From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 01:59:58 1998
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: BMarhon@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Need color help
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 04:33:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep1.03330.0>
References: <<1998Sep1.14926.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

Try several Glass Manufacturing web sites, most have pictures of their
glass on line.  There is a 'pebbled 'root beer glass, with rich
red-brown streaks, thing it is Spectrum.
http://www.spectrumglass.com/Stocklist.html

I think I saw it in the new Spectrum Catalog of Glass, which of course,
I can't find just now.  Above is their stock list, follow the buttons,
and there is a page for ordering the brochure.  It is really great
almost like having a sample set.  

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/



>  << I need to make a panel of an Irish Setter Dog.  Please, what color glass
>  do you think would match the dogs color.  I have been looking and just
>  can't seem to come up with something that is realistic looking.>>
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 07:38:07 1998
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:05:41 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Re:  Putty recipe/Warning/Tip
Date: Tue Sep  1 07:04:14 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep2.44014.0>
Precedence: bulk

OK I'll admit my ignorance what is the water bath method?

Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Michael J. Greer
[mailto:GreerStudios@compuserve.com]
		Sent:	Monday, August 31, 1998 6:10 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	RE:Re:  Putty recipe/Warning/Tip

		The cement recipe from =

		Peter Mollica's book:

		4 parts whiting
		2 parts Plaster of Paris* NOT
		1 1/2 parts Turpentine
		1 part boiled linseed oil
		1 part Portland cement**NOT!!
		Lampblack to color

		The consistency should be like
		oil sludge.

		**DO NOT use Portland cement -
		this is a recent change - replace =

		these amounts with more whiting.

		*Julie Sloan suggests not using
		to avoid lime bloom, however =

		after trying her suggestions, we
		have gone back to including it
		in the formula because 1.  It
		helps the cement set-up more
		quickly and 2.  lime bloom is =

		not an issue in our dry climate.

		For any of you doing repairs on old
		cemented windows, particularly ones
		that have bowed, we forego the water
		bath method and spray the windows
		lightly with WD40.  This seems to =

		soften the cement, even those with
		Portland, and allows for flattening of the
		panel, as well as removing the lead
		without breaking glass.  I would be =

		curious to know if other studios have
		experienced the same good luck with
		this technique that we have.

		Best regards,

		Dani Greer
		Greer Gallery & Studios
		http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/  =

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----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 08:10:54 1998
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:52:12 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: application/x-nextmail
Subject: Re:  Putty recipe/Warning/Tip
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 98 07:50:56 -0700
Message-ID: <m0zDrlq-000LkTC@why.az.stratus.com>
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

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`
end
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 08:49:58 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: cybersol.com!TWLARRY
From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry)
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: picking up kiln wash on projects
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 10:23:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep1.62344.0>
References: <<1998Aug31.231647.0>>
Organization: Trade Winds
Precedence: bulk

Steve Richard wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> I've had a problem with my kiln wash for some time now.
> 
> The kiln wash sticks to the back of my projects often.  It is worst with
> Spectrum (and especially with their opals).  The standard batt wash used
> in ceramics is picked up much more easily than the Hi-Line product.
> 
> I paint the wash on to the shelf "up" and "down" and diagonally left to
> right and right to left.  Fire shelf to about 260 C, hold for 10mins
> with kiln vented.  Then smooth surface with hand or cloth (after it has
> cooled, of course).  This works fine for slumping, but almost always in
> fusing the Spectrum picks up some or all of the wash underneath it.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to avoid this?
> Hi Steve,
I used to have the same problem.  I have found if you don't go over
1450  f the pieces won't stick.  I hold that temp for one hour.  I have
also found that a light sprinkling of talc or baby powder helps too.  I
am able to get through 3 firing without replacing the wash.

TWLARRY
> Steve
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 10:06:56 1998
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X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re:  Putty recipe/Warning/Tip
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 98 08:54:06 -0700
Message-ID: <m0zDskw-000LkTC@why.az.stratus.com>
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

geez, you'd think i'd learn.

here's a copy of the pertinent post from the archives:

Return-Path: <owner-glass@daver.bungi.com>
X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Cement Recipe One More Time?
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:46:51 -0400
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com

Here ya go.  This is a compilation of various threads relating to the
cement recipes.
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Charles ask that we post our cement recipe so here it is:
 =

1 part Portland cement*
2 parts Plaster of Paris
4 parts whiting
1 part linseed oil
1 1/2- 2 parts mineral spirits or turpentine
lamp black or other "cement" colors (alkali proof) =3D
 =

 =

A "part" can be any measure - we use 1/2 cup portions.  At this proportio=
n,
use about two
Tbsp. of color.  We usually use black, but some might rather use yellow
ochre for brass
channel.  *We've read articles that inclusion of Portland cement is of
questionable worth,
but Mike learned to make cement this way 20+ years ago and has been makin=
g
it that way
ever since. Any opinions?

After making cement, apply to your panel working the goo into the channel=
s.
Then dust
with whiting and clean off the goo with a palmetto brush (this is the bes=
t
part, because
this is where the lead takes on a really beautiful burnish).  Save your
leftover, dirty whiting
from this stage to make your next batch of cement.  Be sure to sift it
first.  Leave the
panels sit overnight for the cement to set-up.  Then detail in the mornin=
g
where the
cement has settled and oozed a bit in the corners. This technique is dirt=
y
and hard work,
but fast and worth every ounce of energy when you see the end result.  Th=
e
only time it's
not a good idea is when your triple-glazing (sandwiching) which we avoid
whenever
possible.

Any better ideas or additions to this are welcome. =

Best regards, Dani Greer
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>

I'm going to post what I think is the corrected cement recipe per Julie's=

amendments:
 =

7 parts whiting
1 part boiled linseed oil
1 1/2-2 parts mineral spirits
1-2 Tbsp. lamp black or other colorant
 =

Someone (Len?) also mentioned japan drier - quantity would probably be
minimal.  We haven't tried this out yet - any comments from the experts? =

Can Elisabeth give this recipe to her students? Any other
changes/improvements?  Thanks for the feedback. Best regards,   Dani Gree=
r
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM

 =

>  Exactly what =

> IS whiting?? My understanding is that it is powdered chalk; yet =

> other people tell me it's plaster, others again tell me it's a =

> mixture of chalk AND plaster; others again tell me it is dead, =

> inactive plaster. It's white so it's called whiting. There must be =

> more to it than that...
> So what is it exactly???
 =

This from Julie Sloan's "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," =

<http://www.aiap.com/     with permission:
 =

Traditionally, waterproofing compound was composed basically of boiled
linseed oil and whiting, with plaster of Paris to extend the mixture,
turpentine to thin it, red, white or yellow lead as a drier of the
oil, and lamp black to color the compound grey. These six ingredients
are found in most recipes for waterproofing putty from the nineteenth
century until the mid-1970s, when the use of lead was outlawed in the
US.
 =

Linseed oil is a drying oil, used as the medium in artists' oil paint.
In waterproofing compound, boiled linseed oil is used because it dries
more quickly than unboiled oil. The process of drying is not a
volatilization; that is, nothing evaporates from linseed oil to leave
a solid behind, which is what happens when lacquers or watercolors,
for instance, dry. Instead, linseed oil oxidizes and polymerizes,
meaning that it absorbs oxygen from the atmosphere, which causes a
chemical change in the oil and results in its thickening and
hardening. A chemical change cannot be re-versed; set waterproofing
compound can never be dissolved to its constituent components of
linseed oil and whiting, unlike lacquer, for instance, which can be
dissolved in the medium in which it was applied originally.
 =

This absorption of oxygen and subsequent chemical change begins to
take place when linseed oil is heated or exposed to driers or other
chemicals, or to sunlight. This is the beginning of the polymerization
process. Boiled linseed oil is not actually boiled; it is heated until
oxidation begins, but the boiling point is not reached. Today,
"boiled" oil is dried with chemicals. This drying process results in a
thicker substance which takes less time to fully polymerize.
Ultimately, when applied and left to set in the air, the fully
polymerized (or dried) oil becomes hard, very durable and waterproof.
Although full drying requires literally tens of years (especially in
thick applications, such as in a bevel), initial oxidation and drying
is achieved in two or three days, after which time a skin or harder
surface has formed which may be painted. Sunlight aids in the drying
process, although too much sun causes cracking.
 =

Whiting is powdered calcium carbonate, or chalk. It is inert, meaning
that it reacts chemically with nothing. It has long been used as an
inexpensive and inferior white pigment in non-oil paints or an
extender for oil paints. Combined with linseed oil, it has a long
history as a putty used in repairing paintings, not to mention in the
glazing of windows.
 =

Plaster of Paris is calcium sulfate. It is produced by roasting gypsum
(which is also calcium sulfate) to drive off most of the water bonded
to its molecules. This allows plaster of Paris to become active,
capable of readily and quickly re-combining with water to form a hard,
brittle material. This ability to combine with water is probably not
why it was used in putties, where such a hard-setting, brittle,
water-soluble material is not desired. While whiting is used as an
extender for oil paints, plaster was considered inferior for this use
because of its hygroscopic nature (meaning it absorbs water from the
air). However, in linseed-oil putty, plaster is used as an inexpensive
extender. In putty recipes, whiting is listed as the principle solid
ingredient. Putty can be made without plaster, but not without
whiting. While plaster is listed in many (but not all) recipes, it is
always in quantities smaller than those required of whiting --
typically, three or four parts whiting to two or three parts plaster.
 =

Turpentine is the distillate of resin from coniferous trees. It is a
commonly-used solvent for oil painting, having a slower evaporation
rate, lower level of flammability, and lower toxicity than solvents
such as kerosene, which will also thin linseed oil. As turpentine
dries, it becomes thick and viscous, which adds to the putty-like
quality of waterproofing compound.
 =

Red lead (Pb3O4) is made by heating white lead (basic lead carbonate,
2PbCO3.Pb(OH)2, the corrosion product of lead exposed to acetic or
other organic acids, used for pigments in white paints) or litharge
(PbO, also called yellow lead or massicot). None of these lead
products is commercially available in the United States today, either
uncombined or as part of another substance. Red lead is not primarily
used as a pigment in paints because it turns black or brown on
exposure to air, but its characteristic as an anti-corrosive made it
useful as the primary ingredient of rust-inhibiting paints. (The
familiar red paint used to prime iron and steel buildings and bridges,
most notably the Golden Gate Bridge, was red lead paint.) Although
white lead was, for many generations, the principle white paint
pigment, lead oxides are more important in paints and putties because
they are driers, added to linseed oil to hasten polymerization. When
lampblack is used to color the putty, which slows the drying process,
the siccative (or drying) nature of red lead becomes even more
important. The red lead in waterproofing compound may have served a
dual purpose: to help the waterproofing compound set, and to prime the
metal.
 =

Since red lead is no longer used in waterproofing compounds, many
experienced glaziers and restorers feel that the waterproofing
compounds commercially available today are of inferior quality to
those available prior to the banning of red and white lead in the
United States. They do not set as well or last as long as red lead
waterproofing compound.
 =

Lamp black (also called carbon black) is a fine, almost pure carbon
powder used as a pigment. It is the soot created from burning
petroleum oils, tars or resins. It has been used since time
immemorial as an oil pigment. Used as the coloring agent of
waterproofing putty, it will retard the drying of the linseed oil
unless driers, like red lead, are added. Today, when we cannot use red
lead in putty, it is important that the amount of lampblack used is
kept to a minimum.
 =

The recipes for waterproofing compound found in stained glass manuals
vary. Amounts of materials differ or are not stated and other
materials are added depending on the author. These other materials
include Japan driers, "patent driers" (metallic salts, usually lead,
cobalt, or manganese) and gold size (a fast-drying varnish), added to
accelerate the drying of the linseed oil. Some recipes call for
"vegetable black" instead of lamp black. (This is a carbon black
pigment derived by burning vegetable matter rather than petroleum
products.)
 =

The most controversial and potentially dangerous ingredient for window
putties is Portland cement. It is only in the last thirty to forty
years that Portland cement has found its way into glazing putties.
Portland cement is a calcined mixture of roughly three parts of
calcium carbonate (chalk or limestone) to one part aluminum silicates
(clay). Its name derives from the similarity in appearance and
hardness to Portland (England) lime-stone. Portland cement sets up in
much the same way plaster of Paris does, by reacting with water to
create heat. However, whereas plaster sets very quickly and is
ultimately rather brittle but soluble in water, Portland cement
continues to harden for a long period of time and results in a very
hard, insoluble material.
 =

The reason this material is dangerous to use on windows is its
hardness. A leaded glass window must move with the expansion and
contraction of the lead came during thermal changes and with wind
pressure. As Portland cement hardens and becomes more rigid, it allows
the window to move less and less. Because the cement will not flex or
crack if the window is forced to move, the glass is likely to break.
In addition, because Portland cement is insoluble, it will be
virtually impossible to dismantle the panel without breaking glass. It
also exhibits excellent adhesion to glass, meaning that even if the
panel comes apart, the putty is very difficult to remove from the
glass.
 =

Modern commercially available putties usually contain elastomers.
These are synthetic compounds designed to keep the putty elastic for
many years, preventing it from hardening up to a rock-like
consistency. None of these has been around long enough for us to know
exactly how long they will perform their task. In Europe, butyl mastic
is a favored putty with good aging characteristics, but its
workability is only fair and it is not presently available in the
United States.
 =

Most of the recipes require that the waterproofing compound be mixed
with enough turpentine and linseed oil to render it somewhat soupy or
"thick as treacle" (molasses). It is scooped onto the panel and forced
under the flanges of the came using a natural bristle brush. Often it
oozes out the opposite side of the panel, which is desirable,
according to some of the handbooks, because then you know that the
putty has gotten into the groove of the came. However, be cautioned
that the putty should not be too runny or there will be nothing left
under the flanges when the oozing has stopped.
 =

This soupy mixture is not recommended, however, if there is plating on
the window. Putty that is runny enough to ooze through the came will
continue to ooze between the plates. When plating is present, a stiff,
thick putty is a better choice, made by lessening the amount of
turpentine used to thin the mixture, or by adding more whiting. It is
applied with the thumb, because it is too thick to brush.
 =

In much restoration, a thick putty is often recommended because it is
easier to control. Thumbing the putty keeps the spread of oil on the
glass in check, making cleaning easier. Also, because a stiff putty
does not ooze, cleaning will have to performed less often. In plated
windows, each layer of plating must be puttied before the next layer
can be soldered in place. This creates its own problems, though, if
the putty boils as the leads are heated for soldering. Care must be
used in this process. If fragile paint or glass exists, even if it has
been consolidated, it may not be desirable to subject it to the rigors
of being scrubbed with bristle brushes and oily putty. Paint or glass
that is textured could trap the putty and be very difficult to clean.
 =

Regardless of whether thick or thin putty is used, cleaning the panel
after puttying is crucial. Studies in Europe have shown that the oils
in putty, if not properly cleaned off the glass, will eventually
corrode glass paint. Liberal dusting and rubbing with whiting is the
most effective, although some glaziers also swear by sawdust. Use of
any of these should be accompanied by wearing a dust mask to prevent
aspiration of the dust. As the putty sets, further cutting back and
cleaning may be necessary to remove oils that travel to the surface.
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: wood@telalink.net
To: glass@bungi.com
 =

Here is the cement recipe I was given when I learned to do leaded
windows: 1 part boiled linseed oil, 1/2 part turpentine, color, and
enough whiting to make the consistency that you wish. For color we use
black paint tint from the paint store. A little goes a long way. I mix
my cement to a thick consistency and thumb push it under the lead came.
I clean up with whiting, let it sit for 24 hrs., then turn and repeat
for the other side. I clean the glass with Hi-Sheen, then rub polishing
compound over the came, dry to a haze, rub off, add black patina, let
dry thoroughly, then brush. I use a horse hair brush (brush made of hair
from horses) to polish the lead to a shiny black. =


Question: Is there such a thing as black whiting or how would one tint
it black? Not very often, but sometimes I get just a few spots that tend
to show some of the white color of the whiting that I used to clean it.
The horse hair brush usually takes care of it, but it would be nice not
to have it to begin with.
 =

Sandy
Creations In Glass

---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 16:17:54 1998
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Subject: Sept. Tampa Home Show and Glass Show
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:48:35 EDT
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Hey everyone! Someone had e-mailed me some info regarding the Tampa show this
weekend, I accidently deleted it.  Could you please resend?  Thank you :)
Linda 
Gooooooooooooooo   GGGGGGGAAAAAAATTTTTOOOOOORS
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 19:54:03 1998
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Thanks for the replies and especially the explanations of all the ingredient's
functions.  Facinating.

Leslye
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 09:28:12 1998
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From: Scott Evans <sae@netins.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Wash sinks
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 10:29:29 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980902102929.01e3a100@pop3.netins.net>
References: <<1998Aug25.5256.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I recently moved into a new house, and have the opportunity to pretty much
design my own stained-glass area.  One feature I'm a bit befuddled about is
what to do for a sink.  In my old house there was a laundry washtub (one of
those 2x2x2 tub things on legs) the worked, but it wasn't very good for
washing off big projects.  

I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
like/dislike?  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Scott
sae@netins.net



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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 10:37:21 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Wash sinks
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:52:04 EDT
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In a message dated 9/2/98 11:29:28 AM Central Daylight Time, sae@netins.net
writes:

<< I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
 laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
 sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
 reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
 like/dislike?  Any suggestions? >>

The best set up I have seen (wish I had room for it) was to use a shower floor
basin as the sink.  You can get different sizes of course, but even the
smaller ones are deep enough and wide enough to do most panels, windows, etc.,
unless you are talking commercial windows, and then you would need a larger
one.

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 11:45:06 1998
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X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Wash sinks
Date: Wed,  2 Sep 98 10:45:00 -0700
Message-ID: <m0zEGxp-000LkTC@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<1998Aug25.5256.0>>>
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
<snip>
> I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
> laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
> sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
> reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
> like/dislike?  Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Scott
> sae@netins.net

can't you just use your bathtub? :-) that wouldn't have a high spousal  
approval factor (SAF) around here.

i build everything on a board of some type, either a sheet of plywood for  
large panels, a 2x10 or 2x12 for sidelights, or smaller sheet of ply for  
smaller items. i just take the entire board out to my driveway to scrub and  
hose the pieces off. of course, we don't get snow/ice here so i can do this  
year round.

no matter what size sink you make, it'll not be big enough for everything  
eventually. also, you won't be able to do large 3D pieces in a shallow sink  
easily.

charlie
---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 12:59:36 1998
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X-Path: mail1.ciwemb.edu!jewell
From: "Connie Jewell" <jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu>
To: " " <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: WASH SINKS
Date: 2 Sep 1998 15:10:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep2.111036.0>
Precedence: bulk

  Scott you might just want to check into a Darkroom sink.  They come made out
of stainless steel or ABS Plastic. As an example they have measurements
something like,
69"long by 26" wide and 4.5" deep perfect for larger panels. You can even get
something called a "sink mat" for them which is made of  ribbed soft
PVCmaterial  kinda of a basket weave to let the water go through but it will
cushion your panel and if it would happen to slip out of your hand it wouldn't
slame down into a hard Plastic or steel sink bed.  The smallest one I see
listed in my catolgues are about 48"x24"x4.5".  Calumet Photographic Supple in
Bensenville Il. 1-888-888-9083, they also have stores in the following cites:
Chicago, New York & Los Angeles. And the Calumet people are usually very
helpful on the phone.
 Also probably any larger local professional style photo supply place would be
able to help you as well.
  Just an idea. Even if you made you own you might want to consider purchasing
the mat.

Good Luck 
Jewell
jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu
--------------------------------------
Date: 9/2/98 12:45 PM
To: Connie Jewell
From: Scott Evans
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From: Scott Evans <sae@netins.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Wash sinks
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 10:29:29 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980902102929.01e3a100@pop3.netins.net>
References: <<1998Aug25.5256.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I recently moved into a new house, and have the opportunity to pretty much
design my own stained-glass area.  One feature I'm a bit befuddled about is
what to do for a sink.  In my old house there was a laundry washtub (one of
those 2x2x2 tub things on legs) the worked, but it wasn't very good for
washing off big projects.  

I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
like/dislike?  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Scott
sae@netins.net



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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 14:57:17 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Scott Evans <sae@netins.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wash sinks
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 17:35:37 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep2.133537.0>
References: <<3.0.5.32.19980902102929.01e3a100@pop3.netins.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Scott Evans wrote:
> 
> I recently moved into a new house, and have the opportunity to pretty much
> design my own stained-glass area.  One feature I'm a bit befuddled about is
> what to do for a sink.  In my old house there was a laundry washtub (one of
> those 2x2x2 tub things on legs) the worked, but it wasn't very good for
> washing off big projects.
> 
> I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
> laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
> sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
> reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
> like/dislike?  Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Scott
> sae@netins.net
> 
> ----
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i heard of people using the bottom of a shower stall mounted on a table
used as a sink. other's have used a whole bathtub (also mounted on a
table).

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 17:06:32 1998
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From: Tiffany-Glas@t-online.de (Herbert Luidolt)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 01:38:29 +0200
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 AT    http://www.bastelzauber.com you found a link to a Site with
pictures from the GlasTec in Duesseldorf (go from Tuesday to 
Saturday this week). The text file are in germany language. Maybe 
anyone could translate this? If not, take a look to the pictures.

herbert

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 17:35:02 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Wash sinks
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:32:17 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809022232.PAA11164@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Scott,
For the larger jobs (or smaller) you can design a trough on the floor and
run a garden hose. The larger panels, like lets say 4' x 6' can just lean up
against the wall while standing in the trough. The outlet running from the
trough just goes outside...and even works in very cold winters (small ice
skating rink, chuckle, but that's okay if off to the side).
Cindy


>
>Scott Evans wrote:
>> 
>> I recently moved into a new house, and have the opportunity to pretty much
>> design my own stained-glass area.  One feature I'm a bit befuddled about is
>> what to do for a sink.  In my old house there was a laundry washtub (one of
>> those 2x2x2 tub things on legs) the worked, but it wasn't very good for
>> washing off big projects.
>> 
>> I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
>> laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
>> sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
>> reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
>> like/dislike?  Any suggestions?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Scott
>> sae@netins.net
>> 

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 19:42:13 1998
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Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 22:27:02 -0500
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 23:46:35 1998
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X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage
From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:06:57 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep2.16657.0>
Precedence: bulk

My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the sink do to the tiny
bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He works at a company
where they do lots of soldering.  The company found years ago that those
tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few years.  I make a lot
of small foiled items and quite often there are tiny bits of solder that I
don't see until clean up.  I usually scrub my pieces in a large bucket and
then pour the water outside.  Have any of you experienced problems with
solder clogging drains?   I really get tired of filling up those buckets!

Thanks,

Cheryl

-




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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 01:16:55 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: bird_cage@email.msn.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu,  3 Sep 1998 03:38:03, -0500
Message-ID: <199809030738.DAA11606@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the sink do to 
the tiny
bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He works at a 
company
where they do lots of soldering.  The company found years ago that 
those
tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few years.  I make 
a lot
of small foiled items and quite often there are tiny bits of solder 
that I
don't see until clean up.  I usually scrub my pieces in a large 
bucket and
then pour the water outside.  Have any of you experienced problems 
with
solder clogging drains?   I really get tired of filling up those 
buckets!

Thanks,

Cheryl<<

Now this is an interesting problem. Some thoughts:

1. I doubt you are going to clog up your plumbing but you can check 
the trap that sinks have by code. Pull the trap and see what you have 
been trapping.

2. Is it nice to put solder balls down your sink? Probably not and 
likely not legal if the fine print is read on the municipal code.

3. I would rather you used the sink after removing solder balls from 
your work. Using a bucket and pouring it outside leads to lead 
contamination that I would guess is neither safe or legal. Hope you 
do not pour the waste water in the garden or an area where children 
play now or in the next XXX years.

4. I would like to know what others think on this subject. Is there a 
balance between what is practical and safety? I for one would like to 
know.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 01:44:54 1998
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X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer
From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Wash sinks
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:07:21 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep2.16721.0>
Precedence: bulk

Scott
To begin with, I'm not sure why you want to lay your window flat to clean 
it, unless you are using whiting, which does not require a sink. I wash all 
my windows vertical from top to bottom then rinse top to bottom with hot 
water. The sink does not have to be wide or deep, just long (to the extent 
of the longest window you might consider doing). I actually found a 
stainless steel restaurant sink at an auction, all plumbed and ready to go. 
A previous smaller sink I had made using plywood to the shape I wanted then 
fiberglassed the surfaces, and it is still in great shape and waterproof. 
The latter is probably your best bet. Oh yes, you may want to consider 
rather than just a tap, a flexible hose with a rinsing head, (you could use 
the pull out type of rinser found in many kitchen sinks)
Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada

-----Original Message-----
From:	Scott Evans [SMTP:sae@netins.net]
Sent:	Wednesday, September 02, 1998 8:29 AM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Wash sinks

I recently moved into a new house, and have the opportunity to pretty much
design my own stained-glass area.  One feature I'm a bit befuddled about is
what to do for a sink.  In my old house there was a laundry washtub (one of
those 2x2x2 tub things on legs) the worked, but it wasn't very good for
washing off big projects.

I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
like/dislike?  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Scott
sae@netins.net



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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 03:53:45 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:04:40 +0000
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Nice to hear from you again Herbert!
Thank you for sharing the Glas-Tec exhibition in Duesseldorf with us.
I spent a delightful hour or so exploring the exhibition with you.
Hey you guys Across the Pond; well worth a visit (even if it IS all 
in German).
 Am also interested in the CD-roms you have produced and 
will get back to you separately about those.
Well done!
Toll gemacht!!

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Herbert in Germany wrote:
>  AT    http://www.bastelzauber.com you found a link to a Site with
> pictures from the GlasTec in Duesseldorf (go from Tuesday to 
> Saturday this week). The text file are in germany language. Maybe 
> anyone could translate this? If not, take a look to the pictures.
> 
> 
 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 04:23:26 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: tiny solder balls..........
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:47:54 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.104754.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the sink do to the tiny
bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He works at a company
where they do lots of soldering.  The company found years ago that those
tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few years.  

Hello All,

All things are relative.   How much soldering do you do compared to your
husband's work?   How much other water do you run down your drains?   What
else is this sink used for?   Do you knock all the loose solder off before you
wash the pieces?   How bad would it be taking the trap apart in a few years
and cleaning it or calling a plumber to do it for you?   

I personally belong to the use the bath tub school of thought.   It may not be
the safest lead wise in terms of health or ecology but it is about all I have.
I wash the glass, then wash the tub, love those multi function tasks.

You guys are great, thanks for all the useful info.

Pat
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 06:27:06 1998
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From: Leslye2@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: design question
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:12:46 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.131246.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am making the windows for my entry- 2 sidelights and door (halflights).  The
sidelights have matching small bevel clusters and the door has a large
cluster.   The sidelights have bevel borders and the door has a border of
ripple glass and then a bevel border.  The top of the clusters will be at the
same height.   My question has to do with the lines that break up the
background.
Does it matter if the lead lines line up across all 3 windows? Some of them
will not be able to be the same because of the different size of the clusters.
Is this a basic principle of design?  The bevel borders are not the same size
either.  Am I messing up this project with my ignorance of design?
Thanks for your advice,
Leslye
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 07:15:17 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:28:12 +0000
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> Thank you for sharing the Glas-Tec exhibition in Duesseldorf with us.
> I spent a delightful hour or so exploring the exhibition with you.
> Hey you guys Across the Pond; well worth a visit (even if it IS all 
> in German)

Here's a neat trick. Go to
http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
and type in the URL you want to translate into English. Select the 
original langage to English button and click on "Translate." You'll 
get the site in English then. Cool, huh?

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 07:24:54 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:44:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.54417.0>
References: <<1998Sep2.16657.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Doug Parrott wrote:
> 
> My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the sink do to the tiny
> bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He works at a company
> where they do lots of soldering.  The company found years ago that those
> tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few years.  I make a lot
> of small foiled items and quite often there are tiny bits of solder that I
> don't see until clean up.  I usually scrub my pieces in a large bucket and
> then pour the water outside.  Have any of you experienced problems with
> solder clogging drains?   I really get tired of filling up those buckets!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cheryl
> 
> -
> 
> ----
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i personally never have, though i try to remove the large drops before
washing. most of the time the remaining solder sits on the surface, and
i can wipe up the solder. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 07:33:54 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:22:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.52219.0>
Precedence: bulk

How about putting a very fine filter, such as a piece of panty hose
into the sink's basin.  This will catch the tiny bits of solder as you
are washing it, and prevents them from going down the sink.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 07:45:34 1998
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From: Kath8284@aol.com
To: YWAH36A@prodigy.com, Glass@Bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:49:43 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.134943.0>
Precedence: bulk

   I keep a bottle of Windex and rolls of paper towels in my work area.  After
I finish every piece of glass, I spray them down with the Windex and wipe with
the paper towels.  When I leave the Studio, I take the glass work to the
laundry  room sink for a thorough cleaning with dish washing detergent.  Doing
this I never have the little bits of solder going into my sink.

   Water and Vinegar would work just as well as the Windex too.........more
cost efficient also.  Duh.....that just hit me like a "rock"......been using
the Windex for years and the "Vinegar and Water" just popped into
mind........."Sometimes you feel like a nut".......

Kathy
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 07:55:14 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Leslye2@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: design question
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:57:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.55743.0>
References: <<1998Sep3.131246.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Leslye2@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I am making the windows for my entry- 2 sidelights and door (halflights).  The
> sidelights have matching small bevel clusters and the door has a large
> cluster.   The sidelights have bevel borders and the door has a border of
> ripple glass and then a bevel border.  The top of the clusters will be at the
> same height.   My question has to do with the lines that break up the
> background.
> Does it matter if the lead lines line up across all 3 windows? Some of them
> will not be able to be the same because of the different size of the clusters.
> Is this a basic principle of design?  The bevel borders are not the same size
> either.  Am I messing up this project with my ignorance of design?
> Thanks for your advice,
> Leslye
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

at the very minimum, i'd mirror the sidelights. those lines should
connect. the center door does'nt really have to. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 08:25:26 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu Sep  3 08:06:24 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.54224.0>
Precedence: bulk

I made my own lead trap out of a flange and some screen. 
The "lip" of the flange should overlap the drain a little. 
Originally I used duct tape to hold the screen in place, but latter
found cable ties work better.

The idea came from looking at a lint trap on the washing machine hose.

If anyone has any ideas what to do with the salvaged solder I'd love to
hear them.


Vic 
		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Doug Parrott [mailto:bird_cage@email.msn.com]
		Sent:	Thursday, September 03, 1998 2:07 AM
		To:	bungi group
		Subject:	Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder

		My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the
sink do to the tiny
		bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He
works at a company
		where they do lots of soldering.  The company found
years ago that those
		tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few
years.  I make a lot
		of small foiled items and quite often there are tiny
bits of solder that I
		don't see until clean up.  I usually scrub my pieces in
a large bucket and
		then pour the water outside.  Have any of you
experienced problems with
		solder clogging drains?   I really get tired of filling
up those buckets!

		Thanks,

		Cheryl

		-




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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 08:57:33 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:09:33 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.15933.0>
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In a message dated 9/3/98 9:47:19 AM Central Daylight Time, Kath8284@aol.com
writes:

<<   I keep a bottle of Windex and rolls of paper towels in my work area.
After
 I finish every piece of glass, I spray them down with the Windex and wipe
with
 the paper towels.  >>

I was told, from the beginning of doing glass, not to use any window cleaner
that has ammonia in it because it can dull the stained glass.  True or false?

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 09:31:50 1998
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: squirrel pattern needed
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:09:19 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.17919.0>
Precedence: bulk

I think that I have collected over 200 patterns up to now off the books
I have collected and the internet as well as 100megs or so of glass
images. A friend has asked me to do a suncatcher but it must have a
squirrel or squirrels in it. I have dogs ,cats,birds.people everything
except a squirrel. my minimum line art at present is terrible due to
lack of experience so a spectrum glass type of grade squirrel pattern
would be much appreciated if anybody has one or knows of one available.

ta very much

Brandon

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 09:38:09 1998
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From: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:25:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.72536.0>
References: <<1998Sep3.134943.0>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

It was my understanding not to use window cleaner with ammonia on our finished
peices. It reacts with the solder & patina. Have I been wrong all this time?

Kath8284@aol.com wrote:

>    I keep a bottle of Windex and rolls of paper towels in my work area.  After
> I finish every piece of glass, I spray them down with the Windex and wipe with
> the paper towels.  When I leave the Studio, I take the glass work to the
> laundry  room sink for a thorough cleaning with dish washing detergent.  Doing
> this I never have the little bits of solder going into my sink.
>
>    Water and Vinegar would work just as well as the Windex too.........more
> cost efficient also.  Duh.....that just hit me like a "rock"......been using
> the Windex for years and the "Vinegar and Water" just popped into
> mind........."Sometimes you feel like a nut".......
>
> Kathy
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 09:52:35 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:46:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.74647.0>
References: <<1998Sep4.54224.0>>
Precedence: bulk

daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano wrote:
> 
> I made my own lead trap out of a flange and some screen.
> The "lip" of the flange should overlap the drain a little.
> Originally I used duct tape to hold the screen in place, but latter
> found cable ties work better.
> 
> The idea came from looking at a lint trap on the washing machine hose.
> 
> If anyone has any ideas what to do with the salvaged solder I'd love to
> hear them.
> 
> Vic
>                 -----Original Message-----
>                 From:   Doug Parrott [mailto:bird_cage@email.msn.com]
>                 Sent:   Thursday, September 03, 1998 2:07 AM
>                 To:     bungi group
>                 Subject:        Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
> 
>                 My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the
> sink do to the tiny
>                 bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He
> works at a company
>                 where they do lots of soldering.  The company found
> years ago that those
>                 tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few
> years.  I make a lot
>                 of small foiled items and quite often there are tiny
> bits of solder that I
>                 don't see until clean up.  I usually scrub my pieces in
> a large bucket and
>                 then pour the water outside.  Have any of you
> experienced problems with
>                 solder clogging drains?   I really get tired of filling
> up those buckets!
> 
>                 Thanks,
> 
>                 Cheryl
> 
>                 -
> 
>                 ----
>                 For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
>                 To send to the list,      please mail to:
> glass@bungi.com
>                 Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i collect all the scrap from projects or repairs into a box. when the
box get's full (about 1-2 handfulls),  i melt it down. i have a few smal
ingot makers, actually it'a a lead mallet maker, but it does it's job. i
just got a lead anchor mold, and i'll probably be using that.

i use a metal ladel (the type for melting metals). i use a torch to melt
it down, and very carefully pour it into the mold. done right, you
should have shiny solder pouring, and the slag is left behind (along
with foil bits etc.

then i put the very non-virgin (but clean) solder ingots away. when i'm
working on a window i use this solder as a filler solder. i must have
saved several pounds of solder using this method. the 60/40 goes over
that as a bead. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 10:00:08 1998
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X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: vinegar and water
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:40:34 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809031540.IAA11224@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Kathy!
 
Yep, being a windex user too, (I had to stop the "famous" glazers brand
because of cost) 
I'll be trying vinegar and water soon:)

Cindy
Who knows she is a nut.grin



>>> Water and Vinegar would work just as well as the Windex too.........more
>cost efficient also.  Duh.....that just hit me like a "rock"......been using
>the Windex for years and the "Vinegar and Water" just popped into
>mind........."Sometimes you feel like a nut".......<<<
>
>Kathy
>----
>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 10:30:32 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: chemicals & tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:06:42 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809031506.IAA09938@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk


>>>>4. I would like to know what others think on this subject. Is there a 
>balance between what is practical and safety? I for one would like to 
>know.<<<
>
>Bob
>
 Hi Bob,
I don't live on a city sewer system, but run a septic field in the front
yard. And the tank needs to be pumped out every 4 years.
The fellow who does that, has told me heavy metals and chemicals thru my
system is not the best thing to do.
This stuff desperses into the soil in the yard, if not held in sludge in the
tank.
His considerations were to have the tank cleaned out a little quicker than
the usual to keep things under control... Now  I can see his reasoning as
some products on the market that we all use can slow down the natural
decomposing of waste, for people using a septic field. But when it lands in
the yard I consider that a toxic dump, whether I trash it by bucket or allow
it to flow. Yes that does bother me and haven't come up with a solution to
the problem and continue to do so.

But even though the grass is always green, doesn't mean it's good:)

In my closing thoughts, chuckle, I do feel better to know it's in the system
than tossed away by hose or bucket for the "next" unknowing owner of my
property.
But whether that's truely a good thing, I doubt it as we all play a part in
dumping garbage and that's a scary thought for years to come.

Cindy:)
Nothing like starting the day with heavy thoughts.grin.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 10:32:18 1998
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X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid
From: "Jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: <Leslye2@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: design question
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:00:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.8037.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,
I was reading an article just this week from Glass Craftman...about "What is
a Good Design" by Stu Goldman. pg 23.  It discusses
balance,symmetry,repetition,contrast,radiation,concentration and texture.
In fact, I have read the article a couple times, guess I can be alittle
dense at times...LOL.  But, still haven't figured out the differences
between which effects are necessary.  Plus, Mr Goldman states that there are
many more for composition design.  Argh...  But, maybe someone on the list
can tell you where to find the article or scan it for you...but haven't
picked up a scanner yet.  Good Luck with your design:-)
Jill Medlyn
jazzykid@tir.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Leslye2@aol.com <Leslye2@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 8:56 AM
Subject: design question


>I am making the windows for my entry- 2 sidelights and door (halflights).
The
>sidelights have matching small bevel clusters and the door has a large
>cluster.   The sidelights have bevel borders and the door has a border of
>ripple glass and then a bevel border.  The top of the clusters will be at
the
>same height.   My question has to do with the lines that break up the
>background.
>Does it matter if the lead lines line up across all 3 windows? Some of them
>will not be able to be the same because of the different size of the
clusters.
>Is this a basic principle of design?  The bevel borders are not the same
size
>either.  Am I messing up this project with my ignorance of design?
>Thanks for your advice,
>Leslye
>----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 11:06:33 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, Leslye2@aol.com
Subject: design question
Date: Thu,  3 Sep 1998 13:37:21, -0500
Message-ID: <199809031737.NAA11506@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>I am making the windows for my entry- 2 sidelights and door 
(halflights).  The
sidelights have matching small bevel clusters and the door has a 
large
cluster.   The sidelights have bevel borders and the door has a 
border of
ripple glass and then a bevel border.  The top of the clusters will 
be at the
same height.   My question has to do with the lines that break up 
the
background.
Does it matter if the lead lines line up across all 3 windows? Some 
of them
will not be able to be the same because of the different size of the 
clusters.
Is this a basic principle of design?  The bevel borders are not the 
same size
either.  Am I messing up this project with my ignorance of design?
Thanks for your advice,
Leslye<<

A few comments:
1. You say the tops of the four clusters are all at the same height. 
I generally perfer to have different size clusters all sharing the 
same center. Think it is a better compromise.
2. The door lights have a ripple glass outer boarder and not the 
sidelights. I suspect this is because the door lights are wider. I 
would rather change the width of the bevel boarders, say, 1 1/2" in 
door and 1" in sidelight. This might permit using the ripple in the 
sidelights also. Just a thought.
3.That the lead lines do not line up is to bad but sometimes 
necessary. Anyone studying your grid plan should be able to see why 
you made the logical choices you made.

Please realize that I am guessing at what much of this entryway will 
look like. My comments may not be valid. You sound like whatever you 
do it will work out well.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net

<Prodigy Distribution List>
TO: YWAH36A

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 11:39:30 1998
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X-Path: mail1.ciwemb.edu!jewell
From: "Connie Jewell" <jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu>
To: " " <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Glass Cleaners
Date: 3 Sep 1998 13:51:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.95131.0>
Precedence: bulk

  When I worked at a framing shop years ago we used vinegar & water and
instead of paper towels we used newspaper. Best glass cleaner combo ever!  
Jewell
jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 12:44:18 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Glass Cleaners
Date: Thu Sep  3 11:55:13 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.93113.0>
Precedence: bulk

What works better than newspaper, but costs more, is coffee filters. 
The filter absorbs the left over liquid that  causes streaks.

Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Connie Jewell [mailto:jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu]
		Sent:	Thursday, September 03, 1998 1:52 PM
		Subject:	Glass Cleaners

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		From:	"Connie Jewell" <jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu>
		To:	" " <glass@bungi.com>
		Subject: Glass Cleaners
		Date:	3 Sep 1998 13:51:31 -0400
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		  When I worked at a framing shop years ago we used
vinegar & water and
		instead of paper towels we used newspaper. Best glass
cleaner combo ever!  
		Jewell
		jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 15:16:15 1998
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:08:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.12838.0>
Precedence: bulk

You're right...Ammonia type glass cleaners react chemically with lead and
cause it to chalk.  Even after cleaning the chalk off, it will continue to
react.  The best product I've found is Kwick-Clean.   Ain't cheap; but a
little goes a long way.  They claim it will prevent chalking for 2 years.
I've been using it for, about, 8 months and love it.

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.
-----Original Message-----
From: K. See <atf@socent.org>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder


>It was my understanding not to use window cleaner with ammonia on our
finished
>peices. It reacts with the solder & patina. Have I been wrong all this
time?
>
>Kath8284@aol.com wrote:
>
>>    I keep a bottle of Windex and rolls of paper towels in my work area.
After
>> I finish every piece of glass, I spray them down with the Windex and wipe
with
>> the paper towels.  When I leave the Studio, I take the glass work to the
>> laundry  room sink for a thorough cleaning with dish washing detergent.
Doing
>> this I never have the little bits of solder going into my sink.
>>
>>    Water and Vinegar would work just as well as the Windex
too.........more
>> cost efficient also.  Duh.....that just hit me like a "rock"......been
using
>> the Windex for years and the "Vinegar and Water" just popped into
>> mind........."Sometimes you feel like a nut".......
>>
>> Kathy
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 17:16:30 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:21:00 +0000
Message-ID: <199809032225.XAA02455@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

WONDERFUL Albert!

Thanks for the tip! 
Don't need it myself, as I am quite comfortable with German, but 
being a foreigner in UK myself, am quite conscious of Language.
I myself would dearly like a closer and better communication between 
us here in Europe and you guys Across the Pond -, whatever the 
language. ANYTHING to facilitate and help on that level is really 
great. As it is, I admire Herbert for batting against the odds and  
even try and "talk". (HHhhhmmm... and Herbert.... spelling mistakes 
in the German text!! Tush, tush, tush!!   ;->   )
COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Albert wrote: 
> Here's a neat trick. Go to
> http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
> and type in the URL you want to translate into English. Select the 
> original langage to English button and click on "Translate." You'll 
> get the site in English then. Cool, huh?
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 17:38:00 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: squirrel pattern needed
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:21:00 +0000
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Hi Brandon (et al)

I can't do "line art" either.
But a squirrel consists mainly of 3 shapes: 2 ovals and a circle.
1 oval = tail;   2nd oval =body;  circle = head.     Then, you 
attach ears and feet.
That's it.
Then you play around with it, get the curl of the tail right.... or 
how YOU see it.
 Secret is to get the proportions/ angles right.
Squirrels are really quite basic shapes.
Go on, be a devil and experiment!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Brandon wrote:
> I think that I have collected over 200 patterns up to now off the books
> I have collected and the internet as well as 100megs or so of glass
> images. A friend has asked me to do a suncatcher but it must have a
> squirrel or squirrels in it. I have dogs ,cats,birds.people everything
> except a squirrel. my minimum line art at present is terrible due to
> lack of experience so a spectrum glass type of grade squirrel pattern
> would be much appreciated if anybody has one or knows of one available.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 18:10:53 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Labor Day Fair
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:16:54 -0400
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If any of you should HAPPEN
to be in Colorado Springs,
Colorado this weekend, stop
by the 24th Annual Commonwheel
Labor Day Arts and Crafts Fair!
I'll be in the *Sacred Circle:Art for
Holy Places tent.  Stop by and
say "Hi"!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 18:42:34 1998
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From: Darlene Hendler <mb.sympatico.ca@mb.sympatico.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: vinegar and water
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 20:16:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.13162.0>
References: <<199809031540.IAA11224@ns2.vphos.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Can anyone refresh my memory on the ratio of vinegar to water?  Thanks
for all the great ideas!

Darlene
> 
> ----
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From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: squirrel pattern needed
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 20:58:15 -0500
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Tried to respond directly, but it got booted back!!!!

Cheers!  Don't know if this will help, but if no one answers with any
patterns you might try the library in the children's section -- or coloring

books (sounds corny, I know, but they're easily adapted to stained glass).
I know there's at least a couple of children's books on the market that
have to do with squirrels.  Hope this helps and good luck!!!  Ta!

B. S. Jones wrote:

> I think that I have collected over 200 patterns up to now off the books
> I have collected and the internet as well as 100megs or so of glass
> images. A friend has asked me to do a suncatcher but it must have a
> squirrel or squirrels in it. I have dogs ,cats,birds.people everything
> except a squirrel. my minimum line art at present is terrible due to
> lack of experience so a spectrum glass type of grade squirrel pattern
> would be much appreciated if anybody has one or knows of one available.
>
> ta very much
>
> Brandon
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 20:16:39 1998
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X-Path: chalcot.com.au!chalcot
From: "Gordon Newell" <chalcot@chalcot.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Large Window
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:27:09 +1000
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.22279.0>
Precedence: bulk

G'Day,

I am a dabbler in leadlight (have done a few mirrors and lamps) and I want
to put a panel into an existing kitchen window.

This window is aluminium framed (96cm tall x 84cm wide inside). I won't be
removing the existing glass, just inserting the panel into the inside frame.

Will I need to reinforce a panel of this size?, considering that it will not
be exposed to the outside elements.

If so, what a the recommended methods.

Regards

Gordon Newell.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 21:22:56 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Copper colored glass?????
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:45:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.194513.0>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

I am doing a larger box, and need some copper colored glass.  Really
metallic copper color, but it need to be glass.  Goldstone ( which is
glass) is a man made gem stone, and that color would be perfect.  I
haven't a clue what companies make goldstone, or if it comes in sheet
form.  Any suggestions?  It should be 1/8" inch thick, not more than
3/16" at the most. I need 2-3 square feet.   

Thanks a Bunch,

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 21:39:17 1998
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X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights
From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F5869D668085D8B7D10AA4C5"
Subject: squirrel pattern
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:04:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.17425.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------F5869D668085D8B7D10AA4C5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tried to respond directly, but it got booted back!!!!

Cheers!  Don't know if this will help, but if no one answers
with any
patterns you might try the library in the children's section
-- or coloring
books (sounds corny, I know, but I think they could be
easily adapted to stained glass).
I know there's at least a couple of children's books on the
market that
have to do with squirrels.  Hope this helps and good
luck!!!  Ta!

B. S. Jones wrote:

> I think that I have collected over 200 patterns up to now
off the books
> I have collected and the internet as well as 100megs or so
of glass
> images. A friend has asked me to do a suncatcher but it
must have a
> squirrel or squirrels in it. I have dogs
,cats,birds.people everything
> except a squirrel. my minimum line art at present is
terrible due to
> lack of experience so a spectrum glass type of grade
squirrel pattern
> would be much appreciated if anybody has one or knows of
one available.
>
> ta very much
>
> Brandon
>

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n:              ;Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)
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--------------F5869D668085D8B7D10AA4C5--

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 22:23:53 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu
From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: pattern search
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:47:01 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.4471.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have been to the Pattern Search on Stained Glass Biz, as well as many other
web sites, to no avail.  Cannot anyone direct me to a pattern for praying
hands?  Also, a pattern for a unicorn?

Many Thanks!!!!!

Lu Ann <Whispy Blu@aol.com>
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 22:54:58 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: chalcot@chalcot.com.au
Subject: Re: Large Window
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:24:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.21249.0>
References: <<1998Sep4.22279.0>>
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Gordon,

If the truth be known reinforcement is just as, if not more important in
your situation.  Your window will be subjected to extremes of heat
buildup between the panes of glass that an "unprotected" window will
never have to bear!  

Another possible consideration that will not directly affect
reinforcement but can shorten the life of the window is moisture
entrapment and condensation.

It's late, but if I'm thinking straight, your window is nearly three feet
wide and so will need to be supported by a minimum of one rebar, possibly
two depending on the way the glass pieces in the design interlock with
one another.  Rebars can be 1/8" by 3/8" flat steel bars anchored into
the window frame and soldered to each lead line that they cross.  Solder
them so that the 1/8" side is against the lead and the 3/8" dimension
stands straight out from the surface of the glass. The bars should be
soldered on the inside or else they will cast shadows on the glass and be
distracting.  Also depending on the type of construction.  (Up till now I
have been assuming lead came.)

As for the condensation thing, see if it will be possible to drill a
couple of weep holes up into the space between the window and the S.G.
panel

Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:27:09 +1000 "Gordon Newell"
<chalcot@chalcot.com.au> writes:
>G'Day,
>
>I am a dabbler in leadlight (have done a few mirrors and lamps) and I 
>want
>to put a panel into an existing kitchen window.
>
>This window is aluminium framed (96cm tall x 84cm wide inside). I 
>won't be
>removing the existing glass, just inserting the panel into the inside 
>frame.
>
>Will I need to reinforce a panel of this size?, considering that it 
>will not
>be exposed to the outside elements.
>
>If so, what a the recommended methods.
>
>Regards
>
>Gordon Newell.
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 01:59:56 1998
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: squirrel pattern needed
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:16:33 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.101633.0>
Precedence: bulk

the designs are copyright free, is all right, but the use in any other
way 
may constitute copyright infringement and should be avoided, not only
for 
legal reasons, but also out of consideration for the original artist.
Just 
a friendly reminder, not accusing you :). Also let me know if this is 
readable or has "computer noise" as I had a recent mail program problem
and 
have had to reset

I should have clarified this.. the patterns are all out of books or off
sites that state that they can be used by anyone. Some of the books have
80 or more patterns. The images are off anything related to glass that I
have found on the internet and are part of the study period that I did
for two months before I even cut my first piece of glass. I had to find
out what was being done,what you could do and also what I thought I
could attempt myself. And also what I liked. As it turned out only the
glass pictures interested me and the work I have done up to now has been
of the art deco style which does not include painting and firing which
is way out of my league.
Interesting about how you mention that you might copy part of a
commercial design and use it for yor own personal use only. Is this a
general accepted code amongst professionals that they do not mind
amateurs copying their work within reason.Is there any legal tangle
involved here. 

Brandon


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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 02:14:41 1998
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From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Tracy Reitmann thanks..
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:47:50 +0100
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Tracy.. thanks for your reply , I can only reply to you via bungi
because your  ISP is banned on my site and my site  bham.ac.uk will
bounce all messages from it but will accept bungi ok so thanks for the
suggestions

Brandon.

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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 06:16:02 +0000
Message-ID: <199809041237.IAA15516@vger.vgernet.net>
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> COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)

> > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?

Well, it's a machine translation, so I wouldn't use it in business, 
for contracts, etc. You can try it out yourself. Type in a 
one-sentence bio about yourself, translate it into French, capture 
that and translate it into German, then into English. You'll see what 
I mean: it's approximate.

Oh, you can't do that. Okay: English to French and back will be 
enough for you to see what I mean.

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 07:04:19 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Copper colored glass?????
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 09:22:07 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.5227.0>
References: <<1998Sep3.194513.0>>
Precedence: bulk

leestat7 wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I am doing a larger box, and need some copper colored glass.  Really
> metallic copper color, but it need to be glass.  Goldstone ( which is
> glass) is a man made gem stone, and that color would be perfect.  I
> haven't a clue what companies make goldstone, or if it comes in sheet
> form.  Any suggestions?  It should be 1/8" inch thick, not more than
> 3/16" at the most. I need 2-3 square feet.
> 
> Thanks a Bunch,
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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i once had some amber hammered mirror. that looked something like
copper. i wonder if a mirror place can help you. after the silver
coating, copper is sometimes applied. maybe they cn electroplate copper
on the glass for you...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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X-Path: t-online.de!Tiffany-Glas
From: Tiffany-Glas@t-online.de (Herbert Luidolt)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 20:32:32 +0200
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.223232.0>
References: <<199809032225.XAA02455@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk



Toby schrieb:

> WONDERFUL Albert!
>
> Thanks for the tip!
> Don't need it myself, as I am quite comfortable with German, but
> being a foreigner in UK myself, am quite conscious of Language.
> I myself would dearly like a closer and better communication between
> us here in Europe and you guys Across the Pond -, whatever the
> language. ANYTHING to facilitate and help on that level is really
> great. As it is, I admire Herbert for batting against the odds and
> even try and "talk". (HHhhhmmm... and Herbert.... spelling mistakes
> in the German text!! Tush, tush, tush!!   ;->   )

OK! Yesterday i to the most, today in evening the rest. The first dayi
writing the German text in late night ;-)

herbert

> COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
>
> Albert wrote:
> > Here's a neat trick. Go to
> > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
> > and type in the URL you want to translate into English. Select the
> > original langage to English button and click on "Translate." You'll
> > get the site in English then. Cool, huh?
> >
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re:Pattern Search-Unicorn
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 11:03:33 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.4333.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

Glassy Moments book 3-Fact and Fancy (designs by Karen Ichino) has 3
unicorns. They are all very pretty, if you want me to send you them Lu
Ann I can do that. I searched the guild library and couldn't find this
book, I believe I purchased it from Delphi.

That coloring site had a unicorn too but no praying hands.

http://www.bconnex.net/~mbuchana/realms/page7/unicorn.gif


See ya,

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 14:59:32 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 16:47:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.124747.0>
References: <<199809032225.XAA02455@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

Now what is really fun is to take a short message in your own language,
use babelfish to translate it into another, then translate it back to
English.  But really, it can be useful to at least get the gist of a
message or a Website.  I've used it for business when I couldn't find
anyone who spoke the language.  Stay away from slang!

Dorothy K

Toby wrote:

> WONDERFUL Albert!
>
> Thanks for the tip!
> Don't need it myself, as I am quite comfortable with German, but
> being a foreigner in UK myself, am quite conscious of Language.
> I myself would dearly like a closer and better communication between
> us here in Europe and you guys Across the Pond -, whatever the
> language. ANYTHING to facilitate and help on that level is really
> great. As it is, I admire Herbert for batting against the odds and
> even try and "talk". (HHhhhmmm... and Herbert.... spelling mistakes
> in the German text!! Tush, tush, tush!!   ;->   )
> COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
>
> Albert wrote:
> > Here's a neat trick. Go to
> > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
> > and type in the URL you want to translate into English. Select the
> > original langage to English button and click on "Translate." You'll
> > get the site in English then. Cool, huh?
> >
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 15:22:02 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Sorry - History Lesson....!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 22:27:45 +0000
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Hey, Herbert!!
You are supposed to be on HOLIDAY!!!
Don't worry about what I say.... I'm only teasing you (Patrick will 
tell you all about this  Horrible Crazy Swede)!!
However, I WAS serious, when I said that I admired your efforts in 
overcoming all linguistic odds in communicating!
Hut auf!!!
Mach's weiter!!
By the way, Herbert, might Albert's suggestion of that particular 
"translation site" be of any help to you and your busniss?? It sounds 
wonderful  and maybe something you might be able to use (if it 
works...?) I have been very tempted to  stick my neck out and offer 
you a translation service (after all.... that's how I have been 
financing 15 years worth of university studies in 5 different 
countries...!) But maybe Albert's "translation site"  has all the 
answers... This - of course - has greater implications for not just 
US, but also for other people working in stained glass who want to 
reach other people beyond their own linguistic boundaries (The French 
for starters!!!)  People in Eastern Europe, Spain, Mexico, Japan, 
China and - dare I mention it - Taiwan.
And let's be honest about all of this; by talking, communicating and 
even getting to know "the enemy", we will learn a lot.
Herbert produced an excellent site of taking us round a German 
stained glass exhibition. His Guest Book are full of comments like "I 
wish I could speak/read German".
Some of us can; most of us can't
The English speaking world is extra-ordinarily lazy in learning 
non-English languages and learning about non-English culture. I 
should know!!!
When I first arrived in UK in 1960, the University Entrance 
Examination Course (A-Level) stated about Scandinavian and Swedish 
literature  in a dismissive 2-liner amounting to that "Scandinavia 
and Sweden does not have a history of literature" 
Did that get MY back up!!!
The Icelandic Sagas totally dismissed, the Nordic and Viking heritage 
that constitutes at least 25 per cent of British culture and history 
- totally dismissed; the British Legal System being based on the 
Viking Justice system totally ignored (even the word "lawyer" is 
Scandinavian; the jury system originates from the Vikings, the dozen 
concept is a heritage from the Vikings. And who was Alfred Nobel - 
the creator of the Nobel Prize????   ....And the Peace Prize??
Who was Celcius? Who was Linneaus, who was  Leif Erikson and who was 
the inventor of the propellor and who is L.M. Ericson.
And name me the first Woman Nobel Prize winner for literature....
25 percent of the English language owes its existance to 
Scandinavia. I just don't know how many millions there are of you in 
USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand,  ETC,, but in UK there are about 
60 million English speakers . There are 8 million of the likes of me 
in Sweden. 4 millions in Norway, another 4 millions in Denmark, 
another million in Iceland and about another 3 million in Finland. 
Small beer.
 You should know me by now - I always go back to basics.

Again, you should know me by now, when I come across someone trying & 
struggling to make a contribution to Bungi from a non-English 
background, I am ALL THERE, regardless of the language.
I am eagerly awaiting input from East Germany.....  Heavens, DO they 
have somne wonderful stained glass artists!! I have met some of them, 
I have even hosted some of them here in my own home. The obstacle is 
a language one.  Eastern Europe never l;earnt English as a first 
Foreign Language, it was either French, Russian or German (or even 
Japanese!!!). 
Since this Bungi List is mainly USA inspired,  I ask you to be 
particularly sensitive and appreciative of non-English people trying 
to join and make THEIR contributions. 
If Albert's "Translation List" really works, it would be wonderful 
help and tool.

Sorry, Albert .... have I dropped you in it....??

Ah, what the hell.... Am just a little cantankerous Swede with a 
passion for communication.....
Elisabeth 'n a worried Toby in UK


.Got your private 
e-mail . You are free to "burn me" (brennen) on your CD. Just enjoy 
your holiday and we'll talk when you get back.

Oh- by the way.... Patrick has become very q u i e t. Has he run out 
of steam / got fed up  with the crazy Swede / or.....MIGHT he be 
involved in some wonderful stained glass project???
Am holding my breath here.....
P-a-t-r-i-c-k ???!!! are you T-H-E-R-E ????  Yoohoo!!!??
Chicken!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> 
> 
> Toby schrieb:
> 
> > WONDERFUL Albert!
> >
> > Thanks for the tip!
> > Don't need it myself, as I am quite comfortable with German, but
> > being a foreigner in UK myself, am quite conscious of Language.
> > I myself would dearly like a closer and better communication between
> > us here in Europe and you guys Across the Pond -, whatever the
> > language. ANYTHING to facilitate and help on that level is really
> > great. As it is, I admire Herbert for batting against the odds and
> > even try and "talk". (HHhhhmmm... and Herbert.... spelling mistakes
> > in the German text!! Tush, tush, tush!!   ;->   )
> 
> OK! Yesterday i to the most, today in evening the rest. The first dayi
> writing the German text in late night ;-)
> 
> herbert
> 
> > COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)
> > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> >
> > Albert wrote:
> > > Here's a neat trick. Go to
> > > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
> > > and type in the URL you want to translate into English. Select the
> > > original langage to English button and click on "Translate." You'll
> > > get the site in English then. Cool, huh?
> > >
> > ----
> > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> > ----
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
> 
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 15:59:14 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:19:21 +0000
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Yep,
it sort of works. But it does also produce a lot of gibberish.
But it sure is better than "nuttin"
Eurpeans PLEASE take note.
Taking it from there, I'm sure that between the rest of us we can 
help.  There are Germans, French, Hispanic and the odd Swede amongst 
us. Herbert's efforts just sort of got me going. His efforts and site 
is well worth visiting. To have an English translation would 
certainly make it accessible to a lot more people. thanks to Albert!
How can we help non-English speakers further...?
Suggestions please??
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> 
> > COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)
> 
> > > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
> 
> Well, it's a machine translation, so I wouldn't use it in business, 
> for contracts, etc. You can try it out yourself. Type in a 
> one-sentence bio about yourself, translate it into French, capture 
> that and translate it into German, then into English. You'll see what 
> I mean: it's approximate.
> 
> Oh, you can't do that. Okay: English to French and back will be 
> enough for you to see what I mean.
> 
>
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 16:19:57 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:19:21 +0000
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Sounds like Chinese Whispers Game....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Dorothy wrote:
> Now what is really fun is to take a short message in your own language,
> use babelfish to translate it into another, then translate it back to
> English.  But really, it can be useful to at least get the gist of a
> message or a Website.  I've used it for business when I couldn't find
> anyone who spoke the language.  Stay away from slang!
> 

> Toby wrote:
> 
> > WONDERFUL Albert!
> >
> > Thanks for the tip!
> > Don't need it myself, as I am quite comfortable with German, but
> > being a foreigner in UK myself, am quite conscious of Language.
> > I myself would dearly like a closer and better communication between
> > us here in Europe and you guys Across the Pond -, whatever the
> > language. ANYTHING to facilitate and help on that level is really
> > great. As it is, I admire Herbert for batting against the odds and
> > even try and "talk". (HHhhhmmm... and Herbert.... spelling mistakes
> > in the German text!! Tush, tush, tush!!   ;->   )
> > COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)
> > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> >
> > Albert wrote:
> > > Here's a neat trick. Go to
> > > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
> > > and type in the URL you want to translate into English. Select the
> > > original langage to English button and click on "Translate." You'll
> > > get the site in English then. Cool, huh?
> > >
> > ----
> > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> > ----
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 17:30:53 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Klmxklm
From: Klmxklm@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Hexacon soldering irons
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:01:23 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep5.0123.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi:
I have 2 questions: First, can anyone tell me the merits (or drawbacks) of
using the "pistol" or "hatchet" handle type of soldering iron, such as
Hexacon?  Secondly, where can one purchase Hexacon irons retail?  Thanks!
"Mike" Mikolajczak
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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 23:05:18 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Language
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:29:33 -0500
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Yoohoo yourself Elisabeth. Am I here?

<<There are Germans, French, Hispanic and the odd Swede amongst  us>>  Your
words "odd Swede" I rest my case.

Patrick is back to teaching. (It's too damn hot for stained glass in the
garage 104 degrees Fahrenheit (was Fahrenheit also a Swede?).

I have many students from different parts of the world and different
cultures.  When I first get my class roster I scan it for names that might
be an exchange student. I try to figure out where they are from and learn at
least the phrase "Welcome to my class", or "Good Evening" in their native
tongue. The shock value is wonderful when their eyes light up I know that I
have their attention. Even if I butcher the phrase they appreciate the
attempt. One of my favorite moments in teaching came when a student's family
came from Japan to visit their daughter. She introduced me to her mother and
father. I said "Coniciwah (Good Afternoon), the father replied " Pardner" (I
live and teach in Central Texas).  He had practiced "Howdy Pardner" for
weeks because he knew I would say something in Japanese, except he forgot
the "Howdy" part. We laughed so hard I thought everyone was going to wet
their pants. When he left he had a ten-gallon hat and silver toed cowboy
boots.

The universal language I think is a smile. If you can get a laugh at the
same time you have communicated. The rest comes easy.

As a great American writer once said:

In Paris, they simple stared when I spoke to them in French; I never did
succeed in making those idiots understand their own language.

                                                    -- Mark Twain

I don't think Mark Twain had an ounce of Swede in him.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows


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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 23:21:35 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Salvaged Solder
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:37:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep5.73749.0>
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Usually fisherman (or is it fisherpersons now?) that make their own sinkers
can melt the solder, came, etc., and can use the bits and pieces. You can
ask the local sport fishing clubs. You might also ask the sporting goods
store if any of their customers use muzzle loading rifles.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 23:35:17 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Lead and Septic Systems
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:46:35 -0500
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Just because the lead goes into the septic systems doesn't mean it doesn't
do harm. The effluent that seeps into the ground can go directly to the
aquifer and contaminate the ground water. If you live in an area where you
have a well I would avoid this practice. Can we hear from an expert on this
subject (even though it may be a crappy subject for the week it is
important)? On second thought would anyone admit to being an expert?


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 23:38:41 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio #  49 Becky Wickline
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:19:53 -0500
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I have been lurking awhile but now I think I'll get up the nerve to do a
bio.

I'd hate to see anyone fed to the canines..  I'd offer protection from my 55
lb sheltie-spitz called Tadpole, but with a name like that he's not exactly
ferocious.  Protects my feet mostly.

Well here goes.  I am Becky Wickline and live in Richmond Va.  Besides
Tadpole I have a husband of 31 years, two grown daughters (one in the Coast
Guard and the other the mother of my grandson). I also inherited a cat when
my daughter left for the Coast Guard.

In real life I teach high school Spanish and try to set a good example for
my students.  I also have a split personality.  In my off hours I lead a
troupe of Belly Dancers that perform at nursing homes and for benefits in
the area.

That always gets my students' attention when it gets mentioned in class.  We
have a lot of fun and feel like we do a service for the community.  We all
dance free of charge  and usually dance twice a month.

I got interested in stained glass about 10 years ago by accident.  I have
sewn, crocheted, dribbled in all sorts of crafts and one day I say a stained
glass demonstration on TV.  A little ten minute thing and I thought that was
interesting.  Found classes at the county recreation division and it got
into my blood and that was it.

I have made all sorts of things.  I go to the local stained glass store and
look at the new books and find something I haven't tried before and I'm off.

After a hard day of handling 100 teenager the sound and feel of breaking
glass really relieves tension plus I can be guaranteed of seeing a finished
product. Can't do that with teaching.

My favorite things I've made are a mosaic ship table (made the table too). A
set of iris panels for my downstairs window and a 3x3 panel of our school
mascot that I contributed to the school.

My next project is to replace the bevels and came in my 3/4 oval front door
with my own design. I don't participate in craft shows because I never seem
to have enough products finished.  My daughters come and liberate a lot of
my work and take it
home.  My mother is just as bad.  If I ever get caught up on what my family
wants then maybe I'll do craft shows.  I have done a few profitable pieces
but I'm not giving up my day job.  Even designed belly dancer sun catchers
to combine both my passions.

I guess I've bored everyone enough.  Thanks for the opportunity to introduce
my self.

Becky





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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 00:08:52 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio #50 Tracy Reitman
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:31:43 -0500
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Okay, Lurker Bio time I guess=85.we wouldn't want Patrick's leg becoming =
an
afternoon snack for one named Toby!!  Let's see=85where to start=85okay, =
I'm 37,
a desktop publisher who has (and has had) a wide variety of hobbies.

I'm from Minnesota, that's what I tell people when they ask, but I've
actually only spent about half my life there.  I started out in Dallas,
Texas, then Oklahoma City, then to Minnesota (which is where my family is
from).  From there I left once to live in Las Vegas (didn't last a year
there though), returned to Minnesota, then off again to San Francisco for=
 8
years, then back again to Minnesota (but I find
I get quite homesick for San Francisco at times).

As one can imagine, I adapt pretty easily to new situations.  I'm also no=
t
afraid of trying new things.  My main occupation started out being a lega=
l
secretary/assistant but when computers came out I was hooked, and when th=
e
Internet started I was in heaven.  I've
written a few web pages, teaching myself HTML from looking at how other w=
eb
pages were written, and started dabbling in desktop publishing, which is
what I do now full time (although breaking off from working for lawyers w=
as
similar to trying to shoo bees away from you out in the garden in late
summer).

My lack of fear of trying new things allowed me to do all sorts of things=
 --
in San Francisco, I kept busy with things like freelance photography, sta=
ge
managing Shakespeare, learning to play pool (and managing to win a few
trophies in tournaments while I was at it), doing freelance word processi=
ng,
and being a pet food sales rep (which is where I came across my pal, Jack=
,
who is an 8 year-old
part Husky and constant companion -- I should say constant "vocal" compan=
ion
as his Husky blood makes him quite the talker).

I was exposed to stained glass when one of my folks, Sue (or Oddjob as sh=
e's
known here in Bungi-land), started doing it when they were living in Tucs=
on,
Arizona.  Right away I wanted to know how it was done and I remember her
showing me some of the basics  when I would visit them.  After that I
started to notice
it more and more in San Francisco and I remember seeing some awesome piec=
es
around the City.  My folks and I moved back to Minnesota at around the sa=
me
time (about 4 years ago) and then I was able to see her projects being ma=
de.
Finally, about a year ago I decided it was time, I had to learn for mysel=
f
how to do it and asked if she would help me -- she had been perfecting he=
r
skill over the last several years and was creating some really outstandin=
g
pieces.  I
also felt it was something important enough to keep in the family=85kind =
of
like a carpenter teaching his son, who teaches his son, etc.  I feel pret=
ty
fortunate that I have her as my teacher.

Lampshades seem to be my main interest, which explains why I haven't
ventured into leaded pieces yet.  But, living where we do, I figure this
winter there will be plenty of time for that -- winters in Minnesota are
rather long (about 6 months) and people around here usually have a list o=
f
"winter projects" a mile long.  And since I won't be able to spend time i=
n
the flower gardens I have going (which is another hobby that pretty well
consumes a lot of my free time) I
may as well get my feet wet in that area.  (Plus I just bought my first
house and there are a few windows that need dressing up.)

A huge interest of mine is learning about the Anishinaabe (Native
Americans), ranging from their lives, to religion to even learning how to
speak Ojibwe (one of the tribes from this part of the country) and I find
I'm designing quite a bit of southwestern style pieces (okay, I'll admit,=
 I
think only one piece so far "isn't" southwestern-style).  I find the desi=
gn
part the trickiest for me.  I spend I don't know how much time sketching
different designs then go over some of them
with Sue to see what will work and why, and what won't work and why.
Another problem I have is to finally decide what colors of glass I want t=
o
use for a piece -- there's just too many possibilities!!!  It's great!
(Unless you're with me in the glass shop where I can spend literally hour=
s
deciding what I want to use!)

Well, I hope this kept Toby off of Patrick for at least another week or s=
o.
I've enjoyed reading (and learning from) all the posts on Bungi and also
meeting some of the people out there (at least in cyber-space).  That's
about it for me everyone=85I'm now going to see if I can find where I lef=
t my
lurker seat and resume my post there!


Tracy Reitman

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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 00:23:54 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Salvaged Solder
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:42:53 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809050642.XAA00138@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

>Hmmmm, as I see it now adays...the forward push to non lead pelts in shot
is a good thing..... I do eat the geese and other birds that I shoot.

And leads for fishing line weights may not be the same mixture of alloy.

Even dumps not WANT the waste we have in the glass industry.

Cindy



>Usually fisherman (or is it fisherpersons now?) that make their own sinkers
>can melt the solder, came, etc., and can use the bits and pieces. You can
>ask the local sport fishing clubs. You might also ask the sporting goods
>store if any of their customers use muzzle loading rifles.
>
>Patrick
>Roses and Rainbows
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 01:08:20 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Pattern Website
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 00:36:09 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.17369.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Alot of you probably know about this site, but I just ran across it last
night. It's a pattern website and they have tons of them!

http://members.aol.com/patternsyw/

See ya, I'm off to read the bios! Thanks Patrick!

Pam *sm*


--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 08:18:20 1998
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Subject: Re: Lead and Septic Systems
Summary: Authenticated sender is <a1a84211@mail.bctel.ca>
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 07:53:34 +0000
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> Just because the lead goes into the septic systems doesn't mean it doesn't
> do harm. The effluent that seeps into the ground can go directly to the
> aquifer and contaminate the ground water. If you live in an area where you
> have a well I would avoid this practice. Can we hear from an expert on this
> subject (even though it may be a crappy subject for the week it is
> important)? On second thought would anyone admit to being an expert?

I certainly would NOT admit to being any kind of expert.  I can only 
tell you how I handle this.

We have both a well and a septic system (very far apart).  I'm very 
careful to use paper towel to wipe as many of the little solder bits 
as I can off the piece before washing it.   I collect all the solder 
and save it for reuse.  This wiping also removes most of the flux 
that is left after soldering.  I don't know if the acid in flux is 
bad for septic systems, but I suspect it doesn't HELP them.

Shiela

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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 08:53:49 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: (long) Images and copyright issues, was RE: squirrel pattern needed
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:19:54 EDT
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In a message dated 9/4/98 10:00:31 AM, b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk wrote:

>Interesting about how you mention that you might copy part of a
>commercial design and use it for yor own personal use only. Is this a
>general accepted code amongst professionals that they do not mind
>amateurs copying their work within reason. Is there any legal tangle
>involved here. 
>
>Brandon

"Intellectual property" is a very thorny area right now in the graphic design
industry in particular (she said from her perch as a sometime desktop
publisher).

Until the last 10 years or so, the conventional wisdom was "once you change
it, it's yours." And of course even the recognized "greats" of art (and music
too) have copied and reinterpreted each other's work for centuries.

The advent of computerized image manipulation has made it so easy to grab an
image from somewhere (scan it, grab it from the web, whatever) and plunk it
down into your own project (saving you the trouble of actually drawing or
otherwise constructing the copy) that the industry is trying to set
guidelines/standards defining copyright infringement on artists' "intellectual
property" in an effort to answer the questions: *Just how much* do you have to
change it before it's yours? 10%? 25%? And who decides "how much" it's been
changed?

Grabbing a stock image out of a book or off the net and sticking it as-is into
a piece of work for a client is recognized as "theft of intellectual
property." Grabbing a couple of stock images and combining them via
"Photoshop" - say, taking the people from one photo and superimposing them on
another of a tropical sunset - may or may not be (and the stock-photo people
would most likely say it is; better to pay the few bucks for the use of the
pictures). Using a stock image as a "starting idea" for a project using
"Fractal Design Painter" or some other such painting/drawing program and
producing a piece that looks as if it might have been done by an Abstract
Impressionist almost certainly isn't.

(Similar things are happening in the music biz. Remember the lawsuit against
George Harrison by the folks who claimed that the tune of "My Sweet Lord" was
a ripoff of their early 60's hit "He's So Fine"? I think they won too - at
least the first round.)

So where does that leave most of us who live in that great gray area of "more
artisan than artist," who "can't draw" or aren't very good at seeing original
things in our heads but are pretty good at adapting something we saw in a
picture somewhere?

If you're strictly a hobbyist and never sell anything you make, you're pretty
much safe from the legal sharks. But (for instance) if you want to make a copy
of something you saw on someone's web site, the "right thing to do" is
*always* to contact the artist and ask if it's OK. They might say no, but who
knows? they might sell you a copy of the pattern for a couple of bucks! And
what's a couple of bucks in the cost of making a glass piece? The "good will
in the community" is worth it!

When you start selling things, you need to keep your ducks in a row and make
sure you've bought the pattern or otherwise got permission from the owner of
the design. And the higher your profile, the more you've got to distinguish
between your own original work and copies/reproductions/adaptations of
existing designs.

Beyond the legal liability, it's a matter of your own integrity as an
artist/artisan to acknowledge your sources and say that something is a
reproduction of a Tiffany or a Frank Lloyd Wright or a Mackintosh or a Marcel
Duchamps (my pipe dream is to do his famous "Nude Descending a Staircase #2"
in glass, just for the hell of it) if it's a true copy, or "based on" if it's
a modification of an existing design (even if you changed it a fair bit; this
is the real gray area), or "in the style of" if you made it up to go with a
client's decor but it looks like something one of those artists might have
done.

As far as using published patterns, many publishers include the rules for
"fair use" in their books. After all, these folks publish their stuff to be
used, and they know that some folks are going to sell what they make [duh!].
Dover says: "You may use the designs and illustrations for graphics and crafts
applications, free and without special permission, provided that you use no
more than four [number varies, sometimes it's 10] in the same publication or
project."

Ultimately it all boils down to: Play fair, ask for permission, give credit
where credit is due, and keep in mind how you'd feel if somebody ripped off
*your* designs that you're trying to make a living from!


Sparks
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  squirrel pattern needed
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:20:00 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep5.15200.0>
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In a message dated 9/3/98 5:34:10 PM, b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk wrote:

>A friend has asked me to do a suncatcher but it must have a
>squirrel or squirrels in it. I have dogs ,cats,birds.people everything
>except a squirrel.

There's one on page 51 of "Wild animals Stained Glass Pattern Book" by Connie
Clough Eaton, Dover Publications (1996) ISBN#0-486-29337-8 ($6.95). I picked
up the book at the local Borders Books.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 10:58:00 1998
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Cindy Pesonen <cpesonen@bcinternet.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Salvaged Solder
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:23:04 -0700 (PDT)
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I have made a practice to never throw lead or solder residue into the
garbage.  I keep an old coffee can readily available to use for lead
waste.  I once gave a can of lead scraps to an avid fisherman and later
had a guilty feeling because he was making sinkers to use in fishing in
the ocean.  After that, I have tried to maintain strict rules about
disposing of lead scraps.  I recently came across an electric solder pot
and plan to use it to melt solder to do lead castings.  Interestingly, in
the twelve plus years I have been doing stained glass, I have never quite
filled another coffee can.

I plan, however, if I do fill one that I won't use to wait until our
sanitation department declares hazardous waste time and will accept such
things as lead scraps to be disposed of in an acceptable manner.  I also
stress to my students to be responsible about disposing of lead scraps.  I
strongly believe we have an obligation to keep mother earth as prime and
pristine as possible.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 11:54:32 1998
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From: robert crane <robertcrane@thezone.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Glass for bevelling
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 15:58:41 -0230
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Could  some person enlighten me as to the type and availability of glass
for bevelling. I have attempted to bevel 1/4 house hold glass but it
seems very hard. I seem to recall that there is a glass with high lead
content which makes the glass softer. Is This correct? Anyone know the
name of it and perhaps a source? Thanks in anticipation.

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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 13:23:00 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, robertcrane@thezone.net
Subject: Glass for bevelling
Date: Sat,  5 Sep 1998 16:03:05, -0500
Message-ID: <199809052003.QAA07494@mime3.prodigy.com>
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>>Could  some person enlighten me as to the type and availability of 
glass
for bevelling. I have attempted to bevel 1/4 house hold glass but it
seems very hard. I seem to recall that there is a glass with high 
lead
content which makes the glass softer. Is This correct? Anyone know 
the
name of it and perhaps a source? Thanks in anticipation.<<

Right you are. Common 1/4" glass is rather hard but usable for 
beveling. Optiwhite Clear (in 5 and 6mm) lacks the greenish tint of 
common glass, is much softer, four times more expensive and is 
available at Hollander Glass outlets.

I do not know of a soft glass that matches the green tint found in 
common flint glass that most stock bevels are made from. Most 
bevelers just bite the bullet and bevel the common hard glass. At 
least it does not scratch easily which is a benefit to the customer 
if not the beveler.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 17:04:47 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Klmxklm@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Hexacon soldering irons
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 19:21:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep5.152120.0>
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Klmxklm@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi:
> I have 2 questions: First, can anyone tell me the merits (or drawbacks) of
> using the "pistol" or "hatchet" handle type of soldering iron, such as
> Hexacon?  Secondly, where can one purchase Hexacon irons retail?  Thanks!
> "Mike" Mikolajczak
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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as i understand it, the shape of the iron allows your hand to stay at a
more comfortable angle. instead of the turned in angle you normally have
to use. i've never used it though, could'nt tell you how well it
works...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 18:10:10 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Lead and Septic Systems
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:43:34 -0700 (PDT)
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Not an expert:)

Having a "healthy" septic system is the key to proper maintenance of waste.
Certian "healthy" microorganisms in mill effluent do flourish when properly
maintained and monitored.

When digging for a well and septic one digs the well on the higher ground
and away from the septic as far as possible.
Unfortunately  when newcomers enter the picture it is up to them to find out
where their neighbours septic is. And not to be down stream if possible.

What is truely scary is when neighbourhoods have been built on old dump
sites, such as my brother's home. Who knows what is in there, seeping nasty
stuff into the ground.

Cindy
 
>Just because the lead goes into the septic systems doesn't mean it doesn't
>do harm. The effluent that seeps into the ground can go directly to the
>aquifer and contaminate the ground water. If you live in an area where you
>have a well I would avoid this practice. Can we hear from an expert on this
>subject (even though it may be a crappy subject for the week it is
>important)? On second thought would anyone admit to being an expert?
>
>
>Patrick
>Roses and Rainbows
>
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 19:41:24 1998
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Pat Kelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Lead and Septic Systems
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:52:59 -0700
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References: <<1998Sep5.74635.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
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Pat Kelly wrote:
> 
> Just because the lead goes into the septic systems doesn't mean it doesn't
> do harm. The effluent that seeps into the ground can go directly to the
> aquifer and contaminate the ground water. If you live in an area where you
> have a well I would avoid this practice. Can we hear from an expert on this
> subject (even though it may be a crappy subject for the week it is
> important)? On second thought would anyone admit to being an expert?
> 
> Patrick
> Roses and Rainbows
> 
> ----
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oh geez...we are building our new house and I am SO happy to have my own
studio AND land for my horses...my pasture will probably be in close
proximity to the septic tank...I am glad to know this now BEFORE I
poison my big friends BUT this sure throws a glitch in
things.......living in Idaho there sure are a lot of fisherpeople and
hunters so maybe I will check out the feasability factor of
recycling....I will ask my  builder too...his wife is also a stained
glass person....
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Subject:    German Shepard
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:44:51 -0400
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Hi Folks;

I hope everyone is having a safe and Happy Labor Day weekend.
Could someone tell me where I can find, a pattern for a German Shepard.

Thank you in advance,
Tim Byrnes
QM Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 07:01:59 1998
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Subject: Patterns, unicorn & prayng hands
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:29:06 EDT
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Hi,
    I am fairly new to bungi,and have just been lurking and learning, but saw
your request for a praying hands pattern.  There is one in  Judy Miller's book
called A Stained Glass Christmas.
     As for the Unicorn. there is a pattern for a unicorn's head in a book
called "the Perfect Gift, bu Janet Schrader...CKE publications.

Marilyn
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 09:03:14 1998
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> 
> I hope everyone is having a safe and Happy Labor Day weekend.
> Could someone tell me where I can find, a pattern for a German Shepard.
> 
> Thank you in advance,
> Tim Byrnes

Try Dragonfly software.  I'm sure they have one.  Sorry, don't 
remember their www address for sure, but I think its 
www.dragonfly.com (I hope)

Shiela

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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 11:04:37 1998
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X-Path: cybersol.com!TWLARRY
From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry)
To: BOB DUCHESNEAU <YWAH36A@prodigy.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 13:17:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep7.91735.0>
References: <<199809030738.DAA11606@mime3.prodigy.com>>
Organization: Trade Winds
Precedence: bulk

BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote:
> 
> >>My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the sink do to
> the tiny
> bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He works at a
> company
> where they do lots of soldering.  The company found years ago that
> those
> tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few years.  I make
> a lot
> of small foiled items and quite often there are tiny bits of solder
> that I
> don't see until clean up.  I usually scrub my pieces in a large
> bucket and
> then pour the water outside.  Have any of you experienced problems
> with
> solder clogging drains?   I really get tired of filling up those
> buckets!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cheryl<<
> 
> Now this is an interesting problem. Some thoughts:
> 
> 1. I doubt you are going to clog up your plumbing but you can check
> the trap that sinks have by code. Pull the trap and see what you have
> been trapping.
> 
> 2. Is it nice to put solder balls down your sink? Probably not and
> likely not legal if the fine print is read on the municipal code.
> 
> 3. I would rather you used the sink after removing solder balls from
> your work. Using a bucket and pouring it outside leads to lead
> contamination that I would guess is neither safe or legal. Hope you
> do not pour the waste water in the garden or an area where children
> play now or in the next XXX years.
> 
> 4. I would like to know what others think on this subject. Is there a
> balance between what is practical and safety? I for one would like to
> know.
> Hi Bob,
I don't know what would be considered safe but I just found out I have
extensive lead poisining.  I can tell you firt hand it is not pleasant
to go through and I will be in treatment for months to get rid of it.

It was also hard to detect.  I have spent thousands of dollars on tests
to find out what was causing my problems.  Finally when doctors were
still scratching their heads I had a hair analysis that read 2.70.  The
normal accaptable high is .8.  It also indicated high cadium and arsnic.
I had heavy metal tests but found they do not indicate high levels of
toxins built up in the tissue.

I worked in a can-making plant for 27yrs.  We used lead solders in the
seams till the goverment stopped it in the late 70s.  We were never
cautioned to use masks or anything like that.  I often cleaned exaust
hoods that were over the solder pots. The dust would fly all over the
place because we would use air hoses to get into the stacks.

I have lost much of the motor control to my legs,  I bloat very easy.  I
get unexplained rashes like hives.  I get tremors when on my feet too
long and my hair was falling out in gobs.

I am in Chelation Therapy.  I go weekly for and I. V. that lasts 3 1/2
to 4 hours.  I drive 1 1/2 hours to get to the location for treatment. 
I am going to request that the Company pay for it but our plant is
closed and I am on early retirement so I don't know what kind of a fight
I will have on my hands.  The treatments are $90.00 per.  I will
probably need at least 15 treatments.  My hands are black and blue from
the needles as my veins roll.  There is danger to the kidneys as they
have to carry the poison out of the system.  I have to drink only
distilled water for the duration.  I still have one cup of coffee each
morning because caffeene withdrawal gives you severe headaches.  I have
learned to like the water and don't miss the diet Pepsi I lived on
before that. That was after the full pot of Coffee. I have hopes of
regaining my legs.  I have been able to cut other medications already.
I have had 6 treatments so far.

Better day are comming,
TWLARRY

> Bob
> 
> ____
> Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
> Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 12:32:05 1998
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From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: pattern search
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:10:02 -0500
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Sounds like you need to do what I'm fixin to... I signed up for a basic
drawing course at the local college... Was pretty reasonabley priced and
will be well worth it... I do great at geometric designs with ruler,compass
etc but freehand I stink....Fortunately 99% of my business up till now has
been with geometric type panels...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

-----Original Message-----
From: WhispyBlu@aol.com <WhispyBlu@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 4:37 PM
Subject: pattern search


>I have been to the Pattern Search on Stained Glass Biz, as well as many
other
>web sites, to no avail.  Cannot anyone direct me to a pattern for praying
>hands?  Also, a pattern for a unicorn?
>
>Many Thanks!!!!!
>
>Lu Ann <Whispy Blu@aol.com>
>----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 12:53:34 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, TWLARRY@cybersol.com
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Mon,  7 Sep 1998 14:48:30, -0500
Message-ID: <199809071848.OAA07464@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>> Hi Bob,
I don't know what would be considered safe but I just found out I 
have
extensive lead poisining.  I can tell you firt hand it is not 
pleasant
to go through and I will be in treatment for months to get rid of it.


It was also hard to detect.  I have spent thousands of dollars on 
tests
to find out what was causing my problems.  Finally when doctors were
still scratching their heads I had a hair analysis that read 2.70.  
The
normal accaptable high is .8.  It also indicated high cadium and 
arsnic.
I had heavy metal tests but found they do not indicate high levels 
of
toxins built up in the tissue.

I worked in a can-making plant for 27yrs.  We used lead solders in 
the
seams till the goverment stopped it in the late 70s.  We were never
cautioned to use masks or anything like that.  I often cleaned 
exaust
hoods that were over the solder pots. The dust would fly all over 
the
place because we would use air hoses to get into the stacks.

I have lost much of the motor control to my legs,  I bloat very easy. 
 I
get unexplained rashes like hives.  I get tremors when on my feet 
too
long and my hair was falling out in gobs.<<

I am sorry to hear of your problems with heavy metal poisoning. Do 
you do stained glass and work with lead and solder in foil or came 
work? 

>>I am in Chelation Therapy.  I go weekly for and I. V. that lasts 3 
1/2
to 4 hours.  I drive 1 1/2 hours to get to the location for treatment.
 
I am going to request that the Company pay for it but our plant is
closed and I am on early retirement so I don't know what kind of a 
fight
I will have on my hands.  The treatments are $90.00 per.  I will
probably need at least 15 treatments.  My hands are black and blue 
from
the needles as my veins roll.  There is danger to the kidneys as 
they
have to carry the poison out of the system. <<

Allowing workers to blow out solder pot exhaust hoods with compressed 
air and no respiratory and other protection is criminal  on the part 
of management in my book. Get a lawyer and get their a**. Talk to 
OSHA too. Scream until you are satisfied. This is a great country and 
we have no need to kill our workers off. Make a big enough stink and 
your case may save others from similar problems.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 13:02:10 1998
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From: "Sandra I Gustafson" <SUZIEQ1@prodigy.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Pattern request.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:50:18 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep7.95018.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

This my first on and have enjoyed all of the questions and answers.  I am
learning to work with glass and all of your tips have been greatly
appreciated.

 I have a pattern request for a mans open hands facing upwards.  I hope
someone can help me.
Thanks in advance.

Sandy
Remember: Be kind to everyone, because, everyone is having a hard time.

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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 14:09:42 1998
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From: LuvArtGlas@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: unicorns
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:34:35 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep7.203435.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sectrum has a unicorn in their free pattern section...
Alot could be done with it.. The beast is all reared up 
on its massive hind legs:)

Suzan 
LuvArtGlas@aol.com
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 17:37:10 1998
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From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Glass for bevelling
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 19:49:31 EDT
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Sorry that I didn't get to your question earlier,I have been out of town for a
few weeks. The new glass that is manufactuered today is much harder to bevel
but it is just one of those things that you live with, but on the other hand
if you can find some old glass that has a yellow cast to it that is an
excellent glass for beveling, if you know anyone that refurbishes old houses
they usually just throw it away, or a window company that sells replacement
windows is another good source for this glass.It bevels fast and polishes like
butter. I personally have a small stock pile that I keep just for repair jobs
so that I can match the glass as closely as possible. I am also trying to
build up enough stock so that I can build an entry way for myself out of this
old glass, in my opinion it casts a better prism than the new
glass.Beveler4(Stan)
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 17:57:59 1998
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From: Carolyn Duncan <chick@cyberg8t.com>
To: newsgroup <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: hexacon soldering irons
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:52:30 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep7.95230.0>
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Mike  I have a 100w hatchet hexacon iron and love it.  I works very
well soldering the inside of lamps, boxes, candle holders and other
dimentional odjects.  I also find it well balanced for use in copper
foil.  The dreaded beads seem to be smoother. Carolyn
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 18:09:46 1998
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Please take me off of the list for now, Thank you
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 18:44:37 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: "Nordhoff, Larry" <TWLARRY@cybersol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:57:16 -0400
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References: <<1998Sep7.91735.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Larry,

Get yourself a really good lawyer that specializes in Industrial 
Injuries.

I was hurt in an industrial accident where I fell through a ceiling,
straight down 14 feet to a concrete garage floor.  I broke my back,
crushed both heels and shattered my right ankle, also lost 2 1/2 inches
of height instantly.  That was almost 10 years ago.  I wish I had taken
the above advice.  To make a long story short, go after that
@#$$@%@%$*(^(*)(*, can company with the top guns. 

If you are soldering stained glass, make sure you use only lead free
solder, and don't do any lead work.  Their lawyers would love to get
ahold of that, claiming that was the cause of your problems.  Once your
atty. has filed suit, be prepared to be very careful, the adjusters
would love to get video tapes of you doing stuff you should not be
doing.  Anything will do, cutting the grass, loading packages, etc.  And
don't think they won't.

Make sure any settlement offer will let you still get Social Security
Disability benefits, there is a formula that the government uses.

Just a few tips to the wise, I wish I'd had.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/




Nordhoff, Larry wrote:


> I don't know what would be considered safe but I just found out I have
> extensive lead poisining.  I can tell you firt hand it is not pleasant
> to go through and I will be in treatment for months to get rid of it.
> 
> It was also hard to detect.  I have spent thousands of dollars on tests
> to find out what was causing my problems.  Finally when doctors were
> still scratching their heads I had a hair analysis that read 2.70.  The
> normal accaptable high is .8.  It also indicated high cadium and arsnic.
> I had heavy metal tests but found they do not indicate high levels of
> toxins built up in the tissue.
> 
> I worked in a can-making plant for 27yrs.  We used lead solders in the
> seams till the goverment stopped it in the late 70s.  We were never
> cautioned to use masks or anything like that.  I often cleaned exaust
> hoods that were over the solder pots. The dust would fly all over the
> place because we would use air hoses to get into the stacks.
> 
> I have lost much of the motor control to my legs,  I bloat very easy.  I
> get unexplained rashes like hives.  I get tremors when on my feet too
> long and my hair was falling out in gobs.
> 
> I am in Chelation Therapy.  I go weekly for and I. V. that lasts 3 1/2
> to 4 hours.  I drive 1 1/2 hours to get to the location for treatment.
> I am going to request that the Company pay for it but our plant is
> closed and I am on early retirement so I don't know what kind of a fight
> I will have on my hands.  The treatments are $90.00 per.  I will
> probably need at least 15 treatments.  My hands are black and blue from
> the needles as my veins roll.  There is danger to the kidneys as they
> have to carry the poison out of the system.  I have to drink only
> distilled water for the duration.  I still have one cup of coffee each
> morning because caffeene withdrawal gives you severe headaches.  I have
> learned to like the water and don't miss the diet Pepsi I lived on
> before that. That was after the full pot of Coffee. I have hopes of
> regaining my legs.  I have been able to cut other medications already.
> I have had 6 treatments so far.
> 
> Better day are comming,
> TWLARRY
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 07:17:15 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Carolyn Duncan <chick@cyberg8t.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: hexacon soldering irons
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 09:26:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep8.52614.0>
References: <<1998Sep7.95230.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Carolyn Duncan wrote:
> 
> Mike  I have a 100w hatchet hexacon iron and love it.  I works very
> well soldering the inside of lamps, boxes, candle holders and other
> dimentional odjects.  I also find it well balanced for use in copper
> foil.  The dreaded beads seem to be smoother. Carolyn
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


how heavy is it? and about how much did you pay?

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 08:19:20 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: best tool for tapering lead came?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:48:29 -0700
Message-ID: <199809081448.HAA14773@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all.

I want to use 3/4" lead came as silhouette for some grasses in a lead came
piece I'm doing.  My plan is to taper the came from 3/4" at the base of the
came down to a narrow tip at the top of the grass blade.  

What tool would work best for this, and should I trim it down before or
after I've got the glass inserted? 

Also what tool works best for shaving the edges of lead H came around window
borders during installation?

Thanks in advance
Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.bungi.com/glass/igga/synergy

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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 09:20:25 1998
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Subject: gallery
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:27:39 -0500
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Kaye,
Finally got my films back and have send a copy to the gallery if you
want to take a look.
Nelda

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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 09:46:55 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Salvaged Solder
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:50:53 -0400
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Cindy said:

And leads for fishing line weights may not be the same mixture of alloy.

fishermen don't care what alloy is used for sinkers as long as it does =
not have so much tin that it melts at a higher temp and clogs up their =
melting pots. Bulk lead is cheap, and pure lead ingots of 1 pound each =
can be had for 50 cents to a dollar each. So if you find fishermen that =
will take the lead you will have to give it away.

One disposal you could use is your local auto repairman. They toss wheel =
weights in a bucket for recycling. fishermen often get wheel weight from =
garages.

Shooter on the other had don't want pure lead and are very particular =
about the mixture of lead to tin and antimony. Those who mold theri own =
bullets even use hardness testers to ensure the best possible bullet for =
their guns.=20

I save my scrap soulder and use it by daubing, picking it up with a hot =
iron and solder (paint) with it when I have areas where I want a lot of =
soulder.

Linda
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 12:51:32 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: slumping w/ greenware
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:11:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep8.111133.0>
Precedence: bulk

	A friend that owns a ceramic shop is going to let me play with a
piece of greenware.  I know someone out there mentioned a while back,
using greenware for molds.  My friend said he'll fire the piece once
(bisque?) and put in three small air holes.  What else do I need to know
about slumping this way?  Do I just prime the mold (a plate mold) and go
from there?  I'm excited about trying this because if it works well, I
can get all kinds of greenware from him for molds and they are certainly
much cheaper than buying the slumping molds.

Thanks,
Jerri

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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 13:54:24 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:27:56 +0000
Message-ID: <199809082255.SAA02308@vger.vgernet.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi, everyone. I was concerned about the ongoing chat about lead 
poisoning and steps people were taking to combat it, so I spoke with 
Monona Rossol about what was being said here. She took a look at what 
been being said and had the following comments that I'm passing 
along. For what it's worth (a lot, I think), Monona is the Studio 
Safety person for the Guild, besides being a specialist in arts & 
crafts hygiene.

Her comments follow the >>quoted sections:


>>> Hi Bob,
> I don't know what would be considered safe but I just found out I 
> have extensive lead poisining.  I can tell you firt hand it is not 
> pleasant to go through and I will be in treatment for months to get
> rid of it. <

If it is from years in the canning factory, he will not get rid of it.  He 
may lesson symptoms, but he is carrying it in his bones.  We do turn over 
bone lead and calcium, but it is over a period of years.

And if he has had lead poisoning all these years, removing the lead is still 
going to leave him with the serious neurological deficits he describes.  The 
important question is: *when* did his overt symptoms begin?  If they did not 
begin while he was working with lead, then there is something else in 
addition to lead going on here.


> It was also hard to detect.  I have spent thousands of dollars on 
> tests to find out what was causing my problems. <


Dumb doctors.  A work history in a canning factory would have indicated lead 
was the first thing to check out.  


> Finally when doctors were still scratching their heads I had a hair 
> analysis that read 2.70.  The normal acceptable high is .8.  It also 
> indicated high cadium and arsnic. <


This is not diagnostic of lead poisoning.  If a lab in New York did hair 
tests for diagnosis of lead poisoning, they would be fined $10,000.  There are 
many reasons why hair analysis can turn up high lead without their being an 
excessive body burden.  


> I had heavy metal tests but found they do not indicate high levels of
> toxins built up in the tissue. <

There are two possibilities here:

1) he doesn't have lead poisoning; or

2)  the wrong type of doctor ordered the wrong test.  He probably would 
have an almost normal blood lead test.  What he needs instead is a lead 
chelate challenge test which flushes some lead out of the bones to give an 
indication of the body burden he's carrying.


> I worked in a can-making plant for 27yrs.  We used lead solders in 
> the seams till the goverment stopped it in the late 70s.  We were never
> cautioned to use masks or anything like that.  I often cleaned 
> exaust hoods that were over the solder pots. The dust would fly all over 
> the place because we would use air hoses to get into the stacks. <


If this means that his exposure to lead stopped almost 20 years ago, the 
symptoms should be better now.   Age could be exacerbating pre-existing 
lead-induced damage to his nervous system. Another theory is that the canning 
factory switched to solders containing cadmium.  That was common at first.


> I have lost much of the motor control to my legs,  I bloat very easy. 
> I get unexplained rashes like hives.  I get tremors when on my feet 
> too long and my hair was falling out in gobs.<<

Nah.  Something else is going on here.  Some smart person needs to walk 
through this guy's life looking at all his past and present activities, 
hobbies, gardening, lawn care, food sources, alcohol consumption, ceramic 
dishes, heating system for his house, lead paint on the walls, water sources, 
medications he takes--including recreational, herbs and natural supplements 
(lord help him), and is his wife trying to poison him.

Much of this is what a good medical history should reveal. 

Interestingly, the symptoms read more like arsenic or thallium.  Or a 
combination of chemicals.


> I am sorry to hear of your problems with heavy metal poisoning. Do 
> you do stained glass and work with lead and solder in foil or came 
> work?  <

How come he didn't answer this question?  If he is--and in his house--this 
could explain the whole thing.


>>I am in Chelation Therapy.<

If he is in chelation therapy without finding a body burden on traditional 
tests, he may be doing alternative treatment therapy.  This is very unwise 
from both a health and a legal perspective.  Chelation puts a serious stress 
on the body and if it is done alternatively without accepted diagnostic 
reasons, he has thrown away any hope of getting any kind of compensation from 
any employer.

>  I go weekly for and I. V. that lasts 3 
> 1/2 to 4 hours.  I drive 1 1/2 hours to get to the location for treatment.
> I am going to request that the Company pay for it but our plant is
> closed and I am on early retirement so I don't know what kind of a 
> fightI will have on my hands.  The treatments are $90.00 per.  I will
> probably need at least 15 treatments.  My hands are black and blue 
> from the needles as my veins roll.  There is danger to the kidneys as 
> they have to carry the poison out of the system. <<

If I ask these questions, you can be sure that lawyers for the canning 
company sure will.  And if this guy is getting alternative medicine 
chelation, he will collect nuttin'. 

> Allowing workers to blow out solder pot exhaust hoods with compressed 
> air and no respiratory and other protection is criminal  on the part 
> of management in my book. Get a lawyer and get their a**. Talk to 
> OSHA too. Scream until you are satisfied. This is a great country and 
> we have no need to kill our workers off. Make a big enough stink and 
> your case may save others from similar problems.  Bob <

Before screaming, find out for sure what the problem is.

Monona


Hope this is helpful.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page     http://www.igga.org/
Membership    http://www.igga.org/benefits.htm
Members' work http://igga.org/links.htm
Sources Guide http://www.igga.org/guide.htm
Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 15:45:19 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: best tool for tapering lead came?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:00:00 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.000.0>
References: <<199809081448.HAA14773@oceanus.island.net>>
Precedence: bulk

OK, Carol.

Here are my suggestions.

In message <199809081448.HAA14773@oceanus.island.net>, Carol Swann
<seaspray@mail.island.net> writes
>Hi all.
>
>I want to use 3/4" lead came as silhouette for some grasses in a lead came
>piece I'm doing.  My plan is to taper the came from 3/4" at the base of the
>came down to a narrow tip at the top of the grass blade.  
>
>What tool would work best for this, and should I trim it down before or
>after I've got the glass inserted? 
>
I' shave the came after cementing.  This will give the came support and
make the whole more rigid for the use of the lead knife (at least the
one that is like a straight paint scraper)  A sharp lead knife can shave
the lead with great control.

>Also what tool works best for shaving the edges of lead H came around window
>borders during installation?
>
I use the same paint scraper sharpened and turned into a lead knife.
I just did one tonight - the lead came off in pretty curls because of
its sharpness.  This, of course, was only necessary because I built the
thing too large by a 1/2inch.  Normally, I simply bend the came leaves
together with a stopping knife, and this provides the reduction in size
I need.  Another way is to bend only one leaf in and the other out.  Put
the panel in with the bent side first.  Then when the panel is in, you
push the other leaf into the rebate space, thus giving a tight secure
fit.

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 16:12:00 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: jerri m Roey <jroey@juno.com>
Subject: Re: slumping w/ greenware
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:18:05 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.0185.0>
References: <<1998Sep8.111133.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Sep8.111133.0@?>, jerri m Roey <jroey@juno.com> writes
>       A friend that owns a ceramic shop is going to let me play with a
>piece of greenware.  I know someone out there mentioned a while back,
>using greenware for molds.  My friend said he'll fire the piece once
>(bisque?) and put in three small air holes.  What else do I need to know
>about slumping this way?  Do I just prime the mold (a plate mold) and go
>from there?  I'm excited about trying this because if it works well, I
>can get all kinds of greenware from him for molds and they are certainly
>much cheaper than buying the slumping molds.
>
>Thanks,
>Jerri
>
Jerri,

I use ceramic (and other material) moulds.  If greenware is the same as
bisque (and I think it is), one thing you have to be careful about is
the speed with which you take the temperature up.  Bisque ware can take
about 150 degrees C. per hour without difficulty.  It cannot take 350 C
per hour.    

Also after putting on the kiln wash, you must dry the whole, as the
ceramic material absorbs the water.  This must be done in a vented kiln
at about 150 C an hour holding at 300 C for about half an hour.  This
will ensure it is dry and does not break due to the steam pressures if
the temp is taken up quickly. 

I find that glazed ceramics can be taken up much faster (250 - 300 C) as
the glaze keeps the water out of the ceramic body.  Of course, then you
need to put the kiln wash on the heated (ca. 140 C, but no higher) mould
body, to ensure an even coating, without runs and the risk of uncoated
portions.

Bisque ware is good because it is cheap and so expendable.  But to
ensure it is not rapidly used up do these things:
- Dry the mould after any period of more than a few days without use.
- Dry the mould after putting kiln wash on it
- Drying should be at 150 C per hour or less
- Slumping and Draping should be done at initial temperature rises of
about 150 C and certainly not more than 200 C until 500 C is reached,
then the temperature can be raised much faster (around 500 C per hour),
as any water has been expelled by this time.
- Slumping seems to work better than draping with bisque ware moulds
- Draping works equally well as slumping with glazed moulds

There are lots of cheap ceramic shapes available in garage sales,
jumble, etc. which are already glazed.

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 16:15:45 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Labor Day Fair
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:47:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep8.144747.0>
Precedence: bulk

Well, I've survived my first (and
perhaps my last!) outdoor arts and
crafts festival!  It was so unbearably
hot that the only impression I have
right now is that arts & crafts fairs
are HOT!  However, thanks to the =

supply lists posted here on bungi,
I didn't leave home without anything
important except the Three F's:
fly swatter, flashlight, and fork.  In
fact, we were so well prepared that
much of my stuff returned home with
masking tape labels that read:  Return
to Dani Greer or else. ;-)

Best regards,

D.
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 16:44:56 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: best tool for tapering lead came?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:21:06 +0000
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Precedence: bulk



Hi Carol   and all,

Your best trimming tool for tapering is a fairly wide chisel, but 
with a thin blade (approx 1-2 mm), of the type one scrapes off 
wall-paper with.
Three secrets:
-  You need to sharpen it to almost razor edge sharpness;
-  You do your tapering AFTER you have leaded;
-  You gently rock the chisel, with the handle inside the palm of 
your hand, and provided you have sharpened the blade sufficiently, it 
should cut through the lead like butter.

For trimming back the H-lead to fit during installation, use 
something we over here call a "surform". It looks a little bit like 
a rasp, but with holes in it to collect up all the lead bits. The 
rasp-blade (if one could call it that) is fixed outside a small 
metal casing, which fits quite snugly inside your hand.
Don't try to trim the lead with knives , scalpels or exacto knives; 
that only hacks it about to a dreadful mess (and could also be quite 
dangerous). 
Both  tools are  very very cheap and should be available 
at any small DIY merchant or super-store.

I use the plaster-chisel all the time, instead of a lead-knife, since 
I can sharpen it so much better and find I get more accurate 
lead-cuts by resting the handle inside my hand and using my body as 
a gentle weight, rather than holding a traditional lead-knife 
"sideways", as it were.

Hope this makes sense.....
Take care now
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Carol Swann wrote:
> 
> I want to use 3/4" lead came as silhouette for some grasses in a lead came
> piece I'm doing.  My plan is to taper the came from 3/4" at the base of the
> came down to a narrow tip at the top of the grass blade.  
> 
> What tool would work best for this, and should I trim it down before or
> after I've got the glass inserted? 
> 
> Also what tool works best for shaving the edges of lead H came around window
> borders during installation?
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 17:05:05 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Byron Wells <byronw@eatumup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: pattern search
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:47:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep8.144754.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Byron-

You cannot go wrong taking a =

drawing class!  The very best art
in any medium begins with the
ability to draw well.  We've had =

customers ask to buy our cartoons
to frame!  And Michael and I still,
after all these years, regularly =

participate in a figure drawing class
to really stay sharp.  I would =

recommend the habit to everyone.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 17:29:18 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:alewis@vgernet.net" <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: IGGA News Memo
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:46:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep8.154620.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hooray, Albert and thanks
to you and Gerry both.  The
timing is marvelous since I'm
needing to print more business
cards and the old URL was a =

bit cumbersome.  Nonetheless,
I appreciate Dave and Glenna
just as much for allowing the
IGGA site to exist in the first
place.  You're all the bestest!

;-)

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/       (I love it!)
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 18:27:38 1998
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X-Path: citynet.net!khupp
From: Kathy Hupp <khupp@citynet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: gallery address
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 20:40:03 -0400
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Hi All,

I have a new hard drive, and have lost the Bungi gallery address. I
can't find Daniel's either. Can someone please post the gallery address
for me?

Thanks, Kathy
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 20:14:43 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!gmacfarland
From: gmacfarland@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 22:32:01 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.2321.0>
Precedence: bulk

I was given this address by jazzykid & told that there are lots of people
that are willing to share their knowledge with those less experienced. 
I was wondering if someone could help me find something. About a year ago
I saw a portable work board that you can lay out your work on & when you
are finished for that time you can close the top over your work & carry
it home from class or whatever.  I have a very small place to work in & I
had the idea that when I am finished for the day I can remove it from my
table & again have use of the table without so much hassle.  I know you
aren't supposed to use your table but that's all I have at this time.  If
anyone could help me find this item I would appreciate it greatly.  I am
also open to any suggestions.
Thanks
Gail

_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 20:40:55 1998
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From: Goldpaws <gmanning@banet.net>
To: Kathy Hupp <khupp@citynet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: gallery address
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 22:40:06 -0400
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Precedence: bulk

Gallery address: http://csg.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/glass/gallery
Beautiful work shown there!!
Goldpaws

Kathy Hupp wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have a new hard drive, and have lost the Bungi gallery address. I
> can't find Daniel's either. Can someone please post the gallery address
> for me?
>
> Thanks, Kathy
> ----
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From: Carolyn Duncan <chick@cyberg8t.com>
To: newsgroup <glass@bungi.com>
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Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 20:07:54 -0700
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Mike  My iron is very light.  It is about the thickness of my index
finger.  I chose that over the 150w for that very reason.  I bought it
at the Las Vegas Glass Expo., so I got a good price.  About $82
including stand.  Well worth the price. Carolyn
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 21:07:16 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Kathy Hupp" <khupp@citynet.net>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: gallery address
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 98 23:08:52 -0400
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>Hi All,
>
>I have a new hard drive, and have lost the Bungi gallery address. I
>can't find Daniel's either. Can someone please post the gallery address
>for me?

Hi Kathy,

Here's the instructions from Daniel to post to the gallery.
Suzanne


Hi SGers,

Well, I believe there is enough interest to start the project off the
ground. My goal is to make the gallery as automatic as possible in
order to allow anybody who wants to add a photo to make it as easy and
simple as possible. I will not worry anybody with the details for the
time being. 

I'd like to start with a small prototype. I'd like to receive around
10 images for this first stage. If you have one you want to include,
please do the following:

1. Fill in the form underneath.
2. Attach an image of the figure. Please, try to save it as a JPEG
file, it will be smaller. Send it at a decent "displayable"
resolution. Lets say, approx. 500 pixels in size. 
3. Send the message to "dmg@aries27.uwaterloo.ca"


Thanks a lot!



dmg

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Artist's Name: 
Artist's URL: 
Title:
Year:
Description:
Other:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Instructions:

You can use several lines for each field. The URL might be left empty
if you don't have a home page. If you think that there is some other
information necessary, please let me know. If you want, you can use
HTML code for any of the fields.

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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 21:23:14 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: gmacfarland@juno.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 23:32:30 -0400
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gmacfarland@juno.com wrote:
> 
> I was given this address by jazzykid & told that there are lots of people
> that are willing to share their knowledge with those less experienced.
> I was wondering if someone could help me find something. About a year ago
> I saw a portable work board that you can lay out your work on & when you
> are finished for that time you can close the top over your work & carry
> it home from class or whatever.  I have a very small place to work in & I
> had the idea that when I am finished for the day I can remove it from my
> table & again have use of the table without so much hassle.  I know you
> aren't supposed to use your table but that's all I have at this time.  If
> anyone could help me find this item I would appreciate it greatly.  I am
> also open to any suggestions.
> Thanks
> Gail
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


 i think morton makes that thing, i think it's called "the portable
glass shop" or something like that. if it's not morton, then it's emrald
rainbow (i think that's it's name). i wonder if inland has something
like that.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 03:48:57 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
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Subject: Squirrrel-I have great pic
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:09:36 -0400
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I forget who wanted the squirrel but in the lastest issue of Progressive =
Farmer there is a great full page shot of s squirrel sitting profile, =
bushy tail and all. If it's what you want, I can snail mail it to you or =
scan and sent jpeg or gif.

Linda Campbell
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 06:22:07 1998
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X-Path: csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca!dmg
From: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Lurking, gallery and others.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:57:56 -0400
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Hi everybody,

For some time I have been passively lurking, while my live has been
having dramatic changes. September has been bringing me back to my
usual routine and I hope I can contribute more often than I had. 

I still have photos from two people, I believe that I have not been
able to put up into the gallery. I apologize to them and I will
correct that problem ASAP. 

Besides, please notice that the email submission address is no longer
dmg@aries17.uwaterloo.ca, but dmorales@se.uwaterloo.ca. The new
address is in the instructions in the gallery at:

http://csg.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/glass/gallery

Best regards,



--
Daniel M. German
http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca

 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 08:25:24 1998
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From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry)
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 10:32:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.63255.0>
References: <<199809082255.SAA02308@vger.vgernet.net>>
Organization: Trade Winds
Precedence: bulk

Hi Albert,
When I posted my problems to the group I did not expect to be drawn and
quartered in this manner.  I will now try to set the record straight. I
worked in a can plant not a canning factory.  We had 8 solder lines in
the plant.  The plant made millions of cans a day.  When on clean up I
was responsible for cleaning 2 of those lines each night after 2 shifts
of production.

I work with stained glass but only to fuse or use in a torch.  

Your so-called safety pro needs to go back to school.  The accuracy of
hair analysis was challenged in January of 1985 and was determined to be
a reliable indicator of essential and toxic elements and minerals in the
body as a whole.  Chelation therapy is approved by the FDA for removal
of heavy metals.

Not that it is any of your business but for the record I do not drink,
have never taken recreational drugs,and I quit smoking some 20 years
ago.

>From the reports,  the lead in my system prevents my body from
assimulating essentual minerals.  Lack of those minerals do indeed cause
the problems I am experiencing.

I have had problems with my legs for more than 11 years.  They only
became more accute in the last two.  I have been told by a reliable
source that lead can be silent in the body for many years until some
traumatic experience (plant closing) will cause a myriad of problems.

I have been under the care of a neurologist for the past two years.  An
EMG shows a neuropithy in the legs.  Heavy metal tests  show arsenic. 
Blood will only show current levels in your system(not what is already
in tissue).

I would urge anyone that suspects lead poisoning to get a hair analysis.

I don't want this group to become wrapped up in a health discussion. 
Any further comments should be off line. I will not address the group
again.

Thanks to all that showed concern for my well-being.

TWLARRY



Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> Hi, everyone. I was concerned about the ongoing chat about lead
> poisoning and steps people were taking to combat it, so I spoke with
> Monona Rossol about what was being said here. She took a look at what
> been being said and had the following comments that I'm passing
> along. For what it's worth (a lot, I think), Monona is the Studio
> Safety person for the Guild, besides being a specialist in arts &
> crafts hygiene.
> 
> Her comments follow the >>quoted sections:
> 
> >>> Hi Bob,
> > I don't know what would be considered safe but I just found out I
> > have extensive lead poisining.  I can tell you firt hand it is not
> > pleasant to go through and I will be in treatment for months to get
> > rid of it. <
> 
> If it is from years in the canning factory, he will not get rid of it.  He
> may lesson symptoms, but he is carrying it in his bones.  We do turn over
> bone lead and calcium, but it is over a period of years.
> 
> And if he has had lead poisoning all these years, removing the lead is still
> going to leave him with the serious neurological deficits he describes.  The
> important question is: *when* did his overt symptoms begin?  If they did not
> begin while he was working with lead, then there is something else in
> addition to lead going on here.
> 
> > It was also hard to detect.  I have spent thousands of dollars on
> > tests to find out what was causing my problems. <
> 
> Dumb doctors.  A work history in a canning factory would have indicated lead
> was the first thing to check out.
> 
> > Finally when doctors were still scratching their heads I had a hair
> > analysis that read 2.70.  The normal acceptable high is .8.  It also
> > indicated high cadium and arsnic. <
> 
> This is not diagnostic of lead poisoning.  If a lab in New York did hair
> tests for diagnosis of lead poisoning, they would be fined $10,000.  There are
> many reasons why hair analysis can turn up high lead without their being an
> excessive body burden.
> 
> > I had heavy metal tests but found they do not indicate high levels of
> > toxins built up in the tissue. <
> 
> There are two possibilities here:
> 
> 1) he doesn't have lead poisoning; or
> 
> 2)  the wrong type of doctor ordered the wrong test.  He probably would
> have an almost normal blood lead test.  What he needs instead is a lead
> chelate challenge test which flushes some lead out of the bones to give an
> indication of the body burden he's carrying.
> 
> > I worked in a can-making plant for 27yrs.  We used lead solders in
> > the seams till the goverment stopped it in the late 70s.  We were never
> > cautioned to use masks or anything like that.  I often cleaned
> > exaust hoods that were over the solder pots. The dust would fly all over
> > the place because we would use air hoses to get into the stacks. <
> 
> If this means that his exposure to lead stopped almost 20 years ago, the
> symptoms should be better now.   Age could be exacerbating pre-existing
> lead-induced damage to his nervous system. Another theory is that the canning
> factory switched to solders containing cadmium.  That was common at first.
> 
> > I have lost much of the motor control to my legs,  I bloat very easy.
> > I get unexplained rashes like hives.  I get tremors when on my feet
> > too long and my hair was falling out in gobs.<<
> 
> Nah.  Something else is going on here.  Some smart person needs to walk
> through this guy's life looking at all his past and present activities,
> hobbies, gardening, lawn care, food sources, alcohol consumption, ceramic
> dishes, heating system for his house, lead paint on the walls, water sources,
> medications he takes--including recreational, herbs and natural supplements
> (lord help him), and is his wife trying to poison him.
> 
> Much of this is what a good medical history should reveal.
> 
> Interestingly, the symptoms read more like arsenic or thallium.  Or a
> combination of chemicals.
> 
> > I am sorry to hear of your problems with heavy metal poisoning. Do
> > you do stained glass and work with lead and solder in foil or came
> > work?  <
> 
> How come he didn't answer this question?  If he is--and in his house--this
> could explain the whole thing.
> 
> >>I am in Chelation Therapy.<
> 
> If he is in chelation therapy without finding a body burden on traditional
> tests, he may be doing alternative treatment therapy.  This is very unwise
> from both a health and a legal perspective.  Chelation puts a serious stress
> on the body and if it is done alternatively without accepted diagnostic
> reasons, he has thrown away any hope of getting any kind of compensation from
> any employer.
> 
> >  I go weekly for and I. V. that lasts 3
> > 1/2 to 4 hours.  I drive 1 1/2 hours to get to the location for treatment.
> > I am going to request that the Company pay for it but our plant is
> > closed and I am on early retirement so I don't know what kind of a
> > fightI will have on my hands.  The treatments are $90.00 per.  I will
> > probably need at least 15 treatments.  My hands are black and blue
> > from the needles as my veins roll.  There is danger to the kidneys as
> > they have to carry the poison out of the system. <<
> 
> If I ask these questions, you can be sure that lawyers for the canning
> company sure will.  And if this guy is getting alternative medicine
> chelation, he will collect nuttin'.
> 
> > Allowing workers to blow out solder pot exhaust hoods with compressed
> > air and no respiratory and other protection is criminal  on the part
> > of management in my book. Get a lawyer and get their a**. Talk to
> > OSHA too. Scream until you are satisfied. This is a great country and
> > we have no need to kill our workers off. Make a big enough stink and
> > your case may save others from similar problems.  Bob <
> 
> Before screaming, find out for sure what the problem is.
> 
> Monona
> 
> Hope this is helpful.
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
> A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
> 54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
> (413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
> _____________________________________________
> Home page     http://www.igga.org/
> Membership    http://www.igga.org/benefits.htm
> Members' work http://igga.org/links.htm
> Sources Guide http://www.igga.org/guide.htm
> Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 08:56:25 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Labor Day Fair
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:23:19 -0700
Message-ID: <199809091523.IAA30586@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Dani,

Summer fairs are indeed HOT!  One of the adavantages to being a glass artist
is that it's usually possible to cajole the organizers into providing power
to the booth so that lamps are properly displayed (I always do one
spectacular lamp for this reason)...which brings me to the 4th F...a fan!!!
It attracts customers and keeps them in the booth too...and the longer they
stay, the more likely they are to buy, or at least pick up a card and
remember the work.

By the way, I'm curious...the 2nd F a flashlight??? 

And being well prepared is a good thing, particularly if you're running a
booth alone.  I find that by having a lot of stuff to loan (taped or not) I
feel comfortable calling on surrounding booths for help in hanging tarps at
night and other things that take more than 2 hands during set up and tear
down.   It's a good thing to be able to be a resource like that.

And I do find indoor shows to be much less stressful, even if they are out
of town to boot, basically because they are cooler.

Hope you sold lots!!

Later



>Well, I've survived my first (and
>perhaps my last!) outdoor arts and
>crafts festival!  It was so unbearably
>hot that the only impression I have
>right now is that arts & crafts fairs
>are HOT!  However, thanks to the =
>
>supply lists posted here on bungi,
>I didn't leave home without anything
>important except the Three F's:
>fly swatter, flashlight, and fork.  In
>fact, we were so well prepared that
>much of my stuff returned home with
>masking tape labels that read:  Return
>to Dani Greer or else. ;-)
>
>Best regards,
>
>D.
>Greer Gallery & Studios
>----
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>
>

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.bungi.com/glass/igga/synergy

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 10:23:07 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:46:25 +0000
Message-ID: <199809091814.OAA26165@vger.vgernet.net>
Precedence: bulk


> When I posted my problems to the group I did not expect to be drawn and
> quartered in this manner. 

I'm sorry you feel that way, Larry. Monona didn't mean that, I'm 
sure. She's very blunt, no doubt about that, but her heart is on your 
side, not against you.

Monona spends *all of her time working with artists, craftspeople and 
theater people to see that they're protected from the materials they 
use and from the environment they have to work in. Most of the time 
she puts in as a hygienist is donated to the nonprofit organization 
called "Arts, Crafts, & Theater Safety," although quite often 
companies, states and sometimes countries call her in to see that 
their employees, artists and artisans are properly protected 
healthwise.

I passed her comments along because she's knowledgeable and informed, 
so if I were you, I'd overlook her bluntness and dig out the facts 
she lists. Hair analysis, for instance, is suspect. The rest is 
there. If you have additional questions about lead poisoning or any 
other materials used in a studio environment, Monona fields questions 
like that for free and will answer them personally. I urge you to 
take advantage of what she has to say.  She can be contacted 
personally at acts@caseweb.com


> I don't want this group to become wrapped up in a health discussion. 
> Any further comments should be off line. I will not address the group
> again.

Well, I think this group is a perfect place to discuss health issues 
in connection with working with glass. Am I alone in this thought?

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 11:21:25 1998
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: jerri m Roey <jroey@juno.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: slumping w/ greenware
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:17:57 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.31757.0>
References: <<1998Sep8.111133.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Jerri:  Let us know what happens with your slumping activity.  I
understand you can slump with bisque as long as you apply the kiln wash
and let it dry first.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 12:21:59 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: best tool for tapering lead came?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:46:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.104655.0>
Precedence: bulk

We use a block plane BEFORE
leading the window.  Works best
with long runs of lead - holding
the stretched lead in one hand,
plane away from you and toward
the narrowest end of the taper.
Work each leaf until you get the
taper you want on one side, then
flip the lead and taper the other
pair of leaves.  That's probably
about as clear as mud!  Good =

luck.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/ =

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 14:19:55 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:46:29 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.214629.0>
References: <<199809091814.OAA26165@vger.vgernet.net>>
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In message <199809091814.OAA26165@vger.vgernet.net>, Albert Lewis
<alewis@vgernet.net> writes
>
>> I don't want this group to become wrapped up in a health discussion. 
>> Any further comments should be off line. I will not address the group
>> again.
>
>Well, I think this group is a perfect place to discuss health issues 
>in connection with working with glass. Am I alone in this thought?
>
>Albert

No, Albert you are not alone.  The health issues in working with the
materials used in stained glass are important for all workers at what
ever level.  It is important to keep these issues at the front of our
minds so we can work safely.
steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 14:50:30 1998
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Subject: praying hands pattern
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:53:47 +0100
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Cant remember if I saw a response to someones request for a praying hands
pattern, but I was given this url for one recently -
http://huizen.dds.nl/~chr2/clipart.htm
Elizabeth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 16:46:45 1998
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From: Gary Schroeder <garys@ameritech.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: "drawn and quartered"
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:34:14 -0400
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Albert,

For what its worth I whole heartedly agree with you. Safety must be kept
in the forefront of our actions. Injuries to ourselves and to others can
be very painful and not to mention costly.

I found Monona's comments very informative. Please don't hesitate to
breech the subject of safety again. I for one thank you for your efforts

Gary
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 17:46:58 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Health Issues and Glass
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:53:18 -0400
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I think a good discussion on the dangers and precautions of working with
lead and glass would be an excellent subject.  My own reasons may be
selfish, as I'm an 8 year survivor of lung cancer and didn't realize by
grinding glass that I was inhaling dust.  I believe it was on Bungi that
someone mentioned the fact and now I use a mask while grinding.  The
instructors and owner of the studio where I get my supplies do not take
any precautions with lead, as they eat, drink, and smoke while soldering
and also with no exhaust system in place for the fumes.  I would like to
know if the throwaway masks are as effective as the more cumbersome ones
when grinding.  Be happy to hear any and all opinions on that one.

Carol T

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 18:20:45 1998
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Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:37:48 EDT
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In a message dated 9/9/98 5:20:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, s.richard@verrier-
scotland.demon.co.uk writes:

<< No, Albert you are not alone.  The health issues in working with the
 materials used in stained glass are important for all workers at what
 ever level.  It is important to keep these issues at the front of our
 minds so we can work safely. >>

I also agree.  Until I read of the danger in doing so, I always smoked while
soldering (the two seemed like a natural - me and my iron, smoking away!)  I
have since stopped and always wash my hands before taking a break for a smoke.
Never realized before that the lead residue could be ingested.  I'm also more
conscious of the glass grit, both in the air and down the drain, because of
discussions here.  I'm sure there are other health related areas that will
come up for debate in the future that will further educate me and I welcome
it.

Brenda Marhon
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 18:41:01 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "drawn and quartered"
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Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:54:59 +0000
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> For what its worth I whole heartedly agree with you. Safety must be kept
> in the forefront of our actions. Injuries to ourselves and to others can
> be very painful and not to mention costly.

Thanks, Gary. I'm sorry if discussing it was problematic for some, 
but I thought it was an open question and that it was already being 
discussed. Personally, I think there's lots of nay-saying going on in 
regard to glassworkers' health and exposure (always has been) and 
that any and all information about it is helpful.

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 21:23:43 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Artist needs help
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:27:22 -0500
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One of our fellow bungarians (Susan Bloch-Welliver, bio #17)  wrote me this
short bio. But it struck me that instead of a bio it is a request for
assistance in case it is needed. Contact her directly if you can help
BlochStudio@EarthCorp.com

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Hi,
I am also a glass artist.  I read your bio with interest sometime ago.  I
was on the list but seem to have been disconnected when I had problems with
my server.

I live in Elmira, NY & have just finished a commission that my husband and I
were to install in Boca Raton.
I was to be leaving in a couple of weeks to go to Florida.  Within the last
3 weeks, my mother came down with cancer
and it's been snowballing.  It started with a tiny lump that wasn't supposed
to be cancer. Then it was self contained. Then a lumpectomy. Then a
mastectomy and she was to just be dealing with phsycial therapy. Now it
seems it's
in her lymph nodes and she's beginning chemotherapy and other treatment.
I'm planning to go be with her in NJ as soon as I finish packing the glass
for shipping.  My husband has arranged to go with as friend to install the
window.
Neither of them are glass artists.  I'm hoping there's a way I can stay with
my mother rather than go.

I'm looking for a glass artist in the vicinity of the installation that my
husband can hire in the case of a problem.

I'm wondering if you have any experience with replacing broken glass in a
stained glass window in case it arrives
damaged in any way.  If not, can you recommend anyone?
If need be, I will go to Florida to do this, but if I could find someone
competent it would be much more helpful.

If you feel this is something you can do, great.
If not, that's ok, too.  I'm sure there must be someone around there that
could help if need be.

Thank you for your time.

Susan Bloch-Welliver

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 21:41:11 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Drawn and Quartered & stuff
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:56:24 -0500
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Safety is paramount in any endeavor, especially in an art form where there
is no real regulation except on a commercial scale. Would anyone work as a
glassblower without gloves? A welder without a mask? A (American)football
player without a helmet? A boxer without a mouthpiece? A doctor or nurse
without rubber gloves? I don't think so. Precautions are a nuisance but are
necessary if you want to live and create another day.

Recently I found out that an excellent woodworker with whom I am acquainted
had cut off numerous fingers on a wood shaper. The irony is that he created
quite a fuss a while ago when the manager of the craft shop insisted he
follow the safety rules and he objected. He took his objection to the
manager's boss with whom he had been friends with for years. The boss waived
the safety rules for him and the manager became gun shy trying to supervise
his activities. Bottom line ....  a law suit is now pending, he is no longer
capable of doing wonderful work, he is in constant pain, and can't work. The
boss is deep trouble (may lose his job) for not backing up the manager. I'm
sure that there are a million such stories that anyone can tell this one
just happened to be on my mind before I read the post about lead poisoning.

All right, now I can get off the soapbox. Except for one more statement ...
Be careful, how else can I receive the bios to post and keep that "Hound of
the Baskerviles" off my butt. Speaking of bios I am down to one. Send them
to me, or no amount of safety can keep that gray and white devil off of
e.( hello Toby .... nice doggy)


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 23:28:14 1998
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Dear Susan,

I'm so sorry to hear about your mother.  I hope she gets past this hurdle
quickly and regains her health very soon.

Susie
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 04:57:04 1998
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Subject: Susan Bloch-welliver
Date: Thu Sep 10 04:09:34 1998
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susan
i live in cincinnati, but if you cannot find someone to help your husband,
i will go
i own my own studio and can close for a few days to help out
i am a six time cancer survivor (one being breast cancer) and understand
the trauma you are going through--tell your mom to believe in mind over
matter (works wonders)

positive attitude and keeping her energy up is the most important thing--no
amount of treatment can help without those two things--

good luck
i can be reached tues thru fri from 10am to 7pm at (513) 231-0082  --- i am
leaving tonight for a show in ky, but my cell phone number is 513-658-4762

let me know when we're going
thanx
debbie taylor

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 05:31:38 1998
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From: "Gerard" <harlquin@mpx.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: re: slumping and greenware
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:29:45 +1000
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I have done some experiments some time ago with slumping. I succesfully used
some old fluted plates (ex salvation army store). got the glaze off by
sandblasting and then applied the wash. no problems with those. Also used
stainless steel bowls (i soon found out that you can only drape over the
metal moulds because of the contraction on cooling). Also used greenware
pieces and terracota pots (none of them had any vent holes etc..) I beleive
pottery has to be fired slowly but no other precautions seemed necessary.
Harlequin
www.surf.to/harlquin
discussion board at
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb131394

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 05:42:04 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Health Issues and Glass
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:43:31 -0400
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I thought that when you used water in your grinder that it kept all =
airborne dust down.  That's one reason I use lots of water. Am I in =
error?


Linda Campbell

----------
From: =09

I would like to
know if the throwaway masks are as effective as the more cumbersome ones
when grinding.  Be happy to hear any and all opinions on that one.

Carol T

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 06:01:16 1998
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From: "Vic LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Automatic solder dispenser
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:57:32 -0400
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I have read the health thread with interest since I smoke and solder all
the time.  

While at Warner Crivellero, where I met Laverne of this group, I questioned
the Rep. from Weller as to when they would develop an automatic sodder
dispenser.  He said that they have tried but had not found a way to create
an effective way to do it.  

On the other hand, I have one that I purchased from a local electronics
store which I have used for years for spot welding and the construction of
"ham radio" related gear.  It works great for this application as a third
hand. I tried once to run a bead on copper foil but found it difficult,
sloppy and inconsistent.  Since my current dispenser has gotten old and
sloppy I may purchase another to try for glass work.  If I recall
correctly, they run about $20-$25 and are affordable for most people.

Has anyone here used one with good results?

Ciao

Vic LaGreca, SIOR, CCIM

PS:  To Laverne if she is lurking, or I am missing her, please Email me, or
call me if you still have my card.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 06:31:24 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Susan Bloch-welliver
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:28:24 -0400
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Just a lurker here but what a wonderful, unselfish person you are.

Linda

----------
From: 	daver!one.net!kleeman[SMTP:daver!one.net!kleeman]
Sent: 	Thursday, September 10, 1998 12:09 AM
To: 	glass@bungi.com
Subject: 	Susan Bloch-welliver

susan
i live in cincinnati, but if you cannot find someone to help your husband,
i will go
i own my own studio and can close for a few days to help out
i am a six time cancer survivor (one being breast cancer) and understand
the trauma you are going through--tell your mom to believe in mind over
matter (works wonders)

positive attitude and keeping her energy up is the most important thing--no
amount of treatment can help without those two things--

good luck
i can be reached tues thru fri from 10am to 7pm at (513) 231-0082  --- i am
leaving tonight for a show in ky, but my cell phone number is 513-658-4762

let me know when we're going
thanx
debbie taylor

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 07:27:56 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: slumping and greenware
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:47:55 +0000
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> metal moulds because of the contraction on cooling). Also used greenware
> pieces and terracota pots (none of them had any vent holes etc..)

Yes, I would agree that vent holes in the greenware are unnecessary. 
The potter's used to having to allow for the escape of both physical 
and molecular water during firiing, but that won't be a problem with 
glass. If you slump over a form that has vent holes, you'll get at 
least a dimple (or actually more of a "mole") at the location of each 
vent hole. At higher temperatures, the glass will begin to creep into 
the hole and you'll get a fine, everlastingly permanent bond between 
the glass and its mold. <s>

Get the greenware molds *without vent holes and you'll be fine.

Albert
(who's been a potter of the old school and a glassmaker of the new)
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 07:45:12 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: mea culpa
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Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:47:55 +0000
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By the way ...

Since a couple of months ago (or more) I was roundly chastised for 
posting IGGA announcements in this forum, I tweaked the software that 
generates them to eliminate it from from the autolist those 
announcements are sent to.

I added a graphic for bungi.com to the Guild's new web site at
http://www.igga.org/
and hope others find this group as helpful and friendly as I have.

The notification that the Guild's site had moved wasn't sent to this 
group, although several regular contributors to the group already 
have received it. Just so ya know. <s>

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 07:59:34 1998
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X-Path: aracnet.net!bigcreek
From: Wayne Parks <bigcreek@aracnet.net>
To: Vic LaGreca <vlg@worldnet.att.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-UNICODE-2-0-UTF-7
Subject: Re: Web Site
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:49:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep10.54943.0>
References: <<19980910115414.YLRF17133@vic>>
Organization: Big Creek Studio
Precedence: bulk

Hi All:
Just put up a home page and thought that some may be interested.
http://home.talkcity.com/PicassoPl/camerashy/

Now I will go back to my lurking !!

Wayne Parks
Big Creek Studio
bigcreek@aracnet.net

"To bring the dead to life
Is no great magic.
Few are wholly dead:
Blow on a dead mans embers
And a live flame will start."
                      Robert Graves
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 08:32:08 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Automatic solder dispenser
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:27:08 -0400
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References: <<19980910115414.YLRF17133@vic>>
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Vic LaGreca wrote:
> 
> I have read the health thread with interest since I smoke and solder all
> the time.
> 
> While at Warner Crivellero, where I met Laverne of this group, I questioned
> the Rep. from Weller as to when they would develop an automatic sodder
> dispenser.  He said that they have tried but had not found a way to create
> an effective way to do it.
> 
> On the other hand, I have one that I purchased from a local electronics
> store which I have used for years for spot welding and the construction of
> "ham radio" related gear.  It works great for this application as a third
> hand. I tried once to run a bead on copper foil but found it difficult,
> sloppy and inconsistent.  Since my current dispenser has gotten old and
> sloppy I may purchase another to try for glass work.  If I recall
> correctly, they run about $20-$25 and are affordable for most people.
> 
> Has anyone here used one with good results?
> 
> Ciao
> 
> Vic LaGreca, SIOR, CCIM
> 
> PS:  To Laverne if she is lurking, or I am missing her, please Email me, or
> call me if you still have my card.
> 
> ----
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if i had to guess, the iron probably is'nt hot enough to flow out enough
solder and heat up the copper around it. if it was real hot it would
melt the solder coming into it, before having a chance to go through the
little hole. 

i personally would'nt mind one, it would make soldering in chain in a
box better. along with other tasks where a few more hands is needed.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 09:30:11 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Health Issues and Glass
Date: Thu Sep 10 08:19:48 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.55548.0>
Precedence: bulk

There are disposable masks that will keep you from inhaling lead.
They should not be confused with the cheap disposable you see in Home
Depot.  
I think someone mentioned that to stop lead particles the mask had to
filter at least 3 microns and up, but I could be wrong.
You may want to E-mail OSHA (boo hiss) and ask them for info.

I would also find another studio. If they care that little about
themselves how concerned can they be about you?

Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Carol Tombro [mailto:ctombro@InfoAve.Net]
		Sent:	Wednesday, September 09, 1998 7:53 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Health Issues and Glass

		I think a good discussion on the dangers and precautions
of working with
		lead and glass would be an excellent subject.  My own
reasons may be
		selfish, as I'm an 8 year survivor of lung cancer and
didn't realize by
		grinding glass that I was inhaling dust.  I believe it
was on Bungi that
		someone mentioned the fact and now I use a mask while
grinding.  The
		instructors and owner of the studio where I get my
supplies do not take
		any precautions with lead, as they eat, drink, and smoke
while soldering
		and also with no exhaust system in place for the fumes.
I would like to
		know if the throwaway masks are as effective as the more
cumbersome ones
		when grinding.  Be happy to hear any and all opinions on
that one.

		Carol T

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 10:02:29 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Drawn and Quartered & stuff
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:48:58 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

.... Sniff.snuffle, snuffle, SNORT!
Did someone mention  I R I S H Stew!?
Sniff, sniff! 
Bios?? What's that??
Much prefer a bit of Irish leg to Bios.
Pant, pant, pant!!   grrrr!  I can smell it from Here!
Let me have it!  grrrr!  Or was it Irish butt?
Toby  aka Baskerville

Someone called Irish butt wrote:
> Be careful, how else can I receive the bios to post and keep that "Hound of
> the Baskerviles" off my butt. Speaking of bios I am down to one. Send them
> to me, or no amount of safety can keep that gray and white devil off of
> e.( hello Toby .... nice doggy)
> 

> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 10:31:16 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Drawn and Quartered & stuff
Date: Thu Sep 10 08:54:22 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.63022.0>
Precedence: bulk

I agree safety is a paramount concern. Second guessing medical treatment
isn't.
The second point is what I think was objectionable. 

Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Pat Kelly [mailto:pkelly@n-link.com]
		Sent:	Wednesday, September 09, 1998 11:56 PM
		To:	glass bungi line
		Subject:	Re: Drawn and Quartered & stuff

		Safety is paramount in any endeavor, especially in an
art form where there
		is no real regulation except on a commercial scale.
Would anyone work as a
		glassblower without gloves? A welder without a mask? A
(American)football
		player without a helmet? A boxer without a mouthpiece? A
doctor or nurse
		without rubber gloves? I don't think so. Precautions are
a nuisance but are
		necessary if you want to live and create another day.

		Recently I found out that an excellent woodworker with
whom I am acquainted
		had cut off numerous fingers on a wood shaper. The irony
is that he created
		quite a fuss a while ago when the manager of the craft
shop insisted he
		follow the safety rules and he objected. He took his
objection to the
		manager's boss with whom he had been friends with for
years. The boss waived
		the safety rules for him and the manager became gun shy
trying to supervise
		his activities. Bottom line ....  a law suit is now
pending, he is no longer
		capable of doing wonderful work, he is in constant pain,
and can't work. The
		boss is deep trouble (may lose his job) for not backing
up the manager. I'm
		sure that there are a million such stories that anyone
can tell this one
		just happened to be on my mind before I read the post
about lead poisoning.

		All right, now I can get off the soapbox. Except for one
more statement ...
		Be careful, how else can I receive the bios to post and
keep that "Hound of
		the Baskerviles" off my butt. Speaking of bios I am down
to one. Send them
		to me, or no amount of safety can keep that gray and
white devil off of
		e.( hello Toby .... nice doggy)


		Patrick
		Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 10:56:53 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:59:12 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep10.165912.0>
Precedence: bulk

Regarding the use of water to keep the dust down, next time you grind look
carefully at your clothes and skin, notice the glittery coating?   If it all
over the outside of you, it must be inside too!  (The water cools the grinder
head and splashes glass laden water onto you too)

Glad to see the health related issued discussed here.   

You guys are great.

Pat   
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 11:37:42 1998
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From: crclark@swbell.net
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:34:06 -0700
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The poster was not refering to the health information but to the rude
way it was presented! I agree with him, it was rude. 
Thx.
C.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 13:10:34 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:13:50 +0000
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> The poster was not refering to the health information but to the rude
> way it was presented! I agree with him, it was rude. 

Again, my apologies for Monona's bluntness. You should hear her in a 
public presentation. Scary. No nonsense. No patpatpat on the back.

At the same time, her motivation is absolutely focused on the health 
of artists and craftspeople and she makes no bones about that. 
Manufacturers, distributors and retailers do not like her. Those 
who've met her, despite the bald, loud, hectoring tone of her 
lectures, know she loves them all, each and every one, and like a 
good mother, gives it to them right between the eyes if they're 
feeling comfortable (or lazy) about their health.

And that's the way it is.

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 13:31:02 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:10:40 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep10.111040.0>
References: <<1998Sep10.165912.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

As far as I can tell, the very small glass dust that would be harmful
for lungs is trapped in the water (My Diamond Max grinder may work
different) The larger chips are too heavy to breath, and splash all
over.  But Yes, a special respirator would be the safest way to go.  I
can't stand wearing one, so only use it for the most critical
applications.  (sifting casting investment plaster, working with acids,
etc.)  I cast gold and silver also, and most of that work is far more
dangerous.  

One thing we all should do, is take a shower and wash your hair after
every studio session.  My hair gets washed a lot. :-) 

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
 http://www.igga.org/rainboe/ 

CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Regarding the use of water to keep the dust down, next time you grind look
> carefully at your clothes and skin, notice the glittery coating?   If it all
> over the outside of you, it must be inside too!  (The water cools the grinder
> head and splashes glass laden water onto you too)
> 
> Glad to see the health related issued discussed here.
> 
> You guys are great.
> 
> Pat
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 14:29:14 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Health Issues and Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:08:40 +0000
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> There are disposable masks that will keep you from inhaling lead.
> They should not be confused with the cheap disposable you see in Home
> Depot.  

Serious glass studios use respirators, the replaceable cartridges for 
which are $25/pair, although those don't have to be replaced that 
often. The masks make you look like something from a B-movie (the 
glass craftsperson that came to Earth!) but they filter it all out. 
They use disposable paper dust only on job sites (incidental dust, 
not lead).  Just if you were curious to know.

Albert
 
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 15:03:34 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 98 16:35:41 -0400
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>
>> The poster was not refering to the health information but to the rude
>> way it was presented! I agree with him, it was rude. 
>
>Again, my apologies for Monona's bluntness. You should hear her in a 
>public presentation. Scary. No nonsense. No patpatpat on the back.
>
>At the same time, her motivation is absolutely focused on the health 
>of artists and craftspeople and she makes no bones about that. 
>Manufacturers, distributors and retailers do not like her. Those 
>who've met her, despite the bald, loud, hectoring tone of her 
>lectures, know she loves them all, each and every one, and like a 
>good mother, gives it to them right between the eyes if they're 
>feeling comfortable (or lazy) about their health.
>
>And that's the way it is.

...and should be! We all need someone like Monona.
Thanks, Monona.

Suzanne

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 16:32:25 1998
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--------------9921BED621B31BE0516F4932
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Thanks to all who answered my question regarding wearing a mask during
soldering and grinding, you've reinforced my feelings about it.  As far
as the way health information was presented, if it was rude, it
certainly got my attention.  I'd like to hear more from Monona, blunt
speaking and all, as regards safety working with stained glass.  I don't
shoot the messenger and certainly paid attention to what she had to say.

Carol T

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Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:13:50 +0000
From: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
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> The poster was not refering to the health information but to the rude
> way it was presented! I agree with him, it was rude. 

Again, my apologies for Monona's bluntness. You should hear her in a 
public presentation. Scary. No nonsense. No patpatpat on the back.

At the same time, her motivation is absolutely focused on the health 
of artists and craftspeople and she makes no bones about that. 
Manufacturers, distributors and retailers do not like her. Those 
who've met her, despite the bald, loud, hectoring tone of her 
lectures, know she loves them all, each and every one, and like a 
good mother, gives it to them right between the eyes if they're 
feeling comfortable (or lazy) about their health.

And that's the way it is.

Albert
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--------------9921BED621B31BE0516F4932--

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 17:17:45 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:59:46 +0000
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> As far as I can tell, the very small glass dust that would be harmful
> for lungs is trapped in the water

It's the dust you can't see that's the problem, alas.

A
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 17:41:49 1998
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X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
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>
>Here's my .02 cents.
>I myself have opened up to times on the internet concerning my health
issues, it's like truely bearing it all in the open field and we are not
talking E in the Uk soldering her heart out.
>It's an issue so darn personal.
>I can understand how one gets hurts.
>
>This fellow ( I believe message came from a guy,... I'm trying to be quiet
these days) had a special heart felt message to us all.
>Albert gladly had this lady reply, but the abruptness threw me too, though
she is knowledgeable. Maybe it should have been send private? And asked
later to share it?
>It does not take much to make Cindy cry and being as such I can see how
things have felt to this person. 
I wish to say hang in there please, when one does not have health one does
not have much!!!! Please be kind:)
Cindy.
>
>
>
>>>> The poster was not refering to the health information but to the rude
>>>> way it was presented! I agree with him, it was rude. 
>>>
>>>Again, my apologies for Monona's bluntness. You should hear her in a 
>>>public presentation. Scary. No nonsense. No patpatpat on the back.
>>>
>>>At the same time, her motivation is absolutely focused on the health 
>>>of artists and craftspeople and she makes no bones about that. 
>>>Manufacturers, distributors and retailers do not like her. Those 
>>>who've met her, despite the bald, loud, hectoring tone of her 
>>>lectures, know she loves them all, each and every one, and like a 
>>>good mother, gives it to them right between the eyes if they're 
>>>feeling comfortable (or lazy) about their health.
>>>
>>>And that's the way it is.
>>
>>...and should be! We all need someone like Monona.
>>Thanks, Monona.
>>
>>Suzanne
>>
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>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 18:34:07 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: The cutting edge
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:43:59 -0700 (PDT)
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We have heard tales!!!
Alot of tales ,....many amuse us, but do not belong and wish to know more!!
Are Patrick and E going to wed?
If not does the dog wed?
Hmmm, Cindy.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 18:58:40 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: mea culpa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:00:01 -0400
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Well, Albert, I must tell you that
I miss getting the Guild posts on
this forum....  can't keep up with =

the latest because I just don't take
the time to explore the Internet
very much.... don't even check my
own web site!  Are there really
that many bungians against =

posting the IGGA info memos????
I thought most of us were members =

of IGGA anyway... maybe I'm wrong
there.  =


And, while we're on the subject,
isn't the next Common Ground edition
about due?  I always look forward to
receiving mine.  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/   =


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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 19:17:30 1998
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Subject: Re: Health Issues and Glass
Date: Thu Sep 10 18:22:13 1998
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need to have a hepa filter

----------
> From: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: RE: Health Issues and Glass
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 4:19 AM
> 
> There are disposable masks that will keep you from inhaling lead.
> They should not be confused with the cheap disposable you see in Home
> Depot.  
> I think someone mentioned that to stop lead particles the mask had to
> filter at least 3 microns and up, but I could be wrong.
> You may want to E-mail OSHA (boo hiss) and ask them for info.
> 
> I would also find another studio. If they care that little about
> themselves how concerned can they be about you?
> 
> Vic
> 
> 		-----Original Message-----
> 		From:	Carol Tombro [mailto:ctombro@InfoAve.Net]
> 		Sent:	Wednesday, September 09, 1998 7:53 PM
> 		To:	glass@bungi.com
> 		Subject:	Health Issues and Glass
> 
> 		I think a good discussion on the dangers and precautions
> of working with
> 		lead and glass would be an excellent subject.  My own
> reasons may be
> 		selfish, as I'm an 8 year survivor of lung cancer and
> didn't realize by
> 		grinding glass that I was inhaling dust.  I believe it
> was on Bungi that
> 		someone mentioned the fact and now I use a mask while
> grinding.  The
> 		instructors and owner of the studio where I get my
> supplies do not take
> 		any precautions with lead, as they eat, drink, and smoke
> while soldering
> 		and also with no exhaust system in place for the fumes.
> I would like to
> 		know if the throwaway masks are as effective as the more
> cumbersome ones
> 		when grinding.  Be happy to hear any and all opinions on
> that one.
> 
> 		Carol T
> 
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 19:25:31 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:36:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep10.173655.0>
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Cindy et al -

I don't think Larry ever posted his
health issues directly to bungi - I
believe the post was second-hand
via another bungi member who
felt the information was relevant to
the group.  Am I correct ?  Having
communicated with Monona off-
bungi on numerous occasions, I
can assure you that, despite her tough
love approach, she is a real peach
and totally dedicated to  the welfare
of working artists.  Sometimes the
best way to get an ostrich's head =

out of the sand is to yank it out!!  I
would suspect, too, that given the
challenges Larry has faced in past
years, he is somewhat sensitive to
criticism of the path he has chosen.
Who wants to go through all that hell,
only to discover that we might have =

made the wrong choices because the
information we've been getting might
be incorrect?  Totally depressing.  =

On the other hand, new information
might lead to a better treatment.  I
wouldn't close the door on anything.

Just my thoughts.  And, of course,
my prayers to Larry and all our =

friends who face health challenges.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/    =

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 20:03:47 1998
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From: crclark@swbell.net
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:03:03 -0700
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Albert Lewis wrote:
 
> Again, my apologies for Monona's bluntness.
>
Hi,
Albert, you owe no one an apology, you were not rude! However, you do
seem to be saying that as long as one is acting as a teacher it's ok to
be rude. Shall we accept that principle as standard for the list? If I
do good work am I entitled to be unkind? May I set myself up as your
superior (mother) and talk down to you, my inferior (child). I think
not. If this woman claims to be a teacher this would imply that she is
also a student. That being the case I wonder why she hasn't learned that
kindness is always in order. I think that the claim that her ONLY
interest is to teach health issues rings false. If someone has a
headache, it's best not to deliver the aspirin with a hammer.
:-)
Thx,
C.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 23:01:40 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Input ... Input ... Input
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:02:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep10.19256.0>
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I need bios for this Saturday's posting. Where are all of the lurkers?
I'm getting desperate enough to post the bios of the dogs and cats again.
Quick, I need help. I can feel the drool of a Sheepdog on my neck. Easy
Toby, easy.




Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 23:13:36 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: With in Hell
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:09:03 -0700 (PDT)
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Endless and without mercy his Hell appears like legions of grotesque images,
invading his private domain.
Black shadows darken his days and torrents of saddness cancel all hope for
tomorrow.
His weaknened life crumbles in on him and broken are the pieces of his
fragil body, pain and sorrow sink deep into a bloody hole in his belly,
releasing a horrible evil, that has become his master. And he is left with
only threads of his own indentity.
Tired and weary he pushes on and he's allowed fragments of freedom, casting
a small glimmer of light, that embraces him like an angel. Wandering in and
wandering out this tiny ray of sunshine glows thru his bleakest hour. And
the love of life does prevail. Like an explosion bursting thru to his
subconscious he tries to find the true meaning of his destiny, taking him to
places of fantasy thru his mind. Peace and tranquility, is what he sees and
feels, but only for a short time. Thus barely giving him the strength to
struggle on. As his pain knows no limits, it's only to return masking the
joy that he felt, as he tries to recall his faint memories. Like gasping for
the finial breath of air, he becomes withdrawn once again. Torn from the
life that he once had, he now 
regressses back to his hidious self.

c.pesonen
small note... cindy tries creative writing...pain lives with in us all to
some degree, the answer lies in human kindness, to be shared and for all of
us to try to understand.

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 01:04:10 1998
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Cindy Pesonen <cpesonen@bcinternet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: With in Hell
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:47:13 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.164713.0>
References: <<199809110509.WAA32199@ns2.vphos.net>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
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Cindy Pesonen wrote:
> 
> Endless and without mercy his Hell appears like legions of grotesque images,
> invading his private domain.
> Black shadows darken his days and torrents of saddness cancel all hope for
> tomorrow.
> His weaknened life crumbles in on him and broken are the pieces of his
> fragil body, pain and sorrow sink deep into a bloody hole in his belly,
> releasing a horrible evil, that has become his master. And he is left with
> only threads of his own indentity.
> Tired and weary he pushes on and he's allowed fragments of freedom, casting
> a small glimmer of light, that embraces him like an angel. Wandering in and
> wandering out this tiny ray of sunshine glows thru his bleakest hour. And
> the love of life does prevail. Like an explosion bursting thru to his
> subconscious he tries to find the true meaning of his destiny, taking him to
> places of fantasy thru his mind. Peace and tranquility, is what he sees and
> feels, but only for a short time. Thus barely giving him the strength to
> struggle on. As his pain knows no limits, it's only to return masking the
> joy that he felt, as he tries to recall his faint memories. Like gasping for
> the finial breath of air, he becomes withdrawn once again. Torn from the
> life that he once had, he now
> regressses back to his hidious self.
> 
> c.pesonen
> small note... cindy tries creative writing...pain lives with in us all to
> some degree, the answer lies in human kindness, to be shared and for all of
> us to try to understand.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

so does this mean poetry submissions are now accepted on bungi<vbg> my
OTHER creative outlet besides glass......
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 01:34:07 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Shoot 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:57:04 -0700 (PDT)
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>To: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
>From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
>Subject: Re:  
>Cc: Ah shoot!
>
>
>Dani, my friend, you do not know me!
>But I must speak from the heart.
>
>It is so hard to speak to many that have college degrees and I have not.
>I speak from the gut.
>It's not a matter, of whom.
>It's a matter of what.
>Hurt does not change beyound degrees.
>Hurt is always hurts.
>And I do not give a royal (you know who) to what it is that says "hurt is
what it is to be described.
>
>Pain comes in ways.
>Only to be shared.
>Only to be asked...be kind.
>Cindy
>
>>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 02:06:22 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re:Input....Input...Input
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:15:21 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep10.171521.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Humm, looks like I better pull out that Inland arrowhead grinder again
this week.  O.k. everyone in my vicinity come over for popcorn and vino'
and I'll give you all some tech tips on Saturday night. Guess without
someone to save Patrick's roses it will be one of those Bio-less nights.

P.S. You won't be charged for supplies but you will have to bring your
own camouflage gear and nippers.

See you then,

Pam *sm*

*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 02:19:07 1998
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X-Path: hitel.net!mijingls
From:     6365.mijingls@hitel.net
To:       6365.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject:  New business proposal !! [glass products] -21536
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
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 DEAR SIRS

 Enclosed please find our catalogue which show only parts of our lines
 We have handled last six years.
 Please let us know which other lines your interested in our lines.


                        Our Main Glass Products                  
                       =========================

 Glass Door for Micro wave oven.        Self Glass for Refrigerator.
 Flat Glass for Copy Machine& Scanner.  Glass for Monitor Shadow Mask.
 Glass for Gas oven range.              Glass for Ship's Pivoted Window.
 Glass for Furniture.                   Glass for Kitchen's Furniture.
 Glass Art Glass.                       Deco Glass(Wall, etc)&Pattern Glass
 Glass for Audio.                       Glass for Display.
 Glass for Showcase.


  We wish to give you our best service in dealing with any our items.
  your very truly.
 
  Director  JOSEPH LEE

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 715-6, Gojan-Dong,Namdong-Gu,Ichon, Korea
 E-mail : mijingls@hitel.net  http://hitel.net/~MIJINGLS
 Tel: 82-32-815-8111 Fax : 82-32-815-8114
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 03:43:21 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Health and Safety
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:33:39 +0000
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Hi all,
I don't know how many of you will remember, but a couple of years ago 
I had cause to turn to Bungi in respect of a friend of mine, who had 
to take early retirement on grounds of (occupational) ill health. She 
was Head of an Art Department at a High School here in UK, but 
contracted occupational asthma. The helpfulness, information, 
kindness and encouragement I/we then received from Monona appeared 
endless. It was in large part due to her that I/we were able to take 
my friend's School and the Social Security Dept here in UK to court 
and win. Monona is blunt and forthright, but - as someone said - one 
doesn't shoot the messenger.
Part of her bluntness, I came to learn, was her passion that not 
enough is done to safe-guard the health and safety of workers in the 
arts, crafts and theatre industry. So with her, one sort of takes the 
rough with the smooth. She certainly doesn't "mess about". During 
this period, she was constantly available for me, however busy she 
was and she also snail-mailed me masses of written material.

....Just thought I'd post a little reminder......
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 04:09:38 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Glass@bungi.com'" <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: mea culpa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:19:42 -0400
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For my part, even us non-members enjoyed the IGGA info memos.

LInda



Dani said:

Are there really
that many bungians against =

posting the IGGA info memos????
I thought most of us were members =

of IGGA anyway... maybe I'm wrong
there.  =



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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 05:11:05 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:36:55 +0000
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> Albert, you owe no one an apology, you were not rude! However, you do
> seem to be saying that as long as one is acting as a teacher it's ok to
> be rude.

I don't think I've said that Monona is rude. She's blunt and 
to-the-point, does not coddle peoples' fantasies about their health, 
tells them the facts without embellishment, hates the fact that many 
(most?) manufacturers and distributors are reluctant (or refuse) to 
pass along health information about the products they sell. Etcetera.

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 05:41:30 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mea culpa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:55:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.3551.0>
References: <<1998Sep10.1701.0>>
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Amen!  Thank you Dani!

I don't spend a lot of time on the internet either, but Albert's
reminders gave me that little prod to go look.  I stopped to go look at
the address he posted yesterday and really enjoyed it.  Let's face it,
there's so much junk on the net, I'm more likely to look if someone'
who's opinion I respect, reccomends a site.  Otherwise, you can wade
through junk for the rest of your life.

I thought Len was the only one against the IGGA postings.  (I don't
remember anyone else who voiced an opinion that was opposed.)  Well, he
got what he wanted, spoiled it for the rest of us, and he left.  What
about a vote?  I'd be happy to tally votes.

Jerri


On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:00:01 -0400 "Michael J. Greer"
<GreerStudios@compuserve.com> writes:
>Well, Albert, I must tell you that
>I miss getting the Guild posts on
>this forum....  can't keep up with =
>
>the latest because I just don't take
>the time to explore the Internet
>very much.... don't even check my
>own web site!  Are there really
>that many bungians against =
>
>posting the IGGA info memos????
>I thought most of us were members =
>
>of IGGA anyway... maybe I'm wrong
>there.  =
>
>
>And, while we're on the subject,
>isn't the next Common Ground edition
>about due?  I always look forward to
>receiving mine.  =
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer
>Greer Gallery & Studios
>http://www.igga.org/greer/   =
>
>
>----
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>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 05:58:48 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: IGGA info memos
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:42:24 +0000
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> For my part, even us non-members enjoyed the IGGA info memos.

I'm glad you did, but out of deference for those who didn't (and 
because I was beat up the side o' the head a bit), I stopped sending 
them to the group.

However, later today you'll be able to go to the Guild's web site at
http://www.igga.org/
and click on the BUNGI icon (where we recommend this group as one of 
the liveliest and friendliest and most helpful we know of). On that 
same page, there'll be a signup button for the Guild's online memos. 
That way, even non-members can get them.

Members get them automatically, of course.

Albert

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 07:16:34 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CBH861
From: CBH861@aol.com
To: pkelly@n-link.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Input ... Input ... Input
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:28:57 EDT
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In a message dated 9/11/98 2:03:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pkelly@n-link.com
writes:

<< I need bios for this Saturday's posting. Where are all of the lurkers?
 I'm getting desperate enough to post the bios of the dogs and cats again.
 Quick, I need help. I can feel the drool of a Sheepdog on my neck. Easy
 Toby, easy. >>


I'm new to the group and I don't understand what the big thing is about the
bios.  Can you help me out?

Thanks
Claire
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 07:30:48 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mea culpa
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:52:23 +0000
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> I thought Len was the only one against the IGGA postings.  (I don't
> remember anyone else who voiced an opinion that was opposed.)  Well, he
> got what he wanted, spoiled it for the rest of us, and he left.  What
> about a vote?  I'd be happy to tally votes.

I can't remember myself who all was anti-memo. My bruises soon 
healed, however. <g>

The form is up now. Go to
http://www.igga.org
Click on the bungi button in the upper right-hand corner.
That will bring up signups for both bungi and IGGA.

Anyone who wants the memos can request them that way. Nobody who 
doesn't want them will get them. Very orderly and clean. <s>

By the way, this was just put up, hasn't been tested, although I have 
every confidence it'll work just fine. Morale is high.

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 08:19:20 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CD61DDFAD93079E31FE36F68"
Subject: test was: New business proposal !! [glass products] -21536]
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:35:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.63534.0>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------CD61DDFAD93079E31FE36F68
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I guess everyone else got this? I think my isp is broken, I can get
mail, but my outging seems broken

6365.mijingls@hitel.net wrote:
> 
>  DEAR SIRS
> 
>  Enclosed please find our catalogue which show only parts of our lines
>  We have handled last six years.
>  Please let us know which other lines your interested in our lines.
> 
>                         Our Main Glass Products
>                        =========================
> 
>  Glass Door for Micro wave oven.        Self Glass for Refrigerator.

-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel
--------------CD61DDFAD93079E31FE36F68
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From: 6365.mijingls@hitel.net
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject:  New business proposal !! [glass products] -21536
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
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 DEAR SIRS

 Enclosed please find our catalogue which show only parts of our lines
 We have handled last six years.
 Please let us know which other lines your interested in our lines.


                        Our Main Glass Products                  
                       =========================

 Glass Door for Micro wave oven.        Self Glass for Refrigerator.
 Flat Glass for Copy Machine& Scanner.  Glass for Monitor Shadow Mask.
 Glass for Gas oven range.              Glass for Ship's Pivoted Window.
 Glass for Furniture.                   Glass for Kitchen's Furniture.
 Glass Art Glass.                       Deco Glass(Wall, etc)&Pattern Glass
 Glass for Audio.                       Glass for Display.
 Glass for Showcase.


  We wish to give you our best service in dealing with any our items.
  your very truly.
 
  Director  JOSEPH LEE

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 715-6, Gojan-Dong,Namdong-Gu,Ichon, Korea
 E-mail : mijingls@hitel.net  http://hitel.net/~MIJINGLS
 Tel: 82-32-815-8111 Fax : 82-32-815-8114
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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--------------CD61DDFAD93079E31FE36F68--


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 08:27:43 1998
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From: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Test
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:57:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.65739.0>
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Hi, everyone.

This is a test of sending a message to glass@bungi.com from
http://www.igga.org/

Albert


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 10:29:48 1998
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X-Path: earthlink.com!rpetras
From: "Robyn Petras" <rpetras@earthlink.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: pattern ideas
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:44:37 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.84437.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi! I am new to the group and am enjoying reading everyone's posts.
Compared to most, I am new to the art of stained glass.  After teaching
elementary school for 9 years, my fight against cystic fibrosis forced me to
leave the classroom.  Since then, I have taken on the art of stained glass
making.  My dad, glass teacher, learned about 5 years ago.  He gave me
intro lessons.  I have learned as I make new projects and mistakes.

My hobby has turned into a business.  i gave away so many gifts to my 12
doctors that the orders started coming.  I have been working on 14 pieces
for Children's Hospital in Columbus,OH for over a year.  I am thankful that
my creative energy can be put to use in my studio if not in the classroom!
It is also fun talking to my dad about glass projects and ideas.

I am going to make a memorial piece for Children's Hospital dedicated to my
friend.  The theme I would like to work with is people-the diversity of
people.  I am not a designer.  Does anyone have any pattern ideas on this
topic.  I don't recall seeing anteing of this theme.  Thanks in advance for
your ideas.
Robyn



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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 10:51:11 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <CBH861@aol.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Input ... Input ... Input
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 98 11:44:49 -0400
Message-ID: <199809111548.LAA26544@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk


Claire wrote:
>I'm new to the group and I don't understand what the big thing is about the
>bios.  Can you help me out?

Hi Claire,

Each one of us in the group has volunteered to submit a short bio of 
ourselves - just so the others know who we are, what we do, etc. It's 
been fun to know the others on the list. Each weekend Patrick posts two 
of these for the whole group; so far we've had about 40 or 50 and we all 
find it enjoyable.

Your bio would be most welcome.
No need for formality, just write something to tell us who you are.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 13:26:58 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: socent.org!atf
From: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: Robyn Petras <rpetras@earthlink.net>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: pattern ideas
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:56:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.115649.0>
References: <<1998Sep11.84437.0>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

I think coloring books will be a source for diversity in kids. I work for a
company that trains & employs persons with disabilities & have done both our
company newsletter as well as a community newsletter which is veeerry diverse. I
had checked with all kinds of clip art services etc. and the coloring books had
a better composition for showing all ways of working together. Good luck
I am also new to this group and have been lurking and learning all kinds of
things and have visited many new sites. In one week I've been able to put works
of art with members of this group. So much talent at one place is fantastic!!

Robyn Petras wrote:

> Hi! I am new to the group and am enjoying reading everyone's posts.
> Compared to most, I am new to the art of stained glass.  After teaching
> elementary school for 9 years, my fight against cystic fibrosis forced me to
> leave the classroom.  Since then, I have taken on the art of stained glass
> making.  My dad, glass teacher, learned about 5 years ago.  He gave me
> intro lessons.  I have learned as I make new projects and mistakes.
>
> My hobby has turned into a business.  i gave away so many gifts to my 12
> doctors that the orders started coming.  I have been working on 14 pieces
> for Children's Hospital in Columbus,OH for over a year.  I am thankful that
> my creative energy can be put to use in my studio if not in the classroom!
> It is also fun talking to my dad about glass projects and ideas.
>
> I am going to make a memorial piece for Children's Hospital dedicated to my
> friend.  The theme I would like to work with is people-the diversity of
> people.  I am not a designer.  Does anyone have any pattern ideas on this
> topic.  I don't recall seeing anteing of this theme.  Thanks in advance for
> your ideas.
> Robyn
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 13:59:10 1998
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X-Path: earthlink.net!glasshack
From: Chris Orowitz <glasshack@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com, glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Moving Sale
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:21:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.122126.0>
Organization: The Glass Shack
Precedence: bulk

My husband I will be moving by the end of next month so I need to
"lighten our load" a bit.  I have a lot of glass, bevels, a grinder and
some other miscellaneous items for sale.  If you are interested email me
privately for more info.  Would prefer not to ship the larger pieces of
glass. Am located in the Massachusetts (west of Boston) area. Prices are
very good!
Chris Orowitz
glasshack@earthlink.net


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 13:59:23 1998
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X-Path: socent.org!atf
From: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:09:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.1294.0>
References: <<1998Sep10.111040.0>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

I have purchased the Diamond Max a couple of months ago & am having problems with
the sponge which spits out glass particles, water, the works. It gets on my arm &
front of apron. I never had this problem with a older Glastar grinder. Do you have
this problem? I called Mac in FL & he said to cut the sponge down a bit. Three
sponges & it is somewhat better but not as nice a not getting wet at all. I was
very lucky to be taught the basics from a store in VA that covered all the safety
issues. Including the recommendation of wearing closed shoes when cutting & long
pants when soldering. Now I have introduced other parts of the body to discuss.
I'll be back on Monday Ya'all have a great weekend.

leestat7 wrote:

> As far as I can tell, the very small glass dust that would be harmful
> for lungs is trapped in the water (My Diamond Max grinder may work
> different) The larger chips are too heavy to breath, and splash all
> over.  But Yes, a special respirator would be the safest way to go.  I
> can't stand wearing one, so only use it for the most critical
> applications.  (sifting casting investment plaster, working with acids,
> etc.)  I cast gold and silver also, and most of that work is far more
> dangerous.
>
> One thing we all should do, is take a shower and wash your hair after
> every studio session.  My hair gets washed a lot. :-)
>
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
>  http://www.igga.org/rainboe/
>
> CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Regarding the use of water to keep the dust down, next time you grind look
> > carefully at your clothes and skin, notice the glittery coating?   If it all
> > over the outside of you, it must be inside too!  (The water cools the grinder
> > head and splashes glass laden water onto you too)
> >
> > Glad to see the health related issued discussed here.
> >
> > You guys are great.
> >
> > Pat
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 14:28:46 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: mea culpa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:43:28 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.64328.0>
References: <<1998Sep11.3551.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Me too, I miss the infor!!!!
Shirley B

jerri m Roey wrote:
> 
> Amen!  Thank you Dani!
> 
> I don't spend a lot of time on the internet either, but Albert's
> reminders gave me that little prod to go look.  I stopped to go look at
> the address he posted yesterday and really enjoyed it.  Let's face it,
> there's so much junk on the net, I'm more likely to look if someone'
> who's opinion I respect, reccomends a site.  Otherwise, you can wade
> through junk for the rest of your life.
> 
> I thought Len was the only one against the IGGA postings.  (I don't
> remember anyone else who voiced an opinion that was opposed.)  Well, he
> got what he wanted, spoiled it for the rest of us, and he left.  What
> about a vote?  I'd be happy to tally votes.
> 
> Jerri
> 
> On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:00:01 -0400 "Michael J. Greer"
> <GreerStudios@compuserve.com> writes:
> >Well, Albert, I must tell you that
> >I miss getting the Guild posts on
> >this forum....  can't keep up with =
> >
> >the latest because I just don't take
> >the time to explore the Internet
> >very much.... don't even check my
> >own web site!  Are there really
> >that many bungians against =
> >
> >posting the IGGA info memos????
> >I thought most of us were members =
> >
> >of IGGA anyway... maybe I'm wrong
> >there.  =
> >
> >
> >And, while we're on the subject,
> >isn't the next Common Ground edition
> >about due?  I always look forward to
> >receiving mine.  =
> >
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >Dani Greer
> >Greer Gallery & Studios
> >http://www.igga.org/greer/   =
> >
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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�
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 14:58:46 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: pkelly@n-link.com
Subject: Re: Artist needs help
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:49:26 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.194926.0>
References: <<1998Sep9.172722.0>>
Precedence: bulk


On Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:27:22 -0500 "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com> writes:
>One of our fellow bungarians (Susan Bloch-Welliver, bio #17)  wrote me 
>this
>short bio. But it struck me that instead of a bio it is a request for
>assistance in case it is needed. Contact her directly if you can help
>BlochStudio@EarthCorp.com
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>Hi,
>I am also a glass artist.  I read your bio with interest sometime ago. 
> I
>was on the list but seem to have been disconnected when I had problems 
>with
>my server.
>
>I live in Elmira, NY & have just finished a commission that my husband 
>and I
>were to install in Boca Raton.
>I was to be leaving in a couple of weeks to go to Florida.  Within the 
>last
>3 weeks, my mother came down with cancer
>and it's been snowballing.  It started with a tiny lump that wasn't 
>supposed
>to be cancer. Then it was self contained. Then a lumpectomy. Then a
>mastectomy and she was to just be dealing with phsycial therapy. Now 
>it
>seems it's
>in her lymph nodes and she's beginning chemotherapy and other 
>treatment.
>I'm planning to go be with her in NJ as soon as I finish packing the 
>glass
>for shipping.  My husband has arranged to go with as friend to install 
>the
>window.
>Neither of them are glass artists.  I'm hoping there's a way I can 
>stay with
>my mother rather than go.
>
>I'm looking for a glass artist in the vicinity of the installation 
>that my
>husband can hire in the case of a problem.
>
>I'm wondering if you have any experience with replacing broken glass 
>in a
>stained glass window in case it arrives
>damaged in any way.  If not, can you recommend anyone?
>If need be, I will go to Florida to do this, but if I could find 
>someone
>competent it would be much more helpful.
>
>If you feel this is something you can do, great.
>If not, that's ok, too.  I'm sure there must be someone around there 
>that
>could help if need be.
>
>Thank you for your time.
>
>Susan Bloch-Welliver
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>Patrick
>Roses and Rainbows
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


First let me say I am very sorry to hear about your mothers illness, my
prayers are with you.
Several months ago I corresponded with a women on this list that was from
Delray Beach, Florida which is the next town over from Boca Raton.  I
don't remember her name and my harddrive was replaced since then and I
lost all my old files.  Tiffinay Studios maybe?  Does that sound familiar
to anyone?  She works out of her home but she sounded like a professional
to me.  Maybe if someone knows who I am talking about they can get you
her email address, I know she is a bungian so sooner or later she'll read
this note.
Good luck to you and your family.
And to whomever it was from Cinnicinati and offered to go, you must be
one beautiful person!  You really give hope in the human spirit, thanks.

Back to lurking.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 18:05:02 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: mea culpa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:40:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.164012.0>
Precedence: bulk

You're right, Jerri, it was Len and
a few others who were so rabid =

about spam that they even threw
IGGA's memos into the same =

garbage pail.  I, for one, really =

enjoyed any infomercials as long
as they related to glass.  I appreciate
Jim Matthews posting the latest
Spectrum updates... wish some of
the other manufacturers would do =

the same.  I always love hearing
from Charles and W-C, and while
we're on the subject, whatever =

happened to stainedglassbiz?
Having had time to check their
site in eons!  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 19:06:29 1998
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From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers)
To: "glass@ bungie.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: confused
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:37:29 -0500
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Daniel,
I'm confused. I don't know where to send my submissions for the artists
gallery. Your post gives one adddress and the instructions give another.
Which one is right?
Nelda

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 19:51:01 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Nothing to do with Glass-Joke
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:53:34 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.115334.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

(This joke was sent to me today. I took the liberty of changing the
names just to give you all a laugh, this was not written by Patrick)


NOTES FROM AN INEXPERIENCED CHILI TASTER NAMED PATRICK

"Recently, I was honored to be selected as an Outstanding Famous
Celebrity
in Texas and, therefore, to be a judge at a chili cook-off (because no
one
else wanted to do it...also, the original person called in sick at the
last
moment and I happened to be standing there at the judge's table asking
directions to the beer wagon when the call came).
I was assured by the other two judges that the chili wouldn't be all
that
spicy, and besides they told me I could have free beer during the
tasting. I
accepted this as being one of those burdens you endure when you're an
internet writer, therefore, known and adored by all!!"

SCORE CARDS FROM THE EVENT:
Chili #1: TOBY'S MANIAC MOBSTER MONSTER CHILI
Judge One: A little too heavy on tomato. Amusing kick.
Judge Two: Nice, smooth tomato flavor. Very mild.  PATRICK: Holy smokes,
what
is this stuff? You could remove dried paint from your driveway with it.
Took
me two beers to put the flames out.  Hope that's the worst one. These
people
are crazy.

Chili #2: ELISABETH'S AFTERBURNER CHILI
Judge One: Smoky (barbecue?) with a hint of pork. Slight jalapeno tang.
Judge Two: Exciting BBQ flavor; needs more peppers to be taken
seriously.
PATRICK: Keep this out of reach of children! I'm not sure what I am
supposed
to taste besides pain. I had to wave off two people who wanted to give
me
the Heimlich maneuver. Shoved my way to the front of the beer line. The
barmaid looks like a professional wrestler after a bad night.  She was
so
irritated over my gagging sounds that the snake tattoo under her eye
started
to twitch. She has arms like Popeye and a face like Winston Churchill. I

will NOT pick a fight with her.

Chili #3: ALBERT'S FAMOUS BURN DOWN THE BARN CHILI Judge One: Excellent
firehouse chili! Great kick. Needs more beans.  Judge Two: A beanless
chili,
a bit salty; good use of red peppers.  PATRICK: This has got to be a
joke.
Call the EPA. I've located a uranium spill! My nose feels like I have
been
sneezing Drano. Everyone knows the routine by now and got out of my way
so I
could make it to the beer wagon. The barmaid pounded me on the back. Now
my
backbone is in the front part of my chest. She said her friends call her

"Sally".  Probably, behind her back, they call her "Forklift".

Chili #4: P.J'S BLACK MAGIC
Judge One: Black bean chili with almost no spice. Disappointing.  Judge
Two:
Hint of lime in the black beans. Good side dish for fish or other mild
foods. Not much chili.
PATRICK: I felt something scraping across my tongue but was unable to
taste
it.  Sally was standing behind me with fresh refills so I wouldn't have
to
dash over to see her. When she winked at me her snake sort of coiled and

uncoiled...it's kinda cute!

Chili #5: DANI'S LEGAL LIP REMOVER
Judge One: Meaty, strong chili. Cayenne peppers freshly ground adding
considerable kick. Very impressive!
Judge Two: Chili using shredded beef; could use more tomato. Must admit
the
cayenne peppers make a strong statement.  PATRICK: My ears are ringing
and I
can no longer focus my eyes. I belched and four people in front of me
needed
paramedics. The contestant seemed hurt when I told her that her chili
had
given me brain damage. Sally saved my tongue by pouring beer directly on
it
from a pitcher. Sort of irritates me that one of the other judges asked
me
to stop screaming.

Chili #6: MIKE'S VERY VEGETARIAN VARIETY
Judge One: Thin yet bold vegetarian variety chili. Good balance of spice
and
peppers.
Judge Two: The best yet. Aggressive use of peppers, onions and garlic.
Superb.
PATRICK: My intestines are now a straight pipe filled with gaseous
flames.
No one seems inclined to stand behind me except Sally.
I asked if she wanted to go dancing later.

Chili #7: SUSAN'S SCREAMING SENSATION CHILI Judge One: A mediocre chili
with
too much reliance on canned peppers.
Judge Two: Ho-Hum. Tastes as if the chef threw in canned peppers at the
last
moment. I should note that I am worried about Judge #3. He appears to be
in
a bit of distress.
PATRICK: You could put a hand grenade in my mouth and pull the pin and I

wouldn't feel it! I've lost the sight in one eye and the world sounds
like
it is made of rushing water. My clothes are covered with chili which
slid
unnoticed out of my mouth at some point. Good, at autopsy they'll know
what
killed me. Go Sally, save yourself before it's too late. Tell our
children
I'm sorry I wasn't there to conceive them. I've decided to stop
breathing,
it's too painful and I'm not getting any oxygen anyway. If I need air,
I'll
just let it in through the hole in my stomach. Call the X-Files people
and
tell them I've found a super nova on my tongue.

Chili #8: GLENNA'S MOUNT SAINT CHILI
Judge One: This final entry is a good, balanced chili, neither mild nor
hot.
Sorry to see that most of it was lost when Judge #3 fell and pulled the
chili pot on top of himself.
Judge Two: A perfect ending. This is a nice blend chili, safe for all,
not
too bold but spicy enough to declare its existence.  PATRICK: Momma??!!




Have a great weekend everyone

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 20:08:40 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Input ... Input ... Input
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:07:31 -0400
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I did my bio, but I could make one up (after all, I used to write for True
Stories).  But my dog doesn't do glass, talented as she is, but she does look
at it occasionally.

Dorothy K

Pat Kelly wrote:

> I need bios for this Saturday's posting. Where are all of the lurkers?
> I'm getting desperate enough to post the bios of the dogs and cats again.
> Quick, I need help. I can feel the drool of a Sheepdog on my neck. Easy
> Toby, easy.
>
> Patrick
> Roses and Rainbows
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 23:25:21 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Not this week Toby
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:35:08 -0500
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There will be no dining on Irish butt steak this week Toby. Some kind souls
have submitted their bios. I guess you'll have to settle for fish fingers. I
still haven't figured out what kind fish have fingers or whether they have
opposing thumbs. It must be one of those nuclear waste fisheries or maybe
its a French delicacy (or Swedish).

Anyway, stand by for the bios.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 01:07:36 1998
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X-Path: flash.net!cat13
From: Carol <cat13@flash.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: lead absorption through skin
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:28:49 +0000
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Evening all -

All this talk about inhaling glass dust and lead fumes made me wonder if I
am the only one who worries that I can absorb lead through my skin.  I hold
my spool of solder with one hand while soldering, and since I think I'm
usually stupid enough already :) I wear rubber surgical gloves when I
solder.  Does anyone else do something like this? 

-Carol

"I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious
cult." - Rita Rudner




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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 01:37:49 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Nothing to do with Glass-Joke
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 98 00:41:21 -0400
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Pam, thanks for a great laugh on a tired Friday night!
Patrick, looking forward to at least TWO bios tomorrow! (chili no excuse)
I can hear Toby's growls all the way over here.
Suzanne

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 03:40:39 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 05:47:18 +0000
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> All this talk about inhaling glass dust and lead fumes made me wonder if I
> am the only one who worries that I can absorb lead through my skin. 


Yes, you can (and do).  Lead may be absorbed through
     the skin, the lungs, or through the gastrointestinal (GI) tract.
     The bulk of lead absorption is through the GI route in the
     pediatric population. Children absorb up to 50% of ingested lead,
     whereas adults absorb only 5-10% of ingested lead. 

Wearing rubber gloves isn't necessary. Washing your hands thoroughly 
is important and, of course, you shouldn't smoke or eat while working 
with lead ... hand to mouth effect.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 04:20:28 1998
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Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:57:27 +0100
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At 23:28 11/09/98 +0000, Carol wrote:

>All this talk about inhaling glass dust and lead fumes made me wonder if I
>am the only one who worries that I can absorb lead through my skin.  I hold
>my spool of solder with one hand while soldering, and since I think I'm
>usually stupid enough already :) I wear rubber surgical gloves when I
>solder.  Does anyone else do something like this? 
>
Yes, Carol, we always use a non-greasy barrier cream and insist our students
use it during classes.

Elizabeth Law (Bournemouth Stained Glass)
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 04:35:31 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: IGGA Memos
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:31:02 +0000
Message-ID: <199809121036.LAA26930@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
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Yep, I enjoyed the memos too. Have already been hot-foot to IGGA site 
to put my name down, even though I'm not a paid-up member. What I 
also enjoy very much is to be able to "share" in some of the 
excellent articles which the Common Ground so altruistically allows 
me to read on the WEB.  I call that generosity. 

my 2 cents worth
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Jerri wrote:
> I don't spend a lot of time on the internet either, but Albert's
> reminders gave me that little prod to go look.  I stopped to go look at
> the address he posted yesterday and really enjoyed it.  Let's face it,
> there's so much junk on the net, I'm more likely to look if someone'
> who's opinion I respect, reccomends a site.  Otherwise, you can wade
> through junk for the rest of your life.
> 
> I thought Len was the only one against the IGGA postings.  (I don't
> remember anyone else who voiced an opinion that was opposed.)  Well, he
> got what he wanted, spoiled it for the rest of us, and he left.  What
> about a vote?  I'd be happy to tally votes.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 05:15:22 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
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> 
> Claire wrote:
> >I'm new to the group and I don't understand what the big thing is about the
> >bios.  Can you help me out?
> 
> Hi Claire,
> 
> Each one of us in the group has volunteered to submit a short bio of 
> ourselves - just so the others know who we are, what we do, etc. It's 
> been fun to know the others on the list. Each weekend Patrick posts two 
> of these for the whole group; so far we've had about 40 or 50 and we all 
> find it enjoyable.
> 
> Your bio would be most welcome.
> No need for formality, just write something to tell us who you are.
> 
Yep, and if you don't,  there is a ferocious, hungry and vicisous Old 
English Sheepdog, called TOBY who would just LOVE tro have a bit of 
Patrick's legs for breakfast ( supper...... hmmmm another part may 
be....)    :->
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 05:28:13 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Nothing to do with Glass-Joke
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Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:53:06 +0000
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Thanks Pamela,
Laughed so much, the tears were rolling down my face, all over the 
key-board.
Needed that on a wet "grizzly" autumn day!
Take care now!
Keep taking the medicine, Patrick!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> (This joke was sent to me today. I took the liberty of changing the
> names just to give you all a laugh, this was not written by Patrick)
> 
> 
> NOTES FROM AN INEXPERIENCED CHILI TASTER NAMED PATRICK
 
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 05:48:53 1998
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 07:24:27 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.112427.0>
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Hi Carol and Bungians,

Yes, you can absorb lead from solder thru your skin.  I always wear gloves
(pair) while soldering and even during the clean-up.  Hated it in the
beginning, but have gotten accustomed to them.  I always get gloves with the
tightest fit to get the most possible flexibility.

Lenore
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 07:13:34 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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There once was an Old English "mutt"
who sat lusting for old Irish butt.
Said some strange geriatric,
'n then proffered this Patrick
"The two of you ought to get wed!"
Well, that's one of the ways to get fed!

I have steak once a year
washed down with a beer
and the sniff of it still with me lingers.
If as wife I thee take
you'll end up as my steak
since I fancy a change from fish-fingers!

Canine Anon.

thread:
> Cindy,
> 
> Patrick & E going to wed?? Does the term "Northern Ireland" ring a bell? How
> about  " Nuclear Holocaust"? (LMAO).
> 

> 
> >We have heard tales!!!
> >Alot of tales ,....many amuse us, but do not belong and wish to know more!!
> >Are Patrick and E going to wed?
> >If not does the dog wed?
> >Hmmm, Cindy.
> >
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 09:33:02 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Not this week Toby (fish fingers)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 08:46:26 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.14626.0>
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What part of the chicken do the nuggets come from?

Been quiet on the lamp information front. No questions....

Did enjoy the parody.

enjoy, H



weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 10:05:04 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:18:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.81813.0>
References: <<3.0.5.32.19980911232849.007c6100@pop.flash.net>>
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Carol wrote:
> 
> Evening all -
> 
> All this talk about inhaling glass dust and lead fumes made me wonder if I
> am the only one who worries that I can absorb lead through my skin.  I hold
> my spool of solder with one hand while soldering, and since I think I'm
> usually stupid enough already :) I wear rubber surgical gloves when I
> solder.  Does anyone else do something like this?
> 
> -Carol
> 
> "I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious
> cult." - Rita Rudner
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


 i also wear gloves, but not for the fear of lead. the flux messes up my
hands, and that's why i wear the gloves. plus it helps prevents burns.

i always thought that lead was most quickly absorbed in the mouth.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 11:09:49 1998
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X-Path: cybersol.com!TWLARRY
From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry)
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:26:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.72649.0>
References: <<199809121219.IAA00867@vger.vgernet.net>>
Organization: Trade Winds
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

There are a couple of things that haven't been touched upon.  There are
supliments available to help rid the body of excess lead.  One is Apple
Pectin, and the other is Fundimental Sulfur.

I find the Apple Pectin is hard on my stomach but I can take it at
night. The Fundimental Sulfur has no side effect.  Another name for
Fundimental Sulfur is MSM.  These are all available at most health food
stores.

TWLARRY





Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> 
> > All this talk about inhaling glass dust and lead fumes made me wonder if I
> > am the only one who worries that I can absorb lead through my skin.
> 
> Yes, you can (and do).  Lead may be absorbed through
>      the skin, the lungs, or through the gastrointestinal (GI) tract.
>      The bulk of lead absorption is through the GI route in the
>      pediatric population. Children absorb up to 50% of ingested lead,
>      whereas adults absorb only 5-10% of ingested lead.
> 
> Wearing rubber gloves isn't necessary. Washing your hands thoroughly
> is important and, of course, you shouldn't smoke or eat while working
> with lead ... hand to mouth effect.
> 
> Albert
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 14:37:36 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:41:23 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.204123.0>
References: <<3.0.5.32.19980911232849.007c6100@pop.flash.net>>>
Precedence: bulk

What kind of gloves do you all wear?  I've never used gloves but now I'm
thinking I probably should?  Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Caren

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 15:45:24 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: mschatee@juno.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:50:14 -0400
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mschatee@juno.com wrote:
> 
> What kind of gloves do you all wear?  I've never used gloves but now I'm
> thinking I probably should?  Any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks,
> Caren
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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i've been using doctors type examination gloves, i get them from my
father.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 16:16:13 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bios of the week
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:19:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.121919.0>
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Its such a dismal day here I thought I would post 3 bios this week.

Also, it might keep the popcorn and wine crowd happy, Not to mention a well
know Swede and here companion from hell.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 16:32:23 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio #51 Caroline Lick
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:22:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.122243.0>
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Hi Everyone,

Although I don't post much, I've been thoroughly enjoying and learning from
all of those that do.  I thought it was time to send in my bio so that when
I do send the odd post, everyone will know who I am.

I live in a small town called Manotick, Ontario, Canada, about 10 minutes
away
from our Nation's Capital City, Ottawa.  I live with my husband and our two
pet bunnies.

I work at the National Research Council Canada in The Institute for
Chemical Process and Environmental Technology.  I am involved in research
in liquid separations using membrane technology.  We are mainly trying to
clean up other people's industrial waste (pulp and paper, mining, food
industry).  But, we have done some more interesting jobs like turning red
wine into white and clarifying beer.

Now, onto my glass life.  I started only about 3 years ago.  One of the
ladies from the church who works at one of the two studios in town, gave a
8 week evening course in the church basement to any members who wanted to
join in.  My Mom really wanted to go, and brought me along.  Mom stopped
after the 8 weeks, I'm still enjoying the hobby.  I have been working my
way through all the different methods and projects, trying to learn them
all.

The thing that I like best about doing stained glass is I find it a way to
relax.  I suffer from migraines and headaches, and if I have a headache,
sometimes going down to the shop will relieve some of the pain.  Maybe
concentrating on my cutting or grinding takes away any other worries I
might have.

I have no hope or desire to become professional in this hobby, but I love
making gifts for friends and family, and making my house dance with the
colours of the art.

Nice to meet you all!  And thanks for listening.

Carolyn



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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 16:47:25 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:25:26 EDT
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In a message dated 9/11/98 5:01:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, atf@socent.org
writes:

<< I have purchased the Diamond Max a couple of months ago & am having
problems with
 the sponge which spits out glass particles, water, the works. It gets on my
arm &
 front of apron. I never had this problem with a older Glastar grinder. Do you
have
 this problem >>

I have the Diamond Max also and I seem to recall it used to spit everything
all over me when it was new but now only spits to the rear, mostly on the
right side.  I don't think it's the sponge, since I just replaced mine, didn't
cut it down and it doesn't spit on me, only backward same as always.

Brenda Marhon
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 16:54:16 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio #52 Marti Woodard
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:38:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.123821.0>
Precedence: bulk

Since Patrick has threaten me if I don=92t get out of the Lurker mode, at
least for bio time, I will attempt to do so.

My name is Marti Woodward, I am on my way out of my 20=92s, live in Centr=
al
Texas and have been into stained glass since the mid =9180=92s. Stained g=
lass is
a medium that has kept my interest whereas oil painting, cross stitching,
and ceramics have fallen by the wayside. Once you start with stained glas=
s
it seems that you are hooked on this wonderful expression of the arts.

I am the wife of a retired Medical Service Corps Officer and traveled the
world with my husband (Woodie) for over 26 years. We have been married fo=
r
40 years and we have one human daughter, Vicki, and two canine sons, Will=
ie
(Mini Dachie) and Schnitzel. Willie is 7 years old and Schnitzel is Willi=
e=92s
son and is 3 months old.

Woodie has been very good about supporting me in my field with money and
support. He did balk a little when I bought an RBI Scroll Saw at a Glass
Show, and balked big time when I wanted to buy a plotter but all in all I
haven=92t missed out on much.

After retiring from the Army, we changed roles in our married life. Woodi=
e
now does the cooking and running while I work for 8-12 hours a day at gla=
ss.
He also finds time to work with amateur boxing as an AIBA Referee. It is
exciting to see him on ESPN2.
I took time off  a few months back in the Spring and attended Patrick=92s=
 Desk
Top Publishing  Course at our local college. I did learn a lot and use th=
at
knowledge in adapting my glass patterns to form some unusual designs. Dur=
ing
this time I learned of the Bungi group and felt like I knew many of you f=
rom
Pat=92s descriptions. The first thing I did after getting online was join=
 the
group. This is a major feat for me....I know little to nothing about
computers, but will learn. This group has been wonderful and I have enjoy=
ed
reading about the interaction among the members.

I teach Basic Stained Glass and a 3-D Angel class through out the year.
Living near a large military installation gives me plenty of new students.
Our local Art Guild is very active and the first weekend in October we pl=
an
to have our first Renaissance Faire. So all in all this is active communi=
ty.

It is very enjoyable being a part of such a friendly group.

Marti Woodard
WoodMar Studios


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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 17:25:42 1998
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Subject: non glass 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:14:55 PDT
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Just in a real reflective mood, in a good book, thought I would share...

"I am in my thoughts just as I am in the world.  In the world, I am 
sometimes airbourne and sometimes resting on a chimney or a branch of a 
tree, and it is the same when I am in my thoughts.  Sometimes I land in 
these feathers and attend to my personal needs, but in my mind I often 
fly.  When I fly, my thoughts lift me above this one raven into the Sky, 
where i am simply Raven." Ken Carey, from Flat Rock Journal.

Scott*sm*

****************



Scott's Stained Glass Technical Corner
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/8791


Proud member of:

Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html


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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 17:42:07 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio # 53 Elizabeth (&Sam) Law
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:48:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.12480.0>
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OK you asked for it, Pat.

Fellow Bungians - be warned that this bio has been written over several
sessions, so please forgive if it is longwinded.  Any of you who know me
will have realised that I can never say in a few words what could be said
in many.
After leaving school I did most of a course in teacher training until
getting fed up with "Student Power" demonstrations messing up the
timetables, and I quit college in the late 60s to run away to London where
I worked happily for several years in merchant banking.  I joined the
part-time Army (Territorial Army) as a way of meeting people and having fun
weekends away on Salisbury Plain in the rain and occasional trips to Cyprus
and Germany at the taxpayers expense, but finally succumbed and applied for
a short service commission in the WRAC in 1975.  During the previous year
Sam was posted to our regiment as RSM, and we got together just before I
joined up for two years and he left the Army after 24 years service.
To fill in the time till I completed my service Sam got a job in the middle
East where he dwelt out in the desert while I played at soldiers as the
only female officer within a 100 mile radius.  Life was tough for one of us.
Anyway finally we married and both returned to UK in 1997, ending up by
buying a small sweets and toy shop in Bournemouth - the local "Tuck Shop".
I have always been into crafts, at that time mainly machine knitting,
bobbin lace, crochet and tatting, but Sam was the first into stained glass
when we came across the main importer of stained glass at a trade fair and
he fell in love.
Starting with a precut terrarium kit Sam taught himself the copper foil &
solder technique and started selling made up items to support this new
expensive habit.  Before long he discovered an old lead light worker who
was only too pleased to pass on the skills he had acquired through his
lifetime of making leaded windows in exchange for a supply of lampshades
and terrariums to give as presents to his family and friends.
It didn't take me long to get hooked too and, while Sam moved from our
garage to progressively larger ones to a workshop and then a large showroom
and workshop, I searched out specialised courses and experts in the world
of glass (painting, dalles-de-verre, pate-de-verre, sandblast and acid
etching) to widen our skills.
Sam was very taken with fusing and bending and built himself a couple of
kilns at which he spent many happy hours peering through the peepholes to
learn just what was going on in there - sometimes a work of art and
sometimes just one big blob or a thousand droplets :-(
We were also approached by enthusiasts wanting to learn how to make their
own stained glass projects and sort of drifted into teaching the craft and
- alongside that - stocking much more in the way of supplies to sell to our
students, and Sam was appointed as area distributor and authorised teaching
centre by the largest UK stained glass importer.
Eventually (as Sam often says) I saw we had a potential business that we
could live off and made a takeover bid.  We converted the sweetshop
premises into a retail stained glass shop in 1988, built a studio in the
garden and opened up as the first stained glass retailer in our area.
Several of our first browses expresses surprise that anyone could possibly
think they could make a living selling coloured glass, but we are still
here.
We found that there was quite a demand for restoration of damaged old
stained glass as well as new commissions.  We have had many interesting
stained glass commissions - mostly domestic but some church work (mainly
restoration), a set of new synagogue windows and even a new "Twin Town"
window for our local Town Hall.
Our largest sandblasting work was an 8 foot tall arched window depicting
the miracle of the marvelous catch of fish after the Crucifixion, and our
most unusual windows were to recreate two walls of windows in a modern
church in screenprinted enamelled and fired glass for which we had to find
a company that could cope with firing and toughening 88 panels of a metre
tall.
We can never complain of being bored as there is always something different
to be done.  Oh - I forgot to say that I am the computer operator in our
family and learned HTML so I could design our website and I try to keep it
up to date in my spare time
The one problem is that nowadays we have little time for our own "playing"
and experimenting with glass.
So what with selling supplies in the shop, designing and making stained
glass for other people and from next week teaching 4 Adult Education
evening classes (so far over 1,400 students through our classes) and two
Saturday classes for beginners at our studio don't be surprised that it has
taken me a long time to get around to sitting at this keyboard to write a
bio to keep Toby's teeth away from Patrick's leg.
I enjoy all the posts on bungi, and am constantly amazed by finding out how
helpful and supportive you all are to beginners and old timers alike.

Elizabeth


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 18:00:25 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, morn@tempest.nac.net
Subject: Gloves for handling lead and chemicals
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:22:31, -0500
Message-ID: <199809122322.TAA09948@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

> What kind of gloves do you all wear?  I've never used gloves but 
now I'm
> thinking I probably should?  Any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks,
> Caren

I use latex doctors exam gloves from Costco. Costs about $8.00 for 
two boxes of 100 each. Very good to use when leading, soldering and 
patinaing. Cheap, effective and easily thrown away after each use.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 20:04:11 1998
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From: CM Smith <cmsmith@fast.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: help with panels
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:51:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.175116.0>
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I have been doing stain glass for several years. I have mainly done
little projects, but have always wanted to work on panels.  I  have
several questions  I need answered before I can begin this venture. I
have  been  reading this group for sometime and feel there is a great
deal of experience  and some good advice being offered to so many
people.  I am confident that I can have my questions answered .  Well,
here are my questions. I will thank everyone in advance for there help.

- I like to work with copper foil, is it wise to do panels in foil
rather than came?

- If  I do them in foil, how big can I  make a panel?

- Re-bar/Re-strip - how big can a panel be before it needs
re-bar/re-strip?

- When do I use cement?

- Do you use cement and re-bar together?

- Can a panel have enough support with just re-bar/re-strip or after a
certain size is it wise to use a wood frame also?

Well, these are my questions.  Any advise I  receive would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks again for all you help.

Chris

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 20:28:54 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:55:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.155531.0>
References: <<1998Sep11.1294.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

K. See wrote:

Hi ,

I cut my own sponges, from big blocks of cellulose sponge I get from
Home Depot.  That way I can control how much or little water gets to
which grinding wheel.  I also attached a piece of tubing (also from Home
Depot) with a cinch type clamp (radiator type clamp) and run the hose
down to a 5 gallon bucket that sits on the floor.  Put a couple of
tablespoons of bleach in the water to prevent pond scum from growing.

Just a few tips--

Lee

> I have purchased the Diamond Max a couple of months ago & am having problems with
> the sponge which spits out glass particles, water, the works. It gets on my arm &
> front of apron. I never had this problem with a older Glastar grinder. Do you have
> this problem? I called Mac in FL & he said to cut the sponge down a bit. Three
> sponges & it is somewhat better but not as nice a not getting wet at all. I was
> very lucky to be taught the basics from a store in VA that covered all the safety
> issues. Including the recommendation of wearing closed shoes when cutting & long
> pants when soldering. Now I have introduced other parts of the body to discuss.
> I'll be back on Monday Ya'all have a great weekend.
> 
> leestat7 wrote:
> 
> > As far as I can tell, the very small glass dust that would be harmful
> > for lungs is trapped in the water (My Diamond Max grinder may work
> > different) The larger chips are too heavy to breath, and splash all
> > over.
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 22:09:51 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "CM Smith" <cmsmith@fast.net>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 98 23:17:04 -0400
Message-ID: <199809130320.XAA14138@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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Chris has several questions, which I will answer to the best of my 
ability:

>- I like to work with copper foil, is it wise to do panels in foil
>rather than came?
You can do your panels in foil; however it's not weatherproof so must be 
installed behind glass.

>- If  I do them in foil, how big can I  make a panel?
I've done as large as 29 x 42. Somebody else please?

>- Re-bar/Re-strip - how big can a panel be before it needs
>re-bar/re-strip?
Rule of thumb: over 4 square feet, use rebar/restrip.

>- When do I use cement?
With lead came only.

>- Do you use cement and re-bar together?
I think so! The cement is to weatherproof it, the rebar is to support it.

>- Can a panel have enough support with just re-bar/re-strip or after a
>certain size is it wise to use a wood frame also?
The frame could be zinc or lead or brass; my feeling is they should all 
be framed anyway in metal before wood framing if that is your choice.

Hope this is some help. I have not ventured into the world of lead except 
for suncatchers, so can't really help with that. Others can, however, 
particularly EliSabeth in UK, who works almost exclusively in lead.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 22:37:29 1998
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From: "Gerard" <harlquin@mpx.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: re: Lead problems
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:19:38 +1000
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.01938.0>
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I wonder if anybody had any thoughts about the anounts of lead in the
atmosphere due to the petrol additives. Isn't that more than you can collect
from handling lead cames and solder ?
Harlequin
www.surf.to/harlquin
discussion board at
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb131394

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 22:57:33 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re:Bio #52 Marti Woodward
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:16:34 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.141634.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

I have got to speak up on this lady here. And she just might kill me but
Marti your in Big Old Texas and I'm in little ole Washington so just try
and catch me!

Marti Woodward here is her page:
http://members.aol.com/Mar333Wood/WOODMAR.html

As we all see by the bios this week and as always the bungi group is
very, very talented. Never do we hear an ego trip by any author.

Marti is a highly talented lady who gives of herself always. She creates
beautiful art in stained glass and I am always impressed with her
awesome attitude, this is one great lady! (O.K. Marti, you can send me
that $5.00 bucks you promised me for writing this now *s*)

And Elizabeth! I know she has that awesome web site and I've lost it in
my bookmarks!! I would like to see that one again, please Elizabeth.

Thank you Patrick and Ladies for sharing!!

See you,

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 07:06:15 1998
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Subject: Re:  all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:24:08 EDT
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In a message dated 9/10/98 6:58:52 PM, CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:

>Regarding the use of water to keep the dust down, next time you grind look
>carefully at your clothes and skin, notice the glittery coating?   If it all
>over the outside of you, it must be inside too!

Sometimes I feel like I'm eating sand. Having a tendency to either stick my
tongue out or sing to myself when I'm concentrating on something, I've taken
to wearing a turtleneck (I have several that I've cut the sleeves out of for
summer) and pulling the collar up over my mouth when I'm doing a lot of
grinding.

I also like to have my grinder down low enough so I can look straight down on
the piece I'm grinding, which keeps me somewhat "out of the line of fire." (At
home I have it on a low table and inside an old aquarium turned on its side;
at Christie's I stand on a small step stool.)

Of course (as someone else pointed out) the stuff that can really hurt you is
the fine dust (which gets caught by the water), but the glittery grit can
cause problems too. Besides the obvious, like the stuff getting thrown in your
eyes by the grinder (pass the goggles, please!), there's the well-meaning
other half who takes a towel and tries to wipe your sparkly face. Mine tried
that exactly once, and I nearly gave the poor guy a heart attack when I
yelped, "DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!" I had to explain to him that he could
scratch up my face, knock a piece of grit into my eye, etc. He now knows that
he's not allowed to touch me until I've gotten cleaned up!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 07:52:09 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Johnny West
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:00:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep13.6012.0>
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone have Johnny West's address?  Is he still making frames?  I
tried to e-mail him, and it was returned.

Thanks,

Jerri

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 10:24:53 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: CM Smith <cmsmith@fast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:36:15 -0400
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Precedence: bulk

CM Smith wrote:
> 
> I have been doing stain glass for several years. I have mainly done
> little projects, but have always wanted to work on panels.  I  have
> several questions  I need answered before I can begin this venture. I
> have  been  reading this group for sometime and feel there is a great
> deal of experience  and some good advice being offered to so many
> people.  I am confident that I can have my questions answered .  Well,
> here are my questions. I will thank everyone in advance for there help.
> 
> - I like to work with copper foil, is it wise to do panels in foil
> rather than came?
> 
> - If  I do them in foil, how big can I  make a panel?
> 
> - Re-bar/Re-strip - how big can a panel be before it needs
> re-bar/re-strip?
> 
> - When do I use cement?
> 
> - Do you use cement and re-bar together?
> 
> - Can a panel have enough support with just re-bar/re-strip or after a
> certain size is it wise to use a wood frame also?
> 
> Well, these are my questions.  Any advise I  receive would be greatly
> appreciated. Thanks again for all you help.
> 
> Chris
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


foil can be used for tiny things are huge things. it all depends on the
deisgn you make, that will let you know if you need reinforcement or
not. foil does'nt need cement at the end. foil will give you more detail
flexibilty then came. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 12:22:38 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead absorption
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:09:11 +0000
Message-ID: <199809132142.RAA09793@vger.vgernet.net>
Precedence: bulk


> There are a couple of things that haven't been touched upon.  There are
> supliments available to help rid the body of excess lead.  One is Apple
> Pectin, and the other is Fundimental Sulfur.
> 
> I find the Apple Pectin is hard on my stomach but I can take it at
> night. The Fundimental Sulfur has no side effect.  Another name for
> Fundimental Sulfur is MSM.  These are all available at most health food
> stores. <


First of all, the supplements are not helping "rid the body of excess 
lead."  All lead is "excess" since there is no metabolic need for lead.  Any 
lead is too much lead.  And yet we are all carrying body burdens of lead at
something like 1000 times what our cave-dwelling ancestors bones disclose.  

The best way to reduce middle range and low level lead body burdens is to eat 
a good diet and let time do it.  It is also helpful to be sure the diet 
contains lots of calcium so that when lead leaves a bone, your body can 
replace it with calcium.

In addition, a slightly faster decline in lead body burden will be seen if 
vitamin C is used in large doses.  There are several other "natural" 
chelating agents, but they are VERY weak.   Natural chelating agents are 
analogous to going elephant hunting with a pea shooter.

The Fundamental Sulfur/MSM stuff bothers me.  Sulfur should not be ingested 
in the elemental state.  So one wonders what  "fundamental sulfur" is.  The 
term "fundimental" is not applicable to any compound of sulfur--only to 
particles such as protons, electrons, etc.  This "fundamental" term is 
obviously misapplied by some promoter of the product. 

And what does MSM stand for?  If you take it, you should know.

My advice is the same for all supplements and nutrients: don't go near them 
until you see a chemical formula and, if it is inorganic, a structural 
formula. Then look it up on your own before scarfing down the latest voodoo 
cure. 

In other words, don't ingest anything unless you know exactly what it is, 
what is known about its behavior in the body, and in what amount it is 
present in the supplement.  


Monona

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 12:43:13 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: Lead problems
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:09:11 +0000
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> I wonder if anybody had any thoughts about the anounts of lead in the
> atmosphere due to the petrol additives. Isn't that more than you can collect
> from handling lead cames and solder ? <

You are asking about one of the miracles wrought by the environmentalists.  
Since lead gasoline has been banned, the amount of lead in the dust and the 
average level of lead in the blood of children have simultaneously dropped 
dramatically.  Dust from petrol additives is no longer a major contributor to 
our body burdens of lead.

And anyone who would make the argument that stained glass sources are less 
important because there are other more important sources in the environment 
just doesn't understand the concept of the body burden.  The greater the 
pollution sources of lead, the more serious additional exposure from sources 
such as stained glass become.  

However, since Ethyl Corporation took both the Canadian and the U.S. 
Governments to court and won the right to distribute manganese 
gasoline additives, we may soon have toxic problems from over exposure to 
manganese.  The U.S. EPA in particular is on record saying there will be 
potentially serious health effects associated with widespread use of 
manganese gas additives.

Monona

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 12:56:58 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: CM Smith <cmsmith@fast.net>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: help with panels
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:50:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep13.105050.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi there Chris.  I'll give you my $.02 worth to your questions.

Message text written by CM Smith
>- I like to work with copper foil, is it wise to do panels in foil
rather than came?>

I also prefer copper foil to lead came.  90% of my panels are
done in copper foil, with a zinc or wooden frame.

- If  I do them in foil, how big can I  make a panel?

My largest copper foil panel is 6 feet long by 3 1/2 feet tall.
Biggest problem is turning it over during soldering, but you
will have that problem whether you're working in foil or lead.

- Re-bar/Re-strip - how big can a panel be before it needs
re-bar/re-strip?

If it's over 2 feet in any direction, it nees rebar or restrip.  In
copper foil, you use restrip (copper-plated brass) or Strong
Line (copper-plated steel).  These go between the foiled
pieces of glass prior to soldering, and become invisible
once the piece is soldered.  If you're doing lead work, you
will use rebar (external support bars soldered to the panel)
or restrip inserted into a hollow-heart came.

- When do I use cement?

Cement is used with lead work.  With lead you only solder the
joints, not the full line.  Hence you need cement to join the
glass to the lead came.  Cement is not normally used with
copper foil work at all.  Not even when you are framing a foil
panel in zinc or brass channel, since you will be soldering
each solder line which touches the framing.

- Do you use cement and re-bar together?

Yes, since you are by default working in lead.  Now, remember
that the term "cement" in lead work means the clay-like putty which
is mushed into the lead came after all the soldering is complete.
"Cement" does not mean the cement you use to patch your
sidewalk.  Rebar is used to provide additional support for the
panel.  Rebar extends beyond the width of the panel and into
the wooden or brick structure of the window frame itself.

- Can a panel have enough support with just re-bar/re-strip or after a
certain size is it wise to use a wood frame also?<

For regular panels (no pieces jutting out), framing in either zinc,
brass or wood is required once it gets beyond the suncatcher
stage, even if you use restrip or Strong Line (I'm assuming it's
a copper foil panel).  Try to talk your client into a wooden frame.
It's stronger.  If your designs feature irregular pieces jutting out,
then you need to "frame" it using copper wire wrapped and
soldered around the entire outside surface.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 13:56:38 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55
From: "Scott Floyd" <scottjf55@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: D-lead sopa
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:14:58 PDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep13.201458.0>
Precedence: bulk



  At work I use a soap called D-lead Soap.  I am not sure what the 
ingredients are but it is supposed to wash lead off of the hands after  
being exposed to it.  I will get back to you guys on the ingredients, 
does anyone else use this soap??  We ordered it from Northwest glass 
suppliers or Ed Hoy, I will get back on that too.   Hey did anyone try 
that baking soda and toothpaste concotion that is supposed to be a good 
substitute for flux???  Hmmm, gonna try that as soon as I get to the 
point of soldering something.  Got a lot to do and try so see ya!! 

Scott *sm*

********************

Scott's Stained Glass Technical Corner
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/8791

Proud member of:

Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 14:58:05 1998
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From: Mar333Wood@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com, Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Bio # 52
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:19:54 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep13.211954.0>
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Pam.....the check is in the mail.
The bios are a great ice breaker, I've enjoyed each and every one. Even set up
a folder for them so I could read about each person who asks/responds to the
bungi line.

There are many people to meet online and two of the first I met were Pam and
Scott. With their comments, my ego is soaring high.

This has been a wonderful way to get inspired, to break a dry creative spell,
to learn from each other by sharing ideas and knowledge and to enjoy visiting
other sites.  Keep those bios flowing to Pat.

Marti
Woomar Custom Stained Glass
Member of The Stained Glass Artists

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 15:29:18 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: CM Smith <cmsmith@fast.net>
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:08:16 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep13.23816.0>
References: <<1998Sep12.175116.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Sep12.175116.0@?>, CM Smith <cmsmith@fast.net> writes
..........

> Well,
>here are my questions. I will thank everyone in advance for there help.
>
>- I like to work with copper foil, is it wise to do panels in foil
>rather than came?
Depends  - on size, detail, purpose, location
>
>- If  I do them in foil, how big can I  make a panel?
others will tell you, but I would add that copper foil as a pieces of
primary glazing is not a good idea.  The characteristics of the
adhesives are such that they will not form a long-term barrier to water;
they also have little flexibility, which is important in the wind.
>
>- Re-bar/Re-strip - how big can a panel be before it needs
>re-bar/re-strip?
A general rule of thumb would be to say that any panel 24" - 36" wide
will need saddle bars or other external re-inforcement every 18".  If
internal reinforcement is used, it will need to be more frequent than
that, as the materials are not so strong
>
>- When do I use cement?
Whenever you use lead came, otherwise the thing rattles, and certainly
is not water or wind tight.
>
>- Do you use cement and re-bar together?
yes if the panel is big enough to require re-inforcement
>
>- Can a panel have enough support with just re-bar/re-strip or after a
>certain size is it wise to use a wood frame also?
Anything from 24" by 24" upwards will certainly need a framework in
which it should be put.  It does not have to be wood, could be zinc
(ugh!), steel, or a variety of metals 

These, of course, are (some) British views
Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 16:03:57 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: help with panels
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:27:28 +0000
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Well said Suzanne,
Couldn't have put it better myself!
Over here in UK, we rarely put leaded panels in anything other than 
lead H-frames, other than if it's  part of a much larger stained 
glass construction set into stone/masonry, when the lead-edges are 
set into  steel frame. Sorry, I'm expressing myself badly.....
The technique of using zinc instead of lead for the edging is 
something I have noticed is more popular in USA than here.
My Best
EliSabeth 'n Toby in UK

> The frame could be zinc or lead or brass; my feeling is they should all 
> be framed anyway in metal before wood framing if that is your choice.
> 
> Hope this is some help. I have not ventured into the world of lead except 
> for suncatchers, so can't really help with that. Others can, however, 
> particularly EliSabeth in UK, who works almost exclusively in lead.
> 
> Suzanne
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> 
> 
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 03:36:56 1998
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Subject: Re: Johnny West
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:03:53 EDT
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Jerri,
Here is Johnny's E-mail address.  Have corresponded with him just last week so
this address is current.  Good luck!   Address:  johnnyc@mercury.net
Lenore
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 06:28:22 1998
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From: Sue Prullage <stepsue@ezl.com>
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:44:46 -0600
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Pam,
	The possibilities for your panels are endless.  Children are my other
life work and I can tell you they love color.  You could do the nation
flowers or faces from different countries or flags from different
countries surrounding a large picture of a child.  If I can be of any
help please email me.
Sue
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 07:00:41 1998
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From: "Gerard" <harlquin@mpx.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: re: Lead problems
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:59:37 +1000
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well I can assure you that here in australia more than half the petrol we
use has lead additives (the other is called unleaded)
Harlequin
www.surf.to/harlquin
discussion board at
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb131394

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 09:03:20 1998
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From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry)
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: lead absorption: "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:15:37 -0400
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Organization: Trade Winds
Precedence: bulk

The following comments are taken from a book called "Prescription for
Nutritional Healing" by James F. Balch, M.D. and  Phyllis A. Balch,
C.N.C. 
I have cross-referenced this book many times with others and find it to
be true and accurate in every respect.

Monona wrote,
> First of all, the supplements are not helping "rid the body of excess
> lead."  All lead is "excess" since there is no metabolic need for lead.  Any
> lead is too much lead.  And yet we are all carrying body burdens of lead at
> something like 1000 times what our cave-dwelling ancestors bones disclose.
> 
> The best way to reduce middle range and low level lead body burdens is to eat
> a good diet and let time do it.  It is also helpful to be sure the diet
> contains lots of calcium so that when lead leaves a bone, your body can
> replace it with calcium.

First of all as you say all of us have a lead burden.  Many of us carry
a load far beyond what has been considered a safe lead burden.  From
what I have read this lead collects in our organs and nerve system and
little of it leaves the body of its own accord.  It will eventually
prevent the absorption of all essential minerals including calcium.

Few of us have a healthy diet, some 70% of our population is over
weight. Much of the food, due to processing and preseratives, are
nothing more than fillers offering little nutrition. 
> 
> In addition, a slightly faster decline in lead body burden will be seen if
> vitamin C is used in large doses.

While this is true the doses have to be in the 10,000 to 20,000 units
per day.  You have to take it till you get diarrhea to accomplish what
you are speaking of.
 
 There are several other "natural"
> chelating agents, but they are VERY weak.   Natural chelating agents are
> analogous to going elephant hunting with a pea shooter.

For the average hobbyist the pea shooter used on a daily basis should
keep lead at bay.

> 
> The Fundamental Sulfur/MSM stuff bothers me.  Sulfur should not be ingested
> in the elemental state.  So one wonders what  "fundamental sulfur" is.  The
> term "fundimental" is not applicable to any compound of sulfur--only to
> particles such as protons, electrons, etc.  This "fundamental" term is
> obviously misapplied by some promoter of the product.
> 
> And what does MSM stand for?  If you take it, you should know.

Sulfur is one of the minerals that our body needs.  "an acid forming
mineral that is part of the chemical structure of nethionine, cysteine,
taurine, and glutathione, sulfur disinfects the blood, resists bacteria,
and protects the protoplasm of cells.  It aids in oxidation reactions,
stimulates bile secretions in the liver, and protects against toxic
substances.  Because of its ability to protect against the harmful
effects of radiation and pollution, sulfur slows down the aging process
and extends life span.  It is found in hemoglobin and all body tissues
and is needed for the synthesis of collagen, which prevents dryness and
maintains elastin in the skin."
The liver is one of the places that lead collects and the stimulation of
bile secretion helps us get rid of it. Fundamental sulfur is a mix of
amino acids that create the sulfur needed by the body.  MSM is a brand
mame.
> 
> My advice is the same for all supplements and nutrients: don't go near them
> until you see a chemical formula and, if it is inorganic, a structural
> formula. Then look it up on your own before scarfing down the latest voodoo
> cure.
> 
> In other words, don't ingest anything unless you know exactly what it is,
> what is known about its behavior in the body, and in what amount it is
> present in the supplement.

All the supplements you take should be natural.  They cost a little more
but you know what you are getting and for the most part any that the
body does not need are excreted.  Many doctors are coming around to
vitamin therapy and no longer think of it as voodoo.  Its too bad your
not among them.

TWLARRY
> 
>
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 11:18:04 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:51:17 -0700
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References: <<1998Sep13.13248.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

My goodness.  Maybe you ought to get a Gladstar.   I sit at ground level
with mine.  It rarely spits  and when it does it is because there is too
much sediment in the reservior and needs to be cleaned.  And when it
does spit, it goes to the back and hits the gaurds.

Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 9/10/98 6:58:52 PM, CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >Regarding the use of water to keep the dust down, next time you grind look
> >carefully at your clothes and skin, notice the glittery coating?   If it all
> >over the outside of you, it must be inside too!
> 
> Sometimes I feel like I'm eating sand. Having a tendency to either stick my
> tongue out or sing to myself when I'm concentrating on something, I've taken
> to wearing a turtleneck (I have several that I've cut the sleeves out of for
> summer) and pulling the collar up over my mouth when I'm doing a lot of
> grinding.
> 
> I also like to have my grinder down low enough so I can look straight down on
> the piece I'm grinding, which keeps me somewhat "out of the line of fire." (At
> home I have it on a low table and inside an old aquarium turned on its side;
> at Christie's I stand on a small step stool.)
> 
> Of course (as someone else pointed out) the stuff that can really hurt you is
> the fine dust (which gets caught by the water), but the glittery grit can
> cause problems too. Besides the obvious, like the stuff getting thrown in your
> eyes by the grinder (pass the goggles, please!), there's the well-meaning
> other half who takes a towel and tries to wipe your sparkly face. Mine tried
> that exactly once, and I nearly gave the poor guy a heart attack when I
> yelped, "DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!" I had to explain to him that he could
> scratch up my face, knock a piece of grit into my eye, etc. He now knows that
> he's not allowed to touch me until I've gotten cleaned up!
> 
> Sparks
> ----
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:04:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.11429.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Elisabeth-

You're right, the technique of using
zinc borders is much more popular
in America.  Because zinc is more
rigid, there is the belief that it is stronger
than a lead border.  We don't necessarily
agree with that and, in our experience,
solder joints on zinc are much more
likely to fail than on lead.  And, of
course, there is that strange phenomenon
of the zinc raising the melting point of
the solder, which is a real pain if your =

soldering iron is NOT one of the beefier
(more expensive) ones!  Then, you =

can't get the iron to melt the solder and
wonder what the heck is going on!
You buy a new iron, you call the electrician
in - nothing helps!  Yikes!  It turns out
to be that blasted zinc border!  =


Can you tell we avoid zinc like the plague?!

;-)

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 14:56:25 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly
From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: mschatee@juno.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6C67835ECDE6294A4892C373"
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:14:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.131436.0>
References: <<1998Sep12.204123.0>>
Organization: Custom Art Glass Studio
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Caren. . .
I wear Nitrile gloves and love them.  They fit just like a second
skin and I find I work and do anything in them. . .almost forget
I have them on.  I get mine from Houston Stained Glass, but I
know they are sold at industrial supply places all over. Mine
are made by Best Products and they are blue.
                                        Nadine

> What kind of gloves do you all wear?  I've never used gloves but now
> I'm
> thinking I probably should?  Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
> Caren
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> ----
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begin:          vcard
fn:             Nadine Beth Schneider
n:              Schneider;Nadine Beth
org:            Nadine's Folly Art Glass Studio
email;internet: nadinesfolly@erols.com
title:          www.nadinesfolly.com
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
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--------------6C67835ECDE6294A4892C373--

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 15:26:44 1998
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X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:16:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.71641.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is the problem I'm having...

This is my first project...sigh

I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...

I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice with an
Exacto knife...
then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
mylar...now I
was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass and
even leave the mylar on while
I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I have
tried won't hold under the water...
the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.


I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape

Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)

and another generic double stick tape...

The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I should
just trace around the mylar
and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't see
the line on darker peices..
I've even thought about fingernail polish....

Could someone give me some advise on this...

I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried taping
the mylar peices the the glass
then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
remove the mylar and grind away any
places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry and
needed to be scraped away with
a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of grit...and
water right under the paint and it
floated away....!

I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
mess...

What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns to the
glass....

Thanks in advance....

Daniel









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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 16:26:45 1998
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From: "Ralph Rognstad Jr." <rognstad@dialnet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:39:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.123944.0>
References: <<1998Sep14.71641.0>>
Organization: Marvin's Brain
Precedence: bulk

I usually cut the pieces out of normal typing paper and glue them on
with a normal glue stick. After I'm finished cutting the pieces, I soak
them in water for a hour or so and the paper comes right off.

Daniel wrote:
> 
> This is the problem I'm having...
> 
> This is my first project...sigh
> 
> I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...
> 
> I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice with an
> Exacto knife...
> then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
> mylar...now I
> was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass and
> even leave the mylar on while
> I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I have
> tried won't hold under the water...
> the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.
> 
> I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape
> 
> Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)
> 
> and another generic double stick tape...
> 
> The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I should
> just trace around the mylar
> and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't see
> the line on darker peices..
> I've even thought about fingernail polish....
> 
> Could someone give me some advise on this...
> 
> I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried taping
> the mylar peices the the glass
> then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
> remove the mylar and grind away any
> places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry and
> needed to be scraped away with
> a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of grit...and
> water right under the paint and it
> floated away....!
> 
> I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
> mess...
> 
> What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns to the
> glass....
> 
> Thanks in advance....
> 
> Daniel
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 16:51:03 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura
From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: What I did on My Summer Vacation, or First Craft Show!
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:51:16 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.225116.0>
Precedence: bulk


Hi all, and first off thanks for all the great advice I got from those who
responed to my posts. The weekend was great! The greatist part of it (aside
fom the $), was the expierence itself - all the anticipation of wondering of
what people will think of my designs...I had four different people come back
on the second day for a 20 inch panel I sold the first day!- a great feeling -
and then seeing what moves and what doesn't, people admiring, meeting other
crafters was fun too - I really learned a lot and am surprised that it went
better than planned - I'm hooked!

Laura

P.S. - I used both the black and the white and it worked out great -
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 16:57:39 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Klmxklm
From: Klmxklm@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: D-lead sopa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:02:56 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.23256.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Scott:
I also use D-lead Soap -- obtainable from Alpine Stained Glass in San Diego.
Would like to know what it's made from.
"Mike" Mikolajczak
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 17:23:16 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Daniel <doverbay@csi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:10:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.151028.0>
References: <<1998Sep14.71641.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Daniel wrote:
> 
> This is the problem I'm having...
> 
> This is my first project...sigh
> 
> I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...
> 
> I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice with an
> Exacto knife...
> then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
> mylar...now I
> was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass and
> even leave the mylar on while
> I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I have
> tried won't hold under the water...
> the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.
> 
> I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape
> 
> Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)
> 
> and another generic double stick tape...
> 
> The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I should
> just trace around the mylar
> and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't see
> the line on darker peices..
> I've even thought about fingernail polish....
> 
> Could someone give me some advise on this...
> 
> I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried taping
> the mylar peices the the glass
> then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
> remove the mylar and grind away any
> places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry and
> needed to be scraped away with
> a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of grit...and
> water right under the paint and it
> floated away....!
> 
> I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
> mess...
> 
> What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns to the
> glass....
> 
> Thanks in advance....
> 
> Daniel
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


you'll want to use a pilot gold paint marker, ultra fine. this will show
up on all glass, and it will stay put. the myler may stick better if you
shoot some spray glue on it first. let it tack up then stick it to the
glass. i personally have never tried this, since i trace all my lines
right from the pattern in the first place.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 17:30:08 1998
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X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass
From: Molly Keys <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
To: Daniel <doverbay@csi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------44506966D81B1B5E1011014A"
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:04:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.13434.0>
References: <<1998Sep14.71641.0>>
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Daniel,
If you are not using a light box to trace onto the glass with a permanent
marker, then I suggest you go the local "Wal-Mart" and look in the school
supply section and get a glue stick.  I use one by Borden's and the color is
purple.  After I have cut out the piece whether by hand or using the saw I then
have to soak it in warm sudsy water to get the paper and glue off.   It will
hold the mylar.
Molly Keys

Daniel wrote:

> This is the problem I'm having...
>
> This is my first project...sigh
>
> I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...
>
> I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice with an
> Exacto knife...
> then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
> mylar...now I
> was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass and
> even leave the mylar on while
> I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I have
> tried won't hold under the water...
> the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.
>
> I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape
>
> Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)
>
> and another generic double stick tape...
>
> The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I should
> just trace around the mylar
> and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't see
> the line on darker peices..
> I've even thought about fingernail polish....
>
> Could someone give me some advise on this...
>
> I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried taping
> the mylar peices the the glass
> then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
> remove the mylar and grind away any
> places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry and
> needed to be scraped away with
> a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of grit...and
> water right under the paint and it
> floated away....!
>
> I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
> mess...
>
> What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns to the
> glass....
>
> Thanks in advance....
>
> Daniel
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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n:              Keys;Molly
org:            Molly's Stained glass
email;internet: MollysGlass@sprintmail.com
title:          Owner
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x-mozilla-html: FALSE
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--------------44506966D81B1B5E1011014A--

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 17:42:55 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:16:57 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.231657.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 9/14/98 4:03:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:

<<  Because zinc is more
 rigid, there is the belief that it is stronger
 than a lead border.  We don't necessarily
 agree with that and, in our experience,
 solder joints on zinc are much more
 likely to fail than on lead.  And, of
 course, there is that strange phenomenon
 of the zinc raising the melting point of
 the solder, which is a real pain if your  
 soldering iron is NOT one of the beefier
 (more expensive) ones!  
  
 Can you tell we avoid zinc like the plague?! >>

I got this post just in the nick of time!  Finished a panel last night that
seems a bit shaky even though I reinforced with restrip in three places and
thought I would try the zinc to frame it.  I think I'll stick with the lead.

Thanks!
Brenda Marhon
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 17:59:56 1998
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X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <morn@nac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:45:58 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.94558.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to everyone for tips on the pattern transfers....with both my
mailinglists and two newsgroups...I have
gotten over thirty replies....(allmost all of them different..ha...)..

The main consensus seems to be for me to use a glue stick....

and I'm looking tomorrow for either

a Pilot GoldPaint marker...

or a Stabilo marker...(german)...

I'm sure I'll try most of these and let eveyone know how it's working...

A million thanks...to everyone...

Daniel



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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 18:39:46 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:40:57 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.164057.0>
Precedence: bulk

Daniel,

I'm a retailer and teach the art.  My method is to make a three part set of
the pattern.  The top is a tracing of the artwork, the second layer is
pellon, the third is cardboard,or oak tag.  The pattern is traced with
carbon paper between the layers so they're all the same.  Number each piece
of the pattern so that after it's cut out you know where they fit..

Cut the cardboard to individual pieces.  Wash the glass before you trace the
pattern.  Use a paint pen to trace the pattern pieces.  Be sure that you
number each piece of glass before you cut them out.  Assemble the work on
the pellon sheet grinding, if needed, to fit.  Paint pens are available in
several colors....I use red the most.

Good luck,

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel <doverbay@csi.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, September 14, 1998 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...


>This is the problem I'm having...
>
>This is my first project...sigh
>
>I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...
>
>I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice with an
>Exacto knife...
>then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
>mylar...now I
>was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass and
>even leave the mylar on while
>I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I have
>tried won't hold under the water...
>the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.
>
>
>I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape
>
>Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)
>
>and another generic double stick tape...
>
>The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I should
>just trace around the mylar
>and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't see
>the line on darker peices..
>I've even thought about fingernail polish....
>
>Could someone give me some advise on this...
>
>I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried taping
>the mylar peices the the glass
>then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
>remove the mylar and grind away any
>places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry and
>needed to be scraped away with
>a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of grit...and
>water right under the paint and it
>floated away....!
>
>I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
>mess...
>
>What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns to the
>glass....
>
>Thanks in advance....
>
>Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 19:05:10 1998
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X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: What I did on My Summer Vacation, or First Craft Show!
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:53:58 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809150053.RAA18474@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

>To: HiimLaura@aol.com
>From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
>Subject: Re: What I did on My Summer Vacation, or First Craft Show!
>
>
>Laura,
>Now that's a success story I love to hear.
>I sure hope you reflect and give yourself a big pat on the back.
>"They" say only for one day though,...then get back to work, chuckle.
>So glad it went well and you had a fabulous time!
>Cindy
>
>
>
>>Hi all, and first off thanks for all the great advice I got from those who
>>responed to my posts. The weekend was great! The greatist part of it (aside
>>fom the $), was the expierence itself - all the anticipation of wondering of
>>what people will think of my designs...I had four different people come back
>>on the second day for a 20 inch panel I sold the first day!- a great feeling -
>>and then seeing what moves and what doesn't, people admiring, meeting other
>>crafters was fun too - I really learned a lot and am surprised that it went
>>better than planned - I'm hooked!
>>
>>Laura
>>
>>P.S. - I used both the black and the white and it worked out great -
>>----
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>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>
>

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 19:31:52 1998
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X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers
From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers)
To: Daniel <doverbay@csi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:58:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.145858.0>
References: <<1998Sep14.71641.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I'm really new at this glass stuff but I've had pretty good luck with a
"white-out" pen.
I make copies of the pattern on reguler copy paper, spray adhesive on the back
and apply it to poster board. If I'm doing a foil project I just cut out down
the center of the lines. If it's lead came I cut on one side and then trim the
remaining line of the other piece. (Is that clear as mud)?  With came I find it
helpful to first fit the pattern into the lead chanel and make any changes with
a fine point pen and trim acordingly. I mark around the pattern on the glass
with the "white out or a fine ( not ultra fine) pernenant pen. Let this dry for
a bit before you attempt to cut. If I'm using the ring saw I stay just outside
the line and grind for a final fit. That way the water doesn't wash all the
marks off.
Perhaps I'm not using enough water in my grinder but the sponge seems to bring
up enough water to keep the glass and grinder cool.
Hope this helps
Nelda
Daniel wrote:

> This is the problem I'm having...
>
> This is my first project...sigh
>
> I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...
>
> I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice with an
> Exacto knife...
> then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
> mylar...now I
> was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass and
> even leave the mylar on while
> I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I have
> tried won't hold under the water...
> the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.
>
> I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape
>
> Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)
>
> and another generic double stick tape...
>
> The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I should
> just trace around the mylar
> and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't see
> the line on darker peices..
> I've even thought about fingernail polish....
>
> Could someone give me some advise on this...
>
> I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried taping
> the mylar peices the the glass
> then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
> remove the mylar and grind away any
> places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry and
> needed to be scraped away with
> a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of grit...and
> water right under the paint and it
> floated away....!
>
> I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
> mess...
>
> What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns to the
> glass....
>
> Thanks in advance....
>
> Daniel
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 19:38:54 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: doverbay@csi.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:24:04 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.1244.0>
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In a message dated 9/14/98 5:28:14 PM Central Daylight Time, doverbay@csi.com
writes:

<< Could someone give me some advise on this.. >>

Hi Daniel!

You sure have worked hard at this.  If I am tracing around a pattern piece I
use the ultra fine gold marker (Pilot).  Just let it dry a few seconds before
grinding.....actually a couple of minutes is better.  You can get a spray
adhesive to spray on the mylar but if you use that stuff spray lightly.  I
have tried various "waterproof" markers, but have found the Pilot Gold to be
the best on ALL glass, it shows up quite clearly no matter what glass you
write on and stays on through grinding.  

Lu Ann <Whispy Blu@aol.com>
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 19:57:39 1998
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From: "Scott Floyd" <scottjf55@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:39:57 PDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.13957.0>
Precedence: bulk


  Daniel:

  Well I have found that the Staedtler fine pen works the best, it seems 
to hold up very well under the wet grinding.  The double stick tape 
seems more trouble than it is worth.  Trace the mylar pattern with 
Staedtler pen , cut on the line, then grind off the black that remains.  
You mentioned that you used an exacto to cut the mylar, you should be 
using pattern sheers which cut a thin strip to allow for the foil width.  

Scott *sm*

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 20:30:23 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:39:43 EDT
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In a message dated 9/14/98 7:19:35 PM, balloch@netbridge.net wrote:

>My goodness.  Maybe you ought to get a Gladstar.   I sit at ground level
>with mine. [...]
>
>Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> [...] I also like to have my grinder down low enough so I can look straight
down on
>> the piece I'm grinding, which keeps me somewhat "out of the line of fire."

A point of clarification about looking straight down on the piece I'm
grinding: while it does keep me out of the line of fire of grit, the main
reason I do it is so I can see exactly what I'm doing. I have a hard time
gauging exactly where that bit is from the side, so sometimes my grinding
isn't as accurate as it ought to be. Looking at it from above takes care of
that.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 20:47:36 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:39:48 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.23948.0>
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In a message dated 9/14/98 9:03:46 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote:

>And, of
>course, there is that strange phenomenon
>of the zinc raising the melting point of
>the solder

I doubt that it's actually raising the melting point of the solder (OK, so
maybe in the microlayer that melts and alloys with it, but not on the larger
scale), but it sure does conduct a lot of heat away from the joint you're
trying to solder, so the net effect is the same - you want to turn your iron
way the hell up to compensate. I notice a similar thing happening when I'm
putting together a square corner using one of those aluminum corner jigs. That
big old sheet of aluminum sucks the heat right away. So will a big glob of
fill solder, or just about any metal in contact with what you're trying to
heat up.....


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 21:25:29 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: suzy@ComCAT.COM, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:32:49 EDT
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In a message dated 9/14/98 10:22:10 PM Central Daylight Time, suzy@ComCAT.COM
writes:

<< Yes, LuAnn, it does all that.  However I find those Pilot Pens to be 
 extremely frustrating -- they stop writing in the middle of lines, they 
 dry out never to be refreshed, or they blob and have to be thrown out. 
 And at $3/shot, I think they're expensive. >>

Hi Suzanne!

I'm sorry you've had such a bad time with them.  I have not had the problems
that you have mentioned above.  I do recap immediately after using it, even if
it's only going to be a very short time before I use it again.  I found if
shaking it a little before using it each time and using a very light hand when
tracing has eliminated the excess of ink.  I agree they are pricey, but they
are the only thing I have found that holds up through grinding.  Of course I
am open to try any others that I haven't tried yet.....which probably means
they are a new product.

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 21:52:22 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <WhispyBlu@AOL.COM>, <doverbay@csi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 98 22:54:11 -0400
Message-ID: <199809150257.WAA15282@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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LuAnn (Whispy Blue@aol.com writes:
If I am tracing around a pattern piece I
>use the ultra fine gold marker (Pilot).  Just let it dry a few seconds before
>grinding.....actually a couple of minutes is better. (snip) I
>have tried various "waterproof" markers, but have found the Pilot Gold to be
>the best on ALL glass, it shows up quite clearly no matter what glass you
>write on and stays on through grinding.  

Yes, LuAnn, it does all that. However I find those Pilot Pens to be 
extremely frustrating - they stop writing in the middle of lines, they 
dry out never to be refreshed, or they blob and have to be thrown out. 
And at $3/shot, I think they're expensive.

Does anybody have any other alternatives? 

Suzanne

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 01:32:20 1998
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 04:01:00 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead absorption
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:14:42 +0000
Message-ID: <199809151250.IAA16938@vger.vgernet.net>
Precedence: bulk

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

 We are all 
busy eliminating lead, it's just that we do it slowly.  There is tons of data 
on reduction of blood lead and body burdens with time.  It takes a long time 
but, except in severe overexposures, it is safer and easier on the kidneys to 
let the body do it than to chelate. The man should try reading standard 
sources instead of voodoo tracts.


> From what I have read this lead collects in our organs and nerve system and
> little of it leaves the body of its own accord.  It will eventually 
> prevent the absorption of all essential minerals including calcium. <

You read wrong.  The vast majority is stored in bones, not in organs and 
nerves.  And we are slowly and constantly replacing the calcium and lead 
in our bones with fresh calcium and lead.  If we reduce the lead and 
supply the body with lots of calcium, we slowly loose that body burden.


Only very small amounts of lead get into to the nervous system, but these 
small amounts cause devastating effects.  Even at very low doses, lead lowers 
mental acuity--which might explain your comments.


> For the average hobbyist the pea shooter used on a daily basis should
> keep lead at bay. <

Dream on.  


> Sulfur is one of the minerals that our body needs.  "an acid forming
> mineral that is part of the chemical structure of nethionine, cysteine,
>taurine, and glutathione,   <   [sic: methionine]


Sulfur is not a "mineral," it is a non-metallic element.  And it is certainly 
not a "mineral" in the nutritional sense either.  There is no RDI for 
elemental sulfur. Its toxic in this form.  It is only a part of other 
molecules such as the amino acids.


>  sulfur disinfects the blood, resists bacteria, and protects the protoplasm 
> of cells. <


The hell it does.


> It aids in oxidation reactions, stimulates bile secretions in the liver, 
> and protects against toxic substances. Because of its ability to protect 
> against the harmful effects of radiation and pollution, sulfur slows down 
> the aging process and extends life span. It is found in hemoglobin and all
> body tissues and is needed for the synthesis of collagen, which prevents 
> dryness and maintains elastin in the skin." 


That is just as dumb as saying that since nitrogen is also an element in 
those amino acids that nitrogen is the entity causing all those effects.  
The effects are the work of the whole amino acid, the oxygen carrying ability 
of complex hemoglobin, etc.

And to be perfectly frank, these sulfur-containing amino acids are 
non-essential and don't do all that much.  I'd especially watch out for 
adding a source of cysteine to my diet if I had a tendency to kidney stones.


> The liver is one of the places that lead collects and the stimulation of 
> bile secretion helps us get rid of it. <


Not on your life.  It collects in bones primarily and the major organ of 
excretion is the kidney.


> Fundamental sulfur is a mix of amino acids that create the sulfur needed by 
> the body. MSM is a brand mame. <


Then tout the whole amino acids not the sulfur, nitrogen, carbon, hydrogen or 
oxygen from which they are made.  


And just how do you think you eliminate all this sulfur from the metabolism 
of these sulfur-containing amino acids?  Phew!  They should recommend downing 
them with a chaser of Beano.  Maybe Fundamental Sulfur fights disease by 
keeping people FAR away from you.


>  Many doctors are coming around to vitamin therapy and no longer think of 
> it as voodoo.  Its too bad your not among them. <

I think vitamins are fine.  Take 'em every day.  But 
calling various non-essential sulfur-containing amino acids "fundamental 
sulfur" and saying its the sulfur that is doing the job is misleading and 
misinforming people.  In fact, it's voodoo.


Monona
ACTS
181 Thompson St., # 23
New York NY 10012-2586   212/777-0062

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 04:16:23 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: D-lead soap
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:14:42 +0000
Message-ID: <199809151250.IAA16951@vger.vgernet.net>
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I'm sorry, I lost the address of the person who posted the following 
message. Please raise your hand if you wrote it. <s>

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
  At work I use a soap called D-lead Soap.  I am not sure what
the  ingredients are but it is supposed to wash lead off of the
hands after   being exposed to it.  I will get back to you guys
on the ingredients,  does anyone else use this soap??  We ordered
it from Northwest glass  suppliers or Ed Hoy, I will get back on
that too.   
---------------------------------------------

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 06:10:19 1998
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From: LJ Maas <artist@busprod.com>
To: WhispyBlu@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:26:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.22659.0>
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Precedence: bulk

I've used good old rubber cement and the mylar sticks to the glass well
enough.
LJ
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 08:05:05 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: raising hand 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:26:06 PDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.14266.0>
Precedence: bulk


 HI Albert that was me that was talking about D-lead soap, what's up??

 Scott *sm*

********************

Scott's Stained Glass Technical Corner
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/8791

Proud member of:

Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 08:37:14 1998
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X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Pattern success!!!!
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:40:29 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.04029.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDE07C.1C9168A0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A million thanks everyone...

Last night I used a glue stick on my patterns....let them dry =
overnight...and voila....excellent success this
morning...!!..
=20
I still am going to try to get one of those very fine pilot gold pens, a =
yellow stained glass marker...
and a paint-pen....
=20
So I'll go back to lurk mode..........and let everyone know how this =
thing turns out...:)
=20
Daniel
=20
P.S.  There is a NEW stained glass newsgroup....on MSN...(they have gone =
public).
=20
the people there are very friendly....
=20
the server name is=20
=20
msnnews.msn.com
=20
and the group is
=20
msn.forums.crafts.general
=20

later   Daniel
=20

=20
=20
=20

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDE07C.1C9168A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV>A million thanks everyone...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">Last night I used a glue =
stick on=20
my patterns....let them dry overnight...and voila....excellent success=20
this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff">morning...!!..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">I still am going to try =
to get one=20
of those very fine pilot gold pens, a yellow stained glass=20
marker...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">and a =
paint-pen....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">So I'll go back to lurk=20
mode..........and let everyone know how this thing turns =
out...:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">Daniel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">P.S.&nbsp; There is a NEW =
stained=20
glass newsgroup....on MSN...(they have gone public).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">the people there are very =

friendly....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">the server name is =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff">msnnews.msn.com</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">and the group =
is</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff">msn.forums.crafts.general</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">later&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Daniel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDE07C.1C9168A0--



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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 12:37:11 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Leslye2
From: Leslye2@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: ?placement of rebar
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:52:02 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.18522.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am making a window for our front door 22x36.  It has a 1.5" border of ripple
gass, an inside border of 1" strip bevels and a large cluster in the middle.
The inside area has 4 horizontal lines, the middle 2 are broken due to the
bevel. All this means lots of lead lines.  I know I need at least 1 horizontal
line of rebar but can't figure out where to put it.  It is going to have to go
through glass, either the bevel or the clear baroque.  Which would be better?
Does the rebar placement have to be centered or can I go above or below
center?
Do I want to try to have it over a lead line if it doesn't have to be
centered?

Thanks for your expertise,
Leslye
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 13:01:32 1998
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From: Leslye2@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: ?placement of rebar
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:52:03 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.18523.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am making a window for our front door 22x36.  It has a 1.5" border of ripple
gass, an inside border of 1" strip bevels and a large cluster in the middle.
The inside area has 4 horizontal lines, the middle 2 are broken due to the
bevel. All this means lots of lead lines.  I know I need at least 1 horizontal
line of rebar but can't figure out where to put it.  It is going to have to go
through glass, either the bevel or the clear baroque.  Which would be better?
Does the rebar placement have to be centered or can I go above or below
center?
Do I want to try to have it over a lead line if it doesn't have to be
centered?

Thanks for your expertise,
Leslye
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 15:40:25 1998
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X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage
From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: exporting to Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:46:00 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.7460.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

My husband took a message a couple hours ago from a gal in Vancouver BC. (We
live in the Seattle area)  Apparently the gal saw some of my garden art and
is interested in purchasing to sell in Japan.   I tried to call the gal back
but she is out of the office until tomorrow.  My question to you folks
is..... does anyone know anything about exporting merchandise to Japan.  I
know nothing!!!!    I am not sure how much she wants or any specifics at
all.  I just need to know if this is going to be a big hassle.   If anyone
could shed some light on exporting out of the country I would sure
appreciate it.   I have never shipped my items and I know that may be a bit
of a hassle.


Thanks for your input.


Cheryl Parrott
The Glass Parrott
bird_cage@msn.com




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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 16:48:17 1998
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charles_Spitzer
From: Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="exporting"
Subject: exporting to Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:48:42 -0700
Message-ID: <H00000c300991f11@MHS>
References: <<"1998Sep15.7460.0*"@MHS>>
Precedence: bulk

this is going to be a big hassle.

japan has a lot of barriers to importing stuff. they have to be tested,
warranteed, taxed, and lot of paperwork done for this. i would get the
other person to do everything.

furthermore, it's going to be expensive and slow to ship stuff there.
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 17:19:33 1998
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From: Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Lead"
Subject: Lead discussion
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:30:52 -0700
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here's an interesting cnn article about a new study about the
accumulation of lead, and how it has changed in history.

http://cnn.com/TECH/science/9809/14/bog.history.ap/index.html

charlie
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 17:36:46 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: exporting to Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:11:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.151153.0>
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Cheryl,

I suggest you speak to your friendly banker, no initial cost for
information, regarding letters of credit.  You need to have payment locked
in before you ship.  It's almost impossible to collect unpaid invoices from
overseas accounts.  Good luck...It sounds very interesting.

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Parrott <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: bungi group <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 7:04 PM
Subject: exporting to Japan


>Hi,
>
>My husband took a message a couple hours ago from a gal in Vancouver BC.
(We
>live in the Seattle area)  Apparently the gal saw some of my garden art and
>is interested in purchasing to sell in Japan.   I tried to call the gal
back
>but she is out of the office until tomorrow.  My question to you folks
>is..... does anyone know anything about exporting merchandise to Japan.  I
>know nothing!!!!    I am not sure how much she wants or any specifics at
>all.  I just need to know if this is going to be a big hassle.   If anyone
>could shed some light on exporting out of the country I would sure
>appreciate it.   I have never shipped my items and I know that may be a bit
>of a hassle.
>
>
>Thanks for your input.
>
>
>Cheryl Parrott
>The Glass Parrott
>bird_cage@msn.com
>
>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 17:49:38 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Pattern success!!!!
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:13:51 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.01351.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 9/15/98 4:38:14 PM, doverbay@csi.com wrote:

>I still am going to try to get one of those very fine pilot gold pens, a =
>yellow stained glass marker...
>and a paint-pen....

Just stay far away from those Marvy/Uchida "Deco-Color" paint pens. They have
an alarming habit of falling apart. The point assembly gets stuck in the cap
and pulls right out of the barrel. And when they're not falling apart, they're
spewing globs of ink all over the place when you "press down on point until
color appears" as the instructions say.

In my experience, fiber-point paint pens in general work far better and leak
far less than roller ball or plastic-point ones.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 18:17:33 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Lead billboard
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:39:03 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.16393.0>
Precedence: bulk

Has anyone seen the billboard
that says:

'Always ask, "Is it love or is it
lead poisoning?"

What does it mean???  Huh?
Sometimes, I feel like I'm living
on a different planet from the =

rest of the world!

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga/org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 18:37:53 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:alewis@vgernet.net" <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: IGGA Online News Memo
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:39:18 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.163918.0>
Precedence: bulk

Spectrums' referral site sounds
great, Albert.  Now is there any
way to link their site to IGGA's =

so that all us members can be
referred to architects and designers?
;-)  Just a thought!

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 18:49:49 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Article on Light Healing
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 20:41:29 -0400
Message-ID: <199809160045.UAA22642@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everybody,

The article on Healing with Light, from the London Sunday Times, is here 
and available for anyone who would like to read it. It's long, so I ask 
that you E-mail me privately and I will send it along.

There are accompanying pictures, in their own separate files as 
attachments; I will not send these unless specifically requested.

It's a dynamite article!

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 18:56:24 1998
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X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat
From: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:28:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.162850.0>
References: <<1998Sep13.13248.0>>
Organization: The Stained Glass Place
Precedence: bulk

What about using a face shield for the grinder? I give them to the
customer free with the purchase of a grinder. Gotta have one if you're
using a grinder. 
Carolyn
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 19:06:40 1998
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X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat
From: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:54:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.165447.0>
References: <<199809150257.WAA15282@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Organization: The Stained Glass Place
Precedence: bulk

The EZ Trace White pens are great! They don't get clogged up or "blob"
all over the place.
Carolyn
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 19:23:20 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: exporting to Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:55:49 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.105549.0>
Precedence: bulk

Did I miss something?

If someone wants to buy YOUR stuff to export anywhere, why should you do the
leg work to find out about it.

Sell her a bunch of stones and let it be a learning experience for her.

I have looked into exporting lampshades via the usual carriers and it seemed
to me they thought they were doing me a favor by delivering. None of them
were cheap, limited delivery some cases only only to the airport and of
course VERY expensive to insure my shades. One of the countries had a
MAXIMUM of $1,000.00 per package. It would have been cheaper for me to carry
on a few and baggage the rest. Plus side I would have gotten to visit the
country (s) as well.

Have trouble keeping up with my "in-country" sales and decided I did NOT
need the hassle.

enjoy, H

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 20:40:42 1998
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X-Path: home.com!kristc
From: Kris <kristc@home.com>
To: Doug Parrott <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: exporting to Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:56:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.165656.0>
References: <<1998Sep15.7460.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

You said she is "interested in purchasing to sell to Japan." If she buys
your art, pays you for it, she can so whatever she pleases with it after
that. All the overseas selling would be her headache. I don't know a
thing about it either and I don't think I would be interested in
learning! I see headaches, red tape, minefields......eeewwww!  Good
luck!

Kris

Doug Parrott wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> My husband took a message a couple hours ago from a gal in Vancouver BC. (We
> live in the Seattle area)  Apparently the gal saw some of my garden art and
> is interested in purchasing to sell in Japan.   I tried to call the gal back
> but she is out of the office until tomorrow.  My question to you folks
> is..... does anyone know anything about exporting merchandise to Japan.  I
> know nothing!!!!    I am not sure how much she wants or any specifics at
> all.  I just need to know if this is going to be a big hassle.   If anyone
> could shed some light on exporting out of the country I would sure
> appreciate it.   I have never shipped my items and I know that may be a bit
> of a hassle.
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> 
> Cheryl Parrott
> The Glass Parrott
> bird_cage@msn.com
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 20:58:53 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:34:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.183447.0>
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Does anybody except me still
use white china markers or =

black Sharpies to trace pattern
pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
like a fine wine.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 22:39:20 1998
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From: Molly Keys <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
To: Doug Parrott <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B8EDA5BF4926254EAF1D91C6"
Subject: Re: exporting to Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:16:56 -0500
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Hi Doug,
My only experience with exporting was shipping to hotels in the Camaan Islands.
They did have a specific shipping guide they gave me to follow that listed who I
was to ship with, the date it had to be at port (to be packed in the container),
where I was to place their purchase order number on the box (this was
important).  Since this was their first order I asked for a "pro forma" ,which
means prepayment and the company had no problem with that. During my seven years
of doing wholesale gift shows this is how I handled new accounts.  It's a very
common way for small businesses to be paid and it keeps you from tying up your
overhead.
Hope this helps a little bit.
Molly

Doug Parrott wrote:

> Hi,
>
> My husband took a message a couple hours ago from a gal in Vancouver BC. (We
> live in the Seattle area)  Apparently the gal saw some of my garden art and
> is interested in purchasing to sell in Japan.   I tried to call the gal back
> but she is out of the office until tomorrow.  My question to you folks
> is..... does anyone know anything about exporting merchandise to Japan.  I
> know nothing!!!!    I am not sure how much she wants or any specifics at
> all.  I just need to know if this is going to be a big hassle.   If anyone
> could shed some light on exporting out of the country I would sure
> appreciate it.   I have never shipped my items and I know that may be a bit
> of a hassle.
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Cheryl Parrott
> The Glass Parrott
> bird_cage@msn.com
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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begin:          vcard
fn:             Molly Keys
n:              Keys;Molly
org:            Molly's Stained glass
email;internet: MollysGlass@sprintmail.com
title:          Owner
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 22:57:54 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Lead poisoning vs. Love poisoning
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:32:16 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.43216.0>
Precedence: bulk

Has anyone seen the billboard
that says:

'Always ask, "Is it love or is it
lead poisoning?"

What does it mean???  Huh?
Sometimes, I feel like I'm living
on a different planet from the =
rest of the world!

Personally have never seen the billboard, what is it advertising?   

We can either work on this logically or do it my way.   I would determine both
the symptoms of lead poisoning and being in love and see if any are similar.
I am a bit more familiar with being in love so can we start there?   Does lead
poisoning make you walk around with a goofy smile on your face?    Does it
make your heart beat faster?  Does it put your head in the clouds?   

You have me very curious now, where can we see this billboard?   Can you take
a picture next time you are driving by and pass it around to all of us?   I am
addicted to billboards and relish any time we can spend talking about them.

Take care guys, as always, you are great.

Pat        
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 23:52:49 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Carolyn Lick" <lick@cyberus.ca>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio # 52 and Cyber Gremlins
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:27:48 -0500
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My sincere apologizes to Carolyn Lick for misspelling her name in her own
bio. And after her coming to my rescue, what a terrible way to treat this
lady.

It's just a good thing Toby is napping (as usual) or my fine furry friend
would have a chomp.

I am now punishing myself by writing "Carolyn" in pilot gold pen on every
piece of glass I have.

Again I'm truly sorry.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows



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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 04:29:57 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:24:43 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.102443.0>
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Dani - I use the white china markers and Sharpies too.  They work great for
cutting but they do wash away with grinding.
Brenda

In a message dated 9/16/98 12:32:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:

<< Does anybody except me still
 use white china markers or =
 
 black Sharpies to trace pattern
 pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
 like a fine wine >>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 04:55:46 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Article on Light Healing
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:42:59 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

Good on ya, Suzanne!!
Can now wipe the perspiration from my tired brow!!
:->
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Suzanne wrote:
> Hi Everybody,
> 
> The article on Healing with Light, from the London Sunday Times, is here 
> and available for anyone who would like to read it. It's long, so I ask 
> that you E-mail me privately and I will send it along.
> 
> There are accompanying pictures, in their own separate files as 
> attachments; I will not send these unless specifically requested.
> 
> It's a dynamite article!
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 06:23:04 1998
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Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
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Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:42:59 +0000
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Hi Dani et al,

Yep! I do! 
If you are like ol...sorry... "fine" wine, then I must be 
"extra-fine" port!!
On the whole, I use good old fashioned "English method" with pen&ink 
carton and light-box (where necessary) and am a little amused at all 
the performance about gold-pens, sharpies, water-proof markers, and 
all the heart-aches these apparently involve. 
Ah, well.... the price of modern progress...  ;-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (whose tummy is beginning to rumble 
gently...)

Dani wrote:
> Does anybody except me still
> use white china markers or =
> 
> black Sharpies to trace pattern
> pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
> like a fine wine.
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 06:59:11 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: exporting to Japan
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 05:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809161257.FAA28284@ns2.vphos.net>
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Hi Cheryl and all,
I tend to agree.
Seattle isn't that far from Vancouver BC.
Surely the client could come down and purchase them from you and take all
the measures to transport? IMO.
Would you be exporting to Canada, her place of business?
I don't know if you have a government agency in the States that promotes
exporting, but we have one here, New Exporters to Border States (NEBS).
Which helps BC companies to develope new markets within the USA. They also
provide a 2 day seminar in Seattle for intro into the exporting process.
Maybe you have the same?
Cindy

>
>You said she is "interested in purchasing to sell to Japan." If she buys
>your art, pays you for it, she can so whatever she pleases with it after
>that. All the overseas selling would be her headache. I don't know a
>thing about it either and I don't think I would be interested in
>learning! I see headaches, red tape, minefields......eeewwww!  Good
>luck!
>
>Kris
>
>Doug Parrott wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> My husband took a message a couple hours ago from a gal in Vancouver BC. (We
>> live in the Seattle area)  Apparently the gal saw some of my garden art and
>> is interested in purchasing to sell in Japan.   I tried to call the gal back
>> but she is out of the office until tomorrow.  My question to you folks
>> is..... does anyone know anything about exporting merchandise to Japan.  I
>> know nothing!!!!    I am not sure how much she wants or any specifics at
>> all.  I just need to know if this is going to be a big hassle.   If anyone
>> could shed some light on exporting out of the country I would sure
>> appreciate it.   I have never shipped my items and I know that may be a bit
>> of a hassle.
>> 
>> Thanks for your input.
>> 
>> Cheryl Parrott
>> The Glass Parrott
>> bird_cage@msn.com
>> 
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 08:15:28 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: exporting to Japan
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:41:24 -0700
Message-ID: <199809161341.GAA31807@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Cheryl

Make your sale FOB your studio.  That way the purchaser has to look after
everything.  All you do is pack the order and take the money.

After all, you're an artist, she's the exporter.

Carol


i,
>
>My husband took a message a couple hours ago from a gal in Vancouver BC. (We
>live in the Seattle area)  Apparently the gal saw some of my garden art and
>is interested in purchasing to sell in Japan.   I tried to call the gal back
>but she is out of the office until tomorrow.  My question to you folks
>is..... does anyone know anything about exporting merchandise to Japan.  I
>know nothing!!!!    I am not sure how much she wants or any specifics at
>all.  I just need to know if this is going to be a big hassle.   If anyone
>could shed some light on exporting out of the country I would sure
>appreciate it.   I have never shipped my items and I know that may be a bit
>of a hassle.
>
>
>Thanks for your input.
>
>
>Cheryl Parrott
>The Glass Parrott
>bird_cage@msn.com
>
>
>
>
>----
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>
>

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:14:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.31446.0>
References: <<1998Sep15.183447.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I'm your basic black sharpie girl.  I did buy a blue and a red when I
heard they show on some colors where you can't see the black.

Jerri

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:34:47 -0400 "Michael J. Greer"
<GreerStudios@compuserve.com> writes:
>Does anybody except me still
>use white china markers or =
>
>black Sharpies to trace pattern
>pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
>like a fine wine.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer
>Greer Gallery & Studios
>http://www.igga.org/greer/  =
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 08:50:41 1998
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From: "Rachelle Seguin" <seguinr@post.queensu.ca>
To: "Bungi Glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: help - markers and cutting oil
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:51:54 -0400
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BDE157.A29ACBE0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


I have been following the discussion re markers and water with interest. My
problem is when I trace a pattern onto glass, then go to cut it with my
oil-filled cutter, the oil that is deposited on the glass smears the lines I
have not yet cut. By the time I have done a curve, or two straight cuts, the
other lines are obliterated.

Is there something I am doing wrong? Do some markers dissolve less in oil
than others? Perhaps its the brand of cutter oil I'm using. Suggestions
would be helpful as I have found this quite frustrating recently while
working on a Mickey Mouse suncatcher with small pieces.
Rachelle Seguin



------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BDE157.A29ACBE0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D510114713-16091998><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
size=3D2>I have=20
been following the discussion re markers and water with interest. My =
problem is=20
when I trace a pattern onto glass, then go to cut it with my oil-filled =
cutter,=20
the oil that is deposited on the glass smears the lines I have not yet =
cut. By=20
the time I have done a curve, or two straight cuts, the other lines are=20
obliterated. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D510114713-16091998><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D510114713-16091998><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Is=20
there something I am doing wrong? Do some markers dissolve less in oil =
than=20
others? Perhaps its the brand of cutter oil I'm using. Suggestions would =
be=20
helpful as I have found this quite frustrating recently while working on =
a=20
Mickey Mouse suncatcher with small pieces.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Rachelle Seguin </FONT></P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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