From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 06:07:48 1998
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From: "wellwood" <wellwood@netcom.ca>
To: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:58:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.25858.0>
Precedence: bulk

Zipper is a thin and flexible copper u-came which is perforated along its
length and feels like a normal trouser zipper to the touch.  I haven't
bought any is a few years due to being overseas, but I used to buy it by the
foot at my local glass supply stores in Ottawa and in Petawawa, Ontario.

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 06:35:58 1998
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From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:32:39 -0500
Message-ID: <19981201132835.HSUT18504@vic>
Precedence: bulk

I have used braided pre-tinned copper wire on the two round panels I have
made so far.

The first one I made, I used the braided wire alone.  The wire is pretty
thin so I used 6 strands together, secured stationary to my bench with the
other end wrapped around a 6 inch piece of 1/4" wood dowel.  When I twisted
the dowel a braid was formed of the wire.

The second panel is framed with a combination of U shaped came with the
braid soldered to it.  The effect is similar to the rope chain and bezel
setting used by jewelers to mount gold coins and medals.  This way is
double work but the final effect was worth it and hopefully stronger IMO.

By the way, there is actually a tool sold for twisting the wire.

Ciao

Vic LaGreca, SIOR, CCIM
Vice President
Feist & Feist Realty Corp.


----------
> From: Daniela Birkelbach <dany@city-net.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: framing a round panel
> Date: Monday, November 30, 1998 12:15 PM
> 
> Hi everyone!
> 
> I'm making a 14" diameter round copper foil panel.  Is the best way to
> frame it with U Lead came?  Any other suggestions welcome!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dany
> 
> Daniela Birkelbach
> Software Consultant
> dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
> **********************************************************************
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 07:05:34 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig
From: tifstyorig@juno.com (Diane W Manchester)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:55:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.35526.0>
Precedence: bulk

Another suggestion for framing a round panel, or oval, first, solder H
came to create the "frame", then twist a second came strip and solder
around.  It gives a nice finishing look, and hides any small dips to
create the perfect circle.
Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
Carthage, NC
___________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 08:11:08 1998
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From: "Charles Spitzer" <Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: framing a round panel
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:15:26 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.11526.0>
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-----Original Message-----
From: vlg@worldnet.att.net <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: dany@city-net.com <dany@city-net.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: framing a round panel


>
<snip>
>By the way, there is actually a tool sold for twisting the wire.

tie the ends of the wires to something solid. put the other ends in your
variable speed power drill. turn on drill at very slow speed.

>Ciao
>
>Vic LaGreca, SIOR, CCIM
>Vice President
>Feist & Feist Realty Corp.
>
>
>----------
>> From: Daniela Birkelbach <dany@city-net.com>
>> To: glass@bungi.com
>> Subject: framing a round panel
>> Date: Monday, November 30, 1998 12:15 PM
>>
>> Hi everyone!
>>
>> I'm making a 14" diameter round copper foil panel.  Is the best way to
>> frame it with U Lead came?  Any other suggestions welcome!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Dany
>>
>> Daniela Birkelbach
>> Software Consultant
>> dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany


another method that i've used is to frame the piece with 1/4" H lead came,
and then solder jack chain in the outer part of the H. this is a very strong
way to hang it, since the hanging chains are attached to the surround chain
which holds the weight instead of using the lead to hold the weight.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 08:37:36 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, wellwood@netcom.ca
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Tue,  1 Dec 1998 10:02:59, -0500
Message-ID: <199812011502.KAA12990@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

There are at least three brass filigree U channels available that 
could qualify as zipper. They are in a leaf, daisy and plain pattern 
and readily form around bevels, etc. for a finished effect. Not as 
strong as brass came but plenty strong for a 14" diameter panel. You 
can tin the brass if desired. 

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Want to talk glass? Sübscribe E-mail list:  glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 09:00:32 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:26:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.52643.0>
Precedence: bulk

I double  #26 brass wire over a door knob, attach the ends to a cup hook in
the end of an electric drill and, at slow speed, twist it.  Then I double it
and twist it again.  You can keep this up and make brass cord any thickness
you want.  It makes great halos for window catcher angels, as well as
reenforcing material for panels, or staffs, wands, etc.  You can solder it
or leave it plain...

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.


-----Original Message-----
From: Vic <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: Daniela Birkelbach <dany@city-net.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: framing a round panel


>I have used braided pre-tinned copper wire on the two round panels I have
>made so far.
>
>The first one I made, I used the braided wire alone.  The wire is pretty
>thin so I used 6 strands together, secured stationary to my bench with the
>other end wrapped around a 6 inch piece of 1/4" wood dowel.  When I twisted
>the dowel a braid was formed of the wire.
>
>The second panel is framed with a combination of U shaped came with the
>braid soldered to it.  The effect is similar to the rope chain and bezel
>setting used by jewelers to mount gold coins and medals.  This way is
>double work but the final effect was worth it and hopefully stronger IMO.
>
>By the way, there is actually a tool sold for twisting the wire.
>
>Ciao
>
>Vic LaGreca, SIOR, CCIM
>Vice President
>Feist & Feist Realty Corp.
>
>
>----------
>> From: Daniela Birkelbach <dany@city-net.com>
>> To: glass@bungi.com
>> Subject: framing a round panel
>> Date: Monday, November 30, 1998 12:15 PM
>>
>> Hi everyone!
>>
>> I'm making a 14" diameter round copper foil panel.  Is the best way to
>> frame it with U Lead came?  Any other suggestions welcome!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Dany
>>
>> Daniela Birkelbach
>> Software Consultant
>> dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
>> **********************************************************************
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 10:10:50 1998
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: problem with lead came nippers
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:44:32 -0800
Message-ID: <199812011644.IAA24904@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Well, so far, everyone things my nippers have been used to cut wire...not
so, unless my dog's taken up some kind of hobby while I'm out...I'm lucky
that no one else uses my studio. Any more ideas?  

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 10:32:22 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'BOB   DUCHESNEAU'" <YWAH36A@prodigy.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: framing a round panel
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:19:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.71959.0>
Precedence: bulk

Oh, now I know what a zipper is.

Linda


BOB SAID 
There are at least three brass filigree U channels available that 
could qualify as zipper. They are in a leaf, daisy and plain pattern 
and readily form around bevels, etc. for a finished effect. Not as 
strong as brass came but plenty strong for a 14" diameter panel. You 
can tin the brass if desired. 

Bob


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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 10:45:38 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:49:18 -0800
Message-ID: <199812011649.IAA26085@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk


>By the way, there is actually a tool sold for twisting the wire.

For goodness sake...don't buy the tool for twisting the wire.  All you need
is an electric drill and a nail.  Hammer the nail into the end of your work
bench, hook the middle of a piece of wire around it, put the 2 loose ends
into the drill chuck, tighten the chuck and drill.  Presto...all the twisted
wire you'll ever need.

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 11:28:57 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: problem with lead came nippers
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:31:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.8311.0>
References: <<199812010044.QAA26031@oceanus.island.net>>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk

There is a possibility of wear, even if the young Gremlins haven't been
using them to cut wire, nails and assorted other things. If you don't
mind me asking, were they the cheaper choice? IMHO, when it comes to
cutting implements, get the best you can afford (sometimes even if you
can't). The difference between a lead knife that costs $7.95US and one
that's $24.95US is not that the cheap one may last 1/3 as long as the
expensive one, but maybe only 1/10 as long. 
They may be able to take a sharpening, but if they are not made of good
steel, the edges may not hold an edge, even if they only cut lead.
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 12:15:58 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: problem with lead came nippers
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:45:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.94554.0>
Precedence: bulk

Have you been cutting wire with your
nippers??  Have your been cutting =

wire with you nippers??  Boy, have I
heard *that before!!   And, yes, I did
cut wire with them because they're
so much sharper than regular wire
cutters, so there!  Now, I have two pairs,
one  I use for wire, one for lead.  Carol,
you either have a flawed pair... maybe
you could get an exchange from the
supplier.  Or, if you have one of the
cheaper pairs, well, they don't last
as long..... go for quality... buy the
Fan-Outs.... and make sure your dog
stays away form them;-)  !!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 12:50:54 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: all <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Copy of: Re: My new web site!
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:49:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.94937.0>
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---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:   Dani Greer, 105715,1412
TO:     "suzy@comcat.com", INTERNET:suzy@ComCAT.COM
DATE:   12/1/98 12:48 PM

RE:     Copy of: Re: My new web site!

Nice work, Christie!  I'd like to see some
more of the solar system series.  Also,
kudos to Albert again.  Now, if we could
get the potential buyers to see that work,
wouldn't that be the ultimate!!

Best regards,

Dani
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 13:11:54 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:49:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.94934.0>
Precedence: bulk

Carol says:

"For goodness sake... don't buy the tool
for twisting wire."

Dani says:

"Amen!"

Best,

D.
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 13:31:54 1998
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X-Path: netcom.ca!shmilly
From: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: UPDATE: Re Cutter's Mate
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:23:30 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981201152330.007bed70@popd.netcom.ca>
Precedence: bulk

hi all!....i got in touch with the manufacturer of the "Cutter's Mate" and
we chatted about the product.......he has a website up and running with
some basic info about the product if anyone else out there is interested in
checking it out.......the address is as follows:

         http://www.aboutrtown.com/~rs/csglass/

......a local stained glass store was kind enough to see about getting one
in for me next week to give it a try.......i only wish it were as cheap
here as you can get it in the U.S..........$189.00!!!..........i can't
believe it!!.........up here it's twice that!!.......i gotta start doing
some number crunching with the currency exchange,shipping,duties and taxes
here to see if i can save a dollar or two......well, just thought i would
let you know what's happening......bye for now.......Bill

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 14:32:00 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Tue Dec  1 13:42:35 1998
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.111835.0>
Precedence: bulk

When I learned to work on a car engine, the guy teaching me said stay
away from the "cute" special purpose tools. 
That cost a lot of money and you never really learn how to do it if you
rely on all the gizmos. 
That was back in '77 before the "all electric/computer controlled/ can't
adjust squat" engine. 
The important lessons stayed with me: Don't rely on gadgets!

If you learn to foil by hand you will always be able to do it. Your
skill will improve with time and practice. 
There is also nothing like the looks you get sitting out in public,
quietly foiling glass. You can't do that with a foiler.

Vic
		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Steve Hart [mailto:steve.hart@ces.uwex.edu]
		Sent:	Monday, November 30, 1998 4:05 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Introduction & Foiler

		Hi fellow stained glass glassers:

		Let me introduce myself.  My name is Steve and I am from
Wisconsin.  I took
		a stained glass class about a year ago and loved it.  I
really have not
		done much since that time (not enough hours in the day)
but I did but a lot
		of pre-cut kits to work on.  I am presently replacing
the clear glass in
		some attic windows with stained glass and working on a
panel for one of the
		windows.  

		I need your advice.  What kind of foiler to you use and
why?

		Steve
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 15:17:12 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: My new web site
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:38:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.113838.0>
Precedence: bulk

For those of you wondering, yes, Albert's done it again.
You can now see a few of my stained glass creations
at my new web site (thanks to Albert)...

http://www.igga.org/wood/

Check it out.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 17:18:43 1998
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: UPDATE: Re Cutter's Mate
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:46:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.14467.0>
Precedence: bulk

Bill........save your money......spend it on something more important.
I was wondering what would possess someone to purchase this .
Looks more like a dental drill than a glass cutter.
No disrespect to the inventor but I don't travel with a glass cutter and I
certainly don't sit when I cut glass. Maybe if you just add a motor it will
do it all.

Just my personal opinion.

my best,
pj (back to lurking where she belongs)
www.waterw.com/~artglass


-----Original Message-----
From: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 5:17 PM
Subject: UPDATE: Re Cutter's Mate


>hi all!....i got in touch with the manufacturer of the "Cutter's Mate" and
>we chatted about the product.......he has a website up and running with
>some basic info about the product if anyone else out there is interested in
>checking it out.......the address is as follows:
>
>         http://www.aboutrtown.com/~rs/csglass/
>
>......a local stained glass store was kind enough to see about getting one
>in for me next week to give it a try.......i only wish it were as cheap
>here as you can get it in the U.S..........$189.00!!!..........i can't
>believe it!!.........up here it's twice that!!.......i gotta start doing
>some number crunching with the currency exchange,shipping,duties and taxes
>here to see if i can save a dollar or two......well, just thought i would
>let you know what's happening......bye for now.......Bill
>
>----
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>



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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 22:12:11 1998
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From: Awbaxter@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:51:19 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.45119.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-12-01 17:34:06 EST, daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com
writes:

<< If you learn to foil by hand you will always be able to do it. Your
 skill will improve with time and practice. 
 There is also nothing like the looks you get sitting out in public,
 quietly foiling glass. You can't do that with a foiler.
 
 Vic >>
I'm with you, Vic.  Foiling is one of the few stained glass tasks portable
enough to go to the hockey rink, the soccer field, community meetings, etc. If
I have to go, I might as well be productive!  

Ann 
Harvard Art & Glass Works
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 22:34:01 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Kath8284
From: Kath8284@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: twisting wire
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:06:08 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.568.0>
Precedence: bulk

   I made an open  loop out of very heavy gauge wire that will fit into the
chuck for my Dremel ....I then use a small "C" clamp to hold the loose ends of
wire to a shelf and then slip the loop end of the wire into the metal loop in
the Dremel......turn the Dremel on low speed and twist away.

   I twist 20 gauge wire, then loop it again and twist to make my halo's for
my larger Angels........looks great.

Kathy 
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 22:39:38 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Soldering
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:48:13 -0000
Message-ID: <199812020552.AAA22323@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

There was a thread a couple of days ago about soldering, and I remember 
someone saying those little "pits" (kind of a leathery look) were caused 
by soldering in a cold room.

Today it happened to me, and the room wasn't cold, the iron was hot, the 
flux and solder were good and the iron was clean. Only variable - 
silvered foil (silver on both sides). 

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 01:19:20 1998
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: problem with lead came nippers
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:51:56 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.85156.0>
Precedence: bulk

Well, so far, everyone things my nippers have been used to cut
wire...not
so, unless my dog's taken up some kind of hobby while I'm out...I'm
lucky
that no one else uses my studio. Any more ideas?  

C.

Carol Swann

Sometimes problems can be due to wear on the tools pin bearing that
holds the jaws together and the faces do not close together properly so
the cutting faces do not match on closure.The jaws can be sharpened very
carefully using an engineers slip stone and kerosene.This is a very fine
abrasive tool sharpening stone that can be got in different shapes from
professional tool stores.The ones I use are 3/8 of an inch square and
four inches long or 1 inch wide and 1/4 inch thick by four inches long.
You wet the slip with kerosene then wipe it on the tools cutting edges
taking great care to keep the same cutting edge shape. Experts job
really,sling the tool and buy a new one.

Brandon
UK
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 04:20:44 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg
From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: framing a round panel/Gizmos
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 06:45:03 -0500
Message-ID: <19981202114102.TAH15045@vic>
Precedence: bulk

Now you tell me!!

I already bought that "thingy".  

I used to use the power drill method along with the "trapezium method".  

The trapezium method is where my cousin from the flying Tortoni, Maroni,
Bologna and McNally's hangs and spins using a mouth gizmo attached to
tinned copper strands from a platform 60 feet off the ground. (I've lost
two cousins and 14 onlookers using this method so far.  ((They're known as
the Bologna's and McNally's these days)). 

Gizmos (what ever their apparent use is) are good "things".  Just ask me
for I am expert on these "things".  I own them all as of 5:00 this
morning!!  Who knows what "things" will appear from the vapor today.

Ciao

Vic LaGreca


----------
> From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: framing a round panel
> Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 2:49 PM
> 
> Carol says:
> 
> "For goodness sake... don't buy the tool
> for twisting wire."
> 
> Dani says:
> 
> "Amen!"
> 
> Best,
> 
> D.
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 06:25:49 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW
From: CWWSLW@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: soldering irons
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:50:48 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.135048.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello all,

I have a question that has been bugging me for a while. Could somebody please
tell me the proper way to clean/use a soldering iron? 

I purchased an 80 watt weller iron, am not using a retrostat with it. I was
led to believe I didn't need one. But the tip gets gunky fast. I wipe it on a
damp sponge while soldering. Sometimes the end turns a bluish/coppery color,
and the solder gobs up and looks nasty on the tip. 

Could someone please end my misery and explain the proper care/usage of an
iron?

Thanks,
Susan
Alabama
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 07:26:00 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg
From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Carol Swann" <seaspray@mail.island.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:03:54 -0500
Message-ID: <19981202135940.EFAZ1787@vic>
Precedence: bulk

Now you tell me!!

I already bought that "thingy".  

I used to use the power drill method along with the "trapezium method".  

The trapezium method is where my cousin from the flying Tortoni, Maroni,
Bologna and McNally's hangs and spins using a mouth gizmo attached to
tinned copper strands from a platform 60 feet off the ground. (I've lost
two cousins and 14 onlookers using this method so far.  ((They're known as
the Bologna's and McNally's these days)). 

Gizmos (what ever their apparent use is) are good "things".  Just ask me
for I am expert on these "things".  I own them all as of 5:00 this
morning!!  Who knows what "things" will appear from the vapor today.

Ciao

Vic LaGreca

---------
> From: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: framing a round panel
> Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:49 AM
> 
> 
> >By the way, there is actually a tool sold for twisting the wire.
> 
> For goodness sake...don't buy the tool for twisting the wire.  All you
need
> is an electric drill and a nail.  Hammer the nail into the end of your
work
> bench, hook the middle of a piece of wire around it, put the 2 loose ends
> into the drill chuck, tighten the chuck and drill.  Presto...all the
twisted
> wire you'll ever need.
> 
> C.
> 
> Carol Swann
> Synergy Glass & Creative
> http://www.igga.org/synergy
> seaspray@island.net
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 07:29:08 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Soldering
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 09:01:08 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981202090108.006b4598@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Precedence: bulk

I have always worked with the notion that the pits are caused by too much
flux ....... the flux sizzels and splatters, leaving pits in the solder line.

Barbara

>X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
>X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
>From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
>To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
>Subject: Soldering
>Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:48:13 -0000
>
>There was a thread a couple of days ago about soldering, and I remember 
>someone saying those little "pits" (kind of a leathery look) were caused 
>by soldering in a cold room.
>
>Today it happened to me, and the room wasn't cold, the iron was hot, the 
>flux and solder were good and the iron was clean. Only variable - 
>silvered foil (silver on both sides). 
>
>Has anyone else experienced this problem?
>
>Suzanne
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 08:02:07 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg
From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Etched Glass Techniques and Designs
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:15:05 -0500
Message-ID: <19981202141047.EJMK1787@vic>
Precedence: bulk

I just received a copy of "ETCHED GLASS techniques and Designs",
the latest book by Norm & Ruth Dobbins.

IMO It is definitely worth while for anyone interested in this aspect of
glass or anyone who just appreciates great art.  Art and sculpture by many
artist's and craftsman depicting different techniques and styles.

Ciao

Vic

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 08:23:35 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Soldering
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:39:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.4392.0>
Precedence: bulk

Suzy, a couple of possibilities....Either the iron was too hot, causing the
solder to boil, or you had too much flux on the work, causing the flux to
boil.  Either cause would make the solder pit.

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: suzy@comcat.com <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: glass bungi line <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 1:46 AM
Subject: Soldering


>There was a thread a couple of days ago about soldering, and I remember
>someone saying those little "pits" (kind of a leathery look) were caused
>by soldering in a cold room.
>
>Today it happened to me, and the room wasn't cold, the iron was hot, the
>flux and solder were good and the iron was clean. Only variable -
>silvered foil (silver on both sides).
>
>Has anyone else experienced this problem?
>
>Suzanne
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 08:56:16 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  RE: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:34:08 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.14348.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 12/1/98 5:34:06 PM, daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com
wrote:

>There is also nothing like the looks you get sitting out in public,
>quietly foiling glass. You can't do that with a foiler.

Oh no? Just watch me.......

A while back when I was trucking my tools to Christie's *and* to Lenore's, I
had my Glastar foiler attached to a folding TV tray table. The collapsed table
(with foiler attached) fit perfectly in the slot between the seat and the
milk-crate basket on my motor scooter. My tool bucket went in the basket, and
I was off and running! I could set up my foiling table anywhere. It was a
little wobbly, but I got used to it.


Sparks card-carrying gadget freak

(but I still fix everything around the house with a hammer, a screwdriver, and
a couple of pairs of pliers just like my mom & dad taught me.........)
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 09:10:00 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re: framing a round panel/Gizmos
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:33:35 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.143335.0>
Precedence: bulk


Also sprach Vic, cousin to the flying Tortoni, Maroni, Bologna and McNally's:

>I am expert on these "things".  I own them all as of 5:00 this
>morning!!

5:00 this morning???????????

Visions of all-night hardware stores are dancing in my head......... sometimes
the 3 a.m. craving for a new drill bit is at least as strong as the 3 a.m.
craving for Ben & Jerry's................

MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 09:22:44 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg
From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:45:56 -0500
Message-ID: <19981202154132.GCHX1787@vic>
Precedence: bulk

I am not an alarmist nor am I unfamiliar with taking shortcuts and chances
and occasionally using tools for uses they were not intended for. However,
I feel the need to get serious regarding the recent thread related to
"twisting wire".

Using a power drill to twist wire is an avenue paved for disaster.  
The word "backlash" comes quickly into my mind.

I have witnessed wire and cable snaps both in construction and during my
tours in the Navy.  Not very pretty sights.  Of course these cables were
slightly larger and under much more torque and/or tension than would be
used for tinned stained glass work.  This accounts for their forces being
able to slice the canopy off of an A3D jet and take a portion (no need to
discuss what portion) of the pilot with it. Or the two guys I ONCE KNEW
that were trying to pull a bulldozer out of a muddy ravine with cable and
winch. 

The optimum words I have seen used here are "a power drill at low speed". 
That's sound advice and should go along with keep an eye (hopefully not
literally) on the tension on the wire.  Keep it in mind while your child is
tugging at your pants leg, the door chime rings, your best customer walks
in with a signed contract for that $100,000 project you had a bid on or the
pot is boiling over.

Sorry but at this stage in my life I have become very important to myself.
Dowels and gizmos for me.

Ciao

Vic LaGreca

----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 09:46:51 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Shows in SE Pa area
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:13:21 -0000
Message-ID: <199812021517.KAA29679@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

Anyone know of any good spring craft shows in the southeast Penna. area 
that don't cost an arm & leg to rent space???

TIA
Suzanne
----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 10:26:11 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Soldering
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 11:13:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.61319.0>
References: <<199812020552.AAA22323@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Precedence: bulk

suzy@comcat.com wrote:
> 
> There was a thread a couple of days ago about soldering, and I remember
> someone saying those little "pits" (kind of a leathery look) were caused
> by soldering in a cold room.
> 
> Today it happened to me, and the room wasn't cold, the iron was hot, the
> flux and solder were good and the iron was clean. Only variable -
> silvered foil (silver on both sides).
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this problem?
> 
> Suzanne
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


if it's little pits, as in little volcano like structures, then it's
usually caused by too much flux. the flux under the solder boils,
causing steams, causing pits.  any other kind of pit may be caused by
the solder seeping through too much.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 10:27:36 1998
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charles_Spitzer
From: "Charles Spitzer" <Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: Soldering
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:49:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.1497.0>
Precedence: bulk

metal shrinks when cooling. the pits are caused by either voids underneath
that collapse, or the center or bottom of the line is cooling before the
surface, sucking down the surface before it has hardened.

i also have a hard time believing that the temperature of the room has
anything to do with this. there isn't much difference between 50F and 90F,
when the cooling point of solder is so much higher (360+?). once the temp of
the solder goes below the cooling point, it doesn't matter what the exterior
room temp is. this affect is probably connected with the speed at which the
skin cools.

regards,
charlie
phx, az
-----Original Message-----
From: bjs10@cornell.edu <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 7:01 AM
Subject: Soldering


>I have always worked with the notion that the pits are caused by too much
>flux ....... the flux sizzels and splatters, leaving pits in the solder
line.
>
>Barbara
>
>>X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
>>X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified)
>>From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
>>To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
>>Subject: Soldering
>>Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:48:13 -0000
>>
>>There was a thread a couple of days ago about soldering, and I remember
>>someone saying those little "pits" (kind of a leathery look) were caused
>>by soldering in a cold room.
>>
>>Today it happened to me, and the room wasn't cold, the iron was hot, the
>>flux and solder were good and the iron was clean. Only variable -
>>silvered foil (silver on both sides).
>>
>>Has anyone else experienced this problem?
>>
>>Suzanne
>>----
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>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 10:46:03 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: CWWSLW@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 11:18:52 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.61852.0>
References: <<1998Dec2.135048.0>>
Precedence: bulk

CWWSLW@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I have a question that has been bugging me for a while. Could somebody please
> tell me the proper way to clean/use a soldering iron?
> 
> I purchased an 80 watt weller iron, am not using a retrostat with it. I was
> led to believe I didn't need one. But the tip gets gunky fast. I wipe it on a
> damp sponge while soldering. Sometimes the end turns a bluish/coppery color,
> and the solder gobs up and looks nasty on the tip.
> 
> Could someone please end my misery and explain the proper care/usage of an
> iron?
> 
> Thanks,
> Susan
> Alabama
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


under my tips section i have tool maintenance, cleaning irons is one of
them. mainly you need a reostat, and to turn it down. the iron is
running too hot, and it will 'gunk' up when it is.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 11:32:22 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:06:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.8656.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have this little gizmo for twisting wire (small lengths at a time) that 
came from a fishing lure company. It's a little jig that mounts on a board 
and has a hand crank. It's strong enough to twist spring steel for bottom 
rig standoffs so it works for what i want. Got it from a place called 
Netcraft. Some gizmos become indispensable after time. :) Still foiling 
with my fingers tho.

Jann's Netcraft
 P.O. Box 89
Maumee, OH, 43537

1-800-NETCRAFT

(1-800-638-2723).


Vic said:

 I am not an alarmist nor am I unfamiliar with taking shortcuts and chances
and occasionally using tools for uses they were not intended for. However,
I feel the need to get serious regarding the recent thread related to
"twisting wire".

Using a power drill to twist wire is an avenue paved for disaster.
The word "backlash" comes quickly into my mind.

I have witnessed wire and cable snaps both in construction and during my
tours in the Navy.  Not very pretty sights.  Of course these cables were
slightly larger and under much more torque and/or tension than would be
used for tinned stained glass work.  This accounts for their forces being
able to slice the canopy off of an A3D jet and take a portion (no need to
discuss what portion) of the pilot with it. Or the two guys I ONCE KNEW
that were trying to pull a bulldozer out of a muddy ravine with cable and
winch.

The optimum words I have seen used here are "a power drill at low speed".
That's sound advice and should go along with keep an eye (hopefully not
literally) on the tension on the wire.  Keep it in mind while your child is
tugging at your pants leg, the door chime rings, your best customer walks
in with a signed contract for that $100,000 project you had a bid on or the
pot is boiling over.

Sorry but at this stage in my life I have become very important to myself.
Dowels and gizmos for me.

Ciao

Vic LaGreca

----
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----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 12:15:42 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <esavad@home.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Soldering
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:19:40 -0000
Message-ID: <199812021923.OAA27502@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

>suzy@comcat.com wrote:
>> 
>> There was a thread a couple of days ago about soldering, and I remember
>> someone saying those little "pits" (kind of a leathery look) were caused
>> by soldering in a cold room.
>> 
>> Today it happened to me, and the room wasn't cold, the iron was hot, the
>> flux and solder were good and the iron was clean. Only variable -
>> silvered foil (silver on both sides).
>> 
>> Has anyone else experienced this problem?

Mike Savad replied:

>if it's little pits, as in little volcano like structures, then it's
>usually caused by too much flux. the flux under the solder boils,
>causing steams, causing pits.  any other kind of pit may be caused by
>the solder seeping through too much.

Suzy sezs again:

Mike, I didn't explain well enough. The lines are all beautiful going on, 
not the too-much-flux splattering at all. As the solder sets, though, 
instead of setting nice & smooth, it kind of gets grey looking and a bit 
leathery. Help!

Suzanne
----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 13:15:00 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Wed Dec  2 12:16:15 1998
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.95215.0>
Precedence: bulk

All gizmos are not bad. I own enough assorted gadgets and gizmo to
supply a small army. 
They run the gambit from cooking, to glass, to shooting, to photography
....

My point was that I learned how to work without the gizmos before buying
them. Frequently the gizmos stay where they are because it is more
effort to set them or set them up than to do it by hand.  Frequently
they are not used just so my hands remember how to do what the gizmo
does. 

Other Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Vic [mailto:vlg@worldnet.att.net]
		Sent:	Wednesday, December 02, 1998 10:46 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	In defense of GIZMOS

		I am not an alarmist nor am I unfamiliar with taking
shortcuts and chances
		and occasionally using tools for uses they were not
intended for. However,
		I feel the need to get serious regarding the recent
thread related to
		"twisting wire".

		Using a power drill to twist wire is an avenue paved for
disaster.  
		The word "backlash" comes quickly into my mind.

		I have witnessed wire and cable snaps both in
construction and during my
		tours in the Navy.  Not very pretty sights.  Of course
these cables were
		slightly larger and under much more torque and/or
tension than would be
		used for tinned stained glass work.  This accounts for
their forces being
		able to slice the canopy off of an A3D jet and take a
portion (no need to
		discuss what portion) of the pilot with it. Or the two
guys I ONCE KNEW
		that were trying to pull a bulldozer out of a muddy
ravine with cable and
		winch. 

		The optimum words I have seen used here are "a power
drill at low speed". 
		That's sound advice and should go along with keep an eye
(hopefully not
		literally) on the tension on the wire.  Keep it in mind
while your child is
		tugging at your pants leg, the door chime rings, your
best customer walks
		in with a signed contract for that $100,000 project you
had a bid on or the
		pot is boiling over.

		Sorry but at this stage in my life I have become very
important to myself.
		Dowels and gizmos for me.

		Ciao

		Vic LaGreca

		----
		For subscription changes, please mail to:
glass-request@bungi.com
		To send to the list,      please mail to:
glass@bungi.com
		Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 13:27:04 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg
From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Non Glass - server question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:59:58 -0500
Message-ID: <19981202195535.IVUU15045@vic>
Precedence: bulk

First off this is not a complaint.  I am just trying to determine the
method of distribution

Between 6 AM & 8:30 Am this morning I sent out 4 posts to this group. They
were all sent out immediately after they were typed. However the received
times shown are 8:02, 11:21, 11:51 and 1:25 PM.

In the same period I sent out 3 Emails to 3 separate individuals in
different parts of the world and received responses from all three before
the first one to Bungi was marked as received. 

My question is:  Is this a function of how and when they are sent from my
service to Bungi or when they are sent back to me via Bungi's server?

I can't determine any "pattern" as the above times will indicate. 

In the meantime, as a test, the time is now 2:52:41 PM EST (this according
to my atomic watch / pager / voice mail / sports scores / stock market
reports / NJ lottery giver / sun index / air quality / weather forecaster /
weather reporting / alarm / tied to my computer and GPS - WRIST WATCH. 
This the ultimate GADGET / GIZMO / THINGY EVER.  H*LL it even tells time
and gives the date.

Ciao

Vic LaGreca 

----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 13:31:58 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Shows in SE Pa area
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:50:23 +0000
Message-ID: <199812022041.PAA14002@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> Anyone know of any good spring craft shows in the southeast Penna. area 
> that don't cost an arm & leg to rent space???

You might research the listings at http://www.artandcraftshows.net/ 
remembering that you often get what you pay for. <smile>

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 14:09:49 1998
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X-Path: socent.org!atf
From: ATF Distribution Center <atf@socent.org>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>, bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Soldering
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 15:47:13 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.104713.0>
References: <<199812021923.OAA27502@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

This happens to me when my solder &/or brush get dirty. When it looks bad I
take off the solder clean up area & brush/solder. It usually works & looks
better!
K. See

suzy@comcat.com wrote:

> >suzy@comcat.com wrote:
> >>
> >> There was a thread a couple of days ago about soldering, and I remember
> >> someone saying those little "pits" (kind of a leathery look) were caused
> >> by soldering in a cold room.
> >>
> >> Today it happened to me, and the room wasn't cold, the iron was hot, the
> >> flux and solder were good and the iron was clean. Only variable -
> >> silvered foil (silver on both sides).
> >>
> >> Has anyone else experienced this problem?
>
> Mike Savad replied:
>
> >if it's little pits, as in little volcano like structures, then it's
> >usually caused by too much flux. the flux under the solder boils,
> >causing steams, causing pits.  any other kind of pit may be caused by
> >the solder seeping through too much.
>
> Suzy sezs again:
>
> Mike, I didn't explain well enough. The lines are all beautiful going on,
> not the too-much-flux splattering at all. As the solder sets, though,
> instead of setting nice & smooth, it kind of gets grey looking and a bit
> leathery. Help!
>
> Suzanne
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 14:41:57 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, suzy@ComCAT.COM
Subject: Re: Soldering
Date: Wed,  2 Dec 1998 16:33:56, -0500
Message-ID: <199812022133.QAA13580@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Suzy sezs again:

Mike, I didn't explain well enough. The lines are all beautiful going 
on, 
not the too-much-flux splattering at all. As the solder sets, though, 

instead of setting nice & smooth, it kind of gets grey looking and a 
bit 
leathery. Help!

Suzanne<<

I "think" the leathery looking solder is caused by to rapid cooling 
of the solder bead. The silver front and back foil is an excellent 
heat conductor and is contributing to the rapid heat loss. If you 
have seams if varying width, the wider seams should have the look and 
not the smaller. So, increase the heat applied by going slower or 
solder by first filling and then beading.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:        glass@intrastar.net
----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 16:02:22 1998
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X-Path: citynet.net!khupp
From: Kathy <khupp@citynet.net>
To: ATF Distribution Center <atf@socent.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Soldering
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 18:48:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.134816.0>
References: <<1998Dec2.104713.0>>
Precedence: bulk



> This happens to me when my solder &/or brush get dirty. When it looks bad I
> take off the solder clean up area & brush/solder. It usually works & looks
> better!
> K. See

I think maybe K. See is on to something. I solder often in a very cold room,
today it was 30 degrees when I started. No problem. But I use 40/60 instead of
the usual 60/40 and it is dirtier, and will tend to leave the leathery look you
describe. Usually going over again with a clean tip handles this. The tip picks
up the junk and takes it from the project I'm working on. Look and see if your
solder got dirty . It may help. (I do have to clean MY tip all the time, because
I'm using 40/60), but when I'm done, I get very satisfactory results.

Good luck, Kathy

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 17:33:44 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Non Glass - server question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:19:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.151926.0>
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Here's another observation - I find that
when I "reply" directly to the sender and
CC: bungi, I can get a 2nd reply from the
individual long before the CC ever comes
back to me via bungi.  If I just send direct
to bungi (and skip the individual reply),
it posts much more quickly to the group.
I figured it was my server.... but then, I like
to blame everything on CompuServe! ;-)

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 18:37:00 1998
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: My new web site
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:03:07 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.1837.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Christie,

Been to your site. The panel "Mars, Bringer of Wars is really very good.
Crae to share how it was done? Like the Cabernet... too, I have a very
similar one, but much smaller one.

Good work.

Shakeel Abedi
shakeel@tm.net.my
Shakeel Abedi
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: Christie A. Wood <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 7:52 AM
Subject: My new web site


>For those of you wondering, yes, Albert's done it again.
>You can now see a few of my stained glass creations
>at my new web site (thanks to Albert)...
>
>http://www.igga.org/wood/
>
>Check it out.
>
>Christie A. Wood
>Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
>P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 19:07:08 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean N." <jean@lasercom.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Fw: Menorah Pattern
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:08:08 -0800
Message-ID: <199812030204.SAA15094@intergate.lasercom.net>
Precedence: bulk



> 
> Hi All,
> My 8 yr old grand daughter decided she wants me to make her a Menorah
for
> her birthday (in 10 days!). Not a suncatcher -- a REAL one that she can
> put candles in.
> 
> HELP! Does anyone out there have a pattern, or idea for this? I am at a
> loss.  All suggestions will be greatly appreciated. (Mike, you are full
> of ideas, how about you?)
> 
> Jean N.
).
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 20:39:30 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Soldering
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:32:37 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.33237.0>
Precedence: bulk


>> Suzy sezs again:
>>
>> Mike, I didn't explain well enough. The lines are all beautiful going on,
>> not the too-much-flux splattering at all. As the solder sets, though,
>> instead of setting nice & smooth, it kind of gets grey looking and a bit
>> leathery. Help!

I'm inclined to agree with Charlie that it's a surface cooling effect. I
reported this happening a couple of months ago when the weather started to get
cooler. In cold conditions, the solder surface cools faster and tries to set
up, then it continues to shrink as the hot metal underneath cools, so you get
tiny little roughnesses in the surface.

There's more thermal expansion and contraction than you might think, though.
Just think about the old trick of running hot water over a stuck jar lid to
loosen it up. Even boiling water is 150-200F cooler than molten solder, and it
expands your jar lid enough to get it off. I wish my big ol' chemical data
handbooks weren't packed away in the furthest reaches of my basement, I'd see
if I could find thermal expansion data on the solder alloys.

I also agree with Bob Duchesneau that the funky effect is more likely if
you've got wide joints or gaps. In that case I use 50/50 to fill, let it cool,
then run a 60/40 bead. The 50/50 stays "pastier" so it's less likely to melt
through than a 60/40 fill.

(And no, I'm not going to turn down my iron unless I really, *REALLY* have to,
like if I were to try sweat-soldering lead. You'd see every shake of my hands
in the finished product........)


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 20:56:49 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Non Glass - server question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:32:29 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.33229.0>
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In a message dated 12/2/98 4:30:21 PM (plus or minus 3 hours, 56 minutes, 29.4
seconds), vlg@worldnet.att.net wrote from the time warp he's stuck in:

>My question is:  Is this a function of how and when they are sent from my
>service to Bungi or when they are sent back to me via Bungi's server?
>
>I can't determine any "pattern" as the above times will indicate. 

It has to do with how the net shuttles messges around. There's no one central
hub, just a lot of relay nodes, and once you get outside your own ISP, your
message could go all over hell's half acre looking for a clear path. BTW,
smaller ISPs often "piggyback" on big ones, so your internet message might
actually be traveling via "Earthlink" or AOL or whatever, just like your long-
distance phone calls. (One time a few years ago I had to make an operator-
assisted call via Working Assets, and just before connecting my call, the
operator said, "Thank you for using SPRINT!")

When you start getting replies *before* you send your message, that's when you
should start worrying.........


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 21:08:45 1998
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:42:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.17427.0>
Precedence: bulk

Vic,  I "used to " twist wire with a drill and had it snap one to many
times.  I confess that I too am a gizmo junkie.  But I draw the line at
that wood block called a nugget foiler....that's just plain stupid!!
IMHO                    Karen
>I feel the need to get serious regarding the recent thread related to
>"twisting wire".
>
>Using a power drill to twist wire is an avenue paved for disaster.
>The word "backlash" comes quickly into my mind.
>
>I have witnessed wire and cable snaps both in construction and during my
>tours in the Navy.  Not very pretty sights.  Of course these cables were
>slightly larger and under much more torque and/or tension than would be
>used for tinned stained glass work.  This accounts for their forces being
>able to slice the canopy off of an A3D jet and take a portion (no need to
>discuss what portion) of the pilot with it. Or the two guys I ONCE KNEW
>that were trying to pull a bulldozer out of a muddy ravine with cable and
>winch.
>
>The optimum words I have seen used here are "a power drill at low speed".
>That's sound advice and should go along with keep an eye (hopefully not
>literally) on the tension on the wire.  Keep it in mind while your child
is
>tugging at your pants leg, the door chime rings, your best customer walks
>in with a signed contract for that $100,000 project you had a bid on or
the
>pot is boiling over.
>
>Sorry but at this stage in my life I have become very important to
myself.
>Dowels and gizmos for me.
>
>Ciao
>
>Vic LaGreca
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 21:22:30 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: RE: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:32:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.173232.0>
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>Sparks card-carrying gadget freak
>
>(but I still fix everything around the house with a hammer, a
screwdriver, and
>a couple of pairs of pliers just like my mom & dad taught me.........)
>----
You forgot the Duct Tape....1001 uses
Karen

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 21:50:09 1998
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "Bungi Group" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: e-mail address for Glass Patterns Quarterly
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:24:46 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.52446.0>
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Guys

I have trying to send mail to Glass Patterns Quarterly. (gpq@aol.com) But
mail returns with message that address is invalid.

Does anyone know anything about this?

Thanks in advance.

Shakeel Abedi
shakeel@tm.net.my
Shakeel Abedi
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 22:22:26 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com
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Subject: unsubscribe
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:57:23 -0600
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Thank you for your service PJ..
Don <eldondo1@juno.com>

___________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 22:45:36 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Jean N." <jean@lasercom.net>, "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Menorah Pattern
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:13:29 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.171329.0>
Precedence: bulk

Jean,

I have a pattern for a panel. It will cost you a bio. email me your snail
mail address and I'll have it in the mail.



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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 22:59:34 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Soldering
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:21:09 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.17219.0>
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Suzy,

Why don't you just tell people its decorative soldering and it takes a
special skill to get the effect?

(8-)



Mike, I didn't explain well enough. The lines are all beautiful going on,
>> not the too-much-flux splattering at all. As the solder sets, though,
>> instead of setting nice & smooth, it kind of gets grey looking and a bit
>> leathery. Help!

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  2 23:26:33 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: vmodiano (other Vic)
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 00:31:23 -0600
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Vic

Man, your email address is hard one to get.  I have been waiting and
waiting for you to post...you sure have been quiet lately.  I dont know
how to get the email address out of the anti spam stuff sooo...

Anyway...I wanted to thank you for the snail mail!  What a surprise.  I
was expecting like a one page chart!  lol...not a book!  I sure am glad
I opened the envelope.  My first impulse was to just toss it in the
trash, thinking it was promo/advertising stuff from a software company!
Thans so much for the time you put into that.  Very nice of you.

Tulsa Suzanne

-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 00:02:48 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: suzy@ComCAT.COM
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Soldering
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:19:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.201959.0>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne,

The dull patches you describe can probably be eliminated by changing your
brand of solder.

Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com


 I 
>remember
>>> someone saying those little "pits" (kind of a leathery look) were 
>caused
>>> by soldering in a cold room.
>>> 
>>> Today it happened to me, and the room wasn't cold, the iron was 
>hot, the
>>> flux and solder were good and the iron was clean. Only variable -
>>> silvered foil (silver on both sides).
>>> 
>>> Has anyone else experienced this problem?
>
>Mike Savad replied:
>
>. The lines are all beautiful going 
>on, 
>not the too-much-flux splattering at all. As the solder sets, though, 
>
>instead of setting nice & smooth, it kind of gets grey looking and a 
>bit 
>leathery. Help!
>
>Suzanne
>


___________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 00:20:22 1998
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "Bungi Group" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: e-mail address for Glass Patterns Quarterly
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:38:26 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.233826.0>
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I found it.

gpq@iglou.com

Have ent a mail there and it has not bounced back, I presume they have
received.

Thanks

Shakeel Abedi
shakeel@tm.net.my
Shakeel Abedi
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: Shakeel Abedi <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: Bungi Group <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 2:12 PM
Subject: e-mail address for Glass Patterns Quarterly


>Guys
>
>I have trying to send mail to Glass Patterns Quarterly. (gpq@aol.com) But
>mail returns with message that address is invalid.
>
>Does anyone know anything about this?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Shakeel Abedi
>shakeel@tm.net.my
>Shakeel Abedi
>Rainbow Stained Glass
>104, Jalan Mersing
>86000 Kluang
>Malaysia
>Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 01:03:25 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: ps
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 02:19:35 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.201935.0>
Precedence: bulk

I want to make alot of money so I can buy alot of glass, and be prepared
to kick some @ss at my next show!  
Guess workin all these hours gets to ya, with no guarenteed paycheck!  
Seriously, I will be happy to make my booth fee...and ...oh hell... Im
lying...so I might as well shut up.


Tulsa....suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 01:15:18 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: jean@lasercom.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Fw: Menorah Pattern
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:49:49 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.74949.0>
Precedence: bulk

Jean,

Not sure if this is a viable option, but can you make 9 (is that right? Sorry
if I am wrong) separate candle holders in different heights for her to line
up.  The effect would be the same, the candles burning in a row but it would
be easier for you to make.  I know there are some very contemporary menorahs
out there so do you need to use taper candles?   The candle holders I was
complaining about a few weeks ago with the sand stuck in the flux may be a
decent option (minus the sand and shells of course)  I used 4 - 2" wide
rectangle bevels and made a tall narrow shape, attached a 2 X 2 piece of clear
glass on the bottom and top to close it in then on two adjoining sides of the
top added 2 X 2 bevels as a "shelter" for the flame.  Am I explaining this
well enough?  I made them in different heights but to illustrate what I am
trying to explain one of them when finished measured 6 inches tall on two of
the side and the additional bevels made the other two sides 8 inches tall.  I
found some small votive holders at Pier One or Cost Plus and set them on the
top.  They are the smaller holders that fit the tea light candles not the
votive candles.  When its lit, it looks pretty because the bevels reflect the
flame quite nicely.   Good luck. 

Pat  
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 01:58:48 1998
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Soldering 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:53:23 -0000
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>>Suzy sezs again:

>Mike, I didn't explain well enough. The lines are all beautiful going 
>on, 
>not the too-much-flux splattering at all. As the solder sets, though, 

>instead of setting nice & smooth, it kind of gets grey looking and a 
>bit 
>leathery. Help!

>Suzanne<<

>I "think" the leathery looking solder is caused by to rapid cooling 
>of the solder bead.
 
If you think that the cold is a problem try warming the whole panel area
where you are soldering with a hair dryer then try again.

Brandon
UK
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 03:56:42 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: advice again? ;o)
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 01:44:57 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec2.194457.0>
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Hi everybody.  Every single finger that is attached to me hurts so bad,
dont know if I can go to sleep.  Spent yesterday cutting all day.  Today
was soldering all day (9am -midnight)  
Lessons I learned today.

1.Flux stings!  (bad)

2. when you are tired enough you really dont give a damn whether you die
from lead poisoning or old age, you just want some rest. 
 Why arent you supposed to drink while you solder?  I dont dip my ingers
in my drink. 

3.I need more bandaides, and time.  Now, for the advice request...

My cousin (by marriage) is a glass blower, and his sole source of income
is shows and commissions.  He is loaning me two of his tables and drapes
(red, ugh) but will cover them with white table cloths...still not the
best.  wish I had black to set off my smooth white cement!
Will display my ornaments on two 3' Christmas trees with small white
lights.  

My problem....How am I going to display my sun catchers?  I have no
clue.  I would appreciate suggestions.  I know I had at least one the
day I found out about the show, but I cannot find it.

Yes, I am having fun. I have never made so much in such a short period
of time!  Amazing.  It isnt enough, either.  I am not worried that I
will not sell anything.  Just wish I had more to sell.

Suzanne


-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 04:28:05 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 02:39:10 -0600
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> >There is also nothing like the looks you get sitting out in public,
> >quietly foiling glass. You can't do that with a foiler.
> 
> Oh no? Just watch me.......
> 


Obviously not a tequila drinker!

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 04:29:01 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Vic'" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: RE: Non Glass - server question
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 06:12:42 -0500
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Vic,

My computer says that you sent this at 3:00 PM, see below. My computer also 
says that I recieved it at 4:58 pm. That's when my server picked it up.

My question about the bungi server deals with actual distribution not so 
much times, though I have noticed a large discrepancy. When I reply to a 
message by "reply all" sometimes I get several peoples names in the "to" 
area sometimes just one and the glass@bungi.com. If all of them get to me 
via bungi, whay isn't bungi alway included in the reply to function?

Just a meandering.

LInda
-----Original Message-----
From:	Vic [SMTP:vlg@worldnet.att.net]
Sent:	Wednesday, December 02, 1998 3:00 PM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Non Glass - server question


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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 04:49:16 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Karen K.'" <giapet@softhouse.com>, Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Only 2 Gadgets Needed
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 06:29:47 -0500
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"You only need two thinks in life...WD-40 to make things go and duct tape to make them stop." 

Unknown
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 05:10:04 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Soldering
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 17:44:10 -0500
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suzy@comcat.com wrote:
> 
> >suzy@comcat.com wrote:
> >>
> >> There was a thread a couple of days ago about soldering, and I remember
> >> someone saying those little "pits" (kind of a leathery look) were caused
> >> by soldering in a cold room.
> >>
> >> Today it happened to me, and the room wasn't cold, the iron was hot, the
> >> flux and solder were good and the iron was clean. Only variable -
> >> silvered foil (silver on both sides).
> >>
> >> Has anyone else experienced this problem?
> 
> Mike Savad replied:
> 
> >if it's little pits, as in little volcano like structures, then it's
> >usually caused by too much flux. the flux under the solder boils,
> >causing steams, causing pits.  any other kind of pit may be caused by
> >the solder seeping through too much.
> 
> Suzy sezs again:
> 
> Mike, I didn't explain well enough. The lines are all beautiful going on,
> not the too-much-flux splattering at all. As the solder sets, though,
> instead of setting nice & smooth, it kind of gets grey looking and a bit
> leathery. Help!
> 
> Suzanne


ahh ok... yeah that would be caused by the solder cooling rapidly. the
room temp should'nt make a difference. 20-40 degrees won't really phase
600 degree solder. are you using 50-50 or 60-40 for the bead?

i use 50-50 for the base coat and filler, and 60-40 for the bead. i
found that 50-50 sometimes will give me a orange peel like texture.
though unless it's really bad, most "normals" (non-stained-glassers),
probably won't notice it.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City


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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 06:37:20 1998
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From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "Linda Campbell" <lcbell@memach.com>, "'Karen K.'" <giapet@softhouse.com>,
Subject: Re: Only 2 Gadgets Needed
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:32:56 -0500
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Linda,
"ditto"  If the duct tape and WD-40 people went out of business, life as I
know it would be over.  :-)
Linda Jo
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: 'Karen K.' <giapet@softhouse.com>; Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 7:57 AM
Subject: Only 2 Gadgets Needed


>"You only need two thinks in life...WD-40 to make things go and duct tape
to make them stop."
>
>Unknown
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>


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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 07:13:38 1998
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X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro
From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: Pat Kelly <pkelly@n-link.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Menorah Pattern
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 09:25:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.12557.0>
References: <<1998Dec2.171329.0@[207.126.97.2]>>
Organization: SBWSA
Precedence: bulk

Geez Pat, has it come to this desperate plan of withholding a pattern in
order to get a bio?  I guess Toby is bigger than I thought.  Good luck, hope
you get them soon, the weekend is fast approaching.

Carol T

Pat Kelly wrote:

> Jean,
>
> I have a pattern for a panel. It will cost you a bio. email me your snail
> mail address and I'll have it in the mail.
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 07:43:01 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Soldering Problem Solved!
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:12:11 -0000
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Thank you Fellow Bungians for all your tips & advice.

Last night I did two things: increased the temp on my iron to almost FULL 
POWER (for Sparks), and threw out my old flux brush.

Looked good, back to normal, like satin!

Maybe using the flux brush too many times contaminated the flux. Maybe 
the iron wasn't hot enough. Anyway I'm grateful.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 09:32:28 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: RE: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:25:25 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.162525.0>
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In a message dated 12/3/98 12:26:26 AM, giapet@softhouse.com wrote:

>>Sparks card-carrying gadget freak
>>
>>(but I still fix everything around the house with a hammer, a
>screwdriver, and
>>a couple of pairs of pliers just like my mom & dad taught me.........)
>>----
>You forgot the Duct Tape....1001 uses
>Karen

HEY!!!!!! The duct tape goes without saying!!!!!!!! Same goes for the WD40,
the wire coat hangers, and the bobby pins!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 09:44:47 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  advice again? ;o)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:25:14 EST
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In a message dated 12/3/98 7:03:46 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>1.Flux stings!  (bad)

Uhhhhhhhh....... yeah.

> Why arent you supposed to drink while you solder?  I dont dip my fingers
>in my drink. 

Because the solder and flux vapors get in the air and the "fallout" falls into
your drink just like it falls on everything else.

Because you may not dip your fingers in your drink, but you do pick up the
container with your hand and get fluxy, soldery fingers all over it. If you're
drinking out of a reusable container, you go to wash the container and the
yuck in diluted form gets into your sink or dishwasher on your other dishes.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 10:22:14 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:25:26 EST
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In a message dated 12/3/98 3:30:14 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>Obviously not a tequila drinker!
>
>Tulsa Suzanne

Nope, can't say as I am. I try not to drink anything that has a raw dead bug
body floating in it........

That stuff is good for getting tacky wax, paint, flux residue, and probably
just about anything else off of your finished work though!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 10:39:31 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Fw: Menorah Pattern
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:58:27 -0500
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Message text written by "Jean N."
>My 8 yr old grand daughter decided she wants me to make her a Menorah
for
> her birthday (in 10 days!). Not a suncatcher -- a REAL one that she can=

> put candles in.
> =

> HELP! Does anyone out there have a pattern, or idea for this? I am at a=

> loss.  All suggestions will be greatly appreciated. (Mike, you are full=

> of ideas, how about you?)<

I do a stained glass menorah - one which hangs in a window.  But
it does not allow real candles.  Instead, I have hooks for hanging
the stained glass "flame" - one per sunset.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 11:03:34 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: advice again? ;o)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:58:32 -0500
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Message text written by Suzanne
>My problem....How am I going to display my sun catchers?<

Get 3 window frames with wooden mullions from your
local hardware store.  Attach them together with bi-directional
hinges so that they can stand up in a "Z" pattern.  Put cup hooks
in each of the spaces where the glass panes would be.
Hang suncatchers.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 11:14:47 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Mars, the Bringer of War
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:58:24 -0500
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Message text written by "Shakeel Abedi"
>Been to your site. The panel "Mars, Bringer of Wars is really very good.=

Crae to share how it was done?<

Designed as two autonomous panels which was then
plated together (ala Robert Oddy).  The round "shield"
with lance points and flags is one piece.  The more abstract
intersecting triangles with surrounding flames is the second
piece.  When plate together, the Martian "canals" show up.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 11:26:14 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Shows in SE Pa area
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:58:18 -0500
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Message text written by "suzy@comcat.com"
>Anyone know of any good spring craft shows in the southeast Penna. area =

that don't cost an arm & leg to rent space???<

Define "...don't cost an arm & leg..."  $10?  $100?  $1000?

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 11:52:41 1998
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From: GlassLites@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Chihuly Revisited
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:44:33 EST
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A few weeks ago the discuss here was about a TV show on the glass artist Dale
Chihuly.

Well, last week I was down in the Bahamas (partially paid for by my glass
sales) and I happened into the Atlantis Casino on Paradise Island. At the
entrance was a glass sculpture that looked like something Chihuly would do. In
the casino were 2 more pieces.

I asked, and sure enough, they were Dale Chihuly sculptues. 

I forgot all about gambling and just studied the pieces. One was an orange
collection of globes shaped like shells, another was a blue globe shape
comprised of flat disks, and the third was sort of like looking at up-side-
down milk bottles elongated this way and that. 

I was impressed. They look even better in real life than on TV.

Hope some of the rest of you get a chance to see the real thing, too.

Just thought I'd mention it here where others might understand my enthusiasm.
<G>


Cheryl Lowe
Glass Lites Studio
Southern New Jersey
GlassLites@aol.com
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 12:18:42 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Only 2 Gadgets Needed
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 10:46:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.54619.0>
References: <<199812031331.IAA25820@smtp.america.net>>
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Linda Letscher wrote:
> 
> Linda,
> "ditto"  If the duct tape and WD-40 people went out of business, life as I
> know it would be over.  :-)
> Linda Jo
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
> To: 'Karen K.' <giapet@softhouse.com>; Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 7:57 AM
> Subject: Only 2 Gadgets Needed
> 
> >"You only need two thinks in life...WD-40 to make things go and duct tape
> to make them stop."
> >
> >Unknown
> >----

yeah but then microsoft would buy them up, and then really rule the
world. unfortunally the tape would no longer stick right, and the oil
would'nt work right either. and you always have to go back to the
hardware store for your duct tape upgrades.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 13:03:48 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 10:36:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.5366.0>
References: <<1998Dec2.17427.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Karen K. wrote:
> 
> Vic,  I "used to " twist wire with a drill and had it snap one to many
> times.  I confess that I too am a gizmo junkie.  But I draw the line at
> that wood block called a nugget foiler....that's just plain stupid!!
> IMHO                    Karen
> >I feel the need to get serious regarding the recent thread related to
> >"twisting wire".
> >
> >Using a power drill to twist wire is an avenue paved for disaster.
> >The word "backlash" comes quickly into my mind.
> >
> >I have witnessed wire and cable snaps both in construction and during my
> >tours in the Navy.  Not very pretty sights.  Of course these cables were
> >slightly larger and under much more torque and/or tension than would be
> >used for tinned stained glass work.  This accounts for their forces being
> >able to slice the canopy off of an A3D jet and take a portion (no need to
> >discuss what portion) of the pilot with it. Or the two guys I ONCE KNEW
> >that were trying to pull a bulldozer out of a muddy ravine with cable and
> >winch.
> >
> >The optimum words I have seen used here are "a power drill at low speed".
> >That's sound advice and should go along with keep an eye (hopefully not
> >literally) on the tension on the wire.  Keep it in mind while your child
> is
> >tugging at your pants leg, the door chime rings, your best customer walks
> >in with a signed contract for that $100,000 project you had a bid on or
> the
> >pot is boiling over.
> >
> >Sorry but at this stage in my life I have become very important to
> myself.
> >Dowels and gizmos for me.
> >
> >Ciao
> >
> >Vic LaGreca
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> 
> ----
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i hav'nt tried it yet, but i made my own... some gizmos get lucky
sometimes. the ringstar pliers, mosaic cutters, alot of the morton
stuff, and other stuff, some of use use everyday. i wonder how many
other people have the inland hand foiler and crimper in a drawer
somewhere...

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Sparks" <Witchdoc3@aol.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re:  advice again? ;o)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:39:21 -0000
Message-ID: <199812031843.NAA05472@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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>
>In a message dated 12/3/98 7:03:46 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>>1.Flux stings!  (bad)
>
>Uhhhhhhhh....... yeah.
And gives a nice red rash.

>> Why arent you supposed to drink while you solder?  I dont dip my fingers
>>in my drink. 
>
>Because the solder and flux vapors get in the air and the "fallout" falls 
>into
>your drink just like it falls on everything else.
>
>Because you may not dip your fingers in your drink, but you do pick up the
>container with your hand and get fluxy, soldery fingers all over it. If 
>you're
>drinking out of a reusable container, you go to wash the container and the
>yuck in diluted form gets into your sink or dishwasher on your other dishes.

And, as happened just the other night, my glass buddy started to dip her 
flux brush into my coffee cup. Luckily she stopped in mid-air. 

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 13:20:23 1998
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From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:00:59 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.19059.0>
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In a message dated 98-12-03 00:12:39 EST, giapet@softhouse.com writes:

<< 
 Vic,  I "used to " twist wire with a drill and had it snap one to many
 times.  I confess that I too am a gizmo junkie.  But I draw the line at
 that wood block called a nugget foiler....that's just plain stupid!!
 IMHO                    Karen >>



Nugget foiler = my husband


Dianne
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 13:45:11 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:49:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.9491.0>
References: <<1998Dec3.162526.0>>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk

I thought the worm was in Mezcal, not Tequila?

Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 12/3/98 3:30:14 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> >Obviously not a tequila drinker!
> >
> >Tulsa Suzanne
> 
> Nope, can't say as I am. I try not to drink anything that has a raw dead bug
> body floating in it........
> 
> That stuff is good for getting tacky wax, paint, flux residue, and probably
> just about anything else off of your finished work though!
> 
> Sparks
> ----
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-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 13:47:51 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Shows in SE Pa area
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:40:15 -0000
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>Message text written by "suzy@comcat.com"
>>Anyone know of any good spring craft shows in the southeast Penna. area =
>
>that don't cost an arm & leg to rent space???<
>
>Define "...don't cost an arm & leg..."  $10?  $100?  $1000?
>
Hey Christie,

To me, anything more than $100 is an arm & a leg at this time in my life!
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 14:08:16 1998
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:58:10 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.195810.0>
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In a message dated 12/2/98 9:12:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
giapet@softhouse.com writes:

<< But I draw the line at
 that wood block called a nugget foiler....that's just plain stupid!!
 IMHO                    Karen >>

I made my own, I cut a groove in a piece of wood with the Dremel, and use it
to burnish
nuggets,  it's very handy if you're foiling a lot of nuggets which are
difficult.

It was a copy of the tool in the Delphi catalog.  I don't think a grooved
piece of wood
is patentable.
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 14:17:46 1998
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Fw: Menorah Pattern
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:08:31 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.20831.0>
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In a message dated 12/3/98 1:18:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
CncptThnkr@aol.com writes:

<< Not sure if this is a viable option, but can you make 9 (is that right?
Sorry
 if I am wrong) separate candle holders in different heights for her to line
 up. >>

Make the candle holders, get some copper tubing and use a tubing bending 
tool to fabricate attractive stems for the holders,   Embed the other end of
the
tubes into a base of concrete or mortar, you could use a tupperware container
as a mold.  

I saw this on the TV show "Home Matters", of course they didn't use stained
glass candle holders, and it wasn't a Menorah...  the effect was very nice,
tho.
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: advice again? ;o)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:34:12 -0500
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Or if you're really cheap (like me!),
have hubby go to a salvage yard for
old mullioned windows - I can get =

them here at practically give-away
prices.  Maybe you can even talk
him into cleaning/painting/preparing
them for the show! ;-)

Best regards

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: ps
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:18:24 -0500
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Suzy my dear, 
I sadly fear,
That you are losing it.
Keep making junk,
Don't lose your spunk,
Or you will have a fit.

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 4:19 AM
Subject: ps


>I want to make alot of money so I can buy alot of glass, and be prepared
>to kick some @ss at my next show!  
>Guess workin all these hours gets to ya, with no guarenteed paycheck!  
>Seriously, I will be happy to make my booth fee...and ...oh hell... Im
>lying...so I might as well shut up.
>
>
>Tulsa....suzanne
>-- 
>~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
>----
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 15:28:56 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Thu Dec  3 14:07:31 1998
Message-ID: <1998Dec4.114331.0>
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Dare I ask what catalog you ordered him from????
And do they come in pink?

Vic

		Nugget foiler = my husband


		Dianne
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 16:17:22 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:JJKIRBY@aol.com" <JJKIRBY@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:44:24 -0500
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Somebody a while back posted
a nugget burnishing trick that they
used.  Wrap the nuggets in foil, then
put in a plastic jar... close the jar
then shake it up good and voila,
burnished foil.  Sounded good to
me, and based on te enthusiasm
here, it must work.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 17:21:17 1998
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:41:30 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec4.04130.0>
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In a message dated 12/3/98 2:21:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com writes:

<< an easier way, if you have a lot of them to do: put the foil on them all.
 place in a jar. shake. >>

Does that REALLY work????

If yes, don't you get a lot of chips and scratches???
(My wife is my QC department, and she doesn't like me to use any nuggets
that are chipped or scratched)

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From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 17:53:47 -0800
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References: <<1998Dec3.195810.0>>
Precedence: bulk

At 02:58 PM 12/3/98 EST, JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
>
> I don't think a grooved piece of wood is patentable.
>----

Shhhhhhh...lawyers may be lurking :-)

Steve
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 19:15:06 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: foiling nuggets was: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:30:47 -0800
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>In a message dated 12/3/98 2:21:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com writes:
>
><< an easier way, if you have a lot of them to do: put the foil on them all.
> place in a jar. shake. >>
>
>Does that REALLY work????
>
>If yes, don't you get a lot of chips and scratches???
>(My wife is my QC department, and she doesn't like me to use any nuggets
>that are chipped or scratched)

Yes it really does work.  I've found that using a plastic margarine or
yogurt tub is easier on the ears (and the nuggets).  I use no more than 1/2
foiled nuggets and 1/2 "naked" nuggets to stop the foil from catching on
each other.  

Tell the QC department you don't get chips and scratches because you are
gently and quickly tossing the nuggets (more like shaking salad dressing),
that you're not going to shake the shit out of them (playing the maraccas),
and besides that, you're using a plastic container.  

Another secret...use 3/16" foil and pull it slightly as you foil the
nugget...this stretching seems to reduce the amount of excess foil that
needs to conform to the nugget.  

Cheers


Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 20:00:59 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <JJKIRBY@aol.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:58:26 -0000
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>In a message dated 12/3/98 2:21:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com writes:
>
><< an easier way, if you have a lot of them to do: put the foil on them all.
> place in a jar. shake. >>
>
>Does that REALLY work????
>
>If yes, don't you get a lot of chips and scratches???
>(My wife is my QC department, and she doesn't like me to use any nuggets
>that are chipped or scratched)

Yes, it really works. No, they don't get chipped or scratched if you use 
a plastic jar. I use an old Tums bottle.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Dec  3 21:51:35 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: J B <Beadnik3@webtv.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on drilling holes in glass
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:20:20 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.192020.0>
Precedence: bulk

I just got some diamond drill bits from
a jewelry supplier that cost about $4 each...
about twice the price I usually pay.  They
were called something like "triple ripple"
and I was told they would last a good deal
longer than the others.  Well, I'll have you
know they are fabulous.  No need to buy
a drill press with these!  Drills through =

glass like butter and no skipping around.
I love them!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 02:25:39 1998
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "Bungi Group" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: e-mail address for Glass Patterns Quarterly
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:27:42 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.02742.0>
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Too soon I opened my mouth.

 The gpq@iglou.com address of the Glass Patterns Quarterly is also wrong.


Shakeel Abedi
shakeel@tm.net.my
Shakeel Abedi
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: Shakeel Abedi <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: Bungi Group <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: e-mail address for Glass Patterns Quarterly


>I found it.
>
>gpq@iglou.com
>
>Have ent a mail there and it has not bounced back, I presume they have
>received.
>
>Thanks
>
>Shakeel Abedi
>shakeel@tm.net.my
>Shakeel Abedi
>Rainbow Stained Glass
>104, Jalan Mersing
>86000 Kluang
>Malaysia
>Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shakeel Abedi <shakeel@tm.net.my>
>To: Bungi Group <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 2:12 PM
>Subject: e-mail address for Glass Patterns Quarterly
>
>
>>Guys
>>
>>I have trying to send mail to Glass Patterns Quarterly. (gpq@aol.com) But
>>mail returns with message that address is invalid.
>>
>>Does anyone know anything about this?
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>
>>Shakeel Abedi
>>shakeel@tm.net.my
>>Shakeel Abedi
>>Rainbow Stained Glass
>>104, Jalan Mersing
>>86000 Kluang
>>Malaysia
>>Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 02:45:41 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: good news...
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 04:17:36 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec3.221736.0>
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at my house today.  My husband has been hired by American Airlines, and
starts Monday!  YEA!!!!!!!!!  Pa here I come!!  Flight benefits start in
3 months! Yeeehaaaa Cowboy!  (as they say)

Put in 19 hours today...got alot made.  Gotta go to bed now.  

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 04:26:20 1998
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: e-mail address for Glass Patterns Quarterly
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:33:00 +0000
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>  The gpq@iglou.com address of the Glass Patterns Quarterly is also 
wrong.

Uh, I point out perhaps all too often that the Guild maintains a web 
version of its Sources Guide at http://www.igga.org/guide.htm that's 
updated almost every day.

Since I as the Guild's volunteer web master regularly check every 
link on that site, I discover pretty quickly when email addresses 
and/or web links aren't working. Glass Pattern Quarterly's email 
address glitched last week, so I did the usual: I sent them a smail 
letter telling them that and asking for their new address. It's

gpqmag@aol.com

Albert
 
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 06:30:04 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Getting more and more off topic : Only 2 Gadgets Needed
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:00:39 EST
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Also sprach Mike Savad:

>yeah but then microsoft would buy them up, and then really rule the
>world. unfortunally the tape would no longer stick right, and the oil
>would'nt work right either. and you always have to go back to the
>hardware store for your duct tape upgrades.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! Reminds me of something I once read: If
Microsoft made cars, they'd crash 4 times a day and you'd think that was
normal. And every time you went to the gas station, you'd have to upgrade your
engine to run on the new gas.....


Sparks
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 06:52:35 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Tequila, was Re: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:00:59 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec4.14059.0>
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Also sprach shyguy@vdot.net:

>I thought the worm was in Mezcal, not Tequila?

Dredging up memories from my youth in Far Northern Mexico (i.e. southern
California):

Mezcal is the plant that tequila is made from. The mezcal worm (actually the
caterpillar of the butterfly that fertilizes the plant, like monarchs on
milkweed) lives on the plant. At some point, someone got the bright idea of
testing the strength of the tequila by dropping a live worm into the bottle.
Supposedly, if the tequila is good and strong, the worm will be dead (or at
least unconscious) before it hits bottom. If the worm is still wiggling when
it hits bottom, the tequila is "wimpy."

Some "real Mexican tequila" is sold with a label that reads "con guzano" -
"with the worm." Traditionally, when "real hombres" are out drinking, the guy
who takes the last shot from the bottle has to eat the worm.


Sparks (I forget how to say that in Spanish and don't have my "diccionario"
handy - Daniel, help me out!)
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 07:26:40 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: RE: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:00:58 EST
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Vic's enquiring mind wants to know:

>Dare I ask what catalog you ordered him from????
>And do they come in pink?
>
>Vic
>
>>		Nugget foiler = my husband
>>
>>
>>		Dianne

What I want to know is: Does he look good in a tutu? If so, Patrick may have a
ready-made dancing partner!



Sparks,
waiting excitedly for the debut of "les Ballets Trocaderos des Verriers"
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 08:33:13 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:51:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec4.55123.0>
References: <<1998Dec4.04130.0>>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk

I use a plastic Tupperware/Rubbermaid dessert size 'bowl' with cover. I
only shake side to side, rather than up and down. This keeps the
nugget's edges with the foil on as the surface that gets the impact. It
may take a little longer than 'making a martini', but none of the
nuggets has been marked up so far.	
-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Non glass, but I could use some was: Tequila, was Re: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:30:19 -0500
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and more:
Q. Why is there a worm in a tequila bottle?
A. There isn't! There is no worm in tequila. Repeat, there is no
worm in tequila. The worm is found, quite dead and pickled, only
in mezcal.

Q. Okay, what's the difference between Tequila and
mezcal?
A. Tequila is a mezcal, but mezcal is not Tequila.
Mezcal is a generic name used for booze made from
various species of an agave plant called, ironically,
mezcal. Unlike mezcal, Tequila is produced under strict
Mexican government regulations and can be made only
from the blue agave grown in specified growing areas. In
this sense the rules for tequila are the same as the rules
for champagne or cognac, i.e., specific plant and specific
growing area.

-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 09:54:25 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Tequila, was Re: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:28:26 -0500
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References: <<1998Dec4.14059.0>>
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>From the Jose Cuervo FAQ:
Q. What is Tequila made from?
                A. From a high desert plant called the blue agave.
                Technically, the agave azul tequilana Weber.The
Weber part comes from a Mexican botanist who was also fond of
big, round grills. Kidding. The blue agave is not a cactus, but rather
a member of the amaryllis (lily) family of plants. 
 
-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 10:33:34 1998
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@comcat.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Soldering Pits
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:11:08 -0800 (PST)
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Susanne:  Those soldering pits can be caused by one of two things:  (1)
Flux bubbling; or (2) Small contiminate in the solder.  I found it
interesting to note while looking at an original piece of Tiffany's work
that he also had the same problem.  I asked and the answer I gave you is
what I was told.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 11:37:53 1998
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From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: <Witchdoc3@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Tequila, was Re: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:12:30 -0000
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OK! As I see it now there is NO worm in Tequila except for when this IS a
worm in it! Have I got that right?

Very informative place this Bungi!

Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com <Witchdoc3@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: 04 December 1998 15:02
Subject: Tequila, was Re: Introduction & Foiler


>
>Also sprach shyguy@vdot.net:
>
>>I thought the worm was in Mezcal, not Tequila?
>
>Dredging up memories from my youth in Far Northern Mexico (i.e. southern
>California):
>
>Mezcal is the plant that tequila is made from. The mezcal worm (actually
the
>caterpillar of the butterfly that fertilizes the plant, like monarchs on
>milkweed) lives on the plant. At some point, someone got the bright idea of
>testing the strength of the tequila by dropping a live worm into the
bottle.
>Supposedly, if the tequila is good and strong, the worm will be dead (or at
>least unconscious) before it hits bottom. If the worm is still wiggling
when
>it hits bottom, the tequila is "wimpy."
>
>Some "real Mexican tequila" is sold with a label that reads "con guzano" -
>"with the worm." Traditionally, when "real hombres" are out drinking, the
guy
>who takes the last shot from the bottle has to eat the worm.
>
>
>Sparks (I forget how to say that in Spanish and don't have my "diccionario"
>handy - Daniel, help me out!)
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 12:37:35 1998
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From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: o/t  was    Re: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:21:12 EST
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In a message dated 98-12-04 10:27:39 EST, you write:

<< 
 >>		Nugget foiler = my husband
 >>
 >>
 >>		Dianne

 
 What I want to know is: Does he look good in a tutu? If so, Patrick may have
a
 ready-made dancing partner!
 
 
 
 Sparks, >>




Hey guys, my dear darling husband may not be much into the normal macho he-man
stuff but he does not wear a tutu.   :)

l
l
l
l
l
l
l


But he has been known to wear tights.  

l
l
l
l
l
l


He does medieval reenactment. He can gobber you with a sword, a fencing blade
or a bow & arrow. Take your pick.     :)

And he loves to dance, thank you very much   :)


Dianne
----
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 13:00:34 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" <atf@socent.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on drilling holes in glass
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:37:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec4.9370.0>
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I've had numerous queries about
the Triple Ripple diamond drill
bits, so I'll just post the supplier
info here.  They cost $4.20/ea for
2mm size.

Ackley's
3230 N. Stone
Colorado Springs,CO  80907
(719) 633-1153

No FAX, no email, no 800#.  Talk
about down-home!  They do mail
order though.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 15:14:23 1998
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From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Tequila/Mezcal
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 16:48:35 -0800
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Tequila/Mezcal - Whichever.  Who cares which one has the worm in it as
long as it doesn't ruin my marguerita.

Carol T

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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 16:03:47 1998
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From: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@snet.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: GPQ Address
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:54:16 -0500
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Hi Folks,
 This is the address I have for Glass Patterns Quarterly <gpq@iglou.com>

 I hope this helps.

  Peace,
  Tim Byrnes
----
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 16:14:28 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <PDRUSS@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: o/t  was    Re: In defense of GIZMOS
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:55:50 -0600
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The Prima Ballerina never ..... never has a partner.
-----Original Message-----
From: PDRUSS@aol.com <PDRUSS@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 2:56 PM
Subject: o/t was Re: In defense of GIZMOS


>
>
>In a message dated 98-12-04 10:27:39 EST, you write:
>
><<
> >> Nugget foiler = my husband
> >>
> >>
> >> Dianne
>
>
> What I want to know is: Does he look good in a tutu? If so, Patrick may
have
>a
> ready-made dancing partner!
>
>
>
> Sparks, >>
>
>
>
>
>Hey guys, my dear darling husband may not be much into the normal macho
he-man
>stuff but he does not wear a tutu.   :)
>
>l
>l
>l
>l
>l
>l
>l
>
>
>But he has been known to wear tights.
>
>l
>l
>l
>l
>l
>l
>
>
>He does medieval reenactment. He can gobber you with a sword, a fencing
blade
>or a bow & arrow. Take your pick.     :)
>
>And he loves to dance, thank you very much   :)
>
>
>Dianne
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

----
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 18:21:42 1998
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From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "Carol Tombro" <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:27:43 -0500
Message-ID: <199812050126.UAA19884@smtp.america.net>
Precedence: bulk

Carol, Plus just think of that extra protine in your drink.
Eljay
-----Original Message-----
From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:24 PM
Subject: Tequila/Mezcal


>Tequila/Mezcal - Whichever.  Who cares which one has the worm in it as
>long as it doesn't ruin my marguerita.
>
>Carol T
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


----
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 19:25:45 1998
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From: "Robert G. and Rebecca T. Wickline" <wickline@i2020.net>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: Tequila, was Re: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 21:31:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec4.163146.0>
References: <<1998Dec4.14059.0>>
Organization: Personal
Precedence: bulk

those of us who are Spanish teachers could probably help you out in your
linguistic lapse.  El hombre que tomó la última bebida tiene que comer el
gusano.  Is that what you needed?  (he who drinks the last.....) Maybe we need to
learn to do Flamenco too.  That would help get rid of little pieces of glass.
                                                Becky


Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:

> Also sprach shyguy@vdot.net:
>
> >I thought the worm was in Mezcal, not Tequila?
>
> Dredging up memories from my youth in Far Northern Mexico (i.e. southern
> California):
>
> Mezcal is the plant that tequila is made from. The mezcal worm (actually the
> caterpillar of the butterfly that fertilizes the plant, like monarchs on
> milkweed) lives on the plant. At some point, someone got the bright idea of
> testing the strength of the tequila by dropping a live worm into the bottle.
> Supposedly, if the tequila is good and strong, the worm will be dead (or at
> least unconscious) before it hits bottom. If the worm is still wiggling when
> it hits bottom, the tequila is "wimpy."
>
> Some "real Mexican tequila" is sold with a label that reads "con guzano" -
> "with the worm." Traditionally, when "real hombres" are out drinking, the guy
> who takes the last shot from the bottle has to eat the worm.
>
> Sparks (I forget how to say that in Spanish and don't have my "diccionario"
> handy - Daniel, help me out!)
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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----
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 19:45:56 1998
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From: "Ed Rogers" <ejr929@lvcm.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:53:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec4.105343.0>
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Why don't  you people stop this ridiculous waste of time and energy,
chatting about silliness that has absolutely nothing to do with the craft of
stained glass?!?!
The purpose of a list like this is to discuss SG issues, help each other
out, and so forth.  The nonsense that I've witnessed for the few days I've
been on this site makes me wonder whether you really care about SG, or just
want to spend your time with corny, inane chitchat.

I hope this group gets back on track!!!

******************************
  E-mail from: Ed Rogers
  EJR929@LVCM.COM
******************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
To: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal


>Carol, Plus just think of that extra protine in your drink.
>Eljay
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:24 PM
>Subject: Tequila/Mezcal
>
>
>>Tequila/Mezcal - Whichever.  Who cares which one has the worm in it as
>>long as it doesn't ruin my marguerita.
>>
>>Carol T
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 19:52:06 1998
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: w/worm.......
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:12:12 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec4.111212.0>
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Not for those of you who are vegetarians, nor for those of you who do not
eat "tref"!

enjoy, H

----
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 20:58:42 1998
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X-Path: fair.net!andor
From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "Ed Rogers" <ejr929@lvcm.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:23:00 -0500
Message-ID: <199812050421.XAA04500@smtp.america.net>
Precedence: bulk

Ed,
Lighten up a little, it is the holidays.  You know ho ho ho!!
Eljay
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Rogers <ejr929@lvcm.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal


>Why don't  you people stop this ridiculous waste of time and energy,
>chatting about silliness that has absolutely nothing to do with the craft
of
>stained glass?!?!
>The purpose of a list like this is to discuss SG issues, help each other
>out, and so forth.  The nonsense that I've witnessed for the few days I've
>been on this site makes me wonder whether you really care about SG, or just
>want to spend your time with corny, inane chitchat.
>
>I hope this group gets back on track!!!
>
>******************************
>  E-mail from: Ed Rogers
>  EJR929@LVCM.COM
>******************************
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
>To: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:40 PM
>Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
>
>
>>Carol, Plus just think of that extra protine in your drink.
>>Eljay
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
>>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>>Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:24 PM
>>Subject: Tequila/Mezcal
>>
>>
>>>Tequila/Mezcal - Whichever.  Who cares which one has the worm in it as
>>>long as it doesn't ruin my marguerita.
>>>
>>>Carol T
>>>
>>>----
>>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>>
>>
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 21:23:43 1998
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From: Goldpaws <gmanning@banet.net>
To: Ed Rogers <ejr929@lvcm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 23:44:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec4.18440.0>
References: <<1998Dec4.105343.0>>
Precedence: bulk

A little "silliness" never hurts anyone!!
Goldpaws

Ed Rogers wrote:
> 
> Why don't  you people stop this ridiculous waste of time and energy,
> chatting about silliness that has absolutely nothing to do with the craft of
> stained glass?!?!
> The purpose of a list like this is to discuss SG issues, help each other
> out, and so forth.  The nonsense that I've witnessed for the few days I've
> been on this site makes me wonder whether you really care about SG, or just
> want to spend your time with corny, inane chitchat.
> 
> I hope this group gets back on track!!!
> 
> ******************************
>   E-mail from: Ed Rogers
>   EJR929@LVCM.COM
> ******************************
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
> To: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
> 
> >Carol, Plus just think of that extra protine in your drink.
> >Eljay
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
> >To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> >Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:24 PM
> >Subject: Tequila/Mezcal
> >
> >
> >>Tequila/Mezcal - Whichever.  Who cares which one has the worm in it as
> >>long as it doesn't ruin my marguerita.
> >>
> >>Carol T
> >>
> >>----
> >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >>
> >
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 22:57:39 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Howard <weaver51@teleport.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: my show **and inane chatter 
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 00:27:47 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec4.182747.0>
References: <<1998Dec4.111212.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Howard wrote:
> 
> Not for those of you who are vegetarians, nor for those of you who do not
> eat "tref"!
> 
> enjoy, H


Ok Howard...using those big words again, what's "tref"?

Thanks everybody for the encouragement, and advice.  Cant wait to get
pictures of everything and post them on a webpage so y'all can see what
I managed.  Im even thinking *Spectrum might just want to send me a t
shirt or something for *my fanlamp pattern! ;o)

Sure had a hard time keeping my suncatchers prices down...as I just kept
adding too them...one started out as a 7 peice star tree ornament...and
ended up as a large 3 stared suncatcher....about 20 peices. Ended up
with more ideas then I had time to accomplish.  Oh well...got another
show in February...another small one dayer.  Think that is about my
speed for awhile.  This next show is in small town Oklahoma.  It is the
big town Osyter fryand arts and crafts festival! Of all things in
Southwest Oklahoma!  I will stay at my parents...oh, and it is a $10
booth fee! lol...cant lose...setting my sights high dont ya know?
It will be alot of fun...will just have to try not to be next to the
polyester quilts!!  I know alot of those old ladies!  Their sewing could
knock your socks off...if they could just throw away that bottemless box
of fabric from 1971.  Makes me shudder to think of those dresses I
wore...

Thanks again...think it is all coming together well.  Even lost about 3
pounds!  My husband said "well I guess so, you've given up eating and
sleeping!"

Tulsa Suzanne...I have this feeling Ed is just gonna love me!

Thank goodness my husband came out into my studio several days ago and
asked if there was anything he could do to help!  ;o) Is there ever!
Gave him a lesson in foiling...and he was a great sport when I would
return a peice and ask him to redo it! ;o)  We spent several full
days...like that.  Me cutting all day long...and handing it over to him
to foil...then the next day I would solder alllllll day and night.  I
can cut 3-9 in the time it takes me to solder 1!  Is it just me? 

Today, I soldered all day..then poured 4 stones after dinner.

All that is left production wise is solder one more fan...
now I can price, and pack.  We are almost there!  Can not even imagine
what I would have done without my husband foiling for me.  Saved me!

Sunday is the day.
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Fri Dec  4 23:14:26 1998
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From: MISGLAS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal (Ed Rogers)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 01:24:49 EST
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Life is too short to be so uptight, Ed!   This is harmless fun.  You can
always use the delete key.   Kathi 
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 00:20:29 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Gothcha  Ed Rogers
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:29:53 -0600
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Hello Ed. How about a bio?

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 02:09:07 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: hey  ...
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 02:03:44 -0600
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Thanks again.  So many really great people ready and willing to help
each other.  I appreciate it.  

Arnold...Im still working on my response to you, pal! ;o) Junk! well I
never!

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 04:12:54 1998
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From: Lezliesart@aol.com
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Subject: Thanks for all the help & looking for a kiln temp controll
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:27:14 EST
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 Just wanted to say thanks for all the helpful advice on my drilling problems.
I think II'll be able to lick the problem as soon as the new gadgets arrive!
It's great to have a resource like this instead of just "shooting in the dark"
and wasting a lot of time and $$ on gadgets that don't work as well as I'd
hoped. 
 Now for an even bigger question. Does anyone know a good kiln controller that
can be added to a small kiln that isn't too expensive and is capable of going
up to 23,000 degrees? ( I also do porcelain so I need the high temp) I saw one
in the Arrow Springs catalogue that looked like it would work but it was
almost $400, just a little more than I can spend at the moment.
I overfired 2 kiln loads of Christmas pins last week and need to set up some
way to automatically shut off the kiln when it reaches the right temp. I'm
tend to get distracted by other projects and have absolutely no sense of time
so keeping an eagle eye on the kiln just isn't working for me.
 I'm also looking for a chart that correlates actual kiln temps with the
"cone"numbers that are used in ceramic firing. I know I've seen a chart
somewhere but can't seem to find it in any of the books I have.  
    Lezlie
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 05:46:26 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: looking for a kiln temp controller
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:47:53 +0000
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>  Does anyone know a good kiln controller that
> can be added to a small kiln that isn't too expensive and is capable of going
> up to 23,000 degrees? 

You must mean 2300 degrees, right? Cone 8 or 9 if I remember rightly. 
I think that at 23000 degrees whatever you're firing would vaporize, 
not just puddle. <smile>

For firing questions, I'd suggest you chat with Marty Daily at Centre 
DeVerre. His web site's http://www.cdvkiln.com/ and his email's 
info@cdvkiln.com  He's a font of information on firing glass and/or 
ceramics.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 06:06:41 1998
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: KNICKERS IN A KNOT?  Tequila/Mezcal
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:44:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.24418.0>
References: <<199812050421.XAA04500@smtp.america.net>>
Organization: @Home Network
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Ed,

Yes, don't get your knickers in a knot-we are all human-most of us
anyway, and the Nov/Dec/Jan show or gallery season has most of us
putting in hours like Suzanne has described.  Ringie, with lack of
sleep, production schedules, delivery orders, show schedules, etc.  This
list and a couple of others, let us get to know each other and blow off
steam and frustration.  (or god why did that last piece of glass for
that panel snap, and out of the particular color).  So we all get off
track from time to time.

If you want just cold hard glass info, the library, and IGGA site has
plenty books to read.  No straying off track, cute comments, or any of
the other fun things that makes this e-mail list worth while for most
people. Maybe that is more appropriate for you, than a real live mail
list with real live people???

With warm Christmas thought for all,

Lee Boe
RAin-Boe's Creations

Linda Letscher wrote:
> 
> Ed,
> Lighten up a little, it is the holidays.  You know ho ho ho!!
> Eljay
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Rogers <ejr929@lvcm.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
> 
> >Why don't  you people stop this ridiculous waste of time and energy,
> >chatting about silliness that has absolutely nothing to do with the craft
> of
> >stained glass?!?!
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 06:37:09 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:07:53 -0500
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Hi Ed....
	Welcome to Bungi.... hang in there  a little.  The information that you
can get from this list is priceless.... try this:  ask a question and just
watch how fast you will get wonderful answers and supportive responses.
You will be hearing from some of the most talented people in stained glass
I know of.......  really!!  Anything.... from twisting wire to chemical
analysis.......  finding glass and patterns to copywrite information and
workshop safety....  It is all here.

Barbara
	


>X-Path: lvcm.com!ejr929
>X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
>From: "Ed Rogers" <ejr929@lvcm.com>
>To: <glass@bungi.com>
>Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
>Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:53:43 -0800
>
>Why don't  you people stop this ridiculous waste of time and energy,
>chatting about silliness that has absolutely nothing to do with the craft of
>stained glass?!?!
>The purpose of a list like this is to discuss SG issues, help each other
>out, and so forth.  The nonsense that I've witnessed for the few days I've
>been on this site makes me wonder whether you really care about SG, or just
>want to spend your time with corny, inane chitchat.
>
>I hope this group gets back on track!!!
>
>******************************
>  E-mail from: Ed Rogers
>  EJR929@LVCM.COM
>******************************
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
>To: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:40 PM
>Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
>
>
>>Carol, Plus just think of that extra protine in your drink.
>>Eljay
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
>>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>>Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:24 PM
>>Subject: Tequila/Mezcal
>>
>>
>>>Tequila/Mezcal - Whichever.  Who cares which one has the worm in it as
>>>long as it doesn't ruin my marguerita.
>>>
>>>Carol T
>>>
>>>----
>>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>>
>>
>>
>>----
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>
>
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 06:52:45 1998
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X-Path: city-net.com!dany
From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: framing round panel - end of story
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:29:59 -0500
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Hi everyone!

THANKS so much everbody who has contributed to my list of options on how to
frame a round panel.  On this one I've framed with H came, and then strung
ladderchain around - it looks very nice!
Thank you very much!

I will probably try all of the other suggestions in time - this one I could
do with materials at hand!

Have a great weekend - everyone!

Dany
Software Consultant
http://www.city-net.com/~dany




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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 07:08:14 1998
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Subject: inane chatter subtitled how come i love all you guys (a true confession)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:19:32 EST
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Hey guys,
 
Need to put my 2 cents in worth re: sticking or not sticking to the subject
(or being stuck by the subject).  I found bungi on Mike's site and started
getting your postings.  I never would have said a word had it not been for the
"inane chatter", it made me realize you guys are real people, have a life, own
duct tape, appreciate ballet, aren't scared by slightly perverse jokes (K, ya
did admit the tutu is kinda perverse) and are always willing to help beginners
or anyone who knows less than you do. I was so nervous the first time I
posted, waited for the gates of hell to open because I was "intruding", you
guys helped me get over that feeling very quickly.  I don't work on glass
because it is a business, I do it for the pure enjoyment, it is a vacation
from reality.  Once you have made the initial investment, gotten the toys and
the gizmos you can spend hours with very little money invested.  Ya'll (did I
spell that right? I am a yankee) are part of the enjoyment of working with
glass.  

Ok, gotta go, am headed out to lunch, bearing sun catchers as gifts for the
unsuspecting.  (hey, these aren't some cutsey things, very geometric, very me)

Hugs and kisses from the guys at the Instant Karma Bar and Grill,

Pat 
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 07:59:04 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:35:30 -0500
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Poor Ed.....Guess someone else ate his worm...or something

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Rogers <ejr929@lvcm.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal


>Why don't  you people stop this ridiculous waste of time and energy,
>chatting about silliness that has absolutely nothing to do with the craft
of
>stained glass?!?!
>The purpose of a list like this is to discuss SG issues, help each other
>out, and so forth.  The nonsense that I've witnessed for the few days I've
>been on this site makes me wonder whether you really care about SG, or just
>want to spend your time with corny, inane chitchat.
>
>I hope this group gets back on track!!!
>
>******************************
>  E-mail from: Ed Rogers
>  EJR929@LVCM.COM
>******************************
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
>To: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:40 PM
>Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
>
>
>>Carol, Plus just think of that extra protine in your drink.
>>Eljay
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
>>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>>Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:24 PM
>>Subject: Tequila/Mezcal
>>
>>
>>>Tequila/Mezcal - Whichever.  Who cares which one has the worm in it as
>>>long as it doesn't ruin my marguerita.
>>>
>>>Carol T
>>>
>>>----
>>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>>
>>
>>
>>----
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>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>----
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 08:17:26 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: hey  ...
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:52:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.45237.0>
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Suzanne....Well what else rhymes with "spunk" ???  Good luck...You'll be a
winner

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 5:15 AM
Subject: hey ...


>Thanks again.  So many really great people ready and willing to help
>each other.  I appreciate it.
>
>Arnold...Im still working on my response to you, pal! ;o) Junk! well I
>never!
>
>Suzanne
>--
>~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
>----
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>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 08:17:45 1998
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Thanks for all the help & looking for a kiln temp controll
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:57:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.45758.0>
Precedence: bulk

Of course you mean 2300, however timers are expensive....The least expensive
way to go is to buy the smallest pocket sized oven timer you can find, set
it to the time you want and stick it in your pocket.  When it dings, turn
the kiln off.  As far as temperature is concerned....can't help you
there....

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: Lezliesart@aol.com <Lezliesart@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 7:23 AM
Subject: Thanks for all the help & looking for a kiln temp controll


> Just wanted to say thanks for all the helpful advice on my drilling
problems.
>I think II'll be able to lick the problem as soon as the new gadgets
arrive!
>It's great to have a resource like this instead of just "shooting in the
dark"
>and wasting a lot of time and $$ on gadgets that don't work as well as I'd
>hoped.
> Now for an even bigger question. Does anyone know a good kiln controller
that
>can be added to a small kiln that isn't too expensive and is capable of
going
>up to 23,000 degrees? ( I also do porcelain so I need the high temp) I saw
one
>in the Arrow Springs catalogue that looked like it would work but it was
>almost $400, just a little more than I can spend at the moment.
>I overfired 2 kiln loads of Christmas pins last week and need to set up
some
>way to automatically shut off the kiln when it reaches the right temp. I'm
>tend to get distracted by other projects and have absolutely no sense of
time
>so keeping an eagle eye on the kiln just isn't working for me.
> I'm also looking for a chart that correlates actual kiln temps with the
>"cone"numbers that are used in ceramic firing. I know I've seen a chart
>somewhere but can't seem to find it in any of the books I have.
>    Lezlie
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 08:31:14 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!sglass1
From: "jean pay" <sglass1@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: scratched glass
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:13:05 PST
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.15135.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello to all !

Where to start? I bought my glass. (didn't take your advice on choosing 
the glass ) :(  Now I made a deer. Oval turned out great!
I mean it WAS oval, no gaps,grain going the correct way. 
Well the med amber is scratched all over.I never noticed untill I hung 
in my window. I was so happy thinking it had turned out so well. Now I 
want to bash It against brick wall :(  My question is are all glass 
stores the same? I have gone back to the glass store and noticed that 
the stuff in lger 12x12" 3/4 of it was scratched most just little spots 
but some was really yucky. I looked at other stuff smaller like 8x10 in 
other displays and even some of that was scratched . I didn't bother 
checking lg stuff in back. (though they don't let you touch any way)  
Soooo do all of you have to inspect every piece front and back (this 
piece had a blob of glass on the front also ) before purchasing ? or 
what? At the time i wasn't using a light table. since then took a 
weekend and now I have a door w/light on 4x4's. next i guess i'll go 
thru my glass and see what good and whats scratched. Oh well back to
the cutting board. :) Jeanne 

______________________________________________________
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From: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Bad foil job
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:23:35 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.52335.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

While foiling several pieces the foil did not center.
I was wondering, must I refoil the entire piece or
can I just cut out the bad section and refoil that
section overlapping on both sides?

Any comments greatly appreciated.

Jim

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 09:05:45 1998
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From: "Kathryn C. Kelly" <kkelly@hal-pc.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Holiday Party
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 09:36:32 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.33632.0>
Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users
Precedence: bulk

Greetings!

I was wondering if any other Houston area Bungi folks for like to get
together to exchange some holiday cheer and glass tips?

Kathryn
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 09:06:36 1998
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X-Path: early.com!hugsal
From: Ann Hughes <hugsal@early.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: A thanks!!
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 10:16:02 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981205101602.007c6410@pop.early.com>
Precedence: bulk

I would like to thank everyone who wrote back to me on helping me with a
piece of their favorite glass to be added to my friendship glass quilt.  I
really appreciate all the responses.  It is going to be spectacular when it
iis done.

Thanks for all the email I watch going by on hints to do things.  Some have
been pretty interesting and helpful and I plan on using some of the ideas.

If anyone else is interested in exchanging glass yet with me to help me out
I would appreciate it very much.  I still need more to do this quilt and
rather than me picking some glass out I would much rather have your
favorites added to it.  Please email me back if you are interested.  I
would most like to have some overseas pieces as well.  

Thanks to all again!!!!!!!

Ann

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 09:16:07 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Breaking Glass
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 10:18:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.51839.0>
References: <<199812051239.HAA07445@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

I have a project right now that calls for frosted "Beach Glass"  I need
to break up 5-10 pounds of glass scrap into 1" to 2" inch pieces.  I
have a friend (Lapidary) who has a big vibrating tumbler, and will
tumble it for me.  How is the best (safest) way to crunch up a good
amount of glass?  Even thought of getting some kind of close weave bag
(cloth) and running the car over it, but some might 'shard' into a
tire.  I don't have a sledge hammer, and don't really want to 'crush' it
, just get it into smaller pieces.

TIA

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 09:50:00 1998
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X-Path: kos.net!chrisg
From: chrisg@kos.net (Chris Gundersen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Math quiz?
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:58:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <m0zmL2i-0001ryC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

Had a small problem that I'm sure someone with math skills could assist me with.
I want to build a lampshade with x number of sides and know the diameter at
the top and bottom. How can I calculate the angle that I must cut all the
sides so that everything will line up properly. I hate to make cutouts of
cardboard when I know this is the computer age.
Thanks Chris

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 10:08:20 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: jean pay <sglass1@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: scratched glass
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 12:01:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.713.0>
References: <<1998Dec5.15135.0>>
Precedence: bulk

jean pay wrote:
> 
> Hello to all !
> 
> Where to start? I bought my glass. (didn't take your advice on choosing
> the glass ) :(  Now I made a deer. Oval turned out great!
> I mean it WAS oval, no gaps,grain going the correct way.
> Well the med amber is scratched all over.I never noticed untill I hung
> in my window. I was so happy thinking it had turned out so well. Now I
> want to bash It against brick wall :(  My question is are all glass
> stores the same? I have gone back to the glass store and noticed that
> the stuff in lger 12x12" 3/4 of it was scratched most just little spots
> but some was really yucky. I looked at other stuff smaller like 8x10 in
> other displays and even some of that was scratched . I didn't bother
> checking lg stuff in back. (though they don't let you touch any way)
> Soooo do all of you have to inspect every piece front and back (this
> piece had a blob of glass on the front also ) before purchasing ? or
> what? At the time i wasn't using a light table. since then took a
> weekend and now I have a door w/light on 4x4's. next i guess i'll go
> thru my glass and see what good and whats scratched. Oh well back to
> the cutting board. :) Jeanne
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


was your glass armstrong? i've seen alot of armstrong packed tightly in
crates. they rub against each other. if their 8x12's are scratched, it's
the stores fault. because usually 8x12's don't come that way, they're
cut from larger sheets. where as armstrong will usually come as a 12x12
for some reason. 

it's difficult to remember to look for scratches at the store. i'll
usually forget to do it. when cleaning the glass i look for scratches
and mark it with a white pen, usually with a circle or an arrow. this
way i know where to avoid. 

and if alot of it's scratched, you might want to mention it the owner
somehow... 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 10:26:36 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bad foil job
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 12:04:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.740.0>
References: <<1998Dec5.52335.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Jim Gonzalez wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> While foiling several pieces the foil did not center.
> I was wondering, must I refoil the entire piece or
> can I just cut out the bad section and refoil that
> section overlapping on both sides?
> 
> Any comments greatly appreciated.
> 
> Jim
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


if you can, remove the foil and start over. 3 things will happen if you
don't:

1. the piece will be thicker and may not fit into place.
2. the foil is off center, meaning that there's less on one side and
more on the other. if you overlap the foil, there's still going to be
more on one side, which is very unattractive. 
3. replacing the bad section would be weak, and would most likely fail
in the future.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 10:46:14 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: scratched glass
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:13:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.71334.0>
Precedence: bulk

Jean, the good thing about this is that you CAN look at each piece of glass
BEFORE you buy it.  If it is scratched, don't take it.  If the scratches are
not in areas you want to use, you can cut around it.  That's one advantage
of buying retail rather than mail-order.  [Also remember...I'm a retailer]

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: jean pay <sglass1@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 11:50 AM
Subject: scratched glass


>Hello to all !
>
>Where to start? I bought my glass. (didn't take your advice on choosing
>the glass ) :(  Now I made a deer. Oval turned out great!
>I mean it WAS oval, no gaps,grain going the correct way.
>Well the med amber is scratched all over.I never noticed untill I hung
>in my window. I was so happy thinking it had turned out so well. Now I
>want to bash It against brick wall :(  My question is are all glass
>stores the same? I have gone back to the glass store and noticed that
>the stuff in lger 12x12" 3/4 of it was scratched most just little spots
>but some was really yucky. I looked at other stuff smaller like 8x10 in
>other displays and even some of that was scratched . I didn't bother
>checking lg stuff in back. (though they don't let you touch any way)
>Soooo do all of you have to inspect every piece front and back (this
>piece had a blob of glass on the front also ) before purchasing ? or
>what? At the time i wasn't using a light table. since then took a
>weekend and now I have a door w/light on 4x4's. next i guess i'll go
>thru my glass and see what good and whats scratched. Oh well back to
>the cutting board. :) Jeanne
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 10:52:16 1998
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Bad foil job
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:16:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.71634.0>
Precedence: bulk

Jim...Like everything else...It depends....Generally you can cut the bad
pieces off and refoil just that area.  It is wise to overlap the refoiled
area a little so there are no open areas.

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 12:12 PM
Subject: Bad foil job


>Hi,
>
>While foiling several pieces the foil did not center.
>I was wondering, must I refoil the entire piece or
>can I just cut out the bad section and refoil that
>section overlapping on both sides?
>
>Any comments greatly appreciated.
>
>Jim
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 11:04:55 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bad foil job
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 11:34:53 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.53453.0>
References: <<1998Dec5.52335.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Jim

Depends on the quality you want to produce.  If you want it to be great.
*refoil* it.  Try to get the adhesive off the glass before you refoil
also. Fingernail polish remover works good to get that off.
If you do not refoil it...your patch that over laps may *float off when
you solder over it...or if it stays, you will be able to see that it
over laps other foil.  

When I foil a peice of glass I try for as little overlap at my ends as
possible.  

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 11:10:38 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Central PA show
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:55:20 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.75520.0>
Precedence: bulk

Suzy was looking for good SE PA shows.  This one in central
PA is very, very good.

Central Pennsylvania Festival of the Arts
July 8-11, 1999
locaton: Borough of State College & campus of Penn State
draw: over 150,000 people attended last year
prizes totaling $15,000 will be awarded
obviously, heavily juried
$20 jurying fee, $300 booth fee for 10'x10'
more info?  Arts Festival Office (814) 237-3682
or office@arts-festival.com

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 11:52:49 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Ed Rogers" <ejr929@lvcm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:24:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.8242.0>
Precedence: bulk

Ah, here we go again.  Another
lurker complaining because =

we're not entertaining him properly!
As though we get paid for our time
and advice!!  Hey, Ed, how about
contributing something besides
complaints!!

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 12:07:21 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Bad foil job
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:50:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.85036.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Jim-

Just cut out the bad section.... or, heck,
if it's not too bad, trim the fatter side
with an X-acto knife.  Or stick another
piece over the skinny side and trim
to match.  Use your imagination!  Just
remember to get enough foil on each =

side of the glass so that when you solder,
there's enough matrix to hold the glass
together.  Remember, it's the solder =

that holds the glass together, not the
foil.  The foil is just there so the solder
has something to adhere to.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 12:09:30 1998
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X-Path: ppp16.math.uwaterloo.ca!dmg
From: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: OFF-TOPIC: Mezcal y Tequila
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:04:14 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.9414.0>
References: <<199812050329.DAA56122@csgrs6k1.uwaterloo.ca>>
Precedence: bulk


| Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
|=20
| > Also sprach shyguy@vdot.net:
| >
| > >I thought the worm was in Mezcal, not Tequila?
| >
| > Dredging up memories from my youth in Far Northern Mexico (i.e. south=
ern
| > California):
| >
| > Mezcal is the plant that tequila is made from. The mezcal worm (actua=
lly the

Mezcal is not extracted from the same plant as the tequila. Mezcal is
extracted from  "Agave mexicana", "Agave wixlinzeni" and
"A. deispiens". By extension, this kind of agave is called
Mezcal. Tequla is extracted from "Agave tequilana".

| > caterpillar of the butterfly that fertilizes the plant, like monarchs=
 on
| > milkweed) lives on the plant. At some point, someone got the bright i=
dea of
| > testing the strength of the tequila by dropping a live worm into the =
bottle.
| > Supposedly, if the tequila is good and strong, the worm will be dead =
(or at
| > least unconscious) before it hits bottom. If the worm is still wiggli=
ng when
| > it hits bottom, the tequila is "wimpy."

Tequila does not have worm. Only mezcal. Mezcal is less pure than
tequila.

| > Some "real Mexican tequila" is sold with a label that reads "con guza=
no" -
| > "with the worm." Traditionally, when "real hombres" are out drinking,=
 the guy

If you want good "real tequila", look  for the "A=F1ejo" and "Reposado"  =
labels. My
friends --I don't drink alcohol-- recommend Herradura Reposado.

| > who takes the last shot from the bottle has to eat the worm.
| >
| > Sparks (I forget how to say that in Spanish and don't have my "diccio=
nario"
| > handy - Daniel, help me out!)
| > ----
| > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
| > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
| > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
|=20
| ----
| For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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| Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
|=20
|=20
--
Daniel M. German                  "A first-rate laboratory is one in=20
                                   which mediocre scientists can produce
   Patrick Maynard Stuart Blackett ->outstanding work"
http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca

=20
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 12:31:22 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Bad foil job
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:14:25 -0500
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Message text written by Jim Gonzalez
>While foiling several pieces the foil did not center.
I was wondering, must I refoil the entire piece or
can I just cut out the bad section and refoil that
section overlapping on both sides?<

You don't have to redo the entire thing.  Just cut
bad section & refoil.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 12:46:11 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Bio #75 Donna Harris
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:41:23 -0600
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 Hello Everyone, I have been listening for over a year to this list and have
enjoyed it and the sites recommended.

Now, finally is time for an introduction.  I
have been doing stained glass for about 25 years.  Starting as a hobbyist in
Florida, and then a business for 2-3 years in Wisconsin; I now continue only
for fun.  I have a studio area in my home which is always set up (19 years)
and which I can access anytime I am inspired.

I seem to be the type of personality that works feverishly for months at a
time and then burn out and don't touch glass for a year or so.  Crazy, but
that's the way I work. I have gone thru phases of window panels, boxes,
jewelry, stepping stones (2yrs ago) and now for the first time making lamps.
I am very attracted to the straight lines of panel lamps in the Frank Lloyd
Wright style.  For Christmas presents this year, I have made over 12 lamps
and my husband is making the bases out of cherry from a freind's woods.

I also work with a rehabilitation group called Wildlife of Wisconsin which
cares for injured, abandoned or diseased wildlife.  Thus, the nature
influence. I love working with colors and the blues, greens and all natural
colors dominate my work. I completed a lamp on a drift wood base that is 4
sided (large) with swirls of leaves, blues for sky and water and have
incorporated a sunface molded piece on one side a bug molded on another and
a turtle mold into a pond area on another side.  I had such a good time,
that I am again in the fever mode and have another lamp started that I need
advise.

I am making a mosaic 4 panel that I would like to hide an elephant in!  Yes,
an elephant.....I'm sure many of you have seen windows that have hidden
designs .  If you look at them long enough, you may see a tiger or something
else emerge.  Las Vegas is a good place to look for this type of design.  I
was wondering if anyone has suggestions of where to look for information on
this type of design or any suggestions on how to do this.  I am also looking
for some elephant patterns that might work in a lamp.  Thank you in advance
for any assistance and now I will go back to listening.

Donna Harms.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 12:49:38 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, leestat7@home.com
Subject: Breaking Glass
Date: Sat,  5 Dec 1998 13:52:49, -0500
Message-ID: <199812051852.NAA11930@mime3.prodigy.com>
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Lee Boe writes, in part:
>>I have a project right now that calls for frosted "Beach Glass"  I 
need
to break up 5-10 pounds of glass scrap into 1" to 2" inch pieces.  I
have a friend (Lapidary) who has a big vibrating tumbler, and will
tumble it for me.  How is the best (safest) way to crunch up a good
amount of glass? <<

I have tried several ways of breaking up glass including a post 
rammer in a large plastic bucket to make frit. Just smashing the 
glass results in a very wide variation in size from powder to pieces 
of several square inches.

For your purpose, I suggest that you bite the bullet and cut the 
glass into pieces of about one square foot and then space scores in 
one direction about one to two inches apart, turn 90 degrees, or so 
and repeat scoring. Break all scores in one direction and then break 
up the resulting strips. Ten pounds of glass should take less than 
one hour to reduce to pieces of the size you need. 

In the long run I think this is the preferred method for you.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:        glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 13:01:47 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: #75 How do you hide and elephant?
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:45:24 -0600
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Hiding the elephant is not hard. Its trying to cover up the smell of peanuts
that's hard.
I once had an elephant in the living room .... but nobody would talk about
him)

(Oh no, here we go again, another silly thread)

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 13:05:49 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Poor Patrick!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 19:17:36 +0000
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MMmmmm....
Toby - a dainty 7 stone (approx. 50 kgs) little cherub - has been  a 
virtual "orphan" for the last week or so, while Elisabeth has  looked 
after her Mother-in-law (a little poorly at 87..), run  classes, 
done week-end all-day workshops (8.30 am - 6 pm!!), attend her own 
teacher certificate training course, put together the final touches 
to her  "national qualification" s.g. course, done her quarterly 
dreaded accounts, working on a commission that should be delivered 
(preferably!) BEFORE this Christmas,   all - away from home.

 Sorry folks!
 Am chasing my tail at the moment. Arrived home tonight 
(frost and snow just set in "over here" - bbrrrr!!). Toby toooo 
occupied in telling me how maltreated he has been, that he hasn't 
checked the e-mails and wasn't too impressed when I told him there 
were about 600. I think Patrick, gnomon and tu-tu will be safe this 
week-end - ...just.

Onwards and upwards....599 still to go through!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Carol Tombro wrote:
> Geez Pat, has it come to this desperate plan of withholding a pattern in
> order to get a bio?  I guess Toby is bigger than I thought.  Good luck, hope
> you get them soon, the weekend is fast approaching.
> 
> Pat Kelly wrote:
> 
> > Jean,
> >
> > I have a pattern for a panel. It will cost you a bio. email me your snail
> > mail address and I'll have it in the mail.
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 13:08:27 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Breaking glass
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:30:41 -0600
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If you were a Prima Ballerina like me I would suggest "The Nut Cracker
Suite". Those pointed toe slippers do a real good job on Bullseye,
especially on the jumps. The only problem I've had in the past is the
marching toy soldiers .... don't, they fall down. So we made it into a
comedy.

Seriously, why not sandwiching it between two pieces of thin plywood and
then running over it with your car?
Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 13:17:47 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: advice again? ;o)
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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 19:53:40 +0000
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This is just a terribly short and very inadequate comment. Suzanne in 
Tulsa has taken off and is "flying", just the way I imagined she 
would right from the start.
Good on you girl!
I see there is a better chance of seeing you next year in USA!
Saving up a lot of "goodie" lead ideas for the occasion!

Roll on next August!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

P.S. You mean you don't STIR your coffee with your index finger...?!

> Hi everybody.  Every single finger that is attached to me hurts so bad,
> dont know if I can go to sleep.  Spent yesterday cutting all day.  Today
> was soldering all day (9am -midnight)  
> Lessons I learned today.
> 
> 1.Flux stings!  (bad)
> 
> 2. when you are tired enough you really dont give a damn whether you die
> from lead poisoning or old age, you just want some rest. 
>  Why arent you supposed to drink while you solder?  I dont dip my ingers
> in my drink. 
> 
> 3.I need more bandaides, and time.  Now, for the advice request...
> 
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 13:22:28 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio# 74 Luanne
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:37:19 -0600
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     A lurker replies, with a BIO, the hardest thing to write, but a good
way
to introduce ones self.  I am a new lurker and already have benefited
greatly
by the information and generosity of all bungis.  I was introduced to the
bungi group by Linda Campbell, thank you Linda, and thank you all.

   My name is Luanne Kane, linked forever with Lead Lines Stained Glass
Studio.  I was born in Amityville, New York on June 5, 1956.  I lived in 9
different states before settling here in Dunedin, Florida.  Dunedin is a
small
town (50,000 people) on the west coast of Florida.  I have been married to
Jim
Kane  for 20 years and have a daughter 13 years old.

     I began my journey with stained glass in 1979.  I was working as a
Communications Technician with AT&T Long Lines in New Orleans, Louisiana.
It
was a good job for the corporate world but MONEY was the only thing that
kept
me there.  Listen to your elders, NEVER DO IT FOR THE MONEY.  I always had
some kind of hobby, usually craft like, so stained glass naturally
interested
me.  I enrolled in a 5 week course and was hooked.  I began slowly, making
gifts and then progressing to  filling orders for my friends at work.  I
then
started participating in local craft shows, later graduating to art shows.
All this, while still working my day job.  After a few years, I finally had
the courage to quit my real job and plunge right in to the glass world.  It
was a difficult decision but the best one I ever made.  My husband and I
moved
from New Orleans to Florida in 1983 and at this point I set up a studio in a
spare bedroom and started a wholesale suncatcher business.  I would make say
about $1,000 worth of suncatchers and hit the road.  I would call on small
gift shops, show the owners my glass and sell the items right out of my
cases.
My work was well received and before I knew I had outgrown the bedroom
studio
and was searching for a studio outside the home.  At this time Jim and I had
also decided to start a family, with a baby on the way, we either had to
move
the business or move us all.  I opted to move the business.  The storefront
I
found was originally to be a place to work, not a real business.  The area
where the studio was had terrific walk-in traffic and with the natural
curiosity of people, the studio immediately turned into a stained glass
studio/gift shoppe.  Before I knew it, I had employees for the studio and
outside salespeople.  The business was good from the beginning and a lot of
work, in retrospect, I don't know how I ever managed to do it all.  My
daughter was with me all day at work, day care was not an option for me.
She
literally grew up in the studio and though it may not have always been the
best situation for me, it was for her.  I realized after 8 years that the
business had turned me from artist to merchant/manager and I was looking for
a
way to simplify things.  By this time, our family had moved into a larger
home
and after much consideration, I closed the business and set up the studio in
our garage.  The 8 years of storefront visibility had enabled me to build a
client base.  I have been working from home (again) since 1993 and the
freedom
and flexibility of working when I please has proved to be the best way for
me.
I work alone, do all sales myself, have a  talented woodcrafter to do all
major installations, all records are in a shoe box and life is great.  I
still
wholesale suncatchers and small panels, do custom commission work and have a
line of costume jewelry that I sell mainly to art centers and trendy gift
shops.   I no longer do shows, they proved to be difficult for me, hard to
prepare for, etc. I have been teaching since 1980, with small sized classes
at
the store and now individual instruction at my garage studio.  It is a
wonderful way to pass on my love for glass and meet and make new friends
through glass. I have met some of the nicest people through this crazy glass
business and some of the craziest! I will probably be in this business
forever, I find it to be very therapeutic and rewarding. On my worst day, it
takes about 5 minutes in my studio to feel the tension go away. I never tire
of making that same pattern (one more time) for wholesale and the excitement
of a big custom job basically keeps me up all night.  I hope I never lose my
love of glass.  The business seems to have come full circle in a very short
time, funny how things work out.

OUT OF LURKDOM NOW

Luanne



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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 13:35:11 1998
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: inane chatter subtitled how come i love all you guys (a true confession)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:32:44 EST
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In a message dated 12/5/98 7:08:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
CncptThnkr@aol.com writes:

<< I never would have said a word had it not been for the
 "inane chatter", it made me realize you guys are real people, have a life,
own
 duct tape, appreciate ballet, aren't scared by slightly perverse jokes  >>

Ed's got a point also altho rather strongly stated.  Certain threads tend
to get a life of there own, and sometimes - although interesting - get 
way off topic.
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 13:38:00 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Update on Elisabeth
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:11:23 -0600
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Harassed Elisabeth until she responded to "Where are You"?.


her answer:


Up to my bloody neck in it!!!!
Catch up with you later....
E 'n T in UK

So ... I guess the "cantankerous one"  is still kicking. Prepare for deluge
when she gets out of a pile of what ever it is she is in (Pat's minds
wanders and hopes for the worst).  (8-)


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 15:47:22 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: inane chatter 
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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:03:24 +0000
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> Ed's got a point also altho rather strongly stated.  Certain threads tend
> to get a life of there own, and sometimes - although interesting - get 
> way off topic.

Oh, well. Most of life's off topic, so why not part of the bungi 
chat?

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 16:08:47 1998
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X-Path: fair.net!andor
From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Mixing copper foil in a lead project?
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:50:37 -0500
Message-ID: <199812052248.RAA20939@smtp.america.net>
Precedence: bulk

Question Time:

I am doing a small window 10x30, rose in a vase sitting on a table, in front
of a leaded window.

I have always done either lead or copper foil but never mixed medias.

Question I would like to foil the flower and vase and the horizon at the
table top, but the background glass I want to lead.  Am I making any sense
at all.

So the effect will be the foiled flower and vase and the lead looking like a
leaded window.

Where the flower meets the background (clear waterglass) I want to keep the
lead lines straight.  So where the flower and vase but the waterglass, can I
foil that and still put my lead where it should be.  Gee I can't seem to
explain this.

I guess I could do the whole thing in lead.  The flower turned out so well,
I just thought maybe I should foil it.  Trying to do something different.

Your input appreciated.  Clarification upon request, I can try to make it
even more confusing.  :-)   I have thought about this all day  and figured I
would jump on in.

I have learned so much just reading all my e-mail.  I am getting to feel as
if I know you all.

Happy Holidays,
Linda Jo Letscher
(Eljay)
ICQ uin  5072431







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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 16:46:16 1998
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X-Path: warner-criv.com!charles
From: "Charles Warner" <charles@warner-criv.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: scratched glass
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:57:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.135749.0>
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Jean:

>Well the med amber is scratched all over.I never noticed untill I hung 
>in my window. 

What brand glass is it? Mike is correct in that each brand of glass
has slight manufacturing differences and some of these are undesirable.

>....:(  My question is are all glass 
>stores the same? I have gone back to the glass store and noticed that 
>the stuff in lger 12x12" 3/4 of it was scratched most just little spots 
>but some was really yucky. I looked at other stuff smaller like 8x10 in 
>other displays and even some of that was scratched . 

The scratches you described sound like the kind from the rollers 
the glass rides on after it is rolled out, during the cool-down process.
If scratched in manufacturing it would make no difference what size
piece you would look at.  "Are all stores the same?", Not really,
when we received glass from a manufacturer that was scratched
we sold it (in-store only) as seconds with a healthy mark-down.
Good stores depend on repeat business and will not mess with
this problem.

We clean glass before cutting the full sheets and check them for
this and other defects.

>I didn't bother 
>checking lg stuff in back. (though they don't let you touch any way)  

A glass store might not let a customer handle larger sheets of
glass.  Many times our customers shoved glass into bins causing
other sheets to crack (but not break).  Later when the glass was
touched the broken sheet would fall out of the bin like a guillotine
onto an unsuspecting person.

Another problem is just what you described; many people, including
people in-the-business do not know how to properly handle glass 
without damaging it.

>Soooo do all of you have to inspect every piece front and back (this 
>piece had a blob of glass on the front also ) before purchasing ? or 
>what? 

Deal with a responsible company and this should not be a problem.
We even ship glass out of the country without a problem, our customers 
are not able to look at each piece, even so, our mail order customers 
are happy with their glass.  We are extremely careful with glass selections
for shipment and we only sell first quality glass.

>At the time i wasn't using a light table. since then took a 
>weekend and now I have a door w/light on 4x4's. 

A light table is one of the most useful tools in glass work.

Write to me off line if you would like

Charles Warner
Warner-Crivellaro
http://www.warner-criv.com/


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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 17:51:21 1998
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: I think I see a life through the window...
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 20:31:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.153116.0>
Precedence: bulk

...and I think it's my life.  We had our last craft fair today, so all I
have to do now is finish up those special orders (not all of which have
to be done for Christmas...whoopee).  So I think I may finally have a
life for a while.

We have had about as good an autumn/early winter season as I can
survive.

Am now home watching UConn women's basketball on TV and need to do an
ATM run to deposit checks.  Does life get much better?  (Well, yes, I
think I'll whip up some hot chocolate...)

Should have time to get that fruitcake I promised my son and his SO...or
maybe a Chia pet...

Dorothy K

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 19:01:44 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Bio #75 Donna Harris
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:47:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.154712.0>
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Patrick!

Are you cheating again?? I could swear I've
read Donna Harris' bio before and not all
that long ago!  Boy, some folks will do anything
to save their tutus!  Toby..... here boy.... got a =

little snack waiting for you......!

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 19:12:41 1998
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X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass
From: "Molly Keys" <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Aggies
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 19:53:08 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.13538.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0066_01BE2088.E1C55680
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I just couldn't resist sharing this with you'all.  I know there have to =
be a few fellow Aggies out there in "Bungi Land".

How 'bout them  Aggies!  Whoop!  Whoop!

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, it's football!

Couldn't resist.
Gig'em
Molly Keys

------=_NextPart_000_0066_01BE2088.E1C55680
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I just couldn't resist sharing this =
with=20
you'all.&nbsp; I know there have to be a few fellow Aggies out there in=20
&quot;Bungi Land&quot;.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>How 'bout them&nbsp; Aggies!&nbsp; =
Whoop!&nbsp;=20
Whoop!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>For those who don't know what I'm =
talking about,=20
it's football!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Couldn't resist.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
size=3D2>Gig'em</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Molly =
Keys</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0066_01BE2088.E1C55680--

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 19:25:57 1998
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X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw
From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Gemstone 14" Studio Beveler
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:25:59 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.142559.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All...

Is anyone here using one of these machines?? If so how do you like it and is
it better or worse than others? I've got one of Gemstone's Super Buff
polishing machines and love it and was considering adding a small beveling
machine to my shop... The Inland Twin Spin with beveling kit I have leaves a
LOT to be desired and I dont really have the $$ to go with commercial
Glastar equipment etc...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks


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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 19:52:21 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!sglass1
From: "jean pay" <sglass1@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: need a lamp maker
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 18:42:06 PST
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.2426.0>
Precedence: bulk

    I have a client for who i do work for. She bought a lamp,from a 
place ordered it got it home and its broken. I looked at her and said I 
could steer her to some good glass work. sooooo anybody wanna job? in NE 
Pa. area . Jeanne


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 20:20:18 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: andor@fair.net, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mixing copper foil in a lead project?
Date: Sat,  5 Dec 1998 22:14:36, -0500
Message-ID: <199812060314.WAA13840@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

Linda Jo writes, in part:
I am doing a small window 10x30, rose in a vase sitting on a table, 
in front
of a leaded window.

I have always done either lead or copper foil but never mixed medias.


Question I would like to foil the flower and vase and the horizon at 
the
table top, but the background glass I want to lead.  Am I making any 
sense
at all.

So the effect will be the foiled flower and vase and the lead looking 
like a
leaded window.<<

Sure you can mix the two techniques. In fact, in the window you 
describe mixing lead and foil seems like the best choice. 

When finishing the lead/foil window I recommend you putty the leaded 
portion first and patina the foiled portion second. 

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 20:56:55 1998
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X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw
From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Shop Ideas?
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:37:37 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.143737.0>
Precedence: bulk

I'm in the process of drawing up plans for a new workshop for my glass
biz.... I've outgrown the 2 rooms in the house I now use...

Are there any things I need to make room for that you have in your shop or
wish you had made room for??

Right now I only do panels for homebuilders and thier customers basicly and
since I take samples,photos,and a laptop right to the jobsites I have no
need for a 'customer area'....Basicly I'm looking at building a 20'x36'
building so I can have plenty of room to build multiple panels at once
instead of having to shuffle everything around like I do now in these small
rooms...Also will be having plenty of racks for glass (then maybe I'll
actually be able to find something around here)

Any ideas would be appreciated... I do want to prewire for a future kiln and
such should I buy one in the future too..
Thanks in advance!

Byron...
Wells Glassworks


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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 22:08:01 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: all <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: The Score - Software & Sundials
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:18:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.181831.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all-

Just got the latest issue of Spectrum's
newsletter and wanted to pass on a =

couple of things. =


 First, there is an
article comparing The Glass Eye and
Designer II software that I thought some
of you might be interested in.  =


Second, two mosaic publications are =

reviewed, one entitled "SunTiles" by =

Catherine Huben --to make some really
cool mosaic sundials.  Huben's book
includes a free aluminum gnomon (take
heed, Patrick, since you're about to lose
one) and a free floppy disk with all designs.
Now, I have to tell you, when stepping
stones first came out, I thought they were
pretty cheesy.  I've since seen some folks
come up with very nice and very original
designs.  I like the sundial idea best of
all.... still wouldn't make any... but, I'd =

certainly consider buying one for my garden.
For those of you who do the fairs, I think =

this one would be a hot seller.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 22:26:49 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: all <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Copy of: Mixing copper foil in a lead project?
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:55:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.18555.0>
Precedence: bulk


---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:   Dani Greer, 105715,1412
TO:     "Linda Letscher", INTERNET:andor@fair.net
DATE:   12/5/98 6:59 PM

RE:     Copy of: Mixing copper foil in a lead project?

Hi Eljay-

We often mix lead and foil... well,
I shouldn't say often.... we do mostly
lead work.  But, when we do a copper
foil panel, almost always the border
is done in lead, just because lead
makes for a crisper straight line and
often the visual relief of a wider matrix
is nice.  And, yes, we cement the =

window.... the cement makes a nice
patina on the foiled areas, too.  I usually
mark the glass edges of the foiled pieces
that will slide into the lead channel so I
don't actually foil that edge.   Does that
make sense?  A picture would be worth
a thousand words here!  Maybe another
article for Common Ground, Albert, with =

good photos?

Good luck!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 22:34:14 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: you  just have to see this...
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 23:29:22 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.172922.0>
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look what I got in my mail today.  Life is good.   but I just have to be
a little less emotional...it made me cry. again!  I have some very good
friends.

 http://www.bluemountain.com/cards/box3785i/pbf3jfsbirkhun.htm


 Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 22:49:24 1998
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From: CWWSLW@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Tequila/Mezcal
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 00:21:27 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.52127.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 12/4/98 9:46:41 PM Central Standard Time, ejr929@lvcm.com
writes:

<< Why don't  you people stop this ridiculous waste of time and energy,
 chatting about silliness that has absolutely nothing to do with the craft of
 stained glass?!?!
 The purpose of a list like this is to discuss SG issues, help each other
 out, and so forth.  The nonsense that I've witnessed for the few days I've
 been on this site makes me wonder whether you really care about SG, or just
 want to spend your time with corny, inane chitchat.
 
 I hope this group gets back on track!!!
  >>

Yall knew this was coming!!!
Susan
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 23:01:50 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Byron Wells" <byronw@eatumup.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:34:58 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.173458.0>
Precedence: bulk

In my dream studio I would have a skylight. I think they call them a "Sun
Tunnel". It would give perfect sunlight and as an additional benefit you
wouldn't need a light during the day.


-----Original Message-----
From: Byron Wells <byronw@eatumup.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 11:15 PM
Subject: Shop Ideas?


>I'm in the process of drawing up plans for a new workshop for my glass
>biz.... I've outgrown the 2 rooms in the house I now use...
>
>Are there any things I need to make room for that you have in your shop or
>wish you had made room for??
>
>Right now I only do panels for homebuilders and thier customers basicly and
>since I take samples,photos,and a laptop right to the jobsites I have no
>need for a 'customer area'....Basicly I'm looking at building a 20'x36'
>building so I can have plenty of room to build multiple panels at once
>instead of having to shuffle everything around like I do now in these small
>rooms...Also will be having plenty of racks for glass (then maybe I'll
>actually be able to find something around here)
>
>Any ideas would be appreciated... I do want to prewire for a future kiln
and
>such should I buy one in the future too..
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Byron...
>Wells Glassworks
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 23:09:13 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Look out Tulsa
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 23:51:58 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec5.175158.0>
Precedence: bulk

Here I come.

Priced, packed and ready....
Added it all up and ended up with a $1965.00 inventory.  Not too bad ofr
a 6 hour show?  The problem is that half of that is in stones.  

Cant say I will be happy with anything and be honest at the same time. 
Have no idea what to expect...

I feel good about what I am offering.  Quality, value and reasonable
prices.  AND...some Suzanne originals! ;o)  I am excited.

Thank you so much, everyone for all the encouragement, and well wishes. 
I have recieved some really nice emails privately from many of you whom
I had never met here before.  I appreciate it all so much!


My husband started asking me things like....
what if someone says regarding something priced at $45,  "This is so
pretty, would you take $40?"  What would I say?
I said. "Thank you, no"  Then he said, well it is only $5...I said "yes,
but it should have been $50."

Then he started talking about marking down prices if things werent
selling well...  Sheeeeeeeeesssssshhhhhh... I said well...then "I will
have the prettiest Christmas tree in town!!!"  My prices are good.  I am
not marking them down.
I was ready to have a knockout drag down with my husband.   This isnt a
garage sale.  I reminded him if things dont sell tomorrow, they will
another time...or I have some Christmas presents I was already going to
have to make.  Besides, I make what I like....so, some of the stuff I am
*almost hoping dont sell...so I can keep em! (shhhh) ;o)

You'll hear from me tomorrow night...hopefully after a dinner at
Bellinni's, and a really good bottle of wine! 

Thinking positively

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 23:16:28 1998
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Mixing copper foil in a lead project?
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:56:23 -0800
Message-ID: <199812060456.UAA02886@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

>>Sure you can mix the two techniques. In fact, in the window you 
>describe mixing lead and foil seems like the best choice. 
>
>When finishing the lead/foil window I recommend you putty the leaded 
>portion first and patina the foiled portion second. 

Actually, you won't need to patina the foiled portion at all.  A little
trick I learned from Dani Greer...use a natural bristle brush and the
whiting from the putty process will patina the solder on the copper foil
portion to the same lovely dark colour as the lead came.  It'll look great

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 23:25:14 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, sglass1@hotmail.com
Subject: scratched glass
Date: Sun,  6 Dec 1998 00:31:44, -0500
Message-ID: <199812060531.AAA12404@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Soooo do all of you have to inspect every piece front and back 
(this 
piece had a blob of glass on the front also ) before purchasing ? or 

what?<<

Of course you have to inspect your glass. Even a dealer that takes 
great care with storing glass will from time to time have scratches 
that are unacceptable. Straight out of the factory case glass may 
also be scratched.

Hand select each piece of glass at the point of pruchase. If the 
glass is not clean then ask for cleaning supplies. This inspection 
will also allow you to get a good feel for the glass and perhaps 
select from an interesting area of the sheet. It is, perhaps, second 
only to a good cartoon for the overall success of the project.

Also inspect your glass for scratches prior to cutting and 
immediately before leading up. Failure to do so will leave you with 
what you get.

Storing glass verticaly helps to prevent scratching. Stacking glass 
is a no no because any movement between the sheets is likely to 
result in scratching.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:        glass@intrastar.net

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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 23:26:27 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: advice again? ;o)
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 00:27:36 -0600
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> This is just a terribly short and very inadequate comment. Suzanne in 
> Tulsa has taken off and is "flying", just the way I imagined she 
> would right from the start.
> Good on you girl!
> I see there is a better chance of seeing you next year in USA!
> Saving up a lot of "goodie" lead ideas for the occasion!
> 
> Roll on next August!!
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Thank you Elisabeth...and...
You betcha!!!  See ya there! ;o)  I am sooo excited! and happy!

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Dec  5 23:39:17 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
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Subject: Re: Copy of: Mixing copper foil in a lead project?
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 00:44:16 -0600
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> A picture would be worth
> a thousand words here!  Maybe another
> article for Common Ground, Albert, with =
> 
> good photos?

I for one would like to read that one.

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 00:26:13 1998
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X-Path: netrax.net!rejones
From: Bob Jones <rejones@netrax.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Walt Disney World
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 02:22:24 -0500
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I just got back from a trip to Walt Disney World.

There are glass mosaics in Cinderella's Castle that are incredible, in both
size and color.  If you get a chance, go see them.

Bob


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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 01:22:54 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Perfect studio was: Shop Ideas?
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 02:38:50 -0500
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No sunlight for me... the perfect studio
has North light (ours does now.)  That
way you have constant light all day, no
changes with sunlight which wreaks
all kinds of havoc with color.  But, the
perfect studio does have wonderfully
high ceilings and lots of big windows.
And hardwood floors... absolutely no
wall-to-wall carpet.  Oh, well maybe
heated tiles would be okay.  And, a =

breezeway to the house so that when
we're working 'til ghastly hours like now,
I can run home and raid the 'fridge! ;-)

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios (in snowy Colorado!)
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 01:35:01 1998
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From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
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Subject: Client Referral
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 00:11:01 -0800
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Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited
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Hi All,

Commission work after the holidays may be available. I am searching for
a glass artist who would design and install a small panel into a front
entryway door. If you live in the Portland Oregon/Vancouver, Washington
area please e-mail me off group.

Thanks

Pam

--
*********************************
The Stained Glass Artists
Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director:
Advertising & Marketing


Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 02:11:16 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Bio #75 Donna Harris
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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:48:16 +0000
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Huh!?
What?!
ME!?
Did you say S N A C K !!!? Grumphh!! Be there RIGHT away!!
The worm in the tequila bottle gave me hiccups. I think I'll rather 
have a gnomon
Snuffles to all (who is Ed?)
Toby

Dani wrote:
> 
> Are you cheating again?? I could swear I've
> read Donna Harris' bio before and not all
> that long ago!  Boy, some folks will do anything
> to save their tutus!  Toby..... here boy.... got a =
> 
> little snack waiting for you......!
> 
 
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 02:41:14 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Bad foil job
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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:48:16 +0000
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Hey Dani,

For a moment, I thought you were talking about Patrick..... ;->
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

SNIP 
> Just cut out the bad section.... or, heck,
> if it's not too bad, trim the fatter side
> with an X-acto knife.  Or stick another
> piece over the skinny side and trim
> to match.  Use your imagination!  Just
> remember to get enough foil on each =
> side ....SNIP
----
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 02:41:34 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Hhhhmmmm....
Glad I missed this one! (Toby is not!)
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


> Ah, here we go again.  Another
> lurker complaining because =
> 
> we're not entertaining him properly!
> As though we get paid for our time
> and advice!!  Hey, Ed, how about
> contributing something besides
> complaints!!
> 
> Dani Greer
> 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 02:53:51 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: RE: #75 How do you hide and elephant?
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.....it's when they get inside the fridge that you should start to 
worry. Their foot-prints in the butter dish is rather unsightly.....
E 'n T in UK

Patrick wrote:
> Hiding the elephant is not hard. Its trying to cover up the smell of peanuts
> that's hard.
> I once had an elephant in the living room .... but nobody would talk about
> him)
> 
> (Oh no, here we go again, another silly thread)
> 
 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 02:55:05 1998
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Hi All,
I think I prefer Patrick's solution.... (very Irish!)
place between 2 sheets of wood, drive car over it.
Can't think of any disadvantage (except its Irish origin)
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> Lee Boe writes, in part:
> >>I have a project right now that calls for frosted "Beach Glass"  I 
> need
> to break up 5-10 pounds of glass scrap into 1" to 2" inch pieces.  I
> have a friend (Lapidary) who has a big vibrating tumbler, and will
> tumble it for me.  How is the best (safest) way to crunch up a good
> amount of glass? <<
> 

----
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 03:00:04 1998
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That's why he needs a gnomon as a "prop". The question is, what 
happens when the stained glass tu-tu is too heavy and he has lost the 
gnomon???
E 'n T in UK
The leg-less, gnomon-less Irishman wrote:
> The Prima Ballerina never ..... never has a partner.
----
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 03:11:41 1998
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Subject: Re: Mixing copper foil in a lead project?
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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 04:15:40 +0000
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> A picture would be worth
> a thousand words here!  Maybe another
> article for Common Ground, Albert, with  
> good photos?

Makes sense to me.  -- Albert
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 03:13:14 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, byronw@eatumup.com
Subject: Shop Ideas?
Date: Sun,  6 Dec 1998 04:37:50, -0500
Message-ID: <199812060937.EAA06406@mime3.prodigy.com>
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>>I'm in the process of drawing up plans for a new workshop for my 
glass
biz.... I've outgrown the 2 rooms in the house I now use...

Are there any things I need to make room for that you have in your 
shop or
wish you had made room for??<<

One or MORE wall mounted variable speed loovered exhaust fans will do 
much to remove dust and fumes from your studio. A through the wall 
fan taking a suction on the area you do most of your soldering and 
puttying is the idea. Another one on the wall behind the kiln will 
make your summers more pleasent. One behind the bench where you spray 
and sand your kiln wash is not a bad idea either. Try to plan in a 
couple at least.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 04:48:30 1998
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From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: sea glass
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 06:21:28 -0800
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Delphi on page 98 of their catalog is advertising "sea glass".  It's
also sold in gift stores where I live, but isn't really realistic; it
looks too much like stained glass that has been put in a tumbler.
Delphi's seems to be more realistic.  Or you can go to the New Jersey
coast and probably other parts of the coast and beachcomb for your own
like I did.  I'd recommend Delphi though, a lot quicker that way.

Carol T

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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 05:07:09 1998
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From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bio #75 Donna Harris
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 06:30:50 -0800
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I have to second Dani, that is a familiar bio, at least one to two weeks
old.  For shame Patrick, just so Toby will leave you alone for awhile
until he can confirm our allegations of "repeat bios" just to keep your
legs intact or is it leg?

Also - non glass Ed - a little levity never hurt a list.  This is a
nerve-wracking time for a lot of us, trying to complete projects by a
certain date and hating to turn down some commissions because there is
no time for them.  So, a little silliness lightens things up for a bit.
JMHO

Carol T

Dani Greer wrote:

> Patrick!
>
> Are you cheating again?? I could swear I've
> read Donna Harris' bio before and not all
> that long ago!  Boy, some folks will do anything
> to save their tutus!  Toby..... here boy.... got a =
>
> little snack waiting for you......!
>
> Best,
>
> Dani Greer
> Greer Gallery & Studios
> www.igga.org/greer/  =
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 07:34:25 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg
From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: "Barking" the edges of glass panels
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 09:58:34 -0500
Message-ID: <19981206145412.FNJB4525@vic>
Precedence: bulk

I picked up an order of 1/2 & 3/4 inch glass from the glaziers this weekend
to carve for use in my home.  When I ordered the glass I asked that one of
the panels be polished on only one long side (3') and up 18" of the two
short sides (2').  My reason for this was that I want to "Bark" or chip the
top and 6+/-" of the sides for effect.  I was told that polished edges
could not be chipped, with no explanation as to why.

My questions:

A.	Is this true? 

B.	If so, why? 

C.	Is it possible to  get them to a point where I can chip them? I have
diamond coated sponges five that go from 50 to 400 grit that I can use in
reverse to rough them up.

D.	I have some old brick and/or stone hammers.  Can these be used for
chipping or should I buy another GIZMO and get a Valle de Verre hammer?

TIA

Ciao

Vic LaGreca

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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 07:52:36 1998
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "Molly Keys" <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Aggies
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 09:36:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.43632.0>
Precedence: bulk

geez..i though aggies  were marbles.  guess it depends where you grew up.

my best,
pj
-----Original Message-----
From: Molly Keys <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 10:32 PM
Subject: Aggies


>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0066_01BE2088.E1C55680
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>I just couldn't resist sharing this with you'all.  I know there have to =
>be a few fellow Aggies out there in "Bungi Land".
>
>How 'bout them  Aggies!  Whoop!  Whoop!
>
>For those who don't know what I'm talking about, it's football!
>
>Couldn't resist.
>Gig'em
>Molly Keys
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0066_01BE2088.E1C55680
>Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
><HTML>
><HEAD>
>
><META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
>http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
><META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I just couldn't resist sharing this =
>with=20
>you'all.&nbsp; I know there have to be a few fellow Aggies out there in=20
>&quot;Bungi Land&quot;.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>How 'bout them&nbsp; Aggies!&nbsp; =
>Whoop!&nbsp;=20
>Whoop!</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>For those who don't know what I'm =
>talking about,=20
>it's football!</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Couldn't resist.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
>size=3D2>Gig'em</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Molly =
>Keys</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0066_01BE2088.E1C55680--
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 08:51:28 1998
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X-Path: hal-pc.org!kkelly
From: "Kathryn C. Kelly" <kkelly@hal-pc.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 10:05:29 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.4529.0>
Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users
Precedence: bulk

Aggies are OK (Texas A&M University)  ------- 
but T Sippers (University of Texas at Austin) are better!

Speaking of UT, can anyone suggest a good source for glass which is the
color of burnt orange?  Too many shades have too much yellow.

Kathryn

PS.  I have been accused of bleeding burnt orange!
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 09:21:19 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!JKSinrod
From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: seaspray@mail.island.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Mixing copper foil in a lead project?
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 10:41:46 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.154146.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 12/6/98 2:16:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
seaspray@mail.island.net writes:

<< Subj:	 Re: Mixing copper foil in a lead project?
 Date:	12/6/98 2:16:57 AM Eastern Standard Time
 From:	seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
 To:	glass@bungi.com
 
 >>Sure you can mix the two techniques. In fact, in the window you 
 >describe mixing lead and foil seems like the best choice. 
 >
 >When finishing the lead/foil window I recommend you putty the leaded 
 >portion first and patina the foiled portion second. 
 
 Actually, you won't need to patina the foiled portion at all.  A little
 trick I learned from Dani Greer...use a natural bristle brush and the
 whiting from the putty process will patina the solder on the copper foil
 portion to the same lovely dark colour as the lead came.  It'll look great
 
 C.
 
 Carol Swann >>

   Actually Carol it's not the whiting, but the natural bristles that do it to
any lead. 
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 09:50:15 1998
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: "Barking" the edges of glass panels
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:53:12 -0800
Message-ID: <199812061653.IAA15961@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

>I picked up an order of 1/2 & 3/4 inch glass from the glaziers this weekend
>to carve for use in my home.  When I ordered the glass I asked that one of
>the panels be polished on only one long side (3') and up 18" of the two
>short sides (2').  My reason for this was that I want to "Bark" or chip the
>top and 6+/-" of the sides for effect.  I was told that polished edges
>could not be chipped, with no explanation as to why.
>
>My questions:
>
>A.	Is this true? 

Depends on whether you're using a German Shepherd or a chihuahua. The
chihuahua's high piercing bark is good for crystalline glass, while the
German Shepherd's deep resonating bark will break the edges of any piece, no
matter how thick.  

I know Toby can usually be contracted for this type of work, however I
believe he's currently frothing at the mouth from missing so many emails.
I'm unsure what size of glass he specializes in though.

Carol

(Sorry Vic...left yourself wide open on that one...and I just finished my
open house last night...last show of the season done...yippee...time for a
little hilarity...either that or I ate the worm when I took that last slug
of tequila)

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 10:19:32 1998
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Bio #75 Donna Harris
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:53:07 -0800
Message-ID: <199812061653.IAA15945@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Donna

Sounds like you've done some interesting work and you do it on your terms in
a way that is satisfying, rather than draining to you.  Congratulations.

So despite some of the rather intriguing suggestions for hiding elephants
that have been presented so far on bungi (in the fridge E? how big is your
fridge?), here's one that might have a little taste of what you're looking for.

You might want to get hold of some of Bev Doolittle's work and have a look
at that.  She's absolutely masterful at hiding animal faces (and sometimes
humans) in her work.  I have absolutely no idea how one would replicate this
work in glass though.  For instance, look at one of her rocks long enough
and it becomes a native elder or a grizzly.

Good luck

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 10:39:35 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:40:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.74042.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Kathryn C. Kelly"
>Speaking of UT, can anyone suggest a good source for glass which is the
color of burnt orange?  Too many shades have too much yellow.<

I think Armstrong has a very strong burnt orange that
will be just right for the UT stuff.

Christie A. Wood (formerly from Dallas)
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 11:00:33 1998
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 10:57:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.55757.0>
References: <<1998Dec5.143737.0>>
Precedence: bulk



Byron Wells wrote:

> I'm in the process of drawing up plans for a new workshop for my glass
> biz.... I've outgrown the 2 rooms in the house I now use...
>
> Are there any things I need to make room for that you have in your shop or
> wish you had made room for??
>

I usually have several projects going at once ( do smaller items, generally less
than a foot square), and keep them separated on styrofoam trays (saved from
lunch at work).  I never have enough room to stack those trays!

Dorothy K

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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 11:08:25 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS
From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Walt Disney World
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:45:47 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.174547.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-12-06 03:26:52 EST, rejones@netrax.net writes:

<< 
 I just got back from a trip to Walt Disney World.
 
 There are glass mosaics in Cinderella's Castle that are incredible, in both
 size and color.  If you get a chance, go see them.
 
 Bob
 
  >>


Yes, it's wonderful . I have photos of it.


Dianne
 <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/3856/holidays.html">Happy
Holidays From FL</A>
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 11:28:42 1998
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X-Path: scc.net!oddjob
From: "Susan C. Reitmann" <oddjob@scc.net>
To: Byron Wells <byronw@eatumup.com>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Shop Ideas?
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:59:13 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.55913.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sky lights. Living in Minnesota where the sun hardly ever shines =
November to March, I am thankful that I had skylights , two of them, put =
in my studio/shop. They are however on the North-east part of the roof. =
Have had no problems with them leaking or snow build up at all.
Sue Reitmann

----------
From: 	Pat Kelly[SMTP:pkelly@n-link.com]
Sent: 	Saturday, December 05, 1998 11:34 PM
To: 	Byron Wells; glass@bungi.com
Subject: 	Re: Shop Ideas?

In my dream studio I would have a skylight. I think they call them a =
"Sun
Tunnel". It would give perfect sunlight and as an additional benefit you
wouldn't need a light during the day.


-----Original Message-----
From: Byron Wells <byronw@eatumup.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 11:15 PM
Subject: Shop Ideas?


>I'm in the process of drawing up plans for a new workshop for my glass
>biz.... I've outgrown the 2 rooms in the house I now use...
>
>Are there any things I need to make room for that you have in your shop =
or
>wish you had made room for??
>
>Right now I only do panels for homebuilders and thier customers basicly =
and
>since I take samples,photos,and a laptop right to the jobsites I have =
no
>need for a 'customer area'....Basicly I'm looking at building a 20'x36'
>building so I can have plenty of room to build multiple panels at once
>instead of having to shuffle everything around like I do now in these =
small
>rooms...Also will be having plenty of racks for glass (then maybe I'll
>actually be able to find something around here)
>
>Any ideas would be appreciated... I do want to prewire for a future =
kiln
and
>such should I buy one in the future too..
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Byron...
>Wells Glassworks
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 11:41:31 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Shop Ideas?
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:40:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.74036.0>
Precedence: bulk

Man, I wish I had planned for more large-sheet glass
storage areas.  Safe ones!  Friday afternoon I spent
4 hours at the emergency room of our local hospital
nursing my husband, who managed to very nicely
slice his index finger left hand while walking past one
of my large sheets of glass.  Three stiches.  Not good
since he's a cellist, and had a solo with an orchestra
that night.  So....SAFE storage for large pieces of glass
is a requirement, not just for you, but for anyone who
walks into your store.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 12:11:16 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Byron Wells <byronw@eatumup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 10:51:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.55124.0>
References: <<1998Dec5.143737.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Byron Wells wrote:
> 
> I'm in the process of drawing up plans for a new workshop for my glass
> biz.... I've outgrown the 2 rooms in the house I now use...
> 
> Are there any things I need to make room for that you have in your shop or
> wish you had made room for??
> 
> Right now I only do panels for homebuilders and thier customers basicly and
> since I take samples,photos,and a laptop right to the jobsites I have no
> need for a 'customer area'....Basicly I'm looking at building a 20'x36'
> building so I can have plenty of room to build multiple panels at once
> instead of having to shuffle everything around like I do now in these small
> rooms...Also will be having plenty of racks for glass (then maybe I'll
> actually be able to find something around here)
> 
> Any ideas would be appreciated... I do want to prewire for a future kiln and
> such should I buy one in the future too..
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Byron...
> Wells Glassworks
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


about a year ago we discussed this subject pretty well. though here are
a few other ideas.

1. be sure to have at least one sink, for general washing. 
2. if it's a seperate building from the house, a toilet might be a good
idea.
3. be sure to run lot's of eletrical lines (outlets and such). maybe a
few hanging from the ceilng would help in the future. 
4. run air lines throughout the shop, even if you don't have an air
compressor now. if you don't have one, get one. it's just so darned
useful, it's great to use it for dusting off a bench, floor, etc.
5. maybe central vaccuming, that's kind of fancy though.


6. roll away glass carts.
7. roll away benches, a large bench with wheels to move it where you
like it. it can be stored up against the wall.
8. a large flat sink to wash off the windows.
9. lot's of windows to add extra daylight. maybe even an area to hold
your glass in front of the window.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 12:40:07 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Toby is back!
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:35:39 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.63539.0>
Precedence: bulk

Oh no, my nemesis is again online. I told you see would deluge the list, and
she has been drinking again.

I hope when she comes to W-C she sobers up, if its one thing I don't care
for is impressionist stained glass.

BTW when is she coming? I have to make arrangements (to be out of the
country of course). This country is not big enough for both of us pilgrim.

New subject:  Aluminum gnomon, That's a great idea!

Next Subject:  Bios, bios, bios, etc. I need bios. I have nagged and nagged
now I am pleading. Please. It's a terrible thing to see a bald headed,
hairless legged, damaged gnomon, prima ballerina on his knees.

Next Subject:  Went to see Molly Key's work on Friday. Just one word - WOW!.
3D flowers look sooo real.

Got to go cut some fingers .... oh I mean glass.



Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 12:42:03 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Walt Disney World
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:40:40 -0500
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Message text written by Bob Jones
>There are glass mosaics in Cinderella's Castle that are incredible, in
both
size and color.  If you get a chance, go see them.<

Yes, I saw them when I was last down there (2 years ago).
You have to go inside the center opening in the Castle.
It's incredible the amount of detail in there!

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 13:44:33 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Orange glass was:  Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:15:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.10150.0>
Precedence: bulk

I guess we should find out if Kathryn is
looking for an opal or cathedral.  For =

Colorado landscapes, we sometimes
use Bullseye salmon pink and then
modify the color with the deep flesh-tone
and brown kiln-fired paints.  It yields a =

very nice result, but it's a problem if
you don't have a kiln.  I haven't had any
luck at all modifying glass using frits
and powders.... maybe I'm doing something
way wrong, but the results are completely
insipid. I know other folks have had
good luck with that approach, so maybe
they can comment.

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 14:15:31 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Kathryn C. Kelly" <kkelly@hal-pc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Burnt orange was: Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:15:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.10155.0>
Precedence: bulk

The best burnt orange was
Desag SA, which isn't being
manufactured anymore.  Lamberts
has some cathedrals, too (#2086), =

but this color is hard to come by.
You might try a medium amber from
Spectrum which costs a lot less.  It's
true, manufacturers don't make the colors they
used to - subtlety is not a valid concept
these days.  Try to find a really good range
of cobalts sometime!

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 14:24:59 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: "Barking" the edges of glass panels
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:15:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.10159.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Vic-

Get a dalle de Verre knapping hammer -
hooray another gizmo! -- in this case, the
proper tool will probably give you a better
result.  (Michael says, you'll get a greater
degree of control than with a stone hammer.)

I don't know why you couldn't knap a polished
edge - maybe when you said "chip" the person
thought you meant glue-chipping (?)  Beats
me.  =


Just curious, how much do you pay for polishing
out your way?

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 15:29:08 1998
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From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Carol Swann" <seaspray@mail.island.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: "Barking" the edges of glass panels
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:54:56 -0500
Message-ID: <19981206225044.MAJZ4525@vic>
Precedence: bulk

Carol:	No problem, I was laughing to myself as I typed the Subject line and
thought of the possible interpretations..  

You will love my next query. It will be about "streaky" glass.

Ciao

Vic


----------
> From: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: "Barking" the edges of glass panels
> Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 11:53 AM
> 
> >I picked up an order of 1/2 & 3/4 inch glass from the glaziers this
weekend
> >to carve for use in my home.  When I ordered the glass I asked that one
of
> >the panels be polished on only one long side (3') and up 18" of the two
> >short sides (2').  My reason for this was that I want to "Bark" or chip
the
> >top and 6+/-" of the sides for effect.  I was told that polished edges
> >could not be chipped, with no explanation as to why.
> >
> >My questions:
> >
> >A.	Is this true? 
> 
> Depends on whether you're using a German Shepherd or a chihuahua. The
> chihuahua's high piercing bark is good for crystalline glass, while the
> German Shepherd's deep resonating bark will break the edges of any piece,
no
> matter how thick.  
> 
> I know Toby can usually be contracted for this type of work, however I
> believe he's currently frothing at the mouth from missing so many emails.
> I'm unsure what size of glass he specializes in though.
> 
> Carol
> 
> (Sorry Vic...left yourself wide open on that one...and I just finished my
> open house last night...last show of the season done...yippee...time for
a
> little hilarity...either that or I ate the worm when I took that last
slug
> of tequila)
> 
> Carol Swann
> Synergy Glass & Creative
> http://www.igga.org/synergy
> seaspray@island.net
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 16:29:51 1998
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From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: "Barking" the edges of glass panels
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 18:43:39 -0500
Message-ID: <19981206233942.EXLQ588@vic>
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Dani:	Thank you for your response to my call for HELP!

I will buy the dalle de Verre "knapping" hammer.  Nothing like having the
right tool to do a job.  Gizmo?  What's a Gizmo?

I don't have the invoice in front of me but I believe the polishing came to
$.80 a running foot for the 1/2 inch glass.  The glass itself was
$15.00/SF.  How does this compare?  I have not shopped these prices.  The
Guy I deal with has a young family and seems to be struggling and I want to
see them do better.

Ciao

Vic

----------
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Vic <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: all <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: "Barking" the edges of glass panels
Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 3:15 PM

Hi Vic-

Get a dalle de Verre knapping hammer -
hooray another gizmo! -- in this case, the
proper tool will probably give you a better
result.  (Michael says, you'll get a greater
degree of control than with a stone hammer.)

I don't know why you couldn't knap a polished
edge - maybe when you said "chip" the person
thought you meant glue-chipping (?)  Beats
me.  

Just curious, how much do you pay for polishing
out your way?

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  
----------

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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 17:04:35 1998
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: inane chatter
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 19:03:15 EST
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In a message dated 12/5/98 3:47:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes:

<< Oh, well. Most of life's off topic, so why not part of the bungi 
 chat? >>


I guess the why not is that over time, the board begins to change
and the off topic items tend to eclipse the the glass items.

Like every thing else, I suppose its a balance.    

Couple of years ago, glass @bungi was so bad with the flaming
and off topic stuff, I turned it off.  It was like the great glass tips
and advice had disappeared into the noise.  
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 18:15:26 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, vlg@worldnet.att.net
Subject: "Barking" the edges of glass panels
Date: Sun,  6 Dec 1998 19:30:33, -0500
Message-ID: <199812070030.TAA07002@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

Vic,
You can chip the edge of a piece of glass rather it be ground smooth 
or fresh cut. Does not seem to make any difference.

My chipping hammer is only about 6 ounces and has a blunt chisel 
carbide tip. For casual use a tool steel tip kept sharpened should 
work just as well. You might be able to get away with using a 1/2" 
wide cold chisel and an ordinary hammer. It doesn't take much of a 
blow. Wear safety glasses and be careful because the shards are 
sharper than anything Gillette ever sold.

Take a few minutes to practice and develop your technique. I do not 
chip often and always take a few minutes to practice. 

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:        glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 19:17:32 1998
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 20:56:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.155655.0>
References: <<1998Dec6.74036.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Here is a site with the Tubular skylights, lets in defused light, not a
blinding glare.  Some have a 45 degree bend and mirror, to bring it from
one side of a building to another.

Not affiliated in any way with them, just think it is a great idea.

http://www.tubular-skylight.com/home2.htm

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

Back to cleaning up the studio, so I can work more.
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 20:20:57 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Bob Jones <rejones@netrax.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Walt Disney World
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 22:02:00 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.1620.0>
References: <<1998Dec5.212224.0>>
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> I just got back from a trip to Walt Disney World.
> 
> There are glass mosaics in Cinderella's Castle that are incredible, in both
> size and color.  If you get a chance, go see them.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 


I spent a week there this week last year, Bob.  Although we spent most
of our time in epcot we did spend some time in the Magic Kingdom...and
man...you arent kidding about those mosaics.
I spent a fair amount of time there...contimplating the difficulty of
the work and the size.  I could only imagine how many times a person
would have to stand way back to look at their work.  Very impressive.
My other favorite part of the trip was seeing Louis Gossett Jr tell the
story of Christmas with a 50 peice orchestra and forgot how many hundred
voice choir.  Emotional as I am, I found myself moved to tears more than
once.  So embarrassing to be so emotional! ;o)  Anyway...that man has
such an amazing voice.  My sister got the tickets as a surprise to me
very early on (as she knew how I would love it) and we got very very
good seats. (Just behind Mr Gosset's family!)  Also got me the CD of the
performance.  ;o)  Was a memorable night for me.

Suzanne

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 20:39:33 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4
From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Studio Beveler
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:27:53 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.32753.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bryon, I think that it all depends on what you are going to use the bevel
machine for. I actually have not used a Gemstone bevel machine, but I am sure
that for doing small jobs such as cut offs that it would probably work fine,
where you might run into problems is when you try to do long straight lines
that is where most of the smaller machines can be frustrating but I believe
that with enough patience and practice one can master anything.They have a
class on these bevelers at the show in Vegas, perhaps it would be worth it to
go try one first hand with someone there who could show you and answer all of
your questions. Beveler4(Stan)
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 21:34:27 1998
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From: Romajoco@aol.com
To: pkelly@n-link.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Toby is back!
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:48:39 EST
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In a message dated 12/6/98 2:40:44 PM Central Standard Time, pkelly@n-link.com
writes:

<< Next Subject:  Went to see Molly Key's work on Friday. Just one word -
WOW!.
 3D flowers look sooo real.
  >>

yes.....please send.

Margie
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 21:52:55 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Hot dogs for supper!
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 23:05:17 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.17517.0>
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Again! ;o)  In other words, not the wonderful Italian dinner I had
fantasies of yesterday!

The show was disapointing to everyone. Yesterday was a gorgeous sunny
and warm day.  Today started very similarly, but started a downpour
about 20 minutes before the show opened.  Oh joy.

 I felt very good about both my work and display.  The work of the past
13 days or so did not pay off financially today (which we really could
have used) but I think some work will come of it.  Lots of people showed
alot of interest in *my original* work.  This was very pleasing.  Alot
of people showed interest and asked good questions and took cards and
flyers.  Some just took cards.  About 5 told me they would get in touch
with me after Christmas.  

One woman showed more interest than anyone, and had more than a limited
knowledge of stained glass work, and is interested in my making a pretty
stone for her 2 month old baby girls' grave.  I have cried over that one
more than once today!  See why I want to stay out of social work?

Anyway...she and I exchanged email addresses...she is going home to
Texas...and I will send her pictures of ideas...she is interested in 
a small lamb or cherub type angel.  I told her I would get some ideas to
her soon...and promised I could do something appropriate and make it
very reasonable. (I will do it cheap for her)

I was surprised that most interest was shown in my stones.  They are
pretty...but didnt expect the interest (even without a sale) I was not
expected to sell one as so many recently have said they havent sold a
stone at their most recent shows.  I figure they will sell much better
come spring and gardening season.

One elderly woman, stated she wanted a stained glass window put into her
bathroom... I wont worry about that one unless I hear from her
again...**then refer her elswhere! ;o) (I am not remotely qualified for
an installation)

I did make back my booth fee and a bit more...but cost in prep for the
show far exceed any brought in by the show.  

I had several people tell me that they make stained glass stones, but
not a pretty as mine...and asked for advice.  Asked lots of questions
about concrete.

Two women from the school said they have a big project they are working
on for the grounds and are interested in dicussing with me the
possibility of my doing something decorative with stained glass and
concrete in the middle of it to brighten it all up. Could be a good
thing...Got different messages from each woman....(they need to talk
amongst themselves awhile).  Gave them some names of some people that
can help them with the other part of the project (including Seattles
Pikes Place Market, who did a similar fund raising project about 14 yrs
ago)

Well...sorry to turn into a book...the show was not really good, but not
really bad....time will tell whether the exposure did any good or not!
;o)

Kind of wish for my husbands' sake I had had better sales... Think he
was really expecting more, as was I.  I really expected to sell all of
my ornaments.  My snowman ornaments were a hit.  People really liked
them.

There was one guy there with hot glass...(beautiful work) said it was an
awful show for him today.  I dont think anyone sold much...and there was
very little traffic.  Way too few people showed.

Not too disapointed, but damn the weather.
Tulsa Suzanne


-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 22:05:54 1998
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From: "Kathy Mather" <katmath@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: jewlery 
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 20:57:55 PST
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Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
   Does anyone out there have the name of a jewelry supply catalog, I 
need to make some  stuff to make pieces for a small show that I'm doing 
for mother's day. Any help that you folks could give me would be 
appreciated, thanks.
                        Kathy 

______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 22:43:40 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 00:21:34 -0600
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Oh yes...and I sold the same angel several times, and *I* still have it!
;o)  Guess I will deliver it to my *friend that paid for it first
tomorrow! Another friend came, 
bought 5 of my $10 ornaments, and the same angel! ;o)
Thank God for friends who come to see you at your first show! ;o)  Kathy
and Diane paid for my booth fee, and the hotdogs!  Guess I owe em one,
eh?  Maybe I should baby sit for Kathy to go out for Italian! 

My advice to anyone doing their first show?  Do one close to home so you 
can send your husband to go buy more garland/lights/table/ etc. 
And...invite all your friends to come see you there! ;o)

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sun Dec  6 23:42:18 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Kathy Mather" <katmath@hotmail.com>, "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: jewlery 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 01:28:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec6.202846.0>
Precedence: bulk

Kathy,  try this site.   www.firemountaingems.com/   They sell just about
everything jewelry related.
Karen

>Hi all,
>   Does anyone out there have the name of a jewelry supply catalog, I
>need to make some  stuff to make pieces for a small show that I'm doing
>for mother's day. Any help that you folks could give me would be
>appreciated, thanks.
>                        Kathy
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 00:01:42 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, katmath@hotmail.com
Subject: jewlery 
Date: Mon,  7 Dec 1998 01:20:51, -0500
Message-ID: <199812070620.BAA14488@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Does anyone out there have the name of a jewelry supply catalog, I 

need to make some  stuff to make pieces for a small show that I'm 
doing 
for mother's day. Any help that you folks could give me would be 
appreciated, thanks.
                        Kathy <<

One good source of jems, findings and tools is:   http://www.
riogrande.com 
You can register there to receive their three free catalogs. They are 
in NM and have served me well.

Bob

____
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 06:21:15 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Kathy Mather <katmath@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: jewlery
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 07:18:50 -0600
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Precedence: bulk

Hi KAthy.

Yesterday the gal at the next booth and I were talking suppliers and
costs etc...she mentioned a supplier I hadnt heard of before. She said
she has used Rio Grande some but these other peoples'prices were
lower...I cant remember the name.  BUT.  We traded cards.  I will call
her this morning after I get Emily to school and ask her the name
again.  Let you know what I find out soon.  Seems like it was something
like Coty?  OR Cody?  

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 07:06:53 1998
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Subject: Re: Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 08:57:44 -0500
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Kathryn C. Kelly wrote:

> Speaking of UT, can anyone suggest a good source for glass which is the
> color of burnt orange?  Too many shades have too much yellow.
>
> Kathryn
>

Yeah, I've had a hard time finding a good cat color in orange....

(Kathryn, my sister graduated from UT Austin.  What a lovely campus and
city!)

Dorothy K

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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Walt Disney World
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:15:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.41517.0>
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Suzanne wrote:
> 
> > I just got back from a trip to Walt Disney World.
> >
> > There are glass mosaics in Cinderella's Castle that are incredible, in both
> > size and color.  If you get a chance, go see them.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> 
> I spent a week there this week last year, Bob.  Although we spent most
> of our time in epcot we did spend some time in the Magic Kingdom...and
> man...you arent kidding about those mosaics.
> I spent a fair amount of time there...contimplating the difficulty of
> the work and the size.  I could only imagine how many times a person
> would have to stand way back to look at their work.  Very impressive.
> My other favorite part of the trip was seeing Louis Gossett Jr tell the
> story of Christmas with a 50 peice orchestra and forgot how many hundred
> voice choir.  Emotional as I am, I found myself moved to tears more than
> once.  So embarrassing to be so emotional! ;o)  Anyway...that man has
> such an amazing voice.  My sister got the tickets as a surprise to me
> very early on (as she knew how I would love it) and we got very very
> good seats. (Just behind Mr Gosset's family!)  Also got me the CD of the
> performance.  ;o)  Was a memorable night for me.
> 
> Suzanne
> 
> Suzanne
> --
> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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the way i imagined how i would make something large, or photographic
like is this: i would make it up on the computer, then enlarge it and
somehow print it. maybe even allow it to pixalize a little. the
photo/printed section would be glue in place, or traced onto the wall,
and i'd go by that...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 07:41:20 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Kathy Mather <katmath@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: jewlery
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:17:52 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

Kathy Mather wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>    Does anyone out there have the name of a jewelry supply catalog, I
> need to make some  stuff to make pieces for a small show that I'm doing
> for mother's day. Any help that you folks could give me would be
> appreciated, thanks.
>                         Kathy
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


http://www.riogrande.com/
 is the biggest one i know of, just be sure to mention which catalog you
want, tools, jewels, or displays.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 08:49:53 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
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Subject: Re:  Non glass, but I could use some was: Tequila, was Re: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:09:56 EST
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In a message dated 12/4/98 12:34:32 PM, shyguy@vdot.net wrote:

>and more:
>Q. Why is there a worm in a tequila bottle?
>A. There isn't! There is no worm in tequila. Repeat, there is no
>worm in tequila. The worm is found, quite dead and pickled, only
>in mezcal.

Hmmmmmmmm........ That doesn't explain the bottle of "Tequila con guzano" that
a couple of my college buddies once brought back from a day trip across the
border. It was definitely labeled tequila, and there sure enough was a dead
critter in the bottom of the bottle!

I still think I'll stick to good old vino.


Sparks
<hic>
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 09:40:48 1998
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Subject: Re:  Re: Tequila, was Re: Introduction & Foiler
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In a message dated 12/4/98 9:37:26 PM, wickline@i2020.net wrote:

>El hombre que tom=F3 la =FAltima bebida tiene que comer el
>gusano.  Is that what you needed?

No, I couldn't remember how to say "Sparks."


Sparks

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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 09:42:05 1998
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Subject: Re:  my show **and inane chatter
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In a message dated 12/5/98 1:58:33 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>Ok Howard...using those big words again, what's "tref"?

Non-Kosher. Often spelled "trayf."


Sparks
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In a message dated 12/4/98 7:15:09 PM, pkelly@n-link.com wrote:

>The Prima Ballerina never ..... never has a partner.

HAH!!!!!! I'd like to see you lift yourself in the air in one of those
spectacular pas de deux's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sparks, grand jete'ing outta here before the Prima Ballerina sicks "le chien
lunatique" on my gnomon
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 10:13:51 1998
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Subject: Re:  Re: Aggies
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:07:01 EST
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In a message dated 12/6/98 10:53:16 AM, artglass@waterw.com wrote:

>geez..i though aggies  were marbles.  guess it depends where you grew up.
>
>my best,
>pj

OK, so the Aggies got lucky...... They just better not try taking on the
Steelies (oops, I mean Steelers)!

Sorry, couldn't resist.........


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 10:18:40 1998
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Subject: Re:  RE: #75 How do you hide and elephant?
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:06:59 EST
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Also sprach our resident Prima Ballerina, pkelly@n-link.com:

>Hiding the elephant is not hard. Its trying to cover up the smell of peanuts
>that's hard.

That's easy. Just set out a couple of bowls of mixed nuts, like you would for
a party, then people will think nothing of the peanut smell.

Now, covering up the smell of the *result* of the elephant's eating the
peanuts, *that's* hard!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 10:38:07 1998
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A long time ago in a galaxy far away, grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net wrote:

>Poor Ed.....Guess someone else ate his worm...or something
>
>Arnold

I'm not goin' there ----------- oops, looks like I just did ;-)

Honi soit qui mal y pense......


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 10:41:18 1998
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From: Rachel Ammann <rammann@tripos.com>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Orange glass was:  Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 10:26:32 -0600
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References: <<1998Dec6.10150.0>>
Organization: Tripos, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Can you please give more info about your lack of
success with frits & powders?

- What brand glass - spectrum, bullseye, fusible/non
fusible?
- What brand frits/powders?
- How did you apply them?
- How did you fuse them?
- What was the problem? Frits did not stick? Looked
granular?

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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 11:01:08 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Walt Disney World
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:34:21 +0000
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> From:          "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
> To:            glass@bungi.com
> Subject:       Re: Walt Disney World
> Date:          Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:15:17 -0500

> Suzanne wrote:
> > 
> > > I just got back from a trip to Walt Disney World.
> > >
> > > There are glass mosaics in Cinderella's Castle that are incredible, in both
> > > size and color.  If you get a chance, go see them.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >

> the way i imagined how i would make something large, or photographic
> like is this: i would make it up on the computer, then enlarge it and
> somehow print it. maybe even allow it to pixalize a little.

Of course, anything generated from a computer image is going to be 
pixilated. The more you enlarge it, the larger the pixels will be, 
although their size could be smaller or larger depending on the 
resolution of the image. It'd be an interesting approach to mosaic.

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 11:08:04 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re:  Breaking Glass
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:06:58 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.16658.0>
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In a message dated 12/5/98 12:16:43 PM, leestat7@home.com wrote:

>I have a project right now that calls for frosted "Beach Glass"  I need
>to break up 5-10 pounds of glass scrap into 1" to 2" inch pieces. [...]
>I don't have a sledge hammer, and don't really want to 'crush' it
>, just get it into smaller pieces.

A brick or good-sized rock works just fine....... sometimes low-tech is what's
called for!


Sparks

whose family knows that anyone who dares touch the assortment of rocks and
bricks next to the back door of the garage is TOAST - those are some of my
tools, durn burn it!
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 11:14:24 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: jewelry
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 10:27:00 -0600
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Found the website for Bally Bead Company
http://www.ballybead.com/
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 11:26:54 1998
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
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Subject: Re: Bad foil job
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:15:25 -0800 (PST)
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Hi Jim:  The question of whether to patch a foiled section or re-do it
depends.  If the section with the bad foil is on the inside (you will be
soldering it against another piece) go ahead and patch.  If the section to
be resoldered is on the outside and will show, be sure the foil starts and
stops so it is on the inside and will be soldered with another piece.  The
reason for this is that solder will not cover the seam where you try to
join it.  If this is on the outside, it will show.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 11:32:14 1998
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From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
To: chrisg@kos.net (Chris Gundersen), glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Math quiz?
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 10:02:12 -0800
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At 08:58 AM 12/5/98 -0800, Chris Gundersen wrote:
>Had a small problem that I'm sure someone with math skills could assist me
with.
>I want to build a lampshade with x number of sides and know the diameter at
>the top and bottom. How can I calculate the angle that I must cut all the
>sides so that everything will line up properly. I hate to make cutouts of
>cardboard when I know this is the computer age.
>Thanks Chris
>

Trick question...to figure out the angle, you need to know the panel's
height, too.  What you can determine easily is the approximate length of
the top and bottom edges of each panel.  Here goes...

Figure out the circumference (length around a circle) of the top and bottom
openings by multiplying their diameters by everyone's favorite Greek letter
pi, which is 3.14 plus change.  Then divide the top circumference by the
number of panels to get the length of the top edge.  Do a similar division
to get the length of the bottom edge.  You can then draw a trapezoidal
template of whatever height you like.  Just make sure you center the top
edge horizontally over the bottom edge.

If you *really* need to figure out angles, the angle between the bottom
edge and a side is

   angle = arctangent (2 * h / (b - t))

where h is the panel height, b is the length of the bottom edge and t is
the length of the top edge.  The angle between the top edge and a side is
180 degrees minus the angle you just calculated.

Let me know privately if you need to be really precise.  I would hate to
interrupt the tequilla thread with a bunch of equations ;-)  The
approximation gets better as the number of sides increases, that is, as the
shade gets closer and closer to being circular.  For an 8-sided shade, for
example, this approximation overestimates top and bottom edge lengths by
about 3%.  Also, as the diameters get larger you can safely ignore the
distinction between inside and outside diameter arising from glass
thickness.  

Bonus round...who has a formula for the height of the shade given the panel
height and the information Chris provided???

Steve


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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 12:53:38 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Husband's OK, thanks
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:37:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.93721.0>
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My finger-sliced husband is OK.  Three stiches come
out next Monday.  He was unable to play at the Friday
night concert (he's principal cellist), but the 2nd cellist
filled in and did a wonderful job.  Saved the concert.
Now I have to wash George's hair every day.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
----
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 13:27:19 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Burnt orange was: Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:37:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.93718.0>
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Message text written by Dani Greer
>The best burnt orange was
Desag SA, which isn't being
manufactured anymore.  Lamberts
has some cathedrals, too (#2086), =

but this color is hard to come by<

I think I have a quarter sheet of one of these.
Actually, it looks like orange flashed onto
clear.  I got it from a friend who doesn't know
anything about glass.  I really haven't found
a use for orange/clear flash glass, so am just
keeping it around.  Anyone have any ideas?

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
----
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 13:46:49 1998
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From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Sorry Ed!
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:53:31 -0000
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Dear All

Many years ago when, I was a little boy, my American father (also an Ed!)
used to recite to me  the poem that starts

'Twas the night before Christmas and all through  the house
Not a creature was stirring - not even a mouse'

I'm sorry to say that I can't remember any more than that. It was quite
magical to me, very much part of Christmas and a very dear memory of him.
Now that I have a grandson I would like him to share that memory.

So maybe someone out there in Bungi Land be very kind and jot down the rest
for me?  Fax or snail mail if that's easier. I would be eternally grateful.

Brian


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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 14:11:20 1998
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From: Rachel Ammann <rammann@tripos.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Breaking Glass
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 13:53:51 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.75351.0>
References: <<1998Dec7.16658.0>>
Organization: Tripos, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Randomly broken pieces (using sledge, hammer, go over
with car wheel etc.) will be randomly sized. You cannot
really control size this way.  Make sure your pieces
are not too small to begin with since they will only
get smaller.

Be careful not to contaminate the glass when breaking.
There's all sorts of metal particles (solder, lead)
that can scratch the glass if they get into the
tumbler.  Clean off the glass before breaking.  If you
do the breaking in a bucket, clean the bucket first.
If you put pieces into a bag, be careful, the bag will
surely tear (at least a little).

Small pieces will "disappear" in  a tumbler.  That is,
they get ground up into dust.  Generally, it is good to
have some small pieces in the tumbler.  They help get
into the nooks and crannies along other pieces' edges.

----
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 15:02:24 1998
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Hot dogs for supper!
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:03:37 -0500
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Suzanne,   Keep the faith....Good things will come from your effort...You
just took the first step in building your reputation as a careing and
talented artist.

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 1:02 AM
Subject: Hot dogs for supper!


>Again! ;o)  In other words, not the wonderful Italian dinner I had
>fantasies of yesterday!
>
>The show was disapointing to everyone. Yesterday was a gorgeous sunny
>and warm day.  Today started very similarly, but started a downpour
>about 20 minutes before the show opened.  Oh joy.
>
> I felt very good about both my work and display.  The work of the past
>13 days or so did not pay off financially today (which we really could
>have used) but I think some work will come of it.  Lots of people showed
>alot of interest in *my original* work.  This was very pleasing.  Alot
>of people showed interest and asked good questions and took cards and
>flyers.  Some just took cards.  About 5 told me they would get in touch
>with me after Christmas.
>
>One woman showed more interest than anyone, and had more than a limited
>knowledge of stained glass work, and is interested in my making a pretty
>stone for her 2 month old baby girls' grave.  I have cried over that one
>more than once today!  See why I want to stay out of social work?
>
>Anyway...she and I exchanged email addresses...she is going home to
>Texas...and I will send her pictures of ideas...she is interested in
>a small lamb or cherub type angel.  I told her I would get some ideas to
>her soon...and promised I could do something appropriate and make it
>very reasonable. (I will do it cheap for her)
>
>I was surprised that most interest was shown in my stones.  They are
>pretty...but didnt expect the interest (even without a sale) I was not
>expected to sell one as so many recently have said they havent sold a
>stone at their most recent shows.  I figure they will sell much better
>come spring and gardening season.
>
>One elderly woman, stated she wanted a stained glass window put into her
>bathroom... I wont worry about that one unless I hear from her
>again...**then refer her elswhere! ;o) (I am not remotely qualified for
>an installation)
>
>I did make back my booth fee and a bit more...but cost in prep for the
>show far exceed any brought in by the show.
>
>I had several people tell me that they make stained glass stones, but
>not a pretty as mine...and asked for advice.  Asked lots of questions
>about concrete.
>
>Two women from the school said they have a big project they are working
>on for the grounds and are interested in dicussing with me the
>possibility of my doing something decorative with stained glass and
>concrete in the middle of it to brighten it all up. Could be a good
>thing...Got different messages from each woman....(they need to talk
>amongst themselves awhile).  Gave them some names of some people that
>can help them with the other part of the project (including Seattles
>Pikes Place Market, who did a similar fund raising project about 14 yrs
>ago)
>
>Well...sorry to turn into a book...the show was not really good, but not
>really bad....time will tell whether the exposure did any good or not!
>;o)
>
>Kind of wish for my husbands' sake I had had better sales... Think he
>was really expecting more, as was I.  I really expected to sell all of
>my ornaments.  My snowman ornaments were a hit.  People really liked
>them.
>
>There was one guy there with hot glass...(beautiful work) said it was an
>awful show for him today.  I dont think anyone sold much...and there was
>very little traffic.  Way too few people showed.
>
>Not too disapointed, but damn the weather.
>Tulsa Suzanne
>
>
>--
>~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 17:43:45 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Brian Shepherd <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Merry Christmas Brian
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 16:22:14 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.102214.0>
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The internet is a wonderful thing.

More Christmas Stories and Poems

http://www.night.net/christmas/poems12.html-ssi


'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house
            Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse;
            The stockings were hung by the chimney with care,
            In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there; 

            The children were nestled all snug in their beds,
            While visions of sugar-plums danced in their heads;
            And mamma in her 'kerchief, and I in my cap,
            Had just settled down for a long winter's nap, 

            When out on the lawn there arose such a clatter,
            I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
            Away to the window I flew like a flash,
            Tore open the shutters and threw up the sash. 

The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow
         Gave the lustre of mid-day to objects below,
         When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
         But a miniature sleigh, and eight tiny reindeer, 

         With a little old driver, so lively and quick,
         I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick.
         More rapid than eagles his coursers they came,
         And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;

                                                                                       
         "Now, DASHER! now, DANCER! now, PRANCER and VIXEN!
         On, COMET! on CUPID! on, DONDER and BLITZEN!
         To the top of the porch! to the top of the wall!
         Now dash away! dash away! dash away all!" 

         As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly,
         When they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky,
         So up to the house-top the coursers they flew,
         With the sleigh full of toys, and St. Nicholas too. 

And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof
                The prancing and pawing of each little hoof.
                As I drew in my hand, and was turning around,
                Down the chimney St. Nicholas came with a bound. 

                He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot,
                And his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot;
                A bundle of toys he had flung on his back,
                And he looked like a peddler just opening his pack. 

                His eyes -- how they twinkled! his dimples how merry!
                His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
                His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
                And the beard of his chin was as white as the snow; 

                The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,
                And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath;
                He had a broad face and a little round belly,
                That shook, when he laughed like a bowlful of jelly. 
                                                                               
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,
                 And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself;
                 A wink of his eye and a twist of his head,
                 Soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread; 

                 He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
                 And filled all the stockings; then turned with a jerk,
                 And laying his finger aside of his nose,
                 And giving a nod, up the chimney he rose; 

                 He sprang to his sleigh, to his team gave a whistle,
                 And away they all flew like the down of a thistle.
                 But I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight,
                 "HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOOD-NIGHT!" 
                                                              
                                                                                




-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: math...
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:18:37 -0500
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Steve W. twisted the bytes to say:

| From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
| Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 10:02:12 -0800
| Subject: Re: Math quiz?
| 
| At 08:58 AM 12/5/98 -0800, Chris Gundersen wrote:
| >Had a small problem that I'm sure someone with math skills could assist me
| with.
| >I want to build a lampshade with x number of sides and know the diameter at
| >the top and bottom. How can I calculate the angle that I must cut all the
| >sides so that everything will line up properly. I hate to make cutouts of
| >cardboard when I know this is the computer age.
| >Thanks Chris
| >
| 
| Trick question...to figure out the angle, you need to know the panel's
| height, too.  What you can determine easily is the approximate length of
| the top and bottom edges of each panel.  Here goes...
| 
| Figure out the circumference (length around a circle) of the top and bottom
| openings by multiplying their diameters by everyone's favorite Greek letter
| pi, which is 3.14 plus change.  Then divide the top circumference by the
| number of panels to get the length of the top edge.  Do a similar division
| to get the length of the bottom edge.  You can then draw a trapezoidal
| template of whatever height you like.  Just make sure you center the top
| edge horizontally over the bottom edge.
| 
| If you *really* need to figure out angles, the angle between the bottom
| edge and a side is
| 
|    angle = arctangent (2 * h / (b - t))

| where h is the panel height, b is the length of the bottom edge and t is
| the length of the top edge.  The angle between the top edge and a side is
| 180 degrees minus the angle you just calculated.
| 
| Let me know privately if you need to be really precise.  I would hate to
| interrupt the tequilla thread with a bunch of equations ;-)  The
| approximation gets better as the number of sides increases, that is, as the
| shade gets closer and closer to being circular.  For an 8-sided shade, for
| example, this approximation overestimates top and bottom edge lengths by
| about 3%.  Also, as the diameters get larger you can safely ignore the
| distinction between inside and outside diameter arising from glass
| thickness.  
| 
| Bonus round...who has a formula for the height of the shade given the panel
| height and the information Chris provided???
| 
| Steve


Mmm, I am a little confused. Lets say this is the lamp shade:

               |<- t -->|

                --------         -
               /        \        ^
            D /          \       |
             /            \      h
            / A            \     |
           -----------------     -
           |<-     b      -->|

lets call it, as Steve did, b and t for the base and top diameter. And h
is the height. Then,  h can be described as:

                h
tangent(A) = --------- = 2*h /(b-t) (Steve's equation)
             (b-t)/2


Now, this is a panel


               |<- x ->|

                -------         -
               /       \        ^
            d /         \       |
             /           \      y
            /  B          \     |
           ----------------     -
           |<-     z      -->|



h is not the lenght of the panel, is the height of the lamp.  Now,
lets assume that you want a lamp of n sides. Since each corner of a
panel is circumscribed in the circle defined by t or b, then the
lenght of the diagonal d (in the panel) is the same as the diagonal D
in the lamp. Knowing A from the previous calculation, you can compute
d and y as:

  cos(A) = h /D , hence  d = D = h * cos (A)


Now, the trick to compute the angle B, which is what Chris wanted in
the first place, is to compute x and z. They depend on the number of
panels. Howard has suggested a simple method: divide the perimeter by
the number of sides.  So I will not cover that here, unless you want
the _precise_ size. So now we know d (equal to D), x and z. Enough to
compute y:
 
   y^2 + (z-x)^2/4 = d^2

   y = sqrt(d^2 - (z-x)^2/4)

where sqrt is the square root.  

You can also compute the angle B as follows:

   cos(B) = (z-x)/2d



I'll check this data as soon as I get home, maybe I can make a WWW
page that will compute this distances, it will be trivial. Obviously
it is needed to account for the thickness of the glass.



| 
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--
Daniel M. German                  "Reading the best writers is not
   The Western Cannon, H. Bloom -> going to make us better citizens"
http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca

 
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 18:06:53 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Math quiz?
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:29:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.12296.0>
Precedence: bulk

Oh, go ahead and break the tequila
thread, Steve!  You'll probably get
flamed, too, since equations aren't
*really related to serious glass work,
right?!!! ;-)

Happy holidays!

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 18:14:51 1998
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Twas the night!
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:48:09 -0000
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Thanks - what a nice bunch you are! 

Question well answered!

Now what about the lottery numbers for next week?

Thanks again

Brian

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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 18:16:52 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Walt Disney World
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 17:25:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.122557.0>
References: <<199812071625.LAA26114@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > From:          "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
> > To:            glass@bungi.com
> > Subject:       Re: Walt Disney World
> > Date:          Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:15:17 -0500
> 
> > Suzanne wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just got back from a trip to Walt Disney World.
> > > >
> > > > There are glass mosaics in Cinderella's Castle that are incredible, in both
> > > > size and color.  If you get a chance, go see them.
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> 
> > the way i imagined how i would make something large, or photographic
> > like is this: i would make it up on the computer, then enlarge it and
> > somehow print it. maybe even allow it to pixalize a little.
> 
> Of course, anything generated from a computer image is going to be
> pixilated. The more you enlarge it, the larger the pixels will be,
> although their size could be smaller or larger depending on the
> resolution of the image. It'd be an interesting approach to mosaic.
> 
> Albert
> ----
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unless they were vector art, then it should'nt pixelate.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 18:29:32 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Burnt orange was: Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:41:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.124133.0>
Precedence: bulk

How about sandblasted
pumpkin ornaments?  Or
you could do some really
stunning floral work with
sandblast and painting
combination.  Some orange
to add to a Frank Lloyd Wright
style done in mostly blues?
An autumn window with the
veins sandblasted into the
orange leaves?

You know, orange is not my
favorite color, but it's one I =

wouldn't want to do without
either.  It's true... blue is not
as blue can be without a bit
of orange.

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 18:32:11 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Sorry Ed!
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:41:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.124135.0>
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'Twas the night before Christmas
and all through the house
not a creature was stirring
not even a mouse...

Um....

;-)

Dani Greer (who's suffering with a bit of brainlock....)
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 18:45:28 1998
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X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass
From: "Molly Keys" <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
To: "Suzanne" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Hot dogs for supper!
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:15:51 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.121551.0>
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Suzanne,

First thing to remember is, our business is all impulse buying. They don't
need it.  You can never predict what you will do at a show or what will
sell.  It will be either the old old stuff or the new stuff.  I'm sure you
heard the "stuff" word a zillion and one times this past weekend.

Keep working on your inventory to build it up.  I'm find for me selling 10%
of my inventory at a show is good.  I carry a very large inventory and
maintain it.  I only do two or three shows a year, but from the contacts
I've made I can continue to sell from home on a consistent basis.  Another
thing you might do is start a mailing list to inform your customers and
those that are interested in your work but not ready to buy that day where
you will be showing next.

Did you make alot of Christmas ornaments?  It has been my experience that
people do not spend alot of money on holiday "stuff" glass,  except for
maybe angels and santa's.
Talk to the other vendors around you to find out where they show.  They will
be your best source on good shows and what sells for them.  Look around and
see what others are selling and I don't mean just glass.  Snowmen are big
right now, so make a few of those for your inventory.   Be alert to the
current decorating colors and whats hot and you should be okay.

Don't let this experience get you down!  My first show I went out and sat in
the sun and made a whole whopping $26.  My husband was my best supporter and
encouraged me to continue saying things would get better and they certainly
have.  I've put two girls (and they aren't cheap) through college.  The
shows will get better for you, just be patient and keep cutting.
Hope this helps.
Molly Keys

-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 12:02 AM
Subject: Hot dogs for supper!


>Again! ;o)  In other words, not the wonderful Italian dinner I had
>fantasies of yesterday!
>
>The show was disapointing to everyone. Yesterday was a gorgeous sunny
>and warm day.  Today started very similarly, but started a downpour
>about 20 minutes before the show opened.  Oh joy.
>
> I felt very good about both my work and display.  The work of the past
>13 days or so did not pay off financially today (which we really could
>have used) but I think some work will come of it.  Lots of people showed
>alot of interest in *my original* work.  This was very pleasing.  Alot
>of people showed interest and asked good questions and took cards and
>flyers.  Some just took cards.  About 5 told me they would get in touch
>with me after Christmas.
>
>One woman showed more interest than anyone, and had more than a limited
>knowledge of stained glass work, and is interested in my making a pretty
>stone for her 2 month old baby girls' grave.  I have cried over that one
>more than once today!  See why I want to stay out of social work?
>
>Anyway...she and I exchanged email addresses...she is going home to
>Texas...and I will send her pictures of ideas...she is interested in
>a small lamb or cherub type angel.  I told her I would get some ideas to
>her soon...and promised I could do something appropriate and make it
>very reasonable. (I will do it cheap for her)
>
>I was surprised that most interest was shown in my stones.  They are
>pretty...but didnt expect the interest (even without a sale) I was not
>expected to sell one as so many recently have said they havent sold a
>stone at their most recent shows.  I figure they will sell much better
>come spring and gardening season.
>
>One elderly woman, stated she wanted a stained glass window put into her
>bathroom... I wont worry about that one unless I hear from her
>again...**then refer her elswhere! ;o) (I am not remotely qualified for
>an installation)
>
>I did make back my booth fee and a bit more...but cost in prep for the
>show far exceed any brought in by the show.
>
>I had several people tell me that they make stained glass stones, but
>not a pretty as mine...and asked for advice.  Asked lots of questions
>about concrete.
>
>Two women from the school said they have a big project they are working
>on for the grounds and are interested in dicussing with me the
>possibility of my doing something decorative with stained glass and
>concrete in the middle of it to brighten it all up. Could be a good
>thing...Got different messages from each woman....(they need to talk
>amongst themselves awhile).  Gave them some names of some people that
>can help them with the other part of the project (including Seattles
>Pikes Place Market, who did a similar fund raising project about 14 yrs
>ago)
>
>Well...sorry to turn into a book...the show was not really good, but not
>really bad....time will tell whether the exposure did any good or not!
>;o)
>
>Kind of wish for my husbands' sake I had had better sales... Think he
>was really expecting more, as was I.  I really expected to sell all of
>my ornaments.  My snowman ornaments were a hit.  People really liked
>them.
>
>There was one guy there with hot glass...(beautiful work) said it was an
>awful show for him today.  I dont think anyone sold much...and there was
>very little traffic.  Way too few people showed.
>
>Not too disapointed, but damn the weather.
>Tulsa Suzanne
>
>
>--
>~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 18:53:52 1998
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Byron Wells <byronw@eatumup.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:30:03 -0800 (PST)
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References: <<1998Dec5.143737.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Byron:  Don't forget to pre-wire for a sandblast set up to include the
compressor.  Eventually you will want to include glass etching as part of
your glass studio work.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 19:15:57 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  RE: #75 How do you hide and elephant?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 01:40:40 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

Mmmmm....
Reminds me of the story of a little child who went to the zoo and saw 
an elephant for the very first time.
On coming home,  the child was terribly excited to tell Mumy all 
about it.
"...And, Mummy, Mummy! It picked up peanuts with its tail"
"Did it now, dear. What did it do with the peanuts then?"
"Mummy, Mummy, you just would not BELIEVE me, if I told you!!"
Good night everybody from UK.... and sweet dreams!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Thanks for the reminder, Sparks!: 
> Also sprach our resident Prima Ballerina, pkelly@n-link.com:
> 
> >Hiding the elephant is not hard. Its trying to cover up the smell of peanuts
> >that's hard.
> 
> That's easy. Just set out a couple of bowls of mixed nuts, like you would for
> a party, then people will think nothing of the peanut smell.
> 
> Now, covering up the smell of the *result* of the elephant's eating the
> peanuts, *that's* hard!
> 
 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 19:21:48 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!JKSinrod
From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Walt Disney World
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:22:19 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.22219.0>
Precedence: bulk

   I always thought that that stuff was tile work?? As complicated as it is, I
would bet that Disney had 40 people do it in 2 days!!! 

Sinrod Studios
http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/sinrod.html
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 19:41:03 1998
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From: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
To: Kathy Mather <katmath@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: jewlery
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 20:58:18 -0500
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References: <<199812070457.UAA12502@f282.hotmail.com>>
Organization: The Stained Glass Place
Precedence: bulk

Hi Kathy:
Try "Rings & Things". They have a pretty large catalog. Their website
is: http://www.Rings-Things.com
Carolyn
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 19:45:02 1998
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Burnt orange was: Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:06:38 -0800 (PST)
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References: <<1998Dec7.93718.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Christie:  Don't believe you started the bit about Burnt orange but
finally decided to jump in...I thought the problem was to get orange glass
for something related to University of Tennessee whose colors are orange
and white.  Bullseye makes a terrific orange colored glass.  Not sure why
burnt orange was a requirement if this was UT.  Having said all that
perhaps I am totally out in left field. Peggy  (I'm a graduate of
University of Tennessee).

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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 20:19:09 1998
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X-Path: sssnet.com!classi
From: "Karen L. Frangos" <classi@sssnet.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Hello from a beginner!
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:15:26 -0500
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I was added to the e-mail list last week, just about when the Mexican worm
escaped from the Tequila bottle into the stained glass mail box. I thought
that I was in the company of rather strange people. Of course, I still think
that, but after reading some of the interesting questions and the rapidly
returning educational answers, I think that these are my kind of people! I
am learning so much and so fast from you that my head is swimming with
projects I want to tackle. The most important thing here is the
human-to-human relationship and support that is so apparent to anyone who
reads the mail (which is abundant). It is quite obvious that there are
master artists in this group who unselfishly give time and tips to hobbiests
of varying degrees of talent and training.

My name is Karen and I am so new at this artistic endeavor that I have yet
to begin my first project after finishing a simple window pane during my
4-week course at my local dealer. Many things you write about are totally
unknown to me. I have ordered catalogues through which I hope to learn the
names of products and terms. I am creating a work area in the basement and
hope to have fun this winter exploring my new hobby. With your help I can
get even more out of what I originally thought to be a simple hobby and now
find out that it is very complex.

Now I no longer feel like a voyeur or even someone reading another's mail. I
will now become a part of the group if you will let this beginner ask stupid
questions. On the other hand, my stained glass instructor told me the only
stupid question was the one you didn't ask.

Warm regards to all,

Karen

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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 20:35:00 1998
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Sorry Ed!
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 22:29:22 -0500
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Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> 'Twas the night before Christmas and all through  the house
> Not a creature was stirring - not even a mouse'

Aaahhh, yes. But a more difficult question is does anyone have the "MAD"
version of the poem which starts:

'Twas the night before Christmas and all through the pad,
Not a creature was stirring, not even old Dad.
The stockings were hung in the stocking routine,
In hopes that the fat man would soon make the scene....

It is obvious how I spent my childhood...

<g>
Hilary
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 20:38:20 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
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Subject: Re: Hot dogs for supper!
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 22:40:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec7.17402.0>
References: <<1998Dec7.121551.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Here's the most horrific craft fair story I've heard (that just involved sales,
that is) and, no, it didn't happen to me.  This summer there was a celebration
of some sort that included a craft fair.  The fee was $500 for 4 days
(Thurs-Sun).  The crafter who told me this story made $36 in sales...by
Saturday, when he packed up and went home!  He said it was so bad the food
vendors gave up on Saturday.  There were people, but they weren't even buying
food!

I can't even say, at the end of a show, if it's been good or bad, until I see if
any special orders come through.  Sometimes none come through, other times I
double the amount of money I made at the show.  (Now, last show, there was a guy
who liked some window corners we had, but weren't sure they'd go with his
wallpaper, so was going to go home and get his wallpaper, and maybe we'd do up
the pattern to match the wallpaper.  He wanted it for Christmas, so we told him
we'd have to know IMMEDIATELY.  When he came back, no wallpaper.  He decided
that what we had was just fine and bought it.  Whew!)

Dorothy K



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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 21:19:35 1998
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From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:57:51 -0600
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Thanks for all the ideas folks! There were several I hadnt thought of or
about that yall brought up  and I'll be adding them to my new shop... I'll
be starting in Feb probably since the winters arent to bad in Texas...

Byron..

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Subject: WDW & previous thread
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 22:52:29 -0500
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M. Savad wrote:

> ........
>
> unless they were vector art, then it should'nt pixelate.
>
> ---Mike Savad
>

If you were pixelated, couldn't it be on tequila?

Hmmm, anything else I can say that's on topic?
Went to the beach today and didn't find any beach glass (75 degrees in New England on
Dec. 7!)
Went to the mall and saw several gnomens at Restoration Hardware.

Dorothy K


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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 21:39:52 1998
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From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: math...
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 20:00:04 -0800
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At 05:18 PM 12/7/98 -0500, Daniel M. German wrote:
>
>Steve W. twisted the bytes to say:
>
>| From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
>| Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 10:02:12 -0800
>| Subject: Re: Math quiz?
>| 
>| At 08:58 AM 12/5/98 -0800, Chris Gundersen wrote:
>| >Had a small problem that I'm sure someone with math skills could assist me
>| with.
>| >I want to build a lampshade with x number of sides and know the
diameter at
>| >the top and bottom. How can I calculate the angle that I must cut all the
>| >sides so that everything will line up properly. I hate to make cutouts of
>| >cardboard when I know this is the computer age.
>| >Thanks Chris
>| >
>| 
>| Trick question...to figure out the angle, you need to know the panel's
>| height, too.  What you can determine easily is the approximate length of
>| the top and bottom edges of each panel.  Here goes...
>| 
>| Figure out the circumference (length around a circle) of the top and bottom
>| openings by multiplying their diameters by everyone's favorite Greek letter
>| pi, which is 3.14 plus change.  Then divide the top circumference by the
>| number of panels to get the length of the top edge.  Do a similar division
>| to get the length of the bottom edge.  You can then draw a trapezoidal
>| template of whatever height you like.  Just make sure you center the top
>| edge horizontally over the bottom edge.
>| 
>| If you *really* need to figure out angles, the angle between the bottom
>| edge and a side is
>| 
>|    angle = arctangent (2 * h / (b - t))
>
>| where h is the panel height, b is the length of the bottom edge and t is
>| the length of the top edge.  The angle between the top edge and a side is
>| 180 degrees minus the angle you just calculated.
>| 
>| [clip]
>| 
>| Steve
>
>
>Mmm, I am a little confused. Lets say this is the lamp shade:
>
>               |<- t -->|
>
>                --------         -
>               /        \        ^
>            D /          \       |
>             /            \      h
>            / A            \     |
>           -----------------     -
>           |<-     b      -->|
>
>lets call it, as Steve did, b and t for the base and top diameter. And h
>is the height. Then,  h can be described as:
>
> [clip]
>

We're using different notation.  My b and t are not shade diameters...they
are the lengths of bottom and top edges of a single panel.  (Formulas b =
pi * bottom_diameter / panel_count and t = pi * top_diameter / panel_count
were described in words, not equations, in my post.)  Also, my h is the
height of a single panel--the slant height of the shade, if you will--which
is missing information in Chris's original question.

If you still disagree, let's take this discussion private and report the
final outcome to the group, lest we offend!

Steve
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Sorry Ed!
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:49:54 EST
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In a message dated 12/7/98 9:35:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:

> Twas the night before Christmas
>  and all through the house
>  not a creature was stirring
>  not even a mouse...
>  
>  Um....
>  
>  ;-)
>  
>  Dani Greer (who's suffering with a bit of brainlock....)

the stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in hopes that St. Nicholas
would soon be there......

Ok, someone else's turn.....Suzanne de Tulsa, I think you know it too.....
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 22:21:18 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
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Subject: Re: WDW & previous thread
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 23:59:28 -0600
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> Went to the mall and saw several gnomens at Restoration Hardware.


I aint seen gno-mens in a lawng tahm.


Couldnt resist....everytime I see that word, just makes me visualise
male anatomy! %-)

Tulsa Suzanne, whose dad just loves Jeff Foxworthy
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Sorry Ed!
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 00:23:47 -0600
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> the stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in hopes that St. Nicholas
> would soon be there......
> 
> Ok, someone else's turn.....Suzanne de Tulsa, I think you know it too.....


The Childen were nestled all snug in their beds, while visions of sugar
plums danced in their heads.....
And Ma in her kerchief and I in my cap had just settled down for a long
winters' nap....
When out from the lawn......



I recently checked a version out from the library.,..that said something
about thier brains instead of winters nap.  I had never heard that
before.


-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Mon Dec  7 23:47:14 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: This place is a wreck!
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 01:06:20 -0600
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so...is it obvious the show's over and I havent started anything yet?
;o)  Gotta clean shop and re organise.  Looks like tornado season blew
through my little studio (not to mention the house) and hit the cement
and sand first!

Each of my tables appears to be in the midst of a major project....sand
and cement and concrete on one...floor of course is covered, glass is
splashed etc...

One darling little ornament sitting looking like I am taking a short
soldering break, only the iron is ice cold...

My grinder is crying out to be cleaned.  The ring saw is crying for a
blade (Gary bought me one, then he used it and broke the blade)....my
drawing table is completely covered...etc...

My last pour was a nightmare.  My concrete guy (and his helper) picked
Thanksgiving weekend to get married!  DIDNT HE KNOW I HAD A SHOW COMING
UP?????  I didnt have all the sand I needed.  My husband goes to Home
Depot or some such place and buys me sand.  ARGHHH....not even near what
I am used to.  I had to pour that day...or not have these 4 stones that
I had planned along for the show.

In the middle of the pour I start to freak out because the texture, look
and *feel of it is sooo totally different.  I start wondering...did I
mix 3 to 1? 4 to 1?  The color is wrong...isnt white enough..must have
mixed it 4 to 1...Oh noo add more cement...

Then I realise... that when figuring my amounts I forgot about adding in
enough for a 16" hex....meanwhile, I have already poured all the
concrete I have mixed into 2 14"ers a paver and the hex.   So...make
more!  This time I add more cement...and pour into these molds for the
3rd time!

When all was said and done...the top of the pours looked like frothy
cream....Obvious the mix is too rich.  Sheesh...here I am at close to
midnight thinking ok...do I scoop all this out of my molds rescue my
glass and wash it off...and start over?????  Too tired.  Said nope, risk
it.  They came out beautiful.

Called my concrete guy today, explained what happened...and asked him...
several different mixes in one pour...gradually richer with each mix
(more cement) will they crack between mixes?  He said if it was wet
enough it will not!!!  WHEW!!  I *pour* my cement.  YEA!!!!!!

I am going to hang onto these stones for awhile to make sure they are
*ok*.  Still a little worried.  If nothing else, I can baby them, and
keep them as samples, as they look beautiful.

Sure didnt accomplish much today.  Did admire some of my work of the
last couple of weeks today...and that was all the glass I touched.  Did
replace some bandaides and triple antibiotic ointment several times
though.  Hands are healing well! ;o)

Ok.  I'll be quiet now.

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 00:14:57 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: St. Nick
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 02:03:35 -0500
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>
>> Twas the night before Christmas
>>  and all through the house
>>  not a creature was stirring
>>  not even a mouse...
>>
>>  Um....
>>
>>  ;-)
>>
>>  Dani Greer (who's suffering with a bit of brainlock....)
>
>the stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in hopes that St.
Nicholas
>would soon be there......
>
>
*******The children were nestled all snug in their beds,
******* While visions of sugar-plums danced in their heads.

    OK, who's next?
Karen

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 00:29:14 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
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Subject: North Pole
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 02:06:44 -0500
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Tis the Season.....
http://www.northpole.com/wc.html
Karen

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 00:34:56 1998
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Subject: Re: Sorry Ed!
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 01:22:51 -0500
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CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 12/7/98 9:35:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:
> 
> > Twas the night before Christmas
> >  and all through the house
> >  not a creature was stirring
> >  not even a mouse...
> >
> >  Um....
> >
> >  ;-)
> >
> >  Dani Greer (who's suffering with a bit of brainlock....)
> 
> the stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in hopes that St. Nicholas
> would soon be there......

The children were all snuggled in their beds. While visions of
sugarplums danced in their heads, and Mamma in her kerchief and I in my
cap .
Had just settled down for a long winter's nap..
NEXT
Since our grandson first Christmas, I have read the story to him every
Christmas  Eve. Now at 7 1/2 he is going to read it to to us Christmas
Eve.
> 
> Ok, someone else's turn.....Suzanne de Tulsa, I think you know it too.....
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 01:16:22 1998
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From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Enough! Enough!
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:13:20 -0000
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Thanks again to all you lovely people! I have have twenty six complete
poems, one serialised version still running, and six websites! Poor Ed will
be going mad!

PLEASE STOP! It's like a chain letter!

(I haven't had next weeks Lottery numbers yet though!)

Thanks a big bunch!

Very best regards

Brian

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 04:25:29 1998
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Subject: RE: Bio# 74 Luanne
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 06:47:59 -0500
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Welcome to Luanne.

Luanne and I have been corresponding off group for a while and I have 
learned that she is a good hearted, fair mained person who LOVES glass. She 
has designed some lovely patterns and I'm sure we'll hear from her often. 
Glad you are here, Luanne. Stay out of lurkdom.

Linda
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 05:27:28 1998
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From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: Hilary A Bobker <hilary@voicenet.com>, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Sorry Ed!
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 07:46:04 -0800
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Now you can't leave us hanging without finishing that one.  I must be too
old, never heard it before.

Carol T

Hilary A Bobker wrote:

> > 'Twas the night before Christmas and all through  the house
> > Not a creature was stirring - not even a mouse'
>
> Aaahhh, yes. But a more difficult question is does anyone have the "MAD"
> version of the poem which starts:
>
> 'Twas the night before Christmas and all through the pad,
> Not a creature was stirring, not even old Dad.
> The stockings were hung in the stocking routine,
> In hopes that the fat man would soon make the scene....
>
> It is obvious how I spent my childhood...
>
> <g>
> Hilary
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 07:43:35 1998
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Subject: Re: Hello from a beginner!
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:30:53 EST
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Hello Karen!
Welcome aboard!!!  We are happy to have you!  Nice of you to introduce
yourself.
So glad to hear that you stayed with us long enough to realize that we
actually DO talk glass.  If it weren't for troublemakers in tutus with lost
gnomen (whose name I will not mention) and a certain known hound from hell (no
name again) this line would be quite civilized and proper. (not to mention the
worm/or not the worm in the bottom of the bottle!) <BG>
Watch out for the "nag" (sporting a tutu) who will be contacting you shortly
for a personal biography! (shouldn't that be rightly called an autobiography?)
He caught onto poor Ed right away.  Didn't comment on Ed's complaint, but
instead asked for bio. <G>
BTW, Ed, how are you holding up to your name being mentioned so much?  Has
your opinion changed even slightly regarding the group?  Hope you are not
taking offense as no one is attempting to offend you. 
Lenore
who is out of lurking mode now that shows are over!!!!
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 08:05:35 1998
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:40:22 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.144022.0>
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Hi Byron et al,
On Saturday I had occasion to use Suzy Albrights "sink" to clean off a piece
of glass during her home show.  Suzy has a shower stall floor mounted high
enough so no bending over is required.  It felt terrific!!!  It was large!  It
was shallow!  It was high up!  It was everything you would ever want for
cleaning your glass!!!  This I definitely recommend!  Was happy with my double
stationary tubs in the basement until I used her "sink".      Santa....are you
listening???!     [not a chance.....:( ....]
Lenore
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 08:10:20 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Vic'" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: "Barking" the edges of glass panels
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:49:48 -0500
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Wow, this is interesting. In some of my wanderings I found this page on 
Knapping:

http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~t64tr/knap.html

There is an interesting article there about making an arrowhead from the 
bottom of a beer bottle. I just knew it would come in handy someday - 
interesting if nothing else.

Linda Campbell
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 08:43:21 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Burnt orange was: Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:24:36 -0500
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Message text written by "Peggy W. Johnsen"
>Christie:  Don't believe you started the bit about Burnt orange but
finally decided to jump in...I thought the problem was to get orange glas=
s
for something related to University of Tennessee whose colors are orange
and white.  Bullseye makes a terrific orange colored glass.  Not sure why=

burnt orange was a requirement if this was UT.  Having said all that
perhaps I am totally out in left field. Peggy  (I'm a graduate of
University of Tennessee).<

Ha, ha,  I interpreted UT as University of Texas, whose colors
are burnt orange and white.  And it wasn't me who was asking,
but now I can't remember who.  Ah, memory is one of those
things I'm missing most right now.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 09:16:18 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Burnt orange was: Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:52:45 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.155245.0>
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In a message dated 12/7/98 6:44:38 PM, Ensembles@compuserve.com wrote:

>I think I have a quarter sheet of one of these.
>Actually, it looks like orange flashed onto
>clear. [...]

I remember seeing it in the shop and wondering who the heck made something
like that - thinking it must have come from the heyday of flashed glass when
everybody and their dog was doing cut/etched glass. But *orange*? (It's a
particularly "screaming" shade too, and opaque if I remember right. *Very*
strange!)

I guess my inclination might be to try etching it and see how it comes out...
maybe etch it in an autumn pattern and slump it onto a bowl?


Sparks
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 09:38:52 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:52:53 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.155253.0>
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I picked up several wooden shipping crates from the local stained-glass supply
shop, put medium-duty swiveling wheel casters (the kind you use for large
furniture) on them, and made them into roll-out bins for storing glass. Any
glass bigger than a foot in any direction goes in the bins. One (rack-pack
size) tucks in safely under my work table, the other (1 foot wide, 3 feet
long, 2 feet high) fits nicely into a slot next to my second workbench.

Roll-out bins are also great for wheeling around your bags of stepping-stone
cement as well as non-glass stuff like hydraulic jack/jack stands/other car
repair equipment.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 09:42:14 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Bragging Rights on my Pattern
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:30:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.63041.0>
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Well, folks, I just must brag.

Saturday, my local shop owner put one of my patterns in her shop for sale. 
I may have told ya'll I was making a small Hatteras Lighthouse (9")  light 
for my brother for Christmas gift. As I designed the thing, I drew it in 
detail with Autocad. Finished the pattern before I finished the actual 
lighthouse and had to go back and alter the order of construction to suit 
real life. The pattern and instructions turned out to be 15 pages (11" x 
17") and the autocad makes it just ever so neat. She's selling them for 
$12.95 and I get 75%. Anyway, a friend was at the shop today and called to 
say the shop had sold 2 of my patterns. It helps that my glass prototype 
was on display in the shop. Brother will get the second one I make for 
Christmas.

I'm just so excited that my pattern has sold. I told the shop owner I'd not 
put the pattern anywhere else for a while. She is on the way to the outer 
banks (Hatteras) and at an ideal location for the sale of this pattern. But 
who knows, maybe I'll hit the big time and be famous for my series of 
lighthouse patterns. :)

Linda Campbell
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 10:48:38 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: byronw@eatumup.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:46:29 EST
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I am not sure I read all the idea eveyone gave you, all of a sudden had over
300 e-mails in my box and delted a couple without reading.........So if this
has been suggested, sorry.

Personally along with everything else, I would have as many electrical outlets
and switches as code allowed.  Actually if I could start from the ground up
with a large new space I would also make sure there was 220 available, do any
big sandblasing set ups use 220?  My air compressor in the garage does, and
seems they would work on a similar principle.  (of course I am the only person
I know who has a 220 line in the living room too, not enough outlets for the
normal items, but....)  Since I am on the topic of electricity, which seems to
be one of my favorite topics, how about different kinds of lighting fixtures,
fluorescent, incandescent, halogen, and whatever they call the kind that
simulate sunlight.  Glass looks so different in different lights, wonder if
having a shop with the different ones available would be useful.     Ok, back
to whatever it is that I am supposed to be doing right now.

Good luck,

Pat
  
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 12:03:44 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: North Pole
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:39:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.93942.0>
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Have I ever told you that Michael
got his start in stained glass as
an elf in Santa's Workshop at the
North Pole in Cascade, CO?  Yup,
that's where he learned the basics
of cutting and assembling glass.
Right out of high school..............
It's amazing what can happen if
you do something long enough!
;-)

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 12:33:41 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Sorry Ed! (No not really!)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:39:51 -0500
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I love it, Hilary, but where's the rest
of the poem??!!!!  And you don't =

happen to also have the story of
Rindacella and Her Sisty Uglers,
do you??

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 12:54:18 1998
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From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: lcbell@memach.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Bragging Rights on my Pattern
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:34:01 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.19341.0>
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Congrats on you work! Do you mean its 15 pages taped together for a large
design? I don't get it?
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 13:14:35 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:48:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.94854.0>
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Hi Pat,

I'm with you on the electrical outlets!  Our
shop used to be an appliance store and
*still I don't have enough outlets!!  And, yes,
220 for the big kiln and sandblast set-up...
at least three plugs so you don't have to =

have a sign-up sheet for 220 plug-in... before
you know it, you'll have three pieces of =

equipment that need 220. Or in my case
four, since I have my washer and dryer at
the studio, too.  Well, and how else am I
to get the laundry done when I'm here 18
hours a day??? Jeez......;-)

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 13:38:55 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Shop ideas
Date: Tue,  8 Dec 1998 14:34:16, -0500
Message-ID: <199812081934.OAA13976@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

When I set up my sandblaster I had the compressor on one side and the 
vacuum on the other side. That made for short runs of connections and 
almost drove me nuts listening to both of these machines at once.

Now my compressor and vacuum are remote from the sandblast cabinet 
and peace and guiet reigns. The compressor turns itself on and the 
vacuum goes on when the light in the cabinet is turned on. The 
compressor and vacuum are remote from each other as I do not like the 
idea of the compressor picking up the output of the vacuum. 

I suggest you consider doing the same. It is much nicer and perhaps 
healthier just hearing the gentle hiss of the blaster doing its work.


Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 13:39:45 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'JKSinrod@aol.com'" <JKSinrod@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Bragging Rights on my Pattern
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 15:15:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.101550.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks,

It is 15 pages total, made up of full size drawings and instructions. Since 
the lighthouse is only 9 inches tall, each of the pieces will fit on a 
sheet without taping together or anything. But I wanted plenty of room and 
I described each step in detail with full size drawings. That's why it took 
15 sheets, basically 14 steps to a lighthouse.

Actually, the shop owner die ask me if I would design and build one about 
2-3 feet tall. She said she could sell several and she's really into 
flowers and panel, not 3-d. I told her I would think about it but that I 
couldn't just enlarge this pattern because so much more detail woild be 
required for a larger object. This pattern has 128 pieces and I consider it 
really simple to do (cause my instructions are basic and simple). I can't 
imagine how many pieces would be in a house 2-3 feet tall, what with all 
the detail to fill the blank spaces.

Thanks for the congtats,

Linda
-----Original Message-----
From:	JKSinrod@aol.com [SMTP:JKSinrod@aol.com]
Sent:	Tuesday, December 08, 1998 2:34 PM
To:	lcbell@memach.com; glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Re: Bragging Rights on my Pattern

Congrats on you work! Do you mean its 15 pages taped together for a large
design? I don't get it?
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 14:08:14 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: North Pole: Another Santa's Elf
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 15:34:12 EST
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In a message dated 12/8/98 3:06:04 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote:

>Have I ever told you that Michael
>got his start in stained glass as
>an elf in Santa's Workshop at the
>North Pole in Cascade, CO?  Yup,
>that's where he learned the basics
>of cutting and assembling glass.

I guess I got my start in glass as a "Santa's elf" too...... A couple of
Decembers ago when I was out of work and Christie's business was picking up
(she was still working at home at the time, no North Pole), she called me up
and asked me how would I like to learn to do stained glass, she could use some
help. So I worked a day here and a day there for her, and once she got the
shop, the business took off so fast that I've been there anywhere from 2 days
a week to 14 days straight......


Sparks

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 14:41:27 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Shop Ideas?
Date: Tue Dec  8 13:03:09 1998
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.10399.0>
Precedence: bulk

I'm jealous. 
Here are all these wonderful ideas for a great workshop and what do I
make do with?
My work area is a 30" x 42 " desktop, storage is a set of steel shelves
and two drawers. The top of 
the washing machine doubles as a table when I'm grinding. Larger sheets
of glass are stashed 
where ever my son (3 and half) can't get to them. 

I wonder if Santa can fit an extra room in his bag?

(It is not actually all that bad. While a real workshop would be nice, I
have managed to do a lot with the limited space available. But I am
still jealous.)   

Green eyed Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	CncptThnkr@aol.com [mailto:CncptThnkr@aol.com]
		Sent:	Tuesday, December 08, 1998 12:46 PM
		To:	byronw@eatumup.com; glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: Shop Ideas?

		I am not sure I read all the idea eveyone gave you, all
of a sudden had over
		300 e-mails in my box and delted a couple without
reading.........So if this
		has been suggested, sorry.

		Personally along with everything else, I would have as
many electrical outlets
		and switches as code allowed.  Actually if I could start
from the ground up
		with a large new space I would also make sure there was
220 available, do any
		big sandblasing set ups use 220?  My air compressor in
the garage does, and
		seems they would work on a similar principle.  (of
course I am the only person
		I know who has a 220 line in the living room too, not
enough outlets for the
		normal items, but....)  Since I am on the topic of
electricity, which seems to
		be one of my favorite topics, how about different kinds
of lighting fixtures,
		fluorescent, incandescent, halogen, and whatever they
call the kind that
		simulate sunlight.  Glass looks so different in
different lights, wonder if
		having a shop with the different ones available would be
useful.     Ok, back
		to whatever it is that I am supposed to be doing right
now.

		Good luck,

		Pat
		  
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Karen L. Frangos" <classi@sssnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Hello from a beginner!
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:39:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.93954.0>
Precedence: bulk

Welcome aboard, Karen.  We're
looking forward to having someone
aboard who'll help us keep interesting
conversations going!  Questions are
always a good starting point.

Happy holidays!

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 15:12:10 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: all <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Hey, UKer's!
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 15:19:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.101921.0>
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Does anyone know the latest
on Hartley Wood glass?  We
heard rumors here that the
employess might be firing up
the company and starting pro-
duction of glass again?  Any
word?

Thanks!

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 15:24:21 1998
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From: Klmxklm@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Burnt orange was: Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:15:03 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.22153.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi:
If all of you Aggies, T Sippers and Vols would switch to being Florida State
fans, you wouldn't have to worry about orange or burnt orange!!  Just a
suggestion!!
"Mike" Mikolajczak
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 15:47:59 1998
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From: Chris & Al Orowitz <glasshack@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Soldering Question
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 16:31:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.113132.0>
Organization: The Glass Shack
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Hi all,

When I get ready to solder a project I arrange all my pieces together.
A friend of mine who owns a glass store told me I shouldn't do it like
that.  She always puts a pin between each of her pieces thus creating a
bit of a space. She claims that  it is to prevent breakage.  Is there
any truth to this or just a myth?  I don't really like the way it looks
after she gets done as the lines are quite large.   I have been putting
my pieces together since I started doing glass, which is about 7 yrs,
and have not had any pieces break because of the way I do it.

Comments anyone?
Chris Orowitz
glasshack@earthlink.net

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 16:11:30 1998
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: bshep@dircon.co.uk
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Enough! Enough!
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:24:40 EST
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In a message dated 12/8/98 1:16:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
bshep@dircon.co.uk writes:

<< PLEASE STOP! It's like a chain letter! >>

Be careful what you ask for....
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 17:26:58 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Soldering Question
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:06:59 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199812090006.TAA10466@smtp3.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk

...............snipped..   I have been putting
>my pieces together since I started doing glass, which is about 7 yrs,and
have not had any pieces break because of the way I do it.

ten years, no pins, no breakage, and thin lines where desired!
Dee...Patuxent Studios

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 17:47:24 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Chris & Al Orowitz <glasshack@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Soldering Question
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:08:20 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.14820.0>
Precedence: bulk

Well, certainly doing it the way =

your friend does would create
a stronger window since the
pin-space in between would
ensure that solder gets down
in between the glass creating a
matrix much like lead channel
with a true heart.  Does that make
sense?  On the other hand, if
you were building a sized window
with many hundreds of pieces of
glass, that little bit of pin spacing
between each piece would guarantee
a "growing" window as you built.
Not good.  The bottom line:  No,
we don't do this and have had no
problems with breakage.  I wouldn't
waste the time.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 17:55:02 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Chris & Al Orowitz" <glasshack@earthlink.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Soldering Question
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:13:31 -0000
Message-ID: <199812090017.TAA07782@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

>Hi all,
>
>When I get ready to solder a project I arrange all my pieces together.
>A friend of mine who owns a glass store told me I shouldn't do it like
>that.  She always puts a pin between each of her pieces thus creating a
>bit of a space. She claims that  it is to prevent breakage.  Is there
>any truth to this or just a myth?  I don't really like the way it looks
>after she gets done as the lines are quite large.   I have been putting
>my pieces together since I started doing glass, which is about 7 yrs,
>and have not had any pieces break because of the way I do it.

I think you just answered your own question! I've never heard of putting 
a pin between pieces, except when you're pinning lamp pieces to the mold.

Suzannah

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 18:27:45 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: M-80 breaker
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 19:18:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.141835.0>
Precedence: bulk

has anyone used the morton M-80 breaker? i finally broke down, and i may
get one. i have the ringstar pliers, currently. is it difficult to use?
easy? i'm sure there's a learning curve to it, just like the ringstar...
is there any glass it can't do?  ...except for drapery, or heavy
ripples, which i doubt would work anyway.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 18:39:05 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Chris & Al Orowitz <glasshack@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Soldering Question
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 19:16:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.141612.0>
References: <<1998Dec8.113132.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Chris & Al Orowitz wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> When I get ready to solder a project I arrange all my pieces together.
> A friend of mine who owns a glass store told me I shouldn't do it like
> that.  She always puts a pin between each of her pieces thus creating a
> bit of a space. She claims that  it is to prevent breakage.  Is there
> any truth to this or just a myth?  I don't really like the way it looks
> after she gets done as the lines are quite large.   I have been putting
> my pieces together since I started doing glass, which is about 7 yrs,
> and have not had any pieces break because of the way I do it.
> 
> Comments anyone?
> Chris Orowitz
> glasshack@earthlink.net
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


no, she's an idiot... not to sound mean or anything... the solder can be
6 feet wide and it won't make any differnece how strong the pieces is.
the only way a solder joint is going to strenghten the project more is
if you use a wider foil. 

the pins will make you use more solder (is she selling you the solder by
any chance?) and it will make it look bit more ugly. it will also take
longer to set it up.

the strength of the project depends on the project itself. where the
solder lines are placed, not how fat they are. when you assemble a
project you want the pieces to be as close together as you can for the
best possible fit.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 18:49:29 1998
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: 'nite before continued
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:41:01 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.1411.0>
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In a message dated 12/8/98 2:28:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:

<< And Ma in her kerchief and I in my cap had just settled down for a long
 winters' nap....
 When out from the lawn.... >>

There arose such a clatter, I sprang from my bed, but what did it matter:
My icicle lites were stolen with my ladder........

oops, philly style abridged version
Maureen
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 19:09:40 1998
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: This place is a wreck!
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 20:32:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.15324.0>
References: <<199812081428.JAA05537@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Precedence: bulk



suzy@comcat.com wrote:

>
>
> What do you think, Emeraldine?
>
> Penna. Suzanne

Oh, dear, I do so hate to admit to my bad habits, but I do have some simple
items in various states of creation.  And I've had to put off tuning the
bass notes in the 4-D creation while I finish the holiday items.  The life
size Frosty is still missing his hat.  Then there is the angel with trumpet
- Jacques was late in getting the blown glass feathers to me, so it's over
to my left...

There are drawings and patterns all over, most unorganized.  Pierre just
looks through the door and shakes his head.  It's not safe to do anything
else.  He promises that when I finish some of this work, he will help me
clean, and maybe bring in a load of sawdust...just that it's REALLY not safe
to think of that right now.

And, of course, I need to make stained glass cookies before the annual
neighborhood caroling.

As you can see, I must go.  The sooner I finish, well - I leave it to your
capable imagination.

Emeraldine

(Newcomers note:  Emeraldine lives only in Dorothy's mind.  Patrick, I
understand, is quite real.)



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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 19:32:57 1998
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X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: all <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Non-glass MAD mag question
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 22:08:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.17829.0>
References: <<199812081440_MC2-62E9-6575@compuserve.com>>
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

Hey, Guys!

It is gratifying to know that many of you rotted your brains with MAD as
young persons, BUT, my question was does anyone know the MAD version of
the Night Before Christmas? Those first few lines are ***all*** I can
remember, and being that it was at least 40 years ago, I consider that
pretty good!!!

So, please don't look to me for the rest.

Hilary <vbig>*

*very big idiotic grin

PS Has anyone ever done a A. E. Newman panel?
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 20:20:15 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, esavad@home.net, glass@intrastar.net
Subject: M-80 breaker
Date: Tue,  8 Dec 1998 22:18:12, -0500
Message-ID: <199812090318.WAA06356@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>has anyone used the morton M-80 breaker? i finally broke down, and 
i may
get one. i have the ringstar pliers, currently. is it difficult to 
use?
easy? i'm sure there's a learning curve to it, just like the ringstar.
..
is there any glass it can't do?  ...except for drapery, or heavy
ripples, which i doubt would work anyway.

---Mike Savad<<

I would not buy the M-80 until you have checked out METAL running 
pliars. I mean the ones with the adjustable set screw.

I used the M-80 for a period of time and then found that it just sat 
around taking up space so I sold it as used. It works pretty good but 
on heavy glass seems to have a built in problem. The tubler handles 
bend slightly and store a lot of energy. When the glass starts to 
break, this energy is transmitted to the glass and often the score 
does not run true.

With metal running pliars, the set screw can be set so that there is 
no force transmitted after the glass starts to run. I only use the 
set screw for difficult cuts. Use the metal breakers without setting 
the screw for the majority of cuts because the alignment of the metal 
runner jaws helps to part the score evenly. Plastic runners are not 
an acceptable substitute for a good pair of metal runners as they 
also store a lot of energy in the handles.

I have a Ringstar and do not like it nearly as well as my metal 
runners. I keep it around so I can demonstrate how it is inferior to 
metal runners.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:        glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 20:46:41 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: classes in Cincinatti
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:04:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.17445.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
	I may have a friend interested in classes in Cincinatti.  Anyone
on the list that teaches up there?

Jerri

___________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 20:49:57 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: M-80 breaker
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:36:49 -0000
Message-ID: <199812090340.WAA26334@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

You said:
(snip)
> i finally broke down, and

Really? Gosh, I thought you were *young! 
Sorry, Mike, couldn't resist.
Suzannah
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 22:04:21 1998
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:56:59 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.205659.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi, Albert and all else.

The shop ideas thread that going on now seems to quite interesting. How
about an article of that nature in CG:C? In fact one of us could collect
ideas from all the bungi people and sort it out to make more readable.

Such an article would of great interest to me. I am planning on shifting my
workshop to a different  and bigger location.

Shakeel Abedi
shakeel@tm.net.my
Shakeel Abedi
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano <daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 7:08 AM
Subject: RE: Shop Ideas?


>I'm jealous.
>Here are all these wonderful ideas for a great workshop and what do I
>make do with?
>My work area is a 30" x 42 " desktop, storage is a set of steel shelves
>and two drawers. The top of
>the washing machine doubles as a table when I'm grinding. Larger sheets
>of glass are stashed
>where ever my son (3 and half) can't get to them.
>
>I wonder if Santa can fit an extra room in his bag?
>
>(It is not actually all that bad. While a real workshop would be nice, I
>have managed to do a lot with the limited space available. But I am
>still jealous.)
>
>Green eyed Vic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CncptThnkr@aol.com [mailto:CncptThnkr@aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 12:46 PM
> To: byronw@eatumup.com; glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
>
> I am not sure I read all the idea eveyone gave you, all
>of a sudden had over
> 300 e-mails in my box and delted a couple without
>reading.........So if this
> has been suggested, sorry.
>
> Personally along with everything else, I would have as
>many electrical outlets
> and switches as code allowed.  Actually if I could start
>from the ground up
> with a large new space I would also make sure there was
>220 available, do any
> big sandblasing set ups use 220?  My air compressor in
>the garage does, and
> seems they would work on a similar principle.  (of
>course I am the only person
> I know who has a 220 line in the living room too, not
>enough outlets for the
> normal items, but....)  Since I am on the topic of
>electricity, which seems to
> be one of my favorite topics, how about different kinds
>of lighting fixtures,
> fluorescent, incandescent, halogen, and whatever they
>call the kind that
> simulate sunlight.  Glass looks so different in
>different lights, wonder if
> having a shop with the different ones available would be
>useful.     Ok, back
> to whatever it is that I am supposed to be doing right
>now.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Pat
>
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 22:09:55 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: This place is a wreck
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:44:04 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.16444.0>
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It is obvious that you didn't make enough to get your prosaic prescription
refilled. (8-)

Chill kid ..... just chill. The mess will be there tomorrow or the next day.

I cleaned my garage last week and it looks like twister movie and all I did
was a little suncatcher and a few odds and ends.

I did finish a 24"x24" carousel horse and when I picked it up to put it in
the frame .......... crack!

OH Frit I said (yeah, yeah, that's what I said). That's my story and I'm
sticking to it.

How about having a house cleaning party and invite all of your friends?



Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 22:29:11 1998
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: hilary@voicenet.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Non-glass MAD mag question and reply
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 23:35:40 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.43540.0>
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Hi! 

Every few years  the hospital that I work at, sends around a poster with all
of the new incoming residents for the year.  The photos are a thumbnail size
black and white with the person's name beneath.  This gets posted in some
place where it appears to
stay for years....

One year there was one blank thumbnail spot.   Well of course this drove me
nuts, I kept looking out for just the right picture to fit in here with the
other doctors...
Lo and Behold, one day,  before my eyes was a perfectly sized black and white
photo of Alfred E Neuman Mad Magazine Model of the year.   Naturally, I cut it
out and pasted it to the board.  It hung in our unit for years......It was a
great laugh for anyone just looking at it while they waited for the computer
printer to spit out their documents.....because suddenly they'd spy the
ignomious picture.......

"What me worry?"
Maureen
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 22:29:29 1998
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: <Yegnim@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:36:23 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.203623.0>
Precedence: bulk

Let me say my bits worth.

While re-doing my workshop some time back, I came across a few lamps sets
called "Mah-jong" lamp. I have fixed three over the table. They hang from
the ceiling. The mahjong lamp, is some lamp thingy that has a mechanism to
move it up and down. It is a great help. I now have light that I can bring
closer to the table top and push it back when not in use.

Regards

Shakeel Abedi
shakeel@tm.net.my
Shakeel Abedi
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: Yegnim@aol.com <Yegnim@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: Shop Ideas?


>Hi Byron et al,
>On Saturday I had occasion to use Suzy Albrights "sink" to clean off a
piece
>of glass during her home show.  Suzy has a shower stall floor mounted high
>enough so no bending over is required.  It felt terrific!!!  It was large!
It
>was shallow!  It was high up!  It was everything you would ever want for
>cleaning your glass!!!  This I definitely recommend!  Was happy with my
double
>stationary tubs in the basement until I used her "sink".      Santa....are
you
>listening???!     [not a chance.....:( ....]
>Lenore
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 22:43:48 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio Nagger
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:52:59 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.165259.0>
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<<Watch out for the "nag" (sporting a tutu) who will be contacting you
shortly
for a personal biography!  He caught onto poor Ed right away.>> Too late I
nailed her
as soon the text settled on my monitor. (8-)

BTW didn't I read somewhere someone was restoring gnomons. If I don't get
bios quickly I'll need a transplant.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 22:45:28 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: "Mike" Mikolajczak
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:58:19 -0600
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Hi Mike (he said enthusiastically),

Gotcha, I don't believe I have a bio on you.



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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 23:17:12 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: RE: Shop Ideas?
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 01:00:11 -0500
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What?!!  So many gizmos, so
little work space??  =


Hey, we hear you've been =

knapping on the job again!

Best regards,

Dani Greer (overworked, tired, and very goofy!)
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 23:30:31 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!MD6868
From: MD6868@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Hello from a beginner!
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:37:18 EST
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Karen,
I'm so glad to hear that you've so quickly discovered that you've happened
upon something quite exquisite. This list will, in time, introduce you to
wonderfully talented and artistic(in the broadest sense, to include
sensitivity) human beings, who happen to share a common love of the glass
arts. As far as learning, there isn't a better place, unless you can take a
few years off, or out of your current life. Some of these people are
incredibly brilliant artisans, who as you've seen, don't hesitate lend a hand
to even the most inexperienced. Once in a while, you'll encounter someone who
obviously suffers from irregularity, as will be evident in some postings. The
banter encountered here is often urbane, and witty, but always engaging. In
addition to all I've learned, this list is an intellectual as well as artistic
lift.

Richard Callahan
Glassics Artglass
Valencia, Ca.
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 23:36:51 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!katmath
From: "Kathy Mather" <katmath@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: jewelry
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 22:36:18 PST
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Hi all, 
   Just wanted to say thanks to all you folks that took the time to give 
me info about the jewelry catalog. Thanks for your time,
                                              Kathy

______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  8 23:50:45 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Pat Kelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: This place is a wreck
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 00:50:35 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.185035.0>
References: <<1998Dec8.16444.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> It is obvious that you didn't make enough to get your prosaic prescription
> refilled. (8-)
> 
DARN the luck!

> The mess will be there tomorrow or the next day.

Maybe in the house, but you just oughta see my little studio! ;o)
All cleaned up and reorganised!  Christmas lights hung around the
ceiling, and large suncatchers hung in my north facing windows.

Sold **all** my ornaments today, have one snowman left, and need to make
5 more to fill orders. Got one order for 10 ornaments at $10 each.

> I did finish a 24"x24" carousel horse and when I picked it up to put it in
> the frame .......... crack!

OH Patrick!!!!  Frit you say!  You must be a nicer person than I.
Hope it wasnt damaged too badly.  Crack is an awful sound.

> How about having a house cleaning party and invite all of your friends?

Your invited!  See you there?

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 00:10:27 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: This place is a wreck!
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:46:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec8.19466.0>
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Dear Emeraldine,

Are you talking about the stained glass
cookies that are made with real cookie
dough and hard candy?  Do you have
a recipe??  Does anyone?  My neighbor
at the cake shop used to make them
every year and they really do look like
stained glass windows!

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 03:22:59 1998
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Hartley Wood (Was Hey, UKer's!)
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 10:42:51 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.104251.0>
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At 15:19 08/12/98 -0500, Dani wrote:
>Does anyone know the latest
>on Hartley Wood glass?  We
>heard rumors here that the
>employess might be firing up
>the company and starting pro-
>duction of glass again?  Any
>word?
>
Good news on Hartley Wood (at least for UK crafters) 
Just spoken to our main suppliers and have been told they expect delivery of
H-W glass at the end of January.
I am trying to get samples from them but this may take a while.  Apparently
production is under way now and they have sorted out their teething problems.
No clues about pricing yet but it aint going to be cheap :-(  So got to
start saving up.
They dont know if H-W are sending stocks across the pond, but when the news
reporters were interviewing the head honcho months ago he said that most of
their inventory was destined for export, so unless they have changed their
plans you may have supplies before we do.
Elizabeth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 05:53:08 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: MD6868@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Hello from a beginner!
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:48:05 EST
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In a message dated 12/9/98 2:34:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, MD6868@aol.com
writes:

> this list is an intellectual as well as artistic
>  lift.
 
Hey Guys, 

Great, now I have to pretend I have a brain as well as talent?  Oh well, I can
fake anything.  

One week, two days and I will have time to spend hours working on my glass, no
more living vicariously.   Think of all the questions I will have to ask you
then!!!

Take care all.

Pat  
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 06:14:31 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  M-80 breaker
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:56:35 EST
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In a message dated 12/8/98 11:22:01 PM, YWAH36A@prodigy.com wrote:

>>>has anyone used the morton M-80 breaker? [...]
>
>---Mike Savad<<
>
>I would not buy the M-80 until you have checked out METAL running 
>pliars. I mean the ones with the adjustable set screw.

I have 2 pair of metal running pliers and always go for the ones with the
longer handles - better leverage for my slightly arthritic hand! Have never
used the set screw though; I unscrewed it all the way until it stuck, because
it kept screwing itself in and getting in the way. A real nuisance. I wish I
could take it out completely, but it won't come out.

I must confess though - when I saw "M-80" in the subject line, the first thing
I thought of was those big firecrackers and I-forget-whose project with the
random pieces of "sea glass".......


Sparks (no pun intended)
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 06:54:22 1998
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X-Path: sssnet.com!classi
From: "Karen L. Frangos" <classi@sssnet.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Thank you so much!
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:51:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.3515.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thank you for the warm welcome everyone. I certainly appreciate you all
taking time for me when I am sure that this is one of your busiest times of
the year. I suspect, however, that you use this group interaction as a
diversion from glass to refresh yourselves as I use your craft as a
diversion from the computer to refresh myself.

 I will give Patrick a bio as soon as I am inspired to write more about me.
I had thought that I should get a written agreement from Patrick that he
will not use these bio's for blackmail when and if times get tough.

I have followed many of the links to your studios and I am totally humbled
in your collective presence.

Here is my first question: Since you are designing the perfect studio, I
would like to know how high to make the perfect work table for me. I am
5'7". Do you sit at your table alot? Is a stool or a chair better?

Oops. That was three questions.

Karen
mailto:classi@sssnet.com


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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 07:14:06 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Burnt orange was: Aggies & T Sippers
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:43:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.34328.0>
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How about SYRACUSE.....[My oltomata...didn't learn much...]

Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: Klmxklm@aol.com <Klmxklm@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: Burnt orange was: Aggies & T Sippers


>Hi:
>If all of you Aggies, T Sippers and Vols would switch to being Florida
State
>fans, you wouldn't have to worry about orange or burnt orange!!  Just a
>suggestion!!
>"Mike" Mikolajczak
>----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 07:18:09 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: M-80 breaker
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:55:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.35531.0>
Precedence: bulk

Have them and use them when breaking large pieces of ripple or heavy glass.
It reaches far in to the piece.  Yes they work.

Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: M. Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 9:43 PM
Subject: M-80 breaker


>has anyone used the morton M-80 breaker? i finally broke down, and i may
>get one. i have the ringstar pliers, currently. is it difficult to use?
>easy? i'm sure there's a learning curve to it, just like the ringstar...
>is there any glass it can't do?  ...except for drapery, or heavy
>ripples, which i doubt would work anyway.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>--
>Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
>of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 07:38:29 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4
From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: classes in Cincinatti
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:32:54 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.143254.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Jerri, I have a friend that owns a shop on the westside of town in
Cincinnati,she has been around for quite awhile and I feel that she is the
best .Her name is Kathy and her shop is the Glass Shack on Cheviot Rd., phone
#385-4364. Another shop in the Tri County area is the Tiffany Art Glass Shop
run by a very nice lady their phone #671-artt or 671-2788. Then their is a
shop in Miamitown between Cinti and Harrison Oh. called Glass Creations and
they are also very good always having what I call specialized classes on how
to make an Angel for example as well as regular classes.Then finally on the
East side of town their is a shop called the Stained glass center of Cinti,
phone #831-3603, this one is new and I don't have any first hand experience
with them so I really can't give them a thumbs up or down.depending on where
she lives I think I covered all of the shops that have classes except one in
Northern Ky. Kaleidoscope Glass Studio run by Cliff Kennedy you may have seen
one of his books he has 2 pattern books published, phone#491-2222 There you
have it that covers them all I believe. I have had dealings with all of these
shops with the exception of the new one that I mentioned and any of them would
be great for your freind. Tell her Good Luck  and have fun . Beveler4(Stan)
----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 07:44:05 1998
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X-Path: earthlink.net!glasshack
From: Chris & Al Orowitz <glasshack@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Thanks & one more question
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 09:17:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.41753.0>
References: <<199812081908_MC2-62E9-7DE1@compuserve.com>>
Organization: The Glass Shack
Precedence: bulk

First I would like to say thanks to everyone who took the time to answer
my question.  I will continue to do it my way.  Dani's answer below is
basically what her reasoning was  but I still don't like the way it
looks when done.

Now for my other question:  I do quite a bit of small foil overlay -
mostly eyes.  I can't just use the solder blob as the eye has to be
almond shaped as opposed to round.  It also is two small to work with a
piece of foil and then silicon it on ( at least for me).  The problem is
that sometimes the glass cracks and sometimes not.  Now I realize the
temp has a lot to do with this so on cold days I do try to warm it up
first, but it doesn't always work. I do keep my iron temp very low.  If
I put a damp towel under it will that help or will I be creating more of
a problem as far as temp variation?

I would also like to say that I have been on this list, on and off, for
about 4 years now and what I have learned from this group has been
astounding.  I really enjoy reading it.
Thanks,
Chris Orowitz
glasshack@earthlink.net

Dani Greer wrote:

> Well, certainly doing it the way
> your friend does would create
> a stronger window since the
> pin-space in between would
> ensure that solder gets down
> in between the glass creating a
> matrix much like lead channel
> with a true heart.  Does that make
> sense?

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 08:06:30 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com, glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: M-80 breaker
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 08:32:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.3329.0>
References: <<199812090318.WAA06356@mime3.prodigy.com>>
Precedence: bulk

BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote:
> 
> >>has anyone used the morton M-80 breaker? i finally broke down, and
> i may
> get one. i have the ringstar pliers, currently. is it difficult to
> use?
> easy? i'm sure there's a learning curve to it, just like the ringstar.
> ..
> is there any glass it can't do?  ...except for drapery, or heavy
> ripples, which i doubt would work anyway.
> 
> ---Mike Savad<<
> 
> I would not buy the M-80 until you have checked out METAL running
> pliars. I mean the ones with the adjustable set screw.
> 
> I used the M-80 for a period of time and then found that it just sat
> around taking up space so I sold it as used. It works pretty good but
> on heavy glass seems to have a built in problem. The tubler handles
> bend slightly and store a lot of energy. When the glass starts to
> break, this energy is transmitted to the glass and often the score
> does not run true.
> 
> With metal running pliars, the set screw can be set so that there is
> no force transmitted after the glass starts to run. I only use the
> set screw for difficult cuts. Use the metal breakers without setting
> the screw for the majority of cuts because the alignment of the metal
> runner jaws helps to part the score evenly. Plastic runners are not
> an acceptable substitute for a good pair of metal runners as they
> also store a lot of energy in the handles.
> 
> I have a Ringstar and do not like it nearly as well as my metal
> runners. I keep it around so I can demonstrate how it is inferior to
> metal runners.
> 
> Bob
> 
> ____
> Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:        glass@intrastar.net


but metal running pliers were only meant for straight lines, not curved.
i was always under the impression that it was meant for careful breaking
of deep curves.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 08:09:51 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Bio Nagger
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:02:18 -0000
Message-ID: <199812091406.JAA08624@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

><<Watch out for the "nag" (sporting a tutu) who will be contacting you
>shortly
>for a personal biography!  He caught onto poor Ed right away.>> Too late I
>nailed her
>as soon the text settled on my monitor. (8-)
>
>BTW didn't I read somewhere someone was restoring gnomons. If I don't get
>bios quickly I'll need a transplant.
>
Patrick: Good News!
There's a new book out called SunTiles that includes a pre-made aluminum 
gnomon. This should solve your problem for a mere $15.95!
Suzannah
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 08:31:02 1998
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Hartley Wood (Was Hey, UKer's!)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:55:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.45540.0>
Precedence: bulk

Well Hartley Wood is underproduction but...........won't be the same
wonderful glass it used to be.  All the old timers are gone and the new ones
don't have the secrets!

my best,
pj
-----Original Message-----
From: studio@stainedglass.co.uk <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:43 AM
Subject: Hartley Wood (Was Hey, UKer's!)


>At 15:19 08/12/98 -0500, Dani wrote:
>>Does anyone know the latest
>>on Hartley Wood glass?  We
>>heard rumors here that the
>>employess might be firing up
>>the company and starting pro-
>>duction of glass again?  Any
>>word?
>>
>Good news on Hartley Wood (at least for UK crafters)
>Just spoken to our main suppliers and have been told they expect delivery
of
>H-W glass at the end of January.
>I am trying to get samples from them but this may take a while.  Apparently
>production is under way now and they have sorted out their teething
problems.
>No clues about pricing yet but it aint going to be cheap :-(  So got to
>start saving up.
>They dont know if H-W are sending stocks across the pond, but when the news
>reporters were interviewing the head honcho months ago he said that most of
>their inventory was destined for export, so unless they have changed their
>plans you may have supplies before we do.
>Elizabeth
>Bournemouth Stained Glass
>http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 08:47:22 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: non glass Christmas
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 09:15:54 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.31554.0>
Precedence: bulk

*GUESS THE CHRISTMAS SONG:
*
*1. Bleached Yule
*2. Castaneous-colored Seed Vesicated in a Conflagration
*3. Singular Yearning for the Twin Anterior Incisors
*4. Righteous Darkness
*5. Arrival Time: 2400 hrs - Weather: Cloudless
*6. Loyal Followers Advance
*7. Far Off in a Feeder 
*8. Array the Corridor
*9. Bantam Male Percussionist
*10. Monarchial Triad
*11. Nocturnal Noiselessness
*12. Jehovah Deactivate Blithe Chevaliers
*13. Red Man En Route to Borough
*14. Frozen Precipitation Commence
*15. Proceed and Enlighten on the Pinnacle
*16. The Quadruped with the Vermillion Probiscis
*17. Query Regarding Identity of Descendant
*18. Delight for this Planet
*19. Give Attention to the Melodious Celestial Beings
*20. The Dozen Festive 24 Hour Intervals


-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 09:04:32 1998
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charles_Spitzer
From: "Charles Spitzer" <Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: M-80 breaker
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:06:14 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.1614.0>
Precedence: bulk

i have both metal runners and ringstars, and yes, if you're using the
ringstar in place of runners, that's why they are inferior. i don't think
they're designed for the same purpose.

the ringstar's work best, imho, when you have a deep inside curve, and you
start in the middle of the curve rather than at the ends where it meets the
edge of the glass. i find i can break the glass in the middle and work to
the ends of the cut much better with very little wastage with these rather
than starting at the edges with runners.

i agree that the handles of both plastic runners and ringstars do store too
much energy, and it's hard to know when to stop squeezing these tools. i
think a better, but more expensive, product would be ringstars made out of
metal, but having the same plastic tips.

regards,
charlie
phx, az
-----Original Message-----
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com <YWAH36A@prodigy.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>; esavad@home.net <esavad@home.net>;
glass@intrastar.net <glass@intrastar.net>
Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 8:18 PM
Subject: M-80 breaker


>>>has anyone used the morton M-80 breaker? i finally broke down, and
>i may
>get one. i have the ringstar pliers, currently. is it difficult to
>use?
>easy? i'm sure there's a learning curve to it, just like the ringstar.
>..
>is there any glass it can't do?  ...except for drapery, or heavy
>ripples, which i doubt would work anyway.
>
>---Mike Savad<<
>
>I would not buy the M-80 until you have checked out METAL running
>pliars. I mean the ones with the adjustable set screw.
>
>I used the M-80 for a period of time and then found that it just sat
>around taking up space so I sold it as used. It works pretty good but
>on heavy glass seems to have a built in problem. The tubler handles
>bend slightly and store a lot of energy. When the glass starts to
>break, this energy is transmitted to the glass and often the score
>does not run true.
>
>With metal running pliars, the set screw can be set so that there is
>no force transmitted after the glass starts to run. I only use the
>set screw for difficult cuts. Use the metal breakers without setting
>the screw for the majority of cuts because the alignment of the metal
>runner jaws helps to part the score evenly. Plastic runners are not
>an acceptable substitute for a good pair of metal runners as they
>also store a lot of energy in the handles.
>
>I have a Ringstar and do not like it nearly as well as my metal
>runners. I keep it around so I can demonstrate how it is inferior to
>metal runners.
>
>Bob


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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 09:21:25 1998
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X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye
From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Stained Glass Cookies
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:47:01 CST 6CDT
Message-ID: <199812091546.JAA23092@relay.acns.nwu.edu>
Organization: GSA-ORSP
Precedence: bulk

Dani--

There was a photo in the coupons section of Sunday's paper 
(Chicago Tribune) with a note "look for Stained Glass Cookie recipe 
at www.fleishmanns.com."  I've been trying all week, but keep 
getting the message that Netscape is unable to locate the server.  
Maybe somebody else could try (and let me know if they're 
successful).  

Kaye
(Who only "suffers from irregularity," Richard, in frequency of 
emerging from lurkdom.)
----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 09:35:20 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Soldering Question
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:21:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.52138.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Chris & Al Orowitz
>I have been putting
my pieces together since I started doing glass, which is about 7 yrs,
and have not had any pieces break because of the way I do it.<

Don't change your technique.  It works well...keep doing it.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 09:43:15 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Mobiles
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:21:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.52127.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "suzy@comcat.com"
>How big are the flamingoes? How do you make the hanging apparatus?
I made a mobile out of old unmatched bevels & it sold this weekend. It =

was the devil to keep from tangling up when packing & unpacking. I'm glad=
 =

it's gone.<

There are 3 flamingoes in different poses - one's standing on one leg,
one is on the nest, one is flying.  I ordered some acrylic mobile display=
s
from The Glass Eye Studio.  They are a clear acrylic swirl with clear
fishing line and earring hooks.  The are used to display the Glass Eye's
line of blown glass Christmas ornaments, but I also use them to construct=

stained glass mobiles.  I also have their 6-by and 12-by mobile displays.=

Glad you sold lots of things.  Maria Richmond tells me it was a wonderful=

show.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
http://www.igga.org/wood/
----
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 09:56:48 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: M-80 breaker
Date: Wed Dec  9 07:25:20 1998
Message-ID: <1998Dec10.5120.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sparks 

I agree with you about the M-80 and fireworks. 

There is a wonderful product called LockTite for keeping screws in.
There should be no reason don't work to keep your set screw out. I
generally run across it at hardware and sporting shops.

Note: There are different grades of LockTite. I think you want the
middle one. The top one is roughly equivalent to gluing the screw in
place.

Vic 

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com]
		Sent:	Wednesday, December 09, 1998 7:57 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re:  M-80 breaker


		I have 2 pair of metal running pliers and always go for
the ones with the
		longer handles - better leverage for my slightly
arthritic hand! Have never
		used the set screw though; I unscrewed it all the way
until it stuck, because
		it kept screwing itself in and getting in the way. A
real nuisance. I wish I
		could take it out completely, but it won't come out.

		I must confess though - when I saw "M-80" in the subject
line, the first thing
		I thought of was those big firecrackers and
I-forget-whose project with the
		random pieces of "sea glass".......


		Sparks (no pun intended)
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 10:01:22 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Karen L. Frangos" <classi@sssnet.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Thank you so much!
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:18:12 -0000
Message-ID: <199812091522.KAA17400@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Karen writes:
>
> I will give Patrick a bio as soon as I am inspired to write more about me.
>I had thought that I should get a written agreement from Patrick that he
>will not use these bio's for blackmail when and if times get tough.
>
Very good idea, Karen. Patrick when desperate, has resorted to his basest 
instincts!

>Here is my first question: Since you are designing the perfect studio, I
>would like to know how high to make the perfect work table for me. I am
>5'7". Do you sit at your table alot? Is a stool or a chair better?

For cutting glass, the table should be about waist high. I have another 
table for sitting, that's your standard "banquet table" height.

Suzannah

P.S. And I keep my grinder (plug is ground default) in the sink, which is 
high and shallow, it's the bottom of a stall shower.
 

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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 10:06:42 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!moondancer44
From: "Linda Johnson" <moondancer44@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, pkelly@n-link.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: This place is a wreck
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 08:24:19 PST
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.162419.0>
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I agree, Just take a deep breath and remember that this mess will wait 
for you but life goes on.  Don't miss out on the enjoyable things in 
life just because you're worried about a mess you've left behind.  
You'll get to it when you can.  Linda

>From owner-glass@daver.bungi.com Tue Dec  8 22:28:27 1998
>Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [207.126.97.2])
>	by max.bungi.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23550;
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>X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
>From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
>To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>Subject: RE: This place is a wreck
>Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:44:04 -0600
>Message-ID: <1998Dec8.16444.0>
>Precedence: bulk
>
>It is obvious that you didn't make enough to get your prosaic 
prescription
>refilled. (8-)
>
>Chill kid ..... just chill. The mess will be there tomorrow or the next 
day.
>
>I cleaned my garage last week and it looks like twister movie and all I 
did
>was a little suncatcher and a few odds and ends.
>
>I did finish a 24"x24" carousel horse and when I picked it up to put it 
in
>the frame .......... crack!
>
>OH Frit I said (yeah, yeah, that's what I said). That's my story and 
I'm
>sticking to it.
>
>How about having a house cleaning party and invite all of your friends?
>
>
>
>Patrick
>Roses and Rainbows
>
>----
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>


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 10:30:37 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Chris & Al Orowitz'" <glasshack@earthlink.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Thanks & one more question
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 11:51:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.65155.0>
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Chris,

Yee ghads, sounds as if you are talking about itsy-bitsy foil overlays. I 
can't imagine why the glass would crack with that. I have used large 
overlays (more than a square inch) and have never had a cracking problem 
unless I had the glass under stress - like if I forced a 3-D object into 
square when my pieces weren't really square. But I've never had a crack on 
an overlay. The trick is to daub the lead on, not paint it on. I find if I 
stay too long, the glue releases and I no longer have an overlay. At any 
rate, I think putting a wet anything under your work would worsen the 
problem.

Your mileage may vary. Others may disagree.

Linda

-----Original Message-----

Now for my other question:  I do quite a bit of small foil overlay -
mostly eyes.  I can't just use the solder blob as the eye has to be
almond shaped as opposed to round.  It also is two small to work with a
piece of foil and then silicon it on ( at least for me).  The problem is
that sometimes the glass cracks and sometimes not.  Now I realize the
temp has a lot to do with this so on cold days I do try to warm it up
first, but it doesn't always work. I do keep my iron temp very low.  If
I put a damp towel under it will that help or will I be creating more of
a problem as far as temp variation?


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From owner-glass Wed Dec  9 10:31:45 1998
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From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: 'bout time!
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:41:03 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec9.1413.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Although I DO deeply enjoy the "banter and non-glass posts", I am =
willing to sacrifice the JOY it causes me. PLEASE (most of you can set =
up a PRIVATE mailing list) confine it to conscripts of LIKE MIND (I am =
NOT one). If this is TOO much of an imposition, I beseech, beg, cajole, =
wheedle and so on to REMOVE me from your own list of recipients!
Should someone slip and have something relevant, I do deeply look =
forward to actually being exposed to it.
To forestall any snide comments about my abusing and or using any =
substances, my total usage is confined to a few Aleve and or Tylenol per =
day (stock in JNJ) for acute arthritis.
For the "newbies" who have not yet come to FULLY understand me, try the =
archives, as my older communications are fairly consistent with this =
post.
I may have, over the years contributed a modicum of insights into lamp =
making, and still enjoy answering questions.
In the spirit of the impending holiday season, I remain H



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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Although I DO deeply =
enjoy the=20
&quot;banter and non-glass posts&quot;, I am willing to sacrifice the =
JOY it=20
causes me. PLEASE (most of you can set up a PRIVATE mailing list) =
confine it to=20
conscripts of LIKE MIND (I am NOT one). If this is TOO much of an =
imposition, I=20
beseech, beg, cajole, wheedle and so on to REMOVE me from your own list =
of=20
recipients!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Should someone slip and =
have=20
something relevant, I do deeply look forward to actually being exposed =
to=20
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>To forestall any snide =
comments about=20
my abusing and or using any substances, my total usage is confined to a =
few=20
Aleve and or Tylenol per day (stock in JNJ) for acute =
arthritis.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>For the =
&quot;newbies&quot; who have=20
not yet come