From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 04:09:02 1999
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Infection Cleared Up
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:54:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.1549.0>
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Thanks for the instructions on how to get rid of the Happy99 virus. I have 
e-mail myself and no attachment showed up. I think I got it from someone in 
the group so every on should follow the instructions at:

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3652/SKA.HTM

I think I only infected 2 other people besides bungi and I have warned 
them. My apologies if I am the one to have caused the group this trouble. I 
promise to never double click on another .exe file, EVER.

Linda Campbell
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 07:36:53 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: NG-advice for Northerners
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 08:57:52 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.25752.0>
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I usually dont pass these on, as they really make us look bad...but this
one really made me laugh because there is so much truth to it! 

Tulsa Suzanne (raised in Georgia)

> ADVICE FOR NORTHERNERS MOVING SOUTH
> 
> > 1. Save all manner of bacon grease.  You will be instructed later how
to
> > use it.
> > 
> > 2. If you forget a Southerner's name, refer to him (or her) as "Bubba".
> >    You have a 75% chance of being right.
> > 
> > 3. Just because you can drive on snow and ice does not mean we 
> >can't stay home the two days of the year it snows.
> > 
> > 4. If you do run your car into a ditch, don't panic.  Four men in the
> > cab of a four wheel drive with a tow chain will be along shortly.
> > Don't try to help them.  Just stay out of their way.  This is what
> > they live for.
> >
> > 5. Don't be surprised to find movie rentals and bait in the same store.
> > 
> > 6. If it can't be fried in bacon grease, it ain't worth cooking, let
> > alone eating.
> > 
> > 7. Remember:  "Y'all" is singular.  "All y'all" is plural.  "All
> > y'all's" is plural possessive
> >     .
> > 8. There is nothing sillier than a Northerner imitating a southern
> > accent.
> > 
> > 9. Get used to hearing, "Y'all ain't from around here, are you?"
> > 
> > 10. People walk slower here.
> > 
> > 11. Don't be worried that you don't understand anyone.  They don't
> >       understand you either.
> > 
> > 12. The proper pronunciation you learned in school is no longer proper.
> > 
> > 13. If attending a funeral in the South, remember, we stay until the
> > last shovel of dirt is thrown on and the tent is torn down      .
> > 
> > 14. If you hear a Southerner exclaim, "Hey, y'all, watch this!"  stay
> > out of his way.  These are likely the last words he will ever say.
> > 
> > 15. Most Southerners do not use turn signals, and they ignore those who
> > do.  In fact, if you see a signal blinking on a car with a southern
> > license plate, you may rest assured that it was on when the car
> > was  purchased.
> 
> > 16. The winter wardrobe you always brought out in September can wait
> >       November.
> > 
> > 17. If there is the prediction of the slightest chance of even the most
> > minuscule accumulation of snow, your presence is required at the
> > local grocery store.  It doesn't matter if you need anything from the
> > store, it's just something you're supposed to do
> > 
> > 18. Florida is not considered a southern state.  There are far more
> > Yankees than Southerners living there.
> > 
> > 19. As you are cursing the person driving 15 mph in a 55 mph zone,
> > directly  in the middle of the road, remember, many folks learned to
> drive on
> > a  model of vehicle known as John Deere, and this is the proper speed
> >and lane position for the vehicle.
> > 
> > 20. You can ask a Southerner for directions, but unless you already
know
> > the positions of key hills, trees and rocks, you're better off trying
to
> find
> > it yourself.
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 07:56:53 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Stained Glass - new stuff
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 09:52:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.4524.0>
References: <<36B55556.1E24@ix.netcom.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne wrote:
> 
> Feeling a bit mind blown here.
> 
> What I want to know....
> How did you foil *that* leaf?  (the one your finger points to)
> Smaller than a grain of rice.  Suddenly *my* challenge projects
> are pre pre school.
> 
> Sky city's dome is really beautiful.
> 
> Tulsa Suzanne


very carefully. 



i used 5/32" foil, and squeezed it down with the end of my fid. then
carefully pressed it againt a piece of glass to flatten it out. then i
had to trim the foil slightly with a razor blade. the trickest part was
grinding the thing. in which i used the 1/4" bit, and carefully ground
it. 

there is around 15 leaves i had to do, slightly larger then that one.
and i still have to make the lower section of the tree.

btw the glass i used was kokomo granite. i liked the texture and it
should be the right scale when it sparkles, when the lights are on. of
course that did'nt make it any easier to break. 


the dome is done, just many more to go. wait until you see one of the
floors it's going to have...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 08:09:09 1999
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X-Path: one.net!kleeman
From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: website
Date: Mon Feb  1 07:53:47 1999
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.53147.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone
well, i finally got my online catalog up and running
http://www.taylordExpressions.com

the online catalog has about 1200 items, to be a total of about 2000 items
online.  the printed catalog will be out in about two weeks (typing as fast
as i can on it) it will have about 7000item in it.

anyone contacting me in the next two week with their snail mail address will
receive 25% off the catalog, forever.  not a one time discount, but a
forever discount.

if you don't see what you want online, call or e-mail me kleeman@one.net for
availability.

i am trying to make it easy for everyone to order everything they need from
one place.  this also means one shipping charge. and no minimum order
required.

please let me know any comments (good and bad) you have pertaining to the
site.  i have an 888 number, so if you have any questions, feel free to
call.  please check hours of operation before calling.

thank you for your time
debbie taylor
kleeman@one.net
http://www.taylordExpressions.com


----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 09:11:14 1999
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X-Path: soltec.net!tamis
From: "Tami Siddens" <tamis@soltec.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Bob's new baby pictures
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:10:39 -0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.101039.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE4DCB.1E947C20
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

What a great warm, fuzzy to start a grey Monday morning.  Thanks for =
sharing.   Tami

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE4DCB.1E947C20
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What a great warm, fuzzy to start a =
grey Monday=20
morning.&nbsp; Thanks for sharing.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Tami</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE4DCB.1E947C20--

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 11:15:23 1999
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X-Path: aries17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg
From: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: nGlass link
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:30:31 -0500
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Hi Everybody,


Some people have reported problems with the URL I posted yesterday.

Please, try the following one instead:


http://aries17.uwaterloo.ca/newglass/index.html


Happy glassing!




--
Daniel M. German
http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca

 
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 11:36:43 1999
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X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj
From: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
To: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Hand foiling
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:09:10 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.9910.0>
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On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, M. Savad wrote:
<SNIP>
> 
> just wondering, is there a reason why you've switched to the correct
> method?
> 
> ---Mike Savad

I've been reading through the archive and came across many discussions
concerning use of 'tools' and thought it would be helpful to learn how to
foil without assistance of tools.

I foiled several large pieces over the weekend and found it takes longer.
I held the foil in my right hand and the glass in my left.  I tried
sighting down the glass and rolling the glass.  With more practice I hope
to get the hang of it.  

Thanks to everyone who responded with all the helpful techniques.

Jim

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 13:24:27 1999
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: website
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:00:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.10023.0>
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Are we allowed to advertise our business through bungi?

Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: daver!one.net!kleeman <daver!one.net!kleeman>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:23 AM
Subject: website


>Hi everyone
>well, i finally got my online catalog up and running
>http://www.taylordExpressions.com
>
>the online catalog has about 1200 items, to be a total of about 2000 items
>online.  the printed catalog will be out in about two weeks (typing as fast
>as i can on it) it will have about 7000item in it.
>
>anyone contacting me in the next two week with their snail mail address
will
>receive 25% off the catalog, forever.  not a one time discount, but a
>forever discount.
>
>if you don't see what you want online, call or e-mail me kleeman@one.net
for
>availability.
>
>i am trying to make it easy for everyone to order everything they need from
>one place.  this also means one shipping charge. and no minimum order
>required.
>
>please let me know any comments (good and bad) you have pertaining to the
>site.  i have an 888 number, so if you have any questions, feel free to
>call.  please check hours of operation before calling.
>
>thank you for your time
>debbie taylor
>kleeman@one.net
>http://www.taylordExpressions.com
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 13:39:21 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875
From: "Evelyn C Mason" <ABBIE23875@prodigy.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Suzanne:Southern born and southern bred!
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:01:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.10111.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey Suzanne, so much of what you sent sounds so true.....where on earth did
they find so much out about us....Ya'll take care now , Abbie Mason in
VIRGINIA [That is south of the Mason -Dixon line, I think] Wonder if that
fella is any kin? [just kidding]

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 14:19:22 1999
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X-Path: DEAN.MED.UFL.EDU!cmccall
From: "Candice McCall" <cmccall@DEAN.MED.UFL.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Infection Cleared Up
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:24:48 EST5EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: Dean's Office, College of Medicine
Precedence: bulk

Re: the happy99.exe virus

My PC support person spent the morning here 
cleaning this virus off my hard drive. I thought I
had removed it but when I saw the email concerning
the SKA Virus website, I realized I still had it
under c:\windows\system\ska.dll and ska.exe.

Check your hard drive out. McAfee VirusScan 
didn't catch it...

Candice
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 15:21:40 1999
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: My New Baby
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 17:21:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.122155.0>
References: <<1999Jan31.152834.0>>
Precedence: bulk

AWW, what a cute baby (as an almost 1st time grandmother, I'm starting to
go AWW over all babies!  I think I'm going to like this grandma stuff.)
Dorothy (with no attempt to get on topic)

Bob E Duchesneau wrote:

> >>!).   For those of you that have asked me for pics, we uploaded
> the
> >first polaroids onto Owen's website at http://www.steelsphere.com/baby
> <<
>
> Don't miss this one!
>
> Bob
>
> Ps: The butterfly thing would look good in stained glass.
>
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 15:35:58 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Fw: website
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 17:23:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.122336.0>
References: <<1999Feb1.10023.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Granny And PawPaw wrote:
> 
> Are we allowed to advertise our business through bungi?
> 
> Arnold
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: daver!one.net!kleeman <daver!one.net!kleeman>
> To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:23 AM
> Subject: website
> 
> >Hi everyone
> >well, i finally got my online catalog up and running
> >http://www.taylordExpressions.com
> >
> >the online catalog has about 1200 items, to be a total of about 2000 items
> >online.  the printed catalog will be out in about two weeks (typing as fast
> >as i can on it) it will have about 7000item in it.
> >
> >anyone contacting me in the next two week with their snail mail address
> will
> >receive 25% off the catalog, forever.  not a one time discount, but a
> >forever discount.
> >
> >if you don't see what you want online, call or e-mail me kleeman@one.net
> for
> >availability.
> >
> >i am trying to make it easy for everyone to order everything they need from
> >one place.  this also means one shipping charge. and no minimum order
> >required.
> >
> >please let me know any comments (good and bad) you have pertaining to the
> >site.  i have an 888 number, so if you have any questions, feel free to
> >call.  please check hours of operation before calling.
> >
> >thank you for your time
> >debbie taylor
> >kleeman@one.net
> >http://www.taylordExpressions.com
> >
> >
> >----


advertise no, mentioning updates, and services, i think are ok.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 16:01:37 1999
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:27:22 -0800
Message-ID: <199902012227.OAA17544@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Okay, so I'm at the point where I need to sharpen up my glass delivery
methods some, and i'd like to get some feedback from the group:

How do you support your glass during transport to installation sites:  If
the answer is glass racks, how long are they (If I put the tailgate on my
pickup down, I have 7' in the box of my truck.  I have a feeling that if I
don't make them 8' long and let it hang over a bit, I'll be sorry somewhere
down the road.  Input?  What angle should I build the racks for the glass to
rest at.  I know it has to be close to vertical, but I notice the commercial
guys that have racks on the sides of their vans seem to have a slight angle.
Do we need that angle for stained glass too?

Also when you're doing delivery of completed windows, how do you protect
them from 1) rain...do you wrap in plastic? 2) stray stones from transport
trucks...do you add a layer of plywood to cover and protect the windows? 3)
do you stack windows on top of each other for delivery what (if anything) do
you place between them for protection...plywood, a blanket, cardboard, nothing?

Thanks so much.  This is one I haven't seen discussed on bungi before.

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
http://come.to/The_E-Tour

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 16:23:22 1999
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X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes
From: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@iconn.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Back on line
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 17:39:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.123925.0>
Organization: QM Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Hi Folks,

Do to some technical problems with my Internet carrier I was off line
today and just found it out at 5:30 PM. Please keep me on your list.


Thank you,

Tim Byrnes
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 16:42:03 1999
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X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve
From: Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Infection Cleared Up
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 15:14:27 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990201151427.00929450@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

At 01:24 PM 2/1/99 EST5EDT, Candice McCall wrote:
>Re: the happy99.exe virus
>
>{clip}
>
>Check your hard drive out. McAfee VirusScan 
>didn't catch it...
>
>Candice

Judging from its sporadic reappearance, several bungi people have caught
this virus.  Norton Anti-Virus can detect and remove it automatically if
your virus database is up to date.  Use the LiveUpdate program to get a
free database update.  NAV will also intercept the virus on the way in via
new e-mail messages and prevent the file from being stored.
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 17:31:55 1999
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: website
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:13:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.141311.0>
Precedence: bulk

I run a one person stained glass retail store.  I wasn't knocking the ad,
just surprised that it was permitted.  Several others, like "Store Finder"
do not permit it.  I teach, give demos at 2 universities, and am retired
from industry.  Really not interested in doing more than I am...It would cut
into my play time, so no web or effort to do mail-order business.  I'd go
after it if I wasn't so lazy....

Thanks for listening

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Granny And PawPaw <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 6:27 PM
Subject: Fw: website


>Did you get a new website, Arnold??
>Tell us what the URL is!  Will stop
>by and see whatcha got!
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer
>Greer Gallery & Studios
>www.igga.org/greer/
>
>

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 17:55:06 1999
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:36:17 -0800 (PST)
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Fw: website
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:38:12 -0800
Message-ID: <199902012238.OAA21052@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

>Are we allowed to advertise our business through bungi?
>
>Arnold

Arnold, thank you for asking in advance.  I'm not sure if Glenna has an
actual policy, but I think it's generally frowned upon beyond referring
someone to a web site where they can find the info.

C.


Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
http://come.to/The_E-Tour

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 18:09:49 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:48:51 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.84851.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>How do you support your glass during transport to installation sites:  If
the answer is glass racks, << Big snip>>

I have a double sided glass rack that is 4' long and 32" high for 98% of my
glass transportation needs. The sides are inclined 10 degrees from the
verticle. I have been known to transport over 50 sheets of glass and several
windows with this rack. Use nylon cynch straps at least two per side. Do not
place anything between the glass or panels and have no problems. Panels up
to seven feet long, or so, transport well. Have layed a long board on the
base for longer panels.

I do not cover my panels for two reasons:
1. Rain is not a big thing in San Diego County, and
2. I was once flagged down by a fellow motorest and given an order.

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 18:35:02 1999
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X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage
From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "Steve Wernecke" <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>,
Subject: Re: Infection Cleared Up
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:52:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.95243.0>
Precedence: bulk

Well I must have picked it up too.    We have Norton anti Virus but it must
not be the latest one because it didn't detect it.     I followed the
directions on the post from Linda Campbell and it looks like it is cleared
up now.  At least I hope so.

Cheryl
The Glass Parrott
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Infection Cleared Up


>At 01:24 PM 2/1/99 EST5EDT, Candice McCall wrote:
>>Re: the happy99.exe virus
>>
>>{clip}
>>
>>Check your hard drive out. McAfee VirusScan
>>didn't catch it...
>>
>>Candice
>
>Judging from its sporadic reappearance, several bungi people have caught
>this virus.  Norton Anti-Virus can detect and remove it automatically if
>your virus database is up to date.  Use the LiveUpdate program to get a
>free database update.  NAV will also intercept the virus on the way in via
>new e-mail messages and prevent the file from being stored.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 20:25:41 1999
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X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686
From: L Nelson <t6686@netusa1.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: (no subject)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:51:35 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.145135.0>
Precedence: bulk

Is tis only etching glass or so you all so do stepping stones and or
stained glass??
Laura

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 20:55:36 1999
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From: L Nelson <t6686@netusa1.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: subscribe
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:09:13 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.15913.0>
Precedence: bulk



----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 21:58:34 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: What goes on?
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:27:20 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.172720.0>
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> 
> Is tis only etching glass or so you all so do stepping stones and or
> stained glass??
> Laura
> 


Hi Laura!  Boy, have you lucked out!
There is a little bit of everything done in bungi land.
Welcome, sit back relax, tell us about yourself, and get ready.
You will be amazed at how much that is offered to us here.

Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am
going to learn to do lead work soon! ;o)  Waiting for this really cool
English chick to visit the USA...I bet you hear about her soon too.

Tulsa Suzanne
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 22:28:05 1999
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: New Baby
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:03:25 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.18325.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey Jenna, I saw a butterfly, and other stuff ..... but no Tutu. How will he
ever follow in my footsteps?
Seems like there are about 700 giddy aunts and uncles here.

Wonderful news and pictures and baby and ....... thanks
Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 22:57:48 1999
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "L Nelson" <t6686@netusa1.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Biography
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:23:24 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.182324.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Laura and welcome to the Mad Hatter's Ball.

We would really like to get to know you. Each Saturday I post biographies
(bios) from members of our group.
This is a great way of allowing us getting to know you. Nothing elaborate,
just things like where your from, kids (we are all so proud .... we are all
new uncles and aunts), how you got started in Stained Glass, significant
other (notice the political correctness .... it won't last long here), etc.
Email it to me and I'll post it. If you like I can email you the biographies
of everyone who has submitted one.

Watch out for the others you and I are the only sane ones here (and I have
my doubts about you).

Looking forward to receiving your bio.

Got to go now ..... I'm late..... I'm late ..... for a very important date.
No time to say hello ..... goodbye, I'm late, I'm late .... I'm late.


-----Original Message-----
From: L Nelson <t6686@netusa1.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 10:43 PM
Subject: (no subject)


>Is tis only etching glass or so you all so do stepping stones and or
>stained glass??
>Laura
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 23:27:45 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Pat Kelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: New Baby
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 00:50:54 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.185054.0>
References: <<1999Feb1.18325.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> ..... but no Tutu. How will he
> ever follow in my footsteps?


Aren't those called "Toe-steps", Patrick?

Tulsa Suzanne
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  1 23:57:38 1999
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:22:21 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: cros.net!soraya
From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Biography
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:22:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.212254.0>
Precedence: bulk

Okay  Mr. Tutu,

I  have a bio all wrote up...but to where do I send it......this list works
differently than any other the others I am on....and  I would hate to make a
mistake and encounter your  glass wrath?

Take Care,
Soraya

~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Soraya may be reached at...
soraya@cros.net
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Soraya's web site is currently undergoing reconstruction�
"The Witches' Thicket"  may be found at...
http://www.cros.net/soraya
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
"For Passionate People These Are Desperate Times,
Desperate Measures Call For Passionate Crimes"
--Michael Stanley


----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 00:10:29 1999
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X-Path: cros.net!soraya
From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Looking for artist info
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:31:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.213154.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE4E54.32D398E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Bungians,

While in the library the other week I found an interesting book  =
"Stained Glass -  Music for the Eye" by Hil, Hil and Halberstadt. =20

On the cover (and an inside plate) is this most amazing piece of work =
instilled "Druidic Tree" .  It shows a large Oak tree with the various =
seasons depicted in its branches and a lunar month calendar circling the =
top 2/3.  The whole piece being round in shape.

Now, silly me did not write down the artists name (Dan Something =
maybe???).  And when I went back to the library the book is checked out. =
   I am hoping someone may be familiar with this work and help me locate =
the artists name, possibly more pieces by him and/or patterns for =
purchase. =20

Thank you for any help in advance.
Take Care,
Soraya

~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Soraya may be reached at...
soraya@cros.net
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
"The Witches' Thicket"  may be found at...
http://www.cros.net/soraya
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
"For Passionate People These Are Desperate Times,
Desperate Measures Call For Passionate Crimes"
--Michael Stanley


------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE4E54.32D398E0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Dear Bungians,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>While in the library the other week =
I found an=20
interesting book&nbsp; &quot;Stained Glass -&nbsp; Music for the =
Eye&quot; by=20
Hil, Hil and Halberstadt.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>On the cover (and an inside plate) is this most =
amazing piece=20
of work instilled &quot;Druidic Tree&quot; .&nbsp; It shows a large Oak =
tree=20
with the various seasons depicted in its branches and a lunar month =
calendar=20
circling the top 2/3.&nbsp; The whole piece being round in =
shape.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Now, silly me did not write down the artists name =
(Dan=20
Something maybe???).&nbsp; And when I went back to the library the book =
is=20
checked out.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am hoping someone may be familiar with =
this=20
work and help me locate the artists name, possibly more pieces by him =
and/or=20
patterns for purchase.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thank you for any help in advance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Take Care,<BR>Soraya</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~<BR>Soraya=20
may be reached at...<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:soraya@cros.net">soraya@cros.net</A><BR>~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^=
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~<BR>&quot;The=20
Witches' Thicket&quot;&nbsp; may be found at...<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cros.net/soraya">http://www.cros.net/soraya</A><BR>~^~=
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~<BR>&quot;For=20
Passionate People These Are Desperate Times,<BR>Desperate Measures Call =
For=20
Passionate Crimes&quot;<BR>--Michael =
Stanley<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE4E54.32D398E0--


----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 00:57:57 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Soraya <soraya@cros.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Biography
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 02:21:33 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb1.202133.0>
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> 
> Okay  Mr. Tutu,
> 
> I  have a bio all wrote up...but to where do I send it......this list works
> differently than any other the others I am on....and  I would hate to make a
> mistake and encounter your  glass wrath?
> 
> Take Care,
> Soraya


You fit right in, girlfriend! ;o)  Anxious to read all about you!

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 02:31:37 1999
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Subject: Re: website
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:46:02 EST
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Hi Deb,
Congrats on your new website!!!  Looks like you have a ton of work ahead of
you!!! (with all you are planning to list on site!)  Good Luck!   Lenore
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Subject: Re: NG/baby pictures
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:15:54 EST
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Jenna,
What a beautiful baby!!!  No conehead or mushface here!!!  With a conehead you
can always keep the little hat on the head, but with a mushface, there is
nothing to hide it except for a bag over the head (like they probably prepared
you for in birthing classes).  <BL> !!!  So happy for you and your husband.
Of course, let's not forget the proud grandfather who gave me the go-ahead to
inform all of bungiland about its newest member!
Lenore
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Subject: Re: What goes on?
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:36:24 EST
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In a message dated 2/2/99 1:00:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:

> Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am
>  going to learn to do lead work soon

Suzanne de Tulsa,

I can't wait till you start working in lead, your enthusiasm is so contagious.
Personally love lead.  The lines are so precise compared to foil.  I really
want to do something with foil and lead in the same project, anyone have an
idea?  Thanks,

IA  
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Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:44:38 EST
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In a message dated 2/1/99 10:38:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:

>  1. Save all manner of bacon grease.  You will be instructed later how
>  to
>  > > use it.
 
Suzanne de Tulsa,

Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the paper
towels????  True northerner here, can ya tell??  

Take care.

IA
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 05:42:29 1999
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Smiles!
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:45:54 -0500
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Patrick you brighten my morning with smiles.....but a Tutu?

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Subject: Re: Looking for artist info
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:55:04 -0500
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Dan Fenton, maybe?
Dee


>On the cover (and an inside plate) is this most amazing piece of work =
>instilled "Druidic Tree" . 
>Now, silly me did not write down the artists name (Dan Something =
>maybe???).  
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 06:48:49 1999
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Subject: Re: What goes on?
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:01:33 -0600
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CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 2/2/99 1:00:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:
> 
> > Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am
> >  going to learn to do lead work soon
> 
> Suzanne de Tulsa,
> 
> I can't wait till you start working in lead, your enthusiasm is so contagious.
> Personally love lead.  
***************The lines are so precise compared to foil****************
I really
> want to do something with foil and lead in the same project, anyone >have an idea?  Thanks,
> 
> IA

The above emphasis is mine......

PatricIA
Cant tell you how I hate to hear that! ;o)
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 06:58:35 1999
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Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:02:43 -0600
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> Suzanne de Tulsa,
> 
> Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the paper
> towels????  True northerner here, can ya tell??  
> 
> Take care.
> 
> IA
> 

I think I am gonna be ill...

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 07:21:03 1999
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Subject: NG a hankerin'
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:05:04 -0600
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Ok...all this talk has me suddenly wanting to go buy some bacon.
Moving to California in the early '70's taught me to be heart
smart...but, I may have to go back to the grocery store.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 07:41:36 1999
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Subject: Re: Looking for artist info
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 09:10:35 -0600
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Yep...Dan Fenton it is...

See the "Druid Oak Tree" at the Dan Fenton Studio website
http://www.cyberthings.com/fenton/

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 07:58:52 1999
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Subject: Re: lead+foil
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:20:26 -0500
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I've done projects with foil florals in the center, using lead for the
framing geometric design.  I thought the thin lead was very attractive and
in proportion to the thin copper foil lines in the 'organic' center
section.  Those pieces sold well, so I guess they looked ok to others as well!
Dee 



 I really
>want to do something with foil and lead in the same project, anyone have an
>idea? 
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 08:27:22 1999
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Subject: website apology-not glass
Date: Tue Feb  2 07:48:12 1999
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hi guys
i am sorry if i offended anyone yesterday with the announcement of my
website.  i have worked very hard over the last six weeks to get the website
and catalog up and running.  a lot of you helped me with this, and i am very
grateful.  i would also like to thank anyone who wished me well on my new
venture.

as i said, i did not mean to offend anyone.  i was very excited, and knowing
other people post their web sites, i just announced mine.  i understand it
is not finished glass product, it is supplies--i sell something different
then the rest of you.

please accept my apology glenna, i did not mean to do anything wrong, just
wanted to share my excitement with my friends.

debbie taylor
kleeman@one.net
http://www.taylordExpression.com
1-888-488-9616

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 08:49:11 1999
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:02:04 -0500
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A true Southerner doesn't microwave bacon.  It's not any good unless you fry
it and really soak it in it's own grease.  ;)

Jerri
from Georgia


P.S. Patrick,  my 5 yr. old will argue with you.  It really goes, "I'm late.
I'm late.  I'm being fortune tate."  I haven't quite figured out what that
means, but I'm corrected every time I say "for a very important date."




>
>>  1. Save all manner of bacon grease.  You will be instructed later how
>>  to
>>  > > use it.
>
>Suzanne de Tulsa,
>
>Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the
paper
>towels????  True northerner here, can ya tell??
>
>Take care.
>
>IA

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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: lead+foil
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:50:02 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.4502.0>
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> I've done projects with foil florals in the center, using lead for the
> framing geometric design.  I thought the thin lead was very attractive and
> in proportion to the thin copper foil lines in the 'organic' center
> section.  Those pieces sold well, so I guess they looked ok to others as well!
> Dee 
> 
> 
I really love copperfoil, and honestly cant imagine doing lead only.  I
want to learn to do it, but think I will incorporate both
together mostly. I just need to learn how.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 10:32:21 1999
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Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:47:10 -0500
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Message text written by "Bob E Duchesneau"
>I do not cover my panels for two reasons:
1. Rain is not a big thing in San Diego County, and
2. I was once flagged down by a fellow motorest and given an order.<

Oh, Bob!  I had to re-read reason #2 in order to fully appreciate it!
Wonderful!

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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Subject: what is bungi? by L Nelson
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:47:13 -0500
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Message text written by L Nelson
>Is tis only etching glass or so you all so do stepping stones and or
stained glass??<

Hi Laura.  We on bungi do all sorts of work with glass.  Etched,
sand-blasted, mosaic'ed, copper-foil, lead, hot glass, flameworked,
slumped, drapped, fused, jewelry, bead-making, restoration, etc...
You name it, and probably someone on this list does it.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 11:00:38 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:09:03 EST
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In a message dated 2/1/99 9:11:48 PM, BOBDU@prodigy.net wrote:

>I do not cover my panels for two reasons:
> [...] 2. I was once flagged down by a fellow motorest and given an order.

<LOL> I got the biggest kick out of this...... It's another of those things
most people don't think about: where do stained glass windows come from,
anyway? How do they get where they're going? etc. etc. Maybe they'd like to
have one, one of these days when they get around to it. Then one day they see
one riding down the street, or they walk into a shop and se one being made,
and it just grabs 'em.

Exposure to the process itself - seeing the artist/artisan at work, even
seeing a finished product going down the road on the way to be installed - has
to be one of the greatest sales tools of all!

The same thing goes for smaller pieces too. I'm sure I'm not the only one
who's had things "bought out from under me" as I was working on them!


Sparks
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: NG-about that bacon grease......
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:08:53 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.18853.0>
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IA's enquiring mind wants to know:

>Suzanne de Tulsa,
>
>Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the
paper
>towels????  True northerner here, can ya tell??  

Hell, no! Y' cain't cook bacon in no newfangled gadget like that! Y'all gotta
use a big ol' cast-arn skillet!


Sparks		Born in California but with a grammaw an' grampaw from
			Arkinsaw, who larned me real good that the basic food groups
			are hambeans, Wonder bread, and milk gravy made with
			that good ol' bacon grease
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From: Ray <103462.2164@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:daver!one.net!kleeman" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: website apology-not glass
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:13:05 -0500
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Message text written by INTERNET:daver!one.net!kleeman
>please accept my apology glenna, i did not mean to do anything wrong, ju=
st
wanted to share my excitement with my friends.
<

No need to apologize. All accomplishments are worth noting.


Love,
Ray     CSG
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 11:57:24 1999
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From: GlassLites@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Re: cutting zinc
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:13:25 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.181325.0>
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In a message dated 1/30/99, 5:55:22 PM, Dale Bentley  writes:
<<The cutting wheels are fragile, but inexpensive.  One wheel if careful makes
many cuts (dozen or so).  I also use it to get rid of the sharp edges after
cutting.  Remember to wear eye protection.

Does anyone else cut zinc this way?

Dale>>

Absolutely!

I could not live without my little "mighty moto". It was given to me when I
was in college some mumble..mumble... years ago. It's an antique now. But it
can do anything!

Cheryl Lowe
Glass Lites Studio
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 11:57:48 1999
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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 12:38:57 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.173857.0>
References: <<1999Feb2.124438.0>>
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Speaking of Northerners...I am one, true blue, born and bred New Yorker,
the worst kind of Northerner I know.  So we have had a tough winter.  Two
weeks ago we had tons of snow then rain, which led to melting and
flooding in my basement.  I had to take apart my stained glass area of
the basement to suck up the water.  Well a few days ago I finally put it
all back together and got back to glass work.  Well here we go again, we
had an ice storm last night (some benefits I got a snow day today being a
teacher), but I'm back to sucking up water again right under my glass
tables.  (By the way I'm sucking with a shop vac which I bought after the
last storm).  Actually I'm glad I had to buy the shop vac since I am now
using it to clean the glass shards out of my Morton grid and the water
and guk out of my grinder.
So back to the basement for me (and I planned on doing glass today).  Gee
do you think I'd have a problem soldering in a puddle of water?

Enjoying being a Northerner (NOT)

Caren

___________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 12:11:31 1999
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick
Date: Tue Feb  2 11:10:30 1999
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------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4EDE.19908D04
Content-Type: text/plain

Jerri

Comparing Patrick to a 5 yr. old? 
Isn't that being unfair to Patrick?

Vic M. 
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com 

PS I Have it on good authority that both southern and northern bachelors
use the same recipe for bacon (and everything else):
Microwave till hot.

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Jerri [mailto:pigznpawz@mindspring.com]
		Sent:	Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:02 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick

		A true Southerner doesn't microwave bacon.  It's not any
good unless you fry
		it and really soak it in it's own grease.  ;)

		Jerri
		from Georgia


		P.S. Patrick,  my 5 yr. old will argue with you.  It
really goes, "I'm late.
		I'm late.  I'm being fortune tate."  I haven't quite
figured out what that
		means, but I'm corrected every time I say "for a very
important date."




		>
		>>  1. Save all manner of bacon grease.  You will be
instructed later how
		>>  to
		>>  > > use it.
		>
		>Suzanne de Tulsa,
		>
		>Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the
grease out of the
		paper
		>towels????  True northerner here, can ya tell??
		>
		>Take care.
		>
		>IA

		----
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------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4EDE.19908D04
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.1960.3">
<TITLE>RE: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Jerri</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Comparing Patrick to a 5 yr. old? =
</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Isn't that being unfair to =
Patrick?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">vmodiano@ctronsoft.com </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">PS I Have it on good authority that =
both southern and northern bachelors use the same recipe for bacon (and =
everything else):</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Microwave till hot.</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Jerri [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:pigznpawz@mindspring.com" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">mailto:pigznpawz@mindspring.com</A>]</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:02 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">NG--Southerners, oh and you too, =
Patrick</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">A true Southerner doesn't microwave =
bacon.&nbsp; It's not any good unless you fry</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">it and really soak it in it's own =
grease.&nbsp; ;)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Jerri</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">from Georgia</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">P.S. Patrick,&nbsp; my 5 yr. old will =
argue with you.&nbsp; It really goes, &quot;I'm late.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I'm late.&nbsp; I'm being fortune =
tate.&quot;&nbsp; I haven't quite figured out what that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">means, but I'm corrected every time I =
say &quot;for a very important date.&quot;</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;&gt;&nbsp; 1. Save all manner of =
bacon grease.&nbsp; You will be instructed later how</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;&gt;&nbsp; to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; use =
it.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;Suzanne de Tulsa,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;Ummm, after you microwave the =
bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">paper</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;towels????&nbsp; True northerner =
here, can ya tell??</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;Take care.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;IA</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For subscription changes, please mail =
to: glass-request@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To send to the =
list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: =
glass@bungi.com</FONT>
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HREF=3D"http://www.bungi.com/glass" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></FONT>
</P>
</UL></UL>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 12:29:03 1999
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:21:42 -0800
Message-ID: <199902021921.LAA13722@oceanus.island.net>
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>2. I was once flagged down by a fellow motorest and given an order.

Hey Bob...first time I read that I read ticket instead of order...thought
maybe it was illegal in Calif to leave your glass exposed :) (thinking of
Patrick and his tutu here).  So if you leave the glass uncovered it's like a
rolling billboard!!

In all seriousness though, I'm wondering how far you transport glass and at
what speed?  

Many of my deliveries require highway speed travel for 4 hours...I tend to
go through a new windshield every couple of years thanks to flying rocks
kicked up by other motorists.  

Are your deliveries similar?  And you've never had a flying rock problem?

What about when your truck is unattended?  Do you have concerns about
vandalism?  For me, I can see a double edged sword here...waiting hours in a
parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to
orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism during
the 2 hour ferry ride? 

Guess I'd like to hear more about your delivery trips...how long are they?

C.  

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
http://come.to/The_E-Tour

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 12:53:02 1999
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: website
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:54:38 -0500
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Debbie you didn't offend me...I just asked the question because advertising
is not permitted on other glass chats...Store Finder, for example.  More
power to you.  I hope that you become very successful...honest.  I have no
axe to grind....Guess that I opened a real can of worms by asking the
question.....Sorry about that

Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: Debbie Taylor <kleeman@one.net>
To: Granny And PawPaw <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: website


>arnold
>i am sorry if i offended you
>
>i have worked day and night for 6 weeks getting this together--a lot of the
>bungi group helped me out--when i got the website up and running i was just
>really excited
>
>did not mean to break any rules--just a little excited
>
>debbie
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Granny And PawPaw <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
>To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 4:35 PM
>Subject: Fw: website
>
>
>>Are we allowed to advertise our business through bungi?
>>
>>Arnold
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: daver!one.net!kleeman <daver!one.net!kleeman>
>>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>>Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:23 AM
>>Subject: website
>>
>>
>>>Hi everyone
>>>well, i finally got my online catalog up and running
>>>http://www.taylordExpressions.com
>>>
>>>the online catalog has about 1200 items, to be a total of about 2000
items
>>>online.  the printed catalog will be out in about two weeks (typing as
>fast
>>>as i can on it) it will have about 7000item in it.
>>>
>>>anyone contacting me in the next two week with their snail mail address
>>will
>>>receive 25% off the catalog, forever.  not a one time discount, but a
>>>forever discount.
>>>
>>>if you don't see what you want online, call or e-mail me kleeman@one.net
>>for
>>>availability.
>>>
>>>i am trying to make it easy for everyone to order everything they need
>from
>>>one place.  this also means one shipping charge. and no minimum order
>>>required.
>>>
>>>please let me know any comments (good and bad) you have pertaining to the
>>>site.  i have an 888 number, so if you have any questions, feel free to
>>>call.  please check hours of operation before calling.
>>>
>>>thank you for your time
>>>debbie taylor
>>>kleeman@one.net
>>>http://www.taylordExpressions.com
>>>
>>>
>>>----
>>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>>
>>
>>----
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>>
>
>
>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 13:06:59 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: What goes on?
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:08:15 EST
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In a message dated 2/2/99 5:00:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, CncptThnkr@aol.com
writes:

<< I really
 want to do something with foil and lead in the same project, anyone have an
 idea?  Thanks,
  >>

I did a panel once using lead came and copper foil.  The panel 
had glass framing strips all around the perimeter.  I'm not sure 
why I used lead came on those perimeter pieces.  It might have
been aethestic - maybe I thought it would look straighter.  More 
likely, I thought I could save some soldering time, forgetting 
that I would have to putty the came.

Anyway, I like to use lead came once in awhile because it's so
medieval.  Using techniques that haven't changed for 500 -1000
years is fun.  The oldest piece of stained glass dates to 681, from Jarrow
Monastery.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 13:31:18 1999
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charles_Spitzer
From: "Charles Spitzer" <Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: using shopvac in glass workshops
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:20:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.6201.0>
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-----Original Message-----
From: mschatee@juno.com <mschatee@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners


<snip>
>(By the way I'm sucking with a shop vac which I bought after the
>last storm).  Actually I'm glad I had to buy the shop vac since I am now
>using it to clean the glass shards out of my Morton grid and the water
>and guk out of my grinder.
>So back to the basement for me (and I planned on doing glass today).  Gee
>do you think I'd have a problem soldering in a puddle of water?
>
>Enjoying being a Northerner (NOT)
>
>Caren

anyone but me see the problem with this? i don't think the sleeve filter on
your shopvac will stop too much glass dust, and thus when it dries and you
turn it on again, you've filled your workshop air with loads of glass dust.
unless you're using a respirator, i don't think you want to do this.

scrape out your grinder dust while it is still wet, and discard in a closed
bag immediately.

regards,
charlie
phx, az


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 13:38:01 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: pigznpawz@mindspring.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:18:24 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.201824.0>
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In a message dated 2/2/99 8:49:51 AM Pacific Standard Time,
pigznpawz@mindspring.com writes:

<< A true Southerner doesn't microwave bacon.  It's not any good unless you
fry
 it and really soak it in it's own grease.  ;) >>

I will stack the Quebecers up against the Dixiecrats any time for their
love of all things hog fat.

A singular delicacy is fried slices of what we New Englanders call
salt pork, it may be called fat back in the South.  The also like to
spread their bread with that stuff that coagulates in the bottom 
of the roasting pork pan.

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 13:58:22 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 14:57:47 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.85747.0>
References: <<199902021921.LAA13722@oceanus.island.net>>
Precedence: bulk

> What about when your truck is unattended?  Do you have concerns about
> vandalism?  For me, I can see a double edged sword here...waiting hours in a
> parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to
> orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism during
> the 2 hour ferry ride? 


Having taken those ferry rides, sans glass, I think I'd take a beverage
and good book and make the ride with the glass.  Up on deck on return
trip.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 14:02:41 1999
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: NG--hot bacon?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:36:45 +0000
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> PS I Have it on good authority that both southern and northern bachelors
> use the same recipe for bacon (and everything else):
> Microwave till hot.


The bacon or the bachelor?
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 14:21:22 1999
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From: "Vincent LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <mschatee@juno.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:17:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.11172.0>
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Give me the North anytime.

Three weeks ago, in the height of an ice and snow storm, my wife and I took
off for Naples (made the wrong choice) Florida to combine a search for a
winter home excursion with a vacation.  Four days into the trip I had to fly
home with what I thought was a sinus infection.  I got off the plane in
Newark NJ into a limo straight up to my doctors, who we called by cell phone
from the air. From there into an ambulance for a trip to the hospital where
I spent nine days being treated for pneumonia and diminished lung capacity,
and have been home recuperating for the last ten days.  This was probably
the most uncomfortable and potentially dangerous flights of my life.   Who
the h*ll knew you could kill yourself by flying first class?

I am back home in NJ now where its safe! Where we use olive oil instead of
bacon grease, grits (polenta) can be cooked "al'Dente" (ala Joe Pesce), and
no one cares if they're the instant variety.

Great to be back and recuporating.
Ciao

Vic

-----Original Message-----
From: mschatee@juno.com <mschatee@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners


>Speaking of Northerners...I am one, true blue, born and bred New Yorker,
>the worst kind of Northerner I know.  So we have had a tough winter.  Two
>weeks ago we had tons of snow then rain, which led to melting and
>flooding in my basement.  I had to take apart my stained glass area of
>the basement to suck up the water.  Well a few days ago I finally put it
>all back together and got back to glass work.  Well here we go again, we
>had an ice storm last night (some benefits I got a snow day today being a
>teacher), but I'm back to sucking up water again right under my glass
>tables.  (By the way I'm sucking with a shop vac which I bought after the
>last storm).  Actually I'm glad I had to buy the shop vac since I am now
>using it to clean the glass shards out of my Morton grid and the water
>and guk out of my grinder.
>So back to the basement for me (and I planned on doing glass today).  Gee
>do you think I'd have a problem soldering in a puddle of water?
>
>Enjoying being a Northerner (NOT)
>
>Caren
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 16:06:19 1999
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From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:15:56 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.231556.0>
References: <<1999Feb2.201824.0>>
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And we Jews spread that rendered Chicken Fat all over everything.  Well
at least my grandmother did.
Of course anything fried and greasy no matter what the source is usually
pretty darn yummy.

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 16:28:51 1999
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From: mschatee@juno.com
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Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:15:56 EST
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Gee Vic I certainly hope you are feeling better.  Serves you right for
flying first class!
>From all of us in COACH Class.

Hope you are back on your feet.

Caren

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 16:39:08 1999
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From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: NG-about that bacon grease......
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:53:55 -0800
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As a transplanted New Jerseyite?  to NC, forget the bacon, where do you get Wonder
Bread?  I bring it back from NJ and freeze it, cain't git it in these parts.

Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:

> IA's enquiring mind wants to know:
>
> >Suzanne de Tulsa,
> >
> >Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the
> paper
> >towels????  True northerner here, can ya tell??
>
> Hell, no! Y' cain't cook bacon in no newfangled gadget like that! Y'all gotta
> use a big ol' cast-arn skillet!
>
> Sparks          Born in California but with a grammaw an' grampaw from
>                         Arkinsaw, who larned me real good that the basic food groups
>                         are hambeans, Wonder bread, and milk gravy made with
>                         that good ol' bacon grease
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 16:50:38 1999
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From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: NG--hot bacon?
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:40:56 -0800
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Both

Albert Lewis wrote:

> > PS I Have it on good authority that both southern and northern bachelors
> > use the same recipe for bacon (and everything else):
> > Microwave till hot.
>
> The bacon or the bachelor?
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 17:01:37 1999
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From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: using shopvac in glass workshops
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:15:56 EST
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Gee I never thought about the glass dust going back into the air.  Thanks
for the great advice and I thought I was doing something good:-)  Oh well
back to scrapping guk.


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 18:02:48 1999
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From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
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Subject: Re: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:09:14 -0800
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Okay...this got my attention:)
Bacon fat, eh??? I don't know where this came from...(mom was English and
dad from New Zealand)...but you take a piece of bread and fry it in bacon
fat dripping...with the morning breakfast of scrambled eggs and tomatoes!!
Not often do I eat it..grin, but it's good! 
Cindy


>In a message dated 2/2/99 8:49:51 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>pigznpawz@mindspring.com writes:
>
><< A true Southerner doesn't microwave bacon.  It's not any good unless you
>fry
> it and really soak it in it's own grease.  ;) >>
>
>I will stack the Quebecers up against the Dixiecrats any time for their
>love of all things hog fat.
>
>A singular delicacy is fried slices of what we New Englanders call
>salt pork, it may be called fat back in the South.  The also like to
>spread their bread with that stuff that coagulates in the bottom 
>of the roasting pork pan.
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 18:34:49 1999
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From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:18:59 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.91859.0>
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I have my glass rack mounted in the back of a Chevy El Camino. The low side
makes it convient to handle glass in and out. With the help of the air
shocks can rack 100+ sheets of glass, 250 pounds of lead came and a case of
Spectrum in one load. I routinely transport glass fron Los Angeles to
Escondido, a distance of about 90 miles, at 70 MPH.

About once in ten trips will I have a sheet of glass cracked- likely due to
a "stone" or pressure point on an adjacent piece of glass. I use double
nylon cynch straps and adjust them moderately tight. I have never had any
damage to transported glass from road trash.

I know of a studio that backed out of the driveway and had 14 cabinet door
panels fall over due to not being strapped. Broke six. I often stop for
coffee halfway on my trip down from LA and will check the load before
getting underway again. Moderate tightening is often in order. I would have
no reservations in transporting glass or panels across country by this
method. Of course, I would want to take some provision to insure against
thieft.

If the chance comes my way I might get something like a 1932 Ford pickup
truck to transport glass. Might just park it while loaded with a likely
panel where the public could see it.

Bob

>2. I was once flagged down by a fellow motorest and given an order.

Hey Bob...first time I read that I read ticket instead of order...thought
maybe it was illegal in Calif to leave your glass exposed :) (thinking of
Patrick and his tutu here).  So if you leave the glass uncovered it's like a
rolling billboard!!

In all seriousness though, I'm wondering how far you transport glass and at
what speed?

Many of my deliveries require highway speed travel for 4 hours...I tend to
go through a new windshield every couple of years thanks to flying rocks
kicked up by other motorists.

Are your deliveries similar?  And you've never had a flying rock problem?

What about when your truck is unattended?  Do you have concerns about
vandalism?  For me, I can see a double edged sword here...waiting hours in a
parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to
orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism during
the 2 hour ferry ride?

Guess I'd like to hear more about your delivery trips...how long are they?

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net
Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 18:41:37 1999
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Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:25:43 -0500
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I think you COVER the bacon with the paper towels so you don't waste any of that
lovely grease by splattering it around.

(If you are making a cake, don't grease the cake tins with bacon grease....a
lesson learned at the age of 13 while living in Florida.)

CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 2/1/99 10:38:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:
>
> >  1. Save all manner of bacon grease.  You will be instructed later how
> >  to
> >  > > use it.
>
> Suzanne de Tulsa,
>
> Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the paper
> towels????  True northerner here, can ya tell??
>
> Take care.
>
> IA
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 19:13:13 1999
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Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:37:47 -0500
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Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:

> most people don't think about: where do stained glass windows come from,
> anyway? How do they get where they're going? etc. etc.
>

I sometimes think I ought to carry around a couple largish suncatchers to hang in
my car windows -- like from the hooks for clothes hangers -- when i'm parked at
the shopping center....  Telephone number discretely displayed, of course.

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 19:13:39 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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What? Who? ME?
A Battleaxe of a Swedish Viking being called an "English Chick" 
:-<
Ghrumphhh!
That'll be the day!!
Toby! Here Boy! Let go of that woman's leg
E 'n T IN Uk ( ...not OF!!)

Tulsa Suzanne wrote:
Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am
going to learn to do lead work soon! ;o)  Waiting for this really cool
English chick to visit the USA...I bet you hear about her soon too.

----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 19:32:12 1999
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Subject: Re: NG-about that bacon grease......
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Hi All,
Not only have I glandular fever, ear infection and goodness knows 
what else..... BUT my computer also CRASHED on me!!!
Bahh-haaa!!!
Spent almost a week without  any mail, nor able to while away my 
sickbed hours answering mail and being cheered up.
My ears are crackling away and I'm as deaf as a post (....so! What's 
NEW!!)
Kris - my computer-knight in wonderful shining armour has just 
rescued me and so I'm back on line again.
BACON!!!! Did someone mention B A C O N   ????!!!
I drool for BACON after eating liquid food for the last 7 weeks!!
Suzanne in Tulsa, you sound just my kind of COOK!! 
MICROWAVE bacon. Total sacrilege!!! Either frying pan ( = skillet??) 
or maximum under the grill for me.

Anyone coming to stay with me here in UK will almost certainly be 
served a full English breakfast ; grilled/fried bacon, sausages,  
fried eggs, grilled mushrooms ( in bacon fat), grilled tomatoes on a 
bed of hot toast, together with a generous portion of baked beans; 
fried potato slices and huge mugs of Earl Grey Tea.
Mopping away the bacon fat with kitchen paper?? Nah!!!
Right now.... Sigh.... Pigs might fly.....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


IA's enquiring mind wants to know:

>Suzanne de Tulsa,
>
>Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the
paper
>towels????  True northerner here, can ya tell??  

Hell, no! Y' cain't cook bacon in no newfangled gadget like that! Y'all gotta
use a big ol' cast-arn skillet!


Sparks		Born in California but with a grammaw an' grampaw from
			Arkinsaw, who larned me real good that the basic food groups
			are hambeans, Wonder bread, and milk gravy made with
			that good ol' bacon grease
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----
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 19:36:59 1999
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Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:18:58 +0000
Message-ID: <199902030145.BAA16250@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

 I've lost someone special in my extended family
 
Ok Folks,
Bob's wife is called Maxine
Bob won't need us anymore, She quite likely just might. She sounds a 
wonderfully warm person.  I have had a couple of e-mails from her 
(before my system crashed!!)
So let's remember by  keeping in touch with HER!
And not just NOW, but even more importantly, in a year's time....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


 Just needed to share that.
 Shirley B >>


Oh this was wonderful.


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 19:54:28 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Snail Mail Address Bob Shyguy
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:18:58 +0000
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Dear Glenna,
Thank you for posting that snail mail address.
I - for one - will write to Maxine via snailmail.
We may be terribly keen and anxious to "talk" stained glass.
There is room for human interactions too - something I have always 
advocated.  The memories and statements about Bob.... just speak for 
themselves.
We have lost not just a stained glass artist, not just a "Bunginian" 
but a lovely person too.....and so many people have anecdotes to 
tell.
That is only right.
What concerns me is that Maxine should be able to  find support from 
us in 12 months time. Right now, her family and friends are / will be 
rallying around.  The hardest time is the time when everyone walks 
off to live their own lives, with THEIR loved ones and you are left 
there sitting there with this awful gap in your life, this painful 
hollow that gnaws away at you. It's THAT which takes its time to eat 
its way through.  It isn't instant, it takes time before it really 
hits you in the face.
So can we please get together in 12 months time to remember Bob 
Shyguy and - perhaps - be "THERE" for Maxine.....
I do hope so........
Life just isn't fair.... it has never claimed to be.  It's up to each 
and every one of us to redress the balance..
Thank you Glenna!

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK



Glenna Rand wrote:

 Maxine Meyerhardt (I'm a feminest and didn't take Bob's 
name which was van Valen)
130 Atlantic Avenue
Massapequa Park, NY 11762

His sons are Derek and Marshall van Valen

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 19:56:41 1999
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-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:	INTERNET:MAILER-DAEMON@daver.bungi.com, INTERNET:MAILER-DAEMON@dave=
r.bungi.com
To:	[unknown], GreerStudios
	=

Date:	2/2/99  5:20 PM

RE:	mail failed, returning to sender

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:18:46 -0500
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Subject: Not again!  Argghhhhh!
Sender: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <all@bungi.com>
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Hi everyone-

My computer kicked the bucket again today, so I'm in the process of getti=
=3D
ng
to know my new one (so far I hate it!)  Also has new CompuServe software
and
I'm totally in the dark.  Hope this gets to you.  Please post something s=
=3D
o
I can
add you to my address book again and could someone send me the IGGA
board addresses?  =3D


Phfzzztttt! :-(

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =3D

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 20:12:16 1999
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@mail.n-link.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:49:49 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.144949.0>
Precedence: bulk

Not really. Actually, I translated it for her, and told her I never argue
with 5 year old .... They win too often.
Boy .... do I need to get back to the studio,


-----Original Message-----
From: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@mail.n-link.com
<daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@mail.n-link.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 2:25 PM
Subject: RE: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick


>This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
>------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4EDE.19908D04
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>Jerri
>
>Comparing Patrick to a 5 yr. old?
>Isn't that being unfair to Patrick?
>
>Vic M.
>vmodiano@ctronsoft.com
>
>PS I Have it on good authority that both southern and northern bachelors
>use the same recipe for bacon (and everything else):
>Microwave till hot.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerri [mailto:pigznpawz@mindspring.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:02 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick
>
> A true Southerner doesn't microwave bacon.  It's not any
>good unless you fry
> it and really soak it in it's own grease.  ;)
>
> Jerri
> from Georgia
>
>
> P.S. Patrick,  my 5 yr. old will argue with you.  It
>really goes, "I'm late.
> I'm late.  I'm being fortune tate."  I haven't quite
>figured out what that
> means, but I'm corrected every time I say "for a very
>important date."
>
>
>
>
> >
> >>  1. Save all manner of bacon grease.  You will be
>instructed later how
> >>  to
> >>  > > use it.
> >
> >Suzanne de Tulsa,
> >
> >Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the
>grease out of the
> paper
> >towels????  True northerner here, can ya tell??
> >
> >Take care.
> >
> >IA
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to:
>glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to:
>glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4EDE.19908D04
>Content-Type: text/html
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
><HTML>
><HEAD>
><META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Dus-ascii">
><META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
>5.5.1960.3">
><TITLE>RE: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick</TITLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Jerri</FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Comparing Patrick to a 5 yr. old? =
></FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Isn't that being unfair to =
>Patrick?</FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M. </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">vmodiano@ctronsoft.com </FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">PS I Have it on good authority that =
>both southern and northern bachelors use the same recipe for bacon (and =
>everything else):</FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Microwave till hot.</FONT>
></P>
><UL><UL>
><P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
>Message-----</FONT></A>
><BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Jerri [<A =
>HREF=3D"mailto:pigznpawz@mindspring.com" =
>TARGET=3D"_blank">mailto:pigznpawz@mindspring.com</A>]</FONT></B>
><BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
>SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:02 AM</FONT>
><BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
>FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
>FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
><BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
>FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">NG--Southerners, oh and you too, =
>Patrick</FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">A true Southerner doesn't microwave =
>bacon.&nbsp; It's not any good unless you fry</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">it and really soak it in it's own =
>grease.&nbsp; ;)</FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Jerri</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">from Georgia</FONT>
></P>
><BR>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">P.S. Patrick,&nbsp; my 5 yr. old will =
>argue with you.&nbsp; It really goes, &quot;I'm late.</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I'm late.&nbsp; I'm being fortune =
>tate.&quot;&nbsp; I haven't quite figured out what that</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">means, but I'm corrected every time I =
>say &quot;for a very important date.&quot;</FONT>
></P>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;&gt;&nbsp; 1. Save all manner of =
>bacon grease.&nbsp; You will be instructed later how</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;&gt;&nbsp; to</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; use =
>it.</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;Suzanne de Tulsa,</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;Ummm, after you microwave the =
>bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">paper</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;towels????&nbsp; True northerner =
>here, can ya tell??</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;Take care.</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;IA</FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For subscription changes, please mail =
>to: glass-request@bungi.com</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To send to the =
>list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: =
>glass@bungi.com</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Archives available at <A =
>HREF=3D"http://www.bungi.com/glass" =
>TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></FONT>
></P>
></UL></UL>
></BODY>
></HTML>
>------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4EDE.19908D04--
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 20:21:00 1999
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Charles Spitzer" <Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com>, "glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: using shopvac in glass workshops
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:54:34 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.145434.0>
Precedence: bulk

I think what she is saying is vacuuming the Morton grid system and getting
out the shards. I never vacuum the grinder.


-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Spitzer <Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 3:48 PM
Subject: using shopvac in glass workshops


>-----Original Message-----
>From: mschatee@juno.com <mschatee@juno.com>
>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 10:38 AM
>Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners
>
>
><snip>
>>(By the way I'm sucking with a shop vac which I bought after the
>>last storm).  Actually I'm glad I had to buy the shop vac since I am now
>>using it to clean the glass shards out of my Morton grid and the water
>>and guk out of my grinder.
>>So back to the basement for me (and I planned on doing glass today).  Gee
>>do you think I'd have a problem soldering in a puddle of water?
>>
>>Enjoying being a Northerner (NOT)
>>
>>Caren
>
>anyone but me see the problem with this? i don't think the sleeve filter on
>your shopvac will stop too much glass dust, and thus when it dries and you
>turn it on again, you've filled your workshop air with loads of glass dust.
>unless you're using a respirator, i don't think you want to do this.
>
>scrape out your grinder dust while it is still wet, and discard in a closed
>bag immediately.
>
>regards,
>charlie
>phx, az
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 20:28:31 1999
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Conure Pattern
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:19:26 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.151926.0>
Precedence: bulk

There has been such a demand for this pattern I'll complete the rest who
haven't received them yet.
Anybody else?? Just ask .... Its free.

BTW I just got my photos back and will email a jpg file to anyone who would
like it. (except the canine from Cornwall who will probably eat it)

PS Forgot all about the archived patterns we have. Who is in charge of that
and I send the pattern and jpg to you for future use.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 20:35:31 1999
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG--hot bacon?
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:58:16 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.145816.0>
Precedence: bulk

Albert,

I feel sorry for you. You are sick as I am.  ROFL

-----Original Message-----
From: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 4:15 PM
Subject: RE: NG--hot bacon?


>
>> PS I Have it on good authority that both southern and northern bachelors
>> use the same recipe for bacon (and everything else):
>> Microwave till hot.
>
>
>The bacon or the bachelor?
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 20:41:15 1999
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: What goes on?
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:33:26 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.153326.0>
Precedence: bulk

E'

You did post you were a" Mother Hen, cluck, cluck, cluck." Now you are an
"English Chick". As least she didn't call you a "Chipie" or a "Bird". LOL

You are back to your same old self. Looking forward to your visit (like the
chicken pox) LOL

-----Original Message-----
From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: What goes on?


>What? Who? ME?
>A Battleaxe of a Swedish Viking being called an "English Chick"
>:-<
>Ghrumphhh!
>That'll be the day!!
>Toby! Here Boy! Let go of that woman's leg
>E 'n T IN Uk ( ...not OF!!)
>
>Tulsa Suzanne wrote:
>Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am
>going to learn to do lead work soon! ;o)  Waiting for this really cool
>English chick to visit the USA...I bet you hear about her soon too.
>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 20:49:33 1999
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To: Cindy Pesonen <cpesonen@uniserve.com>
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Subject: Re: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:15:17 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.111517.0>
References: <<E107qoc-0007Ao-00@pop.uniserve.com>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

Cindy Pesonen wrote:
> 
> Okay...this got my attention:)
> Bacon fat, eh??? I don't know where this came from...(mom was English and
> dad from New Zealand)...but you take a piece of bread and fry it in bacon
> fat dripping...with the morning breakfast of scrambled eggs and tomatoes!!
> Not often do I eat it..grin, but it's good!
> Cindy
> 
> >In a message dated 2/2/99 8:49:51 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> >pigznpawz@mindspring.com writes:
> >
> ><< A true Southerner doesn't microwave bacon.  It's not any good unless you
> >fry
> > it and really soak it in it's own grease.  ;) >>
> >
> >I will stack the Quebecers up against the Dixiecrats any time for their
> >love of all things hog fat.
> >
> >A singular delicacy is fried slices of what we New Englanders call
> >salt pork, it may be called fat back in the South.  The also like to
> >spread their bread with that stuff that coagulates in the bottom
> >of the roasting pork pan.
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> 

I have heard of this...my mother is from England too and she was in the
Navy and apparently the bread and bacon fat business was what they'd all
sneak down to the kitchen and gorge on after dinner.  Apparently she got
pretty big too in the course of things...she lost it all  but I just
cant imagine a bedtime snack every nite of bacon grease and bread...ugh.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 20:50:28 1999
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Family Account" <shad@mail2.nai.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:34:29 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.153429.0>
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Why Not??

It pays to advertise.

-----Original Message-----
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass


>
>
>Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
>
>> most people don't think about: where do stained glass windows come from,
>> anyway? How do they get where they're going? etc. etc.
>>
>
>I sometimes think I ought to carry around a couple largish suncatchers to
hang in
>my car windows -- like from the hooks for clothes hangers -- when i'm
parked at
>the shopping center....  Telephone number discretely displayed, of course.
>
>Dorothy
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 21:21:24 1999
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: what is bungi? by L Nelson
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:37:10 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.43710.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,  One of the best things we do is commmmmmisserate....everyone is very
supportive here, and only once have we had to stand in the corner for bad
behavior.

Often someone finds a great website on glass and passes it to the
group....unlike meeting in a crowded room and someone passes you the
flu.....and eventually you will "meet" the members of the list through their
e-mails.  

Maureen

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 21:33:24 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Pat Kelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: What goes on?
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 23:05:15 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb2.17515.0>
References: <<1999Feb2.153326.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Now, listen here, before y'all go to sickin the dogs on me, that's a
compliment in my neck o' the woods!

Really, Elisabeth, you should know better! ;o)
let's see..what would a *really* bold student of yours in England say
just before ducking?  "Now, don't get your knickers twisted!"?

Tulsa Suzanne....
(Keep in mind Elisabeth, the kids are asleep, I'm windin down, and I've
had/having my wine!) 

Pat Kelly wrote:
> 
> E'
> 
> You did post you were a" Mother Hen, cluck, cluck, cluck." Now you are an
> "English Chick". As least she didn't call you a "Chipie" or a "Bird". LOL
> 
> You are back to your same old self. Looking forward to your visit (like the
> chicken pox) LOL
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
> To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:24 PM
> Subject: Re: What goes on?
> 
> >What? Who? ME?
> >A Battleaxe of a Swedish Viking being called an "English Chick"
> >:-<
> >Ghrumphhh!
> >That'll be the day!!
> >Toby! Here Boy! Let go of that woman's leg
> >E 'n T IN Uk ( ...not OF!!)
> >
> >Tulsa Suzanne wrote:
> >Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am
> >going to learn to do lead work soon! ;o)  Waiting for this really cool
> >English chick to visit the USA...I bet you hear about her soon too.
> >
> >----
> >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> >----
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 21:54:05 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Carol Swann" <seaspray@mail.island.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:21:00 -0800
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Carol Swann writes, in part:
>>Thanks for answering Bob.  I appreciate the advice.  Sheet glass I get
delivered to my door once a month by my wholesaler...he puts them right into
the racks.  Pay $20 towards delivery whether it's a $200 order or a $1000
order. <<

No chance of me getting that service but I would sure like to. You or anyone
else that sends me (not the list) a request will get a JPEG attachment of my
glass rack. It was purchased from Pacific Glass, Gardinia, CA., but a handy
person should be able to construct one from the picture.

Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  2 22:09:08 1999
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:26:42 -0800
Message-ID: <199902030526.VAA28661@oceanus.island.net>
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Why Not??
>
>It pays to advertise.

>>Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> most people don't think about: where do stained glass windows come from,
>>> anyway? How do they get where they're going? etc. etc.
>>>
>>
>>I sometimes think I ought to carry around a couple largish suncatchers to
>hang in
>>my car windows -- like from the hooks for clothes hangers -- when i'm
>parked at
>>the shopping center....  Telephone number discretely displayed, of course.
>>
>>Dorothy

On glass racks I'm planning, part of the plan is to add studio name, phone
number and slogan  "you imagine it...we create it", sort of an unbreakable
version of Dorothy's "earrings for her car"...the suncatchers she hangs in
the window.

There's only one drawback to this...gotta keep the truck washed, waxed and
polished :( if it's gonna be a travelling billboard.  Maybe I should get the
dent from its close inspection of a ditch taken out too :)

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
http://come.to/The_E-Tour

----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 01:49:53 1999
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Cindy Pesonen" <cpesonen@uniserve.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Winge winge!
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:07:33 -0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.9733.0>
Precedence: bulk

The full English breakfast is great and who's worried about chloesterol
(sp?) anyway but why have I not heard you talk about beef dripping on toast?
The ultimate artery clogging invention from old Blighty!

Beef dripping is a mixture of the cooking juices and the fat from roasting
beef! Ok it might sound disgusting but the Eskimos eat blubber and they have
the lowest cancer rate in the world!

If the English food of my mother isn't bad enough then my father's native
dishes - short ribs - chicken and dumplings - huge steaks - fudge brownies
would see me off properly!

I'm not allowed any of these excesses so I can only dream on!

BtB




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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 05:24:06 1999
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X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686
From: L Nelson <t6686@netusa1.net>
To: Pat Kelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Conure Pattern
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 08:08:55 -0800
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I would like pattern thanks Laura
I hope this goes threw I am not sure yet how this works but give me time and I
will figure it out then you all will get tired of hearing from me,,,,
Laura

Pat Kelly wrote:

> There has been such a demand for this pattern I'll complete the rest who
> haven't received them yet.
> Anybody else?? Just ask .... Its free.
>
> BTW I just got my photos back and will email a jpg file to anyone who would
> like it. (except the canine from Cornwall who will probably eat it)
>
> PS Forgot all about the archived patterns we have. Who is in charge of that
> and I send the pattern and jpg to you for future use.
>
> Patrick
> Roses and Rainbows
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 06:42:47 1999
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From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
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Subject: RE: What goes on?
Date: Wed Feb  3 06:19:46 1999
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------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4F7E.4295ABB2
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You are much closer to a chick than a battleaxe.
Aren't you the one with the pixie smile and sweet expression?
(Toby, please note the filet mignon scattered around the floor.)

Vic M.

PS I E-mailed WC asking how to reserve but haven't heard back yet. Is
this a good thing?  

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk]
		Sent:	Tuesday, February 02, 1999 8:19 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: What goes on?

		What? Who? ME?
		A Battleaxe of a Swedish Viking being called an "English
Chick" 
		:-<
		Ghrumphhh!
		That'll be the day!!
		Toby! Here Boy! Let go of that woman's leg
		E 'n T IN Uk ( ...not OF!!)

		Tulsa Suzanne wrote:
		Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping
stones. But am
		going to learn to do lead work soon! ;o)  Waiting for
this really cool
		English chick to visit the USA...I bet you hear about
her soon too.

		----
		As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of
mind"
		North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
	
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
		----
		----
		For subscription changes, please mail to:
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charset=3Dus-ascii">
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</HEAD>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">You are much closer to a chick than a =
battleaxe.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Aren't you the one with the pixie =
smile and sweet expression?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">(Toby, please note the filet mignon =
scattered around the floor.)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">PS I E-mailed WC asking how to reserve =
but haven't heard back yet. Is this a good thing?&nbsp; </FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Toby [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk</A>]</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Tuesday, February 02, 1999 8:19 PM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Re: What goes on?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">What? Who? ME?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">A Battleaxe of a Swedish Viking being =
called an &quot;English Chick&quot; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">:-&lt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Ghrumphhh!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">That'll be the day!!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Toby! Here Boy! Let go of that =
woman's leg</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">E 'n T IN Uk ( ...not OF!!)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Tulsa Suzanne wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Myself, All I have ever done is =
copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">going to learn to do lead work soon! =
;o)&nbsp; Waiting for this really cool</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">English chick to visit the USA...I =
bet you hear about her soon too.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">As my grandmother said &quot;...there =
is only nobility of mind&quot;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">North Lights Stained Glass - =
homepage</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.=
htm</A> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For subscription changes, please mail =
to: glass-request@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To send to the =
list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: =
glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Archives available at <A =
HREF=3D"http://www.bungi.com/glass" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></FONT>
</P>
</UL></UL>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 07:26:37 1999
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From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: NG--hot bacon?
Date: Wed Feb  3 06:57:20 1999
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I think the bachelor holds the bacon in the microwave.
I'm married now and those single days memories are slowly being beaten,
um... forced out, er make that ....
Lets just call it selective memory loss and leave it at that.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com
 

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Albert Lewis
[mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net]
		Sent:	Tuesday, February 02, 1999 10:37 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	RE: NG--hot bacon?


		> PS I Have it on good authority that both southern and
northern bachelors
		> use the same recipe for bacon (and everything else):
		> Microwave till hot.


		The bacon or the bachelor?
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I think the bachelor holds the bacon =
in the microwave.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I'm married now and those single days =
memories are slowly being beaten, um... forced out, er make that =
....</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Lets just call it selective memory =
loss and leave it at that.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp;</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Albert Lewis [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net</A>]</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Tuesday, February 02, 1999 10:37 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">RE: NG--hot bacon?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt; PS I Have it on good authority =
that both southern and northern bachelors</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt; use the same recipe for bacon =
(and everything else):</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt; Microwave till hot.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The bacon or the bachelor?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
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to: glass-request@bungi.com</FONT>
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list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: =
glass@bungi.com</FONT>
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TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></FONT>
</P>
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:00:02 -0500
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Message text written by INTERNET:JJKIRBY@aol.com
>The also like to
spread their bread with that stuff that coagulates in the bottom =

of the roasting pork pan.<

Ugh.  I made the mistake of reading that while sipping my hot
tea & milk.  Yuck.  Too many memories here.

Christie A. Wood (raised in Shreveport, Louisiana where bacon grease rule=
s)
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: vmodiano@ctronsoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: NG--hot bacon?
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:58:33 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.35833.0>
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Vic, 

When ever my husband thinks the house isnt as neat or clean as it should
be, I remind him what color the kitchen sink and bathtub were when we
met.  Even at it's worse now, it is *WAY* better than before! ;o)
Amazes me he didnt get some awful disease!

Tulsa Suzanne
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From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:13:28 -0800
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1932 or even in the early 40's sure would look classy, Bob.
Good luck with your glass racks Carol. I can understand your concern while
on the ferry... Vandlism (sp..too early for spelling) is a scary thought,
but what can ya do, maybe a clear sheet of window glass on the exterior.
Cindy

>If the chance comes my way I might get something like a 1932 Ford pickup
>truck to transport glass. Might just park it while loaded with a likely
>panel where the public could see it.
>
>Bob

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From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
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Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:14:04 -0800
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Unless you're making *pigs in a blankey*...(blanket), grin.
Cindy


>(If you are making a cake, don't grease the cake tins with bacon grease....a
>lesson learned at the age of 13 while living in Florida.)
>
>

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From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Winge winge!
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:14:55 -0800
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>Yikes...we did eat alot of that too. The Sunday roast lasted a long time.
The finial last supper of it was after your namesake Brian:)...Shepherd's
pie.<VBG>.
>Beef dripping on toast was ultimately my sister's fav, but I have learnt to
make excellent gravy:):)
>Cindy
>
>
>>The full English breakfast is great and who's worried about chloesterol
>>(sp?) anyway but why have I not heard you talk about beef dripping on toast?
>>The ultimate artery clogging invention from old Blighty!
>>
>>Beef dripping is a mixture of the cooking juices and the fat from roasting
>>beef! Ok it might sound disgusting but the Eskimos eat blubber and they have
>>the lowest cancer rate in the world!
>>
>>If the English food of my mother isn't bad enough then my father's native
>>dishes - short ribs - chicken and dumplings - huge steaks - fudge brownies
>>would see me off properly!
>>
>>I'm not allowed any of these excesses so I can only dream on!
>>
>>BtB
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>

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From: "Kathe R. Mc Donald" <krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu>
To: "'Toby'" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: ENUF ALREADY!
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:11:27 -0600
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Come on, folks, let's don't get Elisabeth riled up (English chick).  I 
 fear that these frequent illnesses she's had of late could be stress 
related.....what with these tales of how us Yanks eat. Don't worry 
Elisabeth...we'll all be on our good behavior and won't subject you to any 
culinary frights.  We're all in for a treat....I've spent more than a few 
nights raising a glass with her and she's only better in person.  I, for 
one,can't wait until she gets over here.  I want to know, however, how come 
I didn't get the mushrooms with my breakfast????

  
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X-Path: detroit.freenet.org!ae479
From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: prairie lamps
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:22:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199902031722.MAA10271@detroit.freenet.org>
Precedence: bulk


We have a group getting ready to assemble the four sides of prairie
lamps.  I know they will not be rigid and plan to reinforce them.
with 18g.wire.  Has anyone tried putting a spider in and then 
attaching the vase cap just by screwing down on the harp.  Opinions
would be most welcome - would it be stronger or just a waste of time.

  
Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 10:23:31 1999
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From: GlassLites@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Re: NG-advice for Northerners
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:19:40 EST
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In a message dated 2/2/99, 4:24:39 PM, Vic writes:

<<  This was probably
the most uncomfortable and potentially dangerous flights of my life.   Who
the h*ll knew you could kill yourself by flying first class?>>

It happens more often than you think. I have a 'day job' where I must fly all
over the country several times a year. Each time I fly I come home sick and am
out of work for several days. I head for my doctor who says upon seeing me
"you've been flying again, I see" and perscribes assorted antibiotics.

Several of my fellow workers are now (after years of flying) starting to have
the same complaints.

Flying ain't fun.

Cheryl Lowe
Glass Lites Studio
GlassLites@aol.com
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 10:24:01 1999
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From: GlassLites@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Re: NG-about that bacon grease......
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:30:09 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.17309.0>
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In a message dated 2/2/99, 10:50:24 PM, Elizabeth 'n Toby  writes:

<<Anyone coming to stay with me here in UK will almost certainly be 
served a full English breakfast ; grilled/fried bacon, sausages,  
fried eggs, grilled mushrooms ( in bacon fat), grilled tomatoes on a 
bed of hot toast, together with a generous portion of baked beans; 
fried potato slices and huge mugs of Earl Grey Tea.>>

Boy, does that sound good!!!! I don't have to be English to know good food
when I 'see' it!


Cheryl Lowe
Glass Lites Studio
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Subject: please subscribe me to the bungi mailing list. 
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:37:44 -0600
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I suspect that I may have been removed from the mailing list
because my server went nuts yesterday.

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From: Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>
To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker), glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: prairie lamps
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:33:45 -0800
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At 12:22 PM 2/3/99 -0500, Sue Becker wrote:
>
>We have a group getting ready to assemble the four sides of prairie
>lamps.  I know they will not be rigid and plan to reinforce them.
>with 18g.wire.  Has anyone tried putting a spider in and then 
>attaching the vase cap just by screwing down on the harp.  Opinions
>would be most welcome - would it be stronger or just a waste of time.
>

I just use the vase cap, soldered securely all around the top.  The top
portion of the shade is plenty rigid with it alone.  I think soldering the
spider and then screwing (but not soldering) the vase case would result in
a flimsier shade unless the vase cap wraps around your panels *perfectly*.
 It never does for me.   If the shade is a bit large, the cap would tend to
slide to one side, rather than stay flat, as you tighten the screw.  If the
shade is small, the cap won't grip the panels evenly.

I have run a wire around the bottom edge to add a bit of strength there.
I've also found the bottom wire to be useful in situations where sharp
points come together at the bottom edge.  Because of my less-than-perfect
cutting skills, there is often a dip at those junctions that makes the
bottom solder beading uneven.  Having a wire span the dips gives the solder
something to grab so the finished edge looks straighter.

Steve
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Steve Wernecke'" <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: prairie lamps
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:30:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.103042.0>
Precedence: bulk


If the sides made a square box, the thing would flex and distort but because each side is a trapazoid, it adds it's own strength.  

Linda Campbell


-----Original Message-----
From:	Steve Wernecke [SMTP:steve@villagesoftsmith.com]
Sent:	Wednesday, February 03, 1999 2:34 PM
To:	Sue Becker; glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Re: prairie lamps

At 12:22 PM 2/3/99 -0500, Sue Becker wrote:
>
>We have a group getting ready to assemble the four sides of prairie
>lamps.  I know they will not be rigid and plan to reinforce them.
>with 18g.wire.  Has anyone tried putting a spider in and then 
>attaching the vase cap just by screwing down on the harp.  Opinions
>would be most welcome - would it be stronger or just a waste of time.
>

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 13:32:16 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: NG beef grease
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:37:15 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.43715.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
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How come no one mentioned Yorkshire Pudding?  Popovers baked in roast
beef fat. My personal favorite from being raised by an English War Bride
mother.
Gotta say, after reading all these NG post, now I know why my mother is
so fond of frying everything.  Although I still suspect it was cause she
was/is such a busy person, it was done to save time.
Shirley B
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: NG $$ for research
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:00:51 -0600
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Hi all...

Sorry to post yet another NG post..but this one means something to me...

Being widowed by cancer (hard still not to think if it as a living
breathing hate filled entity), I have a personal interest. I also know 
that at least several others on this list have been personally involved
with battles with cancer. 

My daughter just opened a jar of yoplait yougurt to find under the lid
(which is pink) it says.. 

"Youplait will donate 50 cents to the *Breast Cancer Research Foundation
for each pink lid recieved by 4/30/99

The campain is called "Save Lids to Save Lives* (maximum donation
$100,000 guarenteed)  Then it goes on to give the address.

I personally think this is *way, way cool*...especially since I paid 49
cents for each jar of yougurt.  I intend to buy more. ;o)

Just wanted to share this with you.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 15:43:49 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Howard?
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 14:27:44 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.82744.0>
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I was reading a sg lamp book I bought today, and had a question, but it
occured to me I havent seen Howard online quite a while.

Howard, are you out there?

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 16:26:03 1999
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Sue Becker <ae479@detroit.freenet.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: prairie lamps
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:33:58 -0800 (PST)
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Precedence: bulk

Sue:  Not sure i understand what you mean by attaching the vase cap by
screwing down on the harp.  Actually your spider would probably be
sufficient to hold the lamp.  The problem is that it will show in a
prairie style lamp.  I guess to answer your question, if you can attach
the vase cap for looks, then it is likely the spider will be sufficent to
hold the lamp.  Peggy

On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Sue Becker wrote:

> 
> We have a group getting ready to assemble the four sides of prairie
> lamps.  I know they will not be rigid and plan to reinforce them.
> with 18g.wire.  Has anyone tried putting a spider in and then 
> attaching the vase cap just by screwing down on the harp.  Opinions
> would be most welcome - would it be stronger or just a waste of time.
> 
>   
> Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 16:51:55 1999
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From: "Kris" <kristc@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG $$ for research
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:48:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.134849.0>
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Thanks for the info! The post office also sells breast cancer stamps, cost a
few cents more but it's given to research.

On a related subject, anyone seen the latest LIFE magazine, the article on
doing your own funeral instead of going through a funeral home? It started
out about cost, but ended up bringing a lot more sanity and humanity to the
process.

Kris

>
>"Youplait will donate 50 cents to the *Breast Cancer Research Foundation
>for each pink lid recieved by 4/30/99


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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 17:28:05 1999
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject:  Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:09:23 EST
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In a message dated 2/2/99 3:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
seaspray@mail.island.net writes:

<< .waiting hours in a
 parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to
 orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism during
 the 2 hour ferry ride?  >>




We need bumper stickers. But what should they say?

"I'd rather be......"

what?


"I'd rather be glassing"  ?
"I'd rether be staining"  ?
"I'd rather be leading"  ?
"I'd rather be slumping"  ?

any ideas?


Dianne
Jacksonville, FL

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 18:22:32 1999
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:00:33 -0800
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>In a message dated 2/2/99 3:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>seaspray@mail.island.net writes:
>
><< .waiting hours in a
> parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to
> orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism during
> the 2 hour ferry ride?  >>
>
>
>
>
>We need bumper stickers. But what should they say?
>
>"I'd rather be......"
>
>what?
>
>
>"I'd rather be glassing"  ?
>"I'd rether be staining"  ?
>"I'd rather be leading"  ?
>"I'd rather be slumping"  ?
>
>any ideas?

I'd rather be SCORING...of course!!

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
http://come.to/The_E-Tour

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 18:45:47 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: PDRUSS@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:49:42 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.134942.0>
References: <<1999Feb4.0923.0>>
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> We need bumper stickers. But what should they say?
> 
> "I'd rather be......"
> 
> what?
> 
> 
> "I'd rather be glassing"  ?
> "I'd rether be staining"  ?
> "I'd rather be leading"  ?
> "I'd rather be slumping"  ?
> 
> any ideas?
> 
> 
> Dianne
> Jacksonville, FL
> 


I'd rather be scoring?

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 18:56:30 1999
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:46:20 -0500
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2/3/99 7:09 PM PDRUSS@aol.com PDRUSS@aol.com

>We need bumper stickers. But what should they say?
>
>"I'd rather be......"
>
>what?
>
>
>"I'd rather be glassing"  ?
>"I'd rether be staining"  ?
>"I'd rather be leading"  ?
>"I'd rather be slumping"  ?

Glassing takes my vote. 
Staining could be misread!
Leading could be read as leading, as in not following.
Slumping could sound like you're tired.

Glassing covers it all!

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 20:07:15 1999
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From: "Brian Dudack" <bdudack@mediaone.net>
To: <PDRUSS@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:03:02 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.1532.0>
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How about

I'd rather be scoring

Cathie
-----Original Message-----
From: PDRUSS@aol.com <PDRUSS@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass


>In a message dated 2/2/99 3:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>seaspray@mail.island.net writes:
>
><< .waiting hours in a
> parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to
> orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism
during
> the 2 hour ferry ride?  >>
>
>
>
>
>We need bumper stickers. But what should they say?
>
>"I'd rather be......"
>
>what?
>
>
>"I'd rather be glassing"  ?
>"I'd rether be staining"  ?
>"I'd rather be leading"  ?
>"I'd rather be slumping"  ?
>
>any ideas?
>
>
>Dianne
>Jacksonville, FL
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  3 20:35:03 1999
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From: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
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Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 22:03:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.1734.0>
References: <<1999Feb3.171940.0>>
Organization: The Stained Glass Place
Precedence: bulk

That "recycled" air will do it every time! Definitely bad for your
health.
Carolyn
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 00:12:47 1999
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Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Wed Feb  3 21:47:27 1999
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of course my sick mind comes up with

    "i'll play with your glass if you'll play with mine"


-----Original Message-----
From: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass


>>In a message dated 2/2/99 3:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>>seaspray@mail.island.net writes:
>>
>><< .waiting hours in a
>> parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to
>> orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism
during
>> the 2 hour ferry ride?  >>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>We need bumper stickers. But what should they say?
>>
>>"I'd rather be......"
>>
>>what?
>>
>>
>>"I'd rather be glassing"  ?
>>"I'd rether be staining"  ?
>>"I'd rather be leading"  ?
>>"I'd rather be slumping"  ?
>>
>>any ideas?
>
>I'd rather be SCORING...of course!!
>
>C.
>
>Carol Swann
>Synergy Glass & Creative
>http://www.igga.org/synergy
>seaspray@island.net
>
>check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
>http://come.to/The_E-Tour
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 07:57:21 1999
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: PDRUSS@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:13:29 PST
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[In the message entitled "Re: glass racks/transporting glass" on Feb  3, 19:09, PDRUSS@aol.com writes:]

> 
> We need bumper stickers. But what should they say?
> 
> "I'd rather be......"
> 
> what?
> 
> "I'd rather be glassing"  ?
> "I'd rether be staining"  ?
> "I'd rather be leading"  ?
> "I'd rather be slumping"  ?

Glassers know the "score"


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 08:21:41 1999
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: bdudack@mediaone.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:47:59 EST
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Cathi,
My favorite is scoring also.  However, unless you wish to attract men who are
just interested in having sex with you, I think that scoring (by itself) would
not express your true interest.  "I'd rather be scoring (glass)" or "I'd
rather be scoring glass" would be much safer.  Unless you want to hear honking
and wonder what the commotion is about when you pass trucks and cars on the
highway!!!  <BG>
Lenore


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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 08:38:32 1999
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From: "Evelyn C Mason" <ABBIE23875@prodigy.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bumper Sticker...
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:15:09 -0500
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How about....Get Glassed!

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 08:51:14 1999
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From: "Carol Sulik" <sally4th@prodigy.net>
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Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: gold patina? 
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:42:47 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE5022.B8B607C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am trying to help out a glass shop to make a repair on an angel that =
was brought in. A piece of glass from the the angel's skirt broke when =
the angel fell after the suction cup failed. The angel looks like it has =
been soldered with gold solder.....or patinaed in a bright gold. Do any =
of you have any idea how this was accomplished? They have checked out =
all of their supply catalogs and can't seem to locate anything that =
would work for the repair. I would appreciate any suggestions I could =
forward to them. Thanks


------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE5022.B8B607C0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3612.1700"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am trying to help out a glass shop =
to make a=20
repair on an angel that was brought in. A piece of glass from the the =
angel's=20
skirt broke when the angel fell after the suction cup failed. The angel =
looks=20
like it has been soldered with gold solder.....or patinaed in a bright =
gold. Do=20
any of you have any idea how this was accomplished? They have checked =
out all of=20
their supply catalogs and can't seem to locate anything that would work =
for the=20
repair. I would appreciate any suggestions I could forward to them.=20
Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE5022.B8B607C0--

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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bumper Stickers
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:03:40 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.18340.0>
Precedence: bulk

I'd rather be scoring ..... than snoring! Uh ....Oh here we go again.
LOL



We need bumper stickers. But what should they say?
> 
> "I'd rather be......"
> 
> what?
> 
> 
> "I'd rather be glassing"  ?
> "I'd rether be staining"  ?
> "I'd rather be leading"  ?
> "I'd rather be slumping"  ?
> 
> any ideas?
> 
> 
> Dianne
> Jacksonville, FL
> 


I'd rather be scoring?

Tulsa Suzanne

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 09:21:03 1999
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bumper Stickers and The E tour
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:08:33 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb3.18833.0>
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How about having the stickers made and selling them to the list members to
help finance that
Brit Chick's tour? (seriously)

Or maybe a lemonade stand? (not so serious)
Or maybe we could put on a show Darlene? (even less serious)

This is my brain on bacon grease sandwiches.

Got to get some sleep .  z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 09:25:05 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Glenna Rand <gjr@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:16:11 -0600
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> > "I'd rather be......"
> > 
> > what?
> > 
> > "I'd rather be glassing"  ?
> > "I'd rether be staining"  ?
> > "I'd rather be leading"  ?
> > "I'd rather be slumping"  ?
> 
> Glassers know the "score"
> 


Good one, Glenna!

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 09:51:44 1999
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Subject: rather be scoring
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:18:44 -0500
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References: <<199902040146.UAA01970@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Precedence: bulk

Not "clear" enough unless you are displaying glass.

Glass workers would rather be scoring

Old stained glass workers never die, they just keep on scoring

(Is silly season here yet?)

Dorothy



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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 09:52:20 1999
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From: MD6868@aol.com
To: barbaraelmore@yahoo.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: cutting zinc
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:43:56 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.164356.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

I'm reading this after being away for a few days, and knoowing this group,
you've probably got 20 reply already, but just in case, here goes!

I've recently done several all zinc channel windows, and did cut all of the
came with a hacksaw (now have elec. came saw on order, however!!) I used a
wooden miter box, which I clamped (tightly) to the bench, added some wooden
stock to bring the came up to cutting range, and (I think this is the key to
avoiding collapse) used two strong 
spring scissors type clamps , each places on one side of the cut to be made,
which clamping holds the came tightly against the cutting stop of the miter
box, thereby eliminating any chance of "wiggle". I found that I got good cuts,
(some minor filing needed). At best, however, the hand method is very
frustrating, so I bit the bullet and got the came saw.!!

Richard
Glassics Artglass
Valencia, Ca.
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 10:00:27 1999
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From: "Karen F." <classi@sssnet.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: NG: Bumper Sticker thoughts
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:24:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.32458.0>
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Just humor me. My friends do when I get on one of these "rolls".

"Life is a multicolored Pane."

"Life is a Pane in the Glass"

"I look at life thru multicolored glasses"

"If the pieces fit.....solder them!"


OK. I have that out of my system so now I'll go to work. Thanks for the
therapy this morning fellow Bungians.

Regards,
Karen F.

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 10:23:36 1999
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: FWIW-for what it's worth-
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:48:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.64850.0>
References: <<3.0.32.19990204095311.00a8ed48@mtn.org>>
Organization: @Home Network
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I wrote for some equipment catalogs, now I'm deluged with stuff!!! But
this is a good possibility for metal or glass blasting.

Northern Equipment & Supply.
Burnsville,MN (for shipping info)

1/800-556-7885

http://www.northern-online.com

just now tried the link, it is slow.

Have no contact with this company or info on doing business with it,
but the generators, pressure washers, blasting cabinets, and other
industrial equipment looks pretty good, at least in price. Even some
benders and machine shop stuff.  Blasting cabinets caught my eye as the
glass list has had some inquiry about blasting/etching glass.

Disclaimer (;-) ) I have no experience with them just got a catalog in
the mail.

BTW, sent this to all 3 glass lists, in case you subscribe to more than
one, that's why you got more than one copy.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

Lee Boe
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 10:26:05 1999
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From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:26:24 CST 6CDT
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snip <We need bumper stickers. But what should they say?> snip

The mind runs amok.....

"I'd rather be scoring" is great, but not likely to be appreciated by 
the world at large....how about.....????

"Honk if you love stained glass"

"If you seek beauty, work with stained glass"

"Visualize....stained glass"

"My windows can beat your windows"

                    /\                            _________________          
                  /    \                          \                            /
                /        \                         \   Stained Glass  /
              / Beauty \                        \         on          /
            /      on      \                        \     Board      /
          /      Board    \                         \                /
         /____________\                         \_______/           


"View the world through stained glass"

As I was pondering, Glenna came up with "glassers know the 
score."  Good'un.  Or maybe "glassers know how to score."

Ok, back to work....

Kaye
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X-Path: ipa.net!gecko
From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" <gecko@ipa.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: bumper stickers
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:46:08 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.5468.0>
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I thought this was a cute thread, but I had no plans of posting in reference
to it...
Unfortunately, it appears I'm doing just that.

Glass Artists Do It in the SUNSHINE!

There.
Aren't you all ashamed of yourselves... FORCING me to embarrass myself with
such a shameless post?!
:-))
I'm heading back to lurkdom now.
...Hmmmm... with the lights on?...
no, no... that's not right...
...do it with pliers?... no, I don't think the worlds ready for that one
either....
...with tiny strips of sticky, shiny, copper tape?...
no, but it sounds like fun.... (careful, that stuff's sharp!)

I'll keep working on it.  Thank you for giving me something to occupy my
deviant little mind!
Blake
:-)

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 10:55:09 1999
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Restoration
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:42:29 PST
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Precedence: bulk

Hi folks,

Well I'm finally tackling my second lead experience.  An old panel
I received broken in cluster pieces.  I figured out the pattern,..I think!
All is going not too bad.  Of course if I had a rubbing (which I found out
too late) it would help.
The piece is about 12 1/2" X 35"   Although the original piece was larger,
but some pieces couldn't be salvaged.  I had to reduce the design
somewhat.
I plan on setting it into a wood frame after and returning it to my
neighbors for their anniversary.
They gave the glass to me to see if I could use any of it.  Some other
glass is very old.  Early 1900's
Their 50th is coming in May.  I figure it would be the perfect present.

Any tips from you leaders?


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 11:25:32 1999
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>, "Carol Sulik" <sally4th@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: gold patina? 
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:39:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.83959.0>
Precedence: bulk



Carol,



Sounds like the angel was electro-plated with gold..  That's how the really bright silver and gold finishes are done..  If thats the case you could fix and have it plated again........I think..



Karen





>This is a multi-part message in MIME format..

>

>------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE5022..B8B607C0

>Content-Type: text/plain;

> charset="iso-8859-1"

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

>I am trying to help out a glass shop to make a repair on an angel that =

>was brought in.. A piece of glass from the the angel's skirt broke when =

>the angel fell after the suction cup failed.. The angel looks like it has =

>been soldered with gold solder..........or patinaed in a bright gold.. Do any =

>of you have any idea how this was accomplished? They have checked out =

>all of their supply catalogs and can't seem to locate anything that =

>would work for the repair.. I would appreciate any suggestions I could =

>forward to them.. Thanks

>

>

>------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE5022..B8B607C0

>Content-Type: text/html;

> charset="iso-8859-1"

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">

><HTML>

><HEAD>

>

><META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =

>http-equiv=3DContent-Type>

><META content=3D'"MSHTML 4..72..3612..1700"' name=3DGENERATOR>

></HEAD>

><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>

><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am trying to help out a glass shop =

>to make a=20

>repair on an angel that was brought in.. A piece of glass from the the =

>angel's=20

>skirt broke when the angel fell after the suction cup failed.. The angel =

>looks=20

>like it has been soldered with gold solder..........or patinaed in a bright =

>gold.. Do=20

>any of you have any idea how this was accomplished? They have checked =

>out all of=20

>their supply catalogs and can't seem to locate anything that would work =

>for the=20

>repair.. I would appreciate any suggestions I could forward to them..=20

>Thanks</FONT></DIV>

><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

>

>------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE5022..B8B607C0--

>

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>Archives available at http://www..bungi..com/glass

>



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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 11:56:18 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" <gecko@ipa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:53:37 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.65337.0>
References: <<1999Feb4.5468.0>>
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.....or 

Glass artists keep the lights on

glass artists score with the lights on...(tacky tacky tacky)

real artists are a pane in the glass! (probably more acurate) ;o)
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 12:18:20 1999
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" <gecko@ipa.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: not all
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:58:31 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.25831.0>
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I do it in DARKNESS!

how about glass workers score more!
glass workers love bits and pieces
, Enjoy, H

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 12:23:45 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: gold patina?
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:59:51 -0500
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Sounds like it's been plated.... there's really no such thing as a gold
patina. Even the brass patina available is nothing more than a weak coppe=
r
patina with some added chemicals.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 12:51:19 1999
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To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: glass bumper stickers
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:59:48 -0500
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How about:

I'd rather be scoring than breaking up.

Or for bad days... you have to be cracked to work in glass.

Or here's Michael's contribution:

Want to foil around?

This could get ugly....;-)

Best,

Dani Greer =

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 13:30:33 1999
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From: Kay Frith Allen <fullspec@sunset.net>
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Subject: Circle cutter
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:08:24 -0800
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Hi,
I lost the instructions to my Fletcher small circle cutter and now I need
to cut some 2 inch circles out of mirror.  Will someone please tell me how
to use it?  Thanks a bunch.
Kay
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 13:34:53 1999
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bumper Sticker
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:21:13 -0500
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Hows about...You bet your sweet glass...

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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject:  RE:  gold patina
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:30:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.103043.0>
Precedence: bulk

Carol,

Sounds like the angel was electro-plated with gold. That's how the really
bright silver and gold finishes are done. If thats the case you could fix
and have it plated again....I think.

Karen




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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 14:38:45 1999
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From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: NG bumper stickers
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:05:52 CST 6CDT
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I was surfing bumper stickers to get an idea what they'd cost to 
print and came across quite a few preprinted ones.  Many of them 
were offensive, but I particularly liked these:

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing.

Warning:  dates in calendar are closer than they appear.

Lottery:  a tax on people who are bad with math.

Always remember you're unique--just like everybody else.

Kaye  
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 15:29:23 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Restoration/bumper stickers
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:46:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.114648.0>
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-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:   Dani Greer, =

To:     Glenna Rand, INTERNET:gjr@bungi.com
        =

Date:   2/4/99  1:13 PM

RE:     Restoration/bumper stickers

How about this one:

Old glaziers never die... they just get re-leaded.

Good luck with your project, Glenna... what a nice thing to do for your
neighbors.

You know, somebody really ought to think about printing bumper stickers. =

And, how about some stained glass mousepads and screen saver programs? =

There's an adjunct business-in-the-making here for some enthusiastic
entrepeneur!

Best,

Dani
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 15:31:32 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, <glass@intrastar.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:59:46 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.55946.0>
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How about:

GLASS IS CLASS

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From: "Jak N Wolfy" <rjlcon@ticnet.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:25:28 -0600
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    Please put me on the bungi list.
                                         Thanks,,,,,,,,,,

                                                               Jaknwolfy

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 15:53:04 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Kay Frith Allen <fullspec@sunset.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Circle cutter
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 17:30:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.123012.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19990204120824.006cc1e8@pop3.sunset.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Kay Frith Allen wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I lost the instructions to my Fletcher small circle cutter and now I need
> to cut some 2 inch circles out of mirror.  Will someone please tell me how
> to use it?  Thanks a bunch.
> Kay
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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basically you first need to find the center of the cutter. i did it by
eye, and made a mark on the board. then find your radius, and score..
that was for the lens cutter anyway. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore
From: barbara elmore <barbaraelmore@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: solder:Canfield vs Hirsh?
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:01:25 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.7125.0>
Precedence: bulk


Need opinions on solder.  Have tried lots of bad
brands lately, but really like Canfield.  Have
heard that Hirsh is equally as good. 

Tired of wasting my time and money on brands that aren't melting
clean, have lots of fumes, lumpy
beads, etc. 

Thanks!



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 16:35:26 1999
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!swetinusa
From: Jane Swetman <swetinusa@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: 16" Mold for Lamp
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 16:44:34 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.104434.0>
Precedence: bulk

Has anyone tried making their own mold? Glass Patterns Quarterly has a
lamp in an old ('94) issue that I want to make, and call for a 16"
Odyssey shade (I guess a generic one). Odyssey don't make a 16" shade
without a pattern, so I thought I'd try my hand at making one.

I wondered if anyone has had any success with making their own.

Also, I've also heard that there used to be a company in the Chicago
that rented the Odyssey molds but they've gone out of business
(Aurora?). Does anyone know of a place where they can be rented? 



Jane in S.W. Suburbs/Chicago''
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 17:36:03 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!bdudack
From: "Brian Dudack" <bdudack@mediaone.net>
To: <Yegnim@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:09:45 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.12945.0>
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Yes your probably right and who needs all that attention anyway
-----Original Message-----
From: Yegnim@aol.com <Yegnim@aol.com>
To: bdudack@mediaone.net <bdudack@mediaone.net>; glass@bungi.com
<glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass


>Cathi,
>My favorite is scoring also.  However, unless you wish to attract men who
are
>just interested in having sex with you, I think that scoring (by itself)
would
>not express your true interest.  "I'd rather be scoring (glass)" or "I'd
>rather be scoring glass" would be much safer.  Unless you want to hear
honking
>and wonder what the commotion is about when you pass trucks and cars on the
>highway!!!  <BG>
>Lenore
>
>
>

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 17:42:53 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!bdudack
From: "Brian Dudack" <bdudack@mediaone.net>
To: "Glenna Rand" <gjr@bungi.com>, <PDRUSS@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:14:33 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.121433.0>
Precedence: bulk

that's cute to
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenna Rand <gjr@bungi.com>
To: PDRUSS@aol.com <PDRUSS@aol.com>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass


>[In the message entitled "Re: glass racks/transporting glass" on Feb  3,
19:09, PDRUSS@aol.com writes:]
>
>>
>> We need bumper stickers. But what should they say?
>>
>> "I'd rather be......"
>>
>> what?
>>
>> "I'd rather be glassing"  ?
>> "I'd rether be staining"  ?
>> "I'd rather be leading"  ?
>> "I'd rather be slumping"  ?
>
>Glassers know the "score"
>
>
>--
>Glenna Rand
>gjr@bungi.com
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 18:01:07 1999
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From: "Brian Dudack" <bdudack@mediaone.net>
To: "Family Account" <shad@mail2.nai.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: rather be scoring
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:15:59 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.121559.0>
Precedence: bulk

good one
-----Original Message-----
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 12:09 PM
Subject: rather be scoring


>Not "clear" enough unless you are displaying glass.
>
>Glass workers would rather be scoring
>
>Old stained glass workers never die, they just keep on scoring
>
>(Is silly season here yet?)
>
>Dorothy
>
>
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 18:01:26 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: bumper stickers
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:27:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.15273.0>
Precedence: bulk

Here's another one:

Real glass artists get the lead out.

Compliments of my husband... you think he's trying to tell me something??=
 =

Now, keep in mind, he doesn't use computers; I have a brand new one.  Wha=
t
does that tell you?

Best regards ;-)  =


Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & STudios
www.igga.org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 18:15:41 1999
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From: "Brian Dudack" <bdudack@mediaone.net>
To: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:19:39 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.121939.0>
Precedence: bulk

I think this one wins
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob E Duchesneau <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>; glass@intrastar.net <glass@intrastar.net>
Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: bumper stickers


>How about:
>
>GLASS IS CLASS
>
>Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
>Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net
>
>----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 18:19:11 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: barbara elmore <barbaraelmore@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: solder:Canfield vs Hirsh?
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:25:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.14258.0>
References: <<1999Feb4.7125.0>>
Precedence: bulk

barbara elmore wrote:
> 
> Need opinions on solder.  Have tried lots of bad
> brands lately, but really like Canfield.  Have
> heard that Hirsh is equally as good.
> 
> Tired of wasting my time and money on brands that aren't melting
> clean, have lots of fumes, lumpy
> beads, etc.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


solder i use and like are canfield, willard, and i think there is one
more.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 18:21:52 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:26:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.152650.0>
Precedence: bulk

How about this one:

Glass Lass with Class

Inspired by Bob's last post.

Best ;-)

Dani
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 18:31:40 1999
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X-Path: teleport.com!dro
From: Daniel <dro@teleport.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:03:30 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.2330.0>
References: <<199902041727.LAA21129@relay.acns.nwu.edu>>
Precedence: bulk

Oh.......you people are fantastic....

..........if we are that creative with words...it's no wonder...

the contest entries are special...:)

Somebody remind me to vote...sigh...

......the PAIN.....oh the pain....

I Got Linux half installed on my laptop...and I'm revamping my
linux/cum winnt/ cum win98.......box....I'm up to my ears in email..
I HAVE to get a project done before Saturday...

I've got to bake bread tomorrow....and the cat needs a rabies shot...

How do you people with kids do it??

A Chinese pug and siamese is too much for me...



=============================================================


I can't say which bumper sticker I like the best...

but THESE are the creme' de la creme'

I think EVERYONE who entered the contest should be given their choice
of bumper stickers....or...if you want...

send me a blank shirt...and I'll print you up a nice shirt on my
trusty bubble jet printer with the slogan of your choice....and the 
iron on jobbies....ahhhhhhhhh...

the mind boggles...umm......bangles...er...bugles...(how do you spell 
bugle??)...


Later...


======================================================



"Honk if you love stained glass"

"Visualize....stained glass"

"My windows can beat your windows"    <<<<<this one is classic....

Glass Artists Do It in the SUNSHINE!

real artists are a pane in the glass!

glass workers score more!

I'd rather be scoring than breaking up.<<<<<<<<<<<<<a very nice inside
joke.

Old glaziers never die... they just get re-leaded.

(how about old glaziers never die...they just get rehung...:)..ahem...)





Daniel in Oregon
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 19:03:02 1999
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From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Grinder and Bits
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:11:54 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.11154.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone :-)

I am working on my 1st project (without an instructor) and have a couple of
questions.  The project is a suncatcher--bird/flowers --and I want to solder
it to a brass ring (6 inches)  How do I do that?  Do I wrap copper around the
ring and tin it or will the solder stick to the brass?

How long does a grinder bit last?

Is it OK to leave the water and coolant in the grinder for several days or do
I have to clean it out every day?  The second day I went into the shop there
was a film covering the  top of the water.  Was that the coolant?

Thanks for the help in advance 

Shirley G
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 19:40:19 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Jane Swetman <swetinusa@worldnet.att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: 16" Mold for Lamp
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:40:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.164041.0>
References: <<1999Feb4.104434.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Jane Swetman wrote:
> 
> Has anyone tried making their own mold? Glass Patterns Quarterly has a
> lamp in an old ('94) issue that I want to make, and call for a 16"
> Odyssey shade (I guess a generic one). Odyssey don't make a 16" shade
> without a pattern, so I thought I'd try my hand at making one.
> 
> I wondered if anyone has had any success with making their own.
> 
> Also, I've also heard that there used to be a company in the Chicago
> that rented the Odyssey molds but they've gone out of business
> (Aurora?). Does anyone know of a place where they can be rented?
> 
> Jane in S.W. Suburbs/Chicago''
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the pattern they used would be for that particular mold. making your own
may not work with that pattern.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 20:07:47 1999
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To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:41:04 -0500
Message-ID: <199902050241.VAA00799@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

2/4/99 8:27 PM Dani Greer GreerStudios@compuserve.com

>Here's another one:
>
>Real glass artists get the lead out.

Or how about - Real glass artists lead their heart out???

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 21:03:28 1999
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X-Path: teleport.com!dro
From: Daniel <dro@teleport.com>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 04:20:54 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.42054.0>
References: <<1999Feb4.152650.0>>
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Dani Greer wrote:
> 
> How about this one:
> 
> Glass Lass with Class
> 
> Inspired by Bob's last post.
> 
> Best ;-)
> 
> Dani
===========================================================


Yep...that made me stop and thunk fer a minute...

And I've got something working with....

		lead free gas....	

			nolead free glass...
				
				hmmmmmmmmmm...ouch I tickled myself...

Daniel in Oregon


-- 
Philosophy:  A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.
-- Ambrose Bierce
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 21:41:19 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland
From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: NG slogans.....
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:38:03 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.4383.0>
Precedence: bulk

heres a couple....you can pick your own category:

"snaps under pressure"
"on the cutting edge"
"grinds with the best of 'em"
"%$&#, foiled again!"


and my personal favorite:
drumroll please:
"Leaded be"    (John Lennon would approve....)

Maureen
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 22:05:13 1999
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From: "SandyJoh" <SandyJoh@ix.netcom.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: bumper stickers
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:26:58 -0600
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I think ya'll been sniffin' too much solder lately! (course, that's a =
pre-req for joining this group, isn't it?!)

OK - I'm enjoying the really bad humor you're coming up with ;-0

I think we all need to get a life!


------=_NextPart_000_019F_01BE5095.DBD87DA0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I think ya'll been sniffin' too much =
solder=20
lately! (course, that's a pre-req for joining this group, isn't=20
it?!)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>OK - I'm enjoying the really bad =
humor you're=20
coming up with ;-0</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I think we all need to get a =
life!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 22:35:49 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Mosfunland@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: NG slogans.....
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 23:57:09 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.17579.0>
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Mosfunland@aol.com wrote:
> 
> heres a couple....you can pick your own category:
> 
> "snaps under pressure"
> "on the cutting edge"
> "grinds with the best of 'em"
> "%$&#, foiled again!"
> 
> and my personal favorite:
> drumroll please:
> "Leaded be"    (John Lennon would approve....)
> 
> Maureen


YEA Maureen!!!!  Good ones.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 23:07:40 1999
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: fullspec@sunset.net
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Circle cutter
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 01:27:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.202714.0>
Precedence: bulk

Kay,

If you look closely at the side of the rod that holds the cutter turret,
(the rod that the set screw locks onto) you'll see that it has
measurements marked on it.  Just set the size you want so that it lines
up with the flat side of the setscrew housing and lock the turret in
place.  Test your size setting by putting a sheet of stiff paper into the
cutter, press down on the handle and crank the handle around to score the
paper.  Measure to see if this is the correct size.  If it is not, adjust
it a bit and try again.

Now put a dab of oil on the cutting turret to lubricate it and place your
glass onto the cutting stage.  Push the turret handle down lightly to see
that you have lined the cutter up well to give a bit more than 1/4" of
scrap all the way around your circle.  In fact it is easiest if you cut
the glass into squares first.  For a 2" circle cut 2 1/2" or slightly
larger squares.  After you are sure that the glass is in the right place
for scoring, push the turret handle down firmly and crank it around in
one complete circle applying firm even pressure but not extreme pressure.
 Do not go around more than once.

Remove the scored glass from the stage and use your pliers to "open" the
score line all the way around.  Make relief scores and break the circle
out.  For more detail on the breaking out and relief lines find the
circle cutting tutorial on my web site at www.dodgestudio.com


Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com



On Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:08:24 -0800 Kay Frith Allen <fullspec@sunset.net>
writes:
>Hi,
>I lost the instructions to my Fletcher small circle cutter and now I 
>need
>to cut some 2 inch circles out of mirror.  Will someone please tell me 
>how
>to use it?  Thanks a bunch.
>Kay
>

Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 23:23:52 1999
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From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: SGriffiSBG@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Grinder and Bits
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 01:17:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.201738.0>
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>Hi everyone :-)
>
>I am working on my 1st project (without an instructor) and have a 
>couple of
>questions.  The project is a suncatcher--bird/flowers --and I want to 
>solder
>it to a brass ring (6 inches)  How do I do that?  Do I wrap copper 
>around the
>ring and tin it or will the solder stick to the brass?

Yes, Solder will just stick to the brass.  If the brass is very thick and
your iron is under powered you may have to heat the brass quite a while
to get the solder to run, but otherwise there should be no complications.


>
>How long does a grinder bit last?


This one depends a whole lot on how much you grind AND ON WHAT BRAND
YOU'RE USING.  A Glastar bit lasts at least six months to a year here in
the studio and they are used by the students too.  Another factor is how
patient you are.  Grinder bits rarely die a catastrophic death.  
They just work slower and slower until your patience wears out.  Don't
forget that you can slide the head up or down to expose new grinding
surfaces.


>Is it OK to leave the water and coolant in the grinder for several 
>days or do
>I have to clean it out every day?  The second day I went into the shop 
>there
>was a film covering the  top of the water.  Was that the coolant?


The film is more likely oils from your hands and cutting oil residue,
unknown substances from the surface of the glass, etc.  Some people clean
their grinders daily.  We clean ours when the glass dust fills it to the
point that we can't put water in anymore.  This is not however the best
way to prolong your head life and may increase your chances of being
"attacked" by mold spores or other noxious buggies.


>
>Thanks for the help in advance 
>
>Shirley G
>----
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>

Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 23:31:49 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: BOBDU@prodigy.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 01:37:14 EST
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In a message dated 2/4/99 3:43:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, BOBDU@prodigy.net
writes:

<< GLASS IS CLASS >>

I like it.
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  4 23:45:46 1999
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Mosfunland@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: NG slogans.....
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 01:35:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.203536.0>
References: <<1999Feb5.4383.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

For the hot glass bunch-

Torched. 

Mosfunland@aol.com wrote:
> 
> heres a couple....you can pick your own category:
> 
> "snaps under pressure"
> "on the cutting edge"
> "grinds with the best of 'em"
> "%$&#, foiled again!"
> 
> and my personal favorite:
> drumroll please:
> "Leaded be"    (John Lennon would approve....)
> 
> Maureen
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 01:02:35 1999
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Jane Swetman" <swetinusa@worldnet.att.net>, "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: 16" Mold for Lamp
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:29:43 -0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.72943.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Jane

You're brave! Should be interesting!

I know someone who said he would turn wooden molds for me but I haven't
taken him up on it. LCT used wood.

The first table lamp I made I used the glass bowl from the front of an old
washing machine - working inside with found beach glass. Not fun with
different thicknesses, curves and it kept skidding around! I did it inside
to keep the external surface level. Many lessons there. A precious lamp
now - it lives on my wifes bedside table. We found the glass together
walking on lots of beaches.

I have made shades using Odessy molds and made the pattern up as I went
along. I just ignored the existing incised markings. You need to be careful
that you don't evolve differences as you progress around otherwise it will
show when you meet up. So I found that it was best to start at the top and
work evenly down rather than just around.

Good luck and I'd love to know how you make out!


BtB




>Has anyone tried making their own mold? Glass Patterns Quarterly has a
>lamp in an old ('94) issue that I want to make, and call for a 16"
>Odyssey shade (I guess a generic one). Odyssey don't make a 16" shade
>without a pattern, so I thought I'd try my hand at making one.
>
>I wondered if anyone has had any success with making their own.
>
>Also, I've also heard that there used to be a company in the Chicago
>that rented the Odyssey molds but they've gone out of business
>(Aurora?). Does anyone know of a place where they can be rented?
>
>
>
>Jane in S.W. Suburbs/Chicago''





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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 01:22:40 1999
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Bumper Sticker...
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:02:59 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.18259.0>
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>How about....Get Glassed!

or ....

Glassified

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 01:32:29 1999
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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Bumper Sticker
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:10:30 +0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.181030.0>
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>Hows about...You bet your sweet glass...

or ......
A Glass of It's Own

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 02:34:18 1999
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X-Path: ictc.com!bankers
From: "Dale Bentley" <bankers@ictc.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 03:48:55 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb4.214855.0>
Precedence: bulk

Bumpersnickers!  I love it.

Okay it's late... and I should be in bed, but I guess the need for public
humiliation is even stronger.... I am sure I will regret this tomorrow!
But, here goes..... How about?

"Get your Glass in Gear!"

"Lead, Foil, or get out of the way!"

"My other car is a Kiln"

"Don't laugh, I spend my $$$ on Glass."

"Aw flux, foiled again!"

"To bead, or not to bead"  (Shakespeare)

"Keep your glass to the grindstone"

"Oh, Frit...blasted again!"

"Use Came, or Foil, Then Solder"  (Caesar said it best! I came, I saw.. well
you know)

"Working my Glass Off!"  (has a double meaning)

"You have got to be fidding?"  (Now I am killing myself!!!  LOL)

"Grozing in the Glass"  song - (Grazing in the grass)

"Got Glass?"  (and we could all have little glass moustaches)

"Super cooled liquid manipulator"  (okay, a little on the egghead side)

"Heart of Glass"  (Blondie's back you know?)




Gee, I wonder if anyone is collecting all these moments of shear genius!


Oh, good.... now I have that out of my system!

Dale Bentley




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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 04:00:52 1999
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'SandyJoh'" <SandyJoh@ix.netcom.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: NG HTLM jibberish
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:16:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.11644.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sandy,

Your messages are getting to me in Htlm format. Anyone else recieving them 
this way? You can go to your preferences and choose to send them as 
something other that htlm and all the jibberish won't dome across.

Thanks,

Linda

-----Original Message-----
From:	SandyJoh [SMTP:SandyJoh@ix.netcom.com]
Sent:	Friday, February 05, 1999 12:27 AM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	bumper stickers

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_019F_01BE5095.DBD87DA0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I think ya'll been sniffin' too much solder lately! (course, that's a =
pre-req for joining this group, isn't it?!)

OK - I'm enjoying the really bad humor you're coming up with ;-0

I think we all need to get a life!


------=_NextPart_000_019F_01BE5095.DBD87DA0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I think ya'll been sniffin' too much =
solder=20
lately! (course, that's a pre-req for joining this group, isn't=20
it?!)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>OK - I'm enjoying the really bad =
humor you're=20
coming up with ;-0</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I think we all need to get a =
life!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_019F_01BE5095.DBD87DA0--

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 04:32:24 1999
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From: Kathy <khupp@citynet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Weller address
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 07:06:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.2630.0>
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Does anybody have an e-mail, or snail mail address for Weller? I was
bragging on my iron a while back and broke it yesterday, getting the tip
out. I'd like to send it in for repair. I must have broken the heat
connections or something. Regardless, the thing won't heat. So far, I
can't find them on the Web, just places selling them.

Thanks!!

Kathy

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 05:30:53 1999
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From: maruca@netaxs.com
To: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: NG HTLM jibberish
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:57:16 -0500 (EST)
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On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Linda Campbell wrote:


> 
> Your messages are getting to me in Htlm format. Anyone else recieving them 
> this way? You can go to your preferences and choose to send them as 
> something other that htlm and all the jibberish won't dome across.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Linda
> 

Linda is right! In memory of Bob the Dinosaur, who beat on this drum
loudly and often, let us all post in PLAIN TEXT!

thx
m


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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 05:41:45 1999
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Kathy'" <khupp@citynet.net>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Weller address
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:03:19 -0500
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Weller is Cooper Weller Tools:

Cooper Hand Tools, Div. of CooperIndustries
        3535 Glenwood Ave.
        Raleigh, NC 27612 USA
        Tel: 919-781-7200
        Product Description:
        Tools, Torches, Chains, Soldering Iron Stands, Chain Assemblies.

I sent in a 100W a year or tow ago and they told me they don't repair them 
(or at least what ever it was wrong with mine- I think is was one of those 
little electronic gismos). They did give me a really good deal on a new 
one. I forget, I think I paid $54 for a $79 iron. Turns out they sent me 
two and being the honest person that I am, I offered to pay for the second 
or they could have someone pick it up. They let me have it for the same 
price as the first. I was pleased with their customer support even tho they 
wouldn't repair the iron.

Linda Campbell

Kathy said

 Does anybody have an e-mail, or snail mail address for Weller? I was
bragging on my iron a while back and broke it yesterday, getting the tip
out. I'd like to send it in for repair. I must have broken the heat
connections or something. Regardless, the thing won't heat. So far, I
can't find them on the Web, just places selling them.

Thanks!!

Kathy


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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 05:51:59 1999
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From: "Evelyn C Mason" <ABBIE23875@prodigy.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: yeah for J Lennon
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:04:16 -0500
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                    I like....Leaded be!    Get the lead out!      To score
or not to score!         All are really worth a chuckle.... and a round of
applause and mainly, I think we all need a "Break". We gotta get some sleep
or something......

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 06:00:33 1999
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Subject: Re: NG slogans.....
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:18:40 -0500
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2/4/99 11:38 PM Mosfunland@aol.com Mosfunland@aol.com

>
>and my personal favorite:
>drumroll please:
>"Leaded be"    (John Lennon would approve....)
>
>Maureen

I really like your personal fav, Maureen!
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 06:15:50 1999
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From: Luanne6556@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Weller address
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:23:41 EST
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       WELLER SNAIL MAIL ADDRESS:
                      Weller Division of Cooper Industries
                           815 State Road
                         Cheraw, S.C.   29520
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 06:30:27 1999
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Kathy'" <khupp@citynet.net>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Weller address PS
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:28:15 -0500
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PS.

http://www.coopertools.com/index.html

 For the Tim the Toolman folks out there, the site has lots on line art 
clipart of tools. Maybe you'd like to incorporate some into your stained 
glass panel or perhaps you needed a pic of horseshoe nails for your on line 
catalog. This place has got the pics in pdf format.

Linda
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 06:32:51 1999
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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:31:34 EST
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In a message dated 2/4/99 1:27:20 PM, kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU wrote:

>"Honk if you love stained glass"
>
>"If you seek beauty, work with stained glass"
>
>"Visualize....stained glass"
>
>"My windows can beat your windows"

Ever since my first stint working for Christie, when I got attacked by some
Very Mean Nasty Splintery Red Cathedral, I keep threatening to have some T-
shirts made up saying (in red letters, of course!):

	GIVE BLOOD
	become a stained-glass artist


Sparks, type B+
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 07:02:42 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: SGriffiSBG@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Grinder and Bits
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:31:36 -0500
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SGriffiSBG@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone :-)
> 
> I am working on my 1st project (without an instructor) and have a couple of
> questions.  The project is a suncatcher--bird/flowers --and I want to solder
> it to a brass ring (6 inches)  How do I do that?  Do I wrap copper around the
> ring and tin it or will the solder stick to the brass?
> 
> How long does a grinder bit last?
> 
> Is it OK to leave the water and coolant in the grinder for several days or do
> I have to clean it out every day?  The second day I went into the shop there
> was a film covering the  top of the water.  Was that the coolant?
> 
> Thanks for the help in advance
> 
> Shirley G
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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the solder will alaways stick to other solder, copper, and brass. but
steel wool the brass first.

a grinder bit should last for a pretty long time, as long as you don't
abuse it. keep water in it (enough so that when you turn it on some
water swishes out. (out as in above the surface around th bit
, and not overflowing from the grinder). i use my bit's alot, and it
still takes about a year of constant use for me to want to replace the
bit. 

the water can be left in, forever. except maybe for the twin spin
grinder, the disc tends to rust. the scum is most likely coolant, glass
dust, and plain dust. nothing to worry about. every so often you should
clean the grinder though.

---Mike Savad
 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 07:21:01 1999
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From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:30:22 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.143022.0>
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Hi all!

I feel I am ready to make my first stepping stone and am not sure which method
to use. I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over the
glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and
applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer? 

What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be
greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make my
first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I
begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters!

Thanks!
Laura P

PS - Here's my bumpersticker input:   "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!"
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 07:30:44 1999
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X-Path: hotmail.com!glassinmd
From: "Jeanne K" <glassinmd@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Bevel Max
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 06:28:13 PST
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.142813.0>
Precedence: bulk

Has anyone tried the bevel max for the repair of straight line bevels.  
I have about 10 to re-bevel one side on and was wondering if this was 
worth the money (does it work or not)


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 07:46:22 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Kathy <khupp@citynet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Weller address
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:38:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.43841.0>
References: <<1999Feb5.2630.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Kathy wrote:
> 
> Does anybody have an e-mail, or snail mail address for Weller? I was
> bragging on my iron a while back and broke it yesterday, getting the tip
> out. I'd like to send it in for repair. I must have broken the heat
> connections or something. Regardless, the thing won't heat. So far, I
> can't find them on the Web, just places selling them.
> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> Kathy
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


if i'm not mistaken i think cooper tools owns weller and you have to
contact them. i think it's just cooperstools.com or coopers-tools.com or
something like that.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 08:03:34 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: questions from Shirley G
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:25:12 -0500
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Message text written by Shirley G:
>The project is a suncatcher--bird/flowers --and I want to solder
it to a brass ring (6 inches)  How do I do that?  Do I wrap copper around=

the
ring and tin it or will the solder stick to the brass?>

You can solder directly to the brass ring.  But you will need to
heat up the brass ring first, as it is a larger heat sink than your
copper-foil suncatcher's solder lines.  So place your soldering
iron on the brass ring at the point where you want the suncatcher
attached, and crank it up to high.  Make sure to flux the point on
the brass ring.  When the solder flows onto the ring, then solder
the suncatcher to it.

<How long does a grinder bit last?>

Depends on the manufacturer of the bit, and how much you use
it.  The only way to tell is when you notice a significant increase
in the time it takes you to grind, then it's time to change bits.

<Is it OK to leave the water and coolant in the grinder for several days =
or
do
I have to clean it out every day?  The second day I went into the shop
there
was a film covering the  top of the water.  Was that the coolant?<

I don't use coolant, so I can't answer the last question.  But you
can leave water in the grinder's well for several days.  However,
I clean mine out after each project.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 08:30:47 1999
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: HiimLaura@aol.com, glass
Subject: Re: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:45:16 PST
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Precedence: bulk

[In the message entitled "First Stepping Stone need advice" on Feb  5,  9:30, HiimLaura@aol.com writes:]

> I feel I am ready to make my first stepping stone and am not sure which method
> to use. I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over the
> glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and
> applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer? 
> 
> What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be
> greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make my
> first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I
> begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters!
> 

I have made serval stepping stones using diamondcrete and a mold
that had glass laid in it.  I have had quite good results.


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 08:51:33 1999
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From: SKDJ@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: marking glass
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:49:19 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.154919.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi.  I just purchased a glass saw.  I have found out that marking with a
permanent Sharpee doesn't work, the water washes it off of the glass.  Any
suggestions?  Thanks.  Sherry
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 09:01:05 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: HiimLaura@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:56:41 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.35641.0>
References: <<1999Feb5.143022.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Laura.

I'm not an expert, but I make really pretty stones.

I learned the concrete part from a decorative concrete guy.

I use white portland cement, *very* fine light clean sand, and
industrial blast sand.  White portland cost about $14 a bag as opposed
to $5 for gray...but the difference in finished product is well worth
the extra money.

I buy my sand from my decorative concrete guy.  The sand I find at home
depot, Lowes etc.... is nasty in comparison.  Makes a big difference in
the stone.

I use a pretty wet mix, opposite of what most sg people will tell you...
my finished stones look more like marble than concrete though...so it
depends on the look you want.

I also add stealth fiber to my concrete, as recommended by my concrete
guy. I use a professional mold release called 880, dont know the
manufacturer, but I am sure with a few phone calls you could find
some...it is wonderful stuff and it also does a great job cleaning and 
*seasoning your molds. (kind of like a cast iron skillet)

I would be happy to show you some pics of my stones.  Also, if you are
interested, more detailed directions of how I do it.

Tulsa Suzanne
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X-Path: detroit.freenet.org!ae479
From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: prairie lamps
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:57:47 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199902051657.LAA10030@detroit.freenet.org>
Precedence: bulk



Appreciate the input on vase caps and spiders.  Using the spider was
an idea one of the group came up with and thought I would run it 
by you. We plan to reinforce the top and bottom with wire.

Guess we will stick to vase caps for these small lamps. I personally
prefer the spiders for larger hanging lamps and appreciate the tip
re lining up the cap and spider with a dowel.

Thanks to all.
  


Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Dale Bentley <bankers@ictc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:40:34 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.04034.0>
References: <<1999Feb4.214855.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
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from my non glass working husband:

"stained glass, the first cut is the deepest"
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: SKDJ@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: marking glass
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 11:15:25 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.51525.0>
References: <<1999Feb5.154919.0>>
Precedence: bulk

SKDJ@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi.  I just purchased a glass saw.  I have found out that marking with a
> permanent Sharpee doesn't work, the water washes it off of the glass.  Any
> suggestions?  Thanks.  Sherry

I just rub a very small amount of vaseline over my lines.
Same on the grinder.  Although, I dont need to with iridized glass or
some reason.

I mark on darker glass, and glasses with alot happening in them like
youghiogheny with a white pen called PM-41 Brite-Mark White, made by
Mark-Tex Corp. in Englewood, NJ.  It makes a much more distinct line,
much easier to see.  AND, it doesnt wash off easily.  Comes off easy
when I was scrub it off with a green scrubby, but you dont have to scrub
hard.
I think my eyes are aging, and gonna need some glasses soon for the
first time in my life!

BTW, did you know being 40 suddenly explains everything to a Dr?
Starting me drive me crazy! ;o)
They say, "how old are you again?"  I say 40...they say.. "AAAAhhhhh
that explains it!"

Tulsa Suzanne
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 08:56:45 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.05645.0>
References: <<1999Feb4.55946.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
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How about Foiled again!!
Shirley B
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X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald
From: "Kathe R. Mc Donald" <krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu>
To: "'SKDJ@aol.com'" <SKDJ@aol.com>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: marking glass
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:24:46 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.32446.0>
Organization: SOM - Office of Curricular Support
Precedence: bulk

Those gold marking pens work great--"Pilot Gold Marker".

-----Original Message-----
From:	SKDJ@aol.com [SMTP:SKDJ@aol.com]
Sent:	Friday, February 05, 1999 9:49 AM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	marking glass

Hi.  I just purchased a glass saw.  I have found out that marking with a
permanent Sharpee doesn't work, the water washes it off of the glass.  Any
suggestions?  Thanks.  Sherry
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 13:04:21 1999
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Brian Dudack <bdudack@mediaone.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:37:34 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.13734.0>
References: <<1999Feb3.1532.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Cathie:  You get my vote!  Peggy




On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Brian Dudack wrote:

> How about
> 
> I'd rather be scoring
> 
> Cathie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PDRUSS@aol.com <PDRUSS@aol.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 7:43 PM
> Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass
> 
> 
> >In a message dated 2/2/99 3:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> >seaspray@mail.island.net writes:
> >
> ><< .waiting hours in a
> > parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to
> > orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism
> during
> > the 2 hour ferry ride?  >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >We need bumper stickers. But what should they say?
> >
> >"I'd rather be......"
> >
> >what?
> >
> >
> >"I'd rather be glassing"  ?
> >"I'd rether be staining"  ?
> >"I'd rather be leading"  ?
> >"I'd rather be slumping"  ?
> >
> >any ideas?
> >
> >
> >Dianne
> >Jacksonville, FL
> >
> >----
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> >
> 
> ----
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> 

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 13:05:21 1999
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: SKDJ@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: marking glass
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 13:14:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.81432.0>
References: <<1999Feb5.154919.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Chap stick!!  Or any non-scented lipbalm. Draw your lines, then go over
the lines with the full width chapstick.  The lines will not 'float' off
in the saw, and then it washes off easy with dishwashing liquid. 
Cheaper than the commercial stuff for this, can't remember what its
called.

Lee Boe 

SKDJ@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi.  I just purchased a glass saw.  I have found out that marking with a
> permanent Sharpee doesn't work, the water washes it off of the glass.  Any
> suggestions?  Thanks.  Sherry
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 13:07:50 1999
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X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig
From: Diane W Manchester <tifstyorig@juno.com>
To: HiimLaura@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:27:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.72723.0>
Precedence: bulk

Our very own Daniel German (sp?) has a great new site up called "nGlass"
and there is an article from Pamela on doing stepping stones using the
mosaic method.  It's very informative and will give you the steps and a
materials list.  Go to the following page to check it out and scroll down
to "Stained Glass Stepping Stones".

http://aries27.uwaterloo.ca/nglass/index.html

Have fun!

Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
Carthage, NC
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 13:28:27 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:03:17 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.6317.0>
References: <<1999Feb6.04034.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> from my non glass working husband:
> 
> "stained glass, the first cut is the deepest"
> ----

Ain't that the truth...then we *try* to be more careful! ;o)

Sounds like he has helped stop the bleeding!

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 13:30:25 1999
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: NG slogans.....
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:23:12 +0000
Message-ID: <199902051834.SAA02085@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

How about spomething from the Good Book.....?

..... and leaded be Light.
And God saw of was good.
........

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


Maureen wrote:
and my personal favorite:
drumroll please:
"Leaded be"    (John Lennon would approve....)

----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 13:37:03 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  questions from Shirley G
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:17:06 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.19176.0>
Precedence: bulk


A coupla daze ago, Shirley G's enquiring mind wanted to know:

>Is it OK to leave the water and coolant in the grinder for several days 
>or do I have to clean it out every day?

You can leave the water in the grinder, but several of our fellow bungians can
tell you that it's a very good idea to remove the grinder bit after every use,
so it doesn't get stuck on the shaft due to corrosion.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 13:37:36 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  solder:Canfield vs Hirsh?
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:17:11 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.191711.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 2/4/99 8:13:51 PM, barbaraelmore@yahoo.com wrote:

>Need opinions on solder.  Have tried lots of bad
>brands lately, but really like Canfield.  Have
>heard that Hirsh is equally as good. 

Never used Hirsh, but have used Canfield, it works fine. Mostly I use Fry.
Haven't had any problems with it.


Sparks
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Dale Bentley" <bankers@ictc.com>, Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:32:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.93237.0>
Precedence: bulk

Tooooo good, Dale!!  We oughta keep you up late more often!
I can see Patrick already in a glass moustache to match his glass
tutu!  And thanks to Shakeel, I'm going to call my student hand-outs
"Glassifed Information"!  They'll love it.  I, too, hope someone is keepi=
ng
track of all these gems.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" <Witchdoc3@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:32:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.93243.0>
Precedence: bulk

Another good one, Sparks!  Here's another
one from Mike:

Stained Glass Artists - a cut above the rest.

And who said we needed a "break"... that really "cracked"
me up!

I hope somebody's keeping track of these bumpersnickers....

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 14:07:29 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!SKDJ
From: SKDJ@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Thanks
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:47:41 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.204741.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thank you all who answered my question about my lines washing off with the
glass saw.  I think the idea of rubbing chapstick over the line before cutting
is the best.  I really enjoy being on this list.  I have learned a lot just in
the short time I have been on it.    Sherry
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 14:30:54 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Stepping stone  info 
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 14:54:31 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.85431.0>
Precedence: bulk

Wow...there is **alot** of interest in stepping stones.
You guys really need to send in bios! ;o)
There's a plug for ya Patrick!!  I have seen lots of names I have never
seen before.

I am working on typing up some information offline.  When I can get it
finished I will post it on bungi instead of individual emails.  Then if
you want to email me privately with any questions, fine by me.

Sorry for not emailing you each individually right now, but time to pick
up my daughter from school, and my 2 yr old is building a castle
currently with my canned goods.  Hope those poor toes survive!

Oh..we are also going to the Dollar store! My son says he needs more
dollars! :o)  I told him meeeeeee too!

Hopefully I can post it before tonight.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 14:38:59 1999
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X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore
From: barbara elmore <barbaraelmore@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: demo Taurus II Saw?
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:01:18 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.5118.0>
Precedence: bulk


Live in Western North Carolina, and would like
to demo the Taurus II saw before I buy.  Does anyone
know of any dealers in my area (even southern VA,
northern SC, etc) that sell?

Can't find Gemini Saw Co listing on web, or would
call them and find out dealers.

Thanks!



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 14:44:55 1999
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Kay Frith Allen <fullspec@sunset.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Circle cutter
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:04:02 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.542.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19990204120824.006cc1e8@pop3.sunset.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Kay:  Your circle cutter should have a gauge showing the size of the
circle...set your gauge to the desired diameter and check it using clear
glass.  Make your adjustments accordingly.  Peggy

On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Kay Frith Allen wrote:

> Hi,
> I lost the instructions to my Fletcher small circle cutter and now I need
> to cut some 2 inch circles out of mirror.  Will someone please tell me how
> to use it?  Thanks a bunch.
> Kay
> ----
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> 

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 14:47:10 1999
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:04:51 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.5451.0>
References: <<001401be5089$ae9b2f60$7b669cd1@default>>
Precedence: bulk

I change my vote to this.  Peggy

On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Bob E Duchesneau wrote:

> How about:
> 
> GLASS IS CLASS
> 
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net
> 
> 

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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Lettering
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 16:43:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.114311.0>
Precedence: bulk

Had to come up with lettering for a project....I did up the lettering in
Photoshop, saved as bitmap, used as background to make a pattern in
Glass Eye, used Glass Eye to distort it slightly...make taller.  It was
quick.  Of course, I have to finish the rest of the details, now.

I suppose you could do some interesting distortions in Photoshop before
saving, too....

Dorothy







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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 15:31:20 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Jeanne K <glassinmd@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bevel Max
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:22:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.12221.0>
References: <<1999Feb5.142813.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Jeanne K wrote:
> 
> Has anyone tried the bevel max for the repair of straight line bevels.
> I have about 10 to re-bevel one side on and was wondering if this was
> worth the money (does it work or not)
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> ----
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the wheel is only about 8" wide, so only small bevels can be made. i
have it. the instructions stunk, my glass is badly scratched. the snad
paper disks explode is you get the slightext nick on them (which is way
to easy). and the felt tends to burn when you polish it. the new conical
disks look like there a better quality (it's for inside curves). i'm
kind of sorry i got mine...

---Mike Savad

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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 15:31:43 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim
From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Circle cutter
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:18:14 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.221814.0>
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Kay,
I have an instruction sheet from the company who makes the circle cutter.  If
you want, I could copy it and snail mail it to you.  If interested, send your
snail mail address.    Lenore
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 15:47:32 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: SKDJ@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: marking glass
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:23:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.12236.0>
References: <<1999Feb5.154919.0>>
Precedence: bulk

SKDJ@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi.  I just purchased a glass saw.  I have found out that marking with a
> permanent Sharpee doesn't work, the water washes it off of the glass.  Any
> suggestions?  Thanks.  Sherry
> ----
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paint marker. i think pilot gold works the best, if i'm not mistaken.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 15:56:14 1999
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From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: NG slogans.....
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:21:09 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.22219.0>
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How about:

Curses, Foiled again. 


Dianne
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 16:03:32 1999
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X-Path: fair.net!andor
From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "Suzanne" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Stepping stone  info 
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:48:52 -0500
Message-ID: <199902052249.RAA05489@smtp.america.net>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne,

You are a good doobie.  I know I have gotten some good pointers and the
only, repeat only reason I even gave stepping stones a try was the talk
about it here on this page.  And you letting me bug the heck out of you with
exact measurements.  I think I have it down now.  BTW, I am sifting both my
very fine sand, and the Portland cement, just to catch anything that might
ruin my otherwise perfect pour.  he he he!!  I am waiting for Santa to make
either a real early or a little late delivery of a Taurus II so I can do
some stones with lettering on them.

I had a neighbor ask, are you going to put all these (there are 4 in a
flower bed as you walk up to the front door you see them.) in your back
yard?  I said well no, really I am going to use them as samples to SELL
stones.   I seem to be trying to do everything at once, I have a angel that
needs to be foiled and soldered, and a large window I want to start, stones
that need to be poured, and I want to give making a frame a go.

All the help I have received on this page, not to mention encouragement has
given me continued enthusiasm.

Linda JO

-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 5:35 PM
Subject: Stepping stone info


>Wow...there is **alot** of interest in stepping stones.
>You guys really need to send in bios! ;o)
>There's a plug for ya Patrick!!  I have seen lots of names I have never
>seen before.
>
>I am working on typing up some information offline.  When I can get it
>finished I will post it on bungi instead of individual emails.  Then if
>you want to email me privately with any questions, fine by me.
>
>Sorry for not emailing you each individually right now, but time to pick
>up my daughter from school, and my 2 yr old is building a castle
>currently with my canned goods.  Hope those poor toes survive!
>
>Oh..we are also going to the Dollar store! My son says he needs more
>dollars! :o)  I told him meeeeeee too!
>
>Hopefully I can post it before tonight.
>
>Tulsa Suzanne
>----
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>


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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 16:22:57 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: barbara elmore <barbaraelmore@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: demo Taurus II Saw?
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:49:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.124950.0>
References: <<1999Feb5.5118.0>>
Precedence: bulk

barbara elmore wrote:
> 
> Live in Western North Carolina, and would like
> to demo the Taurus II saw before I buy.  Does anyone
> know of any dealers in my area (even southern VA,
> northern SC, etc) that sell?
> 
> Can't find Gemini Saw Co listing on web, or would
> call them and find out dealers.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> ----
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there address:  http://www.geminisaw.com/


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 16:31:57 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!MD6868
From: MD6868@aol.com
To: suzy@ComCAT.COM, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: NG slogans.....
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:47:12 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.224712.0>
Precedence: bulk

Gets my vote as well! "Leaded Be" would seem to be understated, while at the
same time, should serve to make that small part of the population that still
thinks regularly,wonder just it means ! Bravo!

Richard
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 16:36:41 1999
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From: MD6868@aol.com
To: SKDJ@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: marking glass
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:52:07 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.22527.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

Paint pen, Red, White, or Dark, as the  case may be, works well, and is pretty
easy to remove. I also use this to number pieces, in a multi piece work

Richard
Glassics, Inc
Valencia, Ca.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 16:48:26 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: MD6868@aol.com
Subject: Re: cutting zinc
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:00:25 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.23025.0>
References: <<1999Feb4.164356.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

I still want to know....
Why, why do you need zinc came?
Its lots of trouble, doesn't add any strength if the panel is framed or
in an opening or other architectural setting,  So why?????????????

Steve
In message <1999Feb4.164356.0@?>, MD6868@aol.com writes
>Hi,
>
>I'm reading this after being away for a few days, and knoowing this group,
>you've probably got 20 reply already, but just in case, here goes!
>
>I've recently done several all zinc channel windows, and did cut all of the
>came with a hacksaw (now have elec. came saw on order, however!!) I used a
>wooden miter box, which I clamped (tightly) to the bench, added some wooden
>stock to bring the came up to cutting range, and (I think this is the key to
>avoiding collapse) used two strong 
>spring scissors type clamps , each places on one side of the cut to be made,
>which clamping holds the came tightly against the cutting stop of the miter
>box, thereby eliminating any chance of "wiggle". I found that I got good cuts,
>(some minor filing needed). At best, however, the hand method is very
>frustrating, so I bit the bullet and got the came saw.!!
>
>Richard
>Glassics Artglass
>Valencia, Ca.
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 16:59:43 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Jane Swetman <swetinusa@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: 16" Mold for Lamp
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:19:07 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.23197.0>
References: <<1999Feb4.104434.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Yes,     I have made a lamp mould in the past of papier mache.  Choose
        the shape and draw it out on a piece of hardboard or plywood.
        Cut out the shape, so you have a template to check the accuracy
        of your building process.

Start with a support of some kind which will let air through, e.g. a
strainer or colander.  place it on a board with holes drilled to allow
air circulation.  

Make up your papier mache solution (wallpaper paste and newspaper)

Apply the strips of paper to the mould base and build it up, moving all
around throughout the process.  Leave to dry (2-3 weeks).  Then you can
pin you pieces to the mould (tacky wax is no good on this kind of mould)
No real worries about igniting the mould when soldering, as there is
quite a mass of material there.

Alternatively,  if you know a wood turner, get her/him to turn the shape
in a solid.  Heavy but indestructible (and expensive)

Steve

T
In message <1999Feb4.104434.0@?>, Jane Swetman
<swetinusa@worldnet.att.net> writes
>Has anyone tried making their own mold? Glass Patterns Quarterly has a
>lamp in an old ('94) issue that I want to make, and call for a 16"
>Odyssey shade (I guess a generic one). Odyssey don't make a 16" shade
>without a pattern, so I thought I'd try my hand at making one.
>
>I wondered if anyone has had any success with making their own.
>
>Also, I've also heard that there used to be a company in the Chicago
>that rented the Odyssey molds but they've gone out of business
>(Aurora?). Does anyone know of a place where they can be rented? 
>
>
>
>Jane in S.W. Suburbs/Chicago''
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 17:09:17 1999
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X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro
From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:11:36 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.41136.0>
References: <<1999Feb5.133134.0@[207.126.97.2]>>
Organization: SBWSA
Precedence: bulk



Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 2/4/99 1:27:20 PM, kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU wrote:
>
> >"Honk if you love stained glass"
> >
> >"If you seek beauty, work with stained glass"
> >
> >"Visualize....stained glass"
> >
> >"My windows can beat your windows"
>
> Ever since my first stint working for Christie, when I got attacked by some
> Very Mean Nasty Splintery Red Cathedral, I keep threatening to have some T-
> shirts made up saying (in red letters, of course!):
>

>         GIVE BLOOD
>         become a stained-glass artist
>
> Sparks, type B+
>

Sparks,
     This is my definite hands down favorite LOL.  It's going on my car bumper.

with your permission, of course.

Carol T



> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 17:32:18 1999
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X-Path: fair.net!andor
From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "Family Account" <shad@mail2.nai.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Lettering
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:30:23 -0500
Message-ID: <199902060031.TAA15757@smtp.america.net>
Precedence: bulk

That is a good idea.  I just happen to have Photo Shop and don't even use
it.  The Glass Eye is still waiting for me to learn it, but I will get to it
eventually.
Linda Jo
-----Original Message-----
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 6:17 PM
Subject: Lettering


>Had to come up with lettering for a project....I did up the lettering in
>Photoshop, saved as bitmap, used as background to make a pattern in
>Glass Eye, used Glass Eye to distort it slightly...make taller.  It was
>quick.  Of course, I have to finish the rest of the details, now.
>
>I suppose you could do some interesting distortions in Photoshop before
>saving, too....
>
>Dorothy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----
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>


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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 18:35:53 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!bdudack
From: "Brian Dudack" <bdudack@mediaone.net>
To: <PDRUSS@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG slogans.....
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:37:17 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.133717.0>
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that ones really good too
-----Original Message-----
From: PDRUSS@aol.com <PDRUSS@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: NG slogans.....


>How about:
>
>Curses, Foiled again. 
>
>
>Dianne
>----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 18:42:55 1999
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: head count for Elisabeth in Florida
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:37:44 -0800
Message-ID: <199902060137.RAA31627@oceanus.island.net>
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Hi all

We are investigating the possibility of having a 2 day leaded glass workshop
with Elisabeth in Florida at the end of August as part of "the E-tour".

We have tentative interest from a sponsor, but I would like to get a head
count on the number of bungians that would be interested in attending.
Please email me off line, direct to seaspray@island.net if you would like to
attend a workshop in late August in Florida, location TBA.

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
http://come.to/The_E-Tour

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 18:58:41 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Stepping stone info
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 19:22:44 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.132244.0>
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Changed my mind.   Although I was surprised at how many people are
interested in making stones, if that is everyone, it isnt worth putting
it on the list.  I've learned, this time.  Gonna keep it on my hard
drive.

So, if you are interested and havent already told me you want it, tell
me and I will send to you.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 19:00:29 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Bumper Stickers and The E tour
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:08:06 +0000
Message-ID: <199902060119.BAA08742@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

....Even better, sell them to finance the ravenous appetite of a 
certain starving soul on 4 legs who lusts for Irish mutton....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (... not OF UK)

Patrick wrote:
 How about having the stickers made and selling them to the 
list members to help finance that
Brit Chick's tour? (seriously)

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 19:13:19 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: NG beef grease
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:08:06 +0000
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Hi Shirley (et al),
Yorkshire pudding is one of those horrible things that stick at the 
back of your palate and your tongue is forever worrying in a most 
unseemly manner to shift.
Nah!  
Thanks, but not for me!!
Mind you, the Swedes are renowned for knowing what to cook with a 
melange of left-overs. I do a mean dish of  the Swedish variant of 
"Bubble and Squeak".
Give me a couple of onions, some potatoes and a handful of anchovies 
and I'll serve you up an anchovie dish you've never tasted before!!
What's even better.... Toby doesn't like it, so there is more for 
MEEEEE!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (both suffering from food fantasies!!)



Shirley B wrote:
How come no one mentioned Yorkshire Pudding?  Popovers baked in roast
beef fat. My personal favorite from being raised by an English War Bride
mother.
Gotta say, after reading all these NG post, now I know why my mother is
so fond of frying everything.  Although I still suspect it was cause she
was/is such a busy person, it was done to save time.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 19:37:36 1999
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From: Susan Mankin <smankin@wscc.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Stepping Stones
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 21:22:32 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990205212232.007bf5b0@wscc.edu>
Precedence: bulk

Hi, I am new to the list and fairly new to stained glass. I would like some
info on how to successfully pour stepping stones, and is DiamondCrete the
best thing to use, or is there something that works as well for less money?
Thanks in advance.
Susan

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 20:38:26 1999
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From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: <Glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:35:37 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.113537.0>
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Laura,

Stepping stones are great fun and also can be a bit exasperating.

For the past couple years I have been pouring my own cement  instead of the
ready made stones but now I am ready to start using the ready made stone and
doing mosaic work with grout.  Pam Burns-Tappan does great work with this.
Check out her site she really has some good info.  Shirley also does some
fantastic work and she was a great help to me this past year as I tried to
struggle through some stepping stone problems I was having.

When I first started pouring my greatest problem was keeping the glass from
floating to the top.   Out of habit, I always soak my glass in rubbing
alcohol for a few seconds to get off any oil  then after all the glass is
down and you have applied the contact paper be sure to burnish the contact
paper onto the glass real good.   You need to make sure you have good
adhesion or else the pieces will float to the top.   Also, don't forget to
tap.   I no longer  tap on the side of the mold but on to the table that I
am working at.  I usually have at least three to four molds going at one
time so I just tap away with the old hammer onto the picnic table that I use
when I am pouring stones.   Oh yes,  don't forget to use some type of
lubricant.   There are so many different things you can use.   Lately I have
been using cooking oil spray and it works  great.  Also, try not to get the
topping cement mixture too runny or you will have problems down the line
with crumbling and weak stones.    There's nothing worse than putting all
that work into a stone and having it look beautiful and then it cracks and
breaks in two.  I've seen it happen when the cement is not strong enough and
too much water is used.

Oh yes,  another thing,  don't fret when the water rises to the top after
you have poured your stone.  This is a normal cement process and is
necessary for the strength of the stone so say the cement experts I have
talked with.  The water will recede and the stone will look and be great.

Well these are just a few little hints.   Just don't give it gets easier
each time.

Cheryl Parrott
The Glass Parrott
-----Original Message-----
From: HiimLaura@aol.com <HiimLaura@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 7:29 AM
Subject: First Stepping Stone need advice


>
>Hi all!
>
>I feel I am ready to make my first stepping stone and am not sure which
method
>to use. I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over
the
>glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and
>applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer?
>
>What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be
>greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make
my
>first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I
>begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters!
>
>Thanks!
>Laura P
>
>PS - Here's my bumpersticker input:   "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!"
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 21:33:37 1999
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X-Path: cros.net!soraya
From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Lettering
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:30:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.183030.0>
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Dorothy wrote....
>Had to come up with lettering for a project....I did up the lettering in
>Photoshop, saved as bitmap, used as background to make a pattern in
>Glass Eye, used Glass Eye to distort it slightly...make taller.  It was
>quick.  Of course, I have to finish the rest of the details, now.
>
>I suppose you could do some interesting distortions in Photoshop before
>saving, too....

I may be new to stained glass.....but I am not new to computers and
graphics......so far I have designed all my original patterns on the
computer.   While I don't have the "glass eye"  software (yet?)....I have
gotten good results with using Paint Shop Pro, PhotoShop and Corel 8.    My
stained glass teacher is amazed that I am able to combine the two ..... he
doesn't  have a computer and never doesn't realized the potential.....he
claims to have difficulties getting any of his students to do original
work....he has difficulties getting me to do 'same as everybody else in
class projects' !!!  (I think he likes the challenge...I hate the damn
daffodil!!)

I haven't done any lettering in glass yet, but I am sure that designing on
the 'puter is certainly the way to go for precision.


Take Care,
Soraya

~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Soraya may be reached at...
soraya@cros.net
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Soraya's web site "The Witches' Thicket"
http://www.cros.net/soraya
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
"For Passionate People These Are Desperate Times,
Desperate Measures Call For Passionate Crimes"
--Michael Stanley



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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 22:34:59 1999
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Look out she's baaaaaack
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:58:36 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.175836.0>
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Uh oh... "E" is starting to feel better, I guess the medicines or kicking
in.

Welcome back Elisabeth.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  5 23:34:20 1999
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From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Lettering
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:21:18 -0800
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>>I haven't done any lettering in glass yet, but I am sure that designing on
the 'puter is certainly the way to go for precision.

Take Care,
Soraya<<

You might just go to http://www.americanbevel.com and download a free demo
copy of Designer ll. It is a rather good program made with stained glass in
mind. The demo will not save copies or print.

Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 00:34:42 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Susan Mankin <smankin@wscc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Stepping Stones
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 01:53:36 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.195336.0>
References: <<3.0.3.32.19990205212232.007bf5b0@wscc.edu>>
Precedence: bulk

> 
> Hi, I am new to the list and fairly new to stained glass. I would like some
> info on how to successfully pour stepping stones, and is DiamondCrete the
> best thing to use, or is there something that works as well for less money?
> Thanks in advance.
> Susan


Hi Susan, 

In my opinion, if you only want to do one stone, you might as well go
with diamondcrete, I have never used it, but seems about as easy as it
gets.  But I believe it costs you about $15 per stone just for the
diamondcrete, yowza!!

If you like the way stones look and think you might want to make *some*,
there are *much* cheaper ways, that are just as pretty or more so.

I am typing up the way *I do stones for people who have expressed an
interest, I will be happy to send it to you as well.

I had a very unexpected surprise visitor this evening that just left.
Kinda changed my plans, so I havent finished.  Probably have it to you 
tomorrow sometime.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 01:34:53 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Romajoco@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: marking glass
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 02:19:29 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.201929.0>
References: <<5ac94c15.36bb4976@aol.com>>
Precedence: bulk

> I haven't tried it with my Taurus ring saw yet....but it does not
> come off when I use my grinder.  
> 

I have found that my glass gets much wetter on the grinder than on my
saw.  

T Suz
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 01:57:16 1999
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Lettering
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:28:49 -0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.82849.0>
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Hello!

I must say that I agree with you about dedicated software!

I use Paintshop Pro exclusively and have not felt the need to move to Glass
Eye. I know how to drive the programme I have and am loath to spend the time
learning something else.

I'm quite sure that dedicated software has plenty of neat features but my
old pappy used to say -'If it aint broke don't fix it!' I don't know if I
can be bothered to climb another learning curve! My poor old brain gets
confused enough with all the clutter that's there already!

I expect I will weaken in the end but a kiln is higher up the wish list!

Enjoy your glass work!

Regards

BtB


>
>I may be new to stained glass.....but I am not new to computers and
>graphics......so far I have designed all my original patterns on the
>computer.   While I don't have the "glass eye"  software (yet?)....I have
>gotten good results with using Paint Shop Pro, PhotoShop and Corel 8.
!!)
>



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To: ctombro@InfoAve.Net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 04:59:38 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.95938.0>
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I am with you, Carol!  Absolutely love Spark's slogan:  GIVE BLOOD.....become
a stained glass artist!!!  However, also love Maureen's:  Leaded Be.  Can't
decide between the 2 as they are both GREAT!!!
Lenore
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 02:57:08 1999
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: cutting zinc
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:11:08 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.10118.0>
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Hi Richard,
Hope I can answer your question about using zinc on a project.  I use zinc
border especially when it is NOT going to be framed nor placed in an opening
in a wall or door.  Zinc border is much more economical than a wooden border.
The zinc gives it a nice finished edge (IMO) along with sturdiness it needs
for hanging up for a long period of time.  Also, the zinc will not stretch
over a period of time as the lead will.  Please feel free to comment.
Lenore
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 06:38:40 1999
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From: L Nelson <t6686@netusa1.net>
To: Doug Parrott <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:29:38 -0800
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References: <<1999Feb5.113537.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi, on the mosaic stone what do you do about the sides what keeps it from just
being glass ( or is it) If you put glass on a all ready made stone how do you
prep the stone?? and how do you keep glass in place???
Thanks Laura

Doug Parrott wrote:

> Laura,
>
> Stepping stones are great fun and also can be a bit exasperating.
>
> For the past couple years I have been pouring my own cement  instead of the
> ready made stones but now I am ready to start using the ready made stone and
> doing mosaic work with grout.  Pam Burns-Tappan does great work with this.
> Check out her site she really has some good info.  Shirley also does some
> fantastic work and she was a great help to me this past year as I tried to
> struggle through some stepping stone problems I was having.
>
> When I first started pouring my greatest problem was keeping the glass from
> floating to the top.   Out of habit, I always soak my glass in rubbing
> alcohol for a few seconds to get off any oil  then after all the glass is
> down and you have applied the contact paper be sure to burnish the contact
> paper onto the glass real good.   You need to make sure you have good
> adhesion or else the pieces will float to the top.   Also, don't forget to
> tap.   I no longer  tap on the side of the mold but on to the table that I
> am working at.  I usually have at least three to four molds going at one
> time so I just tap away with the old hammer onto the picnic table that I use
> when I am pouring stones.   Oh yes,  don't forget to use some type of
> lubricant.   There are so many different things you can use.   Lately I have
> been using cooking oil spray and it works  great.  Also, try not to get the
> topping cement mixture too runny or you will have problems down the line
> with crumbling and weak stones.    There's nothing worse than putting all
> that work into a stone and having it look beautiful and then it cracks and
> breaks in two.  I've seen it happen when the cement is not strong enough and
> too much water is used.
>
> Oh yes,  another thing,  don't fret when the water rises to the top after
> you have poured your stone.  This is a normal cement process and is
> necessary for the strength of the stone so say the cement experts I have
> talked with.  The water will recede and the stone will look and be great.
>
> Well these are just a few little hints.   Just don't give it gets easier
> each time.
>
> Cheryl Parrott
> The Glass Parrott
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HiimLaura@aol.com <HiimLaura@aol.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 7:29 AM
> Subject: First Stepping Stone need advice
>
> >
> >Hi all!
> >
> >I feel I am ready to make my first stepping stone and am not sure which
> method
> >to use. I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over
> the
> >glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and
> >applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer?
> >
> >What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be
> >greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make
> my
> >first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I
> >begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters!
> >
> >Thanks!
> >Laura P
> >
> >PS - Here's my bumpersticker input:   "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!"
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 07:37:54 1999
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X-Path: attcanada.net!tuka
From: "tuka" <tuka@attcanada.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:04:02 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb5.2342.0>
Precedence: bulk

For what it's worth, Leaded Be gets my vote.

Shiela




>I am with you, Carol!  Absolutely love Spark's slogan:  GIVE
BLOOD.....become
>a stained glass artist!!!  However, also love Maureen's:  Leaded Be.
Can't
>decide between the 2 as they are both GREAT!!!
>Lenore
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 07:49:28 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:08:22 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.5822.0>
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Message text written by INTERNET:HiimLaura@aol.com
>I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over the
glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and
applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer? >

I prefer to pour the concrete in the mold.  Takes less time than
applying to the outside of a stone.  And you don't have to worry
about sharp pieces of glass sticking out, since the mold-method
guarantees that all surface area of the glass is on the same
plane.

<What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be
greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make=

my
first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I=

begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters!<

I prefer the 14" round mold above all others.  It sells as either a
stand-alone stepping stone (nice sized for a nice price), or as
a table top to the black wrought iron pedistal.  People like the
table size as well.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 08:40:15 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: questions from Shirley G
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:11:02 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.0112.0>
References: <<1999Feb5.52512.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Are you sure it is a brass ring.  If you are using a metal ring
purchased at a craft store(for machrame or dreamcatchers), then they are
not brass and are coated with somekind of plastic.  You can spend hours
melting it off.  Or you can wrap it with copper foil, but I suggest just
doing it at the attachment points.  If you wrap the whole ring, it is
very hard to get smooth.  You can also, just use so much solder that it
forms a blob around the ring at the attachment site and the solder will
stick to itself.
Hope that helped.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 09:43:08 1999
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Daniel" <dro@teleport.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: bumper stickers
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:13:06 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.4136.0>
Precedence: bulk

Daniel, et al

You missed one right in this post (I think)

The Pane ........ ohhhhh the Pane. (with a stained glass window graphic)

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel <dro@teleport.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: bumper stickers


>Oh.......you people are fantastic....
>
>..........if we are that creative with words...it's no wonder...
>
>the contest entries are special...:)
>
>Somebody remind me to vote...sigh...
>
>......the PAIN.....oh the pain....
>
>I Got Linux half installed on my laptop...and I'm revamping my
>linux/cum winnt/ cum win98.......box....I'm up to my ears in email..
>I HAVE to get a project done before Saturday...
>
>I've got to bake bread tomorrow....and the cat needs a rabies shot...
>
>How do you people with kids do it??
>
>A Chinese pug and siamese is too much for me...
>
>
>
>=============================================================
>
>
>I can't say which bumper sticker I like the best...
>
>but THESE are the creme' de la creme'
>
>I think EVERYONE who entered the contest should be given their choice
>of bumper stickers....or...if you want...
>
>send me a blank shirt...and I'll print you up a nice shirt on my
>trusty bubble jet printer with the slogan of your choice....and the 
>iron on jobbies....ahhhhhhhhh...
>
>the mind boggles...umm......bangles...er...bugles...(how do you spell 
>bugle??)...
>
>
>Later...
>
>
>======================================================
>
>
>
>"Honk if you love stained glass"
>
>"Visualize....stained glass"
>
>"My windows can beat your windows"    <<<<<this one is classic....
>
>Glass Artists Do It in the SUNSHINE!
>
>real artists are a pane in the glass!
>
>glass workers score more!
>
>I'd rather be scoring than breaking up.<<<<<<<<<<<<<a very nice inside
>joke.
>
>Old glaziers never die... they just get re-leaded.
>
>(how about old glaziers never die...they just get rehung...:)..ahem...)
>
>
>
>
>
>Daniel in Oregon
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 09:51:11 1999
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X-Path: ameritech.net!garys
From: "GARY SCHROEDER" <garys@ameritech.net>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG beef grease
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:26:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.6267.0>
Precedence: bulk

snip
I do a mean dish of  the Swedish variant of
>"Bubble and Squeak".
>Give me a couple of onions, some potatoes and a handful of anchovies
>and I'll serve you up an anchovie dish you've never tasted before!!
>What's even better.... Toby doesn't like it, so there is more for
>MEEEEE!
>
Smart Dog!!

For myself, I take the yorkshire pudding amd A Thick slice of Prime Rib.
Leave the anchovies on someone elses pizza.

Gary
Back to burned and nleeding fingers.

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 09:56:50 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:55:32 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.05532.0>
References: <<m108nRV-0003ceC@daver.bungi.com>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I pour my own.  I prefer that.  You have more control and it is less
expensive.
I have never used diamondcrete, but have seen the finninshed product and
it looks very nice.
First off.   Concrete is a mix of cement, sand, gravel.  You can buy
pre-mix or ready mix(in my area right now)in 90lb bags for $2.79. 
90lbs. will make 3 fouteen inch dia./2 inch thich stones.  Pre-mix is
notoriously chinzy with the cement.  So it wouldn't hurt to reinforce it
with some cement called Portland Type II & III.   48 oz. of it to a bag
of cement is a pretty good mixture.  If you use too much, then the top
of your stone will act like clay and it is hard to smooth out.
Also don't use chicken wire to reinforce your stone.  First off; a piece
of concrete that small, really does not need it.  But I like to use a
product called fiber mesh.  You buy it at your local ready mix(where the
cement trucks come from)retailer.  It comes in 8-14 oz bags.  It looks
like thick dirty angel hair that you decorate at christmas with.  It is
10 times stronger than chicken wire, and six times cheaper.  One 14 oz
bag will  make 40 14"dia./2" deep stones.  The cost is around $5 a bag
and all you do it simply throw in a handful as you mix your concrete.
I mix my concrete in a small plastic wheel barrow.  I use a kids
shovel(real wooden handle, metal shovel)to mix with.
Try a small stone until you get the feel of working in concrete. 
Concrete is like cooking. The mixture should feel like molded cookie
dough or breaded hamburger that you are going to make meatballs with.
Like making pastry, a little water goes a long way.  And like fudge.
Never on a rainy day.
Drying time depends on the weather.  I live on the oregon coast and I
bring mine in the house to dry.  If you have them in 72degrees, 14" dia.
will dry in 12 hours.  Smaller ones, say, 8" dia. will dry in 9 hours.
Or you can leave them for 3 days. But once you have taken them out, then
put them on a couple of 2X4's so the air can get to all sides.
Do not confuse dry with cure.  Concrete does dry by evaporation but it
is cured because of a chemical reaction.  And that takes 30 days.  So
you really should not plant them for at least 30 days.
When you do plant them.  This is very important.  Plant them on 1 1/2
inches of clean sand.  You can't run down to the beach and get some
sand.  Concrete has been known to chemically react with the salt in the
sand.  Don't ask me what kind of reaction, I have only read that it can
happen.  You don't want any debris in your sand, because it can act like
a fulcrum and break the stone over time.  Best results would be to plant
the stone flush with the ground.  If you plant it correctly, you can
drive on them.  I would love to see someone do a driveway with these.
And as for molds.  Anything plastic will work.  So go down to your local
2nd time around and look for tupperware.  Loaf pans make great bricks. 
Cake pans are great 8" rounds.  I use plastic potted plant drip catcher.
The 16" dia. ones make perfect 14" dia. stones.  The plastic is a little
soft, so put it on a board that is large enough to support the concrete
filled mold and still light enough for you to carry.  Then carry the
board not the filled mold. You can also make your own mold from wood. 
And if you want something unique, you can use plastic molds sold in kids
beach toy kits, or cake or jello molds.
Be sure you do this on a level surface.  Someplace that is easy to clean
up.  Wear clothes you never plan to wear again.  And protect your hands.
And be prepared to get wet.  Clean up will require a hose with a power
nozzle. And I have never figured out how not to spray myself during this
process!  Concrete can cause burns. So if you get it on your skin wash
it off immediatley.  Your hands will tolerate it better than other parts
of your body.  I use cheap garden gloves, the ones that have the little
plastic bumps on the palm side.  And I wear latex gloves inside those. 
Concrete does not stick to plastic, if you clean up right away, your
mold will never look like you have used it.  And those bumpy gloves help
get the concrete off.
There is also a recipe called the 1-2-3 method.  I believe it means one
part cement to 2 parts sand to 3 parts water.  But I would not swear to
it.  If you use sandblasting sand, you can get a very nice looking
stone.  But to me the other way is cheaper and the stone is under the
ground so what difference does it make?
Good Luck and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
Shirley B
> 
> > I feel I am ready to make my first stepping stone and am not sure which method
> > to use. I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over the
> > glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and
> > applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer?
> >
> > What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be
> > greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make my
> > first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I
> > begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters!
> >
> 
> I have made serval stepping stones using diamondcrete and a mold
> that had glass laid in it.  I have had quite good results.
> 
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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-- 
x�>"3
�
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re: marking glass
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:12:57 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.171257.0>
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In a message dated 2/5/99 8:18:04 PM, MD6868@aol.com wrote:

>Paint pen, Red, White, or Dark, as the  case may be, works well, and is
pretty
>easy to remove.

I kinda like yellow paint pen.

I'd be a little concerned about covering the lines with chapstick though, that
stuff is greasy and I wouldn't want my fingers to slip and maybe get into the
saw.......


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 10:54:17 1999
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Bumper Stickers and The E tour
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:19:49 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.51949.0>
Precedence: bulk

How about  "The Brit Chick Rules"....... a feeble attempt at pacification.
LOL

-----Original Message-----
From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Bumper Stickers and The E tour


>....Even better, sell them to finance the ravenous appetite of a
>certain starving soul on 4 legs who lusts for Irish mutton....
>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (... not OF UK)
>
>Patrick wrote:
> How about having the stickers made and selling them to the
>list members to help finance that
>Brit Chick's tour? (seriously)
>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>

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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Daniel German's  nGlass
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 09:59:50 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.15950.0>
References: <<1999Feb5.72723.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

This is a great site.  Thank you for telling us about it.
Shirley B
> 
> http://aries27.uwaterloo.ca/nglass/index.html
> 
> Have fun!
> 
> Diane Manchester
> Tiffany Styled Originals
> Carthage, NC
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 11:45:13 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Bumper stickers so far
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:58:30 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.25830.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

You bet your sweet glass...
A Glass of It's Own
Get Glassed!
Glassified
"I'd rather be scoring"
Torched.
 "snaps under pressure"
> "on the cutting edge"
> "grinds with the best of 'em"
> "%$&#, foiled again!"
"Leaded be" 
... and leaded be Light.
And God saw it was good.
Curses, Foiled again. 
"Glass Artists Say No to Crack!"

Honk if you love stained glass"
"If you seek beauty, work with stained glass"
"Visualize....stained glass"
My windows can beat your windows"
           /\                            _________________          
                  /    \                         
\                            /
                /        \                         \   Stained Glass  /
              / Beauty \                        \         on          /
            /      on      \                        \     Board      /
          /      Board    \                         \                /
         /____________\                         \_______/           
"View the world through stained glass"
"glassers know the score." 
 "glassers know how to score."

"Get your Glass in Gear!"

"Lead, Foil, or get out of the way!"

"My other car is a Kiln"

"Don't laugh, I spend my $$$ on Glass."

"Aw flux, foiled again!"

"To bead, or not to bead"  (Shakespeare)

"Keep your glass to the grindstone"

"Oh, Frit...blasted again!"

"Use Came, or Foil, Then Solder"  (Caesar said it best! I came, I saw..
well
you know)

"Working my Glass Off!"  (has a double meaning)

"You have got to be fidding?"  (Now I am killing myself!!!  LOL)

"Grozing in the Glass"  song - (Grazing in the grass)

"Got Glass?"  (and we could all have little glass moustaches)

"Super cooled liquid manipulator"  (okay, a little on the egghead side)

"Heart of Glass"  (Blondie's back you know?)

 GIVE BLOOD
        become a stained-glass artist
Stained Glass Artists - a cut above the rest.
The Pane ........ ohhhhh the Pane.
"Life is a multicolored Pane."

"Life is a Pane in the Glass"

"I look at life thru multicolored glasses"

"If the pieces fit.....solder them!"
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 12:02:29 1999
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: I have a bee in my bonnet.
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:33:25 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.23325.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I have been toying with this  idea.  My kids when they were little,
loved the hidden picture books.  I saw a panel(done by Robert Oddy, I am
pretty sure)that the outline of an animal was in the solder lines, but
not in the design.  Kind of like, do you see the vase or two profiles.
Anyway.  Wissmach puts out a lot of glass that looks pretty dull til you
get a bright light shinning through it.  And my idea is:  To make a
large suncatcher(12" dia.)that looks like one thing and then when a
bright light shines through it and only then, you can see other things
in the panel.  My first thought is a jungle scene, that only show
vegitation until a bright light hits it and then you see the jaguar
sleeping on the tree branch and the monkey swinging on the vine etc.
My question is.  Has anyone already done this(and I can't believe no one
ever has) and is there a site on the web to see it?
Thanks in advance.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 12:10:13 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4
From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: glassinmd@hotmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Bevel Max
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:08:14 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.19814.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Jeanne,
To answer your question , in my opinion the bevel max might be OK if you were
going to do a lot of cut-offs (a stock bevel with the end cut off to make it
fit a specific window size). I have found that they take a lot of practice to
master and from what I understand the replacement wheels for the polishing
stage of the operation don't last long. But if you were going to do a lot of
cut-offs it might be worth it, and then find a wheel set up for the polishing
stage seperate from the Max. For ten bevels it is not hardly worth the
trouble, find someone to do them for you it would be much cheaper in the end.
Beveling isn't for everyone it takes a lot of patience and is very time
consuming. Sorry that I didn't answer you sooner but my local server was down
for a few days VERY Frustrating!!!!!! Beveler4(Stan)  
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 13:00:43 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: cutting zinc
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:52:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.95251.0>
Precedence: bulk

Lenore-

Zinc is more rigid than lead, but not necessarily stronger... we avoid it=

because it's known to fail much more quickly at the solder joints than le=
ad
over an extended period of time.  On the rare occasions that we hang a
piece without frame, we use a wider lead and just make sure that all the
lead or solder points that abutt the border are soldered onto the border.=
..
that keeps the border lead from pulling away from the window.  If you kno=
w
you're going to frame this way to begin with, design the window so that y=
ou
have a couple of abutting joints that you can also affix hanging rings to=

in the appropriate locations.  And, of course, cement the window for
strength.  You should be able to do a 4 s.f. window this way without
sagging problems easily.  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 13:02:29 1999
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Marking glass
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:29:33 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.72933.0>
Precedence: bulk

How about the old china markers? Those pencil things that we all loved to
enjoy unwrapping when we were kids. They came in all colors and I am sure an
office supply place would still carry them.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 13:18:00 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Pat Kelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bumper Stickers and The E tour
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 13:41:17 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.74117.0>
References: <<1999Feb6.51949.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> How about  "The Brit Chick Rules"....... a feeble attempt at pacification.
> LOL
> 
How about T shirts with  "The Brit Chick Rules" and a pick of a cujoish
Toby chasing a mad hatter Irishman in a pink glass tutu??????

Gosh, maybe I should quit trying to sell my glass, and just start making
some of the things we've been talking about, and sell to you guys! ;o)
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 13:26:25 1999
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Saturday Bios
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:36:47 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.73647.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sorry gang no one has sent me any bios to post. Just promises, promises,
promises (and not just from the male gender either).

That "Brit Viking Chick and Company"  are preparing to set sail for Texas
and gnaw on my gnomon again if ya'll (that's Texan)  don't send some bios
quick.

BTW I forgot who requested all the past bios. Did I respond? Bacon Grease
sandwiches have clogged my brain all week. Send request again and get out
your bi-focals.





Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 13:40:39 1999
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Shirley Balloch" <balloch@netbridge.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Bumper stickers so far
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:07:43 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.8743.0>
Precedence: bulk

Shirley,

I am insulted you forgot mine ....

I'd rather be scoring  ..... than snoring!

and it is soooooo unforgettable to. LOL
-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 1:59 PM
Subject: Bumper stickers so far


>You bet your sweet glass...
>A Glass of It's Own
>Get Glassed!
>Glassified
>"I'd rather be scoring"
>Torched.
> "snaps under pressure"
>> "on the cutting edge"
>> "grinds with the best of 'em"
>> "%$&#, foiled again!"
>"Leaded be" 
>... and leaded be Light.
>And God saw it was good.
>Curses, Foiled again. 
>"Glass Artists Say No to Crack!"
>
>Honk if you love stained glass"
>"If you seek beauty, work with stained glass"
>"Visualize....stained glass"
>My windows can beat your windows"
>           /\                            _________________          
>                  /    \                         
>\                            /
>                /        \                         \   Stained Glass  /
>              / Beauty \                        \         on          /
>            /      on      \                        \     Board      /
>          /      Board    \                         \                /
>         /____________\                         \_______/           
>"View the world through stained glass"
>"glassers know the score." 
> "glassers know how to score."
>
>"Get your Glass in Gear!"
>
>"Lead, Foil, or get out of the way!"
>
>"My other car is a Kiln"
>
>"Don't laugh, I spend my $$$ on Glass."
>
>"Aw flux, foiled again!"
>
>"To bead, or not to bead"  (Shakespeare)
>
>"Keep your glass to the grindstone"
>
>"Oh, Frit...blasted again!"
>
>"Use Came, or Foil, Then Solder"  (Caesar said it best! I came, I saw..
>well
>you know)
>
>"Working my Glass Off!"  (has a double meaning)
>
>"You have got to be fidding?"  (Now I am killing myself!!!  LOL)
>
>"Grozing in the Glass"  song - (Grazing in the grass)
>
>"Got Glass?"  (and we could all have little glass moustaches)
>
>"Super cooled liquid manipulator"  (okay, a little on the egghead side)
>
>"Heart of Glass"  (Blondie's back you know?)
>
> GIVE BLOOD
>        become a stained-glass artist
>Stained Glass Artists - a cut above the rest.
>The Pane ........ ohhhhh the Pane.
>"Life is a multicolored Pane."
>
>"Life is a Pane in the Glass"
>
>"I look at life thru multicolored glasses"
>
>"If the pieces fit.....solder them!"
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 14:31:47 1999
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: Pat Kelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: Bumper stickers so far
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 12:41:19 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.44119.0>
References: <<023c01be520c$5c440780$03ee18d0@708714093>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

So sorry, you must have sneaked it in on another post.
Hey I meant to tell you.  Was channel surfing the other night and
stopped short when I saw these two guys in tutu and tiarra's.  It was a
show called the Bobcats big ass show.  I kid you not.  They had to dance
and the audience decided the winner.
Was one of them you, Patrick?
Shirley B

Pat Kelly wrote:
> 
> Shirley,
> 
> I am insulted you forgot mine ....
> 
> I'd rather be scoring  ..... than snoring!
> 
> and it is soooooo unforgettable to. LOL

> >

-- 
x�>"3
�
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 16:32:48 1999
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Bumper stickers so far
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:46:17 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.84617.0>
Precedence: bulk

No it wasn't me on that tv show. I only perform live for the Russian Ball=
et
at the Metropolitan in New York, assorted personal friends and animals, a=
nd
my neighbors when they don't invite me to their Bar-B-Ques. I figure it
spoils the appetite of their guests so much the next time they will invit=
e
me just to be safe. LOL

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: Pat Kelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
Cc: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Bumper stickers so far


>So sorry, you must have sneaked it in on another post.
>Hey I meant to tell you.  Was channel surfing the other night and
>stopped short when I saw these two guys in tutu and tiarra's.  It was a
>show called the Bobcats big ass show.  I kid you not.  They had to dance
>and the audience decided the winner.
>Was one of them you, Patrick?
>Shirley B
>
>Pat Kelly wrote:
>>
>> Shirley,
>>
>> I am insulted you forgot mine ....
>>
>> I'd rather be scoring  ..... than snoring!
>>
>> and it is soooooo unforgettable to. LOL
>
>> >
>
>--
>x=9F>"3=16=01=06=90=08
>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 16:50:01 1999
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com, Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bumper stickers so far Revised
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 12:59:56 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.45956.0>
References: <<1999Feb6.25830.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

> 
> You bet your sweet glass...
> A Glass of It's Own
> Get Glassed!
> Glassified
> "I'd rather be scoring"
> Torched.
>  "snaps under pressure"
> > "on the cutting edge"
> > "grinds with the best of 'em"
> > "%$&#, foiled again!"
> "Leaded be"
> ... and leaded be Light.
> And God saw it was good.
> Curses, Foiled again.
> "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!"
> 
> Honk if you love stained glass"
> "If you seek beauty, work with stained glass"
> "Visualize....stained glass"
> My windows can beat your windows"
>            /\                            _________________
>                   /    \
> \                            /
>                 /        \                         \   Stained Glass  /
>               / Beauty \                        \         on          /
>             /      on      \                        \     Board      /
>           /      Board    \                         \                /
>          /____________\                         \_______/
> "View the world through stained glass"
> "glassers know the score."
>  "glassers know how to score."
> 
> "Get your Glass in Gear!"
> 
> "Lead, Foil, or get out of the way!"
> 
> "My other car is a Kiln"
> 
> "Don't laugh, I spend my $$$ on Glass."
> 
> "Aw flux, foiled again!"
> 
> "To bead, or not to bead"  (Shakespeare)
> 
> "Keep your glass to the grindstone"
> 
> "Oh, Frit...blasted again!"
> 
> "Use Came, or Foil, Then Solder"  (Caesar said it best! I came, I saw..
> well
> you know)
> 
> "Working my Glass Off!"  (has a double meaning)
> 
> "You have got to be fidding?"  (Now I am killing myself!!!  LOL)
> 
> "Grozing in the Glass"  song - (Grazing in the grass)
> 
> "Got Glass?"  (and we could all have little glass moustaches)
> 
> "Super cooled liquid manipulator"  (okay, a little on the egghead side)
> 
> "Heart of Glass"  (Blondie's back you know?)
> 
>  GIVE BLOOD
>         become a stained-glass artist
> Stained Glass Artists - a cut above the rest.
> The Pane ........ ohhhhh the Pane.
> "Life is a multicolored Pane."
> 
> "Life is a Pane in the Glass"
> 
> "I look at life thru multicolored glasses"
> 
> "If the pieces fit.....solder them!"
I'd rather be scoring  ..... than snoring!
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 16:53:46 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!MD6868
From: MD6868@aol.com
To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: cutting zinc
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:56:07 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.20567.0>
Precedence: bulk


Steve,

In the example I gave, I did two Frank Lloyd Wright "inspired" windows, which
were approx 2' x 3', and for the sake of authenticity, all caming was zinc, as
was the original design which "inspired" these two. In another window for a
customer, which was of the same type, but a different design, lead came was
used in the interior caming process, but the exterior, or frame, was zinc, as
this panel was applied using clips, from the inside, over a double glazed
aluminum double hung window, and wood framing wasn't appropriate. The zinc was
used to give the piece exterior rigidity.I have read that Wright and similar
designers specified Zinc, or Brass sometimes copper, for just that reason,
lighter weight than lead, more rigidity.

Richard
Glassics Artglass
Valencia, Ca
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 16:59:18 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Doug Parrott <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:59:56 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.205956.0>
References: <<1999Feb5.113537.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

I too am thinking of starting to make paving stones with mosaics.

I've seen a certain amount of talk about the strength of the cement.
But I have never seen anything about reinforcements.  In the building
industry they use a metal grid over which the cement is poured.  Does
anyone reinforce their stones with metal, wire, or anything else?

Steve
 Parrott <bird_cage@email.msn.com> writes
>Laura,
>
>Stepping stones are great fun and also can be a bit exasperating.
>
>For the past couple years I have been pouring my own cement  instead of the
>ready made stones but now I am ready to start using the ready made stone and
>doing mosaic work with grout.  Pam Burns-Tappan does great work with this.
>Check out her site she really has some good info.  Shirley also does some
>fantastic work and she was a great help to me this past year as I tried to
>struggle through some stepping stone problems I was having.
>
>When I first started pouring my greatest problem was keeping the glass from
>floating to the top.   Out of habit, I always soak my glass in rubbing
>alcohol for a few seconds to get off any oil  then after all the glass is
>down and you have applied the contact paper be sure to burnish the contact
>paper onto the glass real good.   You need to make sure you have good
>adhesion or else the pieces will float to the top.   Also, don't forget to
>tap.   I no longer  tap on the side of the mold but on to the table that I
>am working at.  I usually have at least three to four molds going at one
>time so I just tap away with the old hammer onto the picnic table that I use
>when I am pouring stones.   Oh yes,  don't forget to use some type of
>lubricant.   There are so many different things you can use.   Lately I have
>been using cooking oil spray and it works  great.  Also, try not to get the
>topping cement mixture too runny or you will have problems down the line
>with crumbling and weak stones.    There's nothing worse than putting all
>that work into a stone and having it look beautiful and then it cracks and
>breaks in two.  I've seen it happen when the cement is not strong enough and
>too much water is used.
>
>Oh yes,  another thing,  don't fret when the water rises to the top after
>you have poured your stone.  This is a normal cement process and is
>necessary for the strength of the stone so say the cement experts I have
>talked with.  The water will recede and the stone will look and be great.
>
>Well these are just a few little hints.   Just don't give it gets easier
>each time.
>
>Cheryl Parrott
>The Glass Parrott
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HiimLaura@aol.com <HiimLaura@aol.com>
>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 7:29 AM
>Subject: First Stepping Stone need advice
>
>
>>
>>Hi all!
>>
>>I feel I am ready to make my first stepping stone and am not sure which
>method
>>to use. I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over
>the
>>glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and
>>applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer?
>>
>>What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be
>>greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make
>my
>>first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I
>>begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters!
>>
>>Thanks!
>>Laura P
>>
>>PS - Here's my bumpersticker input:   "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!"
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 17:05:50 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Subject: Re: NG beef grease
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:37:16 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.203716.0>
References: <<199902060119.BAA08736@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

But note everybody, the anchovies have to be fresh, not those salted,
oiled, and generally awful stuff usually found in non coastal states.

In message <199902060119.BAA08736@saturn.nildram.co.uk>, Toby
<toby@northlights.co.uk> writes
>Hi Shirley (et al),
>Yorkshire pudding is one of those horrible things that stick at the 
>back of your palate and your tongue is forever worrying in a most 
>unseemly manner to shift.
>Nah!  
>Thanks, but not for me!!
>Mind you, the Swedes are renowned for knowing what to cook with a 
>melange of left-overs. I do a mean dish of  the Swedish variant of 
>"Bubble and Squeak".
>Give me a couple of onions, some potatoes and a handful of anchovies 
>and I'll serve you up an anchovie dish you've never tasted before!!
>What's even better.... Toby doesn't like it, so there is more for 
>MEEEEE!
>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (both suffering from food fantasies!!)
>
>
>
>Shirley B wrote:
>How come no one mentioned Yorkshire Pudding?  Popovers baked in roast
>beef fat. My personal favorite from being raised by an English War Bride
>mother.
>Gotta say, after reading all these NG post, now I know why my mother is
>so fond of frying everything.  Although I still suspect it was cause she
>was/is such a busy person, it was done to save time.
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 17:10:20 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: I have a bee in my bonnet.
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 16:54:20 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.115420.0>
References: <<1999Feb6.23325.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Shirley Balloch wrote:
> 
> I have been toying with this  idea.  My kids when they were little,
> loved the hidden picture books.  I saw a panel(done by Robert Oddy, I am
> pretty sure)that the outline of an animal was in the solder lines, but
> not in the design.  Kind of like, do you see the vase or two profiles.
> Anyway.  Wissmach puts out a lot of glass that looks pretty dull til you
> get a bright light shinning through it.  And my idea is:  To make a
> large suncatcher(12" dia.)that looks like one thing and then when a
> bright light shines through it and only then, you can see other things
> in the panel.  My first thought is a jungle scene, that only show
> vegitation until a bright light hits it and then you see the jaguar
> sleeping on the tree branch and the monkey swinging on the vine etc.
> My question is.  Has anyone already done this(and I can't believe no one
> ever has) and is there a site on the web to see it?
> Thanks in advance.
> Shirley B
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


 i think in one of the patterns quartely, they overlayed a darker glass
on the back of a lighter glass, for a giraffe. it was a pretty good
effect. i would probably try to find the glass before making the design.
i personally have some kind of glass that have a few outlines of fish in
it. someday i'll do something with it.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 17:18:39 1999
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X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon
From: "Jak N Wolfy" <rjlcon@ticnet.com>
To: <Yegnim@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: cutting zinc
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:38:23 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.103823.0>
Precedence: bulk

Okay guys, I need some opinions here are you saying if you were making
sidelights that measure 8 inches by 83 inches would you use a zinc frame
around it or not?
       Jackie
-----Original Message-----
From: Yegnim@aol.com <Yegnim@aol.com>
To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
<s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 5:04 AM
Subject: Re: cutting zinc


>Hi Richard,
>Hope I can answer your question about using zinc on a project.  I use zinc
>border especially when it is NOT going to be framed nor placed in an
opening
>in a wall or door.  Zinc border is much more economical than a wooden
border.
>The zinc gives it a nice finished edge (IMO) along with sturdiness it needs
>for hanging up for a long period of time.  Also, the zinc will not stretch
>over a period of time as the lead will.  Please feel free to comment.
>Lenore
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 17:19:59 1999
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From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: sorry
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:16:49 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.231649.0>
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make that :

"I'd rather be leading"


Dianne
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 17:52:27 1999
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: balloch@netbridge.net
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: I have a bee in my bonnet.
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:13:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.141339.0>
Precedence: bulk

Shirley,

While I never got around to it and probably never will, for years I saved
up pieces (scraps) of glass that looked pure white on one side and
colored on the other.  The plan was to make a lamp that was all white
until you turned it on.

Gary Dodge

On Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:33:25 -0800 Shirley Balloch
<balloch@netbridge.net> writes:
>I have been toying with this  idea.  My kids when they were little,
>loved the hidden picture books.  I saw a panel(done by Robert Oddy, I 
>am
>pretty sure)that the outline of an animal was in the solder lines, 
>but
>not in the design.  Kind of like, do you see the vase or two 
>profiles.
>Anyway.  Wissmach puts out a lot of glass that looks pretty dull til 
>you
>get a bright light shinning through it.  And my idea is:  To make a
>large suncatcher(12" dia.)that looks like one thing and then when a
>bright light shines through it and only then, you can see other 
>things
>in the panel.  My first thought is a jungle scene, that only show
>vegitation until a bright light hits it and then you see the jaguar
>sleeping on the tree branch and the monkey swinging on the vine etc.
>My question is.  Has anyone already done this(and I can't believe no 
>one
>ever has) and is there a site on the web to see it?
>Thanks in advance.
>Shirley B
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com

___________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 18:05:03 1999
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From: "Ron Scopelleti" <d326502@er.uqam.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: help me please
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:17:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.13174.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE51FC.E605C9A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Iam  looking for a design and form of the  Green  Lutus Leaf ,the shade =
is 25inches in diameter,tapers down to an small 2inch aperture,and, with =
a height of 61/2,It resemblances a oriental hat, so sometimes referred =
to as The Mandarin Shade.  altogether there are more than 1300 pieces of =
leaded glass in this shade .In the tiffany album,the lotus shade bears =
the number 1524.                       =20
           =20
                                     thank you, if you can not help =
please let me know anyway.

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE51FC.E605C9A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Iam&nbsp; looking for a design and =
form of=20
the&nbsp; Green&nbsp; Lutus Leaf ,the shade is 25inches in =
diameter,tapers down=20
to an small 2inch aperture,and, with a height of 61/2,It resemblances a =
oriental=20
hat, so sometimes referred to as The Mandarin Shade.&nbsp; altogether =
there are=20
more than 1300 pieces of leaded glass in this shade .In the tiffany =
album,the=20
lotus shade bears the number=20
1524.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;=20
thank you, if you can not help please let me know=20
anyway.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE51FC.E605C9A0--

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 18:53:50 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 19:24:30 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.132430.0>
References: <<1999Feb6.205956.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Steve the Concrete guy who is my teacher, says metal reinforcement isnt
necessary.  He uses something called stealth fiber, which I buy from
him.  It is a short white very fine fiber.  I dont know what it is made
from.  He says that is all the reinforment needed. He says he drives a
fork lift (without it cracking) over the same *recipe* that I use, so it
should be strong enough to step on.  That was good enough for me.  It is 
the same as he uses in the decorative concrete business.  He has been at
it a long time.  I take his word as gospel when it comes to concrete.

Also,
I read an article not too long ago written by an engineer, ( I wish I
could remember where I read it) who states that the way people are
reinforcing their stones is not effective for strengthening....he went
on to explain why in mathematical and other technical ways that was too
far over my head....

I have ended up too busy doing other things than I had planned, that I
havent had the time to finish writting up the information about the way
I do stones, and look for that article.  

I promise I will finish typing that up and also look for that article as
soon as I can.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 19:03:06 1999
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X-Path: hotmail.com!agacic
From: "Alex Gacic" <agacic@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: To buy or not to buy that is the question
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 17:19:19 PST
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.11919.0>
Precedence: bulk


Hi everyone,

I've run across an interesting opportunity. A small glass and door 
company, actually a man and wife, are retiring and hitting the road in 
their RV.  They live in Freeport, Florida which is about 60 miles east 
of Pensacola in the Florida panhandle.

He wants to sell all his glass, supplies and equipment for a take all 
price of $10K.

It appears he hasnt done much glass work in the past year or two. But it 
really seems he has quite alot of stuff.  Most of the glass is 
Armstrong, some spectrum, and some art glass.  He probably has about 400 
to 500 full size sheets with maybe about 100 half size and smaller 
sheets (all colors).  He has about 20 to 30 cases of various bevels and 
maybe about 20 or 30 bevel pattern sets (still shrink wrapped).  He's 
got several boxes of copper foil, several gallons of glass polish, and 
black patina.  He has several 300 watt irons, some sort of beveler 
contraption(its big anyway), a small band saw, an old grinder, 3 big and 
solid 4X8 tables. Maybe about 12 sidelite frames, some oak some 
mahogany.  A whole bunch of window framing/trim,  Some of that flexbile 
brick molding stuff.  He also has something that drops molten glass in 
and then it spins.

He does not want to break it up and really wants it out of there.  He 
had one guy (not in the business) wanting to buy it, but didnt leave a 
deposit.

I dont have the money or the room for all of it, It sure would be nice 
to have a glass cooperative,  Maybe rent a truck to  drop off everyone's 
goodies.

With really not being the business, it seems like it could be a good 
deal, What do you guys think?

Alex Gacic
The ponderer

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 19:08:22 1999
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X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire
From: "Doug Scale" <proffire@ebtech.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bumper Stickers slogans etc.
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:54:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.155412.0>
Precedence: bulk

This one may not work on bumpers but in your shops it gets the message
across.

    If Stained Glass was cheap and easy, everybody would be doing it!!

Doug Scale

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 20:52:21 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: I have a bee in my bonnet.
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 22:18:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.171828.0>
References: <<1999Feb6.141339.0>>
Precedence: bulk

dodgestudio@juno.com wrote:
> 
> Shirley,
> 
> While I never got around to it and probably never will, for years I saved
> up pieces (scraps) of glass that looked pure white on one side and
> colored on the other.  The plan was to make a lamp that was all white
> until you turned it on.
> 
> Gary Dodge
> 
> On Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:33:25 -0800 Shirley Balloch
> <balloch@netbridge.net> writes:
> >I have been toying with this  idea.  My kids when they were little,
> >loved the hidden picture books.  I saw a panel(done by Robert Oddy, I
> >am
> >pretty sure)that the outline of an animal was in the solder lines,
> >but
> >not in the design.  Kind of like, do you see the vase or two
> >profiles.
> >Anyway.  Wissmach puts out a lot of glass that looks pretty dull til
> >you
> >get a bright light shinning through it.  And my idea is:  To make a
> >large suncatcher(12" dia.)that looks like one thing and then when a
> >bright light shines through it and only then, you can see other
> >things
> >in the panel.  My first thought is a jungle scene, that only show
> >vegitation until a bright light hits it and then you see the jaguar
> >sleeping on the tree branch and the monkey swinging on the vine etc.
> >My question is.  Has anyone already done this(and I can't believe no
> >one
> >ever has) and is there a site on the web to see it?
> >Thanks in advance.
> >Shirley B
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> 
> Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs
> 
> http://www.dodgestudio.com
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________

a simaler idea that i had a while ago was to make a white vase, with
blue decorations on the inside. and that would be the lamp. i think i
saw that on some ancient vase of shell or something like that.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 21:03:21 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Alex Gacic <agacic@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: To buy or not to buy that is the question
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 22:24:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.172427.0>
References: <<1999Feb7.11919.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Alex Gacic wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've run across an interesting opportunity. A small glass and door
> company, actually a man and wife, are retiring and hitting the road in
> their RV.  They live in Freeport, Florida which is about 60 miles east
> of Pensacola in the Florida panhandle.
> 
> He wants to sell all his glass, supplies and equipment for a take all
> price of $10K.
> 
> It appears he hasnt done much glass work in the past year or two. But it
> really seems he has quite alot of stuff.  Most of the glass is
> Armstrong, some spectrum, and some art glass.  He probably has about 400
> to 500 full size sheets with maybe about 100 half size and smaller
> sheets (all colors).  He has about 20 to 30 cases of various bevels and
> maybe about 20 or 30 bevel pattern sets (still shrink wrapped).  He's
> got several boxes of copper foil, several gallons of glass polish, and
> black patina.  He has several 300 watt irons, some sort of beveler
> contraption(its big anyway), a small band saw, an old grinder, 3 big and
> solid 4X8 tables. Maybe about 12 sidelite frames, some oak some
> mahogany.  A whole bunch of window framing/trim,  Some of that flexbile
> brick molding stuff.  He also has something that drops molten glass in
> and then it spins.
> 
> He does not want to break it up and really wants it out of there.  He
> had one guy (not in the business) wanting to buy it, but didnt leave a
> deposit.
> 
> I dont have the money or the room for all of it, It sure would be nice
> to have a glass cooperative,  Maybe rent a truck to  drop off everyone's
> goodies.
> 
> With really not being the business, it seems like it could be a good
> deal, What do you guys think?
> 
> Alex Gacic
> The ponderer
> 
> ______________________________________________________
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it's hard to say, certainly mouth watering. but a little pricey. i
figure the beveler, the hot equipment is at least and tools probably
come around to $7000 or so. the bevel sets how much are they about, say
about 50 bucks a piece. and each sheet of glass at a simaler price. 

ideally it sounds pretty good, but you would have to move it. and store
it. if i had the money and space, i would probably go for it. but i
don't, wah... 

if anything you could re-sell some of the stuff, like the doors. and
maybe get some of the money back. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 21:10:55 1999
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From: "Molly Keys" <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: art fair jurying
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:46:08 -0600
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE521A.1AF5DB60
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I need a little help from everyone.  I am the stained glass artist rep =
for the Texas State Arts and Crafts Council. Besides myself there 11 =
other jurors from other categories who will judge the slides for the =
fair.  The jurying process for stained glass really needs to be updated. =
 I thought coming to this group for suggestions might give me more =
information to input into the process.  The standard is already set as =
far as slides go.  The specifics are  spelled out very plain and =
applicants are tossed if they don't adhere to this first process. =20

So put your thinking caps on and think of how you would like shows to be =
juried.  What should the jurors be looking for?

I look forward to your responses.
Molly Keys

By the way the meeting I have to present this to is February 17.

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE521A.1AF5DB60
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I need a little help from =
everyone.&nbsp; I am=20
the stained glass artist rep for the Texas State Arts and Crafts =
Council.=20
Besides myself there 11 other jurors from other categories who will =
judge the=20
slides for the fair.&nbsp; The jurying process for stained glass really =
needs to=20
be updated.&nbsp; I thought coming to this group for suggestions might =
give me=20
more information to input into the process.&nbsp; The standard is =
already set as=20
far as slides go.&nbsp; The specifics are&nbsp; spelled out very plain =
and=20
applicants are tossed if they don't adhere to this first process.&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>So put your thinking caps on and =
think of how=20
you would like shows to be juried.&nbsp; What should the jurors be =
looking=20
for?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I look forward to your =
responses.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Molly Keys</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>By the way the meeting I have to =
present this to=20
is February 17.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 21:28:13 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Steven Ford <sford@nettally.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Stepping Stones
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 22:08:16 -0600
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Steven

Got some bad news for you.  If you dont already know you have the
Happy99.exe attached to your emails.

In fact, nothing showed in your email to me except the attached happy99
.exe file.  

I dont have the links to the fix it info but others at bungi have it.
and I know it is in the archives not to far back.

Someone want to post the links again to the directions for cleaning up
the happy99 thing?

Thanks
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 22:55:30 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help me please
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:21:37 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.132137.0>
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>>Iam  looking for a design and form of the  Green  Lutus Leaf ,the shade =
is 25inches in diameter,tapers down to an small 2inch aperture,and, with =
a height of 61/2,It resemblances a oriental hat, so sometimes referred =
to as The Mandarin Shade.  altogether there are more than 1300 pieces of =
leaded glass in this shade .In the tiffany album,the lotus shade bears =
the number 1524.                       =20
           =20
                                     thank you, if you can not help =
please let me know anyway.
<<

I could find just what you want in my catalogs for Odyssey and Worden, the
two big lamp form and pattern companinies. Worden has a pattern for a
hanging lotus but it is in the lotus flower shape. Worden also has forms
that would seem adaptable to the size shape you desire. My recommendation is
that you get next to a Worden catalog and use your imagination. Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 23:07:34 1999
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X-Path: fair.net!andor
From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Ska virus spreads via internet
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:46:16 -0500
Message-ID: <199902070547.AAA02975@smtp.america.net>
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Stephen,
I am just posting this in regard to the Happy99 virus. I don't have your
e-mail so I am just posting this to the board.  It is instructions on how to
remove it.
Linda Jo

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3652/SKA.HTM


begin 666 Ska virus spreads via internet.url
M6TEN=&5R;F5T4VAO<G1C=71=#0I54DP]:'1T<#HO+W=W=RYG96]C:71I97,N
M8V]M+U-I;&EC;VY686QL97DO2&5I9VAT<R\S-C4R+U-+02Y(5$T-"DUO9&EF
8:65D/4$P0C@P1D)&-4,U,D)%,#$Y,PT*
`
end

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 23:14:01 1999
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From: MISGLAS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: RE: Bumper stickers
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:51:53 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.55153.0>
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All the suggestions thus far are creative and some ae very clever, but "Leaded
Be" tops them all, IMHO.  Kathi from Wisconsin
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  6 23:59:49 1999
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X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage
From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:06:09 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.1569.0>
Precedence: bulk

Shirley,

As usual your stepping stone info and advice is perfect.   You were of great
help to me last year when I struggled through some stepping stone problems.
I am printing up your post so that I can have a hard copy for future
reference.   I completely understand why Pam Burns-Tappan calls you her
stepping stone guru.     Way to go


Cheryl Parrott
The Glass Parrott



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 01:08:29 1999
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: celtic patterns
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 23:21:27 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.152127.0>
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Precedence: bulk

Just got a book of celtic designs for glass. goody goody goody . Cant
WAIT to finish The Clock from Hell so I can start one.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 04:21:15 1999
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: UK Bead exhibition info
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 10:48:24 +0000
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990207104824.007a37b0@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

In case any UK beadmakers havent heard about the exhibition at Broadfield
House Glass Museum here are the details we�ve just received.
It runs from 16 January to 11 April 1999, open Tuesdays to Sundays 2 pm to
5 pm - free admission.
Described on their leaflet as:
The UK�s first ever exhibition dedicated to glass beads and beadwork,
bringing together work from Africa, Asia, the Americas and Europe. Explore
the stunning variety of glass beads, in costume, jewellery and accessories,
from ancient Roman times to UK artists working today.
On the 20 March someone called Chris Watts (over from the USA) will be
demonstrating cane-pulling and lampworking. 
Contact the Museum on 01384 812745 for a leaflet.
Sounds well worth the trip to the West Midlands so we will try to get up
there some time during the exhibition.
Elizabeth
Elizabeth Law
Bournemouth Stained Glass
790 Wimborne Road
Bournemouth
Dorset
BH9 2DX
Tel : 01202 514734
Fax : 01202 250239
htp://www.stainedglass.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 04:51:22 1999
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From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: <Glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Ska virus spreads via internet
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 03:47:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb6.194743.0>
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Linda,

just wanted to say thanks again for sending the info this past week on how
to get rid of that nasty virus.  Now if you can just get rid of this virus
in my head I will be really really really happy.   I'm tired of blowing my
nose every few minutes and my throat is killing me.

Cheryl
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
To: bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 11:12 PM
Subject: Ska virus spreads via internet


>Stephen,
>I am just posting this in regard to the Happy99 virus. I don't have your
>e-mail so I am just posting this to the board.  It is instructions on how
to
>remove it.
>Linda Jo
>
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3652/SKA.HTM
>
>
>



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 08:25:09 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Molly Keys <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: art fair jurying
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 10:12:40 -0500
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Molly Keys wrote:


what are they looking for now?

when the contest was in my area, (i wich they stil had it). they had
different catagories:

best 3-d
best lamp
best panel
most original
peoples choice

and at the beggining best begginers project. but they stopped that do to
the over whelming amount of book made suncatchers. each catagory had
1st, 2nd, 3rd, and honarable mention places. 

the original design had to be yours. you could enter a book design
though. 

we simply brought the pieces in, i think it cost $5.00 for the first one
and $3.00 for the others. panels i think could'nt me more then 3' x 3'.
and 3-d could'nt cover an are larger then 2' i think. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 08:55:11 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:16:21 +0000
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The latest bulletin as stated by long-suffering friends:
E is more argumentative and cantankerous, so she MUST be on the mend!
;-O)

But where are the BIOS Patrick??
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Uh oh... "E" is starting to feel better, I guess the medicines or kicking
in.

Welcome back Elisabeth.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 09:08:21 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:16:21 +0000
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Aw Shucks, Kathe!
Sorry about the mushrooms! They were out of season and the blue 
ink-caps from the wheatfield down the road had not yet made their 
appearance.
Next time you must try my homebrew (about 9 gallons!!)

In any case, it would be pretty boring if everybody were on their 
"best behaviour"  ;-)

My anchovy dish got rudely rejected by most; though it did lead to an 
offer of temporary employment as anchovy cook somewhere in Colorado 
where I had previously applied for a job as a factory cleaner  ;->

I received my first American dinner date last summer. Provided it 
(i.e. the dinner - not the "date") wasn't cooked then, I'll probably 
survive to do another s.g. workshop.
And I still don't know what a "Phillysteak" is, Ah well....

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK



Kathe McDonald (a Chartres veteran) wrote:
Come on, folks, let's don't get Elisabeth riled up (English chick).  I 
 fear that these frequent illnesses she's had of late could be stress 
related.....what with these tales of how us Yanks eat. Don't worry 
Elisabeth...we'll all be on our good behavior and won't subject you to any 
culinary frights.  We're all in for a treat....I've spent more than a few 
nights raising a glass with her and she's only better in person.  I, for 
one,can't wait until she gets over here.  I want to know, however, how come 
I didn't get the mushrooms with my breakfast????

  

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 09:22:40 1999
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Brass rings wasRe: questions from Shirley G
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 10:31:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.53136.0>
References: <<1999Feb6.0112.0>>
Precedence: bulk



Shirley Balloch wrote:

> Are you sure it is a brass ring.  If you are using a metal ring
> purchased at a craft store(for machrame or dreamcatchers), then they are
> not brass and are coated with somekind of plastic.

Not sure what kind of metal the ring is?  Why not just wire the suncatcher
onto the ring if you are sure you can solder it on.  Flip the suncatcher
over, lay the ring over it and mark wherever the ring crosses a solder
line.  Pick 3-4 of the surdiest points and solder a length of wire there.
Clean up, then wrap the wire around the ring and tighten it.  (Of course, if
the whole thing fits inside the ring, this won't work...)

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 10:28:10 1999
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From: "Molly Keys" <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
To: <esavad@home.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: art fair jurying
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:06:20 -0600
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I think you misunderstood me.  The jurying is for acceptance to the show.
The awards part is not decided until all the booths are set up and then
those are judged on originality,  best display, and best of categories.
Hope this helps.
Molly
-----Original Message-----
From: M. Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Molly Keys <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
Cc: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: art fair jurying


>Molly Keys wrote:
>
>
>what are they looking for now?
>
>when the contest was in my area, (i wich they stil had it). they had
>different catagories:
>
>best 3-d
>best lamp
>best panel
>most original
>peoples choice
>
>and at the beggining best begginers project. but they stopped that do to
>the over whelming amount of book made suncatchers. each catagory had
>1st, 2nd, 3rd, and honarable mention places.
>
>the original design had to be yours. you could enter a book design
>though.
>
>we simply brought the pieces in, i think it cost $5.00 for the first one
>and $3.00 for the others. panels i think could'nt me more then 3' x 3'.
>and 3-d could'nt cover an are larger then 2' i think.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>--
>Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
>Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
>too and A Look at Sky City
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 11:27:08 1999
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From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: fish and veggies, Elizabeth
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:04:29 -0800
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Sounds like the *Christmas* finnish dish:
Herring...cooked potatoes and carrots, cooked beets and raw onions...all
tied together with whipping cream!
The palette (SP?) doesn't know what hit it:):) but it's rather colorful.
If you ever get to BC, Canada, Elizabeth, I'm sure my mother inlaw would
cook it up for you special!
Cindy:)

>Give me a couple of onions, some potatoes and a handful of anchovies 
>and I'll serve you up an anchovie dish you've never tasted before!!
>What's even better.... Toby doesn't like it, so there is more for 
>MEEEEE!
>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (both suffering from food fantasies!!)
>
>
>
>Shirley B wrote:
>How come no one mentioned Yorkshire Pudding?  Popovers baked in roast
>beef fat. My personal favorite from being raised by an English War Bride
>mother.
>Gotta say, after reading all these NG post, now I know why my mother is
>so fond of frying everything.  Although I still suspect it was cause she
>was/is such a busy person, it was done to save time.
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 11:40:53 1999
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From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: cutting zinc, now using zinc
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:04:49 -0800
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I'm not impressed with zinc came for framing.
I had done a *large* parrot window that sat in the house hanging for 4 - 5
years, then I sold it. Well much to my surprize, the zinc twisted in 2
corners. Kinda made me ill!!! So after that I decided zinc really needed to
be framed in wood, and shouldn't be left on it's own just hanging (if
there's any sort of weight to it).
Cindy

>I still want to know....
>Why, why do you need zinc came?
>Its lots of trouble, doesn't add any strength if the panel is framed or
>in an opening or other architectural setting,  So why?????????????
>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 11:57:43 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: cutting zinc
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:53:24 -0500
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Message text written by "Jak N Wolfy"
>Okay guys, I need some opinions here are you saying if you were making
sidelights that measure 8 inches by 83 inches would you use a zinc frame
around it or not?<

Absolutely.  And use Strong-Line or Re-strip internal reinforcement too.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 12:01:49 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: To buy or not to buy that is the question
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:53:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.75327.0>
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Just from your description of this guy having 400-500 full-sized
sheets of Armstrong/Spectrum/Art glass there, and assuming
"full-sized" means 8 square feet per sheet, you are looking at
at least $20,000 worth of glass just in the full-sized sheets!  And
he's throwing in all the equipment too?  For $10,000?  What a
deal!

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 12:16:51 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: art fair jurying
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:53:29 -0500
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Message text written by "Molly Keys"
>So put your thinking caps on and think of how you would like shows to be=
 =3D
juried.  What should the jurors be looking for?<

Hi there Molly.  I also am a juror for a Fine Arts & Crafts Festival.  We=

judge
by slides also.  Five slides representing the artist's style are required=
. =

We
look for originality of style - i.e. not just the same old patterns anyon=
e
can
purchase and build.  Consistency of vision throughout the 5 slides.
Technical ability (i.e. good soldering, good designs for the glass, glass=

selection which is appropriate to the subject matter, etc.).  Since this =
is
a
fine arts festival, we are also interested in ideas which expand the medi=
um
in some way.  New and interesting ways of using the glass.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 13:32:18 1999
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Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY!
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:24:22 -0500
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2/7/99 10:16 AM Toby toby@northlights.co.uk

>And I still don't know what a "Phillysteak" is, Ah well....

You can only get the real thing in Philly. People that move away have 
strong cravings for them. It's thin-sliced beef sauteed with onions, put 
into a long Italian roll usually with cheese over it (Philly 
cheesesteak). Good.

PA Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 13:58:28 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: I have a bee in my bonnet.
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 12:40:10 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.44010.0>
References: <<003201be521f$7ba187c0$af4f43ce@rjlcon>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Well I haven't found the unicorn yet, but I did find Endangered Species
by Juan Rodriguez at Foiled Again Stained Glass Studios in Monongahela,
PA.


Jak N Wolfy wrote:
> 
> Shirley, go to http://www.spectrumglass.com   On the first screen is an
> index, choose gallery and then The Unicorn or I think that's the name of it.
> It kind of reminds me of a Doolittle painting with the hidden things. I
> think it's really good idea if you have the patience to design it.

> 
> >I have been toying with this  idea.  My kids when they were little,
> >loved the hidden picture books.  I saw a panel(done by Robert Oddy, I am
> >pretty sure)that the outline of an animal was in the solder lines, but
> >not in the design.  Kind of like, do you see the vase or two profiles.
> >Anyway.  Wissmach puts out a lot of glass that looks pretty dull til you
> >get a bright light shinning through it.  And my idea is:  To make a
> >large suncatcher(12" dia.)that looks like one thing and then when a
> >bright light shines through it and only then, you can see other things
> >in the panel.  My first thought is a jungle scene, that only show
> >vegitation until a bright light hits it and then you see the jaguar
> >sleeping on the tree branch and the monkey swinging on the vine etc.
> >My question is.  Has anyone already done this(and I can't believe no one
> >ever has) and is there a site on the web to see it?
> >Thanks in advance.
> >Shirley B
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 17:30:38 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com, Molly Keys <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: art fair jurying
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 14:05:30 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.6530.0>
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Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

First off to get to this group, you should submit in text not html.
I do lots of craft shows.
My first impression of your post, is that you make the artist jump
through too many hoops and therefore have little regard for the
artist/vendor.
You want good artist?  In this day and age, crafts and art work are not
selling that well.  A lot of artist and crafters have quit doing events,
because it is not worth their while.  With that said.  Your attitude,
would be the first reason not to get vendors for your show.
Slides are a pain to submit.  Accept both prints and slides.  As long as
you can see the product clearly, then it should not be a problem. 
Personally I like prints better.  It is easier for an individual to weed
out the competitors with prints.
Look at your jury from the artist's point of view.  Your artist is not
going to want to present their product, if 3 other vendors are
presenting the same stuff.
You want a variety.
As for workmanship, for small articles, like suncatchers, it really
isn't that important.  The customer usually likes the overall effect. 
Not the workmanship. And they are not educated to the difference.  Plus
poor workmanship is usually because the artist is new to the art, so
allowing him into your show, will be helping an aspiring artist.
If someone is selling large panels, over 18 square inches, then
workmanship is very important, and I would want some sort of example and
or voucher from satisfied customers.
Glass can be done in: panels, suncatchers, boxes, free standing items
like angels, lamps, clocks, pot stickers(designs on brass rods for your
potted plants and gardens), mobiles, cubes(clear glass with sand and
shells(etc.) in the cube),and the latest is stepping stones in various
sizes, which has led to wrought iron tables and benches and sundials.
I would suggest that the artist have several price ranges with their
product.
I would also suggest that you require a picture of their booth or a
design plan of their booth.
If you choose 3 different glass artist, who each sell something
different, your customers will have a good variety and not be
overwhelmed with glass products.
And artist make a living at this.  You need to have some sort of
loyality to your artist.  I personally think, that if they did well the
first year and want to come back, that they get first acceptance to your
show for the next 2 years, no questions asked.  After the 3 year of
presenting at your show, then they need to rejury.
We vendors know what shows are good and know approx. how much we will
make at a show.  We face being rained or blown out.  We face some other
unknown event to ruin the event sales.  We(the vendors) should at least
be assured that for 2 years in a row we will be invited back!
The majority of vendors are not Mom and Pop working at the kitchen
table.  They are professionals with thousands of dollars worth of
equipment who work in their in home shops and take off on the weekend to
see if they made any money.  I am talking about crafters, I can not
speak for artist, I only do craft shows.
Thank you for asking.
Shirley B
Did I leave anything out group or did this come across too harsh?
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 17:47:01 1999
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: To buy or not to buy that is the question
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:04:31 -0800
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I got in late on this one and have deleted some of the prior posts......

400 to 500 of spectrum and Armstrong should not be included as art glass.

One can probably get some of that stuff for around $2.00 sq/ft and HAVE
their choice of glass, I for one would want an inventory of the #'s. If you
can only use half the price becomes double and then you have to "store" it.
 later, H



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 17:52:11 1999
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:45:16 EST
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In a message dated 2/7/99 12:13:51 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>Steve the Concrete guy who is my teacher, says metal reinforcement isnt
>necessary.  He uses something called stealth fiber, which I buy from
>him.  It is a short white very fine fiber.  I dont know what it is made
>from.

I'd guess some kind of polyester or polypropylene (or maybe fiberglass, but
these days I'd think it's less likely). I could see where that might have
several advantages including

(1) providing a strengthening matrix all through the piece, unlike the
customary flat net of screen wire

(2) I wonder if its thermal expansion/contraction properties are similar to
concrete's? if so, that cuts down on weather-related stresses

(3) unlike wire mesh it won't rust, so if by some accident you do knock a
chunk of concrete off, you don't end up with ugly reddish-brown streaks like
you do eventually if you've got wire sticking out in the rain.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 18:01:59 1999
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From: stainglasborzoi@webtv.net (GLORIA DRAG)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: 2 inch  round mirror
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:12:08 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.14128.0>
Precedence: bulk

A few mesages ago, someone requested how to  use their  Fletcher circle
cutter to cut 2 inch round mirror.. Better than that, National Artcraft
has 2" round mirror  for $2.20 per 10 pieces,  you would not have to
worry about mirror rot,- since they are a finished piece., no grinding.
And their  minimum order 
is $10.
  Gloria
"

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 18:08:26 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: NG fresh anchovies and Philly cheese steaks, was RE beef grease
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:45:14 EST
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In a message dated 2/6/99 11:19:37 PM, s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
wrote:

>But note everybody, the anchovies have to be fresh,

I didn't know there was such a thing as a fresh anchovy (she said, scuttling
for shelter).

>not those salted,
>oiled, and generally awful stuff usually found in non coastal states.

Around my house we refer to those as "road-kill fish."

When I was little, my mom used to get those little roll-top rectangular cans
of 'kippers." They smelled like something died. I always went outside when she
opened up one of those for lunch.

Of course I guess in all fairness I ought to admit that to my hypersensitive
nose, *any* fish that took more than about half a minute to get from swimming
to cooking smells like "the underneath side of the dock of the bay".........

Elisabeth: remind us Filthydelphians to take you out for a cheese steak while
you're here. They're goo-oo-oo-oo-ood stuff! (too bad Toby won't be along, I
guarantee he'd love 'em!)


Sparks
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To: suzy@ComCAT.COM, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY!
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:40:03 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.13403.0>
References: <<suzy@ComCAT.COM>>
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And in Pittsburgh in the strip district, you have Permanti's that add
the French fries with gravy over the same sandwich, quite the meal..


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Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY!
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2/7/99 10:16 AM Toby toby@northlights.co.uk

>And I still don't know what a "Phillysteak" is, Ah well....

You can only get the real thing in Philly. People that move away have 
strong cravings for them. It's thin-sliced beef sauteed with onions, put 
into a long Italian roll usually with cheese over it (Philly 
cheesesteak). Good.

PA Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 19:05:31 1999
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From: "Brian Dudack" <bdudack@mediaone.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE52D5.C921CDA0
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Help please anyone who has info on brass or copper piping to tubing. I =
am making garden stick and would like to know where to get them at a =
good price.

On another note My personal favorite bumper sticker is=20

Give blood
become a stained glass artist

cathie

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE52D5.C921CDA0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Help please anyone who has info on =
brass or=20
copper piping to tubing. I am making garden stick and would like to know =
where=20
to get them at a good price.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>On another note My personal favorite bumper sticker =
is=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Give blood</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>become a stained glass artist</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>cathie</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE52D5.C921CDA0--

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 19:25:42 1999
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Results of Wayne and Susan's show?
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:09:48 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.14948.0>
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Hey ...... Wayne and Susan Blake. Whatever happened at your show. Did you
make sooooo much money you decided to vacation in the Bahamas or what.

Inquiring minds want to know ......all the details (not the scandals too
much of that going on in the US now)

Notice to all :

After Action Reports are the price you pay for all this mentoring and
cheerleading from the group.


......... smile   ....................



Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 19:43:45 1999
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <Witchdoc3@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:15:31 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.141531.0>
Precedence: bulk

This sounds like shredded fiberglass, or carbon fiber. It is used to
strengthen the concrete without the use of rebar (wire).

Stealth fiber ....... sounds like everybody is trying to cash in on the
Stealth Fighter. I think I'll develop Stealth Gloves so I don't have to
bleed all over my workbench.

-----Original Message-----
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com <Witchdoc3@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice


>
>In a message dated 2/7/99 12:13:51 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>>Steve the Concrete guy who is my teacher, says metal reinforcement isnt
>>necessary.  He uses something called stealth fiber, which I buy from
>>him.  It is a short white very fine fiber.  I dont know what it is made
>>from.
>
>I'd guess some kind of polyester or polypropylene (or maybe fiberglass, but
>these days I'd think it's less likely). I could see where that might have
>several advantages including
>
>(1) providing a strengthening matrix all through the piece, unlike the
>customary flat net of screen wire
>
>(2) I wonder if its thermal expansion/contraction properties are similar to
>concrete's? if so, that cuts down on weather-related stresses
>
>(3) unlike wire mesh it won't rust, so if by some accident you do knock a
>chunk of concrete off, you don't end up with ugly reddish-brown streaks
like
>you do eventually if you've got wire sticking out in the rain.
>
>
>Sparks
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 19:53:55 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!MD6868
From: MD6868@aol.com
To: toby@northlights.co.uk, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY!
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:41:31 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.24131.0>
Precedence: bulk

Elizabeth,

A "Phillysteak" aka a "Philly Cheesesteak" is in its east coast version, a
very thinly sliced steak, (often rib -eye) sandwich, which consists of the
aforesaid steak, fried in a pan, or best on a griddle, in some butter or oil,
and served on a crisp warm French roll. Variatiions on the theme include
melting of cheese on it, adding grilled onions and or peppers. Truly
delicious, but not on the healthy heart list. West coast variations might add
lettuce and tomato, pickles, hot peppers, avocado (ugh) of almost anything
else. But as in most things, the purest version is the best. Having spent the
first 35yrs on the East coast and the last 15 in California, I've learned that
the same food item in two different areas might be completely different. 

For example, ordering coffee "regular" in the mid Atlantic states will get you
coffee with milk and sugar added, but elsewhere, regular means "black", or
nothing added. 

The sandwich I described above is, in different parts of the US, known as a
"Sub," Hero, Hogie, or in the New England states, it probably would be called
a "Steak Grinder". Clear as mud ? Good. Just wait. Lot of things go by
different names on this side of the pond.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 20:07:41 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!MD6868
From: MD6868@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: NG German anyone?
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:54:11 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.25411.0>
Precedence: bulk

	Since we are such a diverse and multi - talented group (can't you tell I want
something ?) I thought someone could help with a German translation.

As confirmed boomers, my wife and I just fell in love with the new Volkswagen
Beetle, and so, I was fortunate enough to get one for her recently. We had
numerous bugs over the years, and even had a new one in 1967, which cost
exactly 1/10th of what the new one did. We just love the car, and have a rear
license plate frame slogan that takes after a VW ad which says " Hug it ?
Drive it? on the top, and on the bottom says "Ginny's New Beetle. Even though
the new one is assembled in Mexico, all the mechanicals are German, and we
thought it would be fun to replicate this on a front plate frame, it
German.... Can anyone tell me how to say "Hug it ? Drive it ?, and
" Ginny's (short for Virginia) New Beetle?? I think the word for beetle is
Kafer, but I'm not sure.

Thanks

Richard
Glassics Artglass
MD6868@aol'com
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 20:30:42 1999
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From: GlsWorks@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Craft Show Listing
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:08:00 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.380.0>
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know the web site that lists craft shows by state?  I recall
seeing this site and can't find the address.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 20:46:45 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: art fair jurying
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 21:54:44 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.155444.0>
References: <<1999Feb7.6530.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> If someone is selling large panels, over 18 square inches, then
> workmanship is very important, and I would want some sort of example and
> or voucher from satisfied customers.


What do you mean by *example*, Shirley?  *And*, assuming you have good
shots of your work, why the voucher from a satisfied customer?

Personally, I have never sold a large panel, but you can be sure If I
were to take one to a show it would be as good a quality or better than
anything else I took to a show.

By that standard, I wouldnt be able to do a juried show until I sold at
least one large panel and asked my customer for a letter of
recommendation...    hmmmmmmmmmm...if you cant get into a show, and you
work at home, how are you gonna sell that panel??  Get your friends and
family that you have given your work to to stand up for you?  Not
exactly unbiased.  They want you to give them more.

PLEASE......Leave some room for some of us newcomers to get in.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 20:54:44 1999
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: hidden figures in glass
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 19:39:38 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.113938.0>
References: <<000801be5300$ad616820$a575c7d0@bankers>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

> >> Shirley,
> >>
> >> Well, I didn't find the panel I remember... it is of a jungle, and if you
> >> look closely you could pick out animals.  But, I did find a couple of
> things
> >> that may provide inspiration for you.... this fellow is an incredible
> glass
> >> artist.  I always drool when I look at his pages.... hope this helps.
> >>
> >> Dale
> >>
> >> 12 Asian Year Cycle Depicted
> >>
> >> http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~itashiro/html-data/gpage9.html
> >>
> >> Cat Lamp
> >>
> >> http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~itashiro/html-data/gpage12.html
> >>
> >> let me know if you have trouble with the links....
> >>
> >> the main page is at:
> >> http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~itashiro/index.html
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 21:02:13 1999
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:35:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.17358.0>
Precedence: bulk

Brian,

You can get brass welding rods at a weld shop..  Come in different widths and lengths..



Karen

PS...... you can get rid of the extra stuff on your post if you change your settings to Plain Text  instead of MIME





>This is a multi-part message in MIME format..

>

>------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE52D5..C921CDA0

>Content-Type: text/plain;

> charset="iso-8859-1"

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

>Help please anyone who has info on brass or copper piping to tubing.. I =

>am making garden stick and would like to know where to get them at a =

>good price..

>

>On another note My personal favorite bumper sticker is=20

>

>Give blood

>become a stained glass artist

>

>cathie

>

>------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE52D5..C921CDA0

>Content-Type: text/html;

> charset="iso-8859-1"

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">

><HTML>

><HEAD>

>

><META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =

>http-equiv=3DContent-Type>

><META content=3D'"MSHTML 4..72..3110..7"' name=3DGENERATOR>

></HEAD>

><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>

><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Help please anyone who has info on =

>brass or=20

>copper piping to tubing.. I am making garden stick and would like to know =

>where=20

>to get them at a good price..</FONT></DIV>

><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

><DIV><FONT size=3D2>On another note My personal favorite bumper sticker =

>is=20

></FONT></DIV>

><DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

><DIV><FONT size=3D2>Give blood</FONT></DIV>

><DIV><FONT size=3D2>become a stained glass artist</FONT></DIV>

><DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

><DIV><FONT size=3D2>cathie</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

>

>------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE52D5..C921CDA0--

>

>----

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>Archives available at http://www..bungi..com/glass

>



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 21:17:56 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: NG E and food stuff
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 22:11:46 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb7.161146.0>
Precedence: bulk

Elisabeth...

While in the States (probably Fla)  Keep an eye out for a krispy kreme
shop.  Make whoever is driving you stop immediately and go in and try
the best donut of your life.  

Those were my favorite part of growing up in Georgia.  Havent been
available anywhere else I have lived. :o(  Oh yeah, and some boiled
peanuts.  Yuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmm!

 Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 21:36:44 1999
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: MD6868@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY!
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 20:01:36 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.12136.0>
References: <<1999Feb8.24131.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

MD6868@aol.com wrote:
> 
>  Having spent the
> first 35yrs on the East coast and the last 15 in California, I've learned that
> the same food item in two different areas might be completely different.
> 

as in Chinese food. The inland Northwest version of "chinese food" is
NOTHING like the Boston version of Chinese food. Lets just say that chun
king out of a can is looking mighty good these days.......I never saw so
much garbage pretending to be chinese.....
>
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 21:49:41 1999
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: to the glass and grub club
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:19:21 -0800
Message-ID: <199902080419.UAA16623@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

I think we should change our name from glass@ bungi to the above.  I've
learned not to read my email when I'm hungry (except for the anchovey
thing...yetch...I'm with Toby on that one.  I'd call him a dog with taste,
except for the hairy Irish mutton leg thing.

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
http://come.to/The_E-Tour

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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <MD6868@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY!
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:48:40 -0800
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AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THe bread here WEST COAST....OREGON is nothing like the bread back east.
NEVER had pizza (east coast) server with *&^%$&*&*PINEAPPLE!
Back east THIN crust and the oil dripped down you arm!

ON AND ON!    one redeeming thing here Dungeness crab, beat the heck out the
mini-crabs on the east coast. No stripped bass, but steelhead aint bad!
My monitor is POOFED and it is like looking at a ploar bear in a snow
storm........new meaning to "touch" typing
later, H

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 22:00:47 1999
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>, <GlsWorks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Craft Show Listing
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:05:53 -0500
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I found this one but there is another even better, I'll keep looking.

http://www.artandcraftshows.net/

Karen



>Does anyone know the web site that lists craft shows by state?  I recall
>seeing this site and can't find the address.
>----
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>


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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 22:13:33 1999
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: <GlsWorks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Craft Show Listing
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:14:44 -0500
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Found another one, didn't have time to check out the different links at
it.

http://www.craftsfaironline.com/Listings.html

Karen
Think Spring!


>Does anyone know the web site that lists craft shows by state?  I recall
>seeing this site and can't find the address.
>----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  7 23:09:41 1999
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Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 00:15:37 -0600
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http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Park/1644/

There isnt much there...but if your in Pa....lot more than in Ok.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 00:01:11 1999
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Subject: RE:  Garden Sticks
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 01:39:08 -0500
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Brian,
You can get brass welding rods at a weld shop. Come in different widths
and lengths.

Karen


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 02:08:51 1999
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Brian,
You can get brass welding rods at a weld shop. Come in different widths
and lengths.

Karen


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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
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Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY!
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 23:27:30 -0800
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Organization: Maiden Concepts
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Shirley Balloch wrote:
> 
> Hey Howard,
> The shrimp and razor back clams aren't bad either.
> Shirley B 15 miles up the road.
> 
> Howard wrote:
> >
> > AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > THe bread here WEST COAST....OREGON is nothing like the bread back east.
> > NEVER had pizza (east coast) server with *&^%$&*&*PINEAPPLE!
> > Back east THIN crust and the oil dripped down you arm!
> >
> > ON AND ON!    one redeeming thing here Dungeness crab, beat the heck out the
> > mini-crabs on the east coast. No stripped bass, but steelhead aint bad!
> > My monitor is POOFED and it is like looking at a ploar bear in a snow
> > storm........new meaning to "touch" typing
> > later, H

-- 
x�>"3
�
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 04:44:05 1999
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Slogan
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:39:56 -0500
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Okay, heres my input.....

"Lead, follow, or get the h*ll out of the way!"

But then my personal motto is one from Rear Admiral Grace Hopper, "It is easier to ask forgiveness that it is to get permission."

Linda Campbell
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 05:45:53 1999
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Subject: Re: Craft Show Listing
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:40:58 -0600
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try 222.craftsfaironline.com
-----Original Message-----
From: GlsWorks@aol.com <GlsWorks@aol.com>
To: Glass@bungi.com <Glass@bungi.com>
Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 10:38 PM
Subject: Craft Show Listing


>Does anyone know the web site that lists craft shows by state?  I recall
>seeing this site and can't find the address.
>----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 06:09:42 1999
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From: Daniel Overbay <dro@teleport.com>
To: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
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Subject: Re: Slogan
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 05:04:14 -0800
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Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> Okay, heres my input.....
> 
> "Lead, follow, or get the h*ll out of the way!"
===========================================



that's good how about 

"lead, foil, or get the hell out of the way!"


Daniel
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 06:47:00 1999
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Subject: Dale Chihuly Billboards
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:44:20 -0500
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Our local newspaper has prepared a slide show of the billboards announcing the upcoming Dale Chihuly exhibit. See it at:

http://www.pilotonline.com/

linda
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 07:47:06 1999
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Subject: Re: Craft Show Listing
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 09:39:47 -0500
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GlsWorks@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know the web site that lists craft shows by state?  I recall
> seeing this site and can't find the address.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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http://www.artandcraftshows.net/

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 08:05:02 1999
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To: "'GLASS@BUNGI.COM'" <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
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Subject: NEw Grinder Bit is Chipping Glass
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:11:23 -0500
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I just put a new bit on my grinder (Diamond Max) and it is chipping glass 
on the bottom side, even with the slightest touch. I thought maybe I was 
trying to use the area too close th the edge of the bit so I moved it down 
some. It is still chipping the under side of my glass. I don't remember 
this happening when it was new. Anyone have suggestions?

Thanks,

LInda Campbell
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 08:48:48 1999
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From: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: molds
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:41:47 -0500
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Hi Jane,

If the mold is semi-spherical you have three options:


1. Get a woodworker to use a lathe to make you the mold. 

And the do-it-yourselfer:

1. Find a Styrofoam half-sphere. I was able to find 13" in diameter.

2. Find a book on drafting for engineering. In the section solids,
   find spheres. there are two ways to make a sphere: with gores and
   with concentrical cones. Both are relatively easy. Then assemble
   one with strong cardboard. This is essentially the way that
   spherical tanks are build out of metal sheet for engineering
   purposes.


bareFoot


--
Daniel M. German                  "Technology now more often
                                   arouses apocalyptic ecstasies
                                   or visions of the kingdom of God
   Jacques Ellul ->                than rational reflection"
http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca

 
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 09:51:52 1999
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Subject: Re: art fair jurying
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>
>Shirley,
>Loved what you had to say!!
>Great stuff.
>Cindy
>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 10:16:42 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: NEw Grinder Bit is Chipping Glass
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 12:14:41 -0500
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Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> I just put a new bit on my grinder (Diamond Max) and it is chipping glass
> on the bottom side, even with the slightest touch. I thought maybe I was
> trying to use the area too close th the edge of the bit so I moved it down
> some. It is still chipping the under side of my glass. I don't remember
> this happening when it was new. Anyone have suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> LInda Campbell
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it's a new bit it happens. let it wear a little and it should'nt chip as
much. the glass may be too soft. or the bit is'nt a fine bit. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 10:55:13 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: art fair jurying
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:36:53 -0500
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Message text written by Shirley Balloch
>Did I leave anything out group or did this come across too harsh?<

Yep, did come across as harsh.  You actually insulted the
lady who did the original post.  Must have hit a sore spot.
I didn't read her post as being as insulting to artists/craftspeople.

And I beg to differ on some of your points.  I view jurying as
a process whereby the show organizers can establish a
general "feel" for the show, and eliminate obvious crafts &
artworks which do not fit that "feel".  For instance, the one
in which I am active right now is attempting to establish a
new Contemporary Fine Arts & Crafts show in a location
which has traditionally only had country crafts.  So the object
of our jurying is to weed out the country crafts in favor
of more contemporary art & crafts.  The village has 3 other
shows which feature country crafts, so we are trying to keep
this one strictly contemporary.

Also, I beg to differ with you about sloppiness being the
hallmark of a young crafter.  When jurying by slides, age,
race, gender and social background of the artist is not
known to the juror.  The major criteria we are looking for
is 1) contemporary style  2) excellence of craftsmanship
(since our target audience is sophistocated)  3) variety
of styles  4) variety of media.  I'm sure other shows will have
different jurying criteria, but these are ours.  This lets in
amatures as well as professionals, as long as they meet
our vision.

I do like the idea of inviting some crafters/artists back
the following year, waiving the jurying process.  This is
frequently done, particularly to winners in each media
category.  We will do the same, but this is our first year
so everyone has to be juried.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 11:35:42 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: art fair jurying
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:36:50 -0500
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Message text written by Carol Swann
>Or have each artist submit an
actual piece for review.  That's quite common. Or allow state of the art
submissions...video or digital.<

Hi Carol.  Thanks for the input, but I beg to differ on our
opions here.  I have only once submitted acutal pieces
for a show, and vowed to never do that again.  For one
thing, it is difficult enough to transport my stained glass
pieces to/from a show, much less expose them to an
additional transport to/from jurying, and not knowing who
would be handling the artwork, and how careful they =

might/might not be with my work.  What happens if they
break it during jurying?

Invariably the actual pieces are not properly lighted for glass,
particularly in an open media show.  So I prefer to handle
my own lighting of my own artwork, and photograph them
in both slide & print film.  I always take several shots of
the same subject, bracketing them as per photographing
crafts (particularly glass) in the Steve Metzer book "Pho-
tographing Crafts".  This way I not only have my print
portfolio, but I also have a slide portfolio.  Whenever I need
to submit slides for jurying, I bring out the slide portfolio
and select my best shots.  I photograph subjects as they
are completed, and always take camera & tripod to each
installation, so as to not inconvenience my clients more
than necessary.

Jurying by slides is still the accepted medium.  And in
my show, the judges are being asked to judge artwork
using a common denominator - slides.  This way all
artists are at least given the same playing field to start.
It makes it a hardship on the judges to be asked to
judge all different kinds of media based on a variety
of stuff like prints, slides, drawings, and actual artwork.
So, we prefer to just use slides.

Maybe someday video and digital will be a standard
method of jurying pieces, but not right now.

Anyway...my $.02 worth.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 11:36:19 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: NG glass & grub, was ENUF ALREADY
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:32:35 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.173235.0>
Precedence: bulk


Also sprach Howard:

>THe bread here WEST COAST....OREGON is nothing like the bread back east.

Maybe not in Oregon, but nothing, and I do mean *nothing*, in the bread
department on either end of the country compares to real San Francisco
sourdough, extra sour, fresh from the oven!

First runner-up: the flour tortillas my best friend's mom used to make when I
was in grade school......... we'd eat them hot off the griddle until we were
stuffed.


Sparks, trying to fight off a bad set of cravings :-(
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 16:18:37 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NEw Grinder Bit is Chipping Glass
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:36:13 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.23613.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>I just put a new bit on my grinder (Diamond Max) and it is chipping glass
on the bottom side, even with the slightest touch. I thought maybe I was
trying to use the area too close th the edge of the bit so I moved it down
some. It is still chipping the under side of my glass. I don't remember
this happening when it was new. Anyone have suggestions?

Thanks,

LInda Campbel<<l

My first thought was that the head was to high but you have eliminated that
as a cause of your chipping.

New heads may need a period of run in before they work best. Try gringing
for about five minutes with a piece of thick, like 1/4", glass for about
five minutes. If that does not cure the problem then return the head for a
replacement/refund.

Also inspect the head to make sure it is not out of round by a slight
degree. Uneven wear around the used area is a sign of excentricity. Reject
such a bit as if will have a short life.

When you think of the low price of these diamond bits it becomes clear that
not a great deal of guality control is allowed for.

Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 16:18:48 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: art fair jurying
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:16:46 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.181646.0>
References: <<1999Feb7.75329.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello folks!

I have just come back from adjudicating an award for mid-course glass
students on a degree course for the Scottish Glass Society.  So these
are the considerations we have in our minds when judging for the
award(s)

First - have in mind the objectives of the event/award/etc.
Second - get some background on the entrants (supplied by them, of
course)
Third - actual viewing - three parts
        A - originality -  e.g., of subject, type of work, use of
material
        B - technique - e.g., technical quality, finish, attention to
detail
        C - overall reaction - i.e. personal impression
These three are marked out of 10, or 5 or what ever range is desirable,
but all judges must use the same range, so 10 is what SGS uses.

Fourth - add up the scores and rank in order up to the number of
awards/entries, etc.

Fifth - compare with other judges.  All those which did not make it onto
the top on anyone's list are eliminated.  Alternatively, stages 4 & 5
can be combined, so that any entries which make it over some score are
accepted, whether that is a score predetermined or based on a
distribution curve ( e.g. any entry making it over 60% (or any other
level determined after the scoring) of the combined judges scores would
be accepted)

Sixth - confer with other judges on the borderline cases (either top or
bottom, or marginal)

Anyway that's the way we judged a number of works today and awarded a
100 UK pounds prize to a student.  It wasn't easy, as we quickly got
down to 4, and 5 minutes later to 3.  Another 15 minutes got us down to
2.  But it was another hour before we selected the winner.  It was all
amicable, but strong views had to be reconciled.

Steve



In message <1999Feb7.75329.0@?>, Christie A. Wood
<Ensembles@compuserve.com> writes
>Message text written by "Molly Keys"
>>So put your thinking caps on and think of how you would like shows to be=
> =3D
>juried.  What should the jurors be looking for?<
>
>Hi there Molly.  I also am a juror for a Fine Arts & Crafts Festival.  We=
>
>judge
>by slides also.  Five slides representing the artist's style are required=
>. =
>
>We
>look for originality of style - i.e. not just the same old patterns anyon=
>e
>can
>purchase and build.  Consistency of vision throughout the 5 slides.
>Technical ability (i.e. good soldering, good designs for the glass, glass=
>
>selection which is appropriate to the subject matter, etc.).  Since this =
>is
>a
>fine arts festival, we are also interested in ideas which expand the medi=
>um
>in some way.  New and interesting ways of using the glass.
>
>Christie A. Wood
>Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
>P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
>http://www.igga.org/wood/
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 16:19:00 1999
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X-Path: city-net.com!dany
From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: <MD6868@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG German anyone?
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:32:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.103224.0>
Precedence: bulk


Tranlsations are always tough when trying to convey the same meaning with
the same sound.

Here is what I would say:  Liebst Du ihn?  F=E4hrst Du ihn?, Ginny's neue=
r
K=E4fer .  But it doesn't have the same ring.  Maybe Lieb' ihn - fahr' ih=
n!

Beetles are great  - I had an old 69 beetle and loved him!!

There are some other Germans on this list maybe they can respond as well.

Viel Spass mit dem Fahrvergn=FCgen!!!!!


Dany
>-----Original Message-----
>From: MD6868@aol.com <MD6868@aol.com>
>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 11:03 PM
>Subject: NG German anyone?
>
>
>> Since we are such a diverse and multi - talented group (can't you tell=
 I
>want
>>something ?) I thought someone could help with a German translation.
>>
>>As confirmed boomers, my wife and I just fell in love with the new
>Volkswagen
>>Beetle, and so, I was fortunate enough to get one for her recently. We =
had
>>numerous bugs over the years, and even had a new one in 1967, which cos=
t
>>exactly 1/10th of what the new one did. We just love the car, and have =
a
>rear
>>license plate frame slogan that takes after a VW ad which says " Hug it=
 ?
>>Drive it? on the top, and on the bottom says "Ginny's New Beetle. Even
>though
>>the new one is assembled in Mexico, all the mechanicals are German, and=
 we
>>thought it would be fun to replicate this on a front plate frame, it
>>German.... Can anyone tell me how to say "Hug it ? Drive it ?, and
>>" Ginny's (short for Virginia) New Beetle?? I think the word for beetle=
 is
>>Kafer, but I'm not sure.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Richard
>>Glassics Artglass
>>MD6868@aol'com
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>

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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: art fair jurying
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 12:54:38 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.45438.0>
References: <<1999Feb8.73650.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I agree, taking the product to be juried is a pain.  But the only one
that I ever did this for, was like an open cattle call(actor's term).
We all came with our product at the same time.  Were given a table and
an amount of time to set up a display. Then the judges walked around and
juried by a point system.  The display with the most points was invited
to the show.
Seemed very fair to me.  Being new to this, I appreciated the points I
got from observing and speaking to the other artists.  And the only one
that handled my product was me.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 16:48:00 1999
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X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj
From: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: molds
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:18:22 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.111822.0>
References: <<199902081541.KAA15135@violeta.dmg>>
Precedence: bulk

Over the weekend I was exploring some of the sites listed on the Bungi
home page and found a reference to mold making which sounded interesting.
The site was Tashiro Stained and Leaded Glass / Technical room / page 2.

http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~itashiro/html-data/tpage2.html

Gives a detailed description (with links to pictures) of the method.

He uses balsa wood to build up the mold.  I figured you could also use
sheets of styrofoam instead of balsa wood.

What do y'all think?

Jim

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 17:46:44 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: NG glass & grub, was ENUF ALREADY
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:30:47 EST
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In a message dated 2/8/99 11:36:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, Witchdoc3@aol.com
writes:

<< department on either end of the country compares to real San Francisco
 sourdough, extra sour, fresh from the oven! >>

I live in the bay area and agree with you that sourdough is very good...
but having had fresh Italian bread in Boston (the big twisted loaves with
sesame seeds on top), I must say it's a tie.





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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 17:57:19 1999
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: balloch@netbridge.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: I have a bee in my bonnet.
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:37:09 EST
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In a message dated 2/8/99 1:55:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
balloch@netbridge.net writes:

<< My best search was in excite by searching art"anamorphic" >>

adapting a pattern from Escher would also represent an interesting
stained glass challenge, it would probably be quite unique.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 18:09:13 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Stone info
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:08:12 -0600
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I sent out the way I do stones.  If I missed anyone that requested it,
let me know, and I will send it to you.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 18:50:25 1999
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Linda Campbell" <lcbell@memach.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NEw Grinder Bit is Chipping Glass
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:59:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.155959.0>
Precedence: bulk

It's unusual for the bit to chip the glass only on the bottom.  [I assume
that the glass is chipping on the underside of the piece]  A fast bit may
chip the full edge when new.  The only possible reason that I can see for
the problem is that your grinding table isn't flat.  That would tilt the
glass exposing the lower edge....You might remove the bit and lay a straight
edge across the table to see if it is even across.

Hope this helps...

Arnold
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: 'GLASS@BUNGI.COM' <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 11:20 AM
Subject: NEw Grinder Bit is Chipping Glass


>I just put a new bit on my grinder (Diamond Max) and it is chipping glass
>on the bottom side, even with the slightest touch. I thought maybe I was
>trying to use the area too close th the edge of the bit so I moved it down
>some. It is still chipping the under side of my glass. I don't remember
>this happening when it was new. Anyone have suggestions?
>
>Thanks,
>
>LInda Campbell
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 19:50:47 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG.....excentricity???
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:33:42 -0800
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>>Bob,

Can you define "excentricity" for those of us who skipped most of our
high school english classes.  <bg>  At first I tought it was a
typographical error.

Thanks,
Karen
Think Spring!<<

High school might not have helped. Centric is in the dictionary and means
having a center or many centers. Centricity is a sub word and means having
surface markings centrally arranged. The ex part= no longer.

Think I am now confused and will substitute the phrase, "out of round" in
reference to the grinding head that insists in chipping glass.

Bob
Grass is green here and the first California poppies are up.

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 20:00:32 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: molds
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:44:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.164458.0>
Precedence: bulk

I didn't know bungi *had a home page!  Where is it?

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  8 20:19:13 1999
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>, "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: NG.....excentricity???
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:25:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb8.172532.0>
Precedence: bulk


Bob,

Okay, now I get it.  What we would call  "lop-sided" in layman talk.

Karen
Grass is pale and mushy here and has several snowplow divets in it.
Maybe if I looked hard I could find the tip of a crocus or
daffadil......Nah!



>Bob wrote:
<big snip>

>Think I am now confused and will substitute the phrase, "out of round"
in
>reference to the grinding head that insists in chipping glass.
>
>Bob
>Grass is green here and the first California poppies are up.
>
>Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
>Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net
>


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 04:58:23 1999
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From: "Alex Gacic" <agacic@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Follow up to, to buy or not
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 03:53:19 PST
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.115319.0>
Precedence: bulk


Hi, everyone

Thanks for all the advice and info on buying out a glass business.

One thing I would like to add.  All of his sidelite, door and panel work 
was done using  copper foil.  He claimed that he developed and gets 
royalities from the black adhesive thats being  used on foil.  Probably 
not much judging from his surroundings.

He said he never uses lead came. What he does is use wider foil maybe 
1/4" or wider, then twists two lines of solder together, and then uses 
his big 300w iron to solder the joints. The tip on that iron is about 
3/4" wide.  I've seen some of his work, the joints looked good.  He also 
claims doing it this way prevents any sagging.  I would think that would 
be pretty weather tight too.

Thanks again
Alex Gacic
(looking for funds or a government grant)





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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 05:04:15 1999
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Bob E Duchesneau'" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: NG.....excentricity???
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:01:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.2118.0>
Precedence: bulk

The word you search for is ECCENTRITITY, pronounced "eks..."

It means having different centers, which would be out of round. Here in the 
ship repair business it refers to the difference in feet between the 
centerline of keel blocks and the center of gravity of a ship's weight. We 
pronounce it (maybe incorrectly) e-sen-tri-city. Help us to determine the 
loading at each point along the line of blocks a ship is docked on.

I've had some good input into why my bit is chipping the glass. I suspect 
the answer is that the table may not be sitting perpendicular to the bit. I 
will check it out later this week and report my findings. Thanks to all.

Linda


Can you define "excentricity" for those of us who skipped most of our
high school english classes.  <bg>  At first I tought it was a
typographical error.

Thanks,
Karen
Think Spring!<<


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 05:17:29 1999
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Suzanne'" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Stone info
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:04:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.2419.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanyou Suxanne, 

Very good details. I have printed it out for my files and plan to make a splash block this weekend. 

Linda


I sent out the way I do stones.  If I missed anyone that requested it,
let me know, and I will send it to you.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 05:37:56 1999
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From: "Evelyn C Mason" <ABBIE23875@prodigy.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Cold....
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:11:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.21117.0>
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There is frost on my windows and cold as heck here!

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 05:57:03 1999
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X-Path: city-net.com!dany
From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: <MD6868@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: NG German anyone?
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:04:50 -0500
Message-ID: <199902091249.HAA17977@dns.city-net.com>
Precedence: bulk

Sorry, the =E4 is the a umlaut (ae),
the =FC is the u umlaut (ue)

> 
> Here is what I would say:  Liebst Du ihn?  F=E4hrst Du ihn?, Ginny's
neue=
> r
> K=E4fer .  But it doesn't have the same ring.  Maybe Lieb' ihn - fahr'
ih=
> n!
> 
> Beetles are great  - I had an old 69 beetle and loved him!!
> 
> There are some other Germans on this list maybe they can respond as well.
> 
> Viel Spass mit dem Fahrvergn=FCgen!!!!!
> 

Dany
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 06:58:53 1999
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From: "Evelyn C Mason" <ABBIE23875@prodigy.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: cold in Va Laura
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:01:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.416.0>
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That sounds just about like us here except for the snow...we had cold rain
Sunday....only 30 degrees here this upcoming weekend ,too. Wishing for
springtime,Abbie.

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 07:05:46 1999
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X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj
From: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: molds
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:13:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.41351.0>
References: <<1999Feb8.164458.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Surely you jest.  It's in the footer added to every message.

 http://www.bungi.com/glass

Check it out, links to other SG sites and the entire archive of the group.

Jim

On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Dani Greer wrote:

> I didn't know bungi *had a home page!  Where is it?
> 

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 07:38:08 1999
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Follow up to, to buy or not
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:35:23 -0500
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2/9/99 6:53 AM Alex Gacic agacic@hotmail.com

>One thing I would like to add.  All of his sidelite, door and panel work 
>was done using  copper foil.  He claimed that he developed and gets 
>royalities from the black adhesive thats being  used on foil.  Probably 
>not much judging from his surroundings.
>
>He said he never uses lead came. What he does is use wider foil maybe 
>1/4" or wider, then twists two lines of solder together, and then uses 
>his big 300w iron to solder the joints. The tip on that iron is about 
>3/4" wide.  I've seen some of his work, the joints looked good.  He also 
>claims doing it this way prevents any sagging.  I would think that would 
>be pretty weather tight too.
>
>Thanks again
>Alex Gacic
>(looking for funds or a government grant)

Alex,

Thanks for sharing that with us. Very interesting!
Sorry I don't have any funds or grants.
Suzanne

>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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>
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 08:00:23 1999
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X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686
From: L Nelson <t6686@netusa1.net>
To: Evelyn C Mason <ABBIE23875@prodigy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Cold....
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 09:01:45 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.1145.0>
References: <<1999Feb9.21117.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Were are you??
I'm in Indiana and the sun is shinning and it's suppose to get up to 50
today and 65 tomorrow but then Fri and week-end it's going to be in the
30's and last Sunday (3) days ago it was snowing.... thant's good old
Indiana weather for you!!!
Laura

Evelyn C Mason wrote:

> There is frost on my windows and cold as heck here!
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 08:05:23 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: NG...interesting test
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 08:51:57 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.25157.0>
Precedence: bulk

See how intelligent you really are!!

A quick test of intelligence.
Don't cheat! Because if you did, the test would be no fun.
I promise, there are no tricks to this test.

Read this sentence:

FINISHED FILES ARE THE RE-
SULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIF-
IC STUDY COMBINED WITH
THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS.

Now count aloud the F's in that sentence.
Count them ONLY ONCE!! Don't go back, that's cheating!

See Answers Below.......



ANSWER:  There are six F's in the sentence.
One of average intelligence finds three of them.
If you spotted four, you are above average.
If you got five, you can turn your nose at most anybody.
If you caught six, you are a genius.
There is no catch.  Many people forget the "OF"'s.
The human brain tends to see them as V's and not F's.

Pretty weird, huh?
It fools almost everybody.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 10:01:17 1999
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Any info on courses in New Delhi India?
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 16:34:58 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.163458.0>
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Hello all, I have been contacted by an architect in New Delhi who wants to
start learning how to work in stained glass.
Do any bungians in that part of the country know of any formal courses
available I can direct him to? Or failing that any suggestions of studios
where he may be able to learn?
Regards
EliZabeth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 10:11:55 1999
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Teaching and Liability
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 08:51:10 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.05110.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

Does anyone require their students to sign a waiver of liability. I am
gathering all of my pre-reg forms together and wondered if this might be
a good document to include. More of a take this class at your own risk
type of form I suppose I should have said.

Yes I plan on teaching glass safety but I'm afraid of getting that one
person who gets a glass cut, no insurance and wants me to pay or worse
yet, sues the heck out of me. Does this concern anyone or am I being to
paranoid?

Thanks,

Pam

--
*********************************

Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

Moswood Mountain Limited
http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 20:16:56 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: art fair jurying
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:42:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.94218.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by INTERNET:balloch@netbridge.net
>We all came with our product at the same time.  Were given a table and
an amount of time to set up a display. Then the judges walked around and
juried by a point system.  The display with the most points was invited
to the show.<

Yuck.  I wouldn't have gone to this sort of "cattle call".  It takes me
at least 3 hours to set up my 10'x8' booth and get it loaded up =

and ready for a retail art fair show...5 hours if it's for a wholesale
show.  No way would I do that without first going through a jurying
process.  Wastes too much of my time.

This sounds OK for church-type craft shows where you are
all using 6' long tables for displays.  But not for professional
shows.  Certainly not for fine art fairs.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 20:29:22 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: NG.....excentricity???
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:01:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.10129.0>
Precedence: bulk

Grass is green and our California poppies are coming up,too... and I live=

in Colorado!! ;-)

best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 20:31:48 1999
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:31:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199902091925.OAA17953@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> Yes I plan on teaching glass safety but I'm afraid of getting that one
> person who gets a glass cut, no insurance and wants me to pay or worse
> yet, sues the heck out of me. Does this concern anyone or am I being to
> paranoid?

No, you're just being businesslike. Have your attorney draw up a 
simple form for students to use, waiving their rights to sue. It 
won't guarantee you won't be sued, but they will have been informed 
of their responsibility to look after themselves and to follow the 
safety precautions you tell them, making it much more difficult for 
them to hassle you with lawsuits. Of course, you'll have to be sure 
to tell them about any hazards, advise them to take whatever 
precautions are necessary, etc. Anyone who's lawsuit-happy won't sign 
it, which will be a clue to their motivations. I suspect everyone 
will do so.

Then it'll be up to you to be sure you carefully file those signed 
bits of paper away just in case someone *does make a claim. <smile>

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 20:44:31 1999
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X-Path: hbci.com!RMYNG98
From: "Ron Young" <RMYNG98@hbci.com>
To: "Dana at home" <marcogt@ecol.net>, <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NG...interesting test
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:30:28 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.93028.0>
Precedence: bulk


-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 6:00 PM
Subject: NG...interesting test


>See how intelligent you really are!!
>
>A quick test of intelligence.
>Don't cheat! Because if you did, the test would be no fun.
>I promise, there are no tricks to this test.
>
>Read this sentence:
>
>FINISHED FILES ARE THE RE-
>SULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIF-
>IC STUDY COMBINED WITH
>THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS.
>
>Now count aloud the F's in that sentence.
>Count them ONLY ONCE!! Don't go back, that's cheating!
>
>See Answers Below.......
>
>
>
>ANSWER:  There are six F's in the sentence.
>One of average intelligence finds three of them.
>If you spotted four, you are above average.
>If you got five, you can turn your nose at most anybody.
>If you caught six, you are a genius.
>There is no catch.  Many people forget the "OF"'s.
>The human brain tends to see them as V's and not F's.
>
>Pretty weird, huh?
>It fools almost everybody.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 20:58:02 1999
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X-Path: mindspring.com!juliam
From: "Julia Moseley" <juliam@mindspring.com>
To: "Pamela Burns-Tappan" <ptap@pacifier.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:11:03 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.12113.0>
Precedence: bulk

Pam,

When I took my first stained glass class, I signed a form waiving the
teacher's and the store's responsibility for any injuries. That seems fair
enough to me; ten or twelve novices with 100 watt irons waving around can be
a bit of a hazard. :-)

Julia Moseley
Kirkland, Washington
-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 8:49 AM
Subject: Teaching and Liability


>Hi all,
>
>Does anyone require their students to sign a waiver of liability. I am
>gathering all of my pre-reg forms together and wondered if this might be
>a good document to include. More of a take this class at your own risk
>type of form I suppose I should have said.
>
>Yes I plan on teaching glass safety but I'm afraid of getting that one
>person who gets a glass cut, no insurance and wants me to pay or worse
>yet, sues the heck out of me. Does this concern anyone or am I being to
>paranoid?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Pam
>
>--
>*********************************
>
>Pamela Burns-Tappan
>Executive Director
>The Stained Glass Artists
>http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists
>
>Moswood Mountain Limited
>http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
>http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 21:19:19 1999
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X-Path: fair.net!andor
From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Price for Overhead projector
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:45:31 -0500
Message-ID: <199902092146.QAA24107@smtp.america.net>
Precedence: bulk

I was out today and came across a overhead projector, the man bought from
the local college.  I didn't get the name of it but it is thing where you
put your something down on it and it projects on a wall or screen or what
have you.   He said he would sell me one for $55.00   Is that a good price?
I thought if it was a decent price I would use it to transfer or enlarge a
patterns.  Anyone have any input??
Thanks,
Linda Jo


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 21:31:06 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: art fair jurying
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:42:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.9428.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Carol Swann
>It must be nice to be able to afford 2 camera bodies. <

I can't afford 2 camera bodies either.  I have one camera
with tripod and remote release, and 2 photographer's
spot lights.  I load up the camera with one set of slide
film, shoot, reload with print film, shoot same subjects.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 21:39:00 1999
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X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: NEw Grinder Bit is Chipping Glass
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 99 18:10:06 
Message-ID: <199902100110.SAA26592@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

it's probably too rough a grind... get a fine..

Candy

On Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:36:13 -0800, Bob E Duchesneau wrote:

>>>I just put a new bit on my grinder (Diamond Max) and it is chipping glass
>on the bottom side, even with the slightest touch. I thought maybe I was
>trying to use the area too close th the edge of the bit so I moved it down
>some. It is still chipping the under side of my glass. I don't remember
>this happening when it was new. Anyone have suggestions?


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 21:52:12 1999
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X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells
From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Abrasive Blasting Pricing
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:31:40 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.163140.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey all....

I'm trying to expand a bit and was wondering if there are any pricing
formulas yall use for abrasive blast etching work?? I dont want to be to
high and scare people off and at the same time I dont want to be to low and
make nothing either... I realize that just as with panel work the more
detailed the work is the longer it takes and the price needs to climb
accordingly... I'd just like a starting point is all....Thats what I did
with panel work and have gradually gotten my prices where they need to be...

Thanks
Byron
Wells Glassworks

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 21:59:07 1999
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From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:25:52 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.162552.0>
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Hi Pam....

I would definitely include that in your forms.. Wont cost but a few cents a
copy... With all the ambulance chasers out there you cant be to careful...
Just never know when someone is looking for an easy score.... We like to
believe the best of folks but unfortuneately there are always a few rotten
apples...I had to sign a similar form for karate a few years back and have
signed them for other things... It's just covering yer own behind..

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 6:19 AM
Subject: Teaching and Liability


>Hi all,
>
>Does anyone require their students to sign a waiver of liability. I am
>gathering all of my pre-reg forms together and wondered if this might be
>a good document to include. More of a take this class at your own risk
>type of form I suppose I should have said.
>
>Yes I plan on teaching glass safety but I'm afraid of getting that one
>person who gets a glass cut, no insurance and wants me to pay or worse
>yet, sues the heck out of me. Does this concern anyone or am I being to
>paranoid?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Pam
>
>--
>*********************************
>
>Pamela Burns-Tappan
>Executive Director
>The Stained Glass Artists
>http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists
>
>Moswood Mountain Limited
>http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
>http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 22:07:08 1999
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From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: "Suzanne" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Printer review
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:50:42 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.165042.0>
Precedence: bulk

I've been looking for a larger printer to use with Glass Eye and such...
Since most of my panels are sidelights,transoms,cabinet doors etc I wanted
to be able to print them out on fewer sheets of paper..

I've been looking for several months at HPs and Epsons wider printers(they
will accept up to 11x17 paper) but have been put off by the $500 price tag
on them...The other day I was in Best Buy and they had a new Canon BJC-5000
for $199.... I tried the demo deal on it and it printed great on plain
paper. I figgured for 199 it was worth a shot...I brought it home and it
works great... Even does near photo quality with the optional cartridge...

I can now do a quicky full size printout for my customers without so much
taping together...

Anyway if anyone has been looking for a larger printer without having to get
a 2nd mortgage on the house ya cant beat this one...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 22:45:34 1999
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X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon
From: "Jak N Wolfy" <rjlcon@ticnet.com>
To: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Price for Overhead projector
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:55:41 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.175541.0>
Precedence: bulk

Linda, If it works well with no problems I'd go for it. I bought an
artascope (I think thats what it's called) several years ago and I believe I
payed 98.00 for it then new.  If this projector looks like the professional
ones you place on a desk  that has a glass surface for 8 x 11 inch pages,
new it could run in the hundreds.  Just take something like a pattern or
photo to try on it to  check it out and see if it will do what you need it
to. For the ones I remember you had to use transparencies for it to creat
the image on the screen. But if all is well and you like what you see, I'd
grab it............Jackie
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
To: bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:26 PM
Subject: Price for Overhead projector


>I was out today and came across a overhead projector, the man bought from
>the local college.  I didn't get the name of it but it is thing where you
>put your something down on it and it projects on a wall or screen or what
>have you.   He said he would sell me one for $55.00   Is that a good price?
>I thought if it was a decent price I would use it to transfer or enlarge a
>patterns.  Anyone have any input??
>Thanks,
>Linda Jo
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 23:00:59 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: NG...interesting test
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:23:01 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.22231.0>
References: <<1999Feb9.25157.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Not an intelligence test!!!
It tests observation.
A child would do better for the reasons you outlined about the
prepositions.

In message <1999Feb9.25157.0@?>, Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com> writes
>See how intelligent you really are!!
>
>A quick test of intelligence.
>Don't cheat! Because if you did, the test would be no fun.
>I promise, there are no tricks to this test.
>
>Read this sentence:
>
>FINISHED FILES ARE THE RE-
>SULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIF-
>IC STUDY COMBINED WITH
>THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS.
>
>Now count aloud the F's in that sentence.
>Count them ONLY ONCE!! Don't go back, that's cheating!
>
>See Answers Below.......
>
>
>
>ANSWER:  There are six F's in the sentence.
>One of average intelligence finds three of them.
>If you spotted four, you are above average.
>If you got five, you can turn your nose at most anybody.
>If you caught six, you are a genius.
>There is no catch.  Many people forget the "OF"'s.
>The human brain tends to see them as V's and not F's.
>
>Pretty weird, huh?
>It fools almost everybody.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  9 23:44:06 1999
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X-Path: earthlink.net!emilie
From: Emilie Golding <emilie@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: bottle glass
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 22:31:07 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.14317.0>
Precedence: bulk

I've been cutting up old bottles,  melting them into freeform shapes, and 
then wrapping them with wire.

The problem is I'm getting a lot of devitrification. To cover up the 
scummy part,  I've been sandblasting and tumbling the pieces (making them 
look like beach glass). 

Is there a way to fire bottle glass and get better results?  I can't seem 
to find the best combination of temperature and time.
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 01:35:58 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Emilie Golding" <emilie@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: bottle glass
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:31:22 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.163122.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>The problem is I'm getting a lot of devitrification. To cover up the
scummy part,  I've been sandblasting and tumbling the pieces (making them
look like beach glass).

Is there a way to fire bottle glass and get better results?  I can't seem
to find the best combination of temperature and time.<<

Above 1100'F go as fast as your kiln will go to 1550'F and then flash vent
to below 1100'F. Go a bit higher or lower as necessary for the glass you are
using. The idea is to minimise the time the glass is exposed to high heat.
Going to a higher heat is prefferable to soaking at a lower heat to achieve
the same effect.

Also clean the glass well as surface impurities may lead to devitrification.

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 03:33:52 1999
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Linda Letscher'" <andor@fair.net>, "bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Price for Overhead projector
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:14:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.11426.0>
Precedence: bulk

If it's a big heavy thing like the old school models, it is worth about 
$500 new. I bought one used about 20 years ago fdor $25 bucks. I've had to 
replace the bulb once. That was another $25 but it has been worth it. With 
the age of computers and scanners, I use it less but it's still a nice toy.

Linda Campbell

-----Original Message-----
From:	Linda Letscher [SMTP:andor@fair.net]
Sent:	Tuesday, February 09, 1999 4:46 PM
To:	bungi.com
Subject:	Price for Overhead projector

I was out today and came across a overhead projector, the man bought from
the local college.  I didn't get the name of it but it is thing where you
put your something down on it and it projects on a wall or screen or what
have you.   He said he would sell me one for $55.00   Is that a good price?
I thought if it was a decent price I would use it to transfer or enlarge a
patterns.  Anyone have any input??
Thanks,
Linda Jo


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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 04:36:54 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Price for Overhead projector
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:41:48 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.114148.0>
Precedence: bulk

You can buy transparencies at an office supply house and use them instead of
paper to photocopy whatever you want to put on the projector.
Brenda

<<  For the ones I remember you had to use transparencies for it to creat
 the image on the screen. >>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 07:47:47 1999
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X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights
From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: BMarhon@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Price for Overhead projector
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:25:47 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.22547.0>
References: <<1999Feb10.114148.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I also think that most all of the copy places will copy something for you onto a
transparency.  You can also load transparency paper into most printers if you're
designing something yourself (I've printed more than my share of presentations
onto transparencies at work!).  I've had an overhead projecter on my "things to
look for" at garage sales, flea markets, etc.  But just thought of another place
to look -- used office equipment (what with the popular use of Powerpoint and
computer LCD displays, I would think there would be a good supply of used
overhead projecters at those types of stores).

BMarhon@aol.com wrote:

> You can buy transparencies at an office supply house and use them instead of
> paper to photocopy whatever you want to put on the projector.
> Brenda
>
> <<  For the ones I remember you had to use transparencies for it to creat
>  the image on the screen. >>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 07:49:19 1999
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: Teaching and Liability
Date: Wed Feb 10 06:49:17 1999
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.42717.0>
Precedence: bulk

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5502.BFC4CC56
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Pam

Based on what has happened to acquaintances, I would not only include the
waiver but would also include a list of basic safety requirement. You know
the ones: glass is sharp be careful; always use safety glasses with the
grinder; don't inhale the fumes from the solder ... The waiver should be
signed when they register for the class, it can actually be part of the
registration form.
Also make sure they get a copy of the safety rules. It should state that
they have gotten it in the waiver. 

You should also get certified in basic first aid. That little card can carry
a lot of weight in court when you have placed a Band-Aid on someone's
finger.  Bet you didn't know you could be sued for "miss-applying" a
Band-Aid.  

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com <mailto:Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com> 

Isn't it amazing how similar caution and paranoia have become?


		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Pamela Burns-Tappan [mailto:ptap@pacifier.com]
		Sent:	Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:51 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Teaching and Liability

		Hi all,

		Does anyone require their students to sign a waiver of
liability. I am
		gathering all of my pre-reg forms together and wondered if
this might be
		a good document to include. More of a take this class at
your own risk
		type of form I suppose I should have said.

		Yes I plan on teaching glass safety but I'm afraid of
getting that one
		person who gets a glass cut, no insurance and wants me to
pay or worse
		yet, sues the heck out of me. Does this concern anyone or am
I being to
		paranoid?

		Thanks,

		Pam

		--
		*********************************

		Pamela Burns-Tappan
		Executive Director
		The Stained Glass Artists
		http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

		Moswood Mountain Limited
		http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
		http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1


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<TITLE>RE: Teaching and Liability</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Pam</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Based on what has happened to</FONT> =
<FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">acquaintances,</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"></FONT> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I would not only =
include the waiver but would also include a list of basic safety =
requirement. You know the ones: glass is sharp be careful; always use =
safety glasses with the grinder; don't inhale the fumes from the solder =
... The waiver should be signed when they register for the class, it =
can actually be part of the registration form.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Also make sure they get a copy of the =
safety rules. It should state that they have gotten it in the waiver. =
</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">You should also get certified in basic =
first aid. That little card can carry a lot of weight in court when you =
have placed a Band-Aid on someone's finger.&nbsp; Bet you didn't know =
you could be sued for &quot;miss-applying&quot; a =
Band-Aid.&nbsp;</FONT> </P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
<BR><A HREF=3D"mailto:Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com"><U><FONT =
COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</FONT></U></A>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Isn't it amazing how similar caution =
and paranoia have become?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Pamela =
Burns-Tappan [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:ptap@pacifier.com">mailto:ptap@pacifier.com</A>]</FONT></=
B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:51 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Teaching and Liability</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hi all,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Does anyone require their students to =
sign a waiver of liability. I am</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">gathering all of my pre-reg forms =
together and wondered if this might be</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">a good document to include. More of a =
take this class at your own risk</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">type of form I suppose I should have =
said.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes I plan on teaching glass safety =
but I'm afraid of getting that one</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">person who gets a glass cut, no =
insurance and wants me to pay or worse</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">yet, sues the heck out of me. Does =
this concern anyone or am I being to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">paranoid?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thanks,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Pam</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">*********************************</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Pamela Burns-Tappan</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Executive Director</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The Stained Glass Artists</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"><A =
HREF=3D"http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists</A></FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Moswood Mountain Limited</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"><A =
HREF=3D"http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"><A =
HREF=3D"http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1</A></FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 08:06:47 1999
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X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon
From: "Jak N Wolfy" <rjlcon@ticnet.com>
To: "Byron Wells" <byronwells@eatumup.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Abrasive Blasting Pricing
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:00:42 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.3042.0>
Precedence: bulk

Byron, Start with a square foot price. 20., 30, 40, what ever where you live
would handle comfortably. Measure your pattern height and width from edges
of the pattern drawing. Ad 2 inches both directions and use that for your
dimensions.  Add a certain percent for original artwork if it is....( make a
note somewhere that artwork is the property of artist and protect...you may
not have a copyright but it will scare some people off from copying your
work)  If you're surface blasting go with that price . If it's stage
blasting and carving add a certain percent for 1 to 3 stage and a different
percent for mulit-stage and complexity. If you need to find a rough starting
point in your area for sq.ft. call someone and play dumb. Tell tham you have
a cabinet door frame that you want etched glass in and how much it would
cost..............................Jackie
-----Original Message-----
From: Byron Wells <byronwells@eatumup.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:02 AM
Subject: Abrasive Blasting Pricing


>Hey all....
>
>I'm trying to expand a bit and was wondering if there are any pricing
>formulas yall use for abrasive blast etching work?? I dont want to be to
>high and scare people off and at the same time I dont want to be to low and
>make nothing either... I realize that just as with panel work the more
>detailed the work is the longer it takes and the price needs to climb
>accordingly... I'd just like a starting point is all....Thats what I did
>with panel work and have gradually gotten my prices where they need to
be...
>
>Thanks
>Byron
>Wells Glassworks
>
>----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 08:26:56 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Price for Overhead projector
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:08:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.5834.0>
References: <<199902092146.QAA24107@smtp.america.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Linda Letscher wrote:
> 
> I was out today and came across a overhead projector, the man bought from
> the local college.  I didn't get the name of it but it is thing where you
> put your something down on it and it projects on a wall or screen or what
> have you.   He said he would sell me one for $55.00   Is that a good price?
> I thought if it was a decent price I would use it to transfer or enlarge a
> patterns.  Anyone have any input??
> Thanks,
> Linda Jo
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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it sounds like an opaque projector which sells for about $100-$300. i
use it all the time when making my projects. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 08:47:08 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Evelyn C Mason <ABBIE23875@prodigy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Cold....
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:20:14 -0600
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Evelyn C Mason wrote:
> 
> There is frost on my windows and cold as heck here!

Supposed to be close to 80 here today, and 22 on Friday! :-/
I have spring fever after the last few warm days.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 09:13:43 1999
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Linda Campbell'" <lcbell@memach.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Price for Overhead projectoR (OPPS)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:05:07 -0500
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Linda Jo,

Sorry, I was thinking of an opaque projector. I have an overhead too but the bulb was much cheaper.

Linda

 
If it's a big heavy thing like the old school models, it is worth about 
$500 new. I bought one used about 20 years ago fdor $25 bucks. I've had to 
replace the bulb once. That was another $25 but it has been worth it. With 
the age of computers and scanners, I use it less but it's still a nice toy.

Linda Campbell

-----Original Message-----
From:	Linda Letscher [SMTP:andor@fair.net]
Sent:	Tuesday, February 09, 1999 4:46 PM
To:	bungi.com
Subject:	Price for Overhead projector

I was out today and came across a overhead projector, the man bought from
the local college.  I didn't get the name of it but it is thing where you
put your something down on it and it projects on a wall or screen or what
have you.   He said he would sell me one for $55.00   Is that a good price?
I thought if it was a decent price I would use it to transfer or enlarge a
patterns.  Anyone have any input??
Thanks,
Linda Jo


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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 09:39:30 1999
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Teaching and Liability
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:13:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.6132.0>
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I agree, get the form signed, it can't hurt. Most folks will understand. I 
signed one when I went to a fire walking seminar - made me understand that 
I was responisble for my own actions.

Linda 
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 09:52:29 1999
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From: "Alex Gacic" <agacic@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Printer review
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:14:53 PST
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.161453.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi, Byron

I was interesting in that Canon printer too.  But two things that seemed 
to bother me about it.  1. speed, it seemed to be pretty slow. 2. No 
tray for the 11 x 17 paper, so you have to manual feed the paper.

I only looked at one at the store, I would be interested in getting your 
impressions about these two issues.

Subject: Printer review
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:50:42 -0600
Reply Reply All Forward  Delete  Previous Next  Close 

I've been looking for a larger printer to use with Glass Eye and such...
Since most of my panels are sidelights,transoms,cabinet doors etc I 
wanted
to be able to print them out on fewer sheets of paper..

I've been looking for several months at HPs and Epsons wider 
printers(they
will accept up to 11x17 paper) but have been put off by the $500 price 
tag
on them...The other day I was in Best Buy and they had a new Canon 
BJC-5000
for $199.... I tried the demo deal on it and it printed great on plain
paper. I figgured for 199 it was worth a shot...I brought it home and it
works great... Even does near photo quality with the optional 
cartridge...

I can now do a quicky full size printout for my customers without so 
much
taping together...

Anyway if anyone has been looking for a larger printer without having to 
get
a 2nd mortgage on the house ya cant beat this one...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks



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Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability & First Aid
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Based on what has happened to acquaintances, I would not only include
the waiver but would also include a list of basic safety
requirement. You know the ones: glass is sharp be careful; always use
safety glasses with the grinder; don't inhale the fumes from
the solder ... The waiver should be signed when they register for the
class, it can actually be part of the registration form.

Also make sure they get a copy of the safety rules. It should state that
they have gotten it in the waiver.

You should also get certified in basic first aid. That little card can
carry a lot of weight in court when you have placed a Band-Aid on
someone's finger.  Bet you didn't know you could be sued for
"miss-applying" a Band-Aid.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

Isn't it amazing how similar caution and paranoia have become?


Great advice I agree. Touching on the first aid card I am certified in
first aid and CPR. You do have rights if you help someone regarding
first aid & you are certified. I wouldn't worry too much about that, I
would worry about HIV and that risk. I always carry a small first aid
kit that includes gloves & a mask. I wouldn't apply a bandage without
gloves on. I certainly wouldn't administer CPR without a mask on. I
don't care how big the cut is or how bad the heart attack is.

This is just a reminder to all of you that you don't get near anyone who
needs first aid without first putting gloves on. They can put the band
aid on themselves or wait until I get my gloves on. You can purchase
small first aid kits at medical supply shops.

Thanks Vic and all of you for some great advice.

Pam

*********************************

Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

Moswood Mountain Limited
http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1


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<HTML>
&nbsp;

<P><I>Based on what has happened to acquaintances, I would not only include
the waiver but would also include a list of basic safety</I>
<BR><I>requirement. You know the ones: glass is sharp be careful; always
use safety glasses with the grinder; don't inhale the fumes from</I>
<BR><I>the solder ... The waiver should be signed when they register for
the class, it can actually be part of the registration form.</I><I></I>

<P><I>Also make sure they get a copy of the safety rules. It should state
that they have gotten it in the waiver.</I><I></I>

<P><I>You should also get certified in basic first aid. That little card
can carry a lot of weight in court when you have placed a Band-Aid on</I>
<BR><I>someone's finger.&nbsp; Bet you didn't know you could be sued for
"miss-applying" a Band-Aid.</I><I></I>

<P><I>Vic M.</I>
<BR><I>Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</I><I></I>

<P><I>Isn't it amazing how similar caution and paranoia have become?</I>
<BR><I></I>&nbsp;

<P>Great advice I agree. Touching on the first aid card I am certified
in first aid and CPR. You do have rights if you help someone regarding
first aid &amp; you are certified. I wouldn't worry too much about that,
I would worry about HIV and that risk. I always carry a small first aid
kit that includes gloves &amp; a mask. I wouldn't apply a bandage without
gloves on. I certainly wouldn't administer CPR without a mask on. I don't
care how big the cut is or how bad the heart attack is.

<P>This is just a reminder to all of you that you don't get near anyone
who needs first aid without first putting gloves on. They can put the band
aid on themselves or wait until I get my gloves on. You can purchase small
first aid kits at medical supply shops.

<P>Thanks Vic and all of you for some great advice.

<P>Pam<I></I>

<P>*********************************

<P>Pamela Burns-Tappan
<BR>Executive Director
<BR>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists">http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists</A>

<P>Moswood Mountain Limited
<BR><A HREF="http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited">http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited</A>
<BR><A HREF="http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1">http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1</A>
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 11:30:40 1999
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From: MD6868@aol.com
To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:13:03 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.18133.0>
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Although I do not have lawsuit involvement / prevention experience re glass, I
do have extensive experience thereof, in another industry. I couldn't agree
more with what Albert is telling you. In today's litigious climate, it is
ESSENTIAL, not just prudent, to protect yourself, in that way. Again, as
Albert points out, a hold -- harmless agreement won't protect you from anyone
who is lawsuit minded, but it will make it much more difficult for them to
prevail in a suit, once filed. If they've signed an agreement, they can't
raise the notion that they weren't told, or warned. At the very least, this
will help mitigate damages. Conversely, if you allow conditions to prevail
that are unsafe, and are sued, all the waivers in the world won't keep you
from paying.  Remember, anyone can sue you. Making it difficult for them to
win, is the name of the game.

Richard
Glassics Artglass
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 12:50:36 1999
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1252DD55EC66E0028EDF773E"
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability & First Aid
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:23:33 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.42333.0>
References: <<005e01be5544$040ab420$754daccf@hq6bx>>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk


--------------1252DD55EC66E0028EDF773E
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>      I wouldn't apply a bandage without gloves on. I certainly
>      wouldn't administer CPR without a mask on. I don't care how
>      big the cut is or how bad the heart attack is.
>
Sorry, should have clarified the above. The CPR mask is what an EMT
would use to administer CPR. It's a special mask with airway holes in it
made of sterile thin plastic. You place the mask over the victims mouth,
then start CPR. It protects both victim and resuscitator from health
risks. The holes make it handy to get air in :)

Pam

>
>
>
*********************************

Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

Moswood Mountain Limited
http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1


--------------1252DD55EC66E0028EDF773E
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<HTML>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"><I>I
wouldn't apply a bandage without gloves on. I certainly wouldn't administer
CPR without a mask on. I don't care how big the cut is or how bad the heart
attack is.</I></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry, should have clarified the above. The CPR mask is what an EMT would
use to administer CPR. It's a special mask with airway holes in it made
of sterile thin plastic. You place the mask over the victims mouth, then
start CPR. It protects both victim and resuscitator from health risks.
The holes make it handy to get air in :)

<P>Pam
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>


<P>*********************************

<P>Pamela Burns-Tappan
<BR>Executive Director
<BR>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists">http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists</A>

<P>Moswood Mountain Limited
<BR><A HREF="http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited">http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited</A>
<BR><A HREF="http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1">http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1</A>
<BR>&nbsp;
</BODY>
</HTML>

--------------1252DD55EC66E0028EDF773E--

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 13:21:07 1999
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From: "Dawn" <dawnm@fidnet.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:25:51 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.62551.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BE5501.42D77FA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Has anyone noticed a huge disparity in pricing on some stained glass =
artists' web
sites and "real-world" pricing? =20

I was recently researching pricing and was amazed at the prices listed =
on some=20
of the sites.  I considered the sites I found with pricing that figured =
out to be=20
around $400 to $500 per square foot out of line, especially considering =
the work.=20
But then I came across stainedglassart.com/panels which has prices that =
figured=20
out to be between $700 and $1000 per square foot!  (Interestingly =
enough, the=20
artist admits that the "Carousel Ram" , whose price figures out to be =
$956 per=20
square foot, is not an original design.)

In discussions of pricing by the square foot, it seemed the majority of =
those who
responded were charging somewhere around $125 - $150 with variance for=20
complexity of the design.   The project I am currently working on is a =
little over 4=20
square feet, and averages 78 pieces *per* square foot, and if I were to =
price it, I=20
was thinking around the $150 per s.f. range. =20

When someone has requested advice regarding pricing in the past, =
primarily the=20
same people respond.  Is it my limited knowledge and a very small cross =
section=20
of bungi that has lead me to believe that the bungi responses were the =
norm??

Dawn

------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BE5501.42D77FA0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Has anyone noticed a huge disparity =
in pricing=20
on some stained glass artists' web</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>sites and &quot;real-world&quot; =
</FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>pricing?&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I was recently researching pricing =
</FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>and was amazed at the prices listed on some =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>of the sites.&nbsp; I </FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>considered the </FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>sites I =
found with=20
pricing that figured out to be </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>around $400 </FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>to=20
$500 per square foot out of line, especially considering the work. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>But then I came across=20
stainedglassart.com/panels which has prices </FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =

size=3D2>that figured </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>out to be between $700 and $1000 per =
square=20
foot!&nbsp; (</FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Interestingly enough, =
the=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>artist admits that the =
&quot;Carousel Ram&quot;=20
, whose price figures out to be </FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>$956 per=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>square foot, is not an original=20
design.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>In discussions of pricing by the =
square foot, it=20
seemed the majority of those who</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>responded were </FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>charging somewhere around $125 - $150 with variance for =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>complexity of the </FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>design.&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>The =
project I am=20
currently working on is a little over 4 </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>square feet, and </FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>averages </FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>78 </FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>pieces *per* square foot, and if I were to price it, I =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>was thinking </FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>around the $150 per s.f. range.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>When someone has requested advice =
regarding=20
pricing in the past, primarily the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>same people respond.&nbsp; =
</FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Is it my limited knowledge and a very small =
cross section=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>of bungi that has lead </FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>me to believe that the bungi responses were the =

norm??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Dawn</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BE5501.42D77FA0--

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 13:45:59 1999
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: cros.net!soraya
From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: "Pamela Burns-Tappan" <ptap@pacifier.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:11:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb9.91143.0>
Precedence: bulk

I just started taking a stained glass class several weeks ago and this was
the first paper he had us signed.

Since he also opens his shop two days a week for cheap community workshops
(For $1.00 an hour you get to use his equipment and get help from him and
the other artists that frequent  (heck, they even have a potluck dinner once
a week!!!)...anyway...because of this he also has a sign posted "Use At Your
Own Risk" by  the grinders  and a few other places.

It really is a good idea in this 'sue-happy, lawyer-filled'  world.....it
may not protect you from severe negligence on your part, (like that would be
right!! ;)  but it should prevent the scenario you describe.

Take Care,
Soraya

~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Soraya may be reached at...
soraya@cros.net
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Soraya's web site is currently undergoing reconstruction�
"The Witches' Thicket"  may be found at...
http://www.cros.net/soraya
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
"For Passionate People These Are Desperate Times,
Desperate Measures Call For Passionate Crimes"
--Michael Stanley

~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)
>Does anyone require their students to sign a waiver of liability. I am
>gathering all of my pre-reg forms together and wondered if this might be
>a good document to include. More of a take this class at your own risk
>type of form I suppose I should have said.
>
>Yes I plan on teaching glass safety but I'm afraid of getting that one
>person who gets a glass cut, no insurance and wants me to pay or worse
>yet, sues the heck out of me. Does this concern anyone or am I being to
>paranoid?


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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 15:04:12 1999
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From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Dawn" <dawnm@fidnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:08:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.6843.0>
Precedence: bulk

I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and
another will buy it for. Having said that I will comment on the prices found
at http://www.stainedglassart.com . What a rip off! IMHO the work is poorly
done and worth from $50.00 to $80.00 a square foot. Notice the run off
lines. They are all over the place and would seem to indiciate a person that
had little skill in cutting did the work. I am not anti run off line but
think they should be used with GRACE. Not the case here. Also, it would seem
that the work is foiled and that is not always the best selection for a
panel.

I am a fan of Spectrum glass but it IMO has been overly used in the windows
at this site. There are far better glasses for the presented windows. True,
they cost more but it seems that any fairly priced panel should have glass
selected for the purpose and not for its low cost.

Bob (who rarely charges more than $120.00 a square foot)

>>Has anyone noticed a huge disparity in pricing on some stained glass =
artists' web
sites and "real-world" pricing? =20

I was recently researching pricing and was amazed at the prices listed =
on some=20
of the sites.  I considered the sites I found with pricing that figured =
out to be=20
around $400 to $500 per square foot out of line, especially considering =
the work.=20
But then I came across stainedglassart.com/panels which has prices that =
figured=20
out to be between $700 and $1000 per square foot!  (Interestingly =
enough, the=20
artist admits that the "Carousel Ram" , whose price figures out to be =
$956 per=20
square foot, is not an original design.)

In discussions of pricing by the square foot, it seemed the majority of =
those who
responded were charging somewhere around $125 - $150 with variance for=20
complexity of the design.   The project I am currently working on is a =
little over 4=20
square feet, and averages 78 pieces *per* square foot, and if I were to =
price it, I=20
was thinking around the $150 per s.f. range. =20

When someone has requested advice regarding pricing in the past, =
primarily the=20
same people respond.  Is it my limited knowledge and a very small cross =
section=20
of bungi that has lead me to believe that the bungi responses were the =
norm??

Dawn<<

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 15:48:11 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Dawn <dawnm@fidnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:22:19 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.102219.0>
References: <<1999Feb10.62551.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I am appalled at some of the things I see on the internet.

I see stones straight out of The Tiffany Garden books, priced at $160,
which I think $75-$100 would be more realistic.
To top it off they used ugly glass!  I figure they are hoping to get
lucky.  Just because they have it on their site listed for that price
doesnt mean they have actually sold it at that price.

Of course, I have sent some of *my* prospective buyers to some of these
sites and they are happy happy to deal with me! ;o)
It can work to our advantage.  I really dont want to see them under
pricing.

I have been pricing my stuff at *about $2 per peice of glass...to get to
what I consider a *fair* price both for myself and the consumer.  This
is why I *stopped* making 50 peice pavers at 8"x4", I figure no one in
their right mind would pay for that...so my mom has those!

Keep in mind, I have only been selling since early December.  This is
where I get 99.9% of my advice.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 16:09:19 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Soraya <soraya@cros.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:29:58 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.102958.0>
References: <<1999Feb9.91143.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> Since he also opens his shop two days a week for cheap community workshops
> (For $1.00 an hour you get to use his equipment and get help from him and
> the other artists that frequent  (heck, they even have a potluck dinner once
> a week!!!)...anyway...because of this he also has a sign posted "Use At Your
> Own Risk" by  the grinders  and a few other places.


I think that sounds like a great deal for you and his other students.
Beside having the benefit of his help available, you can use the tools
and determine what you need to purchase now, what can wait, what you can
live without!

I am curious, does he teach you how to clean, maintain the equipment?

That last time I was at my local glass shop, I walked through the area
where they give classes and was amazed that they allowed their grinders
to get soooooooo nasty before cleaning, and replacing water.  Doesnt
seem to give a very good example to their students.  

I think I would include the *care and feeding* of tools in my classes,
were I to give them.  

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 16:12:27 1999
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Various threads
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:28:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.122845.0>
Precedence: bulk

Pricing....I have often commented on the prices I see in tourist towns
and the prices I see around me in the real world...finished pieces in
suppliers stores and at craft fairs.  I suppose if you can get $700/sq
ft, go for it!

Bread...the best is mine own husband's oatmeal bread (so there.  Not for
sale in any store.)

Bumper stickers...bumper stickers, dirt...it's that kind of stuff that
holds my old car together.

Art fair jurying...well, I don't do the BIG shows.  The one show I do
that requires slides knows me so well they just send me a "pre-accepted"
form now.  Many of the shows I do, I'm working with organizers that I've
known for a long time.

Cold...well, it snowed Sunday night.  Today was in the 40's, tomorrow in
the 50's (forecast), with Friday possibly at 60.  This is New England in
February?  Why am I afraid we're going to pay for this?

Dorothy



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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 16:16:17 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: RE: Price for Overhead projector
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:06:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.1264.0>
Precedence: bulk

I agree Linda... that overhead projector is a steal.... I'd buy it in
a heartbeat if it was in good shape.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 16:34:45 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:31:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.133131.0>
References: <<1999Feb10.6843.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Bob E Duchesneau wrote:
> 
> I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and
> another will buy it for. Having said that I will comment on the prices found
> at http://www.stainedglassart.com . What a rip off! IMHO the work is poorly
> done and worth from $50.00 to $80.00 a square foot. Notice the run off
> lines. They are all over the place and would seem to indiciate a person that
> had little skill in cutting did the work. I am not anti run off line but
> think they should be used with GRACE. Not the case here. Also, it would seem
> that the work is foiled and that is not always the best selection for a
> panel.
> 
> I am a fan of Spectrum glass but it IMO has been overly used in the windows
> at this site. There are far better glasses for the presented windows. True,
> they cost more but it seems that any fairly priced panel should have glass
> selected for the purpose and not for its low cost.
> 
> Bob (who rarely charges more than $120.00 a square foot)
> 
> >>Has anyone noticed a huge disparity in pricing on some stained glass =
> artists' web
> sites and "real-world" pricing? =20
> 
> I was recently researching pricing and was amazed at the prices listed =
> on some=20
> of the sites.  I considered the sites I found with pricing that figured =
> out to be=20
> around $400 to $500 per square foot out of line, especially considering =
> the work.=20
> But then I came across stainedglassart.com/panels which has prices that =
> figured=20
> out to be between $700 and $1000 per square foot!  (Interestingly =
> enough, the=20
> artist admits that the "Carousel Ram" , whose price figures out to be =
> $956 per=20
> square foot, is not an original design.)
> 
> In discussions of pricing by the square foot, it seemed the majority of =
> those who
> responded were charging somewhere around $125 - $150 with variance for=20
> complexity of the design.   The project I am currently working on is a =
> little over 4=20
> square feet, and averages 78 pieces *per* square foot, and if I were to =
> price it, I=20
> was thinking around the $150 per s.f. range. =20
> 
> When someone has requested advice regarding pricing in the past, =
> primarily the=20
> same people respond.  Is it my limited knowledge and a very small cross =
> section=20
> of bungi that has lead me to believe that the bungi responses were the =
> norm??
> 
> Dawn<<
> 
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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yeah i've always thought the prices were way too high. the work isn't
terribly advanced. i mean really 1200 bucks for a 18x20 window made of
spectrum, about 20 pieces...please...


goes up to $4500 for a 30" in kokomo... basically she's charging tiffany
like prices, for work that is no where near that level. 

though on the plus side, i do like some of the boxes. though the prices
are about 20 times higher then they should be....

i'm not really into a witch hunt, but this does make the art look bad.
it's like a thimble painter charging $2000 per thimble.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 19:22:36 1999
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From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 99 18:17:53 
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Okay, guys, you got me.. I went to the stainedglassart website, and though some things 
were interesting ,,, you're absolutely right about the prices!! where does she live that 
she can charge that and get it??? I only charge $75 a square foot, use the glass the 
window/piece calls for and charge extra only for bevels or painting/firing.. and not much 
at that.. and I still don't get much in the way of business!

What's the saying? 'there ain't no justice'

Candy

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 19:52:08 1999
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From: "Jerri" <pigznpawz@mindspring.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:34:01 -0500
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Would someone please explain what a run off line is?

Jerri




>I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and
>another will buy it for. Having said that I will comment on the prices
found
>at http://www.stainedglassart.com . What a rip off! IMHO the work is poorly
>done and worth from $50.00 to $80.00 a square foot. Notice the run off
>lines. They are all over the place and would seem to indiciate a person
that
>had little skill in cutting did the work. I am not anti run off line but
>think they should be used with GRACE. Not the case here. Also, it would
seem
>that the work is foiled and that is not always the best selection for a
>panel.
>


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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 20:04:33 1999
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From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:51:13 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.105113.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for
and
> another will buy it for. Having said that I will comment on the prices
found
> at http://www.stainedglassart.com . What a rip off! IMHO the work is
poorly
> done and worth from $50.00 to $80.00 a square foot. Notice the run off

> lines. They are all over the place and would seem to indiciate a
person that
> had little skill in cutting did the work. I am not anti run off line
but
> think they should be used with GRACE. Not the case here. Also, it
would seem
> that the work is foiled and that is not always the best selection for
a
> panel.

yeah i've always thought the prices were way too high. the work isn't
terribly advanced. i mean really 1200 bucks for a 18x20 window made of
spectrum, about 20 pieces...please...



Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the
same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her
prices. She has priced it how she feels fit. If you disagree that is
fine but this isn't the place to post how lousy you think her art is or
how over priced it may be. I know your voicing your opinion so goes the
old saying, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything
at all. Sorry but this thread really struck a nerve in me and I'm sure
in others.

Pam
--
*********************************

Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

Moswood Mountain Limited
http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1


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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 21:35:52 1999
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X-Path: aracnet.net!bigcreek
From: Wayne Parks <bigcreek@aracnet.net>
To: Bob E Duchesneau <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:35:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.17358.0>
References: <<1999Feb10.6843.0>>
Organization: Big Creek Studio
Precedence: bulk



Bob E Duchesneau wrote:
> 
> I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and
> another will buy it for. Having said that I will comment on the prices found
> at http://www.stainedglassart.com . What a rip off! IMHO the work is poorly
> done 
>
>
Bob: 
Right on, I think that Ms. K..... must be on something. Whatever it is I
would love to get some. Then maybe I would have the nerve to charge
those kind of prices also.
I like the idea of saving that web site and sending prospective
customers there. They would all come running back telling me what a
great deal I was giving them. Oh well back to the studio.......

Wayne Parks
Big Creek Studio
http://bigcreek.cjb.net

To bring the dead to life
Is no great magic.
Few are wholly dead:
Blow on a dead mans embers
And a live flame will start.
                      Robert Graves
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 21:41:27 1999
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X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells
From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: "Alex Gacic" <agacic@hotmail.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Printer review
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:52:17 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.155217.0>
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Hey Alex..

Well I may not be up on the latest printer speeds but it is faster than my
trusty HP 660c... With 2 ink carts in it its pretty fast in black mode...For
faster color printing you put to multicolor carts in it...Very true about
having to manually feed the 11x17 paper but for $300 difference in the price
I can feed paper manually when needed...I've only been in business about 1
1/2 years so every penny counts to me....
Byron...
Wells Glassworks

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Gacic <agacic@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 6:03 AM
Subject: Re: Printer review


>Hi, Byron
>
>I was interesting in that Canon printer too.  But two things that seemed
>to bother me about it.  1. speed, it seemed to be pretty slow. 2. No
>tray for the 11 x 17 paper, so you have to manual feed the paper.
>
>I only looked at one at the store, I would be interested in getting your
>impressions about these two issues.
>
>Subject: Printer review
>Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:50:42 -0600
>Reply Reply All Forward  Delete  Previous Next  Close
>
>I've been looking for a larger printer to use with Glass Eye and such...
>Since most of my panels are sidelights,transoms,cabinet doors etc I
>wanted
>to be able to print them out on fewer sheets of paper..
>
>I've been looking for several months at HPs and Epsons wider
>printers(they
>will accept up to 11x17 paper) but have been put off by the $500 price
>tag
>on them...The other day I was in Best Buy and they had a new Canon
>BJC-5000
>for $199.... I tried the demo deal on it and it printed great on plain
>paper. I figgured for 199 it was worth a shot...I brought it home and it
>works great... Even does near photo quality with the optional
>cartridge...
>
>I can now do a quicky full size printout for my customers without so
>much
>taping together...
>
>Anyway if anyone has been looking for a larger printer without having to
>get
>a 2nd mortgage on the house ya cant beat this one...
>
>Byron...
>Wells Glassworks
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 22:12:28 1999
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From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Abrasive Blasting Pricing
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:56:13 -0600
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Thanks for the info folks...
Byron..

-----Original Message-----
From: Jak N Wolfy <rjlcon@ticnet.com>
To: Byron Wells <byronwells@eatumup.com>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: Abrasive Blasting Pricing


>Byron, Start with a square foot price. 20., 30, 40, what ever where you
live
>would handle comfortably. Measure your pattern height and width from edges
>of the pattern drawing. Ad 2 inches both directions and use that for your
>dimensions.  Add a certain percent for original artwork if it is....( make
a
>note somewhere that artwork is the property of artist and protect...you may
>not have a copyright but it will scare some people off from copying your
>work)  If you're surface blasting go with that price . If it's stage
>blasting and carving add a certain percent for 1 to 3 stage and a different
>percent for mulit-stage and complexity. If you need to find a rough
starting
>point in your area for sq.ft. call someone and play dumb. Tell tham you
have
>a cabinet door frame that you want etched glass in and how much it would
>cost..............................Jackie

>>
>

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 22:27:32 1999
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: emilie@earthlink.net
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: bottle glass
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:26:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb10.182655.0>
Precedence: bulk

There is a product called "spray A" that is supposed to prevent
devitrification.  (Never tried it).


Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com


On Tue, 09 Feb 1999 22:31:07 -0800 Emilie Golding <emilie@earthlink.net>
writes:
>I've been cutting up old bottles,  melting them into freeform shapes, 
>and 
>then wrapping them with wire.
>
>The problem is I'm getting a lot of devitrification. To cover up the 
>scummy part,  I've been sandblasting and tumbling the pieces (making 
>them 
>look like beach glass). 
>
>Is there a way to fire bottle glass and get better results?  I can't 
>seem 
>to find the best combination of temperature and time.


Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com

___________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 01:37:28 1999
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From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Jerri" <pigznpawz@mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:21:20 -0800
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>>Would someone please explain what a run off line is?

Jerri<<

My defination of a run off line is a line that is added to a stained glass
panel to make the work practical for cutting in stained glass. An example
would be a lead line that extended the tip of a leaf to the border to make
the cutting of the background glass practical.

With care in the design these lines can be reduced in number or eliminated.
When they are used it is nice if they seemed a natural part of the design
and not stand out like sore thumbs. So.......... a run off line from a leaf
will form a gracefull curve with the leaf.

There may well be other names for run off lines but I do not recall them.
Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 04:08:00 1999
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:22:08 +0000
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> Okay, guys, you got me.. I went to the stainedglassart website, and though some things 
> were interesting ,,, you're absolutely right about the prices!! where does she live that 
> she can charge that and get it??? I only charge $75 a square foot, use the glass the 
> window/piece calls for and charge extra only for bevels or painting/firing.. and not much 
> at that.. and I still don't get much in the way of business!
> 
> What's the saying? 'there ain't no justice'


Charging a price is one thing. Getting it is another. Interesting to 
note the level of outrage (jealousy?) that those prices have 
engendered. <smile>

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 04:38:41 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Pamela Burns-Tappan" <ptap@pacifier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:34:21 -0800
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>>Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the
same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her
prices.<<snip<<

I bet she does care and will have something to say when this thread is sent
to her. When a person posts stained glass product for sale and gives a price
I believe it deserves comment. Would I buy it or not and why. Failure to
answer these questions makes discussion rather pointless.

Most of us are here to learn and thereby form opinions. I have just
completed a very carefull review of the site and have only steeled my
OPINION that the work is way far over priced and not very good at that. Crap
is crap and failure to smell it and report it is not one of my short
comings. I will say the site is well designed and loads nicely. Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 05:08:27 1999
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>,
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:09:09 -0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.899.0>
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Hello

This is my second response on this thread - now that I've had a look at the
famous site!

Crucial words from Uncle Bob:-

I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and
another will buy it for

If this lady makes money with these products then good luck to her.

I don't know enough about available patterns to say that her work is wholely
original or not but it comes across as so. I certainly haven't seen boxes or
lamps like hers any where else. Originality does count for something.

This is the way 'Art' works. I have watched someone literally throw a pot of
paint at a large canvas and sell the result for �5000 (I can't be bothered
to work it out in Dollars!)

I think what is at work here is a system of perceived values. When one of
her customers looks at what they have purchased they think they have a piece
of 'Art' and they love it. It's no good us calling ourselves Stained Glass
Artists - it isn't the same! This market wants a bit extra - perhaps a bit
of mystery about what it all means. Some people simply call themselves
'Artists' and jack their prices up. They aren't doing us a diservice but
they are degrading the name of Artist.

I take this moment to decline to define what Art is!!!

I will say this though - with all due deference to Pam. Usually when I look
at other peoples work I am a inspired and I get ideas. This didn't happen
when I looked at this site. Make of that what you will.

BtB


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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 05:15:19 1999
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From: Luanne6556@aol.com
To: byronwells@eatumup.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:30:27 EST
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Any of you Bungians know of a web site that may have a legal form for the
liability purpose?   I had a very close call with a sheet of glass yesterday,
fortunately I wasn't hurt badly.  It did scare the bejesus out of me, I'm
still shaking over that one. I will have any new students sign a release.  
Luanne
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 06:02:17 1999
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From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:45:20 EST
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I think of it this way:

There is right, and there is wrong. To blatantly overcharge a consumer who
probably does not know the difference between mediocre and superior
workmanship (and this includes quality of design, ie: flow of lines, placement
of lines, etc.) is wrong. We as glassworkers can all estimate what the
materials in one of those pieces cost to produce. I don't think I sensed
jealousy in those previous posts, it was more like outrage. That's good. That
shows there artists/craftsmen who care a great deal for the craft/medium and
the way it is presented to the public. I happened upon that particular site
about a year ago, and to tell you the truth, I also was quite surprised
because the prices did not seem to mesh with the products. I think this is an
interesting and improtant topic to discuss. 
As for picking out this particular website: why not? I would be quite
interested in this particular person's response to justify her pricing. And
like someone said (Bob?) said about if you can get that price form a consumer
then that is what the glass is worth - well, I feel that is true too. I also
thought that it was interesting to read in that same website that that person
was seeking grants & funding for her work. Now, what about glass that is
extremely underpriced? Examples?
Just my 2 cents

Laura P


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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 06:24:11 1999
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I am really new and still working on my first project so I realize that
discernment and level of expertise is extremely limited in my case.  However,
I went to that site and thought her work was beautiful.  She may have a
clientele in a large city (NYC or SanFran.) that is willing to pay that price
(obviously or she wouldn't charge that much)  But I did think her boxes-
houses-were interestingly done.  I enjoyed her work.
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 06:24:19 1999
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From: Luanne6556@aol.com
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Gee Whizz........  on second thought maybe I will just give up teaching.    I
was paranoid to begin with, now my mind is racing with all kinds of bad
thoughts.  Maybe I will interview all prospective students, do a background
check, ask for personal and professional references, etc.   LOL

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 06:42:43 1999
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In a message dated 2/11/99 12:45:36 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Luanne6556 writes:

<< Gee Whizz........  on second thought maybe I will just give up teaching.
I was paranoid to begin with, now my mind is racing with all kinds of bad
thoughts.  Maybe I will interview all prospective students, do a background
check, ask for personal and professional references, etc.   LOL >>


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From: Luanne6556@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:45:36 EST
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Gee Whizz........  on second thought maybe I will just give up teaching.    I
was paranoid to begin with, now my mind is racing with all kinds of bad
thoughts.  Maybe I will interview all prospective students, do a background
check, ask for personal and professional references, etc.   LOL

--part0_918737292_boundary--
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 07:15:26 1999
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Pamela Burns-Tappan" <ptap@pacifier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
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Pam, I couldn't agree more.  

Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing


>I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for
>and
>> another will buy it for. Having said that I will comment on the prices
>found
>> at http://www.stainedglassart.com . What a rip off! IMHO the work is
>poorly
>> done and worth from $50.00 to $80.00 a square foot. Notice the run off
>
>> lines. They are all over the place and would seem to indiciate a
>person that
>> had little skill in cutting did the work. I am not anti run off line
>but
>> think they should be used with GRACE. Not the case here. Also, it
>would seem
>> that the work is foiled and that is not always the best selection for
>a
>> panel.
>
>yeah i've always thought the prices were way too high. the work isn't
>terribly advanced. i mean really 1200 bucks for a 18x20 window made of
>spectrum, about 20 pieces...please...
>
>
>
>Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the
>same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her
>prices. She has priced it how she feels fit. If you disagree that is
>fine but this isn't the place to post how lousy you think her art is or
>how over priced it may be. I know your voicing your opinion so goes the
>old saying, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything
>at all. Sorry but this thread really struck a nerve in me and I'm sure
>in others.
>
>Pam
>--
>*********************************
>
>Pamela Burns-Tappan
>Executive Director
>The Stained Glass Artists
>http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists
>
>Moswood Mountain Limited
>http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
>http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1
>
>
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To: Bryce & Shirley Smith <sssinc@epix.net>,
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Subject: [Fwd: VIRUS ALERT......]
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>VIRUS WARNING!!!
>>=3D20
>> If you receive an email titled "It Takes Guts to Say 'Jesus'" DO NOT
>> open it. It will erase  everything on your hard drive. Forward this
>> letter out to as many people as  you can. This is a new, very
>> malicious virus and not many people know about it. This information
>> was announced yesterday morning from IBM; please share it with
everyone
>> that might access the Internet. Once again, pass this along to
>> EVERYONE in your address book so that this may be stopped.=3D20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                                                         Subject: You
won't believe this.
A warning to all who travel alone -
This story came from the  "DailyTexan" - the University of Texas
newspaper. Apparently it occurred during Fall Premier-a Uni tradition
that is a celebration of the end of midterms.   "Reason to not party
anymore"- This guy went out last Saturday night to a party. He was
having a good time, had a couple of beers and some girl seemed to like
him and invited him to go to another party.  He quickly agreed and
decided to go along with her. She took him to a party in some apartment
and they continued to drink, and even got involved with some other drugs
(unknown which). The next thing he knew, he woke up completely naked in
a bathtub filled with ice.  He was still feeling the effects of the
drugs, but looked around to see he was alone. He looked down at his
chest, which had: "CALL 911 OR YOU WILL DIE" written on it in lipstick.
He saw a phone was on a stand next to the tub, so he picked it up and
dialed. He explained to the EMS operator what the situation was and that
he didn't know where he was, what he took, or why he was really calling.
She advised him to get  out of the tub. He did, and she asked him to
look himself over in the mirror. He did, and appeared normal, so she
told him to check  his back. He did, only to find two 9 inch slits on
his lower back. She told him to get back in the tub immediately, and
they would sent a rescue team over. Apparently, after being examined, he
found out more of what had happened. His kidneys were stolen. They are
worth 10,000 dollars each on the black market. (I was unaware this even
existed.) Several guesses are in order:
 The second party was a sham, the people involved had to be at least
medical students, and it was not just recreational drugs he was given.
Regardless, he is currently in the  hospital on life support, awaiting a
spare kidney. The University of Texas in conjunction with Baylor
University Medical Center is conducting tissue research to match the
sophomore student with a donor. I wish to warn you about a new crime
ring that is targeting business travelers. This ring is well organized,
well funded, has very skilled personnel, and is currently in most major
cities and recently very active in New Orleans. The crime begins when a
business traveler goes to a lounge for a drink at the end of the work
day.  A person in the bar walks up as they sit alone and offers to buy
them a drink. The last thing the traveler remembers until they wake up
in a hotel room bath tub, their body submerged to their neck in ice, is
sipping that drink.  There is a note taped to the wall instructing them
not to move and to call 911.  A phone is on a small table next to the
bathtub for them to call.  The business traveler calls 911 who have
become quite familiar with this crime. The business traveler is
instructed by the 911 operator to very slowly and carefully reach behind
them and feel if there is a tube protruding from their lower back. The
business traveler finds the tube and answers, "Yes," The 911 operator
tells them to remain still, having already sent paramedics to help. The
operator knows that both of the business traveler's kidneys have been
harvested.  This is not a scam or out of a science fiction novel, it is
real.   It is documented and confirmable. If you travel or someone close
to you travels, please be careful.
Sadly, this is very true.  My husband is a Houston Firefighter/EMT and
they have received alerts regarding this crime ring. It is to be taken
very seriously. The daughter of a friend of a fellow firefighter had
this happen to her. Skilled doctor's are performing these crimes!
(which, by the way have been highly noted in the Las Vegas area).
Additionally, the military has received alerts regarding this. This
story blew me away.
I really want as many people to see this as possible so please bounce
this to whoever you can.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Michele Shafer - DML/Lab Administration
>>>>> >>>> Medical Manager Research & Development
>>>>> >>>> 15151 N.W. 99th Street
>>>>> >>>> Alachua, Florida  32615
>>>>> >>>> Tel. (904) 462-2148
>>>>> >>>> Fax (904) 462-1505
Is this not one of the scariest things you have ever heard of?
>>>>> >>>>
PLEASE forward this to everyone you know





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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 08:15:17 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:11:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.5112.0>
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Precedence: bulk

Bob E Duchesneau wrote:
> 
> >>Would someone please explain what a run off line is?
> 
> Jerri<<
> 
> My defination of a run off line is a line that is added to a stained glass
> panel to make the work practical for cutting in stained glass. An example
> would be a lead line that extended the tip of a leaf to the border to make
> the cutting of the background glass practical.
> 
> With care in the design these lines can be reduced in number or eliminated.
> When they are used it is nice if they seemed a natural part of the design
> and not stand out like sore thumbs. So.......... a run off line from a leaf
> will form a gracefull curve with the leaf.
> 
> There may well be other names for run off lines but I do not recall them.
> Bob
> 
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net
> 


oh that's a run off line. i was imagining a flattened solder line that
dripped through at the edge. i ususally call them relief cuts, or break
lines, or something like that. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 08:23:08 1999
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From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: RE: Virus alert..Sorry!
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:39:58 -0500
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I apologize to all. I only wanted to send the virus alert, not the
nonsense that followed! Again, sorry.
Paula

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 08:36:50 1999
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From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>,
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:35:31 -0000
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Hello again! (Third time!)

The public, God bless 'em, are a perverse lot and seldom recognise real
talent but if we don't identify it in ourselves and persist in underselling
what we do then it has to be our fault at least in part! It is not
reasonable to expect them to pass judgement on our workmanship - they are
not qualified to do so. It is conmmon sense for us to sell as high as we can
and hope that the public take the hint that what we are making is good.

This lady must sell to somebody  - of course she doesn't need to sell many
pieces at those rates - but she would have dropped her prices if she was
starving to death. Possibly her customers know nothing about stained glass
ut they aren't required to are they!

I'm always sad about disappearing standards of craftsmanship. It is a true
indictment of our times. But when you come right down to it it is only the
maker and his peers who know about that and the real travesty is that it
doesn't seem to figure in the price in any way.

We have to realise that people who pay that sort of money are simply not
looking at how it's made - that is not what they are buying.

My last word - the opinion be it ever so 'umble is my own!

BtB












-----Original Message-----
From: Bob E Duchesneau <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>; Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
Date: 11 February 1999 12:45
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing


>>>Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the
>same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her
>prices.<<snip<<
>
>I bet she does care and will have something to say when this thread is sent
>to her. When a person posts stained glass product for sale and gives a
price
>I believe it deserves comment. Would I buy it or not and why. Failure to
>answer these questions makes discussion rather pointless.
>
>Most of us are here to learn and thereby form opinions. I have just
>completed a very carefull review of the site and have only steeled my
>OPINION that the work is way far over priced and not very good at that.
Crap
>is crap and failure to smell it and report it is not one of my short
>comings. I will say the site is well designed and loads nicely. Bob
>
>Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
>Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net
>
>----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 08:42:46 1999
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From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:50:09 -0500
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I had to put my 2 cents in here.

First of all Pam, this is the place for discussion and open discussion helps
all of us.  I am pricing all my works right at a $1000.00 starting today.
(Even my $30.00 Valentine heart)  What the heck. (just a joke don't get
excited)  I have learned a lot by reading everyone's ideas and suggestions.
Bungi is fairly free flowing and when I came to the page I didn't see any
rules about what and what was not to be discussed, posted by Glenna.

Second, this lady may have found a very specific nitch, like a Mafia
enclave, a group of drug lords, family that has money coming out their ears,
people in her very wealthy very small community that will pay inflated
prices.  Maybe she is using gold to solder, I don't have a clue.  I have
been in galleries in Beverly Hills, San Francisco and the like and have
never seen works such as hers at that price.   I have got to hand it to the
woman if she is selling her wares for what she has posted.  I feel an air of
legitimacy as she posts her name and address on her page.  The rule of thumb
sometimes is what the market will bear.  We can only sell at inflated prices
if we can find someone to pay the inflated price.

Hey!! anyone can have a web page.  My hat is off to dear Leah!!!  (what is
the Spanish word? cahones or something like that?)

Linda Jo

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob E Duchesneau <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>; Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing


>>>Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the
>same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her
>prices.<<snip<<
>
>I bet she does care and will have something to say when this thread is sent
>to her. When a person posts stained glass product for sale and gives a
price
>I believe it deserves comment. Would I buy it or not and why. Failure to
>answer these questions makes discussion rather pointless.
>
>Most of us are here to learn and thereby form opinions. I have just
>completed a very carefull review of the site and have only steeled my
>OPINION that the work is way far over priced and not very good at that.
Crap
>is crap and failure to smell it and report it is not one of my short
>comings. I will say the site is well designed and loads nicely. Bob
>
>Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
>Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net
>
>----
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From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
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Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu Feb 11 06:52:02 1999
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I will freely admit that I have been guilty of overcharging as outrageously
as at the infamous http://www.stainedglassart.com
<http://www.stainedglassart.com> .
The difference is that unless the idiot, who we will call BJ,  was dumber
than a doornail he knew he was being overcharged. BJ and I never liked each
other and when he was quoted a price five times higher than anyone else he
said fine. Yes my "Artistic Integrity" is for sale but it ain't cheep!!! 

Who are we to criticize if the artist can get those prices. My own opinion
is that she probably offers big discounts or deals with people who have more
money than brains. 

A company I once consulted for paid $3000 each for works titled A, B and D.
One was a construction paper circle  on a construction paper background of a
contrasting color. The other two were a triangle and square. I don't
begrudge the "artist"
who collected the money. My only complaint is that they didn't come to me
for a competitive bid. (I'd have done all three is glass for a mere $5000.)


Also for the record Suzanne de Tulsa is right. This is the perfect site to
send clients to who think they are being overcharged.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com <mailto:Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com> 


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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<TITLE>RE: Disparity in Pricing</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I will freely admit that I have been =
guilty of overcharging as outrageously as at the infamous</FONT> <A =
HREF=3D"http://www.stainedglassart.com"><U><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">http://www.stainedglassart.com</FONT></U></A><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The difference is that unless the =
idiot, who we will call BJ,&nbsp; was dumber than a doornail he knew he =
was being overcharged. BJ and I never liked each other and when he was =
quoted a price five times higher than anyone else he said fine. Yes my =
&quot;Artistic Integrity&quot; is for sale but it ain't cheep!!! =
</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Who are we to criticize if the artist =
can get those prices. My own opinion is that she probably offers big =
discounts or deals with people who have more money than brains. =
</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">A company I once consulted for paid =
$3000 each for works titled A, B and D. One was a construction paper =
circle&nbsp; on a construction paper background of a contrasting color. =
The other two were a triangle and square. I don't begrudge the =
&quot;artist&quot;</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">who collected the money. My only =
complaint is that they didn't come to me for a competitive bid. (I'd =
have done all three is glass for a mere $5000.)&nbsp; </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Also for the record Suzanne de Tulsa =
is right. This is the perfect site to send clients to who think they =
are being overcharged.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
<BR><A HREF=3D"mailto:Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com"><U><FONT =
COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</FONT></U></A>
</P>

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 09:02:12 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:21:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.52123.0>
References: <<199902111015.FAA12242@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > Okay, guys, you got me.. I went to the stainedglassart website, and though some things
> > were interesting ,,, you're absolutely right about the prices!! where does she live that
> > she can charge that and get it??? I only charge $75 a square foot, use the glass the
> > window/piece calls for and charge extra only for bevels or painting/firing.. and not much
> > at that.. and I still don't get much in the way of business!
> >
> > What's the saying? 'there ain't no justice'
> 
> Charging a price is one thing. Getting it is another. Interesting to
> note the level of outrage (jealousy?) that those prices have
> engendered. <smile>
> 
> Albert
> ----
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the only way i can see her asking for those prices would be for one or
all of the following:

1. she was a famous person in her field. like an actor, or someone like
chiuly. he does'nt even make the stuff he directs other's to make stuff.
and you woulf expect to see the higher prices, but the stuff does look
profesional.

2. if she used a special glass. dichroic, youg., some art glass (any art
glass), hand made, etc. she used spectrum, and kokomo, nothing terribly
special.

3. if it was a complex piece. that snake panel, no bigger then half of a
door, $7500. if the snake was actually cut into tiny pieces of glass, i
could understand the high price. but it was'nt, it was foil overlayed,
"a process she says wouldn't look right as seperate pieces". which is'nt
true it would look more varied, and it would'nt be the lazy persons,
out.

primarily it's just alot of gall. it reminds me of the story of an
ex-husband of a friend of mine. he was at a craft show once, and saw all
the expensive stained glass. he throught, "hey i could do that". he took
a few classes. made stuff in his kitchen then tried to sell it. the
problem was, that he was a slob, the pieces look like a 4 year old made
them, and he tried to charge 5 times what a profesional would charge. he
thought, just because it's stained glass people would shell out the
money regardless how it looks. or how well it's made.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 09:13:14 1999
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:35:07 -0500
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Ya gets what ya pays for....?
A sucker born every minute....?

It pays to shop around....!

Linda Campbell

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 09:25:53 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Bob E Duchesneau <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:42:34 -0600
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> I bet she does care and will have something to say when this thread is sent
> to her. 


She may well be a lurker on this list, and be aware of the discussion. 
Of course if my work was being critiqued...I'd say something about it.  
'Course, as we all know, I'm not one to keep my mouth shut!;o)

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 09:37:19 1999
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X-Path: fair.net!andor
From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Stained Glass in Mosque
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:34:09 -0500
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Did anyone happen to watch King Hussein's funeral?  I happen to catch part
of it, and was looking at the wonderful glass behind the casket and people
stepping up to pay honor to the dead King.  I kept watching hoping that the
camera would pan around and let us see more of the wonderful work.  I guess
this was a private mosque in the palace.  I was wondering who did it, and
what the window depected...  Guess I will never know.
Linda Jo



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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 09:51:37 1999
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:56:49 +0000
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> Any of you Bungians know of a web site that may have a legal form for the
> liability purpose? 

Glad you're all right, Luanne. I used the search engine at 
http://askjeeves.com to find "waiver of liability" -- these could be 
reworked to your purpose:

http://www.smsg.org/Waiver.htm
http://www.maboli.com/seva/lohgarh/waiver.html


Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 10:10:06 1999
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE:Disparity in Pricing
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> I went to that site and thought her work was beautiful.  She may have a
> clientele in a large city (NYC or SanFran.) that is willing to pay 
that price

Nope, although everyone in those cities can see her site. She's

Kopcsandy, Leah (STAINEDGLASSART-DOM)
   306 West Bridge Street
   Morrisville, PA 19067-2302


Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 10:15:18 1999
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From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
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Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:50:25 -0500
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They have a potluck in a stained glass studio??? Now there's a liability
case just waiting to happen... lead poisoning, anyone?  Yipes.


Not really....the studio and the room they use to eat in are very much
seperate.  The food and the glass/lead  never meet.
Needless to say, I am sure everyone washes their hands as well.    The =
owner
is very safety conscience and 'stress' the dangers of working with lead.

Take Care,
Soraya


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<DIV>They have a potluck in a stained glass studio??? Now there's a=20
liability<BR>case just waiting to happen... lead poisoning, =
anyone?&nbsp;=20
Yipes.<BR><BR><BR>Not really....the studio and the room they use to eat =
in are=20
very much<BR>seperate.&nbsp; The food and the glass/lead&nbsp; never=20
meet.<BR>Needless to say, I am sure everyone washes their hands as=20
well.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The owner<BR>is very safety conscience and =
'stress' the=20
dangers of working with lead.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Take Care,</DIV>
<DIV>Soraya<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 10:33:47 1999
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Subject: NG - German Anyone ?
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:19:18 EST
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Hi All,

Thanks to those of you who responded. I thought I'd said this, but then got
distracted. Ginny is happily off the the license plate frame engraver. We'll
share the finished product.

Richard
Glassics Artglass
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 10:45:40 1999
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing
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Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:35:54 +0000
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> for a competitive bid. (I'd have done all three is glass for a mere 
$5000.)

It's true: some clients simply prefer to pay top dollar. I proposed 
for a very complicated web site at $7,500. The client opted for UUNet 
('cause they advertise on TV?) at $50,000.

The final site was full of spelling errors, bad links, and so on. The 
client later told me he could *never get hold of anyone at UUNet, 
etc. (great customer service, eh?).

They'd've been better off with me as a web developer 'cause I at 
least answer the phone. <grin>

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 10:59:02 1999
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: VIRUS ALERT......]
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:12:05 +0000
Message-ID: <199902111705.MAA15457@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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"Guts to Say Jesus" Hoax is not a virus and is a hoax. It is a sham,
meant only to panic new or inexperienced computer users. 


> >>  Forward this
> >> letter out to as many people as  you can. 

On the other hand, forwarding the message to as many people as you 
can jams up email servers, clogs everyone's hard drives, 
etc. If you receive a virus alert, go to any search engine and look 
up "virus alert" to see if it's true or a hoax before notifying 
anyone else. <smile>

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:15:15 1999
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In a message dated 2/11/99 8:09:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bshep@dircon.co.uk writes:

<< 
 I take this moment to decline to define what Art is!!!
 
 I will say this though - with all due deference to Pam. Usually when I look
 at other peoples work I am a inspired and I get ideas. This didn't happen
 when I looked at this site. Make of that what you will.
 
 BtB >>



I just heard this the other day but I forgot who said it.  :(

"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.
A man who works with his hands and head is a craftsman.
A man who works with his hands, head and heart is an artist."


Dianne
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:16:30 1999
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My favorite quote from Robert Heinlien is: "Never underestimate the power of
human stupidity."

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Linda Campbell [mailto:lcbell@memach.com]
		Sent:	Thursday, February 11, 1999 10:35 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	RE: Disparity in Pricing

		Ya gets what ya pays for....?
		A sucker born every minute....?

		It pays to shop around....!

		Linda Campbell

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">My favorite quote from Robert Heinlien =
is: &quot;Never underestimate the power of human =
stupidity.&quot;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Linda Campbell =
[<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:lcbell@memach.com">mailto:lcbell@memach.com</A>]</FONT></=
B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thursday, February 11, 1999 10:35 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">RE: Disparity in Pricing</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Ya gets what ya pays for....?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">A sucker born every =
minute....?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">It pays to shop around....!</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Linda Campbell</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:32:41 1999
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From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:42:30 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.14230.0>
References: <<000001be5592$14fa80a0$8c669cd1@default>>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited
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--------------BDE4C7D9F3A28DEAC022C427
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Bob E Duchesneau wrote:

> >>Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the
> same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her
> prices.<<snip<<
>
> I bet she does care and will have something to say when this thread is sent
> to her. When a person posts stained glass product for sale and gives a price
> I believe it deserves comment. Would I buy it or not and why. Failure to
> answer these questions makes discussion rather pointless.
>
> Most of us are here to learn and thereby form opinions. I have just
> completed a very carefull review of the site and have only steeled my
> OPINION that the work is way far over priced and not very good at that. Crap
> is crap and failure to smell it and report it is not one of my short
> comings. I will say the site is well designed and loads nicely. Bob
>
> Comments and lack of respect for a fellow artist are two different issues. I
> felt a sincere lack of respect regarding this artist. I agree that comments
> are important, don't get me wrong. It's the way the comment is presented in
> this forum. We have no idea as to why prices are the way they are for some
> artists. Artistry goes beyond the limits of materials, workmanship that is why
> we call it art or so I thought. How many people went to that site to check it
> out and made judgements?

Secondly, many artists that don't access the world wide web and have been in
business for years don't price based on someone else's prices, they don't care.
They price by materials, workmanship etc. I would never send someone to the
stated site and "say if you really want to see overpriced go here". That is
absolutely appalling to me. Telling someone to check around to find the best
artist they are comfortable with is what I will usually say. This thread to me
has shown some true colors in some and I am just disgusted. Raise your prices if
you don't feel your getting what your worth. Obviously the aforementioned artist
has and I bet she is loving every minute of it!

Pam



--
*********************************

Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

Moswood Mountain Limited
http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1


--------------BDE4C7D9F3A28DEAC022C427
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<HTML>
Bob E Duchesneau wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>>>Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people
who are thinking the
<BR>same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her
<BR>prices.&lt;&lt;snip&lt;&lt;

<P><I>I bet she does care and will have something to say when this thread
is sent</I>
<BR><I>to her. When a person posts stained glass product for sale and gives
a price</I>
<BR><I>I believe it deserves comment. Would I buy it or not and why. Failure
to</I>
<BR><I>answer these questions makes discussion rather pointless.</I><I></I>

<P><I>Most of us are here to learn and thereby form opinions. I have just</I>
<BR><I>completed a very carefull review of the site and have only steeled
my</I>
<BR><I>OPINION that the work is way far over priced and not very good at
that. Crap</I>
<BR><I>is crap and failure to smell it and report it is not one of my short</I>
<BR><I>comings. I will say the site is well designed and loads nicely.
Bob</I>

<P>Comments and lack of respect for a fellow artist are two different issues.
I felt a sincere lack of respect regarding this artist. I agree that comments
are important, don't get me wrong. It's the way the comment is presented
in this forum. We have no idea as to why prices are the way they are for
some artists. Artistry goes beyond the limits of materials, workmanship
that is why we call it art or so I thought. How many people went to that
site to check it out and made judgements?</BLOCKQUOTE>
Secondly, many artists that don't access the world wide web and have been
in business for years don't price based on someone else's prices, they
don't care. They price by materials, workmanship etc. I would never send
someone to the stated site and "say if you really want to see overpriced
go here". That is absolutely appalling to me. Telling someone to check
around to find the best artist they are comfortable with is what I will
usually say. This thread to me has shown some true colors in some and I
am just disgusted. Raise your prices if you don't feel your getting what
your worth. Obviously the aforementioned artist has and I bet she is loving
every minute of it!

<P>Pam

<P>&nbsp;

<P>--
<BR>*********************************

<P>Pamela Burns-Tappan
<BR>Executive Director
<BR>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists">http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists</A>

<P>Moswood Mountain Limited
<BR><A HREF="http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited">http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited</A>
<BR><A HREF="http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1">http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1</A>
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------BDE4C7D9F3A28DEAC022C427--

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:33:31 1999
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass in Mosque
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:46:36 +0000
Message-ID: <199902111739.MAA16085@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> of it, and was looking at the wonderful glass behind the casket 

It's actually been posited that the earliest "stained glass" was let 
into openings in stucco surrounds in the Middle East.

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:39:37 1999
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:31:28 -0800
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I think who ever did her web site goofed and added an extra 0 to all of
her prices.
Speaking of.
I like seeing the price of an item beside that item.  I don't like
having to look around the site to see what the price is.
What do the rest of you think about that?
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:56:56 1999
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To: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
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Subject: Re: Stained Glass in Mosque
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:58:19 -0500
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Linda Letscher wrote:

> Did anyone happen to watch King Hussein's funeral?  I happen to catch part
> of it, and was looking at the wonderful glass behind the casket and people
> stepping up to pay honor to the dead King.  I kept watching hoping that the
> camera would pan around and let us see more of the wonderful work.  I guess
> this was a private mosque in the palace.  I was wondering who did it, and
> what the window depected...  Guess I will never know.
> Linda Jo
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:56:59 1999
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X-Path: fidnet.com!dawnm
From: "Dawn" <dawnm@fidnet.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Original Intent of Message Re:  Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:00:34 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.4034.0>
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Just like any other form of communication, with e-mail we
sometimes stray from the original question and get caught up in
the resulting controversy.  Before we waste time in a dispute I'd
like to turn this back to the crux of my question:

        >When someone has requested advice regarding pricing in the
        >past, primarily the same people respond.  Is it my limited
        >knowledge and a very small cross section of bungi that has lead
        >me to believe that the bungi responses were the norm??

My reason for asking about the "normal" prices charged is very
simple, and not based in jealousy.  I am a hobbyist and do not sell
anything I create.  What I create I create for my own enjoyment.
Having said that, I am running out of room at home and I am going
to move some of my larger panels to my office.  If someone should
approach me and want something I made, I would not object to
letting them have it for a *fair* price since that will just allow me to
buy more glass.  Therefore, I thought I should at least have a *fair*
pricing structure in mind.

Now I know we have had discussions in the past about how under-
valuing your work is not just detrimental to you, but to other glass
artists.  I happen to pay the mortgage with a paycheck from a
salaried position.  So, if I let go of a piece for the cost of the
materials and a small pittance for my time, what does that do to the
other serious glass artists that are struggling with the blood, sweat
and tears of actually trying to make a living doing this?  (It is only
through my exposure to bungi that I came to realize this.)

Likewise if I price based on comparison of prices on websites and
I overprice the item, yes, I just might sell it to someone who would
unknowingly pay the inflated price.  But that's not something I would
want to do, especially to business associates I will be working with
for years.  So we're back to what is a fair price in the real-world.
Therefore, I do believe discussions on undervaluing/overpricing do
have a place.

This is evidently a contentious subject that might just be best
dropped.  The fact that we inevitably end up comparing apples
and oranges doesn't help.  You just can't compare the value of the
caliber of work done by Dani, Howard, Bob Oddy and other
distinguished artists to the level of work I produce.  That is why I
specified a particular site, because it was more run-of-the-mill and
wasn't painted and fired, plated with layers, full of bevels and wasn't
Tiffany-style lamps.

Thank you to those that replied to me with pricing suggestions.

I use Bungi as a learning tool, and I certainly wouldn't mind hearing
solicited critiques of particular pieces. It might help those of us still in
the learning process.  I am in the process of designing a new window
and would be interested to hear the advice,  suggestions and even
the criticisms on it. I'm willing to offer it up for your unabashed opinions
when completed.

Dawn


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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 12:01:22 1999
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From: Luanne6556@aol.com
To: nadinesfolly@erols.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:52:24 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.185224.0>
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My big scare of the week........I was unloading sheets of glass from a crate
and cutting the sheets up for a smaller storage bin.   I was working
practically naked in sandals, shorts and a tank top, it is 80 degrees here.
So you all can picture what happened.  I was careless (although I didn't even
realize what I was doing) and picked up a full sheet from a flat surface
across the short end at about 1/3 of the way up AND the sheet just snapped in
half, right in my hands.  The end closer to me scraped down my entire left
side before it hit the floor.   The crash was noisy and drew a crowd.   I have
a large scrape on my left arm, several cuts on my left leg and ankle and a big
piercing in my right palm.  But most of all, I am reminded of how serious this
could have been, could have hit a major artery or required stitches.  I am
still thinking of all the glass people I know with major scars from glass
injuries and think I narrowly escaped this time. Today I went to work in
closed shoes, long sleeves and pants and a  renewed respect for glass.  All
this in the wake of all the Bungi talk of student injury and lawsuits, and
this happened to me a "PROFESSIONAL".  SAFETY FIRST.  LUANNE
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 12:06:22 1999
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From: Luanne6556@aol.com
To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:07:31 EST
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In a message dated 2/11/99 5:52:24 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes:

Albert,
   Thank you for finding the waiver info.  I have bookmarked both sites for
future  students.    
Luanne
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 12:25:52 1999
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:29:57 +0000
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> "A man who works with his hands is a laborer.
> A man who works with his hands and head is a craftsman.
> A man who works with his hands, head and heart is an artist."

Yes, and a person who decides into which of the three above 
categories someone *else fits is a critic. <smile>

(If you decide that about yourself, it's something different.)

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 12:49:41 1999
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To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: House & Garden article
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:06:11 -0500
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March issue of H & G has an article on Toots Zynsky's fused bowls. Check
it out. Beautiful & interesting
K See

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 12:53:49 1999
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From: Luanne6556@aol.com
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:59:03 EST
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Suzanne,
   Seriously, I have been teaching since 1980 without any release forms.  I
must say that I have met the nicest people through teaching and have
established long term friendships with many students.  It is wonderful to
share the love of glass and to see new students fall in love with glass.  I
always say to a bleeding student "Now you can honestly say you have put your
blood, sweat and tears into this project."

LUANNE
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:02:06 1999
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:40:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.9407.0>
Precedence: bulk

My 2� worth.  I suspect this woman is an Excellent Salesperson.  I think
one reason she able to get these high prices has as much to do with
"selling herself" as it does selling her work.  Would you buy insurance
or a car you really liked from a salesman you didn't care for?  I
wouldn't.  All top salespeople have one thing in common, the ability to
sell themselves.

Karen


>Ya gets what ya pays for....?
>A sucker born every minute....?
>
>It pays to shop around....!
>
>Linda Campbell
>
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>


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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:08:56 1999
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: bshep@dircon.co.uk
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:40:47 EST
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In a message dated 2/11/99 5:09:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
bshep@dircon.co.uk writes:

<< I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and
 another will buy it for >>


That certainly is the bottom line.  Stained glass is also a craft which means 
that anyone can do it.  Using a pattern and glass recommendations will result
in an appealing product.  Because of this fact, there will always be a huge
variance 
both price and quality.  

Another reality is that most people are poorly equipped to judge quality in
stained glass.
Good marketing suggests people by sizzle not hogs.

The result is that a stained glass craftsperson with marginal skill and
excellent self promotion can do well - however it's probably true in many
fields of endeavor.
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:34:41 1999
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'PDRUSS@aol.com'" <PDRUSS@aol.com>, "glass@bungi.com"
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:53:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.95314.0>
Precedence: bulk


 I think, as a group we should be able to dish out criticism as well as 
praise. We were quick to praise Robert Oddy's work when we found it and 
rightly so. I don't think anyone would have thought twice had they seen 
similar price tags on Oddy's work because his work was clever, good, 
original and pleasing art. The woman on the site in question takes the same 
pattern, makes it several times for different folks and still calls it 
"original".  If I were to have paid her price for an "original", I'd be 
real ticked off the see the same thing - different color - in my friend's 
home. Not much worry here for me though. Even if I won the lottery, there 
are plenty of others' works I pay for first!

Linda 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:36:06 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: HiimLaura@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:48:54 EST
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In a message dated 2/11/99 6:02:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, HiimLaura@aol.com
writes:

<< There is right, and there is wrong. To blatantly overcharge a consumer who
 probably does not know the difference between mediocre and superior
 workmanship (and this includes quality of design, ie: flow of lines,
placement
 of lines, etc.) is wrong. >>

Excuse me, but our entire capitalistic system is based on this premise.  The 
market decides price.  There is no monopoly on stained glass.  Consumers 
can shop around, educate themselves and make wise purchases.  That's why
we call it a "free" market.  

We're talking truth, justice and the American Way.



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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:44:36 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Pamela Burns-Tappan" <ptap@pacifier.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:16:04 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.4164.0>
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>>How many people went to that site to check it out and made =
judgements?<<

Here is the link: http://www.stainedglassart.com    Check it out. On =
page 1 go to the lady in red and click on it to enlarge. Having done =
that, just look at her head. The run off lines make her grotusque in =
IMO. Check out that parasol, again looks like basic beginner work IMO. =
Check out the text and see if you get that message fron the pic. =
$3500.00! IMO this panel is not worth the cheap glass it is made from. I =
would say that the basic materials have lost value by being used in this =
way.

Go to the lamp section. At first sight the grape lamp looked good. Click =
it up to larger size and note that it is a four sided lamp. I would =
expect it to at least be made on a rounded form. $3500.00! I think not =
but it is still a nice item for a home craft.

Go over the boxes. Pretty=3D yes. $500.00=3D no way. No wonder the maid =
broke them!

I believe that much can be learned from this site and no one need be =
offended.

Am I crying sour grapes because I can not get these prices? I think not =
because I would not long consider such a misuse of client trust.=20

Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&gt;&gt;How many people went to that =
site to=20
check it out and made judgements?&lt;&lt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Here is the link: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.stainedglassart.com">http://www.stainedglassart.com</A=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Check it out. On page 1 go to the lady in red and click on it to =
enlarge. Having=20
done that, just look at her head. The run off lines make her grotusque =
in IMO.=20
Check out that parasol, again looks like basic beginner work IMO. Check =
out the=20
text and see if you get that message fron the pic. $3500.00! IMO this =
panel is=20
not worth the cheap glass it is made from. I would say that the basic =
materials=20
have lost value by being used in this way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Go to the lamp section. At first sight the grape =
lamp looked=20
good. Click it up to larger size and note that it is a four sided lamp. =
I would=20
expect it to at least be made on a rounded form. $3500.00! I think not =
but it is=20
still a nice item for a home craft.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Go over the boxes. Pretty=3D yes. $500.00=3D no way. =
No wonder the=20
maid broke them!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I believe that much can be learned from this site =
and no one=20
need be offended.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Am I crying sour grapes because I can not get these =
prices? I=20
think not because I would not long consider such a misuse of client=20
trust.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D6>Bob</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow =
Stained Glass=20
92026<BR>Please note new address of:&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:bobdu@prodigy.net">bobdu@prodigy.net</A></FONT></DIV></BOD=
Y></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:52:04 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS
From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: [Fwd: VIRUS ALERT......]
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:59:25 EST
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In a message dated 2/11/99 1:59:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes:

<< 
 
 > >>  Forward this
 > >> letter out to as many people as  you can. 
 
 On the other hand, forwarding the message to as many people as you 
 can jams up email servers, clogs everyone's hard drives, 
 etc. >>



Can we say SPAM?  :)


Dianne  >^..^<
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:59:20 1999
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X-Path: socent.org!atf
From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>, "bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Stained Glass in Mosque
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:25:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.10252.0>
References: <<36C31A3B.5B86D695@socent.org>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

My message was lost...This is what I said

I too noticed the windows and thought of bungi and knew you were all trying like
me to see as much detail the tv allowed.  :)  K See

ATF Distribution Center-K. See wrote:

> Linda Letscher wrote:
>
> > Did anyone happen to watch King Hussein's funeral?  I happen to catch part
> > of it, and was looking at the wonderful glass behind the casket and people
> > stepping up to pay honor to the dead King.  I kept watching hoping that the
> > camera would pan around and let us see more of the wonderful work.  I guess
> > this was a private mosque in the palace.  I was wondering who did it, and
> > what the window depected...  Guess I will never know.
> > Linda Jo
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 14:03:19 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:29:39 -0600
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> I would never send someone to the stated
> site and "say if you really want to see overpriced go here". That is absolutely appalling to me. Telling someone to check around
> to find the best artist they are comfortable with is what I will usually say.


That was not at all what I said.  You misunderstood me.  No one had
complained about my prices. And I didnt send them to other sites to
price compare.  I sent them to see what people were doing with stones.
I never once said..."Look at their prices and compare them to mine."

I will stand by the statement, that it doesnt bother me a bit for people
to see that my prices are not only fair, but my work is quality work...

I said to *you* folks, that it doesnt bother me at all that their work
was (in my opinion) over priced.  Not only were my prices better, but so
was my quality.  I will be the first to tell even a potential buyer that
a particular stone is not my best work, and I *will not* charge full
price for something that isnt top quality.   I can back that up with
names and phone numbers of people that I wouldnt take full price from..

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 14:21:49 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:41:47 -0500
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Hi Brian-

When it comes to defining art, I always like to start with the dictionary=
. =

When one looks up the words "art" and "artist",
one will find some inherent concepts that offer very good =

guidelines for the judging.  A simple exercise, but very very
enlightening.  ;-)

best,

Dani Greer

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 14:32:58 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:41:55 -0500
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Okay, could someone post this gal's URL again so I can look up the site. =

I'm dying of curiosity now!

;-)

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 14:47:56 1999
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From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu Feb 11 12:42:25 1999
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Albert

Hate to disagree with you but it seems she has roots in $P$R$I$N$C$E$T$O$N$
NJ. (The dollar signs are silent but always present.) The area code suggests
that she moved across the river to Pa. 

Knowing Princeton her prices begin to make sense. For those who don't know
the area I'll try to explain. 

Princeton is a historic, read pre-revolution, town. Currently it's
population falls into four main groups. Old time residents who bought their
homes prior to 1970 and are being forced out due to escalating prices and
taxes. University students; a fairly transient group. Senior university
professors and administrators.  Newer residents who can afford the escalated
prices and think name brands are always better than unknowns. Most of this
last group are of the type Albert mentioned. They would rather brag about a
mediocre piece that cost $5000 than a quality piece that cost $500. 

I should explain that I spent a lot of time in the area in the late '70s and
80's. Most of the time was spent with people in the first group. Most of
their homes predate the WWII building boom and had some beautiful
architectural features. Most of them were also retired or approaching it. As
housing prices rose properties were reassessed and many long time residents
were facing taxes higher than the mortgage.  One couple would be paying
about one half of the purchase price each year in taxes. (They bought the
house in 1946 with his military back pay as the down payment.) Families were
forced to sell homes of 20 plus years and move to more affordable areas.

The people who bought these houses were mostly yuppies and those of
inherited wealth. People to whom status is important and money is how status
is measured. Those who survived the recession of the late 80's now have more
money than they know what to do with. As I said they look at the price tag;
if it is expensive it must be good.

If I sound a little bitter toward the new residents it is because I am.
Friend and neighbors were now scattered across the country. They turned
historic old building into modern structures. Something like tearing down a
100 year old church and erecting a glass and chrome building in its place.
Both have there place but the old world beauty is lost. 

One last description and I'll get off my soapbox. Take the high price
sections of Manhattan put them in a small area of New Jersey and you have
Princeton.
 
Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net]
		Sent:	Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:57 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	RE:Disparity in Pricing


		> I went to that site and thought her work was beautiful.
She may have a
		> clientele in a large city (NYC or SanFran.) that is
willing to pay 
		that price

		Nope, although everyone in those cities can see her site.
She's

		Kopcsandy, Leah (STAINEDGLASSART-DOM)
		   306 West Bridge Street
		   Morrisville, PA 19067-2302


		Albert
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: Disparity in Pricing</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Albert</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hate to disagree with you but it seems =
she has roots in $P$R$I$N$C$E$T$O$N$ NJ. (The dollar signs are silent =
but always present.) The area code suggests that she moved across the =
river to Pa. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Knowing Princeton her prices begin to =
make sense. For those who don't know the area I'll try to explain. =
</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Princeton is a historic, read =
pre-revolution, town. Currently it's population falls into four main =
groups. Old time residents who bought their homes prior to 1970 and are =
being forced out due to escalating prices and taxes. University =
students; a fairly transient group. Senior university professors and =
administrators.&nbsp; Newer residents who can afford the escalated =
prices and think name brands are always better than unknowns. Most of =
this last group are of the type Albert mentioned. They would rather =
brag about a mediocre piece that cost $5000 than a quality piece that =
cost $500. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I should explain that I spent a lot of =
time in the area in the late '70s and 80's. Most of the time was spent =
with people in the first group. Most of their homes predate the WWII =
building boom and had some beautiful architectural features. Most of =
them were also retired or approaching it. As housing prices rose =
properties were reassessed and many long time residents were facing =
taxes higher than the mortgage.&nbsp; One couple would be paying about =
one half of the purchase price each year in taxes. (They bought the =
house in 1946 with his military back pay as the down payment.) Families =
were forced to sell homes of 20 plus years and move to more affordable =
areas.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The people who bought these houses =
were mostly yuppies and those of inherited wealth. People to whom =
status is important and money is how status is measured. Those who =
survived the recession of the late 80's now have more money than they =
know what to do with. As I said they look at the price tag; if it is =
expensive it must be good.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">If I sound a little bitter toward the =
new residents it is because I am. Friend and neighbors were now =
scattered across the country. They turned historic old building into =
modern structures. Something like tearing down a 100 year old church =
and erecting a glass and chrome building in its place. Both have there =
place but the old world beauty is lost. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">One last description and I'll get off =
my soapbox. Take the high price sections of Manhattan put them in a =
small area of New Jersey and you have Princeton.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Albert Lewis [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net">mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.ad=
elphia.net</A>]</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:57 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">RE:Disparity in Pricing</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt; I went to that site and thought =
her work was beautiful.&nbsp; She may have a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt; clientele in a large city (NYC =
or SanFran.) that is willing to pay </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">that price</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Nope, although everyone in those =
cities can see her site. She's</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Kopcsandy, Leah =
(STAINEDGLASSART-DOM)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp; 306 West Bridge =
Street</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp; Morrisville, PA =
19067-2302</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Albert</FONT>
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 14:54:29 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Shirley Balloch" <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:41:32 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.44132.0>
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>>I like seeing the price of an item beside that item.  I don't like
having to look around the site to see what the price is.
What do the rest of you think about that?
Shirley B<<

I too like to see the price of an item conviently displayed. When it is not
I tend to wonder if it is to high for what is being offered. When I am asked
to enquire for pricing I simply press my close button. Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 14:57:16 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Original Intent of Message Re:  Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:27:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.112735.0>
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Hi Dawn-

Whatever you sell your work for, it's important to remember that you're
raising the visibility of glass art.  The more glass out there, the more
it's in the consciousness of the public.  Folks often complain about all
the off-shore glass being imported... I say, bring it on!  The more
merchants who stock glass, the more places I can refer customers.  I can'=
t
meet demand in my town... we're at a point where we've had to specialize
and raise our prices to cull our market.  And, I'm running out of studios=

to send people to, because we're all so swamped.  And, because of it, we'=
re
losing customers... people are finding alternatives to stained glass
because our S.G. industry here can't meet the demand.  We could use about=

three studios that do nothing but affordable cabinet doors, beveled
entries, etc.  Nothing fancy... just straightforward, attractive
architectural glass.  There are four decent studios in this town (includi=
ng
us, and we specialize in liturgical glass now and kiln-fired glass
painting), 500,000 in the county expected to grow to 900,000 population b=
y
the year 2010.  Is there some opportunity here, do you think??!!  And, yo=
u
should see the honker houses they're building with tons of huuugggge
windows!  Especially over the bath tubs!  If only 1% of the population
decided they needed obscuring stained glass over their tubs, that would b=
e
5,000 commissions for four studios.  Uh huh, we'd have to hire the entire=

bungi group to meet the demand!  You see my point... the opportunity is
there if the industry as a whole raises its visibility.
Does that make sense?  So don't protect your own turf!  Get together with=
 a
few other glass artists and run a big ad together and promote the art...
it'll mean more business for everyone!  Competition is good for everybody=
. =

And, just for the record, so is controversy.  No need to be afraid of tha=
t
either .... as long as everyone is respectful to each other.  I still thi=
nk
Albert is wrong about government funding of the arts, but I respect and
adore him anyone.  He's still my friend.... even if he is wrong.  (duckin=
g
quickly and running for cover..... ;-0!) By the way, Dawn, the crucifixio=
n
window is Michael's... giving credit where it's due.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 15:11:37 1999
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From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: o/t multiple copies of the same piece of art. was Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:13:47 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.211347.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 2/11/99 2:50:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, lcbell@memach.com
writes:

<<  If I were to have paid her price for an "original", I'd be  real ticked
off the see the same thing - different color - in my friend's  home. >>


I haven't done any "fine glass" shows but I've been to some 2D art shows (not
as an artist) that tell you that you can't have multiple copies of the same
piece of art. 

Then you go in and look at the show and see the same piece of art in photo
prints, laser prints or whatever in different sizes.  When I asked about that,
I was told that different sizes or different coping methods count as
"different pieces" even if the subject is the exact same thing. 
You can have: 
one 5x7 laser print, 
one 8x10 laser print ,
one 11x14 laser print,
so on & so on of the same piece of art. And also have 
 one 5x7 photo print 
one 8x10 photo print ............
And they are all "different pieces" no multiples.

I don't understand that. 


Dianne   >^..^<
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 15:21:22 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:27:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.112731.0>
Precedence: bulk

THANK YOU for sharing that Luanne... anyone who has had a "close call" ha=
s
endless and forever respect for the material.  It only takes a few second=
s
to sever all the tendons in your hand or chop off your toes... sorry to b=
e
graphic, but it's always a very real possibility when handling large shee=
ts
of glass.  It doesn't take much to end a glass career.  Don't be stupid. =

Be safe.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 15:29:06 1999
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:48:04 +0000
Message-ID: <199902112141.QAA18803@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk

> The woman on the site in question takes the same 
> pattern, makes it several times for different folks and still calls it 
> "original".  If I were to have paid her price for an "original", I'd be 
> real ticked off the see the same thing - different color - in my friend's 
> home. 

Wait a minute! <grin> She said the pieces are original, not unique. 
If she designed and built them, they're original. She didn't say 
there are no others like them.

I have a Marc Chagall print that's original. Sure, he printed 
hundreds of them, but it's still from his hand and I value it for 
that. (Don't get all impressed; I paid like $15 for it 30 years ago.)

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 15:31:30 1999
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X-Path: wasatch.com!edge
From: edge@wasatch.com (Brian Edginton)
To: glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: text
Subject: Re: Stained glass for sale
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:51:38 -0700 (MST)
Message-ID: <m10B41K-000bNrC@mail.wasatch.com>
References: <<00a801be5605$ea689420$ca839cd1@default>>
Precedence: bulk

Bob D writes:
> 
> On another list we are discussing the merits of the stained glass at: =
> http://www.stainedglassart.com =20
> 

Merits? I think not, rather the tone of the thread has been to trash
the work and bash the audacity of the artist who charges those prices.

> It might prove interesting to check out this site and comment on the =
> offerings. Bob


I hope this list shows a bit more restraint.


-- 
Brian Edginton                    |  edge@wasatch.com
Edginton and Associates           |  http://www.wasatch.com/~edge/
Systems Consulting                |  801.567.0740
                                  | Opinions expressed are...
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 15:50:03 1999
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From: Jennifer Frisbee <jenfrisbee@usa.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Advice on first tools
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:01:00
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.610.0>
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Hi...I just joined on a few weeks ago, but I have already learned a lot from the artisans on this list!

Quick question...I am a new student, but plan on becoming a serious hobbyist.  I am looking at buying my first grinder and band saw, and was interested in the PowerKits modular system featured in the Inlaid catalog.

Has anyone had any experience with this set?  I have been told by some that it is not available in the U.S. yet, while another man said he could get it for me if I wanted to order it.

Is it a good deal for the money, or do you have a better recommendation for a newbie?


____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 16:08:31 1999
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:42:29 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.64229.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

I've pondered all the points well made. My initial reaction to the
critical post, was to me it was border line slamming. That is was "irked
my tater" as my daughter would say. Criticism is healthy yes, over
pricing hey we have all done it one time or another. It was the way the
post was presented in the first place, it was the way I personally
interpreted it.

Bob and all you were merely being brutally honest with your opinions and
I'm not saying that I don't disagree with some of them. This is a tough
business we're in it's a challenge for all of us.

But I would like to keep criticism of someone's work to a respectful
level here on bungi. If I misunderstood anyone, tulsa suzanne etc. I
apologize. Typing when irritated and tired is not my best call lately as
I can see :) It's also my german blood that gets me in trouble. Maybe
it's time for a glass of wine, a break from classes, a break from the
E-Tour schedule and some popcorn. And mentioning the E-Tour just now. I
will say that we are working our tail ends off and it will be the event
of the year, well one of the events of the year :)

Pam

--
*********************************

Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

Moswood Mountain Limited
http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1


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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 16:13:45 1999
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From: "Jak N Wolfy" <rjlcon@ticnet.com>
To: <Luanne6556@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:49:46 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.104946.0>
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Luanne,

That sounds about like the classes in my shop. I've taught for about 6 years
and when a new student cuts their finger the first time, I usually
congratulate  them, tell them that they are now an official stained glass
person and hand them a band-aid. I've never had the first problem with
anyone getting upset with it.                         Jackie
-----Original Message-----
From: Luanne6556@aol.com <Luanne6556@aol.com>
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>; glass@bungi.com
<glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability


>Suzanne,
>   Seriously, I have been teaching since 1980 without any release forms.  I
>must say that I have met the nicest people through teaching and have
>established long term friendships with many students.  It is wonderful to
>share the love of glass and to see new students fall in love with glass.  I
>always say to a bleeding student "Now you can honestly say you have put
your
>blood, sweat and tears into this project."
>
>LUANNE
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 16:53:20 1999
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: prices
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:52:22 -0500
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Okay, I've fully perused the site and have decided that I am going to
make some more business card holders and charge...um...$150 each.  I'm
worth it.

I'm in the process of setting up spring craft fairs and deciding what to
make for them.  Have to have something new and fresh, y'know.  But I
also need those business card holders, so I'll be searching through my
scrap boxes.

Also have designed a square foot abstract panel to use up some of the
bevels I have around.  It's no sense hording them, is it?  John's made a
nice oak frame for it.  Then there's the mosaic I designed (no, I will
never do KISS again!) of a covered bridge.  New England, you know.

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 16:54:47 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Dawn" <dawnm@fidnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Original Intent of Message Re:  Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:55:46 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.65546.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>My reason for asking about the "normal" prices charged is very
simple, and not based in jealousy.  I am a hobbyist and do not sell
anything I create.  What I create I create for my own enjoyment.
Having said that, I am running out of room at home and I am going
to move some of my larger panels to my office.  If someone should
approach me and want something I made, I would not object to
letting them have it for a *fair* price since that will just allow me to
buy more glass.  Therefore, I thought I should at least have a *fair*
pricing structure in mind.<<

It is very hard to give an estimate for a stained glass panel when the
cartoon, materials and workmanship are not known.

Assuming that you do reasonably good work I would judge a panel like the red
lady at: http://www.artglass.com to be worth from $200.00 to $300.00.

If your panel is more complex, then the price should go up. If your
soldering is below average- then let the low end be your guide. The
referenced panel would seem to have about $75.00 worth of material involved.
Making a profit over cost of material alone of $125.00 to $225.00 should
fit.

I know a man who worked in colored plexiglass by a most unusual technique
that he invented. He priced one of his panels of King Tut at $15,000.00 to
ensure that it would not sell. It did. And he was not overly happy. Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Bob E Duchesneau <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:15:54 -0600
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References: <<1999Feb11.44132.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I figure if the price isnt listed it falls into the catagory of 

"If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it"

Suzanne

Bob E Duchesneau wrote:
> 
> >>I like seeing the price of an item beside that item.  I don't like
> having to look around the site to see what the price is.
> What do the rest of you think about that?
> Shirley B<<
> 
> I too like to see the price of an item conviently displayed. When it is not
> I tend to wonder if it is to high for what is being offered. When I am asked
> to enquire for pricing I simply press my close button. Bob
> 
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 17:37:59 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>, Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:18:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.131830.0>
Precedence: bulk

I checked out the site, and Bob, you're so correct about those run-off
lines on the red lady's hat.  The pink lady with the tree in the upper le=
ft
corner is a much better design.  Try not to use those break-lines, folks,=

they're kind of amateurish... you don't need them, or at least they're no=
t
that obvious, with a good design.

My guess is the pricing is a case of wishful thinking.... nothing wrong
with that!  I seriously doubt she has a lot of customers at that price
level, though.  In my neck of the woods, that caliber of work goes for
between $50 - $100 s.f. , not much more.  However, if you do that kind of=

work, and are charging less than $50 s.f., you're under-pricing yourself.=
 =

Yes, you can lose business that way.... lots of it, because your customer=

will wonder if you know what your talking about!  ;-)

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 17:41:37 1999
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From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:03:30 -0800
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Hi all,
Maybe I should keep my mouth shut BUT here's my 2 cents, hmmm, I can't find
that cents key any where...grin.

I have seen the Canadain government spend 5 million dollars on a single
piece of art as described by Brian (although he probably hasn't seen or
heard of it,...grin)... I wasn't asked if I wanted to buy it, but appears
that I have.

And I've also seen 12 lines sandblasted for a price tag of $25,000.00...wish
it had been me, but wasn't.
 
I know of someone else getting religious paintings done for 75.00 sq.ft and
then he charges 800.00 sg.ft to cut some glass for it...this I do find
funny, but it's true.

So if anyone can sell a 20 piece window for 1200.00...so what, it certainly
doesn't bother me.
(I'm working on a piece (32 pieces)...*all spectrum glass* and the price is
900.00, the fellow is happier than H*LL with the price.) 

But it sure is *sad* to see folks jump on someone's else work and say it's
sh*t. And charges too much. I'd truely be horridified (SP)...can't spell
worth beans! 
My opinion is....I guess if she can pull it off...all the power to her. I'm
having more troubles understanding how a guy in Vancouver,BC can sell towels
for 100.00 @ piece and more???...he's making a killing at it both in Canada
and the USA!!!

Cindy...who swore she was going to be quiet because she didn't *fully* read
the last negative thread, but this kinda struck a nerve also.
Have a GOOD day guys...grin!



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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 17:46:09 1999
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From: stainglasborzoi@webtv.net (GLORIA DRAG)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Arab Doors
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:27:37 -0500 (EST)
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Recently there were a few lines relating to the stained glass seen at
the funeral of King Hussien.. This reminded me  of a book I bought at
the beginning of my adiction to stained glass.. The book is James
Hubbell's Palace Doors of Abu Dhabi..  His work of art with stained
glass and/or carved wood is magnificent... Fire motiffs made from red
bevels,peacocks, a dove of jewels.. Wish I could share these photos with
bungi.. 
Gloria

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:00:31 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:52:33 -0500
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-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:   Dani Greer, =

To:     Pamela Burns-Tappan, INTERNET:ptap@pacifier.com
        =

Date:   2/11/99 12:29 PM

RE:     Re: Disparity in Pricing

I disagree, Pam.  I think this is exactly the place to point out that the=

Emporer's new clothes, well, are a bit scant.  Artists through the ages
have always known that when you place your work in the public square, you=

set yourself up for criticism... or praise.  Both sides of the coin are
part of the game.

Best regards,

Dani Greer (who's survived many a critique... good and bad.)
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:06:46 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Fine Arts Crafts shows
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:58:24 -0600
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Anyone here that has done many fine arts/crafts shows ever met or know
Larry Greer, watercolor artist?

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:10:02 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Jennifer Frisbee <jenfrisbee@usa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:08:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.14840.0>
References: <<1999Feb12.610.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Jennifer Frisbee wrote:
> 
> Hi...I just joined on a few weeks ago, but I have already learned a lot from the artisans on this list!
> 
> Quick question...I am a new student, but plan on becoming a serious hobbyist.  I am looking at buying my first grinder and band saw, and was interested in the PowerKits modular system featured in the Inlaid catalog.
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with this set?  I have been told by some that it is not available in the U.S. yet, while another man said he could get it for me if I wanted to order it.
> 
> Is it a good deal for the money, or do you have a better recommendation for a newbie?
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
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inland grinders are good, but there saws are not. as a begginer i would
get the grinder (the biggest one you can afford). mine is a wizard from
inland. the bandsaw i would recommend is the gemini ringsaw. but you
really don't need one. 98% of all cuts can be and really should be done
by hand.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:25:08 1999
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From: "Tami Siddens" <tamis@soltec.net>
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Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:17:07 -0000
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  =20
    I certainly understand the concern about liability release - seems a =
certain amount of paranoia comes with aging.  Found a site that might be =
helpful, it's a fill in the blank type, but will need some changes for =
class purposes.  http://reslife.tamu.edu/dived/guide96/Release.htm=20
=20

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certainly understand the concern about liability release - seems a =
certain=20
amount of paranoia comes with aging.&nbsp; Found a site that might be =
helpful,=20
it's a fill in the blank type, but will need some changes for class=20
purposes.&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://reslife.tamu.edu/dived/guide96/Release,eyour">http://resli=
fe.tamu.edu/dived/guide96/Release.htm</A>=20
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:29:37 1999
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: <daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:18:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.141831.0>
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Well Vic, I hate to disagree with you.....but I know of what I speak.
In fact we are working on a Catholic Church in Princeton and the folks there
are pretty dollar smart.
And artwise too.  I don't think she is fooling anyone but herself with those
prices.  People who collect glass and would pay those prices for artwork
aren't buying her work.  Sorry.  But its true.
I would love to talk with her "clients", they are probably relatives.
I also like the fact she is looking for grant money......lol.  Someone who
sells for those prices is not in need of any grant money. Large commissions
maybe.....grant money Nope.

my best,
pj

Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Member International Guild of Glass Artists
-----Original Message-----
From: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano <daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:25 PM
Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing


>This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
>------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55FD.4E1FDB30
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Albert
>
>Hate to disagree with you but it seems she has roots in $P$R$I$N$C$E$T$O$N$
>NJ. (The dollar signs are silent but always present.) The area code
suggests
>that she moved across the river to Pa.
>
>Knowing Princeton her prices begin to make sense. For those who don't know
>the area I'll try to explain.
>
>Princeton is a historic, read pre-revolution, town. Currently it's
>population falls into four main groups. Old time residents who bought their
>homes prior to 1970 and are being forced out due to escalating prices and
>taxes. University students; a fairly transient group. Senior university
>professors and administrators.  Newer residents who can afford the
escalated
>prices and think name brands are always better than unknowns. Most of this
>last group are of the type Albert mentioned. They would rather brag about a
>mediocre piece that cost $5000 than a quality piece that cost $500.
>
>I should explain that I spent a lot of time in the area in the late '70s
and
>80's. Most of the time was spent with people in the first group. Most of
>their homes predate the WWII building boom and had some beautiful
>architectural features. Most of them were also retired or approaching it.
As
>housing prices rose properties were reassessed and many long time residents
>were facing taxes higher than the mortgage.  One couple would be paying
>about one half of the purchase price each year in taxes. (They bought the
>house in 1946 with his military back pay as the down payment.) Families
were
>forced to sell homes of 20 plus years and move to more affordable areas.
>
>The people who bought these houses were mostly yuppies and those of
>inherited wealth. People to whom status is important and money is how
status
>is measured. Those who survived the recession of the late 80's now have
more
>money than they know what to do with. As I said they look at the price tag;
>if it is expensive it must be good.
>
>If I sound a little bitter toward the new residents it is because I am.
>Friend and neighbors were now scattered across the country. They turned
>historic old building into modern structures. Something like tearing down a
>100 year old church and erecting a glass and chrome building in its place.
>Both have there place but the old world beauty is lost.
>
>One last description and I'll get off my soapbox. Take the high price
>sections of Manhattan put them in a small area of New Jersey and you have
>Princeton.
>
>Vic M.
>Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:57 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: RE:Disparity in Pricing
>
>
> > I went to that site and thought her work was beautiful.
>She may have a
> > clientele in a large city (NYC or SanFran.) that is
>willing to pay
> that price
>
> Nope, although everyone in those cities can see her site.
>She's
>
> Kopcsandy, Leah (STAINEDGLASSART-DOM)
>    306 West Bridge Street
>    Morrisville, PA 19067-2302
>
>
> Albert
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to:
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>------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55FD.4E1FDB30
>Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
><HTML>
><HEAD>
><META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
>5.5.2448.0">
><TITLE>RE: Disparity in Pricing</TITLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Albert</FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hate to disagree with you but it seems =
>she has roots in $P$R$I$N$C$E$T$O$N$ NJ. (The dollar signs are silent =
>but always present.) The area code suggests that she moved across the =
>river to Pa. </FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Knowing Princeton her prices begin to =
>make sense. For those who don't know the area I'll try to explain. =
></FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Princeton is a historic, read =
>pre-revolution, town. Currently it's population falls into four main =
>groups. Old time residents who bought their homes prior to 1970 and are =
>being forced out due to escalating prices and taxes. University =
>students; a fairly transient group. Senior university professors and =
>administrators.&nbsp; Newer residents who can afford the escalated =
>prices and think name brands are always better than unknowns. Most of =
>this last group are of the type Albert mentioned. They would rather =
>brag about a mediocre piece that cost $5000 than a quality piece that =
>cost $500. </FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I should explain that I spent a lot of =
>time in the area in the late '70s and 80's. Most of the time was spent =
>with people in the first group. Most of their homes predate the WWII =
>building boom and had some beautiful architectural features. Most of =
>them were also retired or approaching it. As housing prices rose =
>properties were reassessed and many long time residents were facing =
>taxes higher than the mortgage.&nbsp; One couple would be paying about =
>one half of the purchase price each year in taxes. (They bought the =
>house in 1946 with his military back pay as the down payment.) Families =
>were forced to sell homes of 20 plus years and move to more affordable =
>areas.</FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The people who bought these houses =
>were mostly yuppies and those of inherited wealth. People to whom =
>status is important and money is how status is measured. Those who =
>survived the recession of the late 80's now have more money than they =
>know what to do with. As I said they look at the price tag; if it is =
>expensive it must be good.</FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">If I sound a little bitter toward the =
>new residents it is because I am. Friend and neighbors were now =
>scattered across the country. They turned historic old building into =
>modern structures. Something like tearing down a 100 year old church =
>and erecting a glass and chrome building in its place. Both have there =
>place but the old world beauty is lost. </FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">One last description and I'll get off =
>my soapbox. Take the high price sections of Manhattan put them in a =
>small area of New Jersey and you have Princeton.</FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp;</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</FONT>
></P>
><UL><UL>
><P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
>Message-----</FONT></A>
><BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Albert Lewis [<A =
>HREF=3D"mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net">mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.ad=
>elphia.net</A>]</FONT></B>
><BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
>SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:57 AM</FONT>
><BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
>FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
>FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
><BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
>FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">RE:Disparity in Pricing</FONT>
></P>
><BR>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt; I went to that site and thought =
>her work was beautiful.&nbsp; She may have a</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt; clientele in a large city (NYC =
>or SanFran.) that is willing to pay </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">that price</FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Nope, although everyone in those =
>cities can see her site. She's</FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Kopcsandy, Leah =
>(STAINEDGLASSART-DOM)</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp; 306 West Bridge =
>Street</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp; Morrisville, PA =
>19067-2302</FONT>
></P>
><BR>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Albert</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">For subscription changes, please mail =
>to: glass-request@bungi.com</FONT>
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>list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: =
>glass@bungi.com</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Archives available at <A =
>HREF=3D"http://www.bungi.com/glass" =
>TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></FONT>
></P>
></UL></UL>
></BODY>
></HTML>
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>

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:47:03 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:11:14 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.01114.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 2/11/99 2:40:42 PM, balloch@netbridge.net wrote:

>I like seeing the price of an item beside that item.  I don't like
>having to look around the site to see what the price is.
>What do the rest of you think about that?

I'm with you. The first thing I look for on anything I'm even vaguely
interested in is the price tag, so I know if it's in my "do-able" price range
or if it would be futile to even think about it (in which case I don't care to
waste my time OR the pushy sales rep's discussing it!!!!!!!!!!).

IMO, anyone who won't give you a price up-front either has something to hide
or is otherwise trying to mess with your head. That goes for everything from
Ginsu knives to vacuum cleaners to encyclopedias to real estate to objets
d'art in a gallery (or a web site).

Of course, that's assuming there's a set price - we all know that some things,
like "asking prices" on real estate, are negotiable, but that number had
better be there! If it's an auction situation, I want to see appraisal and
minimum opening bid info right off the bat.


Sparks, feeling even feistier than usual today..........
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:50:35 1999
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From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:15:29 EST
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.01529.0>
Precedence: bulk

The other side of the coin (as pointed out by my husband) 

We have long talked of trying to do craft shows. I like to make small things
like boxes. He says we should at least have a few big things to draw in the
customers. OK, I said, "what? "

He responses was, "We could make that fireplace screen we have long talked
about for ourselves and then just take it to "show." If someone tries to buy
it we could put this truly outrageous price on it. That will turn them off and
if they still want it for what price, we just take the $$$$ and make ourselves
a new one."  :)

Dianne
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 19:00:50 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
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Subject: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:55:57 -0600
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> the event
> of the year, well one of the events of the year :)


Drinking my nightly wine, Pam, I say come on over girlfriend, there is
plenty for both of us!  

I can honestly say the E tour will be the event of the year for me! ;o)
Thanks for all the hard work you guys are doing.  I am excited.
Sorry I havent gotten back to any of you as to where I gonna be able to
catch it...

now to change the subject...

I am slowly starting to change over my family website to my glass
website (if I could only get my ISP to cooperate).

Several have told me they have never expected their websites to generate
$$ for their checkbook (forget savings).  What I am asking, of you with
glass/studio etc...websites..  Do you get new buyers from your website?
Assuming people like what they see there....what can I expect?
Should I just expect to be able to write off my ISP $ on my taxes?  A
place to send potential clients for an online portfolio? Or...can I
expect to generate sales?

Or can I expect a public critique? ;o)

Thanks.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 19:12:27 1999
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From: "Dean Johnson" <dmj@cyberportal.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Stained Glass in Mosque
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:29:18 -0500
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Linda Jo wrote:

> this was a private mosque in the palace.  I was wondering who did it, and
> what the window depected...

I believe Islamic law forbids the use of pictorial representations in a
mosque, so the design must be geometric.

Elizabeth Johnson
dmj@cyberportal.net

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Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:25:28 EST
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In a message dated 2/11/99 5:49:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com writes:

<< 
 The people who bought these houses were mostly yuppies and those of
 inherited wealth. People to whom status is important and money is how status
 is measured. >>


So, it's OK to take advantage of them?

Sorry, my conscience wouldn't let me.


Dianne >^..^<
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 19:23:17 1999
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From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>, "Pamela Burns-Tappan" <ptap@pacifier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:58:34 -0500
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Good evening Pam,

The problem being with someone charging outrageous prices for mediocre work
is that it gives all glass artists a bad name. And I personally think people
have a right to question mediocre work.
Just my personal opinion.

my best,
pj
Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Member International Guild of Glass Artists
-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing


>I've pondered all the points well made. My initial reaction to the
>critical post, was to me it was border line slamming. That is was "irked
>my tater" as my daughter would say. Criticism is healthy yes, over
>pricing hey we have all done it one time or another. It was the way the
>post was presented in the first place, it was the way I personally
>interpreted it.
>
>Bob and all you were merely being brutally honest with your opinions and
>I'm not saying that I don't disagree with some of them. This is a tough
>business we're in it's a challenge for all of us.
>
>But I would like to keep criticism of someone's work to a respectful
>level here on bungi. If I misunderstood anyone, tulsa suzanne etc. I
>apologize. Typing when irritated and tired is not my best call lately as
>I can see :) It's also my german blood that gets me in trouble. Maybe
>it's time for a glass of wine, a break from classes, a break from the
>E-Tour schedule and some popcorn. And mentioning the E-Tour just now. I
>will say that we are working our tail ends off and it will be the event
>of the year, well one of the events of the year :)
>
>Pam
>
>--
>*********************************
>
>Pamela Burns-Tappan
>Executive Director
>The Stained Glass Artists
>http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists
>
>Moswood Mountain Limited
>http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
>http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1
>
>
>----
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>

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Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:59:05 -0500
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2/11/99 3:41 PM Dani Greer GreerStudios@compuserve.com

>Hi Brian-
>
>When it comes to defining art, I always like to start with the dictionary=
>. =
>
>When one looks up the words "art" and "artist",
>one will find some inherent concepts that offer very good =
>
>guidelines for the judging.  A simple exercise, but very very
>enlightening.  ;-)
>
Yes it was Dani - here's the one that grabbed me:
     the conscious use of skill and creative imagination esp. in the 
production of aesthetic objects - also - works so produced.

Thanks!!!
Suzanne

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 19:32:41 1999
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From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Pricing stained glass
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:26:56 -0800
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This post has the correct URL, I think! Bob

>>My reason for asking about the "normal" prices charged is very
simple, and not based in jealousy.  I am a hobbyist and do not sell
anything I create.  What I create I create for my own enjoyment.
Having said that, I am running out of room at home and I am going
to move some of my larger panels to my office.  If someone should
approach me and want something I made, I would not object to
letting them have it for a *fair* price since that will just allow me to
buy more glass.  Therefore, I thought I should at least have a *fair*
pricing structure in mind.<<

It is very hard to give an estimate for a stained glass panel when the
cartoon, materials and workmanship are not known.

Assuming that you do reasonably good work I would judge a panel like the red
lady at: http://www.stainedglassart.com to be worth from $200.00 to $300.00.

If your panel is more complex, then the price should go up. If your
soldering is below average- then let the low end be your guide. The
referenced panel would seem to have about $75.00 worth of material involved.
Making a profit over cost of material alone of $125.00 to $225.00 should
fit.

I know a man who worked in colored plexiglass by a most unusual technique
that he invented. He priced one of his panels of King Tut at $15,000.00 to
ensure that it would not sell. It did. And he was not overly happy. Bob
Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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Subject: color me strange
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:43:01 -0600
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wouldnt be the first time...but from one starving artist to some who may
not be quite as broke...but never hurts to get a free shirt, to work
in...

http://petrix.com/shirt
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 20:06:19 1999
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Subject: Pricing - For a UPS Claim
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:08:56 EST
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I have a different problem to do with pricing.  I finally got around to
shipping my daughter's chandelier that I made her for Christmas (so I'm a
little late, she understands!).  Just to be safe, I insured it for $600.  Good
thing I did because UPS dropped it and dinged it (even though it was marked
FRAGILE) and it arrived with about eight cracks in the shade.  I don't even
want to think about repairing it.  We have called UPS and they will go out and
take a look at it, but does anyone know if I will have a problem getting the
insured amount if I made it myself?  (i.e. I don't have a receipt for it.)
Even though I don't sell my work, I am fairly familiar with prices and feel
that $600 was a fair value for it if it were to be purchased at a quality
stained glass store.  If you valued it at the hours I put into it (I'm rather
fussy and slow) it would be more like $2000 but I'm sure no one would pay it.

Has anyone had a similar experience with UPS or know what I might have to do
to prove that the shade was worth $600?

Thanks a bunch!
Brenda
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:42:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.164235.0>
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Well, I have to agree with Cindy.  Whatever our assessment, and it =

may be true, it's not necessary to use derogatory expressions to
communicate our opinions.  We all have too much class to lower
ourselves using foul language... which really is only a sign of =

small-mindedness.  There are other ways to say it isn't worth the
price tag.... the best way, of course, is to simply not buy it!  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 20:27:40 1999
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From: Luanne6556@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:22:16 EST
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Sparks,	AND EVERYONE
		Couldn't help but chuckle with the shoelace bit.
  Thanks for your post, feeling much better today, physically and mentally.
Thanks for the post from Linda Jo and Dani too.  Dani, I did have nightmares
about the end of a career.   What would I do then?   With or without toes?
Luanne
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:42:42 -0500
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I agree ... you should not get a saw until you learn to cut glass well
by hand... This will teach you how to treat the medium with respect.
Glass doesn't like to be cut certain ways..... and you'll learn very =

quickly the ways of glass when you cut by hand........................ I
would even encourage you to skip the grinder for a =

while so you don't become dependent on it and start spending =

a fortune on grinder bits like so so many folks we know.  (You know
who you are out there <smile>)!  Just some thoughts from an old
dawg.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/   =

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Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:10:41 EST
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In a message dated 2/11/99 6:30:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes:

<< 
 Wait a minute! <grin> She said the pieces are original, not unique. 
 If she designed and built them, they're original. She didn't say 
 there are no others like them. >>


So what does "one of a kind" mean? 

No others with the exact same design 
or 
no others with the same color glass and the butterfly finding is in a
different place?

Dianne >^..^<


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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 21:09:17 1999
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Subject: Re: Arab Doors
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In a message dated 2/11/99 8:47:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
stainglasborzoi@webtv.net writes:

<< Recently there were a few lines relating to the stained glass seen at
 the funeral of King Hussien.. This reminded me  of a book I bought at
 the beginning of my adiction to stained glass.. The book is James
 Hubbell's Palace Doors of Abu Dhabi..  His work of art with stained
 glass and/or carved wood is magnificent... Fire motiffs made from red
 bevels,peacocks, a dove of jewels.. Wish I could share these photos with
 bungi.. 
 Gloria
  >>


I found this book in a used book store many years ago, long before I ever
tried glass. We had stop on a trip just to look around. I looked through many
books in that shop but bought none. But there are something about this book I
just couldn't leave behind. As the car started to pull away I made my husband
stop and I ran back in to buy it. 

 Over the years I would pull it out and drool through it. It is what finally
got me to try glass. Sadly, I will never be this dedicated to making glass as
this true **artist**.

When we first got our computer 2 years ago one of the first things I did was
search for a site for James Hubbell. I finally found one but there are few
photos of his work on it. But there are books and videos to order.
http://www.sandiegoart.com/JHubbell/

I've never seen his work in person ( wrong coast) but over the years I have
looked at many other glass pieces both in life and in books but never felt
what I feel when I look at Hubbell's work--the beauty and the wonder of such
**Art**.



Dianne >^..^<



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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 21:55:06 1999
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Restoration-Success
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:14:41 PST
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Hi everyone,

Well I just finished soldering the restoration piece I discussed
last week.  It turned out pretty good (I'll post a picture much
later once I've framed and puttied it).

Do I clean the flux off before I putty?  Glass cleaner?
What techniques do you use to clean a leaded panel?

I'm going to use "Old Time Putty" tomorrow and try have it ready for framing
the next day. 


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 22:13:56 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:03:16 -0500
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Yes, Suzanne, the key words in the definition are "skill" and =

"creative imagination"!  For those of you who tuned in late,
we're talking about dictionary meanings of "art" and "artist".
Always very enlightening... and the response from the most
verbose is usually, "Hmmm....".

Best,

Dani Greer =

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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Stained Glass in Mosque
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:10:35 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb18.171035.0>
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Given this sad time for his country and the ties to the US I'm sure if you
posed this question to the Jordanian Embassy you would be able to get an
answer and possibly a photo or brochure. I think his wife is/was American.
The name for this kind of design escapes me at the moment, but it is a
repeating pattern and dates back to the Moors (not much of a history buff...
sorry). Anyway you see it many times in tiles. A central tile surrounded by
different tiles. If you look at it for a while a pattern will emerge around
the center tile, then fade back into the original design.

As they say "With age the memory is the second thing to go". hmmmm I don't
remember the first. (8-)


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 23:13:35 1999
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:17:55 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb18.171755.0>
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Ain't the free market great?  Just ask Bill Gates, Donald Trump, etc.

Ask and ye shall receive. Now where is that soiled TuTu. I'll sell it cheap
.......... $12,000 U.S. (less the IGGA discount of course). $1 for each time
I've had to repair my gnomon. Because nobody has sent me Bios for this
Saturday's posting (note the segway into the bios). If you want the TuTu
after Saturday it will be $12,001 U.S.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 23:31:44 1999
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:26:06 -0600
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Thanks Albert, LOL

may I add .... or a consultant. They don't work with any of the
aforementioned parts (used to be one).



-----Original Message-----
From: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing


>
>> "A man who works with his hands is a laborer.
>> A man who works with his hands and head is a craftsman.
>> A man who works with his hands, head and heart is an artist."
>
>Yes, and a person who decides into which of the three above
>categories someone *else fits is a critic. <smile>
>
>(If you decide that about yourself, it's something different.)
>
>Albert
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 23:44:09 1999
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From: "Ron and Wendy Larson" <larsonrw@pdq.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Wait a minute! You might have a problem. I am getting 6-8 copies =
(duplicates) of every message tonight. Something is seriously wrong! I =
logged on to check mail and had 300+ glass bungi mail. Please get it =
back to 1 copy per message or take me offline until it is fixed. Thanks!

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 23:57:03 1999
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Pricing of Bios
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:48:48 -0600
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If I don't get some bios quickly my gnomon will not be worth 2 cents (U.S.,
Canadian, UK, Australian, etc,)

Please help a poor old Irishman in need.

Send your bios to me please for posting.



Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 00:07:13 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, <PDRUSS@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Arab Doors
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:51:32 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.135132.0>
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>>When we first got our computer 2 years ago one of the first things I did
was
search for a site for James Hubbell. I finally found one but there are few
photos of his work on it. But there are books and videos to order.
http://www.sandiegoart.com/JHubbell/

I've never seen his work in person ( wrong coast) but over the years I have
looked at many other glass pieces both in life and in books but never felt
what I feel when I look at Hubbell's work--the beauty and the wonder of such
**Art**.<<

James Hubbell lives in Julean, CA a few miles from me. He generously opens
his home and studios (read estate) to various educational and worthy causes
several times a year. The tour takes a couple of hours and lets one into a
world where a hobbit would be quite happy. His home is a self made found
treasure.

I could not/would not do some of his body of art but respect it greatly.
This guy has talent coming out of his every breath. Yes, it has over time
made him rather well to do in the banking department.

If you are very interested you might contact the San Diego Art Society and
see when he will let them next run a fund raising tour. Likely next August
or so. Palamor College also has periodic access. Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 00:20:23 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU
From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Shirley's List" <glass@intrastar.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: News From Spectrum Glass
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:22:55 -0800
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I do not own stock in Spectrum but like to push the product anyway. Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net
-----Original Message-----
From: artglass@SpectrumGlass.com <artglass@SpectrumGlass.com>
To: artglass@SpectrumGlass.com <artglass@SpectrumGlass.com>
Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 10:11 PM
Subject: News From Spectrum Glass


Dear Friend:

We've been busy!

There are now 17 colors available in the popular "RR" (Rough-Rolled)
cathedral line and 18 shimmering Art=EDques.  Both lines have grown rapid=
ly,
just as we promised they would.  Rather than bore you with a list of colo=
r
names, we'll invite you to see for yourself:

17 "RR" colors:

http://www.spectrumglass.com/RR

18 Art=EDque colors:

http://www.spectrumglass.com/Artique

Both pages have links to full-size images of every product.

And check out this quarter's Gallery Card, "Merlot."  Artist Chris Cole
used clear "RR" to create the perfect canvas for his winegrape design.
There's a detail of the window on our home page:
http://www.spectrumglass.com

While you're there, admire our new Spectrum T-Shirt and (hot-off-the-pres=
s)
the new "Made with Mosaics" wall poster.  From the home page, follow link=
s
to "GOODIES", then to "Posters" and "T-Shirts".

The newest issue of THE SCORE (#66, March 15, 1999) is available for
download now at:  http://www.spectrumglass.com/LoadZone.html


Thanks, and stay tuned!

Spectrum Glass Company

PS. To our knowledge, everyone receiving this mailing has requested to be
on our e-mailing list. If you would like your name removed from this list
please send us a message with the word "unsubscribe" as the subject and w=
e
will be glad to take you off the list.



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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 00:32:24 1999
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From: "Vincent LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <PDRUSS@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing @ $28.33/hr
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:35:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb11.203556.0>
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My 2 cents.

I won't comment on the work at this site but if this person is selling her
work and is able to live well on her profits, god bless her.

However, all that glitters is not gold.

The one thing that caught my attention was in the description of one of her
panels. This panel was priced at $3500.  As she described the work she put
into it she mentions that it took 124 hours to make.  If you do the numbers,
that comes to $28.33 per hour. (My mechanic bills at $80 / hour, and I have
billed at $600 per hour in my profession)

If she gets an faster she will starve herself out of business.

Ciao

Vic
-----Original Message-----
From: PDRUSS@aol.com <PDRUSS@aol.com>
To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>;
glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing


>In a message dated 2/11/99 6:30:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes:
>
><<
> Wait a minute! <grin> She said the pieces are original, not unique.
> If she designed and built them, they're original. She didn't say
> there are no others like them. >>
>
>
>So what does "one of a kind" mean?
>
>No others with the exact same design
>or
>no others with the same color glass and the butterfly finding is in a
>different place?
>
>Dianne >^..^<
>
>
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 03:42:24 1999
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:15:03 +0000
Message-ID: <199902121008.FAA24234@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> Has anyone had a similar experience with UPS or know what I might have to do
> to prove that the shade was worth $600?

They'll want to see the invoice your company cut for the sale of the 
item, in my experience.

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 05:20:50 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: color me strange
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:21:55 EST
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In a message dated 2/11/99 10:49:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:

> but never hurts to get a free shirt, to work
>  in...


Hey Suzanne de Tulsa,

I find it fascinating that they send t-shirts free of charge.......I filled in
the request form but changed my first name......let's see what mailing lists I
end up on now.  

IA   (or Cia to the t-shirt people)
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 06:07:22 1999
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Family Account'" <shad@mail2.nai.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: prices
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:02:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.320.0>
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Dorothy, if you are serious about the business card holders, I have drawn 
two for medical professions. One is an open mouth with teeth for a dentist, 
the other is nose and eyeglass frames for optician/opthamoligist. Give a 
holler if you'd like jpg files of these and I'll find them this weekend and 
mail from home.

Linda

Okay, I've fully perused the site and have decided that I am going to
make some more business card holders and charge...um...$150 each.  I'm
worth it.

I'm in the process of setting up spring craft fairs and deciding what to
make for them.  Have to have something new and fresh, y'know.  But I
also need those business card holders, so I'll be searching through my
scrap boxes.

Also have designed a square foot abstract panel to use up some of the
bevels I have around.  It's no sense hording them, is it?  John's made a
nice oak frame for it.  Then there's the mosaic I designed (no, I will
never do KISS again!) of a covered bridge.  New England, you know.

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 06:21:36 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875
From: "Evelyn C Mason" <ABBIE23875@prodigy.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Glass holder
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:12:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.31247.0>
Precedence: bulk

I came very close to having a sheet of glass slide off of my work table last
month,right on top of my foot. Also I had trouble with larger squares of
glass sliding on my Morton grid while trying to cut......I cut small strips
of that "no move fabric" that boaters use to keep things from moving around
while out on the water...I'm not sure what it is called and placed them
under the glass...the glass did not budge a bit when I scored....I use it
under my straight edges[Rulers] and anything prone to moving before I want
it to. Hope this helps someone ,it realy works.


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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 06:39:50 1999
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X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig
From: Diane W Manchester <tifstyorig@juno.com>
To: BMarhon@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:40:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.3405.0>
Precedence: bulk

Yes....I had a similar problem.  My father had sent a large oil he
painted, with a solid wood picture frame.  My dad insured it for $500.00.
 The picture arrived in a big box and the wood frame was cracked in half.
 I called UPS and they contacted my dad (who was the shipper).  They came
and picked up the frame, and shipped it back to my dad.  Then, they said
to get a bonafide estimate on reframing the piece and fax it to Mrs. X. 
I did and the total for reframing came to $280.00.  They were quick to
pay and it all worked out.  
It may work differently with your piece, but that was how it worked in my
case.  Hope it works out for you.

Diane Manchester
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 06:56:52 1999
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:59:10 -0500
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2/19/99 12:17 AM Pat Kelly pkelly@n-link.com

>Ask and ye shall receive. Now where is that soiled TuTu. I'll sell it cheap
>.......... $12,000 U.S. (less the IGGA discount of course). $1 for each time
>I've had to repair my gnomon. Because nobody has sent me Bios for this
>Saturday's posting (note the segway into the bios). If you want the TuTu
>after Saturday it will be $12,001 U.S.

Hmmmm...I wonder if a bloody, cracked TuTu could be called art, mounted 
in a case, carted across the country for display (sans wearer, of 
course). Maybe we could use it to help finance the NEA?
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 07:41:30 1999
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff
Date: Fri Feb 12 07:12:02 1999
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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5697.D05818FC
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I think Toby is willing to bid 1000 pounds.
The question is 1000 pounds of what.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Pat Kelly [mailto:pkelly@n-link.com]
		Sent:	Friday, February 19, 1999 12:18 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	RE: Price Disparity & stuff

		Ain't the free market great?  Just ask Bill Gates, Donald
Trump, etc.

		Ask and ye shall receive. Now where is that soiled TuTu.
I'll sell it cheap
		.......... $12,000 U.S. (less the IGGA discount of course).
$1 for each time
		I've had to repair my gnomon. Because nobody has sent me
Bios for this
		Saturday's posting (note the segway into the bios). If you
want the TuTu
		after Saturday it will be $12,001 U.S.


		Patrick
		Roses and Rainbows

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I think Toby is willing to bid 1000 =
pounds.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The question is 1000 pounds of =
what.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Pat Kelly [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:pkelly@n-link.com">mailto:pkelly@n-link.com</A>]</FONT></=
B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Friday, February 19, 1999 12:18 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">RE: Price Disparity &amp; =
stuff</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Ain't the free market great?&nbsp; =
Just ask Bill Gates, Donald Trump, etc.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Ask and ye shall receive. Now where is =
that soiled TuTu. I'll sell it cheap</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">.......... $12,000 U.S. (less the =
IGGA discount of course). $1 for each time</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I've had to repair my gnomon. Because =
nobody has sent me Bios for this</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Saturday's posting (note the segway =
into the bios). If you want the TuTu</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">after Saturday it will be $12,001 =
U.S.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Patrick</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Roses and Rainbows</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 08:43:48 1999
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Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff
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Why sans wearer.
Use a large cage instead of a display case, add one cute puppy that likes
mutton and call it performance art.

Ticket sales among Bungi alone could pay for the E-tour.

Vic M. 
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	suzy@comcat.com [mailto:suzy@ComCAT.COM]
		Sent:	Friday, February 12, 1999 8:59 AM
		To:	glass bungi line
		Subject:	RE: Price Disparity & stuff

		2/19/99 12:17 AM Pat Kelly pkelly@n-link.com

		>Ask and ye shall receive. Now where is that soiled TuTu.
I'll sell it cheap
		>.......... $12,000 U.S. (less the IGGA discount of course).
$1 for each time
		>I've had to repair my gnomon. Because nobody has sent me
Bios for this
		>Saturday's posting (note the segway into the bios). If you
want the TuTu
		>after Saturday it will be $12,001 U.S.

		Hmmmm...I wonder if a bloody, cracked TuTu could be called
art, mounted 
		in a case, carted across the country for display (sans
wearer, of 
		course). Maybe we could use it to help finance the NEA?
		Suzanne
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Why sans wearer.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Use a large cage instead of a display =
case, add one cute puppy that likes mutton and call it performance =
art.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Ticket sales among Bungi alone could =
pay for the E-tour.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vic M. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; suzy@comcat.com =
[<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:suzy@ComCAT.COM">mailto:suzy@ComCAT.COM</A>]</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Friday, February 12, 1999 8:59 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">glass bungi line</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">RE: Price Disparity &amp; =
stuff</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">2/19/99 12:17 AM Pat Kelly =
pkelly@n-link.com</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;Ask and ye shall receive. Now =
where is that soiled TuTu. I'll sell it cheap</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;.......... $12,000 U.S. (less the =
IGGA discount of course). $1 for each time</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;I've had to repair my gnomon. =
Because nobody has sent me Bios for this</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;Saturday's posting (note the =
segway into the bios). If you want the TuTu</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;after Saturday it will be $12,001 =
U.S.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hmmmm...I wonder if a bloody, cracked =
TuTu could be called art, mounted </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">in a case, carted across the country =
for display (sans wearer, of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">course). Maybe we could use it to =
help finance the NEA?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Suzanne</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">----</FONT>
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 09:46:12 1999
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
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Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff
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>I think Toby is willing to bid 1000 pounds.
>The question is 1000 pounds of what.
>
I heard that bid is good ONLY if it completes complete with owner :)

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at:
http://come.to/The_E-Tour

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 10:06:50 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Original Intent of Message Re:  Pricing
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:27:47 -0500
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My pricing scheme:

Price=3D((number of square inches in piece) * complexity factor) * skill
level factor

complexity factor =3D sliding scale of .8 to 1.5 depending on how complex=
 the
piece will be to make. For example, a piece with all straight lines and
simple
curves using easy-to-cut machine-rolled glass (Spectrum) yields a .8
factor.
But a multi-panel installation with plating and/or fired painted glass wi=
th
complex art glass (Youghiogheny or such) yields 1.5.

skill level factor =3D how you rate yourself compaired to other stained g=
lass
artists in the field.  In my first year of professional work I used a 75%=

(multiply by .75) factor because I was still learning and knew that I wou=
ld
improve up to what I consider acceptable professional levels within
a year of steady glass work.  Now my skill level factor =3D 100%.  As I a=
dd
new techniques and win more awards, I will increase the factor.  So a =

Bob Oddy I would rate with a higher skill level such as 150%.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 10:17:09 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Showing the price
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:27:44 -0500
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Message text written by Shirley Balloch
>I like seeing the price of an item beside that item.  I don't like
having to look around the site to see what the price is.
What do the rest of you think about that?<

I do too.  In fact, it was pointed out to me that having the
price easily visible on the item or on a card next to the
item makes customers more at ease about shopping
for glass items.  Many have a fear of having to pick up
an item in order to find the price tag.  They fear breaking
it.  So we should make it as easy as possible for them
to shop our goods.  This includes easy visibility of the
price.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 11:09:33 1999
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To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:27:55 -0500
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Message text written by "M. Savad"
>the bandsaw i would recommend is the gemini ringsaw. but you
really don't need one. 98% of all cuts can be and really should be done
by hand.<

Amen, Mike, to the 98%.  I own a Taurus II ring saw also, but find
that the quickest, most accurate method of cutting is by hand for
the vast, vast majority of cuts.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 11:22:38 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glass holder
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:43:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.54333.0>
References: <<1999Feb12.31247.0>>
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Evelyn C Mason wrote:
> 
> I came very close to having a sheet of glass slide off of my work table last
> month,right on top of my foot. Also I had trouble with larger squares of
> glass sliding on my Morton grid while trying to cut......I cut small strips
> of that "no move fabric" that boaters use to keep things from moving around
> while out on the water...I'm not sure what it is called and placed them
> under the glass...the glass did not budge a bit when I scored....I use it
> under my straight edges[Rulers] and anything prone to moving before I want
> it to. Hope this helps someone ,it realy works.
> 
> ----



there's a material that i'm looking for, it's called Dycem. my
grandmother uses it to hold things in place. and i have a small piece
that i use for cutting. glass does not move on this material. i'd love
to get some, the dydem company still has'nt sent their sample. and i'm
still looking for a catalog that sells the stuff.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 11:33:16 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:21:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.5213.0>
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Precedence: bulk

Suzanne wrote:
> 
> > the event
> > of the year, well one of the events of the year :)
> 
> Drinking my nightly wine, Pam, I say come on over girlfriend, there is
> plenty for both of us!
> 
> I can honestly say the E tour will be the event of the year for me! ;o)
> Thanks for all the hard work you guys are doing.  I am excited.
> Sorry I havent gotten back to any of you as to where I gonna be able to
> catch it...
> 
> now to change the subject...
> 
> I am slowly starting to change over my family website to my glass
> website (if I could only get my ISP to cooperate).
> 
> Several have told me they have never expected their websites to generate
> $$ for their checkbook (forget savings).  What I am asking, of you with
> glass/studio etc...websites..  Do you get new buyers from your website?
> Assuming people like what they see there....what can I expect?
> Should I just expect to be able to write off my ISP $ on my taxes?  A
> place to send potential clients for an online portfolio? Or...can I
> expect to generate sales?
> 
> Or can I expect a public critique? ;o)
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Tulsa Suzanne
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


possibly. i personally don't sell anything on my page. but i've had
offers or curiosities about selling my work online. though the price
ususually turns them off pretty quickly. currently i just don't trust
people (with money), online. then there is shipping, how do you do the
world? etc.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 11:47:08 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: bungi group <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:24:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.52424.0>
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pj friend wrote:
> 
> Good evening Pam,
> 
> The problem being with someone charging outrageous prices for mediocre work
> is that it gives all glass artists a bad name. And I personally think people
> have a right to question mediocre work.
> Just my personal opinion.
> 
> my best,
> pj
> Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
> www.waterw.com/~artglass
> Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
> Member International Guild of Glass Artists
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 7:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
> 
> >I've pondered all the points well made. My initial reaction to the
> >critical post, was to me it was border line slamming. That is was "irked
> >my tater" as my daughter would say. Criticism is healthy yes, over
> >pricing hey we have all done it one time or another. It was the way the
> >post was presented in the first place, it was the way I personally
> >interpreted it.
> >
> >Bob and all you were merely being brutally honest with your opinions and
> >I'm not saying that I don't disagree with some of them. This is a tough
> >business we're in it's a challenge for all of us.
> >
> >But I would like to keep criticism of someone's work to a respectful
> >level here on bungi. If I misunderstood anyone, tulsa suzanne etc. I
> >apologize. Typing when irritated and tired is not my best call lately as
> >I can see :) It's also my german blood that gets me in trouble. Maybe
> >it's time for a glass of wine, a break from classes, a break from the
> >E-Tour schedule and some popcorn. And mentioning the E-Tour just now. I
> >will say that we are working our tail ends off and it will be the event
> >of the year, well one of the events of the year :)
> >
> >Pam
> >
> >--
> >*********************************
> >
> >Pamela Burns-Tappan
> >Executive Director
> >The Stained Glass Artists
> >http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists
> >
> >Moswood Mountain Limited
> >http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
> >http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1
> >
> >

yeah that's pretty much it... on one side, it makes the proffesionals
look good. the prices are high, ours are low and you get a better
product. on the other side though, people will look at those prices and
think all stained glass is to expensive and not even want to know what
your stuff looks like. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 11:58:11 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: BMarhon@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:33:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.5337.0>
References: <<1999Feb12.2856.0>>
Precedence: bulk

BMarhon@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have a different problem to do with pricing.  I finally got around to
> shipping my daughter's chandelier that I made her for Christmas (so I'm a
> little late, she understands!).  Just to be safe, I insured it for $600.  Good
> thing I did because UPS dropped it and dinged it (even though it was marked
> FRAGILE) and it arrived with about eight cracks in the shade.  I don't even
> want to think about repairing it.  We have called UPS and they will go out and
> take a look at it, but does anyone know if I will have a problem getting the
> insured amount if I made it myself?  (i.e. I don't have a receipt for it.)
> Even though I don't sell my work, I am fairly familiar with prices and feel
> that $600 was a fair value for it if it were to be purchased at a quality
> stained glass store.  If you valued it at the hours I put into it (I'm rather
> fussy and slow) it would be more like $2000 but I'm sure no one would pay it.
> 
> Has anyone had a similar experience with UPS or know what I might have to do
> to prove that the shade was worth $600?
> 
> Thanks a bunch!
> Brenda
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

currently i'm a shipper, and work with UPS. these are my presdictions:

they will say they sent the driver to look at the package. the driver
will say it was'nt packed well enough, and you will get nothing. 

glass is an iffy thing, i packed a stuben thingy, it their own box. the
box with 4 times the size of the crystal, and it was densly packed with
newspaper shreds. it arrived chipped, we had to pay for it. UPS claimed
that it was'nt packed properly (but this is how we got it in the first
place).

when you made the claim, you did'nt by any chance mention you made it
did you? it would be easier to say you bought it. and make up a reciept
for it. use word or something. it really should'nt be decieving anyone,
because this may be the reciept you give to everyone. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 12:02:10 1999
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From: Kay Frith Allen <fullspec@sunset.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Box lid mounting tape
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:47:18 -0800
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Precedence: bulk

Hi,
Does anyone use the Clarity Box Lid Mounting Tape?  I bought some a few
years ago and just got around to using them to hold in the small 6" x 9" SG
insert that goes into the top of those wooden jewelry boxes.  The tape is
another alternative to those framer's points.  The tape is 36 inches of
1/8" thick by 7/32" wide black mounting tape.  Does anyone know where I can
buy more of this item or of something else on the market that is similar?
Kay
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 12:16:31 1999
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From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Arab Doors
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:36:35 EST
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In a message dated 2/12/99 12:53:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
BOBDU@prodigy.net writes:

<< 
 If you are very interested you might contact the San Diego Art Society and
 see when he will let them next run a fund raising tour. Likely next August
 or so. Palamor College also has periodic access. Bob >>


LOL, Bob, the chances of me getting to CA are about the same as me going to
the moon. But hopfully someone else on the list can go. 

Yes, I have to say when it comes to James Hubbel's work I have a big case of
hero workship.  :)

Dianne >^..^<
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 12:20:23 1999
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From: "Tami Siddens" <tamis@soltec.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: email learning curve
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:01:05 -0000
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I have read the emails on formatting, unfortunately have just figured out
how to change format.  Information overload!  Sorry for possibly jibberish -
this should fix.   thanks - Tami

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 12:41:02 1999
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:50:43 -0500
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2/12/99 10:34 AM Modiano, Victor vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

>Why sans wearer.
>Use a large cage instead of a display case, add one cute puppy that likes
>mutton and call it performance art.
>
Ouch! (Could be you were a gladiator in a former life?)
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 12:43:50 1999
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:24:39 EST
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In a message dated 2/11/99 6:01:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:

<< Emporer's new clothes, well, are a bit scant.  Artists through the ages
 have always known that when you place your work in the public square, you >>

Also in this case, I think that the degree of critical harshness was a
function
of the price of the work.  Many people expect premium work for premium dollar.

While you have to admire craftspeople who can get super premium dollar for 
average work...  It is probably better for all us, if consumers are well
educated  
and know what they're paying for.

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 13:45:43 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Glenna Rand <gjr@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Restoration-Success
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:47:01 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.20471.0>
References: <<m10BA01-00005WC@daver.bungi.com>>
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In message <m10BA01-00005WC@daver.bungi.com>, Glenna Rand
<gjr@bungi.com> writes
>Hi everyone,
>
>Well I just finished soldering the restoration piece I discussed
>last week.  It turned out pretty good (I'll post a picture much
>later once I've framed and puttied it).
>
>Do I clean the flux off before I putty?  Glass cleaner?
>What techniques do you use to clean a leaded panel?
>
OK my method is to brush the cement (a black linseed oil putty) under
the leads with a stiff brush.  If you use the commercial stuff for the
outside of windows, you can make it black by adding carbon black and you
can thin it with white spirit until it like stiff treacle (molasses).
Then it is ready to brush.  The brushing action cleans the glass and the
leads, so no need for cleaning flux off, nor the glass.

After the putty has been brushed under the cames, you add whiting
(Calcium carbonate) to absorb the excess oils.  Then turn the panel.  do
the same to the second side. 

Turn the panel again.  Using the stiff brush scrub at the glass and
leads, add more whiting, scrub some more.  Turn the panel over, do the
same on the other side. 

By this time you should be getting things pretty clean.  So it is time
to get out the soft brush, to finally polish up the glass and lead work.
This will pull colour onto the came and solder joints and make things
shiny black and the glass sparkling.

It takes time.  But if you do it diligently,  it will be ready for
"tomorrow".  standard putty without whiting will take much longer to
become stiff, wont give a shine to the came, and will require window
cleaner (yuck)

Steve
>I'm going to use "Old Time Putty" tomorrow and try have it ready for framing
>the next day. 
>
>

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 14:11:49 1999
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Glass holder
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:49:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.10490.0>
Precedence: bulk

Mike,

Any store that sells shelf liner or contact paper should carry rolls of
the No-Slip Shelf Liner.  There is a heavy weight and a reg.  My mom uses
this in the motor home to keep dishes and stuff in place.  It is just
like a no-slip router pad that I cut my glass on.

Karen
Think Spring!
giapet@softhouse.com


>Evelyn C Mason wrote:
>>
>> I came very close to having a sheet of glass slide off of my work
table last
>> month,right on top of my foot. Also I had trouble with larger squares
of
>> glass sliding on my Morton grid while trying to cut......I cut small
strips
>> of that "no move fabric" that boaters use to keep things from moving
around
>> while out on the water...I'm not sure what it is called and placed
them
>> under the glass...the glass did not budge a bit when I scored....I use
it
>> under my straight edges[Rulers] and anything prone to moving before I
want
>> it to. Hope this helps someone ,it realy works.
>>
>> ----
>
>
>
>there's a material that i'm looking for, it's called Dycem. my
>grandmother uses it to hold things in place. and i have a small piece
>that i use for cutting. glass does not move on this material. i'd love
>to get some, the dydem company still has'nt sent their sample. and i'm
>still looking for a catalog that sells the stuff.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>--
>Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
>Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
>too and A Look at Sky City
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 14:35:22 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Dean Johnson <dmj@cyberportal.net>
Subject: Re: Stained Glass in Mosque
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:16:50 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.201650.0>
References: <<1999Feb11.142918.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

It is the human figure that is forbidden to be represented in Muslim
cultures. There are lots of plant representations in the Arabic world.
Geometric designs do tend to predominate, but are not exclusive.

Steve (just back from Tunisia)

In message <1999Feb11.142918.0@?>, Dean Johnson <dmj@cyberportal.net>
writes
>Linda Jo wrote:
>
>> this was a private mosque in the palace.  I was wondering who did it, and
>> what the window depected...
>
>I believe Islamic law forbids the use of pictorial representations in a
>mosque, so the design must be geometric.
>
>Elizabeth Johnson
>dmj@cyberportal.net
>
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 14:36:06 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:57:12 +0000
Message-ID: <199902122108.VAA19904@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi All,
I myself got a bit surprised when reading this request. The title 
read FIRST tools, so my thoughts immediately went to consider glass 
cutters and why would one be better than another etc, then to grozier 
and breaking pliers and what other FIRST tools to recommend or 
suggest.
Then I read the body of the text....."glass saw".... "glass grinder".
As FIRST tools??!!
Nah, don't think so.
But I am still not well enough to put myself directly in the firing 
line.
Thank you Dani for rising to the occasion (yet again!!). I couldn't 
agree more!
Dear Newbie..... PLEEZE listen to Dani!
Know that my "job-application" at her studio as a "sweeper-upper" was 
rejected! She (and Michael) have still a lot to teach me (who is an 
even OLDER Dawg!!). Affinity and passion about glass comes with 
handling it with your OWN HANDS, not with machines.
On an analogy,  the same mental and physical battle, especially as 
regards a real "hands-on sweat", a kind of mind over matter, the 
challenge and triumphs you will find if you have ever read Ernest 
Hemingway's "The Old Man and The Sea". It's very elemental, yet very 
exciting. Stained glass is a bit like that too.
 And Dani,  you STILL haven't told me what a "chuck-wagon" is.... :-< 
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Dani wrote:
I agree ... you should not get a saw until you learn to cut glass well
by hand... This will teach you how to treat the medium with respect.
Glass doesn't like to be cut certain ways..... and you'll learn very =

quickly the ways of glass when you cut by hand........................ I
would even encourage you to skip the grinder for a =

while so you don't become dependent on it and start spending =

a fortune on grinder bits like so so many folks we know.  (You know
who you are out there <smile>)!  Just some thoughts from an old
dawg.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 14:59:23 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing
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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:57:12 +0000
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Dear Suzanne de Tulsa, and ALL,

This is THE admission of the year!!!!
While getting more and more ill, yet  trying last Christmas to 
stretch myself between various families and cook for a flipping army, 
the actual Christmas spirit between Brian, myself, Susan, Toby and 
another couple of very close friends, sort of got rather out of gear.
Half way through February there are still carefully and lovingly 
thought out Christmas presents that have STILL not been exchanged.
WORSE than that..... the Christmas Tree is still standing in the 
dining room, complete with all its decorations!!!!
So, between now and Easter, I and my merry little band of close 
family and "extended" family will yet have a Christmas together.
The Christmas Tree will remain until THEN.
So There!!!!  (And "sod" old wives tales about bad luck!!)

The SECOND most important event of 1999 will be  meeting Suzanne de 
Tulsa's eager face in USA and (from what I gather) many others in her 
position. In the last month there have been an avalanche of very 
enthusiastic, impatient and keen leading questions arriving in my 
mailbox. Even and including from Glenna. I feel pretty "shitty" and 
guilty about the delays in answering, purely and simply from lack of 
"oomphh" and physical energy. I AM getting better, but in that I get 
over-ambitious and then run out of steam. So Glenna has soldered her 
project (we had a bit of an exchange about that and I have let her 
down). Get rid of the flux FIRST Glenna, and then cement!!!
Don't leave the cement and whiting for longer than 24 hours, then get 
a stiff scrubbing brush (or old-fashioned nail brush) and start 
cleaning up the excess through brushing it off fairly vigorously in 
circular motion.

So often I hold back, because I realise that 5 minutes of physically 
demonstrating something, gets rid of weeks of verbal attempts at 
explanations.
Carol, you may think that over an expanse of 14 inches of stained 
glass pieces dressed in lead , the anchoring of the glass and lead by 
7 horse-shoe nails creates a forrest amongst which you find difficult 
to manouvre. Not so!! I would have probably had an additional 10 
nails to anchor down. Yet to move, secure, anchor glass and lead is 
really easy and logical. Yet when you are leading, the "seating" of 
the glass in the lead is all important, the securing and anchoring 
paramount.  I come across this mental block time and time again with 
my own students here in UK. If you don't secure and anchor 
everything, all will shift and dance around, totally screw you up - 
unless you are totally and utterly in control. THAT is the excitement 
about leading!

Suzanne de Tulsa represents to me the bright-eyed 'n bushy tailed 
enthusiastic learner (and potential professional) that really turns 
me on as regards teaching a new generation; adding to which her close 
relationship with Mother Eart . A further attraction  is her very 
earthy appreciation of  what Mother Nature REALLY intended to do with 
the grape........

There are a few things up in the air here; the Allentown happenings 
are currently a "moving feast".  The E-Team are working their socks 
off (for nothing other than Love and Thin Air) to make it all hang 
together. I myself have still to get well enough,  to make personal 
contact with individual people/companies who have committed 
themselves to sponsor the tour that is very much designed to be a 
dialogue between You and I.......
Could you.....would you.... possibly..... hang on to your "leading 
problems until then.....  ???
We'll have great fun!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK





Drinking my nightly wine, Pam, I say come on over girlfriend, there is
plenty for both of us!  

I can honestly say the E tour will be the event of the year for me! ;o)
Thanks for all the hard work you guys are doing.  I am excited.
Sorry I havent gotten back to any of you as to where I gonna be able to
catch it...

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 15:12:16 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:57:12 +0000
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Linda,
would it be too much of a bother to include me in your jpg despatch 
of these business cards holders....?
Many, many thanks.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Dorothy, if you are serious about the business card holders, I have drawn 
two for medical professions. One is an open mouth with teeth for a dentist, 
the other is nose and eyeglass frames for optician/opthamoligist. Give a 
holler if you'd like jpg files of these and I'll find them this weekend and 
mail from home.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 15:24:11 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:57:12 +0000
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Hi All,
Byzantine, Patrick m'dear, Byzantine....
Shame on you not to keep your tu-tu in tip-top condition, seeing that 
the time of reckoning is drawing closer and closer.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in  UK

Patrick wrote:
<The name for this kind of design escapes me at the moment, but it is 
a repeating pattern and dates back to the Moors (not much of a 
history buff... sorry). Anyway you see it many times in tiles. A 
central tile surrounded by different tiles. If you look at it for a 
while a pattern will emerge around the center tile, then fade back 
into the original design.

As they say "With age the memory is the second thing to go". hmmmm I don't
remember the first. (8-)


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 15:40:31 1999
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From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, <JJKIRBY@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:42:33 -0800
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>>Also in this case, I think that the degree of critical harshness was a
function of the price of the work.  Many people expect premium work for
premium dollar.<<

Very true in my case. If I had it to do again, I would tone down the
comments while getting the same point across. Dealing with a web site owned
by someone that I do not know really does not call for increasing the
sharpness of my attack. Critical comments can be made with a smile.

When S of Tulsa gets on line I will do a far better job. Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Have class, think glass.

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 15:55:17 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:JJKIRBY@aol.com" <JJKIRBY@aol.com>, Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:53:40 -0500
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Amen!  I always encourage customers to go to every glass shop
in town and compare portfolios as well as prices.  That helps =

them establish standards... it is, as you say, an education and =

most consumers are pretty smart.  I always point out to folks
that our prices are a bit higher (maybe), but we offer some things
that other studios don't - like kiln-fired glass painting and one-of-
a-kind work that's also designed specifically for their location.
And, design and installation is included in the price.  I still chuckle
about the couple that was in a while back going through our
portfolios.... the husband says to the wife, "Wow, this stuff is
like real art!"  Hmmmm.... now there's a concept, I thought to
myself.  At any rate, I know that they were better able to judge
glass art having taken the time to visit numerous studios.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 16:22:26 1999
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Subject: That site was: disparity, etc.
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:42:11 -0500
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I hope you all realized that she's used up a really good URL.

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 16:40:32 1999
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From: "Julia Moseley" <juliam@mindspring.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:31:14 -0800
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My dentist is fantastic, and I'd love to see the JPG of the business card
holders too. It would be a fun present to give to Dr. Gail! :-)

Julia
-----Original Message-----
From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: prices


>Linda,
>would it be too much of a bother to include me in your jpg despatch
>of these business cards holders....?
>Many, many thanks.
>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
>
>Dorothy, if you are serious about the business card holders, I have drawn
>two for medical professions. One is an open mouth with teeth for a dentist,
>the other is nose and eyeglass frames for optician/opthamoligist. Give a
>holler if you'd like jpg files of these and I'll find them this weekend and
>mail from home.
>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 17:19:52 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:36:17 -0600
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References: <<199902122108.VAA19900@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
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> Suzanne de Tulsa represents to me the bright-eyed 'n bushy tailed 
> enthusiastic learner (and potential professional) that really turns 
> me on as regards teaching a new generation; adding to which her close 
> relationship with Mother Eart . A further attraction  is her very 
> earthy appreciation of  what Mother Nature REALLY intended to do with 
> the grape........


Oh God, I'm sooooo scared!  But very excited.  And Elisabeth, you are so
sweet to me.  You just can't know how much I appreciate you.

Anyone have any suggestions as to a good first lead panel to do?  Not
too easy, but not too hard? lol...  Actually, would be good to have the
problems pop up with Elisabeth by my side rather than when I am home by
myself. So a little challenge would be good.  Everytime I look at a
panel with any detail, I can't imagine how you do it with lead came.
Do you miter *every* joint??? ARGHHHHHH. ;o)  Visualising something
grotesque from this lead newbie!  You want it to be about 12"x12", is
that right? 

I *still* dont know *where I am going to meet you, Elisabeth...but
hoping I can follow you to more than one spot! ;o)

Gotta go fluff my tail, ;o)

Tulsa Suzanne, who did marry a pro winemaker (<-- smarter than you knew)
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 17:37:20 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:10:37 -0800
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How did you get UPS to ship it?  They refuse to ship glass in these here
parts of the country.
Shirley B
> 
> > Has anyone had a similar experience with UPS or know what I might have to do
> > to prove that the shade was worth $600?

-- 
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�
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 17:44:43 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: Dawn <dawnm@fidnet.com>
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Subject: Re: Original Intent of Message Re:  Pricing
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:47:40 -0800
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Dawn,
I have been at Bungi for two years.  This subject has come up, twice
where the mainstream answered in great detail.  I suspect, you just hit
a nerve in your wording.
I really hate to tell people to go to the archives, but the answers are
there.
$1-2 per piece of glass, plus $100-125 per sq. ft.  seems to be the
consenses.
Then, if it is your original work, whatever your heart tells you or the
market will alllow.
Bottom line, never sell for less than your guts tell you.  It will nag
at you the rest of your life.
You are the artist, even if you are a beginner.  Part of art, is
trusting that inner knowledge that only you have, and then having the
courage to put the right price tag on it.
Don't despair.  You are on the right track.
Good luck and keep up the good work.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 18:02:21 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: An observation.
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:55:54 -0800
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It has been hard to follow all these threads today(107). I have read up
to 4 replies to a message, before I got to the original message.
This just flabbergasts me.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 18:17:50 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glass holder
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:03:39 -0800
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Organization: Maiden Concepts
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There is a product. I can't remember the name of it for the life of me.
We used it in the nursing home to stop a stroke patient's plate from
moving around while he was trying to eat.  
It comes in table place mat sizes and Wal-mart sells it in various
colors in that part of the store.
I have never used it for glass, but I bet it would work for smaller
peices.  I know it is sold by the roll, cause the Physical therapy dept.
was always cutting up peices of it to work with the stroke patients.
Maybe you can go and check it out at Wal-Mart?
Good luck
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 20:10:33 1999
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: balloch@netbridge.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:35:17 EST
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Hi Shirley-
I got UPS to ship it because they didn't know what it was.  I work for a mail
order company and we ship over 500 packages a day with them.   And we always
insure the packages for actual value ( insurance is included up to $100 at no
extra charge and the extra insurance is very reasonable).  My package cost
under $9 to ship and it was BIG.  We have a professional shipping department
and they used a lot of bubble wrap all the way around and it did not move in
the box and nowhere did the sides touch the box.  I'm mystified how they
managed to break it in so many different places.

The latest is that they want to pick up the broken shade and return it to me -
for what purpose I don't know because I don't think I can fix it.  But this
came from my daughter on my voicemail so I don't know the whole story yet.

Unfortunately, neither of us thought to say I had bought it from someone else
and I think UPS now knows I made it so --- there may be a problem.  However,
since we do between $8,000-$20,000 a week in business with UPS (and I pay
their bill), maybe not.  But I figure I paid for the insurance and I valued
the shade at a fair price so I'm willing to fight with them on it.

Brenda 

<< How did you get UPS to ship it?  They refuse to ship glass in these here
 parts of the country. >>
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 20:43:02 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:10:28 -0600
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> How did you get UPS to ship it?  They refuse to ship glass in these here
> parts of the country.
> Shirley B


Shirley, I have shipped alot of glass stuff UPS, and recieve glass UPS.

They havent asked what I was shipping come to think of it.

I remember I used to (on west coast) have to fill out a form defining
what everything was that I was shipping, dont guess I have had to do
that for a long time.  Wonder why the difference.

My cousin has a neon sign business (makes all Budweisers's signs) and he
ships them UPS.  They know what he is shipping.  
You might want to inquire further.  Perhaps your UPS agent is
misinformed?

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 21:01:29 1999
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From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:58:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.165818.0>
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Hmmm...Saws and grinders,

The saw is certainly something that should wait until you have learned
where to use it and when to just cut some glass.  

As for grinders, you've got to take care not to become a "grinder junkie"
as we call them here.  This tool is great for the occasional fix but has
become a massive crutch.  Worse yet  some "evil glass teachers" or
perhaps ones who just don't know any better have portrayed this tool as a
"necessity" rather than a "nicety".  In the long run countless man hours
are wasted playing with these "labor saving devices" that could be saved
by just learning the craft properly.


Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com



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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 21:59:52 1999
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: She's  Back Again
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:47:35 -0600
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I thought the drugged anchovies would have worked by now. Damn, have to
rethink my position ( and dosage to send to Bournesmith).

Welcome back my dear, I didn't think any bug would be brave enough to even
attempt an infection on such a gracious (note the compliment) poultry queen
of the barnyard. (8-)

Maybe her appetite for Philly Cheesesteaks will wane and I can save some
money. LOL

Get healthy my nemesis, we need your input.

Love to Toby (don't feed him the anchovies I sent you).



Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 23:04:23 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Pattern needed
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:43:12 -0800
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Does anyone know of a pattern for a mini terrium?
Thanks in advance.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 23:24:17 1999
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From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Shisha mirrors
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:52:37 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb12.135237.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

Does anyone know of a supplier here in the states that carries shisha
mirrors for use as mirror tesserae?

Thanks,

Pam


--
*********************************

Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

Moswood Mountain Limited
http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1


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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 00:16:35 1999
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From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:21:04 -0500
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>>>>>>As for grinders, you've got to take care not to become a "grinder
junkie"

Had to laugh at this.....my SG teacher calls them "grinder-aholics".

He teaches us how to use a grinder but has loudly stated several dozen
times.... "I'll have more respect for you if you learn how to cut the glass
rather then grind it to death."

I did just go out and buy myself a grinder (got it today as a matter of
fact) because I do plan working with this meduim for quite awhile to
come...but I certainly plan on practicing my glass cutting skills as
well...and will not apoligize to using it to shave off a milli-meter here
and there to make the whole piece fit and look better.

Take Care,
Soraya


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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 00:31:26 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: esavad@home.net
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Subject: Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:05:30 -0600
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> possibly. i personally don't sell anything on my page. but i've had
> offers or curiosities about selling my work online. though the price
> ususually turns them off pretty quickly. currently i just don't trust
> people (with money), online. then there is shipping, how do you do the
> world? etc.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 

Unfortunately, we cant compare your work and my work. 

I dont even aspire to some of the stuff you do, Mike.  It would be so
far off (read unattainable), it would be too depressing.  I have to be a
little more here and now.

Those that were turned off by your prices were only unable to afford
them.  You do amazing things, Mike.

Mind if I ask where your Azure box sits?

T Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 06:25:35 1999
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:18:33 EST
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Just wanted to mention that when I teach I tell students that they should wear
glasses while scoring glass and soldering, as well as during grinding.  Also,
I tell students they should wear gloves while soldering.  Someone with
sensitive skin could possibly get a rash from chemicals (who knows?).  When I
read about concerns and waivers, I only saw wearing of glasses during grinding
strongly stated and wanted to mention the dangers during soldering (yes,
solder does spit and could land in someone's eye, God forbid, possibly
blinding them and glass flies while scoring, also endangering vision).  Let's
cover all of the bases while we are at it!
Lenore
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 06:55:32 1999
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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:14:11 EST
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Peggy,
   I received three great sites for a waiver form............
http://www.smsg.org/Waiver.htm             
http://reslife.tamu.edu/dived/guide96/Release.htm
http://www.maboli.com/seva/lohgarh/waiver.html
      I hope to have time to fool around with them before the next class.
Luanne
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 07:07:31 1999
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In a message dated 2/13/99 1:00:50 AM, pkelly@n-link.com wrote:

>( and dosage to send to Bournesmith).

=8-O

Patrick, you've poisoned the wrong woman! That's Elizabeth with a *Z* in
Bournemouth. Let's just hope she doesn't have any pets that might be tempted
to eat that fishy-smelling package........


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 07:17:56 1999
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In a message dated 2/13/99 12:02:19 AM, dodgestudio@juno.com wrote:

>As for grinders, you've got to take care not to become a "grinder junkie"
>as we call them here.  This tool is great for the occasional fix but has
>become a massive crutch.  Worse yet  some "evil glass teachers" or
>perhaps ones who just don't know any better have portrayed this tool as a
>"necessity" rather than a "nicety". 

Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely
necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to shreds!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 07:29:56 1999
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Shirley, 
   Thanks for your post,  back to normal around here now and am rewriting the
safety rules for the studio.  Rule number 1  - Do as I say, not as I do.  lol
Luanne
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 07:33:15 1999
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Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:51:46 EST
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Brenda,
    My experience with UPS has always been great, even with insurance claims.
They always ask the contents and it must be double boxed.  I always mark the
boxes   GLASS   FRAGILE, etc., even the smallest parcel.  UPS always sends an
inspector to check to see if it was packaged properly, then they send it back
to me.  I determine whether or not it is repairable and how much.  Then they
send me a check.  If it is a total loss, they send the check and sometimes
they come pick the piece up, sometimes they do not.  But this is with a
business.  In the future, it is best to follow all guidelines so that you are
covered.  It doesn't matter how well you pack it, sometimes you can see tire
tracks on the boxes!!  
Luanne
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 07:50:54 1999
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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:37:50 +0000
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> Just wanted to mention that when I teach I tell students that they should wear
> glasses while scoring glass and soldering, as well as during grinding.  Also,
> I tell students they should wear gloves while soldering. 


Then, even if they don't do any of that, you're covered. You *told 
them so!

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 08:02:42 1999
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From: Jennifer Frisbee <jenfrisbee@usa.net>
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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:18:34
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Thanks for the advice.  I think you are right...I was getting a bit ahead of myself.  I think I'm becoming a tool-junkie just like my husband!

The reason I brought up the saw and grinder bit is due to the Powerkits system we had seen in the Inland catalog.  Since both of us do a good deal of craft work (my husband builds puppets and marionettes), we thought that it might be a good investment.  However, for my stained glass work right now I really don't need the saw at all.  The grinder, however, really helped my last piece come together (a small kaleidoscope with a lot of little pieces)...so I may bite the bullet and invest in one soon.

Well...thanks again....back to the practicing board!

Jen Frisbee - newbie extraordinaire!


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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 08:18:39 1999
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From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: "Shirley Balloch" <balloch@netbridge.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Pattern needed
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:22:11 -0500
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Shirley,

do you mean terrarium?  There is a Wardell book "Terrariums and Planters"
which has a little terrarium in it.  Looks very nice! I'll scan you a
picture of the finished terrarium in the book if you're really interested.

Dany
Kennebec, Inc.
http://www.kennebec-inc.com
http://www.city-net.com/~dany

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 1:54 AM
Subject: Pattern needed


>Does anyone know of a pattern for a mini terrium?
>Thanks in advance.
>Shirley B
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>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 08:39:28 1999
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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:14:06 EST
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Hello all:

I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas concerning the protection of mirror
bottoms (boxes, candle shelters, etc.). I use the aerosol mirror edge sealant
after cutting and grinding, but once in a while I still get a small spot where
the silver will seperate from the mirror glass. Is there anything else I could
apply to the mirror back to prevent this peeling? Any advice would be
appreciated.

Laura P
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 10:12:34 1999
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Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:12:00 -0500
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Shirley Balloch wrote:
> =

> How did you get UPS to ship it?  They refuse to ship glass in these her=
e
> parts of the country.
> Shirley B
> >
> > > Has anyone had a similar experience with UPS or know what I might h=
ave to do
> > > to prove that the shade was worth $600?
> =

> --
> x=9F>"3=16=01=06=90=08
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basically you don't tell them what's in it. all they know it's a box
worth X amount of dollars, weighing this much. it says fragile on the
box, so they know not to drop it from too high a place. and not to place
it under the heavy anvils, just the lighter ones.

---Mike Savad

-- =

Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
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2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 10:31:28 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: balloch@netbridge.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glass holder
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:13:37 -0500
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Shirley Balloch wrote:
> 
> There is a product. I can't remember the name of it for the life of me.
> We used it in the nursing home to stop a stroke patient's plate from
> moving around while he was trying to eat.
> It comes in table place mat sizes and Wal-mart sells it in various
> colors in that part of the store.
> I have never used it for glass, but I bet it would work for smaller
> peices.  I know it is sold by the roll, cause the Physical therapy dept.
> was always cutting up peices of it to work with the stroke patients.
> Maybe you can go and check it out at Wal-Mart?
> Good luck
> Shirley B


it must be the same stuff, Dycem. because my grandmother got it when she
had a stroke. hers was blue in color, and impervious to almost every
kind of chemical.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 10:42:29 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:23:32 -0500
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Suzanne wrote:
> 
> > possibly. i personally don't sell anything on my page. but i've had
> > offers or curiosities about selling my work online. though the price
> > ususually turns them off pretty quickly. currently i just don't trust
> > people (with money), online. then there is shipping, how do you do the
> > world? etc.
> >
> > ---Mike Savad
> >
> 
> Unfortunately, we cant compare your work and my work.
> 
> I dont even aspire to some of the stuff you do, Mike.  It would be so
> far off (read unattainable), it would be too depressing.  I have to be a
> little more here and now.
> 
> Those that were turned off by your prices were only unable to afford
> them.  You do amazing things, Mike.
> 
> Mind if I ask where your Azure box sits?
> 
> T Suzanne


currently it sits next to the fish lamp. i did'nt wash the lis off sell
enough and is a little chalky, but that's ok it blends in with the dust.
and it's easy enough to polish.

i may actually start selling things online. i'm trying to figure out
what things would sell, at what prices (figuring slightly higher to
offset online costs). though i'm not sure what the best pricing method
would be. i figure that someone could send me the check for the whole
thing. then i'd send them the project. it's just a weird trust thing. i
dunno how to work the whole thing out. 

since this is going out to bungi too... what so you guys think is the
best money transfer method? i figure i'd set up a seperate page else
where (geocities does'nt allow that kind of thing for free). right now
it's just the money thing that's messing me up.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 10:53:32 1999
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:37:08 +0000
Message-ID: <199902131730.MAA12061@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely
> necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to 
shreds!

Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building 
lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had 
any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 11:05:59 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: HiimLaura@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: mirror sealant
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:30:29 -0500
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HiimLaura@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hello all:
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas concerning the protection of mirror
> bottoms (boxes, candle shelters, etc.). I use the aerosol mirror edge sealant
> after cutting and grinding, but once in a while I still get a small spot where
> the silver will seperate from the mirror glass. Is there anything else I could
> apply to the mirror back to prevent this peeling? Any advice would be
> appreciated.
> 
> Laura P
> ----
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i found the best thing to do with a mirror, is not to grind it. all
those tiny chips can kill it down the line. were the spots by the edge?
or in the middle? the edge sould be flux, the center would be a scratch
through the coating. for boxes i've always but feet of some kind on the
bottom to protect the furniture and the mirror. also be sure to use
cleaners designed to clean mirror, some cleaners can actually kill a 
mirror.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 11:16:50 1999
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim
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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:37:09 +0000
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> covered.  It doesn't matter how well you pack it, sometimes you can see tire
> tracks on the boxes!!  

The best one I ever saw was a large carton with forklift entry holes 
inserted midway in the box, penetration most of the way through, too. 
It didn't go out that way, but it certainly came back in modified 
form.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 11:55:25 1999
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
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Subject: Re:  She's  Back Again
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:52:49 +0000
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At 09:16 13/02/99 EST, Sparks wrote:
>
>In a message dated 2/13/99 1:00:50 AM, pkelly@n-link.com wrote:
>
>>( and dosage to send to Bournesmith).
>
>Patrick, you've poisoned the wrong woman! That's Elizabeth with a *Z* in
>Bournemouth. Let's just hope she doesn't have any pets that might be tempted
>to eat that fishy-smelling package........
>

Well Lucifer (our Siamese) isnt that keen on fish - prefers a nice piece of
chicken breast hooked gently off my plate while I'm not looking - so he
might survive!
Glad to hear EliSabeth is back with us at last.
EliZabeth in Bournemouth

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 12:21:44 1999
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Please remove us from the mailing list.  Thank you.

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 12:53:51 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Shisha mirrors
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:31:01 -0500
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Hi Pam,

I think you can get those at any bead shop... you mean those =

little round mirrors that are embroidered into East Indian clothing,
right??

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 12:54:24 1999
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Subject: Marketing Mike! was Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:46:38 -0600
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Obviously, marketing is the secret.

You can do such beautiful things, and have such an adventurous whimsical
nature to your artwork.  All you need is to be seen by one *right*
person, and the sky is the limit for you.

Your clientele would be a completely different crowd than say mine...

Have you ever considered donating something of yours to be displayed at
say The Rock an Roll Hall of Fame?  I could see Mick Jagger buying the
azure box to try to appease Jerry Hall, that sort of thing. ;o)

You need an agent! ;o)

Tulsa Suzanne

> i may actually start selling things online. i'm trying to figure out
> what things would sell, at what prices (figuring slightly higher to
> offset online costs). though i'm not sure what the best pricing method
> would be. i figure that someone could send me the check for the whole
> thing. then i'd send them the project. it's just a weird trust thing. i
> dunno how to work the whole thing out. 
> 
> since this is going out to bungi too... what so you guys think is the
> best money transfer method? i figure i'd set up a seperate page else
> where (geocities does'nt allow that kind of thing for free). right now
> it's just the money thing that's messing me up.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:10:10 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:31:04 -0500
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Sorry, Sparks, it's absolutely not necessary with copperfoil... =

we don't grind any more with foil than with lead.   In a foiled =

window of, say, 350 pieces, I *might grind 10 -20.... maybe.
And, that's often only if the glass is thick or rippled, I grind a =

bit of a bevel on each side.  With good cutting and especially
grozing, you'll find the foil won't tear and will stick just fine.
Saves a ton of time not having to wash all that glass dust off.
We never do wash the glass before foiling... we don't seem to
have the problems with excess oil either.  Beats me!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:15:36 1999
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Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
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In a message dated 2/13/99 1:54:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes:

<< 
 Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building 
 lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had 
 any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing.
 
 Albert >>




I thought they had some kind of file to smooth the edges a little. 

Dianne
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:24:02 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Glass holder
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:30:54 -0500
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Hi Shirley--

That knobby rubber net stuff your're talking about is, I think, just
shelf liner... we buy rolls of it from Walmart.  The first time we
used it was to stand in a bath tub during an installation of a =

25 s.f. window over the tub... sure footing and no scuffs on the
$2,000 tub!

best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:31:35 1999
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From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing, and Dani's new computer
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:46:05 -0800
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Hi Dani,
How's that new computer??
Your messages are fully across the page now:):) 
Did something change? 
Actually thought the *memo size* was a trademark <VBG> and I quite liked it.
But this is good too, seems like more to read:)

You always have alot of intelliegent things to say. And I would like to
futher add to your good commments.
 
As an artist grows in their medium and also increases the range of
interests,  their knowledge grows with experience and I feel it's within
their right to be able to expand on their pricing...pretty much what you
said, eh? 

*it has been said that in the world of artists, one who has had the years of
experience, commands the higher prices as compared to the person who just
stepped out into the field.*...and I think I just repeated myself, grin.

I know this sounds contrary to what I said in prior post, but *it is* more
in keeping with my thoughts...now that I have slept on it and gotten over my
sparky nature.
 
But it seems the world of art is changing and the guidlines have
disapppeared and the sky is the limit for some. And has become more of an
economic issue.

Good work done... does speak for it's self and never have I had negative
exposure because of someone else's bad work. To the contrary actually. 

Cindy:)...hey guys don't jump on me -on this one...I'm trying hard to sound
smart:):)...but if it's coming across STUPID...just let me know:)

PS...here's some notes I've collected from a seminar:

-don't aim for height aim for distance.

-when starting out keep the prices for you work below other artist prices
for the same medium and size.

-constantly seek ways of lowering the costs of producing and selling your
work without compromising the quality...eg: bulk buying and doing your own
framing.

-constantly seeks ways of improving the quality and presentation of your
work and then inform dealers and clients of these improvements.

-charge 10% to 30% more for specific commissions.

-be constantly observant of what sells- at what prices. these are
indications of your clients "comfort zone".

-vary the sizes, mediums, and dgrees of detail in your work. this will allow
for  different price levels in your work.

-keep your "ego" in check. moving your prices up too quickly or higher than
the market will bear, can slow or even stop your career- dead in it's tracks.

-beware of family and friends who know little of the art market- pressuring
you to raise your prices. they are well-meaning and might make you feel
good, but you could end up feeling- poor.

-don't raise your prices because you see other artists doing so. watch
carefully to see if their work is really selling or whether it's just
gathering dust.

-be flexible. not all of your work will be masterpieces. understand this and
price your work accordingly.

-be willing and ready to negotiate. don't be offended by people who may want
to "wheel and deal". by doing so they are telling you they like and want
your work.

-decide whether you want a fast nickel or a slow dime. ask yourself, do I
want a lot of my over priced work representing my time, effort and expenses
sitting in storage and gathering dust or do I want to have my resonably
priced work in the possession of people who truely admire, desire and can
afford it. while i have their money to continue my Art, my life and the
lives of my family!!!

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:43:54 1999
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From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing, now orginials
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:46:43 -0800
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A couple years ago I built a *Chagall* dovet cover...
Ya mean it's not an orginial???, <VBG>
Cindy:)


>From the keyboard of Albert:
>I have a Marc Chagall print that's original. Sure, he printed 
>hundreds of them, but it's still from his hand and I value it for 
>that. (Don't get all impressed; I paid like $15 for it 30 years ago.)
>
>Albert
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>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:53:58 1999
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From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: tutu selling
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:46:15 -0800
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>
>Way too cheap:)
>Do I hear 24,000.00 plus a dollar?? 
>Now what's that in the Canadain peso??
>I'll take 2 please....VGB.
>Cindy:)
>
>
>>Ain't the free market great?  Just ask Bill Gates, Donald Trump, etc.
>>
>>Ask and ye shall receive. Now where is that soiled TuTu. I'll sell it cheap
>>.......... $12,000 U.S. (less the IGGA discount of course). $1 for each time
>>I've had to repair my gnomon. Because nobody has sent me Bios for this
>>Saturday's posting (note the segway into the bios). If you want the TuTu
>>after Saturday it will be $12,001 U.S.
>>
>>
>>Patrick
>>Roses and Rainbows
>>
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>>
>>
>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:59:27 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
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Subject: Re: Pattern needed
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:53:30 -0800
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Organization: Maiden Concepts
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Wow, I like your site.
The clip art link is great.
I like your SG work also. I was wondering is the rooster in your garden
section is SG?  If so what kind of rod do you have it attached to?  I
live at the coast and never think farm, but that is really cute and I
would like to make one. I have a few rooster patterns, but usually just
skip over them.  I should think they would sell real good in Delaware,
since that is the blue hen state.
So, are you the lady wearing the Santa hat?  And is the other Santa hat
wearer going to be a after poor Patrick too?
I have that wardell pattern book.  They are nice, but don't quite hit it
for me.  I am not much of an artist.  Can't think it up for myself, but
know what I like when I see it.
Since the 70's are back.  I thought a few little ones would be good to
try at my spring craft show.  I always liked having one sitting on the
coffee table, but I was thinking of a little one hanging in a window.
Thank you for taking the time to look for me.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 14:09:27 1999
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From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:46:16 -0800
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>>since this is going out to bungi too... what so you guys think is the
best money transfer method? i figure i'd set up a seperate page else
where (geocities does'nt allow that kind of thing for free). right now
it's just the money thing that's messing me up.

---Mike Savad<<

I would think that a site offering stained glass for sale should have a wide
range of prices. Something like a $6,000.00 lamp and a $75.00 box on each
end of the offering scale.

Postal money orders are perhaps the best way to go. True it is an
inconvience for the sender but you are realitively sure of getting your
money. Credit cards are very expensive to set up accounts, the charge amount
is discounted and the charge may be cancelled. Not a good idea for the small
operator. Personal checks bounce and may be cancelled before they clear.
So..............go postal money orders and you can quickly ship without
waiting for a check or charge to clear.

You are right to be concerned about payment. There are a few people out
there that would like to get something for nothing. Don't give it to them!
Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Think glass, have class.

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 14:28:29 1999
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:10:07 +0000
Message-ID: <199902132003.PAA14238@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk

Simpler than that, actually. Cut a piece of glass, break it out, 
stroke the edge of one piece against the other like whetting a knive: 
stroke, stroke ... and you're done. Less than a second's work to 
knock the sharpness off the edge, grinder unnecessary.



> I thought they had some kind of file to smooth the edges a little. 
> 
> Dianne

> << 
>  Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building 
>  lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had 
>  any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing.
>  
>  Albert >>

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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:24:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb13.112443.0>
References: <<199902131730.MAA12061@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely
> > necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to
> shreds!
> 
> Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building
> lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had
> any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing.
> 
> Albert
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


but... would they have used a grinder if they had it back then? that's
the question. i say yes they would have, if it were invented and usable.
the lighting was dim, but that's all they may have had back then. 

for example right now i'd be using my holographic imaging system, to see
if an idea would work or not. it's such a common tool, not really
needed, but very useful. too bad it has'nt been invented yet, huh...
20-40 years from now people will be having a small argument about the
holographic units. and why the Lewis or Savad Studios did'nt use them. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 15:27:58 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:26:38 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb13.212638.0>
References: <<1999Feb13.141630.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Sparks, et. al,

I managed for several years to do copper foil work without a grinder. I
dulled the edges by wiping each glass edge against its off cut.  If
necessary to do more work on the piece, I used a small carborundum stone
to smooth the edges and make some gentle alterations to the shape.
Otherwise, I cut another piece.

Now, of course that I am producing more things and have less time to do
it in, I use a grinder. When I have to.  I'd rather groze.  (instead of
score?)

Steve

In message <1999Feb13.141630.0@?>, Witchdoc3@aol.com writes
>
>In a message dated 2/13/99 12:02:19 AM, dodgestudio@juno.com wrote:
>
>>As for grinders, you've got to take care not to become a "grinder junkie"
>>as we call them here.  This tool is great for the occasional fix but has
>>become a massive crutch.  Worse yet  some "evil glass teachers" or
>>perhaps ones who just don't know any better have portrayed this tool as a
>>"necessity" rather than a "nicety". 
>
>Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely
>necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to shreds!
>
>
>Sparks
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: dodgestudio@juno.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:48:39 EST
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In a message dated 2/12/99 9:02:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dodgestudio@juno.com writes:

<< evil glass teachers" or
 perhaps ones who just don't know any better have portrayed this tool as a
 "necessity" rather than a "nicety".  In the long run countless man hours
 are wasted playing with these "labor saving devices" that could be saved
 by just learning the craft properly. >>

While I certainly respect the abillity to cut glass perfectly with no
mechanical
aids... in those rare instances when I have been able to accomplish the feat, 
I've found that copper foil doesn't stick well to a clean cut,  so I find
myself lightly 
grinding the edge in any case.

Do you never have to use groziers either?  I rarely have a smooth edge after
grozing.

While I agree sometimes grinding is time wasted.   I  think teachers want
students to be able to have the satisfaction of a completed project 
with mimimal pain.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 18:22:19 1999
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Grinder vs glass cutter
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:38:55 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb13.73855.0>
References: <<199902132003.PAA14238@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I know I am beating a dead horse here, but...........
When thoses women made a poor cut, didn't they toss it and cut again?
They did not pay for the glass and they were not paying $10/sq.ft for
it.  Now I like yellow, pinks, and reds, and they tend to run in that
area(wholesale).
So can't we use the expense, we are saving by grinding down the glass,
for an excuss to use the grinder?
At least until we are better glass cutters?
I hear you already.  The cost of the grinder, the grinder heads, the
glass dust to our lungs, and the extra time it takes,costs more than
recutting a piece of glass.
But I still wonder!!
Shirley B
> >  Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building
> >  lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had
> >  any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing.
> >
> >  Albert >>
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 18:36:52 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:53:31 -0800
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I am adding this to the bumper sticker list!
 I'd rather groze.  (instead of score?)
Shirley B
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:07:44 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb14.0744.0>
References: <<1999Feb13.112443.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1999Feb13.112443.0@?>, M. Savad <esavad@home.net> writes
>Albert Lewis wrote:
>> 
>> > Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely
>> > necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to
>> shreds!
>> 
>> Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building
>> lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had
>> any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing.
>> 
>> Albert
>> ----
>
>but... would they have used a grinder if they had it back then? that's
>the question. i say yes they would have, if it were invented and usable.
>the lighting was dim, but that's all they may have had back then. 
>
>for example right now i'd be using my holographic imaging system, to see
>if an idea would work or not. it's such a common tool, not really
>needed, but very useful. too bad it has'nt been invented yet, huh...
>20-40 years from now people will be having a small argument about the
>holographic units. and why the Lewis or Savad Studios did'nt use them. 
>
>---Mike Savad
>
Mike,

Just because a machine is available doesn't make it better than another
older technique, machine, etc.  One of the questions to be asked is
whether the grinder is better or even quicker than the older method.
You will have seen Albert's description of preparing glass for foiling -
score, break, wipe the edges, foil.  This has to be quicker than score,
break, grind, wash, dry, then foil.  It is better because the score and
broken edge is much smoother than the ground edge, so it takes the foil
adhesive better and makes a more secure bond.

So, I'd answer that the Tiffany workers (concerned as they must have
been with piece rates for speed) would not choose to use the grinder
extensively.

It could be interesting for people to put their grinders away for the
next project and see how well they really can do without spending time
at the grinder.

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 18:51:44 1999
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: balloch@netbridge.net
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:13:13 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Feb14.01313.0>
References: <<36C6107B.7775@netbridge.net>>
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Well, if anybody chooses it, it should be mysterious.
Steve
In message <36C6107B.7775@netbridge.net>, Shirley Balloch
<balloch@netbridge.net> writes
>I am adding this to the bumper sticker list!
> I'd rather groze.  (instead of score?)
>Shirley B

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 18:58:02 1999
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:42:31 -0500
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Steve Richard wrote:
> 
> In message <1999Feb13.112443.0@?>, M. Savad <esavad@home.net> writes
> >Albert Lewis wrote:
> >>
> >> > Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely
> >> > necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to
> >> shreds!
> >>
> >> Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building
> >> lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had
> >> any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing.
> >>
> >> Albert
> >> ----
> >
> >but... would they have used a grinder if they had it back then? that's
> >the question. i say yes they would have, if it were invented and usable.
> >the lighting was dim, but that's all they may have had back then.
> >
> >for example right now i'd be using my holographic imaging system, to see
> >if an idea would work or not. it's such a common tool, not really
> >needed, but very useful. too bad it has'nt been invented yet, huh...
> >20-40 years from now people will be having a small argument about the
> >holographic units. and why the Lewis or Savad Studios did'nt use them.
> >
> >---Mike Savad
> >
> Mike,
> 
> Just because a machine is available doesn't make it better than another
> older technique, machine, etc.  One of the questions to be asked is
> whether the grinder is better or even quicker than the older method.
> You will have seen Albert's description of preparing glass for foiling -
> score, break, wipe the edges, foil.  This has to be quicker than score,
> break, grind, wash, dry, then foil.  It is better because the score and
> broken edge is much smoother than the ground edge, so it takes the foil
> adhesive better and makes a more secure bond.
> 
> So, I'd answer that the Tiffany workers (concerned as they must have
> been with piece rates for speed) would not choose to use the grinder
> extensively.
> 
> It could be interesting for people to put their grinders away for the
> next project and see how well they really can do without spending time
> at the grinder.
> 
> Steve
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk


it all depends on the point of view of the person who does work with it.
if someone works with large pieces or straight cuts, a grinder would'nt
even enter your mind. if you work with alot of smaller pieces or very
curvy pieces a grinder is a good idea. a few swipes with a stone may not
remove that little bit of glass, that makes the project grow. 

i wonder how many cuts the tiffany people had foiling the glass with a
few razor edges. if they did have a use of a grinder, it could have
meant lamps. with fingers that may have not hurt so much...  plus a fact
that the glass may have been alot softer, and a stone could have removed
alot of the sharpness. alot of my glass is alot harder...


basically thie thread (and everytime we have one), always winds up with
this: foilers say yes, leaders say no... on the average anyway.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
too and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 19:04:37 1999
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Sorry, but no mail today-at all-so I'm sending a test to see if I'm off
the list or if it's my email service.

Diane M.
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From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:51:06 -0800
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>>for example right now i'd be using my holographic imaging system, to see
if an idea would work or not. it's such a common tool, not really
needed, but very useful. too bad it has'nt been invented yet, huh...
20-40 years from now people will be having a small argument about the
holographic units. and why the Lewis or Savad Studios did'nt use them.

---Mike Savad<<

I've got the answer, "Savad at least had electricity in his studio and might
have gotten ahold of one of the early models. How else could he have done
sky city!" Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Think glass, have class.

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 19:57:26 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Another bumper sticker... for some
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:57:19 -0500
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One more for the list:

Stained glass is a grind.

;-)  Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 20:11:59 1999
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Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
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Oh, another bumper sticker....

Stained glass groze on you.

Yuck.

Best,

Dani Greer
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______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 20:45:15 1999
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:34:26 -0800
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I'm relatively new to things and did my first five projects (3 lead, 2 foil)
all without a grinder. I love doing leaded work (can't explain why, but I
like it better), and I finally went out and bought a grinder. I'm a real
perfectionist, and no matter how good the score, it seems like once in a
while there's a piece that causes everything to creep just a little. The
grinder makes bringing that piece back into line much quicker and easier,
and saves the expense of recutting.

I can see it both ways and I think beginners should be encouraged to work
without the grinder as a "safety net". On the other hand, when on the verge
of tears with a first project, an instructor with a grinder "up their
sleeve" can save the day.  To me, it's a matter of how much, how often, and
less is always better.

Julia Moseley
Kirkland, WA

P.S. Is there a way to NOT get the NG discussions? They flood my mailbox,
and unfortunately, it's not easy to set up a rule for NG... lots of words
END in "ng" like thinking, grinding, etc. Any ideas would be appreciated.
-----Original Message-----
From: M. Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools


>Steve Richard wrote:
>>
>> In message <1999Feb13.112443.0@?>, M. Savad <esavad@home.net> writes
>> >Albert Lewis wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's
absolutely
>> >> > necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to
>> >> shreds!
>> >>
>> >> Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building
>> >> lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had
>> >> any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing.
>> >>
>> >> Albert
>> >> ----
>> >
>> >but... would they have used a grinder if they had it back then? that's
>> >the question. i say yes they would have, if it were invented and usable.
>> >the lighting was dim, but that's all they may have had back then.
>> >
>> >for example right now i'd be using my holographic imaging system, to see
>> >if an idea would work or not. it's such a common tool, not really
>> >needed, but very useful. too bad it has'nt been invented yet, huh...
>> >20-40 years from now people will be having a small argument about the
>> >holographic units. and why the Lewis or Savad Studios did'nt use them.
>> >
>> >---Mike Savad
>> >
>> Mike,
>>
>> Just because a machine is available doesn't make it better than another
>> older technique, machine, etc.  One of the questions to be asked is
>> whether the grinder is better or even quicker than the older method.
>> You will have seen Albert's description of preparing glass for foiling -
>> score, break, wipe the edges, foil.  This has to be quicker than score,
>> break, grind, wash, dry, then foil.  It is better because the score and
>> broken edge is much smoother than the ground edge, so it takes the foil
>> adhesive better and makes a more secure bond.
>>
>> So, I'd answer that the Tiffany workers (concerned as they must have
>> been with piece rates for speed) would not choose to use the grinder
>> extensively.
>>
>> It could be interesting for people to put their grinders away for the
>> next project and see how well they really can do without spending time
>> at the grinder.
>>
>> Steve
>> --
>> Steve Richard
>> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
>> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
>
>
>it all depends on the point of view of the person who does work with it.
>if someone works with large pieces or straight cuts, a grinder would'nt
>even enter your mind. if you work with alot of smaller pieces or very
>curvy pieces a grinder is a good idea. a few swipes with a stone may not
>remove that little bit of glass, that makes the project grow.
>
>i wonder how many cuts the tiffany people had foiling the glass with a
>few razor edges. if they did have a use of a grinder, it could have
>meant lamps. with fingers that may have not hurt so much...  plus a fact
>that the glass may have been alot softer, and a stone could have removed
>alot of the sharpness. alot of my glass is alot harder...
>
>
>basically thie thread (and everytime we have one), always winds up with
>this: foilers say yes, leaders say no... on the average anyway.
>
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>--
>Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance
>Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification
>too and A Look at Sky City
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 20:59:55 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:56:03 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb13.15563.0>
References: <<1999Feb13.144231.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Well,  I for one will be keeping my grinder!

After breaking a peice or two getting an inside curve out, The last
think I want to do is lose it again by grozing.  I am not the greatest
grozer.  

I use my carborundum? file to to take off the little razor edges, but if
there is a rough spot from having to take several scores and breaks to
get my peice, I use my grinder.  
I want my glass to fit tight.  Doesnt take but even a tiny spot to knock
it all off.  If I groze it, it would take too much off.  I can take a
bit off that is imperceptable to the eye with my grinder, and have it
fit just right.  Or I can leave it by not grinding and have a gap
somewhere else because is the fit is off.  

Grinding also protects my fingers, I *still* have a tendency to rub my
finger over the edges of my glass.  It is a sick obcession.  I cant seem
to stop.  I have almost needed stitches due to this.  Luckily glass cuts
are so clean, they come together and heal pretty quickly.

T Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 21:14:04 1999
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: HiimLaura@aol.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: mirror sealant
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:38:51 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1999Feb13.113851.0>
References: <<1999Feb13.15146.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Laura:  In addition to the mirror edge sealant, I use clear fingernail
polish on the edges of the mirror before I foil it.  So are this seems to
have prevent the 'black rot' caused by the flux/corrosion.  Peggy

On Sat, 13 Feb 1999 HiimLaura@aol.com wrote:

> 
> Hello all:
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas concerning the protection of mirror
> bottoms (boxes, candle shelters, etc.). I use the aerosol mirror edge sealant
> after cutting and grinding, but once in a while I still get a small spot where
> the silver will seperate from the mirror glass. Is there anything else I could
> apply to the mirror back to prevent this peeling? Any advice would be
> appreciated.
> 
> Laura P
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> 

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 21:32:06 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Bob E Duchesneau <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:06:49 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Feb13.16649.0>
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Precedence: bulk

> When S of Tulsa gets on line I will do a far better job. Bob
> 
I cant imagine what I would even think of attemting at this point in
time that would cost anywhere near $1000!  

Ok...Bob, you've seen a good deal of my stuff that is pretty
representational.  You also know how I charge.

In your opinion..am I off?  Should I charge less, more?

S *in* not of* Tulsa ;o)
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 21:46:54 1999
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X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686
From: L Nelson <t6686@netusa1.net>
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:24:06 -0800
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I know I'm new to this but when I took a class we were not told about danger
in glass dust??
and I was told there was no way to do stained glass with out a grinder and I
wish I didn't but I use my grinder WAY to much... but my teacher kinda taught
us to use it if we didn't cut pc right..

Shirley Balloch wrote:

> I know I am beating a dead horse here, but...........
> When thoses women made a poor cut, didn't they toss it and cut again?
> They did not pay for the glass and they were not paying $10/sq.ft for
> it.  Now I like yellow, pinks, and reds, and they tend to run in that
> area(wholesale).
> So can't we use the expense, we are saving by grinding down the glass,
> for an excuss to use the grinder?
> At least until we are better glass cutters?
> I hear you already.  The cost of the grinder, the grinder heads, the
> glass dust to our lungs, and the extra time it takes,costs more than
> recutting a piece of glass.
> But I still wonder!!
> Shirley B
> > >  Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building
> > >  lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had
> > >  any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing.
> > >
> > >  Albert >>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 22:00:56 1999
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From: L Nelson <t6686@netusa1.net>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:32:10 -0800
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I like it...
Kinda cute..Laura

Dani Greer wrote:

> Oh, another bumper sticker....
>
> Stained glass groze on you.
>
> Yuck.
>
> Best,
>
> Dani Greer
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 22:36:05 1999
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From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------09FD9F07A93353FA18F101EB"
Subject: Re: Shisha mirrors
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:08:00 -0800
Message-ID: <1999Feb13.1380.0>
References: <<1999Feb13.9311.0>>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk


--------------09FD9F07A93353FA18F101EB
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dani Greer wrote:

> Hi Pam,
>
> I think you can get those at any bead shop... you mean those =
>
> little round mirrors that are embroidered into East Indian clothing,
> right??

Well actually I'm not sure, yes and no :) Do you remember that awesome
site where that fabo artist used mirrors in mosaics? We had a thread
going awhile ago on this subject.
http://www.erols.com/masont/

I've been there a few times and I'm wondering how the glass is used. It
looks as if the glass work has to be cut in order to form the mosaic
designs. I know there are craft mirrors as some call them. But I sure
don't think those are used here. So back to this fabo guy and this site
again I don't think we ever did figure out how he did this. Any idea's
Dani? I'm almost tempted to e-mail him personally and ask for goodness
sake. It really is incredible how this looks in my opinion. The light is
reflected, it's not a clear glass type of medium.

A little history on shisha mirrors

Shisha mirror's are used in embroidery in Pakistan, Afghanistan and
India. The first
shisha mirrors were actually chips of mica, and silvery insect wings,
but in the early
16th century, the first small mirrors were manufactured from sand, lime
and soda in
small furnaces. They were called shisha, the Hindustani word for "glass"
or "mirror."

Now there are shisha mirrors that are used for glass work, the only
suppliers are in the U.K. etc. that I could find. I don't think the
embroidery mirrors are the same but I may be wrong.

I'm totally perplexed.

Pam




*********************************

Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

Moswood Mountain Limited
http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1


--------------09FD9F07A93353FA18F101EB
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
<I>Dani Greer wrote:</I>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><I>Hi Pam,</I><I></I>

<P><I>I think you can get those at any bead shop... you mean those =</I><I></I>

<P><I>little round mirrors that are embroidered into East Indian clothing,</I>
<BR><I>right??</I></BLOCKQUOTE>


<P>Well actually I'm not sure, yes and no :) Do you remember that awesome
site where that fabo artist used mirrors in mosaics? We had a thread going
awhile ago on this subject.
<BR><A HREF="http://www.erols.com/masont/">http://www.erols.com/masont/</A>

<P>I've been there a few times and I'm wondering how the glass is used.
It looks as if the glass work has to be cut in order to form the mosaic
designs. I know there are craft mirrors as some call them. But I sure don't
think those are used here. So back to this fabo guy and this site again
I don't think we ever did figure out how he did this. Any idea's Dani?
I'm almost tempted to e-mail him personally and ask for goodness sake.
It really is incredible how this looks in my opinion. The light is reflected,
it's not a clear glass type of medium.

<P>A little history on shisha mirrors

<P>Shisha mirror's are used in embroidery in Pakistan, Afghanistan and
India. The first
<BR>shisha mirrors were actually chips of mica, and silvery insect wings,
but in the early
<BR>16th century, the first small mirrors were manufactured from sand,
lime and soda in
<BR>small furnaces. They were called shisha, the Hindustani word for "glass"
or "mirror."

<P>Now there are shisha mirrors that are used for glass work, the only
suppliers are in the U.K. etc. that I could find. I don't think the embroidery
mirrors are the same but I may be wrong.

<P>I'm totally perplexed.

<P>Pam
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>*********************************

<P>Pamela Burns-Tappan
<BR>Executive Director
<BR>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists">http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists</A>

<P>Moswood Mountain Limited
<BR><A HREF="http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited">http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited</A>
<BR><A HREF="http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1">http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1</A>
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------09FD9F07A93353FA18F101EB--

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 23:06:47 1999
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg
From: "Vincent LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Another bumper sticker... for some
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:34:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Feb13.193459.0>
Precedence: bulk

How about:

"Once you learn how to Score, Grinding and Grozing comes easy." 

Or:

Grozing in the Glass.

Ciao

Vic
-----Original Message-----
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 11:11 PM
Subject: Another bumper sticker... for some


>One more for the list:
>
>Stained glass is a grind.
>
>;-)  Dani Greer
>----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 01:45:20 1999
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing, and Dani's new computer
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 03:30:07 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

2/13/99 2:46 PM Cindy Pesonen cpesonen@uniserve.com

Cindy, some very good points. Thanks for sharing them with us!
Suzanne

>
>PS...here's some notes I've collected from a seminar:
>
>-don't aim for height aim for distance.
>
>-when starting out keep the prices for you work below other artist prices
>for the same medium and size.
>
>-constantly seek ways of lowering the costs of producing and selling your
>work without compromising the quality...eg: bulk buying and doing your own
>framing.
>
>-constantly seeks ways of improving the quality and presentation of your
>work and then inform dealers and clients of these improvements.
>
>-charge 10% to 30% more for specific commissions.
>
>-be constantly observant of what sells- at what prices. these are
>indications of your clients "comfort zone".
>
>-vary the sizes, mediums, and dgrees of detail in your work. this will allow
>for  different price levels in your work.
>
>-keep your "ego" in check. moving your prices up too quickly or higher than
>the market will bear, can slow or even stop your career- dead in it's tracks.
>
>-beware of family and friends who know little of the art market- pressuring
>you to raise your prices. they are well-meaning and might make you feel
>good, but you could end up feeling- poor.
>
>-don't raise your prices because you see other artists doing so. watch
>carefully to see if their work is really selling or whether it's just
>gathering dust.
>
>-be flexible. not all of your work will be masterpieces. understand this and
>price your work accordingly.
>
>-be willing and ready to negotiate. don't be offended by people who may want
>to "wheel and deal". by doing so they are telling you they like and want
>your work.
>
>-decide whether you want a fast nickel or a slow dime. ask yourself, do I
>want a lot of my over priced work representing my time, effort and expenses
>sitting in storage and gathering dust or do I want to have my resonably
>priced work in the possession of people who truely admire, desire and can
>afford it. while i have their money to continue my Art, my life and the
>lives of my family!!!
>
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>
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:27:40 +0000
Message-ID: <199902140920.EAA22236@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> I know I am beating a dead horse here, but...........
> When thoses women made a poor cut, didn't they toss it and cut again?
> They did not pay for the glass and they were not paying $10/sq.ft for
> it. 

If Louis Tiffany was anything, he was a businessman first and 
foremost. Okay, he was an artist, too, and quite a good painter, but 
he excelled at business. The glass was manufacturered to his 
specifications by outfits he had "locked down" contractually, and 
while none of the glass would have cost $10/ft2 at the time (nothing 
was as expensive then as now), it would have been a considerable 
expense. Waste would have meant lost profits. A poor cutter wouldn't 
have lasted as an employee, most certainly not a female employee.

> So can't we use the expense, we are saving by grinding down the glass,
> for an excuss to use the grinder?
> At least until we are better glass cutters?

You see, that's the thing. Glass teachers these days who have their 
students learn to cut glass with a grinder close at hand are actually 
crippling their students in a way. It's like teaching a child to walk 
by insisting they use a walker like an 80-year-old. They'd never 
learn to walk correctly. Personally, I'd say that nobody learning to 
work with stained glass should be allowed to use a grinder until 
they'd learned to cut confidently and accurately most of the time.

Using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person; you're just not 
allowing yourself to reach the level of technical ability that would 
mark you as a good craftsman.

My opinion, natch.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 03:48:20 1999
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:04:59 -0000
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Hello

Ok if we aren't going to slam peoples work or pricing then let's slam their
techniques! BG

I don't think anybody would deny that there people in this world who are
better at cutting glass that others - they must be they tell us so! Ok then
that gives us all something to aspire to.

I admire all skilled people. No skills are easily won and they are priceless
to those who have them and a wonder to observe. We all venerate
craftsmanship!

We should all remember that a grinder is an enabling tool. It allows people
to make things in stained glass without having to acquire the cutting skills
first. I don't think there is anything wrong with that in this urgent age.

I began by grozing from the start. My cutting was appalling. Then I got a
grinder so I groze then ground to shape. As my skills improved I gave up
nearly!) grozing and ground only. Now I ALWAYS grind lightly (at least!)
just so that I can handle and foil the piece with confidence.

I will not be admonished for using a work pattern that suits me!

So all you non grinders can go around patting your selves and your friends
on the back and feeling holier than everybody else if it makes you happy -
you deserve it.

All you grinders need feel no remorse. You are good guys as well! Your
skills will come if you work at them but you have no reason to feel humbled
in the presence of all this greatness!

Anyway - it's results that matter - who cares how you make it - if it's
beautiful it's beautiful!

:o)


BtB

PS I don't think the LCT factory would have used a grinder - ever! I think
they would have used one of these high pressure water cutter thingies if
they had been available!

PPS On second thoughts maybe LCT would have used a completely automated
assembly plant - if they had been available. The only thing he might have
resisted would have been automatic colour selection (for a while at least!)











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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 05:40:15 1999
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Don't you think if the even  HAD grinders BACK THEN they would have used them?
No doubt they hand filed everything.

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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter
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> I know I am beating a dead horse here, but...........
> When thoses women made a poor cut, didn't they toss it and cut again?
> They did not pay for the glass and they were not paying $10/sq.ft for
> it. 

If Louis Tiffany was anything, he was a businessman first and 
foremost. Okay, he was an artist, too, and quite a good painter, but 
he excelled at business. The glass was manufacturered to his 
specifications by outfits he had "locked down" contractually, and 
while none of the glass would have cost $10/ft2 at the time (nothing 
was as expensive then as now), it would have been a considerable 
expense. Waste would have meant lost profits. A poor cutter wouldn't 
have lasted as an employee, most certainly not a female employee.

> So can't we use the expense, we are saving by grinding down the glass,
> for an excuss to use the grinder?
> At least until we are better glass cutters?

You see, that's the thing. Glass teachers these days who have their 
students learn to cut glass with a grinder close at hand are actually 
crippling their students in a way. It's like teaching a child to walk 
by insisting they use a walker like an 80-year-old. They'd never 
learn to walk correctly. Personally, I'd say that nobody learning to 
work with stained glass should be allowed to use a grinder until 
they'd learned to cut confidently and accurately most of the time.

Using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person; you're just not 
allowing yourself to reach the level of technical ability that would 
mark you as a good craftsman.

My opinion, natch.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 07:12:39 1999
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter
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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:50:29 +0000
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> Don't you think if the even  HAD grinders BACK THEN they would have used them?
> No doubt they hand filed everything.


Nope, don't think so. They just cut the glass correctly the first 
time. <smile>

A
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 08:16:18 1999
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Yeah!

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 09:50:43 1999
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Subject: Re: mirror sealant
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:05:39 EST
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Hi Laura,
I must agree with Peggy about using the clear nail polish (lacquer) on the
edges of the mirror.  I also use the nail polish on the very inside and
outside edge of the mirror where it may have chipped a bit.  I believe it is
the chipping that may have caused your intermittant problem.  Also, when you
spray the sealant, sometimes, you do not get the sides of the mirror.  I have
never had black rot after doing both steps.  The time it takes to insure an
unspoiled mirror is well worth the cost of the extra time to me.
Lenore 
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 10:51:32 1999
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At 04:27 14/02/99 +0000, Albert wrote:

>You see, that's the thing. Glass teachers these days who have their 
>students learn to cut glass with a grinder close at hand are actually 
>crippling their students in a way. It's like teaching a child to walk 
>by insisting they use a walker like an 80-year-old. They'd never 
>learn to walk correctly. Personally, I'd say that nobody learning to 
>work with stained glass should be allowed to use a grinder until 
>they'd learned to cut confidently and accurately most of the time.
>
>Using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person; you're just not 
>allowing yourself to reach the level of technical ability that would 
>mark you as a good craftsman.
>
>My opinion, natch.

Just our philosophy too Albert.  We try to instill some accuracy into our
students before even letting them loose on our grinders.  Not because we are
mean or trying to hold them back but to make them learn to cut better.  What
is the point of them paying us to teach them if we withold the extra time it
takes to impart accuracy?  After all anyone can teach themselves to cut
glass to shape with a grinder and bandsaw at their elbow.
There is a studio/retail shop a few miles away from us who insist that their
students should buy a grinder after a couple of lessons as if it is one of
the basic tools needed to get started.  It makes teaching much easier for
their staff who have only a rudimentary grasp of cutting techniques themselves.
It also means that their students on the whole have no idea how to approach
cutting a difficult curve - and in effect dont try to be accurate as they
have been taught that it is normal to grind anything but a shallow easy curve.
And of course the business sells lots of grinders which is good for their
cash flow!

We have never ground all the edges on copper foiled work just to help the
foil stick and havent the time to waste on the extra washing and drying of
the glass that others have mentioned, but have had no problem with our foil
- we even use old foil that has been out of the packet for several years
without problems.  Must be the bracing sea air of sunny Bournemouth!

Elizabeth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 11:52:05 1999
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Advances are made in tools and, well just about everything, because we fill
a need.  If molding cutters and shapers weren't invented we would still be
whittling molding.  50 years ago the attempts to do open heart surgery were
doomed to failure.  The know how and tools were not available.

I do, teach and sell a lot of stained glass, both finished goods and parts.
I use and teach with all the tools available to me.  My students can work as
they want, but they learn how to use grinders, saws, came stretchers, Morton
system, etc.  They also learn that if their work doesn't make them happy
that they should scrap it.  They should also sign their work because they're
proud of it.

I defy anyone to tell by examining a finished piece if a grinder was or
wasn't used.  I am no purist; but I love good work.

Arnold

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 12:45:06 1999
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> the basic tools needed to get started.  It makes teaching much easier for
> their staff who have only a rudimentary grasp of cutting techniques themselves.
<snip>
> And of course the business sells lots of grinders which is good for their
> cash flow!

Oops! The retailers will be out in force now, saying that we're 
"beating them up," or "not being nice" to them. But it's true here in 
the States (and apparently in the UK, as well) that many who open 
retail shops have only a rudimentary knowledge and skill set 
themselves. They learned the grinder "shortcut," so that's all they 
can teach. There's a place for a grinder, but it should be a 
seldom-used piece of equipment if one's interested in becoming 
a "skilled craftsperson" in the usual sense of the words.

"Cash flow" drives lots of different kinds of businesses, but it 
doesn't necessarily drive quality at the same time.

My humble opinion, of course. Others will beg to differ, I know.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 13:13:13 1999
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If anyone is interested, you can see my new lead project at
http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/lead.html
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 13:20:16 1999
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Subject: Re: Shisha mirrors
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Honestly, I am not on their payroll, but National Artcraft has  1/2"
round and 1/2" square mirrors if that helps.. 5 packs of 10 for $0.70
per 5 pack..


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Hi Pam,

I think you can get those at any bead shop... you mean those =

little round mirrors that are embroidered into East Indian clothing,
right??

Best,

Dani Greer
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Did not know that.  Thank you Albert, and tis a small world, but would
not want to paint it.. hehehe
Gloria


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Published by our own Albert of Art in Architecture Press!  Small
world, no?!

Best,

Dani Greer

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 14:04:59 1999
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you all raise an interesting dilemma. My problem is that I'd rather not
grind as much as I do, but am not very proficient at cutting. Anybody
have any tips for more accurate cutting? Thanks,

Darlene
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Subject: Fwd: Grinder vs glass cutter
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:45:01 EST
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In a message dated 2/14/99 1:42:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, JJKIRBY writes:

<< << Using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person; you're just not 
  allowing yourself to reach the level of technical ability that would 
  mark you as a good craftsman. >>
 
 The Luddites have won me over, I've fired up my barbeque and put 
 my "irons in the fire" - having thrown out my Weller as well as all that
 other stuff.
 
 Interesting concept - using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person,
 just less of a "good craftsman".  
 
 In fact, the entire craft is too dependent on tools entirely, I saw a show 
 where the early cavemen apparently chewed pigment and spit it on the
 walls of the caves - there's some craftsmanship!
 
 Craftspeople of the world unite!  Throw off your grinders, and irons, and
saws! >>


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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
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To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net
Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:42:53 EST
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<< Using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person; you're just not 
 allowing yourself to reach the level of technical ability that would 
 mark you as a good craftsman. >>

The Luddites have won me over, I've fired up my barbeque and put 
my "irons in the fire" - having thrown out my Weller as well as all that
other stuff.

Interesting concept - using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person,
just less of a "good craftsman".  

In fact, the entire craft is too dependent on tools entirely, I saw a show 
where the early cavemen apparently chewed pigment and spit it on the
walls of the caves - there's some craftsmanship!

Craftspeople of the world unite!  Throw off your grinders, and irons, and
saws!

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 16:12:13 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: balloch@netbridge.net
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Subject: Re: Bumper stickers so far Revised
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:59:04 -0800
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References: <<36C61046.1127@netbridge.net>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
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Shirley Balloch wrote:
> 
> Shirley Balloch wrote:
> >
> > Shirley Balloch wrote:
> > >
> > > Shirley Balloch wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You bet your sweet glass...
> > > > > A Glass of It's Own
> > > > > Get Glassed!
> > > > > Glassified
> > > > > "I'd rather be scoring"
> > > > > Torched.
> > > > >  "snaps under pressure"
> > > > > > "on the cutting edge"
> > > > > > "grinds with the best of 'em"
> > > > > > "%$&#, foiled again!"
> > > > > "Leaded be"
> > > > > ... and leaded be Light.
> > > > > And God saw it was good.
> > > > > Curses, Foiled again.
> > > > > "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!"
> > > > >
> > > > > Honk if you love stained glass"
> > > > > "If you seek beauty, work with stained glass"
> > > > > "Visualize....stained glass"
> > > > > My windows can beat your windows"
> > > > >            /\                            _________________
> > > > >                   /    \
> > > > > \                            /
> > > > >                 /        \                         \   Stained Glass  /
> > > > >               / Beauty \                        \         on          /
> > > > >             /      on      \                        \     Board      /
> > > > >           /      Board    \                         \                /
> > > > >          /____________\                         \_______/
> > > > > "View the world through stained glass"
> > > > > "glassers know the score."
> > > > >  "glassers know how to score."
> > > > >
> > > > > "Get your Glass in Gear!"
> > > > >
> > > > > "Lead, Foil, or get out of the way!"
> > > > >
> > > > > "My other car is a Kiln"
> > > > >
> > > > > "Don't laugh, I spend my $$$ on Glass."
> > > > >
> > > > > "Aw flux, foiled again!"
> > > > >
> > > > > "To bead, or not to bead"  (Shakespeare)
> > > > >
> > > > > "Keep your glass to the grindstone"
> > > > >
> > > > > "Oh, Frit...blasted again!"
> > > > >
> > > > > "Use Came, or Foil, Then Solder"  (Caesar said it best! I came, I saw..
> > > > > well
> > > > > you know)
> > > > >
> > > > > "Working my Glass Off!"  (has a double meaning)
> > > > >
> > > > > "You have got to be fidding?"  (Now I am killing myself!!!  LOL)
> > > > >
> > > > > "Grozing in the Glass"  song - (Grazing in the grass)
> > > > >
> > > > > "Got Glass?"  (and we could all have little glass moustaches)
> > > > >
> > > > > "Super cooled liquid manipulator"  (okay, a little on the egghead side)
> > > > >
> > > > > "Heart of Glass"  (Blondie's back you know?)
> > > > >
> > > > >  GIVE BLOOD
> > > > >         become a stained-glass artist
> > > > > Stained Glass Artists - a cut above the rest.
> > > > > The Pane ........ ohhhhh the Pane.
> > > > > "Life is a multicolored Pane."
> > > > >
> > > > > "Life is a Pane in the Glass"
> > > > >
> > > > > "I look at life thru multicolored glasses"
> > > > >
> > > > > "If the pieces fit.....solder them!"
> > > > I'd rather be scoring  ..... than snoring!
> > > I'd rather be leading
> > >  If Stained Glass was cheap and easy, everybody would be doing it!!
> > "lead, foil, or get the hell out of the way!"
> > "> "Lead, follow, or get the h*ll out of the way!"
>  I'd rather groze.  (instead of score?)
>  If Stained Glass was cheap and easy, everybody would be doing it!!
>  "The Brit Chick Rules".
>  I'd rather groze.  (instead of score?)
> Stained glass is a grind.
Stained glass groze on you.
Geez...I'd rather score (or get lucky) anyday!!
"Once you learn how to Score, Grinding and Grozing comes easy." 
Grozing in the Glass.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 16:42:56 1999
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From: stainglasborzoi@webtv.net (GLORIA DRAG)
To: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand), glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: My lead restoration project
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NIce work.   I never did a restoration., Thanks  for sharing, Gloria


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From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
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Subject: My lead restoration project
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:53:45 -0800 (PST)
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If anyone is interested, you can see my new lead project at
http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/lead.html
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 17:13:19 1999
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding
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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:17:16 +0000
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> you all raise an interesting dilemma. My problem is that I'd rather not
> grind as much as I do, but am not very proficient at cutting. Anybody
> have any tips for more accurate cutting?

The same way you get to Carnegie Hall. <smile> Practice, practice, 
practice.

Albert
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Subject: RE: Glenna's restoration project
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:15:06 EST
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Glenna: what an amazing transformation!  You made something very lovely out of
a mess.  The proper aging will do it every time!  Kathi from Wisconsin
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 17:43:49 1999
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From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: JJKIRBY@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:26:46 -0500
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JJKIRBY writes:
>
>
>While I certainly respect the abillity to cut glass perfectly with no
mechanical
>aids... in those rare instances when I have been able to accomplish  the
feat, 
>I've found that copper foil doesn't stick well to a clean cut,  so I 
find myself lightly 
>grinding the edge in any case.

	Copper foil will stick fine to a clean cut but not to DIRTY GLASS.  Try
just dipping your well cut pieces in plain water and towel drying them
and I'll bet that problem would be solved.
>
>Do you never have to use groziers either?  I rarely have a smooth edge 
>after
>grozing.
>
>While I agree sometimes grinding is time wasted.   I  think teachers 
>want students to be able to have the satisfaction of a completed project

>with mimimal pain.

	Don't get me wrong.  I never said that I am against the use of grinders.
 I allow my students to use grinders in class but they must use it only
when necessary, as an easy alternative to a grozing plier.
I've had many students take my class that had been instructed elsewhere
that the proper stained glass technique involves intentionally cutting
every piece of glass too large or with no allowance for foil, then
grinding each piece down to size.  This is almost as absurd as a
carpenter replacing his saw with a belt sander.
	I start every beginner class by making a small panel and explaining all
the techniques used along the way.  Just to prove the point I never use
the grinder on this project but always demonstrate the use of the grinder
on scrap as an alternative to grozing.
	The BIG problem all begins because the beginner is allowed by this
flawed technique of OVER GRINDING to produce a product that is
deceptively good.  Once having made a nice looking product, the thought
of the next not being as good or better is unbearable.  Sure they'd like
to try cutting the glass better but the fear that it will come out too
small and the solder lines will be fat or uneven is overwhelming.  Almost
from the first project they're hooked!
	I tell my students that there is no shame in making an imperfect piece. 
"Send it off to your relatives in California.  They'll LOVE it and you
won't have to look at it.  Each piece will be better than the last and
you'll quickly learn to do it better." 
	Currently there has been a lot of discussion about the prices on that
lady's web site.   Someone pointed out the hourly rate, calculated  by
dividing the price by her claimed hours,  result in wages  that are not
beyond reason, something like $25.00/ hour.  This may be so, but taking
that long to make those products IS WAY beyond reason.  If that is the
case the client is being asked to pay extra for inexperience and flawed
technique. Perhaps another element in the  price is a few nice new
grinder heads per panel?

Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 17:58:03 1999
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From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Glenna Rand" <gjr@daver.bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: My lead restoration project
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:29:31 -0800
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Glenna writes:
>>If anyone is interested, you can see my new lead project at
http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/lead.html<<

Restoration? Hell, I call that post demolation salvation. It is much harder
to restore a window that is missing areas of glass because the new glass
must be cut to fit with the existing glass. In this case I would have
charged more to repair the window than to make a brand new one of the same
pattern because the skill and labor would have been more.

Did you brush up that nice black patina or what? Looks great. Bob


Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Think glass, have class.

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 17:59:04 1999
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Hi,  either it's real quiet here or I've been cut off.


Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 19:12:25 1999
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: tiime/cost of finished product
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:17:07 -0800
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I have over the years (see archives) ALWAYS advocated keeping time of how
long a "project" takes. A simple analog clock and a on/off switch works
fine.
I know how many square feet I used to make a shade, solder, foil, filigree
and or hardware, jewels and so on.
Some of my shades may only use 2 or a fraction more sq. feet of glass and
sell for ONLY $2,200 (without base)....That is only a $1,000 or so per
square foot....A VERY POOR example of a like shade from elsewhere may sell
for $199.00, and should that influence my pricing.......I think
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!
No easy answer to pricing, some work only to stay busy, others  to replace
material, some for FAMILY (UGH!), some guess at a price, some for the
privilege to be exploited, and a few who do it as a profession. I do other
things for free but NOT GLASS! ( with the exception of occasional and
selected "net advice). I volunteer at 2 marine facilities (handle and feed
and work with 6 or 7 octopuses) , assist friends with FREE investing advice,
both "net" and broker type.
The old saw "if you have to ask how much it costs. you cannot afford
it".....hopefully reflects my clients.
later, H



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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:24:40 -0500
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Albert,  you're right....But I'll take the telephone over smoke signals any
time,,,

Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter


>
>> the basic tools needed to get started.  It makes teaching much easier for
>> their staff who have only a rudimentary grasp of cutting techniques
themselves.
><snip>
>> And of course the business sells lots of grinders which is good for their
>> cash flow!
>
>Oops! The retailers will be out in force now, saying that we're
>"beating them up," or "not being nice" to them. But it's true here in
>the States (and apparently in the UK, as well) that many who open
>retail shops have only a rudimentary knowledge and skill set
>themselves. They learned the grinder "shortcut," so that's all they
>can teach. There's a place for a grinder, but it should be a
>seldom-used piece of equipment if one's interested in becoming
>a "skilled craftsperson" in the usual sense of the words.
>
>"Cash flow" drives lots of different kinds of businesses, but it
>doesn't necessarily drive quality at the same time.
>
>My humble opinion, of course. Others will beg to differ, I know.
>
>Albert
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>

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To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>,
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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:33:20 -0500
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Like geting into Carnagie Hall....You must practice, and practice and
practice.  You can do it.

Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: Darlene Hendler <mb.sympatico.ca@mb.sympatico.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 5:28 PM
Subject: cutting vs. grinding


>you all raise an interesting dilemma. My problem is that I'd rather not
>grind as much as I do, but am not very proficient at cutting. Anybody
>have any tips for more accurate cutting? Thanks,
>
>Darlene
>----
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>
>

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From: "Evelyn C Mason" <ABBIE23875@prodigy.net>
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Subject: wow!
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:43:28 -0500
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I bet she's great at jigsaw puzzles!

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 20:50:50 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:56:56 -0500
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Well, I for one think that *how something is made does count... if
the end result was all that mattered, then stained glass overlay
ought to replace *Real stained glass.

But, Brian makes a good point.  If you wanna buy a grinder, buy
one.  If you wanna buy ten grinders, do that too, you'll be making
lots of retailers happy.  Buy some saws while you're at it.  But,
don't every apply for a job at my studio... you won't get the job.
Just my pompous opinion, of course!

Best regards,

Dani Greer (who could use a couple of apprentices right now.... =

anybody out there who can cut glass and doesn't have a grinder?)
www.igga.org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 23:01:15 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Glenna's restoration
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:08:36 -0500
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Marvelous work, Glenna.  I'm sure your neighbors will be =

thrilled to tears not only by your kindness, but by the end result!

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 00:02:35 1999
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From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:13:26 -0500
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>Like geting into Carnagie Hall....You must practice, and practice and
>practice.  You can do it.

While you are correct that practice is going to improve your skills at
almost anything and is very important....it can also aggrevate problems if
you are practicing the wrong techiques....and how are newbies to know the
differnace?

I think it would be more helpful to newbies on the list if someone would be
willing to few glass cutting techinques that have proved useful rather than
telling us to just go do it....I'm sure we would if we knew how in the first
place.   I myself will go down to my work bench, and even if I do not feel
like working on a project at the moument, will play with some scrap glass
just to see what I can do...but a few hints certainly wouldn't hurt my
pride.

Soraya



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From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 01:26:25 1999
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From: "Bob E Duchesneau" <BOBDU@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:41:18 -0800
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>>> you all raise an interesting dilemma. My problem is that I'd rather not
> grind as much as I do, but am not very proficient at cutting. Anybody
> have any tips for more accurate cutting?

The same way you get to Carnegie Hall. <smile> Practice, practice,
practice.<<

Here is a good way to practice:

1. Get some scrap or low cost glass that is at least six inches or so
square,
2. Have your cutting table at a comfortable cutting height with good
lighting,
3. Take a magic marker and draw a gently waving line on the glass about
1/16" wide,
4. Score the glass on the very edge of one side of the line using enough
pressure to hear the cutter but not so much as to have the cutter screech,
try for even pressure throughout the score,
5. Break the score with runners, breakers or by hand,
6. Examine the cut edges to see if they are straight, have only light even
marks from the cutter and were cut at the very edge of the marker line,
7. Repeat the above exercise until you have it down to perfection,
8. Stop after 20 minutes and try again in not less than two hours.

At any rate that is what I did. After a while it comes easy. Bob

Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Think glass, have class.

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 04:04:44 1999
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Illuminated stepping stones
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:57:40 -0600
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Shirley, Pam...etc....

This is the info they give on the ebay page.
>   These super strength light transfer polymers are durable.They can 
>      withstand
>      the extremes of teperatures from desert to northern winters,     >      resist garden chemicals and can support 300lbs of
>      direct weight. Can be installed in any existing 12 volt lighting >       system in minutes. They are made by "Advanced
>      Products Development Co." P.O. Box5835 Pasadena,CA. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=65298545

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 06:47:30 1999
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:22:35 +0000
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> The same way you get to Carnegie Hall. <smile> Practice, practice,
> practice.<<
> 
> Here is a good way to practice:

Bob, your suggestions were much better than mine. By the way, I woke 
up in the middle of the night thinking my attitude here might not be 
the best ... or a least misperceived.  I'm not sneering at those who 
use grinders, not at all. I am trying to encourage everyone and 
anyone to increase their skills, to always become better at 
glassworking than they now are. My heart's in the right place; I woke 
up worried because I thought I might have hurt some feelings. If I 
did, my apologies.

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 06:57:46 1999
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>, "Everyone" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:35:15 -0000
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Dani

I'm stunned that you can't tell the difference between between stained glass
overlay and real stained glass - I sure can! VBG

I was of course refering to the method not materials as I think you
understand perfectly!

You are an excellent craftsperson and your opinion is much respected - I
have never thought of you as pompous. Like all highly skilled people you may
be (just occasionally)  a little impatient with your lessers perhaps.  I for
one look to people like you to sort me out on method and technique. I was
very interested to read what you said about zinc - I has made me rethink my
use of it!

I am appalled that there is so very little skill in the world. My old
business (locksmith) seldom even repairs a lock since I left. When I started
I used to make locks from scratch. Sadly that is the way of the world and I
must agree it does not make it a better place. Everybody's brains died when
the invented the pocket calculator and even the simplest mental arithmatic
seems to defeat everyone now! Very sad but the sums do get done. That's the
point really. Technology is designed to make the difficult easy - it is
therefore fundamental that it destoys skill - but never forget its great and
hugely redeeming feature - It also enables.

If I lived in the States I would snap up one of those apprentice positions
instantly even though I could hardly be considered a beginner and I would be
delighted to learn 'properly' HOW EVER LONG IT TOOK! It would be great if
everybody could do that.

I never had the benefit of any lessons whatsoever and I muddled through and
whilst I'm not the greatest glass cutter in the world I do cut in preference
to grinding. That is a result of time and a good deal of gritty
determination. But if hadn't found a cheat (grinder!) along the way I
wouldn't be irritating you right now - I'd be potting or knitting or
something!

As I understand it they originally cut glass with a hot poker. I would
dearly love to learn it how to do that - what a great demonstration for the
public!  When I eventually get over there to visit you all perhaps you would
take a few minutes to teach me? VVBG



BtB

>Well, I for one think that *how something is made does count... if
>the end result was all that mattered, then stained glass overlay
>ought to replace *Real stained glass.
>
>But, Brian makes a good point.  If you wanna buy a grinder, buy
>one.  If you wanna buy ten grinders, do that too, you'll be making
>lots of retailers happy.  Buy some saws while you're at it.  But,
>don't every apply for a job at my studio... you won't get the job.
>Just my pompous opinion, of course!
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer (who could use a couple of apprentices right now.... =
>
>anybody out there who can cut glass and doesn't have a grinder?)






-----Original Message-----
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Date: 15 February 1999 04:53
Subject: Re: Advice on first tools


>Well, I for one think that *how something is made does count... if
>the end result was all that mattered, then stained glass overlay
>ought to replace *Real stained glass.
>
>But, Brian makes a good point.  If you wanna buy a grinder, buy
>one.  If you wanna buy ten grinders, do that too, you'll be making
>lots of retailers happy.  Buy some saws while you're at it.  But,
>don't every apply for a job at my studio... you won't get the job.
>Just my pompous opinion, of course!
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer (who could use a couple of apprentices right now.... =
>
>anybody out there who can cut glass and doesn't have a grinder?)
>www.igga.org/greer/   =
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 07:15:03 1999
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Subject: Re: My lead restoration project
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:58:06 EST
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Hi Glenna,
You must be sooooo proud of yourself!  Looks terrific!  I can see now why you
just HAD to restore it!!!  You couldn't possibly think of using the glass as
scraps, as your neighbors had suggested.  Let us know how they react to your
masterpiece restoration!
Lenore
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 07:23:54 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Hi all,
A sudent arrived a couple of weeks ago to my class; she had already 
"done" s.g., she had attended a copper foil course (using grinders) 
with a colleague located further north from me, based at a respected 
Crafts College, and whom I have met on a number of occasions.
Which was why I was horrified to see said student graunching about on 
a piece of practice glass as if she was digging for gold.
I have now spent a total of 3 hours standing behind her watching her, 
correcting, goading, guiding and praising. This is an instant where 
hands on demo is worth a thousand words and EVEN a hundred pictures.
You just do not hold a glass cutter as if it was a pencil.
"But YOUR way is uncomfortable!", my students protest.
Only at first,  I reassure them time and time again. You will get 
used to it and then it becomes second nature....