From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 04:51:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 03:40:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG-trouble in ISP land Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 06:39:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.13942.0> Precedence: bulk I'm having lots of trouble with my ISP, but when I can get on, there's little e-mail from the list. Are all of you having troubles too? (Like being shut down by Melissa and Papa?) I can only get on at 6;30 am...not in the evening as is my normal wont. Ah, well, I did get that soldering done. Tonight...work on nightlights. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 08:57:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:50:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG-trouble in ISP land Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 07:48:10 -0800 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990401074810.0092fad0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr1.13942.0>> Precedence: bulk At 06:39 AM 4/1/99 -0500, Dorothy wrote: >I'm having lots of trouble with my ISP, but when I can get on, there's >little e-mail from the list. Are all of you having troubles too? (Like >being shut down by Melissa and Papa?) I can only get on at 6;30 >am...not in the evening as is my normal wont. Ah, well, I did get that >soldering done. Tonight...work on nightlights. > Same story here. It started on Tuesday for me. Connecting to my ISP hasn't been too bad but I've had a lot of failures (unusual) trying to connect to the mail server to get my messages. I blamed in on those viruses clogging mail channels. Bungi traffic has seemed lighter than normal. There was a period of about 4 hours Tuesday afternoon when no new messages arrived, which is pretty suspicious. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 09:17:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:56:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Family Account Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG-trouble in ISP land Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:01:30 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.4130.0> References: <<1999Apr1.13942.0>> Precedence: bulk Dorothy... I have been having lots of trouble getting on, although I finally got through on the phone to them yesterday,and they swear there is no problem. Nobody had reported any. I told him...consider this a report. Driving me nuts. If it werent for so many other people telling me they are having trouble I would be just about ready to change ISPs. T Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 09:38:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:18:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Updated Who's Where in Bungi-Land list Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:17:50 -0800 Message-ID: <199904011617.IAA05551@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Steve Thanks for the time you put in to update the who's where list and also to add the where's who section... I think that since spring is here the real answer to who's where is that everybody's outside gardening! C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 10:18:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:41:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Matching Youghigany ice Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:44:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.34452.0> Precedence: bulk Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:56:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: stepping stones Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:55:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.7551.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Val Dvorak >Help! Is there any way to repair a piece of cracked glass in a stepping stone? The stepping stone I just finished came out with a crack in a large piece of the glass. This has never happen before, don't even know why it happen now. LOL. Am I asking for to much?< Sorry, Val, but no way to repair. You have to pour another stone. The crack probably happened as a result of different shrinkage rates between the concrete and the glass. I've seen it happen before, particularly to thicker pieces of glass. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 12:24:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:17:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: Re: stepping stones Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:02:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.9211.0> Precedence: bulk Val, There could have been a mark on the glass that cused it to crack too. Put that stone in your yard and eventually you will have a nice collection of what I call "test stones." I am really sorry it happend but I have had the same thing happen in reverse, the glass looked fine but the edge of the stone broke off when unmolding, on that stone I was lucky, I was able to pick out the glass and clean and repour. I did have a piece break/just crack, small as it was, it bugged me, but the stone looks fine and it was a gift so I didn't even call attention to it. Had it be a comission stone I would have redone it. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Christie A. Wood To: Bungi Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 1:53 PM Subject: stepping stones >Message text written by Val Dvorak >>Help! Is there any way to repair a piece of cracked glass in a stepping >stone? The stepping stone I just finished came out with a crack in a >large piece of the glass. This has never happen before, don't even know >why it happen now. LOL. Am I asking for to much?< > >Sorry, Val, but no way to repair. You have to pour another stone. >The crack probably happened as a result of different shrinkage >rates between the concrete and the glass. I've seen it happen >before, particularly to thicker pieces of glass. > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >http://www.igga.org/wood/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 12:54:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:31:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson From: Paula Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Matching Youghigany ice Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:12:49 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.71249.0> Precedence: bulk Shari sez >Well, not being one to hide my stupidity /snip/ Yes, a smart person would have checked >this out before starting on a big project Ummmm, well... call me a dummy, 'cuz I did a similar thing last weekend. I wasn't thinking when I started a wall mosaic and didn't have enough of the background. Luckily it was just a plain white background that my local store had a half-sheet of.... Paula Nelson uitland@glassdogstudio.com The Glass Dog Studio http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm vom Uitland Rottweilers http://www.glassdogstudio.com/uitland.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 13:16:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:04:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: stepping stones Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:06:53 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.4653.0> Precedence: bulk Repair for strength or appearance? In my experience, you will never get the crack to disappear completely. Some of the UV glues will make it less noticeable. They are also surprisingly strong. I have never used them on a stepping stone though and I do not know if they would hold up to that sort of punishment. You will want to use a two part UV resin glue. The one part UV glues are water soluble and would not be appropriate for an outdoor stepping stone. Several IGGA supporting suppliers carry two part UV glue. You will also want to check the consistency of whichever glue you use. I am guessing you want to flow the glue into the existing crack without being able to take the pieces of glass out. Some of the glues are about the consistency of water and this is what you want for it to flow into the crack. Depending on use, I have also used "Hot Stuff" super glue. Hot Stuff is again about the consistency of water so it will flow into cracks where most cyanoacrylic (sp.?) super glues will not. However, you can only expect about 5 years life from these glues and the will start yellowing before then. In a wet application such as a stepping stone, mildew will also start attacking a super glue and breaking it down. -----Original Message----- From: Val Dvorak To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 12:46 AM Subject: stepping stones >Hi All, >Help! Is there any way to repair a piece of cracked glass in a stepping >stone? The stepping stone I just finished came out with a crack in a >large piece of the glass. This has never happen before, don't even know >why it happen now. LOL. Am I asking for to much? >Thanks. >Val > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 13:29:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:25:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Matching Youghigany ice Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:10:06 -0500 Message-ID: <199904012006.PAA28405@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 4/1/99 12:44 PM Shari Higbee shigbee@stmassociates.com >My question is this. What are the chances of being able to match my >yellowish ice? If I sent a small piece to one of the major glass suppliers, >would they be willing to hunt for another piece or two that matches closer >than what I've got? Whadd'ya think? > Shari, they should be. I've had the same trouble with Yough ice, there is a very light yellow that is close to the ice, but it's a different color. However, I think you need to find out where it came from, and have the invoice, and then call whoever you got it from first. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 14:00:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:18:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:13:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.111345.0> Precedence: bulk I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I move the workbench. So then I took it out on a flower bed that is brick and the small lip on the stretche is enough to grab and pull but if I even give it the least little angle up off it comes. So do any of you have a suggestion where to put it? What I did do was I screwed it to a big tree in my front yard for now. I am using vise grips for the other end which works ok, sometimes it bites a little hard into the lead and breaks but oh well...!! Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 15:00:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:21:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "suzy@comcat.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Matching Youghigany ice Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:24:29 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.102429.0> References: <<199904012006.PAA28405@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk Shari.. Todd in Warner Criv's glass dept is a prince! He helps me out all the time. I can describe a color and he comes up with a number off the top of his head. He is a nice guy to boot. Bet he could help you out. You'd have to ask him. Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 16:04:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:13:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:15:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.91515.0> Precedence: bulk Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:25:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson From: Paula Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:18:09 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.11189.0> Precedence: bulk Linda sez: >I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of >my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I >move the workbench. Oh, oh, oh..... No! Been there, done that, and went to the ER for it. Don't go there! I had the end give out of the clamp/pliers two years ago and I went flying into boxes and you don't want to know the rest. Go buy a Stanten (sp) stretcher or similar make and get a 6 foot 2x4 and attach it. Some are made to go on tables.... I think they might get in your way - this way it stands in a corner till you need it. Paula Nelson uitland@glassdogstudio.com The Glass Dog Studio http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm vom Uitland Rottweilers http://www.glassdogstudio.com/uitland.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 16:37:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:46:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:45:10 -0800 Message-ID: <199904012345.PAA18142@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of >my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I >move the workbench. Linda...for years I had it on one end of my workbench...I then braced my leg against the opposite end so I offered resistance as I pulled the lead which I had laid aross the top of the workbench. Two weeks ago I got the idea to screw it to the window ledge instead...doesn't move the bench, but the pulled lead sagged as soon as I stretched it without the workbench top beneath it. So, it'll be moved back to the workbench prior to my next leading project. I like the support the bench surface gves to the pulled lead. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 17:30:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:37:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Shari Higbee" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: re: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:35:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.143549.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Shari Higbee" > Linda Jo: I have mine on one end of my table, and then stretch the came clear across the table. I actually brace myself while I am pulling by putting one foot up on the table leg, which keep the table from being pulled towards me. Does that make sense? Anyway, when it does break, I tend to g= o flying. Otherwise, it works great! < That's how we do it..... and keep that other leg braced behind you so you= don't land on your caboose! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 17:48:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:49:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:45:18 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr2.04518.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Linda Jo:: >I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of >my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I >move the workbench. Uhhhhhhhhh.......... yeah. Like the first time I used the one at Lenore's place and forgot that not only was it attached to one of those folding "banquet tables," but the table itself was raised up on blocks 6 or 8" high. I gave the thing a yank and the entire table pulled off the blocks and crashed straight down...... Madame Pele *and* Saint Luke (not to mention whoever's the patron saint of the occasionally *very* uncoordinated; being a Baptist, I'm new to this saint stuff) must have been with me that day; fortunately the table came down so straight that the table legs held and nothing on the table broke or even got knocked over! >What I did do was I screwed it to a big tree in my front yard for now. I am >using vise grips for the other end which works ok, sometimes it bites a >little hard into the lead and breaks but oh well...!! Hey, it may look strange, but if it works........... :-) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 18:00:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:12:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson From: Paula Nelson To: Linda Jo Letscher , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:56:41 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.125641.0> Precedence: bulk >Ok it is becoming more clear all the time. I have the 6 foot 2x4, was going >to chuck it yesterday, glad I saved it. Is the stretcher you are talking >about the vise type one that our friends at W-C sell for a couple of bucks? >So when I am not using it I will just shove it somewhere. The Stanton is a pully device with it's own vice. Put that on one end and your little one on the other and there it is. I think the Stanton is about $44.... but it's worth the but-for-God fractured ankle and busted shoulder... I also did the foot against the table - that's how I got the velocity . For the price it was/is worth it - and it stretchs lead sweet -;) Paula Nelson uitland@glassdogstudio.com The Glass Dog Studio http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm vom Uitland Rottweilers http://www.glassdogstudio.com/uitland.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 18:30:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:56:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:54:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Apr1.95421.0> Precedence: bulk Tonight, when I finished my 6th panel (yes, I'm counting), I realized that I had cut and placed the glue chip **pieces** into the panel with the glue chip side on the back. But, the glue chip ** bevels ** have the glue chip side on the front. Should glue chip side on the glass match glue chip side on the bevels? Reading this over sounds like a Laurel & Hardy routine! Barbara Elmore _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 19:59:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:04:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: barbara elmore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 22:05:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.17511.0> References: <<1999Apr1.95421.0>> Precedence: bulk barbara elmore wrote: > > Tonight, when I finished my 6th panel (yes, I'm counting), I realized > that I had cut and placed the glue chip **pieces** into the panel with > the glue chip side on the back. But, the glue chip ** bevels ** have > the glue chip side on the front. > > Should glue chip side on the glass match glue chip side on the bevels? > > Reading this over sounds like a Laurel & Hardy routine! > > Barbara Elmore > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it all depends on what want. generally looking straight at it no one will notice. it's only when the reflection is seen, does it matter. most of my things have the glue chip on the back, it's just easier to do it that way instead of reversing it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 20:29:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:36:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: stepping stones Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:33:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.173350.0> Precedence: bulk Val asked: >>Hi All, Help! Is there any way to repair a piece of cracked >>glass in a stepping stone? The stepping stone I just finished >>came out with a crack in a large piece of the glass. This has >>never happen before, don't even know why it happen now. LOL. = >>Am I asking for to much? Thanks. Val I made several stones for my children. One suffered too much from the shock of four grandsons running over them and getting gravel between their Nike's and the stones. Surprisingly, only one piece has broken. Not knowing I probably would not be successful, I attempted to remove the broken piece. I ran many score lines on the broken piece expecting it to just fall out cleanly. It didnt.... I chipped it out with a screwdriver tip slowly but surely and have replaced the piece. But to tell = you the truth, I agree with others comments.... I would let a gift piece rest with the = broken piece as is unless it = broke out some parts and had sharp edges. If it was a sold piece and I felt in any way = responsible for the breakage, I would redo the piece before I would go thru the chip process = again. If you try to chip it out, wear safety glasses.... the concrete and glass will fly all over the place. This is not an April Fools's joke. Best of luck Jim Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Thursday, April 01, 1999 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 20:42:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:47:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!izzy3 From: Michael Smoucha To: barbara elmore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:47:30 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.154730.0> References: <<1999Apr1.95421.0>> Precedence: bulk barbara elmore wrote: > Tonight, when I finished my 6th panel (yes, I'm counting), I realized > that I had cut and placed the glue chip **pieces** into the panel with > the glue chip side on the back. But, the glue chip ** bevels ** have > the glue chip side on the front. > > Should glue chip side on the glass match glue chip side on the bevels? > > Reading this over sounds like a Laurel & Hardy routine! > > Barbara Elmore > > _________________________________________________________ The only rule is there are no rules! ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 20:53:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:51:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:56:59 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.155659.0> Precedence: bulk The first time I ever saw Arnold online was way before I joined Bungi. He was offering someone advice on a glass board somewhere. By the time I joined Bungi, I was well aware that Arnold was a nice guy. He wasnt pushing to make a sale, ever. He was just a helpful nice guy. I wish I had met Arnold a long time ago. He was a good friend, that I didnt have for long. I'm very thankful that I emailed him privately and he let me be a friend. The first thing I saw him talk about was giraffe joos. He swore by the stuff. I had/have never seen it anywhere. The day Arnold died, I recieved a package with a big bottle of giraffe joos, and a big bottle of Kwik clean. I have never heard anyone else ever say anything about giraffe joos. Arnold couldnt beleive that everyone didnt use it. ;o) Well, I have used it every day since I got it...and man...it is almost too easy. Kwik Clean too. This stuff is great. Just wanted to tell you guys, Arnold was right. I love this stuff. I dont have the experience like he did to tell you it lasts for ? period of time...but, I really like it. Arnold said it lasts for as long as 10 yrs. I was reminded yesterday (wont tell you how) that I have some very good friends that I found here. I am thankful for all of you. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 20:59:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:55:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sssnet.com!classi From: "Karen F." To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Shade repair near Wilkes-Barre? Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:51:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.17513.0> Precedence: bulk Hi again from a lurker. I have a guest visiting here in Ohio who mentioned that he has a lamp with a stained glass shade that has two panel broken. It was purchased in NYC as an antique in 1973. The value may or may not be extremely high, but the most important thing to my friend is that the pieces be replaced. Anyone near Wilkes-Barre or Kingston, PA willing to look at the shade and replace panels or advise where they may be replaced? Thanks in advance for any help. We will be around the net off and on over the weekend. Regards and Happy Easter to all of you. Karen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 21:32:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:30:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: cool stuff, sorta glass Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 22:35:56 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.163556.0> Precedence: bulk Things are going well with my giftshop guys. Day before yesterday, I took some things to show them..and they bought everything. :o) Called this morning and said they sold one of my fan lamps for $65. Wish I could do that! :o) Oh, and they keep calling me an artist! ;o) I always wanted to be one of those. hahaha... ...and my brother in law, yesterday told my husband "cut her some slack, she's an artist." Guess I do my best work when I am out there just squirrelin around! My son this evening was sitting in my workshop talking to me while I was working. He kept saying "me wanna be a mommy." I said, "dont you mean you want to be a daddy?" He said "nope, me wanna be a mommy" I asked him well why would he rather be a mommy than a daddy? He said..."Me wanna be a mommy, make glass!" Too Cool! ;o) T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 21:52:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:40:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "barbara elmore" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:38:19 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.123819.0> Precedence: bulk >>Tonight, when I finished my 6th panel (yes, I'm counting), I realized that I had cut and placed the glue chip **pieces** into the panel with the glue chip side on the back. But, the glue chip ** bevels ** have the glue chip side on the front. Should glue chip side on the glass match glue chip side on the bevels? << You got it right. There is no law but most glue chip is displayed with the smooth side on the primary viewing side with the exception of bevels. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. -----Original Message----- From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 6:42 PM Subject: Bevels and Glue chip matching? >Tonight, when I finished my 6th panel (yes, I'm counting), I realized >that I had cut and placed the glue chip **pieces** into the panel with >the glue chip side on the back. But, the glue chip ** bevels ** have >the glue chip side on the front. > >Should glue chip side on the glass match glue chip side on the bevels? > > >Reading this over sounds like a Laurel & Hardy routine! > >Barbara Elmore > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 22:01:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:51:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!gypsy2 From: "Sandy Gustafson" To: Subject: Re: stepping stones Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:49:52 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.184952.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Jim, What did you use to place the new glass piece in the already harden mortar and cement. Please explain the process you used. Thanks----------Sandy G. Be kind to everyone, because everyone is having a hard time. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 22:14:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:59:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!gypsy2 From: "Sandy Gustafson" To: Subject: Cement Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:58:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.185819.0> Precedence: bulk Hi ya all, I am looking for the lightest (in weight) cement that can be found. Anyone? I have an idea rolling around in this old head of mine. I will let everyone know if it works. Thanks---------Sandy G. in FL Be kind to everyone, because everyone is having a hard time. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 22:33:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:34:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: Suzanne Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:35:10 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.133510.0> References: <<1999Apr1.155659.0>> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk T Suz wrote: PASS THE TISSUE PLEASE! Suzanne, what in tarnation are you doing! I'm sitting at my puter, working away, in comes this teardrop from heaven!! Bang! O.K. now that I'm not balling anymore, I sincerely thank you for your openness, sweetness and being. You have brought many a smile to my face too even though my mascara is running now darn it :) Life is too short not to tell the ones you care about how you feel about them & I'm glad Arnold knew how you felt about him :) I've met some here at bungi who will never leave my mind, who have taught me great lessons about life and friendship. So from me to you a big ole squishy hug and to the bungians who have touched my life thanks to you too. O.k. back to work :) Pam ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 00:31:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:35:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: townsqr.com!tinkerbell From: "tinkerbell" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: newbie Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 01:36:36 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.173636.0> Precedence: bulk Am new to this list, and new to stained glass. Am taking classes, have taken four classes and have two more to go. I love it!! Have stuff ready to make my first stepping stones, although class is not on stepping stones I just fell for them the first time I saw them. I live on a small farm in the Ozarks, am an LPN, and a grandmother. Would love some info on sites with patterns, very few available locally. Wishing everyone lots of luck with all their projects. Some of it sounds very wonderful. light and love, tinkerbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 01:03:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:07:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: K See Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 02:13:08 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.20138.0> Precedence: bulk I just tried to email you and it bounced back...fatal errors...that sort of thing. Do you have a new email address? I was inquiring as to your plans for Glass Visions and E tour. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 04:15:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:16:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Suzanne" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: K See Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:14:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.11458.0> Precedence: bulk Here I am. Yes, I decided to try this free service. Didn't like AOL. So far so good. You no what they say..you get what you pay for. I'm a happy camper for now. Look forward to hearing from you. K See "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 4:12 AM Subject: K See >I just tried to email you and it bounced back...fatal errors...that sort >of thing. Do you have a new email address? > >I was inquiring as to your plans for Glass Visions and E tour. > >T Suz >-- >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 04:40:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:25:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Suzanne" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: cool stuff, sorta glass Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:22:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.12249.0> Precedence: bulk Kind of makes you giddy, doesn't it. How about giving them an "artists profile" so they can give it to the people with the greatest taste in OK? I was asked to provide one at the gallery were I have boxes and still haven't come up with one yet! K See "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 12:42 AM Subject: cool stuff, sorta glass >Things are going well with my giftshop guys. Day before yesterday, I >took some things to show them..and they bought everything. :o) Called >this morning and said they sold one of my fan lamps for $65. Wish I >could do that! :o) > >Oh, and they keep calling me an artist! ;o) I always wanted to be one >of those. hahaha... ...and my brother in law, yesterday told my husband >"cut her some slack, she's an artist." Guess I do my best work when I >am out there just squirrelin around! > >My son this evening was sitting in my workshop talking to me while I was >working. He kept saying "me wanna be a mommy." I said, "dont you mean >you want to be a daddy?" He said "nope, me wanna be a mommy" I asked >him well why would he rather be a mommy than a daddy? He said..."Me >wanna be a mommy, make glass!" Too Cool! ;o) > >T Suz > > >-- >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 04:51:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:00:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: re:stepping stone Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 06:41:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.14133.0> Precedence: bulk Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found that one of my garden stones (I don't encourage stepping on them), had a good scratch across one of the smaller pieces. So I made a big sign that said "Scratch sale", put it on the stone near the scratch and marked it substantially...and it sold quickly! (can't figure out how that scratch got there. probably got a rock or something in the padding materials when I packed at one show.) Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 06:53:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:00:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: re:stepping stone Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 06:41:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.14133.0> Precedence: bulk Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found that one of my garden stones (I don't encourage stepping on them), had a good scratch across one of the smaller pieces. So I made a big sign that said "Scratch sale", put it on the stone near the scratch and marked it substantially...and it sold quickly! (can't figure out how that scratch got there. probably got a rock or something in the padding materials when I packed at one show.) Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 07:15:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:13:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'tinkerbell'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: newbie Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:15:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.21536.0> Precedence: bulk tink, welcome. go here: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ MIke is on this list and has links to almost every place on the web. lots of good info too. LInda -----Original Message----- From: tinkerbell [SMTP:tinkerbell@townsqr.com] Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 4:37 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: newbie Am new to this list, and new to stained glass. Am taking classes, have taken four classes and have two more to go. I love it!! Have stuff ready to make my first stepping stones, although class is not on stepping stones I just fell for them the first time I saw them. I live on a small farm in the Ozarks, am an LPN, and a grandmother. Would love some info on sites with patterns, very few available locally. Wishing everyone lots of luck with all their projects. Some of it sounds very wonderful. light and love, tinkerbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 07:54:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:38:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:34:20 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr2.143420.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/1/99 9:30:44 PM, barbaraelmore@yahoo.com wrote: >Should glue chip side on the glass match glue chip side on the bevels? Good question..... a while back I was at a party and noticed that the host's windows had the same thing - glue chip glass with the smooth side "up," and glue chip bevels with the glue chip side up. It did look a little odd, but obviously you're not the only one who's doing it that way! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 08:20:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:38:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:34:18 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr2.143418.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/1/99 11:54:28 PM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: >The first thing I saw him talk about was giraffe joos. So, what *is* giraffe joos, what is it supposed to do, etc.? It sounds like something the folks at QVC might be hawking, between the spray-on hair and the cubic-zirconia replica of the Princess Diana tiara! Now Patrick, don't go whippin' out the ol' credit card just yet....... :-) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 08:26:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:16:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: tinkerbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: newbie Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:15:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.51545.0> References: <<1999Apr1.173636.0>> Precedence: bulk tinkerbell wrote: > > Am new to this list, and new to stained glass. Am taking classes, have taken > four classes and have two more to go. I love it!! Have stuff ready to make > my first stepping stones, although class is not on stepping stones I just > fell for them the first time I saw them. > I live on a small farm in the Ozarks, am an LPN, and a grandmother. Would > love some info on sites with patterns, very few available locally. > Wishing everyone lots of luck with all their projects. Some of it sounds > very wonderful. light and love, tinkerbell > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass go to http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ links page 3. there's a bunch of links for free patterns there. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 09:05:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:29:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: re: lead stretcher Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:28:21 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Shari, I'm rolling on the floor in pure chuckling form, as I can just picture you (sort of) doing the balancing act with the table and the floor!! My vise is also on the work table, I tend to give my lead little tugs until it stretches with the finial stretch breaking the lead...ALWAYS I have this surprize feeling!!!... I know it's going to happen, but when it does I'm like sayin'.... "OH???":):):)...we're done now. Decided once to bring it in the house...had no where really to put it, but since I lived in a log house the only place was on the house!!! Thanks for the smile! Cindy PS...Linda Jo, anywhere on the house can you put it???GRIN. >From Linda Jo. > > >Linda Jo: I have mine on one end of my table, and then stretch the came >clear across the table. I actually brace myself while I am pulling by >putting one foot up on the table leg, which keep the table from being pulled >towards me. Does that make sense? Anyway, when it does break, I tend to go >flying. Otherwise, it works great! > >S > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 09:31:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:37:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:40:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.1406.0> Precedence: bulk I have never heard anyone else ever say anything about >giraffe joos. Arnold couldnt beleive that everyone didnt use it. ;o) >Well, I have used it every day since I got it...and man...it is almost >too easy. Kwik Clean too. This stuff is great. > I remember hearing about this stuff a year or so ago, but I don't even remember what it was used for. Also, I remember asking my local supplier about it and they'd never heard of it. Would you mind telling us again what Giraffe Joos is and where one can purchase it? Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 09:36:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:43:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "tinkerbell" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: newbie Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:41:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.14115.0> Precedence: bulk Welcome Tinkerbell. There are ton's of sites out there...here are a few http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/links2.htm http://www.dodgestudio.com/links.htm http://www.penrose.com/glass/ http://www.gate.net/~heyou/glaslink.htm from these sites you will find oddles of great things. For patterns you can get many from the suppliers for starters. I've check out every site and have bookmarked the one's I go to a lot. K See "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp -----Original Message----- From: tinkerbell To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 3:39 AM Subject: newbie >Am new to this list, and new to stained glass. Am taking classes, have taken >four classes and have two more to go. I love it!! Have stuff ready to make >my first stepping stones, although class is not on stepping stones I just >fell for them the first time I saw them. >I live on a small farm in the Ozarks, am an LPN, and a grandmother. Would >love some info on sites with patterns, very few available locally. >Wishing everyone lots of luck with all their projects. Some of it sounds >very wonderful. light and love, tinkerbell > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 09:52:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:52:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Where are all the Bungians? Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:52:18 PST Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi there, I'd like to add myself onto the list for the who live where project. Glenna Rand - San Jose, CA Where do we view everyone's info? -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 09:56:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:18:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: newbie Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:15:50 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.231550.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Tinker, Here is a page where they list many places to find free patterns. http://members.aol.com/sgbds/free.html This ought to be a good start, then you can use a search term in a search engine, I have put one below, that I have a book mark for. I like using SavySearch. http://www.savvysearch.com/search?q=stained+glass+patterns&op=p&cat= Sincerely, Bud Britt Unity Church of Tustin computerministry@unitytustin.org http://www.unitytustin.org 14402 South Prospect Ave. Tustin, CA 92780 714-730-3444 -----Original Message----- From: tinkerbell To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 12:40 AM Subject: newbie |Am new to this list, and new to stained glass. Am taking classes, have taken |four classes and have two more to go. I love it!! Have stuff ready to make |my first stepping stones, although class is not on stepping stones I just |fell for them the first time I saw them. |I live on a small farm in the Ozarks, am an LPN, and a grandmother. Would |love some info on sites with patterns, very few available locally. |Wishing everyone lots of luck with all their projects. Some of it sounds |very wonderful. light and love, tinkerbell | | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 10:16:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:03:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Happy Easter Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:03:28 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi all!! Just wishing you all a very Happy Easter. In a world of so much saddness and hardship and wars, every little bit helps make the world a better place and that's where you guys come in! I have seen so much caring and sharing since I've joined and it really warms my soul. Thanks for allowing me to be apart of this group. Best wishes!!! Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 10:27:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:36:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: re:stepping stone Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:34:16 -0800 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990402083416.009ab480@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr2.14133.0>> Precedence: bulk At 06:41 AM 4/2/99 -0500, Dorothy wrote: >Last year i unpacked at a *crack* fair [clip] lol...I'm sorry...this just doesn't fit my image of you as a new Grandma ;-) Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 10:45:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:52:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Re: lead stretcher Diagram Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:39:28 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.03928.0> Precedence: bulk I have posted a diagram for a lead stretcher that I saw in a old magazine. For someone who can use a hand saw, and a drill, and a screwdriver, it ought to be pretty simple to make one, for real cheap. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ Sincerely, Bud Britt Unity Church of Tustin computerministry@unitytustin.org http://www.unitytustin.org 14402 South Prospect Ave. Tustin, CA 92780 714-730-3444 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 10:59:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:21:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Thanks to all! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:22:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.32259.0> Precedence: bulk In case y'all haven't heard this recently, I just wanted to say thanks. It's so nice to have "friends" out there with the same interests as me. Even better, it's great to have a place to turn for a quick answer to some dumb question or other. I've been doing glass for a couple of years, and I'm a complete addict. It's my hobby, my therapy, my escape, etc. I spend most evenings and all weekend long in the garage with my "books-on-tape" going and just glassing up a storm! But I don't know anyone else in the area who shares my passion. Also have nowhere to turn for Q&As except the local vendors, and they are a bit "snobbish" with information. (I.e., pay for another class and we'll tell you..." attitude.) So I appreciate everyone's willingness to share and answer questions (without judgment!) and help a beginner along. Shari in SLC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 11:23:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:16:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stepping Stone & the fix Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:16:29 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.11629.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk IMHO, Two solutions exist for the stepping stone fix. 1. You can "fix it" by chipping it out. Yikes! 2. Scream, cuss and have a glass of wine. I would go with number 2 and have done so successfully a few times. After your second glass of wine the crack looks much better by the way. After the 3rd glass, well who cares! If you pour your own stones, sometimes during the curing process your glass will crack. How do you prevent it from happening or lessen it from happening? Well what you have is a shrinkage problem I would say. And who likes to have one of those ;o I believe it all has to do with the mixture. If you add too much water you get shrinkage and your glass cracks. Don't use any more water than you have to and when your first pouring your own this will be an experimental process until you find the right formula. It doesn't matter if you use diamondcrete or your own formula for stones the concept is still the same. That has been the hardest part of stones for me, the right formula. Same goes with the way I make my stones. I use pre made pavers and grout. The grouting part was the hardest. It wasn't the design, the glass cutting etc. it was the grout mixture part. A concrete company when loading a truck will take a test sample to ensure the pour will be good and the right one for the job. Different jobs require different concrete mixtures I believe. So they test it to make sure the mixture is correct and will withstand the job. Same with stones, your pour or mixture must be perfect. One of the best sites on the net about mortar is Cole's place. http://www.gi.alaska.edu/crc/staff/cole/mine/index.html He really knows what he is talking about and he's a nice guy too :) If you have any questions that he doesn't answer on his pages you surely can e-mail him and I'm sure he would answer you politely and promptly. Tell him I sent you his way if your reluctant to e-mail him. But get your mixture "right" and your cracking will lessen considerably. Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 11:37:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:33:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: stepping stone/crackfair Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:28:11 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr2.172811.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/2/99 7:52:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, shad@mail2.nai.net writes: << Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found >> YIKES!!!!! We have crack fairs in Philly, but everything comes in little vials.... Maureen....still chuckling ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 12:01:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:55:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: crackfairs..... Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:51:34 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr2.175134.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/2/99 7:52:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, shad@mail2.nai.net writes: << Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found >> YIKES!!!!! We have crack fairs in Philly, but everything comes in little vials.... Maureen....still chuckling ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 12:13:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:08:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass From: "Molly Keys" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG; blue tutu sighting Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:10:04 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.6104.0> Precedence: bulk I know there was much concern for Patrick before St. Patrick's day. I want to set all minds at ease and let you know I saw him yesterday and I'm not sure but I believe he was looking for the Easter Bunny (so they could co-ordinate their outfits). Bye the way he does look good in blue. Happy Easter to all, Molly ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 12:49:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:36:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Shari Higbee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:41:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.64126.0> References: <<1999Apr2.1406.0>> Precedence: bulk Shari Higbee wrote: > > I have never heard anyone else ever say anything about > >giraffe joos. Arnold couldnt beleive that everyone didnt use it. ;o) > >Well, I have used it every day since I got it...and man...it is almost > >too easy. Kwik Clean too. This stuff is great. > > > > I remember hearing about this stuff a year or so ago, but I don't even > remember what it was used for. Also, I remember asking my local supplier > about it and they'd never heard of it. Would you mind telling us again what > Giraffe Joos is and where one can purchase it? > > Shari > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass The bottle says it is a hydrophobic :o) polymer coating. You use it instead of wax or polish. Says it lasts for looooonngg time. Then to clean you just wipe with Damp cloth. You just wipe it on with a cloth, let it dry then buff. Easy as pie. I love it. Arnold was the only one I know for sure that carried it. If you would like, I bet Mary-Anne his wife would be of help finding it, and I could ask her. Not in a hurry to bring it up with her though. I'd like to give her a little time. Dont know what she is going to do with his business, or if one of his kids might take it over. They may all be pretty well established as I beleive the youngest was 42. The bottle only says "Another great product from The Glass Giraffe". Pa. Suzanne says she thinks they are in Florida. Any Florida Bungians know any more about it? I still polish like I used to if I am not going to patina...but with patina..you betcha I use the giraffe joos! Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 13:16:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:45:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: "Kathe R. Mc Donald" To: "'Glenna Rand'" , "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Where are all the Bungians? Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:50:14 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.65014.0> Organization: SOM - Office of Curricular Support Precedence: bulk Kathe McDonald - Sacramento, CA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 13:25:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:46:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Fri Apr 2 10:45:06 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.8236.0> Precedence: bulk sparks here is what my catalog says "a hydro-phobic polymer coating for art glass that leaves no residue of any kind and lasts for years. Used properly, it virtually eliminates flux corrosion and oxidation from all types of stained glass projects and out performs wax-type products 10 to 1. quite simply the best finish to use when it really matters." any other questions? oh yeah, comes in 8 and 16oz okey dokey? debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source Taurus II Ring Saw $399.00 plus shipping 1-888-488-9616 -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos > >In a message dated 4/1/99 11:54:28 PM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: > >>The first thing I saw him talk about was giraffe joos. > >So, what *is* giraffe joos, what is it supposed to do, etc.? It sounds like >something the folks at QVC might be hawking, between the spray-on hair and >the cubic-zirconia replica of the Princess Diana tiara! > >Now Patrick, don't go whippin' out the ol' credit card just yet....... :-) > > >Sparks > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 13:50:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:15:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Sandy Gustafson" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Cement Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:21:59 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.12159.0> Precedence: bulk What sort of strength and wear characteristics? Cement as in a stepping stone or came cement? The way to make cement lighter weight is to add what are usually called "micro-balloons". Looks like a powder or fine sand. But they are really little tiny plastic balloons filled with air. They will work in cement same as fine sand, but they weigh almost nothing. They are almost as strong as sand. Cement made this way will wear almost as well as regular cement though I have noticed it developing a smooth shine in heavy traffic areas. I wish I was near my shop so I could give you exact brand names, but I'm not. I get mine direct from a local epoxy manufacturer - they are commonly used to make extremely light weight epoxy laminates for ultra-light aircraft. I know Lee Valley Tools catalogue has them. Movie prop houses use them to make light weight "stones" for applications which will be walked on (i.e. Styrofoam will not work). A large cement supplier probably would carry it. Possibly the big home improvement centres might have it, but I do not know. You mix micro-balloons in the same proportions (by volume) to the cement as you would fine sand or any other "filler" material. Of course, you pay a higher price for special stuff like this. So you will probably want to figure your costs to decide if it is worth it. -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Gustafson To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 11:20 PM Subject: Cement > Hi ya all, > >I am looking for the lightest (in weight) cement that can be found. Anyone? >I have an idea rolling around in this old head of mine. >I will let everyone know if it works. > >Thanks---------Sandy G. in FL > > >Be kind to everyone, because everyone is having a hard time. > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 14:09:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:16:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Linda Jo Letscher Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:04:54 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.21454.0> References: <<1999Apr1.111345.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Linda Jo, I have my lead vice on the end of an 8-foot table. This is just longer than the calme that I have supplied. I put one foot behind me, my hip against the table edge and pull firmly. Bob D. has pointed out several times (and at least once to me) that you can over-stretch the calme, which actually weakens the lead. You can observe this as a kind of alligator skin pattern on the surface of the calme. Second. I use a large (8" pair of pliers) to draw the calme. This is large enough to grip the calme easily and still get it comfortably into my hand. The action of holding the handles of the pliers in you hand(s) while pulling works the same way as the lead vice. The harder you pull the tighter the pliers grip. To clamp the free end in vice grips is, in my opinion, asking for trouble through breakage - not so much the calme as your own bones as you fall. Firm, steady drawing of the calme toward yourself is the rule. You aren't trying to get more length out of the calme, you are trying to straighten it. After you have straightened it, dress the leaves by using your stopping knife to press the leaves of the calme down on the table top. This helps to temper the lead and makes it easier to lift the glass into the channel, especially on round lead calme. Steve In message <1999Apr1.111345.0@?>, Linda Jo Letscher writes >I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of >my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I >move the workbench. >So then I took it out on a flower bed that is brick and the small lip on the >stretche is enough to grab and pull but if I even give it the least little >angle up off it comes. So do any of you have a suggestion where to put it? >What I did do was I screwed it to a big tree in my front yard for now. I am >using vise grips for the other end which works ok, sometimes it bites a >little hard into the lead and breaks but oh well...!! >Linda Jo > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 14:29:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:20:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: About the Updated Who's Where in Bungi-Land list Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:20:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.92029.0> Precedence: bulk Wonderful, Steve, what a great reference. Thanks, Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 16:13:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:39:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Links Pages for Patterns, Ideas, Etc. Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:26:27 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.42627.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.gi.alaska.edu/crc/staff/cole/mine/studios.html http://aries27.uwaterloo.ca/nglass/index.html Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 16:35:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:40:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Las Vegas Convention??? Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:27:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.42738.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone know when the stained glass convention in Las Vegas is??? Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 17:17:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:57:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Molly Keys Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG; blue tutu sighting Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:59:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.95926.0> References: <<1999Apr2.6104.0>> Precedence: bulk Molly Keys wrote: > > I know there was much concern for Patrick before St. Patrick's day. I want > to set all minds at ease and let you know I saw him yesterday and I'm not > sure but I believe he was looking for the Easter Bunny (so they could > co-ordinate their outfits). Bye the way he does look good in blue. > > Happy Easter to all, > Molly > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I was laughing with my gift shop guys the other day discussing how I could dress them up! ;o) Told them about Patricks Tutu...and they all want to meet him! lol..before I left one bent down and asked me quietly if my friend in Texas was really a drag queen! I laughed sooo hard. This guy is such a hoot! Think we will end up good friends. T Suz They had me rolling. Before I left -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 17:47:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:04:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Little quick Challenge Project,,, Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:16:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.41626.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Everyone, On the page listed below is a little quick challenge project, took me about 2-3 hours to do, it is a Escher optical illusion, see if you can make the cuts without using a grinder. Did all of them expect one, the first try, that one took three try's, and it was the smallest one, and the one that looked the simplest, it helped me to learn more about glass. I used scrap to make mine, it's not that big, basically a suncatcher. I got the design from a font that I found on the net. Brought it into Corel, resized it, and printed. To make it faster downloading, I shrunk it, my finished one is about the size of a 8.5x11 sheet of paper. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 18:04:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:19:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: lead stretcher Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:27:13 +0000 Message-ID: <199904022219.RAA13465@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > you can > over-stretch the calme, which actually weakens the lead. I've been keeping mum waiting for someone to point that out. If the came breaks, you've pulled too hard. You've missed the point of came stretching entirely. It isn't a subset of the Olympics. I should have known that Steve would be the one to say it. Perhaps the maxim should be, "One must keep calm whilst stretching calme." Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 18:37:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:53:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: crackfairs..... Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 17:52:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.125230.0> References: <<1999Apr2.175134.0>> Precedence: bulk Okay, you try to type at 6:30 am! BTW, I'm online at 5:45 pm! Dorothy Mosfunland@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/2/99 7:52:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, > shad@mail2.nai.net writes: > > << Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found >> > > YIKES!!!!! We have crack fairs in Philly, but everything comes in little > vials.... > > Maureen....still chuckling > ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 19:12:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:02:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: stepping stone Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 18:00:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.13029.0> References: <<1999Apr2.14133.0>> Precedence: bulk Family Account wrote: > Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found that one of my garden .......................................craft!!!!! Okay? > stones (I don't encourage stepping on them), had a good scratch across > one of the smaller pieces. So I made a big sign that said "Scratch > sale", put it on the stone near the scratch and marked it down (left out a word too) > substantially...and it sold quickly! (can't figure out how that scratch > got there. probably got a rock or something in the padding materials > when I packed at one show.) > > Dorothy It's been a long week (but a good one...you all know that the University of Connecticut men's basketball team won the National Championship, too, this week, don't you?) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 21:23:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:46:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Myna Bird Pattern Needed Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:42:30 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr3.14230.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Guys, I would like to make a myna bird for a dying woman. She had one for years and I would like to hang it from the ceiling on a perch, close to her bed so she may view it. I do not own any bird books and can't see myself doing anymore birds in the near future. Does anyone have a pattern handy that could be scanned or sent snail mailed to me? I am told that the bird is basically black with a yellow or orange beak and a mask under its eyes extending to the side of its head. If anyone has a color photo, I could draw my own pattern from it, no problem. Thanks in advance to anyone in bungiland who can help me. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 22:00:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:21:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberportal.net!dmj From: "Dean Johnson" To: "Bungi List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:18:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.161824.0> References: <<1999Apr2.64126.0>> Precedence: bulk >Suzanne says she thinks they are in Florida. Any Florida Bungians > know any more about it? The Glass Giraffe is run by a great guy, Jeff Eckes. He is a regular on the hotglass list (hotglass@list.bb.net). I don't know if Jeff has a website, but here is his email address: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net Drop him a line! Elizabeth Johnson dmj@cyberportal.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 22:27:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:28:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Lead vs foil Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 21:20:05 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990502212005.006ad818@scci.net> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Here's another newbie question. I have noticed that many of you seem to do leaded panels as opposed to foiled panels. The lady who gave my intro class was very biased toward foil and didn't even seem too interested in discussing lead. Is there anything I can do in lead that I can't do in foil? When would I want to use one instead of the other or is it just personal preference? I am guessing that a leaded panel would stand up better when exposed to the elements... Just wondering, Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 23:18:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:16:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:13:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Apr2.111326.0> Precedence: bulk I, too, do not have the room to stretch the full length of lead came. I solved the problem by attaching the stretcher to the end of my work bench, but I **cut** the lead came in half before I stretch it. Dealing with half the length seems to solve my problem of where to lay the came to keep it straight after it is stretched. Barbara _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 23:33:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:19:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: stretching lead Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:16:30 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk So if you stretch lead came and it breaks at where you held our pliers at, (at the end)... you've gone too far? Doesn't happen all the time but sometimes it does. I've always thought it was from holding on to the pliers too tight and stretching the came narrow at the pliers, hence it snaps there. Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 23:46:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:21:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: stepping stones Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:21:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.172122.0> Precedence: bulk Sandy G. asked, >>Hi Jim, >>What did you use to place the new glass piece in the already >>harden mortar and cement. Please explain the process you >>used. >>Thanks----------Sandy G. I hate reliving this experience. I won't do it again. But since you asked, I chipped the glass out with the screwdriver tip, then chipped enough of the = underlying cement to allow room for a new piece of glass and some silicone cement, = clear silicone obvoiusly since the piece I was replacing was clear irridized, a dragonfly wing, Now the next and most important step was to threaten all grandchildren with bodily harm if they ran over the steps again, just kidding. Actually, I have been lying, I carefully instructed my wife in = the manly art of concrete chipping and she chipped out the glass and cement. Hate to admit that. So far the replacement is still in place and the kids run over the stones anyway. I highly = recommend never calling these things stepping stones. Advertise them as garden decorations, or garden stones. You will decrease calls for replacing broken glass, calls for fixing broken legs from slipping = on wet stones and probably add ten years to the life span of the stone and reduce the likelihood = of old friends never speaking to you again.. Enough. Jim Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Friday, April 02, 1999 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:12:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:29:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: crackfairs..... Date: Fri Apr 2 21:29:21 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.19721.0> Precedence: bulk see, you wouldn't be so affected if you hadn't done all those crack fairs! debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 -----Original Message----- From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 9:47 PM Subject: Re: crackfairs..... >Okay, you try to type at 6:30 am! BTW, I'm online at 5:45 pm! >Dorothy > >Mosfunland@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 4/2/99 7:52:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, >> shad@mail2.nai.net writes: >> >> << Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found >> >> >> YIKES!!!!! We have crack fairs in Philly, but everything comes in little >> vials.... >> >> Maureen....still chuckling >> ---- > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:12:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:06:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: glass@intrastar.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass notes Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 21:06:17 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.13617.0> References: <<002701be7d8c$cc526d40$3c669cd1@default>> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk Whoa, cool Bob! Great site! Thanks! Pam Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > Go to: http://www.glassnotes.com/index.html for hot glass info > including a chart for Bullseye glass, compatability tests, a hot > glass E-mail list, etc.. Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass: have class. -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:12:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:14:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Subject: Myna bird Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:12:34 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.141234.0> Precedence: bulk I just now read the text that came with the myna bird pic. Made my blood run cold. Never know what a search engine is going to turn up. http://www.anusha.com/mynabird.htm Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:13:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:48:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Shirley's List" Subject: Glass notes Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:45:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.124526.0> Precedence: bulk Go to: http://www.glassnotes.com/index.html for hot glass info including a chart for Bullseye glass, compatability tests, a hot glass E-mail list, etc.. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:14:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:05:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: Myna Bird Pattern Needed Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:01:13 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.14113.0> Precedence: bulk Try: http://www.anusha.com/mynabird.htm I have downloaded the pic and will send to you by seperate message. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:19:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 00:54:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Melissa Hall" Subject: Re: Lead vs foil Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 00:18:36 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.161836.0> Precedence: bulk >>When would I want to use one instead of the other or is it just personal preference? << Older classic designs seem to enjoy the regularity of lead. Geometric designs and bevel clusters and bevel borders are also thought by many to be best done in lead. Designs with fine detail look good in foil. 3-D items are mostly best done in foil. Sometimes both methods are combined in one panel, so........ the borders would be lead and the roses in the middle foil. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:27:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 01:07:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: , Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:12:12 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.151212.0> Precedence: bulk So who is the supplier??? Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: daver!one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 01:42 PM Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos |sparks |here is what my catalog says | "a hydro-phobic polymer coating for art glass that leaves no residue of |any kind and lasts for years. Used properly, it virtually eliminates flux |corrosion and oxidation from all types of stained glass projects and out |performs wax-type products 10 to 1. quite simply the best finish to use |when it really matters." |any other questions? |oh yeah, comes in 8 and 16oz |okey dokey? | |debbie taylor |kleeman@one.net |http://www.taylordexpressions.com |your complete stained glass supply source |Taurus II Ring Saw $399.00 plus shipping |1-888-488-9616 |-----Original Message----- |From: Witchdoc3@aol.com |To: glass@bungi.com |Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 11:32 AM |Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos | | |> |>In a message dated 4/1/99 11:54:28 PM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: |> |>>The first thing I saw him talk about was giraffe joos. |> |>So, what *is* giraffe joos, what is it supposed to do, etc.? It sounds like |>something the folks at QVC might be hawking, between the spray-on hair and |>the cubic-zirconia replica of the Princess Diana tiara! |> |>Now Patrick, don't go whippin' out the ol' credit card just yet....... :-) |> |> |>Sparks |> |>---- |>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass |> | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:29:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 04:12:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: barbara elmore , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 04:09:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Apr2.20955.0> Precedence: bulk Barb, thats exactly what I do and was going to suggest, you beat me to it. I rarely need a full length of 6 foot lead at one time. Rick === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:33:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 07:47:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!gypsy2 From: "Sandy Gustafson" To: Subject: Re: stepping stones Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:19:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.51945.0> References: <<1999Apr2.172122.0>> Precedence: bulk > and some silicone cement, = Jim Kelly said, Now the next and most > important step was to threaten > all grandchildren with bodily > harm if they ran over the steps > again, Did you really? just kidding. > Actually, I have been lying, Now comes the truth. > I carefully instructed my wife in = the manly art of concrete chipping > and she chipped out the glass > and cement. Hate to admit that. Do you think I could get my husband to do that for me? Not. Your wife is a keeper. > So far the replacement is still > in place and the kids run over the > stones anyway. I highly = > > recommend never calling these > things stepping stones. I learned this when first showing the stones. People kept saying, "They are too pretty to step on." From them on I called them garden stones. For decoration only. > Advertise them as garden > decorations, or garden stones. > You will decrease calls for > replacing broken glass, calls for > fixing broken legs from slipping = > > on wet stones and probably add > ten years to the life span of the > stone and reduce the likelihood = > > of old friends never speaking to you > again.. Thanks Jim for your remeberance and advice. Sandy G. in ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:33:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:55:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sk.sympatico.ca!dbarker From: "The Barker Family" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Myna Bird Pattern Needed Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:51:52 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.45152.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Lenore~ Here's a whole bunch of mynah birds for you... http://www.mynahbird.com/multimedia/photos/photos.html Good luck.... : ) Dawn Marie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 11:47:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:58:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Melissa Hall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Lead vs foil Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:55:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.8550.0> Precedence: bulk Melissa, stained glass windows rarely have to stand up to the elements these days..... there are, however, various considerations when deciding whether to use lead or foil, most of them either practical or aesthetic. If you've designed a window that = is very organic, = such as intricate and numerous flowers, you might decide that foil is a better choice because it is easier to manipulate around all those curved and little pieces of glass. If you designed a very geometric window, lead would give you crisper, straighter lines than foil, and you could incorporate various lead widths thus adding another design element to your windows. Furthermore, a cemented window would also give your mor= e structural integrity in a design with lots of straight lines. We sometimes use both= lead and foil in the same window.... a very nice effect when used appropriately. And we often use various widths of lead in the same window. About 90% of our work is in lead and that may be because we do a lot of liturgical work, which is almost always lead. Oh,= and another thing to consider is the style of your window... if it's a Victorian, lead woul= d be indicated... if a Tiffany look, then copper foil might be more appropriate. Hope that= helps. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 12:02:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:05:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:07:25 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.7725.0> Precedence: bulk mmmmmmm cubic zirconians now were talkin'. Tried the instant hair thing and looked like an 8 ball from the local billiard parlor. Think I'll stick to the carnuba wax for the head....smile -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos > >In a message dated 4/1/99 11:54:28 PM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: > >>The first thing I saw him talk about was giraffe joos. > >So, what *is* giraffe joos, what is it supposed to do, etc.? It sounds like >something the folks at QVC might be hawking, between the spray-on hair and >the cubic-zirconia replica of the Princess Diana tiara! > >Now Patrick, don't go whippin' out the ol' credit card just yet....... :-) > > >Sparks > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 12:15:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:40:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Linda Jo Letscher" , "bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:41:31 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.64131.0> Precedence: bulk Linda Jo, Try hanging it on your rafters. Make a frame of 2x4s connected to to the rafters at a comfortable height, attach it. Once attached you can pull down instead of horizontally. I've been planning on trying this myself. Seems like it would be safer also. -----Original Message----- From: Linda Jo Letscher To: bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 4:08 PM Subject: lead stretcher >I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of >my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I >move the workbench. >So then I took it out on a flower bed that is brick and the small lip on the >stretche is enough to grab and pull but if I even give it the least little >angle up off it comes. So do any of you have a suggestion where to put it? >What I did do was I screwed it to a big tree in my front yard for now. I am >using vise grips for the other end which works ok, sometimes it bites a >little hard into the lead and breaks but oh well...!! >Linda Jo > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 12:23:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:14:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Molly Keys" , "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG; blue tutu sighting Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:16:08 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.7168.0> Precedence: bulk You caught me Molly. I was looking for the Easter Bunny to make Hasenpfher (sp)....mmmmmmmm -----Original Message----- From: Molly Keys To: Bungi Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 2:32 PM Subject: NG; blue tutu sighting >I know there was much concern for Patrick before St. Patrick's day. I want >to set all minds at ease and let you know I saw him yesterday and I'm not >sure but I believe he was looking for the Easter Bunny (so they could >co-ordinate their outfits). Bye the way he does look good in blue. > >Happy Easter to all, >Molly > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 12:38:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:35:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio # 98 Rachel Ammann Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:36:43 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.73643.0> Precedence: bulk My name is Rachel Ammann & I live in St Louis, Missouri. I have had an art glass & jewelry business for about ten years now. I am formally trained as a master jeweler, including goldsmithing, diamond grading, and colored stone work. I also have degrees in engineering so I am generally good at technical problems. I took up stained glass as a hobby about 20 years ago, but lost interest after I had more stained glass lamps and windows than would fit in my house. I have been fusing for about ten years. Started with jewelry pieces and have moved up to big bowls and plates. Fusing is a pretty technical subject (there are so many things that can go wrong) so it suits me pretty well. I have been trained in flameworking but never enjoyed it very much. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 12:58:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:45:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio #99 Eleni Drafts Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:43:39 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.74339.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Patrick, I definitely don't want misery to befall me so I will make an attempt to write a somewhat interesting (hopefully) bio about a very uninteresting person. My name is Elleni (e-lane-e). It is a Greek name even though we are not Greek. My aunt was dating a Greek doctor when I was born and he suggested the name. I am the third of six children with two older sisters and three younger brothers. My father was a policeman for 28 years - so I had to be very good growing up. I married my wonderful husband, Robert, at the tender age of 18. He was in the Air Force and we moved around a good bit for the next 20 years. Then we settled back near our home town in South Carolina. We will celebrate our 36th wedding anniversary in May. We have three children - a son in Georgia, a daughter in Tennessee and another son in Ohio. We also have two beautiful grand-daughters, Kandis 12 and Trish 11. Over the past 30+ years I have tried a number of hobbies starting with crocheting, knitting, cake decorating, cross stitch, needlepoint, etc. At the ripe old age of 45 I decided to try my hand at painting. Bob Ross on the educational tv channel made it look soooooo easy. I'm not great at it, but I do enjoy it and people seem to love to get my paintings for gifts. This past January I was visiting my sister who just moved to Florida. We were watching HGTV and some woman was on there doing a glass mosaic around a picture frame. We immediately looked up a glass shop and went to buy some scrap glass to do a mosaic with. (This was two days after rushing out to buy stuff to make envelopes with because they had done a segment on envelope making. I've made a total of two envelopes.) We did a small candle holder with nuggets and didn't much like the mess the grout made. I had bought enough scrap glass to do a bathroom window for my hubby's bathroom so I felt like I "had to do it" when I got home. My mother-in-law saw it and wanted one for her bathroom. So I pulled out our local phone book to locate a glass shop. A few weeks later I stopped in only to find out she doesn't sell her scrap glass - she gives it to students to practice on between classes. Students????? Classes?????? I ended up staying three hours that day and taking my first class. I love Lois's one-on-one teaching. You go whenever you want and stay as long as you want. I've done a lot of projects since then. It is truly a passion with me. I would love to be able to sell some of my work one day. I have learned so much since I've been on this list. I thank you all for your help when I've needed it. So many times a minor comment one of you makes can make a big difference to a beginner. Especially when we don't yet know the questions to ask. So thanks again to all of you. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 13:09:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:56:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Artist's giving back Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:57:58 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.75758.0> Precedence: bulk There is an idea in the Asian culture that roughly speaking translates to "Giving Back". Basically, as I understand it, because you have been graced with life, you must pass on something. This Thursday I will be hosting an Auction to raise funds for the local Public Television Station. I contacted some of our local artisans and asked for a donated piece. All were forthcoming, I would like to thank, Molly Keys, Marti Woodard, and Judy Novak (and of course the girls at Glass and Goodies) for taking the time and expense to help. Additionally, I contacted artists from other media and they to are going to donate. Artisans are very special people. These are the kind of people that are on our list. Caring, busy people who give back. On a business note I will be describing the process and the expense of materials. This might help customers understand the cost in time and materials it takes to produce a work of art. PS: They frowned upon the idea of me wearing my TuTu. What a bunch of conservatives. Hmmmmm maybe today I'll get my ear pierced and put a cubic zicornian in it. Happy Easter to All. Happy Spring to all others. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 13:32:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:39:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Cindy Pesonen Subject: Re: stretching lead Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:31:28 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.223128.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Cindy, there are two possibilities. 1 - you are holding the pliers too tight 2- that as you guess you are pulling too much. Stiff lead may stretch only an inch or two. If I pull really hard I can get my soft 1/2 inch lead to stretch about 10 inches, but that comes close to failure of the calme. So both your suggestions may be right. Steve In message , Cindy Pesonen writes >So if you stretch lead came and it breaks at where you held our pliers at, >(at the end)... you've gone too far? >Doesn't happen all the time but sometimes it does. I've always thought it >was from holding on to the pliers too tight and stretching the came narrow >at the pliers, hence it snaps there. >Cindy > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 14:00:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:55:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: NG; edible Easter bunny Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:01:10 +0000 Message-ID: <199904032053.PAA26929@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > You caught me Molly. I was looking for the Easter Bunny to make > Hasenpfher (sp)....mmmmmmmm I had to smile. My son and I were in a pet store once, just looking. A rabbit in a cage intended to be sold as a pet, I guess. My son and I were chatting. I observed that it would be delicious on a bed of rice with mushrooms and sour cream. Turned slightly to my right only to discover that I'd been overheard by a woman and her young daughter. They were horrified. Shocked, ah say, shocked! Well, heck. I've raised rabbits (and chickens) to eat, not pet! I know for a fact that meat doesn't materialize in this life complete with Saran wrap on a styrofoam tray. Lots of people apparently don't realize that. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 14:57:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:51:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: microsoft.com!a-damont From: "Damon Torgerson (Solutions IQ)" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: seattle glass artist Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:50:24 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.55024.0> Precedence: bulk Hello I'm writing this for my friend, I am looking for a glass artist in, I think, the greater Seattle area. He has been featured on the Discovery Channel. I don't recall his name, company, or anything else other than the fact that he has a patch over one eye. He also has curly fuzzy hair. She would love to visit his studio and watch him work. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Damon Damon Torgerson MSN A&B (425) 703 2255 x.22942 - office (425) 985 6233 - wireless ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 15:26:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:19:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Rachel Amman bio Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 13:51:18 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.55118.0> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Rachel, I grew up in StLouis, west County actually.. altho I now live in Northern Idaho. Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 15:42:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:40:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Giraffe goos Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:45:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.104526.0> Precedence: bulk I emailed Jeff Eckes, producer of Giraffe Joos. He sent me this url as a place where Giraffe Joos can be found. http://www.glasswarehouse.com/ All you supplies suppliers on list could always carry some. I can give you Jeffs phone number if you are interested in carrying it. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 15:59:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:10:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberhighway.net!specfam From: Sprecher To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: polarized film Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 15:06:29 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.7629.0> Precedence: bulk I am trying to find a place to buy some polarized film to make my own stress testers for fused glass. I would appreciate any help. Thank you. Lynda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 16:49:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:49:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Pkelly" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Artist's giving back Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:46:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.134625.0> Precedence: bulk We give to numerous charities on a regular basis, but one of our faves is= the public tv art auction every April.... not only is it a good cause, your friends and= family get to see your work on the tube! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 17:01:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:58:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Damon Torgerson (Solutions IQ)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: seattle glass artist Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:56:41 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.135641.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Damon Torgerson (Solutions IQ)" > I don't recall his name, company, or anything else other than the fact that he has a patch over on= e eye. He also has curly fuzzy hair. < Um, I think the name is something like Stale Pachouli....who said that!? = = I mean Dale Chihuly! All this snow must be making me feel a tad irreverant! Albert Lewis can = probably tell you whether his studio is open to the public and if some of= his assistants would be willing to demonstrate to a guest. Best regards, Dani G. www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 17:19:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:20:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Sprecher Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: polarized film Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 19:17:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.141757.0> References: <<1999Apr3.7629.0>> Precedence: bulk Sprecher wrote: > > I am trying to find a place to buy some polarized film to make my own > stress testers for fused glass. I would appreciate any help. Thank > you. > > Lynda > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i don't know if they have a site, probably do, try edmund scientifics. they have that kind of crazy stuff. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 17:53:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:53:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!normglass From: norm hanson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: polarized film and Re: failure notice Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:55:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Apr3.8556.0> Precedence: bulk --- MAILER-DAEMON@mailhost.cyberhighway.net wrote: > Hi. This is the qmail-send program at > mailhost.cyberhighway.net. > I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to > the following addresses. > This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it > didn't work out. > > : > Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1) > > --- Below this line is a copy of the message. > > Return-Path: > Received: (qmail 21529 invoked from network); 3 Apr > 1999 17:50:44 -0700 > Received: from smtp1.cyberhighway.net (209.161.0.33) > by spool2.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 > 17:50:44 -0700 > Received: (qmail 21749 invoked from network); 3 Apr > 1999 17:50:42 -0700 > Received: from web704.mail.yahoo.com (128.11.23.24) > by smtp2.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 > 17:50:42 -0700 > Message-ID: > <19990404005214.23496.rocketmail@web704.mail.yahoo.com> > Received: from [206.124.71.91] by > web704.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:52:14 PST > Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:52:14 -0800 (PST) > From: norm hanson > Subject: Re: polarized film > To: Sprecher > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > www.edmundscientific.com > (edmund scientific corp) > (or some variation!!! - search on "dogpile" if this > is not exactly > right) > > --- Sprecher wrote: > > I am trying to find a place to buy some polarized > > film to make my own > > stress testers for fused glass. I would > appreciate > > any help. Thank > > you. > > > > Lynda > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: > > glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: > > glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 18:08:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:07:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: seattle glass artist Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:02:52 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr4.1252.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/3/99 5:58:20 PM, a-damont@microsoft.com wrote: >I am looking for a glass artist in, I think, the greater Seattle area. He >has been featured on the Discovery Channel. I don't recall his name, >company, or anything else other than the fact that he has a patch over one >eye. He also has curly fuzzy hair. That can only be the legendary Dale Chihuly. Check him out at (where else?): http://www.chihuly.com/ My son is visiting me this week...... I think maybe one day we'll just motor on down to Wilmington, DE and see the "Baskets" exhibit.......... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 18:18:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:11:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Happy holidays! Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:08:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.15817.0> Precedence: bulk Wishing everyone a wonderful Easter and Passover.... we're headed home to= make = Easter hags (ugly eggs) for 14 nieces and nephews! Best to all, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 18:24:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:25:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: "Damon Torgerson (Solutions IQ)" Subject: Re: seattle glass artist Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:15:14 +0000 Message-ID: <199904040107.UAA01034@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I am looking for a glass artist in, I think, the greater Seattle > area. He has been featured on the Discovery Channel. I don't > recall his name, company, or anything else other than the fact that > he has a patch over one eye. He also has curly fuzzy hair. Hi, Damon. You're talking about Dale Chihuly, who can be contacted at: Pilchuck Glass School 315 Second Avenue South #200 Seattle WA 98104 - 2618 Phone: ( 206 ) 621 - 8422 Fax: (206) 621-0713 Email: pilchuck-info@pilchuck.com Website: http://www.pilchuck.com/ Have fun! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 18:28:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:11:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly From: Nadine Beth Schneider To: "Bob E Duchesneau" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X45671750-X-X" Subject: re: Myna bird Date: 03 Apr 99 20:12:44 -0800 Message-ID: <199904040117.UAA15952@smtp2.erols.com> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X45671750-X-X Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob. . . . You are absolutely right--it's amazing what sometimes comes up. I read about the mynah bird and the original story, then about the different people. We used to live in the Philippines, around the time of the Aquino assassination. I found the story of the missing wife incredible. Sure makes you think! Nadine > ** Original Subject: Myna bird > ** Original Sender: "Bob E Duchesneau" > ** Original Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:12:34 -0800 > ** Original Message follows... > > I just now read the text that came with the myna bird pic. Made > my blood run cold. Never know what a search engine is going to > turn up. > http://www.anusha.com/mynabird.htm Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass: have class. > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > www.nadinesfolly.com --X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X45671750-X-X Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob. . . .

You are absolutely right--it's amazing what sometimes comes up.
I read about the mynah bird and the original story, then about the
different people.  We used to live in the Philippines, around the
time of the Aquino assassination. I found the story of the missing
wife incredible.  Sure makes you think!

Nadine


> ** Original Subject: Myna bird
> ** Original Sender: "Bob E Duchesneau" <>BOBDU@prodigy.net>
> ** Original Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:12:34 -0800

> ** Original Message follows... 

>
> I just now read the text that came with the myna bird pic. Made
> my blood run cold. Never know what a search engine is going to
> turn up.
> http://www.anusha.com/mynabird.htm    Bob
> 
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Think glass: have class.
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

>** --------- End Original Message ----------- **

> 

www.nadinesfolly.com --X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X45671750-X-X-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 18:35:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:11:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: seattle glass artist Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:07:46 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr4.1746.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/3/99 8:01:44 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: >Um, I think the name is something like Stale Pachouli.... No, that's his evil twin, whose picture you can see at: http://www.chihuly.com/bib lio/media014B.html Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 20:24:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:17:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!chitchay From: Shay Friel To: Al & Carla , Chad Price , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Ways to Have Fun At WalMart Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 22:18:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.171813.0> Precedence: bulk Ways to Have an Extra-Special Fun Time At WalMart! 1. Take shopping carts for the express purpose of filling them and stranding them at strategic locations. 2. Get boxes of condoms and randomly put them in peoples carts when they aren't looking. 3. Set all the alarm clocks to go off at ten minute intervals throughout the day. 4. Run up to an employee (preferably a male) while squeezing your legs together and practically yell at him "I need some tampons". 5. Try on bras over top of your clothes. 6. Make a trail of orange juice on the ground, leading to the restrooms. 7. Walk up to an employee and tell him in an official tone, "I,think we've got a Code 3 in housewares," and see what happens. 8. Tune all the radios to a polka station; then turn them all off and turn the volumes to "10." 9. Challenge other customers to duels with tubes of gift wrap. 10. Redress the mannequins as you see fit. 11. Test the fishing rods and see what you can "catch" from the other aisles. 12. Put M&M's on layaway. 13. Move "Caution: Wet Floor" signs to carpeted areas. 14. Set up a tent in the camping department; tell others you'll only invite them in if they bring pillows from Bed and Bath. 15. Contaminate the entire auto department by sampling all the spray air fresheners. 16. Nonchalantly "test" the brushes and combs in Cosmetics. 17. When someone asks if you need help, begin to cry and ask, "Why won't you people just leave me alone?" 18. Look right into the security camera, and use it as a mirror while you pick your nose. 19. Take up an entire aisle in Toys by setting up a full scale battlefield with G.I. Joes vs. the X-Men. 20. Ask other customers if they have any Grey Poupon. 21. While handling guns in the hunting department, suddenly ask the clerk if he knows where the antidepressants are. 22. Switch the men's and women's signs on the doors of the restrooms. 23. Dart around suspiciously while humming the theme from "Mission Impossible." 24. Set up a "Valet Parking" sign in front of the store. 25. In the auto department, practice your "Madonna" look with various funnels. 26. Hide in the clothing racks and when people browse through, say things like "pick me !! pick me!!" and scare them into believing that the clothes are talking to them. 27. When an announcement comes over the loudspeaker, assume the fetal position and scream, "No, no! It's those voices again!" 28. Go to an empty checkout stand and try to check people out. 29. Drag a lounge chair on display over to the magazines and relax. If the store has a food court, buy a soft drink; explain that you don't get out much, and ask if they can put a little umbrella in it. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 20:51:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:54:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberhighway.net!specfam From: Sprecher To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: thank you Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 19:48:54 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.114854.0> Precedence: bulk Thank you for the information regarding polarized film. I will give it a try. Lynda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 21:24:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:14:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Happy Easter Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 22:58:32 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.165832.0> Precedence: bulk Happy Easter and Passover everyone. Try not to eat too many chocolate eggs. Sue ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 05:29:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 04:43:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG Re: Happy holidays! Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:42:14 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr4.114214.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/3/99 9:18:52 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: >Easter hags (ugly eggs) That's toooooooo funny! Happy holidaze, everyone! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 05:49:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 04:43:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Stale Patchouli Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:42:17 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr4.114217.0> Precedence: bulk Oops, the URL for the picture of Chihuly's evil twin got kind of messed up in my last message........ let's try that again......... http://www.chihuly.com/biblio/media014B.html We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 06:00:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 04:44:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG Happy Easter Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:42:12 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr4.114212.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/4/99 12:25:29 AM, stepsue@ezl.com wrote: >Try not to eat too many chocolate eggs. Awwwwwwwww, that's easy, there's no such thing as too many chocolate eggs! Li'l ol' Baptist me is indulging in Manischewitz fudgey nut brownie macaroons, and I have it on good authority that the Easter Bunny is bringing my Jewish other half a great big bar of Tropical Source Dark Chocolate with Hazelnuts and Espresso Beans! Happy happy! Sparks, up *way* too early this morning 'cause I've got to be in the city at 8:30 - which my body insists is really 7:30 - for choir rehearsal....... setting the clocks ahead last night made this morning a "sunrise service" by definition :-\ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 06:01:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 04:53:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:51:18 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr4.115118.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Barbara, You as the artist determine the correct side of the glue chip glass. I follow no rules of what the standard is or isn't, as it depends on the individual piece you are making. If anyone would question you, you can ALWAYS say that it BELONGS that way as you made that decision while placing panel pieces together. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 07:01:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 06:00:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG:It's a Bad one! Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:58:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.45843.0> Organization: See Glass Precedence: bulk Have another giggle or two. K See "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: David Barnes To: K See Sent: Sunday, April 04, 1999 2:18 AM Subject: Fw: It's a Bad one! | K.See: | Here is the funny thing that Jean Lee sent this week as an attachment. We | opened it(she puts attachment within attachments sometimes it's like a | puzzle to get to them) so I am just forwarding it that way hope it shows up. | Dale | | | | | > | > Subject: It's a Bad one! | > | > | > > > . . . It's a BAD ONE! . . . | > > > | > > >Finally a virus warning I can believe... | > > > | > > >Watch out for "Badtimes"! If you receive an email entitled "Badtimes," | > > >delete it immediately. Do not open it! Apparently this one is pretty | > > >nasty. | > > > | > > >It will not only erase everything on your hard drive, but it will also | > > >delete anything on disks within 20 feet of your computer. It | > > >demagnetizes | > > >the stripes on ALL of your credit cards. It reprograms your ATM access | > > >code, screws up the tracking on your VCR and uses subspace field | > > >harmonics | > > >to scratch any CD's you attempt to play. It will re-calibrate your | > > >refrigerator's coolness settings so all your ice cream melts and your | > > >milk | > > >curdles. It will program your phone AutoDial to call only your | > > >mother-in-law's number. | > > > | > > >This virus will mix antifreeze into your fish tank. It will drink all | > > >your | > > >beer. It will leave dirty socks on the coffee table when you are | > > >expecting | > > >company. Its radioactive emissions will cause your toe jam and | > > >bellybutton | > > >fuzz (be honest, you have some) to migrate behind your ears. It will | > > >replace your shampoo with Nair and your Nair with Rogaine, all while | > > >dating | > > >your current boy/girlfriend behind your back and billing their hotel | > > >rendezvous to your Visa card. It will cause you to run with scissors | and | > > > | > > >throw things in a way that is only fun until someone loses an eye. It | > > >will | > > >give you Dutch Elm Disease and Tinea. It will rewrite your backup | files, | > > > | > > >changing all your active verbs to passive tense and incorporating | > > >undetectable misspellings that grossly change the interpretations of | key | > > > | > > >sentences. | > > > | > > >If the "Badtimes" message is opened in a Windows95/98/NT environment, | it | > > > | > > >will leave the toilet seat up and leave your hair dryer plugged in | > > >dangerously close to a full bathtub. It will not only remove the | > > >forbidden | > > >tags from your mattresses and pillows but it will also refill your skim | > > >milk with whole milk. It will replace all your luncheon meat with Spam. | > > >It | > > >will molecularly rearrange your cologne or perfume, causing it to smell | > > >like dill pickles. It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and | > > >terrifying to behold. It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve. | > > >These | > > >are just a few signs of infection. | > > > | > > | > | > | | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 07:14:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 06:02:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: hamsterdance Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:01:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.5110.0> Organization: See Glass Precedence: bulk I think some people have too much time on their hand. Wait till this loads up sound. K See "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: David Barnes To: K See ; Beverly Schindler ; Jean Lee Sent: Sunday, April 04, 1999 2:43 AM Subject: Fw: hamsterdance | Hi! Gang: | Here is something cute that my brother send to us! | Dale | | | To: David Barnes | Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 9:05 PM | Subject: hamsterdance | | | Take a look at this site http://www.hamsterdance.com/ | | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 08:00:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Eleanor Walsh" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:13:44 -0400 Message-ID: <199904041414.KAA05752@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 4/4/99 7:51 AM Eleanor Walsh Yegnim@aol.com >Hi Barbara, >You as the artist determine the correct side of the glue chip glass. I >follow no rules of what the standard is or isn't, as it depends on the >individual piece you are making. If anyone would question you, you can >ALWAYS say that it BELONGS that way as you made that decision while placing >panel pieces together. >Lenore OR - another way of putting it - "artistic license." I've had to use that when questioned why my dragonflies don't look exactly like dragonflies!! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 09:29:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:38:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 11:35:52 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990404113552.0069f704@scci.net> References: <<199904041414.KAA05752@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I had the validity of my work questioned by a woman who had worn a plaid flannel pajama top to work the same day I had brought in a tiny little lamp for my desk. That put a lot of things into perspective for me! hee hee! Melissa At 10:13 AM 4/4/99 -0400, suzy@comcat.com wrote: >4/4/99 7:51 AM Eleanor Walsh Yegnim@aol.com > >>Hi Barbara, >>You as the artist determine the correct side of the glue chip glass. I >>follow no rules of what the standard is or isn't, as it depends on the >>individual piece you are making. If anyone would question you, you can >>ALWAYS say that it BELONGS that way as you made that decision while placing >>panel pieces together. >>Lenore > >OR - another way of putting it - "artistic license." I've had to use that >when questioned why my dragonflies don't look exactly like dragonflies!! >Suzanne > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 10:00:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:06:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bullwhack.com!jackdaws From: To: Subject: EMAIL ADVERTISING WORKS FOR YOU   ADV:384541 Date: Sun,4 Apr 1999 02:36:13 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk E-MAIL-IT SPECIAL Ends april 8th, 1999 ADVERTISING THAT WORKS FOR YOU We Will Assist You in Developing Your Entire Campaign WE CAN CREATE YOUR AD FOR YOU Whether You Are Looking For Sales, Leads or Exposure WITH CB You Can Monitor Your Campaign As It Happens OR We Can Forward Your Responses To You CB OFFERS General Mailings With Fresh Addresses Always ONE WEEK SPECIAL 100,000 $125 200,000 $199 500,000 $375 1 MILLION $695 For More Information Email 4cbmail@usa.net Please Provide Your Name and Contact EMail ==================================================== Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th U.S. Congress this letter can not be considered spam as long as we include: Contact information & a Remove Link For Removal: nomoreCB@usa.net ================================================ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 10:21:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:12:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: a-znet.com!royalpane From: "Michael Bruno" To: Subject: Seattle Glass Master Dale.... Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:09:10 -0500 Message-ID: <199904041619.MAA04040@mail.a-znet.com> Precedence: bulk His studio is called the Boat House and rightly so as it is a converted boat builders house. It is open to the public and info can be found on the internet. The pilchuck school is the hot glass mecca of the world. Key word for a search is Chihuly. I had the opportunity to see him speak and then I met him at a book signing. He is WILD! Also, if you are going to the Las Vegas convention, go to the Beligio (I hope I spelt that right). It has quite the example of Chihuly. Michael The Royal Pane Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 10:30:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:41:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: A color from PierreRe: NG:It's a Bad one! Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 12:40:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.84047.0> References: <<1999Apr4.45843.0>> Precedence: bulk K See wrote: > Have another giggle or two. > > K See > It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and > | > > >terrifying to behold. It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve. > | > > >These > | > > >are just a few signs of infection. This sounds like a color Pierre got when trying to reconstruct the Alicia glass. it is so ugly he only sells it, at large mark up, to people he doesn't like. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 11:00:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: Dani Greer , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Happy holidays! Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr4.3431.0> Precedence: bulk Happy Hilidays to all...the house is clean...for awhile anyway until they all show up!! Rick updated4/4/99 === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 12:01:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:01:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Melissa Hall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:06:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.8616.0> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990404113552.0069f704@scci.net>> Precedence: bulk > Hi all, > I had the validity of my work questioned by a woman who had worn a plaid > flannel pajama top to work the same day I had brought in a tiny little lamp > for my desk. That put a lot of things into perspective for me! hee hee! > > Melissa Now, now, I work in my jammers all the time! ;o) Just ask the neighbors! ;o) And I hear there is this really cool English chick that solders in the buff! ;o) T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 12:13:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:08:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG Happy Easter Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:13:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.8134.0> Precedence: bulk Happy Easter, Everybody. Wouldnt it be fun if we could *all* get together for an Easter picnic with all families in tow, and each of us bring a stained glass trinket (sp?) to hide for a hunt. Hope everyone is well and happy today. It is a beautiful day, and I am behind in every aspect of my life, as usual, but all is well with my little part of the world. Happy Day to you all. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 12:25:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:20:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Sprecher Subject: Re: polarized film Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:07:40 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.9740.0> References: <<1999Apr3.7629.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Lynda, Large photographic suppliers or lighting experts have a wide range of films for covering lights. One of these films is polarised. You must buy in large sheets as they are designed to cover those large lights used in theatres, etc. In the UK a half sheet (about 15 inches square costs 56.00 UK pounds) Steve In message <1999Apr3.7629.0@?>, Sprecher writes >I am trying to find a place to buy some polarized film to make my own >stress testers for fused glass. I would appreciate any help. Thank >you. > >Lynda > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 13:07:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:03:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: northnet.org!frogplay From: "Pamela A. Gilbert" To: glass@intrastar.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: hamsterdance Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 15:03:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.8329.0> References: <<00c501be7e9b$3737ff80$cfcf0f04@oemcomputer>> Precedence: bulk I love it, it is so cute and the music makes you want to laugh all over. What a great Easter surprise. Pam G. K See wrote: > I think some people have too much time on their hand. > > Wait till this loads up sound. > > K See > > "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." > Twyla Tharp > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Barnes > To: K See ; Beverly Schindler ; > Jean Lee > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 1999 2:43 AM > Subject: Fw: hamsterdance > > | Hi! Gang: > | Here is something cute that my brother send to us! > | Dale > | > | > | To: David Barnes > | Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 9:05 PM > | Subject: hamsterdance > | > | > | Take a look at this site http://www.hamsterdance.com/ > | > | > > ________________________________________________________ > NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? > Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at > http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 14:05:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:23:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 16:20:20 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990404162020.0069f420@scci.net> References: <> Precedence: bulk Hi Linda Jo, It could be a long story and the woman is quite odd (hence the flannel shirt in central FL - It's almost 90 today!) but she takes great pleasure in commenting on how I could improve on anything that I ever bring into work with me. Here's the only example I can think of off the top of my head. I made a tiny little wreath out of wire that had four glass leaves. She proceeds to tell me that I should have made it an odd number of leaves. She tells me that that is the rule. Of course, I proceeded to tell her rules smules and went on my merry way. It was just scrap glass anyway. I was playing. Anyway, before anyone jumps on me for asking her opinion, I don't. Occasionally I bring things to work to remind me through the day that if I continue working I can buy glass! (Among other things like food and doggie treats :) ) Anyway, to make a long story even longer my point was that everyone's a critic! Your own opinion is the only one that really matters in the long run. Oh well, that's too heavy. Onto brighter topics... I'm spending the Easter weekend resurrecting a small panel I cut out a few months after my first class. I was having to grind outside on the porch because I was afraid I would make the neighbors mad if I did it inside the apartment. I snagged the board it was on carrying it back inside and broke a number of pieces. I put it away after that but now I think I'm going to finish it. Last night I was laying it back out to get an idea of what was going to have to be recut and I realized that I sure have come a far way in my cutting skills. Yeah! Silver lining and all that :) I hope you are having a nice Easter! Melissa At 01:29 PM 4/4/99 -0400, you wrote: >Melissa, >Often times people are just jealous that someone they work with has a talent >they don't have. Shine them on. What do you mean the validity of your >work? Did she think you had Chinese slaves in your basment doing it for >you? That since you didn't roll the glass yourself it wasn't valid work? I >am curious?? >Linda Jo > >-----Original Message----- >From: Melissa Hall >To: glass@bungi.com >Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 12:29 PM >Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? > > >>Hi all, >> I had the validity of my work questioned by a woman who had worn a plaid >>flannel pajama top to work the same day I had brought in a tiny little lamp >>for my desk. That put a lot of things into perspective for me! hee hee! >> >>Melissa >> >>At 10:13 AM 4/4/99 -0400, suzy@comcat.com wrote: >>>4/4/99 7:51 AM Eleanor Walsh Yegnim@aol.com >>> >>>>Hi Barbara, >>>>You as the artist determine the correct side of the glue chip glass. I >>>>follow no rules of what the standard is or isn't, as it depends on the >>>>individual piece you are making. If anyone would question you, you can >>>>ALWAYS say that it BELONGS that way as you made that decision while >placing >>>>panel pieces together. >>>>Lenore >>> >>>OR - another way of putting it - "artistic license." I've had to use that >>>when questioned why my dragonflies don't look exactly like dragonflies!! >>>Suzanne >>> >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >>> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 18:22:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Las Vegas Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:35:36 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.113536.0> Precedence: bulk There are four of us going to Vegas next weekend. I am really glad you recommend the classes. That was my main motivation. Since I live in rural NM, it means to learn, I have to go somewhere. We talked to one of the wholesalers we order a lot of supplies from, Bendiem (sp?), and they say they do not attend the show in Vegas, they go to the one in Long Beach. They say there is a better turn out. I will be taking Fusing with a Twist on Friday. I hope it is good. At $250.00....I consider this an investment. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 18:39:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:22:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Lead vs foil Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 14:58:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.75822.0> Precedence: bulk The Bungi group has had some very active discussions in the past on this one. Opinions differ widely on came versus foil. You may want to look at the Bungi archives at http://www.bungi.com/glass - The new index (search engine) for the archives is on the IGGA web site http://www.igga.org/search.htm . Most of the controversy is over the long-term durability of foil panels when exposed to stress and the elements (building shifting, temperature expansion/contraction, wind, etc.). Lead came panels are somewhat more flexible than foil and it is argued this makes them better able to absorb stresses over time and they are therefore less likely to develop cracked pieces. The point has also been made that the techniques of leading windows have been developed over hundreds of years experience with the durability of these windows. It is also argued that the techniques for re-cementing and later restoration of lead came windows is better developed than foiled panels. We are talking about 50 to hundreds of years here, so if the panels we are talking about are not expected to be around that long I think you can ignore this. The glues used in modern foil have only been around for a few decades and it is argued they may not hold up. It is well known how came cements will hold up for weather resistance over scores of years. The position has been taken that the glue backing of foil (which maybe contributes to preventing the window from leaking) will fail over time causing a leaky window. On the other hand it has also been argued the glue on foil serves no purpose after soldering (as evidenced by foiled panels from the Tiffany studios which used a bees wax mixture to hold the foil in place until the soldering was done). I personally prefer foil. I find it fits better with my free-style methods. Plus I do not enjoy all the fitting and later cementing when using came. I do however use came when the design calls for the stronger, more structural lines of came. I also use came around the outside of panels to give something for the frame to grab against. "H" came around the outside also makes the panel more adjustable for final fitting into an existing window frame (H-came can be trimmed around the edges). I have argued that the glues used in backing lead foil have been tested in accelerated weather testing. I also feel the glue is not as important in a foiled panel as cement is in a came panel. The added stiffness of a foil panel is a concern in absorbing future stress, but I feel these concerns are better addressed with proper framing techniques. It is on my list to put together two identically designed windows, one with cemented came and the other with foil. I then intend to subject them both to varying stresses to see if I can get an idea how much difference there really is. However, since I currently have five commissions and a gallery show to get done, I doubt it will be any time soon. Hope this all helps you with your decision. I say it is a matter of personal preference, but I know many here disagree with that. Of course, if there weren't these differences of opinion, this list would become pretty boring after a while. Welcome to Bungi! -----Original Message----- From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 12:35 AM Subject: Lead vs foil >Hi All, > Here's another newbie question. I have noticed that many of you seem to >do leaded panels as opposed to foiled panels. The lady who gave my intro >class was very biased toward foil and didn't even seem too interested in >discussing lead. Is there anything I can do in lead that I can't do in >foil? When would I want to use one instead of the other or is it just >personal preference? I am guessing that a leaded panel would stand up >better when exposed to the elements... >Just wondering, >Melissa > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 18:54:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:56:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG Happy Easter,Suzanne.... Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:56:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.155623.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for the sunny light you are radiating today , shine on Suzanne, Happy day to you and your family this special day, take care, Abbie in Va. -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 3:22 PM Subject: NG Happy Easter >Happy Easter, Everybody. > >Wouldnt it be fun if we could *all* get together for an Easter picnic >with all families in tow, and each of us bring a stained glass trinket >(sp?) to hide for a hunt. > >Hope everyone is well and happy today. It is a beautiful day, and I am >behind in every aspect of my life, as usual, but all is well with my >little part of the world. > >Happy Day to you all. > >T Suz >-- >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 18:58:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:42:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!mschut From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 19:48:28 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990404194828.273fd7de@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca> Precedence: bulk My wife has just recently taken up the fine art of stained glass after watching me do it for the past nine years. She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the fumes from soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really worried about it. I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it really be a problem? This is a great forum for getting answers to many questions I have had over the years. Thanks in advance to anyone who responds. Mike, Pam, Jonathan & Kayla Schut Moncton, New Brunswick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 19:07:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:08:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: NG Happy Easter Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:06:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.17619.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com >setting the clocks ahead last night< Gave me the creeps this morning when I turned on the 'puter and it gave m= e a message that it had re-set the clock without me..... I hate this machine... it ac= ts like its smarter than me. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 19:18:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: NG Re: Happy holidays! Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:06:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.17617.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com > >Easter hags (ugly eggs) That's toooooooo funny! Happy holidaze, everyone! < It was too hysterical.... we almost died laughing when I opened the egg cartons and inside were dozens of little tan heads with black hair.... looked like we'd been= experimenting with head shrinking.... and with some success I might add. I think every kid should have a = hopelessly irreverant aunt and uncle. ;-) Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 19:23:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:09:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 21:06:52 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.1652.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All, An interesting story I think occured to me yesterday. I was visiting my family on Long Island (NY). I live 5 hours away in Upstate NY and only have access to one stained glass studio and supplier. Well my sister, whose birthday is next week, just redid her dining room and kitchen. So of course I decided that her beautiful full length windows need some decorating. So we figured I would make her two 12 x 30" panels, one for each window. We went to a stained glass supplier that wasn't too far away so she could pick out a pattern and the exact glass she wanted and I would buy it, take it home upstate and make it. Well this store had some BEAUTIFUL pieces on display ( I was literally drooling). And in the back by the pattern books the owner had several patterns tacked to the walls. Well my sister saw one that she absolutely loved, I loved it, my mother loved it. Now all you business owners think about this and let me know your opinion. I was going to buy enough glass to make those 2 panels 12 x30 and probably more. I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern on the wall and he said NO. That these were patterns that he let his students use and that if I wanted to use one I'd have to take his class. I explained to him that I lived 5 hours away and that I've taken classes and I would be happy to pay for a copy of it. He was so damn rude, arrogant and obnoxious, he shrugged his shoulders said "I told you take my class" and turned away. We walked out and I will never go back even though his prices were very reasonable. I just didn't like his attitude. I understand that people design their own patterns for personal use and he actually had 3 different panels hanging in the showroom of that pattern, and if I lived locally I could see he wanted to keep it to himself....but I live 5 hours away and the pattern was drawn and a piece of parchment paper and obviously used many times. He was so rude that if he decided to give it to me now I'd probably tell him to shove it. So the moral of the story is he lost a potential customer since my local supplier is very small, this guy had probably 5 times the amount of stock for glass, tools, foils, etc. and I go to Long Island about 5 or 6 times a year to visit. My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. I assume that all you suppliers out there in Bungiland are more like my supplier not that arrogant *#@* please say its so! So if anyone thinks I am wrong please tell me. Caren ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 19:32:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:09:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Melissa Hall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:06:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.17622.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Melissa Hall > Your own opinion is the only one that really matters in the long run. < Until you go pro.... and then everyone's opinion matters to some degree (because you learn to listen objectively with the idea that you might learn something from someone else) especially your client's who's providing your livelihood. Just another point of view.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 19:36:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:18:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Soldering..... Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:18:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.171834.0> Precedence: bulk This could be hazardous to your health or skin anyway! abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 19:48:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:34:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG Re: Happy holidays! Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:35:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.173539.0> Precedence: bulk Funny.....lol,lol -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 8:36 AM Subject: NG Re: Happy holidays! > >In a message dated 4/3/99 9:18:52 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: > >>Easter hags (ugly eggs) > >That's toooooooo funny! Happy holidaze, everyone! > > >Sparks > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 20:00:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:13:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Evelyn C Mason Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG Happy Easter,Suzanne.... Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 21:09:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.16916.0> References: <<1999Apr4.155623.0>> Precedence: bulk you are such a sweet person, Abbie. ;o) Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 20:22:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:52:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re;Stretcher... Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:24:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.162459.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Dani, I read in an article where a cam cleat , like ones used on sailboats, made great stretchers for lead. Have you heard of this before? Take care, Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 20:31:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:28:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:22:47 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990404222247.00699638@scci.net> References: <<199904042107_MC2-7094-B987@compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk Touche! Instruction criticism under consideration. ;) Best Regards, Melissa At 09:06 PM 4/4/99 -0400, Dani Greer wrote: >Message text written by Melissa Hall >> Your own opinion is the only one that really matters in the long >run. < > >Until you go pro.... and then everyone's opinion matters to some degree >(because you >learn to listen objectively with the idea that you might learn something >from someone >else) especially your client's who's providing your livelihood. Just >another point of >view.... > >Best, > >Dani Greer > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 20:43:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:46:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG Re: Happy holidays! Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 21:48:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.164815.0> References: <<1999Apr4.17617.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com > > > >Easter hags (ugly eggs) > > That's toooooooo funny! Happy holidaze, everyone! > < > > It was too hysterical.... we almost died laughing when I opened the egg > cartons and inside > were dozens of little tan heads with black hair.... looked like we'd been= > > experimenting with > head shrinking.... and with some success I might add. I think every kid > should have a = > > hopelessly irreverant aunt and uncle. ;-) > > Best, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass That is so fun Dani! I think you are right, we (me included) all need such aunts and uncles making our lives more fun and memorable. My grandfather was like that. Brought me a *huge bullfrog one time, as a gift! lol...was quite a surprise, as he was also the one that gave me a wonderful quarter horse for a gift. A bull frog was the last thing I was expecting to find in the back of his truck! ;o) They will always have happy memories of you. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 20:58:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:48:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Hi Caren...similar experience..... Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:48:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.184847.0> Precedence: bulk I had the same experience when I started out 2 yrs ago....The little shop I went to for information was more interested in selling me something instead of answering my questions on supplies and tools etc. I know everyone is in business to sell but like you said there is some who carry it too far....I don't go there any more......Abbie in Va ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 21:00:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:00:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: mschatee@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:03:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.17330.0> References: <<1999Apr5.1652.0>> Precedence: bulk Well Caren... I am not a retailer..but I tell you what....he was sure rude in my book. I might go back if he was giving glass away, but that is about it. He obviously doesnt need your business, and doesnt care whether he has it one way or the other. What a jerk. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 21:30:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:20:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Strip/Circle Cutters? Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:24:35 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.152435.0> Precedence: bulk Anyone know of any 'decent' Strip/Circle cutters available?? I've had an old Inland for about 5 years and it's about had it...I ordered a Glastar strip cutter and it's real piece of work.. All plastic, and its warped to boot...I'll be seeing about sending it back... I use a strip cutter quite a bit for diamond pattern doors and such.... Byron... Wells Glassworks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 22:02:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:53:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:53:35 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.135335.0> Precedence: bulk >>I was going to buy enough glass to make those 2 panels 12 x30 and probably more. I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern on the wall and he said NO. That these were patterns that he let his students use and that if I wanted to use one I'd have to take his class. << I can well understand refusing to sell a pattern but he is already selling this one to his students. Seems like he should have quoted you a price in-as-much as you are from out of town. Bob Ps: Also you said that a dealer let people take books home and copy patterns. I don't do that because it would pi** me off to no end if someone did that with patterns I had made. I've lost more than one sale with this policy. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 22:33:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:21:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "mschut" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:20:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.142023.0> Precedence: bulk >>She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the fumes from soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really worried about it. I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it really be a problem?<< I do not have a clear answer for this one and I doubt that you will ever find one. The only real answer is to play it safe and quit the soldering part of stained glass for the time being. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 22:45:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:32:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Henry Halem and Glass Notes Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 21:31:30 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.143130.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk I e-mailed Mr. Halem to ask him a few questions the other day. He mentioned that he is also building a site that some of you might be interested in. It's a glass/business site that hosts your web site for a fee. You can get all the bells and whistles it looks like, e-commerce, business plans etc. and so on. Don't know who might be interested but thought I would pass along the info. It will cost ya but price isn't mentioned for everything as it's still in the development stage. It will be spendy though I'm assuming :) I am glad we have another glass resource place on the net, it helps. http://glassinfo.com/business In a past post Bob passed along Mr. Halem's hot glass web site that was very nice also. Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 23:31:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:39:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:38:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.193824.0> Precedence: bulk I hear ya Caren! You wouldn't catch me dead in that glass store after a display like that. It was stupid of him to insist you take his class to get the pattern, given the circumstances. Obviously, his business is so good he doesn't need your business. I'm sure it won't stay that way. My closest glass store is approx. an hour away. It's a pretty drive, so it really wasn't that bad... but I have now sworn them off. The first few times I was there, I got the impression that the owner of the shop just really disliked me. (I am not an animal!!! I'm a glass artist!) I'm a pretty easy going customer, and I have racked my brain trying to figure out what beef this lady has with me. I've spend hundreds of dollars there. But now I spend hundreds of dollars using mail order, since I've quit using her. I've also told other local glass people, when I happen upon them, what a rude place it is. I have even driven 3 hours to Oklahoma City just to buy glass. Why not!? I just make a day of it! At least there, I'll have a nice selection of glass, and friendly people to take my money. I think you should print your email, and mail it to his shop. I'd make sure he knows what kind of list it was posted on. And then I'd forget him! Well.. that's MY .02 anyway! Hope all's well for everyone in Bungi-land! Take care you guys. Blake :-) >Hi All, >An interesting story I think occured to me yesterday. I was visiting my >family on Long Island (NY). I live 5 hours away in Upstate NY and only >have access to one stained glass studio and supplier. Well my sister, >whose birthday is next week, just redid her dining room and kitchen. So >of course I decided that her beautiful full length windows need some >decorating. So we figured I would make her two 12 x 30" panels, one for >each window. >We went to a stained glass supplier that wasn't too far away so she could >pick out a pattern and the exact glass she wanted and I would buy it, >take it home upstate and make it. Well this store had some BEAUTIFUL >pieces on display ( I was literally drooling). And in the back by the >pattern books the owner had several patterns tacked to the walls. Well >my sister saw one that she absolutely loved, I loved it, my mother loved >it. Now all you business owners think about this and let me know your >opinion. I was going to buy enough glass to make those 2 panels 12 x30 >and probably more. I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern >on the wall and he said NO. That these were patterns that he let his >students use and that if I wanted to use one I'd have to take his class. >I explained to him that I lived 5 hours away and that I've taken classes >and I would be happy to pay for a copy of it. He was so damn rude, >arrogant and obnoxious, he shrugged his shoulders said "I told you take >my class" and turned away. We walked out and I will never go back even >though his prices were very reasonable. I just didn't like his attitude. > I understand that people design their own patterns for personal use and >he actually had 3 different panels hanging in the showroom of that >pattern, and if I lived locally I could see he wanted to keep it to >himself....but I live 5 hours away and the pattern was drawn and a piece >of parchment paper and obviously used many times. He was so rude that if >he decided to give it to me now I'd probably tell him to shove it. >So the moral of the story is he lost a potential customer since my local >supplier is very small, this guy had probably 5 times the amount of stock >for glass, tools, foils, etc. and I go to Long Island about 5 or 6 times >a year to visit. My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and >bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the >supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. I >assume that all you suppliers out there in Bungiland are more like my >supplier not that arrogant *#@* >please say its so! >So if anyone thinks I am wrong please tell me. >Caren > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 23:58:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:12:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Strip/Circle Cutters? Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 23:10:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990404231019.009c8100@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr4.152435.0>> Precedence: bulk At 09:24 PM 4/4/99 -0600, you wrote: >Anyone know of any 'decent' Strip/Circle cutters available?? I've had an old >Inland for about 5 years and it's about had it...I ordered a Glastar strip >cutter and it's real piece of work.. All plastic, and its warped to >boot...I'll be seeing about sending it back... I use a strip cutter quite a >bit for diamond pattern doors and such.... > >Byron... >Wells Glassworks > I'm sold on Morton's portable glass shop for cutting strips and anything geometric. You're lucky you got 5 years out of your Inland strip/circle cutter. I had to take mine back the next day because the embedded nut pulled out immediately. Store readily exchanged it with, "This happens all the time." Hmmm... Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 00:26:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Hamsterdance for those who would like to ,,, Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:22:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.162255.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.newgrounds.com/assassin/hamster/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 00:41:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:42:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 01:44:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.204428.0> References: <<1999Apr5.193824.0>> Precedence: bulk > But now I spend hundreds of dollars using mail order, since I've quit using > her. I've also told other local glass people, when I happen upon them, what > a rude place it is. I have even driven 3 hours to Oklahoma City just to buy > glass. Why not!? I just make a day of it! At least there, I'll have a > nice selection of glass, and friendly people to take my money. > You never told *me* that before! Surely you havent done it lately? Next time take the road that goes northwest, instead of straight west... You'll come to a small city that is much prettier than OKC...and a very nice gal to go glassing with. She might even pop for a beer, or make you a margarita, if you play your cards right. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 03:50:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 03:15:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:19:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199904051014.GAA19701@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk Back in July '96, Monona had this to say: I am a resource person on two national pregnancy hotlines. I advise women working with lead to know what their blood lead counts are before they even get a glint in their eye. We know that lead easily crosses the placental barrier. We also know that children with blood leads of 10 micrograms per deciliter (ug/dl) have somewhat reduced mental acuity. The fetus' brain and nervous system are probably even more sensitive to damage from lead. If a mother has a blood lead of 10 to 15 ug/dl, she can give birth to a fine healthy baby. But if she wants to give her child the very best start in life she can, she should try to keep her blood lead as low as she can manage. Monona > >>She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the > fumes from > soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really > worried about it. > > I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it > really be a problem?<< > > I do not have a clear answer for this one and I doubt that you > will ever find one. The only real answer is to play it safe and quit > the soldering part of stained glass for the time being. Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 04:03:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 03:15:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Las Vegas Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:19:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199904051014.GAA18484@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Bendiem (sp?), and they say they do not attend the show in Vegas, > they go to the one in Long Beach. They say there is a better turn > out. Oh, that's just politics. Years ago, before there even *was a new stained glass industry, the people who started the Las Vegas show (not the people running it now) had the IDEA for a show. There was no industry to speak of at the time, but their show CREATED (or helped create) the industry as it's now known. A few years later, AGSA was formed, started its own show, and encouraged loyalty to its show rather than to the previous show. That's what you've met with: loyalty to one show over another for political reasons (not to mention financial ones). Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 04:51:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 04:06:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:04:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.3441.0> References: <<199904051014.GAA19701@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: See Glass Precedence: bulk Where I took classes they have this statement "Pregnant women and nursing mothers should consult their physicians prior to enrolling in class" I think this says volumes K See "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: Albert Lewis To: Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 2:19 AM Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy | Back in July '96, Monona had this to say: | | I am a resource person on two national pregnancy hotlines. I advise | women working with lead to know what their blood lead counts are | before they even get a glint in their eye. | | We know that lead easily crosses the placental barrier. We also know | that children with blood leads of 10 micrograms per deciliter (ug/dl) | have somewhat reduced mental acuity. | | The fetus' brain and nervous system are probably even more sensitive | to damage from lead. If a mother has a blood lead of 10 to 15 ug/dl, | she can give birth to a fine healthy baby. But if she wants to give | her child the very best start in life she can, she should try to keep | her blood lead as low as she can manage. | | Monona | | | > >>She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the | > fumes from | > soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really | > worried about it. | > | > I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it | > really be a problem?<< | > | > I do not have a clear answer for this one and I doubt that you | > will ever find one. The only real answer is to play it safe and quit | > the soldering part of stained glass for the time being. Bob | > | > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 | > Think glass: have class. | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 05:20:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 04:32:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:31:05 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.11315.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 6:55:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: > Back in July '96, Monona had this to say: > > I am a resource person on two national pregnancy hotlines. I advise > women working with lead to know what their blood lead counts are > before they even get a glint in their eye. Thank you Albert for stating it so succinctly, I took my first stained glass class when I was almost 9 mos. pregnant. They would not let me solder or even watch the soldering, at the time I was irked, however now I realize they were correct. I didn't drink, watched what I ate and "followed" all the rules for a healthy baby, avoiding lead was also logical even though I did not realize it at the time. The "baby" is 19 now and more artistic than his mother can ever dream of being, but I can't get him interested in glass, his interest lies in making jewelry. Pat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 06:23:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 05:33:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: how not to gain business Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 07:16:58 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.11658.0> Precedence: bulk Caren, The owner was very stupid. He could have sold alot of glass and you probably would have paid for a copy of the pattern. But you will do him no favors if you don't tell him how he lost your business. He probably won't care, but he should know how much anry he made you. A letter is appropriate. There is a stained glass man in this area that is as equally rude. He does the local shows and I have tried to talk to him before and he just walks away from me. No wonder I never see him sell anything. He was semi nice until he found out I did glass and then he turned into a jerk. But of course his business is the one to suffer. Sue P ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 06:52:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 05:52:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: How not to gain my business Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 08:34:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.13437.0> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk I couldn't/wouldn't do business with a store owner who treated me that way and I really wouldn't let him know how you feel about the way you were treated. He's his own worst enemy when it comes to doing business and pretty soon people will stop going to his shop. At least it happened that way here. We're only 2 l/2 years old and starting to thrive businesswise, thanks in many ways to people like the man you encountered. Customers come from 3-4 hours away, not only because we have what many consider to be a great artglass selection, but also because we're always willing to show someone what they might be doing wrong as far as soldering, cutting inside curves, etc. If there is a pattern that they see and isn't in one of our books because it was discontinued or is an original done by us, they are welcome to copy it on the spot by tracing it. Then "they buy glass" for it. Good business sense if I must say so myself. These people are repeat customers, coming at least once a month, and they can shop locally, but because of the attitude in their local stores, they chose to travel to us. Just my one cent's worth. Carol T ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 07:24:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wt.net!sbross From: "Sarah Bross" To: "Bungi Glass List (E-mail)" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:39:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.3399.0> References: <<199904051014.GAA19701@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk In a similar discussion, Monona warned against grinding glass. (I hope she doesn't mind me paraphrasing as I can't find the original post). Basically she said that some pretty nasty stuff was used to color glass (I think arsenic was one of the nastys). She said that breathing in the dust from the grinder can be as much/more of a hazard than solder fumes. She also added that bringing a child into the world is absolutely the most artistic thing a woman can do. Isn't it great having someone this knowledgeable and caring available to answer our questions?!?! Thanks again Monona! Sarah -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net] Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 1:19 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Back in July '96, Monona had this to say: I am a resource person on two national pregnancy hotlines. I advise women working with lead to know what their blood lead counts are before they even get a glint in their eye. We know that lead easily crosses the placental barrier. We also know that children with blood leads of 10 micrograms per deciliter (ug/dl) have somewhat reduced mental acuity. The fetus' brain and nervous system are probably even more sensitive to damage from lead. If a mother has a blood lead of 10 to 15 ug/dl, she can give birth to a fine healthy baby. But if she wants to give her child the very best start in life she can, she should try to keep her blood lead as low as she can manage. Monona > >>She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the > fumes from > soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really > worried about it. > > I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it > really be a problem?<< > > I do not have a clear answer for this one and I doubt that you > will ever find one. The only real answer is to play it safe and quit > the soldering part of stained glass for the time being. Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 07:38:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!103462.2164 From: Ray Nicholas <103462.2164@compuserve.com> To: Byron Wells Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Strip/Circle Cutters? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:19:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.51937.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Byron Wells >Anyone know of any 'decent' Strip/Circle cutters available??< I have used the Morton System for ten years along with Mortons package for all shapes (straight edge,ruler guide, angle guides, etc) It is called the Morton Maxi surface, and the kit is called the Morton Portable Glass Shop. The straight edge is an aluminum bar which your gla= ss cutter follows for straight lines, whether they be angled or perpendicula= r. Hasn't failed yet. = Warmly, Ray Nicholas = Creator's Stained Glass Mfg. Cutter's Mate ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 07:53:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:49:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:48:49 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.134849.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/4/99 9:24:16 PM, mschatee@juno.com wrote: >My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and >bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the >supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. On the other hand, the designer of the book loses out......... :-( Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 07:55:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:32:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:26:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.5268.0> Precedence: bulk I guess there are two ways to look at this scenario. The first being his point of view .....if this person makes their livelihood from teaching classes.Selling you a pattern in actuality is taking money out of his pocket. And imagine if ten people came in and did the same thing. Just think about yourself creating a work. You take your work to a show or hang it someplace visible to sell. Someone comes up to you and asks if you happen to have the pattern for that work......they want to make it themselves. Now remember you have designed and created this piece yourself. What would your reaction be? Now arrogance is another story....you don't have to be rude to be tactful. And he probably figured that you lived five hours away and weren't coming back for supplies. Or he had a bad day. Always give people the benefit of the doubt. If you happen to stop in again and he acts the same towards you then he is just a bad attitude in the wrong business. The second being your point of view.........which really doesn't matter because you already stated that your not going back there. My other thought is...why couldn't you go home a design the window yourself. You know what it looks like all you have to do is reproduce it to the correct size you need. Take his design and make it better. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 10:36 PM Subject: How not to gain my business 101 >Hi All, >An interesting story I think occured to me yesterday. I was visiting my >family on Long Island (NY). I live 5 hours away in Upstate NY and only >have access to one stained glass studio and supplier. Well my sister, >whose birthday is next week, just redid her dining room and kitchen. So >of course I decided that her beautiful full length windows need some >decorating. So we figured I would make her two 12 x 30" panels, one for >each window. >We went to a stained glass supplier that wasn't too far away so she could >pick out a pattern and the exact glass she wanted and I would buy it, >take it home upstate and make it. Well this store had some BEAUTIFUL >pieces on display ( I was literally drooling). And in the back by the >pattern books the owner had several patterns tacked to the walls. Well >my sister saw one that she absolutely loved, I loved it, my mother loved >it. Now all you business owners think about this and let me know your >opinion. I was going to buy enough glass to make those 2 panels 12 x30 >and probably more. I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern >on the wall and he said NO. That these were patterns that he let his >students use and that if I wanted to use one I'd have to take his class. >I explained to him that I lived 5 hours away and that I've taken classes >and I would be happy to pay for a copy of it. He was so damn rude, >arrogant and obnoxious, he shrugged his shoulders said "I told you take >my class" and turned away. We walked out and I will never go back even >though his prices were very reasonable. I just didn't like his attitude. > I understand that people design their own patterns for personal use and >he actually had 3 different panels hanging in the showroom of that >pattern, and if I lived locally I could see he wanted to keep it to >himself....but I live 5 hours away and the pattern was drawn and a piece >of parchment paper and obviously used many times. He was so rude that if >he decided to give it to me now I'd probably tell him to shove it. >So the moral of the story is he lost a potential customer since my local >supplier is very small, this guy had probably 5 times the amount of stock >for glass, tools, foils, etc. and I go to Long Island about 5 or 6 times >a year to visit. My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and >bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the >supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. I >assume that all you suppliers out there in Bungiland are more like my >supplier not that arrogant *#@* >please say its so! >So if anyone thinks I am wrong please tell me. >Caren > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 08:06:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:56:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:55:01 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.13551.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/4/99 9:27:21 PM, mschut@nbnet.nb.ca wrote: >She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the fumes from >soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really worried about >it. > >I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it really >be a problem? If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't take any chances. I'd stick with cutting, grinding and foiling and let you do the soldering *when she's not around.* it doesn't take much heavy metal to do nasty things (like mental retardation, various tremor disorders and so-called "behavioral" things) to a nervous-system-in-the-making. I'm sure Monona will agree! Monona, are you lurking? Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 08:27:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:34:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Garden Stakes Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:27:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.32748.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I hope everyone had a nice holiday. The catalogs are out and my relatives, are interested in the stained glass butterflies. Does anyone know if they are using brazing rods for the stake? Has anyone made these and do you have any helpful hints? Thanks Jill Medlyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 08:43:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:41:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ibm.net!croch From: croch@ibm.net To: "Glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bigger Windows Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:46:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.0468.0> Precedence: bulk Hi I am about to embark on a major (for me) project for the home remodel we are doing. We want three tall narrow stained glass windows in one long wall. Either of these dimensions for each window will fit the space we're looking at... 60"x18" or 60"x15" My question is: Is there a geometric or "rule-of-thumb" for dimensions that are more appealing to the eye? or for construction strength? Know what I'm asking? Thanks for all your help in advance. I love reading all the responses to questions posed each day. Namaste' Carol ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 08:55:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:54:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: soltec.net!tamis From: "Tami Siddens" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Business sense Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:51:43 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.85143.0> Precedence: bulk Carol T, good for you. You definitely have the gift for business. What excellent customer services you provide. People buy from people they like! Tami ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 09:12:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:17:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copying patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:24:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199904051516.LAA22819@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk Not to mention that it's a violation of copyright and against the law. Think of it this way: you put together 30 designs you're really proud of. A publisher offers to publish them as a book, paying you 10% of the retail price for each copy of the book sold. But the retailers buy only one copy of the book each and allow their customers to make copies of the entire book or selected patterns. How would you feel about that? Ripped off? Maybe yes. You have invested time, energy and talent in the patterns. The publisher has invested cold, hard cash. Both of you have been robbed by a "wonderful supplier." Not so wonderful by my lights. Albert > >My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy > >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy > >it and bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and > >then buy the supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is > >irrelevant. > > On the other hand, the designer of the book loses out......... :-( > > > Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 09:59:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Cost per sq foot, or item? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:04:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.2444.0> Precedence: bulk Good Morning Everyone, I took the Angel Eternity Bridge panel to church yesterday to show one of my friends. She is a great artist in oils, and does angels and forest scenes and stuff like that. Well some people wanted to buy the panel, were not happy when they could not, because it was Mom's birthday gift. Kept asking what the price would be to make one for them. I do not know what a honest price would be for the panel. One friend said that in Colorado, she worked for a company that charged $100.00 per square foot of finished panel. This would put the panel in the $150.00 to $175.00 range. She also said that since I had used iridescence glass on the angel, that it would drive the price higher. How do you figure the selling price for a panel or 3-d object? Also, the bookstore manager asked about making some angels for the store to sell on consignment, ones 5 to 7 inches high and ones about 8 to 12 inches high. Does anyone know what the selling price might be on items these sizes? Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 10:29:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:31:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: re: stained glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:09:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.2931.0> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk you know, I have been "hoping" to have another child (not likely at my age) but I think I have just found the silver lining to the black cloud...it seems just about "everything" I do for relaxation will be off limits...no horses, no skiing, no glass....guess I can sit around and knit booties or something if I ever get so lucky...oh well. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 11:01:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:02:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: copying patterns and retailers who offend customers Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:00:20 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.17020.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 12:41:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: > Not to mention that it's a violation of copyright and against the law. Once again Albert has pointed out the exact same thing I wanted to mention. It is sad when retailers who have to know better allow designers and publishers to be robbed of their rightful profits. I know everyone does not share my moral code, but everyone should follow the applicable laws. Speaking of morals, the retailer I used to deal with had his employees sort the trash baskets after classes to sort out all the scrap big enough to sell, just think of the possibilities, he could sell scrap from glass a student paid for to another student and when the scrap from that student hit the trash sell it again!!! It would have been nice for the instructors to mention to the students the benefits of saving scrap glass. This was before the recent upswing in the popularity of mosaic but in my mind scrap glass has always been worth saving. Basically, what he accomplished was making me realize I'd rather drive 45 minutes to deal with someone I like over 5 minutes to shop with him. Pat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 11:26:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:23:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: artglass@waterw.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:21:02 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.17212.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 7:56:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, artglass@waterw.com writes: << The first being his point of view .....if this person makes their livelihood from teaching classes.Selling you a pattern in actuality is taking money out of his pocket. >> Let me get this straight? Selling a pattern, that the retailer gives away in a class is taking money out his pocket. If the retailer owns the pattern, his incremental cost to sell a copy is 0, so to sell a copy is pure profit to the retailer. His development cost for the pattern has already been recovered (or at least accounted for) by the revenues from the class. Consider also the corollory revenue associated with the sale.. a couple hundred in supplies. I don't get how this is a good business decision. If the decision was an artistic decision, i.e. protecting the uniqueness of a given piece of work, that is a different matter... but the post didn't indicate that. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 11:32:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:38:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: selune.demon.co.uk!jc From: jerry cullingford To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text Subject: Re: Cost per sq foot, or item? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:38:43 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <199904051838.SAA00472@selune.demon.co.uk> References: <<1999Apr5.2444.0>> Precedence: bulk > > How do you figure the selling price for a panel or 3-d object? > Professionals can probably give a better answer, but here's how I'd do it.., First, work out how much the materials you'd use cost. That gives you an absolute minimum. Then, add on anything for power/wear on grinders, bits or whatever, to get a more realistic minimum. Then, figure out how long it actually takes you to make - including setup and tidying up. Now, decide how much you want to get paid per hour (if you'd like to make the same thing again) or how much you'd want per hour _not_ to do something else you'd rather do :-) multiply that by the time, and add that on to get a personal minimum that you would be happy with - then compare that with market prices to see if you could charge more and still be competitive. If you're coming out cheaper than market prices, you may also want to consider that some people do this for a living - which means that they need to set prices high enough to pay the bills, which opens up the can of worms about amateur/professional prices :-) -Jerry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 11:54:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:49:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: jazzykid Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Garden Stakes Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:50:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.75043.0> References: <<1999Apr5.32748.0>> Precedence: bulk jazzykid wrote: > > Hi all, > > I hope everyone had a nice holiday. The catalogs are out and my relatives, > are interested in the stained glass butterflies. Does anyone know if they > are using brazing rods for the stake? Has anyone made these and do you have > any helpful hints? > > Thanks > Jill Medlyn > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Jill, I dont know what catalog you are speaking of, or what butterflies, but I have made some, and I used braising rods. I used black patina. They were used for floral arrangements. The braising rod disapears in the arrangement, so it just looks like a stained glass butterfly flying through. My gift shop guys loved them. 4 peices of glass, 2 antennae, attach, and I sold them for $12 each wholesale. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 12:02:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:05:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:59:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.95958.0> Precedence: bulk >Let me get this straight? Selling a pattern, that the retailer gives away in >a class is taking money out his pocket.>> Thats pretty simple......he makes x number of dollars on classes and more on supplies for those classes and builds up a relationship with his students. As opposed to selling this pattern one time to a person he will never see again. If the person who buys the pattern decides they want to sell the work they have create.....in reality yes it has taken money out of his pocket. This supplier also had these panels in his store for sale. And the person who wanted to buy the pattern wasn't going to purchase supplies from this retailer. > >If the retailer owns the pattern, his incremental cost to sell a copy is 0, >so to sell a copy is pure profit to the retailer. > >His development cost for the pattern has already been recovered (or at least >accounted for) by the revenues from the class. How can you know this? It takes time and materials to copy a pattern. And in this business time is money. > >Consider also the corollory revenue associated with the sale.. a couple >hundred in supplies. I didn't know how much her supplies were going to run for the work. >I don't get how this is a good business decision. No one said it was a good business decision. But it is his right to do with his pattern whatever he wants. > >If the decision was an artistic decision, i.e. protecting the uniqueness of a >given piece of work, that is a different matter... but the post didn't >indicate that. No it didn't. I don't agree with what this supplier did.....but it is his decision to do what he wants within his business. pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 12:27:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:24:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!billy8986 From: To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re your web site Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:43:25 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Email removal 800-771-2003, Monday thru Friday 8-5 Pacific Time IMMEDIATELY INCREASE YOUR SITES EXPOSURE We'll Submit Your Web Site To Over 900 Search Engines, Directories, & Indices For A Cost Of Only $ 14.95 (*) 100% Money Back Guarantee READ THIS TESTIMONIAL We have been a subscriber to a service that analyzes the "hits" to our web site. 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Minimum 12 month term required. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 12:36:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:33:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'CncptThnkr@aol.com'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: copying patterns and retailers who offend customers Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:34:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.103453.0> Precedence: bulk Similar situation....Local shop owner had a nicely done gumball machine on display. I asked it I could buy the pattern. She said it was out of print and would not let me use her personal copy of the pattern book. I was disappointed but I had to respect her and I knew that I would like doing business with her because she would be just as fair and honorable in her dealing with me and mine. Linda -----Original Message----- From: CncptThnkr@aol.com [SMTP:CncptThnkr@aol.com] Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 1:00 PM To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copying patterns and retailers who offend customers In a message dated 4/5/99 12:41:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: > Not to mention that it's a violation of copyright and against the law. Once again Albert has pointed out the exact same thing I wanted to mention. It is sad when retailers who have to know better allow designers and publishers to be robbed of their rightful profits. I know everyone does not share my moral code, but everyone should follow the applicable laws. Speaking of morals, the retailer I used to deal with had his employees sort the trash baskets after classes to sort out all the scrap big enough to sell, just think of the possibilities, he could sell scrap from glass a student paid for to another student and when the scrap from that student hit the trash sell it again!!! It would have been nice for the instructors to mention to the students the benefits of saving scrap glass. This was before the recent upswing in the popularity of mosaic but in my mind scrap glass has always been worth saving. Basically, what he accomplished was making me realize I'd rather drive 45 minutes to deal with someone I like over 5 minutes to shop with him. Pat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 12:56:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:41:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: mschut Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:39:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.103928.0> Precedence: bulk I would skip the stained glass hobby while pregnant or nursing the baby..= .. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:07:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:03:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bigger Windows Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:00:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990405120014.0091b430@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr5.0468.0>> Precedence: bulk At 07:46 AM 4/5/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi I am about to embark on a major (for me) project for the home remodel we >are doing. >We want three tall narrow stained glass windows in one long wall. >Either of these dimensions for each window will fit the space we're looking >at... 60"x18" or 60"x15" >My question is: > Is there a geometric or "rule-of-thumb" for dimensions that are more >appealing to the eye? or for construction strength? >Know what I'm asking? >Thanks for all your help in advance. I love reading all the responses to >questions posed each day. >Namaste' Carol Ancient Greeks liked to use the Golden Rectangle in architecture. They thought it had "perfect" proportional. It had some interesting mathematical properties, too. Whatever the case, in a Golden Rectangle the ratio of short to long sides is about 0.618. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:14:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:42:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:mschatee@juno.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:39:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.103931.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:mschatee@juno.com >I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern on the wall and he said NO.< Are patterns are original with copyright Greer Studios and because we do mostly one-of-a- kind commission work, our patterns are not for sale either.... they may b= e plastered over every square inch of my studio walls, and customers do see them.... but, they a= re not for sale for private use. I would tell a potential customer the above, and if they ha= d a problem with it, = gladly refer them to another stained glass studio that might be more accomodating.... someone who sold canned patterns and pattern books and made that part of their business. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:33:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:44:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Las Vegas Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:39:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.103937.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" > Oh, that's just politics. Years ago, before there even *was a new = stained glass industry, the people who started the Las Vegas show = (not the people running it now) had the IDEA for a show. There was = no industry to speak of at the time, but their show CREATED (or = helped create) the industry as it's now known. A few years later, AGSA was formed, started its own show, and = encouraged loyalty to its show rather than to the previous show. = That's what you've met with: loyalty to one show over another for = political reasons (not to mention financial ones). = < I love it.... Albert know all the good dirt! Give us more!! Best, Dani = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:33:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:07:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!sford From: sford@nettally.com (Steven Ford) To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 15:02:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.11238.0> Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:38:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:10:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re;copying patterns Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:10:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.111028.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, Copyright laws are not exactly something I know anything about so.... When you see,lets say, a small picture of a half moon on a greeting card and you enlarge it ,then incorporate it into a design with other objects you have drawn and or copied in the same manner[ now the question...]Do you consider this " glass plagiarism? If you use any or part of another persons work[direct copies], copyright laws apply ,correct? What if you draw them from another's designs? Thanks for input ,Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:50:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:45:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Dani Greer" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:39:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.103913.0> Precedence: bulk Amen! Message text written by "pj friend" >Take his design and make it better. < Even better.... create your own design and make it better than his.... Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:57:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re;pricing Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:16:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.11164.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Bud asgitp@earthlink.net might be helpful in your pricing of objects if no one has posted this yet...take care, Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:57:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Shirley's List" , "Bungi" Subject: Hang it Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:48:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.44815.0> Precedence: bulk Idea! Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. -----Original Message----- From: MikeFirth Newsgroups: rec.crafts.glass Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 9:41 PM Subject: Project in any kind of glass > Recently, there appeared in (another department of) our hardware store, a >pottery vase about 4" tall and 1.5" inches in diameter with an indentation in >the >back into which a magnet had been glued. Not far away, the same sized magnet >appeared on a peg (2 pieces for $1.99, 3/8" x 7/8" x 1 7/8" ceramic block >magnet, >part # 07044 from The Magnet Source, Castle Rock, Colorado 80104) > This product seems to yell out for use with glass, hot or cold. Silicone >adhesive >would hold it in place. Torch or furnace workers and kiln workers would have >to >make a wooden or metal block the shape of the magnet to form the indentation as > >too much heat destroys magnetic qualities, but stained glass workers would have > >merely to allow for the place for the magnet in their design and consider >whether >they would have to put a liquid tight tube inside if it were to hold flowers. > > Holding the glass in 3-D away from the surface of a refrigerator would allow >light >to pass through the glass in a most interesting way. This strong a magnet >might >also back a hook shaped glass support from which a glass shape might hang >and swing decoratively. > > Mike Firth, Hot Glass Bits furnace glassblowing newsletter > MikeFirth@compuserve.com Firthgm@concentric.net MikeFirth@AOL.com > Home Page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MikeFirth > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 14:10:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:10:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: jazzykid Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Garden Stakes Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:09:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.12958.0> References: <<1999Apr5.32748.0>> Precedence: bulk jazzykid wrote: > > Hi all, > > I hope everyone had a nice holiday. The catalogs are out and my relatives, > are interested in the stained glass butterflies. Does anyone know if they > are using brazing rods for the stake? Has anyone made these and do you have > any helpful hints? > > Thanks > Jill Medlyn > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yep, tinned brazing rods. brass rods would be the smartest to use. stiff enough so that they don't flop around. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 14:28:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:10:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:07:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.12714.0> References: <<1999Apr5.5268.0>> Precedence: bulk pj friend wrote: > > I guess there are two ways to look at this scenario. > The first being his point of view .....if this person makes their livelihood > from teaching classes.Selling you a pattern in actuality is taking money out > of his pocket. And imagine if ten people came in and did the same thing. > Just think about yourself creating a work. You take your work to a show > or hang it someplace visible to sell. Someone comes up to you and asks if > you happen to have the pattern for that work......they want to make it > themselves. Now remember you have designed and created this piece yourself. > What would your reaction be? > > Now arrogance is another story....you don't have to be rude to be tactful. > And he probably figured that you lived five hours away and weren't coming > back for supplies. Or he had a bad day. Always give people the benefit of > the doubt. If you happen to stop in again and he acts the same towards you > then he is just a bad attitude in the wrong business. > > The second being your point of view.........which really doesn't matter > because you already stated that your not going back there. > > My other thought is...why couldn't you go home a design the window yourself. > You know what it looks like all you have to do is reproduce it to the > correct size you need. Take his design and make it better. > > my best, > pj > > Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. > www.waterw.com/~artglass > Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America > Member International Guild of Glass Artists > -----Original Message----- > From: mschatee@juno.com > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 10:36 PM > Subject: How not to gain my business 101 > > >Hi All, > >An interesting story I think occured to me yesterday. I was visiting my > >family on Long Island (NY). I live 5 hours away in Upstate NY and only > >have access to one stained glass studio and supplier. Well my sister, > >whose birthday is next week, just redid her dining room and kitchen. So > >of course I decided that her beautiful full length windows need some > >decorating. So we figured I would make her two 12 x 30" panels, one for > >each window. > >We went to a stained glass supplier that wasn't too far away so she could > >pick out a pattern and the exact glass she wanted and I would buy it, > >take it home upstate and make it. Well this store had some BEAUTIFUL > >pieces on display ( I was literally drooling). And in the back by the > >pattern books the owner had several patterns tacked to the walls. Well > >my sister saw one that she absolutely loved, I loved it, my mother loved > >it. Now all you business owners think about this and let me know your > >opinion. I was going to buy enough glass to make those 2 panels 12 x30 > >and probably more. I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern > >on the wall and he said NO. That these were patterns that he let his > >students use and that if I wanted to use one I'd have to take his class. > >I explained to him that I lived 5 hours away and that I've taken classes > >and I would be happy to pay for a copy of it. He was so damn rude, > >arrogant and obnoxious, he shrugged his shoulders said "I told you take > >my class" and turned away. We walked out and I will never go back even > >though his prices were very reasonable. I just didn't like his attitude. > > I understand that people design their own patterns for personal use and > >he actually had 3 different panels hanging in the showroom of that > >pattern, and if I lived locally I could see he wanted to keep it to > >himself....but I live 5 hours away and the pattern was drawn and a piece > >of parchment paper and obviously used many times. He was so rude that if > >he decided to give it to me now I'd probably tell him to shove it. > >So the moral of the story is he lost a potential customer since my local > >supplier is very small, this guy had probably 5 times the amount of stock > >for glass, tools, foils, etc. and I go to Long Island about 5 or 6 times > >a year to visit. My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy > >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and > >bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the > >supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. I > >assume that all you suppliers out there in Bungiland are more like my > >supplier not that arrogant *#@* > >please say its so! > >So if anyone thinks I am wrong please tell me. > >Caren > > > >___________________________________________________________________ > >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >---- i guess my reaction would be not to give them the pattern. but i'd tell them why, i'd say that i want to keep my work original. at least that's what i say when people want to buy my patterns of the stuff i have online. to keep something original you have to keep the design. however this guy was simply a yutz. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 14:43:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:41:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Local suppliers Re: Hi Caren...similar experience..... Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:39:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.123959.0> References: <<1999Apr4.184847.0>> Precedence: bulk On the other hand, I have my choice of local suppliers. The nearest one, where I took lessons all those years ago, is great about answering questions, finding stuff for me, ordering glass, whatever. If she sees something she thinks we'll be interested in, she shows us. If she thinks what we think we want is cr**, she'll tell us why. She gives us a discount after all these years, too. We spend a lot there, although we certainly don't shop exclusively there. (Now I have to sepnd some time trying to get the numbers on my taxes come up consistently the same...well, Schedule A is done!) Dorothy Evelyn C Mason wrote: > I had the same experience when I started out 2 yrs ago....The little shop I > went to for information was more interested in selling me something instead > of answering my questions on supplies and tools etc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 15:16:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:11:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: mschut Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:25:01 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.11251.0> References: <<3.0.1.16.19990404194828.273fd7de@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>> Precedence: bulk The primary element in deciding what to do is to pay attention to health warnings. Go see your doctor for advice. My advice is to stay away from the glass working studio until feeding is completed. Steve In message <3.0.1.16.19990404194828.273fd7de@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>, mschut writes >My wife has just recently taken up the fine art of stained glass after >watching me do it for the past nine years. > >She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the fumes from >soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really worried about >it. > >I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it really >be a problem? > >This is a great forum for getting answers to many questions I have had over >the years. > >Thanks in advance to anyone who responds. >Mike, Pam, Jonathan & Kayla Schut >Moncton, New Brunswick >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 15:31:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:17:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Evelyn C Mason" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Re;copying patterns Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:15:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.7156.0> Precedence: bulk I think the example you give is in that gray area where I would have a difficult time deciding. Direct copying of a design is wrong without the permission of the designer (and against the law too). Incorporating an idea you saw somewhere else into an original design of your own is OK. In fact I do not think there are very many people in the world who can say they truly design in a vacuum without incorporating ideas they have seen elsewhere. I would have to say that enlarging the image and copying it directly is a violation of copyright law even if you combine it with other items. However, re-drawing the general image from memory and altering it to some degree probably is not. So why not work on your design and drawing skills by redrawing the moon image and see if you can improve it a bit? Then as you add the other design elements you will be more comfortable adjusting the design even more for a unified image. With some practice I think you will find you end up with a better and more personal design this way and you won't have any worries about plagiarism. -----Original Message----- From: Evelyn C Mason To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 2:45 PM Subject: Re;copying patterns >Hi all, Copyright laws are not exactly something I know anything about >so.... When you see,lets say, a small picture of a half moon on a greeting >card and you enlarge it ,then incorporate it into a design with other >objects you have drawn and or copied in the same manner[ now the >question...]Do you consider this " glass plagiarism? If you use any or part >of another persons work[direct copies], copyright laws apply ,correct? What >if you draw them from another's designs? Thanks for input ,Abbie in Va. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 15:38:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:23:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ellenid From: Elleni Drafts To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: copying patterns Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:23:39 -0400 Message-ID: References: <<199904051516.LAA22819@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk >Think of it this way: you put together 30 designs you're really proud >of. A publisher offers to publish them as a book, paying you 10% of >the retail price for each copy of the book sold. Do the designers really only get 10% of the price for their work?? That's terrible. Elleni ellenid@earthlink.net South Carolina - Smiling Faces - Beautiful Places ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 15:46:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:57:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copying patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:03:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199904052055.QAA27333@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > When you see,lets say, a small picture of a half moon > on a greeting card and you enlarge it ,then incorporate it into a > design with other objects you have drawn and or copied in the same > manner[ now the question...]Do you consider this " glass plagiarism? If the half moon inspired you to draw a half moon and incorporate that into your own design, no ... that's not copyright infringement. If you take the entire design and make it bigger or smaller or in a different ratio, but it's still the same design ... that is an infringement. > If you use any or part of another persons work[direct copies], > copyright laws apply ,correct? What if you draw them from another's > designs? Any part? No. Part? Maybe. A large part? Yes. Even if you redraw them from another's design. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 15:54:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:56:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copyrights Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:03:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199904052055.QAA27334@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > [Our] patterns are original with copyright Greer Studios In any case, the "Copyright (c) Greer Studios" isn't necessary for the patterns (any patterns) to be copyrighted. Under present law, the notation affixed to the work is no longer necessary. Still, it's a good idea to attach it to work, as well as to register the copyrights ($20 per pattern and the Library of Congress forms to LofC), since without the registration no monetary damages can be collected. Oh, you can get infringers to *stop infringing, but you can't collect any money. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 16:02:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:57:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:54:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.65452.0> Precedence: bulk There is never an excuse for being rude in business. This person definitely failed in providing good service here. I understand that sometimes one needs to make rules about what one will sell and how. As both a gallery owner and running a stained glass studio I have had some pretty strange business propositions put to me. (Not to say yours was strange - it sounds reasonable to me). But even when I need to refuse a request, I still patiently tell the person why and see if we can work out something different. I never do understand how these people stay in business. One of the Vancouver glass suppliers tends to be rude and give poor service. I too will drive extra hours or order mail order just to avoid dealing with them. -----Original Message----- From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 8:30 PM Subject: How not to gain my business 101 >Hi All, >An interesting story I think occured to me yesterday. I was visiting my >family on Long Island (NY). I live 5 hours away in Upstate NY and only >have access to one stained glass studio and supplier. Well my sister, >whose birthday is next week, just redid her dining room and kitchen. So >of course I decided that her beautiful full length windows need some >decorating. So we figured I would make her two 12 x 30" panels, one for >each window. >We went to a stained glass supplier that wasn't too far away so she could >pick out a pattern and the exact glass she wanted and I would buy it, >take it home upstate and make it. Well this store had some BEAUTIFUL >pieces on display ( I was literally drooling). And in the back by the >pattern books the owner had several patterns tacked to the walls. Well >my sister saw one that she absolutely loved, I loved it, my mother loved >it. Now all you business owners think about this and let me know your >opinion. I was going to buy enough glass to make those 2 panels 12 x30 >and probably more. I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern >on the wall and he said NO. That these were patterns that he let his >students use and that if I wanted to use one I'd have to take his class. >I explained to him that I lived 5 hours away and that I've taken classes >and I would be happy to pay for a copy of it. He was so damn rude, >arrogant and obnoxious, he shrugged his shoulders said "I told you take >my class" and turned away. We walked out and I will never go back even >though his prices were very reasonable. I just didn't like his attitude. > I understand that people design their own patterns for personal use and >he actually had 3 different panels hanging in the showroom of that >pattern, and if I lived locally I could see he wanted to keep it to >himself....but I live 5 hours away and the pattern was drawn and a piece >of parchment paper and obviously used many times. He was so rude that if >he decided to give it to me now I'd probably tell him to shove it. >So the moral of the story is he lost a potential customer since my local >supplier is very small, this guy had probably 5 times the amount of stock >for glass, tools, foils, etc. and I go to Long Island about 5 or 6 times >a year to visit. My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and >bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the >supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. I >assume that all you suppliers out there in Bungiland are more like my >supplier not that arrogant *#@* >please say its so! >So if anyone thinks I am wrong please tell me. >Caren > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 16:07:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:58:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberbeach.net!dayle From: Dayle To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------36FB6E570BD90505899ED60F" Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:57:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.125712.0> References: <<1999Apr5.5268.0>> Organization: Celestial Luminosities Precedence: bulk --------------36FB6E570BD90505899ED60F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pj friend wrote: > I guess there are two ways to look at this scenario. > The first being his point of view .....if this person makes their livelihood > from teaching classes.Selling you a pattern in actuality is taking money out > of his pocket. And imagine if ten people came in and did the same thing. > Just think about yourself creating a work. I agree with this but since it was a pattern created for use by students, if she was willing to buy the pattern.....why not sell it to her? > You take your work to a show > or hang it someplace visible to sell. Someone comes up to you and asks if > you happen to have the pattern for that work......they want to make it > themselves. Now remember you have designed and created this piece yourself. > What would your reaction be? Ooooooooh, I'd be upset! (and it has happened......something you have to get used to in this business though.) I had one shop owner (that I sold wholesale to) who had a friend of hers recreate several of my original gift items for resale in her store. What upset me the most was that the technique was horrible!!!! and I was very concerned that her clientele would assume it was my work! She was also selling them at the same price even though the materials used were much cheaper. After confronting her about it she just said her friend charged her less so she made more money on her stuff. Needless to say, we no longer do business with one another. Is it fair to say that most people want something for nothing? > Now arrogance is another story....you don't have to be rude to be tactful. > And he probably figured that you lived five hours away and weren't coming > back for supplies. Or he had a bad day. Always give people the benefit of > the doubt. If you happen to stop in again and he acts the same towards you > then he is just a bad attitude in the wrong business. There is never any excuse to be rude! If she was insisting on having the pattern as a freebie and not taking "no" for an answer then I could see why patience could run thin....but if she was willing to pay for it, buy the glass supplies to make it and lived 5 hours away....then what's the problem? > The second being your point of view.........which really doesn't matter > because you already stated that your not going back there. If it's really upsetting her then perhaps she should convey to him how she views her shopping experience. > My other thought is...why couldn't you go home a design the window yourself. > You know what it looks like all you have to do is reproduce it to the > correct size you need. Take his design and make it better. > > my best, > pj Exactly......the pattern most likely had to be resized anyway. Redesign it's theme from memory thereby making it different, more unique and she'd feel much more satisfied upon completion. Just my 2 cents. > > My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy > >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and > >bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the > >supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. I definitely don't agree with this. He's supposed to be selling these pattern books in good faith having acquired them from a distributor. How would you feel if it was your pattern book?Dayle --------------36FB6E570BD90505899ED60F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

pj friend wrote:

I guess there are two ways to look at this scenario.
The first being his point of view .....if this person makes their livelihood
from teaching classes.Selling you a pattern in actuality is taking money out
of his pocket.  And imagine if ten people came in and did the same thing.
Just think about yourself creating a work.
I agree with this but since it was a pattern created for use by students, if she was willing to buy the pattern.....why not sell it to her?
You  take your work  to a show
or hang it someplace visible to sell.  Someone comes up to you and asks if
you happen to have the pattern for that work......they want to make it
themselves. Now remember you have designed and created this piece yourself.
What would your reaction be?
Ooooooooh, I'd be upset!  (and it has happened......something you have to get used to in this business though.)  I had one shop owner  (that I sold wholesale to) who had a friend of hers recreate several of my original gift items for resale in her store.  What upset me the most was that the technique was horrible!!!! and I was very concerned that her clientele would assume it was my work!  She was also selling them at the same price even though the materials used were much cheaper.  After confronting her about it she just said her friend charged her less so she made more money on her stuff.  Needless to say, we no longer do business with one another.  Is it fair to say that most people want something for nothing?
Now arrogance is another story....you don't have to be rude to be tactful.
And he probably figured that you lived five hours away and weren't coming
back for supplies. Or he had a bad day.  Always give people the benefit of
the doubt.  If you happen to stop in again and he acts the same towards you
then he is just a bad attitude in the wrong business.
There is never any excuse to be rude!  If she was insisting on having the pattern as a freebie and not taking "no" for an answer then I could see why patience could run thin....but if she was willing to pay for it, buy the glass supplies to make it and lived 5 hours away....then what's the problem?
The second being your point of view.........which really doesn't matter
because you already stated that your not going back there.
If it's really upsetting her then perhaps she should convey to him how she views her shopping experience.
My other thought is...why couldn't you go home a design the window yourself.
You know what it looks like all you have to do is reproduce it to the
correct size you need. Take his design and make it better.

my best,
pj

Exactly......the pattern most likely had to be resized anyway.  Redesign it's theme from memory thereby making it different, more unique and she'd feel much more satisfied upon completion.  Just my 2 cents.
>  My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy
>books.  If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and
>bring the book back.  He knows we will bring it back and then buy the
>supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant.
I definitely don't agree with this.  He's supposed to be selling these pattern books in good faith having acquired them from a distributor.  How would you feel if it was your pattern book?Dayle
  --------------36FB6E570BD90505899ED60F-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 16:09:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:58:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: How not to get business... Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:54:59 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904052057.PAA15098@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk I think the point here is not so much whether one sells a pattern or not, but how he/she goes about it. I would respect anyone's refusal (with "faulty" reasoning, or even with no explanation) as long as the person was at least moderately pleasant. What I have trouble understanding is why anyone in business would be blatantly rude to a customer. Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 16:29:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:41:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hang it Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:35:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.73525.0> Precedence: bulk The design possibilities of these strong magnets are endless! I suspect from the description of the strength, these are what are called "rare earth" magnets. The particular ones I use are neodymium alloy with nickel plating. I order mine through Lee Valley Tools catalogue (www.leevalley.com). They have a full selection of sizes, special ferrous cups and washers which redirect and amplify the magnetic force, etc. (And no, I am not a Lee Valley Tools share holder. I am sure other people carry them also - this is just the one I know). I use these rare earth magnets to hold tools to the walls, to hold down jigs for repeated designs, and many other applications in my shop. We are also working on a design for hanging pictures and other works on the gallery walls this way. I am currently finishing out a three dimensional chess set where the moveable attack boards are held in place by rare earth magnets (goncalvo alves wood frame, etched deep blue flash glass boards, cast bronze pieces). When it is done, I will post a picture on my web site and describe what I did with the magnets. -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Shirley's List ; Bungi Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 3:04 PM Subject: Hang it >Idea! > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass: have class. >-----Original Message----- >From: MikeFirth >Newsgroups: rec.crafts.glass >Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 9:41 PM >Subject: Project in any kind of glass > > >> Recently, there appeared in (another department of) our >hardware store, a >>pottery vase about 4" tall and 1.5" inches in diameter with an >indentation in >>the >>back into which a magnet had been glued. Not far away, the same >sized magnet >>appeared on a peg (2 pieces for $1.99, 3/8" x 7/8" x 1 7/8" >ceramic block >>magnet, >>part # 07044 from The Magnet Source, Castle Rock, Colorado >80104) >> This product seems to yell out for use with glass, hot or >cold. Silicone >>adhesive >>would hold it in place. Torch or furnace workers and kiln >workers would have >>to >>make a wooden or metal block the shape of the magnet to form the >indentation as >> >>too much heat destroys magnetic qualities, but stained glass >workers would have >> >>merely to allow for the place for the magnet in their design and >consider >>whether >>they would have to put a liquid tight tube inside if it were to >hold flowers. >> >> Holding the glass in 3-D away from the surface of a >refrigerator would allow >>light >>to pass through the glass in a most interesting way. This >strong a magnet >>might >>also back a hook shaped glass support from which a glass shape >might hang >>and swing decoratively. >> >> Mike Firth, Hot Glass Bits furnace glassblowing newsletter >> MikeFirth@compuserve.com Firthgm@concentric.net >MikeFirth@AOL.com >> Home Page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MikeFirth >> > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 16:29:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:53:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: (Fwd) Re: Stained Glass Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:50:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.135035.0> Precedence: bulk ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't take any chances. I'd stick with cutting, grinding and foiling and let you do the soldering *when she's not around.* it doesn't take much heavy metal to do nasty things (like mental retardation, various tremor disorders and so-called "behavioral" things) to a nervous-system-in-the-making. I'm sure Monona will agree! Monona, are you lurking? Sparks ---------------------------------------------- I can't lurk because I'm not on bungi. I get too many inquiries a day to pick up a whole forum. But anytime anyone forwards a post to me I'll answer. I already answered this question in another form and I think Albert will forward it to bungi. But I will reiterate that no lead is good lead for the fetus. Anyone who works with lead and wants to get pregnant should know what their regular blood lead tests show. They owe this to the baby. The Centers for Disease Control says the new "normal" adult blood lead is 0-10ug/dL. However, they note that 2.1ug/dL is the mean average for U.S. adults. So when you are above 2, you know you are getting some from your work or environment. I live in NYC in an very old building and I am usually at about 3+ug/dL. The problem is we don't have all the answers about what happens to the fetus when a pregnant woman's blood is at 10ug/dL? The fetus' blood will be almost at this same level. We also know that a reduction in IQ can be seen in young children at 10ug/dL. And the younger the child, the more damage lead causes. So, although there is no data because you can't test the IQ of a fetus, it would seem there may be a reduction in mental acuity associated with some children born to mothers at this level, too. In any case, mothers with blood leads of 10ug/dL certainly give birth to apparently normal healthy babies. But most mothers want to give their babies the very best start they possibly can. In that case, I'd stay away from lead not only during pregnancy, but for some time before and all during breast feeding. And before a woman even gets a glint in her eye, it would be wise to get her blood tested and get advice if she was at 10 or above. And never, and I really mean never, work with lead at home if you plan a family or have young children. A couple of tiny little flakes on a sticky little finger, a little dust tracked into the babies room, and you can raise the little one's blood lead. You never want an actual source of lead inside the house when there are kids about, or there's about to be kids. Monona Rossol Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety 181 Thompson St., # 23 NYC NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 16:45:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:43:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!slsheldon From: "Sharon Sheldon" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: copying patterns Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:47:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.144746.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All, While on the subject of photocopying patterns, I recently purchased a pair of oak bookends and a pattern book for the inserts on the bookends. When I received my supplies the 'book' was actually a xeroxed copy of a book! It was maybe 10 pages but you could tell it was copied from something more than xeroxed pages. I was quite surprised and when I called the company in question received a haughty 'that's the way we do it.' I can't find a date on the pattern book (I've put them aside and haven't done anything) but wondered what basis they had to do this, and even more to the point: why wasn't it advertised as such? I felt ripped off. I am new to stained glass and it's a hobby so perhaps I'm just not informed about such things. Can anyone advise? Thanks, Sharon No. VA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 17:04:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: clientside-viennasys.com!sfairbairn From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Copper patina Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:54:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.8548.0> Precedence: bulk While applying a copper patina to a panel that I recently finished, I recalled an old high-school lab project where we used a copper sulfate solution to electroplate iron nails. If my memory serves me correctly (its been about 25 years...) we had a copper sulfate solution in a small aquarium tank with a copper electrode inserted into the tank. The electrode was connected to one terminal of a 12 volt battery. The object to be plated (a nail) had a wire connected to it which was connected to the other terminal of the battery. The nail was inserted into the tank and after a few moments, presto - the nail had a nice copper plate on it. Now for my dumb question of the day. Has anyone tried applying this technique to a stained glass panel (foil or came) ? It seems to me to be a lot less work than the conventional method of applying the patina. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 17:22:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:57:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Denver job opportunity Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:34:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.133450.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone- This notice appeared in the Glass Artists Fellowship Newsletter and I thought I would post it to bungi in case anyone is moving to the Denver area soon! We're glassy eyed and need help! Dear ambitious and budding stained glass artists, Please come talk to us. We're looking for entry level, freelance talente= d people who are not only anxious to improve fabrication skills but are on a quest to lear= n more about glass design, traditional and avant garde. True, a lot of the work will be rote, assembly fabrication. (Ah, but of exciting, gallery- bound art, so no whining please.) Both of us are award winning artists. We have a lot to offer. Also, one= of us has a = heavy marketing background, just in case you want to learn how to sell those master- pieces. And as your work improves, we'll also take it to market. Call Kelly Williams: 303-980-8732 Cheryl Meyer: 303-831-4341 Good luck to anyone who is interested! I have never heard of these award-winners myself... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 17:43:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:01:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1 From: StndGlass1@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:59:52 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.225952.0> Precedence: bulk At the risk of starting a war, I'm going to give you an answer that contradicts everyone else. I just had a baby 2-1/2 months ago, and I continued my stained glass (as it is my job) throughout the pregnancy. (FYI, my mother did stained glass as a career throughout her pregnancy with myself and my sister as well and we're doing great!) I did so with my doctors permission. I think it is unfair for people to blanket say that you cannot do this and you must not really want the best for your child if you do. Throughout my pregnancy I had my lead levels monitored, and used the UTMOST in safety precautions. I wore rubber gloves ANY time I handled lead or solder, and kept a strong HEPA filtering fan right next to my work area which sucked in all of the fumes. My lead levels never rose once throughout my entire pregnancy, and I'm happy to say I have a perfectly alert and interactive baby boy! I am not saying you should not take precautions, because you ABSOLUTELY should, but don't feel like you have to give everything up! Jenna Meredith-Sanders Meredith Stained Glass www.meredithglass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 17:58:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:09:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: , "Dr Stacey" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Fwd: Telephone warning Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:59:33 -0400 Message-ID: <199904052300.TAA17210@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk > ******************FORWARDED MESSAGE ************************* > Interesting warning to pass on! > > This can happen at home and at work, everyone should be aware...I sent > this > to all my friends last Friday night and I've already had 3 email me to say > that it's already happened to them. > > I received a telephone call from an individual identifying himself as an > AT&T Service Technician that was running a test on our telephone lines. He > stated that to complete the test we should touch nine (9), zero (0), pound > sign (#) and hang up. Luckily, we were suspicious and refused. > > Upon contacting the telephone company we were informed that by pushing 90# > you end up giving the individual that called you access to your telephone > line > and allows them to place a long distance telephone call, with the charge > appearing on your telephone bill. We were further informed that this scam > has > been originating the local jails/prisons. I have verified with UCB Telecomm > that this actually happens. > > I called GTE Security this morning and verified that this is definitely > possible and DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE. It will give them access to your > phone line to make long distances calls ANYWHERE!!!! The GTE Security > department told me to go ahead and share this information with EVERYONE I > KNOW!!! > Could you PLEASE pass this on. If you have mailing lists and/or > newsletters > from organizations you are connected with, I encourage you to include this > information. > Jimmi, your private address. :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 18:15:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:42:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: copyrights Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:40:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.9400.0> References: <<199904052055.QAA27334@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > Oh, you can get infringers to *stop infringing, but you can't collect > any money. Albert, This is not true. The damages rewarded by the court, assuming legal action was taken and won, might or might not be very much depending on the damages actually done and recognized, but you *can* sue for and receive damages for copyright infringement. To take a famous case that many of those on the list might be familiar with : Ask George Harrison, author of the song "My Sweet Lord", if copyright infringement isn't collectible. I think he ultimately paid something in the 10's of millions. Most software (any type, pick your poison) is not patented but copyrighted. Go try to copy the GUI design of Microsoft Corp.'s Windows for a new OS, and see what happens ... won't be long before MS is knocking at your door. Ditto for any other of MS's products, Word, Excel, Access ... and so on. Just like patents and trademarks though, a copyright is only as good as your ability to defend it, which is only as good as the money you have to hire attorney's to sue infringers. Anyway .... later .... Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 18:25:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:47:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "K See" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:46:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.94646.0> Precedence: bulk >>Where I took classes they have this statement "Pregnant women and nursing mothers should consult their physicians prior to enrolling in class" I think this says volumes K See<< This bothers me. They are just shoving the responsibility of saying NO off on to the doctor. It makes it sound as if there could be different answers for different women. Pregnant and nursing women are not different in regards to lead and ALL should recieve the same advice on lead. Bob (not a doctor but with his head screwed on straight) Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 18:52:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:00:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Evelyn C Mason" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re;copying patterns Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:34:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.133446.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Evelyn C Mason" >What if you draw them from another's designs? < Often it depends on whether the design is still under copyright or is in the public domain.... and images like a crucifix or a crescent moon are not copyright-able anyw= ay because anyone would be hard-pressed to prove they conceived the idea to begin with..plus you cannot copyright an idea. If you lift a specific image, like Mickey Mouse, no matter how strong your sense of ownership, you're breaking the law and doing something unethical. It doesn't matter if you had a Mickey bedroom growing up.....= = Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 18:54:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:14:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy (more) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:21:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199904060013.UAA02223@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk In response to Sparks' question as to whether Monona's lurking: I can't lurk because I'm not on bungi. I get too many inquiries a day to pick up a whole forum. But anytime anyone forwards a post to me I'll answer. I already answered this question in another form and I think Albert will forward it to bungi. But I will reiterate that no lead is good lead for the fetus. Anyone who works with lead and wants to get pregnant should know what their regular blood lead tests show. They owe this to the baby. The Centers for Disease Control says the new "normal" adult blood lead is 0-10ug/dL. However, they note that 2.1ug/dL is the mean average for U.S. adults. So when you are above 2, you know you are getting some from your work or environment. I live in NYC in an very old building and I am usually at about 3+ug/dL. The problem is we don't have all the answers about what happens to the fetus when a pregnant woman's blood is at 10ug/dL? The fetus' blood will be almost at this same level. We also know that a reduction in IQ can be seen in young children at 10ug/dL. And the younger the child, the more damage lead causes. So, although there is no data because you can't test the IQ of a fetus, it would seem there may be a reduction in mental acuity associated with some children born to mothers at this level, too. In any case, mothers with blood leads of 10ug/dL certainly give birth to apparently normal healthy babies. But most mothers want to give their babies the very best start they possibly can. In that case, I'd stay away from lead not only during pregnancy, but for some time before and all during breast feeding. And before a woman even gets a glint in her eye, it would be wise to get her blood tested and get advice if she was at 10 or above. And never, and I really mean never, work with lead at home if you plan a family or have young children. A couple of tiny little flakes on a sticky little finger, a little dust tracked into the babies room, and you can raise the little one's blood lead. You never want an actual source of lead inside the house when there are kids about, or there's about to be kids. Monona Rossol Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety 181 Thompson St., # 23 NYC NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 19:10:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:14:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copying patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:21:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199904060013.UAA02226@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Do the designers really only get 10% of the price for their work?? > That's terrible. That's how book publishing works: Author (designer, in this case): 10% Publisher: 10% Retailer: 40% Distributor: 20% Production costs: 20% Cost of book: 100% In other words, when the publisher discovers what any book will cost to produce, that cost is multiplied by five to arrive at the cover price. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 19:12:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:21:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199904060013.UAA02244@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk Monona adds: ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- I would add this: 1. The new "normal" standard for adult blood leads is 0-10ug/dL. But the mean average for adults is 2.1ug/dL. This is an important figure because if you are over this level, it is clear you are getting more lead than the average person from some activity or source. For pregnant women, I'd really like to see them as close to 2 as they can get. 2. The lead fumes this woman is worried about are most worrisome if they are generated in the home. The fume is bad enough when the solderer inhales it during work. But then the rest floats and settles all over the house. While it is small in amount, the longer you do this the more lead is present in the dust throughout the house. Not a good idea for pregnant women, rug rats, or ankle biters. Monona --------------------Back in July '96, Monona had this to say: I am a resource person on two national pregnancy hotlines. I advise women working with lead to know what their blood lead counts are before they even get a glint in their eye. We know that lead easily crosses the placental barrier. We also know that children with blood leads of 10 micrograms per deciliter (ug/dl) have somewhat reduced mental acuity. The fetus' brain and nervous system are probably even more sensitive to damage from lead. If a mother has a blood lead of 10 to 15 ug/dl, she can give birth to a fine healthy baby. But if she wants to give her child the very best start in life she can, she should try to keep her blood lead as low as she can manage. Monona > >>She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the > fumes from > soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really > worried about it. > > I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it > really be a problem?<< > > I do not have a clear answer for this one and I doubt that you > will ever find one. The only real answer is to play it safe and quit > the soldering part of stained glass for the time being. Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 19:26:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:41:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Why he won't get my business Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 20:34:04 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.0344.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks everyone for all the responses. I wouldn't have imagined that such discussions would ensue. Let me respond to many of your responses. There were so many that I figured I would wait and of course I forgot a lot of what I was thinking so I will start from scratch. The owner of the store had some original designs that he himself created (he said) for his students use. So he didn't have a problem with keeping the designs original. He said if I took his class I could use them, now here's the original problem I had. It wasn't that he wouldn't let me use his pattern, I totally respect that, it's his pattern he can do anything he wanted with it...but what he did was be rude to me in front of my family and other customers in his store. I don't appreciate being embarrassed or patronize by a stranger. Besides that I was sooo impressed with his work, his store, his variety of supplies and his prices that I thought I was in glass heaven. Since I have only been doing glass for a year and a half and have only shopped at my local supplier I wasn't aware of how nice other stores could be. So he just shot me down, took the wind out of my sails and burst my bubble all in one instant. It wasn't that he wouldn't sell me his pattern it was his rude obnoxious attitude that if I didn't bother taking classes from him I wasn't good enough for his business. It obviously didn't matter to him that I lived far away and would potentially return for more business. Okay onto the next thread. My glass supplier doesn't have a supply of books to sell. He has his personal copies that he purchased, at the studio for us to use. As far as copyright infringement I don't understand. Don't all of you make copies of the patterns that you will use. I was taught to make 2 copies, one to cut up and one to laminate. So how do we do that without photocopying them. It shouldn't matter if he bought the book or I bought the book. I assumed that if the pattern is in a book it's for public use. Next issue: I have no talent for drawing. I thought I could draw my own but it would take me so much time and effort and I'm so busy at work right now that I don't have time ( as soon as I get off the computer it's back to work for me). I will continue looking for a pattern that I think she would like. Then I will go to my local supplier who I adore and treats all his customers with respect and sincerity. I haven't used mail order yet. I'm an impulse type of buyer and like to see and feel the glass, compare and contrast, hold them up to the light together. You know how it is! Someday when I am more than just a hobbyist and have more money to spend I will probably buy my supplies mail order. As it is now I run over pick up a roll of solder, a foot of glass here or there and it doesn't seem to cost much. But when I buy alot at once I feel in it the wallet and really can't afford it right now. I have found that stained glass is a very expensive addiction for a hobbyist who doesn't sell anything. But the rush is worth it, all addicts get some kind of high don't they. Of course I'm addicted or I wouldn't be on this list, right? So thanks everyone for all your input. I'm sure there will be more to read. Caren ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 19:51:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:19:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Lawn mower proof? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:17:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.171714.0> Precedence: bulk Abbie in Va asked >>Hi Jim, do you cut the grass around the stones with a lawn >>mower or weedeater? = Actually I don't have any garden stones, as a matter of fact I have no grass. I live in a condo, by choice, so I do not have to cut grass and all those other things to do in the garden. Not that I dont like doing it, I just have reached that point in life that I feel like I have cut enough grass. But, my relatives who have my garden stones cut around them = with a lawn mower or have = placed them in a bed surrounded by mulch. I personally think the lawnmower will have little effect on the stones no matter where you put them. The weedeater on the other hand might eventually = do some damage. Remember that if someone is going to step on them, they should be placed in one to two inches of sand and the = stone shifted back and forth during initial placement so as to allow the sand to act as a firm foundation. Enjoy them. Jim Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Monday, April 05, 1999 = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 20:31:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:17:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: test tubes Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 22:13:32 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990405221332.006a1f68@scci.net> Precedence: bulk Hi all, Does anyone out there in bungi land know where I could buy small lots of plain test tubes? Especially those without the maker's name screen printed on them. I found one place but you had to buy them in lots of 500. Thanks, Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 21:05:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:58:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Don495 From: Don495@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: copyright mudding the waters Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:55:37 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.25537.0> Precedence: bulk To make copyright even more confusing. If the image you derive at can be recognized by the casual viewer as coming form a copyrighted image, it's infringment. Don ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 22:26:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:32:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: test tubes Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:30:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.203058.0> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990405221332.006a1f68@scci.net>> Precedence: bulk >>Does anyone out there in bungi land know where I could buy small lots of >>plain test tubes? Especially those without the maker's name screen printed >>on them. I found one place but you had to buy them in lots of 500. Believe it or not...try a restaurant supply house...especially one that caters to the night clubs (you many have to call around)....they should have both glass and plastic test tubes for sale in various quantities. I case any one is really wondering....."Test Tube Shots" or drinks while very popular several years ago....are still available in many places. Take care, Soraya (the former Bartender) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 22:51:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:35:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.14355.0> Precedence: bulk >>I wore rubber gloves ANY time I handled lead or solder, and kept a strong HEPA filtering fan right next to my work area which sucked in all of the fumes.<< I gotta get off this subject but before I do I must get a shot in at HEPA filters. IMO the HEPA filters offered to the public at -$200.00 are a joke and dangerously missleading. On the few occasions I have been asked about the very small ones that are offered for use while working with stained glass I give the following lecture. Save your money for something worthwhile. The filters only capture a fraction of the fumes from soldering and then recirculate the air. Unless the filter media, not cheap, is changed frequently the amount of air filtered becomes much smaller than rated capacity which almost always is insufficient for the space to be filtered anyways. As a practical matter the stained glass person needs a hood and EXHAUST fan that take a suction over the area where soldering is being performed. I have yet to see a stained glass studio that had such a hood and fan assembly. Some do have arrangements that do a fair job. In a previous life I worked with a noxious item called Otto fuel. Learned a bit about filtering and exhaust systems. Not an easy job. Bob Ps: Went to a meeting this evening where a mother bought her defective child. No need to sugar coat it here- this dear child will not lead a normal life. Sad, have no idea what caused the problem. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 23:05:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:59:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: "Steve Wernecke" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Strip/Circle Cutters? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:04:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.1948.0> Precedence: bulk I had the same prob with the old Inland cutter... A couple drops of super glue fixed that tho... I emailed Glastar about it yesterday but no reply yet... I'll wait a couple days before sending it back to my supplier ... >I'm sold on Morton's portable glass shop for cutting strips and anything >geometric. You're lucky you got 5 years out of your Inland strip/circle >cutter. I had to take mine back the next day because the embedded nut >pulled out immediately. Store readily exchanged it with, "This happens all >the time." Hmmm... > >Steve > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 23:23:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:01:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Strip/Circle Cutters? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:05:52 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.19552.0> Precedence: bulk Will this system cut full 24x48 sheets and larger? Byron.. -----Original Message----- From: Ray Nicholas <103462.2164@compuserve.com> To: Byron Wells Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 3:44 AM Subject: Strip/Circle Cutters? >Message text written by Byron Wells >>Anyone know of any 'decent' Strip/Circle cutters available??< >I have used the Morton System for ten years along with Mortons >package for all shapes (straight edge,ruler guide, angle guides, etc) >It is called the Morton Maxi surface, and the kit is called the Morton >Portable Glass Shop. The straight edge is an aluminum bar which your gla= >ss >cutter follows for straight lines, whether they be angled or perpendicula= >r. >Hasn't failed yet. = > > >Warmly, >Ray Nicholas = > > > Creator's Stained Glass Mfg. Cutter's Mate > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 23:24:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:05:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Shirley's List" Subject: Fw: Borax Overglaze Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:05:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.15539.0> Precedence: bulk Very important reading for fusers interested in overglazes. Guess I will have to stop taking credit for inventing/mixing a tablespoon of borax in a cup of distilled water and spraying on Spectrum as a preventive for devitrification. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. -----Original Message----- From: O Pato Newsgroups: rec.crafts.glass Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 2:07 AM Subject: Re: Borax Overglaze >In glass fusing overglazes are applied to the glass assemblage prior to >firing in the interest of eliminating surface crystallization -- also >referred to as devitrification. The tendency of any glass to crystallize >depends on its composition and the time/temperature treatment it is >given. Some glasses, like float glass or certain opal glasses readily >devitrify when exposed to a "fusing" firing as the readers here might >imagine. The overglaze on the surface of the article is a softer glass by >nature. That is, for a given temperature the overglaze will be less >viscous (more fluid) than the glass hosting it. The precise mechanism by >which overglazes work is unclear, but we could speculate that the >overglaze presents an environment in which anything that might >crystallize out of the host glass is amply soluble. > >Using Borax to avoid Devit was originated by Ray Ahlgren. He found that >this worked particularly well with Spectrum's glasses, but with the >others, too. Spectrum published a pamphlet featuring Ray's technique, >which involves spraying a hot saturated solution of borax onto the work >prior to firing. Borax will melt to glass by itself at modest >temperatures and fuses before the host glass to resist crystallization. >It's a bit of a pain in the ass as a method, but has been shown to be >wholly successful in many applications. We should note that with the >Borax method there are no heavy metal issues for the tableware people. > >>Do these use Borax as an ingredient too. Is there reason to worry regarding durability on outdoor pieces with >either of these clear >glazes? I am far more concerned with quality and durability than with >saving a couple >of bucks short term. > >All frits (powdered glasses) which you might use to avoid surface >devitrification probably contained borax in the batch from which they >were made. All frits used in fusing overglazes are based on soft >borosilicate glasses, and borax serves to introduce the "boro" part, if >you will. One isn't aware that any fritmaker in the US is melting for the >sole purpose of making overglaze for fused glass. Seems like a year's >consumption for these ends would be a few hours production. Rather, >ceramic overglaze frits have been adapted to fused glass. > >Commercial frits are compounded by highly competent individuals with high >chemical durability in mind. Nothing like having your frit dissolve away >in use to lose good customers, you know. > >Spray "A" is (was?) Drakenfeld 61500 clear overglaze. The 615xx series of >ceramic overglazes were staple production for Drakenfeld for many years. >Of course, Drakenfeld has been through a number of changes in the past 20 >years or so and the firm, now merged with Degussa, is now known as >Cerdec. In this the nature of the offerings have changed and it is >possible that the basic clear overglaze frit used for a Spray "A" sort >of product has changed, too. Probably to a version using less PbO and >more ZnO -- this would probably describe the harder of the overglazes >mentioned in a prior post. Enamels based on these and similar series of >ceramic overglaze produced by a variety of makers are all applicable to >all manner of baked glass processes. > >The harder (higher firing) overglaze might reasonably be expected to >provide the highest durability -- this is a general rule, with notable >exceptions, of course. Choose an overglaze that will be sufficiently >fluid at the peak temperature required for the effects you want and the >glasses you use. What matters is that the overglaze fuses well onto the >surface of the ware. Underfired overglaze, if it contains PbO, may leach >Pb in amounts exceeding a variety of Standards of concern to people >making tableware. It is also possible that underfired overglaze will be >more susceptible to atmospheric attack than a well melted film -- there >are a couple reasons for this I'm not interested in going into right now. >It's late. > >In fact, very little is known about the absolute durability of fused >glass surfaces produced by overglazing. One has seen several examples of >corroded overglazed fused glass outdoors, but really very few and most >showing poor technique in making or installation. > >Really, it would be better if the glassmakers simply made glasses that >don't devitrify so easily. It's not that hard to do. > >O Pato na beira da Praia > > >-- >"It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that isn't so. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 00:23:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:08:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Artists giving back..Kosovo Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:13:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.201357.0> Precedence: bulk I dont watch a whole lot of TV. I just watched more than I could handle about the people fleeing Kosovo...Saw these poor little kids that had homes a couple of days ago. Now many of them dont even have parents. Over whelmingly sad to me. I sold my latest fan lamp today, and the check is in my purse. Watching that show made me realise, I dont need it so much...I wouldnt really miss it and could live with myself much better if I just go ahead and send it on to Unicef. I hope *most of you will feel the same way and send some to them too. I did read that 100% of the donation to unicef will go directly to aid in Kosovo. http://www.unicefusa.org/alert/emergency/kosovo_alert/help.html http://www.savethechildren.org/kosovo/index.html Tulsa Suzanne "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 02:56:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:44:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copyrights Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 04:51:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199904060844.EAA06708@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > > Oh, you can get infringers to *stop infringing, but you can't > > collect any money. > This is not true. The damages rewarded by the court, assuming legal > action was taken and won, might or might not be very much depending > on the damages actually done and recognized, but you *can* sue for > and receive damages for copyright infringement. I'm not sure you understood, Bob, that I was making the difference clear between automatically copyrighted creative output (anything and everything one makes is copyrighted) and output the copyright for which has been *registered. It's my understanding that only *registered copyrights can be enforced with damages (money) awarded. All copyrights can be enforced, but enforcement of unregistered copyrights can only result in getting the infringing parties to stop doing so. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 03:11:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:45:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 04:51:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199904060844.EAA06701@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > At the risk of starting a war, I'm going to give you an answer that > contradicts everyone else. Congrats on the healthy baby, Jenna, and on the fact that you were able to continue working with lead throughout your pregnancy without any as-yet discernable side effects. Since you run a rather largish stained glass retail and studio outlet, though, it's not surprising that you'd test working with lead throughout your pregnancy. I'm just wondering, though, if you'd feel the same about smoking and pregnancy. Perhaps if you were a member of the Reynolds family? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 03:23:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:46:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 04:51:58 +0000 Message-ID: <199904060844.EAA06691@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I have yet to see a stained glass studio that had > such a hood and fan assembly. Hi, Bob. You simply must, then, at some point, visit Cummings Studios here in North Adams. The unzipping room's tables have large heavy-duty vacuum systems over them, big tubes that can be moved to right over the work being done. The room is sealed off from the rest of the studio, the craftspeople wear respirators ... the whole nine yards. As far as I know, it's the only American studio that takes such steps. They have in general a very serious approach to the whole question: all craftspeople wear fresh coveralls every day, shower at end of day and the coveralls are picked up weekly by Hazmat cleaners. Lead tests are mandatory every six months and if any employees should go over a certain mark, they're off the bench and assigned other duties until the blood lead level drops back to acceptable. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 06:31:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 05:26:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: test tubes Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:24:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.22450.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BE80C7.B90AE9E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well Melissa, I never cease to be amazed by www.ebay.com I went there and typed in test tubes and found, to my big surprise, = several items listed. I've included a few of the links that I thought sounded = like what you are looking for. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87282721 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87283702 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87284487 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87304118 I noticed that one of the above auction items does have the = manufacturer's name printed on it, but I would bet that a moment or two with a bit of = steel wool, and some determination would alleviate that problem. Ok... now for the important part..... WHAT'RE YOU GONNA MAKE?! No wait... lemme guess... you've worked out a formula for growing sheets of stained glass under closely monitored laboratory conditions!? oh wait... an army of miniature Patrick clones, marching onto the Kosovo front, resplendent in their bejeweled glass battle skirts!! Oh the mind just runs amok! (which is a problem that's been addressed = with me before!) Hope this helps you out!!! Blake :-) -----Original Message----- From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 10:36 PM Subject: test tubes >Hi all, > Does anyone out there in bungi land know where I could buy small lots = of >plain test tubes? Especially those without the maker's name screen = printed >on them. I found one place but you had to buy them in lots of 500. > >Thanks, >Melissa > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BE80C7.B90AE9E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well Melissa, I never cease to be amazed by www.ebay.com

I went there and = typed in=20 test tubes and found, to my big surprise, several
items listed.  = I've=20 included a few of the links that  I thought sounded like
what = you are=20 looking for.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87282721

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87283702

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87284487

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87304118

I=20 noticed that one of the above auction items does have the = manufacturer's
name=20 printed on it, but I would bet that a moment or two with a bit of = steel
wool,=20 and some determination would alleviate that problem.

Ok... now = for the=20 important part.....
WHAT'RE YOU GONNA MAKE?!
No wait... lemme=20 guess...

you've worked out a formula for growing sheets of = stained glass=20 under
closely monitored laboratory conditions!?

oh = wait...

an=20 army of miniature Patrick clones, marching onto the Kosovo = front,
resplendent=20 in their bejeweled glass battle skirts!!

Oh the mind just runs=20 amok!  (which is a problem that's been addressed with
me=20 before!)

Hope this helps you=20 out!!!
Blake
:-)


-----Original Message-----
From: = Melissa=20 Hall <melissah@scci.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, = April 05,=20 1999 10:36 PM
Subject: test tubes


>Hi all,
> Does = anyone=20 out there in bungi land know where I could buy small lots = of
>plain test=20 tubes?  Especially those without the maker's name screen = printed
>on=20 them.  I found one place but you had to buy them in lots of=20 500.
>
>Thanks,
>Melissa
>
>----
>For= =20 subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
&g= t;To send=20 to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives = available at=20 http://www.bungi.com/glass
<= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BE80C7.B90AE9E0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 06:51:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 05:39:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: nice site Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:38:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.43836.0> Precedence: bulk I just stumbled across this site. Some very nice work. I know I've seen the belly dancer on another (SGB?) site. There's a beautiful peacock screen, and check out the soldered sculptured dragons. They put the creative casting type pieces to shame! Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 07:03:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 05:56:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:00:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.3044.0> References: <<199904060844.EAA06691@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Monona's mail is pretty scary. I feel like a walking contaminant. Now I feel like Graham shouldnt even be allowed to walk through my workshop. I have been using the same vacuum cleaner in my work shop as in the rest of the house. When Graham was about a year his lead level was up a little, and since I was breastfeeding I got his pediatrician to test my blood too. Mine is higher than the average person, but wouldnt be attributed to glass work, since I hadnt gotten back to it yet. More likely it was caused by living in a home that was built in 1924. I am due for yearly Dr appts, will be interesting to see if my lead level has gone up now that I am doing glass again. Think I will get Grahams levels checked again too..to make sure his arent going up. It was pretty terrifying when they told me his lead level was up. I really watched where he put his mouth, and filtered all our drinking water. His levels did drop. Pretty helpless feeling though. Now it would be *my fault. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 07:21:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:01:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Garden Stakes Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:01:29 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.13129.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 10:27:44 AM, jazzykid@tir.com wrote: >[...] stained glass butterflies. Does anyone know if they >are using brazing rods for the stake? I think that's what's usually used. They do tend to become brittle in winter though, so I'd advise folks to bring them inside when the weather starts to get nippy. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 07:34:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:02:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Tim & Adriana Atwood'" , Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Hang it Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:01:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.5154.0> Precedence: bulk Thank you for the info on Lee Valley. I have gone to their site, ordered the catalog and really enjoyed myself reading their recent correspondence, especially the Rx for Bag Balm. Use the stuff all the time - good for the "occasional" glass cut. Linda The particular ones I use are neodymium alloy with nickel plating. I order mine through Lee Valley Tools catalogue (www.leevalley.com). ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 08:03:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:22:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aries17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: re: Copyright... software Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:20:37 -0400 Message-ID: <199904061320.JAA00843@aries17.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Bob claims: | Most software (any type, pick your poison) is not patented but | copyrighted. Go try to copy the GUI design of Microsoft Corp.'s Windows | for a new OS, and see what happens ... won't be long before MS is Bob, you're mixing concepts. The "look and feel" of an application is a very cloudy area in which some companies have been able to succesfully sue other, but many have not. I don't remember if it actually falls into copyright. Cases about it are Microsoft vs. Apple. Lotus vs. Borland. Software --for bizarre reasons, and I believe, because of the interests of the software companies-- is considered a "literary work". Therefore, it is protected in the same way that a book. You cannot make copies of it and redistribute them, either by profit or not. When you buy a copy of Word, you don't buy Word, you buy a licence to use Word. With regard to the patterns and patterns books, there is what is known as "fair use", that allows you to use a small section of a work into another. The problem is how to define small in this area. :) | Just like patents and trademarks though, a copyright is only as good as | your ability to defend it, which is only as good as the money you have | to hire attorney's to sue infringers. Totally true. It is, in a way, a moral responsibility not to steal from somebody else. -- Daniel M. German "And the world, to each individual, means the part of it with which John Stuart Mill -> he comes in contact." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 09:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:22:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aries17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: re: Copyright... software Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:20:37 -0400 Message-ID: <199904061320.JAA00843@aries17.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Bob claims: | Most software (any type, pick your poison) is not patented but | copyrighted. Go try to copy the GUI design of Microsoft Corp.'s Windows | for a new OS, and see what happens ... won't be long before MS is Bob, you're mixing concepts. The "look and feel" of an application is a very cloudy area in which some companies have been able to succesfully sue other, but many have not. I don't remember if it actually falls into copyright. Cases about it are Microsoft vs. Apple. Lotus vs. Borland. Software --for bizarre reasons, and I believe, because of the interests of the software companies-- is considered a "literary work". Therefore, it is protected in the same way that a book. You cannot make copies of it and redistribute them, either by profit or not. When you buy a copy of Word, you don't buy Word, you buy a licence to use Word. With regard to the patterns and patterns books, there is what is known as "fair use", that allows you to use a small section of a work into another. The problem is how to define small in this area. :) | Just like patents and trademarks though, a copyright is only as good as | your ability to defend it, which is only as good as the money you have | to hire attorney's to sue infringers. Totally true. It is, in a way, a moral responsibility not to steal from somebody else. -- Daniel M. German "And the world, to each individual, means the part of it with which John Stuart Mill -> he comes in contact." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 09:53:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:24:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: copyrights Date: Tue Apr 6 06:23:54 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.4154.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE802E.2EC8610C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To take a famous case that many of those on the list might be familiar with : Ask George Harrison, author of the song "My Sweet Lord", if copyright infringement isn't collectible. I think he ultimately paid something in the 10's of millions. Anyway .... later .... Bob There was another case where IBM claimed copyright on the term "bookshelf" as applied to documentation/books on electronic media. It happened over 7 years ago and I don't remember hearing a court ruling. As with so much else, copyright seems to depend on how good your lawyer is. Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE802E.2EC8610C Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: copyrights

To take a famous case that many of those on the list = might be familiar
with : Ask George Harrison, author of the song = "My Sweet Lord", if
copyright infringement isn't collectible. = <G>  I think he ultimately
paid something in the 10's of millions.

Anyway .... later .... Bob

There was another case where IBM claimed copyright on = the term "bookshelf" as applied to documentation/books on = electronic media. It happened over 7 years ago and I don't remember = hearing a court ruling.

As with so much else, copyright seems to depend on = how good your lawyer is.

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE802E.2EC8610C-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:00:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:31:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: copying patterns Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:28:51 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.132851.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 5:38:39 PM, ellenid@earthlink.net wrote: >Do the designers really only get 10% of the price for their work?? That's >terrible. Terrible as it seems, that's the general rule across the publishing industry. My other half, who's a composer, gets 10% on everything of his that sells directly (but 50% on rentals such as orchestral parts, because the publisher can "sell" the same printed materials several times). The rest of the price gets eaten up in printing, advertising, and distribution. That's why Carolyn Kyle, the Wardells, et al. have their own publishing companies. They make out far better that way, because they get not only the artist's cut but the publisher's, the distributor's, etc. Between the economics (including widely available, affordable professional-quality desktop publishing tools; I just love my 1200 dpi tabloid-size laser printer) and the fact that the web gives them widespread, inexpensive advertising exposure, more and more folks these days are deciding that self-publishing is the way to go. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:07:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: business 101 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:10:43 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.11043.0> Precedence: bulk Because I live so far from anything!!! One of the joys of going somewhere is visit the local glass shop. There are about a dozen of us that do glass in my town, we have formed a guild, and when someone goes somewhere it is almost required for them to visit a glass shop and share with us, new pattern books, glass, tools, etc. I get out of town shops email addresses if they have them, and order from them, if they have something I can't find anywhere else. The more anyone shares with me in terms of time and information, the more pleasant the visit. I am more likely to remember them, they are more likely to remember me, and we are more likely to do business. I think being a "nice" person always pays off. Business should not change that. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:20:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:33:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Long Beach for B. Britt Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:16:55 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.11655.0> Precedence: bulk There are two in one. Vicki Payne's Glass Extravaganza, june 11,12,& 13. and Festival of Art Glass June 13 at Long Beach Convention Center, Long Beach California. extravaganza@worldnet.att.com www.agsa.org ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:21:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:14:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Fw: Re: Interesting-Y2K and your VCR Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:02:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.0250.0> Precedence: bulk Veerrry Interesting.... Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ >From: Dtbears@aol.com >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:57:45 EST >To: Dtbears@aol.com >Subject: Re: Interesting-Y2K and your VCR >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 > ><< > > RE: New VCR setting for 2000 > > > > Here is something I bet you hadn't thought would be an issue for Y2K. > > You won't be able to use the programed recording feature. > > > > " Do not throw away your VCR in the year 2000. Set it on 1972 because > > the days will be the same. Please pass this on because you know the > > manufacturer will not share this information. They will want you to buy > > a new one that is Y2K compliant." > > > >> Ron Schroeder rons@fea.net They are not long, the days of wine and roses: Out of a misty dream Our path emerges for a while, then closes, Within a dream. Vitae Summa Brevis - Ernest Dowson ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:23:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:21:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:15:37 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.141537.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 7:44:12 PM, StndGlass1@aol.com wrote: >Throughout my pregnancy I had my lead >levels monitored, and used the UTMOST in safety precautions. I wore rubber >gloves ANY time I handled lead or solder, and kept a strong HEPA filtering >fan right next to my work area which sucked in all of the fumes. Having worked in the chemical industry (including several months in a facility that makes catalytic converters..... platinum, vanadium, all kinds of nasties), I can (and do) say that it's possible to work safely with almost any hazardous material PROVIDED THAT PROPER SAFETY PRECAUTIONS ARE TAKEN AND ALL HANDLING PROTOCOLS ARE FOLLOWED TO THE LETTER (I am now done shouting.) As a pro, you (and your mother before you) know how to handle the materials to minimize your risk. You have to, because you're around the stuff all day every day and you depend on it for your livelihood. Ironically, often it's the hobbyist who can get into trouble by treating the stuff too casually. "How dangerous can it be, people do it at home all the time," etc. If you don't have proper safety equipment *and* a place to work that's isolated from your living areas (for instance, my garage doesn't even have a door leading into the rest of the house, and what I *really* wish I could do is put up one of those prefab sheds out at the back of the yard), it's best to err on the side of caution. Sparks p.s. to our pregnant hobbyist: How about using the next few months to develop your design skills? That way ou'll have plenty of original stuff to work on when the coast is clear! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:37:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:57:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hang it Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:50:56 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.135056.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Tim Atwood: >Lee Valley Tools catalogue (www.leevalley.com) Hooboy, I found these guys on the net and promptly ordered a catalog from them. Slobber, slobber! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:37:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:23:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Re;copying patterns Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:21:11 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.142111.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 8:52:53 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: >If you lift a specific image, like Mickey >Mouse, no matter >how strong your sense of ownership, you're breaking the law and doing >something >unethical. It doesn't matter if you had a Mickey bedroom growing up..... Mickey is back........ Recently I read in one of the national news magazines that Disney's copyright on him was due to expire in 2003, and recently the company went after (and got) a 20-year extension of that copyright (contrary to "normal" copyright law; just goes to show you what you can do if you have enough money and hardball tactics to throw at the supposed "powers that be").... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:42:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:32:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Strip/Circle Cutters? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:30:10 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.143010.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/6/99 1:24:57 AM, byronwells@eatumup.com wrote: >Will this [Morton] system cut full 24x48 sheets and larger? You can now get a longer bar for the Morton System that will take a full 24" wide sheet when used on a Maxi Surface. I just picked one up recently. Pricey but worth it IMO, because I don't have any full-sheet sized storage space and frequently have to cut full sheets of glass in half to fit in my undercounter bin. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:50:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:33:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Lawn mower proof? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:25:30 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.142530.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 9:52:22 PM, gcanvas@compuserve.com wrote: >I personally think the lawnmower will have little effect >on the stones no matter where you put them. Oh, but what those stones will do to your lawn mower blade if they're not sunk into the ground and you run over one!!!!!! =8-O OTOH, I don't think the weedwhacker will do a thing to them, especially if you're using high-quality concrete like Rapidset (R). Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:51:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:46:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Now *that's* safety precautions! Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:38:56 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.143856.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/6/99 5:24:05 AM, Albert wrote: >You simply must, then, at some point, visit Cummings Studios here in >North Adams. [...] As far as I >know, it's the only American studio that takes such steps. [...] Sounds like the catalytic-converter manufacturer I worked for. The hell of it was, they only used those precautions on the manufacturing side. All of us poor slobs on the R&D side were pretty much on our own; the company didn't take *our* hazards seriously at all, I guess because we weren't working with tons of the stuff. The dust was everywhere though. And I used to get razzed mercilessly for trotting out coveralls, respirator, hood, etc. and running around looking like a space invader when I had to get into something messy. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:53:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:05:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: nice site-----------oops Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:04:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.7454.0> Precedence: bulk You people are so picky. I tell you about a nice site, and you want me to provide the address too! Sorry. (See why I don't post much?) My charming computer skills at work. Here's the address: http://home.earthlink.net/~asgitp/ Jerri >I just stumbled across this site. Some very nice work. I know I've seen the belly dancer on another (SGB?) site. There's a beautiful peacock screen, and check out the soldered sculptured dragons. They put the creative casting type pieces to shame! Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:07:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:34:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Artists giving back..Kosovo Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:41:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990406084150.009b6570@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr5.201357.0>> Precedence: bulk At 01:13 AM 4/6/99 -0500, Tulsa Suzanne wrote: >I dont watch a whole lot of TV. I just watched more than I could handle >about the people fleeing Kosovo...Saw these poor little kids that had >homes a couple of days ago. Now many of them dont even have parents. >Over whelmingly sad to me. > >I sold my latest fan lamp today, and the check is in my purse. Watching >that show made me realise, I dont need it so much...I wouldnt really >miss it and could live with myself much better if I just go ahead and >send it on to Unicef. > >I hope *most of you will feel the same way and send some to them too. > >I did read that 100% of the donation to unicef will go directly to aid >in Kosovo. > >http://www.unicefusa.org/alert/emergency/kosovo_alert/help.html >http://www.savethechildren.org/kosovo/index.html > >Tulsa Suzanne > >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte Thanks for the wake-up call, Suzanne. I just made an on-line donation. It's easy, folks. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:09:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:40:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson From: Paula Nelson To: CncptThnkr@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: copying patterns and retailers who offend customers Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:47:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.4476.0> Precedence: bulk >Speaking of morals, the retailer I used to deal with had his employees sort >the trash baskets after classes to sort out all the scrap big enough to sell, >just think of the possibilities, he could sell scrap from glass a student >paid for to another student and when the scrap from that student hit the >trash sell it again!!! It would have been nice for the instructors to >mention to the students the benefits of saving scrap glass. This was before >the recent upswing in the popularity of mosaic but in my mind scrap glass has >always been worth saving. That's a really 'trashy' way to treat anyone - no pun intended, but it does work, doesn't it . The instructor of my masters class told us to save everything over the size of a quarter. I have plastic shoeboxes that are filled by specific type, and for some colors I don't use much of - I haven't needed to cut a large piece in years... Paula Nelson uitland@glassdogstudio.com The Glass Dog Studio http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm vom Uitland Rottweilers http://www.glassdogstudio.com/uitland.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:20:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:41:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: giraffe-joos Date: Tue Apr 6 09:39:46 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.71746.0> Precedence: bulk hi guys just talked to jeff eckes, who makes giraffe-joos i have it available in 8oz bottles if anyone is looking for it...contact me off list thanx debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:23:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:11:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: clientside-viennasys.com!sfairbairn From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: copyrights Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:13:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.3131.0> Precedence: bulk You absolutely must defend your patents and copyrights. During the Microsoft vs. Apple wars where Apple was suing Microsoft for "look and feel" of Windows and some mouse technology, Xerox, who invented the mouse, the concept of "floating resizable windows" and the GUI interface, decided to sue Apple. This was some 5 or 6 years after the Apple Lisa (Mac predecessor) first came out. The judge would not hear the case because Xerox had waited too long to sue and buy not defending their intellectual property lost the ownership of that property. It did, however, put to bed many of the issues that Apple had with Microsoft. On the flip side, Lotus successfully sued Paperback Software, who produced a spreadsheet with similar pull-down menus to Lotus 123, for "look and feel" and as a result put Paperback Software out of business. Steve -----Original Message----- From: rrk [mailto:ezcomezgo@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 4:40 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copyrights Just like patents and trademarks though, a copyright is only as good as your ability to defend it, which is only as good as the money you have to hire attorney's to sue infringers. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:34:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:34:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:41:10 +0000 Message-ID: <199904061733.NAA12495@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > When stained glass > is your business, however, you do not automatically have to stop. > Just my opinion. Yes, Jenna. And I didn't mean to be unfair, just to point out that we all pick our poisons and when to take them. When my ex was carrying my youngest, she stopped smoking *and drinking the whole time she carried him. Granted, t'was only cigarettes and wine, but still. He's turned out okay ... and might have in any case (who ever knows?) apart from the fact that he's 17 and thus unbearably more intelligent and wider read and more knowledgeable on every subject than either I am or his mother to boot. Or that's what *he thinks, in any case. I'd just think the same kind of caution would apply where lead is concerned, but as you say ... it's only MY opinion and quite obviously, it's a decision I'll never have to make, given my gender. Best regards always, Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:50:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:51:14 +0000 Message-ID: <199904061743.NAA12631@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Ironically, often it's the hobbyist who can get into trouble by > treating the stuff too casually. "How dangerous can it be, people do > it at home all the time," etc. Not to mention the retailers who gloss over the subject, or ignore it, or (worst of all) deny its existence. Somebody's going to get hit with some enormous legal bills at some point and perhaps those attitudes (where they exist) will change. Similarly, many full-bore studios for a long time denied or discounted lead (and other) hazards to their employees. Then even in its malnourished and underfunded state, OSHA showed up, shut them down, made them clean up (their acts) ... and those studios are now some of the loudest proclaimers of how important those concerns are. Nothin' like tappin' the ol' wallet to get one's attention. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:54:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:45:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copying patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:51:14 +0000 Message-ID: <199904061743.NAA12670@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > That's why Carolyn Kyle, the Wardells, et al. have their own > publishing companies. They make out far better that way, because > they get not only the artist's cut but the publisher's, the > distributor's, etc. But only when they sell direct to the end users ... and both Kyle and Wardell sell mostly to the distributors, as I understand it. Is it possible to buy directly from either of them? A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 12:11:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: site address Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:23:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.92317.0> Precedence: bulk I think I sent this already, but if I didn't, here it is again: http://home.earthlink.net/~asgitp/ Let's just say, it's a good thing I majored in nursing instead of computers. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 12:18:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:49:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Re;copying patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:55:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199904061748.NAA12707@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > and recently the company went after (and got) a 20-year extension of > that copyright (contrary to "normal" copyright law; just goes to > show you what you can do if you have enough money and hardball > tactics to throw at the supposed "powers that be").... Hm! I thought they'd gotten the law changed for *everyone, not just for themselves (although it was certainly themselves they were interested in, of course). A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 12:20:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:50:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Sharon Sheldon Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: copying patterns Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr6.3496.0> References: <<1999Apr5.144746.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Sharon: You were asking why the company sent you copies of the pattern book instead of the book for patterns to go along with your bookends. Actually you should feel very pleased with the company because the folk who make the bookends no longer include the pattern book with their product. Unless the company had a book, they would not have anything to send you. My supplier sells "copies" of the patterns for the bookends when you order the bookends. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 12:50:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:03:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "Jerri" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: nice site-----------oops Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:01:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.8142.0> Precedence: bulk Great site. But, what caught my interest is the "Miracle Mud" Has anyone tried it? I love to lead, but I don't because I hate the putty now available, the smell will leave me with a sore throat and keep me sneezing for days! Jill Medlyn -----Original Message----- From: Jerri To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 11:05 AM Subject: nice site-----------oops >You people are so picky. I tell you about a nice site, and you want me to >provide the address too! > >Sorry. (See why I don't post much?) My charming computer skills at work. > >Here's the address: > > >http://home.earthlink.net/~asgitp/ > >Jerri > > > > >>I just stumbled across this site. Some very nice work. I know I've seen >the belly dancer on another (SGB?) site. There's a beautiful peacock >screen, and check out the soldered sculptured dragons. They put the >creative casting type pieces to shame! > >Jerri > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 13:11:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:08:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 12:04:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990406120430.009ba7c0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> Precedence: bulk At 01:41 PM 4/6/99 +0000, Albert wrote: > >Yes, Jenna. And I didn't mean to be unfair, just to point out that we >all pick our poisons and when to take them. When my ex was >carrying my youngest, she stopped smoking *and drinking the whole >time she carried him. Granted, t'was only cigarettes and wine, but >still. He's turned out okay ... and might have in any case (who ever >knows?) apart from the fact that he's 17 and thus unbearably more >intelligent and wider read and more knowledgeable on every subject >than either I am or his mother to boot. Or that's what *he thinks, in >any case. > You're in for a thrill, Albert. You're going to get a *lot* smarter in the next couple of years! Funny thing...happens to every parent around the same time. ;-) Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 13:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:11:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Witchdoc3@aol.com'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Rapidset was:Lawn mower proof? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:13:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.111324.0> Precedence: bulk Where do you folks get Rapidset? All I see in the home stores around here is Quickcrete. Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 13:36:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:43:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" To: Paula Nelson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: saving scraps of glass Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 14:41:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.94158.0> References: <<1999Apr6.4476.0>> Organization: http://members.tripod.com/Northernlights/index.html Precedence: bulk FYI......surfing through EBay on-line last night I did a search of things for sale relating to stained glass....pretty interesting in general BUT I noticed someone auctioning off scraps of glass, something like 5 pounds worth, "perfect for a beginner or anyone working with mosaics." I'm not sure how much the bidding is up to yet on her/his auction, but I'll keep track of it. Guess there's always a way to make a buck in this world. (I'm wondering when/if she/he's going to start selling scraps of lead by the pound too!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 13:50:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:27:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:21:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.112141.0> Precedence: bulk Back in the stone ages when we didn't know how bad things were for you I was a potter. A pregnant potter. (cute ) I mixed my own glazes and probably did tons of stuff that was really unsafe. Fired plenty of things in my kiln without thinking of an exhaust fan. Although I was a vegetarian , a non-smoker and non-drinker I think that what I did extra probably outweighed the negative stuff I did. My daughter has always been around glass, lead, frits, enamels, glass paints you name it. And thankfully she is quite healthy. We all make sure that we get blood work done once a year. And have for years. I do think that common sense probably saved a lot of us in those days. We never ate in a contaminated areas. Changed out clothing as soon as we left the studio and made sure that we cleaned up after . What a quite gentler time that was. Now we have more vents, exhausts, filters, gloves, work clothes and detergents than we know what to do with. What can't get hosed down gets hepa filtered cleaned. What can't be vacuumed get disposed of in containers that would make Green Peace proud. We spend as much time cleaning out studio as we do working in it. We just installed an airbush cabinet for painting with a hood filter and exhaust that probably costs more than my first car. I know that the new kiln and hood did. But better safe than sorry. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy >> When stained glass >> is your business, however, you do not automatically have to stop. >> Just my opinion. > >Yes, Jenna. And I didn't mean to be unfair, just to point out that we >all pick our poisons and when to take them. When my ex was >carrying my youngest, she stopped smoking *and drinking the whole >time she carried him. Granted, t'was only cigarettes and wine, but >still. He's turned out okay ... and might have in any case (who ever >knows?) apart from the fact that he's 17 and thus unbearably more >intelligent and wider read and more knowledgeable on every subject >than either I am or his mother to boot. Or that's what *he thinks, in >any case. > >I'd just think the same kind of caution would apply where lead is >concerned, but as you say ... it's only MY opinion and quite >obviously, it's a decision I'll never have to make, given my gender. > >Best regards always, > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 14:05:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:31:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Albert Lewis" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:30:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.53037.0> Precedence: bulk Albert wrote, in part: Hi, Bob. You simply must, then, at some point, visit Cummings Studios here in North Adams. The unzipping room's tables have large heavy-duty vacuum systems over them, big tubes that can be moved to right over the work being done. The room is sealed off from the rest of the studio, the craftspeople wear respirators ... the whole nine yards. As far as I know, it's the only American studio that takes such steps.<< And visit I shall should I retire and get to traveling. New England is my old stamping grounds. Cummings Studios is the exception when it comes to safety when working with stained glass. Certainly I can make no claim to good safety practices at my studio but I have seen far worse. Stained glass is sort of a "pick up" art and many studios do what is convient or what they "think" is safe. There is an overall lack of knowledge of good safety practices. Anyway, with pregnant women I just play safe and discourage them from working with lead. Have even refused to sell it to them. There is plenty of other stained glass work that may be safely done. Seems a small inconvience over the alternative of taking an unknown chance with a fetus that you are going to have to nuture for the next eighteen to fifty years. My sister spends forty hours a week assisting with the care of eighteen disabled childen that are wards of the state. Something went wrong with these children and it can never be corrected. I do not subscribe or countersign to anyone that has taken the chance and got away with it. I take plenty of chances with my own body but do not feel that attidude should extend to the unborn. Bob Ps: I promise to get off this subject. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 14:13:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:06:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: artglass@waterw.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:03:09 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.2039.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 11:04:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, artglass@waterw.com writes: << Thats pretty simple......he makes x number of dollars on classes and more on supplies for those classes and builds up a relationship with his students. As opposed to selling this pattern one time to a person he will never see again. In the case under discussion, he was going to sell pattern and supplies. I further assume, since the buyer had a friend/relative some chance for repeat business existed. If the person who buys the pattern decides they want to sell the work they have create.....in reality yes it has taken money out of his pocket. So the retailer has lost theoretical money by selling the pattern, if the buyer decides to reproduce the piece for sale. What do you think the odds would be, that they were competing for the same customer? Real money, e.g. from the sale of the pattern pays bills. The bank won't take the lost opportunity money. This supplier also had these panels in his store for sale. And the person who wanted to buy the pattern wasn't going to purchase supplies from this retailer. >> Using your logic then, the retailer's special relationship students will really rob him blind, since they are local and have free access to his patterns. I hope he figured this lost opportunity into his class costs. To me, a pattern is a "potential" piece of art/craft. A craftsperson has a right to withold it, in order to limit the production of the piece. On the other hand, to sell to some and not others, or to attempt to limit production - for "personal use", has always seemed bogus, capricious and unreasonable. More and more, I find myself using patterns for ideas and deriving my own patterns. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 14:24:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:13:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: copyrights Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:02:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.6221.0> References: <<1999Apr6.3131.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi folks, Most of my experience is in patents (chemical, mechanical, and computing) mainly because I either have patents in those domains or are working on them presently. In spite of that, I do have some knowledge of trademarks and copyright law. However, IANAL and don=92t take my word= for it if you have any serious questions about any of this. Most of copyright law is straightforward, compared with patent law, *especially* US patent law, which is a total can of worms with those =93obviousness=94= and =93date of conception=94 and =93diligent pursuit=94 criteria. There = are MANY good books on the subject that can be found in any public library or bookstore. Note that there were sweeping reforms of the copyright laws in 1989 so don=92t bother with books printed before 1990. One of th= e reforms was that a copyright is now the life of the author + 75 years and can be extended by the author=92s estate up to two times for 50 (or 100, not certain) years each time. Prior to 1989 a copyright had a life of only 26 years. I=92m not 100% certain of those numbers, but I know they=92re very close . There were also some provisions for extentions= of copyrights established prior to 1989 for currently living authors to the new copyright laws. The provisions were somewhat detailed, and cost some money, so they didn=92t really apply to anyone but big name artists and/or creators. The =93its legal to reproduce portions of=94 part of current copyright la= w was intended for the critics (of whatever medium) to be able to quote from a literary work, musical work, opera, plastic arts, and so on, in a review without being sued. A pattern for stained glass work is intended to stand alone as an independent creation even if it is included as part of a larger collection. So, I would bet cash money that reproducing a stained glass pattern would stand up in court as copyright infringement even if the pattern is only a single part of a larger collection. For example, Robert Oddy has copyrighted (lets pick one out of the hat) that picture of the bamboo and the moon (most of the people here on this list know that work I=92ll betcha ). Now if someone copied that *exact* pattern, or even modified the pattern such that it was slightly different but still recognizable as originating from Robert Oddy, he would have the right to sue that person for copyright infringement. It seems unlikely that Mr. Oddy would sue for a single copy (assuming he even found out about it). Now if someone was offering something like a limited edition set of copies (say 1000 copies) for sale at, lets take a stab at it, $250 each, now we=92re talking about a business proposition worth $250,000 USD, then Mr. Oddy could do something about it, rightfully so, and it would be worth his while. Just guessing .... but compensatory damages would likely be on the order of 10 to 25%, or $25,000 to $62,500 + court costs, so it would be worth it to him to do that and thats not even considering punitive damages. Albert said : <<<< It's my understanding that only *registered copyrights can be enforced with damages (money) awarded. All copyrights can be enforced, but enforcement of unregistered copyrights can only result in getting the infringing parties to stop doing so. >>>>> A copyright is deemed to exist automatically upon creation of the work, with no registration being necessary. If a copyright is registered with the Copyright Office (which technically is part of the Library of Congress), on any copyrightable material, a certificate of registration will be granted without examination as to the work=92s novelty. That is,= the offensive rights granted by the US government to the author(s) of copyrightable materials are not dependent on the actual registration of the copyrightable materials with the Copyright Office. A copyright registration strengthens any case of an author against any infringement, but the offensive rights of the author are not attendant upon registration with the Copyright Office. The only thing a registration does is establish an unambiguous date of creation. = However, such a date may be established by a variety of other methods; registration of a copyrightable work with the Copyright Office is only one. = Patents are an entirely different story altogether. Getting a patent costs between $3,000 to $100,000 USD depending on how you go about it, where you=92re applying (US, France, Japan, etc), and who prepares it. = This is a long complex subject and one that has little application/interest currently in the stained glass biz, certainly not for this list , so I=92ll stop here on patents. Albert said : <<<< I'm not sure you understood, Bob, that I was making the difference clear between automatically copyrighted creative output (anything and everything one makes is copyrighted) and output the copyright for which has been *registered. >>>>> I understood perfectly Albert. But what I said earlier applies : A copyright is deemed to exist automatically upon creation of the work, with no registration being necessary. However, as I recall, the intent to copy plays a role in the litigation as well. That is, if I created a scene in stained glass substantially similar to some other person=92s but I could demonstrate that I had never= been exposed to the work (for example, if the work was part of a private home not open to the public), I would not be infringing the other=92s copyright even if it was virtually identical. Anyway ... gotta keep movin=92 .... lets get back to glass. Regards to all ..... Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 14:39:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:13:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Copyright... software Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:08:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.689.0> References: <<199904061320.JAA00843@aries17.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Charles Spitzer wrote: > well, almost. micro$oft copied their gui from apple, who took them to c= ourt > over 'look and feel' similarities, and lost. Charles, = Apple did *not* lose, the case was settled out of court. The desktop GUI that we have today was first conceived and the rudiments developed at Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center (called XPARC, or just The PARC by those in the field) in the 1970's though the general idea for a GUI actually dates back to the 1950=92s (back in John von Neuman=92= s time). The patent for the mouse was filed in 1968 btw. Mr. Steve Jobs et.al. at Apple Computer in Cupertino, California (just down the road from Palo Alto) got ahold of that work and eventually marketed as the MacIntosh computer. There were a lot of things in the Mac (of 1984) that were not in STAR (Xerox=92s original version of the GUI we have today). Mr. William Gates and Mr. Steve Ballmer of the then fledgling Microsoft Corp. in Redmond, Washington believed that this graphic user environment and the attendant operating system was the way of the future and they bet the farm on it. So, they pretty much copied the entire user environment (Mac and Star), renamed it Windows, and started selling it along with a few other computer programs to make the OS/GUI actually good for something such as word processing and so on. Apple Computer immediately recognized this as a knock off copy and took them to court on it. The case took some years to get through the process and a lot of other things were happening in the computer biz. Xerox Corp. got involved, saying that THEY invented it (which was only partially true) and weakened Apple=92s case. Actually, Xerox tried to sue both Apple Computer and Microsoft Corp. but the judge said they'd waited too long and told em to take a hike (I've translated liberally from the legalese ). Microsoft Corp. was gathering steam and settled out of court with Apple. The computer biz was moving SO fast that it simply wasn't worth pursuing. Apple's sales were by then dependent on having Mac-compatible versions of Word and Excel ... so settling the case out of court was in their interest as well. I'm sure all this historical stuff on the development of the PC is available on the web in more detail than I have recounted here, I=92ve included some references for those interested. Actually a LOT of stuff either came out of XPARC or from people who were trained there. For example, Dr. Bob Deering (a great guy I=92ve actually= met), now the resident egghead at Cisco, and the man in charge of IPV6, worked at XPARC and was essentially trained there. Then he went to the U.Cal.Berkeley where he got his Ph.D. and was also a professor ... where he was the leader of the group that developed the sockets paradigm used today as the basis for the internet. It was a government contract from ARPA that UCB got. When the US invaded Grenada, the military folks found they had all these computers that couldn=92t talk to one another. = So ... Pres. Reagan went through the roof, and MADE the military develop ways such that their computers could talk to one another .... the UCB contract was the result ... and following that ... the internet resulted =2E.. and we have our glass list . Anyway ... Lets get back to glass stuff. Best regards .......... Bob Some links for the history : = http://www.ambridge.nl/apple-history/GUI.html http://www.ambridge.nl/apple-history/GUIdiscussion.html http://www.ambridge.nl/apple-history/horn1.html http://www.ambridge.nl/apple-history/raskin1.html http://www.ambridge.nl/apple-history/horn2.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 14:52:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:52:47 +0000 Message-ID: <199904062045.QAA16140@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > My sister spends forty hours a week > assisting with the care of eighteen disabled childen that are wards > of the state. Something went wrong with these children and it can > never be corrected. Yes. My daughter-in-law is an RN who specializes in such kids up in Alaska. Must be a hard thing to deal with so much lost potential. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 15:15:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue Apr 6 14:07:51 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.114551.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE806E.8354F5F6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Steve Wernecke [mailto:steve@villagesoftsmith.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 3:05 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy At 01:41 PM 4/6/99 +0000, Albert wrote: > >Yes, Jenna. And I didn't mean to be unfair, just to point out that we >all pick our poisons and when to take them. When my ex was >carrying my youngest, she stopped smoking *and drinking the whole >time she carried him. Granted, t'was only cigarettes and wine, but >still. He's turned out okay ... and might have in any case (who ever >knows?) apart from the fact that he's 17 and thus unbearably more >intelligent and wider read and more knowledgeable on every subject >than either I am or his mother to boot. Or that's what *he thinks, in >any case. > You're in for a thrill, Albert. You're going to get a *lot* smarter in the next couple of years! Funny thing...happens to every parent around the same time. ;-) Steve ---- Steve You think it starts in their teens? My almost 4 year old thinks he knows more than Mom and Dad already. Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE806E.8354F5F6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: Stained Glass during pregnancy

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Wernecke [mailto:steve@villagesoftsmith.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 3:05 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy


At 01:41 PM 4/6/99 +0000, Albert wrote:
>
>Yes, Jenna. And I didn't mean to be unfair, just to point out that we
>all pick our poisons and when to take them. <smile> When my ex was
>carrying my youngest, she stopped smoking *and drinking the whole
>time she carried him. Granted, t'was only cigarettes and wine, but
>still. He's turned out okay ... and might have in any case (who ever
>knows?) apart from the fact that he's 17 and thus unbearably more
>intelligent and wider read and more knowledgeable on every subject
>than either I am or his mother to boot. Or that's what *he thinks, in
>any case.
>

You're in for a thrill, Albert.  You're going to get a *lot* smarter in the
next couple of years!  Funny thing...happens to every parent around the
same time. ;-)

Steve
----

Steve

        You think it starts in their teens?
        My almost 4 year old thinks he knows more than Mom and Dad already.

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE806E.8354F5F6-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 15:34:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:12:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Subject: What would you do? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:10:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.71052.0> Precedence: bulk Ten days ago I made a house call to close the deal on a stained glass window. Seemed like a sure sale. Everything went well until the end. When I quoted my price I was told that they would have to get back to me. A few minutes ago the homeowner was in and said that they had a couple of other bids that were lower than mine and would I lower my price. They did not give me any idea of the other design or the price. I politely declined and recommended they go with the low bid(s). So, what would you do? I know that if I lowered my bid I would resent doing the job. I've been down that road before and do not like it. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 15:53:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:51:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Unacknowledged lead hazards Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:25:45 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990406222545.007b1940@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk> References: <<199904061743.NAA12631@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk At 13:51 06/04/99 +0000, Albert wrote: >Similarly, many full-bore studios for a long time denied or >discounted lead (and other) hazards to their employees. Then even in >its malnourished and underfunded state, OSHA showed up, shut them >down, made them clean up (their acts) ... and those studios are now >some of the loudest proclaimers of how important those concerns are. >Nothin' like tappin' the ol' wallet to get one's attention. > Yes the same kind of thing happened several years ago in our area where one worker at a local glaziers was taken off work for a long time till his high lead level went down. The ironic fact was that he worked for a franchise of Stained Glass Overlay (SGO) which is only stickon lead - not lead came. His employer hadnt thought that the precautions should be applied to imitation stained glass work as much as to the real thing and got a hefty fine and had to reorganise the workshop to quite an expensive extent. What worries me at the moment is that I caught a showing on one of our Cable TV shopping channels over the holiday weekend offering rolls of stickon permaled at a fairly cheap price to the home DIYer/crafter with no mention that as it was *real lead* strip there might be a health hazard that needed precautions to be taken.!! We have sent off for a roll to see if any warnings are sent with the product and if not then a phone call to our local Health and Safety office will be in order I think. Plus a letter to the programme producers too if I can find an address. EliZabeth in Bournemouth http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 15:53:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:38:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: (no subject) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 14:10:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.71027.0> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk In that case, I'd stay away from lead not only during pregnancy, but for some time before and all during breast feeding. oh man, that could be OVER TWO YEARS away from glass...personally I think I just found another good reason to boost the profits of the good folks at enfamil if I ever had another baby..I would think too...if a mother has been doing glass all along prepregnancy..she might have elevated lead in her milk anyway....formula is not as bad as some of the nuts out there make it out to be..... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 16:10:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: thanks to all,copyright... Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:52:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.135216.0> Precedence: bulk I am going to be more diligent and draw these perfect little moons myself.....I don't want to take someone elses designs that they worked so hard on.....this way they will be mine....thanks to all...Abbie in Va ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 16:21:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:54:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Miracle Mudd (was: nice site-----------oops) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:25:50 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990406222550.0079fdc0@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk> References: <<1999Apr6.8142.0>> Precedence: bulk At 15:01 06/04/99 -0700, Jill wrote: >Great site. >But, what caught my interest is the "Miracle Mud" Has anyone tried it? >I love to lead, but I don't because I hate the putty now available, the >smell will leave me with a sore throat and keep me sneezing for days! >From what I have heard it is a great product and easy to use. Unfortunately no-one in UK imports it yet so we cant try it for ourselves. EliZabeth in Bournemouth http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 16:59:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:01:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Tue Apr 6 16:00:41 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.133841.0> Precedence: bulk i would not lower my bid unless it was just a couple dollars, and that depends on the $ amount of the bid. just like at shows when people offer you something for a piece, i am sorry i do not barter and this is not a flea market, it is an art. i thought when i got into the larger shows this would stop, but it doesn't. i also thought when i got my own studio i would not have people ask me to do that, but it does. my standard answer is that when you can get walmart to sell you something at the price you want them too, i will also. i know there is such a thing as a price war, but the glass industry is not big enough to have to do this. these people will get what they pay for. they will not get the quality and beauty of work you could give them,bob. even when i just started out and felt like i needed to find pennies on the street, i did not lower my price. and you will probably get the repair job, any way >bg< my useless $02 worth debbie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 17:23:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: test tubes Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:00:37 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990406190037.0069edf0@scci.net> References: <<1999Apr7.22450.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi all, Thanks for all the good test tube suggestions suggestions - especially the eBay one. I had never been to that site before. That was just way cool! And for those of you who are curious, I wanted to make some sort of contraption to hold a tiny bouquet of flowers as well as a place card for a table setting. The test tube is to insert to hold the flowers since soldered joints aren't water tight. Thanks again, Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 17:25:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:06:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:mschatee@juno.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Why he won't get my business Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:02:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.15241.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:mschatee@juno.com >I don't appreciate being embarrassed or patronize by a stranger.< I don't blame you and that is unexcusable on the part of the owner.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 17:38:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:16:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:17:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.91744.0> Precedence: bulk IMHO you did right by not lowering your price........If you think the design has been radically changed (simpler) offer to re-bid on the "new" design. There is usually someone who will do it cheaper, or just to "get supplies" or just to exchange labor for minimum wage. I usually over the phone quote $300.00 per square foot as a ROUGH estimate of what I charge for a window sight un-seen. I prefer lamps and do not care if I never get a window to do, and it is true, I rarely get a window for a commission. If that price does not seem outrageous, I will then look at a design, location, or what the potential client wants. Currently have 2 lamps to do. neither one is a "give-a-way" or for busy work. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 17:41:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:48:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 16:44:09 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990406164409.00bc38b0@atlas2.az.stratus.com> References: <<"1999Apr6.71052.0*"@MHS>> Precedence: bulk At 02:10 PM 4/6/99 -0700, you wrote: >Ten days ago I made a house call to close the deal on a stained glass >window. Seemed like a sure sale. Everything went well until the end. >When I quoted my price I was told that they would have to get back to >me. > >A few minutes ago the homeowner was in and said that they had a couple >of other bids that were lower than mine and would I lower my price. >They did not give me any idea of the other design or the price. I >politely declined and recommended they go with the low bid(s). > >So, what would you do? I know that if I lowered my bid I would resent >doing the job. I've been down that road before and do not like it. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass: have class. well, if i needed the money to eat, then i might have suggested something not quite as elaborate, or less quality glass, and cut the price somewhat. if you don't, then them asking if you'd match means they want you rather than the others and are just shopping for price. if you say no, then they might ask you to do it anyway if they perceive you as 'better' than the others. after all, i've asked for discounts in some odd places, and found that there are some hidden ones. if you don't ask, you don't get. you might only have to get close, and not match the low bids. when i replaced my $5k a/c unit, i went with a place that was initially higher than low bid, but matched so that it was only a couple hundred dollars away. the perceived value to that company over the low bidders' was worth (to me) the extra amount. regards, charlie phx, az ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:00:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:52:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:mschatee@juno.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Why he won't get my business Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:02:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.15244.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:mschatee@juno.com >So how do we do that without photocopying them. < We do it the old-fashioned way.... we do a scale original, then draft a full-size panel by hand, then trace a second (if necessary... we also English cut) using huge shee= ts of carbon paper. Yes, I know I should get a scanner and print them out.... but, look at it= this way. Next January when everyone else is dealing with Y2K challenges, I'll be catching up on= all my pattern drafting! ;-) best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:08:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: vvm.com!ktjude From: judy novak To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: scrap glass Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:27:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.132729.0> Organization: calumet farm and studios/glass & goodies Precedence: bulk Digging out scrap glass to sell to students and repeating the process........ I thought I would share our use of 'scrap glass'. We put the usable student scrap glass (they are given all the needed glass for their first project with the cost of the class - no matter how much they break incorrectly) into bins where we keep our scrap glass and the students may get their choice of glass from the bins to make additional 'sun catcher' patterns they wish to make outside of class for extra practice for $2.00 including 2 copies of a suncatcher pattern of their choice. They may purchase as many of these "packages" as they choose. The smaller pieces are placed into large plastic tubs with lids and donated to the art departments of local schools. They really seem to enjoy it and they make great stuff with it! This works for us........ keeps us happy and we sleep good at night! Ah, nothing like a good nights sleep! judy n ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:16:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:55:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What would you do? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:01:17 +0000 Message-ID: <199904062353.TAA20094@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > price. They did not give me any idea of the other design or the > price. I politely declined and recommended they go with the low > bid(s). Perfect answer, Bob, for two reasons: 1. If they were trying to "snow" you, they're stuck unless they come back and say "oh, we found out the lower bidders can't do it," or something like that. 2. You shouldn't work for less than you're worth anyway. Or for less than what you carefully figured the job *should cost. Don't let 'em grind you down. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:32:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:32:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Steve Wernecke Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:31:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.153157.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Steve Wernecke > You're in for a thril< Well, there's got to be some benefit to getting old.... ooops, who said that! Best regards, The Brat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:33:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:33:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob E Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: What would you do? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:32:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.15324.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob E Duchesneau" >I politely declined and recommended they go with the low bid(s).< There are lots of folks who work for less than we do.... I don't lower my= prices ever. I do, = however, make sure I mention my minimum price per s.f. very early on in o= ur conversations, and make sure they know what the MINIMUM price on that window of theirs might be before I do any serious designing. If they're going to gag at the price,= might as well be up front than after I've spent a bunch of time on them! best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:34:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:33:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "jazzykid" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: nice site-----------oops Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:31:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.153153.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "jazzykid" >I hate the putty now available, the smell will leave me with a sore throat and keep me sneezing for days! < Most all the putty should be basically the same ingredients: Whiting, boiled linseed oil, turp or mineral spirits, and I'm pretty sure most of the commercial mixes= include plaster of Paris, too, which archivally is a no-no. Some might also contain Japa= n drier. My guess is your allergic to the linseed oil... it's quite common among oil painters. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:51:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Elizabeth Arakelian Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Lead, pregnancy, breastfeeding. Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:54:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.13548.0> References: <<1999Apr6.71027.0>> Precedence: bulk > In that case, I'd stay away from > lead not only during pregnancy, but for some time before and all during > breast feeding. > > oh man, that could be OVER TWO YEARS away from glass... .personally I > think I just found another good reason to boost the profits of the good > folks at enfamil if I ever had another baby..I would think too...if a > mother has been doing glass all along prepregnancy..she might have > elevated lead in her milk anyway....formula is not as bad as some of >the nuts out there make it out to be..... .... but breastfeeding *is as good for the baby as they say it is, whereas Formula is not. Formula does not/cannot carry *specific antibodies for the individual childs needs. Breastmilk can and does. There are lots of reasons to breastfeed. If anyone wants some good information comparing benefits of breastmilk compared to formula in a non confrontational or judgmental forum, I will be more than happy to direct them to some good sources of information. Off list. I am *not looking to debate here. If anyone cares to educate *them selves so they can make an intelligent decision based on fact, not advertising, I will be happy to direct them to resources of reliable information, regarding the feeding of babies. I think you would be wise to listen to the World heath organization rather than to Carnation or enfamil however. No one should be judged by another for the choice to breastfeed or not to breastfeed their child. If a woman cannot or chooses not to, that is fine by me. I dont think Bungi is the forum to debate the benefits of breastfeeding or not to breastfeed. This has come up several times recently, and felt that each time women who breastfeed were called names. I held my mouth as long as I could. I like you Elizabeth, that is why I didnt say anything before....but it is too hard for me to continue. Tulsa Suzanne who never really minded being different, different makes you special, and several who love me compliment me by calling me a nut! ;o) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:53:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:21:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com, alewis@adelphia.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: (no subject) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 17:00:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.10029.0> References: <<199904062353.TAA20109@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > think I just found another good reason to boost the profits of the > > good folks at enfamil if I ever had another baby..I would think > > too...if a mother has been doing glass all along prepregnancy..she > > might have elevated lead in her milk anyway....formula is not as bad > > as some of the nuts out there make it out to be..... > > Nuts come and nuts go. I was born during a phase of "breast feeding > is bad for the baby." (Huh?) So I and my five brothers were all > bottle fed. Let's see: I'm doing okay. One of my brothers is a legal > eagle in Beijing with an international telco and lives there with his > wife and six daughters (and one son). The rest of us seem okay, too. > Ecclesiastes (I think it was) said it a long time ago: "there's > nothing new under the sun." Heck, my 17-year-old's wearing bell > bottoms! > > Formula's good. > > Albert Yes Albert, that is sort of the sentiment of my husband...his life was SAVED by formula...his mother had ulcerative colitis (geez and she was BREASTFED too..how could THAT have happened....) and she just couldnt do it....husband was ten weeks premature and they had to feed him the stuff by the dropperful....nowadays I am sure there would be some politically correct nurse trying to shame his mother into breastfeeding especially given the family medical history, or trying to get them to buy milk from a milk bank or even find a wet nurse (now THATS a concept especially in this day and age of AIDS..and dont EVEN get me going on the crap I saw a few weeks ago denying the risk of HIV transmission by breastfeeding to try and even get HIV positive mothers to try it)..I am sure they would be saying that if it could theoretically be done then she would be lazy and selfish not to do it, no matter what the personal cost to herself or her comfort level. dont get me wrong, its good women have been given more options but IMHO this whole "breast is best" thing has just gone way way WAY too far...also IMHO I think that it is a collective guilt on the part of those who were so hostile to nursing for so long that they (medical establishment and others) have just done a complete 180 to try and made amends for their past actions...there is a saying in psych circles that 180 degrees of sick is still sick and I think that that well applies here...going from one extreme to the other is almost always just as bad..I wasnt going to say anything in bungi about this subject further since I am sure most people in here really could care one way or another as long as the baby gets fed but since you brought it up.... \ Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 19:06:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:58:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!eastgatexx From: "Alan Terry" To: "Bungi" Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:58:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.105810.0> Precedence: bulk Congratulations! You and you alone know what price is going to motivate and compensate you. Lowering your bid is fine if you are motivated and empowered by the creativity/site/prestege/whatever of the job, or if you decide for YOUR reasons to do so. It's hell otherwise. My opinion... Best, Alan -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Bungi Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 3:39 PM Subject: What would you do? >Ten days ago I made a house call to close the deal on a stained glass >window. Seemed like a sure sale. Everything went well until the end. >When I quoted my price I was told that they would have to get back to >me. > >A few minutes ago the homeowner was in and said that they had a couple >of other bids that were lower than mine and would I lower my price. >They did not give me any idea of the other design or the price. I >politely declined and recommended they go with the low bid(s). > >So, what would you do? I know that if I lowered my bid I would resent >doing the job. I've been down that road before and do not like it. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass: have class. > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 19:30:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Hang it Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:02:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.15236.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Tim & Adriana Atwood" >I order mine through Lee Valley Tools catalogue (www.leevalley.com). < I've ordered magnets from them three times and they won't ship them into the U.S. The only other thing I'll say about Lee Valley is this: If you don't get= their catalog, sign up, they're the coolest ever..... Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 19:40:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:20:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uswest.net!jeriksen From: erik b eriksen To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: unsubscribe Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 20:20:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.152012.0> Precedence: bulk -- Your Account Information 8/3/1998 7:14 PM ______________________________________________________________ Name: Provider: USWEST.net Dialup access number: (515) 241-9180 Login name: jeriksen Login password: DKRVkBER Email address: jeriksen@uswest.net Email password: DKRVkBER SMTP server: pop.desm.uswest.net POP server: pop.desm.uswest.net News (NNTP) server: news.uswest.net Domain name: desm.uswest.net Primary DNS server: 207.108.32.1 Secondary DNS server: 204.147.80.5 Modem: Motorola ModemSURFR 56K External Other information: Provider's technical support number: 1-888-777-9569 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 19:56:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:37:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: (Fwd) Re: Stained Glass Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:32:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.173216.0> Precedence: bulk ----------------forward------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:00:44 -0500 From: Suzanne Reply-to: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com To: Albert Lewis Cc: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy SNIP > When Graham was about a year his lead level was up a little, and since > I was breastfeeding I got his pediatrician to test my blood too. Mine > is higher than the average person, but wouldnt be attributed to > glass work, since I hadnt gotten back to it yet. More likely it was > caused by living in a home that was built in 1924. < ----------------------------------------------- It also could be a phenomena we see with women who have a pretty good amount of lead stored in their bones. These women can cease all lead exposure and still see their blood leads rise a bit as they mobilize calcium--and hence the lead as well--from their bones during pregnancy and during breast feeding. Monona Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety 181 Thompson St., # 23 New York NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 20:36:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:32:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: judy novak Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: scrap glass Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 21:38:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.163815.0> References: <<1999Apr6.132729.0>> Precedence: bulk > I thought I would share our use of 'scrap glass'. > We put the usable student scrap glass (they are given all the needed > glass for their first project with the cost of the class - no matter how > much they break incorrectly) into bins where we keep our scrap glass and > the students may get their choice of glass from the bins to make > additional 'sun catcher' patterns they wish to make outside of class for > extra practice for $2.00 including 2 copies of a suncatcher pattern of > their choice. They may purchase as many of these "packages" as they > choose. > The smaller pieces are placed into large plastic tubs with lids and > donated to the art departments of local schools. They really seem to > enjoy it and they make great stuff with it! > This works for us........ keeps us happy and we sleep good at night! Ah, > nothing like a good nights sleep! > > judy n > Not only is that more than fair Judy, it is very generous. Way to go! ;o) T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 21:09:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Stained Glass Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:16:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.171650.0> References: <<1999Apr6.173216.0>> Precedence: bulk Monona Rossol wrote: > > ----------------forward------------------ > Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:00:44 -0500 > From: Suzanne > Reply-to: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com > To: Albert Lewis > Cc: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy > > SNIP > > > When Graham was about a year his lead level was up a little, and since > > I was breastfeeding I got his pediatrician to test my blood too. Mine > > is higher than the average person, but wouldnt be attributed to > > glass work, since I hadnt gotten back to it yet. More likely it was > > caused by living in a home that was built in 1924. < > ----------------------------------------------- > > It also could be a phenomena we see with women who have a pretty good amount > of lead stored in their bones. These women can cease all lead exposure and > still see their blood leads rise a bit as they mobilize calcium--and hence > the lead as well--from their bones during pregnancy and during breast feeding. > > Monona > > Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety > 181 Thompson St., # 23 > New York NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass In my situation, I hadn't done any stained glass work for at least 15 yrs prior to my pregnancy/breastfeeding. I didnt resume until after he was weaned. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 21:23:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:54:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ellenid From: Elleni Drafts To: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: saving scraps of glass Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:54:57 -0400 Message-ID: References: <<1999Apr6.4476.0>>> Precedence: bulk >FYI......surfing through EBay on-line last night I did a search of things for >sale relating to stained glass....pretty interesting in general BUT I noticed >someone auctioning off scraps of glass, something like 5 pounds worth, >"perfect >for a beginner or anyone working with mosaics." The first glass I bought was glass scraps for mosiacs. It was $1.50 a pound at a glass shop in Florida. Elleni ellenid@earthlink.net South Carolina - Smiling Faces - Beautiful Places ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 21:41:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:29:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberportal.net!dmj From: "Dean Johnson" To: "Bungi List" , "Sprecher" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: polarized film Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:04:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.19445.0> References: <<1999Apr3.7629.0>> Precedence: bulk Lynda: You can buy a set (you need 2 pieces) of 6" x6" polarizing filters from C&R Loo for $13.90. If these aren't shown on their website http://crloo.com, (not all their catalog items, especially tools, are on the site) then phone them at 800-227-1780. Edmund Scientific does have a website: http://www.edsci.com/ Elizabeth Johnson dmj@cyberportal.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 22:40:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:27:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Off to Las Vegas Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:25:10 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I am off to Las Vegas tomorrow. I doubt I'll be reading any email so if anyone needs any subscription changes done,...it'll have to wait till probably Sunday night. Sorry. Hope to soak up as much info as I can...see you there! -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 22:51:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:30:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: saving scraps of glass Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:28:50 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.42850.0> Precedence: bulk The local glass shop here sells scraps for $1.00 pound. You pick it out yourself from their "scrap boxes". Lets see...$39.00 for 5 lbs, or $5.00 for 5 lbs......... Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 23:49:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:34:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Subject: Breast feeding Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:32:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.153259.0> Precedence: bulk If God wanted mothers to feed their children formular He would have issued them can openers. Bob (just last year my mother told me she hired a wet nurse when she was sick. Explains a lot.) Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 00:14:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:11:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: saving scraps of glass Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 02:09:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.22917.0> References: <<1999Apr7.42850.0>> Precedence: bulk > The local glass shop here sells scraps for $1.00 pound. You pick it out > yourself from their "scrap boxes". Same way here.....and let me tell you...Ben's (the owners) definition of a pound is very heavy!! Need just a few pieces of a colour you are not likely to use again or to match something you may have 'goofed'? He'll tell you to take it....free. These are among the reasons why he get 95% of my glass dollars. Take Care, Soraya ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 03:58:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 03:14:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Melissa Hall'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: test tubes Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:16:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.21657.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry, I must have missed this thread first time around but if it's test tubes you want, did you try: http://sciplus.com/ American Science and Surplus They have EVERYTHING at discount prices. Linda -----Original Message----- From: Melissa Hall [SMTP:melissah@scci.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 7:01 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: test tubes Hi all, Thanks for all the good test tube suggestions suggestions - especially the eBay one. I had never been to that site before. That was just way cool! And for those of you who are curious, I wanted to make some sort of contraption to hold a tiny bouquet of flowers as well as a place card for a table setting. The test tube is to insert to hold the flowers since soldered joints aren't water tight. Thanks again, Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 04:58:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 04:04:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: a-znet.com!royalpane From: "Michael Bruno" To: Subject: Test Tubes Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:05:18 -0500 Message-ID: <199904071116.HAA30985@mail.a-znet.com> Precedence: bulk You might want to get a catalog from a high school science teacher for test tubes. A lot of the vendors will sell in less than 500 piece lots. Michael Royal Pane Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 05:59:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 05:12:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: ctombro@InfoAve.Net Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:18:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199904071211.IAA26781@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Just out of curiosity Albert, to your knowledge have any of these > worker's blood levels exceeded l0, especially with all of these > precautions which cost wise are probably beyond the reach of most of > us. I know you can't put a price on our lives or a baby's life, so I > am curious as to the effectiveness of these precautions. Since I was speaking of Cummings Studios, which is located in Massachusetts, it's that state's standard that governs. A booklet published by the State reads, in part: "The Lead Standard, written by OSHA, requires employers to do a number of things to make certain the workplace is safe. No employee should be exposed to lead at or above 50 micrograms per cubic meter of air (mcg per cubic meter) in an 8-hour day, the OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL). Clean showers, change rooms and lunchrooms must be provided and used. The Standard also requires air sampling for lead exposures, methods for reducing lead in the workplace, medical testing of employees to determine whether their bodies are taking in too much lead, and paid removal from the job in cases of lead poisoning." To answer your question about Cummings employees and whether any of them had ever had blood lead levels in excess of 10, I gave them a call. Sure, they said, but in the last 12 years, the time during which they've had rigid protective measures in place, only one employee has ever exceeded the mandated limit, which isn't surprising given the amount of restoration they do. Unzipping old windows is the largest source of lead being tossed into the air. I tried to get hold of Monona Rossol to see whether 10 is a reasonable number to expect even in major metro areas, but she wasn't available when I called. I'll copy this to her to see what she might have to say about that. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 06:59:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:00:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Lou Deskins'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Bag Balm Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:02:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.5246.0> Precedence: bulk Lou, Bag Balm is an utter cream for cow teats that is sold in farm supply and garden stores. It is also sold in sewing catalog for use by quilters who often prick fingers with needles. It is a petroleum base like vasoline with antiseptic. My Nany swore by it and it does seem that small cuts and hurts are much better by morning if Bag Balm is used. Try it, you will like it. A little goes a long way. Comes in an attractive square green tin. The small size (1 oz.) usually runs about $6-7 but heck you can get a 1 pound can for about $10. I have one of each and refill the small from the large. Glad you asked and hope you don't mind that I answered to the group as well. Linda Hi Linda - What is "Bag Balm" ??? I cut myself yesterday (just banged my knuckle on the edge of a piece of glass.....) and wonder if this is something that will help all those layers of skin that I took off grow back? >especially the Rx for Bag Balm. Use the stuff all the time - good for the >"occasional" glass cut. > >Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 07:17:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:06:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: What would I do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:25:03 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.1253.0> Precedence: bulk I guess because I live in a mainly hispanic community, the culture respects and appreciates bartering as an art form. This does not mean that one has to lower their prices during the barter. If you believe in yourself and your product, then when the customer wants you to lower the price, what they may truly want you to do, is educate them as to why your product is worth the extra dollar. I tend to like high-end products in general. I don't have a lot of money (I am a school teacher), but when investing in things that will last me as long as a stained glass window will....I think as a customer I would enjoy being reminded that this is not a product to "price" shop for. Albert is right, the reason the customer came back and made an attempt at trying to get you to lower your price is that they did prefer your work over the other bids. What they may have needed was an education. I went to Howard's web page, and he does this very eloquently by discussing the quality of glass that is used in all his work. Would I really want to buy a lamp, with Spectrum glass? I don't think so. But I need Howard to tell me why! Most people do not understand glass, stained glass, and what is involved. Don't be afraid to promote yourself... In terms of the bartering, if you imply to your customer that your work is superior for whatever the reason, then the customer wins by paying the extra price. That is what bartering in about. Both the provider and the consumer must feel like they are winning...when bartering is done right it is splendid! By the way, Wal-mart does barter...they will match any other merchant's price. But it really doesn't apply here...art is different. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 07:32:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!katmath From: "Kathy Mather" To: BOBDU@prodigy.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:06:12 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.13612.0> Precedence: bulk Bob, You know what your work is worth, to lower your price if you think that your price is fair would only be selling your self short. Let them go with the lower price, hold with what you think that you know your work is worth. Kathy >From: "Bob E Duchesneau" >To: "Bungi" >Subject: What would you do? >Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:10:52 -0700 > >Ten days ago I made a house call to close the deal on a stained glass >window. Seemed like a sure sale. Everything went well until the end. >When I quoted my price I was told that they would have to get back to >me. > >A few minutes ago the homeowner was in and said that they had a couple >of other bids that were lower than mine and would I lower my price. >They did not give me any idea of the other design or the price. I >politely declined and recommended they go with the low bid(s). > >So, what would you do? I know that if I lowered my bid I would resent >doing the job. I've been down that road before and do not like it. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass: have class. > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 07:41:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:22:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!katmath From: "Kathy Mather" To: ktjude@vvm.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: scrap glass Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:21:20 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.132120.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, When I started doing stained glass, the gentleman that I bought my supplies from alway gave me scrapes of glass for those small areas in a pattern that otherwiss I would have had to buy a whole sheet for. He saved me a fair amount of money over the course of a few years and kept me coming back to his shop even though there were other places that I could have gone. Along with the glass went his advice and expertise, and even though I never took a class from him, he would sit with me and help me with whatever problem that I was trying to work out. He is the only reason that I am still doing glass. Ok, that's enough from me, Kathy >From: judy novak >To: "glass@bungi.com" >Subject: scrap glass >Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:27:29 -0500 > > Digging out scrap glass to sell to students and repeating the >process........ > >I thought I would share our use of 'scrap glass'. >We put the usable student scrap glass (they are given all the needed >glass for their first project with the cost of the class - no matter how >much they break incorrectly) into bins where we keep our scrap glass and >the students may get their choice of glass from the bins to make >additional 'sun catcher' patterns they wish to make outside of class for >extra practice for $2.00 including 2 copies of a suncatcher pattern of >their choice. They may purchase as many of these "packages" as they >choose. >The smaller pieces are placed into large plastic tubs with lids and >donated to the art departments of local schools. They really seem to >enjoy it and they make great stuff with it! >This works for us........ keeps us happy and we sleep good at night! Ah, >nothing like a good nights sleep! > >judy n > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 08:41:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:34:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copying patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:40:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199904071433.KAA28587@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > sell. Finnally the question what is the hobbiest to do when the > studio/shop won't sell or help the hobbiest get this pattern?? Punt? No, seriously, you could take a good, stare at the pattern, commit it to memory, go home and draw it yourself. It'd be a great learning experience ... and you'd *own the pattern. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 09:11:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:34:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What would I do? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:40:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199904071433.KAA28586@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > respects and appreciates bartering as an art form. This does not > mean that one has to lower their prices during the barter. If you > believe in yourself and your product, then when the customer wants > you to lower the price, what they may truly want you to do, is > educate them as to why your product is worth the extra dollar. Note worth considering: Most cities and states inviting bids on a project will throw *out the highest and lowest bids, since it's assumed the highest is gouging (charging too much) and the lowest might have shaved profits so closely that they might go out of business before the contract's completed. It's possible that taking low bid is a bad idea, therefore, not to mention that it's OKAY to make a profit ... in fact, you HAVE to make a profit to stay in business (unless you're non-profit) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 09:13:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bugformance.com!bugs From: To: Subject: Reduce Your Debt, Increase Cash Flow Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 02:36:13 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Creditors calling...Bills stacking up? It happens to the best businesses, but we can help! We contact your creditors so they stop calling you, & negotiate your debts down to manageable terms to repair your credit and restore your financial health. We can even help you obtain financing for steady cash flow, regardless of credit or business history. Start concentrating on making your business prosper instead of worrying about paying your bills. Carta Finance will make it easy for you. Call us: 208-687-6262 Visit http://www.cartafinance.com or Mailto:cartafinance@apexmail.com ==================================================== Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th U.S. Congress this letter can not be considered spam as long as we include: Contact information & a Remove Link For Removal:MAILTO:REMOVE@NEW4UTODAY.COM ==================================================== ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 09:50:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg From: "Vincent LaGreca" To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:15:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.7150.0> Precedence: bulk Only you can determine how you will price your work. I can only speak for myself, but a lot has to be based on how busy or well you are doing. If you find that you are not getting enough work to be make being in business profitable then perhaps you could adjust your prices. Personally I try to negotiate for everything. Money is not the issue, it's the GAME I love. I have found through experience that most things are negotiable and depend on timing as well as quality. For example contractors quote differently when they are slow then when they are busy. Buying a Harley is cheaper in the winter in the northeast then in the summer and the same applies for boats etc. I just got estimates for stone work for my home, the contractor I am going with was smart enough to give me two quotes, one for now and a cheaper one for August when he slows down. My point is that you if you are successful and getting enough work at your price level then don't cut your prices if not you need to reevaluate your business plan. The artist that made the low bid may not be less talented than you, just hungrier. Ciao, Vic -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Bungi Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 6:53 PM Subject: What would you do? >Ten days ago I made a house call to close the deal on a stained glass >window. Seemed like a sure sale. Everything went well until the end. >When I quoted my price I was told that they would have to get back to >me. > >A few minutes ago the homeowner was in and said that they had a couple >of other bids that were lower than mine and would I lower my price. >They did not give me any idea of the other design or the price. I >politely declined and recommended they go with the low bid(s). > >So, what would you do? I know that if I lowered my bid I would resent >doing the job. I've been down that road before and do not like it. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass: have class. > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 10:17:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: gjr@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Off to Las Vegas Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:54:15 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.155415.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Folks, I know it's last minute, but I had to cancel my plans to go to Vegas, as we planned a visit right after, with one of my military kids, whose duty schedule has been altered because of the Kosovo refugee thing (eastern europeans to Guantanamo Bay Cuba?),and we have to leave three days earlier. I prepaid for two seats at a Fri Am business seminar, and one seat at a Sat Am advanced leading class. Since there are no refunds after 3/5.Can anyone use these seats/passes, free of charge? I am assuming that the show company would allow this? Hate to see this wasted, let me know, if anyone can use them. Richard Glassics Art Glass Valencia, Ca. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 10:28:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:37:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: scrap glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:44:58 +0000 Message-ID: <199904071537.LAA00437@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > He saved me a fair amount of money over the course of a few > years and kept me coming back to his shop even though there were > other places that I could have gone. Now there's a fellow with the right idea. "Whatever as ye sow, so shall ye reap," I think it goes. A big difference from treating the customers badly: "If it weren't for the customers, this'd be a good business" is all too often the attitude. Once is too often. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 10:48:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:45:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Miracle Mud II Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:44:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.44444.0> Precedence: bulk I emailed the Miracle Mud people and this was their reply. For those that might be interested. Miracle Mudd is sold in quantity, only to qualified distributors. Those distributors are: Lincoln Distributors, Art Glass House, Artisans Wholesale & Sunshine Glassworks. We do not sell it retail, or in any quantity other than six case minimums. Jill Medlyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 10:56:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:54:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would I do?/bartering Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:52:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.25243.0> Precedence: bulk General rule for bartering is a "retail value" for "retail value" Costs and labor should not be compared for un-like products and services. What you pay for that service or item in a store tends to set the value. If you have a chance to "barter".......give the VERY best you can do for the VERY best you can get (or need). I have been bartering for the past 18+ years for my stuff. Some were necessities and other stuff banal and or impulse items......I usually look for the best (my judgement) of what I (I always includes my wife getting first choice) like. Most of the "junk-art-craft-stuff" I own I would NOT have PURCHASED..........but do indeed enjoy having them. Most of the shades I have traded to others are still captives. As an aside, I have never seen a hearse go by with a U-Haul attached, nor are there pockets in a shroud. So much for my trinkets/treasures. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 11:12:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:58:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Light Box Diagram and Instructions Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:54:34 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.165434.0> Precedence: bulk Hello, I want to let all who requested light box instructions know that I have not forgotten you. I have your addresses and am ready to send instructions as soon as I can figure out why my scanner isn't scanning. Sorry for the delay, but they WILL be coming. If you are in a big hurry, send me your snail mail address and I will snail mail them to you. Once again, sorry for the delay. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 11:32:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Linseed oil, was Re: nice site-----------oops Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:14:08 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.17148.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/6/99 8:35:48 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: >My >guess is your allergic to the linseed oil... it's quite common among oil >painters. I second that. My mom started out as an oil painter and had to give it up when we moved away from sunny southern California where she could paint outside or with the windows wide open. She actually passed out a couple of times from the fumes. (She's now a fiber artist). I'd say go get yourself one of those organic vapor canister filter masks, post haste! Sparks (who still thinks linseed oil smells like home, but then so does motor oil, thanks to all the greasemonkeys in the family) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 11:45:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:16:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:14:12 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.171412.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/7/99 9:18:23 AM, cpjaram@7cities.net wrote: >By the way, Wal-mart does barter...they will match any other merchant's >price. But it really doesn't apply here...art is different. Of course not. The only thing Wal-Mart has in common with art is the last 3 letters! Sparks, off to the Chihuly show at the Delaware Art Museum ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 12:07:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:51:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Mynah Bird Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:47:41 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.174741.0> Precedence: bulk Thank you all who helped me find photos of the mynah bird. I now have enough to draw a decent bird. I really appreciate your effort and thoughtfulness. Will let you know how it turns out and what she thinks about it. Planning on trying to get it to rock back and forth on a perch. Wish me luck! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 12:21:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:03:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: rambling to negotiating Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:55:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.35511.0> Precedence: bulk I truly AGREE..........USUALLY there is no bottom price and the fun is in the negotiating not the BUYING. I used to be a garage to garage wholesaler, IE peddler (wagon jobber) and I deeply enjoyed the "wheeling and dealing" involved in getting into a new account or wresting it from an established jobber. I ENJOY a hearty give and take with my product, which included (long time ago) cold canvassing Rodeo Drive, Pasadena, and SF and a few other "posh" areas. The ethnic make up was of people whose heritage was bargaining (as is mine) and we all "got into the spirit" of negotiating. Sold a lot of expensive shades for MONEY now.....promises later! Spent a few weeks in the desert southwest (our country) and even found places to negotiate for Indian items, (made by them but not sold by them). I found a few "cousins" and they seemed to miss playing the game. Also have been to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Greece and Spain and Mexico and had some "very" spirited bargaining and many shopkeepers offered refreshments and seemed quite pleased by the game played by an "American". The seller always has the option to "just say no", as the buyer has the choice to walk away.......... I never do anything out of desperation, neither buy or sell. I used to also do a guest "speak" for the local SBA on the "art of negotiation" (my terminology). It went over well and I do believe a few students actually learned a few techniques from both sides of the negotiations. One of my goals is to deal on a Saturn.....I really want to see if the price is rigid......The dealing will be on a valueless trade-in... a 1983 Toyota, rusty and with 179,000 miles on it........should be worth at least $2,500 as a trade in (ha ha). enjoy (if you want to).............H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 12:51:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:07:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: "jazzykid" Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:12:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199904071804.OAA02819@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I emailed the Miracle Mud people and this was their reply. For > those that might be interested. Oh, heck. What's this "miracle mud" agan? I suspect it's dirt-in-a-box, something one can do oneself, but it would lack labels and packaging at 1/100th of the cost. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 12:57:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:22:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "glass bungi com" Subject: Re: scrap glass Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:20:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.102021.0> Precedence: bulk Kathy, And you know what that bit of glass and glass talk that he gave you, came back to him 10 fold. You both benifited from the arangement. Sounds like a good retailer to me. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Kathy Mather To: ktjude@vvm.com ; glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 10:40 AM Subject: Re: scrap glass >Hi all, > When I started doing stained glass, the gentleman that I bought my >supplies from alway gave me scrapes of glass for those small areas in >a pattern that otherwiss I would have had to buy a whole sheet for. >He saved me a fair amount of money over the course of a few years >and kept me coming back to his shop even though there were other >places that I could have gone. > Along with the glass went his advice and expertise, and even though >I never took a class from him, he would sit with me and help me with >whatever problem that I was trying to work out. He is the only reason >that I am still doing glass. > Ok, that's enough from me, > Kathy > > >>From: judy novak >>To: "glass@bungi.com" >>Subject: scrap glass >>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:27:29 -0500 >> >> Digging out scrap glass to sell to students and repeating the >>process........ >> >>I thought I would share our use of 'scrap glass'. >>We put the usable student scrap glass (they are given all the needed >>glass for their first project with the cost of the class - no matter >how >>much they break incorrectly) into bins where we keep our scrap glass >and >>the students may get their choice of glass from the bins to make >>additional 'sun catcher' patterns they wish to make outside of class >for >>extra practice for $2.00 including 2 copies of a suncatcher pattern >of >>their choice. They may purchase as many of these "packages" as they >>choose. >>The smaller pieces are placed into large plastic tubs with lids and >>donated to the art departments of local schools. They really seem to >>enjoy it and they make great stuff with it! >>This works for us........ keeps us happy and we sleep good at night! >Ah, >>nothing like a good nights sleep! >> >>judy n >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 13:15:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:25:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "glass bungi com" Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:23:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.102347.0> Precedence: bulk Jill, It worked good I don't have any complaint and my retail guy carries it. Give it a try. Just ask your retailer to get some next time they order from the wholesale hosue. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: jazzykid To: Bungi Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 1:48 PM Subject: Miracle Mud II >I emailed the Miracle Mud people and this was their reply. For those that >might be interested. > >Miracle Mudd is sold in quantity, only to qualified distributors. Those >distributors are: Lincoln Distributors, Art Glass House, Artisans Wholesale >& >Sunshine Glassworks. We do not sell it retail, or in any quantity other than >six case minimums. > >Jill Medlyn > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 13:32:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:02:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What would I do? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:09:14 +0000 Message-ID: <199904071901.PAA03867@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Of course not. The only thing Wal-Mart has in common with art is the > last 3 letters! Well said. Biz is biz, whether it's Walmar or Moi, Inc. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 13:55:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:17:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Scrap Glass Auction Update Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 14:17:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.91718.0> References: <<199904071537.LAA00437@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: http://members.tripod.com/Northernlights/index.html Precedence: bulk Looks like she's asking $39.00 for 5 pounds of glass with the buyer to pay shipping costs....just FYI! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 14:40:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:14:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bungi list... Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:14:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.12145.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Albert, The first time I downloaded the Bungi list everything went fine but the last update did not take....can you steer me to site...all previous e-mails of bungi have been deleted ....thanks for your time ...take care, Abbie in Va ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 15:03:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:17:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:24:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199904072016.QAA05229@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Albert...What is your problem??? We have been using MM for a long > time and have no complaints..It is not dirt... Its a very good > product...Sometimes I just can not understand your outlook??? T'was a joke, Walter. Mud .. dirt .. just add water? Still don't know what it is, where it's from. Vic gave me a URL, but it was broken. Still looking forward to more info. My outlook? Geez, it's around here somewhere. Lemmee look. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 15:10:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:20:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:54:26 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990406195426.007d2af0@pop.racsa.co.cr> References: <<1999Apr3.64131.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Someone suggested this a year or so ago, and I have had mine there ever since...works pretty well, if you get the teeth well engaged before you pull. Meg At 12:41 PM 4/3/1999 -0600, you wrote: >Linda Jo, > >Try hanging it on your rafters. Make a frame of 2x4s connected to to the >rafters at a comfortable height, attach it. Once attached you can pull down >instead of horizontally. I've been planning on trying this myself. Seems >like it would be safer also. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Linda Jo Letscher >To: bungi.com >Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 4:08 PM >Subject: lead stretcher > > >>I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of >>my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I >>move the workbench. >>So then I took it out on a flower bed that is brick and the small lip on >the >>stretche is enough to grab and pull but if I even give it the least little >>angle up off it comes. So do any of you have a suggestion where to put it? >>What I did do was I screwed it to a big tree in my front yard for now. I >am >>using vise grips for the other end which works ok, sometimes it bites a >>little hard into the lead and breaks but oh well...!! >>Linda Jo >> >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL Apdo 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 15:32:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:49:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, Walter) To: "glass bungi com" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:55:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.125551.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Linda Jo Letscher To: glass bungi com Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 4:21 PM Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II >Jill, > >It worked good I don't have any complaint and my retail guy carries it. >Give it a try. Just ask your retailer to get some next time they order from >the wholesale hosue. > >Linda Jo > >Ask your local retailer to stock MM...If not I'll be glad to ship you some Walter >-----Original Message----- >From: jazzykid >To: Bungi >Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 1:48 PM >Subject: Miracle Mud II > > >>I emailed the Miracle Mud people and this was their reply. For those that >>might be interested. >> >>Miracle Mudd is sold in quantity, only to qualified distributors. Those >>distributors are: Lincoln Distributors, Art Glass House, Artisans Wholesale >>& >>Sunshine Glassworks. We do not sell it retail, or in any quantity other >than >>six case minimums. >> >>Jill Medlyn >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 15:46:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:55:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Neat site if you got the time ;-) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:43:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.64349.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.mcphee.com/index0401.html Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 16:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Miracle Mud II Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:31:19 +0000 Message-ID: <199904072123.RAA06543@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Try http://home.earthlink.net/~asgitp/page4.htm Boy, there's not a whole lot of information there. I asked for an MSDS. We'll see. Thanks for the URL, Vic! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 16:17:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:24:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:31:19 +0000 Message-ID: <199904072123.RAA06340@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > You are right in a way Albert. It is a carton of dry stuff and a > bottle of liquid. ... I would like to save where I can if anyone has a > way to make up the dry and just add linseed oil or whatever to the > dry that would be great. I'll see if I can't dig up a recipe for you. Naturally, putty's been being made for a few (hundred) years. It's only recently that someone had the idea to put it in a box for you. Next: potting clay in a box! Just add water, mix and go to the wedging table. Of course, true porcelain would take a couple of generations to age properly. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 16:23:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:02:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during preganancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:12:03 +0000 Message-ID: <199904072004.QAA04910@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk Monona responds! ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > Since I was speaking of Cummings Studios, which is located in > Massachusetts, it's that state's standard that governs... The OSHA standard was written in 1978 and even in the preamble, OSHA said that their standard was not protective against reproductive damage since the removal provisions only kick in at 50 ug/dL. OSHA said that a blood lead of 30 ug/dL was probably a reproductive hazard to both men and women. And remember, that was in 1978. Now they know so much more. OSHA wants to change the regulation to make it more protective. > ... isn't > surprising given the amount of restoration they do. Unzipping old > windows is the largest source of lead being tossed into the air. < That sure is the most hazardous part of stained glass restoration. > I tried to get hold of Monona Rossol to see whether 10 is a > reasonable number to expect even in major metro areas, but she > wasn't available when I called. I'll copy this to her to see what > she might have to say about that. < The Centers for Disease Control has tabulated the last few years of adult blood lead test data and they now say that 0-10 ug/dL is the new "normal" for adults and that the mean average blood lead in non-lead working adults country wide is 2.1 ug/dL. I live in an old (as you know Albert) apartment in a part of the city that never sleeps and my blood lead is usually around 3 ug/dL. If I can do it, anyone can. Monona ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 16:35:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:41:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "jazzykid" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Miracle Mud II Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:39:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.133951.0> Precedence: bulk Yes, but what is IN Miracle Mudd? I'm not using it to cement my windows unless I know the ingredients are archival. Does it contain Portland cement and= plaster of Paris? Does anyone know? Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 16:52:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:41:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:MD6868@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Off to Las Vegas Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:39:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.133955.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:MD6868@aol.com > I prepaid for two seats at a Fri Am business seminar, and one seat at a S= at Am advanced leading class. Since there are no refunds after 3/5.Can anyon= e = use these seats/passes, free of charge? < That's awfully generous of you, Richard. Hope someone can take advantage= of such a great opportunity. best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 17:33:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:47:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:45:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.144543.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" > > Albert...What is your problem??? We have been using MM for a long > time and have no complaints..It is not dirt... Its a very good > product...Sometimes I just can not understand your outlook??? = T'was a joke, Walter. Mud .. dirt .. just add water? Still = don't know what it is, where it's from. Vic gave me a URL, but it was = broken. Still looking forward to more info. < Seems to me I am asking the same questions.... why? Because I build pric= ey windows and I better know that the ingredients of my windows are gonna outlive me= ! = What the heck IS Miracle Mudd? What is in it? Just answer that question, and I'l= l be able to tell you if it's something a professional would use on one of their commission= s. I don't = understand the hostility here. We're just being responsible merchants an= d craftsmen, that's all. Anyone who cares a shred about preservation asks these questions. Best regards, Dani Greer www.igga.org/greer/ "Craft is just art that has to work for a living." ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 17:41:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:57:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:56:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.85632.0> Precedence: bulk >>Bob, I think you made the right choice. They may not have even had other bids. Just trying to get the lowest price.<< Many, many thanks for all the inputs I have received. I think the above sums it up best. The potential clients do not in any way lack for money judging by their home, furnishings and cars. Begining to wonder if one or both are lawyers. What bothers me about the whole thing is that there was no hint that there would be other bids sort. They then said that they had two bids from a nearby town. I know the only two stained glass people there. One would not likely have bid on the job and if he did his price would have been much higher. The other person likely would have bid lower but they IMO are not up to a window of this nature. I like to barter but like to know when I am doing so. The bid I gave was a fair one and will not be changed. Should they come back I think I will take the job. No need to cut off my nose to spite my face. Bob Ps: Off to Vegas in the morning. Staying at Cricus Circus RV lot. Will wear bungi cord when I do the Convention Center Saturday. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 17:41:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:48:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Richard LaVal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:45:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.144546.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Richard LaVal >f you get the teeth well engaged before you pull. Meg< Also clamp the lead in so the heart is facing up... it'll grip better. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 18:04:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:28:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:23:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.152318.0> Precedence: bulk I am interested to see what this is. We mix our own cement and it is stored in two parts. I am curious as to what makes this a Miracle. If anyone happens to catch the Discovery Channel Giveme Shelter program. The mansion of the beach at Loveladies is one of our clients. What a house. It is not to be missed. We have another house in Philadelphia that should be on there soon. my best, pj (waiting on word of Miracle Mud....Paul asked if it was a facial cream) Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 7:21 PM Subject: RE: Miracle Mud II > >> Try http://home.earthlink.net/~asgitp/page4.htm > >Boy, there's not a whole lot of information there. I asked for an >MSDS. We'll see. Thanks for the URL, Vic! > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 18:17:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria and George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: what's up ??? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:32:22 -0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.63222.0> Precedence: bulk I Miss My Bungi !!! Have I been accidently disconnected ?? If so, please reinstate me. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 18:38:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:58:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: bungi--Richard's LV tickets Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:12:45 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.131245.0> Precedence: bulk I will forward your generous offer to my other traveling companions. I am in class all day Friday. Since I will be signing off until Monday, I won't be able to get back to you....I am assuming that if one of the other glass-alcoholics that are obsesssing with me this weekend, wants it, they can just show with a copy of your email. ** I'll advise that someone else may claim it. First come, first served?! ** ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 19:03:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:04:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: What I would do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:22:55 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.132255.0> Precedence: bulk I am truly embarrassed...I meant dickering or haggling....not bartering! God english is a hard language. I guess Wal-Mart doesn't barter...(sonsa, sonsa, sonsa *translation is fool ...she says to herself!) ps I will put bungi.com on my name badge for LV. Please say hi. cj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 20:05:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:01:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob E Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:00:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.18012.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob E Duchesneau" > Should they come back I think I will take the job. No need to cut off my nose to spite my face. Bob< You got the right attitude, Bob! Have fun in Vegas.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 23:35:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:42:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:41:28 -0700 Message-ID: <199904080541.WAA25641@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >What bothers me about the whole thing is that there was no hint that >there would be other bids sort. I'm with you on that one, Bob. I think it's only fair that people let you know that they're shopping around. My price doesn't change, I just don't invest much time in design work until I'm sure I've got the job. I also want to make sure the the client needs to understand they're going to be comparing apples and oranges if the designs are different degrees of complexity and if one design is lead, the other foil. >I like to barter but like to know when I am doing so. Unlike several others who've posted to bungi, bartering is something I have a huge amount of difficulty handling. When someone comes to me and wants to cut a deal, I find it very difficult to stay mentally present and pleasant since I feel personally attacked. I feel that they are devaluing my work and my skills, accusing me of unfair pricing, or in some way making a personal criticism. To me, this is the absolute worst part of my stained glass work, and it always turns out these are folk with money doing it...I dunno for the sport I guess. For me, being accosted like this is far worse than mudding, which I think won the "least favorite part of stained glass" title a few weeks ago. I've appreciated the comments on this thread...they've given me a new way of looking at people's tendency to bully around money...maybe some people are just doing what comes naturally to them rather than taking a pot shot at me. I will try and look at this as an opportunity for education rather than mentally putting up the protective gauntlets. Thanks. C. PS. While I don't lower my prices for these clients, I usually lose these sales because I find it almost impossible to be graceful under this kind of pressure...and these folk don't want to hear "no". Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 00:09:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:27:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!"gunnx4@" From: Suzanne <"gunnx4@"@ix.netcom.com> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: oops! Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 01:34:14 -0500 Message-ID: <199904080627.BAA22706@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Precedence: bulk I have had computer problems all evening after having a power outage. Had to uninstall all my online software, and reinstall... well...the good news is it works now...the bad news for me is I lost everything in my address book. So, if anyone cares for me to have their email address...please email me. :o( Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 00:35:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!"gunnx4@" From: Suzanne <"gunnx4@"@ix.netcom.com> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: never mind the oops! Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 01:36:11 -0500 Message-ID: <199904080629.BAA22844@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Precedence: bulk Im sorry, you guys...but please dont email me after all. :o) I have 700 some odd messages in my box, so most of your addresses are probably there! Thanks anyway! T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 00:46:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:45:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!"gunnx4@" From: Suzanne <"gunnx4@"@ix.netcom.com> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Subject: [Fwd: would you pass this onto to bungi. Thanks] Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 01:51:09 -0500 Message-ID: <199904080644.BAA24025@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Precedence: bulk Return-Path: Received: from nbserver.netbridge.net (mail.npt.clipper.net [216.116.36.12]) by ixmail6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7/(NETCOM v1.01)) with SMTP id PAA09296; for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [216.116.36.198] by nbserver.netbridge.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id oa496822 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:18:06 -0700 Message-ID: <370BDB1C.1D78@netbridge.net> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:28 -0700 From: Shirley Balloch Reply-To: balloch@netbridge.net Organization: Maiden Concepts X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-nnie30 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com Subject: would you pass this onto to bungi. Thanks References: <37007DF5.7C26@ix.netcom.com> <3702BD45.51A3@netbridge.net> <3702BEEA.18B1@ix.netcom.com> <3702C072.461D@netbridge.net> <3702C242.7C99@ix.netcom.com> <3702C44E.4F0B@netbridge.net> <3702C514.79AB@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com id BAA24025 This article is directed at smokers, but I thought it might be food for thought for us solderers. Vitamins Could Reduce Lead Levels in Smokers' Blood=20 April 7, 1999 (NYT Syndicate) - A new study suggests that vitamin supplements can reduce the elevated levels of lead found in the blood of heavy smokers.=20 Earl B. Dawson and colleagues from the department of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston measured the blood-lead levels of 75 men, ages 20 to 30, who smoked at least one pack of cigarettes a day. In an article published in the current issue of the Journal of the American College of Nutrition, the researchers reported that none of the participants had toxic levels of lead in their blood. However, some participants had lead concentrations above the national average for healthy adults and may have had mild symptoms associated with this higher level.=20 The researchers divided the participants into three groups and provided each with a four-week supply of vitamins or dummy vitamins. One group received a daily dose of 200 milligrams of vitamin C, a second received a daily dose of 1,000 milligrams of vitamin C and a third received the placebo.=20 After four weeks, vitamin C levels had dipped slightly for participants on placebo pills and had more than doubled for both groups taking the supplements. When researchers looked at lead, levels had slipped slightly in the placebo group and the lower-dose vitamin group. In the group taking the 1,000-milligram dose, blood-lead concentrations plunged by 81 percent in one week and continued to decline slightly for the rest of the study period.=20 The results of the study confirm previous reports that vitamin C reduces lead levels by decreasing its absorption in the intestines.=20 According to a 1997 government report, even mildly elevated blood-lead levels are associated with an increase in blood pressure. In high concentrations, lead exposure can damage the heart, brain, liver and kidneys. In children, moderate increases in lead levels have been linked to a decline in intelligence test scores.=20 But vitamin C may offer other advantages to smokers besides reducing blood-lead levels. In a 1996 article published in the journal Circulation, researchers observed that injecting chronic smokers with vitamin C neutralized oxidants, chemicals found in cigarette smoke that have been associated with narrowed arteries that lead to stroke and heart attack.=20 According to one of that study's researchers, Dr. Thomas Munzel of the University of Freiburg in Germany, injections of vitamin C helped smokers' clogged arteries to widen, lessening the risks of heart attack and stroke.=20 However, since the release of the Munzel report, the effects of vitamin C pills in smokers have been hotly contested, with some doctors suggesting that any oral form of the supplement would be insufficient to effectively widen narrowed arteries over time.=20 According to Darrel C. Bjornson, an associate professor of pharmaco-epidemiology at Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa, the jury is still out when it comes to evaluating the therapeutic effects of vitamin C in smokers.=20 In an interview, Bjornson said it would be difficult to evaluate the effects lowered lead levels had on the health of heavy smokers.=20 "Taking daily vitamin supplements of 1,000 milligrams won't cause any harm and may have some therapeutic effects," he said. "But it is difficult to measure the extent of those benefits. We do know that vitamin C is not a panacea and will not cancel out the damage caused by smoking. The best advice for smokers remains the same: Quit."=20 Journal of the American College of Nutrition (1999;18:166-170)=20 Copyright 1999 The New York Times Syndicate. All rights reserved.=20 Help | About Us | Register | Change Profile | Contact Us | Advertising | Professional Network=20 =A91996-1999 Inteli-Health, Inc. All rights reserved. Al= l information is intended for your general knowledge only and is not a substitute for medical advice or treatment for specific medical conditions. You should seek prompt medical care for any specific health issues and consult your physician before starting a new fitness regimen. Use of this online service is subject to the disclaimer and the terms and conditions . "InteliHealth" and "The Trusted Source" are trademarks of Inteli-Health, Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 02:03:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 01:09:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!winstonga From: "Winston Winston" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: What would I do? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 01:09:48 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.8948.0> Precedence: bulk One of the emails on this particular thread said that they would not buy a Tiffany lamp that was made with spectrum glass. I am new to stained glass work and live in an area that does not offer classes and I have not found a local expert yet. Why would you not buy a lamp made with Spectrum glass? I bought a Glass pattern magazine recently and wanted to make a pattern that called for Chicago glass. I called several of the mail order places, but they had a small collection of Chicago glass and could not help me. I assume that Chicago is a company that makes glass. How would you rank order the various glass manufacturers? I am not sure that my "newbie" eyes would see a difference in the glass. I have only made a couple of pieces, suffered minor cuts-so far, and have been really enjoying myself. I did take a beginners class, but I had to drive a couple of hours to Salt Lake City. Buck _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 04:09:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 03:23:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Winston Winston Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What would I do? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 06:05:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.23524.0> References: <<1999Apr8.8948.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk Winston, I've seen lamps that use Spectrum along with art glass that I really love. You might like to try Armstrong glass. They have some wonderful looking glass that would give great effects in lamp shades IMHO. Not as expensive either as other art glass. Carol T Winston Winston wrote: > One of the emails on this particular thread said that they would not > buy a Tiffany lamp that was made with spectrum glass. I am new to > stained glass work and live in an area that does not offer classes > and I have not found a local expert yet. Why would you not buy a > lamp made with Spectrum glass? I bought a Glass pattern magazine > recently and wanted to make a pattern that called for Chicago glass. > I called several of the mail order places, but they had a small > collection of Chicago glass and could not help me. I assume that > Chicago is a company that makes glass. How would you rank order the > various glass manufacturers? I am not sure that my "newbie" eyes > would see a difference in the glass. I have only made a couple of > pieces, suffered minor cuts-so far, and have been really enjoying > myself. I did take a beginners class, but I had to drive a couple of > hours to Salt Lake City. > Buck > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 05:09:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 04:28:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!mschut From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during Pregnancy Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:12:45 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990408071245.21d71712@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca> Precedence: bulk Many thanks to all who have responded to my inquiry. My wife and I have talked it over and as it turns out, she would rather take up quilting :-) and she wants me to try it to. She says that it would probably be very relaxing. just kidding. Because of all of your input, she has decided to put the stained glass aside for now and try a few patio stones. I haven't tried these yet and they look like a lot of fun. Does anyone know of any websites which may give insight on how to put these together, and can you make your own molds or are you better to buy the plastic ones in the shops? Would a teflon baking pan do the same thing? Once again thanks to everyone for their input. This is a very informative list with very informative people. Have a great day. Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut Moncton, New Brunswick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 05:42:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 04:57:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass Quality was: What would I do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:26:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.32620.0> Precedence: bulk I am repost this message from Buck so it would not get lost in another thread. I too am interested in Buck's question. How about it Howard, Albert.....others.... Linda -----Original Message----- From: Winston Winston [SMTP:winstonga@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 4:10 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: What would I do? One of the emails on this particular thread said that they would not buy a Tiffany lamp that was made with spectrum glass. I am new to stained glass work and live in an area that does not offer classes and I have not found a local expert yet. Why would you not buy a lamp made with Spectrum glass? I bought a Glass pattern magazine recently and wanted to make a pattern that called for Chicago glass. I called several of the mail order places, but they had a small collection of Chicago glass and could not help me. I assume that Chicago is a company that makes glass. How would you rank order the various glass manufacturers? I am not sure that my "newbie" eyes would see a difference in the glass. I have only made a couple of pieces, suffered minor cuts-so far, and have been really enjoying myself. I did take a beginners class, but I had to drive a couple of hours to Salt Lake City. Buck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 07:07:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:02:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Quality was: What would I do? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:09:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199904081301.JAA17369@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > How about it > Howard, Albert.....others.... > One of the emails on this particular thread said that they would not > buy a Tiffany lamp that was made with spectrum glass. Okay, my 2c worth: It's a subjective decision, one that each person would have to make. By my lights, though, no pun intended, Spectrum's got less "character" than other more textured glass like Uroboros, Chicago Art Glass and so on. Since a lamp's glass functions (or should) both in reflective light (when it's off) and in transmitted light (when it's on), glass that's livelier, more interesting, and changes character in either case is to be preferred. Besides, one inspects "objects" more closely, since they're close at hand. A window usually contains much more glass than a lamp, so cost of glass is a serious consideration; a lamp uses less glass, but it should be of a higher quality for the reasons stated above. My reasons, admittedly. Spectrum Glass is "machine made," that is roll-fed and that's good for many applications: it's predictable, easy to cut, can be used to assemble vast areas of glass (like windows) but for those same reasons lacks the "life" and "character" of hand-cast glass, which Uroboros, Bullseye, Chicago Art Glass and glass from other manufacturers have. Hand cast glass is more difficult to deal with than rolled sheet, but not that difficult. Lamps that are made with it are richer in color and texture, giving clients their money's worth in pleasure and use. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 07:25:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Neat site if you got the time ;-) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:01:45 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.13145.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/7/99 5:47:37 PM, computerministry@unitytustin.org wrote: >http://www.mcphee.com/index0401.html HUH????????? This is what came up: Thank you for visiting the IRS Voluntary Audit Page By logging on to this page, you have volunteered to be one of the thousands of American taxpayers who are audited each year. Volunteering for an audit saves the IRS the time and expense of manually selecting auditees, and consequently saves your tax dollars too! =8-O I don't think so............................. Sorry, Uncle Sam, you'll have to catch me first! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 07:37:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:03:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and sometimes getting them Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:02:15 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.13215.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/7/99 12:33:12 PM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote: >"If it weren't for the customers, this'd be a good >business" is all too often the attitude. Once is too often. Once I walked into a bank where, mounted next to each teller's window, was a plaque reading: "Customers are not an interruption of our work. They ARE our work." At the time, I was head teller at another bank, having to deal daily with two subordinates whose surly attitudes were prime examples of "what gives generation X a bad name." I wished to God I could put up one of those signs at each of their stations (or maybe tattoo it on their foreheads)...... I like the way Christie handles it when customers come in. She might be up to her elbows in something messy, or sitting behind the computer where she can barely be seen, and she may be having the Day From Hell, but as soon as anyone walks in the door, she always has a cheery "Hello....... If you have any questions about anything, please ask........" or something like that. You never know who's going to place a big ol' custom order after having "just wandered in off the street"................ Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 07:40:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:03:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do?/bartering Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:02:21 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.13221.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/7/99 12:58:49 PM, weaver51@teleport.com wrote: >Most of the "junk-art-craft-stuff" I own I would NOT >have PURCHASED..........but do indeed enjoy having them. I'll admit I've actually bought a few pieces of "junk-art-craft-stuff"..... Those "guilty pleasures," those "hate-to-admit-I-love-it" things, ultimately feed your soul as much in their own way as the "real works of art" do! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 08:04:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:51:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [Fwd: would you pass this onto to bungi. Thanks] Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:50:14 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Thanks for that info. Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 08:10:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:17:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:14:02 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.16142.0> Precedence: bulk At 01:09 08/04/99 PDT, Winston wrote: >One of the emails on this particular thread said that they would not >buy a Tiffany lamp that was made with spectrum glass. I am new to >stained glass work and live in an area that does not offer classes >and I have not found a local expert yet. Why would you not buy a >lamp made with Spectrum glass? I think the point that was being made was that the cheap imported stained glass lamps made in the Far East or Mexico and sold in the USA and Europe in lighting shops etc are made mostly of "standard" Spectrum and Armstrong glass. Often you see many designs all using the same three or four colours of glass making them less interesting to the stained glass afficianado (sp?) who prefers the more interesting and dramatic look of the more handmade less regular glass such as Yough, Uroboros, Chicago, Bullseye etc etc. Many stained glass lampshade makers have found that to use the more unusual glass means they can compete on the quality and individuality of the shades rather than trying to come down to the low prices the imports sell for - which when you think that the workers in the factories may not be getting paid more than subsistence wages they cannot do. We often try to show customers that by using the more interesting (but more expensive) glass for, say, an intricate many pieced "Tiffany" lookalike shade will often result in the customer being willing to pay twice as much as if they used the more ordinary glass. This way the crafter can often obtain something like a living wage for the time spent, or at least get proportionally more profit even after accounting for the higher cost of materials. However there is nothing wrong with Spectrum glass. They offer a consistent and wide range of colours and textures and we think the glass is one of the easiest to learn to cut accurately on - so tend to steer our beginner students and customers to Spectrum for its cutability qualities. Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 08:35:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:04:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: NG: rambling to negotiating Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:45:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.5458.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Howard" >The dealing will be on a valueless trade-in... a 1983 Toyota, rusty and with 179,000 miles on it........should be worth at least $2,500= as a trade in (ha ha).< Man, I had my 1983 Toyota Corolla with 113,000 miles on it STOLEN while rehearsing a music gig. It was the BEST car I ever owned. I'm still sad over it. I would gladly give you $2,500 for your "worthless" 1983 Toyota. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 08:43:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:45:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.54511.0> Precedence: bulk Ranking of glass manufacturers, from low-end to high-end.... (remember, this is just my own judgement) Spectrum (too smooth & plastic looking, but I do use a lot of it) Visa & Pilkington (mostly textured clears; easy to cut; some excellent textures) Kokomo (sorry to offend anyone, but it looks flat & lifeless to me) Armstrong (tends to shatter when cutting, but more interesting to look at= than Spectrum) Wissmach (better cutting than Armstrong, more interesting textures) Bullseye (expensive, but very nice patterns/color combinations) Youghiogheny (I'm a BIG fan of this company; lots of great colors, very hard to cut though) Uroborus (expensive, but extremely interesting specialty glass) Lambert (very expensive, but each piece is like looking inside a dream) Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 08:50:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:11:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Re: scrap glass and karma Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:19:34 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.81934.0> Precedence: bulk I couldn't agree more, Albert. I went in to pay my supplier the other day, asked for the total owing, and got told it was about $100 less than I'd expected. I thought they'd made a mistake and told them so. Sure enough, a little bit of checking and it was discovered that a keying entry had been made when I sent my last cheque. The owner, who was standing there while this was going on, ended up giving me a free pattern book, but even if he hadn't, I'd still be glad I told them. These guys give me excellent service, whether it's finding the perfect bit of glass or extending my payment term if I need it.....! They've always done the right thing by me, hurrah the good supplier, for all the great customers i may have in the future, the supplier makes my day. Katie. > >"Whatever as ye sow, so >shall ye reap," I think it goes. A big difference from treating the >customers badly: "If it weren't for the customers, this'd be a good >business" is all too often the attitude. Once is too often. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 09:07:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:23:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and sometimes getting the Date: Thu Apr 8 08:21:49 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.55949.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE81D0.ED79C034 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Salesman also have to learn not to prejudge customers. I was shopping with a friend a few years back at her regular jewelry store. The new salesman behind the counter pawned us off on a coworker after suggesting we might be out of our price range. It seems sneakers, denim cut offs and a tank top did not fit his image of upscale clientele(pronounced big commission). He realized his mistake when the head jeweler/owner of the store came out, gave my friend a big hug and waited on her personally. The end result was the coworker got a nice commission and he got a pink slip. It seems most of the stores regulars did not fit this mans image of upscale. Nor did the salesman fit the owners idea that he should be selling both the high and low end merchandise. Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 9:02 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and sometimes getting them In a message dated 4/7/99 12:33:12 PM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote: >"If it weren't for the customers, this'd be a good >business" is all too often the attitude. Once is too often. Once I walked into a bank where, mounted next to each teller's window, was a plaque reading: "Customers are not an interruption of our work. They ARE our work." At the time, I was head teller at another bank, having to deal daily with two subordinates whose surly attitudes were prime examples of "what gives generation X a bad name." I wished to God I could put up one of those signs at each of their stations (or maybe tattoo it on their foreheads)...... I like the way Christie handles it when customers come in. She might be up to her elbows in something messy, or sitting behind the computer where she can barely be seen, and she may be having the Day From Hell, but as soon as anyone walks in the door, she always has a cheery "Hello....... If you have any questions about anything, please ask........" or something like that. You never know who's going to place a big ol' custom order after having "just wandered in off the street"................ Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE81D0.ED79C034 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and sometimes getting = them

Salesman also have to learn not to prejudge = customers.

I was shopping with a friend a few years back at her = regular jewelry store.
The new salesman behind the counter pawned us off on = a coworker after suggesting we might be out of our price range. It = seems sneakers, denim cut offs and a tank top did not fit his image of = upscale clientele(pronounced big commission).

He realized his mistake when the head jeweler/owner = of the store came out, gave my friend a big hug and waited on her = personally. The end result was the coworker got a nice commission and = he got a pink slip. It seems most of the stores regulars did not fit = this mans image of upscale. Nor did the salesman fit the owners idea = that he should be selling both the high and low end = merchandise.

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 9:02 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and = sometimes getting
them



In a message dated 4/7/99 12:33:12 PM, = alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote:

>"If it weren't for the customers, this'd be = a good
>business" is all too often the attitude. = Once is too often.

Once I walked into a bank where, mounted next to each = teller's window, was a
plaque reading:

"Customers are not an interruption of our = work.
They ARE our work."

At the time, I was head teller at another bank, = having to deal daily with two
subordinates whose surly attitudes were prime = examples of "what gives
generation X a bad name." I wished to God I = could put up one of those signs
at each of their stations (or maybe tattoo it on = their foreheads)......

I like the way Christie handles it when customers = come in. She might be up to
her elbows in something messy, or sitting behind the = computer where she can
barely be seen, and she may be having the Day From = Hell, but as soon as
anyone walks in the door, she always has a cheery = "Hello....... If you have
any questions about anything, please = ask........" or something like that. You
never know who's going to place a big ol' custom = order after having "just
wandered in off the = street"................


Sparks

----
For subscription changes, please mail to: = glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      = please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE81D0.ED79C034-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 09:26:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:05:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Fw: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:52:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.05224.0> Precedence: bulk Hello All, This was a April Fool Page, if you follow the confirm, decline, or cancel buttons, it will take you to a companies page, where you can order a catalog that might have some stuff that could be useful to a glass artist... Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 07:35 AM Subject: Re: Neat site if you got the time ;-) | |In a message dated 4/7/99 5:47:37 PM, computerministry@unitytustin.org wrote: | |>http://www.mcphee.com/index0401.html | |HUH????????? This is what came up: | | Thank you for visiting the IRS Voluntary Audit Page | | By logging on to this page, you have volunteered to be one of | the thousands of American taxpayers who are audited each year. | Volunteering for an audit saves the IRS the time and expense | of manually selecting auditees, and consequently saves | your tax dollars too! | |=8-O I don't think so............................. Sorry, Uncle Sam, you'll |have to catch me first! | | |Sparks | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 09:39:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glass Quality was: What would I do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:26:26 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.152626.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/8/99 9:08:04 AM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote: >Spectrum Glass is "machine made," that is roll-fed and that's good >for many applications: it's predictable, easy to cut, can be used to >assemble vast areas of glass (like windows) but for those same >reasons lacks the "life" and "character" of hand-cast glass, which >Uroboros, Bullseye, Chicago Art Glass and glass from other >manufacturers have. Hey!!!!!!!! I didn't see that before I sent my reply -- honest! Guess I've been hangin' out with the wrong people for too long Sparks (still trying to figure out what I can say about the Chihuly baskets exhibit that won't earn my posting a rating somewhere between PG-13 and NC-17) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 09:41:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:09:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:06:35 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.15635.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/8/99 3:36:23 AM, winstonga@hotmail.com wrote: >Why would you not buy a >lamp made with Spectrum glass? Depends on the lamp. A "real Tiffany" style lamp requires glass with "character." It's a matter of texture, color, translucency/opalescence, thickness, all the things that make handmade "art glass" something close to a work of art in itself. Spectrum glass is machine-made for consistency of color, thickness, and "cuttability." It's great for beginners because it's so well-behaved, and pros (Bob Oddy and Ichiro Tashiro come to mind immediately) do some pretty amazing things with it, but a lot of people don't like it for lamps because it isn't "opalescent" -- that is to say, it doesn't diffuse the light the way some other glasses do -- it tends to show "hot spots"; it's either transparent or opaque, and Spectrum opaques are generally very "flat-looking." (OTOH, lamps are among the amazing things Ichiro Tashiro does with it; I suspect he's deliberately looking for a "flat" look in his work, which I'd characterize as equal parts of "traditional Japanese natural" and "stylized contemporary interpretation"..... must be a Zen thang.) >I bought a Glass pattern magazine >recently and wanted to make a pattern that called for Chicago glass. There's a good reason why so many designs call for specific kinds of glass. A high-end glass can be something approaching "an end in itself" in some designs -- the medium really is the message, maybe to a greater extent than in any other art form. Some people "design around" a piece of glass that "spoke to them." Substituting glass is a "black art" requiring an experienced eye and "feel" (see below). I suspect that if you make "the same thing" out of Spectrum, you'll be disappointed......... >I assume that >Chicago is a company that makes glass. Yup, their web site is at http://www.chicagoartglass.co m/index.html Delphi Stained Glass carries some Chicago glass: http://www.delphiglass.com/ and sells direct to the public. It's not cheap, around $15-$20 a square foot, but I'll bet it's worth it! (BTW, I've seen a "Chicago Art Glass" book at Borders. Lots of wonderful enormous off-the-wall modern windows etc. Once I and my wallet have recovered from buying the "Chihuly Baskets" book and the "River of Glass" video yesterday............) >I am not sure that my "newbie" eyes >would see a difference in the glass. Fear not, it won't take you long to be able not only to see the difference, but to *feel* the difference as well. One of the best things that ever happened to me was getting involved in that huge mosaic project, where we spent several weeks doing nothing but cutting and grinding 40,000+ mosaic tiles of all kinds of glass (and several more weeks working on the assembly and installation). The variety of (surface) textures and consistencies (physical properties) of glass equals the variety of colors. I was amazed at how some glass felt "soft" to the touch, some was hard and tough, some hard and brittle, some cut like butter in spite of being "hard" while some had a mind of its own, some felt almost "crumbly" in spite of being hard, some cut like "hard" glass but ground like "soft" glass, etc. etc. Glass is a truly sensuous material! >I did take a beginners class, but I had to drive a couple of >hours to Salt Lake City. Now that's either dedication or instanity! (I approve, whichever it is.) Anyhoo......... it's up to you what kind of glass you use for anything, but if you're going to put dozens or hundreds of hours into something that's going to live in your house (or someone else's) for decades, why not (assuming you can afford it) go for the glass that's going to send you into erotic meltdown every time you look at it? Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 09:52:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:33:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What would I do? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:40:27 +0000 Message-ID: <199904081532.LAA19073@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > However there is nothing wrong with Spectrum glass. > They offer a consistent and wide range of colours and textures and > we think the glass is one of the easiest to learn to cut accurately Oops! I didn't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with Spectrum glass, just that it has its uses and applications that (might be) are different than other glass. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 09:53:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:11:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: bungi , "glass@intrastar.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Smithsonian Craft Show plus Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 11:11:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.71120.0> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk two other shows in Virginia that are highlighted in today's Washington Post. Since some aren't going to Vegas here are some sites to learn from or even go to. Stuck at work on this beautiful spring day! They have a picture of "Robert Toensing's glass vessel uses a copper-foil technique from Louis Comfort Tiffany" here is the article http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-04/08/261l-040899-idx.html Does anyone know about this guy? and where I can find some more of his work? I tried searching but no luck so far. K See http://www.si.edu/youandsi/craftshow/start.htm http://www.artofglass.org/main.htm http://www.chrysler.org/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 10:07:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:51:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Mermaid Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:48:26 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.114826.0> Precedence: bulk seen this page of women portrayed in glass? if not, check it out beautiful designs and future designs http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ be warned - husbands will be more appreciative of some of these designs than your garden variety federation style! and don't take your kids to this site! tut tut, that owner looks too young to be creating this sort of thing! on second thought... maybe age has something to do with it! ;-) Katie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 10:21:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:16:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and sometimes getti Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:22:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199904081614.MAA19287@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > seems sneakers, denim cut offs and a tank top did not fit his image > of upscale clientele(pronounced big commission). There's a famous story about Grace Slick (lead singer of the Jefferson Airplane at the time) during the '60s, walking into an auto showroom (BMWs, Mercedes, etc.) and the salesman giving her the cold shoulder, 'cause you KNOW how she was dressed! I'd love to have seen his face when she bought an $80,000 car (or something like that) and took the cash out of her purse. Someone *else got that commission. Prejudging clients, ain't good. Heck, I have a friend who's one of the heirs to the Xerox fortune. She has $5 million a year in disposable income, but you'd never know it to look at her. Dressed down? You bet. Regular ol' car? Uh-huh. Nice, salt-o-the-earth person. Yes to that, too. Salesmen would make a mistake in her case, too. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 10:36:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:30:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Stepping Stones,,, Just a bunch of links I looked at,,, Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:19:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.2193.0> Precedence: bulk Hello to whom ever it was that wanted to change over to stepping stones for the time being because of the baby coming. I did a search on SavySearch http://www.savvysearch.com/search And came up with the following links that I have looked at, and found a lot of good information. http://www.glass-stones.com/construction.html http://www.rebeccasgarden.com/howto/items/98step11.html http://www.rebeccasgarden.com/howto/items/98ston01.html http://www.colebrothers.com/stainedglass/ http://www.colebrothers.com/wwwboard/ http://www.walkons.com/ http://www.komaromi.com/wwwboard/statuary/messages/1218.html http://www.oncapecod.net/glassgraphics/ http://www.theperfectsolution.com/stasup.htm http://www.castlestainedglass.com/stepping.htm http://www.glass-stones.com/ http://www.vcn.com/~slvr/steppingstones.html http://www.papillonpublications.com/index.html http://www.aerovisions.com/mutti/stones.html http://glassicarts.com/stepping.htm http://www.rebeccasgarden.com/ Hope this helps ya all to get started, and good luck with the changing over from lead to cement, watch out for the lime, and them lungs and hands,,, Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 10:44:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:18:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: Witchdoc3@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do?/bartering Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:16:24 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.161624.0> Precedence: bulk I couldn't agree more. My mother,was a great collector of "hate to admit I love it" junk crafts. If anyone at work was making anything, no matter how "tacky", Eunice would buy it, and always find a place for it. I know that stuff "fed her soul", as she was, in life, a remarkably kind and fun - loving person, but boy, some of that stuff!! Even now, when my wife and I see that stuff, she'll say,(in the So. California vernacular) Oh, My, God, wouldn't Eunice just love that stuff.. All craft work has a purpose, in my case, the "junk" stuff I see helps keep a good woman's memory alive for me. Richard Glassics Art Glass Valencia, Ca. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 10:49:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:44:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: famous at last Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:47:18 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.144718.0> Precedence: bulk Famous at last (Well almost) Germain has put one of my pieces of work in the Bungi gallery http://aries27.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/glass/gallery/index.php3?state=gallery Brandon S. Jones ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 11:04:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:51:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Christie A. Wood'" , Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:52:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.85251.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks, I printed that for future reference Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 11:21:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:02:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass Manufacturers Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:58:45 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904081701.MAA11568@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk I visited the Spectrum factory (in Woodinville, WA which is close to where I grew up and where most of my family still is) a couple of years ago. They were very nice and it was fascinating. In a few weeks I'm going on a day trip/bus tour (sponsored by one of the suburban Chicago studios I frequent) to Kokomo. I've taken the "tour" on their website, but am really looking forward to seeing the real thing (and contrasting their process with Spectrum's). Envy those who took the Warner/Criv trip to the Youghiogheny (sp?) factory. According to the "hierarchy," (was it Christie?) maybe someday I'll eventually work my way up to the top of the list.... Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 11:41:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:35:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Quality of glass Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:37:41 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.53741.0> Precedence: bulk Sparks said: why not (assuming you can afford it) go for the glass that's going to send you into erotic meltdown every time you look at it? ----------------- Well said!! I spend $200 on glass every time I step foot into my local retailer, buying pieces I fall in love with and have no idea in mind of where I will use them. In fact, I have a few that are just simply "too beautiful to use" in anything! Most of my friends/family say I am sick. But I don't think I've ever heard it said better! Thank you Sparks! Erotic meltdown! I love it! Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 12:03:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:10:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Glass Quality was: What would I do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:09:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.3956.0> Precedence: bulk First a MINOR observation.......there are NO TIFFANY LAMPS made with Spectrum glass...........There are MANY REPRODUCTIONS made with Spectrum and like type glass where the only factor is CHEAPNESS! As for using "good" or hand made glass and being able to get 2x as much for the shade as an imported one............still does not compute.......an import for $199.oo you do the same (assuming you can do as poorly) for $400.oo will still not get you a "living wage". I make ALL my panel production shades (100's of 'em) with Spectrum, (cheap, consistent, available, and matchable) and have NO qualms with using it. The old adage "the right tool for the job" is applicable here. Look at a few sheets of(do NOT use a cathedral) "art glass", preferably curious, end of day or un-cats (terms for non-production glass) from Bullsye, Uroborus and Yogo. Get someone to put them on a light table(do not forget to light it) and then, when you are finished DROOLING. switch it for a piece of Spectrum or other machine made glass. See a difference?????? My Tiff Repros have as much and sometimes more life than an original, due to the wider availability of "art glass", the tools to do a clean fit and neat soldering. Some of my shades are soft and subtle, others are LOUD. I do not feel MY shades should be lost in a decor, but stand out as a focal point. Time has not been a factor in my making shades, although IMHO I am pretty fast. Most shades are laid out (in pieces) on a large light table and I can see what I will have before I assemble it. enjoy H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 12:09:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:17:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: What would I do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:14:01 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904081715.MAA22523@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk >>...why not (assuming you can afford it) go for the glass that's going to send you into erotic meltdown every time you look at it?<< I have a couple pieces of Youghiogheny that I'm tempted to frame as is--can't yet imagine anything I could do to it that wouldn't diminish its awesome uncut beauty! Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 12:18:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:39:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "Bungi List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:37:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.93711.0> References: <<1999Apr9.114826.0>> Precedence: bulk > beautiful designs and future designs > http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ Wonderful work! It is nice to see someone doing something different. > and don't take your kids to this site! tut tut, that owner looks too young > to be creating this sort of thing! I find nothing offensive at this site....yes....artwork with nudity...but nothing my child could not see and deal with...but then I take her to museums and we look at 'classic' statues and paintings with similar themes.... Soraya ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 12:19:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:53:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: ktsplash Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:32:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.33210.0> References: <<1999Apr9.114826.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk ktsplash wrote: > > seen this page of women portrayed in glass? if not, check it out > beautiful designs and future designs > http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ > be warned - husbands will be more appreciative of some of these designs than > your garden variety federation style! > and don't take your kids to this site! tut tut, that owner looks too young > to be creating this sort of thing! > on second thought... maybe age has something to do with it! ;-) > > Katie > > ---- > oh this stuff is VERY nice...but I SWEAR I thought I was looking at a copy of "tattoo flash" magazine (my other preferred art medium besides glass). Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 12:44:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:05:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!deethom From: Dee Thompson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: bargaining Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 14:16:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990408141648.00771e28@pop.erols.com> Precedence: bulk >>What bothers me about the whole thing is that there was no hint that >>there would be other bids sort. THat always throws me off balance too. However, I can't blame people for checking around, I do it when I shop for an expensive item. Prices do vary, usually because of skill, pattern and the work involved....i do not leave the pattern with people unless they have paid for it. If they them choose to go with someone else using my design, I still got paid for my work, and for me, that's ok too... I like to design. If presented with a negotiation when not expected, I'm a little less off balance now a days...been surprised before and learned from the experiences. I tell them that is the price on the design and glass as presented, but if they wish a lower cost we can easily do some changes...then I offer cheaper glass, fewer pieces in the pattern, clear glass instead of bevels, etc. I can whip out a pencil, get a new sheet of paper and streeeetch the design so it has fewer pieces,, or take a leaf and make it one piece of glass instead of two or three, sure a little of the line is dulled and less interesting, but if they are happy, it's ok. It also teaches them to compare like designs and materials. I had a man offer less at a show than I wanted and responded to his offer of 250 on a 350 piece with 450. He was surprised and irritated. Well, ok, really p.o.'d and ready to fight. I kept smiling and said very nicely, that was the price before I knew we going to negotiate. Now I'm ready to bargain with you.;-) He came back later and bought the piece for 325...I felt comfortable giving him his pride at that discount. Dee ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 13:07:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:06:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:20:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990408102022.009b3bd0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr8.15635.0>> Precedence: bulk At 11:06 AM 4/8/99 EDT, Sparks wrote: > >[clip] > >etc. Glass is a truly sensuous material! > >{clip] > >(assuming you can afford it) go for the glass that's going to send you into >erotic meltdown every time you look at it? > Going for a cold shower now. ;-) Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 13:26:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: clientside-viennasys.com!sfairbairn From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: Mermaid Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:32:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.53255.0> Precedence: bulk I found nothing offensive or even slightly pornographic about his work. In fact, I was very impressed by his designs. Did anyone checking out his site notice that he is paralyzed and has been living in a wheelchair for the past 7 years? Steve -----Original Message----- From: ktsplash [mailto:ktsplash@mpx.com.au] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:48 AM To: Bungi List Subject: Mermaid seen this page of women portrayed in glass? if not, check it out beautiful designs and future designs http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ be warned - husbands will be more appreciative of some of these designs than your garden variety federation style! and don't take your kids to this site! tut tut, that owner looks too young to be creating this sort of thing! on second thought... maybe age has something to do with it! ;-) Katie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 13:45:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:35:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Erotic meltdown.... Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:35:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.113525.0> Precedence: bulk I always wondered what that was called...yep, thats it!!!!! Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 14:42:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:58:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: clientside-viennasys.com!sfairbairn From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: RE: Mermaid Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:02:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.7223.0> Precedence: bulk His links page lists a spinal cord injury site and the description of the site mentions that he is paralyzed and been in a wheelchair for 7 years. His picture page shows him sitting in a wheelchair. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Nadine Beth Schneider [mailto:nadinesfolly@erols.com] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 2:48 PM To: Steve Fairbairn Subject: re: RE: Mermaid I just went to his bio and it says he just graduated from UT. Did I miss something? Nadine > ** Original Subject: RE: Mermaid > ** Original Sender: Steve Fairbairn > ** Original Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:32:55 -0700 > ** Original Message follows... > > I found nothing offensive or even slightly pornographic about his work. > In fact, I was very impressed by his designs. Did anyone checking out > his site notice that he is paralyzed and has been living in a wheelchair > for the past 7 years? > > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: ktsplash [mailto:ktsplash@mpx.com.au] > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:48 AM > To: Bungi List > Subject: Mermaid > > seen this page of women portrayed in glass? if not, > check it out > beautiful designs and future designs > http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ > be warned - husbands will be more appreciative of some > of these designs than > your garden variety federation style! > and don't take your kids to this site! tut tut, that > owner looks too young > to be creating this sort of thing! > on second thought... maybe age has something to do with > it! ;-) > > Katie > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: > glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: > glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > www.nadinesfolly.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 15:06:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:09:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What would I do? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:13:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.111354.0> References: <<1999Apr8.15635.0>> Precedence: bulk > The variety of (surface) > textures and consistencies (physical properties) of glass equals the variety > of colors. I was amazed at how some glass felt "soft" to the touch, some was > hard and tough, some hard and brittle, some cut like butter in spite of being > "hard" while some had a mind of its own, some felt almost "crumbly" in spite > of being hard, some cut like "hard" glass but ground like "soft" glass, etc. > etc. Glass is a truly sensuous material! Wow, Sparks...Perfectly said some thoughts I was having earlier today. I had downloaded mail quickly and hadnt seen your post yet, but saw that someone had said that glass was sensuous. That's an understatement to me. While I was thinking about that I thought just what you said above! you expressed it well. > why not (assuming you can afford it) go for the glass that's going to >send you into erotic meltdown every time you look at it? Wow, everytime? I wanna know where you shop, girlfriend! ;o) T Suz > > Anyhoo......... it's up to you what kind of glass you use for anything, but > if you're going to put dozens or hundreds of hours into something that's > going to live in your house (or someone else's) for decades, > > > Sparks -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 15:25:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:11:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Glass Quality was: What would I do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:28:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.6280.0> Precedence: bulk I agree with Albert. Spectrum is very consistent, predictable and easy to cut. But somehow it lacks depth and character. These are hard properties to define, but when I stand a sheet of Uroboros, Bullseye, etc. up next to a sheet of Spectrum, they simply have more depth and richness than the Spectrum. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 15:36:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:29:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.4291.0> Precedence: bulk I would do pretty much the same as you did. I find I never do as good a job when I resent what I am doing. It is not that I am purposefully trying to do a lower quality job - it is simply that my heart just isn't in it so I am not as focused. There are a few cases where I might still go with a lower price for my work. They are all cases where I would be getting something else for it. If a project is exceptionally interesting or it allows me to learn about new techniques or expand my skills I might still go with it. Same thing where the piece will be in an exceptionally good spot for "advertising" and the owner has agreed to have a plaque with my name and/or some other method for people to contact me if the like the piece. And there are always those cases where someone has done me an exceptionally big favor and I am repaying them with a lower price. But if it was just a case of doing the same old thing for an average client and house, I would simply tell them to go with the lower bids like you did. Life is too short to waste my time being underpaid on something which does not expand my horizons. Even when business is short I would still do an interesting piece on speculation rather than selling myself short. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 15:46:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would I do?/bartering Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:55:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.65543.0> Precedence: bulk >>Most of the "junk-art-craft-stuff" I own I would NOT >>have PURCHASED..........but do indeed enjoy having them. > >I'll admit I've actually bought a few pieces of "junk-art-craft-stuff"..... >Those "guilty pleasures," those "hate-to-admit-I-love-it" things, ultimately >feed your soul as much in their own way as the "real works of art" do! > I don't even know what "real works of art" are. I personally prefer hand made items which have some undefineable quality I call "soul" or "feel". So this is what are gallery tries to carry and what I try to make. But I also know many people don't feel this way - nor even understand what I am talking about. I say that if a set of four exactly matching mugs from Walmart makes one feel better than some mismatched hand-thrown ones with character - then go for it. High art - low art - real - junk - all those labels aren't worth crap. The important thing is whether something brings you pleasure or not. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 16:07:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:12:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hang it Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:58:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.45820.0> Precedence: bulk I knew they could not be shipped by air. Supposedly they are strong enough to mess up aircraft instrumentation. However, I did not know this stopped them from shipping to the U.S. I believe they have set up a U.S. distribution warehouse in the last year. So maybe they will be able to start shipping the magnets direct from there soon. -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: Tim & Adriana Atwood Cc: Bungi Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Hang it >Message text written by "Tim & Adriana Atwood" >>I order mine through Lee Valley Tools catalogue (www.leevalley.com). < > >I've ordered magnets from them three times and they won't ship them into >the U.S. >The only other thing I'll say about Lee Valley is this: If you don't get >their catalog, >sign up, they're the coolest ever..... > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 16:28:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:11:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Second Notice/ Add me to your List Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:11:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.14114.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Folks, Could you please add me to the Bungi list again. Thank you, Tim Byrnes [tbyrnes@iconn.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 16:38:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:25:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Glass Manufacturers Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:19:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.141936.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Kaye Sodt" >Envy those who took the Warner/Criv trip to the Youghiogheny = (sp?) factory. According to the "hierarchy," (was it Christie?) = maybe someday I'll eventually work my way up to the top of the = list....< Actually, Lambert glass is top of my list, and that's from only working with one sheet of it. But, boy, what a sheet of glass! Saw another one (I think it was at W-C) that was so darn pretty it would be a sin to even think of cutting it. Just make a frame around the sheet of glass and hang it. But Youghiogheny and Urorborus are neck-in-neck for my everyday work. Love the life in that Uroborus heavy ripple. Hate cutting it. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 17:07:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: prejudice against customers........ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:19:08 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.23198.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/8/99 12:22:22 PM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote: >Prejudging clients, ain't good. I can't remember which snooty Ivy League school it was that wouldn't accept a skillion-dollar donation for a proposed new building from a bedraggled country-bumpkin-looking mom and pop who wanted the school to name the building in memory of their son. So mom and pop got miffed, moved out to California, built a whole freakin' university, and named it after their son: Leland Stanford, Jr. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 17:41:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:54:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.155444.0> References: <<1999Apr8.54511.0>> Precedence: bulk Christie A. Wood wrote: > Youghiogheny (I'm a BIG fan of this company; lots of great colors, very > hard to cut though) I too love their colors. When I got home from work today, I found my husband busy cutting some Yough...so far it was a six bandage day....I have a box just for Yough scraps, which I use for suncatchers and nightlights. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 18:00:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!survey From: To: Subject: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:41:01 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Vote YES or NO to SPAM! Dear Friend: Thank you for joining our opt-in list to receive this survey. This is not a SPAM. If you prefer to be excluded from our surveys, feel that this email has reached you in error, or if someone submitted your email address to us by mistake, please reply and type "exclude" in the subject header. You will immediately be excluded from participation on all of our future surveys. The hottest issue on the Internet today is unsolicited email, also referred to as SPAM. Some people believe that stopping SPAM would be an infringement on one's right to free speech, as well as freedom of the press. The guarantee of these rights outweighs the elimination of SPAM they receive in their email. People on the other side of the issue say that unsolicited email is an invasion of privacy and a nuisance. They also believe that SPAM should be illegal, as technically, they are paying the cost to receive it (via hourly ISP charges and increasing monthly charges) every time they log into their email. Which side are you on? Most of you are aware of the battle in the US Courts involving the legality of this issue. It is our intention for this survey to have an impact on the outcome of those decisions. The results of this survey will be published in national publications, submitted to the major commercial servers like AOL and CompuServe, submitted to television media for broadcasting, and submitted directly to legislators in Washington, DC. By taking part in this national survey, you will be helping to decide what outcome the law will have on this issue and help to offset the cost of publishing these results. Let your opinion be known! To participate, call: 1-900-737-0034 to vote "Yes" to SPAM, and 1-900-737-0035 to vote "No" to SPAM. You will be charged $1.99 for your call (which will help offset the cost of publishing the results) and you must be at least 18 years old to participate. VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE Survey brought to you by the Internet Polling Committee, Miami, Florida ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 18:11:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:36:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do?/bartering Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:35:23 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.223523.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/8/99 4:11:02 PM, atwoods@aisl.bc.ca wrote: >some undefineable quality I call "soul" or "feel". Next best thing to erotic meltdown........ and you can do it in front of the kids.... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 18:26:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:39:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ellenid From: Elleni Drafts To: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do?/bartering Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:40:03 -0400 Message-ID: References: <<1999Apr8.65543.0>> Precedence: bulk >about. I say that if a set of four exactly matching mugs from Walmart makes >one feel better than some mismatched hand-thrown ones with character - then >go for it. > >High art - low art - real - junk - all those labels aren't worth crap. The >important thing is whether something brings you pleasure or not. > Bravo!!!!! Very well said!!!! Elleni ellenid@earthlink.net South Carolina - Smiling Faces - Beautiful Places ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 18:31:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:47:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Soraya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:26:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.9262.0> References: <<1999Apr8.93711.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > I find nothing offensive at this site....yes....artwork with nudity...but > nothing my child could not see and deal with...but then I take her to > museums and we look at 'classic' statues and paintings with similar > themes.... I tend to agree Soraya...its a shame that people think "nude" is the same as "pornography" they are NOT one and the same...porn is designed to degrade and objectify real people whereas I think art is appreciative of the inherant beauty in the human form. Liz > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 18:40:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:14:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: The touch, the feel... Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:13:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.161339.0> Precedence: bulk Every now and then I find a glass that's wonderful to the touch...usually from the scrap bin and often I don't have a clue what it is. But I'll make a suncatcher out of it and then find myself at craFT fairs, standing next to the exhibit, fingering the glass. Erotic or what? And in public, for a real thrill... Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 18:55:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:56:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat From: Carolyn Noel To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Rapid Set Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:54:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.165424.0> Precedence: bulk --------------08543C641678E5D7EC5D9BFA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone: Rapid Set (concrete) has been mentioned quite a few times in the past, and I thought a web site had been listed. Local concrete suppliers have never heard of the stuff, so I was wondering if someone knew the site address or how to contact the manufacturer so I could see if there's a distributor in western Ohio somewhere. Thanks! Carolyn --------------08543C641678E5D7EC5D9BFA Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone:
Rapid Set (concrete) has been mentioned quite a few times in the past, and I thought a web site had been listed.  Local concrete suppliers have never heard of the stuff, so I was wondering if someone knew the site address or how to contact the manufacturer so I could see if there's a distributor in western Ohio somewhere.
Thanks!
Carolyn --------------08543C641678E5D7EC5D9BFA-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 19:23:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:17:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!deethom From: Dee Thompson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:29:43 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990408212941.00774ca0@pop.erols.com> Precedence: bulk Not only is this spam, but they now charge you for saying you don't want spam!!! what a world this internet is! DEE At 03:41 PM 4/8/99, survey@netzero.net wrote: >Vote YES or NO to SPAM! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 20:39:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:46:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson From: Paula Nelson To: Bob E Duchesneau , Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:10:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.16101.0> Precedence: bulk >So, what would you do? I know that if I lowered my bid I would resent >doing the job. I've been down that road before and do not like it. I think that after overcoming the shock of having them ask me to relook my price... I would have said the same thing. Knowing that my rates are fair, and that I'm a perfectionist - I hope they can live with what they get. Paula Nelson uitland@glassdogstudio.com The Glass Dog Studio http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm vom Uitland Rottweilers http://www.glassdogstudio.com/uitland.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 21:13:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:22:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: vvm.com!ktjude From: judy novak To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: tv tutu sighting! Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 22:20:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.172023.0> Organization: calumet farm and studios/glass & goodies Precedence: bulk Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public television! He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our local area. I personally want to thank you Patrick for your involvement in our community and your hours of dedication. You are the kind of people that make our community and hence our country so great! Thanks so much! The jewels on the fringed edges of the cobalt blue tutu added such a sparkle. I was in total awe of your gracefulness, your poise......... until the very end when you threw that old lady to the floor and wrestled the mike from her screaming "I want to tell them, I want to tell them!!!!!!!!" and they cut to commercial. judy n ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 21:24:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mar333Wood From: Mar333Wood@aol.com To: deethom@erols.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:15:21 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.31521.0> Precedence: bulk >Hi. This is the NetZero mail server. >I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. >This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. : >Account closed due to violation of user policy I replied with "exclude" in the subject line and this is the response. Makes one wonder about SPAM! Marti ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 03:44:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:34:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: survey@netzero.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr8.193520.0> Precedence: bulk Why did I get this BS thru bungi? === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 04:43:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 03:55:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:02:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199904091054.GAA04313@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Why did I get this BS thru bungi? Because this particular scam is itself spam. Note that you have to call a 900 number, thus *paying to complain about having received the message. Whoever sent it is both cynical and greedy, taking advantage of people's anger at having received it, then bilking them when (if) they call to complain. There's a single key on everyone's keyboard that takes care of such messages: DEL ... lower right-hand corner of PC keyboards. There isn't any more reason to be outraged by messages like these than to be upset that the smiling faces on Publishers Clearing House envelopes arrive in your smail box. What do you do with those? Write an angry letter? No, you just round-file them without a second thought. Same thing with spam. Just say delete and trouble yourself no more about it. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 05:14:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 04:13:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: ktjude@vvm.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: tv tutu sighting! Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:11:28 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.111128.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/9/99 12:14:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ktjude@vvm.com writes: > cobalt blue tutu Hey Judy, How much are you selling copies of the tape for???? I love cobalt blue, excellent choice Patrick. Thanks for making me smile Judy. IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 05:42:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: It's Red...... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:00:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.4040.0> Precedence: bulk The glass is from Youghiogheny...It's red and it's beyond words.....looks like fluid blood running through it ....it is wild.....wonder if it would scan.....you got to see it! Makes your heart pound.....abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 06:11:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:07:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: lol...Patrick... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:07:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.4720.0> Precedence: bulk Made my day....LOL.....great job Patrick....Abbie In Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 06:32:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:22:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: famous at last Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:20:33 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.122033.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Brandon, Very nice work! You certainly put great effort into it with all of the individual pieces for the wings!!! Lots of patience! Tell us, is this a personal piece or did you sell it on commission? Lenore P.S. I suggest others check out the bungi gallery too. http://aries27.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/glass/gallery/index.php3?state=gallery P.S.S. Thanks Daniel for your work of posting the photos of bungi members' work!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 06:50:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:26:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 05:20:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.222023.0> References: <<1999Apr8.193520.0>> Precedence: bulk Rick wrote: > > Why did I get this BS thru bungi? Because whoever wrote this is pretty sharp thats why. Who could POSSIBLY be against an ANTI-SPAM project? It would be like being against Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny. EVERYBODY hates spam right? As to why they did it in the first place .... remember what good old P.T. Barnum said about one being born every minute? These days its probably more like one every 5 milliseconds or so. Lessee ... approximately 50 million ppl on the internet (just using a round number for easy guesstimating, probably double or triple that nowadays). assume 25% of the ppl on the internet are recipients and further assume 0.5% of recipients respond (call the number). .... 50,000,000 x 0.25 x 0.005 x $2.00 USD = $125,000 USD Cost of the email : ZERO dollars (or almost) thats a pretty good profit for a VERY small investment ... and practically zero chance of legal actions ... I mean this isn't even ILLEGAL. I'll bet you cash money, at 10 to 1 odds, that there is no law on the books prohibiting this even though it is obviously a scam. could be even better actually .... if you assume that it reaches 50% of all internet users, and you have a 1% response rate (fairly typical I do believe) ... and you keep them on the phoneline for a longer period than "advertised ... say $5.00 USD worth .... 50,000,000 x 0.50 x 0.01 x $5.00 USD = $1,250,000 USD Don't know what their take is, but whatever it is, since the investment is low, this scheme would be referred to in the common parlance as "profitable". I admire original crooks though ... as long as its a victimless crime (non-violent that is) ... like the guy who did the very first skyjacking ... the one who got $250,000 bucks and jumped out of the airplane over the Rockies, the one who was never caught? Have to admire him in a way ... original thinking and all that. Regards to all ........... Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 07:14:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:59:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj From: Jim Gonzalez To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr9.51225.0> References: <<199904091054.GAA04313@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk > > Why did I get this BS thru bungi? > You got this because some clever person wrote an internet bot (short for robot) to retrieve web pages from all over the internet and look for the 'mailto' tag. By extracting the email address one could assemble quite an address book. If even 1% of those addresses hit a mail exploder like bungi that sends the spam to 500+ real addresses then BINGO they hit paydirt. So as Albert says: >There's a single key on everyone's keyboard that takes care of such >messages: DEL ... lower right-hand corner of PC keyboards. You should NEVER reply to them as it just adds one more valid email address to their address list. Email lists like snail lists can be bought and sold for real money. Jim ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 07:22:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:17:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.51738.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "The Banker's House" >I may have made a mistake in my last post.... lamp shade work.... isn't lampworking something in hot glass? No hot glass here yet.... didn't mea= n to be confusing.< Lampworking is also known as flameworking. It is when you create artwork by melting glass rods in an open flame. BTW, you are mistaken that there is no hot glass here yet. There are several bungians (for example, pj friend) who are primarily hot glass artists. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 07:39:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Rapid Set Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:17:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.51751.0> Precedence: bulk Contact Barbara Jack, owner of Inspirations, Inc. stained glass retail supply store. That's where I get my Rapid Set. Her husband is a big-time concrete contractor and gets the stuff. He will know who the distributors are for your area. 610-630-0933 Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 07:55:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:22:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:17:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.51749.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "The Banker's House" >Where are Visa & Pilkington and Lamberts manufactured? I am unfamiliar with them.> I believe they are ?South American? manufactured. They are carried by Rainbow Art Glass/Studio J (wholesale distributor & retail store) in Wall, NJ. Nice line of mostly textured clears. I use their Morisco frequently. Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:29:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Rapid Set Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:28:38 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.132838.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/8/99 8:56:15 PM, glasscat@infinet.com wrote: >Rapid Set (concrete) has been mentioned quite a few times in the past, >and I thought a web site had been listed. Local concrete suppliers have >never heard of the stuff, so I was wondering if someone knew the site >address or how to contact the manufacturer so I could see if there's a >distributor in western Ohio somewhere. http://www.rapidset.com/ Their web site doesn't have a distributors list but they do have a toll-free number: CTS Cement Manufacturing Co 800-929-3030 Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 08:19:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:32:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:30:15 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.133015.0> Precedence: bulk >At 03:41 PM 4/8/99, survey@netzero.net wrote: > >>Vote YES or NO to SPAM! I vote NO on this SCAM! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 08:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: tv tutu sighting! Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:34:37 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.133437.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/8/99 11:14:24 PM, ktjude@vvm.com wrote: >Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public >television! He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our >local area. Well, well, well! We have a celebrity in our midst! Patrick, I *do* hope you remembered to polish up that tutu before you went on camera. Fingerprints on your skirt are every bit as much a fashion no-no as "static klingons." (Fortunately Kem-O-Pro smells a lot better than Static Guard!) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 08:44:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:50:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "judy novak" , Subject: Rapid Set concrete Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:38:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.0383.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.rapidset.com/ http://www.savvysearch.com/search?q=Rapid+Set+concrete&op=p&cat= In my opinion, which is sometimes like obnoxious, this is the best search engine,,, http://www.savvysearch.com/ Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: judy novak To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 09:21 PM Subject: tv tutu sighting! |Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public |television! He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our |local area. |I personally want to thank you Patrick for your involvement in our |community and your hours of dedication. You are the kind of people that |make our community and hence our country so great! Thanks so much! |The jewels on the fringed edges of the cobalt blue tutu added such a |sparkle. I was in total awe of your gracefulness, your poise......... |until the very end when you threw that old lady to the floor and |wrestled the mike from her screaming "I want to tell them, I want to |tell them!!!!!!!!" and they cut to commercial. | |judy n | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 08:50:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:26:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: tv tutu sighting! Date: Fri Apr 9 07:24:29 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.5229.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8292.7DDCBA2A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I fully expect this to be included with the E-Tour tape. After all every serious subject deserves some levity. Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: judy novak [mailto:ktjude@vvm.com] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 11:20 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: tv tutu sighting! Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public television! He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our local area. I personally want to thank you Patrick for your involvement in our community and your hours of dedication. You are the kind of people that make our community and hence our country so great! Thanks so much! The jewels on the fringed edges of the cobalt blue tutu added such a sparkle. I was in total awe of your gracefulness, your poise......... until the very end when you threw that old lady to the floor and wrestled the mike from her screaming "I want to tell them, I want to tell them!!!!!!!!" and they cut to commercial. judy n ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8292.7DDCBA2A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: tv tutu sighting!

I fully expect this to be included with the E-Tour tape.
After all every serious subject deserves some levity.

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

-----Original Message-----
From: judy novak [mailto:ktjude@vvm.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 11:20 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: tv tutu sighting!


Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public
television!  He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our
local area.
I personally want to thank you Patrick for your involvement in our
community and your hours of dedication. You are the kind of people that
make our community and hence our country so great!  Thanks so much!
The jewels on the fringed edges of the cobalt blue tutu added such a
sparkle. I was in total awe of your gracefulness, your poise.........
until the very end when you threw that old lady to the floor and
wrestled the mike from her screaming "I want to tell them, I want to
tell them!!!!!!!!" and they cut to commercial.

judy n

----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8292.7DDCBA2A-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 09:02:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:55:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:42:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.04259.0> Precedence: bulk Well, it sounds like a generic garbage answer, just to throw you to left field, that you really gave them a valid email address, for them to sell. It is better not to respond to Spam, all you are really doing most of the time is providing verification that the email address is valid. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Mar333Wood@aol.com To: deethom@erols.com ; glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 09:32 PM Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM |>Hi. This is the NetZero mail server. |>I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. |>This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. | |: |>Account closed due to violation of user policy | | I replied with "exclude" in the subject line and this is the response. Makes |one wonder about SPAM! |Marti | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 09:10:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:30:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NOT GLASS-TORNADO Date: Fri Apr 9 07:29:24 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.5724.0> Precedence: bulk good morning everyone just wanted to take a minute to ask for prayers for cincinnati this morning. we were hit with a devastating tornado early this morning, and hale with 50 mile an hour winds to occur in the next couple hours also. for the amount of damage, the fatalities are low and the injuries are low. cincinnati hasn't seen anything like this since the xenia tornado 25 years ago. thank you, and i will apologize now for anyone who is affended by this posting... again, thank you p.s. if anyone has family or friends here, and you would like to e-mail me off list, i will do what i can to get information for you, or make phone calls for you! debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 09:13:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:02:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Erotic Meltdown Date: Fri Apr 9 08:00:57 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.53857.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8297.D8205DE8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In a message dated 4/8/99 4:11:02 PM, atwoods@aisl.bc.ca wrote: >some undefineable quality I call "soul" or "feel". Next best thing to erotic meltdown........ and you can do it in front of the kids.... Sparks Fair warning Sparks, If my wife ends up pregnant because of this thread you'll hear from my liar... er lawyer. Could this be the first maternity suit? Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com PS Don't worry I'll settle for a new soldering iron and some glass. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8297.D8205DE8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: Erotic Meltdown

In a message dated 4/8/99 4:11:02 PM, atwoods@aisl.bc.ca wrote:

>some undefineable quality I call "soul" or "feel".

Next best thing to erotic meltdown........ and you can do it in front of the
kids....


Sparks


Fair warning Sparks,

If my wife ends up pregnant because of this thread you'll hear from my liar... er lawyer.
Could this be the first maternity suit?

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

PS Don't worry I'll settle for a new soldering iron and some glass.

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8297.D8205DE8-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 09:41:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: What would I do?/bartering Date: Fri Apr 9 07:35:19 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.51319.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8294.41E3919A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >I say that if a set of four exactly matching mugs from Walmart makes >one feel better than some mismatched hand-thrown ones with character - then >go for it. > >High art - low art - real - junk - all those labels aren't worth crap. The >important thing is whether something brings you pleasure or not. > I disagree. The labels are important. You just need to understand them. High art is what brings you pleasure (erotic meltdowns and lesser feelings) just looking at it or knowing it is there. Low art is the stuff that matches the couch. Junk art is the stuff that critics rave about but no one understands with out a detailed explanation. And let's not forget: Real art. Real art is art that makes you think and gets a reaction from you. You like it, you hate it, it makes you laugh, cry, want to hug someone... Please note, if you don't understand it, it is not real. Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8294.41E3919A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: What would I do?/bartering

>I say that if a set of four exactly matching mugs = from Walmart makes
>one feel better than some mismatched hand-thrown = ones with character - then
>go for it.
>
>High art - low art - real - junk - all those = labels aren't worth crap.  The
>important thing is whether something brings you = pleasure or not.
>

I disagree. The labels are important. You just need = to understand them.

High art is what brings you pleasure (erotic = meltdowns and lesser feelings) just looking at it or knowing it is = there.

Low art is the stuff that matches the couch.

Junk art is the stuff that critics rave about but no = one understands with out a detailed explanation.

And let's not forget: Real art. Real art is art that = makes you think and gets a reaction from you. You like it, you hate it, = it makes you laugh, cry, want to hug someone... Please note, if you = don't understand it, it is not real.

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8294.41E3919A-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 09:48:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:17:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Classydad From: Classydad@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:15:16 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.151516.0> Precedence: bulk What type of material (preferably wood) do any of you recommend for a stop to be placed in front of a 19" round beveled glass piece to hold the panel in? The panel will be installed into a solid wood front door of a home. I've seen Home Depot-type "leaded" doors that have what looks like a 1/4" thick curved wood strip put inside the round opening to hold the panel in. Wonder if it isn't really wood. Would think that pine or other wood would break before it would bend to that opening. I plan to place a clear piece of glass in front of the leaded panel to protect it from outside elements, but not a clear piece to complete the sandwich on the inside of the door. That's where I need the stop. It will be painted over, so doesn't really matter what the material is made of. Thanks for any suggestions. Keith ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 10:05:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:23:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:29:28 +0000 Message-ID: <199904091521.LAA05737@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > >Where are Visa & Pilkington and Lamberts manufactured? Don't know "Visa," but Pilkington's English and Lamberts is German. > Anyone care to comment on English Muffle, or Desag Um, English Muffle's made by ... Armstrong? Desag's out of business, but was German. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 10:06:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: It's Red...... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:25:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.72540.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Evelyn C Mason" >The glass is from Youghiogheny...It's red and it's beyond words.....look= s like fluid blood running through it ....it is wild.....wonder if it woul= d scan.....you got to see it! Makes your heart pound..< I'm using it in a Victorian set of 3 windows right now. Very dark. I'm also using the Youghiogheny blood red with blue streaks in the same window, as well as the Yough dark ripple green, the Yough ice (both plain and ripple textures), Yough medium green in ice, and Bullseye cream/brown. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 10:14:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:09:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and sometimes getti Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:08:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199904091609.QAA11311@saturn> Precedence: bulk Hi All, I seem forever having to apologize about my absence recently... Lurker appears to have become my second name...:-< Have had my hands full, sorting out the hot water tank that burst and flooded my study, made the dining room ceiling collapse and subsequently flooded my dining room also.... Hot water tank now finally installed (....and costing US Dollars approx. 450); my study normally looks like a bomb-site.... but now it looks like TWO bomb-sites after pouring rain. Mopping up continues, carpet cleaning likewise.... a friend of mine talks to me through the hole in the dining room and tells me why don't I rip the whole lot down, because there appears to be some really old ceiling beams hidden underneath all this "wattle and daub". The ensuing mess just makes me feel faint and I call back to say that, "the house-sitting team" is most welcome to amuse themselves with this task in the summer during my absence in USA...... Back to Albert's point about never to judge a book by its covers; many years ago when my husband Brian and I were turning an old bakehouse into a residential home, I stumbled on an extraordinarily togged up strange visitor on the building site one day. There was this middle-aged woman in green woollen tights, bright red skirt, bright orange cardigan with holes in, and an old, ripped purple scarf. Her shoes were old, worn women's brogues and she looked a total tramp who had picked up reject clothes from a charity shop and then waded through mud in them. I was not a little surprised seeing her scrambling around the bake-oven opening. I asked her very politely if I could be of assistance. She explained to me in both language and accent that totally belied her appearance that she was very interested in what was going on in the village, especially any new projects - such as the Old Bakery ( which had stood disused since 1948). I ended up offering to take her around the building site to explain to her what we had in mind, which she accepted eagerly and followed me round the entire site. At the end of the "tour" she thanked me most graciously and apologized that she had not introduced herself right from the start. She told me that she was Rachel Bowes-Lyon and lived "down the road". She omitted to mention that she was in fact Lady Rachel Bowes-Lyon and a sister-in-law to the Queen Mother and that "down the road" is in fact a huge Estate where the Queen Mother used to spend a considerable time, when she was more "sprightly". The Queen Mother was in fact also baptized in the local little village church. .....And have I been "To Tea"?? Oh yes, several times! .....AND met the Queen Mother a couple of times there! Lady Bowes-Lyon was as eccentric as the "tramp" I found wandering around the building site, but a very shrewed lady, and enormously gracious and generous. A lesson in deed of how not to judge by appearances........ Back to "lurker-mode" and mopping up! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > Albert wrote: > > seems sneakers, denim cut offs and a tank top did not fit his image > > of upscale clientele(pronounced big commission). > > There's a famous story about Grace Slick (lead singer of the > Jefferson Airplane at the time) during the '60s, walking into an auto > showroom (BMWs, Mercedes, etc.) and the salesman giving her the cold > shoulder, 'cause you KNOW how she was dressed! > > I'd love to have seen his face when she bought an $80,000 car (or > something like that) and took the cash out of her purse. Someone > *else got that commission. > > Prejudging clients, ain't good. Heck, I have a friend who's one of > the heirs to the Xerox fortune. She has $5 million a year in > disposable income, but you'd never know it to look at her. Dressed > down? You bet. Regular ol' car? Uh-huh. Nice, salt-o-the-earth > person. Yes to that, too. Salesmen would make a mistake in her case, > too. > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 10:19:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:50:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:44:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.74443.0> Precedence: bulk Lamberts in manufactured in Germany. S.A. Benheims in Passaic and California are their US distributor. Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Christie A. Wood To: Bungi Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 11:13 AM Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines >Message text written by "The Banker's House" >>Where are Visa & Pilkington and Lamberts manufactured? I am unfamiliar >with >them.> > >I believe they are ?South American? manufactured. They >are carried by Rainbow Art Glass/Studio J (wholesale >distributor & retail store) in Wall, NJ. Nice line of mostly >textured clears. I use their Morisco frequently. > > >I forgot about Oceana. Don't know Lins. I would also rank >Oceana up there with Bullseye. I've only worked with a few >of the blue/green mottled and streaky Oceana pieces, but >they did cut well for me. > >Anyone care to comment on English Muffle, or Desag, or >any other glass manufacturers I've left off my little list? > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >http://www.igga.org/wood/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 10:31:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:24:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:19:24 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.161924.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/9/99 9:56:49 AM, Ensembles@compuserve.com wrote: >Anyone care to comment on English Muffle Isn't English Muffle a Wissmach line? Sparks (who also digs those Oceana blue-greens and is greatly amused by the name stamped in near the edge of the glass; it makes a fun addition to a mosaic piece) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 10:41:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:32:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Wholesale glass prices for a House of Glass Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 09:32:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.23215.0> Precedence: bulk Can anyone give me an idea of wholesale prices for stained glass? Say, a mixed case (464 sq ft)? Shipping to either California or Texas. iknowiknowiknowiknowiknow ..... it varies with color, number of colors, and so on. BUT .... some idea would be helpful. Even just a general rule-of-thumb percent reduction would be helpful. Feel free to send any replies by direct email instead of the list if you don=92t want to shout it to the world for business reasons. I=92m thinking about, strongly considering that is, building a =93house o= f glass=94 back home, on an isolated lake of course . A place to ge= t away from it all for now and retire to later. The walls would essentially be two sets of Japanese-style sliding glass doors with an outer set (facing the weather) being clear glass and the inner set being stained glass. Maybe some European style rolling shutters from floor to ceiling to close the place up tight when we're not there. A few partitions on the inside ... one does need privacy for, ahem, certain things ... couldn't be THAT expensive to build. Just trying to estimate costs. Thanks ............ Bob Compiled from previous posts Armstrong Bullseye = Chicago Art Glass Desag English Muffle Kokomo Lambert Lins Oceana = Spectrum Uroboros Visa & Pilkington = Wissmach Youghiogheny ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 11:11:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:14:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Erotic Meltdown Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:19:20 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.161920.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Vic M: >If my wife ends up pregnant because of this thread As a former Planned Parenthood education volunteer, I can advise you on lots of ways to avoid that :-) (Yeah, yeah, another former life...........) >Could this be the first maternity suit? Naaaaaahhhhhhhh........ maternity suits are what they sell in the "Mother's Work" mail-order clothing catalog. Honi soit qui mal y pense. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 11:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:16:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!kseeglass From: "K See" To: ktjude@vvm.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: tv tutu sighting! Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 10:16:01 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.17161.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks Judy for this great image. Hey Patrick if & when you get down here to Alexandria, I ask that you bare with me (no pun intended) while I try to hold a straight face. Ok..I have to ask How did the glass tutu start? K See (laughing till I had tears) >From: judy novak >To: "glass@bungi.com" >Subject: tv tutu sighting! >Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 22:20:23 -0500 > >Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public >television! He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our >local area. >I personally want to thank you Patrick for your involvement in our >community and your hours of dedication. You are the kind of people that >make our community and hence our country so great! Thanks so much! >The jewels on the fringed edges of the cobalt blue tutu added such a >sparkle. I was in total awe of your gracefulness, your poise......... >until the very end when you threw that old lady to the floor and >wrestled the mike from her screaming "I want to tell them, I want to >tell them!!!!!!!!" and they cut to commercial. > >judy n > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 11:43:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:26:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 10:22:33 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990409102233.0095f280@atlas2.az.stratus.com> Precedence: bulk well, if it's a curved piece of wood, you want a hardwood. you might be able to do this with red oak, but you'd have to steam bend it, which is not a trivial task in itself. you might want to talk to a local woodworker about this. regards, charlie phx, az >Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:15:16 -0400 >Subject: Suggestions for a stop >Sender: Classydad@aol.com >From: Classydad@aol.com >To: glass@bungi.com > >What type of material (preferably wood) do any of you recommend for a stop to >be placed in front of a 19" round beveled glass piece to hold the panel in? >The panel will be installed into a solid wood front door of a home. I've >seen Home Depot-type "leaded" doors that have what looks like a 1/4" thick >curved wood strip put inside the round opening to hold the panel in. Wonder >if it isn't really wood. > >Would think that pine or other wood would break before it would bend to that >opening. I plan to place a clear piece of glass in front of the leaded panel >to protect it from outside elements, but not a clear piece to complete the >sandwich on the inside of the door. That's where I need the stop. It will >be painted over, so doesn't really matter what the material is made of. > >Thanks for any suggestions. > >Keith >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 12:00:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:27:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Christie A. Wood" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: It's Red...... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:20:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.32038.0> Precedence: bulk I also like the red yogo..........wonderful for lamps, as the red does NOT go/get muddy....... the red mixed with ice white does adapt well for flowers. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 12:01:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:31:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig From: "Mike Figgy" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:29:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.92952.0> References: <<199904091521.LAA05737@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk How about Swiss Cheesed GlassWerks? > > > >Where are Visa & Pilkington and Lamberts manufactured? > > Don't know "Visa," but Pilkington's English and Lamberts is German. > > > > Anyone care to comment on English Muffle, or Desag > > Um, English Muffle's made by ... Armstrong? Desag's out of business, > but was German. > > Albert > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 12:12:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:39:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Albert Lewis" , Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:27:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.32749.0> Precedence: bulk Are you sure Desag is out of Business? They were/are part of Schott Glass, and from what I have heard from the West Coast Manager, they are still around. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines | |> >Where are Visa & Pilkington and Lamberts manufactured? | |Don't know "Visa," but Pilkington's English and Lamberts is German. | | |> Anyone care to comment on English Muffle, or Desag | |Um, English Muffle's made by ... Armstrong? Desag's out of business, |but was German. | |Albert |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 12:33:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:08:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!nbg3755 From: Nancy B Gildersleeve To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:43:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.64356.0> Precedence: bulk Actually, I knew someone who would stuff all the junk mail into the postage paid envelope provided and sent it back to the sender. That way the sender would at least have to pay for it twice. It is irritating to have already fat e-mail postings made even fatter by spam, though (and I'm sorry in advance for this contribution to the problem). Nancy G ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 12:42:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:37:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Classydad@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:37:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.10374.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Classydad@aol.com > Would think that pine or other wood would break before it would bend to that = opening. I plan to place a clear piece of glass in front of the leaded panel = to protect it from outside elements, but not a clear piece to complete th= e = sandwich on the inside of the door. That's where I need the stop. It wi= ll be painted over, so doesn't really matter what the material is made of. < Someone on bungi a long time ago posted that there was a vinyl molding available, but we've never tried any... you could use the time-honored technique of dyed= or stained rope (needs to be pretty thick.) And you can steam-bend your stops if yo= u want to go to all that trouble. = Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:02:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:38:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Rapid Set Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:36:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.103656.0> Precedence: bulk I just notice a 60 pound of Quickcrete from Home Depot costs just under $= 2 in the last sale flier.... makes you wonder what they do to that concrete before= they box it for stepping stones to justify the cost y'all pay..... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:15:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!gypsy2 From: "Sandy Gustafson" To: Subject: NG: Y2K VCR SETTINGS Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:51:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.105141.0> Precedence: bulk Subject: Y2K VCR SETTINGS What do you all think of this? Here is something I bet you hadn't thought would be an issue for Y2K. Some, if not most, VCR's won't be able to use the programmed advanced recording feature. "Do not throw away your VCR in the year 2000. Set the year on 1972 because the calendar days of the week and month will be the same as the year 2000. Please pass this on because you know the manufacturer will not share this information. They will want you to buy a new one that is Y2K compliant. Sandy G. in FL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:22:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:40:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:36:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.103653.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Christie A. Wood" >comment on English Muffle, or Desag,< English muffle is nice in its place.... I think Wissmach has the license = to manufacture it now.... I know it's not coming out of Australia anymore. Desag mouthblown is not being manufactured anymore... the kids got rid of that factory (too much work, I guess) but pj tells us the old Desag staff is coming on board with Lamberts (is that right pj?) to start up a second location. I'd be interested in hearing more about that and also what the latest is with Hartley Wood in England..... Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & STudios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:30:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:42:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:36:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.103651.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Christie A. Wood" >Lamberts manufactured?< Glashutte Lamberts is manufactured in West Germany and is probably the nicest glass this side of heaven. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & STudios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:41:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:42:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:05:22 -0700 Message-ID: <199904091705.KAA27480@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >What type of material (preferably wood) do any of you recommend for a stop to >be placed in front of a 19" round beveled glass piece to hold the panel in? Keith Try one of the plastic moldings that are available at the lumberyard. I've used them success on transom windows of 30" diamater and don't see why they wouldn't conform to a smaller radius curve. They come in "natural" wood grain and white. I suggest this since you are going to paint the door. If it was an expensive handmade door for a real upscale kind of installation where the natural beauty of the wood is important,I'd probably suggest getting a woodworker to do some kind of custom stop (like steaming the stop to shape) since the plastic would look tacky in that instance. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:46:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:52:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: tv tutu sighting! NG Date: Fri Apr 9 11:52:16 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.93016.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE82B8.07BDFCFC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Ok..I have to ask How did the glass tutu start? K See (laughing till I had tears) Patrick I leave this one to you. Remember most of it but your version has to be better. May be Toby will accept it in place of a Bio this weekend? Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE82B8.07BDFCFC Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: tv tutu sighting! NG

Ok..I have to ask How did the glass tutu start?

K See (laughing till I had tears)


Patrick

I leave this one to you.
Remember most of it but your version has to be better.

May be Toby will accept it in place of a Bio this weekend?

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE82B8.07BDFCFC-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:53:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:56:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: rrk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Wholesale glass prices for a House of Glass Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:53:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.105347.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by rrk >Can anyone give me an idea of wholesale prices for stained glass?< Well, Spectrum starts at under $2 s.f. and Lambert's can shoot up to over= $29 s.f. Dichroic is priced by the square inch so what does that tell you? These are wholesale prices. You can buy an awful lot of glass for between $5 and $= 10 a s.f., but that's still a heck of a price range. For a healthy budget, figure 500 s.f. at $5 for a $2,500 bill. That should get you a wholesale account somewhere with a business card, some letterhead, and business checking account. Bu= y from a wholesaler in California or Texas... Bendheims and Houston S.G. come to= mind.... to reduce shipping costs. And be sure to check building codes i= n your area! Glass houses are tough to get built - you might end up having= to sandwich that nice stained glass between two layers of laminated safety glass and, wow, that'll knock the price even more into orbit. Yikes. best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 14:07:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:41:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: net-port.com!columbine From: Ken & Barbara Larie To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Mailing list Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 14:29:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.92924.0> Organization: Columbine Stained Glass Company Precedence: bulk I was down for a week and I have over 300 messages waiting, mostly from bungi.com. Please take me off the mailing list ASAP. I can't deal with this kind of traffic, no time. Thank you for putting me on, and Thank you even more for taking me off. Barbara Larie columbine@net-port.com. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 14:14:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:03:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:01:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.12131.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Dani Greer >Glashutte Lamberts is manufactured in West Germany and is probably the nicest glass this side of heaven.< Yes, folks, I do know that Lamberts is manufactured in Germany, not South America. I just didn't read the original post correctly. Vasa is manufactured in Argentina. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 14:21:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:02:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: It's Red...... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:01:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.12129.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Howard" >I also like the red yogo..........wonderful for lamps, as the red does N= OT go/get muddy....... the red mixed with ice white does adapt well for flowers.< Yes, I like that Yough red in ice very much. However, I have this weakness for the gold/pink in ice ripple. Don't know why I keep making things hard for myself, but I just can't help picking the ripple texture over the plain texture every time. Sparks will verify that I'm a sucker for that ripple stuff. She calls the Yough pure cathedral red ripple the "666" glass (as in the mark of the beast from Revelations). But I like it. Guess that makes me the glass cutter from h*ll. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 14:32:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:31:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Rapid Set Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 16:31:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.123114.0> References: <<1999Apr9.103656.0>> Precedence: bulk But Rapid Set ain't Quickcrete! Dorothy Dani Greer wrote: > I just notice a 60 pound of Quickcrete from Home Depot costs just under $= > 2 > in the > last sale flier.... makes you wonder what they do to that concrete before= > > they box it > for stepping stones to justify the cost y'all pay..... > > Best, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 14:44:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:38:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: ktsplash Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:37:31 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.223731.0> References: <<1999Apr9.114826.0@?>> Precedence: bulk I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but... I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this site justified. To me it shows the use of the image of women as means to get attention. Steve In message <1999Apr9.114826.0@?>, ktsplash writes >seen this page of women portrayed in glass? if not, check it out >beautiful designs and future designs >http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ >be warned - husbands will be more appreciative of some of these designs than >your garden variety federation style! >and don't take your kids to this site! tut tut, that owner looks too young >to be creating this sort of thing! >on second thought... maybe age has something to do with it! ;-) > >Katie > > > > > > > > > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 15:00:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:41:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:31:01 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.20311.0> Precedence: bulk Bud Britt's enquiring mind wants to know: >Are you sure Desag is out of Business? They were/are part of Schott Glass, >and from what I have heard from the West Coast Manager, they are still >around. Lemme see, somebody posted about that not too long ago......... Yup, found it, here's what's happenin' with Desag (according to pj friend, March 19, 1999): ------------------------------------------------- Desag is owned by Shultz Glass. About six months ago or so they stopped making hand-blown glass. Shut down the studio completely. So the Desag before was all hand-blown . Lamberts built a new studio and hired all the Desag guys and are going to reproduce the hand-blown again. All those great colors......I can't wait. ------------------------------------------------- Sounds to me like Desag may still be out there but not doing hand-blown any more????? Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 15:14:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: red.... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:15:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.13156.0> Precedence: bulk It is beautiful...... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 15:33:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:35:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Pa. glass... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:35:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.13357.0> Precedence: bulk I picked mine up last summer on a trip up to Youg. Station.....I didn't get to tour plant...it was Sunday....I really want to go back.....maybe a side trip from WC'S "Vissions" weekend????? Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 15:44:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:39:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:38:12 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990409223812.007a53f0@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk> References: <<1999Apr9.103653.0>> Precedence: bulk At 14:36 09/04/99 -0400, Dani wrote: I'd be interested in hearing more about >that and also >what the latest is with Hartley Wood in England..... Hartley Wood is dead but the new company being set up in its place (we hope) is to be known as Sunderland Glass I hear. Our supplier is expecting delivery of stocks of glass any day now and has promised to let us know soonest just what has arrived and whether it is as good as the old HW glass. Fingers crossed! EliZabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 15:57:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:50:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Thank you to All Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 17:48:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.134810.0> Precedence: bulk Hi , Just wanted to ackowledge to everyone that I appreciated, all the responses to my reguest to be added to the list. Thank you again, Tim Byrnes ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 16:09:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:59:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Ken & Barbara Larie Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Mailing list Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:43:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.134323.0> Precedence: bulk You'll have to wait until Monday since the list administrator, Glenna Ran= d is in = Las Vegas at the Glass Expo. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 16:14:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:01:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: Ensembles@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Re: It's Red...... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:47:35 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.214735.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/9/99 4:22:40 PM, Ensembles@compuserve.com wrote: >Sparks >will verify that I'm a sucker for that ripple stuff. She calls the >Yough pure cathedral red ripple the "666" glass (as in >the mark of the beast from Revelations). But I like it. Guess >that makes me the glass cutter from h*ll. Hey, I love the way it looks! I'm also generous enough not to deny you the sheer pleasure of cutting it all yourself :-) Actually, the Yough pink ice was the "original 666 glass." I think we got hold of a particularly tough sheet of the stuff during the CHOP mosaic project. Wouldn't break straight to save its life. The red ripple cathedral is nasty in a different way - it's some of the *splinteriest* stuff.......... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 16:24:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 14:43:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.74347.0> References: <<1999Apr9.223731.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Steve Richard wrote: > > I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but... > I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this site justified. > To me it shows the use of the image of women as means to get attention. > > um, Steve, isnt the point that MOST works of art are designed to "get attention"...??? I mean if someone uses some bright colors in a way no one else has before or an unusual design or something isnt the whole point to get attention??? I see "getting attention" as something that can be good in this way or it can be bad in a sort of juvenile sense...is that what you mean, that this guy is just acting like a horny 13 year old who has just discovered girls???? Or that he just wants to shock and upset people??? It seems if someones goal is to shock and upset people they could go about it in a lot more blatant manner....dont get me wrong, I think there are "artists" out there who have a whole ax to grind with society and that rather than pumping out works that seem to just scream out "f...you" to the world they might spend their time more wisely getting to the bottom of their anger and their need to artisticly speaking flip the world the bird.....but I dont think thats what this guy is doing here...actually his works in glass reminded me of Nagel....dont remember his first name but I seem to have seen an awful lot of his paintings all over the place of beautiful women, admittedly clothed as opposed to unclothed, but this stuff seemed to be in about the same spirit..... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 16:44:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:44:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Mailing list Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:51:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.125154.0> Precedence: bulk >I can't deal with >this kind of traffic, no time. Thank you for putting me on, and Thank >you even more for taking me off. Barbara Larie columbine@net-port.com. Sounds like a personal problem to me. Being that this backhanded thank you is the only post I ever saw from the woman, I can confidently say *I'm* glad we won't be hearing more from her. Next time I post.. I'll be nicer. Promise!! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 17:04:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:54:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:52:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.145224.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BE82BA.1B5C14E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am really torn about responding to this....but since I originally = replied I guess I should..... >>I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but... Oh, I doubt brick bats.......(*S*) Maybe just a few foam rubber = opinions?!? >>I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this site = justified. While I personally like this style of work, I don't think stating my = personal opinion that I do, counts as 'gushing approval'. =20 >>To me it shows the use of the image of women as means to get = attention. This I do not understand. A "means to get attention"? Are you saying = that all artwork that uses the form of women (nude or not?) is just an = attention ploy by the artist? (That discounts at least 50% most museum = collections.) and many of pieces. While the popular media sometimes = inappropriately pushes 'sex' to sell what ever product they are hawking = this week....I do not think the use of sensuous themes is a 'ploy'...but = more an issue the artist is exploring for the piece of art work. To = me...there is a big difference. (This is a comment about art in = general...not only about this site.)=20 I thoroughly understand that this style may not be to your liking, and I = respect your choices in that regard. However I found it most refreshing = to see someone trying to capture other artistic styles in glass. Quite = frankly, I am sick of (though I do like many of them) all the flowers, = birds and landscapes you see in stained glass. Variety is the spice of = life!!=20 Take Care, Soraya PS: See! No brick bats! Is it my turn to start ducking? (LOL) ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BE82BA.1B5C14E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am really torn about responding to = this....but=20 since I originally replied I guess I should.....
 
>>I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but...
 
Oh, I doubt brick = bats.......(*S*)  =20 Maybe just a few foam rubber opinions?!?

>>I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this = site=20 justified.
While I personally like this style of work, I don't = think stating my=20 personal opinion that I do, counts as 'gushing approval'. 
 
>>To me it shows the use of the = image of=20 women as means to get attention.
 
This I do not understand. A "means to = get=20 attention"? Are you saying that all artwork that uses the form of women = (nude or=20 not?) is just an attention ploy by the artist? (That discounts at least = 50% most=20 museum collections.) and many of pieces. While the popular media = sometimes=20 inappropriately pushes 'sex' to sell what ever product they are hawking = this=20 week....I do not think the use of sensuous themes is a 'ploy'...but more = an=20 issue the artist is exploring for the piece of art work. To me...there = is a big=20 difference. (This is a comment about art in general...not only about = this site.)=20

I thoroughly understand that this style may not be to your liking, = and I=20 respect your choices in that regard. However I found it most refreshing = to see=20 someone trying to capture other artistic styles in glass. Quite frankly, = I am=20 sick of (though I do like many of them) all the flowers, birds and = landscapes=20 you see in stained glass. Variety is the spice of life!! =

Take Care,
Soraya
 
PS:  See! No brick bats!  Is = it my turn=20 to start ducking? (LOL)
------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BE82BA.1B5C14E0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 17:47:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:24:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Family Account Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Rapid Set Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:18:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.151851.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Family Account >But Rapid Set ain't Quickcrete! Dorothy < Okay, everybody, I know that Rapid Set is not Quickcrete! My point is...= From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 17:59:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:06:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:00:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.15039.0> Precedence: bulk Hartley wood laid off all its workers and closed the factory. There was such a clamor that people wanted the glass that they reopened the factory. The older workers who were the masters behind the glass decided that they rather liked retirement and when asked to come back declined. So its all new people doing the work. From what I heard....not anything near the old Hartley Wood. What a pity. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: studio@stainedglass.co.uk To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 6:56 PM Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines >At 14:36 09/04/99 -0400, Dani wrote: > I'd be interested in hearing more about >>that and also >>what the latest is with Hartley Wood in England..... > >Hartley Wood is dead but the new company being set up in its place (we >hope) is to be known as Sunderland Glass I hear. >Our supplier is expecting delivery of stocks of glass any day now and has >promised to let us know soonest just what has arrived and whether it is as >good as the old HW glass. >Fingers crossed! >EliZabeth >Bournemouth Stained Glass >http://www.stainedglass.co.uk >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 18:10:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberportal.net!dmj From: "Dean Johnson" To: "Bungi List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:58:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.155831.0> References: <<1999Apr9.151516.0>> Precedence: bulk > Wonder > if it isn't really wood. Could be. I bought a large round oak frame which came with a piece of wicker (like the stuff used to make furniture) to use as a stop to hold in the panel. It is about 1/4" in diameter and bends to a round shape readily, but since it would rather be straight it provides outward pressure against the sides of the frame. Perhaps you could pick some up where they sell supplies for caning chairs, or from someone who does chair caning. Just a thought. Elizabeth Johnson dmj@cyberportal.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 20:46:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:14:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Arnie Bazensky" , Subject: Desag Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:52:26 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.105226.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Everyone, I just looked up some literature that Mr. Arnie Bazensky (West Coast Manager of Schott Glass, Germany) gave me. On the back page, it reads DESAG with their logo, and below it, "A Schott Group Company" The contact info is: Deutsche Spezialglass AG P.O. Box 2032 W-3223 Grunenplan Germany Telephone (0 51 87) 7 71-530 Telefax (0 51 87) 771547 Telex 175187810 desag d Teletex 5187810=DESAG I do not know if the mouthblown glass is still being made, although I am sure that if you would like to contact Arnie directly, he would be able to find out, and perhaps get a lead on some for you. Arnie Bazensky E-mail Address(es): ajb.sgt-west@worldnet.att.net Arnie, folks from the Bungi Stained Glass mailing list, might be asking about the DESAG glass. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 21:06:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:15:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:01:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.11155.0> Precedence: bulk Not sure if anyone followed his favorite links,,, It would seem that his material comes from this subject area, EROTIC FANTASY Most of the stuff is airbrush work,,, Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 04:36 PM Subject: Re: Mermaid |Steve Richard wrote: |> |> I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but... |> I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this site justified. |> To me it shows the use of the image of women as means to get attention. |> |> |um, Steve, isnt the point that MOST works of art are designed to "get |attention"...??? I mean if someone uses some bright colors in a way no |one else has before or an unusual design or something isnt the whole |point to get attention??? I see "getting attention" as something that |can be good in this way or it can be bad in a sort of juvenile |sense...is that what you mean, that this guy is just acting like a horny |13 year old who has just discovered girls???? Or that he just wants to |shock and upset people??? It seems if someones goal is to shock and |upset people they could go about it in a lot more blatant manner....dont |get me wrong, I think there are "artists" out there who have a whole ax |to grind with society and that rather than pumping out works that seem |to just scream out "f...you" to the world they might spend their time |more wisely getting to the bottom of their anger and their need to |artisticly speaking flip the world the bird.....but I dont think thats |what this guy is doing here...actually his works in glass reminded me of |Nagel....dont remember his first name but I seem to have seen an awful |lot of his paintings all over the place of beautiful women, admittedly |clothed as opposed to unclothed, but this stuff seemed to be in about |the same spirit..... | |Liz |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 21:16:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:52:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Soraya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 20:58:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.155823.0> References: <<1999Apr9.145224.0>> Precedence: bulk I think it is clear that he likes the female form...and exploring ;o) it artistically. Seems like a pretty alright thing for a 24 yr old young man to be doing to me. I enjoyed the site. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 21:28:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:21:48 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr10.22148.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/9/99 4:45:04 PM, s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk wrote: >I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but... >I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this site justified. >To me it shows the use of the image of women as means to get attention. I'm not crazy about the "contemporary graphic art" style of the designs; that style in general is rather too hard-edged to qualify as really "sexy" in my POV. Aside from that, I think they're well done and *way* more tasteful than the hostile shock-em-if-you-can't-rock-em stuff you see coming from a lot of post-punk-grunge-and-anime influenced "younger" artists. Just my 2 brass farthings' worth.......... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 21:40:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:51:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Pa. glass... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:38:25 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr10.23825.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/9/99 5:33:44 PM, ABBIE23875@prodigy.net wrote: >I really want to go back.....maybe a side >trip from WC'S "Vissions" weekend????? Abbie in Va. It''d be quite a side trip....... Yough is south of Pittsburgh, WC is north of Philly. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 21:46:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:54:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: gecko@ipa.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mailing list Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:51:50 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr10.25150.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/9/99 7:44:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gecko@ipa.net writes: > I can't deal with > >this kind of traffic, no time. Thank you for putting me on, and Thank > >you even more for taking me off. Barbara Larie columbine@net-port.com. > > > Sounds like a personal problem to me. Being that this backhanded thank you > is the only post I ever saw from the woman, I can confidently say *I'm* glad > we won't be hearing more from her. > Hey Blake, "Thank you for putting me on, and Thank you even more for taking me off. That was my favorite part, it sounded as though she thought bungi reached out and grabbed her........there is quite a difference between being embraced and being grabbed isn't there? IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 21:51:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:00:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:59:09 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr10.2599.0> Precedence: bulk n a message dated 4/9/99 12:48:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Classydad@aol.com writes: > Would think that pine or other wood would break before it would bend to that > opening. Hey Keith, You can't bend pine unless you wanted to laminate very thin strips together, which imho really wouldn't be worth it for your project. I have a book on making oval and round picture frames and I assume the same technique would work for your project. The method they used is to miter short lengths of wood (you need to decide the cutting angle and number of pieces based on the size of the circle you are trying to achieve) and glue them together in a "circular" shape. You can use a saw to make a perfect circle both inside and out, then router the inside top edge to take the "sharp" edge off. If you want better directions, let me know, I'll dig out the book. IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 22:05:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:12:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!winstonga From: "Winston Winston" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Must Leave the State Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 20:11:02 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr10.3112.0> Precedence: bulk Thank you for the great response on my question about the quality of the various types of glass and the use of spectrum in tiffany lamps. Those sheets of glass that are compared to "erotic meltdown" probably cannot be legally purchased in the state of Utah. So I am wearing dark glasses, an overcoat, and heading out of state. ;-) I noticed an article in the new Glass Craftsman about Monona Rossol. Is this the same Monona who has contributed to this list on lead safety? It is a nice article, but was too short. Buck _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 23:04:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:00:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:00:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.2103.0> References: <<1999Apr9.11155.0>> Precedence: bulk This will be the last I say on the subject....as I guess my view points are not the main stream (well...I kinda knew that all ready! (*G*) )...but ..... I personally...for me and my family only.... do not, can not, find anything on this site offensive....erotica in art has a long, honest history (shall we talk about the Pompeian mosaics?)....but if it bothers anyone...all I can recommend is don't look....He states up frount and direct that this material is there....(the person who posted the link also mentioned this)...Sorry if that seems harsh and I guess I should apologize...but it is how I feel this late at night. If this was exploitive, hardcore pornography being directed at children...I would not be saying this.....but I make a distinction. His stained glass is unique in my opinion............I don't care what his favorite links are...I did not look at them all (surfed to a few) but did see "Mike's Stained Glass" ....we all need to watch out for that one!! lol) I am just glad that we all live in a world where we can safely have different opinions. Take Care, Soraya ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ The Witches' Thicket at http://www.cros.net/soraya ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Knock on the sky and listen to the sound! --Zen Saying ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 00:09:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:12:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:11:58 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk *Images* of nudity portraited artistically are within the realms of real life. (But much like pornagraphic books lying on shelfs everywhere)...if it offends you DON'T PICK IT UP/TURN A BLIND EYE. Artistically a woman decided to build a shadow box of her aboration(SP?) (somewhat) naturally of a child,... the last shadow box showed a used tampon!!! This piece of art had much disgust thru out BC, Canada...some parts would not regonially accept her acclaimed work thru the noted ARTISTS realm.... Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 01:09:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:16:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: , Subject: Re: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:20:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.15207.0> Precedence: bulk I just looked in the BELVELDINE CAME CRAFT INC. catalog (714) 894-8779, and they sell a frame stop. From catalog. Panel Retainer Cord A flexible easy to use cord that can be stapled or nailed in place to hold your glass panel securely in frame. Especially good for curved frames. Available in lengths of 50 FT ($18.00) and 100 Ft. ($32.00) dimensions 1/4" by 1/4" It looks like quarter round in side view. I buy most of my glass from them, they got the best selection that I have found, and they work with me on cost, since I can't afford a lot at a time, since I am on disability. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 10:03 PM Subject: Re: Suggestions for a stop |n a message dated 4/9/99 12:48:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Classydad@aol.com |writes: | |> Would think that pine or other wood would break before it would bend to |that |> opening. | |Hey Keith, | |You can't bend pine unless you wanted to laminate very thin strips together, |which imho really wouldn't be worth it for your project. I have a book on |making oval and round picture frames and I assume the same technique would |work for your project. The method they used is to miter short lengths of |wood (you need to decide the cutting angle and number of pieces based on the |size of the circle you are trying to achieve) and glue them together in a |"circular" shape. You can use a saw to make a perfect circle both inside and |out, then router the inside top edge to take the "sharp" edge off. If you |want better directions, let me know, I'll dig out the book. | |IA | | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 03:40:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:47:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Monona Rossol Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:53:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199904100945.FAA22775@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I noticed an article in the new Glass Craftsman about Monona Rossol. > Is this the same Monona who has contributed to this list on lead > safety? Yep. There's only *one Monona. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 04:11:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:48:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Desag Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:53:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199904100945.FAA22848@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Deutsche Spezialglass AG That's where the name of the glass comes from: DE (is the contraction for Germany in German) S (for special glass) and AG for (Aktiengesellschaft ... "incorporated" in other words) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 05:11:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:07:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: computerministry@unitytustin.org, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Neat site if you got the time ;-) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:05:27 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr10.11527.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/7/99 10:47:35 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Bud Britt writes: << Subj: Neat site if you got the time ;-) > What a SITE to send fellow bungians!!! Trying to really SHAKE US UP, Bud?! Woah! IRS! Don't want to go there, no way, no how!! Thanks for the belated April Fool's joke! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 05:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:12:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:07:57 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990410070757.006a0364@scci.net> References: <<1999Apr9.11155.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi all, This guy really needs to join the list! I know if a site of mine was generating this long of a thread I'd want to be here enjoying it! Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 06:14:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:02:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!mschut From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: help with soldering Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:09:28 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990410080928.2d3fc8be@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca> Precedence: bulk i have been doing stained glass for a while using the copper foil technique, but I can't seem to get my solder joints very smooth. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Am I using too much flux or is the 7/32" foil too thick for glass? This has really been bugging me for a while. I mostly do suncatchers and larger (18 x 24) window units. I have done some windows, serving trays and fan lamps also, but run into the same problem with every one. I use the weller 100 watt temp controlled iron with a #7, 1/4" tip. Any insight on this from anyone? Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut Moncton, New Brunswick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 07:16:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:05:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: The E-tour Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:03:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199904101304.NAA25081@saturn> Precedence: bulk Hi all, Getting quite a number of messages like this one from "Blake" and am very much looking forward to meeting up with you. Pamela Burns-Tappan is working hard on updating the E-Tour web site as things are happening. So do keep visiting it..... (Pam.....by the way.... can you help me with turning the "up-dates" into black on white for me, as you did the first few pages for print-outs....). May I also draw your attention to the fact that the list of studios sponsoring me (and The E-Tour) has now been added to by our very own Dani and Michael Greer and that I am very excited about meeting up with them as well. (Though she turned down my job application, sniffed at my broom, made some strange comments about something called a "chuck-wagon" and then reined in my services to a local touring theatre company..... or was it a circus?? Ah well..., I will have a lot to look forward to!) Please All, keep on posting who will be attending where, as it will also help me to know where I will be likely to meet up with whom. I have been a proud "Bunginian" for 3.5 years now and this will also be MY chance of meeting so many of you - face to face- that I have got to know so well during these years. Excited?? ME??? NAHHH!! 'Course not!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK In response to: > From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" > To: "Bungi" > Subject: The E-tour > Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:34:44 -0600 > Wouldn't ya know it.... the DAY AFTER, I spent all my money upgradgin my > computer, the e-tour is finished and ready to accept reservations!! Aaghhh! > > So... providing there are still reservations available for Kansas City, MO, > by my next paycheck... (living hand to mouth is hell, aint it?)... that is > where I plan to attend the E-tour workshop. > > I haven't seen any others of you out there mentioning the Kansas City > workshop. Any of you planning on going to that one? > > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 07:28:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:05:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: tv tutu sighting! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:03:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199904101304.NAA25088@saturn> Precedence: bulk Hi All, I am delighted to hear that Patrick is seriously considering the dress-rehearsal (pun intended!) for the E-Tour. However, I am just a little concerned......; DO I pack a white coat with fetching leather straps in my luggage?? Will my budget stretch to cover the cost of a personal body-guard?? Has Patrick had his anti-rabies vaccination this year?? jus' wondering.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (The former = The "E-Tour"!) judy novak wrote: > Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public > television! He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our > local area. > I personally want to thank you Patrick for your involvement in our > community and your hours of dedication. You are the kind of people that > make our community and hence our country so great! Thanks so much! > The jewels on the fringed edges of the cobalt blue tutu added such a > sparkle. I was in total awe of your gracefulness, your poise......... > until the very end when you threw that old lady to the floor and > wrestled the mike from her screaming "I want to tell them, I want to > tell them!!!!!!!!" and they cut to commercial. > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 07:42:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:12:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Pa. glass... Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:12:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.51217.0> References: <<1999Apr10.23825.0>> Precedence: bulk But it's all highway, I believe, including a tunnel under the mountains (went through it once with a semi on my tail...fun?). I am thinking about going to Connelsville (or the area) in the week before Glass Visions, as a vacation. Dorothy Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/9/99 5:33:44 PM, ABBIE23875@prodigy.net wrote: > > >I really want to go back.....maybe a side > >trip from WC'S "Vissions" weekend????? Abbie in Va. > > It''d be quite a side trip....... Yough is south of Pittsburgh, WC is north > of Philly. > > Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 08:27:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:06:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: RE: Mermaid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:57:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.55738.0> Precedence: bulk I am impressed and Paul says those are the things he has wanted to do for years. For a guy of such a young age he is quite talented. And after I rethink that sentence .......skip the age....for someone working in glass this guy is really talented. I don't know how this work could offend anyone. Loved the guys Halloween outfits!!! pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. PJ and Paul Friend www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 6:03 PM Subject: RE: RE: Mermaid >His links page lists a spinal cord injury site and the description of >the site mentions that he is paralyzed and been in a wheelchair for 7 >years. His picture page shows him sitting in a wheelchair. > >Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nadine Beth Schneider >[mailto:nadinesfolly@erols.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 2:48 PM > To: Steve Fairbairn > Subject: re: RE: Mermaid > > I just went to his bio and it says he just graduated >from UT. > Did I miss something? > > Nadine > > > > ** Original Subject: RE: Mermaid > > ** Original Sender: Steve Fairbairn > > > ** Original Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:32:55 -0700 > > > ** Original Message follows... > > > > > I found nothing offensive or even slightly >pornographic about his work. > > In fact, I was very impressed by his designs. Did >anyone checking out > > his site notice that he is paralyzed and has been >living in a wheelchair > > for the past 7 years? > > > > Steve > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ktsplash >[mailto:ktsplash@mpx.com.au] > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:48 AM > > To: Bungi List > > Subject: Mermaid > > > > seen this page of women portrayed in >glass? if not, > > check it out > > beautiful designs and future designs > > http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ > > be warned - husbands will be more >appreciative of some > > of these designs than > > your garden variety federation style! > > and don't take your kids to this site! >tut tut, that > > owner looks too young > > to be creating this sort of thing! > > on second thought... maybe age has >something to do with > > it! ;-) > > > > Katie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail >to: > > glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail >to: > > glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at >http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: >glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: >glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > > > > > www.nadinesfolly.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 09:44:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG: TuTu Sighting Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:20:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.5208.0> Precedence: bulk <> Well she wouldn't let go of the mike. I was holding my own until she (unfairly) picked up her walker and hit me with it, then the fight was on. Earlier she made a rude comment about my attire, something about how unbecoming it was for a man to wear fringe. Don't let that blue hair fool you ... she was wiry. I still have the marks on my neck from her trying to strangle me with those support hose. She tried to pull my hair but all she got was a hand full of scalp. Her twin sister joined the fray and it was inhumane what they did to me. Blue hair, walkers, print dresses, crocheted collars, fringe, glass, mike cords, etc. The TV crew finally had to break us up.... just when I was getting the upper hand..... . Oh well, as the Terminator says, "Next time baby". Beware this was a warm-up for when that "Brit Chick" visits. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 09:47:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:35:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Same Monona? Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:33:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.7330.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Winston Winston" >I noticed an article in the new Glass Craftsman about Monona Rossol. = Is this the same Monona who has contributed to this list on lead = safety? It is a nice article, but was too short.< Yes, indeed, 'tis she. She's also on the Board of Advisors of IGGA (International Guild of Glass Artists). Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 10:02:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:48:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: mschut Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: help with soldering Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:47:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.74728.0> References: <<3.0.1.16.19990410080928.2d3fc8be@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>> Precedence: bulk mschut wrote: > > i have been doing stained glass for a while using the copper foil > technique, but I can't seem to get my solder joints very smooth. Can > anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Am I using too much flux or is the > 7/32" foil too thick for glass? This has really been bugging me for a while. > > I mostly do suncatchers and larger (18 x 24) window units. I have done > some windows, serving trays and fan lamps also, but run into the same > problem with every one. I use the weller 100 watt temp controlled iron > with a #7, 1/4" tip. Any insight on this from anyone? > Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut > Moncton, New Brunswick > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it could be a bunch of things: - too much flu - too little flux - not enough heat - the foil may be old and it's not letting the flux work - the flux may be too old - the flux may be contaminated (using a new bottle pour it in to a smaller one and use it from that. - the solder may not be pure (don't use plumber's grade) - you may be pulling it too fast and not letting the heat build up could you explain what the solder looks like after it's done? this will help with the diagnoses. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 10:20:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:01:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Update on PBS Auction Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:03:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.6312.0> Precedence: bulk The Auction went well. I'll post more when I know more. Words, of course, cannot describe the beauty of these pieces. I was mesmerized by each one. But I thought I would tell everyone what wonderful people and great artist helped: Glass and Goodies (Judy Novak, Trish Baker, Linda Goodenough), Temple, TX Large framed CKE pattern of the Teddy Bears cuddling I think its called Cuddle Time. Job glass for the couch, different browns for each bear, the paws had black pads glue to the bottoms. Just....WOW! Molly Keys, Copperas Cove, TX A 3D floral arrangement with Irises, a Bluebonnet (state flower of Texas), a bird, and a rose, all set in a beveled glass frame. It was just gorgeous. Marti Woodard, Harker Heights, TX Cobalt blue star design with an oval bevel in the middle, a fused and painted bluebonnet on the oval, decorative soldered seams.....exciting to the eyes. Patrick(me) of course A brown cowboy boot, with a white diamond design, set alongside a flowering cactus. The brown boot was textured glass, the green cactus was Wissmach (textured), red flowers at the top, all surrounded by jade baroque, and framed in solid oak. My thanks to all my friends and fellow artist who helped. The hours and hours of work and expense is truly appreciated by myself and the local community. You really made it a success. Even the people answering the telephones were bidding on the glass. Again ..... Thanks for all the help and the exquisite masterpieces you donated. Now back to my cantankerous old self. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 11:22:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:05:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Erotic Meltdown and preg Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:09:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.7947.0> References: <<1999Apr10.53857.0>> Precedence: bulk > Fair warning Sparks, > > If my wife ends up pregnant because of this thread you'll hear from my > liar... er lawyer. > Could this be the first maternity suit? > > Vic M. > vmodiano@ctronsoft.com > > PS Don't worry I'll settle for a new soldering iron and some glass. > Lol..Vic, if it takes Bungi to create that risk, your wife might just want to send us a thank you note! ;o) Not to mention a plea for us to email you more often! T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 13:52:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:56:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: High art/Low art Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:54:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.115441.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@localhost > High art is what brings you pleasure (erotic meltdowns and lesser feeling= s) just looking at it or knowing it is there. Low art is the stuff that matches the couch. < Mmmmm, I might argue with you on that one since I've made my reputation o= n sofa paintings.... deliberately and somewhat irreverantly I'll admit. About half my work is owned by other artists, a good number of them so-called "cutting edge". = I think the difference between high art and low art deals in large part with several factors: 1. Is it original 2. Is it well-rendered (does it show some skill) 3. How wou= ld it stack up = hanging in a museum next to some masterpieces? There are more, but that'= s a start. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios "Craft is art that has to work for a living..." ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 14:23:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:57:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: High art/Low art Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:54:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.115446.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@localhost >if you don't understand it, it is not real. = < I have a lot of art history under my belt from college, and I'll be the first to admit I don't understand much of it... but, I would be very hesitant to say it is not real! History will make that determination. Frank Lloyd Wright's visionary homes left entir= e neighborhoods aghast... and times haven't changed that much. Wright's granddaughter, L= iz Ingraham, is a practicing architect in my town and continues the family pattern of breaking tradition. A few years ago, we donated a jacuzzi window to the Holiday House fundraiser and the folks who bought the house were up-in-arms because Liz was designing the home on a nearby property - and it was going to include in it's design several out-buildings! Broke the neighborhood pattern of honker-house-with-four-car-attached-garage. My, my.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 14:40:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:59:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: tv tutu sighting! NG Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:54:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.115451.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@localhost >May be Toby will accept it in place of a Bio this weekend? < Hey, did we ever get a bio from Patrick? Maybe we should all start hounding HIM! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 14:53:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:00:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: High art/low art Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:54:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.115448.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@localhost >You like it, you hate it, it makes you laugh, cry, want to hug someone.< How about if it makes you throw up? Is it still art? Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 14:58:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio # 98 Shiela H. Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:04:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.10433.0> Precedence: bulk Well Mr. Kelly I figured I had better get this bio to you before you bust that tutu you have been wearing. Hello to everyone! I have been a major lurker on bungi for about 9 months now. My name is Sheila H. and I now reside in the state of Ohio. Southeastern Ohio to be exact. I have been and still am happily married for 14 yrs. to a wonderful man...have to stroke the male egos here....and have three children...rugrats...pain in the butts...oh excuse me that is on bad days only...two boys and one girl whom I might add is very spoiled by her daddy of course. I got into doing stain glass about 4 years ago when we were living in Texas. Hubby was a military man for 25 yrs. before we...noticed I said we....retired two yrs. ago and came home to raise the kids. Anyways...while in Texas my hubby took a stain glass class and I became hooked! Had him take the classes and then he came home and retaught me everything he had learned. I still consider myself a hobbyist. I do sell some of my work but mostly just do glass for personal relaxation and gifts. While in Texas I did a few commissions but since returning to Ohio I have been a little lax in doing glass as I took a job this yr. at my daughters school and glass has been put on the back burner so to speak. I have self taught myself how to do mosaics and love doing them. Hey it uses up alot of my scrap glass what can I say. At the present time I am working on my first lamp....yes I said first one! It is a prairie lamp that is really coming along nicely if I do say so myself. I also have done several 3d birdhouses and hummingbirds that I sell. These items keep me supplied with glass. I want all the bungians to know how much I enjoy this forum. I truely have learned and laughed alot from this group. Please keep up the good work. Still lurking in Ohio Sheila Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 15:06:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:07:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio # 99 Mary Austin Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:09:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.10924.0> Precedence: bulk I think you have mine but here goes. I live in Greenwood Indiana and have been doing stained glass now for about 5 years. I'm disabled and this was my saving grace after a surgery losing my large. intestine and colon. I died on the table on them. I have several serious illness in which I can not work out side the home.I'm also legally blind, but thankfully the company my husband works for donated a large. magnifying light for me to see by and that helps alot. We have one daughter stationed in England in the air force. She's been overseas for the last 6 years. She will be coming state side this June and I'll be grateful for that. My husband is a machinist and a good one. He does woodworking on the side. WE sell very little and most end up as gifts. But that's OK too. One day I hope to be able to sell to the public more than what I do now. I just need the self confidence that I do it good enough. But I have taken 1st in the fairs I've entered here so that's a good start. We have one adopted son who also works with my husband. I'm blessed by the Good Lord in that he is allowing me to pursue the art that I majored in in high school. What a chance given to me. Now to get off my butt and use it. I truly enjoy reading and learning from each and every one in this group. Mary Austin Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 15:31:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:20:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Pkelly" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: NG: TuTu Sighting Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:17:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.131742.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Pkelly" >Blue hair, walkers, print dresses, crocheted collars, fringe, glass, mike cords, etc.< Don't forget the chuck wagons... E. is quaking in her shoes! Patrick, we really should have you out to visit us in Colorado while Elisabeth is here.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 15:43:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:23:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: mschut Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: help with soldering Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:17:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.131729.0> Precedence: bulk The Weller 100 doesn't retain heat long enough to do any kind of long solder runs.... it's great for lead joints and small foil jobs. But, for= larger panels we use the Weller SP-175, a much beefier iron.... for really big panels you can't beat the Hexacon irons. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 16:27:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:15:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: High art/low art Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:13:55 +0000 Message-ID: <199904102206.SAA01429@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > How about if it makes you throw up? Is it still art? Especially then, particularly if it's priced over $50,000. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 16:40:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:16:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: discover.earthlink.net!leslye2 From: Leslye Nelson To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: anyone take credit cards? Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:15:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.141556.0> Precedence: bulk Do any of you that do art shows take credit cards? If so, who is your bankcard service provider? I looked on the net and have no idea who is good (& to trust) and who is not. Thanks, Leslye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 16:50:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "Pkelly" , Subject: Re: Bio # 98 Shiela H. Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:08:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.1482.0> Precedence: bulk Shiela, Welcome, this is a great group of very talented people. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Pkelly To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 5:58 PM Subject: Bio # 98 Shiela H. >Well Mr. Kelly I figured I had better get this bio to you before you >bust that tutu you have been wearing. > >Hello to everyone! I have been a major lurker on bungi for about 9 >months now. My name is Sheila H. and I now reside in the state of >Ohio. Southeastern Ohio to be exact. I have been and still am happily >married for 14 yrs. to a wonderful man...have to stroke the male egos >here....and have three children...rugrats...pain in the butts...oh >excuse me that is on bad days only...two boys and one girl whom I might >add is very spoiled by her daddy of course. I got into doing stain >glass about 4 years ago when we were living in Texas. Hubby was a >military man for 25 yrs. before we...noticed I said we....retired two >yrs. ago and came home to raise the kids. Anyways...while in Texas my >hubby took a stain glass class and I became hooked! Had him take the >classes and then he came home and retaught me everything he had >learned. I still consider myself a hobbyist. I do sell some of my >work but mostly just do glass for personal relaxation and gifts. While >in Texas I did a few commissions but since returning to Ohio I have been >a little lax in doing glass as I took a job this yr. at my daughters >school and glass has been put on the back burner so to speak. I have >self taught myself how to do mosaics and love doing them. Hey it uses >up alot of my scrap glass what can I say. At the present time I am >working on my first lamp....yes I said first one! It is a prairie lamp >that is really coming along nicely if I do say so myself. I also have >done several 3d birdhouses and hummingbirds that I sell. These items >keep me supplied with glass. I want all the bungians to know how much >I enjoy this forum. I truely have learned and laughed alot from this >group. Please keep up the good work. > >Still lurking in Ohio >Sheila > >Patrick >Roses and Rainbows > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 16:58:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:29:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: Subject: Re: Bio # 99 Mary Austin Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:29:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.14294.0> Precedence: bulk Mary, I admire your strength to continue to do what you love to do. You are an inspiration. Glass is my escape too. I love reading what the diverse folks in this group have to say and share. I have learned a lot from folks so willing to share their expertise. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Pkelly To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 6:08 PM Subject: Bio # 99 Mary Austin >I think you have mine but here goes. I live in Greenwood Indiana and >have been doing stained glass now for about 5 years. I'm disabled and >this was my saving grace after a surgery losing my large. intestine and >colon. I died on the table on them. I have several serious illness in >which I can not work out side the home.I'm also legally blind, but >thankfully the company my husband works for donated a large. magnifying >light for me to see by and that helps alot. We have one daughter >stationed in England in the air force. She's been overseas for the last >6 years. She will be coming state side this June and I'll be grateful >for that. My husband is a machinist and a good one. He does >woodworking on the side. WE sell very little and most end up as gifts. >But that's OK too. One day I hope to be able to sell to the public more >than what I do now. I just need the self confidence that I do it good >enough. But I have taken 1st in the fairs I've entered here so that's a >good start. We have one adopted son who also works with my husband. I'm >blessed by the Good Lord in that he is allowing me to pursue the art >that I majored in in high school. What a chance given to me. Now to get >off my butt and use it. I truly enjoy reading and learning from each >and every one in this group. > >Mary Austin > >Patrick >Roses and Rainbows > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 17:30:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:16:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Pkelly" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Bio # 99 Mary Austin Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:10:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.151059.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Pkelly" >What a chance given to me. Now to get off my butt and use it.< Don't feel alone, Mary. I feel this way more times than I care to count!= = Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 17:59:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:43:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:49:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.13491.0> References: <<199904102206.SAA01429@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte Albert Lewis wrote: > > > How about if it makes you throw up? Is it still art? > > Especially then, particularly if it's priced over $50,000. > > Albert I'm gonna have to raise my prices! You are the second person today to tell me that the higher the price the more it is valued. I guess I truly am an odd character...as if something touches me it has value regardless of the price. My question to you then Albert, if the same peice were $20, $50, $100 would it then be trash? Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 18:27:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: High art/low art Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:08:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199904110001.UAA02933@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > My question to you then Albert, if the same peice were $20, $50, > $100 would it then be trash? That's certainly how some folks would determine "art" vs. "non-art." You've heard my story about the mugs I used to make and the reaction to $5 per and $25 per? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 18:40:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:50:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: help with soldering Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:22:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.92250.0> Precedence: bulk I would say your iron is too cold. I stopped using the Weller 100 with those weird temperature control tips because I just could not get the heat right. If I remember the tip numbers, a number 7 is just too cold (and most glass suppliers don't seem to carry the number 8). Those temperature control tips just take the control out of your hands and put it into the hands of some guy in a lab hundreds of miles away who thinks he knows what is best for you. Bull crap! You need to control the temperature yourself to match the solder and foil or came thickness. How does some engineer know what temperature is best for the work your doing? Personally I prefer a simple powerful 150 to 175 watt iron with a rheostat control. Run it hot and move fast. For delicate work, just turn down the rheostat. Simple, dependable, infinitely controllable. -----Original Message----- From: mschut To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 7:21 AM Subject: help with soldering >i have been doing stained glass for a while using the copper foil >technique, but I can't seem to get my solder joints very smooth. Can >anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Am I using too much flux or is the >7/32" foil too thick for glass? This has really been bugging me for a while. > >I mostly do suncatchers and larger (18 x 24) window units. I have done >some windows, serving trays and fan lamps also, but run into the same >problem with every one. I use the weller 100 watt temp controlled iron >with a #7, 1/4" tip. Any insight on this from anyone? >Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut >Moncton, New Brunswick >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 18:53:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:13:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bio # 98 Shiela H. Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:17:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.141744.0> References: <<1999Apr10.10433.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Shiela... Thanks for coming out of lurkerdom..so we can meet you. I love prairie style lamps. ;o) Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 18:54:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:50:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Suggestions for a stop Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:48:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.94836.0> Precedence: bulk As a wood worker, I can tell you oval or circular stops (or for that matter the entire oval frame) are a real pain to make in wood. It is the sort of thing a big shop can set up with repeating jigs and such. But if you are just doing one, it is rarely worth it in wood. If you are going to paint over it, I would go with the flexible plastic stops. This is what most of the production doors you see use because of the difficulty doing it in wood. Some other suggestions for curved stops I have used in the past to avoid the time and problems of curving real wood: Flexible copper tubing (like they sell for propane gas tubing and also some plumbing applications). Zinc or Brass "U" came. Face the channel opening against the inside of oval frame and it will look like it's solid. Lead "H" came edging right on the panel. Be as accurate as possible in assembly (slightly oversized is better than undersized). Then trim the outside walls of the H slightly for a perfect fit. The outer wall of the H came can be bent backwards, screws set through the inner wall into the wood frame, then the lead can be bent back to cover the screw heads. If you insist on real wood, the three possibilities are as follows. Describing any of them in detail would require pages. If you really want to do this I would suggest reading back issues of wood working magazines (such as Fine Woodworking) or books. 1. Build up an oval out of short sections of straight wood (build a polygon). Then round off the corners, usually on the router or shaper table. You will need special jigs both to glue the polygon and do the final shaping accurately. 2. Bent laminate thin strips of wood. You will need special clamping forms. You will also be working with large amounts of glue. Usually fairly hazardous epoxy resins. 3. Steam bend wood. Many woods do not steam bend well - you definitely do NOT want to use pine for steam bending - I would suggest reading up on what woods are best. You will need a steamer - a section of plastic sewer pipe with caps on each end then attached to a kettle can be made to work. There are also chemicals (mainly ammonia) which improve the bending characteristics of wood. You will need to use full safety precautions (concentrated ammonia steam can really do a number on your eyes and skin). ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 19:01:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:34:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:13:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.101319.0> References: <<1999Apr10.22148.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/9/99 4:45:04 PM, s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk > wrote: > > >I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but... > >I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this site justified. > >To me it shows the use of the image of women as means to get attention. > > I'm not crazy about the "contemporary graphic art" style of the designs; that > style in general is rather too hard-edged to qualify as really "sexy" in my > POV. Aside from that, I think they're well done and *way* more tasteful than > the hostile shock-em-if-you-can't-rock-em stuff you see coming from a lot of > post-punk-grunge-and-anime influenced "younger" artists. > > Just my 2 brass farthings' worth.......... > > Sparks > > ---- >yeah, I guess its the sort of stuff you either like or you dont...I noticed he had some links to some Japanese animation stuff...which you either like or you dont, I happen to like it, so that may very well be why I liked this guys stuff too....I just find it interesting to see someone doing something "different" with glass than the usual stuff.... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 19:13:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:20:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.102037.0> References: <> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Cindy Pesonen wrote: > > *Images* of nudity portraited artistically are within the realms of real > life. (But much like pornagraphic books lying on shelfs everywhere)...if it > offends you DON'T PICK IT UP/TURN A BLIND EYE. > Artistically a woman decided to build a shadow box of her aboration(SP?) > (somewhat) naturally of a child,... the last shadow box showed a used > tampon!!! This piece of art had much disgust thru out BC, Canada...some > parts would not regonially accept her acclaimed work thru the noted ARTISTS > realm.... > Cindy > > call me judgemental but I am not sure that I classify a shadow box with a used tampon in it "artistic". There seems to be a school of thought out there that if you can come up with something that is going to "shock" people then you are a true cutting edge artist...there is no technical talent involved, no real effort other than staying up late at night to try and think of something "more" shocking than anyone else has ever come up with before....yes, I suppose this woman "is" telling us what is going on in her inner psyche and I "suppose" that is some of what art is supposed to do, and no, art does not always have to be "pretty" but I just get a sense about people who do things like this that there is something going on there that rubs me the wrong way...... not to open up a can of worms here but somehow I thought of this whole discussion I had years back with a fellow waitron where I used to work, a woman who fancied herself a writer and she was going on and on and ON about Sylvia Plath and how wonderful she was..I just found her life so very sad,what a waste, to die like that...and she shoots back...well....would you rather have a HAPPY Danielle Steele or a MISERABLE Sylvia Plath, I was like, well, I'll take the happy Danielle Steele thank you...the idea of artist/writer/whatever as someone who has to have this miserable tragic life to have something of any importance to say just did not seem quite right to me....anyway...this really digresses from glass here...but I guess since we ARE talking about art or whatever.... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 19:29:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:42:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Melissa Hall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:21:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.102119.0> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990410070757.006a0364@scci.net>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Melissa Hall wrote: > > Hi all, > This guy really needs to join the list! I know if a site of mine was > generating this long of a thread I'd want to be here enjoying it! > > Melissa > >has anyone emailed him an invite? Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 19:32:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:11:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: Pkelly , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bio # 99 Mary Austin Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:09:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr10.11930.0> Precedence: bulk "I just need the self-confidence".....Mary, what a wonderful story of self-determination. One thing I learned a long time ago, and what I passed on to my son who now pitches on a college baseball team, is that the only person you have to impress is yourself. If you feel good about your work, that is all that matters. I am my own worst critic, but I won't let that stop me from doing the work I enjoy, with the patterns and glass colors I enjoy. I think my work is better than some here, and can't hold a candle to others in my opinion, but that really doesn't matter in the big scheme of things. You keep on keepin' on!!!! Rick === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 20:33:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:26:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: TEST Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:25:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.182515.0> Precedence: bulk it seems that I posted earlier but never saw my post so I thought I would test from this end. LJ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 21:04:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:55:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:00:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.1701.0> References: <<199904110001.UAA02933@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > My question to you then Albert, if the same peice were $20, $50, > > $100 would it then be trash? > > That's certainly how some folks would determine "art" vs. "non-art." > You've heard my story about the mugs I used to make and the reaction > to $5 per and $25 per? > > Albert Im sorry, I must have missed it. If it was recent, I have really been behind on email. Let me guess, they wouldnt sell at $5 but at $25 you ran out fast? If that's the case, I'm raising my prices... Only thing is, remember I live in Oklahoma now, home of the 10% tipper! ;o) No offense to *real Okies. My mother gets so mad at me for saying things like that, she was born and raised in Ok. (it *is true though) T Suz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 21:36:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:05:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:53:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.125339.0> Precedence: bulk For the small pieces in the Angel design, No, not really, the small pieces are part of the robe, and they alternate in color. Just got done making a box. It is a triangle with a cut off point facing you. Stands about 4 inches high. The top is done with iridescent marbles, with a black glass with iridescent finish as the sides of the top. The bottom is the same black glass iridescent, with iridescent marbles as feet. Took me about 7 hours, I do not know how you can make a living doing glass. Using a formula that I found on one of the members pages, I would guess that it would work out to about 30.00 to 40.00, and that does not even come close to the amount that I think I got in it. Well lets see,,, Sheet of black iridescent glass 8.00 Foil 1.00 Solder 3.00 Iridescent Marbles 2.00 Hinge 1.50 Equipment wear/Electricity 1.00 Total 16.50 So if I charge 40.00 for the box, then my hourly wage would be,,, 23.50 / 7 = 3.36 per hour That's way below the minimum wage, how do you all make a living at doing stained glass? I made a angel the other day, took about 8 hours, it's 6"x8" in size, bunch of small pieces, can not even imagine someone paying for the time and materials that I figure is in the angel. It would be around 70.00 to 90.00 And Mom thinks that I ought to put some stuff for sale in the church bookstore, says that there is a lot of money in Orange County, and some people spend it like others drink water. I wish I could figure out how to price my projects, that would pay for my time and materials, and still be in a sellable range. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 23:33:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:11:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.19115.0> Precedence: bulk >> You've heard my story about the mugs I used to make and the reaction >> to $5 per and $25 per? >> Albert -------------------------- >Im sorry, I must have missed it. If it was recent, I have really been >behind on email. >Let me guess, they wouldnt sell at $5 but at $25 you ran out fast? >If that's the case, I'm raising my prices... >Only thing is, remember I live in Oklahoma > now, home of the 10% tipper! ;o) No offense to *real Okies. >My mother gets so mad at me for saying things like that, she was born >and raised in Ok. (it *is true though) >T Suz ------------------------ Hhahhahahah! I know exactly how you feel! I'm just 2 hours from you, here in Arkansas. You can swing a cat and hit Oklahoma from here. We frequently do... great sport, that! Nothing personal to Ok's or Arks... but people here just don't spend money on nice things. And local waitstaff seems shocked at the 20 odd % tip! Most of my roots are from Oklahoma... but I'll still back you up on that one 100 percent, Suzanne! I'm curious to know the answer too... they wouldn't sell at 5.00 but you couldn't keep 'em in stock at 25.00?!?! Where is this? Obviously closer to civilization than small town Fort Smith, Arkansas! My local Scottish Festival is coming up on May 8th. I *think* I've built a decent stockpile of inventory. I'm still vascillation on my pricing, but trying to stick with $2.00 per piece of glass, unless I just don't think I can get that for it. But I keep going back to the fact that people here just seem a bit chinzier than, say, Houston Tx, or larger cities. I built my booth today!!! I'm very excited about that. It's 8'x8', with lots of room for sun to shine in, and a means of putting a tarp on top just in case of rain. (it *wont* rain... it *wont* rain....!!!) It breaks down into 8' boards, and can be assembled with carriage bolts in about 20 minutes. I'll post a pic of myself, in my glass booth, in my great-kilt.... (hopefully making money hand over fist), after the festival. G'nite all! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 02:09:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:38:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 02:41:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.214155.0> References: <<1999Apr11.19115.0>> Precedence: bulk lol...what've you been drinkin' Blake? ;oP You got me grinnin...you sound like a happy camper! So, you decided to wear the kilt for sure? I cant wait to see a pic! The booth sounds great. ;o) T Suz > I'll post a pic of myself, in my glass booth, in my great-kilt.... > (hopefully making money hand over fist), after the festival. > > G'nite all! > Blake > :-) > -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 04:39:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 03:25:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: High art/low art Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:32:36 +0000 Message-ID: <199904111025.GAA09275@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Let me guess, they wouldnt sell at $5 but at $25 you ran out fast? > If that's the case, I'm raising my prices... Yup. When I ran a hot glass studio (those who've heard this story can drop off to sleep now), my overhead and cost of materials was so low that I was able to make a very good profit selling lug-handled, winged, iridescent blown glass mugs at $5 each retail. But the customers wouldn't buy them, because they immediately began to compare in their minds what $5 would buy at the local dimestore. When I marked the mugs at $25 each, they flew off the shelves of the museum stores where they were on offer. At $25, each mug became something special, something extraordinary in the true meaning of that word: out of the ordinary. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 06:08:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:41:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!mschut From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:46:25 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990411074625.21f75a2e@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca> Precedence: bulk Thank you for the responses so far, a couple of you needed a little more information in order to possibly assist me. here it is: I use Clasic 60 solder from Fry Metals 60/40 and Classique 2050 Soldering Liquid Flux. Both items purchased recently from my local supplier. The solder joints turn out bulging and almost all of the joints have ripples. Also, when I finish the project, I clean off the flux with Classique 5000 Flux remover and clean the solder with 000 steel wool, but the solder still shows quite a dull finish. Hope this is the additional information you needed from me. Thanks for your help. Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut Moncton, New Brunswick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 07:39:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:06:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:00:18 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990411090018.006a26c0@scci.net> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990410070757.006a0364@scci.net>> Precedence: bulk At 05:21 PM 4/10/99 -0700, Elizabeth Arakelian wrote: >Melissa Hall wrote: >> Hi all, I'll send him an invite right now. Melissa >> Hi all, >> This guy really needs to join the list! I know if a site of mine was >> generating this long of a thread I'd want to be here enjoying it! >> >> Melissa >> >>has anyone emailed him an invite? > > >Liz >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 07:58:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:13:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: kaneida@texas.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Mermaid Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:10:10 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990411091010.006a26c0@scci.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Steven, You don't know me but I am in a glass news group called bungi. We've been looking at and discussing your site, so I though I'd extend an invitation for you to join the news group if you would like. No pressure! It's a bunch of stained glass people of all different talents who talk back and forth about a entire host of topics and your work has generated quite a lot of talk. One small warning though - you will get quite a bit of email. Some people seem to like that and some don't. I've snipped some text on the bottom telling you how to join: Join Bungi.com It's an E-mail based chat group just about stained glass. Great for beginners and advanced crafter's. Highly recommended, we discuss tips, and many other types of questions. You can either go directly to their page or e-mail it from here glass-request@bungi.com. There's also an archive of all the messages that were discussed from day one. Melissa Hall >X-Delivered: at request of mail on gdi4 >X-Path: ior.com!glshorse >From: Elizabeth Arakelian >To: Melissa Hall >Subject: Re: Mermaid >Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:21:19 -0700 >Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian > >Melissa Hall wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> This guy really needs to join the list! I know if a site of mine was >> generating this long of a thread I'd want to be here enjoying it! >> >> Melissa >> >>has anyone emailed him an invite? > > >Liz >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 11:15:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:49:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:42:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.54236.0> Precedence: bulk Good morning Bud, I would say that in seven hours we could probably do a design that could bring us in a few thousand dollars. That is how we make a living at it. The box you mentioned might take us a half hour at the most. A sheet of iridescent glass might cost us 22.00 for a whole sheet. So our supply cost is minimal. We could probably make the box of scrap glass. That is what twenty some years does for you. But........remember we all started somewhere. And I am sure that when we started it took us awhile to make a box. In this craft practice makes perfect and makes you faster. That is all it is. Patience and time. You will get there. Put a few of your pieces in the bookshop. That is sounds like a great idea. You can price your pieces high to begin with and if they don't sell. Lower them. Remember you can always lower your prices. Raising them tends to turn customers away at the beginning. I personally think that pricing is an individual thing. While a beginner might charge $45.00 a square foot. He is in essence is being paid while he learns. Which is not bad. A studio with a reputation for excellence and notable installations could charge up to $600.00 a square foot. And no one would blink an eye. You are not only paying for the work from the known studio you are paying for their reputation and years of experience. So there are no rules for pricing. I think that you have the pricing down rather well. You know to price for your time and materials. And the hourly wage will increase over time as you are able to complete more pieces within that seven hour period. Gee, sounds just like a real job doesn't it? For some of us it is. You are definitely on the right track.......good luck!!! my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Bud Britt To: Bungi Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 1:01 AM Subject: Angel Design, and just made a box >For the small pieces in the Angel design, No, not really, the small pieces >are part of the robe, and they alternate in color. > >Just got done making a box. It is a triangle with a cut off point facing >you. Stands about 4 inches high. The top is done with iridescent marbles, >with a black glass with iridescent finish as the sides of the top. The >bottom is the same black glass iridescent, with iridescent marbles as feet. > >Took me about 7 hours, I do not know how you can make a living doing glass. >Using a formula that I found on one of the members pages, I would guess that >it would work out to about 30.00 to 40.00, and that does not even come close >to the amount that I think I got in it. Well lets see,,, > >Sheet of black iridescent glass 8.00 >Foil 1.00 >Solder 3.00 >Iridescent Marbles 2.00 >Hinge 1.50 >Equipment wear/Electricity 1.00 >Total 16.50 > >So if I charge 40.00 for the box, then my hourly wage would be,,, > >23.50 / 7 = 3.36 per hour > >That's way below the minimum wage, how do you all make a living at doing >stained glass? > >I made a angel the other day, took about 8 hours, it's 6"x8" in size, bunch >of small pieces, can not even imagine someone paying for the time and >materials that I figure is in the angel. It would be around 70.00 to 90.00 > >And Mom thinks that I ought to put some stuff for sale in the church >bookstore, says that there is a lot of money in Orange County, and some >people spend it like others drink water. > >I wish I could figure out how to price my projects, that would pay for my >time and materials, and still be in a sellable range. > > >Sincerely, >Bud Britt > >computerministry@unitytustin.org >page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, >http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 11:31:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:02:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Mermaid and shock art??? Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:56:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.55614.0> Precedence: bulk Cindy wrote, >> Artistically a woman decided to build a shadow box of her abortion(SP?) >> (somewhat) naturally of a child,... the last shadow box showed a used >> tampon!!! >> For those of us living near Philadelphia home of the "Olde City Shock Art District". We know all to well of what you speak. I used to own an Art Gallery in the Olde City section of Philadelphia. Where we have lots of co-ops filled with folks who think that the only thing art has to do is shock you. Installations were the rage at the time......my all time favorite was the woman who butchered baby dolls and laid them strategically throughout the three blocks of the art district. This was her installation. This was her art. This was her statement. I think that there will always be this type of statement to be made by some. There always has been this is nothing new. Its just that years ago they used to keep it inside the galleries. Now the just keep it in your face. One thing though, this artist has the right to express his/her self. And that you can not ever censure. I may not agree with the art. But I agree with the right to create it. On the topic of the mermaid ..........I think that this work is tastefully done. Nothing offense about it. And I really like the fact that he does warn the public about the content of the work.. Good for him. Shows responsibility as an artist. I definitely like that. I also happened to have an extensive collection of nude art. So maybe that is why I like his work. And the fact that it is really well. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Cindy Pesonen Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 10:28 PM Subject: Re: Mermaid > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 11:42:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:36:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Bud Britt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:36:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.6368.0> References: <<1999Apr10.125339.0>> Precedence: bulk Bud Britt wrote: > > For the small pieces in the Angel design, No, not really, the small pieces > are part of the robe, and they alternate in color. > > Just got done making a box. It is a triangle with a cut off point facing > you. Stands about 4 inches high. The top is done with iridescent marbles, > with a black glass with iridescent finish as the sides of the top. The > bottom is the same black glass iridescent, with iridescent marbles as feet. > > Took me about 7 hours, I do not know how you can make a living doing glass. > Using a formula that I found on one of the members pages, I would guess that > it would work out to about 30.00 to 40.00, and that does not even come close > to the amount that I think I got in it. Well lets see,,, > > Sheet of black iridescent glass 8.00 > Foil 1.00 > Solder 3.00 > Iridescent Marbles 2.00 > Hinge 1.50 > Equipment wear/Electricity 1.00 > Total 16.50 > > So if I charge 40.00 for the box, then my hourly wage would be,,, > > 23.50 / 7 = 3.36 per hour > > That's way below the minimum wage, how do you all make a living at doing > stained glass? > > I made a angel the other day, took about 8 hours, it's 6"x8" in size, bunch > of small pieces, can not even imagine someone paying for the time and > materials that I figure is in the angel. It would be around 70.00 to 90.00 > > And Mom thinks that I ought to put some stuff for sale in the church > bookstore, says that there is a lot of money in Orange County, and some > people spend it like others drink water. > > I wish I could figure out how to price my projects, that would pay for my > time and materials, and still be in a sellable range. > > Sincerely, > Bud Britt > > computerministry@unitytustin.org > page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, you would'nt look at the price for one box... first of all as you get better, you get faster. for a box i do about 7 pieces an hour. the materials can be used for other projects. the glass you bought for that box may be enough to complete 3 boxes, a part of a lamp, and a few suncatchers. the solder and foil would be used in other projects as well. you were over charged for the hinge. tube hinge is about 50 cents a piece or a set (i can't remember which). and a door type hinge is about $20.00 for about 500 (in hudson stained glass catalog). basically the materials you used came out to atleast half of that. i would'nt count the foil, solder, and some of the glass. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 11:45:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:40:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: mschut Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:41:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.64125.0> References: <<3.0.1.16.19990411074625.21f75a2e@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>> Precedence: bulk mschut wrote: > > Thank you for the responses so far, a couple of you needed a little more > information in order to possibly assist me. here it is: > > I use Clasic 60 solder from Fry Metals 60/40 and Classique 2050 Soldering > Liquid Flux. Both items purchased recently from my local supplier. > > The solder joints turn out bulging and almost all of the joints have ripples. > > Also, when I finish the project, I clean off the flux with Classique 5000 > Flux remover and clean the solder with 000 steel wool, but the solder still > shows quite a dull finish. > > Hope this is the additional information you needed from me. Thanks for > your help. > Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut > Moncton, New Brunswick > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i think i see the problem. stop using the clasique 2050 flux. the stuff does'nt work at all well. i was using a iron that is 1100 degrees, and the solder melted as if i were using a match. the flux is too gooey and it absorbs the heat as it's boiled away. the solder does'nt have a real chance to melt. i use canfield soldermate II, so far it's the best flux i've ever used. though don't get it on your bare hands. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 11:58:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:19:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: A person's castle, was Re: High art/Low art Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:17:47 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.151747.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/10/99 4:26:46 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: >Broke the neighborhood pattern of >honker-house-with-four-car-attached-garage. My, my.... Don't tell me, let me guess - there's also a local ordinance saying something like: all drapes have to be white backed and no colored glass is allowed in the windows; only neutral colors are allowed on the outside of your house; your lawn has to be grass (as opposed to dichondra, pachysandra, ivy, desert landscaping/"xeriscaping," Japanese gardens, or other low-maintenance and non-waterhungry groundcovers that are far more appropriate in many parts of the country); you can't park your boat, trailer, or RV on your property; clotheslines, fences and outbuildings are prohibited (the latter mostly aimed at keeping those cheap metal sheds from popping up everywhere, but also ruling out detached garages)...... I've encountered every one of those laws in places I've lived. If people want to live with all that regulatory bull----, they might as well just live in apartments or condos............ Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:02:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:23:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:21:22 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.152122.0> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer's enquiring mind wants to know: >How about if it makes you throw up? Is it still art? Actually, there are some people out there who might count that reaction (especially if it occurred in the gallery) as "performance art"; then you'd really be in trouble, 'cuz they might try to make you a part of the installation......... Sparks, turning a little sickly green around the edges at the thought ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:09:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:58:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:57:06 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.15576.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/10/99 8:36:13 PM, glshorse@ior.com wrote: >I guess its the sort of stuff you either like or you dont...I noticed he had some >links to some Japanese animation stuff...which you either like or you dont, I happen >to like it, so that may very well be why I liked this guys stuff too....I just >find it interesting to see someone doing something "different" with glass than >the usual stuff.... Don't get me wrong, I like the "anime" graphic style itself (I nearly flunked 7th grade English because I spent most of my time in class drawing Astroboy et al.); what I hate is how anti-Utopian punk-and-grunge-violence gets into the mix, and especially the level of violence-as-sex and sex-as-violence. (OTOH, I absolutely *love* "friendly" erotica along the lines of the now-defunct "Yellow Silk" magazine....... sad to say, sex without violence, or at least without a kind of throwaway impersonality that tips over all to readily into exploitation, doesn't seem to have much of a market these days.........) What I'd really like to see is a few operas -- the Ring cycle, Magic Flute, any of the mythological or fairytale-based ones, but also any of the "Asian" themed ones like Turandot and Madame Butterfly -- done up as anime features (but *please* leave the explicit blood and guts to the imagination; didn't those people learn *anything* from Hitchcock?!). Now *that* would almost make opera interesting! I'd also settle for seeing operas in '40s to '50s classic Disney style a la Cinderella/Sleeping Beauty, before the company decided it had to put at least one sappy slapstick animal sidekick (Jiminy Cricket must be whirling in his grave over the dragon in Mulan =8-O ) and a half dozen out-of-character way-too-sugary pop-playlist songs (Peabo Bryson as Aladdin? Vanessa Williams as Pocahontas? gimme a break!) into every show. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:13:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:07:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:06:31 -0700 Message-ID: <199904111606.JAA30536@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >in Arkansas. You can swing a cat and hit Oklahoma from here. We frequently >do... great sport, that! Nothing personal to Ok's or Arks... but And you don't think the CATS take it personally???? :) Meeeeoooooowwww! C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:16:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:08:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:06:33 -0700 Message-ID: <199904111606.JAA30543@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >The Weller 100 doesn't retain heat long enough to do any kind of long >solder runs.... it's great for lead joints and small foil jobs. But, for= Or...if the heavier weight of the iron (I tried a 200 w) bothers you, get 2 100 watt Wellers and alternate them...one reheating while you use the other. Works for me. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:23:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:08:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:05:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990411120529.0069c340@scci.net> References: <<3.0.1.16.19990411074625.21f75a2e@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>> Precedence: bulk Hi Mike, Do you wax after you finish cleaning your solder lines? Melissa At 07:46 AM 4/11/99, you wrote: >Thank you for the responses so far, a couple of you needed a little more >information in order to possibly assist me. here it is: > >I use Clasic 60 solder from Fry Metals 60/40 and Classique 2050 Soldering >Liquid Flux. Both items purchased recently from my local supplier. > >The solder joints turn out bulging and almost all of the joints have ripples. > >Also, when I finish the project, I clean off the flux with Classique 5000 >Flux remover and clean the solder with 000 steel wool, but the solder still >shows quite a dull finish. > >Hope this is the additional information you needed from me. Thanks for >your help. >Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut >Moncton, New Brunswick >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:24:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:10:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:07:39 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.16739.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/10/99 8:41:06 PM, atwoods@aisl.bc.ca wrote: >I would say your iron is too cold. I stopped using the Weller 100 with >those weird temperature control tips because I just could not get the heat >right. [...] > >Personally I prefer a simple powerful 150 to 175 watt iron with a rheostat >control. Run it hot and move fast. For delicate work, just turn down the >rheostat. Simple, dependable, infinitely controllable. I'm with you on the "too cold" thang. I use a Weller Temptrol 100, run hot, move fast, and use 50/50 as filler if necessary because it's less likely to melt through than 60/40. Another question for the original sender: How are you holding your iron? I started out using the "pencil grip" and found that hard to control. (I've heard that a lot of people tend to sort of "dab the solder on" when they hold the iron that way, as if they were sketching something, and that results in a lot of roughness. I sure had that problem!) It was also tiring. Got cured of it *real fast* when I absent-mindedly tried to "choke up" a bit and hit the hot part of the iron! YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEOWWWWWWWWWWCH! Fortunately I dropped the thing immediately and so only ended up with a smallish blister. Switched my grip and almost immediately started having better luck with it. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:30:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:29:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: gjr@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Please take me off the list .......for now. Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:26:58 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.162658.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Glenna and Bungians, Hope you had a wonderful trip and learned lots in Vegas!!! My husband, boys and myself will be traveling to Disney World from Monday until Friday. Please take me off of the list a.s.a.p. When I arrive home, I will notify you to return me back on at once. Thank you!!! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:35:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:30:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bellsouth.net!mjulson From: Marion Julson To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:31:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.83119.0> Precedence: bulk Hi My name is Marion and I just joined the list a few days ago. I have been doing stained glass for about 3 years and am really enjoying it. My question is "what are the pro's & con's of band vs ring saws". I have never used a saw, but I am ready to purchase one now. I talked to a local couple who told me that they prefer the band saw over the ring saw. They told me that they heard of people who had the "Taurus II Ring saw" and that the motor seized up and the company would not back it up. I thought that this group was the place to get the right feedback, so would appreciate the help of everyone. Thanks Marion Ft. Lauderdale, FL mjulson@bellsouth.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:41:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:33:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Neon Site Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:45:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.84520.0> Precedence: bulk In my local paper today. Check this out http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-04/11/152l-041199-idx.html http://craigkraftstudio.com/ K See Art is the only way to run away without leaving home. Twyla Tharp ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:58:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:39:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:36:21 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990411143621.006a1e9c@scci.net> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990411120529.0069c340@scci.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi, I have two different kinds. 1) Stained Glass Finishing Compound made by Kem-O-Pro and 2) The Ulitmate made by Shards Glashaus. My retailer said that the 2nd one I listed is the better one. After I use the patina and dry everything off, I use the wax and everything comes out looking nice and shiny. Hope this helps, Melissa PS When I first started I tried paste car wax and that seemed to be ok but not quite as nice as this finishing compound. At 02:16 PM 4/11/99, you wrote: >Hi Melissa, > >No, I do not wax after cleaning my solder lines. What type of wax do you >use? How do you apply it? > >Thanks for your help. > > >At 12:05 04-11-1999 -0400, you wrote: >>Hi Mike, >> Do you wax after you finish cleaning your solder lines? >> >>Melissa >> >>At 07:46 AM 4/11/99, you wrote: >>>Thank you for the responses so far, a couple of you needed a little more >>>information in order to possibly assist me. here it is: >>> >>>I use Clasic 60 solder from Fry Metals 60/40 and Classique 2050 Soldering >>>Liquid Flux. Both items purchased recently from my local supplier. >>> >>>The solder joints turn out bulging and almost all of the joints have >ripples. >>> >>>Also, when I finish the project, I clean off the flux with Classique 5000 >>>Flux remover and clean the solder with 000 steel wool, but the solder still >>>shows quite a dull finish. >>> >>>Hope this is the additional information you needed from me. Thanks for >>>your help. >>>Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut >>>Moncton, New Brunswick >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >>> >> >> >Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut >Moncton, New Brunswick > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 13:08:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:42:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: outdoor booths Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:08:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.987.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" >I built my booth today!!! I'm very excited about that. It's 8'x8', wit= h lots of room for sun to shine in, and a means of putting a tarp on top ju= st in case of rain.< So what's a little rain to stained glass? Why have a tarp at all? It will just cover any light. And a little rain really won't hurt the glass. I'ld say, throw away the tarp. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 13:11:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:44:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:08:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.985.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bud Britt" >I made a angel the other day, took about 8 hours, it's 6"x8" in size, bunch of small pieces, can not even imagine someone paying for the time and materials that I figure is in the angel. It would be around 70.00 to 90.0= 0< Well, Bud, you've hit the nail on the head with this one example. Let's analyze it. I also have a standard angel pattern, 5" tall x 9" wide, but= = I produce it so that it sells for $30. How am I able to do it? 1.) simplify the design down to no more than 10 pieces. 5 is better. 2.) make the pieces easy to cut - i.e. no hard inside curves 3.) use easy-to-cut, inexpensive glass (clear cathedrals and Spectrum are my first choices) 4.) don't do them one at a time. Do them in batches of 10 at a time. This saves time setting up/cleaning up/changing from one task to another, and we all know time is money! 5.) simplify so that you CAN do on average, 1 per hour. 6.) get yourself set up to do wholesale supply purchasing to reduce the cost of materials. But you have to be a legit business to do this. Some wholesale distributors have very rigid requirements you must meet in order to purchase from them wholesale. 7.) at minimum, get registered with your state tax authority so that you get a resale number and you don't have to pay sales tax on your supplies, even if you are purchasing them at retail prices. 8.) improve your skills so that it takes you less time to create the item. Practice your cutting skills. I eliminated having to grind one full line of products simply by improving my cutting skills so that grinding was no longer necessary. That eliminates a lot of time and produces greater profits. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 13:20:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:51:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Life, death and art, was Re: Mermaid Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:49:08 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.18498.0> Precedence: bulk Not long ago, glshorse@ior.com wrote: >call me judgemental but I am not sure that I classify a shadow box with >a used tampon in it "artistic" I'd hardly call it "art" in any commonly understood aesthetic sense either (well, unless you count Dada - thanks to my other half, who I showed this to before sending it, and his take on it was: "That's found art; it's straight out of Duchamp!") but as one who's eagerly counting the days until menopause, I sure can relate!!!!!!!!! =8-O OK, now I'm done with that sicko train of thought, except to say that I've never understood "women's art" as such anyway, most of it leaves me completely cold. The one and only "feminine inner-space visual yoni-imagery" I've ever seen that I can honestly say hits me where I live is created by a pudgy, frizzy-haired 50-something male with a patch over one eye and a penchant for throwing pieces of his work into the nearest body of water for a swim before assembling the final structure - now that's a birth-and-baptism image for ya! (I'm referring, of course, to the Chihuly basket sets - anyone within screaming distance of Wilmington, Delaware, run don't walk! Admission is free from 4 to 9 pm on Wednesdays!) On to our story............ >well....would you rather have a HAPPY Danielle Steele or a >MISERABLE Sylvia Plath, I was like, well, I'll take the happy Danielle >Steele thank you... As someone who's lived all my life with moderate to severe depression, I can relate to some of Sylvia Plath's work, especially *The Bell Jar* which is a semi-autobiographical (I think) novel. She put into words a lot of what I couldn't and helped me get a bit of a handle on my own psyche at a time in my life when I thought I might go down in flames. (Thank God it didn't happen to me - way down inside I've got a streak of hope that's way too stubborn to give up and keeps poking its head through the cracks in the sidewalk like the proverbial tree that grows in Brooklyn. Between that and the fact that my inner child is a 5-year-old existentialist whose favorite line is "Hey mom! Hey dad! The Emperor's naked!" and who never takes anything entirely seriously because the one thing she knows for sure is that all adults are messed up and can be *very* ridiculous, I'm still here - be afraid. Be very afraid.... ) OTOH, I think it's a sickness of a different and dangerous kind to quasi-worship the self-indulgently self-destructive Lord (and Lady) Byrons of the world. It's one thing for an artist in any medium to draw on the experience of suffering and communicate some understanding of that experience and its impact on our shared humanity and "life on the planet as we know it"; it's quite another for that artist or his/her audience to believe the big lie that the experience is only valid if it destroys the sufferer in the process, or to think that misery is a necessary condition for creativity, or to hold up an artist's suicide as some sort of worthwhile "ultimate sacrifice for their art." It seems to me that the social mythology of the "tragic artist" relates way to the prevailing public image of the artist as somehow "different from the rest of us peons" and that a particular talent in any "creative or performing art" raises its possessor up into the ranks of heroes or even demigods (look no further than the operatic "diva" - literally, "goddess"!). Another nod at this point to my other half, who says, "The 'tragic artist' is a 19th and 20th century concept. It's all the fault of people like Beethoven's biographers [who held up his early deafness as one of life's great tragedies *and* as the necessary thing that gave him his own musical voice because he no longer had external input to interfere with what he heard in his mind's ear, and who also viewed his degenerate living habits and disagreeable personality as signs of another "new concept," that eccentricity and dysfunctionality are necessary components of true genius] and Goethe's *Werther.*" And of course *real* heroes and demigods always die spectacular deaths, it's part of the formula. (The rest of us just die little tiny deaths, including the one I fight with all the time over my lack of confidence in my own creativity, that "if I can do it, it must be trivial; it can't possibly be 'real art' because I'm just a 'regular person'!" Never mind that I live and work among professional artists and musicians and know firsthand that we all put our pants on one leg at a time and we all have to open the bathroom window after we've dropped a big one, just like everyone else!) (Lest we think that artists are the only gods out there..... forget not that "[O]n we worked, and waited for the light,/And went without the meat, and cursed the bread,/And Richard Cory, late one summer night,/Went home and put a bullet through his head." So much for tycoon-worship too! OTOH, nobody sane is saying that all those bankers who took the dive out the window in 1929 were making an "artistic statement." Not much of a saving grace, but FWIW.......) A violent death is always a tragedy, whether the body in question is a suicidal "artist," a child hit by a stray bullet in a war, or a pedestrian hit by an out-of-control car; the fact that a creative person did it to him/herself doesn't make it a creative act. Dying "before your time" sucks, period. Ain't nothing "artistic" about it. IMO, "artistic" self-destruction is meaningless, hopeless, useless, either giving up in depair or an act of displaced defiance akin to a spoiled toddler's "holding my breath until I turn blue," which most of us eventually grow out of - the main difference with the latter being that while a little kid can't usually make good on the threat, a grown-up has access to effective means of doing so. That and gratuitous-violence-and-ugliness-as-"art" are nothing but an overgrown 2-year-old's temper tantrums, and they deserve about as much attention. There's a lot of art-born-of-suffering out there today that chooses instead to communicate the strength and resilience of the human spirit in the face of living hells (war, famine, disease, "mental" illness, life on the mean streets, whatever), or the message that *all* of our humanity is violated by those living hells. Not only the pen, but the paintbrush, the camera, the VCR, the stage, the sculptor's chisel, the glass furnace, the sewing machine, the orchestra and chorus (to name a few) are mightier than the sword if they succeed in any way in confronting our complacent fat asses with the real tragedies out there. There's plenty of horrific impact in Picasso's "Guernica" or Penderecki's "Threnody: Hiroshima" or the children's poetry of Terezin (which several composers have set to music) or any of a number of less well-known works. (I almost hate to admit it, but knowing what I know about the history of institutional religion's inhumanity to humanity, I can even see the famous/infamous Serrano crucifix in the jar in that way.) To make a long story short, allusions to violence do have their place in the service of self-expression *against* violence (I suppose the same could be said regarding such ostensibly self-destructive acts like Buddhist monks setting themselves on fire in protest against oppressive governments, pacifists going on hunger strikes in jail, etc.). They say things words can't say and make us see and hear things we "can't look at or listen to" otherwise. IMO, if those expressions kick us upside the head and knock us into awareness and compassion, they're art. Otherwise they're a waste. And ultimately, one person's art is another person's garbage, and vice versa. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress. Sparks (who's never understood what the big deal is about Danielle Steele either.........) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 13:33:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:54:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: You take the high art, and I'll take the low art, and I'll be in Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:50:23 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.185023.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/11/99 1:33:54 AM, gecko@ipa.net wrote: >I'll post a pic of myself, in my glass booth, in my great-kilt.... Watch out, Patrick, looks like you've got competition in the "Mr. Great Legs" competition! >(hopefully making money hand over fist), Good luck! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 13:36:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:56:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:54:47 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.185447.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/11/99 10:44:06 AM, esavad@home.net wrote: >i use canfield soldermate II, so far it's the best flux >i've ever used. though don't get it on your bare hands. Flux-O-Matic (Inland, I think) is good stuff too. And make sure you keep your iron clean - invest in some Nokorode paste flux for those "bad solder days." Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 14:10:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:13:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:13:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.121336.0> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990411120529.0069c340@scci.net>> Precedence: bulk Melissa Hall wrote: > > Hi Mike, > Do you wax after you finish cleaning your solder lines? > > Melissa > > At 07:46 AM 4/11/99, you wrote: > >Thank you for the responses so far, a couple of you needed a little more > >information in order to possibly assist me. here it is: > > > >I use Clasic 60 solder from Fry Metals 60/40 and Classique 2050 Soldering > >Liquid Flux. Both items purchased recently from my local supplier. > > > >The solder joints turn out bulging and almost all of the joints have ripples. > > > >Also, when I finish the project, I clean off the flux with Classique 5000 > >Flux remover and clean the solder with 000 steel wool, but the solder still > >shows quite a dull finish. > > > >Hope this is the additional information you needed from me. Thanks for > >your help. > >Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut > >Moncton, New Brunswick > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass usually. sometimes if it's going to be a real pain not to wax, i won't. but so it looks professional i usually put the wax on it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 14:22:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:15:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:13:43 -0700 Message-ID: <199904112013.NAA11426@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >That's way below the minimum wage, how do you all make a living at doing >stained glass? Bud, I think this is a quesiton often asked by hobbyists wondering about making a living from selling their glass. And there's no easy answer to your question, but here's a few points to consider. 1) pros buy in quantity, therefore have a wholesale discount and materials costs are less. Where you might buy 1 pound of solder, a studio would buy a case of 25. 2) choose your patterns carefully...fewer pieces in a design make for quicker fabrication. For example, on your box, make a flat top instead of putting sides on it..eliminates 4 pieces and some soldering. There are a lot of patterns around I'd never consider making for sale, even if it would use up some of my scraps...they just take too darn long. 3) consider the large custom panel market rather than the small gift market...my experience is that this is where I can make a decent living, not in the small gift market. Christie and Dorothy may have a different input on this, however. 4) experience improves working speed, and figuring out time saving tricks like jigs and such helps speed up production. 5) decide if you REALLY want to make $3.35 an hour for your work...selling at this price devalues your own work and also makes it difficult for full time artists to compete in the marketplace as it artificially deflates the prices of glass. Good luck C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 14:39:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: outdoor booths Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:24:17 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.202417.0> Precedence: bulk Christie's enquiring mind wants to know: >Why have a tarp at all? Maybe because he's afraid his gnomon will shrink if it rains? or that his great kilt will smell like wet Toby for weeks? or that great kilt will shrink into a miniskirt and leave his gnomon bare for the world to see? I any case, if it's an outdoor show, make sure you've got lots of shower curtain weights sewn into your hem in case a windstorm comes up, laddie! Best to leave all the lassies wonderin' if it's true "what they don't wear beneath the kilt" =8-O Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm whackin' out waiting for MacInTax to download.... Sparkz-z-z-z-z-z-z-zzzz........... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 14:51:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:48:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: You take the high art, and I'll take the low art... Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:48:05 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.20485.0> Precedence: bulk Oops, the full title of that was: "You take the high art, and I'll take the low art, and I'll be in Scotland afore ye" I hope to Gawd this silly software gets done downloading soon, for all o' your sakes! Sparks, waiting to see if Blake's legs are as good-lookin' as Patrick's :-) p.s. AWWWWWWWW, FR*T!!!!!!!!!!!! My download just hung up! I shoulda kept my fat trap shut........ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 15:08:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:58:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:seaspray@island.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:56:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.12569.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net >And you don't think the CATS take it personally???? :) Meeeeoooooowwww!<= And, PPfffsssst-hiss, too! The cat owners are taking it = personally! Best, Dani Greer (and mother to five lovely felines!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 15:19:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Marion Julson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:56:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.125612.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Marion Julson >My question is "what are the pro's & con's of band vs ring saws".< We don't use saws, so will let someone else answer that question. However, one big warning.... if you cannot make the cut by hand, don't think you can get away with it using a saw. In a few years, your work will start getting stress fractures, especially on deep inside curves. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 15:31:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:10:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Marion Julson" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:01:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.13149.0> Precedence: bulk My question is....if you have been doing glass for three years without it..why do you need it now? my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Marion Julson To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 3:49 PM Subject: Band Saw vs Ring Saw >Hi > >My name is Marion and I just joined the list a few days ago. I have >been doing stained glass for about 3 years and am really enjoying it. >My question is "what are the pro's & con's of band vs ring saws". > >I have never used a saw, but I am ready to purchase one now. I talked >to a local couple who told me that they prefer the band saw over the >ring saw. They told me that they heard of people who had the "Taurus II >Ring saw" and that the motor seized up and the company would not back it >up. > >I thought that this group was the place to get the right feedback, so >would appreciate the help of everyone. > >Thanks > >Marion >Ft. Lauderdale, FL >mjulson@bellsouth.net > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 16:41:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:42:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG: TuTu Sighting Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:36:24 +0000 Message-ID: <199904112237.WAA30673@saturn> Precedence: bulk > > Well she wouldn't let go of the mike. I was holding my own until she > (unfairly) picked up her walker and hit me with it, then the fight was on. > Earlier she made a rude comment about my attire, something about how > unbecoming it was for a man to wear fringe. Don't let that blue hair fool > you ... she was wiry. I still have the marks on my neck from her trying to > strangle me with those support hose. She tried to pull my hair but all she > got was a hand full of scalp. Her twin sister joined the fray and it was > inhumane what they did to me. Blue hair, walkers, print dresses, crocheted > collars, fringe, glass, mike cords, etc. The TV crew finally had to break us > up.... just when I was getting the upper hand..... . Oh well, as the > Terminator says, "Next time baby". > > Beware this was a warm-up for when that "Brit Chick" visits. > > Hi there! This is another Brit Chick calling - an observer from a Scottish planet (how does that grab you?) What's all this c..p about your noman (however it's spelt in Irish ?) and this stained glass tutu (what's it stained by anyway?) Have you ever been to Co Laios? If you had, you'd know how they really do it over there! I gather you're going to romance the original Brit Chick over dinner - How can you do that with all those fragile appendiges! You have to be very careful when there's a table between you as well!! (Well, what could you do with a Brit Chick, a table and fragile appendiges - the mind boggles!) That's enough for a first encounter! I'm a wood person, by the way, so would preferably welcome a mahogany reply. Luv, Marguerite (disclaimer by Elisabeth - never mind Toby) This is an alias - what's yours? > > Patrick > Roses and Rainbows > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 17:11:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:57:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: outdoor booths Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:56:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.145637.0> References: <<1999Apr11.987.0>> Precedence: bulk The PEOPLEselling the stained glass need the shade...or industrial strength sun block! Dorothy Christie A. Wood wrote: > Message text written by "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" > >I built my booth today!!! I'm very excited about that. It's 8'x8', wit= > h > lots of room for sun to shine in, and a means of putting a tarp on top ju= > st > in case of rain.< > > So what's a little rain to stained glass? Why have a tarp > at all? It will just cover any light. And a little rain really > won't hurt the glass. I'ld say, throw away the tarp. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 17:43:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:51:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: High/Low Art in Tarp Covered Outdoor Booths Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:00:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.1403.0> Precedence: bulk >Maybe because he's afraid his gnomon will shrink if it rains? or that his MY gnomon is shrink-proof, water-resistant & machine washable, made from the sturdiest tungsten carbide available. I am... ... The Gnomonator! "I'll be back!" >great kilt will smell like wet Toby for weeks? or that great kilt will shrink >into a miniskirt and leave his gnomon bare for the world to see? >I any case, if it's an outdoor show, make sure you've got lots of shower >curtain weights sewn into your hem in case a windstorm comes up, laddie! Best >to leave all the lassies wonderin' if it's true "what they don't wear beneath >the kilt" I have to share my great-kilt adventure with you!! None of you will be any better for it, but at least I won't suffer alone any longer!! I constructed the great-kilt this last year for the Texas Renaissance Festival. We decided to go with a medieval Scottish theme. At the last minute before the festival, in the car, I made a daring decision. What kind of self respecting medieval Scotsman would be caught dead in modern briefs! I opted for authenticity, and a nice breeze. After all... I had 9 yards of tartan, bound tightly to my body by a 4" leather belt that made Xena's belt look like only so much lingerie. Thousands attend the festival. And I in the great big middle of 'em all... enjoying my naughty little scottish secret.... when the belt broke. I felt a draft from behind. I readjusted. I noticed a draft from the front... ...I realized that my Titanic was indeed sinking. I was gathering and clutching, and walking in a crouch... calling for my friends in a panic! Tungsten carbide hold up under the toughest conditions, but can shatter under extreme embarrassment. The kilt was wrapped in such a way that strategic clutching was of little use. Terror stricken, I hobbled along to any leather shops I could find... only to find that none of them had brought any tools with them. I tried to buy another belt, but alas, I'm 6'3"... well over 300lbs... I don't exactly shop off the shelf. With my hands going numb from clutching, I finally found a shop that gave me a piece of rope sturdy enough to handle the job. I looked like a cross between Rob Roy McGregor and Jethro Clampitt. For THIS particular festival, I'll be wearin' considerably more than a bonnie blue ribbon beneath my kilt! I'm too old for FEAR like that anymore. As to the kitty-swingin' referece... well... call it a weakness. I too am a cat lover. My own cat, Allegro, who frequently helps me type, stood up and left the room when I wrote that letter. Everyone's a critic. But truly, I am not a sadistic cat hating monster... I would never consider swingin' a kitty who wasn't at least looking for a thrill anyway. http://users2.ipa.net/~blakey/pets.html I offer as proof of my complete compliance to the feline code of conduct for human subordinates, the above webpage. As you can see... Al is a bit of a show-off. Well, I've rambled pointless for long enough. Hope you bungians have a great Sunday evening. Merry Part! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 18:14:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:10:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: , Subject: Re: You take the high art, and I'll take the low art... Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:09:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.16935.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry about your download cutting off. Hope you got it the second time. LJ -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 5:49 PM Subject: Re: You take the high art, and I'll take the low art... >Oops, the full title of that was: > >"You take the high art, and I'll take the low art, and I'll be in Scotland >afore ye" > >I hope to Gawd this silly software gets done downloading soon, for all o' >your sakes! > > >Sparks, waiting to see if Blake's legs are as good-lookin' as Patrick's :-) > >p.s. AWWWWWWWW, FR*T!!!!!!!!!!!! My download just hung up! I shoulda kept my >fat trap shut........ > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 18:26:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:21:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "Marion Julson" , Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:19:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.161955.0> Precedence: bulk Marion, Listen to PJ and Dani. I have a saw but have been doing glass 12 years and just got it as a gift Valentine's Day. Dani presented to me something that sounds so logical and I am making glass windows now that I do want to last and don't want stress cracks cropping up unexpectedly. So I took her advice and very seldom if ever use the saw for cutting glass for a window. I do some small pet memorial stones and use the saw on the letters for those and it works just fine. I have a Taurus 2.2 and have no complaints. It works great for my purpose, small letters and numbers. My boyfriend bought the saw from my local retailer (plug for you Walter) and had one little problem that he took care of right away. So I have no complaints. I don't know about the other saw. But since Dani brought up the stress cracks I think long and hard before I would use a saw on a window that I was going to sell to someone. I must say I know a lady that has a Taurus 2.2 saw and does ALL her glass cutting with the saw. So go figure. You do what you want but learn your glass cutting then use the saw for fun. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: pj friend To: Marion Julson ; glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw >My question is....if you have been doing glass for three years without >it..why do you need it now? > >my best, >pj >Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. >www.waterw.com/~artglass >Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America >Member International Guild of Glass Artists >-----Original Message----- >From: Marion Julson >To: glass@bungi.com >Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 3:49 PM >Subject: Band Saw vs Ring Saw > > >>Hi >> >>My name is Marion and I just joined the list a few days ago. I have >>been doing stained glass for about 3 years and am really enjoying it. >>My question is "what are the pro's & con's of band vs ring saws". >> >>I have never used a saw, but I am ready to purchase one now. I talked >>to a local couple who told me that they prefer the band saw over the >>ring saw. They told me that they heard of people who had the "Taurus II >>Ring saw" and that the motor seized up and the company would not back it >>up. >> >>I thought that this group was the place to get the right feedback, so >>would appreciate the help of everyone. >> >>Thanks >> >>Marion >>Ft. Lauderdale, FL >>mjulson@bellsouth.net >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 19:14:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:17:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!belliveau-gerald From: "Gerry Belliveaau" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: whichdoc3 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:17:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.111725.0> Organization: Microsoft Corporation Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = day into one at least. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just opened my mail and no wonder = there was 32=20 new messages, 9 came from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and = try to=20 combine all messages by day into one at = least.
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 19:44:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:34:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: re: E-tour Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:17:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.141744.0> Organization: stainedglassdesign.com Precedence: bulk My husband and I will be at Summitt Glass to meet Elisabeth. We are really excited. We also want to learn some new methods. See you there. Sue and Bill from Alton, Illinois ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 19:58:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:37:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: stone protection? Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:19:30 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.141930.0> Organization: stainedglassdesign.com Precedence: bulk What do any of you recommend putting on your stepping stone after they are finished to help seal and protect them. I know Ed Hoy has several types of stuff for sale, but I do not know what is best. Any recommendations? Thanks ahead of time. Sue P ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 20:16:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:44:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: High/Low Art in Tarp Covered Outdoor Booths Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:43:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.154356.0> Precedence: bulk Blake, I think I have a picture of that......LOL. If I can find it I'll post it to the newsgroup. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 21:14:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:56:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:55:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.125542.0> References: <<1999Apr11.125612.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > Message text written by Marion Julson > >My question is "what are the pro's & con's of band vs ring saws".< > > We don't use saws, so will let someone else answer that question. > However, one big warning.... if you cannot make the cut by hand, > don't think you can get away with it using a saw. In a few years, > your work will start getting stress fractures, especially on deep > inside curves. Marion, Could you please kindly give us a real-life example from your own experience of this "stress fracture" bit you're talking about. I believe you'll find that any stress fractures were due to improperly cut glass, and not to the actual shape of the glass. The pieces of a stained glass panel should be properly cut with the pieces fitting together snugly, There should be no major deviations from the original design lines that have to be compensated for by the binding metal. Stress fractures should only occur when the glass is not correctly cut. How the glass is actually cut to achieve a close fit is irrelevant. In fact, since the cuts are much more precise with a glass bandsaw, the fit should be better, and there should be fewer stress fractures, if any, with a stained glass panel made with a bandsaw. Regards ............ Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 21:26:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:07:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:15:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.171527.0> Precedence: bulk >I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = >from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = >day into one at least. Well I for one ENJOY witchdoc3's posts!! Keep 'em coming Sparks!!! The more posts I get from you each day, the more chuckles I get! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 21:35:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:13:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: giraffe joos Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:21:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.172153.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0230_01BE8532.DE331020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok. Suzanne or any other bungian in the know... Did we ever determine who is offering Giraffe Joos for sale? If we did, I prolly wouldn't know it due to all the down time I've had = lately... and since I've wiped my hard drive clean 3.... count 'em... 3 = times in as many weeks... sure wouldn't have a record of it anymore!! I'd like to order some. So please... if you're a purveyor of this = wonder polymer... please lemme know so I can order. Thanks! Blake :-) ------=_NextPart_000_0230_01BE8532.DE331020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok.  Suzanne or any other = bungian in the=20 know...
 
Did  we ever determine who is = offering=20 Giraffe Joos for sale?
If we did, I prolly wouldn't know it = due to all=20 the down time I've had lately... and since I've wiped my hard drive = clean 3....=20 count 'em... 3 times in as many weeks... sure wouldn't have a record of = it=20 anymore!!
 
I'd like to order some.  So = please... if=20 you're a purveyor of this wonder polymer... please lemme know so I can=20 order.
 
Thanks!
Blake
:-)
------=_NextPart_000_0230_01BE8532.DE331020-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 21:44:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:39:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr11.193839.0> References: <<1999Apr11.111725.0>> Precedence: bulk While we are complaining, could you kindly learn to post to email lists in plain text only? On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Gerry Belliveaau wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = > from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = > day into one at least. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > >
I just opened my mail and no wonder = > there was 32=20 > new messages, 9 came from href=3D"mailto:whichdoc3@aol.com">whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and = > try to=20 > combine all messages by day into one at = > least.
> > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860-- > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 22:25:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: Gerry Belliveaau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:14:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.201450.0> References: <<1999Apr11.111725.0>> Precedence: bulk Your message came through blank. You sent it in mime. Gerry Belliveaau wrote: ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 22:45:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:30:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: Gerry Belliveaau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:27:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.202746.0> References: <<1999Apr11.111725.0>> Precedence: bulk You really counted how many posts that came from 1 address! Wow, that's cool I wish I had time to do that. Maybe it's you that should get a life. Gerry Belliveaau wrote: ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 22:53:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Gerry Belliveaau" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:43:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.184322.0> Precedence: bulk Obviously you are new or something. We don't allow personal attacks on this list. -----Original Message----- From: Gerry Belliveaau To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 9:28 PM Subject: whichdoc3 >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = >from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = >day into one at least. > >------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > >
I just opened my mail and no wonder = >there was 32=20 >new messages, 9 came from href=3D"mailto:whichdoc3@aol.com">whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and = >try to=20 >combine all messages by day into one at = >least.
> >------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860-- > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 23:14:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:58:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: Gerry Belliveaau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:56:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.20561.0> References: <<1999Apr11.111725.0>> Precedence: bulk Sorry, You wanted all posts in one. Your message came through blank. You sent it in mime. I always enjoy and learn from Witchdoc3 posts. You really counted how many posts that came from 1 address! Wow, that's cool I wish I had time to do that. Maybe it's you that should get a life. Goldpaws Gerry Belliveaau wrote: ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 23:22:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:08:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Gerry Belliveaau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:12:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.19126.0> References: <<1999Apr11.111725.0>> Precedence: bulk > I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came > from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life Gerry, So nice to meet you too. If you only got 32 email messages today, and 9 were from Sparks, consider yourself blessed. I personally found your email the most unpleasant to hit my box today. T Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 23:44:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:48:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.214816.0> Precedence: bulk Gee, I have been getting e-mail from bungi for about 6 months, and it seems that the object of a e-mail page is e-mail. If you don't like a post just delete it. This is a great place, a wonderful resource for many of us. And I don't feel put off by a person posting e-mails as many times as they wish. Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 00:14:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:02:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Back From Vegas Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:02:28 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, Well I'm back from Las Vegas. :^) Thanks to all those who needed subscription changes/addition. etc. for being so patient. I just got home and am trying to get through all the mail. I had a excellent time at the show! The teachers I had I thought were fantastic. Tommy G, Newy Fagan, Linda Abbott and Jayne Persico have all insired me to no end!! Wonderful instructors! I didn't win the gallery of excellence but was told buy the manager I only lost by 2 votes. That made me pretty good. I've only been at this 4 yrs. The winners had been doing this for many years. One was even a teacher. Now my mind won't stop thinking of what my next project is going to be. I even picked up a kiln...:^) I may never be able to sleep...... -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 00:23:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:05:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Teachers Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:03:56 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Ooopps I forgot to mention Cathy Claycomb,,,. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 01:45:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:38:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Re: outdoor booths Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:14:01 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.3141.0> Precedence: bulk Rain might not hurt the glass, but it can sure make the day no fun for you! I've spent hours at a craft market without the foresight to bring a tarp "just in case"! cold, wet, and then the wind picked up! Suncatchers swinging wildly, and a borrowed golf umbrella doing it's best to "Poppins" me away, and knock over my stand with panels as well. And the market announcer, standing a few metres away, cackling away and announcing over the microphone to everyone "ha! ha! looks like young katie is having a bit of trouble over there with our little summer storm! ha! ha!" Trust me. Take the tarp! katie. -----Original Message----- From: Christie A. Wood To: Bungi Date: Monday, 12 April 1999 6:13 Subject: outdoor booths >Message text written by "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" >>I built my booth today!!! I'm very excited about that. It's 8'x8', wit= >h >lots of room for sun to shine in, and a means of putting a tarp on top ju= >st >in case of rain.< > >So what's a little rain to stained glass? Why have a tarp >at all? It will just cover any light. And a little rain really >won't hurt the glass. I'ld say, throw away the tarp. > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >http://www.igga.org/wood/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 02:00:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:39:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Gerry Belliveaau" , Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:36:18 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.33618.0> Precedence: bulk I, also, find whichdoc3's posts always amusing and often thought-provoking. I'd rather get 9 of these a day than ANY amount of grousing. you can always use your inbox assistant or some other filter to not receive messages from a particular sender, if you'd prefer, but it's rather poor form to insult that person ("get a life"??), don't you think? Katie -----Original Message----- From: Blake, Wayne, & Susan To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, 12 April 1999 14:31 Subject: Re: whichdoc3 >>I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = >>from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = >>day into one at least. > > >Well I for one ENJOY witchdoc3's posts!! >Keep 'em coming Sparks!!! >The more posts I get from you each day, the more chuckles I get! > >Blake >:-) > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 02:16:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:54:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Gerry Belliveaau" , Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:47:07 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.9477.0> Precedence: bulk Well I had to hunt but there was a message in the garbage and that was garbage as well! I think you might be on the wrong list.. BtB -----Original Message----- From: Gerry Belliveaau <belliveau-gerald@email..msn..com> To: glass@bungi..com <glass@bungi..com> Date: 12 April 1999 03:17 Subject: whichdoc3 >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.. > >------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447..8D3A3860 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = >from whichdoc3@aol..com.. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = >day into one at least.. > >------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447..8D3A3860 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4..0 Transitional//EN"> ><HTML><HEAD> ><META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> ><META content=3D"MSHTML 5..00..2014..210" name=3DGENERATOR> ><STYLE></STYLE> ></HEAD> ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I just opened my mail and no wonder = >there was 32=20 >new messages, 9 came from <A=20 >href=3D"mailto:whichdoc3@aol..com">whichdoc3@aol..com</A>.. Get a life and = >try to=20 >combine all messages by day into one at = >least..</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> > >------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447..8D3A3860-- > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi..com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi..com >Archives available at http://www..bungi..com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 02:22:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:23:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: help with soldering Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:07:24 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.10724.0> Precedence: bulk >Those temperature control tips just take the control out of your hands and >put it into the hands of some guy in a lab hundreds of miles away who thinks >he knows what is best for you. Bull crap! You need to control the >temperature yourself to match the solder and foil or came thickness. How >does some engineer know what temperature is best for the work your doing? The temperature control keeps the iron at a fixed temperature when the iron is standing by not being used.It does not matter what the power of the iron is. The heavier the job ie more heat needed the more powerful the iron required. Keeping the bit at a fixed temperature is mainly to save the iron bit itself. If it wasn't then with the more powerful irons the bit temperature would be too high and the bit would self destruct by oxidation of the metal.Without the thermostat the only way you can keep the temperature of the bit down is by continueous use soldering on the job or by placing the iron bit in a heat sink when not in use. Its why some of us use irons without thermostats but use simple controllers to turn the power down into the the iron. I use a light bulb dimmer control on a plain cheap iron, when I need the extra output I simply turn up the control. Brandon UK ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 02:37:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Life, death and art, was Re: Mermaid Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:06:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.15634.0> References: <<1999Apr11.18498.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk As someone who's lived all my life with moderate to severe depression, I can relate to some of Sylvia Plath's work, especially *The Bell Jar* which is a semi-autobiographical (I think) novel. She put into words a lot of what I couldn't and helped me get a bit of a handle on my own psyche at a time in my life when I thought I might go down in flames. yes Sparks, I too have struggled with some serious depression...but I also have desperately wanted to climb out of it and while its always good to know your not the only one...seeing someone slide down deeper and deeper like that makes it worse, not better.... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 02:53:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:24:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:03:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.15321.0> References: <<1999Apr11.15576.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > but *please* leave the explicit blood and guts to the imagination; didn't > those people learn *anything* from Hitchcock?!). Now *that* would almost make > opera interesting! now now, you are saying this to someone who hangs on just about every word Stephen King ever wrote..... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 03:56:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:57:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 05:03:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199904120855.EAA24535@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I believe you'll find that any stress fractures were due to > improperly cut glass, and not to the actual shape of the glass. Really, Bob? How about L-shaped pieces of glass? I've seen work that included such shapes and almost every one of them had cracked. I think one has to allow for the nature of the material when working in any medium and there *are some shapes that one just shouldn't cut into glass, no? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 04:54:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: rrk , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr11.195423.0> Precedence: bulk Bob, you beat me too it. I would like to hear about real life examples of stress cracking due to saw cuts. I have used a saw on designs I chose to keep in one piece rather than to break it up with cit lines. I agree with your comment around glass that has a poor fit, be it cut with a band saw or a carbide cutter. I'm pretty sure the saw manufacturers have their own perspective on the subject too. I would think one would be more careful making all sweeping statements regarding the after effects of a saw cut piece. To another point, Marion asked for a simple comaparison of ring vs band saw, not rather or not she should use a saw or not. Since I have only used a band saw, I can't make that comparison, but I have yet to read a reply that makes one. All I have seen is the poor woman geting beat up on for asking the question. Well you know what they say about opinions, and thats what makes this group so great, every one gets to express them. Rick === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 06:17:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:30:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: belliveau-gerald@email.msn.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: whichdoc3 aka Witchdoc3 (lest we get our witches confused with our Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:28:27 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr12.112827.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/11/99 10:14:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, belliveau-gerald@email.msn.com writes: > Get a life and try to combine all messages by day into one at least. Hey Gerald, Correct me if I am wrong, but combining "all messages into one at least" means more than one is acceptable. Possibly you meant combine all messages into only one. Oh well, that is just semantics. What I really wanted to say was I appreciate Sparks sending multiple messages. If I am not interested in a thread I can delete the messages based on the subject line. Wish everyone was as conscientious as Sparks regarding using the subject line to convey what the message is regarding. Keep up the good work Sparks. Oh, Gerald almost forgot, pleased to meet ya, feel free to share your own fantastic glass ideas, we are always willing to hear them. IA (last in a long line of Spark's groupies) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 07:06:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 05:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Patina and wax, was Re: Help with soldering Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:29:44 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr12.122944.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/11/99 4:10:58 PM, esavad@home.net wrote: >Melissa Hall wrote: >> >> Hi Mike, >> Do you wax after you finish cleaning your solder lines? > >usually. sometimes if it's going to be a real pain not to wax, i won't. >but so it looks professional i usually put the wax on it. One notable exception: if you're going for a really ***BLACK*** patina. I did a repair a while back on a small lampshade with that really black patina and tried what someone had suggested not too long before, applying the patina carefully to keep it as much on the solder as possible (to avoid discoloring the glass), not rubbing it at all, and leaving it for a couple of hours. Then I rinsed and dried the piece thoroughly and instead of polishing the whole thing, I took a rag that had a little bit of polish residue left on it from an earlier job and just wiped the fingerprints off. I suppose time will tell if it holds up as well as the original, but I for one couldn't tell by looking where the repair left off and the original began. Speaking of putting the patina on the solder and not on the glass, I now have a new tool in the toolbox. (I hope you'll all excuse me if I mentioned this before.) Christie will be the first to tell you I'm among the world's sloppiest patina-ers, and a few weeks ago we were running low on black and had a whole big panel to finish. So I brought in one of those sponge-top applicator bottles, the kind they use in offices to "lick" envelopes, half-filled it, and was utterly amazed at how little patina solution it took to do the entire panel. That little 50-cent bottle paid for itself immediately! An empty "glue pen" bottle works great too. Sparks (now in round 3 with the MacInTax download and have to bag it because a big thunderstorm just blew in and I have to leave for a gig anyway, grrrrrrrrrrrr!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 07:35:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 05:33:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: support question Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:35:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.23526.0> Precedence: bulk (...we interrupt this e-mail to bring the following announcement, "btw I've loved all the posts on who considers what art, topless booths at art/craft fairs, etc. that's what makes bungi so interesting and lively -- all the diversity of topics!"....we now return you to the lurker e-mail already in progress...) Last night I started designing two long, narrow leaded panels that are going to be hanging side by side -- each one measures 14" x 34.5" . Dutiful me started thinking right away "okay, draw in where the horizontal support's going to go," and then I began to re-think it. I started thinking that at 14" it might be narrow enough that I don't need horizontal support. I don't know that I've ever heard any kind of "rule of thumb" on support, just basically "use your own best judgment." Does anyone have any thoughts on this? The piece is going to be basically geometric, 2" outside border, with 2" square bevels in the corners, next inside border is going to be 1" with 1" square bevels on the inside corners so the area where the design is going to go winds down to 8" x 27.75". I figured I'd better post this before I finally came up with a design I fell in love with only to find out I have to re-draw it with a support line! Thanks! P.S. Keep up all the posts Sparks, et al., I love them all! And if, by chance, there are posts I don't like or care to read (ahem, Mr. Gerry Belliveaau), there's always the one great gift Bill Gates gave us....that good old delete key! If anyone has a problem finding that particular key on their keyboard, I know there's a few folks here who would be more than happy to "walk you through" finding it. :> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 07:37:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 05:43:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:48:56 +0000 Message-ID: <199904121241.IAA26013@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Bob, you beat me too it. I would like to hear about > real life examples of stress cracking due to saw cuts. Before I get beat up on, too, I'd like to note that my comment about L-shaped pieces and other shapes that are inappropriate to glass had nothing to do with saws, band or otherwise. Saws make it possible to cut any shape, but IMHO not all shapes are appropriate, since some shapes will inevitably break regardless of whether they've been sawn out or painstakingly grozed out. And by "inevitably" I mean "there's just no way around it: they'll break eventually." Nature of the material. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 08:06:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: maruca@netaxs.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:46:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.14636.0> References: <<1999Apr11.193839.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk I second that motion for anyone who posts in mime. I automatically delete those, but I read Gary's (have to go to View and then Page Source, a real PIA). Keep the posts coming Sparks. I love em. BTW re ring saw. My husband decided I needed a Taurus Ring Saw last Oct. It's still sitting in the box and probably will be sent back. I haven't had a need for it yet, so if I can't cut a particular cut by hand, then it shouldn't be done. Just MHO. Carol T maruca@netaxs.com wrote: > While we are complaining, could you kindly learn to post to email lists in > plain text only? > > On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Gerry Belliveaau wrote: > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = > > from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = > > day into one at least. > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 > > Content-Type: text/html; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > > > > > > >
I just opened my mail and no wonder = > > there was 32=20 > > new messages, 9 came from > href=3D"mailto:whichdoc3@aol.com">whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and = > > try to=20 > > combine all messages by day into one at = > > least.
> > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860-- > > > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 08:29:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:33:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , "rrk" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:25:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.52548.0> Precedence: bulk Geez Bob...i only asked her a question. And I do think I know a little about cutting glass into irregular shapes. Your reasoning for using a bandsaw is a tad misguided. Luddite ?? I think not. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: rrk To: pj friend Cc: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 10:44 PM Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw > > >pj friend wrote: > >> My question is....if you have been doing glass for three years without >> it..why do you need it now? > >PJ, > >Well geez PJ, women washed clothes by hand for 10's of thousands of years, >why should they want a washing machine? People walked everywhere on foot for >most of recorded history with only the elite having the alternative of >animal-drawn conveyances, why would anyone want a bicycle? Or an >automobile? Furthermore, if God had wanted man to fly, he would have given >him wings right? > >Following the above reasoning, in our domain, then why use a grinder? Why >not just use a carborundum stone and smooth the glass edges only by hand? > >The glass bandsaw is a definite advance in glass cutting and a good tool to >have for anyone cutting flat glass into irregular shapes. It is not the only >tool, and shouldn't be the only tool a craftsman uses, but it is a good one >since it allows designs previously difficult to impossible to achieve by >other means to actually be realized. Stained glass is an extremely >heterogeneous mixture with the hardness, grain structure, and thickness >varying quite a bit even within a single pane of glass. As everyone on this >list knows, this renders glass cutting somewhat unpredictable. A glass >bandsaw removes a great deal of this unpredictability and this is >particularly important for pieces with inside curves. > >This bungi glass list has a definite Luddite flavor at times ... none more >apparent than in this particular response. This neo-luddite strain is >particularly amusing on this email list since we're all communicating though >computers. > >Regards .......... Bob > >PS ... I'm switching back and forth between computers, thanks to all that >responded to my question about wholesale glass prices. I'll write during the >next week to those that responded. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 08:40:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:41:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Suzanne" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:37:51 -0400 Message-ID: <199904121338.JAA09113@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 4/12/99 1:12 AM Suzanne gunnx4@ix.netcom.com >> I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came >> from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life > > >Gerry, > >So nice to meet you too. >If you only got 32 email messages today, and 9 were from Sparks, >consider yourself blessed. >I personally found your email the most unpleasant to hit my box today. ...and I fully agree with Suzanne. Everything Sparks has to say is worth reading, unlike your post. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 08:53:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:51:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, Walter) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Plug Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:58:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.55844.0> Organization: The Glass Safari Precedence: bulk Hi Linda Jo...Thanks for the plug about the saw and your local Retailer..Just need a few hundred more..HeHe.. THANKS Walter ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 09:09:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:56:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Curves and stress, was Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:55:58 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr12.135558.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/11/99 11:15:15 PM, ezcomezgo@earthlink.net wrote: >Stress fractures should only occur when the glass is not >correctly cut. They tend to occur over time especially in large windows/panels, as the window settles (and eventually sags if it's not properly maintained). Julie Sloan's book has a good photo of a star made of 5 deeply curved "interwoven" pieces, and every piece is cracked through the curve in almost exactly the same place. No matter how well they're cut, pieces (especially long ones) with deep curves are particularly subject to inward or outward stresses at the curves. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 09:15:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:00:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: giraffe joos Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:57:33 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr12.135733.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/11/99 11:36:18 PM, gecko@ipa.net wrote: >Did we ever determine who is offering Giraffe Joos for sale? I seem to remember reading recently that you can get it from one of our own: debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 No, I don't get a percentage........ Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 09:39:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:04:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: High/Low Art in Tarp Covered Outdoor Booths Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:02:50 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990412090250.00696464@popd.ipa.net> References: <> Precedence: bulk Aye! I DO grow a beard for the festivals!! I just started my upcoming festival beard this last weekend. Unfortunately, for the 'flaming red' part, I'd have to borrow some Miss Clairol from one of my roommies. Hmmmmm...... Nah! I seriously doubt that Rob Roy had black roots! At 09:57 AM 4/12/99 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 4/11/99 7:44:31 PM, you wrote: > >>I looked like a cross between Rob Roy McGregor and Jethro Clampitt. > > > >Then again, with 9 yards of good wool plaid, even a big guy like you could >probably construct a convincing toga in an emergency! > >What my enquiring mind wants to know is: do you grow a great flamin' red >beard for these festivals? > > >Sparks > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 10:14:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:31:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Get a life Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:37:24 +0000 Message-ID: <199904121429.KAA27252@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Oh, Gerald almost forgot, pleased to meet ya, feel free to share > your own fantastic glass ideas, we are always willing to hear them. D'you really thing we'll ever hear from Gerald again? I think he was an MS-log-on-bitch-cumudgeonly-log-off-one-shot wonder. He ID'd himself as being from Microsoft Corporation, so he probably has his hands full meeting his daily quota of calls. (Ouch! That was mean-spirited of me, wasn't it?) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 10:35:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:31:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: have to bag it Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:37:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199904121429.KAA27192@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Sparks (now in round 3 with the MacInTax download and have to bag it > because a big thunderstorm just blew in and I have to leave > for a gig anyway, grrrrrrrrrrrr!) Please allow me to highly recommend cable modems. If you have cable TV, I suspect that your cable company offers cable modem service at speeds (in my case) of 55 times faster than dialup 28.8 baud modems. Zoweeee! (love it!). Hereabouts, the cable company *gives the modem to you (a $350 value, they say), installation is about $50 (spread over 3 months here), monthly cost is about $30 (I eliminated at $26/month dedicated modem phone line to offset that) and you're ALWAYS ON LINE ( just like your TV set if you're on cable ... turn it on, you're connected; launch your email tool or your web browser, you're connected ... no dialup, no cutoffs. In the past 5 months, I've NEVER been cut off. My cable supplier is Adelphia ... see http://powerlink.adelphia.net/ if you're interested). Download times are unbelievably fast. Security is just as good; rock solid. Albert P.S. Sparks, what're you doing dl'ing tax software NOW, three days before the deadline? I did that about 2 weeks ago, realized that I'd NEVER figurer out that IRS mess, called an accountant, took all my stuff to him. I specialize in ANYTHING but taxes; that's what HE does. So I turned it over to him. Sleeping better now. A. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 10:39:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:27:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: post.queensu.ca!seguinr From: "Rachelle Seguin" To: "Bungi Glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: full lamp forms Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:24:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.72423.0> Precedence: bulk I recently purchased a 16" full lamp form. I have a pattern for a lamp (Worden system) that required a sectional form and you do this six times. I'm wondering if there is some way to use this pattern with a full form rather than just a sectional. It seems to me there must be some way to do it. Can anyone help? Rachelle Seguin M.A. Research Associate Department of Family Medicine Queen's University ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 10:58:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Stress Fractures,,, Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:47:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.04746.0> Precedence: bulk Good Morning Bungi'ans, I have been thinking also about buying one of the ring or band saws. And have read the posts about stress fractures, and wondered about them. The edges that I see from the samples at the glass store seem to look like they have just been ground, with a little flaking like someone used a fast bit. Now I understand that some of us on the list, think of glass as a medium that ought to last for decades, if not longer. And some of us might think that once the piece has left our shop or bench, or it has been around for a few years, that it has perhaps served its useful visual/artistic life, or perhaps is not our problem anymore, maybe is/might even be about planned obsolescence. Thinking about how the saw blade is traveling through the glass sheet body (vertically, instead of in parallel), I can see that very small, perhaps microscopic cracks could be being introduced into the edge wall of the saw blade kerf. Now, I am not a glass expert by any stretch of the imagination, only I could see that with this introduction of the small cracks, even just a few microscopic ones, that with the effects of thermal heating and cooling (from being in a window), that the expansion and contraction could place the needed and required stress's on the glass to make or help those small or microscopic cracks to enlarge, into the visual detection range. Just my two cheap machine made glass marbles worth,,, ;-) And no, I still have not decided one way or the other. Only am willing to look more in-depth at the possibilities of what is offered. Oh, almost forgot, anybody know if $1.50 per pound is a good price for original handrolled glass sheets??? A local glass blower has offered me that cost on buying sheets of glass from them. I have looked at some samples, and like the glass. Only do not know if the cost/quality is good. Mainly because I have only used machine made glass. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 11:05:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:30:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass saw, yes or no Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:37:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199904121530.LAA27900@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > BTW re ring saw. My husband decided I needed a Taurus Ring Saw last > Oct. It's still sitting in the box and probably will be sent back. > I haven't had a need for it yet, so if I can't cut a particular cut > by hand, then it shouldn't be done. I'll second *that emotion! If it can't be cut by hand, it shouldn't be cut. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 11:20:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:32:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: townsqr.com!tinkerbell From: "tinkerbell" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: witchdoc Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:35:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.33545.0> Precedence: bulk I also enjoy the posts from Witchdoc...was hoping to see 9 more today hehehehe tinkerbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 11:26:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:38:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netphase.net!deskins From: "Lou Deskins" To: bungi glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: whichdoc3 aka Witchdoc3 (lest we get our witches confused with Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:38:54 -0400 Message-ID: <199904121538.LAA10630@www.netphase.net> Precedence: bulk IA (last in a long line of Spark's groupies) not last IA.... but one of many who agree with you, and love Spark's posts !!! If you don't like getting so much email - don't sign up to a mailing list duhhhh >In a message dated 4/11/99 10:14:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >belliveau-gerald@email.msn.com writes: > >> Get a life and try to combine all messages by day into one at least. > >Hey Gerald, > >Correct me if I am wrong, but combining "all messages into one at least" >means more than one is acceptable. Possibly you meant combine all messages >into only one. Oh well, that is just semantics. What I really wanted to say >was I appreciate Sparks sending multiple messages. If I am not interested in >a thread I can delete the messages based on the subject line. Wish everyone >was as conscientious as Sparks regarding using the subject line to convey >what the message is regarding. Keep up the good work Sparks. > >Oh, Gerald almost forgot, pleased to meet ya, feel free to share your own >fantastic glass ideas, we are always willing to hear them. > >IA (last in a long line of Spark's groupies) > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 11:32:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:10:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Tim & Adriana Atwood" Subject: Re: Suggestions for a stop Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:23:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.172352.0> Precedence: bulk >>3. Steam bend wood. Many woods do not steam bend well - you definitely do NOT want to use pine for steam bending - I would suggest reading up on what woods are best. You will need a steamer - a section of plastic sewer pipe with caps on each end then attached to a kettle can be made to work. There are also chemicals (mainly ammonia) which improve the bending characteristics of wood. You will need to use full safety precautions (concentrated ammonia steam can really do a number on your eyes and skin).<< Let me add a couple of pointers that came my way while steam bending frames for a boat. Use green oak, not kiln dried oak, as fresh from the tree as possible. Bend over a form that is shaped to the inside of your oval and use a flexable steel backing plate to prevent splintering. The backing plate is bent on the outside of the wood and holds the wood to the form. An easier and better way out might be to pay the necessary price to have a high class wood shop make you sawn molding. I have never seen stops for an oval that did not overlap the face of the door. These stops are best sawn, joined and routed. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 11:50:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:42:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: whichdoc3 Date: Mon Apr 12 09:41:21 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.71921.0> Organization: Taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk boy i must be lucky....i get about 150 e-mails a day---with the extra ones from sparks, i get about 20 a day from "her" --- funny how luck i am can make someone else feel imposed upon....hummmmm oh well, again, my insane opinion.... debbie jo taylor kleeman@one.net www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 On Sunday, April 11, 1999 9:17 PM, Gerry Belliveaau [SMTP:belliveau-gerald@email.msn.com] wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = > from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = > day into one at least. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > >
I just opened my mail and no wonder = > there was 32=20 > new messages, 9 came from href=3D"mailto:whichdoc3@aol.com">whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and = > try to=20 > combine all messages by day into one at = > least.
> > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860-- > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 12:06:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:50:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Fw: Desag Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:37:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.23711.0> Precedence: bulk Everyone, Arnie has said that he will check on the DESAG glass for us. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Arnie Bazensky To: Bud Britt Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 08:22 AM Subject: Re: Desag |Bud, | |I will contact my sources at Schott Corporation in new York, the distributor |of Dersag's product line. I will inform you when I have some interesting |info! | |Thanks, | |Arn |-----Original Message----- |From: Bud Britt |To: Arnie Bazensky ; Bungi |Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 6:13 PM |Subject: Desag | | |>Hello Everyone, |> |>I just looked up some literature that Mr. Arnie Bazensky (West Coast |Manager |>of Schott Glass, Germany) gave me. On the back page, it reads DESAG with |>their logo, and below it, "A Schott Group Company" |> |>The contact info is: |> |>Deutsche Spezialglass AG |>P.O. Box 2032 |>W-3223 Grunenplan |>Germany |> |>Telephone (0 51 87) 7 71-530 |>Telefax (0 51 87) 771547 |>Telex 175187810 desag d |>Teletex 5187810=DESAG |> |>I do not know if the mouthblown glass is still being made, although I am |>sure that if you would like to contact Arnie directly, he would be able to |>find out, and perhaps get a lead on some for you. |> |>Arnie Bazensky |>E-mail Address(es): |> ajb.sgt-west@worldnet.att.net |> |>Arnie, folks from the Bungi Stained Glass mailing list, might be asking |>about the DESAG glass. |> |> |>Sincerely, |>Bud Britt |> |>computerministry@unitytustin.org |>page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, |>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ |> |> |> | ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 12:12:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:54:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: , Subject: Re: giraffe joos Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:42:26 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.24226.0> Precedence: bulk >From what she told me, she gives everyone on the list a bulk discount, that is, passes the bulk prices on in the form of the single unit prices. I guess you might think of that as getting a percentage, only the result goes to the buyer, not the lead giver. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 09:30 AM Subject: Re: giraffe joos | |In a message dated 4/11/99 11:36:18 PM, gecko@ipa.net wrote: | |>Did we ever determine who is offering Giraffe Joos for sale? | |I seem to remember reading recently that you can get it from one of our own: | | debbie taylor | kleeman@one.net | http://www.taylordexpressions.com | your complete stained glass supply source | 1-888-488-9616 | |No, I don't get a percentage........ | | |Sparks | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 12:33:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:28:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Art: High Low and The Simpsons Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:26:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.32610.0> Precedence: bulk Considering the recent discussions of High Art, Low Art, Junk Art, Shock Art - I think this is pertinent. I know it is only marginally related to glass, but I hope you will all forgive my little transgression. Did any of you see the new episode of the Simpsons? I don't know when you get the Simpsons where you are, but this episode said it better than I ever could. Homer becomes instantly famous for his "Outsider Art". Pokes fun at just about every form of art there is - has all the artistic pretensions - snobbish gallery owners - museums - Euro-trash - Andy Warhol - Dada. The image of Picasso writing nasty cubist letters to the editor was great. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 12:43:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:39:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:20:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.92026.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net >3) consider the large custom panel market rather than the small gift market...my experience is that this is where I can make a decent living, not in the small gift market. Christie and Dorothy may have a different input= on this, however.< Well, Carol, I guess you've seen my reply to Bud by now. But as to whether to do the small gift market verus doing the large custom panel market, I say you can do both. I do. About 55% of my income is from large custom panels. Then 40% from the small gift market, and the rest from retail sales of other artists' works in my store. Different strokes for different folks. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 13:17:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:40:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: outdoor booths Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:20:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.92028.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Family Account >The PEOPLEselling the stained glass need the shade...or industrial strength sun block!< You got it - sun block! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 13:20:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:47:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:20:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.92021.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Melissa Hall >Hi Mike, Do you wax after you finish cleaning your solder lines? Melissa< Sorry about this, but the first image that popped into my demented little mind was one of Mike waxing his legs after soldering. Oh! You mean waxing the stained glass panel! Now if this question was aimed at Patrick, we would all know what was being waxed (she said with a wicked gleem in her eye). Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 13:48:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:55:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Albert Lewis" , Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:42:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.3426.0> Precedence: bulk Well, one of my friends at the church has a daughter that works for MS, and she (her daughter) is in major physical body upset (acid stomach, shakes, etc.) right now. Seems that she has to give a computer software demonstration for Mr. Bill, and is worried about his reaction if the software does not work perfectly. Seems something happened awhile back about/during a major PR event, and some buggy software that Mr. Bill himself demonstrated, and it bugged out on him. Perhaps with that kind of stress, them MS folks, want everything just so so, sweet to the point, with out any of the sights and sounds and smells, and learning, along the way,,, Seems like a pretty drab and un-communicative way to live, enjoy, celebrate, experience, just plain share life with everyone else !!! It's amazing what a little thing like a brain aneurysm will do to someone's outlook on life, and no, I do not wish a similar event or occurrence on anyone, only some times, it takes what it takes to wake someone up to what life is about................. Maybe if he chooses to stick around, and share, and read, and experience, and learn that he already belongs when he chooses to,,, Just a hope,,, ;-) Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Get a life | |> Oh, Gerald almost forgot, pleased to meet ya, feel free to share |> your own fantastic glass ideas, we are always willing to hear them. | |D'you really thing we'll ever hear from Gerald again? I think he was |an MS-log-on-bitch-cumudgeonly-log-off-one-shot wonder. He ID'd |himself as being from Microsoft Corporation, so he probably has his |hands full meeting his daily quota of calls. (Ouch! That was |mean-spirited of me, wasn't it?) | |Albert |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 13:53:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:00:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Gnomon Testimonies Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:23:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.92316.0> Precedence: bulk Whoever has failed to follow this thread has surely missed some of the most hysterically humorous and fabulous writing in the history of mankind= ! Even the cats forgive you, Blake.... I am still wiping tears from my eyes= ! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 14:01:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:07:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Get a life Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:15:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199904121807.OAA01432@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > computer software demonstration for Mr. Bill, and is worried about > his reaction if the software does not work perfectly. MS software work perfectly? In what world? Not in this one! Fat, buggy code, overweening arrogance ... it all adds up to MS on top, OS-wise, and Mr. Bill buying yet another thousand companies, but it trickles down to people like the aforementioned MS hacker's attitude, I'm afraid. I wonder if he has any idea how much furor his disdainful comments have evoked. Probably not, since I suspect he shot his wad, so to speak, and won't be back again. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 14:15:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:17:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stress Fractures,,, Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:23:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199904121815.OAA01709@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > once the piece has left our shop or bench, or it > has been around for a few years, that it has perhaps served its > useful visual/artistic life ... Even badly made work will survive its maker. Well-built work should not need repairs/restoration for 150 years. But all work should be well enough thought of by makers to take that into consideration IMHO. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Louis T himself is looking down and roaring with laughter and amazement that what he considered "decoration" (and thus disposable, a la the Las Vegas casinos' use of glass) is being treated with the awe and respect that he never intended. > introduction of the small cracks, even just a few microscopic ones, > that with the effects of thermal heating and cooling (from being in > a window), that the expansion and contraction could place the needed > and required stress's on the glass to make or help those small or > microscopic cracks to enlarge, into the visual detection range. Forget about the effect of expansion and contraction of the glass; it's so small as to be negligible. It has no effect at all. The introduction of microscopic cracks (or subliminal scores, if you will) is an interesting idea that deserves some thought and research. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 14:21:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberbeach.net!dayle From: Dayle To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:26:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.102615.0> References: <<199904121429.KAA27252@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: Celestial Luminosities Precedence: bulk Can we just let it go? I enjoy Sparks' commentaries as much as anyone but I thought someone also said we weren't supposed to get personal. What goes around comes around so let's just stick to using the many times mentioned "delete" button. Just my opinion. ..................Now let's get back to those glass tutu's etc. (never really wondered what was worn underneath them.....oops, I'm getting a visual...gotta go!) Albert Lewis wrote: > > Oh, Gerald almost forgot, pleased to meet ya, feel free to share > > your own fantastic glass ideas, we are always willing to hear them. > > D'you really thing we'll ever hear from Gerald again? I think he was > an MS-log-on-bitch-cumudgeonly-log-off-one-shot wonder. He ID'd > himself as being from Microsoft Corporation, so he probably has his > hands full meeting his daily quota of calls. (Ouch! That was > mean-spirited of me, wasn't it?) > > Albert > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 14:42:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:35:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass saw, yes or no Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:28:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.10287.0> Precedence: bulk I third that emotion. pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 2:29 PM Subject: Re: glass saw, yes or no >> BTW re ring saw. My husband decided I needed a Taurus Ring Saw last >> Oct. It's still sitting in the box and probably will be sent back. >> I haven't had a need for it yet, so if I can't cut a particular cut >> by hand, then it shouldn't be done. > >I'll second *that emotion! >If it can't be cut by hand, it shouldn't be cut. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:02:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:19:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Gerry Belliveaau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:17:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.111755.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Gerry Belliveaau" >Get a life and try to combine all messages by =3D day into one at least. < Gerry, we request people do NOT do this because many of us only read the threads = we are interested in and delete those we are not. If you post everything= on one then we're all forced to read the whole shebang and that takes more time than some of us would like to spend. I even delete all mail from people who refuse= to edit. This is just good list manners. P.S. Are you new to the list... haven't notic= ed any contributions from you before? Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:03:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:19:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Rick Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.11189.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Rick >Well you know what they say about opinions, and thats what makes this group so great, every one gets to express them. < And it's nice to see some newcomers (or lurkers) commenting now and then,= too. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:29:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Rick Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.11187.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Rick >ll I have seen is the poor woman geting beat up on for asking the question.< When Marion comes back to us in a few years, the pros on this list will kindly tell her how to re-design the pieces so she can cut them by hand..= From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:30:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:20:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:35:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.93519.0> Precedence: bulk Is there something in the air today??? or did we all get up on the wrong side of bed??? My best, pj (fluffing her aura) From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:35 PM Subject: Re: Get a life > >> Oh, Gerald almost forgot, pleased to meet ya, feel free to share >> your own fantastic glass ideas, we are always willing to hear them. > >D'you really thing we'll ever hear from Gerald again? I think he was >an MS-log-on-bitch-cumudgeonly-log-off-one-shot wonder. He ID'd >himself as being from Microsoft Corporation, so he probably has his >hands full meeting his daily quota of calls. (Ouch! That was >mean-spirited of me, wasn't it?) > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:37:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Glenna Rand Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Back From Vegas Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.11181.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Glenna Rand >I may never be able to sleep......< Oh, oh... you're in trouble now, gal! Say, did you every present your neighbors = with that lovely window you rebuilt for them? What did they say? Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:54:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:20:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Rick Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.11184.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Rick >Bob, you beat me too it. I would like to hear about real life examples of stress cracking due to saw cuts.< Again, get your hands on the book "Conservation of Stained Glass in America, A Manual for Studios and Caretakers" and look on page 86 for a great exampl= e. And, the other option is to go into serious repair business and fix about 1,00= 0 o' them stress fractures! = Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:58:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: rrk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:17:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.111758.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by rrk >I believe you'll find that any stress fractures were due to improperly cut glass, and not to the actual shape of the glass. < Absolutely not, it's the shape of the glass. If you can get your hands o= n a copy of Julie Sloan's book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in America", there is = a marvelous example on page 86. The caption underneath reads, "Pieces cut with deep inside curves are very likely to break as the window settles." Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 17:46:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Glenna Rand Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Back From Vegas Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.11181.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Glenna Rand >I may never be able to sleep......< Oh, oh... you're in trouble now, gal! Say, did you every present your neighbors = with that lovely window you rebuilt for them? What did they say? Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 17:59:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:20:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Rick Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.11184.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Rick >Bob, you beat me too it. I would like to hear about real life examples of stress cracking due to saw cuts.< Again, get your hands on the book "Conservation of Stained Glass in America, A Manual for Studios and Caretakers" and look on page 86 for a great exampl= e. And, the other option is to go into serious repair business and fix about 1,00= 0 o' them stress fractures! = Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 18:14:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: rrk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:17:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.111758.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by rrk >I believe you'll find that any stress fractures were due to improperly cut glass, and not to the actual shape of the glass. < Absolutely not, it's the shape of the glass. If you can get your hands o= n a copy of Julie Sloan's book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in America", there is = a marvelous example on page 86. The caption underneath reads, "Pieces cut with deep inside curves are very likely to break as the window settles." Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 18:30:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:00:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!belliveau-gerald From: "Gerry Belliveaau" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:52:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.5525.0> Organization: Microsoft Corporation Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE84E3.444EA540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I use the e-mail to read advice on glass subjects and not atbs thats = coming through. If you have a personel message for someone to read use = the reguliar e-mail. Thought this was just for items pertaining to = glass and hoppies. If I spent all my time on the computer coming up with all kinds of = other subjects I would not have time to work on my glass projects.=20 If you think this is rude so be it. Gerry =20 ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE84E3.444EA540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I use the e-mail to read advice on = glass=20 subjects and not atbs thats coming through. If you have a personel = message for=20 someone to read use the reguliar e-mail. Thought this was just for = items=20 pertaining to glass and hoppies.
 If I spent all my time on the = computer=20 coming up with all kinds of other subjects I would not have time to work = on my=20 glass projects. 
If you think this is rude so be = it.
Gerry  
------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE84E3.444EA540-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 18:31:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:35:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:32:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.113226.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" >D'you really thing we'll ever hear from Gerald again? I think he was = an MS-log-on-bitch-cumudgeonly-log-off-one-shot wonder. He ID'd = himself as being from Microsoft Corporation, so he probably has his = hands full meeting his daily quota of calls. (Ouch! That was = mean-spirited of me, wasn't it?) < You're a stinker, shame on you! The guy probably is just constipated or= something.... could be worse.... he could be getting a divorce or something and then telling us to do anatomically impossible things! Best, Dani (in hysterics over this whole thread.... good grief!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 18:31:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:35:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: glass saw, yes or no Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:32:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.113235.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" >I'll second *that emotion! If it can't be cut by hand, it shouldn't be cut. < I third it and am stuffing the ballot box!! Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 18:56:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:11:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Art: High Low and The Simpsons Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:07:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.12753.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Tim & Adriana Atwood" > Did any of you see the new episode of the Simpsons? I don't know when yo= u get the Simpsons where you are, but this episode said it better than I ev= er could. Homer becomes instantly famous for his "Outsider Art". Pokes fun= at just about every form of art there is - has all the artistic pretensions = - snobbish gallery owners - museums - Euro-trash - Andy Warhol - Dada. The= image of Picasso writing nasty cubist letters to the editor was great. < Been there, done that, too old now.... speaking of outsider art, we recently juried an art auction for the Alzheimers Assn. Memories in the Making program here. A good friend of ours administers the program at Alzheimers facilities, man= y artists friends donate their time to conduct the "classes", a frameshop donated t= he framing, and 34 pieces auctioned for over $50,000! Almost $1500 per piece and in = a town where the average sales price of an original piece is about $300. There'= s a really bizarre dynamic going in this scenario.... I haven't quite figured it out= yet. It's not just pure philanthropy either.... Best, Dani Greer (who doesn't watch TV except for Brother Cadfael.) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 18:59:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:22:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Get a life Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:28:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199904122020.QAA04236@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Dani (in hysterics over this whole thread.... good grief!) Yeah, the guy at MS doesn't know what he's missin' Thread's at least as good as tutus and gnomens. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:05:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:19:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:18:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.131811.0> References: <<1999Apr12.92026.0>> Precedence: bulk > Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net > >3) consider the large custom panel market rather than the small gift > market...my experience is that this is where I can make a decent living, > not > in the small gift market. Christie and Dorothy may have a different input= > > on > this, however.< > Remember that I do not make a living out of this. I work full timeand I sell at craft fairs. However, my husband is now able to spend more time on stained glass and has big plans....We are going into more highend things (not just suncatchers), but frankly, I don't have the room to make anything much over 2' by 3' (not that I do that often, anyway.) I do make angels every year and my best selling angel is a simple thing. I am working right now on an angel nightlight...almost have the design... Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:08:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bellsouth.net!mjulson From: Marion Julson To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:50:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.135059.0> References: <<199904121321_MC2-7182-FAEE@compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk Thank you for your kind reply. And thank you to the rest of you for your replies also. I asked for your input as it seems that I too have a husband who thinks that I should have a saw which will make my life in stained glass easier :) I worked up a pattern which includes leaves similar to chrysanthemum leaves which I felt could not be done by hand but I could try to do it with a saw. I also thought it would be easier to cut long curved pieces on a saw than doing it by hand. I don't know if I've read too much of the literature put out by the companies and I expect it to cut, grind and practically foil for me too but except for the woman who told me that the motor ceased on her and the company wouldn't do anything, I felt that the ring would be great. I was able to try out two band saws at a local shop but they had no ring saw for me to try. I'll have to try elsewhere. Thanks again. Marion Christie A. Wood wrote: > Hi there. Welcome to the land of bungi. > > I own a Taurus II Ring Saw, and purchased it after carefully > considering pros & cons of ring saw versus band saw. > I've been using my Taurus II for about 8 months now. I did > have to replace the blade, after it broke due to too much > pressure being applied. But I've never had any trouble > with the motor or any mechanisms, and I've certainly never > had any problems with the company. In fact, their instructions > on replacing the blade are quite straight-forward. > > The reasons why I chose the ring saw over the band saw > are: > > - able to cut in any direction > - nice work surface area > - able to cut most materials, not just glass > > Christie A. Wood > Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, > P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 > http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:16:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Albert Lewis" Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:04:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.8436.0> Precedence: bulk >>I wonder if he has any idea how much furor his disdainful comments have evoked. Probably not, since I suspect he shot his wad, so to speak, and won't be back again.<< Albert<< Look at it this way Albert: Spark's friends are coming out of the wood work. If I were Sparks I would consider a repost every time I needed cheering up. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:25:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:40:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: atwoods@aisl.bc.ca, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Art: High Low and The Simpsons Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:30:15 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990412173015.0069db70@scci.net> References: <<1999Apr12.32610.0>> Precedence: bulk At 10:26 AM 4/12/99 -0700, you wrote: >Did any of you see the new episode of the Simpsons? Oh that was a really good one! I feel much better knowing that I'm not the only one watching the Simpsons! And to that Gerry person - Don't have a cow man! Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:26:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:42:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, Walter) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Giraffe JOOOSSS Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:50:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.13501.0> Organization: The Glass Safari Precedence: bulk Hi