From owner-glass Wed Mar 1 15:59:03 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rjyI3-0000Faa; Wed, 1 Mar 95 15:58 PST X-Path: cps201.cps.cmich.edu!eiszler From: Sue Eiszler To: glass@bungi.com Subject: vacation Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 18:58:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1995Mar1.135836.0@cps.cmich.edu> References: <<199503010030.TAA08359@ns.interactive.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sorry to do this to the whole list. I am going to be gone until 3/11 and don't know how to put myself on vacation status. Sue eiszler@cps.cmich.edu From owner-glass Sat Mar 4 18:31:58 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rl66G-0000dFa; Sat, 4 Mar 95 18:31 PST X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Lampshade Assembly. Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 18:31:02 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I am about to start constructing a stained glass lampshade. This is a first for me and I was wondering if anyone has any tips I might find helpful for the construction part. I have a book (Introduction to Stained Glass) which shows some basic steps. The lamp I've chosen is flat surfaced with 8 panels pieced together. The book demonstrates this technique: Place the pieces face up in a semi-circle. Using black electrical tape, tape the pieces together..then carefully raise into a cone shape and then tape last two pieces together. Are there any tips on soldering? Any other suggestions for a successful project? Thanks in advance! Glenna -- From owner-glass Sat Mar 4 20:44:12 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rl8Ab-0000oPa; Sat, 4 Mar 95 20:43 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lampshade Assembly. Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 20:44:01 -0800 Message-ID: <199503050444.AA12218@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Glenna, forget the instructions in the book... Ihave done over 950 panel type lamps to date, and most books complicate a simple job. If you have a chance fairly soon, tell which book and which lamp you are doing as I have some techniques to help assembly of the pieces of the lamp in each panel before they are pulled up. If you have jumped ahead, follow these simple directions. Lay the panels out in a fan fashion, line up the top and bottom of each panel as you go, if the panels are uneven on the bottom, average the difference between them. Put the first panel next to the second one, put a penny about a half inch from the top, and another one about a half inch from the bottom,between the two panels, tear off astrip of 3/4inch masking tape about 4 inches, and run the tape along the surface, do this in about three places on the panel, do not go above the upper penny, as the cap has to go over the top of the lamp and the tape ,will be in the way. Continue using the pennies as spacers between the panels, a use more tape when necessary. After you tape the last panel allow the tape to overhang about three inches. Pull the panels up from the center(top) and use the extra tape to close the lamp. Place the cap on top, it should fit over the top of the glass. Use a line level to level the cap tack solder the cap, being careful not to get solder above the foil line where it touches the cap./ Afterthe cap is tacked on, invert the lamp, place it in a round object, I use cottage cheese container. Tak solder the verticle seams. Remove the masking tape carefully so as not to tear the foil. Level the lamp in a box of crumpled newspaper and solder the outside seams. Do not use scotch tape instead of masking tape. If you do not understand some of these instructions, please ask for specifics. If the cap you have does not fit, and you are not in ahurry, I have and can send almost any size in 1/8 increments...yes they do make them. Another choice is to use aspider, I however do not like them. After about 100 shades they become easy.I have a set of my own patterns that are showy simple and easy to do in production, this about 15 designs off the same basic trapezoid(panel) with trim and bottom edge differences. Perhaps you are not ready for production yet. Write soon as I am a night person and usually check my mail very late West Coast Time. enjoy...Howard From owner-glass Sun Mar 5 08:05:17 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rlInh-0000QCa; Sun, 5 Mar 95 08:04 PST X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lampshade Assembly. Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 08:04:52 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: Lampshade Assembly." on Mar 4, 20:44, Elaine Lea Rubin writes:] > > Dear Glenna, forget the instructions in the book... Ihave done > over 950 panel type lamps to date, and most books complicate > a simple job. If you have a chance fairly soon, tell which > book and which lamp you are doing as I have some techniques > to help assembly of the pieces of the lamp in each panel > before they are pulled up. If you have jumped ahead, follow > these simple directions. Lay the panels out in a fan fashion, (snip) > are not in ahurry, I have and can send almost any size in > 1/8 increments...yes they do make them. Another choice is > to use aspider, I however do not like them. > Hi Howard, Thanks for your advice,..believe me, every little bit helps beginners like me. I am going to make a lampshade class in May but until then I thought I'd try one myself. The book I have for the technique is: "Introduction to Stained Glass" -A Teaching Manual by Randy & Judy Wardell. The design from a book called "Easy To Make Stained Glass Lampshades" by Ed Sibbett, Jr. The plate in particular that I chose was plate 18. (It is of a flower...and has a rounded, scalloped edge). Thanks again, Glenna -- From owner-glass Sun Mar 5 11:09:35 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rlLg1-0000awa; Sun, 5 Mar 95 11:09 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lampshade Assembly. Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 11:09:35 -0800 Message-ID: <199503051909.AA09687@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk dear Glenna, Yes , I have the pattern book by Sibet. Plate 18 is not out of range for a beginner, assuming your instructor does have quite a bit of lamp making skill and the ability to relate it to you. I will presume to give you some advice, and if it contradicts other information, I am willing to defend my skill level against anyone. Assuming you are still going to do 8 panels, ther finished size will be about 4 1/8 top diameter and the lower diameter, at the widest point will be about 13 inches. Each panel should be assembled in a jig. A jig is a frame. If you use a shelf type board, cut up a wooden yard stick, or strip type wood, or aluminum layout strips. Place one strip paralell to the edge of the jig board. Put a stop on the top of where the panel will be assembled. The stop can be a short piece of wood, ior two nails that will span the split in the top of the pattern. NOTE slightly out of order...Photo copy the pattern, cover the copy with clear shelf contact paper.Place it on the jig board, and then proceed with the above placing of the strips. In the end you should have a three sided group of stops or strips with the pattern underneath them. Leave the photo copy larger than the finished size of the lamp. Nail the strips over it. Mark on the strips where each of the pieces of glass adjoin, so as to be sure each panel meets in the same place when they are assembled If you do not use the jig, you will NOT be able to keep the sides straight and even, and you will have large gaps when the panels are assembled. If you only miss by a 1/16 in each panel, when you multiply by 8 it becomes 1/2 inch! If the panel varies a little on the lower edge, once it gets below the widest point, your eye will not track it, as there are no adjoining pieces to hook up. If it is going to be mounted on a stand (base) the densest glass should be used at the top 1/2. The design can use a less dense glass, as the source of light (bulb) will be aboce the design. A jewel would work nicely for the bottom circle. All copper foil joints should not be on an exposed edge. If I have over burdened you with "advice" ask for specific things as they come up. This is good practice for me to put my teachings in written form with someone who is not under my jhands on instruction...it gives me a chance to be conscise and try to do things in order...not real good at that yet. TRake care...correspond when necessary. Howard### From owner-glass Wed Mar 15 19:18:18 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rp62F-0000OLa; Wed, 15 Mar 95 19:15 PST X-Path: HOPE.CIT.HOPE.EDU!MULLER%ADMIN From: MULLER%ADMIN@HOPE.CIT.HOPE.EDU To: glass@bungi.com Subject: pricing Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 22:12:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1995Mar15.171247.0@HOPE.CIT.HOPE.EDU> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm brand new to the mailing list and am excited that something like this is going. Interested in knowing how many are on the mailing list and where they are from. Is that information possible to obtain? Also I have a questions for anyone who wishes to respond. I got into doing some Craft Fairs last summer. I've done a total of 3 and have found that I don't really enjoy doing them. Any one have the same experience? I found that it was difficult to second guess what the public would buy, and I didn't like making 10 of the same item. I find that I like design and coming up with ideas. Once I've tried something, I like to move on to a new project. The other thing that was frustrating was a guy next to me was set up with a bunch of pre-fab suncatchers and clocks and he had swarms of people at his booth. I had made each of my pieces by hand and didn't get nearly the response. I've basically given up the idea of doing any more craft fairs, basically because I don't have enough time to work on the projects I want to work on, if I prepare for a fair. Also I'm thinking commission work is maybe more up my alley. I'm also interested in how people determine a price for their work. If you've all discussed these topics --sorry- like I said I just got on the mailing list today (march 15). Barb muller@hope.edu.cit.edu. From owner-glass Wed Mar 15 19:58:46 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rp6hf-0000FEa; Wed, 15 Mar 95 19:58 PST To: rglass-1 X-Path: enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca!krypton.gandalf.ca!POSTMASTER%A1.mrgate From: enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca!krypton.gandalf.ca!POSTMASTER%A1.mrgate Subject: Delivery Failure Report Date: Wed Mar 15 19:58:19 1995 Message-ID: <0098D6B0.9C78F20A.30122@krypton.gandalf.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: NAME: Mail Postmaster FUNC: TEL: To: MX%"glass@bungi.com"@MRGATE ALL-IN-1 was unable to deliver your message dated to CGOFFIN - user cannot accept new mail on node K The subject of the message was : pricing From owner-glass Wed Mar 15 20:18:33 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rp70e-0000Wma; Wed, 15 Mar 95 20:18 PST To: rglass-1 X-Path: enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca!krypton.gandalf.ca!POSTMASTER%A1.mrgate From: enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca!krypton.gandalf.ca!POSTMASTER%A1.mrgate Subject: Delivery Failure Report Date: Wed Mar 15 20:17:57 1995 Message-ID: <0098D6B3.6DCDBE1A.30130@krypton.gandalf.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: NAME: Mail Postmaster FUNC: TEL: To: MX%"glass@bungi.com"@MRGATE ALL-IN-1 was unable to deliver your message dated to CGOFFIN - user cannot accept new mail on node K The subject of the message was : Delivery Failure Report From owner-glass Wed Mar 15 20:38:38 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rp7KF-0000L9a; Wed, 15 Mar 95 20:38 PST To: rglass-1 X-Path: enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca!krypton.gandalf.ca!POSTMASTER%A1.mrgate From: enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca!krypton.gandalf.ca!POSTMASTER%A1.mrgate Subject: Delivery Failure Report Date: Wed Mar 15 20:38:06 1995 Message-ID: <0098D6B6.3C03E50A.30134@krypton.gandalf.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: NAME: Mail Postmaster FUNC: TEL: To: MX%"glass@bungi.com"@MRGATE ALL-IN-1 was unable to deliver your message dated to CGOFFIN - user cannot accept new mail on node K The subject of the message was : Delivery Failure Report From owner-glass Wed Mar 15 20:58:38 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rp7dZ-0000WQa; Wed, 15 Mar 95 20:58 PST To: rglass-1 X-Path: enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca!krypton.gandalf.ca!POSTMASTER%A1.mrgate From: enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca!krypton.gandalf.ca!POSTMASTER%A1.mrgate Subject: Delivery Failure Report Date: Wed Mar 15 20:58:08 1995 Message-ID: <0098D6B9.0EA136AA.30138@krypton.gandalf.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: NAME: Mail Postmaster FUNC: TEL: To: MX%"glass@bungi.com"@MRGATE ALL-IN-1 was unable to deliver your message dated to CGOFFIN - user cannot accept new mail on node K The subject of the message was : Delivery Failure Report From owner-glass Wed Mar 15 21:19:13 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rp7xL-0000O1a; Wed, 15 Mar 95 21:18 PST To: rglass-1 X-Path: enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca!krypton.gandalf.ca!POSTMASTER%A1.mrgate From: enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca!krypton.gandalf.ca!POSTMASTER%A1.mrgate Subject: Delivery Failure Report Date: Wed Mar 15 21:18:31 1995 Message-ID: <0098D6BB.DF9915AA.30142@krypton.gandalf.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: NAME: Mail Postmaster FUNC: TEL: To: MX%"glass@bungi.com"@MRGATE ALL-IN-1 was unable to deliver your message dated to CGOFFIN - user cannot accept new mail on node K The subject of the message was : Delivery Failure Report From owner-glass Wed Mar 15 21:39:19 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rp8Gy-0000Wja; Wed, 15 Mar 95 21:39 PST To: rglass-1 X-Path: enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca!krypton.gandalf.ca!POSTMASTER%A1.mrgate From: enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca!krypton.gandalf.ca!POSTMASTER%A1.mrgate Subject: Delivery Failure Report Date: Wed Mar 15 21:38:51 1995 Message-ID: <0098D6BE.B3ADEC1A.30146@krypton.gandalf.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: NAME: Mail Postmaster FUNC: TEL: To: MX%"glass@bungi.com"@MRGATE ALL-IN-1 was unable to deliver your message dated to CGOFFIN - user cannot accept new mail on node K The subject of the message was : Delivery Failure Report From owner-glass Wed Mar 15 23:23:17 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rp9tS-0000SZa; Wed, 15 Mar 95 23:22 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: pricing Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 23:23:09 -0800 Message-ID: <199503160723.AA17717@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Barb, Welcome to the world of trying to sell your product, and all the joy of competing...my advice if you have a real day job, do not give it up for glass work. I have been doing "glass" for about 15 years, also starting out with sun catchers and that type of stuff. I very quickly got into lampshades and have done about 975 to date, with a very large price range. If you do cheap work, you sell to cheap people. A suggestion for craft fairs, find out the rules... only hand made by the craftsperson(politically correct) who is showing them, yesa or no for imported stuff, general prices of other merchandise, juried and who sits on the jury...be tough, ask for their credentials. As for commission work, pricing and finding a market aint easy. You need to keep careful track of your time spent on a phases of commisssion work, phone time, customer time, art work, actual glass work time, driving time and any other time spent on a specific project. The next record keeping includes all materials (costs), I generally give most of the handmade scrap glass to my client to be used if repairs are necessary at a future date. THis menas I do not have to keep track of the scraps for a major commission. You also have to come up with designs that are efficient to cut, such as using a curve from one cut for the next piece and or doing multiples and alternating the pieces so that you are cutting 5 or 6 at a time. This is known as production, and may make you competive by being able to price right. Another ploy that works well is to offer something for free with a specific purchase, or dollar amount(total). Another thing to enable to sell is buying as low as possible. I generally buy solder by the 50# box. When in doubt, price your work at a fair wage using some of the above advice. The lower your value of your work is, the less some one will pay for it. If you want to reply and or question me further, I am Howard, and I am using my wife's email address. I hpoe some of the advice will be of use, and I have not beat the topic to death. take care... From owner-glass Thu Mar 16 05:49:42 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rpFvR-0000JJa; Thu, 16 Mar 95 05:49 PST X-Path: YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu!UConnVM.UConn.Edu!HCLADM02 From: Dorothy Kalahan To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: pricing Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 08:37:01 EST Message-ID: <950316.084814.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1995Mar15.171247.0@HOPE.CIT.HOPE.EDU>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk When you do craft fairs (and they can be the source of commissions), choose those that are juried. You'll need to send in some photos and be judged, but I have never done a juried show where someone is selling those tacky plastic suncatchers at 3/$1 or whatever. Pricing...what a headache, to make a profit and still be competitive. I try to estimate the cost of materials and charge 3 to 4 times that...(the market will sometimes allow youa higher margin on some things). Since I am quick, this usually gives me a moderate "reward" for my labor. Frankly, If I found that I was to be setup at a craft fair next to a a smiliar product, I'd raise holy heck. Good craft fairs try not to do that! Dorothy From owner-glass Thu Mar 16 21:18:33 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rpUPg-0000IWa; Thu, 16 Mar 95 21:17 PST X-Path: yeelut.win.net!meir From: meir@yeelut.win.net (MEIR ROTFLEISCH) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Delivery Failure Report Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 20:19:07 Message-ID: <84@yeelut.win.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >From: NAME: Mail Postmaster > FUNC: > TEL: >To: MX%"glass@bungi.com"@MRGATE > > > ALL-IN-1 was unable to deliver your message dated to > CGOFFIN - user cannot accept new mail > on node K > > The subject of the message was : > Delivery Failure Report > I keep getting 2 or 3 of these messages sent to me. Can you correct the problem? Please!!! meir ---------------------------------------------------------------- MEIR ROTFLEISCH P.O.B. 39096 YE'ELUT COMPUTERS AND SYSTEMS TEL AVIV ISRAEL 61390 TEL:972-3-642-7137 FAX:972-3-641-0895 E-MAIL: BT318@FREENET.CARLETON.CA MEIR@YEELUT.WIN.NET ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-glass Fri Mar 17 06:05:14 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rpcdf-0000hra; Fri, 17 Mar 95 06:04 PST X-Path: mail.prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Solder Wick Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 08:58:50 EST Message-ID: <013.04565883.MPGP79B@prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Does anyone know how to use solder wick properly? I bought some, thinking it might be an easy way to remove excess solder from a tricky corner on a lampshade. I did manage to fix the lampshade, but I can't say I was impressed with the amount of solder the wick soaked up. Maybe I'm expecting too much? Is it really meant for some special use that I don't know about? Thanks! Peggy From owner-glass Fri Mar 17 06:31:29 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rpd2m-0000l8a; Fri, 17 Mar 95 06:30 PST X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Wick Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 14:31:48 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <9503171431.AA08239@crosfield.co.uk> References: <<013.04565883.MPGP79B@prodigy.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I did manage to fix the lampshade, but I can't > say I was impressed with the amount of solder the wick soaked up. > Maybe I'm expecting too much? Is it really meant for some special use > that I don't know about? It's mainly intended for desoldering electronic components, where you've only got small quantities of solder (attaching the component lead to a PCB pad) to deal with. (usually split lentil sized or smaller blobs). You might have more luck with the "sucker" style solder removers - either a sort of spring loaded syringe affair, or a turkey baster style bulb, both with heat resistant nozzles - the idea is both cases is that by rapidly drawing air into the device, the molten solder will be drawn in - but even with these, they're still (as far as I know) intended for electronics applications, so you're still unlikely to get large quantities in one go. -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) From owner-glass Fri Mar 17 06:37:22 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rpd8V-0000fCa; Fri, 17 Mar 95 06:36 PST X-Path: beijing.natinst.com!todd From: todd@beijing.natinst.com (Todd Brower) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Wick Date: Fri, 17 Mar 95 08:40:05 CST Message-ID: <9503171440.AA09838@beijing.natinst.com.noname> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I like to loosen the wick by squeezing it together then brush a little flux on the wick. Most of the time I just run the excess solder off with the iron, but if it's a small internal piece then it's nice to wick it off. I think you're right about the wick no soaking up a load of solder. In electronics, I`ve used a little thing called a solder bulb that sucks up the molten solder you could try one of those. It looks like one of those things you use to flush you nose out with (oooh sorry about that). You can get a solder bulb at your local Radio Shack. Bye, Todd From owner-glass Fri Mar 17 17:29:51 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rpn4R-0000bga; Fri, 17 Mar 95 17:12 PST X-Path: marlin.exchange.com!pbornem From: pbornem@marlin.exchange.com (Phil Bornemeier) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Wick Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 19:29:25 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >-- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- > >Does anyone know how to use solder wick properly? I bought some, >thinking it might be an easy way to remove excess solder from a tricky >corner on a lampshade. I did manage to fix the lampshade, but I can't >say I was impressed with the amount of solder the wick soaked up. >Maybe I'm expecting too much? Is it really meant for some special use >that I don't know about? Thanks! Peggy > The solder wick is used to remove solder from printed circuit boards so that components can be removed. The wick is not designed to remove large amounts of solder. A device meant to remove larger quantities is a "solder sucker" -- a spring loaded suction tool that was also designed for use with electronic components. You can get an inexpensive one from a Radio Shack or other electronic supply house for about $10. I have used one to remove excess solder from one project, and it was much easier (and neater) than shaking the piece until the solder flew out! Hope it will work for you. -- pbornem@marlin.exchange.com Not making a choice Phil Bornemeier is making a choice. It is a choice to stay where you are. ------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-glass Sat Mar 18 05:17:18 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rpyNC-0000Yha; Sat, 18 Mar 95 05:16 PST X-Path: cps201.cps.cmich.edu!eiszler From: Sue Eiszler To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Wick Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 08:16:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1995Mar18.31631.0@cps.cmich.edu> References: <<013.04565883.MPGP79B@prodigy.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 Mar 1995, PEGGY M PALM wrote: > -- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- > > Does anyone know how to use solder wick properly? I bought some, > thinking it might be an easy way to remove excess solder from a tricky > corner on a lampshade. I did manage to fix the lampshade, but I can't > say I was impressed with the amount of solder the wick soaked up. > Maybe I'm expecting too much? Is it really meant for some special use > that I don't know about? Thanks! Peggy > I have used the wick on two occasions. I found it very hard to get it started soaking up the solder, but once I got it going, it worked very well. I found it necessary to use a lot of wick. But it did work. Sue eiszler@cps.cmich.edu From owner-glass Sun Mar 19 06:46:54 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqME6-0000Rua; Sun, 19 Mar 95 06:45 PST X-Path: mail.prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Solder wick replies/another ? Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:39:22 EST Message-ID: <013.04613502.MPGP79B@prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Thanks to all for the helpful information! Knowing what the product was originally intended for explains why it didn't do what I thought it would, and will let me use it more appropriately in the future. Now I have another question: I'm finishing my first Tiffany-style lamp (a 16" poppy cone), which has brass filigree overlay on leaves and flowers. The shop where I took my first lessons about 18 months ago has closed. I seem to remember being told that the overlay parts should be tinned (I did) and then tacked very lightly to the solder lines in only a few spots, after cleaning the lamp thoroughly first. Then patina is applied very carefully to avoid drip-through onto the glass. Recently, I saw a video demonstration of overlay application in which it was not tinned, but was beaded with solder around the entire edge of the filigree. Do any of you have any recommendations for a beginner regarding these methods (or others)? Thanks! Peggy From owner-glass Sun Mar 19 15:08:43 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqU3h-0000lKa; Sun, 19 Mar 95 15:06 PST X-Path: aol.com!JCWALE From: JCWALE@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: soldering equipment Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 18:06:42 -0500 Message-ID: <950319180641_54393676@aol.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Can anyone suggest the proper soldering iron to use? What wattage size? Would a temperature controlled tip be useful (We use them in electronic soldering). How do you remove large quantities of solder? Solder wick works for small quantities, in electronics, we often use solder sippers, but how do you do it for stained glass? Thanks for any answers given. From owner-glass Sun Mar 19 16:28:28 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqVK5-0000aPa; Sun, 19 Mar 95 16:27 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder wick replies/another ? Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 16:28:05 -0800 Message-ID: <199503200028.AA07662@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Peggy, I am Howard, and I make lamps for living. The Poppy lamp can have the filigree for the leaves either on the out side, or the inside of the shade. I always put the leave filigree on the inside...this makes a more subtle veining effect, and allows for a much cleaner look of the solder on the outside. If you have used a very dense(heavy opal) for the leaves, then you probably should put the filigree on the outside, if not do the inside. As for tinning, you should pretin the filligree, so the patina will take and not bleed off the unfinished brass. If you DO NOT let the patina dry on the glass, it will leave no or vrty little stain on the glass. When I put the filigree on the leaves(inside) I only lightly tin the foil, and press the pre-tinned filigree hard against the fiol lines, so as to make sure the filigree is tight on the glass. If you are doing the bottom row as a tuck row and have not yet put it on, let me know, as I have some very effective methods for installing that row.I have done 6 16" odyssey poppies to date, and all have sold. Any more questions and or things you are unsure of,holler. enjoy... From owner-glass Sun Mar 19 16:58:00 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqVmj-0000kFa; Sun, 19 Mar 95 16:57 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering equipment Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 16:57:39 -0800 Message-ID: <199503200057.AA15592@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This is Howard again... My personal and recommended iron is an Ungar, with the 1,000 heater(the first buy would be #1140A). I do not like any iron which internally regulates the temp, as no temp is constant and consistant, as it is either turning on to raise, or turning off to lower the temp. I have a rheostat for setting the temp. I do only copper foil so the maximum temp is fine. If you are doing came then you can turn the rheostst down just enough to melt the solder without going through the came immediately. As for "de-soldering" gravity and capillary action for me has been fool-proof up until now. How much is a large amount of solder? After 15 years of copper foil and 1017 units( no Suncatchersor doo-dads) I can run a bead that looks as smooth as came...for foil, the hotter the better. I enjoy answering and or giving my opinions, and do understand that there many ways of doing things. My criteria is fairly simple... how long does it take, can I get faster, and will some-one buy it, and can I make any money at it? Enjoy From owner-glass Sun Mar 19 22:12:20 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqagx-0000j0a; Sun, 19 Mar 95 22:11 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder wick replies/another ? Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:12:14 -0800 Message-ID: <199503200612.AA02556@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Peggy... did my message go through, I am not sure...Howard If you did not get my advice on filigree, let me know. enjoy From owner-glass Mon Mar 20 08:56:31 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqkkB-0000e4a; Mon, 20 Mar 95 08:55 PST X-Path: uoguelph.ca!kfuchs From: Katherine Fuchs To: glass@bungi.com Subject: soldering advice Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am new to stained glass - have completed two copper foil lamps so far. I seem to spend a very long time soldering, trying to get just the right height and smoothness to the solder lines and never quite acheiving 'perfection'. Howard, you have been so kind to answer so many of the questions posed on this mail list. Do you have any advice? Kathy From owner-glass Mon Mar 20 10:38:58 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqmLi-0000i7a; Mon, 20 Mar 95 10:38 PST X-Path: Census.GOV!mperez From: Marita Perez To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Finding Prarie Designs of California Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 13:38:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1995Mar20.83835.0@Census.GOV> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I am new to this list and am trying to find the address and/or phone number to Prarie Designs of California. Can anyone help me? Marita Perez mperez@census.gov From owner-glass Mon Mar 20 13:01:36 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqoZO-0000p3a; Mon, 20 Mar 95 13:00 PST X-Path: qmail4.sp.trw.com!Rachael_Innes From: "Rachael Innes" To: "Glass" Subject: Glass fusing/kilns Date: 20 Mar 1995 12:58:02 U Message-ID: <1995Mar20.4582.0@qmail4.sp.trw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glass fusing/kilns 3/20/95 12:54 PM Hi, I wanted to know if anyone has any experience with glass fusing. I am currently looking at buying a mini kiln from Arrow Springs. It is 9x9. I have seen a rapid fire kiln advertised elsewhere, and wondered what the difference (if there is one) is. Does anyone have any other source they would recommend? Thanks for any help. Rachael From owner-glass Mon Mar 20 14:52:43 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqqJ9-0000F3a; Mon, 20 Mar 95 14:52 PST X-Path: aol.com!LBettin From: LBettin@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Cabinet Panels Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:52:08 -0500 Message-ID: <950320174838_55440862@aol.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am constructing six panels for upper cabinets built into my dining room and need advice as to how to affix the panels into the recessed areas on the back portion of the doors. The panels are foiled with one central rebar. Should I came the outside perimeter of the glass before installing? Is silicone gule the answer? No rush, I have only two of the panels finished.:-) Laura Bettingen From owner-glass Mon Mar 20 15:32:37 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqqvW-0000tja; Mon, 20 Mar 95 15:31 PST X-Path: cps201.cps.cmich.edu!eiszler From: Sue Eiszler To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Finding Prarie Designs of California Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 18:31:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1995Mar20.133142.0@cps.cmich.edu> References: <<1995Mar20.83835.0@Census.GOV>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Hi, I am new to this list and am trying to find the address and/or phone > number to Prarie Designs of California. Can anyone help me? Prarie Designs of California PO Box 886 Brisbane, CA 94005 415-468-5446 > Sue eiszler@cps.cmich.edu From owner-glass Mon Mar 20 16:53:01 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqsBd-00002na; Mon, 20 Mar 95 16:52 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: soldering advice Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 16:52:56 -0800 Message-ID: <199503210052.AA27345@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This is Howard, again, if this was not my wife's account, I would have a signature and stock salutation... Kathy... As for soldering, it takes many pieces to get good. I am assuming you are doing panel lamps, I use a 1100 degree iron and have enough speed and skill to run a bead as fast as the solder will melt. A suggestion is to flow as much solder on each seam as possible without trying to raise a bead on your first pass. Re flux the seam and make a second pass from top of shade to bottom. The lamp must be level (paralell fo floor) for the bead to stay even. Any excess solder can then be run off. By using a hot iron, you can apply the corner of tip to smooth out a roughspot without doing the whole bead over. Practice Practice Practice. Enjoy... From owner-glass Mon Mar 20 17:01:45 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqsK7-0000FDa; Mon, 20 Mar 95 17:01 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cabinet Panels Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:01:35 -0800 Message-ID: <199503210101.AA29334@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk and once again, Howard... Laura, although I try to avoid "doing windows", I have at times not been able to get out of them. I have used double sided (sticky) foam that glaziers use to install clear windows into rigid frames (storm windows).It comes in different widths and holds real tight. They (glass shops) can show you how to apply it, peel off tape on one side, stick to inside of frame, put window on it, and slowly peel off backing all the way around. As a further measure you can use glaziers push pins to make sure the panel goes nowhere. If it is not to your liking, perhaps wood molding on the inside would dress it up better. Enjoy...as with most stuff, more than one way to do it. From owner-glass Mon Mar 20 18:08:29 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rqtMG-0000cPa; Mon, 20 Mar 95 18:07 PST X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Light Box Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 18:07:28 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I am making and light box and I was wondering what type of glass to use on the top (so that it can with stand cutting on it). I was watching V. Payne on Sat. and the specified what kind to use...you think I remembered?...not. Help? Glenna -- From owner-glass Tue Mar 21 05:49:56 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rr4JL-0000i1a; Tue, 21 Mar 95 05:49 PST X-Path: mail.prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: lightbox Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:09:04 EST Message-ID: <013.04674456.MPGP79B@prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Hi Glenna- I used 1/4 inch frosted plate glass for my light box and have been happy with it. I have also seen 1/4 " plexiglass used. Don't know what Vicki uses. I tape her show on Tues. afternoons, but haven't seen lightbox directions so far. If they appear today I'll be happy to pass on the info. to you later. Peggy From owner-glass Tue Mar 21 06:07:17 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rr4Zu-0000BCa; Tue, 21 Mar 95 06:06 PST X-Path: mail.prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Filigree and tucked lamp edge Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:09:10 EST Message-ID: <013.04674457.MPGP79B@prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Thank you for the very valuable input, Howard. I would never have thought of foiling the edge of the filigree after applying patina! I'm also glad to hear that you can spray water over the finished lamp to clean it. I had previously been told that it's not ok to do that because it can loosen the foil even after soldering, and to clean with a damp sponge instead. The explanation didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time, but who argues with the teacher at the beginner's class? Will try your suggestion for the tucked edge: your instructions make perfect sense. I had been wondering how to keep those edges from sliding around when trying to attach them to the body of the lamp, but figured I'd resolve the filigree first, and then worry about the next step. Your answer was just perfect. Thanks! Peggy From owner-glass Tue Mar 21 08:30:42 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rr6oy-0000ZSa; Tue, 21 Mar 95 08:30 PST X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: lightbox Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:30:11 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: lightbox" on Mar 21, 8:09, PEGGY M PALM writes:] > -- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- > > Hi Glenna- > > I used 1/4 inch frosted plate glass for my light box and have been > happy with it. I have also seen 1/4 " plexiglass used. Don't know > what Vicki uses. I tape her show on Tues. afternoons, but haven't seen > lightbox directions so far. If they appear today I'll be happy to pass > on the info. to you later. Peggy Hi Peggy, Thanks for your help. I am very anxious to use it. Please do let me know if you catch Vicki's show on light boxes. Thanks again! Glenna -- From owner-glass Tue Mar 21 11:27:40 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rr9aJ-0000CFa; Tue, 21 Mar 95 11:27 PST X-Path: aol.com!LBettin From: LBettin@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re Light Box Top Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:27:03 -0500 Message-ID: <950321142701_56417708@aol.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Morton makes a cutting board that is sectioned off in 1/2 inch recessed squares. I bought the larges size of this and built the light box to fit. I love it because it there is enough transparency to see through, sturdy enough to cut on and lets all the chips of glass fall into the recessed holes. Keeps your work surface much cleaner. I only have to empty the top off once a month or so. Course this is just my humble opinion.:) Love to hear what you decide and how it works out, Laura From owner-glass Tue Mar 21 11:59:48 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrA5P-0000LOa; Tue, 21 Mar 95 11:59 PST X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Re Light Box Top Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:59:20 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re Light Box Top" on Mar 21, 14:27, LBettin@aol.com writes:] > Morton makes a cutting board that is sectioned off in 1/2 inch recessed > squares. I bought the larges size of this and built the light box to fit. I > love it because it there is enough transparency to see through, sturdy enough > to cut on and lets all the chips of glass fall into the recessed holes. > Keeps your work surface much cleaner. I only have to empty the top off once > a month or so. Course this is just my humble opinion.:) Love to hear what > you decide and how it works out, Laura Thanks for the tip....I'm not sure yet what I'm going to use. I've heard that plate glass (which is what is apparently recommended) is very expensive. Thanks again. Glenna -- From owner-glass Tue Mar 21 16:19:07 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrE8J-00001fa; Tue, 21 Mar 95 16:18 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Light Box Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:18:33 -0800 Message-ID: <199503220018.AA18357@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk this is Howard... Dear Glenna, I use a piece of 3/16" plate for my cutting light box. I cut the corners off to allow some of the heat from the 2 60watt clear bulbs in it. It is also convenient to be able to sweep the chips into the corners, and have them drop in the box. Because I do lamps, I only use clear bulbs. It is easy to make a light box with porcelain cleat sockets and a dimmer switch wired in so as to control the brightness of the light. You can sandblast or etch the plate so it diffuses the light a little. enjoy... From owner-glass Tue Mar 21 16:37:53 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrEQR-0000N7a; Tue, 21 Mar 95 16:37 PST X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Light Box Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:37:09 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: Light Box" on Mar 21, 16:18, Elaine Lea Rubin writes:] > > this is Howard... > Dear Glenna, > I use a piece of 3/16" plate for my cutting light box. I cut > the corners off to allow some of the heat from the 2 60watt > clear bulbs in it. It is also convenient to be able to sweep the chips > into the corners, and have them drop in the box. Because I do lamps, > I only use clear bulbs. It is easy to make a light box with porcelain > cleat sockets and a dimmer switch wired in so as to control the > brightness of the light. You can sandblast or etch the plate so it > diffuses the light a little. > enjoy... Thanks Howard,...you're very helpful. Glenna -- From owner-glass Tue Mar 21 17:03:17 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrEp7-0000Raa; Tue, 21 Mar 95 17:02 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Filigree and tucked lamp edge Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 17:03:11 -0800 Message-ID: <199503220103.AA00599@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard, again... To Peggy, "But who argues " does not cut it... If it doesn't make sense, question it. I always start a class by asking for and saying questions and other ways to do something are welcomed. If I can not punch a hole in an idea, then I usually try it. You also should see what your instructor can do. I have un-learned many students that I picked up from other instructors over the years. When in doubt...question. enjoy... Howard From owner-glass Tue Mar 21 20:12:09 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrHlx-0000Sla; Tue, 21 Mar 95 20:11 PST X-Path: Camosun.BC.CA!COOPERD From: cooperd@Camosun.BC.CA To: glass@bungi.com Subject: framing Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:11:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1995Mar21.121138.0@Camosun.BC.CA> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any ideas on how to hang lead panels, I would like to have wooden frames but don't know how to make them up, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Donna From owner-glass Wed Mar 22 01:24:10 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrMdu-00004Ja; Wed, 22 Mar 95 01:23 PST X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Re Light Box Top Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:25:31 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <9503220925.AA08587@crosfield.co.uk> References: <<950321142701_56417708@aol.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > Morton makes a cutting board that is sectioned off in 1/2 inch recessed > squares. I bought the larges size of this and built the light box to fit. Hmm. I was wondering if that would work :-). Did you use the board as the top of the light box, or did you use something else and just stand the board on top of that? -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc@crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc@selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry@shell.portal.com (alternate) From owner-glass Wed Mar 22 07:51:43 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrSgF-0000TQa; Wed, 22 Mar 95 07:50 PST X-Path: mmac.is.lmsc.lockheed.com!rund#m#_sharen From: "Rund, Sharen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: framing Date: 22 Mar 1995 07:48:14 U Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi I have 2-1/2 panels whcih were from an old doorway which one panel on each side of the door and one long one that went across the top (1) The one side panel is framed in the original metal frame that it had when installed - my husband soldered 2 rings at the one end and added chains to it - this hangs in one of our picture windows (2) the other, which was across the top was damaged a bit when it was removed - creating a new pattern that used the old glass we were able to "break" this in half & create 2 side panels (one is finished & one is still being leaded) - the finished one is going to be "framed" like a picture with wood insets to hold the glass in - then it will be hung in a similar fashion as the earlier panel (1) - when the second panel is finished it will be framed the same way Hope this helps! _______________________________________________________________________________ From: glass@bungi.com on Tue, Mar 21, 1995 8:20 PM Subject: framing To: glass@bungi.com Does anyone have any ideas on how to hang lead panels, I would like to have wooden frames but don't know how to make them up, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Donna ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by MMAC.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM with SMTP;21 Mar 1995 20:20:40 U Received: from trusty.lmsc.lockheed.com by eagle.lmsc.lockheed.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA22848; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:12:54 -0800 Received: from eagle.lmsc.lockheed.com by trusty.lmsc.lockheed.com (4.1/SMT-4.0) id AA03583; Tue, 21 Mar 95 20:19:48 PST Received: from daver.bungi.com by eagle.lmsc.lockheed.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA22844; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:12:49 -0800 Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrHlx-0000Sla; Tue, 21 Mar 95 20:11 PST X-Path: Camosun.BC.CA!COOPERD From: cooperd@camosun.bc.ca To: glass@bungi.com Subject: framing Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:11:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1995Mar21.121138.0@Camosun.BC.CA> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From owner-glass Wed Mar 22 11:37:21 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrWDG-0000QJa; Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:37 PST X-Path: aol.com!LBettin From: LBettin@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Response Re Morton LtBox Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:36:56 -0500 Message-ID: <950322143654_57602733@aol.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerry from Laura: I use the Morton board, which is plexiglass (I believe), measuring approx. 22" x 32" as the top. The box is slightly larger to accommodate it, with an inside lip to hold the top. Like Howard, I use a dimmer on the light source itself and the box is deep enough to keep some supplies inside when I want to tidy up (rarely:)). The front is hinged for easy retrieval and I have handles on the side for ease of moving it around if needed. As I said, this may not be for everyone, but I find it plenty sturdy enough to cut on. Sometimes doing tracing work on paper, I place another thin sheet of clear glass down (i.e., top, paper to trace from, glass, paper to trace to. But best of all, I like the cleanup aspect. Let me know if this is not clear or if you have other questions. Laura From owner-glass Wed Mar 22 11:37:23 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrWDD-0000eHa; Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:36 PST X-Path: aol.com!LBettin From: LBettin@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Glass Panels Thanks Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:36:52 -0500 Message-ID: <950322143650_57602667@aol.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard, your advice is appreciated. Thanks for being so generous with your time and experience. I like the wood molding idea. Guess when it comes time for installation I will just experiment til I get both the look I want and the safety factor. Don't want the panels falling out after all this work. I did call my glass supplier and she has both the foam and the glazer's pins you suggested, so I am in good shape as far as supplies go. Hello to all of you out there in the stained glass world. It's nice to hear about what you all are doing. Again, Howard, thanks. With regards, Laura From owner-glass Wed Mar 22 12:15:15 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrWnz-0000Xoa; Wed, 22 Mar 95 12:14 PST X-Path: ix.netcom.com!Rneaves From: Rneaves@ix.netcom.com (Roger Neaves) To: glass@bungi.com. Subject: reinforcing window Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:13:30 -0800 Message-ID: <199503222013.MAA07832@ix2.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have just finished copper foiling a window that is 20 in. X 40 in. I find that I need something to reinforce it to make it more rigid. When I pick it up the window wobbles. I am going to install it in a wood frame eventually but in the meantime, should I do anything else to make it stronger? TIA, Janet Neaves From owner-glass Wed Mar 22 15:42:35 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rra2A-0000iVa; Wed, 22 Mar 95 15:41 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Re Light Box Top Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:41:52 -0800 Message-ID: <199503222341.AA28718@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This is Howard... The obvious use of the Morton is with the holes up, at times, when I am doing small piece work, the glass will rock and or crack on the hole side, thionk about using the solid side instead. For me I still prefer clear plate glass as a worl surface for cutting and candeling the glass. Enjoy... From owner-glass Wed Mar 22 15:47:57 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rra7f-0000eva; Wed, 22 Mar 95 15:47 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Panels Thanks Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:47:54 -0800 Message-ID: <199503222347.AA00573@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk once again...Howard... Laura, Themolding can easily be placed after the foam tape and or pins are used. The molding on the inside will dress up the installation. I wopuld use the foam tape to prevent and rattling and shifting of the panels, then molding. Enjoy... From owner-glass Wed Mar 22 17:11:01 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrbQA-0000bBa; Wed, 22 Mar 95 17:10 PST X-Path: mail.prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Filigree and tucked lamp edge Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:33:24 EST Message-ID: <013.04726875.MPGP79B@prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Re: "who argues with the teacher"...Gosh, Howard, I didn't mean to make it sound as though I never question instructions :-) ! What happened was that the teacher made a big point of the dire consequences that can result from running water over a finished glass piece. It didn't make sense to me that soldered foil would come unglued when exposed to water. When I asked, he said that the water could work under the soldered foil, ultimately weakening the piece by allowing the glass to become looser. I had watched him work, and he had beautiful pieces on display that he had made. To my inexperienced eyes, it certainly seemed as though he knew what he was talking about, so I believed what he said. It wasn't until I got on this board that I heard anyone say that they had done this without bad results. I have to say I haven't enjoyed the damp sponge method of cleaning much, but I wasn't about to risk my lampshade (my third project, you see...) with anything that might make it fall apart! I'm really happy with the way the lamp is turning out, thanks in part to your good advice. I used Youghiogheny glass in deep reds through oranges for the poppies, pale through deep greens for leaves and buds and a ring-mottled cream color for the background and middle band. The upper and lower bands are deep green. I've had it off the form to see what it looks like lit up and was just thrilled. I was wondering what doing your first big project was like for you and some of the others on the list with lots of experience. Does that feeling of excitement and accomplishment change when you've made many projects? Looking forward to your posts... Peggy From owner-glass Wed Mar 22 23:42:57 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrhXM-0000gja; Wed, 22 Mar 95 23:42 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Filigree and tucked lamp edge Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:42:52 -0800 Message-ID: <199503230742.AA03184@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk this is Howard... Peggy, not knowing anything about you and your skill level, the "question your instructor" is a good admonishment. I did not mean to imply that you just followed blindly.Enough Considering that I started doing lamps and with no instruction, or someone to set an example-good or bad, the only person to satisfy was me. Around my 200th piece, which was a 16" Worden Tulip(Odyssey was not in commercial production yet) and producing a shade that I thought was pretty good, almost worth keeping for myself, that I made a decision that these were not my "children" and that selling them would not be a problem. My first dome that someone bought was sold by me. I had a major problem that someone would spend $350.00 including a floor base for something I made, and for weeks I was wondering if that person wouild show up and request her money back. The shade was a 20" floral globe, with a white background and a very careful and static repeat of the three colors for the flowers. I have had pieces sell from major outlets and some have retailed for over $8,000.00, but still can remember specific sales and buyers, even after 1,017 units. Enough aboutme. The choice of colors for Poppy sound good. The shading and clear spaces in the Yogo can make for a good lamp, I am assuming that you used stipples. The waxy effect of the stipples can be used well in changing densities as the shade deepens. What if any base do you have in mind, as most of the original "Tiffinies, in my opinion have bases that are too tall for the shade. With the newer foil by Venture,(new improved adhesive) it is, with a little care and not having the joint on a exposed edge, very unlikely to come off or even pull away. I have repaired many lamps over the years and if the foil was put on a clean and dry piece of glass to start, and burnished down well, it holds up well to cleaning. I always use clear bulbs for my lamps, as I feel that seeing the outline( I cant spell siloutte) of a frosted bulb is more annoying than a clear one...experiment. I also do not go over 60 watts as I feel that too bright takes away from the color of the glass. A dimmer or an inline switch with two levels will work. Enjoy... From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 05:33:26 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrn0O-0000Vfa; Thu, 23 Mar 95 05:32 PST X-Path: YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu!UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: Dorothy Kalahan To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Morton system Date: Thu, 23 Mar 95 08:25:36 EST Message-ID: <950323.083258.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I confess...I use a psuedo Morton surface for cutting. It's a ceiling panel I bought at a hardware store that has those plastic criss-crosses just like Morton's. and, in fact, I have the Morton whatchamacallit for cutting straight lines that fits on it just fine (I do lots of picture frames). I don't work on a light box, but draw my patterns out on the glass generally, so my surface is on a table. Off to the side, in front of my grinder is a little flat surface where I can cut small pieces. Every month or so, I just lift up my surface and sweep away the little glass shards. My other favorite hardware store doohickey is a right angle clamp. I padded the clamp with duct tape and use it hold things that are being soldered at right angles, like boxes! Dorothy hcladm02@uconnvm.uconn.edu From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 08:12:22 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrpTU-0000cIa; Thu, 23 Mar 95 08:11 PST X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Solder Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:10:39 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone: Just wondering about what type of solder I should use for my lamp. I have to grind and copperfoil it yet but was wondering what difference 60/40 or 50/50 solder would make. Glenna -- From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 09:37:45 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrqop-0000eka; Thu, 23 Mar 95 09:37 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:37:29 -0800 Message-ID: <199503231737.AA01808@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This is Howard. It's a matter of personal preference. I prefer 50/50, since that is what I learned on and it's a little bit cheaper. Both work well. THe only suggestion I have is to stay with a certified alloy, since uncertainfied (bargain solder) can be anything and may not bead well. Enjoy... From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 10:53:29 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrs01-0000gOa; Thu, 23 Mar 95 10:52 PST X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:52:24 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: Solder" on Mar 23, 9:37, Elaine Lea Rubin writes:] > > This is Howard. > It's a matter of personal preference. I prefer 50/50, since that > is what I learned on and it's a little bit cheaper. Both work well. > THe only suggestion I have is to stay with a certified alloy, since > uncertainfied (bargain solder) can be anything and may not bead well. > Enjoy... Thanks once again for information,..I really appreciate it. Glad you are on the mailing list. It's nice to have someone so supportive and informative as you. Thanks again. Glenna -- From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 13:22:07 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rruKE-0000SAa; Thu, 23 Mar 95 13:21 PST X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!chaseway From: wayne chase To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Summary: NB*net - New Brunswick's Regional Network 1-800-561-4459 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 17:18:42 AST Message-ID: <9523171842.A1F7> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:52:24 PST, gjr@daver.bungi.com writes: > >[In the message entitled "Re: Solder" on Mar 23, 9:37, Elaine Lea Rubin writes:] >> >> This is Howard. >> It's a matter of personal preference. I prefer 50/50, since that >> is what I learned on and it's a little bit cheaper. Both work well. >> THe only suggestion I have is to stay with a certified alloy, since >> uncertainfied (bargain solder) can be anything and may not bead well. >> Enjoy... > >Thanks once again for information,..I really appreciate it. Glad >you are on the mailing list. It's nice to have someone so >supportive and informative as you. Thanks again. > >Glenna > > I will second that......I've only been on the list a few days so I am just a listener now to see what is being said before I start yacking. I have found some very helpful commentary over the past few days, and I thank you Howard for talking the time to be so informative and explain things in such depth. BTW...Where are you from Howard? Wayne. > > From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 14:41:14 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrvYf-0000kMa; Thu, 23 Mar 95 14:40 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 14:40:57 -0800 Message-ID: <199503232240.AA00378@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This is Howard... Wayne and all the other ears, I also listen in on a email list for prints and very rarely comment. I recently commented on the preservation of plates and for what reason I am still not sure of, my observation went into computer limbo...what a list limbo must have. I live in Waldport, Oregon, a moderate size town (1700) people. Waldport is about center on the coast. It is 3.5 hours to Portland, bullseye and Uroborus glass. When I am not doing glass, all phases including teaching, I volunteer at an aquarium, watch whales, monitor invertabrate counts for ODFW, and try to dodge anything gainful that I have to commit to. My son is a tech rep for PC KWIK in Beaverton, and sometimes visits to tune up and tweak the computer. My skills do not include much confidence at the keyboard...but I am learning. It is a long entrance ramp to the super highway. As to my age, I will accept all guesses. My wife, who with her income, has enabled me to get my business to where it pays its way, with something left over. Many tax advantages to be in a business that is home operated and requires travel to open accounts and buy product. I lived back east, N.J. for most of my life, this should not give away any elapsed time. Well for now, time to take a break and build a lamp. enjoy From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 15:18:31 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrw8v-0000J5a; Thu, 23 Mar 95 15:18 PST X-Path: mail.prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: No longer about filigree! Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 18:09:01 EST Message-ID: <013.04758575.MPGP79B@prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Hi Howard- I enjoyed your description of your start and your comment about considering your creations your children: I know just what you mean. A few years ago, I made a teddy bear for a small friend. To my surprise, several people wanted me to make more for sale. I did, and I felt just like you did about selling that first lamp... I've never sold a teddy bear for over $8,000 though! I'll bet that your lamps are just gorgeous and treasured by those who own them. Do you sign them in any way? My poppy lamp is going to hang from the ceiling (over a table), so I don't have to face the lampstand issue this time. I used the Odyssey wheel hardware (possibly overkill for the size of the shade). The ceiling fixture is controlled by a dimmer, and I had planned to try a 60 watt globe, since I thought the bulb might be visible when sitting at the table. Is there a better way? Thanks again! Peggy From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 15:54:11 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrwhK-0000Ola; Thu, 23 Mar 95 15:53 PST X-Path: crl.com!madhouse From: "A. Fondren" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Unsubscribe to Stain Glass Mailing list Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:55:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <<199503210052.AA27345@ednet1.osl.or.gov>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello. I am currently a subscriber of the Stain Glass mailing list. I am about to switch providers, so I need to unscribe. I will subscribe again when I am at my new email address. Thank you for all the interesting mail. Angela Fondren madhouse@crl.com From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 16:07:03 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrwtF-0000kXa; Thu, 23 Mar 95 16:06 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: No longer about filigree! Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:06:20 -0800 Message-ID: <199503240006.AA24434@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Once again, Howard Peggy, A good habit to start is to sign all your work...a vibrating pen, one used for signing valuables works, look for one with a carbide point. All my works are signed and numbered and I have extensive records of the Tiffanys with replacement glass set aside for repairs. My panel lamps are production ones and my nubers and index card file allows me to duplicate them. I have stayed with Spectrum for those so as not to have problems in getting the same glass. When ever possible, I also ask for the name and address of the purchaser and enter that in my card file. As for your hanging your lamp... If it is at all possible, hang it at eye level. The table should keep people from bumping into it. It will show much better at eye level. If you have the ability, set it up with a multiple bulb. I do not like the globe diffusers, and you can beat that by buying a decorator bulb (oversize). A bit of trivia to astound and amaze your friends... The diameter of bulbs is stated in 1/8" units, a house hold bulb is an A-19 which translates to a diameter of 2and3/8s. Look for a G30 for the shade, and put the fixtureas close to the top as possible if you are doing one large bulb. Also leave extra chain and or cord so as to have the option to lower it even more than when you first install it. AS for the Odyssey hardware quality is always good...a thought, it is hard to sell a mink coat with a burlap lining. Enough for now, enjoy From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 16:12:54 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrwzH-0000kWa; Thu, 23 Mar 95 16:12 PST X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:12:02 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: Solder" on Mar 23, 14:40, Elaine Lea Rubin writes:] > > This is Howard... > income, has enabled me to get my business to where it pays its way, > with something left over. Many tax advantages to be in a business > that is home operated and requires travel to open accounts and buy > product. > I lived back east, N.J. for most of my life, this should not give away > any elapsed time. Lets see,.....54 yrs.????? -- From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 16:42:07 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rrxRg-0000OSa; Thu, 23 Mar 95 16:41 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:42:00 -0800 Message-ID: <199503240042.AA06769@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk you peaked, or have a good memory. enjoy From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 17:45:03 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rryQS-00001ta; Thu, 23 Mar 95 17:44 PST X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!chaseway From: wayne chase To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Summary: NB*net - New Brunswick's Regional Network 1-800-561-4459 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:41:12 AST Message-ID: <9523214112.6020> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Mar 1995 14:40:57 -0800, erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov writes: Hi Howard, Thanks for the bio....real nice to hear who (up untill a bio) who is behind the words on the monitor. I am from the east side of the country. Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada, which is about 12 hours from N.J.and I cannot begin to fathom how far from Oregon. I have been dabbling in glass for about 10 years, but I must confess...not much more than a hobby level. I am going to make a few mini lamps for my wife's booth at a craft fair this summer. She is mainly into dried, and freeze dried flowers. My main occupation is photography. I have my own studio and do nearly all types of photography from portrait to commercial. We have five kids who are all grown up. through school/college, and so it is just Joan and myself now, and our Old English Sheep dog "Bebo". Anyway, the main reason I am writing is to inquire about one of my main problems which is having the ocassional piece of glass comming a little loose on my lamps. Especially in the bottom pieces. I just did a Shasta Daisey style, and the bottom points (like the petals of a daisey) seem to have the soldered foil comming loose. Any suggestions?? Thanks, Wayne From owner-glass Thu Mar 23 22:10:31 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rs2Xg-0000R6a; Thu, 23 Mar 95 22:08 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 20:31:23 -0800 Message-ID: <199503240431.AA20762@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The wordy Howard, again... Hello Wayne, nice to get a bit about who else is writing. A suggestion for the pieces on the lower edge (bottom), make sure the foil joint is not on a exposed edge. The glass should be clean and ground and dry before foiling. I still prefer Venture new improved adhesive, and maybe you should use 1.5 mil for the exposed edges. Burnish well, and use care when cleaning, patinaing(strange word), and handling. If the bottom is at risk, such as the 22" hanging head dragonfly, ashort lenght of copper wire can be soldered on the inside to reinforce the exposed piece. I have not yet figured out how to edit my copy in this program, and some times the keys are not where my fingers are striking, and once I hit return, that is all he, she or it wrote Years ago we messed with black and white photography, and had a dark room. We certainly were no threat to professionals, but enjoyed the processes. Judging from some of the work at the galleries around here, any photography with identifiable landmarks are fair game for the tourists to purchase. Enough of this... enjoy From owner-glass Fri Mar 24 04:04:01 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rs85X-0000QZa; Fri, 24 Mar 95 04:03 PST X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!chaseway From: wayne chase To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Solder Summary: NB*net - New Brunswick's Regional Network 1-800-561-4459 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:00:05 AST Message-ID: <9524080005.228F> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Mar 1995 20:31:23 -0800, erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov writes: Hi Howard, Thanks for the pointers. I will give all the suggestions a try. Wayne :-) From owner-glass Fri Mar 24 04:58:24 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rs8wC-0000Ida; Fri, 24 Mar 95 04:58 PST To: rglass-1 X-Path: sysm.acs.virginia.edu!UD59 From: LAUREL HALL Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri Mar 24 04:57:46 1995 Message-ID: <1995Mar25.22946.0@sysm.acs.virginia.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk SENDER OF MESSAGE: This is Howard... Wayne and all the other ears, I also listen in on a email list for prints and very rarely comment. I recently commented on the preservation of plates and for what reason I am still not sure of, my observation went into computer limbo...what a list limbo must have. I live in Waldport, Oregon, a moderate size town (1700) people. Waldport is about center on the coast. It is 3.5 hours to Portland, bullseye and Uroborus glass. When I am not doing glass, all phases including teaching, I volunteer at an aquarium, watch whales, monitor invertabrate counts for ODFW, and try to dodge anything gainful that I have to commit to. My son is a tech rep for PC KWIK in Beaverton, and sometimes visits to tune up and tweak the computer. My skills do not include much confidence at the keyboard...but I am learning. It is a long entrance ramp to the super highway. As to my age, I will accept all guesses. My wife, who with her income, has enabled me to get my business to where it pays its way, with something left over. Many tax advantages to be in a business that is home operated and requires travel to open accounts and buy product. I lived back east, N.J. for most of my life, this should not give away any elapsed time. Well for now, time to take a break and build a lamp. enjoy *** Comments from UD59 - HALL, LAUREL; 03/24/95 07:43: Hi, Harold. This is Laurie, from Charlottesville, VA. I also appreciate the helpful advice you've been passing along. I "got into" stained glass about 3 years ago in order to learn patience. (Don't ask me why, it's a long story), and it did help. I haven't made anything for sale, just give it away to family and friends I know appreciate the time and effort that goes into my "creations". I especially like making lamps. There's something about pulling that chain or turning that switch and seeing the light come on that I never tire of. Thanks again for your excellent comments! LAUREL HALL UD59@sysm.acs.Virginia.EDU From owner-glass Fri Mar 24 10:08:22 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rsDll-00004Ka; Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:07 PST X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:07:20 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Gatewayed mail message" on Mar 24, 4:57, LAUREL HALL writes:] > SENDER OF MESSAGE: > > Hi, Harold. This is Laurie, from Charlottesville, VA. I also > appreciate the helpful advice you've been passing along. I "got I think you mean Howard.... -- From owner-glass Fri Mar 24 13:51:35 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rsHFq-0000YJa; Fri, 24 Mar 95 13:50 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:51:08 -0800 Message-ID: <199503242151.AA06237@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk as for Harold, I have been called worse... enjoy From owner-glass Fri Mar 24 17:14:28 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rsKQR-0000aJa; Fri, 24 Mar 95 17:13 PST X-Path: aol.com!LBettin From: LBettin@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: More on Molding Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:29:57 -0500 Message-ID: <950324162957_60096059@aol.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard, guess my question on the molding had to do with the safety of the glass during the process of attaching the molding. I'm assuming the molding gets attached with small finishing nails, but if you have any tips so I don't damage the glass in the process, they would be appreciated. Or is it simply -- go slow and be careful? Thanks in advance. Laura From owner-glass Fri Mar 24 17:58:55 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rsL6q-0000h8a; Fri, 24 Mar 95 17:57 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: More on Molding Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:57:43 -0800 Message-ID: <199503250157.AA27160@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard, here... Laura, If you are going to use the molding for esthetic reasons, and intend to tape the window, either with or without glaziers pins, an idea for the molding would be to use a hot glue gun to install them...use as long a drying time as available in the glue sticks. If you must nail them, pre-drill holes for the brads first, another possibility would be small brass screws, and again pre-drill. So many choices...I do very few installations of that nature, so if any one has any other tips, go for it! enjoy From owner-glass Sat Mar 25 21:07:33 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rskX8-00002Oa; Sat, 25 Mar 95 21:06 PST X-Path: aol.com!JCWALE From: JCWALE@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: 50/50 vs 60/40 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 00:06:09 -0500 Message-ID: <950326000609_61346142@aol.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I think you will find that 50/50 solder will take more heat to melt than 60/40. In electronics, 50/50 solder requires too much heat, and would destroy componets. 50/50 solder is stronger when cooled, that is the reason it is often used in copper pipes, 60/40 does not hold up well. Another difference is called the 'plastic state'. This is the temp range (during cooling) that the solder is not liquid and not yet solid. If you hold the parts rigid, you may have never noticed this state. The 50/50 solder has a wider temp range (therefore more time) in this state than the 60/40 does. Have fun. From owner-glass Mon Mar 27 08:16:34 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rtHRr-0000KKa; Mon, 27 Mar 95 08:15 PST X-Path: herbie.unl.edu!tnelson From: tnelson@herbie.unl.edu (TARA NELSON) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Delete Subscription Please Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 10:15:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <9503271615.AA23610@herbie.unl.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am currently changing computer systems and I need to unscribe to this newsgroup. I will subscribe again when I receive my new address. Thanks for all the great information. My current email address is tnelson@herbie.unl.edu From owner-glass Wed Mar 29 20:33:02 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ruBt0-0000Yga; Wed, 29 Mar 95 20:31 PST X-Path: Camosun.BC.CA!COOPERD From: cooperd@Camosun.BC.CA To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Subject: SUN CATCHERS Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 20:30:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1995Mar29.123041.0@Camosun.BC.CA> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, everyone sure is interesting a fun being on this mailing list, I have been doing stained glass for about 5 years of course working and hobbying don't go together, I love doing stain glass work and frustrated because of the time involved to perfect this hobby anyway can anyone tell me why my suncatches which I have been doing in foil seem to come unstuck after about oh, a year in the window. I hate to fix glass things but have no choice, does anyone else have this problem. Donna! From owner-glass Wed Mar 29 22:58:13 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ruEBA-0000M9a; Wed, 29 Mar 95 22:58 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: SUN CATCHERS Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 22:58:33 -0800 Message-ID: <199503300658.AA22024@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard here... Perhaps gravity is the problem, and where you are placing the hanging loop (s) I do no suncatchers, and would need more info on how you are supporting them, foil thickness, and where they are pulling away from the adjoining glass. Enjoy From owner-glass Thu Mar 30 05:42:14 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ruKTq-0000RTa; Thu, 30 Mar 95 05:41 PST X-Path: YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu!UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: Dorothy Kalahan To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: SUN CATCHERS Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 08:33:34 EST Message-ID: <950330.084204.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1995Mar29.123041.0@Camosun.BC.CA>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Donna, Do you clean your glass completely before you foil it? For example, if you grind and let dry, the edges of your glass will be covered with grit and the foil will not adhere properly. Clean and dry completely. Then burnish. I also find that the commercial patterns for many suncatchers are not particularly good. Any place where there is a straight or slightly curved line that goes right through a piece is a place where the piece can bend like a hinge...I see alot of that in suncatcher patterns. And don't put your hanging loop directly on the outer foil edge. Put it in a place where two pieces join. (In fact, one of the fun things about designing a piece is figuring out how to put on a hanging loop that looks natural yet allows the piece to hang straight!) Dorothy hcladm02@uconnvm.uconn.edu From owner-glass Thu Mar 30 07:04:22 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ruLlW-0000HJa; Thu, 30 Mar 95 07:04 PST X-Path: phast.umass.edu!jwittlin From: JODI WITTLIN To: glass@bungi.com Subject: unsubscribing... Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 10:03:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1995Mar30.536.0@phast.umass.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk i hate doing this on a list, but could someone email me the unsubscribing information? i can not seem to find the correct address to send my request to. thanks, jodi wittlin ***************************************************************************** Jodi L. Wittlin jwittlin@phast.umass.edu Dept. of Physics and Astronomy UMass, Amherst The opinions expressed in this post are not necessarily those of UMass or the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. ***************************************************************************** From owner-glass Thu Mar 30 07:05:13 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ruLmJ-0000dga; Thu, 30 Mar 95 07:04 PST X-Path: mail.prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com, cooperd@Camosun.BC.CA Subject: Re: SUN CATCHERS Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:14:52 EST Message-ID: <013.04970001.MPGP79B@prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Donna - I will email this to you separately as well as to the list, because I want to try to "draw" a representation of what I'm describing by using x's. I'm not sure if it will work when translated across a variety of programs. Please let me know if it isn't effective and I won't do it again! I had a friend who tried making a suncatcher from a kit, and the same thing happened after it was up for a while. I asked about it when I was taking a class, and got what seems like good advice. Perhaps it will help you. First, be sure that the foil is well burnished to the glass. Next, when attaching a ring, DON'T just solder it to the top edge of the piece along the horizontal edge. As Howard pointed out, gravity works against you, causing the full weight of the glass to hang from that one point, stretching the foil away from the piece. Finally, many people are taught to make rings by wrapping wire several times around a pencil or similar round rod, then cutting along the coil. This creates several rings, each a plain circle with a small gap in it. The ring is then soldered to a seam on the piece after other soldering is complete. Instead of doing that, you can create a ring with 2 small "legs" where the gap is. Wrap the wire around the rod just once and leave approx. 1/4 inch straight wire tails ("legs") on both sides of the circle when you cut: ("Drawing" follows. It should look something like the outline of a lightbulb, with the bulb part representing the ring and the neck part representing the "legs". ) xxx x x x x x x x x x x x x This ring is attached BEFORE you finish soldering the seams. The "legs" are inserted BETWEEN the foiled edges of 2 glass pieces on a VERTICAL seam and soldered into the seam. The ring sticks out at the top of the seam. If it is a larger piece, you may need to use 2 rings, one near each edge. If you are working with a single, curved top piece (like a balloon), cutting the "legs" of the ring longer and bending them (one to the right, one to the left) will let you solder the ring to the top edge with the "legs" curving along the foil on either side, also covered in solder. This will distribute the weight so it doesn't pull on one single spot, but I wouldn't try it with anything more than a small suncatcher. It is also possible to solder the ring in a seam lower down in the piece, catching the "legs" in a vertical seam, and bending the ring slightly away from the glass surface. If you do this, check out how it will balance when hung. If you go too far down (say more than about 1/8-1/4 of the height of the piece), it starts to tip forward. I hadn't intended to write a novel -- I now fully understand why a picture is worth a thousand words! I do hope this makes sense and is helpful. If it's totally confusing, please let me know and I'll try again! Peggy From owner-glass Thu Mar 30 09:27:24 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ruNzv-0000FDa; Thu, 30 Mar 95 09:27 PST X-Path: Augustana.edu!SWSEAHOLM From: "Jill Seaholm" To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Subject: Suncatcher loops Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:25:16 CST Message-ID: <1995Mar30.172516.0@Augustana.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Augustana College - Rock Island IL Precedence: bulk That was pretty clever about the lightbulb-shaped loops and soldering them on before finishing the piece. I'm one of the old wrap-the-wire- around-the-pen people and have always dreaded trying to solder the loops on at the end of the project. If only it worked for lead, too. I think your way would make it easier when soldering the wire around the perimeter at the finish, since I wouldn't have to mess-up that solder job I'd worked so hard to make perfect by sticking a loop in it afterward. Confusing? Sorry. We've found that no matter how much solder one builds up on the outside edge of a foiled project, it still comes down to that little piece of tape holding the whole project together, and it's mighty important to imbed one continuous piece of wire (or bead/ball chain for decoration) around the perimeter of the foiled suncatcher, no matter how tiny. Anyway, I should de-lurk and introduce myself. I have worked for the past 5 1/2 years at a local stained glass shop/studio: Landin's Lamps Stained Glass, Moline, Illinois (please note that the name is not Aladdin's and has nothing to do with it). I was full time for the first three years, then got a real job (sorry) and now just work there on Saturdays to help out. We run (I've heard) the biggest supply store between Chicago and St. Louis. We also do a lot of custom work. I have mostly worked in the retail supplies sales end, but have done my share of building windows, lamps, and suncatchers, using lead and foil. In my spare time, whenever I'm not filling orders from friends, my fill-in project is now an 18" Odyssey Peacock shade, done in lots of dark purples. Some of you sound a lot more experienced than I, so I doubt I'll have much advice to offer, but it's fun to listen anyway. Maybe I know of some helpful products that some of you don't. Maybe not. Back to lurking. Jill Seaholm From owner-glass Thu Mar 30 11:41:27 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ruQ5c-0000fBa; Thu, 30 Mar 95 11:41 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Loopy Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:41:25 -0800 Message-ID: <199503301941.AA29808@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard here... The info about suncatchers and hanging is fine in my opinion. An easy way to come up with loops is to cut the "U" sections out of paper clips, and like most of the instructions, solder them into a seam or joint of two or more pieces. I will offer tips on doing the 16 Odyssey Peacock to Jill if she has any desire to ask. It caneither go personal or to the list. I prefer to use a lead came "u" strip for the bottom edge, rather than a brass ring. If you are interested ask... as there are some decisions to make prior to commitment. enjoy From owner-glass Thu Mar 30 11:51:49 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ruQFp-0000O9a; Thu, 30 Mar 95 11:51 PST X-Path: Camosun.BC.CA!COOPERD From: cooperd@Camosun.BC.CA To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Subject: THANKS TO ALL!!! Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:51:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1995Mar30.35110.0@Camosun.BC.CA> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just wanted to thank you all for your great advice, this is much better than any of the classes I have taken. Keep up the good work. Donna!!! From owner-glass Thu Mar 30 13:57:26 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ruSD9-0000ZOa; Thu, 30 Mar 95 13:57 PST X-Path: primenet.com!burtman From: burtman@PrimeNet.Com (Burt Eastburn) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: First Lamp Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:56:50 -0700 Message-ID: <199503302156.OAA20891@mailhost.primenet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello fellow Internet Stained Glass People.. ;) This is Mrs. Burtman or should I say Significant Other Burtman. My name is Lorley and I have been doing mostly lead came stained glass window panels for the past 2 1/2 years. I am doing my first (and maybe my last) stained glass lamp. My pattern is the cover lamp on the book titiled "Elegant Lamps". I love working w/ bevels and when I saw that lamp I knew it just had to be my first lamp. So I have all the pieces soldered and am ready to assemble the lamp. My first question is that when I was soldering some of the upper panels of the lamp a couple of the side pieces did not solder completely flat. I mean, they seem to have bent a little. A friend of mine said to heat up the solder and try to bend it back to being perfectly flat again. How do I do that?? It's soldered on both sides so do I heat up one side before the next? Which side? I don't want to bend the piece too much and risk the foil coming loose. The piece is approx 7 inches long. Now once I have all my pieces flat and ready to go I will refer to Howards advice earlier about assembling the lamp. I figure if I just take this a step at a time I might be able to finish w/ excellent results and the feeling that I may want to do another one. My stained glass supplier that I have relied on for tips and tricks has just gone out of business in Mesa AZ so I may be depending on you folks out there for more and more advice. Only trouble is , like Peggy noted before, a picture is worth a thousand words so I have to read and then re-read the advice to make sure I understand how something is done. I am a perfectionist (to an extent) and I want to make sure that I really know what I am doing before I tackle a section of the lamp. Thanks to all of you for your previous words of wisdom. I too have been a reader and not a participant until this time. I have just finished with a stint on a graveyard shift and found I just didn't have the time or energy to do much stained glass work. Now I am on a day shift, my first shift working 4 10 hour days and since I have 3 days off a week I am able to make much more progress than in the months before. I work for the City of Mesa Police Dept as a 911 Operator and find working with stained glass is perfect for relaxing the mind. Bye to all for now. Lorley from Phoenix Az From owner-glass Thu Mar 30 16:06:13 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ruUDb-0000Z9a; Thu, 30 Mar 95 16:05 PST X-Path: mail.prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Loopy Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 18:50:14 EST Message-ID: <013.04985482.MPGP79B@prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Howard, my vote is that you post your advice about the peacock lamp to all of us. I always find your comments extremely helpful, and the techniques you describe can usually be applied to a variety of projects. Thanks! Peggy From owner-glass Thu Mar 30 16:47:39 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ruUru-0000aIa; Thu, 30 Mar 95 16:47 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Loopy Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 16:47:39 -0800 Message-ID: <199503310047.AA26739@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard here... I have twice written screens full of words and both times could not send it as the e-mail handler went nuts, so I will probaly use a word processing program and then send it to the modem. I will also be able to edit it much better than this program does. Enough computer stuff. Yeah, I will burden the list with my observations and suggestions. You asked for it enjoy From owner-glass Thu Mar 30 17:43:22 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ruVhm-0000O1a; Thu, 30 Mar 95 17:40 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: First Lamp Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 17:41:12 -0800 Message-ID: <199503310141.AA10371@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard, once again... I am using a word processing program (PFS) to talk to you. Lorley, I suggest that you do not try to move the pieces if they are only a little off flat. You must assemble the upper section of the shade first, a nice and simple trick is to lay the panels out like a fan, insert nickles between the panel... one at the top one at the bottom, about 1/2'' inch in from the edge. Pull off about 6 inches of MASKING TAPE, allow the tape to cover more than one panel. Repeat this till all panels are taped together. Leave a 4 to 6 inch overlap so as to be able to tape the lamp together as a unit. NOTE no tack soldering necessary yet. Put lamp right side up, level your work space and table, attach cap keeping it level. Turn lamp over and tack solder the inside, taking care not to get solder past the lower edge this is where the next set of panels will attach. After all 8 lower panels are built, Put them face down and tape three together without spacers(nickels) Lightly solder them to the upper section, centering them if they do not fit tightly, repeat again. You should have 2 sections left over to make any adjustments necessary. When you turned the upper part over, a cottage cheese container (low-fat) makes a good holder for the lamp. waiting to hear how it is going...Enjoy Any comments on the format may be welcome From owner-glass Fri Mar 31 08:08:37 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rujEy-0000DCa; Fri, 31 Mar 95 08:08 PST X-Path: Augustana.edu!SWSEAHOLM From: "Jill Seaholm" To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Subject: A peacock conversation with Howard Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:06:31 CST Message-ID: <1995Mar31.16631.0@Augustana.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Augustana College - Rock Island IL Precedence: bulk *I know you all might find this boring, so it's not too late to tell *me to talk about this directly with Howard. This seems much like a *party line. Plus, I don't think I'm as far along as he thinks. *Here goes. Dear Jill, I will need to know a few things before "we can proceed " How far have you gotten on the form? *I've done nothing with the form. We have an Odyssey rental program *and I'm waiting until everything's cut out, grinded, and foiled *before doing anything to the form. Though no one's renting it right *now and I do have access to it every Saturday, I don't dare do *anything to it (short of holding a cut piece up to it to compare). What glass are you using...company, predominate color, density? * Using a photograph of a peacock shade whose colors I liked most *(the one from the pre-packaged set of Tiffany repro. postcards), the *colors that best matched it by chance all turned out to be Kokomo. *No specialty lamp glass for me! All are pretty much standard 1/8" *thickness. If you know your numbers, the upper background is/are two *DARK purples, numbers 64 and 266, and the lower background (around *the feathers) is some 106N, a red-green opal, using the very green *parts for the "beards" of the feathers, the less green parts for the *background, and the really fiery red for some of the trim around the *lower borders. The lower borders and the lower claw-look trim, 49 *kokomo. The only colors that won't let much light through will be *the purples, but that's how I want it. How long do you anticipate to finish (will determine kind of flux)? *Months. As I mentioned earlier, this is a filler project. I'm *probably going to have to stop shortly and build a couple of small *lampshades promised to a friend for her wedding present (2 years ago- -*she only picked out the colors last week...not my fault). As soon *as I get the form, I'll probably go full-force on the soldering. *But I anticipate that that will be months down the line, since I *work 6 days/week. As for fitting, cut a few pattern pieces on window glass, see how they fit, and adjust for your cutting technique...If you cut big, cut the mylar pattern small and leave the trace line on. If they are short, cut outside of your line. *I cut equally mixed--big and small, and usually adjust at the *grinding wheel. As for a light box.. a couple blocks of wood with a piece of plate glass over them, and a small lamp under will make a light table, or use a few large books for height. *If necessary, I can use the one at work. I'll figure something out. I very strongly recommend a Worden Lamp form holder to enable you to tip the lamp and work easily on it... I can sell you that type of hardware at a discount as anything that goes to the "net" as far as I am concerned is extra sales above and beyond my regular business. *I don't know if I want to do that, especially if this (probably) is *my only form-shade endeavor. enjoy...Howard *Thanks...Jill *Now I must get some work done. From owner-glass Fri Mar 31 13:00:02 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0runmx-0000JTa; Fri, 31 Mar 95 12:59 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: A peacock conversation with Howard Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 12:59:45 -0800 Message-ID: <199503312059.AA16506@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Jill, and all of the list(eners) This is Howard...big surprise My strong advice is NOT to cut, grind and foil before you have the form in your posession. When you fit the pieces on a table (flat) they will not fit the same as on the form. If you can, rent it on an unlimited time frame...Irent to y students at full retail, and refund one half when I get the form back intact. To Start... I tack the ring on to the form using a generous amount of wax to hold it in place. I then tacky wax ONLY the top row in place, as once you have completed the ring of glass, it cannot slip down the form. USE a oil base paste flux, as it will not oxidize over a long period of time(use sparingly). Clarification...Tack the brass ring to the form before starting the glass row. You may cut all the pieces out first and match the repeats of the pattern before placing on form. Many of the iginal Tiffany used Kokomo as it is a very old Americanglass co. I do not use Kokomo, as I do not have a deep source for it...I am "stuck with Bullseye and Uroborus, and a couple of crats of Yogo". Perhaps you can suggest to the shop that they get a lampholder, and rent it as well as use it for a "demo" for the shop... Touching a product helps sell it. Let me know if anything sounds weird or if you are unsure of my instructios. enjoy From owner-glass Fri Mar 31 17:08:23 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rurel-0000Lwa; Fri, 31 Mar 95 17:07 PST X-Path: mail.prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: A peacock conversation with Howard Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 19:54:05 EST Message-ID: <013.05022315.MPGP79B@prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Jill, the risk of a party line is that the neighbors sometimes horn in on the conversation, which is what I'm about to do :-> ! I have to second Howard's suggestion about the lamp form positioner. I speak from my very un-vast experience of being on the verge of finishing my first dome lamp on a Worden form. I did most of it by the balancing act method: finding the right size cardboard box and then trying to get the thing to stay at the desired angle while I soldered. In spite of that, I found I really like making dome lamps, and invested in the positioner. What a difference!!! If you can beg or borrow one, do it. It's well worth it. By the way, Howard, your instructions for the tucked bottom row worked like a dream. I shudder to think what I would have created without them... Thanks! Peggy From owner-glass Fri Mar 31 17:54:32 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rusNk-0000e3a; Fri, 31 Mar 95 17:53 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: A peacock conversation with Howard Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 17:54:14 -0800 Message-ID: <199504010154.AA10926@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard here Peggy, thanks for the reply, it is good that someone else other than my students, who have me in person, is able to follow directions without my being there to monitor them. At the risk of being cynical(it is real hard to disapoint a cynic) in many cases the directions in making a lamp, either panel or dome are written by the seller of the book, rather than a production lamp maker. In some cases the art work is the only thing done, as a lamp was never made from the pattern. All of my production lamps are cut from 24"x24" Spectrum glass with the only scrap being the first and last angle of the panel. Many of my lamps are figured to make three from two strips. No margin for error or breakage...Enough. Having the right equipment makes the whole project easier and generally produces better work. Peggy, do you have a next project in mind. enjoy From owner-glass Sat Apr 1 10:35:36 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rv80h-000022a; Sat, 1 Apr 95 10:34 PST X-Path: mail.prodigy.com!MPGP79B From: MPGP79B@prodigy.com (PEGGY M PALM) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: A peacock conversation with Howard/digression Date: Sat, 01 Apr 1995 12:35:01 EST Message-ID: <013.05039896.MPGP79B@prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Peggy Palm * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Hi Howard- You must truly be a master at cutting, to say nothing of design. At the moment, I wouldn't dare to attempt anything that requires no waste margin! I did manage to make my very first project (a small panel) mostly from a 1/4 sheet of art glass that happened to have all the right color combinations in it. One piece, part of a mountain, was unique. It had a white "snow cap" on deep purple. I have to admit that I probably used most of a grinder head shaping the piece because of my fear of cutting it too small or breaking it. I've gotten over that approach now, but still allow for lots of errors! Regarding my next project: It's more a case of which of many temptations! Being unable to resist a bargain, I bought the CF18 Worden form and the dogwood pattern on sale. Don't have glass for it yet, but am thinking of blue background, creamy white/pink blossoms and shades of green for leaves. I have a 53" floor lamp stand that is intended to take a glass shade, and has 3 reg. light bulbs attached to the upper part of the pole. The bulbs point downward and have individual pull chains. Of course, I also need a desk lamp, and bought the lily pad lampstand that has a long curving neck and a small cone-shaped lampshade at the end. I did a waterlily design for it, and even have the glass I need. You may laugh, but the stand didn't come with any instructions for the shade, so I made cones out of paper until I found a size and shape that looked well balanced. Then I cut the shape out of mylar and taped it together. The hardware store sold me a can of foam insulation that cures hard. I filled my mylar cone with this and let it cure, then removed the mylar to make a form to work on. I have to admit I'm curious to see how this turns out, so it's probably the next project. I don't know if there are any tricks to attaching the ring for this type of shade. It is held on by 3 small screws spaced evenly around the edge of the lampshade holder, similar to the way a Christmas tree trunk is held in a stand. My other question: is there an easier way to make a form? I suppose I could have made it as a conical panel lamp, but that didn't work well with the design I had in mind... I've also been wanting to do a mirror, but as you say, ENOUGH. First the lilypad, then the next decision. :-} Peggy From owner-glass Sat Apr 1 14:51:17 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rvC0L-0000Naa; Sat, 1 Apr 95 14:50 PST X-Path: Wittenberg.EDU!cutler From: cutler@Wittenberg.EDU To: glass@bungi.com Subject: the ideal production shop Date: Sat, 01 Apr 1995 17:50:41 EST Message-ID: <1995Apr1.225041.0@Wittenberg.EDU> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Howard. I have been reading your helpful advice to Peggy and others. Your suggestions certainly make a lot of sense, and I will try them as I get into more lampmaking. I spent the afternoon hanging my newly finished 20" dia Worden Rose border lamp. I paid very close attention, as per your suggestion, to keeping each section inside the guide barriers on the sides of the form. That really paid off! All six sections went together without a hitch as a result. Actual working time was about 35 hours (though I don't think I kept track very well at the beginning :)) I made my own positioner, by the way. Not as versatile as the commercial product probably, but it did do the job. Now, Howard, my reason for writing. What do you consider essential equipment for the kind of operation you run? Do you use a mechanical foiler, or one of the hand-held sort? Do you use a band saw? Would you recommned one if you do? There are lots of gadgets for sale out there, and I like gadgets, so I am always tempted. But what is essential, and what is just nice to have? Thanks again. It's nice to be able tohear from a real expert BobCutler From owner-glass Sat Apr 1 17:22:04 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rvEMN-0000Mza; Sat, 1 Apr 95 17:21 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: A peacock conversation with Howard/digression Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 17:22:08 -0800 Message-ID: <199504020122.AA01913@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk howard...with volumes of info Peggy, The industry name for that style of base is a gooseneck. After you have gonr through the trouble of making a form, I will tell you that it is not necessary. The foam cone you made does not have a curve around it does it? There is a specific fitter that must be used that will be soldered to the shade, and will slide into the round part of the collar on the lamp. The therr screws hold the fitter which is soldered to the shade in place. INSTRUCTIONS... for designing and figuring the conical shade for a gooseneck using the standard fitter... First decision-How tall... I recommend 6 to 7 inches Second Decision- How many panels...I recommend no fewer than 6, more panels more labor, more pieces, and more rounder in appearance. 8 octagon, 10 decagon, 12 a twelveagon, etc. Critical-top diameter outside must fit in the fitter. Lower diameter around 8inches. Here comes math(uh oh)...The inside diameter of the fitter is 1 7/8 inches, so decide on the amount panels, multiply 1.875 times Pi (3.14) and divide the total by the amount of panels you chose. The only accuracy you need is to then subtract 1/8" (.125) to allow for the thickness of the glass. the bottom is not as critical as it does not have to "fit". To check your math for the fitter, 6 panels- 15/16 8 panels- 11/16 To design your own pattern, Draw a straight line down the center or a sheet of paper 11x8.5 ( who knows that the first measurement goes across the top) standard letterhead sideways. Use the above calculations to determine the size, center the number you have gotten on the verticle line, both top and bottom calculations, and if I am clear and you are lucky, a trapezoid will be formed. This trapezoid will be the pattern for your lamp. If you want to "soften" the straight lines of the panels, design a bridging piece to go between the panels after the shade is built. Keep it small or it will stick up, as it is in a different plane than the big panel. Clarifications: lined note book paper, draw length of lines centered on top and bottom of verticle line to form trapezoid. Hpoefully enough for now... Bob Cutler your time is coming! Enjoy? From owner-glass Sat Apr 1 18:50:51 1995 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rvFkK-0000CYa; Sat, 1 Apr 95 18:50 PST X-Path: ednet1.osl.or.gov!erubin From: erubin@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Elaine Lea Rubin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: the ideal production shop Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 18:51:04 -0800 Message-ID: <199504020251.AA24153@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard again with more dialog. Bob, this one's for you. A quick walk-through of my shop, I have a large cutting table that is very adjustable to allow trimming and accurate cutting of strips, large 26x48 light table for full sheets, and pre-assembly of dome lamps for color and phasing, a small cutting table, also a light box, overhead receptacles for power, and a home-made exhaust system, 6 spectrum 1/2 sheet cases for storage with solid core doors for a work surface nailed to the cases, sink for water many shelves for lamp bases, an old library card file, many drawers for sundry storage, hundreds of sq ft glass leaning wherever there is a verticle open wall, and just about every surface covered with anything you can imagine (glass related). I thrive on clutter and chaos. AS for stuff, both size Morton Glass Shops and fixtures, if you do any straight line cutting at all, a wide toyo cutter as well as a free hand cutter(the standard one), again I use a 1,000 Ungar, with a rheostat. Because I do mainly lamps, a jig saw would not be the tool for me, if you want reasons, ask. Foil holder is a nice item, and I foil all my pieces by hand, I tried a table foiler and did not like it. I see no advantage to a hand held foiler. A glass snapper is good for straight line running, but not curves. I use a combination grozier and breaker with as narrow a jaw as I can find and Ialso ground one down to about 1/8 wide. My shop contains no band-aids as they are a concession that you will cut yourself. I have no retail to the door trade , as I live in a residential area and cannot advertise or run a business. I do sell to my students by appointment and work out of my shop. I generally do not take small commissions,but advise purchasers of production lamps to purchase them at local outlets. Large commissions I welcome, and even meet them in Portland to hand pick glass, most people enjoy getting into the project with me, especially when large $ are at stake. I have an extensive amount of odd- ball lamp related stuff as well as a collection of antique bases. Although am fairly good at lamps, I am not up on came work, bevels, and most assorted stuff a retail shop carries. I also do no fusing although I have had Bullseye Glass at my disposal for a week, and a friend of mine is a world glass hot glass worker. My expertise is deep but limited to lamps. I occasionally speak at local art meetings about the Tiffany Lamps (real) and the craft in general. My shop has been on the tour circuit for the art guild a few times( perhaps what a studio should not look like) I apologize for running on on the list, and if anyone wants specific info and not exposed to all, make a note to reply directly to them. I would not object to any history of anyone who would care to reply. Enjoy (if you can)