And do they repair their equipment when the
>warranty has run out?
>Thanks in advance.
>Shirley B


You might get the right address and contact for your saw from bungi. But I
will give you the last resort. Find a motor mechanic who does not charge
you an arm and a leg. There are some who don't, and rise up to the
challenge of fixing anything. I found one for my grinder.

Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 00:31:23 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: BMarhon@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Diamond Tech
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 01:07:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.20746.0>
References: <<1999Jul7.231259.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> It's as if they are trying to appear up-to-date and savvy in 
> business by putting up a website but haven't put in the "back office" stuff 
> to carry it through.

I was looking for bead info...and found a site that tells you...dont
expect a speedy reply by email.  If you want a quick answer call us.
Then they go on to say they have alot of phone numbers...so they may
not answer right away (hope I have this right) at least this was how 
I percieved it.  I checked their hours of operation, telephoned...and 
no one ever answered the pnone! ;o) lol....

Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 00:46:18 1999
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X-Path: cyberbeach.net!dayle
From: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 01:52:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.215231.0>
References: <<37835CD0.E928BF5C@ix.netcom.com>>
Organization: Celestial Luminosities
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne, I don't set the buying requirements to buy wholesale...the wholesalers do.  I meet these requirements, therefore I buy
wholesale.  I run a legitimate stained glass business.  I have a storefront which has the proper zoning for operating a business, I  pay
business insurance, pay business tax, pay for a business phone,  pay for advertising, I collect all relevant sales taxes and submit them
to the government, I have a business account and the list goes on.  These are all facets pertaining to running a business.  They all cost
money, and in order to run a business you must have or execute them.  That is if you want to be taken seriously.  And that is what
wholesalers are looking for.  Individuals who are seriously committed to selling  their product.  They want to make sure their product is
selling in order for them to make money and grow.  They can't very well place these requirements on store owners and then turn around and
sell to anyone who wants to buy minimally.
Are you ligit in my eyes?  I don't know.  I have no idea as to how you run your business nor am I familiar with the legalities involved in
operating a business in the USA.  Are you legally required to collect and submit to your State government retail sales tax?  In Canada or
more specifically in the province I live in, a person involved in selling anything made from tax exempted  raw materials for resale to the
public is required to collect and submit sales tax to the government on a regular basis.  If you are required to do this and don't then
I'd have to say no.....you aren't legitimate.  I pay taxes on my income as well as collecting and submitting sales tax.  Everyone pays
taxes on their income, it doesn't necessarily mean they run a business.


Suzanne Gunn wrote:

> Dayle wrote:
> >
> > Suzanne Gunn wrote:
> >
> > > I believe what he said was "ONLY purchasing locally...."
> >
> > Well what he really said was "Purchasing locally only...."  but that's just semantics I suppose as it all means the same thing.  To
> > me the response was clearly not in defense of the local retailer.
> > I sympathize with your situation on the need to make money, but you're either in business or you're not.  If you're in business
> > legitimately then you can purchase materials wholesale.
>
> How do you define legitimately?  I pay taxes on my income, does that
> make me legit in your eyes?
>
>  What I can't understand is why some people feel they should be able to
> > purchase their glass supplies wholesale when they don't expect the same in other aspects of their lives....or maybe they do.
>
> What does that mean?  How do you know what I expect in other aspects of
> my life????  Have we met? ;o)

I never said I knew what you expect.  Like I said, some people expect to be able to buy their glass supplies wholesale when they do not
have a stained glass business.  Does this mean they expect to get everything else wholesale as well?  If people come into my store and
expect me to sell them supplies at my cost, I just wonder ....do they go into other places of business and ask to buy items there at cost
as well?

>
>
> > Retailers have a place in our economy.  If there were no retailers, how many people do you know  would be without employment?
>
> I never said I wish they'd disapear.  I dont know anyone that makes
> clothing that pays retail for their fabric.

And again, I never claimed you said that you wished retailers would disappear.

>
>
>  Think
> > about it.  Is your income derived solely from the sale of stained glass products without any other source of financial support?
>
> What does that matter to anyone?  A lot of people have more than one job
> to survive.  I know when I was a Social Worker, I couldnt get by on that
> income alone.  I held another full time job as well.

It matters to the wholesaler.  Again, they want to make sure you are a serious business person to sell their product.  That's not to say
you can't have more than one business or job, as long as you can hire the staff required to run your business to meet their expectations.
Most small business people can't do this.  They run the business themselves which accounts for the majority of their time.

>
>
> If
> > it is, then I'm afraid you won't realize a substantial wage to support yourself unless you do go into business and meet the
> > requirements to buy wholesale.  Unless you are content to sell your product without accounting for a reasonable fee for your time.
> > If that's the case, even then you wouldn't make a decent wage, you'd be working for nothing....not any better  than the slave labour
> > in China and elsewhere we've been reading posts on.
> > It is not my intent to argue with you on this issue Suzanne but rather to create dialogue which will hopefully develop a better
> > understanding of what's involved in making a living in this field.
>
> I make a larger hourly wage than I did as a social worker.
>
> Apparently, what is involved to make a living in this field is to
> sell supplies and try to keep anyone that does stained glass content
> to only make a few *extra bucks, or remain a hobbiest.

Now that's just not fair.  I think you may be frustrated by trying to find a loop hole in order to make more money.  It just isn't there.
Why should you be allowed to play by different rules? You're either a hobbyist or you're in business.

>
>
> I dont expect retailers to stop being retailers.  I only defend that I
> buy my supplies from a variety of places.  Local retailers arent the be
> all and end all of service and information.

I never said they were.  I was only commenting on the fact that if people don't buy some things locally (if a local retailer is available)
then before you know it, the local retailer won't be there, they will have gone out of business.  It amazes me that the "Royal Jerk"
retailer  that Dani referred to where she lives who "will scalp the public any chance they get" is still in business.  If a retailer in
any business, let alone stained glass, charges more than a reasonable retail price and is a jerk to boot....then don't shop there.  In any
walk of life you'll find bad apples, but in my opinion it's not the majority.  It's just the bad ones that seem to get talked about and
remembered and unfortunately the good ones sometimes pay the consequences.

Dayle

>
>
> Tulsa Suzanne
> --
> Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
>
>                                        ----Harvey MacKay



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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 00:51:34 1999
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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio.stainedglass@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: Retail Shop? 
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 03:00:58 +0800
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|This is a reply to Elizabeth's mail. Rather long. Couldn't send it direct,
mail bounced.

Hello Elizabeth

It is more circumstances that forced me into retail. Though we have one
quite nearby in SIngapore. When I first caught the stained glass fever I
hunted high and low for someone who could spare some basic supplies. But if
you remember any of my old posts that was some story.

I could not find any, there is very close mouthed approach among the few
stained glass shops here (I refuse to call them studios). Actually this
attitude of secrecy runs in almost any business here, ask a stationery
seller the wholesale address of any particular thing and you get all sorts
of evasive answers. Same with stained glass people here. It is perhaps
because the people running the operation (I still refuse..... :-)) are more
in it as a business and are not artists.

And talking of secrecy, remember the time when I was talking of a possible
order for 50-60 panel style lampshades, I lurker on this list from around
here beat me to it. From what I know he quoted very low prices bought bulk
from our dear old Dale and end of story. So secrecy is legitimate around
here, I suppose. Anyway, I guy now sometimes buys glass and other supplies
from me. So I won't disclose his identity.

Anyway, since I could not get any supplies locally, I got it from mail
order. Couldn't afford the shipping on glass. So got some foil and started
off. I have altogether, two or three dozen panels, suncatchers, shades made
of window glass.

One student learning candle making made me teach her basic stained glass, a
real instance of one eyed leading the blind, and then a few more. My retail
base very small, the four guys I taught plus the "glass shops" now and then
calling for something they need urgently.

I shouldn't define myself as a retailer by right. But since there is no one
else that fits the bill, I am one. But I stock mostly for the people I
teach, and since I do a lot of variety  of panels I like to have a good
stockpile of glass colors.

Yes, I am mostly dependent on US for supplies, but have found Spectrum
glass distributors in Indonesia, so I carry Spectrum mostly, others being
far too expensive. And I don't make much money from retail, as it is sg is
expensive, and if start adding a healthy profit margin I would only drive
away the little that I have.

Yes, I believe that teaching is the only way I can promote sg, and improve
retail, hoping they come back.   I think I should send this as a topic on
Bungi "How would I go about promoting Stained Glass in Malaysia on a modest
budget" perhaps give a bit of the laydown situation here. Look for the
post. I would love to hear your views on it.

Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313


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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 01:19:00 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 02:22:13 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

Im too tired to answer this..
Im tired of defending myself.
Yes, I collect and pay sales tax when it is required.  
no, I dont have a separate business phone....

Im legal.

Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 02:12:01 1999
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From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:03:33 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul7.18333.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>And now I have started
mixing and matching colors in the kiln, and I get some pretty wonderful
hues.

Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi<<

Pray tell, what do you mean by, *mixing and matching colors in the kiln*?

.....Bob (the cool one)

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out:
http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm 

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 02:41:05 1999
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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: The state of Stained Glass in Malaysia- 
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:47:39 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.124739.0>
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I sent this post to the bungi. I thought it might interest you all too.

Dear Bungians

I was replying to Elizabeth's post and it occured to me. What better place
than Bungi to hammer out a cohesive plan on how to propogate this beautiful
art form. Certainly as a retailer I will stand to gain should something
like this happen. But believe me, that is the least of the motivating
factor for me.

I will not *demand* any replies, I have quite rightfully been taken to task
for doing just that before. But I request.

Let me give a brief outline about the situation of Stained Glass in
Malaysia.

Malaysia, for those that may not know, is a South East Asian nation,
bounded at north by Thailand, and south by Singapore. Technically it is a
peninsula as a thin corridor of water separates us from Singapore. Malaysia
gained independence in 1957 from the British. And has prospered since.
Until two years ago, the economy ws growing at a robust 8 to 9 % and then
came the big crash where some of SE Asian countries became almost bankrupt.
But this the economy has shown great promises, and contrary to what you may
have read, the signs are good, business is picking up.

The culture of arts and crafts had never  really been very much entrenhced
here, except in some very specifically Malaysian arts like Wayang Kulit
(Shadow Play) and Layang-Layang (kites) . So when the economic boom began
in the early 80's, it created new jobs and almost overnight improved the
standard of living. But it came at a cost, people had less time to spare to
annything that did not pay. The children were told to stop fooling around,
that being good at painting would not get them a job.

People were rich, but not rich enough to indulge in buying authentic pieces
of arts, so that culture lagged behind. Also, I suppose, (and this only
opinion, as usual, having an opinion on everything under the sun) that when
bank balances improve in a very short space of time, they create a desire
to  decorate the homes and offices. And what happened with Malaysia was
exactly that, its arts culture had completely died in the new found drive
for wealth. And when the deisre to beautify homes came there was no proper
direction. Suddenly, it why hell should I pay few thousand for the stained
glass door when the equally good looking fibre glass substitute (from SGO)
at the fraction of the cost? And the problem was that there was no one
around to tell them why. Home decorators and other related business people
found SGO as more profiting.

The arts movement sort of came out of hibernation just a while ago. The
theatre is seeing a new wave of talented young artists, the other arts to
are slowly picking up.

But not enough. There needs to be a push required. I recently got a call
from the editor of the national newspaper to do a series of articles in the
do-it-yourself line. I am supposed to deliver 10 articles. I have finished
6 so far. I have thought of an article on Stained Glass. But the
restriction on making the articles a very easy to do DIY type makes think
twice. (anyway Gerry would kill me first and Monona complete the last
ritesif I did anything like that :-))

There are about four or five people who deal in stained glass, most are
more of importers than anything, and two of them even manufacture their own
panels. There is no school. college or institute that teaches stained
glass, there are no source for sg supplies. There are no retail suppliers
(save me- who barely passes off as one). The nearest one is inSingapore,
and with the exchange rate today, AND his naturally high costs, it
LOSE-LOSE situation. People are not aware of the difference between a SG
panel and a fibre glass outfit.

But something needs to be done. If not at the national level at least at
the local level at a smaller scale. So my call question call topic for
debate (or invitation to flame) is this:

How can I improve the SG scene here. How can I create more awareness.
Should volunteer to teach at schools, advertise at community gathering
holes? What plan of action can I begin with.

Enjoy.


Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313


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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 07:09:27 1999
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From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'Suzanne Gunn' <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, K See <kseeglass@netzero.net>, 
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: warn the fire dept!
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:50:12 -0400 
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.45012.0>
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Suzanne

Did you get the standard lead test and lecture with your physical.
It seems ever since my doctor found out about me doing glasswork it's the
lecture and recommended test every visit.
My last test was great and the insurance company won't cover nearly as often
as the doctor suggests.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com]
		Sent:	Wednesday, July 07, 1999 8:10 PM
		To:	K See; glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: warn the fire dept!


		Had a complete physical today.  Should have seen the Dr
checking out my
		left arm.  All kinds of burn scars.  Im right handed.  I
always burn the
		left arm or hand.  I reached across my right hand which was
holding my
		soldering iron one time.  Wont happen again. ;o)

		Suzanne

		
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 07:30:52 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: warn the fire dept!
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 08:23:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.3236.0>
References: <<BF25963478F6D1118A3200A0C9B425236C6AF5@corpntex01.ctronsoft.com>>
Precedence: bulk

I have decided I have a really great doctor.  I had the most thourough
physical Ive ever had.  Part of that is age....

I requested to have my lead level checked.  My level was 3.  Looks like 
my open windows and fans arent doing too bad a job!  Yea!

My lead level was actually lower than it was 2 years ago when I was
still living in our *old* house that was built in 1924.
I hadnt gotten back into stained glass yet.

Now to wait for the chest xray results!

Oh...the reason the Dr is so popular with me now?
The front office girls told me my appointment would have to be
rescheduled.  But not before I had my kids with a babysitter, changed
the appointment to get my car's AC fixed etc....

I needed to talk to the nurse regarding some insurance matters, and
requested they let me go ahead and do all the lab work.

The nurse came out and took me to the Dr.  They didnt have any idea that
the fron office was canceling me.  The Dr said "No Way"  The nurse was
telling me privately how glad she was that I requested to see her...as
the Dr will "straighten them out now"  He was really nice...asked me
what happened, I told him, and told him it was the second time it had
happened. ;o)  He said.."We'll do your physical right *now*"

Im glad to hear your test was good Vic, and relieved that mine was.

T Suz

> "Modiano, Victor" wrote:
> 
> Suzanne
> 
> Did you get the standard lead test and lecture with your physical.
> It seems ever since my doctor found out about me doing glasswork it's
> the lecture and recommended test every visit.
> My last test was great and the insurance company won't cover nearly as
> often as the doctor suggests.
> 
> Vic M.
> Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com
> 
>           -----Original Message-----
>           From:   Suzanne Gunn [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com]
>           Sent:   Wednesday, July 07, 1999 8:10 PM
>           To:     K See; glass@bungi.com
>           Subject:        Re: warn the fire dept!
> 
>           Had a complete physical today.  Should have seen the Dr
>           checking out my
>           left arm.  All kinds of burn scars.  Im right handed.  I
>           always burn the
>           left arm or hand.  I reached across my right hand which was
>           holding my
>           soldering iron one time.  Wont happen again. ;o)
> 
>           Suzanne

-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 08:20:52 1999
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X-Path: one.net!kleeman
From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: retailers
Date: Thu Jul  8 07:04:45 1999
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.44245.0>
Precedence: bulk


>snip<
    >That gave me the shivers thinking of my only local source of buying
glass
>would be "Hobby Lobby"!?   I have the urge to go to Albuquerque to the
local
>retailer right now and buy something

any one in the cincinnati area having this urge, i will gladly be waiting
>tee-hee<
debbie

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 08:38:43 1999
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From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Wholesale and Retail Glass Stores
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:50:13 -0400 
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.55013.0>
Precedence: bulk

Tim

Hopefully you also recognize and appreciate those who come back to buy after
not buying anything.

I just went stereo shopping for a car that didn't have a cassette deck. The
place that got the sale was the second of five stores that were checked. He
didn't have the cheapest price but he was in the ball park. He did have a
competent staff that answered my questions and did not try to sell me what I
didn't want.

I think the same thing happened when I bought my grinder and almost every
other appliance.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Tim Atwood [mailto:atwoods@aisl.bc.ca]
		Sent:	Wednesday, July 07, 1999 7:56 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: Wholesale and Retail Glass Stores



		So I really appreciate people who at least buy a token
little something to
		recognise I spent time helping them.

		
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 08:45:06 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:03:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.6346.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Shirley Balloch
>I can see, where this could be a nightmare for the wholesaler.  Any Tom
Dick or Harry could say they do craft shows.  But, if they would just
take away the picture of the store front and the yellow page ad as a
requirement, then I know I could prove a business.
What do we have to do, to get the wholesaler to sell to us???????<

Shirley, I totally sympathise with you.  As they say, "Been there...done
that."
But survived anyway.  The local distributor also required photo of a stor=
e
front, plus the Yellow Pages ad, as well as the usual business license,
tax ID, etc.  Then you know what?  They stopped carrying glass.  Said
it cost them too much in storage fees and it was not profitable enough.
So now they only sell supplies, mostly through mailorder.

So, I was forced to look elsewhere for my wholesale glass purchases.
In the end, this proved to be sort of a blessing.  Found a couple of good=

distributors who do sell wholesale without requiring you to send in photo=
s
of your store front, etc.  I was able to easily meet their wholesale
purchase
requirements.

Moral of the story?  It pays to shop around.  Why not go to the IGGA
web site and look up a few distributors somewhere around you?  Also
keep in mind that most mailorder wholesale companies have wholesale
requirements which can be less-restrictive.

Christie Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 10:14:00 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:17:11 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.21711.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>I take two diffrent colors and full fuse them. And viola! I have a color I
never imagined before
Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi<<

Here is a tip that you may like. Seeing as art glass comes at a huge premium
in your country it would be good if you used every scrap of glass. By
grinding up your left over scraps you can make frit that then be fused on a
piece of compatable clear or colored glass. The frit can be sifted by size.
You can get some great effects this way and by wasting not want not.

.....Bob (the cool one)

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out:
http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 10:29:12 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:25:16 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.22516.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sorry, a joke taken the wrong way.  I should have known better.  Taxes are
no laughing matter.

I know.  I used to live in the U.S.  The IRS is one of the most vicious tax
agencies I have ever had the dubious pleasure of dealing with.  By
comparison Revenue Canada is a bunch of angels.  Angels who want my money,
but after IRS hell anything else seems like heaven.

Again, sorry if I got a little snarkey there...

-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Tim Atwood <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
Cc: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: buying wholesale


>> Now of course, if one is trying to get around sales taxes, or if one is
>> collecting sales tax and not reporting it, then I guess one would not
want
>> to register.  But then one would are not be buying wholesale by
definition
>> would one? :-)
>
>
>I couldnt tell who this was directed to...
>if me..
>I pay my taxes.  I report my income.
>
...

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 10:42:30 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: re: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:04:58 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.2458.0>
References: <<1999Jul7.141018.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

> Oh, can you imagine wearing polyester????   Now thats a scary thought.
> ;o)  In more ways than one!



oh I dont know...theres some pretty snazzy clothes out there that are
made of some pretty unnatural fabrics....and some of them are even
FASHIONABLE...we cant be clothing snobs, eh? But along the polyester
line....it CAN melt and very very quickly....so makes sense not to wear
it if you are near fire or flame...or for that matter even those nice
fleece jackets that people wear camping(egads even the all cotton crowd
likes them, "unnatural" as they are) probably shouldnt be worn near
campfires, which of course is a very likely place to be wearing
them....and some mag I read recently a guy had been in a plane crash and
his clothing melted onto him so he said to not fly in polyester...I
thought for that matter if you take it that far...dont get in your car
in it either because you are more likely to be in a car fire than a
plane fire.  That seems to be taking it a bit far....
with the rings.... makes sense...I also remember being told by several
different types of athletic coach not to wear rings during the event in
case I broke a finger the ring would casue the finger to swell, possibly
injuring it more AND I would have to have the ring cut off.....I still
keep my rings on when I work with horses though..I dont feel like taking
them off and on, off and on all the time...only time I take em off is
when I work with raw meat to keep from collecting salmonella....oh
well...you cant live your life weighing and measuring every risk and
making your decisions solely around risk avoidance.  although I am the
one who goes around making sure other parents know about the hood
strings on kids jackets....wont let anyone get on a horse, bike,
motorcycle, rollerblades etc etc without a helmet..making sure everyone
washes their hands after they touch raw chickens, etc. some things just
makes common sense safety wise...some are hedging on the ridiculous..I
hate those womens mags that always have a new risk every issue that of
course none of us knew about before and of course something flukish with
a miniscule risk of actually happening to any of us...I went to lunch
with a friend of my daughters and her mother from school yesterday..they
wouldnt let the kids int he ballpit at McDonalds becasue of hte germs
and that tney had "heard" that some kids pee in there rather than get up
and go to the bathroom, they are phobic about public restrooms because
of hte germs, have trained their kids to line the toilets with TP before
they sit down if they absolutely MUST sit on a public toilet....I
couldnt believe it.  I cant live my life with that phobic health food
store mentality that there is always "something" lurking in everyday
substances that will kill, maim or sicken you and the people at the
health food stores are the ones "onto" it of course and the rest of the
public is just being duped. 
speak of the fabric thingie...my husband knew a woman from a support
group he was in when our daughter was born...she brought over a dress
and some booties to match as a gift..well...she read the tag on the
booties, found out they were polyester and took them back saying she
"couldnt live with herself if she allowed a baby to have them next to
her skin" because she had "read", in some health food store book natch,
that polyester releases "toxins" into the skin(of course this woman very
unnaturally  spent  her working days injecting water into peoples colons
to "flush the toxins out"..yup she was a professional "colonic
administrator)....PUUUULLLLEEZZZ....
I am sorry , this is TOTALLY nonglass related..the fabric was just a
jumping off point...but the whole Mickey Dees thingie is fresh in my
mind and whenever I see "all natural" touted as somehow superior  it
just sets off something wild in me that makes me wanna SCREAM.

Liz
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 11:03:51 1999
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From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: The state of Stained Glass in Malaysia- 
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:29:40 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.22940.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>How can I improve the SG scene here. How can I create more awareness.
Should volunteer to teach at schools, advertise at community gathering
holes? What plan of action can I begin with.<<

It seems to me that nothing would beat a nice panel on display. What about
displaying in the lobby of a bank. Find a place where people with spare
money hang out and let them see the real thing. ....................Bob (the
cool one)

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out:
http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 11:13:10 1999
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From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: buying wholesale
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:43:05 -0400 
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.8435.0>
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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01BEC960.F3AC601A
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Wholesalers face a lot of problems dealing with "almost businesses.  The two
big ones being payment and delivery.

Most wholesalers I've dealt with bill at 30, 60 or 90 days. Very few ship
COD. They want to be fairly certain that you will still be there (and paying
your bills) in the foreseeable  future.  If  you are a "real" (will not
define that further) business it is much less likely you will disappear
between delivery and payment. (Please do not read any accusations into the
above. It is an unwritten policy statement heard from many larger
companies.)

When I was delivering for a lumber yard we had to schedule a delivery for
NST Construction, a "contractor".  It seems this "contractor" had a day job
and it would be inconvenient for him to accept delivery before 5:00 PM (our
closing time).  He also wanted part of the order delivered to the work site
and the rest to his shop (a one car garage with out a sign on it). And to
top it off he would not be able to help unload the lumber and windows and
expected it to be stacked at a specific spot around the back on the other
side of the driveway. We didn't find out the conditions until after the
order was in and we called to schedule delivery.

Fortunately Jeff, the manager, dealt with the problems. I just had to listen
to the guy bitch while I unloaded the truck and he had to move the stuff in
back. My instructions from my foreman and the manager were very specific;
"tail gate delivery". He really got them POed. Granted we had done most of
the above for long time customers and sometimes even do-it-yourselfers. But
never all at once and never without being told before the order was placed.
NST caused Jeff to tighten up who qualified for the professional discounts,
instituted a schedule of delivery fees and cost a lot of small contractors a
discount.

We know that a company would not have these problems with us, but how does
the company know? When we hire people we check credentials and references.
That is what the wholesale houses are doing when they set guidelines for
what qualifies as a business. 

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com  

		
		Message text written by Shirley Balloch
		>I can see, where this could be a nightmare for the
wholesaler.  Any Tom
		Dick or Harry could say they do craft shows.  But, if they
would just
		take away the picture of the store front and the yellow page
ad as a
		requirement, then I know I could prove a business.
		What do we have to do, to get the wholesaler to sell to
us???????<

		

------_=_NextPart_001_01BEC960.F3AC601A
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: buying wholesale</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Wholesalers face a lot of problems =
dealing with &quot;almost businesses.&nbsp; The two big ones being =
payment and delivery.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Most wholesalers I've dealt with bill =
at 30, 60 or 90 days. Very few ship COD. They want to be fairly certain =
that you will still be there (and paying your bills) in the =
foreseeable&nbsp; future.&nbsp; If&nbsp; you are a &quot;real&quot; =
(will not define that further) business it is much less likely you will =
disappear between delivery and payment. (Please do not read any =
accusations into the above. It is an unwritten policy statement heard =
from many larger companies.)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">When I was delivering for a lumber =
yard we had to schedule a delivery for NST Construction, a =
&quot;contractor&quot;.&nbsp; It seems this &quot;contractor&quot; had =
a day job and it would be inconvenient for him to accept delivery =
before 5:00 PM (our closing time).&nbsp; He also wanted part of the =
order delivered to the work site and the rest to his shop (a one car =
garage with out a sign on it). And to top it off he would not be able =
to help unload the lumber and windows and expected it to be stacked at =
a specific spot around the back on the other side of the driveway. We =
didn't find out the conditions until after the order was in and we =
called to schedule delivery.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Fortunately Jeff, the manager, dealt =
with the problems. I just had to listen to the guy bitch while I =
unloaded the truck and he had to move the stuff in back. My =
instructions from my foreman and the manager were very specific; =
&quot;tail gate delivery&quot;. He really got them POed. Granted we had =
done most of the above for long time customers and sometimes even =
do-it-yourselfers. But never all at once and never without being told =
before the order was placed.&nbsp; NST caused Jeff to tighten up who =
qualified for the professional discounts, instituted a schedule of =
delivery fees and cost a lot of small contractors a =
discount.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">We know that a company would not have =
these problems with us, but how does the company know? When we hire =
people we check credentials and references. That is what the wholesale =
houses are doing when they set guidelines for what qualifies as a =
business. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com&nbsp; </FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"></A>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Message text written by Shirley =
Balloch</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;I can see, where this could be a =
nightmare for the wholesaler.&nbsp; Any Tom</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Dick or Harry could say they do craft =
shows.&nbsp; But, if they would just</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">take away the picture of the store =
front and the yellow page ad as a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">requirement, then I know I could =
prove a business.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">What do we have to do, to get the =
wholesaler to sell to us???????&lt;</FONT>
</P>

<P>
</P>
</UL></UL>
</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01BEC960.F3AC601A--
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 11:44:51 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glshorse@ior.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 12:41:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.74158.0>
References: <<378A122A.1FE3@ior.com>>
Precedence: bulk

> > Oh, can you imagine wearing polyester????   Now thats a scary thought.
> > ;o)  In more ways than one!
> 
> 
> 
> oh I dont know...theres some pretty snazzy clothes out there that are
> made of some pretty unnatural fabrics....and some of them are even
> FASHIONABLE...we cant be clothing snobs, eh?

I didnt like them in '71 and I still dont.  And now my mother cant
*make* me wear them.

Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 12:13:05 1999
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X-Path: one.net!kleeman
From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?
Date: Thu Jul  8 11:25:55 1999
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.9355.0>
Precedence: bulk

i found your analysis hilarious, as i sit here eating a subway sandwich that
was made by a girl you enough to be my grand daughter, with clear plastic
gloves one, that she picked up out of a box with her bare hands, put here
hands inside, then made the sandwich---do these people not realize they hold
the outside of the glove, lay it on the dirty table, and put it on to keep
the are sterile??? DUH???
have laughed about this for years
debbie


debbie taylor
kleeman@one.net
http://www.taylordexpressions.com
your complete stained glass supply source
1-888-488-9616
-----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 2:11 PM
Subject: re: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?


>> Oh, can you imagine wearing polyester????   Now thats a scary thought.
>> ;o)  In more ways than one!
>
>
>
>oh I dont know...theres some pretty snazzy clothes out there that are
>made of some pretty unnatural fabrics....and some of them are even
>FASHIONABLE...we cant be clothing snobs, eh? But along the polyester
>line....it CAN melt and very very quickly....so makes sense not to wear
>it if you are near fire or flame...or for that matter even those nice
>fleece jackets that people wear camping(egads even the all cotton crowd
>likes them, "unnatural" as they are) probably shouldnt be worn near
>campfires, which of course is a very likely place to be wearing
>them....and some mag I read recently a guy had been in a plane crash and
>his clothing melted onto him so he said to not fly in polyester...I
>thought for that matter if you take it that far...dont get in your car
>in it either because you are more likely to be in a car fire than a
>plane fire.  That seems to be taking it a bit far....
>with the rings.... makes sense...I also remember being told by several
>different types of athletic coach not to wear rings during the event in
>case I broke a finger the ring would casue the finger to swell, possibly
>injuring it more AND I would have to have the ring cut off.....I still
>keep my rings on when I work with horses though..I dont feel like taking
>them off and on, off and on all the time...only time I take em off is
>when I work with raw meat to keep from collecting salmonella....oh
>well...you cant live your life weighing and measuring every risk and
>making your decisions solely around risk avoidance.  although I am the
>one who goes around making sure other parents know about the hood
>strings on kids jackets....wont let anyone get on a horse, bike,
>motorcycle, rollerblades etc etc without a helmet..making sure everyone
>washes their hands after they touch raw chickens, etc. some things just
>makes common sense safety wise...some are hedging on the ridiculous..I
>hate those womens mags that always have a new risk every issue that of
>course none of us knew about before and of course something flukish with
>a miniscule risk of actually happening to any of us...I went to lunch
>with a friend of my daughters and her mother from school yesterday..they
>wouldnt let the kids int he ballpit at McDonalds becasue of hte germs
>and that tney had "heard" that some kids pee in there rather than get up
>and go to the bathroom, they are phobic about public restrooms because
>of hte germs, have trained their kids to line the toilets with TP before
>they sit down if they absolutely MUST sit on a public toilet....I
>couldnt believe it.  I cant live my life with that phobic health food
>store mentality that there is always "something" lurking in everyday
>substances that will kill, maim or sicken you and the people at the
>health food stores are the ones "onto" it of course and the rest of the
>public is just being duped.
>speak of the fabric thingie...my husband knew a woman from a support
>group he was in when our daughter was born...she brought over a dress
>and some booties to match as a gift..well...she read the tag on the
>booties, found out they were polyester and took them back saying she
>"couldnt live with herself if she allowed a baby to have them next to
>her skin" because she had "read", in some health food store book natch,
>that polyester releases "toxins" into the skin(of course this woman very
>unnaturally  spent  her working days injecting water into peoples colons
>to "flush the toxins out"..yup she was a professional "colonic
>administrator)....PUUUULLLLEEZZZ....
>I am sorry , this is TOTALLY nonglass related..the fabric was just a
>jumping off point...but the whole Mickey Dees thingie is fresh in my
>mind and whenever I see "all natural" touted as somehow superior  it
>just sets off something wild in me that makes me wanna SCREAM.
>
>Liz
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 13:13:18 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:50:18 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.45018.0>
References: <<3784E2E6.7330559E@ix.netcom.com>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne Gunn wrote:
> 
> > > Oh, can you imagine wearing polyester????   Now thats a scary thought.
> > > ;o)  In more ways than one!
> >
> >
> >
> > oh I dont know...theres some pretty snazzy clothes out there that are
> > made of some pretty unnatural fabrics....and some of them are even
> > FASHIONABLE...we cant be clothing snobs, eh?
> 
> I didnt like them in '71 and I still dont.  And now my mother cant
> *make* me wear them.
> 
> Suzanne
> --
> 

oh I dunno...I sort of LIKED some of those seventies clothes....course I
HAVE been told I'm sort of tacky but hey, what do I care???

Liz
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 13:41:48 1999
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:15:04 -0400 
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.11154.0>
Precedence: bulk

Watching surgeons on TV get gloved has always struck me as absurd. 
How clean are the gloves of the person putting the glove on them?
Why can't they touch the gloves after they washed their hands?

As for me I'm basically self destructive. Play with my son in public
playgrounds. Swim in a non-chlorinated lake. And today I had a bacon Cheese
burger and onion rings for lunch. Can't you hear those arteries clogging?
Even use public rest rooms without disinfecting them.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com 

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	daver!one.net!kleeman [mailto:daver!one.net!kleeman]
		Sent:	Thursday, July 08, 1999 7:26 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: clothing and other safety: how much is
enough?

		do these people not realize they hold
		the outside of the glove, lay it on the dirty table, and put
it on to keep
		the are sterile??? DUH???
		have laughed about this for years
		debbie


		
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 13:43:52 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Suzanne Gunn" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:43:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.54341.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sorry Suzanne, I did not mean to attack you if that is how it came across.

I know wholesalers all have different rules.  Jurisdictions all have
different rules.  It really is a pain in the ....

Some of my stupid comments about paying taxes could be taken the wrong way
in retrospect.  Just ignore them please.

Just as a suggestion I have found in regards to local business licenses: I
used to live in an area with strong restrictions on home based businesses.
I could not get a local licence for my home business.  It sounds like you
are in a similar situation.

I could however register provincially as a business.  There is no way the
city was cross checking and even if they did, how would they know whether
the address on the provincial registration was a billing address or an
operational address?

Many (not all though) wholesalers accepted this.  Of course, those which had
a "store front" operation as part of their requirements would not (since I
in fact did not have a "store front").

Ill considered joke aside - the tax remarks were just saying that if one was
already paying business taxes then the additional paperwork was not too bad.

-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Dayle <dayle@cyberbeach.net>
Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 1:24 AM
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker


>Im too tired to answer this..
>Im tired of defending myself.
>Yes, I collect and pay sales tax when it is required.
>no, I dont have a separate business phone....
>
>Im legal.
>
>Suzanne
>--
>Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.
>
>                                       ----Harvey MacKay
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 14:49:15 1999
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:03:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.1335.0>
References: <<1999Jul12.2458.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Read today in a science magazine how dangerous bug zappers can be.  Seem the
bugs kind of explode and can spray parts in an area of two meters.  Plus
vaporize and float around.  So, to get this on topic, since many of us have
smallish work spaces, MOVE THE BUG ZAPPER OUT!!!!

of course, I am so delicous that I can just go outside and let designated
bug slappers smack the little things into the afterlife.  Although I don't
feel so good myself afterwards....;^}

Dorothy









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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 15:19:54 1999
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Flux brushes
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:30:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.133012.0>
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When we travel, we often stop into stained glass stores.  We'll say that
we're on vacation and saw the store and just wanted to see their
work...the store owners know we're not buying, but, you know, we often
have the best conversations...I always thank them for their time and am
complimentary about their work, and I often learn a great deal.

john just had an idea to revise a pattern, so I suppose I should stop
chatting and get to work...

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 15:42:19 1999
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From: "Tim Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Wholesale and Retail Glass Stores
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:06:05 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.765.0>
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Yes.  And I also appreciate that comparison shopping is a perfectly valid
and a smart thing to do.  I comparison shop.  I also go to multiple places
to compare features on different brands.

What I was talking about was people who take advantage of the retailers help
and time while never having the intent of possibly buying there.

I am in a different retail business than the original discussion: I run an
art gallery.  But I think some parallels can be made.  The worst case is the
person who takes huge amounts of my time (and therefore money since time is
money) looking at various pieces, writing down the name of the artists, etc.
And then they leave and go look up the artist in the phone book and contact
that person to see if they will pull the piece of art from the gallery and
sell it at a lower price direct.

Luckily most of our artists recognise this hurts them in the long run.  They
rarely agree and for that I thank them and I know we are in a lucky position
to have such honest artists.

-----Original Message-----
From: Modiano, Victor <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 8:45 AM
Subject: RE: Wholesale and Retail Glass Stores


>Tim
>
>Hopefully you also recognize and appreciate those who come back to buy
after
>not buying anything.
...


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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 15:51:31 1999
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: charles@warner-criv.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: ng, charles' post re: retailers and flux brushes and being
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:14:13 EDT
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In a message dated 7/7/99 3:13:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
charles@warner-criv.com writes:

> I'm still getting fitted for my asbestos suit,

I'm a bit concerned about the fashion sense of the men on bungi.  One with a 
glass tutu and now another with an asbestos suit.  

IA
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 16:05:09 1999
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
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Subject: NG Medical questions
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:20:44 -0400
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rrk wrote:

>  they're not even in the medical
> textbooks.  I know because I looked and I was trained in a related field so
> I have access to such books.

I want to put on my medical librarian hat now.  Medical information is available
to all, and easier to come by than ever.  Consumer medical information is "HOT"
right now and as a result, even public libraries have more than they used to,
both in terms of materials and in assistance with tough questions.

You can search the medical literature online (Search for PubMed on your
browser), log into the catalogs of the libraries at medical schools, then ask
your public library to get what you need on interlibrary loan (if you don't go
to the medical library yourself!)

There's a lot on the internet, too, although you have to be careful.  Many
organizations have useful websites, though.  Try the sites for organizations
like the American Heart Association or American Cancer Society.

Don't think you have to be a doctor or a nurse to get "that stuff".

Dorothy (who does medical interlibrary loan for a large medical school in her
other life)



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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 16:37:44 1999
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X-Path: fastlane.net!byronw
From: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:18:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.121842.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey All...

I missed some or most of this discussion as my @#$%^&*(*&  former ISP died
again and I got bumped off bungi for the umpteenth time... Needless to say I
now have a new service....

Anyway I had the same problems when I started in business 2 years ago...
Hardly anyone would even talk to me without a Yellow pages ad...If I was
running a retail store I could see it but not a home studio... Just to much
money per month... I did get started tho with Lincoln Distributers.. They
only required $5 for postage, a copy of my sales tax license and a $600
opening order... I had no prob with that.... Once I had made several $600
plus orders under my belt other wholesalers started giving me a break when I
faxed invoice copies to them proving I was a REAL business and not a
hobbyist trying to get a discount.....There is only 1 wholesaler that to
this day wont do business with me cause of the yellow page deal but in my
opinion its THIER loss....

Most I've found also do require a minimum spent per year to keep you and
thats fine since most are only $1000 per year... If yer really in a business
then that shouldnt be a problem...It costs them money to put out
catalogs,sale flyers etc and if people dont spend enough then its not worth
it to them...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks


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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 17:38:24 1999
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From: Rita Tidwell <tidwell2@bellsouth.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: grinding
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 19:10:54 -0400
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Forgot who gave the tip on grinding all edges lightly before getting
serious but thanks, with a little caution I don't have to wrap my
fingers anymore.

Sorry about your bad day Jerri. I'm still laughing about your trip to
the store for necessities,snuff, baccy, etc. I'm sure many are still in
the dark but I'm in nw GA and can relate perfectly. Rita

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 17:57:30 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: copyrights and Geocities/Yahoo
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 10:26:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul2.62613.0>
References: <<1999Jul1.93520.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

rrk wrote:
> 
> Hello Debbie.  This is not a flame ... but some things in
> your email bear
> correcting.  This might seem like a flame, but believe me
> this is not.  I
> reserve that for special and very rare occasions (which this
> is not), like when
> someone attacks me and I stand to lose something.
> 
> daver!one.net!kleeman@earthlink.net wrote:
> 
> > i don't know if this is correct or not,
> 
> it is not correct
> 
> > but the when i asked the computer nerd i live with about this (he is a
> > programmer)
> 
> So what?  I do computer programming too, as do other people
> on this list (at
> least one that I'm certain of).  What experience does he
> have with legal
> matters?  I have quite a bit.  Most of the programmers I
> know wouldn't know a
> whereof from a therein <smile>.  Besides that ... I not only
> know how to read
> the English language but I speak of what I know and have
> verified before I give
> an opinion on a legal issue.  Why don't you print out the
> following excerpt from
> the Yahoo TOS in question (now apparently changed in some
> minor details), which
> he evidently never read (or didn't understand) before he
> gave the opinion you
> quoted him on, and see if he doesn't change his mind.  I'll
> bet he DOES change
> his mind once he READS the TOS in question.
> 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 8. CONTENT SUBMITTED TO YAHOO
> 
> By submitting Content to any Yahoo property, you
> automatically grant, or warrant that the owner of
> such Content has expressly granted, Yahoo the
> royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive
> and fully sublicensable right and license to use,
> reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate,
> create derivative works from, distribute, perform
> and display such Content (in whole or part)
> worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works
> in any form, media, or technology now known or
> later developed.
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> > he said it is a disclaimer for yahoo to not get sued--
> 
> The above is NOT a "disclaimer" ... sorry.  It SPECIFICALLY
> lays claims to any
> and all works placed on their servers.
> 
> That *may* have been Yahoo's ORIGINAL intent.  But their
> *intent* is something
> known only to the Master of the Universe.  What counts, is
> what they WROTE.
> 
> In law, the only thing that counts is what is in black and
> white and signed.
> What the Yahoo TOS SAYS, in black and white, is that THEY
> can do ANYTHING THEY
> WANT with ANYTHING you put on their server *if* you
> expressly agree to it.  THAT
> is what counts.
> 
> OK?
> 
> You do not have to be an attorney to figure that one out.
> 
> > for example, if someone copies something off of mike's site, mike cannot sue
> > yahoo for copyright infringement---
> 
> If that were their intent ... then why doesn't their TOS say
> so?  Instead, their
> TOS says something VERY different.
> 
> > even though it sounds like you are getting the shaft, yahoo is trying to
> > protect themselves
> 
> Unfortunately for this point of view, their TOS allows them
> to do whatever they
> want with any and all your works at their discretion ...
> just a wee bit more
> than "just trying to protect themselves".
> 
> > now, please don't flame me on any of these, i am only relaying what i was
> > told the computer industry feels is happening - IT IS MY OPINION - and only
> > my opinion
> 
> Debbie ... when you (or anyone else) express an opinion in a
> public forum,
> particularly on a legal matter that affects a lot of people,
> you must be
> prepared to defend it.  If you don't like that, then don't
> express opinions.
> There are (at last report) some 650+ people on this mailing
> list ... this is a
> public forum no matter how relaxed and laid back it may
> seem.
> 
> For example, look at Albert Lewis' writings and see how
> carefully they are
> worded.  He's a good writer too. (That is an opinion I feel
> confident no one
> will disagree with.)  It is clear that HE knows this is a
> public forum. <G>
> 
> I bite my tongue quite often when tempted to express an
> opinion in a public
> forum on legal issues, politically charged issues, and/or
> issues with religious
> import, because such expression would require me to defend
> said opinion and I
> decide quite frequently its just not worth the effort.  Most
> people don't really
> want to know anyone else's opinion in the first place and
> simply get emotional
> when you disagree with them even if they haven't actually
> expressed their
> opinion.  For example, I completely disagree with the
> idiotic opinion expressed
> by that American ex-patriate living in Mexico.  I have lived
> in Mexico myself (a
> summer) and returned many times since as well as Europe (12
> years) and visited
> much of North, West and Central Africa, South America and
> Asia (mostly for
> teaching) so I have a right to an opinion on the subject.
> Instead I chose not
> to express an opinion on that subject.
> 
> THIS issue (Yahoo/Geocities) is different and I chose to
> speak up (a little)
> because Mike Savaad, who has given a lot to the online
> stained glass community,
> is in a tight spot.
> 
> Actually, if I were in Mike's shoes [HINT HINT HINT HINT
> HINT], I'd shut down
> the Geocities site and get a virtual server at OLM or
> WEBAXXS.  For $15/month
> you get 400 MB of server storage (thats actually quite a
> lot) and around 5 GB
> transfer per month (thats a lot of GB's btw) +  other stuff
> I won't get into.
> They're extremely reliable and the cheapest around.  Not to
> mention that THEY
> get all the non-negligible hassles of running a server.
> I've been using them
> for some time now.  Further, Geocities is a TERRIBLE outfit.
> 
> OK ... way past time to go ..... regards to all
> (particularly Debbie <G>)
> ........ Bob
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah but then i'd have to pay for it. and since i'm not making any money
i would'nt want to pay for it... got to the newsgroup
alt.homepages.geocities there's been quite a bit of talk about this....

now i have re-write some of my site and upload it else where.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 18:29:14 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Tim Atwood <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Flux brushes big profit maker
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 19:33:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.143333.0>
References: <<1999Jul8.54341.0>>
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No problem Tim.  I didnt feel like you were attacking me.  Mostly I felt
attacked by Dayle.

I was surprised by the twist this thread took, and I took the bait.  My
own fault.

The only reason I got involved in this thread to begin with was because 
I like and respect both Albert Lewis and Charles Warner.

My comments were only in defense of them.

Somehow someone got the idea that I dont buy from retailers, and bitch
and moan for not being able to buy wholesale.  Im aware that I dont fit 
most wholesalers criterial...I can live with that for the moment.

I work at home, have my kids at home, and am happy.  Thats what matters
to me.

At this point in time, I wouldnt know what to do with a store front if I
had one.  

I will continue to shop where ever I want...that is the beauty of having 
a choice.  Actually, I buy more from friend*s* I have made on bungi than
from anyone.  Cant imagine why another bungian would have a problem 
with that.  

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 18:36:49 1999
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From: "Tim Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: <CncptThnkr@aol.com>, <charles@warner-criv.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: ng, charles' post re: retailers and flux brushes and being
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:03:05 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.1035.0>
Precedence: bulk

Now were did I put that chicken suit and the trapeze?

-----Original Message-----
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com <CncptThnkr@aol.com>
To: charles@warner-criv.com <charles@warner-criv.com>; glass@bungi.com
<glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 4:02 PM
Subject: ng, charles' post re: retailers and flux brushes and being


>I'm a bit concerned about the fashion sense of the men on bungi.  One with
a
>glass tutu and now another with an asbestos suit.
>
...

----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 19:53:19 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:CncptThnkr@aol.com" <CncptThnkr@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: bungi fashion
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 21:41:15 -0400
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Message text written by INTERNET:CncptThnkr@aol.com
>fashion sense of the men on bungi.<

What about the women??  We have one who
solders in the moonlight buck nekked!  And you
thought the Emperor had nice clothes..... :-D

Hahahaha,

Dani
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 20:16:24 1999
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X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@island.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: ring safety/horror stories (NG)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:01:57 -0700
Message-ID: <199907090201.TAA15931@mimas.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

This story is prompted by Suzanne's experience with her "hot" ring and by
the following: 
>with the rings.... makes sense...I also remember being told by several
>different types of athletic coach not to wear rings during the event in
>case I broke a finger the ring would casue the finger to swell, possibly
>injuring it more AND I would have to have the ring cut off.....I still
>keep my rings on when I work with horses though..I dont feel like taking
>them off and on, off and on all the time...only time I take em off is
>when I work with raw meat to keep from collecting salmonella....

Back in the days when I still did Fisheries field work I'd just been
married, so returned to my 3 week stint in the bush wearing, for the first
time ever, rings, because I was stupidly (but understandably) feeling
sentimental.  We were beach seining on a remote BC river to apply tags to
spawning fish and my rings got caught in the netting as I was trying to
untangle a large dog salmon.  As luck would have it, the guy on the beach
forgot to secure the end of the seine.  So, me, the fish, the rings and the
seine net were drifting swiftly downstream towards some nasty looking
rapids. My knife was on the beach so I couldn't cut myself free.  It was a
choice between losing the rings or losing my life...managed to get a fold of
net under my arm and remove the rings freeing myself from the net.  Rings
went south with the net and with the fish...they were never replaced and
I've never worn rings since. They're downright dangerous, no matter what
you're doing.  

Funny thing is, all the family's heirloom rings seem to end up in my
possession. :)

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
http://come.to/The_E-Tour

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 20:23:06 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: my page
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:32:23 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.183223.0>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
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i decided to stay on geocities, due to the fact yahoo changed the TOS
back. i updated the page, it's a small update - just a bunch of new
links.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 21:01:31 1999
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:34:10 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990708223410.006b6854@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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	The purpose of the gloves are to prevent the spread of hepatitis...
only... they will not and are not intended to prevent the transfer of other
types of bacteria causing food born illness.   Good food handling
procedures should be practiced with or without gloves.
	Within a short time period of donning the gloves one will be able to find
the same bacteria one would expect to find on ungloved hands.    From what
you describe she  put on a fresh pair of gloves before she made your
sandwich.... that is a good sign.
 	There is a very large difference between "sterile" and "sanitized" or
"sanitary".   

Barbara
	

>hands inside, then made the sandwich---do these people not realize they hold
>the outside of the glove, lay it on the dirty table, and put it on to keep
>the are sterile??? DUH???
>have laughed about this for years
>debbie
>
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 21:35:44 1999
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From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: ng, charles' post re: retailers and flux brushes and being
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:45:36 -0400
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References: <<1999Jul8.1035.0>>
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And another one that likes "tacky"  "70's" polyester clothing...
>
>>I'm a bit concerned about the fashion sense of the men on bungi.  One with
>a
>>glass tutu and now another with an asbestos suit.
>>
>...
>
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 22:30:42 1999
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: buying wholesale
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 23:00:32 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.7032.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for the tip, Bob. Will try it.


Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Duchesneau <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>; Shakeel Abedi <shakeel@tm.net.my>
Date: Friday, July 09, 1999 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: buying wholesale


|>>I take two diffrent colors and full fuse them. And viola! I have a color
I
|never imagined before
|Warm Regards
|
|Shakeel Abedi<<
|
|Here is a tip that you may like. Seeing as art glass comes at a huge
premium
|in your country it would be good if you used every scrap of glass. By
|grinding up your left over scraps you can make frit that then be fused on
a
|piece of compatable clear or colored glass. The frit can be sifted by
size.
|You can get some great effects this way and by wasting not want not.
|
|.....Bob (the cool one)
|
|Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
|Check it out:
|http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm
|
|----
|For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
|To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
|Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
|

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From owner-glass Thu Jul  8 23:31:14 1999
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X-Path: cros.net!soraya
From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: ng, charles' post re: retailers and flux brushes and being
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 01:13:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul8.211322.0>
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>>>I'm a bit concerned about the fashion sense of the men on bungi.  One
with
>>a glass tutu and now another with an asbestos suit

But remember....there is hope....we also have men in kilts!!!

Soraya

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 01:06:06 1999
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:19:39 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.161939.0>
References: <<1999Jul8.11154.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

Modiano, Victor wrote:
> 
> Watching surgeons on TV get gloved has always struck me as absurd.
> How clean are the gloves of the person putting the glove on them?
> Why can't they touch the gloves after they washed their hands?
> 
> As for me I'm basically self destructive. Play with my son in public
> playgrounds. Swim in a non-chlorinated lake. And today I had a bacon Cheese
> burger and onion rings for lunch. Can't you hear those arteries clogging?
> Even use public rest rooms without disinfecting them.
> 
>

oh Vic you are a man after my own heart:) I get into all KINDS of filthy
unsanitary stuff. Buy my food at the plain old grocery store instead of
one of those "certified organic" palaces....yeah I wash my produce but I
am not going to lose sleep over it either....I dont line the seat of the
public toilets with paper before I sit down either( i have a funny story
about my mothers friend who got her purse snatched while she was busy
hovering over the seat becasue she wouldnt sit down on it, oh no, not
even with a TP crown on it to protect her tender buttocks from the
germies....she was paying so much attention to not actually letting her
skin touch the seat, while still getting everything in that needed to go
in, that she somehow missed the guy trotting around and sticking a hook
over the doors to snag dangling purses..and she had to repeat the whole
story to the nice security people at JC Penneys to try and recover the
missing purse..see what happens when you are protecting yourself from
miniscule risks?) And gosh...I am a card carrying member of PETA (that
People Eating Tasty Animals BTW....not what you probably THINK it stands
for:)) love those steaks and ribs...mmmmm..they beat tofu any day....

Liz
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 01:22:43 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:24:37 -0700
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Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
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Family Account wrote:
> 
> Read today in a science magazine how dangerous bug zappers can be.  Seem the
> bugs kind of explode and can spray parts in an area of two meters.  Plus
> vaporize and float around.  So, to get this on topic, since many of us have
> smallish work spaces, MOVE THE BUG ZAPPER OUT!!!!
> 
> of course, I am so delicous that I can just go outside and let designated
> bug slappers smack the little things into the afterlife.  Although I don't
> feel so good myself afterwards....;^}
> 
> Dorothy
> 
> I have heard about this.....and did you also know that aerosols (thats fancy for spray) can spew into the air as you flush your toilet and if your sink (and therefore toothbrush and cup) are too close they can get a nasty dose of microbes from the flushing toilet?/ Now isnt THAT a happy thought.....not sure what is recommended to do about it...my mother told me this...she of the bubble bath for the chicken before you cook it.  She also carries around those little hand sanitizers (which actually encourage more mutations of bacteria BTW which is why I wont use them) along with a miniature can of lysol in her purse to spray around on things in our old friends, the public restrooms.....

Liz
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 06:49:57 1999
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From: Sue Prullage <stepsue@ezl.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: retail stores
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:24:58 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.12458.0>
Organization: stainedglassdesign.com
Precedence: bulk

I live in a small town in Illinois.  We have one retail shop in the
area.  I became good friends with the owner (we even went on vacation
together) but whenever I would talk about teaching classes or enlarging
my scope in glass she would get angry.  Well the friendship is gone now
and now I teach and sell to my students.  So I understand secrecy in the
business.  I have vowed not to do it, I will be a mentor to anyone who
wants to learn.  That is part of being a good artist isn't it?  Sue
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From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: 3-D figure lamp instructions
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:05:15 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.13515.0>
Precedence: bulk


 A few months ago there was a discussion about those awesome 3-D lamps 
constructed in animal shapes. Are there any instructions or directions or 
kits for making these? Just curious...

Laura
HiimLaura@aol.com
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From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 06:38:44 -0600
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I never have heard of the tapping thing.  Interesting?!  cj

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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?
Date: Fri Jul  9 07:00:27 1999
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.43827.0>
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barbara
thank you for your explanation...i do understand all this....i was being
funny, but guess i grossly failed
debbie
    what happened to the fun and humor that used to be on this list?





debbie taylor
kleeman@one.net
http://www.taylordexpressions.com
your complete stained glass supply source
1-888-488-9616
-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, July 09, 1999 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?


> The purpose of the gloves are to prevent the spread of hepatitis...
>only... they will not and are not intended to prevent the transfer of other
>types of bacteria causing food born illness.   Good food handling
>procedures should be practiced with or without gloves.
> Within a short time period of donning the gloves one will be able to find
>the same bacteria one would expect to find on ungloved hands.    From what
>you describe she  put on a fresh pair of gloves before she made your
>sandwich.... that is a good sign.
> There is a very large difference between "sterile" and "sanitized" or
>"sanitary".
>
>Barbara
>
>
>>hands inside, then made the sandwich---do these people not realize they
hold
>>the outside of the glove, lay it on the dirty table, and put it on to keep
>>the are sterile??? DUH???
>>have laughed about this for years
>>debbie
>>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 08:28:17 1999
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'Sue Prullage' <stepsue@ezl.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: retail stores
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:50:06 -0400 
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Sue 

Not only is it part of being a good artist, it is part of being a growing
artist.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctonsoft.com

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Sue Prullage [mailto:stepsue@ezl.com]
		Sent:	Friday, July 09, 1999 9:25 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: retail stores

		I will be a mentor to anyone who wants to learn.  That is
part of being a good artist isn't it?  Sue
		

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sue </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Not only is it part of being a good =
artist, it is part of being a growing artist.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctonsoft.com</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Sue Prullage [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:stepsue@ezl.com">mailto:stepsue@ezl.com</A>]</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Friday, July 09, 1999 9:25 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Re: retail stores</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I will be a mentor to anyone =
who</FONT><U><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"></FONT></U> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">wants to learn.&nbsp; That is part of being a good =
artist isn't it?&nbsp; Sue</FONT>
<BR>
</P>
</UL></UL>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 09:06:33 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: HiimLaura@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: 3-D figure lamp instructions
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:05:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.7510.0>
References: <<1999Jul9.13515.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

HiimLaura@aol.com wrote:
> 
>  A few months ago there was a discussion about those awesome 3-D lamps
> constructed in animal shapes. Are there any instructions or directions or
> kits for making these? Just curious...
> 
> Laura
> HiimLaura@aol.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


not that i know of, in fact i still hav'nt gotten a response back from
that guy.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 09:43:11 1999
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From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: "'HiimLaura@aol.com'" <HiimLaura@aol.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: 3-D figure lamp instructions
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:14:27 -0400 
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Rumor has it the artist is coming out with an instructional book but I
haven't heard anything else.
You can always e-mail him. His address was on the website. 

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	HiimLaura@aol.com [mailto:HiimLaura@aol.com]
		Sent:	Friday, July 09, 1999 9:05 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	3-D figure lamp instructions


		 A few months ago there was a discussion about those awesome
3-D lamps 
		constructed in animal shapes. Are there any instructions or
directions or 
		kits for making these? Just curious...

		Laura
		HiimLaura@aol.com
		----
		For subscription changes, please mail to:
glass-request@bungi.com
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		Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Rumor has it the artist is coming out =
with an instructional book but I haven't heard anything else.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">You can always e-mail him. His =
address was on the website. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; =
HiimLaura@aol.com [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:HiimLaura@aol.com">mailto:HiimLaura@aol.com</A>]</FONT></=
B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Friday, July 09, 1999 9:05 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">3-D figure lamp instructions</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp;A few months ago there was a =
discussion about those awesome 3-D lamps </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">constructed in animal shapes. Are =
there any instructions or directions or </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">kits for making these? Just =
curious...</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Laura</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">HiimLaura@aol.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For subscription changes, please mail =
to: glass-request@bungi.com</FONT>
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list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: =
glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Archives available at <A =
HREF=3D"http://www.bungi.com/glass" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></FONT>
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 12:10:38 1999
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From: "Dawn Barker" <dbarker@sk.sympatico.ca>
To: "Glasslist" <glass@bungi.com>
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:55:33 -0600
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I am switching isp's and will temporarily need to switch my address to 
dmbarker66@hotmail.com

Thanks!

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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Sue Prullage" <stepsue@ezl.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: retail stores
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:06:33 -0700
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>>So I understand secrecy in the
business.  I have vowed not to do it, I will be a mentor to anyone who
wants to learn.  That is part of being a good artist isn't it?  Sue<<

At the risk of drawing a lot of heat, I will say that I do not think that
mentoring is part of being a good artist. Most top artists that I can think
of are not known for sharing. On the other hand a good artist has little to
fear from one who is willing to learn from them and might well learn
something in return. I think that many of the more secretative people have
little to teach and so hold it closely.

.....Bob (celabrating over 90 days wihtout a spellchacker)

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm

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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Wacking glass
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:17:48 -0700
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>>I never have heard of the tapping thing.  Interesting?!  cj<<

Wonderfull simply wonderfull! The message is getting through! Beating on
glass is a way to break it in random ways and not in a controlled fashion.
Tapping should only be resorted to when other methods fail. If course, that
reference to vibration was intersting and bears looking into.

.....Bob (celabrating over 90 days wihtout a spellchacker)

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm

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Subject: Fwd: 3-D figure lamp instructions
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:21:47 EDT
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The reason I ask is because I saw someone at a craft show last weekend who 
had two of them - small ones - one I think was of a sitting ox - and they 
looked (peculiarly enough) as if they were not made by the person who was 
selling them - the soldering, patina, etc. on the items that were obviously 
made by this crafter were different than that on the ox. Purchased? So much 
for so called juried shows...

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 13:35:30 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: E's workshop at Meredith
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 14:11:50 -0500
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Who is doing the workshop at Meredith Aug 13-15th,  Besides me and
Lenore?

Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 14:56:14 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 21:24:48 +0000
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Ah, yes!!!
We also have men in glass tutu's.......   ;->

Elisabeth 'n  stay-at-homeToby in UK (3 weeks to go!!!)



> >>>I'm a bit concerned about the fashion sense of the men on bungi.  One
> with
> >>a glass tutu and now another with an asbestos suit
> 
> But remember....there is hope....we also have men in kilts!!!
> 
> Soraya
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 16:54:58 1999
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Ah, yes!!!
We also have men in glass tutu's.......   ;->

Elisabeth 'n  stay-at-homeToby in UK (3 weeks to go!!!)



> >>>I'm a bit concerned about the fashion sense of the men on bungi.  One
> with
> >>a glass tutu and now another with an asbestos suit
> 
> But remember....there is hope....we also have men in kilts!!!
> 
> Soraya
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 17:15:50 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Sparks 'n witchcraft???????
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Hi All,

Despite many odds, Sparks and I met up in London town, had lunch 
together and spent a hot few hours around the Royal Festival Hall on 
the South Bank of the River Thames in London.
Authorities and weather allowing, she is now stalking ghosts and 
ghoulies around Stonehenge, before further jorneying to Dartmouth in 
the West Country. 

We had a VERY "interesting" encounter with a car park attendant in 
London, but I will let her tell you the story herself (SHE saw the 
funny side!!!).
The concerts in London went exceedingly well and according to Sparks, 
Christie has already been afforded "sainthood". (Hey Christie... 
really looking forward to meeting up with you!!!)

My input to Bungi will decrease more and more, as the panic sets in 
about my departure for USA in just over 3 weeks time. I am so much 
looking forward to meeting up with you personally, face to face, with 
whom I have struck up such a rapport and friendship over these last 
few years.

I am equally looking forward to showing you many alternative and 
simple ways to work in lead during the lead workshops I will be 
holding across the width and breadth of USA. It's going to be a 
team-work and me working with you, rather than talking AT you.
So don't forget
Jenna Meredith (Maryland)  TWICE in August
Kansas City 10/12 September
Seattle 18/19 September
Florida  25/26 September (Lenore/lee Boe to agree venue)

All details should be available on the special E-Tour web-site that 
Pamela Burns-Tappan has created.

If you want to join a workshop at  any of these venue and have 
problems getting details between now and 30th July, please e-mail me 
directly off-Group and I will try and help.

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 17:35:01 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: All you hot glasser's  check this out
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 13:36:25 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.63625.0>
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http://www.njmgallery.com/pages/t_sand.html
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 17:49:45 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: NG Medical questions
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 21:24:48 +0000
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Thank you Dorothy,

I just would like to emphasize this point - and in deed - this truth.
Some of you may remember that a couple of years ago I fought a legal 
battle on behalf of a friend of mine (Susan) about occupational 
disability.
I posted a plea for help on Bungi and the FLOODS of information, 
references and help I got was just unbelievable. It took me the best 
part of a year to sift through all the references I received through 
You Bunch and Monona Rossol. I received inches and inches of written 
material via snail mail mainly from her, but also from a number of 
you in Bungi.
I was better informed than the UK Government judiciary/medical panel 
that adjudicated Susan's case, with the result that we won her case.
Have I forgotten???
Oh no!!
It's all out there - and, yes, it's HOT!
Elisabeth 'n  stay-at-home-Toby in UK

Dorothy wrote:

> rrk wrote:
> 
> >  they're not even in the medical
> > textbooks.  I know because I looked and I was trained in a related field so
> > I have access to such books.
> 
> I want to put on my medical librarian hat now.  Medical information is available
> to all, and easier to come by than ever.  Consumer medical information is "HOT"
> right now and as a result, even public libraries have more than they used to,
> both in terms of materials and in assistance with tough questions.
> 
> You can search the medical literature online (Search for PubMed on your
> browser), log into the catalogs of the libraries at medical schools, then ask
> your public library to get what you need on interlibrary loan (if you don't go
> to the medical library yourself!)
> 
> There's a lot on the internet, too, although you have to be careful.  Many
> organizations have useful websites, though.  Try the sites for organizations
> like the American Heart Association or American Cancer Society.
> 
> Don't think you have to be a doctor or a nurse to get "that stuff".
> 
> Dorothy (who does medical interlibrary loan for a large medical school in her
> other life)
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 18:07:05 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 21:24:48 +0000
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Hi all,

Below was an e-mail Suzanne Gunn sent to me off-Group. But because I 
am really wicked, I thought I would just reply to Bungi.
She asked me what tools to bring for the lead workshops.
My answer was 
- a dinner knife
- some wooden clothes pegs
- a tooth brush
- a hard nail brush
-  and some other things (I've forgotten the exact list now...).
Wooden clothes pegs is what in Europe you clip your wet clothes on a 
washing line with to dry after you have washed them. They consist of 
2 flat pieces of wood with rouned edges on one side and held together 
with a metal spring.
It occurred to me that your washing pegs might be different in USA 
from the ones we use over here. Oh well! Chuck in some English wooden 
washing pegs into the suitcase as well!
Just in case!!!  ;-> The USA Customs people WILL have a big surprise 
when I land.....

Elisabeth 'n beginning-to-get-grumpy Toby in UK ( 3 weeks to go!!!)


> Elisabeth has been saying :o)
> I keep thinking of fortune tellers everytime she says that! ;o)
> 
> I cant help but *see* her with big gold hoop earings a flashy scarf, 
> peasant top and flouncy skirt....oh yes, and not to forget the coin 
> necklace! ;o)
> 
> I cant wait to find out what job she has in store for my butter knife!
> ;o)
> 
> Now I need to determine if I can carry all the things I will need on the
> airplane or if I need to get in early enough to find a "home depot"
> near Meredith! ;o)
> 
> Can anyone tell me what a wooden clothes peg is?
> Im sooooo excited! 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 18:24:26 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: bungi fashion
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 21:24:48 +0000
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Huh!?
What was that!?
Who is this Dani talking about???
Just as well nobody can see me NOW, hot 'n sweaty in front of the 
computer and the inventory list of what to take to USA
The Emperor would have taken fright, had a heart attack and died, had 
he seen......

Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home-Toby in UK

Dani said
> Message text written by INTERNET:CncptThnkr@aol.com
> >fashion sense of the men on bungi.<
> 
> What about the women??  We have one who
> solders in the moonlight buck nekked!  And you
> thought the Emperor had nice clothes..... :-D
> 
> Hahahaha,
> 
> Dani
unquote> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 18:34:07 1999
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: If you want to see the 3-D art
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:08:33 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.8833.0>
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Please check this site out
http://www.stainedglasslamps.com/
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 18:45:15 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: "AA_Instar Glass" <glass@intrastar.net>,
Subject: Hot Glass Beads
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:02:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.8231.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Hot Glasser's,

I am the grateful receiver of a HotHead Torch. It was given to me by a very
wonderful person who shall remain nameless, until they decide to reveal
themselves, or give me permission to tell ;-). Also got a few packs of some
beautiful glass rods ;-)

I have been trying it out, doing a very basic beads with Spectrum glass
strips, and seem to be getting the idea of how to melt and smooth, and all
that, got a crock pot with perlite in it for cooling the beads, only one
small little problem, how do you get the beads off the mandrels once they
are cool ??? :-(

I am using copper coated plain steel rods coated with sludge bead release, I
dried the release in the flame like the jar said.

They look nice, I guess that I could add some re-strip, and have glass body
butterfly garden sticks,,,

Although that does not do much for figuring out how to make beads,,,

Tried the Dichroic, the HotHead is not hot enough to get a full fuse,
although it is better than the plumbers torch.

Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://glass.intrastar.net




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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 19:43:36 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: <TBlyleven@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Stained glass suppliers in OC
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:35:49 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.73549.0>
References: <<71527253.24b7c06e@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Okay, dug up their catalog


Beveldine/Came Craft Inc.
12282 Monarch St.
Garden Grove, CA
92841

(714)894-8779
(714) 379-9072
Outside California-800-379-9072
fax (714) 379-9075

Hours open
Mon-Fri 9-5
Sat. 9-2



Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://glass.intrastar.net


----- Original Message -----
From: <TBlyleven@aol.com>
To: <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 02:15 PM
Subject: Re: Stained glass suppliers in OC


> okay bud, I tried to find the number for Belveldine/came crafts with no
> sucess! I would like to go tomorrow, Saturday, but need to know their
address
> and phone number. Sorry to bug u so on this, but can u get it for me?
> nani


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 19:46:36 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Alan Thomas" <gonoles@surfsouth.com>
Subject: Hi all!
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:35:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.133522.0>
Precedence: bulk

I purposely didn't label this email with "virus warning", as I figured half
of you would delete it before even reading.
Someone emailed the Worm Virus to me today, with the subject matter
"Happy99.exe" or something like that. The sender's name was Rita Tidwell. My
Norton Anti-Virus alerted me to it before I opened it.
Since I am on two stained glass mailing lists, I'm used to receiving email
from people I don't know, so it wasn't out of the ordinary for me to click
on the letter.
Just be careful, and if you don't have a virus protection program, get one.

I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
me to wait.
 Thanks... Mary


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 20:08:03 1999
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Fashion sense
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 19:54:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.155443.0>
Precedence: bulk

Long ago, when computers were huge and filled with reed switches, I had
a summer job with IBM, in a department called "Reed switch
post-adjust".  It involved putting the switches in a little round
heater, heating the glass until it was "soft" and adjusting the leaves
of the switch inside.  It's the molten glass part that's important here
(also the fact that I was once in the Smithsonain and there was a reed
switch in an exhibit and I began to laugh like a crazy person.  I'm
ready for the walker now, Pa.)  At that time, mini skirts were all the
vogue.  Imagine how long wearing min-skirts to work lasted...A few
switches in the lap cured me of THAT.  (And riding on my boyfriend's
motorcycle...)
So now I wear a heavy apron when I solder.  Protects my clothes and
tender parts.  I imagine kilt wearers and tut wearers might want to
invest in an apron as well.  Asbestos suits need no assistance, and as
for the chicken suit...it depends what you plan on doing with that
trapeze.

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 20:22:33 1999
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X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro
From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: Bob Duchesneau <bobdu@prodigy.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wacking glass
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:56:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.115641.0>
References: <<1999Jul9.41748.0@[207.126.97.2]>>
Organization: SBWSA
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Bob,
  Stop celabrating and use spell check.  My turn not to use it.

  Carol T

Bob Duchesneau wrote:

> >>I never have heard of the tapping thing.  Interesting?!  cj<<
>
> Wonderfull simply wonderfull! The message is getting through! Beating on
> glass is a way to break it in random ways and not in a controlled fashion.
> Tapping should only be resorted to when other methods fail. If course, that
> reference to vibration was intersting and bears looking into.
>
> .....Bob (celabrating over 90 days wihtout a spellchacker)
>
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 20:36:40 1999
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: clothing and other safety: 
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 16:16:28 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.91628.0>
References: <<1999Jul12.45018.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I don't know about open flame, but polyester resists flux alot better
than cotton does.  My make my work aprons out of a polyester blend.  And
that was after I had eaten up serval moo moo's and cleaning diapers(it
is still the best material for polishing your finished work).
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 20:44:08 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, ahaynie@cchat.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: clothing and other safety: how much is enough?
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:07:09 -0700
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Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
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> Liz, I heard that are suppose to close the lid before you flush.
> 
> 
> 
duh...thats pretty obvious.......ya learn something new every day, even
at my age...tee hee


Liz
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 20:58:52 1999
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: People Eating Tasty Animals
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:02:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul13.923.0>
References: <<BF25963478F6D1118A3200A0C9B425236C6AFE@corpntex01.ctronsoft.com>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

Modiano, Victor wrote:
> 
> Liz
> 
> Glad you mentioned People Eating Tasty Animals. I've got a big problem
> with their web page.
> Where are the recipes???  Who wants to eat raw animal? That's why we
> have fire.
> Actually had moose burgers and venison hod dogs over fourth of July.
> (My wife's cousin
> went up to Canada and bagged a moose last fall. I'm invited next time
> but at $3000 US
> plus transportation it ain't too likely.)
> 
> Let me know who to contact to join the good PETA?
> 
> Vic M.
> 
>           

oops...thats actually a joke...PETA officially stands for "People for
the ethical treatment of animals"...they run around pouring paint on
people in furs, discouraging animals research (although I have yet to
meet one who would turn down drugs developed on animals to treat their
own life threatening illnesses as an act of protest....such as Mary
Tyler Moore who I dont see turning down insulin because its availability
depended on animal research yet she is one of the most prominent
celebrity "animal rights" types around she took out all these ads up in
Maine about cruelty to lobsters) and trying to convince everyone that
they really dont miss turkey at Thanksgiving while they are eating tofu
shaped and flavored like the real thing.  When I was on vacation a
friends husband made a joke about PETA "really" standing for People
eating tasty animals and I thought it was so funny I repeated it.  Sorry
if I confused you and led you on a fruitless web search.... 
and dont EVEN get me going on the anti hunters....I live up in Idaho and
theres plenty of hunting here except for the odd "activist" who has too
much time on their hands. I dont think we were meant to subsist on roots
and berries...and having been in a slaughterhouse (a memory I needed to
have die down before I could stomach a hot dog for quite a while...hot
dogs are the garbage dump of the meat industry) let me tell you, its a
whole lot more humane to cleanly shoot an animal than what goes on in
the commercial meat packing industry. I dont know what they have all
their panties in a wad about so much.....I know people who wont eat meat
but have closets full of leather shoes.....


Liz
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 21:45:25 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Tapping Glass
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 23:40:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.19409.0>
Precedence: bulk

Bearing in mind that I'm very new to glass, I'll explain what I learned
about glass tapping.
We were told (and I do quite often) that on deep inside curves, to hold the
glass with the thumb, ring finger and index finger. The trick is NOT to
allow the glass to rest on the area between the thumb and index finger, as
this will "muffle" the vibration. Balancing the glass, we tap on the
innermost curve several times. Not WHACK for the purpose of breaking it, but
tapping it. The sound you hear is almost like one would hear when tapping
the edge of a glass as is done when announcing a toast at a dinner. It
sounds melodic, not like a thud.
The result is almost like using running pliers. You actually see the score
deepen and start to run toward both edges. Sometimes I then use the breaking
pliers, some other times, if the tapping is really going well, I just keep
at it. The closer the glass gets to separating, the "tinnier" the sound
becomes, almost thin.
Having said all that, I also add that I only use it with very deep curves.
The other ones are easy to handle with running pliers. I read about cutting
several "c" shaped curves and incrementally removing glass to get to the
base of the curve, but with this method, I've not done that. As a matter of
fact, the instructor introduced us to tapping directly as a result of my
asking about the incremental removal method. He said he seldom, if ever does
it that way.
So there... all I know about it. Does it sound reasonable?
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
me to wait.
 Thanks... Mary


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 22:13:07 1999
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X-Path: hotmail.com!katmath
From: "Kathy Mather" <katmath@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: stained glass books
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 21:24:55 PDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.42455.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi folks,
  Can anyone recommend a book on designing for stained glass, and the use of 
colors. I have been doing glass for a while and would like to start 
designing more of my own work and I am just plain bad with colors. Is this 
something you learn with time or are there books that can help? Thanks for 
the help.
                               Kathy


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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 22:44:57 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: bungi fashion
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 23:32:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.18324.0>
References: <<199907092031.UAA11463@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

You'd be doing nothing outside my house nekkid!  Not unless you hose
yourself down with bug repellant first! UGh!

Last two days, Ive been a lovely evergreen scent! Gross!
My husband came out into my workshop to install....YES....

AN AIR CONDITIONER!!!!!!!!!!!! :o) <---- REAL big smile! 

Made me a bit nervous when he started cutting a hole in the wall...
but it worked and now,...maybe I can start working without the bug 
spray.

Tulsa Suzanne

Toby wrote:
> 
> Huh!?
> What was that!?
> Who is this Dani talking about???
> Just as well nobody can see me NOW, hot 'n sweaty in front of the
> computer and the inventory list of what to take to USA
> The Emperor would have taken fright, had a heart attack and died, had
> he seen......
> 
> Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home-Toby in UK
> 
> Dani said
> > Message text written by INTERNET:CncptThnkr@aol.com
> > >fashion sense of the men on bungi.<
> >
> > What about the women??  We have one who
> > solders in the moonlight buck nekked!  And you
> > thought the Emperor had nice clothes..... :-D
> >
> > Hahahaha,
> >
> > Dani
> unquote>
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 23:02:37 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Elisabeth's list as told to me...
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 23:38:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.183826.0>
Precedence: bulk

Since you said you couldnt remember what all you told me...this is what
you told me to bring.


> If you have not done any lead work before (?) you will need to bring 
> your master drawing, a wooden board that is about 2 inches larger on 
> all sides than your design, 2 wooden battens (i.e. strips) which 
> won't split when you put nails into them, spare paper, sellotape, 
> sharpie pens (black, blue and red) a hammer , a wooden clothes peg 
> (don't laugh!) an old tooth brush, an old nail brush and a common 
> carburandum stone (the type one sharpens garden shears 'n tools with) 
> and some ordinary 1/2  inch nails with heads. One last thing, an 
> old defunct dinner knife with rounded end and not too sharp. Other 
> odds and sods I will bring myself.  
> All will be revealed.........

BYOB ;o)
T suz
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Fri Jul  9 23:48:36 1999
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Kathy Mather <katmath@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: stained glass books
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:35:09 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul13.15359.0>
References: <<1999Jul10.42455.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

Kathy Mather wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
>   Can anyone recommend a book on designing for stained glass, and the use of
> colors. I have been doing glass for a while and would like to start
> designing more of my own work and I am just plain bad with colors. Is this
> something you learn with time or are there books that can help? Thanks for
> the help.
>                                Kathy
> 
> 

Kathy...SGN had a series within the past few years on designing stained
glass by Caroline Kyle (i think thats her first name..anyway...shes very
well known)....she got into color wheels and harmony etc etc...I think
it covered about a years worth of issues....

Liz
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 06:44:01 1999
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X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram
From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: colors-Kathy
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 07:41:01 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.1411.0>
Precedence: bulk

Kathy,
My problem with colors is not being able to see new ways to use color.  I
tend to think like a small child with a 8 color pack of crayons.  When I was
making my second panel, someone suggested pink for the sand.  I know I would
have never thought of that, but once I put the pink glass up to the panel I
knew it was the right color.  But I would have never thought to try it on my
own.  Besides a book to explain color, I think I appreciate the input of
others.  I must be improving though, because I did a panel this fall and
used a purple and yellow streaky for the earth and it worked great with the
blue violet streaky sky.  I have also recut parts of my projects, because
what I thought would look good, in fact, did not...and I can't stand it when
the colors seem to battle each other.  Yet, if you would look the colors up
on a chart they are supposed to be complimentary.  I think the properties of
glass change some of the rules of color.  One thing I do, now, is put up my
glass choices in a window in the kitchen, and look at them for a week or so
before I commit to them.  I will add and take down colors after looking at
them for a while.  I have a lot of friends and a large family, so I get many
opinions on my color choices this way.  Whoever wants will go to the shop
and pick out other alternatives for me and put them in the window.  I made a
large pool table lamp this past winter and the accent color was provided by
my husband, who never comments on color (and not someone I would think to
turn to first when it comes to color selection....the man only wears brown,
navy blue, gray, brown and black!!!  Definitely not a bungian!).   So IMHO
use all available resources when choosing color.  But in the end, choose
what pleases yourself.

I beleive that Carolyn Kyle has a book on design...with color choices as a
chapter...I've seen it but don't know the name.  I read her articles in SGN
also.

I am also learning to design...I've done a few things, with a pleasing
success so far...but for me it takes a long time.  I do the same thing with
my pattern as I do with the glass.  I put it up on the wall, and then I
spend time looking at it...it helps me find what is not pleasing like those
rose leaves I wrote about last week...I am continuing to look at the design
until I decide what I want to do to correct them.  I know what options I
have and I will play with them all.

Let us know how your first design works.  I like to read those lessons
learned posts...they always give me food for thought.  cj

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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 06:52:09 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: <hotglass@list.bb.net>,
Subject: Cold Glass New Pics
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 06:24:17 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul9.232417.0>
Precedence: bulk

Good Morning,

Got some new pics in Shari's gallery at the Intrastar site.

main link
http://glass.intrastar.net

her gallery link
http://glass.intrastar.net/shari/indexpage1.htm

Her descriptions:
> 1. Sailing: my favorite panel--one I made a couple of years ago from a
> GlassSmith Studios pattern. Makes me wish I were sailing...
> 2. MomsVictorian is of a Victorian panel I did last summer for a
> VERY DEMANDING client--my mother! It was, at the time, the biggest panel
I'd
> made.
> 3. Birdbathmosaic is one of my favorite ways to use up glass scraps--my
> birdbath for the backyard...
> 4. Glassbird is my most recent pride and joy. I am remodeling my home
> in Caribbean motif (not easy to do while living in land-locked Utah!) and
> this panel fits in beautifully. Some of the list may remember my suicidal
> postings about matching the background baroque and breaking the very last
> piece cut--well, it doesn't show too much... Otherwise, I love this one.




Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://glass.intrastar.net




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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 08:14:29 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: "AA_Instar Glass" <glass@intrastar.net>,
Subject: Re: Hot Glass Beads
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 07:33:10 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.03310.0>
References: <<004101beca7c$13882ec0$1d9556d1@com>>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Lee, Jerri, Joan, Bob, Cherly,

Well it looks like I got four garden bead sticks, make that three, broke one
while trying to get bead off. I think it was Cherly, that said with copper
coated mild steel, if the glass and copper get together, then you have a
perfect bond. They are bonded very well, they have been soaking all day
yesterday in water, and all last night in water and lime away. And all still
stuck solid this morning.

I went to the welder supply and got a tube of stainless steel welding rod
(hard stuff, had to cut with dremel grinder) yesterday, they will only sell
by the pound, $8.68 a pound.

How thick do you put the bead release???

I re-read the jar, it is FPI bead release. I just came backup (from garage)
from cutting all the stainless rods down to about 12 inches each, so have a
bunch of rods now (mandrels), I dipped them each in the bead release, and
they are air drying now.

I have read of two ways to do the start of the bead, one to heat the release
until rid hot, and melt the glass at the same time, and touch them together
to start the winding. And two to hold the rod below the flame (have not
tried this yet) and melt the glass, and let it droop, and wind it onto the
mandrel, as it droops. Which way is better? I am wondering if by putting the
mandrel in the flame, was part of the cause of the beads sticking.

Been going to all the teaching sites that I can find, and reading about how
to make beads,,,


Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://glass.intrastar.net



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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 09:12:51 1999
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From: "Dawn M. Barker" <dmbarker66@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Re: All you hot glasser's check this out
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:28:58 CST
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.152858.0>
Precedence: bulk



Oh my, Shirley.  Those are gorgeous pictures.  *sigh* Talented people.

Question for you all:

Does anyone know where I can get a torch (starter size, nothing elaborate) 
in Canada?  I'd like to start on some beads and hot glass, but have drawn a 
blank at my supplier's place.  Also - can't be too expensive, because I'm on 
a verrrry limited budget. And/or sites with some instruction would be 
good...

Thanks!

Dawn


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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 10:42:29 1999
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Hot Glass Beads
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:02:03 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.923.0>
References: <<004d01becae1$23aac8c0$4989dfd1@imagine>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bud,

You are doing it right.  Dip each mandrel twice, don't have to dry
between  coats, just dip, twirl, dip again.  I use a styrofoam brick to
hold them as I dip, then let dry (air dry) a couple of hours.  Make sure
the FPI is consistency of a thick milk shake.  Use distilled water to
thin, not tap water, too many minerals/other stuff in tap water.  It is
too thick if the mandrel will stay upright when dipped, just right when
it tilts slowly over in the jar. I use larger diameter mandrels and
triple dip for some of the pyrex. 

Don't get the mandrel hot red, just barely cool red when you start to
wind on the glass.  One pound of stainless steel, 1/16 dia rod is fine,
lots of mandrels.  This is where I get mine, then cut them down as you
did.  A small bolt cutter or compound side cutters will cut it. Don't
forget to grind smooth the tips (both ends) of the mandrels.  Some
welding rod has flat spots on the ends, cut those off.  Use stainless
steel only, not coated with flux or copper.  If the mandrel gets kinked
or bent, just toss it. 

A Jewelers 'wax saw blade' makes a good reamer, they come in several
diameters.  If you have a jewelry supply house near, they are in packs
of a dozen, not too expensive.  Or you can use a broken ring saw blade
;-).  There are commercial reamers too. Use a dremel with the flex shaft
attachment to grind/polish any bead ends that are not smooth.

I am experimenting with several kinds of glass/colors/pixie
dust/mica/dichroic to make 'baroque' beads some are 3 inches long/ 3/4
inch diameter.   

Bud Britt wrote:
> 
> Dear Lee, Jerri, Joan, Bob, Cherly,
> 
> Well it looks like I got four garden bead sticks, make that three, broke one
> while trying to get bead off. I think it was Cherly, that said with copper
> coated mild steel, if the glass and copper get together, then you have a
> perfect bond.

If you want to make garden stakes, use this, some nice large garden or
plant stakes can be made with assorted spectrum scraps, melted and wound
together.

I think it was Carol, or maybe Cheryl that said a mixture of water,
calgon bath beads (the foaming kind) and white vinegar makes a good
overnight soak.  Sorry if I credited this to the wrong person.  Mix it
in the sink, it foams over when mixed. It also makes it easier to ream
out any remaining gunk from the bead release.

 They are bonded very well, they have been soaking all day
> yesterday in water, and all last night in water and lime away. And all still
> stuck solid this morning.
> 
> I went to the welder supply and got a tube of stainless steel welding rod
> (hard stuff, had to cut with dremel grinder) yesterday, they will only sell
> by the pound, $8.68 a pound.
> 
> How thick do you put the bead release???
> 
> I re-read the jar, it is FPI bead release. I just came backup (from garage)
> from cutting all the stainless rods down to about 12 inches each, so have a
> bunch of rods now (mandrels), I dipped them each in the bead release, and
> they are air drying now.
> 
> I have read of two ways to do the start of the bead, one to heat the release
> until rid hot, and melt the glass at the same time, and touch them together
> to start the winding. And two to hold the rod below the flame (have not
> tried this yet) and melt the glass, and let it droop, and wind it onto the
> mandrel, as it droops. Which way is better? I am wondering if by putting the
> mandrel in the flame, was part of the cause of the beads sticking.
> 
> Been going to all the teaching sites that I can find, and reading about how
> to make beads,,,
> 
> Sincerely,
> Bud Britt

I also like Super Blue sludge for pyrex work, takes a lot of tugging
before it breaks loose.  I've tried several kinds of bead release, keep
going back to the FPI like it best.  I do mix some of my own for special
applications.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 13:12:25 1999
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wacking glass
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:55:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.115546.0>
References: <<1999Jul9.115641.0>>
Precedence: bulk

To a figure skating fan "chacking" has specific meaning...i.e., a performance
that is not show in the televised version, named after Michael Chack who always
seemed to be left off TV, no matter how well he did.
So a spellchacker....What spellings are you not showing us?


>
> > .....Bob (celabrating over 90 days wihtout a spellchacker)
> >

Dorothy, who, as you know, types so well she never uses one of those newfangled
things.

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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 14:12:40 1999
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Wacking glass
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:41:06 -0400
Message-ID: <199907102042.QAA05797@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

7/10/99 3:55 PM Family Account shad@mail2.nai.net

>
>Dorothy, who, as you know, types so well she never uses one of those 
>newfangled
>things.
>
Yes, that reminds me of the time you went to the crack fair!!!!
:)
Suzanne, typesetter in her former life.
Bob, how about un-celabrating and bringing back the spellchacker.
Or you could hire me for only pennies a day, I would be glad to act as 
your spellchacker for you.


suzanne albright
suzy@comcat.com

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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 14:20:40 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Family Account" <shad@mail2.nai.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Wacking glass
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:48:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.6482.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>To a figure skating fan "chacking" has specific meaning...i.e., a
performance
that is not show in the televised version, named after Michael Chack who
always
seemed to be left off TV, no matter how well he did.
So a spellchacker....What spellings are you not showing us?


>
> > .....Bob (celabrating over 90 days wihtout a spellchacker)
> >

Dorothy, who, as you know, types so well she never uses one of those
newfangled
things.<<

You have caught me. I am very inventive when it comes to spelling but have
learned not to share many of my special spellings. Once, in about the fifth
grade, had a teacher that called me out for spelling the same word three
different ways on the same sheet of paper. I knew the first two were wrong
so went for a third chance. Did not have the heart to tell her. Since I have
been using Outlook Express I have been without a spell checker. If anyone
knows how to incorporate one I would lke it verry mush.

Bob (working on Saturday afternoon to make up for being lazy earlier)

Ps: If anyone has seen that beautiful fused leaf I made for the panel I am
working on please let me know. It must be there because it doesn't seem to
be here.

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm

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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 16:12:23 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Neat site
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:34:03 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.14343.0>
Precedence: bulk

http://kissmyglass.pollack.net/
Hi all.. check out above URL. Very interesting stained glass.
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
me to wait.
 Thanks... Mary


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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 16:21:05 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Wacking glass
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:33:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.83331.0>
References: <<1999Jul10.6482.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Bob,

Outlook Express depends on the Microsoft Office package for it's
Spellchecker. If you have MS Word, or Office installed, then you have a
spell checker, if not, well then you do not,,,


Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://glass.intrastar.net


----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Duchesneau <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>; Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 01:48 PM
Subject: Re: Wacking glass


> >>To a figure skating fan "chacking" has specific meaning...i.e., a
> performance
> that is not show in the televised version, named after Michael Chack who
> always
> seemed to be left off TV, no matter how well he did.
> So a spellchacker....What spellings are you not showing us?
>
>
> >
> > > .....Bob (celabrating over 90 days wihtout a spellchacker)
> > >
>
> Dorothy, who, as you know, types so well she never uses one of those
> newfangled
> things.<<
>
> You have caught me. I am very inventive when it comes to spelling but have
> learned not to share many of my special spellings. Once, in about the
fifth
> grade, had a teacher that called me out for spelling the same word three
> different ways on the same sheet of paper. I knew the first two were wrong
> so went for a third chance. Did not have the heart to tell her. Since I
have
> been using Outlook Express I have been without a spell checker. If anyone
> knows how to incorporate one I would lke it verry mush.
>
> Bob (working on Saturday afternoon to make up for being lazy earlier)
>
> Ps: If anyone has seen that beautiful fused leaf I made for the panel I am
> working on please let me know. It must be there because it doesn't seem to
> be here.
>
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 17:17:46 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Gloyn
From: Gloyn@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Tapping Glass
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:45:23 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.234523.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have more successful breaks tapping the glass before using the pliers or 
runners on difficult curves but also on straight cuts.  I have found that on 
long straight cuts it helps minimize the break running off the score towards 
the end of the peice if I tap it first.  The way I learned it you tap with 
the ball of your cutter on the underside of the glass as close (but not on) 
the score line as possible.  Many times you can see the score line running 
while you are tapping.  It then breaks out nice and easy.  
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 22:14:32 1999
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X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid
From: "jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: "Kathy Mather" <katmath@hotmail.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: stained glass books
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:43:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.204328.0>
Precedence: bulk

There is a color book that I picked up,which has helped me
eminently...Called "Color Harmony" by  Hideaki Chijiiwa.  Published by
Rockport Publishers.

Tons   (1662)  of colors and he mixes up to 4 color combinations...with all
the complementary colors,contrasting hues,similar hues,natural colors,color
progressions and all for the low, low price of 15.95.  (Must be watching too
many infomercials...LOL)

It a great book!  I think I bought at Ed Hoy's in Chicago.  But, I haven't
check Amazon could be there.
Jill
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathy Mather <katmath@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, July 10, 1999 1:29 AM
Subject: stained glass books


>Hi folks,
>  Can anyone recommend a book on designing for stained glass, and the use
of
>colors. I have been doing glass for a while and would like to start
>designing more of my own work and I am just plain bad with colors. Is this
>something you learn with time or are there books that can help? Thanks for
>the help.
>                               Kathy
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Sat Jul 10 23:42:39 1999
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X-Path: cros.net!soraya
From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: stained glass books
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 02:19:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul10.221916.0>
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>There is a color book that I picked up,which has helped me
>eminently...Called "Color Harmony" by  Hideaki Chijiiwa.  Published by
>Rockport Publishers

>It a great book!  I think I bought at Ed Hoy's in Chicago.  But, I haven't
>check Amazon could be there

Amazon.com and Borders.com say that it is out of print.

Soraya

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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 01:42:39 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Gloyn@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tapping Glass
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:26:19 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.102619.0>
References: <<1999Jul10.234523.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Check that you are applying equal pressure from the start to the finish
of your straight cuts.  You should not need to tap straight lines unless
they are very long or on thick glass.
        My information is that you tap directly under the score line
when you do, as that propagates the fracture directly through the glass.
        You can also run the cut with cut running pliers by gently
squeezing first from one end and then the other end of the score.

Steve

In message <1999Jul10.234523.0@?>, Gloyn@aol.com writes
>I have more successful breaks tapping the glass before using the pliers or 
>runners on difficult curves but also on straight cuts.  I have found that on 
>long straight cuts it helps minimize the break running off the score towards 
>the end of the peice if I tap it first.  The way I learned it you tap with 
>the ball of your cutter on the underside of the glass as close (but not on) 
>the score line as possible.  Many times you can see the score line running 
>while you are tapping.  It then breaks out nice and easy.  
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 02:12:44 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Rickola
From: Rickola@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Color Harmony1 and 2
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 04:40:54 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.84054.0>
Precedence: bulk


Looks like this guy can get these titles.   

check out some of his neon at

http://pages.prodigy.com/NEO-SCULPT/102.htm
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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 09:57:24 1999
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X-Path: pacbell.net!meryder
From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Color Harmony w/glass etc
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 08:58:42 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.15842.0>
References: <<1999Jul13.15359.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everyone,

I was just reading the thread of Kathy Mather's searching for books/info on
color harmony, and saw the note that both Border's and Amazon.com indicate
the book is out of print.

As an alternative, you might want to look in your public library for books on
Interior Decorating...many texts have good information on color harmony and
include color samples. I always loved the Laura Ashley Decorating catalogs because

they showed pictures of rooms with pleasing combinations.  Spiegel Catalogs were
another source of color harmony information....the furnishings section.

Or, think about looking for the "Color Me Beautiful" type of color analysis
books...they also have good color harmony information....(and...you might find a
correlation between
the idea of personal color harmony and the colors that clients gravitate towards
or reject off-hand in their glass selection.)  The Color Analysis fad is passe,
but many
of the texts are still in print.  Carole Jackson is the author of "Color Me
Beautiful.".
Doris Pooser still writes (and is currently affiliated with QVC as their online
fashion consultant at the iQVC website.)

And, last but not least, a handy tool to keep around for color harmony matching is

a "PMS" fan....(that's.Print Matching System..not the "other" thing)  It looks
like
a bunch of paint samples that you get from the local home center that have been
gathered up with a grommet in one end so they can be fanned out.  The PMS fan
contains all the colors in two surfaces...shiny and matte.

Oh, one more place to look...at your local art supply store...they usually carry
many "How To" books, and I found one there years ago on Color....it's been very
useful over the years.

Happy Hunting..

Best regards,
Cheryl Ryder


From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 10:11:47 1999
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X-Path: pacbell.net!meryder
From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: retailers/and a ramble!
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:05:12 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.2512.0>
References: <<1999Jul7.3531.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Howard,

I've been reading your story and ROFL.  Thank you.  You are a pure gem.
(ROFL...rolling on floor laughing).

Many thanks and best regards,
Cheryl Ryder


Howard wrote:

> I, over the past years have taught, sold supplies, produced shades, sold
> shades both in volume and for individuals and in general made my skills
> available without remuneration and thought to time given to most people. For
> my students, I would get most anything they needed, and tried to dissuade
> them from "fad" buying.
> I would try most products before touting them as the "best" item since
> sliced bread.
> A few "hot-shots" would come by to pick my brain (slim pickings at times)
> and condescend to buy a little something, usually after telling me they
> could not find it elswhere...what an approach. Another gem is to tell me
> they could buy it cheaper from a mail-order "pseudo wholesaler" (you know
> who you are) and ask me to MATCH the price. In most cases they also failed
> to point out the shipping charge.....I never added that in to the SMRP I
> charged.
> One super pain, used to wheel and deal (I have a lot of years as a
> "door-to-door salesman) and chisel as much as possible from me. Last time we
> crossed paths was on a purchase of a grinder I had in stock......he showed
> me all the "catalog" prices....I did add freight into the price we settled
> on, and took a check. He went to remove the grinder from my shop......NO NO
> NO! I asked him to come back in about 8 days to pick it up. Why should I
> have to match all the other criteria and still let him have it NOW......I
> asked him if he wanted OVERNIGHT delivery (extra of course). Lost a customer
> who took up more time than he was worth.
> My shade making time is worth a LOT MORE than I can make teaching, awaiting
> a retail customer, I need not stock very many items, and I have FULL control
> over my time.
> I taught for the enjoyment of it. To see a first-timer who has been warned
> all of their life to "stay away from glass" make a score and break a piece
> of glass where they wanted it to happen is indeed neat!
> Because I had been teaching primarily shades, early on I usually pointed out
> that this in an expensive hobby, and if you have have to count your pennies,
> perhaps you should be weaving beach grass instead (around here it cheap and
> plentiful).
> I still keep an extensive of odd-ball lamp accessories, YES you can get vase
> caps in .125 increments......some many adapters that I can bush from 8/32 to
> at least one inch.
> Some of my students still stop by to "visit" and or buy that ONE sheet of
> glass they cannot live without.
> Enough for now.....I have to start soldering the inside of a SOLD 22"
> nasturtium.
> enjoy, H
>
> weaver51@teleport.com
> Elaine and Howard
> best lamps on the "net":
> http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
>
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 10:24:17 1999
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X-Path: pacbell.net!meryder
From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Mosaics...Tiffany
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:36:48 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.23648.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

I 've seen some folks inquiring about the making of glass
mosaics/stepping stones,
and thought I'd share some information I came upon today.

In the July'99 "Smithsonian" magazine there is a lengthy article about
Maxfield
Parrish (1870-1966) who's beautiful scenic paintings were "the rage" for
many decades.
Like Tiffany, who's art fell out of favor during the "Picasso Years",
Parrish's work
is being rediscovered, reprinted, displayed, and sought after at
extraordinary prices.

Well...and here is the Mosaic/Tiffany connection.  The Smithsonian
Article references a work painted by Parrish, and then executed in Glass
Mosaid by Tiffany Studios.  It's a huge mural on the wall of the Curtis
Center in Philadelphia...100,000 pieces of Favrile
Glass executed in 260 colors, 15 feet hight and 50 feet wide.  Parrish
painted the
picture, entitled "Dreamscape"  in 1914 and Tiffany finished the mosaic
wall in 1915.  Wanting to know more about the history of this piece, I
picked up my copy of "The Lost Treasures of Louis Comfort Tiffany" and
voila! found an entire chapter dedicated to 'Tiffany Mosaics."  This
book gives a larger history, not only of the "Dreamscape" Mural at the
Curtis Center, but also of the Glass Fire Curtain at the Mexican
National
Theatre in Mexico City.

What an inspiration !!  I think I may dust off my mosaic cutters...and
give
this part of our art another try..

Best regards,
Cheryl

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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 10:34:49 1999
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From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Tapping Glass
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 08:31:12 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.13112.0>
References: <<1999Jul11.102619.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,
Wasn't it the witch in the Hansel & Gretl story that said "Tap, tap, tapping like
a little mouse. Who's that tapping at my house?"

Tapping glass works for me when:
1)  The cut is going to be long and/or thin
2)  The glass is difficult to work with: (hard, rippled, thick, or
many-layered...as in Chicago Art, Uroboros, and Youghiongheny).
3)  The cut is curved .  I like to propagate the fracture before using my pliers
to
separate the sections.

Sometimes, as with Bullseye glass (which a I use a lot for
roses in my lampshades), the glass is so soft that just a light tap with the ball
of
my cutter breaks the glass and separates the pieces simultaneously.  This
action, I've been told by the instructor at the Glass Shoppe, is not a "tap"
but a "whap."  Got to get the terminology right---hmm..maybe a new subject
for a conversation thread....a dictionary of favorite glass-related terms..
(no expletives please).

For everything else I hand-break, and frankly, I use my running pliers a lot...I
get
less finger-tip glass cuts that way...

Best regards,
Cheryl Ryder.



Steve Richard wrote:

> Check that you are applying equal pressure from the start to the finish
> of your straight cuts.  You should not need to tap straight lines unless
> they are very long or on thick glass.
>         My information is that you tap directly under the score line
> when you do, as that propagates the fracture directly through the glass.
>         You can also run the cut with cut running pliers by gently
> squeezing first from one end and then the other end of the score.
>
> Steve
>
> In message <1999Jul10.234523.0@?>, Gloyn@aol.com writes
> >I have more successful breaks tapping the glass before using the pliers or
> >runners on difficult curves but also on straight cuts.  I have found that on
> >long straight cuts it helps minimize the break running off the score towards
> >the end of the peice if I tap it first.  The way I learned it you tap with
> >the ball of your cutter on the underside of the glass as close (but not on)
> >the score line as possible.  Many times you can see the score line running
> >while you are tapping.  It then breaks out nice and easy.
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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>
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 10:34:57 1999
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From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: stained glass books
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 99 22:00:54 
Message-ID: <199907111607.KAA11153@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

>There is a color book that I picked up,which has helped me
>eminently...Called "Color Harmony" by  Hideaki Chijiiwa.  Published by
>Rockport Publishers

>It a great book!  I think I bought at Ed Hoy's in Chicago.  But, I haven't
>check Amazon could be there

Amazon.com and Borders.com say that it is out of print.

Soraya
**************

goto: bibliofind.com

found several at different booksellers..

Hideaki Chijiiwa: Color Harmony ; North Light Books 1987 PB
             (heavy weight glossy covers) As new condition, a guide to creative color
             combinations. An excellent reference book, crafts, needlework (2) 7540  
             Offered for sale by Mountain Laurel Books at US$15.00



                Chijiiwa, Hideaki: Color Harmony ; Rockport, 1987, Trade PB VG,
             Art color combinations   (UR#:45255)  Offered for sale by Phoenix Books at
             US$4.95



                Chijiiwa : Color Harmony.. ; Color Harmony..Chijiiwa. Rockport
             Pub, '87, 143 pages, paper, a guide to creative color combinations, step by
             step guide to choosing and combining colors for artists, fashions designers
             and anyone else working with color. Dozens of full color photos, intro to
             color theory palette of 61 basic colors, 1662 combinations, 12 helpful
             guidelines for choosing your own color schemes Book II , north light books ,
             COLOR   (UR#:4847 )  Offered for sale by Hard-to-Find Needlework Books
             at US$15.95



                Chijiiwa, Hideaki: Color Harmony Guide To Creative Color
             Combinations ; 1989, VG, OVERSIZED PAPERBACK,2215   Offered
             for sale by East Ridge Used Book Store at US$15.00



                Chijiiwa, Hideaki: Color Harmony; A guide to Creative Color
             Combinations ; Rockport trade PB, 1987, 150 pages, VG+, General # 6
             COLOR COMBINATIONS GENERAL # 6   (UR#:2702)  Offered for sale
             by Adventures in Bookselling at US$4.50

You can order right there, and can pay instantly with a credit card or later with a check.. 
have dealt with this site for about 5 yrs.

Candy

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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 10:47:13 1999
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From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Question..marketing
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:10:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.21031.0>
References: <<1999Jul7.55813.0>>
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...mmm..Delphi Stained Glass is in Lansing Michigan...and don't they
hold
a SG photo contest every year?  You send in pictures of you with your
work
and they put the winners in their next annual catalog...and sometimes
into their
bi-monthly sales flyers.?

Regards,
Cheryl

wright wrote:

> In Michigan April is stained glass month. I
> don,t know if that is all over.
>
> Maggie
> the_wright_light@go.com
>
> ________________________________________________________ ____
> Get your Free GO Network Email address at http://mail.go.com
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 11:29:36 1999
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From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Mosaics...Tiffany
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 14:01:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.10111.0>
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>In the July'99 "Smithsonian" magazine there is a lengthy article about
>Maxfield Parrish (1870-1966) who's beautiful scenic paintings were
>"the rage" for many decades

I love Maxfield Parrish!!  I was so happy to see that issue come in the
mail..now maybe so many others won't have to ask who he is!!

I have had fun experimenting with tryin to come up with patterns based on
his works....(so far I haave had a good start with his work "Stars")...maybe
one day I will actually make it is glass!!

Thanks for the info on the Tiffinay mosiac of Parrish's work...

Soraya

PS:  For a few online pieces of his work..and some unneeded commentary (by
me!)... http://www.cros.net/soraya/parrish.htm



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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 14:00:43 1999
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From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Color books
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 14:00:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.10033.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all...
There are a terrific group of color books in every book store's art
department. I forget the name, it's obscure anyway, but the book is
smallish, about 5" x 4" or so, and is white with bands of color on the
front. There are many versions.
In each book, they not only group colors in harmony, but also have sections
devoted to different eras and the colors that correspond. It also has
cultural colorways, etc.
This book helped me tremendously in my furniture painting and pottery days.
No matter how you want to mix and match colors, they have the tones and hues
that are pleasing to the eye.
Also, a color wheel is simply the best basic tool. Your hairstylist will
most likely be the best person to explain how it is used. We use it on a
daily basis, and it's invaluable. With it, you not only understand
gradations of color, but also perfect contrasts. No matter which color book
you choose, be sure to get a wheel and study it. It will sharpen your eye to
underlying tones, warmth, coolness, depth of color, etc.

I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
me to wait.
 Thanks... Mary


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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 14:33:28 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Mosaics...Tiffany
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:56:49 -0400
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Message text written by "Soraya"
>
I love Maxfield Parrish!!  I was so happy to see that issue come in the
mail..now maybe so many others won't have to ask who he is!!<

There is a marvelous book about Sue Lewin that was published a =

few years ago - Sue was his model and probably long-time lover
and she posed for the majority of his characters, even
the paintings that had hundreds of characters!  After reading the
Lewin bio and seeing the scores of photos that were clearly used
for his most famous paintings, it was really an odd feeling looking
at the paintings themselves!  Wow, you could really see Sue Lewin
and I mean everywhere even under the beards!  Bizarre.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 17:35:53 1999
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From: "Kathy Mather" <katmath@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Thanks
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:54:56 PDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.235456.0>
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Hi folks,
  Thanks so much for all the good ideas on finding info on design and color. 
As usual you folks have been a very big help.
                                                     Kathy


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 17:49:01 1999
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From: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@iconn.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: E-TOUR/ Address
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:07:06 -0400
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Hi Folks,
Can someone please tell what  is the address for Elizabeth Tour Page. I
was editting my book marks, and deleted it by accident.
Hope everyone has had a wonderful day.
Thank you in Advance,
Tim Byrnes

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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 18:41:41 1999
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From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@iconn.net>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: E-TOUR/ Address
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:56:35 PDT
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[In the message entitled "E-TOUR/ Address" on Jul 11, 20:07, Tim Byrnes writes:]

> Can someone please tell what  is the address for Elizabeth Tour Page. I
> was editting my book marks, and deleted it by accident.

It's at:

http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/calendar/august.html



-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 18:57:25 1999
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From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
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Subject: Etour
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:58:14 PDT
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Better still see:

http://members.xoom.com/GlassArt1/etour3.html


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 19:37:34 1999
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From: "Lou Deskins" <deskins@netphase.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: stained glass books
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:58:02 -0400
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----------
>From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
>To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
>Subject: Re: stained glass books
>Date: Sat, Jul 10, 1999, 6:00 PM
>

>>There is a color book that I picked up,which has helped me
>>eminently...Called "Color Harmony" by  Hideaki Chijiiwa.  Published by
>>Rockport Publishers
>
>>It a great book!  I think I bought at Ed Hoy's in Chicago.  But, I haven't
>>check Amazon could be there
>
>Amazon.com and Borders.com say that it is out of print.
>
It is not out of print.  It is at
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0935603069/stainedglasspatt and is
sold $12.95 and ships within 24 hours.

Lou
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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 21:12:54 1999
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From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Mosaics...Tiffany
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:37:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.193719.0>
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Message text written by "Soraya"
>
>>I love Maxfield Parrish!!  I was so happy to see that issue come in the
>>mail..now maybe so many others won't have to ask who he is!!<

>>There is a marvelous book about Sue Lewin that was published a
>>few years ago -

I have it, it is "The Make Believe World of Maxfield Parish and Susan Lewin"
by  Alma Gilbert. (currently available from Ten Speed Press)

The Ms. Gilbert has actually visited my page and made a nice comment.

I know what you mean about seeing Sue Lewin in 'every' person Parish painted
just about....it is kinda funny once you get used to it!!

Take Care,
Soraya



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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 21:40:08 1999
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From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: stained glass books
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:38:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.193822.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>It is not out of print.  It is at....

You must have the magic touch....


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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 21:57:36 1999
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From: "jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: <meryder@pacbell.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Question..marketing
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:04:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.20410.0>
Precedence: bulk

    Delphi usually holds a contest and shows all the beautiful work from
anyone who enters the contest.  I don't believe they accept photos though.
The winners usually stay in the shop for months for everyone to see.  And
believe me! It's turns the shop in to the most beautiful gallery in the
world!!!
     There is some amazing artisans in Michigan.  Many of the galleries
around Oakland County, which is in Michigan, celebrate Glass Art.  I visited
couple of the galleries, that are located in Pontiac, which celebrates Glass
in April.  Beautiful shows.  There was more Hot Glass, than anything else
but was Great and let's me dream.
Jill
-----Original Message-----
From: meryder@pacbell.net <meryder@pacbell.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Sunday, July 11, 1999 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Question..marketing


>...mmm..Delphi Stained Glass is in Lansing Michigan...and don't they
>hold
>a SG photo contest every year?  You send in pictures of you with your
>work
>and they put the winners in their next annual catalog...and sometimes
>into their
>bi-monthly sales flyers.?
>
>Regards,
>Cheryl
>
>wright wrote:
>
>> In Michigan April is stained glass month. I
>> don,t know if that is all over.
>>
>> Maggie
>> the_wright_light@go.com
>>
>> ________________________________________________________ ____
>> Get your Free GO Network Email address at http://mail.go.com
>>
>> ----
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>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>
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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 22:19:47 1999
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From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mosaics...Tiffany
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:07:56 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.14756.0>
References: <<1999Jul11.10111.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Oh I hope you do manage to do your Parrish Pattern.  Getting the light as he
painted
it is the hard thing.    Have you tried glass plating?   I've not tried it yet
myself, however
I've got the 'hankerin..".  Of course, first I have to finish the 22" Elaborate
Peony Lampshade (hubby started foiling it's 1000+ pieces today), the 1' x 2'
Iris window
for a good friend's birthday, and the probable 18" Peony w/matching Bradley Base

for a widower parent's impending nuptials sometime early next year.

Then, maybe, I can use the glass plating technique on a landscape window
I've been dreaming of...an adobe walled garden scene in the Alburquerque/Santa
Fe area.  I saw a painting recently that "put the bee in my bonnet."

Best regards,
Cheryl Ryder

Soraya wrote:

> >In the July'99 "Smithsonian" magazine there is a lengthy article about
> >Maxfield Parrish (1870-1966) who's beautiful scenic paintings were
> >"the rage" for many decades
>
> I love Maxfield Parrish!!  I was so happy to see that issue come in the
> mail..now maybe so many others won't have to ask who he is!!
>
> I have had fun experimenting with tryin to come up with patterns based on
> his works....(so far I haave had a good start with his work "Stars")...maybe
> one day I will actually make it is glass!!
>
> Thanks for the info on the Tiffinay mosiac of Parrish's work...
>
> Soraya
>
> PS:  For a few online pieces of his work..and some unneeded commentary (by
> me!)... http://www.cros.net/soraya/parrish.htm
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 22:54:06 1999
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Mosaics...Tiffany
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:09:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.1593.0>
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Lucky enough to have an original parrish print.....Not a calendar page.

weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 23:03:55 1999
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X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid
From: "jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: <meryder@pacbell.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Question..marketing
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:12:23 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul11.211223.0>
Precedence: bulk


I meant to add that on July 21- 24 1999, there is the Grandmother of all Art
Fair in Ann Arbor Michigan.  Yes, there is quite a few stained glass
displays.  More and more each year as a matter of fact.  This is a juried
show with Fine Art and Arts and Crafts.  As a matter of fact, it a very
tough show to get into.  (Several friends have tried)  During those 4 days,
they figure an average of 100 to 150,000 people a day go thru the beautiful
city of Ann Arbor and the campus of University of Michigan.

There are artisans from all over the U.S. and many from Canada( cuz its so
close.)  I have gone for the last 15 years and I am always in awe and
dumbfounded by the amazing imagination and skills of the people there.

What is really great is the town, is really into the fair too.  Between
street musicians and scheduled bands, food vendors and sidewalks sales it a
relaxing atmosphere, whether rain or shine.

Of course, you have to watch out for the children strollers later in the day
when it's crowded...can be murder on the back of the shins...LOL

Jill

So if you can go.  It always fires my imagination.

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From owner-glass Sun Jul 11 23:14:29 1999
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From: "Glass Expressions" <glassx@bardstown.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: help on pattern
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:54:18 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.85418.0>
Precedence: bulk

 hello to all bungi and thanks for past help!  i'm hoping that you may head
me in the right direction on finding a pattern for the comedy
/tradjety(spelling)  seen mostly with theater   the happy and sad face  a
person wanted one on a stepping stone - i could not find the true symbol .
any help would be appreciated - thanks in advance  ricky

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 00:51:31 1999
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From: William and Melissa Hall <wmh@scci.net>
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Subject: unsubscribe
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 03:04:02 -0400
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References: <<1999Jul7.14372.0>>
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 04:21:44 1999
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From: "Charles R. Clark" <dwood@sky.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Two questions
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:35:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.03540.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
I've noticed *etching* decals and creams in various mail-order SG
suppliers. How well do these work?
I've started the process of making a Turtle Back lamp shade. Have a
bronze mushroom base, the Odyssey form and background glass. I started
to order the Turtle backs when I noticed a caution. It would appear that
these are best cut with a saw. I don't have one, and am wondering if
hand cutting is possible? I realize that skill is an issue but that is
always the case with any glass. Suggestions??
Thx,
C.
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 06:22:54 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Intrastar" <glass@intrastar.net>
Subject: Pricing question
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:45:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.44530.0>
Precedence: bulk

I was checking out Ebay, and noticed that most stained glass panels were
selling very cheaply. For instance, a 2' x3' panel would be in the $40-60.00
range. Doesn't that seem very inexpensive??
Also, I would love to know a "nutshell" price for starting beadwork. I know
I'll hate myself for even developing an interest in it, but the bug has
bitten me too!

I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please tell
me to wait.
 Thanks... Mary


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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 06:46:23 1999
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X-Path: ceps.nasm.edu!jellison
From: PJ Jellison <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
To: Stained Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Any recommendations on new cutter?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:30:43 -0400
Message-ID: <3789EDFC.3F145DE6@ceps.nasm.edu>
Organization: Smithsonian Institution
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

Anybody have a recommendation on cutters?  I've been using one
of the "old-fashioned disposable" metal ones (my retailer's
description), 
and I like it, but he is suggesting I might have an easier time with one 
that delivers oil as you cut, either the pistol-grip or straight 
kind; he likes both.  Is there a difference in ease of handling between 
the two?  My wrist is kind of weak (the result of an encounter with 
a wildcat many  years ago).  Do you folks tend to use one type, or do
you have a "library" of cutters that you use for different types of glass?

Cheers,
PJ Jellison
(jellison@ceps.nasm.edu)
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 07:27:44 1999
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'Bob Duchesneau' <bobdu@prodigy.net>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: Wacking glass
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:24:21 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.52421.0>
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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01BECC69.DA483430
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Bob

Greetings from another inventive speller. 

I had the dubious distinction of being the only student in Honors English to
be in danger of failing due to spelling.
One paper was returned with the comment: "Imaginative subject. Very
imaginative spelling".
Another teacher commented that my spelling, while wrong, seemed so correct
she had to check her dictionary.
Ended up in programming since I couldn't spell. Computers go for consistency
not correctness.

FYI what you did with "chacking" is a malapropism. Named after a character
who always used valid words incorrectly in a non-Freudian manner.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com <mailto:Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com> 

PS In deference to Dorothy and Suzanne the typesetter. 

		You have caught me. I am very inventive when it comes to
spelling but have
		learned not to share many of my special spellings. Once, in
about the fifth
		grade, had a teacher that called me out for spelling the
same word three
		different ways on the same sheet of paper. I knew the first
two were wrong
		so went for a third chance. Did not have the heart to tell
her. Since I have
		been using Outlook Express I have been without a spell
checker. If anyone
		knows how to incorporate one I would lke it verry mush.

		

------_=_NextPart_001_01BECC69.DA483430
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: Wacking glass</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Bob</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Greetings from another inventive =
speller. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I had the dubious distinction of being =
the only student in Honors English to be in danger of failing due to =
spelling.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">One paper was returned with the =
comment: &quot;Imaginative subject. Very imaginative =
spelling&quot;.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Another teacher commented that my =
spelling, while wrong, seemed so correct she had to check her =
dictionary.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Ended up in programming since I =
couldn't spell. Computers go for consistency not correctness.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">FYI what you did with</FONT> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">"chacking"</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> =
is a malapropism. Named after a character who always used valid words =
incorrectly in a non-Freudian manner.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
<BR><A HREF=3D"mailto:Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com"><U><FONT =
COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</FONT></U></A>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">PS In deference to</FONT> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Dorothy</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> =
and</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Suzanne</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> the</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">typesetter</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">. </FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">You have caught =
me. I am very inventive when it comes to spelling but have</FONT></A>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">learned not to share many of my =
special spellings. Once, in about the fifth</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">grade, had a teacher that called me =
out for spelling the same word three</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">different ways on the same sheet of =
paper. I knew the first two were wrong</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">so went for a third chance. Did not =
have the heart to tell her. Since I have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">been using Outlook Express I have =
been without a spell checker. If anyone</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">knows how to incorporate one I would =
lke it verry mush.</FONT>
</P>

<P>
</P>
</UL></UL>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 07:46:58 1999
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:49:58 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: People Eating Tasty Animals
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:32:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.53224.0>
Precedence: bulk

There is an actual People Eating Tasty Animals site. 
Try http://www.mtd.com/tasty <http://www.mtd.com/tasty> 

Found the site a couple of years ago and thought you knew about it.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com
		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Elizabeth Arakelian [mailto:glshorse@ior.com]
		Sent:	Tuesday, July 13, 1999 7:02 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com; Modiano, Victor
		Subject:	Re: People Eating Tasty Animals

		oops...thats actually a joke...PETA officially stands for
"People for
		the ethical treatment of animals"... 

		Sorry if I confused you and led you on a fruitless web
search.... 


		Liz
		----
		
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 07:54:17 1999
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'Toby' <toby@northlights.co.uk>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: bungi fashion
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:39:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.53915.0>
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------_=_NextPart_001_01BECC6B.EF57D892
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Elisabeth

Emperors have always been known for poor health, weak constitutions and
being not too bright.
I'm sure that if the common people had seen you they would be applauding and
throwing money and flowers.

Vic M. who can't make the E-tour but wants a chance to pick your brain.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com 

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk]
		Sent:	Friday, July 09, 1999 5:25 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: bungi fashion

		Huh!?
		What was that!?
		Who is this Dani talking about???
		Just as well nobody can see me NOW, hot 'n sweaty in front
of the 
		computer and the inventory list of what to take to USA
		The Emperor would have taken fright, had a heart attack and
died, had 
		he seen......

		Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home-Toby in UK

		

------_=_NextPart_001_01BECC6B.EF57D892
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: bungi fashion</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Elisabeth</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Emperors have always been known for =
poor health, weak constitutions and being not too bright.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I'm sure that if the common people =
had seen you they would be applauding and throwing money and =
flowers.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M. who can't make the E-tour but =
wants a chance to pick your brain.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com </FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Toby [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk">mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk</A>=
]</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Friday, July 09, 1999 5:25 PM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Re: bungi fashion</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Huh!?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">What was that!?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Who is this Dani talking =
about???</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Just as well nobody can see me NOW, =
hot 'n sweaty in front of the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">computer and the inventory list of =
what to take to USA</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The Emperor would have taken fright, =
had a heart attack and died, had </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">he seen......</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home-Toby in =
UK</FONT>
</P>

<P>
</P>
</UL></UL>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 08:12:36 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Wacking glass
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:26:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.02631.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>FYI what you did with "chacking" is a malapropism. Named after a character
who always used valid words incorrectly in a non-Freudian manner.<<

Yeh, that sounds like me.
Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
*Capt'n, the spell checker canna take this abuse.*

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	for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:15:27 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk!studio.stainedglass
From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio.stainedglass@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Any recommendations on new cutter?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:16:09 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.17169.0>
Precedence: bulk

At 09:30 12/07/99 -0400, PJ Jellison wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>Anybody have a recommendation on cutters?  I've been using one
>of the "old-fashioned disposable" metal ones (my retailer's
>description), 
>and I like it, but he is suggesting I might have an easier time with one 
>that delivers oil as you cut, either the pistol-grip or straight 
>kind; he likes both.  Is there a difference in ease of handling between 
>the two?  My wrist is kind of weak (the result of an encounter with 
>a wildcat many  years ago).  Do you folks tend to use one type, or do
>you have a "library" of cutters that you use for different types of glass?
>
Hello PJJ
Once you are cutting a lot of opalescent glass you may well find one of the
micro-wheeled cutters better than the oldfashioned type.  They are cut to a
different angle and are more manouverable (sp?).  We would usually recommend
someone with weak wrists try the pistolgrip cutter in favour of the straight
oilfed shape.  Most people find it easier to use and less strain on the muscles.
EliZabeth in Bournemouth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 10:01:28 1999
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:06:32 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Wacking glass
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:04:33 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.2433.0>
References: <<1999Jul12.02631.0>>
Precedence: bulk

So, I take it that the AutoSpell (spelling checker) is what you needed to
fix your spelling malaise (sickness, I think),,,

Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://glass.intrastar.net


----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Duchesneau <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>; Modiano, Victor <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 07:26 AM
Subject: Re: Wacking glass


> >>FYI what you did with "chacking" is a malapropism. Named after a
character
> who always used valid words incorrectly in a non-Freudian manner.<<
>
> Yeh, that sounds like me.
> Bob
>
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> *Capt'n, the spell checker canna take this abuse.*
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 10:23:07 1999
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:18:20 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: "PJ Jellison" <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
Subject: Re: Any recommendations on new cutter?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:17:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.2172.0>
References: <<3789EDFC.3F145DE6@ceps.nasm.edu>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello PJ,

I found a little ditty at the glass store that is wonderful for my wrist, it
is a short self-oiling barrel, (forgot the name, Jacobson or something
cutter, it is a Toyo cutter, I think)with a saddle that fits in the area
between your index finger and thumb, the pressure that you used to apply
with your index finger and thumb is now coming from the hand (upper palm)
itself, infact from the fleshy part. So is much easier on the wrist, and
hand. Great for patterns, can take them curves with ease. Took a little to
get used to, only now I rarely use the normal barrel type.

For another friend on the lists,,,

Oh, forgot, ;-), it's one of them newfangled tools, ain't been out for very
long, so might not be approved. ;-)

Glad to see you posting, my glass friend, ;-), and it do not take two to
agree to be friends, only one, who is willing to be friends ;-),,,

Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://glass.intrastar.net


----- Original Message -----
From: PJ Jellison <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
To: Stained Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 06:30 AM
Subject: Any recommendations on new cutter?


> Hi All,
>
> Anybody have a recommendation on cutters?  I've been using one
> of the "old-fashioned disposable" metal ones (my retailer's
> description),
> and I like it, but he is suggesting I might have an easier time with one
> that delivers oil as you cut, either the pistol-grip or straight
> kind; he likes both.  Is there a difference in ease of handling between
> the two?  My wrist is kind of weak (the result of an encounter with
> a wildcat many  years ago).  Do you folks tend to use one type, or do
> you have a "library" of cutters that you use for different types of glass?
>
> Cheers,
> PJ Jellison
> (jellison@ceps.nasm.edu)
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 10:32:53 1999
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:30:39 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: "AA_Instar Glass" <glass@intrastar.net>,
Subject: Non Glass Fw: The Senility Prayer
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:28:47 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.22847.0>
Precedence: bulk

a little something I got in email,,, :-)


The Senility Prayer

God, grant me the senility to forget the people I wish I had never met,
The ability to remember the people I am glad I know,
And the eyesight to tell the difference




Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://glass.intrastar.net


From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 11:00:51 1999
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:43:18 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: fatarch1@yahoo.com.,
From: fatarch1@yahoo.com.
To: fatarch1@yahoo.com.
Subject: One & Only
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:45:44 +0800
Message-ID: <199907121645.AAA21605@weblock.>
Precedence: bulk

THE AFFILIATE WARS HAVE BEGUN!

The One & Only Network announced that throughout the 
month of June they would pay their associates $4 for 
each person that signs up for a FREE customized 
and/or Personals website.  You can now offer your users 
the ability to setup their custom
Personals website for FREE and then you'll get paid $4 
http://www.oneandonlynetwork.com/welcome.htm?MID=45028

----
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 11:57:16 1999
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:12:00 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: nettally.com!gypsy2
From: "Sandy Gustafson" <gypsy2@nettally.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>,
Subject: Poodle Pattern
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:02:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.10216.0>
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Hi!

I am looking for a pattern of a poodle.  Can anyone help me, please?

Thank you,

Sandy in FL.

Remember:
Be kind to everyone, because everyone is having a hard time.


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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 16:56:56 1999
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:26:55 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: rea-alp.com!cricket
From: "Monica" <cricket@rea-alp.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/related;
Subject: hazy patina
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:37:08 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BECC95.8C1F2F80
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Thanks to all who gave me advise on this subject. I thought I'd let you know
how I resolved it. I tried one of the finishing creams sold in the SG
catalogs. The name of it escapes me right now but it worked great! I'd
highly recomend it.
Monica

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rqLLu8FbvWUhEF+ABQNxBRi3sZtCBCX/ULeQ4gIoSgENsAH0IAEDkKkC8A3RcA3R4LklgSrWW79k
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frBKJZB5IyED2aAN3pBHpfzLVyQQZzDGnAQGYIB6VAB7BUEF3isQfrADSSwAErABa0QBG9AA2NwA
+QAB/VAABFB5wBzOwSwQc3AGqPwuZJAGXmAGdtwF2msQVLDHDlh74lzP93sQZMAG+swGU2DHZyQG
COEEzXYQAnAEPGzPCN0SxYcF0jcnQLAECR3RXfF8X3DMtHIENiDRGq0T2We8YOCxA0EEWfAEdLDR
Jn0ToOoPU4AFXCAGYPAFX9BFXyAFYAd00jY9EwEBADs=

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 18:13:45 1999
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Please change my email address for the mailing list from =
larsonrw@pdq.net to wendy_larson@hotmail.com. My husband uses this =
computer and email for work and he can't find his work messages for all =
my bungi mail so this way all the glass stuff I need will be seperate. =
Thanks a million ! =20

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seperate.=20
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 20:04:12 1999
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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: SG in Malaysia 
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:13:44 +0800
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Elizabeth (in Bournmouth)

Did you get my post about the SG in Malaysia? Would like your comments

Couldn't mail direct to you. Keeps bouncing.

Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313

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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 20:21:37 1999
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Subject: Fwd: stained glass books
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:08:32 EDT
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In a message dated 7/11/99 11:11:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
deskins@netphase.net writes:

<< To: "glass@bungi.com >>


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From: "Lou Deskins" <deskins@netphase.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:58:02 -0400
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----------
>From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
>To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
>Subject: Re: stained glass books
>Date: Sat, Jul 10, 1999, 6:00 PM
>

>>There is a color book that I picked up,which has helped me
>>eminently...Called "Color Harmony" by  Hideaki Chijiiwa.  Published by
>>Rockport Publishers
>
>>It a great book!  I think I bought at Ed Hoy's in Chicago.  But, I haven't
>>check Amazon could be there
>
>Amazon.com and Borders.com say that it is out of print.
>
It is not out of print.  It is at
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0935603069/stainedglasspatt and is
sold $12.95 and ships within 24 hours.

Lou
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 21:43:32 1999
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From: Laurent COSTAGANNA<ssgi@magic.fr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Ton mémoire fin d'année
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:41:24 +0200 (CEST)
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Bonjour Bill. =20
=20
Comme convenu lors de notre dernier entretien ci-joint l'adresse=20
de notre s=EEte internet ou tu pourra trouver la table complete des=20
codes NAF.  sur la page http://www.themadress.com/naf.htm=20
=20
Si tu veux me contacter au bureau va voir la page=20
http://www.themadress.com/contacts.htm pour y trouver nos=20
coordonn=E9es postale et telephonique.=20

Bonne R=E9ception de ce message et a tr=E8s bientot.
=20
Laurent COSTAGANNA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
Consultez notre s=EEte internet =E0 l'adresse :=20
http://www.themadress.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
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From owner-glass Mon Jul 12 22:16:57 1999
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X-Path: pacbell.net!meryder
From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mosaics...Tiffany
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:10:13 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.141013.0>
References: <<1999Jul11.1593.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Howard.....

You are a lucky dog to have a print.  A friend of mine was lucky also, and
found one for a reasonable price at a small antique store a few years ago.
Before the "rediscovery"
rage hit the market and all the prices skyrocketed...

Best regards,
Cheryl



Howard wrote:

> Lucky enough to have an original parrish print.....Not a calendar page.
>
> weaver51@teleport.com
> Elaine and Howard
> best lamps on the "net":
> http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 05:48:16 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Two questions
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 07:46:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul13.34614.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all..
I have two quick questions:
1. If you do a design for resale, can you use a pattern or do you have to
contact the artist for permission?
2. On a circular pattern (the IHS with a cross in the middle), rather than
frame it in wood or zinc, I did this. I soldered ball chain about every 2"
around the entire edge. On the back at two solder lines, I applied a hanger
sort of in the shape of a "P", with the stem of the P on the line, and the
loop for attaching a chain. Should this be okay?? The diamiter of the piede
is probably about 18-20".
Thanks all!
Mary...


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 07:19:43 1999
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: glass/what is chicago?
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:11:56 -0400
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References: <<01BECC53.BB671740.deb@glass.com>>
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>Howard, 
>	What's wrong with gna?  Were you referring to the quality of the glass or
>that using a cathedral or antique glass in a tiffany style lamp would not
>be the best choice of glass.
>	I have used gna in a few pieces and find it to be wonderful glass as well
>as a little pricy...  just curious.
>
>Barbara
>
>At 11:06 AM 7/7/99 -0700, Howard wrote:
>>why buy a Cadillac when you can a Yugo?
>>same for glass!
>>Each glass a purpose it more suited for......Would you buy cathedral or gna
>>glass for a  Tiffany styled lamp......I sure hope not! 
>
>
>
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 08:26:42 1999
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X-Path: soltec.net!tamis
From: "Tami Siddens" <tamis@soltec.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Senility Prayer
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:20:57 -0000
Message-ID: <1999Jul13.92057.0>
Precedence: bulk

Bud, I love it.  Just printed it out.  I plan to share.  Thanks for the
morning chuckle.  Tami


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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 09:32:53 1999
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X-Path: yahoo.com.!fatarch1
From: fatarch1@yahoo.com.
To: fatarch1@yahoo.com.
Subject: topsecrets
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:15:02 +0800
Message-ID: <199907131515.XAA28537@weblock.>
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Make Money From Home. 
NO HYPE JUST BIG WEEKLY PAYCHECKS. Call for details 
1-800-811-2141 Code 65033



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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 11:15:55 1999
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From: ATFSI@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Dichroic help
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:03:53 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul13.17353.0>
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Hi all,

I'm a very small manufacturer of hard (sputtered) dichroic coatings of many 
different types.  I'd like to explore the market in art glass but have 
absolutely no experience with what is desired, its pricing structure, what 
materials,  glasses to coat etc.

Basically I'm asking for any and all comments or information that might lead 
me in the right direction (even flames!)

Thanks ever so much,
Jack Bradshaw
atfsi@aol.com
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 15:36:59 1999
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X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee
From: "Shari Higbee" <shigbee@stmassociates.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>,
Subject: Re: Question..marketing
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:57:22 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul13.95722.0>
Precedence: bulk

>on July 21- 24 1999, there is the Grandmother of all Art
>Fair in Ann Arbor Michigan.

I am so jealous of your ability to go to this! I watched the Carol Duvall
show last weekend on HGTV and she showed a whole segment on the glass
artists that will be at the Ann Arbor Art Fest. Man, I want to be there!
There was one guy who did "glass cutting"--i'm still not sure exactly what
this is, but his stuff was gorgeous. It was big and heavy glass pieces--like
sculptures or maybe large bowls and vases, mostly clear glass but with some
color inside, and he said he carves the glass so it looks like it has real
sharp edges and points, but in reality they are not... Obviously something I
can't explain, but boy, I want one of his pieces. So if you see him, buy
something for me! :o)

>As a matter of fact, it a very
>tough show to get into.  (Several friends have tried)

Carol Duvall's son is a glass blower I believe, and he always exhibits there
too. I believe she said they get over 2000 applications each year from new
artists and select about 100-200 to invite--the rest are artists who have
exhibited before and are invited back.

Please report back after you go--I'll live vicariously through you on this
one!

Shari



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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 17:10:40 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: glass@intrastar.net
Subject: Re: Two questions
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:59:34 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.05934.0>
References: <<007001becd25$561d5700$8e328118@computer>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <007001becd25$561d5700$8e328118@computer>, Mary
<embee@mediaone.net> writes
>Hi all..
>I have two quick questions:
>1. If you do a design for resale, can you use a pattern or do you have to
>contact the artist for permission?

You have to get permission, unless the pattern allows reproduction for
sale.
>

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 17:26:43 1999
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Hectic, hectic...
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:52:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul13.14524.0>
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That's my life this month!  Looking forward to August and tripping to
Pennsylvania.  But my husband just dropped my new design assignment in
my lap.  Leaping large mouth bass!  And I finished the Art Deco Lady
design (I think), so need to make it, plus a lupine and dragonfly
design, plus a plain, large dragonfly.... Waiting for pickup on a
golfer, finishing a clock...

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 18:55:17 1999
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X-Path: citynet.net!khupp
From: Kathy <khupp@citynet.net>
To: Glass Expressions <glassx@bardstown.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help on pattern
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:51:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul12.185132.0>
References: <<1999Jul12.85418.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Ricky,

Try www.spectrumglass.com, set 5 of the free patterns. They have one you could
use or adapt.

Good luck!

Kathy

Glass Expressions wrote:

>  hello to all bungi and thanks for past help!  i'm hoping that you may head
> me in the right direction on finding a pattern for the comedy
> /tradjety(spelling)  seen mostly with theater   the happy and sad face  a
> person wanted one on a stepping stone - i could not find the true symbol .
> any help would be appreciated - thanks in advance  ricky
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 19:22:47 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Gloyn
From: Gloyn@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Surprise Dale Chihuly Demonstration-Lucky Me!!!
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 21:32:51 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.13251.0>
Precedence: bulk

In March I sat for four hours in the lobby of the Bellagio Hotel in mute 
amazement of the Dale Chihuly glass installation in the lobby.  Imagine my 
surprise today when I opened up the local paper on my train commute into the 
city and there is an article about how Dale Chihuly is helping kids at the 
city's public arts program design and execute an installation for Chicago's 
Millennium 2000 party and that today he is offering a public demonstration 3 
blocks from my office!!!  So I immediately rescheduled my day so I could 
attend.  I had a front row seat.  He helped the kids do paintings which would 
then be translated into....ready for this?.....plastic chandeliers!!!!  His 
partner said they were using plastic instead of glass because it is safer to 
hang in a public setting than glass but I think that probably it had to do 
with Chicago being unable to afford an actual glass Chihuly installation of 
this magnitude.  They are creating 250-500 (depending on how many they can do 
by then) chandeliers using all the colors contained in all of the flags from 
every country on Earth.  At the Millennium celebration there will be at two 
people present from every country as well.  Some people in the audience asked 
him to paint their clothes and one woman's hat.  He looked to be having a lot 
of fun squirting paint around to the sound of the Beatles blaring through the 
loudspeakers as they worked.  
So I have to say this was a pretty good day for me all in all!
Gwyn
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 20:03:12 1999
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X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>, "KIMBELL1@aol.com" <KIMBELL1@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Fwd: stained glass books
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 99 07:30:27 
Message-ID: <199907140136.TAA05413@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

Lou, and everyone else who chewed me out, I wasn't the one who sent the original mail 
out...I was just trying to be helpful, heaven forbid, by posting the place I had seen them.

Candy

On Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:08:32 EDT, KIMBELL1@aol.com wrote:

>
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>In a message dated 7/11/99 11:11:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>deskins@netphase.net writes:
>
><< To: "glass@bungi.com >>
>
>
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>From: "Lou Deskins" <deskins@netphase.net>
>To: glass@bungi.com
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Subject: Re: stained glass books
>Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:58:02 -0400
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>
>
>----------
>>From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
>>To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
>>Subject: Re: stained glass books
>>Date: Sat, Jul 10, 1999, 6:00 PM
>>
>
>>>There is a color book that I picked up,which has helped me
>>>eminently...Called "Color Harmony" by  Hideaki Chijiiwa.  Published by
>>>Rockport Publishers
>>
>>>It a great book!  I think I bought at Ed Hoy's in Chicago.  But, I haven't
>>>check Amazon could be there
>>
>>Amazon.com and Borders.com say that it is out of print.
>>
>It is not out of print.  It is at
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0935603069/stainedglasspatt and is
>sold $12.95 and ships within 24 hours.
>
>Lou
>----
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 21:23:17 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Sparks?
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:55:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul13.17553.0>
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Does anyone know when Sparks is supposed to be home?

T Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 21:53:22 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "2 Shirley's List" <glass@intrastar.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Big mouth
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 21:32:48 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul13.143248.0>
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Monday afternoon I noticed that the back of the new grandstand at the local
high school had been spray painted with grafitti  in a band about six feet
high and a hundred or so yards long. Must have taken several people more
than a few minutes to do this. The grandstand is a gift from a former
student and is something that public funds would never have done in todays
fiscal environment.

I was pi**ed to say the least but my anger was as nothing compared with that
of the school maintenance staff. I stopped in to offer to sandblast the
grandstand clean and you would have thought I had been sent from heaven. A
crew from the city public works department was having zero luck in removing
the paint from the very corse cement block surface.

So, today I became a registered volunteer (required) and signed papers to
the effect that I have not registered as a sex offender. Did not have to do
the fingerprint thing so my volunteering may not include students. All true.

Bought 800 pounds of crystal silica sand, checked out my OSHA approved masks
and headgear and now think I am ready to report for volunteer duty at 7:00
AM tomorrow. Got to start early to beat the heat.

One good thing is that I get to use the large air compressor at the school
and what with my 100 pound pressure pot should be able to blast up a storm.
My four horse compressor is not really up to a job like this.

Wish me luck and please send suggestions for keeping my mouth shut.
Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm

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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 22:05:16 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Big mouth
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:41:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul13.184148.0>
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I've known it from the start.  You *are* a gem, Bob Du! :o)
I wish you had some help.

Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Tue Jul 13 22:53:18 1999
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X-Path: cros.net!soraya
From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Big mouth
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:43:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul13.21432.0>
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>Wish me luck and please send suggestions for keeping my mouth shut.


I'll wish you luck...but no suggestions on keeping your mouth shut!!

It is the folks that are willing to go out of their way to make sure the
'hoodlums' don't think they are running the place that give me hope that
most of the world's populations is still decent...I do have my doubts at
times....

Thank you.

Soraya



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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 02:54:12 1999
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: <glass@intrastar.net>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Big mouth
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:36:18 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.93618.0>
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Uncle Bob!

I should have known that if any one was to have a sense of civic duty it
would be you! I'd give you a helping hand -- if I was there!

How are they going to stop it happening again?

I have been trying to find something to send you to show my appreciation for
the absorbing catalogue you sent me! We don't have any catalogues that can
compare so I will get a small book in the post to you about our village as
it was. I'm involved with the publishing company and I hope you find it
interesting!

Before you say it isn't necessary, most certainly is. You unstintly give
your experience and advice to everyone and, whilst I know you probably get a
kick out of it, I would like you to know that I for one very much appreciate
it.

Warm regards

Brian


> So, today I became a registered volunteer (required) and signed papers to
> the effect that I have not registered as a sex offender.  Did not have to
do
> the fingerprint thing so my volunteering may not include students. All
true.
>


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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 04:27:14 1999
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X-Path: northnet.org!frogplay
From: "Pamela A. Gilbert" <frogplay@northnet.org>
To: glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Big mouth
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 05:11:23 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul13.221123.0>
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We thank you for not keeping your mouth shut.  We all need people like us in the
community to make things work.  We need people that care and share.  Just think
if you had not said a word what the next football or sports game would be like.
You have always been a great person for sharing with all of us on the internet,
and we appreciate it so much, now you are sharing with the rest of the people
out there.  I can understand feeling like maybe you have kept quiet, but God
must of wanted your help on this sandblasting project.
Have a great day.
God Bless.
Pam G.

Bob Duchesneau wrote:

> Monday afternoon I noticed that the back of the new grandstand at the local
> high school had been spray painted with grafitti  in a band about six feet
> high and a hundred or so yards long. Must have taken several people more
> than a few minutes to do this. The grandstand is a gift from a former
> student and is something that public funds would never have done in todays
> fiscal environment.
>
> I was pi**ed to say the least but my anger was as nothing compared with that
> of the school maintenance staff. I stopped in to offer to sandblast the
> grandstand clean and you would have thought I had been sent from heaven. A
> crew from the city public works department was having zero luck in removing
> the paint from the very corse cement block surface.
>
> So, today I became a registered volunteer (required) and signed papers to
> the effect that I have not registered as a sex offender. Did not have to do
> the fingerprint thing so my volunteering may not include students. All true.
>
> Bought 800 pounds of crystal silica sand, checked out my OSHA approved masks
> and headgear and now think I am ready to report for volunteer duty at 7:00
> AM tomorrow. Got to start early to beat the heat.
>
> One good thing is that I get to use the large air compressor at the school
> and what with my 100 pound pressure pot should be able to blast up a storm.
> My four horse compressor is not really up to a job like this.
>
> Wish me luck and please send suggestions for keeping my mouth shut.
> Bob
>
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 04:56:40 1999
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: bob's supposed big mouth......aka bob's gift of giving of himself
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:29:08 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.11298.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 7/14/99 12:54:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
bobdu@prodigy.net writes:

> Wish me luck and please send suggestions for keeping my mouth shut.

See Bob, I was right that you were right, you are cool.........

There are a lot of people who are going to appreciate the work you are doing. 
  I consider myself lucky "knowing" someone like you.  

Keep up the good work, and may you never shut your mouth and become one of 
the silent masses.........

In awe of you,

IA  
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 05:26:49 1999
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X-Path: westinghouse.com!draggj
From: "Drag, Gloria J." <draggj@westinghouse.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>, 'Bob Duchesneau' <bobdu@prodigy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Big mouth
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:09:03 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.493.0>
Precedence: bulk

Bob,
	Have been thinking of your good intentions and especially work.. All
I want to do is to remind you,  that good will and help will be brought back
to you.. Remember, what goes around comes around, and  and  hopefully your
good work will return to you in ten folds.. 
	Try to stay cool, or by the time you read this message, your project
will be successfully completed and you will find a nice AC spot to relax in.
	Gloria
> ----------
> From: 	Bob Duchesneau[SMTP:bobdu@prodigy.net]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, July 14, 1999 12:32 AM
> To: 	Bungi; 2 Shirley's List
> Subject: 	Big mouth
> 
> Monday afternoon I noticed that the back of the new grandstand at the
> local
> high school had been spray painted with grafitti  in a band about six feet
> high and a hundred or so yards long. Must have taken several people more
> than a few minutes to do this. The grandstand is a gift from a former
> student and is something that public funds would never have done in todays
> fiscal environment.
> 
> I was pi**ed to say the least but my anger was as nothing compared with
> that
> of the school maintenance staff. I stopped in to offer to sandblast the
> grandstand clean and you would have thought I had been sent from heaven. A
> crew from the city public works department was having zero luck in
> removing
> the paint from the very corse cement block surface.
> 
> So, today I became a registered volunteer (required) and signed papers to
> the effect that I have not registered as a sex offender. Did not have to
> do
> the fingerprint thing so my volunteering may not include students. All
> true.
> 
> Bought 800 pounds of crystal silica sand, checked out my OSHA approved
> masks
> and headgear and now think I am ready to report for volunteer duty at 7:00
> AM tomorrow. Got to start early to beat the heat.
> 
> One good thing is that I get to use the large air compressor at the school
> and what with my 100 pound pressure pot should be able to blast up a
> storm.
> My four horse compressor is not really up to a job like this.
> 
> Wish me luck and please send suggestions for keeping my mouth shut.
> Bob
> 
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 06:28:26 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Sparks?
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:56:02 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.12562.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 7/14/99 12:24:29 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:

>Does anyone know when Sparks is supposed to be home?

Night before last. Rumor has it that somone vaguely fitting my physical 
description fell off a British Airways 777 in Philadelphia around 7 pm Monday 
evening, but that someone has been hibernating ever since and could not be 
reached for comment.

More later........


The missing person in question
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 06:39:14 1999
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Big mouth
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:18:40 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.161840.0>
Precedence: bulk

Best of luck Bob, you surprise me (always pleasantly) with your generosity.
And God bless.

Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----


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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 06:58:19 1999
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X-Path: ceps.nasm.edu!jellison
From: PJ Jellison <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
To: Stained Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Big mouth
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:43:52 -0400
Message-ID: <378C8606.D56B849@ceps.nasm.edu>
Organization: Smithsonian Institution
Precedence: bulk

Bob,

I just wish you lived in MY town.  I wish you good luck as you asked,
and God Bless you.

PJ Jellison 
(jellison@ceps.nasm.edu)

Bob Duchesneau wrote:
<snip>
... I stopped in to offer to sandblast the
> > grandstand clean and you would have thought I had been sent from heaven. A
> > crew from the city public works department was having zero luck in
> > removing
> > the paint from the very corse cement block surface.
> >
> > So, today I became a registered volunteer (required) and signed papers to
> > the effect that I have not registered as a sex offender. Did not have to
> > do
> > the fingerprint thing so my volunteering may not include students. All
> > true.
> >
> > Bought 800 pounds of crystal silica sand, checked out my OSHA approved
> > masks
> > and headgear and now think I am ready to report for volunteer duty at 7:00
> > AM tomorrow. Got to start early to beat the heat.
> >
> > One good thing is that I get to use the large air compressor at the school
> > and what with my 100 pound pressure pot should be able to blast up a
> > storm.
> > My four horse compressor is not really up to a job like this.
> >
> > Wish me luck and please send suggestions for keeping my mouth shut.
> > Bob
> >
> > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> > Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 07:16:20 1999
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly
From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: "Drag, Gloria J." <draggj@westinghouse.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>,
Subject: re: RE: Big mouth
Date: 14 Jul 99 09:31:09 -0500
Message-ID: <199907141333.JAA15689@smtp2.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk

Bob. . .

You are such a wonderful person!
I hope your blasting went just the
way you wanted!  

Nadine

www.nadinesfolly.com

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 07:33:24 1999
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: "'Witchdoc3@aol.com'" <Witchdoc3@aol.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: Sparks?
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:23:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.52334.0>
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Inquiring minds are wondering....

How many ghosts did you bag?
And what's this we hear about you and a " VERY "interesting" encounter with
a car park attendant in London"?

Vic M. (Who will wait till the hibernating Sparks wakes up and gets a meal
into her.)
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com




		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com]
		Sent:	Wednesday, July 14, 1999 8:56 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: Sparks?


		In a message dated 7/14/99 12:24:29 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com
writes:

		>Does anyone know when Sparks is supposed to be home?

		Night before last. Rumor has it that somone vaguely fitting
my physical 
		description fell off a British Airways 777 in Philadelphia
around 7 pm Monday 
		evening, but that someone has been hibernating ever since
and could not be 
		reached for comment.

		More later........


		The missing person in question
		----
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: Sparks?</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Inquiring minds are =
wondering....</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">How many ghosts did you bag?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">And what's this we hear about you and =
a &quot;</FONT> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">VERY "interesting" =
encounter with a car park attendant in London</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">&quot;?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M. (Who will wait till the =
hibernating Sparks wakes up and gets a meal into her.)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Witchdoc3@aol.com [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com">mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com</A>]</FONT></=
B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Wednesday, July 14, 1999 8:56 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Re: Sparks?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">In a message dated 7/14/99 12:24:29 =
AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;Does anyone know when Sparks is =
supposed to be home?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Night before last. Rumor has it that =
somone vaguely fitting my physical </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">description fell off a British =
Airways 777 in Philadelphia around 7 pm Monday </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">evening, but that someone has been =
hibernating ever since and could not be </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">reached for comment.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">More later........</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The missing person in question</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For subscription changes, please mail =
to: glass-request@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To send to the =
list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: =
glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Archives available at <A =
HREF=3D"http://www.bungi.com/glass" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></FONT>
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 07:33:35 1999
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:14:05 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: hotmail.com!dmbarker66
From: "Dawn M. Barker" <dmbarker66@hotmail.com>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Russian Glass
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:13:00 CST
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.14130.0>
Precedence: bulk

Don't know if any of you are interested, and I hope I'm not going to get 
flamed for this, but I thought it worth the effort to pass it on... I found 
a post on the ArtGlass World board and sent an inquiry.  A fellow had 
surplus glass for sale for $1 per sheet (which sounded great).  A follow-up 
email brought back this reply:

Hello Dawn,
I'm glad to hear from you.
This glass is cathedral and made in Russia by old glass-factory.
They make colored glass more than 200 years.
So, offered glass is good quality.
It is a surplus of big unfinished project in Moscow.
Approx. volume is half of 20' container or more.
Sheet size - 25cm x 25cm (9.8" x 9.8")
Thickness - 3mm (1/8")
I don't know exact quantity of sheets
because anybody re-counted it for a long time.
I re-counted red glass only. There is approx. 14,000 sheets of red.
I think cost of shipping will be acceptable
and total cost of glass will remain very profitable.
I can forward glass from Tallinn Estonia.
Cost of shipping 20' cont. from Tallinn to Montreal is approx. US$ 2,200
What is your port of delivery?
How many glass do you need?

I think to hold glass in hands is more better than to talk about it.
I can send you a glass set and offer you three delivery ways:

1. by post (cost - US$ 10, delivery time - a. 30-40 days)
2. by air mail (US$ 20, a. 20-25 days)
3. by express mail (US$ 65, 5-7days)

You pay only for delivery. Glass samples will be free for you.
If you agree please inform me your address and delivery way.
I will answer to any your questions with pleasure.

Best regards,
Valery

I don't have the finances to pull this one off though.  *Sigh* The glass 
deal of a lifetime, and here I sit.

So if anyone is interested, email me and I'll give you the add'y.  Or maybe 
several of us could pool and split the shipment?  Hmm... interesting.

Dawn


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 07:50:07 1999
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:16:19 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: hotmail.com!dmbarker66
From: "Dawn M. Barker" <dmbarker66@hotmail.com>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Big Mouth
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:16:22 CST
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.141622.0>
Precedence: bulk

Bob -

Not big mouth.  Just big heart.

(I always said that the reason my Mom had such hard labors was 'cause I was 
born with one hand sticking up in the air, and saying "I'll do it!  I'll 
help you!  Pick me!"  Maybe you were too?  (bg))

Anyway, dear friend, we are ALL proud of you.  You make the world a nicer 
place to be.

Dawn Barker


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 07:50:08 1999
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'Bob Duchesneau' <bobdu@prodigy.net>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>, 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: Big mouth
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:30:01 -0400
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Bob

The problem isn't keeping your mouth shut. It's getting other people to open
theirs.
If you ever have to do this again maybe you should blast the school emblem
into the wall.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Bob Duchesneau [mailto:bobdu@prodigy.net]
		Sent:	Wednesday, July 14, 1999 12:33 AM
		To:	Bungi; 2 Shirley's List
		Subject:	Big mouth


		Wish me luck and please send suggestions for keeping my
mouth shut.
		Bob

		Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
		Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm

		----
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<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Bob</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The problem isn't keeping your mouth =
shut. It's getting other people to open theirs.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">If you ever have to do this again =
maybe you should blast the school emblem into the wall.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Bob Duchesneau =
[<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:bobdu@prodigy.net">mailto:bobdu@prodigy.net</A>]</FONT></=
B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Wednesday, July 14, 1999 12:33 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Bungi; 2 Shirley's List</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Big mouth</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Wish me luck and please send =
suggestions for keeping my mouth shut.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Bob</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow =
Stained Glass 92026</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Check it out: <A =
HREF=3D"http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm</A></FON=
T>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For subscription changes, please mail =
to: glass-request@bungi.com</FONT>
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list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: =
glass@bungi.com</FONT>
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 08:02:46 1999
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:43:12 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: sky.net!dwood
From: "Charles R. Clark" <dwood@sky.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: glass samples
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:39:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.43956.0>
Precedence: bulk

Trying for a response to yet another question.

I've notice glass sample packs for sale. Do ANY of you find these to be
of use. That is, with the multicolored types of glass?
Gosh....wonder if more than one will respond to this one? :-)
C.
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 08:48:15 1999
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	for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:56:18 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland
From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:52:54 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.145254.0>
Precedence: bulk

Several years ago (many years ago), we brought a nephew out to stay with us 
in beautiful, streetwise Philadelphia.  He was brought up on a many acre 
spread in Alaska, and then lived in Washington State, near the Canadian 
border.  So out he comes to us, and we pick him up at the airport.....biggest 
thrill for him, was seeing REAL grafitti.   He had never seen any.   All the 
way home he was wowing and raving.....I had all I could do to keep my 
significant other from turning the car around and driving him back to the 
airport.  We had quite a discussion about graffitti, to say the 
least.....with side topics of urban blight, crime, watching your back ("put 
that nice watch away until we send you home").

Maureen
"No good deed goes unpunished"
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 09:10:26 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: <hotglass@list.bb.net>,
Subject: Archives of rec.crafts.glass 
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:02:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.1237.0>
Precedence: bulk

http://www.riordanartistry.com//htm/faq/faqtitl.htm

Was looking for info on using mica with hot glass beads, found this archive.
Thought others might be interested also.

Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://glass.intrastar.net




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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 09:37:23 1999
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X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve
From: Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Time for location list update
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:30:17 -0700
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990714083017.00993cd0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>
Precedence: bulk

I just got back from a long family vacation (more on the glass part of that
in a separate message) and am overcome with the urge to update the Who's
Where in Bungi-Land list.   If you're on the list already and need to make
any changes to your entry, please send the new info to me (privately) by
7/21.  If I don't hear from you, your vital statistics will show the same
as they did in the 4/1 list.  I've already incorporated the handful of
changes I received over the past few months...no need to send them again.

If you don't have the vaguest idea what I'm talking about, read on...

The Who's Where in Bungi-Land list shows (roughly) where bungi people call
home.  The list doesn't contain street addresses or phone numbers; in many
cases, it doesn't even show a person's full name.  Putting yourself on the
list is entirely voluntary.  You need not be a vocal list participant.
Lurkers can emerge safely from the shadows for a glimpse of daylight.

Sounds good, doesn't it?  Here's the catch.  By popular demand, the list is
distributed by private e-mail only to those on it.  You must give to receive.

To add yourself to the list, send me a private e-mail with as much of your
name and home town as you feel comfortable revealing.  Be aware that there
are numerous Internet resources that may enable someone to determine your
phone number and street address from the information you provide.  If this
possibility bothers you, include only your first name or just tell me where
you live regionally.  If you have pictures of your glasswork on the web or
are connected with a studio you'd like named, include that information, too.

Most people receive the list as a PDF document attached to a mail message.
Viewing and printing a PDF document requires you to have Adobe's Acrobat
Reader on your computer.  If you don't already have this *free* utility,
you can download it from 

http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html

Some people prefer to avoid mail attachments altogether.  If you are one of
them, make sure you let me know when you sign up.  I will then send you a
plain-text (completely unformatted) version of the list in the body of a
mail message.  Be aware that web sites and studio affiliations are not
included in the plain-text version.  

Steve
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 09:53:31 1999
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X-Path: one.net!kleeman
From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: NOT GLASS-catalog
Date: Wed Jul 14 08:39:10 1999
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.61710.0>
Precedence: bulk

those of you that helped me at the beginning of the year with information on
how to put together the catalog i was working on....good news (i think)
i have started shipping the catalog...so if you are expecting a catalog from
me you should start seeing them soon
about 1/2 of them have gone out that requested them....am working on the
other half now....
again, thanks to everyone for all your help and support of this venture of
mine...
just wanted to say thanks
debbie
if i offended  anyone with this post, i am sorry....flame me off list PLEASE


debbie taylor
kleeman@one.net
http://www.taylordexpressions.com
your complete stained glass supply source
1-888-488-9616

debbie

debbie taylor
kleeman@one.net
http://www.taylordexpressions.com
your complete stained glass supply source
1-888-488-9616


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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 09:56:59 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com
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Subject: Re: bob's supposed big mouth......aka bob's gift of giving of himself
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:13:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.5133.0>
References: <<1999Jul14.11298.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I'd sure consider myself in a pickle of Bob suddenly stopped speaking.
I'd sure miss him too.

t Suz


-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 10:18:28 1999
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From: "Drag, Gloria J." <draggj@westinghouse.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, "'Charles R. Clark'" <dwood@sky.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: glass samples
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:39:07 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.7397.0>
Precedence: bulk

I do not think you can go wrong with a sample pack of Spectrum glass.  Their
glass is pretty well uniform from sheet to sheet.. I took samples of them to
do a cabinet door..  However,  the exotic glasses are a different story.. I
believe samples of Yough would differ from sheet to sheet and also
throughout the sheet.
	I have samples of Bullseye.. If it is  a 1 colored glass, it is
good, but again  1 & 2, or 2 & 3 mixtures of colors per sheet will vary from
sheet to sheet and throughout the sheet.. I even found this to be true of
Wissmach 3 colored mixtures sheets of glass..  Which brings me to a sad
story.. My favorite glass shop is going out of business.. I was able to go
there and take a whole (uncut) sheet from their racks and choose from which
end I wanted to have my cut.. This enabled me to have good dense greens and
my favorite cranberry cranberry from a white, crystal  and cranberry sheet
of glass ( I did not have to buy the end with the majority of the sheet
being white and not cranberry)  
	Hope this helps
	Gloria
> ---------
> From: 	Charles R. Clark[SMTP:dwood@sky.net]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, July 14, 1999 10:39 AM
> To: 	glass@bungi.com
> Subject: 	glass samples
> 
> Trying for a response to yet another question.
> 
> I've notice glass sample packs for sale. Do ANY of you find these to be
> of use. That is, with the multicolored types of glass?
> Gosh....wonder if more than one will respond to this one? :-)
> C.
> ----
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> 
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 10:21:35 1999
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Dawn M. Barker" <dmbarker66@hotmail.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Russian Glass
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:00:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.207.0>
Precedence: bulk

Buying a lot of UNKNOWN glass UNSEEN is IMHO not recommended!
If it turns out to be "legit" and you do not like the product, any recourse?
Even getting a domestic supplier to hand select glass to what is a broad
specification you may ask for, is only as in most cases taking the next
sheet out of the rack or case.
Another observation, is it "cutable", annealed correctly and how has the
company survived or the glass (were sheets made 200 years ago) is how OLD?
For me, send me "the pig in the poke first", and then I will think on the
glass.

weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 10:37:29 1999
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Charles R. Clark" <dwood@sky.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass samples
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:04:30 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.2430.0>
Precedence: bulk

A sample pack for a machine maker of glass should give you a fairly good
idea of its properties.
Samples of hand-made (even production colors) opalescent glass of multiple
colors are usually about 2x3 and very rarely reflect the colors of the whole
sheet. You could get a piece that has one predominant color and streak of
another, JUST what you want/need.
The sheet comes in and only a small corner has that mix!
The beauty of hand-made is the lack of sameness of the whole sheet!
enjoy, H
weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 11:09:06 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: glass samples
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:21:55 -0400
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Message text written by "Charles R. Clark"
>I've notice glass sample packs for sale. Do ANY of you find these to be
of use. That is, with the multicolored types of glass?<

I find them invaluable.  I own glass sample sets from
Spectrum, Wissmach, Youghiogheny, Uroborus,
Kokomo, clear textures (a collection put together by
my distributor), glue chip (another collection put together
by my distributor), and Armstrong.

They help my clients see what the glass will look like
for real.  They help me in selecting sheets of glass.
And if I have to make a glass substitute, they are a
great resource.

Christie Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 11:22:08 1999
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X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen
From: David Cogen <cogen@ll.mit.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:31:35 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199907141630.MAA24650@ll.mit.edu>
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Hey, I like grafitti too!

At least those kids are doing something about all those ugly bare concrete
walls.

It's disgusting the way the city rushes out to obliterate every trace of
individual expression and decoration.


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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 11:40:24 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: check out this site
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:44:23 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.24423.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
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About 1/3 of the way down is a small pic of a bottle village. Check out
the pathway. 
http://www.arts.endow.gov/artforms/Folk/Outsider.html
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 11:43:16 1999
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From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:30:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.83010.0>
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Back in '87 Shauna, then 22, visited me from Winnipeg, Canada. It was here
first trip to New York City and her first visit outside Canada. She was
fascinated by the graffiti, some of it was very well done. But what really
amazed her though were the "Koch Windows".

An explanation for those unfamiliar with "Koch Windows". While Abe Koch was
Mayor of NYC he got fed up with all the boarded up windows in the abandoned
buildings. He decided to have fake windows painted on to the plywood.
Curtains, window panes and flower boxes were painted on in a variety of
styles. Most were done in black paint but a few were actually done in color.
Successive administrations did not agree with the policy and they are now a
footnote to the "Reign of King Koch".

Shauna thought I was making the whole thing up and foolishly bet on it. She
thought I was making a lot of things up and she was very entertaining as she
saw various imaginary things come to life. But I'm straying from the
subject.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Mosfunland@aol.com [mailto:Mosfunland@aol.com]
		Sent:	Wednesday, July 14, 1999 10:53 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Nonglass: grafitti

		Several years ago (many years ago), we brought a nephew out
to stay with us 
		in beautiful, streetwise Philadelphia.  He was brought up on
a many acre 
		spread in Alaska, and then lived in Washington State, near
the Canadian 
		border.  So out he comes to us, and we pick him up at the
airport.....biggest 
		thrill for him, was seeing REAL grafitti.   He had never
seen any.   All the 
		way home he was wowing and raving.....I had all I could do
to keep my 
		significant other from turning the car around and driving
him back to the 
		airport.  We had quite a discussion about graffitti, to say
the 
		least.....with side topics of urban blight, crime, watching
your back ("put 
		that nice watch away until we send you home").

		Maureen
		"No good deed goes unpunished"
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 11:57:21 1999
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Subject: Fwd: warning about another possible virus
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:11:51 EDT
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______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
Subject: RE: warning about another possible virus
Author:  Daryl Holeva <DHoleva@genetics.com> at Internet
Date:    7/14/99 11:48 AM


RE: warning about another possible virus
     
     
     another virus warning.  To check validity, go to the AOL home page, 
     they have lists of new viruses.
     
     
     > >  A new virus is around named WOBBLER. > >
     > >       So just in case you do no know about it yet, please read 
     > > what it says below:
     > >      It will arrive on an e-mail titled "CALIFORNIA". 
     > >    IBM and AOL have announced that it is VERY powerful 
     > > (more so than the Melissa virus) and has no remedy.
     > >
     > >    It will EAT all your information on the hard drive and
     > > also destroys Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer. 
     > >     DO NOT open anything with this title and please pass
     > > this  message on to all your contacts and anyone who uses your 
     e-mail
     > >  facility.
     > >
     > >      Not many people seem to know about this yet, so 
     > > propagate it as fast and as possible!
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
                               !
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 12:07:09 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Time for location list update
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:56:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.65626.0>
References: <<3.0.3.32.19990714083017.00993cd0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Welcome back.  We missed you.

Suzanne

Steve Wernecke wrote:
> 
> I just got back from a long family vacation (more on the glass part of that
> in a separate message) and am overcome with the urge to update the Who's
> Where in Bungi-Land list.   If you're on the list already and need to make
> any changes to your entry, please send the new info to me (privately) by
> 7/21.  If I don't hear from you, your vital statistics will show the same
> as they did in the 4/1 list.  I've already incorporated the handful of
> changes I received over the past few months...no need to send them again.
> 
> If you don't have the vaguest idea what I'm talking about, read on...
> 
> The Who's Where in Bungi-Land list shows (roughly) where bungi people call
> home.  The list doesn't contain street addresses or phone numbers; in many
> cases, it doesn't even show a person's full name.  Putting yourself on the
> list is entirely voluntary.  You need not be a vocal list participant.
> Lurkers can emerge safely from the shadows for a glimpse of daylight.
> 
> Sounds good, doesn't it?  Here's the catch.  By popular demand, the list is
> distributed by private e-mail only to those on it.  You must give to receive.
> 
> To add yourself to the list, send me a private e-mail with as much of your
> name and home town as you feel comfortable revealing.  Be aware that there
> are numerous Internet resources that may enable someone to determine your
> phone number and street address from the information you provide.  If this
> possibility bothers you, include only your first name or just tell me where
> you live regionally.  If you have pictures of your glasswork on the web or
> are connected with a studio you'd like named, include that information, too.
> 
> Most people receive the list as a PDF document attached to a mail message.
> Viewing and printing a PDF document requires you to have Adobe's Acrobat
> Reader on your computer.  If you don't already have this *free* utility,
> you can download it from
> 
> http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html
> 
> Some people prefer to avoid mail attachments altogether.  If you are one of
> them, make sure you let me know when you sign up.  I will then send you a
> plain-text (completely unformatted) version of the list in the body of a
> mail message.  Be aware that web sites and studio affiliations are not
> included in the plain-text version.
> 
> Steve
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 12:27:47 1999
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X-Path: juno.com!suzan.e.b1
From: suzan e becker <suzan.e.b1@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: glass samples
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:34:03 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.9343.0>
Precedence: bulk

If you mean the packs about 10 x 12, I use the really bright patterns as
accent pieces in prairie lamps - with planning, there is enough for all
four sides.  


From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 13:58:37 1999
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X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee
From: "Shari Higbee" <shigbee@stmassociates.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-catalog
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:29:56 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.72956.0>
Precedence: bulk

And my, what a catalog it is! Great work Debbie! Thanks.
Shari


>i have started shipping the catalog...so if you are expecting a catalog
from
>me you should start seeing them soon



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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 14:20:43 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Zeusluvr
From: Zeusluvr@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: "New" Glass I Found
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:27:27 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.192727.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all.  My husband & I just got back from a trip to Chicago.  (Love the 
cows!!!!!!!!!)  While out there, my in-laws took us to a glass shop that we 
found in the yellow pages.  While looking around her"studio" where she sold 
all kinds of supplies and glass.  We came upon a glass I had never seen 
before.  She told us it was "Fremont G Multi" and it was very expensive.  
Because Terry nor I had never seen this type of glass before, I asked "How 
expensive".  She told me the full sheet would run about $100.  We told her we 
would take what she had left (3.36 sq ft it turned out) and were charged 
$74.00.  Can anyone tell me about this glass?  It seems the more I think 
about it, the more I think she didn't really want to "get rid of" this piece 
and thought she had priced it high enough that we would pass.  (Is this 
another case of more money than brains.)  When she found out we were from PA, 
she right away "assumed" that we must be customers of "Warner" (of course) 
and how much she hated places like that that have such low Prices (yeah!!!!!) 
that can't possibly compete.  (Another possible finalist for Sales Person of 
the Year???)  Of course we sang the praises of Warner (who wouldn't) and paid 
for our glass and was turning to leave.  I saw she had SGN on the counter, 
and asked if I could take a copy.  She was very rude and said "Well I guess 
so".  This is right after paying $74. for 3 sq ft of glass!!!!!   Is this 
glass truly such a rare find or were we "country Bumpkins taken for a ride in 
the "big city"????   Would appreciate any comments!!

Thanks to all 

Susie Smith
Deep Woods & Glass
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 14:37:06 1999
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X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: <ATFSI@aol.com>
Subject: Re: warning about another possible virus
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:40:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.5403.0>
References: <<1999Jul14.171151.0>>
Precedence: bulk

http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/wobbler-hoax.html

 WOBBLER Virus Hoax
VirusName: WOBBLER Virus Hoax
Aliases: none
Known Variants: Hoax
Infection Length: Hoax
Area of Infection: Hoax
Likelihood: Hoax
Region Reported: email
Keys: Hoax


Description:
This information is a hoax and should be ignored.

Sample of hoax message:

Dear All,

For your reference, take necessary precautions. If you receive an email with
a file called California, do not open the file. The file contains WOBBLER
virus.

WARNING

This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL states that
this is a very dangerous virus, much worse than "Melissa", and that there is
NO remedy for it at this time. Some very sick individual has succeeded in
using the reformat function from Norton Utilities causing it to completely
erase all documents on the hard drive. It has been designed to work with
Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh
and IBM compatible computers. This is a new, very malicious virus and not
many people know about it.

Please ignore any messages regarding this "hoax" and do not pass on any
messages regarding it. Passing on messages about this hoax serves only to
further propagate it.

Write-up by: Motoaki Yamamura
Updated: May 15, 1999



Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org

Intrastar Glass List Website
http://glass.intrastar.net


----- Original Message -----
From: <ATFSI@aol.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 10:11 AM
Subject: Fwd: warning about another possible virus


>
>


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 15:07:32 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass samples
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:49:19 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.54919.0>
Precedence: bulk

I find the sample sets very useful when talking design possibilities with
clients.  I also find them somewhat useful when I am looking for glass in a
particular colour and I don't know which company might make it.  ( I am also
finding the new digital catalogues with images some of the glass companies
have fairly useful).

Of course with some multi-coloured or highly variable glass the small
samples can never give the whole picture.  Sometimes looking at full sheets
is the only way to go.  But I can not possibly stock every sheet of glass in
every single colour for clients to look at (plus they would get broken as
the client and me tried to handle a thousand sheets :-) ).  Even the nearby
glass retail outlets can not possibly stock everything.  So I find the
sample sets are a pretty good compromise.

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles R. Clark <dwood@sky.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 8:09 AM
Subject: glass samples


>Trying for a response to yet another question.
>
>I've notice glass sample packs for sale. Do ANY of you find these to be
>of use. That is, with the multicolored types of glass?
>Gosh....wonder if more than one will respond to this one? :-)
>C.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 15:49:43 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Awbaxter
From: Awbaxter@aol.com
To: dmbarker66@hotmail.com, Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Big Mouth
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:59:38 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.195938.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 7/14/99 10:52:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
dmbarker66@hotmail.com writes:

<< 
 Not big mouth.  Just big heart. >>

I agree with all the responses.  Good for you, Bob, even better for your 
community.
Ann
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 16:47:28 1999
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X-Path: stealthtech.com!dan
From: "Dan O'Mara" <dan@stealthtech.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Peter Crisp
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:18:13 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.71813.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am trying to locate Peter Crisp, a glass artist in Yass, NSW,
Australia.

Can anyone make any suggestion and/or help me locate a way to get in
touch with him directly?

Dan

dan@stealthtech.com

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 17:13:37 1999
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X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee
From: "Shari Higbee" <shigbee@stmassociates.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: "New" Glass I Found
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:47:16 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.94716.0>
Precedence: bulk

I've never seen Fremont but have always wanted to. If you've ever seen any
of the Glass Smith Studios books, all their color photos say they use
Fremont glass, and it is gorgeous. I've always described it as "like antique
only more so" if that makes any sense. I know my local supplier doesn't
carry it and I've never seen it in any of the mail order catalogs so I've
always assumed it was rare and expensive.

Shari in SLC
-----Original Message-----
From: Zeusluvr@aol.com <Zeusluvr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 3:32 PM
Subject: "New" Glass I Found


>Hi all.  My husband & I just got back from a trip to Chicago.  (Love the
>cows!!!!!!!!!)  While out there, my in-laws took us to a glass shop that we
>found in the yellow pages.  While looking around her"studio" where she sold
>all kinds of supplies and glass.  We came upon a glass I had never seen
>before.  She told us it was "Fremont G Multi" and it was very expensive.
>Because Terry nor I had never seen this type of glass before, I asked "How
>expensive".  She told me the full sheet would run about $100.  We told her
we
>would take what she had left (3.36 sq ft it turned out) and were charged
>$74.00.  Can anyone tell me about this glass?  It seems the more I think
>about it, the more I think she didn't really want to "get rid of" this
piece
>and thought she had priced it high enough that we would pass.  (Is this
>another case of more money than brains.)  When she found out we were from
PA,
>she right away "assumed" that we must be customers of "Warner" (of course)
>and how much she hated places like that that have such low Prices
(yeah!!!!!)
>that can't possibly compete.  (Another possible finalist for Sales Person
of
>the Year???)  Of course we sang the praises of Warner (who wouldn't) and
paid
>for our glass and was turning to leave.  I saw she had SGN on the counter,
>and asked if I could take a copy.  She was very rude and said "Well I guess
>so".  This is right after paying $74. for 3 sq ft of glass!!!!!   Is this
>glass truly such a rare find or were we "country Bumpkins taken for a ride
in
>the "big city"????   Would appreciate any comments!!
>
>Thanks to all
>
>Susie Smith
>Deep Woods & Glass
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 17:15:11 1999
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glass samples
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:29:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.132929.0>
References: <<1999Jul14.43956.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Long years ago I used to think about getting glass samples, and even had a
small box I carried around with some common colors in it.  But now, with so
many Web sites showing so many samples....nope can't feel that virtual
glass or hold it up to the light, but it helps.
Dorothy

"Charles R. Clark" wrote:

>
>
> I've notice glass sample packs for sale. Do ANY of you find these to be
> of use. That is, with the multicolored types of glass?
> Gosh....wonder if more than one will respond to this one? :-)

----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 19:51:37 1999
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X-Path: icsp.net!rballard
From: rballard@icsp.net (Robin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Fwd: warning about another possible virus
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 21:01:20 GMT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.21120.0>
References: <<1999Jul14.171151.0>>
Precedence: bulk

On Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:11:51 EDT, you wrote:
Here is what Norton Antivirus' website said about "Wobbler":

WOBBLER Virus Hoax Virus Name:        WOBBLER Virus Hoax
 Aliases:   none
 Known Variants:    Hoax
Infection Length:    Hoax
Area of Infection:    Hoax
Likelihood:              Hoax
Region Reported:   email
Keys:                      Hoax

Description:  This information is a hoax and should be ignored.

Sample of hoax message:

Dear All,=20
=46or your reference, take necessary precautions. If you receive an
email with a file called California, do not open the file. The file
contains WOBBLER virus.=20

WARNING=20

This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM;
AOL states that this is a very dangerous virus, much worse than
"Melissa", and that there is NO remedy for it at this time. Some
very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformat function
from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all documents
on the hard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape
Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh
and IBM compatible computers. This is a new, very malicious
virus and not many people know about it.=20

Please ignore any messages regarding this "hoax" and do not pass on
any messages regarding it. Passing on messages about this hoax serves
only to further propagate it.


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 20:11:13 1999
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X-Path: bellsouth.net!tidwell2
From: Rita Tidwell <tidwell2@bellsouth.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: thanks
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:58:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.135815.0>
Precedence: bulk

I wish to thank everyone who was so nice and understanding about my
problem. A technecian just spent 3 hours going over my equipment and
installing Norton AntiVirus and hopefully I'll have no more trouble.
Still feel guilty but no harm was intended. I'm still a little paranoid
but have enjoyed the bungi program so much and learned a lot so really
hate to unsubscribe as I considered doing.  The festival was the most
depressing 2 days I ever spent. Rude people, unsupervised 6-10 yr. olds
running all over, 12-14's showing off their new bras and loitering
teenagers. Won't do that one again. And to think, I had to pay for the
priviledge. By the way Jerri, I'm in Cedartown, on 27 south of Rome.
Aren't you near Athens. Used to go to Dairy Days at the university to
show cattle when the kids were young and cooperative. Beautiful country.
Thanks again everyone, you're a great group! Rita

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 20:13:29 1999
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X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@island.net
To: Zeusluvr@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: "New" Glass I Found
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:56:20 -0700
Message-ID: <199907142356.QAA28189@mimas.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Fremont Art Glass is made by a small shop in Seattle Washington.  It's hand
made and is very expensive...I don't think you were overcharged at all.
It's BEAUTIFUL stuff, isn't it?

It could be that it's hard to get out in Chicago, and if she also does
custom orders, she may not have wanted to part with it.

Not going to touch the rest of the discussion :)

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
http://come.to/The_E-Tour

----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 20:14:51 1999
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X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram
From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Big Mouth - Bob
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:22:12 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.102212.0>
Precedence: bulk

"and please send suggestions for keeping my mouth shut."

Personally, I wouldn't suggest anything.  As a teacher who frequently has to
impose on locals for help...I can tell you, this is a great service!  They
are right, you were sent from heaven.

In case, you and your compressor live long enough to complete the project,
you might talk to Guido about removing your tongue, and Salvatore can help
you with sign language....or so I remember someone else on bungi was
explaining.  Check the archives...I am sure you will find someone who knows
Guido.


----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 20:30:56 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: <Zeusluvr@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: "New" Glass I Found
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:34:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.143411.0>
References: <<1999Jul14.192727.0>>
Precedence: bulk

...Ah, Fremont Glass... the mind wanders... images of spring meadows and
flittering butterflies fill my thoughts... homicidal tendencies towards bank
managers pass away like a soft summer rain... Fremont Glass- the only 'true'
mouth blown antique glass being made in the great USA today (hey, I'm
Canadian and deeply envious, okay, eh?!)(aside from a somewhat antique from
companies such as Blenko...)

    According to an old profile on the company in 'The Edge'(or its
successor- I don't remember) from about ten years ago, Fremont Glass (in
Fremont, WA) is a company which at that time was comprised of five
glassblowers. They worked a seven hour day with an hour for lunch and
produced at the rate of about one sheet/hour making a daily production of 35
sheets with each sheet in the neighbourhood (Cdn spelling) of about 2.5-3
feet. Their specialty and hence most sought after glass is their
multi-coloured (Cdn spelling again) streakies which I will not even attempt
to describe, being full of prose but still unable to do justice to its
beauty. If you take a look at the first two books from Glassmith Studios (A
Break In Time and Northern Lights) you'll see Fremont being put to good use
here...

    Still to this day I find that geting a hold of a steady supply quite
difficult, but I got to admit that the stuff most recently in my store to be
something I've never seen before (and we stock over 1300 colours)- it is a
transparent pot base colour with metallic copper feathery streaks that are
100% reflective almost like mirror in surface light and yet totally
transparent in reflected light.


Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

----- Original Message -----
From: <Zeusluvr@aol.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: July 14, 1999 3:27 PM
Subject: "New" Glass I Found


> Hi all.  My husband & I just got back from a trip to Chicago.  (Love the
> cows!!!!!!!!!)  While out there, my in-laws took us to a glass shop that
we
> found in the yellow pages.  While looking around her"studio" where she
sold
> all kinds of supplies and glass.  We came upon a glass I had never seen
> before.  She told us it was "Fremont G Multi" and it was very
expensive> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

----
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 20:32:17 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: weird tools
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:40:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.144028.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BECE28.5803A480
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Okay, I've been lurking for awhile popping my head up occassionally when =
the mood warrants, sometimes disappointed in the misinformation that =
sometimes occurs, sometimes inspired otherwise, but today I feel frisky. =
Here's a sideways piece of nostalgia to maybe spur on some discussion...

    Anyone been around long enough to remember one of the first glass =
grinders? I remember the ads from the old Studio magazine for one that =
was a top that was designed to fit over and use the motor and blade =
attachment of an ordinary household blender! By the way, if anyone can =
find the ad I would love a copy...

Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2 =
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained =
glass supplier.


------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BECE28.5803A480
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Okay, I've been lurking for awhile popping my head =
up=20
occassionally when the mood warrants, sometimes disappointed in the=20
misinformation that sometimes occurs, sometimes inspired otherwise, but =
today I=20
feel frisky. Here's a sideways piece of nostalgia to maybe spur on some=20
discussion...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Anyone been around long enough to remember one =
of the=20
first glass grinders? I remember the ads from the old Studio magazine =
for one=20
that was a top that was designed to fit over and use the motor and blade =

attachment of an ordinary household blender! By the way, if anyone can =
find the=20
ad I would love a copy...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, =
Canada, M8Y 1L2=20
(Tel:416-252-6868)<BR>Canada's first and yes, still its only officially=20
sanctioned stained glass supplier.<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 20:48:34 1999
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From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: glass pathway- Shirley
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:49:16 -0600
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I just wanted to see more.  I wish I could find a close up.  To me it looks
as if she used large pieces of glass ( a square foot?) in her mosaic.  What
else could you tell?  While I was in Coronado, Ca, my husband and I passed a
house where the entire front  was done with a glass mosaic....it looked very
old.   It was like what the Navajo's call here a treasure necklace....a
collection of glass scraps arranged in a random pattern.   My husband turns
to me and says, you could do that.....my response was NOT!  cj

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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: NG bug repellant and air-conditioners, was Re: bungi fashion
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:22:44 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.232244.0>
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In a message dated 7/10/99 1:45:57 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:

>You'd be doing nothing outside my house nekkid!  Not unless you hose
>yourself down with bug repellant first! UGh!

One thing I noticed right away about England - I didn't see a single window 
screen *anywhere!* Spent a whole lot of time outdoors (who'da thunk I'd come 
home with a tan?) and got a total of 2 mosquito bites one evening when my 
gang and I were sitting out in the garden behind a pub, right at the river's 
edge.......... It would actually be possible to solder nekkid in a place that 
has such a sparse population of human-eating creatures!

Congrats on the new a/c, Suzanne - looks like hubby must be starting to take 
you seriously :-)


Sparks
	(ordinarily the mosquito's equivalent of steak tartare)
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From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-catalog-Debbie
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 99 09:00:52 
Message-ID: <199907150307.VAA05221@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

Debbie,

I couldn't send directly to you, for some reason, but can I have a catalog too?

Please email me directly for my address..

Thanks!
Candy

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Subject: Re: bungi fashion
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:22:52 EDT
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In a message dated 7/9/99 9:25:22 PM, Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home-Toby in UK 
writes:

>The Emperor would have taken fright, had a heart attack and died, had 
>he seen......

Awwwwwwww, c'mon. You're not *that* scary!


Sparks
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: "Color Harmony"....... and glass samples
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:22:48 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.232248.0>
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In a message dated 7/11/99 2:44:20 AM, soraya@cros.net writes:

>Amazon.com and Borders.com say that it is out of print.

Several subsequent posts have indicated that it's still available, but my 2 
cents' worth anyway......

A lot of "color books" go out of print because they include a sizeable 
proportion of "trendy" color combinations. Even the Pantone Guides - the 
printer's "bible" of color matching - are updated every so often as Pantone 
formulates "new" colors and gets rid of out-of-style ones.

Another thing to consider when looking for "ways to learn about color" is 
that color looks different in different media, and also in different styles 
and periods using the same media. Opaque samples - especially flat color 
chips - can never show you what glass will look like.

It seems to me that the best thing to do once you've got the basics of color 
theory is to invest in some glass sample sets (if you haven't already) and 
just play around with them. That way you get a feel not only for basic color 
combinations, but also for textures and the way light plays on and through 
glass.

Another thing to do is to go to art galleries and shows and museums, and take 
a close look at the ways artists use colors. My artist mom says her painting 
teacher (Wayne Thiebaud) told her class once, "First you learn the rules, 
then you learn how to break them." Look at the ways artists use the rules, 
and the ways they break them. Notice how the rules - and the prevailing color 
sense - change at different times...... and they change a lot!

And keep playing with your glass, and notice what catches your eye and/or 
gets a strong gut reaction. I'll bet you'll be surprised at how much color 
sense you have if you follow your instincts.

So much for my tuppence worth of rambling for now......... my body thinks 
it's 1:00 am, and my stomach has no idea what time it is (I really wanted 
breakfast at 4:00 this morning)........

p.s. I wrote this before I saw the thread on glass sample packs - I think it 
counts as a strong vote in favor of them!


Sparks
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From: Rickola@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: dalliance
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:30:55 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.23055.0>
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Here's an informative site.

http://www.pfg.co.za/history.htm
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 21:24:05 1999
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Subject: NG Boadicea meets Brunnhilde, was Re: Sparks 'n witchcraft???????
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:22:42 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.232242.0>
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In a message dated 7/9/99 8:17:01 PM, toby@northlights.co.uk writes:

>Despite many odds

Including Elisabeth's arrival at my place being delayed 2 hours by 2=20
road-destruction (oops, I mean construction..... no, I may have had it right=20
the first time) zones, one accident, and two funeral processions (which, she=20
tells me, move *very* slowly and you don't *dare* pass one)........ She trie=
d=20
to phone me twice from her car but the lines were busy......

>Sparks and I met up in London town, had lunch=20
>together and spent a hot few hours around the Royal Festival Hall on=20
>the South Bank of the River Thames in London.

We drove across town to the vicinity of Waterloo Station where I was to catc=
h=20
the 5:00 train to Salisbury. Walked through the Royal Festival Hall, had a=20
glass of wine and caught the last few minutes of a free concert by a young=20
people's Big Band, they were HOT!!!!! Then walked across the street to a caf=
e=20
that was built into one of the arches of the bridge there, found a table on=20
the sidewalk and had another glass of wine with our lunch.

>We had a VERY "interesting" encounter with a car park attendant in=20
>London, but I will let her tell you the story herself (SHE saw the=20
>funny side!!!).

Somewhere in our travels, the ticket to the car-park disappeared and we ende=
d=20
up having to pay =A319 to get out, which was bad enough except that the=20
attendant (who was a bit full of himself as only a petty bureaucrat can be)=20
insisted that Elisabeth fill out a form reporting the lost ticket - which sh=
e=20
wasn't about to do. She started raising hell at him that she had to deliver=20
an American to the train station in 5 minutes. The guy was also in the midst=20
of another argument with 2 other people, who started chiming in at him about=20
"let these poor people go, they're giving you the =A319, etc." At one point=20
Elisabeth revved up the car (a Saab, of course!) like she was about to crash=20
the gate. I think that scared him. It sure scared me (Elisabeth, I don't=20
think you saw me flinch - I was ready to dive under the dashboard)!

Finally he called up his supervisor to find out what to do about all these=20
crazy people who were besieging him, and he handed the phone out the booth=20
window to Elisabeth, who let the supervisor know in no uncertain terms that=20
she wasn't going to fill out any bloody forms! So the guy finally took our=20
money, and because we didn't have a ticket to raise the gate, he had to get=20
out of the booth and detach the bar from the gate mechanism so we could get=20
out.

By this time I was having a very hard time not laughing hysterically in spit=
e=20
of (or maybe because of) the fact that I was on the verge of missing what I=20
thought would be the last train of the day, and I figured, what the hey, if =
I=20
miss it and there's not a later one, we'll just go get dinner (and the next=20
round or two are on me) and maybe see a bit more of the city, then she can=20
deliver me back to where I was staying and I'll get a train tomorrow, and it=20
will be a real adventure! (I *do* have a rather warped sense of humor at=20
times.........)

(I must admit, Elisabeth under full steam would be Very Scary if I didn't=20
know her at least somewhat already...... I kind of suspected she had it in=20
her to raise hell like that, and it was a pretty good performance. I half=20
expected her to go into a torrent of Swedish invective a la Crazy Viking, bu=
t=20
it didn't happen.)

So we charged on over to Waterloo Station and drove around it one and a half=20
times because we couldn't find either a place to park or anything resembling=20
a "main entrance." Finally Elisabeth pulled the car into the employees-only=20
lot and said, "You go on in and get your ticket, and I'll follow with your=20
luggage." So I dashed across the street (by this time it was 5:00) and took=20
about 10 minutes trying to find out where in the heck you get tickets for=20
anything except the underground. Finally found the ticket office in this sor=
t=20
of hole in the wall and got my ticket for the next train out, which was due=20
to leave in 20 minutes. Elisabeth showed up with my luggage, we got a shop=20
attendant to take a picture of us together, and we hung out for a little=20
while before I had to leave.

>The concerts in London went exceedingly well

Actually it was only one in London and a concert and 2 church services in=20
Dartmouth - all of which went very well!

>and according to Sparks,=20
>Christie has already been afforded "sainthood".

Or at the very least, the Iron Constitution Award for packing up and moving=20
shop lock, stock, and barrel with very little interruption in the ongoing=20
work!

>Authorities and weather allowing, she is now stalking ghosts and=20
>ghoulies around Stonehenge, before further jorneying to Dartmouth in=20
>the West Country.=20

I did spend a couple of hours on Friday afternoon at Stonehenge, having take=
n=20
the regular local bus out there instead of opting for the tour with some of=20
my fellow travellers. I just wanted to be away from a gang of people while I=20
was there. You can get a handset gadget with a programmed self-guided tour,=20
and there are plenty of real people around to answer questions (and=20
incidentally keep you from climbing the bluestones).

Also wandered around Old Sarum (at the northern edge of the town of=20
Salisbury) for a while...... the place was technically closed for the night,=20
but the locals showed me the back way in. Lots of people go up there on=20
summer evenings. The only part you can't get to when it's closed is the old=20
fort on top of the hill.

So...... that's *part* of Sparky's Amazing Adventures in Wonderland..... I'm=20
ready to go back next week (but with only about half as much luggage this=20
time!!!!!!!!!)........

.........back to the 290 e-mails that have accumulated since I left on the=20
5th......


Sparks
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Maxfield Parrish, was Re: Mosaics...Tiffany
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:22:39 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.232239.0>
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In a message dated 7/12/99 12:13:54 AM, soraya@cros.net writes:

>I know what you mean about seeing Sue Lewin in 'every' person Parish painted
>just about....it is kinda funny once you get used to it!!

And he himself was the model for a lot of the male characters in his 
paintings - he was a master of self-caricature!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 21:32:57 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>, <Zeusluvr@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: "New" Glass I Found
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:48:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.194824.0>
References: <<1999Jul14.143411.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know where online I could view this glass? Sounds wonderful!!
mary
>


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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Big mouth
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:22:50 EDT
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In a message dated 7/14/99 12:54:24 AM, bobdu@prodigy.net writes:

>I stopped in to offer to sandblast the
>grandstand clean and you would have thought I had been sent from heaven.
>[...]
>Wish me luck and please send suggestions for keeping my mouth shut.

You get the sainthood award for the day - or maybe the week. Good luck!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 21:36:44 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Sparks at Stonehenge
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:23:04 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.23234.0>
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vmodiano@ctronsoft.com's inquiring mind wants to know:

>How many ghosts did you bag?

None; I don't think they're about much during the day. But being 
energy-sensitive, I did get quite a "buzz" from the place! I did get someone 
to take a picture of me there - we'll see if any ghosties show up in the 
picture......


Sparks
	who's finally come to the end of the 290 e-mails.....

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 21:40:23 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: NG Re: People Eating Tasty Animals
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:22:46 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.232246.0>
Precedence: bulk


A few daze ago, Vic M. asked:

>Who wants to eat raw animal?

All those who go for steak tartare, oysters on the half-shell, sushi 
(technically sashimi, actually).......

Waiter! I'll have the steak tartare, please...... hold the anchovies!


Sparks
	Card-carrying member of People Eating Tasty Animals
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 21:44:57 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Charles R. Clark" <dwood@sky.net>
Subject: Re: glass samples
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:22:08 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.1228.0>
References: <<1999Jul14.43956.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

OK Charles.  I rise to challenges (sometimes)
        I find sample sets essential, although limited.  They are an
essential starting point, they can be placed in conjunction with one
another, they give the code number to enable me to buy from remote
suppliers.
        They are limited by the small size (necessary for portability
and economy) for more variegated glasses.
        They are now supplemented by pictures on the web sites of some
manufacturers.

Steve
In message <1999Jul14.43956.0@?>, Charles R. Clark <dwood@sky.net>
writes
>Trying for a response to yet another question.
>
>I've notice glass sample packs for sale. Do ANY of you find these to be
>of use. That is, with the multicolored types of glass?
>Gosh....wonder if more than one will respond to this one? :-)
>C.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Archives of rec.crafts.glass 
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:01:07 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.817.0>
Precedence: bulk

That was a good  site Bud. Thanks

Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: Bud Britt <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: hotglass@list.bb.net <hotglass@list.bb.net>
Date: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:32 AM
Subject: Archives of rec.crafts.glass


|http://www.riordanartistry.com//htm/faq/faqtitl.htm
|
|Was looking for info on using mica with hot glass beads, found this
archive.
|Thought others might be interested also.
|
|Sincerely,
|Bud Britt
|
|computerministry@unitytustin.org
|
|Intrastar Glass List Website
|http://glass.intrastar.net
|
|
|
|
|----
|For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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|Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
|

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 21:48:59 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:Zeusluvr@aol.com" <Zeusluvr@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: "New" Glass I Found
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:14:21 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.161421.0>
Precedence: bulk

None of our Fremont (which is mouthblown
and thus more expensive) is listed in a =

wholesale catalog as "G Multi" .... am
presuming it means multi-color.  Price
range wholesale is $12 - $21 per s.f. so
double that for retail.  We've paid up to =

$35 s.f. wholesale for hot pink flash.  Any
of the mouthblown glasses will be in that
ballpark.... so, depending on the color you
purchased you probably did just fine.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 21:54:16 1999
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From: Delores Taylor <atayloreddesign@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Fremont Glass
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:17:21 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199907150017.UAA05800@hpamraaa.compuserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Fremont Glass is hand blown glass made in Seattle WA.  
It is expensive since it's hand blown.  I do not 
believe they sell retail or wholesale only to distributors.

The unique colors give an artistic flare that few other 
glass manufacturers can match.  Great for those commisions 
that make it worthwhile to use such an expensive choice.


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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 22:01:29 1999
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From: "Wendy Larson" <wendy_larson@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Doberman Pinscher pattern
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:33:33 CDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.03333.0>
Precedence: bulk

I need a pattern for just the head or head/neck/shoulder of a Dobie.
My husband has a blue Dobie and I finally found the perfect piece of glass 
that is the most unusual blue grey. But I can not find the pattern anywhere. 
This is to be used as part of a mirror that will go on the back of a dresser 
top men's antique valet. Thanks in advance to anyone that can help!!!!


_______________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 22:10:37 1999
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X-Path: cros.net!soraya
From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <Witchdoc3@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG bug repellant and air-conditioners, was Re: bungi fashion
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:21:27 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.202127.0>
Precedence: bulk

>One thing I noticed right away about England - I didn't see a single window
>screen *anywhere!*

You won't find screens in most of Europe (at least the parts I lived
in....France and Germany)...I never saw them in any of my travels elsewhere
either.......there simply is not the flying critter problem there that there
is here in the States.

Soraya

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From owner-glass Wed Jul 14 22:39:41 1999
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X-Path: one.net!kleeman
From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: NG:t-chat
Date: Wed Jul 14 21:20:51 1999
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.185851.0>
Organization: taylor'd Expressions
Precedence: bulk

i am going to cheat and take the easy way out (worked to many hours today to
type in any long sentences that make any sense)

i agree with linda jo, brian ....etc

we have had these comments before, and understandably the list is not going
to be for everyone....i think brian making the strongest point in the fact
that we had not heard from her....when i read her name, i thought, well-who
is this?  if she had some input and we just ignored her and didn't reply to
her, i would understand but i had never even seen her name before, and it
was not a common name

well, i am rambling....glad i type with my fingers and not my feet, they
hurt too bad right now

thanx
debbie

debbie taylor

taylor'd Expressions
"Your complete art glass supply source."
kleeman@one.net
http://www.taylordexpressions.com/
1-888-488-9616 (toll free)


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 00:58:34 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "2 Shirley's List" <glass@intrastar.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Big mouth
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 21:42:49 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul14.144249.0>
Precedence: bulk

Many thanks for all the kind words. I am very glad that I put my mouth where
my thoughts were.

The work went well but is only half done. Turned out to be a much harder job
removing the graffiti than I had thought. I shot 800 pounds of crystal
silica and have a new load of 800 pounds for tomorrow. The half of the
football grandstand backside that is done shows no trace of the paint. Some
of it WAS words that begin with S and F.

At various times during the day I was visited by the Principle, Vice
Principle, and Captain of the football team. I now have an Escondido High
School hat, a Cougars hat and tickets to Saturdays game. The Captain (looked
like a boy to me) thanked me for helping to repair the damage to his teams
new stadium. Good thing he beat a hasty retreat because I was struck with
memories of my proud football days at Saint A. They still make wonderful
children.

Hard and hot work yes but very satisfying. Got to operate a new Hawthorne
high lift that does everything but talk. Don't know what one of these babies
costs but this one rents for $175.00 a day. More tomorrow.
Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 06:53:30 1999
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: A nice decription
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:49:32 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.164932.0>
Precedence: bulk

I was writing to a friends just moments ago, about a decription of glass
that I consider the best. I am quoting it here (for the our younger friends
of course, most must hace certainly read it.

>From "How to work in Stained Glass" by the Isenbergs

"But no definition of glass is satisfactory in terms of describing all the
permutations of this remarkable material.

Physically it is a paradox, chemically it is idiosyncratic, artistically it
is challenging, pragmatically it is ubiquitous, prismatically it is
spectacular, ocularly it both near and far seeing"

Have you seen a description of this wonderful material that you like to
share?


Wonder how Dale Chihuly would describe glass. Has anyone ever asked him
that?

Warm Regards

Shakeel Abedi

shakeel@tm.net.my
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 07:37:40 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG bug repellant and air-conditioners, was Re: bungi
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:46:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.5465.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Soraya"
>You won't find screens in most of Europe (at least the parts I lived
in....France and Germany)...I never saw them in any of my travels elsewhe=
re
either.......there simply is not the flying critter problem there that
there
is here in the States.<

Same is true is New Zealand.  But the locals do favor bug spray indoors
which I find yucky.

Christie Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 08:46:31 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com, glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Big mouth
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:50:10 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.145010.0>
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In a message dated 7/15/99 3:59:43 AM, bobdu@prodigy.net writes:

>Many thanks for all the kind words. I am very glad that I put my mouth
>where my thoughts were. [...]
>
>Got to operate a new Hawthorne
>high lift that does everything but talk.

Awwwwwww, Mr. Sawyer, can I help you paint that fence?

I just can't resist MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!!

:-)

But seriously, you're a Real Hero, guy! Enjoy that game, and holler out a few 
cheers for yourself while you're at it!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 10:24:48 1999
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X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo
From: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
To: Bob Duchesneau <bobdu@prodigy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Big mouth
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:12:05 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.2125.0>
References: <<1999Jul14.144249.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Bob Duchesneau wrote:

> Many thanks for all the kind words. I am very glad that I put my mouth where
> my thoughts were.
>
> The work went well but is only half done. Turned out to be a much harder job
> removing the graffiti than I had thought. I shot 800 pounds of crystal
> silica and have a new load of 800 pounds for tomorrow. The half of the
> football grandstand backside that is done shows no trace of the paint. Some
> of it WAS words that begin with S and F.
>
> At various times during the day I was visited by the Principle, Vice
> Principle, and Captain of the football team. I now have an Escondido High
> School hat, a Cougars hat and tickets to Saturdays game. The Captain (looked
> like a boy to me) thanked me for helping to repair the damage to his teams
> new stadium. Good thing he beat a hasty retreat because I was struck with
> memories of my proud football days at Saint A. They still make wonderful
> children.
>
> Hard and hot work yes but very satisfying. Got to operate a new Hawthorne
> high lift that does everything but talk. Don't know what one of these babies
> costs but this one rents for $175.00 a day. More tomorrow.

Good for you Bob Duchesneau.  This is a good thing yer doin'.  More power to
ya.  What was that thang about "cast your bread upon the waters and it shall be
returned to you." ?  Something like that anyway.  Hopefully, some of those young
people seeing you do this for their school will do the same thing later on, when
its their turn so to speak.

Highest regards ....... Bob Kerr



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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 13:45:20 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: NG bug repellant and air-conditioners, was Re: bungi
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:36:26 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.193626.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 7/15/99 10:39:08 AM, Ensembles@compuserve.com writes:

>Same is true is New Zealand.  But the locals do favor bug spray indoors
>which I find yucky.

Gak. My mom used to do that inside the tent when we went camping. Once we got 
the tent zipped up for the night she'd take out the Raid and spray away. I 
used to pull my sleeping bag over my head to filter out the smell, and she'd 
yell at me that I was going to suffocate if I did that. I always figured that 
suffocating inside the sleeping bag would be a far more pleasant end than 
suffocating from the stinky old bug spray........


Sparks
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 14:07:19 1999
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: fremont glasss
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:09:23 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.6923.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Cline's in Portland Or.(remember the place with the sign) sells 5 colors
of fremont ranging from $14.50-25.25 retail.  I don't know if that is by
the lb. or square foot. Help me out here Howard, you should know.  They
had one awhile back, that was clear and it lookes like it had rainbow
balloons floating in it.  Gorgeous stuff.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 15:21:28 1999
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X-Path: csinet.net!stainedglasslamps
From: "Stained Glass Lamps" <stainedglasslamps@csinet.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:13:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.11135.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BECEDC.EB6BF380
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

We have heard from many of the members of the chat group about our web =
site, they have been so nice with compliments on my works of art, & most =
of them want to know when & if I was comming out with a book, on how to =
make the three-dimensional stained glass items I have on my site    =
www.stainedglasslamps.com
I now have come out with an instructional book for sale but I don't know =
how to get ahold of these great folks, can you help me out?  My e-mail =
address is  stainedglasslamps@csinet.net

Will wait to hear from you.   Thank You!

Arkie  Pisello  Sr.

   =20

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BECEDC.EB6BF380
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>We have heard from many of the =
members of the=20
chat group about our web site, they have been so nice with compliments =
on my=20
works of art, &amp; most of them want to know when &amp; if I was =
comming out=20
with a book, on how to make the three-dimensional stained glass items I =
have on=20
my site&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.stainedglasslamps.com">www.stainedglasslamps.com</A></=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>I now have come out with an =
instructional book=20
for sale but I don't know how to get ahold of these great folks, can you =
help me=20
out?&nbsp; My e-mail address is&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:stainedglasslamps@csinet.net">stainedglasslamps@csinet.net=
</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Will wait to hear from you.&nbsp;&nbsp; Thank=20
You!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Arkie&nbsp; Pisello&nbsp; Sr.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BECEDC.EB6BF380--

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 15:54:17 1999
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass
From: "K See" <kseeglass@netzero.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Sidelights to Foil or lead?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:32:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.133231.0>
Precedence: bulk

I  have received a call from a women who saw my work at a demonstration I
did in June. She has two sidelights at front door 6.5" x 36". I do not use
patterns for my work/style, which she said "I've been looking for you my
whole life" (now if a man said that...<bg>

I called a member of our guild who has done many windows. She said it should
be lead because with copper foil the panel may/could crack/break from the
vibration of the door closing.

What do you think?

I am meeting with the client this weekend and if it should not be done in
foil I will pass.

KSee

"Art is the only way to run away without leaving home"
Twyla Tharp

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 16:11:34 1999
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X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee
From: "Shari Higbee" <shigbee@stmassociates.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: fremont glasss
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:04:36 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.10436.0>
Precedence: bulk

I'm just a lowly hobbyist. I've asked my local retailer for Fremont and
they've never heard of it. Is there any way I can buy some, from Fremont or
anyone else, being just a one-person little show? Anyone know?

Shari

From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>


>Cline's in Portland Or.(remember the place with the sign) sells 5 colors
>of fremont ranging from $14.50-25.25 retail.  I don't know if that is by
>the lb. or square foot.


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 16:45:06 1999
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Shirley Balloch" <balloch@netbridge.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: fremont glasss
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:10:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.8102.0>
Precedence: bulk

Because Freemont is primarily clear it is not a glass I can/would use for
lamps.
I do not remember if it by the pound or square foot.
It is to the advantage of the seller to charge by the pound as you get to
pay for the rolled edge, too.
enjoy, H
weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 17:13:50 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: bungi fashion
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:21:25 +0000
Message-ID: <199907152228.WAA32256@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
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Hey! ....
Are you SURE about that??!!
That's not quite the image I'd like to get across.
You know....!..... 
The Viking with horns on!
Devouring little beaurocratic little chaps  for breakfast;
prancing about in my garden at midnight with solder blobs on my tummy 
button.
You are SPOILING my image!!!
See ya soon!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


> In a message dated 7/9/99 9:25:22 PM, Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home-Toby in UK 
> writes:
> 
> >The Emperor would have taken fright, had a heart attack and died, had 
> >he seen......
> 
> Awwwwwwww, c'mon. You're not *that* scary!
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 17:35:35 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: NG bug repellant and air-conditioners, was Re: bungi fashion
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:21:25 +0000
Message-ID: <199907152228.WAA32253@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
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Hey Petal,
I am glad you wern't attacked by the flying critters.
What you didn't see along Old Father Thames as we were having our 
lunch was the back end of a rat - as large as a Jack Russell terrier, 
disappearing down towards the Riverbank. . It was the biggest rat I 
have seen since I spent some time along the river Seine in Paris some 
25 years ago.
Phew.
Glad you made it back safe and sound.....
Looking forward to NO car parking hassle meeting with you in a few 
weeks time.....
If I had had to strangle that guy with my bare hands..... I think you 
know I would have done it.... If not, I think I would have caused a 
hell of a lot of damage to the London City Car Park Authority Car 
Parks Property.........   ;-> ( I had wicked schemes on that 
telephone piece that guy handed to me......)
 .....and ENJOYED every second of it.....!!! 
Glad you enjoyed it!!
See ya!!

Elisabeth 'n unfortunately absent Toby (who would have relished a 
West Indian steak.....)
> In a message dated 7/10/99 1:45:57 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:
> 
> >You'd be doing nothing outside my house nekkid!  Not unless you hose
> >yourself down with bug repellant first! UGh!
> 
> One thing I noticed right away about England - I didn't see a single window 
> screen *anywhere!* Spent a whole lot of time outdoors (who'da thunk I'd come 
> home with a tan?) and got a total of 2 mosquito bites one evening when my 
> gang and I were sitting out in the garden behind a pub, right at the river's 
> edge.......... It would actually be possible to solder nekkid in a place that 
> has such a sparse population of human-eating creatures!
> 
> Congrats on the new a/c, Suzanne - looks like hubby must be starting to take 
> you seriously :-)
> 
> 
> Sparks
> 	(ordinarily the mosquito's equivalent of steak tartare)
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 17:39:12 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Russian Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:21:25 +0000
Message-ID: <199907152228.WAA32237@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
Busy packing.......
Out of lurker mode, there will be a couple of responses from Across 
The Pond on one or two things.
This was one of them that caught my eye.

Over the years I have had occasions to buy East European AND Russian 
glass. , the latter of which  I have had occasions to buy..... WHEN 
available. My experience of Russian Glass is that it is a very good 
quality glass - easy to cut and work Very similar to French half 
antique. As regards the colours and the colour mixes; it has never 
been disappointing.... often there are colours to "die for"; old "pot 
blues - for instance-  that haven't been made in the rest of Europe 
for hundreds of years.
I still have a few 1/4 sheets left of blues,  turqouise and greens 
that I bought about 2 years ago from a batch of Russian glass I 
stumbled on.  
My advice:
Go get samples, do go and see, try and get a few of you together to 
buy together - if at all possible. It's beautiful glass - of what I 
know of it....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK




> Don't know if any of you are interested, and I hope I'm not going to get 
> flamed for this, but I thought it worth the effort to pass it on... I found 
> a post on the ArtGlass World board and sent an inquiry.  A fellow had 
> surplus glass for sale for $1 per sheet (which sounded great).  A follow-up 
> email brought back this reply:
> 
> Hello Dawn,
> I'm glad to hear from you.
> This glass is cathedral and made in Russia by old glass-factory.
> They make colored glass more than 200 years.
> So, offered glass is good quality.
> It is a surplus of big unfinished project in Moscow.
> Approx. volume is half of 20' container or more.
> Sheet size - 25cm x 25cm (9.8" x 9.8")
> Thickness - 3mm (1/8")
> I don't know exact quantity of sheets
> because anybody re-counted it for a long time.
> I re-counted red glass only. There is approx. 14,000 sheets of red.
> I think cost of shipping will be acceptable
> and total cost of glass will remain very profitable.
> I can forward glass from Tallinn Estonia.
> Cost of shipping 20' cont. from Tallinn to Montreal is approx. US$ 2,200
> What is your port of delivery?
> How many glass do you need?
> 
> I think to hold glass in hands is more better than to talk about it.
> I can send you a glass set and offer you three delivery ways:
> 
> 1. by post (cost - US$ 10, delivery time - a. 30-40 days)
> 2. by air mail (US$ 20, a. 20-25 days)
> 3. by express mail (US$ 65, 5-7days)
> 
> You pay only for delivery. Glass samples will be free for you.
> If you agree please inform me your address and delivery way.
> I will answer to any your questions with pleasure.
> 
> Best regards,
> Valery
> 
> I don't have the finances to pull this one off though.  *Sigh* The glass 
> deal of a lifetime, and here I sit.
> 
> So if anyone is interested, email me and I'll give you the add'y.  Or maybe 
> several of us could pool and split the shipment?  Hmm... interesting.
> 
> Dawn
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 19:58:09 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: NG bug repellant and air-conditioners, was Re: bungi fashion
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:21:25 +0000
Message-ID: <199907152228.WAA32253@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hey Petal,
I am glad you wern't attacked by the flying critters.
What you didn't see along Old Father Thames as we were having our 
lunch was the back end of a rat - as large as a Jack Russell terrier, 
disappearing down towards the Riverbank. . It was the biggest rat I 
have seen since I spent some time along the river Seine in Paris some 
25 years ago.
Phew.
Glad you made it back safe and sound.....
Looking forward to NO car parking hassle meeting with you in a few 
weeks time.....
If I had had to strangle that guy with my bare hands..... I think you 
know I would have done it.... If not, I think I would have caused a 
hell of a lot of damage to the London City Car Park Authority Car 
Parks Property.........   ;-> ( I had wicked schemes on that 
telephone piece that guy handed to me......)
 .....and ENJOYED every second of it.....!!! 
Glad you enjoyed it!!
See ya!!

Elisabeth 'n unfortunately absent Toby (who would have relished a 
West Indian steak.....)
> In a message dated 7/10/99 1:45:57 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:
> 
> >You'd be doing nothing outside my house nekkid!  Not unless you hose
> >yourself down with bug repellant first! UGh!
> 
> One thing I noticed right away about England - I didn't see a single window 
> screen *anywhere!* Spent a whole lot of time outdoors (who'da thunk I'd come 
> home with a tan?) and got a total of 2 mosquito bites one evening when my 
> gang and I were sitting out in the garden behind a pub, right at the river's 
> edge.......... It would actually be possible to solder nekkid in a place that 
> has such a sparse population of human-eating creatures!
> 
> Congrats on the new a/c, Suzanne - looks like hubby must be starting to take 
> you seriously :-)
> 
> 
> Sparks
> 	(ordinarily the mosquito's equivalent of steak tartare)
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 20:18:55 1999
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	for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:27:47 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Russian Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:21:25 +0000
Message-ID: <199907152228.WAA32237@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
Busy packing.......
Out of lurker mode, there will be a couple of responses from Across 
The Pond on one or two things.
This was one of them that caught my eye.

Over the years I have had occasions to buy East European AND Russian 
glass. , the latter of which  I have had occasions to buy..... WHEN 
available. My experience of Russian Glass is that it is a very good 
quality glass - easy to cut and work Very similar to French half 
antique. As regards the colours and the colour mixes; it has never 
been disappointing.... often there are colours to "die for"; old "pot 
blues - for instance-  that haven't been made in the rest of Europe 
for hundreds of years.
I still have a few 1/4 sheets left of blues,  turqouise and greens 
that I bought about 2 years ago from a batch of Russian glass I 
stumbled on.  
My advice:
Go get samples, do go and see, try and get a few of you together to 
buy together - if at all possible. It's beautiful glass - of what I 
know of it....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK




> Don't know if any of you are interested, and I hope I'm not going to get 
> flamed for this, but I thought it worth the effort to pass it on... I found 
> a post on the ArtGlass World board and sent an inquiry.  A fellow had 
> surplus glass for sale for $1 per sheet (which sounded great).  A follow-up 
> email brought back this reply:
> 
> Hello Dawn,
> I'm glad to hear from you.
> This glass is cathedral and made in Russia by old glass-factory.
> They make colored glass more than 200 years.
> So, offered glass is good quality.
> It is a surplus of big unfinished project in Moscow.
> Approx. volume is half of 20' container or more.
> Sheet size - 25cm x 25cm (9.8" x 9.8")
> Thickness - 3mm (1/8")
> I don't know exact quantity of sheets
> because anybody re-counted it for a long time.
> I re-counted red glass only. There is approx. 14,000 sheets of red.
> I think cost of shipping will be acceptable
> and total cost of glass will remain very profitable.
> I can forward glass from Tallinn Estonia.
> Cost of shipping 20' cont. from Tallinn to Montreal is approx. US$ 2,200
> What is your port of delivery?
> How many glass do you need?
> 
> I think to hold glass in hands is more better than to talk about it.
> I can send you a glass set and offer you three delivery ways:
> 
> 1. by post (cost - US$ 10, delivery time - a. 30-40 days)
> 2. by air mail (US$ 20, a. 20-25 days)
> 3. by express mail (US$ 65, 5-7days)
> 
> You pay only for delivery. Glass samples will be free for you.
> If you agree please inform me your address and delivery way.
> I will answer to any your questions with pleasure.
> 
> Best regards,
> Valery
> 
> I don't have the finances to pull this one off though.  *Sigh* The glass 
> deal of a lifetime, and here I sit.
> 
> So if anyone is interested, email me and I'll give you the add'y.  Or maybe 
> several of us could pool and split the shipment?  Hmm... interesting.
> 
> Dawn
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 20:30:57 1999
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	for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:19:47 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: fastlane.net!byronw
From: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass samples
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:23:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.132346.0>
Precedence: bulk

I use them all the time... I keep one box of assorted samples that I keep in
stock to show customers and also look through them when trying to find the
right color for a particular job....

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles R. Clark <dwood@sky.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 10:07 AM
Subject: glass samples


>Trying for a response to yet another question.
>
>I've notice glass sample packs for sale. Do ANY of you find these to be
>of use. That is, with the multicolored types of glass?
>Gosh....wonder if more than one will respond to this one? :-)
>C.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 20:36:47 1999
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Mosfunland@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:58:49 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul19.85849.0>
References: <<1999Jul14.145254.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

actually in the "if you cant beat em join em" category...there is a lot
of "street art" in places like NY, Boston, LA that is based on the
graffiti and turned into huge murals. Some of it looks pretty nice:) Its
not the graffiti..its what it stands for..the violence and lack of value
for other people thats so wrong, the gang equivalent of dogs marking
their territory...not the fact that someone took a can of spray paint
and did some unauthorized printing. 


Liz
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 20:50:03 1999
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X-Path: pacbell.net!meryder
From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Any recommendations on new cutter?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:51:11 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.85111.0>
References: <<1999Jul12.2172.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all..

To-Yo, To-Yo, it's off to cut we go....  (musical accompaniment needed)
Seriously,  I use two Toyo cutters....the pistol grip, and the pencil style.
Both have
oil reservoirs, and with a 60-40 mix of 3-in-1 to cutting oil they don't leak.
I change back and forth as my hand and arm get tired during long cutting
sessions.

Best regards,
Cheryl Ryder

Bud Britt wrote:

> Hello PJ,
>
> I found a little ditty at the glass store that is wonderful for my wrist, it
> is a short self-oiling barrel, (forgot the name, Jacobson or something
> cutter, it is a Toyo cutter, I think)with a saddle that fits in the area
> between your index finger and thumb, the pressure that you used to apply
> with your index finger and thumb is now coming from the hand (upper palm)
> itself, infact from the fleshy part. So is much easier on the wrist, and
> hand. Great for patterns, can take them curves with ease. Took a little to
> get used to, only now I rarely use the normal barrel type.
>
> For another friend on the lists,,,
>
> Oh, forgot, ;-), it's one of them newfangled tools, ain't been out for very
> long, so might not be approved. ;-)
>
> Glad to see you posting, my glass friend, ;-), and it do not take two to
> agree to be friends, only one, who is willing to be friends ;-),,,
>
> Sincerely,
> Bud Britt
>
> computerministry@unitytustin.org
>
> Intrastar Glass List Website
> http://glass.intrastar.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: PJ Jellison <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
> To: Stained Glass <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 06:30 AM
> Subject: Any recommendations on new cutter?
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Anybody have a recommendation on cutters?  I've been using one
> > of the "old-fashioned disposable" metal ones (my retailer's
> > description),
> > and I like it, but he is suggesting I might have an easier time with one
> > that delivers oil as you cut, either the pistol-grip or straight
> > kind; he likes both.  Is there a difference in ease of handling between
> > the two?  My wrist is kind of weak (the result of an encounter with
> > a wildcat many  years ago).  Do you folks tend to use one type, or do
> > you have a "library" of cutters that you use for different types of glass?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > PJ Jellison
> > (jellison@ceps.nasm.edu)
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 20:50:10 1999
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From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Sidelights to Foil or lead?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:38:49 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.93849.0>
Precedence: bulk

Foil versus lead has been a hot topic in the past.  There should be a lot on
the controversy in the archives.

In short, I feel foil works great for panels.  Other people feel the greater
stiffness will cause cracking.  I personally feel the lesser ability to flex
of foil is better handled by proper framing techniques.

I will admit modern foil techniques do not have the years of history behind
them to prove it either way.  So far no one I have heard has done
accelerated weather testing on fully assembled panels.  So I do not have 50
or a hundred years of data to prove my point.

I have tested new foil panels for weather resistance and leakage and have
found them to be as good as cemented lead came work.  My tests assume
quality materials and construction of both foil and lead methods.  One of
the foil tape companies did accelerated weather testing on the glues used in
their foil tapes which were sufficient to satisfy me the foil technique
would hold leakage resistance for years to come.  However, I have still not
seen test on full panels nor from an independent objective source to prove
the point.

I have also tested two small panels done in lead versus foil.  In very
simple (and I will admit unscientific) stress testing by pushing on the
center of the panels, the glass in the foil panel cracked only slightly
before the lead panel.

I think I proved fairly well in a prior discussion by going through the
mathematics of the various coefficients of expansion involved that the
temperature expansion / contraction of glass in combination with either foil
or lead should not make any difference between the two techniques.  Within
normal temperature ranges soldered foil versus lead are so close that here
should be no difference.

My basic point in all of these discussion is that it is much more important
to pay attention to proper hanging, support, and framing techniques than
whether the panel is done in foil or lead.  If the framing and support does
not allow for shifting, flexing, expansion., etc. then the added flexibility
of lead will not help at all.  The window will break no matter what.  If the
panel is properly held then the slightly increased stiffness of foil will be
easily handled and the panel should not break.


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 21:01:31 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: David Cogen <cogen@ll.mit.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:15:45 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul19.91545.0>
References: <<199907141630.MAA24650@ll.mit.edu>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

David Cogen wrote:
> 
> Hey, I like grafitti too!
> 
> At least those kids are doing something about all those ugly bare concrete
> walls.
> 
> It's disgusting the way the city rushes out to obliterate every trace of
> individual expression and decoration.
> 
> 

David I agree 100%....see my other post on the subject about "city
art"...I have NO problem with people wanting to get a little "creative"
on buildings and what have you. Now the stuff which is a way for gangs
to leave little "calling cards" for each other...now thats another
matter altogether...but thats not because one person is making a
judgement about how "ugly" something is just because it sullies their
cultured view, its becasue of what the gangs are doing with their
markings and messages to each other..but running around painting over
gang graffiti is just another liberal feel good solution that makes them
feel they are really doing something about the problem of alienated
youth. Its a lot easier to paint over some gang graffiti and tut tut
about how bad the youth are today than to get out there and try and help
those kids.  Personally I dont mind graffiti at all....what I do mind is
seeing beer cans all over the place and beautiful land gutted because of
all the greedy people who just cant make do with whats here and have to
build, build and build some more. I think a bulldozer is a lot more ugly
than a spray can.  We get a lot of it where I live...all the
Californians have raped their state so now they come up to Idaho and
Montana so they can destroy this area too....now THATS ugly...not some
spray paint on a building or a bridge. 

Liz
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From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>, "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: weird tools
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 99 05:29:42 
Message-ID: <199907152336.RAA13836@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

oh my! Nope don't remember that.. I've been doing glass only since 1980, seriously 
since 83... and started with linesman's pliers and a carborundum stone (which I still 
have.. lost the pliers tho!)

Candy

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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Layering glass
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:08:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.16844.0>
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I have done layering in small bits here and there, but tried something
more ambitious, layering wavy textured cathedral over pale blue to get
more of feel of water.  Let me tell you, everything that could go wrong
did!  (Except it WILL be beautiful when I finally finish!)  Of course, I
should have been forwarned, since it was a day that I swear even the
foil refused to tin!

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 21:18:05 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Sidelights to Foil or lead?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:56:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.155646.0>
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Message text written by "K See"
>I called a member of our guild who has done many windows. She said it
should
be lead because with copper foil the panel may/could crack/break from the=

vibration of the door closing.<

I only do sidelights in copper-foil.  Never had a problem.
But...you might want to check out this about sidelights.  The
dimensions you mentioned 6.5" x 36" make me believe they
may be part of a standard manufacturer's (Stanley Doors) door kit.
This is the easiest type of sidelights to do!  Go to the house.
Check on the inside of the existing sidelights.  By inside I mean
you're standing in the hallway looking outside through the sidelights.
Now, check to see if there are screws holding the plastic
sidelight frames together.  You see, Stanley Doors makes these
sidelights so that screws on the inside go right through the frame and
hold the outside frame together, with the insullated glass forming
the "meat" of the sandwitch.  You might have to dig through putty
to find the screws.  If the frame looks plastic rather than wood,
it's a real good chance you're dealing with a door kit.

If you are, they are a standard size!  The half-size door kit from
Stanley features glass of 8" x 36", but only 6.5" show due to the
frame hiding some of the glass.  But you can unscrew the frame,
take the inside frame with you for your template, make the stained
glass panel to fit inside the frame (8x36), take it back to the house,
and simply place the stained glass panel up against the existing
insullated glass, screw the frame back together, and voila - you've
installed it!  No guesswork.  No measuring and remeasuring.  No
problems trying to figure out a way to install the thing.

And if your customer doesn't like the frames with the cross pieces,
you can special order replacement sidelight kits without the cross pieces=

from you local Stanley Door distributor.  I do this all the time.

The Stanley Door full-sized sidelight kit features standard glass
sizes of 7" x 64".  And if you want to make sure the stained glass
panels will stay put, glue them into the frame with a little good old
GE Silicon clear.

Christie Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: fremont glasss
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:21:27 -0400
Message-ID: <199907160022.UAA14706@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

7/15/99 6:10 PM Howard weaver51@teleport.com

>Because Freemont is primarily clear it is not a glass I can/would use for
>lamps.
>I do not remember if it by the pound or square foot.

I buy it by the square foot. And I dole it out to myself very, very 
stingily. 

suzanne albright
suzy@comcat.com

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 21:27:43 1999
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: bungi fashion
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:44:49 -0400
Message-ID: <199907160045.UAA17485@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Sparks said about Elisabeth:


>> Awwwwwwww, c'mon. You're not *that* scary!
Of course this leads one to believe you are at least a *little bit* 
scary. Ooooooh. 

Patrick, I believe you need to borrow Charles' asbestos suit to put over 
your tutu. Just in case.




suzanne albright
suzy@comcat.com

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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 21:37:42 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "K See" <kseeglass@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Sidelights to Foil or lead?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:59:37 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.165937.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "K See"
>
I called a member of our guild who has done many windows. She said it
should
be lead because with copper foil the panel may/could crack/break from the=

vibration of the door closing.

What do you think?<

Michael's response to that one is:

"If there's THAT much vibration in your
sidelights from closing the door, they need
to re-build the house!"

If it was a doorlight, it might be another issue,
though I don't think the differences between
copper foil and lead are that substantial in this
scenario.  Sidelight or doorlight, I think you can =

comfortably offer copper foil as readily as lead
work and we're presuming either would be
installed inside and next to regular exterior
glazing so weather would not be an issue.
Correct?

Best regards,

Dani Greer
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: fremont glasss
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:40:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.174056.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Howard"
>Because Freemont is primarily clear it is not a glass I can/would use fo=
r
lamps.
I do not remember if it by the pound or square foot.<

We buy it by the square foot and I would check
with Warner-Crivellaro or Meredith to see if they
stock it.  Fremont is a good glass to use if you
work with cathedrals.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 21:55:07 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Russian Glass
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:40:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.174053.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Toby"
>
Over the years I have had occasions to buy East European AND Russian =

glass. , the latter of which  I have had occasions to buy..... WHEN =

available. My experience of Russian Glass is that it is a very good =

quality glass - easy to cut and work Very similar to French half =

antique. As regards the colours and the colour mixes; it has never =

been disappointing.... often there are colours to "die for"; old "pot =

blues - for instance-  that haven't been made in the rest of Europe =

for hundreds of years.<

I wonder if W-C or Meredith picked up on this post?  =

Maybe someone should forward to them direct.... is
always nice to have more selection of good reds....

Best,

Dani Greer
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X-Path: pacbell.net!meryder
From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: ATFSI@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Fwd: warning about another possible virus
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:42:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.11422.0>
References: <<1999Jul14.171151.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all...our IT team where I work checked this out with both McAfee
and Symantec (Norton Virus Detector).

"Wobble" is a hoax.

But, one should always have one's virus detector updated and on line, just in
case.

Best regards,
Cheryl Ryder

ATFSI@aol.com wrote:

>
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: warning about another possible virus
> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:04:56 -0400
> From: pbradshaw@vicr.com
> To: atfsi@aol.com, mbradsy@aol.com
>
>
>
> ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
> Subject: RE: warning about another possible virus
> Author:  Daryl Holeva <DHoleva@genetics.com> at Internet
> Date:    7/14/99 11:48 AM
>
> RE: warning about another possible virus
>
>
>      another virus warning.  To check validity, go to the AOL home page,
>      they have lists of new viruses.
>
>
>      > >  A new virus is around named WOBBLER. > >
>      > >       So just in case you do no know about it yet, please read
>      > > what it says below:
>      > >      It will arrive on an e-mail titled "CALIFORNIA".
>      > >    IBM and AOL have announced that it is VERY powerful
>      > > (more so than the Melissa virus) and has no remedy.
>      > >
>      > >    It will EAT all your information on the hard drive and
>      > > also destroys Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer.
>      > >     DO NOT open anything with this title and please pass
>      > > this  message on to all your contacts and anyone who uses your
>      e-mail
>      > >  facility.
>      > >
>      > >      Not many people seem to know about this yet, so
>      > > propagate it as fast and as possible!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                                !
>
>
>
>
>
>



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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: fremont glasss
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:01:03 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.1813.0>
References: <<1999Jul15.8102.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Howard wrote:
> 
> Because Freemont is primarily clear it is not a glass I can/would use for
> lamps.
> I do not remember if it by the pound or square foot.
> It is to the advantage of the seller to charge by the pound as you get to
> pay for the rolled edge, too.
> enjoy, H
> weaver51@teleport.com
> Elaine and Howard
> best lamps on the "net":
> http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
> 
> ----

though the rolled edge isn't all that bad either. it's good for natural
box lids... and stuff.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 22:38:20 1999
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X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@island.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: fremont glasss
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:58:25 -0700
Message-ID: <199907160058.RAA26565@mimas.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

>I'm just a lowly hobbyist. I've asked my local retailer for Fremont and
>they've never heard of it. Is there any way I can buy some, from Fremont or
>anyone else, being just a one-person little show? Anyone know?
>
>Shari

Northwest ARt Glass in Seattle, Washington carries Fremont Art Glass.  Their
number is 1-800-888-9444 (toll free in US and Canada)...by the way you can
register for Elisabeth's workshop there at the same time!

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
http://come.to/The_E-Tour

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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: "New" Glass I Found
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:33:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.183330.0>
Precedence: bulk

Very funny! From the posts, I gathered it was so rare and hard to find, I
assumed it would not be available locally.
FYI... aside from answering mails, I don't spend much time at my computer.
I'm very busy with my hair salon, my art business and my two teenage boys.
Thanks .,.. Mary





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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 22:51:22 1999
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From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>, <Zeusluvr@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: "New" Glass I Found
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:02:57 -0400
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References: <<00f501bece74$e4742e20$ed358118@computer>>
Precedence: bulk

Hey, I've got a great idea- why not actually leave your computer and go
visit some stained glass stores and see if you can find some Fremont and
look at it in person...

> Does anyone know where online I could view this glass? Sounds wonderful!!
> mary
> >
>
>
>

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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash
From: "ktsplash" <ktsplash@mpx.com.au>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Fw: Any recommendations on new cutter?
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:58:44 +1000
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.225844.0>
Organization: Kariva Splash
Precedence: bulk

> Hi PJ,
> I'm not sure if this is the same cutter that Bud's talking about, but I'm
> looking at the Winter 1998-99 edition of Glass Patterns Quarterly and
> there's an ad for something called a KUMFORT KUTTER, It looks almost like
a
> wooden door knob. the ad says "Handle designed for weak or Arthritic hands
> **fits Toyo and Inland Cutter heads only, cutter head not included with
> handle."
> Unfortunately the ad has no contact address! It's listed under an ad for
> "Beautiful Glass - look for Beautiful glass with Kitty Kelley on your
local
> PBS station"
> Hope this helps!
> Katie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bud Britt <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
> To: PJ Jellison <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 1999 2:17
> Subject: Re: Any recommendations on new cutter?
>
>
> > Hello PJ,
> >
> > I found a little ditty at the glass store that is wonderful for my
wrist,
> it
> > is a short self-oiling barrel, (forgot the name, Jacobson or something
> > cutter, it is a Toyo cutter, I think)with a saddle that fits in the area
> > between your index finger and thumb, the pressure that you used to apply
> > with your index finger and thumb is now coming from the hand (upper
palm)
> > itself, infact from the fleshy part. So is much easier on the wrist, and
> > hand. Great for patterns, can take them curves with ease. Took a little
to
> > get used to, only now I rarely use the normal barrel type.
> >
> > For another friend on the lists,,,
> >
> > Oh, forgot, ;-), it's one of them newfangled tools, ain't been out for
> very
> > long, so might not be approved. ;-)
> >
> > Glad to see you posting, my glass friend, ;-), and it do not take two to
> > agree to be friends, only one, who is willing to be friends ;-),,,
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Bud Britt
> >
> > computerministry@unitytustin.org
> >
> > Intrastar Glass List Website
> > http://glass.intrastar.net
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: PJ Jellison <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
> > To: Stained Glass <glass@bungi.com>
> > Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 06:30 AM
> > Subject: Any recommendations on new cutter?
> >
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Anybody have a recommendation on cutters?  I've been using one
> > > of the "old-fashioned disposable" metal ones (my retailer's
> > > description),
> > > and I like it, but he is suggesting I might have an easier time with
one
> > > that delivers oil as you cut, either the pistol-grip or straight
> > > kind; he likes both.  Is there a difference in ease of handling
between
> > > the two?  My wrist is kind of weak (the result of an encounter with
> > > a wildcat many  years ago).  Do you folks tend to use one type, or do
> > > you have a "library" of cutters that you use for different types of
> glass?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > PJ Jellison
> > > (jellison@ceps.nasm.edu)
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
>


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From owner-glass Thu Jul 15 23:07:34 1999
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	for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:25:18 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: crcwnet.com!dandl
From: "Dave & Lynn Loda" <dandl@crcwnet.com>
To: <meryder@pacbell.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Any recommendations on new cutter?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:27:56 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.142756.0>
References: <<1999Jul15.85111.0>>
Organization: Art Glass of Wenatchee
Precedence: bulk

Bud;

It called a Thomas Grip Cutter.

Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: <meryder@pacbell.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Any recommendations on new cutter?


> Hi all..
>
> To-Yo, To-Yo, it's off to cut we go....  (musical accompaniment needed)
> Seriously,  I use two Toyo cutters....the pistol grip, and the pencil
style.
> Both have
> oil reservoirs, and with a 60-40 mix of 3-in-1 to cutting oil they don't
leak.
> I change back and forth as my hand and arm get tired during long cutting
> sessions.
>
> Best regards,
> Cheryl Ryder
>
> Bud Britt wrote:
>
> > Hello PJ,
> >
> > I found a little ditty at the glass store that is wonderful for my
wrist, it
> > is a short self-oiling barrel, (forgot the name, Jacobson or something
> > cutter, it is a Toyo cutter, I think)with a saddle that fits in the area
> > between your index finger and thumb, the pressure that you used to apply
> > with your index finger and thumb is now coming from the hand (upper
palm)
> > itself, infact from the fleshy part. So is much easier on the wrist, and
> > hand. Great for patterns, can take them curves with ease. Took a little
to
> > get used to, only now I rarely use the normal barrel type.
> >
> > For another friend on the lists,,,
> >
> > Oh, forgot, ;-), it's one of them newfangled tools, ain't been out for
very
> > long, so might not be approved. ;-)
> >
> > Glad to see you posting, my glass friend, ;-), and it do not take two to
> > agree to be friends, only one, who is willing to be friends ;-),,,
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Bud Britt
> >
> > computerministry@unitytustin.org
> >
> > Intrastar Glass List Website
> > http://glass.intrastar.net
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: PJ Jellison <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
> > To: Stained Glass <glass@bungi.com>
> > Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 06:30 AM
> > Subject: Any recommendations on new cutter?
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Anybody have a recommendation on cutters?  I've been using one
> > > of the "old-fashioned disposable" metal ones (my retailer's
> > > description),
> > > and I like it, but he is suggesting I might have an easier time with
one
> > > that delivers oil as you cut, either the pistol-grip or straight
> > > kind; he likes both.  Is there a difference in ease of handling
between
> > > the two?  My wrist is kind of weak (the result of an encounter with
> > > a wildcat many  years ago).  Do you folks tend to use one type, or do
> > > you have a "library" of cutters that you use for different types of
glass?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > PJ Jellison
> > > (jellison@ceps.nasm.edu)
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 00:44:08 1999
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 02:33:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.213336.0>
References: <<1999Jul19.91545.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> > At least those kids are doing something about all those ugly bare >>concrete walls.

Will you feel the same when it is *your* property they decide needs to
become their art?  What if they decide the side of your car is just too
plain, your house?  Your kids' bike?

T Suz

-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 01:43:51 1999
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:24:39 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.102439.0>
Precedence: bulk


>actually in the "if you cant beat em join em" category...there is a lot
>of "street art" in places like NY, Boston, LA that is based on the
>graffiti and turned into huge murals. Some of it looks pretty nice:) Its

The authorities here in UK have done something similar in that they actively
encourage graphity style murals on large building walls in certain areas
where it
has been a problem before.Some of them are 30 ft by 20 ft in size and are
excellent
works of art.It is combined with an effort to stop idiot grafity which is
more life threatening to the kids that do it.This is where they climb into
difficult places like bridges on motorways(freeways) or railway tracks over
racing traffic or electric trains.
In some cases close to high volatage power lines over rail tracks to
complete a dare.

Brandon Uk
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 03:14:12 1999
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X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50
From: Rick <rwl50@yahoo.com>
To: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: fremont glasss
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 06:08:54 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.2854.0>
Precedence: bulk


> > It is to the advantage of the seller to charge by
> the pound as you get to
> > pay for the rolled edge, too.

Just make sure their thumb isn't on the scale...sort
a' like payin for the bone in a cut of meat..

Rick






===
http://home.fuse.net/crafts

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 04:44:14 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: stainedglasslamps@csinet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Those fabulous 3-D lamps, was Gatewayed mail message
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 07:37:21 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.113721.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 7/15/99 6:23:58 PM, stainedglasslamps@csinet.net writes:

>I now have come out with an instructional book for sale but I don't know
>how to get ahold of these great folks, can you help me out?
>
>Will wait to hear from you.   Thank You!
>
>Arkie  Pisello  Sr.

If you've got the book advertised on your web site with a mailing address and 
ordering instructions, a notice pointing there (like the one you just posted 
to the list) will do just fine. You might also want to check with the 
Intrastar glass list owners and make sure it's OK to post a notice there too.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on a copy of your book, and plan to 
do so as soon as possible. My enquiring mind wants to know how in the heck 
you do that!


Sparks
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 05:14:25 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: mfig@netcom.ca, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: New" Glass I Found ng.......actually vg (virtual glass)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 07:42:21 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.114221.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 7/16/99 1:52:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mfig@netcom.ca 
writes:

> Hey, I've got a great idea- why not actually leave your computer and go
>  visit some stained glass stores and see if you can find some Fremont and
>  look at it in person...
>  
Ha ha ha.......this makes the assumption there is something beyond these four 
walls.  Weren't you aware some of us may only be working in "virtual glass"?? 
  You have just opened up a whole new world for me, I may need to take the 
phrase "cyber glass artist" off my resume!!!  <grin>  

IA      
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 05:26:49 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: How scary *is* Elisabeth, really? was Re: bungi fashion
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 07:51:37 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.115137.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 7/15/99 8:14:50 PM, toby@northlights.co.uk writes:

>Hey! ....
>Are you SURE about that??!!
>That's not quite the image I'd like to get across.
>You know....!..... 
>The Viking with horns on!
>Devouring little beaurocratic little chaps  for breakfast;
>prancing about in my garden at midnight with solder blobs on my tummy 
>button.
>You are SPOILING my image!!!

Well......... of course, I haven't seen you nekkid - that might be whole 
'nother kettle of Lutefisk! =8-O

And I repeat (lest you lose your Valkyrie license):

Elisabeth under full steam is *not* someone I'd want to be on the bad side of!

There, is that better?


Sparks
	who, truth be told, has also been known occasionally to
	sprout horns and sling death rays at petty bureaucrats
	who hacked me off....... doesn't happen often, and I have to
	be pretty damn PO'ed, but........... !
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 06:15:03 1999
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: NG bug repellant and air-conditioners, was Re: bungi fashion
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:44:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.44434.0>
Precedence: bulk

Petal????!!!!

I think Sparks left out a few things.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com


		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk]
		Sent:	Thursday, July 15, 1999 7:21 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: NG bug repellant and air-conditioners,
was Re: bungi fashion

		Hey Petal,
		I am glad you wern't attacked by the flying critters.
		What you didn't see along Old Father Thames as we were
having our 
		lunch was the back end of a rat - as large as a Jack Russell
terrier, 
		disappearing down towards the Riverbank. . It was the
biggest rat I 
		have seen since I spent some time along the river Seine in
Paris some 
		25 years ago.
		Phew.
		Glad you made it back safe and sound.....
		Looking forward to NO car parking hassle meeting with you in
a few 
		weeks time.....
		If I had had to strangle that guy with my bare hands..... I
think you 
		know I would have done it.... If not, I think I would have
caused a 
		hell of a lot of damage to the London City Car Park
Authority Car 
		Parks Property.........   ;-> ( I had wicked schemes on that

		telephone piece that guy handed to me......)
		 .....and ENJOYED every second of it.....!!! 
		Glad you enjoyed it!!
		See ya!!

		Elisabeth 'n unfortunately absent Toby (who would have
relished a 
		West Indian steak.....)
		
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 06:32:10 1999
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From: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 05:47:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul15.224753.0>
References: <<1999Jul14.145254.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Mosfunland@aol.com wrote:

> Several years ago (many years ago), we brought a nephew out to stay with us
> in beautiful, streetwise Philadelphia.  He was brought up on a many acre
> spread in Alaska, and then lived in Washington State, near the Canadian
> border.  So out he comes to us, and we pick him up at the airport.....biggest
> thrill for him, was seeing REAL grafitti.   He had never seen any.   All the
> way home he was wowing and raving.....I had all I could do to keep my
> significant other from turning the car around and driving him back to the
> airport.  We had quite a discussion about graffitti, to say the
> least.....with side topics of urban blight, crime, watching your back ("put
> that nice watch away until we send you home").

Don't tell me ... let me guess.

"urban" graffitti in the USA is "good" because all those poor stifled souls get
to "express themselves".  Right?  These poor stifled souls have NO OTHER way to
"express themselves" because "society is against them".  Something along those
lines?

"Non-urban" graffitti, or "rural" graffitti, in the USA, such as writing your
g/f's name on the local water tower, or putting your gang's name all over the
local HS, stadium, overpasses, etc is "bad" because all those dumb ignorant hicks
don't know any better.  Right?

I lived in several places in Europe.  Graffitti is EVERYWHERE now in Europe.  Do
you think graffitti on the Louvre is cool too?  How about graffitti on the walls
surrounding the Musee Rodin?  Is that cool too?  [I could make a very long list
here of beautiful buildings routinely covered with graffitti.]

Graffitti, no matter what its purpose, is just defacement by ignorant
knuckleheads too stupid, or too little motivated, or both, to figure out how to
do something worthwhile.  And don't give me that "they're too poor" bit ....
spray paint DOES cost money ... and if they stole it (which is also NOT COOL) ...
then why couldn't they use it for some other artistic purpose?

No.  Graffitti is not cool.  And no amount of bullshit is going to make it so.

Later ........... Bob




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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 06:43:21 1999
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X-Path: telebot.com!debbiesgarden
From: DebbieT <debbiesgarden@telebot.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Any recommendations on new cutter
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:43:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.44339.0>
Precedence: bulk

The cutter I believe Bud is talking about is called the 'Thomas Grip'
cutter by Toyo. I've used it for 6 years. I have severe Carpal Tunnel
syndrome and since I started using it, I have felt NO pain.
Debbie T


> > I found a little ditty at the glass store that is wonderful for my
wrist,
> it
> > is a short self-oiling barrel, (forgot the name, Jacobson or
something
> > cutter, it is a Toyo cutter, I think)with a saddle that fits in the
area
> > between your index finger and thumb, the pressure that you used to
apply
> > with your index finger and thumb is now coming from the hand (upper
palm)
> > itself, infact from the fleshy part. So is much easier on the wrist,
and
> > hand. Great for patterns, can take them curves with ease

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 06:44:03 1999
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:40:58 EDT
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In a message dated 7/15/99 11:38:42 PM, glshorse@ior.com writes:

>actually in the "if you cant beat em join em" category...there is a lot
>of "street art" in places like NY, Boston, LA that is based on the
>graffiti and turned into huge murals. Some of it looks pretty nice:) [...]

I like graffiti, if it's well done and not graphically violent or explicitly 
sexual (and unfortunately, the two go together far too often, UGH!). I've 
often thought that instead of spending millions of dollars to clean it off 
the subway cars in NYC, the city should assign a car to every graffiti'er and 
allow them to give it their best shot. Some of those guys (and grrls) can 
turn their own names into works of art!

Graffiti (like any other "folk art") can be an expression of life in the face 
of a crappy world, of trying to bring some color and vitality into the dead 
concrete-box city - that's when it becomes beautiful, and unfortunately it 
all gets lumped together into this morass of "vandalism" in the mind of the 
general public.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 06:57:19 1999
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From: "Pat Jellison" <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
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Subject: Re: Sidelights to Foil or lead?
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:24:39 -0400
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Ahh!  Wow! I think you just answered something this newbie
has been wrestling with.  I have a small window in my
front door  (is THAT what a doorlight is?!!) that I've 
been longing to fill with stained glass but didn't know
how to remove the plain glass and install the SG without
destroying the door.  So, it would be OK to place the SG 
panel to the inside of the plain glass and refit the molding?

It's just a little diamond-shaped thing, about 7"x9".

Also -- way to go K See!!!

Cheers,
PJ Jellison



----------
>From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>


>frame hiding some of the glass.  But you can unscrew the frame,
>take the inside frame with you for your template, make the stained
>glass panel to fit inside the frame (8x36), take it back to the house,
>and simply place the stained glass panel up against the existing
>insullated glass, screw the frame back together, and voila - you've
>installed it!  No guesswork.  No measuring and remeasuring.  No
>problems trying to figure out a way to install the thing.
>
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 07:08:01 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
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Subject: Re: "New" Glass I Found
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:35:35 EDT
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In a message dated 7/16/99 1:52:23 AM, mfig@netcom.ca writes:

>Hey, I've got a great idea- why not actually leave your computer and go
>visit some stained glass stores and see if you can find some Fremont and
>look at it in person...

Tetchy, tetchy...... :-)

A bit of a refresher on the context here:

"Some" stained glass stores....... Hmmmmm............ Most of us don't have 
more than one half-decent stained glass retailer within a couple of hours' 
drive (Hobby Lobby doesn't count, from what I've heard), and many of us don't 
even have *one* and have to depend on mail-order and the advice of our bungi 
budz to track down anything more out-of-the-ordinary than Spectrum and 
Armstrong.

So play nice, or go to your room until you're ready to play nice....... or 
we'll tell momma Glenna on you and she'll take away your bungi license.......

Now, lemme see....... Charles, can I borrow that asbestos suit? Elisabeth, 
how 'bout loaning me that neat-o helmet with the horns - oh, and the 
thunder-hammer too..... Hey Toby! Wanna go geek-hunting?


Sparks
	heading for the bomb shelter
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 07:16:53 1999
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From: "Pat Jellison" <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
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Subject: Re: Any recommendations on new cutter?
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:34:33 -0400
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Hiya All,

I want to thank you all for your many suggestions on
new cutters.  I'm convinced -- and being the bold,
indecisive type, I'm going to buy the Thomas Grip 
one now and ask for a pistol grip one for 
the next birthday so I can have both.  You are all SO COOL!

I also apologize for not thanking you all sooner.  It's 
been a traumatic week; our Director where I work (a
museum) was killed in an ultralight airplane crash 
and we've all just been in a daze and trying to cope 
with the loss, with the public, etc.

But I really appreciate how many of you answered my
question!  Reading Bungi has provided the lighter
side of an otherwise unremittingly awful week.

Cheers,
PJ Jellison 
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 07:55:40 1999
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Subject: Petal, was NG bug repellant and air-conditioners.......
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:21:20 EDT
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In a message dated 7/16/99 9:16:06 AM, vmodiano@ctronsoft.com writes:

>Petal????!!!!
>
>I think Sparks left out a few things.

Wouldn't you like to know????????? We'll tell you the whole story as soon as 
we get done making it up. Dorothy, can we borrow Emeraldine & Pierre & 
friends for an hour or two? Might as well get the whole gang in on the 
orgy......


Sparks
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 08:21:50 1999
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From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:07:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.6715.0>
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A college I went to took that approach to walls around a construction site.
They had over 1000 feet of plywood fence eight feet high. It was impossible
to stop, or even keep up with, the graffiti. 
They ended up having a contest. They whitewashed the whole thing and
assigned sections  8' x 8' and up, to each entry. The construction company
awarded $500 dollars in prize money to the top 3 winners. They also saved a
lot of time and money, solved the graffiti problem and made friends with the
students. 

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctonsoft.com

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com]
		Sent:	Friday, July 16, 1999 8:41 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: Nonglass: grafitti


		I've often thought that instead of spending millions of
dollars to clean it off 
		the subway cars in NYC, the city should assign a car to
every graffiti'er and 
		allow them to give it their best shot. Some of those guys
(and grrls) can 
		turn their own names into works of art!


		Sparks
		----
		
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 08:31:29 1999
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From: "Charles R. Clark" <dwood@sky.net>
To: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:35:46 -0500
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> No.  Graffitti is not cool.  And no amount of bullshit is going to make it so.
> 
> Later ........... Bob
>

Very well said!
David
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 09:59:52 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
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Subject: Re: "New" Glass I Found
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:48:21 -0500
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> Tetchy, tetchy...... :-)
> 

YEAAAAAAA. Sparks is back!!!! :o)

T Suz
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 10:23:18 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:21:55 EDT
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In a message dated 7/16/99 9:33:14 AM, ezcomezgo@earthlink.net writes:

>Don't tell me ... let me guess.
>
>"urban" graffitti in the USA is "good" because all those poor stifled souls 
get
>to "express themselves".  Right?  These poor stifled souls have NO OTHER way 
to
>"express themselves" because "society is against them".  Something along
>those lines? [...]

Hardly (she said, recognizing the atypically Pollyanna-ish tone of my earlier 
remarks and being pretty durned surprised - must have been too early in the 
morning for me to think straight :-\ ).

Everything has its place. I forget who it was that said something to the 
effect that a sausage on your dinner plate is a good thing, but the same 
sausage stuck to the nose of your dining companion is definitely not!

To take a real-life example, a Basquiat piece *inside* the MOMA is "good," 
while Basquiat (before he was famous) taking the spray paint to the outside 
of the MOMA would not be (and to further complicate matters, what if, after 
he became a celebrity, he'd been specifically commissioned to do so, perhaps 
as "performance art"...... with NEA funding, maybe? <gd&r>)

Something else I may get a lot of flak for, but I'm going to bring it up 
anyway because it does factor into the rise of the graffiti phenomenon 
itself..... the gleaming 
nothing-but-neutral-colors-and-clear-glass-and-carefully-manicured-lawns 
mentality (which results in the requirement of condo association approval 
before you can go ahead with that sidelight commission) is almost entirely a 
white European mindset. In many non-European cultures, painting the outside 
of your house or the village wall in bold patterns and/or bright colors is a 
means of artistic expression *and* a mark of status, and at least part of the 
graffiti thing is an attempt to reclaim some of that cultural heritage.

(In fact, the "bright-colored house thang" is causing a lot of ruckus in 
parts of southern California where Central American folks are moving in and 
painting their houses bright orange, passionate purple, electric blue, 
shocking pink, etc. and the "Anglos" who already live there are screaming 
bloody murder and trying to pass laws against it.)

But once again: There's a place for everything. It's not the self-expression 
itself that's the problem, it's *where* and *how* that self-expression takes 
shape. On your own house, OK. On someone else's house, or on the new stadium, 
or on the Louvre, or on Stonehenge, not OK. On that ugly blank wall next to 
the new playground, OK if the neighborhood council says OK, and let's all 
pitch in and help.

Pride in your heritage or your neighborhood or your local heroes, OK. 
Hatemongering against other people or groups, definitely not. Explicit sex, 
violence, or combinations of the two (which is what you get far too often), 
not OK (if you *really* want a picture of a Caligula-style orgy, don't paint 
it on the wall, get it tattooed on your butt where no one will get upset 
about it unless you decide to moon them). And so on and so on, and scooby 
dooby dooby.

(Of course, everything I've said here is a value judgment based on a certain 
mix of life and cultural experiences - namely, that as a kid from the wrong 
side of the tracks, I can understand some of the motivations of street 
culture, but as someone whose family moved away from that culture while I was 
fairly young, I've also got enough middle-class in me that "the part of me 
that's generally in control" doesn't condone the acting out of those 
motivations.)

A distinction also begs to be made between the entirely legitimate folk-art 
*form* of graffiti and the crude (in both the "technical merit" and 
"expressive intent" senses of the word) "pissing-on-the-wall" stuff that 
crops up everywhere. And here we get onto shaky ground again - who defines 
what is - or isn't - art, and what is - or isn't - "art that's acceptable to 
be seen in a public space"?

So the real truth (as with every real-life issue) lies somewhere between 
"graffiti is vandalism" and "graffiti is the only thing that saves da 'hood 
from looking like a prison block." The tough question is, how can all the 
talent of the rest of the potential Basquiats be recognized and channeled in 
more positive directions?


Sparks
	tucking the soap box under my arm and toddling off in search of lunch
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 10:33:13 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: RE: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:24:23 EDT
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In a message dated 7/16/99 11:22:50 AM, vmodiano@ctronsoft.com writes:

>They whitewashed the whole thing and
>assigned sections  8' x 8' and up, to each entry. The construction company
>awarded $500 dollars in prize money to the top 3 winners. They also saved
>a lot of time and money, solved the graffiti problem and made friends with
>the students. 

Now *that's* the way to do it!!!!!!!! I've seen things like that done in 
other places too, but I don't know if it was anything as formal as a contest.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 10:49:18 1999
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From: "Stained Glass Lamps" <stainedglasslamps@csinet.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:44:10 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BECF80.84F0F520
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Vic,

Thank you for your order.  I don't know how to get a hold of the IGGA ?  =
Can you put it on for us, or tell us how to do it?  The book is 29.95 =
plus3.00 shipping & handling.  I know YOU can do it too.  If you have =
any questions, or problems, when you get your book, feel free to e-mail =
us.    Good Luck!!    =20
Thanks again Vic,
Arkie  Pisello  Sr.
2425  Monroe  Street
LaPorte,  Indiana  46350
********************************************************************


------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BECF80.84F0F520
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>Hi Vic,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Thank you for your order.&nbsp; I don't know how to =
get a hold=20
of the IGGA ?&nbsp; Can you put it on for us, or tell us how to do =
it?&nbsp; The=20
book is 29.95 plus3.00 shipping &amp; handling.&nbsp; I know YOU can do =
it=20
too.&nbsp; If you have any questions, or problems, when you get your =
book, feel=20
free to e-mail us.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Good Luck!!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Thanks again Vic,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Arkie&nbsp; Pisello&nbsp; Sr.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>2425&nbsp; Monroe&nbsp; Street</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>LaPorte,&nbsp; Indiana&nbsp; 46350</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
size=3D4>****************************************************************=
****</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BECF80.84F0F520--

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 11:11:24 1999
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From: Kathy <khupp@citynet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: windows
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:45:52 -0400
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Hi All.

I just made 2 windows and have 2 left to do for the front of my house.
This is a little late in asking, but here it goes.

I chose lead, because it is able to withstand weather conditions better
than foil. They are to be built into casement windows that my hubby is
making. I think they will be stronger. (Being lead, that is.) Am I
right? He is building working shutters to open outwards, the windows
will open inwards.

The second reason is that I despise foiling. It must be the most boring
thing I've ever done. In the last 6 months, 80% of my projects have
switched to lead.

I had old cement that was very dry and would not mix. I added
turpentine, since I had some, but no linseed oil, and it thinned quite
well. Still fairly stiff, but in some cases, oozed to the other side. Is
this
ok to do? I have 2 windows left to do and new cement should be availabe
Monday. I've called every
place in my county asking for whiting, so I could mix my own, to no
avail. I even told them it is used in whitewash, to give them a
reference point. ( That's what my dictionary says.) Are my first 2
windows going to fall apart in a couple of years? Inland cement is what
I thinned with Turpentine.

Also is my pattern sound? My husband designed it. I add squares in the
center, ( they're actually diamonds, couldn't figure out how to draw
them) in the center, to give support. Here is what it looks like, but
three times repeated vertically. It is approximately 12x34. Encased in
oak, do you think it will take WV thunderstorms?  The weather usually
comes from that side of the house. Each panel is one half of the window.

If I need to start over, I'd like to do it before I build all 4 of them.
Please advise.

Thanks, Kathy
______
| \          /|
|  \       /  |
|   \_ /     |
|   /_ \     |
|  /      \   |
|/_____\ |

Well, something like that anyway.

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 11:31:48 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:18:11 -0700
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Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
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> Will you feel the same when it is *your* property they decide needs to
> become their art?  What if they decide the side of your car is just too
> plain, your house?  Your kids' bike?



I think he was referring to public property, not someones home. Lets not
be black and white in our thinking here Suzanne.
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 11:43:23 1999
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:19:55 -0700
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References: <<1999Jul16.102439.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

> The authorities here in UK have done something similar in that they actively
> encourage graphity style murals on large building walls in certain areas
> where it
> has been a problem before.Some of them are 30 ft by 20 ft in size and are
> excellent
> works of art.It is combined with an effort to stop idiot grafity which is
> more life threatening to the kids that do it.This is where they climb into
> difficult places like bridges on motorways(freeways) or railway tracks over
> racing traffic or electric trains.
> In some cases close to high volatage power lines over rail tracks to
> complete a dare.



this is a very good idea. Much preferrable I think to getteing all huffy
and judgemental which I think just feeds the "I'm gonna do something big
and bad" idea that fuels kids wanting to do stuff like this...if its
provided a place and semiaccepted in that place it loses some of its
appeal.
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 11:56:33 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:28:04 -0700
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Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

> I like graffiti, if it's well done and not graphically violent or explicitly 
> sexual (and unfortunately, the two go together far too often, UGH!). I've 
> often thought that instead of spending millions of dollars to clean it off 
> the subway cars in NYC, the city should assign a car to every graffiti'er and 
> allow them to give it their best shot. Some of those guys (and grrls) can 
> turn their own names into works of art!
> 
> Graffiti (like any other "folk art") can be an expression of life in the face 
> of a crappy world, of trying to bring some color and vitality into the dead 
> concrete-box city - that's when it becomes beautiful, and unfortunately it 
> all gets lumped together into this morass of "vandalism" in the mind of the 
> general public.
> 
> 


I agree totally Sparks...I think a lot of these people are angry and
just getting angry back by telling them how "bad" they are for not
painting Mona Lisas instead of street art makes them angrier....I think
giving them a place to express themselves defuses a lot of it.....one
mans trash is anothers art. I get the same crap about my tattoos...a few
strangers and a lot of relatives have felt it perfectly appropriate to
say to me "why would you deface the body God gave you like that?"  I
feel very sorry for people who feel they have to remain on a moral high
horse just to keep their illusion of a nice orderly society going. If
they are REALLY going to get huffy about something why dont they worry
about abused children, neglected children, poisoning our air and water
and things that really matter instead of a little scribbling on a wall?



Liz
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:58:03 -0500
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I understand what you are saying Elizabeth.  
I just think the mentality of many is that if it isnt theirs, it doesnt
matter.
Public property is still paid for by other people.  It still breaks the
rules that help us be a civilized society.
(remember ex probation officer here with a basic respect for rules)

Defacing public property...hmmmmmm...if it is ok to deface a *public*
wall, is it ok to dig up a tree in a National forest?  Or carve your
initials in it, because someone might find it attractive?
It cant be ok in one place and not in another.

Suzanne

Elizabeth Arakelian wrote:
> 
> > Will you feel the same when it is *your* property they decide needs to
> > become their art?  What if they decide the side of your car is just too
> > plain, your house?  Your kids' bike?
> 
> I think he was referring to public property, not someones home. Lets not
> be black and white in our thinking here Suzanne.

-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 12:16:12 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:35:59 -0700
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Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
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> the gleaming 
> nothing-but-neutral-colors-and-clear-glass-and-carefully-manicured-lawns 
> mentality (which results in the requirement of condo association approval 
> before you can go ahead with that sidelight commission) is almost entirely a 
> white European mindset. In many non-European cultures, painting the outside 
> of your house or the village wall in bold patterns and/or bright colors is a 
> means of artistic expression *and* a mark of status, and at least part of the 
> graffiti thing is an attempt to reclaim some of that cultural heritage.
> 



this is exactly why we moved out of our nice little neighborhood and
onto five acres.  A number of folks with too much time on their hands
and not enough to fill it decided in our old neighborhood that, among
other things, you cant have a front screen door; no above ground pools;
specs on the exact percent of your lawn that must be groundcover
landscape;

 you cannot repaint your deck even the exact same color without full
committee approval and on and on ad infinitum. It got very very old very
very fast. Can only imagine if someone had a touch of creativity....


Liz
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From: "Charles R. Clark" <dwood@sky.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:32:07 -0500
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Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
> 
> white European mindset. 

Gawd!!! When will those damned white European types quit acting out
their heritage? They must all be made to paint their houses purple!!!
We've just got to make them conform!
David
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 12:36:25 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Sidelights to Foil or lead?
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:38:29 -0400
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Message text written by "Pat Jellison"
>Ahh!  Wow! I think you just answered something this newbie
has been wrestling with.  I have a small window in my
front door  (is THAT what a doorlight is?!!) that I've =

been longing to fill with stained glass but didn't know
how to remove the plain glass and install the SG without
destroying the door.  So, it would be OK to place the SG =

panel to the inside of the plain glass and refit the molding?<

Guess that's the difference between a doorlight and a sidelight....
whether it's in the door, or on the side of the door.

To answer your question....yep, it's OK to place the SG
on the inside of the plain glass & refit the molding.  Lots
more stable too.  Looks grand.

Christie Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 12:48:43 1999
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X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee
From: "Shari Higbee" <shigbee@stmassociates.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: whiting
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:59:25 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.65925.0>
Precedence: bulk

kathy said:
<I've called every
<place in my county asking for whiting, so I could mix my own, to no
<avail. I even told them it is used in whitewash, to give them a
<reference point.


I stumbled upon whiting the other day in my locally owned hardware store in
the paint section. It was marked as something to be used in "cleanup". I
think it was with the turpentine and stuff...

Shari


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From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:15:44 -0400
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I will never conform!!!!!!

The house will be striped and that's the end of it.

Vic M.

I actually saw a striped house in the Kansas City area. 
>From what I heard the neighbors were less than thrilled.

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Charles R. Clark [mailto:dwood@sky.net]
		Sent:	Friday, July 16, 1999 2:32 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: Nonglass: grafitti



		Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
		> 
		> white European mindset. 

		Gawd!!! When will those damned white European types quit
acting out
		their heritage? They must all be made to paint their houses
purple!!!
		We've just got to make them conform!
		David
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 16:01:09 1999
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From: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
To: Bungi Glass List <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: About photographing stained glass pieces
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:27:38 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.82738.0>
Precedence: bulk


>From my websurfing, photographing the piece itself is
obviously the greatest pitfall of displaying sg works on the
web.  Its a shame too as many (if not most) of the works I
see on the web must be quite good but the photography is so
poor that its hard to tell ... not to mention that the
essence of the piece wasn't often captured.  Conversely,
I=92ve seen some stuff on the web that looked good, but I=92m
not so sure it was actually that good, just photographed
well.  So this is clearly an area in which many people
(including myself <G>) need assistance, particularly in the
form of guidelines.  I know there are good cameras
available, some will do everything but give you oral sex.
However, I think that no matter how good the camera, there
is no substitute for exact how-to knowledge.

Perhaps we could hammer out a set of general working
guidelines, and add specifics as we go along.

Everyone could chime in here with their own personal
experiences, good or bad, even if you don=92t know everything
you can add what you do know, what you tried, what worked,
what didn=92t work =85 and so on.

I'll start.  Note : I'm NOT a photographer but am reasoning
from first principles (read that to mean : I'm just guessing
<smile>) and therefore I'm completely open to suggestions.

So, reasoning from first principles it seems to me that :

1 ... Large format is better than small format.  A 35 mm
format is not as good as a 8x11 format.  The bigger the
film, the better the photo; the bigger the photo, the better
it will scan in; the better it scans in, the better the
final image presented on the web..

2 ... The camera must be mounted on a tripod.

3 ... The center of the piece should be at approximately the
same level as the camera lens.  (flat panels only, spherical
or semi-spherical lamps are another story)

4 ... Photos should be taken at night only, in order to
control the light.

5 ... Quartz or halogen lights should be used for
backlighting as they approximate natural sunlight better
than other artificial lighting types (ca va dire tungsten
filaments).

6 =85 Umbrella style reflectors should be used.

7 ... Backlighting is a must.  Depending on the piece, the
lights/reflectors should be off to the side and not heading
directly in the direction of the camera.

8 ... The piece should be surrounded by black material
(sheets or paper).

9 ... The piece should completely fill up the camera view,
or as close as possible.


Regards to all =85=85=85=85 Bob





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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 16:24:05 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Kathy <khupp@citynet.net>
Subject: Re: windows
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 23:30:51 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul17.03051.0>
References: <<1999Jul15.184552.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Kathy,
        lots of questions here.
In message <1999Jul15.184552.0@?>, Kathy <khupp@citynet.net> writes
>Hi All.
>
>I just made 2 windows a
.cut....
>
>I chose lead, 
..cut.....
Welcome to the joys of lead light work.  I agree that foiling is just
the most boring thing ever!
>
>I had old cement that was very dry and would not mix. I added
>turpentine, since I had some, but no linseed oil, and it thinned quite
>well. Still fairly stiff, but in some cases, oozed to the other side. Is
>this
>ok to do? 
As Bob D has explained some time ago, it is the linseed oil which acts
as a polymer in the cement, so forming the weather tight seal.  I don't
think you have done anything very bad.  But in future I would have a
supply of boiled linseed oil in stock to deal with the hardening cement.
You can also use normal linseed oil putty and add black poster paint or
black acrylic  paint to blacken it and a little turpentine to thin it,
rather than trying to re-constitute hardened cement.

>
..cut.....

>Also is my pattern sound? 
Probably.  How large are the pieces?  Very large pieces will have more
stress placed on them.
        Are there lines which run completely from one side to the other,
or completely from top to bottom?  If so, it will be a weaker panel than
if  there are no complete runs from side to side or top to bottom or
diagonally.
        If you are really worried about thunderstorms, fit it with a
single pane of 3/8 inch glass outside the leaded glass.


>My husband designed it. I add squares in the
>center, ( they're actually diamonds, couldn't figure out how to draw
>them) in the center, to give support. Here is what it looks like, but
>three times repeated vertically. It is approximately 12x34. Encased in
>oak, do you think it will take WV thunderstorms?  The weather usually
>comes from that side of the house. Each panel is one half of the window.
>
>If I need to start over, I'd like to do it before I build all 4 of them.
>Please advise.
>
>Thanks, Kathy
>______
>| \          /|
>|  \       /  |
>|   \_ /     |
>|   /_ \     |
>|  /      \   |
>|/_____\ |
>
>Well, something like that anyway.
>
Best wishes,
Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 16:33:53 1999
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From: Kathy <khupp@citynet.net>
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: windows
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 19:12:23 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.151223.0>
References: <<wyz4RZAbK7j3EwIb@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

>Also is my pattern sound?
Probably.  How large are the pieces?  Very large pieces will have more
stress placed on them.
        Are there lines which run completely from one side to the other,
or completely from top to bottom?  If so, it will be a weaker panel than
if  there are no complete runs from side to side or top to bottom or
diagonally.
        If you are really worried about thunderstorms, fit it with a
single pane of 3/8 inch glass outside the leaded glass.

Steve,

The pieces in the window are rather large. The largest being 5.5 x 5.5
inches. The longest strips are
2.5 x 5.5 inches. Which is kind of worrying. But nothing runs straight up or
down, or sideways, from end to end. It is all done diagonally. Fortunately,
the large pieces are clear window glass, so if something does fracture, I'll
be able to replace it. I've also purchased an extra couple sheets of the
stained glass to keep, for just in case.

Thanks for answering me. I feel quite a bit more secure that this will be ok.
And you are right. Leaded glass is a joy to work with.

Also, thanks to Shari for the tip on finding whiting. I'll give it a try.

Back to the next 2 windows!!

Kathy


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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 17:35:24 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Glass list" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: fremont glasss
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 19:53:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.155344.0>
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Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Figgy <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: Howard <weaver51@teleport.com>; Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
Sent: July 15, 1999 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: fremont glasss


> Sorry but you're wrong on all three points!
> Firstly, Fremont has several colours that are flashed opal making them
very
> suitable for such projects as lamps.
> Secondly, their glass is sold by the square foot, as you can see by their
> factory tags which indicate the size.
> Thirdly, the rolled edge remains on one side usually, with the factory's
> measurement on their label being generous so in fact you don't pay for the
> rolled edge...
>
> Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
> (Tel:416-252-6868)
> Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
> supplier.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Howard <weaver51@teleport.com>
> To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
> Sent: July 15, 1999 6:10 PM
> Subject: Re: fremont glasss
>
>
> > Because Freemont is primarily clear it is not a glass I can/would use
for
> > lamps.
> > I do not remember if it by the pound or square foot.
> > It is to the advantage of the seller to charge by the pound as you get
to
> > pay for the rolled edge, too.
> > enjoy, H
> > weaver51@teleport.com
> > Elaine and Howard
> > best lamps on the "net":
> > http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>

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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Rick" <rwl50@yahoo.com>, "Mike Savad" <esavad@home.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: fremont glasss
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 19:56:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.155611.0>
References: <<1999Jul16.2854.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I resent that comment- implying that your retailer would be so dishonest as
to do such a thing...
Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

----- Original Message -----
From: Rick <rwl50@yahoo.com>
To: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>; <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: July 16, 1999 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: fremont glasss


>
> > > It is to the advantage of the seller to charge by
> > the pound as you get to
> > > pay for the rolled edge, too.
>
> Just make sure their thumb isn't on the scale...sort
> a' like payin for the bone in a cut of meat..
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ===
> http://home.fuse.net/crafts
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 18:04:28 1999
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X-Path: warner-criv.com!charles
From: "Charles Warner" <charles@warner-criv.com>
To: <Witchdoc3@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: "New" Glass I Found
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:16:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.16160.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sparks:

>A bit of a refresher on the context here:
>
>"Some" stained glass stores....... Hmmmmm............ 
> (cut)
>
>Now, lemme see....... Charles, can I borrow that asbestos suit? 

It's now in full-time use, didn't you see my singed hair from the UK?

Glad you are back

Charles Warner

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 18:12:54 1999
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:17:29 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul20.101729.0>
References: <<1999Jul16.7583.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

> Defacing public property...hmmmmmm...if it is ok to deface a *public*
> wall, is it ok to dig up a tree in a National forest?  Or carve your
> initials in it, because someone might find it attractive?
> It cant be ok in one place and not in another.
> 


I think you are being nitpicky here Suzanne...and just being an
exprobation officer doesnt mean you have all the answers.

Liz
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 18:36:43 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:33:10 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul20.103310.0>
References: <<1999Jul16.121544.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

Modiano, Victor wrote:
> 
> I will never conform!!!!!!
> 
> The house will be striped and that's the end of it.
> 
> Vic M.
> 
> I actually saw a striped house in the Kansas City area.
> >From what I heard the neighbors were less than thrilled.
> 
>               


I love it...people who think it is their personal mission in life to
bully and harrass people who dont fit into their cozy world view not
only drive me crazy but they just bring out the WORST in me...hee
hee....

Liz
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 19:01:24 1999
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X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50
From: Rick <rwl50@yahoo.com>
To: Mike Figgy <mfig@netcom.ca>, Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: fremont glasss
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:12:05 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.17125.0>
Precedence: bulk

Het Mike...chill dude...it's an old butcher shop
trick,
and believe it or not, they actually used to do that.

Rick, the old Italian butcher's grandson son


--- Mike Figgy <mfig@netcom.ca> wrote:
> I resent that comment- implying that your retailer
> would be so dishonest as
> to do such a thing...
> Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto,
> Canada, M8Y 1L2
> (Tel:416-252-6868)
> Canada's first and yes, still its only officially
> sanctioned stained glass
> supplier.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rick <rwl50@yahoo.com>
> To: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>; <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent: July 16, 1999 6:08 AM
> Subject: Re: fremont glasss
> 
> 
> >
> > > > It is to the advantage of the seller to charge
> by
> > > the pound as you get to
> > > > pay for the rolled edge, too.
> >
> > Just make sure their thumb isn't on the
> scale...sort
> > a' like payin for the bone in a cut of meat..
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ===
> > http://home.fuse.net/crafts
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to:
> glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> 
> 

===
http://home.fuse.net/crafts

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 19:03:02 1999
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:21:35 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: fremont glasss
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:20:41 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.172041.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Mike Figgy"
>Firstly, Fremont has several colours that are flashed opal making them
very
> suitable for such projects as lamps.<

Perhaps true for some kinds of lamps, but =

I wouldn't be inclined to use Fremont for =

a Tiffany-style lamp either.... after all, we're
trying to be "painterly" here.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 19:17:18 1999
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:51:38 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Shari Higbee" <shigbee@stmassociates.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: whiting
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:13:51 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.171351.0>
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Message text written by "Shari Higbee"
>
I stumbled upon whiting the other day in my locally owned hardware store =
in
the paint section. It was marked as something to be used in "cleanup". I
think it was with the turpentine and stuff...<

If you have a ceramics store near you, they often carry
it.... that's where we buy ours in 50-100 pound bags.  =

Your stained glass retailer should be able to get 5#
cartons of it, but it'll cost you.  Also, I've heard that
groomers use it... lastly, you might be able to get it
through a ranch/farm supplier... they also use it for
grooming sheep and such.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 20:50:42 1999
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	for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 23:40:39 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990716234039.006e7778@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
References: <<1999Jul16.121544.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Agreed, as you continue to demonstate.

At 05:33 PM 7/20/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Modiano, Victor wrote:
>> 
>> I will never conform!!!!!!
>> 
>> The house will be striped and that's the end of it.
>> 
>> Vic M.
>> 
>> I actually saw a striped house in the Kansas City area.
>> >From what I heard the neighbors were less than thrilled.
>> 
>>               
>
>
>I love it...people who think it is their personal mission in life to
>bully and harrass people who dont fit into their cozy world view not
>only drive me crazy but they just bring out the WORST in me...hee
>hee....
>
>Liz
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 21:20:09 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:55:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.175545.0>
References: <<37951199.6A7A@ior.com>>
Precedence: bulk

> I think you are being nitpicky here Suzanne...and just being an
> exprobation officer doesnt mean you have all the answers.
> 
> Liz
> 

I never claimed to have *any* answers. It sounds to me as if you think I
am bragging by saying I'm an exprobation officer.  Actually, It
embarrasses me as much as anything.  It doesnt go with my personality.
I dont fit in with most other probation officers.

I was only expressing that I have a respect in general for rules.  You
didnt read the complete thought.  I would think it would have been
somewhat self explanatory...when you are sworn to uphold the law...you'd
think there must be at least a little respect for it.

I happen to believe that defacing public property is wrong.  Whether it
was against the law or not, it is against what I believe.  It belongs to
someone else...leave it alone.

It isnt being nitpicky.  It is the law.  It's written in black and
white.


Suzanne
-- 
Do what you love, love what you do, and deliver more than you promised.

                                       ----Harvey MacKay
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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 22:10:43 1999
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X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: glass samples
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 99 10:09:49 
Message-ID: <199907170416.WAA05298@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

I have some from the manufacturer's and also my own 'in stock'.. helps me with the 
color arranging in windows and helps the customer (and me) narrow down which colors 
they *really* want, and helps students.. they pick out the sample and I go to my racks 
(which are packed tight, since I have a small studio)

Candy

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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 22:51:17 1999
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X-Path: pacbell.net!meryder
From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: whiting
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:51:20 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.145120.0>
References: <<1999Jul16.65925.0>>
Precedence: bulk

When I'm short on whiting I use clean sawdust from hubby's woodshop.
Works pretty good.

When I'm using gray putty, I also mix in shavings from the pencil
sharpener with the sawdust...adds to the gray color of the putty
and for some reason, darkens the solder joints a little bit...it gives
them an aged look so they're more like the lead came instead of
being shiny silver.

I've made two large leaded windows using this method and they
look very nice.

Best regards,
Cheryl

Shari Higbee wrote:

> kathy said:
> <I've called every
> <place in my county asking for whiting, so I could mix my own, to no
> <avail. I even told them it is used in whitewash, to give them a
> <reference point.
>
> I stumbled upon whiting the other day in my locally owned hardware store in
> the paint section. It was marked as something to be used in "cleanup". I
> think it was with the turpentine and stuff...
>
> Shari
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 23:11:09 1999
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X-Path: pacbell.net!meryder
From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Any recommendations on new cutter?
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:04:29 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.15429.0>
References: <<004801becf41$233d5b00$9ce2fdd1@default>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bob,

I probably should have written that recipe a little better..
3-in-1 (or "household oil"...used for sewing machines, etc.)
"Cutting Oil" (a very lightweight oil from Glastar)

Cutting oil is too lightweight when used alone and it leaks through the
cutter's oil seals as if they weren't there.  Household Oil alone is too
thick and it clogs the wick in the cutting head.

I tried 50-50 mix of Household & Cutting Oil is still a bit too thin, and
leaks.

So I finally settled on around a 60% Household oil to 40% Cutting Oil
as the best mixture to keep the oil flowing judiciously to the cutting wheel

without clogging or running.  I've been using this mixture in my cutters
since
I bought them 4 years ago and they still work very well.

Best regards,
Cheryl



Bob Duchesneau wrote:

> >>Both have
> oil reservoirs, and with a 60-40 mix of 3-in-1 to cutting oil they don't
> leak.<<
>
> Is that 60% of 3 and 40% of 1?
> Bob
>
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm



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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 23:28:37 1999
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From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Rare Glass1
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:08:35 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.15835.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

While were on the subject of rare glass (i.e. Fremont Glass), does
anyone
still have any "Merry-Go-Round" around?

I have a small piece of softly irridized creamy beige, but that's all I
have left.

Regards,
Cheryl



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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 23:34:44 1999
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X-Path: pacbell.net!meryder
From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: thumb on the scale
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:11:54 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul16.151154.0>
References: <<1999Jul16.17125.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

Reminds me of an old Norman Rockwell illustration I saw a print of
recently..
A lady is at the butcher store, and the butcher has put a piece of meat
on the
scale.  Both the eyes of the butcher and the lady are focused on the
scale's
readout dial, so neither of the two can see what the other is
doing...the butcher
has his thumb on the scale bed, pushing down, and the lady has her
finger
under the scale bed, pushing up....  It's a cute scene...

Regards,
Cheryl

Rick wrote:

> Het Mike...chill dude...it's an old butcher shop
> trick,
> and believe it or not, they actually used to do that.
>
> Rick, the old Italian butcher's grandson son
>
> --- Mike Figgy <mfig@netcom.ca> wrote:
> > I resent that comment- implying that your retailer
> > would be so dishonest as
> > to do such a thing...
> > Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto,
> > Canada, M8Y 1L2
> > (Tel:416-252-6868)
> > Canada's first and yes, still its only officially
> > sanctioned stained glass
> > supplier.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rick <rwl50@yahoo.com>
> > To: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>; <glass@bungi.com>
> > Sent: July 16, 1999 6:08 AM
> > Subject: Re: fremont glasss
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > > It is to the advantage of the seller to charge
> > by
> > > > the pound as you get to
> > > > > pay for the rolled edge, too.
> > >
> > > Just make sure their thumb isn't on the
> > scale...sort
> > > a' like payin for the bone in a cut of meat..
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ===
> > > http://home.fuse.net/crafts
> > >
> > >
> >
> _________________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to:
> > glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to:
> > glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ===
> http://home.fuse.net/crafts
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Fri Jul 16 23:49:14 1999
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Subject: Glass in Albuquerque
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:21:55 -0700
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Hi All..
I'm headed to Albuquerque NM next week for a few days R&R.... While I'm
there I'll be visiting the SG Store there (home of the NM Stained Glass
Artists Association.)

Does anyone want me to convey greetings and salutations to anyone there?

I'll be happy to deliver the messages.

Best regards,
Cheryl Ryder



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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 00:38:44 1999
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: whiting
Date: Fri Jul 16 23:25:28 1999
Message-ID: <1999Jul17.21328.0>
References: <<1999Jul16.171351.0>>
Organization: taylor'd Expressions
Precedence: bulk

$1.00 per pound
taylor'd expressions


debbie taylor

taylor'd Expressions
"Your complete art glass supply source."
kleeman@one.net
http://www.taylordexpressions.com/
1-888-488-9616 (toll free)

----- Original Message -----
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Shari Higbee <shigbee@stmassociates.com>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 1999 9:13 PM
Subject: whiting


> Message text written by "Shari Higbee"
> >
> I stumbled upon whiting the other day in my locally owned hardware store =
> in
> the paint section. It was marked as something to be used in "cleanup". I
> think it was with the turpentine and stuff...<
>
> If you have a ceramics store near you, they often carry
> it.... that's where we buy ours in 50-100 pound bags.  =
>
> Your stained glass retailer should be able to get 5#
> cartons of it, but it'll cost you.  Also, I've heard that
> groomers use it... lastly, you might be able to get it
> through a ranch/farm supplier... they also use it for
> grooming sheep and such.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dani Greer
> Greer Gallery & Studios
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 02:08:40 1999
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Subject: Arkie Pisello's book on 3-D sculptural SG
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:12:04 +0100
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Precedence: bulk

Has anyone on bungi bought Arkie's book and if so can you let me know what
you think of it? (off bungi if you like to keep personal opinions private)
We are seriously considering gettin stocks for resale - but I dont want to
order a large quantity (which would be the only economical way to get them
across the pond) without knowing a bit more about it than Arkie has told me.
After all I cant expect the author and publisher to be quite as impartial
about its value as a potential customer in our retail shop looking for a new
project to tackle will be!
What I need to know is :
Does it give good clear instructions?  
Could an intermediate level stained glass crafter work from it without
having a more experienced teacher on their shoulder?  
What is the print quality like? (we have in the past been very disappointed
by selfpublished books that looked cheap!) and is the cover photo clear and
inviting?
Basically it comes down to - would you buy it for 29.95 dollars if you saw
it in a stained glass shop book display and could browse through it before
buying?
Thanks in advance for any input that would help me make a sensible
commercial decision.
Regards
EliZabeth in Bournemouth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 03:38:59 1999
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From: Lee Boe <leestat7@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass List <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Irridizing spray for Hot Glass (beads)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 05:32:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul17.13230.0>
References: <<1999Jul16.82738.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
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Hi all,

Sorry for the 'repeat' this is going to all 3 glass lists.  

I was looking in either a magazine, or a hot glass catalog, and found an
irridizing spray listed, to be used on beads/sculptures.   It said not
'as toxic' as most oxides.  

Now the problem, I can't find it again.  GGGRRRRRR.  Also called Arrow
Springs, and Franz  Bead thinking they were the logical ones.  Nope,
neither carry it.

Can anyone help with this??  I think I'm going nuts, I surely saw it, 
price was about $50.00 US. 

Lee Boe
RAin-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 05:02:06 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: meryder@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Any recommendations on new cutter?
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:02:16 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul17.12216.0>
References: <<1999Jul16.15429.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

The oil I use in my cutters is sewing machine oil.  It is relatively
cheap, easily available, and of the right consistency, so no mixing is
required, just open and use.

Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 05:16:18 1999
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: About photographing stained glass pieces
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:33:31 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul17.133331.0>
References: <<1999Jul16.82738.0@?>>
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Bob and list - my comments are interspersed with your draft guidelines.
        

In message <1999Jul16.82738.0@?>, rrk <ezcomezgo@earthlink.net> writes
>
.......cut.....
>
>Perhaps we could hammer out a set of general working
>guidelines, and add specifics as we go along.
>
>Everyone could chime in here with their own personal
>experiences, good or bad, even if you don=92t know everything
>you can add what you do know, what you tried, what worked,
>what didn=92t work =85 and so on.
>
..cut....
>
>So, reasoning from first principles it seems to me that :
>
>1 ... Large format is better than small format.  A 35 mm
>format is not as good as a 8x11 format.  The bigger the
>film, the better the photo; the bigger the photo, the better
>it will scan in; the better it scans in, the better the
>final image presented on the web..
>
OK.  but most of us can't afford large format cameras (we are not
professionals in photography).  So choose 35mm rather than 125 or other
small format. Use a camera where you can turn the flash off.
        More important is the focus.  It must be very sharp.  This means
using the smallest aperture (largest f stop number) possible for the
lighting conditions. And concentrating on the focus mechanism.
Automatic focus does not always focus on the glass, especially if it is
lightly coloured or clear.

>2 ... The camera must be mounted on a tripod.
>
Yes
>3 ... The center of the piece should be at approximately the
>same level as the camera lens.  (flat panels only, spherical
>or semi-spherical lamps are another story)
>
yes
>4 ... Photos should be taken at night only, in order to
>control the light.
>
The amount of light that can be added at night without a photography
studio set up is much less than available in the day.  It is much better
to arrange the item to be photographed to take advantage of the day
light.  Direct sunlight is not very helpful, but open shade is very
good.  See later for back lighting and front lighting.

>5 ... Quartz or halogen lights should be used for
>backlighting as they approximate natural sunlight better
>than other artificial lighting types (ca va dire tungsten
>filaments).
The best results come from the closest imitation of the daylight
spectrum of light.  both Quartz and halogen have the (almost) opposite
effect of tungsten lights.  This applies to both back and front
lighting.
>
>6 =85 Umbrella style reflectors should be used.
>
The important thing is to have the light at an oblique angle to the
camera lens in front lighting. Assuming you do not have electronic
flashes in these umbrella reflectors, you must look very carefully
through your lens to check on any light reflections from the glass.

>7 ... Backlighting is a must.  Depending on the piece, the
>lights/reflectors should be off to the side and not heading
>directly in the direction of the camera.
>
Well now...   Backlighting is only a must if you are photographing an
article which depends for its effect on transmitted light.  If you are
photographing a lamp, backlighting might overwhelm the light from the
lamp.  This is a case where night time photography might be useful (cant
think of any others when night photography is useful)
        When backlighting, the light should be below the panel or out of
shot at the sides (and if side, it must be both sides). the light should
be aimed at the backdrop so it is dispersed and general.  This requires
a lot of light power!
        The best backlighting comes from daylight.  Placing a piece of
tracing paper over the window, and the panel a little in front of that,
provides an excellent light source.  (this assumes no direct sunlight,
which washes out the colour of most panels in photographs even if not in
eyesight).

>8 ... The piece should be surrounded by black material
>(sheets or paper).
Here again, I disagree.  the piece should be placed on a white mounting
board or other flexible material gently curving from horizontal to
vertical.  The curve produced by this coving, removes the line produced
by the join of the horizontal and vertical surfaces.  If the coving is
big enough, you place the piece on the horizontal portion of it, so the
photograph does not show the front of the coving.  
        There is a certain amount of personal taste here, but if you are
backlighting, black does not produce a very good reflective surface.  In
addition, the panels which allow a lot of light through, will appear
black or very much darker than they really are. It's white everytime for
me, unless I can get the sky behind the glass - that is much, much
better. 
>
>9 ... The piece should completely fill up the camera view,
>or as close as possible.
>
Yes for studio shots.  For installed pieces, several shots are useful.
One to give the general situation, another to show specific location
details, others to show just the piece and details.

>
Additional comments:

10.  Effect of density of glass on photography
        The nature of the piece you are photographing affects the light
source.  If you are photographing opalescent glasses, reflecting light
is more important.  If it is a lamp or iridescent, or dichoric glass,
both reflecting and transmitted light is important.  You can't combine
these, just take several photos in different lighting and angles.
        Photos of panels or pieces of largely cathedral glass are best
done in transmitted light (or backlighting).  
        Photos of pieces with dense glass need care.  If the pieces are
uniformly dense, then backlighting (with powerful lights, like the
daylight) are useful.  You may want to place black card or cloth around
the piece to block any light from coming around the piece into the
cameral lens.  This works best for two dimensional pieces obviously.
        If the densities of the glass in the piece vary greatly, you
will need to photo in several lighting conditions - back and front
lighting, etc.

11.  Amount of light
        You should invest in a simple light meter, as the one in your
camera averages the light coming to the lens.  You are interested in
what is available at the surface of the item, not the general light
available.  (the variation will be reduced by filling the lens with the
piece to be photographed).  

12.   Bracketing
        Even though the meter will give you the appropriate speed and
aperture settings, you need to take at least one photo at the next
slowest and next fastest speed each as well as the indicated settings.
This allows the choice of the best result.  Over exposure is generally
required, but too much washes out the colours.  Under exposure can on
occasion be the best result.

13.   Kind of film 
        Slide film is much more sensitive to the light than print film.
You will get a much larger difference with slide film using one speed up
and one down from the ideal setting, than with print film.  I find that
print film does not really show a difference unless two speed stops
either side of the "ideal" setting is used.

14.  Film sensitivity to colour.
        Various brands of film react differently to colour.  Kodak
        emphasises red and orange, while Agfa and Fuji emphasise blues
        and greens.    So, I don't use Kodak at all, as its colour is
        far too red for true representation of colours, and if any
        incandescent lighting is around, everything has a red/orange
        cast.

Of Course,  all this is just my opinion/experience
Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 06:29:01 1999
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To: glass@bungi.com (Bungi)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Sidelights to Foil or lead?
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:14:29 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul17.131429.0>
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Hi. My name is Gail and I am new to this list.  I started working with glass 
in 1977 and haven't stopped.  I have expanded to include a line of jewelry 
boxes that sell quite nicely, some fused dichroic jewelry, and a little 
slumping.  I also have a torch that has been retired untill I have more time.

I did mostly leaded windows when I lived in L.A.  I have done copper foil 
panels but I prefer lead and my style lends itself to lead rather than copper 
foil.  I have done a few in which I used both lead and copper foil.  I won't 
choose to use copper foil for panels of any size unless the detail demands 
it.  In that warmer climate I sometimes replaced the existing glass with the 
leaded panel but now that I live in Vermont, that is not smart for several 
reasons.  I usually install set of stops or spacers, usually molding of some 
sort,  on the inside of the existing glass and then install the leaded panel 
against that.  I then use whatever molding works to hold the new panel in 
place. The temperature extremes are to great here and the panel adds an extra 
bit of insulation.  It's been working great.

One question about the cracking of CF vs. Lead.  I understood that a panel 
would crack if it was installed with too tight a fit.  In LA we had to allow 
for earthquake tremors so the fit was important.  I have done doors and 
sidelights out there and only one door broke... but it had been slammed with 
great force!!  Not the fault of the panel.

Glad to have found this list.  Thanks

Gail 
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 07:29:23 1999
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From: "Charles R. Clark" <dwood@sky.net>
To: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:20:10 -0500
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> > I actually saw a striped house in the Kansas City area.
> > >From what I heard the neighbors were less than thrilled.
> >
> >

Hi All,
This house, located on Ward Parkway has steel siding. Seven different
colors, one each for the owner's grandchildren. The colors are/were
pastel. Lot's of controversy in that neighborhood.
David
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 08:34:08 1999
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X-Path: pacbell.net!meryder
From: meryder@pacbell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: whiting
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 08:18:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul17.1183.0>
References: <<01bed057$edd5da60$2825a8c0@charles.area37.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Great idea, and thanks!

Charles Warner wrote:

> Cheryl:
>
> >When I'm using gray putty, I also mix in shavings from the pencil
> >sharpener with the sawdust...adds to the gray color of the putty
> >and for some reason, darkens the solder joints a little bit...it gives
> >them an aged look so they're more like the lead came instead of
> >being shiny silver.
>
> Use lamp black or stove black in the putty and a natural bristle brush
> in the final clean up.   I always used very fine sawdust and using a
> polishing action similar to polishing shoes the brush will leave a
> paint-like surface on the lead came which can very dark if not black.
> This will work on the solder joints and the lead came.
>
> Good luck
>
> Charles Warner
> Warner-Crivellaro
> http://www.warner-criv.com/



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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 09:04:17 1999
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: "Charles Warner" <charles@warner-criv.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: "New" Glass I Found
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:38:59 +0000
Message-ID: <199907171545.PAA14409@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Charles.... it WASN'T  M E.... honest....!!   
Count-down now in full progress... ;->
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


> From:          "Charles Warner" <charles@warner-criv.com>
> To:            <Witchdoc3@aol.com>
> Subject:       Re: "New" Glass I Found
> Date:          Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:16:00 -0400

> Sparks:
> 
> >A bit of a refresher on the context here:
> >
> >"Some" stained glass stores....... Hmmmmm............ 
> > (cut)
> >
> >Now, lemme see....... Charles, can I borrow that asbestos suit? 
> 
> It's now in full-time use, didn't you see my singed hair from the UK?
> 
> Glad you are back
> 
> Charles Warner
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 09:18:13 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: "New" Glass I Found
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:38:59 +0000
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Hey Sparks,
I'll lend you my helmet and hammer ANY time!!!
Toby is busy practicing on  a HUGE bone from some critter that once 
was alive.
When he howls, he's pretty scary...
...and ME.... well, .. you ain't seen nothing yet! 
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Sparks returned from UK wrote:
> Now, lemme see....... Charles, can I borrow that asbestos suit? Elisabeth, 
> how 'bout loaning me that neat-o helmet with the horns - oh, and the 
> thunder-hammer too..... Hey Toby! Wanna go geek-hunting?
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 09:31:44 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: NG - sort of  - Flying, eating critters on The E-Tour  :-<
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:38:59 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

Hi all, 
Replies to THIS one, should probably go to me personally, rather than 
on BUNGI.

I am sorry to have to disappoint  "some" of you, but there won't be 
any "nekkid" shows on The  E-Tour; partly because of anxiety about 
flying critters that enjoy eating humans.
Your advice how to keep them away from me, will be gratefully 
received.
And apart from UK preventatives and remedies I'll be bringing with me 
what can you suggest to me so that I may stay and return "uneaten". 
(The little monsters have caused me visits to hospital twice during 
my peripetatic life....)

Elisabeth (who has just received her travel insurance for UK Sterling 
10 million) 'n worried Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 09:39:08 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:49:05 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Jul17.15495.0>
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In a message dated 7/16/99 3:25:22 PM, dwood@sky.net writes:

>Gawd!!! When will those damned white European types quit acting out
>their heritage? They must all be made to paint their houses purple!!!
>We've just got to make them conform!

You said it, I didn't :-)


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 09:49:48 1999
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Sidelights to Foil or lead?
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:49:11 EDT
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In a message dated 7/16/99 3:37:27 PM, Ensembles@compuserve.com writes:

>Message text written by "Pat Jellison"
>>Ahh!  Wow! I think you just answered something this newbie
>>has been wrestling with.  I have a small window in my
>>front door  (is THAT what a doorlight is?!!) that I've
>>been longing to fill with stained glass [...]
>
>To answer your question....yep, it's OK to place the SG
>on the inside of the plain glass & refit the molding.  Lots
>more stable too.  Looks grand.

The first "original" SG piece I ever did (actually a rather drastic 
modification of something I found in a book) was a 12" round of a seagull in 
flight to fill the window in my parents' front door. For almost 30 years 
they'd been putting up with the setting sun blasting through that window 
straight into the eyes of whoever was sitting on the "wrong" side of the 
dining room table. My dad put a piece of heavy Mylar in there, which helped 
but it looked like hell.

I got my niece to sneak in and measure the window when they weren't home, 
then cut and foiled all the pieces at home. On one of my trips out there I 
took all my tools along, verified the exact measurement while no one was 
looking, assembled the piece and framed it in 1/8" zinc, and installed it 
while they were out grocery shopping. My mom totally freaked out, she's crazy 
about it.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 09:55:53 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Door panel opinions sought
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:53:21 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Jul17.75321.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone.  I've gotten a request from a client to replace
a beveled glass door which he owns which is disintegrating.
Let me explain.  The door is a solid wood frame with a custom
beveled panel (all clear) inserted in the middle.  Glass dimensions
are 21" wide x 66" tall.  Big sucker of a bevel cluster.  This
is the front door of the house.  They have 2 teenaged boys
who slam the door.  This is what is causing the bevel cluster
panel to crack.  This guy says that just about every week he
discovers another crack in another of the pieces.  Right now
there are 9 pieces cracked.  The panel is not reinforced in
any way.  In fact, I can easily make the panel bend back and
forth simply by gently pushing on it in the center.  This is a lead
came panel, with little or (more probable) no cementing.  Don't
know where it came from.  Doesn't match any standard bevel
clusters in my distributors's books.

So...I can't repair the thing.  I can only replace it with another
stained glass piece.  But I don't want the same thing to happen
to my replacement panel as is happening to this bevel cluster
panel.

Some ideas I've thought about...Please give me your opinions
on the pros/cons of them and any other ideas you might have.

Quote#1: Purchase a stock bevel cluster in a similar size/design
as the original, add clear Spectrum Artique glass as background
(the client likes it), use lead & cement, and add 3 steel rebars to
the front of the panel to be anchored into the wooden frame, as well
as matching 3 steel rebars to the back of the panel, also to be
anchored into the wooden frame.  This way the rebars front and
back act as the brace to keep the panel from flexing during opening
and slamming.  Rebars to be evenly spaced running horizontally.

Quote#2: Client asked for a quote on a custom design to match his
custom faux painted wisteria vines and ivy vines inside the house.
No problem - can do.  But I would like to cover the same amount of
space (21" x 66") using copper foil and use lots of inter-locking curves
to give the panel more designed-in strength.  Use Morton StrongLine
copper-clad steel internal reinforcement strips inside most major
solder lines, particularly those running horizontally as well as at least=

3 running vertically.  Anchor some of the StrongLine into the wooden
frame.  No external rebar.

Gang - any problems with either method?  Which would you do?  Is
the another solution?

Christie Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From: maruca@netaxs.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Montreal?
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:10:44 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1999Jul17.81044.0>
References: <<1999Jul16.82738.0>>
Precedence: bulk


Hi Folks! 

Any recommendations for glass to view on Montreal? We **may** be there the
weekend on of 30 July.

Thanks,

Mary


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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 10:22:51 1999
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From: Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>
To: meryder@pacbell.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: whiting
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:38:06 -0700
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990717093806.00967c60@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>
References: <<1999Jul16.65925.0>>
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At 09:51 PM 7/16/99 -0700, Cheryl wrote:
>
>When I'm short on whiting I use clean sawdust from hubby's woodshop.
>Works pretty good.
>

Phew...I was beginning to wonder if I had imagined this approach.  I would
have sworn that I was taught to use redwood sawdust when I took my first
class in the mid-80s.

Steve

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To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: NG - sort of  - Flying, eating critters on The E-Tour  :-<
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 13:49:32 -0400 (EDT)
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References: <<199907171545.PAA14406@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk



On Sat, 17 Jul 1999, Toby wrote:

> Hi all, 
> Replies to THIS one, should probably go to me personally, rather than 
> on BUNGI.
> 
> I am sorry to have to disappoint  "some" of you, but there won't be 
> any "nekkid" shows on The  E-Tour; partly because of anxiety about 
> flying critters that enjoy eating humans.
> Your advice how to keep them away from me, will be gratefully 
> received.

Eat plenty of fresh garlic!

m


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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 12:36:29 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: "Charles R. Clark" <dwood@sky.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Nonglass: grafitti
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:43:08 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Jul21.4438.0>
References: <<3790911A.F26F1F81@sky.net>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

> 
> Hi All,
> This house, located on Ward Parkway has steel siding. Seven different
> colors, one each for the owner's grandchildren. The colors are/were
> pastel. Lot's of controversy in that neighborhood.
> David


sounds Kewl:) But as I can imagine there are no doubt a lot of button
down types that are deeply offended by what someone else chooses to do.
Live and let live....actually the only reason I live in a "normal" house
is because my husband likes it...if it were up to me I would buy an old
victorian and do weird stuff like let the kids handprint all over the
walls, paint each room a different color, lots of thrift store and of
course, LOTS OF GLASS:) But dh likes his house a little more classy than
me I guess and I really dont care about it that much. I have my land for
my horses so I'm happy.....I always wonder about people who dont have
anything better to do with their time than worry what color someone else
painted their house or other things like that.  Too much time on their
hands I guess....one time I looked into buying a "historical" house when
I lived in MA and dropped the idea real fast when I saw how tightly
regulated you are in what you can and cannot do with them to preserve
their authenticity. Ditto for houses in certain resort areas that have
to look just so to preserve the resort "image"...I mean I see why they
do it but that doesnt mean that I want to be a part of it. 


Liz
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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 13:34:38 1999
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From: "Stained Glass Lamps" <stainedglasslamps@csinet.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:05:42 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BED065.D6D96BC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,  all you stained glass lovers,

I would like to tell you a little about my book!  How to Make A =
Three-Dimensional Stained Glass Sculpture.

 Book cover,  front & back  in color.
 Book has 52 pages in it.
The inside of the book is all in black & white.
Page   1 - 16  has information.
Page 17 - 52  are instructions & diagrams.
The print is Big & Clear.

The price is 29.95 plus 3.00 S & H  in USA.

 ****This is a whole new medium in stained glass.****

All you need is a little imagination & a lot of patience.
The book will be on my web site in a week or so.  Please!=20

L@@k up my web site   www.stainedglasslamps.com

If you have any questions,  feel free to e-mail me,  & I will be glad to =
help you if I can.

Thank You!
Arkie  Pisello  Sr.



------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BED065.D6D96BC0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>Hi,&nbsp; all you stained glass=20
lovers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>I would like to tell you a little =
about my=20
book!&nbsp; How to Make A Three-Dimensional Stained Glass=20
Sculpture.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4>&nbsp;Book cover,&nbsp; front &amp; =
back&nbsp;=20
in color.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>&nbsp;Book has 52 pages in it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>The inside of the book is all in black &amp;=20
white.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Page&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 - 16&nbsp; has =
information.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Page 17 - 52&nbsp; are instructions &amp;=20
diagrams.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>The print is Big &amp; Clear.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>The price is 29.95 plus 3.00 S &amp; H&nbsp; in=20
USA.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>&nbsp;****This is a whole new medium in stained=20
glass.****</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>All you need is a little imagination &amp; a lot of=20
patience.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>The book will be on my web site in a week or =
so.&nbsp; Please!=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>L@@k up my web site&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.stainedglasslamps.com">www.stainedglasslamps.com</A></=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>If you have any questions,&nbsp; feel free to e-mail =
me,&nbsp;=20
&amp; I will be glad to help you if I can.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Thank You!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Arkie&nbsp; Pisello&nbsp; Sr.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BED065.D6D96BC0--

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From owner-glass Sat Jul 17 13:54:04 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Door panel opinions sought
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 21:24:44 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Jul17.222444.0>
References: <<1999Jul17.75321.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

OK I'll bite. :-)

In message <1999Jul17.75321.0@?>, Christie A. Wood
<Ensembles@compuserve.com> writes
>Hi everyone.  I've gotten a request from a client to replace
>a beveled glass door which he owns which is disintegrating.
>Let me explain.  The door is a solid wood frame with a custom
>beveled panel (all clear) inserted in the middle.  Glass dimensions
>are 21" wide x 66" tall.  
..cut....
>
>So...I can't repair the thing.  I can only replace it with another
>stained glass piece.  But I don't want the same thing to happen
>to my replacement panel as is happening to this bevel cluster
>panel.
>
>Some ideas I've thought about...Please give me your opinions
>on the pros/cons of them and any other ideas you might have.
>
>Quote#1: Purchase a stock bevel cluster in a similar size/design
>as the original, add clear Spectrum Artique glass as background
>(the client likes it), use lead & cement, and add 3 steel rebars to
>the front of the panel to be anchored into the wooden frame, as well
>as matching 3 steel rebars