From owner-glass Sat Jun 1 04:44:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uPp5o-0000KEa; Sat, 1 Jun 96 04:43 PDT X-Path: spdc.ti.com!mack From: mack@spdc.ti.com (Caren Mack) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Heating Patina Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 06:43:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <9606011143.AA14203@epcot.spdc.ti.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Most, if not all of you may know this but I feel compelled to mention this... Several have mentioned heating Patina. A word of caution, as with any chemical and in this case an acid, there is a flash point when they catch fire, so be carefull. I tried to to do a search on the WWW to see if I could find the flash point of copper sulfate, but my system went down. Warming may be fine like setting your bottle in warm water which has been mentioned, but warmer/hotter is not better, so don't "heat" it on the stove or microwave. Like I said above, you all may know this and hope I didn't insult anyones intelligence. If I didn't work in the Electronic industry and educated about safety, safety, safety around chemicals, I may not have thought anything about it. Good luck! -= Caren =- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 1 17:15:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQ0o4-0000WIa; Sat, 1 Jun 96 17:14 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Restoration Questions Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 17:14:01 -0700 Message-ID: <199606020014.RAA02868@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > > >This is not completely true I saw a house where it was intentionally >down, it was a curve to match the building, although you could see the >curve in the zinc. But chances are that it's just stretched. > >---Mike Savad >---- > There is a big difference between a radial curved window in a curved sash and a bowed window in a flat sash. the latter is what I am reffering to. I to have seen and fabricated intentionally curved panels. These are not buckled and bowed! M.S. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 1 17:18:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQ0rx-0000FOa; Sat, 1 Jun 96 17:18 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Heating Patina Date: 01 Jun 96 20:15:16 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun2.01516.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Several have mentioned heating Patina. A word of caution, >as with any chemical and in this case an acid, there is a flash >point when they catch fire, so be carefull.< Good thinking Caron. But the problem with the acids is not flash point but the fact that with heat, the acids become airborne rapidly and can be inhaled. In addition, many of the commercial patinas are interesting mixtures which release rotten-egg odor hydrogen sulfide. This chemical has good warning odor, but it is almost at toxic as cyanide. And the other day, I found out that a particular patina contained hydrochloric acid and tellurium. Heating this can make highly toxic tellurium chloride airborne. It has a garlicky odor. There are a bunch of nasties that don't have much odor in patinas as well. People who decide to heat patinas need to be working by a window exhaust fan or some other strong ventilation system. >....... don't "heat" it on the stove or microwave.< Listen to Caren, people. >If I didn't work in the Electronic industry and educated about safety, >safety, safety around chemicals, I may not have thought anything about it.< I'm so glad to hear that's true. I deal with workers in the "arts" industry, especially in schools and universities. Most of these people think safety is a field goal. Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist with Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 1 17:19:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQ0tQ-0000fUa; Sat, 1 Jun 96 17:19 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Heating Patina Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 17:19:22 -0700 Message-ID: <199606020019.RAA29448@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > Most, if not all of you may know this but I feel compelled >to mention this... > > Several have mentioned heating Patina. A word of caution, >as with any chemical and in this case an acid, there is a flash >point when they catch fire, so be carefull. I tried to to do >a search on the WWW to see if I could find the flash point of >copper sulfate, but my system went down. Warming may be fine >like setting your bottle in warm water which has been mentioned, >but warmer/hotter is not better, so don't "heat" it on the stove >or microwave. > Like I said above, you all may know this and hope I didn't >insult anyones intelligence. If I didn't work in the Electronic >industry and educated about safety, safety, safety around chemicals, >I may not have thought anything about it. > > Good luck! > > -= Caren =- >---- > All very good points and I don't think that you can be to careful as far as safety is concerned. M.S. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 1 21:01:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQ4La-0000wza; Sat, 1 Jun 96 21:00 PDT X-Path: stained-glass.com!webmaster From: Matt McDonnell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Restoration Question Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 00:02:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun1.2023.0> References: <<1996May31.212937.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: T and M Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis [IGGA] wrote: > > >With all due respect, glass IS a liquid. (I should know, I'm a chemist.) > >Although crowning was an intentional method of producing glass, it is > >also true that old panes will tend to be thinker at the bottom. > >However, you are correct that a 200 year old pane will not see a lot of > >settling, this is probably due to crowning. But many panes, > >particularly those found in England and Ireland which date back to the > >13th and 14th Centuries, are thinker at the bottom due to flowing glass. > > Matt, > > On a molecular level, glass exhibits the properties of both solids and liquids, > but I'd certainly be interested in a *proof* that there's a measurable flow. > Can you cite chapter, verse and source(s)? > But more to the point, "... it has been argued that cold glass should exhibit > gradual plastic flow over very long periods of time. However, demonstrations to > prove this have usually involved a misunderstanding of the actual mechanism > involved, or misinterpretation of the evidence. Thus the various phenomena which > have been claimed to demonstrate plastic flow in cold glass must be scrutinized > carefully. ... It has also been claimed that medieval window glass is thicker at > the bottom of the panes, again due to plastic flow, but there is no evidence for > this and in fact medieval glass was often so irregular in thickness that there > can be no reliable evidence that its thickness has changed." [Newton and > Davison, Conservation of Glass, Butterworths, London, 1989. p. 13] > > Since Roy Newton is the acknowledged master of this particular realm of > knowledge (he's an OBE, DSc, HonFSGT, FSA, after all!) and professor emeritus of > glass technology at the School of Materials, University of Sheffield, I think > I'll defer to him. Albert, Let me first start by saying that sarcasm is not your strong suit. It it neither necessary nor appreciated. I've become quite frustrated with the tone that many posts have taken since certain individuals have joined the list. I concur wholly with Toby that we should try to be less aloof and more cooperative on this international forum of glass information and discussion. As for *proof*, I'm sure that Mr. Newton is knowledgable, but no good scientist ever denouces another scientist's findings without performing a study himself. Other sources have stated that glass, at room temperature, is plastic. I'm not going to substatiate this argument by wasting my time going through all of my textbooks, but I will, at least, cite Hawley's Chemical Dictionary: "...glass is an amorphous, undercooled LIQUID of extremely high VISCOSITY which has all of the appearances of a solid." In other words, glass flows, slowly, but it flows. Let me request a courteous end to this argument and let us agree to disagree. Sincerely, Matt McDonnell -- T & M Stained Glass - http://www.stained-glass.com Future home of the Stained Glass Marketplace Visit soon, visit often. send inquiries to mailto:webmaster@stained-glass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 2 03:36:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQAVg-0000sIa; Sun, 2 Jun 96 03:35 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Restoration Question Date: 02 Jun 96 06:35:05 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun2.10355.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Matt, There was no intention on my part to be sarcastic, but merely to point out the facts of the matter. I'm sorry if you took my comments in that way. Roy Newton is beyond "knowledgeable" ... he's the reigning authority on the subject who references every other study done by every other scientist and whose book is heavily footnoted. If I were "aloof," as you say, I wouldn't have answered your post in the spirit of correcting erroneous information at all, but merely ignored it for the fable that it is. Newton also does not denounce any other scientist's findings, nor did I say so in my post. I invited you to cite other sources proving that glass moves at room temperature, but you won't "waste" your time by offering them. Your citation of Hawley's Chemical Dictionary only confirms what I said at the outset, that glass exhibits the properties of both liquid and solids. That doesn't mean that it flows or, if it flows, that it does so at a rate that would result in panes of glass thicker at the bottom after 700 years. And even if it did, how do you plan to prove that medieval glass has done so? How would you measure it when it was newly installed? It's exactly that point that Newton makes; there's no way to know the answer to the particular question of medieval glass, but measuring glass that we *do have as new using tests the cost of which is far beyond *our poor means, has shown that the presssure/stress needed to move the glass even a *tiny amount is a hundred times its theoretical breaking point, far beyond the point at which it would fracture into a "millyun pieces," as Carl Sagan might put it. Now I will be sarcastic, though: if by "agree to disagree" you mean that you are going to maintain the truth of what you say despite the fact that you can't or won't "waste" your time to prove it and despite the studies and published reports of reigning authorities, scientists all, and that you will insist on taking the opposite point of view regardless, I'll accept those terms. We don't learn, though, by clasping erroneous beliefs to our breasts and breaking into tears when someone else proves that they're wrong. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ P.S. I took a look at your web site ... very nice! Although I couldn't make out what the dark, muddy hypertext logo was just to the right of the Yahoo logo. I left you a messsage to that effect, since you asked for suggestions and corrections ... did you get it? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 2 03:36:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQAVg-0000uUa; Sun, 2 Jun 96 03:35 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Heating Patina Date: 02 Jun 96 06:35:02 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun2.10352.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist with >Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety And, we're proud to say, a member of the IGGA Board! __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 2 09:23:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQFvm-0000vua; Sun, 2 Jun 96 09:23 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Restoration Question Date: 02 Jun 96 12:21:45 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun2.162145.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >P.S. I took a look at your web site ... very nice! Although I couldn't >make out what the dark, muddy hypertext logo was just to the right of the >Yahoo logo. I left you a messsage to that effect, since you asked for >suggestions and corrections ... did you get it? Matt, I guess you did! I just took a look and the new version of the logo is terrific! Much nicer with a white background. You changed the Yahoo logo, too, I guess. Heck! If I were you, I'd tweak the left-hand one to match ... maybe it's just my tired old (with the emphasis on "old") eyes, but I find the colored type easier to read against white than against black or other dark colors. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 3 06:15:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQZS7-0000Xga; Mon, 3 Jun 96 06:13 PDT X-Path: source.com.au!aking From: Andrea King To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Drapery Glass Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 23:12:39 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Jan8.151239.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi to all once again, Its good to be back on line after a short break. I have a question that someone out there may by able to help me with. How do you foil drapery glass? I recently went to a seminar run by Urobos and when we were talking about drapery glass I never thought until much later to ask the question of how to foil it. We here in Australia are heading into winter of which I am not looking forward to but thankfully we don't have the extreme cold some of you had earlier this year. Looking forward to getting back into discussions with you all. Andrea ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 3 06:38:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQZpe-00011Ma; Mon, 3 Jun 96 06:38 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Drapery Glass Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 09:35:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun3.53541.0> References: <<1996Jan8.151239.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Andrea King wrote: > > Hi to all once again, > > Its good to be back on line after a short break. I have a question that > someone out there may by able to help me with. How do you foil drapery > glass? I recently went to a seminar run by Urobos and when we were > talking about drapery glass I never thought until much later to ask the > question of how to foil it. > > We here in Australia are heading into winter of which I am not looking > forward to but thankfully we don't have the extreme cold some of you had > earlier this year. > > Looking forward to getting back into discussions with you all. > > Andrea > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I've never done it myself, but I'm sure it's a real pain. I would probably try using 3/8" foil, then carefully fold it over and get it in all the nooks and crannies. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 3 08:27:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQbWb-00013la; Mon, 3 Jun 96 08:26 PDT X-Path: aol.com!GCmagazine From: GCmagazine@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Drapery Glass Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:26:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun3.72624.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Foiling drapery glass can be a project in itself. Be sure to keep extra wide foil on hand for those edges that go from wide to wider. Most drapery glass has edges of varying thickness. What we suggest is to begin foiling your pieces with the thinnest foil that is practical for the size of the piece, and then go over thicker areas with either a patch of the same foil (foiled over the original foiled area to double its width) or with a wider (7/32" or 1/4") foil, whichever will produce a more pleasing leadline. be sure to keep your meeting edges neat so that you cannot see where the foil overlaps. The trick is to keep the amount of foil folded over the edges of the glass consistent looking, no matter how wide the foil is or how many layers were necessary to foil it properly. Good Luck! Glass Craftsman Magazine ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 3 11:17:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQeBM-0000XLa; Mon, 3 Jun 96 11:16 PDT X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu (Kathe R. McDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Heating Patina Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199606031816.LAA01590@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Caren: Thanks for the warning on patina. I had chem 1a and should know better, but hey...I just melted an aluminum measuring cup yesterday with pool acid so.....I haven't tried warming patina yet but will do so cautiously! Kathe R. McDonald Office of Curricular Support "Aint no time to hate." J. Garcia 1995 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 3 11:28:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQeLt-0000pza; Mon, 3 Jun 96 11:27 PDT X-Path: atlas.na.informix.com!marissat From: Marissa Toghyani To: glass@bungi.com Subject: where is everybody? Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 14:31:34 -0500 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960603193134.002a6134@atlas> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is the server down? I'm not getting any glass email & I miss it. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 3 13:01:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQfoP-00017Aa; Mon, 3 Jun 96 13:01 PDT X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Drapery Glass Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 16:01:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun3.1213.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-06-03 09:39:23 EDT, morn@mars.superlink.net (M. Savad) writes: >> >> Hi to all once again, >> >> Its good to be back on line after a short break. I have a question that >> someone out there may by able to help me with. How do you foil drapery >> glass? I recently went to a seminar run by Urobos and when we were >> talking about drapery glass I never thought until much later to ask the >> question of how to foil it. > >> Andrea > >I've never done it myself, but I'm sure it's a real pain. I would >probably try using 3/8" foil, then carefully fold it over and get it in >all the nooks and crannies. > >---Mike Savad One of the companies that makes grinders, makes a grinding head that flattens out the edge of this type of foil making it easy to work with. I haven't tried it myself but have been thinking of trying one out. Has anyone else tried it?? Janet Farrington IMN2GLASS@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 3 16:17:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQirc-0000mya; Mon, 3 Jun 96 16:16 PDT X-Path: lightlink.com!sharrow From: "Earle E. Sharrow" To: Marissa Toghyani Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun3.151238.0> References: <<2.2.32.19960603193134.002a6134@atlas>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm getting mail from bungi.com as usual,and your mail is getting there OK. This reply is just to let you know. If you continue to get nothing, re-subscribe. Good luck. On Mon, 3 Jun 1996, Marissa Toghyani wrote: > is the server down? I'm not getting any glass email & I miss it. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 3 18:11:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQkdO-0000pma; Mon, 3 Jun 96 18:10 PDT X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: Elaine & Howard Rubin To: Glass list Subject: oh no, not again Date: Mon, 03 Jun 96 18:03:47 -0500 Message-ID: <199606040109.SAA12510@desiree.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- A simple tip for drapery (if it is really drapery glass) and not just a ripple.... Hold the glass at an angle to the grinding bit and chamfer (bevel) it a little. By the nature of it, you do not need a clean foil line. Enjoy....H *note the lack of acerbic wit. -- new construction 5-11-96... http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/hrubin.htm http://www.teleport.com/~weaver51 Elaine and Howard, mastering technology one byte at a time! E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 4 15:30:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uR4aN-00018ca; Tue, 4 Jun 96 15:28 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Drapery Glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 23:17:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199606042234.XAA19607@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk To Craftsman Magazine in particular, every one else in general. Teaching stained glass techniques does have its pitfalls; introducing students s l o w l y to the mind-boggling variety of glass is quite a restriction (you do so want to make them "fly") I have encountered students who have "done" one first panel and want to dive straight into copper-foiling techniques. They disappear into a dreamy mist when let loose inside a glass supplier and turn up in class with pieces of drapery glass tht they expect being able to foil and make sense out of in 5 minutes. What to do with all these "bumps and lumps"!!?? I am an evil, wicked, spiteful teacher - I deny all my beginner/intermediate students ANY facility of electrical grinders. Grind it down BY HAND, get the FEEL of the glass, see for yoyrself where ITS weaknesses are, where YOUR weaknesses are. When you know first how to cut what you describe as "lumps and bumps" and can do it (at your cost!!) well, learn to use copperfoil in such a way that edges and overlaps don't show up, THEN and only then will I let you near a grinder. I am very appreciative of your comments about copper-foiling drapery glass (as we know it). Input from people like you is very valueable. It confirms a lot of theory of what a lot of us just "feel is right", without always knowing why. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 4 15:30:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uR4a3-00019Ga; Tue, 4 Jun 96 15:28 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Soldering Irons Weller W100 Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 23:17:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199606042234.XAA19609@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Picked up your messages about problems of cleaning flux and patina. It seems to have gone round full circle, as I remember saying a week or so that nothing substitutes a little old-fashioned "elbow grease" for cleaning. Am delighted that this is now the experience of the come-back messages. As regards the "pot-cleaners" instead of fine real wire wool, they are an excellent idea. The problem in UK is that these pot cleaners are so minuscule, that you end up with nothing between your finger tips and the lead/solder. Only very lately have substitute "plastic" wire wool - in different grades - been properly on the market here - in proper "hand-fist sizes" . One of my students brought some along to Class in a considerable quantity (he'd got it for free!!) I myself want to work with a reasonable "wadge" in my hands that I can manouvre over the solder. Plastic Pot cleaners, as WE know them across The Pond, disintegrate to nothing. And what the dog hasn't managed to find and shred, you are left wiring down with your bare finger nails . Great "turn-on" for a romantic evening out!!!! Good luck to Katie and Meg in Costa Rica. Elisabeth ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 4 15:32:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uR4dF-0000s6a; Tue, 4 Jun 96 15:31 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Drapery Glass Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 15:31:07 -0700 Message-ID: <199606042231.PAA27516@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Foiling drapery glass can be a project in itself. Be sure to keep extra wide >foil on hand for those edges that go from wide to wider. Most drapery glass >has edges of varying thickness. What we suggest is to begin foiling your >pieces with the thinnest foil that is practical for the size of the piece, >and then go over thicker areas with either a patch of the same foil (foiled >over the original foiled area to double its width) or with a wider (7/32" or >1/4") foil, whichever will produce a more pleasing leadline. be sure to keep >your meeting edges neat so that you cannot see where the foil overlaps. The >trick is to keep the amount of foil folded over the edges of the glass >consistent looking, no matter how wide the foil is or how many layers were >necessary to foil it properly. > >Good Luck! > > Another way to go is to foil the whole piece with 1/2" foil and then using an exacto knive trim the foil line to a desired width all along. Using this technique you can get some very fine lines. We often use it to restore painted pieces with a hair line of foil showing. M.S. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 4 16:57:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uR5yJ-00010Ha; Tue, 4 Jun 96 16:57 PDT X-Path: aol.com!FStryczek From: FStryczek@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Stained Glass Candle Holders Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:57:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun4.15572.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk About 10 or 15 years ago I bought a votive-type candle holder that was decorated with stained glass. It is 3" wide, and 6" tall. Basically, it is a clear glass candle "jar" that has 1/2" strips of stained glass glued vertically around the outside, with some kind of black grout used to fill in the spaces between the pieces of glass. The glue that was used was clear, allowing for the use of even cathedral glass, with no measurable distortion of color or transparency. This candle holder has held up nicely over the years, with no glass pieces coming un-glued, nor has the black grout deteriorated in any way. With the many boxes of scrap glass that I've accumulated over the years, I would like to make some of these candle holders for gifts and possibly as a sale item. Can anyone recommend sources for: Clear glue for glass that can withstand candle flame heat? Black grout that can withstand candle flame heat? Clear glass votive-type candle "jars"? any advice would be appreciated. Thanks! Frank Stryczek Des Plaines, Illinois, USA FStryczek@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 4 20:14:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uR92d-000111a; Tue, 4 Jun 96 20:13 PDT X-Path: hopserv.interhop.net!dsymington From: dsymington@hopserv.interhop.net (Don Symington) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: transoms? Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 23:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199606050302.XAA05434@hopserv.interhop.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just a quick question regarding strength of the finished projects. I am VERY new at this hobby but have great enthusiasm... I have a transom that is simply begging for stained glass. It measures approximately 43 inches at the base and 20 inches high. My concern is that the few larger projects that I have worked on (with foil) have felt slightly flexible. Is there a secret (different solder or more of it, specific glass cleaner, wider foil?? framing?) or is it recommended I learn to use came before attempting the larger transoms and sidelights? One other problem I have experienced in my short career is that the foil lifts from the glass on occation...was my glass not clean enough, should I have spent more time pressing it to the glass? Any words of wisdom? Thanks, Stacey ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 4 23:31:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRC7Q-0001Boa; Tue, 4 Jun 96 23:31 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!vnunit1 From: vnunit1@ix.netcom.com (RICK D VAUGHN) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Drapery Glass Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 23:30:48 -0700 Message-ID: <199606050630.XAA12284@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >One of the companies that makes grinders, makes a grinding head that flattens out the edge of this type of foil making it easy to work with. I haven't tried it myself but have been thinking of trying one out. Has anyone else tried it?? > >Janet Farrington >IMN2GLASS@aol.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > We have used the bit you are talking about and love it! You get an edge which is easier to foil and burnish and a very pretty lead line. Gives a nice contrast to the heavy texture of the glass. Works with all heavily textured glasses. Teresa Color It Glass! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 5 01:50:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uREI1-0001Aia; Wed, 5 Jun 96 01:50 PDT X-Path: source.com.au!aking From: Andrea King To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Drapery Glass Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:49:31 -0800 Message-ID: <1996Jan10.104931.0> References: <<199606050630.XAA12284@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk RICK D VAUGHN wrote: > > You wrote: > > > >One of the companies that makes grinders, makes a grinding head that > flattens out the edge of this type of foil making it easy to work with. > I haven't tried it myself but have been thinking of trying one out. > Has anyone else tried it?? > > > >Janet Farrington > >IMN2GLASS@aol.com > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > We have used the bit you are talking about and love it! You get an > edge which is easier to foil and burnish and a very pretty lead line. > Gives a nice contrast to the heavy texture of the glass. Works with > all heavily textured glasses. > Teresa > Color It Glass! Can you tell me what this bit is called, sounds a very handy piece to have on hand. Thanks everyone for your advice and tips on using drapery glass, and yes Howard it is drapery glass not ripple and it was nice to have your input. Andrea ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 5 09:07:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRL62-0000cxa; Wed, 5 Jun 96 09:06 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: transoms? Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 12:03:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun5.8339.0> References: <<199606050302.XAA05434@hopserv.interhop.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Don Symington wrote: > > Just a quick question regarding strength of the finished projects. > I am VERY new at this hobby but have great enthusiasm... > > I have a transom that is simply begging for stained glass. It > measures approximately 43 inches at the base and 20 inches high. My > concern is that the few larger projects that I have worked on (with foil) > have felt slightly flexible. Is there a secret (different solder or more of > it, specific glass cleaner, wider foil?? framing?) or is it recommended I > learn to use came before attempting the larger transoms and sidelights? > > One other problem I have experienced in my short career is that the > foil lifts from the glass on occation...was my glass not clean enough, > should I have spent more time pressing it to the glass? > > Any words of wisdom? > Thanks, Stacey > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, as for the foil sticking, was the glass ground? if it was make sure a wash it off under running water and get all the powder off. was the glass clean to start with? when ever i start a project i always clean both sides of the glass until it's absolutely clean. what size foil or how old is the foil? do you have lotion on your hands? is the glass still damp? and most important of all do you rub all sides down with a fid of some kind (a length of wood works, i use a 1/4" dowel that i ground in a pencil sharpener.) For the transom, there is a few things that you can do: 1. You can put reinforcing tape in between the joints, on flexible looking joints. 2. You can bend rebar to match the foil lines, very difficult. 3. You can divide the transom into quarters, like a sun, making smaller windows. 4. You may also want to use came around the borders, border came is usually used, it is usually zinc, however since there is a curve (I'm assuming) you should use lead, maybe even lead with a brass heart (stronger). 5. Or you could leave it flexible, tough you should at least bead one side if not both (if you don't already). The panel can stay flexible, until it goes into the opening. I made a 3'x3' panel once and it flopped around like paper, but once I got that oak border around it, it's pretty darn strong. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 5 09:09:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRL8j-00010ca; Wed, 5 Jun 96 09:08 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Drapery Glass Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 12:06:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun5.8628.0> References: <<1996Jan10.104931.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Andrea King wrote: > > RICK D VAUGHN wrote: > > > > You wrote: > > > > > >One of the companies that makes grinders, makes a grinding head that > > flattens out the edge of this type of foil making it easy to work with. > > I haven't tried it myself but have been thinking of trying one out. > > Has anyone else tried it?? > > > > > >Janet Farrington > > >IMN2GLASS@aol.com > > >---- > > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > We have used the bit you are talking about and love it! You get an > > edge which is easier to foil and burnish and a very pretty lead line. > > Gives a nice contrast to the heavy texture of the glass. Works with > > all heavily textured glasses. > > Teresa > > Color It Glass! > > Can you tell me what this bit is called, sounds a very handy piece to > have on hand. > > Thanks everyone for your advice and tips on using drapery glass, and yes > Howard it is drapery glass not ripple and it was nice to have your input. > > Andrea > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass There's a couple the first is the ripple bit from spectrum, another is a simple angle bit that chamfers the edge. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 5 09:27:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRLQX-00019da; Wed, 5 Jun 96 09:27 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: transom Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:24:28 -0500 Message-ID: <199606051624.LAA01663@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Stacey, remember one thing.... REAL STAINED GLASS ARTISTS USE LEAD OH! OH! that was pretty political! I bet I've opened up a can of worms for sure! Oh well, somebody needs to build a fire under this list anyway. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 5 14:09:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRPp9-00014Ra; Wed, 5 Jun 96 14:09 PDT X-Path: po.cwru.edu!txh4 From: txh4@po.cwru.edu (Theodore P. Hasenstaub) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Statement Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:08:52 -0400 Message-ID: <199606052108.RAA03672@arthur.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I always thought that "Stained Glass Artists Were Always A Cut Above the Rest". Ted ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 5 15:20:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRQwL-0000xFa; Wed, 5 Jun 96 15:20 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Statement Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:17:48 -0500 Message-ID: <199606052217.RAA07768@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I don't know about that Theodore, sounds pretty dualistic to me. I think some really know the score, while to others its merely a grind. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 5 15:45:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRR1q-00018da; Wed, 5 Jun 96 15:26 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: transom Date: 05 Jun 96 16:52:41 EDT Message-ID: <960605205241_70544.3642_JHD153-4@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >REAL STAINED GLASS ARTISTS USE LEAD >OH! OH! that was pretty political! I bet I've opened up a can of worms >for sure! Hmm. Wonder if ol' Looie Tiffany's spinning in his grave? __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 5 15:50:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRRPN-0000wca; Wed, 5 Jun 96 15:50 PDT X-Path: eos.ncsu.edu!jbbrauer From: jbbrauer@eos.ncsu.edu To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement Date: Wed, 05 Jun 96 18:40:39 EDT Message-ID: <9606052240.AA02552@c00313-11pa.eos.ncsu.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Will you two give me a break? (ha) James ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 5 17:11:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRSev-00019ua; Wed, 5 Jun 96 17:10 PDT X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:10:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun5.161034.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Ted, You're a real cut up, you are. You really crack me up. :-) Janet ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 5 18:58:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRULL-0000V6a; Wed, 5 Jun 96 18:58 PDT X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: Elaine & Howard Rubin To: Glass list Subject: semantics Date: Wed, 05 Jun 96 18:52:20 -0500 Message-ID: <199606060158.SAA27124@desiree.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- To the best of my limited knowledge, we as a group in general are REALLY working with colored glass. The term "stained glass" refers to the painting on glass, usually associated with church windows. When you see an ad for stained glass in the museum type catalogs, they are right in terming it stained glass. The glass that we use is COLORED in the manufacturing, rather than being stained with paint. Back to my mellow self, not much desire (can be changed in a flash, however) to upset the "list-eners". Enjoy....H -- new construction 5-11-96... http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/hrubin.htm http://www.teleport.com/~weaver51 Elaine and Howard, mastering technology one byte at a time! E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 5 19:08:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRUUd-0001BRa; Wed, 5 Jun 96 19:08 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE:transom Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 21:05:11 -0500 Message-ID: <199606060205.VAA10894@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk That comes as news to me, I thought ol' Looie was in cryonic storage...pre-paid...with daddy's money. All kidding aside, I've been fortunate to have done resto work on Tiffany windows, amazing glass no, more correctly amazing USE of glass. The plating alone was worth the price of admission. I envied his pallette for the longest time until I became aware of some wonderful minimalist work I then realized it's not what ya got but how ya use it. My earlier comment on lead was merely a reflection of the jaded opinionated attitudes of some of the old school "shop guys" under who I served my apprentiships. Just goofin' around (it was the caffine talking) Stacey, most people learn beginning stained glass using copper foil it's faster,cleaner,less phsically demanding and more compact. Advanced crafters can do just about any thing using that process. There are some limitations to both methods and it's your awareness of those mechanical limitations that come into play when cartooning a design.Probably the biggest difference between the two is ability to dramatically vary the size of the lead lines I've used lead as much as 3/4" across the face in some large windows it's this versatility along with a certain crispness of line thatis difficult to achieve with foil that makes lead my preference. Should you learn how? If you have the time the inclination and a good teacher you bet! Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 05:41:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uReMt-000168a; Thu, 6 Jun 96 05:40 PDT X-Path: YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu!UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Statement Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 08:34:50 EDT Message-ID: <960606.083945.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<199606052217.RAA07768@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Okay, guys, it is transparently obvious that when we scratch the surface, you're all a bunch of cut-ups. By the way, has anyone actually repaired a grinder? Know if there are parts available for Glastars? My grinder is getting cranky. Often, when turning it on, we have to give it a little spin by hand to get it going. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 06:12:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRer6-0001F5a; Thu, 6 Jun 96 06:12 PDT X-Path: stained-glass.com!webmaster From: Matt McDonnell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 09:12:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun6.5128.0> References: <<960606.083945.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: T & M Satined Glass Precedence: bulk > By the way, has anyone actually repaired a grinder? Know if there are > parts available for Glastars? My grinder is getting cranky. Often, when > turning it on, we have to give it a little spin by hand to get it > going. How old is it? I consider the Glastar line to be quite affordable. Instead of trying to repair an old dog, buy a new one and use the old one for parts. I must admit, they can be quirky. We've had problems with the on/off swtich...sometimes it works, sometimes we've got to filip it on and off a couple of times. Like they say, you get what you pay for. By the time they're ready to die, they've usually paid for themselves. Matt McDonnell -- T & M Stained Glass - http://www.stained-glass.com Future home of the Stained Glass Marketplace Visit soon, visit often. send inquiries to mailto:webmaster@stained-glass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 09:37:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRi2q-00014ea; Thu, 6 Jun 96 09:36 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 12:33:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun6.83352.0> References: <<960606.083945.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu wrote: > > Okay, guys, it is transparently obvious that when we scratch the surface, > you're all a bunch of cut-ups. > > By the way, has anyone actually repaired a grinder? Know if there are > parts available for Glastars? My grinder is getting cranky. Often, when > turning it on, we have to give it a little spin by hand to get it > going. > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I'd call up glastar and ask if they have a new motor to send you, on my inland the upper plastic cover broke and they sent me a new one. So give it a try it might work. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 10:05:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRiUO-0000w6a; Thu, 6 Jun 96 10:04 PDT X-Path: hooked.net!nsherman From: Neil Sherman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 07:45:12 -0700 Message-ID: <199606061705.KAA25521@mom.hooked.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I must admit, they can be quirky. We've had problems with the on/off swtich...sometimes it works, sometimes we've got to filip it on and off >a couple of times. At the studio where I take my glass classes we keep the grinders plugged into one of those "power strip" extension cords - the kind of extension cord that has its own on/off switch. We turn the grinders on and off at the extension cord rather than on the grinder itself - cheaper to replace the cord than the grinder! Bonnie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 10:27:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRipX-00013na; Thu, 6 Jun 96 10:26 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 13:22:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun6.92256.0> References: <<199606061705.KAA25521@mom.hooked.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Neil Sherman wrote: > > >I must admit, they can be quirky. We've had problems with the on/off > swtich...sometimes it works, sometimes we've got to filip it on and off > >a couple of times. > > At the studio where I take my glass classes we keep the grinders plugged > into one of those "power strip" extension cords - the kind of extension cord > that has its own on/off switch. We turn the grinders on and off at the > extension cord rather than on the grinder itself - cheaper to replace the > cord than the grinder! > > Bonnie > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah but it's alot cheaper to just replace the switch, why spend $5-$10 when you can spend a buck or two. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 10:45:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRj70-0001EFa; Thu, 6 Jun 96 10:44 PDT X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu (Kathe R. McDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Statement Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199606061744.KAA20427@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sounds like the motor's burning out. My blender did the same thing. Kathe R. McDonald Office of Curricular Support "Aint no time to hate." J. Garcia 1995 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 10:52:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRjDk-0000qja; Thu, 6 Jun 96 10:51 PDT X-Path: macmail1.cig.mot.com!Beise_Tom From: "Beise Tom" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Statement Date: 6 Jun 1996 12:51:19 -0500 Message-ID: <199606061751.NAA12136@po_box.cig.mot.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Can anyone help me out. I want to buy a grinder for the shop area I am setting up @ home. What companies or outlets should I be going to ? _______________________________________________________________________________ From: glass@bungi.com on Thu, Jun 6, 1996 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Statement To: glass@bungi.com >I must admit, they can be quirky. We've had problems with the on/off swtich...sometimes it works, sometimes we've got to filip it on and off >a couple of times. At the studio where I take my glass classes we keep the grinders plugged into one of those "power strip" extension cords - the kind of extension cord that has its own on/off switch. We turn the grinders on and off at the extension cord rather than on the grinder itself - cheaper to replace the cord than the grinder! Bonnie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by macmail1.cig.mot.com with SMTP;6 Jun 1996 12:15:44 -0500 Received: from motgate2.mot.com ([129.188.136.20]) by pobox.mot.com (8.7.3/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id MAA28034 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:16:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [204.119.71.2]) by motgate2.mot.com (8.7.3/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with SMTP id RAA19495 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:15:02 GMT Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRiUO-0000w6a; Thu, 6 Jun 96 10:04 PDT X-Path: hooked.net!nsherman From: Neil Sherman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 07:45:12 -0700 Message-ID: <199606061705.KAA25521@mom.hooked.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 11:13:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRjXw-0001FXa; Thu, 6 Jun 96 11:12 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 14:05:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun6.1055.0> References: <<199606061751.NAA12136@po_box.cig.mot.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Beise Tom wrote: > > Can anyone help me out. I want to buy a grinder for the shop area I am > setting up @ home. What companies or outlets should I be going to ? > well, i have an inland grinder (i think it's the best). i had one of them for about 10 years now and another about 6, and it has'nt given me any problems yet. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 11:19:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRjdz-0001Bma; Thu, 6 Jun 96 11:18 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Grinder sources Date: 06 Jun 96 14:17:06 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun6.18176.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Can anyone help me out. I want to buy a grinder for the shop area I am >setting up @ home. What companies or outlets should I be going to ? Tom, If you'll download IGGA01.TXT from the bungi.com archives, you can do a search on "grinder" and you'll turn up 12 companies that manufacture or distribute grinders. That file is one of about 30 that we uploaded a couple of weeks ago for just this kind of search. Good luck! __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 12:11:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRkSC-00018Aa; Thu, 6 Jun 96 12:10 PDT X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: Elaine & Howard Rubin To: Glass list Subject: grinders Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 12:10:34 -0500 Message-ID: <199606061910.MAA01888@desiree.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- This is Howard...I maintain accounts with most MAJOR wholesalers, and can have a new grinder dropped shipped with payment made to me. Give me a chance to offer a "competitive price". Shop and get a quote, and I usually can have a lower price for the SAME unit From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 12:22:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRkd0-0001A6a; Thu, 6 Jun 96 12:21 PDT X-Path: camadm.Camosun.BC.CA!COOPERD From: cooperd@camadm.Camosun.BC.CA To: "GLASS@BUNGI.COM" Subject: Seattle glass shops Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 12:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun6.52141.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Does any one know of any good glass supply shops in Seattle or in the Seattle area, we are going over in July and I would like to visit a couple if they are easy to find for a visiter. Donna!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 14:51:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRmxd-0000kua; Thu, 6 Jun 96 14:51 PDT X-Path: nethawk.com!1091 From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Statement Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:51:44 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >By the way, has anyone actually repaired a grinder? Know if there are >parts available for Glastars? My grinder is getting cranky. Often, when >turning it on, we have to give it a little spin by hand to get it >going. When mine was on the fritz, I took it to a local motor repair place. They fixed it but it didn't stay fixed for very long. A bit had gotten stuck on the shaft and when my husband and I tried to carefully take it off without damaging anything, we apparently drove the shaft into the fan and bent the fan. Since the motor repair place didn't have parts, they told me it might not be a good fix. Anyway, the next time I would certainly send it back to the manufacturer instead. BTW, the whole incident was a good excuse to get a more powerful and larger grinder. Sue 1091@nethawk.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 15:46:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRnJ3-0000zda; Thu, 6 Jun 96 15:13 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Seattle glass shops Date: 06 Jun 96 18:10:10 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun6.221010.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Does any one know of any good glass supply shops in Seattle or in the >Seattle area Donna, can you buy at wholesale from the distributors? If so, we show three of 'em on our list 1 Northwest Art Glass 2 Rings & Things 3 Big M Stained Glass although only Big M is in Seattle itself. If you're looking for retail shops, large and small, our records show 28 of those, which I could email to you, if you like. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 17:30:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRpRB-00019qa; Thu, 6 Jun 96 17:30 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: transoms? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 01:19:30 +0000 Message-ID: <199606070037.BAA13268@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Stacey, Agree totally with the thoughtful and helpful coment from Len. In the end, it all boils down to "elbow grease" and attention to detail. With stained glass there IS no short-cuts. It is a very labour intensive Art/Craft and there ain't much we can do about it either. (and - often would wish to)... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 17:31:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRpRC-0000vIa; Thu, 6 Jun 96 17:30 PDT X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: transom Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 01:19:30 +0000 Message-ID: <199606070037.BAA13266@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Wow!! Am I too late for the "party"?! REAL stained glass artissts ONLY use LEAD !!! A couple of years ago there was a very extensive exhibition in London of Picasso and his work. I went for the day with an Artist friend. It blew my mind. We DID spend the entire day there. What remained in memory most of all, and above everything else, was what Picasso did with a bicycle handle bar and a saddle as well as how he captured the very essence of a goat. The sculpture of a goat, was more a goat than a REAL goat. I never have and never can relate to his over-the-top disjointed paintings, where the head is in one place, the (one) eye somewhere else and so on. But by his own admission, he was spending a lot of time laughing up his sleeve at the expense of his adoring admirers . A REAL Artist is one who masters ALL aspects of his chosen trade/art. I too am a "lead" person, I make the occasional lamp in copper foil and the other odd copper foil object (I have a passion for pendulum clocks) I have a real old grand-father clock (about 200 years old) in my cottage that I love very much. I have even gorged out parts of my ceiling to accommodate the clock - rather than chopping about with the clock itself. It's an absolute conversation stopper, when first time visitor scan my cottage and their eyes stop at the clock and try to make sense of what I have done..... Ignorant (and there is ignorance in abundance) potential customers say: OH, so you make Tiffany lamps! No I don't and I always gently try to explain how and why I don't. In that field I am very much a novice and treading a bit on thin ice. My students - on the other hand - they do and I encourage them , if that is what they feel is right for them. As they are in some numbers gaining Arts university places, as well as post-graduate places on the basis and references I have to offer them. I must surely be getrting something right. Until I myself acquire the vision of doing in stained glass terms what Picasso did in his "metier" with the bicycle handles and his goats, I am not always sure that I can call myself anything else but an "Aspiring Artist"... How does that grab you?? Yes, I live and work "Over Here", yet I originally come from yet another set of "Across a Pond" , where Light, Nature and our living ambience is all affected by all these influences and moods. Which is why I relate to lead more than copper foil. I can't draw or paint to save my life, but I can design and my strength is my balance of colours and use of lead. I will use the entire range of lead ever thought of if appropriate in one panel, paying particular attention to the "engineering aspects". I often use 2 mm lead (also known as "string lead") which is very difficult to obtain here, because "lead afficionados" find it a particularly difficult lead to work with. I will also incorporate a copper-foil detail into a basically lead panel; and I will even use non-glass objects as a detail or a symbol. In one case I have set a piece of original masonary of the Berlin Wall into a commemorative panel, to tremendeously great effect. A side issue is, that I visited Berlin in the year when the Wall was actually built.... Stained Glass, is like writing a Shakespearian sonnet. It's rigid, it has got rules, it has got restrictions, and to be a good sonnet, it must bloody well scan in all the right places.... To become Master of the Art, you spend your life making fluidity out of something that is rigid, you strive to create harmony, colours and light refractions, a design, a pattern that people can live with and feel comforted by - despite bloody fingers and dried hands and a lonely life. You don't need to scratch very far or deep to appreciate the importance of light, colours,shape and harmony. In the history of the Western World, the greatest Patron of stained glass - after all - was the Roman Catholic Church. They were very good at playing on the human needs and the human aspirings. Stained Glass was one of THEIR mechanisms of teaching to the people that couldn't read, indoctrinating and fulfilling some of these needs of Mankind. I am turning left, right and centre, I STILL get the feed-back from "Joe in the street" that stained glass is about churches and religion.... This IS a bit of an emotional response to the latest "interchanges", it is also a bit of History thrown in. I be delighted to have you tear me to pieces. However, I did start out in life as a History Graduate. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 17:59:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRptQ-00019ga; Thu, 6 Jun 96 17:59 PDT X-Path: monmouth.com!clambert From: C Lambert To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: transom Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 20:56:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun6.165616.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB53EA.A1BB9B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow... Why is it all the truly fascinating people I have met on this = computer are so darn far away... an aspiring artist? I guess that sums = me up as well. I work in many mediums mainly for my own pleasure. The = only thing I know for sure is that working with glass is always an = education. Eventually I guess I too will learn other techniques I think = maybe that is part of the joy of life... As for incorporating other = things into my glass works. Sliced Nautilus shells are what I am = putting in a panel right now. I love it already and am combing the = beach shops for other "bits" to fight with as my mother says. Have a = great day I am going to go play with my new light table ---------- From: Toby[SMTP:toby@northlights.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 1996 9:19 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: transom Wow!! Am I too late for the "party"?! REAL stained glass artissts=20 ONLY use LEAD !!! A couple of years ago there was a very extensive=20 exhibition in London of Picasso and his work. I went for the day with=20 an Artist friend. It blew my mind. We DID spend the entire day there.=20 What remained in memory most of all, and above everything else, was=20 what Picasso did with a bicycle handle bar and a saddle as well as how = he=20 captured the very essence of a goat. The sculpture of a goat, was=20 more a goat than a REAL goat. I never have and never can relate to=20 his over-the-top disjointed paintings, where the head is in one place,=20 the (one) eye somewhere else and so on. But by his own admission, he was = spending a lot of time laughing up his sleeve at the expense of his=20 adoring admirers .=20 A REAL Artist is one who masters ALL aspects of=20 his chosen trade/art. I too am a "lead" person, I make the occasional=20 lamp in copper foil and the other odd copper foil object (I have a=20 passion for pendulum clocks) I have a real old grand-father clock (about 200 years old) in my cottage that I love very much. I have even = gorged out parts of my ceiling to accommodate the clock - rather than chopping = about with the clock itself. It's an absolute conversation stopper, when = first=20 time visitor scan my cottage and their eyes stop at the clock and try=20 to make sense of what I have done..... Ignorant (and there is=20 ignorance in abundance) potential customers say: OH, so you make=20 Tiffany lamps! No I don't and I always gently try to explain how and=20 why I don't. In that field I am very much a novice and treading a=20 bit on thin ice. My students - on the other hand - they do and I=20 encourage them , if that is what they feel is right for them. As they=20 are in some numbers gaining Arts university places, as well as=20 post-graduate places on the basis and references I have to offer=20 them. I must surely be getrting something right. =20 Until I myself acquire the vision of doing in stained glass terms what=20 Picasso did in his "metier" with the bicycle handles and his goats, I = am=20 not always sure that I can call myself anything else but an "Aspiring=20 Artist"... How does that grab you?? Yes, I live and work "Over Here", yet I originally come from yet=20 another set of "Across a Pond" , where Light, Nature and our living=20 ambience is all affected by all these influences and moods. Which is=20 why I relate to lead more than copper foil. I can't draw or paint to=20 save my life, but I can design and my strength is my balance of=20 colours and use of lead. I will use the entire range of lead ever = thought of if=20 appropriate in one panel, paying particular attention to the=20 "engineering aspects". I often use 2 mm lead (also known as "string=20 lead") which is very difficult to obtain here, because "lead=20 afficionados" find it a particularly difficult lead to work with. I=20 will also incorporate a copper-foil detail into a basically lead=20 panel; and I will even use non-glass objects as a detail or a symbol.=20 In one case I have set a piece of original masonary of the Berlin Wall = into a=20 commemorative panel, to tremendeously great effect. A side issue is,=20 that I visited Berlin in the year when the Wall was actually=20 built.... Stained Glass, is like writing a Shakespearian sonnet. It's rigid, it=20 has got rules, it has got restrictions, and to be a good sonnet, it=20 must bloody well scan in all the right places.... To become Master of = the Art,=20 you spend your life making fluidity out of something that is rigid,=20 you strive to create harmony, colours and light refractions, a=20 design, a pattern that people can live with and feel comforted by -=20 despite bloody fingers and dried hands and a lonely life. You don't=20 need to scratch very far or deep to appreciate the importance of=20 light, colours,shape and harmony. In the history of the Western=20 World, the greatest Patron of stained glass - after all - was the=20 Roman Catholic Church. They were very good at playing on the human=20 needs and the human aspirings. Stained Glass was one of THEIR=20 mechanisms of teaching to the people that couldn't read, indoctrinating = and fulfilling=20 some of these needs of Mankind. I am turning left, right and centre, I = STILL get=20 the feed-back from "Joe in the street" that stained glass is about=20 churches and religion....=20 This IS a bit of an emotional response to the latest "interchanges",=20 it is also a bit of History thrown in. I be delighted to have you=20 tear me to pieces. However, I did start out in life as a History=20 Graduate. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm=20 ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB53EA.A1BB9B20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhwAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD0AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AU01UUABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAAAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4A ATABAAAAEgAAACdnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAVAAAAU01UUDpHTEFTU0BCVU5H SS5DT00AAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAN8KwEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5N 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YgtUuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAHbV ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB53EA.A1BB9B20-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 18:20:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRqDm-00018Qa; Thu, 6 Jun 96 18:20 PDT X-Path: odc.net!arowhead From: Robert Burmister To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 02:54:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun6.195437.0> References: <<199606061751.NAA12136@po_box.cig.mot.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Digital Odyssey Internet Services Precedence: bulk Beise Tom wrote: > > Can anyone help me out. I want to buy a grinder for the shop area I am > setting up @ home. What companies or outlets should I be going to ? > ______________________________________________________________________________ Tom, check out our web page at http://www.odc.net/arrowhead. We are a new mail order company in California. Be sure to click on the discount page for discount info. Bob Burmester arrowhead@odc.net > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 19:58:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRrk1-0000wHa; Thu, 6 Jun 96 19:57 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement revisted Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:57:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun6.185731.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I thought glass artists score more - :-) Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 20:06:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRrrm-0000yMa; Thu, 6 Jun 96 20:05 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: transom Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 20:05:31 -0700 Message-ID: <199606070305.UAA17657@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >Stacey, remember one thing.... REAL STAINED GLASS ARTISTS USE LEAD > >OH! OH! that was pretty political! I bet I've opened up a can of worms for sure! > >Oh well, somebody needs to build a fire under this list anyway. > > >Len > >---- > In any case foil has it's place. In a larger window I think that came is a better solution. Not using it because you have not learned how is a bad excuse. If you are not ready technicaly to execute a project better to put it off until you have the tools. There are many reasons that lead work is more suited to architectural projects. My advise is to not shy away from learning lead work as it will trully expand your horizens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 20:07:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRrtI-0001EGa; Thu, 6 Jun 96 20:07 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 20:07:07 -0700 Message-ID: <199606070307.UAA05615@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >I always thought that "Stained Glass Artists Were Always A Cut Above the Rest". > Is that what you have on your lisence plate or your buisness card? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 20:10:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRrw1-000146a; Thu, 6 Jun 96 20:10 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: transom Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 20:09:55 -0700 Message-ID: <199606070309.UAA20046@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > > >REAL STAINED GLASS ARTISTS USE LEAD > >OH! OH! that was pretty political! I bet I've opened up a can of worms > >for sure! > >Hmm. Wonder if ol' Looie Tiffany's spinning in his grave? > > I doubt it L.T. had no fear of lead. He also had no fear of mixing techniques. What one needs to know is the limitaions of the processes and how to overcome those limitations. (grasshopper) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 20:12:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRryO-000121a; Thu, 6 Jun 96 20:12 PDT X-Path: pilot.msu.edu!rosochac From: "Lisa Anne Rosochacki" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: transoms? Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 23:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199606070312.XAA27622@pilot10.cl.msu.edu> References: <<1996Jun5.8339.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > For the transom, there is a few things that you can do: > > 1. You can put reinforcing tape in between the joints, on flexible > looking joints. If you run your reinforcement thru the entire vertical length of the panel it will make it stronger. (By vertical length I mean from top to bottom in a continuous manner, bending it inbetween the pieces) > > 2. You can bend rebar to match the foil lines, very difficult. > > 3. You can divide the transom into quarters, like a sun, making smaller > windows. > > 4. You may also want to use came around the borders, border came is > usually used, it is usually zinc, however since there is a curve (I'm > assuming) you should use lead, maybe even lead with a brass heart > (stronger). Instead of using lead i would highly suggest using Zinc Channel it is much much stronger than the lead would be, and to bend it to the curve you can use a Came Bender, it is a series of rollers that allow you to bend the came without it crimping up on you. I'm sure that your supplier would be able to show you one or may even have one that you could use to make your curves. > > 5. Or you could leave it flexible, tough you should at least bead one > side if not both (if you don't already). The panel can stay flexible, > until it goes into the opening. I made a 3'x3' panel once and it flopped > around like paper, but once I got that oak border around it, it's pretty > darn strong. > Even using a wood frame you might want to use a Zinc Channel around the outside, this will help you tie all of your solder lines together and it makes the panel stronger as well. (It will keep it from rattling around in the frame work too.) Lisa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 20:18:12 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRs3Q-0000tYa; Thu, 6 Jun 96 20:17 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE:transom Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 20:17:34 -0700 Message-ID: <199606070317.UAA04721@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > >Stacey, most people learn beginning stained glass using copper foil it's >faster,cleaner,less phsically demanding and more compact. Advanced crafters >can do just about any thing using that process. There are some limitations >to both methods and it's your awareness of those mechanical limitations that >come into play when cartooning a design.Probably the biggest difference >between the two is ability to dramatically vary the size of the lead lines >I've used lead as much as 3/4" across the face in some large windows it's >this versatility along with a certain crispness of line thatis difficult to >achieve with foil that makes lead my preference. Should you learn how? If >you have the time the inclination and a good teacher you bet! > >Len > Structuraly there is also a big difference between lead and foil. The size restrictions in a strictly foil window are very difficult to overcome, and may not be worth the effort. The big difference in my mind is the fact that in a leaded panel each piece of glass floats independent of the rest of the panel thus giving considerably more flexibility in the finished product. Mixing foiled sections in with leaded work is an interesting way to get the best of both worlds. MS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 6 20:19:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRs5F-0001A0a; Thu, 6 Jun 96 20:19 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3 From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: semantics Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 20:19:28 -0700 Message-ID: <199606070319.UAA04787@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > >To the best of my limited knowledge, we as a group in general are REALLY >working with colored glass. The term "stained glass" refers to the painting >on glass, usually associated with church windows. When you see an ad for >stained glass in the museum type catalogs, they are right in terming it >stained glass. The glass that we use is COLORED in the manufacturing, rather >than being stained with paint. >Back to my mellow self, not much desire (can be changed in a flash, however) >to upset the "list-eners". >Enjoy....H > >-- Personaly I like the term "Art Glass" as it tends to cover more of the bases. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 08:50:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uS3n2-00014ha; Fri, 7 Jun 96 08:49 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Teaching Stained Glass Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun7.1470.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk What skills should be included in the first basic stained glass class students take? I am getting ready to start a class and would like input from others as to what would be most helpful. Do you start students in lead came classes or in copper foil classes first? Any info or input will be appreciated. Peggy Johnsen edupjohn@slonet.org ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 09:20:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uS4G1-00016Va; Fri, 7 Jun 96 09:19 PDT X-Path: stained-glass.com!webmaster From: Matt McDonnell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Teaching Stained Glass Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 12:18:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun7.81819.0> References: <<1996Jun7.1470.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: T & M Satined Glass Precedence: bulk Depending on how long the class is, I don't think that skills should be addressed at all, except possibly for a teaser for the next class. The first skill I would teach would be holding a cutter and scoring and breaking glass. The first obvious things that should be covered in the first class are the materials that will be used, the types of glass, and a brief history of stained glass [Tiffany et. al.]. But most importantly, the dangers of using certain materials should be emphasized. Lead is toxic. Acid patina and flux can burn. Glass is sharp (I've got a seven-stitch scar in my foot to prove it!). Liquid solder is damn hot! (No burns for me, but my wife has a few pairs of pants with tiny burn holes in them. ). Reinforce the importance of using gloves, shields and/or goggles, where appropriate. I've always said that a safe artist is a happy artist. Matt McDonnell -- T & M Stained Glass - http://www.stained-glass.com Future home of the Stained Glass Marketplace Visit soon, visit often. send inquiries to mailto:webmaster@stained-glass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 09:23:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uS4K3-00015Za; Fri, 7 Jun 96 09:23 PDT X-Path: mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com!rund#m#_sharen From: "Rund, Sharen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Date: 7 Jun 1996 09:08:05 U Message-ID: <1996Jun7.185.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk subscribe glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 09:59:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uS4ri-00015ua; Fri, 7 Jun 96 09:58 PDT X-Path: prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Fwd: grinders Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:53:21, -0500 Message-ID: <199606071653.MAA15732@mime2.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I think this was meant for the list :-) Peggy ------- FORWARD, Original message follows ------- > Date: Thursday, 06-Jun-96 03:41 PM > > From: Howard Rubin \ Internet: (weaver51@teleport.com) > To: P M Palm \ PRODIGY: (MPGP79B) > > Subject: grinders > > This is Howard...I maintain accounts with most MAJOR wholesalers, and can > have a new grinder dropped shipped with payment made to me. > Give me a chance to offer a "competitive price". > Shop and get a quote, and I usually can have a lower price for the SAME > unit > > > ------- FORWARD, End of original message ------- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 10:18:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uS5AW-0001HEa; Fri, 7 Jun 96 10:17 PDT X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: Elaine & Howard Rubin To: "Peggy W. Johnsen" Subject: Re: Teaching Stained Glass Date: Fri, 07 Jun 96 10:18:01 -0500 Message-ID: <199606071717.KAA12945@desiree.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Hi This is Howard....It is difficult without knowing your skills and proclivity to give you an answer. What I can do is give you MY views. I have been supplying and teaching for the past 15+ years. My classes are MIXED with beginners, some experienced and my on-going lamp makers. I teach copper foil, and after the FIRST session which includes a run through of the cutting principal, cutting window glass, grinding and foiling , and a simple flow of solder on the assembled pieces, a small touch of math , and the "poser" how do 8 flat panels become a lamp and the size we/I want it to be. To minimize the flow of people to my shop, I bring a sample box of Spectrum for them to pick through, explain a bit about light transmission and density of glass. The FIRST project is a small 8 panel lamp. I explain why we will do a 6" high shade with compatible top and lower diameters to look good on a mini-base. The second week I bring their choice of glass cut to 6x24 with a few clear glass strips of the same size to "practice" jig cutting. We all do the same SIZE shade and I allow the students to have their choice of all in one plane or two or more planes. Usually all students have cut the panels, and some have started on the shape of the panel, and some even to the grinder as well. Assuming you know enough technique, I will leave out the rest. By the 4th week they have soldered (struggled) and have begun to BUY stuff from me. Next shade is bigger and has no waste (the pressure is on). After seeing their skills and work ethic, I will let them browse the Odyssey and Worden catalogues, with suggestions as to ease or methods to build their dream shade. The class also touches on manufacture of glass and properties and light through the glass. AT NO TIME do I approve or let them do "suncatchers" on my time. After the lamp trauma, they may elect to do a window, and I usually show them why some patterns are better than others. After working through the Spectrum, they get exposed to the hand-made glasses, and I usually bring in a shade I have done and explain what they are seeing. Once they have mastered the skills required to do a shade, windows are easier and need not a lot of input from me. I strive to have my students become independent of me and to work on their own. Some require the discipline of class, others look at it as a "social or evening out". I will take middle school children if they are behaved and will follow directions...at NO time is this a paid babysitting class, and I ask the adults how they feel about "kids" in the class. I give the beginners the option of backing out after the first night without any tuition being collected. I set a minimum of 10 for class, so as to provide enough for me to teach and sell to them. More questions...ask....enjoy....H -- new construction 5-11-96... http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/hrubin.htm http://www.teleport.com/~weaver51 Elaine and Howard, mastering technology one byte at a time! E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 10:31:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uS5NO-0001Dma; Fri, 7 Jun 96 10:31 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Teaching Stained Glass Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 13:30:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun7.93056.0> References: <<1996Jun7.1470.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Peggy W. Johnsen wrote: > > What skills should be included in the first basic stained glass class > students take? I am getting ready to start a class and would like input > from others as to what would be most helpful. Do you start students in > lead came classes or in copper foil classes first? Any info or input will > be appreciated. > > Peggy Johnsen > edupjohn@slonet.org > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I'd go over basic skills, safety how to score and break glass, soldering, etc. as for foil or lead, i guess it depends on what you feel more comfortable with. and of course it's important that they complete some kind of project to take home, for the beginners i would probably pick out a project, a box, or a sun catcher, or something. and then let them pick there own project. but just be sure to expect one person in the class that may be more advanced in stained glass than you, usually it would be me. I've been to quite a few classes where the teacher has only been doing stained glass for 3-4 years, compared to my 14 years of glass... well anyway just beware of them and let them do there own thing. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 11:09:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uS5xz-00015Za; Fri, 7 Jun 96 11:08 PDT X-Path: stained-glass.com!webmaster From: Matt McDonnell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Teaching Stained Glass - w or w/o suncatchers? Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 14:08:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun7.10859.0> References: <<199606071717.KAA12945@desiree.teleport.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: T & M Satined Glass Precedence: bulk Howard, I've never understood why you wouldn't let a beginner do a suncatcher. Particularly if he/she is only interested in a hobby. I don't like making them, because they don't suit my taste, but some people love them. Also, there is a huge market for them. I've seen houses where every pane of glass has a suncatcher. Despite what I LIKE to do, I wouldn't mind decorating for that person. I also remember when I was a beginner. I found suncatchers to be much less intimidating. If I messed it up, I could finish it quickly and get on to another, bigger project, like a window or lamp. Just my two cents. Matt -- T & M Stained Glass - http://www.stained-glass.com Future home of the Stained Glass Marketplace Visit soon, visit often. send inquiries to mailto:webmaster@stained-glass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 12:29:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uS7Cv-0000z7a; Fri, 7 Jun 96 12:28 PDT X-Path: prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Teaching Stained Glass - w or w/o suncatchers? Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:22:33, -0500 Message-ID: <199606071922.PAA21490@mime2.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just butting right in here, even though you addressed Howard :-) You're right about some people loving suncatchers. I had the oppposite problem, though. I was WILD to get started on a lamp, and my first instructor insisted on a panel (slightly more than a suncatcher, but not by much!) before he would even *consider* doing something more. Now, I'm no threat to Louis Tiffany, but I really was ready to do more than I was "allowed" to do, and it was somewhat frustrating. My point? Perhaps it makes sense to point out the possible pitfalls to the inexperienced, and then let people learn on the type of project they really *want* to make. One of the basic tenets of adult ed. is that adult learners are self-motivated. Give them choices and guidance when needed, and they will teach themselves. When they make howling mistakes, they will learn from that, too. [Been there, done that, don't need another one of *those* Tshirts....! ;-) ] My 2¢, FWIW! Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 13:33:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uS8Cv-0001Gma; Fri, 7 Jun 96 13:32 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: seeking advice Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:29:32 -0500 Message-ID: <199606072029.PAA08119@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I certainly enjoyed the bantering about (and the puns)over the lead/ foil thing. Great fun! I would like to get some feedback on the proliferation of brass covered came commercial windows that come factory installed in entry systems etc. Has anyone been to a shop where they are made? or are they all produced by our third world brothers and sisters? I've seen full lite entry doors with decent bevel clusters and designs going for as little as 350 bucks, scary. They have been well marketed and people are tuned into their "look". I've done a few myself over the last couple of years mostly straight line geometrics which was okay I recently completed a round top transom 6 feet at the base over the top of a dual sidelite entry which included the afor mentioned product. It was fairly tedious to construct, tight radius curves and large central bevel cluster. I combined jig and hand bending, but found that if you miss the curve a little the window grows big time on the layout and you can't really hammer it home.So what I ended up doing was to precut came section as exact as possible force it around the glass under tension, nail it in and solder as you go. This along with the necessary pre-bending helped the project move along. My biggest concern was that the thing was so loaded up under tension that when it was time to flip it over the whole panel was going to coil up like a big spring... which it didn't.Frankly, it produced a really nice stiff panel that did not require cementing or bracing. I can't really say that I like the look though , featuring the matrix of the window so that it matches the brass detail on some light fixture in the hallway, I don't really buy it. I've tried to discourage it with my clients but I'm getting more requests all the time and I'd rather not turn down the work. Has this been an issue with other shops out there and how have you delt with it, has it affected your business?have you made any of these type of windows? Any ideas on how stear clients away from it? Thanks Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 13:47:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uS8QX-0001Iia; Fri, 7 Jun 96 13:46 PDT X-Path: stained-glass.com!webmaster From: Matt McDonnell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Teaching Stained Glass - w or w/o suncatchers? Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 16:46:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun7.124638.0> References: <<199606071922.PAA21490@mime2.prodigy.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: T & M Satined Glass Precedence: bulk Well said -- T & M Stained Glass - http://www.stained-glass.com Future home of the Stained Glass Marketplace Visit soon, visit often. send inquiries to mailto:webmaster@stained-glass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 14:32:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uS98O-0001GOa; Fri, 7 Jun 96 14:31 PDT X-Path: nz1.netzone.com!lorley From: "Lorley L. Oneyear" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: cut/foil/tack? Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 14:40:01 -0600 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960607204001.006839d0@mail.netzone.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello all, Since we haven't had rain in over 80 days and our low temps are now in the 80's (highs of 110 degrees, pant pant )..I have moved my stained glass workshop into the spare bedroom. Ahhh, nice air conditioned comfort..Working on an 18" octagonal hummingbird hanging. I am foiling this piece and since I usually work w/ came I need my memory jogged on how to foil. I am cutting a piece (one at at time) and then grinding it and then foiling it. Should I tack solder these pieces as I go?? My retailer says to cut all pieces and then grind to fit all pieces and then foil. I am not comfortable w/ this method. If I do tack solder as I go will I have any problems a month from now when I get ready to officially solder the entire piece?? Thanks all.. beating the heat here in Phoenix.. Lorley ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 16:17:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSAmA-00016ta; Fri, 7 Jun 96 16:17 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: cut/foil/tack? Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 19:16:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun7.151649.0> References: <<2.2.32.19960607204001.006839d0@mail.netzone.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lorley L. Oneyear wrote: > > Hello all, Since we haven't had rain in over 80 days and our low temps are > now in the 80's (highs of 110 degrees, pant pant )..I have moved my stained > glass workshop into the spare bedroom. Ahhh, nice air conditioned > comfort..Working on an 18" octagonal hummingbird hanging. I am foiling this > piece and since I usually work w/ came I need my memory jogged on how to > foil. I am cutting a piece (one at at time) and then grinding it and then > foiling it. Should I tack solder these pieces as I go?? My retailer says to > cut all pieces and then grind to fit all pieces and then foil. I am not > comfortable w/ this method. If I do tack solder as I go will I have any > problems a month from now when I get ready to officially solder the entire > piece?? Thanks all.. beating the heat here in Phoenix.. Lorley > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Well, my method is to cut grind and foil as I go, I solder all at once if I can help it, except in one case where I had to tack as I go which (I think) burned out my iron. Also if you tack as you go it may be more difficult to solder over due to oxidation. The method I use also me re-cut a piece if it's necessary. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 22:06:12 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSG8e-0000y5a; Fri, 7 Jun 96 22:00 PDT X-Path: cetlink.net!karlp From: "KARL L. PREISACH" To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: Subscribe Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:32:04 -0400 Message-ID: <199606080434.AAA28440@moltar.cetlink.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I would like to subscribe to the news group concerning stained glass crafts. I am totally new at this, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Karl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 22:09:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSGEj-00014Ra; Fri, 7 Jun 96 22:06 PDT X-Path: odc.net!arowhead From: Robert Burmister To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: seeking advice Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 21:20:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun7.142052.0> References: <<199606072029.PAA08119@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Digital Odyssey Internet Services Precedence: bulk len alcamo wrote: > > I certainly enjoyed the bantering about (and the puns)over the lead/ foil > thing. Great fun! > > I would like to get some feedback on the proliferation of brass covered > came commercial windows that come factory installed in entry systems etc. > Has anyone been to a shop where they are made? or are they all produced by > our third world brothers and sisters? I've seen full lite entry doors with > decent bevel clusters and designs going for as little as 350 bucks, scary. > They have been well marketed and people are tuned into their "look". I've > done a few myself over the last couple of years mostly straight line > geometrics which was okay I recently completed a round top transom 6 feet > at the base over the top of a dual sidelite entry which included the afor > mentioned product. It was fairly tedious to construct, tight radius curves > and large central bevel cluster. I combined jig and hand bending, but found > that if you miss the curve a little the window grows big time on the layout > and you can't really hammer it home.So what I ended up doing was to precut > came section as exact as possible force it around the glass under tension, > nail it in and solder as you go. This along with the necessary pre-bending > helped the project move along. My biggest concern was that the thing was so > loaded up under tension that when it was time to flip it over the whole > panel was going to coil up like a big spring... which it didn't.Frankly, it > produced a really nice stiff panel that did not require cementing or bracing. > > I can't really say that I like the look though , featuring the matrix of > the window so that it matches the brass detail on some light fixture in the > hallway, I don't really buy it. I've tried to discourage it with my clients > but I'm getting more requests all the time and I'd rather not turn down the > work. > > Has this been an issue with other shops out there and how have you delt with > it, has it affected your business?have you made any of these type of > windows? Any ideas on how stear clients away from it? > > Thanks > > Len > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassLen, Have you tried brass crowned lead. It bends nearly as easily as lead but has real brass crown. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 22:14:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSGLr-0001Gia; Fri, 7 Jun 96 22:14 PDT X-Path: odc.net!arowhead From: Robert Burmister To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: cut/foil/tack? Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 21:28:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun7.142813.0> References: <<2.2.32.19960607204001.006839d0@mail.netzone.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Digital Odyssey Internet Services Precedence: bulk Lorley L. Oneyear wrote: > > Hello all, Since we haven't had rain in over 80 days and our low temps are > now in the 80's (highs of 110 degrees, pant pant )..I have moved my stained > glass workshop into the spare bedroom. Ahhh, nice air conditioned > comfort..Working on an 18" octagonal hummingbird hanging. I am foiling this > piece and since I usually work w/ came I need my memory jogged on how to > foil. I am cutting a piece (one at at time) and then grinding it and then > foiling it. Should I tack solder these pieces as I go?? My retailer says to > cut all pieces and then grind to fit all pieces and then foil. I am not > comfortable w/ this method. If I do tack solder as I go will I have any > problems a month from now when I get ready to officially solder the entire > piece?? Thanks all.. beating the heat here in Phoenix.. Lorley > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassLorley, I agree with your retailer that you should cut and grind all pieces first. Next, I like to lay out the pieces to see how they fit as a unit. Be sure to leave a little extra room for the foil. Once you have your project laid out and it all fits, hold it in place with push pins. Next, foil each piece one at a time and replace it in the project as you go. you may find things getting tighter as you add foiled pieces. If so, you may have to grind some of the remaining pieces in order to make it all fit. This is the way we do it in our studio and it works fine. Hope this helps. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 7 23:22:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSHPV-0000lAa; Fri, 7 Jun 96 23:22 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!vnunit1 From: vnunit1@ix.netcom.com (RICK D VAUGHN) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Seattle glass shops Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:21:59 -0700 Message-ID: <199606080621.XAA06857@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > > >Does any one know of any good glass supply shops in Seattle or in the > >Seattle area > >Donna, can you buy at wholesale from the distributors? If so, we show three of >'em on our list > > 1 Northwest Art Glass > 2 Rings & Things > 3 Big M Stained Glass > >although only Big M is in Seattle itself. If you're looking for retail shops, >large and small, our records show 28 of those, which I could email to you, if >you like. > __________________________________________ > Albert Lewis Executive Director > International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. > __________________________________________ > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Albert, Don't forget Spectrum Glass in Woodinville. A short jot from Seattle, it is close to Redmond (Home of Northwest Art Glass). Teresa Color It Glass! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 8 09:09:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSQXc-000028a; Sat, 8 Jun 96 09:07 PDT X-Path: execpc.com!kshawkey From: kshawkey@execpc.com (Curt & Karen Shawkey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: cut/foil/tack? Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 08:53:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199606081353.IAA10894@mail.execpc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Hello all, Since we haven't had rain in over 80 days and our low temps are >now in the 80's (highs of 110 degrees, pant pant ). Hi: Lorley L. Oneyear; Where are you from? Texas? Here in Wisconsin it has been raining for a week or so with temperatures in the 50's & 60's. Below normal. Can't mow the lawn its so wet. When we finally do get some decent weather it is going to be an awful job. As a result I have more time to spend in the basement with my hobby. Looks like you are getting some good advice. I have nothing new to add. I have been at this for about 5 years. I've only done copper foil. I should take a class sometime on lead. Currently I have been working on a tiffany style lampshade. Not a difficult one, but its a nice start. Good luck Karen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 8 09:10:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSQY1-00002Oa; Sat, 8 Jun 96 09:07 PDT X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: ssuter@intrastar.net (Shirley Suter) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: seeking advise Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 09:28:40 -0500 Message-ID: <31B98E18.6753@intrastar.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service - (409) 687-9067 Precedence: bulk > len alcamo wrote: > > > > I certainly enjoyed the bantering about (and the puns)over the lead/ foil > > thing. Great fun! > > > > I would like to get some feedback on the proliferation of brass covered > > came commercial windows that come factory installed in entry systems etc. > > Has anyone been to a shop where they are made? or are they all produced by > > our third world brothers and sisters? I've seen full lite entry doors with > > decent bevel clusters and designs going for as little as 350 bucks, scary. HI Len, Why, yes indeed, I have been to a shop where they are made. Houston Stained Glass Supply (you know..."the World's Largest Stained Glass Wholesaler"?) manufacturers doors, sidelights, and transoms right in back of their stained glass warehouse. I could be mistaken, but I THINK they even manufacturer their own bevels (very scary)!! They will happily sell to their wholesale customers, complete entries, individual components, blank doors (no glass, just a hole for glass) and even bevel clusters (WOW)! They will happily send to you a beautiful color brochure of their products. Give them a call at 1-800-766-2196. I agree with you that the "hassle factor" in producing this work is not worth it (unless you are REALLY HUNGRY). Working with brass came is just not my cup of tea (or mug of beer here in East Texas). Thus far, I've been pretty successful in convincing my customers to look toward being individual, and not necessarily purchase the same door that his neighbor may purchase tomorrow. Then I dangle some cobalt blue hammered and some red granite in front of them and mention the privacy factor, and they seem to come around to my way of thinking. GOOD LUCK!!!!! Shirley Suter Grapeland, Tx. My Grandmother's advise (not meant to be taken personally, just a witty quote from a colorful woman): "When you come upon a fork in the road, fear not. Take it! You never know when you will come upon a piece of pie." ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 8 11:38:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSSsh-00002Ga; Sat, 8 Jun 96 11:37 PDT X-Path: cetlink.net!karlp From: "KARL L. PREISACH" To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: Chandelier Fixtures Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:34:43 -0400 Message-ID: <199606081836.OAA09889@moltar.cetlink.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone know where I might obtain a catalog containing chandelier fixtures? I have built one so far, and I had to buy the fixtures locally at what I thought was an inflated price. I already have several catalogs from stained glass suppliers (such as Glass Crafters, Delphi, etc.), but allthey have are single globe type hardware. What I am looking for is three or four lamp fixtures for hanging shades. Thanks in advance! Karl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 8 14:40:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSVjw-0000CNa; Sat, 8 Jun 96 14:40 PDT X-Path: aol.com!GlasCrafts From: GlasCrafts@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Chandelier Fixtures Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 17:40:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun8.134012.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Karl, since you mentioned our catalog, we wanted to point out that we do sell components for multiple bulb lighting of shades. The parts are sold separately and need to be assembled and wired. Look on page 43 and you will see a solid brass 3-light cluster, 45 degree nozzles to position the sockets, and pull chain sockets. You will also need to "drop" the cluster from your crossbar with a 4-6" threaded rod. We also stock a 2-light "S" cluster for hanging shades. Give us a call and we'll get you set up. Jim Glass Crafters Stained Glass 1-800-422-4552 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 9 11:14:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSoyg-0000CGa; Sun, 9 Jun 96 11:12 PDT X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: [forward] cut/foil/tack? Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 12:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: References: <<9606091616.AA20616@info.cpcn.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: "Lorley L. Oneyear" > My retailer says to > cut all pieces and then grind to fit all pieces and then foil. I am not > comfortable w/ this method. If I do tack solder as I go will I have any > problems a month from now when I get ready to officially solder the entire > piece?? Hi Lorley! Yeah, what your retailer says is pretty standard procedure. If you are wanting to tack solder just do you can be sure your pieces are fitting properly, you might try double backed tape. The kind that is designed for mounting posters without marking walls holds your finshed pieces still while you are touching up the next. Yet, it is easy to move the pieces when you need to and doesn't rip the pattern. Try it and see if you feel a bit more comfortable. Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 9 14:41:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSsEB-0000DGa; Sun, 9 Jun 96 14:40 PDT X-Path: fast.net!charles From: charles@fast.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement-GRINDERS Date: Sun, 9 Jun 96 17:48 EDT Message-ID: References: <<1996Jun6.195437.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk We sell Inland Wizling grinders for about $49.00. A minium order of $100 is required (not including grinder)for that price. We sell first quality 60/40 solder as low as $3.50 (with $100 order). Many other prices below most wholesalers. Or visit our 40,000 square foot store/wharehouse WARNER-CRIVELLARO 1855 Weaversville Road Allentown PA 18103 800-523-4242 FAX 610-264-1010 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 9 16:46:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSuBP-0000Eya; Sun, 9 Jun 96 16:46 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: transoms? Date: 09 Jun 96 19:42:39 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun9.234239.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >If you run your reinforcement thru the entire vertical length of the >panel it will make it stronger. (By vertical length I mean from top to >bottom in a continuous manner, bending it inbetween the pieces) Well said. But it's also important that the reinforcement itself go into the frame or the surround, otherwise, the glass and so on are supporting the reinforcement, rather than the other way 'round. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 9 16:46:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSuBP-0000Fma; Sun, 9 Jun 96 16:46 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: semantics Date: 09 Jun 96 19:42:42 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun9.234242.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Personaly I like the term "Art Glass" as it tends to cover more of the >bases. What's funny is that "art glass" was a perjorative 100 years ago, a sneering name applied to the kind of stuff that was then being sold by Sears Roebuck. But times change and so does the language, obviously. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 9 21:37:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uSyif-0000Foa; Sun, 9 Jun 96 21:36 PDT X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: Elaine & Howard Rubin To: Matt McDonnell Subject: Re: Teaching Stained Glass - w or w/o suncatchers? Date: Sun, 09 Jun 96 21:35:25 -0500 Message-ID: <199606100436.VAA15041@desiree.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- This is Howard...If my students spent 10 years doing only suncatchers (s/c) and tried a shade, do you think they would have the skill needed? If my students spent 10 years at shade making, do you think they could do a s/c? Most attitudes on s/c is it is only that and loose interest quickly in DOING a good job. Ask most people who are beginners what their goal is, and lamps usually are the choice. Also, as they get better, or under my auspices and tutelage, they QUICKLY compare their work to the CRAP that is imported and find they are BETTER, could they do that with s/c? What an ego boost! Lastly, we all have our ways, and mine is shades. -- new construction 5-11-96... http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/hrubin.htm http://www.teleport.com/~weaver51 Elaine and Howard, mastering technology one byte at a time! E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 10 07:20:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uT7nC-0000zVa; Mon, 10 Jun 96 07:18 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Teaching Stained Glass - w or w/o suncatchers? Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:16:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun10.61650.0> References: <<199606100436.VAA15041@desiree.teleport.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote: > > -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > > This is Howard...If my students spent 10 years doing only suncatchers (s/c) > and tried a shade, do you think they would have the skill needed? > If my students spent 10 years at shade making, do you think they could do a > s/c? > Most attitudes on s/c is it is only that and loose interest quickly in DOING > a good job. > Ask most people who are beginners what their goal is, and lamps usually are > the choice. > Also, as they get better, or under my auspices and tutelage, they QUICKLY > compare their work to the CRAP that is imported and find they are BETTER, > could they do that with s/c? What an ego boost! > Lastly, we all have our ways, and mine is shades. > -- > new construction 5-11-96... http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/hrubin.htm > http://www.teleport.com/~weaver51 > Elaine and Howard, mastering technology one byte at a time! > E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass How ever if they did lamps for 10 years they wouldn't have any room for sun catchers.. ;) though you'd have to define sun catcher, some see it as a 5 piece flower, others see it as ant size pieces of glass with over 100 pieces. I'd personally start with a sun catcher and work my way up, but this is all dependent on how old the people are that your teaching. i remember when a teacher tried to teach how to make a simple panel lamp with crown, to kids that weren't all that experienced, but he was convinced that they could do it. needless to say they came out really bad, the crowns spiraled, every piece was a different shape, and angle. and basically wasted a lot of glass. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 10 07:35:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uT82l-0000Jva; Mon, 10 Jun 96 07:34 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: BACORA CEMENT??? Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:36:53 -0400 Message-ID: <9606101436.AA01545@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Wondering in anyone out there has heard of this Bacora cement...to be used in place of Inland??? Had a call from a guy says he does restorations on large public spaces and he was up in Princeton and they are using this Bacora (spelling may be wrong ) cement. Anyone out there here of this and what is the word? Thanks. pj friend ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 10 07:35:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uT82t-0000KIa; Mon, 10 Jun 96 07:34 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Glass Rods Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:37:02 -0400 Message-ID: <9606101437.AA01558@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I had a call last week from someone looking for glass rods. They are looking for true colors...as moretti rod red, is really a red orange until heated. Because they intend to use these rods without heating them they need true colors. Anyone out there know of someone who does this type of work? Also they need holes drilled in one end. Thanks all. pj friend ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 10 08:30:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uT7nC-0000zVa; Mon, 10 Jun 96 07:18 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Teaching Stained Glass - w or w/o suncatchers? Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:16:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun10.61650.0> References: <<199606100436.VAA15041@desiree.teleport.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote: > > -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > > This is Howard...If my students spent 10 years doing only suncatchers (s/c) > and tried a shade, do you think they would have the skill needed? > If my students spent 10 years at shade making, do you think they could do a > s/c? > Most attitudes on s/c is it is only that and loose interest quickly in DOING > a good job. > Ask most people who are beginners what their goal is, and lamps usually are > the choice. > Also, as they get better, or under my auspices and tutelage, they QUICKLY > compare their work to the CRAP that is imported and find they are BETTER, > could they do that with s/c? What an ego boost! > Lastly, we all have our ways, and mine is shades. > -- > new construction 5-11-96... http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/hrubin.htm > http://www.teleport.com/~weaver51 > Elaine and Howard, mastering technology one byte at a time! > E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass How ever if they did lamps for 10 years they wouldn't have any room for sun catchers.. ;) though you'd have to define sun catcher, some see it as a 5 piece flower, others see it as ant size pieces of glass with over 100 pieces. I'd personally start with a sun catcher and work my way up, but this is all dependent on how old the people are that your teaching. i remember when a teacher tried to teach how to make a simple panel lamp with crown, to kids that weren't all that experienced, but he was convinced that they could do it. needless to say they came out really bad, the crowns spiraled, every piece was a different shape, and angle. and basically wasted a lot of glass. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 10 08:31:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uT82l-0000Jva; Mon, 10 Jun 96 07:34 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: BACORA CEMENT??? Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:36:53 -0400 Message-ID: <9606101436.AA01545@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Wondering in anyone out there has heard of this Bacora cement...to be used in place of Inland??? Had a call from a guy says he does restorations on large public spaces and he was up in Princeton and they are using this Bacora (spelling may be wrong ) cement. Anyone out there here of this and what is the word? Thanks. pj friend ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 10 08:55:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uT82t-0000KIa; Mon, 10 Jun 96 07:34 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Glass Rods Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:37:02 -0400 Message-ID: <9606101437.AA01558@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I had a call last week from someone looking for glass rods. They are looking for true colors...as moretti rod red, is really a red orange until heated. Because they intend to use these rods without heating them they need true colors. Anyone out there know of someone who does this type of work? Also they need holes drilled in one end. Thanks all. pj friend ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 10 09:08:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uT9V0-0000Ifa; Mon, 10 Jun 96 09:07 PDT X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Statement-GRINDERS Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:07:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun10.8728.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Many other prices below most wholesalers. >Or visit our 40,000 square foot store/wharehouse >WARNER-CRIVELLARO Is Warner on line now, or are you sending this as a personal message? If on line, do you have a home page? I always enjoy visiting your store, except sometimes on Saturday when there are sooooo many people. Nice to be popular though huh? Janet Farrington IMN2GLASS@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 10 09:14:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uT9aN-0000LLa; Mon, 10 Jun 96 09:12 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: cut/foil/tack? Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199606101612.MAA04566@brutus.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 02:40 PM 6/7/96 -0600, you wrote: >Hello all, Since we haven't had rain in over 80 days and our low temps are >now in the 80's (highs of 110 degrees, pant pant )..I have moved my stained >glass workshop into the spare bedroom. Ahhh, nice air conditioned >comfort..Working on an 18" octagonal hummingbird hanging. I am foiling this >piece and since I usually work w/ came I need my memory jogged on how to >foil. I am cutting a piece (one at at time) and then grinding it and then >foiling it. Should I tack solder these pieces as I go?? My retailer says to >cut all pieces and then grind to fit all pieces and then foil. I am not >comfortable w/ this method. If I do tack solder as I go will I have any >problems a month from now when I get ready to officially solder the entire >piece?? Thanks all.. beating the heat here in Phoenix.. Lorley I grind, then foil, then solder. And my reason for doing each step separately is that if my panel has tendency to grow, I can adjust while foiling, the BACKGROUND pieces, instead of doing all the adjusting on the last pieces cut. I foil my foreground pieces first, and then if it is too tight I grind a little more on background. That way, I don't lose any important pieces. Joyce Moran Garden of Glass joyce@bright.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 10 09:32:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uT9t6-0000DSa; Mon, 10 Jun 96 09:32 PDT X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: ssuter@intrastar.net (Shirley Suter) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Rods Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:27:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Jun10.62723.0> References: <<9606101437.AA01558@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service - (409) 687-9067 Precedence: bulk pj friend wrote: > > I had a call last week from someone looking for glass rods. They are > looking for true colors...as moretti rod red, is really a red orange until > heated. Because they intend to use these rods without heating them they > need true colors. Anyone out there know of someone who does this type of > work? Also they need holes drilled in one end. > > Thanks all. > pj friend Hi PJ! A while back, I, too, needed glass rods. I found a place in Houston that carried clear ones in stock in several diameters: Scientific Glass & Instruments, Inc. (713)682-1481 or 1 (800) 899-2137 Talk to Doug Muller...cool dude and they do all sorts of custom glass manufacturing. I hope this helps! Shirley Suter Grapeland, Tx. where it is FINALLY raining!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 10 22:26:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uTLx3-0000Kpa; Mon, 10 Jun 96 22:25 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!vnunit1 From: vnunit1@ix.netcom.com (RICK D VAUGHN) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: [forward] cut/foil/tack? Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 22:24:58 -0700 Message-ID: <199606110524.WAA15015@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: >> From: "Lorley L. Oneyear" >> My retailer says to cut all pieces and then grind to fit all pieces and then foil. I am not comfortable w/ this method. If I do tack solder as I go will I have any problems a month from now when I get ready to officially solder the entire piece?? >> Lorley, We have really good luck with a piece of either drywall or ceiling tile and pushpins. I try to cut, grind to fit-using the pins to hold the pieces in place-and then solder. This way I don't have alot of flux and solder sitting on the piece oxidizing while I am fitting the other pieces. I have found that it also allows me to correct for mis-cuts or variations from the line on the pattern alot more easily! Good Luck! Teresa Color It Glass! e-mail vnunit1@ix.netcom.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 11 16:58:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uTdJV-0000Ita; Tue, 11 Jun 96 16:57 PDT X-Path: monmouth.com!clambert From: C Lambert To: "'steamy'" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:48:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun11.15482.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Please respond upon receipt problem with farfignuggin email CRZKT ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 11 17:28:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uTdmx-0000EWa; Tue, 11 Jun 96 17:27 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:27:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun11.162736.0> References: <<1996Jun11.15482.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk C Lambert wrote: > > Please respond upon receipt problem with farfignuggin email > CRZKT > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass this is to c lambert, i got this message i'm not sure exactly what it means, but the TO address was to: "steamy" instead of bungi.com ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 12 05:37:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uTpAo-0000Cya; Wed, 12 Jun 96 05:37 PDT X-Path: ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu!elgarber From: elgarber@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu (Ellen Garber) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 07:37:17 -0500 Message-ID: <9606121237.AA34529@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk please subscribe elgarber@falcon.cc.ukans.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 12 06:19:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uTpoU-0000Jza; Wed, 12 Jun 96 06:18 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Glsslizard From: Glsslizard@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lets Liven Things Up!!!! Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:18:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun12.51824.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Here's my intro......I've been doing glass about 3 or 4 years. I have just recently finished a small lamp, and am currently working on a small panel of a lizard (Glass lizard - get it?) I haven't had much time this last year to work on my glass, but I'm vowing to make time this summer. I've dabbled in just about everything - suncatchers, panels, lamps, boxes, candleholders, Christmas ornaments, and I have a million ideas in my head. Most of my stuff is small, because my workbench area is small. I only use copper foil - I've never tried lead came. And most of my stuff is presents for my friends and family. I've only sold one piece to a co-worker. But I love it! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 12 13:50:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uTwrb-0000Dja; Wed, 12 Jun 96 13:50 PDT X-Path: interserv.com!ebsousa From: ebsousa@interserv.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: dream workshop Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 13:49:35 -0700 Message-ID: <199606122049.AA06233@relay.interserv.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk To Glass Lizard, Welcome to the group. I can relate to the small work area problem. My "studio" is a 5x7 mudroom that I only recently insulated and added heat to.( try cutting glass that is about 40 degrees F if you want a real experience in frustration.) This weekend I was working on a lamp and on my 3 foot work bench I had my lamp form, pieces I was recutting, soldering Iron, and grinder and copper foil. I didn't even have room to put down my tools. While making plans to expand my work surface to 7 feet, I got to wondering how I would design my "dream workshop" if money and space were not an obstacle ( like that will ever happen in my life time!!) I thought that a 10' x 10' room would be good for starters. with 2 4'x8' work benches in an L arrangement, so that I could cut and grind on one then just turn to assemble and solder the pieces. I would also have a big sink for cleaning the pieces right there so I wouldn't have to carry them thru the house to wash them in the bathroom sink. And of course lots of big windows!!! So anybody else out there want to share their dream workshop plans? Donna S. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 12 15:14:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uTyAn-0000Lba; Wed, 12 Jun 96 15:13 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: dream workshop Date: 12 Jun 96 18:07:27 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun12.22727.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >So anybody else out there want to share their dream workshop plans? Well, I'll tell you how I built my studio a few years ago: I framed up for a 20'x 40' concrete slab in the back yard and had the local concrete delivery service bring their truck with enough for the job. When I'd shoveled it around and smoothed it, I pushed those steel fencepost brackets into the soft concrete every 8 feet. When the concrete had set I merely built a fence all the way around the slab, creating a double door with two of the 8-footers, setting that section of fence on big hinges. The fence (now an enclosing wall) on one long side of the rectangle had been cut 10" lower than on the other side, so when I threw rafters across, there was a natural pitch to the roof, which I covered with corrugated fiberglass roofing. Since I'd built the fence like a board- and-batten setup, but left out the battens (this was California), the breezes could float through. Powered two small glass furnaces off the house meter with a propane bleed; house power. Very cheap to run; less than $100/month. Time to build? 3-4 days. Cost? $400. (in 1971) __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 12 15:55:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uTyoe-0000Era; Wed, 12 Jun 96 15:55 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: dream workshop Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:54:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun12.145442.0> References: <<199606122049.AA06233@relay.interserv.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ebsousa@interserv.com wrote: > > To Glass Lizard, > Welcome to the group. I can relate to the small work area problem. My > "studio" is a 5x7 mudroom that I only recently insulated and added heat to.( try > cutting glass that is about 40 degrees F if you want a real experience in > frustration.) This weekend I was working on a lamp and on my 3 foot work bench I > had my lamp form, pieces I was recutting, soldering Iron, and grinder and copper > foil. I didn't even have room to put down my tools. While making plans to expand > my work surface to 7 feet, I got to wondering how I would design my "dream > workshop" if money and space were not an obstacle ( like that will ever happen > in my life time!!) I thought that a 10' x 10' room would be good for starters. > with 2 4'x8' work benches in an L arrangement, so that I could cut and grind on > one then just turn to assemble and solder the pieces. I would also have a big > sink for cleaning the pieces right there so I wouldn't have to carry them thru > the house to wash them in the bathroom sink. And of course lots of big > windows!!! So anybody else out there want to share their dream workshop plans? > Donna S. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i would like to have more room my self, currently i have a 3'x8' bench (the main bench) with cabinets underneath, one of them has my scrap box, and next to it has 16x20's. underneath the cabinets are smaller boxes to sort out scrap colors. behind the unit there are about dozen milk crates that holds my glass, 8x12, 12x12, 12x16, etc., including larger scrap. on another wall i have to benches against an outer corner wall. besides holding more glass, on top is all my saws, grinders, etc. and on the oil tank i have another glass cabinet that holds 20x20's etc. If I had more space, I would like to have a built in sink, a table sink (the kind you can easily wash a panel in). I'd like to have a dedicated table with some kind of built in reservoir to catch spilled water from the grinders. And of course all the bigger equipment too, beveling machines, sandblasting unit, large electronic based kiln, a foundry area, etc. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 12 16:04:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uTywn-0000L3a; Wed, 12 Jun 96 16:03 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: dream workshop Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 17:57:00 -0500 Message-ID: <199606122257.RAA15077@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Ah! dream workshop.... mine would have glass bins capable of holding 10,000 sq. ft. of glass...ALL FULL!! Back to reality.... Iwould suggest that your shop, no matter what size, have all the work tables fitted with ajustable lockable casters so that the space can be configured to meet the needs of the project at hand, smaller tables can be pushed together when needed for larger pieces, tables can be moved aside when floor space needs to be used for handling larger materials etc. etc. It really helps! Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 12 20:48:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uU3Nb-0000PTa; Wed, 12 Jun 96 20:47 PDT X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: ssuter@intrastar.net (Shirley Suter) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dream Workshop Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 22:42:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Jun12.174220.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service - (409) 687-9067 Precedence: bulk It sure is funny how life will treat you. Just today, I was in my studio filling an order for a gift shop. While I was cutting what seemed to be mile after mile of glass, I started thinking what the perfect studio setup would be like. Then I came into the computer room and checked my e-mail and low-and-behold, others are thinking about the same thing!! Must be the moon!!! I must admit, you guys have humbled me. I never knew that I already have the perfect setup....minus the 10,000 sq.ft. of glass. Until this evening, I was not aware that others were dreaming of being as fortunate as me (and I am ashamed of me). We live in a 125 year old farmhouse on 6 acres. We have no neighbors, just lots of cows and virgin woods to surround us. My studio is a 14 x 14 room (supposed to be a guest room) with its own walk-in closet lined with shelves for my foil, spools of solder, extra supplies and all of my larger patterns from projects gone by. I also have my own separate private bathroom with a long counter, 2 sinks, a potty and a bathtub for washing larger panels. There are ceiling to floor windows on one wall and two smaller windows on another. I do have the L shape benches (made of two 8 ft. banquet tables covered with plywood. I also have another banquet table in the middle of the room that I use for design work, bookkeeping, doodling, and a great place to serve coffee to clients and go over pattern requirements. When I need to assemble a large panel, I have 2 sheets of sheetrock to put on this table to make a much larger surface. I also have a glass bin that my husband built that is capable of holding that 10,000 sq. ft. of glass if I can ever afford to completely fill it. The only drawback to the bin is that it has no place to hold the full sheets of glass I purchase at the wholesaler. These just lean against the side of the bin (the clear textures live behind the door). I even have a section of smooth wall for using my projector to enlarge patterns. All this and central heat and air...72* year round. Lucky, huh?!? Next time I feel sorry for myself for not having the perfect studio, I swear I will pack up and move into a closet. I didn't know how fortunate I was until I read many of your letters. Thanks, ya'll!!! Shirley Suter Grapeland, Tx. My Grandmother's Advise: Never travel without bar-b-que sauce....you may find yourself having to eat crow. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 12 21:09:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uU3gt-0000H7a; Wed, 12 Jun 96 21:07 PDT X-Path: pop01.ny.us.ibm.net!steel00 From: Steven Steele To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: dream workshop Date: Wed, 12 Jun 96 22:57:36 PDT Message-ID: <1996Jun13.55736.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Space would be wonderful... airconditioning would be even better... here in west TX the summers are kind of toasty. Since space is always a prob, I found that my Crafstsman workbench deep drawer just fits the grinder (works for 99% of the glass sizes I use). Then I got rid of all the other nonglass related tools and have some organized storage for tools and glass. Is there ever enough space for glass? I'm very new to glass but have found it to be a consuming hobby. When I first started it was the most intense thing I had ever done with my clothes on... now I don't use the qualifier to describe the experience. Back to the ideal shop, a huge sink would be nice. I've found that large folding tables (industrial strength) make great work surfaces and then fold out of the way if you want to do something mundane like park a car in the shop area. Steven ------------------------------------- E-mail: steel00@ibm.net 06/12/96 22:57:36 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 12 21:24:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uU3wE-0000E6a; Wed, 12 Jun 96 21:23 PDT X-Path: juno.com!diamonds From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: dream workshop Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 22:17:12 PST Message-ID: <1996Jun13.61712.0> References: <<199606122049.AA06233@relay.interserv.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm in a fix like you except I share the garage with my husband and his wood working. Which I benefit from too. I'd like more bench area with little to no tools laying around. More lighting, better hanging wall space(storage), larger wall mounted glass storage bins, a sink, a larger (comercial) magnifying glass light and a seperate area for drawing up designs( where I could leave them laying out and not be bothered with my cats). A good cabinnet and wall storage for my patterns would be nice too. An album area for storing photos of my stained glass projects completed would be nice too. Why I'm at it I might as well add some more money to buy all the lamp forms, patterns and extra glass I'd like to have on hand too. Oh if I only could turn those dreams into reality!!!!!!! Thanks, Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 13 04:51:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUAux-0000Jya; Thu, 13 Jun 96 04:50 PDT X-Path: spdc.ti.com!mack From: mack@spdc.ti.com (Caren Mack) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Dream shop... Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 06:49:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <9606131149.AA01112@epcot.spdc.ti.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dream shop... Well, I'm close to finishing my workshop, which isn't the dream I really wish I had, but it works very well and I really like it. I had a 8x10 Morgan building which I was using for the usual storage that I moved everything out of and I converted into a small shop or studio. So when does a shop become a studio??? Anyway... I put R13 insulation in the ceiling and walls and covered it using 1"x6"x6' cedar fencing. I wanted a rustic look and originally wanted old barn wood, but couldn't find any and settled for the new rustic cedar. I then bought 2 ft wide doors to use as a table top the 8 ft length of the building. This is the hallow doors and cost only $15 a piece. I installed them so I can replace it easily, yet its sturdy. There are shelves underneath and my glass bins, 8 for 12"x 12" and 2 for about 2'x 2'. On the other 8ft wall I have a commercial drafting table I found at a garage sale last fall, a small bar refrig and a small T.V. Hey, whats wrong with a DrPepper and a little noise! I put the self adhesive 12" square tile on the floor which is really nice for clean-up. When I installed the table top, starting from left to right, I built-in my light box, then in-set my grinder to table top level leaving the rest as my work table. The drafting table will lay flat to 3 ft wide and can use this if needed. In the ceiling I have a 6ft double flourecant light and a 1 or2 ft flourecant on the shelf above the table top. A few custome touches here and there, and even though it may sound small, it really has plenty of space, its comfortable and it's dedicated to my glass. What now remains is to build a screen door and install an air conditioner, which is really needed in this TX heat. I've been putting this off dreading have to cut the metal, but just realized this week my reluctance to get out there because of the misquitos and the heat, so I need to get these two things done! The building is under trees, so when I get off work in the morning, its nice and cool till noon and in the shade. I was really surprised how the insulation keeps the overnight cool temp in the building longer when its hot outside. This will really help the air conditioner use of electricity. I thought about trading-in this building for a 10'x16' Morgan building which "really" would have been nice. But I opted to spend the additional money I would have spent on the larger building on an air conditioner, supplies and equipment. I enjoy reading all about your dream shops, ideas, tips and just anything glass. So keep them coming! -= Caren =- mack@spdc.ti.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 13 05:32:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUBYZ-0000D9a; Thu, 13 Jun 96 05:31 PDT X-Path: stained-glass.com!webmaster From: Matt McDonnell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dream Workshop Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:31:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun13.43116.0> References: <<1996Jun12.174220.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: T & M Satined Glass Precedence: bulk Shirley, I think I can speak for most of us when I say that I am jealous. We just had a baby which makes the house seem even smaller. Our studio is now portable: somtimes in the dining room, sometimes in the basement, sometimes in the garage. Matt McDonnell -- T & M Stained Glass - http://www.stained-glass.com Future home of the Stained Glass Marketplace Visit soon, visit often. send inquiries to mailto:webmaster@stained-glass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 13 05:57:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUBwe-0000JWa; Thu, 13 Jun 96 05:56 PDT X-Path: aristotle.net!rwsmith From: Rebecca Smith To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Oh Dreams Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:05:37 -0500 Message-ID: <2.2.16.19960613065742.24573362@aristotle.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all: The Dream Studio/Work space sent me off into a fantasy world. I work on a card table. That is the most space I can get. We live in a 130 year old house that is one of the 3 oldest houses in the city. I am smack dab downtown. Our lot measures 47 1/2 feet by 75 feet. In the front we are 7 feet from the sidewalk, east- 1/2 foot from the property line, west- 5 feet from the alley, and back 25 by 75 which is where we park the car. We also have National Register and local preservation guide lines to follow and or abide by. No space to build a seperate building or add a room, so the card table in the dinning room is as close as I will ever get. I cut larger pieces on the floor. Ya'll keep dreaming so I can float off into that wonderful dream world of yours. Rebecca Smith (rwsmith@aristotle.net) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 13 06:38:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUCb6-0000Jma; Thu, 13 Jun 96 06:38 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dream Workshop Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 09:37:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun13.53738.0> References: <<1996Jun12.174220.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Shirley Suter wrote: > > It sure is funny how life will treat you. Just today, I was in my studio > filling an order for a gift shop. While I was cutting what seemed to be > mile after mile of glass, I started thinking what the perfect studio > setup would be like. Then I came into the computer room and checked my > e-mail and low-and-behold, others are thinking about the same thing!! > Must be the moon!!! > > I must admit, you guys have humbled me. I never knew that I already have > the perfect setup....minus the 10,000 sq.ft. of glass. Until this > evening, I was not aware that others were dreaming of being as fortunate > as me (and I am ashamed of me). > > We live in a 125 year old farmhouse on 6 acres. We have no neighbors, > just lots of cows and virgin woods to surround us. My studio is a 14 x > 14 room (supposed to be a guest room) with its own walk-in closet lined > with shelves for my foil, spools of solder, extra supplies and all of my > larger patterns from projects gone by. I also have my own separate > private bathroom with a long counter, 2 sinks, a potty and a bathtub for > washing larger panels. There are ceiling to floor windows on one wall > and two smaller windows on another. I do have the L shape benches (made > of two 8 ft. banquet tables covered with plywood. I also have another > banquet table in the middle of the room that I use for design work, > bookkeeping, doodling, and a great place to serve coffee to clients and > go over pattern requirements. When I need to assemble a large panel, I > have 2 sheets of sheetrock to put on this table to make a much larger > surface. I also have a glass bin that my husband built that is capable > of holding that 10,000 sq. ft. of glass if I can ever afford to > completely fill it. The only drawback to the bin is that it has no place > to hold the full sheets of glass I purchase at the wholesaler. These > just lean against the side of the bin (the clear textures live behind the > door). I even have a section of smooth wall for using my projector to > enlarge patterns. All this and central heat and air...72* year round. > Lucky, huh?!? > > Next time I feel sorry for myself for not having the perfect studio, I > swear I will pack up and move into a closet. I didn't know how fortunate > I was until I read many of your letters. Thanks, ya'll!!! > > Shirley Suter > Grapeland, Tx. > > My Grandmother's Advise: Never travel without bar-b-que sauce....you > may find yourself having to eat crow. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass For you glass storage situation, you should build a glass rack on one wall, or under those two tables you mentioned. Your lucky too have that amount of space. My space is similar, etc., it's an odd shape and half of it is filled up with my tools ... and knowing me, i'd probably fill that space up in know time. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 13 06:47:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUCjx-0000HPa; Thu, 13 Jun 96 06:47 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Oh Dreams Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 09:46:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun13.54649.0> References: <<2.2.16.19960613065742.24573362@aristotle.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Rebecca Smith wrote: > > Hi all: > The Dream Studio/Work space sent me off into a fantasy world. I work on a > card table. That is the most space I can get. We live in a 130 year old > house that is one of the 3 oldest houses in the city. I am smack dab > downtown. Our lot measures 47 1/2 feet by 75 feet. In the front we are 7 > feet from the sidewalk, east- 1/2 foot from the property line, west- 5 feet > from the alley, and back 25 by 75 which is where we park the car. We also > have National Register and local preservation guide lines to follow and or > abide by. No space to build a seperate building or add a room, so the card > table in the dinning room is as close as I will ever get. I cut larger > pieces on the floor. Ya'll keep dreaming so I can float off into that > wonderful dream world of yours. > > Rebecca Smith (rwsmith@aristotle.net) > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass do you have any attic space, or maybe a basement, too work in? ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 13 13:16:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUIo8-0000Q4a; Thu, 13 Jun 96 13:15 PDT X-Path: gnn.com!PhillRoey From: PhillRoey@gnn.com (Phillip Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: mosiac garden stones Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:14:04 Message-ID: <199606132015.QAA00615@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi! Thanks to everyone who gave me advice and suggestions for making mosiac garden stones. I did my first stone using a plastic bucket for a mold. (The kind from a warehouse store that we buy laundry detergent in.) I put the glass on clear contact paper and set this in the bottom of the greased bucket and used Quick set Quickrete. I was really pleased with the results. The only problem was that we noticed afterwards that the bucket was warped, so the stone wasn't perfectly flat across the top, but I'm not sure anyone else would notice. As we live on two acres, I have plenty of places to put the imperfections until I get this down. I'd like to practice some more and than make some as gifts. Thanks again!!! I got some really good ideas from the group. -Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 13 17:36:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUMrD-0000Uha; Thu, 13 Jun 96 17:35 PDT X-Path: interserv.com!ebsousa From: ebsousa@interserv.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Workshop Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:34:55 -0700 Message-ID: <199606140034.AA13030@relay.interserv.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Caren, I like your idea of having the grinder set in the work surface but how do you clean it? Does it pop out easily? I can't quite picture how it would work. Donna S. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 14 03:17:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUVwW-0000GUa; Fri, 14 Jun 96 03:17 PDT X-Path: spdc.ti.com!mack From: mack@spdc.ti.com (Caren Mack) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Workshop Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 05:16:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <9606141016.AA11646@epcot.spdc.ti.com> References: <<199606140034.AA13030@relay.interserv.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Caren, > I like your idea of having the grinder set in the work surface but how > do you clean it? Does it pop out easily? I can't quite picture how it would > work. > Donna S. Hi Donna, The grinder is setting technically on a shelf below the table top with sides, setting the grinder table level with the table top. The space is wide enough to lift the grinder in and out, or move it back so I can get to the built-in drawer. For cleaning I pull it straight up and have a lid to a plastic shoe box used as a tray under it to catch any water that drips out of the grinder. For some reason my grinder has started losing water. I've lined the bottom and sides of the inset with formica for water protection. I haven't done this yet, but the counter top space around the grinder will have a piece of plywood with formica on the top with a whole the shape of the ginder. I think I'll try dowels in the four corners as pins to hold it in place, yet giving me easy access. For a shield, I used the plastic shoe box, cutting out one of the long sides and set it on that side, giving me protection from the back, top and sides. When not is use, I lay it flat so it covers and keeps dust off the grinder. This is just what I came up with and I'm sure there are better ways to set this type of thing up, but it works for me. Caren ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 14 04:34:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUX8c-0000SKa; Fri, 14 Jun 96 04:34 PDT X-Path: prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Workshop Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 07:23:26, -0500 Message-ID: <199606141123.HAA18818@mime2.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Caren- I like this idea of yours, too. Very clever! > For some reason my grinder has started losing water.... If it has a rubber plug in the drain hole, have you already tried replacing that? Sometimes they don't seal as well when they get older. > top space around the grinder will have a piece of plywood with formica on > the top with a whole the shape of the ginder. I used a large scrap of no wax vinyl floor covering under mine. Works great, can be glued down if necessary, and can be cut to shape with scissors. (I'm not much of a woodworker. If you are, just ignore this :-) ) Thanks for sharing your ideas. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 14 05:38:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUY8f-0000R8a; Fri, 14 Jun 96 05:38 PDT X-Path: YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu!UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Workshop Date: Fri, 14 Jun 96 08:32:17 EDT Message-ID: <960614.083727.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<9606141016.AA11646@epcot.spdc.ti.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk If your grinder is leaking, you may just want to lift it up a bit so it doesn't sit in a puddle. I'm a little leary about letting anything electrical set in water. Someday, you'll get a short or a shock. My grinder is up on a couple of long wood blocks (just scraps) over a tiled surface. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 14 06:25:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUYrq-0000E4a; Fri, 14 Jun 96 06:24 PDT X-Path: execpc.com!kshawkey From: kshawkey@execpc.com (Curt & Karen Shawkey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Workshop Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 08:24:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199606141324.IAA04502@mail.execpc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >My grinder is up on a couple of long wood blocks (just scraps) over a >tiled surface. I have my grinder sitting on one of those plastic grided ceiling light covers similar to the morton cutting surface. With that there is no chance of the grinder sitting in water. I am enjoying all the wonderful ideas that every one has here. Karen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 14 18:07:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUjpI-00001va; Fri, 14 Jun 96 18:06 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: BlindCopyReceiver:;@compuserve,.com Subject: IGGA NEWS MEMO! 06/14/96 Date: 14 Jun 96 21:01:50 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun15.1150.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ----------------------------------------------------------------- IGGA Online News Memo! June 14, 1996 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Random glass info passed along after being compiled by the International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. a 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization ----------------------------------------------------------------- GlassWeekend '97 at Wheaton Village This is THE weekend at Wheaton Village! An international symposium and exhibition of contemporary glass opened yesterday and runs through Sunday, June 15th. If you hadn't already planned to make the trip, this is your chance to change your plans. Wheaton Village is at 1501 Glasstown Road, Millville, NJ 08332. Call (609) 825-6800 ext. 2733. ----------------------------------------------------------------- OSHA Inspectors Focus on Schools A member of the Guild, Susan N. Goodwin, who teaches glass techniques at Woodstock Academy in Woodstock, Connecticut, contacted us the other day, saying: "Just a quick note about a problem we, as an art department are facing. OSHA says we must shut down our glass program unless we use non-leaded solder. I tried it -- *lousy results. Are there any irons or fluxes available for use with non-leaded solder? Any advice would be appreciated." We immediately routed her concerns to Monona Rossol, an industrial hygienist with Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety (ACTS) and a member of IGGA's board. She responded, "Actually, OSHA doesn't say that you must use lead-free or shut down. It says that you must follow the OSHA Lead Standard (29 CFR 1910.1025) if you continue to use lead in any way that causes workers to be exposed. To meet this standard, your school first would have to pay for personal air-monitoring during soldering to establish your exposure. If these tests show that airborne lead is over the action level, they would have to provide many precautions, including isolation of the studio, showers and changing rooms for people to use before they left, regular blood lead tests, and more. Even if the test shows you are not exposed to lead over the action level, they would have to provide special training, cleanup procedures that insure people are not taking home lead dust on their clothes and shoes, isolation of lead areas, etc. "If your administrators are not dummies, they also know that the direct liability relationship they have with the students could leave them open to lawsuits. For example, if a student were pregnant and she or the baby (newly delivered infants' cord blood is routinely monitored for lead in many states) were high or if any individual student turned up with a high lead count -- for whatever reason -- there could be an action. "I only know of one stained glass studio in the country (I pray there are others) and not one school (except those that are lead-free) that meets the OSHA regulations. "Most stained glass businesses and schools are breaking the law. It is a problem I repeatedly explain to stained glass people and somehow it just doesn't sink in: the entire industry MUST change to lead-free or spend the money to do all the lead testing, recordkeeping, and precautions. Only self-employed individuals or hobbyists doing their own work ALONE in their own studios do not come under OSHA regulations and could continue to work the way we are used to seeing. Students also do not come under OSHA, but they can sue their teacher's socks off. "[As far as a good lead-free solder goes,] I have been talking to Johnson Metals, who have reportedly developed a really good lead-free solder, but I can't get them to provide information so I can let artists know. It is likely that the electronics industry is taking ALL their production at this time and they can't make other commitments. "Before switching fluxes and irons, why not try some other lead solders? There are some out there that people are using with success. Which one did you try? Maybe I can give you the names of other companies from whom you can get samples and see if they work better. I also just wrote a review of came for a magazine whose editor says that it's a lead-free came people use and like." We said that we were surprised to hear that OSHA is even around, as deeply as their funding has been cut!" to which Monona replied, "Their cut funding had caused them to decide they can only concentrate on the really "serious" hazards. Accordingly, OSHA announced it will step up enforcement of certain rules this year, two of which are the Standards for silica and lead. [See following story.] "I know this seems hard, but it could be a blessing for you and your students to learn how to use the lead-free solders successfully. They will probably always be harder to handle than lead ones. Anything I can do to help, I certainly will." ----------------------------------------------------------------- ACTS lists schools targeted by OSHA Schools across the U.S. were recently visited by OSHA and slapped with fines for violations on a wide variety of counts, according to ACTS FACTS. These are the ten largest fines: Marist College (NY) was fined $43,650.; New Mexico State University (NM), $41,500.; University of the Ozarks (AR), $24,500.; Mount Saint Mary College (NY), $20,700., Upsala College (NJ), $19,600., Stevens Institute of Technology (NJ), $19,150., Boston University (MA), $18,925., Wayne State University (MI), $18,455., College of Wooster (OH), $18,375., and Elizabeth City State College (NC), $16,500. While many of the fines were later reduced on appeal, others were increased. A more complete description of the violations found and corrected appears in the June 1996 issue, which notes, "OSHA reduces fines greatly if the school shows a good faith effort to correct the problems quickly; full fines are usually required only when violations are not abated." If you'd like info like this on a regular basis, the monthly newsletter is $15/year in the U.S. ($2 more in Canada & Mexico; $6 more elsewhere) from ACTS FACTS, 181 Thompson St., #23, New York, NY 10012. ================================================================= Do you like receiving this online news memo? Don't do anything; we'll send it to you whenever we get around to it, which might be fairly often. Or not. It depends on how busy the Exec. Dir., Albert Lewis, might be that day or week. You don't like it? If this is addressed to you DIRECTLY, simply reply to 70544.3642@compuserve.com saying UNSUBSCRIBE in the text of your message. If you receive it via a NEWSGROUP with a glass focus, you'll have to UNSUBSCRIBE from the newsgroup, alas. If you're receiving TWO copies, that's because you get it direct at your email address AND via the NEWSGROUP. Let us know in a note to 70544.3642@compuserve.com and we'll set the program to eliminate the duplicate copy. ================================================================= Our Mission: To facilitate communication among glass artists, to encourage education and promote excellence in the glass arts. __________________________________________ International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Tonetta Lake Road *** Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 __________________________________________ Membership info: 70544.3642@compuserve.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 14 22:14:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUnfU-0000Xja; Fri, 14 Jun 96 22:13 PDT X-Path: sagelink.com!pkelly From: Patrick E Kelly To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: where is everybody? Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 00:18:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun14.17188.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5A50.24DA7240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here I am. I am relatively new at both stained glass and the internet. I live in Central Texas. Where are you? ---------- From: Marissa Toghyani[SMTP:marissat@atlas.na.informix.com] Sent: Monday, June 03, 1996 12:31 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: where is everybody? is the server down? I'm not getting any glass email & I miss it. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5A50.24DA7240 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig4HAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD0AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AU01UUABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAAAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4A ATABAAAAEgAAACdnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAVAAAAU01UUDpHTEFTU0BCVU5H SS5DT00AAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAN8KwEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5N aWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAYAAAAUkU6IHdoZXJlIGlzIGV2ZXJ5Ym9keT8AQAgB BYADAA4AAADMBwYADwAAABIACAAGAAgBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcGAA8AAAAQAAsABgAJAQEJgAEAIQAA ADA4Njg3MEZDNDJDNkNGMTFBREM2NDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAPAGAQOQBgDwAwAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAA AwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AICk2c2KWrsBHgBwAAEAAAAYAAAAUkU6IHdoZXJl IGlzIGV2ZXJ5Ym9keT8AAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbtais3Z/HBoCcZCEc+txkRFU1QAAAAAHgAeDAEA AAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABQAAABwa2VsbHlAc2FnZWxpbmsuY29tAAMABhCIDSlVAwAH EKEBAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABIRVJFSUFNSUFNUkVMQVRJVkVMWU5FV0FUQk9USFNUQUlORURHTEFT U0FORFRIRUlOVEVSTkVUSUxJVkVJTkNFTlRSQUxURVhBU1dIRVJFQVJFWU9VPy0tLS0tLS0tLS1G Uk9NAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAdgIAAHICAACMBAAATFpGdaCvnhf/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNo CsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAIzwnZO/EWDzI1NQKACoEN sQtg4G5nMTAzFFALChRRJQvyYwBAIEgEkGUgoEkgYW0uGzMgFhARC2B0aXYcAHkgbosH0RwgIAbg dGggE8DzC3EJgCBnC2AEEQBwHcB/HTAbIAuAE9AEoBHAG4JskxxBHrEgQwnwdHIHQLAgVGV4HgAb gFcekNcbEQrAGyB5CGA/CosfgAgxODAC0WktMTSeNA3wDNAjQwtZMTYKoOsDYBPQYwVALSVnCock G+sMMCTmRgNhOiZuJOYMghcF0ArABAFhIHBvZ2gCeQBwaVtTTVRQZjoAwCpDdEAcIB3xLhhuYS4L gAIQcm1p5HguBaBtXSYPJx0GYA8CMChPKVwCIGRheSxoIEp1HKAgGUAx8DGIOTk2MpAyOjMa0PxQ TS1/Jx0qoC+/KVsd4+RAYjIgZ2ktIjN/Lo64dWJqJSE1nylbdyEDSQQAIGUcUHJ5BuBk5nkhxiHd MzYj5xpFJOYXPREeghGwcj1RIGRvUHduPyAbMCcb0G7/HSAd0BHAHDAZEB4xHIAd5HcT4AtwAyAm GzEs8AQRadcfMD3sJclGBbFzOnAE9PppAiAgEXEZEAeQMfALUG5lHgAbIEPjdDWBHeMt/RYQcQpQ E8A3zyqgQUEeUv9LEB6CH4ATwDHwTENILzeP3wqyBxARcBxBHiF2Q/EBoAtMsBzSaAJAcDovL+p3 UNAuN9cvHeM97z7/F0AMCoUVMQBVsAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzDAAyaIilq7AUAACDDA AyaIilq7AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAALg8= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5A50.24DA7240-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 15 02:50:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUryH-0000Mba; Sat, 15 Jun 96 02:48 PDT X-Path: juno.com!diamonds From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 03:35:07 PST Message-ID: <1996Jun15.11357.0> References: <<1996Jun14.17188.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I live in Greenwood In and hope to move to Austin Tx by May or June of next year. I've been doing stained glass for 3 yrs.. I've also been doing fusing. I have a small kiln and just recently purchased a large kiln. If you haven't tried it I suggest you do. It's nice for making jewelry in the small kiln or coasters. In the larger one try making vases and or bowls for decoration use only. The fusing allows you to learn a different aspect of glass and you get to make neat gifts for giving to people. If you'f like to share patterns let me know. I have a large variety and this would allow us to save money and gain new interesting patterns. I do this with my sister who lives in Austin. Good luck. Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 15 03:53:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUswR-0000Cia; Sat, 15 Jun 96 03:50 PDT X-Path: spdc.ti.com!mack From: mack@spdc.ti.com (Caren Mack) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Workshop Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 05:50:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <9606151050.AA21985@epcot.spdc.ti.com> References: <<960614.083727.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > If your grinder is leaking, you may just want to lift it up a bit so it > doesn't sit in a puddle. I'm a little leary about letting anything > electrical set in water. Someday, you'll get a short or a shock. > My grinder is up on a couple of long wood blocks (just scraps) over a > tiled surface. Good point! It is actually lifted about 1/4 inch off the bottom because of some plastic ribs sticking up, but I will definitly make more space between the grinder and the water! I bought some white tape that plumbers use to wrap around pipe threats to make the connections tighter and sealed. I wrapped this around the lower shaft (that doesn't turn) and the top of the tray that catches water. It helped, but the more I've used it, it doesn't work as efficiently. As for the plug, it looks tight, and I'll try this plumbers tape around it and see if it helps. My grinder is only 6 months old so I don't know what the deal is. Caren ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 15 05:37:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUuZq-00001Za; Sat, 15 Jun 96 05:35 PDT X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 08:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun15.43527.0> References: <<1996Jun15.11357.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Philadelphia and Media PA checking in! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 15 09:35:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUyHL-0000Nta; Sat, 15 Jun 96 09:32 PDT X-Path: the.link.ca!dgrant From: doris grant To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 10:36:06 -0600 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960615163606.00669ee8@the.link.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada, where it's finally warm and sunny! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 15 10:25:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUz5y-0000Eaa; Sat, 15 Jun 96 10:25 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: jhendershott@macnet.com (Janie Hendershott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Workshop Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 10:15:34 -0700 Message-ID: <199606151715.KAA26193@jack.macnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > My grinder is only >6 months old so I don't know what the deal is. > > Caren Caren, Contract the manufacturer. I'm sure they will make it right. Ususally they have a 5 yr guarentee. I returned a 1 yo glasstar with a problem and they fixed it for me, no charge and sent a gift for my trouble. Janie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 15 11:23:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uV00L-0000Cqa; Sat, 15 Jun 96 11:23 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Qweenb From: Qweenb@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 14:23:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun15.102336.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi -My name is Bonnie and I live in Hayward, CA. I have been doing stained glass for approximately 1 year, mostly Tiffany style lamps. I am getting ready to start my next project, the 18" Odyssey Nasturtium Turban. I have been drooling over a sample box of Youghiogheny Stipple glass and have decided to use it for this project. Does anyone out there have any experience with this particular glass that you would be willing to share with me? I am curious about how it cuts, grinds, looks, etc... Thanks in advance for any hints/tips. I am new to this list and have enjoyed reading all the helpful advise. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 15 17:13:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uV5SE-0000K2a; Sat, 15 Jun 96 17:12 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:12:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun15.16127.0> References: <<1996Jun15.102336.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Qweenb@aol.com wrote: > > Hi -My name is Bonnie and I live in Hayward, CA. I have been doing stained > glass for approximately 1 year, mostly Tiffany style lamps. I am getting > ready to start my next project, the 18" Odyssey Nasturtium Turban. I have > been drooling over a sample box of Youghiogheny Stipple glass and have > decided to use it for this project. Does anyone out there have any > experience with this particular glass that you would be willing to share with > me? I am curious about how it cuts, grinds, looks, etc... Thanks in advance > for any hints/tips. I am new to this list and have enjoyed reading all the > helpful advise. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I've used some youghiogheny before, it cut real easy, and ground pretty easy, a little difficult to foil because it doesn't lay completely flat. It looks stunning, vibrant colors, it disperses light really well. I personally don't use it all that much, a little pricey for me, but I every so often I get a good deal or I treat myself and get some. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 15 17:45:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uV5xO-0000E1a; Sat, 15 Jun 96 17:44 PDT X-Path: juno.com!diamonds From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 19:43:01 PST Message-ID: <1996Jun16.3431.0> References: <<1996Jun15.102336.0>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi! I live in Greenwood IN. I've used the Youghiogheny glass before and have been very satisfied with the results. I think you will be too. There's not really much glass I don't like using. Except the colors. I hate amber. I'm getting ready to do a wedding invitation and then a form lamp. I'm unsure of the exact pattern at this time. It's an antique base that I want to do it for. It'll eventually go in my living room which is done in antiques. Let me know how it works for you. Best of luck. Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 16 14:39:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVPXT-0000Eva; Sun, 16 Jun 96 14:39 PDT X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: Elaine & Howard Rubin To: Glass list Subject: done for now Date: Sun, 16 Jun 96 14:38:08 -0500 Message-ID: <199606162139.OAA09618@desiree.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Hi All, this is Howard...PLEASE see and comment on my home page...address is ................ http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/ enjoy.... -- Construction done for now: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/ http://www.teleport.com/~weaver51 Elaine and Howard, mastering technology one byte at a time! E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 16 17:17:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVS0b-0000Dza; Sun, 16 Jun 96 17:17 PDT X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 20:17:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun16.161747.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The late great US Coast Guard base Governors Island, NY. Just off the tip of Manhattan, soon to be a ghost town. Janet ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 16 22:06:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVWVn-0000PRa; Sun, 16 Jun 96 22:06 PDT X-Path: hooked.net!nsherman From: Neil Sherman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 19:46:08 -0700 Message-ID: <199606170510.WAA29282@mom.hooked.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk San Francisco here - less than one year doing glass but loving it. Bonnie Carroll ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 05:26:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVdNM-0000QAa; Mon, 17 Jun 96 05:25 PDT X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: ssuter@intrastar.net (Shirley Suter) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Is that Ed McMahan at the door? Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 07:20:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Jun17.22039.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Suter's Stained Glass (409) 687-3841 Precedence: bulk Hi Group ! ! Now that we have built our dream workspaces....let's dream a little more! Scenario: Your supplier (hopefully wholesale) had a drawing from their customer list, and your name was drawn to win a $1000 gift certificate. How would you spend it? Shirley Suter Grapeland, Tx. where it is hot and DRY ! P.S. Howard, the page looks S U P E R ! ! ! ! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 05:32:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVdSr-0000M5a; Mon, 17 Jun 96 05:31 PDT X-Path: aol.com!GCmagazine From: GCmagazine@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Glass Library On-Line Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 08:31:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun17.43121.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Check out the new Glass Library site for the largest selection of books and videos on glass on the web at: http://artglassworld.com/supply/library/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 05:52:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVdmP-0000E6a; Mon, 17 Jun 96 05:51 PDT X-Path: juno.com!diamonds From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Is that Ed McMahan at the door? Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 07:48:29 PST Message-ID: <1996Jun17.154829.0> References: <<1996Jun17.22039.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk If I had that much money to spend, which in glass really isn;'t that much; I'd buy mostly glass, some patterns, molds, and what's left in supplies. I'd like more patterns for the tiffany style lamps. I'd also throw some forms for lamps and bases in there. So tell Ed McMahan to come on in!!!! I'm ready and the car's all gassed and redy to go. Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 06:22:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVeF3-0000Q1a; Mon, 17 Jun 96 06:21 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Is that Ed McMahan at the door? Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 09:20:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun17.52045.0> References: <<1996Jun17.22039.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Shirley Suter wrote: > > Hi Group ! ! > Now that we have built our dream workspaces....let's dream a little more! > Scenario: Your supplier (hopefully wholesale) had a drawing from their > customer list, and your name was drawn to win a $1000 gift certificate. > How would you spend it? > > Shirley Suter > Grapeland, Tx. where it is hot and DRY ! > > P.S. Howard, the page looks S U P E R ! ! ! ! > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass for a $1000 i'd get lots of good quality glass, maybe some dichro. i'd get me a large box of solder, and maybe a new bandsaw. and anything left over would be for books, jewels and filigree. basically it would be the same shopping, only i'd get lots more stuff. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 06:39:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVeW4-0000C8a; Mon, 17 Jun 96 06:38 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 07:36:34 -0600 Message-ID: <199606171336.HAA09381@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In Monteverde, Costa Rica. No-one else works with glass in Monteverde, so I really enjoy this line. I have to import my glass from the USA, and they put 100% customs duty on it! Meg Wallace >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ****************************************** Richard and Meg Laval Monteverde, Costa Rica ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 06:55:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVelP-0000L5a; Mon, 17 Jun 96 06:54 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!104344.622 From: "Christie A. Wood" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM> To: "bungi.com" Subject: Re:Where is everyone? Date: 17 Jun 96 09:50:12 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun17.135012.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ...in North Wales, PA, which is a Philadelphia suburb. I'm into my 5th year doing stained glass, and my first year as a professional. ...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 07:15:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVf4R-0000Ema; Mon, 17 Jun 96 07:14 PDT X-Path: atlas.na.informix.com!marissat From: Marissa Toghyani To: glass@bungi.com Subject: western US glass shops Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 09:16:32 -0700 Message-ID: <199606171417.JAA03543@informixs-bh.na.informix.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I will be taking a long, liesurely drive over the western half of the US in July and August from the Kansas City area, and was wondering if anyone knows of any great glass shops or "shouldn't miss" examples of glass work along the way. My itinerary is roughly I-80 to San Francisco, I-5 to Leggett, ? to the LA area, ? to Flastaff, AZ, ? to home. The itinerary and route are VERY flexible. Is there anything (glasswise) that I shouldn't miss along the way? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 08:38:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVgNV-0000I0a; Mon, 17 Jun 96 08:38 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Qweenb@aol.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 08:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun17.13540.0> References: <<1996Jun15.102336.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Bonnie! I have used Youghigani glass and find it cuts nice..much like Uroborus. I have also found if I use it with lead came less than 1/4 inch I have to "stretch" the lead came channel. I like the "Youghy" glass too. PJohnsen from Santa Maria, Ca. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 08:56:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVgf8-0000QVa; Mon, 17 Jun 96 08:56 PDT X-Path: odc.net!arowhead From: Robert Burmester To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: western US glass shops Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 08:58:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun16.15854.0> References: <<199606171417.JAA03543@informixs-bh.na.informix.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Digital Odyssey Internet Services Precedence: bulk Marissa Toghyani wrote: > > I will be taking a long, liesurely drive over the western half of the US in > July and August from the Kansas City area, and was wondering if anyone knows > of any great glass shops or "shouldn't miss" examples of glass work along > the way. My itinerary is roughly I-80 to San Francisco, I-5 to Leggett, ? > to the LA area, ? to Flastaff, AZ, ? to home. The itinerary and route are > VERY flexible. Is there anything (glasswise) that I shouldn't miss along the > way? > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassMarissa, We are located about 35 miles east of Los Angeles off the I-10 in San Bernardino, Calif. We have one of the largest retail stores in So. Calif. with lots of toys and goodies on display. Joyce and I would love to meet you if you are in the area. In the mean time you can visit our web site at http://www.odc.net/arrowhead. Bob and Joyce Burmester ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 09:01:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVgjp-0000Rea; Mon, 17 Jun 96 09:01 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Marissa Toghyani Subject: Re: western US glass shops Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 08:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun17.13958.0> References: <<199606171417.JAA03543@informixs-bh.na.informix.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Do not forget to include Royal Glass shop in Colorado Springs. Home of Terri Knudsen. PJ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 10:06:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVhjz-0000UHa; Mon, 17 Jun 96 10:05 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 13:05:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun17.9528.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello Bonnie: My wife and I have a glass studio here in Houston Called Shattered Images. We just recently completed a 20" Odossey Dragonfly. It was done using Yock and Uorob. The Youroboro cuts like butter. The Yock, on the other hand, was extremely hard to work with for me. There seems to be varying differences of density and tempering throughout the sheet. Some sections cut very well, while others would shatter no matter how you score it. Even thought the finished product is georgous, I would advise against using the Yock, especially if you are still new to glass. This is only my opinion. My wife (whom I taught to do glass approx. 6 weeks ago) didn't seem to have as many problems with the Yock as I did. (Guess the Yock needs to be cut with more finace' (?sp). If you do decide to use the Yock, I'm sure Howard and Elaine (Weaver51@teleprot.com) would be happy to give you some suggestions. He was instrumental in me finishing my Fly. Good Luck!!! Michael & Donna McGrew Shattered Images Houston,TX. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 10:35:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uViC4-0000X8a; Mon, 17 Jun 96 10:34 PDT X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott From: Janie Hendershott To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: western US glass shops Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:41:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun17.34123.0> References: <<199606171417.JAA03543@informixs-bh.na.informix.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Marissa Toghyani wrote: > > I will be taking a long, liesurely drive over the western half of the US in > July and August from the Kansas City area, and was wondering if anyone knows > of any great glass shops or "shouldn't miss" examples of glass work along > the way. My itinerary is roughly I-80 to San Francisco, I-5 to Leggett, ? > to the LA area, ? to Flastaff, AZ, ? to home. The itinerary and route are > VERY flexible. Is there anything (glasswise) that I shouldn't miss along the > way? You should try for Portland area. Portland is the home of Bullseye glass, Uroboros Glass, Hot Glass horizon, and then head north to Woodland Wa for Spectrum Glass. Janie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 12:55:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVkNi-0000O0a; Mon, 17 Jun 96 12:54 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Library On-Line Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 15:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199606171954.PAA25564@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Check out the new Glass Library site for the largest selection of books and >videos on glass on the web at: http://artglassworld.com/supply/library/ I tried this site and the address listed is inaccurate. It should be http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/library/ Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ Stephanie Braman ** E-mail: delphigl@vixa.voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 13:38:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVl3L-0000U7a; Mon, 17 Jun 96 13:37 PDT X-Path: microsoft.com!a-mattla From: "Matthew Lang (S&T Onsite)" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: Unsubscribe Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 13:37:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun17.63727.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk My revels now are ended. My internet connection is now melted into air, into thin air. The baseless fabric of this technology shall dissolve. And like this insubstantial pageant faded, leave not a rack behind. If indeed we are such stuff as dreams are made on, we should be made of finer stuff ere long. Thank you one and all. Matthew Lang a-mattla@microsoft.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 14:10:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVlY9-0000Vha; Mon, 17 Jun 96 14:09 PDT X-Path: interserv.com!ebsousa From: ebsousa@interserv.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Ed McMahon at the door Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:08:55 -0700 Message-ID: <199606172108.AA17847@relay.interserv.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk If I had 1000 dollars ? First I would buy a new grinder, I would like to try the Diamond Max (I think thats the right name) it is a combination regular grinder and disk grinder. I tend to be a gadget person so next I would spend some on assorted gadgets that look fun but I know I don't really need. Maybe I would buy a couple of the instructional videos and the rest would be on glass. I would get some of the more expensive glasses that I can't afford to use now. Donna S. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 20:51:12 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVrnR-0000XRa; Mon, 17 Jun 96 20:49 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Qweenb From: Qweenb@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Ed McMahon at the door Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:43:01 -0400 Message-ID: <960617184301_416110289@emout09.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I would spend it all on lamp molds, preferrably -Odyssey. At their current price, I wouldn't get many... oh well....some is better than none. Bonnie Johnston ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 20:53:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVrpx-0000Woa; Mon, 17 Jun 96 20:52 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Corel Draw Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Several weeks ago the group was discussing drawing programs, specifically Corel Draw. I am finding it is difficult to get the software because stores do not have it in stock or it is sold out. Can anyone tell me the difference between Corel Draw v. 3, 4, and 5. I do not have Windows 95 so I am unable to consider version 6. Help! Peggy Johnsen edupjohn@slonet.org ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 20:57:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVrtq-0000LWa; Mon, 17 Jun 96 20:56 PDT X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Is that Ed McMahan at the door? Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 21:48:04 -0400 Message-ID: <960617214802_137118540@emout16.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-06-17 08:26:44 EDT, you write: << Now that we have built our dream workspaces....let's dream a little more! Scenario: Your supplier (hopefully wholesale) had a drawing from their customer list, and your name was drawn to win a $1000 gift certificate. How would you spend it? >> If I had $1000 gift certificate, I'd spend most of it on glass. I'd also like to take a lead class, or maybe learn a bit about hot glass or engraving. On second thought, maybe I'd buy a thousand lottery tickets to see if I could win the big one, because a thousand dollars wouldn't go far enough. :-) Janet IMN2GLASS@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 17 21:03:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uVrzv-0000Nba; Mon, 17 Jun 96 21:02 PDT X-Path: awinc.com!jthomson From: "Julie M. Thomson" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: My frustrations Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 20:59:16 -0700 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am another "newbie" (< 1 year) to glass work, and have a couple of frustrations for which I request assitance: - Pattern Transfer - My instructor showed us only one method of pattern transfer: trace the pattern onto cardstock, cut it using foil pattern scissors, then attach it to the glass using double sided masking tape. This is fine and dandy when I get a nice close cut, but when my cut is bad (see the next frustration!) and I have to grind to get down to the correct size/shape, the paper disintigrates from the water transfered to the glass and the tape adhesion disappears so that I am left with no pattern piece to follow! So, thinking that I would try something different, I decided to cut out the pattern pieces as described above, then trace around the pieces onto the glass using permanent ink. At least the pen SAYS that it's permanent. Again, it all comes down to grinding... the water washes the ink away and again I am lost. So, how should I be doing this pattern transfer to glass? Perhaps my grinder is spewing too much water onto the glass? Do I need a new sponge? Or a different type of pen? Or different paper? HELP! - Cutting - I have a Toyo cutter... a "saddle" shape. When I first purchased it (in December) it had MAJOR cutting oil flow onto the glass. So much so that I seemed to leave a small creek behind me as I cut. My cuts broke very easily (nicely). Somehow or another, over time, my cutter must have become plugged because now I do not see ANY oil on the glass, and can't even get any on my finger when I roll the cutting disk over it. I have tried to clean it (thinking that there may be small glass shards near the wheel) and I have even loosened the top just in case I have an air lock. Still, this doesn't seem to help. However, if I leave the cutter for several days then return I find that it is empty of oil and I must once again fill it. My glass does not break as well as it did, either. So, being new at this craft, and less sure of myself, I am now afraid to cut near the edge of my pattern as I know that I am very likely to break it incorrectly and then will require major grinding which goes back to my first frustration! Any suggestions? - Worden Pattern System - Ok, this isn't really a frustration. Well, sort of.... my former instructor is planning to teach a class using the Worden (is that correct???) system for "dome" lamps in the fall. I just moved into a new house and desperately need to build a lamp for my kitchen nook. I don't want to wait until the fall!!! Now, she says that I will *need* to take a class. However, I built a panel lamp on my own (with no instruction other than from the pattern book), and I have been very successful (in *my* opinion) at teaching myself several crafts and other subjects in the past. I feel confident that I can figure out how to follow the pattern, especially if I take my time and am extremely careful. My question is this: what is your opinion? Should I wait for the class, or try it on my own? If I go on my own, where do I purchase the form & patterns from? Thanks in advance! ===================================== Julie M. Thomson - jthomson@awinc.com Castlegar, British Columbia, Canada ===================================== ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 06:51:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW17S-0000Tga; Tue, 18 Jun 96 06:46 PDT X-Path: wport.com!Trigley From: Trigley@wport.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: please add mr to your list of subscribers,thanks. Date: 17 Jun 1996 22:37:22 PST Message-ID: <9606180609.AA10205@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 06:51:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW17T-0000UIa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 06:46 PDT X-Path: whanganui.ac.nz!iweal From: iweal@whanganui.ac.nz (Ivan Weal) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:08:07 +1200 Message-ID: <199606180608.SAA23738@nethost.whanganui.ac.nz> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello from Wanganui, New Zealand. Have been receiving your mail for about a week now and look forward to seeing more. I've been doing glass on and off for about five years, but it's winter here now and I'm not keen on spending much time in a unheated shed. Cheers, Ivan >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 06:56:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW1BO-0000TPa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 06:51 PDT X-Path: patrol.i-way.co.uk!pwkelly From: pwkelly@patrol.i-way.co.uk (Paul Kelly) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Suppliers in New England Region Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 08:54:31 GMT Message-ID: <31c66b04.1922531@popmail.i-way.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello all! I'm writing to this group on behalf of my wife Alison, a skillful stained glass artist with several years' experience, a talented musician and teacher, but a non-starter with PCs! We are based in north Hampshire in England (Basingstoke to be precise), and in August this year we will be visiting the USA for a three-week holiday with our 3 year old daughter. The plan is to tour around parts of New England -- primarily Massachusetts (eastern), Maine (as far north as Portland), and the southern "halves" of New Hampshire and Vermont. We would be delighted to learn about suppliers in the region, particularly those specialising in books and patterns. A wide variety of glass is available in the UK, imported from the USA, Germany, etc., so it's not worth the risk trying to carry sheets home with us! If there are other places of interest to the stained glass aficionados, such as museums, workshops open to the public, etc., we'd love to hear about those, too. Thanking you in anticipation... Paul Kelly (for Alison) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 06:56:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW1Bh-0000UNa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 06:51 PDT X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:06:44 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <9606180906.AA08401@crosfield.co.uk> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > So, thinking that I would try something different, I decided to cut out the > pattern pieces as described above, then trace around the pieces onto the > glass using permanent ink. At least the pen SAYS that it's permanent. > Again, it all comes down to grinding... the water washes the ink away and > again I am lost. I use the permanent versions of overhead projector pens. This seems to stand up to water reasonably well, but tends to rub off on your fingers instead :-). It certainly doesn't stay on glass permanently. What I've tried doing is to buy some clear plastic overhead projector sheets, and then you can: (a) trace the pattern on and cut out waterproof pattern pieces to compare against, and (b) put the pattern (or preferably a copy) under a sheet so you can lay pieces on the pattern without getting it soggy. > Ok, this isn't really a frustration. Well, sort of.... my former instructor > is planning to teach a class using the Worden (is that correct???) system > for "dome" lamps in the fall. I just moved into a new house and desperately > need to build a lamp for my kitchen nook. I don't want to wait until the > fall!!! Now, she says that I will *need* to take a class. However, I built > a panel lamp on my own (with no instruction other than from the pattern > book), and I have been very successful (in *my* opinion) at teaching myself > several crafts and other subjects in the past. I feel confident that I can > figure out how to follow the pattern, especially if I take my time and am > extremely careful. My question is this: what is your opinion? Should I > wait for the class, or try it on my own? If I go on my own, where do I > purchase the form & patterns from? Most mail order places should carry them. I'm about to have a go at my first dome lamp too :-) and decided to go with one of the Odyssey forms instead of the Worden stuff - the Odyssey stuff is somewhat more expensive, but looks as though it should be easier to use ("sticking" stuff to a fibreglass form that has the pattern on looks easier than propping pattern and glass onto a polystyrene form with pins. -Jerry -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 06:56:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW1Bj-0000QUa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 06:51 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Corel Draw Date: 18 Jun 96 05:05:09 EDT Message-ID: <960618090509_70544.3642_JHD66-3@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Peggy, Corel 3 is pretty "primitive" and Corel 5 is called "flakey" by many. Corel 4 is considered "rock solid." You can usually find it in those mail order sections in the back of computer magazines. Just keep calling around. It's not being made any longer, so you'll just have to hunt it up. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 07:01:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW1Go-0000T3a; Tue, 18 Jun 96 06:56 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 07:54:13 -0600 Message-ID: <199606181354.HAA28755@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi; I am self taught so may have some "amatuer" (sp?) answers, but here is what I do. Sometimes I do use an indelible marker, yes it sometimes comes off, but not so often if I make sure that the glass is dry and clean before marking. However you have to be careful as patterns tend to enlarge themselves this way. Another way is to cover your pattern on both sides with contact plastic before ou cut it out. This is especially good if you think you might be going to use it again. I can't help you on the cutter as I have no experience with that type of cutter, and as to the lamp, although I haven't done that either, my attitude is that you don't get anywhere if you don't try! You can still take the course later if you think you need/want to. I wouldn't have even started if I hadn't just dived in, there are no clases here. Meg in Costa Rica At 08:59 PM 17/06/1996 -0700, you wrote: >I am another "newbie" (< 1 year) to glass work, and have a couple of >frustrations for which I request assitance: > >- Pattern Transfer - > >My instructor showed us only one method of pattern transfer: trace the >pattern onto cardstock, cut it using foil pattern scissors, then attach it >to the glass using double sided masking tape. This is fine and dandy when I >get a nice close cut, but when my cut is bad (see the next frustration!) and >I have to grind to get down to the correct size/shape, the paper >disintigrates from the water transfered to the glass and the tape adhesion >disappears so that I am left with no pattern piece to follow! > >So, thinking that I would try something different, I decided to cut out the>pattern pieces as described above, then trace around the pieces onto the >glass using permanent ink. At least the pen SAYS that it's permanent. >Again, it all comes down to grinding... the water washes the ink away and >again I am lost. > >So, how should I be doing this pattern transfer to glass? Perhaps my >grinder is spewing too much water onto the glass? Do I need a new sponge? >Or a different type of pen? Or different paper? HELP! > > >- Cutting - > >I have a Toyo cutter... a "saddle" shape. When I first purchased it (in >December) it had MAJOR cutting oil flow onto the glass. So much so that I >seemed to leave a small creek behind me as I cut. My cuts broke very easily >(nicely). Somehow or another, over time, my cutter must have become plugged >because now I do not see ANY oil on the glass, and can't even get any on my >finger when I roll the cutting disk over it. I have tried to clean it >(thinking that there may be small glass shards near the wheel) and I have >even loosened the top just in case I have an air lock. Still, this doesn't >seem to help. However, if I leave the cutter for several days then return I >find that it is empty of oil and I must once again fill it. My glass does >not break as well as it did, either. > >So, being new at this craft, and less sure of myself, I am now afraid to cut >near the edge of my pattern as I know that I am very likely to break it >incorrectly and then will require major grinding which goes back to my first >frustration! Any suggestions? > > >- Worden Pattern System - > >Ok, this isn't really a frustration. Well, sort of.... my former instructor >is planning to teach a class using the Worden (is that correct???) system >for "dome" lamps in the fall. I just moved into a new house and desperately >need to build a lamp for my kitchen nook. I don't want to wait until the >fall!!! Now, she says that I will *need* to take a class. However, I built >a panel lamp on my own (with no instruction other than from the pattern >book), and I have been very successful (in *my* opinion) at teaching myself >several crafts and other subjects in the past. I feel confident that I can >figure out how to follow the pattern, especially if I take my time and am >extremely careful. My question is this: what is your opinion? Should I >wait for the class, or try it on my own? If I go on my own, where do I >purchase the form & patterns from? > > >Thanks in advance! > >===================================== >Julie M. Thomson - jthomson@awinc.com >Castlegar, British Columbia, Canada >===================================== > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ****************************************** Richard and Meg Laval Monteverde, Costa Rica ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 07:01:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW1I6-0000Uga; Tue, 18 Jun 96 06:57 PDT X-Path: aol.com!GCmagazine From: GCmagazine@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Library On-Line Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 08:22:25 -0400 Message-ID: <960618082224_416493077@emout12.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thank you Stephanie. gcmagazine ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 07:01:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW1Hc-0000QGa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 06:57 PDT X-Path: ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU!UURESPES From: Janet To: glass@bungi.com Subject: electroplating came Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 07:59:12 EDT Message-ID: <9606181205.AA19695@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I make alot of 3-D stained glass angels for which lead came is used to wrap the pieces. I have seen, in stores, these angels made with silver looking electroplated came. The came looks like silver plated. They are beautiful. Can anyone provide instruction or leads on how to plate lead came this way? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 07:01:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW1KC-0000E0a; Tue, 18 Jun 96 07:00 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!104344.622 From: "Christie A. Wood" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM> To: "bungi.com" Subject: Re:My frustrations Date: 18 Jun 96 09:02:56 EDT Message-ID: <960618130255_104344.622_IHS67-1@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Julie M. Thomson's frustrations: 1) Pattern transfer. I was taught to xerox the pattern, cut the xerox using pattern shears, and glue the pattern pieces using a glue stick. The type of glue stick I use is Avery's "Permanent Glue Stic" which comes in nice, easy-to-use plastic tubes. The glue is not permanent on glass (no matter what the product's name is) and will wash off in water. Therefore, it will wash off if you have too much water spewing from your grinder, or if you didn't cut the glass close enough to the pattern and end up having to do excessive grinding. Or if the grinding head on your grinder has become dull from use and you need to buy a new one to make grinding faster. Another method is to place the glass atop the pattern original, and use a tracing pen to trace the pattern piece onto the glass. I use the Pilot Gold Marker (extra fine point) . If you let it dry on the glass for 10 minutes or more, it has a difficult time washing off in the grinder water. It's a good alternate method, but I still prefer the cut pattern/glue stick method. 2) Oil in cutter problem. Sorry, can't be of help here. Maybe someone else will jump in. 3) Teach yourself lamp making I sincerely hope you can teach yourself lamp shade making, as I am about to do the same starting today. I have taught myself lead stained glass work as well as glass mosaic techniques. I ask questions from my original copper foil teacher, constantly read tips & techniques presented in this and other on-line forums, read through the archives, read books and magazines on techniques and design principles, and then read through instruction manuals very thoroughly. I purchased my lamp shade form and patterns from my local retail stained glass shop. In fact, you can purchase lamp shade pattern blanks and make up your own pattern if you are into original design works. Good luck...Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 07:02:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW1KY-0000aWa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 07:00 PDT X-Path: aristotle.net!rwsmith From: Rebecca Smith To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where and Ed. Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 08:20:40 -0500 Message-ID: <2.2.16.19960618071130.2ff76414@aristotle.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all: I am in Little Rock, Ar. 95 degrees average and the air conditioner went down 4 days ago. Supposed to be fixed today, cross my fingers. If Ed were to stop by with $1000.00 bucks, I would be like everyone else. GLASS, GLASS, GLASS, GLASS, GLASS, GLASS, etc. with maybe a few incidentals. Rebecca Smith (rwsmith@aristotle.net) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 07:03:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW1LN-0000Qka; Tue, 18 Jun 96 07:01 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Corel Draw Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 09:33:56 -0400 Message-ID: <31C6B044.3C67@mars.superlink.net> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Peggy W. Johnsen wrote: > > Several weeks ago the group was discussing drawing programs, specifically > Corel Draw. I am finding it is difficult to get the software because > stores do not have it in stock or it is sold out. Can anyone tell me the > difference between Corel Draw v. 3, 4, and 5. I do not have Windows 95 so > I am unable to consider version 6. Help! > > Peggy Johnsen > edupjohn@slonet.org > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass They do still sell all of them. Corel 3 is the cheapest of all the Corel's it has all the basic functions, but you get a good bargain because it comes with quite a bit clipart. 4 and 5 are just more advanced. I'd probably recommend Corel 4 at least, it has the ability to see what your drawing looks like as you do it, whereas Corel 3 all you see is a wire drawing, and then color (as a separate function). Check your catalogs, tiger software, PC mall, etc., they should have it. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 07:03:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW1MF-0000VWa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 07:02 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:01:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun18.6142.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Julie M. Thomson wrote: > > I am another "newbie" (< 1 year) to glass work, and have a couple of > frustrations for which I request assitance: > > - Pattern Transfer - > > My instructor showed us only one method of pattern transfer: trace the > pattern onto cardstock, cut it using foil pattern scissors, then attach it > to the glass using double sided masking tape. This is fine and dandy when I > get a nice close cut, but when my cut is bad (see the next frustration!) and > I have to grind to get down to the correct size/shape, the paper > disintigrates from the water transfered to the glass and the tape adhesion > disappears so that I am left with no pattern piece to follow! > > So, thinking that I would try something different, I decided to cut out the > pattern pieces as described above, then trace around the pieces onto the > glass using permanent ink. At least the pen SAYS that it's permanent. > Again, it all comes down to grinding... the water washes the ink away and > again I am lost. > > So, how should I be doing this pattern transfer to glass? Perhaps my > grinder is spewing too much water onto the glass? Do I need a new sponge? > Or a different type of pen? Or different paper? HELP! > > - Cutting - > > I have a Toyo cutter... a "saddle" shape. When I first purchased it (in > December) it had MAJOR cutting oil flow onto the glass. So much so that I > seemed to leave a small creek behind me as I cut. My cuts broke very easily > (nicely). Somehow or another, over time, my cutter must have become plugged > because now I do not see ANY oil on the glass, and can't even get any on my > finger when I roll the cutting disk over it. I have tried to clean it > (thinking that there may be small glass shards near the wheel) and I have > even loosened the top just in case I have an air lock. Still, this doesn't > seem to help. However, if I leave the cutter for several days then return I > find that it is empty of oil and I must once again fill it. My glass does > not break as well as it did, either. > > So, being new at this craft, and less sure of myself, I am now afraid to cut > near the edge of my pattern as I know that I am very likely to break it > incorrectly and then will require major grinding which goes back to my first > frustration! Any suggestions? > > - Worden Pattern System - > > Ok, this isn't really a frustration. Well, sort of.... my former instructor > is planning to teach a class using the Worden (is that correct???) system > for "dome" lamps in the fall. I just moved into a new house and desperately > need to build a lamp for my kitchen nook. I don't want to wait until the > fall!!! Now, she says that I will *need* to take a class. However, I built > a panel lamp on my own (with no instruction other than from the pattern > book), and I have been very successful (in *my* opinion) at teaching myself > several crafts and other subjects in the past. I feel confident that I can > figure out how to follow the pattern, especially if I take my time and am > extremely careful. My question is this: what is your opinion? Should I > wait for the class, or try it on my own? If I go on my own, where do I > purchase the form & patterns from? > > Thanks in advance! > > ===================================== > Julie M. Thomson - jthomson@awinc.com > Castlegar, British Columbia, Canada > ===================================== > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass OK Pattern transfer: there are several ways to transfer patterns on glass, first there's the method you described above. i really don't like that method because it takes extra long to complete a project. also instead of paper try using plastic, acetate or something. i use the marker transfer method. if your using a Sharpie marker, i found it doesn't bond to the glass very well, and when the vibrations and water hits it floats off in chunks. instead i use the- Pentel super fine permanent MF50 Japan -for the colors that black would be OK on, it writes smoothly and is pretty much grinder friendly. for darker colors i use- Pilot gold Ex-Fine -i found the pilot paint markers hold up the best, so well in fact it takes acetone at the end of a project to wash it off. besides tracing pieces, it's good for numbering them as it's difficult to wash off. another method is the carbon paper method where you trace the pattern on the glass using carbon paper, works well for black and mirror, but you'll still have to trace it with another marker. you can get theses makers at PEARL PAINT or the like. you grinder, it should have plenty of water. the water will keep you bit cool, and your glass, it will also keep the glass powder to a minimum. Cutting as in saddle shape do you mean the one that looks kind of small and comes to a T, or the pistol grip one? i found the pistol grip leaks oil like crazy. i personally have always used a fletcher-terry, and it has never leaked any oil. every so often i will run my finger over the wheel to free it up of any glass, until it runs free and smooth and there is no crunching. Lamp Making Worden is one method the other is the odyssey system. the one your doing has sectional Styrofoam molds, where as the other uses a one piece plastic dome and is rather expensive. although i don't disagree with the instructor, it sounds like he want's more of your money. a panel lamp and a dome lamp are too completely different things, many more steps. what I'd recommend is do it at home first and then go to a class if necessary try building a small lamp first, they have some real cute molds out there. get the feel of how it should be cut. when soldering the cap be sure and solder the inside of the cap well (it's the most important part of the lamp). it might help if you by a video on lamp making. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 07:20:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW1cw-0000PMa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 07:19 PDT X-Path: c031.aone.net.au!Gordon.Newell From: Gordon.Newell@c031.aone.net.au To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Corel Draw Date: Wed, 19 Jun 96 00:19:16 +0100 Message-ID: <199606181419.AAA15484@mail.mel.aone.net.au> References: <<960618090509_70544.3642_JHD66-3@CompuServe.COM>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In <960618090509_70544.3642_JHD66-3@CompuServe.COM>, on 06/18/96 at 05:05 AM, "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> said: >Peggy, >Corel 3 is pretty "primitive" and Corel 5 is called "flakey" by many. >Corel 4 is considered "rock solid." You can usually find it in those >mail order sections in the back of computer magazines. Just keep calling >around. It's not being made any longer, so you'll just have to hunt it >up. > __________________________________________ > Albert Lewis Executive Director > International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. > __________________________________________ I think you will find that ALL versions of Corel are still selling. Corel has decided to keep all on the market. Different features/function and of course . . price! Corel are on the WWW - somewhere. Try www.corel.com ~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'-._.-'~ Gordon Newell, Chalcot Micro Systems Telephone: +61 3 9708 0134, Fax: +61 3 9221 3958, Mobile: 041 111 6636 OS/2 is D.E.A.D (Definitely Efficient And Durable) ~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'-._.-'~ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 08:52:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW34j-0000V0a; Tue, 18 Jun 96 08:52 PDT X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: electroplating came Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 16:53:06 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <9606181553.AA10318@crosfield.co.uk> References: <<9606181205.AA19695@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > I make alot of 3-D stained glass angels for which lead came is used to wrap > the pieces. I have seen, in stores, these angels made with silver looking > electroplated came. The came looks like silver plated. They are beautiful. > Can anyone provide instruction or leads on how to plate lead came this way? > I believe that some of the solutions used in electroplating are potentially dangerous - there was a news item over here a few days ago about some cyanide based tablets going missing. Anyway, it might be simpler to see if you can find a local plating firm and see how much they'd charge. Or there used to be some pretty expensive solution that claimed to silver or gold plate things like cutlery - that might work, but I haven't seen it advertised recently (and I assume you'd only get a very thin coat). -Jerry -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 09:08:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW3Jg-0000axa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 09:07 PDT X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: krmcdonald@ucdavis.edu (Kathe R. McDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 07:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199606181410.HAA16971@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Julie, I have found metallic gold pens to be helpful. They cost ~$4-5 each and the "ink" stays on the glass. Kathe R. McDonald Office of Curricular Support "Aint no time to hate." J. Garcia 1995 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 09:32:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW3go-0000Tya; Tue, 18 Jun 96 09:31 PDT X-Path: po.cwru.edu!txh4 From: txh4@po.cwru.edu (Theodore P. Hasenstaub) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 12:23:40 -0400 Message-ID: <199606181631.MAA08069@cornelius.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Jerry, I've had the same problems your experiening with markers coming off in water. I have now solved that problem by using markers made by PILOT. They come in gold and silver with a very fine point. The only problem is that you have to keep them capped tight or they dry out. You can usually find these marker pens at a stationry supply store. Ted >> So, thinking that I would try something different, I decided to cut out the >> pattern pieces as described above, then trace around the pieces onto the >> glass using permanent ink. At least the pen SAYS that it's permanent. >> Again, it all comes down to grinding... the water washes the ink away and >> again I am lost. > >I use the permanent versions of overhead projector pens. This seems to stand >up to water reasonably well, but tends to rub off on your fingers instead :-). >It certainly doesn't stay on glass permanently. What I've tried doing is to >buy some clear plastic overhead projector sheets, and then you can: > >(a) trace the pattern on and cut out waterproof pattern pieces to compare >against, and > >(b) put the pattern (or preferably a copy) under a sheet so you can lay pieces >on the pattern without getting it soggy. > >> Ok, this isn't really a frustration. Well, sort of.... my former instructor >> is planning to teach a class using the Worden (is that correct???) system >> for "dome" lamps in the fall. I just moved into a new house and desperately >> need to build a lamp for my kitchen nook. I don't want to wait until the >> fall!!! Now, she says that I will *need* to take a class. However, I built >> a panel lamp on my own (with no instruction other than from the pattern >> book), and I have been very successful (in *my* opinion) at teaching myself >> several crafts and other subjects in the past. I feel confident that I can >> figure out how to follow the pattern, especially if I take my time and am >> extremely careful. My question is this: what is your opinion? Should I >> wait for the class, or try it on my own? If I go on my own, where do I >> purchase the form & patterns from? > >Most mail order places should carry them. I'm about to have a go at my >first dome lamp too :-) and decided to go with one of the Odyssey forms >instead of the Worden stuff - the Odyssey stuff is somewhat more expensive, >but looks as though it should be easier to use ("sticking" stuff to a >fibreglass form that has the pattern on looks easier than propping pattern >and glass onto a polystyrene form with pins. > > >-Jerry > > >-- > _|_ > / | Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) > \_|_ jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) >\__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 10:14:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW4L3-00001ba; Tue, 18 Jun 96 10:13 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun18.3103.0> References: <<9606180906.AA08401@crosfield.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Don't give up on using a permanent ink pen to trace your patterns. I have tried most and have found the Stabilo brand to stand up nicely. Also, it does sound as if you have more water in your grinder than you need. Try cuttin down on that. I gauge the water level by putting the platform on it and only filling it to the point the waterpump will bring the water up when using the small grinder head. Good Luck. P. Johnsen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 12:13:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW6Cm-0000SAa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 12:12 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: electroplating came Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 15:12:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun18.111216.0> References: <<9606181205.AA19695@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Janet wrote: > > I make alot of 3-D stained glass angels for which lead came is used to wrap > the pieces. I have seen, in stores, these angels made with silver looking > electroplated came. The came looks like silver plated. They are beautiful. > Can anyone provide instruction or leads on how to plate lead came this way? > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I wondered that myself, I got a book on electroplating, and as it turns out if you have to electroplate solder or lead based things, you need cyanide based products. And when your done plating and exhausted the plating solution it is very difficult to get rid of that chemical, I needed electroplating done I would hire a professional. Usually they do it in bulk quantities. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 13:14:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW79c-000021a; Tue, 18 Jun 96 13:13 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Strain77 From: Strain77@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: western US glass shops Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 16:13:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun18.121350.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk A glass shop in Sacramento is just off I-80. It's where I take glass classes . They have lots of glass to choose from and are really friendly folks. The owners are Philip & Hazel. The name is Rainbow Bead and Glass. From I-80 take the Madison Avenue exit (these directions are assuming you to be coming in from the east heading to San Francisco). It's about 12 miles before the city of Sacramento. Exit to the left back over the freeway. Stay in your right lane. About three lights up, at Auburn Blvd, take a right onto Auburn Blvd. Stay in the left lane. About 2 to 3 more lights down, between Myrtle & Orangegrove Ave you'll see the glass shop on the left hand side. There's a Harley Davidson Shop right next to it. If you reach the light at Orangegrove Ave, you've gone too far. Good Luck. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 14:19:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW8Aa-0000f1a; Tue, 18 Jun 96 14:18 PDT X-Path: interserv.com!ebsousa From: ebsousa@interserv.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 14:18:06 -0700 Message-ID: <199606182118.AA19387@relay.interserv.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Janet, If you want to try the lamp on your own go ahead and give it a try! It is basicely the same skills as any other project that you have already done. I am just finishing my first worden lamp project and I did it on my own. Pretty much you are just cutting glass and putting it together. Some things that I learned: I would try double sided tape to stick the glass to the form instead of pins. I kept finding the pieces moved with just the pins holding them. After cutting the pattern pieces put them on the form to be sure the size seems right I found that their pattern pieces left a larger space between each piece than I liked (probably to leave room for the pins). I don't know if you have a pattern in mind already but I know I picked a pattern that had larger and less pieces than most of the others thinking it would be easier for my first attempt but I discovered that I had trouble positioning the larger pieces on the form. The ends kept sticking up which I didn't care for. So my lamp isn't perfect but it isn't a disaster either. Don't let anyone tell you that you need to take a class or that you aren't ready for any project! It is your willingness to tackle it and the effort you are willing to put into it that will determine your success. The worst that can happen is that you will have to recut a bunch of pieces. Any ways that is my 2 cents worth. Good luck and let us know how your lamp turns out. Donna S. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 15:53:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uW9d2-0000fBa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 15:52 PDT X-Path: cetlink.net!karlp From: "KARL L. PREISACH" To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: RE: My frustrations Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:44:42 -0400 Message-ID: <199606182251.SAA25418@moltar.cetlink.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: ebsousa@interserv.com > To: Glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: My frustrations > Date: Tuesday, June 18, 1996 5:18 PM > > Janet, > If you want to try the lamp on your own go ahead and give it a try! It > is basicely the same skills as any other project that you have already done. I > am just finishing my first worden lamp project and I did it on my own. Pretty > much you are just cutting glass and putting it together. Some things that I > learned: I would try double sided tape to stick the glass to the form instead of > pins. I kept finding the pieces moved with just the pins holding them. After > cutting the pattern pieces put them on the form to be sure the size seems right > I found that their pattern pieces left a larger space between each piece than I > liked (probably to leave room for the pins). I don't know if you have a pattern > in mind already but I know I picked a pattern that had larger and less pieces > than most of the others thinking it would be easier for my first attempt but I > discovered that I had trouble positioning the larger pieces on the form. The > ends kept sticking up which I didn't care for. So my lamp isn't perfect but it > isn't a disaster either. Don't let anyone tell you that you need to take a class > or that you aren't ready for any project! It is your willingness to tackle it > and the effort you are willing to put into it that will determine your success. > The worst that can happen is that you will have to recut a bunch of pieces. Any > ways that is my 2 cents worth. Good luck and let us know how your lamp turns > out. > Donna S. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > The only thing I can add at this point, is to be very careful when you start to tack the pieces together. Use the smallest tacks possible using a minimum of flux. Otherwise, you are taking a chance of damaging your form. If you have large gaps when starting to fully solder your shade, put masking tape on the back of the joints, and the solder won't drip through. Best of luck, and I know you can do it! Karl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 17:58:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWBZJ-0000f4a; Tue, 18 Jun 96 17:56 PDT X-Path: norwich.net!john From: john@norwich.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: unsubscribe Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 20:57:59 -0400 Message-ID: <199606190057.UAA17184@ns.norwich.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 17:59:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWBaE-0000JVa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 17:57 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (me) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Is that Ed McMahan at the door? Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 20:59:42 -0400 Message-ID: <9606190059.AA28543@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Ed welome................... Well I hate to say it but we pretty much have our ideal studio. But if, I would need about 10,000, sq. feet. The front would be our offices housing our wonderful design team. With conference rooms and multimedia rooms with projectors for presentations. All done in some sort of exotic wood paneling. Maybe teak. Ok....oh I forget loads of wonderful carpeting in the reception area with models and photographs of our installations and just some recent presentations. Oh I forgot this building would be mostly windows in the front....and upper lites all throughout the building. The rest of the building would house our inhouse sandblasting room...in this room we have two walk in booths... a few head respirators...I really don't want to elaborate but the are all eqipped with super exhaust and vacumning systems. Next,our pull down 20foot x 20 foot light box that comes out of the ceiling. This is used for viewing full sheet of glass and full panels. And our painting room............ (This is getting better). We also have an inhouse hot shop located at the back of the building...this is used for speciality glass...and rondels and jewels to be fabricated there...also the ability to fabricate sheet glass if needed. Along all of the walls are rollers to move panels and doors all are overhead able to open to the lot outside that houses our vechicles. In one large room we have our lite tables...all on wheels. Also our main work area has at least four large work table on wheels also with motors for turning panels. We also will have built in exhaust and vacumning sytem. Fan switchs built into the tables. Oh I forgot the kiln room....with two walk in, two coffin, and three top load gas and electric kilns. All run with this wonderful computer system that controls the whole studio. In fact there are two control systems that run the studio...one is a backup. Supplies....now they go on forever....probably a few dozen crates of Lambert just for fun. Some St.Just just because. With supplies I could go on forever. I've probably forgotten a few minor details here and there and I give I could go on but..............until we get that knock on the door or that commission from some public arts council we have to be happy with what we have. And we are blessed. We have had the opportunity in the last twenty years to design and fabricate some wonderful works of art that will be here for centuries. What a way to leave your make on this earth. my best, pj May you all have your dream studio someday...or at least something pretty close. excuse the spelling....i'm on my laptop and have no spellcheck. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 19:11:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWCi0-0000JXa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 19:09 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Is that Ed McMahan at the door? Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 20:07:00 -0600 Message-ID: <199606190207.UAA23855@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sounds great except the exotic wood, it's getting scarce!!! We need all the trees alive that we can keep! Meg in Costa Rica At 08:59 PM 18/06/1996 -0400, you wrote: >Ed welome................... > >Well I hate to say it but we pretty much have our ideal studio. > > But if, > >I would need about 10,000, sq. feet. The front would be our offices housing >our wonderful design team. With conference rooms and multimedia rooms with >projectors for presentations. All done in some sort of exotic wood paneling. >Maybe teak. > >Ok....oh I forget loads of wonderful carpeting in the reception area with >models and photographs of our installations and just some recent presentations. > >Oh I forgot this building would be mostly windows in the front....and upper >lites all throughout the building. The rest of the building would house our >inhouse sandblasting room...in this room we have two walk in booths... a few >head respirators...I really don't want to elaborate but the are all eqipped >with super exhaust and vacumning systems. Next,our pull down 20foot x 20 >foot light box that comes out of the ceiling. This is used for viewing full >sheet of glass and full panels. And our painting room............ >(This is getting better). We also have an inhouse hot shop located at the >back of the building...this is used for speciality glass...and rondels and >jewels to be fabricated there...also the ability to fabricate sheet glass if >needed. >Along all of the walls are rollers to move panels and doors all are overhead >able to open to the lot outside that houses our vechicles. >In one large room we have our lite tables...all on wheels. Also our main >work area has at least four large work table on wheels also with motors for >turning panels. We also will have built in exhaust and vacumning sytem. Fan >switchs built into the tables. Oh I forgot the kiln room....with two walk >in, two coffin, and three top load gas and electric kilns. All run with >this wonderful computer system that controls the whole studio. In fact >there are two control systems that run the studio...one is a backup. >Supplies....now they go on forever....probably a few dozen crates of Lambert >just for fun. Some St.Just just because. With supplies I could go on forever. >I've probably forgotten a few minor details here and there and >I give I could go on but..............until we get that knock on the door >or that commission from some public arts council we have to be happy with >what we have. And we are blessed. We have had the opportunity in the last >twenty years to design and fabricate some wonderful works of art that will >be here for centuries. What a way to leave your make on this earth. > >my best, >pj > >May you all have your dream studio someday...or at least something pretty close. > >excuse the spelling....i'm on my laptop and have no spellcheck. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ****************************************** Richard and Meg Laval Monteverde, Costa Rica ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 19:11:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWChr-0000Cqa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 19:09 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re:My frustrations Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 20:06:39 -0600 Message-ID: <199606190206.UAA23793@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie: I am sure all of us would like to hear what other on-line forums for glass are out there! Meg I ask questions from my original copper foil >teacher, constantly read tips & techniques presented in this and other on-line >forums, read through the archives, read books and magazines on techniques and >design principles, and then read through instruction manuals very thoroughly. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ****************************************** Richard and Meg Laval Monteverde, Costa Rica ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 19:33:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWD3G-0000G0a; Tue, 18 Jun 96 19:31 PDT X-Path: execpc.com!kshawkey From: kshawkey@execpc.com (Curt & Karen Shawkey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 21:31:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199606190231.VAA13178@mail.execpc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Janet, > If you want to try the lamp on your own go ahead and give it a try! It >is basicely the same skills as any other project that you have already done. I >am just finishing my first worden lamp project and I did it on my own. Pretty >much you are just cutting glass and putting it together. Some things that I >learned: I would try double sided tape to stick the glass to the form instead of >pins. I kept finding the pieces moved with just the pins holding them. After >cutting the pattern pieces put them on the form to be sure the size seems right >I found that their pattern pieces left a larger space between each piece than I >liked (probably to leave room for the pins). I don't know if you have a pattern >in mind already but I know I picked a pattern that had larger and less pieces >than most of the others thinking it would be easier for my first attempt but I >discovered that I had trouble positioning the larger pieces on the form. The >ends kept sticking up which I didn't care for. So my lamp isn't perfect but it >isn't a disaster either. Don't let anyone tell you that you need to take a class >or that you aren't ready for any project! It is your willingness to tackle it >and the effort you are willing to put into it that will determine your success. >The worst that can happen is that you will have to recut a bunch of pieces. Any >ways that is my 2 cents worth. Good luck and let us know how your lamp turns >out. I did what you did. I bought a Worden pattern and a form and followed the instructions. They were good instructions and the shade turned out beautifully. I was careful to choose one that was less difficult to start with. I used the pins as the pattern suggested and I thought that worked for me too. As far as the question about cutters and oil, I use a pistol grip cutter. I have not filled it with oil. I put some cotton balls in a small jar and doused them with oil. I dip my cutter in there every so often. Works for me. Karen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 20:39:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWE5M-0000Jqa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 20:37 PDT X-Path: gnn.com!PhillRoey From: PhillRoey@gnn.com (Phillip Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Ed, where, and "My frustrations" Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:34:49 Message-ID: <199606190337.XAA06141@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello from Georgia! Only $1000? I'd buy all the exoctic glass that I've always wanted to try, but it's too expensive. Thanks to Donna, Karl, and Karen for your combined 6 cents worth. I'm starting my first worden lamp (it's a small one, but you have to start somewhere) and was wondering why on earth I had decided to do this. I feel more encouraged now. -Jerri p.s. My husband wants to know how he can get his computer back now that I've discoved the glass groups on the board. Life is so hard. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 21:37:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWF01-0000BBa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 21:36 PDT X-Path: prodigy.com!XLBR14A From: XLBR14A@prodigy.com ( ROBERT A SIGMON) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Frustrations Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:59:18, -0500 Message-ID: <199606190359.XAA17344@mime3.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sorry to hear that you are having problems with your cutter. I use the pistol grip Toyo cutter and it has been nothing but excellent. It does not leave any oil on the glass, so to speak as the amount of oil needed to send the fissure through the glass is minimal. The heads on the cutters are replaceable, I would check with your supplier usually they are more than happy to help. Pattern Cutting I Always use the Pilot Gold Marker, Always. It works extremely well as long as you wait for the ink to dry, as others have mentioned. I just cut out the pattern using the proper pattern shears and simply trace around the pattern and then number it. The gold marker shows well on all colors of glass and hangs in for cutting, grinding and band sawing as necessary ( I use the Taurus ring saw and believe me it throws plenty of water. That my two cents worth, Bob Sigmon Plymouth MI ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 22:38:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWFxb-0000KMa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 22:37 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Frustrations Date: Tue Jun 18 22:37:43 1996 Message-ID: <96Jun18.222843-0700pdt.268478-25276+453@aphex.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Yikes, haven't been here for a few days, and lots of mail. Not complaining, I love it. Appears we have some frustration out there. Go out chop some wood then go back and look at your cutter. Unscrew the cutter (tip) from the oil resevoir and then screw it in again, perhaps it was just not attached properly. The tip should have some bounce to it (there is a tinnie weeny spring in there) as you put some pressure on the tip as you cut, if not then it was not correctly installed. Mine also leaves a bit of oil on the glass but never enough to worry about. Re; Worden Lamp making. I made 3 lamps before I tried a worden (365 pieces) the candle. It was one of those projects that you start off very excited & enthusiastic and then it peters off and you feel 'will I ever finish this', 'why did I start this'. Hang in there ! It takes time and patience, do something else (smaller projects) then go back to your lamp. It helps if you bevel the pieces. When all my sections were finished I still have to take all the sections to my instructer (many years before) to help me out. It actually took the two of us to put it together, the extra 2 hands really helped. I always believed that we should have been born octupus. I find more often that I need extra hands. PS. We are 2 days from summer, & I really thought we had it, was even working on a tan so I would blind every one when I went out with my shorts, and guess what, it snowed just miles from here. And our mountains are topped with that white stuff again. Even wearing sweaters in the house again. ARE WE IN THE TWILIGHT ZONE ?? Actually I think it's this global warming that's to blame for all this stupid weather, and not just here. I WANT SOME SUN!!! Karin >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 22:49:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWG7P-0000Mka; Tue, 18 Jun 96 22:47 PDT X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo From: direct.ca!kmccullo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Tue Jun 18 22:47:52 1996 Message-ID: <96Jun18.224032-0700pdt.29009-988+1370@orb.direct.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Hello Ivan, and welcome to our lively group, sometimes anyway. Sometimes we're all just a bunch of old bitties, and on occassion someone will get their knickers in a knot. But one thing for sure we're all great glass enthusiasts. The volcano that blew just recently down there, did it affect you at all ? You can't possible have winter yet, we still have it here above the 49th parallel. Karin. >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 18 23:34:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWGok-0000OBa; Tue, 18 Jun 96 23:32 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: pool lamp pattern Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 02:32:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun18.223255.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Okay - everyone laugh - but I'm about to make a lamp for a pool table. Problem is my "client" wants something sort of prairie style - very simple - two or three colors. First problem - does anyone know of a pattern available that may fill the bill or be adapted to do so. Dimensions are to be about 42" long and 18" high. Second problem - anyone know who makes a glass resembling navy blue opaque. Thanks. Barbara BGS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 00:31:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWHiD-0000C4a; Wed, 19 Jun 96 00:30 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Is that Ed McMahan at the door? Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 03:30:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun18.233029.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk PJ - Can I come work for you?!? Love your studio! Barbara BGS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 00:35:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWHmv-0000Ooa; Wed, 19 Jun 96 00:34 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: pool lamp pattern Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 03:35:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun18.233527.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk One other question - Has anyone used that software for designing lamps? Is it capable of designing one 42 inches long? Thanks. Barbara BGS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 01:41:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWHiD-0000C4a; Wed, 19 Jun 96 00:30 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Is that Ed McMahan at the door? Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 03:30:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun18.233029.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk PJ - Can I come work for you?!? Love your studio! Barbara BGS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 01:58:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWHmv-0000Ooa; Wed, 19 Jun 96 00:34 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: pool lamp pattern Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 03:35:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun18.233527.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk One other question - Has anyone used that software for designing lamps? Is it capable of designing one 42 inches long? Thanks. Barbara BGS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 02:49:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWJrl-0000G8a; Wed, 19 Jun 96 02:48 PDT X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Pilot markers? Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 10:48:51 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <9606190948.AA13704@crosfield.co.uk> References: <<199606181631.MAA08069@cornelius.INS.CWRU.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I've had the same problems your experiening with markers coming off in > water. I have now solved that problem by using markers made by PILOT. They > come in gold and silver with a very fine point. The only problem is that you > have to keep them capped tight or they dry out. You can usually find these > marker pens at a stationry supply store. > > Ted Are these the same as the UK ones? metal tube, cylindrical rigid plastic nib that you push down on to release gold or silver lacquer type paint down the outside of the nib? I'd wondered about using those, but I was never sure what that stuff would do to the grinder head. -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 03:25:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWKQR-0000fKa; Wed, 19 Jun 96 03:23 PDT X-Path: nethawk.com!1091 From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: international symposium - curiosity Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 06:24:45 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >GlassWeekend '97 >at Wheaton Village > >This is THE weekend at Wheaton Village! An international >symposium and exhibition of contemporary glass opened yesterday >and runs through Sunday, June 15th. If you hadn't already planned >to make the trip, this is your chance to change your plans. >Wheaton Village is at 1501 Glasstown Road, Millville, NJ 08332. >Call (609) 825-6800 ext. 2733. Out of curiosity...my paternal grandfather worked in a glass factory in Millville many many years ago. My dad was born there and my grandparents lived in Millville and so we went there lots of times when I was a kid. Millville was a very small economically depressed town back in the 50-70s. It is hard to imagine that town as the site of an international symposium. Does anyone know if the glass factory is still in existence and has the town grown tremendously? Sue in 'still raining in Michigan'. Do glass arks float? Sue 1091@nethawk.com susan.eiszler@nethawk.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 04:25:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWLMw-0000N0a; Wed, 19 Jun 96 04:24 PDT X-Path: po.cwru.edu!txh4 From: txh4@po.cwru.edu (Theodore P. Hasenstaub) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Pilot markers? Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 07:16:17 -0400 Message-ID: <199606191124.HAA13337@celeste.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerry, Yes, I think we're talking about the same markers. I've used them for a few years now and have had no noticable effects to my grinding wheels. The markers are so good that I usually have to use steel wool to remove any thats left after grinding. Ted >> I've had the same problems your experiening with markers coming off in >> water. I have now solved that problem by using markers made by PILOT. They >> come in gold and silver with a very fine point. The only problem is that you >> have to keep them capped tight or they dry out. You can usually find these >> marker pens at a stationry supply store. >> >> Ted > >Are these the same as the UK ones? metal tube, cylindrical rigid plastic >nib that you push down on to release gold or silver lacquer type paint down >the outside of the nib? > >I'd wondered about using those, but I was never sure what that stuff would >do to the grinder head. > > >-- > _|_ > / | Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) > \_|_ jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) >\__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 05:58:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWMoV-0000IVa; Wed, 19 Jun 96 05:56 PDT X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: Joyce Moran To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 08:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199606191255.IAA11086@brutus.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >So, how should I be doing this pattern transfer to glass? Perhaps my >grinder is spewing too much water onto the glass? Do I need a new sponge? >Or a different type of pen? Or different paper? HELP! > I teach my student not to use the pattern pieces after the initial tracing around them with a Sharpie pen. (I also find that if you let some time go by between marking and grinding, the Sharpie works fine, or if you must mark and grind right away, cover the lines with Chapstick.) I have then grind once around the piece to get all the sharp edges off. Then fit against the surrounding pieces. Any place that the pieces meet - or where it rocks back and forth is a place that should be ground. It doesn't matter if the lines do wash off because you aren't fitting to the pattern piece, but to the existing pieces. Makes for a much tighter fit by not taking too much off. > >- Cutting - Why has no one suggested replacing the cutting head. It has a wick that gets dirty as well as the cutting wheel can get dull. So by replacing the cutting head, you should get a nice score, and the oil should flow. If the oil still doesn't flow, you can pull out a very little bit of the wick and snip it off so that the oil can flow through. > >- Worden Pattern System - The former instructor wants your business. She wants you to take her class and buy your forms and patterns from her. I have no doubt that you can learn either Oddesey or Worden, but don't go asking her for advice if you buy your big $ items from a mail order catalog. I don't necessarily think you need to take the class unless you are one of those afraid to do any next step without someone looking over your shoulder. But please support your local stained glass shop. They invest a lot of time in helping you out, and you can pay them back by buying from them. Another small retailer, Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 06:05:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWMvH-0000JQa; Wed, 19 Jun 96 06:03 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: pool lamp pattern Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:03:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun19.5320.0> References: <<1996Jun18.223255.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote: > > Okay - everyone laugh - but I'm about to make a lamp for a pool table. > Problem is my "client" wants something sort of prairie style - very simple - > two or three colors. > > First problem - does anyone know of a pattern available that may fill the > bill or be adapted to do so. Dimensions are to be about 42" long and 18" > high. > > Second problem - anyone know who makes a glass resembling navy blue opaque. > > Thanks. Barbara BGS > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass worden makes lamp molds for bar or pool style lamps, they come in two pieces the side curve and the end curve, with the side curve you can make as long as you like. as for the glass, i have glass from wismach, which is a solid blue more dark blue than navy. there is also a color made by Kokomo, it's a blue whispy-opalesent that is granite on the back. when lit up it looks real nice, it gives a good glow. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 06:09:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWMyt-0000IHa; Wed, 19 Jun 96 06:07 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Pilot markers? Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:07:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun19.572.0> References: <<9606190948.AA13704@crosfield.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerry Cullingford wrote: > > > I've had the same problems your experiening with markers coming off in > > water. I have now solved that problem by using markers made by PILOT. They > > come in gold and silver with a very fine point. The only problem is that you > > have to keep them capped tight or they dry out. You can usually find these > > marker pens at a stationry supply store. > > > > Ted > > Are these the same as the UK ones? metal tube, cylindrical rigid plastic > nib that you push down on to release gold or silver lacquer type paint down > the outside of the nib? > > I'd wondered about using those, but I was never sure what that stuff would > do to the grinder head. > > -- > _|_ > / | Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) > \_|_ jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) > \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Yep, same markers, the markers stick to the glass well, wont grind off easily, and hold up very nicely. It's just on the expensive side. I always use gold, it will show up on almost any glass, so it's good if you have a bandsaw. silver or white aren't as effective, it blends to well with white glass, etc. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 07:07:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWNtq-0000Coa; Wed, 19 Jun 96 07:06 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (me) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: international symposium - curiosity Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 10:08:38 -0400 Message-ID: <9606191408.AA05579@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Susan, you wrote > > >Out of curiosity...my paternal grandfather worked in a glass factory in >Millville many many years ago. My dad was born there and my grandparents >lived in Millville and so we went there lots of times when I was a kid. >Millville was a very small economically depressed town back in the 50-70s. >It is hard to imagine that town as the site of an international symposium. >Does anyone know if the glass factory is still in existence and has the >town grown tremendously? Wheaton village is the site for the glass symposium. The Creative Glass Center of American is located there now. Great facility and hot shop. Offers apprenticeships a few times a year to outstanding glass artists that apply. The usually have about fifty or sixty galleries that exhibit the works of hundreds of glass artists...Chuhuily (sp?), Patti, Steve Tobin and many. many others. Works in price ranges or 40,00o and up Quite a site to see all that glass in one space. The also have guest lectures and a full weekend. The glass factory that produced Wheaton glass...for those who have been in the business for awhile, a real pain to cut, is not in existance anymore. If thats the factory you were speaking of. I kow there also was a factory that produced other glass and as far as I know its not there either. The village itself over the years has been refurbished and is really a delight. Funding for the New Jersey State Council of the Arts has made alot of things possible there. my best, pj and it is still raining in New Jersey > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 07:13:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWNzu-0000Iha; Wed, 19 Jun 96 07:12 PDT X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (me) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Is that Ed McMahan at the door? Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 10:15:04 -0400 Message-ID: <9606191415.AA05958@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >In a message dated 96-06-17 08:26:44 EDT, you write: > ><< Now that we have built our dream workspaces....let's dream a little more! > Scenario: Your supplier (hopefully wholesale) had a drawing from their > customer list, and your name was drawn to win a $1000 gift certificate. > How would you spend it? >> With my taste a thousand dollars would not go far in glass so I'd probably order some gold enamel or Hextal...it seems you never have enough or always are running out. pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 08:51:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWPXQ-0000Eva; Wed, 19 Jun 96 08:51 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where and Ed. Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 08:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun19.14852.0> References: <<2.2.16.19960618071130.2ff76414@aristotle.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Rebecca Smith. Hello from Santa Maria. I am originally from North Little Rock and couldn't resist saying hi. Tell me about your stained glass efforts. I only began since moving to California 10 years ago but once started, I can't seem to find a stopping place...not that I would want to. I now teach two classes at Vandenberg AFB every week. Love it. Peggy Johnsen edupjohn@slonet.org ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 08:54:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWPZe-0000Lia; Wed, 19 Jun 96 08:53 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Corel Draw Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 08:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun19.15118.0> References: <<31C6B044.3C67@mars.superlink.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Mike. Thanks. I purchased the version 4. Will look forward to seeing how it works. Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond. P. Johnsen from Santa Maria. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 09:06:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWPlm-0000JHa; Wed, 19 Jun 96 09:06 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:05:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun19.8556.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello All: I just recently finished a 20" Dragonfly, using an Odossey mould. Let me assure you that it was, BY FAR, the easiest method of lamp construction! I have built an 18" Bamboo shade, using an "inside" mould, an it was tough!! The "tacky-wax" method is a little messy, but well worth it. If you do in fact decide to use the Odossey system, I have a couple of tips to give you: 1) Use a light coating of the wax (it adheres amazingly well to the pieces) 2) Solder yourself a few "handles" (made of wire) to the outside of the shade to aid in removal. 3) The instructions suggest using a light bulb under the form to loosen the wax. Instead, if it is as hot there as it is here in Houston, try putting the shade in the trunk of your car (on newspaper to catch the melting wax) for 2-3 hours. Just my suggestions, but they worked well for me.. Michael & Donna Shattered Images Houston,TX. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 09:13:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWPs8-0000Jfa; Wed, 19 Jun 96 09:12 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:12:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun19.81230.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello All: I just recently finished a 20" Dragonfly, using an Odossey mould. Let me assure you that it was, BY FAR, the easiest method of lamp construction! I have built an 18" Bamboo shade, using an "inside" mould, an it was tough!! The "tacky-wax" method is a little messy, but well worth it. If you do in fact decide to use the Odossey system, I have a couple of tips to give you: 1) Use a light coating of the wax (it adheres amazingly well to the pieces) 2) Solder yourself a few "handles" (made of wire) to the outside of the shade to aid in removal. 3) The instructions suggest using a light bulb under the form to loosen the wax. Instead, if it is as hot there as it is here in Houston, try putting the shade in the trunk of your car (on newspaper to catch the melting wax) for 2-3 hours. Just my suggestions, but they worked well for me.. Michael & Donna Shattered Images Houston,TX. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 09:32:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWQAd-0000Iia; Wed, 19 Jun 96 09:31 PDT X-Path: light.lightlink.com!sharrow From: "Ray Sharrow" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: candle-powered buildings Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 12:05:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199606191631.MAA11094@light.lightlink.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I've been lurking here for a couple of months; have been working w/ glass since Jan. '96. Has anyone built and used any of the "Mini Mansions" patterns with CANDLES? They are very nicely designed to accomodate electric lights, but a friend would like me to make a house and/or lighthouse for her to use candlelight. If anyone has ideas on candle-powered buildings, I would be very appreciative. ************************************************ ** ALL CATEGORICAL STATEMENTS ARE FALSE. ** ************************************************ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 13:15:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWTeg-0000ROa; Wed, 19 Jun 96 13:15 PDT X-Path: cetlink.net!karlp From: "KARL L. PREISACH" To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: RE: candle-powered buildings Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 16:12:00 -0400 Message-ID: <199606192015.QAA10858@moltar.cetlink.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Ray Sharrow > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: candle-powered buildings > Date: Tuesday, June 18, 1996 8:05 AM > > I've been lurking here for a couple of months; have been working w/ glass since > Jan. '96. Has anyone built and used any of the "Mini Mansions" patterns with > CANDLES? They are very nicely designed to accomodate electric lights, but a > friend would like me to make a house and/or lighthouse for her to use candlelight. > If anyone has ideas on candle-powered buildings, I would be very appreciative. > > > > > > ************************************************ > ** ALL CATEGORICAL STATEMENTS ARE FALSE. ** > ************************************************ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Ray, Delphi Stained Glass sells about seven miniature house kits that are designed to use either an electric lamp or a candle. The roofs of the houses are open, allowing the heat from a candle to escape. I have built three of them so far, and they really turned out nice. My wife won't leave me rest until the complete "village" is completed. Maybe by Christmas. Hope this helps you. These kits are very easy to build, and come with everything you need but the glass. Karl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 13:23:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWTm7-0000Rma; Wed, 19 Jun 96 13:22 PDT X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: candle-powered buildings Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 15:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199606191910.PAA19877@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I've been lurking here for a couple of months; have been working w/ glass since >Jan. '96. Has anyone built and used any of the "Mini Mansions" patterns with >CANDLES? They are very nicely designed to accomodate electric lights, but a >friend would like me to make a house and/or lighthouse for her to use candlelight. >If anyone has ideas on candle-powered buildings, I would be very appreciative. I would be more inclined to use candles in the filigree house kits by Deelightful Heirlooms, because the tops are left open and allow the heat to escape and are naturally more like candle shelters. These kits contain the glass pattern along with the filigree which adds more intricate details to the design. All that is needed is to use a candle in a candlecup. I have made several of the houses in the "Mini Mansions" book, and they are absolutely beautiful! Lots of little pieces, but well worth the end result. Stephanie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 13:48:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWU9v-0000Dla; Wed, 19 Jun 96 13:47 PDT X-Path: nethawk.com!1091 From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: candle-powered buildings Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 16:48:18 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I've been lurking here for a couple of months; have been working w/ glass since >Jan. '96. Has anyone built and used any of the "Mini Mansions" patterns with >CANDLES? They are very nicely designed to accomodate electric lights, but a >friend would like me to make a house and/or lighthouse for her to use >candlelight. >If anyone has ideas on candle-powered buildings, I would be very appreciative. > I just finished the large lighthouse. You will need to leave some kind of opening at the top for heat escape for any of the houses or either lighthouse if you are going to use candlelight. I was very disappointed with the lighting of the large lighthouse. The baselight simply does not reach the top of the thing and thus the part that should light up is dark. I was thinking of using hinge tubing with flashlight wire but it would be impossible to change a lightbulb even if I got it to light up there. So I decided to leave it as is. Sue 1091@nethawk.com susan.eiszler@nethawk.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 17:07:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWXGb-0000GKa; Wed, 19 Jun 96 17:06 PDT X-Path: voicenet.com!sadams From: Steve Adams To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: candle-powered buildings Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:38:03 -0400 Message-ID: <31C88F5B.555D@voicenet.com> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I just finished the large lighthouse. You will need to leave some kind of > opening at the top for heat escape for any of the houses or either > lighthouse if you are going to use candlelight. > > I was very disappointed with the lighting of the large lighthouse. The > baselight simply does not reach the top of the thing and thus the part that > should light up is dark. I was thinking of using hinge tubing with > flashlight wire but it would be impossible to change a lightbulb even if I > got it to light up there. So I decided to leave it as is. Hi Sue, I too made the large lighthouse in the Mini Mansion book. To fix the problem of the light not getting to the top of the lighthouse, I installed a "socket pocket". It's a metal bar with a round ring at the end that you solder to the inside of the base. The light is then attached to the installed ring and the light goes where you want it to go. I got the socket pocket at my local stained glass store a few months ago, and at the time, they were brand new. I don't recall ever seeing them anywhere else so you may have to check around if you're interested. One more thing to make your lighthouse neat: You may want to put a round mirror in the top of the lighthouse to reflect the light from the inside bulb to shine through the top window of the lighthouse... It's a neat effect. The next one I try, I may rig the mirror up somehow to rotate when you spin a wire at the top or something. Good Luck, Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 17:36:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWXiM-0000Jpa; Wed, 19 Jun 96 17:35 PDT X-Path: sympatico.ca!taylor_buckner From: "H. Taylor Buckner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:34:51 -0400 Message-ID: <199606200034.UAA09828@smtp1.sympatico.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk subscribe H. Taylor Buckner B.Sc., D.S.A., M.A., M.B.A., Ph.D. Consulting Sociologist 2015 Gingras Brigham, Quebec, Canada J0E 1J0 Phone and Fax (514) 293-4835 e-mail taylor_buckner@sympatico.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 19:42:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWZgs-00001va; Wed, 19 Jun 96 19:41 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: subject Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:39:11 -0600 Message-ID: <199606200239.UAA09101@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am on several "lines" or forums, and my husband is also (one on bats) and it takes me awhile everyday to sort out the different ones. A home education one which I am on is very nice in that the subject line is (home-ed) re:....... so I can immediately sort those out. Is there any way glass-line can do the same? Thanks, Meg ****************************************** Richard and Meg Laval Monteverde, Costa Rica ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 19:43:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWZgs-0000Gja; Wed, 19 Jun 96 19:41 PDT X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Pilot markers? Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:39:01 -0600 Message-ID: <199606200239.UAA09082@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I don't know what Jerry's are, but here in Costa Rica we get Pilot indelible markers which work fairly well, but it isn't paint or lacquer, it is just permanent (sort of) ink. I some times have to clean with Alchohol to get it off. They use them for markering prices of merchendise on plastic bags here, and they are actually refillable. The only problem is very dark glass, as the inks available are green, black, blue, and red. Meg At 10:48 AM 19/06/1996 +0100, you wrote: >> I've had the same problems your experiening with markers coming off in >> water. I have now solved that problem by using markers made by PILOT. They >> come in gold and silver with a very fine point. The only problem is that you >> have to keep them capped tight or they dry out. You can usually find these >> marker pens at a stationry supply store. >> >> Ted > >Are these the same as the UK ones? metal tube, cylindrical rigid plastic >nib that you push down on to release gold or silver lacquer type paint down >the outside of the nib? > >I'd wondered about using those, but I was never sure what that stuff would >do to the grinder head. > > >-- > _|_ > / | Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) > \_|_ jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) >\__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ****************************************** Richard and Meg Laval Monteverde, Costa Rica ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 19 22:18:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWc8E-0000G0a; Wed, 19 Jun 96 22:18 PDT X-Path: whanganui.ac.nz!iweal From: iweal@whanganui.ac.nz (Ivan Weal) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: where is everybody? Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 17:15:25 +1200 Message-ID: <199606200515.RAA02190@nethost.whanganui.ac.nz> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mother Universe is definitely flexing her muscles and it's quite spectacular. Can see Mt Ruapehu with the naked eye from here on a clear day (about an hour away by car). Unfortunately the wind has changed today and we're getting the ash (quite acidic) but makes for brilliant sunrise with graduated red sky. It's definitely winter, shortest day tomorrow... >>Hello Ivan, and welcome to our lively group, sometimes anyway. Sometimes >we're all just a bunch of old bitties, and on occassion someone will get >their knickers in a knot. But one thing for sure we're all great glass >enthusiasts. > >The volcano that blew just recently down there, did it affect you at all ? > >You can't possible have winter yet, we still have it here above the 49th >parallel. > >Karin. > >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >>> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 20 02:37:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWg9Q-0000Rfa; Thu, 20 Jun 96 02:35 PDT X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: subject Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 10:36:30 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <9606200936.AA18850@crosfield.co.uk> References: <<199606200239.UAA09101@sol.racsa.co.cr>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > I am on several "lines" or forums, and my husband is also (one on bats) and > it takes me awhile everyday to sort out the different ones. A home > education one which I am on is very nice in that the subject line is > (home-ed) re:....... > so I can immediately sort those out. Is there any way glass-line can do the > same? Thanks, Meg One possibility for people using unix systems to read their mail is to look at mail filters - I use a mail reader called 'elm', and I've set things up so that mail from the three mailing lists I'm on gets stored automatically in seperate folders. You may be able to find something similar for other platforms. If anyone wants to know how to set up the unix/elm version, I can dig the info out :-). -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 20 09:13:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWmLl-0000SYa; Thu, 20 Jun 96 09:12 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 12:13:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun20.81325.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello All: I just recently finished a 20" Dragonfly, using an Odossey mould. Let me assure you that it was, BY FAR, the easiest method of lamp construction! I have built an 18" Bamboo shade, using an "inside" mould, an it was tough!! The "tacky-wax" method is a little messy, but well worth it. If you do in fact decide to use the Odossey system, I have a couple of tips to give you: 1) Use a light coating of the wax (it adheres amazingly well to the pieces) 2) Solder yourself a few "handles" (made of wire) to the outside of the shade to aid in removal. 3) The instructions suggest using a light bulb under the form to loosen the wax. Instead, if it is as hot there as it is here in Houston, try putting the shade in the trunk of your car (on newspaper to catch the melting wax) for 2-3 hours. Just my suggestions, but they worked well for me.. Michael & Donna Shattered Images Houston,TX. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 20 14:40:00 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWrRn-0000N6a; Thu, 20 Jun 96 14:39 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Qweenb From: Qweenb@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 17:39:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun20.13399.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk For all of my lamp shades so far (3 complete, 1 in progress), I have used a product called Glass Tack. The owner of the shop where I buy supplies sells it. It is a blue rubber substance, similar to the stuff you use to stick posters to the wall, but much better. This stuff really holds the glass well. No one in her shop uses Tacky Wax or pins for lamp making. You pinch off little ball of this stuff stick it to the mold and then push your glass piece to it. To release the shade from the mold after soldering I get out my hair blow dryer , warm up the glass a little and pull it off the mold. The great thing about this stuff is that it is then reuseable. The bits and pieces that stick to the glass and mold are pulled off similar to bubble gum -it sticks to itself. You roll it back into a ball, put it in a zip lock bag or container and use it again when your ready to do another project. And it's cheap, a couple of dollars for a package, and you need anywhere from 1 to 2 packages to do a lamp, depending on the size of the shade. I'm not sure what industry this product is made for, but if you are interested in giving it a try, call Sherry at "I Love Stained Glass", in Hayward, CA (510) 537-6270. She will be glad to either send you some, or let you know where you can get it. I hope this helps. Bonnie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 20 18:10:52 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWujo-0000Cfa; Thu, 20 Jun 96 18:10 PDT X-Path: prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: subject Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 20:58:11, -0500 Message-ID: <199606210058.UAA29398@mime2.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Meg suggests: > education one which I am on is very nice in that the subject line is > (home-ed) re:....... > so I can immediately sort those out. Is there any way glass-line can do > the same? Depending on the mail program you use, you may be able to do that with this list as is. Some mail programs offer an option of filing messages by the content of the message (message text) as well as by subject line or by sender. The glass list ends each post with instructions on subscribing, etc. If possible, set your email program to sort out messages with the message text: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com Voila! Instant organization... Hope this makes sense. I can go into minute detail by private email if you would like. ;-) Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 20 21:20:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWxh9-0000Hra; Thu, 20 Jun 96 21:19 PDT X-Path: sagelink.com!pkelly From: Patrick E Kelly To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Corel Draw Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:23:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun20.162344.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5EFF.A89AA880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have taught CorelDraw for the past 6 years. If you don't have Win95 = you can not use CorelDraw6. CorelDraw 5 is an excellent program and the = price is coming down rapidly. Not knowing what type of computer you have = it is difficult to judge which version to suggest, however all the = CorelDraw programs operate under Windows 3.11 (except CorelDraw6). Send = me an E-Mail and I can give you more informationl. Pat Kelly=20 pkelly@sagelink.net ---------- From: M. Savad[SMTP:morn@mars.superlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 1996 6:33 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Corel Draw Peggy W. Johnsen wrote: >=20 > Several weeks ago the group was discussing drawing programs, = specifically > Corel Draw. I am finding it is difficult to get the software because > stores do not have it in stock or it is sold out. Can anyone tell me = the > difference between Corel Draw v. 3, 4, and 5. I do not have Windows = 95 so > I am unable to consider version 6. Help! >=20 > Peggy Johnsen > edupjohn@slonet.org >=20 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass They do still sell all of them. Corel 3 is the cheapest of all the=20 Corel's it has all the basic functions, but you get a good bargain=20 because it comes with quite a bit clipart. 4 and 5 are just more=20 advanced. I'd probably recommend Corel 4 at least, it has the ability=20 to see what your drawing looks like as you do it, whereas Corel 3 all=20 you see is a wire drawing, and then color (as a separate function). =20 Check your catalogs, tiger software, PC mall, etc., they should have it. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5EFF.A89AA880 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IioGAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD0AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AU01UUABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAAAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4A ATABAAAAEgAAACdnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAVAAAAU01UUDpHTEFTU0BCVU5H SS5DT00AAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAN8KwEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5N aWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAPAAAAUkU6IENvcmVsIERyYXcAlAQBBYADAA4AAADM BwYAFAAXABcALAAEAEsBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcGABQAFwARAAIABAAbAQEJgAEAIQAAADg0NEIzNDUw RjBDQUNGMTFBREM2NDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAPMGAQOQBgBIBwAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAAL ACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AOBTuzI6X7sBHgBwAAEAAAAPAAAAUkU6IENvcmVsIERyYXcAAAIB cQABAAAAFgAAAAG7Xzoyu1A0S4XK8BHPrcZERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAf DAEAAAAUAAAAcGtlbGx5QHNhZ2VsaW5rLmNvbQADAAYQRTn4kQMABxC3BQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAA SUhBVkVUQVVHSFRDT1JFTERSQVdGT1JUSEVQQVNUNllFQVJTSUZZT1VET05USEFWRVdJTjk1WU9V Q0FOTk9UVVNFQ09SRUxEUkFXNkNPUkVMRFJBVzVJU0FORVhDRUxMRU5UUAAAAAACAQkQAQAAANUF AADRBQAAeAoAAExaRnXqoLgG/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UC AHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQCwoUUUUL 8mMAQCBJIBGAdsRlIAGQdWdoBUAIUOEWEGxEcmEH4AIQBcAcdGgbQAqwE8AgNiDUeWURkS4a4GYd UAhgtCBkAiAnBUAbE1cLgJQ5NR3zYwORbm8FQPZ1EbAbyDYdsBvYHzAEAKIgA5FleGMcAGwJ8EsF QBNQbwnAYW0h8WRfHKQFECJQIcIFoG0LgGcNHjF3A6AcMHBpZGzqeR2wTh/hax/QA/AkoUZ3EYAF QHR5cBtAb/Md4CRhcHUT0AXAHgIbE1ZpBUAh0WQGkGYj8HUCbCahbyBqdWRnZxtAJnAj8GggGzAR oGm7AiApUnMbgCnAE8AsGwD9JOBlKlEh8CJwHKMb2CLV/QQgbybgHDAT0CAAI2AnoUce8STRBCAz LjEa0Cj3IjIFMSBYKR2wBmAjYQeA8SHyRS1NC3ADICNSGvD5H5JnaRsxHgIEYBYQIcCWbhxxAMB0 KpFsLgqFVQqFUCaRSyJheTSWcKJrNWJAc2EpwGwLgHhrLm4RwDQ8CvQ20DEEODAC0WktMTQ0zw3w DNA5MwtZMTYKoANg9RPQYwVALTtXCoc6Cwww9TrWRgNhOjxeOtYMggXQAzChGyBhZFtTTVTkUDoz EW5AAMAdkSsAuy3RNtZdO/89DTDBdD4/hT9LVApQc2RheStwHkouQBtAOLArcDE5OdkdQDY6GVAU sE1Cfz0NbFRvRL8/S2cLYAQQQHZiLkAygC4kYUh/Q451nGJqOxFKnz9LUmVP0J0b0yAcIjdfOGMz NjnXsxpFOtZQZSsgNZBXHbB4Sm9oAIAJ8CZgOuI6/QqFPjSWV3AGYCpRB0AmYPUJ4Gsh4WcpcByy CcAIYP5wJmAdACixBPAgEACQJKKvHDEkki02K3BzJuBjBpD7I/AsEXlXB1H4HbAa4SMh/yjwI2Ak kihvKXApwCahHMHacycQdFngMzFiBZAbcP8RsFcHE8Ab4SihKXAf0igX8wOgYiFjaycABcBe5GCQ 1mwjcAhgdF3hQwORAHD/HgBHQRPQLCExERyxVwcowv8EkAnwJAFhIGDACeFR6SpAtR2wMytwNCtw I1I1XeP/Ypouph8hYJBXB14TLkABoH8igClSBaAAgS5iKlYg4SDySBwAcCFXD1WFViVvB3sJgEGg alYxNoAVoDchLt0FsGdvDztDcrdGBbErAP5iBPQqkhFxGRAHkCtwC1B/HXAgIQDAAxEpYE/QTHMt 9RYQcUahdEzPV3BKcCrw/zDSKWEcsjbQK1J6g3ZPTI//VzQHEBFwMpEh4UBgAxBs4wMmkRugdHA6 Ly93dX8wLkzXL3vjNDwKhVT/HMA1kGKRE8ADEAMgEbAsIfcsEicRHLFtZSJSA0gwIdH/HLIRcB1w JuAdEScRLBYKhX0b0ycEIF7hEYAh4SwlYv8dACPwHGAuQDsgKpFbwUzQ1wVAHgJgEmEycG8EcIfB /3KQC3E0lmElXtIkYQeRA/D9HLAgd8Be4DEhYRCLgjbQ+wqxZRE0aaQh8DMxKZAdEV8zEwqFQHBA YGexZF3iJ/8jcCLRh9ACYDWQFhAkYQeA/yNhUfSNsQVAevIrYYblHLL/AaADEF7gNZcq0gngJmQe AfcFwFrWFaBvWNE20DYwIfD/BCAeBF7RK3AmcGeBWfGDxv8sEgqFHgKUkiHSjAEzMVrV/2mUHLF1 kRWSL2CHInlhCrH/LgKINjCRheccwGPhlSMfkPsBkBWgZ1vBM9ApwHTBYKV5K3BQQ3ahInArcBHA Y/YunyGBwnMrkCkgI3AoFfs0LTtRTZZiQEOi6DvmdK//db92z3ffgXN5X3pve39NGv99b35/f49S z1PfVOkKhRUxAgC0cAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwQKTsQjlfuwFAAAgwQKTsQjlfuwEe AD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAJZa ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5EFF.A89AA880-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 20 22:15:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWyYe-0000EOa; Thu, 20 Jun 96 22:15 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Corel Draw Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 01:15:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun20.211530.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello: I just recently purchased Draw6.0. So far, I love it. I just finished doing some custom designs for a client. Having not ever used Draw before, I found 6.0 to be very user friendly. It does take up ALOT of H.D. space (160-180mgs), and is terribly slow comming up (even on a P-133 / 16mgs ram / 2mg P.C.I. Video).. I am interested to know about any "Patches" that may be available for 6.0. Thanks, Michael. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 20 22:42:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uWyyu-0000OSa; Thu, 20 Jun 96 22:42 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!vnunit1 From: vnunit1@ix.netcom.com (RICK D VAUGHN) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Pilot markers? Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:42:00 -0700 Message-ID: <199606210542.WAA09453@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: I've had the same problems your experiening with markers coming off in water. I have now solved that problem by using markers made by PILOT. They come in gold and silver with a very fine point. The only problem is that you have to keep them capped tight or they dry out. You can usually find these marker pens at a stationry supply store. We use these pens almost exclusively with great results and no noticable damage to the grinder heads. They are also nice for detail "painting" on the glass in silver or gold. The other trick that we use to keep the marker from lifting off the glass when grinding or using the glass saw is to allow the marker lines to dry and then give them a light coating with chapstick. This seals the marks on the glass. Good Luck! Teresa V Color It Glass! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 21 07:52:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uX7ZF-0000JHa; Fri, 21 Jun 96 07:52 PDT X-Path: evansville.net!birds From: Theresa Jordan To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Postscript to safe for kids? Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 03:12:19 -0500 Message-ID: <31CA5963.3AD2@evansville.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Also, can anyone tell me a ballpark figure of approximately how much it will cost for the tools and stuff I will need to get started? Would it be okay to use a Dremel tool for sanding the edges of the glass if they need it after being cut, or should I buy a tool recommended especially for this? I do have a workshop, and my husband has his own business, so I'm sure he will have some of the tools already......... (hope I don't sound too much like an idiot!) Theresa birds@evansville.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 21 07:53:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uX7Zb-0000Jaa; Fri, 21 Jun 96 07:52 PDT X-Path: evansville.net!birds From: Theresa Jordan To: glass@bungi.com Subject: safe for kids? Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 03:08:39 -0500 Message-ID: <31CA5887.586C@evansville.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everybody----I've been reading (for hours!) some of the archived messages from your board.....you all sound like really nice people! As a newbie, and I DO MEAN NEWBIE! (I haven't done any stained glass yet!) I have just a couple questions.....I have been reading with great interest for the past few weeks everything I can find on the net about stained glass, and am going to the library tomorrow.............I love crafts, and wanted to do something that not EVERYBODY is doing....... 1) is this something that would be safe for kids to do with an adult? My daughter is 8, and LOVES crafts of any kind.....I think she would really enjoy this, if it is safe for her to do? 2) Would anyone be willing to share a few patterns for suncatchers? or tell me where I could find them? 3) Any suggestions/recommendations on books to buy on how to get started, and what tools I will need? Need something easy to follow that takes you by the hand and shows you how to do it! 4) Would love to see some work done by any of you---checked out Glenna's page, and was very impressed!, but there aren't a lot of pix on the web showing stained glass....there are some, but not a lot.......I think I've seen most of them! Anyway, thanks in advance for your help, and now I'm going back to your archives to learn some more! (You have great info there!) Theresa birds@evansville.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 21 07:57:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uX7dr-0000Cqa; Fri, 21 Jun 96 07:56 PDT X-Path: nethawk.com!1091 From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My frustrations Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 06:09:10 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >For all of my lamp shades so far (3 complete, 1 in progress), I have used a >product called Glass Tack. The owner of the shop where I buy supplies sells > You can get Glass Tack in almost any store that sells school supplies or office supplies. Since I live in a university town, I see it packaged mainly for college students - they can hang posters, etc. on walls without leaving a permanent mark. Sue 1091@nethawk.com susan.eiszler@nethawk.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 21 08:30:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uX89v-0000Eka; Fri, 21 Jun 96 08:30 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: safe for kids? Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:29:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun21.7295.0> References: <<31CA5887.586C@evansville.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Theresa Jordan wrote: > > Hi everybody----I've been reading (for hours!) some of the > archived messages from your board.....you all sound like really nice > people! > As a newbie, and I DO MEAN NEWBIE! (I haven't done any stained glass > yet!) I have just a couple questions.....I have been reading with great > interest for the past few weeks everything I can find on the net about > stained glass, and am going to the library tomorrow.............I love > crafts, and wanted to do something that not EVERYBODY is doing....... > > 1) is this something that would be safe for kids to do with an adult? > My daughter is 8, and LOVES crafts of any kind.....I think she would > really enjoy this, if it is safe for her to do? > > 2) Would anyone be willing to share a few patterns for suncatchers? or > tell me where I could find them? > > 3) Any suggestions/recommendations on books to buy on how to get > started, and what tools I will need? Need something easy to follow that > takes you by the hand and shows you how to do it! > > 4) Would love to see some work done by any of you---checked out Glenna's > page, and was very impressed!, but there aren't a lot of pix on the web > showing stained glass....there are some, but not a lot.......I think > I've seen most of them! > > Anyway, thanks in advance for your help, and now I'm going back to your > archives to learn some more! (You have great info there!) > > Theresa > birds@evansville.net > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass as far as the question is safe for kids, well when i first started i around 9. she may have trouble putting enough pressure on the glass to score it. and of course you'll both get cut, though she may not like it as much. what i would do if i were you is to take a night class for yourself, and if your lucky there maybe a class in your area that may teach stained glass to kids, though she may have to wait a few years. in the mean time, she could help foil (providing you grind the glass), pick colors, help pick or draw a design, etc. but first you should know what your doing, before you teach her. now there are books and videos on how to learn but going to a class is really the best thing. ---Mike Savad p.s. if your curious I've been doing stained glass for 14 years now. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 21 08:31:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uX8AW-0000ERa; Fri, 21 Jun 96 08:30 PDT X-Path: stained-glass.com!webmaster From: Matt McDonnell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: safe for kids? Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:30:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun21.73013.0> References: <<31CA5887.586C@evansville.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: T & M Satined Glass Precedence: bulk Hi Theresa, I'll answer to safety. If you look up the archives, I spouted off about safety regarding teaching a class about three or four weeks ago. In a former life I was an OSHA trainer, I guess it's in my blood. Stained glass is safe for a MATURE child. Knowledge and RESPECT for the hazards of any activity is how to prevent injury. My basic precautions are: 1.) Cut glass is sharp (duh!) ALWAYS wear shoes (not sandals). Handle glass gingerly. A child must wear eye protection (actually, we all should) to prevent flying glass from injuring an eye, either during cutting or grinding. Use a cutting srface that can catch glass splinters. 2.) Lead is toxic, more so for children. NEVER eat or drink in the shop/studio/work area. ALWAYS and FREQUENTLY wash hands. (I would recommend that a child wash hands every 15-20 minutes when handling lead.) ALWAYS use some form of lead fume protection, either a mask or a filter/fan. Lead is primarily an ingestion hazard. 3.) Flux and patina can burn. Patina can also stain your skin, more of a nuisance than a hazard. Use caution when applying flux. Use gloves (and remove rings) when using patina. 4.) In general, keep the work space clean. Do not finish without cleaning the work area. Do not start working until the work area is clean. That's my simple advice. Matt McDonnell -- T & M Stained Glass - http://www.stained-glass.com Future home of the Stained Glass Marketplace Visit soon, visit often. send inquiries to mailto:webmaster@stained-glass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 21 08:47:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uX8Qd-0000OSa; Fri, 21 Jun 96 08:47 PDT X-Path: stained-glass.com!webmaster From: Matt McDonnell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Postscript to safe for kids? Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:47:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun21.7479.0> References: <<31CA5963.3AD2@evansville.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: T & M Satined Glass Precedence: bulk Theresa Jordan wrote: > > Also, can anyone tell me a ballpark figure of approximately how much it > will cost for the tools and stuff I will need to get started? > > Would it be okay to use a Dremel tool for sanding the edges of the glass > if they need it after being cut, or should I buy a tool recommended > especially for this? > > I do have a workshop, and my husband has his own business, so I'm sure > he will have some of the tools already......... > (hope I don't sound too much like an idiot!) > > Theresa > birds@evansville.net Be careful! Workshop tools may LOOK the same, but they are not. I would recommend purchasing equipment made specifically for glass. When we started a couple of years ago, we bought a grinder ($80), oil-filled cutter ($29), grozier pliers ($10), Soldering iron ($80 - I recommend an Ungar 80-watt, although a some of the Wellers are OK and less expensive) and of course glass, solder, flux, flux brushes, copper foil tape, patina and polish. All for a grand total of about $300. We've grown considerably since then. When you go to a supply shop (I'd recommend that over shoping via catalog the first time out), ask for help. If your not committed to making this a long term pasttime, you may wish to consider some less expensive options. Good luck! Matt McDonnell -- T & M Stained Glass - http://www.stained-glass.com Future home of the Stained Glass Marketplace Visit soon, visit often. send inquiries to mailto:webmaster@stained-glass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 21 11:50:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXBG3-0000PXa; Fri, 21 Jun 96 11:48 PDT X-Path: atlas.na.informix.com!marissat From: Marissa Toghyani To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: safe for kids? Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:50:39 -0700 Message-ID: <199606211851.NAA06645@informixs-bh.na.informix.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 03:08 AM 6/21/96 -0500, you wrote: > >1) is this something that would be safe for kids to do with an adult? >My daughter is 8, and LOVES crafts of any kind.....I think she would >really enjoy this, if it is safe for her to do? > Just a few weeks ago while I was grinding I bent my head around the face shield to get a better look and a few glass fragments flew into my eye. I was very, very lucky that no serious damage was done to my eye. I wear soft contacts and the glass did not penetrate the contact, although I did have irritation to my eyelid from blinking before I washed the glass out. Please be careful and be sure your daughter wears safety glasses when grinding. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 21 12:04:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXBUg-0000Gja; Fri, 21 Jun 96 12:03 PDT X-Path: utica.ge.com!mccoyn From: mccoyn@utica.ge.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Unsubscribe Date: Fri, 21 Jun 96 15:02:40 EDT Message-ID: <9606211902.AA09132@ucasrv1> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe please. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 21 15:07:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXEM3-0000N3a; Fri, 21 Jun 96 15:07 PDT X-Path: interserv.com!ebsousa From: ebsousa@interserv.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Safe for kids? Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:06:27 -0700 Message-ID: <199606212206.AA23211@relay.interserv.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk As far as the lead hazard for your daughter, If she is going to solder (soldering iron is another hazard in itself but it can be dealt with, with proper supervision) I would recomend lead free solder. Another option is glass mosaic which involves gluing the glass to a sheet of clear glass and filling the spaces with grout. I think the first step for your self is to look in your phone book for your local stained retailer he/she will have everything you need along with pattern books,tools, how to books. If you don't have a retailer nearby, there are mail order catalogs that will have how-to books and videos.I don't have the addresses handy but I know several have web pages.Try searching for Glass Crafters, Delphi, or Whittmore-Durgin. I am sure there are more, I just happen to know these names. Good Luck. Donna S. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 21 16:08:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXFIP-0000MEa; Fri, 21 Jun 96 16:07 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Postscript to safe for kids? Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 19:06:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun21.15640.0> References: <<31CA5963.3AD2@evansville.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Theresa Jordan wrote: > > Also, can anyone tell me a ballpark figure of approximately how much it > will cost for the tools and stuff I will need to get started? > > Would it be okay to use a Dremel tool for sanding the edges of the glass > if they need it after being cut, or should I buy a tool recommended > especially for this? > > I do have a workshop, and my husband has his own business, so I'm sure > he will have some of the tools already......... > (hope I don't sound too much like an idiot!) > > Theresa > birds@evansville.net > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass a dremel tool is a good tool to have in the shop, it's good for buffing, grinding metal, etc. however it should not be used for glass, a glass grinder should be used instead, and be sure to fill it with water. here are the reasons why you shouldn't use dremel--> 1. Glass powder is any good for you lungs, eyes, etc. 2. Glass may overheat and crack. 3. The piece of glass your holding may fly out of your hand. 4. You may slip and grind your hand. 5. It wouldn't be very efficient. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 21 19:25:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXINl-0000G9a; Fri, 21 Jun 96 19:25 PDT X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: candle-powered buildings Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 22:25:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun21.182525.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-06-19 16:48:52 EDT, you write: << was very disappointed with the lighting of the large lighthouse. The baselight simply does not reach the top of the thing and thus the part that should light up is dark. I was thinking of using hinge tubing with flashlight wire but it would be impossible to change a lightbulb even if I got it to light up there. So I decided to leave it as is. >> I have made a few of the lighthouses and if you really want them to light up the way a lighthouse lights, you need to buy battery powered christmas lights. I think either glass crafters or Delphi sells them. You can even use a flashing light for a realistic effect. It also makes it easier to use as a center piece as there are no plugs and cords to worry about. Janet F. IMN2GLASS@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 22 18:43:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXeCz-0000IWa; Sat, 22 Jun 96 18:43 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: safe for kids? Date: 22 Jun 96 21:41:39 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun23.14139.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I read some of the posts about starting an eight-year-old out in stained glass. I have to say that this is too young unless she can learn with lead-free solder in a classroom that has good safety equipment and a ventilation system to draw flux and patina emissions away from the work, a grinding system that doesn't release inhalable glass dust or mist into the air, and a teacher that will insist on each child wearing safety glasses at all times and who knows simple first aid and bloodborne pathogens practice for the inevitable cuts. A suggestion to wear a mask for protection is, of course, not proper for an eight year old. It adds breathing stress, is not likely to fit properly, and can't be fit tested. Some patina emissions are highly toxic. That plain old rotten egg odor (hydrogen sulfide gas) is highly toxic and can cause neurological problems. I found a patina the other day that releases highly toxic tellurium chloride. There must be ventilation. ANd of course, lead is out. The Centers for Disease Control surveys have shown that a significant number of children are already walking around with enough lead in their blood from environmental sources to be losing mental acuity. At 10 micrograms/deciliter and below, they have demonstrated that kids lose IQ points. Although they haven't studied them, adults probably lose IQ points at this level, too. Explains a lot to me! Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist ACTS 181 Thompson St., #23 NYC 10012 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 22 20:37:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXfyb-0000CKa; Sat, 22 Jun 96 20:36 PDT X-Path: voicenet.com!2cgs From: cgs <2cgs@voicenet.com> To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: safe for kids? Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 23:35:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun22.193558.0> References: <<1996Jun23.14139.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Monona Rossol wrote: > > I read some of the posts about starting an eight-year-old out in stained > glass. I have to say that this is too young unless she can learn with > lead-free solder in a classroom that has good safety equipment and a > ventilation system to draw flux and patina emissions away from the work, a > grinding system that doesn't release inhalable glass dust or mist into the > air, and a teacher that will insist on each child wearing safety glasses at > all times and who knows simple first aid and bloodborne pathogens practice > for the inevitable cuts. > > A suggestion to wear a mask for protection is, of course, not proper for an > eight year old. It adds breathing stress, is not likely to fit properly, and > can't be fit tested. > Great analysis and good sound advice! CHUCK ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 22 21:40:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXgyE-0000KLa; Sat, 22 Jun 96 21:40 PDT X-Path: nz1.netzone.com!lorley From: "Lorley L. Oneyear" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Soldering Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:48:52 -0600 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960623034852.00680d80@mail.netzone.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello Gang, Thank you all for your previous hints and comments ref: light box and cutting/foiling/soldering. Appreciate all of you who took the time to comment. One thing I learned is there are may different ways to get the same results. I have almost finished the cutting/foiling of my 18" octoganal hummingbird. When I get ready to foil do I flat solder the entire project and then go over it and bead it up. Or do I flat solder a small section and then bead it up..working a section at a time?? Thanks for your advice.. a step at a time.. Lorley from Phoenix Dispatchers Save Seconds..Seconds Save Lives ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 23 05:48:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXoZk-0000N6a; Sun, 23 Jun 96 05:47 PDT X-Path: source.com.au!aking From: Andrea King To: glass@bungi.com Subject: General Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:47:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun23.154734.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi to all, I haven't posted for a while but read my mail daily to keep up with everyone. A note to Theresa about teaching glass work to your 8 year old daughter. I think Mike Savad summed up my views very well and I would like to emphasise the safety aspect as well. Glass is not something that is forgiving not to mention solder fumes, flux, lead and of course the soldering iron. As adults we brush off a 'bite' from the glass or a jolt from hot solder but my view is that a child could be put off the wonderful experience of glass work because of such happenings, and that would be a shame. No matter how careful you try to be things can still happen as I found out a week ago. I had a lapse in concentration or was just moving too fast and as I went to get hold of a score to break it I clipped the top of my right forefinger into the corner of the glass and ended up with 4 stitches. No problems for me, thankfully, just inconvenience but could have been worse. Andrea ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 23 06:43:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXpQX-0000NKa; Sun, 23 Jun 96 06:42 PDT X-Path: server.northernnet.com!hensley From: Mike & Jodi Hensley To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Soldering Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 08:42:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199606231342.IAA28941@northernnet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lorley. I flat solder one whole side and then bead solder both sides. i know some people who flat solder both sides and then bead solder both. i find flat soldering the second side to be unnecessary unless you have gaps between your pieces. Jodi in Minnesota At 09:48 PM 6/22/96 -0600, you wrote: > Hello Gang, Thank you all for your previous hints and >comments ref: light box and cutting/foiling/soldering. Appreciate all of >you who took the time to comment. One thing I learned is there are may >different ways to get the same results. >I have almost finished the cutting/foiling of my 18" octoganal hummingbird. >When I get ready to foil do I flat solder the entire project and then go >over it and bead it up. Or do I flat solder a small section and then bead >it up..working a section at a time?? >Thanks for your advice.. a step at a time.. > >Lorley from Phoenix > > > > >Dispatchers Save Seconds..Seconds Save Lives > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 23 07:21:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXq1J-0000Mma; Sun, 23 Jun 96 07:20 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Soldering Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 10:19:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun23.61928.0> References: <<2.2.32.19960623034852.00680d80@mail.netzone.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lorley L. Oneyear wrote: > > Hello Gang, Thank you all for your previous hints and > comments ref: light box and cutting/foiling/soldering. Appreciate all of > you who took the time to comment. One thing I learned is there are may > different ways to get the same results. > I have almost finished the cutting/foiling of my 18" octoganal hummingbird. > When I get ready to foil do I flat solder the entire project and then go > over it and bead it up. Or do I flat solder a small section and then bead > it up..working a section at a time?? > Thanks for your advice.. a step at a time.. > > Lorley from Phoenix > > Dispatchers Save Seconds..Seconds Save Lives > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass when i solder i always flat solder first with 50-50 on the front, along with tinning, then i put a bead down with 60-40. i flip the piece over do the same thing on the other side, but usually i just flat solder the back, since no one really sees the back, and then i do my edges. if your wondering, 50-50 prevents the 60-40 to drip through because of the temperature difference also 50-50 is cheaper so i can fill in gaps and stuff. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 23 07:23:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXq3d-0000NQa; Sun, 23 Jun 96 07:22 PDT X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: ssuter@intrastar.net (Shirley Suter) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Soldering Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 09:02:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1996Jun23.423.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Suter's Stained Glass (409) 687-3841 Precedence: bulk Hi Lorley, Here is more evidence that there are several "right" ways to solder a foiled panel. My method is to tack the front side of the panel only. I do plenty of tacks....then flip the panel over and bead-solder the "back" of the panel. Flip the panel and do the same to the "front" side. Add the edging, wash like the devil, patina if desired, polish and wax and deliver. This method works well for me!! Keep cool if you can in Phoenix!!! Shirley Grapeland, Tx. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 23 08:04:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXqgd-0000Nba; Sun, 23 Jun 96 08:02 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: safe for kids Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 09:59:59 -0500 Message-ID: <199606231459.JAA04244@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk My thoughts on kids and s.g. ..... FWIW Maybe there is just too much emphasis these days on kids trying everything... instant gratification....quick takes....idiot proofing? I don't know. I believe that if a young person is interested in glass, there are many aspects that can be worked on to improve motor skills and hand/eye and artistic sense that aren't too risky. I mean if you were cutting a 2x4 in half you certainly would not put a skillsaw in the hands of most 8 yr. olds but you can teach how to use a tape measure and mark it off. Same with glass, they can trace patterns, cut out patterns, work with you on glass selection, smooth out foil, help clean up panels and so forth, when my son was about that age we would play the "glass game" I'd hold up pieces of glass and he would try and guess what kind it was...cath., antique, hammered, granite etc. we had a lot of fun doing that. The point is we worked together and I guess that was the most important thing in the long run. to Monona, I took a lead toxicity test about three years ago, result was negative, Whew! At that time I only paid 5 bucks for the test because it was subsidized by the Fed/State? because of the terrible damage to children from paint ingestion, is that still the case? Also I believe that lead vaporizes at far higher temps then can be attained with a soldering iron?or is there particulate mixed in with the fumes? So just don't eat the stuff? maybe... Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 23 13:47:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXw3S-0000Ola; Sun, 23 Jun 96 13:46 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: safe for kids Date: 23 Jun 96 16:46:09 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun23.20469.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len wrote: >>I took a lead toxicity test about three years ago, result was negative, >>Whew!<< Ain't no such. If you are on this planet, you have a lead count. The only question is "how high." Some tests can't detect below a few micrograms/deciliter and theoretically you could be below the detection limit--but not likely. In addition, there are still alter kucker Doctors out their that think 40 ug/dl is "normal." EVERYONE WHO WORKS WITH LEAD IN ANY WAY SHOULD KNOW WHAT THEIR LAST LEAD COUNT WAS. >>At that time I only paid 5 bucks for the test because it was subsidized by >>the Fed/State?<< Many health departments still will provide low cost tests. Occasionally they will do this for adults also. Adult blood leads of 25 ug/dl and above must be reported in 23 States. This is helping to identify the industries in which the worst problems are occurring. >>... because of the terrible damage to children from paint >>ingestion, is that still the case?<< A big part of the problem was lead gasoline filling the air with lead dust. The average blood lead levels in children dropped dramatically when lead gasoline was banned. The next big problem was lead paint dust in older housing and local problems like proximity to smelters and large lead painted structures like bridges, and lead-contaminated water supplies. Ingestion is not the only problem. Inhalation of the dust is also a significant source of exposure. >> Also I believe that lead vaporizes at far higher temps then can be >>attained with a soldering iron?or is there particulate mixed in with the >>fumes? << Time to re-examine your "beliefs." Lead begins to vaporize at the moment it MELTS not at its vapor point when it boils. This is similar to way water evaporates at temperatures far lower than 212 o F. Clearly, the higher the temperature of the liquid lead (the hotter the iron), the more vaporizes, but any melted lead is vaporizing. Lead vapor, however, is not the problem. When lead vaporizes, the vapor reacts immediately with oxygen in the air and recondenses into tiny particles of lead oxide called "fume" particles. It is the "fume" that is inhaled, settles on surfaces all over the house, collects in hair and clothing, and so on. This is why the OSHA Lead Standard requires that employers provide showers and changing rooms for workers so they will not take the dust home to their families in their hair and clothing. It is very difficult to clean up a home that has been contaminated with lead fume. The particles are so small they will go right through the vacuum cleaner filter or through a dust mask. To collect fume you need a special HEPA vacuum or a respirator that is NIOSH-approved for fume. The particles also are so small that you don't see them in the air or on surfaces. I just had lead wipe samples done in a workplace that looked pristine, but the lab test showed that the lead in the dust was 5 time the acceptable limit. >>So just don't eat the stuff? <<< Dream on....... Monona Rossol ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 23 14:26:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXwfj-0000OLa; Sun, 23 Jun 96 14:26 PDT X-Path: ix.netcom.com!rneaves From: rneaves@ix.netcom.com (Roger Neaves ) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Soldering Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:26:08 -0700 Message-ID: <199606232126.OAA21317@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >when i solder i always flat solder first with 50-50 on the front, along >with tinning, then i put a bead down with 60-40. i flip the piece over >do the same thing on the other side, but usually i just flat solder the >back, since no one really sees the back, and then i do my edges. if your >wondering, 50-50 prevents the 60-40 to drip through because of the >temperature difference also 50-50 is cheaper so i can fill in gaps and >stuff. > >---Mike Savad >What a great idea. I always have trouble with the solder dripping through the back. Well, to tell the truth, I have trouble getting the solder bead just right. But that's another topic. I will try your method the next time. Thanks. Janet ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 23 16:32:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uXydx-0000PAa; Sun, 23 Jun 96 16:32 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: safe for kids Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:29:44 -0500 Message-ID: <199606232329.SAA10235@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Monona, You said, Ain't no such. If you are on this planet, you have a lead count. Absolutely correct. I should have said I "passed" my levels were "acceptable" You said, Ingestion is not the only problem. Inhalation of the dust is also a significant source of exposure. Correct again. I should have said ingestion AND inhalation as opposed to absorption through the skin. You said, Lead begins to vaporize the moment it melts. True, but it solidifies almost instantly in a s.g. application, so I really don't think that's an issue compared to lets say a wave solder machine in an electronics plant. You said, Dream on...... Yes Monona, I guess I'll have to, stained glass is my life work, and if losing some brain cells along the way goes with the territory so be it. I will promise myself not to chew on my fingernails though. Thanks for the information, it is apparant that you are a professional and know what of you speak. I appreciate the constructive criticism (it wasen't a flame was it?) Len Oh BTW, what the heck is an alter kucker Doctor? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 24 09:32:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYEYe-0000W7a; Mon, 24 Jun 96 09:32 PDT X-Path: eos.ncsu.edu!jbbrauer From: "James Bartley Brauer" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Safe for kids? Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:31:56 -0400 Message-ID: <9606241231.ZM10587@eos.ncsu.edu> References: <<199606212206.AA23211@relay.interserv.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All! As a child I melted my first solder at age 6 in my Grandfather's garage. I recall my facination with watching the silver balls of solder turn solid. I was shown how to solder wires at age 9 or 10 and began to solder extra speakers to my radio. I even assembled a small amplifier from a schematic at an early age, and it worked. As a young adult I learned micro-soldering from a former NASA instructor. On occasion I use my soldering skills at work as a Field Service Engineer for a computer company. I also enjoy applying these soldering skills to my glass hobby. Until I followed the recent thread, I believed what I suppose is just electonics folklore. I always heard that there is no signifigant lead in the smoke from burning solder. I think the explanation I heard was that: any particulate lead in solder smoke was too heavy to become airborne. I also heard that you should wash well after soldering, to avoid ingesting lead from your fingers. Based on my newfound information about lead hazards, learned on this list, I will move my soldering table to the window. I hope to build a window mount for the fan I pulled off an industrial heating unit, and use it to divert fumes. My point is this. I was allowed to use a soldering iron at a young age and allowed to pursue other constructive interests. In the process was burned, shocked, and cut. But, these experiences helped me develop my interest so that I now have a career I enjoy. My wife and I don't have children, so I am not comfortable saying what one should or should not allow their children to do. Hopefully my little story will help the author of "Safe for kids?", and others, make an informed decision. Thanks, James B. Brauer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 24 10:04:38 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYF3M-0000aaa; Mon, 24 Jun 96 10:03 PDT X-Path: stained-glass.com!webmaster From: Matt McDonnell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: safe for kids? Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 13:02:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun24.9219.0> References: <<199606211851.NAA06645@informixs-bh.na.informix.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: T & M Stained Glass Precedence: bulk In light of some additional postings, I'd like to clarify my position on children doing stained glass. 1. No child should be encouraged or pushed to get involved in any hobby that requires a level of maturity not yet attained. As parents and teachers, it is our responsibility to ensure that the child has respect for the relative dangers of stained glass before embarking on such an activity. 2. EVERYONE must be properly educated about the hazards of working with these materials and must always seek more definitive understanding of these dangers. (I never knew that some patinas emitted hydrogen sulfide. And I'm a chemist! Consider me corrected and educated.) 3. It is my opinion (and there are those who disagree) that materials subsitution is wrong for a child who is serious sbout continuing. Perhaps, at first, the less hazardous materials should be used, until the child has developed the required dexterity. But once the instructor is comfortable with the child's understanding of the hazards of using the materials, the child should be allowed to use them. 4. SUPERVSION, 100% of the time!! This cannot be emphasized enough. Any child who embarks on learning stained glass, MUST be supervised by an adult who KNOWS that hazards and can recognize hazardous behaviors and habits. Ultimately, knowing the hazards and how to properly handle them is far more effective than hiding the hazards. Just my two cents... Matt McDonnell -- T & M Stained Glass - http://www.stained-glass.com Future home of the Stained Glass Marketplace Visit soon, visit often. send inquiries to mailto:webmaster@stained-glass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 24 20:58:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYPF5-0000Eya; Mon, 24 Jun 96 20:56 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Postscript to safe for kids? Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 23:57:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun24.195713.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello Theresa: I have only been doing glass for a few months myself. From my experience, the initial setup costs will run (retail) about $450 - $600+. I would also suggest that you consider buying a diamond headed grinder to smooth the edges of the glass. It will make the process much more enjoyable and also, give you a better finished product. You will need a soldering iron. They range in wattage from 80 to 100 watts. You will also need some way to control the amout of heat that the iron produces. A rheostat can also be purchased to accomplish this. You will need a good glass cutter. Try a few different types (stick,pistol) at you local glass shop to see which one you prefer. Your glass shop can give you info as to what other tooling that you will need. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Someone here will be more than happy to answer. Enjoy... Michael & Donna McGrew Shattered Images Houston,Tx. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 24 22:30:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYQgI-0000Nsa; Mon, 24 Jun 96 22:28 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: safe for kids? Date: 25 Jun 96 01:26:41 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun25.52641.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>1. No child should be encouraged or pushed to get involved in any hobby >>that requires a level of maturity not yet attained. As parents and >>teachers, it is our responsibility to ensure that the child has respect >>for the relative dangers of stained glass before embarking on such an >>activity.<< As parents, you have more options, but as teachers, you had better consider some of the legal cases that have established that a child should not be exposed to toxic materials or dangerous processes until they can be expected to **understand the hazards of materials and be expected to carry out precautions effectively and consistently.** Most psychologists and educators will testify that this can be expected of children somewhere around age 12 or 13. This principle was further solidified in 1992 when the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission published a Safety Alert on art materials. This alert states that children in grade six and under should not work with any art or craft material which carries any hazard warnings--including "keep out of reach of children" or "use with adult supervision." One of the products specifically mentioned as inappropriate was lead ceramic glaze. If a teacher decides on her/his own that lead solders (which all carry hazard warnings) are OK for an eight year old, and if there is a problem of any kind and the parent decides to sue the teacher--one of the "expert opinions" on the parent's side is the opinion of the Consumer Product Safety Commission. I hate to be a spoil-sport, but the fact is that anyone teaching children younger than 12 or 13 with any kind of hazard-labeled materials is out on a legal limb. >>2. EVERYONE must be properly educated about the hazards of working with >>these materials and must always seek more definitive understanding of >>these dangers. (I never knew that some patinas emitted hydrogen sulfide. >>And I'm a chemist! Consider me corrected and educated.)<< If full-grown adults can find themselves lacking in information about hazards, how can we expect a child to be informed and educated. >>3. It is my opinion (and there are those who disagree) that materials >>subsitution is wrong for a child who is serious sbout continuing. >>Perhaps, at first, the less hazardous materials should be used, until >>the child has developed the required dexterity. But once the instructor >>is comfortable with the child's understanding of the hazards of using >>the materials, the child should be allowed to use them. As I pointed out, teachers that take this decision upon themselves, also take the liability for that decision upon themselves. They also do so in direct opposition to the opinion of experts and a federal Agency. >>4. SUPERVSION, 100% of the time!! This cannot be emphasized enough. >>Any child who embarks on learning stained glass, MUST be supervised by >>an adult who KNOWS that hazards and can recognize hazardous behaviors >>and habits.<< This is why the Consumer Product Safety Commission's alert includes as an example the hazard label "use with adult supervision." If anyone would like a copy of the 1992 Consumer Product Safety Commission Safety Alert--which also applies to nursing home residents and hospital patients--I will send you one if you leave your snail address in my e-mail. Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist ACTS 181 Thompson St., #23 NYC, NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 24 22:30:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYQgI-0000d9a; Mon, 24 Jun 96 22:28 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: safe for kids Date: 25 Jun 96 01:26:06 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun25.5266.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>You said, >>Ain't no such. If you are on this planet, you have a lead count.<< >Absolutely correct. I should have said I "passed" my levels were >"acceptable"< But what was the number of micrograms? That and the average levels from the area in which you live will indicate if you are getting a contribution from your work or not. >>You said, >>Lead begins to vaporize the moment it melts. >True, but it solidifies almost instantly in a s.g. application, so I really >don't think that's an issue compared to lets say a wave solder machine in an >electronics plant.< But in the electronics plants, now, there are local ventilation systems in place. In s.g., the solder is liquid long enough to be significant under certain circumstances--especially if you work at home where you live long hours with the fume. >>Yes Monona, I guess I'll have to, stained glass is my life work, and if >>losing some brain cells along the way goes with the territory so be it.<< Its not a matter of giving it up, its a matter of investing money in ventilation equipment and time good hygiene. >>I appreciate the constructive criticism (it wasen't a flame was it?)<< Nah. >>Oh BTW, what the heck is an alter kucker Doctor? << A very disrespectful way of saying the doc is an old foggie, set in his ways. Also a term used to find out if there is anyone else on the forum who came from the same background I did. Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist ACTS 181 Thompson St., # 23 New York, NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 24 22:31:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYQgI-0000apa; Mon, 24 Jun 96 22:28 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: what about the fume trap Date: 25 Jun 96 01:25:58 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun25.52558.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mary wrote: >>My mentor just got one of the portable units and is using it religiously. >>Is she spinning her wheels? Or will this really keep some lead out of our >>systems?<< It depends on a number of things: 1) Can the filter capture fume particles? To do this is should be a HEPA (high efficiency particulate air) filter capable of capturing 99.995% of particles of a diameter of 0.3 microns. This information should be in the unit's manual. 2) does it draw strongly enough to capture the air right above where you solder. To test this, light some incense and see if the smoke is drawn firmly away from the point at which you will be soldering. It is particularly difficult to draw properly from the middle of large jobs. The best types have flexible ducts with hoods at the end so you can position them right near your work. 3) does the air stream from the exhaust interfere with capture? I have seen some units that are box-shaped and the exhaust blows out just above the intake. This means that the turbulence created will interfere with proper capture. If the unit is just sitting somewhere near where the work is being done and filtering the air, it is pretty much useless. But there are some excellent units around that were originally designed for the electronics industry. These are worth the money. And the two major manufacturers, Nederman and Torit just merged. Nederman is at 24719 Crestview Court, Framington Hills, MI 48018 Phone 313/478-5702. Those who are interested can talk to them and get product information or a catalog. Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist ACTS 181 Thompson St., #23 NYC 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 25 04:46:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYWZm-0000QTa; Tue, 25 Jun 96 04:46 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Glsslizard From: Glsslizard@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: safe for kids? Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:47:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun25.3476.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I agree with all of the previous postings about safety. You can't work around stained glass for long without getting cut, getting a glass splinter, or burning yourself with hot solder - no matter how careful you are. As far as supplies go, some of the catalogs sell "start-up kits" in low, medium and high-priced sets. That is what I did when I got started. It includes the basic supplies that you need, as well as some sample glass. As far as patterns go, a quilting pattern makes a good beginning panel. Most of the cuts are straight, and the shapes are simple. You can pick up a quilting pattern book at most any sewing/craft shop. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 25 07:41:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYZId-0000XRa; Tue, 25 Jun 96 07:41 PDT X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Subject: same background Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 09:38:11 -0500 Message-ID: <199606251438.JAA05500@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Monona, Received direct E-mail from a list member who clued me in on the *literal* translation from Yiddish of alter kucker...I will keep it to myself... this is a family channel (chuckle) after all. I do not share the same exact background as you but as an expatriate New Yorker who went to Brooklyn Tech H.S. I know our backgrounds have been stirred together in the same pot, like on the *GG* maybe? Enjoy your glass work Len NEWS FLASH!!!!! I just heard that cheap imported mini-blinds are contaminated with lead......boy oh boy, this planet is getting turned into one giant crap pile ain't it ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 25 19:11:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYk4c-0000Uia; Tue, 25 Jun 96 19:11 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: same background Date: 25 Jun 96 22:10:20 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun26.21020.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>Received direct E-mail from a list member who clued me in on the *literal* >>translation from Yiddish of alter kucker...<< Ah, studying languages can be so uplifting. >>I do not share the same exact background as you but as an expatriate New >>Yorker who went to Brooklyn Tech H.S. I know our backgrounds have been >>stirred together in the same pot, like on the *GG* maybe? << Nope. I was a professional entertainer as a child. We had a residence in Wisconsin and our booking agency was in Chicago. >>NEWS FLASH!!!!! I just heard that cheap imported mini-blinds are >>contaminated with lead......boy oh boy, this planet is getting turned into >>one giant crap pile ain't it<< I had my newsletter article on this written weeks ago thanks to my spies at the CPSC. What amazes me is that no one asks simple questions--like **Why is lead in the plastic?** It turns out that it is an excellent heat-light stabilizer. Lead is also used as an opacifier and filler. In fact, there are lots of plastic materials that are laced with lead. **What will they replace lead with?** This is scary. Some manufacturers are going to use organic tin compounds some of which are even more toxic. Some are going to change formulations without telling anyone what they will be using. **How is CPSC going to ensure that the new plastics aren't as dangerous?** They aren't. They are not even allowed by Congress to premarket test products. The bottom line is: the cost of fixing this booboo falls on the individual consumers who are told to throw out their blinds. Industry will not be charged a dime when consumers dump millions of pounds of their lead blinds in our land fills. Industry will make money because consumers must now buy more blinds. There is no guarantee that the new blinds will be safer. ANd if they are not, and if CPSC finds out, industry just gets another chance to shtup us again! See anything the least unfair in this situation? Monona ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 25 20:34:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYlMq-0000gga; Tue, 25 Jun 96 20:34 PDT X-Path: nz1.netzone.com!lorley From: "Lorley L. Oneyear" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Light Box The Sequel Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 20:42:47 -0600 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960626024247.0068e46c@mail.netzone.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Michale McGrue..Thanks for the info on your light box. My 80 year old neighbor has volunteered to make me a light box in exchange for my homemade cookies and cheesecakes. I am still thinking about using the morton gridded top but turning it upside down. I can use the smooth surface to cut on and flip it over when I want to use the gridded side. Does anyone see problems w/ using the plastic morton board?? Will it scratch or get rough?? Or be strong enough to cut on?? If not I'll just have a sheet of glass cut to fit that same size.. I am going to ask him to build it on casters and build in a couple of cubby holes in the bottom to hold sheets of glass. My work table is approx 36" high so if he makes it 34" high I will be able to push it underneath my work table and keep it out of the way when not using it. Will 34" be a comfortable height for me to cut my glass. I'm approx 5'4 .. Bye for now.. Always listening..sometimes participating..Thanks Lorley In Arizona ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 25 23:52:12 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYoS1-0000CUa; Tue, 25 Jun 96 23:51 PDT X-Path: mbay.net!drno From: "Joseph D. Noble" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: News memo (RANT) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 23:50:43 -0700 Message-ID: <199606260650.XAA18229@otter.mbay.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Incidentally, thanks for the supportive comments. I/we are interested in >passing along as much solid info as possible and try to keep our "recruiting" >to a bare minimum; just a single line at the bottom pointing out that >membership is available. It's true that membership dues underwrite the >Guild's projects, but nobody's salaried or paid in any way/shape/form. I'm >the only so-called "employee," but I'm a dollar-a-year man and after three >years with the Guild have yet to see dollar one. What actually happens >is that I shell out many shekels of my own every month, my wife's office >underwrites all of the phone/online costs, plus most of the office supplies, >and I spend 20-30 hours a week of my own time on Guild projects. Why? >Habit: I've been doing this kind of thing (sharing of information on glass) >since 1972. Why stop now? > >Albert Please don't stop now Albert. I think you are doing a great job and I for one greatly appreciate it. Thank you. David DR NO Monterey, CA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 26 04:12:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYsVz-0000Fqa; Wed, 26 Jun 96 04:12 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: News memo (RANT) Date: 26 Jun 96 07:10:49 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun26.111049.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Please don't stop now Albert. I think you are doing a great job and I >for one greatly appreciate it. Thank you. No, thank *you, doctor! I appreciate the vote of confidence, since that's the only form of payment that counts with me. I've been quiet lately because I've been putting together the newest issue of Common Ground: GLASS. I should say I've put it together three times, thanks to some glitchy software that moves all of the captions around to the wrong places and I've had to re-do all of them twice. Or all of the photographs disappear and I have to re-boot to get them back. This software's (Corel Ventura Publisher, if you wanna know) going to make me soft in the head! But the issue's going to be very nice, I think: a bit of a new look for the magazine (well, 44 pages plus cover is largish for a "newsletter," isn't it? Even though that's what it's called). Albert __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 26 07:32:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uYvd0-0000BQa; Wed, 26 Jun 96 07:31 PDT X-Path: netline.net!leestat From: leestat@netline.net (Lee Boe) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Light Box The Sequel Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:35:55 -0400 Message-ID: <199606261435.KAA10063@tesla.netline.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I can use the smooth surface to cut >on and flip it over when I want to use the gridded side. Does anyone see >problems w/ using the plastic morton board?? Will it scratch or get rough?? >Or be strong enough to cut on?? If not I'll just have a sheet of glass cut >to fit that same size.. I am going to ask him to build it on casters and >build in a couple of cubby holes in the bottom to hold sheets of glass. My >work table is approx 36" high so if he makes it 34" high I will be able to >push it underneath my work table and keep it out of the way when not using >it. Will 34" be a comfortable height for me to cut my glass. I'm approx 5'4 .. > >Bye for now.. Always listening..sometimes participating..Thanks >Lorley In Arizona Just a note on the above, use the Morton surface right side (little holes) up, that is what it is designed for. This way it traps the glass slivers as you cut. ( I built my light box this way) I put the pattern on the top, trace the pieces, then remove pattern to cut. Works just great. I have a vacuum right near the work table and vacuum up the slivers every few minutes, using just the hose end. ( It pulls the slivers right out of the little holes, and keeps the work area clean and safer. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 26 15:13:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZ2pM-0000YXa; Wed, 26 Jun 96 15:12 PDT X-Path: p3.net!kre8tiv1 From: kre8tiv1@p3.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: safe for kids Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 18:12:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun26.11126.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I don't think that allowing a child to work with glass has to be an "all or nothing" deal. My daughter is 9 years old and enjoys trying anything creative. She is anxious to try working with glass and I am considering allowing her to trace her original design on the glass and MAYBE foil it once I have cut it. This way, she is still involved and experiencing some of what it is like to handle the glass. And this is what I have to say about that :) Lin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 26 19:23:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZ6js-0000ZMa; Wed, 26 Jun 96 19:23 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: safe for kids? Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 19:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun26.12203.0> References: <<1996Jun25.52641.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk It was mentioned that some patinas emit hydrogen sulfide...can you tell us which ones? Frankly, I admit after reading the warning labels once I have not paid a great deal of attention. I did do litmus testing on fluxes and patinas but nothing lately. Thanks P. Johnsen edupjohn@slonet.org ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 26 21:45:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZ8xQ-0000URa; Wed, 26 Jun 96 21:45 PDT X-Path: pop01.ny.us.ibm.net!steel00 From: Steven Steele To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Light Box The Sequel Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 23:31:48 PDT Message-ID: <1996Jun26.63148.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Michale McGrue..Thanks for the info on your light box. My 80 year old >neighbor has volunteered to make me a light box in exchange for my homemade >cookies and cheesecakes. I am still thinking about using the morton >gridded top but turning it upside down. I can use the smooth surface to cut >on and flip it over when I want to use the gridded side. Does anyone see >problems w/ using the plastic morton board?? Will it scratch or get rough?? >Or be strong enough to cut on?? If not I'll just have a sheet of glass cut >to fit that same size.. I am going to ask him to build it on casters and >build in a couple of cubby holes in the bottom to hold sheets of glass. My >work table is approx 36" high so if he makes it 34" high I will be able to >push it underneath my work table and keep it out of the way when not using >it. Will 34" be a comfortable height for me to cut my glass. I'm approx 5'4 I found some flourescent light covers at the local hardare store that include the grid (same size as Morton's) and an opaque sheet (very similar to Morton's) to build a light table. I set the grid in a recess in the light table frame and the sheet of opaque plastic on top, also held in place by the lip of the recess. With a 2 inch support around the outside it is strong enough to cut on but I find that putting the Morton surface on top makes it better and you still get the backlight. The only problem I noted is the tendency for the plastic-on-plastic surfaces to slip.The old standby of double stick tape fixed that. The best thing about the grid and plastic is that it comes in 2X4 foot sheets which provides flexibility in building a larger-than-Morton light table. Steven ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 27 09:19:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZJmq-0000DHa; Thu, 27 Jun 96 09:19 PDT X-Path: camadm.Camosun.BC.CA!COOPERD From: cooperd@camadm.Camosun.BC.CA To: "GLASS@BUNGI.COM" Subject: Tip of the Week Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun27.2195.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just wanted to mention this tip because I just discovered it myself, I was always having problems with my pattern pieces disintegrating when grinding so I used plastic laminate or mac-tac to cover my pattern before cutting it out, cover both sides of the pattern to make it completely waterproof, it works great! Have fun, Donna ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 27 11:37:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZLvr-0000Ywa; Thu, 27 Jun 96 11:36 PDT X-Path: awinc.com!jthomson From: Juile Thomson To: Stained Glass Mailing List Subject: Some frustrations solved... Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 11:35:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun27.43549.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks all for your hints to solve my glass frustrations. I purchased one of the gold ink pens (fine tip) at a local stationary store at an outrageous price ($5.50 Cdn), but it works great and was WELL worth the money. As a result, my grinding is much more accurate and requires less fitting after the initial grind. I trimmed the wick inside my cutter and it seems to be working fine now. I am also not pressing as hard as I did before and my pieces are breaking nicer now. However, I still need quite a bit of practice with my grozing (spelling??) pliers -- I have never been taught how to properly use them. Finally, I am confident that I can make a Worden lamp, but need to order the catalogue with pictures first. I will start with a small table lamp before proceeding to the hanging lamp. Now, my most recent frustration -- my soldering iron is just awful. When I took my original class last year this iron was included with the cost of the course. We were told that if we decided to continue on in stained glass that we would probably require a better iron... this one was very cheap and good only for a beginner. Well, my solder will just not stay on the tip. We filed the tip and the solder stuck for about a five minute period of usage, but then oxidized again and became useless again. So, now I need to purchase a new soldering iron. I am only a casual hobbiest so don't want to spend major money on it, but I do want one that will have long life and replaceable tips (my current iron is cheap cheap cheap and the tip is permanent). What should I be looking for? Any brand suggestions??? Julie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 27 16:29:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZQUW-0000ava; Thu, 27 Jun 96 16:28 PDT X-Path: c031.aone.net.au!Gordon.Newell From: Gordon.Newell@c031.aone.net.au To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: (was:Some frustrations solved..) Soldering Iron. Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 09:27:38 Message-ID: <199606272328.JAA28376@mail.mel.aone.net.au> References: <<1996Jun27.43549.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In <1996Jun27.43549.0>, on 06/27/96 at 11:35 AM, Juile Thomson said: >Thanks all for your hints to solve my glass frustrations. [edited] >Now, my most recent frustration -- my soldering iron is just awful. >When I took my original class last year this iron was included with the >cost of the course. We were told that if we decided to continue on in >stained glass that we would probably require a better iron... this one >was very cheap and good only for a beginner. Well, my solder will just >not stay on the tip. We filed the tip and the solder stuck for about a >five minute period of usage, but then oxidized again and became useless >again. So, now I need to purchase a new soldering iron. I am only a >casual hobbiest so don't want to spend major money on it, but I do want >one that will have long life and replaceable tips (my current iron is >cheap cheap cheap and the tip is permanent). What should I be looking >for? Any brand suggestions??? Julie I had the same problems. Changed to a Weller WD100 Iron. Has replaceable steel clad temperature controlled tips. Mine came with an 800 degree tip. Changed to a 700 tip (cause I'm not too quick). Great Iron. ~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'-._.-'~ Gordon Newell, Chalcot Micro Systems Telephone: +61 3 9708 0134, Fax: +61 3 9221 3958, Mobile: 041 111 6636 OS/2 is D.E.A.D (Definitely Efficient And Durable) ~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'-._.-'~ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 27 18:46:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZSdJ-0000IKa; Thu, 27 Jun 96 18:46 PDT X-Path: prodigy.com!XLBR14A From: XLBR14A@prodigy.com ( ROBERT A SIGMON) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Some frustrations solved... Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 21:38:15, -0500 Message-ID: <199606280138.VAA15974@mime3.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk JULIE I AM SURE THAT A NEW IRON IS WELL WORTH THE INVESTMENT, EVEN AS A CASUAL HOBBYIST. TO KEEP THE TIP PROPERLY TINNED, I USED A CHEMICAL BLOCK CALLED "SAL AMMONIAC" BY L.B. ALLEN. I GOT IT AT MY LOCAL S.G. SHOP. IT LASTS FOREVER. IT REALLY HELPS THE SOLDER TO FLOW OFF THE IRON ON TO YOUR WORK GOOD LUCK BOB ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 27 19:42:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZTUy-0000Hra; Thu, 27 Jun 96 19:41 PDT X-Path: compuserve.com!104444.3177 From: Allen & Karen Green <104444.3177@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:glass@BUNGI.COM" Subject: Tip of the Week Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:40:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun27.184054.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk how does one cut thru the laminate with pattern shears? It seems to me that it would not cut clean because of the added thickness? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 27 19:42:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZTVV-0000aZa; Thu, 27 Jun 96 19:42 PDT X-Path: compuserve.com!104444.3177 From: Allen & Karen Green <104444.3177@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:glass@BUNGI.COM" Subject: Alter Kucker Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:41:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun27.184137.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I believe the word you want is 'alter cocker'. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 27 22:27:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZW4X-0000S4a; Thu, 27 Jun 96 22:26 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Some frustrations solved Date: 28 Jun 96 01:24:25 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun28.52425.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>TO KEEP THE TIP PROPERLY TINNED, I USED A CHEMICAL >>BLOCK CALLED "SAL AMMONIAC" BY L.B. ALLEN. I GOT IT AT MY LOCAL S.G. >>SHOP. IT LASTS FOREVER. IT REALLY HELPS THE SOLDER TO FLOW OFF THE >>IRON ON TO YOUR WORK<< Let me just tell you why it works. Sal ammoniac is ammonium chloride, NH4Cl. when it get hot, some of it just goes up in a fume that looks like smoke and some of it splits apart into ammonia and hydrochloric acid. That'll clear your throat. Use some ventilation. Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist ACTS 181 Thompson St., # 23 NYC 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 27 22:27:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZW4d-0000TPa; Thu, 27 Jun 96 22:26 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: patina off-gas Date: 28 Jun 96 01:23:57 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun28.52357.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>It was mentioned that some patinas emit hydrogen sulfide...can you tell us >>which ones?<< Patinas are generally of two types: 1) those that react with the metal surface to form metal compounds such as sulfides or oxides, and 2) those which dissolve metal from the metal surface and replace it with a different metal deposited from the patina chemicals. Potassium sulfide and sodium sulfide are commonly used to darken metal and they release hydrogen sulfide gas which can be identified by its "rotten egg" odor. Anytime you read a patina MSDS and see it contains a "sulfide" you will probably get the hydrogen sulfide odor. Copper sulfate + acid solutions give off sulfur dioxide during use. Selenium-containing patinas may release hydrogen selenide gas. And now I know about tellurium + acid patinas that can release tellurium chloride which smells garlicky. >>Frankly, I admit after reading the warning labels once I have >>not paid a great deal of attention.<< Forget the labels. Get the MSDS on all patinas. >>I did do litmus testing on fluxes and patinas but nothing lately.<< That will only identify whether or not it is acidic, but it tells you nothing about what will be released when it reacts with the metal. Hope this helps. Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety 181 Thompson St., # 23 NYC 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 27 22:27:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZW4l-0000ERa; Thu, 27 Jun 96 22:26 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Alter Kucker Date: 28 Jun 96 01:24:21 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun28.52421.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>I believe the word you want is 'alter cocker'.<< That's the way I've always pronounced it, too. So when I wrote the message I consulted my Yiddish/English dictionary to be absolutely sure. Instead, it was spelled Alter Kucker, said it is taboo and why. Not a pretty story. We are never too alter to learn. Monona ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 01:46:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZZBz-0000aMa; Fri, 28 Jun 96 01:46 PDT X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Some frustrations solved... Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:47:01 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <9606280847.AA23626@crosfield.co.uk> References: <<1996Jun27.43549.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > So, now I need to purchase a new soldering iron. I am only a > casual hobbiest so don't want to spend major money on it, but I do want > one that will have long life and replaceable tips (my current iron is > cheap cheap cheap and the tip is permanent). What should I be looking > for? Any brand suggestions??? I'm happy with my Weller 100W thermostatic iron :-). The tips are replaceable, and control the temperature - so you get more consistent behaviour. I can also recommend a tip cleaner - it's a small (roughly coin sized) tin filled with a metallic grey block of (I believe) solder particles and flux, that you can stick to your soldering iron stand - just dip the tip in when it gets a bit gungy and it cleans and retins it a treat. I think it's an Ersin(?) Multicore product called a 'tip tinner' or 'tip cleaner'. (I assume the usual comments about fumes apply :-) ). -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 03:11:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZaVA-0000CIa; Fri, 28 Jun 96 03:10 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: The Guild "Grows Up" Date: 28 Jun 96 06:05:25 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun28.10525.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Those of you here who plumped for Guild membership dues being payable by credit card will be glad to know that the Board of Directors has seen fit and taken action to accept them. Gosh, we're just like the "big boys" now, credit cards and all! AMEX, Visa, MasterCard and Discover. I've been reading here, but not saying much, because my time's been being spent getting the next issue of the newsletter together. It's going to be very nice, if I say so myself (and I do). Our usual printer in Poughkeepsie is continuing his usual 50% discount on printing, which is nice news, and the print files are off to him today. Great glass in this issue ... some terrific stained glass portraits, very fancy flamework, and I packed and squeezed and pushed and pulled to pack in as much info as could be jammed into the pages and still be graphically handsome as well as readable. I think you're going to like this issue a lot! Then I spent the day yesterday putting together an information piece about the Guild that will replace the sebbenty-lebben pages that previously have been stuffed into a single envelope and mailed to inquiring minds at 55 cents US postage. This 11x17 will fold down to 5.5x8.5 and mail without an envelope, thus saving me a lot of work printing and folding individual pages, as well as saving the cost of the envelope and reducing the postage to 32c. It's a 39Mb file, though, what will all the photos included in it, so it takes a couple of hours to print out the negatives. If you'd like information about the Guild, email me your street address and I'll put one of these in the mail sometime next week as soon as it's off the press. __________________________________________ Albert Lewis Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. __________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 03:11:25 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZaVA-0000Ura; Fri, 28 Jun 96 03:10 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642 From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Alter Kucker Date: 28 Jun 96 06:05:18 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun28.10518.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >... I consulted my Yiddish/English dictionary to be absolutely sure. >Instead, it was spelled Alter Kucker, said it is taboo and why. Not a >pretty story. We are never too alter to learn. Monona, Yiddish is a wonderfully poetic language, like ours a collection of words from all over, which when spoken dances and gyrates and laughs and cries. Because I speak German, I can understand a lot of it, or at least get the gist of what's being said, but I do love to hear it spoken. Albert, "altered" beyond his ability to believe ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 05:40:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZcpY-0000Tca; Fri, 28 Jun 96 05:39 PDT X-Path: intran.xerox.com!liz From: liz@intran.xerox.com (Liz Lynch) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: patina off-gas Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 05:43:00 PDT Message-ID: <9606281243.AA00378@moose.intran.xerox.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Monona; in your last email you twice mentioned "MSDS"...whatsit? Interesting stuff! Thanks for the education that is badly needed by me. Liz. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 06:12:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZdKq-0000Sza; Fri, 28 Jun 96 06:11 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Some frustrations solved... Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:10:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun28.51052.0> References: <<1996Jun27.43549.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Juile Thomson wrote: > > Thanks all for your hints to solve my glass frustrations. > > I purchased one of the gold ink pens (fine tip) at a local stationary > store at an outrageous price ($5.50 Cdn), but it works great and was > WELL worth the money. As a result, my grinding is much more accurate > and requires less fitting after the initial grind. > > I trimmed the wick inside my cutter and it seems to be working fine now. > I am also not pressing as hard as I did before and my pieces are > breaking nicer now. However, I still need quite a bit of practice with > my grozing (spelling??) pliers -- I have never been taught how to > properly use them. > > Finally, I am confident that I can make a Worden lamp, but need to order > the catalogue with pictures first. I will start with a small table lamp > before proceeding to the hanging lamp. > > Now, my most recent frustration -- my soldering iron is just awful. > When I took my original class last year this iron was included with the > cost of the course. We were told that if we decided to continue on in > stained glass that we would probably require a better iron... this one > was very cheap and good only for a beginner. Well, my solder will just > not stay on the tip. We filed the tip and the solder stuck for about a > five minute period of usage, but then oxidized again and became useless > again. So, now I need to purchase a new soldering iron. I am only a > casual hobbiest so don't want to spend major money on it, but I do want > one that will have long life and replaceable tips (my current iron is > cheap cheap cheap and the tip is permanent). What should I be looking > for? Any brand suggestions??? > > Julie > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Julie, For you grozing problems, hold your pliers upside down as in, instead of holding it with the curved side up, hold it with the curved side down (combination pliers) and then take the little bit of glass you want to remove, pinch down and break it off. This will chip off little bits of glass, it's kinda hard to explain, ask your local stained glass store to show you. for a soldering iron, for the longest time now I've like the ungar, but I'm staring to hate it for a number of reasons. the next iron I'll probably get is an inland insta-heat. it looks like a good iron, but I'll still have to think about it. have you tinned your iron yet, using a sal ammoniac block? it sounds like you didn't, first try tinning your old iron, but when you do buy new, this is the first thing that should be done to the tip. BTW if you get a regular iron look for an iron in the 80-100w range. That should give you enough power to get through your projects. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 06:23:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZdV3-0000aBa; Fri, 28 Jun 96 06:22 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: patina off-gas Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:21:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun28.52129.0> References: <<9606281243.AA00378@moose.intran.xerox.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Liz Lynch wrote: > > Monona; in your last email you twice mentioned "MSDS"...whatsit? > > Interesting stuff! Thanks for the education that is badly needed by me. > > Liz. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass MSDS stands for Material Saftey Data Sheet. every chemical and product should have one. the expalin the chemicals used inside the product, and the exposure limit you should have with it. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 07:21:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZePk-0000T8a; Fri, 28 Jun 96 07:20 PDT X-Path: stained-glass.com!webmaster From: Matt McDonnell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: MSDS Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:20:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun28.6205.0> References: <<9606281243.AA00378@moose.intran.xerox.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: T & M Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Liz: MSDS is a Material Safety Data Sheet. As it's name would imply, it contains information abouts the ingredients and the hazards of a particular product. Although the contents of the MSDS must follow OSHA guidelines, some manufacturers are better than others at providing the information. You should be able to get copies of MSDS's where you purchased the product (it's the law). Some manufacturers even include it in their packaging (usually about 3-4 pages). It's a very good idea to keep a file of all the MSDSs for all the products that you use. If you employ anyone, you MUST have these available. MSDS's are best when used to determine what protective equipment, clothing to use as well as how to respond to an exposure or fire. And there's a lot more. Matt McDonnell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 08:42:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZfg4-0000Dta; Fri, 28 Jun 96 08:41 PDT X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: patina off-gas Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun28.13916.0> References: <<9606281243.AA00378@moose.intran.xerox.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk MSDS stands for Material Safety Data Sheets. These are usually available only upon request from the manufactures. I have never found MSDS info available at my corner SG store. Is this something that we can expect to have to produce in the future. It would appear that all of the safety measures being enforced against stained glass is going to make it more difficult for people to enjoy a hobby that is no worse than other in terms of its hazards and capability to do harm to reckless individuals. How many people are on workmans comp because of stained glass? I am the first to recommend safety; however, are we not going overboard in having Big Bro protect us from ourselves? P. Johnsen (edupjohn@slonet.org). On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Liz Lynch wrote: > > Monona; in your last email you twice mentioned "MSDS"...whatsit? > > Interesting stuff! Thanks for the education that is badly needed by me. > > Liz. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 09:00:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZfy0-0000Uxa; Fri, 28 Jun 96 09:00 PDT X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop From: Guitarshop@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Guild "Grows Up" Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:00:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun28.8011.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello Albert: We just received our packet this week in the mail. Thanks. Also, whenever I receive an e-mail from you, most all of the text is "struck-through". It is still legible, but yours is the only one that looks this way. Is it a problem at you end or mine?? Michael. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 09:19:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZgGU-0000SJa; Fri, 28 Jun 96 09:19 PDT X-Path: camadm.Camosun.BC.CA!COOPERD From: cooperd@camadm.Camosun.BC.CA To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Tip of the Week Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun28.21912.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Jun 1996, Allen & Karen Green wrote: > how does one cut thru the laminate with pattern shears? It seems to me that > it would not cut clean because of the added thickness? > > ----If you are using patten shears I would suggest that you cut the pattern out first then laminate, I don't use pattern shears so this didn't occur to me, anyway you could also use the laminate just to cover your original so it doesn't get wet. I think I will try the gold pen it might save time. Cheers!! Donna!> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 09:47:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZghI-0000Xya; Fri, 28 Jun 96 09:47 PDT X-Path: stained-glass.com!webmaster From: Matt McDonnell To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: patina off-gas Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:46:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun28.84641.0> References: <<1996Jun28.13916.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: T & M Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Peggy W. Johnsen wrote: > > MSDS stands for Material Safety Data Sheets. These are usually available > only upon request from the manufactures. I have never found MSDS info > available at my corner SG store. Is this something that we can expect to > have to produce in the future. It would appear that all of the safety > measures being enforced against stained glass is going to make it more > difficult for people to enjoy a hobby that is no worse than other in terms > of its hazards and capability to do harm to reckless individuals. > > How many people are on workmans comp because of stained glass? I am the > first to recommend safety; however, are we not going overboard in having > Big Bro protect us from ourselves? P. Johnsen (edupjohn@slonet.org). > Probably, but best to err on the side of safety. You should request that your supplier ship MSDS's with each shipment. Ultimately, it is the manufacturer's responsibility to create and provide the MSDS, but the responsibility of providing them also trickles down to distributors and, I think, retailers. I bet Monona can clear some of this up. I haven't been doing this stuff for a while and it's beginning to get a little foggy. Matt McDonnell -- T & M Stained Glass - http://www.stained-glass.com Future home of the Stained Glass Marketplace Visit soon, visit often. send inquiries to mailto:webmaster@stained-glass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 13:09:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZjpC-0000bPa; Fri, 28 Jun 96 13:07 PDT X-Path: awinc.com!jthomson From: Juile Thomson To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Some frustrations solved... Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:07:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun28.675.0> References: <<1996Jun28.51052.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike Savad wrote: > have you tinned your iron yet, using > a sal ammoniac block? it sounds like you didn't, first try tinning your > old iron, but when you do buy new, this is the first thing that should > be done to the tip. Thanks for the "tip" (ha ha), Mike. I had put in an order to "The Glass Place" this morning and immediately called back to add on a Sal Ammoniac block when I read your note. I had not been previously aware of these blocks. Unfortunately, my order had already gone out the door :-(.... FORTUNATELY, I was told that they will send it out to me, without the usual minimum charge! :-) Thanks again!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 20:08:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZqNL-0000i0a; Fri, 28 Jun 96 20:07 PDT X-Path: CompuServe.COM!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: patina off-gas Date: 28 Jun 96 23:05:16 EDT Message-ID: <1996Jun29.3516.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> in your last email you twice mentioned "MSDS"...whatsit?<< Material Safety Data Sheet. Available from manufacturers on request if you are just a "consumer" and on demand if you use the product on the job as an employer or employee. OSHA requires that all employers make MSDSs on all products used on the job that are in anyway potentially hazardous be readily available to all workers during all working hours. In addition, OSHA requires employers to train their employees to understand them. This training it required, then, for all employed teachers of stained glass in schools, universities, etc., and they, in turn, should make this training part of the curriculum for students. >>Interesting stuff! << Glad you think so. Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist ACTS 181 Thompson St., # 23 NYC 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 20:10:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZqPJ-0000PYa; Fri, 28 Jun 96 20:09 PDT X-Path: juno.com!diamonds From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Guild "Grows Up" Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 21:50:23 PST Message-ID: <1996Jun29.55023.0> References: <<1996Jun28.10525.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'd like to be on your mailing list if possible Mary Austin at diamonds@juno.com 801 Merry Ln. Grwd.,IN 46142 Thanks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 20:44:01 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZqw1-0000SWa; Fri, 28 Jun 96 20:43 PDT X-Path: aol.com!FStryczek From: FStryczek@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: S.G. Show in Chicago? Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:42:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun28.194252.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am a stained glass hobbyist, and about 10 or 12 years ago, I attended a "Stained Glass International" show here in the Chicago area, but haven't seen one advertised since. I really enjoyed it and would like to attend another. Does anyone know of such a show/convention like it planned for the Chicago area where hobbyists are welcome? F. Stryczek, Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 28 22:21:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uZsSv-0000a5a; Fri, 28 Jun 96 22:21 PDT X-Path: odc.net!arowhead From: Robert Burmester To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: (was:Some frustrations solved..) Soldering Iron. Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:20:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun27.152054.0> References: <<199606272328.JAA28376@mail.mel.aone.net.au>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Digital Odyssey Internet Services Precedence: bulk Gordon.Newell@c031.aone.net.au wrote: > > In <1996Jun27.43549.0>, on 06/27/96 at 11:35 AM, > Juile Thomson said: > > >Thanks all for your hints to solve my glass frustrations. > > [edited] > > >Now, my most recent frustration -- my soldering iron is just awful. > >When I took my original class last year this iron was included with the > >cost of the course. We were told that if we decided to continue on in > >stained glass that we would probably require a better iron... this one > >was very cheap and good only for a beginner. Well, my solder will just > >not stay on the tip. We filed the tip and the solder stuck for about a > >five minute period of usage, but then oxidized again and became useless > >again. So, now I need to purchase a new soldering iron. I am only a > >casual hobbiest so don't want to spend major money on it, but I do want > >one that will have long life and replaceable tips (my current iron is > >cheap cheap cheap and the tip is permanent). What should I be looking > >for? Any brand suggestions??? > > Julie > > I had the same problems. Changed to a Weller WD100 Iron. Has replaceable > steel clad temperature controlled tips. Mine came with an 800 degree tip. > Changed to a 700 tip (cause I'm not too quick). Great Iron. > > ~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'-._.-'~> Gordon Newell, Chalcot Micro Systems > Telephone: +61 3 9708 0134, Fax: +61 3 9221 3958, Mobile: 041 111 6636 > OS/2 is D.E.A.D (Definitely Efficient And Durable) > ~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'-._.-'~> > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassJulie, Suggest you try the Hakko 456 iron. The only iron I know of on the market that has the heating element inside the tip. Enables this 60 watt iron to outperform most 100 watt irons. In addition, quality is excellent. We use them in our studio exclusively. This iron runs at 1000 degrees so you will need a temperature control especially if you work with lead came. I prefer the added flexibility of a temperature control versus using differnt tips to control temperatue as with the weller 100. It's much easier to change temperature by turning a knob versus removing and replacing ( a hot ) tip. Since we work mostly with lead came, I have found that a temperature of 650 degrees gives us the best result. I personally like the ability to precisely control the iron's temperature ( rather than to the nearest 100 degrees. On copper foil, brass and zinc came I like to work at full throttle (1000 degrees) so I need only turn the knob all the way up. I don't beleive the Weller will get over 800 degrees. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 29 08:20:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ua1oQ-0000AXa; Sat, 29 Jun 96 08:19 PDT X-Path: Wittenberg.EDU!CUTLER From: CUTLER@Wittenberg.EDU To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Subject: tiffany lamp exhibit Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 11:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1996Jun29.71945.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, all. I have been in Chattanooga,TN doing work-related stuff. To my surprise and delight I discovered the Tiffany Lamp exhibit at the Houston (I think that is the name of the place) Museum in Chat. It is a beautifully presented display of part of a collection of Tiffany lamps. I'm sorry I dfon't have the brochure in front of me to be more specific. Just a note to urge anyone nearby to go see it. It will be there until early september. Cutler ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 29 13:05:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ua6G6-000021a; Sat, 29 Jun 96 13:04 PDT X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: (was:Some frustrations solved..) Soldering Iron. Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:03:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun29.12349.0> References: <<1996Jun27.152054.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Robert Burmester wrote: > > Gordon.Newell@c031.aone.net.au wrote: > > > > In <1996Jun27.43549.0>, on 06/27/96 at 11:35 AM, > > Juile Thomson said: > > > > >Thanks all for your hints to solve my glass frustrations. > > > > [edited] > > > > >Now, my most recent frustration -- my soldering iron is just awful. > > >When I took my original class last year this iron was included with the > > >cost of the course. We were told that if we decided to continue on in > > >stained glass that we would probably require a better iron... this one > > >was very cheap and good only for a beginner. Well, my solder will just > > >not stay on the tip. We filed the tip and the solder stuck for about a > > >five minute period of usage, but then oxidized again and became useless > > >again. So, now I need to purchase a new soldering iron. I am only a > > >casual hobbiest so don't want to spend major money on it, but I do want > > >one that will have long life and replaceable tips (my current iron is > > >cheap cheap cheap and the tip is permanent). What should I be looking > > >for? Any brand suggestions??? > > > > Julie > > > > I had the same problems. Changed to a Weller WD100 Iron. Has replaceable > > steel clad temperature controlled tips. Mine came with an 800 degree tip. > > Changed to a 700 tip (cause I'm not too quick). Great Iron. > > > > ~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'-._.-'~> Gordon Newell, Chalcot Micro Systems > > Telephone: +61 3 9708 0134, Fax: +61 3 9221 3958, Mobile: 041 111 6636 > > OS/2 is D.E.A.D (Definitely Efficient And Durable) > > ~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'-._.-'~> > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassJulie, > > Suggest you try the Hakko 456 iron. The only iron I know of on the market that has the > heating element inside the tip. Enables this 60 watt iron to outperform most 100 watt > irons. In addition, quality is excellent. We use them in our studio exclusively. This > iron runs at 1000 degrees so you will need a temperature control especially if you work > with lead came. I prefer the added flexibility of a temperature control versus using > differnt tips to control temperatue as with the weller 100. It's much easier to change > temperature by turning a knob versus removing and replacing ( a hot ) tip. > > Since we work mostly with lead came, I have found that a temperature of 650 degrees > gives us the best result. I personally like the ability to precisely control the iron's > temperature ( rather than to the nearest 100 degrees. > > On copper foil, brass and zinc came I like to work at full throttle (1000 degrees) so I > need only turn the knob all the way up. I don't beleive the Weller will get over 800 > degrees. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass How much do the tips of the hakko cost? I have an unger another built in heater and the professional tip cost around $45. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 29 17:20:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uaAEp-000033a; Sat, 29 Jun 96 17:19 PDT X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Alter Kucker Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 20:20:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1996Jun29.162045.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I think someone should enlighten the rest of us. What does this mean? Barbara ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 30 17:56:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uaXHh-0000CIa; Sun, 30 Jun 96 17:56 PDT X-Path: odc.net!arowhead From: Robert Burmester To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: (was:Some frustrations solved..) Soldering Iron. Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 17:55:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1996Jun29.105537.0> References: <<1996Jun29.12349.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Digital Odyssey Internet Services Precedence: bulk M. Savad wrote: > > Robert Burmester wrote: > > > > Gordon.Newell@c031.aone.net.au wrote: > > > > > > In <1996Jun27.43549.0>, on 06/27/96 at 11:35 AM, > > > Juile Thomson said: > > > > > > >Thanks all for your hints to solve my glass frustrations. > > > > > > [edited] > > > > > > >Now, my most recent frustration -- my soldering iron is just awful. > > > >When I took my original class last year this iron was included with the > > > >cost of the course. We were told that if we decided to continue on in > > > >stained glass that we would probably require a better iron... this one > > > >was very cheap and good only for a beginner. Well, my solder will just > > > >not stay on the tip. We filed the tip and the solder stuck for about a > > > >five minute period of usage, but then oxidized again and became useless > > > >again. So, now I need to purchase a new soldering iron. I am only a > > > >casual hobbiest so don't want to spend major money on it, but I do want > > > >one that will have long life and replaceable tips (my current iron is > > > >cheap cheap cheap and the tip is permanent). What should I be looking > > > >for? Any brand suggestions??? > > > > > > Julie > > > > > > I had the same problems. Changed to a Weller WD100 Iron. Has replaceable > > > steel clad temperature controlled tips. Mine came with an 800 degree tip. > > > Changed to a 700 tip (cause I'm not too quick). Great Iron. > > > > > > ~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'-._.-'~> Gordon Newell, Chalcot Micro Systems > > > Telephone: +61 3 9708 0134, Fax: +61 3 9221 3958, Mobile: 041 111 6636 > > > OS/2 is D.E.A.D (Definitely Efficient And Durable) > > > ~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'~'-._.-'-._.-'~> > > > ---- > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassJulie, > > > > Suggest you try the Hakko 456 iron. The only iron I know of on the market that has the > > heating element inside the tip. Enables this 60 watt iron to outperform most 100 watt > > irons. In addition, quality is excellent. We use them in our studio exclusively. This > > iron runs at 1000 degrees so you will need a temperature control especially if you work > > with lead came. I prefer the added flexibility of a temperature control versus using > > differnt tips to control temperatue as with the weller 100. It's much easier to change > > temperature by turning a knob versus removing and replacing ( a hot ) tip. > > > > Since we work mostly with lead came, I have found that a temperature of 650 degrees > > gives us the best result. I personally like the ability to precisely control the iron's > > temperature ( rather than to the nearest 100 degrees. > > > > On copper foil, brass and zinc came I like to work at full throttle (1000 degrees) so I > > need only turn the knob all the way up. I don't beleive the Weller will get over 800 > > degrees. > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > How much do the tips of the hakko cost? I have an unger another built > in heater and the professional tip cost around $45. > > ---Mike Savad > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassMike, Don't quote me but they are in the $20-$25 range. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass