From owner-glass Thu May 1 10:35:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wMzk4-0000kLa; Thu, 1 May 97 10:34 PDT X-Path: netbistro.com!pom From: pom@netbistro.com (J. Smith) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: soldering lessons Date: Thu, 1 May 97 10:38 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Greetings to all ! How I admire all you talented and artistic peaple out their! Being a newcommer to stained glass, I would like to learn the proper methods of soldering. Iam not so fortunate as to have someone show me first hand. I live in Prince George B.C Canada . Which of the videos on soldering are the best teachers, I realize it would take alot of practice as well! Love stained glass so far as I cant seem to read enough about the subject. Love all the comments from all you bungi's. I know it will be a great learning experience . Bye for now Jennifer pom@netbistro.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 1 12:59:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wN1zh-0000mwa; Thu, 1 May 97 12:58 PDT X-Path: nwi.net!dloda From: "Dave & Lynn Loda" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: soldering lessons Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:00:47 -0700 Message-ID: <199705012003.NAA14162@nwinternet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Jennifer, the best video I've seen for beginning soldering is Vicky Paines called I believe the Art of Soldering. Welcome to the world of Glass. Have fun. Dave Loda Art Glass of Wenatchee ---------- > From: J. Smith > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: soldering lessons > Date: Thursday, May 01, 1997 10:00 AM > > Greetings to all ! How I admire all you talented and artistic peaple > out their! Being a newcommer to stained glass, I would like to learn > the proper methods of soldering. Iam not so fortunate as to have someone show > me first hand. I live in Prince George B.C Canada . > Which of the videos on soldering are the best teachers, I realize it > would take alot of practice as well! Love stained glass so far as I > cant seem to read enough about the subject. Love all the comments from > all you bungi's. I know it will be a great learning experience . > Bye for now Jennifer pom@netbistro.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 2 05:22:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wNHKe-0000gpa; Fri, 2 May 97 05:21 PDT X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: soldering lessons Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 07:23:09 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970502072309.006a82c0@busprod.com> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Being a newcomer to stained glass, I would like to learn >the proper methods of soldering. I am not so fortunate as to have someone show >me first hand. I live in Prince George B.C Canada . >Which of the videos on soldering are the best teachers... Jennifer... Welcome to the world of glass...I hope you enjoy it as much as I do! Do you have any glass shops, craft shops, or schools around you? I have to say I've never viewed a video on soldering, but it only took a few moments for a good teacher to "show" me her technique. While I think there are a lot of decent videos available, it is so much easier and faster to watch someone in person...ask a few pertinent questions...and have them watch you at it. All of the above that I mentioned would usually be more than happy to give you a start. LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 2 06:00:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wNHw2-0000lfa; Fri, 2 May 97 05:59 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: soldering lessons Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 06:54:28 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970430012635.25c7274e@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Jennifer; I live in Costa Rica, and no one else does stained glass near to me.... so I read books and tried and listened to conversations here, and tried some more. I think that I have it fairly well in hand now.... I would think a video would be better than books, but not as good as a live person... take heart it can be learned!!! Meg At 10:38 AM 5/1/97 PDT, you wrote: >Greetings to all ! How I admire all you talented and artistic peaple >out their! Being a newcommer to stained glass, I would like to learn >the proper methods of soldering. Iam not so fortunate as to have someone show >me first hand. I live in Prince George B.C Canada . >Which of the videos on soldering are the best teachers, I realize it >would take alot of practice as well! Love stained glass so far as I >cant seem to read enough about the subject. Love all the comments from >all you bungi's. I know it will be a great learning experience . >Bye for now Jennifer pom@netbistro.com > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 2 06:26:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wNILn-0000qPa; Fri, 2 May 97 06:26 PDT X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.) To: glass@bungi.com. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: soldering lessons Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 09:28:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1997May2.22845.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: The Craft Nook, Inc. Precedence: bulk We use the Glass Giraffe Soldering Video in all our Basic classes..We realy like these..You can contact them at. http://www.glassgiraffe.com. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 2 16:17:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wNRZE-0000nMa; Fri, 2 May 97 16:16 PDT X-Path: scc.net!oddjob From: Reitmann To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: German pattern shears Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:14:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1997May2.131433.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk About 10 days ago somebody inquired about a "german pattern shears".I tried to do some checking but need a bit more info to follow through. Do you know a brand name? Anything that could help point us in the right direction would be helpful....... I "lost" the original post. Hope to hear from whom ever sent it in. Regards. Sue Reitmann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 3 05:56:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wNeKl-0000jqa; Sat, 3 May 97 05:54 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: new hobbyist Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 12:54:31 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May3.125431.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >that's ok this is what i want to here. i rather find out now then later. >mainly i need a cermic, or a light weight, fast heating iron. currently >i have ungar if the tip goes bad the heater has to be replaced too. i >need an iron that not only does the above requirments but also has >seperate tips; small, large, etc. > >anyone else had any luck with such an iron? it seems instaheat is junk, >as told to by others. > >---Mike Savad > Mike, I have had good luck with Weller 100W and with Hakkos. I don't even carry the Inland line of irons in my store anymore because too many were being returned. Inland always worked very well with me to replace them defective irons, but there were so many problems ....... BTW Inland can be reached at 1-800-521-8428, ask for Customer Service. The Hakko 60W Super Pro has a ceramic heating tip so it works off a rheostat. It heats up quickly, holds a constant temp for hours on end, has a good ergonomic feel, it's light, and it's dependable ...... and it's priced retail around $45. I put Hakkos and Wellers out for students to use and more of them will migrate toward the Hakkos than the Wellers. Hope this helps. Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 3 06:00:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wNePK-0000yPa; Sat, 3 May 97 05:59 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: slides of American stained glass Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 12:59:12 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May3.125912.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Those slides are mostly of contemporary glass. Julie Sloan's thinking >of putting some of her thousands of slides into purchaseable sets, as >well. Hers are exclusively of stained glass created during the late >1800s and early 1900s in the U.S., although she has presented slide >shows of stained glass from the past 1,000 years. Would there be any >interest in sets of slides like that? > >Albert Albert, I might be interested in a compilation of these slides. Please be sure to announce their availability! Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 3 06:45:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wNf6q-0000ona; Sat, 3 May 97 06:44 PDT X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: slides of American stained glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 09:51:11 +0000 Message-ID: <199705031344.JAA19929@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >interest in sets of slides like that? > > Albert, I might be interested in a compilation of these slides. Please be > sure to announce their availability! Oh, you bet. Thanks for your input. Albert Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 3 08:07:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0wNf6q-0000ona; Sat, 3 May 97 06:44 PDT X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: slides of American stained glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 09:51:11 +0000 Message-ID: <199705031344.JAA19929@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >interest in sets of slides like that? > > Albert, I might be interested in a compilation of these slides. Please be > sure to announce their availability! Oh, you bet. Thanks for your input. Albert Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 3 08:33:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wNgoB-0000psa; Sat, 3 May 97 08:33 PDT X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: slides of American stained glass Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 10:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199705031406.KAA07340@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert wrote, > > >>Those slides are mostly of contemporary glass. Julie Sloan's thinking >>of putting some of her thousands of slides into purchaseable sets, as >>well. Hers are exclusively of stained glass created during the late >>1800s and early 1900s in the U.S., although she has presented slide >>shows of stained glass from the past 1,000 years. Would there be any >>interest in sets of slides like that? Put us on your list....wow all those slides in one place. You mean I won't have to hunt for slides anymore???? my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 3 08:56:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wNh9e-00004pa; Sat, 3 May 97 08:55 PDT X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: slides of American stained glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 12:01:54 +0000 Message-ID: <199705031554.LAA25874@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Put us on your list....wow all those slides in one place. You mean I won't > have to hunt for slides anymore???? You're on the list, pj. By the way, I'm sorry I haven't answered your question of the other day about where Julie's next lecturing, since you said you'd like to attend. Unfortunately, she just completed a string of lectures at the Queens Museum and other points around New York City. Wore her to a frazzle, you bet; she puts a lot of time and energy into preparing those. But the next one's scheduled for September in Buffalo, NY. Too bad it's so far away, but Buffalo's a nice town ... great chicken wings, I hear, so perhaps you and Paul will make the trip after all. She's lecturing next year in England and Scotland, which might be an even *more interesting trip for you. Leading a tour of British Arts&Crafts stained glass in July, lecturing beforehand near Edinburgh in May. Albert Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 3 12:03:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wNk4b-0000y3a; Sat, 3 May 97 12:02 PDT X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison From: ItsAlison@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: new hobbyist Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 15:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May3.11214.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike, I really like my Insta-Heat iron....I believe it is a ceramic iron. It heats up quiclky and you can interchange soldering tips. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 3 14:16:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wNm9Y-0000ooa; Sat, 3 May 97 14:15 PDT X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J." To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: How to for wiring lamps, etc. Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 17:16:16 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970503171616.006d5c50@pop.bridge.net> References: <<1997Apr30.144333.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello, all, Does anyone have any suggestions on books or web sites for lamp making ... I mean the stuff other than the stained glass part? I'd also be grateful for any information on suppliers of parts ... on the web or off. Thanks in advance for your help! :D M.-J. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 07:12:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO20i-0000lca; Sun, 4 May 97 07:11 PDT X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: How to for wiring lamps, etc. Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 10:07:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May4.6754.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19970503171616.006d5c50@pop.bridge.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi M. J. Try the suppliers links at http://www.artglassworld.com/Welcome.html or http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm or IGGA suppliers Both Glass Crafters in Sarasota, and Delphi have complete lines of lamp components in their catalogs. If you haven't gone home the Keys yet, stop by Glass Crafters and pick some up on your way home. The kits (lamp parts, components) have complete instructions with them for wiring etc. Also if there is a "Home Depot" or "Lowes" anywhere near you, they have complete lamp parts supplies too. If you decide to head for Sarasota, e-mail me privately and we'll get together for lunch or dinner while you are here. Love to talk some 'glass' with you. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations M.-J. wrote: > > Hello, all, > > Does anyone have any suggestions on books or web sites for lamp making ... > I mean the stuff other than the stained glass part? I'd also be grateful > for any information on suppliers of parts ... on the web or off. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 07:18:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO26a-00006Xa; Sun, 4 May 97 07:17 PDT X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 10:13:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May4.61359.0> References: <<199705031344.JAA19929@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk This is the most quiet I've seen the bungi group in a long time-so here is a 'spanner' in the works. Last issue of Glass Patterns Quarterly had an article with instr. and pics on using the new "plastic came", has anyone actually tried this stuff??? What kinds of projects ( other than the box shown) might it be useful for???? No, I don't like the idea of panels or windows done with it, but what about 'suncatchers' (no soldering) boxes (shown), other 3D work??? Anyone on the list tried it??? That ought to get some discussion going.--- Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 07:36:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO2OG-0000r4a; Sun, 4 May 97 07:35 PDT X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: German Pattern Shears/Bird Pattern Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 07:36:06 -0700 Message-ID: <199705041436.HAA11085@mars.ark.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Howdy ... I don't recall the original post requesting these but I would try "The Glass Place--Montreal, Canada Phone & Fax-- 1-800-363-7855. They have a number of shears listed, so maybe thats there. > Also, I am looking for a fairly large (18x24)? or so 'Eagle or Owl' showing both wings or just 1 from the side, Pattern. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 08:14:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO2yW-00011Ea; Sun, 4 May 97 08:13 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 11:10:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May4.71043.0> References: <<1997May4.61359.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk leestat7 wrote: > > This is the most quiet I've seen the bungi group in a long time-so here > is a 'spanner' in the works. Last issue of Glass Patterns Quarterly had > an article with instr. and pics on using the new "plastic came", has > anyone actually tried this stuff??? What kinds of projects ( other than > the box shown) might it be useful for???? No, I don't like the idea of > panels or windows done with it, but what about 'suncatchers' (no > soldering) boxes (shown), other 3D work??? Anyone on the list tried > it??? > > That ought to get some discussion going.--- > > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i personally can't see it as being very strong. horizontally it should be strong enough, but vertically i can just see it now; the piece sags, and all the pieces fall out. i guess it's good for beginners, and of course it does come in a bunch of colors. anyway, soon i'll be done with my current project, it's 95% done, today i have to make the lids. it came out just about exactly to plan about 95% of it. and after it's done, i have a mess of pages to make and put up.. but of course that'll be announced later on. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 09:01:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO3i2-0000mCa; Sun, 4 May 97 09:00 PDT X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1 From: StndGlass1@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: How to for wiring lamps, etc. Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 12:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May4.8010.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-05-03 17:18:44 EDT, you write: << Does anyone have any suggestions on books or web sites for lamp making >> We carry a book by Joe Porcelli called "The Lampmaking Handbook" (BK340 $23.70). In my opinion, if you are looking to make a Tiffany style lamp, this is the best reference book out there! Jenna Meredith Meredith Stained Glass Center www.meredithglass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 09:06:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO3mn-0000eJa; Sun, 4 May 97 09:05 PDT X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1 From: StndGlass1@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 12:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May4.858.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-05-04 11:16:16 EDT, you write: << i personally can't see it as being very strong. horizontally it should be strong enough, but vertically i can just see it now; the piece sags, and all the pieces fall out. i guess it's good for beginners, and of course it does come in a bunch of colors. >> It's not too bad actually. My concerns were originally the same as yours, but we got our distributors sample not to long ago, and it has a metal core in it, which adds quite a bit of strength. I can see the plastic came having some beginner hobbyist applications, but for my personal 2 cents worth, I don't think I will be working with it. The add shows a full array of colors as well. Currently, I believe they said it is only available in white and grey, the other colors of the rainbow soon to follow. Jenna Meredith Meredith Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 10:06:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO4j8-0000iqa; Sun, 4 May 97 10:05 PDT X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Subject: Pattern shears Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 13:04:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May4.9419.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Sue- Glad to get some bungi mail - I was starting to go into withdrawal! I am looking for the West German pattern shears. Have tried all the wholesalers including Bendheim and no luck - I don't think anybody carries them anymore. I'm hoping that somebody in the group has an old pair stuffed in a drawer somewhere, or a European member might be able to give me some tips on where to acquire a pair. Thanks and I'm keeping my fingers crossed! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 11:04:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO5dN-0000q8a; Sun, 4 May 97 11:03 PDT X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison From: ItsAlison@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May4.10331.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lee, I just picked up the Spring issue of Glass Patterns Quarterly last week. I saw an ad for the plastic came in the front of the magazine, but no article with instructions for how to use it. I am very interested ....if anyone out there has used it or seen it demonstrated, let's start a discussion. I'd really like to try it! I'm interested in anything new out there thats on the leading edge! What issue contained the article on using it, Lee? I'd like to locate that issue. Alison ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 11:13:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO5mA-0000tea; Sun, 4 May 97 11:12 PDT X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:19:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199705041812.OAA11491@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I can see the plastic came having some beginner hobbyist applications, but > for my personal 2 cents worth, I don't think I will be working with it. The > add shows a full array of colors as well. I'm sorry ... plastic came? In an array of colors? Eeeyeuw! Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 11:32:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO647-0000k3a; Sun, 4 May 97 11:31 PDT X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 4 May 97 14:33:43 -0400 Message-ID: <199705041831.OAA26226@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I saw an ad for the plastic came in the front of the magazine, but no >article with instructions for how to use it. I'm interested in anything new >out there thats on the leading edge! "leading edge" surely you jest. Sorry, couldn't resist! suzanne albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 11:40:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO6C4-0000qva; Sun, 4 May 97 11:39 PDT X-Path: pipeline.com!erainbow2 From: Mark Wallace To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: pouring concrete: Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970503162825.2d6f6db6@pop.pipeline.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I've been reading a lot lately about "pouring cement" around a stepping stone to incorporate it into a concrete slab. This should not be a problem if a few precautions are taken. I'm assuming now that your stepping stone is actually made of concrete and glass. Note I said "concrete." If we're going to discuss this intelligently we should all understand the terms. Cement is the powder you buy in a bag to mix with water to form a cement/water paste. This cement/water paste is the "glue" that holds concrete together. Concrete is the mixture of cement, water, sand, and gravel. The sand and gravel are simply cheap filler materials used to produce volume because cement is very expensive compared to them. Notice that water is a necessary ingredient. It reacts chemically with the cement to make the "glue." I'm also going to assume that your slab will be thicker than the stone. You can get your stepping stone to bond to the slab simply by soaking your stone in water (for about an hour) before setting it in the slab concrete. This will prevent the stepping stone from absorbing the needed moisture from the wet slab concrete and thus not permitting a zone of it to cure properly. Will the slab concrete stick to the stepping stone? Of course it will. Look at all the rocks in the concrete. Your stepping stone is just another rock with a flat surface having some glass attached to it. You will form an incredibly tight bond along the sides and the bottom. Will it pop out? Only if the whole slab does. It will go with it. Just for information, some weeks ago I read a post where someone was talking about the mortar (cement, fine sand, and water) not having as much strength as concrete. Not true. The cement/water paste that coats the surfaces of all the sand particles and all the rocks is a lot stronger than the rocks. If you ever look at a broken section of concrete slab, you will find (in properly mixed concrete) that the rocks fractured through and did not pull out of the cement/water paste. I hope this helped somewhat. If you're wondering where I came up with all this stuff it's because I'm a civil engineer. We had to know a little about concrete to graduate. One more pet peeve I have. I keep reading books on stepping stones telling you to put your reinforcement in the middle of the stone. Bunk! The purpose of steel reinforcing bars in concrete is to carry tension loads caused by the bending of the beam or slab. When a beam which is supported at both ends is loaded midway between the supports, the beam bends down in the middle. The top of the beam is in compression (for which concrete is a great material) while the bottom of the beam is in tension (for which concrete isn't worth a hoot). Thus the steel reinforcing bars are put close to the bottom of the beam to carry the tension loads and to prevent the concrete from cracking. What's absurd about putting any reinforcement at the middle of the beam is that the stress at the middle of the beam is zero. It's the point where the stress changes from compression to tension. If your stone can be bent in the other direction (ie where the top is in tension and the bottom is in compression) such as when an edge of the stone sticks out beyond a support surface, it would be a good idea to add a layer of reinforcement just underneath the glass too. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Mark ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 11:42:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO6Dm-0000vRa; Sun, 4 May 97 11:41 PDT X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 14:37:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May4.103737.0> References: <<1997May4.10331.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk ItsAlison@aol.com wrote: > Hi, It is the spring issue, page 89-Jewelry Box Lid. Instructions are pretty complete. In this use, white came was used-with White Opalescent, #18S glass. All in a pre-made Oak Box. It actually looks quite nice, in this instance. The ad is page-6 same issue. But I figured this is 'unusual' and 'controversial' enough to get some comments going. In a window or a 'panel' I don't think I would care for it, prefering the more traditional lead or copper foil. Which I think would be stronger. But perhaps in some 3D work, suncatchers, and to be unusual with lots of colors???????????/ Also, no worry with corrosion of lead or copper foil lines?????????????????????????/ Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations >Lee, > I just picked up the Spring issue of Glass Patterns Quarterly last week. I saw an ad for the plastic came in the front of the magazine, What issue contained the article on using it, Lee? I'd like > to locate that issue. > I am very interested ....if anyone out > there has used it or seen it demonstrated, let's start a discussion. I'd > really like to try it! I'm interested in anything new out there thats on the > leading edge! > Alison ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 12:18:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO6n7-0000kua; Sun, 4 May 97 12:17 PDT X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: German Pattern Shears/Bird Pattern Date: Sun, 4 May 97 15:20:16 -0400 Message-ID: <199705041917.PAA27187@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> Also, I am looking for a fairly large (18x24)? or so 'Eagle or Owl' >showing both wings or just 1 from the side, Pattern. Wayne, I did a quick look through my pattern books. Maybe one of these will help: 1. Judy Miller, House Tours, p. 78 Eagle 2. Mark & Susan Walton, 200 Design Ideas for Stained Glass, several eagles, one full-size at back of book inside an oval 3. Carolyn Relei, Bird Designs, Owl p. 30, Eagle p. 28, 4. Judy Miller, Birds & Flowers, Owl p. 78 5. Allen Kenoyer Glass, Pattern Book 3, Eagle p. 35 6. Judy Miller, House Tours International, Eagle p. 97 7. Art Glass Images, Thomas Morin,II, Owls p. 63 & 41, Eagles p. 38 & 39 8. Judy Miller, House Tours II, Eagle p. 40 9. Gloria Fohr, Southwest Expressions, Eagle p.44 and last, but not least, 10. Renee Martig, Inspired by Nature, 3 Owls p.49, Owl p.40, Eagles p.12 & 13 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > suzanne albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 14:00:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO8OM-0000rGa; Sun, 4 May 97 14:00 PDT X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Bird Pattern Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 16:56:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May4.125639.0> References: <<199705041917.PAA27187@uz.comcat.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Thanks Suzanne, I did not ask originally, but was needing some "bird" patterns for work for one of the Wildlife Rehab stations here. Does anyone have any suggestions not listed below for "Water or Wading Birds" ????? BTW-the large panel "study in Blue' I am working on is a abstract pattern by Allen Kenoyer Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations suzanne albright wrote: > 1. Judy Miller, House Tours, p. 78 Eagle > 2. Mark & Susan Walton, 200 Design Ideas for Stained Glass, several > eagles, one full-size at back of book inside an oval > 3. Carolyn Relei, Bird Designs, Owl p. 30, Eagle p. 28, > 4. Judy Miller, Birds & Flowers, Owl p. 78 > 5. Allen Kenoyer Glass, Pattern Book 3, Eagle p. 35 > 6. Judy Miller, House Tours International, Eagle p. 97 > 7. Art Glass Images, Thomas Morin,II, Owls p. 63 & 41, Eagles p. 38 & 39 > 8. Judy Miller, House Tours II, Eagle p. 40 > 9. Gloria Fohr, Southwest Expressions, Eagle p.44 > and last, but not least, > 10. Renee Martig, Inspired by Nature, 3 Owls p.49, Owl p.40, Eagles p.12 > & 13 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 14:18:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO8fJ-0000n2a; Sun, 4 May 97 14:17 PDT X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:16:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May4.131649.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Amen, Albert! Sounds pretty yucky to me, too. Michael's comment was " the overlay people might go for it, but then again, it would probably be too much work them". I don't think this studio will be trying it anytime real soon. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 14:30:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO8rQ-00011la; Sun, 4 May 97 14:30 PDT X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199705042130.RAA10174@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert wrote, > > >I'm sorry ... plastic came? In an array of colors? Eeeyeuw! I really wanted to order the pink....do you think it comes in pink??? That happens to be my fav. color. > >Albert Lewis, Executive Director >International Guild of Glass Artists >A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization >Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 >(914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 >_________________________________________________________ >http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] >http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] >http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 14:38:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO8yq-00016Va; Sun, 4 May 97 14:38 PDT X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:38:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199705042138.RAA10352@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >HI Albert, > >I'm sorry ... plastic came? In an array of colors? Eeeyeuw! > I'll bet Julie loves this one!!! Can you imagine, restorations in colored came???? Or how about "lets repair those "Rose Windows" with some of that new plastic came?" What will they think of next???? Lead free lead??? Or how about Historic decals?"You too can create great commission using our wonderful handpainted decals." Or maybe Stained Glass Overlay (oops sorry thats been done). Shrinky Dinks for big bucks!!! my best, (and sarcastic) pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 14:42:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO92h-0000tta; Sun, 4 May 97 14:42 PDT X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199705042141.RAA10454@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani wrote, >Amen, Albert! Sounds pretty yucky to me, too. Michael's comment was " the >overlay people might go for it, but then again, it would probably be too >much work them". I don't think this studio will be trying it anytime real >soon. > Do overlay people know how to do lead????? I tend to agree with Michael, way to much work. And all those little piece of GLASS!!!! (Sorry I couldn't resist) Our local overlay person acutally lies to his clients.....and I happily tell them the truth!!! In fact we keep a panel right here in the studio and SHOW everyone how easy the stuff comes apart. my best, pj ( must be the paint fumes getting to me) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 15:24:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO9hN-0000ika; Sun, 4 May 97 15:24 PDT X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:31:09 +0000 Message-ID: <199705042224.SAA21826@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >" the > >overlay people might go for it, but then again, it would probably be too > >much work them". I don't think this studio will be trying it anytime real > >soon. I missed that one. Fell onto the floor, laughing. > clients.....and I happily tell them the truth!!! In fact we keep a panel > right here in the studio and SHOW everyone how easy the stuff comes apart. Oy! Don't get me started on SGO. They get way too defensive and have far too many attorneys. Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 15:41:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wO9xm-00004ra; Sun, 4 May 97 15:41 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 18:38:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May4.143842.0> References: <<199705041812.OAA11491@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > I can see the plastic came having some beginner hobbyist applications, but > > for my personal 2 cents worth, I don't think I will be working with it. The > > add shows a full array of colors as well. > > I'm sorry ... plastic came? In an array of colors? Eeeyeuw! > > Albert Lewis, Executive Director > International Guild of Glass Artists > A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization > Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 > (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 > _________________________________________________________ > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, it may not have the applications for say a church or something. but i can see it being used in an architecutal sense, i've seen a alot of weird things put together. and i guess some suncatchers. though if used like that a good selling pint would be that it has no lead in it at all. and as long as you welded the joints tight, it should hold up...but as for me i'll stick with the foil... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 15:59:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOAFi-0000gTa; Sun, 4 May 97 15:59 PDT X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 18:55:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May4.145555.0> References: <<199705042138.RAA10352@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi pj, My thoughts exactly, ;-) but it got everyone chatting again :), However for small unusual projects, it might have a place (in colors no less) Everyone look at the ad page 6 Spring Issue-Glass Patterns Quarterly, and the project-Jewelry Box Lid page 89. Design by Mark Waterbury, Fabrication by Dave Burnett, Text by Marilyn Bryan. SGO I have seen a couple of years after application, yuuuukkkkkkyyyyy!!!!!!!!! Anyway, since a lot of "hobbyist's" (in the best sense, not being derogatory) (and many of our bungi members think of themselves as hobbiest') see Glass Patterns Quarterly, Studios and Stores are going to have questions on 'Plastic Came'. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations pj wrote: > I'll bet Julie loves this one!!! Can you imagine, restorations in colored > came???? > > Or how about "lets repair those "Rose Windows" with some of that new plastic > came?" > > What will they think of next???? > > Lead free lead??? Or how about Historic decals?"You too can create great > commission using our wonderful handpainted decals." > Or maybe Stained Glass Overlay (oops sorry thats been done). Shrinky Dinks > for big bucks!!! > > my best, (and sarcastic) > pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 16:41:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOAtw-0000gZa; Sun, 4 May 97 16:41 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Plastic Came-----hand-painted polka dots! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:48:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199705042340.AAA19513@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Albert, PJ, Dani et al, Naahhh! I'll go for the pink ones with red polka-dots, to create those happy personal touches in the village church restoration window! Would sort of go nicely with the latest current affairs here in UK, where the fashion colour has turned rose-red and the fashion flower of today a red rose and where we have all "seen red" from the last 6 weeks election campaigns. New kid on the block! So pink plastic came with red polka dots for me please!!! Lee - you get the "wooden spoon" prize!!!! Do you have that concept Across The Pond?? (How COULD you...? I am ashamed of you ;-) Tomorrow (Monday) is a bank holiday here, no computer college for me, no post, no customers, no phones. It will give me chance to catch up on lots of mail, replies and thank-you notes; looking at brochures from Sarasota, copperfoil curriculum and making the penultimate "push" to finishing the double panels for the Methodist Church, before the 82-year old "girl" blows her top. PLASTIC came! I ask you! What is the world coming to?? Elisabeth 'n Toby You wrote: ... plastic came? In an array of colors? Eeeyeuw! I'll bet Julie loves this one!!! Can you imagine, restorations in colored came???? Or how about "lets repair those "Rose Windows" with some of that new plastic came?" What will they think of next???? Lead free lead??? Or how about Historic decals?"You too can create great commission using our wonderful handpainted decals." Or maybe Stained Glass Overlay (oops sorry thats been done). Shrinky Dinks for big bucks!!! ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 16:42:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOAtw-00004ja; Sun, 4 May 97 16:41 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Pattern Shears Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:48:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199705042340.AAA19510@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sue Reitmann, Thought that I would obviously be fairly close to the German source here, so have been looking through all and everything to try and find out out the German manufacturer. What do I find? Pattern shears we get over here come from "Inland", so no use to you. On the other hand, as you are perhaps aware, pattern shears are not much used on the whole, as we tend to cut glass "The English Method" ;-) I did try - sorry :-( Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 16:51:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOB41-0000noa; Sun, 4 May 97 16:51 PDT X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 19:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199705042351.TAA13480@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike wrote, > >well, it may not have the applications for say a church or something. >but i can see it being used in an architecutal sense, i've seen a alot >of weird things put together. and i guess some suncatchers. though if >used like that a good selling pint would be that it has no lead in it at >all. and as long as you welded the joints tight, it should hold up...but >as for me i'll stick with the foil... > Well the enviornmentialist should love it......and those who think that the lead should be taken out of lead, should love it. Just think you could market it as "child proof". Lead-free suncatchers.......even your children will be safe. And Mike, when they take the lead out of solder and make plastic solder...what then??? (Only teasing...the coffee is kicking in). pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 17:04:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOBGJ-00001Va; Sun, 4 May 97 17:04 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 20:01:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May4.16158.0> References: <<199705042351.TAA13480@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk pj friend wrote: > > Mike wrote, > > > > >well, it may not have the applications for say a church or something. > >but i can see it being used in an architecutal sense, i've seen a alot > >of weird things put together. and i guess some suncatchers. though if > >used like that a good selling pint would be that it has no lead in it at > >all. and as long as you welded the joints tight, it should hold up...but > >as for me i'll stick with the foil... > > > Well the enviornmentialist should love it......and those who think that the > lead should be taken out of lead, should love it. Just think you could > market it as "child proof". Lead-free suncatchers.......even your children > will be safe. > > And Mike, when they take the lead out of solder and make plastic > solder...what then??? > (Only teasing...the coffee is kicking in). > > pj > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass wehn they create something as good as solder, i'll think about it. though i've always wanted copper or brass solder. as in copper it would be nice, instead of a tin lead mixture, to have it start out at as a low temp copper. some day i guess... it would take a green patina real easy anyway. though i dunno how marketable it would be... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 18:12:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOCK4-0000gda; Sun, 4 May 97 18:12 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May4.171138.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I just read that article. I don't think that it would be something that I would like. Seems to me (IMHO) that it would not do too well for a larger project such as a window or even a smaller piece say 12 x 12". It has a center core of metal but I feel that it would not be strong enough for a larger project other than a box or suncatcher. Therefore, I don't think I would even try using it. Looking forward to other opinions. Thanks for the topic. I think it is an important one. Bubstah ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 18:16:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOCNT-0000Kga; Sun, 4 May 97 18:15 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May4.171528.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk "Them's my sentiments. DITTO" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 18:25:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOCWn-0000cia; Sun, 4 May 97 18:25 PDT X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Sun, 4 May 97 21:27:46 -0400 Message-ID: <199705050125.VAA09433@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I just read that article. . <>Therefore, I don't think I would even try using it. >Looking forward to other opinions.. >Bubstah OK, here's my humble opinion: Even if it were strong enough, do we *want to enclose our precious glass creations in *plastic? Particularly *colored plastic? Read Elisabeth 'n Toby's reply. She said it very eloquently! I agree with her 100%. - Suzanne >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > suzanne albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 19:56:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wODwO-0000jba; Sun, 4 May 97 19:55 PDT X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Pattern shears Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 23:00:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970504230051.006a6f80@pop.bridge.net> References: <<1997May4.9419.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, This is going to sound a little dumb, but I got mine from that wholesale only place on the east coast of Florida about mid state ... think it's in Vero Beach or somewhere close to that. I can't recall the name (obviously) but someone on list must know it ... FWIW ... maybe not much! Cheers, M.-J. At 01:04 PM 5/4/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Sue- > >Glad to get some bungi mail - I was starting to go into withdrawal! > >I am looking for the West German pattern shears. Have tried all the >wholesalers including Bendheim and no luck - I don't think anybody carries >them anymore. I'm hoping that somebody in the group has an old pair >stuffed in a drawer somewhere, or a European member might be able to give >me some tips on where to acquire a pair. Thanks and I'm keeping my fingers >crossed! > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 21:27:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOFLB-0000qKa; Sun, 4 May 97 21:25 PDT X-Path: mail.netshop.net!eady From: eady@mail.netshop.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: maillist Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199705050425.VAA02519@freya.van.hookup.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Finally spring has arrived in Northern British Columbia. Gardening season, so please delete me from the mail list. See you in the fall. Pat Eady ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 21:37:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOFVt-0000mYa; Sun, 4 May 97 21:36 PDT X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs From: SusieHUs@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Pattern shears Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May4.203629.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-05-04 23:00:39 EDT, you write: << >I am looking for the West German pattern shears. >> Why are you looking for them? What is it that makes them special to you? Susie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 4 21:37:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOFWE-00012Va; Sun, 4 May 97 21:36 PDT X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs From: SusieHUs@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May4.203654.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-05-04 19:53:38 EDT, you write: << Lead-free suncatchers.......even your children will be safe. >> This will only be an added value if your kids have a propensity for chewing on stained glass work and only if you usually let them! Being new at glass work altogether (in a class making my first piece - with LEAD came, thank you very much), what boggles my mind is this: What do they use to keep that stuff A)on the glass and B) together? Since it's plastic, I'm assuming that soldering would be out. Do they hold a Bic lighter under it and wait til it melts together at the joints? Susie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 05:42:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wON5K-0000g5a; Mon, 5 May 97 05:41 PDT X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: How to for wiring lamps, etc. Date: Mon, 05 May 97 08:33:34 EDT Message-ID: <970505.084128.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1997May4.6754.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I actually find that places such as Home Depot have rather limited lampmaking supplies (although they do carry the basics). Just try to find a 6 inch harp through a hardware store (my local True Value checked and didn't even have it in its catalog, probably because it isn't in the Angelo catalog.) Yet the local stained glass store just plucked one out of a box for me. I am thinking about making some bases of oak and I am wondering if adding a weight in the bottom might be a good idea...if I can find appropriate weights. Dorothy -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 05:52:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wONFp-0000nYa; Mon, 5 May 97 05:52 PDT X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Plastic Came-----hand-painted polka dots! Date: Mon, 05 May 97 08:48:37 EDT Message-ID: <970505.085224.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<199705042340.AAA19513@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Those of us who do craft fairs are going to find ourselves, one day, down the row from someone who's used plastic came and it's going to be flying off the rack and we're going to think..maybe it's not so bad. Then someone will want to special order one of our designs in their livinig room colors, and BTW, can we use that blue stuff for the lines? (Elisabeth, only six-week election campaigns...we should be so lucky! Lately it seems, the campaigning never stops.) -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 06:11:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wONXa-0000Bqa; Mon, 5 May 97 06:10 PDT X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:10:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199705051310.JAA27073@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Susie wrote, >In a message dated 97-05-04 19:53:38 EDT, you write: > ><< Lead-free suncatchers.......even your children will be safe. >> > >This will only be an added value if your kids have a propensity for chewing >on stained glass work and only if you usually let them! > Exactly what I meant!!!! pj> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 06:11:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wONXx-0000fva; Mon, 5 May 97 06:11 PDT X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: How to for wiring lamps, etc. Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 09:07:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May5.5740.0> References: <<970505.084128.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Dorothy, My Home Depot here has a lot of lamp stuff, all sizes, but each store may stock different supplies. On the weighing of the lamp base-Lead fishing weights, and some Fitness Supply shops sell lead by the pound. Less expensive than solder for this purpose. If you have a torch, it is not hard to melt in small quantities, and cast into the shape you want. Use sand casting, or something similar. If you need more info. e-mail me. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > I am thinking about making some bases of oak and I am wondering if > adding a weight in the bottom might be a good idea...if I can > find appropriate weights. > Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 06:19:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wONfn-0000tua; Mon, 5 May 97 06:19 PDT X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Plastic Came-----hand-painted polka dots! Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:19:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199705051319.JAA27336@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dorothy wrote, >Those of us who do craft fairs are going to find ourselves, one day, >down the row from someone who's used plastic came and it's going to >be flying off the rack and we're going to think..maybe it's not so >bad. Then someone will want to special order one of our designs in >their livinig room colors, and BTW, can we use that blue stuff for the >lines? Well Dorothy, I don't think I would go so far to think it not so bad. I don't take responsibility for anyone else's bad taste. They also make fimo. And that stuff makes me cringe. And now on a positive note..... . Stained and leaded glass in the old world tradition is alive and well. And I do get my lead levels checked once a year!!!! my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 07:14:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOOX1-000118a; Mon, 5 May 97 07:14 PDT X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Pattern shears Date: Mon, 05 May 97 09:19:53 PDT Message-ID: <1997May5.161953.0> References: <<1997May4.203629.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am also interested in what differences there are between the West Germa= n pattern shears, and the shears that are sold in the U.S. Can you tell = us about them? Dawn > << >I am looking for the West German pattern shears. >> > > > Why are you looking for them? What is it that makes them special to = you? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 07:22:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOOeS-0000oWa; Mon, 5 May 97 07:22 PDT X-Path: cenebank.nl!mstreng From: Martin Streng To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Re: Plastic Came-----hand-painted polka dots! Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 16:20:21 +0200 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970505142021.00664ee8@solair1.inter.nl.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Long hair!! Loud music!=20 Strange manners, why can=B4t they do it OUR WAY? Sixties revisited? Martin Streng BTW: still in lead. At 09:19 5-05-97 -0400, you wrote: >Well Dorothy, I don't think I would go so far to think it not so bad. I >don't take responsibility for anyone else's bad taste. > >They also make fimo. And that stuff makes me cringe. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 07:23:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOOfe-00014xa; Mon, 5 May 97 07:23 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 10:20:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May5.62051.0> References: <<1997May4.203654.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk SusieHUs@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-05-04 19:53:38 EDT, you write: > > << Lead-free suncatchers.......even your children will be safe. >> > > This will only be an added value if your kids have a propensity for chewing > on stained glass work and only if you usually let them! > > Being new at glass work altogether (in a class making my first piece - with > LEAD came, thank you very much), what boggles my mind is this: > > What do they use to keep that stuff A)on the glass and B) together? > > Since it's plastic, I'm assuming that soldering would be out. Do they hold a > Bic lighter under it and wait til it melts together at the joints? > > Susie > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass they have a plastic soldering iron, i think it's like the autobody type. and, yeah, you basically melt or add more plastic to the joints, from what i can tell. though i can't really see it as being very strong though. though if suncatchers a prone to popping off a window, and you have a baby, they could wander into it's mouth. though if i baby could tear an eye off a toy, they could probably rip this thing apart too. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 07:27:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOOj7-000124a; Mon, 5 May 97 07:26 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: How to for wiring lamps, etc. Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 10:24:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May5.62428.0> References: <<970505.084128.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > I actually find that places such as Home Depot have rather limited > lampmaking supplies (although they do carry the basics). Just try > to find a 6 inch harp through a hardware store (my local True Value > checked and didn't even have it in its catalog, probably because it > isn't in the Angelo catalog.) Yet the local stained glass store just > plucked one out of a box for me. > I am thinking about making some bases of oak and I am wondering if > adding a weight in the bottom might be a good idea...if I can > find appropriate weights. > > Dorothy > > -- that depends on how tall the base is going to be. if it's a table lamp, the bottom of the base should be on the wide side, but keeping in proportion with the shade. if it's a floor lamp, then yeah, it'd probably be a good idea. for supplies, basic stuff i get at a hardware, or a stained glass store. but an electric supply store works even better. they usually have the extra stuff, like angles, splitters, all different sizes of caps, etc. that's where i got most of my hardware for my lamp. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 07:30:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOOmX-00014da; Mon, 5 May 97 07:30 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Plastic Came-----hand-painted polka dots! Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 10:28:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May5.6280.0> References: <<970505.085224.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > Those of us who do craft fairs are going to find ourselves, one day, > down the row from someone who's used plastic came and it's going to > be flying off the rack and we're going to think..maybe it's not so > bad. Then someone will want to special order one of our designs in > their livinig room colors, and BTW, can we use that blue stuff for the > lines? > (Elisabeth, only six-week election campaigns...we should be so lucky! > Lately it seems, the campaigning never stops.) > > -- maybe, and probably, it's alot like the plastic stuff they pass off as real stained glass. some little crafter, calling themselves a big shot, will get some book designs, and use plasti-came, and make a bunch of stuff. it's bound to happen, we'll just have to turn our noses up at it. :) though this stuff is more limiting then metal came. at least in came (metal), even in the ugliest suncatcher, you can have wire overlays, a little 3-d, etc. and of course you still really can't make a descent looking box with it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 07:35:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOOrB-0000k9a; Mon, 5 May 97 07:35 PDT X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Plastic Came Date: Mon, 05 May 97 09:40:38 PDT Message-ID: <1997May5.164038.0> References: <<1997May4.203654.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Not too long ago someone wrote to the group asking about the safety of = involving her 9-year old daughter in the art of stained glass. Of course= , the consensus was that the lead would be harmful to a child. Although I abhor the thought of plastic came, perhaps that is where their= marketing niche might be. If the child is interested in working with = the parent in stained glass, perhaps this would be a way to accomplish = this, providing the parent cuts and grinds the glass for the child. I = think this would greatly diminish the risk to the child, while still lett= ing the child experiment with other components, such as design, color, = texture. While we might loathe the window done with the colored plastic came by = the studio down the street, we would probably treasure the first piece = of stained glass put together by our child, with plastic came and all. = Dawn > << Lead-free suncatchers.......even your children will be safe. >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 07:37:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOOsi-00011ta; Mon, 5 May 97 07:36 PDT X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Plastic Came-----hand-painted polka dots! Date: Mon, 05 May 97 09:42:13 PDT Message-ID: <1997May5.164213.0> References: <<199705051319.JAA27336@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > They also make fimo. And that stuff makes me cringe. P.J., What is "fimo"? Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 07:49:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOP4H-0000g8a; Mon, 5 May 97 07:48 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Plastic Came Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 10:46:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May5.64624.0> References: <<1997May5.164038.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dawn wrote: > > Not too long ago someone wrote to the group asking about the safety of = > involving her 9-year old daughter in the art of stained glass. Of course= > , the consensus was that the lead would be harmful to a child. > > Although I abhor the thought of plastic came, perhaps that is where their= > marketing niche might be. If the child is interested in working with = > the parent in stained glass, perhaps this would be a way to accomplish = > this, providing the parent cuts and grinds the glass for the child. I = > think this would greatly diminish the risk to the child, while still lett= > ing the child experiment with other components, such as design, color, = > texture. > > While we might loathe the window done with the colored plastic came by = > the studio down the street, we would probably treasure the first piece = > of stained glass put together by our child, with plastic came and all. = > > > Dawn > > > << Lead-free suncatchers.......even your children will be safe. >> > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass 9 years old is ok, i was 9 when i first started well the 9-10 year border anyway. lead was really never a huge concern for me, unless i stuck it in my mouth. and besides half of the fun is cutting out the glass. the only safe thing (sort of) for the kid to do is picking out the glass. they usually won't know how to design something properly, etc, etc. and they still have to weld the joints together, which means istead of breathing a bit of lead and flux. they'd be sucking in the fumes the plastic gave off. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 07:49:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOP4v-00011Za; Mon, 5 May 97 07:49 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Plastic Came-----hand-painted polka dots! Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 10:47:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May5.64710.0> References: <<1997May5.164213.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dawn wrote: > > > They also make fimo. And that stuff makes me cringe. > > P.J., > > What is "fimo"? > > Dawn > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass is'nt fimo that clay that hardens in the stove, used to make ugly beads and things like that? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 08:23:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOPb3-00003la; Mon, 5 May 97 08:22 PDT X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Plastic Came-----hand-painted polka dots! Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199705051522.LAA01129@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike wrote, :is'nt fimo that clay that hardens in the stove, used to make ugly beads >and things like that? >> BINGO!!!! You won the prize. pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 08:46:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOPxp-0000e5a; Mon, 5 May 97 08:46 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:45:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199705051545.KAA15055@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>I'm sorry ... plastic came? In an array of colors? Eeeyeuw! > >I really wanted to order the pink....do you think it comes in pink??? That >happens to be my fav. color. Hi Bungists, Back in the days when I used to make stained glass windows for a living, I used painted came in two projects. One was a 16 foot long stylized map of the Mississippi River and it's tributaries. In that case I used blue painted came to represent some of the smaller tributaries. Since this was a interior partition using borrowed light, I felt that the reflective value of the painted came was appropriate. The second was an all pink underwater scene in an all pink bathroom (PJ would love it) in that case I outlined the fish in pink, a whimsical thing. I used opaque paint markers and it held up suprisingly well I have seen other work with painted came exclusively in goemetric designs, and I thought it looked okay... as a juxtiposed design element. You professionals out there seem to spend all your energy trying to perfect your skills, us hobbyists on the other hand just want to have some fun and try out new things so try and lighten up a little and don't be so smug and arrogant for cryin' out loud. Yes... I am trying to bait you :-) Len --*** Builder of the world's largest stained glass loon (I think) 9 feet long ***-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 10:21:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wORSA-0000taa; Mon, 5 May 97 10:21 PDT X-Path: das.honeywell.com!frank.lerner From: "Lerner, Frank M (NM75)" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Plastic Came-----hand-painted polka dots! Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:21:42 -0600 Message-ID: <1997May5.52142.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I thought it was called PENDO. >---------- >From: artglass@water.waterw.com[SMTP:artglass@water.waterw.com] >Sent: Monday, May 05, 1997 9:22AM >To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: Re: Plastic Came-----hand-painted polka dots! > >Mike wrote, > >:is'nt fimo that clay that hardens in the stove, used to make ugly beads >>and things like that? >>> >BINGO!!!! You won the prize. > >pj > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 10:34:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wORei-0000nHa; Mon, 5 May 97 10:34 PDT X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Subject: Pattern shears Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:33:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May5.93331.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Why do I want W. German shears? Because they cut a narrower kerf; consequently, the glass pieces are a hair larger resulting in a tighter fit when building the window. This can become important in a window with lots of pieces. If you're constantly fighting shrinkage while your building (and I do! Of course, It may be just fate - heaven forbid that we have too much fun!), part of the problem may well be the shears you've used. The Japanese shears are close to the German ones, but not as well made. The German shears have a larger thumb hole and smoother action, too. In general, they're just a better tool. When ya do it for a living, good tools (and the right tools for the individual ) become very important. Sometimes finding just exactly the right piece of equipment becomes a downright obsession! Thanks for all your interest and help :-) Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 12:02:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOT1F-00016La; Mon, 5 May 97 12:01 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Pattern shears Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:00:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199705051900.OAA22889@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Japanese shears are close to the German ones, but not as well made. The >German shears have a larger thumb hole and smoother action, too. In >general, they're just a better tool. Hi Dani, The best shears I've come across were made right here in the good old USA They are square nose multi piece with handles of plated bronze with very nice tool steel blades made by Accurate Machine and Mfg. St Louis Mo. Great balance and ergos IMHO I don't know if they are still being made, I borrowed mine from a studio I worked for and forgot to return them.. darn... pilferage? yeah, guilty as charged :-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 14:29:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOVJS-0000fFa; Mon, 5 May 97 14:28 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 17:26:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May5.132628.0> References: <<199705051545.KAA15055@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk len alcamo wrote: > > >>I'm sorry ... plastic came? In an array of colors? Eeeyeuw! > > > >I really wanted to order the pink....do you think it comes in pink??? That > >happens to be my fav. color. > > Hi Bungists, > > Back in the days when I used to make stained glass windows for a living, I > used painted came in two projects. One was a 16 foot long stylized map of > the Mississippi River and it's tributaries. In that case I used blue painted > came to represent some of the smaller tributaries. Since this was a interior > partition using borrowed light, I felt that the reflective value of the > painted came was appropriate. The second was an all pink underwater scene in > an all pink bathroom (PJ would love it) in that case I outlined the fish in > pink, a whimsical thing. I used opaque paint markers and it held up > suprisingly well > > I have seen other work with painted came exclusively in goemetric designs, > and I thought it looked okay... as a juxtiposed design element. > > You professionals out there seem to spend all your energy trying to perfect > your skills, us hobbyists on the other hand just want to have some fun and > try out new things so try and lighten up a little and don't be so smug and > arrogant for cryin' out loud. > > Yes... I am trying to bait you :-) > > Len > > --*** Builder of the world's largest stained glass loon (I think) 9 feet > long ***-- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i think the colored came would be neat if it were just htat...colored. like brass capped came, have it in colors, but make it solderable too somehow. this way you can highlight sections in a piece, and still keep it strong. the main think i don't like about the plastic stuff is, it does'nt look very strong. (at least in window applications). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 5 17:58:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOYZP-00001Ja; Mon, 5 May 97 17:57 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Plastic Came-----hand-painted polka dots! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 01:04:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199705060057.BAA15415@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Diorothy, Your comments remind me of one hilarious incident at The british National Gallery in London, many years ago. Amongst many exhibits was a Piccasso painting called "Lady in Blue". A foreign tourist visiting the Gallery spent literally hours in front of it, peering, staring, moving forward to see better, moving backwards to see better, side-ways one way and so on. I abandoned the spectacle with my friends and moved on to the other exhibits, but eventually caught sight of this foreign gentlemen again in the book/postcard/poster shop. He had pulled out a poster of this painting, waved it in the air, moved towards the sales assistant and asked in a loud and penetrating voice: "Excuse me Miss! Have you got this one in PINK??" Hooray for pink cames with hand-painted red polka dots!!! P.S. Everything "sags" with age..... ;-) Elisabeth 'n Toby Dorothy wrote: Then someone will want to special order one of our designs in their livinig room colors, and BTW, can we use that blue stuff for the lines? (Elisabeth, only six-week election campaigns...we should be so lucky! Lately it seems, the campaigning never stops.) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 05:03:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOix3-000055a; Tue, 6 May 97 05:02 PDT X-Path: concentric.net!shmfcoop From: "M. Cooper" To: glass@bungi.com. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Swan pattern Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 08:04:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1997May6.1453.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm usually just a lurker here, but anyone advise me where I can find a nice pattern of a swan? Thanks, Meigan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 05:51:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOjhw-0001Fga; Tue, 6 May 97 05:51 PDT X-Path: mail.bcpl.lib.md.us!panthony From: "last name: Anthony" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Subject: glass cutting, water, etc Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 08:51:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May6.45114.0> References: <<199705051900.OAA22889@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Apropos of the discussionn about why use oil or water to run a score, and Mike's references to cutting glass underwater with a scissors, see this on Spectrum's site: http://www.spectrumglass.com/Library/ScoreArticles/NoFishStory.html --SB ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 06:12:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOk21-00018Ea; Tue, 6 May 97 06:11 PDT X-Path: ngai.com!pjnjril From: "Paula Nelson" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: some glass i got Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:05:53 +0000 Message-ID: <199705061313.IAA24734@email6.starnetinc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: vom Uitland rottz at the Glass Dog Studio Precedence: bulk > Bullseye - opalescent, ring mottled orange with yellow mottles on the > back. it's about 20"x30" i payed $15.00. I think that's a VERY good price for a sheet that large... one of the places I go to frequently (but don't buy from unless I REALLY gotta have it ;) has Bullseye mottled for $15 for 12x12! Paula ____________________________________________________________ Paula Nelson pjnjril@ngai.com http://pwp.starnetinc.com/pjnjril/uitland.htm The Glass Dog Studio - featuring Rottweilers in Glass (708) 399-6791 VoiceMail Pager "Life is too short to work weak dogs" ____________________________________________________________ "No slack - but that doesn't make us bad people" SCPCC 13-96 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 06:16:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOk6F-0000hRa; Tue, 6 May 97 06:16 PDT X-Path: scc.net!oddjob From: Reitmann To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: cost for lessons Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 08:13:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1997May6.31351.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I was appproached by someone (unkown to me) requesting private one on = one lessons. She requested using all of my tools and equipment for these = lessons. She would like to learn the basics of both lead and foil,doing one = project each. My questions: 1. is this a reasonable request 2. how many lessons should this encompass 3. how much to charge I know time is an important factor here and right now I am caught up on = my commissions and these lessons wouldn't interfer. I have just opened = my studio and am trying to build up my business. All input greatly = appreciated. Thanks in advance: Sue Reitmann ( oddjob@scc.net ) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 06:25:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOkF7-0000jna; Tue, 6 May 97 06:25 PDT X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Swan pattern Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 08:28:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970506082839.0069c4e8@busprod.com> References: <<1997May6.1453.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Hi, I'm usually just a lurker here, but anyone advise me where I can >find a nice pattern of a swan? Thanks, Meigan Meigan...There's a nice swan among the reeds in a pattern book called: "200 Design Ideas For Stained Glass," by Mark & Susan Walton. CKE Publications. I've never been a "swan lover," but this pattern has a certain serenity to it. Hope this helps...LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 06:36:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOkPW-0001A0a; Tue, 6 May 97 06:36 PDT X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: shipping stained glass Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 08:39:23 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970506083923.006a8a50@busprod.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Ok, I don't know if this ever went thru for me the other day...if it did, ignore it and bear with me. I really could use some input, however... I was curious if others out there shipped their work to customers? I use 2 day priority mail for all of my gift items (I've had 2 packages lost in the past 6 months due to UPS!), but I'm doing a window for a customer in another state (I'm in Oklahoma, he's in Arizona.)...a sidelight approx. 1 ft. x 5ft. any thoughts as to shipping the piece? UPS, USPS, Fed Ex, etc...? Any other brainstorms as to how to package/crate it? Do I crate it myself, or rely on the shipping company? I'd appreciate the info. thanks, LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 06:56:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOkjK-00019da; Tue, 6 May 97 06:56 PDT X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar From: KrissyMar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: cost for lessons Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May6.55621.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am not sure what you should charge for lessons, but I would advise you to have the person get her own cutter. If you use a cutter wrong, you can ruin it in one swipe. Krissy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 07:43:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOlSK-0000w0a; Tue, 6 May 97 07:43 PDT X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: cost for lessons Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 09:46:23 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970506094623.006a84f8@busprod.com> References: <<1997May6.31351.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I was appproached by someone (unkown to me) requesting private one on >one lessons. She requested using all of my tools and equipment for these >lessons. >My questions: >1. is this a reasonable request >2. how many lessons should this encompass >3. how much to charge Sue... There are a number of things to consider. Perhaps you should give yourself a chance to see if there is are a number of people and run a class if you have the time and space necessary. I was approached with much the same notion by a couple of gals (friends of a friend). I put out a flyer and some word of mouth and I had a class of 6 for my first go! More people were interested than I had thought. I came up with some prices for the classes by researching what adult ed classes at local schools were charging. A syllabus of sorts and materials sheet were mailed to students 2 weeks before classes started so they would have time to shop for supplies. This way they were prepared to dive in on the first evening. Do you run a retail shop along with your studio? Friends of mine in Illinois offer special prices and packages to their students. Since I do not run a retail store along with my studio, I found my local shop was more than willing to offer a small discount to my students...after all, they hope the students stay with the craft and shop there! I used a book called, "Introduction To Stained Glass: A Teaching Manual" from Wardell Publications. It was the perfect starter manual. It starts with the basics in lead & copper foil and goes to advanced projects like lamps and boxes. Nothing overly in depth, but enough info to get going...it also has patterns for a number of projects included. Hopefully it's still available! I've run on, but I would choose this way again rather than having a newbie use my tools...sounds possesive, I know! LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 08:40:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOmKe-0001BJa; Tue, 6 May 97 08:39 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: some glass i got Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 11:36:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May6.73647.0> References: <<199705061313.IAA24734@email6.starnetinc.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Paula Nelson wrote: > > > Bullseye - opalescent, ring mottled orange with yellow mottles on the > > back. it's about 20"x30" i payed $15.00. > > I think that's a VERY good price for a sheet that large... one of > the places I go to frequently (but don't buy from unless I REALLY > gotta have it ;) has Bullseye mottled for $15 for 12x12! > > Paula > ____________________________________________________________ > > Paula Nelson > pjnjril@ngai.com > http://pwp.starnetinc.com/pjnjril/uitland.htm > > The Glass Dog Studio - featuring Rottweilers in Glass > (708) 399-6791 VoiceMail Pager > > "Life is too short to work weak dogs" > ____________________________________________________________ > "No slack - but that doesn't make us bad people" SCPCC 13-96 > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah alot of the glass was at least 1/2 off, but by now she's probably moved away, but i wanted to see how good a bargain i got for what i bought. usally i always say to myself and others "always take advantage of a good deal". when it comes time to it, i never follow that, usually at a store i'll spend around $100 and i'll get basic supplies and a couple sheets of glass. but when i'm not in a store enviroment, it's more penetrating when i see the money go. but i figure i got around $500-$700 worth of glass if i bought it retail, and i paid around $250 for it all. and there was still quite a bit of glass left. youg. was $5.00 a sheet (12x16), urobors around $4.00 for the same size. that fibroid for $2.00 8x12, though i'm still looking for that one price wise, it had a date going back to the 80's. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 08:43:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOmNZ-000103a; Tue, 6 May 97 08:42 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: cost for lessons Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 11:39:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May6.73950.0> References: <<1997May6.31351.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Reitmann wrote: > > I was appproached by someone (unkown to me) requesting private one on = > one lessons. She requested using all of my tools and equipment for these = > lessons. > She would like to learn the basics of both lead and foil,doing one = > project each. > My questions: > 1. is this a reasonable request > 2. how many lessons should this encompass > 3. how much to charge > I know time is an important factor here and right now I am caught up on = > my commissions and these lessons wouldn't interfer. I have just opened = > my studio and am trying to build up my business. All input greatly = > appreciated. > Thanks in advance: > Sue Reitmann ( oddjob@scc.net ) > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i'm not sure what to charge, but i'd first give her a list of the equipment she needs to buy. other wise your well treated tools may get hurt. normally in a class situation, the only things of yours that are or should be used by students, are: the tables, maybe a fid, the grinder, sink, bandaids, and maybe some pencils and stuff. otherwise she'll get a cheap lesson, and you'll end up with abused tools. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 08:47:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOmSI-0001CRa; Tue, 6 May 97 08:47 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: shipping stained glass Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 11:44:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May6.74441.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19970506083923.006a8a50@busprod.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LJ Maas wrote: > > Ok, I don't know if this ever went thru for me the other day...if it did, > ignore it and bear with me. I really could use some input, however... > > I was curious if others out there shipped their work to customers? I use 2 > day priority mail for all of my gift items (I've had 2 packages lost in the > past 6 months due to UPS!), but I'm doing a window for a customer in > another state (I'm in Oklahoma, he's in Arizona.)...a sidelight approx. 1 > ft. x 5ft. > > any thoughts as to shipping the piece? UPS, USPS, Fed Ex, etc...? Any other > brainstorms as to how to package/crate it? Do I crate it myself, or rely on > the shipping company? I'd appreciate the info. > thanks, LJ > **************************************************************** > LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com > ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design > "Unique Stained Glass Creations" > > > OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well if you rely on a shipping company to pack it for you, they may be able to insure that it does'nt break, then pay you if it does (i'm just guessing here). i would'nt do it throught the mail. i use UPS for everything, there would be an extra charge if it is'nt in a box, i'd probably overnight it (add shipping to your final costs), this way there would be less handling of it. fed-ex may work as well, they have less restriction of how big something is, unlike UPS. but they either have over night or 2-day. you may also want to put signiture required so it's not left on the door step, fed-ex; it's built in to the form. UPS they charge around a 1.00 or so. it mainly protects from bad weather, and thieves. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 10:35:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOo8B-0001Eza; Tue, 6 May 97 10:34 PDT X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: bashful To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: cost for lessons Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 13:33:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1997May6.6337.0> References: <<1997May6.31351.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Heretics United Precedence: bulk Reitmann wrote: > > I was appproached by someone (unkown to me) requesting private one on = > one lessons. She requested using all of my tools and equipment for these = > lessons. > She would like to learn the basics of both lead and foil,doing one = > project each. > My questions: > 1. is this a reasonable request That depends on what YOU are comfortable doing. The sceptical(sp) part of me wonders why no investment in tools- does she just want two panels, and this is a cheaper way of getting them? > 2. how many lessons should this encompass that depends on their learning curve > 3. how much to charge The person I learned from had figured out what an evenings time was worth to him if he was doing revenue producing work, then divided by the desired class size. He hadn't given a lead class in years, cuz he couldn't get a minimum enrolement. We worked out that he work the cost per student X tuition = his income. We what if we paid 4 X Y instead of 6 X Z, and you get the same $$ - so that's how I learned lead. It cost me a few bucks more, but otherwise one of us might have retired before the next lead class. > I know time is an important factor here and right now I am caught up on = > my commissions and these lessons wouldn't interfer. I have just opened = > my studio and am trying to build up my business. All input greatly = > appreciated. What's your business plan ? Commission work, selling supplies to new students, or giving classes? > Thanks in advance: > Sue Reitmann ( oddjob@scc.net ) > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 11:18:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOooP-0000q8a; Tue, 6 May 97 11:18 PDT X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May6.102251.0> References: <<1997May4.171528.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On the plastic came front...... Do they happen to mention if this is fade resistent in the presence of UV? Most plastic is NOT. If it isn't, then it probably isn't any good for suncatchers. Next thing you know they will develop "art plexiglass" Bob Jones rejones@capaccess.org ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 11:40:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOp9S-0001QCa; Tue, 6 May 97 11:39 PDT X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Where is everybody??? Plastic Came----- Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:46:55 +0000 Message-ID: <199705061839.OAA27916@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Next thing you know they will develop "art plexiglass" They've been there, Bob ... and they've done that. Albert Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 15:00:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOsHU-0000tca; Tue, 6 May 97 15:00 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: cost for lessons Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May6.1407.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In South Jersey area I've paid about 5.00 to 8.00 for classes and a minimum of six. Also, I've also taken classes at a minimal charge and was charged for glass, flux, solder, and use of the teachers grinder. Had to have my own glass cutter and breakers tho. Couldn't use the teachers. She had an inferior (old) soldering iron that I used also but disliked and bought my own. Hope I was able to help you a bit. Bubstah ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 15:23:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOsdd-0001KDa; Tue, 6 May 97 15:23 PDT X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Pattern shears Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:09:26 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May6.22926.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 05:33 PM 5/5/97 +0000, you wrote: >Why do I want W. German shears? Because they cut a narrower kerf; >consequently, the glass pieces are a hair larger resulting in a tighter fit >when building the window. > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >---- Dani --- Just a quick note ...... I like shears that cut thinner kerf as well and I have found that the MIKA Combination Two-In-One shears do exactly that. And, for the money ... about $20 retail, they're pretty good quality. Check them out ..... Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 16:01:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOtDt-0001KWa; Tue, 6 May 97 16:00 PDT X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: cost for lessons Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199705062300.TAA24549@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Bubstah wrote, >In South Jersey area I've paid about 5.00 to 8.00 for classes and a minimum >of six. Also, I've also taken classes at a minimal charge and was charged >for glass, flux, solder, and use of the teachers grinder. Had to have my own >glass cutter and breakers tho. Couldn't use the teachers. She had an >inferior (old) soldering iron that I used also but disliked and bought my >own.>> We are also in South Jersey and have taught for about 20 some years.... Depending on the type of class we taught....for a beginner lead course we usually charged 175.00 materials not included. You'd better have your own cutter and all the necessities.....cause you just don't learn glass in the classroom. It was a must for most of our sutdents to do work at home. Our students did have access to three grinders. But we also let them use stones if the wanted to (hehehe). The majority of our beginner students left the class with a few significant pieces. We did not teach suncatchers. We have also done advanced classes $225.00 for 8 weeks. Hour runs alittle longer. Most advanced students had major projects in mind when they came. We have taught designing courses, business courses and painting and fusing courses. Depending on the length of time the class runs, we charged accordingly. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 16:02:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOtEw-0001FEa; Tue, 6 May 97 16:01 PDT X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: bungi: host not found) Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 18:58:40 EDT Message-ID: <1997May6.225840.0> References: <<199705062236.SAA22403@m3.boston.juno.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 May 1997 18:36:34 -0400 Mail Delivery Subsystem writes: >This is a MIME-encapsulated message > >--SAA22403.862958194/m3.boston.juno.com > >The original message was received at Tue, 6 May 1997 18:34:28 -0400 >from eldondo1@juno.com > > ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- >glass@bungi (unrecoverable error) >com@juno.com (unrecoverable error) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >552 com@juno.com... Mail quota exceeded >550 glass@bungi... Host unknown (Name server: bungi: host not found) > > ----- Original message follows ----- > >--SAA22403.862958194/m3.boston.juno.com >Content-Type: message/rfc822 > >Received: (from eldondo1@juno.com) by m3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) > id SpF09208; Tue, 06 May 1997 18:34:28 EDT >To: glass@bungi, com@juno.com >Subject: new mosaic pattern book >Message-ID: <19970506.162124.5143.0.eldondo1@juno.com> >X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 >X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 26 >From: eldondo1@juno.com >Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 18:34:28 EDT > >i am really excited about the new book that will be out the end of >June.The title is Mosaics Made Easy by Nancy Willimon. > > >It >will include 10 patterns=general instructions and guidelines-Also each >pattern has individual instructions and hints for building that >particular pattern. INcludes Oriental Pine >Tree(like a silk screen) 24 by 30 .. > > Tropical Fish (with jewels) 18 by >30... > > > Art Deco Water Wave 16 by 44... > > >Peacock >1/2 round 30 " base... > > Floral 16 by >24... > > Giraffes (Mom and Baby) >24 >by 36... > > Southwest Geometric (table Top) 18 by 24... > > >Sun/Moon&Stars (in mirror) 30 by 30... > > Window in a Window >(With Pots) 16 by 24,,, > > San Francisco Row Homes ( 15 by 20) > > See your >retail >dealer or call (314) 356 7740 St Louis Stained Glass Studio ... >You >may e-mail me for other info at eldondo 1 @juno.com Don DeVoto > > so all the Bunginians won't have to delete the extra >mail!!!!!! > >--SAA22403.862958194/m3.boston.juno.com-- > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 16:32:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOtiY-0001UWa; Tue, 6 May 97 16:32 PDT X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: bungi server not found Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 19:28:56 EDT Message-ID: <1997May6.232856.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis: Help i cannot seem to send mail to the Bunginians (eldondo1@juno.com) Don DeVoto Thanks....... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 17:17:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOuPm-0001MPa; Tue, 6 May 97 17:17 PDT X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: bungi server not found Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:24:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199705070016.UAA18658@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Albert Lewis: Help i cannot seem to send mail to the Bunginians > (eldondo1@juno.com) Don DeVoto Thanks....... To send to the list, email to: glass@bungi.com, Don, which is, I guess, what you've been doing. It just seems kind of busy out there right now. By the way, I'm just another bungi participant like you ... I know no more and no less than you do and must often keep trying myself. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 20:15:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOxCQ-0000gya; Tue, 6 May 97 20:15 PDT X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mosaic Book Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 23:13:29 EDT Message-ID: <1997May7.31329.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mosaics Made Easy-By Nancy Willimon 10 patterns=general instructions and guidelines-also each pattern has individual instructions and hints for building that particular pattern, It includes Oriental Pine tree (like a silk screen)24 by 32'",Tropical Fish (with jewels) 18 by 30".Art Deco Water Wave 16 by 24",Peacock !/2 round 30" base, Floral 16 by 24", Giraffes(Mom and Baby) 24 by 36",Southwest Geometric (Table Top),18 by 24",Sun/Moon and Stars (in mirror) 30 by 30 ",Window in a window (with pots)16 by 24),San Francisco Row Homes 15 by 40" ..... Available end of June ,see your local retailer. If you want to keep other Bunginians happy and have a need for more info ,you can e-mail me at " eldondo1@juno.com" or call (314) 256 7740 St. Louis Stained Glass Studio.. Don DeVoto ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 20:19:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOxGB-0001Sqa; Tue, 6 May 97 20:19 PDT X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mosaic Book Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 23:14:42 EDT Message-ID: <1997May7.31442.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mosaics Made Easy-By Nancy Willimon 10 patterns=general instructions and guidelines-also each pattern has individual instructions and hints for building that particular pattern, It includes Oriental Pine tree (like a silk screen)24 by 32'",Tropical Fish (with jewels) 18 by 30".Art Deco Water Wave 16 by 24",Peacock !/2 round 30" base, Floral 16 by 24", Giraffes(Mom and Baby) 24 by 36",Southwest Geometric (Table Top),18 by 24",Sun/Moon and Stars (in mirror) 30 by 30 ",Window in a window (with pots)16 by 24),San Francisco Row Homes 15 by 40" ..... Available end of June ,see your local retailer. If you want to keep other Bunginians happy and have a need for more info ,you can e-mail me at " eldondo1@juno.com" or call (314) 256 7740 St. Louis Stained Glass Studio.. Don DeVoto ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 21:12:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOy4f-0000h1a; Tue, 6 May 97 21:11 PDT X-Path: gr.cns.net!pristine From: mcFrenzy To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: message/news Subject: [Fwd: Stained glass] Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 00:03:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May6.20324.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Path: news.cns.net!news.triton.net!news1.chicago.agis.net!agis!news4.agis.net!news5.agis.net!agis!newsgod.dearborn.agis.net!news1.dearborn.agis.net!agis!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!europa.clark.net!news-peer.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news From: "Keith Taft" Newsgroups: rec.crafts.glass Subject: Stained glass Date: 6 May 1997 04:48:55 GMT Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <01bc44a8$f0c702e0$3190d6ce@jacuz.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca21-17.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Mon May 05 9:48:55 PM PDT 1997 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1157 Xref: news.cns.net rec.crafts.glass:3769 Check out my web page for Stained glass. We make original stained glass crafts. http://www.netcom.com/jacuz/crafts.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 6 21:23:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wOyFE-0000ima; Tue, 6 May 97 21:22 PDT X-Path: gr.cns.net!pristine From: mcFrenzy To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: [Fwd: Stained glass] Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 00:14:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May6.201411.0> References: <<1997May6.20324.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > http://www.netcom.com/jacuz/crafts.html Sorry, that URL doesn't work. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 7 05:50:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wP6Ax-0001n3a; Wed, 7 May 97 05:50 PDT X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Subject: Green patina help Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:50:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May7.4506.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all Bungians. Maybe someone here can help me with a problem. I recently purchased some Jax Green Patina, and am not at all satisfied with the results. I am trying it out on a copper foil piece, which has plain (i.e. non-patinaed) solder lines. When I try using it like other patina chemicals (i.e. put chemical on with a sponge, then wash off), it just turns the solder line junky. When I try to let the Jax patina air dry on the solder prior to washing, it still looks yucky. No green. I then tried a doulbe patina on the other side of the piece, whereby I first did a copper patina on the solder line, then the Jax green. Now I'm getting some very, very spotty yucky green or blueish-green, but in no way is this even remotely consistent. I mean, I really hate what this patina has done (or not done). Anyone have any experience using Jax Green Patina successfully? Anyone know what I'm doing wrong, and can offer suggestions for helping me accomplish a nice verdigris finish? Thanks for all...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 7 07:23:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wP7cR-00018ra; Wed, 7 May 97 07:22 PDT X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Green patina help Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 10:20:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May7.62035.0> References: <<1997May7.4506.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote: > > Hi all Bungians. Maybe someone here can help me with a problem. I > recently purchased some Jax Green Patina, and am not at all satisfied with > the results. I am trying it out on a copper foil piece, which has plain > (i.e. non-patinaed) solder lines. When I try using it like other patina > chemicals (i.e. put chemical on with a sponge, then wash off), it just > turns the solder line junky. When I try to let the Jax patina air dry on > the solder prior to washing, it still looks yucky. No green. I then tried > a doulbe patina on the other side of the piece, whereby I first did a > copper patina on the solder line, then the Jax green. Now I'm getting some > very, very spotty yucky green or blueish-green, but in no way is this even > remotely consistent. I mean, I really hate what this patina has done (or > not done). > > Anyone have any experience using Jax Green Patina successfully? Anyone > know what I'm doing wrong, and can offer suggestions for helping me > accomplish a nice verdigris finish? > > Thanks for all...Christie > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well i have the stuff, same thing happened. when io asked about it, they said it only works on copper, not copper patinaed, not even the stuff they sell. you can make a green finish on real copper, or if you plated the solder copper. Jax copper works real well, but it's hard to apply, but the end result is very nice. it stays copper colored for a real long time. i found this out when doing the japanese garden, i must have applied that stuff 6 times before giving up, i got a white'ish finsh in spots, which i kept, giving it a antique look of it's own. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 7 07:43:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wP7vk-0001vQa; Wed, 7 May 97 07:42 PDT X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Subscriptions, etc. Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:42:51 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, Just a short note to let you all know I am not going to be here till Monday morning. Any subscription changes will have to wait till then. I am off to Canada for a family funeral. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 7 08:30:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wP8fS-0000eua; Wed, 7 May 97 08:30 PDT X-Path: ngai.com!pjnjril From: Paula Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Green patina help Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:02:44 -0500 Message-ID: <199705071531.KAA23726@email6.starnetinc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 08:50 AM 5/7/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all Bungians. Maybe someone here can help me with a problem. I >recently purchased some Jax Green Patina, and am not at all satisfied with >the results. I was under the impression that both the green and the brown *didn't* work on solder... only onccopper or brass. Haven't used it or heard anything else, sorry. Paula pjnjril@ngai.com ____________________ The Glass Dog Studio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 7 08:58:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wP960-0001hFa; Wed, 7 May 97 08:57 PDT X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: About that Frank Lloyd Wright Conference Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 12:04:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199705071557.LAA15017@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Ah, finally got the URL for the conference: http://www.swcp.com/FLW/buffaloconf.html All the info's there. Albert Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 7 09:34:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wP9fC-00023da; Wed, 7 May 97 09:33 PDT X-Path: snowcrest.net!beermug From: Paul Deutsch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: cost for lessons Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199705071633.JAA04251@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sue-our local shop charges a one-time $45 fee, for initial instruction in cutting, fitting, and grinding for foil project, then $15 per month studio fee plus $1 an hour shop use fee. No materials are included, but studio tools are used for first project, except grinder head, student buys their own. All the tools the students use are kept just for students. The studio is basicallly a teaching studio and is open for students all the time. ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 7 09:59:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wPA3I-00026ba; Wed, 7 May 97 09:58 PDT X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: charlie@az.stratus.com (Charles Spitzer) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: weights for lamps Date: Wed, 7 May 97 9:58:42 MST Message-ID: References: <<1997May5.5740.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk 'leestat7' > > Hi Dorothy, > > On the weighing of the lamp base-Lead fishing weights, and some Fitness > Supply shops sell lead by the pound. Less expensive than solder for this > purpose. i needed some lead for my boat and found plenty at a local salvage yard. it was about $.30/lb. you can probably find these in your local yellow pages. -- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 7 10:03:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0wPA6y-0001vCa; Wed, 7 May 97 10:02 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: packing Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:57:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970507110420.27072092@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Bungians; Someone recently asked about packing. (I am on another computor). there was a very good article on this in the Summer '95 Stained Glass Quarterly of the SGAA. Meg ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 05:30:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 05:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Subject: Re: Green patina help Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 08:02:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.421.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks for the info, Mike. I thought I was doing something wrong. Too bad I bought two bottles of the stuff. ...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 06:02:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 06:01:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Green patina help Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 08:57:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.45747.0> References: <<1997May8.421.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Christie. I just got some Jax Chemicals,also, this is what I plan to do to experiment: Construct a small copper foil panel for a 'test' subject. About 8" x 8"to 10" small enough to be placed in the bottom of a flat Tupperware(or similar) plastic container. Don't have to be fancy, just 6-8 solder lines, great use of 'scrap' glass too. Clean panel well, soak in water/baking soda sol. to neutralize any flux residue, rinse well and finish rinsing in distilled water. Dry , and then lay flat, use your blow dryer to finish drying each side. Place test panel in bottom of plastic container. While still hot from the blow dryer, pour a little Jax Copper Plating solution over panel, enough to cover whole panel with solution. Take a dry bristle brush and brush both sides. (remember to wear rubber gloves) and ventilate. (Read ingred-this is not stuff you want to breath) Remove test panel after it has turned the color you want(it is now copper plated), rinse. Dry and finish with blow dryer. Pour remainder of sol. in separate clean plastic or glass bottle (don't contaminate new sol.) Label(dangerous). Now clean and dry plastic flat pan(plastic)or use a new one,preferably, put dry (and still hot from blow dryer) panel back in, and pour over test panel the Green Patina. Rub in with a dry bristle brush. The inst. say the Green Patina works only on copper, brass, and bronze. Also it contains Copper Sulfate and Ammonium Chloride. Both are nasty stuff-don't breath, get on skin, etc. Wear rubber gloves, and rubber apron, respirator would be a good idea too. Put a heavy cream on your face and any exposed skin areas, and wear splash goggles. Jax Copper plating Solutions says it works on Iron, Steel, Brass, and solders. It has Copper Sulfate and Sulfuric Acid in it (even more nasty). I also got the Silver Plating solution, and the gold (imitation) plating sol. The Silver Plating sol. works on copper, brass, bronze and silver. It also has Thiosulfate. The Gold finish solution works on brass, silver, and aluminum. It contains Sodium Hydroxide and Potassium Permanganate. I suggest you visit Mononna's pages (links from bungi.com Igga pages)at : http://www.caseweb.com/acts/ and get some complete lessons on chemical safety handling procedures before you try any of this. My background is silver and goldsmithing, and casting gold, silver, and some alloys, so have some limited knowledge in handling dangerous chemicals. Caution, caution, caution. >I recently purchased some Jax Green Patina, and am not at all satisfied with > the results. I am trying it out on a copper foil piece, which has plain > (i.e. non-patinaed) solder lines. > > Anyone have any experience using Jax Green Patina successfully? Anyone > know what I'm doing wrong, and can offer suggestions for helping me > accomplish a nice verdigris finish? I always do a test panel (small) when testing new solutions, and often construct a 'prototype' of a new 3D design I expect to make several of, to work out the engineering kinks. It will save a lot of time and frustration later. Hope this helps you Christie, and any others out there that are trying new chemicals. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 07:24:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 07:23:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ngai.com!pjnjril From: Paula Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Sandblasting/etching Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 08:55:46 -0500 Message-ID: <199705081425.JAA23505@email6.starnetinc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I just found a shop near where I work that offers Sandblasting/Etching classes, so I signed up. I got a taste of acid etching in a college course that turned me against etching cremes (spotty coverage), but the potential has pushed me towards blast etching ;) The class is 5 weeks for $75, and in asking, the shop has rental hours on the blaster of $10 for 30 minutes. Is this a fairly competative rate; I think I've heard this amount mentioned before... Paula pjnjril@ngai.com ________________ The Glass Dog Studio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 08:13:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 08:12:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Green patina help Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 11:09:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.7945.0> References: <<1997May8.421.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote: > > Thanks for the info, Mike. I thought I was doing something wrong. Too bad > I bought two bottles of the stuff. > ...Christie > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah i know..i applied it, waited, did it again, let it turn hazy, i must have done it 6 times vefore giving up. it's decieving reall, the copper says it'll plate some how with out electricity. and the green says it will stick to copper plate, but i guess in this case it just does'nt work. oh well. i suppose if you wanted to you can make a bunch of weathered things. or you can by that expensive copper paint, the one they sell in kit forms. you can paint over stuff, it seems to have a copper suspension in it. they have alot of patina colors that go with it, i'm tempted to by some and try out on my projects, but it's kind of pricey. the bottles are about the same size as, say, novacan, but with the price of Jax. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 08:16:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Green patina help Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 11:12:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.71254.0> References: <<1997May8.45747.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk leestat7 wrote: > > Hi Christie. > > I just got some Jax Chemicals,also, this is what I plan to do to > experiment: > Construct a small copper foil panel for a 'test' subject. About 8" x > 8"to 10" small enough to be placed in the bottom of a flat Tupperware(or > similar) plastic container. Don't have to be fancy, just 6-8 solder > lines, great use of 'scrap' glass too. > > Clean panel well, soak in water/baking soda sol. to neutralize any flux > residue, rinse well and finish rinsing in distilled water. Dry , and > then lay flat, use your blow dryer to finish drying each side. Place > test > panel in bottom of plastic container. While still hot from the blow > dryer, pour a little Jax Copper Plating solution over panel, enough to > cover whole panel with solution. Take a dry bristle brush and brush > both sides. (remember to wear rubber gloves) and ventilate. (Read > ingred-this is not stuff you want to breath) > > Remove test panel after it > has turned the color you want(it is now copper plated), rinse. Dry and > finish > with blow dryer. Pour remainder of sol. in separate clean plastic or > glass bottle (don't contaminate new sol.) Label(dangerous). Now clean > and > dry plastic flat pan(plastic)or use a new one,preferably, put dry (and > still hot from blow dryer) panel back in, and pour over test panel the > Green Patina. Rub in with a dry bristle brush. The inst. say the Green > Patina works only on copper, brass, and bronze. Also it contains Copper > Sulfate and Ammonium Chloride. Both are nasty stuff-don't breath, get > on skin, etc. Wear rubber gloves, and rubber apron, respirator would be > a good idea too. Put a heavy cream on your face and any exposed skin > areas, and wear splash goggles. > > Jax Copper plating Solutions says it > works on Iron, Steel, Brass, and solders. It has Copper Sulfate and > Sulfuric Acid in it (even more nasty). I also got the Silver Plating > solution, and the gold (imitation) plating sol. The Silver Plating sol. > works on copper, brass, bronze and silver. It also has Thiosulfate. The > Gold finish solution works on brass, silver, and aluminum. It contains > Sodium Hydroxide and Potassium Permanganate. I suggest you visit > Mononna's pages (links from bungi.com Igga pages)at : > > http://www.caseweb.com/acts/ > > and get some complete lessons on chemical safety handling procedures > before you try any of this. My background is silver and goldsmithing, > and casting gold, silver, and some alloys, so have some limited > knowledge in handling dangerous chemicals. Caution, caution, caution. > > >I recently purchased some Jax Green Patina, and am not at all satisfied with > > the results. I am trying it out on a copper foil piece, which has plain > > (i.e. non-patinaed) solder lines. > > > > Anyone have any experience using Jax Green Patina successfully? Anyone > > know what I'm doing wrong, and can offer suggestions for helping me > > accomplish a nice verdigris finish? > > I always do a test panel (small) when testing new solutions, and often > construct a 'prototype' of a new 3D design I expect to make several of, > to work out the engineering kinks. > > It will save a lot of time and frustration later. > > Hope this helps you Christie, and any others out there that are trying > new chemicals. > > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i found that if you clean the solder with denatured alcohol it leaves the surface much cleaner, then soap. the copper came out real shiny just by wiping the surface down first with the alchohol. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 08:20:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 08:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: mail failed, returning to sender Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 11:16:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.71616.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Charles Spitzer wrote: > > > > 'leestat7' > > > > > > Hi Dorothy, > > > > > > On the weighing of the lamp base-Lead fishing weights, and some Fitness > > > Supply shops sell lead by the pound. Less expensive than solder for this > > > purpose. > > > > i needed some lead for my boat and found plenty at a local salvage yard. it > > was about $.30/lb. you can probably find these in your local yellow pages. > > > > -- > > Charles Spitzer > > charlie@az.stratus.com > > Customer Assistance Center > > Stratus Computer, Inc. > > Phoenix, AZ > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > or maybe a stained glass shop, that deals with restorations. i know a > friend of mine that has a bucket full of it due to all the lead he > replace. i'm not sure why he has it, i'm assuming it has to do to the > toxic side and recycling. you can try one of those shops for some, > though it's is'nt all that pure; oxidation, and glazing cement. > > ---Mike Savad > i wrote the above in the response of the above, though i don't know if it got into the list, so ignore it if you've read this. and if you hav'nt ignore the first quote lines... -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 08:20:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 08:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: mail failed, returning to sender Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 11:16:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.71655.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk MAILER-DAEMON@daver.bungi.com wrote: > > |------------------------- Message log follows: -------------------------| > no valid recipients were found for this message > |------------------------- Failed addresses follow: ---------------------| > ... unknown user > |------------------------- Message text follows: ------------------------| > Received: from othello(really [207.99.2.2]) by daver.bungi.com > via sendmail with smtp > id > for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 14:20:58 -0700 (PDT) > (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #6 built 1997-May-7) > Received: from [207.99.52.46] by othello (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id na570141 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:20:52 -0400 > Message-ID: <3370F1AC.38C7@nac.net> > Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 17:18:36 -0400 > From: "M. Savad" > Reply-To: morn@nac.net > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Green patina help > References: <199705071531.KAA23726@email6.starnetinc.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Paula Nelson wrote: > > > > At 08:50 AM 5/7/97 -0400, you wrote: > > >Hi all Bungians. Maybe someone here can help me with a problem. I > > >recently purchased some Jax Green Patina, and am not at all satisfied with > > >the results. > > > > I was under the impression that both the green and the brown *didn't* work > > on solder... only onccopper or brass. Haven't used it or heard anything > > else, sorry. > > > > Paula > > pjnjril@ngai.com > > ____________________ > > The Glass Dog Studio > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > brown patina does work on the copper patina they make, however it > does'nt stick very well. like it'll turn sort of brown, more like a > copper brown, and if you put tape on it, say to place a lid, the patina > may flake off in spots. > > ---Mike Savad i wrote the above in the response of the above, though i don't know if it got into the list, so ignore it if you've read this. and if you hav'nt ignore the first quote lines... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 08:37:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 05:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Subject: Re: Green patina help Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 08:02:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.421.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks for the info, Mike. I thought I was doing something wrong. Too bad I bought two bottles of the stuff. ...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 08:43:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 06:01:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Green patina help Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 08:57:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.45747.0> References: <<1997May8.421.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Christie. I just got some Jax Chemicals,also, this is what I plan to do to experiment: Construct a small copper foil panel for a 'test' subject. About 8" x 8"to 10" small enough to be placed in the bottom of a flat Tupperware(or similar) plastic container. Don't have to be fancy, just 6-8 solder lines, great use of 'scrap' glass too. Clean panel well, soak in water/baking soda sol. to neutralize any flux residue, rinse well and finish rinsing in distilled water. Dry , and then lay flat, use your blow dryer to finish drying each side. Place test panel in bottom of plastic container. While still hot from the blow dryer, pour a little Jax Copper Plating solution over panel, enough to cover whole panel with solution. Take a dry bristle brush and brush both sides. (remember to wear rubber gloves) and ventilate. (Read ingred-this is not stuff you want to breath) Remove test panel after it has turned the color you want(it is now copper plated), rinse. Dry and finish with blow dryer. Pour remainder of sol. in separate clean plastic or glass bottle (don't contaminate new sol.) Label(dangerous). Now clean and dry plastic flat pan(plastic)or use a new one,preferably, put dry (and still hot from blow dryer) panel back in, and pour over test panel the Green Patina. Rub in with a dry bristle brush. The inst. say the Green Patina works only on copper, brass, and bronze. Also it contains Copper Sulfate and Ammonium Chloride. Both are nasty stuff-don't breath, get on skin, etc. Wear rubber gloves, and rubber apron, respirator would be a good idea too. Put a heavy cream on your face and any exposed skin areas, and wear splash goggles. Jax Copper plating Solutions says it works on Iron, Steel, Brass, and solders. It has Copper Sulfate and Sulfuric Acid in it (even more nasty). I also got the Silver Plating solution, and the gold (imitation) plating sol. The Silver Plating sol. works on copper, brass, bronze and silver. It also has Thiosulfate. The Gold finish solution works on brass, silver, and aluminum. It contains Sodium Hydroxide and Potassium Permanganate. I suggest you visit Mononna's pages (links from bungi.com Igga pages)at : http://www.caseweb.com/acts/ and get some complete lessons on chemical safety handling procedures before you try any of this. My background is silver and goldsmithing, and casting gold, silver, and some alloys, so have some limited knowledge in handling dangerous chemicals. Caution, caution, caution. >I recently purchased some Jax Green Patina, and am not at all satisfied with > the results. I am trying it out on a copper foil piece, which has plain > (i.e. non-patinaed) solder lines. > > Anyone have any experience using Jax Green Patina successfully? Anyone > know what I'm doing wrong, and can offer suggestions for helping me > accomplish a nice verdigris finish? I always do a test panel (small) when testing new solutions, and often construct a 'prototype' of a new 3D design I expect to make several of, to work out the engineering kinks. It will save a lot of time and frustration later. Hope this helps you Christie, and any others out there that are trying new chemicals. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 09:01:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 07:23:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ngai.com!pjnjril From: Paula Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Sandblasting/etching Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 08:55:46 -0500 Message-ID: <199705081425.JAA23505@email6.starnetinc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I just found a shop near where I work that offers Sandblasting/Etching classes, so I signed up. I got a taste of acid etching in a college course that turned me against etching cremes (spotty coverage), but the potential has pushed me towards blast etching ;) The class is 5 weeks for $75, and in asking, the shop has rental hours on the blaster of $10 for 30 minutes. Is this a fairly competative rate; I think I've heard this amount mentioned before... Paula pjnjril@ngai.com ________________ The Glass Dog Studio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 09:10:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 08:12:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Green patina help Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 11:09:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.7945.0> References: <<1997May8.421.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote: > > Thanks for the info, Mike. I thought I was doing something wrong. Too bad > I bought two bottles of the stuff. > ...Christie > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah i know..i applied it, waited, did it again, let it turn hazy, i must have done it 6 times vefore giving up. it's decieving reall, the copper says it'll plate some how with out electricity. and the green says it will stick to copper plate, but i guess in this case it just does'nt work. oh well. i suppose if you wanted to you can make a bunch of weathered things. or you can by that expensive copper paint, the one they sell in kit forms. you can paint over stuff, it seems to have a copper suspension in it. they have alot of patina colors that go with it, i'm tempted to by some and try out on my projects, but it's kind of pricey. the bottles are about the same size as, say, novacan, but with the price of Jax. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 09:22:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Green patina help Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 11:12:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.71254.0> References: <<1997May8.45747.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk leestat7 wrote: > > Hi Christie. > > I just got some Jax Chemicals,also, this is what I plan to do to > experiment: > Construct a small copper foil panel for a 'test' subject. About 8" x > 8"to 10" small enough to be placed in the bottom of a flat Tupperware(or > similar) plastic container. Don't have to be fancy, just 6-8 solder > lines, great use of 'scrap' glass too. > > Clean panel well, soak in water/baking soda sol. to neutralize any flux > residue, rinse well and finish rinsing in distilled water. Dry , and > then lay flat, use your blow dryer to finish drying each side. Place > test > panel in bottom of plastic container. While still hot from the blow > dryer, pour a little Jax Copper Plating solution over panel, enough to > cover whole panel with solution. Take a dry bristle brush and brush > both sides. (remember to wear rubber gloves) and ventilate. (Read > ingred-this is not stuff you want to breath) > > Remove test panel after it > has turned the color you want(it is now copper plated), rinse. Dry and > finish > with blow dryer. Pour remainder of sol. in separate clean plastic or > glass bottle (don't contaminate new sol.) Label(dangerous). Now clean > and > dry plastic flat pan(plastic)or use a new one,preferably, put dry (and > still hot from blow dryer) panel back in, and pour over test panel the > Green Patina. Rub in with a dry bristle brush. The inst. say the Green > Patina works only on copper, brass, and bronze. Also it contains Copper > Sulfate and Ammonium Chloride. Both are nasty stuff-don't breath, get > on skin, etc. Wear rubber gloves, and rubber apron, respirator would be > a good idea too. Put a heavy cream on your face and any exposed skin > areas, and wear splash goggles. > > Jax Copper plating Solutions says it > works on Iron, Steel, Brass, and solders. It has Copper Sulfate and > Sulfuric Acid in it (even more nasty). I also got the Silver Plating > solution, and the gold (imitation) plating sol. The Silver Plating sol. > works on copper, brass, bronze and silver. It also has Thiosulfate. The > Gold finish solution works on brass, silver, and aluminum. It contains > Sodium Hydroxide and Potassium Permanganate. I suggest you visit > Mononna's pages (links from bungi.com Igga pages)at : > > http://www.caseweb.com/acts/ > > and get some complete lessons on chemical safety handling procedures > before you try any of this. My background is silver and goldsmithing, > and casting gold, silver, and some alloys, so have some limited > knowledge in handling dangerous chemicals. Caution, caution, caution. > > >I recently purchased some Jax Green Patina, and am not at all satisfied with > > the results. I am trying it out on a copper foil piece, which has plain > > (i.e. non-patinaed) solder lines. > > > > Anyone have any experience using Jax Green Patina successfully? Anyone > > know what I'm doing wrong, and can offer suggestions for helping me > > accomplish a nice verdigris finish? > > I always do a test panel (small) when testing new solutions, and often > construct a 'prototype' of a new 3D design I expect to make several of, > to work out the engineering kinks. > > It will save a lot of time and frustration later. > > Hope this helps you Christie, and any others out there that are trying > new chemicals. > > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i found that if you clean the solder with denatured alcohol it leaves the surface much cleaner, then soap. the copper came out real shiny just by wiping the surface down first with the alchohol. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 09:24:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 08:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: mail failed, returning to sender Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 11:16:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.71616.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Charles Spitzer wrote: > > > > 'leestat7' > > > > > > Hi Dorothy, > > > > > > On the weighing of the lamp base-Lead fishing weights, and some Fitness > > > Supply shops sell lead by the pound. Less expensive than solder for this > > > purpose. > > > > i needed some lead for my boat and found plenty at a local salvage yard. it > > was about $.30/lb. you can probably find these in your local yellow pages. > > > > -- > > Charles Spitzer > > charlie@az.stratus.com > > Customer Assistance Center > > Stratus Computer, Inc. > > Phoenix, AZ > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > or maybe a stained glass shop, that deals with restorations. i know a > friend of mine that has a bucket full of it due to all the lead he > replace. i'm not sure why he has it, i'm assuming it has to do to the > toxic side and recycling. you can try one of those shops for some, > though it's is'nt all that pure; oxidation, and glazing cement. > > ---Mike Savad > i wrote the above in the response of the above, though i don't know if it got into the list, so ignore it if you've read this. and if you hav'nt ignore the first quote lines... -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 09:30:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 08:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: mail failed, returning to sender Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 11:16:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.71655.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk MAILER-DAEMON@daver.bungi.com wrote: > > |------------------------- Message log follows: -------------------------| > no valid recipients were found for this message > |------------------------- Failed addresses follow: ---------------------| > ... unknown user > |------------------------- Message text follows: ------------------------| > Received: from othello(really [207.99.2.2]) by daver.bungi.com > via sendmail with smtp > id > for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 14:20:58 -0700 (PDT) > (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #6 built 1997-May-7) > Received: from [207.99.52.46] by othello (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id na570141 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:20:52 -0400 > Message-ID: <3370F1AC.38C7@nac.net> > Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 17:18:36 -0400 > From: "M. Savad" > Reply-To: morn@nac.net > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Green patina help > References: <199705071531.KAA23726@email6.starnetinc.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Paula Nelson wrote: > > > > At 08:50 AM 5/7/97 -0400, you wrote: > > >Hi all Bungians. Maybe someone here can help me with a problem. I > > >recently purchased some Jax Green Patina, and am not at all satisfied with > > >the results. > > > > I was under the impression that both the green and the brown *didn't* work > > on solder... only onccopper or brass. Haven't used it or heard anything > > else, sorry. > > > > Paula > > pjnjril@ngai.com > > ____________________ > > The Glass Dog Studio > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > brown patina does work on the copper patina they make, however it > does'nt stick very well. like it'll turn sort of brown, more like a > copper brown, and if you put tape on it, say to place a lid, the patina > may flake off in spots. > > ---Mike Savad i wrote the above in the response of the above, though i don't know if it got into the list, so ignore it if you've read this. and if you hav'nt ignore the first quote lines... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 13:47:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 13:46:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Mail Failures Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:48:54 -0100 Message-ID: <1997May8.154854.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Is anyone else experiencing mail failures.. Tried to send to yesterday = 5/7 but was returned.. Well, anyways this is what I asked. On 5/16 we are going to Rodger's Flea Market.. Are there any bungians = who have a retail store or who would recommend a Stained Glass store in = the area.. This is located close to East Liverpool, Ohio, on Route 7.. = Would enjoy seeing a new store outside of my Butler, PA location.. Also, do you know if they make 5/32 copper foil backed in silver and/or = black... I have the copper, but would still like to stay with the others = for final finishing purposes.. Did not want to take the time to trim = 3/16.. Doing very small pieces and the glass is slightly thinner than = the usual. Thanks, Gloria ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 14:08:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 14:07:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'LJ Maas'" , "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Swan pattern Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:55:37 -0100 Message-ID: <1997May8.155537.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Also there is a nice swan pattern from Delphi.. It is a swan with a lily pad with flower.. They have a colored picture in their catalog. Gloria ---------- From: LJ Maas[SMTP:artist@busprod.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 1997 12:29 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Swan pattern >Hi, I'm usually just a lurker here, but anyone advise me where I can >find a nice pattern of a swan? Thanks, Meigan Meigan...There's a nice swan among the reeds in a pattern book called: "200 Design Ideas For Stained Glass," by Mark & Susan Walton. CKE Publications. I've never been a "swan lover," but this pattern has a certain serenity to it. Hope this helps...LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 14:27:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 14:27:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mail Failures Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 17:22:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May8.132220.0> References: <<1997May8.154854.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk George & Gloria wrote: > > Is anyone else experiencing mail failures.. Tried to send to yesterday = > 5/7 but was returned.. Well, anyways this is what I asked. > On 5/16 we are going to Rodger's Flea Market.. Are there any bungians = > who have a retail store or who would recommend a Stained Glass store in = > the area.. This is located close to East Liverpool, Ohio, on Route 7.. = > Would enjoy seeing a new store outside of my Butler, PA location.. > > Also, do you know if they make 5/32 copper foil backed in silver and/or = > black... I have the copper, but would still like to stay with the others = > for final finishing purposes.. Did not want to take the time to trim = > 3/16.. Doing very small pieces and the glass is slightly thinner than = > the usual. > Thanks, > Gloria > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah i'm having a bunch of mail problems too... and for the foil, i think they make a size in every color.. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 15:48:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 15:47:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison From: ItsAlison@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Mail Failures Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:47:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May8.144711.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have only seen both black-backed and silver-backed copper foil in the 3/32 width. Have you checked with Warner-Crivellaro or Delphi...who both mail order supplies? They have web sites on the internet (not sure of the addresses) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 17:16:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 17:14:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: An interesting request Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 00:21:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199705090014.BAA26634@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all Bunginians, In my e-mail mailbag recently, I received below request. It intrigued me. I responded a couple of time, pointing out that I was actually located in UK and was I the right person to help. The replies I received were very friendly and apologetic. The whole tone of the correspondence made me feel confident in turning to the wonderful resources of my friends at Bungi: Any suggestions in response to the below please, other than sources I can offer in Europe.....?????? Here goes: Hello, I am an editor with the Salvation Army, and I am searching for a picture of stained glass that I can use for a cover of the magazine for which I work. I am looking for a stained glass art that shows beautiful refractions of light, and suggesting a sense of cubism as that light streams forth. We want to superimpose on this glass a side view of a simple creche, indicating that the "King to a manger borne," that is, Christ was born in humble beginnings but has a great destiny. Do you have anything that might apply. I realize this is a strange request, but if you do not have anything, can you recommend a source? thanks Jeff McDonald Managing Editor Salvation Army National Publications USA END OF QUOTE On/Off Group replies and suggestions very welcome. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 17:16:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 17:15:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: UPDATE - HEALTH & SAFETY Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 00:21:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199705090014.BAA26668@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Bunginians. I think it must have been November 1996 when I promised you an up-date in "early" 1997 about my campaign for justice and compensation for my friend Susan - who had to take early retirement on grounds of ill health as Head of Arts in an English Secondary School. Some of you have actually met her in person. She has been instrumental in helping me to over-come my "fear" of drawing. The School where she worked was very haphazard in making HER working onditions safe and healthy. In the last 3 yers of her working career, she was so ill that I had to physically carry her up and down to her bedroom, prepare liquidized food for her twice every day, sit with her all night because she couldn't breathe and was frightened. Life was pure Hell for her, it was also hell for me. Her salvation was her living in this village a few doors away from me and her chocolate-brown enormous poodle puppy "Rupert" who forced her out into the country-side walking. Elisabeth, being Elisabeth, got the "bit" between her teeth and decided that "someone" was responsible for all of this. Through the immense warmth, well-wishes, suggestions, help and NOT least the guidance of Monona, Bunginians rose to the occasions and poured in with help, advice and guidance about Health & Safety. I have accummulated MSDS-Sheets amounting to 3 inches in thickness of all the obnoxious substances that could/would/did make Susan so ill that she could no longer carry on her work - to which she made great contributions and to which she had dedicated her life. Since I last posted information into the Group about the developments, Susan has been appearing in front of one Government Medical Examination Board after another, ALL producing voluminous written reports about their findings. The conclusion IS, that her working environment has positively and definitely CAUSED her illness. The National Union of Teachers in UK has taken on her cause and is paying the bill. THEY have decided that her cause is a fair, just and real one. To persuade THEM is quite a monumental achievement. So what is the situation TODAY??? It is, that in the next few days that Susann's old School will be served a summons to appear before Court to answer a very carefully researched and documented case of Health & Safety negligence. In the last few days I have been working on legal papers that have been very searching, attempting to "cross all the 'tees' and dotting all the 'is'. The School is now officially sued for compensation. Susan will probably have to appear for even MORE medical examinations, demanded by the School (though from now on, she is well rehearsed....). My aim is to get a financial compensation for her amounting to 15 years of residual salary + annual increments, + compensation for possible loss of promotion + damage to physical health etc. On the whole, in UK, people just accept, lie down and die. WHO can argue with the establishment?? I DO and I WILL. It's quite comforting to take onboard the fact that the UK National Union of Teachers agree with me and are willing to put their hands in their pocket to prove it. I would not have got THIS far, had it not been for the immense support, guidance, advice and encouragement from you LOT!! Thank you! I have filled in a little bit for the benefit of "new" Bunginians. To The Old Brigade - again Thank You!!! A Writ is being served in these next few days on the School. What is a difference between a solicitor and a barrister..... and so on. I will answer these questions too to each of you. I am a foreigner here too. The daggers are now drawn. I do not intend for Susan to lose. I will let you All know, when I have a next development. So far, so good. Thank you - once more. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 20:14:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 20:12:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!dariece From: dariece@juno.com (Dariece G. McClure) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Dariece: Fireplace Screen Dollar Value Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 23:09:40 EDT Message-ID: <1997May9.3940.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi there, I am new to this sight and fairly new to stained glass. I am getting ready to make a fireplace screen for someone. I was wondering if anyone could give me a minimum amount($) I should ask. I know that there are a lot of variables involved. The screen will be a single screen, no side panels. They are still trying to decide on a design, but I don't foresee anything too complicated from what they have told me so far. Thanks for your help. Dariece ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 8 23:01:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 May 1997 23:00:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: pouring concrete: Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 02:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May8.22038.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-05-04 15:54:33 EDT, you write: << When a beam which is supported at both ends is loaded midway between the supports, the beam bends down in the middle >> I was thinking about a glass concrete project where I would make a celtic cross. I was intending to use reinforcing bars for strength particularly in the arms. I think one problem with rebar is rust and water causing the concrete to degrade. suggestion? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 01:59:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 01:56:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: UPDATE - HEALTH & SAFETY Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 05:04:00 +0000 Message-ID: <199705090856.EAA28461@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > The daggers are now drawn. Bully for you, Elisabeth, and cheers! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 05:24:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 05:24:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "Dariece G. McClure" , Bungi Subject: Dariece: Fireplace Screen Dollar Value Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:23:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May9.4236.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At a wholesale show I attended, some stained glass fireplace screens being offered for sale were going for $500 - $2500. That's wholesale prices. So double the figure for retail price. Now, mind you, these were absolutely beautiful screens made with very expensive glass, bevel clusters, and high workmanship, with everything beautifully done. In fact, they won best of show in the professional crafts competition, even beating out jewelry and silks and ceramics. But this can give you an idea of what high-end fireplace screens are going for. I've also seen a couple for sale in high-end retail gift stores in tourist places, where a single screen was going for $1050 retail. Again, it was very, very nice design with beautiful glass. ...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 05:24:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 05:24:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: leestat7 , "[unknown]" Subject: Re: Green patina help Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:23:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May9.4233.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by leestat7 >Jax Copper Plating solution< Lee; Thanks for the detailed info. I didn't know about using the Jax Copper Plating solution. I shall purchase some and try out your directions for a test. I do have a respirator and rubber gloves and will use them when doing this experiment. ...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 05:53:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 05:53:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: pouring concrete: Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 08:57:40 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970509085740.006a3764@pop.bridge.net> References: <<1997May8.22038.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk If rebar is put into concrete before there is rust on it, it's very unlikely to rust as long as water and air can't get to it. So, a waterproofing sealer should be applied to the finished project. For added insurance, rebar can be coated with an epoxy. M.-J. Previous post: ><< When a beam which is supported at >both ends is loaded midway between the supports, >the beam bends down in the > middle >> > >I was thinking about a glass concrete project where >I would make a celtic cross. I was intending to >use reinforcing bars for strength particularly in the >arms. I think one problem with rebar is rust and >water causing the concrete to degrade. > >suggestion? > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 06:19:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 06:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC5C5A.1AF66A60" Subject: RE: pouring concrete: Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:19:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May9.51930.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5C5A.1AF66A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Uh, I'm not a civil engineer but I have some experience with reinforced = concrete blocks for docking ships. It's my understanding that the rust = or oxidation on the rebar actually helps to meld the concrete to the = rebar and strengthens it. You do NOT want to put epoxy coating on the = rebar. Ever see them put rebar in roadway beds? That stuff is orange = with a coat of oxidation, on purpose. If you rebar is imbedded in the = concrete the rust that may occur internally will never show unless you = develope hairline cracks, in which case you have a problem anyway, = either with overloading or with the method of mixing and curing the = cement. Linda Campbell=20 If rebar is put into concrete before there is rust on it, it's very unlikely to rust as long as water and air can't get to it. So, a waterproofing sealer should be applied to the finished project. For = added insurance, rebar can be coated with an epoxy. M.-J. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5C5A.1AF66A60 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiANAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD0AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AU01UUABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAAAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4A ATABAAAAEgAAACdnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAVAAAAU01UUDpHTEFTU0BCVU5H SS5DT00AAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAN8KwEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5N aWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAWAAAAUkU6IHBvdXJpbmcgY29uY3JldGU6AKIHAQWA AwAOAAAAzQcFAAkACQATAB4ABQAhAQEggAMADgAAAM0HBQAJAAkADQAxAAUALgEBCYABACEAAABD ODMzMTYxQTNDQzhEMDExQkJFMDAwREQwMTE1OTVDOAASBwEDkAYA7AQAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMA JgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBAcduge1y8AR4AcAABAAAAFgAAAFJFOiBwb3VyaW5n IGNvbmNyZXRlOgAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8XHugyhoWM8nIPBHQu+AA3QEVlcgAAB4AHgwBAAAA BQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAASAAAAbGNiZWxsQG1lbWFjaC5jb20AAAADAAYQbtQIEwMABxDa AgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAVUgsSU1OT1RBQ0lWSUxFTkdJTkVFUkJVVElIQVZFU09NRUVYUEVSSUVO Q0VXSVRIUkVJTkZPUkNFRENPTkNSRVRFQkxPQ0tTRk9SRE9DS0lOR1NISVBTSVRTTVlVTkRFUlNU QQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAHIDAABuAwAADQUAAExaRnUUD3mr/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArA c2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzM3AuQHEwKDNARGEzMxIPcIVQeyAoB9CoAIzwnZ AoAHCoENsQtgbmcxMDNfFFALChVhC/AVYGMN4CAAVWgsIEknbSAEbm8FQGEgY2l2OwMRCfBnC4AJ 4AXAYnUJBUBJIBGAdmUgc2MDcB4AZXhwBnEJ8GPjHgAD8HRoIBgQC4ACEPpyHvBkHHACIAUAEcAe ADECYG9jawQgH7EgZCsg0QuAZx4QaAUgcy4JG9B0JwQgbXkgdW5uBIETwABwZCGiH0BhpwVAH0Ae AHJ1E8AgBbHQb3hpZCPQaQIgJIAzA6AkA2ViCsEA0HR1bQdAbCKwJBBsIhAjoG//IpAm0CAAJAIg JychJZki4P0eEHQYEBnAJAEGMR8wIjDOWQhgIVEHsE9UHxAAcMsj4ScwcB2BZXAkwCKw3wWgJQEh sSVqIjBFHfAFwP8RsChRJBAcACuyJdQLgB9gLSxgZCswIrBiCYBzP+wgVCPCE8B1DdAqMAQg/wWw GbEfBRxhLGEkgDDQJMf3G8AlMSuwciwAEbAiMTDQ/nkqkS7VKiEG0AmADbAgAH8vMSesJBYjswDA IrAg0GP/CHAvIRPQBKAmcwPwJoAcELJlLcNobwfgItBsB5B/BCA0Ig2wHfAXoB6QHcFp/HJsHREc cDEwIOEbwC8x7nch8BFwHHBhEbA0Ex3TuxxgE1BvAmAuYQBweS+h3xvAH4AkAQXAHyNvLcEXoP8v gCyTPuUkAgeAH0AEcDJC/G1pJNAhsSlCN8EjdCfB3xPgCfAqUAqFCoVMC4Ak8PEWUGFtcC/gONEK hwtk/xRRC/I9kRPQJkBFCAsZRg3/M/E0ZyuyOAEnMCAoDcAFsP8uI0tBMPEkRAOgHzA74SJizS3B eUb1ObFpaybQIrD3JyEkQzygIBegQbIEICswzzghKTM7ATyBbicFQDFg0ytjKkJTbxvAYUb1T4O3 PZEyUCGjZQdAOTR1J3H7L+AcUHALUAiQJ4EohFLBbwQAJBAgAD2RakaxIjBG3wWxL4A1QUb1C4Bz CHAAcP8e8BvAJdRQYVPiLFIf8TGUhwOgK/NDPU0uLUpDNhcae0ZfFzEAXcAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAR EAEAAABAAAcwIGAf1XpcvAFAAAgwIGAf1XpcvAEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAACJq ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5C5A.1AF66A60-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 08:04:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 08:02:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: pouring concrete: Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 11:00:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May9.7024.0> References: <<1997May8.22038.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-05-04 15:54:33 EDT, you write: > > << When a beam which is supported at > both ends is loaded midway between the supports, > the beam bends down in the > middle >> > > I was thinking about a glass concrete project where > I would make a celtic cross. I was intending to > use reinforcing bars for strength particularly in the > arms. I think one problem with rebar is rust and > water causing the concrete to degrade. > > suggestion? > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass re-bar should be fine. you may want to get a basic book on masonry to show you what the proper way to install it though. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 08:10:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 08:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: pouring concrete: Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 11:06:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May9.7620.0> References: <<1997May9.51930.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > Uh, I'm not a civil engineer but I have some experience with reinforced concrete blocks for docking ships. It's my understanding that the rust or oxidation on the rebar actually helps to meld the concrete to the rebar and strengthens it. You do NOT want to put epoxy coating on the rebar. Ever see them put rebar in roadway beds? That stuff is orange with a coat of oxidation, on purpose. If you rebar is imbedded in the concrete the rust that may occur internally will never show unless you develope > it's only rusted bucause they left it out in the rain, it would be to expensive to coat all the rebar. when they make footings for beach fron property, they stick in thick rebar with a plastic coating to prevent rusting. the little bumps that stick out of the bar hold it in place. generall if the bar rust the cement could start breaking down. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 08:14:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 08:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: pouring concrete: Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 11:18:36 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970509111836.006c68e4@pop.bridge.net> References: <<1997May9.51930.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Gee, I think this is a matter of opinion, not fact. My husband, who builds houses for a living, says it's done both ways. Some oxidation does facilitate the bond between concrete and rebar ... but also increases the likelihood that the rebar will continue to rust and eventually create more problems ... so some concrete builders *do* coat the rebar with epoxy. We just had three walls rebuilt in our house and we discussed, at length, whether we wanted to take the time and money to do just that ...we decided against it, for cost purposes ... opting instead to time the delivery of the rebar with the pouring of the concrete so that oxidation would not occur. Just a different way of doing things ... all these are options ... not hard and fast rules ... >Uh, I'm not a civil engineer but I have some experience with reinforced = >concrete blocks for docking ships. It's my understanding that the rust = >or oxidation on the rebar actually helps to meld the concrete to the = >rebar and strengthens it. You do NOT want to put epoxy coating on the = >rebar. Ever see them put rebar in roadway beds? That stuff is orange = >with a coat of oxidation, on purpose. If you rebar is imbedded in the = >concrete the rust that may occur internally will never show unless you = >develope hairline cracks, in which case you have a problem anyway, = >either with overloading or with the method of mixing and curing the = >cement. > >Linda Campbell=20 > >If rebar is put into concrete before there is rust on it, it's very >unlikely to rust as long as water and air can't get to it. So, a >waterproofing sealer should be applied to the finished project. For = >added >insurance, rebar can be coated with an epoxy. > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 08:21:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 08:18:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Just a Test Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 11:18:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May9.71853.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just a test folks to see if my sysop has solved the problem of getting = rid of all the gibberish I was sending. Thanks for the patience. Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 08:33:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 08:32:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nortel.ca!rstoker From: "Richard Stoker" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re:Green patina help? Date: 09 May 1997 11:29 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The only suggestion I can offer is that Joe Porcelli (he of Glass Craftsman and lampmaking fame) has a video out wherin he uses the Jax stuff to produce the classic green patina on a lamp. His "secret" (which I have never tried to duplicate) is that he uses a "special" Copper patina which actually deposits copper onto the lead line (so he says). Now, where one gets this special copper patina is the big mystery. Perhaps it comes from JAX as well, though I have had a devil of a time trying to locate a wholesaler who stocks the stuff. (Even Ed Hoys, who claims to have every stained glass item known to mankind does not have it listed in their catalog). To be frank, I have never contacted JAX directly, given that I do not have an immediate need for the stuff. Perhaps someone else (or even Joe himself, as he has been known to peruse these pages from time to time) might explain just what the "special" copper patina is, so the rest of us might thereby have access to the bronze-brown finishes that Tiffany and others employed so well. Any takers? Regards, Richard Stoker Turtle Bay Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 09:28:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 09:26:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!wrightk5 From: kristen To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Green patina help? Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 11:31:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1997May9.43122.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk If you go to a creaf store ( michales here has it), they have a finish that is like the finish from oddsey where you first turn the project copper then brown then green. The difference is the price is lower for the "craft patina" and you only turn the project copper then green. Check the area that has patinas for turning picture frames a patina green. Be careful because ther is also a similar product that is a paint and not a patina. I make no clame fo rthe copper topper because I have not used it, however when I have used the patina green is has worked about the same as Jax green patina. The official priduct names are Copper Topper and Patina Green by Mondern options 2325 third street S.F., CA 94107 -- [ Kristen ] [ wrightk5@pilot.msu.edu ] [ ] [ I speak for my self and only represent everything that I am. ] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 10:39:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 10:37:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Subject: Copy of: Dariece: Fireplace Screen Dollar Value Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 13:36:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May9.93633.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Michael J. Greer, 105715,1412 TO: Dariece G. McClure, INTERNET:dariece@juno.com DATE: 5/9/97 11:21 AM RE: Copy of: Dariece: Fireplace Screen Dollar Value Hi Dariece- Will this be a "summer" screen to mask the fireplace when it's not being used? We've always been really leery of doing glass screens, just because of the liability - what happens if it sits in front of a really good hot fire for a few hours and it decides to explode? We had a colleague who did lovely sand-carved screens, sold them like hotcakes for $600-900, until one blew. No one was hurt, no one sued, but.... just something to consider. Anyone else had any experiences with this situation? Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios 603 W. Colorado Ave. Colorado Springs, CO 80905 Phone (719)444-0409 E-mail GreerStudios@compuserve.com Website http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 11:50:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 11:50:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Just a Test Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 14:46:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May9.104632.0> References: <<1997May9.71853.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Linda, May have worked, did not get the winmail.dat file along with the below this time. Thanks Lee Boe Linda Campbell wrote: > > Just a test folks to see if my sysop has solved the problem of getting = > rid of all the gibberish I was sending. Thanks for the patience. Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 12:03:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 12:03:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Green patina help? Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 15:00:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May9.1100.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi, See my prior message, JAX sells direct, In fact when I ordered, Jacques Simons himself answered the phone and took the order. It was lunch time there when I called. He was most helpful,and said to call if I needed help. The instructions on the bottles are very complete. Use the copper plating (plating-not patina) solution (which adheers to the lead/tin solder). Then the green patina which works on the copper plating. JAX is 1-914-668-1818 in Mt. Vernon, NY- you will have to do some experimenting to get this just what you want. The advantage of finding it at your local store is lower shipping for quantity.. Has to ship UPS ground, with the hazardous package surcharge. And looking at their price list they have the Jax Brown that works on copper too-I did not order that. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Richard Stoker wrote: > > The only suggestion I can offer is that Joe Porcelli (he of Glass > Craftsman and lampmaking fame) has a video out wherin he uses the Jax > stuff to produce the classic green patina on a lamp. His "secret" (which > I have never tried to duplicate) is that he uses a "special" Copper > patina which actually deposits copper onto the lead line (so he says). > Now, where one gets this special copper patina is the big mystery. > Perhaps it comes from JAX as well, though I have had a devil of a time > trying to locate a wholesaler who stocks the stuff. (Even Ed Hoys, who > claims to have every stained glass item known to mankind does not have it > listed in their catalog). To be frank, I have never contacted JAX > directly, given that I do not have an immediate need for the stuff. > > Perhaps someone else (or even Joe himself, as he has been known to peruse > these pages from time to time) might explain just what the "special" > copper patina is, so the rest of us might thereby have access to the > bronze-brown finishes that Tiffany and others employed so well. Any > takers? > > Regards, > Richard Stoker > Turtle Bay Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 15:05:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 15:04:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Green Patina Help Date: Fri, 9 May 97 18:07:15 -0400 Message-ID: <199705092204.SAA13915@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Subject: Re: Green patina help Date: Wed, 7 May 97 22:11:30 -0400 From: suzanne albright To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Hi all Bungians. Maybe someone here can help me with a problem. I >recently purchased some Jax Green Patina, and am not at all satisfied with >the results. Hi - I don't have the answer to your problem but I know who probably does. It is Joe Porcelli, the editor of Glass Craftsman magazine. Try him at http://www.gcmagazine@aol.com or, Arts & Media Inc., PO Box 678, Richboro, PA 18954-0678. TEL. (215) 860-9947. FAX (215) 860-1812. suzanne albright suzanne albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 15:13:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 15:13:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Morton System Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 18:15:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1997May9.111553.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: The Craft Nook, Inc. Precedence: bulk To A. Fernandez..sorry bungi group but need to contack A.F.Having trouble sending mail.... Call us at 904-321-1601 Thanks Walter Sorry Bungi group ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 15:27:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 15:27:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: pouring concrete: Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 18:33:41 +0000 Message-ID: <199705092227.SAA07047@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > or oxidation on the rebar actually helps to meld the concrete to the = > rebar and strengthens it. Same thing with lead in came ... it oxidizes on the surface and that helps prolong its life. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 18:19:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 18:17:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: beachaccess.com!marrex From: "MARGARET ETHERIDGE" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: subscribe Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 21:14:26 Message-ID: <1997May10.41426.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Beach Access BBS Precedence: bulk Please add me to your mailing list marrex@beachaccess.com thanks a lot. * JDS Mail & News ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 9 20:40:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 May 1997 20:39:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 22:41:16 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May9.224116.0> References: <<199703231539.KAA10302@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk Hello! We are tentatively scheduling a field trip to Warner-Crivellaro on May 31st. Angelo has said that he will demonstrate some of the overlay techniques that R.N. Oddy has used in his incredible pieces. Wanna play with us? Know anybody else who wants to play with us? Respond here or to my e-mail address: hilary@voicenet.com so we can figure out if carpooling is possible and when to meet. Take care, Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 10 07:04:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 May 1997 07:03:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 10:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May10.6349.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Where is Warner-Crivelaro located? If it isn't too terribly far from South Jersey area, I would love to join you. The reason being, I have a dog that needs attention. Cannot leave him as an all day affair unless I get a sitter. Thanks for your input. Looking to joining you on May 3l. Bubstah ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 10 09:52:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 May 1997 09:51:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'bungians'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bird Patterns Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 12:53:06 -0100 Message-ID: <1997May10.11536.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk For Wayne Munro.. There is a flying owl pattern on the winter issue of = Glass Pattern Quarterly ( Winter 93/94) . This was when the full size = patterns came with the magazine you purchased.. The owl is interesting = since it is flying straight at you with the wings extended.. GPQ does = sell back issues. Also, there are nice birds in the Glas Designs Wildlife by Verlag = EvaMarie Vlokmann KG.. The one that interested me was the cranes in a = water scene with waterlilies, pods and leaves.. This book also has = penguins, and sand pipers also.. Gloria ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 10 12:56:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 May 1997 12:56:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: epix.net!winola From: winola@epix.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 12:23:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1997May9.5239.0> References: <<1997May9.224116.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hilary A. Bobker wrote: > > Hello! > > We are tentatively scheduling a field trip to Warner-Crivellaro on May > 31st. Angelo has said that he will demonstrate some of the overlay > techniques that R.N. Oddy has used in his incredible pieces. Wanna play > with us? Know anybody else who wants to play with us? Respond here or to > my e-mail address: hilary@voicenet.com so we can figure out if > carpooling is possible and when to meet. > > Take care, > Hilary > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 10 13:54:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 May 1997 13:53:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3 From: Garry McKenna To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: swan pattern Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 16:52:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970510205225.0067d4bc@mail.kwic.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi. I usually am a lurker here. First I want to Congratulate Elisabeth on her fight for her friend Susan. What a lucky gal she is to have you as a friend in her corner! I am certainly cheering for you and will wait for further news. In the matter of a swan pattern, I happened to come across one this morning. It is quite nice, an oval approx. 8 x 12 inches, quite simple really. Just the swan, water and some cattails. If you are interested, you could let me know. I happen to have 2 copies and would be pleased to send you one. Linda. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 10 14:21:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 May 1997 14:20:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 16:21:49 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May10.162149.0> References: <<1997May10.6349.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > Where is Warner-Crivelaro located? Hi, Bubstah, My blessed husband stays home with our dawgies while I go play at W-C. One trip to W-C is worth two trips to Home Depot. Ain't marriage grand? W-C is located in Allentown. It is a straight shot up the Blue Route (476) and then the Northeast extension of the PA turnpike, then turn right for about 10 minutes. I'm in the close suburbs of Philly on the SW side and it takes me about 1 hour and 15 minutes to get there. Our previous field trips have meant arriving at W-C sometime between 10 and 11, shopping, watching Angelo, lunching, shopping, watching Angelo, shopping, giving the house and the first born to W-C and then leaving sometime between 2 and 4. Angelo starts his demos at 11. Lunching is optional, also. W-C usually has coffee and donuts for the "watchers." Does this help you set the time frame? This is turning into a real party! There are at least eight of us so far! Let me know if you can make it! Take care, Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 10 15:13:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 May 1997 15:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 18:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May10.141243.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Hilary, count me in! Wow what a great time.....hey if someone comes a long distance they can "bungee" jump down into the place.... Maureen. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 10 16:56:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 May 1997 16:55:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: epix.net!winola From: winola@epix.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 19:53:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May10.155314.0> References: <<1997May9.5239.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk winola@epix.net wrote: > > Hilary A. Bobker wrote: > > > > Hello! > > > > We are tentatively scheduling a field trip to Warner-Crivellaro on May > > 31st. Angelo has said that he will demonstrate some of the overlay > > techniques that R.N. Oddy has used in his incredible pieces. Wanna play > > with us? Know anybody else who wants to play with us? Respond here or to > > my e-mail address: hilary@voicenet.com so we can figure out if > > carpooling is possible and when to meet. > > > > Take care, > > Hilary > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass hi I was there today. spent the first born . so i still have the house , sure i'll play. jean winola@epix.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 10 20:23:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 May 1997 20:21:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 22:22:45 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May10.222245.0> References: <<1997May10.141243.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > Hi Hilary, count me in! Wow what a great time.....hey if someone comes a > long distance they can "bungee" jump down into the place.... Hi back! Maureen, This is turning into a BIG party. Counting my friends from work, there are at least 11 of us! Where do you live? Do you want to carpool? Do you want to ride or drive? Take care, Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 10 21:27:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 May 1997 21:25:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: concentric.net!shmfcoop From: "M. Cooper" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: swan pattern Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 00:27:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1997May10.172754.0> References: <<1.5.4.32.19970510205225.0067d4bc@mail.kwic.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda, I would really appreciate the swan pattern. The glass swan will be for my 87 year-old grandmother, who loves the swans that frequent the pond near her home. Meigan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 10 21:56:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 May 1997 21:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 00:54:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May10.205451.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Hilary, I live in Philadelphia, Northeasty kinda territory. I can do what ever needs to be done. Figure I will go our awhoring for the next couple weeks to finance the bill.....lol maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 10 22:04:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 May 1997 22:02:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 01:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May10.21248.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk YIKES!!!!! that last note from me was supposed to go to Hilary....not the whole dag gum list, including those armed with flame throwers.....sorry....sheesh.... maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 11 14:28:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 May 1997 14:27:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!ANLGlass From: ANLGlass@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: "Saguaro Sunset" pattern Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 17:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May11.132726.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone know who makes this pattern? It's in the Delphi catalog. I need to get a copy. (So why don't I just order it from Delphi? I'd rather get it from my local wholesaler if I can ... I'm short of making the minimum for the year!) Thanks ... Marilyn Kaminski A New Light ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 12 05:49:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 May 1997 05:48:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: imcnet.net!hotel From: Murray R Maxon To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: tiffany restoration Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 08:43:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May11.44345.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Ontario Place Hotel Precedence: bulk we have three tiffany windows in our church that need restoration. Do you recommend restoring in place or removal. we are reluctant to remove. have estimates from several craftsman, some say take out others say leave in. what do you say? your answer will be greatly appreciated. murray maxon. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 12 06:26:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 May 1997 06:24:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: tiffany restoration Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 09:23:21 EDT Message-ID: <1997May12.132321.0> References: <<1997May11.44345.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm on the side of the take out group, the cost will be higher, but the results and the ease of the work will improve. Don DeVoto On Sun, 11 May 1997 08:43:45 -0400 Murray R Maxon writes: >we have three tiffany windows in our church that need restoration. Do >you recommend restoring in place or removal. we are reluctant to >remove. have estimates from several craftsman, some say take out >others >say leave in. what do you say? >your answer will be greatly appreciated. > >murray maxon. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 12 07:49:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 May 1997 07:47:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: gr.cns.net!pristine From: mcFrenzy To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: tiffany restoration Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:39:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May12.63923.0> References: <<1997May11.44345.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk If it's restoration then there is no question about their removal. Murray R Maxon wrote: > > we have three tiffany windows in our church that need restoration. Do > you recommend restoring in place or removal. we are reluctant to > remove. have estimates from several craftsman, some say take out others > say leave in. what do you say? > your answer will be greatly appreciated. > > murray maxon. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 12 08:05:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 May 1997 08:03:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Mon, 12 May 97 11:01:08 EDT Message-ID: <970512.110335.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1997May10.155314.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ...and then you will describe those overlay techniques for those of us for whom the trip is a LITTLE too long, right? Take good notes and have fun. (re:WC fieldtrip) -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 12 08:07:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 May 1997 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: "Saguaro Sunset" pattern Date: Mon, 12 May 97 08:05:47 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1997May11.132726.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > Does anyone know who makes this pattern? It's in the Delphi catalog. I need > to get a copy. > > (So why don't I just order it from Delphi? I'd rather get it from my local > wholesaler if I can ... I'm short of making the minimum for the year!) > > Thanks ... > > Marilyn Kaminski > A New Light if you have access to a xerox machine and a small picture of it, you can make it yourself. you can buy clear sheets of acetate that can go through the copier. just copy it, then use an overhead projector to show it on a wall, and you can make it any size you want. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 12 08:28:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 May 1997 08:26:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: "Saguaro Sunset" pattern Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:26:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May12.72641.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk While I'm not sure of the legalities of this, I tried it once. The end = product was distorted verrrry badly. The small line drawing looked fine = but when enlarged the circle turned into an egg, off by as much as 1/2 = inch. Ugh, I bought the pattern. Linda Campbell ---------- From: Charles Spitzer[SMTP:charlie@az.stratus.com] if you have access to a xerox machine and a small picture of it, you can = =20 make it yourself. you can buy clear sheets of acetate that can go = through =20 the copier. just copy it, then use an overhead projector to show it on a = =20 wall, and you can make it any size you want. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 12 14:15:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 May 1997 14:14:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: "Saguaro Sunset" pattern Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:11:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May12.131145.0> References: <<1997May12.72641.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > While I'm not sure of the legalities of this, I tried it once. The end = > product was distorted verrrry badly. The small line drawing looked fine = > but when enlarged the circle turned into an egg, off by as much as 1/2 = > inch. Ugh, I bought the pattern. > > Linda Campbell > > ---------- > From: Charles Spitzer[SMTP:charlie@az.stratus.com] > > if you have access to a xerox machine and a small picture of it, you can = > =20 > make it yourself. you can buy clear sheets of acetate that can go = > through =20 > the copier. just copy it, then use an overhead projector to show it on a = > =20 > wall, and you can make it any size you want. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i've always blown my images up by hand with an opaque projector. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 12 14:37:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 May 1997 14:36:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: "Saguaro Sunset" pattern Date: Mon, 12 May 97 17:39:13 -0400 Message-ID: <199705122136.RAA19234@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Does anyone know who makes this pattern? It's in the Delphi catalog. I need >to >get a copy. > >Marilyn Kaminski >A New Light Hi Marilyn, the pattern is in a book called "Southwest Designs II" by Jennifer Cole. A picture of it is on the back cover, and the pattern is on p. 25. If you don't want to deal with blowing it up, you can order it from Expressions Art Glass, 602-886-7720. It is their pattern No. JC-39. Their pattern is 32 x 22 and it costs $9.00. Good Luck, Suzanne Albright > suzanne albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 12 18:33:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 May 1997 18:32:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nobleco.net!glass From: "Paul Wallace" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: tiffany restoration Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 20:41:45 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May12.204145.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: Murray R Maxon > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: tiffany restoration > Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 08:43:45 -0400 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > Organization: Ontario Place Hotel > we have three tiffany windows in our church that need restoration. Do > you recommend restoring in place or removal. we are reluctant to > remove. have estimates from several craftsman, some say take out others > say leave in. what do you say? > your answer will be greatly appreciated. If they are real tiffany windows let one of the big companies with $$$ in insurance handle them. Paul ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 12 20:42:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 May 1997 20:41:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 23:41:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May12.194142.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I think I will have to catch you another time when you may go to WC for the day.. It would be almost impossible for me to get there that early and leave my four legged buddy for that many hours. I live near Atlantic City and it would be at least 2 1/2 hours for me in travel time. Maybe longer if I hit any traffic. To get to the Tacony Bridge it takes me about 1 hour l5 minutes or for that matter, any bridge would be that or a bit more time depending on traffic. Have fun and enjoy the day. Bubstah ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 05:06:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 05:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: What you can do with patterns Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 07:45:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May13.34521.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I just bought a pattern book for coastal lighthouses and inside it says = I can use the pattern for family and friends but that I can't make = anything for resale by their patterns. Anyone else heard of this. Can = they really enforce this? I've been talking to a consignment craft shop = that will take anything I can do with lighthouses. Seems to me that once = I change the pattern to suit me, it's mine. Linda Campbell Suffolk, VA On the perimeter of the Great Dismal Swamp ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 07:12:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 07:11:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!ScottSGN From: ScottSGN@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May13.61150.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: >I just bought a pattern book for coastal lighthouses and inside it says >I can use the pattern for family and friends but that I can't make >anything for resale by their patterns. Actually, it *doesn't* say that you "can't make anything for resale." It says that if you plan to build these projects for resale or commercial use, you will need to write to the publisher for permission. >Anyone else heard of this. I have. But then, I'm the publisher of that book. >Can they really enforce this? I've been talking to a consignment craft shop >that will take anything I can do with lighthouses. Since the patterns are copyrighted material, we *can* enforce it, but we'd rather not. We'd rather people simply do what it says... write to us for permission. If you'd like to do that, we'll send you a letter explaining that if you are making a few of these projects for consignment shops (or craft fairs or whatever), that's fine with us. If, on the other hand, you are making larger quanitites of one particular project for resale (perhaps through a catalog) we assume that a small part of the reason the project is continuing to sell for you is because it was made from a nice design. Therefore, we also expect to start receiving a small part of the income, which involves a small royalty fee. >Seems to me that once I change the pattern to suit me, it's mine. If you change the pattern as to be not recognizable as the original (the simplest legal explanation), you can do whatever you want with it. Like most publishers in our industry, we're actually very reasonable folks. But a few of us have run into isolated cases of copyright abuse, so we have to cover ourselves with statements like the one you referred to in the front of our book. We're glad you like the book and hope you have fun making, and selling, projects from it. Scott SGN Publishing ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 07:36:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 07:35:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: What you can do with patterns Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:35:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May13.63521.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Scott,=20 So nice to hear from the voice of reason. Maybe I got myself all wound = up for nothing. I assumed that permission also involved money, but it = sounds like in my case (small consignment sales) it may not. Please send = me the letter you spoke of with permission or directions on how to get = permission. By the way, the Coastal Lighthouses is a very nice book with = nice designs and lots of options on size and shape - and something we = have been talking about here at bungi - overlays of glass for special = effects. It came to my local shop at a time when I had been asked for = just such designs, especially the Hatteras Lighthouse since the shop is = in North Carolina. This will be my first attempt at having my work in a = craft shop and I'm really excited about the prospects. Thanks again for = the explanation, Scott. Linda Campbell Suffolk, VA On the perimeter of the Great Dismal Swamp I don't speak for Metro Machine nor they for me. ---------- From: ScottSGN@aol.com[SMTP:ScottSGN@aol.com] >I just bought a pattern book for coastal lighthouses and inside it says = >I can use the pattern for family and friends but that I can't make=20 >anything for resale by their patterns.=20 Actually, it *doesn't* say that you "can't make anything for resale." It = says that if you plan to build these projects for resale or commercial use, = you will need to write to the publisher for permission. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 08:36:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 08:34:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: netbistro.com!pom From: pom@netbistro.com (J. Smith) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Pricing Pieces Date: Tue, 13 May 97 08:41 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk P.S Thanx Wayne for the advice , I will keep that in mind! Hi to all! I know this is probably a subject beaten to death..... but...how do you price your pieces????? No Algebra please as I was never good at it! My neighbour is wanting to buy a piece I have hanging in the window (It's a one square ft.piece with about 25 pieces , tulips and leaves , with an irradecent border Oh It's copper foiled.......... Mostly water glass. I'm sure this is difficult and maybee the begining stages of Becoming A Professional (just excited today)!!!....... Thanx in advance Jennifer the newbie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 08:45:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 08:45:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: tiffany restoration Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:40:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199705131540.KAA24851@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 08:43 AM 5/11/97 -0400, Murray R Maxon wrote: >we have three tiffany windows in our church that need restoration. Do >you recommend restoring in place or removal. we are reluctant to >remove. have estimates from several craftsman, some say take out others >say leave in. what do you say? >your answer will be greatly appreciated. > >murray maxon. Hi Murry, Its difficult to give an opinion based on the amount of information you provided. I would think by now you have received private email from members of this list soliciting your business. In any case I'll try and provide a little info although its difficult sight unseen. Take bids only from established concerns that can provide proper credentials and referrels from customers who have had similiar work done. Avoid instant experts, anybody can read a book and talk a good game. Very few local glass shops can take on this type of work without jepordizing your priceless windows Unless you have unlimited funding you will have to decide on the DEGREE of repair you should have done at THIS TIME. Some companies will attempt to put you on a guilt trip if you don't agree to a complete restoration right now, conversely avoid the quicky fix hit and run artist. If there are financial constrants, set up a schedule of repair based on priority. Fix one properly now, one in the next year or two. If your windows are indeed authenticated Tiffanys they deserve the best possible treatment that you can realistically afford. There are very few situations when windows should not be removed for repair, if the window required rebracing or if the window needed minor repairs and is puttyed into stone tracery, would be a couple of examples. If the windows need restoration (ambiguous term) but does not require a complete relead, I recommend using a company that will do the work ON SITE as opposed to carting them off somewhere. Many studios are equipped and experienced to perform work in this manner. The work will get done faster, safer and it gives you opportunity to have the work scrutinized in progress. Good Luck! Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 08:45:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 08:45:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: tiffany restoration Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:40:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199705131540.KAA24849@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 08:43 AM 5/11/97 -0400, Murray R Maxon wrote: >we have three tiffany windows in our church that need restoration. Do >you recommend restoring in place or removal. we are reluctant to >remove. have estimates from several craftsman, some say take out others >say leave in. what do you say? >your answer will be greatly appreciated. > >murray maxon. Hi Murry, Its difficult to give an opinion based on the amount of information you provided. I would think by now you have received private email from members of this list soliciting your business. In any case I'll try and provide a little info although its difficult sight unseen. Take bids only from established concerns that can provide proper credentials and referrels from customers who have had similiar work done. Avoid instant experts, anybody can read a book and talk a good game. Very few local glass shops can take on this type of work without jepordizing your priceless windows Unless you have unlimited funding you will have to decide on the DEGREE of repair you should have done at THIS TIME. Some companies will attempt to put you on a guilt trip if you don't agree to a complete restoration right now, conversely avoid the quicky fix hit and run artist. If there are financial constrants, set up a schedule of repair based on priority. Fix one properly now, one in the next year or two. If your windows are indeed authenticated Tiffanys they deserve the best possible treatment that you can realistically afford. There are very few situations when windows should not be removed for repair, if the window required rebracing or if the window needed minor repairs and is puttyed into stone tracery, would be a couple of examples. If the windows need restoration (ambiguous term) but does not require a complete relead, I recommend using a company that will do the work ON SITE as opposed to carting them off somewhere. Many studios are equipped and experienced to perform work in this manner. The work will get done faster, safer and it gives you opportunity to have the work scrutinized in progress. Good Luck! Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 09:07:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 09:06:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 09:54:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May13.55458.0> References: <<1997May13.34521.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > I just bought a pattern book for coastal lighthouses and inside it says = > I can use the pattern for family and friends but that I can't make = > anything for resale by their patterns. Anyone else heard of this. Can = > they really enforce this? I've been talking to a consignment craft shop = > that will take anything I can do with lighthouses. Seems to me that once = > I change the pattern to suit me, it's mine. > > Linda Campbell > Suffolk, VA > On the perimeter of the Great Dismal Swamp > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i really can't see how they can enforce this. even if you coose a slighlty different color of glass, you can use it against them. besides who's gonna know? what are the chances that the person of the book is going to come, then reconize it. but you never know... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 09:07:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 09:06:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3 From: Garry McKenna To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: swan pattern Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:00:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970513140044.00672e10@mail.kwic.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Bonnie No problem - your pattern will be in the mail today. Meigan Your Grandmother will love this patter - however - I need an address for you in order to send it off. If you wish, you could reach me privately and it will be in the mail ASAP. By the way your Philly-bound people? I am pea green with envy, enjoy and come home and tell us all about it! Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 09:07:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 09:06:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: tiffany restoration Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:36:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199705131336.IAA19760@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 08:43 AM 5/11/97 -0400, Murray R Maxon wrote: >we have three tiffany windows in our church that need restoration. Do >you recommend restoring in place or removal. we are reluctant to >remove. have estimates from several craftsman, some say take out others >say leave in. what do you say? >your answer will be greatly appreciated. > >murray maxon. Hi Murry, Its difficult to give an opinion based on the amount of information you provided. I would think by now you have received private email from members of this list soliciting your business. In any case I'll try and provide a little info although its difficult sight unseen. Take bids only from established concerns that can provide proper credentials and referrels from customers who have had similiar work done. Avoid instant experts, anybody can read a book and talk a good game. Very few local glass shops can take on this type of work without jepordizing your priceless windows Unless you have unlimited funding you will have to decide on the DEGREE of repair you should have done at THIS TIME. Some companies will attempt to put you on a guilt trip if you don't agree to a complete restoration right now, conversely avoid the quicky fix hit and run artist. If there are financial constrants, set up a schedule of repair based on priority. Fix one properly now, one in the next year or two. If your windows are indeed authenticated Tiffanys they deserve the best possible treatment that you can realistically afford. There are very few situations when windows should not be removed for repair, if the window required rebracing or if the window needed minor repairs and is puttyed into stone tracery, would be a couple of examples. If the windows need restoration (ambiguous term) but does not require a complete relead, I recommend using a company that will do the work ON SITE as opposed to carting them off somewhere. Many studios are equipped and experienced to perform work in this manner. The work will get done faster, safer and it gives you opportunity to have the work scrutinized in progress. Good Luck! Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 09:08:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 09:06:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:21:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199705131213.IAA13236@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I just bought a pattern book for coastal lighthouses and inside it says = > I can use the pattern for family and friends but that I can't make = > anything for resale by their patterns. Anyone else heard of this. Can = > they really enforce this? The copyright would keep you from re-publishing their designs in another pattern book ... or even copying any of them for someone else, but it would be very difficult for them to keep you from *using the patterns to produce stained glass pieces for resale, since that's why they published the book. You can relax about that. Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 10:14:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 10:12:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Subject: What you can do with patterns Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:10:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May13.91030.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Nice explanation from Scott at SGN Publishing. Copyright is an important issue for anyone selling work - another good source of basic information is "The Artists' Market", available at most bookstores and libraries. The laws very heavily favor the original artist and it's important to know and understand them. There are aspects of the law that can be very annoying depending on which side of the fence you're on. For example, if I sell you a custom-designed window for your business, I can still use that original image for my own purposes without your permission. However, you cannot use the image to promote your business (on brochures, for example) unless you get my permission, no matter how much the window cost - not unless I have specifically sold the reproduction rights to you. Seems like that should be common knowledge, but it's not. In fact, most folks are surprised. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 11:46:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 11:45:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:43:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199705131843.NAA02785@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk For example, if I sell you >a custom-designed window for your business, I can still use that original >image for my own purposes without your permission. However, you cannot use >the image to promote your business (on brochures, for example) unless you >get my permission, no matter how much the window cost - not unless I have >specifically sold the reproduction rights to you. Boy, someones going to splash your work all over the place in a brochure and your going to squeeze them for a reproduction right fee? I dunno. How about just a credit on the printed material? Seems more neighborly. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 14:27:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 14:26:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Subject: What you can do with patterns Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 16:32:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May13.123214.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Credit on the printed material is usually fine, Len, but many times artists don't get even that! The point is - it's neighborly to ASK especially when someone has a printed "permission" clause on their material. And if the artist says "no", that needs to be honored. Otherwise, you're pirating their work and that's neither nice nor ethical nor legal. Of course, we do only original and one-of-a-kind work and don't sell or publish our patterns for anyone else's use, so copyright is pretty clear. I agree with Albert that publication of designs creates somewhat of a gray area. Having said all that, I'll also share with you how I came to be a member of this group. pj Friend stumbled upon our website and was kind enough to e-mail me with some nice compliments and a tip that I should have a copyright notice on our work! Still haven't gotten to it, but it's on my list of things to get to before the end of the decade. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 15:12:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 15:12:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: fast.net!charles From: Charles To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:04:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May13.14440.0> References: <<199705131843.NAA02785@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Recently we asked for bids on some photo work and were surprised that at least one photographer had conditions such as: we could only use the photos for two years, beyond that there was an additional royalty charge, only one use of the photos was permitted such as in a brochure (catalog use was prohibited) The bid was for photos of exciting things like a bottle of flux. This was the first bid we threw out. Anyone can put limits on their work but you don't have to accept them. Look at the large number of reasonably priced copyright free art books Dover publishes. Charles Warner > > Boy, someones going to splash your work all over the place in a brochure and > your going to squeeze them for a reproduction right fee? I dunno. How about > just a credit on the printed material? Seems more neighborly. > > Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 15:33:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 15:32:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: What you can do with patterns Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:30:34 -0100 Message-ID: <1997May13.173034.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ps. Where did you purchase the patternbook.. I would like to buy a copy. Thanks Gloria ---------- From: Linda Campbell[SMTP:lcbell@memach.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 1997 1:35 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: What you can do with patterns Scott,=20 So nice to hear from the voice of reason. Maybe I got myself all wound = up for nothing. I assumed that permission also involved money, but it = sounds like in my case (small consignment sales) it may not. Please send = me the letter you spoke of with permission or directions on how to get = permission. By the way, the Coastal Lighthouses is a very nice book with = nice designs and lots of options on size and shape - and something we = have been talking about here at bungi - overlays of glass for special = effects. It came to my local shop at a time when I had been asked for = just such designs, especially the Hatteras Lighthouse since the shop is = in North Carolina. This will be my first attempt at having my work in a = craft shop and I'm really excited about the prospects. Thanks again for = the explanation, Scott. Linda Campbell Suffolk, VA On the perimeter of the Great Dismal Swamp I don't speak for Metro Machine nor they for me. ---------- From: ScottSGN@aol.com[SMTP:ScottSGN@aol.com] >I just bought a pattern book for coastal lighthouses and inside it says = >I can use the pattern for family and friends but that I can't make=20 >anything for resale by their patterns.=20 Actually, it *doesn't* say that you "can't make anything for resale." It = says that if you plan to build these projects for resale or commercial use, = you will need to write to the publisher for permission. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 15:33:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 15:32:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: What you can do with patterns Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:27:24 -0100 Message-ID: <1997May13.172724.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I live very close to Mr. Molchany and I have purchased finished = products and glass from him.. Rich is the designer of the Molchany Rose = lamp shade or now the new name Sweetheart Rose that the glass = reproduction companies (?) do for the likes of Eric Lighting , or = Mexican ware, Chinese ware, or any of the outside (?) craftsmen = do.. Because they change 1 or 2 pattern cuts, he lost his copyright / = royalties on this pattern, believe me, they are not rich people and = just earn a living from a retail glass studio and their own talent.. = Put yourself in their position.. I know that maybe this lighthouse = pattern company may not want you to sell thousands, a few might be = okay, but they want to deter their designs from the should I say the = foreign mass produced market.. You may from courtesy, write to them and = ask if limited ( 1 to how many pieces) might be appropriate.. that is = why I did not reply to the bungi Glass Atlas patterns.. For now I have = been selling from an adaptation of other patterns and I feel that = putting my name on that piece distracts from the rights of the original = artist. I am only adapting one piece and that is not mass producing.. = and as others say, that is my 2 cents. Gloria at 3 Hounds=20 ---------- From: Linda Campbell[SMTP:lcbell@memach.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 1997 10:45 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: What you can do with patterns I just bought a pattern book for coastal lighthouses and inside it says = =3D I can use the pattern for family and friends but that I can't make =3D anything for resale by their patterns. Anyone else heard of this. Can = =3D they really enforce this? I've been talking to a consignment craft shop = =3D that will take anything I can do with lighthouses. Seems to me that once = =3D I change the pattern to suit me, it's mine. Linda Campbell Suffolk, VA On the perimeter of the Great Dismal Swamp ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 15:44:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 15:44:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> To: All , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: What you can do with patterns Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:46:17 -0100 Message-ID: <1997May13.174617.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk What should I say, Great for you.. I have been on this bungi news = line for some time, and maybe you are appreciating that I am not PC = friendly and could not reply to some messages, but please remember, that = our designs take many hours of time and thought, that should entitle = us from enabling the foreign (?) to mass produce.. Hey, Bungians, Let's come up with a title for the Chinese ware, Mexican ware ect.. that = we can use..=20 PET PIEVE. Gloria @ 3 Hounds ---------- From: Michael J. Greer[SMTP:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 1997 7:32 PM To: All Subject: What you can do with patterns Credit on the printed material is usually fine, Len, but many times = artists don't get even that! The point is - it's neighborly to ASK especially = when someone has a printed "permission" clause on their material. And if the artist says "no", that needs to be honored. Otherwise, you're pirating their work and that's neither nice nor ethical nor legal. Of course, we = do only original and one-of-a-kind work and don't sell or publish our = patterns for anyone else's use, so copyright is pretty clear. I agree with = Albert that publication of designs creates somewhat of a gray area.=20 Having said all that, I'll also share with you how I came to be a member = of this group. pj Friend stumbled upon our website and was kind enough to e-mail me with some nice compliments and a tip that I should have a copyright notice on our work! Still haven't gotten to it, but it's on = my list of things to get to before the end of the decade. Best regards, Dani Greer=20 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 16:06:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 16:05:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:09:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199705132302.TAA19753@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Boy, someones going to splash your work all over the place in a brochure and > your going to squeeze them for a reproduction right fee? I dunno. How about > just a credit on the printed material? Seems more neighborly. Of course, if the photo's used on the cover of PhotographyToday and the owner of the window is paid $10,000 by the magazine for the right to republish the photo of your work, you might feel less neighborly. albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 16:06:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 16:05:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: tiffany restoration Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:09:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199705132302.TAA19762@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len, with some of what you've said I would agree, with other comments I would take issue. Restoration of stained glass as it's being increasingly practiced these days (meaning that it's being done in the manner that Europeans have long since adopted) is, as you indicate, a combination of technical know-how and an ethical philosophy. "Philosophy?" you ask. Yep, deciding whether t'is nobler to remove and risk damage in the removal or to leave in place and hazard continued damage being caused by whatever requires careful thinking and a reasoned argument for whatever decision's finally made. My 2c worth and 1c or 2c more to follow. > Take bids only from established concerns that can provide proper credentials > and referrels from customers who have had similiar work done. Excellent advice. > Unless you have unlimited funding you will have to decide on the DEGREE of > repair you should have done at THIS TIME. Also good advice. Scheduling good work by experienced craftspeople over a period of time means that those entrusted with windows (as are their owners, since they're preserving them for those who come after them) can also schedule fund raising to meet the necessarily high costs of good, thoughtful, careful restoration. Of primary importance is the well-being of the windows, not whether studio A or studio B gets the job and can buy that boat this year. > There are very few situations when windows should not be removed for > repair, if the window required rebracing or if the window needed minor > repairs and is puttyed into stone tracery, would be a couple of examples. Okay, Len, I'm with you so far if I understand you correctly: you're saying that it's a rare thing for windows being restored to *not be removed, right? I'd agree with that. > If the windows need restoration (ambiguous term) but does not require a > complete relead, I recommend using a company that will do the work ON SITE > as opposed to carting them off somewhere. Many studios are equipped and > experienced to perform work in this manner. The work will get done faster, > safer and it gives you opportunity to have the work scrutinized in progress. But here I have to take exception. Apart from the most minor repair work, windows being restored should be removed, crated, taken to the studio and worked on flat. To do otherwise may save the client money in the short run, but the hazards to the windows are greatly increased. The client will be glad of the money saved today, but the windows will *not be better off for not having been handled properly. Gosh, it was more like 10c worth. Sorry. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 16:09:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 16:07:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@Bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:09:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199705132302.TAA19757@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I agree with Albert > that publication of designs creates somewhat of a gray area. Oh, sorry. I wasn't clear: it's black and white ... you can't republish the patterns in any way *as *patterns. So you couldn't buy "Lighthouses I Have Known and Loved" and reprint them as "Lighthouses I Have Known and Loved, Too." That would violate the copyright. But since the patterns have been published as patterns to use in the creation of stained glass, the finished stained glass panel is yours to do with as you like, keep or sell to anyone, although the pattern isn't yours. > Having said all that, I'll also share with you how I came to be a member of > this group. pj Friend stumbled upon our website and was kind enough to > e-mail me with some nice compliments and a tip that I should have a > copyright notice on our work! Still haven't gotten to it, but it's on my > list of things to get to before the end of the decade. There's nothing wrong with putting the notice on your site, Dani, but it's not strictly necessary. These days, as soon as something's written, drawn, painted or otherwise created in any way/shape/form or fashion, it's immediately copyrighted. (Which doesn't mean that I don't put the notice on things; I do!) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 16:10:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 16:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:16:01 +0000 Message-ID: <199705132308.TAA20127@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Recently we asked for bids on some photo work and were surprised > that at least one photographer had conditions such as: > we could only use the photos for two years, beyond that > there was an additional royalty charge, > only one use of the photos was permitted such as in a brochure > (catalog use was prohibited) Oh, Charles, I think I *know that photographer! Was his name "Wayne"? I could tell you a story about 4x5 shots we paid for in Illinois, flying the photographer there, putting him up, paying an outlandish daily rate (well, he is a good photographer), then a Scene At The Airport, where he refused to allow airline folks take a look at his "black bag" without explaining that it was all exposed, unprocessed film in there (this was just after the Lockerbie bombing and everyone was very nervous). Then he wanted to hold us up for thousands of dollars for "anguish and pressure," or something like that. We told him to "go fish." Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 16:24:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 16:24:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Pricing Pieces Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:21:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May13.152153.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk J. Smith wrote: > > P.S Thanx Wayne for the advice , I will keep that in mind! > > Hi to all! I know this is probably a subject beaten to death..... > but...how do you price your pieces????? No Algebra please as I was > never good at it! My neighbour is wanting to buy a piece I have hanging > in the window (It's a one square ft.piece with about 25 pieces , tulips > and leaves , with an irradecent border Oh It's copper foiled.......... > Mostly water glass. I'm sure this is difficult and maybee the begining > stages of Becoming A Professional (just excited today)!!!....... > > Thanx in advance > Jennifer the newbie > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass if you charged around $2.00 $2.50 per piece, that should be ok. you can add a little extra if they are hard to cut. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 18:31:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 18:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Did I get "zapped" ???? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 01:36:47 +0000 Message-ID: <199705140130.CAA07609@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Bunginians, On 9th May I posted a serious request that I wanted feed-back from all of you. Not a single reply came forth. Dd I get "zapped" ??? I repeat the request again, just in case.... Elisabeth 'n Toby qoute: Hi all Bunginians, In my e-mail mailbag recently, I received below request. It intrigued me. I responded a couple of time, pointing out that I was actually located in UK and was I the right person to help. The replies I received were very friendly and apologetic. The whole tone of the correspondence made me feel confident in turning to the wonderful resources of my friends at Bungi: Any suggestions in response to the below please, other than sources I can offer in Europe.....?????? Here goes: Hello, I am an editor with the Salvation Army, and I am searching for a picture of stained glass that I can use for a cover of the magazine for which I work. I am looking for a stained glass art that shows beautiful refractions of light, and suggesting a sense of cubism as that light streams forth. We want to superimpose on this glass a side view of a simple creche, indicating that the "King to a manger borne," that is, Christ was born in humble beginnings but has a great destiny. Do you have anything that might apply. I realize this is a strange request, but if you do not have anything, can you recommend a source? thanks Jeff McDonald Managing Editor Salvation Army National Publications USA END OF QUOTE On/Off Group replies and suggestions very welcome. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 18:56:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 18:56:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Did I get "zapped" ???? Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:53:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May13.175328.0> References: <<199705140130.CAA07609@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Hi Bunginians, > On 9th May I posted a serious request that I wanted feed-back from > all of you. Not a single reply came forth. Dd I get "zapped" ??? > I repeat the request again, just in case.... > Elisabeth 'n Toby > > qoute: > Hi all Bunginians, > > In my e-mail mailbag recently, I received below request. It intrigued > me. I responded a couple of time, pointing out that I was actually > located in UK and was I the right person to help. The replies I > received were very friendly and apologetic. The whole tone of the > correspondence made me feel confident in turning to the wonderful > resources of my friends at Bungi: > Any suggestions in response to the below please, other than sources I > can offer in Europe.....?????? > Here goes: > > Hello, I am an editor with the Salvation Army, and I am searching for a > picture of stained glass that I can use for a cover of the magazine for which > I work. I am looking for a stained glass art that shows beautiful refractions > of light, and suggesting a sense of cubism as that light streams forth. We > want to superimpose on this glass a side view of a simple creche, indicating > that the "King to a manger borne," that is, Christ was born in humble > beginnings but has a great destiny. > > Do you have anything that might apply. I realize this is a strange request, > but if you do not have anything, can you recommend a source? > > thanks > > Jeff McDonald > Managing Editor > Salvation Army National Publications USA > > END OF QUOTE > On/Off Group replies and suggestions very welcome. > Elisabeth 'n Toby > ---- > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i personally could'nt think of anything, it sounds a bit artsy/religousy so i could'nt really help. but on the lighter side i finished my project, and am starting to write more pages for my site... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 19:01:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 19:00:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: "Saguaro Sunset" pattern Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:03:10 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May13.21310.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > if you have access to a xerox machine and a small picture of it, you can > make it yourself. Geezzee, Charles, Marilyn is asking where to buy this pattern and you tell her to rip it off with a xerox machine. What's the difference between that and pirating software? Please rethink your position. Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 19:08:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 19:08:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:11:06 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May13.21116.0> References: <<1997May12.194142.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > day.. It would be almost impossible for me to get there that early and leave > my four legged buddy for that many hours. Bubstah, Sorry you can't make it, but I totally understand. I can only go 'cause the "furry tornado" is being left with hubby. I'll try and post a note with info etc. Take care, Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 13 19:49:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 May 1997 19:48:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Pricing Pieces Date: Tue, 13 May 97 22:50:31 -0400 Message-ID: <199705140247.WAA16336@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jennifer the newbie wrote: >> Hi to all! I know this is probably a subject beaten to death..... >> but...how do you price your pieces????? Jennifer, there are two ways to look at it: Your time plus materials. Materials are pretty cut and dried. Then assign yourself an hourly rate that you are willing to accept, multiply that by the number of hours you took to make the piece, add the materials, and that's the price. Another way to check that is, $50 per square foot, plus $1 per piece of glass cut. With me it comes out somewhat the same. A third way would be, a straight fee per square foot. I have been told that ranges from $75 to $100. Or Mike Savad's way of $2, $2.50 per piece. They all work out relatively the same. Good luck, I remember the feeling of selling my first pieces. Elation!! Suzanne Albright >> >> Thanx in advance >> Jennifer the newbie >> >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >if you charged around $2.00 $2.50 per piece, that should be ok. you can >add a little extra if they are hard to cut. > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > >New Pages Added: > > - New Instructional Guides Added!!! > - The Creative Process > - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers > - Picking Out Glass in the Store > > - Plus New Photos > - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory > - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory > - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden > > - But That's Not All!!! > - My Links Page is UP! > - And Awards Page Too >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > suzy dot com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 05:37:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 05:36:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Request for photos!!From Elisabeth!!! Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199705141236.IAA13300@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elisabeth, No you didn't get zapped here.... Sorry I didn't respond to your request...I might have some photos of work that just might work for this gentlemen. If you take a look at our site you might see something there or I have a zillion others. The url is http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/artglass. How and where do the photos need to be sent? I apologize again for missing the request. We are moving into a new studio and well.....I must admit I did overlook it. Just let me know. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 06:18:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 06:18:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: digital.net!agw From: Jennifer Daniels To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Art Glass World Update Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:18:04 -0400 (GMT) Message-ID: <199705141318.JAA01607@ddi.digital.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk --Art Glass World Update-- New Members-- Glass Art Magazine Glass Art features successful artists, full color reproduction of the nation's finest glass works, practical and easy-to-read information on all forms of glass art, business articles for the professional, the latest information in the industry, and much more. Subscribe online before June 30th and save 25%. Visit at http://www.artglassworld.com/mag/glassart. Featured Articles: Restoration- by Arthur Femenella Femenella traces the steps involved in the restoration of windows for St. Paul's Episcopal Church on Nantucket. Cappy Thompson: Narrative, Mythopesis and the Vessel Form - by Shawn Waggoner Using a process for painting stained glass windows developed in the Middle Ages, Seattle artist Thompson creates intelligent "picture poems" which marry mythology, folk styles and self-expression. Warner-Crivellaro Since 1971, Warner-Crivellaro has dedicated itself to offering its customers the most complete selection of stained glass products and supplies. Our extensive inventory and well-stocked showrooms provide a mecca for stained glass hobbyists from all over the United States, Canada, and abroad. Visit by clicking on WC's name from http://www.artglassworld.com/members.html. ================================================================ Jennifer Daniels agw@digital.net Art Glass World http://www.artglassworld.com 4002 W. State Street phone: 813-348-0605 Tampa, FL 33609 USA fax: 813-872-6288 ================================================================ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 06:23:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 06:23:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nortel.ca!rstoker From: "Richard Stoker" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Help: Anyone have B&W streamer glass?? Date: 14 May 1997 09:18 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I need a largish piece of B&W streamer (no fractures) on clear made by Bullseye. I made a piece several years ago using this glass and now the client wants a companion piece....I require approx 4 sq ft. and it is no longer in production according to all my usual sources of supply. Does anyone happen to have a piece out there they would be willing to part with? Regards, Richard Stoker Turtle Bay Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 08:29:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 08:28:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:27:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199705141527.KAA19172@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 07:09 PM 5/13/97 +0000, Albert Lewis wrote: > >> Boy, someones going to splash your work all over the place in a brochure and >> your going to squeeze them for a reproduction right fee? I dunno. How about >> just a credit on the printed material? Seems more neighborly. > >Of course, if the photo's used on the cover of PhotographyToday and >the owner of the window is paid $10,000 by the magazine for the right >to republish the photo of your work, you might feel less neighborly. > >albert Albert, if one of my *pieces* made the the cover of a national magazine I would venture to guess that it would be worth far more then 10 thou in potential commissions. Ofcourse ideally it would be great to have the 10 thou and the value of this type of exposure, which takes me back to my original statement in which I was attemping to say that the exposure and publicity generated by having your work featured in an ad or brochure etc. as long as you received proper credit in print, is more valuable then what? a couple of hundred for the rights. Realistically how much would someone pony up before they said the heck with it and use something else in their layout? I love this hypothetical stuff :-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 10:06:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 10:05:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!MARGEM From: MARGEM@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May14.9519.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just a couple thoughts on copyrights, to clarify a couple of points: Linda Campbell wrote: "Seems to me that once I change the pattern to suite me, it's mine." You would have to change the pattern so much that no one could recognize that it was based on the original. Mike Savad wrote: "I really can't see how they can enforce this, even if you choose a slightly different color of glass, you can use it against them, besides who's gonna know? What are the changes that the person of the book is going to come, then recognize it." Choosing a different color of glass doesn't make a bit of difference. You would still have a copyright violation. As far as enforcing it, sorry Mike, that part's easy. As far as who's gonna know, you wouldn't believe how may calls we get from people all over the world (even Europe) informing us of copyright violations. Actually, there's a very good chance the artist will know. People call me all the time telling me who's copying or selling our patterns or panels made from our patterns. Lots of the calls I get are from retail shops complaining about other retail shops! You know, the easiest way to take care of the whole issue is, if you want to use a design to sell some finished panels, call the artist and ask for permission. Why second guess whether what you want to do is legal or not. Many times the artist will just grant you permission to use the design to make panels to sell at craft shows and small shops. If someone wants to produce and sell on a grander scale, you may have to enter into a licensing agreement where you return a small percentage of the sales back to the artist. I would much rather talk to someone about what they want to do with our designs rather than have to write unpleasant letters to people about copyright violations. So, please, communicate with the artist . . . you may be pleasantly surprised with the answer you get. Marge CKE Publications ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 10:06:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 10:05:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!MARGEM From: MARGEM@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May14.9523.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sorry Albert, Copyright does cover items produced from the patterns. There's no question about that. Marge CKE Publications ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 10:15:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 10:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: tiffany restoration (long) Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:14:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199705141714.MAA24764@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >> There are very few situations when windows should not be removed for >> repair, if the window required rebracing or if the window needed minor >> repairs and is puttyed into stone tracery, would be a couple of examples. > >Okay, Len, I'm with you so far if I understand you correctly: you're >saying that it's a rare thing for windows being restored to *not be >removed, right? I'd agree with that. Yes Albert thats what I was trying to say. I'll write that paragraph off as my *Savadism* of the week ;-) > >> If the windows need restoration (ambiguous term) but does not require a >> complete relead, I recommend using a company that will do the work ON SITE >> as opposed to carting them off somewhere. Many studios are equipped and >> experienced to perform work in this manner. The work will get done faster, >> safer and it gives you opportunity to have the work scrutinized in >progress. > >But here I have to take exception. Apart from the most minor repair >work, windows being restored should be removed, crated, taken to the >studio and worked on flat. To do otherwise may save the client money >in the short run, but the hazards to the windows are greatly >increased. The client will be glad of the money saved today, but the >windows will *not be better off for not having been handled properly. I'm sorry Albert but I have never been able to see a clear advantage to taking windows off site, a relead being the major exception. Why? The number of times the windows have to be handled for one --- taken down --- more likely to be removed from sash (high potential for additional damage) --- crated --- shipped by? common carrier ...yikes! studio vechicle? what if.. god forbid a roll-over on an icey road? --- uncrated at studio by who? *Herman, ace restorer from Germany* I'm sure he'll drop everything and run to the loading dock or *klutz jr. the bookkeeper's kid who started last week? --- then reverse the process and do it again Back to the site... how much additional time will be required? a week at minimum, a month what do you do with the window openings in the mean time? cut and fit plywood? lot of additional hours and expense. Staple up plastic? nice. On site.. --- priliminary leg work completed repair glass matched and on site --- painted work done and on site. --- fully equipped self-contained crew shows up --- work station set up in building --- window taken down, glass replaced, bulges taken out, lead joints resoldered etc. etc. --- window reinstalled How can it get any better then that? There are no proceedures that can be done any better in the studio. There are a lot of roadies out there that know their stuff I'm sorry Albert but this notion that all restoration work has to be done in the studio to me is basically a high end marketing gimmick, and a big money maker, perpatrated by the so called conservators. Reminds me of that old TV commercial where the guy is driving around looking to get a new muffler and he stops at this one place and a gent comes out wearing a white lab coat holding a clipboard and says with a european accent "Yes we can do it but it will take three weeks and you have to leave the car!" Obviously I've slanted the scenarios in my favor ;-) but I do have strong feeling about this issue. If in-studio restoration becomes the norm a lot of windows will be neglected because institutions will be scared off by the costs. My .20 worth :-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 12:23:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 12:22:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nwi.net!dloda From: "Dave & Lynn Loda" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Pansy pattern Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:28:35 -0700 Message-ID: <199705141928.MAA04333@nwinternet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm in need of locating a large pattern incorporating pansies. If anyone has seen a onen in the many floral pattern books out there, I would appreciate if you would drop me a line either on bungi or e-mail. dloda@nwi.net Thanks Dave ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 14:19:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 14:18:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:15:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May14.131553.0> References: <<1997May14.9519.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk MARGEM@aol.com wrote: > > Just a couple thoughts on copyrights, to clarify a couple of points: > > Linda Campbell wrote: > > "Seems to me that once I change the pattern to suite me, it's mine." > > You would have to change the pattern so much that no one could recognize that > it was based on the original. > > Mike Savad wrote: > > "I really can't see how they can enforce this, even if you choose a slightly > different color of glass, you can use it against them, besides who's gonna > know? What are the changes that the person of the book is going to come, then > recognize it." > > Choosing a different color of glass doesn't make a bit of difference. You > would still have a copyright violation. As far as enforcing it, sorry Mike, > that part's easy. > > As far as who's gonna know, you wouldn't believe how may calls we get from > people all over the world (even Europe) informing us of copyright violations. > Actually, there's a very good chance the artist will know. People call me all > the time telling me who's copying or selling our patterns or panels made from > our patterns. Lots of the calls I get are from retail shops complaining about > other retail shops! > > You know, the easiest way to take care of the whole issue is, if you want to > use a design to sell some finished panels, call the artist and ask for > permission. Why second guess whether what you want to do is legal or not. > > Many times the artist will just grant you permission to use the design to > make panels to sell at craft shows and small shops. If someone wants to > produce and sell on a grander scale, you may have to enter into a licensing > agreement where you return a small percentage of the sales back to the > artist. > > I would much rather talk to someone about what they want to do with our > designs rather than have to write unpleasant letters to people about > copyright violations. So, please, communicate with the artist . . . you may > be pleasantly surprised with the answer you get. > > Marge > CKE Publications > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, in either case it really would'nt apply to me too much. since i always try to do my own patterns. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 14:26:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 14:25:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: What you can do with.... Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:24:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May14.13247.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert- What I really want to put on my web site is "Member - International Guild= of Glass Artists". Do I get anything from the Guild after I join up to l= et me know it's official? Or can I add that to my site any time? Thanks. = Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 14:28:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 14:28:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: tvutel.com!jandj From: jandj@tvutel.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Did I get "zapped" ???? Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:29:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1997May14.112932.0> References: <<199705140130.CAA07609@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Hi Bunginians, > On 9th May I posted a serious request that I wanted feed-back from > all of you. Not a single reply came forth. Dd I get "zapped" ??? > I repeat the request again, just in case.... > Elisabeth 'n Toby > > qoute: > Hi all Bunginians, > > In my e-mail mailbag recently, I received below request. It intrigued > me. I responded a couple of time, pointing out that I was actually > located in UK and was I the right person to help. The replies I > received were very friendly and apologetic. The whole tone of the > correspondence made me feel confident in turning to the wonderful > resources of my friends at Bungi: > Any suggestions in response to the below please, other than sources I > can offer in Europe.....?????? > Here goes: > > Hello, I am an editor with the Salvation Army, and I am searching for a > picture of stained glass that I can use for a cover of the magazine for which > I work. I am looking for a stained glass art that shows beautiful refractions > of light, and suggesting a sense of cubism as that light streams forth. We > want to superimpose on this glass a side view of a simple creche, indicating > that the "King to a manger borne," that is, Christ was born in humble > beginnings but has a great destiny. > > Do you have anything that might apply. I realize this is a strange request, > but if you do not have anything, can you recommend a source? > > thanks > > Jeff McDonald > Managing Editor > Salvation Army National Publications USA > > END OF QUOTE > On/Off Group replies and suggestions very welcome. > Elisabeth 'n Toby > ---- > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I tried to send this to you yesterday but could'nt send i'll try again. I think that the best photos would be closeups (under a microscope) of a gem stone that will give the best refraction of light. I am a prcision gem cutter and have seen what that person is talking about. Photos can be obtained through various gem publications like Keystone and the lapidary Journal. Also the smithsonium in DC has had some real great ones for superimposing. hope this helps and gets through Jackie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 15:09:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 15:08:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Subject: Re: What you can do with.... Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:15:59 +0000 Message-ID: <199705142208.SAA13871@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > What I really want to put on my web site is "Member - International > Guild of Glass Artists". Absolutely all right. In fact, we'll tell you where to get a logo online and how to link it to your site. Do you have a web address yet? You know you get a free page as a member, don't you? > Do I get anything from the Guild after I join up to l et > me know it's official? Or can I add that to my site any time? Yes, there's a membership kit being packed for you right now. It includes logos for letterhead, checks, etc. Albert Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 15:09:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 15:08:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: tiffany restoration (long) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:15:59 +0000 Message-ID: <199705142208.SAA13912@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I'm sorry Albert but I have never been able to see a clear advantage to > taking windows off site, a relead being the major exception. I'll try to keep my to a mere 1c worth, continuing your muffler-replacement analogy: I'd rather have my car fixed in the garage where they have the parts and the equipment to do the job right, than have them come out and fix it in my driveway. I don't think the mechanics are running a scam on me by requiring that my car be left in their shop any more than serious restoration studios are running one for doing the job right. Of course, you and I can disagree about any of this, because this is such a great country. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 15:09:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 15:09:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:15:59 +0000 Message-ID: <199705142208.SAA13931@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Copyright does cover items produced from the patterns. There's no question > about that. There's no doubt about the fact that the pattern itself is copyrighted and I wouldn't say anything else. But are you saying that nobody can sell a piece of work created with a copyrighted pattern? Do you know of any instances in which that's been enforced? Personally, I'd be very surprised to hear that it could be. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 15:36:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 15:35:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'Dave & Lynn Loda'" , bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Pansy pattern Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:22:41 -0100 Message-ID: <1997May14.172241.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk There is a nice pansy pattern in The Tiffany Mosiac Pattern Book.. I = believe it might be the first book.. But it is three pansies with stems = and leaves.. Good luck, Gloria ---------- From: Dave & Lynn Loda[SMTP:dloda@nwi.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 6:29 PM To: bungi Subject: Pansy pattern I'm in need of locating a large pattern incorporating pansies. If = anyone has seen a onen in the many floral pattern books out there, I would appreciate if you would drop me a line either on bungi or e-mail.=20 dloda@nwi.net Thanks Dave=20 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 15:38:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 15:37:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:31:45 -0100 Message-ID: <1997May14.173145.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Also, if any new techniques are offered could you pass along.. = Appreciated the spray paint on the back of cathedral glass for stepping = stones from the last trip.. Thanks Gloria ---------- From: Hilary A. Bobker[SMTP:hilary@voicenet.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 1997 8:11 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians > day.. It would be almost impossible for me to get there that early and = leave > my four legged buddy for that many hours. Bubstah, Sorry you can't make it, but I totally understand. I can only go 'cause the "furry tornado" is being left with hubby. I'll try and post a note with info etc. Take care, Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 16:59:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 16:59:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3 From: Garry McKenna To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Swan pattern Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:57:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970514235754.0068f734@mail.kwic.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 11:24 PM 13/5/97 -0700, you wrote: >Linda, > > My address is 19 Lynn Drive, Jeffersonville, PA 19403. BTW, don't you >want me to reimburse you for the pattern? If so, how much? And thanks >very much! Meigan Cooper > > Meigan Nah! Not to worry. I'm glad to be able to do something for a fellow glass artist! It will be in the mail tomorrow. Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 17:14:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 17:13:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: Delphi Stained Glass To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199705150006.UAA10401@vixb.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert, >There's no doubt about the fact that the pattern itself is >copyrighted and I wouldn't say anything else. But are you saying that >nobody can sell a piece of work created with a copyrighted pattern? >Do you know of any instances in which that's been enforced? >Personally, I'd be very surprised to hear that it could be. We've heard several horror stories from customers who have tried to sell pieces made from the book "Mickey and Friends" at craft shows. The finished pieces are seized and worse. Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 17:26:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 17:25:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:32:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199705150025.UAA01597@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >Do you know of any instances in which that's been enforced? > >Personally, I'd be very surprised to hear that it could be. > > We've heard several horror stories from customers who have tried to sell > pieces made from the book "Mickey and Friends" at craft shows. The finished > pieces are seized and worse. Well, I meant legally, of course, through court enforcement, not 800-pound gorillas working for Michael Eisner. Handling it that way, they don't have to turn to the courts and thus force the craftsperson to sue *them instead. I'll have to give the copyright specialist I know a call to see what he says about this. What does "and worse" mean? Thugs with sledgehammers? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 17:54:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 17:53:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Reading materials? Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:53:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May14.16539.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All- I'm just getting my "suggested reading" list together for my class, and rather than just my old standards, I thought I'd ask you all to each send= me your favorite stained glass book title, your favorite glass magazine, and in ten words or less why they're your favorites. It's a college clas= s, but a short one so I'll have hobbyists as well as art students - I'd like= to provide some good reading material for everyone, and something that wi= ll be beneficial to each in the long run. Thanks for the help! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 18:21:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 18:21:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs From: SusieHUs@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 21:20:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May14.172054.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Gloria, Just curious... did you try that spray paint idea? I've been considering it myself. What kind of paint did you use? Any pointers? Thanks, Susie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 19:37:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 19:36:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Spray paint Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:33:45 EDT Message-ID: <1997May15.23345.0> References: <<1997May14.172054.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I tried the spray paint. I didn't have any bumper paint (keep meaning to get some), but I had some metallic silver enamel and used it on a red cathedral in a stone. It worked great. Jerri On Wed, 14 May 1997 21:20:54 -0400 (EDT) SusieHUs@aol.com writes: >Gloria, > >Just curious... did you try that spray paint idea? I've been >considering it >myself. What kind of paint did you use? Any pointers? > >Thanks, >Susie >---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 19:41:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 19:41:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997May14.12366.0> References: <<1997May14.172054.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Susie: I am not Gloria but I did try the spray paint idea and love it. Found out that the bumper paint is good for the cool colors and a gold tone paint is good for the warm colors. My students loved it. Peggy On Wed, 14 May 1997 SusieHUs@aol.com wrote: > Gloria, > > Just curious... did you try that spray paint idea? I've been considering it > myself. What kind of paint did you use? Any pointers? > > Thanks, > Susie > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 19:42:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 19:41:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 21:43:20 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May14.214320.0> References: <<1997May14.173145.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > Also, if any new techniques are offered could you pass along.. = > Appreciated the spray paint on the back of cathedral glass for stepping = > stones from the last trip.. Hi, Gloria and everybody who's asked... I will try to post a note about what Angelo shows us. This is assuming that I understand it enough to try and describe it! Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 20:03:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 20:02:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Attn Philly Area Bungians Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:59:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May14.18595.0> References: <<1997May14.214320.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Great, look forward to your post, Philly is too far for me to go from Florida- :-) ;) Lee Boe > > Hi, Gloria and everybody who's asked... > > I will try to post a note about what Angelo shows us. This is assuming > that I understand it enough to try and describe it! > > Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 20:28:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 20:27:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 23:32:46 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970514233246.006b5eac@pop.bridge.net> References: <<1997May14.9519.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In response to Mike Savad, Marge of CKE Publications wrote: >>As far as enforcing it, sorry Mike, that part's easy.<< Okay, it's easy to enforce, but how often do you really enforce (sue) someone? I'd be interested to know how many times you follow up those leads and send a letter asking (demanding) they stop selling products made from your patterns without permission. How often have you sued someone? I'd guess the cost of suing for copyright infringement is not worth the cost of filing the suit. Just curious. M.-J. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 20:50:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 20:50:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!StnGlsTres From: StnGlsTres@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Reading materials? Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 23:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May14.194948.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-05-14 22:08:42 EDT, Dani wrote: << I'm just getting my "suggested reading" list together for my class >> Umm.....don't have a favorite book I can think of, don't have many stained glass books yet besides pattern books......but my favorite magazine is Stained Glass News because I always get a lot of information from it (now if they'd ONLY do subscriptions....and come out once a month.....or every two weeks......heehee). (sorry, Albert, I just joined IGGA so haven't read Common Ground Glass enough yet to say much about it.....) Once you get your list together, Dani, I'd love to get a copy of it....and I'm sure others would as well, perhaps you could post it here? Steph ~ Stephanie Hansen Stained Glass Treasures http://members.aol.com/StnGlsTres ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 20:57:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 20:56:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!SUGR5 From: SUGR5@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Reading materials? Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 23:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May14.195616.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>>> I thought I'd ask you all to each send= me your favorite stained glass book title, your favorite glass magazine, and in ten words or less why they're your favorites. anyone sending info to Dani, I would like a copy of your list too> Thanks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 21:48:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 21:48:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: concentric.net!shmfcoop From: "M. Cooper" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Swan pattern Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:50:33 -0700 Message-ID: <1997May14.175033.0> References: <<1.5.4.32.19970514235754.0068f734@mail.kwic.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda, That's very generous of you - thanks again! I'm really looking forward to completing this project, after all, my grandmother's in good health, but she is 87! Thank you! Meigan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 14 22:54:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 May 1997 22:53:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs From: SusieHUs@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Reading materials? Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 01:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May14.215334.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dani, I like Stained Glass Secrets because it's concise, covers a lot, has photos to help see what's going on and is clear enough for a beginner like me! I have several pattern books that I like but I don't think that that's what you're looking for, right? Susie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 03:57:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 03:57:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bcpl.lib.md.us!panthony From: "last name: Anthony" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Subject: Re: Spray paint mosaic glass Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:57:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May15.2578.0> References: <<1997May14.172054.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have used WHITE spray paint (cheapo hardware store brand) on blue cathedral and it worked beautifully. Tried putting mirror behind it to guage effect of chrome paint -- it was too "sharp" (?) visually for what I was doing, but an interesting effect to try another day. --SB ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 05:06:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 05:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Reading materials? Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 08:05:28 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970515080526.006ebf40@mail.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 08:53 PM 5/14/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi All- > >I'm just getting my "suggested reading" list together for my class, and >rather than just my old standards, I thought I'd ask you all to each send= > >me your favorite stained glass book title, your favorite glass magazine, >and in ten words or less why they're your favorites. My favorite book is Decorative Doorways Stained Glass Pattern Book by Carolyn Relei. This book is my favorite because quite simply I've used more patterns from that book than any other single book. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 05:27:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 05:26:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Thu, 15 May 97 08:24:26 EDT Message-ID: <970515.082616.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<199705150006.UAA10401@vixb.voyager.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Re "mickey and Friends"...I assume that is Mickey Mouse. There you are also running up against Disney trademarks, and Disney is zealous (for good reason, too) in protecting their property and its value. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 06:39:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 06:38:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ngai.com!pjnjril From: Paula Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 08:11:00 -0500 Message-ID: <199705151340.IAA29218@email6.starnetinc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Scott wrote: >for you is because it was made from a nice design. Therefore, we also >expect to start receiving a small part of the income, which involves a small >royalty fee. I'm curious ;), how much would be the royalty fee (in percentage) that you would use? I've always wondered just how to do this. Thanks in advance. Paula glasdawg@ngai.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Glass Dog Studio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 07:02:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 07:01:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!JesJason From: JesJason@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: 5/15/97 Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May15.6136.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk McFrenzy, Can you tell me how to cut a concave 90 degree angle on one piece of glass? I am working on a mosaic brick and it would be much better looking and easier if I could make the corner one piece of glass instead of two. Thanks jesse ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 07:26:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 07:25:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: gr.cns.net!pristine From: mcFrenzy To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: 5/15/97 Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:17:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May15.61726.0> References: <<1997May15.6136.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk For the tightest possible inside corner try drilling a hole at the next to the point where two lines meet. then score and break the glass up to the hole. Note that in many cases the lead is manipulated to look like a 90 degree angle whereas the glass is actually cut to a tight radius. This is a risky practice. It produces a seemingly weak spot. Handle with care. JesJason@aol.com wrote: > > McFrenzy, > > Can you tell me how to cut a concave 90 degree angle on one piece of glass? I > am working on a mosaic brick and it would be much better looking and easier > if I could make the corner one piece of glass instead of two. > > Thanks > > jesse > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 07:32:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 07:31:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: 5/15/97 Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:29:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May15.6290.0> References: <<1997May15.6136.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk JesJason@aol.com wrote: > > McFrenzy, > > Can you tell me how to cut a concave 90 degree angle on one piece of glass? I > am working on a mosaic brick and it would be much better looking and easier > if I could make the corner one piece of glass instead of two. > > Thanks > > jesse > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass unless you use a bandsaw, you wont be able to do that. you may be allowed to use the one in your stained glass store, if they let you. i did it once with out a saw, alot of tapping was involved and there was still a hairline crack in the corner. another possible method would be to make a cut as deep as possible. then grind the rest with a small diameter bit. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 08:42:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 08:41:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!MARGEM From: MARGEM@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:41:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May15.74148.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk M.-J. writes: "How often do you really enforce (sue) someone? . . . how many times you follow up those leads and send a letter asking (demanding) they stop selling products made from your patterns without permission?" I don't want to leave the impression that my copyright attorney is on speed-dial No. 1 and I sit here just waiting to hammer someone with a lawsuit. I believe we have only gone beyond the letter asking people to stop twice. Certainly, lawsuits are very expensive and you must decide whether the infringement is worth pursuing. Additionally, I am not trying to stop every mom and pop basement studio from selling suncatchers at craft fairs. I also realize people use our designs for commission pieces all the time . . . that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when we find people mass-producing product from our designs. Then, I would much rather enter into a licensing agreement than sue. Marge CKE ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 08:43:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 08:41:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!MARGEM From: MARGEM@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May15.74134.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert asks: "Are you saying that nobody can sell a piece of work created with a copyrighted pattern? . . . Do You know of any instances in which that's been enforced? Yes. If you want to sell a piece of work created with a copyrighted pattern, legally you must have permission from the copyright owner. Has it been enforced? Yes, many times. One instance was when we discovered someone mass-producing pieces from one of our designs and selling them through a mail order catalog. We contacted our copyright attorney and nipped that one right in the bud. (By the way, if that person had requested permission to use the pattern, we would have granted permission subject to a small royalty being returned to the artist for every piece sold.) Marge CKE Pubs ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 10:20:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 10:19:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: tiffany restoration (long) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:18:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199705151718.MAA19761@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 06:15 PM 5/14/97 +0000, Albert Lewis wrote: > >> I'm sorry Albert but I have never been able to see a clear advantage to >> taking windows off site, a relead being the major exception. > >I'll try to keep my to a mere 1c worth, continuing your >muffler-replacement analogy: I'd rather have my car fixed in the >garage where they have the parts and the equipment to do the job >right, than have them come out and fix it in my driveway. Albert, bungi buddy extraordinaire and fellow Dumpster Club charter member :-) since you have decided not to specifically address any of the points I raised and since these restoration threads generate about as much interest as watching submarine races, I'll close my end out by taking the muffler replacement analogy and applying my point of view by saying why not in the driveway? pro installer shows up with OEM muffler, pipes and clamps, proper jacks, cutting torch, portable compressor, misc tools installs muffler, on his way. Beats having a tow truck show up and winch your car up on a flat bed and drive off to be seen again who knows when. > >I don't think the mechanics are running a scam on me by requiring >that my car be left in their shop any more than serious restoration >studios are running one for doing the job right. Of course, you and I >can disagree about any of this, because this is such a great country. > >Albert Never said it was a scam, I said it was a marketing gimmick, high end conservators do a fabulous job and have introduced methods that have elevated the industry standard, all the better for everyone. They have also shot down the work of many fine artisans by vigorously implying that if you repair a window and it doesn't last 300 years your doing the job wrong. These folks know that they are not going to get that *Vatican Gig* but they go out and do first rate work often at small churches with very limited resources and the windows will last a mere 75 years..is that the wrong way? Please do not take offense Albert but it should be clear for the record that you do have a vested interest in supporting the opposing view. I have nothing to gain and I'm just offering information that is correct to the best of my knowledge based on my own experience. Your friend, Len >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 10:41:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 10:40:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Help: Anyone have B&W streamer glass?? Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:39:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199705151739.MAA20488@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 09:18 AM 5/14/97 EDT, Richard Stoker wrote: >I need a largish piece of B&W streamer (no fractures) on clear made by >Bullseye. I made a piece several years ago using this glass and now the >client wants a companion piece....I require approx 4 sq ft. and it is no >longer in production according to all my usual sources of supply. Does >anyone happen to have a piece out there they would be willing to part >with? Sorry I can't help with the glass Richard, but I think black streamers on clear might still be in production, maybe, as I believe its fusable, you can pull some white rod and fuse it there by making up your own?..... Dumb idea? Just a thought. Len >Regards, >Richard Stoker >Turtle Bay Studios >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 10:45:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 10:44:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Reading Materials? Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 13:44:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May15.9445.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I will be glad to post a list of stained glass books and magazines when I= get a good list together. Haven't gotten very many faves, so start sendin'! (Anything from beginner to pro). Thanks! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 11:05:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 11:04:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:00:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May15.10051.0> References: <<1997May15.74148.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Marge, I, and I'm sure many others on the list, really appreciate yours and Scott's explanation on small quantities of work produced with 'book patterns'. Several times I have not done a piece that I really liked, which I would have sold at an Art Show, because I did not want to infringe on a copyright. (I'm talking 3-6 pieces of one pattern, done in different colors, for example). I will be happy now, to drop the Book authors or publishers a line, expressing interest, and asking permission to do a few pieces of one of their patterns. CKE is one of the largest publishers of good pattern books I know of, and with this reassurance will be much more inclined to buy more pattern books for my Art and Craft fair work. Since I have had to drop off to 6-10 shows a year, (health reasons) it will be a time saver to include in my small inventory. Thank You again, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > I don't want to leave the impression that my copyright attorney is on > speed-dial No. 1 and I sit here just waiting to hammer someone with a > lawsuit. I believe we have only gone beyond the letter asking people to stop > twice. Certainly, lawsuits are very expensive and you must decide whether the > infringement is worth pursuing. > > Additionally, I am not trying to stop every mom and pop basement studio from > selling suncatchers at craft fairs. I also realize people use our designs for > commission pieces all the time . . . that doesn't bother me. What bothers me > is when we find people mass-producing product from our designs. Then, I would > much rather enter into a licensing agreement than sue. > > Marge > CKE ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 11:50:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 11:49:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May15.105434.0> References: <<199705142208.SAA13931@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > Copyright does cover items produced from the patterns. There's no question > > about that. If this is actually the case, then no one but the creator of the design can sell the piece without the actual written permission of the creator of the design. That would make a lot of stained glass pieces throw aways because they could not be resold. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 11:56:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 11:55:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:00:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May15.11043.0> References: <<199705150025.UAA01597@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > We've heard several horror stories from customers who have tried to sell > pieces made from the book "Mickey and Friends" at craft shows. The finished > pieces are seized and worse. There is a difference between copyright and trademark infractions. The latter is much more serious to these people. All of the characters' likenesses are trademarked by Disney (as well as copyrighted). If you did an original design (aand I mean original sketch of Mickey, no tracing or looking at another picture, etc.) you would get the same treatment. Do not mess with a trademark. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 12:38:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 12:36:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nwi.net!dloda From: "Dave & Lynn Loda" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Pansy pattern Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:42:10 -0700 Message-ID: <199705151942.MAA07548@nwinternet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Gloria; Thanks for responding to my request. I was aware of the Tiffany Gardens book & should have posted that. Question fo you, you sent my two posts, the first I received came over fine without = signs. The second as you can see has the == Any idea what causes this. Thanks again Dave & Lynn Art Glass of Wenatchee ---------- > From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> > To: 'Dave & Lynn Loda' ; bungi > Subject: RE: Pansy pattern > Date: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 12:22 PM > > > > There is a nice pansy pattern in The Tiffany Mosiac Pattern Book.. I = > believe it might be the first book.. But it is three pansies with stems = > and leaves.. > > Good luck, > Gloria > > ---------- > From: Dave & Lynn Loda[SMTP:dloda@nwi.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 6:29 PM > To: bungi > Subject: Pansy pattern > > I'm in need of locating a large pattern incorporating pansies. If = > anyone > has seen a onen in the many floral pattern books out there, I would > appreciate if you would drop me a line either on bungi or e-mail.=20 > dloda@nwi.net > > Thanks > > Dave=20 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 12:51:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 12:50:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: (Fwd) Re: Quick copyright question Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:57:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199705151950.PAA09958@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Here's what my copyright attorney had to say about the question before us ... which I pass along for you to enjoy while I eat crow. He said: "There mght be some chance there is protection to the copyright owner under the "derivative works" doctrine. But overall, copyright only protectes the expression of the idea in one meadium of expression. Thus while a glass creation using a copyrighted pattern might be an "infringement" (thus opening the issue to statutory damages, etc.), it's rather disingenuous to infer someone can infringe so long a they pay a royalty and ask permission." Munch, munch. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 13:34:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 13:33:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Reading materials? Date: Thu, 15 May 97 10:02:01 PDT Message-ID: <1997May15.1721.0> References: <<1997May14.194948.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani, I would also like a copy of your reading list, and would second the suggestion that you post it to the group. Would definitely appreciate it! Dawn > Once you get your list together, Dani, I'd love to get a copy of it....and > I'm sure others would as well, perhaps you could post it here? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 13:53:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 13:51:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Quick copyright question Date: Thu, 15 May 97 16:54:05 -0400 Message-ID: <199705152051.QAA29074@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >"There mght be some chance there is protection to the copyright owner >under the "derivative works" doctrine. But overall, copyright only >protectes the expression of the idea in one meadium of expression. >Thus while a glass creation using a copyrighted pattern might be an >"infringement" (thus opening the issue to statutory damages, etc.), >it's rather disingenuous to infer someone can infringe so long a they >pay a royalty and ask permission." Hey Albert, This sounds like "lawyerese" to me. Disingenuous? Where does that leave me? *s* suzy dot com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 14:08:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:08:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1 From: StndGlass1@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May15.13817.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk << If this is actually the case, then no one but the creator of the design can sell the piece without the actual written permission of the creator of the design. That would make a lot of stained glass pieces throw aways because they could not be resold. >> They are not throw aways. The point is that they can be resold! No one is saying that you can never take a pattern from a book, make it and sell it. All that is being said, and it is the law, is that you must ask first. I'm not too sure what all of the confusion is about. It seems only fair to me. If you designed a pattern, would you not want someone to ask before they duplicated it and sold it? Jenna Meredith Meredith Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 15:48:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 15:48:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!ScottSGN From: ScottSGN@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:47:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May15.144755.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Paula wrote: >I'm curious ;), how much would be the royalty fee (in percentage) that you >would use? I've always wondered just how to do this. Thanks in advance. Since this was a response to something I posted, I'll respond. But keep in mind I'm only speaking for SGN Publishing. Each publisher probably has a different way of figuring royalty payments. As I mentioned previously, if you're selling a few projects from this book and a few from that book at craft fairs or consignment shops, that's fine with us. We're glad that you like our patterns and have found places to sell them. However, if you're selling one particular project over and over, we assume that a *small* part of the reason for this is because it was made from an attractive design. Therefore, we expect to be able to compensate the designer by receiving a *small* royalty fee. We don't expect a royalty until someone has sold 10 or more projects made from the same pattern. And what's the royalty percentage? Well, that can vary a little depending on the situation. For example, you may be selling wholesale and have to keep your selling price as low as possible so the retailer you sell to can mark it up and make money, too. In this case, the royalty would probably be lower than if you were selling to the consumer at full "retail." Due to these (and other) variables, there isn't a single flat percentage that we use. (This is why we ask you to contact us!) But, regardless of the situation, the royalty never exceeds 10% of your selling price. Hope this helps, Scott SGN Publishing ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 16:06:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: iglou.com!glashack From: Chris Orowitz To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:04:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May15.15439.0> References: <<1997May15.74148.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: The Glass Shack Precedence: bulk MARGEM@aol.com wrote: > > Additionally, I am not trying to stop every mom and pop basement studio from > selling suncatchers at craft fairs. I also realize people use our designs for > commission pieces all the time . . . that doesn't bother me. What bothers me > is when we find people mass-producing product from our designs. Then, I would > much rather enter into a licensing agreement than sue. Hi All, I have been a lurker for quite a while on this list and overall have found it to be very enjoyable. This year I have finally decided to do some craft fairs and consignments. With all the talk about copyrights over the course of time I was a bit afraid to make designs out of the pattern books for fear of being sued. I went through the books I had and picked out my favorites and sat down and wrote some letters for permission. With the exception of one person that I wrote to all were extremely nice and gave me permission to use their patterns. Marge was one the exceptionally nice people to communicate with. Overall, I was surprised at the number of pieces they allowed to be made. It really isn't hard all it takes is a little time, plus I think it is only fair. I know I would not want my patterns duplicated without giving my permission. I too would be interested to know the average percentage being charged for royalties. I seriously doubt I'd ever get that big to have to worry about it, but you never know. Chris Orowitz glashack@iglou.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 17:31:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 17:31:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May15.163612.0> References: <<1997May15.13817.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 15 May 1997 StndGlass1@aol.com wrote: > They are not throw aways. The point is that they can be resold! No one is > saying that you can never take a pattern from a book, make it and sell it. > All that is being said, and it is the law, is that you must ask first. > > I'm not too sure what all of the confusion is about. It seems only fair to > me. If you designed a pattern, would you not want someone to ask before they > duplicated it and sold it? Jenna, We have not been talking about duping and selling the pattern. We are now discussing whether or not a finished piece, based on a design needs to have a royalty paid because it was done from some one's pattern. There are some who are saying that if YOU (Jenna) creates and publishes a pattern, others that complete a piece from that pattern and sell the finished piece have to pay you a royalty. My point was, if I create a piece from your pattern and sell it (with your permission) to a customer, then if that customer wants to sell it some years later, they must also get your permission. If you don't give it, they're screwed. And a bigger problem, what if they sell it as part of a piece of furniture or their house, do you still need your permission? I totally agree that copyrights have to be protected. If you publish a pattern and sell it, when I buy the pattern, whether in a book or individually, I assume that I have your permission to make that piece and do with it as I please. If I make more than one, then again I should probably pay you some more money (since I used the pattern again). Whoa! These things make me think too much. When that happens, it makes my head hurt. ;-} ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 17:33:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 17:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:40:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199705160033.UAA28324@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I'm not too sure what all of the confusion is about. It seems only fair to > me. If you designed a pattern, would you not want someone to ask before they > duplicated it and sold it? The confusion for me, Jenna, arose from my understanding that the pattern's copyright prevents anyone else from reprinting the *pattern and reselling it as a pattern, but it was being said that not only the pattern's protected, any item produced with the pattern is protected, too! I didn't know that. If someone publishes a pattern in a pattern book, the buyer buys it with the understanding that the patterns will be used to produce items, some of them possibly for resale. I think it's understandable that the buyer of the book can't reproduce the *book or any single patterns for resale (nor even copy a single page and *give it to anyone else) without violating the copyright. I didn't know (and have had my understanding corrected) that the work product itself is also protected by the copyright. I think the publishers and designers of patterns who've spoken up here have made some good points, are justifiably concerned about huge numbers of pieces being made from what was (obviously) a good design without some sort of remuneration coming back to them, as well. "Good attitude" abounds in those comments, understanding of the situation faced by the makers of the products and certainly no hostile tactics (a la Disney) have been suggested. It seems to me, though (and correct me if I'm wrong) that this all has yet to be tested. In the Art World, too, painters (for instance) have also tried to "participate" in resales of their work. I think it was Jackson Pollack who sold a painting for (let's say) $10,000 in the 60s, but who wanted a piece of the action when it sold (let's say) for $1,000,000 in the 90s. I think the current owner of the painting, as well as the new buyer, told him to "go fish." (On second thought, it wasn't Jackson Pollack, but someone else just as well known). Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 17:34:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 17:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Quick copyright question Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:40:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199705160033.UAA28328@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > This sounds like "lawyerese" to me. Disingenuous? Where does that leave > me? Well, copyright is legalese, so it's only natural that comments on legal stuff sound legalistic. Where does it leave you? You can buy patterns and use them to create work, but neither the work created with a copyrighted pattern nor the pattern itself "belongs" to you in the sense that you own the pattern in print or in glass. But you can sell the work created with the pattern or give it away, even though you can't sell the paper pattern or give *that away. That is, you can sell the work, as long as you don't make more than (vague number) of them. If you make more than (vague number) of them, you have to ask permission, which will (apparently) be given. If you want to make (huge number) of them, you'll get permission to do so at a price that the publisher deems fair and to which you will agree because it *is fair. What's happening is that the publishers and designers of the patterns are giving you tacit (that is, "unspoken") permission to create and sell (vague number) finished pieces based on their patterns, as long as you will ask them if you make more than (vague number) or as long as you will pay them a royalty if you want to make (huge number) of them. If my tongue seems to be shoved ever so slightly into my cheek, it is, 'tis. But I think the facts of the matter are right. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 17:37:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 17:36:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: What to do with the patterns Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:35:17 -0700 Message-ID: <199705160035.RAA19536@mars.ark.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Greetings to all: ..Sounds like a bunch of lawyers about to get rich again. They will sue you for anything including 'your dog stepped on my side of the street!' Of course, they don't care, they get paid win or lose. Ask one if he/she will take the case but only get paid if they win-- and see what the answer is!! ..It would seem to me that the person who designed the pattern in the first place, gave up their right to copyright when they in fact 'published' the pattern and in fact--'sold that pattern and book to you'. If they wished to keep it, they should not have sold it, published it or sold it! I would suggest you have more rights to that "Pattern" if you can show that it was in fact offered for sale and you 'legally' purchased it. ..The charge you make on selling of the pattern is in fact false. You are selling the artwork, glass and labour for the project---not the pattern! The "Pattern" is the only thing under copyright--not the artwork around it. Just don't reproduce and sell the "Pattern"!! ..Go ahead and sell the darn thing!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 19:38:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 19:36:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: netins.net!sae From: Scott Evans To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Cutting by hand? Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:36:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199705160236.VAA30092@insosf1.netins.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm in the process of designing a stained-glass piece that has some edges that would be impossible to grind, due to some internal points on the pieces. Is there a recommended way of cutting pieces like this? Obviously a glass band saw would be ideal, but since I currently lack the resources to purchase one of these, is there a way of sawing a piece like this by hand (say with a hacksaw or a keyhole saw and a special blade?? Thanks! Scott ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 20:10:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 20:10:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Quick copyright question Date: Thu, 15 May 97 23:13:00 -0400 Message-ID: <199705160310.XAA12479@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: >What's happening is that the publishers and designers of the patterns >are giving you tacit (that is, "unspoken") permission to create and >sell (vague number) finished pieces based on their patterns, as >long as you will ask them if you make more than (vague number) or >as long as you will pay them a royalty if you want to make (huge >number) of them. > >If my tongue seems to be shoved ever so slightly into my cheek, it >is, 'tis. But I think the facts of the matter are right. Thank you Albert, for clarifying the copyright matter in layman's terms. Though your tongue was in your cheek, to me it's no longer Greek! *s* Suzanne Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 20:29:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 20:28:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting by hand? Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:24:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May15.192454.0> References: <<199705160236.VAA30092@insosf1.netins.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi , You might try a 'Jeweler's Saw" with a very fine blade. A basic saw and packet of blades is not teribly expensive, and might do the job. You would drip oil or water on the piece you are cutting. Hope the pieces are very small, as this is a slow process. The silver or gold sheets or castings this is usually used for are quite small in comparason to glass. This is just speculation, as I have not tried it. If no one else has a better idea, I'll try this myself and give you a report on how (or if) it worked. I have the saw and blades, and plenty of scrap glass to try. Give me an idea of what kind of glass (water glass, cathedral, etc) and will try it for you. Better idea, if you are close to a retail store that you could use a 'demo' band saw or ring saw. A jewelers saw is a type of keyhole saw, and the blades are about 6 inches long. You'll bust lots of blades while learning the process, they are usually sold by the 'pack' of about a dozen. A 'bench pin' to steady the work is easy to rig. Be happy to explain further if you want. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Scott Evans wrote: > > I'm in the process of designing a stained-glass piece that has some edges > that would be impossible to grind, due to some internal points on the > pieces. Is there a recommended way of cutting pieces like this? Obviously > a glass band saw would be ideal, but since I currently lack the resources to > purchase one of these, is there a way of sawing a piece like this by hand > (say with a hacksaw or a keyhole saw and a special blade?? > > Thanks! > Scott ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 20:43:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 20:43:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: arn.net!loveta From: Loveta Elmore To: "'glass@BUNGI.COM'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC6181.09249880" Subject: RE: Dani and Michael / class room instruction and reading materials Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 22:04:10 -0500 Message-ID: <1997May15.17410.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6181.09249880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After teaching at the local university for years, the most valuable = reading material was mine. After every class I would spend 15 minutes = writing notes. I would list everything I thought was successful, all = the frustrations the students seemed to be having with that particular = class and what I could do or have my Instructors do to help. =20 This was the most valuable time I spent. Most instruction books a = geared toward helping the beginner at home, which is great. But = teaching in the classroom is very different and your students expect a = great deal more. I am in the process of writing a book for teaching = in the classroom. =20 Would love any feed back. Was this helpful? 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Thu, 15 May 1997 20:43:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: arn.net!loveta From: Loveta Elmore To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC6181.0D122660" Subject: RE: copy right patterns and what can happen Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 22:38:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1997May15.173842.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6181.0D122660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Seems to be so much interest and confusion in designs and copy rights.=20 Just want to share a story. Many years ago, back in the days before I = went professional, I was involved in many craft shows. At that time = there was a well known artist in my area named Betsy Clark, who did = really sentimental drawings of children, maybe adults also, I don't = remember. Anyway, a giant craft show is going on, and several of my = friends have done things like purses, plaques, etc with Betsy Clark = designs on them. On the second day these lawyers from New York show up and approach all = the people who have Betsy Clark designs on their crafts and tell them = they are in violation of copy right laws. Two of my friends were = married to lawyers. The next day after phone calls going on most of the = night, everyone with copies of Betsy Clark designs pulled out after = realizing what could happen. People don't realize how liable they are if they a caught. Copy right = laws were written for a reason. The biggest confusion seems to be understanding that an original design = that is copy righted does have rights. And it can be costly if violated. 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=_NextPart_000_01BC6181.0D122660-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 21:07:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 21:06:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: arn.net!loveta From: Loveta Elmore To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC6184.35249AE0" Subject: RE: Using copy right patterns/ following Scott SGN advice. Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:03:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1997May15.18315.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6184.35249AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I didn't mention in my previous message, I have used copy righted = designs in my business. I always called and discussed what my plans = were, and many times I was not charged anything, but the important thing = was : I did it the right way. That is all the artist asks. =20 Loveta ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6184.35249AE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih8EAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQA7AAAAUkU6IFVzaW5nIGNvcHkgcmlnaHQg cGF0dGVybnMvIGZvbGxvd2luZyBTY290dCBTR04gYWR2aWNlLgCwFAEFgAMADgAAAM0HBQAPABcA AwAPAAQAFQEBIIADAA4AAADNBwUADwAWADgAAwAEAD0BAQmAAQAhAAAANTRGNTRFNDE2Q0NERDAx MTg3QTg0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA4gYBA5AGAEQJAAAiAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAQAAAAMAJgAAAAAA CwApAAEAAAADAC4AAAAAAAIBMQABAAAA7QAAAFBDREZFQjA5AAEAAgBNAAAAAAAAADihuxAF5RAa obsIACsqVsIAAE1TUFNULkRMTAAAAAAATklUQfm/uAEAqgA32W4AAABDOlxFeGNoYW5nZVxtYWls Ym94LnBzdAAYAAAAAAAAAFvAwjpCt88Rh6BERVNUAACigAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAW8DCOkK3zxGH oERFU1QAAMKAAAAQAAAAVPVOQWzN0BGHqERFU1QAADsAAABSRTogVXNpbmcgY29weSByaWdodCBw YXR0ZXJucy8gZm9sbG93aW5nIFNjb3R0IFNHTiBhZHZpY2UuAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AMA4jhSu YbwBHgBwAAEAAAA7AAAAUkU6IFVzaW5nIGNvcHkgcmlnaHQgcGF0dGVybnMvIGZvbGxvd2luZyBT Y290dCBTR04gYWR2aWNlLgAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbxhrhQ6QU71Vc1sEdCHqERFU1QAAAAAHgAe DAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAAA8AAABsb3ZldGFAYXJuLm5ldAAAAwAGECmKfwoDAAcQ 2QAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAElESUROVE1FTlRJT05JTk1ZUFJFVklPVVNNRVNTQUdFLElIQVZFVVNF RENPUFlSSUdIVEVEREVTSUdOU0lOTVlCVVNJTkVTU0lBTFdBWVNDQUxMRURBTkRESVNDVVNTRURX SEEAAAAAAgEJEAEAAAAQBQAADAUAAJwLAABMWkZ1V5DlNgMACgByY3BnMTI1cjIMYGMxAzABBwtg bpEOEDAzMw8WZmUPkk8B9wKkA2MCAGNoCsBzhGV0AtFwcnEyAACSKgqhbm8SUCAwAdCFAdA2D6Aw NTA0FCHzAdAUEDR9B20CgwBQA9T7Ef8TC2IT4RRQE7IY9BTQrwcTAoACkQjmOwlvMBrf+mUOMDUc Ch0hHN8d6Rv0/x4SHH8gTyANH48dvxwPEGD8Mjgl2ibxJq8nuRv0J+K/Jk8qHyndKV8njytUOQ5Q Hy6kMAEoIzAAAoJzdHnqbAeQaAngdAAAE1AD8FBkY3RsCrFcMlhhmGRqdTFwBRBnaAVCOxYyDAFj CcAyYAMwc258ZXgXMAewBbAAwAJzc7EAUHNiMhRQMWBhE/D0XGsJ4HALkDI/MqMIYOsykAuAZTGg djlgAUAzm78MMDRkKAA3QASgC4BnJ/HpNOZiYRcQZAIgNaA1Rucx0DOQO5EgMTEzDlA2n/83rzi/ AFE5/ACgNG48fz2G/zEkD8A+jz+fQK8OUDnvQw/bRB89szMCghMQYzZgS6GTM5A9sHRpOZAgRAEQ qGF1bAVAUArAYQnA4GFwaCBGAiE2JCVA6GZpLQ+QOAFAOTBQM+tHDzKjYgsgcglQUlIWoNlSUnc0 JUEXAHAB0E1yfzO/Sp9Lpk/QTpAFEAIwLUNPMANhOiBUb1ewUyh1YmoFkHRXsERh6HRlOjYkNk// UQ9SH/9TL1Q5McA9ow4hS6E6tg5Qm1VvVn5SOYEXASBIPZH7BJA2JDdZb1p/W49cnTkPL12/D5Bp cAjQYgqwdDj/SfoPVEYQX79gxmoAYdALULx5L09AXLALEWJFczYk/ygAYz9kT2VfXK9UT2tfbG/v bXVX0ld0WKk5b78zPwMwHWmzOXOfdK96oERvY/51B4ACMAXQTwAaAXjSeDD3eHBxUQGAblgwAGAJ 8E2g730AAgE14F5SZQDwfQAxgJJwHoBcdgiQd2sLgP5ka0CAogTwB0AQYQFADgDvcSI9goIFAhBv BUIXIRLyDVjAbQtRWMAgQzpc6lxXAG9O4W1PMAMQB5BNhLBNDeADYHNvAYAgrk8BIA3gf/BchmZF AMD1AxAuS3B0fdAXEHhwNSHtZ3J4AUB/AW4x0BrwiAQ9TjRjAyAS8wCABZBsdv9BoUbQDnA14IqS AZAAIIsi/4DxfUEBwYqRFuAPcAAARtDzDNABkCAuGhKKiA5Qi0L/TnB4wIu/jM+N3w/ARtAFgbeP f5CPkZ9sa0BG0GyPP/uT/5UFKY4MJUCS35e/lPT4YiAoApGY34rTWVCWj/+bT5xfnW+LAGMQnrKL j6Af/6EvjgwoAJ6/pD+lT6ZfiwD/eACjP6jPqd+q5Ar5AzB4L8N5P3rNeyBJID2wiRBWJwVAfTJp AiAgsEFtvHkgF3BnwLSAshAgtDHzBBBO0GUstaCzsBbgTfHrshAJgCAFoHC1ALJDtvHbAQAAkGcG MbTEYrIQZ4HdBBAutkIHQG2QeQQggZH/MaA1IABwt9EEAH0QBBC28b53FuC0IbUBD1EEIHeJQf+2 MLqCA4G1AE3QB4KzsG2QPwQgE1AFQBbSthC6Ynl0/mg7kbYwuNAFQL7gE4AHcP5wCREAcL9yPcK9 slews7PftLC/dLJEucG5UVS7cgQAf7mRAyC/kqzRBAAFQEtAa+e5QgqFCoVMb2fQAZAKhQ0aEADG ccawAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMMDW9xKtYbwBQAAIMMDW9xKtYbwBCwAAgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAA AAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAlgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA VIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMA MoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUA AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAAD AA00/TcAAH+g ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6184.35249AE0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 21:21:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 21:21:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Help: Anyone have B&W streamer glass?? Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:19:39 -0500 Message-ID: <199705160429.XAA22803@sage.sagelink.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Richard asked for B&W streamer glass. I think I've found some. I'll attempt to describe it to make sure it is what he wants. It is Bullseye Glass, black thread like streamers running through a clear background, additionally it contains a white confetti like substance about 1/2" squares. This glass was purchased wholesale by a local dealer from Mid-America Stained Glass. Currently thats all I know. If anyone needs more information; i.e., phone number, address of wholesaler, etc. Just post or e-mail me. E-mail is pkelly@sagelink.net. As a last resort I'll purchase it and make arrangements with Richard for shipping. Roses and Rainbows to all Pat Kelly ---------- > From: Richard Stoker > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Help: Anyone have B&W streamer glass?? > Date: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 8:00 AM > > I need a largish piece of B&W streamer (no fractures) on clear made by > Bullseye. I made a piece several years ago using this glass and now the > client wants a companion piece....I require approx 4 sq ft. and it is no > longer in production according to all my usual sources of supply. Does > anyone happen to have a piece out there they would be willing to part > with? > > Regards, > Richard Stoker > Turtle Bay Studios > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 15 22:20:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 May 1997 22:20:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1 From: StndGlass1@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 01:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May15.21182.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I see what you are saying. However, when I pay $15 for a book, I personally don't think that gives me the right to make thousands of dollars off of a pattern inside. The artists gear the books MAINLY towards hobbyists, who are making for gifts and for personal enjoyment. It makes perfect sense to me that if you want to make a whole bunch of something, and then sell it and make a lot of money, then the artist who made the design you used is entitled to more than the small amount of your original $15 investment that made it back to their pockets. Just my 2 cents. Jenna Meredith Meredith Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 03:50:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 03:49:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 06:56:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199705161049.GAA03134@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > that if you want to make a whole bunch of something, and then sell it and > make a lot of money, then the artist who made the design you used is entitled > to more than the small amount of your original $15 investment that made it > back to their pockets. That makes sense to me, too. All of the confusion and questions on this point could be easily resolved if the pattern publishers would include a note on their publications to the effect that purchase of the pattern (or pattern book) includes license to make as many as ten (for example) pieces of finished work from each of the patterns as gifts or for resale, but that permission must be requested for production of more than that. Then give the address of the Royalties and Permissions Department for making that request of the designer or publisher to re-use their pattern(s) more than the automatic license requires. Seems to me that that would make everything crystal clear. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 03:51:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 03:49:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What to do with the patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 06:56:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199705161049.GAA03122@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > ..It would seem to me that the person who designed the pattern in the first > place, gave up their right to copyright when they in fact 'published' the > pattern and in fact--'sold that pattern and book to you'. If they wished to > keep it, they should not have sold it, published it or sold it! I would > suggest you have more rights to that "Pattern" if you can show that it was > in fact offered for sale and you 'legally' purchased it. Not! They don't give up their rights at all. If you'll look at the response from the copyright attorney I consulted you'll see quite clearly that they own the pattern whether in print or incorporated into the piece you've created from the pattern. Selling the pattern doesn't invalidate the copyright any more than Norman Mailer's books lose their copyrights when they're published and you buy them. > ..The charge you make on selling of the pattern is in fact false. You are > selling the artwork, glass and labour for the project---not the pattern! > The "Pattern" is the only thing under copyright--not the artwork > around it. Just don't reproduce and sell the "Pattern"!! Go ahead > and sell the darn thing!! Nope, it's not false. Your attitude on this is exactly what mine was until a couple of days ago. Asking the copyright attorney to explain the ground rules on this question clarified it in my mind and I hope you'll understand, as well. And of course you can go ahead and "sell the darn thing!" Even the publishers and designers of patterns who've participated in this discussion say you can "sell the darn thing." It's only when you sell a gazillion of the "darn thing" that they are going to want part of the action. Think of it this way: you're a two-person studio ... you, the fabricator of the work, and the designer, the creator of the pattern for the work you're fabricating. They agree to produce twenty patterns and bind them into a booklet for you to use to create finished work. For that they agree to be paid $15 as long as you build no more than (say) ten of each of the patterns. Pretty cheap. But, says the designer, if you create more than ten of any of them, I should get a percentage of the profit, since it was my patterns that made it possible for you to sell those hundreds of reproductions. If you want to keep all of the profits, design your own patterns. It's not really that hard. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 04:25:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 04:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dani and Michael / class room instruction and reading materials Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 07:25:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May16.3252.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com) > am in the process of writing a book for teaching in the classroom. >Would love any feed back. This sounds great!!! I would be first in line to make a purchase! Would this include design elements also? I would love to have my designs personally, and with a class, critiqued. Since this is not possible, anything on design would be an extra asset. Good luck with your project! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 05:47:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 05:47:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: copyright melee Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 07:51:37 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970516075137.0069d5b0@busprod.com> References: <<199705160035.RAA19536@mars.ark.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just a couple of points to add my thoughts to all of this... To play devil's advocate on the matter of pattern reproduction; I definitely understand where everyone(designer, publisher, and customer) is coming from here, but let me ask a question to simply ponder. I agree that mass production of someone else's design is simply wrong without permission, but to have to request permission when I use a pattern from a book that I paid for, for the few pieces I sell, strikes me as odd. Isn't a pattern book produced so that others may reproduce the item(s)? Do clothing patterns come under the same such copyrights? Secondly, just to let you know what it can be like from the other side...I quit a job as an Art Director for a magazine to move to Oklahoma. I created and did the artwork for the logo that still resides on the cover of the mag. This was a project close to my heart so I made up a contract giving the logo to the company with provisions...that I retain the right to use the artwork if I so desired without "re-selling" it as a logo and also that the only compensation I would require would be recognition as the artist printed in the mag. When I left the job, the next issue neglected to run my name giving me credit for the artwork. I mentioned it to the publisher and they fixed that on the next issue. A number of issues had no aknowledgement at all. With the most recent issue, not only is my name NOT there, but it gives credit for "cover design & artwork" to the new Art Director! So, what do you do? It's not worth anything for me to sue and becomes time consuming to constantly write letters. I have to give up for the time being and tell myself that I know who did the artwork. Stuff to ponder...LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 06:14:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 06:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" , "'LJ Maas'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: copyright melee Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:13:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May16.51347.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Oooh, interesting parallel. I've never seen anything mentioning McCalls, = Simplicity or Butterick requiring you to ask permission before you use = their patterns for cloths or for crafts for resale.=20 I did get a very nice e-mail from Scott at SGN and I intend to ask for = his permission to use the patterns to make items for resale in a small = craft shop. It is doubtful that I will make enough to require me to pay = royalties (more than 10 of any pattern) mainly because I am easily bored = and can't see myself making the same item over and over. Linda Campbell ---------- From: LJ Maas[SMTP:artist@busprod.com] Isn't a pattern book produced so that others may reproduce the item(s)? = Do clothing patterns come under the same such copyrights? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 07:01:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 06:59:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: televar.com!fishbait From: Bonnie Clark To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Patterns Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 07:00:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1997May16.0037.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk So do patterns for say crocheted and knitted items that are often also seen at craft shows also fall in this category? Certainly those pattern books must be sold with the intention of someone making the items and possibly selling them. Bonnie Clark ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 07:11:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 07:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting by hand? Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 10:07:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May16.6759.0> References: <<199705160236.VAA30092@insosf1.netins.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Scott Evans wrote: > > I'm in the process of designing a stained-glass piece that has some edges > that would be impossible to grind, due to some internal points on the > pieces. Is there a recommended way of cutting pieces like this? Obviously > a glass band saw would be ideal, but since I currently lack the resources to > purchase one of these, is there a way of sawing a piece like this by hand > (say with a hacksaw or a keyhole saw and a special blade?? > > Thanks! > Scott > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass no the glass would probably shatter weither when cutting or during soldering because of micro-fractures. also note, if it's going to be difficult to grind it will be difficult to foil...unless were still talking about the mosiac. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 12:22:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 12:21:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Subject: pattern melee Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:21:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May16.11218.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert writes, "If you want to keep all of the profits, design your own patterns. It's not really that hard. It's true - after you've built a few dozen pieces using a canned pattern, you get enough sense of the medium to know what it can do... and can't do. Just pick something around you and draw it - the simpler, the better. Then, look at the drawing as though you're seeing a pattern. You'll know what adjustments to make. Everyone of you has the ability inside of you to create your own designs. Just try it - you'll amaze yourselves. Start looking at things around you, start drawing (where all good art begins) and soon you'll have more pattern ideas than you'll be able to build in a lifetime. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 12:23:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 12:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Subject: copyright melle Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:21:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May16.112120.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LJ Maas writes "I quit my job as an Art Director..." Now you're getting into another arena --- work-for-hire, and the rules are slightly different. We have a similar experience. Michael, in his twenty plus years in glass art, has worked for two other studios as designer. He's had his own studio for nine years. The other two studios still have Michael's designs in their portfolios - they are essentially competing with us using our own work! Recently, we had a customer stop in to price check a design that turned out to be Michael's from umpteen years ago and the other studio was charging 70% more than we would charge today! You might say that those situations really gripe my glass! But, there isn't anything we can do about it, because he was a paid employee (even though in one case the ownership has changed hands). That's life and all you can do is leave the past behind and knock their socks off with your latest work.... which "they" don't have in their portfolios! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 12:23:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 12:21:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Subject: Reading materials/classes Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 15:21:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May16.11211.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Eleanor writes, "am in the process of writing a book for teaching in the classroom". I say " GREAT", too. I'm sure I'm not the only teacher pulling bits and pieces from countless books in order to end up with a concise and relatively modern handbook of stained glass, theoretical and practical. I've yet to find one that has everything I want - 1.) a brief, concise history 2.a)working with copper foil 2.b) working with lead - both with nice, clear line drawings re: cutting, breaking, moving panels, etc. 3.) Designing and pattern-making 4.) Glass painting 5.) Repair/restoration and Installation ... and all of the above using tools that one might actually buy today (!) and illustrated with really GOOD examples of art glass, from traditional to contemporary. Now is that too much to ask?? I'm sure I've forgotten a few chapters! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 13:03:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 13:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!RThaxton From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:01:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1997May16.6122.0> References: <<1997May13.55458.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > I just bought a pattern book for coastal lighthouses and inside it says = > > I can use the pattern for family and friends but that I can't make = > > anything for resale by their patterns. Anyone else heard of this. Can = > > they really enforce this? I've been talking to a consignment craft shop = > > that will take anything I can do with lighthouses. Seems to me that once = > > I change the pattern to suit me, it's mine. > > > > Linda Campbell Now you got me thinking, hum.... If someone takes a picture of your stained glass window at an art show, and then reproduces it, can you get them for infringing on your pattern? I did not want a window I had entered in a show to be copied, but the majority of the people looking were taking pictures of my work. Was I suposed to say DON"T TAKE PICTURES!!! I am certain someone reproduced it. I just hope not. Just another point to ponder... Melissa ***Hind sight is better to have before hand. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 13:07:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 13:06:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nwi.net!dloda From: "Dave & Lynn Loda" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:13:04 -0700 Message-ID: <199705162012.NAA09558@nwinternet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert You hit the nail on the head with this one. It would be simple if the publishers would go along with it. We know CKE is in this forum. What do they think about this? Only problem I see is that it would too simple for the attorneys to screw up. Dave Art Glass of Wenatchee ----- . All of the confusion and questions on > this point could be easily resolved if the pattern publishers would > include a note on their publications to the effect that purchase of > the pattern (or pattern book) includes license to make as many as ten > (for example) pieces of finished work from each of the patterns as > gifts or for resale, but that permission must be requested for > production of more than that. Then give the address of the Royalties > and Permissions Department for making that request of the designer or > publisher to re-use their pattern(s) more than the automatic license > requires. > > Seems to me that that would make everything crystal clear. > > Albert > ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 16:49:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 16:48:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 17:42:58 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970512041740.132f402e@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani; I would like a copy of the reading list too, if you don't just post it. Meg Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 16:49:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 16:48:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 17:43:06 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970512041742.132f729e@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have been watching these copyright things fly by.....no I wouldn't expect any one to ask my permission, if I had first published it for this purpose!!! I thought long and hard about which pattern i would share with the glass atlas, and have gotten it all copied (not mailed yet :() I don't expect every one to write me if they decide they want to use it!!! Thats why I am putting it there! IF publishers DO expect this, why aren't they more specific, and include a pull out form letter, with all they require??? If someone took a picture of my stained glass window, and reprinted it as postcards without my permission, I would get upset... (like your ex. of the artwork used in a craft sale) but if you have SOLD the patterns for patterns??? >I'm not too sure what all of the confusion is about. It seems only fair to >me. If you designed a pattern, would you not want someone to ask before they >duplicated it and sold it? > >Jenna Meredith >Meredith Stained Glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 17:09:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 17:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 20:16:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199705170009.UAA14921@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Now you got me thinking, hum.... If someone takes a picture of your > stained glass window at an art show, and then reproduces it, can you get > them for infringing on your pattern? I did not want a window I had > entered in a show to be copied, but the majority of the people looking > were taking pictures of my work. Was I suposed to say DON"T TAKE > PICTURES!!! I am certain someone reproduced it. I see nothing wrong with posting a small sign asking that photographs not be taken. In fact, I've *seen such signs at craft shows. At least, having done that, you have every right to walk up to offenders and ask nicely (the first time) that they not photograph your work. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 17:57:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 17:57:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: pipeline.com!erainbow2 From: Mark Wallace To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: What's happened? Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 20:57:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970515224657.2a47fca2@pop.pipeline.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Did I do something wrong? I haven't received any bungi mail in over one week. Help! Mark ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 18:24:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 18:24:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: What's happened? Date: Fri, 16 May 97 21:26:53 -0400 Message-ID: <199705170124.VAA21073@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Subject: What's happened? >Sent: 5/16/97 8:57 PM >Received: 5/16/97 9:01 PM >From: Mark Wallace, erainbow2@pipeline.com >Reply-To: glass@bungi.com >To: glass@bungi.com > > Did I do something wrong? I haven't received any bungi mail in over one >week. Help! I don't know Mark, it's been hot and heavy around here. The discussion has been mainly about copyrighting. Guess you'd better check with Glenna, or maybe your server? How about letting us know if you got this message? Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 18:47:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 18:46:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Streamer Glass Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 20:45:34 -0500 Message-ID: <199705170155.UAA00282@sage.sagelink.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Did some more research on the Bullseye B&W Streamer glass. It was purchased from a company called Mid-America, Kansas City, Kansas, 1-800-255-6631. It was Bullseye the orange and black logo was still attached. I copied some numbers from the glass and assume they are the inventory numbers. There are two different kinds: 1.) black streamer with white squares (approx 1/4'') scattered throughout resembling torn paper or confetti, Number is 235 (white marker number) or 560 (blue marker number). 2.) black streamer with smaller black squares (approx 1/8") scattered throughout resembling torn paper or confetti, number is 234 or 254 (couldn't read the handwriting very well). This glass was sold to Apache Craft Shop, Ft Hood, TX, time frame unknown. Additionally, they also received white streamer w/white confetti. Hope this helps someone ... especially Richard. If nothing else another source for SG supplies. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 16 22:38:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 May 1997 22:36:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!dariece From: dariece@juno.com (Dariece G. McClure) To: glass@BUNGI.COM Subject: Re: pattern melee Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 01:35:35 EDT Message-ID: <1997May17.53535.0> References: <<1997May16.11218.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani, Thanks for the inspiration! Dariece On Fri, 16 May 1997 15:21:08 -0400 "Michael J. Greer" writes: >Albert writes, "If you want to keep all of the profits, design your >own >patterns. It's not really that hard. > >It's true - after you've built a few dozen pieces using a canned >pattern, >you get enough sense of the medium to know what it can do... and can't >do. >Just pick something around you and draw it - the simpler, the better. >Then, look at the drawing as though you're seeing a pattern. You'll >know >what adjustments to make. Everyone of you has the ability inside of >you to >create your own designs. Just try it - you'll amaze yourselves. >Start >looking at things around you, start drawing (where all good art >begins) and >soon you'll have more pattern ideas than you'll be able to build in a >lifetime. >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 17 05:40:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 May 1997 05:39:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: fast.net!charles From: Charles To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 08:31:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May17.43122.0> References: <<199705170009.UAA14921@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I see nothing wrong with posting a small sign asking that photographs > not be taken. We have hundreds of made up lamps, panels, candle holders and gift items in our store for inspiration to the customer. All samples, we don't sell made up items or do custom work anymore. I don't remember any customers taking photos with first asking permission. The artist is also generally respected on this in outdoor shows IF they put up a sign like Albert suggested. BTW we love it when customers like things enough to take pictures. Mariannes' job is new product design and development. Most of her time is spent drawing patterns that we hope are used to promote stained glass through sales of completed items. Charles Warner Warner-Crivellaro http://www.warner-criv.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 17 07:56:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 May 1997 07:55:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 10:52:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May17.65248.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19970512041742.132f729e@sol.racsa.co.cr>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk here's another question about copyrights. if you did sue some one (say they were selling them on a home shopping channel of some kind), who would get the money, if that's what you were sueing over. being that the publisher would do the sueing, and it's mainly the artist who was'nt asked in the first place. who gets the money and in what percentage? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 17 08:04:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 May 1997 08:03:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 11:00:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May17.7047.0> References: <<1997May17.43122.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Charles wrote: > > > I see nothing wrong with posting a small sign asking that photographs > > not be taken. > > We have hundreds of made up lamps, panels, candle holders and gift > items in our store for inspiration to the customer. All samples, > we don't sell made up items or do custom work anymore. > > I don't remember any customers taking photos with first asking > permission. The artist is also generally respected on this > in outdoor shows IF they put up a sign like Albert suggested. > > BTW we love it when customers like things enough to take pictures. > > Mariannes' job is new product design and development. Most of her > time is spent drawing patterns that we hope are used to promote > stained glass through sales of completed items. > > Charles Warner > Warner-Crivellaro > http://www.warner-criv.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i personally always try to get pictures of other peoples work. i never really plan to make any of them, i only use them for refrence or inspiration. generally i take a shot from the distance, but if i think the work is good enough, i'll generally ask first. i usually tell them it's just for refrence, which it is. the only time's i won't ask is if they stepped away from the booth. i'll also ask a store owner if i could take pictures of any stained glass stuff, if there is any there. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 17 09:23:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 May 1997 09:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: lobo.net!exotic From: "Myrddn" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Hi I'm back Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 10:29:18 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I am back. Was very ill for a couple of week, got back to the computer and found myself with over 300 messages to read through, So if my replies appear to be coming out of nowhere, its because it am doing catch up Blessed Be Myrddn Bring your heart when you come, and they will come! Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 17 09:24:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 May 1997 09:23:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: lobo.net!exotic From: "Myrddn" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Incorporating glass with pottery Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 10:30:28 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > If you used a bead of > dark-colored sealant to put them into a dark-colored piece of > pottery, they'd likely be watertight, but not useable for food, as > you rightly guess. I'll confess, though, that the idea of using > silicone caulk or adhesive to join glass and ceramic at that stage > is repugnant to me. Actually Albert, using silicon is perfectly safe for human use, once it has thoroughly dried. I have an old mexican water crock, probably 50 years old. Since they used lead in their glazes and it was cracked inside, is put a thin layer of silicon caulking over the entire inner surface, let it dry for a week, washed it and have been unsing it safely for over ten years. It saved a beautiful piece of crockware. Certainly you could use that techique for goblets, vases, and sho pieces like a drum base or the like. I think I'll talk to my potter friend. Blessed Be Myrddn Bring your heart when you come, and they will come! Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 17 13:27:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 May 1997 13:27:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3 From: Garry McKenna To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Required Reading Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 16:25:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970517202551.0066f8a0@mail.kwic.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani - In response to your request for a list of books for required reading. I have an excellent book called How To Work In Stained Glass, second edition. by Anita & Seymour Isenberg and published by the Chilton Book Company, Radnor, Pennsylvania. It has absolutely everything you ever wanted to know about Stained Glass, all stated clearly and concisely and with many pictures and illustrations. A highly recommended book!! Linda . ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 17 13:30:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 May 1997 13:30:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3 From: Garry McKenna To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Required Reading Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 16:29:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970517202915.006644bc@mail.kwic.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani - In response to your request for a list of books for required reading. I have an excellent book called How To Work In Stained Glass, second edition. by Anita & Seymour Isenberg and published by the Chilton Book Company, Radnor, Pennsylvania. It has absolutely everything you ever wanted to know about Stained Glass, all stated clearly and concisely and with many pictures and illustrations. A highly recommended book!! Linda . ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 17 16:41:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 May 1997 16:40:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hi I'm back Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 19:36:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May17.153646.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Myrddn, Glad you are back, you have my sympathy, I suffer from serious recurring back problems from a fall. Just thankful I can walk again. Hope you are well on the mend, and have a great summer. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Myrddn wrote: > > Hi, I am back. Was very ill for a couple of week, got back to the > computer and found myself with over 300 messages to read through, So > if my replies appear to be coming out of nowhere, its because it am > doing catch up ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 17 16:46:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 May 1997 16:46:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Request for photos!!From Elisabeth!!! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:52:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199705172346.AAA11465@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi PJ, Thanks very much for your e-mail and suggestions - in the face of you being frantically busy with the move - very much appreciated. The Salvation Army guy; I sent you a copy of the reply I sent to him. Hope that is OK. Let me know if you hear anything more from him.... In the process, I of course had a closer look at your web-site myself. Quite impressive. You certainly seem to have sorted out the photography side of things (which is what I have struggled with, especially since I have to be my own photographer...) There was another question you asked; in UK, what's the difference between a "solicitor" and a "barrister".? In essence, the solicitor does all the foot-work and the barrister does all the "glamour" work, and a barrister costs a heck of a great deal more. You, as a private individual, cannot contact a barrister directly, it has to be done through a solicitor, who first has to spend time, effort (& money) ensuring that your case is worthy of a barrister's attention So in the long run, a barrister is only as good as the information he is fed with from the solicitor, who -in turn - is only as good as the information and guidance that YOU feed him/her with......... It all boils down to you, in the end. Which means, that you have to do more legal foot-work yourself than any of them put together, in order for your case to be presented even 50% in the way you want it to the Court and Jury...... A cynical definition, perhaps. But quite close to the truth, nevertheless.I'm sure there were more things I wanted to talk to you about, but my head is totally empty at the moment.... Talk to you soon again. Take care. Elisabeth 'n Toby you wrote No you didn't get zapped here.... Sorry I didn't respond to your request...I might have some photos of work that just might work for this gentlemen. If you take a look at our site you might see something there or I have a zillion others. The url is http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/artglass. How and where do the photos need to be sent? I apologize again for missing the request. We are moving into a new studio and well.....I must admit I did overlook it. Just let me know. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 17 18:18:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 May 1997 18:18:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Subject: Reading Materials Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 21:17:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May17.171732.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda- I'm familiar with the Isenberg books and already have them on the reading list. Overall, they are pretty concise, but just between you, me, and 300 other Bungi members, I hate the photos. Many (if not most) of the examples of stained glass are just plain bad from an artistic stand-point. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 18 03:23:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 1997 03:22:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Required Reading Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 06:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May18.22155.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Ditto to what Linda said re: Anita and Seymour Isenberg's book,"How To Work In Stained Glass", second edition. It is like no other book I have ever found in that it is sooo comprehensive and is like a text book as opposed to those "light reading how-to books" with patterns included. Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com) P.S. For reading about techniques used before 1940, "Stained Glass Craft" by J.A.F. Divine G. Blachford is very informative. Dover Publications ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 18 08:14:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 1997 08:12:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: prodigy.com!JXGS20A From: JXGS20A@prodigy.com (MR JOHN H MILNE) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Large Panel Reinforcement Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 11:04:26, -0500 Message-ID: <199705181504.LAA26682@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am interested in any info on reinforcing, framing, and installing large stained glass panels for operating doors and windows as well as stationary windows and skylights. Thanks, Peter Gehring ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 18 12:54:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 1997 12:54:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: thezone.net!robertcrane From: robert crane To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: upcomming events in Vermont Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 17:34:09 -0230 Message-ID: <1997May18.14469.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: thezone Precedence: bulk Hi: I am travelling in Vermont the first week in July and was wondering if all you bungi people knew of any interesting shows etc that I could visit on my trek. Will be going from the north west to the south east and back again. A workshop here or there would be nice. Thanks! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 18 17:05:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 1997 17:05:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!ETCHNGLASS From: ETCHNGLASS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: upcomming events in Vermont Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 20:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May18.16455.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ok Im here ... wont be for long but will talk to you from work if I aint here RMM YR ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 18 18:34:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 1997 18:33:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nobleco.net!glass From: "Wallace, Paul" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 21:33:20 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May18.213320.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sounds very reasonable. We were asked by a consignment shop at a local university to do suncatchers of a paw print (the school logo) as the previous artist had quit. Knowing that the school watched for knockoffs very closley we wrote to request permission to manufacture these items. We expected to make less than 50 per year. Because it was a simple design about 6 pcs. and the store told us they wanted something they could retail for about $10 or less, we decided to sell them in the $6 to $7 price range. When the man called from the school's trademark licencing agent, we were informed that the minimum they required was a $500 per year payment and 15% of retail sales. needless to say we didn't produce them! Paul > > >I'm curious ;), how much would be the royalty fee (in percentage) that you > >would use? I've always wondered just how to do this. Thanks in advance. > > Since this was a response to something I posted, I'll respond. But keep in > mind I'm only speaking for SGN Publishing. Each publisher probably has a > different way of figuring royalty payments. > > As I mentioned previously, if you're selling a few projects from this book > and a few from that book at craft fairs or consignment shops, that's fine > with us. We're glad that you like our patterns and have found places to sell > them. > > However, if you're selling one particular project over and over, we assume > that a *small* part of the reason for this is because it was made from an > attractive design. Therefore, we expect to be able to compensate the designer > by receiving a *small* royalty fee. > > We don't expect a royalty until someone has sold 10 or more projects made > from the same pattern. And what's the royalty percentage? Well, that can vary > a little depending on the situation. For example, you may be selling > wholesale and have to keep your selling price as low as possible so the > retailer you sell to can mark it up and make money, too. In this case, the > royalty would probably be lower than if you were selling to the consumer at > full "retail." Due to these (and other) variables, there isn't a single flat > percentage that we use. (This is why we ask you to contact us!) But, > regardless of the situation, the royalty never exceeds 10% of your selling > price. > > Hope this helps, > > Scott > SGN Publishing > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 18 18:53:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 1997 18:52:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Large Panel Reinforcement Date: Sun, 18 May 97 21:54:55 -0400 Message-ID: <199705190152.VAA22380@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I am interested in any info on reinforcing, framing, and installing >large stained glass panels for operating doors and windows as well as >stationary windows and skylights. > Thanks, Peter Gehring Peter, there is a standing column in "Stained Glass News" which you can get only at retail stores. The column is devoted to making and reinforcing large panels and has a lot of good info. I can't remember the name of it but the columnist keeps saying, "Design it Right and Build it Strong!" It's a small newspaper but full of great tips. Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 18 19:03:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 1997 19:02:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!studioone1 From: studioone1@juno.com (Dee l Plott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: cleaning Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 21:58:10 EDT Message-ID: <1997May19.15810.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Help, I'm new on bungi.com so any help would be appreciated. I have been doing glass for many years and never had any major problems with oxidizing on the solder lines. Recently, however, after thorough cleaning the solder is getting cloudy and dirty after only a few days. Any thoughts on what is happening and how to solve this problem? The solder is new and so are the chemicals, I tried those two things right off......thanks dee studioone1@Juno.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 18 19:08:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 1997 19:08:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!studioone1 From: studioone1@juno.com (Dee l Plott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: wholesaling Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:04:37 EDT Message-ID: <1997May19.2437.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Has anyone done much wholesaling with their glass? Most of the people I've spoken to say they have been told they need to give a 50% discount to the shops that order. My prices are pretty decent and not overly high as it is, there is no way I could discount that much. I could use some imput on this because if this is the going rate then I can't see why wholesaling would be a good deal for anyone. dee studioone1@Juno.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 18 19:27:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 1997 19:26:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: crl.com!slally From: Sean Lally To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Reading Materials Date: Sun, 18 May 97 19:26:19 -0700 Message-ID: <199705190223.AA10700@mail.crl.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Many (if not most) of the examples >of stained glass are just plain bad from an artistic stand-point. Howdy, first post here; I've been lurking for a little while... I just wanted to second your opinion on the examples in that book. It was the first book I ever picked up on the subject and those pictures almost discouraged me from pursuing the hobby. I thought if that's the best hobbyists can do then I don't know if I even want to give it a try. I wonder if the pieces were just a product of their time? That was my rationalization anyhow and I forged on. Sean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 18 20:09:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 1997 20:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: email8.starnetinc.com!glasdawg From: "Paula Nelson" To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 22:15:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199705190306.WAA06660@email8.starnetinc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: vom Uitland Rottz of the Glass Dog Studio Precedence: bulk Scott wrote: > regardless of the situation, the royalty never exceeds 10% of your selling > price. Scott, thank you for the answer; as I said I've always been curious. I find this thread extremely interesting and informative, and the ramifications of using non-original art is coming home 'real quick' (boy, am I glad my parents graced me with the ability to do my own!) I wondered specifically because I do design my own work and always wondered what I could do if I saw my designs being reproduced (I do dog and dog sport related work)... Thanks again. Paula glasdawg@ngai.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Glass Dog Studio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 18 20:59:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 May 1997 20:59:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: cleaning Date: Mon, 19 May 97 00:01:47 -0400 Message-ID: <199705190359.XAA26154@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I have >been doing glass for many years and never had any major problems with >oxidizing on the solder lines. Recently, however, after thorough >cleaning the solder is getting cloudy and dirty after only a few days. >Any thoughts on what is happening and how to solve this problem? The >solder is new and so are the chemicals, I tried those two things right >off......thanks dee studioone1@Juno.com Dee, yes I had that same problem two years ago in the summer when we had a draught. We have well water and somebody suggested there were too many minerals in the water. I bought distilled water to clean with and it solved the problem. Used the distilled water for about a year, then gingerly went back to my own well water. Haven't had a problem since, at least not a really serious one like you're describing. To clean it up on the ones already done, I scrubbed with 000 steel wool, then covered with clear fingernail polish. Good luck! Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 19 03:09:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 May 1997 03:09:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: wholesaling Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 06:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May19.2915.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com) Hi dee, I haven't really done consignment sales but have inquired about it. I have been informed of the average 20% commission charge, though told that it can go as high as 50%. You could try some other shops to find a better % or you could just request a fair price for your work, add on the 50% and see if they sell. Recently at a wholesale show I was amazed at the high cost of completed wholesale stained glass items. I realized at the time that my prices were really wholesale (to friends and family) as opposed to retail. Perhaps your prices are too low as mine were. Good Luck! Eleanor ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 19 04:14:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 May 1997 04:13:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: hawk.rmplc.co.uk!mdcglas From: Phil Speedwell To: "Bugi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: My First Site Date: Mon, 19 May 97 12:14:25 +0100 Message-ID: <199705191113.LAA01572@mx0.rmplc.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all, I'm in the process of putting together my web site thought I would ask you fellow bunginians for comments before I go any further. For those of you with long memories the round panel with the gluechip border is the one I asked for help on when I was trying to keep it round while I was leading it. the URL is http://www.essglasgow.org.uk/ssghome/ssghome.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 19 04:44:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 May 1997 04:44:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: wholesaling Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 07:51:17 +0000 Message-ID: <199705191144.HAA13915@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Has anyone done much wholesaling with their glass? Most of the people > I've spoken to say they have been told they need to give a 50% discount > to the shops that order. Just raise your prices, Dee. The expectation when you sell at wholesale is that you'll sell more ... so they have to order more. That's the quid pro quo (which translates to "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours," roughly). If you have a 100-piece minimum, for example, you can introduce certain efficiencies (doing all the cutting at once, buying larger quantities of supplies, thus reducing your costs, etc.), that make it possible. A wholesale buyer takes certain risks (your work might not sell quickly enough to provide the cash flow necessary to keep their doors open, for example; their overhead must be covered just as yours must be; they have to insure your work and that of others, the expense of which comes right out of whatever your work sells for; if they have employees, those employees have to be paid, insured, taxed, FICA paid, etc.), so there must be enough room for them to be able to do all of that (and more) and still realize a profit. Fifty percent is low, actually. In my experience, sixty percent is more common. If you can't give a discount like that, my personal reaction is that you are under-valuing the worth of your work. No offense; that's a common thing, too. Perhaps you should re-assess what your costs actually are, what your time is worth, how much each finished work costs you. Be realistic and be brave. "The laborer is worth his hire," says the Old Testament (or was it the New?). That was true then and it's true now. When you've figured out your actual cost to produce each item in your line, multiply that cost times five: that's your retail price. Retail price less 60%, then, is 40% of retail to you and you've doubled your actual cost at that level. If the item has cost you $5 to produce, you receive $10. Half of that is your own money being returned to you; it's not profit. The other half -- $5 -- is your gross profit. Out of that you have to pay your rent, utilities, salary, taxes, insurance, etc., and put whatever's left (the actual net profit on your time and effort) into the bank or back into the business. Even if you're working out of your house, you have to think of pricing this way, otherwise you'll end up selling work for less than it actually cost you to make (which seems to be what you're indicating when you say you couldn't afford to give a fifty percent discount). Of course, if you sell quite a bit of your work at your new retail level, you'll be getting a healthy return on your investment in time and money. Then you will be able to afford a second home in Aspen and you can invite the entire bungi crowd up for the weekend. My 2c worth, Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 19 04:45:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 May 1997 04:44:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 07:51:17 +0000 Message-ID: <199705191143.HAA13900@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > them in the $6 to $7 price range. When the man called from the > school's trademark licencing agent, we were informed that the minimum > they required was a $500 per year payment and 15% of retail sales. > needless to say we didn't produce them! You should have asked how many they would expect to buy themselves. Five hundred dollars a year and fifteen percent wouldn't be bad if you were cranking a thousand of them a week. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 19 05:34:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 May 1997 05:34:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: wholesaling Date: Mon, 19 May 97 08:23:34 EDT Message-ID: <970519.083404.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1997May19.2437.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am often amazed at the prices on stained glass in stores in tourist areas. Sometimes three times what I could get for a piece at a craft fair ten miles away. (Areas such as Mystic, CT or craft stores in Burlington VT) Speaking of VT, I don't know what craft shows can be found, but be sure you get a look across lake Champlain at the Adirondacks at sunset. Drive up Mt. Mansfield if you have a car that can handle steep hills. Check out Quechee Gorge (although it's become a bit of a tourist trap). There's lots of inspiration to be found. If you are going through Massachusetts, take a couple of hours to check out the stores in Northampton (there were some wonderful glass blown pieces last time I was there). Back to tourist prices....always much higher than resident prices, but I doubt if the crafter really makes much more. Once the store does its markup.... -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 19 06:00:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 May 1997 05:59:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: cleaning Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 08:56:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May19.45641.0> References: <<1997May19.15810.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dee l Plott wrote: > > Help, I'm new on bungi.com so any help would be appreciated. I have > been doing glass for many years and never had any major problems with > oxidizing on the solder lines. Recently, however, after thorough > cleaning the solder is getting cloudy and dirty after only a few days. > Any thoughts on what is happening and how to solve this problem? The > solder is new and so are the chemicals, I tried those two things right > off......thanks dee studioone1@Juno.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well it could be a change in water maybe more minerals, so the soap and flux may not be washing off completly. i use joy and baking soda to clean my stuff off with. the final step involves glass wax, which works fine for me. although you mentioned the solder and flux, is the flux a different brand then other types you used? not sure if i can think of anything else... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 19 06:02:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 May 1997 06:02:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: wholesaling Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 08:59:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1997May19.4597.0> References: <<1997May19.2437.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dee l Plott wrote: > > Hi, > > Has anyone done much wholesaling with their glass? Most of the people > I've spoken to say they have been told they need to give a 50% discount > to the shops that order. My prices are pretty decent and not overly > high as it is, there is no way I could discount that much. I could use > some imput on this because if this is the going rate then I can't see why > wholesaling would be a good deal for anyone. > > dee > studioone1@Juno.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass personally i never believed in wholesaleing art. it's pretty much letting everyone know that you will accept a 50% discount. you could charge your full price, what they do then is double your price that you were asking. which will probably make it not sell, but it depends on the area your in. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - Plus New Photos - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden - But That's Not All!!! - My Links Page is UP! - And Awards Page Too ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 19 07:17:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 May 1997 07:17:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Help: Anyone have B&W streamer glass?? Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:16:59 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May19.141659.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Pat, I have one sheet of black streamer glass, no white confetti, and it's Bullseye. I don't recall seeing anything with white confetti, are you sure it's catalogue glass? (vs "Saturday Glass"). The number on mine is 4100F. I only ask because I know that Mid America sold a lot of Bullseye Saturday Glass, Spectrum T glass, Uroboros "uncat" glass, etc. I've had some difficulty getting matched glass from them in the past. Call me (toll free) at 1-888-270-0037 if you want more info. Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass >From: "Pat Kelly" >To: >Reply-To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: Re: Help: Anyone have B&W streamer glass?? >X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly >Date: Fri, 16 May 97 04:19:39 +0000 > >Richard asked for B&W streamer glass. I think I've found some. I'll attempt >to describe it to make sure it is what he wants. It is Bullseye Glass, >black thread like streamers running through a clear background, >additionally it contains a white confetti like substance about 1/2" >squares. This glass was purchased wholesale by a local dealer from >Mid-America Stained Glass. Currently thats all I know. If anyone needs more >information; i.e., phone number, address of wholesaler, etc. Just post or >e-mail me. E-mail is pkelly@sagelink.net. > >As a last resort I'll purchase it and make arrangements with Richard for >shipping. > >Roses and Rainbows to all > >Pat Kelly > > > >---------- >> From: Richard Stoker >> To: glass@bungi.com >> Subject: Help: Anyone have B&W streamer glass?? >> Date: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 8:00 AM >> >> I need a largish piece of B&W streamer (no fractures) on clear made by >> Bullseye. I made a piece several years ago using this glass and now the >> client wants a companion piece....I require approx 4 sq ft. and it is no > >> longer in production according to all my usual sources of supply. Does >> anyone happen to have a piece out there they would be willing to part >> with? >> >> Regards, >> Richard Stoker >> Turtle Bay Studios >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 19 07:41:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 May 1997 07:40:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My First Site Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 07:40:08 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "My First Site" on May 19, 12:14, Phil Speedwell writes:] > I'm in the process of putting together my web site thought I would ask > you fellow bunginians for comments before I go any further. > > For those of you with long memories the round panel with the gluechip > border is the one I asked for help on when I was trying to keep it round > while I was leading it. Very nice. I especially liked the round panel with the blue flowers. Was the line vertical panel done in lead or copper foil? -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 19 07:56:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 May 1997 07:56:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!MARGEM From: MARGEM@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What you can do with patterns Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:55:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997May19.65555.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk CKE did put in their two-cents worth all last week. Check out the posts signed by MargeM. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 19 08:00:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 May 1997 07:59:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: tiffany restoration (long) Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:59:30 +0000 Message-ID: <1997May19.145930.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I'm sorry Albert but I have never been able to see a clear advantage to >taking windows off site, a relead being the major exception. > >Why? > >The number of times the windows have to be handled for one > >--- taken down >--- more likely to be removed from sash (high potential for additional damage) >--- crated >--- shipped by? common carrier ...yikes! studio vechicle? what if.. god >forbid a roll-over on an icey road? >--- uncrated at studio by who? *Herman, ace restorer from Germany* I'm sure >he'll drop everything and run to the loading dock or *klutz jr. the >bookkeeper's kid who started last week? >---