From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 06:09:36 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 08:37:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.4371.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.14182.0>>
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Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

>...Warner Crivellaro web page That has got to be the most confusing...there is one thing I found very pleasing! Finally someone has tried to reproduce actual pictures of glass for those of us who have to mail order everything because of location...

Most all of the glass companies sell sample kits that are updated
regularly. They can be purchased through Delphi, and I would guess other
retail/mail order houses. Even though the samples are not a particular
sheet of glass, I find mine very useful for color and a general idea of
what the sheet will be like.

Hilary
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 06:55:16 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:Redware1@aol.com" <Redware1@aol.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: 01 Feb 97 09:51:00 EST
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Precedence: bulk

I saw a segment on a TV home craft show featuring the ever-present Vicki Pane
using those mosaic 2-sided cutters.  It looked like using scissors on glass.
The shapes she was cutting were intensionally unfinished, so I couldn't tell you
how true they cut to a pattern.  She was just sort of snipping off corners of
small sheets of glass in a very quick way.  Personally, I'm not going to get
them.  I'll just stick with my glass cutters and plyers.

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 06:55:17 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:Redware1@aol.com" <Redware1@aol.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: mosaics
Date: 01 Feb 97 09:50:58 EST
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Precedence: bulk

Did I say large oval mold?  Maybe I mistakenly combined two thoughts.  My table
top is a large oval, but it is not a mold.  The table top oval is a piece of cut
laminated countertop which I then glued the stained glass pieces to.  The mold I
purchased are a large circle and an 8" square.  I got them through Adventure Art
Glass in Michigan, through their wholesale catalog.  I saw the molds at a
stained glass conference in NJ this past autumn, and liked the larger sizes.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 06:55:18 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: 01 Feb 97 09:51:03 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.14513.0>
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Phil Taylor asked:
<Do I tack the top side and then flip it to tack the reverse side?  Or, because
of the size, should I do a first bead around the top side and then flip it over?
	How much flux should I use during soldering? (I use Glasflux liquid)
	How do I remove the flux?>

1) Firstly I assume you have included internal reinforcing strip inside the
piece.  Due to the size, I would do a full bead on the top side prior to
flipping.  Also, make sure you get extra hands to help you flip it.  I found
that soldering a large panel on a piece of homosote works well in helping you
flip the piece.  You tip one edge of the homosote up to verticle, rotate the
stained glass piece around, put the stained glass back against the verticle
homosote, and then lower the homosote back to horizontal.  This way the weight
of the window is evenly supported by the homosote.

2) Only flux the area to be soldered right then.  Use the same amount of flux as
you normally use.

3) Remove the flux by hand-washing the soldered area using a bucket of warm,
soapy water applied with a sponge.  Then rinse with clean warm water and towel
dry.  Like a good hand-washing of your car.

Enjoy!.....Christie

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 06:55:19 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: 01 Feb 97 09:50:52 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.145052.0>
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maruca@netaxs.com asked:
<What are you using to color your grout, Christie?>

I mix in latex paints.

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 07:08:04 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:06:43 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.15643.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


T,

When we do large panels, we always build them on a board (plywood, etc) that
is slightly larger than the finished panel.  So when we need to flip the
panel over, it's a two man operation, one to raise one side of the board
from the flat position to a vertical, the other guy stands on the opposite
side of the board and pulls the panel off (holding it on one side and
letting it hang) then turns it around and sets it back on the board, then
the board is lowered back down to the flat position.  It's kinda cumbersome,
but if you try to lift the panel from a flat position without any support,
be ready to fix the broken panes that follow.  Also, to remove solder flux,
we use a mild soap solution (such as CJ's) with a large sponge, wring it out
so it's wet but not dripping, then scub the panel.  Repeat maybe 2-3 times,
then follow scrubing with fresh water, towel dry, then wipe it down with
fresh water again, towel dry, more fresh water, then towel dry.  It should
take patinas just fine.  

Soldering issues ....... well we usually solder the panel up on the front
with a nice bead and clean as above, flip the panel over and do the backside
and clean it, then flip it back again so the front side is up and fix any
melt throughs.

Hope this helps,

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

At 05:53 AM 2/1/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi, when I get ready to foil and solder my "Large Window" I am curious 
>about the flux and soldering.  I've not done a large piece before (65" 
>long by 19" high), and am not sure about a number of soldering issues.
>	Do I tack the top side and then flip it to tack the reverse 
>side?  Or, because of the size, should I do a first bead around the top 
>side and then flip it over?
>	How much flux should I use during soldering? (I use Glasflux 
>liquid)
>	How do I remove the flux?
>	Would appreciate any help and comments.  Thanks, T. in Montana
>----
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>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 08:01:56 1997
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From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Pattern Paper
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 08:00:37 PST
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Hi everyone,

I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
And then cut your glass.  I have run out of this wonderful paper
and the store has since closed.  Does anyone know where I can get
more of this?


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 08:19:26 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 10:17:28 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702011617.KAA01474@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Good point Hilary, Anyone serious about S.G.should have sample sets at least
from the mfg'ers that they are most likely to buy from. A  photographic or
computer rendering is no substitute for the real thing, not only for color
but also for texture, degree of light transmission, and relative values to
other glasses that might be used in a project. I have even test scored some
samples to help me determine how much I should order based on anticipated
difficulty with the cutting. In addition, the more you look through the
samples, the images of the different glasses are retained in your *minds
eye*? and design and glass selection intergration for projects tends to
become more efficient and creative. Just my 0.02 worth

Len


>Most all of the glass companies sell sample kits that are updated
>regularly. They can be purchased through Delphi, and I would guess other
>retail/mail order houses. Even though the samples are not a particular
>sheet of glass, I find mine very useful for color and a general idea of
>what the sheet will be like.
>
>Hilary

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 08:50:47 1997
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From: pphilb@tc3net.com (Peggy  Philbrook)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:43:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.6434.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.15643.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'm still a novice, but have made two windows.  I made two pieces of
composite board larger than window.  I nailed a yard stick down
two butted sides on each one (forms a right angle).  Then, when I was
ready to flip I set the other one on top (with the two yard sticks 
opposite those on the working board), and flipped it over.  I was 
nervous, but it worked well.  I didn't know about the scrubbing as you
go process, so I carried it down like a sandwich, set it in the
tub and cleaned it using the shower hose.  Good luck.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 08:56:44 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:51:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.65155.0>
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Hi Glenna-
Try this product from your local Office Supply store (like Office
Depot).  It is 8 1/2 by 11" sheets of "Adhesive-Backed Full Sheets" 
Avery product # 5455.  They are transparent enough to put on a pattern
over a light box, trace your pattern on, then cut out your individual
pieces.  I use it if I need a particular hard to place design.  Most of
the time I just cut "English Method"  = put pattern on light box, put
glass over pattern, trace, or cut pieces in place.  Saves the pattern
cut out step entirely.  I works very well for me.  But to those used to
cutting out pieces of pattern, then pasting them to glass for cutting,
this Avery product would do the trick.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations



>Glenna Rand wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
> was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
> teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
> your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
> And then cut your glass.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 09:46:24 1997
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From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:45:03 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970201124618.2e3702a8@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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At 06:59 PM 1/28/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
>storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
>a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
>misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?  
                        >Debi in Gunnison


Hi Debi and Everyone,
        I am just beginning the process of putting together a workshop.
Started out with a long table just as you have done.  Added a discarded
microwave stand that has a cutting board surface at waist level and an
overhead "box" (to hold the mike).  I use this to solder.  I placed an up
side down ceiling tile (cut to size) over the cutting board and store glass
and  supplies overhead, and below. 
                         I also store glass in banana boxes.  They are
sturdy cardboard with fitted lids and hand grip openings in the box for easy
carrying.  Produce distributors use several different types of materials to
put between layers of fruit, sized sheets of thin sponge "rubber", plastic
bubble sheets, "quilted" paper and lightweight cardboard.  These work
terrific or storing several layers of glass.
                        I use 2.5 gal plastic pails with lids (used for
packaged pre cut fruits in liquid) for glass scrap during cutting.  Good for
collecting all types of broken glass around the house as well as spent light
bulbs.  When the pail gets about half full, I put the lid on it, label it "G
L A S S" and dispose of it.  BTW, the lids are designed with a ridge on top
so that with the lid in place the pails can be stacked safely.
                        For larger pieces of scrap that may be used in other
projects, I store them in "fish boxes".... These are plastic boxes with lids
(12" X 15" X 4") used by wholesale seafood distributors to deliver fresh
fish to food service establishments.  They can be easily cleaned out with
soap and water and a little chlorine solution, (.25 cup in 2 qts of water)
if you want to be sure that you will not get any residual "fishy smell"
                         You can obtain these type of boxes and supplies
free from Produce Markets, Restaurants or, if you have a local college or
university nearby, visit their Dining Halls.  Speak with the manager, unless
they have a deal with returning them to the distributors to recycle, they
may give them to you gladly..... We do, here at Cornell Dining.
                        Another thing that I do with glass is:  when I cut a
new piece of glass I make a 2" X 3" sample piece and write the mfg and stock
# on it, if I have it, of course, and include it in my growing sample
collection.  When I am planning new projects, I use the samples to help
select colors,  etc.
                        

                        
At 06:59 PM 1/28/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
>storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
>a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
>misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?  
>
>Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all the
>help I can get.
>
>Thanks all.
>
>Debi in Gunnison
>----
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>
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life, Cornell University
255-5960

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 10:00:51 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:59:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.75923.0>
References: <<m0vqhrq-0000x4C@daver.bungi.com>>
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Precedence: bulk



On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Glenna Rand wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
> was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
> teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
> your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
> And then cut your glass.  I have run out of this wonderful paper
> and the store has since closed.  Does anyone know where I can get
> more of this?
> 
No sources for that paper, but a suggestion: there is a gluestick
available that turns any paper into a post-it (removable) page. It works
verey well on glass and is available at any office supply store.


Mary


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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 10:53:07 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 13:47:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.84719.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.14182.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Harold De Vos wrote:
> 
> RE: Warner Crivellaro web page
> That has got to be the most confusing / worst looking page on the web! Yet,
> there is one thing I found very pleasing! Finally someone has tried to
> reproduce actual pictures of glass for those of us who have to mail order
> everything because of location.  I don't know how accurate these will be,
> but I have been looking for something like this for years! >> some
> indication besides those nondescript words like wispy amber which can be
> anything from a yellowish white to almost a chocolate brown and no
> indication as to density! I suggested this one time on a bulletin board, but
> three mail order companies said there was no way to reproduce the colors
> well enough,  either in print or via a graphic file. One fella tried to
> start a library of glass on a bulletin board on Compuserve, but after
> downloading his photos which took nearly a half hour, all I found were
> pictures of simple clear glass in simple primary colors!  I mean, why
> bother? That was almost 2 years ago tho', perhaps it has mushroomed into
> something better. Has anybody seen such a library out there?
> Harold De Vos
> Redware1@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I also had trouble at this new glass site.  The frames were annoying! When I
> > looked at the specials for Feb. the information was not all within the frame.
> >  I had to scroll left and right to read all the specials.  I thought by
> > printing it out that I would be able to read it better.  Even when it was
> > printed, some sections were cut off. Many sites have adjustable frames or a
> > "no frame" option to solve this problem.
> >
> > Diane
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well i know spectrum has thier glass online. though i really don't see
the problem, once you figure out how to scan the glass, all they have to
do is to bring it into photoshop and match the colors that way. 

i do agree, that site still needs more work, these are the things i like
to see changed:

1. too many frames with too many graphics.
2. get rid of that annoying scrolling text at the bottom of the screen,
some people think this a great thing and refuse to remove it, but
believe me it's very irritating.
3. i do like that they have pictures of their stuff, but it's very
cluttered, and hard to find things.
4. i did'nt notice if there was a place to order a catalog, not even the
tiny little one...

i did'nt look at the site a real long time, too slow...but at least it's
a step in the right direction, all catalogs should be online, so you can
at least check out what they got.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 10:59:26 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 13:53:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.85341.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.155337.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Phil Taylor wrote:
> 
> Hi, when I get ready to foil and solder my "Large Window" I am curious
> about the flux and soldering.  I've not done a large piece before (65"
> long by 19" high), and am not sure about a number of soldering issues.
>         Do I tack the top side and then flip it to tack the reverse
> side?  Or, because of the size, should I do a first bead around the top
> side and then flip it over?
>         How much flux should I use during soldering? (I use Glasflux
> liquid)
>         How do I remove the flux?
>         Would appreciate any help and comments.  Thanks, T. in Montana
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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well, i would first fill in all the lines with 50-50, then do my bead
work. use the same amount of flux you would for anything else, only
concentrate on like a square foot at a time. i use denatured alcohol to
do a general flux removal. after the entire front side is done, it will
have to be cleaned, try a bit of soap, and a bucket of water, unless you
can bring it outside and hose it off (if it's warm). you may also want
to patina at this step as well, so you don't have to flip it as much.
once clean then do the other side. 

to flip it easier you need (if you hav'nt already), to make a board with
a sraight edge on it. this board goes under the panel. then you get
another sheet a wood and put it on top, to form a sandwich, then with a
friend, slowly flip the sandwich over to reveal the back. resting it on
the boards prevents the panel from flexing.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 11:04:50 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 13:58:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.85831.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.14510.0>>
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Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote:
> 
> I saw a segment on a TV home craft show featuring the ever-present Vicki Pane
> using those mosaic 2-sided cutters.  It looked like using scissors on glass.
> The shapes she was cutting were intensionally unfinished, so I couldn't tell you
> how true they cut to a pattern.  She was just sort of snipping off corners of
> small sheets of glass in a very quick way.  Personally, I'm not going to get
> them.  I'll just stick with my glass cutters and plyers.
> 
> ----
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i personally might get them. i saw her use them on some other craft
shop, it made rather random cuts. however if you plan to make a bunch of
bite sized pieces of glass it may be a good thing. like when i did my
lamp, the tiny yellow border pieces in the base, i quickly snaped them
out using a high quality tile nippers. it save quite a bit of time this
way.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 11:08:05 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 14:01:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.9141.0>
References: <<m0vqhrq-0000x4C@daver.bungi.com>>
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Glenna Rand wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
> was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
> teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
> your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
> And then cut your glass.  I have run out of this wonderful paper
> and the store has since closed.  Does anyone know where I can get
> more of this?
> 
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i think i know what your talking about, it sounds like a magic sticker,
kind of a vinyl texture, and sticks to the glass. then you can easily
pull it off, and it would also be water proof. i don't know where they
sell it in sheets though, maybe a craft store. ask 'em there might be
another use for the stuff and it maybe selling as another product.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 11:18:01 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 14:23:49 +0000
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> well i know spectrum has thier glass online. though i really don't see
> the problem, once you figure out how to scan the glass, all they have to
> do is to bring it into photoshop and match the colors that way. 

The problem is, that even with the vaunted Photoshop, everything's an 
approximation. If you, Mike, and I were standing side by side, both 
looking at an identical piece of glass, we might differ on what its 
exact color would be called; is it greenish-blue or bluish-green? Is 
it aqua with white striping or teal with ivory striping? Once you 
photograph it, the film you use affects its colors, as do the 
camera's settings; when you scan the photo and call it into 
Photoshop, how do you decide which brightness level, hue setting or 
intensity of color saturation is "correct"?

Naturally, you would do all of those things according to your 
judgement, taste, and perception. So would I. But we might disagree 
on which result was most like the original piece of glass, since 
every step along the way is merely an approximation of the previous 
step ... and none of them would look like the actual glass itself.

That's both frustrating and a challenge to those of us who try to 
represent glass and glasswork as accurately and beautifully as 
possible, whether in print or on the web.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 11:32:26 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 14:26:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.92640.0>
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > well i know spectrum has thier glass online. though i really don't see
> > the problem, once you figure out how to scan the glass, all they have to
> > do is to bring it into photoshop and match the colors that way.
> 
> The problem is, that even with the vaunted Photoshop, everything's an
> approximation. If you, Mike, and I were standing side by side, both
> looking at an identical piece of glass, we might differ on what its
> exact color would be called; is it greenish-blue or bluish-green? Is
> it aqua with white striping or teal with ivory striping? Once you
> photograph it, the film you use affects its colors, as do the
> camera's settings; when you scan the photo and call it into
> Photoshop, how do you decide which brightness level, hue setting or
> intensity of color saturation is "correct"?
> 
> Naturally, you would do all of those things according to your
> judgement, taste, and perception. So would I. But we might disagree
> on which result was most like the original piece of glass, since
> every step along the way is merely an approximation of the previous
> step ... and none of them would look like the actual glass itself.
> 
> That's both frustrating and a challenge to those of us who try to
> represent glass and glasswork as accurately and beautifully as
> possible, whether in print or on the web.
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


though if you have the glass, you may be able to match up the color
fairly well, though one of the biggest problems is everybodies viedo
system is diffenrent, giving it a very different look. if anything
though after someone scans a picture they can at least (if they have to
right equipment that it), get rid of the whitish haze that occurs to a
photo after it's been scanned in...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 11:41:54 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 14:43:22 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970201143245.0068f70c@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I've used ordinary adhesive shelving paper, but obviously I didn't trace
the pattern onto it at once, rather I cut it piece by piece. I find it
easier to simply apply a little glue to the ordinary paper pattern I've
drawn and stick that on my glass to cut.

MJ


At 08:00 AM 2/1/97 PST, you wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
>was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
>teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
>your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
>And then cut your glass.  I have run out of this wonderful paper
>and the store has since closed.  Does anyone know where I can get
>more of this?
>
>
>-- 
>Glenna Rand
>gjr@bungi.com
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 12:52:48 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 14:51:45 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702012051.OAA09914@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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>That's both frustrating and a challenge to those of us who try to 
>represent glass and glasswork as accurately and beautifully as 
>possible, whether in print or on the web.
>
>Albert

Hi Albert,

I can only imagine how difficult it must be. Although only an amatuer with
decent equipement,for me photographing completed, installed works has always
been the least satisfying aspect of the overall project effort.

Len

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 13:31:48 1997
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From: "J. Hendershott" <jhendershott@macnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 13:38:38 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.53838.0>
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Glenna,

I think what you are looking for is called vasson (sp) paper. It comes
in 2'X3' sheets and holds up well when grinding. I get it from Cline
Glass in Portland, OR. Unfortunatly, I can't find my Cline's catalog
right now but they are listed in the "Source Guide", that Albert posted.
In a pinch, I also use white contact paper, but you have to be careful
not to strech it since it is vinyl.

Janie

> I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
> was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
> teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
> your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
> And then cut your glass.  I have run out of this wonderful paper
> and the store has since closed.  Does anyone know where I can get
> more of this?
> 
> --
> Glenna Rand
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 14:02:07 1997
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From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: irc chat info
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:43:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.84343.0>
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Can anyone pull up the info for the irc chat line.  I've got it running 
and can't remember where the glass people are.

Thanks

Phil7

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 14:12:48 1997
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From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: patterns
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:54:29 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.85429.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I've got a gripe.
I happen to like making panel lampshades. Many designs are of my own mind 
and hand.  But, I have paid for several (many really) books of various 
designs.  I find the author lacks in checking the integrity(spelling) of 
his/her workmanship.  In other words, the patterns are poorly drawn.  
Take for instance the last shade I made.  It looked good, but take two 
copies and lay face to face and it's off by 3/16 of an inch. Put that on 
a panel lamp and it looks bad, real bad.

Granted the author did all the design work. Much time and energy went 
into it, and for 8.95 it's not a steep price.  There isn't much of the 
written word in any of these pattern books, perhaps the buying public is 
too much the trusting soul. 

Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.

Phil7

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 14:24:13 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 17:18:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.121829.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.85429.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

Philip McRae wrote:
> 
> I've got a gripe.
> I happen to like making panel lampshades. Many designs are of my own mind
> and hand.  But, I have paid for several (many really) books of various
> designs.  I find the author lacks in checking the integrity(spelling) of
> his/her workmanship.  In other words, the patterns are poorly drawn.
> Take for instance the last shade I made.  It looked good, but take two
> copies and lay face to face and it's off by 3/16 of an inch. Put that on
> a panel lamp and it looks bad, real bad.
> 
> Granted the author did all the design work. Much time and energy went
> into it, and for 8.95 it's not a steep price.  There isn't much of the
> written word in any of these pattern books, perhaps the buying public is
> too much the trusting soul.
> 
> Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.
> 
> Phil7
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


just so we know to avoid the book, who wrote it?

whenever i buy a book i always see if there are pictures of all the
projects, this let's me see what color scheme they were thinking. also
it tells me that it went together ok, that it was tested.

some people are only good or sort of good, at designing, but they may
not even know how to do stained glass. like good 'ol ed sibbet jr., he
does alot of designs, most of them ugly, and he does'nt even do stained
glass, which of course explains alot.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 14:31:33 1997
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From: Paula Nelson <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 22:32:29 GMT
Message-ID: <199702012232.WAA19635@email6.starnetinc.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 02:23 PM 2/1/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> well i know spectrum has thier glass online. though i really don't see
>> the problem, once you figure out how to scan the glass, all they have to
>> do is to bring it into photoshop and match the colors that way. 
>
>The problem is, that even with the vaunted Photoshop, everything's an 
>approximation. If you, Mike, and I were standing side by side, both 
>looking at an identical piece of glass, we might differ on what its 
>exact color would be called;

*I* still believe that the only way to buy 'most' glass is to be able to see
it... I use black alot... not alot of variation there except in texture; but
for a background glass  - I gotta see it.

Paula Nelson
pjnjril@ngai.com

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 15:00:46 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:06:23 +0000
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> photographing completed, installed works has always
> been the least satisfying aspect of the overall project effort.

It's certainly a whole 'nuther art form, Len.

Albert

 
Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 15:23:16 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Where can one find LDPE?
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 18:24:46 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970201181740.00697340@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know where one can find clear LDPE -- Low Density PolyEthylene
film? I've read it's good for use in a glass mosaic application, but I have
no clue as to where to begin looking for it.

Thanks.

M.-J. Taylor

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 16:29:37 1997
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From: eldondo1@juno.com (Don A DeVoto)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: pattern paper
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 19:27:46 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.02746.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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We at St. Louis Stained Glass Studio use mylar it is not adhesive but we
put the pattern on with U-Stick,just a paste that comes in a lipstick
type container. The  one thing we do when possible is let the glued or
rather pasted patterns sit overnight as they will have a tendency to move
when first applied when you grind. Mylar is cheaper than any adhesive
paper clear to trace your pattern and when cut with foil shears and
ground to the edge you have a perfect fit (when you are working with a
white or light glass rub the edge of the paper with a pencil)  This will
help your not under cutting...              Good luck ,Don 
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 17:23:06 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 01:41:24 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

Hi Len (A) , Hilary and All,
Couldn't agree more...
There is something about carrying a colour with you in your"mind's 
eye" that no computer reproduction can ever replace. Getting one or 
several sample sets of glass may be cumbersome, but is worth it in 
the long run. Not only that, I often have to search/rummage at 
several suppliers for just THE right colour combination to go with 
another colour I have in mind. My pockets & bags are usually stuffed with 
glass samples I carry around with me for this eventuality - it's 
easier than carrying my computer around....
I can hold a REAL glass sample up into the light for comparisons. 
Doing the same with the computer gets kinda difficult and might be 
construed as a "threat""......
Then, as Len so rightly points out, there is the question "how will 
it score?"
But maybe I'm old -fashioned.....   :-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Len Wrote:
Good point Hilary, Anyone serious about S.G.should have sample sets at least
from the mfg'ers that they are most likely to buy from. A  photographic or
computer rendering is no substitute for the real thing, not only for color
but also for texture, degree of light transmission, and relative values to
other glasses that might be used in a project. I have even test scored some
samples to help me determine how much I should order based on anticipated
difficulty with the cutting. In addition, the more you look through the
samples, the images of the different glasses are retained in your *minds
eye*? and design and glass selection intergration for projects tends to
become more efficient and creative. Just my 0.02 worth

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 17:23:08 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 01:41:24 +0000
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Len,
Good Heavens, you just spoke the lament of my soul..... However hard 
I try, only too often do my photographs screw up. I have spoken to 
more professional photographers than I have had hot dinners. All of 
them agree just how fiendeshly difficult stained glass is to 
photograph. Landscape photos, animals in motion, animals still, 
human portraits - no problem. Some of them are even quite "accomplished".  
Get me in front of a stained glass (especially my own) and everything 
goes wrong....
I have a 15 year old Pentax ME Super, with 3 different lenses, 
filters and what have you.  If I pushed the camera, it might even 
make the tea.....The film I tend to use regularly is Kodak 100, 200 
or 400. The colour definitions just come out wrong.....
For instance, in my latest addition to my WEB-page (St.Francis 
Church) , the grapes in the 
basket are supposed to be champagne coloured (by the way - they were 
"fun" to cut and lead!!). They came out sort of non-descript....
Len, my heart is with you. I am obviously not alone (sob).
Any ideas folks??? What am I doing wrong???
Elisabeth 'n Toby (the latter looking splendiferous in HIS photo on 
the WEB :-(    )

Len wrote:
 with
decent equipement,for me photographing completed, installed works has always
been the least satisfying aspect of the overall project effort.


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 17:23:08 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 01:41:24 +0000
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Hi Philip,
Sorry,  couldn't resist your posting..... It's an old gripe of mine 
too..... (well documented too!)
The "Author" / "Artist" didn't happen to be called Ed Sibbett Jr, 
by any chance????  Double the price, and then add some and that's the 
price we pay in UK for what you describe......
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Phil wrote:
I've got a gripe.
I happen to like making panel lampshades. Many designs are of my own mind 
and hand.  But, I have paid for several (many really) books of various 
designs.  I find the author lacks in checking the integrity(spelling) of 
his/her workmanship.  In other words, the patterns are poorly drawn.  
Take for instance the last shade I made.  It looked good, but take two 
copies and lay face to face and it's off by 3/16 of an inch. Put that on 
a panel lamp and it looks bad, real bad.

Granted the author did all the design work. Much time and energy went 
into it, and for 8.95 it's not a steep price.  There isn't much of the 
written word in any of these pattern books, perhaps the buying public is 
too much the trusting soul. 

Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 18:26:12 1997
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From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Pattern Paper - Thanks!
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:25:32 PST
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Thanks to all of you for your tips and suggestions.


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 19:44:32 1997
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From: "Loveta Elmore" <loveta@arn.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 21:42:53 -0600
Message-ID: <199702020342.VAA10076@arnet.arn.net>
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Philip

What did you use to make your copies with?  Copy machine or by hand?

----------
> From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: patterns
> Date: Saturday, February 01, 1997 6:54 PM
> 
> I've got a gripe.
> I happen to like making panel lampshades. Many designs are of my own mind

> and hand.  But, I have paid for several (many really) books of various 
> designs.  I find the author lacks in checking the integrity(spelling) of 
> his/her workmanship.  In other words, the patterns are poorly drawn.  
> Take for instance the last shade I made.  It looked good, but take two 
> copies and lay face to face and it's off by 3/16 of an inch. Put that on 
> a panel lamp and it looks bad, real bad.
> 
> Granted the author did all the design work. Much time and energy went 
> into it, and for 8.95 it's not a steep price.  There isn't much of the 
> written word in any of these pattern books, perhaps the buying public is 
> too much the trusting soul. 
> 
> Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.
> 
> Phil7
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 20:03:32 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 22:55:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.175556.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.92640.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have contributed to this this list and rec.crafts.glass at times, but
I lurk more than contribute.
I add to the discourse, when I think I can add something, and will defer
to someone who seems to be better informed than I. I don't spend enough
time doing glass, as I unfortunately have too many hobbies and
interests. I brew my own beer, restore cars, have family who like to see
me in daylight, and a day job that takes away from my hobby time. But
,IMHO, there are some subjects I put my $0.02 in. One is glass
selection. I don't do as much work as Mike Savad and others who grace
this forum, but what I do, since I don't do volume, is very important to
me. I am not saying that anybody else's work is not as important, (I'm
not gunshy of flame wars, am I?), but glass selection is a major step to
me, because I basically do 'keeper' projects, or gifts. When I started
my first Tiffany style lamp, I spent a large part of a Saturday
afternoon selecting glass. If I am doing a window, or panel that
sunlight will show through, I will go to my local studio on a fairly
bright day, and take the sheets to the front of the shop, wher the
natural light shines, and hold the glass up and look through it, as
incandescent light has different properties than the sun. On the other
hand, if doing a lamp, I will use a bulb of similar wattage as the
fixture will hold, to mimic what the lamp will look like when done and
lit. I will hold sheets of colors that will be ajacent, or complement
each other to the light together, so I don't get something that clashes.
I am doing a Daffodil Tiffany Odessey lamp, and spent a half hour over
two sheets of yellow and white ring mottled, deciding which sheet would
work better for the bell ends of the trumpets.
All well and good, but what if I live a gazillion miles from the nearest
studio? If you are plan on doing a lot of projects, most glass companies
sell 'sampler packs' that will give you a better feel of what may not be
too descriptive a style, a la 'wispy'. This is not as good to me, as
there are variations among/within batches of glass, but it's better than
ordering blind. If you do seasonal suncatchers, red and white for Santa
Claus is not so critical. If I'm going to look at a window for a
significant portion of my life, I don't want to be second guessing my
glass choice. Some projects, it's not critcal, but for some glass choice
can 'make' the difference between, 'gee that's nice' and 'OH WOW'. I am
finishing a window panel that used $200 in glass and lead alone. This is
for my best friends anniversary. 

Is there a point to this rambling, you say? Yes, and the message is
Support your local shop. I learned in a small studio, and it is still
the first place I go. No I'm not a purist (a large discount on solder is
a large discount on solder). If I can't get what I need, I will shop
elsewhere, at one of his competitors, or mail order. He knows this. I'm
not knocking the people who run a business, and add a lot to this forum,
but your local shop is the one you probably go to when you've broken the
last piece of that color, or your iron tip burns out in the final
beading of a panel due to be picked up tomorrow. I see the same issues
in rec.crafts.brewing - who's got the best price on grain? But where do
you run when fermantation is stuck and you have $35 in specialty grain
sitting in a fermenter not looking like beer? If you don't support your
local shops, they may not be there when you need them. Buy mail order
when you use volume, but Support your local businesses.
Standard diclaimer - I am not an employee, nor spokesman, and opinions
expessed are mine, and apologies if I've offended
anyone                   
<Major snip below>
> > The problem is, that even with the vaunted Photoshop, everything's an
> > approximation. If you, Mike, and I were standing side by side, both
> > looking at an identical piece of glass, we might differ on what its
> > exact color would be called; is it greenish-blue or bluish-green? Is
> > it aqua with white striping or teal with ivory striping? Once you
> > photograph it, the film you use affects its colors, as do the
> > camera's settings; when you scan the photo and call it into
> > Photoshop, how do you decide which brightness level, hue setting or
> > intensity of color saturation is "correct"?
> >
> > Naturally, you would do all of those things according to your
> > judgement, taste, and perception. So would I. But we might disagree
> > on which result was most like the original piece of glass, since
> > every step along the way is merely an approximation of the previous
> > step ... and none of them would look like the actual glass itself.
> >
> > That's both frustrating and a challenge to those of us who try to
> > represent glass and glasswork as accurately and beautifully as
> > possible, whether in print or on the web.
> >
> > Albert
> >
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 20:15:10 1997
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X-Path: arn.net!loveta
From: "Loveta Elmore" <loveta@arn.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Photographing stained glass
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 21:51:20 -0600
Message-ID: <199702020351.VAA10897@arnet.arn.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

When taking pictures remember this tip,  never take pictures directly in to
sun.  In the morning take pictures in the west.  Never use a flash.  Try
it, you will be amazed at your results.  trying to get a person in the
photo adds unsolvable problems unless you are an expert photographer.

----------
> From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
> Date: Saturday, February 01, 1997 7:41 PM
> 
> Len,
> Good Heavens, you just spoke the lament of my soul..... However hard 
> I try, only too often do my photographs screw up. I have spoken to 
> more professional photographers than I have had hot dinners. All of 
> them agree just how fiendeshly difficult stained glass is to 
> photograph. Landscape photos, animals in motion, animals still, 
> human portraits - no problem. Some of them are even quite "accomplished".
 
> Get me in front of a stained glass (especially my own) and everything 
> goes wrong....
> I have a 15 year old Pentax ME Super, with 3 different lenses, 
> filters and what have you.  If I pushed the camera, it might even 
> make the tea.....The film I tend to use regularly is Kodak 100, 200 
> or 400. The colour definitions just come out wrong.....
> For instance, in my latest addition to my WEB-page (St.Francis 
> Church) , the grapes in the 
> basket are supposed to be champagne coloured (by the way - they were 
> "fun" to cut and lead!!). They came out sort of non-descript....
> Len, my heart is with you. I am obviously not alone (sob).
> Any ideas folks??? What am I doing wrong???
> Elisabeth 'n Toby (the latter looking splendiferous in HIS photo on 
> the WEB :-(    )
> 
> Len wrote:
>  with
> decent equipement,for me photographing completed, installed works has
always
> been the least satisfying aspect of the overall project effort.
> 
> 
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 20:36:36 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 20:56:49 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.135649.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.14513.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Hi Christie and George,
	Thanks for all the good tips on soldering, flux removal and 
turning the piece over.  To respond to one of your comments, yes, I am 
putting reinforcement in the piece.
	But, I am not familiar with homosote.  What is it?

Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote:

   I found
> that soldering a large panel on a piece of homosote works well in helping you
> flip the piece.  You tip one edge of the homosote up to verticle, rotate the
> stained glass piece around, put the stained glass back against the verticle
> homosote, and then lower the homosote back to horizontal.  This way the weight
> of the window is evenly supported by the homosote.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 20:46:56 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 21:07:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.1477.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.85341.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi Mike,
	Thanks for the excellent suggestions.  Will do the "sandwich" 
bit, it sounds safe.  T. in Montana
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 20:52:49 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 21:13:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.14131.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.15643.0>>
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Hi Mike,
	Thanks for the tips.  When I get to the soldering stage, I may 
be spending as much time on here as I am in the studio.  I appreciate 
your help.  T. in Montana
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 21:35:17 1997
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From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 00:16:52 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.161652.0>
References: <<199702020342.VAA10076@arnet.arn.net>>
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Loveta Elmore wrote:
> 
> Philip
> 
> What did you use to make your copies with?  Copy machine or by hand?
> I photocopied on a canon copier, and then hand copied. both worked out 
the same.  I've checked several patterns from the same book(hardly that) 
and most work just fine.  This one book was printed in 84' and must have 
been reprinted many, many times. I opened the bulk package at the store, 
so it's a late edition. Am I the first, or only the latest to complain?

phil7

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 23:09:05 1997
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From: Bubstah@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Subject: Small cartoons for stained glass
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 02:08:53 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.21853.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Where can I find a book of small cartoons to make stained glass sun catchers,

potpourri holders etc. for making and selling at craft fairs.
Thanking you all in  advance.
Bubstah
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 03:47:19 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Small cartoons for stained glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 06:53:01 +0000
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> Where can I find a book of small cartoons to make stained glass sun catchers,

Go to Inland's web site at  http://www.thestorefinder.com and click 
on the storefinder, then on your state. A list of stores in your area 
will appear ... most of them will carry the kind of books you're 
looking for.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 05:49:21 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: 02 Feb 97 08:46:06 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.13466.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

<The film I tend to use regularly is Kodak 100, 200 or 400. The colour
definitions just come out wrong.>

At the advice of a photographer friend of mine, I use Kodak 64T (that's for
Tungsten lights).  This is professional-level film which must be refridgerated
until used.  The slow speed give excellent detail so that even the most strange
and wonderful glass texture comes through true.  At his suggestion I do a
combination of back and front lighting in a studio setup.  I use multiple
spotlights, but angle them so a light glare is not visible.  My slides have
improved dramatically with this setup and the change in film.  Also at his
suggestion, I keep careful photography logs when trying a new setting.  I always
bracket anything photographed.  F-stop of 5.6 works best for both backlight and
combination back and front light.

For outdoor shots I use Fuji 100 outdoors film.  I try to photograph on an
overcast day, to give more even light.

Always use a tripod and remote shutter release mechanism to eliminate vibrations
when photographing.

Good luck...Christie

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 05:49:48 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: 02 Feb 97 08:46:14 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.134614.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Homosote is a compressed paper product sold in most home remodelling stores like
Home Depot.  It is sold in sheets similar to plywood.  Major difference is it is
easier to push holding pens into than plywood or corkboard.  My work is mostly
copper foil, and I use push pens and the Worton straight framing products which
use push pens, so I like the ease of the homosote.

...Christie

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 05:53:12 1997
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From: Paula Nelson <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 13:54:16 GMT
Message-ID: <199702021354.NAA28927@email6.starnetinc.com>
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At 08:56 PM 2/1/97 -0700, you wrote:
>But, I am not familiar with homosote.  What is it?

Ceiling tile <G>. Go to your local large hardware store and pick up a sheet
(usually 24x48inches), price runs about $2.50+/- @... cut it larger than the
size of the project and VERY easy to use pushpins and morton strips - or
your own support system. They are not hardy beasties - but I've used one for
several 20x24 projects with very little disintegration...


Paula Nelson
pjnjril@ngai.com


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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 05:58:33 1997
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From: Paula Nelson <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 13:59:33 GMT
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Some how the first sentence fell off this when I sent it...

Homosote is plywood, I have several of different sizes. But there's
something else that you could look into. Ceiling tile <G>. Go to your local
large hardware store and pick up a sheet (usually 24x48inches), price runs
about $2.50+/- @... cut it larger than the size of the project and VERY easy
to use pushpins and morton strips - or your own support system. They are not
hardy beasties - but I've used one for several 20x24 projects with very
little disintegration...

>But, I am not familiar with homosote.  What is it?


Paula
____________________________________________________________

Paula Nelson                  
pjnjril@ngai.com
http://pwp.starnetinc.com/pjnjril/uitland.htm
(708) 399-6791 VoiceMail Pager

"Life is too short to work weak dogs"
____________________________________________________________
"No slack - but that doesn't make us bad people" SCPCC 13-96

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 06:41:21 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 09:35:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.43526.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.175556.0>>
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shyguy wrote:
> 
> I have contributed to this this list and rec.crafts.glass at times, but
> I lurk more than contribute.
> I add to the discourse, when I think I can add something, and will defer
> to someone who seems to be better informed than I. I don't spend enough
> time doing glass, as I unfortunately have too many hobbies and
> interests. I brew my own beer, restore cars, have family who like to see
> me in daylight, and a day job that takes away from my hobby time. But
> ,IMHO, there are some subjects I put my $0.02 in. One is glass
> selection. I don't do as much work as Mike Savad and others who grace
> this forum, but what I do, since I don't do volume, is very important to
> me. I am not saying that anybody else's work is not as important, (I'm
> not gunshy of flame wars, am I?), but glass selection is a major step to
> me, because I basically do 'keeper' projects, or gifts. When I started
> my first Tiffany style lamp, I spent a large part of a Saturday
> afternoon selecting glass. If I am doing a window, or panel that
> sunlight will show through, I will go to my local studio on a fairly
> bright day, and take the sheets to the front of the shop, wher the
> natural light shines, and hold the glass up and look through it, as
> incandescent light has different properties than the sun. On the other
> hand, if doing a lamp, I will use a bulb of similar wattage as the
> fixture will hold, to mimic what the lamp will look like when done and
> lit. I will hold sheets of colors that will be ajacent, or complement
> each other to the light together, so I don't get something that clashes.
> I am doing a Daffodil Tiffany Odessey lamp, and spent a half hour over
> two sheets of yellow and white ring mottled, deciding which sheet would
> work better for the bell ends of the trumpets.
> All well and good, but what if I live a gazillion miles from the nearest
> studio? If you are plan on doing a lot of projects, most glass companies
> sell 'sampler packs' that will give you a better feel of what may not be
> too descriptive a style, a la 'wispy'. This is not as good to me, as
> there are variations among/within batches of glass, but it's better than
> ordering blind. If you do seasonal suncatchers, red and white for Santa
> Claus is not so critical. If I'm going to look at a window for a
> significant portion of my life, I don't want to be second guessing my
> glass choice. Some projects, it's not critcal, but for some glass choice
> can 'make' the difference between, 'gee that's nice' and 'OH WOW'. I am
> finishing a window panel that used $200 in glass and lead alone. This is
> for my best friends anniversary.
> 
> Is there a point to this rambling, you say? Yes, and the message is
> Support your local shop. I learned in a small studio, and it is still
> the first place I go. No I'm not a purist (a large discount on solder is
> a large discount on solder). If I can't get what I need, I will shop
> elsewhere, at one of his competitors, or mail order. He knows this. I'm
> not knocking the people who run a business, and add a lot to this forum,
> but your local shop is the one you probably go to when you've broken the
> last piece of that color, or your iron tip burns out in the final
> beading of a panel due to be picked up tomorrow. I see the same issues
> in rec.crafts.brewing - who's got the best price on grain? But where do
> you run when fermantation is stuck and you have $35 in specialty grain
> sitting in a fermenter not looking like beer? If you don't support your
> local shops, they may not be there when you need them. Buy mail order
> when you use volume, but Support your local businesses.
> Standard diclaimer - I am not an employee, nor spokesman, and opinions
> expessed are mine, and apologies if I've offended
> anyone
> <Major snip below>


well generally that's how it's done. the photo's online are, of course,
a basic representaion of whats out there. i personally like chooing my
own glass at my local store. evern though alot of companies will send
out a nice selection, i really only trust my own eye. 

choosing colors is really the most important part of stained glass, it
seperates proffesionals from novices. for the balloon panel of mine it
must of took over 30 hours (all together), to pick just the right
colors. and if i were to do the whole panel again, i'd choose different
colors, (for the grassy areas anyway). 

it's not just the colors but the shades, and how you use them. you can
always tell a professional (let's say lamp), piece from one you buy in
a  hardware or lamp store by seeing how the shades were done. if you
looked at a flower, every single piece should have it's own character or
place. it should have a look of dimension, the darker piece should be on
one side, the lighter on the other. every piece should be looked at as
if it was the center of attention. so the next time anyone looks at a
lamp, or asks how the colors got where they are, you could tell them it
was'nt by accident.  btw this last paragraph was'nt aimed for anyone,
it's just for pleasant reading...or something like that...


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 06:42:32 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 09:36:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.43644.0>
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Phil Taylor wrote:
> 
> Hi Christie and George,
>         Thanks for all the good tips on soldering, flux removal and
> turning the piece over.  To respond to one of your comments, yes, I am
> putting reinforcement in the piece.
>         But, I am not familiar with homosote.  What is it?
> 
> Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote:
> 
>    I found
> > that soldering a large panel on a piece of homosote works well in helping you
> > flip the piece.  You tip one edge of the homosote up to verticle, rotate the
> > stained glass piece around, put the stained glass back against the verticle
> > homosote, and then lower the homosote back to horizontal.  This way the weight
> > of the window is evenly supported by the homosote.
> ----
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homosote is a comosite material made with recycled newspaper and
probabaly some kind of binder.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 06:47:09 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 09:41:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.4412.0>
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Phil Taylor wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike,
>         Thanks for the excellent suggestions.  Will do the "sandwich"
> bit, it sounds safe.  T. in Montana
> ----
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just don't let your piece slide out....:)

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 06:57:30 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 09:51:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.45133.0>
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Paula Nelson wrote:
> 
> Some how the first sentence fell off this when I sent it...
> 
> Homosote is plywood, I have several of different sizes. But there's
> something else that you could look into. Ceiling tile <G>. Go to your local
> large hardware store and pick up a sheet (usually 24x48inches), price runs
> about $2.50+/- @... cut it larger than the size of the project and VERY easy
> to use pushpins and morton strips - or your own support system. They are not
> hardy beasties - but I've used one for several 20x24 projects with very
> little disintegration...
> 
> >But, I am not familiar with homosote.  What is it?
> 
> Paula
> ____________________________________________________________
> 
> Paula Nelson
> pjnjril@ngai.com
> http://pwp.starnetinc.com/pjnjril/uitland.htm
> (708) 399-6791 VoiceMail Pager
> 
> "Life is too short to work weak dogs"
> ____________________________________________________________
> "No slack - but that doesn't make us bad people" SCPCC 13-96
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


homosote is'nt plywood. plywood is plywood (made up from veneers of wood
crisscrossing each other. then glued and heat bonded together. where as
homosote ia a really thick news paper...

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 08:45:33 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:49:05 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.9495.0>
References: <<1997Jan29.41412.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Debi Overton wrote:
> >
> > I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
> > storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
> > a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
> > misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?
> >
> > Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all the
> > help I can get.
> >
> > Thanks all.
> >
> > Debi in Gunnison
> > ----
> >
>

You also may want to put some vertical shelves underneath your table for 
glass storage..Just remember to give yourself some leg room.
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 08:52:17 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: news stuff on page
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:55:50 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.95550.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970129192754.006972e0@pop.bridge.net>>
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M.-J. wrote:
> 
> Hear, hear!
> 
> Responses at the top, please! It makes going through mail so much faster!
> 
> MJ
> 

> >>

I know I was guilty of this.  My PC is new to me, and in the beginning I 
did not know how to delete.. So I feel that there might be more like me 
out there, and the idea of just replying was new and yet, deleting.  
Also,  a few of you helped me through my wrap arounds...so don't be 
critaical, maybe a little friendly PC advise might be helpful.
> 
> >
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 08:55:49 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:59:29 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.95929.0>
References: <<1997Jan30.12211.0>>
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Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote:
> 
> M.J.    Mosaics is not off topic, as it is another method of doing stained glass.
> I do mosaics.  Just finished constructing a table with a stained glass mosaic
> pattern on the top based on a quilt pattern.  Turned out quite nice, and is now
> for sale at a local art gallery.  If you have any questions, just ask.
> ...Christie
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassThat sounds great...Hope to do my first mosaic in the springtime..
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:03:54 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:07:26 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.10726.0>
References: <<199701310947.BAA05738@aphex.direct.ca>>
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kmccullo@direct.ca wrote:
> 
> >M. Savad wrote:
> >>
> >> Linda Campbell wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On the subject of soldering.
> 


I have a little advise when soldering...If you are  a prescription eye 
glass wearer while you are soldering, use your older glasses...lost a 
pair of new glasses, the lenses became al scratched up, i do blame it on 
the solder fumes or vapors.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:07:12 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:10:42 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.101042.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.13139.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote:
> 
> Karin asked:
> <What do you use as a grout ?>
> 

Thanks for the info on buying the grout at the home improvement store..

> Hi there Karin.  The techniques of stained glass and tile mosaics are the same.
> I use regular bathroom tile grout that you can purchase in any home improvement
> center.  I prefer the non-sanded version in white.  I have used the sanded grout
> for plant pots, since it is more 'outdoorsy' than the fine, finished look of the
> non-sanded grout.  Don't be fooled by the so called "special grout for stained
> glass".  Just pick up a box or bag of grout powder from the home improvement
> store.  Don't use the grout that is already mixed, as it dries out in the
> container and you waste a bunch of grout.  If you purchase the powdered grout,
> you just mix up a lot for what you need.  If you stick with white you can then
> add color to the mix to change up the grout color.
> 
> Have fun!....Christie
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:14:19 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:17:57 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.101757.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.74223.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Redware1@aol.com wrote:
> 
> On this subject of mosaics, has anyone tried the mosaic glass cutter? It has
> 2 cutting wheels and is supposed to "easily nip glass into geometric shapes".
> It seems easier than ordering the Italian glass smalti which I last heard was
> available from one person in the U.S.
> 
> Diane
>

Yes, I use it.. Also i keep it at my cutting table, I nip off  the areas 
 of my glass is the break line was not close to the pattern. this saves 
me from grinding all that.


 ----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:24:28 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:28:09 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.10289.0>
References: <<m0vqhrq-0000x4C@daver.bungi.com>>
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Glenna Rand wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
> was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
> teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
> your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
> And then cut your glass.  I have run out of this wonderful paper
> and the store has since closed.  Does anyone know where I can get
> more of this?
> 
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com


Do you think you can use sticky back contact paper that you buy in the 
home sections (for shelve liners) in the retail stores like K-Mart or 
Walmart.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:31:57 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:35:30 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.103530.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.121829.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Philip McRae wrote:
> >
> > I've got a gripe.
> > I happen to like making panel lampshades. Many designs are of my own mind
> > and hand.  But, I have paid for several (many really) books of various
> > designs.  I find the author lacks in checking the integrity(spelling) of
> > his/her workmanship.  In other words, the patterns are poorly drawn.
> > Take for instance the last shade I made.  It looked good, but take two
> > copies and lay face to face and it's off by 3/16 of an inch. Put that on
> > a panel lamp and it looks bad, real bad.
> >
> > Granted the author did all the design work. Much time and energy went
> > into it, and for 8.95 it's not a steep price.  There isn't much of the
> > written word in any of these pattern books, perhaps the buying public is
> > too much the trusting soul.
> >
> > Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.
> >
> > Phil7


I don't trust any pattern book for exact size.. Before i make my project 
I always check for accuracy...even told my students to do that.. You are 
right, very frustrating when they don't fit.
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> just so we know to avoid the book, who wrote it?
> 
> whenever i buy a book i always see if there are pictures of all the
> projects, this let's me see what color scheme they were thinking. also
> it tells me that it went together ok, that it was tested.
> 
> some people are only good or sort of good, at designing, but they may
> not even know how to do stained glass. like good 'ol ed sibbet jr., he
> does alot of designs, most of them ugly, and he does'nt even do stained
> glass, which of course explains alot.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:33:10 1997
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From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 12:32:48 -0500
Message-ID: <9702021732.AA12471@water.waterw.com>
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Elisabeth wrote,
>Good Heavens, you just spoke the lament of my soul..... However hard 
>I try, only too often do my photographs screw up. I have spoken to 
>more professional photographers than I have had hot dinners. >>

We have found that hiring a professional is the "best" way to go.  No matter
how hard we try our photos just come out ok.  As you can tell from our Web
Site I am sure you would be able to tell the difference from the
professional photos.
There are just not enough hours in the day to learn everything...that is why
there are professional  photographers. Sort of a trade. I would never expect
them to be able to create what we do either.  And at this point we really
don't have the time to sit on site and wait for the right lighting either.
Or do we care to.  


How are you arrangements for your trip coming???  My offer still
stands....we could meet and chat about some of the great things in Chartre
you should not miss!!!  
Hope all is well.

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:45:55 1997
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From: Connie Gleason <cgleason@jeffco.k12.co.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: copper foil
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 10:43:56 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.24356.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Mandalay Middle School
Precedence: bulk

Hi,
I'm new to the boards and I have appreciated all these great helpful 
hints.  I have done glass for about 10 years, but I have been away from 
it for a couple of years due to many moves around the country.  I am 
starting up again.  I need to know if my copper foil (which I have a lot 
of)  is still good.  It has been packed in a box in the basement, much 
has been opened but kept in a plastic bag.  Is it still good?  Do I 
chance using it?  Also there was someone on the boards who used Corel 
Draw to design patterns - does anyone remember who it was?  Does anyone 
know about this new computer stained glass designing software?  Is it 
like Corel Draw?   Thanks for  any info...  I am really enjoying 
receiving all these messages and info.  Debbie are you from Gunnison, CO? 
 If you are, you are not far from me!
       Thanks, Connie
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 10:19:05 1997
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From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 13:18:42 -0500
Message-ID: <9702021818.AA14827@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Connie wrote

,,.  I need to know if my copper foil (which I have a lot 
>of)  is still good.  It has been packed in a box in the basement, much 
>has been opened but kept in a plastic bag.  Is it still good?.. 

Connie,

Why would you chance it??? I would chuck it all and start from the
beginning.  Like the ole saying goes..."When in doubt, throw it out!".

I have used a couple of the "New" design programs. I haven't used the new
Corel Draw so I don't know how similar they are.  But I do know that the new
programs are more like CAD programs than Corel Draw is.
If I can answer any questions about the new programs just let me know

I was wondering how close to Olathe you are?  My brother-in-law has a ranch
there.
In fact its on Gunnison Road.


From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 10:23:07 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 12:22:12 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702021822.MAA12113@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I had the opportunity to talk to a world class mandolin maker once at a
party and of course the discussion eventually turned to craftsmanship. A
very humble guy with a refreshing lack of ego for a person of his status
said more or less that craftsmanship is a series of properly sequenced steps
none of which in and of themselves are difficult. The thing being to know
what they are and giving them all equal attention however mundane or
inconsequential some of them might seem. The result being that the whole
becomes greater then the sum of its parts.

Just some sunday morning blabber :-)

Len




 every piece should be looked at as
>if it was the center of attention. so the next time anyone looks at a
>lamp, or asks how the colors got where they are, you could tell them it
>was'nt by accident.  btw this last paragraph was'nt aimed for anyone,
>it's just for pleasant reading...or something like that...
>
>
>---Mike Savad

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 12:06:01 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:07:30 -0800
Message-ID: <199702022005.MAA01689@aphex.direct.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I never considered that solder fumes or vapors could possibly damage your
glasses. Your suggestion is a good one. I always wear these gorgeous looking
eye protective things that kind of cup the forehead & cheek bone and also
protect the sides of your eyes. I mean"I always" wear them when I'm doing
any glass work, they are a bit of a pain to get use too, but eyes are too
important to not wear anything.
Karin
>
>I have a little advise when soldering...If you are  a prescription eye 
>glass wearer while you are soldering, use your older glasses...lost a 
>pair of new glasses, the lenses became al scratched up, i do blame it on 
>the solder fumes or vapors.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 12:32:31 1997
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From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: G.A.S. Conference
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:31:50 -0500
Message-ID: <9702022031.AA21913@water.waterw.com>
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                     Global Glass

Just wondering if anyone will be attending the G.A.S. conference in Tucson.
Hard to believe that this will be the 27th one already.

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 12:36:52 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 15:31:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.10313.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.10726.0>>
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Gloria wrote:
> 
> kmccullo@direct.ca wrote:
> >
> > >M. Savad wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Linda Campbell wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > On the subject of soldering.
> >
> 
> I have a little advise when soldering...If you are  a prescription eye
> glass wearer while you are soldering, use your older glasses...lost a
> pair of new glasses, the lenses became al scratched up, i do blame it on
> the solder fumes or vapors.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


fumes don't scratch anything, if anything scratched them up it was you
who may have tried wiping the lens off without soap and water. i have to
wear glasses to see, and it is a problem, if anything you know what your
breathing in. after i'm done soldering, i wash everything off, hands
arms, neck, face, lens, etc.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 12:40:48 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 15:35:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.10351.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.24356.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Connie Gleason wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I'm new to the boards and I have appreciated all these great helpful
> hints.  I have done glass for about 10 years, but I have been away from
> it for a couple of years due to many moves around the country.  I am
> starting up again.  I need to know if my copper foil (which I have a lot
> of)  is still good.  It has been packed in a box in the basement, much
> has been opened but kept in a plastic bag.  Is it still good?  Do I
> chance using it?  Also there was someone on the boards who used Corel
> Draw to design patterns - does anyone remember who it was?  Does anyone
> know about this new computer stained glass designing software?  Is it
> like Corel Draw?   Thanks for  any info...  I am really enjoying
> receiving all these messages and info.  Debbie are you from Gunnison, CO?
>  If you are, you are not far from me!
>        Thanks, Connie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


if the foil sticks, it's still good. if it comes off after you apply it
(to clean glass), chuck it and buy some new stuff. you may have to do
that to some of your chemicals to.

corel draw is a good place for patterns, soon i'm going to show a bunch
of suncatchers i made from it, on my page. the graphics do need some
tweeking though.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 12:53:47 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: a few more lamps
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 97 12:50:19 -0500
Message-ID: <199702022053.MAA16916@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

A few more lamps have been added to the "studio"

When time or desire allows, take a look.........enjoy......H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 12:55:46 1997
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From: Marissa McLaughlin <marissam@mindspring.com>
To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM
Subject: how can I permanantly mark glass?
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:57:18 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970202205718.0067b4c4@pop.mindspring.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Help!!  I need to permanantly draw tiny eyes, nose & mouth on a piece of
glass. How can I do this?  Are there decals for this?  Glass paint?


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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 13:08:26 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: how can I permanantly mark glass?
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 16:02:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.11224.0>
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Marissa McLaughlin wrote:
> 
> Help!!  I need to permanantly draw tiny eyes, nose & mouth on a piece of
> glass. How can I do this?  Are there decals for this?  Glass paint?
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i use an electric engraver (the vibrating kind). first i draw the
detail  with marker, then engrave it, then color it with either marker
or a dark paint and fill in the lines. or you can use deka gloss paint.
to make tiny eyes use a really small diameter rod, dip it in, and make
an eye.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 14:00:01 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:05:41 +0000
Message-ID: <199702022159.QAA23061@ns.computer.net>
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> fumes don't scratch anything

Well, some of them will *etch glass. Depends on what sorta fumes they 
are.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 14:13:45 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 17:07:52 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.12752.0>
References: <<199702022159.QAA23061@ns.computer.net>>
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > fumes don't scratch anything
> 
> Well, some of them will *etch glass. Depends on what sorta fumes they
> are.
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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well, ok fine, solder fumes should'nt scratch anything... etching acid
should only etch glass though. most glasses now or either a plastic or
poly carbonate.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 15:43:55 1997
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From: Marissa McLaughlin <marissam@mindspring.com>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: how can I permanantly mark glass?
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 15:45:08 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970202234508.00672560@pop.mindspring.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Mike.  I used a deka paint pen & it worked great.


At 04:02 PM 2/2/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Marissa McLaughlin wrote:
>> 
>> Help!!  I need to permanantly draw tiny eyes, nose & mouth on a piece of
>> glass. How can I do this?  Are there decals for this?  Glass paint?
>> 
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>i use an electric engraver (the vibrating kind). first i draw the
>detail  with marker, then engrave it, then color it with either marker
>or a dark paint and fill in the lines. or you can use deka gloss paint.
>to make tiny eyes use a really small diameter rod, dip it in, and make
>an eye.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>-- 
>Mike's Stained Glass
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>
>New Pages Added:
>
> - More Tips and Techniques
> - How to Fix Mistakes
> - The History of My Shop
> - My Adventures of Mold Making
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 17:16:12 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 20:15:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.151540.0>
References: <<199702022159.QAA23061@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:

> 
> > fumes don't scratch anything
> 
> Well, some of them will *etch glass. Depends on what sorta fumes they 
> are.
> Albert

It also depends on what type of coating was on the lens. I can tell you
that my anti-reflective coating is kinda delicate.

Mary


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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 17:42:51 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Marissa McLaughlin <marissam@mindspring.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: how can I permanantly mark glass?
Date: 02 Feb 97 20:38:56 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.13856.0>
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<Help!!  I need to permanantly draw tiny eyes, nose & mouth on a piece of
glass. How can I do this?  Are there decals for this?  Glass paint?>

Yes, glass paint when fused into the glass using a kiln, is the way to go for
permanancy.  Don't own a kiln?  Don't have a kiln as large as the piece to be
fired?  Other problems?  Try etching the pattern to be made permanate using a
dremel or other etching tool, and then painting the etched line.  Not totally
permanate, but pretty darn close.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 18:37:12 1997
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From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:51:07 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.12517.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.103530.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Gloria,

How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we 
publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis 
would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints, 
and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.

Phil7

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 18:38:57 1997
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From: "Loveta Elmore" <loveta@arn.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re:Accurate lamp patterns
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 20:37:19 -0600
Message-ID: <199702030237.UAA11364@arnet.arn.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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After years of teaching classes I never use a copy machine when dealing
with something that must fit. like a lamp.  Especially with angles.  To get
an idea of what happens, check angle on original pattern and then check
angles on patterns after you have copied it on a copy machine.   Off 1/32
or 1/64 of an inch is a disaster.  Many times it is more than that. 

Never assume a pattern out of a book is accurate, always measure angles and
redraw if need be.

Hope this helps
Loveta


----------
> From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: patterns
> Date: Sunday, February 02, 1997 2:16 AM
> 
> Loveta Elmore wrote:
> > 
> > Philip
> > 
> > What did you use to make your copies with?  Copy machine or by hand?
> > I photocopied on a canon copier, and then hand copied. both worked out 
> the same.  I've checked several patterns from the same book(hardly that) 
> and most work just fine.  This one book was printed in 84' and must have 
> been reprinted many, many times. I opened the bulk package at the store, 
> so it's a late edition. Am I the first, or only the latest to complain?
> 
> phil7
> 
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 19:26:56 1997
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From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:27:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.132731.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.24356.0>>
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Debbie are you from Gunnison, CO?
>  If you are, you are not far from me!

Hi Connie,
Yep, I am.  Where are you from?  -Debi
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 19:28:54 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 19:30:19 -0800
Message-ID: <199702030328.TAA25349@aphex.direct.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Phil Wrote:
>
>How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we 
>publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis 
>would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints, 
>and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.
>
>Don't be so sure. Someone would find a reason to get their knickers in a knot. 
>Actually, this group is just an extended family. 
Karin  
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 19:29:04 1997
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From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:29:58 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.132958.0>
References: <<9702021818.AA14827@water.waterw.com>>
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> I was wondering how close to Olathe you are?  My brother-in-law has a ranch
> there.
> In fact its on Gunnison Road.

I'm about 75 miles from Olathe.  I go through there on my way to the
nearest good glass shop.  -Debi
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 20:29:50 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Photographing stained glass
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:31:07 -0800
Message-ID: <199702030429.UAA11378@orb.direct.ca>
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Elizabeth wrote:
>When taking pictures remember this tip,  never take pictures directly in to
>sun.  In the morning take pictures in the west.  Never use a flash.  Try
>it, you will be amazed at your results.  trying to get a person in the
>photo adds unsolvable problems unless you are an expert photographer.
>
>I have a Pentax also which I've had since the mid 60's with spotmatik lens
and I use a UV filter. I can shoot thru glass without getting the
reflection.I also use Fuji film instead of Kodak. Kodak has a red/blue hue
to it, so it's not very good if your taking pictures of subjects  which have
a lot of blue tint. Something else that can make a difference is the
processing or developing of the film, which you probably don't have a lot of
control over.   
Karin

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 20:44:21 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mosaics ... uneven "tessarae"
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 23:45:59 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970202234217.0069fd94@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

OK ... so a question ...or 2 on mosaics, please.

I'm making a piece to fit in the wall of an existing shower. I want to use
tile and marble, and perhaps glass, too. My concern is, all these materials
are a different thickness. I plan an indirect method of construction,
placing the pieces face down on clear contact. Then I plan to add thinset
to the back to make a level surface and allow that to dry before I add
another layer of thinset to the wall and apply the mosaic?

Am I anywhere near the right track???????? Is thinset the wrong material
for this leveling?  Any feedback warmly welcomed!

Thanks.

MJ



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 21:08:36 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 21:28:24 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.142824.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.4412.0>>
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Hi,  Like two-week-old salami?    T. in Montana



> >         Thanks for the excellent suggestions.  Will do the "sandwich"
> > bit, it sounds safe.  T. in Montana 
> just don't let your piece slide out....:)
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 21:09:21 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mosaics ... uneven "tessarae"
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:11:04 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970202234217.006a0b10@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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OK ... so a question ...or 2 on mosaics, please.

I'm making a piece to fit in the wall of an existing shower. I want to use
tile and marble, and perhaps glass, too. My concern is, all these materials
are a different thickness. I plan an indirect method of construction,
placing the pieces face down on clear contact. Then I plan to add thinset
to the back to make a level surface and allow that to dry before I add
another layer of thinset to the wall and apply the mosaic?

Am I anywhere near the right track???????? Is thinset the wrong material
for this leveling?  Any feedback warmly welcomed!

Thanks.

MJ



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 21:13:49 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 21:33:40 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.143340.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.12517.0>>
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Philip,  I'm all for it.  Who wants to be the one to gather them all and 
then distribute them?  You?   T. in Montana




Philip McRae wrote:
> 
> Gloria,
> 
> How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we
> publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis
> would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints,
> and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.
> 
> Phil7
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 21:33:00 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: AZ and TX places
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:32:37 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.193237.0>
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Hello,

I will be in Scottsdale, Arizona March 24th through the 29th and in Austin,
TX from March 31st through the 5th.  Does anyone know of any shows, exhibits
or the like that I could attend?  

Thanks,
Susie
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 21:53:40 1997
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From: AAnder2369@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: DR Glass & Others
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:53:27 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.195327.0>
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Hello Everyone,

   Can anybody help me in locating DR Glass, the company that used to make
these are now out of business I think, and I really need them badly I need
about 300 sq.ft. of medium green. Thank You.

Oh also, does anybody know of used tempering and beveling machines for sale?

Thanks again.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 22:49:29 1997
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From: Paula Nelson <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 06:50:12 GMT
Message-ID: <199702030650.GAA12543@email6.starnetinc.com>
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Mike Savad wrote:

>homosote is'nt plywood. plywood is plywood (made up from veneers of wood
>crisscrossing each other. then glued and heat bonded together. where as
>homosote ia a really thick news paper...

Ya' know... I thought that was odd... I've been doing this for 6+ years and
I call plywood - plywood too <G>. But the instructor of my graduate level SG
class insisted that homosote was plywood. (?) I always thought it was the
stuff that I called 'ceiling tile' but I just figured I'd missed something
somewhere. Thanks for the correction... now I'm wondering about "her" <laugh>.

Paula Nelson
pjnjril@ngai.com

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 03:59:21 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 07:04:42 +0000
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> >How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we 
> >publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis 
> >would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints, 
> >and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.

"Ole' Al Lewis"? !!  Is that ageism at work?  Or do you just know how 
*old I am? <g> (16-year-old boy trapped in 53-year-old body!)

> >Don't be so sure. Someone would find a reason to get their knickers in a knot. 
> >Actually, this group is just an extended family. 

Quite right; that's why we quarrel from time to time. <s>

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 06:39:20 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:33:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.43323.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.151540.0>>
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maruca@netaxs.com wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> >
> > > fumes don't scratch anything
> >
> > Well, some of them will *etch glass. Depends on what sorta fumes they
> > are.
> > Albert
> 
> It also depends on what type of coating was on the lens. I can tell you
> that my anti-reflective coating is kinda delicate.
> 
> Mary
> 
> ----
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acually it's pretty strong stuff chemical wise, i once removes speckles
of automotive paint, with prepsall (like naptha). and it cleaned it
better than any soap. but of course you just look at it wrong and it
scratches.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 06:48:34 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:42:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.44238.0>
References: <<199702030650.GAA12543@email6.starnetinc.com>>
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Paula Nelson wrote:
> 
> Mike Savad wrote:
> 
> >homosote is'nt plywood. plywood is plywood (made up from veneers of wood
> >crisscrossing each other. then glued and heat bonded together. where as
> >homosote ia a really thick news paper...
> 
> Ya' know... I thought that was odd... I've been doing this for 6+ years and
> I call plywood - plywood too <G>. But the instructor of my graduate level SG
> class insisted that homosote was plywood. (?) I always thought it was the
> stuff that I called 'ceiling tile' but I just figured I'd missed something
> somewhere. Thanks for the correction... now I'm wondering about "her" <laugh>.
> 
> Paula Nelson
> pjnjril@ngai.com
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


actually ceiling tile is another material altogether. homosote would be
to heavy. though it can be used as a very basic insulation, or a bulitan
board. in some houses they put sheets of this stuff up, then put burlap
to "pretty it up" (as if burlap was ever nice to look at in the first
place). the result, a giant dart board, a huge bullitin board, and it'll
never show up with any holes in it.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 06:50:12 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:51:58 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970203012613.00687b38@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Where can this cutter be found, please?

MJ

Oh, and  I *think* smalti can be had through Dal-Tile ...
they do have two types of glass mosaic tile ... one is called Kolorines,
I'm not sure about the other, but they have a lot of variety.

<snip>>> 2 cutting wheels and is supposed to "easily nip glass into
geometric shapes".

>> It seems easier than ordering the Italian glass smalti which I last
heard was available from one person in the U.S.


>> 
>> Diane
>>
>
>Yes, I use it.. Also i keep it at my cutting table, I nip off  the areas 
> of my glass is the break line was not close to the pattern. this saves 
>me from grinding all that.

<snip>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 07:04:13 1997
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From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Small cartoons for stained glass
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:03:33 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702031503.KAA24948@digital.net>
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You can also visit Art Glass World's list of retailers at
http://www.artglassworld.com/dlist.html, sponsored by the Stained Glass
News.  While you're there check out Stained Glass Quarterly's new special
feature article: Protective Glazing for Stained Glass Windows.  This highly
informative article examines the findings of Inspired Partnerships's study
of protective glazing in the stianed glass industry.

Jennifer

At 06:53 AM 2/2/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> Where can I find a book of small cartoons to make stained glass sun catchers,
>
>Go to Inland's web site at  http://www.thestorefinder.com and click 
>on the storefinder, then on your state. A list of stores in your area 
>will appear ... most of them will carry the kind of books you're 
>looking for.
>
>Albert
>
>Albert Lewis, Executive Director
>International Guild of Glass Artists
>A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
>http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 07:35:18 1997
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From: StndGlass1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:34:43 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.53443.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


<<Where can this cutter be found, please?>>

We carry the mosaic cutter.  It retails for $21.00.

Jenna
Meredith Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 07:52:12 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Where can one find LDPE?
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:44:56 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.154456.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Try Small Parts, Inc.  1-800-220-4242 and ask for a free catalogue.  They
have lots of sheet stock, LDPE, HDPE, Teflon, etc.

Mike Peck

At 11:24 PM 2/1/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Does anyone know where one can find clear LDPE -- Low Density PolyEthylene
>film? I've read it's good for use in a glass mosaic application, but I have
>no clue as to where to begin looking for it.
>
>Thanks.
>
>M.-J. Taylor
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:06:48 1997
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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:06:22 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530502af1bbb715224@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

The largest of this type that I have done was about 72" by 24," so I will
tell you what worked for me.  I cut two pieces of plywood slightly larger
than the piece and assembled it. I soldered all of one side first, putting
down a good bead to ensure as much strength as possible.  I used a glass
cleaner to get rid of the unwanted flux. Then I layed the second piece of
plywood on top and GENTLY clamped all of this together. Then, I was able to
turn the piece over without fear of breaking. I soldered the back side with
a good bead and put in the necessary cross-bracing. I then had several thin
pieces of cardboard that I lay between the braces as I sandwiched the piece
again so that I could complete polishing both sides before sliding into a
frame.

Good luck,
=Gary



>Hi, when I get ready to foil and solder my "Large Window" I am curious
>about the flux and soldering.  I've not done a large piece before (65"
>long by 19" high), and am not sure about a number of soldering issues.
>        Do I tack the top side and then flip it to tack the reverse
>side?  Or, because of the size, should I do a first bead around the top
>side and then flip it over?
>        How much flux should I use during soldering? (I use Glasflux
>liquid)
>        How do I remove the flux?
>        Would appreciate any help and comments.  Thanks, T. in Montana
>----
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      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:09:36 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1
From: StndGlass1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: DR Glass & Others
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 11:09:26 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.6926.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 <<Can anybody help me in locating DR Glass,>>

If by DR you are referring to Double Roll, we have a decent stock of that
glass right now.  I would be happy to check and see if we have what you need!
 E-mail or call me at 1-800-966-6667.

Jenna
Meredith Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:23:14 1997
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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Small cartoons for stained glass
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:22:35 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530506af1bc100a062@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You might consider looking at some coloring books in the toy section of
your local department stores. They may offer some good ideas for these
types of sun catchers.

=Gary

>> Where can I find a book of small cartoons to make stained glass sun catchers,
>
>Go to Inland's web site at  http://www.thestorefinder.com and click
>on the storefinder, then on your state. A list of stores in your area
>will appear ... most of them will carry the kind of books you're
>looking for.
>
>Albert
>
>Albert Lewis, Executive Director
>International Guild of Glass Artists
>A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
>http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:32:38 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:Accurate lamp patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:50:36 +0000
Message-ID: <199702031631.QAA03776@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hear, Hear, Loveta!!
Measure, measure and measure again!
Afraid that nothing replaces old-fashioned conscientoiusness 
(spelling??). Never rely on someone else to do your job for you. It's 
so easy to pass the buck; it's so easy to grab at straws and expect 
someone else to know better what you want than you yourself. If a 
pattern is wrong, you think that you are at fault; if a photocopier 
screws up, you think that you have got your measurements wrong; if a 
photographer delivers indifferent photos, you think your own 
colourmix is at fault.
I don't want to labour the point. Your approach Loveta, is very much 
much my own...
Elisabeth 'n Toby


<After years of teaching classes I never use a copy machine when dealing
with something that must fit. like a lamp.  Especially with angles.  To get
an idea of what happens, check angle on original pattern and then check
angles on patterns after you have copied it on a copy machine.   Off 1/32
or 1/64 of an inch is a disaster.  Many times it is more than that. 

Never assume a pattern out of a book is accurate, always measure angles and
redraw if need be.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:32:38 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:50:35 +0000
Message-ID: <199702031631.QAA03773@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

Jeez, have I acquired a reputation (or noteriety!!)!!
I am a gentle & purring pussy cat - really....
OK, OK, I might have a couple of bees in my bonnet, but  then who hasn't?
But other than that, it ain't such a bad idea!!!    ;-)
A collection of Glass @ Bungi "ideal" pattern/s, politically & 
linguistically "correct", .... hang on, I better stop, before my 
imagination and wicked wild sense of humour flies away with me.
But, hang on there... WHY NOT ??
It is true that we do "winge" about pattern books; so there is no 
reason why each of of us couldn't come up with a contribution or two born 
out of our own heads and experiences. I can think of "worse" people 
than Ole Al to edit, put it together in the form of a REAL pattern 
book, commercially available and proceeds (less expenses) to benefit
The "Poverty-Stricken Stained Glass  Learner ( be it 
beginner/intermediate/advanced) Worl-Wide Benevolent Fund".
.... One can dream.... and pigs might fly...
But at least we could show them folks out there just what stained 
glass people want from stained glass patterns..... (Eat your heart 
out Ed. !!)
Hey Toby, hide your head and wait for the barrage..!!
Elisabeth 'n (hiding) Toby
Gloria,

How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we 
publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis 
would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints, 
and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.

Phil7

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----
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:32:41 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:50:36 +0000
Message-ID: <199702031631.QAA03781@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi Albert,
But OF COURSE it's ageism in full flower!!
Here we are, old "stogeys", only inches away from our 
"Zimmer-frames", coughing and spluttering in/out of the "bunker", 
refusing to grow up...  (or GIVE up)
You know what they say; "cunning and age conquer youth and 
innoscence". But there again: "Age is mind over matter... if you 
don't mind, it doesn't matter..." So what the hell...
You are 16 and I am... the Queen of Sheba...!
Elisabeth 'n  (young) Toby


"Ole' Al Lewis"? !!  Is that ageism at work?  Or do you just know how 
*old I am? <g> (16-year-old boy trapped in 53-year-old body!)
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:34:18 1997
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From: "Ken Lerner" <lernerk@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: flipping a large panel
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 10:22:20 CST
Message-ID: <9701038549.AA854994656@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


          Per the question about flipping over a large panel...

          I happened to see my instructor doing this in the studio one
          day, he used the following technique:

          First he slid the panel over so that the long edge
          was along the edge of the table.  He then carefully
          slid (pulled) the panel out over the edge until he could
          pivot it to an upright position.  Holding the now vertical
          panel, he then turned around ("did the hokey pokey") 180
          degrees, put the panel back against the edge of the table
          and tilted it back up onto the table again (i.e. the reverse
          of the first part of the procedure).  I hope that
          explanation made sense.  Pivoting the panel over the edge of
          the table puts less strain on it than just lifting up one
          edge.  I'm sure there are limits on how big a panel you can
          flip this way... also for a long panel you would want help.
          Just thought I would pass along this "tip" ;-)

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:46:34 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:04:54 +0000
Message-ID: <199702031646.QAA08129@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Connie,
Welcome aboard.
There has been a lot of discussion about computer stained glass 
design software in the last few months. You should be able to find 
more details in the Glass@Bungi Archives.
Other than that, perhaps you have caught a comment or two about 
Dragonfly's "Glasseye", a software design programme specifically 
designed for stained glass. Check them out for your self. They have a 
WEB page   http://www.dfly.com
can be contacted via e-mail: glasseye@dfly.com
are based in San Rafael, California
Their programme, the pros and cons have been fairly extensively aired 
at Glass@Bungi. Quite a number of people in Glass@Bungi Group now have 
this programme. Albert Lewis at IGGA also has available member's 
reviews..
Let us know how you get on
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Connie wrote:
  Does anyone 
know about this new computer stained glass designing software?  Is it 
like Corel Draw?   Thanks for  any info...  I am really enjoying 
receiving all these messages and info.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:55:31 1997
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X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: bevelling machines
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:53:36 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <9702031653.AA04360@crosfield.co.uk>
References: <<1997Feb2.195327.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> Oh also, does anybody know of used tempering and beveling machines for sale?

Keep an eye on (or ask in) the news group "rec.crafts.glass"; there's someone
in there who occasionally posts about some old bevelling machines - I get
the impression they're fairly expensive, large, and heavy - presumably they're
industrial ones, each of which does a single stage, rather than hobby ones.

-Jerry
-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 09:24:14 1997
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From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:23:42 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <9702031723.AA04435@crosfield.co.uk>
References: <<199702011617.KAA01474@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> Anyone serious about S.G.should have sample sets at least
> from the mfg'ers that they are most likely to buy from. A  photographic or
> computer rendering is no substitute for the real thing, not only for color
> but also for texture, degree of light transmission, and relative values to
> other glasses that might be used in a project.

True - unfortunately, with the some of the multicoloured glass, the pattern
can be bigger than a small sample - so in those cases, a full-sheet image
would also be useful - but even then, the variation from sheet to sheet
is often enough to make a big difference. It's hard to beat picking glass
in person, unless you're sticking to single colour or small pattern bits.

(*Sigh* - why is it always cheaper to get things from the US rather than
locally in the UK? At least with stained glass, a lot of things are *made* in
the US - but why Chinese brush painting stuff should be cheaper via the US
is beyond me. Quick rule of thumb, which works for stained glass too: Take
UK price in pounds. Replace pounds by dollars to get approximate US price.
(around a third cheaper). Even after allowing for shipping and
duty and VAT it can still work out cheaper, especially if you can wait for
surface shipping - a *lot* cheaper for books, which are zero rated for VAT
and duty.)   


-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 09:59:35 1997
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From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: photos of glass
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:02:23 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.2223.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.14182.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Harold De Vos:

If you are looking for glass, go to Spectrum Glass's website.

www.spectrumglass.com

They have their glass up on the web.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 10:16:02 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:14:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970203132344.1c3fac5c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 03:40 PM 1/27/97 -0500, you wrote:

>By pushing, you see where the cutter is going.
>By pulling, you only see where it's been.

     I am confused.... I learn so much from this group and I am always
interested in improving my cutting  (and other) skills.  So I did some
practicing with the pushing method.  I have always pulled the cutter.  
        When I push the cutter I cannot see a darn thing except where I have
been.
        When I pull I can see exactly where I am going as well as where I
have been.  The tip of the cutter that holds the wheel has a very short
little line on it painted black.  This line indicates to me that is where
the wheel is touching the glass.  Therefore I am free to guide the cutter to
go exactly where it should be going.  I was more of the thought that I
needed the practice in controlling the cutter than changing cutting
techniques and directions.
        Another question.... While pulling the cutter I keep the wheel
perpendicular to the glass.... when pushing the cutter I assume the same is
true, is this a good assumption?
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 10:17:09 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:16:26 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970203132556.23774c8e@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 Excuse me Howard, can you tell me what  "IMHO" means?  Thanks.

At 04:13 PM 1/27/97 -0500, you wrote:
>-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
>
>IMHO the idea and function of a soldering iron is melt solder.
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 10:41:25 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:46:55 +0000
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> If you are looking for glass, go to Spectrum Glass's website.

http://www.spectrumglass.com is good, but you should also check out 
the newest site I've found ... terrific German full antique that 
downloads *fast! It's the Glashuette Lambert home page at 
http://www.lamberts.de

Great stuff.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 10:41:26 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:46:55 +0000
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> Albert Lewis at IGGA also has available member's 
> reviews..

A review of the dragonfly software is in the latest issue of Common 
Ground: Glass ... go http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm and 
you can subscribe from there. Sorry to suggest you should actually 
spend $, but IGGA's a nonprofit group that needs all the income it 
can muster. <s>

The review *was online here for a couple of weeks as a thankyou to 
bungi.com people who participated ... the review of American Bevel's 
"Designer" can be reached via their website at 
http://www.americanbevel.com

If that policy seems uneven, I guess it is. I assume we'll hear 
shortly from dragonfly about doing the same for them. <s>

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 11:05:28 1997
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From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: alewis@computer.net, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 11:08:21 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.3821.0>
References: <<199702031840.NAA13210@ns.computer.net>>
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Albert:

Did I miss something? I don't understand this posting.

Dick
American Bevel, Inc.


Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > Albert Lewis at IGGA also has available member's
> > reviews..
> 
> A review of the dragonfly software is in the latest issue of Common
> Ground: Glass ... go http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm and
> you can subscribe from there. Sorry to suggest you should actually
> spend $, but IGGA's a nonprofit group that needs all the income it
> can muster. <s>
> 
> The review *was online here for a couple of weeks as a thankyou to
> bungi.com people who participated ... the review of American Bevel's
> "Designer" can be reached via their website at
> http://www.americanbevel.com
> 
> If that policy seems uneven, I guess it is. I assume we'll hear
> shortly from dragonfly about doing the same for them. <s>
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 11:46:56 1997
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From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 14:44:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.94415.0>
References: <<1997Jan22.232122.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jim Jablonski wrote:
> 
> I am new to this group and have fun reading your comments.
> I started Stained Glass a year ago, and after 4 months the local glass
> store went out of buisness.
> So my question is... For mail-order catalogs what do you feel is best
> at price, selection and quality?
> 
> By the way,  Mike Savad said " you can tune a guitar, but you can't
> tuna fish."
> Did you know the way to tuna fish is to play up 'n down it's scales? :)
> 
> Thx in advance for your future resonses.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
Just want to clear things up!
If you think Warner-Crivellaro is only known for its unique bevels then
you really don't know us too well! We also sell our own custom designed
filigree, castings, stencils and more. Not to mention all the tools,
supplies, lamps, glass, books that you can order and much more. We have
variety as well as great prices! Categorically, we sell 20% off
everything and frequently 50% off what other suppliers sell their items.
Our sales flyers always have something exciting and new on sale. I mean
how many times are you going to buy goggles? We offer great sale items
on filigree, bevels, castings, etc. on already low prices (think of all
the wonderful gifts you could make!). I just want to conclude by saying
that Warner-Crivellaro is a very large company and our inventory is
huge! You will always find what you need. We are always very well
stocked in just about everything. So if you have any questions, you know
how to reach me.
Elenie
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 12:10:44 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hot Solder
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:21:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970203133043.1c3fbdb2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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  Hello.....  
                        B.J. Snell did not write the following:
                                                                But I did
ask about solder irons.
                One danger of too much editing... I wouldn't want the
individual sharing this information to not get the proper credit...

At 08:00 PM 1/27/97 -0200, you wrote:
>B. J. Snell wrote:
>> I started out with the Ungar Iron... But the Iron I use now is the Hakko 
>"Super Pro" 60watt iron... This is also the one I made Dave buy...Also 
>this is the second one I bought...seems it has a life span.l..Lasted 
>about 2 years of alot of use... I bought mine from Delphi...best price 
>but better in the fall when they have the 25% off sale.. Sad---needed 
>the Iron and had to pay the full price...but realize it was still the 
>best investment.. Please use a reostat.
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 13:45:04 1997
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From: Harold De Vos <hdevos@win.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering fumes/eyes
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:06:43 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.9643.0>
References: <<199702022005.MAA01689@aphex.direct.ca>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Before glass work I used to do a lot of precise close up
soldering of small electronic circuit boards. Several times
I got so close that my eyes, especially my left,  would get 
slightly irritated by the heated flux fumes.  Also, I would get 
flu-like breathing problems.

Within six months,  I started going blind in that eye and
before I could get in for the eye appointment, it progressed
so far that I could barely see bright images. The story ends
well, I can see just as good as before but I now have a 
new plastic lens as a replacement for my natural lens. 

The flu like problems also stopped after some cursory ventilation. 

According to the doc,  this could happen naturally, but usually to 
much older folks than I!  Like I, he is also convinced 
it was related to both the heat and the toxic fumes, but mainly 
just my slovenly poor soldering habits.  I even held solder in 
my mouth as a sort of third hand!  Phew, what I dummy!

So take the obvious cautions folks! I doubt that most of you are
that ignorant, but on the other hand,  do take it seriously!
Bud


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 14:27:05 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 17:30:24 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.153024.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.12517.0>>
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Philip McRae wrote:
> 
> Gloria,
> 
> How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we
> publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis
> would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints,
> and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.
> 
> Phil7

Sounds good to me. I will go for it..
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 15:51:28 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 18:45:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.134538.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970203132344.1c3fac5c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
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B. J. Snell wrote:
> 
> At 03:40 PM 1/27/97 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >By pushing, you see where the cutter is going.
> >By pulling, you only see where it's been.
> 
>      I am confused.... I learn so much from this group and I am always
> interested in improving my cutting  (and other) skills.  So I did some
> practicing with the pushing method.  I have always pulled the cutter.
>         When I push the cutter I cannot see a darn thing except where I have
> been.
>         When I pull I can see exactly where I am going as well as where I
> have been.  The tip of the cutter that holds the wheel has a very short
> little line on it painted black.  This line indicates to me that is where
> the wheel is touching the glass.  Therefore I am free to guide the cutter to
> go exactly where it should be going.  I was more of the thought that I
> needed the practice in controlling the cutter than changing cutting
> techniques and directions.
>         Another question.... While pulling the cutter I keep the wheel
> perpendicular to the glass.... when pushing the cutter I assume the same is
> true, is this a good assumption?
> Barbara J. Snell
> Dept. of Campus Life
> Cornell University
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah the cutter should always be perpendicular to the glass. when using
the push method, make sure you look ahead of the cutter not behind it.
when you pull that's when you look behind, the problem is that for most
people an arm always seems to appear when your trying to make a cut. 

but if you cutting, and it always on the line, what ever method you used
you should just keep using. sometimes the method may vary between cutter
to cutter.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 15:57:39 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 18:53:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.135338.0>
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Precedence: bulk

B. J. Snell wrote:
> 
>  Excuse me Howard, can you tell me what  "IMHO" means?  Thanks.
> 
Sorry to answer for Howard, but in e-mail parlaiance-IMHO-"In My Humble
Opinion"- Like BTW="By The Way"

Lee
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 16:42:33 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 19:10:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.151050.0>
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>  Excuse me Howard, can you tell me what  "IMHO" means?  Thanks.


IMHO = in my humble opinion.
BTW = by the way.
:-}  = smile
;-}  = wink and a smile

etc. etc. etc.

Isn't there a name for these abbreviations and a listing somewhere? They
can get pretty obscure.

Hilary
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 17:15:46 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:17:27 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970203195726.00689728@pop.bridge.net>
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Jerry wrote:


>(*Sigh* - why is it always cheaper to get things from the US rather than
>locally in the UK? At least with stained glass, a lot of things are *made* in
>the US - but why Chinese brush painting stuff should be cheaper via the US
>is beyond me.
<snip>

It's the size of the market. 

MJ

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 17:26:05 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Carol Swann <seaspray@island.net>
Subject: Re: pricing Tiffany lamps
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 17:22:14 -0500
Message-ID: <199702040125.RAA23614@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Hi Carol, if the only people building shades were doing quality work and not
being paid pennies a day as in the orient and third world countries we would
have no competition.

Now for a few hints..........First off, KEEP accurate records of ALL your
hours, measure glass before starting and what is a "useable" size
sheet when left, solder, any other stuff (foil, jewels, filigree, hardware)
and of course the form and pattern. NEVER stint on the quality of the glass
because of a price constraint.

As for pricing guidelines, it has taken me a lot of years to have enough
records of my shades to be able to quote a price on a shade I have not yet
made, as well a FAIR price on the ones I do as production ones.

Do not let the buying public or a gallery set YOUR prices, but get a fair to
good hourly wage as well a profit on the materials. I always figure the form
cost into each shade, even though they are re-usable(Odyssey).

For a starting place, figure on a per piece price, a 400 piece 16" shade
will use less glass than a 400 piece 22" but may take longer as the pieces
are smaller....NO hard fast rule........Also price a shade as to what you
would need to get as an hourly rate( after figuring all the expenses) if it
were purchased from a gallery and they TOOK their commision. I look at the
LESS than skilled craftsmen in a lot of fields (carpentry, plumbing, auto
repair, consulting, etc.; if I have left anyone out of this list, my humble
apologies) and see what their hours are billed at....I am BETTER!!!!!, I am
selling a LUXURY!!!!

MY shades, without a specific base (bronze) start around $3K and go UP to
$9K (not a wisteria or similar small pieced exercise in frustration).
I have a retail price list keyed to both the "Tiffany" books that my outlets
BUY. This list enables them to take custom work, screen out the lookers, and
show what can be done as to quality and color. If a client cannot see the
difference from a Sears $199.00 import and my "work, BUY the import!!!!!

I generally do not give out any specific price for a specific shade, but do
not mind offering a range.

For clients who intend a multiple purchase, or wholesalers, I usually tie in
a discount for a multiple purchase as a CREDIT toward the next one until a
real volume or wholesale level has been reached.

I am not living a life of desperation, nor do I need to constantly be
upgrading my "toys", and can afford not to take a commission or allow a
gallery or wholesaler to exploit me. It has taken a lot of years to reach
this status.....Enough before I become philosophical!
enjoy...........H


-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

Date: Monday, 03-Feb-97 08:00 AM

From: Carol Swann              \ Internet:    (seaspray@island.net) To:  
Elaine & Howard Rubin    \ Internet:    (weaver51@teleport.com)

Subject: pricing Tiffany lamps

Hi Howard,

Your lamps are beautiful!!  I have a small studio which focusses mainly on
panels and custom work for homeowners and businesses.  I also do a few lamps
for clients and am wondering how to price an intricate lamp such as you
create...I know they will be expensive, but I'd appreciate some information
from you on what you charge for mold type Tiffany lamps and how you
developed your structure...by the number of pieces?  

Thanks for the info...by the way I'm up in Canada so not likely to become a
competitor.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative


-------- REPLY, End of original message --------


--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 17:26:32 1997
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From: WLester380@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: 3-D
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:26:26 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.152626.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
 Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
help.
Thanks, Bill 
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 17:45:21 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3-D
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:39:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.153921.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.152626.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

WLester380@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
>  Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
> body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
> help.
> Thanks, Bill
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


they do make a lead casting, at least for nymph like things. they should
have one for butterflies. you can also sculpt it from copper sheets like
making a tin foil weenie. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
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 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 17:45:30 1997
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From: rickbruser@webtv.net (Rick Bruser)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:45:01 -0800
Message-ID: <199702040145.RAA04872@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>
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Hi Hilary. There are many , I found one through Excite called Netter`s
abbrevia-     tion / acronym glossary. There`s even one for smiley faces
called EFF`s guide to the  internet- smiley dictionary. I`m a newbie to
the web and I also wanted to know. BFN

Rick Bruser
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 17:51:59 1997
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From: mrum@idirect.com (mike & carol)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:52:54 -0500
Message-ID: <199702032052.PAA10021@relief.idirect.com>
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One of the best films to use to get true color is Kodak Ektar.  
The other factor that may really effect your color photography is
the type and color of your flash.  I have had a flash blow out a blue-red
glass and make it look really orangey-yellow.  Yuk.  Read the little
instruction flimsy paper that comes with the film, it may help.

Carol

>Len,
>Good Heavens, you just spoke the lament of my soul..... However hard 
>I try, only too often do my photographs screw up. I have spoken to 
>more professional photographers than I have had hot dinners. All of 
>them agree just how fiendeshly difficult stained glass is to 
>photograph. Landscape photos, animals in motion, animals still, 
>human portraits - no problem. Some of them are even quite "accomplished".  
>Get me in front of a stained glass (especially my own) and everything 
>goes wrong....
>I have a 15 year old Pentax ME Super, with 3 different lenses, 
>filters and what have you.  If I pushed the camera, it might even 
>make the tea.....The film I tend to use regularly is Kodak 100, 200 
>or 400. The colour definitions just come out wrong.....
>For instance, in my latest addition to my WEB-page (St.Francis 
>Church) , the grapes in the 
>basket are supposed to be champagne coloured (by the way - they were 
>"fun" to cut and lead!!). They came out sort of non-descript....
>Len, my heart is with you. I am obviously not alone (sob).
>Any ideas folks??? What am I doing wrong???
>Elisabeth 'n Toby (the latter looking splendiferous in HIS photo on 
>the WEB :-(    )
>
>Len wrote:
> with
>decent equipement,for me photographing completed, installed works has always
>been the least satisfying aspect of the overall project effort.
>
>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
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>
*******************************************
Mike and Carol Rumak
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at:
http://web.idirect.com/~studio
*******************************************

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 18:09:56 1997
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From: Kate <103010.3020@CompuServe.COM>
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Date: 03 Feb 97 21:08:31 EST
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Please remove me from the list
Thank you,
K. McAlister

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 18:17:12 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO and others ....
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 21:16:56 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970203211645.0067d074@pop.bridge.net>
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I'm not sure what the abbreviations are called, other than acronyms ...
which is what they are called IRL (in real life) as well as on line. ;0

The smiley faces and variations are called 'emoticons', a neologism coined
on line, I think. :D

There *are* lists of them on line. A nice page of links to several lists
and even a bit of history can be found at:

http://www.sandybay.com:80/pc-web/smiley.htm

and more:

http://gene.fwi.uva.nl:80/~ketel/Misc/emoticon.html 

And since Valentine's is not far away, one might want to send a dozen red
@}>------------ (s) to one's sweetest.
;)

M.-J.

PS ... And while this has little to do with glass, perhaps, it does have to
do with *communicating* about any topic. (The asterisks, BTW, indicate
emphasis, in lieu of a boldface, italics or underline format which can't be
made in (older versions of) email and chat software.



At 07:10 PM 2/3/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>  Excuse me Howard, can you tell me what  "IMHO" means?  Thanks.
>
>
>IMHO = in my humble opinion.
>BTW = by the way.
>:-}  = smile
>;-}  = wink and a smile
>
>etc. etc. etc.
>
>Isn't there a name for these abbreviations and a listing somewhere? They
>can get pretty obscure.
>
>Hilary
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>
>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 18:44:52 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: flipping a large panel
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:43:45 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702040243.UAA11059@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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Now we're talkin turkey..  the idea is to take the panel off the edge of the
table enough so that you hit the balance point and pivot the panel to
vertical with a crisp enough manouver so the panel has very little chance to
bend. When putting it back on the table find that same point and flop that
baby up there in one fell swoop. When this feat is accomplished with two
people you can flip any size panel that you will ever see built. I flipped
some 54 inch square panels with a guy that never did it before I told him to
think like a syncronized swimmer keeping a sheet streched out.I have no idea
why I said that but he knew what I meant and somehow it worked.You just
can't hesitate.  When the panels are big and heavy I rest them on my toes
while doing the hokey pokey. I'm sure the board thing works well but I still
go for the cheap thrills once in a while :-)

Len



>          Per the question about flipping over a large panel...
>
>          I happened to see my instructor doing this in the studio one
>          day, he used the following technique:
>
>          First he slid the panel over so that the long edge
>          was along the edge of the table.  He then carefully
>          slid (pulled) the panel out over the edge until he could
>          pivot it to an upright position.  Holding the now vertical
>          panel, he then turned around ("did the hokey pokey") 180
>          degrees, put the panel back against the edge of the table
>          and tilted it back up onto the table again (i.e. the reverse
>          of the first part of the procedure).  I hope that
>          explanation made sense.  Pivoting the panel over the edge of
>          the table puts less strain on it than just lifting up one
>          edge.  I'm sure there are limits on how big a panel you can
>          flip this way... also for a long panel you would want help.
>          Just thought I would pass along this "tip" ;-)
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 18:59:08 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Small cartoons for stained glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 21:23:36 +0000
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> While you're there check out Stained Glass Quarterly's new special
> feature article: Protective Glazing for Stained Glass Windows.  This highly
> informative article examines the findings of Inspired Partnerships's study
> of protective glazing in the stianed glass industry.

Did you notice how much its findings were just what Julie Sloan's 
been saying for years? <s> In fact, it's pretty much what she said as 
long as ten years ago ... in the Quarterly.  Not to mention, of 
course, that the "new" study's author was soundly slapped by the Park 
Service for lifting Sloan's text for his proposal for the study. 
<sigh>

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 19:24:33 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 21:23:28 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702040323.VAA12712@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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> It's hard to beat picking glass
>in person 

That's for sure when I used to go to Hollander in Chicago they would give
you a pen some stickers and a wheeled easel and let you loose in this huge
warehouse to pick and choose whatever sheets you wanted. I felt like a kid
in a candy store. And great wholesale prices to boot. Then I'd go over Ed
Hoy's and a nattily attired person would escort me to a waiting lounge
tastefully appointed in mauve and taupe and offer me coffee while my order
was assembled. The liability you know. Phooey on that!

Len

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 20:24:25 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: flipping a large panel
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:43:59 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.134359.0>
References: <<9701038549.AA854994656@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>>
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Hi Ken,
	Thanks for the tips, I'll give it a try.  T. in Montana

Ken Lerner wrote:
> 
>           Per the question about flipping over a large panel...
> 
>           I happened to see my instructor doing this in the studio one
>           day, he used the following technique:
> 
>           First he slid the panel over so that the long edge
>           was along the edge of the table.  He then carefully
>           slid (pulled) the panel out over the edge until he could
>           pivot it to an upright position.  Holding the now vertical
>           panel, he then turned around ("did the hokey pokey") 180
>           degrees, put the panel back against the edge of the table
>           and tilted it back up onto the table again (i.e. the reverse
>           of the first part of the procedure).  I hope that
>           explanation made sense.  Pivoting the panel over the edge of
>           the table puts less strain on it than just lifting up one
>           edge.  I'm sure there are limits on how big a panel you can
>           flip this way... also for a long panel you would want help.
>           Just thought I would pass along this "tip" ;-)
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 20:35:03 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: flipping a large panel
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:54:35 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.135435.0>
References: <<199702040243.UAA11059@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
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Hi Len,  Sometimes it's good to go for the thrills, cheap or otherwise. 
Seriously, thanks for your tip.  T. in Montana

len alcamo wrote:
> 
> Now we're talkin turkey..  the idea is to take the panel off the edge of the
> table enough so that you hit the balance point and pivot the panel to
> vertical with a crisp enough manouver so the panel has very little chance to
> bend. When putting it back on the table find that same point and flop that
> baby up there in one fell swoop. When this feat is accomplished with two
> people you can flip any size panel that you will ever see built. I flipped
> some 54 inch square panels with a guy that never did it before I told him to
> think like a syncronized swimmer keeping a sheet streched out.I have no idea
> why I said that but he knew what I meant and somehow it worked.You just
> can't hesitate.  When the panels are big and heavy I rest them on my toes
> while doing the hokey pokey. I'm sure the board thing works well but I still
> go for the cheap thrills once in a while :-)
> 
> Len
> 
> >          Per the question about flipping over a large panel...
> >
> >          I happened to see my instructor doing this in the studio one
> >          day, he used the following technique:
> >
> >          First he slid the panel over so that the long edge
> >          was along the edge of the table.  He then carefully
> >          slid (pulled) the panel out over the edge until he could
> >          pivot it to an upright position.  Holding the now vertical
> >          panel, he then turned around ("did the hokey pokey") 180
> >          degrees, put the panel back against the edge of the table
> >          and tilted it back up onto the table again (i.e. the reverse
> >          of the first part of the procedure).  I hope that
> >          explanation made sense.  Pivoting the panel over the edge of
> >          the table puts less strain on it than just lifting up one
> >          edge.  I'm sure there are limits on how big a panel you can
> >          flip this way... also for a long panel you would want help.
> >          Just thought I would pass along this "tip" ;-)
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 21:36:11 1997
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From: Jim Jablonski <jimjab@sprintmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Copper Foil
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 21:36:34 -0800
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Old copper foil can be very useful in the garden outside.  Snails and
slugs can not slime across copper. (it gives them an electric-type
shock)
At many garden supply stores they sell 1.25" wide copper foil to keep
the slime kings off of citrus trees and such.  I think price wise, it's
over priced, but what else do you expect at a garden store?
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 21:45:28 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 00:45:23 -0500 (EST)
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In a message dated 97-02-01 17:14:10 EST, you write:

<< Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.
  >>

I had a similar, yet worse experience.  I was making a lamp during
a class.  The pattern I used had 3 dimensional panels as part of
the skirt.  Except the pattern book didn't provide the right specifications.

Nothing fit right, the instructor admitted it was a bad pattern, but we
managed to "work around it.   However there are some pretty big
solder seams in this lamp!
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 21:55:05 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 00:55:08 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.19558.0>
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In a message dated 97-02-01 13:54:32 EST, you write:

<< ell i know spectrum has thier glass online. though i really don't see
 the problem, once you figure out how to scan the glass, all they have to
 do is to bring it into photoshop and match the colors that way. 
  >>

I e-mailed the web master at spectrum, complimented him
on the "samples" on line and asked for more.  

He responded and said they planned to have all their product
available soon.

I suspect the others will have samples shortly as well.  I'm too
cheap to buy a sample kit(s).  I making them up as I go along.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 22:21:33 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:21:03 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.20213.0>
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In a message dated 97-02-01 14:25:59 EST, you write:

<< hat's both frustrating and a challenge to those of us who try to 
 represent glass and glasswork as accurately and beautifully as 
 possible, whether in print or on the web.
  >>

I agree somewhat with your assessment of the technology.  Wouldn't
you say that there are also problems with 2" x 3" samples?  Certainly
there are problems with catalog descriptions of glass.

There is no substitute for seeing the glass in person, in the light.
My problem is the prices charged at my local retailer are almost
twice the cost of mail order.  I found the spectrum web site to be
very useful in terms of getting an idea of what I was buying, having
previously bought "cold" using only the catalog.  

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 22:26:14 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:26:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.202612.0>
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In a message dated 97-02-01 23:04:51 EST, you write:

<< when you use volume, but Support your local businesses. >>

I feel as tho my local businesses should support me as well.

When I run to them with a problem.  E.g. a new solder tip,
match glass, I know ahead of time that I am going to get
badly ripped off.    The last time I bought 50-50, my local
supplier charged $8.95 for a 1 lb roll.

I find this outrageous.  I could see $5 or $6.  This support
your local retailer is a two way street.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 23:42:57 1997
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From: Bubstah@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Where can one find LDPE?
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 02:42:59 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.214259.0>
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I like to go to radiologist offices.  Ask them to save you their waste
x-rays.  These
are generally free and work wonderfully well.  Since most of you have shared
your
thoughts and ideas with me over the last week since i've found you, I thought
I would
share this fantastic idea for making cartoon patterns for your glass
projects.

Enjoy..  Bubstah
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 02:20:45 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 05:26:33 +0000
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> I agree somewhat with your assessment of the technology.  Wouldn't
> you say that there are also problems with 2" x 3" samples?  Certainly
> there are problems with catalog descriptions of glass.

Yes, of course. Everything but the full sheet right in front of you 
is an approximation. Photographs even more so.

Albert

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 05:02:27 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO and others ....
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 07:30:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.33054.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970203211645.0067d074@pop.bridge.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

Thanks M.-J....which is an acronym for what?
> 
> I'm not sure what the abbreviations are called, other than acronyms ...
> which is what they are called IRL (in real life) as well as on line. ;0
> 
> The smiley faces and variations are called 'emoticons', a neologism coined
> on line, I think. :D
> 
> There *are* lists of them on line. A nice page of links to several lists
> and even a bit of history can be found at:
> 
> http://www.sandybay.com:80/pc-web/smiley.htm
> 
> and more:
> 
> http://gene.fwi.uva.nl:80/~ketel/Misc/emoticon.html
> 
> And since Valentine's is not far away, one might want to send a dozen red
> @}>------------ (s) to one's sweetest.
> ;)
> 
> M.-J.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 05:42:57 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:11:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.41124.0>
References: <<199702031631.QAA03773@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

It is an interesting thought, this collection of patterns, but there are
problems from my standpoint. First of all, I don't really do anything
small, so the book would have to be at least 3 feet square. That size is
so awkward on the library shelves...;-}

Then there is the matter of subject. One of my latest pieces that I have
really liked when it was done was a commemorative panel for my cousin
who just celebrated the 30th anniversary of his kidney transplant. (He
is one of the oldest living transplants, BTW.) But, as much as I liked
the panel, who else among us has use for a "30" floating in a graphic of
a kidney??? (trust me, it looks better than it sounds, albeit still very
weird)

Am I being too picky?? Or are these minor details?

Barragingly yours,
Hilary

P.S. Elisabeth, Scratch Toby behind the ears and tell him everything is
ok. It's just the humans again.

> ...A collection of Glass @ Bungi "ideal" pattern/s, politically &
> linguistically "correct", .... hang on, I better stop, before my
> imagination and wicked wild sense of humour flies away with me.
> But, hang on there... WHY NOT ??
> ...Hey Toby, hide your head and wait for the barrage..!!
> Elisabeth 'n (hiding) Toby
> ...
> How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we
> publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis
> would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints,
> and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.
> 
> Phil7
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 05:57:22 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:03:08 +0000
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> who else among us has use for a "30" floating in a graphic of
> a kidney??? (trust me, it looks better than it sounds, albeit still very
> weird)

Ee-yew! Reminds me of when I was a kid and tonsillectomies were all 
the rage and your friends at school would bring theirs in a bottle to 
show-n-tell. 

Sounds like a great cover for Common Ground: Glass! <g>

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 05:57:26 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO and others ....
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:58:51 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970204085524.0068cc44@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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At 07:30 AM 2/4/97 -0400, Hilary wrote:

>Thanks M.-J....which is an acronym for what?

LOL ... How about Multiple-Joys?

Definitely *not* Mary-Jane, but, perhaps, Mary-Jeanette. 

;|

>> 
>> I'm not sure what the abbreviations are called, other than acronyms ...
>> which is what they are called IRL (in real life) as well as on line. ;0
>> 
>> The smiley faces and variations are called 'emoticons', a neologism coined
>> on line, I think. :D
>> 
>> There *are* lists of them on line. A nice page of links to several lists
>> and even a bit of history can be found at:
>> 
>> http://www.sandybay.com:80/pc-web/smiley.htm
>> 
>> and more:
>> 
>> http://gene.fwi.uva.nl:80/~ketel/Misc/emoticon.html
>> 
>> And since Valentine's is not far away, one might want to send a dozen red
>> @}>------------ (s) to one's sweetest.
>> ;)
>> 
>> M.-J.
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 06:30:42 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns/kidneys/hearts
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:30:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.4307.0>
References: <<199702041356.IAA19826@ns.computer.net>>
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On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:

> > who else among us has use for a "30" floating in a graphic of
> > a kidney??? (trust me, it looks better than it sounds, albeit still very
> > weird)
> 
> Ee-yew! Reminds me of when I was a kid and tonsillectomies were all 
> the rage and your friends at school would bring theirs in a bottle to 
> show-n-tell. 

Hilary's comments about "who else would want" were my thoughts exactly
when I considered my favorite originals.....

You know how they say, "Everytime Merle Haggard gets his heart broken, he
cries all the way to the bank?" That means he is inspired to write and
record a really great song. If it works for Merle, why not you and I?

My favorite panels came to me while I was driving, on the verge of tears.
They jumped into my inner eye, more or less complete....a broken heart,
surrounded by orange and yellow flames, ice glass in the center where the
break is wide and in more white hot flames behind, bevels for molten drops
below, all set in a royal, hammered sea.....

The other heart is also flaming, with a great iridescent black dagger
drawing a gush of purple blood. The action floats in a turquoise hammered
circle which itself is floating within a rectangle of clear baroque. Yes,
very cathartic. Didn't even have to do the one with the exploding heart,
that's how well it worked for drawing out the poison! 

But, no, I don't think anybody is gonna wanna run out and reproduce these.

Mary







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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 06:36:59 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:54:55 +0000
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Thanks Lee,
 Must admit, I have been wondering too
What about Chartres?? There is still room for you....
Elisabeth 'n Toby

From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 06:37:02 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:54:49 +0000
Message-ID: <199702041436.OAA02612@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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 Hi Elenie (and All),
I think an awful lot of people are very pleased to see a regular 
input from you and delighted to see you in our "fold".
Not wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons here,  I am hoping 
that you might be able to dispel past niggles from  a number of our 
Group, that of contacting Warner-Crivellaro to try and prise out a 
Catalog from your Company in the FIRST place. If I remember correctly 
from thess last 12 months, there has been a certain amount of grumblings 
about the difficulties and retisence by Warner-Crivellaro to part 
with their catalogues to us individually. My own last full catalogue 
dates back to 1994 and the latest "Mini-Catalog" from 1995 which has 
kindly been forwarded to me from a member of Bungi in USA (who is 
coming over to UK in a month or so).
Could you perhaps enlighten us what the situation is now, and thereby 
- also perhaps - win back the favour of some disgruntled potential 
customers (especially in USA - never mind us poor relations in 
UK...).
Hope I haven't put you on a spot - that was not my intention.
Elisabeth 'n Toby
Just want to clear things up!
If you think Warner-Crivellaro is only known for its unique bevels then
you really don't know us too well! (snip) So if you have any questions, you know
how to reach me.
Elenie
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 06:37:03 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Prices..was photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:54:49 +0000
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Hi Jerry (and all...)
....(sigh...) You are singing my song......
BTW, Sorry to see that you won't / can't join us on the Chartres trip 
in April. Nevertheless, how about joining  us for dinner before the 
trip so you can get to meet the people from USA and them you???
Might you be able to make it to Breachwood Green (other side of Luton 
Airport)?? Let's discuss off-Group...
Elisabeth 'n Toby

. It's hard to beat picking glass
in person, unless you're sticking to single colour or small pattern bits.

(*Sigh* - why is it always cheaper to get things from the US rather than
locally in the UK? At least with stained glass, a lot of things are *made* in
the US - but why Chinese brush painting stuff should be cheaper via the US
is beyond me. Quick rule of thumb, which works for stained glass too: Take
UK price in pounds. Replace pounds by dollars to get approximate US price.
(around a third cheaper). Even after allowing for shipping and
duty and VAT it can still work out cheaper, especially if you can wait for
surface shipping - a *lot* cheaper for books, which are zero rated for VAT
and duty.)   


-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 06:50:45 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:44:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.44454.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.194523.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-02-01 17:14:10 EST, you write:
> 
> << Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.
>   >>
> 
> I had a similar, yet worse experience.  I was making a lamp during
> a class.  The pattern I used had 3 dimensional panels as part of
> the skirt.  Except the pattern book didn't provide the right specifications.
> 
> Nothing fit right, the instructor admitted it was a bad pattern, but we
> managed to "work around it.   However there are some pretty big
> solder seams in this lamp!
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


this is where decorative soldering comes in handy, put it on all the
seams inclucind the fat ones, and it might look like you meant it to be
that way.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 07:21:26 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Catalogs
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:23:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.52310.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I had heard heresome time back that there was a problem getting a WC 
catalog. I just requesedt one from their web page and got it within a few 
days. I was thrilled with it. Lots of tongue-in-cheek humor (like the old 
Beagle brothers software for Apple IIe's).
Over all the catalog reads like a good book and I will be sure to order 
from them to spread my business around.

http://www.catalogsite.com/Gen/Warner_P1.html

Linda Campbell

Toby wrote:
<Not wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons here,  I am hoping
that you might be able to dispel past niggles from  a number of our
Group, that of contacting Warner-Crivellaro to try and prise out a
Catalog from your Company in the FIRST place. If I remember correctly
from thess last 12 months, there has been a certain amount of grumblings
about the difficulties and retisence by Warner-Crivellaro to part
with their catalogues to us individually. My own last full catalogue
dates back to 1994 and the latest "Mini-Catalog" from 1995 which > snip

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end

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 07:46:41 1997
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From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:51:43 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.35143.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.151050.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HiLine Internet Customer
Precedence: bulk

Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> 
> >  Excuse me Howard, can you tell me what  "IMHO" means?  Thanks.
> 
> IMHO = in my humble opinion.
> BTW = by the way.
> :-}  = smile
> ;-}  = wink and a smile
> 
> etc. etc. etc.
> 
> Isn't there a name for these abbreviations and a listing somewhere? They
> can get pretty obscure.
> 
> Hilary
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Hilary, FWIW (for what it's worth) i guess these are a good short hand 
- you can make a joke - and insure the recipient knows it's supposed to
be in jest by putting on the grin.  People also make pictures with the
punc. marks - some of the scuba folks have fish that would be right at
home on Mike S's "Poesidon's Lamp" (did it ever get a final name? great
piece!)  I even saw a :-) type face as a suncatcher at a show recently. 
Linn
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 10:42:24 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: sample boxes
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 97 10:38:29 -0500
Message-ID: <199702041841.KAA26898@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

IMHO (by now, most of you do indeed know what this translates to) if you are
doing panels, suncatchers and the likes of same, that are dependent on
outside light, the exotic hand-made glasses and sample boxes of them, may
not be a necessity. If you use a lot of cathedrals, new sheet antiques,
where intense color is wanted and reflection of color is not a major concern
, then the samples of MACHINE made glass should indicate fairly closely what
the actual sheet contains and will look like.

My beginning students (a small lamp first) use Spectrum,(colors ARE chosen
from a sample box) as they progress, I spend time with them showing the
properties of the hand-mades for a "larger" Tiffany style shade. I
discourage buying by "price". 

I use mainly opalescents, (currently all yogo stipples, although a have a
large inventory of curious bullseye and uro) that may have 3 to 5 colors
hand swirled and a 2x4" piece will probably NOT show more than a few of the
colors that are present in the 24x36" sheet.

My shades show GOOD color when lit (my first emphasis) and do not loose much
when not lit....care must be used to avoid them looking "muddy". Machine
made glasses will not have the life of an exotic handmade sheet.

My shop (dark most of time) has a large light table with 24 bulbs on 3
dimmers to view a large sheet as I want to and will be using it, a smaller
light table to cut on, and easels to fit on the big table to view the cut
shade before assembly in the order the repeats will be assembled.

the above is a lot of verbage to say that YES for machine made glasses, and
no for limited, or multi-colored handmade glass, but the samples of the
handmades will give you a look at the possibilites. If you mail order, you
do get the next sheet in the rack....may or may not look like the sample you
have pondered, dreamed of, mentally used in your "treasure", drooled over,
and agonized over due to spending more than you ever have before on a
"piece" of glass. Then, of course, how many pieces will it be when it is
delivered (do not dispair, you gotta cut it anyway).

Enough running off at the keyboard....need to build a lamp.

Enjoy.......H 
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 13:16:56 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:19:22 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.141922.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970203012613.00687b38@pop.bridge.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M.-J. wrote:
> 
> Where can this cutter be found, please?
> 
> MJ

One brand name is Leponitt Mosaic Glass Cutter and Hudson has that 
brand.. another mosaic cutter can be found at Delphi in their catalog .

> 
> Oh, and  I *think* smalti can be had through Dal-Tile ...
> they do have two types of glass mosaic tile ... one is called Kolorines,
> I'm not sure about the other, but they have a lot of variety.
> 
> <snip>>> 2 cutting wheels and is supposed to "easily nip glass into
> geometric shapes".
> 
> >> It seems easier than ordering the Italian glass smalti which I last
> heard was available from one person in the U.S.
> 
> >>
> >> Diane
> >>
> >
> >Yes, I use it.. Also i keep it at my cutting table, I nip off  the areas
> > of my glass is the break line was not close to the pattern. this saves
> >me from grinding all that.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 13:33:31 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering fumes/eyes
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:36:58 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.143658.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.9643.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

Harold De Vos wrote:
> 
> Before glass work I used to do a lot of precise close up
> soldering of small electronic circuit boards. Several times
> I got so close that my eyes, especially my left,  would get
> slightly irritated by the heated flux fumes.  Also, I would get
> flu-like breathing problems.
> 
> Within six months,  I started going blind in that eye and
> before I could get in for the eye appointment, it progressed
> so far that I could barely see bright images. The story ends
> well, I can see just as good as before but I now have a
> new plastic lens as a replacement for my natural lens.
> 
> The flu like problems also stopped after some cursory ventilation.
> 
> According to the doc,  this could happen naturally, but usually to
> much older folks than I!  Like I, he is also convinced
> it was related to both the heat and the toxic fumes, but mainly
> just my slovenly poor soldering habits.  I even held solder in
> my mouth as a sort of third hand!  Phew, what I dummy!
> 
> So take the obvious cautions folks! I doubt that most of you are
> that ignorant, but on the other hand,  do take it seriously!
> Bud

Bud,
I hope you are doing better...Was the plastic lens an  
surgical insertion...  
I might have been cleaning my glass with liquid dish soap and water, 
which might have caused the scratches to the lens.. But I am more 
worried about the eye conditon you have.. glass lenses can be replaced.. 
hope you are doing well and Thanks. 
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 14:33:15 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:36:20 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.153620.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.94415.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Warner-Crivellaro wrote:
> 
> Jim Jablonski wrote:
> >
> > I am new to this group and have fun reading your comments.
> > I started Stained Glass a year ago, and after 4 months the local glass
> > store went out of buisness.
> > So my question is... For mail-order catalogs what do you feel is best
> > at price, selection and quality?
> >
> > By the way,  Mike Savad said " you can tune a guitar, but you can't
> > tuna fish."
> > Did you know the way to tuna fish is to play up 'n down it's scales? :)
> >
> > Thx in advance for your future resonses.
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> Just want to clear things up!
> If you think Warner-Crivellaro is only known for its unique bevels then
> you really don't know us too well! We also sell our own custom designed
> filigree, castings, stencils and more. Not to mention all the tools,
> supplies, lamps, glass, books that you can order and much more. We have
> variety as well as great prices! Categorically, we sell 20% off
> everything and frequently 50% off what other suppliers sell their items.
> Our sales flyers always have something exciting and new on sale. I mean
> how many times are you going to buy goggles? We offer great sale items
> on filigree, bevels, castings, etc. on already low prices (think of all
> the wonderful gifts you could make!). I just want to conclude by saying
> that Warner-Crivellaro is a very large company and our inventory is
> huge! You will always find what you need. We are always very well
> stocked in just about everything. So if you have any questions, you know
> how to reach me.
> Elenie

Hi, if it was me who wrote so highly of your bevels, I owe you an 
apology. Yes, I order many of your products, and yes, you have a great 
product line and a very nice staff (Last year UPS lost my order, and 
your company worked with me and even went beyond to trace the order and 
have UPS replace it--folks, this is country living at Christmas), I 
guess at being a catalog shopper, I overlook the common articles and I 
was guily of that (like the regular but good prices on glass, solder, 
foil-- although I swear you have the best copper patina in your 
Classique Brand) but I am greatly pleased by your customed bevels, it 
was only yesterday (2/3) that I took down the Partridge in the pear 
tree.... To see the beveled partridge gave me a nice feeling through the 
winter country scene.. Sorry for not including all of your products, I 
guess I was guilty of taking them for granted, but your bevels  AH!

> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 14:56:18 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:24:25 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.132425.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.35143.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> ... I even saw a :-) type face as a suncatcher at a show recently.
> Linn

Oh, wow! I wouldn't want to make it myself, but I most certainly would
buy one for my husband for Xmas!

Hilary
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 14:56:41 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:25:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.13258.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.44454.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> this is where decorative soldering comes in handy, put it on all the
> seams inclucind the fat ones, and it might look like you meant it to be
> that way.
> 
> ---Mike Savad

Way back in the old days when I was a costume designer in the theater,
we had a much used saying:

If you can't fix it, feature it.

We "featured" a lot of stuff back then, and I continue to "feature" a
lot of stuff now...'specially when it comes to solder! <g>

Hilary
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 14:57:24 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:25:45 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.132545.0>
References: <<199702041356.IAA19826@ns.computer.net>>
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Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> who else among us has use for a "30" floating in a graphic of
> a kidney??? (trust me, it looks better than it sounds, albeit still very
> weird)
>
> Sounds like a great cover for Common Ground: Glass! <g>
> 
> Albert

Trust me, Albert, as much as I liked the piece, as much as my cousin was
totally taken with it, as a cover it just wouldn' fly. It would be the
sort of cover that you would wake up some morning in the future and
start singing many choruses of "What Was I Thinking?."

But, if you want to entertain your brain for a minute, though it took me
days of deliberation, think about color choices. I laugh about it now,
but it wasn't funny then. Needless to say, the yellow family was
out!<vbg>

Hilary
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 14:58:44 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 18:02:13 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.16213.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970203195726.00689728@pop.bridge.net>>
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Precedence: bulk

M.-J. wrote:
> 
> Jerry wrote:
> 
> >(*Sigh* - why is it always cheaper to get things from the US rather than
> >locally in the UK? At least with stained glass, a lot of things are *made* in
> >the US - but why Chinese brush painting stuff should be cheaper via the US
> >is beyond me.
> <snip>

Not to change the subject, but what are your glass manufacturers like... 
Are the European glasses different from the American 
manufacturers...What are your colors like?
Thanks
> 
> It's the size of the market.
> 
> MJ
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 15:01:40 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:55:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.125535.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.35143.0>>
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Rio Grande Valley Museum wrote:
> 
> Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> >
> > >  Excuse me Howard, can you tell me what  "IMHO" means?  Thanks.
> >
> > IMHO = in my humble opinion.
> > BTW = by the way.
> > :-}  = smile
> > ;-}  = wink and a smile
> >
> > etc. etc. etc.
> >
> > Isn't there a name for these abbreviations and a listing somewhere? They
> > can get pretty obscure.
> >
> > Hilary
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> Hilary, FWIW (for what it's worth) i guess these are a good short hand
> - you can make a joke - and insure the recipient knows it's supposed to
> be in jest by putting on the grin.  People also make pictures with the
> punc. marks - some of the scuba folks have fish that would be right at
> home on Mike S's "Poesidon's Lamp" (did it ever get a final name? great
> piece!)  I even saw a :-) type face as a suncatcher at a show recently.
> Linn
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the lamp sort of got a name, though i'm still iffy on some of the other
names... i'm sure something will come to mind sooner or later.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 15:01:49 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3-D
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 18:05:25 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.16525.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.152626.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

WLester380@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
>  Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
> body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
> help.
> Thanks, Bill

Bill, 
I have some lawn stand abouts to do this year... There are leaded 
castings available...Also some companies offer jewel (glass) bodies...If 
you need more help, leave me know
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 15:05:46 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3-D
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 18:09:13 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.16913.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.153921.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> WLester380@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> > I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
> >  Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
> > body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
> > help.
> > Thanks, Bill

Bill,

There are alot of lead castings available..I just ordered 2 of at least 
8 different designs from Anything in Stained Glass.  They even have a 
lady butterfly???
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> they do make a lead casting, at least for nymph like things. they should
> have one for butterflies. you can also sculpt it from copper sheets like
> making a tin foil weenie.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 15:09:53 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Copper Foil
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 18:13:22 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.161322.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.133634.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jim Jablonski wrote:
> 
> Old copper foil can be very useful in the garden outside.  Snails and
> slugs can not slime across copper. (it gives them an electric-type
> shock)
> At many garden supply stores they sell 1.25" wide copper foil to keep
> the slime kings off of citrus trees and such.  I think price wise, it's
> over priced, but what else do you expect at a garden store?

Thank you for the reminder, sometimes I get one tracked, yes, copper 
foil is good around the flower beds to keep slugs away-  recycle
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 15:11:57 1997
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From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3-D
Date: Tue,  4 Feb 97 16:11:31 -0700
Message-ID: <m0vru1V-000Li4C@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<1997Feb4.16525.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
> WLester380@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
> Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
> body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
> help.
> Thanks, Bill

i went to a local glass blower and had him make up some solid handblown  
butterfly bodies with antennas. i then wrapped a couple of bands of foil  
around them, and attached the wings to the bands. i used slumping glass  
(1/16" thick) to make the wings so that they would appear to be very light  
and thin.

---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 15:19:01 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 18:22:23 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.162223.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.41124.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> 
> It is an interesting thought, this collection of patterns, but there are
> problems from my standpoint. First of all, I don't really do anything
> small, so the book would have to be at least 3 feet square. That size is
> so awkward on the library shelves...;-}
> 
> Then there is the matter of subject. One of my latest pieces that I have
> really liked when it was done was a commemorative panel for my cousin
> who just celebrated the 30th anniversary of his kidney transplant. (He
> is one of the oldest living transplants, BTW.) But, as much as I liked
> the panel, who else among us has use for a "30" floating in a graphic of
> a kidney??? (trust me, it looks better than it sounds, albeit still very
> weird)
> 
> Am I being too picky?? Or are these minor details?
> 
> Barragingly yours,
> Hilary
> 
> P.S. Elisabeth, Scratch Toby behind the ears and tell him everything is
> ok. It's just the humans again.

Hi, I am new to this group, why would Elizabeth scratch Toby behind the 
ears..Remember, I am 3hounds.
I liked Elizabeth's comments but thought Toby 

> > ...A collection of Glass @ Bungi "ideal" pattern/s, politically &
> > linguistically "correct", .... hang on, I better stop, before my
> > imagination and wicked wild sense of humour flies away with me.
> > But, hang on there... WHY NOT ??
> > ...Hey Toby, hide your head and wait for the barrage..!!
> > Elisabeth 'n (hiding) Toby


> > How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we
> > publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis
> > would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints,
> > and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.
> >
> > Phil7
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 18:04:49 1997
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From: CUTLER@Wittenberg.EDU
To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM
Subject: mosaic glass cutters
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:04:00 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.1640.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi. Bob Cutler here.  I've just finished two mosaics.  I made one
according to the instructions in one of the books on the subject.
The pansy pattern displayed on the cover.  It was challenging,
fun, and I will most certainly try it again.  I built my own
form, by the way.  I am very pleased with the result. 

The trouble with this pattern book - and
others, I imagine - is that it really doesn't encourage the
use of those pesky scraps which I refuse to throw away :) :).
SO since I own a pair of the mosaic glass cutters, and wanted to
use them, I decided to experiment:
I bought a hexagonal patio stone.  I bought a bag of Thin-Set
which is used to lay ceramic tile over concrete surfaces. I gathered
my scraps and trimmed them to suit and hatched a pattern on the spot
After laying out a rough design, I prepared the thin-set and 
applied it to the stone, followed by the glass.  It was a bit messy
but that was my fault for using too much thin-set.  I made sure that
there was an empty space between each piece of glass.  After a
bit of time called for on the thin-set package I applied grout.
I like the result well enough to try again.  It takes less time,
allows the use of the cutters, and is as much fun as the more formal
patterns.

In short I love the cutters.  
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 18:18:21 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:09:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.16946.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.202612.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I can't speak for all businesses, only the ones I deal with. Most places
I go and spend my money, especially if I am a repeat customer, I expect
some accomodation. The main studio I deal with is negotiable, and is
willing to move on price, if they expect me to buy. I live in the New
York Metro area, so there is no lack of competition. If you have no
choices of vendors, I concede your point. But try to bargain. If they
know you can get a deal elsewhere, most GOOD business people will rather
make a reduced profit sale, RATHER THAN NO SALE AT ALL. A good studio
makes money off their labor, besides supplies. If they are ripping you
off, I don't know that they should get your business, but it you don't
protest....   caveat emptor   
<snip>
> When I run to them with a problem.  E.g. a new solder tip,
> match glass, I know ahead of time that I am going to get
> badly ripped off.    The last time I bought 50-50, my local
> supplier charged $8.95 for a 1 lb roll.
> 
> I find this outrageous.  I could see $5 or $6.  This support
> your local retailer is a two way street.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 20:05:41 1997
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: retailing...
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 97 20:02:04 -0500
Message-ID: <199702050404.UAA17196@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

This is Howard (of course)

I sell supplies from an unlisted business and no advertising.

I will do all I can and devote as much time as needed to a customer/student
who does not pick me apart for a few pennies. When I get savvy shoppers who
feel everything is negotiable or point out that a square foot of Spectrum is
cheaper 135 miles away in Portland, you all should be aware enough of my
attitude to GUESS what my reply is! Because I sell a lot of one-time hand
made glass, I usually date the left over pieces and mark their name on the
sheet should they need a bit more....most students will eventually buy the
whole sheet as they get more familiar with color phasing and start to build
up their own inventory.

My students are welcome and have access to me during times that are
convenient to them ( I have no posted hours)....I do expect them to be
prompt and after about 30 minutes leeway, I usually darken my shop or do not
answer the door...a few times and they get the idea that my time is also
important.

For most of my years of "glassing", there has been at least one other source
withih 15 miles, and I still kept my people and in a small town area, have a
reputation for being fair and caring. In my prior life I had been an east
coast peddler (successful), so I do know how the game is played and will
gladly participate if encouraged.

enjoy...........H

--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 20:11:59 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:29:44 +0000
Message-ID: <199702050411.EAA14661@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi Hilary  and Mike (and All)

... or how to cheat elegantly and get away with bloody murder!
Just what I tell my students (selectively - of course!)
Love it!!    ;-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

> this is where decorative soldering comes in handy, put it on all the
> seams inclucind the fat ones, and it might look like you meant it to be
> that way.
> 
> ---Mike Savad

Way back in the old days when I was a costume designer in the theater,
we had a much used saying:

If you can't fix it, feature it.

We "featured" a lot of stuff back then, and I continue to "feature" a
lot of stuff now...'specially when it comes to solder! <g>

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 20:12:00 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Catalogs
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:29:44 +0000
Message-ID: <199702050411.EAA14658@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Linda,
That's absolutely great!
The comment came from me.
I was just seeing the name, remembering  comments in the context 
of  an "old chestnut" and wanted to find out what has changed.
As I said in posting addressed to Elenie,  no criticism intended, 
just clarification...
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Linda wrote:
I had heard heresome time back that there was a problem getting a WC 
catalog. I just requesedt one from their web page and got it within a few 
days. I was thrilled with it. Lots of tongue-in-cheek humor (like the old 
Beagle brothers software for Apple IIe's).
Over all the catalog reads like a good book and I will be sure to order 
from them to spread my business around.

http://www.catalogsite.com/Gen/Warner_P1.html



----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 20:12:01 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:29:44 +0000
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Dear Hilary & Albert,

MINOR details, my friend, minor details....
The Kidney Transplant Unit at No. 30 High Street, Anytown, UK, should 
be so darned lucky to be adorned with such a stained glass memorium.
What about your cousin?
Congratulations! That''s quite a feat! Toby requests you should 
gently scratch your cousin's ears in return and say "snuffle". As 
regards kidneys floating about in stained glass, I too have my 
"Waterloo".  I was asked to design a waterfall for an architect 
(together with another 4 panels of totally different designs).
Waterfall, heh! Water is so difficult to capture in glass, especially 
a water FALL.  It just happened to coincide with the illness and death 
of Toby's great aunt Victoria, so "Victoria Falls" came about. I 
still cringe about this particular stained glass panel today; the 
colours are awful, the design questionable, the whole thing a mess. 
There were more tears pouring over this dreadful design than "Water 
Fall". It wasn't much helped by the fact that Victoria's twin-brother  couldn't 
cope and literally died of a broken heart 30 days later. My work-shop 
was awash.
Oh God, what a mess!
That's a stained glass that most definitely will NOT be offered into 
the Atlas!!
Laugh, if you must!
One day I will creep up to this place and secretively remove this 
particular stained glass panel and replace it with something 
better.... It's one panel I find difficult to call my own.
I suppose we all have to have one  like that.....
Elisabeth 'n Toby


> who else among us has use for a "30" floating in a graphic of
> a kidney??? (trust me, it looks better than it sounds, albeit still very
> weird)
>
> Sounds like a great cover for Common Ground: Glass! <g>
> 
> Albert

Trust me, Albert, as much as I liked the piece, as much as my cousin was
totally taken with it, as a cover it just wouldn' fly. It would be the
sort of cover that you would wake up some morning in the future and
start singing many choruses of "What Was I Thinking?."

But, if you want to entertain your brain for a minute, though it took me
days of deliberation, think about color choices. I laugh about it now,
but it wasn't funny then. Needless to say, the yellow family was
out!<vbg
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 20:12:01 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:29:44 +0000
Message-ID: <199702050411.EAA14683@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Precedence: bulk

Hi Gloria,
Maybe it might still be in the Bungi Archives somewhere, but quite a 
number of months ago I posted a "historical rambling" to the effect 
of that the glass manufacturing (for stained glass) died in UK with the 
Advent of Oliver Cromwell. He was was the fellow who went about 
smashing up churches in UK. He didn't only smash up churches, he also 
smashed up and destroyed the manufacturers who made ornamentations 
for the churches, i.e. especially and including  stained glass 
artists studios and glass making studios/workshops. The stained glass 
"industry" in UK never really recovered from this devastation and many 
glass making techniques were lost forever.Compensations were then 
brought into the UK from elsewhere in Europe, especially the 
Flemish/Dutch and German artists. But don't forget, they too suffered 
the vagaries of wars and destructions. A re-birth of sorts in UK 
really only happened in the 19th Century with William Morris. Since 
when there are a couple of British Glass manufacturers producing 
glass for the stained glass industry. But a couple only. But the majority of glass we 
use today are imported from USA, Germany, France, Belgium and 
now Poland. Slowly and often painfully, we are trying to reconstruct 
destroyed past history and bring it into context of the 20th and 21st 
Century.The impact of Tiffany in Britain was quite substantial, not 
so much  in his designs and flamboyance,( which somehow doesn't appear 
to fit well with the British "pallet"), - the conservative Brits still 
find him "over the top", but much more resulting in a new surge of historical 
interest in the stained glass tradition and its revival. John Piper 
and Patrick Reyntiens - the 2 giants in Britain of stained glass of 
the 20th Century, never quite reached the emotional "common man" chord. Too 
academic, too remote, too dry, too abstract - I just don't know. What 
has caught the "common man's" imagination in Britain is the revival 
of the Arts & Crafts Movement, Victorian and Art Nouveau stained 
glass. I myself have been "lauded" for my Arts & Crafts Movement 
interptretations, before I even knew what the term meant. I sit here 
in betwixt and between, often slightly bewildered by my education 
of Swedish and Scandinavian design and aim for simplicity and force 
of simple statements and structures, and most of all - colours.Quite 
frankly, my Swedish education just did not extend to cover the 
British Arts & Crafts Movement.... however extensive that education was.
In Britain, people who like stained glass and chose it as something 
they want to live with, still don't know what they want and why, as 
long as it cannot be interpreted as something "over the top".
My students come all eager on their first day to my courses - they 
want to make a Tiffany-style lamp (you know! the sort off thing you 
just make up in 10 minutes or so!! Nothing to it!) When I discuss it 
with them as an object for them to have in their living room, to 
switch on and off, to live with, they "turn turtle" and back out. 
They like the idea of making one, but they can't quite accept the 
idea of "living" with one. For flamboyance and excuberance of 
coloured glass we have to look outside UK. It's a fascinating facet 
to watch, observe and study for someone like myself, but bewildering 
and often confusing to work with.
Dunno here, hope I have given you the "flavour" of stained glass 
past and present here in Europe. I work mainly in lead, which is not 
to say that I don't follow the copper-foil people very closely. 
History is immensly important, as is attempted destruction of 
history. Stained glass just managed to avoid total extinction in UK, 
but it is still trying to find its way and to find its role....
Elisabeth 'n Toby (2 lost souls in UK)

M.-J. wrote:
> 
> Jerry wrote:
> 
> >(*Sigh* - why is it always cheaper to get things from the US rather than
> >locally in the UK? At least with stained glass, a lot of things are *made* in
> >the US - but why Chinese brush painting stuff should be cheaper via the US
> >is beyond me.
> <snip>

Not to change the subject, but what are your glass manufacturers like... 
Are the European glasses different from the American 
manufacturers...What are your colours like .>
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 20:54:54 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Castles
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:51:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.125143.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I am searching for a pattern for a castle.  Not the fairy tale
looking type, but realistic looking.  Does anyone have one or know where
I can find one?   Bonnie
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 23:29:16 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 02:14:31 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.101431.0>
References: <<199702041436.OAA02612@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd also be interested in recieving a catalog from this source. Mary
Austin  801 Merry Lane Greenwood, IN 46142    diamonds@juno.com




On Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:54:49 +0000 "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk> writes:
> Hi Elenie (and All),
>I think an awful lot of people are very pleased to see a regular 
>input from you and delighted to see you in our "fold".
>Not wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons here,  I am hoping 
>that you might be able to dispel past niggles from  a number of our 
>Group, that of contacting Warner-Crivellaro to try and prise out a 
>Catalog from your Company in the FIRST place. If I remember correctly 
>from thess last 12 months, there has been a certain amount of 
>grumblings 
>about the difficulties and retisence by Warner-Crivellaro to part 
>with their catalogues to us individually. My own last full catalogue 
>dates back to 1994 and the latest "Mini-Catalog" from 1995 which has 
>kindly been forwarded to me from a member of Bungi in USA (who is 
>coming over to UK in a month or so).
>Could you perhaps enlighten us what the situation is now, and thereby 
>- also perhaps - win back the favour of some disgruntled potential 
>customers (especially in USA - never mind us poor relations in 
>UK...).
>Hope I haven't put you on a spot - that was not my intention.
>Elisabeth 'n Toby
>Just want to clear things up!
>If you think Warner-Crivellaro is only known for its unique bevels 
>then
>you really don't know us too well! (snip) So if you have any 
>questions, you know
>how to reach me.
>Elenie
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 02:50:32 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass safety online
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 05:56:19 +0000
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Say, everyone, I just learned that Monona Rossol's outfit, Arts, 
Crafts and Theater Safety is now online ... and it's a pretty 
impressive site! As the home page says, "if you are looking for professional
     information about the hazards posed by toxic materials and
     dangerous equipment used in art and theater, you have found the
     right place!"

There's even a search engine for MSDSs! You can just enter the 
chemical you need information on ... and look it up!

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 04:47:19 1997
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From: Elsie Turqman <ElsieTurqman@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:Scratched glasses
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:46:55 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.124655.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 Gloria

The liquid dish soap probably didn't scratch your glasses.  If you dried
them with paper towels the reinforcing fibers in the paper probably did the
scratching.  I found this out after ruining a new pair of lenses.  Most of
the paper towels on the market are advertising how strong they are, that's
because they are totally paper anymore.  I don't know what they are but they
scratch plastic.  Dry your lenses with clean soft cotton and old dish towel
or old diaper, (yes they still make cloth diapers and they have many uses.

Elsie
>
>Bud,
>I hope you are doing better...Was the plastic lens an  
>surgical insertion...  
>I might have been cleaning my glass with liquid dish soap and water, 
>which might have caused the scratches to the lens.. But I am more 
>worried about the eye conditon you have.. glass lenses can be replaced.. 
>hope you are doing well and Thanks. 
 >

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 06:17:08 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vs89M-0001BGa; Wed, 5 Feb 97 06:16 PST
X-Path: tiac.net!phil7
From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Atlas
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 08:58:11 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.05811.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

My lovely, and self punishing wife, Cindy, says she'll print the Atlas. 
Maybe not called the Atlas, but whatever.  She's a part-time printer, 
with a flair for quality printing.  

If enough of us are interested, why not.

Who'll get the ball rolling?

Don't forget the hot glass! Let's make it for all glass artists.

Phil7

P.S. am I getting in hip deep?

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 07:38:54 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scratched glasses
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 10:32:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.53228.0>
References: <<1997Feb5.124655.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elsie Turqman wrote:
> 
>  Gloria
> 
> The liquid dish soap probably didn't scratch your glasses.  If you dried
> them with paper towels the reinforcing fibers in the paper probably did the
> scratching.  I found this out after ruining a new pair of lenses.  Most of
> the paper towels on the market are advertising how strong they are, that's
> because they are totally paper anymore.  I don't know what they are but they
> scratch plastic.  Dry your lenses with clean soft cotton and old dish towel
> or old diaper, (yes they still make cloth diapers and they have many uses.
> 
> Elsie
> >
> >Bud,
> >I hope you are doing better...Was the plastic lens an
> >surgical insertion...
> >I might have been cleaning my glass with liquid dish soap and water,
> >which might have caused the scratches to the lens.. But I am more
> >worried about the eye conditon you have.. glass lenses can be replaced..
> >hope you are doing well and Thanks.
>  >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


and of course there's reg. tissues. the other thing that might have
scratched them is the grinder. and spray that come out either has tiny
chips of glass, or powder suspended in water. once wiped off that will
scratch too.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 07:47:53 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vs9ZP-0001Fra; Wed, 5 Feb 97 07:47 PST
X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Opps, I was wrong about WC
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:49:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.54944.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

So sorry folks, I was wrong about getting a copy of warner-criv. from the 
web page so fast. It was Whittemore-Durgin and I love their catalog. It's 
full of wit and things I haven't seen elsewhere. Hope you will check it 
out.

http://www.penrose.com/glass/


Linda Campbell


begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
M>)\^(BX/`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0`
M`@````(``@`!!) &``@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/
M`0```#T`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC
M;VT`4TU44 !G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT`````'@`", $````%````4TU44 ``
M```>``,P`0```! ```!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT``P`5# $````#`/X/!@``
M`!X``3 !````$@```"=G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VTG`````@$+, $````5````
M4TU44#I'3$%34T!"54Y'22Y#3TT``````P``.0`````+`$ Z`0````(!]@\!
M````! ````````-\*P$(@ <`& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E
M`#$(`02 `0`;````3W!P<RP@22!W87,@=W)O;F<@86)O=70@5T,`Y @!!8 #
M``X```#-!P(`!0`*`#$`+ `#`$4!`2" `P`.````S0<"``4`"@`N`!P``P`R
M`0$)@ $`(0```$4T-T,U-T1#-# W1D0P,3%"0D4P,#!$1# Q,34Y-4,X`"X'
M`0.0!@`0`P``$@````L`(P```````P`F```````+`"D```````,`-@``````
M0 `Y`."9QS1\$[P!'@!P``$````;````3W!P<RP@22!W87,@=W)O;F<@86)O
M=70@5T,```(!<0`!````%@````&\$WPTMMQ7?.9_0!'0N^ `W0$5E<@``!X`
M'@P!````!0```%--5% `````'@`?# $````2````;&-B96QL0&UE;6%C:"YC
M;VT````#``8099RL@@,`!Q#8````'@`($ $```!E````4T]33U)2649/3$M3
M+$E705-74D].1T%"3U541T545$E.1T%#3U!93T9705).15(M0U))5D923TU4
M2$5714)004=%4T]&05-4251705-72$E45$5-3U)%+4154D=)3D%.1$E,3P``
M```"`0D0`0```)8!``"2`0``+P(``$Q:1G6S"=YW_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0
M`O()`@!C: K <V5T,C<&``;#`H,R`\4"`'!R0G$1XG-T96T"@S.W`N0'$P*#
M-!+,%,5]"H"+",\)V3L7GS(U-0* !PJ!#;$+8&YG,3 S;Q10"PH58@P!8P! 
M!@!O1"!S!;!R>2 "$&P`:W,L($D@=V'M!"!W`V :H" !H A@!4!:9Q' = N 
M'B$@!:!PN1SP;V8=D02@!) M!0$,=BX=``-A('1H9?$=D&5B( JP'J <H1T`
M-1VP="!P205 ':)7:(YI`D 3X 6P92U$"'!F9PN 'C!N9!UQ%S!VRR$`(.%I
M!<!C80&0%S"*9R(B)P0@9G5L`R#_'Y(BT"/#(. >X00@'8 1@#DD4&XG!4 1
ML GP(&6Z;!&P=R#P%Z @<$@?4'TA`'D(8"8Q)>$1< 60:[8@)E$>82X*A0J%
M: ) H' Z+R]W*] N*/ 6;@-@$; N!:!M+V>C"V $$"]<"BJ,3 N @F0?($-A
M;7!B*" 7%X M1A;!`"_@```#`! 0``````,`$1 `````0 `',"!*9<![$[P!
>0 `(,"!*9<![$[P!'@`]``$````!`````````.?$
`
end

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 12:18:39 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vsDnI-0001G5a; Wed, 5 Feb 97 12:18 PST
X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Opps, I was wrong about WC
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 15:16:17 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.201617.0>
References: <<1997Feb5.54944.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for clearing that up.  I was wondering what was wrong with me (?)
that it took me 5 months to get one!

Jerri

On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:49:44 -0500 Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
writes:
>So sorry folks, I was wrong about getting a copy of warner-criv. from 
>the 
>web page so fast. It was Whittemore-Durgin and I love their catalog. 
>It's 
>full of wit and things I haven't seen elsewhere. Hope you will check 
>it 
>out.
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 12:18:39 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vsDnG-0001Isa; Wed, 5 Feb 97 12:18 PST
X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic glass cutters
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 15:16:17 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.201617.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.1640.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bob,

	What is *Thin-Set*?  Like a glue? Then do you grout over the
glass?  Were you talking about using glass on stones that were already
made?  I've been reading with interest about the mosaic cutters.  I've
been making stones using my scrap glass to fill the background and
thought I might like some.  I cut my background pieces pretty small.  So
far I've poured my own cement and haven't tried making any with pre-made
stones.  

Jerri




On Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:04:00 -0500 (EST) CUTLER@Wittenberg.EDU writes:
>Hi. Bob Cutler here.  <snip>
>The trouble with this pattern book - and
>others, I imagine - is that it really doesn't encourage the
>use of those pesky scraps which I refuse to throw away :) :).
>SO since I own a pair of the mosaic glass cutters, and wanted to
>use them, I decided to experiment:
>I bought a hexagonal patio stone.  I bought a bag of Thin-Set
>which is used to lay ceramic tile over concrete surfaces. I gathered
>my scraps and trimmed them to suit and hatched a pattern on the spot
>After laying out a rough design, I prepared the thin-set and 
>applied it to the stone, followed by the glass.  It was a bit messy
>but that was my fault for using too much thin-set.  I made sure that
>there was an empty space between each piece of glass.  After a
>bit of time called for on the thin-set package I applied grout.
>I like the result well enough to try again.  It takes less time,
>allows the use of the cutters, and is as much fun as the more formal
>patterns.
>
>In short I love the cutters.  
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 16:05:53 1997
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	id m0vsHKC-00012Wa; Wed, 5 Feb 97 16:04 PST
X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns/kidneys/hearts
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 18:32:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.143211.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.4307.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

So, Mary, do you think there is a market for weird but totally useless
panels? somehow I don't think that we will make our millions on this
idea!<g>

> Hilary's comments about "who else would want" were my thoughts exactly
> when I considered my favorite originals.....
> 
> But, no, I don't think anybody is gonna wanna run out and reproduce these.
> 
> Mary
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 16:07:56 1997
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	id m0vsHNH-0001Oja; Wed, 5 Feb 97 16:07 PST
X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 18:36:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.14365.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.162223.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> 
> Hi, I am new to this group, why would Elizabeth scratch Toby behind the
> ears..Remember, I am 3hounds.

Oh, dear, if you don't know that Toby is an Old English Sheepdog, that
comment might even be weirder than the kindney panel!

There is a rather nice picture of Toby on Elisabeth's home page...along
with stained glass, of course. <g>

Hilary
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 16:23:02 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vsHbr-0001C8a; Wed, 5 Feb 97 16:22 PST
X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 18:51:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.145129.0>
References: <<199702050411.EAA14670@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

Please don't get my wrong, Elisabeth. I am very partial to my kidney
panel. Yes, it is totally weird, however, I am not going to try to sneak
it out of my cousin's house. I trust that he will be able to "enjoy" it
for a long time to come! Hummmm, it occurs to me that he lives out of
town and the panel may be gracing a closet! Nah. He'll hang it. It falls
in the realm of "conversation piece."

My cousin is quite well. Thanks for asking. Quite well for him is not
what would be considered quite well for a lot of other people, but
considering that he was about to die a long time ago.....He has spent
the last year falling in love with a new woman and will be getting
married within the year. I hope that she has a sense of humor or the
panel's days are numbered!

Hilary

> Dear Hilary & Albert,
> 
> MINOR details, my friend, minor details....
> The Kidney Transplant Unit at No. 30 High Street, Anytown, UK, should
> be so darned lucky to be adorned with such a stained glass memorium.
> What about your cousin?
> Congratulations! That''s quite a feat! Toby requests you should
> gently scratch your cousin's ears in return and say "snuffle". As
> regards kidneys floating about in stained glass, I too have my
> "Waterloo"....
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 17:06:05 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vsIHP-0001E2a; Wed, 5 Feb 97 17:05 PST
X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds
From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 20:09:28 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.18928.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.52310.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> I had heard heresome time back that there was a problem getting a WC
> catalog. I just requesedt one from their web page and got it within a few
> days. I was thrilled with it. Lots of tongue-in-cheek humor (like the old
> Beagle brothers software for Apple IIe's).
> Over all the catalog reads like a good book and I will be sure to order
> from them to spread my business around.

I have been their one of their customers since I started...I never had a 
problem with receiving their catalog..In fact at last Christmas's order, 
their clerk said to wait and their new and better catalog would be 
arriving and it did.
> 
> http://www.catalogsite.com/Gen/Warner_P1.html
> 
> Linda Campbell
> 
> Toby wrote:
> <Not wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons here,  I am hoping
> that you might be able to dispel past niggles from  a number of our
> Group, that of contacting Warner-Crivellaro to try and prise out a
> Catalog from your Company in the FIRST place. If I remember correctly
> from thess last 12 months, there has been a certain amount of grumblings
> about the difficulties and retisence by Warner-Crivellaro to part
> with their catalogues to us individually. My own last full catalogue
> dates back to 1994 and the latest "Mini-Catalog" from 1995 which > snip
> 
> begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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> M;VT`4TU44 !G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT`````'@`", $````%````4TU44 ``
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> M`!X``3 !````$@```"=G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VTG`````@$+, $````5````
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> M````! ````````-\*P$(@ <`& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E
> M`#$(`02 `0`-````4D4Z($-A=&%L;V=S`!\$`06 `P`.````S0<"``0`"@`7
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> M( `?4-)N',!G;P5 :05 `_"7'G +@!]19@?19&$3L.\A0A\B'G %$&P?P!S
> M)**;)&$A0$PD0 0@;V8=P-4"(&<*4"T+@"T1< G@&1Y0:'4$8 7 *&QIKFL=
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> M00-@=20`+*8*A8)H`D!P.B\O=S5@/BX@U0"0$] UD -P+T<9"? O5PK (H!R
> M7U"D,2XT\&UL-!Q,"X#!)7 @0V%M<#"0)G M-!Q4'Z R\'<JD64Z?0J%/ M&
> M%%$+\A^!$]!C_05 3B1!`_$DT2!@,D(1P#\MIA]0!& :H"&A*9)P:<\@``(@
> M!" =0BP@''$Y$+T<D&\_<"!1"H4><WD(8'\RT#^ -/ P@@&@*E$Q$62]! !P
> M.5 CD2&A`P!G*D'W!" BLQ]1;BC@,) %P">AZPAA-'9',[%P0# ><R>AGP6@
> M`C `T" S-N0M0P40SRTP)G SH3$"='(R\"/R]Q-0! `IL74^D31V.0`N%-\B
> MLT'A2L$#< JP;C+P).'!*9)&25)35!]P"V#^8S9 '' GL!R %Z '@$43]P6A
> M%Z \T&PR\ J%(K8$$;L+8"&A,1'@/L$><'-&DO\>XA& !" PD GP'U%-@ `@
> M_PMQ/J(ST$;C"<!%`2E /N$_-'8!H$H2*9)#, W0:6/\=6P=T >1(_(7H!W0
> M$;#^;DV 'A R\$?O,0(*L05 _PJ%)L,C!"#5(@$Q`B&03'&A0S!V:61U+7%Y
> M(4"R33+P;W<#H%!C9E6P_P,@6?<T=@K[/!TE<!/04>'#'C,Q(#$Y.30CXRF2
> MIPM@7^$%0")-"X!I2$#M(.0B(J1@H34?$"30$7#;"N$;?SXK``,`<%V5%L$"
> M`&80`````P`0$ `````#`!$0`````$ `!S @V2V@KA*\`4 `"# @V2V@KA*\
> 7`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B `````J94`
> `
> end
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 17:30:29 1997
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From: CUTLER@Wittenberg.EDU
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic glass cutters
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 20:29:44 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.152944.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

"Thin-Set" is the trade name for a powder/cement that is mixed with a
latex liquid and water to form a paste the consistency of cake icing :)
(I'm hungry, I think) Spread a thin coat on a large patio stone, set your glass
and clear the spaces between pieces to take grout after the thin-set
has dried (36-48 hours according to the bag's directions).  I use a piece 
of wood along the edges to act as a temporary form to allow a level
coat around the whole piece.  A margin, in effect.  I work out the
pattern on a sheet of cardboard the size of the stone.  The trick
seems to be to transfer the material to the stone.  But it is fun
because there is a great deal of latitude in design so you can make
adjustments as you go along.  The cutters really help out  in trimming
pieces to fill those unexpected gaps.  
BTW you can buy thin-set at [places like Lowes or Furrows.  The latex
additive is rather expensive unless you can buy smaller amounts than a gallon.
Have fun!
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 17:37:42 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic glass cutters
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:36:01 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.15361.0>
References: <<1997Feb5.201617.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Today I took a busman's holiday and visited our friend Christie's favorite
place, Inspirations (Eagleville PA). The owner answered my questions about
the pricey Leponitt cutters, then said the magic words, "Would you like to
try them?"

They are so fast and easy to use that I couldn't wait, I paid retail on
'em and was glad to get them! 

Mary


On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Jerri M Roey wrote:

> Hi Bob,
> 
> 	What is *Thin-Set*?  Like a glue? Then do you grout over the
> glass?  Were you talking about using glass on stones that were already
> made?  I've been reading with interest about the mosaic cutters.  I've
> been making stones using my scrap glass to fill the background and
> thought I might like some.  I cut my background pieces pretty small.  So
> far I've poured my own cement and haven't tried making any with pre-made
> stones.  
> 
> Jerri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:04:00 -0500 (EST) CUTLER@Wittenberg.EDU writes:
> >Hi. Bob Cutler here.  <snip>
> >The trouble with this pattern book - and
> >others, I imagine - is that it really doesn't encourage the
> >use of those pesky scraps which I refuse to throw away :) :).
> >SO since I own a pair of the mosaic glass cutters, and wanted to
> >use them, I decided to experiment:
> >I bought a hexagonal patio stone.  I bought a bag of Thin-Set
> >which is used to lay ceramic tile over concrete surfaces. I gathered
> >my scraps and trimmed them to suit and hatched a pattern on the spot
> >After laying out a rough design, I prepared the thin-set and 
> >applied it to the stone, followed by the glass.  It was a bit messy
> >but that was my fault for using too much thin-set.  I made sure that
> >there was an empty space between each piece of glass.  After a
> >bit of time called for on the thin-set package I applied grout.
> >I like the result well enough to try again.  It takes less time,
> >allows the use of the cutters, and is as much fun as the more formal
> >patterns.
> >
> >In short I love the cutters.  
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> ----
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> 

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 20:42:38 1997
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X-Path: win.bright.net!hdevos
From: "Harold De Vos" <hdevos@win.bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Scratched glasses
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:33:31 -0600
Message-ID: <199702060442.WAA12093@bucky.win.bright.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

re: Bud's eye : one eye blinded by solder fumes??
Yes it was a surgical insertion and a miracle.  They injected something,
then told me I could go to sleep if i wished.

But Then turned on the brightest light I have ever seen. I thought >  no
way I could sleep, but within 10 seconds, I could care less about what he
was doing and did snooze!  Just two hours later, i could see the beautiful
world again and with BOTH eyes.  It actually made my sight better because
the new lens was made to correct some, but not all of my near sightedness!

Take care!
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 21:01:04 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!rockingbird
From: rockingbird@juno.com (Terry L Biegler)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 23:52:16 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb6.45216.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.92640.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I agree with everything you said 100%. I kid around that glass selection
takes me longer than the whole rest of the project together. But it does
take me a long time. I think it's the most important part. I have never
bought glass through the mail. Each piece of glass I buy has to have a
certain something about it, especially if it is for a particular
project.. I have seen nice pieces done but with poor glass choices that
ruined the whole look of the piece.

Terry
                                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~      
       ~                     ~              Jim & Terry Biegler         ~
                    ~~       ~        ~          ~         ~       
Rockingbird Studio    ~        ~         ~          ~           ~     ~  
                ~                            Ft. Worth, TX               
            ~                        ~                                   
           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, 01 Feb 1997 22:55:56 -0500 shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net> writes:
>I have contributed to this this list and rec.crafts.glass at times, 
>but
>I lurk more than contribute.
>I add to the discourse, when I think I can add something, and will 
>defer
>to someone who seems to be better informed than I. I don't spend 
>enough
>time doing glass, as I unfortunately have too many hobbies and
>interests. I brew my own beer, restore cars, have family who like to 
>see
>me in daylight, and a day job that takes away from my hobby time. But
>,IMHO, there are some subjects I put my $0.02 in. One is glass
>selection. I don't do as much work as Mike Savad and others who grace
>this forum, but what I do, since I don't do volume, is very important 
>to
>me. I am not saying that anybody else's work is not as important, (I'm
>not gunshy of flame wars, am I?), but glass selection is a major step 
>to
>me, because I basically do 'keeper' projects, or gifts. When I started
>my first Tiffany style lamp, I spent a large part of a Saturday
>afternoon selecting glass. If I am doing a window, or panel that
>sunlight will show through, I will go to my local studio on a fairly
>bright day, and take the sheets to the front of the shop, wher the
>natural light shines, and hold the glass up and look through it, as
>incandescent light has different properties than the sun. On the other
>hand, if doing a lamp, I will use a bulb of similar wattage as the
>fixture will hold, to mimic what the lamp will look like when done and
>lit. I will hold sheets of colors that will be ajacent, or complement
>each other to the light together, so I don't get something that 
>clashes.
>I am doing a Daffodil Tiffany Odessey lamp, and spent a half hour over
>two sheets of yellow and white ring mottled, deciding which sheet 
>would
>work better for the bell ends of the trumpets.
>All well and good, but what if I live a gazillion miles from the 
>nearest
>studio? If you are plan on doing a lot of projects, most glass 
>companies
>sell 'sampler packs' that will give you a better feel of what may not 
>be
>too descriptive a style, a la 'wispy'. This is not as good to me, as
>there are variations among/within batches of glass, but it's better 
>than
>ordering blind. If you do seasonal suncatchers, red and white for 
>Santa
>Claus is not so critical. If I'm going to look at a window for a
>significant portion of my life, I don't want to be second guessing my
>glass choice. Some projects, it's not critcal, but for some glass 
>choice
>can 'make' the difference between, 'gee that's nice' and 'OH WOW'. I 
>am
>finishing a window panel that used $200 in glass and lead alone. This 
>is
>for my best friends anniversary. 
>
>Is there a point to this rambling, you say? Yes, and the message is
>Support your local shop. I learned in a small studio, and it is still
>the first place I go. No I'm not a purist (a large discount on solder 
>is
>a large discount on solder). If I can't get what I need, I will shop
>elsewhere, at one of his competitors, or mail order. He knows this. 
>I'm
>not knocking the people who run a business, and add a lot to this 
>forum,
>but your local shop is the one you probably go to when you've broken 
>the
>last piece of that color, or your iron tip burns out in the final
>beading of a panel due to be picked up tomorrow. I see the same issues
>in rec.crafts.brewing - who's got the best price on grain? But where 
>do
>you run when fermantation is stuck and you have $35 in specialty grain
>sitting in a fermenter not looking like beer? If you don't support 
>your
>local shops, they may not be there when you need them. Buy mail order
>when you use volume, but Support your local businesses.
>Standard diclaimer - I am not an employee, nor spokesman, and opinions
>expessed are mine, and apologies if I've offended
>anyone                   
><Major snip below>
>> > The problem is, that even with the vaunted Photoshop, everything's 
>an
>> > approximation. If you, Mike, and I were standing side by side, 
>both
>> > looking at an identical piece of glass, we might differ on what 
>its
>> > exact color would be called; is it greenish-blue or bluish-green? 
>Is
>> > it aqua with white striping or teal with ivory striping? Once you
>> > photograph it, the film you use affects its colors, as do the
>> > camera's settings; when you scan the photo and call it into
>> > Photoshop, how do you decide which brightness level, hue setting 
>or
>> > intensity of color saturation is "correct"?
>> >
>> > Naturally, you would do all of those things according to your
>> > judgement, taste, and perception. So would I. But we might 
>disagree
>> > on which result was most like the original piece of glass, since
>> > every step along the way is merely an approximation of the 
>previous
>> > step ... and none of them would look like the actual glass itself.
>> >
>> > That's both frustrating and a challenge to those of us who try to
>> > represent glass and glasswork as accurately and beautifully as
>> > possible, whether in print or on the web.
>> >
>> > Albert
>> >
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 22:21:24 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic glass cutters
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:20:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.202017.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Aren't they wonderful!?  They were the first tool that I was shown when I
started looking into working with glass and I bought them on the spot.
 Absolutely magical the way they just bite right through the glass with NO
effort at all!  Anyone doing mosaic work should really look into these.
 Actually, I'd recommend them for anyone working in glass, period.

Susie
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 22:47:20 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scratched glasses
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:46:09 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.20469.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Have you ever heard a better argument for ALWAYS wearing protective eyewear
while you work!  Better the glasses get scratched than your corneas.  :-)

<< 
 and of course there's reg. tissues. the other thing that might have
 scratched them is the grinder. and spray that come out either has tiny
 chips of glass, or powder suspended in water. once wiped off that will
 scratch too.
 
 ---Mike Savad
  >>

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 23:32:07 1997
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From: JeongJie Lee <jjlee@www.wnprod.co.kr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Conservation materials for the glass surface after sandblasting ?
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:33:32 +0900
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.03332.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: RDIC
Precedence: bulk

Hello!

I needs your help for the conservation materials on the sandblasted
frosted flat glass surface without coloring which can keep from spots
and stain and scratch too.
I dont want to use Hydrofluolic Acid because of danger.
It would be very helpful for me if you inform me about how you do finish 
the sandblasted glass surface.

In the mean time, I have checked clear lacuer for coating material.
Is there any other solution? 
Pls help me.

Looking forward to hearing good news.
 
Best Regards,
JeongJi Lee
RDIC
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 00:02:46 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Opps, I was wrong about WC
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 02:27:26 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb6.102726.0>
References: <<1997Feb5.54944.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Would they have a 1-800 number in which to call?? If so would you send it
please? I appreciate your help.
Mary   diamonds@juno.com



On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:49:44 -0500 Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
writes:
>So sorry folks, I was wrong about getting a copy of warner-criv. from 
>the 
>web page so fast. It was Whittemore-Durgin and I love their catalog. 
>It's 
>full of wit and things I haven't seen elsewhere. Hope you will check 
>it 
>out.
>
>http://www.penrose.com/glass/
>
>
>Linda Campbell
>
>
>begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
>M>)\^(BX/`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0`
>M`@````(``@`!!) &``@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/
>M`0```#T`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC
>M;VT`4TU44 !G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT`````'@`", $````%````4TU44 ``
>M```>``,P`0```! ```!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT``P`5# $````#`/X/!@``
>M`!X``3 !````$@```"=G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VTG`````@$+, $````5````
>M4TU44#I'3$%34T!"54Y'22Y#3TT``````P``.0`````+`$ Z`0````(!]@\!
>M````! ````````-\*P$(@ <`& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E
>M`#$(`02 `0`;````3W!P<RP@22!W87,@=W)O;F<@86)O=70@5T,`Y @!!8 #
>M``X```#-!P(`!0`*`#$`+ `#`$4!`2" `P`.````S0<"``4`"@`N`!P``P`R
>M`0$)@ $`(0```$4T-T,U-T1#-# W1D0P,3%"0D4P,#!$1# Q,34Y-4,X`"X'
>M`0.0!@`0`P``$@````L`(P```````P`F```````+`"D```````,`-@``````
>M0 `Y`."9QS1\$[P!'@!P``$````;````3W!P<RP@22!W87,@=W)O;F<@86)O
>M=70@5T,```(!<0`!````%@````&\$WPTMMQ7?.9_0!'0N^ `W0$5E<@``!X`
>M'@P!````!0```%--5% `````'@`?# $````2````;&-B96QL0&UE;6%C:"YC
>M;VT````#``8099RL@@,`!Q#8````'@`($ $```!E````4T]33U)2649/3$M3
>M+$E705-74D].1T%"3U541T545$E.1T%#3U!93T9705).15(M0U))5D923TU4
>M2$5714)004=%4T]&05-4251705-72$E45$5-3U)%+4154D=)3D%.1$E,3P``
>M```"`0D0`0```)8!``"2`0``+P(``$Q:1G6S"=YW_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0
>M`O()`@!C: K <V5T,C<&``;#`H,R`\4"`'!R0G$1XG-T96T"@S.W`N0'$P*#
>M-!+,%,5]"H"+",\)V3L7GS(U-0* !PJ!#;$+8&YG,3 S;Q10"PH58@P!8P! 
>M!@!O1"!S!;!R>2 "$&P`:W,L($D@=V'M!"!W`V :H" !H A@!4!:9Q' = N 
>M'B$@!:!PN1SP;V8=D02@!) M!0$,=BX=``-A('1H9?$=D&5B( JP'J <H1T`
>M-1VP="!P205 ':)7:(YI`D 3X 6P92U$"'!F9PN 'C!N9!UQ%S!VRR$`(.%I
>M!<!C80&0%S"*9R(B)P0@9G5L`R#_'Y(BT"/#(. >X00@'8 1@#DD4&XG!4 1
>ML GP(&6Z;!&P=R#P%Z @<$@?4'TA`'D(8"8Q)>$1< 60:[8@)E$>82X*A0J%
>M: ) H' Z+R]W*] N*/ 6;@-@$; N!:!M+V>C"V $$"]<"BJ,3 N @F0?($-A
>M;7!B*" 7%X M1A;!`"_@```#`! 0``````,`$1 `````0 `',"!*9<![$[P!
>>0 `(,"!*9<![$[P!'@`]``$````!`````````.?$
>`
>end
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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>
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 01:42:13 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Opps, I was wrong about WC
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 04:48:00 +0000
Message-ID: <199702060941.EAA18398@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


> Would they have a 1-800 number in which to call??

You bet: Whittemore-Durgin Glass Co., PO Box 2065 NN, Hanover MA
                      02339. Phone: (617) 871-1790. (800) 225-0380.
                      Fax: (800) 786-3457. Email: jhepburn@penrose.com
                      Website: http://www.penrose.com/glass 

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 06:39:23 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Conservation materials for the glass surface after
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:38:53 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb6.143853.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


JeongJi Lee,

I know there are a number of people in this group that would be happy to
give you advise, but perhaps you could give us more details?

Do you have a sandblasted piece that you are trying to clean or protect with
some type of coating?  Is this something you have sandblasted yourself, or
are you trying to preserve something you found?

If you can give us more details, I know you will get some helpful replies.
Your English is fine, your question is just a little vague.

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

At 06:33 AM 2/6/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hello!
>
>I needs your help for the conservation materials on the sandblasted
>frosted flat glass surface without coloring which can keep from spots
>and stain and scratch too.
>I dont want to use Hydrofluolic Acid because of danger.
>It would be very helpful for me if you inform me about how you do finish 
>the sandblasted glass surface.
>
>In the mean time, I have checked clear lacuer for coating material.
>Is there any other solution? 
>Pls help me.
>
>Looking forward to hearing good news.
> 
>Best Regards,
>JeongJi Lee
>RDIC
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 08:01:06 1997
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From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass safety online
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:00:31 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970206110152.2f7fdc00@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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 Hi Albert, 
                Do you have the web address for the page you describe here?

                                                                            
            Thanks, 
                                                                            
            Barbara

At 05:56 AM 2/5/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Say, everyone, I just learned that Monona Rossol's outfit, Arts, 
>Crafts and Theater Safety is now online ... and it's a pretty 
>impressive site! As the home page says, "if you are looking for professional
>     information about the hazards posed by toxic materials and
>     dangerous equipment used in art and theater, you have found the
>     right place!"
>
>There's even a search engine for MSDSs! You can just enter the 
>chemical you need information on ... and look it up!
>
>Albert
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life, Cornell University
255-5960

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 11:05:19 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass safety online
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>                 Do you have the web address for the page you describe here?

Yes, I posted it yesterday, so you've probably already got it. Sorry 
I left it off in the first place.  It's also at the head of the 
Guild's home page (URL below my signature).

Monona Rossol's ACTS glass safety: http://www.caseweb.com/acts

Albert

 
Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 16:10:41 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:26:00 +0000
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Dear pj Friend,
Chartres trip is on course. We will be stay at the Isis Hotel in 
Centre of Chartres between 2-5 April. Contact me now, later or during 
visit. As I have said to you before - will leave no stone unturned to 
try and meet up with you....
Photography: Yes, I take on board what you say. Maybe you missed my 
point about Professional Photographers over here virtuially admitting 
defeat  about the success of photographing stained glass.
1. I always photograph  my work BEFORE it leaves my work-shop.
2. It further needs photographing "in situ". For a photographer that 
could involve a round-trip of several humndreds of miles. End Result: 
I would pay more for the journey and less for the photography. I 
cannot afford that. I am basically a One-woman-operation.
I learned basic photography techniques from my ex-husband BBC 
Television expert in the 1960's. He also taught me that if I want it 
"RIGHT", I got to do it myself...
I am also a keen amateur photographer as a hobby (because of what he 
taught me...) and have  produced the odd prize-winning 
photo-composition over the years. As regards photographing my own 
stained glass, it is something I do feel quite strongly about. For a 
professional photographer it is - at the end of the day - only 
"another job"....
I don't quite have the "right" detachment to my stained glass. I am 
not quite able to "let go" of them once I have completed them. I have 
to be there when they are installed, they are very much my "babies" 
until they are mature, settled and acclamitized. That process also 
includes photography. I supply each of my customers with a 
photograph for insurance purposes. That photograph also has to be 
good enough to be an addition to my portfolio. I can't afford to pay 
a professional photographer milage, petrol, expenses, hotel bills to 
take an indifferent photograph of questionnable quality and lighting 
already previously discussed and weaknesses admitted.
It really is a job I have to get to grips with myself. 
There is no passing the buck............
I have had 3-4 valuable input from Glass@Bungi about change of films, 
approaches, lighting and so on. Anything and every contribution on 
this level is very valued and will be explored. Hiring a 
"Professional Photographer" in my conception of my work, is simply 
not an option.

May I at this stage dare to reply to an earlier input of yours, 
concerning "support your local supplier".  Much has been said in the 
mean-time  by other people. The latest in-put actually summarized my 
deepest feelings about this subject.
                                "Support is a 2-Way Traffic"
I am a stained glass artist in my own right, searching for supplies, 
glass and accessories on that one level.
I am also a teacher, teaching a whole new generation of stained glass 
professionals or hobbyists. For a Stained Glass Supplier I might 
carry to him - as a gift - a potential new customer base of about 100 
- 200 NEW customers per year.  Is that NOT support????
On THAT level;, should HE not support ME????
MY gripe has been that he doesn't; he takes a short-term, get rich 
quick attitude and behaves like a rip-off merchant.
A bit of thought, a bit of strategy, a bit of long-term-planning and 
my little local supplier  would be well frequented, well-supported 
and well recommended.
I repeat: Support is a 2-way Traffic. 
I didn't coin that phrase. I am indebted to the one in Glass@Bungi 
who did.
Take Care
Elisabeth 'n Toby
Elisabeth wrote,
>Good Heavens, you just spoke the lament of my soul..... However hard 
>I try, only too often do my photographs screw up. I have spoken to 
>more professional photographers than I have had hot dinners. >>

We have found that hiring a professional is the "best" way to go.  No matter
how hard we try our photos just come out ok.  As you can tell from our Web
Site I am sure you would be able to tell the difference from the
professional photos.
There are just not enough hours in the day to learn everything...that is why
there are professional  photographers. Sort of a trade. I would never expect
them to be able to create what we do either.  And at this point we really
don't have the time to sit on site and wait for the right lighting either.
Or do we care to.  


How are you arrangements for your trip coming???  My offer still
stands....we could meet and chat about some of the great things in Chartre
you should not miss!!!  
Hope all is well.

my best,
pj

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As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 16:10:41 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:26:00 +0000
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Hi Hilary,
Toby says very much thank you for the  "ear-scratch" and the extra 
"plug" to admire HIS (repeat: HIS)  web-page.......
The story of your cousin I find quite amazing and therefore your 
"kidney-panel" totally appropriate. Be proud of it ( and the 
"new-wife-to-be" had better have a sense of humour or I'll send a 
horde of Vikings to "deal" with her!!).
I wish I could be proud of my "Victoria Falls" panel, but it 
positively makes me cringe......
Now and then, I do get it right. I delivered a round port-hole 3 
ft-diameter panel last week to a customer. He and his wife 
have spent a lot of time in New Zealand (spelling?) and had studied a 
lot of marine life. They had fallen in love with humped-backed 
whales, which  was what they wanted me to do as a design. Quite 
contrary to my normal custom, I didn't show them my final design, nor 
did I seek their approval for my colour-mix. Quite out of character, 
I just went ahead and made it. So he (and his wife) had no idea what 
they were going to get. My heart in my socks, I started to unwrap my 
offering in front of this great, big, muscular 6ft 4 in. man. He just 
stood there and looked as I struggled with the weight and said not a 
word. I panicked and thought - Oh God, he doesn't like it!! When he 
finally spoke, he was choking..... I had to put the panel down and 
disappear out to the car and pretend I was getting tools out..... (In 
reality, I was fumbling around for the large box of tissues....). 
What a wonderful reward!!

As Regards "The Bungi Atlas Of Stained Glass", there was a little 
serious streak in me that spoke out.....
YES! Let's have  some crazy  & fun ideas, but let's get serious too.
Look at it this way; there is such a gold-mine of talent, dedication, 
love (of the medium), good-will, imagination, drawing skills, 
designing skills and sense of adventure amongst ALL  of our 
Bungi-crowd, that would make such a project as this immensely 
exciting. What a wonderful gift to pass on..... and what a promotion 
for Stained Glass!!
There is about 20 hard-core energetic participants in the 
"Bungi-Group", a strong voice from Canada, Australia and New Zealand,
 about a dozen occasional "learners/hobbyists" from anywhere and 
everywhere, , a quiet sprinkling from  Holland, Poland, UK (hmmm!)
 and Korea (!). If each and everyone of ALL of us "donated"  1-2 of 
our OWN ddesigns each to the Atlas, we could end up with a collection 
of well over 100s of designs (if not more) across the World and across 
all abilities, designed and actually made by REAL stained glass folks 
(as opposed to conveyor-belt commercial graphic designers...).
I would like to see contributions across the entire spectrum of 
knowledge, experience, ability and vision.
As I see it, we need to establish first of all a kind of a "Birth 
Team" ( Editor, Co-Ordinator, Progress Chaser, Administrator,  
Finance Advisor, Promotions Expert, Publisher, Printer, Mediator and 
Time Keeper).
Then we need to decide on Subject Matters ;  Copper-foil: ( sub-divided 
into lamps, 3d objects, sun catchers, fan-lamps etc)
Lead (sub-divided into architectural (religeous, domestic, 
commercial), 3-d and what I call New-Lead sun-catcher field;
as well as
Etching
engraving
sand-blasting
mosaics
painting (kiln and non-kiln)
hot glass
bead-making
any more??

Initially, just as a kind of "sampler"  by stained glass artists 
speaking to those out there interested in what Stained Glass is all 
about. There are a fair number of "learned tomes" by the Giants, old 
and new. THIS should be a light-hearted, informative, inspirational 
"idea-nurturing" Atlas that says ... "YESSSS!!!" I can do it!!
The initial publication would not be geared to earning us mega-bucks. 
It wouldn't earn us a single cent. It would be a promotional offering 
and any money arising out of it, to be put in a "Trust Fund" to 
finance a talented stained glass aspirant to learn/study more.
Terribly idealistic??
Yeah, maybe...
Possible???    You Bet!!
In-put?? That depends on YOU....
More ideas???    ...Up to YOU....

(Dear "T" in Montana,  you will receive a hand-drawn copy of  my 
Tree-of-Life design. It wouldn't photocopy............ is in 
hand..........)

Forgotten now who asked for the first "ball" to be thrown. I have 
thrown ONE ball.. Any others...??
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Hilary wrote:
Please don't get my wrong, Elisabeth. I am very partial to my kidney
panel. Yes, it is totally weird, however, I am not going to try to sneak
it out of my cousin's house. I trust that he will be able to "enjoy" it
for a long time to come! Hummmm, it occurs to me that he lives out of
town and the panel may be gracing a closet! Nah. He'll hang it. It falls
in the realm of "conversation piece."

My cousin is quite well. Thanks for asking. Quite well for him is not
what would be considered quite well for a lot of other people, but
considering that he was about to die a long time ago.....He has spent
the last year falling in love with a new woman and will be getting
married within the year. I hope that she has a sense of humor or the
panel's days are numbered!

Hilary

> Dear Hilary & Albert,
> 
> MINOR details, my friend, minor details....
> The Kidney Transplant Unit at No. 30 High Street, Anytown, UK, should
> be so darned lucky to be adorned with such a stained glass memorium.
> What about your cousin?
> Congratulations! That''s quite a feat! Toby requests you should
> gently scratch your cousin's ears in return and say "snuffle". As
> regards kidneys floating about in stained glass, I too have my
> "Waterloo"....
----
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 16:11:16 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:26:00 +0000
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Hi "3hounds"

When I first got launched on the "Internet", I was in the care of a 
"perfect English Gentleman", who felt the need to protect me as a 
woman, as an artiste and as a potential victim in the Internet 
Jungle. He is also a very senior computer consultant with a large 
international computer company in UK. Also a very cherished 
stained glass customer to-have-become-a-close-personal- friend. (The 
peacock design on my home page was made for him). His 
name is Kris and he is the author of my WEB-page. He chose as my 
pseudonym "Toby", which is the name of my Old English Sheepdog 
Braybark Toby Tobias. The trouble is, that Toby has developed his OWN 
personality and impact on my life and my work. He is my "stress management 
policy", he shows me the very basic requirements and values in life; 
he constantly reminds me of my roots to nature and simplicity of 
Life's Requirements. He demands of me that I am in touch with Things 
that Grow. He also demands of me that I participate in very basic 
pleasures and inspirations. He also reminds me that even the 
"grandest world-wide financial genius, pontificator, and 
what-have-you" is no different from you and I, with their pants down 
across a toilet bowl with an upset tummy.......... (Imagine Bill 
Gates..!)  ... Old English have a very delicate digestive system....

Within that context, I stalk the Hertfordshiure countryside in rubber 
boots, across muddy fields and - often - pouring rain, behind this 
defiant Old English "rump", totally determined to show me HIS latest 
discoveries and treasure troves.  Some times it's a white albino deer 
stag with his harem of female deers crossing the fields at sunset, 
some times it is a clutch of baby hedgehogs, or a warren of hares or 
rabbits; now and then it's an orphan fox vixen.. In the photograph on
 my web-page it was just the 
intoxicating smell of blue-bells just in full bloom that he insisted 
I should share with him. Last March to last October ny stained glass 
was full of hues of BLUE from the blue-bell impressions he showed me.
It's a bit crazy, Toby loves smelling flowers....
(He loves digging them up too in my garden, the little "bugger"....)
THAT is Toby Tobias, great-nephew of Braybark Bold Baron Trooper, who 
was the Du Pont Dulux paint advertisment "son". Toby Tobias is not 
the first "Master" of this household, but the third. A Victoria Plum 
Tree and an Old English Oak Tree in my garden mark previous 
generations. I have even made 24 lbs of plum jam last autumn. A 
typical English Breakfast is planned for this Easter to my US Bungi 
friends, complete with Victoria Plum Jam on toast......

My stained glass interpretations - as I see my contribution -  are simple, structural, 
functional and adhering totally in colour to where they will finally 
"live". I am very much a person of "LIFE" and movement. Toby Tobias helps
 me to peel away much of the Sophistication and Intellectualism of debates 
about "Meaning of Life". His great, big 2 inch nose is close to the 
ground, close to Mother Earth and so often shows me where I should 
really look. He has developed his own little "fan-mail" on the 
Internet. He is a very gentle, cheeky, fun-loving clown and was/is 
totally appropriate to "fronting" me in his very earthy values.
He also loves having his ears scratched.....
That is the Story of Braybark Toby Tobias and his ears
Me - I am just learning to create Stained Glass.
Elisabeth 'n Toby


You wrote:
> 
> Hi, I am new to this group, why would Elizabeth scratch Toby behind the
> ears..Remember, I am 3hounds.

Oh, dear, if you don't know that Toby is an Old English Sheepdog, that
comment might even be weirder than the kindney panel!

There is a rather nice picture of Toby on Elisabeth's home page...along
with stained glass, of course. <g>

Hilary

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 16:11:51 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass safety online
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:26:00 +0000
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Hi Albert,
Would you happen to have the WEB address to Monona's new site???
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Albert wrote:
Say, everyone, I just learned that Monona Rossol's outfit, Arts, 
Crafts and Theater Safety is now online ... and it's a pretty 
impressive site! As the home page says, "if you are looking for professional
     information about the hazards posed by toxic materials and
     dangerous equipment used in art and theater, you have found the
     right place!"

There's even a search engine for MSDSs! You can just enter the 
chemical you need information on ... and look it up!

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 16:12:26 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Conservation materials for the glass surface after sandblas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:26:00 +0000
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Hello JeongJi Lee,
If  I understand your e-mail address correctly, you are located in 
Korea??
Welcome! May I compliment you on your English!
There are a number in our Group who are knowledgable in 
sand-blasting. But in order to help you, let us know a few more 
details, for example,
- is it a kind of a table-top surface ?
- Is it a window mounted surface, in which case
                                - in doors only
                                - with one surface facing outdoors ?
- is it a new panel or an old one?
 - What sort of "spots, stains and scratches" are you thinking of? Existing 
ones or ones you would like to prevent happening?
- Clear lacquer isn't really a long-term solution. It too gets easily 
scratched, discoloured, stained and so on. It's also very difficult to clean off, 
should you decide for an alternative solution later on.
- When you mentioned Hydrofluoric Acid, it made me think that you 
may be trying to restore/retrace "worn out" features in the original 
sandblasting work....  ??
- So far, the only easy, instant "CONSERVATION" idea that springs to 
my mind is to cut another clear, plain sheet of glass to fit your 
piece and lay it over the top, allowing for the usual ventilation 
aspects to prevent moisture getting trapped in between. That plain 
piece of glass can then take all the "punishment" of wear, tear, 
stains, spots and scratches and can be easily re-newed from time to 
time.
Do tell us more!
Kind Regards from United Kingdom (...and Sweden)
Elisabeth 'n Toby


JeongJi Lee wrote:
I needs your help for the conservation materials on the sandblasted
frosted flat glass surface without coloring which can keep from spots
and stain and scratch too.
I dont want to use Hydrofluolic Acid because of danger.
It would be very helpful for me if you inform me about how you do finish 
the sandblasted glass surface.

In the mean time, I have checked clear lacuer for coating material.
Is there any other solution? 
Pls help me.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 17:25:41 1997
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From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:24:48 -0500
Message-ID: <9702070124.AA11116@water.waterw.com>
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Elizabeth wrote,
>Dear pj Friend,


>
<<>May I at this stage dare to reply to an earlier input of yours, 
>concerning "support your local supplier".  Much has been said in the 
>mean-time  by other people. The latest in-put actually summarized my 
>deepest feelings about this subject.



>  Elizabeth,
                             

I don'' think I ever mentioned anything about supporting a local supplier.
It might have been from PJ from California???? Wasn't me.
We travel to New York to purchase all of our glass so that would be
kinda out of character for me to say that.  The local suppliers in this area
only sell retail, they also don''t carry alot of the glass or supplies that
we use.
I also agree with what you mentioned about your local supplier..if you are
sending him that kind of business he should be greeting you with a smile and
a big discount!!!!

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 18:20:05 1997
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From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:17:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb6.16179.0>
References: <<199702041436.OAA02612@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:
> 
>  Hi Elenie (and All),
> I think an awful lot of people are very pleased to see a regular
> input from you and delighted to see you in our "fold".
> Not wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons here,  I am hoping
> that you might be able to dispel past niggles from  a number of our
> Group, that of contacting Warner-Crivellaro to try and prise out a
> Catalog from your Company in the FIRST place. If I remember correctly
> from thess last 12 months, there has been a certain amount of grumblings
> about the difficulties and retisence by Warner-Crivellaro to part
> with their catalogues to us individually. My own last full catalogue
> dates back to 1994 and the latest "Mini-Catalog" from 1995 which has
> kindly been forwarded to me from a member of Bungi in USA (who is
> coming over to UK in a month or so).
> Could you perhaps enlighten us what the situation is now, and thereby
> - also perhaps - win back the favour of some disgruntled potential
> customers (especially in USA - never mind us poor relations in
> UK...).
> Hope I haven't put you on a spot - that was not my intention.
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> Just want to clear things up!
> If you think Warner-Crivellaro is only known for its unique bevels then
> you really don't know us too well! (snip) So if you have any questions, you know
> how to reach me.
> Elenie
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
Toby et all,
First of all, I want to thank everyone for their input on our web site.
We have taken your suggestions into account and you will be happy to
know that we do have a no frames version. I can take criticsm so let me
know what you think. Our address is: http://www. warner-criv. com. As
for receiving Warner-Crivellaro catalogs, well our mini supply catalogs
are free and do go out bulk rate. Once you become a current
customer, you are a part of our active mailing list and receive our
latest catalog as well as flyers and any updates right away. The only
other problem could be is if the address was left in our voice mailing
system and the telephone operators were not able to hear the address
clearly. They tell me that happens quite often. Potential customers
don't speak clearly enough. We are always sending out catalogs and I
apologize to those who didn't get one. We do value our customers as well
as potential ones. Thanks for speaking out Toby and you didn't put me on
the spot. By the way, our complete catalog will be online soon. Thanks
again,
Elenie
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 18:27:08 1997
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X-Path: fast.net!warnerc
From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3-D
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:24:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb6.162427.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.152626.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

WLester380@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
>  Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
> body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
> help.
> Thanks, Bill
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
Bill,
We do have cast butterfly bodies available. They are very detailed and
could be what you are looking for. Let me know if you want me to fax you
our catalog pages.
Elenie
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 20:55:42 1997
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3
From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha )
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: flipping a large panel
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:55:06 -0800
Message-ID: <199702070455.UAA03675@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You wrote: 
>
>
>Now we're talkin turkey..  the idea is to take the panel off the edge 
of the
>table enough so that you hit the balance point and pivot the panel to
>vertical with a crisp enough manouver so the panel has very little 
chance to
>bend. When putting it back on the table find that same point and flop 
that
>baby up there in one fell swoop. When this feat is accomplished with 
two
>people you can flip any size panel that you will ever see built. I 
flipped
>some 54 inch square panels with a guy that never did it before I told 
him to


This method does work well. We've flipped a panel @96" x 56" this way 
though I did try to work with an experienced person on that flip.

ms

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 23:01:36 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Opps, I was wrong about WC
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 01:30:52 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.93052.0>
References: <<199702060941.EAA18398@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks so much for the 1-800 number. I'll e-mail them right away.
Mary

On Thu, 6 Feb 1997 04:48:00 +0000 "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
writes:
>
>> Would they have a 1-800 number in which to call??
>
>You bet: Whittemore-Durgin Glass Co., PO Box 2065 NN, Hanover MA
>                      02339. Phone: (617) 871-1790. (800) 225-0380.
>                      Fax: (800) 786-3457. Email: jhepburn@penrose.com
>                      Website: http://www.penrose.com/glass 
>
>Albert
>
>Albert Lewis, Executive Director
>International Guild of Glass Artists
>A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
>http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 03:46:08 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!Livethakly
From: Livethakly@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Opps, I was wrong about WC
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 06:45:35 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.14535.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

lcbell@memach.com (Linda Campbell) wrote:
>It was Whittemore-Durgin and I love their catalog. It's 
>full of wit and things I haven't seen elsewhere. 

I too loved their catalogue. I liked it so much I ordered from it, just
because of the witty way they put it together. (I usually mail order from WC)
I also ordered form WC, and Glass Crafters on the same day. My package from
WC came three days later, My package from GC came four days later, and I
still haven't gotten my stuff from WD (it's only been 8 days, not counting
the weekend, but you know how excited we all get when ordering new glass toys
to play with.........)  

Still Pulling My Hair Out in NY,
Laura
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 04:21:13 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 06:16:11 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116065433.2d9fcd50@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi;
        I have a friend who wants to do mosiac tiles for her kitchen cabinet
top.  I was thinking that she could use a white tile as a base for glueing
the glass on, grout with bathroom tile grout (the white [or colored] powder
that you add water to, sort of like cement... or even white cement without
any sand for that matter) then she can glue or cement the tiles to her
wooden counter top.... does this sound feasible?  Will the tiles hold up
under kitchen wear and tear... should she coat the surface with something?
Thanks for any help, Meg

At 08:01 AM 1/31/97 EST, you wrote:
>Karin asked:
><What do you use as a grout ?>
>
>Hi there Karin.  The techniques of stained glass and tile mosaics are the same.
>I use regular bathroom tile grout that you can purchase in any home improvement
>center.  I prefer the non-sanded version in white.  I have used the sanded
grout
>for plant pots, since it is more 'outdoorsy' than the fine, finished look
of the
>non-sanded grout.  Don't be fooled by the so called "special grout for stained
>glass".  Just pick up a box or bag of grout powder from the home improvement
>store.  Don't use the grout that is already mixed, as it dries out in the
>container and you waste a bunch of grout.  If you purchase the powdered grout,
>you just mix up a lot for what you need.  If you stick with white you can then
>add color to the mix to change up the grout color.
>
>Have fun!....Christie
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 04:21:13 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 06:16:14 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116065437.2d9fd8b0@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have been gone for ten days, maybe someone already caught this.... but I
hope it is supplies and not glass, that you are storing overhead.... I would
be very scared of getting glass down from overhead!!! Meg

At 12:45 PM 2/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
 I placed an up
>side down ceiling tile (cut to size) over the cutting board and store glass
>and  supplies overhead, and below. 
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 05:04:19 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 07:32:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.33252.0>
References: <<199702070007.AAA29300@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

Ok, Elisabeth and Toby,

First of all, please apologize to Toby for not realizing that it was HIS
web page, not yours. What are ya gonna do? I'm a human. He'll understand
that.

Secondly, let me tell you that I had to reach for the tissues when I
read your whale panel story. What a wonderful thing to happen!!

Thirdly, let's make a stab at this Atlas. But I warn you, I'm going to
send in the pattern for my kidney panel! But the first thing that we
have to do is volunteer Albert to edit the thing. I am sure that he is
sitting around desperately wanting yet another project on his already
full plate. However, he has access to all of us, whether we lurk or
practice verbosity. He has access to the printing guys 'cause to does
the Common Ground Glass magazine. And he has experience at this sort of
thing. But, I don't want to be the one to volunteer him. Let somebody
who has been around here longer than I do the dirty work. Hint hint.

As to the rest of your epistle, I agree in principle. I would only ask
that this *not* be something that we decide has to be done immediately,
and that we allow enough time for us to get together stuff we would
really like to share.

Perhaps this could be a promotional offering for Bungie Glass. If it
turns out halfway decent, it could be an annual or bi-annual thing. If
it ever becomes profitable, maybe we could get free subscriptions.
Maybe, at some point it could become a juried pattern book and the whole
world will wait in breathless anticipation of its publication and then
we will have the awards presentation on prime time TV and we can get Tom
Cruise to give out the awards...did I just get carried away? No one has
ever accuse me of not having a fantasy life. Sigh. Oh, well. In the
meantime, will you volunteer to ask Albert?

Your most glassy eyed servant,
Hilary

> 
> Hi Hilary,
> Toby says very much thank you for the  "ear-scratch" and the extra
> "plug" to admire HIS (repeat: HIS)  web-page.......
> The story of your cousin I find quite amazing and therefore your
> "kidney-panel" totally appropriate. Be proud of it ( and the
> "new-wife-to-be" had better have a sense of humour or I'll send a
> horde of Vikings to "deal" with her!!).
> I wish I could be proud of my "Victoria Falls" panel, but it
> positively makes me cringe......
> Now and then, I do get it right. I delivered a round port-hole 3
> ft-diameter panel last week to a customer. He and his wife
> have spent a lot of time in New Zealand (spelling?) and had studied a
> lot of marine life. They had fallen in love with humped-backed
> whales, which  was what they wanted me to do as a design. Quite
> contrary to my normal custom, I didn't show them my final design, nor
> did I seek their approval for my colour-mix. Quite out of character,
> I just went ahead and made it. So he (and his wife) had no idea what
> they were going to get. My heart in my socks, I started to unwrap my
> offering in front of this great, big, muscular 6ft 4 in. man. He just
> stood there and looked as I struggled with the weight and said not a
> word. I panicked and thought - Oh God, he doesn't like it!! When he
> finally spoke, he was choking..... I had to put the panel down and
> disappear out to the car and pretend I was getting tools out..... (In
> reality, I was fumbling around for the large box of tissues....).
> What a wonderful reward!!
> 
> As Regards "The Bungi Atlas Of Stained Glass", there was a little
> serious streak in me that spoke out.....
> YES! Let's have  some crazy  & fun ideas, but let's get serious too.
> Look at it this way; there is such a gold-mine of talent, dedication,
> love (of the medium), good-will, imagination, drawing skills,
> designing skills and sense of adventure amongst ALL  of our
> Bungi-crowd, that would make such a project as this immensely
> exciting. What a wonderful gift to pass on..... and what a promotion
> for Stained Glass!!
> There is about 20 hard-core energetic participants in the
> "Bungi-Group", a strong voice from Canada, Australia and New Zealand,
>  about a dozen occasional "learners/hobbyists" from anywhere and
> everywhere, , a quiet sprinkling from  Holland, Poland, UK (hmmm!)
>  and Korea (!). If each and everyone of ALL of us "donated"  1-2 of
> our OWN ddesigns each to the Atlas, we could end up with a collection
> of well over 100s of designs (if not more) across the World and across
> all abilities, designed and actually made by REAL stained glass folks
> (as opposed to conveyor-belt commercial graphic designers...).
> I would like to see contributions across the entire spectrum of
> knowledge, experience, ability and vision.
> As I see it, we need to establish first of all a kind of a "Birth
> Team" ( Editor, Co-Ordinator, Progress Chaser, Administrator,
> Finance Advisor, Promotions Expert, Publisher, Printer, Mediator and
> Time Keeper).
> Then we need to decide on Subject Matters ;  Copper-foil: ( sub-divided
> into lamps, 3d objects, sun catchers, fan-lamps etc)
> Lead (sub-divided into architectural (religeous, domestic,
> commercial), 3-d and what I call New-Lead sun-catcher field;
> as well as
> Etching
> engraving
> sand-blasting
> mosaics
> painting (kiln and non-kiln)
> hot glass
> bead-making
> any more??
> 
> Initially, just as a kind of "sampler"  by stained glass artists
> speaking to those out there interested in what Stained Glass is all
> about. There are a fair number of "learned tomes" by the Giants, old
> and new. THIS should be a light-hearted, informative, inspirational
> "idea-nurturing" Atlas that says ... "YESSSS!!!" I can do it!!
> The initial publication would not be geared to earning us mega-bucks.
> It wouldn't earn us a single cent. It would be a promotional offering
> and any money arising out of it, to be put in a "Trust Fund" to
> finance a talented stained glass aspirant to learn/study more.
> Terribly idealistic??
> Yeah, maybe...
> Possible???    You Bet!!
> In-put?? That depends on YOU....
> More ideas???    ...Up to YOU....
> 
> (Dear "T" in Montana,  you will receive a hand-drawn copy of  my
> Tree-of-Life design. It wouldn't photocopy............ is in
> hand..........)
> 
> Forgotten now who asked for the first "ball" to be thrown. I have
> thrown ONE ball.. Any others...??
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 05:24:12 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:23:50 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970207082511.1bc78ef0@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Meg .... Thanks for the thought, perhaps I did not explain myself correctly.
The Microwave stand that I use is made of sturdy oak.  The "box" that I
store the glass in is 24" across 18" high and 24" deep.  It is not over MY
head but supported over the Cutting Board by an oak panel board frame. Think
of it as a section of kitchen cupboards and the over heard cupboard does not
have a door in it.   I store small pieces of glass (12" X 12") vertically in
the box, large sheets are also stored vertically on the shelves below.  

At 06:16 AM 2/7/97 -0600, you wrote:
>I have been gone for ten days, maybe someone already caught this.... but I
>hope it is supplies and not glass, that you are storing overhead.... I would
>be very scared of getting glass down from overhead!!! Meg
>
>At 12:45 PM 2/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
> I placed an up
>>side down ceiling tile (cut to size) over the cutting board and store glass
>>and  supplies overhead, and below. 
>>
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life, Cornell University
255-5960

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 05:57:23 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 07:52:16 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116083041.2d178e4e@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Debi;
        I was away, so am a bit late in answering!  I put up peg board at
the beggining of the year, and wished I'd done it a long time ago... its
wonderful!!!!  I have a grinder bench with shelves under it.  a Cutting
table with a shelf, and a glass storage cabinet that I had made for me.
full sheet size slots under then a small surface area with another set of
slots set at the back for larger left overs, then a slanted place way at top
with little wooden boxes for other yet smaller pieces I want to keep.  I
have a cardboard box for other small leftovers, would like to switch to
something else for that.  behind all this I have a slot where card board
sheets, came etc goes..... if you (or anyone) wants a drawing of this
cabinet send me your snail mail address! I also have in another part book
shelves, filing cabinets, and a light table.  It is warm here year around so
I also have a large cement sink outside for washing.  (This is all on the
second floor of the barn (over the riding stable business)  My mother shares
this space with me so all her oil and water color things are there, as are
my two kids who homeschool.... how do we all fit?  the space is about 5 or 6
meters sq.   Meg

At 06:59 PM 1/28/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
>storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
>a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
>misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?  
>
>Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all the
>help I can get.
>
>Thanks all.
>
>Debi in Gunnison
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 05:57:24 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3-D
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 07:52:10 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116083035.2d17839e@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Delphi sells the bodies.  Also I made one shaping a bit of copper tubing and
adding solder eyes etc...  Meg


At 08:39 PM 2/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>WLester380@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
>>  Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
>> body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
>> help.
>> Thanks, Bill
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>they do make a lead casting, at least for nymph like things. they should
>have one for butterflies. you can also sculpt it from copper sheets like
>making a tin foil weenie. 
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>-- 
>Mike's Stained Glass
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>
>New Pages Added:
>
> - More Tips and Techniques
> - How to Fix Mistakes
> - The History of My Shop
> - My Adventures of Mold Making
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 05:57:58 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: pricing Tiffany lamps
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 07:52:07 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116083032.2d9f6ecc@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 05:22 PM 2/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
>Hi Carol, if the only people building shades were doing quality work and not
>being paid pennies a day as in the orient and third world countries we would
>have no competition.
>
 I look at the
>LESS than skilled craftsmen in a lot of fields (carpentry, plumbing, auto
>repair, consulting, etc.; if I have left anyone out of this list, my humble
>apologies) and see what their hours are billed at....I am BETTER!!!!!, I am
>selling a LUXURY!!!!
>
>

I have been trying to think of a way to explain a different view point on
the cheap work from third world countries.... maybe I have it now.  As I
haven't seen what you are reffering too, I can't remark on quality.....
obviously as a craftsman, I would like to see good quality!!!! BUT..... As
several people have mentioned, we should get as much as mechanics, plumbing
repair etc...... AT LEAST.... well, here in Costa Rica they get from $1.00
to $5.00 an hour.......The whole economy is set up for cheaper labor (I
won't even go into possible reasons for this!).  So when I have to price
something, I have to compare my wages with other local wages....not US of UK
ones, and that means I earn less than you would for a similar panel.  I
won't sell anything if I charged $40.00/hr.  And we, like the UK people have
to import all our materials from the USA and pay custums duties and shipping
on them.  Maybe it is cheaper to live here, or the standard of living
expectancy is lower??  I figure if I get all my expenses, and a equivalent
local salary, I am lucky to be able to do what I love!!!  Meg
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 06:36:02 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 09:29:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.42934.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970116065433.2d9fcd50@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> Hi;
>         I have a friend who wants to do mosiac tiles for her kitchen cabinet
> top.  I was thinking that she could use a white tile as a base for glueing
> the glass on, grout with bathroom tile grout (the white [or colored] powder
> that you add water to, sort of like cement... or even white cement without
> any sand for that matter) then she can glue or cement the tiles to her
> wooden counter top.... does this sound feasible?  Will the tiles hold up
> under kitchen wear and tear... should she coat the surface with something?
> Thanks for any help, Meg
> 
> At 08:01 AM 1/31/97 EST, you wrote:
> >Karin asked:
> ><What do you use as a grout ?>
> >
> >Hi there Karin.  The techniques of stained glass and tile mosaics are the same.
> >I use regular bathroom tile grout that you can purchase in any home improvement
> >center.  I prefer the non-sanded version in white.  I have used the sanded
> grout
> >for plant pots, since it is more 'outdoorsy' than the fine, finished look
> of the
> >non-sanded grout.  Don't be fooled by the so called "special grout for stained
> >glass".  Just pick up a box or bag of grout powder from the home improvement
> >store.  Don't use the grout that is already mixed, as it dries out in the
> >container and you waste a bunch of grout.  If you purchase the powdered grout,
> >you just mix up a lot for what you need.  If you stick with white you can then
> >add color to the mix to change up the grout color.
> >
> >Have fun!....Christie
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> >
> Richard and Meg LaVal
> apdo. 24-5655
> Monteverde
> COSTA RICA
> tel: 506 645 5052
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


when tiling on wood you would normally use Marine Plywood, it sound
feasable you would do the same for glass. or try using cement board,
that should definitly work.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 06:44:43 1997
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X-Path: bridge.net!athena
From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:49:42 +0000
Message-ID: <199702071443.JAA06716@brickell.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Meg,

I haven't tried this yet, so take what I say with that grain of salt. 
But I've given it much thought because I wanted to do stained glass 
mosaics in the new kitchen we're building now.

I've been discouraged from using stained glass on the counter ... 
told it would be likely to crack under the stress of dropped objects 
and the heat of pots from the stove. I'm not convinced, but I think 
that Byzantine type  mosaics might be a better medium, or better 
yeyt, porcelain mosaics or glazed ceramic mosaics.

Why does she plan to apply the mosaic to a white tile and then put 
the tile on the countertop? Why not directly to the wood?

Unsanded "bathroom tile" grout is available, and can be used where 
the grout joints are smaller than 1/8".

Hope this helps.

:D

M.-J.

On  7 Feb 97, you shaped the electrons to say:

> Hi;
>         I have a friend who wants to do mosiac tiles for her kitchen
>         cabinet
> top.  I was thinking that she could use a white tile as a base for
> glueing the glass on, grout with bathroom tile grout (the white [or
> colored] powder that you add water to, sort of like cement... or
> even white cement without any sand for that matter) then she can
> glue or cement the tiles to her wooden counter top.... does this
> sound feasible?  Will the tiles hold up under kitchen wear and
> tear... should she coat the surface with something? Thanks for any
> help, Meg
> 
> At 08:01 AM 1/31/97 EST, you wrote:
> >Karin asked:
> ><What do you use as a grout ?>
> >
> >Hi there Karin.  The techniques of stained glass and tile mosaics
> >are the same. I use regular bathroom tile grout that you can
> >purchase in any home improvement center.  I prefer the non-sanded
> >version in white.  I have used the sanded
> grout
> >for plant pots, since it is more 'outdoorsy' than the fine,
> >finished look
> of the
> >non-sanded grout.  Don't be fooled by the so called "special grout
> >for stained glass".  Just pick up a box or bag of grout powder from
> >the home improvement store.  Don't use the grout that is already
> >mixed, as it dries out in the container and you waste a bunch of
> >grout.  If you purchase the powdered grout, you just mix up a lot
> >for what you need.  If you stick with white you can then add color
> >to the mix to change up the grout color.
> >
> >Have fun!....Christie
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives
> >available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> >
> Richard and Meg LaVal
> apdo. 24-5655
> Monteverde
> COSTA RICA
> tel: 506 645 5052
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To
> send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives
> available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
M.-J. Taylor 
<athena@bridge.net> 

Although we cannot change the direction of the wind,
              we can adjust our sails.

 
                                              |\                ( )
 _____________________________________________|_\_____________________
                                              -----             -_-_
                                                               -- - -
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 07:09:59 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: pricing Tiffany lamps
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:09:22 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970207101043.0a47087c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Meg ....                        Thank you for saying this in such a
thoughtful way.... 
I seems to me comparing wages between stained glass crafters and mechanics,
plumbers and other trades would be like comparing pianos and violins.  One
thought does occur however,   when my toilet is broken and my car will not
get me to the store ...... and the plumber and the mechanic buy my stained
glass.... so that I can pay them .... helps me to understand the full circle
of community .
                        

At 07:52 AM 2/7/97 -0600, you wrote:
>At 05:22 PM 2/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>>
>>Hi Carol, if the only people building shades were doing quality work and not
>>being paid pennies a day as in the orient and third world countries we would
>>have no competition.
>>
> I look at the
>>LESS than skilled craftsmen in a lot of fields (carpentry, plumbing, auto
>>repair, consulting, etc.; if I have left anyone out of this list, my humble
>>apologies) and see what their hours are billed at....I am BETTER!!!!!, I am
>>selling a LUXURY!!!!
>>
>>
>
>I have been trying to think of a way to explain a different view point on
>the cheap work from third world countries.... maybe I have it now.  As I
>haven't seen what you are reffering too, I can't remark on quality.....
>obviously as a craftsman, I would like to see good quality!!!! BUT..... As
>several people have mentioned, we should get as much as mechanics, plumbing
>repair etc...... AT LEAST.... well, here in Costa Rica they get from $1.00
>to $5.00 an hour.......The whole economy is set up for cheaper labor (I
>won't even go into possible reasons for this!).  So when I have to price
>something, I have to compare my wages with other local wages....not US of UK
>ones, and that means I earn less than you would for a similar panel.  I
>won't sell anything if I charged $40.00/hr.  And we, like the UK people have
>to import all our materials from the USA and pay custums duties and shipping
>on them.  Maybe it is cheaper to live here, or the standard of living
>expectancy is lower??  I figure if I get all my expenses, and a equivalent
>local salary, I am lucky to be able to do what I love!!!  Meg
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life, Cornell University
255-5960

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 07:25:00 1997
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X-Path: ibm.net!mstreng
From: Martin Streng <mstreng@ibm.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:15:54 +0100
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970207151554.0067b8f8@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Great idea! 
I could make a contribution of at least 2 sun-catchers.
One suncatcher is a 2-dimension translation of a small statue, depicting a
man embracing a woman ("very 60-ties" according to my teacher). It has a
very special place in my heart and it is untill now the only piece i am
really satisfied with.
The other is a turtle Dick Bruna stile, it was made for a new-born. It has
some very interesting design-aspects, mainly about strength.

But who should i send them to?


At 00:26 7-02-97 +0000, you wrote (my editing):
>Hi Hilary,
>
>As Regards "The Bungi Atlas Of Stained Glass", there was a little 
>serious streak in me that spoke out.....
>YES! Let's have  some crazy  & fun ideas, but let's get serious too.
>If each and everyone of ALL of us "donated"  1-2 of 
>our OWN ddesigns each to the Atlas, we could end up with a collection 
>of well over 100s of designs (if not more) across the World and across 
>all abilities, designed and actually made by REAL stained glass folks 
>(as opposed to conveyor-belt commercial graphic designers...).
>I would like to see contributions across the entire spectrum of 
>knowledge, experience, ability and vision.
>
Martin Streng

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 08:11:15 1997
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From: Tomi Reneau <reneau@fls.infi.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:14:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.61410.0>
References: <<1.5.4.32.19970207151554.0067b8f8@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net>>
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Thanks for asking that question!  Been wondering myself.  Almost 95% of
my work is original design, but I wouldn't mind sharing.  So far, I've
just been an observer, but am willing to participate in any way needed.
This is a good project, people.  Let's do it!
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 08:31:37 1997
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From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:30:56 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <9702071630.AA25287@crosfield.co.uk>
References: <<199702071443.JAA06716@brickell.bridge.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> I've given it much thought because I wanted to do stained glass 
> mosaics in the new kitchen we're building now.
> 
> I've been discouraged from using stained glass on the counter ... 
> told it would be likely to crack under the stress of dropped objects 
> and the heat of pots from the stove.

One possible idea that you could consider, if you really want to
use stained glass: You can get glass chopping boards - they're supposed
to be some specially tempered glass that can handle hot pans; Usually
they're painted underneath, but I think I remember seeing plain ones as
well. If so, maybe you could use one as a protective top over the
stained glass, in a sort of drop-in sandwich/cover arrangement? They
may be somewhat textured though, which could make the idea a non-starter -
but it might be worth looking at if a local store carries them. 


-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 08:34:02 1997
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: pj friend <artglass@waterw.com>
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:30:12 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.03012.0>
References: <<9702070124.AA11116@water.waterw.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All.  pj friend said he didn't mention anything about supporting a
local supplier and thought perhaps I had.  I don't remember saying such,
notice I don't deny it but I haven't used a local supplier in many a year.
First, because they mark up the merchandise from 500 to 1000 percent in
some instances and in order for me to charge competetive rates to my
customers, I am unable to deal with that.  Also, the only one in a 75 mile
radius only keeps the most inexpensive glass and I simply need a better
selection.  If I need something before I can get back to my suppliers, I
do pay retail and get no discount because I am "in thee business."  PJ
from CA.

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 18:31:12 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: commission agreements
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:25:58 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116115717.2cf7532c@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi fellow forum members;
        A while back we had a discussion on pricing, and
contracts/agreements.  Someone even posted theirs, which I saved and is
coming in handy now... Thank you.   However, now that I am thinking about it
more carefully, a couple of questions come to mind.

1.  It seems only fair to tell the client at the outset, how much a project
will cost.  However, if you haven't an approved design, how do you know how
much to charge?  The kind of glass, the number of pieces etc... are still
unknowns...

2. This particular agreement which I kept a copy of, has a warranty
section... which seems only fair to the client.  However what is the usual
period of years that one guarantees the workmanship and materials for?

I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 


Thanks for any advice or comments on this one, and thanks for the advice on
the Mosiac question!     Meg
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 18:44:19 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:50:07 +0000
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> I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
> design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 

A third, a third and a third  is a quite common formula, but yours 
sounds workable too.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 18:55:34 1997
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From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: photos of glass
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 19:56:28 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.125628.0>
References: <<199702031840.NAA13204@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

... terrific German full antique that
> downloads *fast! It's the Glashuette Lambert home page at
> http://www.lamberts.de
> 
> Great stuff.
> 
Hey Albert, thanks for the great tip.  This site has great pictures of
the glass, and since I live in the boonies and have to mail-order most
of my stuff, at least I get an idea of what I'm buying.

And thanks everyone for the great storage tips.  

-Debi
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:00:48 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:00:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.17013.0>
References: <<9702071630.AA25287@crosfield.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I like Jerry's idea of the glass chopping board to protect the mosaic
beneath.  Now, can someone with a functional web browser check on Corning
Glass... I bet they have a variety of things like that.

On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Jerry Cullingford wrote:

> > I've given it much thought because I wanted to do stained glass 
> > mosaics in the new kitchen we're building now.
> > 
> > I've been discouraged from using stained glass on the counter ... 
> > told it would be likely to crack under the stress of dropped objects 
> > and the heat of pots from the stove.
> 
> One possible idea that you could consider, if you really want to
> use stained glass: You can get glass chopping boards - they're supposed
> to be some specially tempered glass that can handle hot pans; Usually
> they're painted underneath, but I think I remember seeing plain ones as
> well. If so, maybe you could use one as a protective top over the
> stained glass, in a sort of drop-in sandwich/cover arrangement? They
> may be somewhat textured though, which could make the idea a non-starter -
> but it might be worth looking at if a local store carries them. 
> 
> 
> -- 
>    _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
>   / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
>   \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
> \__/     -----------------------------------------------------
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:08:26 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:11:55 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.201155.0>
References: <<199702050411.EAA14683@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:

Elizabeth,

It was so sad to here the state of stained glass in the UK.. Again, I 
feel that I live the  sheltered live and take so much for common.  If I 
can ever help in your endevours, leave me know.
3 hounds


> Maybe it might still be in the Bungi Archives somewhere, but quite a
> number of months ago I posted a "historical rambling" to the effect
> of that the glass manufacturing (for stained glass) died in UK with the
> Advent of Oliver Cromwell. He was was the fellow who went about
> smashing up churches in UK. He didn't only smash up churches, he also
> smashed up and destroyed the manufacturers who made ornamentations
> for the churches, i.e. especially and including  stained glass
> artists studios and glass making studios/workshops. The stained glass
> "industry" in UK never really recovered from this devastation and many
> glass making techniques were lost forever.Compensations were then
> brought into the UK from elsewhere in Europe, especially the
> Flemish/Dutch and German artists. But don't forget, they too suffered
> the vagaries of wars and destructions. A re-birth of sorts in UK
> really only happened in the 19th Century with William Morris. Since
> when there are a couple of British Glass manufacturers producing
> glass for the stained glass industry. But a couple only. But the majority of glass we
> use today are imported from USA, Germany, France, Belgium and
> now Poland. Slowly and often painfully, we are trying to reconstruct
> destroyed past history and bring it into context of the 20th and 21st
> Century.The impact of Tiffany in Britain was quite substantial, not
> so much  in his designs and flamboyance,( which somehow doesn't appear
> to fit well with the British "pallet"), - the conservative Brits still
> find him "over the top", but much more resulting in a new surge of historical
> interest in the stained glass tradition and its revival. John Piper
> and Patrick Reyntiens - the 2 giants in Britain of stained glass of
> the 20th Century, never quite reached the emotional "common man" chord. Too
> academic, too remote, too dry, too abstract - I just don't know. What
> has caught the "common man's" imagination in Britain is the revival
> of the Arts & Crafts Movement, Victorian and Art Nouveau stained
> glass. I myself have been "lauded" for my Arts & Crafts Movement
> interptretations, before I even knew what the term meant. I sit here
> in betwixt and between, often slightly bewildered by my education
> of Swedish and Scandinavian design and aim for simplicity and force
> of simple statements and structures, and most of all - colours.Quite
> frankly, my Swedish education just did not extend to cover the
> British Arts & Crafts Movement.... however extensive that education was.
> In Britain, people who like stained glass and chose it as something
> they want to live with, still don't know what they want and why, as
> long as it cannot be interpreted as something "over the top".
> My students come all eager on their first day to my courses - they
> want to make a Tiffany-style lamp (you know! the sort off thing you
> just make up in 10 minutes or so!! Nothing to it!) When I discuss it
> with them as an object for them to have in their living room, to
> switch on and off, to live with, they "turn turtle" and back out.
> They like the idea of making one, but they can't quite accept the
> idea of "living" with one. For flamboyance and excuberance of
> coloured glass we have to look outside UK. It's a fascinating facet
> to watch, observe and study for someone like myself, but bewildering
> and often confusing to work with.
> Dunno here, hope I have given you the "flavour" of stained glass
> past and present here in Europe. I work mainly in lead, which is not
> to say that I don't follow the copper-foil people very closely.
> History is immensly important, as is attempted destruction of
> history. Stained glass just managed to avoid total extinction in UK,
> but it is still trying to find its way and to find its role....
> Elisabeth 'n Toby (2 lost souls in UK)
> 
> M.-J. wrote:
> >
> > Jerry wrote:
> >
> > >(*Sigh* - why is it always cheaper to get things from the US rather than
> > >locally in the UK? At least with stained glass, a lot of things are *made* in
> > >the US - but why Chinese brush painting stuff should be cheaper via the US
> > >is beyond me.
> > <snip>
> 
> Not to change the subject, but what are your glass manufacturers like...
> Are the European glasses different from the American
> manufacturers...What are your colours like .>
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:11:45 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scratched glasses
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:15:21 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.201521.0>
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Elsie Turqman wrote:
> 
>  Gloria
> 
> The liquid dish soap probably didn't scratch your glasses.  If you dried
> them with paper towels the reinforcing fibers in the paper probably did the
> scratching.  I found this out after ruining a new pair of lenses.  Most of
> the paper towels on the market are advertising how strong they are, that's
> because they are totally paper anymore.  I don't know what they are but they
> scratch plastic.  Dry your lenses with clean soft cotton and old dish towel
> or old diaper, (yes they still make cloth diapers and they have many uses.
> 
> Elsie

I will try that
Thank you
> >
> >Bud,
> >I hope you are doing better...Was the plastic lens an
> >surgical insertion...
> >I might have been cleaning my glass with liquid dish soap and water,
> >which might have caused the scratches to the lens.. But I am more
> >worried about the eye conditon you have.. glass lenses can be replaced..
> >hope you are doing well and Thanks.
>  >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:16:05 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scratched glasses
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:19:38 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.201938.0>
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M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Elsie Turqman wrote:
> >
> >  Gloria
> >
> > The liquid dish soap probably didn't scratch your glasses.  If you dried
> > them with paper towels the reinforcing fibers in the paper probably did the
> > scratching.  I found this out after ruining a new pair of lenses.  Most of
> > the paper towels on the market are advertising how strong they are, that's
> > because they are totally paper anymore.  I don't know what they are but they
> > scratch plastic.  Dry your lenses with clean soft cotton and old dish towel
> > or old diaper, (yes they still make cloth diapers and they have many uses.
> >
> > Elsie
> > >
> > >Bud,
> > >I hope you are doing better...Was the plastic lens an
> > >surgical insertion...
> > >I might have been cleaning my glass with liquid dish soap and water,
> > >which might have caused the scratches to the lens.. But I am more
> > >worried about the eye conditon you have.. glass lenses can be replaced..
> > >hope you are doing well and Thanks.
> >  >
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> and of course there's reg. tissues. the other thing that might have
> scratched them is the grinder. and spray that come out either has tiny
> chips of glass, or powder suspended in water. once wiped off that will
> scratch too.

Mike
I switched glasses from the grinder to the soldering station.. The 
glasses from the grinder were never effected.. If I had not switched, 
that would have been a good cause for the scratched lenses. I use glass 
flux, maybe?? I am finding different fluxes act differently. 
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:21:31 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:25:07 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.20257.0>
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Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi, I am new to this group, why would Elizabeth scratch Toby behind the
> > ears..Remember, I am 3hounds.
> 
> Oh, dear, if you don't know that Toby is an Old English Sheepdog, that
> comment might even be weirder than the kindney panel!
> 
> There is a rather nice picture of Toby on Elisabeth's home page...along
> with stained glass, of course. <g>
> 
> Hilary

Thanks for the final clarification...I was finally wondering if Toby was 
a pup or a cat.. either was great.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:24:50 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic glass cutters
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:28:25 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.202825.0>
References: <<1997Feb5.15361.0>>
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maruca@netaxs.com wrote:
> 
> Today I took a busman's holiday and visited our friend Christie's favorite
> place, Inspirations (Eagleville PA). The owner answered my questions about
> the pricey Leponitt cutters, then said the magic words, "Would you like to
> try them?"
> 
> They are so fast and easy to use that I couldn't wait, I paid retail on
> 'em and was glad to get them!
> 
> Mary

Yes, I also love them.. They save a lot of grinder bits for me.
> 
> On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Jerri M Roey wrote:
> 
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> >       What is *Thin-Set*?  Like a glue? Then do you grout over the
> > glass?  Were you talking about using glass on stones that were already
> > made?  I've been reading with interest about the mosaic cutters.  I've
> > been making stones using my scrap glass to fill the background and
> > thought I might like some.  I cut my background pieces pretty small.  So
> > far I've poured my own cement and haven't tried making any with pre-made
> > stones.
> >
> > Jerri
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:04:00 -0500 (EST) CUTLER@Wittenberg.EDU writes:
> > >Hi. Bob Cutler here.  <snip>
> > >The trouble with this pattern book - and
> > >others, I imagine - is that it really doesn't encourage the
> > >use of those pesky scraps which I refuse to throw away :) :).
> > >SO since I own a pair of the mosaic glass cutters, and wanted to
> > >use them, I decided to experiment:
> > >I bought a hexagonal patio stone.  I bought a bag of Thin-Set
> > >which is used to lay ceramic tile over concrete surfaces. I gathered
> > >my scraps and trimmed them to suit and hatched a pattern on the spot
> > >After laying out a rough design, I prepared the thin-set and
> > >applied it to the stone, followed by the glass.  It was a bit messy
> > >but that was my fault for using too much thin-set.  I made sure that
> > >there was an empty space between each piece of glass.  After a
> > >bit of time called for on the thin-set package I applied grout.
> > >I like the result well enough to try again.  It takes less time,
> > >allows the use of the cutters, and is as much fun as the more formal
> > >patterns.
> > >
> > >In short I love the cutters.
> > >----
> > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:26:42 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scratched glasses
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:30:11 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.203011.0>
References: <<199702060442.WAA12093@bucky.win.bright.net>>
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Harold De Vos wrote:
> 
> re: Bud's eye : one eye blinded by solder fumes??
> Yes it was a surgical insertion and a miracle.  They injected something,
> then told me I could go to sleep if i wished.
> 
> But Then turned on the brightest light I have ever seen. I thought >  no
> way I could sleep, but within 10 seconds, I could care less about what he
> was doing and did snooze!  Just two hours later, i could see the beautiful
> world again and with BOTH eyes.  It actually made my sight better because
> the new lens was made to correct some, but not all of my near sightedness!
> 
> Take care!

That is great to hear... I have achey problems...but could never imagine 
lost of sight...
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:35:25 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:38:51 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.203851.0>
References: <<199702070007.AAA29290@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:

Elizabeth,
That is one of the most enjoyable lifes I have ever read... My Borois 
should have such a wonderful life in the fields..they do do alot for my 
gardens.. enjoy the coming of spring.
> 
> Hi "3hounds"
> 
> When I first got launched on the "Internet", I was in the care of a
> "perfect English Gentleman", who felt the need to protect me as a
> woman, as an artiste and as a potential victim in the Internet
> Jungle. He is also a very senior computer consultant with a large
> international computer company in UK. Also a very cherished
> stained glass customer to-have-become-a-close-personal- friend. (The
> peacock design on my home page was made for him). His
> name is Kris and he is the author of my WEB-page. He chose as my
> pseudonym "Toby", which is the name of my Old English Sheepdog
> Braybark Toby Tobias. The trouble is, that Toby has developed his OWN
> personality and impact on my life and my work. He is my "stress management
> policy", he shows me the very basic requirements and values in life;
> he constantly reminds me of my roots to nature and simplicity of
> Life's Requirements. He demands of me that I am in touch with Things
> that Grow. He also demands of me that I participate in very basic
> pleasures and inspirations. He also reminds me that even the
> "grandest world-wide financial genius, pontificator, and
> what-have-you" is no different from you and I, with their pants down
> across a toilet bowl with an upset tummy.......... (Imagine Bill
> Gates..!)  ... Old English have a very delicate digestive system....
> 
> Within that context, I stalk the Hertfordshiure countryside in rubber
> boots, across muddy fields and - often - pouring rain, behind this
> defiant Old English "rump", totally determined to show me HIS latest
> discoveries and treasure troves.  Some times it's a white albino deer
> stag with his harem of female deers crossing the fields at sunset,
> some times it is a clutch of baby hedgehogs, or a warren of hares or
> rabbits; now and then it's an orphan fox vixen.. In the photograph on
>  my web-page it was just the
> intoxicating smell of blue-bells just in full bloom that he insisted
> I should share with him. Last March to last October ny stained glass
> was full of hues of BLUE from the blue-bell impressions he showed me.
> It's a bit crazy, Toby loves smelling flowers....
> (He loves digging them up too in my garden, the little "bugger"....)
> THAT is Toby Tobias, great-nephew of Braybark Bold Baron Trooper, who
> was the Du Pont Dulux paint advertisment "son". Toby Tobias is not
> the first "Master" of this household, but the third. A Victoria Plum
> Tree and an Old English Oak Tree in my garden mark previous
> generations. I have even made 24 lbs of plum jam last autumn. A
> typical English Breakfast is planned for this Easter to my US Bungi
> friends, complete with Victoria Plum Jam on toast......
> 
> My stained glass interpretations - as I see my contribution -  are simple, structural,
> functional and adhering totally in colour to where they will finally
> "live". I am very much a person of "LIFE" and movement. Toby Tobias helps
>  me to peel away much of the Sophistication and Intellectualism of debates
> about "Meaning of Life". His great, big 2 inch nose is close to the
> ground, close to Mother Earth and so often shows me where I should
> really look. He has developed his own little "fan-mail" on the
> Internet. He is a very gentle, cheeky, fun-loving clown and was/is
> totally appropriate to "fronting" me in his very earthy values.
> He also loves having his ears scratched.....
> That is the Story of Braybark Toby Tobias and his ears
> Me - I am just learning to create Stained Glass.
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> You wrote:
> >
> > Hi, I am new to this group, why would Elizabeth scratch Toby behind the
> > ears..Remember, I am 3hounds.
> 
> Oh, dear, if you don't know that Toby is an Old English Sheepdog, that
> comment might even be weirder than the kindney panel!
> 
> There is a rather nice picture of Toby on Elisabeth's home page...along
> with stained glass, of course. <g>
> 
> Hilary
> 
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:37:46 1997
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From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: re:  distorted lamp patterns
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:35:47 -0500
Message-ID: <199702080339.WAA00132@gate.usaor.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

This may be a little late, but I was taught this trick by a SG friend. 
When you are making multiple copies of a pattern (say for a 6 sided panel
lamp), make each copy individually instead of pressing "6" copies all at
once.  If you do multiple copies, each one will be off and depending on
the copier up to 1/8 of an inch!  This has worked for me.  Hope it helps.

We have a copier at my new job that is a perfect example of frustration in
action.  If you copy at the 100% setting, your copies are actually printed
at 101%.  So to get an accurate copy of the original, you must reduce to
98%. . . 

----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 20:14:46 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: photos of glass
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 23:10:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.181049.0>
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Organization: @Home Network
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Thanks from me too, and try this site that I found while surfing
around---

http://www.glass.com/gl10000.htm

it lists lots of glass manufacturers-and has a new swiss site-great
pictures


Debi Overton wrote:
> 
> ... terrific German full antique that
> > downloads *fast! It's the Glashuette Lambert home page at
> > http://www.lamberts.de
> >
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 20:49:39 1997
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To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: ] Ma Bell is reaching for our pockets again.]
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:53:44 -0800
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I am forwarding this to everyone in my address book to help gain support
to block this legislation against the net.

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<DT>I am forwarding this to everyone in my address book to help gain support
to block this legislation against the net. &nbsp;</DT>

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Return-Path: <tmorg@clnk.com>
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          for <j_d_buch@clnk.com>; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:09:24 -0600
From: tmorg@clnk.com (Tony Morgan)
To:       j_d_buch@clnk.com <j_d_buch@clnk.com>
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:09:24 -0600
Message-ID: <19970207140755769.ACT76@Tmorg>

PLEASE READ AND ACT!  THIS AFFECT ALL OF US!
 
List of House of Reps:

	http://clerkweb.house.gov/members/house.htm?57,22

List of Senators' published email addresses:

	http://www.senate.gov/senator/membmail.html

 I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter
 currently under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has
 filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your
 internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the
 operation of the telephone network.

 It is my belief that internet usage will diminish if users were
 required to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an
 email box for your comments, responses must be received by February
 13, 1997. Send your comments to 

	isp@fcc.gov 

 and tell them what you think.

 Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to sneak
 it in just under the wire for litiagation. Let everyone you know here
 this one. Get the e-mail address to everyone you can think of.

	isp@fcc.gov

Please forward this email to all your friends on the internet so all
our voices may be heard!



------------6CDC324A121B0--



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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 23:21:09 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs
From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Delphi Sales?
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 02:20:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.212040.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am ordering from Delphi for the first time and they offer a 25% discount on
the first order (very generous, I think).  I've also seen messages alluding
to their fall sales.  Do they also offer a 25% discount each fall?  If they
do, it would reorder the priorities of what I'm going to be ordering right
now and what I could wait until the fall to purchase.  Does anyone know?  TIA
for any info on this!  

Susie
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 07:49:09 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 15:47:58 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.154758.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


We take two approaches ...... with a private residential commission it's
10-25% upon agrement of the pattern, then the balance due upon installation
or delivery ..... with commercial (builders or contractors) we ask for
50-75% up front, then the balance due upon installation or delivery.
Generally, our residential commissions are smaller jobs where our resources
are not tied up for extended periods, so there is little strain to keep
cashflow up while the job is in progress.  However, some commercial jobs may
take months to complete, so if we do not take a large deposit up front, we
can't pay the bills while the job is in progress.  Just consider the length
of the job, how much of your internal resources are going to be involved,
and make sure you stage payments so you can meet your bills.  Surely, your
client will find this approach only fair.

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

 

At 02:25 AM 2/8/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi fellow forum members;
>        A while back we had a discussion on pricing, and
>contracts/agreements.  Someone even posted theirs, which I saved and is
>coming in handy now... Thank you.   However, now that I am thinking about it
>more carefully, a couple of questions come to mind.
>
>1.  It seems only fair to tell the client at the outset, how much a project
>will cost.  However, if you haven't an approved design, how do you know how
>much to charge?  The kind of glass, the number of pieces etc... are still
>unknowns...
>
>2. This particular agreement which I kept a copy of, has a warranty
>section... which seems only fair to the client.  However what is the usual
>period of years that one guarantees the workmanship and materials for?
>
>I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
>design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 
>
>
>Thanks for any advice or comments on this one, and thanks for the advice on
>the Mosiac question!     Meg
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 08:04:35 1997
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Patterns
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 11:00:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.6031.0>
References: <<199702050411.EAA14683@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

Maybe everyone knows this, but while I was looking for a pattern of
"Bamboo" I was also doing some artwork in MS Publisher 2.0-where I not
only found the clip art,and sized it to what I was looking for,  but
printed it out on my color printer in just the size I wanted-5 1/2
inches wide by 19 1/2 inches long. To print this size on most printers
it will be "tiled on 2 sheets". Easy to stick together.  I have
completely overlooked the "clip art" in my computer-and feel a little
silly. This bamboo design is part of a larger piece, so if you need a
design, or part of a design-try your "clip art" gallery. 

Just an idea I thought I would pass along, this 'old dog' can still
learn new tricks. :-)

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 08:28:44 1997
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X-Path: scv.net!fullspec
From: Kay Allen <fullspec@scv.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 08:24:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970208162443.00667ed4@mail.scv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Elisabeth,

While catching up on my mail today I came across this marvelous descriptive
narrative of yours and just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed it.  You
are definitely someone I'd like to know.  Please keep inspiring us.

Kay

At 00:26 7-02-97 +0000, you wrote:

From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 08:56:58 1997
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X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz
From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 10:55:17 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702081655.KAA03532@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 08:25 PM 2/7/97 -0600, Richard LaVal wrote:
>Hi fellow forum members;
>        A while back we had a discussion on pricing, and
>contracts/agreements.  Someone even posted theirs, which I saved and is
>coming in handy now... Thank you.   However, now that I am thinking about it
>more carefully, a couple of questions come to mind.
>
>1.  It seems only fair to tell the client at the outset, how much a project
>will cost.  However, if you haven't an approved design, how do you know how
>much to charge?  The kind of glass, the number of pieces etc... are still
>unknowns...

Initially you can suggest a range of prices based on the factors you
mentioned above.
The bonus is that you can get *feel* for the kind of money a potential
client might be willing to spend and proceed accordingly

>2. This particular agreement which I kept a copy of, has a warranty
>section... which seems only fair to the client.  However what is the usual
>period of years that one guarantees the workmanship and materials for?

There is really no hard and fast standard for this I would think that a
minimum of 5 years would be acceptable many offer lifetime, some do not
offer any at all. 
You have to consider that some panel installations are more vunerable to
damage ( doors and operable windows) then others and the client should be
aware of where your liability ends. 

>I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
>design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 

To me the key here is that you are covered thoughout the process. A  small
non-refundable initial design fee which tests the seriousness of the clients
intent  followed by a percentage that will cover your outlay for materials
and supplies. I usually go 10% (or $100 min) 40% 50% I know it's not always
possible but try to avoid putting pencil to paper... or mouse to pad for
that matter, :-)  unless your being paid.


Len

>Thanks for any advice or comments on this one, and thanks for the advice on
>the Mosiac question!     Meg
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 10:48:07 1997
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X-Path: icsp.net!rballard
From: Robin Ballard <rballard@icsp.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Delphi Sales?
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 12:43:57 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.64357.0>
References: <<1997Feb7.212040.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I am ordering from Delphi for the first time and they offer a 25% discount on
> the first order (very generous, I think).  I've also seen messages alluding
> to their fall sales.  Do they also offer a 25% discount each fall?  If they
> do, it would reorder the priorities of what I'm going to be ordering right
> now and what I could wait until the fall to purchase.  Does anyone know?  TIA
> for any info on this!
> 
> Susie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Hi Susie!

Yes, to your question on Delphi.  They have a new coupon in their
catalog when the new version comes out every year.  I also stock up from
them when the new catalog comes out.  They also send sales flyers out
during the year which can be helpful when you need to stock up on solder
or foil, etc.

Robin B.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 12:03:52 1997
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From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Delphi Sales?
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 13:04:50 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.6450.0>
References: <<1997Feb8.64357.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I've ordered from Delphi quite a few times.  Good service.  They have a
20% (I think it was) off on all Morton stuff.  It's in January and
February.  I can't remember about the Fall sale, too long ago for me.

-Debi
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 12:04:11 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 14:03:11 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702082003.OAA08114@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 08:25 PM 2/7/97 -0600, Richard LaVal wrote:
>Hi fellow forum members;
>        A while back we had a discussion on pricing, and
>contracts/agreements.  Someone even posted theirs, which I saved and is
>coming in handy now... Thank you.   However, now that I am thinking about it
>more carefully, a couple of questions come to mind.
>
>1.  It seems only fair to tell the client at the outset, how much a project
>will cost.  However, if you haven't an approved design, how do you know how
>much to charge?  The kind of glass, the number of pieces etc... are still
>unknowns...
>
>2. This particular agreement which I kept a copy of, has a warranty
>section... which seems only fair to the client.  However what is the usual
>period of years that one guarantees the workmanship and materials for?
>
>I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
>design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 
>
>
>Thanks for any advice or comments on this one, and thanks for the advice on
>the Mosiac question!     Meg
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 12:45:58 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: glass
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 15:39:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.103933.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

i got a question, i'm desgning a new very complex box. i want to use a
blue irridescent. armstrong comes to mind but i need a thickness of an
1/8". armstrong is too thick. i would use spectrum but the irridscent is
too dull, i want something flashier. i like the look of bullseye, does
anyone know the approx. cost of bulls eye? say a 18"x24" sheet of blue,
CL, Irridscent (matte, and maybe gloss)? i just need a basic average for
the cost, i really don't want to spend too much. just a direction to go
when i tell my store to order some..

just so you know, if you were wondering what the project is, it's this:
a 12" x 5" x 12" (maybe), oval shaped box (not like a pill, put the
sides are oval). the main feature of the box is the tambour doors it's
going to have. i've already figured out how to do the doors, and right
now i'm still in the designing stage.

on one other note, i hav'nt added anything really new to my page, but i
put up my really cool title for my page. designed it myself..:)

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 13:29:28 1997
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X-Path: usaor.net!madglass
From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Glass Magic 3.0
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 16:27:34 -0500
Message-ID: <199702082130.QAA16347@gate.usaor.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know if there is a web site for Micro Glass?  thanks in
advance.

mad

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 14:10:41 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 17:08:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.12828.0>
References: <<1.5.4.32.19970207151554.0067b8f8@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Martin Streng wrote:
> 
> Great idea!
> I could make a contribution of at least 2 sun-catchers.
> One suncatcher is a 2-dimension translation of a small statue, depicting a
> man embracing a woman ("very 60-ties" according to my teacher). It has a
> very special place in my heart and it is untill now the only piece i am
> really satisfied with.
> The other is a turtle Dick Bruna stile, it was made for a new-born. It has
> some very interesting design-aspects, mainly about strength.
> 
> But who should i send them to?


I will volunteer to collect the designs...and hopefully maybe Scott with 
SGN will volunteer to publish them.....anyone else have any input on 
directions to go with this, please contact me.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 14:15:37 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 17:24:23 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.92423.0>
References: <<199702082130.QAA16347@gate.usaor.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Cornell University
Precedence: bulk

Mary Ann Dulemba wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know if there is a web site for Micro Glass?  thanks in
> advance.
> 
> mad
> I haven't seen a web site however, the e-mail address for them is:		MicroGlass@aol.com
> ----
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-- 
B. J. Snell, Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 14:17:08 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 16:14:31 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702082214.QAA11872@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mike,
 
It would run about 4.50 a pound WHOLESALE... the last I checked...  bullseye
sheets are approx 19.5x34 or approx 4.6 sq ft and weigh about 7.5 pounds or
about 34.00 WHOLESALE plus costs.... so a sheet at the store could run
anywhere from, what?.....  75.00 to 400.00  ;-)

Good luck on your new project

Len
 
OBTW ...  marine blue is 1108-10F  cobalt blue is 1114-10F  turquoise blue
is 1116-10F

matte finish only I believe
 

. i like the look of bullseye, does

>anyone know the approx. cost of bulls eye? say a 18"x24" sheet of blue,
>CL, Irridscent (matte, and maybe gloss)? i just need a basic average for
>the cost, i really don't want to spend too much. just a direction to go
>when i tell my store to order some..

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 15:59:59 1997
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From: "=?Windows-1250?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" <michu-g@lodz.pdi.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: A tribute to life's aproach  of  Elisabeth and her dog Toby.
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 01:58:53 +0100
Message-ID: <199702082359.AAA12179@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



----------
> From: Mary Ann Dulemba <madglass@usaor.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Glass Magic 3.0
> Date: 8 lutego 1997 22:27

Thanks to everyone expressing concern  ' bout such trouble maker
as I'am.-I' ve been  voyeur only for some lenght of time(bungi cncerned)
otherwise very active in music field.
Our studio runs as usual ,commercialy speaking, except more and more
percentage of commisions are "TV soap opera style" level of  artistic =
value
which pisses me off and is the  reason   I'm devoting more  and more =
time
to my previous life-love, which is music.
Unexpected  success of musical  undertakings we took resulted in my =
absence
in your mailing club.
Since then  artistic group I'm managing being also a part of,  noticed =
several
successes.
Strange enough it intermixes with S.G.  'couse latest commission we =
successfuly
completed was unusual in a way  that we were hired to design and make
impression of  WATERDROPS   listening to M.Urbaniak's URBANATOR
latest CD ( one of my old time friends  I am representing commercialy in =
Europe)

After live concert  attendance, customer -( nouveau riche aiming for =
social status)
accepted double price, receiving  Michael's signature  on latest record =
release.
It's a fact  that it has  been  designed  listening to his music and was =
endorsed=20
and  simmilar design ordered  by his wife for their N.Y. house- thats =
what you call
marketing!.- it should tell  some of of you how ambivalet art pricing =
can be and add
to your  S.G. pricing policies discusion. =20
You are not going to be annoyed by my postings often since I  will be =
traveling
around Europe a lot, dividing my time between S.G voyerism  and  =
self-audio expression
live in jazz music.
Being sure you'll find   good replacement in another fine polish S.G. =
maker who lately  joined
Bungi  mail  with well deserved success I thank all of you who first =
supported me in=20
four letter battle against moral majority and than could not find time =
to answer me
on "off  bungi basis"- that's life.
Love you all - keep doing what you do privately and sharing it with the =
others!
Due to my  back-trip into music I,ll  be only voyeur  of  your list for =
some time  =20
until   my  body stilll accepts frequent travels and   drum pounding at =
night gigs.
How about  seeing nice S.G works In Italy for example and destroying it =
on purpose
with leaving reference of repair to one of you deceiving europeans on a =
trip to Chartres?

Love , peace and understanding

Greg
your swearing beast from savage East            =20



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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 16:05:35 1997
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X-Path: enter.net!ejl2
From: "Maverick" <ejl2@enter.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Price Comparison
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:01:31 -0500
Message-ID: <199702090004.TAA29812@mail.enter.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
>
> I am ordering from ______ for the first time and they offer a 25%
discount on
> the first order (very generous, I think).
> 
If you compare Delphi's and Glass Crafter's prices to
Warner-Crivellaro's prices you will be
astounded at the difference!!!! I may be partial, probably because
I've been buying from them for years, but no one else can match the prices.
Just for instance - if you add up the
prices of the following items (i've ordered most of this stuff in the last
year):
         ITEM            GLASSCRAFTERS           DELPHI         
WARNER-CRIVELLARO
Toyo Pistol Grip            28.95               28.95                22.95
Metal Runners               11.95                9.95                 8.95
Grozer/Breaker               7.95                6.95                 5.95
Temptrol 100 Iron           42.95               44.95                39.95
Pop Top WIZ Grinder         89.95               85.95                56.95*
                                                                 *(with
$100 purchase of other merchandise)
Lead Cutters                10.95                6.95                 5.95
Soldering Iron Stand        10.95                9.95                 6.95
Copper Foil Dispenser       12.95               11.95                 7.95
100 1-5/8" SUCTION CUPS     14.99               15.00                 9.95
Oak Fan Base w/cord         10.95               11.90                 6.95
Intro. to S.G. Book         13.95               13.95                11.16
60/40 solder                 6.95                5.95                 3.50*
                                                                *(with $100
purchase of other merchandise)
7/32" copper foil            3.95                3.25                 3.00
Morton Portable Glass shop  42.95               42.95                31.95
(mixed 3 price)
Morton Maxi Surface         22.95               22.95                17.10 
  "       "
Morton Safety Break System  15.95               15.95                11.66 
  "       "
Night Light Fixture w/Bulb   2.00                2.20                 1.25
                TOTAL --> $350.77             $339.70              $252.07

These are Warner-Crivellaro's everyday prices, lately, I've been getting
monthly
sales flyers with some good deals, especially quantity price breaks. 

Well, in any case, I sound like an advertisement, so I'm going to shut up
now.  I hope that at the very least I saved you a couple of bucks.

Maverick

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:30:30 1997
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X-Path: frognet.net!paul
From: paul wallace <paul@frognet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Delphi Sales?
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 97 21:28:32 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.52832.0>
References: <<1997Feb7.212040.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi.  Paul here from Bumblebee Stained Glass in Ohio.  We teach class 
and have seen a number of our students with Delphi Catalogs.  Yes 
they often offer 25% off the 1st order. They are computerized and as far 
as I know is a one shot deal.  I'm sure that the computer would tell 
them when someone has already used the discount.  We do 
occasionally order wholesale from them and I will say that they have 
always provided excellent service & carry quality items.  If you will look 
at the catalog they have a toll free technical help #. They will 
answer any technical problems you are having with a project and 
offer excellent advice. I have never stumped them!   Good luck.  Paul  
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:43:38 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: boonie...???
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199702090242.CAA01264@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Debi,
For a Swedish/UK "nerd" like me, what's   "boonies"
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Debi wrote:
  This site has great pictures of
the glass, and since I live in the boonies and have to mail-order most
of my stuff, at least I get an idea of what I'm buying.

And thanks everyone for the great storage tips.  

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:43:40 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199702090242.CAA01165@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Meg, 
You are making me feel immensely guilty. The original contract 
posting (if I remember correctly) originated from Len Alcamo months 
and months ago. I promised him to give an example of how I in my 
business arranged and worded written contracts. It is a long over-due 
"matter to be dealt with", but not one I have forgotten.
The one thing I stipulate in my contract is that the glass is of MY 
choice. If the customer has specific requests, demands & 
requirements, than this might cost extra.
Contrary to you folks in USA, we in UK quote per sq.ft. We have been 
through this before; it does seem to be a matter of personal 
preference and style of working., so I won't get drawn on that issue 
anymore.
Personally, I give my customers a written quotation before I even 
lift a pencil to draw the first line of the design. My quotation is 
valid for 30 days, thereafter subject to confirmation. In my 
quotation I state that as part of the acceptance of my quotation the 
customer should pay 30% deposit. Once I have that, the customer has 
then established his "right" of his turn. I will draw designs that I 
will show him. Once he declares himself happy I will ask him to 
initial those designs as part of his agreement. 3-4 months later (or 
whatever) he will receive the completed stained glass together with a 
final invoice. That invoice is paid ON delivery of the stained glass. 
NOT 30 days later, NOT "I'll send you a cheque"-syndrome. Mind you, 
during the "creation-period" I will have been frequently in touch 
with the customer. So he is - on the whole - fairly well informed 
exactly at what stage his panel/s is/are at. This also gives HIM time 
to budget and pay me on delivery day.

It is totally reasonable to demand a deposit before you start even 
the design. The fact that the customer has to pay up front, also  
makes HIM aware of "making a commitment". THEN if you chose to demand 
another 25% on  "agreeing the design" stage and the last 50% on 
delivery, is again perhaps a personal choice. I personally find that 
I get better motivated by  leaving the "lion's share" to very last. 
Also I am not tempted to spend money I haven't yet honestly 
earned.....
I think your approach is right, but whatever you do, always make sure 
to cover your back and be totally professional about it. And ALWAYS 
let the customer know exactly what to expect.
As regards guarantee/warranty time, I find it diffucult to pronounce 
on this for you in USA. My practice is that I will visit my stained 
glass sites once a year for a "check-up" for about 3-5 years; I will 
advise my customers about what and what not to do. But if the kids chose 
to kick a football through my panel/s then its THEIR look-out, not mine. I will 
charge them commercial rates for the repair. Mind you, it's still 
going to be cheaper for them to come to me, because I have the 
original drawings (That's another thing; make sure that you keep as 
your possession and RIGHT all the original drawings...).
The whole thing is, a stained glass panel that you have made just 
simply is NOT a television set that has been mass-produced in a 
factory. How can you give a guarantee on a painting (other than it is 
an "original") ??
It's a difficult one....
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Meg wrote:
Hi fellow forum members;
        A while back we had a discussion on pricing, and
contracts/agreements.  Someone even posted theirs, which I saved and is
coming in handy now... Thank you.   However, now that I am thinking about it
more carefully, a couple of questions come to mind.

1.  It seems only fair to tell the client at the outset, how much a project
will cost.  However, if you haven't an approved design, how do you know how
much to charge?  The kind of glass, the number of pieces etc... are still
unknowns...

2. This particular agreement which I kept a copy of, has a warranty
section... which seems only fair to the client.  However what is the usual
period of years that one guarantees the workmanship and materials for?

I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:43:45 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hounds
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199702090242.CAA01340@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Gloria (3hounds)
So what's stopping you (apart from money..)?
C'mon over!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Gloria wrote:

Elizabeth,
That is one of the most enjoyable lifes I have ever read... My Borois 
should have such a wonderful life in the fields..they do do alot for my 
gardens.. enjoy the coming of spring.
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:43:47 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199702090242.CAA01298@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thank you Gloria,
How very kind of you.
My head is already spinning from the incredible interchange between 
"you and us".  I am learning so much too. And with the great sense of 
fun, warmth and sharing that the majority in Glass@Bungi crowd are 
giving out - am "having a ball".....    :-)  
But, of course, there is a serious side too....
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Gloria  (3hounds) wrote:
Elizabeth,

It was so sad to here the state of stained glass in the UK.. Again, I 
feel that I live the  sheltered live and take so much for common.  If I 
can ever help in your endevours, leave me know.
3 hounds

in reply to Elisabeth, who wrote:
> Maybe it might still be in the Bungi Archives somewhere, but quite a
> number of months ago I posted a "historical rambling" to the effect
> of that the glass manufacturing (for stained glass) died in UK with the
> Advent of Oliver Cromwell. He was was the fellow who went about
> smashing up churches in UK. He didn't only smash up churches, he also
> smashed up and destroyed the manufacturers who made ornamentations
> for the churches, i.e. especially and including  stained glass
> artists studios and glass making studios/workshops. The stained glass
> "industry" in UK never really recovered from this devastation and many
> glass making techniques were lost forever.Compensations were then
> brought into the UK from elsewhere in Europe, especially the
> Flemish/Dutch and German artists. But don't forget, they too suffered
> the vagaries of wars and destructions. A re-birth of sorts in UK
> really only happened in the 19th Century with William Morris. Since
> when there are a couple of British Glass manufacturers producing
> glass for the stained glass industry. But a couple only. But the majority of glass we
> use today are imported from USA, Germany, France, Belgium and
> now Poland. Slowly and often painfully, we are trying to reconstruct
> destroyed past history and bring it into context of the 20th and 21st
> Century.The impact of Tiffany in Britain was quite substantial, not
> so much  in his designs and flamboyance,( which somehow doesn't appear
> to fit well with the British "pallet"), - the conservative Brits still
> find him "over the top", but much more resulting in a new surge of historical
> interest in the stained glass tradition and its revival. John Piper
> and Patrick Reyntiens - the 2 giants in Britain of stained glass of
> the 20th Century, never quite reached the emotional "common man" chord. Too
> academic, too remote, too dry, too abstract - I just don't know. What
> has caught the "common man's" imagination in Britain is the revival
> of the Arts & Crafts Movement, Victorian and Art Nouveau stained
> glass.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:43:48 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199702090242.CAA01395@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Kay,
How very kind of you!     Luckily you can't see me blush...
Watch Out! There is a plan afoot that I might just be able to make it 
"Across the Pond" in 1998 ( (swimming sessions are going FINE, pity 
the pool is so short!!)
(Please don't tell Toby!)
What about some patterns for our "Atlas" ???

Elisabeth 'n Toby


Kay wrote:
While catching up on my mail today I came across this marvelous descriptive
narrative of yours and just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed it.  You
are definitely someone I'd like to know.  Please keep inspiring us.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:44:23 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199702090242.CAA01481@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everybody,
So there IS a real interest to  "cook" something together!!!
Wonderful!!!
Someone asked if it had to be done FAST. But of course not!! Good 
Things ALWAYS take time. Let's be realistic; I can't see anything 
concrete emerging until the end of this year at the earliest...
 I have opened a special file where  I save 
peoples' ideas and contributions. So keep 'em coming.
We have already had an offer for a PRINTER (so there!!)
By popular demand Albert Lewis has already been volunteered as the 
EDITOR - though he doesn't know it yet... (or does he?? He is keeping 
very quiet!!). I think I too would like to ask him. I will, and will 
try to make him an offer ha can't refuse (I hope..) I think I would 
also like to involve Scott. I myself would be quite happy to assume a 
role of a Progress Chaser and a contributor (lead only). Joyce is 
offering to be our COLLECTOR
So what I called a "Birth Team", we  are almost half way there (well, 
almost...)
We have already seen a number of willing contributors. Can we have 
more lead people please! What about all you folks with mosaics?? More 
3-D people! (Butterflies, Boxes, and....and...).   ... and LAMPS!!?
And this is only a few days after the idea was voiced.
Not Bad, eh!
There is a lot of enthusiasm for the idea.
MORE please!!
Eisabeth 'n Toby

P.S. Martin: Hang on to them for the moment.... (we need to clarify 
with Joyce)

Martin Streng wrote:
> 
> Great idea!
> I could make a contribution of at least 2 sun-catchers.
> One suncatcher is a 2-dimension translation of a small statue, depicting a
> man embracing a woman ("very 60-ties" according to my teacher). It has a
> very special place in my heart and it is untill now the only piece i am
> really satisfied with.
> The other is a turtle Dick Bruna stile, it was made for a new-born. It has
> some very interesting design-aspects, mainly about strength.
> 
> But who should i send them to?

Joyce Moran wrote:
I will volunteer to collect the designs...and hopefully maybe Scott with 
SGN will volunteer to publish them.....anyone else have any input on 
directions to go with this, please contact me.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 19:19:47 1997
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From: "Cindy (Di)" <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Price Comparison
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 22:00:59 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.14059.0>
References: <<199702090004.TAA29812@mail.enter.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Excellent report on pricing. Well done.

My local store is Whittemore-Durgin, it's about 25 minutes of back road 
driving away.  I once was sick so I ordered by UPS, at the same time I 
oredered from Cline in Oregon. (Whittemore is in Mass.) Cline showed up 
in seven days, Whittemore showed in 9 days. But.... if you look closely 
at Whittemore's catalog, a little bit of work will find some astounding 
bargains.  I just purchased 100 lbs of Exotic mixture. 
Youghaney(spelling) most is high strike production run. Some is 
experimental, but all of high quality, no mud. If you bought this by the 
pound piece meal, it would cost you over $570. Look carefully at the 
mixture price. 100 lbs for just over $200 dollars. Then look even closer 
at their sales flyer, it is listed at $156.00. Now, 100 lbs equals 60.6 
square feet. Can you beat $2.57 per square foot?  Remember this is their 
ring mottled, multi-colored glass. I found some stipple mixed in as well.

Can you afford to wait for UPS? I could.

phil7


Maverick wrote:
> 
> > SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I am ordering from ______ for the first time and they offer a 25%
> discount on
> > the first order (very generous, I think).

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 19:36:03 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: boonie...???
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 22:04:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.18433.0>
References: <<199702090242.CAA01264@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> Hi Debi,
> For a Swedish/UK "nerd" like me, what's   "boonies"
> Elisabeth 'n Toby

boonies = boondocks = hinterlands = in the middle of nowhere = close to
nothing
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 19:44:46 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 22:12:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.181239.0>
References: <<199702090242.CAA01481@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

E & T-

Where is Albert hiding? We know he is here. 

Do you want to volunteer me for anything? I'd be happy to help in any
way I can.

Hilary

> 
> Hi Everybody,
> So there IS a real interest to  "cook" something together!!!
> Wonderful!!!
> Someone asked if it had to be done FAST. But of course not!! Good
> Things ALWAYS take time. Let's be realistic; I can't see anything
> concrete emerging until the end of this year at the earliest...
>  I have opened a special file where  I save
> peoples' ideas and contributions. So keep 'em coming.
> We have already had an offer for a PRINTER (so there!!)
> By popular demand Albert Lewis has already been volunteered as the
> EDITOR - though he doesn't know it yet... (or does he?? He is keeping
> very quiet!!). I think I too would like to ask him. I will, and will
> try to make him an offer ha can't refuse (I hope..) I think I would
> also like to involve Scott. I myself would be quite happy to assume a
> role of a Progress Chaser and a contributor (lead only). Joyce is
> offering to be our COLLECTOR
> So what I called a "Birth Team", we  are almost half way there (well,
> almost...)
> We have already seen a number of willing contributors. Can we have
> more lead people please! What about all you folks with mosaics?? More
> 3-D people! (Butterflies, Boxes, and....and...).   ... and LAMPS!!?
> And this is only a few days after the idea was voiced.
> Not Bad, eh!
> There is a lot of enthusiasm for the idea.
> MORE please!!
> Eisabeth 'n Toby
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 20:51:49 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Delphi Sales?
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 23:51:02 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.18512.0>
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Paul,

Thank you for the reply!  Everyone has been very helpful and kind.  But I've
received two different answers to this question so far so I think I might
need to call Delphi and ask them directly.  It seems that the other opinion
is that there is a 25% off offer on a person's first order from each new
catalog, not just the first time ever.  Confusing, huh?  But thank you for
responding.

Susie
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 20:57:30 1997
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Subject: Thank you!
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 23:56:40 -0500 (EST)
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And I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to answer my questions about
the Delphi discount and places to visit in Arizona and Texas!  It's nice to
know that help is never very far away!

Warm regards,

Susie
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 00:37:17 -0500 (EST)
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<< mactac >>

Never heard of this.  What is it?  Barbara
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To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: DR Glass & Others
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 00:57:45 -0500 (EST)
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<< If by DR you are referring to Double Roll >>


What is this?  Barbara
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 22:01:23 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 22:20:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.15203.0>
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Hi Joyce,
	How very brave of you.  I have a couple designs I'd like to 
contribute and I have your address.
	However, one thought comes to mind.  To simplify the printing 
process, I'd recommend that all submitted designs be print ready -- 
that is, presented on, oh say 81/2 X 11 white paper, with thick 
(Sharpie-made) lines.  And possibly submit a photo of the finished 
product, if available?
	Let me know what you think.  And I'll be working on a couple to 
send to you.
	Can we market this?  How can each of us get a copy of the final 
assembled book of patterns?  Do we need to find another volunteer to 
handle the business end, if any, of this endeavor?  I'm very excited 
about all of this.  It wasn't too long ago that we were referred to as 
an extended family.  What a cool perspective.  With people like 
yourselves so willing to give of your time and knowledge, it's almost a 
folksy way of dealing with others who have common interests.
	Just so you'll know, we have a small cottage-based accounting 
business.  So please be aware of how valuable our time is right now.  
The accounting allows me to treat myself to glass and other little 
goodies.  But I will devote the time necessary to convert a couple 
patterns into a format that is deemed best for this type of pattern 
gathering.
	You've been so generous and continue to be.  Thanks for taking 
part in this.  I hope it goes forward and is fun for anyone who wants to 
participate.
			T. in Montana

> I will volunteer to collect the designs...and hopefully maybe Scott with
> SGN will volunteer to publish them.....anyone else have any input on
> directions to go with this, please contact me.
> 
> Garden of Glass
> Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 22:08:30 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: boonie...???
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 22:27:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.152737.0>
References: <<199702090242.CAA01264@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Hi Elisabeth:  Boonies is a colloquialism, a version of "boondocks" 
which is also a slang word meaning litterally-- wild and dense brush, 
jungle, back country, hinterland.  In other words, in the middle of 
nowhere.  It may not be the end of the earth, but you can see it from 
there.
	Glad to see you back on the keyboard and chatting wildly about. 
 T. in Montana

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi Debi,
> For a Swedish/UK "nerd" like me, what's   "boonies"
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> Debi wrote:
>   This site has great pictures of
> the glass, and since I live in the boonies and have to mail-order most
> of my stuff, at least I get an idea of what I'm buying.
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 01:08:28 -0500 (EST)
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In a message dated 97-02-03 22:27:54 EST, you write:

<< Ed  Hoy's and a nattily attired person would escort me to a waiting lounge
>>

Don't know how long it's been since you've been to Hoy's, but I've been
"shopping" there for a while and I wander around the warehouse freely
whenever I want.  I see others doing the same.  Are you sure-footed?  :)
 Barbara
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 23:59:00 1997
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From: "Rexort International Pty Ltd" <rdeint@wt.com.au>
To: "Bungi Glass List" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: New HiGlass Web Site
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:55:11 +0800
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I just finished an initial version of the new HiGlass web site. Lots of
fused tiles, panels and plates are included. 

The URL is
http://www.wt.com.au/~rdeint/higlass.htm

Please let me know of any problems and your comments. Thanks.

Regards,
Harald Reiss
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 04:46:52 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 07:51:46 +0000
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> 	Can we market this?  How can each of us get a copy of the final 
> assembled book of patterns?  Do we need to find another volunteer to 
> handle the business end, if any, of this endeavor?  I'm very excited 
> about all of this.  It wasn't too long ago that we were referred to as 
> an extended family.  What a cool perspective.  With people like 
> yourselves so willing to give of your time and knowledge, it's almost a 
> folksy way of dealing with others who have common interests.

Joyce,

You've just described in a nutshell almost exactly what Gerry Phibbs 
says is the reason the Guild was formed three-four years ago. I guess 
if an avenue to market the final product is needed, the Guild could 
do it, although I'm talking off the top of my head here without any 
authorization from the Board of Directors.

I still think a printed version wouldn't be necessary, since the 
images could be stored online and printed out by anyone anywhere.

albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 04:46:53 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 07:51:46 +0000
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> Where is Albert hiding? We know he is here. 

Albert hiding? Nah. I didn't realize I'd been volunteered as editor, 
though ... very flattering.  Thanks.

If you all are serious about a Glass Atlas of Patterns and the 
intention is to share them, then it seems to me that the best and 
most open way of gathering, storing and disseminating them would not 
be by doing so in print, but by archiving them here on bungi.

That way, anyone can access them, print out the desired pattern, etc. 
All of them should be originals, though, not "favorite" patterns from 
published (copyrighted) materials, right?  Perhaps you've all already 
covered that ground; I'll have to admit that I haven't been paying 
close attention to the Glass Atlas thing.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 06:21:54 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 09:20:29 -0500 (EST)
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On Sun, 9 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:


> 
> I still think a printed version wouldn't be necessary, since the 
> images could be stored online and printed out by anyone anywhere.
> 
> albert


Albert, mi amor! 


Must we fall in on the side of the elitists? Must we decree that only
those with plenty of money and a nerdy edge are good enough to use our
patterns? Hard as it is for us to remember, there a plenty of folks who
lack a computer but are still worthy people! Some of them even do glass.

As a dues-paying IGGA member I'm of course biased on this point, but let
me introduce it anyway. Could we not direct whatever small profit might be
realized by hard copy to the IGGA's school building fund?

Mary



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 06:38:14 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: boonie...???
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 09:36:11 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970209094558.26878a56@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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    Thanks T.   
                        I laughed right out loud when I read your definition
of "boonies"
Not only does it perfectly describe  the location but state of being when
one is there.    

At 10:27 PM 2/8/97 -0700, you wrote:
                     
>.  It may not be the end of the earth, but you can see it from 
>there.
>	Glad to see you back on the keyboard and chatting wildly about. 
> T. in Montana
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 07:08:32 1997
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From: Kay Allen <fullspec@scv.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 07:02:25 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970209150225.0068e8dc@mail.scv.net>
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What is the proposed itinerary for your 1998 USA visit?  Would really enjoy
meeting you.
I wish I could contribute to the original patterns for the Atlas on bungi
but I have been so caught up in learning technique that I haven't persued
any creative talents I may have.  I'm at the stage where I really feel
accomplished when I can enlarge an existing design just through" eyeballing"
and a little help from a projector.  I used to pay a stained glass
retailer-artist to enlarge a pattern to my dimensions but I walked into his
shop one day and saw him using the projector so thought to myself, I can at
least do that!  I know somewhere deep inside I'm a creative person so with
time I will try to do some original designs but right now I'm still a
technician.


At 03:00 9-02-97 +0000, you wrote:
>Dear Kay,
>How very kind of you!     Luckily you can't see me blush...
>Watch Out! There is a plan afoot that I might just be able to make it 
>"Across the Pond" in 1998 ( (swimming sessions are going FINE, pity 
>the pool is so short!!)
>(Please don't tell Toby!)
>What about some patterns for our "Atlas" ???
>
>Elisabeth 'n Toby
>
>
>.
>----
>.
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 07:28:14 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:26:57 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970209103644.249f50bc@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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        Public schools and community colleges have made computer labs
available to anyone that wants access to them......  Public Service Ads are
on the air all of the time, featuring the availability of these
computers.....  Syracuse public library system featured a quilting month.
Design, patterns, techniques, demonstrations, all from their computers .
Not to mention the absolutely beautiful quilts  on display contributed by
local quilters with one thing in common ..... quilts.  Have you seen the
price of a good quality hand made quilt lately.... wow !!!!!
        I still support  the "net" idea.......   people in my community will
be able to receive benefit of this information .... without having to absorb
the cost of traveling to something like  the IGGA school whenever it comes
to  fruition.


At 09:20 AM 2/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>On Sun, 9 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:
>
>
>> 
>> I still think a printed version wouldn't be necessary, since the 
>> images could be stored online and printed out by anyone anywhere.
>> 
>> albert
>
>
>Albert, mi amor! 
>
>
>Must we fall in on the side of the elitists? Must we decree that only
>those with plenty of money and a nerdy edge are good enough to use our
>patterns? Hard as it is for us to remember, there a plenty of folks who
>lack a computer but are still worthy people! Some of them even do glass.
>
>As a dues-paying IGGA member I'm of course biased on this point, but let
>me introduce it anyway. Could we not direct whatever small profit might be
>realized by hard copy to the IGGA's school building fund?
>
>Mary
>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 08:02:32 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Atlas
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:02:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970209101154.26877e74@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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  Good Morning               
                I just created a new mailbox for Glass Atlas.... this
discussion is getting serious.  I really like the idea of sharing the
information over the net vs. publishing.  
                I have just started designing my own patterns and have
tripped into an area that pleases me ..... I have been designing fans that
can be either attached to elec stands as a night /accent light or placed in
plate stands.  Only one completed so far.
                ( Mardi Gras time of year is a perfect time for getting
inspired, the colors are so rich.)
                I have several patterns ....  used all of my skills that I
learned in the lst grade with construction paper and glue. Worked pretty
good, so far the easiest way for me.  (We all start somewhere, right?)   I
will get serious about the patterns and make sure they can be used by real
people... Elisabeth I wished I lived next door so you could help me with
Dragonfly.  I am afraid I am not quite ready for that.
                        
                        Bottom line, I would like to contribute as well as
gain more than I have from all of you.... 
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 09:04:54 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 09:00:38 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.1038.0>
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maruca@netaxs.com wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 9 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> >
> > I still think a printed version wouldn't be necessary, since the
> > images could be stored online and printed out by anyone anywhere.
> >
> > albert
> 
> Albert, mi amor!
> 
> Must we fall in on the side of the elitists? Must we decree that only
> those with plenty of money and a nerdy edge are good enough to use our
> patterns? Hard as it is for us to remember, there a plenty of folks who
> lack a computer but are still worthy people! Some of them even do glass.
> 
> As a dues-paying IGGA member I'm of course biased on this point, but let
> me introduce it anyway. Could we not direct whatever small profit might be
> realized by hard copy to the IGGA's school building fund?
> 
> Mary
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Ok, folks I am fairly new at stained glass (one year at it).  Sold all
our show qualtity rabbits and turned the barn into a stained glass room. 
Really nice, I have a large working table, lots of counter space, a
built in light table, a drafting table, lots of space for glass storage,
and a peg board for hanging tools, a laundry tub with running hot and
cold water and even an old refrigerator to keep my pop cold.  I left
space in the corner for my husband's N-Gauge train layout, but he hasn't
put it there yet so I am gradually taking over that space too.  
     Anyway, I connected to this site about a week ago.  So some things
I know what you are talking about and others I don't.  The latest thing
I see is the IGGA.  I don't know what it is and would like to know if it
is a group for people interested in stained glass. What are it's
benefits.  Do they have a magazine and what does it cost?  
     By the way, I was the one who put something on here the other day
for the search of a realistic (not fairy tale looking) castle and I
haven't seen anyone reply to it.  Are they just not available anywhere?
     You can snail mail me details or the IGGA at 2710 Cohoe Road,
Ellensburg, Washington  98926 or e-mail me at fishbait@televar.com
Thanks, Bonnie Clark
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 09:15:14 1997
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X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 12:11:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.71157.0>
References: <<1997Feb8.15203.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>         However, one thought comes to mind.  To simplify the printing
> process, I'd recommend that all submitted designs be print ready --
> that is, presented on, oh say 81/2 X 11 white paper, with thick
> (Sharpie-made) lines.  And possibly submit a photo of the finished
> product, if available?


I agree the more ready for computer the better...I would prefer designs 
are already scanned and can be sent by email, but I do have scanner 
equipment and am open to scanning any that come by snail mail.   It 
would of course be easier if they were 8 1/2 x 11 and would fit right 
through the scanner easily.  I'm thinking a written description of the 
project by the author, may or may not come in handy along with a color 
photograph of the finished project.  Sometimes especially in 
abstract/modern type designs, if you know something about the meaning of 
the design from the designer's viewpoint, it means so much more than 
just a view of the design.  Another maybe is the real name of the 
designer (to give credit where credit is due) and date of the designs.

I'm ready to start receiving designs by email, with the stipulation that 
if we add stuff necessary to attach to the design (photo, description 
etc) that I can email back and get the required stuff from you.  I will 
give out my snail mail address by request if you email me privately.  
Any snail mail stuff sent should definitely have an email address 
included so I can ask for anything else that's necessary.

I'm excited!

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 09:24:17 1997
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X-Path: mindspring.com!marissam
From: Marissa McLaughlin <marissam@mindspring.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Elizabeth's US visit
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 09:24:59 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970209172459.0067a294@pop.mindspring.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elizabeth,
        I hope you are planning an extended visit to the US.  If any of us
misses the opportunity to meet you we will be very disappointed.  I think I
can speak for everyone when I say that we have all grown very fond of you.

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 09:24:45 1997
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X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz
From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:22:42 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702091722.LAA06472@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>
>Don't know how long it's been since you've been to Hoy's, but I've been
>"shopping" there for a while and I wander around the warehouse freely
>whenever I want.  I see others doing the same.  Are you sure-footed?  :)
> Barbara

Hi Barbara,

Now that you mention it I might have appeared to be a stumble bum, Hoy stop
was always at the tail end of the day which started about 3 a.m. with a 6
hour road trip.

It's been a few years since I've there. I'm glad to hear that you can pick
your own sheets.

My work used to be more organic in design and sheet selection was more
critical. Now I just order a mixed case and hope for the best.

  
Len

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 10:13:30 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: A tribute to life's aproach  of  Elisabeth and her dog Toby.
Date: 09 Feb 97 13:09:09 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.1899.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Greg (you savage beast),

Wonderful to hear from you again.  Please do drop by now and again as you have a
chance.  As for me, I also divide my time between stained glass and music.  But
my music is mostly classical (vocal and flute/piccolo).  I'm soloing with a
local orchestra next month.  Got to go right now...Got a vocal ensemble
performance this afternoon and must get into my "diva dress".

...Christie Wood

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 12:00:59 1997
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: New HiGlass Web Site
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:01:29 -0500
Message-ID: <9702092001.AA16965@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Harald wrote:
>I just finished an initial version of the new HiGlass web site. Lots of
>fused tiles, panels and plates are included. 
>
>The URL is
>http://www.wt.com.au/~rdeint/higlass.htm
>
>Please let me know of any problems and your comments. Thanks.

Harald,

Would love to check it out....having problems connecting.  You 1st page with
HiGlass is the only thing that loads.  Nothing else. When you click on the
HiGlass link on the page
there is no connection???  No fused tiles, panels or plates there. 

my best,
pj
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 12:52:00 1997
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From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:48:34 -0500
Message-ID: <199702092054.PAA29750@gate.usaor.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

thank you!

----------
> From: B. J. Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
> Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 8:24 PM
> 
> Mary Ann Dulemba wrote:
> > 
> > Does anyone know if there is a web site for Micro Glass?  thanks in
> > advance.
> > 
> > mad
> > I haven't seen a web site however, the e-mail address for them is:	
MicroGlass@aol.com
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> -- 
> B. J. Snell, Cornell University
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 13:47:35 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: New HiGlass Web Site
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 16:53:12 +0000
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> >http://www.wt.com.au/~rdeint/higlass.htm

> Would love to check it out....having problems connecting.  You 1st page with
> HiGlass is the only thing that loads.  Nothing else. 

It worked all right for me, pj. Try again.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 13:47:38 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 16:53:12 +0000
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> > Must we fall in on the side of the elitists? Must we decree that only
> > those with plenty of money and a nerdy edge are good enough to use our
> > patterns?

Yes, quite.  Sorry ... I guess I hadn't had my 15th cup of coffee yet 
... whatever, I was certainly asleep. I guess I should have said that 
*I am excited about webbishness and I guess that's meant I've 
forgotten about paperness, if you get my drift.  What I should have 
said is that both web-access versions of the images that also work 
when printed out should be kept in mind. The latest issue of "Common 
Ground: Glass" was done mostly that way: designed for the web *and 
print simultaneously.  This leads to some restrictions, since the web 
can't do everything that print can, but there you are.  The issue 
seems to "work"; I'd just keep that in mind, otherwise one doubles 
the amount of work in the end, prepping something once for print and 
then again for the web.


>      Anyway, I connected to this site about a week ago.  So some things
> I know what you are talking about and others I don't.  The latest thing
> I see is the IGGA.  I don't know what it is and would like to know if it
> is a group for people interested in stained glass. What are it's
> benefits.  Do they have a magazine and what does it cost?  

Glad to mail you the info, sure. Do you have web access, a browser? 
If so, you can find out all about the Guild (or the IGGA, to put it 
more formally) by going to http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga and 
clicking on the various parts of that home page. Benefits, discounts 
to members, back issues, lists of suppliers ... and soon, very soon, 
a very nice (if I say so myself, 'cause I designed it) the updated 
version of the Sources Guide that's just too cool (again, if I say so 
myself ... I proud of it!).  The suppliers have until this Friday to 
correct their information, update it, confirm email and site 
addresses, etc., then it'll be released.  I'll tell you when.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 13:48:42 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 16:54:18 +0000
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> > > I haven't seen a web site however, the e-mail address for them is:	
> MicroGlass@aol.com


I tried that address.  No joy.  Unknown at aol.com

albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 14:16:07 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!Nancyohara
From: Nancyohara@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 17:15:11 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.121511.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I AM NOT SURE WHY I AM GETTING ALL OF YOUR MAIL.  I HAVE ABOUT 12 OR MORE
E-MAIL MESSAGES TODAY IN MY MAILBOX.  HELP! I WON'T DELETE THEM UNTIL I HEAR
FROM YOU. THEY ALL SEEM TO HAVE YOUR ADDRESS ON THEM.  SOME MIX UP.  MAYBE I
DID SOMETHING WRONG LAST NIGHT WHILE I WAS ON LINE.  HOPE I DIDN'T TRANSFER
ALL YOUR MAIL TO ME.  I'M SO CONFUSED.  SORRY!
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 14:44:21 1997
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X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter
From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  Bungi Glass Atlas of Patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 16:42:38 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.104238.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Hey Dudes and Dudettes!!!

OK, OK, OK....I just knew I would manage to find a good spot in this
discussion to jump into...a job perfectly suited to my particular
situation and talent.....well, here it is:

IF YA'LL WANT IT ON THE NET, I WILL VOLUNTEER THE SERVER SPACE

I also have a scanner and will be happy to scan patterns and pictures
for this project for free.  Give a shout if you want either.

Shirley & the Armadillo
Grapeland, Tx.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 15:24:00 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:23:28 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970209183308.1affba6c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Perhaps asking Stephanie at Delphi might be helpful.  I bought the program
through Delphi and needed to contact MicroGlass.  Stephanie facilitated the
contact for me.  If the address has changed, she may know the new one.
                 Stephanie, are you listening?

At 04:54 PM 2/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> > > I haven't seen a web site however, the e-mail address for them is:	
>> MicroGlass@aol.com
>
>
>I tried that address.  No joy.  Unknown at aol.com
>
>albert
>
>Albert Lewis, Executive Director
>International Guild of Glass Artists
>A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
>http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 16:07:21 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:00:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.14049.0>
References: <<1997Feb9.121511.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Nancyohara@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I AM NOT SURE WHY I AM GETTING ALL OF YOUR MAIL.  I HAVE ABOUT 12 OR MORE
> E-MAIL MESSAGES TODAY IN MY MAILBOX.  HELP! I WON'T DELETE THEM UNTIL I HEAR
> FROM YOU. THEY ALL SEEM TO HAVE YOUR ADDRESS ON THEM.  SOME MIX UP.  MAYBE I
> DID SOMETHING WRONG LAST NIGHT WHILE I WAS ON LINE.  HOPE I DIDN'T TRANSFER
> ALL YOUR MAIL TO ME.  I'M SO CONFUSED.  SORRY!
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


just say get me off the list, or something to that effect. somehow i
guess you got onto the list.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 16:27:53 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:23:02 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116160513.1c97b624@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I would be glad to share a design or two... however, several of my better
ones are for panels of up to maybe 2x3 feet.... how to scale that down to 8
1/2 x11 and not loose small details???? Or should the designs all be simple,
or for suncatchers????  Meg


At 10:20 PM 2/8/97 -0700, you wrote:
>	However, one thought comes to mind.  To simplify the printing 
>process, I'd recommend that all submitted designs be print ready -- 
>that is, presented on, oh say 81/2 X 11 white paper, with thick 
>(Sharpie-made) lines.  And possibly submit a photo of the finished 
>product, if available?
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 16:28:14 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:23:08 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116160518.1c97d7b6@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi;
        Funny your saying that about your rabbit barn... we have a goat -
then rabbit barn which I have been eyeing with covetous eyes..... the
remodeling has been what has kept me from doing it as yet.  The 2nd floor of
the horse barn where I currently am, is too near the road, and therefore too
many drop bys..... between 1-4 pm one day 27 people dropped in!!  The rabbit
barn is up a steep hill!!!  :)  Meg


....folks I am fairly new at stained glass (one year at it).  Sold all
>our show qualtity rabbits and turned the barn into a stained glass room. 
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 16:28:16 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Elizabeth's US visit
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:23:11 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116160521.2ab75a04@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Me too ... but I'm in Costa Rica, so add a stop!  Meg

At 09:24 AM 2/9/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Elizabeth,
>        I hope you are planning an extended visit to the US.  If any of us
>misses the opportunity to meet you we will be very disappointed.  I think I
>can speak for everyone when I say that we have all grown very fond of you.
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 17:22:39 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 20:28:27 +0000
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hell, all,

Oh, I have been lurking on this issue ... feeling as though I am too 
new to the group, too new to the craft (and that for me, for now, I 
am still a craftsperson and not yet an artist.)

I have made a few original pieces, but I'm not sure I would feel 
they are sophisticated enough to include in such company.

So, I will sit out the inaugural issue ... unless, of course, I am 
very happy with my new mosaic ... I am working on a Queen Conch. If 
that turns out, perhaps I will dare to share.

Thanks to all for being here when I need help.

M.-J.
M.-J. Taylor 
<athena@bridge.net> 

Although we cannot change the direction of the wind,
              we can adjust our sails.

 
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 17:35:18 1997
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From: Chris Kloosterman <cklooste@cswnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Price Comparison
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:35:06 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.13356.0>
References: <<199702090004.TAA29812@mail.enter.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: progress radio
Precedence: bulk

Maverick wrote:
> 
> > SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I am ordering from ______ for the first time and they offer a 25%
> discount on
> > the first order (very generous, I think).
> >
> If you compare Delphi's and Glass Crafter's prices to
> Warner-Crivellaro's prices you will be
> astounded at the difference!!!! I may be partial, probably because
> I've been buying from them for years, but no one else can match the prices.
> Just for instance - if you add up the
> prices of the following items (i've ordered most of this stuff in the last
> year):
>          ITEM            GLASSCRAFTERS           DELPHI
> WARNER-CRIVELLARO
> Toyo Pistol Grip            28.95               28.95                22.95
> Metal Runners               11.95                9.95                 8.95
> Grozer/Breaker               7.95                6.95                 5.95
> Temptrol 100 Iron           42.95               44.95                39.95
> Pop Top WIZ Grinder         89.95               85.95                56.95*
>                                                                  *(with
> $100 purchase of other merchandise)
> Lead Cutters                10.95                6.95                 5.95
> Soldering Iron Stand        10.95                9.95                 6.95
> Copper Foil Dispenser       12.95               11.95                 7.95
> 100 1-5/8" SUCTION CUPS     14.99               15.00                 9.95
> Oak Fan Base w/cord         10.95               11.90                 6.95
> Intro. to S.G. Book         13.95               13.95                11.16
> 60/40 solder                 6.95                5.95                 3.50*
>                                                                 *(with $100
> purchase of other merchandise)
> 7/32" copper foil            3.95                3.25                 3.00
> Morton Portable Glass shop  42.95               42.95                31.95
> (mixed 3 price)
> Morton Maxi Surface         22.95               22.95                17.10
>   "       "
> Morton Safety Break System  15.95               15.95                11.66
>   "       "
> Night Light Fixture w/Bulb   2.00                2.20                 1.25
>                 TOTAL --> $350.77             $339.70              $252.07
> 
> These are Warner-Crivellaro's everyday prices, lately, I've been getting
> monthly
> sales flyers with some good deals, especially quantity price breaks.
> 
> Well, in any case, I sound like an advertisement, so I'm going to shut up
> now.  I hope that at the very least I saved you a couple of bucks.
> 
> Maverick
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
Could you please give me the address of Warner-Crivellaro so I can
order a catalog.  Sounds like great prices.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 18:23:35 1997
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From: April Paine <vgplugs@primeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Price Comparison
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 21:25:48 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.52548.0>
References: <<1997Feb9.13356.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



                                       WC                         GC   =
                        DELphi
>                 TOTAL --> $350.77             $339.70              $252=
.07
> 
> These are Warner-Crivellaro's everyday prices, lately, I've been gettin=
g
> monthly
> sales flyers with some good deals, especially quantity price breaks.
> 
> Well, in any case, I sound like an advertisement, so I'm going to shut =
up
> now.  I hope that at the very least I saved you a couple of bucks.
> 
> Maverick
> 
>


Looks like Delphi has them beat if I'm understanding ...not WC??

vgplugs@primeline.com
http://members.tripod.com/~VictorianGreenhouse/index.html






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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 19:02:49 1997
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From: paul wallace <paul@frognet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Delphi Sales?
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 21:53:19 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.55319.0>
References: <<1997Feb8.18512.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi.  I saw the other replies too.  I stand corrected.....     Paul
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 20:09:30 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Elizabeth's US visit
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:25:18 +0000
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Marissa,
......Just as well you can't see me.... even my hair is blushng...
Toby has turned red too.
Ahem....
It started off as a joke, really. Financially,  I can't afford it.
But the Chartres T